Small Town Murder - #181 - A Bloody Path To A Monster in Enosburgh, Vermont

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

This week, in Enosburgh, Vermont, a young woman disappears, with zero clues to go on. Police classify her as a missing person, but family members fear the worst. When she is eventually found, brutally murdered, the investigation quickly goes cold, and stays cold for 14 years, until new information comes from a very unexpected sources, and puts all the pieces in place. The result is a the outing of a monster, and a tough legal battle. More layers than a gigantic onion in this one!! Along the way, we find out that no one should ever try to milk a child, that you never know what goes on behind closed doors, and that where there are brutal attacks, there is often murder!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Enosburg, Vermont, the disappearance of a young woman sends investigators on a trail that turns cold for 14 years until new information comes from a truly unexpected source

and all the pieces fit right into place. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! That's how excited Jimmy is. He was jumping the yay gun. My name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Westman. Thank you folks so much

for joining us. Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Absolutely. He's very excited here. Thank you very much for joining us. We have a wild show for you this week. This thing is crazy. It goes from multiple places and decades. It's just a disaster, this case.

You'll be angry at the end of it, which is even better. Love a case like that. No, it's really, this case. And you'll be angry at the end of it, which is even better. Love a case like that. No, it's really, really insane. Hope you enjoyed last week, which obviously was just as crazy. But let's get through the top of the show real quick and get into the show here, because there's a lot of show to get to. Thank you for your reviews this week. Those Apple podcasts, that purple icon, those are helpful.

So if you want to help out the show, do that. Give us five stars. It really does help. Go to shutupandgive give me murder.com for all of your merchandise needs also you can check out all your crime and sports stuff listen to crime and sports what's wrong with you lots of good stuff there check it out this week's a good place to start last week's a good anywhere's a good place to start crime and sports give it a run check that out also check out psa hate this movie on fridays and uh that buy tickets to live shows live shows are all rescheduled for 2021 you're welcome which is good we're happy about that at least they're scheduled now and uh so any tickets you buy even if they get rescheduled again you'll have them for when that happens but hopefully

they'll go on 2021 we'll be very excited about. If you want to be a producer of the show, have Jimmy mispronounce your name brutally at the end of the show, which is a lot of fun. Not only that, have access to all the bonus material that we have in store here. We're talking all the crime and sports bonus material, all the small town murder bonus. We had a violent felon prisoner dating game a couple weeks ago. This week here uh we're going to have a pretty wild case from illinois i'm gonna do like a mini murder case fun and it is a woof it's insane trailer park and many people it involves duct tape and lots of murder it's been two months since that yes yes i think so since we did a little mini case maybe yeah exactly so

we're gonna do that now and check that out for the bonus episode. That is patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you can do that. And if you just want to be a great person with awesome karma, you can go to PayPal and make a donation. And using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Disclaimer quickly. Sure. First of all, it's a comedy show. This is a comedy show.

We are telling a story that's a murder. So you you might go that's a strange decision to pair those two together that's what we're doing so if if you don't think that they should go together you shouldn't listen to the show it's not for you it's not for you but if you think you know maybe you have a little bit of a dark sense of humor and you think you know what there are things around a murder that are funny yeah it's obviously not funny during a murder. We're not saying, you know, oh, then the knife plunged into his chest. And we're like, oh, my God. Oh, he severed the aorta.

That's great. That's not what's happening at all. There's a lot of craziness that goes on around murders. And that's what we like to focus on. And also, there's a lot of crazy murder. But we don't make jokes about the actual murder part so much. And what we don't make jokes about and we go out of our way not to joke about is we try not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family as well because we're assholes, but

we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, man, are we going to have a wild time? Enjoy. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together. First of all, I think maybe you're probably misjudging us. Number one, you should maybe give it probably misjudging us, number one. You should maybe give it a shot.

But if you don't like it, don't complain later because we warned you. That sounds good. Fine. Everybody sit back. Let's do this. Let's start this out from the bottom of your lungs. Shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy.

All right. Let's go on a trip here. I'd love to. Let's do it. We're going all the way to Vermont this week. All the way. We'll be there for two weeks now. We Let's do it. We're going all the way to Vermont this week. All the way. We'll be there for two weeks now. Quarantine for two weeks.

Going all the way to Vermont. Now, before, actually, you know what? I have a bit of good news, and I'll save it for the very end of the show. A very, very piece of good news. I'm going to save it for kind of the end where there's a part where it's going to bum you out. And I'm going to say, guess what, though? And tell you something good. So it's going to cheer you right up And I'm going to say, guess what, though, and tell you something good. So it's going to cheer you right up.

So make sure to get, you know, stay tuned for that. So it's Enosburg, Vermont. Gross. We're going to. Yes. Penisburg, Vermont. It's E-N-O-S-B-U-R-G-H. Can they call it Enos?

Enosburg. Don't do that. Who knows? Enosburg. That's what they should do. It might be. Who knows? What do you think? People mention this in public anywhere no this is the first time anybody would tell me they're from

enosburg i'd look at them a bit sideways right well then in this area enosburg covers like east enosburg and west enosburg and north enosburg there's like 3 000 people in the whole area but they have like 45 little towns of all Enosburg. Gotta give all the description on the Enos where they're at. Well, you want to hear more? There's also Enosburg Falls.

That's gross. That's terrible. I was saving that one for last. That's why it's the grossest. That's disgusting. There's Enosburg Falls, which doesn't spell it the same either. They spell it without the H.

It's literally half a mile this way included in their population zone it's the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life so this is in the this explains it this is the far northwest corner of vermont this vermont's a weird state if you've ever been there and the farther north you go the weirder it gets once you get to candidate like restarts again you know what i mean it starts at zero again because the canadians don't adhere to whatever's going on. The automata turns over. Yeah, it does.

But it just gets weirder and weirder as you go farther north you go. Just like a car. It starts to get real weird as those miles rack up. Once it flips, boom, you're good. So this is practically Canada. It's like right there. And Vermont is one big panhandle anyway. So have you seen super troopers that's

vermont and that's you know people are not surprised by that behavior so it's about an hour to burlington vermont about four hours down to boston and about an hour and a half over to st johnsbury which was episode 127 menage a nope which was one of my favorite titles I've ever had. Maybe the best ever. Maybe my favorite I've ever come up with on that one. It's a good episode, too. This is in Franklin County. Zip code, I'm only saying this because I love the zeros.

0-5-4-5-0. That's awesome. That's great. 802 area code, 48 square miles. That includes all the Westin-y, all the penisbergs are in there. Every one of your every one of your the greater penisberg metropolitan area is represented on the show. That's all the way down to the bulbous Enos Falls at the base. So gross. oh it's so gross so yeah uh the enosberg here like we said it includes enosberg falls uh

bordo ville east enosberg north enosberg sampsonville west enosberg and enosberg center of course yeah and it was all named for roger enos who was the commander of all the vermont forces in the american revolution he's a commander commander commander commander penis where should we go i will lead you by the tip of my sword always leading by the tip of his something the amount of time god we're 12 i know his name rhymes with penis and we can't stop giggling that's literally how far we fall the poor fuck has to be yeah the guy in charge we

want to do high-minded comedy and be smart and we we try at times but sometimes when a word just when a guy's name rhymes with penis we have to be 12 because that's who we are. Poor fucking guy. Yeah, that's what you get there, penis man. So Roger Penis, he was also the father-in-law of Ira Allen, who was the founder of Vermont. And yeah, so there's that. The town is like a commercial center now. It has a lot of stores and restaurants, kind of for the whole county. It's kind of the commercial center where you're going to get your gas and your restaurants

and all that sort of shit now. But early pioneers decided to settle on top of a hill near the center of town because it was located on the Boston Post Road, which is a direct route from Boston to Montreal. Got it. So that's why they decided to make this town, because it was on a road to two better places or two fucking you know bigger places or post is that for the post office the post road yeah it was the post road that the post office would take the you know post none of the post office but the postal carriers

would be taking that and so they would do that and they also set it up there because they thought they were scared that there still might be native americans roaming the area so they wanted to be on a hill so they could see him coming smart they weren't around or bothering them at all but they were just let's make sure yeah keep a lookout just in case just in case so uh 1796 is when settlers began moving in and building houses and shit like that they had 143 people in 1800 wow look at that but it grew to 704 by 1810. That's a lot of fucking. That's a lot of fucking and moving and that sort of thing. They had a lot of shit here. Canada's right there as well.

So they could kind of come down and go up. And they had multiple places to trade. They could go across the border. They could go over to Montreal. They could go down to Boston. They could go to New York. They had a lot of options. So that helped there.

By 1870, they had 20 or so buildings. They had churches, all sorts of shit there happening. The one thing they had is a guy named Dr. B.J. Kendall. Dr. Blowjob Kendall of Penisburg. How could he? Come on, man. Just go by your first name, Byron. Jesus Christ almighty. What the fuck i don't

know it's dr kendall they always call him he wants to be called bj he insists on it i insist you call me bj all righty i had a friend who's a cop and her name was billy joe and she insisted no no yeah billy joe remember kids in elementary school have bj by the seventh grade they'd be brian yeah that's why the seventh grade kids knew what blow jobs were and you were done that was it hi brian brian i thought you're i didn't even know your name was brian who's bj shut up don't say that tired of being called blow job all summer she was in her 40s i can't do it i know your husband don't do this don't do this man so bj kendall dr bj kendall started making his cure for spavin what is that a common horse ailment oh okay now this treatment put the town on the map

basically and the spavin cure company would go on to build the village's first water system and the opera house. That's how successful this was. This guy, old blowjob Kendall, had a drugstore on Main Street there and began experimenting with a bunch of recipes for different things, a bunch of prescriptions, things like that, searching for a cure for Spavins. things like that, searching for a cure for Spavans. It's a horse disease of the bone and hind hock or ankle joint,

which his horse would be afflicted and that would be a problem. So finally, he found a formula that he found to be very beneficial when applied to horses suffering this terrible ailment. So he named it Kendall Spavinincure and sold it over the counter and then he launched this huge advertising campaign yeah and it made the town famous he made he made it in a barn behind his house and uh there was so much demand from everywhere he couldn't keep up with demand it got crazy so he found some business partners who would you know help like produce it basically a mass produce this sort of thing um so yeah he's doing he found some business partners who would you know help like produce it basically a mass produce this sort of thing um so yeah he's doing he found all this thing he also found a bunch of

other kind of minor ailment things when he like but he found by mistake when he was trying to make the spavin cure here so he was really doing well he's formulating all these other medicines and it's really being popular becoming a real popular thing now the the problem is though with it it's like most of the medicines back then there's just a lot of drugs or alcohol in it basically back then this works great well yeah it's half morphine that's why it works great uh what it is well no it's uh it is this one publication called it a quote goodly amount of alcohol. He's just getting the fucking horse drunk. The Spavincure contained 41% alcohol.

And then a quick relief, which was a formula for humans to make them feel better for their human Spavin, was 72% alcohol. And they said that might have been a factor in the person's relief. Well, yeah. If you drink something that's 72% alcohol, you're going to fucking feel better and then go to sleep. That's how it works. You're not going to feel whatever hurts. No, you're going to be like, I felt sick, but now I'm horny. It's super weird.

Now I'm horny and I want a cheeseburger. What's going on here? What a weird medicine. I like it. I'm waking my wife up and a cheeseburger in my head i can't talk for shit i can't even communicate how horny i am let's uh i'm just start pulling this out and rubbing on it hold on let me finish my cheeseburger it's good i got fries too so uh yeah their biggest thing now and has been for a while, because now this is a big dairy area.

There's huge into dairy in this area. Cows everywhere. Ah, there's fucking cows. Vermont, you know, Ben and Jerry's. They love cheese, too. Goddamn cow on the thing. Yeah, they're big into dairy up there and all that sort of shit. So they have the Enosburg Vermont Dairy Festival founded in 1956.

And that's a big deal. Draws tons of people there to showcase their agricultural industry. Now, reviews I found of this town. I found two reviews and they are completely diametrically opposite. So, yeah, subjective, apparently. Take what you will out of this. Depends on who you are. I guess it depends on your angle here.

Here is one that's a five star. Excellent. Terrific. Couldn't be better. Best place I've ever been. Best place. Quote, Enosburg is a small town where we all know each other. If you ever need a helping hand, someone is always there to give.

Charity events, fundraisers, and benefit dances are always positive and full of everyone in your town. Sounds like a nightmare from 1952. When you know one, you know all. It's easy to know who you may want to keep your distance from. Oh, boy. The riffraff in town. It's easy to know. They wear name tags.

It's easy to know who you want to keep your distance from and who will be there when needed. Oh, that's only there. The school is great. Diners are good and easy to have conversations at. Okay. And the country life and mountain views are astonishing. Downfalls or high tax is not much for amusement parks. You're in fucking, you're in the middle of the forest.

Right. Ride a cow. Where do you expect up there? Oh, they're going to put a six flags in fucking penis, West penis burg, right in the middle of it all. Fuck out of here. So thrilling activities or shopping centers.

There's no people. That's why. What do you expect? Let's build big businesses just for five people that live in the fucking farmland in the middle of nowhere. It sounded like a review from the person that plays Tinkerbell at Disneyland. It's easy to tell who's the villain here because we know them all. They have horns and shit.

They walk around going, mwahaha. Whoever's going, mwahaha, it's probably the bad guy. So that's how they tell in that town. All the bad guys have a curly mustache. And they twist it and go, mwahaha. all the bad guys have a curly mustache can they twist it and go so uh i found another one and this is a poor review here there's a one-star review did not like it very much this is this is awesome quote enosburg falls this which is right there smells like cow manure for a lot of the summer and and farmers wear poop-covered boots into restaurants and cafes.

I'd negatively review the shit out of that, too. Not good. That's gross. Excuse me, there's feces. Maybe change your boots before you come to eat. I like the, I'm going to get the Reuben and feces platter, but hold the feces if you would. Actually, hold the Reuben, because the feces are everywhere. Can't help that. Tuna and feces, please.

Thank you. Feces melt, you can get. How. Tuna and feces, please. Thank you. Feces melt, you can get. How do you make the au jus around here? I don't think I want to know. So the internet is very expensive, and all utilities are very expensive for that matter. You're in the middle of nowhere. What do you want? To put it out there costs money.

What's the internet cost? I need him to give me a roundabout of his Internet bill. And then all the noise of the big city with the isolation and entertainment variety of BFE. Nothing to do. Close minded folks. Old boy network runs the town. Yeah, it's expected. But where this is this noise coming from?

That's what I want to know. What big city noise are you experiencing? Are the cows moo what i want to know what big city noise are you experiencing are the cows mooing loudly what the fuck big city noise is happening out here pave that uh that postal route with a 13 lane fucking freeway that's what i mean what is happening here that it's such a goddamn big deal well the people here population 2771 in enosburg it's a lot of basically college kids and old farmers. That's who lives here kind of a thing. So more females than males.

Median age is a little bit older. It's about 44. But there's, like I said, a bunch of old people here. What college is up there? I have no fucking idea. With poop-covered boots, old people. Like a Ball State somewhere else's shaft state. Yeah, there's a absolutely there's a taint

berg yeah uh you is right i think down south a drop just south of there right yeah so the uh married people here are less because you have old people and young people which the dead people they have dead dead spouses and haven't found spouses yet. So you got that there. Married population with children is lower, but there's a lot more single people with children. Kids will fucking have kids. So that's what happens. The race of this town is Vermont, so it's pretty white, as you might imagine. 91.5% white, as a matter of fact.

6.2% black, which I was honestly shocked about. Wait a minute. That's shocking. Did you say 95? 91.5% white. I was going to say, you can't do that in 6%. No, and 6.2% black, which is, like I said, I was honestly shocked. I don't know how that's been.

0.0% Asian, 0.0% Hispanic. Wild. Out of almost 3,000 people. Wow. Not one Hispanic person. That's insane. That% Hispanic. Wild. Out of almost 3,000 people. Wow. Not one Hispanic person. That's insane. That's crazy. So the religion here, it's a little bit under.

