Small Town Murder - #141 - The Bart & Milhouse Ritual Killing in Springfield, Oregon

Episode Date: October 17, 2019

This week, in Springfield, Oregon, where we cover a town that's a little larger than normal, but still has that small town feel, and just as much of small town murder. When a teenage girl is found dead, in the woods, police think they may have another one of The Green River Killer's victims on their hands, but figure out quickly that it's something completely different. Satan, a black witch, nefarious plots, and rune stone instructions are what follows, turning this into one of the oddest, craziest cases we've covered!Along the way, we find out some people are more followers than leaders, that a murder victim's jewelery is not a great gift for your girlfriend, and you NEVER disobey the runes!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Springfield, Oregon, when a woman is found in the woods, police wonder who could have done it. A cult? The Green River Killer? Idiot teenagers? back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week. We are excited once again for murder, which sounds weird but we'll explain it it's going to be good stuff trust me trust me uh first of all thank you to everybody for your reviews this week apple podcast the purple icon we're not heroes we're not sure why no it brings you up the charts

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If you have not listened to crime and sports, you are missing out. Listen to crime and sports. There's plenty there that has nothing to do with sports if you're not a sports fan. It's just a way to disguise making fun of an idiot. Right. And those are the idiots we've chosen because we feel like the they have a particular they hold a particular place in society and watching them fall from grace can be a good time it's a lot of fun so uh yeah watch that or listen to that check that out if you haven't yet i'll get all your merchandise i'd say get your tickets to live shows but looks like

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There's a few tickets left for that. The Small Town Murder the night before is sold out. But come see that. Check those out. We're going to announce a new slew of tour dates very soon. So thank you for that and also i also write from shut up and give me murder.com you can get to patreon.com if you want to be one of our heroes one of our producers who are going to gush about and just glowing terms at the end of the show uh you can be one of these people and by the way new

patreon episode tomorrow everyone above the five dollar level we put out like a bonus episode every it's usually every like four weeks uh on there but we're gonna we're doing one a little early and it's a crazy one another oregon case that we're like we're gonna do today so uh yeah check that out let me reiterate the thank you for buying all those tickets you guys thank you guys so well so fast and the shows have been goddamn dynamite you guys are awesome you guys make those shows really fucking amazing yeah james can put together all the work he wants and and and not sleep for days on end but if you guys aren't there it it's all for not it is you guys have been fantastic so thank you we appreciate it so much uh and like we said patreon here it's

patreon.com slash crime and sports or head over to paypal you can use our email address which is crime and sports at gmail.com you can get to both those places where over uh shut up shut up and give me murder.com that's right a nice try jimmy good job i almost get our email address we have to do the disclaimer quickly uh this is a comedy show uh this is a comedy podcast all the facts are real everything is real uh but we're gonna take a comedic approach to it that's how we do it if you've never listened to the show before the way we look at this okay the murder isn't the important part okay it's not the murder kind of is it's kind of a trojan horse for comedy that's what

we're doing here it's a trojan horse for comedy and we're gonna sneak it in there and you're like ah murder i'm interested hey this is funny and then that's what we're doing here it's a trojan horse for comedy and we're gonna sneak it in there and you're like ah murder i'm interested hey this is funny and then that's what we're doing here oh there's dick jokes well less more than dick jokes but yes that's what i'm saying you you took what i was trying to say and you made it much worse but thank you so what i'm trying to say is we do make jokes we go out of our way though to try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes but we're not scumbags. That's how that works like that. So if

that sounds good to you, we're going to have a good time. If you don't think true crime and comedy should ever go together, you probably shouldn't listen to the show. We're going to be respectful, but we're going to make jokes around things, small towns, a bumbling police force. If there's a murderer who's an idiot, we're going to make fun of that person.

They deserve it. So why not? But for everybody else, we're going to be good. And if that sounds good to you, I think you should sit back and shout it from wherever you are. I don't care if you're in a cubicle in a conservative office. Let it go. Shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. Fantastic. Let's go on a trip. Let's do it. Let's do this. We're going all the way uh to oregon oh this time we were in illinois last week we're lifting the suspension on oregon just because they're interesting and we are going to come there in 2020 we're going to announce it

to our date so you guys have been good so we lifted it a couple months early they have been quiet they've been good they've been good they took good. They took it like stoic woods people that they are. They were clad in flannel and they said, you know what? We deserve this. We should not be correcting Willamette over and over again. You couldn't see their grimace nor smile through their beard. That's the thing. So it's all right.

It's fine. And that was only the women. So it was, no, I'm just kidding. That's a joke. That's a joke. We're saying the Northwest is chilly. No, I'm just kidding. That's a joke on. That's a joke. We're saying in the Northwest is hairy. Well, I was saying also it's chilly. So you're going to everyone's going to grow a very large veil of hair and flannel because you need it.

You need it. I feel like it's evolution. If we stay up there for several, several, you know, a million years from now, everyone's face will be covered in hair like the Wolfman who's from the... I'm dying. That's so terrible. Sorry, Oregon. We made funny a little bit. But no, suspension lifted.

Let's do this. Okay. And let's go all the way. Now, this town, we have to say, it does not fit into our small town parameters. No? No. When it happened, it was a pretty small town. Yeah.

And it's a small place. And if you've been to Oregon, Portland feels like a small town. And it's a big city. But it feels like a small town. So when you get into smaller cities, they really feel like small towns in Oregon. Everything feels like a small town. And this particular one case happened kind of on the edge of town in a rural area in the woods. So it counts.

And when it happened, still there was much less people rural area in the woods so it counts and when it happened it still there was much less people than there is now so it counts and there's another fact about it where if this doesn't make it a small town i don't know what is so it counts i don't want to hear any complaining i can't wait for this and if it's a crazy story so what if there's 10 000 extra people that do you really care does it matter to you i'm goddamn goddamn riveted. Go to small towns. Whether there's 25 or 40, it does not matter. It's the same place. Colorado Springs has over 100,000 people, and it feels tiny. That's what I mean.

So any place can feel small. This is Springfield, Oregon. Springfield. It's in West Central Oregon there. It's near Eugene, which is kind of attached to Eugene. Is this the capital? Yes. Remember when we did that case in Kentucky?

That was the airline pilot got killed by his wife and the guy with the Mickey Mouse ears and all that. Rusty Medina, I think, was involved. No, that was in a different one. That was an Arizona case. That was an Arizona. But anyway, that case, remember how it was Edgewater. It was right on the edge of Kentucky and Ohio and right across the river was Cincinnati. Got it.

So it was separated from a city by just a river. That's kind of what this is. It's separated from Eugene just by a river. Otherwise, it's continuous through there. Like we said, though, small town. It's 10 minutes from downtown to downtown to Eugene. No kidding. The two downtowns. Just a river of separation.

An hour 40 to Portland. So a little longer there. And about 40 minutes to Dallas, Oregon, which was episode 104, which was the one that got them suspended. Was Willamette? Yeah, from there. It's in Willamette.

That's what it looks like. It looks like it. There's no reason to get crazy about it. Makes all the goddamn sense in the world. I would say so. Zip code 97475. And there's like three other ones in here because it's a little bigger of a space. Two area codes, 458 and 541. So not too much.

So it's I mean, it's not like there's a shitload more than that. 15.75 square miles. Kind of an average town. Still small. Still very small. Motto here, quote, proud history, bright future. So they're very optimistic. That's what the government's trying to put forth in the town website.

But the people, they have their own. Sure they do. They have their own war cry. They goddamn always do. The cry of the people is, quote quote it rains a lot here like a lot seriously everything i own is moldy so that's that's what the thing what that's what yeah that's if you if you're going to move there that's what you'll be told i feel like a history of this town jesus christ these i love all these crazy town histories 1848 is uh the first family kind

of settled it was the briggs family settled in springfield and uh it was incorporated in 1885 city was named after a spring and then uh you know that was in a field so they were literally like springfield sure which is probably how every other springfield in every other state in america got titled also i would imagine hey look a spring in that field or a field in the whatever the fuck i don't know right there's water over there didn't look like there'd be water it's a field and there's water there's water in that wide open area that's a town all right now the first inhabitants were obviously native people uh calipui uh poya people sure uh there uh they uh they had the the whole

kind of uh they they actually did like controlled burning to like control their where their food came from and where like the animals were yeah they like figured burning they do controlled burns like burn the animals into a into a into a yeah so that way they do hunt them there yeah the way they move them into like hunting grounds yeah that shit it's like if people did that now obviously that would be terrible torture before there's like machine guns and shit it's just pretty clever you know what i mean because they're not we're talking old school weapons and on horseback and shit this isn't like a german guy yeah with an ak-47 yeah but you move the elephant to the to the field i take

that's not that you know you over there, light a fire. I'll light a fire here. And then fucking everybody else start firing into that shit? No, no, no, no. I think it was a controlled burn. Like, burn this habitat so everything will be here.

Rather than have it here, we're going to make a field here so they can't be there. They'll be over here and then we know where they are. Rather than in a big area, we cut the area down to a smaller area. It makes it easier to hunt.

All right. So it's not like burning shit to ambush them. I don't think think it's like set it on fire and then we'll all set up and as they run fucking mowing down right i don't think it's like i saw it's not like a joker plot it's you know what i mean it's that's goddamn squirrel terrorism that is squirrels i think it's more than squirrels too yes i don't know so uh, the Briggs family settled here. They were the first party to travel to the region through the southern route, which was by the Klamath Lake over the Cascades and then into a valley and then north from there. Now, they ran, Elias Briggs, along with another guy, ran a ferry on the nearby Willamette

River. Yeah. Willamette River. Willamette River. Got that, Oregon? Goddamn river. You said it correctly. So, Jesus. And the valley and all of it.

Yeah. His partner here, William Stevens, Briggs' partner, was the first settler to stake a claim in Springfield in October 1847. He built a house with his three oldest sons, and then the rest of the house was completed and then the family joined him from there and i'm sure they all died of smallpox or just exposure yeah or something terrible mold poisoning i'm not sure frostbite something yeah something something another guy came in was captain felix scott senior oh he settled in there also he's

a big apparently a fancy guy back then. I don't know. It mattered to something. For years and years, it's been the timber industry there. It was a big deal, obviously. The Weyerhaeuser, we've talked about them before. Weyerhaeuser, whatever the fuck it is. Weyerhaeuser. W-E-Y-E-R.

That's stupid. They opened a Springfield complex in 1949. And I read this. This is from some article here. Quote, after years of aggressive logging, was forced to downsize. Aggressive logging. Too much. Take all those fucking, all of them.

I want every tree. Just ain't punching the tree while you cut it down. I want all the birds living on the ground. Yeah. All of them. Every all the birds living on the ground yeah all of them every goddamn nest on the ground nothing above ankle height understand wipe it clean so uh also uh there was a creamery that opened the springfield creamery opened in 1960 by ken kesey's brother chuck and chuck's wife sue i don't know if you know ken kesey is do not heard of ken kesey's brother, Chuck, and Chuck's wife, Sue. I don't know if you know who Ken Kesey is. I do not. Ken Kesey wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Did he really?

Yeah, he's an author, a great author, and he wrote fucking One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. So he's a master. Oh, God, it's beautiful. He's also an awesome, crazy lunatic. Of course he is. Awesome, insane person, acid freak from the 60s. He's great. Hunter Thompson hung out with him.

And he talks about him a lot in his writings, especially in Hell's Angels, where basically Ken Kesey had this group he called the Merry Pranksters. It was him and his friends. I've heard of that. That would do insane shit. And basically, he had this place in Northern California that was, I can't remember what county it was in damn it one of the ones that starts with an M up there

shit don't look at me California I can't remember anyway counties anyway I barely remember cities he got busted for weed a couple of times and then ended up somehow getting because back then that was like prison time in the mid 60s ended up getting away somehow he owned this big property had this big property in the

woods and would invite, have huge crazy parties out there. And he invited Thompson to invite the Hells Angels out there. Oh, that party. And gave them acid for the first. He introduced acid to the Hells Angels. Oh, Jesus. None of them, they were like, oh, it's that, those kids do that shit and all that.

But then when they saw it was fun, then they all got into fucking acid. They were like, this is great. But he had huge parties with Hells Angels on acid, just running through the woods, laughing and crazy shit. Naked. And then like this one particular party, they were pulling everybody over that came out of the party. The cops were.

The cops were looking for Hell's Angels to roust, basically. And they pull over Hunter Thompson and Allen Ginsberg, the poet, who was a very famous guy, too. And they just went down to see what was going on, why the cops were pulling people over. And there's an amazing recording of Hunter Thompson and Allen Ginsberg basically asking these cops a million questions and not getting any fucking answer at all. And it's just them going, well, what are you doing this for? Well, I don't know. They're kind of having it with each other, with the cop.

You just hear the crackling of the police radio and some shit going on it's hilarious stuff and uh that's ken kesey anyway he's a crazy lunatic ken kesey fed him the acid that made him go do that well yeah we gave everybody the acid and also they took him and the merry pranksters took a cross-country trip uh after the is one of his novels was published and that trip is the it's kind of it And that trip is the basis of the electric Kool-Aid acid test Tom Wolfe novel, which is a big 60s kind of novel about tripping across the country. And a lot of the stuff in that book came from those Hunter Thompson tapes from the Hell's Angel parties because they were interested in that. It's very interesting.

It has nothing to do with Oregon except for the fact that his brother had a creamery there. It's terrible. But I don't know. They also had a bunch of concerts there to save the creamery where the Grateful Dead would come and do concerts here to save the creamery. Yeah, because he was a big 60s acid San Francisco kind of icon.

He was one of the first guys that was really touting how great acid was in the mid-60s here. This was like 65 that we're talking those hell's angels parties not you know later when not before your picture and hippies and flowers and all that shit this is like three years earlier two years earlier so uh that shit in 1992 uh this springfield became the first municipality in the united states to include anti-gay legislation in its charter

after a campaign by the oregon citizens alliance what the fuck i'm like what the hell yeah that doesn't sound like oregon no portland is great there's lesbians everywhere they're awesome jesus and you know what they love us and we love them back yeah that's lesbians love us and we love them i'll bet there's more rainbow flags than american flags in fun there's a lot of rainbow flags or at least a one to one ratio at least uh but the state legislature passed a law that prevented anti-gay ordinances from being enforced after that so it didn't matter so that was just probably oregon citizens alliance sounds like some well-funded out-of-state uh you know christian group or whatever religious group

of some kind that is had it was sponsoring anti legislation. They heard there were some gays there. In a lot of towns, probably. I bet in 1992 there was a lot of anti-gay legislation that those people, it's probably an Oregon Citizens Alliance, I'm sure there was an Idaho Citizens Alliance and a Washington one. Certainly there was an Alabama one. They don't need, that's just called Alabama. They don't need an alliance.

They have a state with most of the people in it when the when the rebel flag is directly never mind yeah well never mind now springfield is surrounded by filbert orchards what are those that's a perfect segue by the way out of us getting ourselves in trouble uh hazelnut oh filbert it's kind of not that's what they call that yeah that's a yeah filbert's the actual name but hazelnut is what's, it sounds better than filbert. You want to eat a filbert or a hazelnut? Right. You know, hazelnut sounds kind of, ooh, hazelnut.

That sounds kind of rich, a little savory and sweet. Those are a pain in the ass to get open. Oh, I'm sure. Have you ever tried to open a hazelnut? A filbert sounds like a fat guy. It does. Where's filbert? Yeah.

He's at the buffet again. It's his fourth serving. fat guy. It does. Where's Filbert? Yeah. He's at the buffet again. It's his fourth serving. Jesus Christ. The hometown. The production has declined over time as the Filbert fields have been developed into houses instead. I can't believe that's what those are called. They're ruining that. They even had the Filbert Festival for a while there, but then it was canceled in 2007.

