Small Town Murder - #137 - A Murder Not-So-Mystery Weekend in St. Michaels, Maryland

Episode Date: September 19, 2019

This week, in St Michaels, Maryland, a couple goes on a weekend getaway to a resort, complete with a murder mystery dinner theater show, romantic cottage, and complimentary champagne. But by the end of the weekend, there is more than one murder at the resort, and the second one definitely isn't part of the show. Could it be a careless smoking accident, leading to tragic outcome, or was it one of the most heartless murder around? Along the way, we find out that Blazing Saddles tactics can work in actual war, that you shouldn't ask too many people to kill your spouse, and that sometimes less clues equal more facts!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in St. Michael's, Maryland, a weekend away at a resort could be the cure for an ailing marriage until it turns into an actual murder mystery weekend. back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Westman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We are so excited again for another edition of Small Town Murder. I know it sounds odd

to say we're excited for murder, but you know what? We're excited for murder. Let's just say it. It happens. It's already out there. We're just going to try to have a good time

in the estuary around the sides. That's all. We'll do that. Thank you everybody for everything you've done for us this week, especially everyone

who's gotten on iTunes and given us their Apple podcast, the purple icon giving us a review. We don't know why it helps, but it really helps drive you up the charts. We're clueless as to why that is. We don't create iTunes or Apple podcasts ranking algorithms, but for some reason it helps. So if you haven't done it yet, please give us five stars.

It doesn't matter what you say. You just say you're following instructions or it doesn't matter. Honestly, it's not for our ego. We can't be fixed with words. That won't help. So it's not for our ego. We can't be fixed with words. That won't help. So it's just for business purposes. Thank you for everyone that does that. Also, head over to shut up and give me murder.com for all of your small town murder needs, all

of your merchandise, tons of stuff there, new stuff. Those tote bag things, overnight bags are really cool. Those are cool. Lots of stuff there. Also, all of your crime and sports things. If you're not listening to crime and sports things if you're not listening to crime and sports i don't know what you're doing uh if you say i'm not really into sports perfect and you're gonna love this you're because you're gonna love us making fun of

athletes so it's it's either way it's just uh somebody who shouldn't do bad things because they don't need to but they do it anyway so the thing about that too is that i am into sports i love sports yeah but i know as much about sports as somebody that doesn't know it's perfect but he does enjoy them though that's the that's the part that matters also tickets a new show has just gone on sale uh for april i think it's april 7th and 8th april 7th in both states in nashville yeah at zany's there april 7th is a small town murder live. April 8th is a crime and sports live. If you've been to that venue at one of our shows before, you know it's a small venue.

It sells out quick. So get your tickets now for that live right now. I don't know. We announced last week Milwaukee. There's a few tickets now they just released. They held 25 comps for us like we know people in Milwaukee. We don't know anybody in Milwaukee. You can just go ahead and release those and let people buy them.

So there's, I think now about 10 tickets left in Milwaukee. So go grab those. By the way, Chicago's almost sold out. So close. So get your tickets right now before that sells out. Don't wait for that one. Upcoming shows, Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta. Yes.

The end of September. Get your tickets right now. We are coming to, we're coming to the South. to the South, so we'll roll out the welcome wagon. Let's go play. Let's do this. Let's do this. And that all said, we also are going to, at the end of the show, have to thank our favorite people in the world, all of our producers.

And you can be a producer very easily by going over to patreon.com slash crimeandsports, or you can go to PayPal, use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com, and we can't tell you how appreciated. Every dime. Thank you so much for everything you guys do for us. That said, we need to do the disclaimer for new people. You never know.

People come in, they stumble in the door. What's in here? So we got to tell them. What's that in there? Oh, boy. It's a comedy podcast. That's what you're looking at right now,

or listening to, as a matter of fact. You're welcome. You're welcome. It's a comedy show uh all the facts are real we promise that the cases are real everything is real nothing's embellished for comedic effect or anything like that but it is a comedy show we're going to make jokes we make jokes about small towns we make jokes about let's say a bumbling police force lets a killer go for five years we're going to make fun of them for that for sure a murderer who does stupid things and is terrible to people, they deserve whatever they get. But what we don't do, we go out of our way to do, or not to do, is we try not to make

fun of the victims or the victims' families. That's true. Because we're assholes. What? But we're not scumbags. Yahtzee! That's the way it works right there. Yeah.

So if that sounds good to you, we are going to have such a good time. Let's have a blast. If not, if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, there is the door, the proverbial door. Use it because you're not going to like the show, probably. You're going to be offended, and then none of us are going to be happy. We don't want to hear any complaints afterwards. So if you're on board now, enjoy. Lock in.

Sit back. Yes. Clear the lungs. Yeah. And shout, shut up and give me murder let's go on a trip i would like it let's do this what do you say let's go all the way we were in new mexico last week your favorite state as we know let's go back clear across the country again all the way to maryland oh back in maryland it's been a long time since we've somehow maryland slipped through the cracks on us. I don't know how.

It's one of those things. We're going to St. Michael's, Maryland. Okay. Interesting kind of a place here. Was the last place we were there the one with the rock bridge? The concrete bridge? I don't remember. It was Elk Ridge, I know, was the name of the town.

It was the mannequin murders one. Oh. Yeah, the several different people. It was a creepy... Maybe I don't remember. It's a crazy case, that mannequin murders. It's called the mannequin murder. Yeah, it's got a nickname. So think about that.

It's pretty weird stuff. St. Michael's, it's in the eastern peninsula of Maryland. Basically, Maryland's shaped like a gun. Yeah. Like a gun pointed at the United States. Right. Like, look at it that way. That's the barrel of Maryland that way.

And then one hangs down in the middle. That would be like the trigger part. Right. And then there's the handle of it, as you would call a handle, or a panhandle, or a gunhandle. Either way, that's where this one is located. Can we start calling them all gunhandles now? Gunhandles, yeah.

I think we should. In the U.S., panhandles are now gunhandles. Everywhere else in the world, you get to keep your panhandle, but in the U.S., it's a gunhandle from now on. The gunhandle of Texas. The gunhandle of... It fits for the gunhandle of Florida? the U.S. it's a gun handle from now on. The gun handle of Texas. The gun handle of Florida? Yeah. What fits better than that?

Beautiful. So this place here, the pan handle, gun handle now, is an hour and a half to Baltimore. So it's all the way over in the east. It's about an hour and 15 minutes to Dover, Delaware, the other direction, capital of Delaware, and about an hour and 20 minutes to Elk Ridge, Maryland, which was episode 61.

My Christ. Our last Maryland, March 14th, 2018, the mannequin murders. That's the last time we were in Maryland, which is so long ago. This is in Talbot County. Zip code 21663. Area code. This is, by the way, area code 410-443-667 it's 1.25 square miles enough area codes how stop it pick one just give these people an area code stop their suffering

unbelievable you shouldn't have a different area code than the person across the street from you that's ridiculous i get it yeah i mean not not in a place like options i get it in a huge city where there's a bunch of area codes but this is is not a huge city, as we'll get to. Right. Very small. Eight million. That's the number that you can get to with the seven-digit numbers per area code. Well, they couldn't do it with this town.

What the fuck? I guarantee you there's not eight million people here. Now, motto here, they have a nice town motto, quote, historic charm, nautical adventure, romantic spaces. So they're trying to, this is a getaway type of place. This is a very much a, like a go come for the weekend. Yeah. Come fuck your wife here. Thank you.

You've been having some problems. Couple bottles of wine and we're going to solve it. Have some crabs and some pussy. Get in here. Couple bottles of wine. Nice bed and breakfast. You can hear your neighbors banging. You know how it is. You get in there. That's what they Get in here. Couple bottles of wine, nice bed and breakfast. You can hear your neighbors banging. You know how it is.

You get in there and that's what they're pitching here. Or their other motto here, quote, all of the Maryland, none of the Baltimore. It's less known,

but that's the one they tell people on the sly. Pretty solid. Listen, don't lump us here. History of this place. By the way, I goddamn love Baltimore, so don't take it out on me, damn it.

That's what they say. They're not proud. History. This town was laid out as... We never hear this, okay? Usually, it's laid out as a speculative development. This is laid out by someone who was speculating that this...

We never hear this of a town that's from a long time ago it's always those towns like you know canyon lake california where it was like the west yeah something in the west or somewhere where it's like yeah we can make a town here if i get a hose and fill this hole in the ground with a bunch of water we'll call it a lake and sell houses by it making a vacation spot it's a real estate developer taking a chance that's what i mean this happened in the 1770s a guy did that which was very not thought forethought here james braddock uh here uh he planned this town not like a grid

at that point everything was like new york city is laid out it's a it's a grid you know all the east coast cities are a grid here they laid it out in kind of like the european style around a central square and kind of that way rather than a grid it was the central square and kind of that way rather than a grid. It was the central square and kind of like old timey, like a kingdom. Right. Rose went out of like a diagonal from center. There was different. Yeah. So the town was incorporated in 1804.

It's an old town. Maryland. It's very old here. There was a church that predated the town that gave St. Michael's its name. That's why it's called St. Michael's. The guy, the Braddock guy, the speculator, he donated land for a Methodist church in the center

of St. Mary's Square there, and they finally built a brick structure for this church after the War of 1812, and then they ended up knocking it down and building another one in 1839, and it was laid on July 4thth 1839 the cornerstone and it's still there so a lot of old stuff here this is very historic so many houses are from

like pre-1940 that's awesome it's unbelievable uh the the industry back in the day in the 1700s kind of up until the war of 1812 was shipbuilding yeah that's where you know old school it's old school that's not a huge i mean they build ships now but not like this they're not pumping them out like oh john franklin needs a ship we need to build it now it's like for the navy yeah or you know people like that carnival cruise carnival yeah it's it's not the same so i know like uh naval uh ship engineer designer type people it's like one of the highest paid jobs there is. Yeah, it's some sort of nautical engineer.

It's a very in-demand, high-paying job that nobody wants to do. I could have used you in high school. Oh, I just heard that like two weeks ago. I didn't know what to do in high school. That's why I didn't even graduate from it because I had no idea. And am still dumb as shit. I literally just heard that and I was like, interesting. That's weird.

Who the hell would want to do that? That sounds like a lot of math. And then I would have moved on. I'd be terrible at that. It sounds like a terrible job. A lot of math. I'd really like to have a big house. That's the thing.

That'd be great. So, yeah, they built schooners and later they built a ship known as the Baltimore Clipper. That was what came out of there. These vessels were built to evade blockades and outrun pirates uh or foreign naval vessels at sea because you know they would hijack things and so that that's the type of time we're dealing with what do we do about the pirates and the foreign and the foreign navies you don't hear that much like off the coast of maryland nowadays well the pirates and the spanish are really going to be a. I don't know which will be worse,

but we're going to get attacked by somebody. That doesn't really happen here. Yeah, so then they would later on, they use these ships as private armed vessels that would carry valuables, basically like armed cars or armed trucks, except armed ships. Back then, valuables were spices and sugar.

And gold. Yeah, that was what it was. Yeah, spices, fucking coffee tobacco yeah it's coming from here it was a big deal from there uh yes so they uh the war of 1812 ended up happening and this town is kind of famous for the war of 1812 there was a uh in 1813 there was a fleet uh under admiral george cockburn moved up to chesapeake bay and towards st michael's uh because there was a militia battery there this is you know war of 1812 we're talking about muskets and cannons and shit like that yeah this is a totally different time here uh so uh there was there was a battery there to defend the town and its shipyards so in the in the, you know, it was still dark outside.

On August 10th, 1813, there was a big battle there. The British sent a landing party ashore just south of town. And basically the Americans or whatever you want to call them at that point, revolutionaries, turned the British back. And they ended up getting back on their boats. And so the British bombarded the town from their barges and they didn't destroy the shipyards though or cause any substantial damage to the town. The militias were returning fire and everything. Contemporary reports noted that several houses were pierced by the British fire but not destroyed.

And they feel like they should have been destroyed and so later on after that uh they they made a legend out of it basically that this was as a result of the town dimming their lights and hanging lanterns in the trees beyond the town so that the cannonball they pulled shooting at the trees they pulled the blazing saddles on them basically where they're if we can rebuild the town by morning they come in a whomping and a whomping pulling a number six on them you know then it's going to be a totally think they're hitting your front door but they're hitting the trees in the front yard exactly so but they're shooting beyond the town into the trees which is that's what they were doing brilliant uh yeah so they ended up being known as the town

that fooled the british basically that's what they're still they don't call themselves and they're known as uh and that sort of thing uh there was a big celebration of the battle in 1963 so it's uh uh after the 1812 the war of 1812 shipbuilding went down and uh the oyster industry came up big and everybody here was involved in some aspect of fishing. Something. Every family had somebody that worked on a boat somewhere at this point in the 1800s. There was no other reason to be there. It was either oysters or people worked at the shucking houses that were producing oysters and all that sort of thing. So they had a grading system for oysters and crab meat that they still use today. Really? That they came up with.

Yeah. They started then. The crab meat one. Frederick Jewett devised a five-level grading system. Regular, claw, special, back fin, and lump, which is used still in the industry today. So that's where they came up with that. Notable people from this town. Frederick Douglass.

No. The abolitionist and, you know, kind of statesman. Yeah. A lot of things you could say about Frederick Douglass. A lot of titles for him here. He lived in and around St. Michael's on a lot of different occasions during his childhood and things like that. And then when he kind of came back a couple of times. So he kind of was around this town a lot.

Harold Baines grew up there. No kidding. Baseball player. Yeah. Still lives there today. Harold Baines. And then when he kind of came back a couple of times, so he kind of was around this town a lot. Harold Baines grew up there. No kidding. Baseball player. Yeah, still lives there today. Harold Baines. He lives there still. Yeah, the guy he played.

What did he play until he was 46 or something? Because he was de-aging. Played for everybody. White Sox, the fucking Rangers. Funny sidebar. He actually hit my friend's girlfriend with a foul ball. No kidding. In about 2001.

Yeah, it was a foul ball. Everybody went to reach for it except for her who stayed perfectly in her chair because she does not know how to catch a baseball and no one laid a finger on it and it hit her right in the leg and bounced off and hurt her it was hilarious oh it was a really high pop-up it would have hurt super bad if just uh just unencumbered or unun uh unobstructed, pounced right off your leg. Would have hurt. And the rumor is he did a shitload of steroids. Harold Baines? Yeah.

Yeah, maybe. He was a small guy. He wasn't big. Was he a shortstop? No, no, no. What did he play? I think he might be mixing Harold up. No, no, no.

Harold, outfielder, first base a little bit. White Sox, right? White Sox for a long time. Yeah, he played for everybody, Baines, because he he got around yeah uh old harold baines he played forever though uh i'm trying to think of who you're where there's a rumor are you thinking of julio franco i'm thinking of tim raines are you thinking of tim raines that is a very different man entirely different dude tim raines is famous

for sliding fate head first to not break his coke vials in his back pocket. So that's a different guy. Do you see why I don't know who the fuck I'm talking about ever? That works out. Tim Raines, Harold Baines. Same guy to me. Same guy. Harold Baines, Tim Raines. Did Harold Baines play for the White Sox?

Yeah. They both played for the White Sox. They both played in the 80s through the 90s. God damn it. It makes sense. I can see it. They sound similar. I thought Eddie Murray and Eddie Murphy were the sames through the 90s. God damn it. It makes sense. I can see it. They sound similar. I thought Eddie Murray and Eddie Murphy were the same person when I was six.

When I was six, I'm like, that must be the coolest man alive. He's hilarious, and he hits 30 home runs a year. He's my idol. This guy's amazing. I'm like, they're two people? They're two great people? This is amazing. He played for the Expos.

No, he didn't. No? He might have for him. I think he did. He's at Orioles forever. I think he played for the Expos, too't no he might have for him he's at orioles forever and then he played for the orioles and dodgers who were his main teams forever i swear i have an eddie murray card from the fucking if i'm not mistaken rod my friend rod yeah got his last got him out for the last time really if i'm not mistaken that's pretty him and joe carter i

think were his last two that's the coolest hall of famers yeah unbelievable which i thought was neat as a closer i guess you're going to do that once in a while. So the movie Clara's Heart was filmed here, which starred Whoopi Goldberg in 1988, and Neil Patrick Harris in his doogie years. When he was still a kid. When he was still a kid. Also, Wedding Crashers filmed near here a little bit, too. That was there, okay. And neighboring towns as well.

Also, in Bob's Burgers, in season six, they did a little take on the whole town that fooled the British thing. The cartoon. Yeah. The sloop that duped the British's was the name of the show. So and they asked H. John Benjamin about it. And he said, yes, that's what they were doing, basically. And by the way, if he's he's hilarious, that H. John Benjamin, he has an audio book that's

very funny. Really? Yeah, because he reads it. So it's just funny. It's just very funny. In 2007, the town was named number eight of the top ten romantic escapes in the USA. There you go. By Coastal Living Magazine.

Those oysters, babe. That's what it is. It's the oysters. It's 2008. Forbes published an article saying that St. Michael's called it, quote, the East Coast weekend getaway you've been missing. Oh. So it's a big deal here.

