Small Town Murder - #182 - Two Shot Glasses Of Blood, Please in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee

Episode Date: July 30, 2020

This week, in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, a mystery grows around a local woman, found brutally murdered in her own bed. The case goes cold for over a year, until a very interesting story emerges, telling a tale that is both fascinating, and horrifying. A tale of petty revenge, and a blood ritual of sorts, from an unlikely person, a 14 year old girl. The full story leaves mouths open is shock, but will that be enough for a conviction?? Wall to wall crazy!! Along the way, we find out that Dollywood is a good post-murder meet up, that there is no such thing as a "relationship" with a 14 year old, and that if you're going to make a toast, use booze! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, a mystery grows around a woman found brutally killed in her own bed until someone comes forward with a horrible tale of crazed violence and blood-filled shot glasses. Welcome

to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, everybody. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us once again. We're excited.

Hope you enjoyed last week's crazy Vermont episode. What a tale. Youth milking and everything else in there. A wild tale, right from the things to do. Absolutely gross. But this week we have wild. I don't even know how to explain it So I'm not even going to try It's just absolutely insane

But special announcement This right here It's episode 182 Regular episodes of Small Town Murder And we have 218 as of this week Episodes of Crime and Sports Making this This is it

Our 400th podcast episode Wild Which is pretty cool. We're going to have the 200th episode of Small Town Murder pretty soon here, but this is our 400th episode of regular podcasts. So we would like to say thank you and make this kind of listener appreciation week and just thank you guys. We're not going to do the usual house cleaning at the top of the show, you know, reviews and Patreon and all that shit.

That's all fine, but that's all for us. This is for you. We just want to say thank you guys so much for hanging out with us now for over three years with Small Town Murder. And if you listen to Crime and Sports as well, and you should, that as well. And just thank you guys for everything you've done. We've enjoyed this ride

so much. Obviously, it sounds like we're giving like a, we're leaving into the darkness now, but no, we're not stopping at all, but we just want to definitely just take a second here to say thank you guys. We've enjoyed everything you've done for us. The live shows have been amazing. We love meeting you.

We've just had a great time with this, and the interaction with you guys has been so much fun, and we just can't thank you guys enough for hanging out. We never did one of these in the apartment. No, no, no. This was was we started this in the studio and uh yeah absolutely so this is in this one yeah it's working out yeah this is good stuff and thank you guys for everything honestly you've you've followed us and we just can't thank you enough so uh that's what we're gonna do quickly the disclaimer it's a comedy show it is this is a comedy podcast now that doesn't mean the stories

aren't real we're not not making up crazy stuff. Even though somebody said in a review that a lot of our cases aren't real. James, 22 of them. I was like, what are you talking? Yeah, you just came to me with that. I'm like, huh? 22 shows aren't even real. There's hundreds of thousands of people listening.

You don't think any of them are Googling along with us going, huh? What is it? This is nowhere to be found. I don't even know where that is. No, they're all real. Everything is real. All the facts are real. We don't make know where that is. They're all real. Everything is real. All the facts are real. We don't make anything up for comic effect or anything like that.

There's enough craziness that goes on around murders that you really don't need to do that at all. 22. Those 20. Yeah, obviously. So with all that, I mean, honestly, we just this is a better way to go about it for us. We're not the type of people that can tell a murder story and solemnly talk. And then her head was removed from her body and placed into a hole in the ground. That's kind of depressing to us.

And murder, it's all happened. So why not try to make it a little less depressing? Obviously, the death part's depressing, but the stuff around it, try to have some fun with it. What we do, though, and what we try to go out of our way to do is we do not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why? Because we're assholes. Yes. But we're not scumbags jimmy that's right so if that sounds good to you we're gonna have a good time if it doesn't you should probably you should probably go that's go find something else too yeah there's plenty of stuff where they'll tell you you know then you cut her head

off and if you think that's more respectful than a couple of jokes well that's up to you but i mean we do our best and it's not as bad as you think. Put it that way. So for everybody else who wants to have a good time and also hear an absolutely horrific story. Let's hear it. I think it's time to sit back and shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. For a ride. Let's go down a trip. Yeah. Let's do it. We're coming from Vermont last week all the way up toward Canada. Right. We're going down into the south this week. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. We're coming from Vermont last week, all the way up toward Canada. Right. We're going down into the south this week.

Hell yeah. Mid-south land here. We're going to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. I've heard of it. Pigeon Forge. Yeah. Why have I heard of that? That sounds like, you'll know.

You'll find out. It's in north central Tennessee. We're about three and a half hours away from Nashville. Right. There. About 45 minutes outside of knoxville that's kind of right outside of there but up in the hills though this is like i'm thinking of valley forge up in the smoke something with a fucking something with a forge i don't know i

can't believe there's more than one forge there's all sorts of forges all sorry i mean pigeon obviously is the one that you want to name it after the worst bird. What do you say? What happened at Valley Ford? The worst. That was that's George Washington. Yeah, that's Revolutionary War. Yeah, that's you've heard about it in school. I said a word.

Yeah, I'm sure they gave you that one. This is different. I'm so sorry. So this is about four hours to Dixon, Tennessee, which was episode 142. Our last one, which was a big search for a missing head. If you remember, that was a crazy ass episode. This town has multiple mottos, like three of them. Real?

Oh, real mottos. Yeah. There's so many. Why make any up? Put it that way. There's a surplus. One of them, this is on the sign when you go in, is, oh, I'm sorry. No, this is the other one.

Years of forging progress. That's one. That's on their website like on their seal that's that one then on their sign it says the family vacation hub oh okay and then there's another one and this is like their main motto is quote the center of fun in the smokies so yeah i can't wait to hear it oh boy don't you want to go to the smokies jimmy just in the oh man history of this town obviously we want to just talk very briefly about the history but pigeon forge i have to know why the fuck it's called pigeon forge let's be realistic here uh pigeon forge it comes from an iron forge built by a guy named isaac love and he built it around 1820 and the name of the forge referred to its location along the little pigeon river oh there was that so uh yeah the name comes from apparently the river comes from flocks of pigeons that frequent the banks there and hang

out so they started calling it little imagine all the shit gross want to go sit on the riverbank it's covered in shit we can't so many pigeons have shit here that we have to name it just give it to the pigeons let's go to a park and feed the ducks where there's duck shit all over the it's theirs now it's the pigeons it belongs to them don't know what to tell you so uh now in the early 20th century this was an isolated place it's up in the mountains very isolated no major roads going to it this is some yeah this is like when the census guy came they would shoot at him and shit like this is that kind of thing very does anybody from a tarantino movie from here probably well no actually not but

other people are from here as we'll talk about here also not a lot of bridges the only bridge here the only major water crossing was a string of uh of them along the little pigeon river otherwise there wasn't a lot of bridges transportation is hard around here back then it was just kind of left out to its own devices and electricity it took a long time to get to here and these people lived like you know charlie buckets for a long time it's's not great. Finally, though, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park opened in 1934

and the Tennessee Valley Authority, which was under Roosevelt, trying to get electricity and basically bring these people into the 20th century or at least the 19th, something, at least the late 19th,

trying to drag them along, figure out how many people were there, get them electricity, maybe a phone. Here's a radio, possibly you could pick up a signal here and there and find out what's going on in the world. And some longer pants. Yeah, some longer pants, because those are the ones from when you were eight, I can tell, because they're not cut off. Right.

Those are not dreaded off. No. It's just, you outgrew them. They're just very tight around your upper calves. You're longer than those aren't yeah and i don't think you're into capris no so uh but now by the 50s though there was all sorts of improvements this is when all really they were working the roads they started in the 30s to make transportation easier but in the 50s the highway system came in and they really concentrated on roads that led to the establishment of some campgrounds and some lodges and shit like that. And then eventually, though, there was a commercial boom here.

Oh, as you can imagine. I mean, the place sounds like it's a draw. Why would you not go there here? So the land resources here for a long time were controlled by a few local families who would thwart attempts by outside businesses to take advantage of any of this shit. Yeah. People, they try to buy like a big swath of land to put something up and they wouldn't sell it to them. They were from the outside. So it was a very, very.

Hatfields, McCoys, McCoys, and McCoys. That's it. It's just all McCoys. It's all the town of full of McCoys. And everyone else is the Hatfields. Five families. Yeah. So in 1961, Pigeon Forge Incorporated and a couple of brothers from North Carolina opened a Rebel Railroad in the town's Middle Creek area.

This was like an amusement park. Yeah. It was called Rebel Railroad. The railroad simulated a ride on a Confederate steam train that was under attack by Union soldiers during the civil war what the fuck kind of ride is that hilarious come on kids what the fuck is that who's amused let's go defend the slave trade and get shot at for it what do you say what the fuck are we doing what is that a lot of pride yeah yeah uh this would be this This was playing upon the centennial anniversary of the war.

It was 100 years from the Civil War. And after the Union assault was beaten back, the railroad came to a stop at a mock frontier mountain town, complete with a blacksmith shop, a general store, and a saloon. So they made a whole little ride out of it. They're romanticizing it. Oh, yeah. And acting like they won. You win. You win that battle.

Yeah. Yay. We win. Huh? Hysterical. Yeah. This is. romanticizing it oh yeah and acting like they won you win you win that battle yeah yay we win huh hysterical yeah this is i wanted to confederate confederate fantasy camp over here is what's going on here i want to go ride that ride and then laugh my balls off at the end at the end we go oh no none of this happened so uh yeah now the civil war centennial shit started to die down a little bit here so they decided to rename it same thing but they renamed it gold rush junction and this this uh it was worked in with a wild west theme instead of a civil war theme you know because we were kind of pushing the late 20th century it's kind of played out at that point so let's see what

says wild west more than tennessee obviously that's the thing that's clearly so uh they also had a of the rides in north carolina that so they were kind of moving rides back and forth so gold rush junction was very successful and then that made these people they ended up buying a log flume amusement ride yeah there so they could they erected that log ride gotta have you gotta elect your erect your log yeah that's what they say here in 1967 threatened to get people wet you never get wet on that ride never no once in a while you might get some your glasses will get foggy yeah that's it otherwise you got nothing so according to the park tourist brochure the ride was quote brought to gold rush junction from the new york's Fair, where it was one of the most successful attractions.

So 1969, there was some zoning shit. And the reason of that, that's interesting, is it caused Art Modell, the owner of the Cleveland Browns, to buy Gold Rush Junction. Really? Yes. He then sold it to some guys who owned most of Branson, Missouri. That whole crazy country western old person weird shit that goes on there. They renamed the park

Silver Dollar City, which is after their theme park in Branson, I guess. This was the, they had an Ozark Mountain theme in the Branson location and they reapplied that as an Appalachian theme in Pigeon Forge.

So hillbillies is what they... Everyone, let's all simulate hillbillyism. Isn't that fun? And people were into that. That's what got people here. In 82, they had the Knoxville World's Fair, which I didn't even know existed. Knoxville's got one. I feel like the World's Fair had lost its steam by then. It was like Paris and New York.

And I think Seattle had one in the big places. I don't know about Knoxville. No, that was probably last on the list. Probably down pretty far. Yeah, I would imagine next year. Little Rock. All right. Jesus Christ.

So it burned out before it got to Jacksonville. Yes. Yes. So Pigeon Forge initiated an aggressive economic plan that was centered around theme parks, outlet malls, and live music venues. And so they did that. By 1987, there was four outlet malls, and the outlet malls provided 44% of the town's gross revenue by the early 1990s here. Those things really fucking draw people in they do that are driving by we stopped on the way to california to look at shit i had to because we needed a shirt

yeah something i got some shit on a shirt yeah we needed to stop and get a shirt because we were doing stand-up that night in la that was i didn't have one no yeah we were like uh-oh whoops this is a problem we forgot it or some shit i don't remember what happened. I don't know. We needed a shirt. We were one shirt. We were a shirt shy. So this place draws, Pigeon Forge draws about 11 million visitors every year. Come here. Really? Yeah.

There's something very special there that I'll tell you about in a minute. Did you say 11 million? 11 million. You'll see in a minute. Hold on. So reviews here. Let's get a few reviews. They're very brief and very short

and all kind of the same. So here's a two star. Very generic chains usually close early. Next one, two star. Basically all minimum wage jobs. This is a theme park based economy, by the way. It's very tenuous. Yeah.

Two stars. As a tourist town, there's limited opportunity for jobs. Most of what is around here are minimum wage minimum wage jobs in retail or restaurants there just isn't a lot here another one i grew up in pigeon forge and i enjoyed the tourism as a child but in the future i would like to see growing establishments for locals then another one in my immediate area there's not a lot of

nightlife options you have to go to knoxville to get that kind of stuff that kind of that kind of stuff the nightlife options you know that kind of stuff you know the seedy shit yeah gonna go on a real vacation we ain't got here in pigeon forge so uh populations climbed here they had 1800 people in 1980 and right now they have 6,147. Okay. So that's a pretty good jump up in population. Yeah. Now, there's a few more married people than normal, and I think that's because the average age is a little higher.

It's 45.8, and there's a ton of people that are 65 and over. This is like you live here and stay here or move away to find a job because otherwise you work at a fucking theme park or in a restaurant. Yeah. If you want to have a job that you can make a decent living at you can't stay here right unless you want to own the theme park or you retire there or you retire there or you just stay there right from before you retire yeah until you retire uh way more females than males because there's so many old people and you outlive us you fuckers so that's that uh race of this town not surprisingly pretty white it sounds white

doesn't it it's a tennessee it's yeah well there's a lot of black people in tennessee yeah but not in the country not out here some towns but not this one nashville's got some yeah this is a lot yeah this is uh and memphis you know there's black people there this is uh white people here 83 percent black people 0.5 percent wow yeah's that's sounds like that's on purpose that's that's super low for a tennessee town that shit's on purpose like that's not yeah they're avoiding it and i feel like there's been some uh we've talked it's not yeah i don't think it might not be the most inviting place possibly 0.0 percent asian not having any of that either 10.1 percent hispanic though so that's

where you're getting a little bit of native american to 1.8 percent religion here uh usually 50 50 here 53.2 which is not shocking for the uh south and most of the people 32.7 percent of the people here are baptists as we know baptists are the cath Catholics of the South and the Mormons of the East. Right. However you want to do it. A couple of Catholics, a Pentecostal here or there. 0.0% Jewish. They're like, I don't know about the whole, I don't know. We read about the Civil War theme and everything.

We're just going to pass on it. We're just going to move on to the next town. You guys still got trains, though. Yeah. Well, yeah. They do bad shit. Yeah. Train rides are no fun we don't like

so not not good at all so uh 0.4 percent islam as well which i'm surprised there's any muslims here honestly i'm surprised there's anybody but baptist yeah it seems like this would be a you know the town would fight between baptist and pentecostals till the death i don't see a draw for it no uh politically this is a very conservative town. Last election, or county, 17.3% voted Democrat in the last election, 79% Republican. So it is very conservative up in the hills here. Unemployment rate's about normal for now, but all those parks, I don't know how well they're doing at this moment. Give it some time.

Household income is low, though. Rest of the country, it's about $57,500. Here it is $35,573 as your household income. Like I said, a theme park-based economy does that. 45% of the people, 45, make $30,000 or less a year. Shit. Households we're talking about. That's wild.

That's fucking crazy. That's way too low. Yeah, that's a lot of people working for tips and for minimum wage and shit that's brutal uh now cost of living here is not even that low 100 is average regular par here it's 86 and the housing is a 77 median home cost 178 300 bucks not on 35 grand say which isn't that bad unless you make 27 grand a year and then you're hurting that's not going to work out well for you. Very house poor. But if you want to give it a shot, yes, it's cash poor.

You know it. Yeah. But you're not really going to be house rich here either if you talk about the houses. So if you can't help yourself, damn it, you need to go here. You're going to be $11,000,001. We have for you the Pigeon Forge Tennessee real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $724 a month, which is low compared to the average. But I found houses here.

They're expensive, man. They're not cheap. I found a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,920 square feet house. Kind of shitty. It's not really in great shape. $172,500, though. Yeah, it's not wonderful. And that's kind of your average price. I found a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,708 square foot.

Decent house. Woods behind it. Nice family house. $285,000 for that bad boy though so it's it's gonna cost you and then let's say that's the middle one that's the middle one you found a better one let's say you own the confederate railroad theme park nearby and you're doing very well for yourself i found an 11 bedroom 12 bath what t-ball for every b-hole, god damn it. That's amazing.

8,640 square foot. It looks like a giant fucking lodge. Wow. It's awesome. It has an indoor pool. Enough b-holes, tea holes. It's ridiculous. In case you got an extra friend.

