Small Town Murder - #168 - A Killer In The Cards in Mexborough, South Yorkshire, England

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

This week, in Mexborough, South Yorkshire, England, a troubled young man finds his idols, when he reads books about serial killers like Jack The Ripper, and The Yorkshire Ripper. He tells everyone who will listen about his plans to match their deeds & infamy. Will he accomplish his goals, or be caught before he can make himself a legend? Along the way, we find out that England is really, really old, that announcing your intentions to be a murderer may not be the best idea, and that you should only idolize killers who haven't been caught!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Mexborough, South Yorkshire, England, a young man idolizes such heroes as Jack the Ripper and has no problem telling all who will listen about his plans. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We are excited, as always, for another wild, crazy,

downhill, always downhill roller coaster known as Small Town Murder. We have an absolutely insane case for you this week, as really the last few have been. We're pushing it pretty hard here. It's hard to find one where you're disappointed, James. That's what I'm saying.

We're going overseas. We're going to England. Oh. As always, and we'll say this again, but as always, with all of our overseas episodes of any show we do, we do ask that you find our ignorance charming. Please do that.

Very quickly, a little house cleaning. Please, if you haven't done it yet, rate and review iTunes, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, whatever it is, the purple icon there. Give us five stars. Say whatever you want. Doesn't matter. It's not for our ego. Head over to shut up

and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder related listen to crime and sports if you haven't yet i don't know what you're doing there it's great comes out every tuesday listen to ps i hate this movie every friday where i make fun of bad romantic comedies with my wife do that hang out come see us do all that stuff look for tickets yeah tour dates merchandises up all sorts of stuff. I know we have masks up. There's a charity. Yeah charity thing.

We're doing it's pretty neat. So awesome. You can check that out. They're really cool. Get your tour date tickets looks like from the summer on we're hoping this is going to push through so get all your dates now over at shut up and give me murder.com quickly and if you want to be if you want the bonus material this week and every week really you can be a patreon subscriber easy to do that head over to patreon.com slash crime in sports

and you make a donation there anything over a five dollar donation gets you access to all the bonus material and there's a lot of it and we're coming out with new stuff all the time this week we're doing prisoner dating game all violent felonon Edition, where Jimmy will not know who he picked until the end when he picks them, and then he gets to find out what they've done. So that's fun. I won't know until it's too late. Until it's too late.

Just like a regular date. Yep, so you can check that out. Four lucky bachelors and four lucky bachelorettes will line up for a chance. So come check that out, this week's bonus episode. Last week was on a guy named The Soul Sucker, so you should probably listen to that as well. All sorts of stuff there, but never mind that stuff.

Oh, PayPal, too. You can make a donation at PayPal. PayPal, and then use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. If you want to make a one-time donation. Thank you guys for everything you do there. It really is overwhelming. Thank you. The thank you is not enough, but that's what we can offer.

That's all we got, audio-wise. That's all we can do. Disclaimer quickly, got audio-wise. That's all we can do. Disclaimer quickly, this is a comedy show. It is a comedy show. There will be murders. Murders happen. Bad things happen to people. They happen every day in the world.

And we're going to talk about just a sliver of them here. What we go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. But why? Because we're assholes. Yes. But we're not scumbags. And now you have it. That's how that works. So we think that's going to make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes yes but we're not scumbags and now you have it that's how that works so we think that's going to be fun oh there's plenty to make fun of around an actual death we're going to find those margins and we're going to dance in them so hang out with us if you will if you don't think true crime and comedy

should ever go together just you know like those two things and existing in the same plane this isn't for you probably yours thank you for trying but uh let's call it a bad date i don't like those two things existing in the same plane. This isn't for you, probably. Thank you for trying, but let's call it a bad date. I don't want to hear any complaints. Right. Let's do that. But for the rest of you, let's have a good time. Let's do it. We're going to go over and screw up some English accents and all sorts of stuff today.

You just need to sit back, scare the shit out of your cats and dogs and whoever's in your house, and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Great. Let's go on a trip. I suppose. Overseas. This is illegal.

It's a fantasy, Jimmy. This is illegal, James. It's a fantasy. This is goddamn illegal. Celeste. If we leave, we can't come back. We're stuck. Yeah.

Last week, we were in California, and so we're going to go as far away from there. Well, not as far. You could go much farther, but we're going to go pretty far away from there. If we go west, it's a long way. It's a long way. We're going to go all the way to England over here. That's all I got to say here. Mexborough is what it's called, which sounds like a racial slur of a neighborhood.

That's Korea Town, and that there is Mexborough. Stay out of there after dark. I'll go into Mexborough now. Although, if you go into one of them carnicerias or whatever the hell they call them, that meat's pretty good. I ain't going to lie. You put it on the grill, you put it in a tortilla, it's not bad. Have you a nice Sunday with your family. That ain't bad.

I'll tell you what. So we're mixing. We had to do it somehow. Southern England. Southern England. This is a southern part of England. This is Mexborough, Doncaster, South Yorkshire, England. It is south. it somehow southern england southern england this is a southern part of england this is mexborough doncaster south yorkshire england it is south south yorkshire not south england this is kind

of north central england okay from the way england is england looks like an ice cream sundae with a few melty scoops leaning to the left that's what england looks like there's like a cup and then it's melty london's in the cup this is up in the melty part uh this is uh i think this is we always hear uh in england we hear like whenever there's anybody who's like starting a crazy political movement it's always coming from the north or something so i feel like this is like the south of england this is their south this is where they like that's where the cuckoo pots this is where it's like yeah you're like oh jesus yeah're going to get a ticket if you drive through there, boy. It's one of those.

I'm not sure, but that's the vibe I got off of it anyway. What's the place called? Mexborough, Doncaster, South Yorkshire, England. My fuck, that's a lot of words. I think Mexborough's the town, Doncaster's the region, and then South Yorkshire's the province, and then England's your country. There you go. So in this one, the scoops are the panhandle yeah what it looks like and this is dead central panhandle right in the middle of it oh

yeah this is this is uh you know alabama england sure sort of i guess it's three hours and 15 minutes down to london so far the way far away from there about 45 minutes to leeds oh and two hours and 10 minutes to great linford which was our last english episode episode four episode 17 back in may of 2017 my word it's been a while i missed you we missed you it's we have mostly american listenership so when we do an overseas episode the listeners try they're like i don't care about England. So that's why we don't do it generally. But fuck it, I guess. Right. Let's go. The postal code district is S64.

S. Whatever the S64. Put some letters in there. And the dialing code is 01709. I don't know what the hell that means. What is it? The dialing code. I was right.

0179? 01709. Isn't that 1079? I don't know. Why do you that 1079? I don't know. Why do you dial the zero? I don't know. Well, that's part of the code. It seems like you'd leave it off.

Right. I mean, if your number is blah, blah, blah, 0345, you don't just put 345. I guess. I guess you have to use the zero. History of this town. We're not going to do much history here because it goes back so far. This isn't like Florida where we're like, yeah, 150 years ago, they said, hey, look at this beach. This is nice.

This shit is old. The next borough is located on the northeastern end of a dike known as the Roman Ridge. That's thought to have been constructed by either Brigantine tribes in the first century A.D., perhaps as a defense against the roman invasion of britain i can't even fathom this is what we're talking about we're talking so old that that wall might have been built to keep the romans out like that's how fucking old we're talking about wow uh jesus and after the or maybe it could have been after the fifth century to defend the british kingdom of elmet from the angles so either one of those though either way super old so old they don't even exactly know how shit happened i do know

that europe loves to laugh at us when we celebrate like some 50 years old history yeah our quote unquote history that's cute that's adorable we had laws and you people lived in caves yeah shut the fuck up you you were living in the woods. Eating squirrels for dinner. Right. We were writing on parchment while you guys were hammering chiseling in your cave walls. We had the most powdery wigs you could ever find. You guys were making tree houses. What's going on here?

Killing animals and putting them on your head as a hat. That's what you were doing. Then you guys were chasing down. Tail dangling down and everything. Chasing down an animal is a hat. That's what you were doing. And you guys were chasing down... Tail dangling down and everything. Chasing down an animal with a rock and we actually had a civilized society. That's what they're saying. You guys got over there and you did shit.

We sent the dregs, we know. We know what you were doing. We let the worst of us go over there. You had firearms, they just weren't bright enough to figure them out. How nice is it that you guys are all descendants of the worst of us? Yeah, there you go. Enjoy.

Have fun, everybody. That's hysterical. Oh, man. Jesus. So the earliest, Jesus, there's written references to Mexborough found in 1086 AD and books and shit like that. It's pretty goddamn crazy here uh following the conquest the area fell under the control of norman baron roger debulsi or debusli i'm sorry the remains

of an earthwork in castle park are thought to have been a uh a castle constructed in the 11th century this is how this place is old like you can go around people in in the u.s like kids will go around dig up and like one in a million they'll find like an arrowhead oh my god it's an old arrowhead you can find a castle from the 11th century just digging a little bit it's goddamn crazy man uh they had a society there a consumer cooperative called the Rochdale Pioneers in the 1840s. Nine men, nine working men met together to figure out what they want to do. The aim

of the society was to supply the people the necessary things of life. That's what they said. They had to have a society for like a membership thing. Society for the necessities. You guys want to eat and have shelter? Me too. You guys like clothes? Yeah.

Hey, wow. We have a lot in common. We should meet like on Wednesdays. What do you think? I'll bring pizza. Quote unquote necessities. That seems to, that's a broad umbrella. Some people have higher necessities.

Yeah. I'll bring pizza. You bring beer. How's that? That's how we'll do it. So it's even. Yeah. Bring enough for everybody too.

We only have one beer each. James' necessities include weed. Yeah. Who's bringing that shit? Who's bringing that? That's what I mean. We only have one beer each. James' necessities include weed. Yeah, I'd like to ask him. Who's bringing that shit? Who's bringing that? That's what I mean. I don't see that anywhere. They're going to bring mead and ale and all sorts of shit with cider.

Cider and mead and ale. But they're not going to bring any goddamn weed for me. Right. You can have mead but not weed. Okay, fine. Have a seat, James. Hey. Enjoy your mead.

England. Less mead, more weed mead more weed okay everybody thank you that's what i ask of you so uh 1903 landed and purchased in the middle of mecksborough and they were going to build a big central store and then uh the the whole thing went belly up kind of after that the cooperative had the cooperative with the people and they were going to build this big central store i'm trying to It was like a big hippie commune, almost. They were trying to do it in the 1800s, but it didn't quite work out there. For a few hundred years, the Railway Locomotive Maintenance and Stabling Depot was the major employer here.

Really? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's a blue-collar type of place. There was a lot of coal traffic. They were bringing coal through there, left and right right and there was coal around there also this is virginia england that's it's west virginia england that's kind of what it is yeah i said alabama it's more west virginia though yeah it's kind of up in the hills too holy yeah a little coley here uh the uh mexborough was chosen for as the the site for this big depot and uh in the 20s was when it was like

kind of in its in its heyday and the depot closed in 1964 and that followed kind of the demise of the coal mining industry there in the 1980s and uh they kind of had to mexborough had to figure out much like parts of the united states are still trying to figure it out how to go away from that and into something else. So it's kind of you got to find a pivot and transition. That's why you end up with the kind of what it feels like a West Virginia situation here. I found hard. Couldn't find reviews of the town, but I did find a review of a pub bar restaurant here, which I found hilarious.

I have to I'm not going to say the name of it because who knows how accurate this is. It's still open. Yeah, otherwise I'm going to have to find a five star to balance it out. I'm not going to do that. So having not been to this restaurant, we'll call it, for many years we thought we'd give it a go as a family this Sunday. What a mistake. I want to hear how British people complain

about restaurants. I hear a lot of American people bitching and complaining. It's the same exact review. Out of five of American people bitching and complaining. It's the same exact review. Out of five of us, not one happy bunny. That's different. See, I've never heard that in an American review. Happy bunny? Happy bunny.

Not one happy bunny! Exclamation point. Okay. Yeah. Four of us had carveries, which that's like a... A sandwich? That's like a buffet. Oh.

Like you go up and they carve like a turkey sandwich or a gyro. Yeah, they have like, they call them joints over there, like a big roast. Like a big roast and they'll carve you off. Here's some ham, here's some roast beef and you get mashed potatoes and gravy. I remember this on the, how about that? Hubba Hubba. The Inbetweener. Yes, the Carvery.

At the first place they went. When they went to a pub and he's like, we'll have three Carverys. I like my alcohol with gravy. That's what all the women... Hey, Simon, pretty cool. You're buying all of them. Yeah, so that's what's going on.

Four of us had Carverys. This might be Simon and Will and Jay and Neil. I'm not positive. It could be. That's four Carvery arteries uh if that's what you can call it uh-huh oh boy they're not happy after waiting for five minutes in five minutes i will not have this five minutes five okay in line the woman who was stood behind the counter offered no uh ex exaltation i think he means explanation uh to why we were waiting but their computer

spell checks to exaltation which i feel must be british because half of our listeners are going what does that mean they're looking it up right now that's a very the only time i've ever heard that word is in church he exalted that or like about like uh royal things the exalted high right high you know dipshit fucking asshole shit lord. Right. It's always about somebody that is deemed to be better than us. King shit of fuck mountain. The exaltation.

Jesus Christ. It's an old Mr. Show thing. Is it? Bob Odenkirk, king shit of fuck mountain. I think he was being a dirty preacher when he said that 25 years ago. There's also a country song. The guy says, I'm a king turd of shit mountain. If you want it, you can have the crown.

Okay. No. Yeah. Bob Odenkirk's being a dirty preacher. And he goes, I don't give a shit if you're king shit of fuck mountain. God damn it. The Lord can save you. He exalts it.

He exalted on high. Yeah. There's always a hot high exalted it's always one of those like a sultan thing yeah so uh yeah uh offered no explanation as to why she was there as to why we were waiting while she was there when she decided to serve she slopped on everything not mean like a normal carvery but through the veg and disgusting stuffing down as well not the veg my father-in-law had a meal from the menu which unlike him he left most of it as as it was so stodgy oh boy yeah stodgy is kind of like a thick shitty like a like a pasty kind of stodgy as yeah i've seen

in kitchen nightmares it's like stodgy is a word they throw around we did not worry when it came out after only five minutes of ordering. And on top of it, we may as well have eaten in the dark as there was so little lighting. Wow. That's my favorite. That sounds downright American. Yeah. People in this town, 15,244.

So a decent sized town. The numbers are pretty normal as far as everything goes. Median age here is about 39. So there's that. 96% of the people who live here were born in england in this town which is pretty wild here um and the other country the other uh top answers for country of birth were scotland one percent which i mean over here we're like yeah it's all the same assholes part of it uh wales which is all the same assholes ireland it's all the same ass part of it i get it you guys like no no politically we get it but you're all lumped into the same sunday is what we're getting at to

the rest of the world we go it's all melted together we don't know fuck your brexit i don't care we don't know yeah all the same little south africa 0.01 uh yanks here so that's interesting yeah some americans two guys walking around how about that uh yeah religion here 66 percent of people here are religious so maybe it is the west virginia okay uh but they're not i feel like in england even the religious aren't too they're not you got the irish catholic over there scottish it's not like here though yeah the religion there is not like they're they leave it at church and they go home and they're normal i feel like whereas here they're they're still talking about fire and brimstone in the car on the way home.

Martha, the fire and brimstone. Over there, they'd be like, calm down. I'm going to stop at a Carvery now. Let's relax. Stop at a Carvery and have some stodgy shit. Have some stodgy potatoes. Christians make up 25% of the religion. No religion is 0.3%.