They love this. And the permanent population has not changed much since 1860 like literally since before the civil war it's basically the same it's within very uh near in 1860 population was 1016 people today population 998 people right around the same so in 160 years 17 people have lost 18 people and through then they went up to like 1400 and down and up into but i mean it's basically the same thing uh here uh down 23 since 1990 which is like 100 you know so actually it's like 300 people so it's a lot actually uh female population way higher than the males this there's a old people are off the charts insane here this is uh just this is cocoon just in a town this is it's so old here

uh female population 59 that's how old this town is because you're females outlive males you know you do it's a common thing you can outlive so if there's a bunch of 95-year-olds, there'll be eight women and two guys. That's how this shit works. The longer it goes, the more the males are winnowed out here. So 59%, 40% male. The zero to nine-year-old kids, those demographics are a little bit high. But the old people, off the charts, 65 to 74, 75 to 84, and over 85 years old are all double the average yeah all double incredible fucking old yeah here just very very old uh marriage it's about the same 50 it's about what

it is normal divorce rates a little bit higher widow rates double as you might expect from an old town like that with all these old people uh single with no children 17 these old people are swinging yeah you get out there and you know hey it's amazing that's right if you like it a little down there 20 that's one in five you like it a little crinkly this is your town you know what i'm saying you're it's gonna work out i stuttered because you like it a little crinkly. I don't know where that came from. God, Jesus. Race of this town. 66% white. It's normally about 62%, so pretty close to average. 28% black, which is more than double the average.

1.7% Asian. 4% Hispanic. So it's white and black. It's Maryland. Watch the wire. It's white and black, guys. That's pretty much what you got there. So 43.3% of people in St. Michael's are religious, which is under the average.

Every single town we do where the over 65 population is really high, that religious moves. It's low. They either forget or they just go, I'm in so much pain. There's no way this is on purpose. This can't be a plan. And whoever it is, him fuck him i've buried three of my grandchildren so uh the religions are spread out methodist lutheran episcopalian it's it's pretty spread out uh 0.9 percent jewish almost a hundred gila so close

so close everybody damn it a tenth of a percent of a percent if you get a few more jewish people to literally like 10 more jewish people to move their sense of invitation havenagela next year uh 0.0 percent islam here uh 42 percent of the people voted democrat in the last election last presidential election election 52 percent republican and uh about six percent independent which is actually a little bit high. Unemployment rates right about normal, about 4%. Now, here's where it gets weird. This is a town of very expensive homes, very expensive vacation homes, weekend homes.

You know, rich people that live in, like, D.C. and shit. They call Dick Cheney owns a house here. Oh, yeah. Like a bunch of high-powered politicians and lobbyists. They have houses here. This is where you go. Then there's the people who live here who are the people who sell you your coffee in the morning and shit like that and do the normal jobs. Do your landscaping while you live somewhere else.

Deal with the water department and all that kind of stuff. Normal people jobs here. They have to live there, too. So it's very difficult and very weird, and we'll talk about it. Median household income is only $53,000, which is about $4,000 less than the national average. But when we talk about the cost of living, it's out of whack. Most of the jobs, over 15% of the jobs are retail trade.

Interesting. So knick-knack shit to strangers, to tourists. The magnets. The magnets and shit like that. Yeah, shot glasses and magnets. And crabs that have been laminated with St. Michael's on it. You know how that works. Shot glasses and magnets.

The shot glass and magnet industry is very big in the coastal town. It's booming. Booming. You have no idea. Everyone wants a shot glass and a magnet. And health care is very high, too and a magnet and uh social health care is very high too a lot of people in health care because everyone's 100 so they probably need a lot of health care uh just everybody's selling seashell shaped shit or wiping an old lady's

ass those are the two jobs here yeah 93 year old woman wipe her ass or sell this fucking laminated seashell with a crab sitting on top of it. Shot glass blower. Holding a sign that says St. Michael's while a shot glass rests on his back. That one. Those are the jobs. Cost of living here overall is about 100, your average par. Here it is 137. It's a little bit high for it to have a, you know, cost.

Seas, coast. To have an income that's low. Problem is the housing is very high. $218,000 is the housing. Median home cost here, $397,300. How do you do it? Which on $53,000 a year for a household, those don't add up. Oh, God.

That just doesn't add up. 35% of the houses were built before 1939, which is triple the national average. It's a lot. The houses here, there's a few that are valued from $200,000 to $300,000, but a lot in the $500,000 to a million category. That's where a lot of these houses are. And then a good chunk over the million dollar range, too, in worth.

And if we've convinced you that you need to be here for some reason, you're retiring, we have for you the St. Michael's, Maryland Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here, and this is all you can do, I think, if you live here and you're not a very wealthy person, is $1,161, which is actually below the national average, or right about at. But still.

So that's got to be there. You can't buy one because I found a three-bedroom, three-bath, 1,400-square-foot house that needs a lot of updating. It's got the old counters and, you know, it needs some work here. Piece of shit. $325,000. My God. For that. I found three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,700 square feet, you know, up to date and everything.

$825, grand for that. So yeah, that's your decent-sized family home with that. That's going to cost you $800,000 for that. I mean, that's 2,700 square feet. It's a pretty good-sized house, but still. And then I found, you want to stretch out here, I found a five-bedroom, nine-bath, 8,400-square-foot house. That's a house. It's huge.

It's gorgeous. And there's a ton of houses here like this this is like very common in the houses for sale 4.2 million dollars for that so holy shit it's a bit so many shot glasses and magnets oh how many how many laminated blue crabs do you have to sell before you can buy a 4.2 million dollar house my word that's so much so many shot glasses so many magnets i can't have catchy phrases on them that's so much money yeah so many if i had 4.2 million dollars the last thing i'm buying is a fucking house like that so many i got crabby in saint michael's maryland uh you know some fridge magnets out there it says i got crap

you know it does. Yeah, I got crabby. It was like a claw, you know, blue crab with his claws out. So things to do in this town. Oh my, the ninth annual

Eastern Shore Seaglass and Coastal Arts Festival. Oh boy. You know you want to go to that, Jimmy. Seaglass? Seaglass. Eastern Shore. What the fuck is that?

Seaglass. I don't know. Glass from the sea, Jimmy. Oh boy. Glass made from the sea. i've taken this ocean water and crafted it into glass uh it'll be held at the chesapeake bay maritime museum takes place uh blah blah blah april 4th 2020 with just three days before we'll be in uh nashville tennessee at zanies for a live show of small town murder just go on just went on sale get your tickets

before it sells out. Pop through there and drive on down. That's right. We're going to plug this shit. We're going to plug ours, too. Ours is better, trust me. This venue, it says it's a new venue, which is great because now it expands

and lets the festival include lectures, live music, food, and libations. Oh, my. Yeah, the Seaglass Festival features more than 70 artisans from local area here, as well as people traveling from as far away as New England. All the way from

Connecticut? Whoa. All the way from northern Massachusetts? It's got to be seven hours down there for them to drive. No way. All the way down there? At least I now know that Maryland's not part of it. It's like an hour and a half flight. Definitely's not definitely not it's the mid-atlantic area uh yeah they uh they said who will exhibit and sell coastal and sea glass related jewelry home decor

art and more please note at the bottom capital letters the museum store now has an atm all right no need to stop also the saint the St. Michael's Brew Fest. Yeah, there you go here. Feature 100 beers, including one off seasonals, collaborations, casts from local and casts from local and regional and national breweries. Three different locations. It will take place at the Crab Claw Restaurant. Yeah.

All the couple other ones to micro brew douchebags. Welcome. They have. Oh, you know it. That's what it is. 13 bands and delicious food. VIP package is $100 here. Live music all day long.

All caps. That sounds like a threat. You're going to get live music all day long. What do you think about that? No. Deal with it. Please, I don't want it. What do I have to do?

Bands from all over Delmarva, which is like the Delaware, Virginia, Maryland area here. Peninsula will perform at all three locations all day long, bitches, whether you like it or not. From rock to bluegrass to indie to funk, there will be tunes that everyone will jam to. It doesn't say that everyone will want to. It says there will be tunes that everyone will jam to whether you like it or not mandatory jamming no names fifty dollars for your basic package here fifty bucks a lot of beer jesus craft beer yeah how much is fifty dollars in beer probably i mean with craft beer probably in a bar in a bar or talking about a store because it's gotta be

retail right this is more than read that well i mean you can have 20 of them though stumble around In a bar? No, I'm talking about in a store, because this has got to be retail, right? Wholesale. This is more than retail. Well, I mean, you can have 20 of them, though. Stumble around drunk, throwing up. You can't drink 20 of those beers. You have to jam, so that's another thing. It's a requirement.

So you're going to throw up from all that jamming, I feel like, at that point. You're going to want more beer after that. They know these things. You're going to retaste that flower. Oh, you're going to. Gross. Absolutely. Crime rate in this town what

we're interested in here jimmy uh property crime is actually about a quarter high a lot of these tourist towns you get kind of a high yeah people target them too well the property crime yeah and the property crime is always can be things that are very small that are you know shoplifting from the from the magnet from the shot glass store. You know what I mean? Shit like that is technically property crime. So, you know. Violent crime, though. Murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is also a little bit high. Maybe about 10% high. So, yeah, I think people are getting a little drunk in this town. Some people come. Some people... 50 bucks? I'm going to drink my fucking craft beers. That's what I mean. 50 bucks. You're going to stumble gonna stumble around you're gonna get angry at the bands that you've never heard of that you don't like forcing the shit down my throat someone's standing beside you

going jam right jam i can't do it anymore i don't want to jam anymore i'm all jammed out i've jammed all the jam and i'm gonna jam there's only i have a limited amount of jam is what I'm getting at. There's just a limited amount of jam. Jam. That I got for you. So if that's not enough jam for you, I feel like maybe I don't belong here. Maybe. But, you know, if that's enough jam for you, then we can work this out. So but let's talk about a murder that happened here.

OK. I think that's appropriate being that this is small town murder. Let's do this. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. I think that's appropriate, being that this is small-town murder. Let's do this. It's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky,

and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts

Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Let's talk about some people, okay? Let's go back in time a little bit. Let's just stretch our arms out. We'll go back to the mid-70s for a minute bit let's just stretch our arms out we'll go back to the mid-70s for a minute that's not when this crime takes place but we just got to go back

there for a second just a scene no no this is going to be in pennsylvania okay here uh we're going to talk about stephen rico uh first of all now i've heard it pronounced it's rico uh it's h r i c k o so i wanted to call him herrico, like Kent Herbeck, who was spelled like that. But it's Rico with the silent H, I guess. So there's a guy named Steven Rico. Everybody calls him Steve. And Mike Miller. They're really good friends.

They become best friends in the seventh grade. So there's a couple of young guys here. They live in State College state college uh state college here uh in this town and uh they uh grow up and they have a basically a a really tight friendship from the time they're you know 11 12 years old in the seventh grade throughout their whole lives so they have a really good friendship here uh now mike miller ends up uh meeting his future wife a woman named Maureen, when she was at Penn State in 1984. Because they're all from Pennsylvania, this whole crew here. And they started dating after that.

And this is when they're like a freshman year in college type of thing. And Maureen ends up meeting a young lady named Kimberly. Okay. Now, Kimberly and Stephen both have a similar thing. Kimberly and Stephen are both kind of they're not shy, really, but they have trouble finding relationships. They both want to be in a relationship and they haven't found anybody to date. Really, they're both heavier set people at the time. Stephen is a six foot four and really stocky.

He's a defensive lineman in high school, a college football player. He's a big guy, and she's a little bit heavyset, too. Neither of them are like, you know, anything where anybody would go, oh, God, you're going to have a heart attack any minute now. But they're just like, you know, they don't have a lot of confidence in themselves, and they haven't been able to find somebody that each other really likes, basically. And so they're both having trouble, and they both kind of confide in their friends. Now, Kimberly works with Maureen, who is Mike Miller's future wife here. Steven Rico's best friend works with Maureen at a as a waitress and as waitresses at a steakhouse. So they become good friends.

And now Maureen knows Steven from, that's her husband's best friend. So she's like, why don't you, I should introduce you to this guy, Steven. He's super nice matchmaker. Yeah.

My friend, you know, my husband's known him since they were 12. There's, you know, he's a super nice guy. He's not a dick. He's not going to,

you know, do anything weird around. He's not going to knock you around or anything like that. He also is a little heavy and he doesn't like it either. Well well it's one of those things where he's having a they're basically saying the same things she's saying i just want to find somebody i haven't found somebody right and i'm not that confident he says the same exact thing so they're like maybe it'll work you guys can be not confident together and you'll be confident all the time they're confident maybe or whatever so they just sounded similar so why not uh now uh she says maureen says quote we introduced them and we went out on a double

date and from that point on they seemed to hit it off shit yeah so there you go uh she said we went out on a double date one evening and steve fell in love with kim immediately and uh yeah she's got like very red hair by the way too she's a super super ginger kim yeah uh very pale very red hair later on she'll dye it kind of dark but uh in her early pictures you're like wow she is it's a different person she is super red like it's it's just very noticeable uh so uh yeah they ended up uh hooking up here kim is from uh stevens had a pretty decent childhood stable kind of family he's got uh like i said he played like high school football that sort of thing kind of your typical pennsylvania yeah kid upbringing like nothing outside the

ordinary here kim had a bit of a rough childhood her parents got divorced which kind of messed her up a little bit but that wasn't the kicker it was that her mom remarried to another guy and the stepfather was abusive fucking jerk so yes exactly complete complete asshole so that kind of uh you know she that's it's a tough thing she's trying to overcome all of that shit too and whatever but she seems like well adjusted everybody says kim is outgoing social wants to be life of the party likes to do stuff likes to go places yeah likes to have fun very fun person so it's not like she's uh you know she doesn't seem very much affected by her her any kind of childhood whatever so uh anyway mike and maureen miller they

hang out with stephen and kimberly they all everybody gets together hangs out all the time they're you know always double dating and all that sort of shit here they uh they're all from the same town they all went to penn State. So it all fits. This is a very easy relationship here. This is going on through the 80s. This is happening. Now, Kim and Stephen get married in March of 1989. So you can kind of set that tone.

They're about 22 years old, right after college graduation. years old right after college graduation you know this is a very typical kind of american story back then of uh usually a success story or some sort of the beginning of a life together right you know we'll check back on them in 40 years and they'll have you know grandkids and stuff but 401k pension not on this show unfortunately that's very rare that that's going to happen someone's going to kill somebody or have somebody killed or end up doing something crazy. So Mike is the best man at the wedding, and Maureen is Kim's maid of honor. So, I mean, they're just all best pals here. So now Mike and Maureen end up getting married also.

Steven is Mike's best man, and Kim is Maureen's maid of honor. Adorable. So, yeah, they're probably thinking, oh, we're going to have kids at the same time and all that kind of shit here. The worst. Yeah, you know, they're going to come up together. We're going to live in the same neighborhood. We'll go to church together on Sunday. We'll go golfing, pal.

We'll take one car. Well, speaking of golf, these two are into golf on a professional level. Not in terms of golfing, but in terms of golf courses. Now, within a year of being married, I think it's like 11 months after they get married, Stephen and Kimberly have a daughter. Yeah. So they right away start a family. They wanted to go right off the bat.

Daughter named Anna. That's 1990. She's born. And Stephen and Mike have the same occupation. They studied the same thing in college, same interests, and since elementary school, it is the superintending and maintaining of golf courses. That's what they went to college for. They're groundskeepers.

They're, yeah. There's a college course for groundskeepers? Yeah. Well, I mean, I assume the grasses and the different temperatures and the grasses and the light and the... I would assume there's a science to growing... Is there? For a golf course? I don't know.

Because that grass has to be pristine. Yeah. It's not like your yard where you just throw a handful of shit down. It's not fucking Bermuda out there. Put a sprinkler on it and clap when some birds come and start eating it. It's not like that. It's not ryegrass. It is a little different. Those greens have to be.

Oh, they're pretty intense. It's a totally different thing. You get them to whatever length they're supposed to be and you buzz it down and somehow their roots hang on to that shit. I don't know how. It doesn't turn brown. It stays green. It stays bright green their roots hang on to that shit. I don't know how. I don't know how either. It doesn't turn brown. No. It stays green.

It stays bright green. It's like moss, baby. Yeah. Maybe you've grown them. That's what you've done. Basically, it's a moss layer. It's weird that you can stand atop. It is bananas.

There's no footprints in it or anything. It's so weird. It's a carpet. I don't know how they do it. You know how they do it? They go to college for four years to learn, I think. There you go. And they know how to make it fast versus slow versus deal and and you can move the hole and somehow

you can't tell how is that the grass is so fucking short how do you hide it perfect damage people are perfect how do you fucking jerks do it you know what you do you go to college for four years and you find out because yeah these these like uh high courses, private courses in some of these towns, like a St. Michael's where a rich guy or a rich family would go. A Dick Cheney might go play a few rounds of golf. Or in Phoenix. Or in Phoenix.

We've got shivvels of golf courses. Oh, here, Scottsdale. Oh, it's crazy. What are they called? These big hotels that are... The resorts. The big resorts. There you go.

These big, giant resorts that have all these golf... Championship golf courses. Yeah, they have to be perfect. These people are paying a fortune and if they're if your green is brown they're not that's not a green that's a brown get the fuck out of here i don't want it i'm not paying that much money for this shit so uh yeah they do this uh steven is uh the superintendent of golf courses in western pennsylvania also in dundalk maryland and uh and then later on in the early 90s at the pot tuxent pot tuxent greens golf course near laurel maryland is where he ends up getting a job and mike miller he ends up first getting a job in new jersey and then

finally in october of 1993 he gets a job, Mike Miller, at the Harbortown Golf Course in St. Michael's, Maryland. So now they both live in Maryland by 1993. So they've done all this. They grew up from the seventh grade. Pals. They go to college together for the same thing. They meet girls. They get married.

They're each other's best man. They get the same job. They travel for a couple of years and end up meeting in the same state what a fucking horrible life oh god can't get rid of this guy i can't get rid of him he's moving to maryland now yeah we're in the same business he's my fucking competitor i'm supposed to be friends with this guy she's a drunk he's an arrogant fucking dick i don't want to hang out with these people. Why do we always hang out with them? Since college we have. So what if we went to college with them? But we introduced them.

