Small Town Murder - #179 - Deep Beneath The Goat Heads in Gunnison, Colorado

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

This week, in Gunnison, Colorado, a happy go lucky young man disappears into thin air, and his friend wonder if he left to build a better life, or if someone in his family might be hiding the truth from them. Over the 2 years that he's missing, many rumors about his life, and possible destination are spread around town. Was he a violent, drug addicted, and lazy person, who abused his sick, elderly mother, or was he a nice person, with a penchant for a clean good time? Either way, where did he go? The truth is disturbing, and wild!! Along the way, we find out people keep weird things in buckets, that no inheritance is guaranteed, and that sometimes it is literally the last person you'd suspect!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Gunnison, Colorado, a young man disappears off the face of the earth and friends wonder if he just ran away to lead a better life or if maybe his family may just have

had something to do with it. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you for joining myself and Peter Brady with his voice-breaking yay. Very nicely done there. Jimmy has got a late puberty going on, and that's all right. We're going to let him go with that. Four chunks of applesauce, James. That's right. Thank you guys for joining us this week.

Hope you enjoyed last week. We were in Maryland. That was fun. That was crazy. That guy was nuts i mean if you didn't hear it last week go back and listen and just hear what this guy had to say in court i don't even it's it was a spectacle the childhood he had to endure it's wild it really created a madman we have one of the this is insane this week we have coming up we're in colorado totally different setting and all that before we get to the show very quickly

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crimeandsports at gmail.com and you're a wonderful person. can do that very easily over at paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com and you're a wonderful person and we will say thank you and you'll get a shout out still jimmy will butcher your name absolutely destroy it so you're out and not do it right quick disclaimer this is a comedy show okay it just all the facts are real murders are all real nothing's made up for comic effect or anything like that but people are gonna die it's a murder show for christ's sake so they're gonna to die and there's going to be plenty of jokes not about the murder that's the thing because there's so much stuff around a murder that can tend to be hilarious of why people make that decision to do that so what we're going to

go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, we're going to have such a wild time this week. It's a crazy story. If you don't think true crime and comedy should ever go together, you should probably turn it off or just give it a shot because it's probably not exactly what you think it is. And then if you don't like it, though, don't complain later because we warned you now.

So with that said, everybody else who's sitting around, damn it, it's time to shout from the bottom of your lungs. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip. I'd love to. Let's do it.

We're going all the way from Maryland all the way out to your home state. As a matter of fact, Colorado this week. Beautiful. It is. This is not the place you're from. This is like the western part of the rockies on the other side of the mountains so it's a little bit different it's rocky as shit over there still the west side of the state is uh yeah it's it's rough it's mountainous as fuck

and it's rough too this is some rugged terrain it's about 8 000 feet elevation here in this town it's gunnison colorado all right it's uh west town it's interesting town it's an old westy kind of town uh western central colorado it's just over there like the like i said west side of the of the rockies on there it's about three hours and 40 minutes to denver so nowhere near there about two hours and 20 minutes to grand junction yeah if you want to go to the west and it's about four hours and 15 minutes to Byers, Colorado, which is our last episode. Episode 134, which was August of 2019. Last time we were in the beautiful state of Colorado. As a matter of fact, we were just there in January.

And it was awesome. It was cold as balls. It was great. It snowed. It snowed the whole day. It was so awesome, man. I loved it so much. We were standing outside the show

talking to people with snow all over us i was the greatest freeways were gross i was gross i loved it it was awesome legal weed flowing everywhere it was just a beautiful time in my life it seems like 10 years ago honestly it was five months ago it seems like that was when i was a boy when i was a boy it was six months ago it was early, right? It was early. Holy shit. Almost six months ago, man. It's nuts. My God. Yeah.

We really got to get out of this state. That's what I'm saying. No one will let us in because our state is on fire, basically. If everybody, if virus were flames, our state's on fire. So not great. So this is in Gunnison County, area code 970. It's four square miles. It's kind of a small town and then

there's all big ranches outside of it there's a lot of like large acreage properties this is real cowboys and it's a little bit of that kind of Aspen Colorado thing too of the you know the upper crust rich yeah like one of the Koch

brothers one of them owns a big giant ranch here where he built like his own little replica Old West town and all that shit. So there's rich people coming in. Coming in for the novelty. Yeah, if anybody's ever read Hunter Thompson at all, he talks incessantly because he lived in Aspen, outside of Aspen and Woody Creek. And he lived there in the 60s when it was turning into Aspen and it was becoming like all real estate. It was affordable at one point. Oh, that's why he moved there because it was a quiet affordable place you could go and you know have some room to yourself and quiet and then it was at right

when he moved there it was turning into this you know real estate thing and he was just so complaining about all i'm sure the real estate hustlers and all these people moving in that just want to make a buck and what about the people who just want to live out here and all this shit? So that's like a lot of his writing. It ends up there. So that is fascinating that they did that to Colorado because really that's Colorado anywhere that you want to live there. That's what it is now.

It's rich people in the nice areas. And then they squeeze everybody out to the pieces of garbage. That's it. He was in this nice area, but he moved like right before it blew up. He had a good sense of that. He was in this nice area, but he moved right before it blew up. He had a good sense of that. He was in San Francisco. He lived on Haight Street right before, like in 1965. Really?

And 66. So right as it was all happening, he was there, watched it all transform. Wow. Interesting. But anyway, motto of this town here is Base Camp of the Rocky Mountains. Okay. Okay. That's fine.

That's what they want to call it's not where you want to be though no uh but there's also another one that the this is what the locals throw around and this is how they feel about it just quote a rootin tootin shootin good time so there's that too i believe that yeah that sounds more likely so the history of this town a little bit it's a fun these old west towns have fun histories there's always violence and yeah you know was there a gold rush here there was gold here there was yeah everything going on here so it got its name gunnison from a guy named john w gunnison who was an explorer here he was looking for a route for the transcontinental railroad and uh stayed for three days before traveling west to

utah yeah because that doesn't seem like the place to do it so they named the town after him who's that who's that one feller stopped by for a weekend what the fuck what his name might not have even been gunnison that's just what they remembered gunnison right his name is perkins his last name is samson no idea yeah it's fucking crazy so uh in the 1870s, people started coming here. Population started happening because of the mining surge throughout the state. They were looking for anywhere they could mine and popping things in there. And then the railroad came a little bit after 1880, and that blew it up. And there was ranchers and farmers and miners.

And once the railroad's in town, you can make commerce. So in the early 1800s, the people that were moving there were just fur trappers and mountain men before that. It's all that used to come out west. Wow. Yeah. No other reason to do it except to get exotic furs that you could sell to rich fucks back east. You could sell to one of the Koch brothers back east. Right.

So they did that. People, I mean, that's a crazy way to make a living. Selling like pelts and shit? Hope I get a bunch of beavers today. Or whatever the fuck eats beavers. Something. I don't know. Yeah.

Mountain lions or some shit. I don't know. Something bigger. Apparently in the 1840s, the fur prices dropped for some reason. I don't know if they figured out how to make fake fur. When did PETA start? Not the 1840s or if this was like one of those like uh there was more people exploring so there was like a glut of fur i don't know if that happened flooded the market yeah so a lot of

people kind of stopped being mountain men in this area and then in the 1850s those people who are like trapping and doing all that shit decided to hunt for gold yeah in this area when gold yeah when gold was a thing. They were in search of placer gold at first. I don't know what that is. But this apparently when all these people came to get gold, the tribes in the area,

the Ute tribes, they weren't okay with this as you can imagine. Oh, you're just going to come in mass numbers. Welcome. Oh, dirt bags too. Just the fringes of your society is going to come out here and just bore into the ground and take our shit i don't think so we're going to say no to that as a matter of fact so several miners were killed by the tribes and this caused a lot of miners to flee the area and uh you know it doesn't matter how much gold's there if you're going to be murdered right it's one of those deals so and that was like deadwood was the same way the town was

safe but if people went outside of town there'd be groups of natives wanting to kill them for being there and you're vulnerable understandably so the mining boom here that's uh that's where people really came in like we said there's miners and all sorts of people here they uh the camps of gunnison reportedly produced about uh 130 ounces of gold through the from the beginning of the gold rush through 1959 which doesn't sound like a lot that's yeah what doesn't it doesn't sound like a lot at all how much money is that i don't know not 130 000 is a lot if you dug it out of one place but not over the course of like a million dug it out of one place but not over the course of like a million dollars it's not over the course of 80 years it doesn't seem like it's

worth it there so also there ended up being silver lead ore around here and that was big too that was ended up being a big deal around this area and the before the railroad there though there was a lot of fighting over fucking which railroad was coming through town that basically the town split in half fighting over which railroad they wanted to come in which is hilarious yeah so uh cattle industry became big here and around the 1880 area also and i think it's still yeah relatively big here so the problem is farming it's not a good place to farm no this is there's not a lot of rainfall there's not i think it's 11 inches of rainfall annually in this area so it's not a good place to farm no this is there's not a lot of rainfall there's not i think it's 11 inches of rainfall annually in this area so it's can't imagine there's a lot of dirt either

and high elevation mixed with it just doesn't really work very well don't go too deep no they really don't so they would just kind of they dug irrigation ditches they you had to hustle to make something go a go of this area this is not inviting land no it looks pretty oh it's gorgeous but it doesn't want you on it and it's clear from what you have to do to be on it and it does not want you there and the wildlife that will murder you yeah that's how i look at arizona too we're like sitting in the middle of this desert and it's obviously like today it's 110 degrees outside if you go into the desert everything there is poisonous and made of rock it's all like these spiky hard things that you've never seen before that will poison you.

So there's no reason for humans to be here. If there was no electricity for three days, this place would be empty. The whole city would fucking empty. It would be over. Seriously. If the dam broke and there's no water what are we going to do that i mean it's this is untenable at best i feel like i don't know how we're pulling this off i don't feel like it's going to last forever sustainable is not a good word for this for

this community it's just spitting in god's face i would call it that's what phoenix means in latin spitting in god's face did you know that it's a real fuck you phoenix is a bird tucson definitely a bird yeah that's what i said bird. Tucson is definitely a bird. Yeah, that's what I said. Tucson means putting a finger in the ass of God. That's what a Tucson is. It's a digital deity penetration. The two worst places to live in Arizona are Tucson and Phoenix.

Oh, yeah. They're awful. Everything north of here is fine. Yuma is the worst place in America, I think, maybe, to live. It could be. Anything south of Phoenix, it's over. It's bad. It's bad stuff.

Jesus Christ. It's terrible. It's really fucking bad. So another guy here, John Outcalt, he was one of the most famous men in the town. Didn't name it after him or anything. What did he do? Guy stopped by for three days. Right.

This guy's famous, though? He helped build the Paragon School, which is still there today, apparently, and the Gunnison Pioneer Museum. Also, he used to be a shipbuilder in New Jersey, and he decided to go out west and build a school instead. And so he did that. The natives liked him even there, which was crazy. He was known as the most trusted white man in the area. He's given away a lot of shit. Yeah.

I don't know if he was just a nice guy or what. That's how you make friends with people, man. Apparently it works. You're beneficial to them. Yes. And in his writings, he said that this saved his life many, many times when he was out there. And they're like, oh, no, it's John.

John's cool. That's great. John's cool, dude. Let him go. Let him pass, bro. He's got things. He's cool as fuck, man. You don't know this guy. He gave me a contraption, makes fire pass, bro. He's got things. No, he's cool as fuck, man. You don't know this guy.

He gave me a contraption, makes fire in your hand. It's fucking awesome. Fuck rubbing sticks. Find John. John's a good dude. I'm telling you guys. Cuts the cooking work in half. Fucking great.

So in 1918, oh, this is perfect. I didn't even realize. In 1918, toward, well, the Spanish influenza epidemic is going on. The Gunnison residents isolated themselves as a town from the surrounding areas. Everybody else can fuck off. Nobody allowed in. Everybody stay and put. Shut the fuck up.

No fucking anything. No bullshit. It wasn't any like, oh, well, I want to leave and I'm going to throw a fit and I'm going to throw myself on the floor of a costco they said stay put or we'll shoot you oh period you're not coming in motherfucker and then guess what happened not one fucking person in this entire town died from the spanish influenza not that isn't one a novel idea not one jimmy i think that epidemic decimated oh millions Not one single person here. There was like 5,000 people. Not one of them killed by the Spanish influenza.

And all it took was leave us alone for a while? They barricaded the highways near the county lines coming in, and train conductors warned all passengers that were going through on train that if they stepped off the train in Gunnison, they would be arrested and quarantined for five days before they'd be let out so it worked i guess not one fucking person died of it so yeah uh this apparently there was a novel called the last town on earth by thomas mullen in 2006 that is kind of that story is based on their quarantine and all that shit so i have some reviews of this town which are always fun people seem to like it here yeah not a lot of bad reviews but even the good reviews have a little stank on them yeah like they mean it

good but it's not good put it that way so it's weird it's a place i could be quarantined yeah it's a real good place to stay put so uh two stars here great place to visit with a lot of outdoor activities but very boring small town well yeah nightlife here is next to nothing. It's Gunnison. It's a goddamn small town in the mountains. What do you expect? The Spanish part of town with their booming nightclubs and large, huge-ass Brazilian women in the windows are just amazing.

Other than that, the town's boring. I don't imagine any world-renowned DJs are going through Pace in Arizona. No, probably not. Or Gunnison, for that matter. It's not going to be popping. No. It's a shithole. It's a shithole.

It sucks. Job opportunities are very low and also very isolated. The housing is affordable, but most people in this town are lower class, making it hard to buy. Well, that seems mean. Oh, my. That's what I mean. The people in town are nice, but at Western Colorado University, which is here also, most students I encountered were not very friendly. Lots of high school-type drama.

This place is beautiful, but not for everyone. Well, they're probably not from around there. That's exactly what it is. That's a college, you dickhead. Yeah. Probably from other parts of the state. They tried their best to get into a nice school. It's like a ranching college, probably.

Tells you how to grow the best beef. There's no buildings. It's just pens and rodeo fucking places and shit. You got to roll out when you show up. Sure. Make your fucking bed under the wagon. You can do it. That's what we're saying.

Here's a three-star review. If you are willing... You're not the correct E-Ware, by the way. If you're willing to work hard, you'll be able to get a job. There are lots of restaurants. Oh, my. Can I have three jobs at restaurants? Because that's what I'll need to get by.

Probably when I tell you the housing prices, seasonal jobs and many people have more than one job, depending on what you want. Yeah. So if you have three fucking jobs, you can survive here. That's terrific. That goes for anywhere. And that sucks. Shit. That's terrific. That goes for anywhere, and that sucks. Shit. So three stars.

There is some big companies like City Market, Safeway, Ace, and the Tractor Store, and a small, warm Walmart with no grocery section. Lots of small businesses and variety of restaurants. Sure. So a few corporate places weaseled their way in. Yeah, and here's restaurants. Sure. So a few corporate places weaseled their way in. Yeah. And here's a three-star. Being someone of the age, being someone of the age,

I guess that's an old person. Olderly. The age. I have the age. That's like an old man in the 80s going, he's got the HIV, that one. I've got the age. A person of the age.

The age. Not a certain age, just the age. It's going to get me any day now. He waiting to die there's an order what are you sick of i'll be i'll be gone by then what's wrong the age oh my i would like to see more establishments where one can go out and have a nice beverage she means like a nice tea i feel like not a you think that's what it is i see more madmen where they're like nobody in town can make a good fucking old-fashioned maybe that's what it is a nice beverage all the college kids out there this cocktail bitch yeah there's not a very large variety and i need a place to go for my martini hour right it's 1958 there's not a very large

variety in gunnison and then here's a three star very short people tend to live here for a while okay pet and family friendly oh good they don't they don't shoo kids out at the fucking at the at the gunnison sign what do you got a dog they don't stop what we don't we don't take kindly to dogs around these parts and what's that little person you got there that little miniature child? They're bringing children in here. We're allergic to cats. Get them off the train at gunpoint and quarantine them. Make sure that other people don't catch.