So there's that. Muslim make up 0.1%. 0.1% Buddhist. 0.3 percent so there's that uh muslim make up uh 0.1 percent uh 0.1 percent buddhist 0.1 percent hindu and then atheists uh also 0.1 atheist and then out of uh 1013 people wouldn't state their religion 37 people 37 identified as a jedi knight get the fuck out of here that's in their fucking actual statistics 37 people identified as a jedi knight in this town 37 people are 37 bitches to disney 37 men live in their mother's basements in this town and identified themselves as jedi knights and they asked mom when the joint would be ready so it's about uh 41 for one percent married so that's low compared to the u.s uh here uh there's some widows i don't know how to get the percentage they just give me a

number of widowed people that doesn't help me any the fuck do i look like over here i'm gonna do the math now uh there's uh the jobs here there's a lot of like school jobs and skilled trades and customer service and things like that not a a lot of professional white-collar shit going on here. Super blue-collar. It's a blue-collar type of place. 5.6% unemployment in Doncaster, which is high for the U.K. The rest of the U.K. is just over 4%. So this area is in transition.

Average salary here is £31,000 a year. Here, that's about $ 000 american so uh the average home price here is about 130 400 or 747 pounds about 160 000 here that's affordable it is that's what i mean it's a low and i looked at the houses it's hard to find like a real mansion in this area like they're not really around when you say average income is that i think that's per person i hope so if it's household you can get by on 75 grand now if that sounds good to you i think it's time to go there we have for you the mexborough duncaster south yorkshire england real estate report All right, here we go. I found three places.

Here's one you can see. It looks like a West Baltimore row house. It doesn't look great. It looks like The Wire. It looks like the house they tried to get the old lady out of when they were making Hamsterdam. That's what it looks like, a row house. It is a two-bedroom, one-bath.

It is a formerly foreclosed terraced house Ideal for first time buyers 75,000 pounds It looks like South Chicago Yeah it does not look great I found this one, this looks nice It's a small house but two bedroom, one bath They all look like a fucking Very picturesque

Like a Disney fucking village It rains there This house, nice nice yard Doesn't look like West Baltimore 125,000 pounds. That's nice. A little extra. Then I found kind of the pimp house of Doncaster here.

My word. Of Mexboro. It's very nice. Four bedroom, detached house. It says there's only one bath, but I don't know how you can have four bedrooms and one bath. That seems terrible. The real estate listing says, is this real life or is this just a fantasy?

I don't know. 600,000 pounds for this fantasy. Isn't that a Queen lyric? Yeah. It's just fantasy. Yeah, it is. It is. What the fuck?

Yeah. He left out Bohemian Rhapsody. Right. Very nice there. That's how we're going to sell the house. I hate you. Fuck it. We'll let Freddie Mercury sell it.

The house won't sell. Right. I bet Freddie Mercury could sell it all house won't sell right i bet freddie mercury could sell it all right people love freddie mercury you tell you all right so things to do here in this town i found the mexborough music festival and uh this i love oh god the mexborough music festival all i could find was the the posting and listing from 2018 so we're going to pretend like that's happening this year because it's canceled this year anyway oh for sure so it doesn't matter okay in 2018 it tells us that founding member of 80s rock legends saxon

returns to where it all began is that a rock it's a metal band from the 80s that was like second not even second tier it's third tier it was opening for somebody not in the early 80s but then like because they were like real whatever but then like when metallica got big and all that then they were like saxon went down but like the real medley people were like saxon man but no like nobody will listen you know legends well for this area probably christ uh oliver dawson saxon will headline the first ever Mexborough music festival. Maybe it's just not happening anymore to be held at Mexborough athletic sports club supported by local bands performing free of charge.

Of course they are. It's fucking open mic night. That's how you attract people before they're see all these people. They all came, showed up, loaded their vans, got all their equipment here, set it up. It's really a whole day's worth of work for free.

That's how good they are. That's how you want to advertise this. We lost all of the budget for entertainment on Saxon. So if anybody would just like to get some stage time, come on out. Come on out. Whatever. It's like a poetry jam if you want to throw down there

and do some stand-up. The event is being supported by local businesses including Mezza Pizza who have funded the hire of the main stage and sound system. The lineup will include

many local favorites and regulars at the Imperial Brewery who are also sponsoring the event. Oh, boy. Tickets are starting at five pounds

and it says, where else will you be able to see this list of fine bands here? Well, it sounds like at the Ale House. Yeah, it's got to be at the Imperial Brewery here. Oliver Dawson Saxon, of course, of Saxon. So long, Astoria. I don't fucking know.

Peace out, Astoria. The Zephyls. I don't know what the hell that is. The Zephyls? That sounds like a British disease. It does. The Zephyls I don't know what the hell that is The Zephyls That sounds like a British disease It does The Zephyls mate I've got the Zephyls It makes me She was dirty mate

She was dirty How dirty was she? I got the Zephyls This is like anal sports They call They're everywhere mate I can't stop They call pimples spots

Yeah yeah That's good why not disgusting i don't know i got the sports the what that sounds like vd here right sounds like on your face that's terrible the hobbies of today which is apparently playing music for free in this fucking uh the inspectors just there to check everything out i'm sure i sure. The SBS Blues Band, I don't know what that means. The Rumble Strip will be there. That sounds gross. Okay.

It sounds like a bass tube or some car stereo equipment. It sounds like what we call my grandfather's chair. Call me a Rumble Strip. It's the Rumble Strip. And then Phoenix will be there yeah i don't know others yet to no no this is actual the inspectors i hope they all like have like like uh like bone have like lazy crazy busy like yeah names of these i just want them to wear those bowler hats i want them all to have names like here's gadget here's cluso that'd be great i want bowler hats

and benny hill running around as they sing everybody bumping into each other and like their name they like run off the stage and then come back in the other side you're like what the fuck just happened that's what i want that's like that's the band i'm looking for here now don't confuse this with the don valley festival which was previously known as the me borough and district music festival so don't confuse it with that so yeah that's this was established in 1912 right it was a real festival the other one's got local fucking bands now crime rate what we're interested in damn it the crime rate of this town it's not really rates but i found like the percentage of what kind of crimes happen, which I couldn't find here, which is very interesting.

Leading the way at 37.8% is violence and sexual offenses. Running away with it. Mount Rushmore crime there. And antisocial behavior is number two. I don't know if that's disorderly conduct over there or something like that, but it seems like it because that's very drunken public, stuff like that. That's 22.6%. Then it goes down to burglary at 5%,

public order at 6.5%, other theft, vehicle crime, shoplifting 7.8%, 6% criminal damage and arson. So there's that to worry about. I don't like that they classify it like this. It's uncomfortable. Only 0.9% robbery. That's not bad.

But wasn't there burglary? Oh, there's plenty of burglary but not a lot of robbery remember burglary is stealing from a place robbery is dealing with people stealing from people so yeah it's different that's it's a violent crime burglary is not a violent crime murder rape robbery and assault correct mount rushmore so with that said now that we've explored england once again we do hope that you find our ignorance charming you have a bunch of inspectors yeah goddamn inspectors now run around and chase each other with little billy clubs okay this is so weird it's so funny and the fact that we can do this is because english people are actually so fucking cool and have the nicest best sense of humor they get it they have a great sense of humor they've had shit happen in their country like

here we think we've had shit happen in their country in this country the nazis used to carpet bomb their biggest city right on a fucking nightly basis okay i get that that was like 70 years ago 80 years ago but that shit still lingers in the culture your grandparents tell you about it could happen tomorrow it's a thought. It gives you a fun, dark sense of humor where you're not too hung up on yourself. You're like, yeah, this is funny. Whereas Sarah Mississippi's like, how dare y'all? Y'all don't get it.

Anniston, Alabama's like, how dare you talk about our town? It's like, your town's a shithole. Sorry, I read all about it. PCBs in your drinking water. You can't rinse your face off at night without getting cancer what are you talking about you are white people's flint michigan that's right yeah southern flint so that said let's talk about a murder a good old-fashioned english murder this is good stuff didn't happen you know too far wasn't like the 40s or anything or not jack the ripper era happened in the 1980s as a

matter of fact but this is a the english love a nice murder they're good in this this case i found after i did all my research on it that a couple other podcasts have done it here there i don't know which ones but a few of them here there and i was like i don't give a shit it's a funny story and we're gonna tell it i spend so much fucking time finding oh someone else one one podcast did this two years ago so then we can't talk about no just because two idiots we don't know talked about something for 45 minutes doesn't mean that we can't talk about it that's not the they're not the whoever i don't even care who it is it's not that's not the the end all be all we can talk about it too sure eat dicks so as long as it's not jack the ripper that's what i'm saying and

this is not jack the ripper although he really wanted to be really oh that was his idol that's his thing which is a stupid thing see there's a thing about jack the ripper the reason why if you're a serial killer he idolized many serial killers like he was they were his idols into it yeah a guy named peter suck cliff who was the yorkshire ripper we'll talk about him for a minute here. But he idolized these people. But really, the only serial killer anyone who's in that game should idolize is Jack the Ripper. Because why? Because you know who he is yet? No.

No. And that shit happened 130 years ago. And you still don't know who the hell he is. He's obviously very dead. That's amazing. Yeah. So don't idolize anybody else. He's the guy.

At one point, he said, i want to be famous like jack the ripper he ain't famous no one knows who he's the least famous person alive jack the ripper and the zodiac's the same i was gonna say those are the only two people you should go is him and zodiac otherwise anybody else you're really you're you're what are you idolizing failure yeah you're idolizing jail fuck that apparently so it's terrible but i think that sounds terrible but i think a lot of them idolize fame is what it is. They idolize the infamy. It's the notoriety.

It's the notoriety of the whole thing. But yeah, Jack the Ripper couldn't be like, yeah, that's me. He could bask in it, but he had to do it silently. He couldn't be telling people about it. Look how cool I am. I'm Jack the Ripper. They gave me an awesome name. It's not a pickup line.

No, it's not. Which is tough, because if you are a pickup line no it's not which is tough because if you are a killer okay if that's your ball game you're into killing right that's what you're going to be the best at it they give you a cool ass nickname like jack the ripper right and the whole city's petrified of you and people are scared beneath the fog and the all this shit how fucking amazing is that if you're a killer right you that had to be so tempting to just be like it's me i'm jack the ripper fuck yeah can't even put it on a business card no because you're a sick fuck it's not like you're embarrassed about it you're probably probably not

even jack yeah he just reads oh they keep talking about how good i am at cutting people and shit like it's amazing. Everything about him was like, other than he's a bad person for doing this, it was like, he somehow does it silently. He somehow does it without anyone seeing. His cuts are like a doctor. How would you feel great about yourself if you were a murderer? I'm the best at this. Especially if you're like a news deliverer or some shit and you're like, I cut like a doctor?

I'm amazing. How cool am I? Look at me. I didn't even go to school this is no practice maybe i should go to medical school they are going to use me for movies in the future they are going to do it no it's it's weird though i think like a killer would be very proud of that fuck yeah and be have to want to out themselves but not not not not jack not him whoever that is. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts onto us so uh let's talk about a young man here let's talk about a young man here. Let's talk about a young man named Anthony Paul Arkwright. Anthony. Antony.

Hey, Antony. That's what they do in England. No, that's what they do in Italian in New York. It's Antony. It's Antony there. Antony happens a lot, but in New York, it's Antony. Right. It's a different thing.

Hey, Antony. Anthony Paul, which immediately makes me think his last name is going to be like galliano or some shit you know something very italian instead it's what it's arc right a-r-k-w-r-i-g-h-t like that yeah he went with the long way yeah for the for right completely jesus go with the w-r and the g-h-t basic bitch spelling lee l-e-i-g-h yeah fuck you exactly like it's their fault right no i mean it's their fault j-i-m-m-i-e i mean like a basic bitch naming her daughter ashley a-s-h-e-l-e-i-e-l-e-i-e yeah you're right my mom did it because i was named after my goddamn grandfather somebody asked that why

is jimmy named somebody tweeted that why does jimmy spell his name like that it's like because he's family or hillbillies that's why that's the hillbilly spelling how many there's nascar drivers with that spelling that's the only other people in society and jj walker that tells you something yeah it's either a black guy or a nascar driver dino right that's it that's who spells it like no one else damn it either cool black guys or unbelievably white trash hillbillies or hillbillies one or the other just see my pigment yeah we know which one you know where i was pretty pretty clear on where jimmy ends up on that on that scale it's at the one end yeah not at the other no so arkwright is born in 1968 all right he's born in 1968 and uh he's the middle child of uh five siblings so you know two in front two and back and uh you know very hard to be to be a young italian boy and he's not italian how great would it be if he

was i would love if this story was about an italian immigrant named anthony anthony paul who came to england and no one understood him and he got very angry and murdered a bunch of people why why you not listen to me why i don't i don't understand i remember when that uh gwyneth paltrow uh started having like a british accent because she was with the dude from coldplay yeah yeah she was madonna's been doing that for 20 years yeah yeah yeah same thing uh so gwyneth paltrow was giving anthony hopkins an award and because she was with the coldplay guy she was like doing the whole british thing and she called him anthony and i wanted to reach through the tv and strangle her no his name is sir anthony hop first of all madonna all, Madonna's a fucking guinea from Detroit.

Right. All right? Listen, sweetheart. Right. You know what I mean? You ate your fucking Sunday pasta like every other one of us. You had meatball sauce dripping down the front of your shirt. You're from Detroit.

Shut the fuck up. I'm speaking to you from one to another. Paisan to Paisan. Paisan to Paisan. Paisan to Paisan. Shut the fuck up. There you go. Say it in a language you should be able to understand. Fucking guidette in your bathtub with your rose petals.

Shut the fuck up. All that hairspray in the 80s. It's because you're a guidette. That's what that was. It wasn't because you were hip. It wasn't because you was hip, sweetheart. This is what all your friends named maria did that's which is her fucking middle name marie like every other italian girl just like you

are very talented you're not english though talented is one thing you can't successful you can make yourself you can will yourself you cannot will yourself to be british you just can't very much like she can't will herself to dance well no that's the truth too so anthony paul i just picture my friend uh i worked at this restaurant with every all the waiters were from italy except for me yeah and we had this new guy who was he was just straight off the boat and he was fucking hilarious because he spoke english well like he learned it in a school yeah but had no idea what any of the shit meant so he was so much fucking fun to play with so i just picture this guy yeah he had this look on his face all the time like he was like squinting he doesn't get it i don't know yeah but he would like he just dude oh but he would like me learning fractions just like what he would sing songs in opera and fuck them up like American songs.

One day, all right, quick sidetrack here. One day he comes in singing fucking Kenny Rogers, right? Hell yeah. Now imagine this Italian guy comes in and you just hear, You've got to know when to hold them. Know when to fold them. I'm not kidding. Know when to walk away. I'm not kidding. Go on. No winner to walk away.

You have to run. Okay, it gets better. You have to run. You've got to count your money sitting under the table. So we said, hold on. Marco, Marco, Marco. What was that lyric there? Are they sitting under the table?

You've got to count your money sitting under the table, he says. He said, so you're sitting on the table, not under the table, on the table. So he said, really? Why is that? He says, so they know you no cheat. That's why they make you, I guess, the cards you play, you sit on the table at the end. So you know I no cheat. You count in front of everybody, so they know, you know, it's all up and up.

I got that. Okay, sure, Margo. His interpretation of songs. Eminem was my favorite, though. One day we just hear, sorry, mama. We're like, whoa. What is he going to say now? I never mean to hurt you.

We're just like, oh my God. He's going to lame his hate miles. I never mean to make you cry. Cause tonight I'm cleaning out my closet. That's what he said. Unbelievable. So he said, you know that song Marco? He goes, yeah.

