Small Town Murder - #184 - Some Dogs Find All The Legs in Streamwood, Illinois

Episode Date: August 13, 2020

This week, in Streamwood, Illinois, when a neighborhood dog, named Friendly brings home part of a freshly severed human leg, the area must deal with the fact that they either have a vicious killer on the loose, or someone has been a VERY bad dog. The leg turns out to belong to a missing young woman, and that's just the tip of as very awful iceberg, that includes many more murders & legs... and hands... and skulls... This one is extra insane! Along the way, we find out that every town has something to complain about, that if your dog brings home a leg, you should maybe ignore it, and that some people are even sicker than you thought possible!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Streamwood, Illinois, when a German shepherd named Friendly comes home with a part of a severed leg, it's obvious that there's either a killer on the loose or Friendly has been a very bad dog.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Wow, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again this week. Hope you enjoyed last week where we were in Oregon. We were out on the coast and we

had Goonies Never Die but Chunk Kills, apparently. He does. Basically, if you don't know what we're talking about, listen to the episode and you will. We're going from Oregon. We're going to Illinois today. Next week, Connecticut. We'll go across the country like that. Let's do it. Thank you guys once again,

though, and thank you for everything you've done for us this week. Thank you for your reviews. They matter. Why? Who the hell knows? We don't know. Apple Podcasts, Purple Icon, if you give us five stars, and it just helps. It helps the show, helps drive us up the charts, which helps more people see it, which helps the show.

So thank you for doing that. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. All your stuff is there. All your needs, your merchandise is there. Tickets to live shows. 2021 is filling up very, very fast as we're rescheduling all the 2020s into 2021 and trying to get a couple new cities in there. So that's going to be fun. And we can't wait to see you guys then.

But you got to get those tickets. And whenever the shows happen, you'll have tickets for them. And also, you can have all your information on the site, including crime and sports. If you're not listening to crime and sports, I got to be honest with you. You're missing out big time. Check out or check out crime and sports this week. It's a murder. There you go.

If you like murder, you're going to like crime and sports this week. Osterpistorius murder. We get into it pretty deep. So check that out. Check out PS. I hate this movie on Fridays. Hang out with us all damn week and keep coming back and back and back. Also, if you want to be a producer of the show, that is easy to do.

And you're going to get so much stuff. This isn't just for us. This is for you as well. Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name. He's going to butcher it. You won't even recognize it. It'll be fun. In addition to that, you're going to get access to all of our bonus stuff. That includes

crime and sports bonus stuff, which is rarely about sports. It's mainly just about crime, just like, as you know, Small Town Murders catalog is. All sorts of crazy We have a wild murder last week as the bonus episode. And next week will be just the same. So do that. You can get all of that wonderful stuff over

at patreon.com slash crime and sports. Anybody over the $5 level has access to all the bonus materials that we can offer you. And if you just want to be a nice person, get some karma maybe and just say, hey, I'll help these guys out because they've been putting out lots of content. You can do that as well. No pressure. But if you feel like it, hey, go for it. Do that over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com and uh that will help a lot and thank you for everybody that does everything like that those are awesome you

are and quickly with the disclaimer because this is a deep story and we got to get right into it here uh this is a comedy show yeah it's a comedy podcast we are comedians so we're gonna make jokes that's what's gonna happen people are also to die because it's also a murder podcast. So we didn't do it. We don't condone it. No, we wished it. We wish we had no material to work on and we just would do a show about something else. Honestly, if all was a utopia, we would say, no one be murdered.

We don't want to do a show, but people do get murdered. And unfortunately, it's interesting. So we're going to talk about it. And what we try not to do, we go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes but we're not scumbags all right and that's what you have to be to do that so that's not where we roll here our comedy comes from all the stuff around it because when murders happen it's usually not just a cut and dry not there's usually crazy

stuff happening to cause this and that's what kind of where we come in so that sounds good to you awesome if you don't think true crime and comedy should ever go together then we're probably not for you oh if maybe we are you should give it a shot but if we're not don't complain later because we warned you when we told you it was comedy so uh and all the stories are true we don't think they're you know we're not making anything up to be funny. But if that... Some people got to use a straight face to deal with this shit. That's what I'm saying.

If you want that, that dateline's out there. Oh, it all exists. Very solemnly tell you horrible things, and that's fine. That's good for you. But for the rest of us that might have a little darker sense of humor and need a little something different or weird to fill those gaps in our soul, then you know what? I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy.

I would love to go on a trip. What do you say? Let's go. We're going all the way from Oregon to Illinois here. We are basically going backwards on the Oregon Trail heading back across. We're going to Streamwood, Illinois, which is a suburb of Chicago, actually. So, yeah, it's right outside Chicago. It's obviously northern Illinois, outside Chicago.

It's about 40 minutes to downtown Chicago, so it's a burb. I mean, if you work in Chicago, you can easily live there. I mean, John Hughes could have made a movie about this town, I'm sure. You know, put some kids in it or something. All of his movies were in suburbs of chicago so is that what they were all they were all in shirmer illinois i didn't know which doesn't exist did i not know that i don't know did you ever really i don't think i gave a breakfast club in shirmer high school in shirmer illinois yeah i guess i didn't give a shit isn't

that the jay and silent bob straight back don't they go looking for shirmer illinois isn't that the plot of the movie? I don't think I ever saw that movie. Okay. Well, there you go. That makes sense. I think they were looking for Shermer, Illinois, which doesn't exist. And they were pissed off at John Hughes at the time.

Hilarious. It's pretty funny. It's a great plot. It's a funny plot. So anyway, 40 minutes to Chicago, so it's about an hour 30 up to Milwaukee. As we know, that's a very nice, easy drive. Way better than flying. As we proved last time when we hour 30 up to Milwaukee. As we know, that's a very nice, easy drive. Way better than flying. As we proved last time we went from Milwaukee to Chicago.

Jimmy flew. Sarah and I drove and we got there way easier and earlier. Jimmy was like, God damn fucking airport. We were like, oh, we had a leisurely cruise. It was a good flight. Sunday afternoon. It was beautiful. It's nice.

It's about. It's really weird to get off the ground and be able to see your destination. Yeah, but there it is. Here we go. And then you have to do a big circle around, too, which is so weird. This one's about four hours and 20 minutes to Troy, Illinois, which is our last Illinois episode, which was episode 140, so a long time ago, October 2019, almost a year. So it's in Cook County, so it's actually in the same county in Chicago.

Area code 630. History here. It's a suburb, so we'll go light on the history, really. That doesn't matter. It's called the Tri-Village, this area, along with the towns of Bartlett and Hanover Park. And it was first incorporated in 1957. People have been hanging out here since the 1830s or so when it was a home to dairy farmers is that right yeah this used to be dairy farming area

just outside of chicago yeah chicago was always a very big like uh big with the livestock and all that sort of shit because it was a shipping center because they'd ship it across the lake everywhere so you could go to new york and then go across the erie canal and you'd be in new york city really the lakes yeah well i mean not connect there we connect to things and make it easier so they'd go waterways from there so there was a lot of shit there chicago was a hub for that sort of thing and uh in the area of hanover township which is what streamwood becomes later on and it becomes stream wood from hanover township there was about 800 people here in 1950 and it was basically just farms yeah about 800 people with a bunch of farms all just farm people living in 1950 and now it's all just burbs i mean it's packed suburbs and strip malls

and yeah cookie cutter houses yeah on their wikipedia page they talk about like we got a big strip mall it's literally it's there's like talk of the strip mall i'm like hey there's a auntie ann's cookies and a great clips you're like oh wow it's like hell that's great wow it's really exciting stuff here uh now it's at first it was like the the typical like suburban 60s 50s track homes kind of thing and now it's kind of gone a little bit more the newer homes they're building here from what i understand are a little more upscale well custom yeah they're a little more uh up upscale than the what was there to begin with so you're gonna end up with you know

like old streamwood which is the shit houses and then you're gonna get new streamwood which is the nicer houses cultured stone yeah they'll break those high schools apart they'll have greasers and socas fight each other hell yeah it's gonna be awesome jets and sharks can't wait oh man i'm getting a ticket for that uh but after the end of world war ii and the korean war veterans were buying they went all out into the suburbs after that and uh the gi bill helped a lot so there was people buying houses there and uh basically it ended up blowing up into suburbs starting in 1956 when a developer developed 21 preassembled houses on concrete slabs. So these are just a shit. That's a trailer, baby.

Pow. Manufactured house. Pop it on a slab. No basement. No foundation. Just a slab. So, yeah, these houses were shipped from Indiana by the National Homes Corporation and were packaged with insulated walls, ceiling, roof sections, and framing. Already done.

Already done in there. You could do that. Holy shit. You used to be able to buy a house from Sears. Did you know that? Yeah. You could order a whole house. You could buy cars and everything from them.

Well, you could order a house and they would just bring you all the materials for a house. Wait, hold on. What? Look up, because I heard it somewhere and looked it up. Look up Sears catalog houses and they have they'll be like they have like a dozen different houses you could choose from in there of different designs. And this is like in the 30s where, you know, people like us could build things. Whereas now we've if you gave us all the materials for a house, we would put the the

the plywood up to make a make a fucking triangle and we'd sit under it to not get wet that would be our building a fucking house we would not know what to do but back then i mean i think i could put the the essential part like the the structure itself together but then once it comes to everything else like plumbing electricity i don't think i can do that i know i can't do that i know i can't do that but back then like you could just order whichever design i want the continental or whatever and you'd order it and they would fucking ship all the shit to your house and just drop off wherever you're going to build it they just drop off all the materials for a house everything and you gotta trust it i'm talking down right down to the counters and shit

it was all the interior everything you know they did that right too because today you order anything from amazon they send you like a mixer and the bowl's missing like my fucking third bathroom's missing what the shit i ordered three bathrooms i got fucking two this is bullshit where's my third bathroom they didn't send us nails ah for christ's sake put this shit together i wanted an island in the kitchen that's not here shit so this is no shingles yeah uh the homes would be constructed in less than two weeks they'd ship them kind of all prefabbed out and they just slap them together in two weeks and that's how that worked and then uh 1957 they made the village of streamwood and the rest is history and now we have some reviews of this town. I can't wait to hear it.