It's usually 50-50 here. It's about 43.5%. A lot of Catholics. About 35% Catholic. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North. So that's what happens. 0.0% Jewish, which that's, wow, there's no Jewish people. That's interesting.

We're close to New York. Boston and other cities. It's the East Coast. Yeah, I don't know. 0.0% Islam as well. Franklin County here was 44% Democrat in the last election, about 40% Republican, almost 16% Independent here because it's Bernie Sanders' home state. 44 percent Democrat in the last election, about 40 percent Republican, almost 16 percent independent here because it's Bernie Sanders home state.

So I think you had a lot of right ends there. I would assume so. Unemployment rate here is really low. This is kind of pre world on fire here. So it was two point three percent here, which is way low, lower than most median household income, though, isn't exactly that high either, though. It's usually about $57,000. Here, it's about $47,000.

But almost everybody's got a job. That's nice. Yeah, and the cost of living, as we'll find out, is pretty low. $100,000 is regular average. Here, it's about $90,000, the cost of living. By the way, they have 4.1% of their jobs are forestry related, which is like usually 0% of anything. 4%. 4%.

So there's some forest shit going on. The housing is low. It's a 65 out of 100. Median home cost $151,200. So pretty low. And I found some places that were even lower here. 50% of the houses were built before 1939 my christ which is way the average is usually about 20 in the rest of the country so that is

real it's old yeah they haven't added a lot to it and and it depends too if those things have been taken care of because they yeah oh they could be great yeah those old ones and the population here has kind of stayed really on par for a long time. It hasn't gone up. It hasn't gone down. It's just kind of stayed in the ballpark here. I've been staying in these houses a long time. Well, if you want to stay in a house for a long time, I can help you find one.

We have for you the Enosburg, Vermont Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,315, which is above the national average. Yeah, it's cheaper to buy than rent here by far. Now, if you want to buy, let's say you want to pitch a tent or build a house, I found a 6.8-acre lot. A lot of trees here, just tons of trees, $45,000. Wow. Not bad at all. That that's awesome it's pretty cool yeah and there was other lots too 10 acres 20 acres that were pretty reasonable i'd love to have that not bad i found a two bedroom one bath 846 square foot manufactured house nothing to it not really that great but i mean if you need something it'd be good for like an old single person like a widow or something good in there eighty nine thousand dollars for that so

not bad if you want to retire or i found a three bedroom two bath eighteen hundred square foot family house and it looks like a barn it's red and has like a barn look to it because it's vermont so it's doesn't it's not an actual barn but it's kind of painted to look like a barn. It's nice, though. $289,900 for that. That comes with a few acres, too. You're going to get like 10 acres with that. I've seen houses with the barn, and that looks kind of cool. But if your house is the barn.

Up in the northeast there, you'll see that sometimes. Especially like in Vermont, where it's like, yeah, you'll see houses that kind of look like barns. They're kind of designed to look like a barn. It's like a barn-style house kind of a thing. I don't know what the fuck. That's folksy, I guess. I hate it. Well, who knows?

I think that's how they were building houses in 1930 maybe. You know what I mean, too? Possibly, yeah. A lot of these houses are so old, so who knows? Now, things to do here. There is one thing to do here. Oh, boy. And it's all that they care about here.

It's the Vermont Dairy Festival, everybody. Oh, boy. And you know what it says right on the front page of their website? No. Vermont Dairy Festival, right under that. The pig races are back! Oh, boy. Exclamation point.

They are jacked. They're back! Yeah. Fuck yeah! By popular demand. When they're super fast, does that make the bacon better? I think so. Well, no, that'll make it leaner, probably. don't want that you want a little fat in there i think

you want the fat lazy he looks a little yeah guy falls asleep like halfway through the race that's the pig you want the bacon but the fast one makes the good ham oh yeah maybe i there's no such thing as good ham ham is gross fucking gross i like any kind of like any of the italian ham prosciutto shit like the ham is disgusting it smells like a fart and tastes like a salt lick why would i eat that and it's pink what am i eating it's not i love a ham and swiss fucking hate ham ham and bologna i think i knew that but i think i've forgotten I don't eat ham at all. I like being reminded of that. No ham. It's nasty.

Smelled it in my mind. I was like, ugh. So the milking contest. Calling all kids. That's right. Calling all kids, exclamation point. Come milk a cow, exclamation point. Put your hands on these cow tits.

Come on. Jerk the milk out of these cow tits. So the youth milking contest starts at 2 p.m. That sounds like you're milking the youth. Right. The youth milking contest is not okay. That sounds like who can... Up here in Penisburg.

Yeah, up here in Penisburg, we milk the youth. We have a contest at 2 p.m. Sunday, and whoever can milk that youth the best that is disgusting that does not discern from male or female that is creepy it should be the cow milking contest for youths right that should be how it's not the youth milking content youth milking contest when you leave the cow out of it entirely on their says it on their website. The youth milk. Jimmy, I copped. Look at that. It's a picture. It's direct.

That's disgusting. Youth milking. Yeah. So it's divided into three age groups. Oh, that makes it even grosser. Five to seven. You're not going to get much out of that group. Eight to 10 still.

11 to 13. That's all the product. Whoever gets that's going to win, I think. You're going to get that category. You'll fill a bucket of it. Yeah. And it says, quote, come give it a try. That's all the product. Whoever gets that's going to win, I think. You're going to get that category. You'll fill a bucket of tea. I think, yeah. And it says, quote, come give it a try, which makes it even worse. How did they spell it, James?

No, they spelled it normal. But still, to say all that and then say, come give it a try, makes it even worse. Don't believe all the stuff you heard. You can milk a boy. Don't knock it till you try it who says you can't milk a fourth grader we're extra catholic up here come on let's prove it that's right sponsored by the catholic church the youth milking contest father o'donohue will oversee the give him an irish name i don't know michael jackson milky kid to beat it oh my god

oh he gives the blessing that's right dilly he'll just be keeping track of them for later that's gonna be on his sister yeah okay sister who's an older not too much older but somewhat that's the most disgusting thing we've ever encountered ever i don't know you can cut oh god parents have keep an eye on you when they leave the house that's who i want come give it a try everybody step on up here wow then we have thursday night is the lie that's the first night i don't know how you have any energy left for anything else your forearm's about to be real sore yeah this then it's the vermont dairy festival scholarship pageant which they mix that with a youth milking contest i don't She's forearms about to be real sore. Yeah, instead it's the Vermont Dairy Festival Scholarship Pageant, which they mix that with a youth milking contest.

I don't like where this is going. Guess the winner of the milking gets the scholarship. That's what I imagine. That's all I can imagine. He makes the most spunk. So, that day also the Dennis Cain Memorial Youth Run, away from people trying to milk them, I assume.

It's 12 and under. Run, kids, run. People are trying to give it a try. Memorial. This is a disaster. It's named after the kid who got like. You're going to hate what's up next, too. Tug first, Dennis Cain, was that his name?

Yeah, Penisberg. This is just awful dennis kane penisberg chefs shafling town unbelievable taintsville uh then there's uh bingo under the bingo tent which sounds like you're jerking someone off on or something then 5 p.m isaac french will be there who's a local singer and songwriter. He'll be on the Got Milk stage, which, again, I'm really disgusted here. When is this? This is in June, I think. Of this year?

Yeah, they had to postpone it to next year. They're hanging on to the Got Milk campaign from 2004? Oh, yeah. Oh, it's still. That's what the dairy industry is going on here. And they have a no-limit Texas Hold'em tournament here. Then Super Bingo. If regular bingo wasn't enough for you, $250 payout for this one.

Again, under the bingo tent here. So sponsored. Oh, then on the bandstand, Son of a Gun Rock and Roll. That sounds like a band right there. Then we're going to have a 50-50 raffle. What else we got going on here? More raffles, raffles. Introduction of dignitaries and guests.

Then at 10 a.m. on Saturday, I believe here, Pirate Dan's going to be there, everybody. Pirate Dan roaming the parade route on his ship. Wait, what? Pirate Dan, everybody. He sounds like a local DJ, doesn't he? Yeah. I'm Pirate Dan with Rock and Roll 101.5 so they don't know that pirate ships

go in the ocean vermont's wildest craziest kid milking is stationed in the entire northeast everybody the pirate ship of vermont yeah i don't even have a beach nope nope but he's there pirate dan then there's a dairy baking contest baking dairy i suppose uh then there's uh antiques and famous barbecue chicken oh boy the masonic hall has the barbecue chicken sylvia fletcher comedic ventriloquist will be on the got milk stage followed by a mass suicide right jesus fucking christ which i will leave personally if i had to watch that shit uh comedian magician ventriloquist ventriloquist not magician way worse then they have marco magic show which is a comedic magician here there and we all drink

spoiled milk more bingo robert clark magician juggler funny guy is what it says oh boy in other words asshole is what that says to me then farmer tom will be there to discuss life on the farm and stories and songs oh boy holy shit then sylvia fletcher's got a 430 set oh she's got an encore yeah then 515 they present present the rising star Isabella Elkins on the bandstand stage. Oh, boy. Fireworks. Country music at its best. They're going to have here more fireworks.

Pancake breakfast. Holy shit. What is this? Cabin fucking cabin bullshit. I don't know what's going on. The pedal pole. This is a whole weekend. It's everything, man.

Drawings for Jake the Steak. Oh, no. I don't know what's going on. The pedal pole again. This is a whole weekend? It's everything, man. Good Lord. Drawings for Jake the Steak. Oh, no. I don't know what that means. Oh, it's a pun of Jake the Snake. Yeah, obviously. And then the steak because of the cows. And then Cow Plop Bingo to round out the weekend. Wait, what?

Cow Plop Bingo, which I assume maybe you use cow shit as a marker. Not sure. Crime rate in this town. Wow. That's how they have fun. That's how they get down over there, milking kids. So crime rate in this town. And they open with that.

That's their opener. That's right up front. Well, you got to get everyone's attention. Nothing's going to get their attention like the five to seven year old kid milking competition. You really got to grab them. I know how we can grab them. I know how we can grab them. That's going to get their attention. I'll tell you what we can grab them. That's going to get their attention.

I'll tell you what. If nothing else, it's going to get their attention. Once you grab them, you don't let go. Ben and Jerry have turned away from this whole event. So crime rate in this town, property crime is slightly high, but not too high. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average. Right.

So it's kind of like where there's a lot of college kids. You get a higher property crime, but they don't kill each other as much. So that's helpful. That's good. Yeah. So that said, let's talk about a murder because we got a weird one for you today. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's not that they're all not a little off. We never have one where it's like, oh man, well, that was pretty, I don't know, nothing happened. Nothing happened there. It's never like that. Well, he he walked in he robbed him and i walked outside police pulled up caught him all right then that never happened thank god for that oh boy so uh november 4th 1976 is where this story story starts it's important to say starts because it

lingers and goes and twists and turns and whoa it's weird so uh let's talk about a young lady at this point in time let's talk about laurie ganyo is her name g-o-n-y-o uh laurie she's 29 years old right now her birthday is november 30th 1946 and uh here's laurie i'm gonna show you a picture of laurie right there she's got like a that's like big hair big old seven like late 60s early 70s i think that's her high school picture or something yeah it's a it's a big uh thing here but anyway she graduates from essex junction high school and attends also johnson state teachers college wow so she started out as uh like studious she's born in 46 so she graduated in like 64 yeah i mean that's like she's like the beach boys are on the radio and shit like that's that's interesting poodle skirt yeah that's

like what's also a very you know tumultuous time there that's right civil rights is coming in there's lots of shit going on in 64 but not in northern no vermont up there it's uh mum's the word mum well the moose the word i think is more like whatever noise a moose makes is the noise that's moo moo is the word because there's just cows looking at you bugle is the word that's it right there so uh yeah so she was born in burlington vermont and uh but then ended up uh north up north a little bit here her parents are william are willard and Barbara. Her original name is Lori Arms.

Later on, she'll be Lori Gagno. Her husband here is named Ricky. Now, here is her husband. I'll show you him there. He's a 70s guy. Run of the mill 70s. Big sideburns. Oh, it's a whole beard. Beard mustache combination.

Sideways face. See that in the background? What's that, beard. It's a beard mustache combination. A little dog. A little dog there. Sideways face. See that in the background? What's that, Jimmy? That is a trailer, my friend. That is a trailer. It's definitely a trailer. They're married in 1971, these two. And this is a change for Lori.

Lori, at some point between 1964 or 5, because then she went to teacher's college for a couple of years sometime between 1965 or so and 1971 lori had a really went through a lot she had a very strange personal life and then by 1971 she meets ricky and like settles right down and completely interesting changes her life yeah it's very interesting here so they were married in 71 they moved to east penisburg in 1974 there they rented a house which was in the area which was down the road from land they eventually buy they save up money while they're there renting this home to buy a plot of land up the street that they want. And it's got a trailer on it. And they want to do that.

It's got some like, it's about 20 acres of land with a trailer and like a horse barn. So, you know, they're interested in that lifestyle. So they rent a house. And then after a couple of years, they end up buying the land and they paid cash for the trailer and 20 acres. And so they saved up cash. That's wild.

They didn't even mortgage it. Yeah. Now, I don't know what that would go for in Vermont. Sure. Because it's not that expensive now in Vermont up there. So back then. I mean, that six acres was, what, 45 grand, was it? Yeah, something like that.

20. I mean, depending on if this is better land. There may be some shitty parts of this. Yeah. It probably paid upwards of $600, $400. Yeah. You know what, Jimmy? You're absolutely right, I think.

Which, I mean, yeah, they could have made payments, but $8, $12 a month, I think, would have done the trick there. So, yeah, they saved it, though. The trailer was atop a little hill. Awesome. A plot of land here. So, they did that. Now, Lori has had some problems like i said before all of

this goes down and she meets ricky and everything and after she goes to teacher's college yeah you would you don't expect a whole lot of craziness she had been arrested multiple times on drug charges and also on prostitution charges in 1968 as well so laurie i don't know what went on with laurie in the late 60s but she had a she had a hard time obviously she went somehow got into drugs which i assume you know got her into prostitution after that probably for a drug habit i would assume but by 71 all that shit is behind her she marries ricky and you know they're living trying to save up money for a trailer and they're doing fine or maybe she just did it to get through college who knows yeah well that who who all is

after college so yeah we don't even know she just student loan debt i don't know from what her mom says she kind of just got off the path a little bit but then got back on it so i mean hey people fuck up and who knows people have shitty things in their life i know plenty of people that are complete disasters you know i know people that are complete disasters. You know? I know people that are pretty successful right now that I know they were shitbags and did a horrible thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just, I pray that they never go back.

But the day they do, I hope that they don't delete their Facebook because I want to follow. Oh, yeah. I want to watch it happen. Yeah. You want to watch it fall apart? I love that. But I know people who are fucking criminals and heavy into drugs and heavy into shit like that that are completely straight and narrow now their kids and their job and that's right i mean they're on facebook with

their your friends don't even know about this i know about you i see you i noticed no one commenting on your shit as anybody i know these are are new people. So one day here, 1976, like I said, November, November 4th, 1976. Like any other day, they had bought their trailer and say, you know, a little while before. So Ricky, the husband here, he is leaving for work, leaves work that morning and he comes home in the afternoon. And Lori is not home. Oh, no. no and he's like where the hell is lori the front door of the trailer is open which is you know odd but not mind-blowing they don't live in you know the south bronx or something sometimes you leave it open for air yeah you leave it open for air they live in the middle of nowhere here there's a there's other trailers around but they're you know you know all these people so it's not like a big deal um the the the the only thing that was askew in the

house was a tv tray you know like that fold yeah the dinner tray the dinner tray there yeah the tv tray was was tipped over leaning up against a couch in the living room and there was a uh an empty tea cup on the floor and a tea bag under the couch that's it that says struggle to me though but that's it though that would be a really it's a fast struggle that's a struggle between ghosts you know what i mean cat went crazy literally yeah it's literally a tray fell and a cup fell off like that's that's the that's the extent of the uh the crazy here the damage to the house but the tea bag under the couch it's not like that it's like right by the because the cat the cup is yeah because they would have fallen off and bounced and whatever it's all it doesn't

look like somebody threw it under the couch or something like that no one's like i'm gonna hide this tea bag no one will find it well i could see somebody throw in the cup and then the trajectory launching that tea bag out yeah it wasn't one like that it was just a fallen right by the tray so otherwise there's nothing broken there's nothing missing there's nothing you know destroyed there's no entrance uh you know any forced entry anything like that her pocketbook and money are there uh which is, again, you would think if someone was going to struggle, that would be what they're struggling for. Otherwise, what are they doing? So pocketbook and money are still in the trailer. And basically, it looked like she went out without her jacket and boots, which is in November in Vermont.