He said, it's Eminem. He goes, yeah, he's a nice boy. Swear to God. He goes, so you know what that song's song Marco? He goes yeah. He said it's Eminem you know. He goes yeah he's a nice boy. Swear to God. He goes so you know what that song's about Marco? He goes he's a nice boy. He loves his mama. He loves his mama. Oh boy does he.

Does he? He's gonna listen finally. He says nah I think you're fucking it up. I don't think you get it. He was wonderful. So anyway that's who you picture in this town. Yeah. He's walking through the

streets so arkwright's born in a kind of a shit environment middle of five kids isn't great anyway first of all i mean it's great if your family's fantastic and everybody gets paid attention to right but if you're having problems like him it's not like that uh he's behavioral problems between behavioral problems and problems in the home he ends up being kind of taken away and then put back and taken away and put in foster homes and i don't know how the social system in england works in the 70s especially because everything there has kind of changed a lot yeah you know the 70s they had a lot of i don't know they got a 5 000 year head start they should be pretty good head start. They should be pretty good at it. They do, yeah. They should be pretty good at taking care of orphans.

But then again, every British movie that starts out in an orphanage is terrifying. It's bad stuff. It's petrifying. There's water dripping. Someone's going to be beaten and flogged and put in a basement somewhere. It's not going to be good. It's going to be terrible, I feel like. So, yeah, he goes back between homes in Wath-

Oh, it's Wath-a in a wall. Watham. Oh, it's a Wath upon Dean. That's what it is. Wath. It's one word upon Dean. Oh, just the river. Everything's upon what it's on. Okay.

Yeah. That's how they do it. That's upon that. It's upon that. And then, uh, South York's as well. And, uh, he's, he has problems both behaviorally and kind of even as a small child with the law, you know, shoplifting shit like that. His main issue is that everybody in town, apparently, and he takes this to heart. Everybody in town, there's rumors that his dad isn't actually his dad.

Oh, no. And in fact, it gets worse. Much like Marco's interpretation of Emin in fact it gets worse uh much like marco's interpretation of eminem it gets worse yeah uh not only does is his dad not his dad but his dad according to the legend here his real this isn't true by the way but he thinks his real dad is his mom's father so he thinks he is the product oh that's of an incestuous relationship between his grandfather and his mother which is not true which did not happen how did he learn that somehow that became the rumor around town because their family's kind of fucked up it's much like a stevie situation

where you know if you went around in the stevie documentary the one thing they don't do is go around and talk to all the local people. Right. They talk to a couple people Stevie encounters, but I'd love to just have some random lady on the street. Hey, do you know the fielding house over there? Blah, blah, blah. I'd be like, oh, Christ, those people. And they would tell you all the rumors that everybody, oh, I hear this happened and that happened. How fun would that documentary be?

That would be great. Never interview Stevie or his family. That'd be awesome. Just the people in town. That's the follow-up I want. Just the people in town town going what do you think of steve jesus christ i've seen him walking around i'd go in my house i'd go right in off the porch if i saw him walking by walk right past his family and interview the people on the other side that's it right past him so right away he's got a weird kind of anger thing and uh if you're the kid that like everybody's

kind of pointing at and laughing at and shit that's never good for anybody it's never good for their future you're never going to develop correctly no they're either going to be a very powerful like ceo or they're going to be a on our show yeah one of the two there's only two ways that can go one way or another they're going to bethroat they're gonna be cutthroat yeah one way or another you're gonna hear about them you're gonna know these motherfuckers exist right because that's their that's their thing is oh yeah i'm this and i'm that i will show you that i exist and that's what ends up happening you can either do that in a good way or bad way so he's very very just he's very everybody just describes him as very disturbed as a child. He's known as a weird kid, just disturbed, says creepy shit like he's very much childhood, like kind of like a lot of people describe Ted Bundy, where he was just kind of off a little bit.

You hear that a lot about Ted Bundy, like he was just off, you know, like he would try to blend in and stuff but he was just something about him was a little just he just didn't quite fit in there i don't remember much he's not a normal person ted's childhood did he have friends yeah yeah but he also had a thing where he was he was off a little bit he's just a little off and he was kind of outside of everybody or like dommer had the same thing where he was a you know he was like he made himself the clown right as a spectacle rather than just be the weird guy everybody picked on which is a weird thing for him too because he was drunk as fuck

at school how do you do that strange I don't understand like drawing attention to yourself when you're like when you're fucking hammered yeah that's not good I couldn't help it he was hammered probably he's just a fun drunk party party man what do you want? He's a party, man. What do you want from him?

Sometimes he brings hors d'oeuvres. I mean, I wouldn't eat them. No. But they're there. He is polite. Yeah. He does prepare them. They were tough and salty.

Freezers packed with stuff. They were tough and salty. I wonder what those were. You never know. I wonder what those were. It's a little rubbery but i'm not gonna very salty very it's all very salty unbelievable well that's because there's jizz on it everything has a fine jizz glaze atop it that's why it looks like it would have been sweet it's not it's what's

all it's finely glazed it's like a donut so yeah uh Eventually he gets expelled from school. And, you know, once he's expelled from school and he's drifting from foster home in and out of these places, you know, obviously there's not a lot. There's not a lot of guidance there and a lot of, you know, straight direction for him. He's he becomes a really big kind of petty criminal around town. He's he's he's burglarizes everybody's known for breaking into shit for stealing bicycles for stealing shoplifting you end up doing that too because the guidance that you're offered feels more like lecturing and like yelling at and you're

like fuck you i'm not gonna do that especially if you have no you don't have a structure where you can look up to anybody to where you're you know what i mean so you don't have like a thing where sometimes authority figures aren't terrible and sometimes they're trying to help me i don't have a structure where you can look up to anybody to where you're, you know what I mean? So you don't have like a thing where sometimes authority figures aren't terrible and sometimes they're trying to help me. I don't think he has that in his head at all. And then with the system, there's no reward for good behavior and good work. What's your reward? Go back to the same shit place that you hate and eat the gross food that you hate. Yeah, and enjoy being in the middle of five kids. I have a bicycle.

It used to be somebody else's, but today it's mine. Well, also, too, this gets him known around town for something other than being the kid whose grandfather fucked his mother. That's the other thing, which he'd rather be known as he goes around,

he becomes a violent bully. He starts bullying kids and even bullying adults and shit like that. Shaking people down for money, robbing people, things of that nature because now he's that guy you're scared of.

Not, oh, that's the kid whose grandfather banged his mom. So he changed his perception. I got to give him that. As far as it goes, if he wanted to change his perception, mission accomplished. I mean, fucking, you know, do it up. Although the Kuklinski Road is not very traveled. And it only ends in specific places. That's the truth.

And this is how he started also. This is. This is. Except he had a, Kuklinski had a calmer demeanor where he wasn't like, I want to be famous for this. Kuklinski was like. He didn't go out of his way to beat people up. He was like, I don't mind killing people, and I got to support my family somehow.

Right. I mean, that takes up a lot of my time anyway. And you're not going to believe it. Murder pays really well. Well, he did it like a woman who makes bracelets or fucking earrings or something. And she's like, I made them on the side. And I was like, this is my passion. And I'm good at it.

So I decided, why shouldn't I do this for a living? I'm starting my company. I'm going to do this. Opening an Etsy shop. It's happening right now. He's the Kate Spade of murder. That's what he is. I'm starting my company. I'm going to do this. Opening an Etsy shop. It's happening right now. He's the Kate Spade of murder. That's what he is. That's what he is.

He's made some nice stuff. That's how I feel about it, though. Gets his own bodega. Damn it. This is for me. Right. I'm going to do this. Until I can do this on Fifth Avenue.

Set it all up. A lot of petty crime. A lot of stints in Borstal, which is a young offender institution there. It's like a juvie, basically. So he does a bunch of stints in juvie and then eventually goes to adult jail in and out. This is all the way up until the time he's 21. Just an in and out mess. Stevie, basically.

English Stevie is exactly who you can fucking put this on except he seems to not diddle children yeah so far so or at all there is no children being diddled in this episode i promise you that very manson-esque too oh he he idolized him too he thought he was oh he thought he was great yeah i mean manson didn't find out who his dad was until late that's the thing it. It's the same type of origin story. But he idolizes anyone who's gotten really famous without... Because murder's an easy way to get famous. I mean, it's not easy to kill someone, but it's easier than winning a Grammy.

Yeah. It's easier than starting a Fortune 5. It's easier than starting a major company. It's easier than having a stand-up career yeah you know you don't have to work at something for like 10 years and not get paid murder is like you do it and it's done you paid off there you go you're a pro all right day one you can kill on your first try first try and you're a pro day one boom so there's really few other things that you can do that with. Comedy takes a while to kill. Yeah, it takes forever. You can kill immediately in this. No, but it is that, where it's like this is the easiest way to become famous, infamous, whatever.

Who gives a shit? So, yeah, a lot of burglary, theft. He had an arson charge, even. I don't think it was like an unoccupied structure. I don't think he was burning a person out of their home. But still, some violence, some just property crimes, whatever. But by 21, he is out on his own. He's not in the children's homes anymore.

He's not in any of that. He's not ward of the state anymore. He's an adult. He's his own person. He gets his own apartment, which is a council flat which i believe is like a government subsidized uh housing there step though it's your own place your own place it's better than uh yeah it's better than a foster home or a jail or a jail this is in uh wathapon dean is where he has his flat he's he does a bunch of jobs man i mean he's not he's

not a guy who can really hold a steady job and move up the chain of command. It's not his style. Much like a Stevie, you know, he's going to drift in, get pissed off at something, tell his boss to go fuck himself, and then go away. He's going to give him the V thing that the fucking British do. They say they're dismissive in such creative ways. Oh, they're great. I love it. It's wonderful because they use completely different adjectives than we do it's just a whole other language of insult i just enjoy it a lot would you please take some time out of your day today and go ahead

and fuck yourself yeah it's very nice i like i like how they they lead up to it yeah not everybody you guys have your morons too sure i've seen soccer hooligans speak and i'm like jesus christ i saw that british uh unhealthy show whatever it was on oh yeah yeah there are some dummies yeah yeah there's some you guys have trash too don't get us wrong believe me i'd like to know what you call them you're trash though they don't like advertise how trashy they are as a as like a badge of honor like our people do or bogans in australia yeah yeah exactly exactly so he uh yeah a lot of menial jobs shit like that just bouncing from shit job to shit job to shit job much like the soul sucker in our bonus episode last week and if right now you're typing out a tweet that says we call our trash americans you can delete that yeah we get

it thank you we already made that joke earlier remember when we made that joke yeah right that's how that works so he idolizes specifically and he tells people this he tells like his drinking buddies and shit he's like i'm gonna be like peter suck cliff man like what what are you doing like in paul isn't that cool and they're like yeah okay now if you don't know peter suckliffe is he's the yorkshire ripper anyone who's british isn't going to know this very well but if you're american you might you don't know shit so we'll fill you in we'll assume that you don't know anything and we'll fill you in uh they uh he was convicted in 1981 of 13 murders of women and also trying to kill seven other women so lots of stuff there

he's serving at this point 20 concurrent life sentences uh seems like a good one wow it's sentences of life imprisonment which all meant he had parole dates and then in 2010 was it was increased to a whole life order they just said you're just not getting out now. So 30 years into his thing, they were like, we changed our minds. Fuck you. So he, I guess, initially would attack women and girls in residential areas.

And then he was like, you know what? Prostitutes are better. They're easier. No one goes looking for them quite as much. And they're just out there. I mean, regular women

who aren't working the street, you have to get them out of their house. These women are out there looking for men to talk to. So, you know, whatever. That's the way he looks at it himself. Anyway, he was really into prostitutes anyway. He used to go to Leeds all the time and pick prostitutes up. And that was kind of his thing.

Like, he'd get off of work and, you know, he couldn't find, had a hard time finding ladies to have a relationship with and he's not a terrible looking guy too that's the other thing he's not like stevie at all like you look at him and you go oh there's women who would be into him interesting but he's not if he's going around talking about how he loves the yorkshire ripper right and you know that's a tough uh i don't know in america you can get a girl like that alright then you can get a lot of girls like that I'll bet England's got them too you couldn't be drunk at the bar going that rip of the Yorkshire Rippers

he's a good shit huh you can't have alright alright you can't have that like that's not gonna work for you later on if you talk to him for a while and he was like I have to tell you you know what I'm interested in it's a little weird serial killers are so fascinating how do they get to do that then you can get women because they'll be like oh me too right but not just like all right dr rip was a good shit ain't

ain't he great ain't he great all right no it's not drunk as fuck so yeah he ended up carrying out these murders over five years um and that was that. And it was funny, too, because they're not funny, but they were very upset with the police that it took them five years to catch this guy and all that sort of shit here. Now, back to Anthony over here. Anthony, when he's in custody, what he does is read. That's all he does is read. Smart. Smart.

And we always say that reading is good and sometimes maybe it's not that's what i'm saying like in case of this guy what was he possibly reading isn't good he read everything he could about peter suck cliff and jack the ripper and every other serial killer he could read about why is that available to him well it's it's in the library why is that i don't know why that would be in the prison library because i know here they keep the library stocked with shit that does not have anything violent in it or anything like that i don't know if it's in england it's different or what but he was able to read about all of these jack the ripper about about uh peter suckliffe and during this too this is the 80s so this is when the ted bundy thing was happening as well so he was reading up on ted bundy going oh look at

this guy maybe those yanks aren't so bad. I mean, you know, he was really impressed with these people. And he talked about them all the time. He would just tell anybody who would listen that I am going to be Jack the Ripper someday. You wait and see. Oh, boy. You know, when you hear my name, you're going to think of all my horrible crimes like Jack the Ripper. Okay. People are like, yeah, sure. There's another thing, too, is a think of all my horrible crimes, like Jack the Ripper. Okay?

People are like, yeah, sure. Because the other thing, too, is a lot of times kids like this are big talkers. Right. You've known kids like this. They're big talkers because they don't have anything, so they make stuff up to make themselves feel important. You get it. They don't have anything. There it is right there.

Yeah, it's obvious. And especially when you don't have any attention at home, you've got to make a wild story that gets attention. What a badass you are and how cool. Yeah. It gets the, it satisfies that hunger for the interaction of human

and admiration. It gives you an identity of some kind, A, and it's an identity that maybe people fear a little bit and maybe they kind of

keep a step away from you which is what you want because, you know, you don't trust anybody anyway. Right. So it's all, all the psychology's there for it. It's mechanism as well as a as a survival tool yeah to keep people away no

absolutely um now he he was uh you know boasting to all these people finally like i said right around 21 is the last time he gets released from jail he's living in his place here. It's on Denman Road in South Yorkshire. And this is the area he was born and raised. And in this time, it's kind of a rural area out here. And he thought he was kind of this guy. He should have been American, this guy. He was like a survivalist. He was like one of these woodsy nuts that would, you know, someday we're all going be living in the woods and i'll be the guy with the you know knife in my teeth taking your

food from you they're gross one of those guys yeah it's very strange to define in england because we're all like i thought you were smarter than that that's why i look at someone i go you sound so much smarter than that i thought jesus christ they sounded so i don't know i don't know what they're doing they're sitting in the mud just like us everybody had 4.0s over here jesus christ how do you sip tea in here anyway so uh he would he thought he was that he would he built a bunch of like what he called dens like these little like cutouts these little caves like holes in the ground holes in the ground a little like he'd carve out of the side of a hill he'd carve out like a little fucking inlet he could sit in and shit and be like a lot of time yeah that's what i well he's menial jobs got nothing else to do he's got murder

on his mind i don't know how the rural england cable system was in the 80s he might not have had a very good things to watch but on the weekends he's digging holes i'm saying if you get this guy a satellite dish maybe none of this ever happens i'm just saying there's a lot of good shows that were coming on netflix could have saved some lives oh absolutely he'd have been like ah fuck it i'm gonna finish the tiger king i don't care that carol baskin is a bitch i'll tell you what yeah i want to be a murderer but first person i'm killing is that fucking bitch carol baskins that's what it would have turned him into idolize her it would turn him get caught yeah god damn it that's who you should idolize so he uh he would do do all these dens he would go out with a hunting knife and just hang out for hours just hang out and his people that knew him said he would just kind of tell them that he was fantasizing about

what he was going to do if he was attacked. Like if people were coming to kill him, he would hide in the woods. And oh yeah, when that guy comes over the hill, I'm going to do... No one's there. You're by yourself. He's got a plan for nothing. No one gives a shit about this guy. And he's acting like when the Russians come for me, obviously when they come for me, I'm

going to need to hide in a cutout in the mud, or else they'll catch me. But I'll take this knife, and I'll take down the whole force that comes for me. Nobody knows about Hitler Jr. that was just born. Oh, boy, I have him right here. He's in this hole in the mud. So he'd spend hours in there just dreaming about someone invading his area to attack them. He would do, like they said even

sometimes he would sleep out there in the summer oh no he'd just sleep out in the in the in the mud he hot boxed himself just sitting out there just a hole in the ground is cooler than out up the surface can be but i don't know how comfortable it is to sleep in the fucking mud and depends on if it's got a cover on it like you have a house bro yeah like yeah that's a good point go in the house flat yeah go in the house stupid out of here so his decisions are weird and his his whole mindset is a little bit weird uh throughout 1988 he found work for a while uh that he actually held for a few months at a scrapyard uh he was just a general laborer at a scrapyard in the Maxborough area. So this isn't a career, obviously.