We don't know if that's a child. It could be just a person with a disease making them tiny. Looks like I got polio. And they can give it to others. So we're going to quarantine and test them and probe them like an alien. And then we'll figure out from there the dogs just we're gonna shoot that out we're gonna use that for manure or some feed or something i'll wear that i'm gonna wear it around my neck like a trophy so people in this town here uh population 6,250 so 6,000 yeah it's got

western colorado university in it which i think it's probably a probably 3 000 people a bulk of it yeah considering the median age here is 25.8 really yes it's all and there's a lot of old people that like residents so it's a lot of college kids the married population it's usually 50 50 here it's 25 so it's it's college as fuck it's college kids 57 never married that's usually a third i mean all of this shit low divorce actually no the divorce rate is actually higher no one's married but they have a higher divorce rate than normal okay uh and also single with children is way higher than normal as well so i don't know college kids they're getting knocked up yeah it's a little

drunk and irresponsible so uh you you know how that goes. Oh, those days. Oh, those days. So, not that we went to college, either of us, but we were that age of people in college. I was drunk and irresponsible. Yeah, I was an irresponsible 19-year-old once. That I have experience in.

I'm just too irresponsible for college. I was drunk and irresponsible on the age of somebody at the end of med school. There you go. Perfect. Someone about to of med school. Perfect. Someone about to get their license. With zero education. That's perfect.

Race of this town. It's about a little over 80% white. So pretty white. 0.3% black. So not a lot of black people here. 0.0% Asian. This school's really got to loosen it up. Wow, that is weird as shit.

It's got to be like a rodeo college. It has to be. I don't know. It has to be. It's got to be something, right? I would imagine. There's gear towards something specific? It's all I can imagine.

17.9% Hispanic, which that makes sense. It's Colorado. A lot of Hispanic people in Colorado, and that's about the national average anyway. 40% of the people here are religious, and there's a pretty good spread, except for the most is Catholic, actually. I could see that. Yeah, 27% Catholic. Less, only 2% Mormon. Really?

They must set the barricades up at the county line. Just like, two things we're guarding against. Spanish flu and them fucking Mormons. Neither of them are coming in here. They just spread everywhere each and everywhere uh 0.0 percent jewish not a lot of uh jewish rodeo very few and uh 0.0 percent muslim which there's even fewer yeah i feel like they hate it they probably are straight up and down fuck it not. So this town actually politically is pretty liberal, actually.

55% Democrat in the last election, 35% Republican, and 10.5% Independent. College kids, they'll go wherever. So they'll go Independent. And it's Colorado. Yeah. That state keeps you fucking guessing. You never know what they're going to do. Who knows?

They are a wild card if there ever was one. One thing they do in this town is work. Because the unemployment rate here, as of a couple months ago, before everything, is 1.7%. Which is literally the lowest I've ever seen anywhere on the planet. Of the 178 towns we've covered, it's the lowest. It could be work and college kids, too. You know what I mean? Yeah.

College counts as that. It sounds like a college that is not uh i don't know we've done college town super popular to like yeah for you know what i mean 1.7 seems like working class kids maybe and also probably people out on a ranch if that's i don't know if that counts as what that count says so household income here though is a little bit low normally it's about 57 and a half thousand here it is 41 and a half thousand so that's a little bit low what you're going to get with college kids obviously not a lot of people making over 150 grand in this area at all uh cost of living though is a little high overall 100 is regular average here is 101 but the housing is 119 oh yeah housing is expensive here property's expensive apartments are cheap

okay it's like you were saying rich people and then they shove everybody else out into the cheap shit that seems like colorado yep median home cost 274 700 bucks here yeah and if we've convinced you damn it you need to have a rootin tootin shootin good time we have for you the gunnison colorado real estate report two-bedroom rental here goes for about 913 dollars a month which is lower than the national average and the real estate prices are higher so that's the way to go man kind of thing because everything's expensive. I found a one-bedroom, two-bath, 1,121-square-foot house. It's a stone house, so it's like a nice old house. It's on an acre, and it's got like a big greenhouse next to it that comes with it as well. Colorado.

There you go. $389,000 for this, though. Holy shit. 1,100 square feet of living space. I was trying to tell you, you're going to turn a profit in that profit in that greenhouse fucking better because that's just for your worker quarters or something your trimmers will stay there i have a four bedroom three bath 2683 square foot house oh boy this is a nice house really 2.5 acres beautiful this is like a house you'd want sure is it 600 something 789 000 bucks jesus christ yeah it's expensive man it's pretty oh my then i found this you need to stretch out okay six

bedroom five bath almost a t-bowl for every b-hole 6468 square foot oh jesus beautiful big giant ranch on 4900 acres of what beautiful like mountainside real estate. It's gorgeous. 5,000 acres. Yeah. Talking about $5 million? $3,495,000 for that. Yeah.

That's whatever you wanted to spread out. That's pretty decent though for that much acreage. It's not a bad price. Yeah. Some of these places are really expensive depending on where you are. If it's like right by a river or water, holy shit is it expensive. 4,900 acres. So you could turn portion of that into some fucking something,

some crop growing. I guess so. Ship that shit out of the state. Why not? Things to do here. They have cattleman's day. Oh, oh boy.

Cattleman's day. It's a whole day. Rodeo shit. Obviously it's a, a rodeo in Colorado that takes place over a 10 day period in July. Oh shit, man. Uh, rodeo in colorado that takes place over a 10-day period in july holy shit man uh celebrating its 112th year of rich western heritage in a first clash first class and nationally recognized rodeo that's wonderful here holy shit in 2011 this rodeo was nominated as one of the

five finalists for mid-size rodeo of the year, which is a very prestigious award right there. I'll tell you what here. Jesus Christ. Cattlemen Days also offers scholarships to support and further the education of 4-H exhibitors. Oh, boy. That sounds... I mean, I get what you're doing, but...

That's great, but that place smells like shit. I'm not going anywhere near that event. There's shit everywhere. If you move out of there, then what are you doing but that's great but that place smells like shit i'm not going anywhere near that event there's shit everywhere if you move out of there then what are you using all that information that you just stored in your brain not at all you have to stay there that's the thing people stay here forever in this place that live here 4-h knowledge oh i got it all here is the also the gunnison river festival oh boy it says due to our amazing snowpack the 16th annual gunnison river festival will take place over two weekends holy shit all whitewater park events have been rescheduled for august 24th uh bar pearl i bar pearl jam concert i don't know what the fuck that is cover band for

pearl jam i guess uh down river races that sounds safe uh and uh i bar slash world tour paddling film fest what the fuck is that um i don't know what's happening paddling is there like a festival festival based they call it the world tour paddling i don't know what the fuck's going on like river rafting it's either that or like... A Kevin Bacon movie? Yeah. Whitewater Summer? Light bondage, maybe. I don't know what's going on. It's Whitewater Summer. That's all it is.

They just show Whitewater Summer over and over again. On loop. Is that Sean Astin? I think it is. Okay. That Kevin Bacon's a real dick. He's been in everything. He broke his leg?

Good. Fuck him. They're going to carry him out? Ah, for Christ's sake. He doesn't deserve it. Let him get eaten by bears. I remember thinking that as a kid. I would done it fuck that guy so rock trapped on you cocksucker here's a pocket he deserved it yeah best of luck carve it off he'll make another movie he will with one

leg so crime rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime just above average nothing crazy just kind of above the average rate and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault mount rushmore of crime is just below average oh so it's it's usually college towns are like that higher property lower violent yeah they'll steal your shit and stuff like that but they won't murder you but they're not murdering as much oh yeah that counts as you better calm down that counts as violent. You better calm down. That counts as violent. So let's talk about a murder, Jimmy. Shall we?

Yeah. Let's do this, because this is, wow, this is twisted, man. This is some weird stuff. Now, this is just outside Gunnison. There's a town called Parlin. It's barely a town. It's not a town. It's a sign, really. There's nothing there.

If you look it up, there's no, like... P-A-R-L-A-N? P-A-R--r-l-i-n like carlin with a p got it but it's just it's it's a nothing thing and this is just outside of this ranch is just outside of parlin between parlin and gunnison got it but gunnison's the nearest town it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Down here. So that's where this ranch is that we're going to be talking about the 7-eleven ranch yeah oh boy oh boy can't do that well they did it yeah what are you doing it's been called that for like 100 years though okay so yeah i think they had it before 7-eleven figure it out i think they used to be 7 to 11 because that was their hours and then they now they're 24 hours so they just call it 7 i don't know why

they did that by the way it's a really weird i guess the hours would be fine but now call it 24 7 hey look at you not bad that's pretty good keep the same color tells you exactly what's going on yeah i think it's the same thing we're still going there slurpy still the same shit in there that's fine i don't understand the damn gas station either way what are you gonna do okay so let's go all the way back in time now. All the way. Tumbling through the clocks and the lightning and everything. Back to 2015.

Okay. I'm not going back too far. It's a short trip here. It sure is. This is a modern one we're going to do here. A modern, old, westy, ranchy thing. This is good stuff. It's going to be confusing.

Oh, no, no. This is great, man. First of all, I have to give credit to an article in The Atlantic by Rachel Monroe is the name. The person who wrote it had really good detail that a lot of anything else didn't have. And this person actually went to this town and talked to people involved. And this wasn't just like an AP pick up on a news story. This person really did some investigation on her own so i want to get there i want to make sure to give her credit for this because definitely that's a

not hard not easy to do yeah so uh now let's talk about a guy first off let's talk about a guy named jake millison oh okay jacob is his full name millison and gunnison and millison and gunnison everybody calls him jake okay jake is he grew up on this ranch and uh you would love jake sounds like a cowboy he's gonna be your kind of guy not really a cowboy so much ranch and he likes to smoke his weed hell yeah lives on the ranch likes to smoke his weed and hang out easy going kind of a well some people say he's an easygoing kind of laid-back guy and some people say he's not so it's a he's got a couple of different things about he doesn't like you either let's talk about him he's 29 years old in 2015 all right he still lives with his mother at this point come on but it's on this ranch oh yeah he's waiting

he's waiting her out yeah too is the other oh this is what people do when they have large amounts of this is me and you don't know this because neither no one in our families ever owned anything but people with like property yeah like they'll stay there and wait out their parents so then they inherit the property that's how it works so it's a different in a different world than we're living in or they go live their own life and then find out their parents are sick and then they go back home for a while that's yeah they die and they're like this is my right now i can take all this stuff. That's what people do. Get rid of all this shit and bring my shit in here.

All right, yeah. This place would be nice without all this old lady shit around. I'll tell you what. And the old lady. Including her. Whatever that smell is. Don't worry.

I'll bury you and all this shit in the same hole. Perfect. Don't worry. I'll send it. Nope, it'll go right in the dumpster. Don't you worry about it, Grandma. Sorry, Grandma. Sorry, Grandma. That's terrible.

So Jake, in 2015, is 29 years old, lives with his mom, hangs out at a local dive bar called The Alamo. That's his hangout spot with his friends. And there's not a lot to do in Gunnison. That's why I put the reviews in there, so you'd know that not really too much going on. It's boring. It's boring so if

you're a local and you're a younger person you want to socialize you go to the same dive bar always you know there's nothing wrong with that either i don't new york's nice you can go to a different bar every goddamn night but sometimes it's nice to just go to the same damn place i would hate to see the same people drink your same beer on the same bar store i want to be so anonymous when i'm in a place i don't want anyone to know who i am like i don't want people i know to be there i don't want the fucking bartender to know who i am you can still be that guy in the corner there everybody's like who the fuck is that they're all like he's here every night and they make up stories the next thing you know hell yeah seriously there's a you ever watch your lord you watch cheers back in the day a little bit

there's an episode where they put as an experiment one of them uh diane put this this creepy looking guy in the bar yeah and they just had him sit there and like take notes and stuff yeah and basically the whole bar devolved into chaos as they would like have meetings in the bathroom about who this guy is and creating a backstory for it no like getting paranoid of like who is this guy what did you do did you do something was this like the fbi like they started like freaking out and all this shit and he was just a guy so that would be great for you so i could do that that'd be good but i'd rather just have no attention at all and be completely anonymous and walk into a place and sit there and never have anyone like if they went in on like in

law and order with a picture and be like this guy was he here they'd be like i don't know that's what i want not even a recognition by the bartter. Maybe. I don't know. Was he tall, I guess? Looks like a lot of people. I don't know. A hat on, maybe? Yeah. So, yeah. His friends know him as a reliable kind of guy, but he's also laid back, like we said.

He loves his weed, likes his weed. He grows weed on the farm sometimes and shit like that. On the ranch, I mean, he's a good dude. Seems all right like that. on the farm sometimes and shit like that. On the ranch, I mean, he's a good dude. Seems all right like that. Like his friend, his one friend was saying like,

you know, if you have plans, he's going to like make sure to get a hold of you the day before to make sure the plans are still on. He's very reliable. With him. Not just like, you still going to hang out with Bob? All right, just checking on you, pal. That's what I thought you meant. Making sure you're going to keep your plans

with Susan tomorrow, that's all. He's just everybody's fucking receptionist. He's going around. Heard you were going down to the river tomorrow. You're still going, right? No, I'm not. Oh, no, no. I have to work.

I have plenty of shit to do. There's other stuff to do. So make sure you're... Make sure you're going. Sure. You know what you're up to. You told me last week you're having chicken parm tonight. You're having that, right?

I'm having that right still. You changed your mind. Ah, for Christ's sake. Can you let me know ahead of time next time? You're such a flake. When did you know you were not doing that? Yesterday could have called me you could have called well i make notes i don't know it's a thing that i do fuck i'm not saying it's my business i'm just saying i like to keep you know it makes me feel better is it saying it's my business i'm saying it's my thing that big of a deal don't make me come and look in your windows while you eat

dinner please because that's really i have to break in and look through your fridge and then we gotta have a conversation you know i don't like this so he had plans with somebody he has plans yeah he's gonna do that but he's he's a he's a reliable guy they said one time they took a motorcycle a motorcycle trip to california because he's got a bunch of motorcycles hell yeah as you would like and uh he's the one who like brought like he thought to bring like first aid kits and shit like that along with him there's nobody else did i never that's what i mean yeah he's the guy who was like yeah i got that he brought like a tarp in case there was rain and they had to cover things i mean i guess if you're on a ranch you have to kind of figure

out it's all on you no one's gonna do anything a lot of boy scouts in colorado that's the other thing so but he's he's lived on this ranch the 7-eleven ranch most of anything. There's a lot of Boy Scouts in Colorado. That's the other thing. But he's lived on this ranch, the 7-Eleven Ranch, most of his life. It's a 700-acre property. Something tells me it might be 711 acres. Got it. I bet you're right. That's possible. But it's a 700-acre property that they talk about being worth a couple million dollars, basically, where it is and everything.

So he lives there. He does a lot of the work on the ranch lives there with his mom who at this point in time is uh in her late 60s of the age she's looking for a nice beverage and uh also his mom is very frail his mom is five foot tall about literally 85 pounds maybe tops very very tiny woman and she just has like in this year she had a surgery as well it makes her weaker so but she's still like known as like a wiry tough lady that'll go out and do ranch shit even though she weighs 85 pounds one of those the ranch people they're a

different kind of breed than me they don't look hardy but boy are they they're hardy people so they'd said though most evenings that he would go he'd leave uh you know he'd leave the ranch he'd go there's a gym he worked out at jake and then he'd stop by the alamo hang out and they said creature of habit always at the same table always had the same drink he'd order a coke most of the time what that was it his friend said once in a while he'd have a seven and seven as a drink or possibly two but no one one's really ever seen him have more than two drinks at a bar. They said he drinks two at the most because he's usually the designated driver.

Prepared. By the way, that's a redneck thought. Yeah. Like, well, he only had two. That's the designated driver. Have that guy drunk. He's the least drunk. And it's not like he's drinking two beers.

He's drinking two seven and sevens. And in Western Colorado, those are tall. Yeah. It's just one he's drinking two beers. He's drinking two seven and sevens. And in Western Colorado, those are tall. Yeah. It's just one of those things. And normally, designated driver means you don't drink alcohol for the night. But this is like, he's not going to drink enough to get shit-faced. So he can still drive. In Western Colorado, the bartender takes a couple pulls out of the bottle and then fills the rest with seven.

There you go. Good, good. That'll be enough. That'll be enough for you. There you go. Good, good. That'll be enough. That'll be enough for you.