Yeah, you don't do that. It's pretty cold. So that was a weird thing so uh basically he calls the police right away because he just hadn't seen her so he goes i don't know i don't know where she is her boots and stuff are here her purse is here she's gone this is weird calls the police the state police show up the next day with fucking bloodhounds and shit the next day the next day there's nothing else going on they're like oh shit missing person yeah she's barely missing they're like it's cool let's get the bloodhounds they bring them out they go

all around the house and everything like that they pick up nothing no blood no scent no shit it just seems like she literally was beamed up by aliens while she sat on the couch drinking a cup of tea and the knees pushed the table that was it yeah she sat there and it was beamed up knocked the tray over and it just kept going up through the ceiling and was it yeah she sat there and it was beamed up knocked the tray over and it just kept going up through the ceiling and was gone right that's what it seems like happened wild it's strange or beamed out the front door gently something very weird here shut it behind her yeah or she was angry and ran off but who goes out without your purse and money and boots yeah i mean you need the purse for the id if you just won the lottery yeah that's the other thing yeah if you're gonna leave this guy in the trailer behind

you need something and she had money in her wallet so there's money in her purse just sitting there which is odd so you know they talked to ricky obviously the husband here because his story is i got home and she's gone so they're like okay well let's check on that clearly uh he says the last time he saw her was at 5 30 a.m said he was leaving for work early in the morning he said he dressed and he was getting ready to leave their trailer there uh it's a he works in essex which is we've done essex by the way new hampshire yeah new i was one or vermont sorry yeah no we've done essex vermont that's one of our cases i don't remember one of the first two and that's where he of the first two. And that's where he went to. That's where he that's where he works.

It's about an hour away. So it's a it's a drive. So he was building a house for his father in law there. That's what he was working on. And he said that Lori was still in bed when he left. He said, quote, I brought her in a cup of coffee like I always do. She said, I love you. And then I left.

So that's that's his story so far. So he's and then she switches from coffee to tea at some point. I apparently switches from coffee to tea. And I don't know, either took off or we don't know what the hell happened here. So that's his story, though, which is, you know, it's fine to give that story. But right now, the police obviously are looking at they look at the spouse first oh number one and he's just like i just left and i came home and you know beamed into the sky yeah so they're a little hmm we don't know about this they don't know about anything who the hell

knows they don't know what happened here so he said uh when he got home and was looking for her he went out to the small barn to see if maybe she was out feeding the horses because they have gotten a couple horses that she's been really into lately and so he said oh maybe she's out grooming and feeding the horses and you know doing horse shit yeah horse maybe she's milking a kid out there we don't know you know she could be practicing for the big for the big dairy festival she's got a whole like fucking fifth grade class in there she's just practicing oh my god that is the most i'm still fucking twisted by that out of this whole case yeah there's gonna be awful shit that happens nothing that's nothing

can top milking the youth milking contest that's the thing we've already peaked with our grossness so uh so she's not out there and the horses haven't been fed either really yeah and he could tell because there's you know remnants and shit that's clean they haven't been fed and the trough is empty yeah he's like okay that's odd so he's he's said he doesn't know you know what's going on he had built the barn over the last course of the last year or so for his wife and uh she has two mares of her own and also takes care of an Arabian stallion that belongs to her sister in Connecticut. So it's housed up here. So she takes care of these three horses all the time.

Like I said, two are hers. So he couldn't find her. That's when he called State Trooper Leo Willie in Enosburg Falls. And he called Corporal William Kitchell. Everybody's a Willie and a William and fucking Jesus, who's a state police detective, and they brought the bloodhounds over, and the Willie said, quote,

there were some sense, but nothing really strong, nothing for the bloodhounds to go on. So, I mean, vanished, thin air, fucking crazy. So, yeah, he says that the state police at that point say they have no leads and they consider her a missing person they don't consider her a victim of something they consider her to have left because there's no sign of a struggle bloodhounds pick up nothing as far as blood or even trace of anything of other people of anything like that no struggle no anything the cops are like you know ricky i understand

you're upset to the husband but we think maybe your wife just took off dude and you know that's the extent of a police investigation back that's it they look around has a dog sniffing they're like she must have left you right or you killed her one of the two that's literally their two things they gotta pull him aside and either tell him he's a loser and she hates him or you're a murderer. Or you're a murderer. One of the two. That's what they think.

Which one's worse? Either we think you did it because there's no sign of a struggle and things like that so you're hiding her somewhere. Or, yeah. Our investigation isn't included. She fucking hates you. She went back to the streets. Yeah.

One of the two. God, that's painful. She went back to, yeah. She went back to. There's no grissom coming in with fingerprints and dna no no no no a dog dog sniffed your house said you're a loser three cops named willie have a dog on a leash and they go what now boy three cops named willie dog's name willie dog says you're a loser that's what he told me He said, your wife don't like your penis no more.

That's what happened. Good dog, Willie. Good dog, Willie. Willie knows things. We named him Willie, not after any of us, just after Mr. Nelson. Just after Willie. It all works out, though. Oh, man.

So nothing there. So, yeah, they said that, you know, who knows? Now, Ricky, at the same time, because this is the police are telling the newspapers missing person. That's what this case is. And Ricky is going to the newspapers on his own. The husband saying, no, she's not. He thinks she was carried out of the trailer against her will. That's what he thinks.

I'm not a loser. I'm not a loser. My penis is wonderful. She loves me. I'm the best goddamn kid milker in this fucking county and don't you goddamn forget it i win the scholarship every year and then i donate it to the poor fella and i donate it that's right so yeah that's what he thinks so they search they're looking at her as a missing person but they're kind of giving it some lip service yeah we'll take a look around

for a type of thing but ricky and his friends like go fan out into the woods for days they're kind of giving it some lip service. Yeah, we'll take a look around for it type of thing. But Ricky and his friends, like, go fan out into the woods for days. They're just traipsing through the woods for days looking for Lori. As you would as a husband who the police, you feel like, are giving up on you. Or as you would if you're someone who doesn't want to look like you killed your wife, too. Another good point. One of the two. You have no choice. You've got to go walk.

Either way, you've got to go for a fucking walk around walk around those woods doesn't matter whether you did it or not let's go it is fucking imperative that you take a stroll around those woods just lori lori i heard something y'all hear that lori is that you lori oh it's a raccoon all right well i don't know i don't see her walking so yeah he um but ricky here. Well, I don't know. I don't see her. So, yeah. But Ricky here, yeah, they don't know. So he's going through and he's searching through the woods, him and his friends. He's everywhere. So he tells the press, Ricky does, she was carried out of here.

The bloodhounds couldn't find a trace of her. So that's why he thinks that she was carried out of the place. So, yeah, the next day the cops are talking this is police corporal william kitchell here he says quote there was no evidence of foul play or violence in the trailer and uh they didn't have anything to with the bloodhound so they're like as far as we can tell she took off sorry have a good one have a good one press yeah so that's it ricky though is not letting it go at that uh he says that he's inviting the press over to talk he really wants to get it get it out there in case anybody sees her so uh he talks to the press from his house he says that he came home he says quote i noticed the door was open

and he points to the front door he said quote her jacket and boots are were over there pointing to the living room he said he called out to her, but there was no answer. He said, quote, there was a TV tray sort of tipped over a little near the couch. It wasn't even like it was just leaning on the couch. I saw a cup halfway under the couch and a tea bag on the floor. Sorry, I had those backwards. He said he noticed a small stain on the couch. He said it was still wet.

It looked like some tea had been spilled. So that's not a major it was just a little bit and he said quote all her money her pocketbook and her cigarettes were there nothing was missing okay if you're taking off you and you smoke you're leaving with a your money and be your cigarettes period absolutely done and done i'm never leaving without them if i smoke and i'm leaving somewhere for good as i'm running away yeah i'm gonna need cigarettes in this situation even if i don't run out i'm gonna fucking need money to buy them to buy some cigarettes my fucking mind yeah in about two hours on the lamb with no cigarettes this is a fucking bad times for all here so there's theories are flying around everywhere

the press the cops the cops theory to the press is she left yeah shrug i don't know what the fuck to tell you uh ricky's is she must have been carried out uh now her family has other theories her mother has theories her sister has theories they have family friends who have theories ricky has theories dangerous and they're all telling the newspaper all these theories so there's this let's let's put them all out there what people think is floating around i just see her in a ufo at this point just you know the only person enjoying themselves is the author of those nude are news articles it's like i've got a new story well yeah i get because every day it's different because you can talk to this guy and you'll be like oh then his sister said that her

sister said that it's fucking ridiculous yeah the recurring fucking column and it was too because uh as we'll talk about laurie remaining missing it goes on and on and people talk and they you know talk and talk and more theories and more things and more bullshit and everybody's got a everybody's got a fucking opinion yeah on because i mean it's like now if you hear take whatever cold case that's out there a famous cold case and everyone's got an opinion oh my god everybody anybody that's ever there, a famous cold case, and everyone's got an opinion on it. Oh, my God, Jeremy May. Anybody that's ever met her is the murderer. Ask anyone, hey, did you listen to Serial when it was out? And they will go into an extensive diatribe

of exactly what they believe happened to Heyman Lee and exactly what Adnan, whether he did it or he didn't, and then Don was in there, and this one, but I don't know about that. And it's fairly convincing, no matter who argues it. I mean, if you look at his time cards at LensCrafters, you got to put it on Don. But then I got to add not over here that you will get that from a very sane, normal person. They will go down a rabbit hole for 45 fucking minutes about it.

And that's something they don't even know the person. They just saw it on TV or heard it on a podcast. Meanwhile, this is happening with a real human being in their lives in their lives and they're just like well i'm gonna i have an opinion let me give it and they're just spouting off at the fucking mouth right which is i've never really seen in a murder case before i'm not a murder a missing person in anything case right it's just weird yeah in our history anyway so her mother this is laurie's mother her name is uh barbara arms she and also her sister karen her name is is barbie arms barbie arms barbie arms and karen champ she's a champion level karen so karen champ those that's that's laurie's mother and sister

karen is the one who has the arabian stallion that Laurie takes care of. Gosh, she lives in Connecticut. Absolutely. So they don't even agree. No. They have differing theories, and they're both going to give them to the paper. Oh, my God. And they're very fucking different, too.

What about the family comes together and has a joint statement? You know what I mean? You can't all have... Joint statement? Yeah. What are you talking about? As a family? Get the fuck out of here. You guys say it all together. You can't all have... As a family? You guys can all say it all together.

You can't... You talk individually to reporters and put as much murkiness and muckiness in there as you can. Disseminate disinformation is what you want to do when you need your relative found. Jesus Christ.

Put out as much cloudiness. You really want to really muddy the waters i'd say you know this is why we don't know where madeline mccann is there's a lot of people we don't know where they are where they is because of this right so so her mother here's this is fucking wild she okay oh let's give her sisters first this is k Karen Champ. Her sister is her older sister. She says that Lori left Vermont after attending Johnson State College for a year. So she went to the teacher's college for a year. And then, according to her sister, quote, she got involved with the wrong kind of people in Philadelphia and New York City.

That's different. This was when she was still single, when she was in her early 20s she says quote i don't know too much about that but the only time i ever heard from her was when she was in trouble or needed some money and she said that she she also said her sister that she thought possibly a lot of the people she hung out with were not exactly law-abiding people and uh you know who knows what what that could be too if she's involved if she's back involved with drugs or if these people have some kind of old beef with her or something that's what she said why are you trying to dig up her

past though lady that's what i mean she's giving voluntarily giving all this information which which i mean honestly if you're looking for a missing person you need to know all this information because if that happened maybe she is in philadelphia somewhere you know with a fucking needle in her arm that you need to know that that's where she is you can find her then so she's been back in vermont and doing fine and has a husband and takes care of horses how about we don't jump to the first conclusion that i don't know maybe she's back to hooking and doing drugs again and then beamed into thin air though but, you'd have to give a background on somebody missing of where she could possibly because it wasn't like that was 20 years ago.

That was five years ago. This happened like an awful lot, though. It seems like an awful lot. It's enough time to reset, I think. How many? Okay. Crime and sports wise. You got a good point.

How many people are like, I'm fine. And then nine years later, they're like fucking holding a fucking bennegan's hostage with a machine gun while they smoke crack in one hand and fucking grope a woman with the other and a girl with her hand slammed in a car door is out front can't go anywhere can't go anywhere please just let him have whatever he wants this hurts that's what's going on who knows i don't know this is coming from a karen too that's fucked up is every karen grim yeah well then she says this though then she says quote i don't think she left home voluntarily i think she's out of state though she's saying that she thinks she took off and

whatever um she said that her sister was happy living out there the last few years she's been happy she rode horses every day and spent long hours looking after them and uh you know she thought that she thought she was happy up there but that's her former life which is a really weird thing to tell the paper we don't know though she could have talked to the paper for a half hour and they picked out that and that and said this is the thing we want to put out as far as that is the most salacious it is you know that'll sell a paper that'll sell a paper you That'll sell a paper. You know, even though obviously that's kind of unfair to her at this point.

She's trying to just live a life and fuck with her horses and shit. Milk a kid now and then. So, I mean, what the fuck, man? I'm just trying to milk a kid now and then. Is that a problem? This is also in the 70s when the media had a little bit of credibility, too. So they wouldn't want to do some some shit like that to somebody in a small town but but in a small town and i mean i wasn't even born yet

small town woman with horses it disappears but she has a secret past of big city prostitution and drug doing and that's a that's a story you know what i mean like that's a oh boy that's something back then make a tv movie out of that shit in the 70s. So her mother, on the other hand here, and her mother and father are divorced at this point. She said that Lori was very happy with her life. She says, quote, she loved the country and her horses and all that. I think something happened up there. Okay.

She said that when she was single back in the day, Lori, that she only called her when she needed money, which is what the sister said as well, because she had a lot of things going on. She said, quote, But I knew she would come home eventually. She loved Vermont. So, yeah, she said she'd come back. So now her father there, Willard, he said that they're all they're all wills and William and Wiltshire and Wiltshire. Willard, Willard and Willie. And now he said that his daughter was content with her life there as well. He said, quote, she was happy as a lark up there.

He said that he drove up to his daughter's home on the night of the fourth after getting a phone call from Ricky. And he said, too, that he thinks she must have been carried out of the trailer that's the only explanation but the cops disagree now a few days after the whole thing goes down and she's missing so a few days later she's still missing and uh her husband here ricky he keeps saying that uh you know he keeps telling the newspaper repeatedly every time that he can get them to talk to him that she was carried out of her, out of there. That's why the bloodhounds can't track her. Then people, okay, this is the thing. People talk.

And in a small town, people talk a lot. So when someone's out there saying this constantly, it makes people suspicious of them saying that she must have been carried out. She must have been carried out. They're like, oh, protesting a little too much here. much here like you know i don't know like you weren't there either man yeah hopefully right so yeah but he's he's looking for his wife you know on on the surface and everything like that so yeah uh he says she's he spent hours she spent hours with the horses he doesn't understand it there is one person who has a theory, though, here. One person outside the family who's a friend of the family.