Yeah, it's nuts, dude. $1,899,000. I gotta make some money. I was gonna say, which in a place that anyone wanted to live that would be like way more than that seven million dollars if that was even here this place sucks can you own that and with it being a like a thoroughfare like that for travel you could b and b oh a bunch of those bedrooms could be and be the shit out of it you could probably pay your rent oh yeah you could probably pay your mortgage probably pay your mortgage just running a little lodge out of it awesome you could do that when you can allow which might be what it is that

might be what it might be a lodge for sale like it might be why they're selling it possibly people there yes possible now things to do jimmy oh i can't wait dollywood is here all right this is dollywood that's why you've heard of pigeon that's why i've heard of it because you've been in the fucking town i've been in this town now first of all you guys have all you guys tweet at jimmy for his love of dolly parton and all that the reason dolly parton came up yeah was because we at my house were on like a dolly parton kick and we were loving dolly parton i showed sarah uh rhinestone we watched nine 5. We were watching all this shit, showing her all this stuff and we were talking about Dolly Parton. So I was bringing up how much we loved Dolly Parton

and then you went off on how you wanted to have sex with her for fucking 15 minutes. And so it was like, okay. So Jimmy has hijacked our Dolly Parton love with his fucking blood lust for her. It's not my fault. With his lust for her tits. Loved her since I was eight.

For her 80-year-old tits. So it's funny. So with his lust for her tits loved her since i was eight for her 80 year old tits so it's funny so i love dolly parton too she's amazing in his household we like dolly god damn it because she's funny she's great she put up with sylvester stallone attempting to sing country music for a whole movie yeah without just like killing him so you know what that's a patient woman that's the patience of a saint the amount of abuse she is probably more than likely endured just by trying to fucking sell an album without huge and and embracing it the amount of abuse she's probably taken i can't imagine smiling oh it's such a tough world when you're blonde and have huge tits isn't it no i get what you're saying though back in the day that was definitely you're gonna get some oh sexist shit

thrown at your way but how how do you sing with people in the front row she probably played a lot of shows like forrest gump's jenny with clothes on obviously yeah i hope so i hope she had clothes on but just she also kind of has a great presence and she rocks, too. So I think she could have had reverse no-tits or reverse concave and people would have thought she was pretty fucking good. So in 1985, she was approached by the guys who owned all the Branson shit because she was born in Sivierville, which is right by me, right here. Sivierville? Sivierville. There you go.

right here and basically seaverville seaverville there you go there was a proposal for a partnership in the promotion an operation of silver dollar city place they had now parton she ended up becoming a majority partner and it was renamed dollywood and uh you know to launch a major marketing campaign and there was a nearby magic world which folded in 1994 i got news for you too it's just okay it's okay well i have i have some rides here that they have the dollywood express train yeah they have the barnstormer daredevil falls uh lightning rod yeah you got boob mountain which is a very popular attraction smoky mountain river rampage they do not have they do not have titty teacups which is what i was really the problem yeah none of that

and the tennessee tornado which that sounds terrible i don't want to who the hell wants that sounds frightening hide in the bathtub kids no so those are your you know what else she has is because it's like a quote-unquote wild west people expect like dolly just be walking around greeting people like hi y'all how you doing you doing? Get y'all a lemonade. And you're like, no, it's not her house. That's not the Neverland Ranch. That's not what this is. That's not what she does while she's not on tour.

No, it's just a thing she owns. She doesn't live there. People think she lives there and this is her yard. That's the impression people have. Like Neverland Ranch with Michael Jackson. It's not that. It's not even close. She just bought into some Branson missouri hucksters fucking shitty theme

park and renamed it after her boobs well there's there's like a house there that is kind of modeled after the one she grew up in and it plays uh uh coat of many colors that the coat that her mom sewed for yeah and it tells all about her story rags to riches shit which is great that's amazing this is dumb can we go home yeah that's the theme part this isn't six flags for christ's sake this is shit they do have women that wander around that are kind of scantily clad that like accost young boys what yes wait a second yeah they come just put their tits in their face like hi kissed me legit kissed me i wasit kissed me. I was 12, 10 years old. They work there. Yeah.

Their job is to go around and molest young children. Basically to be quote unquote whores. Wait a second. They call themselves that? Yes. Wait a second, Jimmy. We got to back the fuck up for a minute. I don't know if they still do it.

Okay. But when I was younger, the girl. You were eight walking around dollywood and your mom was like oh the whores are coming and then you were like okay and then she was like let the whore kiss you and that's what happened well we posed for a picture like whore jane on her shirt like how do you know that they were called the whores where did your parents call them that or was that like was there a whore stand that you could like they hung out at? Yes, more like a stable place. Like a cab stand?

Yes. It didn't say. It's the Dollywood Red Light District. They weren't officially called the horse. Okay. I don't know. Well, listen. You had me very confused.

I had no idea what was happening. These women just came and took pictures with their dress. I don't know. So your mom called the women whores? Yes. That's where the name. Through their faces. Oh't know. Your mom called the women whores. Yes. That's where they knew their face. Oh, OK. That's where we're getting at.

OK. See, I jumped the gun and they didn't correct her. So that's wow. So we took a picture with a picture. And the girl says to her friend, kiss him. So she kissed my brother and then she kissed me. Yeah. And then I was fucking stunned. I'm like, what just happened? friend what the fuck kiss him so she kissed my brother and then she kissed me yeah and then uh

i was fucking stunned i'm like what just happened and then they like walked off and my mom goes those are just the whores that walk around here and i was like the what what i'm dead this is weird is that because dolly parton said that she because i heard her talk about i don't know is that i don't know that it's like their their quote-unquote job there though is to pretend that they're prostitutes in the town that's literally yes oh because dolly idolized that prostitute that was a right that whole thing that was that's her her whole like origin story is that what it is it's they're quote-unquote prostitutes okay so they're officially prostitutes and your mom called them whores right okay to their faces that's not coming from you clearly no i was gonna say that's clearly

either an official title or job is to pretend to be prostitutes and kiss young boys okay it's pretty wild i mean okay i loved it i bet you did um i didn't understand it but i knew i liked it dollywood everybody it's so go see way no tits different but get kissed by him. Yeah, it's way different than I thought. Wow, they really changed the theme. They were hot. Music here, Dolly. I don't even know what to say about that. It's all Christmas shit.

Appalachian Christmas, Christmas and the Smokies, Oh Holy Night, the great pumpkin Lumenites. Lumenites, that's what it is. She does love Christmas. Oh, holy night. The great pumpkin lumen lights, lumen nights. Lumen nights, that's what it is. She does love Christmas. Well, oh, I bet. And then also here, they offer, this is right on their website for Dollywood, right on the front page, parent swap. Oh, boy. What?

Yeah, pardon? What the fuck? Dollywood is hailed as a family-friendly park, and my family of seven always puts that to the test. Parent swap is one of the programs Dollywood offers that exemplifies why I love this theme park so much. Have you taken advantage of Parent Swap? What do they do? What the fuck is going on here?

Do you switch kids? You take your group of seven and you just hand them off to people? Hand them off? I'll take your four and I'll meet you back here. Take these four family of three? Not the fuck. Why are you going places with your kids if you're going to exchange them with somebody else? What's going on? To go have fun with somebody else's kids? Yeah, thanks.

Your kids are so much cooler. They're so... Oh, man. They were so much fun. My kid sucks. No. Yeah, you. You suck.

Come on. I do get it, though. You're not getting ice cream because you suck. Also, other things here, not at the Dollywood, but other attractions in this town, tourism shit. Paula Deen's Lumberjack Feud Show and Adventure Park. Feud shit. Paula Deen's Lumberjack feud show and adventure park feud show. Paula Deen's Lumberjack. What the fuck does she have to do with brides and lumberjacks? I thought she cooked shit.

Yeah. She cooks shit with butter and says the N word. That's what she does. That's her job. She loves lumberjacks, especially when they feud. Oh boy. The Buttonwillow Civil War Theater, Top war theater top jump trampoline trampoline and extreme arena okay crave golf club titanic museum alcatraz east crime museum okay southern gospel

museum and hall of fame country tonight theater paula dean's lumberjack something else here i don't know what the fuck that is comedy barn theater oh baby yeah maybe we can get booked down to comedy barn theater zippity-doo-dah uh wonderworks children's museum smoky mountain opry of course elvis and hollywood legends museum hatfield and mccoy dinner feud oh yeah the tomb escape adventure biblical times dinner theater oh that sounds fun yay Yay, kids. Here's a good story. Come on, kids. Memories Theater. Just remember the past.

It's called the Memories Theater. Fly away indoor skydiving. It defeats the purpose. NASCAR Speed Park. Smoky Mountain Alpine Coaster. Jurassic Jungle Boat Ride. Hollywood Wax Museum. The Island in Pigeon Forge, which is featuring the great Smokey Mountain Wheel, tribute to Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack. What?

There? They have no connection to Tennessee. What? Vegas, New York, fine. Smokey? No. Shit. The Island Show Founds, American Oldies theater grand majestic dinner theater great smoky mountain

murder mystery oh Jesus Christ Ripken experience it was just Cal Ripken standing there how you doing everybody not as boring just no that's a senior

it's his dad just gonna I managed the Orioles back in 83 when we when Cal was MVP where's your son went to the series he's like Billy

Billy's at home not nobody likes Billy no one cares about billy you didn't even like we only like cal i hate cal so uh and also winter fest now this sounds like they love the past well yeah it's a bunch of old people that go here and remember the oldies here kids let me show you the past remember what it used to look like now crime rate in this town what we're interested in property crime is about three times the past. Remember what it used to look like? Now, crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, property crime is about three times the national average here.

Really? So it is. They will steal your shit here. Well, it's probably things like, that's my camera. No, that was my camera. Yeah, cars getting broken into and parking lots of theme parks by people who make minimum wage. Yeah.

Yeah, and can't afford their rent. Yeah. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, would expect to be low i would assume here almost double as well so not fucking around i had no idea i'm lucky to be alive full of crime you could have been stabbed and thrown into a ravine somewhere no one would have known those whores took mercy upon me they did they could have killed you quickly thank god for that with that said, let's talk about a murder. I can't wait. Oh my goodness here.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor...

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one

and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, let's do it. We got to go back in time here to July of 1987. So picture that. Dolly had just taken over there.

They just pitched Dollywood to Dolly. And she said, all right, then, honey. All right there, sugar sugar and then i'll be there very soon yeah this this act this is right when they were making the deal for dollywood this all went down this could have screwed the whole deal up we'll put it that way because this is pretty fucking wild here let's talk about a woman uh well let's talk about this first okay j. July 11th, 1987. Early afternoon. So, you know, broad daylight is the best way to put that. A woman named Christy Scott Jones comes over to her mother's house. And her mother is a 42-year-old woman named Ann Robertson Jones or Dorothy Ann Robertson Jones.

But she goes by Ann. But her full name, Dorothy Ann Robertson Jones. It's a lot of names. It's a lot. But she's not a fan of the fucking wizard of oz it has ruined her no she's like yeah that's what she's going with anne yeah fuck it so uh anne robertson jones 42 and christy scott jones her daughter or jones scott her daughter comes over to uh you know check on her mom she's gonna pick her up or something now anne robertson Jones, the mother, she runs a t-shirt shop in Pigeon Forge.

She like, you know, runs one of the souvenir shops. There's a settler's village they have there and it's a bunch of touristy shit basically with a bunch of shops.

I survived Pigeon Forge. I survived, yeah. Pigeon shit on the shoulder. That's what it is and I got kissed by a prostitute in Pigeon Forge

and I'm only eight. You know what I mean? Stuff like that in front of my mom. Yeah. H I mean? Stuff like that in front of my mom. Hooked up with a sex worker in front of my mom. That's a good t-shirt, right? That's a good one. It's a very, they can't even keep it in stock. It flies right out the door.

Mom got me a hooker. Yeah. Oh my God, is this loud t-shirt? That's it. Oh, wait. And gunnery at home. Not just this shirt. Oh, no. This shirt's the same. Oh, hold on yep that hurts it hurts to be never mind this shirt's the second thing i got i got this first but the other thing is going to

be more of a concern so um she runs a t-shirt shop selling t-shirts such as that when her daughter christy scott jones walks in her house everything seems normal and finally uh looks through the house because she can't find her mom and she finds her in her own bed uh her mother is uh partially clothed lying face down on her bed here and uh it's not good uh there's a lot of blood everywhere. And her arms and legs had been bound and tied to the bed with strips of blue terrycloth and pieces of sheer off-white material. They say like a tablecloth or a curtain material. You know, like in a restaurant that is kind of industrial white tablecloths, that sort

of shit. Heavy shit. Yeah, that heavy kind of thing like that. And there was a gag tied across her mouth and strips of the blue terry cloth had been tightly wrapped around her neck so uh yeah this is not what you want to walk into obviously and clearly there has been some serious shit that's happened here um not only in terms of the binding but the the blood is right there's a lot of blood just more than it's a real mess yeah and it looks like there's a lot of blood, just more than it's a real mess. Yeah.

And it looks like there's a lot of blood in the way that it's on purpose. It's been spread like it's not like, you know, a puddle below her and a little spatter over here. It's there's about blood in places where it's like, why is there a bunch of blood on the floor here? That makes no sense, considering that there's no trail from there to their stuff like that. It's just very it just very fucking confusing here. And according to, so obviously she calls the police and they bring in forensic people. And the forensic pathologist for the state here, Dr. Cleland Blake, said that Jones had suffered several blunt traumatic contusions to her head. had suffered several blunt traumatic contusions to her head.

These injuries were consistent with those caused by a blunt or rounded object and would have rendered her unconscious at some point. Her skull had been fractured and the cartilage in her nose displaced by the beating. So in this sort of thing, there's no nobody open an artery. There's no like throat cutting or something like that that would cause a lot of blood. So when you'd see a lot of blood, it's a strange thing. And fucking sounds on purpose. Sure does. You know what I mean?

This is a horrible scene. She'd bled extensively from her mouth and nose from the facial, from beatings in the face here. There was what he called a patch of scraping type of injuries this is the quote quote scraping type of injuries caused by some kind of slender linear object like whipping marks on the back left side of her chest beneath her shoulder blades on the right buttock there were three linear imprints superficial bruises that fit perfectly with four fingers of a hand so there's a slap there type of thing i got very hard to leave imprints and bruising you know medically for someone to notice it stick around yeah um now dr blake wrote in his report that these are

represented a quote hard slap injury to the buttock inflicted while the victim was still alive so um yeah that's uh this is a fucking mess so far i mean jesus christ first of all the daughter walks in and finds this she's not a child she's an adult but still that's gonna ruin yeah if you're 20 years old you don't want to walk in if you're 60 years old you don't want to walk in and find your mother in this in this position it's gonna rewire your brain you are changed yeah that's that, you don't want to walk in and find your mother in this position. It's going to rewire your brain. You are changed. Yeah, I don't know how it wouldn't. Now, the terrycloth strips around her neck, Jones here, Ann, had been pulled so tightly that they cut off the flow of blood to the brain as well.

And the gag was bound so tightly that it cut a deep groove into the corners of her mouth so it's a very you know over unnecessarily tight basically and um combined with the hemorrhaging and the nasal nasal passages this caused her to suffocate which is her actual cause of death from the gag is suffocating from bleeding through her nasal cavities and having the gag over her mouth so tight not being able to get in the air, while being unconscious as well from having your skull fractured. Unbelievable. So this is quite the beating and quite, somebody really just had no, didn't give shit one for human suffering here, clearly at all, whoever did this. The conclusion is that she died as a result of

asphyxiation while unconscious so that's the deal their examination of the crime scene showed that the door to the bedroom where she was found had been forced open um there would have been broken open basically and a purse and its contests and its contents were strewn all over the hall that's kind of how the daughter found her, is followed the purse contents into the bedroom to see what was going on. If you walk in, you can't find your mom and her purse contents are strewn all over the hallway. That's a bad sign. And it's a trail all the way back to the bedroom.

Yeah, that's not a good thing here. In addition to that, the phone lines to the house had been cut from the outside. Cut with a knife. So there's that or whatever clipped um so sometime there uh also so this is going on obviously there's an investigation lots of forensic work being done but sometime in the next two or three weeks christy jones scott the daughter she discovers a silver turquoise and coral ring with a thunderbird design lying on the ground behind next to her mother's truck which was still parked at the house so this ring who knows she picks it's been to albuquerque she somebody's been to albuquerque god damn it so she picks it up and obviously turns this over to the police doesn't know if it's anything i mean

who the fuck knows you find shit on the ground all the time. That could have been there for six months. We have no idea. So there's no leads, no nothing. Police are completely baffled, have no clue what this is. Investigation, I mean, you have some forensics and you have, we know what happened. You can see a clear course of events but that's it all the blood hers all the blood appears to be hers the only thing missing from the house by the way

appears to be uh the contents of her purse yeah and a toothbrush oh which is a an oral b pink toothbrush weird which is uh the only thing missing from the house really random ass choice of things to steal right not even like the toothpaste. Yeah. They left that behind. Maybe they've been looking for the pink one. You know what? That's the thing is sometimes when they're out of that model,

you've got to get that model. Oh, my God. Take your daughter. They only had the medium bristle, and you're like, I need the soft. I just want the soft. My son gets one, and then my daughter wants the same one, but she wants a specific color. You can't get it.