98% of American Filbert production is harvested in the Willamette Valley. All right. So if you like hazelnuts, this is where the fuck they come from. If you like Nutella. Now, the Simpsons, Springfield, as you might know, they did a vote to see which of the They did 16 Springfields in the U.S. to promote the Simpsons movie in 2007. Illinois, Massachusetts. Tons of them. fields in the u.s to promote the simpsons movie in 2007 illinois massachusetts tons of there's they haven't been every states but they took the top 16 okay and they and they uh they had a voting

to see which one was the real springfield right and this one took third in the voting really yes but it doesn't matter because in 2012 mac reining told the smithsonian magazine that this is the town springfield was named after this is springfield this one here this one here because that's where he's from he's from oregon he's yeah he spent time yeah he spent time in springfield oregon as a child this is what it's named this is what it's named after he said the streets everything the people there named after people in the town and no shit yeah this is this is springfield so that's what i mean if springfield from the simpsons isn't a small town i don't know what the fuck is i don't know what is it's literally springfield from the simpsons so this is the town

we're doing it yeah he said uh he left he wanted it to be a secret because every there's so many springfields he thought everybody could relate to it yeah that's why so he kept it not from being oregon but this is the one it's actually based on so everybody can shut up about it how about that absolutely so this town uh in 1950 it had 10 000 people in it so not that big 1980 had 41 000 people in it here uh today they have 60 000 goddamn simpsons so it's the simpsons just the popularity of an oregon lots of people are moving to the southwest to the northwest and southwest, but that has nothing to do with this episode. It's up 36% since 1990. So many people have moved here recently.

When did The Simpsons start? 87. 87. 87 on Tracy Ullman. So they got on the air, I think, in 89. Got it. On Fox. So this is right this time when our thing happens in 88.

That's hilarious. So it's right around simpsons time here uh there's about 40 000 people here when our story takes place we're not stretching much little everything is kind of average male and female are average a couple years younger median age it's usually 37 here it's about 35 all the under 34 year old demographics are high everything else is a little bit low it's kind of a younger place people kind of move out of here it seems like when they get older uh less married people than normal normal 50 50 here it's 43 married so uh single people uh single with no children there's more people

obviously they're uh more married or uh more single people with children there's just more single people so you're gonna have that uh in case you want to go party there. Race of this town, 80% white. Not a shocker there. It's Oregon. They're not yellow? Yellow? Oh, Simpsons.

Oh, my God. I'm sorry. Jesus Christ, Jimmy. You thought I was being racist. You thought I was being a piece of shit. I thought you were being the cheap. I was like, what? It just didn't sound like you because your jokes, when you make, say, a racist statement,

it's never intended to be right. It's always meaning the 2% thing that it shouldn't. Does it mean it's never intentionally right? That was just shitty and like an old man. I was like, Jesus Christ, Jimmy, the fuck is happening? I got to edit that out. What is going on here? No, no i gotta edit that out and then talk to you for a while we don't have a fucking discussion like bro we can't edit that out and now invent an hr department that's fucked up man but no simpsons yes they're yellow good lord thanks shit for that. Oh, God. 0.5% black, so they're definitely not black.

1.4% Asian. Mm-hmm. Sorry. 12% Hispanic. I just looked over to him. I did like the Batman head turn. The whole body. At the hips.

Yeah, exactly. Religion, 25% are religious, so half of the amount normal. So, mic on its own here. It's all spread out, 6% Catholic, 5% other, Christian. It's all 4% Mormon. How about that? That's Northwest. It's real close to that Idaho.

They will infiltrate it here. 0.4% Jewish, 0.1% Islam. So, it's not just kind of a spread around. 53.5% of the people voted Democrat in the last election. 35% Republican, 11.5% Independent. That tells you a lot. That's a really high number. That is very interesting.

That's really high. Well, up there, yeah, I would assume, too, you're going to get a little more. You're going to get more extreme in both directions. Yeah. You're going to get your Jill Stein voters up there in the last election, and you're going to get – is there a militia running Nazi on the ticket? I mean somebody who – I want him to, like, have a picture of Hitler on his T-shirt. If there's somebody like that, I'll vote for him. By George, there might be.

That's the independent there it's either like more flowers or i said kill all the flowers god damn it they make me angry different colored they're all different colors it ain't fair they intermangle damn daisies i don't want to watch them they intermangle jimmy it ain't right i saw i saw yellow ones red ones it ain't right jimmy just ain't natural now unemployment rate here is five percent which is low in in terms of just general unemployment but high in terms of the rest of the country where it's about three a little under four percent right now median household income it's normally about fifty seven thousand dollars a year here it's forty one thousand seven hundred bucks so a little bit low here which is a problem when we get into the housing. A little more like forestry and shit like that than normal in this area, as you would

expect, because it's in the forest. Goddamn woods. Yeah, a little less white-collar stuff here than you would expect to, or a few more social services, I guess. How many PowerPoint jobs are there? Probably a few. Going to move up there? Yeah.

Let's do the cost of living first. I see Homer working there. Oh, Homer. There's a nuclear plant. I don't know if there is one up there. We'll find out. Now, Springfield, 100 is average for cost of living, par. Here it is 106.

So not that high. The high thing is housing, which is 128. Median home cost here is $260,200. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad, but for the lower income and then a little higher housing, it's tough. Yeah, under on income, higher on housing is a tough stretch. Keeping people house poor is a way to keep them in their goddamn job, though. That's true.

They're going to keep chopping trees down, I guess. A lot of the houses between, over half the houses are between $150,000 and $300,000, so that's where you're going to get the majority of them. And if we've convinced you, damn it, you want to go have a beer at Moe's after work, you're going to move to Springfield. We have for you the Springfield, Oregon real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here, I found, is about $1,010, which is actually well under the average for rentals. Average is $1,200? Average is about $1,250 for a two-bedroom.

That might be your way to go here, because the house is, I found, a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,071 square feet. That's not very big. That's small. That's our apartment we started recording in. The apartment I was living in.1 square feet. So that's not very big. That's small. That's our apartment we started recording in. It was like 900 square feet. Right, 992. That's what I mean.

It's not that much. It's not a lot. Not a ton of space. If you have a couple of kids, you'll end up murdering them in this house. Oh, for sure. $180,000 for this house, too. So it's rough. It needs a little bit of an update.

Then I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,720-square-foot house. Nice. It hasfoot house. Nice. It has plants outside. Nice curb appeal. $289,000 for that, though, for a little more. And if you want to stretch out, you've done well. You've sold so much weed, I guess, in the legal market there. Four-bedroom, three-bath, 4,397 square feet.

So nice, spacious. It's on eight-and-a-half acres. Oh, Jesus. So, yeah, lots of moist ground. So nice, spacious. It's on eight and a half acres. Oh, Jesus. So yeah, lots of moist ground for you to walk on. Yeah. 899,000 for this. That's a bit of money. That's a bit of money.

So yeah, you're going to pay for... But I mean, it's not outrageous as far as some of the places we've talked about, which are just over the fucking moon. Really? With prices. Some of them are just like, how is that a thing? How is that possible? You don't fucking live that way.

Especially East Coast. It's just brutal. Really? With prices. Some of them were just like, how is that a thing? How is that possible? You don't fucking live that way. Especially East Coast. It's just brutal. Things to do here, I found the McKenzie River Lavender Festival, which just sounds real boring. Lavender Festival. Lavender Festival. And I'll read right from the website here. As part of the Oregon Lavender Destination statewide tour, McKenzie River Lavender is opening up their farm for a glorious summer weekend featuring the aromatic tour or aromatic flower. Take a tour, take photographs, paint, shop for fragrant products,

and listen to talks on lavender while enjoying the surrounding purple fields. I'm going to go into a fucking coma. Smell it. We're going to use it. And then we're going to fucking talk about it we're gonna use it and then we're gonna fucking talk about it then there's more exclamation points after these now also walk through the fields and cut your own lavender and take home yeah holy shit now i'm sold fucking hey let's do this shit you can specialty lavender products from oils to skincare essentials oh for christ's sake

all this shit food music and lavender refreshments the most accessible lotions on earth lavender refresh everything's lavender in every store that shit exists already except except for the drinks i don't want lavender refreshment lavender flavored drinks farm is not dog friendly oh well then fuck you fuck you i'll take franklin doggoneau roosevelt and benny Parmesan and somewhere else. Then we'll go somewhere else like the Ukrainian Day Festival. Let's go there instead. Springfield's 80 member Ukrainian dance troupe will perform at their popular outdoor festival celebrating heritage.

Dancers from ages five and up to young adults make up the troupe. Whoa. Which performs live and athletic dances with colorful festive costumes. Right. That sounds way more fucking entertaining. A tour of the church's beautiful icon screen starts between dance performances. At 11 a.m., dancers will perform along with coming of age wreathing ceremony.

I don't know what the fuck that is. No, it's wreathing. Oh, they're making wreaths? Then they're going to perform again. Yeah. They're going to go out for a fucking encore. Ukrainian-style dishes will be available for purchase, including a bunch of shit with Zs and Ks and Ys and Hs

that I cannot fucking pronounce. I don't know, but they're going to have it, and it sounds way more fun, and nowhere does it specifically say, fuck your dog. So I'm going there instead. No one said your dog sucks, by the way. Did I mention that your dog sucks? Did it say B instead no one said your dog sucks by the way did i mention why your dog sucks they say biden's are invited no just nope he doesn't say anything about i

there's i believe rudy rudy giuliani is going to be the keynote speaker is all it says here and that's not political it's just a topical thing it's just topical sorry so uh crime rate in this town the thing that we're interested in of course jimmy uh the crime rate uh property crime here is almost double the national average right so that's a great terrific sounds fun it's fucking jimbo and kearney the sun's a bit those little bastards i knew it it's all the ukrainians oh no it's jimbo and Kearney. It's all these guys, man. You know how this goes. It's terrible.

Good Lord. Nelson. You know, Nelson's got to be responsible for at least part of this whole mess. He's a goddamn bully. I mean, it happens, dude. This fucking jean jacket. You know, he's just... You see, the weirdest one is when he was dating Lisa. That was weird.

I was like, I don't like this at all. I was afraid for Lisa's well-being. Was he cleaned up and nice? She was cleaning him up and nice, but then he had to go back to being a dick. He ended up egging Skinner's house, which was the right decision, I believe. Sounds right. So violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is right at average.

So they'll steal your shit more than they'll kill you, which sounds more like Springfield. Not a lot of murders there, it doesn't sound like. Well, it's just mischievous, that's all. I mean, he's mischievous. The kids. I mean, Ned's wife, you know, Homer, I guess, sort of technically murdered her, but not really. How so?

Well, not really. The T-shirt hit her and she flew off the edge of the stadium like Nordberg. Oh, she actually died. Oh, no. Unfortunately, her instead of OJ. So let's talk about a murder. Yeah. Shall we? Let's get out let's talk about a murder. Shall we?

Let's get out of Springfield for a minute. Actually, we're going right back to Springfield. We're going to the edge of Springfield for this murder here. This is on the edge in the woods. Not this. You know, this would be, you know, past the nuclear plant. It's hard to get a skateboard out there. Yeah.

Barton Milhouse would build a fort maybe out here of some kind. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes? You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop

in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

But June 1st, 1988. So we're going to go back 31 years here. Seems like a really long time. When the Simpsons were unrecognizable. Unrecognizable, yeah. You can't even tell that's really that? They were all weird and pointy. So bizarre. No good. Stretched. We're going back to springfield june 1st 1988 children or

they don't say who could be barton millhouse we're not positive but uh well that's enough simpsons references they're playing in a wooded area here like we talked about it's in springfield and as they're playing uh they uh uncover there's a bunch of, some brush that's kind of laid down and it kind of moves around. So they kick it and they find some boards under the brush. They end up moving these boards. You know, when you're a kid, you just look under. Oh, God, it was so much fun.

You're exploring shit, you know. And if you're. You're like a meth head. You take everything apart. Oh, you take whatever. What is this? I want this. I'll take that.

What's under here? I found a key chain in the woods and I kept it for a year and a half for some reason it's i don't know why it's it's got the the name and number of some like hvac company on it it's one of those plastic tab keychains i had the saguaro high school trophy for their football team sweet for no reason i don't found it somewhere i didn't go there i was eight yeah and if you're over like 11 you're looking for porn out there when you're a kid you're like there might be fucking playboys or penthouses or something you know disgusting this guy pushed on that's what happened so much porn in the woods so much so much so that's what ends up happening here so the kids are looking for porn or trophies or

whatever they're looking for what they find is not exactly what they had in mind. They have a real stand-by-me moment here, and they end up finding a human body in there. Under the boards. A dead young lady, it appears to be. So they obviously run away screaming. Police are called in. Near this dead young lady, police find some things they find

a turquoise ring they find a lapel or a hat pin some kind of okay you know what i mean pin with a backing yeah some kind of pin like that and human hair that appears to match their victim here so they're like shit okay this is a problem right away we don't know who this person is. A, she's not known to anybody around that's within identifying distance, I guess you could say. There's a grove of trees that the kids were playing in, and that's where this was. Some of those filberts? I think it was probably filberts. I don't know if filberts grow on trees or bushes. They've got to be trees, right? I don't know how high they grow off the ground, though. I don't know if filberts grow on trees or bushes. They've got to be trees, right?

I don't know how high they grow off the ground, though. I don't know. Maybe they're huge. Most nuts are in trees. It's a towering filbert tree. Come shade yourself under this. You've got pecan trees that are fucking enormous. That's true.

Yeah. That's true. You've seen walnut trees? They're giant. They're huge. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Everything with nuts is big, I guess. Yeah, almond trees are gigantic. Okay, so they're big. They're huge. Yeah, that's true. And you got, yeah, that's true. Everything with nuts is big, I guess.

Yeah, almond trees are gigantic. Okay, so they're big. They're probably fucking filbert trees. Shade yourself under the canopy of the filbert. The mighty filbert. The nut that you have to use the most fucking work to. The only worse is that goddamn Brazilian nut. Is that what it's called?

I don't know weird shaped one you're sounding like the guy in best in show right now i love nuts it's stop naming nuts in there sorry god i love nuts it's a they're so good for you oh god i'm a big almond walnut yeah kind of guy almonds and walnuts so easy to get out cashews i've never seen those uh in a show thankfully yeah they must be difficult if i've never seen those uh in a show thankfully yeah they must be difficult if they're never given to you in a shell they must be horrible because if pistachios just crack them open yeah give you a start there you can sit there with a handful of those you can't do that with a handful of walnuts no no so off the subject of knots here

no i was i think we both dove right into that headfirst. So this whole area is in some woods, which is behind a water filtration plant. It's not a nuclear plant, but close enough. Off the Hayden Bridge Road, I guess it says here, what I found in a specific article. So now they are trying to figure out what's going on. They don't know who this person is a so they'd like to know a who their victim is and b who the fuck might have been around other than children who they probably think didn't do this they're not they're gonna go let's

hang on to the kids for a minute just for a minute but i'm gonna say it probably wasn't them this looks pretty calculated so the next day uh they're they're still looking for what they could find. I found, Jesus Christ, there's a line from this book I found. It's a book called Crime Scene. And I have the author somewhere. I'll give him a plug here. But just because I'm using this line, if nothing else, he says, quote, the lawmen rounded up what few hobos they could find for questioning. But the cops quickly decided that none of those questioned knew anything about the homicide.

So there's no other better way to say that than they're rounding up any transient, anybody in the area they could find that might, you know, without a permanent address. Well, yeah. Well, the reason is the about 600 yards away from the body, why they're looking for hobos, they found a makeshift, a makeshift campsite. So the type that, you know, transient people use if they're living for hobos, they found a makeshift campsite. So the type that transient people use if they're living from woods and going here. Just not one that was made,

not one that's made like a permanent one, just like it looked like someone was there And also not like a temporary, just like a weekend thing for a family. Exactly. This is obviously somebody that rudimentary was camping. Someone had all their stuff there.

Yeah, they didn't just have some camping supplies. We had an Easy Up and some Coleman shit. Yeah, it wasn't that at all. Yeah, they had all their stuff and a toothbrush laid on the ground and shit like that. Yeah, it was gross. A couple of cans of Dinty Moore. Oh, so much Dinty Moore in their bindles. You know, that's what it is, too.

Is there evidence of a bindle? I want bindle evidence. Did you say there's Dinty Moore? All right. I know exactly what we're looking for. First guy with a handkerchief on a stick. I think we have our killer, everybody. First guy we find.