This is minimum wage, probably hard work, coming home stinking and hurting and feeling like shit. And he's a meth head without the habit. That's what he is, basically. Yeah. Maybe the meth didn't make its way up there. That's the other thing. Maybe if meth was around, if he had meth

and a satellite dish, I swear to God, this whole thing would be averted. He would have just been too busy trying to get more meth and getting back to watch the Cosby show. That's all he would have cared about. Still watching The Office. Yeah. He'd be like, that Bill Cosby.

I don't know. Is it something like 87? Yeah. Bill Cosby. There's something about him I like. I mean, he comes off as this nice guy, but I see something in him that it's just i admire oh boy i admire him so august 26th 1988 he's working at the scrapyard lucky him and he's fired from his scrapyard job gets shit can basically for being a dick um he shows up drunk shows up late doesn't show up at all, mouths off. Can't do that.

You know, he's being himself. Right. And the scrapyard isn't taking a shit and they fire him. For some reason, he's been fired from every damn job or he quits or it's never. Yeah, they're never like, oh, you're leaving. Can we offer you a raise to stay? That's never been. What's it going to take to change your mind?

It's going to take to keep you. You're going to put you in the junior executive program. What the fuck, man? Jesus Christ. We just see a sparkle in your eye. I don't know what it is. So, yeah, he is not making it up the scrapyard ladder, and he's fired from the scrapyard for being a dipshit.

Now, he's sacked here, and they give him his last paycheck, and he takes it, and he goes out and gets shit-faced yeah he's gonna go drink up that last paycheck my man and find def honored that's that's a that's an honored tradition there to get fired and then go get hammered with the last of the money that you're gonna earn so i've done it not smart but also keeps people from losing their minds. You have to. I was 21, maybe 20. He's 21 right here. I've done it. 21 years old, same shit. And he gets shit-faced all afternoon.

So he is hammered by 4 o'clock. I mean, stumbling drunk by 4 o'clock in the afternoon, which is, you don't want to stumble out into that bright afternoon daylight like that whoa that's that'll make you reconsider your decisions it all seems fine in the dark of the bar i've been to a strip club at one in the afternoon and left at like four when you walk out shithoused and you're like oh my god i just spent how much to see what burning your skin what time and i've got to think about this for the next few hours? You feel like a vampire that shouldn't be in the sun, too, so you've got to walk.

And I've got to have this in my brain until I fall asleep. Like, if you go at night, at least you're like, ah, the sun was down. You're supposed to be doing bad things. Otherwise, you're like, I smell child abuse still. I still smell it. You walk out at a time that parents are picking up their children from daycare.

It's weird. It's a little weird. It's very weird. Well, unless they're coming from there with you to pick up their kids from daycare. So I don't mean they're abusing their children. I meant just to clarify. That's how they ended up there, a lot of people. So after he's drinking and about four o'clock he shit-faced and he uh he decides this is the time

god damn it yeah that bastard my grandfather that son of a bitch uh-huh it's time to go confront him about being my real father he shouldn't be fucking my mom he was fucking my mom yep and now i'm here right everybody knows about it yeah so when he's really drunk he gets like this no one's mentioned this in years but he's drunk and so this like comes to the surface and he goes i'm gonna go once and for all yeah tell that son of a bitch what he did and oh you know see if it's true right it's the thing about alcohol makes you think about the past oh yeah oh yeah that's why people call like old girlfriends at two in the morning and text them and shit, because in your mind, it's still there. Right. Like, oh, that's a warm feeling I had eight years ago.

I should be there again. I should call her and tell her I'm still thinking about her. Yeah, because I'm sure she's feeling exactly the same way right now. And her phone rings, and she goes, who the fuck? What? Why are you calling me? Why are you? Go away.

No. And they block you on everything, and that's the end of it. Sober up. That would be good. So he goes to his grandfather. His grandfather is 68 years old. His name is, wow, Stasro Pudakis. He's a Lithuanian immigrant.

Uh-huh. Yeah. So, you know, he's whatever. He's his grandfather's an older guy not in great health uh he stops by his grandfather's home and no one's there knocks on the door no one home so he goes i know where he is i'll find this motherfucker how dare he uh he heads to where his grandfather has what they call an allotment which is like if they have like these gardens it's kind of like you get like an allotment of land. And it's hard to explain.

But he's tending a garden, basically. It's somewhere away from his land where you get a little area where you can tend. Yeah. So he's got an allotment a mile away. That is wild. I don't know exactly how it works. That's a weird thing. Like I said, find our ignorance, Charming.

We don't know why you do that. Sounds nice. You know what you should do is put your garden in your back fucking yard. Well, if it's a weird thing. Like I said, find our ignorance, Charmy. We don't know why you do that. Sounds nice. You know what you should do is put your garden in your back fucking yard. Well, if it's a small yard. It's a little more convenient. But then they could have planned it better. Make a fucking garden you need. I think you could have planned it better.

Yeah. Probably then. Hey, all that area in the middle, maybe if we stretch everything out, we can get rid of that area, but give everyone else their own space. Although, on the in-betweeners, they just called their yard their garden. Everything was the garden. Everything was the garden. Yeah, everything. their garden their guy everything was the garden yeah everything you're right everything garden what bottom of my garden what are you talking about yeah everything we want to bang the girl in the garden it's your backyard yeah what are you talking about they talk well everything's

the garden everything is the garden there why is that i don't know you're obsessed with gardens a garden's where you grow fucking tomatoes and I suppose if you're growing grass, it's technically a garden. Maybe that's why. You call your fucking tulips your garden? That's not specific, though. Be more specific, man. That's the thing. You have all the words.

Use them. You made this. Yeah, you made them all. God damn it, use them. So he finds his grandfather tending to his vegetable patch. He's gardening. Old man gardening. That's sweet. He's gardening. Old man gardening. That's sweet.

That's nice. So his grandfather is not surprised to see his grandson. They're like, oh, why is he here? Or something like that. And his grandson pulls up. He's like, hey, how you doing? His grandfather, what he does is he turns around to greet Anthony. Hey, Anthony, how you doing?

Oh, it's Anthony. he's here look at this this is beautiful as he turns around anthony immediately starts stabbing him in the neck and face oh jesus takes a knife out and he starts hacking away at him uh knife face chest abdomen just hack hack hack one of the first uh wounds actually uh actually goes through in his neck and clips his spinal cord a little bit and pretty much puts him out unconscious and paralyzed but but still alive but unconscious and paralyzed his grandfather does there um so what he does then is he drags his grandfather into the shed which is at the allotment where he keeps his tools and shit like that where he takes a 14 pound hammer oh sweet jesus and proceeds to just bash his skull to shit right with this uh absolutely just fucking destroys him with a obviously that's a huge yeah

it's a huge thing there and then you know smashes his skull to pieces does all that and then he says okay well this isn't enough yeah we get this axe and he ends up just putting an axe in his chest in the last and leaves it there it's just crazy pow there we go that ought to do it oh my god uh you know no problem there so then he locks the body inside the shed and goes to his house to steal his money you know because he's so mad at him for well you know they can't use it anymore well he's not going to use it i guess his grandfather had 3 000 pounds at the house that was like his life savings good lord so what this poor working guy has managed to to scrimp together for his life so he takes the three thousand dollars now while

he's at the house stealing the money though someone else is there oh yes uh his father has a as a housekeeper as well or his father his grandfather as a housekeeper 72 year old elsa conradite okay and uh this is as he's coming back in he sees her there and he says well what the hell do i do here well guess i to kill her too. So he does. He smashes her skull in with an ax and leaves her dead in the kitchen of his grandfather's house. So now he's got a body

in the shed in the allotment. He's got a body in his grandfather's house. He's got 3,000 pounds in his pocket. Time to hit the night. Time to hit the bars. That's what he does. He spends the evening drinking, having a good time. That's a lot of money to spend on drinking yeah i don't think he spends at all

he's probably got a few bucks left over the next day shackles yeah a couple a little bit a couple of pence he goes he's got three or four quid left so he spends the evening drinking in pubs all around power hopping yeah hey he finally slayed the beast in his mind this is a this is a celebration right this is like when henry hill comes out of the courtroom and goodfellas the guy you broke your cherry and i'll give him money like that's how he feels like this is like oh man finally right breaking through pub crawl time pub crawl time so he uh the whole night too he's drawing attention to himself um attempts to start fights with several people oh he feels invincible oh yeah starts fights with people starts like telling people making

dropping hints about what happened like well hey i'm a killer you know that like stuff like that like to people he's gonna fight he's talking about like you don't want to you don't want to happen to you what just happened to somebody else who fucked with me like what i just did today and stuff like that where people are like whatever but he's one of these guys he's a big talker he's trying to make himself and that's how people think of him he yaps yaps yaps nobody pays attention he's a drunken idiot he's an asshole and i'm sure he probably got thrown out of every bar before he went into a new bar people don't understand that the air of mystery of what somebody could possibly do to you is much more powerful than knowing what somebody can possibly do. Like, there's a dude that works...

Unless you know they're like a heavyweight MMA fighter or something, and you're like, oh, God, he could twist my head off. That's not great. I know a dude that works in soccer in Arizona that is a fucking terrifying man that just has rumors about what he'll do to you. Yeah, that helps. Bad man. And I'll never fuck with that do to you yeah that helps bad man and

i'm not i'll never fuck with that man yeah that helps that i'd rather have that mystery of like i heard that he did this i heard that he did that rather than i saw him do this well yeah you don't want nearest scary no well unless it's something horrifying unless you yeah unless he smashed his grandfather's head in with a 14 pound hammer then you go oh my but he doesn't tell anybody that no he can't he's just dropping hints and everyone just thinks he's just it's just him talking like always it's this asshole who talks yeah yeah we know all right whatever and then they go his grandfather fucked his mother that's why he's messed up in the head yeah that's kind of it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart

and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder,

decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. How it works here.

So, yeah, he goes out drinking, hanging out. how it works here so uh yeah he goes out drinking hanging out um people one person called him a quote wild-eyed weirdo that was that seemed to be kind of just craving attention and trying to make a spectacle of himself one of the bar patrons who didn't know him uh there so that same day all shit-faced he tells one of his neighbors that he was going to, quote, kill that bastard Marcus Law, who he saw. He's a friend of his named Marcus Law. Not a friend, an acquaintance who lives nearby, who he sees at a bar. And he tells his friend while he's shit-faced, I'm going to kill that bastard Marcus Law

right there, that son of a bitch motherfucker. Doesn't do anything to him in the bar, doesn't even confront him or talk to him or anything, but he's just telling him that that guy's a son of a bitch and he's a bastard i'm gonna quote kill that bastard is what he said so that night he goes home obviously shit-faced sleeping it off at 8 a.m police knock on his door yeah uh whoa hey oh if you're him that would be a those cops out there oh shit i'm in trouble uh oh boy i did a lot of bad stuff yesterday like waking up like jim carrey in the mask yeah what the fuck it's not great uh so they knock on his door and they place him under arrest for suspicion of

burglary oh not of murder they have no fucking idea about anything that he did. They arrest him on a completely unrelated thing, a burglary at a guy named Raymond Ford's house earlier in the week. Raymond Ford will talk about they've had a relationship. Basically, Anthony likes to terrorize this guy, Raymond Ford breaks in his house all the time, steal shit, but he just fucks with him constantly. So Raymond had finally called the cops on him and had enough. He's like Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon and grumpy old men. If one of them wasn't participating. If it was just one of them just bombarding another guy with a fish in the car and steal his girlfriend. Suck his roof in the winter.

Make all his shit go. The other guy's just like, why are you doing this? I'm just trying to live my life. We've never even met. They put your mail in my box one time. I brought it right over. Why? I don't get it.

What if one wasn't participating? That's what it was. I want to see that show. That'd be an amazing show. That's just called Asshole Old Man. There's one old man. Inconsiderate old prick is what it's called. This is called rooting for death.

Yes. Someone tried to kill their neighbor. Can't wait for that old man to die. Jesus Christ. So it's a burglary at this Ford guy's house. Finally, the cops have caught up to him for it. They knock on the door at 8 a.m. They yank him out.

You're under arrest for the burglary. So he goes down to the office, goes down to the police station, says, I don't know what you're talking about, whatever. He gets bailed out. He can bail himself out. Small bail. It's just a burglary charge. It's nothing major. So he's released from jail, released from the police station.

So they had a guy who was just bludgeoning two people to death and stabbed and cut and didn't notice that though uh but just fine there's no way to know that yet the murder hasn't been reported they're not looking for a killer of this person at all feels like that kind of crime though should be taken i don't know i think everywhere worldwide we take that a little too uh lightly burglary yeah somebody that will go into somebody's house yeah that's a fucking crazy person well a lot of times a burglary if someone is there will turn into a violent crime that's the thing invasion somebody gets tied up that's what i'm saying yeah somebody that will go in somebody's house bust the door and smash a window fuck that person yeah that's what i'm saying we should be able to rock them up a lot longer than we do and that's what he did too he smashed this guy's window really with a

garbage can oh you fucking asshole threw a garbage he just i mean he wasn't even trying to hide it no that's what i mean he was literally took a garbage can in the middle of neighborhood threw it through the guy's window climbed in and stole shit we don't take that near serious enough no for him it was more of a bullying tactic like this guy won't do shit to me i can i can fucking punk this guy that's what he was doing but no we should because that's an easy way where people can be murdered that's almost like drunk driving yeah it's like here's the the crime but the possibility goes way further so you're kind of you know we we kind of punish drunk driving on that possibility because otherwise it would be to do worse is so fucking exponential what we punish where's burglary we don't punish that at all we just punish the you stole a thing right there's no like meanwhile there's what would

have happened if and you've got a fucking weapon if you're breaking a door down you've got something a lot of times you have a weapon right absolutely yeah and fuck you if you do that yeah yeah don't be a dick stop doing that horrible don't listen to our show no it's not small-time murder or pure behavior i want any part of you yeah i don't want you in with us in your headphones while you're doing this because that's what it would be too i don't want you to have fun i don't want you to pocket robin oh shit oh is someone home get your knife out i can't have that no did jimmy just throw up or was that somebody opened the door oh god which one one headphone out shit that's what this was going on out here in the world so yeah this was all he was only detained for a few hours here so he gets released and spends the rest of the night drinking again going around to every pub he can get into and drink and get

shit-faced and just doing his whole night over again having some fun uh the next day though uh the next day comes around and he is out and about in in the town and he runs into a woman he runs into uh remember that marcus law he said i'm gonna kill that bastard he runs into marcus law's mother just as a random bumped into her in a small town things happen here and she said hello to him because everybody knows each other here she said hello to him and he said quote sorry about poor old marcus he killed him he's killed himself that's what he told her with like a smile on his face and she was like what are you talking about that's his mother she would probably know if he killed himself yeah so she's before you do i would

imagine so so he goes yeah sorry about poor old marcus he's killed himself and that was that and smiles like oh that's that so she uh drops what she's doing and goes and runs over to her son's, because the whole thing just sounded weird. So she drops everything and goes over to her son's home to find him. Now, Marcus is in a wheelchair, first of all. Oh, my God. He's bound to a wheelchair after a motorcycle accident. That's the guy you pick on? Okay, this is the guy that said, that bastard's going to die.