Yeah, you're fucked then. They're all gone. There's only purple, baby. I don't want purple. I'm going to have to murder somebody and steal theirs. Do you understand I have to crack a woman's skull open and take hers for this? Shit. You're the best dad in the world.

Basically, get to looking for whoever's got a pain in the ass daughter that won't use a purple toothbrush. And you'll find your culprit. That's where your culprit will be. I'm good at police work. So, you're going to solve this case now. Done. Thanks for listening.

Round up all the little girls in town who's got a pink toothbrush. Find out if they're a pain in the ass. Talk to all their teachers and you're done. Her dad may love his daughter, but he's an asshole. Sir, but there's no physical evidence I did anything. Sir, your fucking daughter has a pink toothbrush. You're coming with us. Let's go.

Hands behind your back. You're going to get the chair for this, mister. What? She just asked for pink. I know. Oh, we know. Oh, we know. So they make no progress in this case.

There's literally no suspects. They talk to the neighbors. There's no, nobody saw a car. Nobody saw a person. Nobody saw anything. And outside of that, if there's no fingerprints and things like that, you're pretty much. What do you do? That's a murder case.

That's how cold cases happen. You end up with we ask around. No witnesses, no leads, no forensic leads. What do you do? I mean, shit. This is perfect for Hulu for 20 years from now. That's what I mean. This will be a great show for them.

Who the fuck knows? So they make very little. A year goes by with no progress. Nothing. Nothing. I mean, we're talking July all the way to mid-June of 1988 is when they finally catch a little bit of a break here. I mean, that's a long fucking time to go, a year with nothing. And really, they're working it because

there's not a lot of shit like this that goes on around here so i mean it's not like they just put it aside this isn't like you know they're in uh baltimore or new york or something where there's enough homicides to keep you busy if uh you know one goes cold here you just keep working on it because i don't know how many homicides they have so uh now june 22nd 1988 is when they take a statement from a an extremely unlikely source uh it's a child it is a at the time 15 year old girl here uh they take this is the first of six statements they'll end up taking from this girl now she says that when their first statement she says she has no knowledge of the details of this murder or anything like that but she makes allegations that possibly an old boyfriend of

hers might know something about it and you should probably talk to him that's her first statement now who is this girl and what the fuck is going on here why would a young why would a teenage girl know anything about this lady being bludgeoned in her own bedroom well april marie ward is her name and at the time of the murder she's 14 years old right so a freshman in high school or even an eighth grader that you know started late so better word is child child works basically i'm just i'm trying to put it in perspective that she carries a fucking you know in 87 she has a trapper keeper is what i'm getting at with like a horse on it and shit and she you know writes i love so and so she's a dork if she has two straps on her back that's what i'm saying

this is the time is you know put yourself in that shoe you're you're very young at that point now her story that she ends up getting to here eventually over the course of six statements because that's the first statement is i don't know anything but i know a guy who might that's the first one now she goes from that and evolves over six statements into quite the tale here quite the fucking tale um basically what she says is a year earlier the summer of 1987 early summer kind of like late may that sort of deal she meets a man and I do say a man because it's not another child, a 27-year-old named Gary June Coffrin. The only thing I can think about this guy is he looks younger than he is.

He's 5'3". Okay. So he's a little guy. Yeah. So one thing, if one thing and i if you watch this if you watch anything like reality shows and shit like that where there's any kind of dating little guys smaller guys have a harder time with women obviously horrible you have to kind of you have a mountain to climb you do because right away that you ask women a literal

one what do you like physically in a guy not tall it's always the first thing they say it's a hard thing to overcome and we did like the personal ads thing. How many of them say six feet or over? Like they don't fucking dark and handsome is they say that for a fucking reason. Yeah. So some women don't care, but that's your typical though. It feels like that.

Yeah. It's a, I don't know what the psychology is. Yeah. Jack's wife. Is it a tiny woman? She's like, yeah,

it's strange. It's enormous man. And size. And she's with this. It's strange. This enormous man. One of Sarah's friends one time told her, she's like, that's not fair. You took a tall one. That's wrong because she's a taller girl. She's like, you're short. You didn't need a tall one like that. Jada Pinkett Smith, same thing. Granted, she's got plenty

other boyfriends, but you know the point. And whoever else she's in with. Yeah, this is this is he if you're five three though what i've noticed is if you're small and you look young you're not threatening to women a lot of times a lot of times sometimes you are if you look like a crazy person or something but if you can do that if you could put on a half a little bit of charm you can come across young and harmless and not you know not frightening to a woman physically sure if a woman doesn't feel physically i feel feel like, frightened by you, it's a little easier

to maybe get the first meeting in if you're not an attractive guy to begin with. So that might be why she ends up going out with a 27-year-old. They become romantically involved in the early summer of 1987 27 years old and 14 years old that's illegal that's extremely even even in tennessee that's fucking not legal like i'm sorry even in tennessee although you know what back then i'm not sure no because in 87 though up until a few years. I'm not kidding. Idaho was like 14. There were states where it's 14. But I still think that's with another kid.

It's not with an adult, I don't think. If you look at the consent laws around this country, it is crazy how much they vary. Yeah. Oh, it's a lot. It's wild. I remember on the old episodes of Loveline, people used to call and be like, I'm 21. I'm dating this chick. And they'd like look up laws for him and shit.

Dr. Drew at one point had a fucking card that had all the fucking states. Yeah. Yeah. Had all the states age of consent on it. I was 17 and did something probably illegal. Let's not discuss that. So anyway, yeah, but she becomes romantically involved with a 27 year old. In other words, a 27 year old is grooming and then raping her basically is what that

means because you can't consent to a relationship with a 27 year old when you're fucking 14. It's not a romantic relationship no matter how they want to phrase it here. It's not a romantic relationship, no matter how they want to phrase it here. Now, her mother, April Ward's mother, worked. Her name is Letty Marie Cruz. She worked at the Turquoise Jewelry Shop in Settler's Village, which was a group of shops there near the T-shirt shop that Ann Robertson worked in. So she works there also. Like I said, her mom, and jones who was the woman who died here uh jones robertson whatever she ran the wild hair t-shirt shop in there so there we got the turquoise

the turquoise jewelry shop and the wild hair h-a-r-e yeah of course t-shirt shop there so now anyway april from being around there seeing her mom and stuff like that, 14-year-old April, she runs into this Gary Coffrin while he's working on a nearby construction site. So think about your 14-year-old daughter. Getting catcalled. Not even getting, actually just like being talked up, chatted up by a fucking some dude on a construction site. Oh, my God. The fucking murder that I would inflict is intense. Like, no fucking way.

I will kill you with your own tools. I swear to Christ. Was Ron supporting this? Well, we'll talk about this. Was she jacked? Has she got herself a work in there? I can't imagine. Yeah, I don't know if this was like, he's not Jerry Lee Lewis or anything.

Unless you're a pop star in the 50s, you can't imagine she... Yeah, I don't know if this was like... He's not Jerry Lee Lewis or anything. Unless you're a pop star in the 50s, you can't marry a 14-year-old. So I don't know how that works exactly. If you have a couple of hit songs, the parents would give them

to you. Which you gotta do. Well, I mean, she's gonna have a good life either way. I mean, sure, it's gross now. Right.

But 10 years from now? Sure, it's still gonna be gross. What opportunity is she gonna have again to marry a pop star who happens to be a pedophile? What opportunity will she get again we can't can't let her pass it up fuck man so yeah they end up meeting and uh they met on the covered portico area which is they were everyone referred to it as the porch of settlers village seems like it's the area where they have tables. You get snacks and food, and you can sit down at the tables.

You know, communal bullshit there. It's awful. So that's where they met, and then they would meet up almost every day under the portico here, the covered patio. So this is what's going on. This guy is- How do you, as a man at 27- Meeting up with a 14-year-old girl? Worse than. How do you feel any sense man at 27, meeting up with a 14-year-old girl? Worse than.

How do you feel any sense of pride when you walk home? How do you not just feel like the worst thing on earth? Well, if you're walking home as a grown man, you should already... He's doing that. Well, no, actually not. No? Your pride would already be in the toilet at that point.

But if you're walking home from a liaison with a freshman, I would say that'd be significantly more depressing. You should certainly feel terrible. You should feel like shit about yourself that just kill yourself if that's your problem and i we are not pro-suicide obviously here as we've had our own rushes and everything but plenty of issues if you are a 27 year old man considering fucking a 14 year old girl and then walking home just throw yourself in front of a bus because save us all a lot of trouble please stop fucking looking at 14 year old sexually thank you and if you've already done it please never listen to me again yeah turn it off now anywhere near this no no you don't deserve this

so summer of 1988 this is when this all comes around and like i said in her first interview before she gives up all the details here as well we'll get into in a second, she discusses. Remember, I said she said, I don't know anything about the crime, but I know a guy that might basically at that point by 88, they had broken up. Oh, so she's bitter. I don't know if she's bitter. She is not. One way or another, she's not. No.

Happy that she dated him. That's the thing. And I don't we don't know exactly how the police got a hold of her particularly now i would assume since she's a teenage girl and not teenage girl just teenage in general she probably told somebody probably told a sibling probably told a friend and a friend told a parent a parent went to the car because that's how these all end up happening is uh kids can't keep their mouths shut you know they think think they're best friends, but they're like, oh, my God, a lady's dead. And they go tell their mom about it.

And that's what happens. So either way, the police know that she is has some involvement here. So during the summer of 88, they do track down Gary June Coffrin, and they talk to him a few different times as well, based on what she tells them. He denies knowing the victim at all. Denies knowing Ann whatsoever. Never heard of her. Never heard of her. Don't know who the fuck you're talking about.

Don't know anything about her death. Who died? Sorry to hear that. Don't know shit about it. I was busy fucking children, not murdering people. Yeah, you see, you really got to focus in when you're having sex with a child. See, you really got to focus. You know.

Disgusting. Laser focus. Anything outside to focus, you know. Disgusting. Laser focus. Anything outside of that. Yeesh. Disgusted here. So what he did is he denies his actions. He said he did not do anything. He also says that he did not because they bring up, we heard you were in a fight in a bar in Newport

because he walked into somewhere, as we'll get into in a minute with scratches all over him the next day and basically he's he had several different stories of how he got all these scratches one was that he had gotten in a fight in a bar in Newport over a beer and another one was he got in a scuffle at some kind of a gas station or something but he told a bunch of different stories about how he gotten scratched up why wouldn't you just pick a story and tell it to everybody? The same one. Run with it.

The same one. Just run. It would be easier. What are you, bored? Maybe. You bored lying? You know, I don't pick up shoes. It's a better lie.

Maybe he told one lie and he didn't even believe it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to spice that one up. Or he's like, I could make myself sound cooler here. You know, rather than a scuffle, it was a bar fight. Yeah. You know what I mean? And he broke a stool over my back, but I turned around, hit him with a beer mug right in the face and i won and the next time

there was two guys and then there was two guys one came up from behind held me in a full nelson lock and the other one came up to hit me but i raised my feet quick kicked him in the chest head butted the guy in the nose behind me grabbed the stool turned around cracked the guy holding me and then squared up on the other guy like what's up motherfucker and he was like i don't want no piece of that he ran out that back door faster than the rabbit shits i tell you what next time i see them they want no part of me they want no part of me next time next time i walk in there them both gonna get up off their stool and leave because they know next time i went in there free beers on that next time i went in there then both bought me beers both of them that's right it's respect good fellas you know why

was that a respect he just breaks into italian you know why was that a respect people are like this guy is really confusing the coolest guy too i mean he's really cool but he's confusing as shit so he gives a bunch of different stories they say okay where were you on this night we're talking a year ago jimmy where were you on july 15th 2019 where were you i'd have to you know what i can do is look at my facebook and it'll tell me. It'll tell you, yeah. In 1987, you go, I don't know. I don't fucking know. He says he does know, though. What?

He says that he... That's a big day. It's a big day for him. He stayed at his grandmother's house that night. So, big day. Yeah, it's memorable. You know how it is. Remembers the date. Yeah.

He said that night he'd been riding around with a friend and his friend's wife at the time of the murder. So, he was just joyriding around remembers the date yeah yeah he said then that night he'd been riding around with a friend and his friend's wife at the time of the murder so he was just joyriding around with a buddy and a buddy's wife and they dropped him on off at his grandma's house what a memory and he remembers that from a year ago so very impressive here jesus get out i'm saying so over the course of these several different interviews because they bring him in a few different times, he becomes more and more nervous and agitated.

Because obviously, if they're bringing you back, you didn't get away with it. You know what I mean? So during the course of these interviews, at one point, they asked him, who killed Dan Jones then? Because that's what you go. Who killed Dan Jones? And he stated, quote, whoever done it needs help. So he knows something. Whoever done it needs help. That knows something whoever done it needs help

that's a messed up thing he told me well they showed him pictures and all that shit he knows what happened and another time he said uh quote if i'm convicted of what i've done someone will have to pay which is a i don't know what he was saying there that's a it's a bad statement yeah if i'm convicted of what i've done yeah not if i'm convicted of what you think i've done that would be a better thing if i'm convicted of what they're accusing me of if i'm going to be hell to pay right yeah that would be different but if if y'all make me take responsibility for something i did i ain't taking that line down not happening sorry let me tell you about this story i did to these two fellas in a bar oh boy let me tell you what oh man and they didn't even try to put me in jail you ever seen roadhouse now i use the techniques of swayze trying to keep out you know trouble starters you know how it is here i just pictured this guy thinking he's patrick

swayze and it's making me very fucking happy like it's like you know what i'm a handsome son bitch too i mean he's getting some pretty young girls it's pretty impressive not impressive that is not impressive absolutely not impressive here now during or after one of these interrogation sessions he went home and tried to kill himself which is an odd thing for an innocent person to do i would think um but i mean who knows if you had pressure if you if you had some sort of mental shortcoming or mental just instability of any kind you might have whatever uh they asked him well why'd you do that and he said that he was depressed and he had a lot on his mind yeah you know how it is man the construction business is tough nowadays, and I don't know if that beam's going to hold it.

I just don't know. I have nightmares at night. And I told the boss, I said, God damn it. If we're going to build the biggest Confederate theme park in the goddamn world, we got to do it quality. You know what I'm saying? It's got to last longer than the Confederacy. Right. got to do with quality you know i'm saying it's got to last longer than the confederacy right so uh he said he had a lot on his mind at his last interview that he did with them they confronted

him with a bunch of because they had like four different statements from him over like four different interviews they brought him in for another one and they said okay you've been in here a bunch of times here's what we have have. You said this, and then you said this. That's contradictory. You said this, but then what about that? That's contradictory. So his answer is to get up and walk out. No explanation. He just leaves.

Well, this isn't working. Y'all just going to use these words and show me how dumb I am then. I don't want any part of you. I don't want it. If y'all just going to show me every time I'm lying and wrong, why am I going to participate? I am going to leave and go places where people believe my bullshit. Goodbye, sir. But he just got up and fucking left. He can do that.

Well, if you're not under arrest. Yeah, if you're not under arrest, you can leave. But I mean, that gives them. That's a pretty. This is more of a statement than saying I just killed her. Innocent people at least like would say i didn't fucking do it leave me alone and then they'd leave they wouldn't just be like um and take the fuck off out the door that's a crazy thing to do what made him think that would be the

solution to this that'll get me off well not i don't remember sometimes i drink too much and i don't fucking know just something anything is better than i could see his eyes shifting back and forth from detective to detective and then he just gets up and runs out the door that can't be good for anybody so what the fuck happened here i'd like to know yeah well here is april's story because april's got the whole story and she's gonna fucking tell it now april said she knew that her mother would have disapproved of her relationship with gary if if she knew his true age of course oh so they've been telling her he's a young boy well uh april had told her mother that he was 18 which still no the mother should have said

fuck no you are 18 and 14 is not okay i don't give a shit what plateau you're sitting atop, what Appalachian Mountain shit place you are. You can't fuck 14 year olds if you're 18 and you shouldn't want to. That's the other thing. You should hear 14 ago. Oh, Jesus Christ. I don't know. Stay in school or something. I'm going to go find your older sister.

That's you should be your fucking your attitude. Yeah. L is wrong with you. So instead, April became upset because and Jones and her mother were friends because they worked at shops right next to each other. So they knew each other very well. And apparently, and Jones had a conversation with April's mother that caused April to disapprove of the relationship between April and and and Gary. So she's pissed at Ann Jones there. Robertson Jones, all the names and Jones are in the collar here.

So April, she she hated Jones for this. She was mad at her and she was pissed that basically they tried to separate her and her boyfriend. But the man was your age when you were born. That's what I mean. That's why that's fine. she was pissed that basically they tried to separate her and her boyfriend. The man was your age when you were born. That's what I mean. That's wild. That's fucked up. And it's fucked up too because the fact that, like I said, he's 5'3 and he looks young,

he can pull off 18. They say he's 18, you see a little guy like that, you're like, oh, he doesn't look too threatening and he's fine and whatever, but no, not okay. Not at all. He's 27. Ask for ID. If you're unsure of the guy's age, let no, not okay. Not at all. He's 27. Ask for ID. Right. If you're unsure of the guy's age, let me see some ID.