First bindle out there. So they follow the search of the, you know, search all this. They look for anything they could find. And basically they said there's nothing in the woods that points toward it. They have a lot of evidence, but nothing that points toward suspects just here's a bunch of stuff we have yeah that shows that this person's dead and someone was over there but we don't know who so this obviously isn't we have evidence of murder there's that well she's i would say she's on yeah we'll find out what happened to her but it's definitely not a suicide got it and uh

by her disposal it's even you know obvious more obvious that there was something nefarious was going on and somebody wanted to hide what was happening here so there is a murder there is a a suicide there is a natural causes and an accident correct those are the four yeah yeah this is not this is this is definitely of the uh intentional homicidal type here by all of the wounds that we're going to find. Oh, Jesus. Well, just a different. It's a bunch of different things, which is interesting. They do the autopsy and they reveal that it's actually strangulation was the cause of death.

But they said she had been choked. At some point, they said a thin, solid item had been pressed against her throat with a lot of pressure a thin solid item remember that and uh they obviously the medical examiner had no idea maybe what that was just a thin solid item and uh yeah also uh she was struck uh several times in the head by heavy by a heavy object in the back of the head and then just basic uh bruises and kind of uh looks like there was a struggle basically here. Good old-fashioned beating is basically what it is. And choking.

And choking was the final thing with a thin, solid item, which is a weird thing to think about. Solid and thin and strangling? Worthy? Knife? Well, we'll talk about it it's it's interesting here uh post-mortem they did the the lividity test to show how long it's where the blood settles to see how long they were there uh the uh they show the uh that she had been killed where she was

found probably more than likely she was killed and moved if she was moved it was very soon after she was dead and uh you know within a minute a couple minutes and moved. If she was moved, it was very soon after she was dead. And, you know, within a minute, a couple minutes. And then that's she stayed there the rest of the time. And they the medical examiner does not believe that she was sexually assaulted at that point. But they said they were going to do lab tests to make sure that she doesn't have whatever fluids of any kind or whatever. But at this moment, it doesn't appear no outs outer outward appearances of sexual assault uh so they finally figure out uh takes them another day to figure

this out and that is because uh a couple of people from a nearby town start uh calling and uh asking uh calling the police saying they haven't spoken to their daughter in a few days and whereas you guys maybe know where my daughter is? And they're like, well, how old is she? 19. We're like, well, we got a late teens girl we just found. So maybe we can try to, did she have any of this property? And that's her, what was the last time you saw her?

Have you seen a turquoise, right? I think they said, what kind of jewelry was she wearing? I think they said a turquoise ring, this, that. Oh, no. Uh-oh, okay. She loves this lapel pin. Yeah, weoh. Okay. She loves this lapel pin. Yeah. We got to check.

She has this amazing hat pin. We have to check some dental records, and they figure out that it is 19-year-old Melissa Ann Meyer is the victim. So, I mean, it was hard to identify based on all this. But like I said, finally, the medical records confirm it. Positive identification is made. based on all this but the like i said finally the medical records confirm it positive identification is made and now uh now they have to figure out who the fuck she is who she knew what and she's 19 so when you're 19 the problem is god you know so many people it's ridiculous and like now if i you know if i hang out with somebody who's not like in my circle of like you and like three

other people that i know really your wife and your two dogs wife my two dogs my kids and like what two other people that i really hang out outside of that it's an aberrant thing for me to hang out with somebody else so if like i hung out with somebody and then the next day i was missing you'd be like oh well that that's a red flag right when you're 19 you hang out with groups of people you don't even know you just meet people and you go hang out with them and then you go over here and then you go then you hang out with your other friends and to trace a 19 year old step exhausting it would be exhausting of what they do i mean and this is before social media and any of that obviously but this is like just to trace back then they're a

person's physical steps because you just go from thing to thing very very difficult to do so they're trying to figure out if maybe if they figure out who she is they can figure out what's going on uh they learned that she was melissa she's adopted she was adopted as a child um and had recently moved uh to eugene oregon from seattle her hometown is seattle and uh she just moved to eugene she's unemployed at the time they figure out um they couldn't find out uh any evidence of her attending college or anything like that at this moment she just kind of showed up in town she's 19 that's the thing she's 19 she might have heard from a friend of hers that you know eugene is cool and she moved there you know who the hell knows we have no goddamn idea uh all they know is her last known like address that she had out for anything was in uh it was in eugene it was in on

west eighth avenue in eugene and she was last seen on may 30th in the downtown area they uh they figure out but from her parents and through some records that she had enrolled in Seattle in a drug treatment program in the last year or so. So that leads them to some acquaintances of hers that way. And they interview some of her acquaintances, and they figure out that she was, you could find her a lot at the mall in Eugene downtown. Of course. The downtown Eugene mall. Yeah, because it's 1988 you can mind you that

this is not 1988 even at 19 if she just cried the kids just go to the mall it's so weird that's where other teenagers are that's it's just weird that was their social place because it was a social place because it was like a nightclub for the daytime right that's what it was you could go to a mall at two o'clock on a saturday afternoon that was like going to the club because maybe you'll wander in the store and buy something that's what i mean yeah they just have some security guards that would yell at you for every fucking thing you did don't steal anything don't stay around other than that kids would piss a lot of money away yeah they kids piss money away especially like the food court jesus the food court would have failed without the kids pissing

money away on food court food and shit like that so uh they figure out that she used to hang out at the mall now uh apparently and by the way i have to quote this book again here i gotta give you this author's name but uh gary c king is the author's name it's crime scene i can't keep quoting it and you know making fun of the quotes a little bit too he has good information that's the thing which is some of the stuff is very very weird the way he phrases it. Quote, the mall was known to be frequented by prostitutes and was a favorite hangout for drug addicts and pushers. Aren't they all? I suppose so. What is this?

Is this like a drugstore cowboy level? Is this like a truck stop? It's a mall. It's a truck stop mall. Come on down to truck stop mall. This mall is sponsored by Pilot. There's all sorts of prostitutes and drug addicts in the mall. Come on down over to Love's mall.

That's so weird. Yeah, I don't know what's up with the damn mall, but yeah. Every food court is a subway. It's all it is is just subways. Subways. Seven of them. And a Popeye's, as Jimmy knows from this weekend. Subways. Seven of them. And a Popeye's, as Jimmy knows from this weekend.

Oh, boy. You shouldn't eat gas station Popeye's. Do not buy chicken at a gas station, ever. Well, let's, okay. You can buy chicken at a gas station.

Then when you decide after you've eaten a couple pieces that it's gross and then you put it in the back seat, three hours later when you decide

to throw it out. Don't push another one down your throat? Don't eat a piece of chicken on the way to the garbage can you were like oh man this is terrible and you opened and you're like this was so gross and then you start eating it while you walked the rest of it in a box to the garbage can like why are you eating that piece why these biscuits are hockey pucks but look the chicken's still there still fine and you ate it and then you were sick i'm not surprised by that i gotta be honest with you that's the least surprising

case of food poisoning ever you might as well have just eaten drank a bottle it said poison on it with a skull and crossbones i got news for you it was never good in the first place that's the thing you just all three of are poison. You just let the bacteria just fester for three hours. And you're like, you know what? Now that it's... Fuck that bacteria. I might have been able to fight off the three-hour-ago bacteria, but I want a challenge. My immune system needs a challenge.

Maybe the bacteria has died in this rental car over the past couple hours. My immune system... Through rural Pennsylvania. That could have. Rural Pennsylvania. That could have. Rural Pennsylvania will do it. Jesus Christ, with no goddamn exits. That place is rough. Rural Pennsylvania is an odd place.

It really is. It will kill your dignity and your will to live, but it will breed bacteria in chicken. Lots of it. So much bacteria in chicken. But what it doesn't breed is exits to turn around on the freeway because that is not there trust me we looked for them all over the place not available 22 miles not fucking available so uh this place she likes to go to the prostitute drug addict mall and pusher yeah drug addict slash pusher prostitute mall a favorite hangout yeah the push-a-man's there let me go stand outside the chess king

and see if i can pull some tricks what the fuck i don't what what prostitutes hang out at the mall first of all tricks at hot topic i've never there was no hot topic back then turning tricks at merry-go-round back then what are you talking about i'm trying to think of 80 stores i'm sure the wet seal was around. Probably. Who knows? Spencer's was for sure there, right? Spencer's had to be there, yeah.

Yeah. That's where you're going to... When a mall was created, that's when the first Spencer's was there. I'm sure. The very first mall had one. It had to. I feel like they built the mall to house the Spencer's. To house the Spencer's.

There's a store. They won't do a standalone. Very strange, yeah. They'll only do it if they're attached to like i don't know 80 other stores it's really weird and it has to be air conditioned there has to be benches for the guys to sit on it's really super okay some shitty diamonds to be bought all right we'll put a bunch of women's clothing stores in it it'd be perfect all right good we'll have one store that sears in a bloomingdale on opposite sides and we'll have one store that just sells lotion and that'll be packed and then we'll have one store that sears in a bloomingdale on opposite sides and we'll have one store that just sells lotion and that'll be packed and then we'll have another store that has fucking pianos for some reason even though no one will ever be looking for a piano when they come here no one

will ever buy one at a mattress store because you're not looking for that either when you go there's for sure going to be one of those stores where you look at the picture for a long time and then you see the picture oh yeah nobody's ever bought one of those pictures oh you know those have never been in somebody's house never oh you never. You know what else we could do? In the middle, where everybody's walking between the stores, we can put little stores in there. That way, the people at those little stores could fucking clothesline you as you go by

and force you to buy cell phone cases. What's a cell phone case? You'll see. Don't worry. You'll see. Trust me. Trust me, it's going to work. It will be as useless as every other fucking center store.

Silver-plated jewelry. Silver-plated jewelry. Where else are they going to sell silver-plated jewelry? God damn it. It's going to turn their wrist green. They need it. So she goes there. So they talk about that.

They're like, okay, maybe she's at the mall. Maybe she went to the mall. Maybe we can figure out from around there. We can go scope it out and see if there's people looking for teenage girls to kill at the mall. I she went to the mall. Maybe we can figure out from around there if there's, we can go scope it out and see if there's people looking for teenage girls to kill at the mall. I mean,

who the hell knows? But I mean, at the mall, it could be anybody. Who knows? She could have talked to one of a million other. So many push-em-in.

And teenagers, again, if she was 35, you'd go, did she talk to anybody? Would she have, she wouldn't have left with that person.

Teenager, you'd go, would she talk to anybody? Yeah, she'd talk to 100 people. Talk to every fucking person. Did she leave with, of course she'd leave

with those people. Yeah, that's what teenagers do if you hang out with if you're a teenager you hang out and you meet at least when i was a teenager you hung out and you met somebody you talked for 15 minutes and if one of you had weed and be like oh i'm gonna go smoke a joint over in the woods or something you'd be like fucking cool and everybody would go you just met this person and you're gonna walk into the woods with them to do drugs literally so stand up because yeah it's cool we're all teenagers it's fine what's that's how you think so that's their their thought right away is if they met her met if they if it was if her killer was at from the mall it's probably a young

person it's probably not an older person because that wouldn't have nobody would look twice at that it would have been very normal so they look uh she had no arrest record or no known involvement in any criminal activity other than the uh the you know drug rehab enrollment that didn't that wasn't like court didn't seem to be court mandated or anything like that just seemed to be something she did uh she went to the mall all the time so they didn't know why they were trying to figure that out did she just like to hang out there was she a window shopper i mean who the hell knows so uh the problem is at this point the second this gets out 19 year old woman found in the woods everybody is talking about is it the green river killer coming back again because the

green river killer at this point had not been caught yet oh no this is still the green river killer was still the boogeyman of the northwest where, you know, if they found a woman that was under the age of 60 dead on the side of anything. In the woods. Just a wave. Green River killer. Yeah. Maybe the Green River killer.

They just found one. They're like, this is probably him. Yeah. So they wondered that. Everybody thought of that. Husband's like, no, I butchered my wife last night. Well, we have to make sure that we have to eliminate the Green River. That's the thing.

Well, listen, I know you found the knife in your... I don't believe your story at all, sir. All right, we found her blood on his shoes. That's a thing. But I think this Green River killer could be crafty. He's crafty, I'm telling you. I think he... I see him throwing blood all over the place.

Hear me out now. I think he snuck in. He wore the husband's shoes. Right. And then snuck back in put the shoes down nice and tight and then you say who's the killer

well he's got his blood on his shoe who's the killer now and then obviously he's the killer in Green River Killer he's just walking away just laughing

and skipping he's stopping at Subway on the way home eating a turkey sandwich with blood all over his hands he's like it's alright I just did something else and they're like

that's fine because there ain't no blood on your shoes now what's gonna happen then see that's the Green River Killer every time right now damn it how many people is he how many hundreds is he killed how many are we gonna let him get away with let me tell you uh the problem is also that she um is not a prostitute she that's not her she's 19 she's a 19 year old girl but if she was if she just moved here they're like you know they hate to say it but

they're like did she maybe drift into she could have drifted into drugs very quickly and she could have possibly that could have led to this which led to this which led to that they don't know uh but they obviously that's what the they're gonna look in other avenues first before they decide she must have been a prostitute killed by the green river killer. I can see that. Yeah, but she's found in an area that was not too close, but in a proximity that could be considered near other victims, like in a certain way here. One of the police captains said, quote, we don't have any evidence that leads us to believe she was a prostitute

or engaged in anything of that nature. Obviously, there's a lot of things we don't know about her right now. And another one, a few days later, they kind of got away from the Green River thing, and we'll talk about why. Dick Larson, who was the spokesman for the Green River Task Force, he said, quote, there are young women found dead all over this country, and we aren't naive enough to believe that the Green River killer is the only person who murders young females and leaves them outside. There's nothing at this point to link the murder or murders in Oregon with our investigation.

There would be absolutely no reason for us to send anyone down there to cut past all the blue smoke and mirrors. We're just not interested unless something else turns up. So that's not the Green River Killer, everybody. That's there. Three days after she is found on Friday, June 3rd, a relative of a 17-year-old girl named Candace Michelle Roy contacts Eugene Police and reports are missing. And normally there's a weight on missing persons. But because of a 19-year-old being found dead two days before, they're a little touchy about it.

And they go, let's go look for her now. Let's just let's just go ahead and look for her now. So they do that. They start looking around for her. They learn that she lives near Santa Clara, which is a neighborhood in kind of north side of eugene up there it's a woody area a lot of woods got it most of this fucking place outside of the downtown blocks it's a lot of woods is what i'm getting at here uh this is a no out no arrest record no criminal activity same type of thing uh you know trying to figure it out uh they do end up finding her

on monday they find her partially clad, some clothes missing under some trees about four blocks from her house. It was a wooded area about five miles from where Melissa Ann Myers was found. So this is looking bad now. They're finding that they and a relative positively ID'd her. And, yeah, so they're worried about that. So they're looking into this. They're taking them as separate cases right now, but they're also concerned that they might not be, obviously, if they're within a few miles of each other here.

So now back to Melissa Ann Myers, the crime scene there. They found in the campsite that they found the you know transient campsite they found cooking pots utensils multi-colored candles arranged in a circle and a machete a machete now machete could be construed i'm just you know i've seen machetes and they look like long uh they look like thin, solid objects. Yeah, that's a very thin and solid movies. Yeah, it's thin and solid. It would be how I would describe it. It's a thin, solid thing.

Very sharp. It's a goddamn sword. Pretty much here. So they do some investigating and they find some young ladies come forward here. And they find some young ladies come forward here. These young ladies come forward and they speak to detectives. And one is a woman named Robin Newman. She works with two guys that she knows here.

And another one also said that she knows two guys that met Melissa Ann Meyer at the mall downtown where she hangs out. And she said that she knows for a fact that Meyer accompanied these two guys to the woods where these two guys were hanging out. So they know that for a fact. So obviously the police are very curious to speak to these two young men who were last seen taking this young lady into the woods from the mall uh which is odd so uh they they find this robin newman who worked with these guys and these guys are a couple of young men named john ray jones who's 17 years old and jason wayne rose yeah this is confusing john wayne john ray jones jason wayne rose uh who's 19 years old uh they find her or they find them uh they look they're looking into them jones they find his last address was a trailer in uh in eugene yeah there uh he graduated from the opportunity center alternative school earlier this year yeah from what they can understand this seems to be a school for fuck-ups more than it's for like it's academic yeah it's not for like uh oh we need a little academic yeah it's basically

you keep getting arrested at school for having fucking weed in your locker so you can't come here anymore right that's what it is so they send them there we had this every what was the school what was your school what was the alternative school uh the kids got kicked out into yeah ours was beta i remember it's called beta oh he's going to beta now you're like oh christ what do you do stab a teacher you had to like stab a teacher in the face to get put there god damn and i forget the name of it but there's i know exactly where it is yeah everyone has that school where they're like oh i'm studying transmissions and you're like you're in 10th grade what are you talking about it's called like opportunities or some shit there's always some shit like that so uh yeah this he was uh and then

they said so yeah he was scheduled to graduate he'd been there for a couple years and uh he also knew jason wayne rose who was there uh rose had a lot of problems now the other guy here john ray jones john jones doesn't have a lot of problems He's just kind of a he's more of a follower. He's known as than anything else. Whereas Rose has more problems and has had some legal issues. He was in the past 10 months before this. Jason Rose was released three times from the Lane County Jail under what they called the matrix system, which is designed to alleviate overcrowding and all that sort of thing.