Want to find out what's happened here? Yeah. Well, there's a lot of good reviews. A lot of people say, you know, it's a nice, easy, nice, like, quiet place and whatever. But then I found some, there's always some bad reviews. And that's where you get the fun. I like figuring out what their beef is. Right.

You know, what's your deal? Yeah. What is this so important to you for, to review the town yeah well here's one here's a two-star review uh quote i lived in streamwood in 2000 the neighborhood used to be very friendly orient our family oriented but over the years more gangs gang affiliated families moved in you know those gang babies when they come in mom dad the baby they're all. They're all, all of them, all in their colors. That's, you got to watch out for that. When you see a mother with a stroller and you're like, I got to watch out for both of

them, you know, might rob me. That's an issue. Yeah. So I get where this person's coming from. I hate it when grandmas are the worst. When you got gang grandma. Right. You're in deep shit right there.

She's the OG. Yeah, she, well, mine is. Yeah. I got to, I got to tell them about this. My grandmother has, she's doing well, as we've said in previous episodes. She's doing much better, as a matter of fact. I don't know, miraculously zombie grandma. She's healing.

She's healing. She's healing very well, I found out yesterday. Or Monday, while we were recording Crime and Sports, Sarah went over to bring her some chicken parmesan that she had made. And so, well, that's a good sign, too. Grandma wants chicken parmesan. So, anyway, while she's talking to Grandma, Grandma informs her that earlier that day, and my aunt was there to see this,

her home health care worker was there. She's got a lady that comes over and checks on her and does her vitals and all that shit. Thank God for her. She called the lady a putan to her face just she was sitting there and grandma looked over and didn't like the way she was sitting there and just said my putan and fucking turned her head back away from her i'm like yep grandma's feeling better yeah most families when they're if their grandmother did that they'd be like oh no

she's slipping like we got to put her in a home. She's starting to be abusive. When my grandmother's abusive, we're like, hey, she's back. Yay, she's abusive. When she's nice to the healthcare workers, or anybody, I should say, when she's nice to outsiders, she's like, that's when she's like looking to get into heaven. And that's a problem. I don't like that. And I worry about her. When she's herself, that means she's apologizing.

Yeah, I don't want to hear that shit. When she's calling a woman who's there to help her a putan, that means that she's feeling better. So hopefully my aunt explained that to her. That's a good thing. Right. She would call you that no matter who you are. That means she's not going anywhere yet. That means she's going to live.

Thank you, putan. That's her new nickname for you. That's her new nickname. It means angel. Yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah, that's what it means. Don't Google that's what it means it's saying it means beautiful angel who cares for the sick it was mother theresa's nickname as a matter of fact everyone called her putan and so it worked putan theresa that's what that was yeah it was a putana mother theresa

if you knew her well you just called her Putana. She was like, oh, okay. How are you doing? So this review continues. My family moved away in 2005 after a house was being burnt down at night. After a house was being burnt down. And at night, many parties were being thrown late at night. The groceries were very close nearby and everything wasn't a far drive to get

to so i guess that's positive that gets you the extra star or is that a bad thing i guess he's pissed the house is being burnt down i don't know what's going on there why there's a house burning we have to leave town and when i want to get away from my wife the grocery store is too close too close she's right there she'll be there in minutes here's another two-star review um now this i don't know why this is the town's fault this is just this is shit that happens yeah uh quote a few years ago there was an escaped criminal running around the library awesome okay how is that the town what is it was it escaped criminal reading fucking day right was it read stories with escaped criminals day unless it was i don't think you can blame anyone for that.

That's just. Did they hire him? That's what I mean. Yeah. Was he there to giving you a talk? Was he invited? Was he reading to the children? Come on, kids.

Let's read the Berenstain Bears. Will you please escape and then come run around here? Just as like a spectacle for the people. With the Berenstain Bears wrapped around your dick. Yeah. Going, ah ah that's right going up to kids and going you want to know what the story is how's that for scholastic why don't you read this book so and then also they continue this obviously quote at the local high school there's also been incidents of fights oh and even someone with a gun oh not at the high school yeah that's high school incidents of fights oh and even someone with a gun oh not at the high school yeah

that's high school incidents of fights yeah that's a high school right when you get teenage boys together they fight each other that's what happens was the gun like used as like a weapon just had it somebody had one there had a gun didn't we have an episode where a guy just had one in the truck yeah it just happens it just brings it sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they hang out. Here's a two-star. Quote, there are a plethora of average restaurants like Applebee's and Friday's. Nothing fancy. There are some, in capital letters, nice restaurants, but not enough to make a difference.

Okay, now this person here, the one-star, he's got a grudge. Oh, there's an ax to grind here boy and at the end you can see exactly what it is because it's a very specific thing where you're like that had to have happened to you sir uh quote this town is garbage which is a strong yeah you want to do the pyramid he's not burying the lead i'll give him that you know what i mean this is what it is hang in there i'll tell you why journalistically he's not burying the lead i'll give him that you know what i mean this is what it is hang in there i'll tell you why journalistically he's not burying the lead yeah quote village leadership only cares about revenue generation streamwood charges an exit tax whenever you sell your home and move to a different city no street parking or it's a ticket well are the roads wide enough to park on

maybe that's why if you park in your own driveway and if the car is even an inch over the curb or sidewalk it's a ticket when companies try to build new businesses in streamwood they must come to town hall and face the abuse of the village president and the board oh my they roast you before you open a business i think it's like if you're trying to join like a frat in the 50s like you have to get paddled and like you have to run the gauntlet you know what i mean stick things up your butt i feel like in your ass yeah you're like i just want to open a chicken store in the fucking jesus christ you're like nope bend over i bought a subway franchise we're gonna put this right up your ass sorry i don't care if you want to run a dick's sporting goods in the

strip mall you're gonna you're gonna face the fucking wrath for that. How dare you buy an Auntie Anne? Yeah, you fucking Jesus Christ. So, yeah, they must face the abuse. Not even the scrutinism. Yeah. The abuse. I want to know what they do. I want to go to this meeting.

You want to open a business? You fucking loser. Huh? What do you want? Tell you what. Pull your pants down. Let's see your dick. See if your dick see if your

dick's big enough to run a business in my town look at his little pecker you know little pecker businesses in my town what the hell is going on here you are so dumb and then the rest of the panel goes how dumb is he they got a whole shtick they do it's like a friar's rose and then he reaches into a hat and pulls out a piece of paper that tells you how dumb he is he's got a whole fucking hat full of them all the punch for everything they're all in there well says here he's so dumb that's beautiful jesus uh so when the toyota dealership was proposed the ultimately uh the ultimately they ultimately approved and says the not they kind of translate that one they ultimately approved but were extremely rude to the company

trying to bring jobs to town okay seriously seemed like a kiss the ring kind of moment this guy really it's a town dude there's like 30 000 people here relax if there's no ring kissing going on you bring your wife in there yeah we're in front of everybody let's see your tits she's about five pounds heavy for our town i don't know about that but uh like i said if we see your tits i might change my mind if they're nice enough you know maybe that's why that extra five pounds might be helpful for her i'm sold off five pounds but she carries it in the right places. That's all I'm talking about.

Yeah, that's maybe what this abuse, that would be abuse. Yeah. Very abusive. Schools are mediocre at best. This town is crumbling and they will fine you to death in Streamwood. You need permits for everything,

exclamation point, even if you are replacing something with exactly the same thing like an AC unit. That's happened to him. He got fined for not getting a permit for exchanging his fucking ac unit and this has been born since then and uh steer clear of streamwood exclamation point yeah so people in this town wow that's an angry person right mad very angry this town is garbage yeah you want to run into him down at the post office don't you jesus crow it's up bob fuck you oh okay sorry stamps go up again that's the federal government sir we have nothing to do with that bill how are you goddamn pothole

my street again that's how i am they'll find you very they won'll fix the fucking potholes will they bumper hanging over the crack out of my sons of bitches 125 dollars that's how i am that's how i am he's gonna fucking shoot up the dmv or something watch out so people in this town right now there's 40 615 so right at our peak but when the murder happened there was about 30 000 so it happened in the 90s uh it's up 31 since 1990 so it's a pretty good growth here. Very average in terms of stats. Male, female average age is about 38. Few less old people than average.

Couple more kids. It all balances out. Married populations normal, just over 50%. Even the divorce rates exactly the same. It's really your average suburban town. Like if any suburb, this is as normal as you can be. Single with no children. It's all the same.

Race of this town. This is a little different, though. Race, 48.6% white, which is lower than the average. And way lower than the average for this show, for small town murder. 4.4% black, which is 40 minutes outside of chicago that seems on purpose or something that's a lot of those chicago suburbs back in the day were known as quite racist and they would have a clan would march through them and shit that was uh some problems i'm not saying that happened here but maybe that's why there's some of these suburbs

have less black people in them than you would imagine there would be generally people don't say uh gang families about white people that's that's what i mean that's that had a real federal racist yeah yeah that's uh we got hector and carlos over there we had four percent now it's well when you hear this too uh it is uh 12.8 asian by the way which i think the most we've ever had probably impressive maybe maybe a town in washington or something that more but that's a lot and hispanic 31.9 that's what the guy was that's what he's yeah exactly the damn friggin the mexicans and the damn whatever the hell they are i don't know what the fuck they are dominicans or some shit i don't goddamn know that's gangsters gangsters i don't know a bunch of carlo escobars right so he calls them carlo Escobar. Bunch of Carlo Escobars coming in here.