So, but I mean, he's just, that is like, I guess that's being responsible if everyone else is getting hammered, though. And you're like, I'll stop at two, wait a couple hours and drive everybody home. He's a responsible guy. That's that sort of deal. He's got a close-knit group of friends that he hangs out with, about six or seven people that he hangs with, his friends he's known for a long time some of them and these are all kind of blue collar guys mechanics lumberyard guys then you know people you hang you tend to hang out with the same right especially if you're growing up you know together and you're a group hanging out usually one of you isn't like headed to work at the lumberyard while another one's going off to harvard this summer it's just not you know what

i mean all of my friends growing up were all have nothing had nothing going for them the same way i did i had nobody that was a successful friend like oh man pete's really doing it nope all fucking jackasses all morons i was super happy about it because i was making decent money and one of my friends goes uh you're never gonna get rich doing that you're still always gonna be blue collar and broke and i was like you have an oxy addiction what are you why are you ripping on me i'm the most successful guy here yeah i have a job yeah i just have a job in a shitty one-bedroom apartment and i'm killing it jesus we were all garbage is what i'm telling you it's it garbage people all of us top of the garbage heap yeah right there with you so uh but all these guys would hang out and uh they'd shoot pool at the alamo there and all that shit and then jake would go back to the ranch because he had to get up

early and do a lot of ranch work um that sort of shit one of his friends here and wow antronik uh ajarian is the person's name uh this person, he comes up several times over the course of this story. Well, this is going to be a bit unpronounced. Yeah. Ant. I'll call him Ant. Yeah. Like Antony.

Ant. That's not being disrespectful, but I don't want to mispronounce his name 45 times over the course of the story. And then we're going to get a tweet from the fucking guy. Yeah. Ant. Ajarian. And then he says it's Aharian.

I don't want to do that. So Ant is the first three letters. We're going with Ant. You can call me Jim if you want. Enjoy. Friend A. I don't care about my name. So I hope you don't care about yours.

So anyway, he said that, quote, everything was like clockwork with him about Jake. He's kind of just a dependable guy. And then we'll talk about a little bit how where jake came from who he is here uh his parents split up when he was six he's got a sister named stephanie who's a year older than him and she'll come into the story big time here um his father his name was ray uh the the aunt friend hey look at that first opportunity to use it aunt described him in a like complimentary fun way he described his dad as a quote old crazy gun guy and that's a positive that's in like a you know like a fuse when i was all crazy like you know picture like the the old mountain do ad with like a shoeless hillbilly shooting at a

fucking someone outside of an outhouse that's what what i picture you know like a fun but in a fun way right which is weird or as a vet you know i mean a war vet that just loves guns they might just let and they're on a ranch so i mean there's gonna be anything yeah who the hell knows here uh but eventually this guy they get divorced like we said when jake is six and his sister is seven and his dad ray moves to new mexico to a ranch out in New Mexico. So away from the kids. So he's kind of doesn't have a father right away. But Deb, his mother, who's the five foot tall, 85 pound little lady here, she ends up getting

remarried pretty quickly, actually. Really? Find somebody else. A guy named Rudy Rudabaugh. Oh, boy. Yeah. Rudy. Really?

Rudy Rudabaugh. You can't do that to your kid. No. Well, maybe his nickname was Rudy. It's probably Rudolph. Rudabaugh. You can't do that to your kid. No. Well, maybe his nickname was Rudy because his last name was Rudabaugh. It can't be Rudolph Rudabaugh. No. That's fucked up, too. No, no, no, no.

I mean, his name could have been fucking Frank, but they called him Rudy because his last name was Rudabaugh. I'm on board. That's possible. Yeah, I can see that. But when he put it together and it's Rudy Rudabaugh. That's fucked up. You sound like a bad cartoon character at that point.

You sound like a punch cartoon character at that point so like a punchline yeah exactly now when they got married broody was 20 years older than deb so he's an older guy he's a widow his wife had died 10 years before that or something and he's a rancher so this all works out pretty well right uh this is when the kids move into the ranch and they have this ranch life after that as one he is a townsman is quoted as talking about rudy that he is quote one tough little turd oh and that's again complimentary that's a compliment we call rudy one tough little turd that rudy it's an old man he's the one that just you can flush that toilet 14 15 tile just keep floating back on up to the top. Tough little turd right there.

He farts against the current. You know what I mean? Who the hell said that about him? A townsperson? That's like the... I assume that's the general... That's like the general consensus because that's the quote they use to describe him.

So that's the consensus. Poor bastard. Hi, I'm Rudy. One tough little turd. Vote Rudabaugh this fall. One tough little turd vote rudabaugh this fall one tough little turd i am theodore rudy rudabaugh and i am a tough little turd tough little turd that's a great campaign sign vote vote your conscience vote the turd if joe arpaio ran with that it would be hard not to yeah it'd be hard not to vote for him well

if he was running for little turd if that was an office he'd be a shoo-in i mean he could exchange turd for piece of shit and it'd be more on the nose yeah that's better i'm a tough piece of shit that's right he's a piece of shit i believe it like we said that is not political that's objective that's like saying ted bundy's a piece of shit. I believe it. Like we said, that is not political. That's objective. That's like saying Ted Bundy's a piece of shit. Yeah. Because he killed a bunch of people and started a pie on his fucking jail. So fuck him too.

They're both pieces of shit with bodies on them, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry. Sorry about that. It's a local thing. That's not my fault. So we've been trapped too long in the house. So he, Rudy, the tough little turd, he had served as a frog man in world war ii which is lurking in rice paddies beneath uh breathing through a straw what that's crawling through rice paddies submerged breathing through a straw looking to pop up and fucking kill

people he's one of these they would send him out looking send him out looking to attack people out of nowhere. A surprise attack. He's the front line. Yeah. Those guys are nuts. That's a terrible job. Never mind the possibility of being shot and killed and the fact that you've got to kill a bunch of people. Just being underwater in a rice paddy with a fucking straw.

I don't know what lives in there. Snakes and shit. I'm not going in there. In an Asian country country i'm not familiar yeah i don't think this was happening in france wildlife is who knows that's what i mean the philippines or something that's crazy colorado i know how to live there i can't do this shit rudy's a tough motherfucker that that they can skip turd yeah he's just a tough son of a bitch so after the war right after the war rudy bought the 7-eleven uh ranch right

after it so that's shit i mean he's on this thing for years or 50 years and uh basically he had a uh a hunting business out of here they used the ranch as a hunting camp where he would take groups out and you charge money to take groups of city people out to fucking dress some rich fuckers up that's it right there i'd just go up in the mountains and trap shit and let it loose on the property and be like there's a wild thing that's 50 thank you thank you very much so rudy was known as his own kind of cat he wasn't he was different than he was a different kind of dude he did whatever he fucking felt like. He's a goddamn. He goes to rice paddies with a straw.

This guy is a hero. Yeah. That's not. Okay. If you're thinking about how do we attack the enemy? All right. We could fly over and drop bombs on him. Here, I'll take the left flank and we can send the second cavalry around the thing.

We can do all that. Or here's an idea. We can ram them right up their asses. Submerge people in the rice paddies. It's like a breather of straw. It's going to be fine. We'll stick them right in there. Stick them in the water.

What about air? I've got it solved. Straws. Throw them a straw. You have pussy straws. What if it breaks? We'll give them an extra one. What the fuck? Two straws?

What's that going to cost us? It's in your pocket. It's fine. So we said, like, that's a crazy idea to even come up with, is that as an idea for an attack. It's wild. And then this guy's like, yes, sir's a crazy idea to even come up with, is that as an idea for an attack. It's wild. And then this guy's like, yes, sir. Yeah, I'm in there. He dives in, straw in his mouth.

At some point, though, I get it. You took a note for the country. At some point, can't you at least be like, bad idea? That's a terrible plan, right? I've never done that. I knew I'd be like lined up and sent places and have to shoot and be shot no one said shit about submerging in rice patties with unknown wildlife with a straw out of my mouth no no i'm totally willing to die for the country

but let's not all good suicide for the country totally i'm fucking there but i mean yeah i read a lot of stuff about like world war one in. I don't remember straws ever being used. This is weird. Feels like we have better technology than this. Yeah, but he did it. Well, when he gets back, he's got some ingenuity here. He uses, this is obviously before cell phones back in the day and shit like that, between hunting camps, rather than use telephones, he would send carrier pigeons to other hunting camps.

Wow. He trained carrier pigeons who would send with messages back and forth. Jesus. So that's fucking crazy. He's a patient man. You want to hear something crazier? Well, when Jake and Steph were little kids, Rudy bought an African lion cub. No.

They had a fucking lion. These people had a fucking lion, Jimmy. He did well for himself. A goddamn lion. He could afford a fucking lion these people had a fucking lion jimmy he did well for himself goddamn lion afford a lion what the fuck you can't just buy a lion she's two small children i bought a lion what are you nuts you ever try to bring a dog home without consulting anybody he comes home with a lion come home with a golden retriever you're gonna get yelled at this guy comes home with a fucking lion no no kids pet a golden retriever, you're going to get yelled at. This guy comes home with a fucking lion. No, no, kids, pet it. It's for, what, were you nuts?

Is that a golden, oh my God, that's a fucking lion. They kept it chained in the horse corral. As if that's going to hold him. That's what they did. There's horses. Oh yeah, then there's the lion. Watch out for that. I'm going to go check out the horses.

Be careful of the lion. What? Where the fuck am I? Hey, Jake, can you come over right now? I got to go feed out the horses. Be careful of the lion. What? Where the fuck am I? Hey, Jake, can you come over right now? I got to go feed the horses and the fucking lion. You know what they kept it? What they fed it? A diet of roadkill.

Oh, my God. They fed it roadkill. They're Joe Exotic. Yeah, they lived like off a highway. So there was constant roadkill. It was like their address is on like Highway 75 or something. So they just go out to the highway, whatever roadkillkill throw it to the fucking there you go lion that is horrifying yeah and neighbors eventually complained you know that you're doing crazy shit when you have 700

acres and your neighbors still complain about something you are causing too much problem 9-1-1 yeah my neighbor's rooster has a god-awful roar yeah you're not gonna believe it's wild it's i mean well i'm afraid of the damn thing it's crazy it eats roadkill it's a big rooster this rooster really sounds like the king of the fucking jungle apparently the the uh the neighbors complained that the lion just being anywhere in the area was frightening all their livestock. They could sense it. They'd hear the roar. They knew it was something that shouldn't be around there and that they should be scared of. And I guess the livestock were constantly paranoid.

They were always fucking looking over their shoulders. How about goats to trim the grass on my property? They won't do it. They're terrified. The sheep go, bah! You can't get it out. You can't get a whole buy out they're just very paranoid now our cows have started saying no shit fucking can you imagine is there a fucking lion around here what's going on you know somebody in the neighborhood was like that's not legal right they can't have a lot i

know it's i know it's colorado and everything and we're a little loosey-goosey with the laws but we can't just have fucking lions running around right right? Right? There's got to be something. So, yeah, they kept it chained. Neighbors complained. Eventually, somebody from the highway shot and killed the lion. Really? Yeah. I assume one of the neighbors had enough one night and they fucking, yeah, from the highway shot and killed the lion.

And so the lion was no more. So they didn't get a new lion because it was gone. Rumor is it was a dentist from Missouri or something like that. Definitely. Took him right out. That's beautiful. So Jack and Stephanie are homeschooled by Deb, I guess. They said it was mainly so they could help work on the ranch.

This is fucking hard work. This is hard work. Like it was, you know, they needed to. This is fucking hard work. This is hard work. So homeschooling consisted of branding calves and bailing hay and repairing tractors and leading hunting trips for people and, you know, doing shit with the horses. And that's, you know, that's homeschool. I mean, I don't know if they did other stuff. I don't know Deb's blessed plan or anything, but either way, that's John Deere.

I'm going to tell you all about Ben Franklin. Maybe that's what it was, too. I mean, maybe who knows? We don't know. So Rudy, though, as he gets older, he's you know, he was in World War Two, for Christ's sake. So as the late 90s come around, he's pretty aging and not as physically able to do a lot of ranch shit. So from then on, Jake was expected to be the guy to, you know, do the hard lifting basically, the heavy lifting for his stepfather here. The family, they said, in the area was often the last to finish putting up their hay for

the season. That's tough. Because they were behind? Yeah, because Rudy and Jake did all the work by themselves, apparently. And then when Rudy couldn't do it anymore, then it was all Jake at that point. So finally, as a teenager, Jake started going to public school for the first time. Really? She must have been like, yes, there's girls that aren't my sister.

The ass is around here. Girls that aren't my sister or livestock. This is tremendous. Holy shit. That would feel great. And Jake's, like I said, Jake's like a chill, cool guy. He's a laid back kind of guy. I bet girls would have probably liked him. He's a fun country boy. Yeah, he's a fun dude, Jake's like a chill, cool guy. Like he's a laid back kind of guy. Beck girls would probably liked him.

You know, it's a fun country boy. Yeah, he's a fun dude. People really like the guy. So early on, though, he got in trouble because he had a rifle in the back of his truck. And the school told him because this is like, you know, the fucking late 90s. You can't do that. Remember Columbine up on Columbine real soon. That's what I mean, which was not that far away.

Three hours east. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So he got in trouble, but he literally didn't realize you weren't allowed to bring guns to school because he just where he lives. It's like a hammer. Yeah, where he lives. Everybody's got a gun in their truck. What if fucking what if a lion comes out of here? You never know.

God damn it. Ranch is an unpredictable place. Fucking lions popping out everywhere. So he had no no idea they just thought that's what you did and they're like you can't do that like he it was like having the fucking knell in here or something it's weird so uh yeah he he had like i said he was never really got off the ranch much in his life fish out of water yeah but once he gets there he immediately is makes friends he does well with people um uh him and aunt uh are become very close they uh they like they're both neither of them are real gregarious outgoing guys so if they find somebody who you can just chill and talk on a quiet or low lower frequency level with you kind of get along

and then they ended up picking up different guys from that into this group and ended up with about six seven guys in the end that all kind of similarly kind of chill laid-back people no there's not a lot of just you know real boisterous guys that are running around acting crazy here um you know they're and they do just outdoor shit they camp and they're fuck with their motorcycles and go off in the woods and they're not in the woods in the mountains and tearing through trails on their bikes and shit like that and you know just things that guys that age around there do uh now after high school jake stayed at the ranch because he was the one doing the work while everybody else kind of went to town he went to gunnison people got apartments and you know like i said we're working mechanic jobs and doing all that sort of shit here they They said Jake, though, he's not real friendly with strangers, not unfriendly, but just I don't know if that comes from just being raised on a ranch and not encountering a lot of strangers except for people that are like customers or whatever. So I don't know if that's what it is. They said he's a little standoffish. But once you're his friend, you big smile great guy right you know never you never leave your side type of guy um they said that he had a

lot of a lot of appetite he always wanted to hang out with people always wanted to do stuff and you know always wanted to be with his friends he uh he was they said the know-it-all of the group kind of though like he was always telling his friends that they were doing shit wrong and stuff like that and you know what you should do right yeah that sort of thing i don't know where that comes from uh but they said they actually they said you knew you knew we meant he meant well so you didn't get him mad at it uh his friend aunt there said quote we used to say yeah he's an asshole but he's our asshole so he's fine okay one of those things a lot like you probably say to me probably about me i would say yeah i

love him yeah he's a fucking lunatic but you know what he puts together a hell of a story so listen some people have the talent that they're you know i mean that they need you gotta have that you know what i mean yeah you're gifted with the talent i got you that brings people to you fuck it right so uh now in 2009 jake's 23 and rudy dies as he was like i said he was a lot older he was in his 80s at that point um now stephanie receives an inheritance from him of 30 000 she received that before he died for a down payment on a house that she bought in Denver. We'll talk about that. So he put the 30 down and was like, there's your inheritance.

Gave her an inheritance ahead of time, yeah. Jake didn't get any money, but he just basically figured the assumption was that he and his stepbrother, Rudy's son from his first marriage, would eventually inherit the ranch, and Jake would take care of it and do all that shit. So that's how he thought of it. That's why he's still on the ranch. So one of his friends said, quote, Gunnison ranchers don't move away. This is one of those

things. They said Jake was tied to the land. He wasn't going anywhere. He liked that way of life. He liked having the ranch and he was going to stay there. So Colorado, by the way, I don't know if you knew this, like through the 90s and 2000s especially, they have a there's a real water issue in Colorado. Is there?

Big time. Like groundwater? Water rights are a huge fucking thing. Big deal. Like apparently, normally you buy land. Like here, if you buy land, if there's fucking water under it, it's yours. Whatever's under it is yours. Colorado, you can't just tap into a fucking water supply.