For Christ's sake. So anyway, they both get settled in Maryland and maybe keep their close relationship. And they keep their, you know, it's just never stopped, basically. The couples do normal things. I mean, they're building families. They're buying homes they're uh moving up in their jobs and you know getting promotions and things like that keeping up with the joneses shit yes yes they're they're becoming adults and uh they buy uh the steven steve and kim buy a two hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy policy in 1996 as a security thing.

That's what you do when you have children. And you start to put a couple bucks in the bank. You say, well, if I die tomorrow, somebody better get something here. My kids are fucked. Exactly. So yeah, we're all going to be screwed. Kim is a certified surgical technologist. She's assigned to the operating room, first at Holy Cross Hospital from 1995 up until

about December 97 and then another hospital after that. So she's got like a real kind of stressed high level type of job there. She from what I understand and what her friends say, is that when she gets a job at the hospital and in this surgery room here after she does all of this, she starts meeting, you know, she likes the fact that she's at a hospital.

There's a million people at hospitals to talk to and friends. In and out all day. In and out all day. And there's a lot of employees and a lot of other, you know, there's nurses, there's doctors, there's tons of people. And so she likes the social aspect of it. But she also is around people who have kind of a better lifestyle than her. She's around, you know, surgeons and doctors.

Yeah, people like that where she sees this other lifestyle. And they have a good life, too. I mean, they have a decent house and a nice little thing going on. But it's not extravagant. Right. And she can. Sure. You make the most amazing grass.

Yeah. I mean, you take somebody's fucking spleen out. That's the thing. Right. And I don't know if that I don't know. I don't know how that is, because men don't look at women the same way as mates as women look at men. And I'm not saying I know how women look at men.

But the fact that assumptions, it's all right to but the fact that... Assumptions. It's all right to assume. The fact that there's 75-year-old men who date 23-year-old supermodels and they're not poor. It's a matter of you've never seen a... There's no 23-year-old male model. In the early 2000s, what's his name? What the hell was that guy's name? I don't know.

Lorenzo Lamas? Yes. Yes, Jimmy. The renegade.orenzo lamas yes yes jimmy the renegade lorenzo loves i'm looking for handsome but anyway you landed there you never see some 23 year old hot international model going out with a 75 year old woman it's not a thing it's just not a thing we don't care how smart she is how rich she is we don't want to have sex with her and when we hear that if that ever happens go, he's clearly gay. Yeah. That's clearly not happening. That's not interesting.

It's sex. As a woman, somehow, I've heard women say, you can be attracted to somebody based on their personality and based on their charisma and shit like that, where it doesn't matter age and shit like that. I don't know. I don't know if money's a part of that. That is a thing, too, because you're dating someone 10 years married to somebody 10 years i'm dating somebody 10 years younger than me yeah it's a thing in in terms of the age difference i wouldn't i don't know that i did

but i had i i didn't even jesus i i guess i i i'm i'm relatively humorous but other than that i didn't have anything i didn't even have a goddamn podcast and she started liking me i don't know how that happened that's a damn good point yeah that's just but i must be a charismatic motherfucker jimmy and men generally i know a few guys that have that have dated or married somebody that was 10 or 15 years old yeah but not much further than that no i know plenty of women that have gone 20 sometimes 30 years old i don't mean 10 or 50. I'm talking the way different. Like, you could be my grandpa. It's a completely different thing. So it's just different.

Whereas men don't see that. Men can see a 7-Eleven clerk who has some sort of scabs picking at her face from her meth habit. And we're like, you know what? If she cleaned up a little bit, she wouldn't be half bad.

She could pick all those all day long. It's a weird thing. Her second button's unbuttoned, and it really does suck for me. It's a weird thing. Her second button's unbuttoned, and it really does suck for me. It's a weird thing that guys have. It's not, we don't care. We almost see it as like, ooh, that'll be,

it's the wounded antelope theory that I had in my joke of, you know. We're like, ooh. She'll probably talk to me. Yeah, that was the punchline. Like, yeah, look at that car. It's a, you know, she's driving an 88 Celica

with one headlight in the rear view dangling off to the side i got a shot here that's how men not that it's true or not but that's how men will think of it you know what i mean whereas a woman doesn't think that they go oh jesus look at that disaster you know it may depend too on how you view yourself because i see myself as a piece of shit that can't get much much anything better than what i am you know what i mean and women tend to go you know what i fucking deserve it that of shit that can't get much, much anything better than what I am. You know what I mean? And women tend to go, you know what? I fucking deserve it. That's maybe they go get whatever they deserve.

Maybe that's it. I want someone who's someone I like, but someone who's charismatic or a better life than what I got a personality or a better life. I don't know what it is. And I look at me and I go, I should be with a meth addict. Emily's not a meth addict. Pick those up of your face. Just for the record.

No, no, no. Just so everyone knows. I have recently done some work on me. Yes, there you go. And the girl I'm dating is much better than I deserve. That's good. That's better. So anyway, Kim at the hospital, she's got a heavy job working in a surgical environment.

It's a heavy job. It's a tough life. Including in her responsibilities in the operating room itself, she is in charge of disposing of all unused medicines and drugs following operations. So she's the person who is authorized. You're the person who's... Right. Dispose of the propofol.

You have to sign off that you disposed of all of these drugs that are lying around afterwards and properly. So that's her job. So that's a trusted position. It's a lot of responsibility. A lot of responsibility in a very, very responsibility-laden environment of a surgical room. You don't get a... It's harder to find more responsibility.

You don't get any more. You literally have a human being open. Right. Shit that shouldn't be exposed to air is exposed to air we need to really kind of got to be in government to be more responsible yeah this very specific right like you know making sure nukes don't go off by accident defense things like that yeah things of that nature nothing else is even that important you know that's very many lives depend on you yeah exactly so uh now like most like a lot of

marriages here uh about 97 ish uh there starts to be some problems in the marriage coming to the surface for uh kim and steve not for the millers they're doing fine right but uh kim and steve start to have some problems all the recos and it's just you know it's it's probably they're eight years into their marriage. These things happen. Yeah. People kind of grow away from each other,

especially if you got together when you're 22. Known each other that long? Known each other since college. You got married when you're 22. That's what I mean. You don't know. You might be very different.

She's not, she's not kind of this freshman girl who doesn't, you know, relationships and she's a little sketchy and doesn't feel confident

about herself. That's not her anymore. Now she's a little sketchy and doesn't feel confident about herself. That's not her anymore. Now she's a confident woman who's a surgical nurse and, you know, technologist and she's got a fucking career doing all this shit and they're just different people. So I think that's what happens with people. Now, Mike and Maureen Miller said they were aware of these problems because they're best friends. So they're going to, they confide in each other and you know it too.

When someone's, you get, if someone hates their wife and they get a call from their wife and they go that you know that guy hates his wife it's just a fact you know how pained were those phone calls we'd be at the fucking studio my phone rings oh my god don't answer it jimmy jimmy don't answer it that's what i would say jimmy it's gonna happen again don't answer it she's gonna keep ringing turn it off then put it over there put it in a different studio i don't know but you leave in your fucking car i don't care but this is not healthy so that's what ends up happening here so they're they're still together but i mean they're people complain to their friends

that you know what your best friend's problems are absolutely in something like their marriage especially if you got them together and they've been oh very involved and intricate and aware of your marriage and everyone's going to be involved your best the best man and the maid of honor they're going to have to hear some shit here so a friend of theirs who's a friend and a former neighbor she said she used to see Kimberly all the time. Kimberly used to go out with the girls on Friday night. She's had a very active life. She does social things and she has to just live her life and be happy.

She said that Kimberly was, she asked her, because she just kept saying she was unhappy. So this woman said, well, why are you unhappy to Kimberly? And she said, Kimberly said there was a lot of verbal abuse. She also said that Steve didn't do anything and she did everything. She was just totally unhappy with him and she didn't want to be married to him anymore. That was the gist. Not even the gist. That's what she told this lady in plain English.

So that seems like a problem. Those are some loud gripes. And if that's her gri know that seems like a problem those are some loud gripes and if that's her gripes then what's underneath is way worse yeah that's just i'm done with this person that's not like well that shit's over yeah that's no counseling coming that's what i mean that's not like he does this one thing that i wish he wouldn't do or she does this or you heard him slurp soup you know what i mean or whatever even like he works these long hours well maybe he can get a different schedule or he can adjust his thing or nothing like that it's you know i don't get to spend time with him it's not that it's i don't want to spend time with him i don't like i hate

that man i don't like him she quote she was just completely unhappy with him that's that's that's it right there i want to like my husband and i don't absolutely she described to a former co-worker of hers uh quote this is what former co-worker of hers uh quote this is what the co-worker said quote she said she had been feeling really bad about their marriage for a long time she said that her and steven had been having problems and had and had been having problems for a long time so this isn't new this is just people it sounds like growing apart she said that uh uh she the co-worker said she always suspected that she had problems, but she had never really confided in her until this one time. And Kim said that she'd been living a lie for a long time,

trying to act like she had a happy little family, and she doesn't, and she's miserable. In the summer of 97, she asks Stephen to go to counseling. And I don't know if they go to counseling in summer of 97 or in early 98 but they end up in some kind of counseling somewhere if they do go to counseling in summer of 97 it didn't work real well no put it that way yeah because it just gets worse it was a not not a not a winning therapy situation another co-worker of kim's she talks to everybody about she is she's vocal she's very social she has a lot of friends and she just talks to all of them about it.

She's just transparent. That's what I mean. Yeah, that's what it is. You know what it is? It sounds like she has had a taste of a good life one way or another, and she knows what it's like. And she's seeing if everybody else has it because she knows that for sure that

she doesn't. We mean like, it's almost like, are you happy? Like if everyone else goes, yeah, that's just life is maybe that might be it. doesn't it's what we mean like it's almost like are you happy like if everyone else goes yeah that's just life is yeah i think maybe that's that might be it yeah she's feeling around she like feels like there's something better but she's not sure maybe

are my friends having a better life than me or yeah feeling also two people look for support among their friends where they'll they'll kind of float something to see if they're supportive if you say that and you go you want your to go, well, have you thought about leaving him? And then you go, well, no, that's a good idea, though. Maybe I should. You know, that might be what it is. I don't know.

By the way, I'll talk about that later. Yeah, maybe what it is, I'm not sure here. That's probably closer to the truth than we know. Yeah, because people do that. People feel they feel around for shit,

and that's just human nature. You got a divorce before me, and I asked you so many questions to see if that was the path I should probably be taking. Absolutely. And you probably felt it. Yeah.

Except I was like, yes. Fuck are you talking about? Obviously. Jesus Christ, it took you this long? I met you. You two were together. When I saw you two together for eight minutes, I went, well, this isn't going to last long. What the hell have you been waiting for?

These two don't like each other at all. These two hate each other. Wow. You could see that shit from space. Unbelievable. Literally. There was astronauts going, there's a couple. I don't think they like.

See? It's in Western Phoenix. I don't think they like each other. Somebody tell them.enix i don't think they like somebody tell them wow they hate you well look at her go she's pissed i feel like that's what that's hysterical jimmy's marriage is the both of us pissing on each other's anthill every day and watching the ants just go nuts pretty much that was a sad state of affairs man so good god so uh there's a co-worker of hers at holy cross hospital named jennifer gowan who got married in november of 1997 uh kimberly was her maid of honor also so kim is very social boy oh boy that's too social i will say this and i'm proud of this fact

i'm proud my whole life i've gone through all my friends getting married i've never ever ever been asked to be in a wedding yeah like to have to get i attribute that to my theory and my motto of keeping things at an arm's length that's perfect just far enough where you feel a little uncomfortable asking me to be in the wedding. I don't want to ask him to put a tux on. I don't know. He's, you know, it works great. I'm as much of a social butterfly as any of these fucks.

And somehow I figured that out also. Yeah. All your friends are white trash. They got married on a whim and shit like that. You were my best man is when he got married. That was barely a best man. You were in the yard. I was like, get over here

and stand next to me, dickhead. You said we're both beholden to each other logistically and legally for the next fucking year, so you may as well stand next to me for this shit, too. I don't think I put it like that. I just said, get over here, fucker.

Stand here. Move your ass. I need another fucking... I need another witness. Come on. Stand next to me. Unbelievable. So, Kim is the maid of honor here.

Now, while they were doing the final wedding prep, because maid of honor is kind of, I guess, a big deal. You have to... You're all in... I don't know if you're planning hair and make... I don't know what you're... It seems like you're very involved. It's a big deal.

Best man you're expected to throw a party and show up. Throw a party and then throw up at the wedding. Yeah. That's what you're it seems like you're very involved it's a big deal very best man you're expected to throw a party yeah and show up throw a party and then throw up at the wedding yeah that's what you're supposed to do but not on your tux right that's your job and hold a ring for a while that's literally all you have to do and then do that hacky thing where you pretend to lose the ring yeah you're you're fucking make a toast i think but otherwise that's it there's no real there's not a lot of hours involved in it, really. Maid of Honor is like, okay, this is going to be the next 30 hours a week for the next 18 months. I have a second job now

where we're going to plan colors, we're going to worry about the bridesmaid's dresses. Every word I say in that toast is going to matter. These fucking centerpieces are more important than you understand! That's what they're doing. Yeah? It's crazy.

It's real. Shit is crazy. So it's a it's a heavy involved job so apparently this woman says the bride says that kim says that she was not happy in her marriage and that she was considering possibly getting a divorce so by november she's kind of edging november 97 she's edging toward that uh this woman jennifer says quote after my marriage after the honeymoon, when I got back two weeks later, we had more conversations. So she was still it's just all that's in her mind here.

Now, there's a woman named Rachel McCoy here. That's a woman that's been friends with Kimberly since college. Another friend of hers. They talk at least once a week. So she keeps in touch with all her college friends. She's very social. I'm impressed with that. So she keeps in touch with all her college friends.

She's very social. I'm impressed with that. Yeah, so she says September or October 97, Kim told Rachel, quote, she told me she'd been looking into getting a divorce, that she wasn't happy in her marriage. That was really about it. She said she felt that he wasn't very helpful around the house and he didn't like to go out and do stuff with her.

She was much more outgoing than he was and that really bothered her, and it started to bother her more and more over the years, which it does. Oh, that's a big fucking deal. It is. It's fine at first, but over the years,

these differences cause chasms in relationships. You're not filling in each other's gaps at that point. But there's also a spot where, like, if you're social, and you have somebody that's with you that's not fucking social or way worse like anti-social yeah which sounds like whatever yeah you know what i mean just not social right actively not social not there you go not psychologically anti-social but if you're social and you like being at events you can't have

somebody with you that's a a recluse in a social environment exactly you can't do that it doesn't work you either both have to be standing on the side going look at this fucking guy or you both have to be in the middle of the mix opposites attract until that fucking chasm you have to be able to fill in each other's blanks like that shit you can have dichotomies in all kinds of aspects but social anxiety needs to be fucking either level or it needs to be something where you guys can balance it and work together with it. Yes. Otherwise, you can't be somewhere where somebody else is going to sit back and be a dick about where you're at. That's the thing.

Like with Sarah, we're a really good combination. Neither of us want to go anywhere and talk to anyone. But if we have to, we're very good as a team working it out. And she knows when I'm like not feeling it in this situation. So she'll take it over and talk even though she doesn't want to. And even if she has to, she'll also help you exit that situation. Yeah. And I'll help her because I know she doesn't want to be there either.

She's very social as far as she's good at smiling and looking really the part. She's involved. She's paying attention. She's good at it. We work well together. She keeps the conversation moving towards know, she's good at it. We work well together. She keeps the conversation moving towards an end game. Toward the end. Right.

That's the important part for me. That's the exact key for you. Whereas me with Emily, she loves fucking keeping it going and laughing and making a whole fucking scene of it. Yeah. And then until we, but again, there has to be a direction that this thing goes to. If it doesn't, then you need to fuck out. We want to laugh at that person when they're not around.

That's our goal. Let's get away from that person so we can talk about what an asshole they are. The Uber ride home is always a blast. That's fun. And I fucking high five every driver that gets to drive. That's great. They get to hear a great conversation of shit they have no idea about. They weren't there for.

So these are normal marital problems. This sounds like a marriage that's sort of run its course. Maybe they can go to counseling. You never know. It doesn't sound like it, but you never know. Maybe if they went to counseling and she said, this is how I feel. And he went, holy fuck, I didn't know you felt like that. That's terrible. I'll try harder. And then she said, oh, there's the guy. Remember? Who knows? You never know. Maybe if they went to counseling and she said, this is how I feel. And he went, holy fuck, I didn't know you felt like that. That's terrible.

I'll try harder. And then she said, oh, there's the guy. Remember? Who knows? You never know. It could work. And people have done it before. And it worked out.

But if someone's not aware of your feelings, especially over a period of a couple years, you start to resent them for not being aware of your feelings, even though they're not even aware of your fucking feelings. So it's the communication. It's communication. So that might be a thing here. You never know. But it sounds like maybe they're just it's just over you know things happen yeah so uh in late november and early december 1997 the holiday month there uh kim

really starts becoming uh starts getting antsy she wants out of this marriage. She talks to everybody. And we'll go back to that in a second here. Last week of November 1997. Okay. Now, this whole thing is going to we'll get back to that November 1997 in one sec. But we're going to shoot forward quick to Valentine's Day weekend 1998. Okay, Valentine's Day weekend 1998. Four months later, Four months later. Mike Miller, Steve's buddy here. He works at the Harbor Town Resort here, place near or in St. Michael's. So he says that Stephen telephoned him in January and said that, quote, he was looking for somewhere to go with Kim to spend a romantic evening. He said he wants to work on the marriage.