What, sir? Say again? What was that? You got the amount of letters right. You know that someone said that. Now, 60% religious here. Okay. So that's a lot of religious.

And also, between the Polish and the Hispanic people, 38.7% Catholic. It is hardcore. Catholics are the Baptists of the North. We're in the North here. A couple of Lutherans, a Methodist or two. 1.1% Jewish. What? Hava Nagila.

Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila. I don't know the words. Hey, we're very happy. I enjoy that. That's great. I get to sing 3.9% Islam. So it's a pretty diverse little town for a small for a burb, you know, voting wise in Cook County, which encompasses Chicago, obviously.

74% Democrat in the last election. 20% Republican. Few independents here and there. Unemployment rate is about normal for now it was a little bit low actually pre-covid household income is actually a little bit high though it's usually about 57 000 the rest of the country here it is 80 152 dollars that's so not bad yeah and if you have the option a lot of times the small towns we talk about aren't near a big city. Right. So there's not a lot of places to work where anything that's within an hour of a big city, you're going to get that higher household income.

Especially like Chicago. Yeah. Law firms and marketing places. Absolutely. Financial shit there. Commodities. There's all sorts of stuff going on there. So cost of living here is not bad either.

100 is regular average. Here it's 102. Wow. So not bad compared to the income. Sure. The median home cost is $197,000. That's great. For under 200 grand.

Yeah. In the rest of the country, it's 231 grand. When you're averaging 80 grand, that'll work. That's not bad. You can make that work. And have a good life. If you want to have a good life and move to Streamwood, Illinois, don't, by the way, hang your car out of the driveway or exchange your AC unit. But if you're ready for everything else, we have for you the Streamwood, Illinois Real Estate Report.

Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,780, which is very high compared to the real estate costs. If a house is $180, two-bedroom rental shouldn't be $1,800 a month. That's wild. That's very high. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,000-square-foot condo. A lot of condos for sale here. This is $145,000 square foot condo. A lot of condos for sale here. This is $145,000. And there was other condos, kind of like more apartment-y type things.

This is like a duplex actual house. Like some of them were more apartments that were a little less. One bedroom? Three bed, two bath. Oh, that's not bad. 1,000 square feet, so it's crammed in there. I think that's like maybe for college kids or something. Four bedroom, one bath, 1,225 square foot actual detached house with a yard and everything.

$215,000. Not bad. Then, I want to lay back a little bit here. You're the head of the gang. You're doing well. I found a five bedroom, three bath, 3,586 square foot. Very nice house. Nice yard.

All brick facade. Absolutely. Super house here. $465,000 for that bad boy. Very nice house. Nice yard. All brick facade. Absolutely. Super house here. $465,000 for that bad boy. Affordable, though. If you're doing well. Yeah. If you're looking for a house like that, that's a good price for it.

The rest of the country, there's a lot. It's tough to get that. It's tough to get that places for that price. That's not bad. So, things to do here. Not a lot going on. I mean, Chicago's right there. So, go over there.

What are you doing? It's a 40-minute drive to fun. that's what you're gonna be you could go see baseball games and football games basketball game hockey and food is there and everything else i love chicago we have whenever we go there i we always stay a couple extra days and and hang i like to call it the most romantic city in america it's just such a. It's just such a warm hug, that city. It's good stuff, man. I love it. Apart from the crime rate being crazy right now. Yeah, but still.

I've never experienced it. Go to Byron's, get a hot dog. Yeah. Oh, yeah, man. It's a great city, man. It's good stuff, dude. I love it. So then Chicago people will know what I'm talking about there.

So things to do is the Streamwood Summer Celebration. Yeah. Yeah. May as well. This is what yeah may as well it's uh this is what happened last year because it's canceled this year of course um around the world in three days was the theme last year oh boy oh jesus christ yeah uh features a fall full lineup of music food and children's entertainment carnival games carnival rides games bingo and a beer tent all right new this year will be hot air balloon rides, a canine demonstration.

This is a dog. Yeah. It bites shit. He will bite and wag his, make him happy. His tail will wag. Right. Very good. They put him away.

And a local music showcase. Yeah. Of course. On the main stage, the musical entertainment starts Friday with Voyage at 5.30 p.m. You want to be in the broad daylight of a summer festival. And then American English will bring their unique Beatles tribute at 8.30 p.m., which sounds fucking horrible. Oh, no. Terrible.

Saturday night entertainment starts with Rosie and the Rivets at 5.30, and then Seventh Heaven at 8.30 p.m. Yikes. And then there's an opening band at 3 p.m is it called happy days back country roads all right and then uh yeah so there's that then there's a children's stage also and a canine demonstration by tops kennel holy shit this is oh that sounds like they make them do tricks they probably have them do tricks and stuff like that and bite people probably have a guy in the suit and they have them bite somebody. I so want to let Frankie do that. So bad.

Just let her bite shit? I want to get somebody in a big suit and have them run across my backyard because she's dying to eat something. It's just a carpeted arm. I know. Just tell her to go do it. Buy you a doormat if you want to wrap it around your arm. She won't bite me, though.

She won't bite me. It's got to be a stranger. Yeah, that's right. She won't bite me. Just scream ouch and then wrap anybody else in the house in carpet. She'll bite them. Tear them apart. Yeah, she's crazy. She's obsessed with me. It's weird. She won't bite me. Just scream ouch and then wrap anybody else in the house in carpet. She'll bite them. Tear them apart. Yeah, she's crazy.

She's obsessed with me. It's weird. She stares at me. She loves me. Dude, it's weird. If Sarah tickles me, she comes over. She's like freaked out. Don't do that.

Relax, dog. Jesus Christ. So there will be unlimited carnival rides with purchase of a $20 wristband. So there's that there enjoy all of that shit uh blah blah blah bingo as well yeah of course there is crime rate in this town what we're interested in of course the crazy stuff property crime is about one-third under the national average so it's actually very safe for all these people who are like there's gangs moving in well they haven't they're not doing anything if there are statistically it's working out they're just hanging so i don't know

what the fuck you care who's who's living next to you but uh violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore yeah you can really judge the safety of a place is half the national average quit your bitching so this is great fucking fine you're making money and you can afford your house safe as fuck shut the fuck up shut the fuck up you're close enough 40 minutes from one of the best cities in the world you're almost close enough to catch a gun a bullet that's been fired up into the air from downtown from downtown almost close enough for that but not quite yeah you're still safe and chicago's right there shut your fucking mouths and quit your bitching enjoy your nice city christ almighty so with that said i think it's time to talk about some murder yeah it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart

and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the wayback machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or

on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases

like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Yeah, some murder, I say, because we got this right here guys you got a dose buckle the fuck up first of all uh buckle up on this one because it is it's something else uh we're gonna start out with uh you'll see we'll just we'll just follow the trail and we'll go from there and you'll see what

it is uh there will be a few graphic parts here and when they come up i'll let you know ahead of time that they're coming. So you can fucking brace yourself or click ahead of 30 seconds or do whatever you got to do. Or if you're really weird, fucking settle in and, I don't know, hear it. I don't know what the fuck you want. Yeah, whatever you want to do. But we'll let you know ahead of time, give you a little warning. But let's start out in the 90s. We're going to go back to 1995.

All right. So, I mean, 95 is good times there. There's internet. Not fast enough to do anything with other than email and shit. But it's there. So there was like that. It was like the cusp of another time, 95. The fringes of the internet were beginning with the weird chat rooms here and there.

Everybody, yeah, like from 93 on everybody was like had those aol discs and people every kid i knew was on chat and i don't have a computer but everybody was like chatting i remember a girlfriend of mine in the like 10th grade got in trouble for um for over for running up like a 600 aol bill in chat rooms because they used to charge you by the minute past your 23 hours on that disc or whatever. And she got like fucking grounded for like a month. I had to break up with her over it. It was, I couldn't deal with it. I couldn't break up with you.

I did. I was in like 10th grade. I was like, you can't even allow out for a month. I don't like you that much. Our career's over. Yeah, I don't like you that much. You know, it's fleeting in 10th grade. What do you care?

Yeah, it's true. Like any little thing goes wrong, you're. You know, it's fleeting in 10th grade. What do you care? You know, like any little thing goes wrong. You're like, well, that's that. I used to like to go into lesbian chat rooms and pretend to be a lesbian. That was my favorite thing. When you were a teenager? Yeah. Just to hang out?

It was so much fun. Just to hear what was going on? Yeah. Jesus, you were horny. You were so horny. You're like, it's all chicks. Meanwhile, it's all guys. it's all guys it's all you it was just a bunch of teenagers sitting there going to be lesbian then i stick stuff in her

that's what i do and you're like whoa hot i stick stuff in me yeah and you're like hot oh this is great this is great then we like rub on each other and stuff and you're like yeah tell me more tell me more yeah 17 year old jeff this is hot who's telling me her name's ariana this is fucking good stuff right here that's what was going on i remember one time it was like we talked for quite a while it was like we were just friends it wasn't like we were it wasn't i wasn't trying to just be filthy with some girl but eventually i was like i got a secret to tell you. And she goes, you. And I said, I.

And she said, are. And I said, am. And she said, a guy. Asshole. Asshole. Asshole. And she flooded my screen with asshole. You kind of deserve it.

To be honest with you, you deserved it. She finished the sentence for me. She already knew. Well, yeah. Because I'm sure there were several indicators. Vagina is super hot and I dig it and it makes me all horny and stuff. I figured they'd never be able to tell because they're into the same thing I am. They can't see my face.

They get it. Yeah, they understand where you're coming from. We don't condone that behavior. You wouldn't do that now. I was dying laughing every time I heard a little chime that said another word popped up, and it just said asshole. Whoops. I think she's mad. Oh, man.