He was rearrested at least twice after showing up for court appearances, but was matrixed, as they called it, out of the jail each time. That's ridiculous. They give him like a point value and danger value. Yeah. If he's not like a violent criminal, they're like, well, we don't have room for him. He's least likely to be dangerous, I guess, to other people. The guy's got weed. Get him out of here.

Yeah, the last time he was released was April 2nd, 1988, which was two months before this. Pretty much exactly. He's got a lot of interesting accusations on him. There's a case pending on Rose at this point for three counts of first degree forgery, menacing with a rifle and pointing a firearm at someone. Yeah, that's probably the same one. Yeah, it's all it's all in one thing. So he's got charges for all this shit pending at this moment. So they're like, well, we'd like to talk to him anyway.

And then his buddy, too, if they were seen with Melissa and Meyer. So the and the I guess the forgery was a separate thing from the menacing and pointing those were separate so he didn't like you know point a rifle at someone and then forge their name in the checkbook or anything shit like that so you hold still while i write this you don't you you put that it's moving but you hold the check down because it moves when i'm trying to forge the damn just this goddamn pen don't work now. Give me a give me a pen to shit. Now it's burglary and forgery.

Damn it. No, that was a separate thing. The firearms charges come from June 1987, which him and three friends threatened a Springfield man with a rifle, a billy club and nunchucks. Jesus. In an attempt to steal his car. They try. It's menacing as fuck. I wonder if it was a progression of weaponry,

or if they just like, which one are you afraid of? If they were like, you know, yeah, that's what I mean, nunchucks. And they were like, I ain't afraid of no nunchucks. How about a billy club? He's like, I'll kick your little ass. And he's like, rifle? And he's like, all right, here's the piece. I don't know if maybe one of those happened.

It's all yours. Or if they popped out like a ninja squad, one with a rifle, one swinging nunchucks, and one holding a billy club over his head in an attempt to shock and awe the man into giving up the car keys. Give me that 87 grand, damn, god damn it. They're like ninja turtles. They're like ninja turtles. Each one's got its own specific weapon.

It's a little weapon. That's what I mean. Maybe that's what they were trying to do, make their own little band of vigilante criminals where they all had their own weapon their own move they popped out one at a time and did like some special karate move yeah that's what i mean one did like this was full of that karate stance the other had like a different specific color ralph macchio crane the billy club he pulls out of his ass oh you know it's uh oh he's that's why he has a billy it's like i get the billy club everybody listen that's for me i don't care what anybody else wants i get the or well i guess both nunchucks either way either way but i'm getting something

like that i want the rifle yeah i'm not interested so uh he said rose at the time jason rose when he was arrested for this he told the cops that he had a severe drug dependency problem was his excuse for this i just did so much drugs so in november 1987 jason rose's mother uh got a restraining order against him after he became and this is an 18 year old kid she's got a restraining order against after he became violent and threatened to kill her, which is a problem. That's an issue. You can't threaten to kill your mom.

Yeah, you can't threaten to kill your mom and be violent with mom. And then you have, now you don't even have mom bailing you out. Now you got problems. He's already kind of a dick. That's what I mean. But before that, he probably had mom on his side at least, too. Now it's like, well, I'm done with him, too. They said that according to a petition for the restraining order, this is what the mother wrote, that Rose was, quote, becoming a progressively becoming more uncontrollable.

She's got problems here. They said that they also in the reports noted that Rose was interested in occult practices. Also, that's the thing that they're going to try to push hard on this, too. And we'll talk about that. And now they said. So when that came up reporters were asking the police is it a satanic killing did this kid that you're talking to do it and the the one of the policemen said quote i'm not really in a position to discuss motives we're just too early

in the investigation to talk about motives right now they're getting into it pretty damn quick though uh the the robin newman woman that they talked to, she says that Rose told her, Jason Rose told her that he knew something about that dead girl in the woods is death, basically. And not only do we know something about it, me and John Jones, the problem is, okay, let me level with you. I told you I know something about it,

but I actually know more than I let on about it. You see, the problem is we had to kill her oh we had to kill her both of us that was the thing we had we didn't have a choice uh in order we had to get money yeah um you see she was a high dollar target yeah that's what she said she said he said rose told this robin newman that melissa quote had a price on her head oh you know 19 year old girls who moved to Eugene, Oregon, obviously they're, what are they? She's had to be at least five, six million in debt

to the Colombian cartel. Huge targets. Huge targets. Like I said, the Colombians, I mean, they're known for their huge drug, the mafia. Who knows? She's a big gambler, I'm sure. She's on football every weekend.

I know six of them. That's the thing. So obviously she's going to get whacked on the street. It's going to happen. So she said it was a price on her head. So, you know, what choice did they have? This story is weird. Oh, it gets weirder.

They needed money, obviously. And he said that, you know, this was the easiest way to get money because they knew her. They met her at the mall and shit like that. So he told her that it's quote easy to kill a friend especially if you know them and they don't know what's going on because you can get close to a friend which is basically exactly what henry hill said in goodfellas your your murders come with smiles so your friends are the he's got the same attitude

which is weird for an 18 year old kid scary for an 18 year old kid yeah other than you know an experienced mafioso which you would expect that right from a 60 year old italian for a 18 year old kid yeah other than you know an experienced mafioso which you would expect that right from a 60 year old italian man who's gone through a lot of cold hearted fuck a lot of criminal activity and murder to keep himself out of prison but a child not so much or a young man not so much here uh so yeah it's easy to kill her so he was like yeah we had to first of all the money and if it's going to be easy money, Jesus, she trusts us for Christ's sake. She won't even run away if we come near her. It's crazy. She'll let us do that.

So now, this woman also, Robin Newman, she also says that on numerous occasions, she saw Jason Rose and John Jones with rune stones. What are those? Okay, we'll talk about that in a second and that rose and jones would throw the rune stones on the ground and then with the aid of a book interpret their meaning oh it's just as stupid as it sounds i've heard of that before yeah it's a it's any type of stone or any type of little thing uh fucking scripted gypsy shit yeah that's well yeah well that's a totally separate culture than that but it's i get what you're saying you're lumping it under the umbrella

of yeah it's it's it's exactly that's kind of the kind of shit it is it's and it goes across a lot of different belief systems of you know different things we're not going to get into which ones because we'll have people tweeting us going actually i'm a wiccan and we know not that wiccans do that but i mean whoever the fuck group we say they'll be like actually the thing blah blah blah we i get it we don't know shit about it black magic weird shit i guess the tradition from what i got here this is straight off of wikipedia because i don't know shit about it and i was like we're going to get to the most basic side of this here uh began in the fourth century and was big until about the 12th century uh but uh it's kind of the viking a viking

age type of thing here a lot of the rune stones were located in scandinavia but there's also other shit and it kind of spread from there uh the rune stones are often memorials to dead people they're usually brightly colored and shit like that because they would make uh they would make like uh almost like uh uh gravestones with big ones and shit like that. And then they would use rune stones and throw them on the ground and then decipher the meat. These are the smaller stones, obviously, that come from that. You don't have like 12 people following you around with headstones? Just giant ones, trucks behind you.

Toss that big one. So you throw them on the ground and then this somehow divines what you're supposed to do based on an interpretation through a book of whatever i don't understand so anybody obviously this is people that have trouble making decisions this is obviously less than scientific well it's this and then they shake a magic eight ball and they try to decide throw some chicken well and then they let a coin flip be the tiebreaker that's how they work it so i feel like it doesn't matter so uh uh the the court this is how the court documents uh says this this is how they define rune stones we understand rune stones to be small stones marked with runes characters r-u-n-e by the way characters of early alphabets used by germanic tribes and people found in the scandinavian

north and remote parts of sweden uh although their primary purpose was to give spoken language a fixed form throughout their history runes have commonly been considered associated with magic so that's the type of thing that they're saying is this must be a satanic thing it's you know maybe it's some black magic shit they throw stones on the ground and said they're gonna kill a woman for money okay now we're talking okay so uh another woman here janice johnson also saw rose using rune stones so this is he's oh he's ruining it constantly this guy's a rune pro he's tossing some runes on the floor all over the place he's for his dead homies he don't give a fuck he's just boom rooms on the the ground. So he he told her that he used the stones to find out, quote, whom he would kill next. And that sometimes he had to, quote, hurt good people or kill them because the stones told him.

Right. So, you know, we're going to do when stones tell you to do something. I mean, you don't fucking not do it. You fucking do it, dude. Obviously. That's what I do. I mean, I have several things that I do. I carry around Cheez-Its.

Yeah. And I throw them on the ground. And if they land more salty sides up than non-salty sides up, then I have to hurt or kill good people. I'm very similar with Nilla wafers. It's a true thing. Yeah. You should try it with Nilla wafers.

The round piece, when that's on the ground that's that's sinister shit that's that's what i'm saying dude they don't know shit about this man your room your room side up that's that's that's happened on your nilla runes yeah those are good stuff i like your nilla runes those are hot shit so uh i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try

to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I'm telling you, bro, I bust out another button. So Janice Jones saw him doing this, like we said. And there's another woman here, Michelle Slagle, who was Jones's friend, John Ray Jones, the other boy here, the 17 year old. This was her his friend. She said that that Rose and Jones talked to her after Melissa's body was found about Melissa.

And Jones told Melissa told Michelle Slagle that he and Rose had killed her. She said that they told her that they, quote, beat the shit out of her. They choked her, kicked her ribs in, and that he, quote, used a machete to choke her. So, yeah. That's a knife. That's a thin, solid knife. Thin, solid thing here. Object, yes.

Object. Slagle also, this is another thing, because slagle at this time i think was going out with john jones they were like had some you know precarious boyfriend girlfriend shit going on she says that she identifies a ring that john uh that rose gave her and another ring and necklace that she received from jones so rose gave her uh sorry rose gave her a ring and jones gave her a necklace and a ring and those ended up uh both being the victims belongings oh that's fucked up so they took some of the jewelry they left some of the jewelry there yeah and they gave some of the jewelry like to their girlfriends pretty stuff uh yeah rose gave his girlfriend another one of the rings

another so uh yeah and then also rose wore one of the necklaces uh as well gross so they left some behind whatever they didn't want they took some gave it to their girlfriends and then he wore something himself it was just like yeah like he just stopped at a thrift store yeah and just picked up a bunch of stuff yeah yeah you know how it is that's how it is fat herringbone let him slide no days jimmy yeah man that's a mob deep lyric for any people out there uh june 10th Let him slide. No days, Jimmy. Yeah, man.

It's a mob deep lyric for all you people out there. June 10th. Vicky threw it in Gimme the Loot, too. Yeah. Herringbone and bamboo. I think Temperature's Rising is what I was referring to. No, it wasn't Temperature's Rising. I don't know.

We're going to get into it. June 10th here. June 10th, the cops obviously are focusing a little bit of their attention on Jones jones and rose at this point and they find out that they have gone to arizona what they have taken up why are half the people that run away they're always found here why do they come here because mexico's close maybe that's why they're on their way you would think that's what it is but that's actually not what it is this is way stupider than really trying to get away away to Mexico after you've murdered a young lady and then told people about it and given them jewelry and shit. That would be honestly probably the smarter thing.

I would say, well, at least there's a B to their fucking A. ABQ cookies. That's what we have here. Family in Havasu. It's another ABQ cookie situation where it makes no sense. There's no A to B to C. It's just like, we'll do this we'll do that hey grandma and grandpa are going on vacation to arizona let's go with them is that

what happened literally what happened went on vacation with her grandpa let's talk about this grandma grandpa oftentimes bring noah's so let's go hey we gotta do it uh they locate them in show low oh which is up north in arizona, up in the White Mountains. They find them there on June 13th. There, they find them at a, I believe, what kind of motel? A Best Western. Yeah. Best Western. A piece of shit.

They find them at Encholo. They arrest them here. They knock on the door, and they're with Jones' grandparents vacationing. They were on their way to visit Jones' stepfather, and their car broke down over the weekend. In Show Low. Yeah, so they had to stay in Show Low. So they figured that out. They traced...

The police sucks. That's terrible. They trace them down through there. They get a bunch of cops to go to the Best Western. They say they, quote, this is the police officer, quote, We went up to the room and knocked, and one of them came to the door. We introduced ourselves and placed them under immediate arrest. That was it.

No incidents. They were like, hi, we're the police. You guys are fucking idiots who murdered people and left a bunch of evidence leading, like, basically a trail of breadcrumbs or millowafers or whatever the hell. Is that a herringbone on your necklace? All the way to show load, dummy. Get in the car, stupid. And they're, oh, okay.

So they did that. Also, Jones's grandparents were in the motel room hi there young man oh you're what now it's gotta be awkward wow is that awkward they arrest them for what nice young boys coming on a vacation with their grab nope they are murders uh they found no weapons during the arrest but other evidence like a herringbone yeah not a real herringbone but a necklace and you know shit the evidence of of her stuff uh they said so they're they're looking into it the investigator said quote the two suspects in this case are pretty much inseparable we're not exactly sure what their relationship was to melissa they may have known each other from their associate associations on the mall so either

hanging out at the mall apparently just so it's a very weird way to say associations at them on the mall on the mall that's bizarre that's the weirdest way to say it they might have known them from the fucking mall right they both stopped at the sabaro's for a shitty slice of pizza at the same time i don't know maybe they were playing rampage next to each other i have no idea after burner there's a line you know what i mean you socialize with people sometimes that double dragon will get you a nice lady oh it goes yeah that's how it works jesus christ so the assistant uh district attorney said that they uh they uh uh they do learn that at this point that through some investigation that meyer and Candace Michelle Roy, the other victim they found, knew some of the same people.

There's had some some overlapping circles here, too, which they're like, that's interesting. They do say, quote, we don't have any direct evidence linking these cases. There are certain common factors that existed. That's it. So, of course, they advise Rose of his Miranda rights, which he says, I absolutely understand. uh of course they advise rose of his miranda rights which he says i absolutely understand and of course i'll talk yeah of course i'll wave them let's talk you know what i need to explain my way out of this which i can clear this up you guys guys if i just talk huge misunderstanding hear me out huge misunderstanding oh my god you know

you look for shit in the woods necklace find it in the woods somewhere so it happens it's totally not me guys chill yeah uh no he said i'll i'll do that he says i will absolutely talk to you about melissa's death uh he tells the police quote they go so you know what's going on here what happened did you know melissa blah blah blah and he took some time and he said, quote, all right, guys, I got to let you in on something. This is my favorite when they have a story.

I love this. Buckle up. He said, now, guys, he said, the rune said that if we didn't kill Melissa, we would die. Yeah.

So, I mean. Can I go back to Arizona? The grandparents are going to the Grand Canyon tomorrow. I'd really like to hit that. I've never seen it. I'd really like to hit that up so can i join him the car's probably still broken down i can still make it right uh so he also gives several versions of the cause of the death uh first he says this is the first he goes look guys i i knew her yeah i met her at the mall and

all that shit but i don't know i didn't even know she died other than the newspaper i don't know anything i heard about it but i don't know how she died then he said well you know what happened i saw the i saw melissa actually matter of fact i think it was the day she died i'm pretty sure the day she went missing i saw her but i don't know i should just saw her walking by yeah i mean i don't know how she died obviously uh then he said well as a matter of fact hold on all right guys listen okay i've said some things that i said i knew her and i said some things that aren't true yeah all right so i'm gonna i'm gonna level with you now um there's a there's a tree branch yeah and uh we were in the woods and

we're just hanging out and it was super out of nowhere this branch just fell and it hit her on the head and she died oh i mean it just fell right out of the tree and she was dead it's a great story so we got super scared and we just like pushed her and then covered her up with some bushes so you know how that is right so can i get back with john's grandparents now they were like i don't think so next yeah if they just kept saying i don't believe you i feel like he could have gone all night. Eventually, it would have been like, okay, the starting offensive line for the Pittsburgh Steelers is there. Now, it sounds weird. I understand.