Really? Because that could be somebody's irrigation line and you'll get in trouble for that shit. So Colorado, water rights are a big deal. Just because water goes through your property doesn't mean it belongs to you. Yes, it's a different fucking thing. I don't know how it is now, but Hunter Thompson complained endlessly about this because he wanted to buy this property, but it didn't come with water rights. So he's like, how the fuck am I going to get water? What the fuck is a property without water?

This is ridiculous. Anyway, he's going. Can you even drill a well on your property i don't think you're allowed to because it's somebody else's water because the people that water comes through to irrigate and shit to these ranches it's all very complicated so uh now a lot of these a lot of the cities basically would now let their sorry farmers let their land die off because they sell their water to the cities. Oh my God. They can literally make more money just selling their irrigated water

than they can running their entire ranch. That's fucked up. Isn't that fucked up? It's so hard to make a living doing that with the large ranches and the large, what are you going to do? Sell cattle to who? There's fucking huge corporate conglomerates

you're competing with or farming or any of that shit. So you can sell water and that makes any of that shit so it's it's you shouldn't sell water and that makes you more money so that's what they started doing so a lot of these ranches are just let to die farmers just make their money selling the water and that's it to denver and grand junction and colorado springs and places like that that's not it's fucking crazy and even down to new mexico and even here because we get colorado river shit too even so and the water in like manitou springs because they have natural springs yeah and uh the water is it's disgusting james it's like uh i don't know how to it tastes like it has baking soda it has like a sting when

you put it in your mouth the water's gross here too yeah water's gross that's just bleached yeah it's super chlorinated and the weird thing it smells like sulfur here yeah like in new york the strange thing is new york city has great water yeah which you would not expect you expect it to be disgusting it's like actually better when they do taste tests it beats bottled water every time it's the weirdest fucking thing in the world we can't figure yeah you'd never know and then you look at a place that's beautiful like colorado and you go wow this is the water's probably so clean and it smells like eggs i'll bet i'll bet you uh i'll bet you corona our uh cores probably had something to do with it because

they i mean obviously they need a shitload of water oh i'm sure that they ruined it they're well that's by denver they're in golden so i'm that's probably part of the whole guarantee part of the whole thing here but a lot of these ranches were drying up and then while denver's getting huge so 2015 comes around jake is you know like i said 29 may 20th 2015 nobody's seen jake for a few days he's been gone about four or five days nobody's seen him his friends haven't seen him nobody's talked to him a weird thing for jake well jake go what's going on here so finally finally, a couple of his friends, Nate Lopez and Randy Martinez, drive out to the ranch to see where the fuck he is. Where the fuck did he go? So how many places could he be, really?

He's not at the Alamo. And he says he must be at the ranch or at the gym. There's dirt bikes here. That's it. So apparently they turned into the driveway. They get in here. And this is, I'll show a picture i'll post of the front of this ranch but it's a lot of uh a lot of like heads and antlers and all that sort of shit yeah because it's a hunting log a hunting camp yeah so all right yeah that's look what i

shot right so they don't jake's not around they can't find jake but they do see his truck is there uh he's got a bunch of motorcycles they're all there his dog is there elmo is hanging out cute cute so um now they look around the ranch it's a big place and they're trying to they're jake jake because they see all the shits there so they think he might be home uh finally they find deb like deb yeah frail and everything else is out in the uh horse corral doing work. That's what she does. Yeah, it was wild.

They were like, couldn't believe that she was doing shit. And Deb tells them that Jake went to Reno, which isn't, I don't know if you want to go to Reno. It's a ways out, but. It is. Apparently, there's a mixed martial arts gym there. He's been MMA fighting, training at a gym lately. And she says that there's a gym lately and he she says that there's a gym that because it's around here though so i don't know what the level of

training is so i guess in reno there was a gym that's like a better gym that he wanted to go drive through utah train at that sounds like a nightmare that sounds like a nightmare long ride man yeah and then they said well he hasn't been responding to texts for five days and she said good reason for that is goddamn irrigation ditch over there. Just imagine her saying it to her little voice. Apparently, she he dropped it in the irrigation ditch when he was doing something with the horses. And she said, it's in the kitchen and a bag of rice drying out right now.

He said, hopefully it'll work when I get back so I don't have to buy another fucking phone for a thousand dollars. So literally, they were like, oh, shit, that sucks. i don't have to buy another fucking phone for a thousand dollars so literally and they were like oh shit that sucks apple care god damn it yeah that's what it was so and then we've all done that oh i i jumped in a pool yeah about six years ago with my phone in my pocket second i my feet hit the bottom of pool i said god damn mother hip is so heavy i know what that is i got out put it in rice and then you wait for like two days and you're just don't touch it don't know about fucking somewhere you're just just stand over it with your hands out going come on fucker dry out i'm moving it around making sure it's all

covered in it and everything just like that'll make a difference it never worked again of course it died it's dead so there's a salt water pool i don't think that helps i don't think salt water is good for electronic components, probably. I mean, if you pour coffee on something, sometimes you can dry it out and it'll work again. But if you put cream and sugar in there, it's fucked. It'll fucking melt. The sugar melts to the fucking circuitry and it's over. Then it's over.

Yeah, you don't want to have like a Starbucks and pour it in there. That wouldn't be the thing to do. You don't want to pour your Frappuccino. That's probably bad. Black coffee, sometimes it comes i mean not always but yeah sometimes it's fine who knows i found that out from a computer because i poured it on a laptop on accident oh man when i called for help he goes do you how do you have your coffee with cream and sugar i was like fucking yeah and he goes oh that's trash yeah you're you're in deep shit that's gonna be stuck and all fucked up. That's never happening. Yeah, I dropped a soda on my keyboard like six months ago, the editing keyboard.

I spilled it, just covered it, and I'm like, motherfucker. Son of a bitch. Now I had to get a new keyboard. I had to get a new keyboard. It was like in 10 minutes, like you'd press a button and it would just stay down completely. You could just press them all down. It was not good. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

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isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

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Done and done. So anyway, a few days go by, you know, four five days, and they don't hear from him still. So they assume that his fucking phone is not responding to the rice, probably. So his friends call the ranch, and they stop by the ranch. They want to hang out, and they can't get a hold of him any other way. So they don't know what else to do. So Deb said, he's still not back yet. I don't know when he's coming back because his fucking phone is inside.

So he hasn't called me. He's 29 years old. I don't know. I not gonna training session yeah i don't know well i'm not i don't know you know i don't keep track of my 29 year old son and tell him you know what time are you coming home right when he comes home he comes home i don't know what to tell you in the meantime she's doing the branch work so yeah and they said too that she seemed annoyed with them to be back like did i fucking tell you i'll tell him to get a hold of you when he gets back leave me the fuck alone he has shit to do yeah she's just not into it so um yeah about a week later a few days later but a little over a week's gone by and a gunnison county uh police officer here named mark michael he someone tells him uh about jake he's just here's

in town that jake hasn't been around for a while and he knows jake too he's known him uh about jake he's just here's in town that jake hasn't been around for a while and he knows jake too he's known him so he said no that's weird so he calls the ranch kind of half curious and half sort of half-hearted not really police work because he's not a missing person he's a fucking adult right but just as a curious thing uh he calls the ranch and deb talks to this officer and says that her son had taken off with a friend i don't know who the hell it was the fuck do i know i'm an old lady in a ranch right i don't care uh she told him they she told them they told her that they were headed to reno to go camping and to stop at this gym and then go camping for a while uh they said that you know sometimes he

did this he'd take off to go camping or take off to go do something. Why not? I don't know. Not really my problem. Find him because my back hurts. Yeah. So the police officer marks the case status as unfounded. Basically, there's no need to even file anything.

It's just a young guy went for a fucking camping trip and his friends are being paranoid about it. But Jake's friends keep thinking there's something wrong something wrong they keep going back to this police officer saying i'm telling you you got to look further into it he's like the guy's fucking mother told me he went camping what do you want from me you know people are allowed to camp it's free country so uh again but the finally after a week of them doing this the cop finally says all right i'll fucking call again. Maybe he's home now. I don't know. So this time he talks to Deb and they, you know, they talk on the phone for a while and she says the same thing.

He's run away. He went camping. And she says he says the ask her, was there anything that might have precipitated that? Did he have a problem with a girlfriend that he make him run off or, you know, whatever, you know, people are. Fuck this. I need a few days. People take off. And Deb said the only thing she could think of is that they had been arguing about, you know, household shit.

He and he and Deb. But she's like, but, you know, that happens sometimes. But other than that, nothing really is going on. And they said, what were you arguing about? And she said, well, you know, it's just hard because he's an adult. So two adults living at home in the same place. And butt heads which makes sense and i'm his mother exactly so uh now she told them uh you know like i said she had told the friends that she went on went he went to an mma gym and uh so one of his friends said quote i know a bunch of guys in the mma gym

from uh from denver that he goes to or from another place that he goes to. Somewhere in Colorado. Somewhere in Colorado. And so the mother basically told one of the friends she thinks it was one of those guys he took off with, one of the MMA guys. So this guy, his friend says, I know a bunch of these guys. And he called them and said, is Jake with you guys? And they said, no, we're all in Denver.

So no, not at all. We haven't seen Jake or heard from him. So yeah, the mother said that he grabbed some camping equipment, a gun, some cash, and grabbed a rifle and jumped in the car with some guy and took off to Reno. That was it. She said after that, if he doesn't come back, maybe he's in Nevada looking for work. Maybe he went to California with his friends. Maybe he went to see his dad in New Mexico. I don't fucking know. Grown man. Maybe he went to Cupertino to get he went to see his dad in New Mexico.

I don't fucking know. Grown man. Maybe he went to Cupertino to get a new phone. That's what I mean. No idea. He might have went right to the source. We have no fucking idea. He said, no, I'm not going to the store.

I need to talk to somebody higher up about this purchase. So now once his friends start hearing about this, they actually start kind of feeling good for him. They think maybe he moved to California. Maybe he did take off because he had talked about that sometimes. I'd like, you know, half of his brain told him, maybe I should just get the fuck out of here away from all these fucking people, my family, all this shit, and just go to California and hang out and, you know, get a job out there and whatever. Just do that. So they said, maybe he did it. Maybe he's's fucking gone maybe he just couldn't take it anymore you know but then i thought why the fuck would he want to leave yeah you know he seems to have he's going to

inherit this ranch well then they kind of talk about a little about maybe why here um the ranch wasn't doing very well uh one of his friends described it as quote kind of a junkyard it had a lot of old shit from from rudy and that his mom had uh had piled up a lot of garbage jake lived in the lodge part and this is a building that it's like a big lodge where people a huge gathering where you could have big tables and like a not a lot of walls yeah like a big end of you know hunt you know banquet or something you do there. And now, though, they put so much shit in there, Western shit. In this article in The Atlantic, they talk about it. Stuffed rattlesnakes, old bits and bridles, ancient guns, antique machines that were broken for 40 years.

So much shit in a giant lodge that Jake barely had room for his bed in there. Oh, no. So, I mean, he was hoarding in his house. They're hoarding in his house. Yeah. And one of his friends said secretly sometimes he would take a bunch of shit to town and go like dumpster hunting and just go fucking fill his truck up, go to town and just go from a few dumpsters and apartment complexes and just drop it in there just to try to get rid of some of it to make some room. But he said there would be more shit in there. His mom would put more crap in there. She saw a nook.

Yeah. Oh, look, there's room in the corner now. Oh, no. Jesus Christ. So Jake apparently asked one of his friends to help him brand calves before. Sounds like not a job I want to do here. Seems like they would try to run from that. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You got to hold on tight. Well, they said typically said typically apparently a calf is herded into a mechanical chute right where a clamp closes around him so he can't move and then it flips them on their side and then they they you know jamming brand them that's what they do but they don't have that at the 7-eleven ranch so basically it was you know wrestling calves yeah you have to fucking wrestle a cab snag them with a rope wrestle them to the ground and hold them down while they're branded which is horrible yeah that sounds fucking imagine the bruises and you'd be fucked up after that not to mention the cattle the cow right then you gotta let that thing go while it's got that brand new

and it's angry at you oh jesus They said they needed maintenance on the corral. You know, they said that. But it never could. Jay could never get around to fixing the things that needed fixing because it was just so much maintenance that he needed to keep up on. He never had a chance to start a project or anything. They said one of his friends said, because the fences need fixing, the truck needs fixing, and we've got to brand all these cows now. He was like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? So, yeah, the family, they couldn't do this anymore.

It became untenable for them to have cattle and all this shit. So they ended up selling a bunch of other livestock off, and they stopped the hunting trips at the ranch, too. Seems like a cash cow. Yeah, that became that was became a problem so after that money became what him and deb fought about constantly um because jake didn't get a check or anything for this he didn't get like he wasn't an hourly employee he's just doing this he's just doing ranch work out of the hope of getting something out of this place when it's done yeah he's living there and doing it because it's his family's place that's not like he's this

is a business where he you know he's cutting a check every week so you know it's one of those things he's just supposed to inherit it eventually here um even if he had to go into town just to hang out at the alamo there he'd have to ask deb for money oh my god so i mean the guy works 12 hours a day and breaks his balls he doesn't have any cash in his pocket has nothing so yeah that's why they thought i could see him running away here he would try to scrounge up money in other ways they said he would cut up and sell firewood around town just any ways to hustle uh he worked a little bit for a landscaping company when on the weekends and shit uh he came he uh came up with a scheme as they called it to uh grow weed and sell it to

all the college kids there i'll grow weed and sell it to the the college kids there. I'll grow weed and sell it to the college kids. But the problem was he would smoke the weed instead because, you know, if you smoke a lot of weed, it's not a great thing to sell a lot of weed. Probably. You got to sell a shitload of weed. Yeah. You smoke a lot of weed. That's the thing.

You got to really sell a lot. He also cultivated psychedelic mushrooms, which is awesome. He had some psilocybin fucking mushrooms growing on his goddamn. That's the thing. You got to really sell a lot. He also cultivated psychedelic mushrooms, which is awesome. He had some psilocybin fucking mushrooms growing on his goddamn. That's awesome. So this guy's, yeah, to sell to the college kids, which is great. Keep those away from mom. Yeah. So if you went to Western Colorado University for a few years and ate mushrooms, they're

probably from this guy. That's pretty cool. And he also wanted to start a chimney sweeping business which is a strange thing to start in the 20s in the 21st century it's a very odd thing to start you know it's like anybody you know what people need in these days shoe cobbling that's what they're looking for that's what they're looking for out there shoe cobbling i'm always blown away at the airport when i see a fucking shoe polish guy i'm'm like, they got really sweet fists. He's always working, too. He's always going.

The guy has fists. That's why. That's crazy. Every airport has them, and the chairs are always full. So people must want their... I think they're just so... They're there for four hours, and they're like, might as well get my shoes shined, I think it's just amazing that people fly in shoes that need to be polished.

Can you imagine that? It feels awful. Whenever we're on a plane, and there's some fucking dude in a suit next to me that clearly like has to go when he lands to like a business meeting and all that. I just want to laugh at him the whole time I'm there because I'm like, I am going to fuck off, smoke some weed and then hang out with my best friend and make dick jokes in front of a thousand people. And isn't that great? And I'm an Under Armour sweatpants. And we're both sitting next to each other and isn't that great and i'm an under armor sweatpants and we're both sitting next to each other isn't that hilarious if this flight attendant's hot you're about to

see that i like her no because of my pants it's like what am i gonna do to her jesus jimmy this guy's wearing a fucking suit i thought you meant i was gonna like assault her so i was like jesus christ jimmy i'm a nice guy i just mean yeah yeah the under armor you're gonna see the outline of my cock more of an adidas guy anyway but i get what you're saying and this guy's got his fucking brooks brothers oh that's awesome unreal so uh yeah this all goes on one summer finally jake ended up working on a commercial fishing boat in alaska you know like the deadliest catch type shit he goes up there they make good money for a couple of months he came home with fifteen thousand dollars that he made and uh he ended up having to give it all to deb though to keep the

ranch going so they were in debt and they needed a bunch of shit fixed and so it ended up all going to the ranch his friend uh aunt there said quote he was always pretty pissed off about that which is understandable um so uh now he he should have just fucking left he should have just went and whatever but he kept staying there but like i said he wanted to leave but he wanted to stay it was one of those things because he said too if he could get this ranch that's a big deal if he could get a 700 acre ranch he could make it how he wants it without his mom and all sell some of it and have some money yeah do that restart the hunting things you can do anything you want there so uh but apparently him and his mother his mother would break his balls a lot basically tell her that uh

you know it's not doing as well as it what did under rudy and it's your fault and all that well he ran it for 50 years so he might know how to he knew how to do it better plus he's a fucking crawls through rice paddies with a straw. You know what I mean? What do you expect from me? Rudy's a goddamn hero. You homeschooled me. Whatever I'm lacking is your fault, Deb. Sorry.