She's just an acquaintance of the mother. She doesn't know much about Lori's life or anything like that. But this woman, Mrs. Penny Holcomb, who sounds like a party animal here. Yes, she does. She said that she had a vision. Oh, boy. She said she's not no she's not a psychic yeah she's not like one of these you know people who are like volunteering lady she said she no she wasn't sleeping she was wide awake she said she laid down and a vision came to her of

what happened to laurie okay a psychic vision that she's never had before in her life. She said the vision was someone entering the trailer the day of the disappearance. She says, quote, he was a tall guy, husky with light hair that he combed straight back. He carried her out of the trailer in his arms, her head dangling. There wasn't any struggle. He just put something over her mouth or knocked her out. And then she says people think i'm crazy but that's what i saw that's her theory okay husky guy slick back slick back hair yeah there you go and we've got to go on that we gotta well we gotta put that on the news who said that

mrs penny a newspaper said that yeah because they were they wrote this is in a fucking newspaper right under right under the sister and the they go the mother the sister the father the husband and then this penny holcomb that's the fucking who doesn't know shit about her i know shit about it but she talked to the paper and a psychic vision's a pretty interesting story too and that sounds that sounds downright you know that sounds seedy right there tall husky guy with his hair slicked back slinging her over his shoulder and carrying her out, knocking her out and carrying her. But if he knocked her out, the theory with this, though, if he knocked her out, a knockout blow a lot of times will cause some kind of bleeding, which would have left a trail somewhere out. So that's a that's a tough theory there.

I don't I don't buy a knockout blow just for that reason. But cover our mouth. That's a tough theory there. I don't buy a knockout blow just for that reason. But cover her mouth, that's a different story. So, yeah, like I said, all the friends are going all around the woods and the meadows looking for Laurie. Everything's going crazy. November 21st rolls around. She's been missing for, you know, 17 days now, which is getting to be, that's getting to be okay. She should require money by now. That's, I mean, something's, yeah, this is bad stuff.

Either she is dead or very much in trouble at this point. So Ricky keeps talking to the newspapers and the cops, and he says his frustration is growing huge. He's critical of the state police investigation. He says, quote quote if she was somebody important they'd have all kinds of people working on this uh he said but because she's nobody and we're fucking trailer trash basically they just go well she must have ran away and fucking we don't care and haven't because the police stopped investigating after the it's over after the bloodhounds they didn't care anymore basically like it'll pick back up a little bit as we'll

see but as of right now they're like missing person we don't know moving on to other shit any new information for us because all we have says no yeah he's just literally trying to get the talked in the paper to get people to shame the police and people into looking for uh he says he called franklin county state's attorney ronald kilburn, and Attorney General Jerome Diamond to try to get more action. He said, quote, I'm going to the governor next. So he's like, I have no power. I have nothing, but I'm going to try. He says that he spent nearly every day since our Kitchell, that's the police officer, said he spent every day since he was called to the case searching for Laurie and searching for clues.

He says, but, you know, nothing came up. He said, quote, I can appreciate how he feels. He's very outspoken. I know he feels we aren't doing enough. In other words, but he can go fuck himself because we think we're fine. We've done all we can. Yeah, I can appreciate how he feels. Doesn't know what that even if he genuinely means that it's sad it's bad choice

of words it sounds it sounds phony as fuck well i mean i appreciate how he feels i mean you know but uh i know he's very outspoken and he feels like we aren't doing enough but i you know i don't know it's very i'm sorry you feel that way i got a badge and he doesn't so i guess that's how we're doing it that's a good that's pretty much how he's doing it, I think, which isn't really a great... I've got fingerprint dust. What the fucking else do you have to do up there? I don't know. What else is going on up there that you don't have time to look for?

Humor the guy. I guarantee you, you have an extra officer up there who's just sitting around with a pint of Ben and Jerry's in his fucking hand. Send him out looking through the woods. I don't know. Send him out with a dog just walking around. Dogs need to walk anyway. Drive over to somewhere by their fucking trailer and walk the goddamn thing around.

I don't know. Is that bloodhound in its kennel? Then get it the fuck out. Yeah, what are we doing with it? They love to run around, these fucking dogs. Yeah, it's their favorite. Shit. So, yeah, another police officer said several investigators from the Bureau of Criminal

Investigation of the state of Vermont are working on the case as well. But he also said that uh this is the state guy he even said that he has to agree with kitchell that laurie has got to be treated as a missing person because that's what the evidence points to so it's like i'd love to help but i don't know we have no evidence so i open a case that we can't solve is basically what they're doing i get it but i don't get it that's what yeah it's's not great. I do not want to go missing in fucking Vermont. Yeah. And Ricky's very upset.

He said, we planned our lives. We were planning them. He's planning everything we were going to do. He said, we planned to buy. We moved here. We were going to buy that pot of land. We saved up. We bought it.

Our next step was having kids. He said, quote, we wanted to wait and have kids. We wanted to wait and have everything before we had the kids, which is responsible and smart. He said, but quote, I'm spending the last little money I have left to try to find her. That's what he's doing. He's going around. He's not working. He's just fucking walking around the woods all day yelling Lori, which is crazy.

December 2nd, 1976. Oh, my God. Almost a month. is crazy december 2nd 1976 almost a month finally here from all of this pressure and talking to the newspapers and because the newspapers are now calling the police every day every time ricky calls them and says something they call the cops for a response so now it's every day they're getting calls from newspapers small town police departments are not used to that shit and they do not like it so eventually they go fuck it we're gonna have an inquest not an event this is what i don't get okay i'm gonna have people look over what we did an inquest is a they're gonna have a it's a hearing right to

go over all the evidence we have everybody yeah this is what you should be doing when you're building a case this is called building a case what the fuck are they doing up there wow so they have an inquest here it's uh it's held it's uh in saint albans it's a three-day long inquest they had a bunch of witnesses and everything like that come forward the uh they said that they were checking all leads and questioning all witnesses and they said it's not a closed file by any means uh basically they anybody that knew laurie is called into this and questioned in front of a you know people it's a whole like a hearing so all the neighbors all the friends it's a lot of time they could have been just out there looking psychic lady horse people you name it kids she's milked everybody so january 1977 comes around it's now been two months ricky

decides to move to florida really yeah he just leaves his own with this whole fucking fucking takes off moves down to florida now this looks like one of two things yeah this looks like one i'm running away or two i'm this is fucking too much for me and i'm in this trailer and i look at that tray every day and the couch and the tea stain and i'm fucking to barns with the horses and i can't do this anymore i gotta get away from the situation so everything ricky says and does is very can be taken both ways which which is tough so So January 1977, he sells the trailer and the horse barn and everything and moved to Florida, which is, yeah,

that's tough. His father-in-law, old Willard there, he said, quote, he couldn't stand being there with her gone. He said he went to Florida to look for an acquaintance who he believed. He went to Florida too,

is what he told his father-in-law to look for an acquaintance who he thinks might know something about what happened to Laurie. So he's investigating. Yeah, he's literally doing his own investigation. So he moves down to Florida because that's where the investigation has moved, basically. So that's where he goes. Fuck, man. I mean, they did an inquest and they're like, well, I mean, we did a whole inquest and everything. And then after that, you know, I guess we wash our hands till somebody comes in or walks in the front door and says, I took her and killed her.

How you doing? Frank. Nice to meet you. Willie. Nice to meet you. So, yeah, he says that he thinks that he's down there. He knows he's down there. And the father-in-law also says that he probably will find work while he's down there, says he's down there and the father-in-law also says that uh he probably will

find work while he's down there says he's a carpenter by trade so he can pretty much work anywhere which is helpful for ricky when he needs to fucking move places to it's got a lot of building to do also especially in the 70s it was exploding with i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky,

and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, yeah, the police say they still don't know what's going on

in 1977 creeps on even further june comes around june 1977 still no trace of laurie nothing not a word not a trace not a a damn thing the police say they're they're mystified police captain william Kitchell said, quote, the, our corporal said, uh, the case is pretty much at a standstill.

She's still listed as a missing person and there's nothing new. So the cops still are just saying it's a missing person. Ricky has spent every last dime trying to find his wife, literally investigating all the way down the, going 1500 miles to go investigate this fucking shit. God damn it. This is crazy. So august uh 5th 1977 comes around that's a long time it is that is a long fucking time uh at that day the uh there are uh two connecticut residents who are down at the lemoyle river lemoy lemoyle i don't know how you say that. L-A-M-O-I-L-L-E.

Lamoille. Lamoille, I mean, I don't know if there's a French there, but up there, if they're just like, Lamoille. So, either way, there's... Lamioli. Lamioli, goddammit. So, there are people up there, two Connecticut residents, launching a canoe into the river to do some fishing.

It's about 50 yards off Vermont Highway 108 in Jeffersonville here. And it's about 20 miles away from the trailer, the Gagno trailer. What they find, though, once they push off in the water and fishing is they find they run into something with concrete blocks and ropes and tarp and all this shit, like a big block of something with their boat, with one of their oars. They find this. It's off on the side of the thing. So on the side of the shore there on the bank. So they call police, obviously, and say, we don't know what this is. so they call police obviously and say we don't know what this is and uh what they end up finding is uh it is a body yeah uh nude decomposed female body uh hands and feet bound oh no oh yeah hands and feet bound and uh with rope uh weighted down with concrete blocks and wrapped in a rubberized tarp as well with

rope around that weighted down with blocks and put in the river somebody wanted that gone very much i never fucking found this is like you know like mob guys would do less than this to get rid of a body and it's still there and it's still there badly decomposed um now they don't know there's two missing women in this area. They don't know who it is. Really? Yeah. It's the body so badly decomposed they can't tell.

Okay. So they don't know. One of the women that is missing is Iris Brown, who was 29 years old as well, which is a problem. They're both the same age. And she disappeared in March of 1976. She disappeared in March of 1976. So right before that, she had been visiting. She left to visit her boyfriend in Danbury, Connecticut. She left her Burlington apartment to do that, and no one has ever seen her since.

Shout out to the mayor of Danbury. Yeah, that's right. Danbury. She never made it there, so we don't blame you. Mayor Danbury likes her show, and we like him, too. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, he's good shit. So, yeah, no one has heard from her since uh so yeah police think maybe laurie maybe iris brown they're missing almost the same amount of time at the same age around the same size they don't know uh finally

after a search of dental records they do determine it is laurie in there it's not iris brown now one of the strangest things about this whole thing and there's a lot is that the obituary for this now i don't know how you'd put this in the obituary because obviously this is family writes it don't they yeah yeah this is this is fucking heavy right here though i mean the whole thing obviously let's uh talk about it also they believe um once they find we'll get into the the forensics first now uh once they get her into an autopsy they determine that it's probably strangulation the hyoid bone is broken and all that sort of thing so that's a a big time sign of manual strangulation and they also believe there's

been definitely sexual assault as well so yeah this is uh what happened here is is a terrible way for anybody to end basically it's fucking awful uh you know theory is that she was carried out of her trailer and taken out to someplace horrible and we don't know where the where the killing took place it could be anywhere could be somewhere in the woods that we'll never find could be some house somewhere no fucking clue right so she just is you know poof gone so uh it's it's pretty terrible what happened to her man that's uh that's brutal man that's really yes that's a terrible way to go yeah so they think they carry her up but they're still struggling with why why is there no struggle in the trailer if someone kidnaps you physically for someone comes into your fucking living room

while you're having a cup of tea right and tries to physically drag you out there's going to be a struggle something's going to happen there's going to be you're going to grab the wall you're going to knock things over grab a fucking clock on the wall on the way out trying to hit somebody i mean you're going to fight depending you know what i mean depending on if wall on the way out, trying to hit somebody. I mean, you're going to fight. Depending. You know what I mean? Depending on if you knew the person. Right. There's a lot of different factors. Impending doom based on whatever they're carrying or holding. Gunpoint is a thing.

Oh, they stopped. You never know. Right. So her obituary, it is listed that she, quote, died unexpectedly early last November. I mean, I can see that. It's unexpected, all right, but what a weird fucking way to put it. I can see. I mean, don't even put that.

Just don't put anything. Obviously, they're dead. It's a fucking obituary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't usually get those for the living. No, I did find a very angry letter to the editor about the obituary and about the articles about her saying that they were very sexist because they said that she was described as a, this is 1979, by the way, a 29-year-old brunette in the first paragraph and pretty somewhere else. I will say every single article about her, they say attractive, pretty, attractive, pretty, attractive, pretty, attractive, pretty.

Yes. I don't know if that's chauvinistic or if that's more trying to get people more interested in it because you're more interested in a young, attractive, pretty woman that goes missing. It's not even, it's a brain thing. It's the same reason why when Jean Benet goes missing, they go crazy because people go, oh, my God.

She was so pretty. She had so much going for her. So, I mean, that's half chauvinistic and half capitalistic, I think. There's also a point of like, yeah, I mean, nobody. It doesn't need to be said, obviously. I mean, it's a fact. When you say brunette, you're describing a person who has brown hair. It's a fact.

When you say brunette, you're describing a person who has brown hair. I can see it as a fact and being in the story, but I can also see it as the side of like, we want you to pay attention to this. And if I say homely brunette, you're turning the page. That's what I think. I think it's half chauvinistic and half capitalistic. I think half of it is it's a more interesting story because that's the way human nature works. But it's not sexist, because a lot of times in articles, they'll say handsome, whatever, whatever.

They're trying to build the dead person up always. They say handsome. It's more of a tragedy. If they say wretched street urchin fucking drops dead, people go, whatever, and they clean it. But if they say beloved family man who's fallen on hard times, that sounds better. You know what I'm saying?

And you would read that. Oh, what happened to him? Oh, did his kids help him? No. loved family man who's fallen on hard times that sounds better yeah you know what i'm saying and you would read that oh what happened to him oh did his kids help him and no you know i heard handsome about fucking epstein for christ's sake it's in every article about that fuck that guy yeah and they call him handsome yeah yeah what the fuck i don't want to be handsome i never want to be it i'm never working on it never working for it if that guy is handsome fuck that that's disgusting well she goes on to say that this is a real this is a real think piece here they said the phrase pretty implies that her main function was to please others by being attractive and that she was a piece of valuable property that her husband unjustly and unfortunately lost this is shown by the fact that her husband is mentioned both times in the phrases as living

with her and being married to her. Yes, because they're trying to connect it to a living victim. This isn't a it's how unmarried are you? Yeah, I mean, how single and and desperate of a person does this closing is this goes against the fact that women are humans, not property or functioning to please others. This is gross chauvinism that the free press should not engage in okay there are points in there that are good but they don't relate here because you're saying it's your your complaint should be more about journalists trying to make a case more interesting by making it salacious rather than show because they care way more about that shit if they could sell more papers whether

it was 1979 or now or whenever they could sell more papers by saying fucking whore beheaded they would fucking do it if they could make it the most chauvinistic or the least chauvinistic whatever the fuck it would be that would sell more that's what they would write it like so that's all it is at that point but don't read it comes out it comes out like that and obviously that's not the only the fact to say that the only reason anyone cares is because of she's a property of her husband like that's like come on she's a crazy yeah we care because she's a dead human being that's fucking gone that's why we care i mean i grew up in the 80s and i my family is white trash as it gets, and there's nobody

in my family that believes that they own their fucking wife. That's what I mean. There are white trash chauvinistic shitbags, and nobody believes that. I'm sure there's people that do. I was going to say, we should put this with the, also, taint this with the fact that this was in the late 70s, and for a long long time that was kind of the prevailing wisdom so that might be a lot of what this is going off of as well as kind of fighting that prevailing shit that we don't have now so we can't we can't feels like that person that wrote that is dealing

with an internal battle and it has nothing to do with the way this possibly possibly yeah so um after the body's found um police have zero leads still. Nothing. Nothing. That doesn't help any unless somebody wrote fucking property of fucking Bill Willie on their goddamn tarp. I don't know how they're going to. That's fucked, too, because all he wanted was some closure.

Yeah. Husband. And he's got it now in the form of like a big opening. There's a body you know that she's you're not looking you know she didn't run away and fucking the police know wrap herself in a tarp and jump in the river so they're still at a dead end yeah we've got the body now they interview re-interview everybody they've ever talked to everybody that's ever known her all of the neighbors from all the trailers far and wide all the horse people everything like that the investigation is led by police detective henry red vaudier oh boy his name is hank and red at the same time he's got

he is both hank and red two nicknames how much of like a fucking old man can you be when you're hank and red how awesome are those options for the uh for the patch for your mechanic outfit? Oh, yeah. You could either put Red or Hank. Hank. Hank sounds tough. It does. Hank is cool, man. Hank is like a big tough guy. Hank Aaron hitting homers and shit.