I knew it was them because they had their uniforms on. I understand. Weird, right? Okay. But hear me out. We don't believe you. Okay. So it wasn't the Steelers.

It wasn't the Steelers. You know how we were. were okay so you've seen cartoons right i didn't think bugs bunny was real he is apparently lives in the woods total dick okay let me tell you what happened really stretched out yellow guys came out of the woods super strange yeah do you know uh a a jimbo or a kearney by any chance is there a nelson months on your radar at all because i think you should talk to those young men very much up to something at all times uh now next one he said okay guys fine nobody fucking believes me anything i say okay fine here's what i did i was messing around in

the woods because you know as we all do i had a wooden spear oh all right i'm carrying around a wooden spear like you do in the woods and i'm fucking around and uh what happened is uh the spear stuck in a tree branch at that point and i was messing around was poking things and it's stuck in a tree branch and then the tree branch broke and that fell on her and killed her and then we got scarred and we buried her okay so it was a tree branch that killed her but it was an accident that i speared it off a tree okay like a salmon out of the river and then it fell upon her and right clearly i mean i couldn't just call the cops or an ambulance or anything she needed to be pushed into a hole and covered with a board and some brushes we don't believe you oh shit next story okay all right listen okay guys yeah all right you listening to this one yeah okay

it's at that point that they go hey chief uh your partner john jones he just confessed to the oh shit so you know yeah it's kind of like on the wire yeah when they have the two kids in there that's actually the uh the uh uh uh copy machine trick oh season five of the wire they did that in the show in the wire in season five yeah they get these two guys separate and they play this trick and they're like man he goes why don't you just tell us the truth the guy sitting there in the interrogation room is like i don't know why you just don't tell us the truth man he goes he goes we know everything we know you shot this guy down on this street we know what happened he goes man your man's in the other room right now he goes he's talking he's singing your name he's saying all this shit he said so much goddamn shit man

he was so fucking helpful we even went to mcdonald's for him he goes what double quarter pounder large fry yeah dr pepper and the dude's like starting to look like what the fuck and he goes that's how your man rolls right that's what he gets right and the guy's like you could see he's like that's his fucking order i picked that shit up for him before you could see him pissed off and just at that point that in the hallway that one detective's like okay now and they send the other kid past the interrogation room eating french fries and he's just walking by eating french fries and you hear the kid sitting down he's like what the fuck man what the fuck and then they close the door and he's like oh man jesus christ but he didn't say shit and uh but

yeah i didn't see no the kid didn't say nothing then they cut to the kid the door and he's like, oh man, Jesus Christ. But he didn't say shit. But yeah, the kid didn't say nothing. Then they cut to the kid eating french fries. He's like, I appreciate the McDonald's but I still ain't telling you all motherfuckers nothing. Then he's just eating the McDonald's

but this kid in here is like, oh shit. And then they hook him up to put him on the copy machine and the truth, truth, lie thing. Is this your name? Do you live here? Did you kill Pookie

down on 44? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Lie. No. You lying motherfucker. And he's like, oh oh man i should have did that shit myself i should have never brought that lying motherfucker with me blah blah that was the end of it so yeah genius so here though uh this act this idiot actually did confess to murder and yeah the room he's 17 years old so uh and probably not the brightest bulb going and uh he also

implicates jason rose as well and they said that uh uh he said jones said that he killed the victim or that jones killed the victim or i'm sorry rose says that it's jones that killed him okay you got me yeah i was trying to protect him with the tree branch story obviously that was silly but it's my friend you gotta protect your friends 19 year olds like look i'm just an exception he went crazy he just killed her 17 year old went nuts he went nuts and so i'm the i'm the i'm the you know an accessory i'm just an accessory uh he said look i didn't want to kill the victim here in this case i don't want to kill melissa uh but here's what i did i put her into a choke hold which he called a sleeper hold type maneuver like wrestling is how he put it so that tells you his maturity level uh he says until she

became unconscious and then after that he laid her on the ground he said then at that point uh john jones came in and quote whacked her on the back of the neck twice with a machete oh my god which is brutal jesus christ he just hacked at her hacked at her uh yeah back of the neck twice with a machete. Oh, my God. Which is brutal. Jesus Christ. He just hacked at her? Hacked at her. Yeah, had to hack at her with a machete. While she's unconscious. While she's unconscious at the back of her neck

after she's been put out in a sleeper hold, like Adrian Adonis in WrestleMania III. They didn't shave her head, thankfully. So then at this point, Jason jason rose says that he was that uh the problem was this is why we did this okay melissa i didn't want to tell you guys this uh melissa is a black witch yeah that's the problem right she's a black witch and we don't mean black like racially she's a black witch uh you know the most dangerous ones yeah that's the thing and uh she's a friend of this guy i know who threatened to kill me yeah he's a warlock and then she comes around

a black witch right obviously sent her his minion what am i gonna do to come kill me and then i throw the stones on the ground and they go well you're gonna die if you don't do this so what the fuck else am i supposed to do the fuck is going on i mean seriously bro i mean you get my situation right so i'll be back with the grandparents. We're supposed to go to Denny's tonight. I'm super psyched. How do we get to this weird shit? It gets worse.

He says that, listen, John Jones, my partner here, he wanted Melissa dead. And so, you know, after I put her in a sleeper hold, Jones said quote oh my god jesus christ quote i give you this sacrifice in the name of ariak i guess that's some sort of satanic shit i don't know what i know i'm probably just saying it wrong uh a-r-i-o-c-h look it up i don't know ariak yeah uh he said that then they placed a spear across her neck uh across melissa's neck and stood on both ends of it one stood on either end of it for 10 minutes wow to make sure that you know holy shit that's a long time that's a long time uh just to make sure yeah you know she wasn't breathing that's a host set that's an entire host set including comment cards and everything so including intro of the future now uh he also rose

tells the police that uh he said listen there's she didn't really struggle much while we were killing her because i told her she was a black witch i said look we're killing you because you're listen stop struggling you're a fucking black witch Don't you know what's going on here? Obviously, no. You're a black witch. Yeah. Duh. And, quote, we're giving you the greatest honor to sit at the right hand of Ariok in hell as a sacrifice.

Wow. That's what he said. He's like, so, I mean, we told her that, so... Everything's good now. You know. Right. I'll be going back to... Gotta run.

Gotta run. Back to show. We're gonna go find more black witches. I know. So, she's a black witch. And she said that she stopped struggling when he told her that. She was like, oh, yeah, cool. Like, yeah, my bad.

What am I thinking? Like, struggle, obviously. Like, it's your natural reaction. But I forgot I'm a black witch. It's a great honor. I'm going to be, you know. Don't forget to rob my corpse. I'm going to sit at the right hand.

Yeah. Oh, by the way, yeah, please feel free to give all my jewelry to your shitty girlfriends. Please. Oh, by the way, yeah, please feel free to give all my jewelry to your shitty girlfriends. Please. Now, then they removed her jewelry and, quote, sacrificed it to some god. Not a particular one. He doesn't have a specific deity in mind. Just some god.

There's a god somewhere. The god of 19-year-old mall jewelry that you steal. He then... The god of the pagoda. The god of the piercing pagoda. That's perfect. Oh, mighty piercing pagoda. Oh, the big pagoda.

Oh, God. The big pagoda. The big pagoda. That's what they call him. That sounds like a god or at minimum a baseball player's nickname. The big pagoda. How you doing? The Big Pagoda.

The Big Pagoda is from right outside of Philly. The Big Pagoda hit 41 home runs this year. Ian's going to see the Big Pagoda tonight. How did they not put the Big Pagoda on the All-Star team? Unbelievable. He's got 27 home runs. It's only July 2nd. Are you kidding? He's not going to make the big pagoda on the all-star team unbelievable he's got 27 home runs it's only july 2nd he's not gonna make the fucking team a load of shit the goddamn pagoda so after they worship at the pagoda here um i don't even know what to say here they then this is again just

one thing is stupider than the next then they say they removed her pant her blouse and ripped her pants to make it appear as though she had been raped yeah uh which there is no sexual assault she was not raped but they uh and then they put her body in the shrubs and covered it with a board that's his story so just wasted a young girl. Yeah, no reason. You know, black witches and such. It happens. I mean, someone's a black witch and the piercing God tells you that you must pagoda her now. You do it. So, I mean, what the fuck?

So, now they say, okay, they take him back to Oregon and they go, okay, we're going to take both of you idiots to the scene of the crime. Show us how it happened. Just do a reenact. Oh, this should be fun. They're so dumb. They go, okay. Cool. They happened. Yeah. Just do it. They're so dumb. They go, OK, cool. They still haven't asked for a lawyer.

They're doing it. They literally have them dancing around on videotape in the woods, like reenacting a fucking. This is a tottering with a spear. And it's insane. Yeah. Like, OK, now what happened? Who did what now?

OK, you pretend that's the victim. Like, that's what they're doing. They take them to the scene of the crime. They both they're both this stupid agree to reen's the victim. Like, that's what they're doing. They take him to the scene of the crime. They both, they're both this stupid, agree to reenact the murder. So the three reenactments were recorded on a single cassette. That'll be important later.

The first reenactment was Rose alone. The second one was Jones alone. And the third one was a team effort. They said, you know what, let's Cheech and Chong this thing and go at it as a pair. Yeah, you know what, I don't like my act, don't like you or your act if we put it together i think we got something so ain't that a peach they used a mannequin to portray the victim in all three

accounts okay so uh the wow this is so this is gross this is insane. So the first reenactment here, this is just Rose. Now, he says that he and Jones and Melissa went to the campsite that Rose and Jones had set up earlier. They set up this campsite. Apparently, Jones was living with Rose for a while here, and then they've been staying in the woods for a few days. I don't know what is happening here uh apparently uh jones says that i'm sorry rose in his reenactment says that he and melissa went into the bushes to have sex yeah that's his story we went in the bushes to have sex he said about 45 minutes later he 45 minutes 45 minutes of fucking of wood sex you don't fuck in the woods for 45 no i've been a teenager

doing stuff in the woods and it's i mean you make out for a while but if you're going in specifically to get woods fucking it's it's you're not it's over as any human i think you're gonna really make this a quick transaction you're not gonna get comfortable with your dick out amongst bears for 45 minutes mosquitoes yeah oh boy t Yeah. Oh, boy. Ticks. Chiggers. Oh, the chiggers are everywhere. Any fucking insect. I don't want my dick out amongst that. No.

And then everything else, too, is going to be exposed. No. No good. No good. So, yeah, he says that after 45 minutes, Rose says he heard voices and footsteps. He thought that it was the guy who was looking for him that wanted to kill him, a guy named Vaughn Shelton. He said, I thought it was Vaughn Shelton looking for me.

So I left to find Jones to tell him, hey, bro, it's time to throw down, bro, a high Satan priest or whatever. So he said he and Jones uh got themselves some spears yeah at that point and began looking for von shelton looking for him in the woods yeah yeah hunting hunting him down with spears so they should have tried the burn the controlled burn method they could have burned him out to the other side speared him as he ran that would have worked you gotta spoke him see is the native wisdom they don't know it that's the problem they should have read a couple of books fuckers read a book i don't think they gave him those at the alternative school

they didn't have many of those books there so uh apparently they say that soon after this uh that that uh melissa came up behind rose and startled him so he got startled and went oh jesus and turned around and because he was scared he like pointed a spear at her and threatened her with it it's at that point that he said that jones you know john turned to him and said quote should we kill her now what should we kill her now and uh rose at that point said quote not yet but i want the bitch dead the runes said so and quote we don't disobey the runes we don't disobey the runes jimmy which of these two is the dumber one that's the well you know what i gotta say see this episode i struggled with it because i was like it's not in our parameter

of people. I don't want to bitch. I don't want to hear people on Twitter. Well, actually, Springfield, I don't want to hear it and all that. But then I said, you know what? We don't disobey the runes, Jimmy. The runes told us to do this. So we're doing this episode.

Wow. I will not, you know, runes be damned. Who am I? This is disappointing. To besmirch a rune. you know runes be damned who am i this is disappointing to besmirch a rune how do these two throw some stones on the ground and one is dumber than the next to go whatever you say those mean i'm in you don't disappoint the runes jimmy or disobey the runes or disappoint them the runes would be very disappointed if you disobey i don't know which one is dumber i'm gonna guess that

jones is dumber because so far rose is making it sound like jones is the main he's the one going should we kill her now but then again jones on his own word said i i want the bitch dead right the rune said so and we don't disobey the runes like he's almost like saying like well obviously i couldn't control it if the rune said so i had to do it like the cops would understand that oh he said there's a rune thing so should we let him all right chief we'll cut him loose as human beings this is fucking embarrassing this is absolutely terrible so he then said that melissa told him and jones that they actually were right and she was working for vaughn shelton they're right yeah this is they they got her plot now

i'm sure this is after beating her and torturing her, she would have said anything. You know what I mean? Anything that makes her to go home. That's why people confess to fucking murder because they're just tired. Now, if you take a teenage girl and threaten her in the woods with spears and beat the shit out of her, you'll probably

admit to anything. And a goddamn machete. Yeah. It's like reservoir dogs where they're like, he's gonna admit to setting the fucking Chicago fire if if you beat him enough this isn't this doesn't help any not good information no uh yeah that's it's not great so uh yeah so she said you know he said that's what she told us she is working for setting the shelton and then he's like at that point i was pissed yeah before that i'm like you know i mean it's a rune thing're going to kill her, but it's only about the rune. I was getting mad, but it was just telling me what to do. Now I've got motivation.

Yeah. Now it's like, Jesus Christ. Now, what are we going to do here? He became very angry and he said that he stated to her, and this is his own words. This isn't someone else said that he said this. This is what he's telling the police. He told his very soon to be murder victim. Okay.

Quote, bitch, you shouldn't have told me that i don't want to kill you but it looks like we have to now to survive oh my god he even left in the bitch part yeah which says he's the dumber one yeah because you'd think just to make himself sound a little less like a dick he would have he would have said you shouldn't have told no he said i told her bitch you shouldn't have told me that what the fuck is wrong with you you stupid bastard i insulted her i insulted her with a very cliche uh derogatory term for a woman i want to hit her with some misogyny first right and then i was like you know This black witch, she needs that shit. Oh, my God. He then said he grabbed her around the neck and, quote, wrenched down hard. She struggled, but finally became unconscious. I don't know if that was after he told her to chill out.

This is a good thing. You're going to sit at the right hand of fucking Pagoda God, of piercing Pagoda God. And then, you know, all that shit's going to happen. I'm not sure what he told her that at that point uh but he then said that he removed he then acted out removing her sweater uh removing the sweater that she was wearing uh that he loaned her earlier to keep warm so he put it back on he took it off it was his it was my sweater what the fuck i'm gonna let her she's a black witch i'm gonna leave the sweater on her she's not gonna be gold that's what he said he's like so he said the jacket came

off because of the sweater coming off he had because of you know the sweater was under the jacket got it she had to lay her up right so uh you know he said he kept that and then he said quote uh that he said quote in the name of ari, we grant your sacrifice now, is what he said. And then he said, as he said that, Jones then came and struck her at that point with the machete, and he acted that out. And then he said, Rose says that he then walked toward Melissa. And as he did, he said she rolled over so she was face up. And he goes, for Christ's sake, she's still breathing. Fucking black witch. See?