Well, she thought she found a nice lady, and it's not. I'm so sorry. The opposite of a nice lady. It's a teenager who's already losing his hair. I'm not a nice lady. I'm a mean young boy. That's what I am. That's what I am, an asshole young boy.

Not good. Yeah. This is that's where Jimmy was in 95 and getting busted stealing UFC fucking video games from Sears, which is very sad. That's embarrassing. But a house like we said last time before. Instead, he's getting video games. Yeah, this is a interesting time.

So 95. That's what I like about this show this show too is we could be in the 80s we could be in the 60s it could be from last year like we go all around in the 90s this is a an interesting time because there's dna right now that's the problem we do these like 80s murders and they're like we don't know where the fuck there's like blood everywhere i'm gonna solve this we found out it's type a blood right so's that. So it could be anyone from about 72% of the population. But outside of that, we got a pretty good lead on. Whereas now, the crime fighting is a little more technical.

We'd like to get fingerprints off the murder weapon, but it's covered in blood. And we have no idea how to. It's super gross. I mean, we put it in a bag, but now there's blood all in the bag. Nobody wants to touch it. It's getting sticky, too. And like, no, I don't want to touch it. It's pretty gross. I remember hand sanitizer.

I'm not touching it. There's no way we're solving this. Well, sometimes people got to die. So January 16th, 1995, I'm trying to think of where I was at that point. I know there was a big blizzard like a month later in New York, if I'm not mistaken. So I remember that. I remember pushing my friend's car up a street. January.

In February, it was a blizzard. And I remember we were pushing a car in two feet of snow. It had broken down while police were behind us, mocking us through the loudspeaker, calling us names. Yeah. And yeah, like slurs and shit like literally racial slurs and everything you could none of which matched you no no no they did some of us okay because it was like hodgepodge people yeah we had a bunch of deals like a black kid a puerto rican kid and me another italian kid and so he was like you fucking he he let him fly

it was two cops and they let it fly through the loudspeaker in the streets at us while we pushed a car through the snow. It was nice. It hit that group of kids with every racial slur, so they were having a great time. They did. It was everything. They were going off on it. They were really close. Everything but fucking crackers, I guess.

I was a guinea. Or anything that has to do with women. Actually, you can call them women things, too. They call us pussies. That's much more insulting. Because I'm not. So, come on. So, January 16th, 1995.

There's a German shepherd, a very happy German shepherd from all accounts. What are they? They're happy with a tail wagon. Such good dogs. It's a rural area, and the dog goes out on its own and, you know, goes in the woods and comes back and does all his things, you know? You know how dogs are back then. That's a dog day.

That's a dog day. Yeah, he's not living near are back then. Has a dog day. Has a dog day. Yeah. He's not living near a big highway or anything. So you can let the dog out. Well, his name is Friendly. Yeah. What a great name. Friendly the German Shepherd.

While Friendly comes home after being, you know, rummaging around for a while, comes up to the door. Owners go to let Friendly in. Friendly is carrying with him in his mouth a two foot long section of a human leg. Oh, no. Which is unexpected. Skin and clothes and everything. Fucking.

Well, it's a two foot section of the human leg that is determined to be freshly severed with a what they described as a very sharp instrument, more likely a machine than a handsaw. What? So not even like no one hacked the leg off. This is a... Somebody zipped it off. Somebody zipped this shit off. Wow.

And this is out in a rural wooded area here. So this guy is like, holy shit, my dog found a fucking leg. Yuck. And, you know, at first they just, they believe the guy, the dog found the leg. There's no, you know, reason to say my dog found a leg and I have a piece of a leg if you didn't find a leg. So they look into this. They determine, the coroner does, that the part of the leg, it's basically a shin. It's just below the knee and above the foot.

That section of leg is there. As an Italian that you are, would you tell the dog, put it back? Yeah, yeah. Mind your fucking business. Hey, mind your business. Where'd you find it? Put it back.

I'm so torn with if I ever stumble across a body with what to do. Like that. Because you know, for the most part, this person probably has a family that's worried about them and looking for them, so you want that to get resolved. But at the most part, this person probably has a family that's worried about them and looking for them. So you want that to get resolved. But at the same time, they're still going to be dead.

And you're now involved. And now they're going to talk to you and question. Remember Serial? Yeah. That fucking guy you found, Heyman Lee. Oh, my God. They ran that guy through the fucking gauntlet. We talked about it.

It's a ruined life. I mean, it happens. If you find a body, you are the first suspect because you're the one standing next to a dead human body. So like, well, let's make sure that person didn't kill it first. The guy that found the bomb in Centennial Park, they drugged that man through the news for four months as if he did it. You don't want to be the person who finds anything.

So this person, luckily, his dog found it, and they weren't like, friendly yeah are you bad boy i may have learned my mind your business uh lesson today in traffic a man didn't have brake lights so i pulled up next to him i said sir you don't have any brake lights and he rolled down he reached across his car james to roll his window down so obviously it's a roller great already yeah and he goes what and i said your your brake lights don't work and he put his head in his hands and goes i can't take it anymore jesus christ oh my god what did i what did i just start what you just did was you broke the camel's back you threw one extra piece of straw on and you just he just went at a red light to the ground the man looked at his palms and said, I can't take it anymore. He's fucking sobbing into his palms.

So if you hear of a man who goes on a shooting rampage in Arizona, it's probably him. Hopefully he'll just take out himself. He was already at the end of it. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. If I see brake lights that aren't working, I'm going to keep moving. That's your problem, mister.

I don't know what to tell you. Not my business. Mind your own business. Follow my grandmother's advice. Mind your own business. Follow my grandmother's advice. Mind your own business. That's what went through my head. As soon as he put his face in his hands upset, I was like, James would say, what are you doing? Yeah.

Why'd you do it? Why'd you tell him? He'd have found out eventually. He would have. Someone would have told him. Whether somebody runs into him or somebody tells him, it's on them. It's on them and not on you. Keep driving.

Pretend to be, act like you're a ghost going through the world. That's the best way to do it. Tell you, mind your business. Listen to my grandmother. Mind your business. Mind your business. Now, this leg is obviously, police are like, holy shit. um now this leg is obviously police are like holy shit all we know is it's a it seems to be from a caucasian woman in her late teens to early 20s that's all so it's like a that's the only thing

they can tell from that's amazing not that's a coroner yeah it's not bad yeah medical people are pretty wild i can go it's a leg i mean probably white right looking at it i can tell you that otherwise woman yeah they could tell i'm probably shaved would be my guess listen i shave them too not all of them not all you're hairy right now i'm looking at your trim yeah i'm talking you know well i suppose who knows so they get down pretty low we don't know i get you so the police initially what they think is it's a medical school prank. That's what they believe it is. They believe because medical schools have access to cadavers and parts, and they feel like this is some kind of, you know, like a frat thing where they go place a body part

somewhere and it gets found. It is some sort of medical school prank. That's what they believe it is, because there's a medical school somewhere around there. And they're like, it's got to be a medical school prank. It's too, the way it's severed and the way it is it's like it's probably it's clean it's too clean remember last time it's them again it's them again remember them fucking cut ups i hope scooter got into the fraternity because he did a good job he put that thing in my desk drawer i opened it up i was like oh my goodness i reached for a butterfinger and it was other fangers if you know what i mean

and i was like oh shit jesus christ there's a hand in my drawer put my stapler in a femur oh you know how that goes so yeah so but they they actually think like okay uh it's probably a prank but we should probably check it out anyway obviously because it is a human leg good it's a good idea so the sheriff's the sheriff's come out and they continue to search and they bring with them a 140 pound uh bloodhound named sir lancelot wow a giant bloodhound trained to detect the scent of decomposing flesh it's a fucking cadaver dog probably a good dog that's a big ass that's a big dog with a 140 pound blood he's gothound? He's got a big head with big wrinkles. Some of the ears.

You could just grab him and be like, you suckle boy. You grab his wrinkles on his head and you suckle boy. And he goes, ah. Ears down to his shoulders. You do like you do with Benny. You just grab him by the face skin. You go, I suckle boy. Shake it.

He's like, ah. That's right, I am. That's what I'm talking about. That's a lot of bloodhound. That's a lot. So he's looking for decomposing flesh. January 17th through the whole course of the day, they do not find anything else. So that kind of puts more thought toward the medical school prank thing, theory.

Wednesday, the next day, January 18th, the search is continued. By the end of the next day, they decide, call it off. They called it off. They said, it's got to be a prank. There's no, we found nothing else. So just to have that one part somewhere is really unlikely. You know, for the police is what they're thinking. Like, this has got to be a medical school prank.

That's what we're going to call it for now. And we're going to move on. We're going to go. It was a prank and go back to the station and hope nothing else happens. Hope we're not notified of anything else here. So that's that. Problem is, that's that uh problem is that's january 18th five uh january 21st though three days after they call off the search and five days

after the first leg was found yeah friendly comes home again you son of a bitch fucking friendly comes home oh no same german shepherd friendly he comes home with the right leg. He found the left leg first. Now he comes home with the right version of the exact mirror version of the other leg, except the right side of it. Same length and everything? Same length, severed the same way, everything except the right leg, not the left leg. That ain't a prank anymore. Now the cops are like, uh-oh. Number one, and why the fun, Friendly is friendly the greatest cadaver dog in the world.

They brought in Lancelot here. Start to retire Lancelot and hire Friendly. What the fuck, man? So, yeah, he returns home with a right leg cut from the ankle to the middle thigh. It was above the knee, not below the knee. The other one was, too. So the police fucking put another team out there and search more. Now, what they end up doing, though, is once they search around a little bit and they talk,

they decide that, yeah, this is probably a murder and not a medical school prank with the two different things. It's just unlikely that that's what it is. So Monday, January 23rd, they take the legs to the lab. I assume before that. But that day they find out the only thing they can figure out at this point is that it's a woman's. It's a woman. That's it. It's a woman's blood type.