This is absolutely on you, Deb. This is on you. If I'm not great at my accounting or something, well, I guess we taught math class. Consider the source, sugar. Yeah. So it wasn't going well. Like I said, a lot of these ranches aren't doing well around this time, so this is pretty normal. She complained, though, that he was lazy and he would sleep too late and, you know, all that sort of shit.

He's just a little bit of a stoner and he's left jobs unfinished. And he's tired. And he's tired. One of his friends said, whenever you were out there, they'd be at each other's throats. Now, his sister, on the other hand, is his real ne nemesis his sister is his nemesis here stephanie apparently uh steph here uh steph moved back in 2012 to this area she'd been living in denver like i said her stepfather there put 30 grand down yeah they bought a 74 000 two-bedroom house in denver with 30 000 of that coming from Rudy.

By the way, I just found out. I didn't see this before. Rudy's first name is Marion. So they call him Rudy because his last name is Rudiger. Okay. Or Rudabaw. My bad. So anyway, she, Steph, ends up coming back to the ranch.

She earns a little bit of money here and there taking tourists on horseback rides and shit like that. They have a son. She's got a husband and they have a son. And she wanted to bring her son here to raise him here like she was raised. She thought it was fun. It's the mountains. It's a different lifestyle than living in the city. It ain't Denver.

Yeah, exactly. She described herself as not good with backhoe things but a horse woman and a country girl so she's not good at like digging trenches or anything but she knows how to work horses really well and she's a country girl self-described but growing up she wasn't the one who had to do the digging that would be her brother and of course that sort of deal there so uh they never got along steph and jake which is amazing it's very strange um he steph ended up uh texting her friend at one point quote yes he's mellow talking about jake she's complaining about jake all the time and her friends are like he seems pretty mellow to me and she said quote yes he's

mellow with friends but with family he's a complete dick most of the time so they're saying basically that jake is two different people when he's home he's a fucking asshole to everybody that's what his mother says and his sister says but when he's out with his friends he's a easy laid back easygoing guy well maybe he's tired because it feels like you two are living in the fucking lap of luxury while he's doing all the hard shit that's the other thing yeah so that's i would say that so he ends up with Steph moved back. Like I said, 2012, she rented her home in Denver and did this. So once they're there, she did say, though, she she moved there. She told one of her friends that she doesn't want her son, Alan, a L.U.N., by the way.

And we'll talk about why that is. Doesn't want Alan going to school here in Denver. Kids are fucked up. And, well, I'm totally sick of Denver. She told one of her friends in an email. So they basically, Steph and Jake had worked out the only way they could to get along together. And that was to try to not ever see or talk to each other. That's their way.

Hey, this is going to work out just fine as long as we never look at each other. Can we do that? Is that possible? You got 711 acres. Get lost. Yeah. Fucking go. Ride horses horses all you want i'll be this over here matter of fact i'm gonna get a lion maybe that's why rudy had the lion to keep deb a fuck away from him deb leave me alone i'm gonna i swear to christ i'll buy a fucking lion and train it to hate you what are you allergic to cats let me get the biggest fucking cat you've ever seen giant so uh yeah they don't do anything like that now the problem is that uh uh dave who is steph's

husband by the way dave's last name is jackson so the son's name is alan jackson you got it you've got to be fucking me alan jackson so fuck you are you serious no that isn't why they don't tell you it's part of it probably but it's he's named after somebody which was another point of contention as we'll talk about so things here uh her husband dave uh and and jake were total opposites they said dave's real cocky and real kind of outgoing kind of a guy. And Jake is more reserved. Basically, Jake hated everything about Dave. Couldn't fucking stand him. Even hated his car. You know you hate someone when you see their car and you're like,

fucking son of a bitch. Fuck this guy. Fucking piece of shit. I love... You know? You ever hate someone like that? Hell yeah. Isn't that great?

What kind of car is it? It's a Ford station wagon wagon a white ford station wagon with flames painted on it get out of my life only a complete asshole why would he do that would have a white station wagon and paint flames on it and he had that shit in denver yeah that wasn't made fun of i'm sure maybe that's why they moved away from denver people they chased him out of the neighborhood everybody took it out on your fucking stupid named kid because your husband's got a fucking dumb car he's being fined by the hoa for having it parked in the neighborhood that was the problem there fucking caprice out of here get the fuck out of here so yeah so they're constantly fighting these two they're constantly

beefing back and forth and and like that jake's friends also said that jake was kind of scared of dave a little bit not like he was perfectly willing to fight him and all that sort of thing but he said that dave was kind of unpredictable and potentially violent so he didn't know where the line was with dave where it went from an argument to you know that sort of thing here that drives that kind of car yeah and like he said like he would make jokes jake like i keep my gun by my bed just in case that assholes you know you yeah and like he said like he would make jokes jake like i keep my gun by my bed just in case that assholes you know you never know if he snaps one night and they joke around like that so at that point like we said jake was training doing some jujitsu

and doing some like mma fighting for exercise though he wasn't trying to he wasn't one of those guys it's like i'm gonna fucking get in the octagon at 29. Right. That wasn't his goal. He was always a little chubby, and he wanted to lose weight, basically. He just wants to wear a 34 again. Yeah, that's all. That's all it is. So he was doing that. It's in Gunnison.

I said, I don't know what the level of jujitsu training is in Gunnison, Colorado. It doesn't sound like a place where the Gracies have a gym. No, probably not. It's just some cowboy there. Let me teach you some things, boy. Cowboy rear naked choke is a bit scary. If the calf tries to make a break, this is what you do. Oh, you want to know how to fight people?

Shit, this is a calf jujitsu class. This will teach you how to wrestle a calf to the ground to brand them. See, in case you ain't got no equipment. That's where you learned it. That's how you get a gelding in an arm bar. Oh, that's how you do it. Get them in an arm bar. That'll make them tap out now. You won't see it, but you'll see that little hoof going. That's where he learned it. That's how you get a gelding in an arm bar. Oh, that's how you do it. You get him in an arm bar. That'll make him tap out now.

You won't see it, but you'll see that little hoof going. That's a tap out. That means you can let up a little bit and go ahead and brand him. He's giving in. It's all right. So he's there. He says that he liked the jujitsu thing because it was good for his temperament. It was slower.

It was nice there's no not a lot of striking this gym is mostly just grappling okay so he liked that um one of his friends said there's no striking it's all about distance management leverage control it's like playing chess with the human body right so that's what the one of his uh the instructor there so they said jake was always kind of chubby and always uncomfortable about it. So the jujitsu, he dropped a bunch of weight and he started getting into being healthy and feeling better about himself.

Had a couple of ugly ears. Yeah. Had to do it. Hey, you know what? We all have. So he, he,

this went into everything in his life. Like he started trying to really be like healthy. They say his friend said that he would be on this diet, and if one of his friends got McDonald's or something, he'd fucking bitch at him for it. Oh, my God. He's like, guys, that's not good for you, man. You shouldn't be eating that. Don't be that guy, Jake.

Come on, Jake. Leave me alone. Shut up, Jake. You ever had a quarter pounder with cheese? It's delicious. Enjoy your cucumber. It's absolutely delicious. Shut the fuck up.

He would chug at least a gallon of water a day do all of that he had a uh you know he thought hydration was the secret yeah to everything and even on the ranch too he would try to clean it up even if his mother would bitch at him he would didn't care he'd bring shit into town like i said tossing it in dumpsters and all this type of shit but the beef keeps going and going one of the things they're beefing about, him and his sister, is the son's name. Okay. Why does Jake care? Well, apart from he has to call him Alan. The son's name, A-L-U-N, Alan.

They named him in honor of Jake's best friend, Alan Howells, who was a soldier who was 20 years old when he was killed in Baghdad in combat. So this was when Stephanie was pregnant. So Alan was named in honor of this guy. Jake's friend. Jake's friend. You didn't know him, lady. Exactly. One of his friends said, quote, Jake thought Steph had hijacked Alan's name.

Alan was his friend, not Steph's. Really? Yeah. He was pissed about it. Legitimately not even her friend. No, it was his friend, not Steph's. Really? Yeah. He was pissed about it. Legitimately not even her friend. No, it was his friend. Fucking unbelievable. His best friend.

So he was like, these two don't even like each other, and it's his best friend. She's going to fucking act like she's so broken up, and that was what it was. So they were fighting about that. Also, Dave, apparently, this is a great quote here. This is from a guy who worked on the ranch occasionally just to try to, he had bought one of Jake's bikes from him, and he would do work to pay it off that was the trade-off that they made so uh this guy said quote jake didn't like the thought that his sister had married a carny apparently dave was a carny at one point so yeah you've ever known a carny

you don't want your sister no marrying a fucking carny ever and is dave uh alan's dad is that like his real dad that's his dad steph and dave have been married for over 10 years wild yeah it's crazy so yeah and she bastardized his friend's name and she took his friend's name and uh yeah and the kid it's not the kid's fucking fault the poor kid is she's just a kid he has no control over his name who his parents are nothing like that he's just a child so she bastardized a dude's name that died in iraq and then gave him the last name that makes it something entirely different yep you bitch it's a weird thing it's super fucking weird man you named my my neph what if he hates alan jackson too you know and then you robbed my best friend's name and I fucking hate that guy's music. Music sucks.

Now I fucking hate my nephew. And I don't think he likes Alan Jackson, Jake, either. Based on some information I get later, he just doesn't seem like an Alan Jackson guy to me. So apparently Stephanie complained to people that he can't. She wasn't even she couldn't even say hello to Jake. It would be a fight. They'd get in a big fight. Her mother told police when they were looking for him they were asking

questions he said she said quote he hated her she hated him that's that um so uh dave jackson the father or the father alan's father or steph's husband told police quote he always pissed me off hated they always got in a fight said quote, quote, all my stuff was scattered. He said that Jake would throw his tools and shit on the ground. He said at one point he dumped all his tools on the ground and sold his toolbox. That's awesome. Out from under Dave. So Dave said, quote, all my stuff was scattered to be trampled on by cows and such.

So these are all little things, really. But when you live with people, these things just oh they fester that's a lot well and you know what if you'd pour all my tools out and sell my toolbox that's where they fucking go yeah you know what i mean that's what i mean so just pour them on the ground even like put them on a shelf we don't know if that's true or not what dave did to him to deserve that, too. We have no idea. Apparently, one day, though, Jake plowed snow. There was snow a lot. So he plowed the snow into huge banks that blocked in Dave's car, which is hilarious to me. That's funny.

That's fucking great, right? Drive that piece of shit through. Fuck this car, yeah. Good luck, fucker. There you go. You won't embarrass us in town anymore with your painted fucking flames, you douche. I was trying to hide it from the neighbors. Yeah.

I picture him doing it with a fucking wall roller, too, putting the paint on it. He taped it out, and then he's just like, fuck it, got a roller. There we go. Perfectly done. I wish I could have been there when Jake blocked it in, just smiling. You could picture him behind the plow just going, this is going to be good. Apparently, they got in a big argument over this, and Dave took off his jacket to fight, and he had a gun on under his jacket.

So Dave claims that he was not going to use the gun. He was planning to take that off, too, to fight, because they were going to fist fight, basically. He just had it on because he was walking around the ranch. to fight because they were going to fist fight basically he just had it on because he was walking around the ranch so uh that afternoon though jake has had enough and he files an order of protection against his brother-in-law so the guy lives in your house that's the problem because if it went into effect dave would have been banned from the ranch which would have caused even more fucking turmoil with the sister and the mother so they're all up his ass so finally he withdraws the complaint a couple days later to save everybody the trouble but obviously that they were you know always fighting

the mother said they couldn't be they couldn't be there at the same time that's when it's out of control it was out of control well they're gonna have fistfights outside it's ridiculous now stephanie is really uh really pissed off because it's at this point that they end up having to move to an apartment in town because deb says you guys can't be here at the same time right sorry he does all the work around the house so he's got to stay here you guys got to go somewhere so now they own a house but that's in denver so they have to rent an apartment in gunnison and she wrote on a website called moms.com she complained i take it this is a place where moms go to complain about things to other moms called moms.com. Oh, boy. Jesus. She complained.

I take it this is a place where moms go to complain about things to other moms. Sounds like next door for moms. Yeah, because this has nothing to do with children. Not like, you know, hey, my son ingested

some cleaning product. Should I take him to the hospital? Nothing like that. Quote, my younger brother is trying to ruin my life. Dear moms. Dear moms. how can i make my mom see oh maybe it's about your mom oh maybe how can i make my mom see that it's unhealthy for him to be there controlling her and her property like she owns like he owns it i don't know why you're

posting this here we're just trying to fuck moms we're trying just a bunch of dudes like you got pics question mark of you or your mom i don't care me my mom or jake all you i don't know well never mind jake but you and your mom maybe you got babies too let's have a let's see that ass got to pick together maybe you have a fantasy thing going on here here to fuck moms here to fuck moms you have the wrong website oh shit so the following year though 2015 what we were all talking about may 20th is when he he's been missing a few days uh steph messaged a friend on may 13th and saying quote my mom might be kicking my brother out soon they said and then a few days after that she posted on facebook

quote have you ever been woken up with such awesome news you wanted to run outside screaming? And a friend replied, No more Jake? And she commented, Apparently Reno. Long story. Tell you soon. So she's like, Oh, my fucking, my brother's leaving. So, yeah. So now Jake and Jake's friends here,

they're meeting with the sheriff's office again here. The the Molly, his one friend called Jake's dad, who's still alive in New Mexico, and said, is he with you? Because they thought maybe he's with his dad. I mean, that's a possibility. So they said, no. He said, I haven't heard from him in weeks. This is June 2015. So a month has gone by.

He says, why don't you file a missing or person person report up there i'm in new mexico it'd be hard for me to do it so yeah but the officer the michael guy said he didn't think it was necessary he said look i talked to the mother everything is checked out so far i don't know what to tell you the kid fucking took off i know you're good friends with him and you expect him to like whatever but maybe he didn't feel like talking to you at some point. You know, like people ditch people. And if he wanted to ghost you, that's his fucking prerogative. You should really stop harassing his family and fucking leave it alone, basically.

But eventually, through a bunch of rumors in town, just people talking about it all the time, the sheriff's office was kind of forced to reopen it. about it all the time the sheriff's office was kind of forced to reopen it and they did and they ended up telling law enforcement in reno hey you know if you run across this guy you know let us know basically or you know have him tell him to call home whatever the fuck so uh the art our aunt guy here he fought said he tried to file a missing persons report and he said the sheriff's department kept quote kept saying the family doesn't want it so what are you going to do there um yeah they said that uh several of people were told like they were told by family members they were told by the police that only family members could follow reports could file reports no according to colorado law quote any person with relevant credible information suggesting a person is missing may make a missing person's report to

law enforcement. That makes sense. Yeah. That's just, they were, the sheriff was just kind of blowing them off, is what it sounds like. Now, they talk to Deb a little more, just because they have to. And Deb told, finally tells the cops, look, my son uses drugs. I didn't want to tell you that earlier. But he smokes marijuana.

He started using steroids recently when he's trying to get in shape. He's been working out at this gym, and she said he's kind of been hanging out with the wrong crowd down at this gym, and they've gotten him into steroids. He was growing those mushrooms. Yeah. You know those silly mushrooms make you see things. And also has been dabbling in cocaine recently as well since he's been hanging out with these people doing steroids and shit. So, I mean, this is the story she's given to the cops that he's hanging hanging out with these people doing steroids and shit so i mean this is the story she's given to the cops that he's hanging out with some shady people he's all roided out and drugged up you have no idea who the fuck knows where he could be he could just

be posing on a beach in california somewhere just no idea where he is screaming at people coked up on mushrooms and steroids holy shit with that with jujitsu training that's a dangerous man does she say he's doing coke she said he's doing coke too now boy she said she's found white powder before and it's ever since he's been hanging out with these guys it's been steroids and before he's smoking that wacky weed that's all good you know even up here with the old folks that that wacky tobacco ain't no problem she was taking bong ruffle she was telling the cops yeah now i've seen him doing drugs let me tell you about this hold on a minute oh boy that one got me good so uh she also tells police that her son when he left had stolen one of her books titled quote how to How to Disappear Without Leaving a Trace as well.