Why not? What's he going to say? No? Then you can't see my daughter. Then it's weird. If he says no, it's even weirder. Then you can't see her then. No is definitely a weirder response to that question than that question is to ask.

And if you're trying to date my daughter, I'd prefer your ID be in the form of a school ID, if possible. Like, let's make sure you're not, you know? I don't even want a driver's license. Some guy puts out, like, his union iron workers card. You're like, hold on a second here. This isn't okay. His retired military card. It's my AARP membership.

I got that there. Okay okay got my voter registration so uh yes she's obviously they're all pissed off at both and jones and the mother for not allowing this relationship because now the mother disapproves of this of this relationship and uh so apparently april said that she uh uh she her mother had told her that Jones told her, told the mother that this guy was older than he says he is. He's not 18. He's actually older than that. Blah, blah, blah.

So yeah, like a shitload older. It's almost 30. Yeah. He's in his late twenties. You know what I'm saying? They stopped carding him even though he's at five three that's how they see the mustache and they know that that's razor yeah oh yeah he's been doing it he's got a receding hairline by now they're like yeah it's not working out and i knew this

is fucked up too because i knew i knew this about this guy i knew this girl in high school who was in one of our classes and uh we all like kind of knew her she was like 15 yeah and she was going out with this guy who was like 22 yeah and her parents were okay with this and this guy who was like 22 he was like a just like a weird like his parents died when he was young and he was like live with his like aunt and uncle and he was like this like i don't know like everything he did was like five years earlier like he had some sort of developmental pause or some weird shit. There's a thing that happens. Fucking weird, dude.

Human. Yeah. If your if your childhood is disrupted. Oh, it is. Yeah. You regress to that. You just identify. And that's what he did.

Can't do that. All of his friends were high school kids. Everyone he hung out with was 15. And like he was went out with this 15 year old girl and everything. And I was like, I didn't like the guys. Like, I'm not hanging out with this fucking weirdo. Right. I mean, he can buy us booze. He's like, I'm not hanging out with this fucking weirdo. Right. I mean, he can buy us booze.

That's good. And then he can get the fuck out of here. And then he can take the fuck off because I don't want to hang out with him. He's fucking weird. Whatever happened to him traumatically, psychologically, I'm sorry, sir. But yeah, I don't want to hang out with you if I'm a teenager and you're trying to fuck the sophomores around you. No, not happening.

You can get into the bar with a cover charge. We have to bribe the bouncer with a lot more sneak in never mind we're 15 so late june early july 1987 before all this happened the murder was july 11th one night two or three weeks before the actual murder ann jones the woman who the deceased here made gary coffer and leave her shop okay he had been drinking and he's he's bouncing around a fucking souvenir t-shirt shop shit-faced and acting in a disorderly manner you don't act disorderly or in the t-shirt shop like that's just weird strange behavior yeah so jones instructed him that he is not allowed in the shop anymore and he has to leave. And then told the mother, told April's mother, hey, your daughter's boyfriend came in my shop shit-faced.

He's not 18 years old. He's fucking drunk. He's got a 40 in his hand. Something's wrong here. Taking squigs off a flask like an 80-year-old. Something's up. He's got a rocks class in here. He doesn't even have the 40s taped to his hands like a college student no no no clearly past that yeah he's way

past that he knows what he's doing here he knows what the fuck he's doing so basically this this obviously pissed off gary he was super mad and he told april his girlfriend who's 14 who by the way if you're 14 and you're going out with a 27 year old, number one, go to the police now. First, your parents have them call the cops. Do that. Or if your parents are shitty, go right to the something. Somebody needs to be made aware of this. One way or another, find law enforcement.

Yeah. And number two, if your boyfriend says this to you, then definitely do those things. Gary told April that he would like to catch ann jones quote out one night and slice her throat for for kicking him out of the t-shirt shop yeah he had his eyes on a fucking dollywood shirt that he needed and they were the only ones that had it yeah you know it is they didn't have it in a large and he started getting mad or he didn't have it in a small i should say he's like as medium the smallest you have i'm gonna be swimming in this thing the w in dollywood is a butterfly there you go perfect

see he wanted the shirt yeah he really wanted it tracks kids it's the thing yeah it's a big butterfly big butterfly butterflies like a net i was gonna say that's his personal net yeah basically that's uh butterfly nets catch basically. That's a butterfly. Nets catch butterflies. Butterflies will be nets for kids. All right. Catching kids. Break.

Gross. Catch me a girlfriend. Let's go do this. Oh, boy. So what he did was Gary suggested to April, say, hey, why don't you do something here? Why don't you act like you're friends with Ann there? Because she's your mom's friend. You know, you're supposed to be buddy-buddy with her.

Why don't you accompany her to her house after work? You know, help her do something. Somehow get to her house after work. And then you can tell me where she lives and give me directions there, is what she said, is what he asked her. He also asked April to watch Jones as she closed her shop to see where she puts her money and also ask her, you know, just basic questions to find out if she's married, has a telephone or pets. These are all questions that you would seek out when you're going to go burglarize somewhere to get a telephone question.

Pets. How many people live there? Where's the money? These are all things that you would do when you're when you're scoping a fucking joint out for to bump it off yes right yeah absolutely does a 14 year old recognize that i mean if you're well he said i'd like to catch her out one night and slice her throat excellent so i would imagine that she probably i mean i would say that the thing is like we'll talk about it but he is not the brightest bulb no at all he's not. His IQ is in the high 70s and not the brightest bulb at all. We'll get into that.

He needs all this information and knows he needs this information. Yeah, yeah. He's got all this. But her, we don't know. We don't know her intelligence level, but she might be smart. You know what I mean? An adult that's not that smart and a teenager who's average, they're going to be on the same level. You know what I mean?

Intellectually. So that might be a part of it. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor... I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder,

decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, and that's why a lot of these people are attracted to children, which is fucked up, because they're fucked up in the head. So they're going to go after kids.

So the week before the murder here, April says that she and Gary began talking about going to Ann's house. They were going to go to her house. She said that Gary instructed her to bring a towel and a knife to, quote, gut Ann Jones. Said he was going to gut her, is what he said. she said that gary instructed her to bring a towel and a knife to quote gut ann jones said he was going to gut her that's what he said now this is exact words to her which is uh interesting

so bring a towel bring a towel and a knife to gut her with yeah so like we're going to catch trout right make sure to bring a towel bring a knife obviously we have to gut him when we're there a lot more guts in a person than a trout that's what i I'm saying. So Friday, July 10th, this is the day before the murder, at about 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock p.m., Gary came to April's house. He's driving an older model green and white 442 Oldsmobile Cutlass. Hell yeah. That's a fucking cool car. Yeah, it is.

He's got a badass muscle car. Yeah. That's fucking dope. Big motor in it. Yeah, that's dope. Thrust tires all day. We don't know if it's like a well-ke or because it's 87 so there was still like shitty ones out there that were just 15 years old 20 years old and not great now it's there's the only ones of those on the road are restored

pristinely beautiful perfect yeah so uh he had just purchased it though this is like his new ride yeah yeah so uh convertible do we know we don't know. Those are so rad. They're so fucking cool looking. Yeah. They're so cool. They're badass looking. Yeah. Those are the GTOs. Those are just.

Funny I figured out a couple models. They're fucking dope. So this is a Cutlass here. This is Oldsmobile. Oldsmobile. This is an Oldscutlass here. He told April that he would return that night and the two of them would go over to Ann Jones's house as they had planned earlier.

night and the two of them would go over to ann jones's house as they had planned earlier so april says that jesus christ this is what's as a parent this makes you just not want to go to sleep here ever um really never ever april says that after her mother went to sleep she cut a blue terry cloth towel into strips and waited for gary to arrive so i guess he instructed her ahead of time to cut a towel into strips do some arts and crafts do some arts and crafts get the glue out and do your thing and uh yeah this is after the mother went to sleep so the mother goes to sleep thinking my 14 year old nice daughter maybe has some homework to do and then she's gonna crash out maybe she'll watch a little tv, she's cutting towels into strips, waiting for a guy who's almost 30

to pull up in a shitty, broken-down muscle car. Wow, this is just not okay. Disturbing. So he picked her up after midnight. So, yeah, he had been drinking, of course. You know, you want to get in the car with people who've been drinking, usually. And this guy seems like, most of the time,

he's been drinking. I think it's just one of those. But according to April, he wasn't drunk. He just was, you know, feeling it. A nice little buzz going on. And another person, Vicki Worth, said that she had seen Gary drinking beer and smoking weed outside of a restaurant at about 10 or 11 o'clock that night. So he's smoking weed and he's drinking and whatever but this seems like regular behavior for him he's not all fucked up or anything like that this gets him even keeled yeah this is a drives fine this is just what he

does now on their way to ann jones house april and gary gave april alcohol as well and they did some coke oh boy as well so you know you want to give your 14 year old girlfriend cocaine obviously clearly you got to give her some coke right why not here's some booze oh wait a second you're not old enough for that let me give you some coke instead you're not damaging this person enough no drugs inside her dude this is what i'm this girl is living like she's fucking hanging out at studio 54 over here she's having sex and doing drugs and drinking and shit i mean planning a murder she's having sex and doing drugs and drinking and shit. I mean, planning a murder. She's fucking 14.

If she was doing all this shit, obviously not encouraging kids, whatever. But if she was doing all this shit with kids her own age, it would be like, OK, well, she's a we need to ground her or something, whatever. But this guy is 27. None of this shit is her idea. She's not like you got any fucking coke or what? She gets in the car, you know, not like pass the booze and where the fuck is the coke did you pick it up like i told you to you lazy fuck i gave you the guy's number i know the guy yeah tell him it's for me

he'll hook you up he's fucking 14 that's why they put vinyl on this dash yeah that's what i was gonna say if i'm gonna put it on the dash babes let's do it no don't turn the heat on don't do that oh god no don't turn the defrost on oh jesus christ all over this car yeah so uh they say that they they did that they drank and took some coke and they walked to ann's house from the parking lot of a nearby nursing home where they parked the Oldsmobile. So it's down the street a little bit. With him, Gary is holding the handle of a pool stick, basically. Like half a pool stick.

You know the pool sticks that unscrew in half that you put in the little case? I got one of those. The one from the barn. Yeah, I got one right down there. So, yeah, I don't have a pool table, but I have a stick. Just in case you stumble upon one. I've had it yeah so uh yeah i don't have a pool table but i have a stick just in case you stumble upon i've had it for so long i don't know so that fucking table has balls yeah i guess i'm gonna need those i used to have one in new york so i had the just that's actually a great thing though just stand next to a pool table sans balls just holding the queue just holding the queue just wait what's happened or just stand in the back with no

pool table at all just stand there with a pool queue and just have people go the fuck is that kind of table really because people would look around the room like yeah there's got to be a table right wander and go where's the pool table like chalk your queue and everything like chalk it up put it in your pocket hold it like act like you're about to take a shot screw together yeah and stand at the people just going is he the fuck is that is there a back room? What's that door? I thought that was outside.

That's a back room, I guess. He's holding the pool. He must be waiting for next game. I don't know. They only allow the participants in.

I have no idea how it works. I think that's a great idea. That's a fucking, try that, somebody please. Just stand next to a back door in a bar and just be like,

it's in there. Yeah. You'd be like, someone will ask you, is there a table? Just be like, yeah, it's in there. Yeah. You'd be like, someone will ask you, is there a table? And just be like, yeah, it's right there. Fucking emergency exit sign. Like, don't listen to that. They just put that up so you don't know.

It's kind of a private room. They're very much like a speakeasy. It's for regulars. Only the good people know it's there. You got to know it's there. You just push it open. Push it right open. And people just walk out the emergency exit.

Fucking alarm sounding. Door shuts behind them. Door shuts behind them. They're locked out in an alley. Next thing you know, this guy's out there to try to rape their daughter. Perfect. It's perfect. Guys, this is what I need you to do.

Everyone out there, please. Go stand in the back. Chalking up a queue. Really look like you got it. Like you're right. You know, I got to chalk this. Like it's your shot. Keeps coming off.

It's all shiny. Got gotta chalk it up oh i want to hear about it if you do that please please get at us on social media if you do that yeah if you can but otherwise just tell us what happened because i'm curious so they walked there from the nursing home with him he's got the handle of a pool stick and around it, around the pool stick, he had put a bunch of gray duct tape around it and make it like heavier. Like you do with a wiffle bat. Like on the tip? Like on the handle and the tip. If you ever do like, if you play wiffle, get a wiffle bat and a tennis ball, you duct tape

up the wiffle bat up the whole way. You got to duct tape the handle too or else it'll fold in half with the thing. And you can hit a tennis ball 700 feet. It's amazing. I have a wiffle bat. It's really awesome. You watch me do the math of how far that goes. It's about 700 feet.

That's so far, dude. I'm telling you. And the bat's heavy as fuck. Because you'll do it. Make it the width of a regular bat. An inch of duct tape all around it. It's heavy as shit. And when you make contact, it's just you'll do it make it the width of a regular bat like you know an inch of duct tape all around it it's heavy as shit and when you make contact it's just like boom this fucking tennis ball flies so far it's amazing though you feel like fucking giancarlo stanton you're just like this is great i'm hitting fucking jacking bombs out of this place i'm dead fucking well

i'm dead fucking williams i'm the best fucking hitter in this game son of a no limp dick cocksucker's gonna put a fuck crack listen to crime and sports this week if you don't get that reference because uh you will if you get it so it's very lacking balls down the street yeah so he's got a duct taped up pool cue and also pieces of this of a bunch of sheer material like a curtain or a tablecloth that he already had in his car all prepared he had pieces and then she had the strips of towel it's teamwork jimmy isn't hers home that's terrific crafts yeah it's nice little rhinestones on them it's bedazzled work when we meet up it's nice and then he gives her on the way to the house he hands her a survival knife

gives her like a you know a knife basically just in case i don't know she's got a knife now so uh he creeps up into the house by himself uh opens the door kind of goes in for 10 seconds or so and then pops back out the door and waves her inside he goes in first to you know make sure it's very chivalrous very sweet very chivalrous no no i'll go make sure first and then see a murder equivalent of putting your jacket on a puddle. That's what it was. It was exactly what it was. Chivalrous.

It's nice. He he goes in, gets her. And as they go down the hall, they look around a little bit. And as he as they go down the hall, April could hear Jones talking. Jones says, who is it what who is it yelling out there because she could hear noises who is it what's going on is what she hears from the bedroom then what ends up happening is gary walks up to the bedroom door where the and jones is and it's locked so he kicks it open which sounds like about the most frightening thing a human being could

experience being in your own bed right in your own home you hear the door rattle and then a boot and then literally door flies off fucking hinges and you got some crazed fuck with a duct taped up pool cue and a teenager in tow and a bunch of pieces of fucking with a knife and a bunch of pieces of material this is a nightmare yeah like literally this is what people have nightmares about. And it's someone you now recognize because... That's the other thing. Oh, Jesus, I've snitched that man out.

He doesn't like me. Right. It's not, oh, this is somebody that I've never seen before. Maybe they want money. He's pissed. And I see she's got a knife and he's got a fucking pool cue and they don't look happy and this is not okay. And it's the middle of the night.

This woman was sleeping, for Christ's sake. I mean, this is the most terrifying thing, literally, that could happen to a human being. So, yeah, he ends up, he does that. According to what April says, Ann Jones pleads with them not to hurt her, obviously. I mean, she doesn't tell them to fuck off, get out of my place, you're drunk. She says, please don't hurt me. But they told her that she's going to die. That's what they said.

Oh, no, you're going to die. Which, again, horrible. So what ended up happening now is Gary hits Jones several times with the pool stick. Starts beating her with the pool stick over the head and across the body and face. He's fucking wailing on her with a pool stick over the head and across the body and face he's fucking wailing on her with a pool cue which is horrifying half a pool cue too which is a lot of force if it was longer it would be less forceful the fat part it's yeah it's not great um so eventually ann jones falls across her bed and becomes silent and stops moaning so at this point it's probably

when he fractured her skull and rendered her unconscious one would imagine here now uh april too april has some some confusion on chronology here and there but the story all comes together pretty pretty seamlessly um apparently uh at some point during all of this uh she comes to again uh jones because at some point joe at some point during all of this, she comes to again, Jones, because at some point he's trying to gag Jones to stop her from screaming. So that's where the gag came from, because she's screaming. And then that's when he ties her up with the strips of towel and the sheer material that she's got all over her when they found her. Somewhere in there, that happened, where he wh found her. Somewhere in there that happened, where he whacked her, she fell, came around again, and then he ended up trying to tie her up

and all that sort of thing. She also says, April, says that Gary tightened the terrycloth strip around Anne's neck, causing her to gasp at that point. She heard a gasp come from Anne Jones, and then she said that uh she actually jumped in april jumped in herself and hit ann in the head two times with the pool cue while he was trying to you know keep her at bay he said you give her a whack and she came over and hit her

with the pool cue to to participate i guess to help i don't know or she's fucking horrified and just wants it to stop wants it to stop that's what i mean or don't know. Or she's fucking horrified and just wants it to stop. Wants it to stop. That's what I mean. Or she could be scared. Or she's a coked up teenager who's been told to hit somebody in the head. All right, crack, crack. I don't fucking know. I mean, who knows?