That's it. That's all they know. It's a woman. And they got their blood and they got her blood type. So, yay. That's the information they know. We got something. That's not much.

So they get so fucking desperate because their dog couldn't find anything. They bring in teams of other dogs. No one can find anything. The only fucking dog that can find anything is Friendly. Right. So the whole police department comes and they equip Friendly. They're like, Friendly's the one. Friendly knows where this shit is.

No one else does. So they put a big device on Friendly, like a GPS device, but it's 95. So it's not like a chip like you can put in somebody now on a dog now. It's a microwave. It's a fucking box thing they put on him. So apparently, and then they just were like, okay, Friendly, go on. And then they tried to just walk behind him a distance. They need a GoPro.

That's what i'm saying they had no so the dog basically they hope that it would find lead them to parts but the dog gets distracted by the device thing by the gps he's all kind of freaked out by it and then they said this is great quote the dog didn't find anything and gets distracted wants to play with officers following him rather than continue the search he's a good boy. How fucking great is Friendly? The dog, they're like, go on, and they're following him. He's like, he's a good boy.

He's jumping, and they're like, he's a good boy. Find his fucking arm, dog. They just wanted to play. Find the rest of it. Nope. Not if you're following me. We're going to play. Friendly's a good boy.

That's what happens. Oh, God, I want him. Yeah. So meanwhile, while this is all going on, they send a piece of muscle tissue from one leg to Maryland to a lab for DNA typing, basically. So they can at least have one profile and they can try to any other body parts come up. Maybe they can match them up, basically. So since then, though, they have the thousands of hours and and a very short amount of time man hours and dog hours searching this area looking for you know because the dogs get you can dog can only search for like an hour and then they get tired half hour even they have to

they have to change out dogs right that's very common i mean watch your dog how long is it awake before it passes out very not very two hours is you hours is, you know, and that's if it's hanging out. If it's like searching and sniffing, it's about an hour. I'm sure I could keep a dog busy for like three, four hours. Probably. You got to focus energy on them. Yeah, yeah. And like throw a ball or walk them.

Yeah, and they're going to get distracted. Dogs don't focus for four straight hours either. And then they'll sleep for two days straight. Yeah, that's it. Then they're done. So they're trying to figure it out, exactly what it is, who it is. Saturday, January 28th, investigators announced that they believe they know who it is. They're pretty sure it's a 21-year-old woman named Melanie Hostetler who disappeared from her home in Valparaiso,iana uh like two weeks before that so that's the first

thing or three weeks before that that's who they think it is at first now february 3rd uh blood samples are taken from everybody and going all around all these little crime labs are trying to compare things so march 3rd comes around 1995 the property owner where the parts were found where the legs were found is having a he has rental properties on his property and he cannot rent them out no he's having a hard time because in the last you know month and a half his properties become the body parts property so he literally is like freaking out because he can't rent out his stuff anymore so he calls out everybody calls out police and everything else to search his property more so he could clear it of all body parts basically because you can say i don't have body parts you can live here right like just to for like a

marketing thing to have people buy his fucking shit poor bastard yeah so uh he was he was upset about it so it's located right across the street from where Friendly found the legs. So it's that neighborhood. So he goes, I want to show that there's nothing on my property so people will rent it. It's not even his dog that found him. No, no, no. He lives across the street. Oh, Jesus. He lives across the street.

It's not even Friendly. Goddamn dog wandered onto my property and ruined my fucking life. Yeah. Well, they don't know where the dog found him. So found the parts. So this guy just wants to spell the rumor that maybe they came from his property. So he can, you know,

nobody wants to rent a house, go in the backyard and find an arm. You know, that's what I think is the driving people away. So he said that he couldn't find a tenant because of the, of the publicity around the discovery of the legs. So as he put it in an attempt to dispel any suspicions about his 30 acre wooded property,

the man, he wouldn't identify himself in the paper either because he felt embarrassed. They arranged to have Kay Watt of Springfield and her trained cadaver dog named Hawthorne search it all out. Hawthorne's a big Irish setter, I believe, or a golden retriever. I don't remember. So about two hours into the search, it's a golden retriever, by the way. Two hours into the search, old Hawth retriever by the way two hours into the search old hawthorne uncovers a human skull oh it bit him in the ass from some densely wooded underbrush

in a swampy area this guy went fuck god damn it that's worse than a leg i was wrong that's worse than a leg a skull you'd rather find a leg than a skull wouldn't you that's the guy that's fuck he knows everywhere he's been and knows that he's never put a body on his own property yeah but he's got too much fucking land that's what it is that's exactly what anybody else is put out there it's fucked up so it's and there's more here so it's so yeah the uh the uh preliminary examination of the skull they eliminate the melanie hostetler woman as the uh possible donor of the skull i guess for lack of a better term not a voluntary donor but so uh forensic experts are waiting to try to match this skull to another missing young woman who we'll talk about in a minute they're trying to match this skull to x-rays from a dental appointment from this other woman so that's they're looking

for dental records here they do they have a team of a half dozen dogs from illinois and wisconsin plus search and rescue teams i mean it's a fucking imagine the fanning out there look they know some shits there now so uh he returned. They returned again with Hawthorne. And yeah, they couldn't find anything else. So three other times they'd brought dogs onto the property where the skull was found but never found anything before Hawthorne

was found it. So it's not a perfect, not an exact science. These dogs sniffing for shit at all. Not an exact science. I mean, they send teams out and Friendly still comes home with a leg. So what do you want here um so it's possible that the dogs missed finding the skull but they also said that the skull could have been dragged there by animals as well sure and left behind so but it was somewhere in the area probably is what they're getting at so march 25th uh 1995 there's a man in bristol nearby town and he's doing some yard work cleaning up the old yard

it's springtime you know it's a nice thing here and uh he's just cleaning out some bushes and bushy area here and he finds a hand oh no um it's a human hand and um partially decomposed obviously he's doing it's the hundred and eighty seven hundred block of 184th street here wrist down the whole thing yeah it's about five nights this is in wisconsin about five miles north of the illinois border this is so it's on the other side even um the hand is identified as belonging to a woman a young woman again matches the legs legs and skin tone and everything else. So they continue to investigate here. About a month after the hand was found, he's doing more yard work. About 400 feet away, he finds a foot.

No! This guy's like, fuck gardening! I do this to relax. Oh, my God. This is what I do to relax. Right. I come out here. I'm going to put some begonias in and some fucking i'm gonna plant

some green beans and instead i'm finding fucking feet and hands oh this is not relaxing that's a guy that would that has every right in the world and every reason to go i can't take it i can't take it anymore not that and my brake lights no fuck so this guy's name is bill glembaki the fucking unluckiest guy going he gets interviewed and he says quote what is it in the mind of the individual who did this terrible thing who could dismember another human being and then dispose of the body parts at different locations because this is nowhere near the other place he says quote it's disquieting for people to think that these body parts are being placed at various locations by someone since they could not be thrown from a car because they're too far so

someone must be getting out of a car going into the woods and dumping off a part here driving somewhere else dumping off a part there yeah this is too far from the road he's not just winging fucking shins out yeah he's not newsboy exactly he's not doing a paper boy impression doesn't have like in the front of his basket. Yeah. On his bicycle. There's a shin. I got a hand.

A foot for this guy. What the hell? You get a foot. We'll put it in the garden. That'll be a nice discovery. Oh my God, this is terrible. So who is it? Well, they finally figure out who this is.

All the pieces go to one girl. All the pieces go to one particular woman. Thank God. And they... I mean, obviously. They match it from DNA. She has been missing, so they take a sample, and they also take a sample from her parents to see if it's her, and they find out exactly who it is. And it's a young woman who, at the time, is 24 years old.

Very young, so they had the age right anyway. Stacey Russell McDonald Frobel. Yeah, McDonald and frobel are two married names yeah on her sure actual state whatever said mcdonald because that was her previous husband but she had just got married and was also using frobel so that's how they work it uh it's just stacy frobel and all the newspapers and everything like that uh she's born february 4th 1970 as stacy ann rus Russell back then it's obviously her maiden name at the time of her disappearance

she's had a tough life Stacy a bit of a tough life she was unemployed at the time of her disappearance she'd worked on and off as like a gas station clerk and a waitress and menial jobs and I mean she's 24 and trying to figure out what the hell

to do with herself, basically. Certainly allowed. Oh, yeah. You don't have to find her. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. 24, forget it. She also, though, has a five-year-old son at the time as well named Daniel, who at the time is in the care of her mother. She goes and sees Daniel and takes Daniel for times.

Oh, so she doesn't have custody. No, she gave custody to her mother, and she said it was until she felt like she could take care of the baby better, which, honestly... That's the most mature thing I've ever heard for a 24-year-old. At the time, she was 20 when she did that. Maybe it was a baby. Brilliant.

That is the most... You can say what you want about how can a mother abandon her child. That is the most mature thing. If a woman or a man, whoever, if they know that you can't take... If you know you can't take you want about how can a mother abandon her child that is the most mature thing if a woman or a man whoever if they know that you can't take if you know you can't take care of this child the proper way that they need to be taken care of for the love of god let someone else fucking do it i mean obviously try yeah but if you can't if you're not capable of it fuck man get the kid a better life it's not about your ego or any of that shit it's about raising your child so i commend her for doing that absolutely absolutely what's the least damage is it there or is it here absolutely that's the

one you need to go with yeah and so she knew she was not gonna not having an easy time and she did that so um she's been married now for 10 months to her second husband okay and uh we'll talk about that marriage they found her car on February 10th. And that's when they started really concentrating and wondering if it was her in the yard there. They found her white 1984 Renault Encore. Oh, no. Yeah, you don't want that. That's bad stuff.