We got so many oysters bro oysters and wine and you're gonna yeah the ocean the ocean fucker crazy you're gonna fall in love again that's what he's trying to make yeah he's trying i don't know if he thinks this is gonna make up for you know however many years of falling apart we're just gonna go for one night and everything will be fine we'll get home go right back to the same shit. I don't know. At least he's got some idea. He's not just going, I don't know what she wants

and turning the TV on. He's giving a shot. He's trying something. So Mike here, he knows that the place he works at, Harbortown, was having a Valentine's getaway weekend thing. It's a weekend package

where you get a room and you get alcohol and there is a murder mystery dinner theater that runs uh in there too so great so you go there you watch the show you eat dinner you get shit faced you stumble back to your room and you bang away fuck yeah that's the and then you come home all happy god this is hot that's what we're talking about here so they're going to one of these i'm sure it's a very corny dinner theater it's one of those it's not something you ran no that's what i did i actually did run a dinner theater once a murder mystery fun no well my tacky and dumb i know wanted to do it so i went okay but we have to do it completely making fun of it that's the only way we can do it so it's a very

satirical um it was filthy yeah i wrote a filthy dinner theater. It was very weird. Not in terms of cursing, but in terms of like... Sexual innuendo and stuff? All sorts of innuendo. It was very dirty and very subversive. And it was very strange to take your grandma to. We had an audience of young people who had been like, dinner theater's weird. I've never been to dinner.

It was weird. We had college kids going to dinner theaters because they were like, this fucking show is crazy. Literally. We had reviews from the AS dinner theaters because they were like, this fucking show is crazy. Literally. We had reviews from the ASU devil paper and all that shit saying, this show's great. You got to go see it. It's weird. This shit's crazy.

It's way up in North Scottsdale. Go to it. It was in Tempe. Oh, did you do it in Tempe? Yeah. They were like, you'd expect this to be old people, but it's crazy. You did it over there at, what was that place called? It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. But it's the fucking famous place. Yeah. It was a good Yeah, it was. You did it over there. What was that place called? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But it's the fucking famous place. Yeah. It was a good place. But yeah. So anyway, this is not that. I'm probably pretty sure. No.

This is probably. This is hackery upon hackery. This is hackery. But it's like, it's not focused on the show. It's focused on you. Audience participation. So what do you think? Right.

And they bring someone up and see, I didn't do any of that shit. That was not how there was a fucking script our actors would deal harshly with anyone who fucking your show would be great in vegas we're like you're almost telling everybody get the fuck out that's kind of what yeah it was it was interesting very different very different uh vibe than anything before so anyway uh yeah there's this thing and he said hey this could be fun this could be for you so we call steven up and he goes what about this you know you wanted to take her away about valentine's day this whole thing steven was like fuck yeah let's do it and uh so mike was like i'll tell you what i'll do i'll work it out so you can have one of the better

cottages there that has a view of the river real romantic like yeah he's gonna work this all out for him so he's got something cooking here. So Mike and Maureen, the Millers here, they even say, we'll even babysit for you. Their daughter Anna's nine at this point. You know, Stephen and Kim. So they're like, we'll even babysit for you. They don't end up taking them up on that,

but they offer. They said they just wanted to give them this time away and they thought maybe this would help and they would do anything possible to facilitate helping their marriage. I'm excited for Steve's dick. Yeah. At this point, whip it out, Steve. Let's take a look at it.

Let's take a gander. Let's see what you're working with. Let's go, buddy. Let's see what you got. You got a lot to prove. Let's go, buddy. But you're working with, you got a full toolbox. It's a whole weekend going here.

Let's see what you're doing here. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee

Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along

with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21stst bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on apple podcasts oh they the couple said they knew they needed time away normal married couple shit right

they're working out she's disillusioned but it's not exactly normal married couple shit because it gets worse than that in the time between thanksgiving and this valentine's day uh now november 29th is jennifer gowan's wedding the wedding that she is going that kim is going to be the best uh the native on weekend thanksgiving i guess the week after thanksgiving weekend it's horrible one thing if you if it's in a place like back east people go home for thanksgiving weekend so you might get guests that have moved away that's the only thing that i can think of either way and that you're also getting a fucking deal yeah that too well like i've gone back to new york for thanksgiving weekend a long time ago and like if you go to a bar everybody went to high schools there

went with and you're like where the fuck did all these people come from they all came back to town yeah this that sounds terrible it was too god this is the fucking worst i just came for a drink fuck all this is so terrible and one of my friends lived above the bar and he's like you want to go smoke a joint and i was like yes get me out of here and we're sitting there and he can hear the music and people and i look at him and i go how do you do this i couldn't help it how do you do this how do you live here while he's rolling or like you're already while we were halfway through smoking how do you do this how do you live here while he's rolling or like you're already while we were halfway through smoking how do you do this how do you do this man and he just went i don't know that was his response he literally shook his head and he went i don't know like you know i never thought about it before but i should kill myself i really appreciate you being here because

i don't fucking have thank you for ruining my whole psyche i had a whole handed him back to the joint and mirrors and everything. Flew back out to Phoenix and left him to wallow. He committed suicide a month later. Didn't go back for the funeral. Not surprised. He's still alive, unfortunately, for him. Miserable still, but alive.

But alive. Now, so, yeah, this wedding, November 29th, she's the maid of honor. The week before the wedding, Kim hosts the bachelorette party for jennifer it's in easton maryland there nearby that's where they filmed a lot of the wedding crasher stuff uh it started out at mike and uh maureen and mike miller's home and later on they go to a restaurant and bar and they're out and uh basically they're out until the place closes at about 1 30 a.m so they close the the joint down. Bachelorette party here. A few days later,

Kim throws a shower for the bride at her home, at Kim and Steve's home in Laurel. And then the next day, the wedding party, the next day is Thanksgiving, and the whole wedding party spent most of Thanksgiving Day

at Steve and Kim's house. So this is a big, kind of a week-long party. Like I said, people are home. Everybody's there. People are staying. So the only thing is here is there is a gentleman there, a guy named Brad Winkler, who is a 23-year-old cousin of Jennifer, the bride, here. And he's a sergeant in the Marines. Oh, shit.

Assigned to the Pentagon. Oh! So this is a dude with some posture. Yeah. You're one of those Pentagon Marines. Yeah. They make sure you stand up fucking straight. Hell of a haircut.

Oh, shit. Yeah. Clean cut. Fuck. Posture happening. Yeah. I assume. He wore his dress whites for this.

Dick rigid. Yeah. At all times. Yeah. Just ready for action. Hell yeah. Yeah. So, yeah yeah i assume so

uh apparently kimberly was smitten with this young man uh yeah she's a little older than him and she's a apparently a strapping handsome young cat fuck yeah and uh she's into him so uh he was at all the events because he's there from out of town or from the he works the pentagon but he's there for the wedding in town it's a holiday week so they're all hanging out together it's his family so uh uh there was uh uh he started to get over the course of the week a little bit more and a little bit more talking to kim a little bit more you'd see them kind of by themselves talking and all this sort of thing uh apparently everybody said they would kind of linger behind after all the other guests

went home and we'll talk for a little bit longer and yeah all that sort of shit here see that marine dick that's let's see it boy yeah that attention how's it look attention young man yeah that's how it is so uh how's it salute that's that's what you need to do you better treat me like a commanding fucking officer mister so uh jesus christ so her friend norma who was also around here she said she noticed quote brad was ever present so uh his name's even brad yeah you know so uh kim apparently at first they said that uh she over this norma overheard conversations kim was being a good listener kind of like an older sister type of thing. He apparently had had a bad marriage at this young age of 23.

Brad did. And she said that one day they went in the car. Norma, Kimberly were dropping Brad off somewhere. And Norma said that Brad spoke of a bad marriage and that he basically gave her his whole sob story about how he's sad and all that. Brad's a coxsman. Yeah, Brad's. Brad's gaming. He's laying it down for whoever.

Fuck yeah, he is. He's laying it down for whoever will then take the path. I salute you, Brad. He said, I laid down the road. I don't know who's going to follow it, but I laid it down. I'm fishing. I'm trolling. It's yellow and it's brick.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm giving it a shot. He's giving it a shot here so apparently after he got out of the car uh uh kim said to her friend norma here things like oh he's such a nice guy and the girl who ends up getting him is going to be a lucky one and shit like that you know what i mean oh boy she's going to be a lucky one and you know whatever and you know he's really nice and really sweet it's too bad how that woman was so mean to him and all that type of shit so she's kind of already already being there uh yeah it's one of those things and at the wedding he's the only other guy at the wedding except for steven or at the at the wedding shower there at the uh that steven kim's house steven's there because it's his house and brad's the only other guy so yeah uh steve's a genius steve started noticing this

and steve's not a real thrilled about this no as i might as you might imagine a fat lawnmower and they got this fucking marine around here is the one with his marine cock with with his flat top that's as short as my greens he admired his laptop stiffer than my fucking fairways stiffer the stiffer than my seventh hall green damn you fred son of a bitch so apparently kim told one of her friends told norma that steve got a little pissed off and kind of was like hey who the fuck is this guy why is what's he doing hanging around here because the party had left and he was still lingering around talking to Kim and all that. And he's going, who's this fucking guy hanging out here?

Yeah. Yeah. That's what you should be like. Who's this one? Who is he fucking want? What's with the biceps? Hey, why is he here? Hey.

What's with the fucking kill count on his belt? Hey, Pyle, what's going on here? What's this fucking guy in my kitchen. Hey, Private, you want to fucking roll out? What's happening here? Move him out, Private. Let's go. Are they playing Reveille at 5 a.m.? Left, right, motherfucker.

Step, step. That's your rhythm. How's your march, Brad? Get the fuck out of my house. Brad might be a fine young man. He might be great. And a fine young Marine as well, I'm sure. I hope you don't try to fuck my wife.

But if you're in my house, you're talking to my wife after the party's over, they're about playing that bugle. Yeah. It's time to hit the sack, I think. Ain't there a cot with your name on it, Brad? I don't think so. God damn it. We're going to be playing taps here pretty soon. Someone's folding the flag in your honor, motherfucker.

Yeah, that's how it works. He's not real happy. No. So he said, it's a wedding shower. Why is he here? I'm here because it's my house. And so the next day, Kim was telling her friends that steve was a little jealous because brad was hitting it uh she tells her friends though that it wasn't that she goes oh yeah no no no why not me she he was jealous because

brad was hitting it off so well with our daughter like he was playing with our daughter and having fun it's like nope that ain't it that's not it no no he didn't try to diddle the kid no one mentioned that no one said i don't like him i don't like our daughter being nice to a person and liking him. That's not going to work. Nope. Not that at all. So this happens through November into early December. Brad would, when Jennifer, after the wedding, went on her honeymoon, Brad volunteered to be the house sitter.

And he would also babysit because Jennifer had a baby. So he would babysit for them all the time. So he was always over at Jennifer's house. And apparently, Kim started going over on a daily basis to help Brad with the house chores and to give him child-rearing pointers on how to watch a baby and stuff. I don't know what I'm doing. She's a dumb Marine, and she's a mom. Oh, you know me. I'm a guy.

I don't know. I gave her a beer. The kid didn't like it know i don't know marine and she's a mom oh you know me i'm just i'm a guy i don't know what i gave her a beer the kid didn't like it i don't know i said here's a here's a beer and a can of dinty more and he just threw it down on the ground i don't know what's going on with this fucking pizza pockets and miller light and he's not in i said domino's numbers on the fridge on that magnet with the crab with the shot glasses on and i put it right to it i got jogging and push-ups i don't know what to do yeah jesus christ here so i gotta get another haircut what are we doing so uh we're not making fun of marines by the way at all we're making fun of brad in this particular situation because a marine with a child

fucking fish out of water that's not that's a that's not their thing i'm sure there's plenty of no marines are great but that's like an 80s movie premise it's not you three men and a baby we wouldn't even needed three men if it was just a marine and a baby that would have been the premise right there like that's three men that would be yeah just a marine standing over a baby going i told you not to poop yourself that's now me 20. Didn't I say it? Stop flailing your legs now. Stand up, pussy. You are going to clean that latrine?

Yeah. Here's a toothbrush. Now go wash my piss. Not going to work. It's not the same. So anyway, this all happened on a Friday night. This happened all the time. She's going over every day. On one Friday night, they started to on a Friday night. This happened all of her time. She's going over every day.

And one Friday night, they started to make out, Kim and Brad. As you knew, this was going to happen. Of course it is. Yeah. She said, so this happened several times at Jen's townhouse there, Jennifer's townhouse, while they were on their honeymoon. And then after that, he lived at his aunt's house, and she would come over to his aunt's house and yeah they're still in the deal now so yeah they're hooking up no they're hooking up that first night that they first started making out and then they started hooking up now they're fucking now they're fucking big time a lot a lot all the time all over the

fuck yeah wherever they can too so apparently uh kim was just really into it. She would recklessly meet up with him and shit like that. She telephoned Jennifer while Jennifer was on her honeymoon several times, saying that she was about to fuck Brad. Like, I'm going to fuck Brad. She's like, that's nice. I'm about to fuck my husband, because I just got married to him, and we're on our honeymoon. Where's yours?

How many people have you called? I hope I wasn't first on the list while I'm on my honeymoon i'm gonna fuck your cousin great terrific that's your aunt's house thanks oh no your house now in your bed but once you get home then i'll just move to your mom's house probably ridiculous so yeah it's it's a little bit weird here so uh she said that she would say that she was going to have an affair with him then when jennifer got back kim apparently informed her in lurid detail of the uh affair everything was going on uh jennifer said quote she told me that they were having sex and that she was becoming more dissatisfied with her marriage to steve she told me that they met while i was on my honeymoon and at my house to have sex and that she spent quite a lot of time with him while i was away uh yeah so she was uh telling him this she was also telling her friend norma who lives in washington about the affair cross the country listen honey yeah operator put me on through to

tacoma please what the fuck is happening coma 3156 i'm fucking right now he's a marine you met him he's wonderful he's inside me she said hey she said that he was very affectionate and that she really loved him that's what she was telling her friend norma uh then on new year's eve they're at a restaurant in laurel and uh she tells her friend another woman named theres named Teresa, that used to be her neighbor, that she's having an affair. Quote, an affair with her friend Jenny's cousin. His name is Brad. So, yeah. Then in January, Kim meets up with Rachel McCoy, an old college friend who we brought up before.

And then she tells her, by the way, I'm seeing someone else. I'm having an affair. She's not good at. No. Women. Guys wouldn't tell anybody. No. That's the one.

No. Women will tell all their friends because their friends aren't going to tell Steve. No. You know what I mean? And they're like, go get it, girl. Yeah. That's the fucking funny part. Right.

Yeah, yeah. Guys will be like, are you out of your fucking mind? 23? Well, I understand. 23 and a Marine. You know, if a guy said that, she's 23, she's a stripper. We'd be like, I don't know, dude. That's going to fuck you all up, bro.

That's what we'd say. I would not encourage that behavior. I'd be like, bro, that's not going to work out. What would I say to you if you came to me with that information? Like, you out of your fucking mind? Oh, my God. Not to say anything wrong with me. No, you'd be like, dude, I'm sure it's great for 10 minutes a night for 15 years she's in a different place what are you

doing it's just not gonna work you got kids jimmy yeah the stripper i think is the physical equivalent to marine as far as a male that's why i said that not to pick on strippers that was literally the same no it's lateral babe that's what yes it's fucking hot for a minute and then it's like this is a fucking terrible idea that's the thing here so yeah she tells

she tells that she does tell her friend Rachel though quote I'm not going to marry this guy

this is just about sex so she's that would be the thing that's the thing what would you say to me dude I'm not gonna marry her I'm just hooking up. This is just, we're just having some fun.

She's got a stage name. She's just. It's going to be all right. She uses it every day, too. She orders Starbucks. That's what she gives the barista. That's what they write on the cup. Raven Caramacchiato.

They wrote it on the cup, James. R-A-V-E-N. It's so weird. She spells it with an I. R-A-V-I-n look so weird she spells it with an i r-a-v-i-n okay ridiculous so yeah kim uh said she she doesn't want to marry this guy but she does definitely want to get out of her marriage here uh she also in a little desperate thing here she has a conversation with a co-worker named kenneth burgess who was another surgical technologist at Holy Cross.

And they started work about the same time in 95. He, earlier, by the way, had been convicted of welfare fraud in Virginia. I don't know why they even bothered to put this in the court documents, what they do. That's interesting. Sorry, Kenneth. I don't know what happened. He looks like he got his life together and became a surgical technologist after that. The welfare fraud.

Yeah, but that's what it says in the court documents. It's public information. It's not my fault. Sometimes you get free... Sorry, Maryland. I don't know what to say. Sometimes you get free groceries. It happens.

So, yeah, he says that sometime during December of 97, when she was hooking up hot and heavy with Brad here, this guy said he was standing in the back of the hall just outside the woman's locker room in the hospital here. As his back was turned to her, Kim said, Ken, I want to talk to you. And he said, without warning, she blurted out that she wanted him, Ken, to kill her husband.

Yeah, he turned around thinking it was a joke. Like, yeah, right, what are you talking about? And then when he turned around, he saw that she was not kidding at all. She's dead serious. And he said, I'm not going to kill your fucking husband. I stole Wicks. Are you crazy? Yeah.