Honestly. Like this? Am I doing good? Yeah. 14. 14 is the type of age, too, where some 14-year-olds are like 18-year-olds. Some 14-year-olds are like 10-year-olds. Right.

And everything in between. So we don't know what her level of maturity is either way not mature enough to be going out with an adult man but you know it's crazy we don't know what her it's mental state is that a 14 year old does something and does it well you know yeah they're bad at everything she doesn't know what she's doing yeah just i'm surprised she didn't hit him in the balls with the stick by accident that's kids are bad at shit, basically. They're known for it. My son's 12.

I tell him to rinse his plate. And watching a child rinsing a plate before it goes in the dishwasher, I'm just like, why did I even tell him to do that? Why don't I just do that? There's water everywhere splashing out of the sink. Yeah, shit splashed all over the place. You are terrible at that. Yeah, my son is a fucking mess with stuff.

Why are you so bad at that? It's so easy. My son cannot fucking plug the HDMI thing back into where it was from his fucking Nintendo Switch when he comes over with it. He refuses to. So then I turn the TV on

and I'm on the Apple TV and I'm clicking it and I'm like, why won't the fucking Apple TV come on? And I'm like, oh, because it's not fucking plugged into the goddamn television. That's why, because fucking it's so fucking plugged into the goddamn television that's why because

fucking it's so somebody just yanked it out and left it that's what happens so imagine that imagine me trying to murder with him it wouldn't be good no Joey again no put it I said in the oh my god I swear you know what never mind never

mind we're not torturing we're killing I try to take you along for some bonding, a nice father son murder, and you just can't do anything right. I'm sorry. How far apart are knees and heads, Joey? Jesus Christ. Fucking knees. That's literally what's going on here.

So that would be me with my son. So he hits her twice. Now, it's at this point that Jesus Christ. This is not this all isn't brutal. But from here on in for the next couple of minutes, it's a little rough here. What he does next. And this is how April describes to the police officers. Gary turns Jones over on her stomach and tries to have sex with her.

Tries to anally penetrate her here. He tries to rape an unconscious woman is what he's trying to do. She's unconscious at this point. Yeah. So he then can't do it, though. Can't make it work for whatever reason. So he complains about this, stops and looks over to April, literally upset and goes, she tightened up on me. Oh, boy.

That's what he said. That's the grossest thing I've ever heard. Pissed off. Yeah. And then that's when he slapped her on the right buttock very hard is from what April said. She he was pissed that he couldn't that he couldn't get in. Couldn't get it. My God.

So it's at that point that he says, that he couldn't get in couldn't get it my god so it's at that point that he says well let's see april i mean obviously i'm trying to trying to rape an unconscious woman here um she won't work with her let's just have sex me and you instead what right here so you know i'm all jacked up now yeah um, you know, why don't I go from trying to, you know, rape a corpse to a teenager instead? Why is he? How is he even capable? How is this not doesn't render your sexual urges fucking null and void? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Wow. If I see this, I'm the last thing I'm not is like, I'm going to go fuck now. They'll never going to enter my mind. Never. It might be a few days before that thought enters my fucking mind. If ever again. And it won't. And as long as that picture's in my mind, I'm not going to be thinking about it for a while.

We're still in the room. It's not in my mind. It's literally right there. That's what I mean. I turn my head, back in my head. She is fucking still breathing here. And he's like, well, let let's have sex me and you then so oh my god okay well let's get right into it after the two of them undressed um okay well

here we go say this 15 times sorry to keep resetting but it's crazy shit it's wild um and i'm uh laughing out of a severe discomfort here he then takes he collects a shitload of blood yeah from the victim and rubs it all over both of their bodies what the fuck man april and himself no they cover each other in blood okay head to toe smear but he smears blood all over both of them and they have sex like that on the floor next to the bed where she is dying they covered each other in blood and had sex with each other like this well covered in blood um okay so okay let's got it let's gather our thoughts there um just the psychology behind that is i don't even know where to start

with that i mean the beginning is you're having sex with a child yeah okay but that's that's terrible but it's at least something that we're familiar with he has made that uh much less this is like that's like the sixth grossest thing he's done this week is have sex with a child so which is saying something. That's saying something. He just makes that much easier to stomach. I mean, it's like I said, it's all subjective, I guess. I mean, relatively compared to what's happening now.

Oh, boy. And then I'm going to kill her because she told on me. What did he think? He was going to fucking be with some teenage girl forever? Yeah. Yeah. She told on you. Relationship's over? He was going to fucking be with some teenage girl forever? Yeah. Yeah. She told on you. Relationship's over.

Fucking move on and find an adult. Instead, he's going to take revenge on this woman. After feeding a child coke. After giving a child cocaine. Oh, boy. And then having blood-soaked sex next to a dying woman. I don't even know. Oh, shit, man.

Why would you want to wipe the person's blood off? And it's not just a little. They didn't put some war paint. They fucking covered each other in blood. I mean, that's why there's blood everywhere. The thing all rubbed all over the floor. The daughter didn't understand because of the way it was. If she was tied up, how the hell did she get on the floor and back up without leaving a

trail smeared? That doesn't make sense. She didn't. She didn't. Well, it gets worse,immy it gets worse somehow um it is at this point that april says gary insisted that they have not gone far enough um obviously they've done what they've done it is at this point that he says that they need to drink some of the victim's blood oh good christ that's the only thing that's going to make this better now they don't take like

they don't like dip their finger in it like you're testing a sauce or something you know what i mean you drink that's you know what i mean get like a teaspoon and you know like you're taking your medicine yeah like like it's dimetap or some shit i don't fucking know you're taking your medicine? Yeah, like it's Dimetap or some shit. I don't fucking know. Like you're giving her her teenage motrin? Yeah, you know what? She would still qualify to take children's medicine. Like you're giving her her liquid children's Tylenol that tastes like cherry. Or bubblegum. Yeah, or bubblegum.

That's what's going on here. This is nuts. Instead, he produces shot glasses that he has yeah uh but it turns out that they're the they're the victim shot glasses she has a shot glass collection which i'm sure has a dollywood logo on it um so he they filled two he fills two shot glasses with april jones's blood oh that's so much blood. And they do a little salute. And they fucking do shots of this woman's blood. Oh, my word.

While they're covered in blood and nude, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Hope nobody's eaten through all this. Oh, boy. Because this is rough, okay? How do you? I don't get from A to B here.

Well, they said, why did you do this toil uh why did gary did he say why he wanted to do this and he said that both having sex while they were smeared in her blood and drinking their blood he said quote we'd receive power from it oh boy that's what he told her we're gonna receive power from this um yeah she said so they were like is this like a devil worship thing or what's going on here and she said that she quote dabbled with a little satanism but you know that that wasn't a it wasn't about there wasn't any ritual thing she's you know she dabbles here and there who doesn't you know how it is uh but yeah they each drank a shot glass full of blood um then she said that she went to the bathroom to try to throw up but didn't throw

up i tried to throw it up but my body loved it my body just kept it down i any point in this i could have thrown up at will like if i was in that room yeah literally at any point and during this whole thing you could have said how about now and i went no problem like on fucking command anything the beating the blood the sex the fucking blood smearing the the everything the thought of going to prison for fucking a child makes me want to throw that's what i mean that alone the thought of fucking a child makes me want to throw up never mind going to prison for it too because that's both it's a great point it's jesus. Yeah, you got to do the first part,

which is the gross part. That's worse than prison. But I'm saying it for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How does he even get to this point? How do you get even close to here? This is so horrific. If you throw a rock through the shop window

and fucking run away, that's it. Hey, revenge is mine. Like, what are you doing? Who does this? She's got to now book a place to fix the window yeah it's a pain in the ass she's gotta put like cardboard up she's gotta have somebody guard it until it gets fixed otherwise people could just go in her shop and take everything it's a bad whatever rains right it's a fucking bad day instead he's like nope i'm gonna drink

her blood first i'll bathe in it of course but then i'll drink it yeah so all for telling how old he really is that's it that's her that's her crying slightly pissing him off oh my god to try to help a woman you know look out for her 14 year old daughter it's not like she did anything that was out of line for protecting a child this is normal like this isn't like how dare she go out of her way to fuck me over and like no she just did the right thing that any normal minded human adult person would fucking do try to protect a teenager against this asshole so um yeah uh she said that she went to throw up but she didn't when she returned to the bedroom after throwing up after trying to throw up she saw gary again repeatedly striking jones in the back with

the pool cue yeah so i just kept wailing on her just to i don't know if he was bored you know you're in the bathroom i got nothing to do yeah you know no social media scroll through back then you just my drinking buddy left yeah you just beat a dead woman with a pool cue wow so uh at that point she they were like all right well let's find out what's in her purse so she says gary dumped out the contents of her purse and uh as they left they took what appeared to be to her she said a large amount of money it's probably the store's take for the day i assume now uh outside she said they got outside and he asked her for the knife back which if i'm her i'm like, I'm not giving you shit.

I am always going to have a weapon if I'm around you at this point. Like, that's it. I don't trust your shit anymore at all. No fucking way. But she gave him back the knife and he uses it to cut the telephone lines. He cuts the telephone lines with the knife. Now? Now, afterwards. Because she wasn't going to get to the telephone lines with the knife. Now? Now, afterwards,

because she wasn't going to get to the phone and he knew that, but he wanted to make it look like it was like this planned, organized thing. Who knows who she pissed off? She might be in with the mafia. She might have gotten upside down with the people at the Sinatra Rat Pack Museum.

You know how they get. So who knows here? Yeah. I heard the people with the sinatra rat pack museum and you know how they get so who knows here yeah uh i heard the people with the i heart new york store oh jesus christ i heart pigeon ford shirt store it's it's it's war it's war down here we're going to war with paula dean her and her goddamn pirate logging adventures whatever the fuck she had, lumberjack bullshit. It's her people. I know it. They always cut the phone lines. So, yeah, they empty it out.

She takes the money. He cuts the telephone lines, and that's that. Now, where do they go? They're covered in blood. So, I mean, when you're leaving, yeah, they're covered in blood. I mean, they jump in the shower. No, they got covered in blood. I mean, jump in the shower now. They got to go back to the old folks home to get the car. Well, first they go down behind a store into a river and try to wash off in a river.

Okay. That's their plan. Okay. They just like jump in a river and bathe in a river. Okay. That's clean. All right. I'm sure very clean did

she bring the toothbrush for this i know this is uh he took the toothbrush not her oh really yeah yeah he ended up with the two he has it right now uh we'll find out so where do they go next they drove to dollywood where they i swear to god you just butchered a woman then raped a child bathed in that woman's blood what are you gonna do i'm going to dollywood what the fuck are you doing i heard there's whores there what the fuck are you doing what'd they go to dolly i'm going to dollywood they go there to sell like as a day they go they fucking went to dollywood where they met several people. What? Went to sing a fucking code of many colors? The fuck are you doing?

It's the middle of the night. I don't know if it's just a hangout spot. Meet me at Dollywood. Wow. What the fuck? I gotta go get a cup of ambition. That's what I mean. What is happening?

My mind is just, I don't even know what to... I can't believe it, Ty. I guess. That's what I mean. They went to fucking Dollywood. That's unbelievable. I'm going to Dollywood. They met several people there, one of whom is a guy named Kevin Carver, who threatened April with harm if she, quote, got Gary in trouble. Oh.

So, yeah, apparently, I think that means because she's young. Right. Probably. in trouble oh so yeah apparently i think that means because she's young right probably is what we don't there's no reference whether he knows about the murder or whether it's just he's she's 14 he's threatening to beat up a child for telling on his friend for who fucks kids who fucks for molesting a child what is it that's normal sane people in this absolutely not no nobody i mean apart from the person they just killed apart from from April's mom and fucking Ann Jones? No, I think there's one woman sleeping and the other one's been murdered. Those are the only two sane people in town.

This is unbelievable. This is fucking ridiculous. So, yeah, later that morning, several people saw Gary when he arrived at Settler's Village because he came back there the next morning because he had to work there. He was wearing only cut off jeans and tennis shoes. Class. He's all class all the way. All class. And he's got scratches

all over his back and stomach and face. So you'd think he'd put a fucking shirt on to cover those. Wow. It looks like he got mauled by a tiger. He was bush hogging. Yeah. Oh, that's what it is. Out in the pucker brush. Yeah, that's how it works. You got to bush hog the pucker brush or else it gets out of tiger. He was bush hogging, James. Yeah, oh, that's what it is. Oh, out in the pucker brush? Yeah, that's how it works there. You got to bush hog the pucker brush or else it gets out of control.

You know how it is, right? If you don't bush hog the pucker brush, you're going to be in trouble. You don't know what grows in there. And when you do, you will get scratched up. You're going to get scratched up. You got to take it off. Otherwise, what ends up happening is these little animals get trapped in there. These little dingleberries, they call them them they get trapped in the pucker brush so uh he is

uh wearing all of this he's got scratches on his back stomach and face and uh also several people saw what they described as quote dried blood all over him as well wow so he didn't even bathe well they just dipped in the river real quick which blood's sticky it's hard to get off you gotta rub on it a little bit yeah it dries up yeah if you've ever made yourself bleed and had blood all over yourself and had to wait a minute to wash it off you know you gotta kind of give it a scrub kind of a pain in the ass washcloth helps yeah it's a good thing you know you need a little like texture right to get it off your skin there it's difficult so um april's mother sees him because they go to the shop and he's not supposed to be seeing her but he still is and it's kind of

a weird so april's mother commented to him rather than get away from my daughter or i'll stab you in the face which should have been her comment right instead her comment was that uh told him that he quote looked like some sort of wild woman got a hold of him the night before. So now you're making like this is your daughter's too old to be with her boyfriend. So you're making sexual references to this is a weird thing to do of a woman whose age appropriate and is really fucking horny. That's what I mean. So he just kind of made a little little kind of like a like one of those little smirk type of deal and he said quote no i just got in a fight over a beer in a bar in newport and then he went

in the store's restroom and cleaned himself up he's like oh shit i didn't realize it was such a fucking mess so you know it's all coming back oh wow they're all noticing. So another guy, April's mother's boyfriend, Robert Yoakum, he teased Gary about the blood. And Jesus Christ. And Gary told him that, quote, a bitch had hit him in the head with a beer bottle. That's where all the blood came from. Damn bitches and beer bottles. You know how that goes. And they were like, that sounds about right.

that sounds about right okay now again this is the the mother's boyfriend of the 14 year old that you're wanting to be an item with right you're like i've gotten a fight in a bar over a beer and some bitch hit me with a beer bottle anywhere near your 14 year old or not no okay that's what i thought here uh coffer and then took april aside and warned her not to tell what had happened listen you know fucking because they're gonna ask you questions too you don't say shit about it so uh the two of them left the shops with yokum as well and they went to april's mother's house why is he allowed to be anywhere near her i don't fucking know where he actually went and took a shower now yeah fully cleaned up here later that day he spray painted his car silver yeah spray painted his car it's

the class yeah he's all class cut off jeans fucking fucked up sneakers spray painting a classic car that's trash as it gets right there that is panhandle behavior if nothing else in this show has been that is the most bad handle so uh and he tells april it's to prevent anyone who might have seen it the night before from identifying it obviously well yeah it was a 442 but uh no it wasn't it wasn't a drippy spray painted one it was a different color i think they might get the hit that's been quickly spray painted no no except the one i saw didn't have just drips of spray paint coming off of it, so different car, I think.

Clearly not that one. Not that one, obviously. Same license plate, but, you know. It wasn't still sticky. Yeah, it was a different car. Tom Bentley, who worked on Gary's car sometime after this murder, he said that he had

used pieces of blue terry cloth cloth towel that he found in the trunk of the car uh as grease rags so uh yeah there were the same ones that were used to tie he said that the rags matched the toweling that he was shown later on at trial so the rags match oh that feels fucking gross yeah he used that as grease rags yeesh uh and when bentley uh had asked him why he wanted to paint the car coffern replied well that the lady that just got killed somebody might recognize it and i need to paint it that's what he told this guy why wouldn't he just go yeah just felt like change not a fan of yellow looking for a change nope the lady that got killed somebody Somebody might recognize it.

That's what he says. He's not very bright here. A Jimmy Lynn Huxley also here. That's a husky. Sorry. Jimmy Lynn Husky. He testifies later on here. He talks about in 1986 because the police are talking all his friends when he and Gary were friends.

Gary, quote, used to draw demons and stuff okay i don't know what the fuck god has to do with anything and that he had a pool stick that came apart like the one uh like the one they described to him something like that and that he kept light colored lace tablecloth or curtain material in his car similar to the sheer material used to bind two of those things are relevant to this marvel exactly exactly and also here's another thing that that uh gary had talked to jimmy lynn husky about tying up women during sex and that quote slapping them on the butt really turned him on so yeah now uh april's mother she says that she had sold uh had sold gary a silver ring with turquoise and coral inlay with a Thunderbird design on it a few months before the murder. That's not good.