What a tough fucking time. An 11-year-old Renault Encore. Oof, man. I've never even been in a Renault. I don't think I have either. You'd see one'd see when you go who buys a renault right anytime i've ever seen it i go where'd you get it yeah where would you where would you know renault dealer in town and like her i don't fault her because that's it's an 84 so she just bought whatever car she could afford probably so when you're buying whatever car you can afford you have 400 bucks or something you don't give a shit what it is it runs great and

you do it. I bought those cars plenty. It works now. I'll take it. I'll fucking take it. But someone at some point bought a new Renault Encore. They went to a dealership and were like, I got a new car, everybody, and pulled it up and they were like, huh?

And it was a Renault Encore. Every time you see a car driving on the street that's hideous, like a fucking brown shitbox, think somebody excitedly drove that off the lot one day. They brought it home, parked in the driveway. Everyone came out of the house to look at it. They called their friends. They took pictures and posted it on Facebook. All that shit.

That piece of shit. Someone was super excited about that, at least for a day. Every time I see a green car, like forest green or brown, that's the first thought I had. I can't believe someone. You better have got an amazing fucking deal on that. Yeah. And why would you pick that? What the fuck?

Yeah. Someone and someone was jacked. They bought a new car. So they were excited about it. They came home. We're like, look what I got. Showing it off and shit. If they came home, we're like, look what I got.

Showing it off and shit. So they found her car, though, the 84 Renault Encore, in the parking lot of a Hanover Park apartment complex called Glendale Terrace, which is about a mile from one of her girlfriend's homes in Streamwood. Now, her keys were gone and her purse were gone. Nothing. None of her personal effects were in the car. And the authority said they couldn't determine how long the car was there back then not everywhere had surveillance cameras everywhere so you wouldn't be able to tell when it got there so yeah genetic testing from the legs found that uh it was her uh they police release a photo with the hopes that someone may have seen her and they can possibly piece this

whole thing together it was hard for them to track down her father. Her father has not seen her since she was an infant. That's the beginning of her saga here. No, her father is Willard Russell, her biological biological father. He's an electrician who was living in Nashville in 1995, and he said he hadn't seen his daughter since she was an infant. They had to track him down. Not easy to do to obtain a blood sample in order to identify the remains. So apparently he's a big gambler. This guy hangs out at the racetrack and saw his daughter only as an infant and then spent the next 24 years denying that she was his.

Oh, you dick. Yeah, did that. Not actually my kid. That was his game. And then once she was gone, guess what? They fucking proved it was because they matched your DNA to it. So it was your kid, you fucking asshole. Anyway.

Does he feel like a jerk now? I fucking hope so. I would hope so. Maybe if he was there, I don't know, something. Maybe she would have been at your house for a barbecue instead of doing this. Anything. Or maybe not. P.S.

You've got a grandson, dickhead. And you've got a grandson that you probably don't care about. So she was last seen, Stacy Frobel here, was last seen leaving a girlfriend's Dreamwood apartment in her white 84 Renault Encore at 12.45 a.m. on January 4th. So that's January 4th. So the 16th is when the first leg was found. Right. Two weeks. Two weeks.

And the only reason it's not totally decomposed is it's January in Illinois. So it's cold and kept it pretty, pretty intact. So her husband reported her missing later that day. And like we said, the encore was found in the parking lot. Now, they all the other body parts weren't identified as Froebel's until two months after she disappeared. It was all different things there and finally the fbi agents came in and kind of brought everything together the fbi ended up working on this they had to reinvestigate the whole thing her husband jeff froeble had filed the missing person they basically came in and started over

the fbi they were like you guys are fucking idiots right starting over right from the beginning and they you're hot you're fucking contracting this out to citizens dogs we got it yeah we're gonna take care of this that's what i'm saying the amount of different agencies and then some lady who has cadaver dogs she's not a law enforcement agency and then yeah friendly and this one and that one everything needs to be under one roof here to figure out what the fuck's going on so let's question that lady. Why do you have dogs that can smell dead? Yeah. What are you looking for?

What are you? Is that like a metal detector? You're hoping they got a ring on or something you can take. What are you doing? The fuck's your problem? You're a fucking weirdo lady. That's a weird thing to have, man. I really want to find all the corpses.

I'm sure people hire her. That's why. But still, it's weird. So they try to basically build, figure out what Stacy's lifestyle was and try to build her life and figure out from there what the hell she was. First thing they found out is that she definitely, and this is nothing against her, no reason to die, but she had affairs on her husband. They've only been together or married for 10 months. And because of this, she often stayed out all night so her husband didn't immediately report her missing is what he says he's like well i mean she stays out all night all the time

so i didn't report her missing till the next day so police are a little suspicious about that like you've been together 10 months and you don't mind her cheating on you right to the point where you're like i don't know maybe she'll be home tomorrow. Jesus. Didn't get mad at her for that or anything like that. So the police are a little suspicious of Jeff here right away. Instability. Yeah. And not reporting her missing till the next day.

It's you know what I mean? It's a little bit shaky. They were said to have a stormy marriage once they look a little further. Once they look a little further, initially, Jeff, Jeff Frobel and a man. She reportedly called from her girlfriend's house that night because she's got a boyfriend. She went over to her girlfriends in Streamwood and called her boyfriend. So initially, those are the two suspects that the police are looking at. Jeff and the boyfriend.

That's who they want. That's who you look for. Logical. You find a dead body. You go, who was fucking this person? First and foremost, that's it. want that's who you look for logical you find a dead body you go who was fucking this person right first and foremost that's it yeah were they robbed is it was this for something they had no okay then who was fucking them because that's probably who fucking did it you know or who was trying to fuck them either one so they top the beginning the top of the suspect charts here shooting the top of the charts in the suspect division jeff frobel yeah everybody number one with a bullet number one with a shin so uh problem is they both take lie detector tests and pass brilliantly good lord perfectly pass no not even

a fucking nothing to look at nothing to look at. Nothing to look at. No inconsistencies. Nothing. They actually end up both passing two more lie detector tests. They give them each three lie detector tests, and they all have credible alibis. Will a hat trick satisfy you fuckers? Leave me alone. Three polygraphs and an alibi is a pretty good clearing of it. But they're like, it has to be one of these two. Who the fuck else could it be?

So they're like, it has to be. And then they're like, I could it be so they're like it has to be and then they're like i guess it's not shit oh my god they really thought so so these leads all dry up and as far as that goes and so they start making basically criminal background checks into everybody that she's ever known who has a something that's a red flag because that's what they do look for a violent violent crime. Look for a crime against women. Something like that. Oh, this is exhausting. It's fucking crazy. Her birthday was on February 4th of that year.

She would have been 26 or 25. I'm sorry. The next year comes around. The next year, her son, Daniel, who was six years old at that time, they sent a happy birthday message on a balloon up and they put in the papers. Very fucking sad. Six year old kid. Christ.

Yeah, it's heartbreaking. Jesus Christ. We don't even have Oliver. No. Oh, my God. They didn't even have Oliver yet. Now, they said that they were the police department said they were trying to establish a route of travel taken by the murder of, you know, where these parts may have been. Is there, you know, like when they do bank robberies, you'll see if there's a pattern is it going anywhere put some pins on a map yeah put some pins on a map that seems to work start looking at how they match hey what do they do

in the movies yeah they're like i don't know how to do this imagine that these fbi guys are like yeah we're gonna we got this buddy yeah we'll take over local cops and they're like all right and the one goes what do we do i know i know what we don't do whatever the fuck they did i don't know um but what's the right course i saw this movie once see that map over there get some pins get some pins we're gonna go over there just start putting pins and they won't know what the fuck we're doing they won't think it's some fancy fbi shit they won't be like yeah it's federal training buddy you don't know shit like step aside just be like whoa we'll do it yeah second somebody get me hawthorne find that fucking dog also get me friendly i'd

like to pet him i hear he's very friendly howdy likes to play he's shit at finding bodies and uh he's great at it he's shit at finding them when we want him when we want him to but if you just let him go do his thing can't you can't lord over friendly right force him to do things friendly is a free spirit tell you what get me friendly i'll pet him send hawthorne to do the heart that's what makes him a good dog. And arrest Hawthorne's mom. Yeah, because she's up to something, I feel like. Let's investigate her, get me her dog to pet, another dog.

I'd like him here to pet, too. Get me two dogs to pet. Thank you. This investigator said, quote, we also want to figure out what might have been going on in his mind to stop at certain locations and drop off parts. Is there any significance to the locations where he's dropping them off okay that's the thing does he know somebody there is there a significance there or is there a significance to the pattern is anything they're looking for

because they're literally trying to put it together did he put the feet here in the hands here is he trying to form a body on the map maybe that's what he's doing literally they have no fucking idea so they're going through every idea they could possibly think of they said there's no way to establish how many other body parts may have been moved by animals would have been destroyed they never find a torso of any kind so that's a problem so worst easter ever it's a bad easter yeah especially when you find what's inside this it's not that's not a good egg that is not a Jolly Rancher. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two

as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So here's a friend on Stacy because Stacy has had no voice here. So the friend Susan Blanchard is her name is known her since childhood. She talks in the paper just to try to give her a humanize this person as a person rather than a leg found by a dog, which is kind of what describes her as so susan uh says that it was her her best friend was stacy she said quote she's not just a

body part she was a good person who went through hell and back for in her life which is you know she said she grew up they grew up together um for months she has been on the sheriff's department from the day she stacy went missing saying missing, saying, where's my friend? Where's my friend? She herself, Blanchard here, she distributed flyers to local businesses to try to find her. Also asking for donations to set up a fund for her son. Like, this friend is going around. Like, she's amazing.