He's had enough, I think think he's in a fucking wheelchair that's that's really hard to just in life that's a hard thing if that you're if you're struck with that like what you've had enough no one needs to fuck with you anymore even if it was his fault you know what i mean i don't care he still can't walk right it life is life is not good for him for the rest of it. No, it's at least not as good or it's at least different anyway. So I'm not saying that your life has no value if you're in a wheelchair out there. I'm sure you're but you would rather be running around. I'm sure is the point I'm getting at. So I don't think that's outside of the bounds of fucking reality here.

You have obvious difficulties in everything that you want to do that's yeah everything unless it's sitting and wheeling right unless it's rolling unless it's sitting in a movie theater unless you know the teacups are your favorite thing in the world that doesn't that's basically living life in a teacup from now on so uh now he's in a wheelchair the reason why he said he was going to kill that bastard by the way way, is I could see this, actually. I could see this. Sometimes we're like, all right, there's no excuse for going overboard and being mad at somebody. But this is one of those things where you're like, you know what?

I could kind of see it. Apparently, Marcus had smoked too many of his cigarettes at the bar one time. The guy in the wheelchair. The guy in the wheelchair. Smoked too much. He smoked a many of his cigarettes at the bar one time the guy in the wheelchair guy in the wheelchair smoked too much smoked a few of his cigarettes without asking him so he took he took one and then he took more and it wasn't supposed to so i mean you could see where he's coming from obviously you know apparently i get to kill short bus that's what i mean yeah oh i could fucking you have no idea name him i've had to yeah you have no idea what i've done with him i could have i've jesus christ crush him every day every day for a month kick him down the road and he'd deserve it and he'd deserve it based on this logic now uh what she finds marcus law's mother is she finds uh marcus in a in a boy this

is a rough state let's talk about this um first of all he's stabbed more than 70 times yeah he is not alive uh stabbed more than 70 times in his um okay his stomach is sliced open and stuck into his stomach is one of his crutches oh my god that he has because he has a crutch that he can like prop himself up not in the chair right now i know he's on the ground for this uh yeah the crutch stuck into him wow stab more than 70 times and he has the oddest thing of all he has cigarettes stuffed into his mouth nose ears and eye sockets because he has popped the eyeballs out in order to play cigarettes in them unreal um yes uh also in his ears uh so later on he will uh say so he would quote, look like a birthday cake. What the shit?

Festive. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what to make of that. I'll take a lot of cigarettes. You want some cigarettes? Yeah. Like, I don't know if he just bought a carton or what, but he's like, I'll give you a cigarette.

Here you go. Like, he's dead, dude. What are you doing? You want more? I can fit more. Think about how angry that is to where after someone's dead, to stab someone 70 times, we've done the 100 times we're dead. To stab someone 70 times, your aggression is, dude, I don't know.

You should be exhausted and done. You should be like, whew, okay. You should be reflective by the time you're 55. You should be like, am I doing the right thing? At 70, you should be like, oh boy, I regret about 39 of those. Yeah, that's way too many. I think I stabbed him a few dozen too many times. My shoulder's going to hurt tomorrow.

That's what I mean. I pitched nine innings today. That's what it looks like here. So to still have the anger to then cut him open, stuff a spear in him or a crutch in him, and then say, I'm going to fill every orifice he has with cigarettes. It's not enough. it's not enough it's not enough like you really have to have some fucking rage to you for something over nothing nothing this is crazy uh now he is arrested actually for this a few hours later that day because the mother

finds the body calls police and says hey this crazy fuck told me this and this told me that he killed himself this seems like he didn't. Might want to go talk to that guy possibly here. So they go pick him up as a, you know, just as under suspicion of a possible murder here. That is a hard suicide. Oh, man, he really worked it. He really doesn't like himself.

That last eyeball was probably real hard to pry out of his head. You know what I mean? And then he would have had a hard time finding the cigarettes to put in there. It's difficult. With all the cigarettes in his head. You know what I mean? And then he would have had a hard time finding the cigarettes to put in there. It was difficult. With all the cigarettes in his ears. You do that last, right? I feel like you'd have to do that last. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to find your crutch.

Right. So he was really upset. And, oh, boy. So he's taken in. And they interview him. And this is where it gets bizarre. Oh, boy. Marcus.

Or Marcus. That's Marcus Law. I died. Anthony here. During the police interview, he has a pack of playing cards with him. Now, why he's allowed to have a pack of playing cards in an interrogation room, I have no fucking idea. Because here, if they arrest you and you're taken in an interrogation room, you don't have anything. You don't have shit. Really? If you're under arrest. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. you and you're taken in an interrogation room you don't have anything you don't have shit really if you're under arrest oh yeah i guess you're searched yeah if you come in just for questioning which i'm sure they took him in they were going to arrest

him but he's there for questioning maybe they'd at least search him uh for weapons and i guess playing cards aren't weapons so he's got these playing cards with him uh now apparently he's just shuffling through the deck kind of in like a nervous like like this is how he kind of flips a nickel or picks at his fingernails or instead of that he's shuffling cards while the cops are talking to him right so they let him do it because they think okay maybe this makes him more comfortable maybe he'll tell us something a lot of times you know you let somebody do that until it becomes obvious that they're doing that so they don't have to tell you things to make them more comfortable it's one of those things sometimes they need to do shit like that so they can talk and sometimes sometimes they're doing that so they won't talk so sometimes you have to take away

their shit and interrogation it's weird stuff when the burger king makes them talk more you keep ordering burger king that's it yeah exactly that's exactly the fucking right thing well they do that with uh in the why in the homicide book they talk about that they couldn't get this guy to crack and he was smoking a pipe. So they eventually took his pipe away from him and see if maybe that would get him to fucking stop. Maybe that would get him to crack. He didn't, but it was a good idea.

It's a good try. It's a good try. Nice try guys. So, uh, so an 11 year old girl's murder walks free still because of that shit. So, uh,

he has this plaque, a pack of playing cards. He's shuffling through them and they're trying to talk to him about Marcus. They're trying to ask him questions. They're trying to ask him all this shit, and he's just looking through the cards. He's, like, picking one card. He stops. He's ignoring the detectives.

He stops when he gets to the Four of Hearts. Ark Wright does. Okay? He stops, and then he has a statement to make to the cops. Tells them, shut the fuck up. I got to tell you something. stops and he then he has a statement to make to the cops tells them you shut the fuck up i gotta tell you something holds up the four of hearts and says quote i can read the future from these cards okay that's that's number one this is gonna be good oh yeah i can read the future from these

cards hey you gotta go all right you pull up you pull your chair a little closer i'm interested yeah shoot let's go uh then he says quote this, this is the master card, the four of hearts. Is it? Okay. Well, in his world, this is the master card. It means you have four bodies and a madman on the loose. I can see Marcus Law, but the others are indescribable. They're just too horrible to describe.

And then he stops talking and he won't say anything anymore. So he just essentially told the cards told the cops this card here represents the four people i've killed out there that are way more horribly done than marcus and you don't know you haven't even found him yet and marcus is one of the four marcus is one of the four that's why he says i can see marcus but the others are indescribable they're just too horrible to describe so he's telling them you got some more work to do and he's telling you got four dead bodies, not one, by the way.

And you got to count them. One, two, three. Get out there. Yeah. So, so far, we've counted Marcus Law, Grandpa, and Housekeeper Elsa. That's three. That leaves one more.

That leaves one more. Well, let's find out here. So the police were like, there's four, because they didn't know about the grandfather or the maid yet either. They just knew he killed his friend, Marcus Law. So they're like, okay, is he full of shit?

Because they notice right away that's his personality. He's a, if you're a detective, you can tell right away what the hell kind of people they are. If he likes to sit back and like, you know, play with the cards and do all of that, he's enjoying this whole thing. So they don't know if he's just playing with them, trying to get them to go out on a wild goose hunt while he sits back and shows that he has control. Exactly. Like if it's like a uh seven type situation you know so i feel like they think it's like that um but he wouldn't say anymore they kept asking him what does that mean what does this mean he just would shrug and be like i don't know you guys should go find out right i don't know you're the cops i've given you all the information given you everything so he uh he just loved being the center center of attention and he said also that by the way i didn't kill marcus i'm just telling

you that this is the master card and he's dead and i see him but the others are too horrible so you guys might want to get on that what the fuck does that even mean that's what they're thinking what does this mean what is this is this are the cards important right the fuck is going on here is there a that's the other thing too what does this mean is there a cult do this is this are the cards important right the fuck is going on here is there a that's the other thing too what does this mean is there a cult do we is there are there other people right are there four people killing four people oh like what what does this mean he won't say shit he'll just smirk and be like it's just a four and it's red and there's parts everywhere well boy so they didn't have a lot of evidence against him really for for four crimes all they really have even with the marcus law crime they have

the mother thought it was weird that's it he doesn't admit it to it there's no evidence of it you know this is 88 dna is still not a thing really that's you know regularly done it takes a long time to test it's like the last thing they think of dna at this point so in america you can hang on to that guy indefinitely yes for a suspicion of murder you have time to set up you have to charge him at some point you can't just keep somebody without charges that's that's like the whole point of the constitution is to not i'm not sure but i'm not sure you can hold him for questioning i think and that's what they're doing here like hey you stay here while we go over to that guy's house and see if he's dead and you murdered him. And then keep telling every day, we've got to go look at another house.

We've got to go look at another house. And every day just tell them it's something else? I think you can be held as, you can be, there's different ways they can hold you, but it's always like, it can't just be like we threw him in there and forgot about it. Like, there has to be like, he's a, be like, we're holding him under suspicion of this. He's a material witness of that. There's always something here. So, wow. Jesus Christ.

They look into this guy a little more, Anthony. They're looking into him and they're like, all right, well, let's figure out who this asshole is and what's been going on. They know he's like a petty thief and all that sort of shit. So they look in his record and they find out that he was just arrested two days ago for burgling so they're like okay uh who did he burgle let's go talk to that guy maybe he knows some information makes sense right so they want to go speak to raymond ford to say what the fuck happened here so uh pc who's their police officer here, PC David Winter, he goes to Raymond Ford's house and sees knocks on the door. Nobody answers.

There's a big broken window that someone had thrown a fucking garbage can through, which was our guy Anthony here that earlier that week. So the officer decides to climb into the broken window and see if the guy's inside. It's like it's fucking broken and open anyway. I might as well climb in. So he goes, and this is a follow-up on a burglary, just to try to get some more information. But what he comes across when he gets in here, into the place, is first of all,

what he describes is just an ocean of cider, empty cider bottles. The guy's a real alcoholic, Raymond. He's a real drinker, yeah. Just leaves bottles? Yeah, he just leaves bottles everywhere. Just drops them on the ground? Drops them on the ground.

That's how drunk he is here. And it was very, very hot in there as well. Really hot. Booze everywhere. And, you know, the floor was just littered in shit, basically. They just saw stuff all over the floor and bottles and everything like that. Cops were, like uh you know the floor was just littered in shit basically they just saw stuff all over the floor and bottles and everything like that cops were like you know tiptoeing around

shit on the floor they didn't even know what it was um so several items here one thing they find in addition to all these these uh these bottles and things are is a a devil mask yeah uh they find a like a mask that's a devil mask just sitting on the ground too which are like okay maybe this guy had a devil mask whatever fuck fest and he's okay this looks like a fuck fest happened this is like pat and oswald's fucking fuck squash joke with the that's what this you don't know that joke fuck squash it's a great joke about going to see a going to look at a house that he was going to buy and they apparently the people who live there didn't know that the real estate agent was coming over Fuck Squatch. It's a great joke about going to look at a house that he was going to buy, and apparently

the people who live there didn't know that the real estate agent was coming over. Oh, no. And it was like the morning after an orgy. So he's like, it smelled like sex, and there's this kid who threw on girls' clothes by accident. He's trying to walk out into the woods, and he's like, look, everyone, it's Fuck Squatch. It's a great joke. One of the good ones there. It's a fucking great joke.

It's an oldie but goodie. watch it's a great joke one of the good ones there it's a fucking great joke it's an oldie but goodie so anyway he's uh they find the devil mess the tv is on and blaring that's why the guy went in the window he's like well maybe somebody's here someone's here the tv's on the central heating is pumping as well the heat is on pumping yeah and this is august yeah so shouldn't have it strange yeah see heat's pumping um uh it was just eventually here when he's walking around he starts to notice some blood on the floor starts to notice noticing some blood stains here and there around the place then he starts to get a smell starts to get a whiff of which smells like uh not sex human demise yeah this is definitely not a fog bank of twat mist as

patton oswalt described the smell coming from this place disgusting yeah a very very descriptive line though very funny you get the idea you get what he's talking about this is the end of someone's life not the beginning of someone else's life clearly right so uh this makes them uh the police uh winter here he goes down into the bedroom follows this kind of trail and that is where he discovers an absolute fucking shit show whoa buckle up guys this is a this is a rough one i'll try to make it as least graphic as possible and the most like decorating for halloween i. I don't know how else to describe it. Okay. First of all, put it this way.

The cop realized the things he was trying not to step on through the hallway and living room were organs. Oh, no way. This dude is scattered. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'll let the cop describe it for a moment. He says, quote, there was blood on the walls. I opened the bedroom door and I thought there was a pile of clothes in the corner but there was this body underneath the underneath this and all the bits and pieces i'd seen in the hallway that was all his organs all the bits and

pieces in the hallway that was his internal organs he'd removed practically every internal organ from his body. Unbelievable. Okay. Let's find out what he did here. Wow. First of all, this is obviously in retaliation for calling the cops for breaking into his goddamn house, which is silly. Ford. Otherwise,

he has no real enemies. He's a heavy drinker and an unemployed former teacher. That's who he is. This guy had been being harassed by anthony for weeks weeks he's been being harassed by him anthony had stolen items from his home so he reported him to the police he would do he just fucking tormented him basically he would go and uh he would put shit dog shit through his mail slot. Things like that. Like, just to fuck with the guy. For no reason.

The guy had no beef. The guy had no reason to pick on this guy. It's like a 13-year-old's prank. That's what I mean. And that's the mentality he has. Which, again, a lot of times you see this. This is the most common thing, and they talk about this psychologically, is when they do profiling they they look at this for serial killers they subtract years where let's say someone uh they think in the profile they're 25 well were they in prison

because if they were in prison for 15 years they might be 40 right because the but that what they're doing is at the level of a 25 year old because that that's time missing So shit like that where I don't know if that's part of it here or what it is. But okay, this is how he did it. We find out later on. He entered the house after this is like I said, bullying him and fucking with this guy and doing all this shit. He entered the house at 3 a.m. Completely naked wearing a devil's mask.