This is the she ends up saying it's the one that Christy Jones Scott found in the driveway. Not good. Not good. Not good. It's as this is all bad yeah for him so while uh while he was staying at her house shortly out because she he they let her him stay at their house why um well yeah shortly after that cruise noticed that he quote had an odd toothbrush for a man it was a pink brush with a little rubber tip and uh it is an oral a pink oral b toothbrush same model and same whatever that the daughter

described missing from her mother's house wait a minute yes he stole the toothbrush to use as his toothbrush that's crazy yeah he's like well i need a toothbrush that's the weirdest part of this we've never had a murder where someone was like i'm gonna steal all the shit in the purse that toothbrush looks good is that are those blue bristles still blue at the end? Oh my God, Jesus. That's not even replaced yet. I got three months left on this one. This is going to be great.

Gross. This is, yeah, takes her toothbrush to use it. Is it more gross to steal a toothbrush to use it or to fuck in the blood? I was going to say probably fuck bathed in the blood and probably drink the blood would probably rank higher. I think fuck a child in the blood is the grosser part all right let's let's let's do a let's figure out for one we gotta do like a triage here all right number one yeah fucking a child a child rape bathed in blood that's number one yeah that's

the worst uh drinking said blood that's a that's second. Yeah. It's a hard second blood. It really is. Like, it's up there with a bullet. Like, it's close. I'm thinking of, like, disease ability. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely it.

You're in the right spot so far. And then the toothbrush comes after that. Because you could use somebody's toothbrush that has AIDS, and you may not get AIDS. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. Or HIV, yeah. If you drink their blood, you're probably going to get it. Maybe.

Maybe. I don't think he cares much for that either way. I'll bet it's a closer chance of getting it if you put the blood inside you. Yeah, I would assume. And if you just brush your teeth. I'm surprised he didn't just jam it in his vein. Right.

If you bring a syringe, I'm going to shoot a... Jesus Christ. So this is crazy. Wow. So what ends up happening, they arrest April and Gary here. They arrest him.

Three inmates who are incarcerated with Gary in the Cook County Jail testified later on about statements that he made to them concerning everything. made to them concerning everything. In the summer of 1988, a guy named Tim Magaha asked Gary if he had committed the murder and he said that Gary just smiled and he told Magaha that he had been drunk and partying the night of the murder. Then, he called

Ann Jones a bitch and said that he also told Magaha that he lost his ring while he was there. Coffin told another prisoner, Roy Haynes, that on the night of the murder, he and his girlfriend had driven to a house on Cove Road or Cove Mill Road. The and Jones lived on Cole Drive. So close enough. Cove Road, Cole Road in Pigeon Forge.

And that from that point, he, quote, couldn't remember nothing. He was so messed up on cocaine so he took the cocaine that's a lot of and that makes you want to drink blood yeah it's weird because a lot of people did coke in the 80s and they still do it now and uh there wasn't a lot of blood drinking going on due to the coke taking you know no one sniffed it was like fuck dude empty a vein into a shot glass for many people that there been many people that blacked out on Coke? You know what I mean? I mean, it happens. Like you do with booze?

It's not the same thing. Yeah, it's not the same. I mean, he could be real high, but I don't think he can afford to get that high. Right. You know what I'm saying? That's my point. If he's rattle canning a car. With fucking Tennessee Coke, 80s Tennessee Mountain Coke, that wasn't good.

That shit had been stepped on 40 times by the time it got there. Are you kidding me? He couldn't even buy a gun. No. He whole pool cube fuck yeah that's his weapon good god so uh he ends up telling another guy here in prison uh coffern does that when he woke up the next morning he had blood all over him and he did not know whether or not he killed ann jones didn't know whether she was dead or what. Then he saw a newspaper article mentioning the homicide, and immediately he

thought about his girlfriend snitching on him. He was like, she's going to snitch on me. I know it. They found her, like they weren't going to find her in her fucking house. Another inmate, a guy named Bobby Floyd, he says that Gary told him that the victim was a bitch as well, and that who had threatened to, quote, tell some girl's mother how old he was.

And that the the only evidence that police had against him was an article of clothing with blood on it. And, quote, the only mistake I made was involving April because she's going to tell on me. So and also also killing people, drinking blood, raping children. There's a lot. He's done a lot. It's a potpourri, really, to use a Seinfeldism there. It's fucking crazy. He's really bringing it all together.

It's a lot. You're making a stew, sir. Your own stew, to reference last week. So the charges here. Coffin, he pleads innocent to first-degree murder, rape, burglary, and robbery. Lots of stuff here. Here's something odd. I did some research, and I found something really weird that I don't know if it explains

it or what, or if it's a piece of the puzzle. Okay. His mother, Gary's mother, Shelby June Coffrin, and his middle name is June, I assume, like his mom. It's the only reason why I'm positive that they're related and from the same town also. She died on March 24th 1986 right before he really kicked his weirdness in the fifth year so i'm wondering if there's something about that that when we hear about his background in a second i don't know if something about that is a trigger or what she's looking for a trigger because a lot of times that's what they do.

The profilers, they look for where's the trigger. Yeah. Where is the fucking tipping point? What's the thing that makes this person go veer off the path they're on? And it might be that based on this. We'll talk about it here. Now, pretrial beginning in June 1988 with the first statement she gave police April there ending with the sixth and last one she gave him in november 1988 april ward made six pre-trial statements no two of which were completely alike by the way because they were all bleeding they were like one is this and a little more than a

little more than a little more it's one of those uh now from the beginning of this police and prosecution tried to shield april and the information she had given from the defense attorneys which you can't really do that's kind of yeah not okay that's a brady violation if there's anything that could be exculpatory and you're not telling them about it or you're just not giving them the info so they could study it and come up with a defense for it so you have to do that so even if it's not exculpatory so during the course of the investigation the uh police directed april ward's mother not to let april talk with gary's defense counsel which i i don't know if you're supposed to be able to interview witnesses but if they're children i don't know how that works they should be able to

talk to the defense attorney let's just yeah let him talk to him well with your attorney may be present as well i would think it would be okay or i don't know how that works so prosecuting attorney something yeah so uh ward was basically under house arrest there they she like wasn't allowed to leave the house going up to the trial which cut off any access to the defense council it's kind of what they did there now in response to the uh he had a pre-trial brady motion seeking disclosure which that's what that is on material evidence favorable to the defense and the prosecutor failing to defy to provide the defense counsel with copies of her prior inconsistent statements so he does that pre-trial none of that shit bears out for him so the trial

comes around in february 1990 and some very crazy shit comes out here so uh she waives her right against self-incrimination obviously obviously, to do this. Prior to the trial, the defense also requested a competency hearing for April. She was 17 at the time during the trial, but she's a juvenile. At the hearing, the judge asked her some general questions, some questions about how she was doing in school, that sort of shit, and how her counseling was proceeding. And some questions about her awareness of her testimony. And he declared her competent to testify. Basically, are you a living, breathing human that seems to know where you are?

Then you're fine to testify. But, yeah, so there's also some juror issues. The record shows that juror Jerry McGill was related to a state's witness named john brown by marriage brown was a patrolman with the county sheriff's department who had investigated him uh who had investigated gary when he received a call on july 13th about his gary's car being in a ditch so uh at the trial he'll testify that gary appeared nervous and had a small cut on his face. So, yeah. Now, the second episode occurred here when state witness Tom Diddley. Yeah, Tom Diddley recognized one of the jurors as the owner of a wrecker service that had towed Gary's car when the other witness had worked on it.

So this is all too small of a town here. And the defense counsel indicated he would address the problem later, but apparently never did. So where a juror is not legally disqualified or there's no inherent prejudice, the burden is on the defense to show that the juror is some way biased if it's not obvious. Also here we got Jimmy Husky testifying, old Jimmy Husky. And he testifies that, you know, in 1986 that he used to gary would listen to hard rock music and drew sketches of demons and stuff stuff like on album covers he said god i'm such a terrible person had a pool cue that broke down into three pieces and light uh light tablecloth curtain material in his car and he always talked about tying women up during sex

and that slapping women on the butt really turned him on so he testifies to that now april gets on and the the thing is when she when she gets here the prosecutors turn over copies of the witness statements to the defense attorneys on the first night of the trial and basically it's over a hundred pages worth of shit and she's going to testify like immediately so the next day they're going to have to process 100 pages of all her statements find the inconsistencies come up with questions that can get in between her story you need more than a night to do that usually so it's uh the statements of 20 potential state witnesses and this is you know hours before the trial is going to come back on so the next day the trial judge refused to recess trial following her testimony despite defense counsel saying that he had not

had adequate time to review the pre-trial statements and was unprepared to cross-examine her uh as a result the defense counselor counsel was uh prevented from gathering information they could have when to interview her they could have talked to other people there's a lot of shit you do backs backstory when you you know cross-examine someone in a fucking murder trial especially one with this much gross you got to make sure you get this right yes exactly exactly and it's a it's a teenage witness so you got to play it very carefully somebody's overwhelmed with this one that's the thing it's a yeah it's ridiculous he was also denied discovery of her statements prior to trial and he was forced to conduct cross-examination uh without the benefit of adequate preparation

it also indicates that uh despite the defense's timely motion for disclosure the prosecutor never did produce the inconsistent statements that she gave to police officers that could have impeached her testimony um now uh they didn't do it until the night before the trial. The evidence was favorable to the defendant because it's different. It's, you know, fucking testimony that's contradictory. That's good for him. The first day was a lot of rulings on unfinished pretrial bullshit and all that sort of thing. First day of the trial, defense counsel's request for the production of witness statements and all that sort of thing here.

So he's saying that he didn't get it till 715 the night before the trial starting today, which is fucking ridiculous. They arrested him pretty fast and held him for three years. No, no, no. No, they arrested him. It took a year to arrest him. Right, right. And then they got two years before. Two years.

Yeah, to prepare for everything. And in that two years, they never got all of her statements from police which they should have gotten pretty quickly there so uh yeah he just wants they're asking for an adjournment until the next morning to examine and prepare a cross-examination and the judge says no not at all uh does not let him do it yep they do a direct examination and there's a break in testimony to deal with something and uh it was 4 0 5 p.m and he said look i still haven't had an opportunity to read any of the prior statements he said i would ask the court to allow me to start my cross-examination in the morning and not now because i'm not prepared there's no way in the world i can

cross-examine this witness today and the trial judge responded quote no sir you have your assistant with you mr ward you have your investigator with you they do a lot of work for you and do good work for you and they've been doing good work for you for the last since about 1 30 three hours they've been looking at it i glanced at it it seems to have nothing worthwhile relevant or germane you're not the defense attorney to decide that. You've had the statements overnight. This court will not delay, but it will tell you this. I intend to quit at about 5 o'clock.

Got a new rule. It may turn my hair brown again. My complexion may return. My vigor may return. This is a judge talking in court. Sounds like he's like, I got a prescription of Cialis in the in the mail i gotta get home because it may turn my fucking hair back like a multi-level marketing thing of some fucking pill gonna help you some juice drink he said i'm going to start working about eight or ten hours a day and quit i've been working 10 12 14 hours a day for the last three

weeks and i shouldn't do that so i'm going to try to do better, and if we can, let's do it. I know I can't quit before five. There's no way in the world I can do it, but at five, I'm going to start up and quit. What is this? He's giving this thing like, I've worked too fucking hard. I've never heard a judge give a diatribe about how hard they work and how they've decided that no matter what the legal wranglings are, I need to be home for dinner. how hard they work and how they've decided that no matter what the legal wranglings are i need to be home for dinner i've just been i just left a tony robbins seminar and he said focus hard focus

get your hard work done and get the fuck out you gotta have your rest oh shit jesus christ so they're like this is unbelievable less than 10 minutes later the district attorney finished their examination of april and now the defense attorney's up for a cross-examination it's 4 12 p.m he asked for an overnight recess he told the trial judge reminded him all the other shit and the judge went nope we're good he kept looking at his watch kept looking at his shit here it's fucking wild here i am blown away yeah and a judge just interrupts it this is the justice system sir yeah you can't just tell us justice takes a while you know when it's done it's done you don't just go something on tv i'd like to see tonight and i'm just gonna go home and watch

me and my wife have reservations at 6 30 you know i gotta get there i got a season pass i gotta go to boob mountain tonight or else I'm never going to fucking. I just like I got to relieve the stress and Boob Mountain's the only thing that can do it. So the judge said that he was powerless to require the attorney general to do something the rules in the law do not require. That is to order early production of the statements. And the defense attorney made the following statement here. But you could cure the problem at this point by giving me the amount of time necessary to properly prepare for cross-examination. This witness is the whole case. I mean, we rise or fall here if

they believe her. It's that important. I've been in your court for a long time and you don't regularly ask for the and don't regularly ask for this. And you know that. But this is a very important case. It's a very dangerous situation for this witness to step in here without my being properly prepared to cross-examine her. It would just be suicide. And the trial judge denied this, saying that the request for a recess on the ground, denied it, saying that the, quote, material is not that complex. You got, like, an Emmys person. Yeah.

The music. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Let's go. Camera's pulling back. He's like, what the fuck is this? Great. So the statements he also judge also said the statements are not that different from each other.

So it's like they're not that different. Relax. You're fine. Okay. So Jesus Christ. Parading the defense counsel for his efforts here he says quote this is what the judge says quote i will give you 10 a 10 minute recess this is before the cross-examination but you're going to cross-examine but the court observes this before anybody came into the courthouse before anybody got involved in this at all even the most thickest

neophyte in the world would know that april ward is the crucial witness the devastating witness and as you knew an experienced seasoned lawyer from uh from the front throughout and now that this witness and that this is the witness and this is the witness i don't know why he said it twice and so i hold you to that standard i'll give you 10 minutes to talk to whomever you want. We're going to cross-examine this lady. Okay? And then, following the recess, after 10 minutes, this is what the trial judge says now. This guy just likes to talk some shit. He says, quote, right now your client is at enormous risk for the death penalty.

At enormous risk. Your statement that you weren't ready to cross-examine, if the death penalty is and it may well be he's bringing it up it's a jury question of course this lawsuit's half tried and lawsuit and we don't know what course it will take or what proof is to come but at this time you're in imminent peril you have put out uh you have put incompetency of counsel in this record by not being diligent by not going over these statements and by not being prepared to cross-examine this crucial and devastating witness that's what concerns the court but the court cannot stop and wait and procrastinate he's like dan akroyd yeah i know this isn't fair and i'm doing it anyway next case that's it let's do it

but he's like setting up his own sport in here too he's setting up a clock and then giving them at the end of this clock you are going to be you're going to cross-examine if you don't have your cross-examination ready and go let's do it he's making his own sport if you do it successfully two two tickets to Dollywood on the court. This is great. So the defense here, Jesus Christ, the defense presented evidence that basically none of the tests or analysis performed by the forensic scientists from the state and the FBI had connected him with the killing. His fingerprints were not found in the house. A plaster cast of the shoe print found outside the house which could be from anyone anyone at any time could be the fedex guy who the fuck knows uh found outside the house was

consistent with a boot owned by kenneth ogle who is uh kenneth ogle had been a boyfriend of theresa goad one of the victim's uh daughters so that's how that works. So an old boyfriend of the victim's daughter, they're saying there's a print of him. Yeah, because in September 86, he broke into this home and at knife point pushed Teresa, who he was going out with, not the mother,

pushed Teresa to the bed and attempted to tie her hands with strips of sheet. What the fuck is happening in this town? Why is everybody so into bondage in this fucking town? And in this house. In this house and violent nature.

So they're saying, what about that guy? But that guy never threatened the mother or did anything to the mother. He was after this woman he was upset about. So three witnesses testified that Gary was in the habit of spray painting his junker cars different colors. His aunt testified that on the Friday night night after he brought bought a green and white oldsmobile he came to his grandmother's house grandmother's house at around 11 or 12 and went to bed which is definitely not true so who knows uh there's another statement here kenny phillips uh who's an inmate uh here uh with him he says that uh he gave a statement to law

enforcement where he talked about uh he says that uh that uh two persons that he gave a statement to law enforcement where he talked about he says that that two persons that he knows, a man and a woman who were not Gary and April Ward here had approached him about robbing and killing a woman in Pigeon Forge, possibly the woman who was killed, but maybe not. So someone said, I'm going to kill this lady. And he's like, well, must have been them killing her then. Yeah, he didn't give the woman's name. So that's his big defense. They didn't say who? Someone else wanted to kill a woman in town at some point. Maybe not that woman, but some other woman.