That's the kind of friend you want. If you're missing, she's going around trying to help your son and shit. Yeah, I'm not sure he eats. Yeah, this is a great friend. But it's, you know, she's talking publicly, and most of the time nobody's really been talking publicly. She said that she's known her forever since she was a young woman in elementary school. She said that she described Stacey as a woman who was desperate for love and always found herself in the company of troublemakers, drug addicts, ex-convicts, and abusers.

That's what she said. She said, quote, she trusted everyone, and that's probably what killed her. She said Stacey was naive and shy around those she didn't know and volatile among those that she did know so she's an interesting combination she said she had a knack for cheering people up when they most needed it um she had her son obviously uh she said she never she wasn't an adult herself yet and was unable to care for her uh she worked briefly at a hot dog stand in mundelein but she said she just never figured out what she wanted to do with herself. Could never get a path going.

And, you know, 24, a lot of people don't have a path and she never had a chance to find one. But she said she heard radio reports of a young woman dead in the Illinois Forest Preserve. Once she heard the legs belong to a woman, she was sure that it was her friend. And she started calling people in Hoffman Estates, which was where she lived to see if she was sure that it was her friend and she started calling people in uh hoffman estates which was where she lived to see if she's doing her own investigation once she hears that she's missing because no one else cares so later on police end up tracing those calls while they're looking for suspects and they think that's a suspect doing it yeah so they go and arrest her oh no they go and arrest her friend and place her in a in a

detention center uh till they figure out what the fuck's going on where she figured out that stacy had been placed there the day before she was missing stacy had been picked up for something the day before she went missing by the police as well so she finds that out and pieces that together so she was here this day, gone that day. She describes how they were Girl Scouts together when they were kids. They went to Bozo Circus together. Yes. Yeah.

They lived from time to time in some of the same group homes for troubled teens. They had, yeah, they, you know, hung out at the mall together and shit like that. Blanchard said, quote, we even dated some of the same guys. She this girl, Blanchard was so this woman was so intent on finding her friend. She took photos of Stacy to a psychic. I mean, she did everything. She's doing everything she could. She wanted the psychic to go with her to the field where the legs were found. She's like, come with me to the field.

Maybe that'll help you. It's like I only go so far into the creepy shit. That's the thing. But, well, the mother, actually, Stacy's mother, who had went through the field herself, recently talked her out of it. She said, you don't want to do it. You just don't. She goes, you're going to hate it. Of course.

You're going to feel horrible about it, so don't do it. All you're thinking about is, somebody came here and got rid of pieces of my friend. Yeah. Am I standing in the exact same area that fucking sick bastard was at that's what i mean who knows and she said you don't want to be there and so she talks her out of going there with the psychic uh blanchard said she and frobel became blood sisters when they were 11 oh yeah poke your finger and do all that after entering eisenhower junior high in hoffman estates they uh yeah they you know pressed

their fingers together did all that they hung out and you know did all that normal shit they would i guess it was a graveyard outside of like next to stacy's house yeah so they would hang out and sit out the window and uh look at the graveyard that's like what kids do yeah you go in there and smoke and shit you know hey let's go smoke by the fucking you'd pick like a gravestone. You like the best to hang out by. Yeah. Let's go smoke near fucking Freddie so-and-so over there. Died in 1954.

Let's check him out. Those ones I can deal with when it's like an old one and like the dates like the people lived a long time or some shit. Yeah. See, though, when you see the baby section, that's the creepy shit. And I want the fuck out of that graveyard. Those are creepy when it's like the same day yeah well like cemeteries that are like big cemeteries are fine but the ones that are weird the ones back east that are like the size of a lot in a

neighborhood the size of a house lot it's like house house house cemetery no house house house house oh it's all over on my dad's street like when I was in high school, there was two of them right in that town. No. And then in Wappingers, there's a ton. Yeah, it's basically, it's in a neighborhood. Instead of a house, it's a fucking graveyard. And it's their little, you know, the size of a house lot. And all the stones are from the fucking 1800s and 1700s and shit.

You can barely, you have to like scrape the dirt out to see the fucking date. Some of them you can't see at all. They're like, some of them are bent forward and back. They're not cared for well. The grass is overgrown sometimes. That's fucking frightening to walk by at night. That's fucking terrifying. Like something's off.

You look at it, it looks like a horror movie graveyard. The stones aren't right. It's not like a nice clean mowed graveyard. Is it just like where a house burned down and they're like, fuck it, put a graveyard in there. No, it's just back in the 1700s there wasn't a neighborhood there it wasn't all houses there so they put a fuck and they made a little cemetery and a lot somebody owned and then they built houses next oh god jesus that's what they did it happens all the time does that drive the property value down i don't know it's got to right but i remember the one that was one on each side

of the street across from each other. In Fishkill, where my dad lived in New York, Osborne Hill Road. There's one. There's an old one. And then I think the other one was a little Jewish cemetery across from it. Right next to this house where these girls who went to high school went. And we went swimming there. Across the street.

Graveyard. Next door. Graveyard. In the pool. And then another fucking house. James in the pool. Yeah. That's right. So. And me in a pool. That's weird. In the pool. And then another fucking house. James in the pool. Yeah, that's right. And me in a pool.

That's weird. So, yeah, they would do all of that. Frobel dropped out of Hoffman Estates High School after her freshman year. And her friend Blanchard here followed up soon after that. At 15, Stacey became upset one day and told her that she wanted her and told her friend blanchard that she wanted to run away to st louis so blanchard said she'd go with her and uh so she said quote we wanted to we wanted to go see the arch so they drove down in a stolen car what um wow saw the arch then got into a fight over a guy they met at a carnival.

And Stacey stormed off and disappeared for three days. Yeah, because that was my carnival. That was my. Yeah. So awful. That's terrible, man. So Stacey. Yeah.

But I mean, she was 15. The girls were 15. They stole a car. They stole. That's hot as fuck. That's pretty cool. Pretty rad. I don't want my daughter doing it.

But you know what? When I was 15, that's the thing. When I was 15, I probably liked her. You know what I mean? I'm not going to lie. She was 15 in 85. That's cool as shit. Yeah, that's cool as fucking 85.

Oh, God. Yeah. We're not trying to judge her at a teen or any other time in her life. We're just saying that she's obviously, obviously something gone awry in her in her life this is not what you want your kids doing here um but yeah they said frobel gave custody of her son um you know there uh gave custody of her son to her mother um she said that her friend said quote this child daniel he's going to grow up knowing uh his whole life that his mother got murdered and that his father committed suicide which we'll talk about what kind of life is that why because stacy had just gotten remarried 10 months before she was killed to jeff uh her original husband as we'll talk about was named michael mcdonald yes old michael mcdonald because in my head i'm going mcdonald frobel and then you said michael and i

lost my mind yeah it's all right so yeah pretty cool it's good stuff so i thought it was him go on she did yeah she's like really really so uh rich you're rich yeah really oh you'll get me out of here so she said her blanchard said that she often noticed bruises up and down stacy's arms she knew that her friend got involved with abusive men her first husband michael mcdonald let's find out what happened to him well he got arrested yeah for drunkenly beating Stacey while she was eight months pregnant. He was punching her in the stomach and in the head at eight months pregnant, drunkenly. Doesn't sound like the Michael McDonald I know. I mean, either.

And either the comedian, either. Right. That guy's great. I opened for him when I was two years in. The nicest man I've ever opened for. Look what I can do. So sweet. A sweet man. Gen yeah a sweet man like genuinely a sweet man like you're like what a nice man yeah i remember guys sarah madame she goes what just

a nice man he is like he's just so nice this is not him no so he did that uh beat her fucking horribly and so was arrested and taken to jail for it luckily um what the problem is took her took him into a holding cell this is while she's eight months pregnant like we said within 15 minutes after he was dropped off in the holding cell he hanged himself with his flannel shirt right there right there he knew he was in a lot of trouble. I guess so. And he was drunk, too. Too much trouble he was willing to deal with. Yeah, something. He was 21 years old. With a flannel.

With a flannel shirt at 21 years old. But you know what? If you punch a girl, I hope that's what you do to yourself. Well, especially a pregnant one. She's eight months pregnant. What is he going to go? She hit me first? She's eight months pregnant.

Don't touch her. You're fucking crazy. Anyway, it's a girl that's pregnant. I hope you have the balls to do it to yourself. That's what I mean. So he did. So good for him yeah good job so uh blanchard said the reason we were so close is because i hurt for her and she hurt for me so they were both had hard lives and they were kind of each other's support system police found out that frobel spent a lot of time hanging out in bars and when they circulated st Stacy's photo around the bars for clues,

everybody knew her. Everyone's like, I asked Stacy every single bar around. They all knew Stacy exactly who she was, her whole deal. She said that she and Frobel did not use drugs together at all. We don't know how true that is or whatever, but it doesn't really matter.

She Blanchard says about Stacy quote, she didn't have a drug problem. She had a love problem she liked guys that were bad for her which is you know fucking can be bad it's also the majority of people that's everybody a lot of people do

I said that would have been turned on by the fucking bad girl stealing a car driving to St. Louis I will kiss anywhere you want so she take me with you. She had this Blanchard had a grocery bag filled with newspaper clippings written about Stacy over the past few months. And she's just obsessed with it. I mean, I felt terrible for this woman.

She said, I just want people to know that she was a beautiful girl. She wasn't perfect, but nobody deserves to be cut up. No shit. Yeah. Not having your life together at 24 perfect. But nobody deserves to be cut up. No shit. Yeah. Yeah. Not having your life together at 24 years old. Is no reason to be murdered. Because there'd be a lot of dead fucking people out there.

Boy. Including myself. Need a lot more graveyard. Fuck man. In every neighborhood. Be packed with them. So yeah. Neighbors say about the Froebles.