That's how he decided to enter the house oh that's scary he went over there fucking butt naked with a devil's mask on at three in the morning okay um i guess he was passed out raymond ford drinking passed out cold so he just went to town on him and did what he wanted he stabbed raymond ford 500 times that's too five that's 100 times unbelievably too many 500 that's the most i've ever heard of it's insane you would need like a group of people to take turn you need a whole basketball team to do 500 remember when we did 100 yeah holy shit jesus christ i'm still stabbing this is wow think about. Think about it. You'd have to stop more than once and rest. You'd have to come back to it.

You couldn't. Your arm would be jello by the time you got to 200. I can't imagine. Like, you couldn't do it. So he had to stop, sit there for a while. You know what? I'm going to stab him some more and then go stab more. Man, look at the blood flowing back in my arm.

500 times. Some counts it was like 521 and some, you know, you can't tell exactly, but that was one of the- You're switching arms for sure. One of the estimates. You'd have to, man. So much so, one of the knives that he actually, that they found was actually shattered. Yeah.

So he broke one knife stabbing him so many times. I had to go to another one. Stab away here. You'd think that would make it dull, too, after a while. Yeah. Oh, all that 500? Yeah. Yeah.

Cut 500 stakes. Right. And your knife's going to get dull. That's just the way it is. I cut a box with a razor blade. I get maybe six boxes. That's it. You got to flip it.

You got to flip it. That's what I'm saying. This guy, you have to really, he stabbed him so many times, he dulled a blade. Unreal. Think about that. Unreal.

He had to go with the sharpening in between. The whetstone. God damn it, your shitty knives, Raymond, and then go back to him it's it's wild that's not all so 500 stab wounds

and then also he sliced him open yeah like deer basically and took out his intestines yeah and quote draped them around the room like bunting like not just thrown on the floor.

Hung them up. Decorated the fucking room with intestines. Like garland. He said like bunting. Yeah. It was festive to him, he thought. It looked nice. So that's what he did.

Imagine walking into this fucking room if you're the police. Yeah. Oh, what's this on the floor? Gross. Oh, this guy's a drunk and dirty. By then, that shit's all black. Yeah. It's a couple days. And it's the heat's on so there's decom that's why they smell them because the heat was on otherwise it was a day and a half he wouldn't have been bad oh the indignity 90 fucking degrees in there this poor fucking guy man he never had a chance he was

passed out dressed out drunk um so draped around the room like bunting yeah now the uh one of the yorkshire police officers who you know is on the job for 20 years seen a lot of shit he said that this was quote the most brutal act of slaughter i have ever seen in all the it's all the more chilling when you realize he must have spent at least a half hour inflicting these terrible wounds i think more than that yeah oh god yeah you'd have to man. Half hour, you couldn't even finish 500 stab wounds. Can't finish 500 stabs, and then also you've got to cut a guy, then take his intestines out, hang him on the wall. Got to get a ladder out.

It takes a while here. Got to find the stud. Right. It's hard. You see him? There it is. There it is. Okay.

Perfect. Less hollow. Jesus Christ. This is. Okay. Perfect. Less hollow. Jesus Christ. This is so much. Yeah. So this police officer is obviously stunned by this, blown away. They locked that crime scene down. And this investigator goes, okay, well, I got to find out more.

Who does this guy associate with? Oh, he's close to his grandfather. I'll go over his grandfather's house and ask him if he knows anything about this officer uh so he lets himself in through an open window because no one knocks here and at this point he's like anything's possible i'm climbing in windows if i see him open the officer here comes in and immediately finds 17 72 year old elsa uh conradate dead on the floor uh hit over the head with an axe and in quite bad shape on the ground here uh he's like holy shit like this cop is like what the fuck have i found i'm not going in any more houses i'm done with houses i'm done so he goes knocks on some neighbors doors to

see if anybody saw anything and uh have they seen the grandfather because they can't find him in the house one of the neighbors goes i haven't seen him, but maybe you should check. He's got an allotment about a half mile away where he goes and gardens all the time. He could be there. You should go talk to him down there. The cop says, okay, doesn't find him there. Sees the shed and he's like, he's got to go. I'm not going to that fucking shed.

I can't be right. Is that blood underneath the door? God, I'm not going to the shed opens the shed and of course finds god for christ's sake fucking body in here fuck me but that is four yep so that's something yeah uh but yeah they find him in there uh obviously he did terrible things to his grandfather as well holy shit put it that way they're just like what the fuck do we have on our hands man this is i mean jack the ripper was one thing he did similar shit you know took people's entrails up he didn't hang them up afterwards also he didn't know the people he wasn't connected

that's the other thing that we know of anyway but yeah who knows it seemed like random crimes with this i mean you get every person you've talked to in the last two hours everyone you've talked to and told other people that you're mad at right i think i'll kill them in a spectacular fashion that's not how it works yeah so they they went around from that point and basically tried to find every friend and acquaintance and relative he has just to make sure they were alive yeah who they had no idea idea. Maybe he killed 10 people. We have no fucking clue. So they literally tracked down everybody he's ever met just to be like, they answer the phone is all right. Yeah.

You live. All right. All right. All right. They hang up and that's it. That's the check. Just checking. This is back to Clouseau.

All right. All right. All right. Next. Next. Cole Nigel next. Right. He's on the list. There's always. All right. Next. Next. Cole Nigel next. Right. He's on the list.

There's always a Nigel. Jesus Christ. They all know Nigel. They all know Nigel. By the way, this was six days after they were murdered. They found the grandfather. Oh, gross. And the grandmother.

So he was trapped in a shed in the summer. The housekeeper. Yeah. He was trapped in a shed in the summer. Disgusting. For a week. So you can imagine what that is. Again imagine again indignity indignity and finding that yeah oh boy open that shed door that'll talk about a fog bank of twat mist that'll knock you over so um so they want to chat with him obviously they're like well what's the deal here he eventually confesses

to he's like yes i killed my grandfather yes i killed raymond ford too that motherfucker had it coming sure did uh marcus law you bet your ass i'd kill him again if he was in the room he's the worst you'd have killed him if you knew him we'll put it that way he's a total asshole you like to smoke you look at that wheelchair and you think oh what a sweet guy no he'll steal your cigarettes in a heartbeat and then you got to make a birthday cake out of him that's how it works he's like a mormon on his own absolutely all by himself and then he said that he uh but he said i did not kill elsa didn't kill her i don't know what you're talking about he said that he said uh i did see her i went over there took my grandfather's money i stood over her over her dead body with an axe in

my hand but i wasn't the one who killed her it was another axe separate axe yeah totally separate axe I had um but check on her sister he'll never admit to this not really he will not admit to killing her for some I don't know what it is I don't know if it's a 72 year old lady I think it's the lady it's the lady I don't know if he has a weird thing but he will not admit to that like hey I might be a sick fuck that'll drape someone's goddamn intestines on the wall but i'm no woman killer like okay i stumbled upon somebody else's handiwork weird he's a real asshole if you ask me i mean it was pretty good it was impressive i gotta be honest with you but it's wrong person wrong person right church wrong pew you know

what i mean all right sorry mama okay so um yeah uh he's charged obviously with murder and they put him they put him in jail awaiting trial why don't you sit there for a minute yeah he's got some interesting things from jail as well that he does that are a little out there as you might imagine oh yeah we think this guy's gonna just be like caught me now staple his shit to the wall let's talk about it okay uh first of all he talks to some psychiatrists for a minute here. They say that, you know, basically that he wanted notoriety, and he decided to try to get it this way. And this is a time where he's trying to convince prison doctors that he's insane. That's the route he's taking here.

He's transferred to Rampton Secure Hospital, and they have detailed examinations. And in the reports, the psychiatrist said that they find it to be a ruse and that he is fit to plead. They put it the forensic psychologist, Kerry Danes. He says he said, quote, There's a lot of activity when the body when the body after death. We call this kind of ritualistic behavior a signature because it goes above and beyond what's necessary for the commission of the crime. That's what they talk about in serial killer profiling. M.O. and signature are different, and it's complicated psychological shit, but that's what it is, basically. He says, quote, it tells us a lot about what's going on in the offender's head.

He clearly wanted to send a message. I am all powerful. I can do whatever I want. That's what it is. That's what a lot of these guys do when they pose people in certain ways and they set them up. It's a power thing. It's a fucking control thing. And also it's in your place.

This is where you feel safe. Not me. And look what I did here. Exactly. I'll go in anywhere. That's honestly a really good point here. They also this same psychologist also said, quote, this was a grotesque and macabre spree, one of the most gruesome cases ever. But it wasn't well known, which was a good which was a good thing as Arkwright wanted notoriety, which he never got.

He idolized Jack the Ripper and spent time in the library pouring over books about him because he was a figure of power and horror. time in the library pouring over books about him because he was a figure of power and horror it's clear he enjoyed the theater of his killings and wanted to be this figure of mystery and power like jack yeah don't kill your grandfather then dummy or or the guy across the street that you have beef with also jack the ripper probably never told any of those other girls mothers that they accidentally eviscerated themselves the night before that's probably never happened yeah your daughter vivisected herself out on the corner the other night. She just. I saw her on the bridge.

Yeah. She did it to herself. It was wild. It was wild. It's hard. You want to see someone struggle. Watch someone try to rip their own intestines out. Really hard.

It's really impressive. Difficult. So while in jail, you know, he's not being thought of as crazy now. So what he does is he says, tells the cops that he you know he wants he needs more attention he tells the cops there's a fifth victim you know by the way all right i got one more when you like to find them okay so they're like oh yeah we'd love to and at this point anything's possible this guy told you anything you'd believe it because if he said this is what i did and he told you all four of those murders you'd be like the fuck out of here nobody would have believed him they'd have been like he's making it

up those were until you find them yeah and then whatever comes out of his mouth after that fucking law as far as i'm concerned that's the thing after the four of hearts thing where he said four bodies and you're gonna find them and they were like yeah right and then they actually found four now they'll they'll take him at face value for just about anything he says at this point here so at this point he says that uh yeah there's a fifth one this sends police looking for him he says that it's a nearby lake uh near a lake and in a drainage ditch is where this body is that he's murdered apparently uh police days, they comb the earth. England's got a shitload of lakes, don't they? Yeah, it's a particular.

He tells them where it is. He gives them a pretty specific location. So they go out there for days. They have dogs, and they never find a fucking thing. Never find anything. They, in the end, figure that it was probably just to gain attention. And, you know, he continued to do that throughout his jail stint. He was mad at what he called a lack of respect.

He didn't feel like the world. He didn't feel like the world respect. Because for him, like Jack the Ripper, people are afraid of Jack the Ripper. Zodiac killer. People are in fear of the Zodiac killer. They're treating him like he's some kind of regular run-of-the-mill asshole. It's because we don't know that those guys are not run-of-the-mill assholes i hung intestines on the fucking wall don't i get some sort of recognition for that like that's what he's thinking like who's fucking crazier than me i don't know it

took him six days to go from your beginning of your spree till you in jail how do you fucking but he's like how crazy do you have to kill someone before it's known before everyone pays the fuck attention jesus christ i mean honestly the birthday cake the bunting i tried right tried my best to get some goddamn attention here just like as a child he can't get the attention he deserves or he deems that he deserves so what he does is he makes his own attention by smearing shit all over his walls yeah just he calls he calls them dirty protests okay and he just smears shit everywhere makes himself a just a little shit cocoon and uh yeah they have to come in and clean it out it's disgusting it's goddamn disgusting um

yeah dirty what a dirty protest okay it's a No, that's a filth painting. That's just madness. Yuck. I don't know if he drew anything or wrote anything or like, you know, I don't know if he's an artist. Yeah. I'm not going to, you know, who knows? Just one hand smears it. The man could be an artist and that's just his medium. Yeah.

I'm an artist. My medium is shit. I've heard weirder shit, honestly, if I'm being honest. I've heard people making, you know, paintings out of, like, animal guts and blood and shit like that. There's a lady that makes earrings out of animal droppings, James. That's what I mean. What the fuck?

If someone was an artist and that happened to be their medium, fine. Drew Banksy's with shit? I think so. Like a panda with a grenade, but it's in his own shit? I think so. Like a panda with a grenade, but it's in his own shit. I feel like it's that or just like one Chinese character for some reason that isn't a real one. But that is really wild how he got that little baby to have that gas mask and the balloon is red. How did he get red?

That's amazing. Oh, no. Well, he's got obviously problems in his stool. Get him to the doctor. Oh, man. What is that? That is pretty. Look at that.

It's yellow. The texture. I like how he did the shading on the left side of it. The shading is very impressive, I got to say. Shit shading is not easy. It looks like a number two pencil, but it's not. It's just number two. It's Anthony Arkwright in excrement.

It's a self-portrait. Not in charcoal or in watercolors. Yeah. In excrement.'s a self-portrait not in charcoal or in watercolors yeah that's all he was gonna be valuable he said if i'm not gonna be known as a murderer i'll be known as an artist yeah damn it one doctor commented uh when he was trying to say he was insane one doctor called him and said this in court that he was quote the sanest person in the building. Motherfucker knows exactly what he did. This is after he described stabbing someone 500 times and hanging his entrails around like bunting. And then he said, sanest guy here.

Who's the fucking insanest then? Let's avoid that guy. Point me the way to the fun one. Who's the craziest then? Because what the shit is happening here? This guy is dirty protesting. Does everybody do that? Apparently so. And there's one that does it worse?

He does it no better, I think. I think you mean better, Jimmy. Internationally renowned artist. There's an impressive one? It's very impressive. He's a shit artist is what it's known as. Nice poop artist. ross he's a real bob ross in the in the poop elements it's it's amazing see that's the thing bob ross i like what he does but he never really explored poop as a as a a way to express himself and i feel like this this guy has. That's what's important. Here's a happy tree from Bob Ross.

See, here's what a prisoners make. Angry, angry trees. I made a tree with shit on it. That's my tree. Bob Ross got happy little leaves. Mine's just shit. Mine are furious leaves. Nothing but shit.

Furious, angry leaves. So the prosecutor, once court comes around, he says to everybody assembled, quote, the mother of Marcus Law was to find her own son dead. Even before the discovery, Arkwright spoke to her about the death of Marcus, thus betraying his knowledge. So that's how they set the whole thing up. They charge him with the three. They let the fourth one sit, Elsa, because he hasn't admitted to it. And they're like, three should be enough.

And the judge says that will be held, quote, on his file. So they can charge him with it. It's murder. So they can charge him with it anytime they feel like it. So I feel like that's just because at the time, there was no life in prison forever. So I think that's just in case he gets out someday we could always charge him with this one too it's one of those just have a statue just an extra yeah yeah there's no it's murder so murder as they say on the wire murder stays murder it does it certainly does funk told omar that oh murder stay murder because omar's like i give you some old cases they're old though and he goes oh

murder stay murder let me get a pad and pen shit i don't give a fuck if they're from 10 years ago it's still murder so um yeah he oh wow he uh this this starts to go on the trial begins and there's an adjournment requested by his legal representation and at the end of this adjournment he's decided that he'd like to change his not guilty plea to a guilty plea just for the murders of his grandfather, Raymond Ford Marcus Law. So the prosecutor decides that they're OK with that. They're going to take that and they'll drop the fourth one and put it on his file. That's the agreement in the plea in the plea deal. Now, before sentencing his.

Imagine you're his attorney. You're trying to get a light sentence this young he's clearly he has so much problem he people love no they don't have you seen his thomas kincaid it's just gonna say have you have you seen his jackson pollock his jackson pollock prison wall have you seen that that was my was my... Comes in threes, Jimmy. That was the third one. It goes by Jackson Pollock. It's pretty good. That's where the red comes from.