I don't know if that's what she thought. Like the most hardened criminal you've ever met. He's got a record. He knows people. He knows where to get a couple of T-bone steaks. He knows what is happening here. He knows how to sell some food stamps for $8. For a profit?

For a profit. Like, he'll kill my husband. No. Hey, you badass food stamps thief. No, he was like, I don't think so. He said, listen. And he tried to, like he said, counsel her. Like, listen, you know, we've all had problems in our marriage.

There's peaks and valleys. And you work through this. And maybe six months from now, you'll have counseling. Yeah, yeah you know what i mean you got that out of your system perfect uh she though after all this he said you know so don't i i get what you're saying i get we've all felt like that i think he tried to play it like that like who hasn't felt like that's the only way out but i mean obviously we're civilized people that's not the only way out call your lawyer and she said okay she nodded through all this and then said well do you know anybody that would kill my husband that was her

answer to all of his convincing well if you won't do it well anybody didn't hear a word of that just wait until he stopped aren't you fucking a government trained assassin what are you talking about uh she said 50 grand would that sweeten the deal any anybody kill my husband for 50 grand just let you know if you know anyone who might he's not like a this man isn't like a high level cocaine dealer or something like a street part he's a fucking surgical technologist at a hospital not a murder broker not a murder broker it's weird he's done very few murder broking brokers uh working that day is hard so he went 50 grand sweet in the pot she said it's weird he's does very few murder broking brokers uh working that day is hard so he went to 50 grand sweet in the pot she said it's sunday all the murder brokers are closed i'll

ask him if he can do it what what is happening ken once again said i don't know i don't want to be involved i'm not gonna i don't know anybody who's gonna kill your husband i'm certainly not gonna kill your husband i don't think you should kill your husband. Just legally, whatever I have to say to not be involved in this, I'm saying right now. Urge her to just don't kill your husband and don't involve me. Kimberly then said, you know what? Just forget I ever said anything. And tell you what, also, don't tell anybody else that we talked about this. Yeah, I mean, that's the easiest thing I've ever forgotten.

No problem. Never want to bring it up again. That would be my problem. What now? Can we we talked about this yeah i mean that's the easiest thing i've ever forgotten no problem i never want to bring it up again that would be my problem what what now can we never talk about this wow that's this is why you don't talk to people i won't talk about this until the police come to me this is the thing you make friends everything's all casual and nice and everybody's happy and then out of nowhere one day you're minding your fucking business and like will you kill my husband what this is why you don't get close to people are you saying this is why you don't have friends this is why i i have few friends because i don't want this to happen it's gonna happen it's gonna happen it's unbelievable eventually so i don't want to be a part of that i just don't want to be a part of it. That's the greatest excuse.

Very dangerous. To never talk to anybody. Listen, I'd love to have a chat with you, but eventually I'm going to know that you killed your family. Look what's happening. It's happening right now. It's proving my point, Jimmy. These are the people I see every day. Do you say hi to me?

Don't talk to me. You're going to kill your family. I don't want to kill you. No, I'm not not killing your family guy asked me to kill his fucking family i mean he said hi he said i know what he meant but i know what he meant i read between the lines i can see i know it's up that means can you kill my family i fucking dick unbelievable so he said no uh he said definitely not he said you know whatever and then after a while he said you should you know she said don't forget we ever had the conversation so then he was trying to like joke about it so it would be like hey you don't really mean that

type of thing like if you joke about like hey you know you might as well just i mean shit run them down with your car like joking around she's like didn't i tell you to fucking forget about that well he said as a joke he said as like and you know his he made the remark as like he when he still thought she was kidding he goes you work in the operating room you could just put him to sleep he was like what do you need what do you need an assassin for ha ha buddy isn't that funny and she went good point all right and then walked out she's not her head all right and then she's left he's like not the reaction i expected that wasn't there was no good there's nothing good natured about that uh so he said uh yeah we don't know if that what it was what ended up happened but she ended up uh uh she would tell anyone that would listen about her affairs and i want to leave her my husband

and i'm angry at him and i'm fucking this one and anybody new year's eve again she's talking to theresa she said that she's very angry and upset with her relationship uh she said that uh uh she was going to uh ask him for a divorce very soon and she's very upset she was very agitated on new year's eve and she told her friend she'd even she's so out of her mind that she wants a divorce very soon and she's very upset she was very agitated on new year's eve and she told her friend she'd even she's so out of her mind that she wants a divorce but she's so upset she's even been trying to think of ways to kill him that's how that's how upset she is uh so uh teresa her friend at one point said well what would you get out of that what would be the reason to do that how would that help and she said that kim's response was uh she says quote she said well

the insurance money so her and anna can live their life the way they wanted and that she uh and and the way that she wanted to live her life and so this other woman her friend said that uh you know this that's not probably a good idea uh she said that recently uh as her as the sole beneficiary from two separate life insurance policies, Kim would stand to receive as much as $450,000. She's telling her friend, I get 450 grand. That seems low. I mean, well, it's not like she doesn't have a job.

Yeah, but... If you make a good living and you got 450 grand in the bank to pick off of, that's a nice nest egg. I don't know, if you get a divorce... Not worth killing a fucking husband over. If you get a divorce, you probably get, I don't know if you get not worth killing a fucking husband over if you get a divorce you probably get i don't know 250 probably be okay as i'm getting at is it none of this is worth no killing anyone over is what i'm getting at this is pennies compared to fucking what the responsibility of is that yeah divorce is an inconvenience it's like a two-year-long inconvenience that's a nightmare that you gotta do you get over it and you get

through it and then once it's over like i've always said worth it there is nothing better than a good divorce nothing nothing feels better than a good divorce i'm telling you it is glorious it's glorious it really good divorce a good one meaning it needed to happen it should have happened and it's done you're like fucking bang we did it it's the best i'll fucking high five you sugar it's the greatest we need it so jesus god damn it uh another friend of hers here uh this jennifer gowan was the one we talked about uh the wedding the one that had the wedding and the one who she was the best woman she was banging brad what is it yeah maid of honor i was saying that earlier best love it she said she shared uh what jennifer called quite a lot of intimate

details about their contact and intimate contact and uh with brad and and about how quote very happy she was about what was going on with brad uh kim also says that since november she had had sex with steve only once and then it made her want to throw up. So this is, you know, that sort of thing. That's something you keep to yourself. That's what I mean. Jesus. Yeah, no, women are brutally honest with their friends, unfortunately, it seems like. I don't want to be that guy.

I don't want my friends telling me that shit at all. I swear to God, if I'm that guy for anybody. If one of my guy friends has been like, I only banged my wife like once in the last three months and made me fucking throw up, be like, don't tell me that. Why would you want to? Why are you telling me that? That is your private information but if i'm that we're gross but we don't want to know your personal information but if that guy if i'm that guy that any woman ever told her friends oh god jesus yeah i'll open my cock and bleed out fuck a vein fuck down on his knees i'll take a viagra so that it just keeps pumping blood out of it down on his

knees hands in the air like willem dafoe and platoon right before he shot down as the fucking helicopter leaves and i'd rather fucking squibs i don't want to be that guy oh jesus christ so uh they this guy says that or she says that uh you know they talk about it she keeps talking about her intimate contact with her cousin brad this the whole thing's a fucking mess she wants to throw up after having sex with steve uh also she talks more to jennifer and says that uh she's interested in getting a divorce from steve that she would like to kill him. They talk about one obvious, Kimberly points out in a conversation, one obvious disadvantage to traveling the divorce route

would be that Steve and Mike try to get custody of Anna, the daughter, or at best, he's just going to try to turn Anna against me. Rather than just, maybe we can get along and be civilized human beings. I mean, obviously he's going to do something terrible to me uh so uh then kim said look steve is going to be better off dead that was her next logic to her friend she said you know uh because we talked about divorce uh we've talked about divorce before and you know he was very sad when we talked about divorce and he said

that he would be nothing without me and anna and if they got, you know, if they if they got a divorce, he would just be crushed. So, you know, she also said outside of our marriage, he really doesn't have any other life. She said it's really just our family that he pays attention to. Otherwise, he doesn't really have a lot of friends or things to do. So she said, honestly, he'll be better off dead if we leave him. He'll just be this lonely guy who's going to sit there and rot like a like a stump, you know.

But if I kill him, it's the it's a humanitarian thing to do basically i mean this is i'm doing it for his own good jimmy i mean wow obviously you know right that makes sense the most endangered human being on earth is the person who's in love that is not in love back yeah well that is fucking frightening that's scary shit that's a man that's just saying look i don't i don't want anything else but you and she's like i want anything but you i like my family i'll have to kill him he really loves his daughter he's gonna have to die obviously so another thing she said that it would be you know uh she said if we get divorced i can't tell him about brad because maybe he's gonna get depressed and angry enough to kill himself. And if he kills himself, then there won't be any insurance money

because suicide doesn't pay off on this particular policy. So she's like, what if I tell him about this? He's going to be so depressed he's going to kill himself. Okay, either way he's going to die. He's going to be dead. Either I kill him and put him out of his misery and collect insurance money and his daughter grows up comfortable, or else he kills himself and nobody gets anything out of this. If he's got to die, someone might as well get paid for it.

Kim's making a lot of sense. I mean, Jesus, it's very practical. Very practical. Has Kim been drinking? I've been drinking. She makes a lot of sense. I think Kim's had a lot of wine. She's had three empty boxes of wine tipped over there.

Just a goddamn disaster, man. Boxes of wine tipped over there. Just a goddamn disaster, man. So apparently after a while, Kim started getting a little bit more detailed about this. She started, her friend said, in a way in which she would actually kill Steve. It's at this point she made her first mention of sustenalcholine. I guess. I know I'm probably pronouncing that wrong. It's a long drug title here.

And we'll discuss what that is in a little bit here. But she said they had a discussion about a history, a case history, where a woman had injected some children with this drug and that it was a muscle relaxing anesthesia agent that would go untraced. It goes away. It dissipates in your body in a few minutes with a proper dose. And so it was a conversation that they had together.

Jennifer also said that this sustenal choline was something regularly used by anesthesiologists in the operating room and that both she and Kim had ready access to it. And Kim was in charge of throwing out the unused portion of it. So she's got definite access to it and kim was in charge of throwing out the unused portion of it so she's got definite access to it and uh it's very easily uh that she was asked later you know you'd have an easy access she said oh very easy access it's right there you could just take it

um yeah so she said kimberly would would go to her friends for like a moral support on this like so i'm gonna kill my husband they're like i don't think that's a good idea no one's backing you up on that everyone's like you know listen girl i get it like your friends even would be like you know no it's nobody said to her you know why divorce is so expensive nobody said that to her great yeah because it's worth it yeah that's why nobody said that to her yet yeah she said she would seek reassurance and just need Jennifer to be there for her. She said that her brother, Kim told Jennifer that her brother was someone who supported

her and he said that he would even support her if she killed someone and she was asking for her support. If I kill Steven, you got my back on this one? She said she used those words many times. She said not directly, if I kill Steven will you support me but she was like that's what she was getting at that was the gist uh she also said sometime in january kim told

jennifer quote if i could kill steve and get away with it i would do it tomorrow so it's all she keeps bringing up if it comes up more than once it's a problem yeah like once joking around or something but after that it's like okay you're starting to you're fascinated with this you seem to be a little bit too into it here so january 30th 1998 uh about 7 30 she talks to her friend of hers rachel mccoy as we know she lives in baltimore it's her college friend rachel said she went out to dinner with a friend and then she got back to her house rachel's house at 9 30 p.m and there was five or six progressively more frantic messages from kim on her answering machine she said at this point she said quote they were gradually sounding more panicky and they just said call me as soon as you get in i really need to talk to you

please call me please please call me i really need to talk to you call me just over and over again so she said right away she called this would be my thing well like i'm not calling her tonight jesus christ she sounds like fuck that not my job hopefully she figured someone else to talk to by now by now because it's been a couple hours so i'm sure she's figured out someone else to talk to her mom what's on netflix that's we're on a different thing here so a different wavelength so she calls kimberly immediately who uh Kimberly says, please come down here. Come to my house as soon as you can. She said, quote, Rachel, you need to come down here now. I need you.

Do you remember when I saved you in state college? I need you. You have to come here now. And so Rachel was like, all right, let me let the dog out. Give me 15 minutes and I'll be on my way. So Rachel gets there at about 11, between 11 and 1130 at night. Kim had been drinking and was very distraught and very drunk. And Rachel said, she said, quote, she said she was talking more about how it would be easier if Steve were just dead.

And she told me that she had a plan on how to do it and where she wouldn't get caught. So she she says she told me that she could get a drug that would paralyze steve that would stop his breathing and then she would set the curtains on fire with a candle or a cigar and that he would die of smoke inhalation in a fire and that nobody would ever know jesus christ that's her plan uh yeah that is fucking diabolical yeah that is fucking horrific my god well that she's not trying to minimize suffering she's trying to get away with it that's the difference and it's funny because not funny but the homicide david simon book they talk about you know the easiest and the hardest homicides to investigate the one thing that the cops never want to hear is a body that's been in a fire because that's fucking impossible it's a nightmare it's the

evidence is literally burned up it's a fucking disaster even evidence of a fire but it could have been it's so hard to prove that someone intentionally set a fire and it's very difficult to prove arson and shit like that so it's not a bad plan i guess uh rachel said she tried to talk her out of it listen you're drunk. That's a bad plan. That's, you know, psycho was what you just did. What you said is off the fucking rails, next level psycho. You just told me you want to burn your husband alive. Right.

Well, he'll die of smoke inhalation first, then he'll burn. So it's really not burning alive. She then said that she tried to poke holes in the story about like, hey, you know, then this is going to happen. They're going to know you did it like this. And she said that Kimberly, quote, had answers for everything. What about you just told your fucking friend? How about you keep to you told me.

Yeah, ask me a thing. And I'm singing. Well, then she's she's going to be in that fire, too. I don't think I think she's a little scared of a friend at this point. If your friend's talking about seriously murder, I think they're capable of anything at that point. How many other people have you told this to?'s that's what i would that's a good question rachel says she just says just get a divorce man even throw she's like please what do you think

you're talking about drugging him and setting the broom on fire and burning him this is crazy you're out of your mind get a fucking divorce what is wrong with you how great is marine cock jesus she doesn't even want to marry this it's not even what it's about she just wants rid of him it was just so much better and then also gets a marine cock uh she said that uh she kept bringing it up why don't you just get a divorce and she said kim was just not having it she said that this is easier i'm not doing this is way easier oh boy so uh rachel said what about what about Anna? Yes. Anna loves her father. Yes.

That's something she pulled out. What about it? It's going to hurt Anna if her father's gone. And that's going to do that. And she needs a father. And Jesus Christ, what Kim's response was, Anna will be better off without her father. Oh, my God. Okay.

Oh, boy. Why? She's far too into this. She's just going to be better off without her i don't think that's there's no talking you're not better off without with either of your parents dead unless they are molesting you or doing something terrible to you you're not you're not better off unless they are to your detriment you're never better very much to your detriment like physical right horrible detriment yeah and progress of life yeah so jesus christ so at this point r Rachel said she kept telling her, you know, you're going to get in trouble.

You're going to do this. She even said, what if your house burns to the ground? You just bought this house. You're going to burn it down? What if your neighbor's house catches on fire? You're going to burn innocent people up in their own home? Like, you can't do this. You can't just set fires.

And she said, quote, she said, she told me the house wouldn't burn down because there's always neighbors up in that neighborhood. And they would see the fire before the house burned and call the fire department. She's like, listen, these fucking neighbors are nosy. They'll call the fire department. Don't worry about it. Like, OK. So Rachel said, do you how can you do? Can you get a drug like that?

And she said, oh, yeah. She said, quote, she told me that she could get the drug at work very easily and that it was in every hallway or every O.R. And that they used it for trauma victims to stop their breathing so they could put a tube in their throat to put oxygen in them. So that was it right there. That's what she was saying. So she said, also told Rachel that she didn't think this drug was traceable in his blood and that she would just inject it into the muscle. That was her plan she's got a whole fucking plan uh she said she hung out there till about 1 30 in the morning rachel did that night uh basically to make sure she didn't kill her husband and set the house on

fire uh then because uh you know that's a bad look so she said at about 1 30 kim went upstairs to use the bathroom but didn't come back right away. So Rachel went upstairs to be like, what's going on? And she said she found Kim standing in the bedroom where Steve was asleep. So she's like, huh? Oh, my God. Are you doing it now? Yeah. She said that Rachel said she didn't even know that Stephen was home that night.