So, yeah, she said he also stole some other stuff and shit like that. But he stole that book. She said that as well, he used to physically and verbally abuse her. That she said. She said he'd physically abuse me and verbally threaten me. She told the investigators that he used her, quote, like a crash test dummy with his mixed martial arts training thing. So he's doing rear naked chokes on his 68 year old Fred frail mother. This tiny old woman is going to fuck. She told the police, quote, he would hold me and sit on me and stuff.

Oh, Lord. Holy Jesus. That is fucking terrible, man. Jake's a dick. From what she says, it's his mom saying that, for Christ's sake. Your mother says that. So then his friend Nate Lopez said he spent a lot of time talking to local law enforcement,

and they just told me that the only people they can really believe is the family. They said if they say that Jake went on a trip and they're the last people to see him, that's what we have to go on until there's any evidence of anything else. So Jake's friends, though, they keep fucking doing it. They keep going at it.

Steph, finally, the sister, messages one of Jake's friends and says, quote, Do you have any idea who keeps reporting Jake missing? So every time someone reports a missing, the cops have to come to the house and make sure he's not there. So that's they're starting to get annoyed. The family, she says, quote, I would really like it if they would just call mom instead so you know you want to know where he is call my mother basically but they would also uh so they started doing that so they started basically all of his friends started calling every day so then his mom got mad and told the sheriff to tell them to stop doing it so now the sheriff's telling the friends just fucking stop stop filing reports stop doing anything so weeks go by more weeks his friends nothing they get nothing out of him they don't feel shit uh stephanie and dave move out of their

apartment they come back to the 7-eleven ranch and they're you know just going on with their business that's that's that um you know and his friends are pissed off because this article in the atlantic they talk about this his one friend aunt there said you know i feel his friends are pissed off because of this article in the Atlantic. They talk about this. His one friend there said, you know, I feel like if it was the sheriff's son, he might have looked a little harder. Probably true. You know, whatever. But finally, they said that they needed to look for the kid for Jake themselves.

They said, we can't depend on the cops. We can't depend on any of these fucking people. We're going to find him. Oh, boy. Which good luck. You know what I mean? Bunch of Gunnison Hicks. Yeah, we're going to find him. Hold on. I you know what i mean bunch of gunnison hicks yeah we're gonna find him hold on i gotta work till six at the lumber yard but i mean at the same time

that's got to be really frustrating if you feel like something is wrong and you you know and you're doing this these are good friends these are good they actually give a shit about nobody i don't know six people that would give a fuck if i maybe like i don't know he left a long time ago i forgot he existed even my girlfriend would be like two days without a call. He must have ghosted me. Fuck him. Yeah, that's what I mean. Totally right.

These are good friends. You know, so one guy, the ant guy was in a hardware store parking lot when he saw something. He saw Jake's motorcycle there. It's a 1976 Harley Sportster. there it's a 1976 harley sportster by this time though the motorcycle they see it's clearly jake's but it's got a really shitty quickie paint job on it got flames that's is it what with flames and a modified gas tank oh well you don't need to know if there's uh flames on it because dave was riding it oh so there are it is dave riding it and uh his friend ant said quote if jake ever saw dave jackson breathing on his

motorcycle it would have been the end of the world and this guy is riding around on it and why is it all spray painted these shitty different colors right was his friend's quote the tank what's going on what is happening with this so his friends are fucking concerned obviously uh two other friends were looking for used motorcycles shopping when they found two more of Jake's motorcycles for sale in a local shop. Oh, no. And they were like, what the fuck? So they ended up talking to the owner of the shop and obtained the title to one of them. It was a Honda, and it had Jake and Deb's signature on it, signing it over.

Now, the friend said that Jake's looked like a forgery to him. Didn't look like his autograph. No, he said, quote, you could see Deb's signature and you could see Jake's signature underneath it. And it's the same freaking handwriting, he says. So which, I mean, it could have been either one of them doing it. So who knows? So but they said these motorcycles were a big thing of like this thing this is crazy yeah who what is going on why are they selling his stuff but i mean if he took off

and hasn't contacted his family in months and they're short on money well they're gonna start selling off motorcycles i would think at the same time so one day though ant ran into deb at the grocery store which is a quite the confrontation so he starts talking he starts asking her all sorts of questions this guy he says where's jake um and then you know she would say i don't know he'd say well why didn't you file a missing persons report you need to you know need to follow up with the police and get on this shit and she said basically i don't know where he is and i don't want to get in trouble for filing a false report if he ends up just popping back up again well that's not a false report no it's not that's the thing it's i hope my mom's not this carefree when

if i go anywhere you know my mom wouldn't be yeah my mom's italian she'd be crazy are you kidding me she'd be hunting you she'd be hunting people i'm gonna be like he's off on some grand adventure somewhere hope he's having fun no jesus mom i dead. My mom would be under the rice patties with a straw coming out of her mouth. Italian mothers are different. Where is he? She's underwater screaming Jimmy. Yeah, it's a different, way different thing. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.

Sorry. Scaring poor Vietnamese people out of their property oh god so uh finally three months after he was last seen so this is may to june july finally deb officially reports him missing he she says in the report that his interest in mma brought him into contact with a bad crowd and that uh she told investigators i figure he got in over his head with something and is either in witness protection or in hiding or dead what holy shit it's really going far my god sim rock's not that dangerous fuck me yeah he's you know it's just a nickname it's just marketing sweetheart babe just marketing come on so uh ant ends up creating a facebook page i'd love to see our

some of our crimes there's so you looked at me like what oh yeah it's new oh yeah uh called quote where is jake millison it's fair uh he posted photos of him uh you know jake in a bunch of different settings and asked people to share any information that might be useful or anything like that. Someone reports on the site that they saw Deb, Steph, and Dave all burning Jake's mattress days after he disappeared. Oh, my God. That's their claim on this Facebook page, which, I mean, we all have Facebook. Claims on Facebook are about as valid as a homeless man screaming it into the night. You know what I mean? It's pretty much the same thing.

That's how you should look at Facebook. People look at shit different. And I know this because you've got trouble arguing with your family on there about shit and stuff like that. I don't have a family anymore, James. That's on Facebook. That's what I've come to. I've gotten rid of all of it. I've done it too with people.

And it's some people too that I do it because if it's someone like I'm related to or something, I do it because I don't want to hate them. That's why I do it. So it's like if I keep reading your dumb shit, I'm going to hate you. And it's going to be very hard for me to pretend like I like you next time I see you. So instead, I will get rid of you off my thing. And then when I see you, I'll still like you because I'll forget what your fucking crazy views are. It's fine. So that's's fine i can't do it when i i grew up with these women yeah this is just so dumb god damn it they're both so fucking dumb yeah i know i could see it man but yeah this

is fucking crazy though so that's the other part about facebook too is that you have friends that are friends together and now you're gonna start friends of friends the clues that you've got in this guy's disappearance here's my clue well here's my clue and we're all gonna come together publicly about what we think and the sad part is this is their only recourse they have nothing else they can do other than maybe hire private investigators but we don't know if they have money a private investigator to go from state to state and looking for people, that's expensive as fuck. If you're blue-collar people, it's not easy to afford that. In 2015, if they just had the gumption and wherewithal

to start a podcast, they'd be number one. Yeah, where is Jake? Yeah, where is Jake would have been a big podcast. A bunch of Gunnison residents looking for her. There was podcasts back then. Hey, shut up. But honestly, if you have a facebook look at it just like every person is just a crazy the craziest homeless person you've ever seen

screaming into the night that's facebook you know how you ignore what they say that's what you do there same thing oh it's just he's he's clearly mentally ill and screaming at the stars screaming at venus to leave him alone and stop looking at him but then you got to look at it too as like it's probably easier for people in like new york or san francisco or la to be able to dismiss posts like that but people like me who grew up and not in a big city yeah yeah where there's not just random weirdos on a on a train screaming i'm gonna fuck your pussy in your face you know what i mean you're like i'm a dude yeah that's like the subway thing when the guy's yelling at you and i was like so ignore him fucking ignore that's what you do you're like huh and then you were like that's

what the conductor said too yeah that's what you do you just ignore him can't ignore that yeah they yell you like twice if you ignore him they go on to the next person that's how it works he's gonna finger my cunt yeah that's how they do it trying to get your attention and if you just ignore him they're like not his cunt i guess and they move on to the next one against my will that's how it works so uh wild at one point someone else noticed after he disappeared that dave changed his facebook profile picture and in his new picture he was uh set sitting on one of jake's motorcycles oh you did so they said that would have not gone over too big uh all sorts of tips come to the facebook group and anything that

comes in they share with law enforcement as well uh finally though the uh after all of this all these tips all these things coming in pressure from all these people the police officer finally decided quote that this was a serious matter here well yeah um so anyway that winter things were rough on the ranch dave texted his friend that uh during this that with jake gone he has to do everything now so now he's the new jake so good luck ain't it tough dave he said quote i'm sick of being a slave for steph and her mother on this ranch while she's in the lodge warm cozy fucking around on her phone so there's that now you know jake felt so dave threatens to leave yeah this is i'm fucking out of here stephanie takes a gun out and fires a bullet into the floor in front of him and says you ain't going nowhere motherfucker take it easy that's some old-timey ranch shit

right there where are you going pal that's whoa holy shit i guess i'm staying yeah um yeah so it's around this time too that deb's health begins to deteriorate uh she ends up going into the hospital for a collapsed lung and she gets a biopsy revealing she has stage four breast cancer oh no and she is in rough shape and she's withering away because she was very small to begin with. Right. Not good for Deb here at all. So anyway, and his friends over time, because two years go by. So after two years, his friends, nothing's going on.

His friends start moving away. His one friend moves to Texas. Someone else moves to Colorado Springs. It's just like people live their lives. They have to move on. They can't just spend their whole lives looking for someone. So finally, the Sheriff's Department in 2017, two years fucking

later, asked the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for help on the case. You can get the Colorado FBI. You know, just stop by. It's been two years we've been looking, so maybe we want to stop by. So two been two years we've been looking, so maybe we want to stop by. So, yeah. So two years after Jake's disappearance, Ant met with a CBI agent who told them they were making progress.

But Ant said, quote, she said, I can't tell you anything, but things are in the works for you guys. The case was moving along. And it really comes to a head on July 17th, 2017, when basically every single available, every single officer in Gunnison County, including a bunch of and a bunch of Colorado investigators and ambulances and fire trucks and cadaver dogs and every fucking piece of cavalry you can imagine descends on the 7-Eleven ranch. This right first thing in the morning. Oh, no. Holy shit. It's like a does this right. Or first thing in the morning. Oh no. Holy shit. It's like a parade of shit coming down the highway to the house. Uh, yeah.

So ambulances, they have to search 700 acres, which is quite a lot. And even stuff around that too, you know, bordering neighbors properties. And, uh,

so, uh, uh, his friend said, quote, later on that day, there are reports that they found a body and you just know, there's not another reason for a body to be out there. So people start talking about it in town, things like that.

They start hearing all the rumors. Turns out they did find his body. They found his body buried under a seven foot deep pit with a barrel of goat skulls and various dead farm animals on top of him oh no that's how they did it and when sheriff's deputies dug up the pit they found all this stuff as well all these bones barrel full of sheep and goat heads just a barrel of heads yeah who the fuck why do you keep that who keeps a fucking barrel of? I'm sorry. That's twisted. I don't know if that's some rant shit. You're like, well, put it in the head barrel.

Right. We got a head bucket and there's a rot leg. But no, that's right. Front left rear goes in the other bucket. I don't know how it works. They use all the rest of the animal except for its head. I have no idea. But they that's why they found him under a pile of heads.

And at this point they found it was skeletal remains missing an arm as well. Missing an arm. Now, what the fuck could the police excuse possibly be for two years plus worth of shit here? They said that, you know, they dispute. They said that we didn't. It's not that we didn't take his friends concerns seriously they said we are quote we were working pretty hard it just takes a really long time you can't just show up somewhere and search there's a thing called the fourth amendment you know what i mean yeah but you can also show up places and ask all the fucking questions you

want that's it's called a murder investigation or a missing persons investigation know what i mean is that shit is that uh you dumb useless motherfucker yeah it's unlawful search and so yeah you can't go on and rip the property apart without a warrant but you sure can try to build a case toward getting a fucking warrant you just go well can't just go there with no warrant so where do you think warrants come from the fucking warrant fairy delivers them at night no you put together evidence brings it to a judge and they go here's a fucking warrant go look at shit what the fuck are we talking about probable cause holy shit nope i don't know he said uh then he said i mean we only had one investigator for the entire county wow well fuck me maybe you need more yeah what are we doing hire another yeah how many people

do you have going giving tickets out i bet you had more than one person giving tickets out but one not one more than one person fucking investigating i'm so flustered i know jake's got six friends that are pretty good at investigation hire one of them fuck slap a badge on him at this point so they're looking at motives what who could have been what could it have been um they look at steph obviously lifetime of animosity tension over the inheritance of the ranch because she was mad absolutely also constant clashes between deb and him and then of course dave dave's a guy he's a real cocksucker yeah dave's a carny who fucking you know who jake filed a missing who filed a restraining order against so he drives a station

wagon with flames that's enough you know he's an asshole you just you know a human being with a station wagon with flames on it is a asshole. White trash Joe Dirt. That's some Joe Dirt shit right there. Lock it. Paint the flames on this morning. They moved out of Denver because they hated Denver. But I guarantee you, Denver hated them more. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

They knew they didn't fit there. Your car, your kid's named Alan Jackson. Fuck both of you. And Jake had told his friends, by the way, over the course of time, and their friends repeatedly told police this, that, quote, if anything ever happened to me, Dave is the one responsible. So, I mean, didn't matter, though. So then investigators, they questioned Deb, Steph and Dave, obviously separately and many, many times over. Their stories are completely contradictory to each other. Different timelines.

They're all saying how great that person is. but then you can't really trust this one. They're all kind of turning on each other. Everybody says that Jake at one point had been his mother's favorite, but the last few years, everything had shifted. And Deb started complaining to Steph about Jake andake and that steph would like to egg her on about it because she wanted to be the favorite basically so deb told the investigators that steph was insistent that uh that deb evict jake from the place but he was the steph said that he's a freeloader and so the mother said no that's not it at all. But the sister told her without tough love, he's never going to be independent ever at all. Oh, boy.

Not going to happen. She said. Yeah. She said the only way then Deb claimed Deb tells police that Steph told her, quote, the only way he's going to leave here voluntarily is if he's in a body bag. Jesus. That's Jesus Christ is right. That's rough. Jesus Christ is right.

That's rough. So apparently at some point, investigators now find an amended version of Deb's will dated three weeks before Jake vanished in May of 2015. And instead of leaving the ranch to Jake and Shane, the property and everything else she owned goes completely to Steph. Jake had nothing in this will whatsoever. Shane didn't do a goddamn thing for this. Not shit. Yeah. Well, it was a goddamn thing for this. Not shit. Yeah, well, it was his dad's ranch.

That's why. My point is, Shane's not getting anything, and he got cut out. He got cut out, which is bold, because I assume when his dad bought this ranch and owned it for 60 years, he said, my son will run this one day, or my daughter, or somebody, and then they got completely cut out of it. So that sucks, which he should have, in his will, specific that, you know, he should have been more specific. But either way, he probably trusted his wife, I would think, to do the right thing. So in January 2018, still no, nobody's been charged or anything. David Jackson finally decides to implicate his wife here.

Really? He says, quote, this is fucking funny. Honestly, after all this and all of that, I have a strong feeling it could have been Steph. Really, a strong feeling, eh? I really get a hunch it was Steph, but I'm not positive. That literally was next line. Quote, I really get a hunch it was Steph, but I'm not positive. It was the day she fired a shot at me.