See how that works? That's why there's red. Jackson Pollock. That's the guy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's a nice one. Once you see the shit Pollock up there, it's pretty good. It's not too shabby you have to try to defend this yeah and make this sympathetic nothing like thanks i got nope yeah i

got nothing i got i got shit i just picture him at home i picture him at home like when you're like a little kid you draw on the maps on the on the placemats at a restaurant, and you're just like, oh, shit, dead end. Oh, nope, there. That's right in the hippo's mouth. Oh, fuck. Oh, no, that's down the waterfall. Shit. And then eventually, it's just like-

This goes right in the tiger. His heart, I guess. I don't know what else to say about it because it's just shit. Much like his prison self, all I've got is shit. I got a lot of shit here. So now, his lawyer, this james chadwin this poor bastard he said quote yeah arkwright is a young man true so far true so far i just leave it at that and then he said thank you very much he went sat down started making notes on his thing like, okay, do that.

People are like, is that it? He's a young man who suffers from severe personality damage and disorder. He's clearly fucked up, obviously. He has shown signs of disturbance since the time his mother left him when he was four years old. That's what he's saying. the time his mother left him when he was four years old that's what he's saying uh he says that uh uh you know you should take mercy on him here uh the judge on the other hand has something else to say the judge uh justice bore boreham oh boy boram boram borham probably boram it's boram yeah

probably he said quote that the murders quote can only be described as horrible offenses of sadistic cruelty. Cruelty for its own sake. I accept you have had a deprived and disturbed childhood, but that cannot be an excuse for the appalling cruelty and apparent sadistic pleasure with which you carried out these offenses. There is nothing in the medical evidence to suggest anything to mitigate what you have done. I have no doubt, having read the reports of three imminent psychiatrists and others,

that you constitute a serious danger to the public and will remain so for a very long time to come. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison with a recommendation that he serve at least 25 years. I want him in. Is that the stiffest? That's what they got. That's all they've got? Yeah, I want him way longer than that.

That is not enough. With the minimum of... He could be out in his 40s. We hang you from the rafters. Yeah, that With the minimum of... He could be out in his 40s. We hang you from the rafters. Yeah, that's the minimum of... If you are to get out, you'll have to leave your entrails hung around your cell, like bunting with your shit. Sir Anthony Hopkins will open you. Yeah. Now, after this, his own mother, Arkwright's mother, Zoe Wood, she gave an interview in the newspaper, actually, you know, because everybody's blaming her for it.

She said that they said, you know, do you think there's an appropriate prison sentence? And she said, quote, he should never come out. Oh, God, no. Or at least not until he is a very, very old man. I dread to think what will happen if he does. My family and the community will be in grave danger. That's his mom. Yeah.

Okay. His mom said, oh, that's bad. You can't let him out then holy shit oh you yeah oh no no he's yours now oh no please we're all he's gonna kill us all we said bad things about him i said i didn't like his artwork he tried this he told me put it up on the fridge i said no you know how this goes that's a word the british utilize that we uh undervalue dread that's a great fucking word i dread is good i dread him leaving any anything. That's a great fucking word. Dread is good. I dread him leaving anything ever. There's a lot.

They use appalling a lot, too, which I enjoy. I like appalling. They use a lot of them. They use a lot. I like a lot of their... Plunge and minge. I mean, there's so many good ones. I like a lot of their vernacular they toss around here.

Nice ones and references to genitalia. Maybe that's why Madonna and Gwyneth paltrow are both drawn to it it's just a fun maybe i like q yeah that's good yeah i have a gash form an orderly q that's what the in-betweener said i know you hate that word but that's not me it's jay right from the in-betweeners and the form an orderly q is the point it's just funny great word orderly q a teenager here would never say orderly q no in a million trillion billion years whereas there that sounded so great and they would just say the pussy will form lines yeah hey because americans are dumb line starts here everybody oh that's what they would say.

Pussy single file, boys. Single file. So 1990, the very next year, because this is 89 that he is sentenced, the home secretary who decides... I don't know if that's like... Home secretary? Home secretary. I don't know how to equivocate that to an American office, but he's in charge of a lot of shit.

In the jail? No, no, no. Over the prison system's law stuff oh this person this person is the home secretary jack straw okay uh he declared that he felt this term was too lenient and increased it to a term of entire life no matter what to put him away for life um yeah uh now uh a retired police officer who worked the whole thing uh they asked him does do you do you think he should be in for life and he said quote from the day we brought him in for the marcus law murder to the day he was jailed arkwright seemed genuinely proud of what he had done he expected everyone to revere him to be fascinated by him he was a messed up kid desperate for attention. In his

defected mind, he chose murder to get the attention he craved. He's the most dangerous person I've met in 25 years on the job. He should never get out. That is Detective Inspector Bob Meek. Did that guy see the scenes? Yes. Okay, that is unbelievably

eloquent. Yeah, this is afterwards. I'd just be like like do you know what i've seen no i feel i can't believe he could get all those words out in description that's afterwards the guy who originally found and came out of the house just went oh for christ bloody hell oh puking on his own legs it's all he said just every puking on his knees. Oh, I give a million quid to not do this anymore. Just in any British statement you can make. I should have gone to bloody uni. I should have gone to bloody uni.

I went to a public and then just dropped out. Should have went to uni. Should have listened to me, folks. Oh, man. So they think he should never get out. Oh, man. So they think he should never get out. Yeah.

He is also the youngest offender to have been issued a whole life tariff by any appropriate authorities, is what they say here, which is weird. He was only 21 when the crime occurred, and he's the youngest person that they gave that to in England. Now, I looked up some shit for life sentences in the sentencing guidelines in England because here and there are way different. sentences and the sentencing guidelines in england because here and there are way different right uh here i found life sentence the act of murder in england and wales carries a mandatory life sentence to anyone age 21 plus with those those age 18 to 20 years sentenced to life in custody and those under 18 presented a sentence to be detained at her majesty's pleasure which sounds terrible sounds like they're gonna go yeah they're're going to go down on the queen when she's fucking bored at the end of the night while she drinks her tea. Your punishment is to get to the queen's wish list on Amazon.

Bring in the murderers. The queen's feeling froggy. Bring her a new wand. The last one you brought in destroyed destroyed it the queen likes a wand but you've never seen her use no never never so life sentences are automatically applied for the following set offenses murder attempted murder conspiracy to murder or indictment to murder or incitement to murder sorry uh manslaughter uh rape and attempt rape and intercourse with a girl under 13 doesn't say anything about a boy just a girl hold on under

13 these are automatic life sentences just any intercourse with her at all i would hope so yeah i think that's i think that's great i think any sexual contact with a girl under 13 that's wonderful we don't need you at all um yeah and this this is life, not life without parole, but life. And then they recommend how that's as long as they could keep you. But they recommend how many years it should be until you get a parole. That's how they work. That's a great way to do it. Possession of a firearm with intent to injure, which is I think you get the key to the city for that here.

Don't you? I mean, down south, at least you get the key to the city. At least lifetime hunting privileges. Probably, yeah, for free. Use of a firearm to resist arrest or carrying a firearm with criminal intent, which, like I said here, that's considered being a proud American. Robbery whilst in possession of a firearm. That's a man that knows his rights.

Yeah, he knows his rights. This man has read the Constitution right there. That's all I hear out of it. That's a man that won't be told to stay inside. That's a man that will not be denied. He will not be denied. Robbery whilst in possession of a firearm or imitation firearm. And with the following terms applied to each sentence dependent on the severity of the crimes.

30 years before parole is considered for murder involved. It's very specific. Murder involving a firearm or explosive, which is the highest one. So shooting someone's the worst thing you could do there. Or exploding them. Or exploding them, which are pretty similar, honestly. Kind of the same thing. Smaller scale is just all it is.

Murder done for personal gain. You know, contract killing. Murder to obstruct the course of justice. Witnesses. Murder involving sexual or sadistic conduct. So you want to do some weird Ted Bundy shit. You get that. Multiple murder.

Racially, sexually, or religiously aggravated murder. I hate crimes. Murder committed by those aged 21 who should, under 21, who should deserve a whole life order. And then 25 years before parole that's murdering with a knife uh 12 to 15 years is murder committed by a minor ages 11 to 17 and then 15 years is any other murder i don't know what the fuck that would be because you went over just about you went over explosion right i mean and this is all of humans, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Now, in 2003, the home secretary, that's when they changed the law completely so that his home secretary, David Blunkett, changed the law so that certain people sentenced to life

in prison would actually serve the rest of their lives with no chance of parole. So they cemented it. This was challenged in 2013 in the EU. So they cemented it. This was challenged in 2013 in the EU. It was challenged when the European Court of Human Rights decreed that whole life terms without the option for review or parole amounted to inhuman and degradating. Degradating. Degradating. Yep.

Degradating. Degradating. Degradating. Degradating. I forget it. I give up. It's degrading. It's shitty treatment.

Yep. Yeah. Degradating. Degradating. Forget it. I give up. It's degrading. It's shitty treatment. Yep. Yeah. Degradating treatment. Now, he said that, this is David Blunkett, he said in 2003 we changed the law so life really meant life when sentencing those who had committed the most heinous crimes. Another politician here said, quote, I pushed this through parliament in response to the overwhelming demand of the british people for clear transparent sentencing and for the certainty uh that what starts out as clear and unambiguous punishment will end uh end up being carried out

there they have a list of where it's really set out we have none of that shit here it's state to state it's judges discretion we have all our shit i wish it was laid out like that it's way more organized yeah uh this person also said whatever the technical justification in the strasbourg court may have for striking that down uh it is the right of the british parliament to determine the sentence of those who have committed such crimes and for democracy uh for which those uh for which for which choose a sentence may many years ago as an alternative to capital punish punishment to have the will of the people implemented to do otherwise can only lead to disillusionment mistrust of and a dangerous

alienation from our democracy itself jesus not bad uh however the court of appeal ruled that whole life sentences were entirely compatible with European Convention of Human Rights. So they struck down the strike down. So it's okay to have those. 2014 in February, Arkwright, along with killer Arthur Hutchinson, pleaded or appealed against the whole life tariff imposed on them. Three high court judges rejected the appeal, saying that the whole life tariff imposed imposed on them three high court judges rejected the appeal saying that the whole life tariff was completely lawful you sir can continue to fuck off and keep fucking off because they're never letting him out they're never letting him

out and i don't think they should now recently this was in 2019 it's still going on it's just going to be later now they were casting for a a World's Most Evil Serial Killer show, and I found the casting call for it. Woodcut Media are the producers of the long-running true crime series World's Most Evil Serial Killers, which features reconstruction scenes of various cases. For our latest episode, we're looking for two people to play police officers who worked on the case of Anthony Arkwright. Can we raise our hands? Can we and you do it? Calm down. Caucasian, short brown hair, slender face, no beard.

Okay. Caucasian. Only tall. Short brown hair, short brown light hair, rounded face, rounded face, no beard. It's me. I'll shave. I'll shave your beard. And yeah, we let your hair grow.

It's us. It's important that the people have not already played a part where their face is shown in another series uh there who knows when it's going on payment 25 pounds for the first three hours hey goodbye 10 pounds an hour thereafter listen and they pay quote reasonable travel expenses hey come on now i'm gonna come from all the way over here if you come from like the next town you know i'll give you gas money or something you stop at del taco maybe i'll hit you back with they're gonna have to pay a little better and you know what we'll get we'll get eyes on your bullshit i'm saying god damn it i'll do it i'll be here for a lot

more than that yeah it's gonna cost you i'm gonna bring it to you for free god damn it uh some good facts came out of a book i found some good shit that was nowhere else so that's why i want to give them credit in a book called life means life jailed forever the true stories of britain's most evil killers by nick appleyard uh that had uh just a few things that were nowhere else so it was some good finds there and that my friends is me Mexborough, Doncaster, South Yorkshire, England. And I did that without looking. Yeah? Wow.

I want to see you running out of a shed screaming, bollocks, bollocks, while I puke on my shoes. I know. Bollocks, bollocks, bollocks. Oh, jeez. Ow. And I'm puking going, that's not clunge. Oh, for fuck's sake.

That's not. Ow. Oh, it smells like bad smells like somebody fucked a fanny oh man well one more time we ask that you find our ignorance charming just charming thank you thank you for doing that if you like that show you can tell us about it very easily go over get on Thank you very much. Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for everything new. All sorts of new stuff up there. There's merch.

There's masks that we have a charity thing going on for. So get on that. They're awesome. They're really cool masks, too. They're awesome. If you're going to wear a mask, which you should probably, you should check these masks out. We think you'll like them. You can do that.

Also, get your tickets to live shows. Also, get all your crime and sports stuff there, as a matter of fact, as well. Listen to crime and sports. Get tickets to live shows that look like they're going to, for now, look like they're going on from July on. A few tickets left in New York and Brooklyn at the Murmur for August 22nd. Not a lot there. They went pretty quick. Boston sold out.

Where are we? Detroit, Cincinnati. There's a few tickets left for each of those. And then we're in Atlanta, New Orleans, Northern California, up in San Jose and Sacramento. Tampa, we're down in Tampa and Orlando. So, yeah, check those out. San Diego, LA. We're coming all over the place, as we like to say.

We're coming all over the place. It's going to be gross. It's going to be disgusting. So come out and see us there and hang out with us at a live show because they really really are fun um do all of that stuff also another way you can get a hold of us quick is our voicemail here you can leave a voicemail and sometimes in our bonus episodes we kind of we go over voicemail calls and it's a fun fun thing uh 602-759-0606 for anything you want. Weird stuff you want to tell us about.

Some strange festival in your town or a murder or just some crazy shit. We're open to hearing it. So do that. Follow us there. You can follow us on social media extremely easily. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram. We are at Small Town Pod on Facebook

and at Murder Small on Twitter. There you go. Find us all there. And if you want to be a hero of ours, God damn it. Oh, by the way, listen to PSA Hate This Movie on Fridays too with me and my wife Sarah Hunt as well. If you want to be a hero of ours though,

an absolute, I mean, one of the people we love. Really? We think of you at Christmas, put it that way. We think of all the warm feelings we have, we send them to you. You want to be one of these people and maybe even want to get access to a ton of bonus stuff. You can do that very easily at Patreon. And we have done small town murder bonuses like every week lately.

This year, this is our ninth one we're doing today. We have some crime and sports ones. So we try to switch it up. Today's episode, this week's bonus episode is going to be a prisoner dating game all violent felon edition oh boy where jimmy has no idea what these people have done until after he chooses a mate so we'll find out will jimmy end up with a pedophile let's find out it'll be a good time all violent felon edition so that's the bonus episode new stuff every week cases weirdases, weird stuff.

You know, we try to put some crap out there for you. So so do that. That is over at Patreon dot com slash crime in sports. Or you can make a one time donation just to be a nice person and get yourself some good karma. Going to PayPal and using our email address, crime in sports at Gmail dot com. And that's another way you can get a hold of the show and let us know anything you want to let us know i think jimmy i think i need to hear people's names oh boy do that's what i need you have them you have them and i need them god damn it smear them all over the wall like your own shit jimmy hit me with them this week's executive producers are

casey crow uh chase uh picking picking paw yep uh heather ramsey jordan bennett jennifer justice Chase Pickenpaw, Heather Ramsey, Jordan Bennett, Jennifer Justice Thompson, thank you very much. You donated both ways. Devon Cleveland, Christopher Kemper, Jared Hohe, he donated both ways. Yo Mama Pushi, which I imagine is them trying to say that my mom's pussy donated to us, which is very sweet. Loops Pussy's so nice to us which is very sweet oh love's pussy's so nice jimmy what a sweet lady it really is a good one uh eric berg uh laura doubt it uh doubt doubt i think so tally sip sipial uh chuan chi chan erica oakton, Michael Orr, Lisa Brink, happy birthday, Lisa. Happy birthday. Retta Ekstrom

gave it to us both ways. She wanted us to say exactly those words. Gave it to us both ways. Alex Hopper, Desiree Rose Buckingham Ramirez, Caroline Russell, Tanya Volanek, Taylor Seaman, which is a brutal name to have, but she donated

both ways. Or he. I'm not going to judge. Seaman, which is a brutal name to have, but she donated both ways. Or he. I'm not going to judge. Seaman both ways. Thank you. Thank you. Taylor Bean, Larry Butterfast and his sweet stash, Stephen Rood, and that is our executive producer this week.