She didn't even know he was up there this whole time. We've had this whole conversation while he's asleep. While he's asleep. Just a few hundred yards away. Not even a hundred yards. A couple of feet. couple feet 2 000 square foot house maybe not even uh rachel says quote steve was sleeping on the opposite side of the bed and was just standing there and she was just standing there staring on the other side staring at him uh at him with her arms down at her sides just standing there and i told her to come back downstairs she said that she got kim back

downstairs she calmed her down she got kim to stop crying and she persuaded her to come back downstairs she said that she got kim back downstairs she calmed her down she got kim to stop crying and she persuaded her to she needs to get her shit together and go to bed and get some rest yeah your head's all fucked up you're drinking go lay down and relax here so uh she said a few minutes later kim went upstairs and went to sleep rachel said she waited about 20 minutes just to make sure that she didn't go upstairs to kill her husband instead she said she left for baltimore about 2 a.m and called kim the next morning and you know she said quote i asked her what she was really going if she was really going to do this and she said i don't know what i'm going to do rachel so that was uh the last time she talked to her for a while uh

yeah uh over the next two weeks there is uh is they go to some counseling a little bit. She told that her friend Teresa, how Stephen was going to counseling on his own, and he was making an effort to be more affectionate and more communicative. And he's trying because that's what his therapist told him to do. So he's doing all he can. told him to do so he's doing all he can she told her friend that she had talked to steve about a divorce in january and that steve immediately went to therapy and made a lot of effort on his part she even said uh one day he wrote her a beautiful uh what she called a beautiful lovely letter that she read to me over the phone and it was beautiful and steve was going to counseling he's really trying she he doesn't know it but he's saving his own life at

this moment i mean she tries she's making a red flag and he and he's saying oh fuck my bad like the first the first time it was brought up he said i'll go to counseling i'll do this there's letters and things and the paper you're amazing yeah that's what i mean like holy shit i didn't realize it you know it happens to people you take people for granted uh so uh she also said that uh she said so you know are things better now and uh kim said quote he makes me sick to my stomach he's gonna die so this poor guy nothing there uh yeah uh she said quote we talked about uh about he had starting to go see a counselor and that he was talking more uh being more outgoing like like in their relationship uh but he was talking to her all the time and that was driving her crazy now she doesn't want him to

talk to her uh he wanted to talk to her all the time and talk about their feelings and uh and she wasn't interested in that she wanted to go fuck a marine it's a different it's a different feeling i want to talk about my feelings i want marine cock it's just different yeah it's a different deal so uh yeah steven had gone into counseling at her suggestion in order to turn himself around is what she was telling uh her friends uh she said that uh steve begged for a second chance when she brought up a divorce and she said that he had even canceled a business trip so he could go see the counselor and go uh go get go to a doctor to get a referral to a counselor to start right away

like that's how as soon as she said it that that monday canceled his business trip was all just wanted to be okay all only interested in this like she said he's only interested in me and the kid what a terrible guy what a dick what an awful person uh she said she gave him this uh week she said she was going to give him a week to see if he could go get in to see a doctor and at least show that he was trying to turn himself around and then uh she said after that quote he's smothering me and following me around the house like a puppy dog yeah you just asked him to communicate right now you're mad that he's talking to you you just told the man save your marriage and he is fucking desperate to save his marriage yeah she she and she's telling her friends that she uh you know this

is an exercise in futility she called it she said the whole thing's ridiculous it makes her sick she's he's suffocating her she told her friend jennifer uh he comes up and cuddles with her and she feels like she can't breathe and she just wants away from him uh yeah she oh she's always he's always wanting to know where she's going and what she's doing yeah and uh maybe and he'll also like call her you know oh boy and uh he'll just say i'm just calling to say hi yeah she's like oh god i love that leave me alone oh that's her thing here fucking jerk so then valentine's day weekend comes around so this is steven's big plan yeah the last two weeks he's been going counseling he's been writing

letters let's do it can you get me this thing he's got a cottage over the river fuck yeah i'm trying my best here ky let's get to town i don't care even if you're not you know if it's a slow night for you we could work it out yeah you don't even have to try hard i will yeah it's all right so he said that uh yeah he was looking to go somewhere plan this romantic evening uh steve was enthusiastic he said look i did all this and blah blah blah kim was finally she was like all right fine i'll go to this shit basically it's over for kim uh yeah she's checked out the uh brad was out of town that weekend too he's got an official assignment he's not in town so she's like whatever i guess I'll go away with my husband. So, yeah, Stephen, in his journal on February 9th, he said this, quote, Life at home is

improving and I'm looking forward to Valentine's weekend at Harbor Town with Kim. She called twice today and said, I love you without my saying it first. I was very happy. Kim and I have not made love yet and I want to. I want to, but I will wait as long as it takes. I love her. I believe I know what being in love really is. We've been married nine years, but I feel like we just started dating.

That's what he said. God damn it, Steve. He's trying so hard, Steve. Poor Steven. So, on February 13th, before they go to St. Michael's, Kim, on the other hand, made a trip to Brad's house to uh bang him in his course in his aunt's spare bedroom oh jesus she said she wanted to leave her her valentine's day gifts for him as well and she did she left she bought him gifts oh gifts oh and a note and the note reads quote brad oh this he wasn't there i'm sorry he was off uh quote brad i really wanted to give you

these gifts in person but but I guess the Pentagon had a different idea. Yeah, they're, you know, it's weird. The Pentagon, they don't, national security matters. They don't seem to really care what your plans for that night are. It's a weird thing. I'm so proud of what you do. And so I'll just go on missing you.

Have a nice weekend at home, baby. I look forward to seeing you soon. Happy Valentine's Day. I love you so very much. Hugs and kisses, Kim. Okay, that is the 13th. That's the night before they go to St. Michael's here. She tells her friend, Stephen made plans to go see a resort and see a play, and they were going, and she said she was not looking forward to it.

So they arrive February 14th at Harbortown in St. Michael's about 3 p.m. And they check into Cottage 506. Okay. After their arrival, they get a bottle of champagne. Hey, it's one of those type of things. It's romantic weekend. Hey, bottle of champagne. All right.

They get there about 7 p.m. They go down to the dining room for the dinner theater production of The Bride Who Cried. Okay. Yeah. The Bride Who Cried. production of the bride who cried okay uh yeah the bride who cried fucking dagger in his heart uh yeah they they the guy who uh henry dove who played the detective that evening he says that uh there was about 170 guests who attended uh uh this performance the bride who cried uh it's a mock wedding. And then the groom in the middle of the toast

drops dead from poison champagne. That's the storyline. Okay. He said, quote, it was one of the better ones we've done because of the high degree of audience participation. So he's really into it. He also says,

among the people most actively participating is Kim. She is all over this shit. She's like pointing in the groom's face. Oh, she's like, what about him? And she's like trying to organize the whole thing. And yeah, they said she even went as far as to follow the actors carrying the corpse from the ballroom. Like they said, they had to call it like you can't go there. But she was like, I'll investigate this.

Oh, my God. Which is weird. Like, you know, oh, we got to carry him away. But she was like, I'll investigate this. Oh, my God. Which is weird. Like, you know, oh, we got to carry him away. And she's like, I'll go see where they're going. The guy said, quote, it was kind of bizarre. Yeah. Sounds like it really did. How much did it take?

Yeah. What did you do? How'd you kill him? Champagne, you say, huh? I have a bottle of champagne. So they left the dinner theater between 10 and 1030 to go back to their cottage. Kim walked to the lobby of the resort here. We'll talk about this in a second uh in a minute here uh they go back 10 to 10 30 kim uh some time goes by about 1 20 a.m kim walks into the lobby of the resort alone and calmly

announces that her room is on fire okay uh that was it there was a three-hour gap here uh between that time they were seen by people and this happens uh she goes to see elaine phillips who's the banquet manager she's the night duty manager here uh she she gets the report okay uh they said that the way she was was really fucking weird yeah she just walked in uh yeah she said that this person said it was very inappropriate. Behavior was very inappropriate. They said she normal people, obviously, if they realized their husband is trapped in a burning hotel room, might have some franticness, some urgency. Freaking the fuck out. Yeah.

Apparently, she just, you know, plus there's five or six other units attached to this, too. So, you know. Yeah. Somebody else might be. All of them are occupied. So, you know, it's one of those things where you would think that people would be,

you know, scared. She would be scared of this, but she didn't. She said that there was the way she described, but there was neither excitement nor even indication that her husband was still inside the burning room. She said,

quote, a woman walked into the lobby. She had a cell phone up to her ear. It was turned upside down. She was just listening to it. She walked over to us, my cousin and me. This is the night manager here. She said, I need to speak to someone who works here.

My cousin, who was about a step ahead of me, kind of directed her to me. I asked her, may I help you? And she said, yeah, my room's on fire. Not holy shit. Place is on fire. She came in. Can I talk to who's in charge here yeah my fucking rooms like her air conditioner why are you looking for somebody that works there how about any

fucking body at all my sinks clogged up is what she just said you're holding a cell phone on fire call 9-1-1 uh yeah they said well we immediately began to ask her room number and where is her room and she wasn't answering she was just being silent they. They're like, what room are you in? And she's just like, whatever. They said, well, what is your name? And she said, you know, Rico. And they said, I knew that was an odd spelling of the name, so I spelled it out to the night auditor and he gave me the room number 506

and I called 911. I was on the phone to 911 when my cousin was questioning her. Is she all right? Is everything okay? And she said, yeah, everything's fine. Finally, they said, is there anyone else in the room and she said yeah my husband not my husband's trapped in a burning room oh my god that's how you do that what a fucking lunatic oh no holy

arms waving ah right i've seen this phone it's connected to 9-1-1 it's the first person i called because there's a fucking giant fire that my husband yeah no that's not how that works here uh she said she just uh she said there was no this woman said there was no evidence that she was upset she seemed a little agitated but not upset she just said there's a fire in my room uh she said we were way more excited than she was about it basically like everybody there uh the other person who was there was a guy named philip parker he said uh i guess outside she he said when she pulled up he said quote we noticed a car pull up to the front of the lobby we noticed a young lady get out of the car and walk to the lobby of the hotel she didn't screech to a halt and dash in the lobby with the lights on the motor running i noticed that when the car came up the ignition was turned off the car was parked uh

car was parked the lights were turned off everything was calm she got out slowly walked in and just was like rooms on fire husband in there yeah sure uh that was it uh they said you she seemed a little bit agitated but that's about all uh what that's bananas uh yeah uh so this guy says about the the manager quote elaine kind of got a little upset herself and tried to find out what room she was in. She stated that she didn't know what room she was in. She then told Elaine what her last name was. Elaine went to the books.

By this time, my mom had come out of the coat room at the beginning of this. She had walked out of the coat room. Uh, she was already behind the desk and they looked into the record, I guess, to find out what room she was staying at at this time too. I don't remember if it was me, Tracy or Elaine, but someone had asked her if there was anybody else in the room uh that was on fire and she said she thought her husband could be in there uh which is very very very fucking odd yeah so they he said she was really you know it's pretty calm she said when she walked in she mentioned nothing about the fire she said you know she didn't say fire fire who works here she just can i speak to somebody who works here she asked for an employee and then she said the whole thing was just very

calm she said after they checked the register and went there they uh they went across the parking lot toward cottage 506 and uh it's like i said five or six cottage hotel rooms six of them uh the door uh on cottage 506 which was on a porch shared with 404 and 504 and 505 was locked so this woman stood there i guess uh her primary response this is what the first thing kim said okay she stood outside uh this is weird she stood outside they're about to open the door and kim says i want to go see i want to go see his body that's what she says which is weird um they thought it was very strange um uh you know that's why would she want to do that why would she know anything also who knows that he's dead that's the other thing could be

yeah who knows what if he's laying in the bathtub right now what if he's in another what if he's in 503 banging the shit out of your brain. That's the thing. You don't know. Maybe Brad's, oh, that's where Brad was. Oh, you don't know what's happening. Oh, Brad, you fucking. You scumbag. Oh, you lecherous bastard, Brad. So, yeah. So, this Philip Parker, he ran around the back porch and looked through the glass door. It was full of smoke in room 506.

He was able to open the glass door. From there, he said he saw human feet and legs he crawled into the smoke-filled room and found steven lying on his back between the two twin beds like on the floor in the middle of that so he says elaine phillips helped him and they they were able to pull him out to the porch and he's already dead stephen's dead out there uh he's dressed in a clean t dressed in a t-shirt pajamas and was badly burned from the mid chest upward including his left arm very very badly burned uh so his left arm seemed to be they said his left arm was upraised and was like the most burnt part of him there uh which is interesting. They said that they went through all the times.

Police come in. They have a black lab here who's supposed to sniff for shit like explosives and accelerants in a fire. And yeah, the dog sat down near where Steve had been found and gave the signal that he detected an accelerant, which is the dogs are pretty good at that.

And it's not too shabby. So the lab, they don't confirm what they found, but it was possible that it was a light accelerant, something like a cigarette lighter fluid, which evaporates very quickly. Anything that's not burned away. But the dog would have still been able to smell it. Oh, yeah. Wouldn't have been able to trace, but the dog would still get a whiff of it there in the air. So they said, based on that, based on the weirdness of their behavior based on the dog with the accelerant they're like this is a little shady let's this doesn't look like an

accident um uh so they started talking to people they found out steve was a nice described as kind quiet deeply in love with his wife uh dedicated to his daughter uh she was a social butterfly and all that kind of shit you know whatever so they need a story out of kim kim what the fuck happened yeah where were you yeah why were you not burning in the room what's going on here uh fuck his brand where were you for three hours basically kim what's going on now she uh she says she went to talk to the police she didn't give a statement until later okay she went she goes She goes in the company of a priest she brings with her. Not a lawyer.

A priest. At approximately 2.30 a.m. Okay. And she gives another statement at about 5 a.m. this year. She tells the troopers that they left the dinner theater. She and Stephen had purchased four bottles of beer from the hotel bar and gone back to their room. She said they watched the end of Tommy Boy, the David Spade, Chris Farley movie, and then they were watching the late evening news. And they said they had a deal that they weren't going to have sex on this getaway.

And even Stephen said that. That was a deal? That was a deal. Like this was to work on their whatever. That's why they have two twin beds. That's a bad fucking deal. It's very weird. Maybe let it happen and have a good time.

Listen. Maybe that's what you need. You're warmed up. Sit on this. Yeah. So instead, yeah, they're supposed to, but she said that he began pressuring her for sex and an argument ensued over that

and that lasted for 10 minutes and she said she didn't want to argue anymore so she grabbed her purse and car keys and took off. Okay. She left the resort and drove toward Easton to visit Mike and Maureen Miller in the middle of her Valentine's Day. She said she got lost, though, and had to stop and ask several people for directions. This is 1998. This is pre GPS on your phone and in your car.

So that makes sense. You still have the same game on there yeah you're still get you're printing out map quest directions or you know yahoo maps back then or whatever the most entertainment you've got on your phone is that legitimate snake game yeah that's it most fucking obnoxious thing and that was borderline in 99 right yeah or 98 she said that she wasn't familiar with easton and couldn't find the miller's house so she said that she couldn't even find Route 50. And then finally just abandoned the whole thing and had to ask for directions to get back to St. Michael's.

And she got back to Harbortown at about a short little after 1 a.m. She said at that point she discovered that she forgot to take the key with her, the key card for 506. The door was locked. So she walked around to the deck area of the back room because she knew it was a sliding glass door and uh you know so she figured uh it would have been opened a little bit earlier and she said she pushed it a little bit further open because it wasn't locked and she was met by a wall of thick smoke just pouring out she said she reached inside to feel for a light switch she could it's It's so much smoke. Too much. Too overwhelming.

She couldn't feel a light switch. So she ran from the unit and began knocking on a number of other doors and screaming for help, but received no responses. By the way, no one received any knocks or any screaming. No one heard shit. That never happened. She then said she jumped into the car, drove to the main lobby, using her cell phone to call 911 along the way. jumped into the car drove to the main lobby using her cell phone to call 9-1-1 along the way then when she got to the lobby she told elaine phillips the room was on fire and uh you know all of that sort of shit here uh now the cops look at this as uh less exculpatory and more uh inculpatory

like you're just putting yourself into shit basically uh yeah she's trying to she's trying to set up of alibis and things like that and and all sorts of shit but it doesn't really work out like that uh first of all they said she's not going to get lost for two hours maybe she's going to get lost not for two hours when you're a lot of loss on a getaway with your husband that's a long time to be yeah uh easton is no more than a 15 minute drive from st michael two hours two hours a bit much for getting lost two hours could have seemed in maryland you could drive around the whole fucking state in two hours if it's the middle of the night there's no traffic it's a small state uh so yeah they said that you

know she had driven herself there too to the home of mike and maureen about 10 weeks earlier no problem so now she doesn't know where it is all of a sudden she's not you know she hasn't been hitting the head or anything uh kimberly's brother michael also lives in easton two blocks away from the millers she's been there plenty she's very close to the brother michael remember her brother said he'd forgive her if she killed somebody yeah uh so yeah it was uh it was michael who she asked call she said that she uh she called michael and got directions and drove to harbor town and all that sort of shit so may as well be the mayor at this point, knowing her way around. That's the thing, yeah.

So, also, why not, or she didn't, I'm sorry, she didn't call Michael. They're saying, why didn't you, they ask her, why didn't you call Michael? You know, Michael knows the area. And Kimberly had, and she knew she had a cell phone with her. She called, used it at 1.20 a.m. when she called 911. Also, she knew the Miller's number by heart. She could have called them because when the troopers asked for their number, they said

she produced it by heart, no problem. Yeah, that was at 2 o'clock in the morning. She rattled it off. So that's how that works. By 8.30 a.m., that's when Maureen Miller had come to join her and give her moral support here. Kimberly told her about trying to find the house in Easton for an hour and a half.

Maureen said the same question. Maureen said, why didn't you just call me? Yeah. Just, you know, my number. Just call me. And she said, where you're at. She said, well, I don't want to call because it was too late. You were going to come knock on the door, but not call.

That seems like you'd call first, then knock on the door. She said, I didn't want to wake you up. And they were like, okay, why didn't you call Michael? And she said, well, I was just driving around. You know how it is. I was clear in my head. The whole thing was very weird. It was very strange. It made no sense. So you won't call, but you'll ring the doorbell. She also said in the three hours, she kept talking about how drunk Steven was. She said he was just so drunk. He was all he was just gross drunk. He drank a lot. He gotten fairly drunk.

He was sloppy drunk. She said during dinner, he was consuming a heavy amount of alcohol there. Now, a Talbot County assistant state's attorney happened to be seated at the same table as them throughout dinner. That's a problem. That's odd. Throughout dinner. And he says that Stephen had one beer. That's all he saw him have.