That's what it is. That's what they used to do it in salem right if you whack them with a machete in the twice in the back of the neck and the rune stones tell you so then they're a witch i believe is how it worked and if not then they float i don't know how it works i think so either way yeah i believe there was rune stones involved so either way they said that oh my god i can't even believe these fucking people are just stupid what's coming up she's still breathing yeah and he said that oh my god i can't even believe these fucking people are just stupid what's coming up she's still breathing yeah and he said that she started to regain consciousness oh my god so rather than being hacked oh my god we're horrible monsters we choked her and hacked her with a machete let's run away and call 9-1-1 from a payphone and tell them where she is even if

something i don't know what the fuck instead he says that oh my god rose says that he quote karate chopped her in the throat what a dipshit he karate chopped her in the throat yeah you know he said he god he made like a real like i know karate face like no he karate chopped her in the throat all that does you ever been karate chopped karate chop every time you're doing what are you doing asshole what's wrong with you what what you think you missed something was there a fly on me oh what happened what happened oh car coming what happened i don't know oh no you were hey that's were you hey fuck you dude you attempting to hurt me hey Hey, push him. Fuck's wrong with you. Wait for me.

Karate chop. Karate chop in the throat. That's going to be. That's the John Claude Van Damme here is going to blood sport or one last day. Just just saw blood sport. It was Hong Kong. Karate chopped her in the throat and brought his elbow down in her stomach just below her ribs.

So and then after that, he checked her pulse so he thought literally he said chop elbow that ought to do it and then checked her pull i swear to god that's his fucking story he karate chopped her and elbowed her and went he murders like a big brother yeah done like your two-year-old or uncle and he was surprised we don't mean to be laughing this is happening to this poor girl but when someone's this fucking stupid and saying these words out loud we're laughing at him because he's a complete that's horrible if this is happening to a human being especially a 19 year old fucking girl but jesus christ what an idiot he then so like chop elbow checker pulse yeah fucking still got a pulse can you believe it

i saw in a movie the chop should work i don't know what happened and then the extra elbow is to get all the air out of her yeah you do a chop that'll cut it all off and then that puffs it all out and then she's dead that's how it works poke her in the eyes and give her a noogie see how that works he then said that he straddled her body and choked her with his hands for five to ten minutes that's his new story choked her with my hands for five to ten minutes the new the new that's the new one rather than we both stood on a spear and did a balancing thing for a while so uh he says that uh jones then suggested they lay the spear across the neck and he said yeah good idea that's good that'll kill a black witch much easier than this this is i've been showing my hands i got a carpal tunnel i gotta tell you i have so much typing you

ever squeeze anything it's for a long time it's tough it's hard yeah strangling's hard work oh boy yeah if you strangle someone you gotta you really wanted it you better have a rope or a you do a manual asphyxiation you wanted that so bad yeah like that person really nothing would make you happier than this person dead after a while you'd be like jesus you know what never mind you're a dick but my answer is ridiculous but no this asshole here these assholes decide let's lay a spear across this poor fucking girl's neck uh he said great idea and now he says on the video they stood at the end at both ends of the spear for 20 minutes. Oh, boy.

Talking about what the runestones had said to them. Let's discuss it. It takes 20 minutes to decipher them. They're very complicated. He said that at that point, they checked the body to see what happened here. Rose also tells the cops that Jones was an apprentice. Okay, this is when it gets weird. This is when it gets weird.

Jones was an apprentice, quote, who served Ariok, a god of chaos and evil, worshipped by human sacrifice. That's what he says on camera. He's an apprentice. But Rose describes himself as a necromancer. Oh, boy. Who is someone who conjures up spirits of the dead so he's like this guy's he's a fucking you know apprentice to ariak whatever he's getting coffee i'm a fucking necromancer i'll bring people from the dead yeah that's how i do my thing so

just so that's the shit out of them just so you know yeah it's necromantic this guy is ridiculous fucking unreal uh he says that he didn't feel a pulse and the body felt colder, which after 20 minutes, it would have lost a little temperature. Yeah. He says that. But they weren't sure. And just to make sure she was dead because, you know, come back to life. I'm a necromancer.

Also. Yeah. I'm in there. I'm around. Sometimes we put them down. I could have just brought her back. Just a joke. By accident. You never know. That's that's the thing so i said why don't you check them and i giggled a little bit you know i did uh-huh so uh he said uh so at that point uh they they talked

for a little while longer they've you know just to make sure it's about five more minutes they stood on the spear uh talking about quote what the runes said to do next. So, yeah. Then they said that they took her necklaces and he and Jones took her rings and they threw the body where they threw it. And then while Rose performed a ritual to keep the spirits away, obviously, Jones covered the body with brush and a board because he's the apprentice see and then they placed necklaces in uh placed the necklaces in her purse and carried the purse and rings and sweater and her jacket back to their campsite uh by the way he was going to use her this is ridiculous he was using her purse as like a it's like a weed bag really like a you know like

a paraphernalia bag there you've got my bowl and my little scraper. My little kit. That's what he was going to use it as. Because he's a bright, he's smart. That's smart when someone's, wow. Reuse. Recycle, reuse, reall. It's Oregon. We don't want to just let it go to waste.

Reuse. So Rose says he then built a fire and threw some of Melissa's jewelry into the fire as a sacrifice to two gods who, quote, take jewelry and crafted items as sacrifices. Yeah. He then says that he and Jones kept the jewelry that they didn't sacrifice, gave some to their girlfriends, kept some and all that, kept the cosmetics bag, not her purse, but her cosmetics bag, which he used to make his little weed kit bag and her caboodle and her jacket which he altered and wore what he fucking like chopped it up to make the sleeves off or something he wore her the victim you murdered someone you're walking around with their jewelry and jacket on how fucking dumb are you modified jacket uh dumb shit yeah it's fine now they won't know he thinks he is wow uh

he says that uh you know after he reenacted it they asked him how he felt about killing melissa they asked rose and rose said that he had quote passed through the seventh gate so obviously you know what that means you know of hell but you know it's a gate that's right so your mom died how do you feel about that well i passed through the seventh gate and you're like okay cool bro i'm glad to hear you're doing better i'm freaked out by you know that was weird no i don't know what that is passed through the seventh gate which he explained was a human sacrifice and that made him feel good because that's got him through this through the seventh gate so i mean once you go through the seventh gate obviously things are much better for you and it sounds like Scientology is like what's happening now.

Is this Scientology or what the fuck is. You shouldn't. Nobody should know this much. No, this is a lot of. This is too much. Once you're hanging out with somebody and they explain all this stuff to you, before you've sacrificed anything, whether it be a bottle or a cup or a fucking squirrel. What? Yeah, we said.

Gates. No, I'm going home. Read read a book i think he's read too many books i think his problem is one too many fiction books yeah one that made him real think that there was gates to pass through for human sacrifice get the fuck out of the fiction section what are you doing you lost track of the dewey decimal system then he told the detective quote she was hard to kill this was a human sacrifice that was that so uh there is a discrepancy between his reenactment of the murder and the third reenactment there's a discrepancy between rose's reenactment solo and then the the team tag team reenactment

that they did here uh together and the first reenactment he said that they took her jewelry after she was dead in the third reenactment they said that she was still alive uh when they took her jewelry that's what rose said and then jones agreed with it so that's the discrepancy is when they took her jewelry nothing else so that's what happened pretty much all of that shit they all agree to that that's awful it's crazy so they indict obviously rose is indicted here. One count of aggravated aggravated murder, mind you. Oh, because of the robbery. Yeah. Based on the Ford, they have theories of this where it's aggravated murder is murder in the course and in furtherance of a robbery of a robbery in the first degree murder in the course and in furtherance of kidnapping murder in the murder in the course or as a result of intentional maiming and murder in the course of or as a result of intentional torture all four of those qualify anything yeah

good you're going blanket umbrella right over you chief like a big fucking filbert tree yeah hanging over you with its shade my god uh so he's also charged with robbery in the first degree which allows him to have aggravated murder charges. The state says, why don't we look for the death penalty on Mr. Rose here? Since he's an adult, he's 19. Let's seek the death penalty on him.

Fuck this kid. So, uh, yeah, they said, uh, uh, his attorney though,

uh, Terry Goff, he called the prosecutor's version of the killing, which is actually Rose's videotaped, acted out version of the killing quote, nothing with smoke and malarkey. Oh. Malarkey.

Malarkey. It's malarkey, damn it. You know what happens when that happens. Malarkey comes out of the woodwork. Is that a real word, malarkey? He used it in a court of law, and they wrote it down in a document, so I'm going to assume, yeah.

He says that, yes, of course, Rose caused his death, caused Meyer's death here melissa obviously but most likely by applying a chokehold after uh meyer informed him that she was working for this vaughn shelton guy there's a lawyer my god the lawyer is putting forth his bullshit in the court saying she worked for a rival satanist who was trying to have our my client killed this guy you know melissa tells him yeah i'm working for vaughn he had no choice but to put her in a choke old self-defense accidentally killed her at that point so you know a mistrial or something right

i don't know i didn't go to law school at all i did no i he i have a bindle he told me to put it down and come in here i don't know what's going i met him in the woods first down at the eugene mall and then we went to the woods to smoke a joint the pagoda he's like you want to be a lawyer and i was like sure i could use you and he stole one of his dad's suits and here i am so yeah uh he said that that's that's all it was he said uh the type of work that she did wasn't specified, but she assumed that she did for Vaughn Shelton. They didn't specify, but they could only assume that it was something dark and nefarious

and that she needed to be choked, obviously. His client shouldn't be convicted of aggravated murder because no aggravating circumstances were present in this slaying. It was just an accidental self-defense whole thing. You know, what the fuck, man? Accidental self-defense whole thing you know what the fuck man accidental self-defense you know how it goes accidental self-defense it happens all the time yeah jesus christ it's like i have to explain everything to you people accidental self-defense it's it's a thing i accidentally was self-defensive you know i didn't mean to be but you know von shelton don't you know, Vaughn Shelton. Don't you? You know what? I quit, man.

This is ridiculous. You people are dicks. You don't know anything about Vaughn Shelton. You know about rune stones. I'm just upset. So while awaiting trial here, Rose continued to draw all sorts of satanic symbols in a cell like a fucking idiot in the Lane County Jail, mostly like the inverted pentagram and the goat head in the middle

of horse shit like you saw slayer album and fucking put it up there uh and investigators would come in and take pictures of it to use against him at trial and all that shit now normally i really really hate the whole satanic panic horse shit especially of the 80s and that's how the west memphis three got false falsely accused and all that shit because it's a real people went nuts and they lost their mind and if they saw oh my satan but when you got a guy literally being like yeah the runestones and vaughn shell what the fuck bro you don't understand black witch black witch now it was like nine uh satanic ritual killings yeah in, in reality. It's very rare. And the majority of them were in movies. Yeah.

This is ridiculous. And it made people... This is one where, whatever the actual intent was, these two idiots both... I don't know if maybe Rose was tricking Jones into doing this, because he seems like the brains of the Operation Rose.

Somebody's pretty dumb. I don't know. That's what I mean. I don't know if Rose was tricking Jones. He wanted to kill this girl for his own because he has this criminal record and he's kind of a douche and he's escalatingly bad for his own needs but was like hey i can get jones to do it if i do this whole runestone rocks around black witch shit and then maybe i can get off on a maybe an insanity thing if i keep it going i can't just and just for common sense i can't think that this kid sat

around realistically thinking i threw the fucking stones they told me this she's working for vaughn shelton i gotta kill her she's a black witch black witch black witch sacrifice human throw i can't imagine they you know what i mean it's banana it seems like an excuse and even if he did believe it how could he possibly think that he's going to explain that to everybody? That's what I mean. Nobody that he's ever met thinks this way. So it's almost like that's what I'm saying. It's not a good thing. And then he's saying it. And it's like the prosecutors aren't going to say he's full of shit because it makes their case even better.

That's a satanic. There's his reason right there. Satanic fucking sacrifice, which scares the shit out of the jury. They want to lock him up forever. That's what happens. And so it's almost like everybody's happy with this lie i feel like you know what i mean he's happy to tell it makes him feel better makes him look like he's not a just a bloodthirsty animal monster there's a reason for it and it makes the the cops feel like well this there's a reason to give the jury right there so uh he also uh uh they also said that that they tell the judge that a deputy sheriff would testify that John Jones smiled and laughed when Rose made some, quote, particularly callous statements about the victim's demise while they were making the video thing.

He says that Jones and Rose took an hour to kill Melissa Meyer and they, quote, worshiped a God that demanded human sacrifice from him. So that's what I mean. That's silly shit. But that's the story he's telling. So it's like, but fine. If that's the story you want to tell, you want to make it worse. Great. We'll run with that shit.

Now, Dan Koenig, K-O-E-N-I-G, which is crazy that his name is that. I'd really like to know. The relationship. Well, no. It's got to be. No, to our bonus episode. That's a name that's going to come're to our bonus episode that's a name that's going to come up in our bonus episode this week and it's in this area also and it's an interesting thing but never mind here isn't sarah from this area also sarah canning i'm not sure if she is or

not uh but her this is uh uh jones's defense attorney he argues that look jones john jones i only he only participated in melissa's killing because he was so scared of jason rose and was dominated by him he is the man holding the stones jimmy you don't disobey the stones jimmy jesus christ uh during most of the evening he said that jones didn't believe that rose really was going to kill meyer like apparently this was the planned thing that rose was like we're gonna take her back there we're gonna fucking kill her because she's working for vaughn shelton and you know whatever but he was like yeah right're going to take her back there. We're going to fucking kill her because she's working for Vaughn Shelton and, you know, whatever. But he was like, yeah, right. Like he thought it was just a big play around. Jones is what he's saying at court now in court.

He'll later on say that he was so concerned that he really just wanted to try to get her away from the campsite. But then it went too far, obviously. He said after the first time that Rose choked Meyer, Rose's attorney said that Rose twice ordered Jones to kill her. the first time that rose choked meyer uh rose's attorney said that rose twice ordered jones to kill her and uh the second time rose ordered jones to kill her that's when the machete thing happened and they do all that because they show the jury the reenactment uh and jones will later say that he was fearful that rose would try to kill him so he had to do it uh uh jones oh my god

uh the the uh kanig who's jones's attorney, will say, quote, It was a master servant relationship that Johnny Jones had with Mr. Rose. John Jones only did what Jason Rose told him to do, directed him to do, commanded him to do. He did it under threat of his own life. So, yeah, they said, uh, Caning even called the medical examiner that said in all likelihood, uh, Melissa was dead before they stood on the spear placed across her neck. Uh, they were probably just bad at looking for a pulse and thought they felt something and it was probably their own pulse when you're feeling through the thumb. Well, especially when you're, you just killed a 19 year old girl and pumping your adrenaline is pumping.

You can feel through your own thumb. That's probably what they felt. Not just that. You just choked the shit out of a girl for five minutes you know the adrenaline of murder for no reason has to be great i would imagine some some blood pumping yeah so uh uh now in the robbery this is important here the robbery in order to sustain a conviction for robbery in the first degree uh the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he, quote, this was in the course of committing theft, used physical force upon the victim. And three, with intent of preventing or overcoming her resistance to the taking of the property.

And that for that, in that process, he caused serious physical injury. Now, obviously, they said the first, second and fourth elements aren't up for much debate. The committing theft, using force upon the victim and uh causing her physical injury yeah uh the intent of preventing or overcoming her resistance to the taking of the property is the third part that has to be met as well though and that's where they're trying to say that it's not uh that's not proven well it depends did i say before or after she's dead that's the thing and that's that's where there's the discrepancy in the videotapes. And that's where that's going to...

It seems like no big deal at the time. But then when it comes up in a case of death penalties, you know, crossing eyes and... Dotting eyes and crossing... Dotting T's and crossing eyes. Crossing eyes and dotting T's. So they said that he admits that he committed the theft. He used physical force and all that shit. The state is not required to prove his motive for that.