Thank you, guys. Other producers this week, Andrew Wellmer's happy birthday, Savannah Storms, Jenny Murdoch, Savannah Storms, Jenny Murdoch, Joanna Orlando, Zeke Nene, Zach Nene, or Neen? I don't know. Brandy Eastland, Nuhu Ibrahim, I think. Kay Clark, Doug Gerard. Shit. Okay, here we go.

Now I've got six pages of Yes, I Can. Keith Rashad, Jessica Archote, Lindsay Redman, Heather Walter, Megan, no. pages of yes i can uh keith rashad jessica archote uh lindsey redmond heather walter megan no yeah megan peacock amelia penko alexandra lemur nick bowers portland small kendra moran uh nick leturno uh like mary jake mary k mary k yeah mary k right yeah not mary joe no mary joe's Yeah, not Mary Jo. No. Mary Jo is but a Fuco. Right. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Mary Kay was the one that married her kid. Or the student. Yeah. I think Nick took Mary's last name.

Richard Anthony Morris, Liam Smith, Cindy Gallagher, ASDF, which I think somebody just rattled those out on the keyboard. Probably. Alexandria Anderson, Carlos G, Lauren Finkbeiner. What? Finkbeiner. those out on the keyboard uh alexandria anderson carlos g lauren fine uh fine fink fink fink beener beiner what beener i don't probably not let's hope not meredith uh jar uh jar chow uh rosie good goodison that doesn't seem right uh allison snyder dcl spencer sean place uh amanda kruszy Spencer, Sean Place, Amanda Krushinsky, Kim Strzok, Brad Mamura, Mar Mara, Jennifer Gunleman Thompson, Tim Root, Malcolm Williams, Mindy Bond, Michael Karfunkel, Big Tony Kintz, Lisa Chalice, Anthony Palmer, Jason with no last name, Miranda McGuire, Sam Ransom, Alexis DeVries, Tanya Cummins, Eric Federnach, Paul Jutkowski, Jade313, Ren Jaeger, Christine Alberan, Bonnie McRae, Thomas Tipple, Lindsay Fabella, Katie Dench, Paul Boyle, Silly Lily, Aiden Dench. Oh, it's Aiden Dench's birthday.

Happy birthday, Aiden. Kelsey Seaman. Did I say that? No. Oh, it's a different one. It's two people named Seaman. Robin Robinette, Jess Serrano, Aaron Todd, Desiree Sanders, Josh Piper, Kimberly Bunnell, Chris Voss, Hunter Rafferty, Britton McLemore, and Ashley McLemore. Melissa Dubouch.

Oh, damn it. Debauchery. Dubouch Correa, Vid Sankar, Kayla Hunsberger. I think I said Josh Piper. Moving forward to the next page. Fuck. Lisa with no last name. Ant with no last name.

Barry Siegel, Phillip McReeves. Shay with no last name. Cindy Marshall, Dorote Lansfager. Kick. No. Dorote Lansfager. Jammin' with know last name. Jennifer Wilds.

Caroline Larkamp. Barbara Livingston. Billy Lionheart. Kyle Williams. Daniel. No. Yeah. Daniel.

No. Daniel. Baglian. Jesus. Rachel Jobe. Libby Huggett. Brad Dancer. Jamal Jeffrey.

Chris would know last name. Austin Farrell. Lauren Johnson. Kyrie. Kyrie Alisa. Nicky McDonald, Nick Castle, Tegan Bailey, Miranda Miller, Andrew Manning, Elizabeth Freeman, Laura Woolmore, Beverly Frazier, Claire Frederick, Heidi, no, what is that, Helio, Bodega, oh, what, hello, hello, Bodega Kitty, nailed it, got it, fucking, eisen uh morgan graham morgan eberly uh kelsey huff

lauren painter lissy lisa lisa dunn it's not a hard name yeah no it's not lee brown and char uh charfaros mardweed no nerweed uh pamela dugan cindy wagner douglas, Don Peterson, R. Murphy, Megan Manning, MJ, Taylor Whitford, Natasha Markin, Emily Johnson, Alyssa Tyler, Samantha Anthony, Amanda Preuss, I think, Nikki Ansley, Doit, no, Doit. What did I do? Doit Destiny? That's not right. What? I don't know what I'm doing. James Black. Layla Shaik. No. Shaik.

Shaik. Shaik. S-H-A-I-K. Yeah. It's not that difficult, Wissman. Michaela Patricia. Andrea with no last name. Teresa Sternagel.

Joanna James. Drew Bittner. Tatum Wyham. Allison Libhart. Rose Venata. John King. KS. Kabe. Reverend John Gilliard is back in town. Thank you, sir.

Hey, the good Reverend. Sarah Ford, Danielle Marshall, Christina Allen, Yami Leff, Victoria with no last name, Wendy Hill, John Jackson, Rachel Kracht, Aaron Rowe, Marina Maynor, Zoe Graham, Nicole Schoble, Jennifer Carlisle, Kim Oliver, Daniel, no, Diane. That's what that is. Diane Hazen, Sam Kruppet, Terry Stern, Maiza Mazzei, Mazzei Ahira. I'm uncultured and stupid, and I apologize. Lara Cronin, Andrew Sweet, William Hunt, Autumn Rice, Cat Rhodes, Zach Jones, Sammy with no stupid and i apologize uh lara cronin andrew sweet uh william hunt autumn rice cat roads zach jones sammy with no last name kendra nash cole mcelroy uh chris p joseph simmons

jennifer weathers uh matt manley michelle belanger uh allison ricky kevin douglas graham goodman uh dolan dolan dallen tinkman, Cammy Wright, Meg Oldfield, Lisa Neuberger, Neuberger, I think. That's a U, not a V. John Cunliffe, Becky Youngblood, Nicole Ray, Jane Bastin, Sam with no last name, Raleigh Vogan, Blue with no last name, Molly Dubate, or Dubette Dalbert. Kaylin Chance. Austin Presley. Tyler Harrington. Steven Gavin.

What did I do? Kevin. Karen. Karen Burnett. Fuck. Matthew Miners. Andrew Hill. Tyler S.

Elijah. Elijah Chavez. Ethan W. Hillary Vaughn. Don MacArthur Harmer. Jessica Levitt. Kenzie McCarthy. God fucking. Jeff Wigan, Frances, what is this,

Frankincense Sanchez, Catherine Hunt, Nicole Wilson, Jesse James Horman, Joshua Fields, Elias Rotama, Melissa Turner, Maggie Remley, Adrian Neibler, Danielle Atherton, question Nibla? Nibla? Danielle Atherton? Question mark. April Washington. Taylor Beams. Mark Young.

Tori Betty. Tremaine Lasley. Andre Hashim. Jiggly Bean. Elijah. Eliza. Elizabeth. Reed.

Damn it. Mike. Mark Young. Andrew Santos. Shea with no last name. Elizabeth Reed. I said that. Ray C.

Cal. Ray C. with no last name. Callie. I said that. Racy with no last name. Callie Neidhammer. The Bolero family. Thank you very much. Matt Hellman. Allison Canty. Christohol?

What? Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus.

Jesus. I'm sorry. Katrina Mosley. Kyle Roshun. No. Rowland? Rowland. Mm-hmm. Evan Cunningham. I'm sorry. Katrina Mosley. Kyle Rassoon. No. Rowland? Rowland. Mm-hmm.

Evan Cunningham. Chris Ferrara. Michael McKayla. McKayla Miller. Joseph Wirth. Russ Edmondson. Colter Drazel. Matt.

No. Kat. Kat Heiden. Mitchell Miser. Mike Letcher. Trevor Williamson. Stacey Durham. Jay Bonnie.

Logan Wickey. Sidney Keppel. Kirsten Hale. Jennifer with no last name. We are so goddamn close, you guys, I swear. Kate Jones. Connor Heffernan. Yeah. Julie. Yeah.

Julie Watt. Oliver Thomas. Don Ewart. Emily Shea. Gemini. Gemini. Pantojo. Pantojo.

Pantoja. Joseph Hoeft. Matt Buerzi, Brian Eliasson, Kyle Coley, Michelle Brown, Rhi Rendell, Christina Struzzi, Devin Axtman, Stephanie Tucci, Renee with no last name, Charmaine with no last name, Christine Tattoni, Brian Weber, Corbin Knipp, Oliver Kikich, Lisa Schultz, Jacob, what, McReady, Trey Swanson, Michelle Warner, Cindy Weiss-Whistler, Frank with no last name, Kira with no last name, Adam with no last name, Tia Norris, Grant Sackett, Brian Whiteman, Shania Iglesianski, Melissa Gilbert,

Claudio Gonzalez, Kelly McGill, Puckerbrush Enthusiast, Robin Stambo, MPC, whatever that is, Ethan Coleman, Christopher Young,

The Impish Artist, Kate, no, Tate, Tate McClain, Julie Webster, David Meyer, Leland Lern, Joshua Petersonish Artist, Kate, no, Tate, Tate McLean, Julie Webster, David Meyer, Leland Lern, Joshua Peterson, what is it, Dave Kerstetter, yeah, or George Alston, Bob Miles, I think

I wrote, Mikes, I don't know what I did, Mides, Marge, Sonia. I don't know what I did. I don't. Sonia Johansson, no, Sonny. Oh, no, that's Sonny. What? His man's name is Sonny. Oh, no, that's Sonny. What? His man's name is Sonny? I don't know.

Sonny Johansson. Erica with no last name. Matt Tolich. Brandon Danziger. Kristi Knight. Lisa Williams. John Oswalt. No, that's Josh Oswalt.

Eric Michael Grant. Moza. Noza. Devin Radloff. Amy Sorensen. Logan Henneman, Charlie Burr, Stephanie Vela, Christopher, no, it's Chris Peters, Jason Shox-Little, Najah Wallace, Justin, no, Dustin Sefton, Kristen Beneshek, Jen Albert, Alberti,i fuck dingo man 2004 mckenna miss felt uh maggie v stan zetaski michael potter uh ellen ellen dupe bubeck bubeck bubeck uh robin adams uh sean hogan

laurie scarpa jim comiani ryan with no last name ariel uh con Brendan Fedor, Ashley Mello, Phillip Nidecker. Oh, that's Phil Nidecker. He's a good dude. Michael Lockwood, Joshua Childers, BDA Zox, Zach, no, Jack, Jack Byrne. Kim with no last name. Lawrence with no last name. Tio, Teo with no last name. Lins with no last name.

Alex Sanders. Oh, no, that's Alexis Sanders. Robert Allen. Kim, what is that? Cam Sanders. Robert Allen. Kim. What is that? Cam Lewis. Katie Lewis. That's what it is.

Suzanne Luerson. Mary loves Jimmy and James. That's or is that Marie? It's Marie. Well, thank you, Marie. Appreciate you back. Jonathan Hamos. Kyle Davis.

Ariana. No, it's Ariya. Ariana. Ariana. Wizard of Problem Town. Jan Miller, Kathleen Bailey, John Erickson, Dapple Apple, Jared Pitts, Zoe White, Eric Bogan, Amy Schuer, yeah, I think, Patrick Gordon Crowell, Katen Wilson, Elise Flores, Phoebe Taylor, Joseph grinkowitz uh andrea brown katie pickett chris with no last name uh emily trembley elizabeth holobur holobar oh jesus uh penny carver chantelle sheiks shakes shicks

shit uh michael smith maggie lacey lauren harman andrea roberts samantha clark jono Michael Smith, Maggie Lacey, Lauren Harmon, Andrea Roberts, Samantha Clark, Jono Poole, Nicole Jason, Aisha Sequeiro-Locino, Cree Foster, Robert Surwaka, Michael Coco, Jared Hohe. I said that in the first ones. Bobby Hamburger? No, it Hohe. I said that in the first ones. Bobby Hamburger? No, it's not. Morgan, Renee, Evan Pilk, Taylor Cassell, Alex Elliott, Tommy Craig, Connor Orman, Matt Karuk, Emma Fianti?

Fiant? Gant? I don't know what I did. I apologize. I apologize. Reggie Noble, Elizabeth Robbins, David Albury, Yuri Nader, Danny Spang, Devin Williams, Zanny No, it's Danny Zich, Christine, no, Kristen, Beneshek, Deborah Bird, Laura Doudit, Shane Stikeleather.

At least Redman is donating to us. That's good. I was happy to hear Reggie Noble there. Sweetheart of a man, that Reggie. Deborah Bird, I think is, yeah, Chris with no last name. Allison Vernarsdale.

Jared Birch, Paul Gruber, Tracy Renninger, Aaron Gerber, Adriana Knight, AB, Natalie Stadelman, Emily Cleaver, Ashley Vio, Gary Howard, Colorado Kate, Emily Tackett, Robert Kennedy, Laura Gardner. We said that last week.

It's probably not that. There's another one. Danielle Schaub, Aaron Hudson, Michael Griggs, Reagan Shalkley, again, Trey Valkenar, again, Stephen Siegel or Seigel, Peyton Meadows, James Esselstyn, Shannon Russell, Amanda Knight, Jackie Sukup. Hang in there, Jackie. Thank you. Hobby Studios, Jacqueline Donaldson, Amy Amanda, Blomgren, Chad Noss, Alex Hopper, John Erickson, Lindsay Sage, Jennifer Prater, Taylee Rowlinson, Thomas Smith-Volstead, Amy Famous, Amos Rodriguez, Ryan Sargent, Carl Kirshner, Jennifer Prater, I said it, Elizabeth Freeman, Mary Kip Suesley, Christopher Hughes, what is that? Maddie Ladmeralt, I think.

No, it's just Matt. Fuck. John Joyce, Ashley Baker, Jake Antonioni, what? Can't be right. Antonioni. Tony Oni. Hoffley. Holly Hoffman.

Janice Hill. Lucy. Stacey. Vincent. Karen. Andrea Webster. And God damn it. All of our Patreon donors.

You guys are the best. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. You awesomely, awesomely crazy sons of bitches. A real Jackson Pollock. It is. We love you guys. Thank you for doing that for us constantly.

And we just can't thank you enough. Honestly, as much as we say it, I promise you we mean it much, much more. Jimmy, what can they do if they want to find you and say something kind or unkind? You can find me at WestmanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N-S-U-C-K-S, on Instagram and Twitter. And I'm going to make that unbelievable lasagna from Death Row and Botched botched executions i'm gonna try and do that uh friday night at 5 p.m yes my time that's here 8 p.m eastern all right we did do that if a couple weeks ago we had uh weird botched executions and strange last meals as a bonus episode yeah we we do all sorts of stuff we throw it out on patreon i'm gonna try my best to make that how do you how where do they find that on instagram at wisman sucks w-h-i-s-m-a-n sucks what about you place you can find me at

jimmy p is funny or just copy and paste my name from the show description and look for me that way that way you don't have to try to spell it that said guys it's been a wild one what the fuck it's been a weird one thank you england you. You've been weirder than Alabama. You've been grosser than we are. Congratulations, England. You're gross. Which is the name of that. That should be the show. That's it.

Congrats, England. That show that I saw on Netflix could just be called Britain's Disgusting. Congratulations. This show proved it. Till next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members.

You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.