You know what I mean? That's Hank. I knew a guy named Henry who went by Henry and hated Hank only because his last name was Tank, the poor fuck. Oh, that's bad. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good at all. Isn't that brutal?

Yeah, the coolest name for the coolest nickname. And it's bad. Can't even use it. Nope, done. So he is, this is the guy who's going to begin this investigation. This investigation, though, is going to go on for quite some time. This investigation will not be over until late 1989 this man will investigate this all through the 80s from 1978 when the body's found

1977 i'm sorry all the way through the 80s he will investigate investigate and investigate this fucking case with literally nothing ouch nothing to go on there's they had a couple of things that were circumstantial that but they nothing they could ever charge anybody with or anything like that and they had a couple different people they were looking at it just kind of fell apart and uh especially fell apart because one of the main people they were looking at ended up moving away and he wasn't there wasn't enough evidence to really pursue the person. So it was like, man, I guess it's, who knows? I guess shoulder shrug that shit. So yeah, but what ends up happening is early 1990,

a man who is the son of somebody who knew that, who knew the Gagnos here, and the son also knew them from the neighborhood, he comes forward. His name is Wayne DeLiesel Jr. DeLiesel. DeLiesel. Wayne DeLiesel Jr he comes forward his name is wayne uh deleazle jr deleazle deleazle wayne deleazle jr comes forward he was 11 years old in 1976 uh november 4th was the day before his 12th birthday remembers it well so he said he remembers it super well and he comes forward with evidence at this point implicating his father in the lori ganyo murder oh they were neighbors of

the ganyos in a trailer okay uh now this is fucking interesting he gives a bunch of evidence so vermont police get a warrant and end up finding this delizal senior down in florida in volusia county florida they find him all the way down there so uh they follow him around and when he drops his nine-year-old daughter off at school they arrest him okay they take him in um he is charged March 7th 1990 with first degree murder oh my god that is 14 fucking years nearly that's and the son ratted him out and the sun ratted him out um the police said when they got him down and sat him down uh and i'll tell you what he said too when they got when they arrested him which is pretty interesting but uh when they sat him down he said quote the police

said quote we talked for hours about we talked for over five hours delisle is still in the denial stage which i mean whatever uh they said that delisle was shocked and surprised at his arrest there um and uh he said we talked about the case for over five hours with the whole thing when they arrested him he said quote oh no that one what that's what he said that was his exact quote when they said you're under arrest for the murder of laurie gagneau he went oh that one wow that's what he said. We'll find out what's going on, who this guy is here. He knows Iris so well.

What was the holdup here? What's the fucking holdup? Well, the investigation was plagued by false information given by DeLiesel's mother. Oh, that gave him an alibi back in the day. So his mom ruined the case. His mom ruined it. According to an affidavit, Irene DeLiesel testified in the inquest, because that was a subject in the inquest, that she picked her son up for work at about 7.30 a.m., brought

him to work, and then brought him home at about 4 p.m. She was driving him around, and she was questioned by Hank Red Vaudier there, and, uh, she was questioned by Hank red body air there. And, uh, she said that she later on, why the fuck did you say that? And she said that she blames her earlier testimony on her medication. Must've mixed up my days on the medication. Meanwhile, she's cause the Liesel worked for his parents. So basically they were his whole alibi. He was at work all day, all day.

Don't know what you're talking about. 7 30 AM.m on now meanwhile that's still 5 30 a.m to 7 30 a.m even if what she said is true that's still two hours to do something so uh 1990 comes around let's find out a little bit about old way uh wayne earl deleazle yeah or if your middle name is earl i swear to god you've killed somebody it's just a fucking fact. We better start looking at his boy. Oh, we'll get to his boy. His boy is a whole other can of worms, man.

Wayne Earl Sonny, he goes by, is his nickname. Sonny DeLiesel here. But we'll call him Wayne because he doesn't like it. And fuck this guy. He was arrested for disturbing the peace in 1961, arrested for a simple assault in 1974, disorderly conduct in both 1969 and 1973. So kind of just some dust ups.

General fuckery. General fuckery. Sounds like a guy out drinking in bars and getting in fights. Right. But it gets worse after that. Now, his first wife that they interviewed said that he threatened to kill her and tried to strangle her multiple times during their 10-year marriage investigators in florida said that she described him as a truck driver and a landscaper and they

found out once they get him in here that he has been charged in ready Ready for this, Jimmy? In Florida since 1978, he's been charged in seven rapes. Wow. Seven fucking rapes, but never convicted. Still on the street. All of them were dropped due to lack of evidence from witnesses not wanting to testify. Because they're fucking scared of him. And one of them, he was acquitted in a jury trial because of impeaching a witness, basically, saying that she was a...

Basically, he would rape drug addicts and prost saying that she was a basically he would rape uh he would rape drug addicts and prostitutes that's who he would rape and then when they would say that he would go nope she stole my money that's what he would say she's a she's a crook she stole my money and he would get off on that shit so that's how he got acquitted he convinced a jury that a rape victim actually robbed him and he was the victim that's how it happened and we'll talk about exactly what that rape was because it was fucking horrendous where there's smoke and fire man and that you think seven seven jesus how many times do you do it and they didn't say shit that's what i'm saying yeah a lot of these women in these cases wouldn't testify against him either because

they were afraid because he got off before they said if he gets off again he's gonna fucking hunt me down and kill me i don't this guy's scary and the cops went no no no there's no law so after laurie disappeared like two weeks after she disappeared he just took off for alaska he takes off for alaska told his wife that he was going to work on the pipeline and fucking took off two weeks after laurie disappeared uh he was gone for nearly a year wow in alaska then he ended up coming back east and was in massachusetts for a couple months and then ended up down in florida where he lived since 1978 like the same little area almost two uh his first wife uh like i said they talked all about the him brutalizing her and threatening to kill her and trying to strangle her every all the time for 10 years well there's a lot of other women one women

woman here in particular has happened in 1979 she went to police man was told uh told the police that she was kidnapped by him by deleel, suspended from a truck hoist. Wow. Yeah. That's some fucking Eastern Bloc torture shit. That was like Lethal Weapon 1. They would hold somebody up by a truck. That's what they do in an action movie.

That's crazy. We're going to put a car battery on your nutsack. Put a bunch of ropes around you and then hook on behind it. That's what it is. It's a truck hoist held or suspended from a truck hoist. Oh, my God. Beat her with this leather belt and various tools from around and then sodomized her with truck tools. Good Lord.

That's what happened to this poor fucking woman. Wow. Others. Many other women up to seven was the charges, but there was others that came forward. We're talking who knows how many women here. The last 20 years. Yeah, for 20 years. Others tell of rapes and beatings along secluded country roads where he would pick up these women or kidnap these women, take them out in the middle of nowhere, and beat them and rape them and leave them there.

Oh, my God. This is a horrible person here. Charges were brought against him in May 1980, which is one month after he was acquitted of kidnapping a female hitchhiker. So he's acquitted, and then he gets more charges brought up against him. The hitchhiker had testified against him that she accepted a ride but he took her to another destination where he tried to rape her and they struggled before she escaped and he said quote i never touched her but she conned me out of

my money and he was acquitted that's the trial and what was acquitted everybody else the charges were dropped before it ever came to trial. The system is broken. I would fucking say so. So Daytona Beach Police Chief Paul Crowe says once he finally got to arrest DeLiesel, he said, quote, I've wanted to get Wayne DeLiesel almost from the first day I ran into him. He's one of these guys you could just tell there's not there's something going on here. Is it illegal just to surveil somebody like that? Like if you have a yes is it yeah you have to have some you can't just follow people around but i mean i mean

you can to take a look but if it's anything more than like just taking a look that's harassment you can't just yeah you can't i feel like that should be legal yeah no which definitely should not be legal the last thing we'd have is because imagine what fucking cops would do with that trail people they don't like that have opinions they don't like, that protest them and shit like that. So fuck them. They can't fucking trail anybody. Stay home.

Just for rape. Like, if you've got a feeling that they rape, let's follow that guy. They're like a serial rapist? Yeah. All right. Let's follow that guy. Serial rape clause? I'm in.

All right. I'm fine with that. I'm okay with that. And if you think I rape constantly, follow me. You'll never see me rape anyone. You'll see me never rape anyone, and it's fine. And then you'll quit. Yeah, that with that. And if you think I rape constantly, follow me. You'll never see me rape anyone. You'll see me never rape anyone, and it's fine. And then you'll quit. And then you have to.

But that's also kind of, if you're not doing anything, but what if you... This guy feels like you would have stumbled onto one. You would have stumbled, yeah. You would have found one. You would have. You just have to follow him for a couple of days, it sounds like. Good God. So, yeah, he said that he has very fucking much...

He's very excited about arresting this guy. He says that... This is Crow again here he says that they've always come up empty-handed against him these six times prosecutors opened up files and tried to go on he went free without facing a trial um he was arrested 18 days ago at this point when they're talking to this guy and they said that um you know this is a this is the first murder he's being blamed on uh this is uh we'll talk about why by the way here how did they find besides the son just saying it yeah well what did they find uh also the son brought forward nude pictures of laurie gagne that his father had

in his possession what a piece of shit yeah nude pictures of him wait he took pictures stowed them in the house and then left are you out of your fucking mind yeah um well let's go back to 1976 jimmy so i i literally knew you'd say that so i have back to 1976 right here because we're going back to explain it trust me here so uh yeah this is where wayne he lived with his wife and children. He had horses. He worked for his parents who owned a farm equipment store. And he was having an affair with Lori. Unbeknownst to anybody except for the kids at the time sort of knew something was going on because they would see.

But his wife didn't know about it. Ricky had no fucking clue whatsoever about it. But it was an ongoing affair that was definitely going on here that's not to besmirch her at all but that's what was going on here um so uh yeah they would often ride horses together delizel and and laurie because they were both horse people right they'd ride their horses together and then they went farther than that um so they said uh the hank red vaudier there he said he knew of delisle back then and he said that he knew that he had a violent history and all that and he said that in in his

mind delisle was always kind of the prime suspect but there was just never any evidence it was just there was what are you gonna do say i really don't like the looks of this guy and there's nothing why he went to florida was to follow up on delisle possibly yeah there was a couple people down there i guess here so uh he said that his suspicions deepened when delisle vanished three weeks after the disappearance which makes sense but then ricky took off two two months later also so he couldn't really say that so new evidence uh let's see here nude photos uh among his accusers here is his eldest son like we said deleazle's children had told police the day of the disappearance that their father and laurie were standing together as the children left on the school bus uh standing outside because they

were next door neighbors so the children had said that but that was all the evidence they had as they were seen by kids in a school bus so uh so what nude photos and they appeared to be banging who gives a shit that's not evidence of murder no right yeah i mean it's not you could take nude photos of someone that you're banging that doesn't mean you killed them i suppose i mean shit there's probably been a lot of people who've been killed that have fucked someone and taken nude pictures with them and the other person didn't kill them today much more that's not evidence no but uh hank red vaudier says that the rope that bound the body came from deleazle's wash line how does he know

that they find because they matched them up oh um it doesn't say deleazle on it well um here's one that's a little more that's shaky but then the black paint on the cinder blocks was traced to a store near DeLeesle's home. And the canvas, I'm sorry, the tarp, it's a rubberized tarp that he used for business, that he used specifically, was identified by a DeLeesle family member as belonging to Wayne as well. And also, they matched the cinder blocks to the cinder blocks that are the foundation of his fucking trailer. Get out of here. That's where the cinder blocks came from. Wow. Those are the same cinder blocks to the cinder blocks that are the foundation of his fucking trailer get out of here those that's where the cinder blocks came from wow those are the same cinder blocks there was two missing trailers leaning and everything he just took i don't need these two i'll just

throw them over there wow so that's how they that's that's evidence that's enough evidence it's not perfect evidence there's no dna right but when you mix everything up else up in the bag and then some more stuff here uh they basically the hank red thought he had enough to charge him possibly but there's all circumstantial and the state attorney was like there's no case they're not bringing this to court and having this guy get acquitted then we're fucked right so the son's info though uh he says that laurie approached the house uh basically laurie had been over that morning, and they had argued, he said, out in front of the house. Lori had left.

Then Lori came back, and he said that Lori approached the house a second time and, quote, his father went outside with Lori and was screaming on the way out. He told Lori that if she ever came back there, that he was going to kill her. The boy said that his younger brother they said that they used to have to clean the barn but instead that morning their father told them just to head right to school don't not go in the barn there and then the other thing is wayne jr the same one that came forward here he says like i said it's the day before his 12th birthday so he remembers it very vividly and he he says, he remembers, you're going to shit right here, Jimmy.

He remembers his father breaking with his custom routine of, quote, slicking back his hair with a half jar of Vaseline. Get out of my life. He's a big, husky, light-haired guy who slicks it back

with Prada. How the fuck did she know that? Don't know, but she was fucking right. She fucking nailed it. And he used Vaseline? Just like that. He said, you know, as like, I don't know if he was joking around.

Some shellac? Gloop. But that's exactly, she said, it was very specific about slicked back with stuff hair. That's what he said. I mean, apart from the carrying her out of the house part. Yeah. She got the description, and that's bananas. That's fucking, when I read that, I was like, oh my God.

And that was, those weren't the same. These are from 15 years difference in the papers. Nope. They didn't put that together. That's bananas. That's fucking, when I read that, I was like, oh my God. Yeah. And that was, those weren't the same. These are from 15 years difference in the papers. Nope, they didn't put that together. That's wild. That lady, she was probably the only one

who remembered that. You know what I mean? Otherwise, we find it in a fucking. She probably read it and was like, somebody, give me a fucking paper.

Right. I gotta prove this. Holy shit. I said it. Call Dionne Warwick. I'm gonna get a job. Miss Cleo's bullshit. This is that time.

Right. This is Dionne Warwick's time. This is before Miss job. Miss Cleo's bullshit. This is that time. This is Dionne Warwick's time. This is before Miss Cleo. Yeah, yeah. This is the 90s. This is Dionne Warwick going on there and fucking. That was a shame to see her doing that. She's saying walk on by.

You know what I mean? It's fucking beautiful. She's slinging this shit. I'm going to walk on by, Dionne. I'm going to walk on by. I'm going to walk on by, Dion. I'm going to walk on by. I'm going to take your advice. It's all I have left, so. Okay, so he says that, that he broke his routine the father did of slicking his hair back.

He also said that his father rushed out to the trailer next door only to return 15 minutes later. Trailer next door is where Lori was. And tell Wayne and his younger brother, Adam, to, quote, keep their mouth shut about anything they had seen. That's what he said. His son also tells police that his grandparents paid off the Florida victims to not to not testify against him. That's why apparently his parents have money wayne's parents they own a couple of businesses and shit the son says that down south all those cases that were dropped because the witnesses wouldn't testify they wouldn't testify because

the parents were paying them off these women were mostly hitchhikers and drug addicts and shit and you know they were giving them a couple grand and they decided yeah i don't need to testify that's that's what the kids say and it definitely happened so police said they're going to investigate that i'll bet that kid has been living his life like and those words echoing in his head for the last 20 years it's fucking yeah hating it well possibly well then his brother has another thing to say about it this gets even it just gets worse and worse oh boy so uh where the fuck was he during this whole time after like i said he went to alaska did all that shit delisle went down to the deton daytona beach area in 1977 right away after massachusetts and

when he when he was down there hank red actually flew down and interviewed him because he said he wanted to talk to him one more time. But he had no new information. And the state's attorney said, well, that doesn't help any. So basically, they said that the detectives routinely reviewed the case file over the years. But for, you know, there was just nothing going on. But basically, DeLeesle, while he's down there, he worked with an excavating company and later opened his own nursery and lawn service so this guy would come in and plant plants in your fucking bed for

you digging he's digging oh boy oh god and he's down in daytona at this time he's and he visits prostitutes he is very lucky he did not run across uh aileen warno fuck yeah holy shit that would have turned into uh that would have been quite the battle would have been a hero that would have been quite the fucking battle well actually she was armed so you know what's a great point he would have went for a strangle and she would have said i got one up on you chief pardon me young man off me yeah i will oh boy so he is down there he was arrested like we said all sorts of times september 1978 was the first time he was arrested in Florida. And basically, that was the thing. They said that he would pick them up.