And he noticed. And the bartender who served drinks at the table said the people at the table basically didn't drink. The bar bill for the Ricos collectively was $5.51, the price of two beers. One for each of them. Their autopsy on Stephen's body shows a blood alcohol level of 0.00 0.00 he had one beer four hours earlier out of his says pissed it out gone awesome that's it yeah so uh follow-up they let her go home she's won't whatever they don't have

any evidence so follow-up interview february 23rd she thinks she's getting away with this shit a trooper asked for more uh about more about the drinking she said tell you said tell me more about how drunk steven was was it really bad you know how bad was it and she said quote steven drank a bottle of champagne on his arrival at the resort and at dinner he was drinking heavily both wine and beer she said that steven purchased more beer to take back to the room and they said oh wow that's that must be to take back to the room. And they said, Oh wow, that's, that must be rough.

You know, the weird thing about it is this autopsy report here says he's got a 0.00 blood alcohol level. So that's the weirdest part about it is he didn't drink anything. This is a man that consumes all this booze. It doesn't show up in his blood. And for whatever reason, nobody else reports he was drunk. This is bananas. It's so strange. She said she had no explanation. And for whatever reason, nobody else reports he was drunk. This is bananas.

It's so strange. She said she had no explanation. She said, well, that's weird. It is. It's sort of medically impossible, as a matter of fact. Weird is a way to put it. Yeah. You know how that goes.

So they said, would you tell us a little bit more about it? And she said, well, she kept saying he was drinking heavily. They gave her the autopsy. And he said, quote, at that time, she just stared for a second and said, I don't understand that. What else are you going to say? And I don't understand that. I said, well, could you please explain to me if your husband was drinking this amount of alcohol, why didn't it register? And again, she just said, I don't understand why.

I just don't understand. Weird. So a week after Valentine's Day. She's a nurse. She's a nurse. Super weird. I don't know how that works. Not to mention, she kept calling the troopers asking for an update on the medical examiner's report.

Dead. What do you care? He's fucking not around. You know what I mean? I mean, she just keeps doing it, though. Keeps asking. Keeps asking, keeps asking. They said that, you know, everybody assumed it was just smoke inhalation from an accidental room fire. She kept saying she has curiosity and curiosity and all this type of shit.

And they're like, what is it that she's so fucking curious about? What does she think happened? Aliens killed him and then set the room up? This is crazy. So the whole thing was weird. Then right away, she's away she's like well i gotta get him cremated he's gotta get cremated right now he's gotta get cremated they're like hold on a minute jewish hold on a minute yeah no hold on hold on she said uh you know let's you know whatever she just wants the body cremated now her friend here maureen miller said quote we went through the list and she pretty much didn't care about what specifics were of the arrangements for a memorial she was very

non-committal the only thing she was definite on was that she wanted the body cremated she was adamant on that because she said that's what stephen said he had wanted on the day of his death here kim went uh all the way to stephen's parents in, and talked to Stephen's sister, Jennifer, a different Jennifer, about the funeral. Kimberly's only firm thing was the cremation. She didn't care about anything else. Stephen's sister testified, quote, she let it be known that it was fine with her

if we took care of all of it, except that the cremation was decided on and that any other aspects she didn't have a strong opinion on, and they were all up to us. Just as long as you char any remaining evidence possible burn it all it's all good and then the rest of it we'll deal with uh but there had been some hold up they said uh upon releasing the body for uh cremation uh she said that uh when she uh she said that that she was uh they talk about going to the funeral home, and she said that she had anxiety because of this whole thing, because there's a hold on it for cremation.

She won't feel better until poor Steven's cremated. That's what she said. She said on the way to the funeral home, quote, she explained when she was in the car that she was too anxious. She didn't feel like she was up to driving herself. She was pretty anxious. In fact, when I picked her up at the curb, she appeared to be restless. She was walking up and down pacing in an anxious manner. She got in the car. She affirmed that she felt too anxious and shaky to drive herself. And that's why she wanted someone to drive her to the funeral home. And she

explained that there'd been a holdup on releasing the body for cremation. And so she's just, you know, she said she had to sign some papers and do all this shit. And she's concerned. She doesn't understand why. And she's just going crazy. Okay. She's overwhelmed.

She's a poor widow with a nine-year-old grieving child. It's got to be a nightmare. Has to be the worst. So Kimberly talks to Maureen Miller a week after the death, Stephen's death. And this is after uh a trooper had come and

spoke to uh mike and maureen miller and kimberly had spent the night there the night before so uh kimberly said of maureen miller she asked her if she would contact jennifer gow and the woman she was a bridesmaid for right teresa armstrong rachel mccoy by phone to discover what if anything any of the three friends had revealed to the police. She's like, call all these chicks. I told that I've been wanting to kill my husband for three months. See what they've said to the cops. I need to get everybody's story straight.

OK, Maureen said she asked me to call them and find out what statements they had made to the police to seek to seek to learn what friends have been saying to the police. That's very not normal there. So she said that the whole thing is fucking crazy. I mean, she's obviously trying to cover this shit up. So Teresa Armstrong said that she had given some information to the police, and Kimberly said she wasn't sure who else was giving information, and now she's paranoid her friends are ratting her out. She said then the friends were all talking to each other is she yelling at you wondering what

the fuck why is this going on did she kill her husband what's happening here uh it's it's a it's it's fucking bad uh in another telephone conversation kimberly and theresa armstrong theresa asked kimberly quote how she felt about what happened in Harbortown on Valentine's Day. And the answer was, quote, she told me that she was feeling a lot of remorse, which is not what you say. Now, the medical examiner, what he says is very important.

Dr. David Fowler, who's the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner for the state of Maryland, Mark Lebeau, who's a forensic chemist and toxicologist with the FBI laboratory in Washington, D.C., and Dr. Timothy Wex, an anesthesiologist at Holy Cross Hospital. They all testify to the effects and characteristics of the drug sustenal choline here. They say it's extremely dangerous, extremely fast-acting, and ultimately untraceable.

The FBI toxicologist testified that it's, quote, is a very dangerous, fast-acting, and ultimately untraceable. The FBI toxicologist testified that it's, quote, is a very dangerous fast-acting muscle relaxant, typically administered in a clinical setting such as a hospital. It's very dangerous because you stop breathing. The typical administration of this drug would be that you require to be on some sort of life support. So this is when they intubate you, basically. They put a breathing tube down your throat.

They do this so you don't reject it and tear your fucking throat muscles apart, I would believe. So, yeah, it's closely monitored in that kind of setting. They also testify that this drug can take effect within five seconds of being administered in an IV setting and within less than a minute of being administered in a muscle area. Like she said, I'll inject his muscle he said that the body's natural defenses almost immediately break it down into two component parts that are found naturally in the body so within a few minutes you may not be able to detect to detect this drug in a blood specimen it happens that quickly 10 minutes later it's not even in a blood sample

that's how fast out of your system so because your blood breaks it down. He also said that it's the potentially lethal effect and the speed in which it acts. The other substance which concerned this, he says, was this sustenal choline. It's only found in operating rooms. It's a drug which causes very, very rapid paralysis of skeletal muscles, which involves also the chest muscles, you know, for breathing and your heart beating and shit. It shit it's been documented in fact to stop the heart for a few seconds after being given but that's kind of uncommon it acts within seconds if it's not if it's given intravenously and will usually begin to wear off within two to four minutes holy shit that's a dangerous ass drug it's fucking dangerous to have lying around uh So another doctor, the anesthesiologist, confirmed the characteristics and also on its effects on the breathing. He says it depends on the anesthesiologist to breathe for you.

A patient will not breathe themselves. The anesthesiologist will have to establish an airway one way or another. You either have to establish an airway by putting a tube down into your mouth, down into your windpipe, and breathing for you with a mask and a bag and all that kind of shit. Or a tracheotomy. Yeah, you can't breathe on your own. One way or another, you're forcing air down somebody's throat. Yeah, absolutely. And he also pointed out that this drug is, quote, not inventoried as closely as narcotic

drugs, because they're so worried about the narcotics, they're not even worried about this shit, because who would think to do this? They're only worried about people getting high, not trying to kill somebody. It's routinely kept in the operating rooms or available in the operating rooms for the anesthesiologist. It's just on the shelf. So in the second interview, Kim comes very close to confessing something. The trooper finally says, OK, I know about Brad. What about that?

I know about Brad. And she goes, oh, shit. Apparently, she was stunned. She didn't say anything. She just stared. So the trooper said, I advise her that we still knew of her affair and that she was having with Brad Winkler.

At that time, she still never said nothing. She just sat there and stared. And then she finally placed her face in her hands and looked up and said yes about the affair. She was then confronted with the autopsy report again, and her reaction was to stare again and protest that she didn't understand again. I don't understand.

Finally, she's confronted with the fact that there's no carbon monoxide or soot found in your husband's body. For him to die of smoke inhalation, he'd have to breathe it in. Did he die and then the room caught on fire? What the hell happened? body for him to die of smoke inhalation he'd he'd have to breathe it in he'd have to breathe did he die and then the broom caught on fire what the hell happened so at that point she said nothing and she just stared some more and she didn't say uh and then she said again i don't understand why

i don't understand how that can be and he says the trooper says quote at that time she hesitated and never said nothing and then she kind of bowed her face down toward her hands and she started crying she continued crying i said to her kim bowed her face down toward her hands and she started crying. She continued crying. I said to her, Kimberly, please tell me what happened that night. And she continued crying. She gets up out of her chair, walks over, sat in another chair where she continued crying.

Again, I said, please tell me what happened that night. Kimberly said to me, if I tell you what happened, can I go home tonight and see my daughter? That's what she said. I stated to her, Kimberly, please just tell me the truth and what happened that night your husband died. Kimberly looked up and stated to me that I want to tell you, but I want to see my daughter first.

I told Kimberly, I said, Kimberly, I will make arrangements for you to see your daughter. She hesitated, sat there, looked up again, and Kimberly stated to me, I really want to tell you the truth, but can I still go home? So she's about to crack, and they let her go home. Rather than say no and push her over the fucking edge. She's got something. They have this thing, her daughter that they can hold out.

That's the window that you need to get a murder confession. They let her go home. Not too terrific here. So they let her go home. But the conversation when finally they end up arresting her for this. Well, yeah. They take her in

to try to crack her that way. While she's in jail, Jennifer Gowan, the bride there, is visiting her in jail and they talk about insurance money and she said, quote,

Kim said that I don't care what anyone says, it wasn't for the money. That's what she says. So she pretty much admitted. She wants the freedom. Yeah, I don't care what anyone says, it wasn't for the money. That's what she says. So she pretty much admitted. She wants the freedom. Yeah, I don't care what anyone says. It wasn't for the money.

But that's saying I did something. It wasn't for something. So at the trial, they get the realtor there. The realtor who sold them the house watched the entire trial. She says that she was surprised that Kim's attorney didn't ask for a change of venue, which I'm surprised, too. This was a very well-covered case in the area. She said there was at least 50 stories on Kim's case in the local newspaper and approximately 35 of them on the front page.

Trust me, there was a lot of newspaper coverage. By midweek, Judge Horn had to dismiss two jury members who were not only sleeping but snoring, she says also. The trial is, that's not good for anybody uh the trial's long to imagine your freedom is resting on the hands of 12 fucking wake up hey grandpa jesus uh court started jesus court started at 8 30 a.m and continued until 7 30 p.m i would snore too that's a long day of court man that's a long day of court uh the judge said uh that they wanted to wrap it up and get a verdict within a week that was the what the judge said this is more complicated than that

wrap this shit up please let's go uh yeah kimberly jesus christ i mean if you look her whole thing is she's trying to take everything individually well there's no trace of the drug you know arson is who knows and you know whatever she's trying to see if you if you look at each individual thing i'm innocent but they say if you add this all together with you telling everyone that would listen that you just can't wait to kill your husband and insurance money and the fact that you have access to this drug you know it kind of makes it it makes it difficult here. Everything's intertwined.

There's physical fire evidence here. They talk about the key expert witness here is Deputy Michael Mulligan of the Maryland Fire Marshal's office. He says the police got there. Firefighters entered room 506. They found Stephen Rico had been lying on the floor between the beds. Two badly burned pillows had been beneath his head. He testified that the point of origin of the fire was those two pillows. He said that intense heat from the flaming pillows caused the fire to spread on an adjoining bed spread,

and that caused the mattress of one of the beds to be burned completely through. He also said there was a flame impingement on the headboard of that bed on the wall adjacent to the burning bed. The carpet in various places had also been burned. Now, they said the body was badly charred from the chest area up to his head, including an upraised left arm. He said that he was of the opinion that the fire had burned for between five and 15 minutes, but then burned itself out when the oxygen level in the room fell below the point where

it could sustain the fire that's why so much black smoke because it went out uh they said that uh they testified that uh lightning could be ruled out as a cause of the fire there was no lightning that night spontaneous combustion can also be ruled out because that's silly uh i know it's happened twice in the history of humankind, but it's not a common thing. And the fire did not have an electrical origin. There's none of that. The only two possibilities are careless smoking and also a fireplace in the room. Now, the source of the fuel here was the – they looked at maybe it was a store-bought, like, Duraflame long.

He said it was still warm, but it had obviously not been for some time. It didn't cause a fire. It wasn't on fire. It was just warm. It had burned itself out. So that would be physically impossible to catch anything on fire from across the room with a bed blocking you, you know, whatever. So he also said that he was of the opinion that the fire was incendiary in nature.

He felt that through the process of elimination, he ruled this. He said in this case, he's attempted to prove this was an incendiary fire by the use of negative evidence that said it wasn't. It said it couldn't be accidental. It couldn't be spontaneous. It had to be incendiary, is what he said. She says that he smoked cigars and he was probably smoking a cigar and that's what caused the fire that's her only excuse must have been a cigar he dropped it behind his head and did that so they said okay

well let's try to recreate that is what they did uh she said he only smoked when he was drinking so he wasn't drinking we know so whatever but she's still sticking to the drinking story in the room they found under a pillow on the by the fireplace an unopened eight pack of backwoods cigars which are fucking disgusting they're terrible uh they said a carol so they said maybe that was the thing so over the course of a number of days they tried to recreate this uh basically uh they said to eliminate this he he said he went to Rite Aid and bought a package of cigars and Harbortown gave me a pillow and pillowcase similar to the ones in the room there. He said he took it to Salisbury Burn Tower where firemen in Salisbury do their drills

and did this whole thing. He lit backwoods cigars. He said originally, the first one I had laid it on top of the pillow and the cigar would try to roll off, but when we pick it up and put it back on the pillow and made sure it stayed there, the first time I did it, I left the cigar on until it burned out. It didn't even make a mark on the pillowcase. Right. But as the cigar would burn down, you got down to like the butt kind of thing and there would be more exposure from the ash on the cigar. And I started to get a char on the pillowcase, but I could never get it to actually burn.

He said, at that point, I started putting a crease in the pillowcase, folding the pillow over, lighting the cigar, putting it in the crease. And he said, after I saw it, I saw it not smoking for a while. I touch it with my finger to make sure it was completely out, light the cigar again, put it back in there. He said, I repeated this over and over again. It never took more than 10 or 13 minutes for it to go completely out, and it didn't cause a fire.

So he could not get this shit to burn he tried every fucking thing possible would never burn he also went to the testing facility and tried to apply a backwoods cigar to a bedspread and the result again was negative so he couldn't get it to do it again he also those backwoods are really moist yeah they're like wet they'll go out yeah they were a great blunt wrapper but not a good cigar so same thing with uh with the bed the carpet steven's jacket everything in the room nothing i took up one of these backwoods will not do it so he said his conclusion was that the backwoods cigars could not have possibly started that fire because he couldn't get it

to start anywhere in the fucking room uh so they go through all this uh they said it would be uh so they they other people would testify that steven has never smoked no one's ever seen him with any kind of cigarette cigar or anything like that never uh a co-worker said that he's been a non-smoker and uh there was several occasions when she when this one guy had socialized with steven and steven had refused cigars one was a company sponsored trip where they were they were going out to dinner at a very nice restaurant wine was served and also very high priced very nice cigars were offered and they were saying like this is a good cigar you don't even have to pay for it come

on and he was like i don't smoke anything i don't want a cigar he does not fucking smoke a thing uh so also yeah everybody that knows him was like nope never a thing never a thing never anything like that so uh what they did is they checked uh also the room was a non-smoking room so that was the other thing which was odd uh so they said well why were the cigars there so these cigars were they found uh they said they investigated 25 stores in the Laurel area to see if they carried backwoods. They ascertained the cigars had come from the Astor Liquor Store in the Laurel Shopping Center, which is near their residence, the Rico's. Kimberly had been a customer there on more than one occasion. And the clerk identified a photo and remembered on that afternoon in late January, early February,

she purchased a package of Backwoods cigars. Kimberly did. Oh, shit. She did. They were also able to ascertain that the 249 marking label on the packet found in room 506 had been made by the Monarch marking gun used by the Astor Liquor Store. You lying ass bitch. You lying bitch. It was definitely, she bought those.