The issue is not why he did what he did, but whether he committed it with the intent of it. So not motive, but intent, which sound the same. Sounds the same, but they're very, very different. Well, intent is uh the actual um legally the motion of doing it for different motive is just a reason to have intent intent is what you want it to have done a motive is the reason you want it to have it done so yeah you got to have a motive to have an intent type of thing but the motive isn't important only the intent and uh they're very hard to you know peel apart from each other

sometimes in court and that's why people get life sometimes instead of the death penalty it works out like that uh so uh the at this point uh um rose told uh uh they talk about they they also call the the uh newman girl the robin newman girl to the stand and she says that he told uh her that he and jones quote might know something about the victim's murder and then all the easy to kill a friend stuff and said that uh they needed money and they were looking for a place to live so they also needed to find a place to live in addition to being you know whatever she had a price on her head they had to kill her in order to get money and uh all that stuff they had to give her shit away they had to sacrifice some of her stuff you know how it goes so uh uh now uh later on by the way he's going to try to get these videotapes to not be seen by the jury

which seems like you wouldn't want them to see that uh he says so uh but he is the jury does get the tapes and we'll talk about that a little bit here. But he argues that if the jury views Jones's reenactment, the second one, his confrontation rights aren't there because then he has to be able to cross examine Jones because that's basically testimony by Jones. So he's saying if the jury sees the second one, they can't see it so uh there it's unclear whether the jury sees the entire videotape or if the second reenactment is edited out jones's solo reenactment okay that's unclear in the jury after this all goes to trial after this all goes to verdict and everything like that so it's it's very uh uh it's very complicated and those make That makes a big difference. So the judge says, it seems to me you ought to do is proceed to put all of them on separate tapes. And then perhaps you and defense counsel can agree on the same thing of what's been received in evidence and blah, blah, blah.

And so they say, yeah, that's the proper solution. And so then they end up not knowing if that actually happens, though. so then they end up not knowing if that actually happens, though. During deliberations, a juror requested that the jury be given a television, a VCR, and the videotape of the reenactments, and they were given that, but they don't know whether it's an edited version or not. Either way, they come back surprisingly guilty for aggravated murder. Not surprising. He's not denying it, and he also doesn't seem real sorry about it.

So either way, it's just bad. Well, it was a human sacrifice, and boy, he couldn't help it. May 16th, 1989 is sentencing for Rose. Several witnesses, they have him testify that he had an interest in the occult, which that shit's not needed. I get that they're trying to pump it up and always so evil, but that's not really relevant. Even though he I guess it is because he says it is.

That's the thing. His lawyer argued that he was a, quote, macho, dumb kid. And that's what I think. I think he was drawing pentagrams on his wall to be like, see, look how scary I am. Look how badass I am. He thought that was cool. Nobody believed any of that. No, I mean, there's a couple some people, but very few people. Yeah, I bet the fucking Night Stalker Nobody believed any of that shit. I mean, there was a couple. There was some people.

But very few people. Yeah. I bet the fucking Night Stalker didn't even believe this shit. Probably. Well, maybe he was an idiot. He was just a bad actor. He was also an asshole. He was a terrible actor. Mm-hmm.

So bad at the phoniness. And the things he did was very just depraved and scummy. Him and BTK are the two scummiest, grossest. Dirtbags. Yeah, I mean, Bund bunny's a scumbag too but those two are really just gross for some bunny did it for for fucking you know yeah he had a weird these two needed it it was weird btk did it to tug that's yeah fucking weird that's even weirder oh it was just it was just tug material oh boy oh boy he had to make his own weird snuff

in the foreign live snuff. In the fucking woods. What a gross motherfucker. Jesus. So they said that this was actually an accidental, not a human sacrifice. Come on. The kid's crazy. Jury deliberates for three days about the penalty here. They decide they would like him sentenced to death.

They agree unanimously it was deliberate and unprovoked murder. And that also Rose is pretty likely to be dangerous in the future which i would agree with that um they said uh all the all the votes if any of the votes had been less than unanimous on any of these then it would have been a minimum 30 year sentence but they instead tell him you sir may fuck off death penalty for you oh shit rose gets the death penalty he is the first person to be sentenced to death in lane county since 1927 wow 1927 60 years 60 fucking years the last time in lane county a person was sentenced it's a damn good thing that they got caught before green river oh yeah because in yeah in in that area of the country the death penalty is uh

your penalty is based on uh other similar ones so if anybody ever come somebody has to kill more people than green river to get well no that's not now it's a different thing we'll talk about why because he's also the the uh the second person to be uh sent to the death row since they've brought it back. We'll talk about the whole thing here. But yeah, he says they asked Rose whether he had anything to say about the sentence and he says, quote,

I don't think I should receive this. Which is, I mean, okay. That's fine. I do. I disagree. I think you're pretty good. I think you're a dick. You killed a fucking... You super killed a 19-year-old girl're a dick 12 12 you killed the fucking number you super killed a 19 year old girl there's no question you did it and you did it really for

no fucking reason just because you're an asshole in a way yeah you lured her there and planned it nope you're a piece of shit yeah sorry uh so now john ray jones has his trial uh he's originally charged with aggregate aggravated murder and first degreedegree robbery, the same thing. Mind you, he was a minor when this was committed. He's going to be losing his shit. The state, in his case, failed to prove the specific time and cause of her death and that they happened at this time at this place. So they said that he clearly had intent to kill Meyer and committed the acts to the end but they couldn't try him they couldn't do the aggravated murder thing because of that so he was not a death penalty death penalty eligible anyway he's remanded for trial in adult court convicted of uh intentional

murder and robbery in the third degree okay so that's non-death penalty his sentencing here uh judge tells him you sir may also fuck off follow your asshole friend here 37 uh life oh shit 25 year minimum sentence for the murder and uh a five-year sentence to be served concurrently for robbery well shit so i mean also he's ordered to pay and this is no shit this is directly from he's ordered to pay. And this is no shit. This is directly from a newspaper ordered to pay $50 to the state's victim's assistance fund. $50. What's the point? I don't know. And upon release from prison, he'll be required to pay $5,000 to the victim's parents.

Yeah. So that's that. So maybe that $50 is because they make so little in prison that they're pretty much forcing him to work for a long fucking time in prison. I don't know what kind of fine $50 is, though. It's a murder conviction. And you'll pay them $50. Oh, I've got life in prison and $50?

Yeah, but you make like 11 cents a day. Yeah, that's just not a lot. It's more expensive to feed African adoptees. You know what I mean? No, true. They couldn't even adopt one prisoners no no they probably couldn't it would be hard to do they couldn't afford it so 1989 comes along and uh this is right after he's been sentenced rose to death uh rose is one of two

dozen almost two dozen a little over 20 oregon state death row inmates whose sentences are overturned by a 1989 u.s supreme court ruling and in that ruling the way oregon did their death penalty was not uh did not adhere to the supreme court ruling which means they had to go back and do every case and they overturned all these sentences so the ruling was based on a Texas ruling of down in Texas about a case in Texas where it was. It basically says that mitigating circumstance. I'm not going to explain it until I had to look up all fucking Supreme Court decision and figure this out. It sucks. Trust me. I was up five in the morning doing this.

I'm going to fucking punch everyone in Texas for it. No offense, Texas, see in Dallas and Houston. But whatever the fuck happened down there, the causes made me read more when I didn't want to. So basically says mitigating circumstances must be considered.

And apparently, I don't think in Oregon, that's the case where you have to weigh mitigating and whatever. So it didn't adhere to that. So all these people based on the law are overturned.

He's resentenced to life in prison on July 10th, 1989. So fuck back off again. Life in prison. No parole for him, by the way. None. He's got no parole. Life without.

Life without for Rose. That's the death penalty one there. So now he's going to appeal based on first videotape reenactments here. appeal based on first videotape reenactments here. He's going to say that the record shows that the trial court and counsel were aware that the first and third reenactments had been offered by and by evidence and the trial judge stated that he would not that the jury would not be allowed to see the Jones interact reenactment under any circumstances. So they they said, quote, we conclude that the record does not support uh rose's suggestion

that the jury viewed the reenactment by jones alone accordingly we find this claim of error unresponsive basically or unpersuasive basically they say there's no proof that the jury saw all three videos even though there's damn well sure they might have they don't document which ones they see no they don't they don't know which. They said there's different ones. There's two videotapes. One which is marked States Evidence 28 contains all three reenactments. The other which is marked States Evidence Exhibit 28

edited version, not 28B or something to make it whatever. And also, juries copy States 28 reenactment. Contains only the first and third reenactments, but they're not sure which of these tapes were handed to them officially. So that's the thing. You'd think that they would document that shit in a fucking murder trial.

You would imagine. Literally while they're deliberating the death penalty. They go, this might come up later. There's always appeals, so it's going to come up. Shit's going to be under a microscope, stupid. So the next thing he argues is, was it actually during a robbery? That's what he's saying. It wasn't actually during a robbery. The jury was basically, they said, was inferred that Rose and Jones stole the property to get money. The jury also inferred that Rose and Jones stole

the property to sacrifice it to gods who take jewelry and crafted items as sacrifices, and that the sacrifice of the victim and her property were part of a scheme to placate the gods, which would also be a gain for them. So either way, it was placating the gods, selling the shit at a pawn shop, same shit, basically. They're also entitled to infer, they said, that Rose and Jones stole the property to give it to their girlfriends and to keep it for their own use, and that Rose's possession of the property after the murder is evidence of the motive underlying the homicide. They said the jury was not bound to accept the counsel's defense's argument that they

used physical force and only did so for the purpose of causing her harm and death and not with the intent of preventing or overcoming her resistance to the theft of property. They're saying, we just wanted to kill her. We didn't give a shit if we got her jewelry or not. So, yeah, they said they formed the intent to take the property only after she was dead as a mere afterthought. But there's that third reenactment where they say they took it first. So that's why it's hard to say.

And they say, you know, that's up to the jury. Basically, they could have whatever. And then what kind of murder? They said there's evidence in the record that the jury could have inferred that the physical force was used in the commission of the robbery. They do all that. And they said, again, viewing the evidence, they conclude that the evidence was sufficient to permit the jury could have found the essential elements of the crime of aggravated murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Fuck you. So jury instructions instructions another one uh they talk about how uh basically the close of the trial the trial court

gave the juries a special verdict form and uh they had four theories of aggravated murder like we talked about and uh the jury returned aggravated guilty of aggravated murder and robbery first degree, as we know. It's very complicated, too. The juror form questions, it's very, I'm not going to get into it. They talk literally about the fifth question on a juror form was worded this way and not that way. That's what we're talking about here. And finally, there's a videotape of the victim's body, of Melissa's body. there's a videotape of the victim's body, of Melissa's body.

Rose contends the trial court erred in admitting into evidence a videotape showing Melissa's body at the scene of the crime and at the hospital being prepared for an autopsy. Oh, fuck. Which that's worse than photos, because photos, as we know, can be allowed in, but videotape is a little more... Oh, it's so personal. It's more, yeah.

Photos is two-dimensional. I mean, video is two-dimensional, too, but when it's moving, it's a different... It's graphic. it's graphic. They said that the – argues that portions of the videotape are unfairly prejudicial. The court says, although relevant evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading of the jury, or by considerations of undue delay or needless presentation of cumulative evidence. Basically, uh, they said the trial court asked whether,

whether they, uh, objected to the exhibit. And they said, quote, I don't have any objection to the tape as such. Your honor. I do.

At some point, uh, we'll argue against the introduction of any more pictures of the body. It's not cumulative right now, but they have pictures and, and then the film and then other pictures. As far as showing the tape right now, I don't have any objections.

So they tried to say, I'm going to limit it at some point. Doesn't matter, basically. They said, then he said, quote, I do have an objection to part of the film. Your Honor, at the hospital, I think that's unduly prejudicial to the defendant. Apparently, it's just before they start the autopsy.

So they had her prepped for autopsysy which is a particularly yeah that's right but usually it's photos like that yeah uh and crime scene shit uh court overruled the objection videotape was shown to the jury and the appeals court says we're good with that fuck off uh so affirms now jones appeals he's appealing both conviction and sentence both of them. So he is looking. His thing is about mandatory minimum sentence and juvenile status. That's his thing here. Juvenile court under this particular statute shall not include sentence of death or life in prison without the possibility of release or parole, nor imposition of any mandatory minimum sentence, except that a mandatory minimum sentence under whatever statute shall be imposed with a person with 17 years of age at the time of the offense. So they said this statute doesn't define a mandatory minimum sentence, and they're trying to that uh he shouldn't be in in jail as long as he is uh they said that a court quote here says that a person convicted of murder shall be punished by imprisonment for life and then they go over the different uh ones it's a minimum of 10 years like this and it's such an old law too one says uh actually uh quote this is uh of this

subsection may order that the defendant shall be confined for a minimum term of up to an additional 15 years without possibility of parole, work release on work release or any form of temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp. So that's very specific there. Court appeals the convictions, but they do remand him for resentencing. They overturn his high sentence here. 1997, Rose is appealing something here. He's got a different kind of appeal. This is from the Statesman Journal in Salem. This is hilarious.

Jason Rose appeals in 1997, saying that they need to give him his Dungeons and Dragons back. Stop it. They took it away. Stop it. And he says it's bullshit uh no uh federal judge rules that prison officials didn't violate an inmate's religious rights by confiscating his dungeons and dragons game he tried to say it was his religious right to play dnd which is amazing uh yeah he's serving for life sentence he described jesus christ he said uh is this the only time that a dnd nerd has killed somebody you know what i mean and actually been like right yeah and then he and then the prosecutors in this repeal tried to say

that dnd had an influence on the murder which whatever and bullshit and then uh docile people on earth yeah so he he said that part of his legal efforts to overturn his conviction he needed the game this is what he this is what he said not only is it his religious right but as a part of his legal efforts to overturn his conviction he needed the game which included books dice and a board large enough to accommodate a small-scale dungeon wilderness and other playing areas so he could plan his appeals. Oh, boy. He's going to use D&D to plan his appeal for murder. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. September of 2011 comes around, and it is a possible future parole for John Ray Jones. This is just coming up now. In anticipation of his release release, of his release date in September 2011, he underwent a psychological evaluation. As part of the evaluation,

he participated in a bunch of assessments. They said they were generally positive results from that. In his evaluation, the doctor observed that he was, that Jones was, quote, clearly prepared for the interview, alert and well-oriented, and displayed no symptoms of major major depression, loose associations of thought or hyperactivity. They said his personality functioning said that he was, quote, less defensive than a previous assessment and that he represented, quote, one of the best adjusted types of offenders in institutional settings. I don't care, he's a murderer. Yeah, he added that his profile was, quote, relatively free from any mood disorder, psychotic disorder, or schizoid adjustment,

and reflected a positive attitude toward authority, an acknowledgement of risk for substance abuse, but also some lingering alienation from his family. This guy diagnosed him with mixed personality disorder with cluster b features watch out for that doesn't that make him so much more dangerous well do you know what i mean he's got any sort of anything yeah he'll just hang on just a normal dude that happened to murder somebody in a horrible way yeah that's just be like well he's rehabilitated that's the thing crazy is at least something i can i can understand oh he's crazy i get that but just be like well he's rehabilitated that's the thing crazy is at least something i can i can understand oh he's crazy i get that but just i don't know just kind of had a lapse like holy shit that could have this time that could happen tomorrow oh boy uh so yeah i want i want

a reason i'm horrified by this man yeah he can be pushed into this uh this is jones by the way like i said they said that his the petition quote, risk for violent activity upon release is relatively low and will likely remain so if he participates in follow-up treatment to maintain abstinence from drugs and alcohol and personal therapy. an interview with him, during which they ask him about his crime and future parole plans. And shortly after that, they issue a board action form, which is found that it states, quote, the board determines that the psychological evaluation does constitute a finding that you have a present severe emotional disturbance, such as to constitute a danger to the health and safety of our community. So the determination is based solely on the psychological evaluation the board has considered this matter under the uh whatever standard that is this it's a it's a statute thing in effect at the time of

the commitment of offenses and under all applicable rules and law so they say that after after thinking about it again a month later, we think you're crazy now. We think you're dangerous. So based on the finding, the board postpones his release date. This is 2011 till June 30th, 2016. There, quote, if a psychiatric or psychological diagnosis of present severe emotional disturbance such as to constitute a danger to the health and safety of the community, has been made with respect to the prisoner. The board may order the postponement of the scheduled parole release until a specified future date. So you can go, we think he's going to be crazy for about five more years.