The women all said they'd pick them up, take them to a secluded area and force them to have sex under threat of violence. Rape them. Take them to a secluded area and rape them. Why do they say it like that? I don't know why they would say it like that. Why don't you just say rape? Each time, police took statements from, this is directly from a newspaper, who charged that to Liesl, picked them up, taken them to excluded areas, and under threat of violence forced them to have sex.

Just say rape. That's much less keystrokes. And it's also, that sounds, this sounds less bad than that. You're washing what is the worst thing you can do to a person. It sounds like under threat of violence they volunteered to have sex, but that's not what happened. No. No. No.

All rape. They're just in survival mode? 101.5. All rape. All the time. They're just submitting to rape to save their own lives and fight or flight? No. This is being fucking raped.

Good God. Say it. So, fuck, man. No shit. Raped. Good God. Say it. So fuck, man. No shit. Just print it. God damn it. So they said that this case posed problems for the prosecutor, though, who says all these cases that they had in Florida were tough.

This is him talking. Nixon, who is the prosecutor, said, quote, that they were prostitutes or strands transient street people, women who had no visible means of support and sometimes were involved in drugs and drugs. Not the type of person who makes a great witness. Jesus. Good God, man. Are you doing your best to try to keep them from ever reporting fucking being being raped? Because that's what I mean.

That's what that's exactly what they're saying. That's a wink. Don't bother. Don't bother reporting it. You know, keep those mouths shut, ladies. being raped because that's what i mean that's what that's exactly what they're saying that's a wink don't bother don't bother reporting it you know keep the keep those mouths shut ladies fuck man lips wrapped around a dick and he yeah and even the prosecutor says that maybe some of those cases were not as thoroughly investigated as they could have been because the police thought it was all bullshit basically because they didn't care. They thought these women were fucking liars or trash and they didn't care. So he said, as a prosecutor, you would end up dependent on solely the testimony of the victim who, whether you want to believe them and do believe them or not in court, when brought under cross examination, does not look great to a jury. You know, how many times are you arrested for prostitution?

That shouldn't matter but right away the jury goes hmm and it's you get one person to go hmm the case is over with that's fucked up it's fucked up if a girl is the problem to disclose how many times she's been arrested for prostitution any other word that comes out of her mouth i probably true she's gonna be honest i fucking agree with you so um yeah he says quote i think prosecutors at the time had been sensitized to the nature of sex crimes as violent crimes but had not but that had not filtered down to the cop on the beat yet so yeah that's they didn't have that yet they were just like he's fucking raping hookers who cares oh boy jesus that's disturbing so uh as all this

you know went uh off often the cases would crumble against him. One victim just disappeared and couldn't be found. Another refused to travel back into state to testify. The poor woman who was hung from a fucking truck hoist and everything beaten and sodomized there. She said he said that he took photos of this victim, the crow guy. She was badly bruised, and they found blood on DeLeesle's seatbelt from her and pieced together physical evidence from this to actually present a non-circumstantial case. However, it needed the cooperation of the victim. And as trial approached, she said she didn't want to and then went into a drug treatment program, so she couldn't be subpoenaed about it either.

So she didn't want any part of it. That that's how horrifying he is that's what i mean or if he's paying her off too who knows and crow says quote obviously she would lack credibility would she you know so the charges were dropped wow so when he was arrested for the murder of laurie he literally said oh no not that one that was his quote to the cops, which if I'm a cop, I'm going to get goosebumps when someone says that. That one. What are you talking about? Which one? Well, he was remarried. He had no problem finding women.

He was married, always had five girlfriends. This guy was always fucking women everywhere. He'd been married three times in all. He has three sons and a nine-year-old daughter at the time he's arrested. His wife at the time, Christine, was a widow when she met him. And he was mowing a neighbor's lawn. And they struck up a conversation and he asked for a date. Isn't that nice?

How romantic. She says, quote, I fell in love with him, but it hasn't been an easy marriage. No shit. Tell me more more he's a rapist and murderer so i would imagine that's probably not the easiest person to be married to i would read your book lady i would definitely do that oh jesus fuck man so she says her husband would go to church every week and you know present a very nice front but she said he also had another side he liked to drink beer a little too much, and he liked keeping a collection of nude

photographs of the women he slept with. Those were his two vices. Listen, I'm going to drink some beers, and I'm going to have pictures of chicks I banged. All right? You're going to have to fucking live with this. How many people have I been with? Well, let's see. Here's one.

Here's one. Here's another. He had a safe. That's gross. He had a safe that he kept specifically for the pictures that's disgusting that's creepy as fuck think about that like i i even kind of thumb my nose and look down on somebody who uh has like a lot of playboys you know what i mean like that's kind of a little creepy unless you're like keeping them for for uh monetary value yeah

yeah there's collectors there's that yeah but you've just got a bunch of fucking bin what are you jerking off the tits no you know no one's jerking off the playboy no one's jerked off the playboy since 1973 i'm sorry it's not happened i did in the 80s kind of like when you're 12 it doesn't matter you're just like i don't care what but any other time you're like what is that yeah but some so somebody that has a bunch of those, that's a little weird. But to have actual pictures of people that you took the pictures. Yeah. That's fucking weird. That's really weird.

Weird. Especially if you have pictures of some of them that you have fucking killed. Right. That's called a trophy. Right. That's even a weirder souvenir. You're reliving. You're reliving that with this creepy shit.

That's what I mean. This is fucking disturbing shit. He kept these people so he would get home from church. I'm going to have some beers and look at some nude pics of chicks. I bang. So leave me the fuck alone. Take the safe into the barn. Yeah.

And these are these are hard pics. These are, you know, on photo paper. Yeah, this is not like back in the day. This is what it is. So she said that she left him three or four times during the previous nine years because occasionally new photos would show up in the safe where he kept them so that's how he was she would know he was fucking other women because there'd be new nude pictures of women there that he took clearly so she did uh she also said when the police came and took them, I was so embarrassed. I was in some of those pictures.

And like we said, so was Laurie Gagneau. Also, what police found was a love letter from Laurie Gagneau to Wayne as well. That's a problem. That shows they were most definitely together. I guess after this all happened, when it first came up before the arrest, she left him. The new wife, as soon as she heard about it, took off. And then a new girlfriend moved in after that. Some other chick he was banging.

Somebody from the pictures. The police officer, one of the arresting officers said, quote, he is a strange man. You know what? I think that's an understatement. He's a strange man i think you can fucking put that in the bank here he must have a sweet anus oh oh boy it's a he can raise it with a flute so uh is he a monster yeah obviously well his mom says no really his mom says absolutely not um irene his mom she says no he's she stood

by him through all of his court battles by the way anytime he's ever in court all through florida all these things she's there all the time um she said that even her everyone's lying about her boy she said she's like mom fucking ma barker over here they're all lying on my boys seven she said fucking well she said that even her grandson were just lying about him everyone the women the police the prosecutors her grandson they're all lying about him he's a good good boy you leave him alone she said quote he didn't kill no one he's a good sort of person people like him he's in business he must be a good person or people wouldn't want his business she just said he can't be a murderer because people let him landscape their shit so he wouldn't be i mean one plus one equals two mom duh john wayne casey ran a kfc dude what the fuck very successful businessman What are we talking about here?

That's the craziest. This whole story, kid milking, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Mom, sometimes you got to hold him accountable. He must be a good person or people wouldn't want his business. This is why he's a piece of shit, Mom. You did this. You've never held him accountable since day one. Punch him in the fucking mouth, Mom.

Oh, my God. Maybe if you'd have kicked his ass, he wouldn't be fucking raping people. Something, yeah. Kicked his ass either more or less, one of the two. We're not sure which. I don't know what you did to him. There's a sweet spot in there somewhere,

but it's not whatever the fuck you did. Whatever you did was wrong. You did it wrong, sister. That's great. So his lawyer is Dan Warren. He says that he's going to bring character witnesses into this whole thing his attorney says that his client has quote had some liaisons with prostitutes in the area over the years but he doesn't believe that makes him the brutal person police describe hell of a description he's had some liaison uh His lawyer says that he's not the,

DeLiesel's not the scourge of Volusia County. Instead, he's the victim of law enforcement agencies, law enforcement's establishment that can't admit it's been going after the wrong man all this time. So they're going to take it out on him. He says, quote, I don't believe he's the crazed killer everyone depicts him to be. He's just an easygoing, hardworking old country boy.

What? They've tried to convict him and failed. So instead, they resort to character assassination. They've tried to convict him for rape. And you know what? They couldn't get him. So they're going to go for murder. He's an easygoing, hardworking old country boy.

Fuck you. What? That hardworking old country boy? Fuck you. What? That's the old country boy defense. You never heard of that one before? Yeah, you just pull it out. It's a special clause in the law, the old country boy defense. P.B. Gaskins was one of those. It's called the Duke boys statute, I believe.

Just a good old boy, never meanin' no harm. That's how it starts out is the the statute what the fuck are you talking about he's been in trouble with the law since the day they were born making their way murder and hookers on vermont all the way down to Florida. Wrap them up in a tarp and throw them out. Wrap them up in a tarp. Bound their hands and their feet.

I'm up to concrete and throw them down in the creek. I'm raping prostitutes that you wouldn't believe. I think that was a better song it's it's a pretty good okay obviously that's horrible but jesus christ man that's what's happening here that's what's fucking up character assassination holy shit he says he goes on to embarrass himself further he's a member of the bar this man uh the judicial system has worked its will against Mr. DeLiesel.

No, he'd be in prison if anything had worked as well. They've been trying. Yeah. And it's come up with a big fat goose egg. I think the presumption of innocence must come into play here. And Irene agrees. Mom agrees. She said, quote, he's a good sort of person.

Again, she had to add that. Yeah. So others say different shit. Let's see. She said, quote, he's a good sort of person. Again, she had to add that. Yeah. So others say different shit. Let's see. There's his son who says he murdered a woman. Lots of people who say he raped and killed them and did various horrible things, suspended them from truck hoists and sodomized them after beating them with truck tools and leather straps. After that, his kids don't like him much either.

No. straps um after that his all his kids don't like him much either no uh jeffrey deleazle who is one of his three sons says quote he can't stand me and i can't stand him we've had a long time bad relationship he was never no kind of father or husband he was a very violent person he would give us all a good trouncing in a minute so didn't like him some fascinating language from this man yeah that's some some country some yeah some old-timey country yeah give us a good trounce he wasn't no kind of husband or father he'd give us all a good trouncing in a country minute or in a new york minute so yeah he those kids don't like him um apparently wayne deleazle jr moved back to to vermont and that's when he met with state police and that's when this all came out uh basically here he said that you know he lived in florida

and while he lived in florida deleazle said his son said that he heard his father threaten his third and current wife by saying quote look you can end up just like lori did it ain't hard it doesn't take long that's how he threatened his wife so um yeah uh basically this police officer said he had been talking to the young deleazle for some time building up his confidence in him and basically got this after a while of talking to him and getting this gaining wayne jr's trust here uh now wayne jr says that he uh he heard his father heard them fighting. He heard his father threatened to kill Gagno, the whole deal. And so that's all the evidence.

He said that he told them to keep their mouths shut. Just to recap that here. He says, though, he was 11 at the time. And basically, he didn't think at the time he just wasn't independent enough to tell the truth of what happened is what he says. Now, along with the new information the photos the letter they think this is enough along with the physical stuff that's circumstantial but it max matches up um the prosecutor said wayne de leasel always picked his victims carefully he's been a wolf among sheep but i believe we can prove this one now um jesus christ well how about another brother? How about Adam?

What's he have to say about it? He says, well, he's a little bit okay with his father, but he doesn't like his brother. Really? No, he says his brother Wayne is full of shit. Junior? Yeah, the one who's bringing all this evidence. He says, Adam says Wayne's full of shit. He says, quote, he's known as a liar in our family.

You can take everything he says with a grain of salt. He says, quote, he's known as a liar in our family. You can take everything he says with a grain of salt. And he says that, yeah. But then they said, well, was your father a violent guy? Do you think he was capable of killing the neighbor? And he says, well, I suppose he would be capable, yeah. So he's lying. Yeah, he's a piece of shit, but he lies.

Oh, he's a rape and murderer. Don't get me wrong, but he's also a fucking liar. So just don't believe him here. He says that he thinks his brother's lying rape and murder. Don't get me wrong, but he's also a fucking liar. So just don't believe him here. Uh, he says that, he thinks his brother's lying about the implication. Um, he says, quote, I'm sort of surprised he remembers all that talking about his brother.

He said he's been in trouble no matter where he went again, talking about his brother. And he thinks that he's testifying and bringing evidence up to get himself out of legal trouble. That's his brother's theory here, which we'll find out. He has plenty of legal trouble. The brother his brother's theory here, which we'll find out he has plenty of legal trouble. The brother here, Wayne Jr. Now, the state's attorney said he made no promises to Wayne Jr. in exchange for testimony.

He has a burglary charge pending that was dismissed before Wayne Sr. was ever even arrested, which probably had to do with him coming forward with evidence. But either way, he said all of uh adam's speculation is interesting but it doesn't really add up to anything that's what the prosecutor said so the ganyo family didn't find out yet ricky while everyone else knew it ricky had no telephone in his house he did not know that they had arrested this guy and no the case was was closed now here um so the mother his mother ricky Ricky's mother, Norma Gagno, she said that he lived in a house without a telephone in Derby.

She said, quote, we just sent a letter to him tonight. The way for the mail. My son suspected him talking about DeLeesle. I thought the police had given up on it. I'm glad in a way that DeLeesle was arrested. Yet I hate to see what it could put Rick through dredging all this up again. Yeah, we thought he was going to have a nervous breakdown at the time. At the time, now, Ricky, by then, was a carpenter.

He remarried, had children, moved back up to Vermont. You know, he was doing fine. And Lori's sister said that she was grateful that the son came forward to testify against his dad now what's his defense i'd love to know his defense is because he was he came out going fuck that shit this is not thing he refused extradition from florida that's his first try to block this fucking thing just to get some time uh his attorney said the evidence has been gathered now is no better than it was 14 years ago, which is sort of true. Other than the kid saying he heard the threat of I'm going to kill you.

That's really the only difference. And they found photos in a letter now, too. That's a problem. Definitely. That's tough. That ties the victim to the person. But it doesn't give evidence that he killed her. It's not pictures of him murdering her.

It's not pictures of her dead body. She's alive when these pictures are taken. But they said the connections between DeLeesle and the bricks and the ropes and the tarp are easily refutable. That's the defense. And Wayne Jr. said he's changing his story simply because his father refused

to send him any more money. He said this is retribution. He said he called several times for money and Wayne refused. And suddenly this new information surfaces. It's clear to me where that comes from so uh he also says that uh the lawyer believes that police agencies are being agencies are being unfair and overzealous uh publicly discussing old unproven charges against his

client there he says strange thing about the judicial system it can never say we were wrong uh he says which is also true but i think i don't think they are wrong with this fucking guy uh they also said they hope that him being behind bars now can it will help them clear up some other crimes in the county that they think uh very specifically they said that uh there's other people that might come forward now who've been afraid to uh sergeant northrop here says Wayne DeLeesle has ruled by intimidation. And also, the investigator says that he's received from calls around the county from people who knew DeLeesle and had other leads. Oh, by the way, they are interested in him for two more and possibly three more murders in the Florida area.

They've been looking for these three unsolved murders. All these women bodies were found within a mile of his home in Daytona. That's too close. Three women found within a mile. That's way too fucking close. In Daytona? In Deltona, this is. In Deltona, Florida?