So they said that staging. She lied about her drinking, lied about the husband's drinking, lied about the husband smoking all this type of shit. The dog sensed an accelerant. So the main defense thing was, well, where's the needle mark if she's injecting him with shit? So they go, you're not going to find a fucking needle mark on a charred body. They said, do you know how tiny an injection needle is on your body yeah you that's literally needle in a haystack and a nurse and it's burned right so find a burn needle and she's good at it and she's also good at it she's not she wasn't in there

ripping her skin apart she probably slipped it in real nice here uh they said that in a drug addict it's going to have a little bit of bruising about it but uh something like this which was uh which would have been like that uh they said you're not going to see bruising at any site because the blood pressure stops so that's how you can tell that that wouldn't be an obvious one uh so yeah there wouldn't be a bruise on the needle mark they said it leaves no trace so her her whole thing is there's no trace of this drug there's no proof i did that they don't know how the fire started the dog sniffed an accelerant i was gone so her whole thing is you don't have a lot of proof i mean it's obvious that i did it but you don't really have a lot of physical proof here uh yeah other than all of her friends saying she was going to kill him and you know a lot of circumstantial evidence so the whole

case goes on it's enough to go to the jury jury comes back after a little while it didn't even take too long guilty really fuck off yeah no they were convinced i think because everybody she knew was like she for like three months all she would talk about is killing her husband and fucking brad right so i don't know she talked about insurance right you know what are you talking about her time uh she loves brad's cock and hates her. And she brought up this drug to several people. So it's bad. During sentencing, Stephen's mother is on the stand here, told the judge that Stephen's death had been devastating and asked him not to show any leniency in sentencing. Kimberly, she's 71 years old. This Mary Rico, she said, quote, Nothing has been the same. My husband can't talk about him without crying.

Quote, nothing has been the same. My husband can't talk about him without crying. So moments before the sentencing, she told the mother told him or I'm sorry, told Kim. I can't think of her name now. I call her Jennifer because there's like four people named Jennifer. Kim told the judge that she prays every day that her husband's family can find peace. She says, I feel so sorry for all the sorrow and loss they've endured. Not that I've caused, though. He says, well, you'll have a lot of time to think about that sorrow that you've caused.

You, ma'am, may fuck off. Life in prison plus 30 years. Oh, Jesus. Let's get another 30 on top of that. That's for the fire part. You could have killed more people here. Arsonist bitch uh yeah uh so the the response to this she says she just can't help but cry she said she wrote to her friend i'm so frustrated i sit here in my cell with a sentence of life plus 30

concurrent by the way uh and i'm innocent so now she's claiming she keeps claiming innocence her lawyer after the trial said quote the medical and scientific evidence just isn't there. It was that highly charged emotional testimony from her friend saying she couldn't wait to kill her husband. That sort of shit. She planned on it. She even told her friend, I'm going to drug him and set him on fire. Yeah. So the autopsy here, they're saying, you know, that didn't cause ultimate proof.

And it's bullshit is what they're saying here. I don't think so. The prosecutor said, it is through friends and confidants that we were able to reconstruct a journey that Kim decided to take. The emotion brought in the courtroom by her friends is palpable. They loved Kim, and she loved them. And they still said, she still said she was going to kill her husband. Now, on appeal, very quick, we're not going to go through it. On appeal, she raises just three things.

Evidence was not legally sufficient, which is really a gray area on appeal. It has to be so overwhelmingly blatant. The evidence was not legally sufficient to support the conviction for murder is the second one. The first one's arson. Third one is that the medical examiner should not have been permitted to testify that the cause of death was probable poisoning that's the thing uh they're saying well he's just guessing yeah he's just guessing which i mean he's the only guy who can really guess at that who else is going to guess at it that's literally their job that's the thing so i that's how that works now in prison she goes to i have to say one thing in the court document.

It's really condescending. The court document is written in a way that you would never seen a male of a man's case written. OK, in between, like everything that had probably about a dozen different spaces in this between paragraphs, they will put lines from Shakespeare plays and where it's from. paragraphs they will put lines from shakespeare plays and where it's from like it'll be like you know this from from uh hamlet or this where it's like murdery shit uh it's so weird like even like uh would have you know tangled web we we even first we practice to deceive that's from one and they'll have that on every single thing at the beginning of it is like a big thing about hamlet so they make it like this is a big a big like uh dramatic thing in the court documents on appeals this isn't like it's written like a like an editorial it's super fucking weird really weird shit here uh now a friend of hers from college named esther getz writes a piece about finding out what happened to her she said she knew her in the freshman year

college lost touch with her and then found out through a friend look her up she said you know google her dude she killed her husband she's in jail for life and she's like get the fuck out of here uh this esther gets is very religious by the way a lot of this shit's religious uh she says here's some glimpses at kim's life uh Quote, she works and makes $3.45 a day as a layout engineer using CAD software. She designs office space for municipalities and has even done some dorm layouts for the University of Maryland. So if you're currently in a dorm at the University of Maryland, it might have been designed by a husband murderer. Maybe. You never know.

She has to buy all her own toiletries. Tide pods are $6.99 for a small box. She lives in the most Don't eat those. Don't eat those. Or she can eat those. Certainly.

Go ahead, eat those. She lives in the most privileged section of the prison because of good behavior. She has a TV and a DVD player. She has seen reruns

of the TV shows where she is featured countless times. She watches them. TV shows about her. She has a pet cat named Lynn. The local shelter partnered with the prison to allow inmates to care for a dog or cat, which goes with them to freedom if they ever get out, which she won't. The cat will get out before her.

She started a book club that she's now spread to three or four other prisons where college professors come and teach, and she speaks to victims' families and allows them to ask her any questions. One thing that's very important at this point, she's admitting she did it now. She's finally admitting it. She's saying that she did it and she's sorry and now that's her new thing.

Because she knows that remorse is the only way that she's getting anything. Yeah, she's fucked otherwise. She's fucked. Her appeals are failed. She's just totally fucked. Oh boy. Yeah, she's yeah she's fucked otherwise she's fucked her appeals are failed she's just totally fucked um yeah she's she's stuck in there but the washington post gave her a platform to write letters because okay she is i don't know if i don't know how i don't know how people think of her as a sympathetic character in this whole thing i really don't see it personally but uh

she's a dickhead she's kind of a just a selfish asshole yeah who fuck and never mind her and her husband all right what about her fucking daughter i heard very little giving a shit about her daughter nothing i want i want what's best for my daughter none of that shit i heard very little uh so anyway she writes this is a complaints thing about what they're not allowed to have in prison and the contra what's contraband and what isn't she says kim does uh quote no cash or checks no glitter or stickers no greeting cards no polaroid pictures no magic marker or crayon no escape plans or bomb making recipes well that one makes sense uh she says the currency one does i suppose because you can use it to influence

guards and inmates apparently she, the in-between middle space of a Polaroid is an ideal place to hide drugs. The folds of a greeting card, too, might be concealing more than wishes for a happy birthday. For decades, our mail room has been primarily staffed by this lady

named Miss Beatrice. She talks about how this lady is by the book and the whole thing's ridiculous she gets notices of male withheld male notices for uh all sorts of shit uh she said that uh uh it says your mail has been withheld because uh uh because women what what does that say must work not work outside the home that doesn't make sense why he's oh i half expected to read that's what it says here half expected to read on my next mail rejection form your mail has been withheld because women must not work outside the home which she's he's saying she's an old puritan this one here

she says she can withhold mail simply because she feels it's contraband she talks about one time she got cash by accident and one time a personal check got through and one time she got a a greeting card and one time she got a a pair of sample earrings tucked inside a jewelry catalog who's sending jewelry catalogs to prison yeah i'll tell you what your business model sucks yeah it does it's not a good one uh so she said that uh her cellmate offered her five dollars in commissary for the earrings and she took it. So she was excited. Yeah, she sold them.

She said one time, though, Beatrice cut the bookmarks out of a new Bible someone sent her. And in the space, she wrote that ribbons are contraband. So like the Bible ribbon. She's really, really, really pissed, though, because she's not allowed to read Game of Thrones. What? She really, really wants to read Game of Thrones, and she's super fucking mad about it so it's not about the khaleesi she's super upset about the game of thrones thing and she said that uh this book was withheld because it contains maps maps or contraband well yes if you're going to escape from the fucking dragon world yes but i

don't know i don't want you having maps to anything. I guess not. I'm going to help you. But she keeps bringing this up constantly. I just want to read Game of Thrones. She said that pictures of her daughter's wedding reception were withheld because alcoholic drinks were shown. They're not allowed to see that. One mail call, she said her friend received an envelope. There's no letter inside. The only thing rattled around was a return address sticker

and the piece of the envelope had been stuck on it so she basically says this is a mess uh a friend of hers she said somebody sent her because she's taking a college course somebody sent her uh 25 26 printed out pages and they're only allowed to have 25 so the whole thing got taken away she's very picky about a woman who's in jail for murder you're in jail for murder do you understand imagine if this is one thing i will say obviously prison sucks for everybody man woman it doesn't matter if a man wrote a fucking article saying that they're not happy that they can't read game of thrones and people are sort of mean to them and they can't see pictures people be like fuck you you fucking killed cocksucker they're like we should publish

that that's it's different they she should have starbucks it's really weird it's fucking weird i'm sorry yeah that's a little that's weird which i get it because women generally we are treat them a little bit less like psychopaths because for the most part they're less dangerous physically i mean technically they're less likely to kill you on purpose. He never killed anybody, but he had some gripes about that prison system. Yeah, he did. He did. That's true.

But they didn't let him write it in the Washington Post. No. And no one was like, you know what? He should be nicer. Yeah. Now, there's been a shitload of books and TV shows about this. A book, The Housewife, Mother and Killer, The True Story of Kim Riko. It's all that type of shit.

I didn't read that crap. It's going to be all inflammatory bullshit. I stuck to the facts here. Also, TV shows. Snapped. And there's like six different ones. They're all crap. I tried to watch the beginning of one of them.

And I watched like the first six minutes of the snapped. And that's the most condescending. I don't know how women watch that show. I know it's on oxygen. But it's basically oxygen but it's basically like they get a bunch of women like psychiatrists to get on there and be like you see women are insane they're not real stable and when they get damaged in the head they'll just do anything fucked up they say like the shit they say i'm like that was that that's not medically true

is it like it's really fucking offensive i'm like this is on lifetime this sounds like it's on fucking you know tom likus is doing this or something what is happening jesus now poor steve steve is buried uh he is buried by the way he was born november 22nd 1962 which is very kennedy shooty it's right around there it's 63 i know it was in november 22nd or third i don't know i don't remember it's right around there 63 november in dallas doesn't matter uh he is buried at the spring creek presbyterian cemetery in state college pennsylvania apparently kim has also been trying to get a hold of his family to like try to make amends oh she says her her goal is to someday uh have them all be able to, you know, heal together.

No, pass this. And they're like, fuck you, bitch. We don't need it. We just don't like you. Right. You killed Steven for no reason. So that is that is that. That is St. Michael's, Maryland.

Wow. That's a crazy ass story. Unbelievable. Holy shit. Yeah, that's a wild one. One of our crazier ones here. Told you last week, this week, we'd have a thick, deep one. Because last week wasn't. We were on the run. So told you last week, this week, we'd have a thick, deep one. Because last week, we were on the run.

So if you like that, you know what you can do about it? Go to Apple Podcasts, the purple icon. Give us five stars. It's so helpful. You have no idea. Thank you for those. It doesn't matter what you say. Say you're following instructions, following directions, something like that.

Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder. All the products, everything. Tickets to live showsandgivememurder.com for everything crime and sports and small-town murder. All the products, everything, tickets to live shows. New one, Nashville, April 7th and 8th. 7th is small-town murder. 8th is crime and sports in Nashville at Zaney's. Lots of stuff coming up. Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta at the end of the month. Then I think there's a few left in Houston.

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shutupandgivememurder.com. With that said, I don't care about any of that stuff anymore. I want to hear about the people, Jimmy. Tell me about these people. Poison me with their names and then set me aflame, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Kim Minkler, Jaina Dickens, Jordan Bennett, Marianne Kahn, I think.

I'm not good at this. Jessica Dowd, Susan McQuilkin. Hey, there you go, Jimmy. Nice job. Caitlin Daly and Stephen Tuthill. I think it's Tuthill. Well, shit, thank you. Thank you guys so much.

We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. You guys go the extra mile for us and we can't do it without you. Thank you. guys so much we really appreciate you guys go the extra mile for us and we can't do it without you thank you uh other producers this week are freya freya freya hagan uh ala ala gina ala gina huber uh tt or tet or teat might be teat okay could be uh anna anna caro caro caro wanna hurricane yep karenina katherine green julia crowley ferrenaerenga, Sonny Johansson, HarleysToys, SeamHeads.com, Thomas Smith, Alicia Massey, CL, that was the easiest one that I've done this week.

Yes, no? Pete Rock, is he on there? I don't know. What's going on? Who's that? Who are we talking about? CL Smooth and Pete Rock. Oh, I don't know him.

Never mind. Never met him. 90s rappers. All right. Rachel Lammenham, Lammen Man, Jude Kendall't know him. Never met him. 90s rappers. All right. Rachel Laminham, Lamin Man. Jude Kendall. Kim Lefevre. World.

No, Ingrid. Ingrid Song. Yeah. Jeremy Smith. Jimmy Lewis. Brendan Ables. Colorado Dragonfly. Josh Clarkson.

Gina XL. Samantha Diffendaffer. andrew andrew lee yeah jesse hartman aaron gerber liz childress uh adam udani jewel a jill braum jewel brahms aaron gerber did i say that i think i did uh trinity or trinite it might be Trinite. It's probably Trinity. Adam Udania said that. Reagan Shalkley. Eric Friedlander. Laura Torres Carpenter. James Marder.

Kristen Kostrub, I think. Kelly Brown. That's easy. Amanda Stanford. Corey Eugene Kuhn. Andrew Bessonette. I think that's right. Trey Valkner, Kerry Johnson, Todd with no last name, Susanna Platt, Elena Diller, Richard James, Liz Vasquez, and Mark Vasquez, two different people, two excellent people, people, two excellent people.

Carly G., Luke McQuiston, Lainey Marie, Alphelia Cox. There you go. Got it. Gary Howard again. Thanks for coming out, Gary. Good to see you, brother. Aaron Lamer Gamble, Laman Gamble, Maggie L., Jeremy

Bethune. He donated both ways. Thank you so much, Jeremy. Pete Oberhaus, Shannon Van Ault, Anna Ann Winter, Bex Ailes, Javette Clark, Kyle Goedert, Goedert, I think it's Goedert. Yeah, Goedert. Probably. Yeah. Sean, no last name, Sparrow Estes, Sarah Martin, Chelsea93.

Yeah, I think that's probably not her last name. Lauren Ocello or Olelo. What did I do? I think it's Ocello. Cherry, no, Tracy. Tracy Renninger. Renninger. We met her, by the way.

And she came to a show with her son. Oh, yeah. Remember Tracy? Tracy's friend. Yeah, it was cool. Nice to meet you guys. Ashley McKeown, Jamie Worrell, George Georgopoulos. That's what that is. Whoa.

Hey, nice. That's a tough one. I like it. Jason Lewis, Carol Chan, Jen Lam. Jen Lam, thank you very much. Jay Musto, Whitney Gregory, Makeout. I don't know what that is, but look it up. Don't look that up.

That might get you weird websites. You never know. Tanya Payne. Thank you. Brittany Hughes. Aaron Ishiok. He donated both ways again also. Thank you, Aaron.

Eve KB. Adam Keaton. No, Heaton. Adam Heaton. No. Yeah. Adam Heaton. Crystal Walker again.

Alana Michelle. Kurt Atherholt, I think. I hope. God damn it. I'm terrible at this. I'm trying so hard. Tara Pratt. Michael Dunbar.

Jordan Barrett. 13 Foxtrot. Andy Holt. Bridget Barnhart. Emily Allen. Randy Martin. Holly McCaster. McCasker.

McCassic. McCassic. There you go. There it is. Cal Paxton, Dina with no last name, Laura Yarnell, Edward Kaczynski, Marielle Pelletier,

Marielle Pelletier, I think that's right. Not bad. Lauren Gray, Amanda Jones, Eli Smith, John Mize, Alex Eldridge, E-Bitch from P-Town, Fuzzy dunlop chris lehours lehours fuzzy dunlop is a wire reference is it god damn it i missed it because i don't know what that is andy matiller uh conchata conchata conchata row uh ryan fisher laura meister

schmoop mcdouble uh how do i nail that first try? Stumble me up. Kara Samuels. Rosa Lujana. Brandon Wagner. Margaret Feltner. Rachel Mazza. Ben Johnson. Avery Reed.

Ariel Torres. Jeffrey Gladden. Thomas Hyatt. Raphael Corno. Jesse Hingle. A Hingle, Janet Gray, Stephen Haywood, Aaron Studer, Samantha Angela, Kate Castice, Joanna Perkins, Heidi Wallace, Kimberly J., Angela Santos, of a movie you got this joanna perkins heidi wallace uh kimberly j angela santos meg shattuck nick nick bogus bogans i think bogans yeah nicky wheeler lindsey sage uh tiffany winstead uh lindsey lindsey d um male maylee doug hoff and all of our patreon supporters you guys i i tried so

fucking hard thank you thank you everybody from the bottom of our Patreon supporters. You guys, I tried so fucking hard. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, from the bottom of our hearts. Honestly. You change worlds. You change worlds, and you keep this a good show, too, more importantly for you. You keep this a good show. You have no idea how a bunch of people just giving a couple bucks here and there

makes us be able to go, no, we don't want to sell that dumb shit product. We're not doing that. Our people won't like it, and we don't care what you're going to pay us because we're not interested. So thank you so much for all of that. Jimmy, what if they wanted to thank you?

How might they do so? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N, Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. Tell me whatever you want. I like hearing from you guys. It makes this all worth it. So thank you. What about you? Definitely.

You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny, or just copy and paste my last name from the show description look me up that way it's probably a little bit easier for you to do that then try to find me but do all of that keep finding us keep coming back because we're going to keep coming back over and over you can't get rid of us now you can't get rid of us until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.