I kind of got it that she'll fucking kill somebody. Plus, we all live in the same house and the same property, so if one of us starts murdering people, get a hunch yeah you know what i mean and then they both fail a polygraph test about their involvement and knowledge in the killing as well dave and steph both fail so deb tells investigators that the week jake went missing she had been exhausted from working the night shift at a nursing home deb had done uh she asked jake to take care of an errand and he left it half finished and went into town to fuck off with his friends.

That's what she tells him. She said this was the last straw. Deb says she waited until he fell asleep that night, and she shot him in the head. Deb said that. Deb, the mother. Wow. His fucking 68-year-old cancer--ridden, 75-pound mother. Wow.

Shot him in the head. She said that she disposed of the body on her own. Okay. She told police that she killed him with one bullet from her Smith & Wesson Lady Smith 357 revolver. That's a ranch woman. She has got a special lady version of a 357 revolver. It's got roses or it's pink it's got a pink handle or like a rose carved into it or something but it's a ladysmith it's clearly like a wow it says

ladysmith on it oh yeah yeah she said she did it uh sometime after two that morning and she did it she said she killed him because of his abuse to her doing MMA moves on her and shit. She said, I get up and I take the 357 and I walk upstairs and I stand there a second and ask myself, do you want to live the rest of your life like this? However long or short it would be. And my mind goes, no. And I pulled the trigger. That's his mom. That's cold.

That's mom. That's not. That's mom. Right. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know if we've had this before. We've had mothers killing young kids, but they don't kill their adult children. 30-year-olds?

If they don't kill them by two, they're probably not going to. They generally make it. They make it. Especially with mothers. The mother's going to protect it if they don't do it by two. And if she has another baby, then that two years resets you know what i mean yeah because she keeps having them eventually she's going to kill one that's under oh yeah and all of them that's going it's all gone one that's nine also so the investigators are like okay lady smith that

makes sense uh because the slug by the way they found they they did realize that it's a 357 bullet that killed him probably more than likely um they said how the fuck did you dispose of his body being that you're a tiny frail old woman right and you get it out there she said she managed this is amazing she used she moved the body quote using yankee ingenuity and my knowledge of physics and chemistry and stuff well she built stuff and stuff well i mean chemistry is important in this too physics is important in this chemistry really has nothing to do with nothing at all moving a body at all unless you wanted to dissolve it chemically right that would be chemistry and then physics wouldn't matter no physics and chemistry rarely matter at the same time when you're disposing of

a body put it that way unless you're trying to figure out how much volume fits in a that's true acid and that's neither of those things that's a different thing and uh and stuff yeah and chemistry and stuff so her vast knowledge of the sciences obviously mixed with her quote yankee ingenuity right so i let her figure it out she said she this is her explanation she rolled his body in a plastic sheet then used toe straps and a winch to maneuver it out of the log and onto an atv and she said that steph and dave knew nothing about it she said quote but if if i shot him in self-defense while he was asleep because i was afraid that would what would happen if he woke up again that's not self-defense question mark like how is that not self-defense i was afraid of him and they were like yeah no that's not how that works if someone's

sleeping that's the least threatening they could possibly be they're literally unconscious you're as safe as it gets right now they cannot hurt you from that state so if he sleeps walk sleep walks and comes after you with a butcher knife then we'll talk about it but otherwise he throws some mma on you and you get some bruises call us up and we'll arrest him for it no shit so they figured out what he did the last night he left he was in he went with his friend to crested butte colorado and to see mad max fury road the movie um he uh they asked a couple other friends to join them but people couldn't do it uh one of the guy the guy from the ranch that bought the harley he couldn't afford it and uh after the movie they went to gunnison to play pool at the alamo bar they returned to the ranch he returned to the ranch jake went to bed they checked his phone for the last things he ever did on his phone

right before this happened and he watched daft punk and farrell sing shit they watched videos i mean i don't think he's an alan jackson guy if he's watching deaf punk on here and uh and feral on here with his fucking happy yeah and uh sing uh get lucky they that was the song that was the song he was listening to and a routine by jl covan the comedian really yeah that's what i was like well that's the most pub he's ever gotten good for him hey somebody fucking got killed while they were watching me? Fucking awesome. Finally. I wonder if JL knows that.

I've been doing fucking these impressions for years. Nobody gives two shits about it. I bitch every fucking week that no one cares. And then this fucking guy dies. This is good for me. And I'm just breaking balls. I don't know JL, but he's really funny. He does impressions and these sketches of these impressions.

What was the one? The Louis C.K. Comedy School? Yeah, he was doing a comedy college. It was before Louis got beat up or got caught. It was a joke of a multi-parter of comedy college with different instructors. And he'd do impressions of each instructor. It was really good stuff. About what they do specifically in comedy that's great.

It was amazing. It was funny. It was so good. He was really good at everybody. Now he does the Donald Trump, and he got a bunch of publicity for that. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, that's what he was watching. Good for you, J.L.

That's what I mean. I was like, good for you. How about that? So the last- I wanted to know that. I hope he does. I'm sure if he has a- he seems like he has a Google alert for his name. J.L., the last thing that a man watched before he was murdered was you.

He popped, and I think that's from the Washington Post, too. He probably saw a Google alert, and he was like, Washington Post? What the fuck? And he looked up, and he's like, where the fuck am I in this? Oh. Oh, Jesus. Shit. All right, well, it's still a mention.

It's still cool. Still a mention. But no, good for him. I'm not fucking breaking his balls. Like I said, he's a talented dude. I'm not talking any shit. Comics just like to break comics' balls, even if we don't know them. I really hope it was comedy you.

I do, too. It was around that time. It was great. It was right around that time, too. So the phone was not used after 2.29 a.m. on Saturday, May 16th. So he went out on a Friday night. That's Saturday morning. Now, investigators tell Steph that her mother confessed. By the way, mother confessed and she said quote oh my god and she started sobbing

and she said are you fucking serious i can't breathe and uh but they thought she knew a little more than she was uh letting on because she posted about awesome news when he left and all that kind of shit eventually she said quote, that's a bad sign. That's like when you're on the phone with someone. They go, all right. So it's one of those. Yeah, it's over. OK, she says, quote, honestly, I didn't know anything until a couple months ago.

She says Dave had been digging a digging in the manure pile. OK, I'd never do that. I never want to live on a ranch. If one of the jobs is go ahead and dig in the manure pile for a while i am not doing that what if he was so bored that that's what he was doing shoveling shit for fun just out there throwing it when he partially uncovered the body of what she said they thought looked like a large animal at the time that's all it was he said it was uh she was partially mummified and wrapped in plastic you know like you do with animals that you shoot um dave said that he

had encountered plenty of carcasses while living there but this one was different he told stephanie you can see parts of a rib cage looking out poking out oh boy so he called steph over and said is that what is that what we think it is basically and steph said maybe i'm gonna go call mom so deb told her daughter to stay away from the body claiming it was a mountain lion or a bear that jake had shot and she just she told her daughter quote it's a legal game that's all i'm going to say super illegal it's a yeah very never mind the most dangerous game the most illegal game as well hunting people you can't have that you definitely that's that's very illegal you don't want on your Never mind the most dangerous game, the most illegal game as well. Hunting people.

You can't have that. You definitely, that's very illegal. That's a book you don't want on your wall. A mountain lion, you get a ticket. This is worse. I'm sure with a $50 fine or a thousand, even a fucking hundred, I don't know. So she told her daughter to put the manure back on top of it and leave it alone. That's what mom did? She just poured shit on it?

Shit on top of it. Just put the shit on top of it just put the shit on top of it wow so and the weeks after that steph and dave would make jokes about it they'd uh they'd talk about calling the police but they never did this is what steph's telling the cops how many times did they say he's in deep shit oh he's deep shit that dave uh he said then then the investigation started ramping up and stephan Stephanie said once the cops started asking more questions before they actually came out to the ranch with the search team, that they need to rebury this somewhere more secure. So the family avoided what they were discussing. They just called the body it and sometimes called it the bear because mom said it was a bear.

Eventually, though, she tells the cops, quote quote i knew in my heart it was jake well no shit you did really one afternoon dave used a backhoe to dig a hole inside the corral and a couple a couple of days later they put jake in there um and they put fucking heads on him i guess that was their idea to try to throw the dogs off and then a bunch of shit and dirt and all sorts of stuff on top of that and they figured done and done so um now the cops are looking at this and according to deb's medical records she weighed 87 pounds at the time of the murder they're like and also she had recent gallbladder surgery nine days beforehand yeah there's no way she did that yeah so they at work she'd been assigned light duty at the nursing home right and at the

ranch she wasn't able to lift a bale of hay at the time so it'd be difficult her son that's the thing and uh and uh and also when the doctor examined her a few days after the murder when she had gone back to the doctor for a checkup uh her none of her stitches had been torn either okay uh jake weighed about 175 pounds so almost 100 pounds more than her so it wouldn't have been very possible for her to drag him from the second story of the lodge all the way to the manure pile i don't care how much physics you know and chemistry or any other stuff she's just she's an aunt that's not yeah right yeah so uh now everybody thinks all of his friends think that because deb's dying and she has cancer that she's covering up for her daughter and all that sort of thing.

You know, they said, quote, no matter how bad it was, I just can't see her shooting her own boy is what her friend one of his friends said. Cell phone records shows that Steph had been awake in the early morning hours when he was killed. And, quote, Deborah didn't gain anything by killing jacob another a colorado bureau of investigation person said like why would this person why would debbie kill him right he's doing the work and there's nothing to gain uh but steph on the other hand gained sole ownership of the ranch because the will had been changed but uh either way clearly they weren't fucking depending on anybody finding this body obviously and they figured that no one would raise too much of a fuss over this guy he's a quiet guy keeps to himself only has

a few friends not like he has a job out there he stays at the ranch didn't count on these friends being actually so fucking loyal to their friend that they were looking for him which is amazing i hope somebody looks for me if i'm missing well Well, I will. Thank you. I have to. Yeah, that's true. Financially, I need you. Fuck, where's James? You know, I'll look for you, too. This friend ain't gonna pay himself.

No, we're... God damn it, Jesus Christ. We need to go on the road here. After the discovery, there's all sorts of different, like we said, confessions and non-confessions and, you know, Deb trying to say that he was a violent drug addict who was with the wrong crowd, and all this shit, and Steph tells him that Jake was a worthless waste of space who was lazy and useless, and, yeah, so. Good Lord.

No wonder why he fucking wanted to get away from these people, you know? Jesus Christ. Thanks, Mom. Yeah. Thanks, sis. I think my sisters would say the same thing about me, though, so. Good Lord. thanks mom yeah thanks sis i think my sisters would say the same thing about me though good lord so finally they go they're all arrested obviously charged with different things though yeah now uh

dave jackson is just is just charged with like tampering with a body in an aggravated way yeah uh he ends up pleading guilty he uh he says that quote i feel after talking with my family and defense attorneys given the circumstances this is the best course of action. Besides, my brother, my father, and my son are the biggest victims. I can't put them through a trial that would be a media circus. And he's saying how his son's been through enough with this whole thing. Poor bastard goes by Alan Jackson. It gets worse for that poor kid.

That poor kid got kicked in the head by a horse. No. He did, right around this time. He got kicked in the head by a horse. No. He did, right around this time. He got kicked in the head by a horse and was in really bad shape. Fuck. I mean, I saw the picture in the hospital bed, and it looked brutal. Like his head, yeah. Super head trauma.

He got kicked in the fucking head, and I guess he recovered from it. I don't know if it's a full recovery, but he didn't die, and he can do things. Did he forget his name? Don't know about that, but that kid's, that's a tough life, man. Both your parents are, we'll talk about it, where both his parents are going yeah and then you know yeah and there's no way he's getting out of that anyway it's just it's smart that he yeah guilty he did and uh yes so uh he said that this is what dave said about his son his safety and well-being are my top priority and uh basically they had first charged him with homicide and then uh it

was based on his criminal liability as an accomplished as an accomplice but they ended up you know letting him plead less and uh they said quote this requires proof that miss jackson acted our mr there acted with the specific intent to have jacob millicent murdered all this shit and uh the prosecutor said these cases are very challenging to prove after years go by and evidence degrades and uh but he pleads guilty and the judge says you sir may indeed fuck off 10 years in prison for dave that's light dave gets 10 yeah he gets off a little bit light now may 13th 2019 uh deb is up for murder charges here she decides she tells the court based on her physical condition that basically she doesn't want the last months of her life to be done in court yeah so she's

going to plead guilty and get it over with so she doesn't have to put everybody through shit so she pleads guilty to second degree murder which is hardcore um yeah she's murder yeah she says quote i will admit i did shoot jake but i did feel it was self-defense because it was an imminent impending threat from him it was hanging over me to the point i could not sleep i took actions into my own hands i did shoot jake is it right for you guys uh is it right for you guys to punish me uh yeah she said basically it's going to be the same time no matter what i'm dying I'm sentenced to death either way. So there's that.

She also said, my daughter in no way knowingly had anything to do with Jake's death or any cover up. I deeply regret any harm I have caused here. And yeah, she said that she understood why. Basically, she tried to raise self-defense and the judge wouldn't even let her raise it as a defense because he was sleeping. So there was no possible way of self-defense. No evidence for that. Yeah. So she said that it didn't matter anyway and she was fine with that.

So the prosecutor here in his closing said it's important to remember who the victim is. Those are the people who fought hard for him, fought hard for him to be found for two years when Mrs. Rudabaugh left him in a manure pile you ma'am may fuck off yeah 40 years wow 40 years bang deb hard she ain't even gonna do 40 months so this woman's dead soon uh deb is uh yeah this is 2019 oh this happened so we'll talk about that was may 2019 uh deb is in there so 40 years and i mean fuck man you shot your own son that's great we've never had this before a mother's shooting her adult son with a 357 right that's fucking brutal that's like for sure erasing it like

no that's what i mean she said i got one shot at this so now steph goes to court and uh after september as of 2019 in september basically they're charging her with first degree murder after deliberation holy shit yeah they're charging her just as hard as debbie yeah uh was originally before she pled um she's also charged with accessory to a crime tampering with a deceased human body tampering with a witness or victim concealing death tampering with physical evidence and abuse of a corpse. All sorts of charges that just don't sound good on the resume. You know what I mean? Some death sentence.

It's a bad Tinder profile. Well, I've had a little trouble, you know, concealing a death, tampering with physical evidence, abuse of a corpse. But other than that, everything's fine. But here they wondered what's going to happen. Is she going to go on trial? She's scheduled to go on trial in the fall. And the friends, though, are worried that she's going to end up copping a plea deal and not having to not actually finding out what happened.

So but what ends up happening, November 11th, 2019, Deb dies in jail from cancer. So Deb's dead. She spent her last few months in jail, which is pretty deserving after she shot her fucking son in the head. But she had stayed for a little bit. It was over. And the treatment when she's going through is not going to be as good.

Not as good anyway. They do do cancer treatments and shit, but it's not the same as if you were on the street. There you go. Pat you on the ass. Have a good one. Hydrate up. Hydrate up. Hydrate up. He said hydrate up.

So two days later is Steph's court date here, and she is allowed to plead guilty at this point. They drop the murder charge. She pleads guilty to tampering with a deceased human body with aggravating circumstances. So they have a big set of the sentencing guidelines here are pretty wide. So sentencing hearings important here. They had a two hour hearing for this for sentencing. And basically they said that she they tried to say that she at the very least influenced her mother to change the will of the ranch and then influenced her mother to harm him. That's at the very least, if she didn't do it herself.

At a minimum. So, yeah, the prosecutor admitted that he would have a hard time getting a first-degree murder conviction. He said the challenge for the prosecution is providing the first-degree murder charge is that we did not have direct evidence of communications between Stephanie Jackson and Deborah prior to the murder in which the killing was discussed. That would be premeditation. So he said there was strong circumstantial evidence that showed that. But for Miss but for Miss Jackson's head games with her mother, Miss Rudabaugh would have never murdered Jake, which makes sense. The prosecution had no direct evidence of a statement or communication between them. So at the sentencing hearing, the prosecutor repeatedly used Steph's own words and Facebook

posts against her to show that, you know, she was telling her friends around the time of the murder that something big was happening for their family and all that. And the prosecutor said, quote, That big thing was winning the lottery and getting the will change to inherit the ranch. The greed and malice is patently obvious here. It is a tough case, but the court knows of the aiding and abetting and encouraging of Deborah before the murder. And we know, based

on compelling facts, that Ms. Jackson knew of Jacob's death immediately and said after the killing that now I know what I moved up here to do. That's what they say. So, yeah, they reiterate that Jake's body was in the manure pile and they re-fucking buried it and all that. The prosecutor says, what a moment to see the body. And the reaction is not to call somebody, but to hide it, to not tell anyone and instead rebury it.