One of those. Yeah. Probably a trailery offshoot of Daytona. I don't know. One woman found Denise Dansby, 24 years old of fort worth texas disappeared from daytona boucher's motel uh eight months later her body was found by a hunter in the woods near his house there uh june 12th she disappeared 89 she was reported missing from osteen florida she arrived in volusia county for a four-day vacation what that's that's the most shocking thing in the

story but besides that why would you right on may 4th 1989 checked into the days in motel and she was not from the area and she vanished her skeletal remains were found december 9th 1989 off a cemetery road and her remains showed signs of violent trauma, and her death is ruled as a homicide. Obviously, three years ago, the body of an unidentified girl between 15 and 18 years old was found in Deltona's Lake Butler. She appeared to have been strangled. Weights were tied to her knees and neck the exact same way they were tied to Lori, by

the way, and the same wrap job. the exact same way they were tied to Lori, by the way, and the same rap job. 1984, Connie Sedum disappeared from her Deltona home. A year later, her remains were found in Dewey Boaster Park on Saxon Boulevard. The cause of death was undetermined, and he was seen cutting the grass right by her house the day she disappeared, like across the street, and it's also more than a mile of his house and he was across the street all of these they say they have no physical evidence connecting these cases to him but they're pretty fucking sure he's good for at least two of them

is he just an unbelievably handsome man not really would just talk to him out of the blue or is he like fucking just a predator he's a fucking predator and he knows which finds a weakness he knows which women to talk to he knows the ones who are maybe a little i don't want to say damaged but maybe have a little and it's because people are damaged i'm damaged you're damaged we're all done get some emotional baggage from the past which ones remember we brought up before like the old he-man figures with the you'd hit him and then it would have like one dent and you hit again i have like two dents he knows the ones where it's all dented to shit he can see that inside of people that's what predators do they sense out prey they know the wounded antelope

they can feel it they know the person who had a terrible childhood they know the person who had a fucking abusive father they know the person who's on drugs and has a problem and he can't hide it they knows that's no they can't they can sniff that shit out it's a sixth sense that predators have so gross it's fucking gross man so uh they said though there's still people who are have reluctance to talk about him there uh northrop said quote he's led a charmed life that's why people are afraid to talk about him even now they've seen this guy arrested before and he's always gotten off and they think this will happen this time too well uh let's keep it going the sheriff's investigators sent a tall dog team and searched all around his where he lives now dug up his entire fucking yard i mean

they were like who knows what the hell could be in there they didn't find anything on his property i think he's smart enough to not dump shit on this here yeah where i eat that's exactly right also too his wife is there so it's kind of hard to explain he's got three kids burying him in the yard hold on kids she sure looks like the girl in those pictures yeah wow that's weird nice digging good form so uh yeah uh the they said that they collected uh information and uh who the hell knows. Now, neighbors described him as a hardworking but rough man. One neighbor said, quote, he drank a lot and swore a lot, but he didn't bother us.

We didn't bother him. That's a good neighbor right there. Not my kind of guy, so I just didn't talk to him. Sounds good. Right neighborly. I like it. That's right neighborly. Investigators also worked up a psychological profile on De delisle compiled in the 1980s the profile indicated that uh he would become increasingly violent as years passed which seems

to be what happened this is like running out of ideas when you're holding up someone by a fucking truck hoist you're like hmm what else can i do what else can i do that's what i mean what else can i do i've done other shit so, after all this, they agree to a plea deal for him. They agree to manslaughter charges. What? Because it's been 14 years, and they say they're happy just to get anything. Anything. With a sentencing recommendation.

Now, what would your sentencing recommendation be for this guy? 15 to 30? Try 5 to 10. Get out! 5 to 10. That's what they want to give him for this. 15 to 30 try 5 to 10 get out 5 to 10 that's what they want to give him for this that's the agreement that they make they bring that to the judge and the judge says are you out of your fucking mind no way the judge says no yeah we're not doing that uh he hears because they have to then they tell the judge what the deal is then they tell him the facts of the case and after the judge hears the facts of the case the judge said why did the court

why did the state why did you guys decide to enter a plea agreement here i don't understand it and the state explained that it was a tactical decision motivated by the age of the case but also uh they also said the victim's mother was pissed off at the sentence too and so the court responded quote okay i'm going to be ordering a pre-sentence report. I think that this is an important in this case. And basically said, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not accepting this. We're going to figure something else out. The court then entered an adjudication of guilt and stated that it would set a sentencing hearing after it had a chance to review the report.

So now that shit is off the table, that five to ten. That is not a fucking option anymore. But they're accepting it and putting him in jail they're accepting the guilt for now yeah as an interim because it can be withdrawn so before the sentencing hearing the court uh the judge advised the counsels that they had that he basically the judge said i don't have i have reservations about accepting this plea agreement i don't like it i don't want to do it. Basically, they said that they, you know, the prosecutor's like, I don't know what you want from us. This is all we can do. So he says that the pre-sentence report the judge does to quote, gives me the advantage of having

the probation officer's input and to reflect myself at greater length on what an appropriate sentence would be. And he concluded that he did not believe the plea agreement calls for an appropriate sentence, given the nature of the offense. So September 1991, that's when he has to plea. And then he has to plea not guilty because he's got to change it because now he's got to have a trial. Right. And as he's walking out of court, one of the Gagnon family members said, quote, I hope you die. Good for you.

Suck it, sir. Suck it, sir. Suck it. Yeah. So the trial. Hope you die. Hope you die. Have a good one.

Just that's real simple. I'm sure they didn't say it like that. Hope you die. Thumbs up. Now, this trial was on court TV. Really? Live in 1991. One of the first? It was. Yeah yeah the court tv was brand fucking new and they were like this is the type of case that they were looking for because it was so

jesus look at it it's a mess uh so yeah this is uh uh here they said that uh i quote this was a reporter june grasso who was on there forever she said quote i lobbied for this one it's such an old case to be trying there's so many problems for both both the prosecution and the defense it's unique and also they wanted to see a son testify against their father that's fucking drama that's literally what they said it's a son testifying against the father of jesus christ that's holy shit yeah this is some shakespearean shit here this This is crazy. So he gave more than 40 pages of this was during the inquest. Originally, Wayne Senior had given 40 pages of testimony there, which is fucking crazy. And a shitload from the son, too.

But the son never mentioned the other shit there. So they bring that up in trial. Now, the son said he was afraid during the 1977 inquest because it was a big, scary thing. And he was 12. Right. So that makes sense. And yeah, they tried. They said that there's an issue.

The defense tried to raise the issue of DeLizzo's son and having any credibility because he's got a long criminal record as well. And that includes convictions for shoplifting and marijuana possession and bullshit like that. Teenage bullshit. lifting and marijuana possession and bullshit like that teenage bullshit so uh yeah state presented evidence here that the uh knots in the rope binding laurie's body were similar to the knots tied and other ropes that he had all around in his work in his house basically it was the same knot type which is circumstantial as fuck but it's when you add it to everything else unless it's a super unique knot you know what i mean yeah that's what i mean if it's some like navel knot or something that's what i mean if it's some like unique way but apparently it's the same way but it's just another piece basically um also there

the uh they present that the body was weighted down with cinder blocks painted with black paint in the same pattern as the blocks found in the foundation of his home he literally just took them out and put them in there and the body was wrapped in a black rubberized tarp the same pattern as the blocks found in the foundation of his home. He literally just took them out and put them in there. And the body was wrapped in a black rubberized tarp. The same ones he uses in his trucking business. So he says that the state is now basically, he says their case is fucked up. Because the state has lost the tarp and the hyoid bone that they had in a thing of formaldehyde. It's gone. it's been 14

years it's gone so he's saying that they they got rid of the shit on purpose basically because it didn't match their theory and the state's saying in 14 years we lose shit yeah so that's how that goes here it was uh he said he couldn't locate the bone dr harris there dr bj no boy it's not dr bj but that's from that film. That was Kendall. Yeah. So this goes all the way to the jury here, and the verdict comes in guilty of second-degree murder, which is way different than manslaughter. Much better. And they also say, you, sir, may fuck off 20 to 50 years. Great.

That's a little better, right? Okay. Hold on to that thought. Now, October 1991, Wayne Jr. is in trouble again. Oh, no. Now, let me ask you a question. He's changed his name legally now. He doesn't want to be associated with.

He's Wayne DeLeesle Jr. He doesn't want to be that. I don't blame him. You don't want to be fucking John Wayne Gacy Jr. No. Jeffrey Dahmer Jr. is not a good name. So, what would you change? Now, think about it.

It's 1991. You're trying to be cool. You're in your mid-20s. What name does he change it to? What would you think would be the coolest name to change your name to? Did he go with Axl Rose? No, no, no. What did he go?

It's an attempt at a rock star singer name. Is it? That's what's so funny. Did he go with Sebastian Bach? No, no, no. Not a real one. Like if he had to make up. Oh, he's picking his own?

Yeah. Johnny Rocket? Cody Coyote. Jesus one. Like if he had to make up. Oh, he's picking his own? Yeah. Johnny Rocket? Cody Coyote. Jesus Christ. His name is Cody Coyote. Is he in porn? He changed his fucking name legally to Cody Coyote. That is awesome.

That is the craziest part of the story. Fucking Cody Coyote. So, wow. Is he a cowboy? What is he? No, he lives in florida and in vermont and he does i found an article in the paper with him and some other drug guy who does drugs talking about how many drugs there are in vermont literally a picture of him going you could get anything around here heroin's

making a big comeback thanks cody coyote cody coyote and they don't even say wayne deleazle also coding they he's just Cody Coyote by then. They just quote him as 26-year-old Cody Coyote says. I'm like, what? Is it C-O-D-Y? C-O-D-Y Coyote. His name. C-O-Y-O-T-E.

Fucking Coyote. C-O-Y-O-T-E. Cody Coyote. That's awesome. That. You know? Gotta give him credit. One of myote. That's awesome. That. You know? Gotta give him credit. One of my favorites.

That's impressive. Yeah, I would say so. That's wild. So, he is in court for violating probation and a temporary restraining order for making contact with his estranged wife and threatening her. He's also charged with abusing alcohol because he's not supposed to be drinking because he's you know under probation for that yeah he pleaded no contest to a domestic abuse for an attack on his wife which was at the price chopper oh god which is a great store assaulted his wife at the grocery store cody coyote beat his wife up at the price chopper slapping women over flank steak holy shit he's ordered

to stay away from uh from her and from the price chopper as well which is hilarious he's going on domestic counseling and all that kind of shit here and uh he admitted himself to the medical center hospital of vermont and uh before that and had admitted that when he when he fucking slapped his wife around there he had consumed four beers four beers is all it takes to punch a girl i guess so for him that's all it is that's it going down now fuck 1992 june more trouble for wayne jr or is that his name no it's not it's yeah it's it's cody coyote cody coyote so uh yeah he's arrested again he's a cartoon character that's what it seems like like a cigarette hanging out of his mouth he drives a van and smacks women and smacks women he drives a van and wears like a

bandana around his neck right smoke cigarettes cody coyote so uh again he's arrested here after now uh after now assaulting his now ex-wife and her friend basically and then they her and then her and her friend another guy named bob chased him through the burlington streets for 20 minutes and the chase ended at the burlington probation office where he abandoned his car and went in there to fucking give up and say there's people chasing me um yeah he goes by the name cody coyote it says in here his ex-wife complained that he had called and harassed her and that she reported that he uh that uh they basically that cody coyote smashed her new boyfriend's windshield and slashed his tires so they were chasing him around and uh awesome yeah so uh now wayne senior in prison claims to have found the lord really he is he's good now he found the lord i mean it's all good let me out soul is clear everybody all cleared out we're good so uh 1994 the supreme

court gets involved because there's some uh shit. And the Supreme Court says basically that the judge at the time, Cooper Smith, that rejected the plea agreement originally here. Basically, the judge rejected the plea agreement, saying it didn't provide for an appropriate sentence given the nature of the offense. On a point of law, though, the court noted that the three year statute of limitations for manslaughter had run out by the time this was brought to trial so you couldn't charge them with manslaughter uh so by that but then so the last year of the vermont supreme court overturned that decision and the high court said that the jury should have the option of convicting delisle of manslaughter also so they reinstated it the initial plea agreement went forward and uh what ends up happening is they say oh boy you're gonna hate this here he's got to have a new trial okay the supreme court says the plea agreement which he pleaded to basically wasn't fucking

it wasn't fair it was all legally fucked up if he pleads to manslaughter he should have been allowed to plead a manslaughter but he was passed the statute and it was it's a mess new trial basically new trial ordered and he this time is convicted again of second degree murder not manslaughter murder so he's convicted now here's the deal they find the sentencing here uh as well jesus christ this is wild okay you sir yeah may fuck off 20 to 50 years right again but right but because of all the other shit and the original plea agreement and everything the judge modifies it all but seven and a half are suspended okay oh all but seven and a half years are suspended he's been in jail for five years i'm served also uh with time served that means two and a half years bye-bye mr deleazle you're a free fucking

man oh my god have a good one yeah we need him on the streets so uh yeah they uh accepted the plea agreement basically it was two different things it was 20 to 50 years in prison with all but seven and a half suspended for the murder or whatever they want to call it. Second degree murder and serve a sentence of 10 to 15 years after pleading guilty to perjury at his first trial. So but all of that is suspended and they're running it concurrent. So he's got seven and a half, seven and a half. He's already there. He'll receive credit of time served in jail since March 1990.

And yeah, the Vermont Supreme Court overturned it there. So they said, quote, in light of that and in light of some other evidentiary difficulties have developed since the last last trial, we opted to settle the thing and keep DeLeesle under control for what? A month. Yeah, no shit. So he did 64 months behind bars for murder for murder and god knows what else he did but definitely for murder um yeah he he must complete a treatment program for violent offenders oh gee for murderers for murder so what's the treatment for murder so don't tie her up and wrap her in a tarp and throw her in a river, right? We're not going to strangle people to death?

All right. Okay. Oh, I slipped. I had a slip up. You know what? I take it day by day. It's just a bad day today. So he must remain out of regular contact with correction staffers, which I would think you'd want to.

Pretty easy. And he must keep out of trouble. If he gets in trouble, he could be forced to serve the entire 20 to 50 but that's if he gets in trouble um yeah so he got in trouble that's what i'm saying repeatedly now the the prosecutor said uh this oh no i'm sorry his his offense defense attorney now said quote this seemed like a reasonable disposition for all concern i bet it's reasonable for you this was a very very difficult case for wayne oh i bet must have been tough on him he denies having done the killing he's now admitted that he was involved in disposing of the body and will at some point give a full statement of what

happened so now he's even admitted see before you could go there's a chance maybe he didn't he admits that he helped dispose of the fucking who Who would you help dispose of fucking shit of your? Yeah. He says, I helped with my stuff, with the tarp and all that. That was my stuff. But I didn't kill her. I just helped someone dispose of a bomb. A nice guy.

That's what I do. So he is released at 802 a.m. On July 19th of that year. He walks out and right there to meet him, by the way, standing right outside waiting is Richard Gagneau, Laurie's husband, said, quote, you know who I am. I'm going to follow you like wind in a hurricane. That's his quote to him. Oh, I'm going to fucking on your ass, dude.

Wind in a hurricane. Wind in a hurricane. You turn around. I'm going to be there, bro. I'm going to give you the most Florida thing that's ever been said. Like wind in a hurricane. That is the most Florida thing. I did some time down there. bro. I'm going to give you the most Florida thing that's ever been said. Like wind in her. That is the most Florida thing. I did some time down there.

Not in jail, but I spent some time in Florida. July 21st, 1995, Wayne wants to move back to Florida from Vermont, where he did his time. And Florida's like, no, we don't fucking want you. But they have exchange programs with these states in between. So legally, they have to take him, but they're trying to block him because they don't want him. Like anyone else will take, but not him. They said it's a rare instance in which one state rejects the interstate compact that these states have.