So why not kill this one? Who knows? Wow. When the time came for him to testify, he refused this guy because he's full of shit. Because he said his earlier statements were lies concocted to get a reward offered for any evidence that would help solve the murder okay yeah which is we get a lot of that yeah a lot of this a lot of the snitching that goes on is fucking reward money wow because if you're really broke and there's an 800 reward yeah that's enough motivation to turn someone in

for murder even if you know and kenny's an inmate he's trying to get time yeah and you can justify in your head by going well if he did it anyway who cares you know like what the fuck that's how people do it so uh yeah he refused saying that he couldn't do that even though the trial court explained to him that as long as he testified truthfully he wouldn't be committing perjury he said that he would not testify as he would have said i'll just tell the truth and they said just tell the truth then And they said, just tell the truth. Then they went, nope. So the trial court held him in contempt. He was already in jail.

So that wasn't really a big loss for him. Defense counsel that then argued that he should be allowed to read this Phillips previous statements into evidence because Phillips was unavailable. And noting the statements were admitted falsehoods. The trial court refused to allow their introduction. Makes sense. Now, also witnesses not called. This is a problem here. Quickly.

They want a continuance because they wanted to call Officer Tippins, who's one of the first officers on the scene the day of the murder, and evidence he alleged Tippins possessed was his knowledge there were groceries in the victim's trunk when the body was discovered i don't know what difference that makes this testimony according to gary here would tend to show that the victim never had a chance to bring in her groceries before she died and that was thus attacked outside of her house and dragged inside okay tippins was unavailable to come to the trial because of back problems now the trial court refused to continue the case

because tippin's testimony would be uh cumulative in light of the fact that there were several uh other investigating officers who have the same knowledge he's not the only cop that came to the scene it's a fucking murder scene there was 10 people there so at the trial he also gary also elicits uh christy scott christy jones scott who is the daughter of the victim, the testimony that she unloaded two or three bags of laundry detergent from her mother's trunk that she found after her mother died. It wasn't groceries. In grocery bags, but it was laundry detergent, which is something you might just leave in your trunk. Yeah, because it doesn't matter. Yeah, exactly.

I'll leave a 12-pack of soda or whatever in the trunk or even laundry detergent or whatever. You take bags and you're like, I'm not going out again just for that. Fuck it, it's staying in the trunk. And this was in June or July? July. It was hot. It's hot.

You don't want to go out there. I'll go out when the sun goes down. Exactly. Who gives a shit? So the groceries don't matter there. And also regarding the need to investigate persons named as suspects by that one guy there. Basically, they said he lied.

So there's that. They said that the trial court felt that the defendant had failed to exercise due diligence in examining the door. One of the allegations is regarding the need to examine the bedroom door. Gary sought to show that the footprint on the door was larger than his foot, than his footprint would have been. They said the door had been made available to the defense for examination well before the motion. They never examined it. That's their fucking problem.

Basically, they had plenty of opportunity to there. And apparently somebody testified that the print on the door was consistent with a smooth sold shoe as opposed to the tennis shoe worn by the defendant. That's one of their defense witnesses. So finally, the trial court denied the motion for a continuance on the mistaken belief that FBI agent Doug Dedrick would would testify. Agent Dedrick's testimony was presented to the jury through stipulation. They just read it in when it became apparent that he wouldn't be at the trial. Defense counsel expressly stated he did not want a continuance because of the

stipulation, whatever. So now the, uh, the psychiatrists come into this whole thing. Uh, one of the, uh,

psychiatrists here, a Dr. Sharvot, uh, said she interviewed 40 people that knew Gary. 40. She traveled to Peoria, Illinois, where he grew up. Yeah.

And substantiated. Apparently, his upbringing is interesting, as you might imagine. Severe physical abuse and extreme emotional maltreatment and sexual abuse, which makes a lot of sense. She stated that one witness she interviewed in Peoria stated that no one had contacted them prior to the petitioner's trial, even though he knew all the shit they knew they would need it. The defense attorney should have been talking to people. they would need it the defense attorney should have been talking to people also in addition to the interviewing process she collected documents that he had attended 13 different schools which is a lot i thought i went to a lot of schools 13 is way more than that 13 is a lot that's one per grade yeah including kindergarten um 13 different schools she also learned that he was absent from

school in an ordinate amount of time and that at times agencies and schools had attempted to intervene in his family life. When the parents were contacted, though, they would just move, basically, rather than be confronted with this. They'd go to a different district. Some of the people that this doctor interviewed said that he stayed out of school on numerous occasions because he was bruised,

and that his stepfather didn't want anybody to see it, basically. Now, in the closers here the closing argument attorney general urged the jurors to consider the deliberate invasion of the home and the cruelty shown in her killing which took place obviously after she'd been beaten and bound and then the everything else so the verdict based on this it's a four-day trial yeah the jury finds the defendant not guilty of felony murder robbery and larceny but guilty of premeditated first degree murder uh first degree burglary and insult an assault

with intent to commit rape which is way worse they found it well they had the secondary in case they didn't want to convict on the first ones and they got rid of all those and they nailed them on all the first degrees. But there's so many problems with this, right? There's a lot. Sentencing comes around. He calls four witnesses, calls his aunt, Gladys Green, who told how his mother and father divorced when he was three or four years old.

According to this woman, the aunt, Gary's childhood was very unsettled. She described him as a little slow and said that he had a good attitude since he's been in jail. A lot of the dumb guys like that, if they have very low IQ and they get caught, they thrive in jail for some reason. I don't know what it is.

They like the structure. They're told what to do. I have choices. They don't know what to do. It's not easy. No. I don't know which one's best for me. You tell me what's best for me and I'll do that.

Yeah, I guess. Harold Stoffel, who's a minister in the prison, testified that, oh boy, that Gary has now accepted the word of God. Oh boy. So he's all better now. He's very respectful and was, quote, the finest young prisoner I've ever saw. Gross. Wow. Another jailer, Edward Moore, a prison corrections officer.

He said that he had never had any real problems with him since he's been in jail. Okay. A Dr. Madeline Perot, a clinical psychologist, testified that Gary's full IQ was 78. Full IQ. Full IQ. Because there's different pieces. Full of all of it. You think there's more of it?

No. We got it all. That's not his full IQ, 78. He's got another 30, 40 points hanging around somewhere. Nope. That's all of pieces. Full of all of it. You think there's more of it? No. We got it all. That's not his full IQ, 78. He's got another 30, 40 points hanging around somewhere. Nope, that's all of it. That's all of it. She said, quote, just a little above mentally retarded classification. Her words, not mine.

She said that he had been in special education classes where he'd done well. father whom this psychiatrist uh psychologist described as over overtly psychotic was an alcoholic and had physically abused his mother until their divorce now and then the stepfather also abused the shit out of him according to the history here his mother started acting quote quite wild after the divorce with drinking and dating and uh in this doctor's opinion gary had received inadequate parenting and there'd been no consistency in his relationships his stepfather had beaten and humiliated him for bedwetting also came up he felt that the gary this doctor actually said that gary would not be a physical threat to society or other prison inmates well no he's five foot three yeah not to them society he's a huge threat

on cross-examination though she conceded that gary was not insane and could conduct could conform his conduct to the dictates of the law but just chose not to the defense and arguing against the death penalty presented just this whole thing they talked about his childhood like i said his father apparently jesus christ quote talked to the birds and tapped out messages on the table and then would become mad at the children when they didn't understand them and he would beat them i don't know that language man he would talk to the birds and then literally just not morse code or just tap weird shit out and then beat the kids when they didn't get it oh Oh, boy. That's how crazy that motherfucker was. So they asked him in sentencing, do you have anything to say for yourself?

Anything at all? And he says, quote, I haven't done anything wrong, Your Honor. Oh, boy. So they say, the jurors say, you, sir, may fuck off a death penalty. Really? For Gary here. Oh, boy. may fuck off a death penalty really for gary here oh boy they give him the death penalty and the judge also imposes two consecutive 10-year sentences on the other charges the robbery and all that shit and stipulated that that the life sentence that uh life sentence that the victim

would receive uh should the death penalty be overturned would also be conserved consecutively so basically yeah he's got if if the death penalty gets overturned, he's going to serve life consecutively with 10 year sentences. So he's fucked. Basically, he ain't getting out. So appeal here in his appeal. His first thing is an underrepresentation of women on the county juries. Okay.

Because of the women would have let him off. Obviously, they would have understood they would have got it a bitch you know jesus christ her blood was just too delicious they know what it's like she lied about me these women are told the truth about me she told the truth ratted on how dare these women would have been mad yeah they did a study of the juries and he points to the fact that the uh his jury panel was only 30 women although the county is comprised of about 50 women and only 30 on his jury so that's like two extra people and it goes by you have like four men four women and then whatever the last four fill in they fill in as far as who's not

racist and who's you know doesn't have preconceived notions whatever so based on not getting a continuance for the witnesses he wanted uh he wanted april's testimony wanted all that shit tossed out so uh yeah this is all the witness statements he's really wants out and uh he says that his lawyers did not do a very good job and the attorney further admitted that he didn't request the assistance of a blood or fingerprint expert at trial which probably would have been helpful and rather dependent on the state expert. Didn't get his own expert witness, which in a murder trial, you kind of want your own expert. Probably you don't want the guy whose job it is to put you in jail to be your only fucking person testifying.

He stated that even though one of the victims introduced into evidence at trial was fingernail clippings from the victim. victims introduced into evidence at trial was fingernail clippings from the victim. And even though allegations had been made that the petitioner had scratches all over him, he didn't secure the services of an expert to test the fingernail clippings. He stated that he could not recall how many conferences he had had with his client before the trial, but that he would have not spoken to him every day or maybe every other week, possibly. He stated that he filed motions challenging the constitutionality of the death penalty and a motion requesting a change of venue,

but that he did not request an expert to investigate and testify in the effects of the possible media coverage of the whole thing, because it was a pretty big deal. So he objects to the videotapes and photographs being shown, which we get a million times. They rule that the videotape and photographs taken at the murder scene are highly probative and that they show what condition of the body and clarify oral testimony. These depictions are certainly not pleasant, but they're not shocking or gruesome.

I would disagree. My ass cheeks in blood on the floor. Yeah, that's pretty gruesome. With knees straddling good. Straddling. That looks bad. That looks gross, right? So also interruptions by the trial court. He's pissed off about. He says the trial court prejudiced the case by indicating the jury, indicating to the jury throughout the trial that the court believed that he was guilty.

specifically complains of the trial court's interruption of the cross-examination of the victim's daughter, Christy Jones Scott, and of Officer Sam Owenby, both of which interruptions were apparently attempts to keep the examination moving along, not anything else. The court's statements during the cross-examination with the doctor had told the jury, quote, just that's just what he's told them. He told the jury just what he's told them, and questions about the doctor taking fingernail clippings were academic and the answer was obvious to anyone who had watched the television show Quimby. Okay?

So they also challenged the comments of the court during direct examination about, this is about the door, to affect the record that was full of proof that the bedroom door had been knocked off as its hinges and it wasn't incorrect uh the photographs and everything showed uh basically that the wasn't the the print was actually the size it was supposed to be so he's trying to say that the footprint on the door there was a full scale photograph but if there was a smaller

photograph you would have seen it in the right scale. It's crazy. They get into, like, scale of photograph and what you'll it's fucking wild. It's really interesting here. Also, Dr. Blake here. They said that Dr. Blake, the defendant, argues that he was not qualified to characterize the injuries on the victim's back as whipping marks and that those on her buttock is a slap injury. The admission of expert testimony is at the discretion of the trial judge. And Dr. Blake is a board certified forensic pathologist and practice in that field since 1963 and has conducted twenty five hundred forensic investigations. They allowed his opinions to be his opinions. And so I like to slap ass.

And yeah, I've seen a hand. Hopefully not that hard. No, hopefully not to the point where a coroner wouldn't fucking talk about it. I also kind of like to slap ass in bed. Yeah. I've seen a handprint. Hopefully not that hard. No. Hopefully not to the point where a coroner wouldn't fucking talk about it. If you can recognize that it's a hand, you've given it a whack. That's a little too much. You've given it hell. So you've given it hell. And some people want hell, so who knows.

So not involuntarily. No, goodness no. God no. Jesus. So also statements made by the victim. He insists, Gary, that the certain testimony, or I'm sorry, not of a victim of April. involuntarily oh goodness god no jesus so also statements made by the victim he insists gary that the certain testimony uh i'm sorry not of a victim of april certain testimony of april ward and her mother concerning the statements made by the victim were inadmissible hearsay the uh first

was testimony uh objected to by the defendant that of april ward to the effect that she was upset that with jones because of a conversation that jones had had with her mother and all of that shit she said quote jones this is the april said quote no one approved of us on the porch no one approved of us on that porch and uh she hurt jones because she hated her for going to her mother and for trying to separate her from the defendant the court rejects the hearsay on that since she's an accomplice, basically. Also, the objection was April's mother had testimony that the victim had told her that she didn't get involved with other people's affairs, but she thought, quote, April was a sweet little girl and she didn't trust Gary Coffman.

So she had to get involved here. So that's how that works. They said no, no hearsay was involved. No error in bidding it. It's fine. Competency of April, they talk about. He says that the failure of the trial court to ask April whether she understood the difference between telling the truth and a lie and whether she comprehended the importance of telling the truth,

rendered the competency evaluation. Basically, that wasn't good enough because they didn't ask her that. She's not six. She's 17 at the time. She's not six. She's not a toddler on the stand telling what mommy did to your brother. You would ask an eight-year-old, do you understand what the difference between truth and a lie is? That's how you tell if an eight-year-old is competent to testify or not because they ask him shit like that a 17

year old you assume they know the difference between a lie and the fucking truth she's almost a legal adult yeah uh he also is uh appealing against jimmy husky's testimony about his demons and such uh he says the testimony involving drug use and satanic sketches and listening to rock music not rock music and drawing oh my god he's drawing and listening to rock music no i had a pentagram on my jans people had shit all over the place who cares right over the logo yeah who gives a shit so uh he said that the that this should not have been admitted there's no harmful error though there the judge says tough shit. Basically they say he, uh,

he presented those features on the character. And that was that, uh, also the testimony of, uh, uh, Letty Cruz, April's mom said that,

uh, around the time of the murder, her daughter, April was having trouble in school and crying a lot. So that's a indication that she participated. He also objects to her testimony that uh that he quote that gary quote sneaked around her house for some period of time after the murder well you were allowed him to stay there for some period so uh no nothing there recall of christy scott

who is the daughter she uh this was over the defendant's objection the court allowed the state to recall christy jones scott to testify that her mother owned a collection of shot glasses and a pink oral B toothbrush that was missing. The evidence was relevant, obviously, because the victim's blood was drank and out of shock was drank out of shot glasses. So and the defendant had her toothbrush. So, you know, that works there. Also, the he said that the attempted suicides that'd had after the questioning should never have been let in, basically. They asked him about it, and the police were allowed to testify about what he said, saying that he was depressed and had a lot on his mind. So they used that against him there.

Also, a juror's comments here. Basically, the trial court didn't declare a mistrial during cross-examination of april war at ward a defense counsel asked ward why she had lied to law enforcement officers regarding who she told about the crime and a juror loudly whispered what's the difference like who fucking cares we can't get this guy to the chair fast enough basically uh so no further mention was made of it till the next morning when the council, that was when the council said that he would like to address it later in the day and then never brought it up again. So that's how that worked here. Now, the questions about that's a juror objectivity is kind of a big deal.

But, you know, what are you going to do? Also, the trial judge's actions. They said they're not good um talking about disallowing certain witnesses and things like that um uh one interjection concerned uh mcfadden's examination whether the door was knocked off his hinges it had already been addressed and he said we're not going to talk about this again and that's one of the things that gary brings up as a point of appeal, basically. And finally, undue emphasis to aggravating circumstance.

He didn't have to say that I was that bad. That's like, I mean, yeah, we killed her and it was gross and everything, but you really played up the grossness of it. And I don't appreciate it, is basically what he says. played up the grossness of it and i don't appreciate it is basically what he says um it's yeah after a recess during which the jury went to lunch the judge informed counsel after reflection he had concluded that he should charge change the charge to conform more to the language requiring torture or depravity of mind and should define cruel torture and depravity defense council did not order a corrected charge so they had basically they had the charges worded a certain way and uh the judge said maybe we should change it and the

defense council was like i don't know we'll figure it out later and then never figured it out defense council seems to put off a lot of shit for later and then blame everybody else and then procrastinates and doesn't fucking do it yet so uh also uh last thing on this a police interference with the trial preparation keeping april ward away from the defense council so that's all what it is uh takes that to the uh appeals court and they say tough shit suck a dick uh to death row with you my friend uh may 11th 1993 this goes all the way to the state Supreme Court. The court is split three to and ends up upholding the death penalty against him here in. What is that?

May 11th, 1993. Majority opinion was written here, denied all grounds for appeals. Two of the justices said that he should get a new trial because his right to due process was violated by the police and not being able to question so we go to the supreme court so we go all the way to the united states supreme court in november of 1993 where they turn down his appeal without comment they don't even fucking say shit about it they're like nope and they're like why and they just go they go? And they just go, why? And they just go, they start writing something down. Start playing on their phones. No answer.