This is an aggravated case. Ms. Jackson participated in this one way or the other. She involved others and had caused unimaginable injury to her own son. rebury it. This is an aggravated case. Ms. Jackson participated in this one way or the other. She involved others and had caused unimaginable injury to her own son. This is an aggravated case and with how she treated her brother shows a complete failure to respect the dignity of life. Her lawyers read portions of letters that people sent in that urged the judge to be lenient in the sentencing. They described her as a loving and caring mother a solid neighbor a good person who you know made a mistake and she's okay uh one of her attorney our attorneys told the court that while she was growing up there was no physical abuse in the family but there was loud arguments and screaming matches between her parents so they

are italian who cares so what that's normal right what the fuck are you talking about she certainly knew man oh she didn't tell her husband no i think just i think they did it that's it right i think steph and dave did it period i don't think they've had anything to do with it oh maybe they found the body under the shit and didn't know ah he knew you think that was their story that's the story they told the cops i uncover it's like oh look a rib cage right my your ass i don't think dave knew considering they made dave do all the physical labor they didn't take him out and bury him under the shit they had to prepare dave for what he was gonna have to do too steph did not pick up a shovel and scoop shit up at it and deb couldn't have at the time so dave had to have buried him

so i think maybe steph shot him and then said dave yeah and then made Dave haul his ass outside. Unbelievable. So, yeah, there's that sort of thing. Now, in Steph's statement, she read a statement. She apologized to her father, you know, who's still alive, and the family, and quote, anyone affected by my mother's heinous actions. Jake was blessed to have friends that didn't give up on the search for him. What a fucking ball sack on this woman. Holy shit. And she's going, those motherfuckers. I hope one of them hit her with a spitball

while she was saying it or something. She said she wasn't involved in the murder, but was guilty of believing the lies my mother told everyone for two years. I admit I didn't follow my instincts. I didn't call the police when I should have. When confronted, I panicked and lied to the police. Jake and I didn't have a good relationship, but that didn't mean I wanted

harm to come to him. My conduct and messages to friends and on Facebook were insensitive and immature. I acted childish, and I'm truly sorry for that. All I can do is apologize for the actions that brought pain to others. I am dedicated to doing anything I can to make my family heal. And the prosecutor had the last word here, and she said, Stephanie Jackson put a train in motion that put us here today. She said on Facebook she was going to play head games with her family. And she certainly did that. There's a lot of talk about accountability, but there has been zero. And then the judge says that he was particularly struck by the Facebook posts found shortly

after the murder. This affected him a lot, and especially when she posted that big things were happening. And he says, quote, This was the most interesting case and one which will probably never know the entire truth. You, ma'am, may fuck off 24 years in prison for her. It's not bad. She's going to get out, James. Oh, yeah. That's fucked up.

Now, the pre-sentence report suggested the sentence should be on the high end at 24 years uh they did comment that uh you know it's great that she was a good mother and all but they're troubled by some of her statements and actions and all that sort of thing and uh she has credit for 16 uh 619 days served at that time too so two years so i mean maybe she'll be out in 10 she's got good whatever dick man she's a dick now uh we'll give uh one of jake's friends here the last word because i think they were the real fucking heroes in the whole thing just finding them uh uh this is uh the kathizer person that's the last name this guy said quote a lot of mornings when i wake up i think

about jake what his life would have been i like to think that he could have sold the ranch for quite a bit of money and maybe just gone and worked a regular job somewhere, bought a house. Maybe he would have met a girl and whatever. And he doesn't get that opportunity. That's what I would have hoped for for him. Just that he could have gotten into a life that he wasn't frustrated at every day. Poor Jake. He never got there. And but Deb is a fucking asshole.

Yeah, I don't the deb's what a she's a she's a bitch she's a horrible person yeah anyone who had anything to do with their son's murder is a horrible fucking person and i know it's guess what there's a double standard there is we expect we expect a father maybe to kill right to do this in the house but this is not is that a double standard yes yes it is i'm sorry but we expect more from someone who the the child physically fucking emerged from that you would have some attachment to them and not want to kill them man not the you know fucking obscure sperm donor thing also the other part is like she she's responsible for any behavior that he has that pisses her off

you know i mean yeah you did this to him that's what i mean you caused this for christ's sake oh boy so that is gunnison colorado and poor jake millison and uh his family that will be in jail for a while yeah and his mom who's dead and poor alan's got to wander around with a head injury head injury and both parents in prison kids like five years old today can't uh i think he's 10 now is he nine or ten 11 maybe something like that but making a recovery from the horse incident so it's where to kick him in the fit in the front i don't know where in the head i just said the head specific i stay blurred out his face in the picture but you could see he's in the hospital with fucking things attached to him everywhere i mean it looked if it was my kid there i would not be in good shape put

it that way it was rough looking man to see anybody like that i was like whoa that's i don't want to look at that picture for too long tortured enough he's gonna be like that dude in office space where they go you like michael bolton he's gotta stare somebody in the face and go i love alan jackson yeah he's great he's the best you know if he's the fucking the greatest. I hate Daft Punk. Pharrell can eat death. Fuck him. So that's Gunnison Colorado, everybody. Hope you enjoyed that. If you did, I know

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So I wanted to put that out there. We'll put that out this weekend. We're going to put bonus shows out on the weekends. That's how we're going to do it. So we'll put that out this weekend we're gonna put bonus shows out on the weekends i like how we're gonna do it like so we'll do that but this week here it is the oh baby the prisoner dating game all violent felon edition part two absolutely so that is this week's one and those are big we do about three four of those a year we'll do and uh those are the biggies man they're the funniest thing you could fucking want to see or listen to, I should say. So if you want access to all of that, very easy to do that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

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through there but I don't fuck following you know what I need to follow I need to follow you to tell me the list of the people Jimmy the most wonderful people who would never kill us, dig us up from a manure pile, and then bury us under a pile of goat heads. Hit me now, Jimmy. Nanashi, Chrissy Zivenhoven, Chrissy Ann Castaldi, Lori Pites, Ava Green, Alicia Belcher, Marie Kirkland, Rob Lanto, Doug and Steph Urban, Cheryl Shine, Erica Silberstein, Laurel Paquin, Ayn, I think, Jill Knapp, Mark Peralta, Christian Wall, Mallory Crow, Daniel Barb barbier sure penny pain she's a tattoo artist in saskatoon go see her uh megan silvers sammy uh messerly jacob dockery amy uh amy hyler andrea stone allison ramos happy sixth shithead i don't know okay cool and give his name well you know what happy and jordan bennett thank you guys so much for everything you do. We can't

do it without you. Other producers this week are Jules Harris. Her daughter, Ugga, is turning three, so happy birthday. Jack Britton, Jonathan Parker, and their crew over at Artisan Cannabis, CAP Department. They all listen every week. Awesome. Alex with no last name, Kit Gaston,

Rob Gibson, Lindsey Greer, Kayvon Bierman, Matt Hughes, Layla Bingerd, David Bengler, Brian Fisher, Warren with no last name, Josh Larson, Morgan Grant, Graham Wilson, Clayton Lovelady, Jerome Henry, Scott Stevens, Ash B., Rommel Santos, Tessa Andrzejk, I think. Probably not. Brandon Day, Jeff Chaos, Callie Weenum, Kate L. No, it's Kate's birthday.

Happy birthday, Caitlin. She's up in Nova Scotia. Jenny Bukowski, Andrea Stone said that. Tori would know the last name. Casey Weatherly, Amber Laeverick. Leverick. Lisa Cohn. Alan Feuer. Laura Steele.

Josh Guido. That one's so much fun to say. Harrison Lee. Ian C. Ava M. Ashley Elliott. Emily Marie. Anthony Shiani.

Elizabeth Davey. Giovanni Brazell. No. Kyle Ruest. Ralph Snart. I think it's Snart. Jizzm. No, that can't be right.

Jizzm. Yali Pepper. I apologize. Jesse Lawson. Courtney Chaney. Isabelle and Gary Pickren. Chris Cleveland. Brent Crider.

Kristen Richards. Kristen Kilgore. Jennifer Nance. Eric Thompson. Luke Bayless. Joe. Yeah, Joe Bellahem. And he donated so many different thank you joe ray sanders roxanne peterson katie pew you guys are hot and i think i don't know if

that's two people uh yeah yeah yeah i should oh what did i tie tight tie shara jones i think i'm sorry benjamin weisner uh preston shut david stuck michael gruner bryce brunecki uh danielle Kai Shara Jones, I think. I'm sorry. Benjamin Wisner. Preston Shutt. David Stuck. Michael Gruner. Bryce Bronecki. Daniel, no, Daniel Kleeman. Morgan Schwartz. Jennings Shore.

What did I say? Skolor, Skolor, Skol, McCoy, McCoy. That's not right. Tay Schofield. Jack Occhio Grosso. Probably not. Mike Thomas. G. Jones. Lacey Paxton. Nicole Evans. Jack Occhio Grosso probably not Mike Thomas G. Jones Lacey Paxton

Nicole Evans Ariel Ortiz Lisa Gibson Sidney Vittori Vittori Vittori, obviously Stacey Gillen Misty Everett

Leilani Mara Pedro Gonzalez Janelle Boyd Christian Matt Bodko I think probably not Connie Smith, Tristan Reyes, Nathaniel Russell, Beth Casto, Stephanie Paul,

Stephen with no last name, Ashley Hamilton, Bradley Dooley, Megan Steinberg, Donna Burnett, Sarah Fuck-I'm-Tall. It's not a last name. Stephen Cloutier, Ariel Teague, KS, Sherry Brickbill? probably not, Chris Ringland, Angela Katrix, Shea, is that Shea?

Oh, it's Thea S. Vicki Morley, Vincent with no last name, Dustin Van Dyke, obviously, what is it? Dicks. Dick and Jerry's. Obviously. Emily with no last name, Stacey Manley, Aaron Presley, Verena Hutter, Erica with no last name, Tialey aaron presley uh verena hutter erica with no last name tia hall lisa smith marcy desotelli no ashton trammell katie somerville kimberly kimberly sharp wayne davis john vote vot uh shane sullivan june johnson lucille 87 uh jason right

haley would no last name lexi posh uh alissa in chains well done jennifer silva uh hogan's heathens whoever they are uh david aller kate uh larue charisse i think epps chris reisenbeck jen hardman alabama sassafras nice jim e can't read oh you fucker stefan would no last name ruby shaffer kristin pain danielle moorish christy would no last name Nice. Rolf, Michelle Duncan, Derek Harding, Tasha Harmon, Sal with no last name, Sandy Ebsen, Adam Chichi, Sam Hartrup, James DeWitt, fuck, Terry Collier, Aiden Smith, Teresa Schnell, Steve Hinkle, Stevie Hinkle, Andrew, oh boy, what did I do, Kambis? Probably not. Annie Franken, Ivana Torres. Monica Rodriguez. Denise Poorboy.

Cam Smith. Scott Solos. Carly McGillivray. Probably. Joey Image. He's a wrestler, and he sends me messages about our wrestling episodes and adores you. So thank you, Joey. Well, thank you.

He's going to bring – he has to bring Sonny to one of our shows. Which is great. If you show up with her, Joey, I'll cry ugly tears. Johnny Crable, Steve Strickland, I said that, Snuggle Love, Rose Wiener Spofford? No. Judy Jennings, Beth Burke, Matthew Quick, Milva 12, Dante DiValli, J.B. Wallace. Oh, it's J.J. Wallace. What an email.

Thank you very much, J.J. Hang in there, man. Seriously, keep going. Rem Dem, Ashley Rowland, Elizabeth Zarkos, Robert Magruder, Josh Johnson, Mariah Jensen, James with no last name, Will with no last name, Joanna Gillis, Callie Baldridge, Melissa Tulini, Daniel Griffin, Romina Ganico, Ganeero. I don't know if that's an RRK. Thomas Slater, Norib with no last name.

Clayton Treble, Danielle Rogers, Wade Blaine, Sarah with no last name, Anne with no last name, Tyler Carr, Jody with no last name, Owen Paratus, I think, Jordan Harbin, Trish, no, Trish Murley. What does this say? Making, oh, she makes COVID masks. Oh, cool. Thank you, Trish. Hang in there.

Keep going. Keep making those. Andrew Welmers, Christina Horton-Morris, Eder Zamoa, Stacey Holtz, Penny Carver, Eddie Sanchez, Anus. No, it's not. What? Anuj Jamiri? Bong Bong, another man Anus.

Gamir. Gamiri. Thank you. Kendra Helm. I don't think it says anus. I think that's a J. Oh, okay. It might be an S. Alex Gannetti.

Dylan Hyde. Jesse Pitts. Sean Stevens. Quincy Moe. Liz Nelson. Jules Harris. Dominique Basoma. She lost a stray.

Sorry, Dominique. Hang in there. Amanda Yates-Garcia. Sharon Jernigan. Sarah Bell-Wilmers. Naomi McCarthy. Steven Rood, Dana Riley, Stephen Whitmore, Jake Medder, Gina Golan, Jack Hicks, Larry Blunk, Karen with no last name, James Hooper, Jenny Shader, HJC, Molly McCarthy, Peyton Meadows, Mackenzie Asprey, Phil, no, Re, that's Re Rendell, SoundCloud

Bliss, Dion Horn, James Marder, Homestretch, Charlotte Hill, Amanda Dixon, Milagros Gonzalez, that is the whitest that's ever been said, Dr. Steve Schnell, congratulations, brother. He finished his PhD program and passed his test. Way to go, buddy. Natalie Howe, Tracy Renninger, Jude Kendall, Tara Gilchrist, Stacey Rae Boardman, Margaret Lubert, Janice Hill, Ashley Veo, Holly Davidson, Stephen Tucker, Amanda Knight, Autumn Kia, Brendan Abel, Stephen Mace, happy birthday, Big Dick Boo from Gigi.

Weird. Kira Donahue is the Empress of Heirlooms. And all of our patron supporters. You guys really change lives. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you guys so much for everything you do, for

supporting the show, for every person you tell about the show, for every dime you give us, every review you give us, every ticket you buy, t-shirt. Thank you guys so much for supporting us every review you give us we can't every ticket you buy t-shirt thank you guys so much for supporting us and being there for us all the time you guys are there for us like jake's friends are there for him that's how we feel it's really amazing how yeah i mean the world is is seriously on fire and you guys are still amazing kept us afloat and i can't i can't thank you enough i feel like if we went missing they would look for us yeah they'd put together they'd put together are you kidding me like jordan bennett

and tj mac and our you know liz vat our people gary howard be driving around his truck everywhere jason fuller would be on the east coast with his truck all of our people fucking andrew bailey'd be searching australia and mark busby behind him looking for shit fucking maj be over in fucking england checking us out. I think Bailey's in England also. Oh, I thought Bailey was in. No, he's in Australia. Is he?

I think so. Andrew Bailey's in Australia. I think he's from England, but he's in Australia. Maybe so. Possibly. That might be true. I hope so. I love that dude.

Anyway, but yeah, these are our people. They'd be out on the hunt for us, man. So thank you guys for that. It's really fucking amazing. Thank you for hunting for us. We appreciate it. What if they wanted to hunt for you just on social media? How could they do that?

Oh, it's so easy. You don't have to hunt very far at all. At Wisman Sucks. W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter and Instagram. And then somebody sent me a message telling me that it's her and her boyfriend's anniversary. They tried to see us in Louisville. They saw the show. CJ, I think his name is.

Oh, okay. And they saw the show, but then they didn't in Louisville. They saw the show. CJ, I think his name is. Oh, okay. And they saw the show, but then they didn't hang around after. I don't know. Oh, okay. So they wanted to say hello. He loves us. Well, howdy. It's his birthday or their anniversary.

Happy anniversary day. Anyway. Happy anniversary. Thank you both very much for listening. Where can I find you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny. We're just copy and paste my name and make it easy on yourself because no one can spell james petrogallo so with that said everybody thank you for hanging with us enjoy the bonus stuff this week enjoy everything and we're

definitely going to keep coming back and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.