You got like a habitual speeder or something? Yeah, we'll take that guy. You got somebody with a bunch of DUIs? They'll fit in down here. We can clean them up. We don't care about it. The roads are a mess down here. We don't care so florida wants to legally block and people are protesting one guy here says uh there are a lot of elderly women elderly people living here this frightens

them well no shit you got somebody that fucks chickens we'll send them to tampa yeah but they've run the streets free to your heart's desire so uh one person here that was a person who lives not far from the house where this guy wants to move into said that another person from the neighborhood ben smith said quote i will get a gun i will not live in fear this i will shoot this motherfucker living in fear yeah i'll get a gun okay i'll shoot him uh her his mother though irene said she needs her son she says that uh uh her son plans to be a prison counselor and chaplain when he gets out she says quote i'm almost 80 years old and i'm sick and i want him here to take care of me he served his debts to society quote are we in russia that that people can't go from one state to another? When they're fucking murderers, yes.

That's not right. This lady is the most insane person we've ever fucking come across. That's his mom. That's his mom. Wow. What did you do? What did he do? What the fuck happened?

Why are you so nice to him? Oh, my God. So then he's had to keep moving. No one wants him around. In the two weeks after he was released, he attempted to settle in seven different communities, both in New York and Vermont, and was driven out by community reaction. In two weeks, seven different places came after him like he was Frankenstein. That's every two days, James. Yeah.

Get the fuck out. Yeah, they do that. every two days james yeah get the fuck out uh yeah that's they they do that uh he reportedly by the end of the week was spending time in a homeless shelter because he had nowhere else to fucking go uh after a new arrangement though because he was going to move to florida drew questions you know whatever so the vermont guy here who is this he says quote this is the uh quote we will treat wayne uh delisa like the other 6,000 probationers currently living in Vermont communities. That's all the law allows us to do. That's the acting commissioner of some prisoner shit there.

So August 1995, Jeffrey DeLeesle, the brother who said, I can't stand him. He can't stand me. Dies in a motorcycle accident. Like three weeks after his dad gets out of jail. He dies in a motorcycle accident oh jesus like three weeks after his dad gets out of jail wow he dies in a motorcycle accident at 4 45 p.m uh he alcohol was involved he was drinking our traffic and he's drinking drinking in rush hour traffic and uh wayne never gets picked back up again really uh i don't know where the fuck he is. I do know he's alive. Really? He's still alive. Do you know where he is? He's 78 years old.

Wow. And looks like Florida, but who knows? I mean, we don't know, but I don't know if he's changed his name to Cody Coyote Sr. or what. God, I hope so. If you run across this guy, I would say steer clear. Let's just say that. I mean, hey, alleged, alleged, blah, blah, blah, legal coverage. Steer fucking clear. My grandpa's 80, and he can still kick ass so that's what i mean i can help hold

it together he's hopefully his dick doesn't work anymore maybe he stopped at that point yeah just out of commission do you want me to call my grandpa his cock right out of commission his probably works i want this guy's to just not have worked and haven't even thought about my penis in 20 years just it's a useless stop working in prison hasn't started up yet useless as a tits on a boar you know what i'm saying so uh yeah that's that that my friends by the way is uh enosburg vermont now i said it's got an ending that sucks like a bad ending because the guy's out in four years that's kind of crazy and he's out and about and that's a little bit scary but i do have some good news thank you guys so much by the way we kind of we kind of opened up about our personal lives a couple weeks ago and problems we've been having and i got really just an

outpouring for about you guys from you guys about my grandmother uh being on our deathbed a few weeks ago there and everything and i have some good news to report somehow she is like doing better now they thought she's 93 they thought she wasn't going to make it through the night she had pneumonia yeah she couldn't breathe she refused oxygen she wasn't she hadn't eaten in three days her blood pressure was dropping to nothing she has clips in her heart valves from an operation they were all failing so she's got no oxygen she can't do anything not going to make it through the night somehow in the next two days her fucking lungs cleared up she had pneumonia and can't do anything and wouldn't take ox there's no way for that to happen so the doctor said i don't know we think

she's a zombie pretty much so she's either still alive and made a miraculous recovery or she is a zombie person waiting to eat all of our brains. Either or, though, somehow she fucking carries on and is feeling better now. She just needed a shot of olive oil. She just, yeah, she's feeling better now. I don't know what's going on.

She was a shot low, Jeff. I guess so. We fucking checked her out and put the dipstick back in there, loaded her up, and she's fine, I guess. I don't know, what the fuck. She's an Italian starfish.

She just regenerates. You know, I don't even know what to say about it but thank you guys for all your thoughts and everything like that i that's a great news for me and i thought you guys would like it too because you guys seem to really have taken to grandma there and uh yeah i don't know she's a fucking she's tough man she's a marvel of modern science the doctor literally doctor went i don't know we i don't know how that happened my medical he's he said like i don't know what there's pneumonia there's no way that that clears up in a woman who's that old and sick and can't move and won't take oxygen like you just you die like bruce willis and death becomes yeah it makes no sense you're dead i mean you got no heartbeat you got no pulse you got here you are, though. You're talking to me. That's what I mean. I don't get it.

She's a zombie. That's what you're going to do. So anyway, if you like the show, let us know about it. Get on Apple Podcasts, that purple icon, and tell us that you like the show by giving us five stars. It helps a lot. You don't have to. You do have to say something, but I don't care what you say.

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Our voicemail is 602-759-0606. Internationally, I'm not sure how that works but you can figure that shit out some shit you guys know that shit i don't know anything there so call anywhere else no no no so uh yeah with that said all that out of the way now that you know how to do it i need to know jimmy the names of the greatest people in the world tell me the names of the people who would never bind me in a tarp and throw me in a river. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Rebecca Manners, Joanne Ahern, Reagan

Schalkley, Austin Parsons, Dallas Grimm, Brendan Keene, oh, Chloe, not Chloe Rass, Alex Lessie, L-E-C-Y, what? That's not a word. T Sandison.

Jules Harris. Kate with no last name. Les McKenna. Bennett Taylor. Joe Dawson. Megan McDermott. Taylor Bean. Trevor Scott.

Ryan Guest. Kevin Spilker. Thank you, Kevin. And his family. I'm not going to put out his information. But thank you, Kevin. I really appreciate it. Susanna Platt. Lisa Coltrane.

Jackie Sukup. Jordan Bennett. Tracy Mitchell. Leslie Kane, Lindsay Redmond, Stephen Rood, Carrie Lombardi, and Mandy Knight. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. We really can't do it without you.

You guys are heroes. Other producers this week are Ben Kuhl, Senora Feinstein, The Fridge, Caitlin Kennedy, Carla Gale, I think that's what I did, Kim in Burbank. Alex Mercury. Marshall Hawarca. Rebecca Atkins. Teddy O'Donovan. Bailey with no last name. Michael. God damn it.

Michael Hutton. That's what that is. Amanda Nacion. Probably not. Cecilia Craig. Eric Berg. Patrick Mack. Brandon Wegner.

Kesa Diaz. Another one. Thank you. I got you. Lisa Gibbs. Jimmy Lynch. I think that is. Gross Jambone. I don't know if that's right.

Dylan Menefee, like Kurt. Like Kurt, yeah. Ron Cummins, like Dan. Batokavis. What is that? Buttocks Oves. Batoksuus. Buttocks Batuxus.

Oh. I'm doing my best. Christer or Chryster. Samuel Moore Moore, Phoebe, Phoebe Taylor, Justin Love, Jaina, Jaina Young. No, Jaina Young, Arion, Arion, Arion Ford. I think Robert Gordon, Julian Oliva, Olivas. I live in a Spanish state. There's so much wrong with you, Jimmy. Spoken here. I'm an idiot. state. There's so much Spanish spoken here. I'm an idiot.

Ellie Currence, I think. Ross Smith. Benedict Hutchinson. Brooks. Christy Kelly. JT Bright. Jay Penninga. Kelsey Cunningham.

Shelby Kellerman. Sarah Williams. Shane Boyd. Sandra Kaus. Christopher White. Jorge Orta, I think, Aroa. I don't know what I did. It's a T or an O. One of the two.

Those don't look alike. They're oftentimes misconstrued. Jessica Levitt, Justin Grish, Christopher White. I said that. Steph with no last name. Lulu Edmondson, Josh Guido, Battery Flaccid. What? Karina Statalil? last name lulu edmondson josh guido battery flack flaccid what uh karina stat uh stat uh stat a stat a little jennifer campbell natasha harris uh kip soosley laura timberlake courtney

shoe show burl courtney kimberly christina mcwilliams riley, I think, Miles, Jordan Cooper, Karen Reynolds, Samantha Crutchfield, Jenna Katsaras, Wendy Steins, Paul Hicks, Kristen Gentine, Bob Hope, probably not the one. I would assume not. I think he's dead. I don't think he would be able to. Sarah Yanez. It would be nice if he did.

Right. John Luke Tolfrey, Rick Jacobson, joanne sanderson kristin gentine i said that courtney kimberly uh trevor canar ben would know last name rodney haruff kim um mccully olivia meese i think alicia utter nick would know last name jolene flath britney jones i think that yeah i just scribbled that out nathan eba carminaina Ramirez, Jordan Ibunga, Jonathan Leahy, David Kvitner. Nope. Kvitkick. Nope.

Fuck. Carlos Suarez. Two tries. Willamine Witte, Renee Quebman. Fuck. Ewan Urquhart. Sabrina Nelson. Brianna Syracuse. That can't be right, but it looks right.

Christina Rittenhour. Vicki Brenner. Bronner. Libby Baltz. B. Taylor. Michael Jamesball. Chloe K. B.C.

Christina Mitchell. Jake Yates. Beth with no last name. Nina Naska. Tasha Walter. God damn it. Mike. Micah Oltman. Montana Naska. Tasha Walter. God damn it. Micah Oltman. Montana Gamer.

Carl Shepard. Holly Levinson. Craig Langstone. Langston. Lori Riley. Harley Plummer. Turd Ferguson. What?

Slick Rick. Jennifer with no last name. Chris Fleulinger. Flewelling. Flenlinger? Flewelling? Flewelling? Flenling?

Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Flenling? Nancy Pierce, Patricia Durand, John Dixon, Rebecca Handy, Julia, nope, Zuka. That's Zuka, not Julia. Thank you, John Dixon. Truly. Jimmy can pronounce your name. Brian Goger, Matt Siegel, Jenny Sue, David Prince, Matthew, no, that's Megan Ruff, Madeline with no last name, Roger with no last name, Jessica Sridhar, Kelly Mitchell, Caitlin Thara, fuck, Corey, is it Corey Branham, I think, Sarah Gendy, Lauren Hilbert, Adrian Thompson, Daniel King, Cole Ochersey, I think, Mark

Moreau, Shiloh with no last name, Maddie Levine, Alfred Jensen, Bob Henry, Bryant Clayton, Katie Schmitz, Rob Brown, Diana Anzarena, Bianca Elena, Tony Cassano, Carlos Bueno, Shane M., Catherine Maldonado, Nicholas Combat, I think. I don't know what I wrote. I'm sorry. Jen Stillman, Anna Rodrock. Fair. Joel Sanchez. Jake Antonio. Antoniononio. You got this, Jimmy.

I'm trying. Anna Hill. Come on, baby. Eric Berg. Brandon Maeg. Mog. Kristen Mudrick. Mucho Macho.

Josh Wellington. Jenna Ulrich. Just throw strikes, baby. Evan Ferguson. Christina. No, it's Christian Collins. Good eye. Good eye.

We're almost there. Good eye. Good eye. God damn it. Yvette Flores. Poking over the second baseman. We're almost there. Good eye, good eye. God damn it. Yvette Flores. Poking over the second baseman's head. Little contact out there. Kiefer Sloby and Catherine Lopez.

Matthew Fernbacher, Joseph Merkel, Carissa Slater, April Hughes, Sean Griffiths, John Mize Jr., I think, Kelly Snapp. We want a pitcher. Brent Piles. Jocelyn Vega. Travis with no last name. Heather Campbell. Dominique with no last name.

Rushbaugh Shaw. Greg Huffman. Mack with no last name. Colleen Edwards. Brian Rinaldi. Melody Knapp. Dan White. Cole with no last name.

Jason Adams. Carl Doyle. Ashley with no last name. Meredith King. Nick Leslie. Aether Explorer, I think, Christopher Heyman, Liz Krajewski, Oleandra, nope, Oleandra, Juzniewski, probably not, Elizabeth Judy, Michael Yelton, Mark O'Donnell, Samantha Ludwig, Matt French, Renee Denny, Mary Lanners, Drew with no last name, Aiden Finnell, Megan and Jeff May, Mariah Noosh, Brianna Romero, Kaylin Bancroft, Emma Larson, Alice St. Quinton, Neil Brown, Christina Hambleton, Alex Jordan, Nate Matt, Matt Presley, Barbara Messinger, Brad Applegate, Olivia Gibbs, nate matt matt presley hey uh barbara what is that barbara messinger uh my singer meissner

brad applegate olivia gibbs jana no jeanette molder candy with no last name jack averill chris de young mangia penny uh kelly stoskov stoskop lakeland brown chris conkey jo Joe Calipu, what? Magni or Mane? Monye? Wallacher? I don't know. Michelle Hodges, Jonathan Phillips, Joe Galapagos, Chris Conkey, Kristen Wilcox, Christina Hambleton, Jessica Obie, Mike Miller, Amanda Hamilton, Dan Trevelidge, JN with no last name, Adam Trunnell, Michael Christensen, Colorado plant lady.

I know it. Amanda Hamilton. I said that. Kevin with no last name. Laura Jones, Don Solomon, Solomon Wittes, Aaron Johnson, Chris McConville. Nope. Yes. McConville.

Sarah McAnally. Last home stretch. Hey, Katie Grace, Katie Nixon, Rob Lanto, Rebecca Etringer, Dorian Helms, Hotshot Motors, Samantha Brown, Kendall Cole, Stephen Hayward, Peyton Meadows, James Marder, Alison Horrocks, Thomas Smith, Claire Meakin, I think, Christine, nope, Christy Monigold. God damn it, Joshua Blair, Ryan Sheehan, Justin and Sarah, Dakota Harrington, Brandy McNeil, McNichol, Seth Spears, Dylan Banfield, Jill Lovan, Philippa Delgado, I think, Matthew Henkel, Adam Apple, Julia Evara, Terrence Schaub, Henkel, Adam Apple, Julia Evara, Terrence Schaub, Janice Hill, Patricia Arcand,

Iron Tree Craftworks, Sarah Becht, Melissa Rack, Ashlyn Lang, and Bailey. You guys, we can't do it without you. You're goddamn heroes. Thank you! Thank you, everybody. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Fuck you guys are the best. We really have the fucking most loyal,

awesome, great listeners. You guys are so fucking great. Thank you for so you guys are active are so fucking great thank you for what you do and for hanging out with us and for giving a shit about our lives is you know half as much as it's for everything it's the understanding what we do and understanding this show and thanks for being a part of it and thanks for uh uh not taking life so goddamn serious exactly or death for that matter because you know what yeah i you know i just a big part of this yeah that's what i mean i just talked about my grandmother and was if she was if she had died i'd be making just as many jokes so it's just the way it is because

that's how you get through things if you want to get through it i mean it's yeah you want to sit and mourn and do that and give people their respect absolutely but then after that you also have to carry on and the best way to do that is to fucking laugh that's what we're trying to do here death is dark and so it's fucking dark that's it's all dark that's i mean what if they wanted to get a hold of you and find you and tell you that you're not dark i'm over there on social media you guys know where it is and uh that's where i'm at so find me he's over there tell me something dark where are you they know where i'm at copy and paste my name she'll find me you know how to fucking do it you know how to find people yeah i mean it's not like i don't know he didn't give me his address you'll find me it's on there

you can find my address yeah you know you do that so that said everybody my God, this was a crazy-ass episode. Hope you guys found this interesting and weird and kind of, yeah, it felt like you're walking through the woods and there's, like, sinkholes you step in every once in a while. It's not great. But you know what? So what? I think we told it very well, though. We can't help how the story goes. We didn't write it.

This is just what happened. So I don't know. Until next week, everybody, it's been our it. No. This is just what happened. So I don't know. Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.