About five, I think. Looking at him, he looks like he's got about five more years of crazy left in him. Got a good five-year gleam. Five years. Tell you what. I see five in there. It's a five-year like he's got about five more years of crazy left in him. Got a good five-year gleam in his eye. Five years. Tell you what, I see five in there. It's a five-year stare he's got going on. So in December 2011, he sought an administrative review, and he contended that there was no

substantial evidence to sustain the rulings. He claimed that under some statute here that the board impermissibly considered prior psychological reports in his exit interview, because he said, that's shit from before. He goes, I took this interview, said I'm great. A little mixed personality, you know, problems with my mom, but other than that, I'm feeling fucking good. I'm ready to go rock and roll here. So, after January 2013, his release

date had passed. The board, on its own motion, reopened the reconsideration, stating a new psychological evaluation will be obtained and the exit interview hearing will be reconvened in april of 2013 so he completed another psychological evaluation and in that this another doctor uh diagnosed him with mixed personality disorder with antisocial and uh avoidant personality features impartial remission so uh he said that

jones quote is still seen as repressing awareness of uncomfortable experiences or perceptions particularly perceptions of his of uh his self that can be perplexing yeah so like everyone's a fucking murderer you know like murderers and like you know also people don't like to really think about that right uh they also said that uh uh if it becomes uh if he becomes a quote overwhelmed while trying to adjust in the community and find a job or develops a conflicted relationship with his wife or in any case begins to abuse alcohol and drugs then his risk to reoffend would increase from minimal to high so they're saying that's a he might not be ready there is

what they're saying here so the board uh further explains that the board went on to explain that it now believes its original decision to postpone the hearing was proper. And, you know, they still think that they're happy. They said referred to the older psychological evaluations for perspective only and didn't rely on them to make this. They just said, let's get a whole picture of him, not just this one thing. Let's get a whole picture of him, not just this one thing. Ultimately, they deny relief, concluding that proper that determined that the psychological evaluations constituted a finding that he had an emotional disturbance and was a threat. February of 2017 comes around and the Board of Parole and Post Prison Supervision postpones his parole date again. Oh, no.

Based on a finding that he had a present severe emotion. Same exact thing happens again they're gonna make him so mad oh my god oh they're gonna make him they're gonna make him want to murder somebody it's like he's gonna want to kill a person uh they uh again affirm its earlier decision to affirm its earlier decision again to postpone his release based on the uh second evaluation the same shit uh further than he argues that the board was not authorized to rely upon the second evaluation it just gets all complicated and they go no it's fine uh they do at one point agree with the petition agree with him about one of his little cases here they said they reverse and remand but uh that was 2017 and he's still in prison.

Right now, if you find him, if I looked him up and I found that he's looking at a June 2022 release date. Fuck, that's too early. So it's too early. It's 44 years, but I'm sorry, 34 years, but still seems light for what the hell they did there. Rose, Mr. Rose there is in prison. No chance of parole. Life in prison and uh his mugshot he's a fucking big old fucking like beard thing and a bald head oh boy this is a big fucking beefy scary looking cat right now i understand those idiots are in there i'm not sure about the rune stones or how his dnd game is going but uh either way these guys are fucking idiots.

Wow, man. I'm blown away. And I don't even know. Like I said, I hate the whole satanic thing because it's such bullshit and people used it for such bullshit for so long. They sure did it here too. When a person comes out and says, this is my bullshit,

they're like, he even said it's his bullshit. It's like an easy slam dunk. Like we said he's a satanist and then he says it too. It's fucking easy. So I don't know what the the hell happened there but those two guys are out of their goddamn minds and uh i don't know if you enjoyed that i do know how you can tell us that you can get on apple podcast that purple icon and tell us all about it give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say you gotta write something in there just say they're making me do this they're forcing me i'm following instructions.

It doesn't matter is what we're saying. You can't fix us with words. It's not for our ego. So please do that. Also, head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Very simple things to do there. You can buy all sorts of merchandise. You can look at crime and sports stuff.

And then after that, listen to crime and sports, which you should be doing anyway, because it's goddamn good. Do all that stuff. Get your merch. Get your tickets to the one live show, the Crime and Sports live in Nashville. Everything else is sold out, guys. So I think, like we said, there might be five tickets left in Houston. But I would assume by the end of you listening to this episode, other people have heard it and probably bought them.

So you probably should have listened to that at the beginning of the show all right uh either way uh get your tickets when there are tickets there also we are going to announce a slew of live dates bunches tons of live dates for 2020 so uh they'll be up on the site and also if you follow us uh which is uh at murder small on on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram you will know first about the Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. You will know first about the tour dates. Before we even announce them on the show, we'll announce them on social media. And also, they'll go on sale.

You'll know about that from social media, and you won't get left out next time. And really, guys, thank you so much for all these tickets you bought on this tour. You guys have become so strong for us where we're amazed man we can go when two jackasses can go into a city that they don't even live in anywhere near and sell anybody there and sell out a thousand seat theater it's crazy that's silly it's fucking silly and we're just so thankful for you guys and so what we do in these live shows is we try to give you the craziest best live show experience ever um we try to keep our ticket prices down believe me uh we've been told by just about everybody from agents to the clubs themselves and the elderly gangsters to just some guy in pittsburgh who came up some older italian

guy came up and go what are you guys doing charging this little you got you could charge more these people will pay it i'm telling you guys what are you doing uh we understand that we understand that we could probably we know there's a he was frightening he was i loved him though he was great he was great he's the guy to take money advice from that's the guy i want to i want to walk around with yeah oh god nobody will ever fuck with you he but like it's true we we know there's a certain point that you guys will pay more for tickets and it's not before it's like too much and we know we know that we're not at that ceiling we know that we charge lower than that we do that on purpose we literally want people to walk out and go fuck that was twice as much money twice as much show as i feel like i paid for i feel like i ripped them

off that's how good of a show that was holy shit i can't wait to wait to come back next time. That's what we want. We don't want to we're not trying to hold people by the ankles and shake the change out of their pockets and then run away into the night. We want to keep coming to do this and we want you guys to know that no matter what our live show is, whether it's small town murder, whether it's crime and sports or whether it's something else that we do, it's worth coming to see

no matter what it is. We're giving you Hydrox prices on this Oreo. Yes, that's what I'm saying. So please come out and see us and's what i'm saying so please come out and see us and thank you guys to everybody that has uh come out and and done everything like like that and seen us and been awesome awesome shows too you guys give back they're amazing you guys are so great it's so much fun you guys are nice at the shows you you you're nice to the staff we get compliments from the venues and that that shit matters. It really does. They want us back, and that helps, too.

We'll be back at nice venues. Also, you can email us. It's crimeandsports at gmail.com. And by the way, I forgot this at the top of the show because I'm a jackass. We have a voicemail where you can call, and we do bonus episode stuff with it sometimes where you can drop a Sahara Desert fart fact that you have or some weird small town festival you want to tell us about questions about episodes. That sounds terrible. I'll go fuck your mother, whatever you want to throw in there.

You can throw in there and be creative. We'll talk about any questions. If you have a case kind of a thing, throw that in there. And yeah, we'll talk about it. The voicemail number is 602-759-0606 so uh leave your voicemail and we will talk to you that's not my cell number that's not james's that is a google voice number don't go that goes to a computer don't go sending dick pics don't be being weird sarah reads it by the way she listens to the voicemails we don't even we won't hear them till

later she'll she like filters them out for us so she's gonna hear it so uh don't be weird with us because she's there and don't be weird with her because i'll fucking punch you in the mouth so do that shit uh have fun with all that and uh like we said gave you the email address and uh if you want to be a bigger hero to the show one of our producers here who uh we're going to talk about glowingly in just one second very very easy to do that. You can do it at patreon.com slash crime and sports. You can make a donation there. You can get to that right from shut up and give me murder

dot com or you can head over to PayPal and just make a one-time donation anytime you want using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com. And by the way, tomorrow or Friday, I don't know when you're listening to this, but Friday the day after small town murder comes out, there will be a bonus episode of Small Town Murder on Patreon for $5 and above. They're not the full two and a half hour episodes because Jesus Christ.

I mean, you can't expect that. But they're like a half hour, 35 minutes. And we do usually pick a crazy case that's like a half hour without a ton of the detail. Cut out most of the small town stuff and just kind of give you the essence of the whole thing. A really crazy one like that. So please do that. Boil it down, James. And let's do that.

Jimmy, I need to hear from people. Toss them down like a runestone, Jimmy, and read those names to me. This week's executive producers are Ryan Smithson, Juna Laiste. I don't know if that's a joke. That's not a joke, right? Juna? I don't think so. Sounds like somebody's name.

It sounds like it. Christiane Casaldi. Of course, again, Nathan Gaiatoko. That's what it is. Chelsea Morgan. And she wanted to just thank people for chipping into, I don't know what she had going on, but the fucking community that we've cultivated you guys are really nice you guys are just really great to each other and it's fucking

it's so rad it's so great to see it i love that when some one of them needs help like they'll all come and try to help and like people it's whether it's words or financial whatever it is that the yeah people need all the facebook groups people helping people it is fucking right all the different facebook groups and the devotees group and there's fans and there's like five different groups there's a there's a little oh they'll have spats in there and i'm like jesus christ people relax what are you fighting about but then when there's when there's actual work to be done someone needs something somebody's like people do it and it's awesome they will rally around and chelsea morgan donated to us

in uh in response to that So thank you guys very much. And thank you, Chelsea. Christopher Dilley, Gloria and Errol Davis. Errol Davis. They just got married. And they wanted to donate in honor of their marriage. Congratulations. Well, congratulations.

Thank you. Lee Walden and Leah. Lee and Leah. And they met us in, I forget where, but Lee was blacked out. Rochelle Singh. Drunk? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Super drunk. That's what the email said. It was either Lee or Leah, and I'm going with Lee. Sounds good. Probably the heavier drinker there. Ah. Shannon Russell, Cassie Reedus, Rosa Lujan, and Chloe Carlson donated both ways, and extremely sweet like.

Thank you very much. You guys are, you really make things much easier on us, and you change our lives. Thank you. I would say. Other producers this week are Kevin Michael, Ian Bottomley, Clara Grunwald, Sarah Kalin, Daniel Lumpkin, Travis, the owner of Veterans Pressure Washing in the Inland Empire. That's over in LA, right? That's Inland Empire's LA, right? Inland. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like, what? Super Inland. Riverside shit and all that. of veterans pressure washing in the inland empire that's over in la right that's inland empires la

right inland yeah yeah it's uh like what super in riverside shit and all that google veterans pressure washing and if you need pressure washing in la find that guy yeah uh james gia coloni uh anastasia jack alone jack alone gia coloni jack alone were driving. I just know the way you're pronouncing it. It's Jackalone. Pizza joint Famiglia Pizza. I said, oh, we can stop at the Famiglia Pizza. Jimmy, it's Famiglia. Just don't worry

about it. Just stop it. Don't read Italian words. The Famiglia Pizza. Anastasia Middleton, Sonia Lindberg, Lisa Lynn O'donnell uh amy conley justin miller thomas smith chelsea uh bbic uh jason no ricky what jason oh because mason that's what happened ricky mason uh austin koenig or koenig uh tessa divine joseph uh colangelo i got that one motherfucker well yeah because you're from phoenix they only owned all the sports teams your whole life lee main uh the 90s guys podcast rachel

stora christopher harvey tj matt kayleen kirsch ronald carl williams the second uh ashley vo gianna deluca got that one motherfucker. Grantham Williams. I imagine that's Grant Williams. Kristen Walker. Ashley Zick. Jamie loves Jimmy, and I don't know if it's me or you. Anthony Thomason. Felipe Torres. James Marder. Clay Thorson. Jackie Sukup.

Christina with no last name. Jesse Panik. Ronnie Kumar. Reagan Shulkley. She's fantastic. Selena Yancey, Melissa Allen. She's in L.A. Thank you, Melissa. Diane. By the way, they should love us both because they wouldn't love either one of us without the other one.

So it really doesn't fucking matter. It's the same one. Without Jimmy, it'd be fucking me yelling a lot and telling just my only jokes would be yelling. And without me, it would just be quiet for like two hours uh thanks to this person for listening to me read names yeah thank you diane uh diane douglas james stokely patrick hagerty amanda horton liz vasquez alissa may creates thank you uh cody whit uh whitby kristin ingram deidre Gutierrez. What the fuck? That was the whitest way of pronouncing it. Gutierrez. She makes good tacos.

Her tacos are tremendous, I bet. I just looked at that word and pronounced every goddamn letter. Fucking white. Thank you, Deidre. Lively Management or MGMT? I don't know. That's management, right? I believe so. Jesse hartman sue thompson

alana would know last name baze stowe or baz stowe i could be pronouncing uh the joke wrong either way jessica bean vanessa silva peyton meadows celeste may april would know last name sean patrick sir crits a lot uh caitlin bannister katherine collado uh patrick lau zay no k k zomerle uh zomerle uh karen dykens uh katherine jones stephanie jones jordan bennett leslie buffa buffoni uh buff one sarah caitlin i said that sarah wheeler erica with no last name gary howard josh newcombe oh my word this is getting i'm just it's getting to be rigged god damn dick you guys are fucking awesome really thank you awesome you are uh sean hansen gerald bomer chloe with no last name caravan frisell uh peter airtight uh reagan felder

wow i guess some kind of handle you got there chris de glopper uh jeff burton i need a water jessica hagan shannon hagan my my cousin uh fucking thank you so much shannon for for everything she's a bad ass fucking rat she came and saw us in two different cities and drove for three hours breastfeeding dude pumping she's a fucking animal like a cooler with milk she's she's amazing just awesome and uh thank you and she's helped the show you guys can thank her because she's she's amazing just awesome and uh thank you and she's helped the show you guys can thank her because she gave she got us a discount on our fucking apple computer the reason why our computer hasn't broken down in a year is because we got a good apple computer thank you so much you're the part of the family that i adore i love you yeah uh

tenley melton sofia mckeever parks christ Christopher Genovesio. Got that one. You're so excited with any Italian name. McKenna Mattal, Faisal Quadri, Alyssa Barton, Mikel Giacomero. I don't know. Hey. Hey. Samira Russell, Lee Fitzgerald. Usually the G-I-A is like Giac. I know.

Giacomero? No. It can't be right. Giacomero, probably.. It can't be right. Jackamaro, probably. Oh, but that's right. Brittany Boltman. Mary Farnkruger? No.

Farnkrug. Deborah. Mary Farnkrug. Thank you. No, I'm sorry. Your name is not Farnkrug. She's been called that her whole goddamn life. Deidre Maxwell.

Ryan Heathman. Kevin Goodwin. Wayne Hopkins, dude with no dude deal. There's something else with that. Right. Stephanie Poole, Mindy Walker, Kathleen Bowman, Dakota Reiser, Cheddar Cat, Deborah

Cassidy, Will Thompson, Janelle Brown, Cassidy, no, Casey, Kelsey, goddammit, Kelsey, Kelsey Driscoll, Denise Heffel, Robert Lewis, Josh Tapman, and Ashley with no last name. And every goddamn Patreon supporter. We see you guys. We appreciate you.

Thank you. You guys change everything for us, and you make this so much easier. Thank you, thank you. Fucking viable. We love you. Thank you for everything. Really, you guys do. And we hope you enjoy the bonus stuff we put up this week and everything like that.

And I don't know. We always say if you're donating to us it's not for like bonus shit or anything like that right just donate if you like the show and if you think that you know if you think that listen to a bunch of it oh you feel like you want to give us a couple bucks then great do it don't be like well you're you're not buying anything we're not twisting your arm for that yeah but when you do it it really it makes us try so much harder you have no idea it really gives us so much motivation you're ensuring us to have that anxiety that makes us go god we have to really do this if they don't like it then i'll be sad because they gave me money so i feel like i should give them something they like

so it's that anxiety that fuels us to keep doing this shit and thank you so much for that you guys are amazing thank you what if they wanted to get a hold of you, Jimmy, and tell you that you were amazing? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And you guys, you already follow me there. Every week you make my week.

So thank you guys. Absolutely. Where can they find you? Oh boy, you can find me at JimmyPIsFunny or just copy and paste my last name from the show description and do it that way and you'll find me eventually. And I'm on there.

And you'll hear me complain and all that sort of shit. But that said, it's been a wild episode. All sorts of runestone madness and craziness. And thank you guys for hanging out with us once again. I've got to get back to my Dungeons & Dragons. Oh, Jesus. Well, Jimmy, it's on hold. Don't worry.

They can't play without the both of us. Right. So, I mean, I have the dice in my pocket. So, ain't nobody playing right now. With. Right. So, I mean, I have the dice in my pocket. So, ain't nobody playing right now. With that said, everybody, thank you so much

and we'll keep continuing to come back and come back and come back and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.