Playing best fiends. Sentenced to death. But February 15th, 1999, this is where you can kind of get procedural shit even after that. It's a post-conviction petition that his attorney was ineffective during the guilt and sentencing phases of his trial, that the court erred in denying his request for funds to provide certain expert and investigative services, and that there were too few women on the jury. They end up upholding his conviction, but set aside his death penalty and require a new sentencing proceeding after finding out that he was denied his constitutional right to effective counsel during the sentencing phase

of the trial. Justice has rejected his claims challenging his conviction there. His total conviction. The state didn't seek to appeal this as well. So, yeah, under the court of right to counsel violation, he is commuted to life in prison forever. Life without parole. Now, I found this December 12th, 2000. There's a funeral for a Gary Coffin.

And I was like, fuck yeah. And it's not him. Damn it. Not him. He is still alive. Wow. Still alive. He's born in 61.

Yeah, he's got a ways to go. 59 years old. He was only 30 when he went in. Oh, yeah. He was only 30 that's that's crazy he is in the northeast correctional complex here um he's been denied any kind of parole hearings in tennessee yeah he's in for life uh the yeah 1990 he went in first degree murder that's him and uh release eligibility date is 2 13 25 oh so i don't know if that's his he's eligible to start getting hearings then or what because a life sentence is only a certain length of time and that would be fucking 45 years basically from there 15 yeah he's almost there it's 45 years so i mean you know i don't know he might end up getting out one of these days uh if he is

watch out right watch out 1990 1935 35 yeah 35 years he's been in there so i mean 40 is a life term that's so that's 20 2025 so that's 40 years no that's 35 35 years yeah i don't know either way states are different i'm not sure he might be able to get out he might be able to get out someday although i would assume in a parole board hearing, you're going to look at all that stuff and he goes, so you drank shot glasses of her blood. You're really going to have some singing to do about how wrong you are. Yeah. About how crazy you were and how much cocaine you were doing and how Satan had control of

your brain and all this type of shit. And how sorry you are. How sorry you are. Now, the good thing about this, though, that's kind of funny and kind of good is this guy's clearly an asshole. Yeah. His birthday was yesterday so happy birthday fuck time fuckhead fucking enjoy northeast correctional complex asshole is that his 60th uh that is his 59th next year 61 almost there so look at him there we go that is pigeon, Tennessee. Wow. That is one of the wildest tales I think we've encountered here.

And nobody's ever gone to an amusement park afterwards. Not yet. No. That's number one. No. That's the first one. The first amusement park? After a murder, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What do you mean? He went to Dollywood. He went to Dollywood. Yeah, we've never had anybody go to the... We've had murder stakes. We've had this and that.

We've never had anybody go... Log rides. I'm going to Dollywood. He just won the Super Bowl. We are covered in blood. We got to go on a log ride to watch this all go. Let's hit the flume. Come on, sweetheart.

We're hitting the flume up. He took a child to Dollywood. So that is bonkers. That is Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, and one of the craziest fucking cases ever yeah like we said this is episode 400 so of not a small-time murder but total so thank you guys so much for being here for us uh we will plug our shit here at the end we didn't do it in the beginning but uh yeah if you haven't done it yet that purple icon their uh apple podcast it helps

a lot the reviews we don't know why it helps but it does it really does drive you up the charts we have no idea why so if you want to help the show really it helps the show a lot to do that and to counteract some assholes who just want to be dicks and troll and give shitty reviews there are 22 shows that didn't exist yeah and that kind of shit so if you want to counteract fucking liars basically get on there help us out do that it helps the show a lot uh you can do that also go over to shut up and give me murder.com everything we have all sorts of new stuff up there's new stuff the rocky horror picture show font shut up and give me murder with the lips

with pocket robin coming out of it it's a pretty fucking sweet design and we just did a small town murder arcade game looking thing like it as a design for a shirt that's up right now it's dope as shit it's that would be cool so uh anyway there's that uh gets all get your merchandise get all your stuff listen to crime and sports check that out get your tickets to live shows they're happening for the love of christ get tickets to live shows at some point we're gonna have them and when they do you'll have tickets to them and uh we can't wait imagine the the energy we're gonna have at those shows holy jesus we're gonna be so psyched to be there it's not even fucking funny i'm out of town oh my god do that listen to psa hate this movie on fridays also where we rip apart bad romantic comedies and i get very angry so uh do all of that stuff here if you want to be an even bigger hero

to the show well first follow the show you can follow us on social media. We're at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. Because we want to compete. Because we want to confuse you. I don't know how you find us. I really don't. Thank you for trying. It's a marvel of

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the biggest hero of the show, a producer, first of all, you're going to have Jimmy butcher your name. And if it's Italian, it'll really be bad. You might not even recognize it,

as you'll tell from the shout-outs this week that we did. Sometimes names are said and people are like, I don't think I heard it. And we're like, no, you didn't hear your new name that you've been given by Jimmy. You're right.

You didn't hear your name. You heard my name that I gave you. Jimmy gave you a new one. You're welcome. Yeah. Enjoy your new name that Jimmy just gave you. So you not only get that, you get access to tons of bonus material. So much bonus material. We did a violent felon prisoner dating game a couple

weeks ago. We did a murder felon prisoner dating game a couple weeks ago we did a murder in illinois last week as a small town murder thing uh even the crime and sports bonuses which you will have access to uh through the anybody above five dollars on on that on patreon that bonus was two guys in the 70s who were teammates on the New York Yankees swapping wives. Not only wives, houses, kids, cars, dogs, cats, tools, fucking shirts, pants, the whole thing. Swapped it. So that story. You got a lawnmower than me.

Yeah, I like it. Now I do. Next week, our bonus for small town murder will be a crazy shit case in Tennessee that I couldn't decide that or this. Oh, I'm going to stick around. It's a smaller one, but oh my my god is this guy fucking insane good and it's a recent one so his social media posts were fucking bonkers there's pictures of him that he takes puts on social media of him looking insane with like a big fucking machete and shit he's crazy as fuck

so that's going to be there you can get access to all of that by going to patreon.com slash crime and sports. Anybody over the five dollar level. And if you just want to be a hell of a person who just would like to throw us a couple bucks because you're a nice person or you just want to get a little shout out another one. You can do that also very easily over at PayPal. Just use our email address. Crime in sports at gmail.com. Right. Also a good way to get a hold of the show and we have a voicemail to 602-759-0606 if you want to leave voicemails

and say anything you want like that uh with all of that said yeah no more without further ado 400th episode listener appreciation let me appreciate the people who've been so fucking good to us this week jimmy hit me with them hard this week's executive producers are yee-haw uh jackie sukup paul ruwest uh carol buonanno kevin spilker kelly mack tara schaefer um what is this merle carter uh liam smith john sorensen joe dempsey brian close eric Whitlow, Crystal Emerson, Fabriazzo the Dude, Alex Hall, Nathan Holt, Sandy Tringali, Leslie Mitt-Kittrick, Randy Jordan, Adam Carpenter, Amanda Nichols, Samuel Lee. Hang in there, man. The man had a fucking hell of a story.

Keep going. I hope we get to meet you one day yeah happy birthday charisma she's 40 jessica adams zach schaub uh regine or regina mont lewis jordan bennett christianne costaldi and shannon russell thank you thank you guys so much i actually have one here that i have to do it's a guy named nick palmieri and he sent us a message saying that he didn't know if he he didn't know if he had heard his shout out or maybe he missed it or whatever so sarah explained to him that it's possible that it was missed but more than likely since you have an italian last name you just don't recognize

your new last name that jimmy gave you that is nothing like your old last name so palmero exactly so nick palmeri uh Patreon guy. Thank you, Nick. George Banfield's son turned 16. His name is Padraic or Patrick. It might be an Irish Patrick. Oh, maybe. I think Patrick is Irish. Oh, is it?

You're right. I think it's probably the most Irish name. Unless it's O'Patrick. O'Patrick would be the... Yeah, yeah. Padraic, maybe. I don't know. Thank you. He's 16. Well, happy birthday. Happy birthday. Pedraic, maybe. I don't know. Thank you. He's 16.

Well, happy birthday, buddy. Jackie Boy Roberts, Tiana Jordan, Kevin with no last name, Hannah with no last name, Boston Van Lindingham, Gore? Nope. Wow, that sounds fancy. Yep. Tavia Buck, or is that Tanya? Not...

What have I done? Mark Gruber, Michael Scholes, Aaron Angel angel nathan c callie dixon christian bins tara hedges tyler laforge uh nancy loads leads that's leads sorry naima shea danielle uh teever jesse valdovinos maybe no nzb labs is that That is what that is. Kyle Alcoyne? Nick's? No, Nick. God damn it. Nick with no last name.

Sarah Carroll? Charlie? That's Charlie. Sherry Coleman? John Cornwell? Vern Coffey? Dairy Public Radio? They're a podcast, I guess.

Yeah, cool. It's a Stephen King podcast. Cool. That's what that is. That's neat. Dairy, like, back east. Fucking? D-E. Yeah, you got it. Dairy, like, back east. Fucking... D-E.

Yeah, you got it. Not cow. Not from a cow. You're on board. Siobhan Paymiller? Paymire? Pamire. JC?

One of those. Rob Holdberg? Megan Thompson? Jacinda Shabbat Moose? Sarah Wagner? Is that what... I think that is. Annie M.

Nikki with no last name. Alexis Studler? Stubler? Stubler. Stubler? Stubler. Stubler. William Morris, like the agency. Emily Franz. Tanisha Reyes.

Andrea LeBouf. Lauren Lewicki. Jamaica Mecham. Catherine Schubert. Christine. No. Christy Morrison. Mastro Michaels.

No. McAllis. Hey. Casey Trentman. Rebecca Haislett. Andrew Hesch, Joe Peek or Pecky, John Rudy, Jennifer, no, that's Jeffrey Smith, Nathaniel Russell, Mikkel Glidden, Michael maybe, Jared Hall, Michael Spears, Chris with no last name, Elizabeth Smith, Sam Bither, I think, Bither, Jan Olin Moral Nielsen, probably not, Jennifer Barna,

Carrie Shaka, what the, Sacha Tella? See? See? Yeah. Paul Smith. That's easy. Zach Neubel Welch, Jessica Hodges, Kathy Louise Zeller, Brett Kittle, Lynn Van Hoose, Daisy Vallee, Lisa Schultz, Charlie Ambrosano. See, it's the Italian stuff.

It really gets you, man. Her daughter beat cancer, by the way. It's fucking amazing. Congrats. Lance Howard, Jamie Casper, Andrew Guider, enrique andrade carolyn phillips amanda weiss uh lindy trofner shemi h catherine roberts garrett uh england like robert uh katie oatley shane clamner casauri merzuz no what is that casauri that's not right either uh and then carla carla clark is turning i don't know how old it's carla clark is turning i don't know

how old it's her birthday happy birthday jesus i don't know happy birthday laura hansen monica hamlet zach hartley sam azaro jordan troop lauren mcketer mccaddy or sean carr alina laura lorenz uh jamie fuck marshall danielle with no last name tanita brooks lauren bedrosani no bedrosian big will 25 can't look that up jimmy saint jean and abor abor k cam uh maureen montgomery nicole curtis heather with no last name hillary blau troy nope that's t-roy weekly uh adam kauf neveck probably not timothy uh hype miller hype he yep miller timothy thanks kendall minoleski tom with no last name jacob leblanc nastiko uh james murdoch sarah shaw lindsey mcgee jackie taneski felicia markley-Eristre, Taylor Cody, Lisa Schmidt, Wes Caswell, Adam Steele, Walter Seifert, Courtney Jacquet, Lainey Olson, Lines by Bernie, Nicole Schoble, Patty would know

last name, Combs would know last name. Greg Nesbitt. Yeah, Nesbitt. Greg Felton, I think. Jessica Fernandez. Chelsea Steele. Sarah K. Hamilton. Chris Drinkwater. Christy and Ray.

Pete Marion. Yep, yep. Arabella Caldwell. Abnern. No, Adnerb. I don't know, man. Jason Walker. Spinning out.

Jennifer King. You got this, Jay. Chantrelle Bars. That sounds like a rapper. Antonio Frio. Sheila. Sheila Dirk. Katie Embry.

Brianna Pugsley. Cariel. Hey, St. Basin. Pat. Anita Cockapinny. What? Cop you. I don't know, man.

Abe Haddad. Carl Jones. Candy Wilson, Quinn with no last name, Ricardo Saldana, Rebecca Zimmerman, Nicole Oldadack, Jonathan, no, it's Nathan, Jammer, Caitlin Cipriano, yep, Quinn Curtis, Kat with no last name, James Shanigan, nope, Shaniger,

Corey Balderson, Mindy Benton ryan cox finnis hall hill shit john jacobs nope jackson ashley ryzen rezanne curtis uh shuey nope uh christian uh yuri i think uh jamie nickel nicole that's what that is uh jack ultimus andrea martinez stacy That is Jack Altomus, Andrea Martinez, Stacey Hambry. Brian would know last name. Kendra Newendora. Keisha Blocker. Michael Barrios, I think. Megan. Megan Bellen.

Ginny would know last name. Eddie Sanchez. Ben Hoffman. Megan, I know that word. That's an easy one. Scott Barbic. Sarah would know last name. Chris Lemons.

Allison Postma. Ethel Nazobi. Nope. Nazombi. Thomas Smith, Taylor Phillips. It's Mitt Yolo for Jesus. That's pretty easy. Scott Music.

James Arana. Sean Hartley. Eric Castillo. Ashley Blanton. Christina. Nope. That's Christy Stutz. Nicole Sitta.

Aaron Burke. Jennifer Visconti, Antonio McDomic, God damn it, Darcy Standifer, Jill Knapp, Thomas Crows, Evan Schneider, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Tori Backer, Johnny Price, Tinas and Angus, Carl Nagurski, Mandy Knight knight james martyr sabrina lupo ashley bale reagan heaton stephanie nope that's steven timberlake sorry man jason fuller zoe mcgeechen uh courtney petty holly connors nicholas barna candace rude roop i don't know if that's a d or a p rick walls melissa turner dylan parsons rob east rock hard banana hammock 74 wow you appreciate I don't know if that's a D or a P. Rick Walls, Melissa Turner, Dylan Parsons, Rob East, Rock Hard Banana Hammock, 74. Wow. You appreciate that. That's quite the handle. Courtney DeCorp wrote us a nice email. Thank you.

Shannon Hagen. That's my cousin. Jesus Christ. Shannon, stop that. Thank you, Rice. No, Ross. I wrote Rice. His name's Ross.

He helped me build a computer. Thank you, Ross. Jason Barron. Isabel Gutierrez. Elizabeth Spearman. Donald Gorman. Leroy Jenkins. Sad Thor Blake.

Alexis. Oh, Alexandra Macias. Shit. Brian Yoke. Tyrone Bliss. Deontre Brinson. Siobhan McClatchy. Cam Bartkus.

Fuck. Heather Ramsey. Kenzie Wells. Is that Nels? It might be Nels. Shit. John Joseph, Janice Hill, David Guisto, Sam Jelen, Jacob Burton, Homestretch. Damn it. Howard Sourd, Holland.

Sorry. It's not Howard. Howard Sourd. I'm really sorry. Alec Bourne, Zorn. Although, change your name howard howard sower does so much that's pretty cool it's probably a woman though zachary hagan dominique balsoma uh robin anderson uh taylor seaman is her mother by the way whose birth date

is mark schaefer matthew mccarthy mama seaman francesca riveraz. I think it was Clark. I don't remember. God damn it. Joanna Ahern. Joanne Ahern. Danielle Perry. Nope. Daniel Perry and Aaron Rulker. Laura Eamer.

I don't know what I did to your name. I apologize. Daniel Mark. Nicole Quintiliana. Selena Sajatovich. Sajan. Nope. Sajtanovich.

Sajtanovich. Oh. Yeah. Fancy. No, I did it terribly. You ruined it. Alina Syatovich, Julianna Colley, Travis Marshall, Ryan Ranieri, Jeremy Woodward, Jude Kendall, Carl Kirshner, Ashley Veal, Allison Harox, and Reagan Shalkley. You guys really change our lives. Thank you to all of our patron supporters. Thank you so much, everybody. Wild. For everything this week and for everything for the last 150 weeks or so, or a little more than that, 175. Thank you so much for everything you do for us. You have embraced us since the beginning. You guys were, we had an audience for this show very quickly.

People jumped on board and a lot of them are crime and sports people and some people are just new people that are looking for murder stories. And you stuck with us. Continue to tell your friends. Continue to review. Continue to do all that stuff because it really, really doesn't. Our work never stops. So thank you for doing so much work for us that you don't even have to do.

We really appreciate it. Jimmy, what if somebody really appreciated you? How could they let you know about that? If they loved me, they can find me and if they do love me they will find me where can they find you i'm out there you know where we are you know find us just to review the show or something or do something post about the show instead if you know why we do it thank you guys for everything so much for that and with that said oh my goodness thank you again again again all 400 episodes and hope you enjoyed this bonkers bat

story and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.