That they often fought. Stacey would sometimes leave the house. And they said it's not unusual unusual to hear them yelling and screaming. One neighbor said, quote, they were always fighting, and sometimes she'd grab her purse and her boy and just leave for a while, said a 19-year-old woman named Jennifer Kaiser, who lived in the apartment next door.

She said, quote, she looked like she was mad most of the time, like she wasn't a happy person. Sounds like she wasn't a happy person. September of 1994, the time like she wasn't a happy person sounds like she wasn't a happy person uh september of 1994 she was charged with drunken disorderly conduct for stacy was for yelling in a yelling at someone in a parking lot after police had told her to shut the fuck up or whatever so yeah uh she chart was fine 75 so it was no big deal it just means that she was just kind of

she's just not in situations that are the most conducive to long, healthy lives, basically. So her mother said, quote, At first, I thought she left her husband because that would have been not outside of the realm of possibility for her. But she started to suspect that her daughter ran into some trouble when she never called her son. She's like, she's gone a week and there's no call to Daniel. And that's she would have called her son no matter what situation she was in. She would have said hello to her son and whatever made him feel loved. So she waits. She said that she's trying to explain to young Daniel this whole thing.

The mother says, quote, he's very confused. He wants to know where his mommy is. Well, yeah, clearly. We'd like to know where the rest of her is, too, Daniel. Yep. So back to the investigation. March 7th, police retrace her last steps. mommy is well yeah clearly we'd like to know where the rest of her is too daniel yep so back to the investigation march 7th police retrace her last steps even using directions given to frobel to get to her friend's streamwood apartment they found the directions they questioned the owners

and patrons of local businesses and bars like we talked about everybody knew her her husband and boyfriend both passed lie detector tests, three of them. April 7th, a special FBI surveillance plane flies in from Virginia to take aerial photographs to invade investigators in their search for extra additional extra. I don't know the rest of the body parts. They start zeroing in on a suspect, though, at this point, they have somebody. It's a man who knew Frobel. though at this point they have somebody it's a man who knew frobel and uh also this is when they started going into everyone's prison records they found somebody did time for rape and kidnapping when they were a teenager in the late 80s because he's the same age the suspect's the same age as stacy so they were like hmm let's take a look at him. Yeah. So April 21st, a foot is found.

Another foot is found in a field in Kenosha by somebody just taking a stroll. They found a foot there. And then finally, June 1st, May 31st and June 1st is when the sheriffs from the Lake County fly to FBI headquarters in Quantico, Virginia to develop a psychological profile and see if that fits the person they're looking at here. So, uh, your suspects are obviously the, uh, husband who has been cleared. Obviously they, he, she's got bruises. Sometimes they scream, he leaves.

He's an assistant auto parts store manager. And once he passes everything, they let him go. The boyfriend was a big one here. They never release his name. The boyfriend was the main suspect for a while here. He worked maintenance at a meatpacking plant, which sounds exactly murdery. That's our scary guy. Yeah.

And initially was suspected, but he passed several lie detector tests, had a credible alibi. Frobel tried to call him shortly before midnight on January 3rd from her girlfriend's apartment, but his mother told her he was asleep and she wouldn't wake him up. So if she did wake him up, this whole thing might have turned different. So, yeah, so they've been taken. Like I said, they're off the deal here. Now here's another person, a woman named Shari Runge. They look at her.

Shari is Stacy's girlfriend, and that's where she was last seen. That's the apartment she was last seen leaving on early morning, 1245 a.m., January 4th, 1995. Frobel went to the apartment for a small gathering on the 3rd, and this woman, Shari, told police that Frobel called her husband and her boyfriend before leaving alone in her car at 12.45 a.m. So that's the last person to see her. And she also said two other people at the gathering were her roommate and her fiancé. They had gone to bed earlier in the evening before she had left. That's her story. Just the four of them. It was just the four of them.

Two of them went to bed. The girl stayed up up and talked and then she left at 12 45 phone calls she's out the doors yep and then their top suspect is someone they refuse to identify at this point to not spook him obviously they call him a man in his mid-20s who lives with his wife and children in western suburbs of chicago they started focusing his attention their attention on, the FBI did, as one of the last people to be seen with Frobel before her disappearance. That's when they figured out that he was a rapist and a kidnapper as well. Yeah. So we'll talk about what he did.

He did five and a half years in prison for that, and we'll get into the details of his confession on that. The emergency room records from that attack showed that he covered the girl's body with so many human bite marks they were too numerous to count at 17 years old he did this biting the shit out at 17 that is that's advanced that's angry that's advanced though that's like you don't that that's way later like normally yeah this is fucking crazy and it was a girl he knew he went to school with this wasn't a stranger we'll talk about how he lured her in the whole thing is crazy five years for that he did five and a half years because he was 17 i don't give a shit i don't either that's

way to hear the details so january 1996 they uh like i said they're looking at one particular young man here and they want to talk to him. Lake County Sheriff's Department is working with the FBI now. They're talking about this man. They won't release his name, obviously. They said, quote, we focused on this individual suspect for some time. We've talked with him. I'm sure he's aware of the fact that we're looking at him. And yeah, they said once they found his criminal record

the fbi agent said quote the lights went on and the bells rang now we're looking for that one break in the case that will that will tie everything together that we have so far he says quote if this guy thinks this case is concluded it's a far cry from that we have psych physical evidence that's been gathered by a multitude of agencies and only recently was it all consolidated into one place so it can be compared those tests are being done now so basically your days are numbered is what the fbi is telling this guy who the fuck is this guy love to know it's paul frederick runge it's shari's husband at the time fiance later husband the guy that was in bed he was in bed right he's a truck driver and a former Foot Locker employee. Former.

Former, yeah. We'll find out why he quit there. He's born in Oak Forest and has, as they put it, has, quote, suffered, which I don't know if it's suffering more like outwardly to other people suffer, from sexual sadism since the time of his childhood. Oh, Lord. Yeah. Not just some freaky shit.

He's not just like, yeah, man, I want you to tie me up and like no no no it's power it's i want to i want to put so many bite marks on somebody that they can't count them i can't unless it's obvious i'm in charge yeah it's one of those weird it's not it's not about you feeling bad it's not about me feeling good it's about you feeling bad it's that thing it's exactly what it is that's that's his fucking sickness former footlocker employee they rape you and rape you again and yeah for those jordans are expensive so apparently his mother died when he was 17 and then right after it is when this all happened um so i don't know if that's obviously when you talk about serial killers psychological things there's the triggers something that sets them off there's the cool down periods and all that sort of thing this might have been his first trigger his event it's yeah or the first we know

about we don't know what he's been doing before that uh but this is at least his first trigger is his mother dying and uh his in 1987 this is when this happened. He lured a 14 year old girl to his home while his father and brother were out of town and sexually assaulted her. Restrained her with handcuffs, used duct tape to cover her eyes and mouth, used a knife and basically raped her every way possible. That's with objects with. It's fucking horrific. Five years, five and a half years um went to school they were she was three years younger than him they went to school together that's how he knew her yep he asked her to meet him to help a girl they both knew get marijuana out of her

house he said hey we're gonna get weed from this girl and hide it for her because her parents are looking or whatever so he drove her to his house and motioned her into a room and said oh this is where it is and then he hit her over the head jesus she fell down and then he jumped on her ripped off all her clothes and pinned her down and uh he put a knife to her throat and said well he had his he said you'll know what i'm talking about he said quote don't bite her i'll kill you so that's what we're talking about here handcuffed her like we said blindfolded her um repeatedly did everything he could horrible to her as far as sexually goes um bit her everywhere as we heard about um uh he cut her pubic hair with a knife which is weird i don't know what he was fucking doing there. Is this one of the graphic parts? This is,

well, I'm not going to get into the graphic parts of this. We'll save that, but it's a lot of biting and it's a lot of gross. It's graphic, but it's not as graphic as some stuff here. Um, so yeah.

All right. Well, we'll tell you this here. So this, this will be graphic for a minute, not the beginning part, but 14 and she had the, she,

how do you really enough to cut it? Yeah. Jesus. What? That's horrific. Late puberty, Jimmy. Late onset. Still waiting.

I don't know. Your back's covered in hair. You can cut that with a knife. I don't know if I had enough to cut with a hair at 14 or with a knife at 14. I don't know. That's a lot. So then he handcuffed her to a railing in the living room and offered to take her home if she would drink a glass of Seagram's like booze.

Yeah. Okay. So she finished the glass and then he took her to the bathroom and she threw up because she's 14. So then he raped her more, obviously. So then he cuffed her to a bed with all. This is hours, Jimmy. Oh, my God.

Hours. This was from the night to the next day no the next day he's still doing this more sexual horrificness that i'm not going to give details of then he handcuffed her to a chair and gave her cereal he's a sick fuck did they say what kind i would no i did not hear what kind unfortunately i was curious i was trying to help you out no no so she picked up this chair and tried to escape and so he held a knife to her throat and threatened her picked up the whole thing she just ran away with the chair brilliant kitchen chair i'm dragging this bitch

behind me yeah fucking get out of here man um so he uh he jesus christ so then he cuffed her to the kitchen table cut her hair with a knife oh god which is horrible and then began cutting the inside of her arms and he smiled at her and told her that he liked it wow um yeah and then he was biting her more and he told her shut up that doesn't hurt he's a sick fuck man he there was bites all over her neck, breast, stomach, crotch, legs. It's fucking insane, man. Then there's more. He handcuffed her, raped her more, recuffed her different places, put her in the sofa. I mean, fucking it's insane, man.

She said that he would alternate between his penis and objects of what he felt. He's a horrible person basically so that's all i'm going to say about that way too far at 17 oh there's more i could give you it's fucking disgusting what he did it's it's really bad he ended up basically uh she said that uh i thought i was going to die because it hurt so bad and uh he finally stopped when the phone rang that's what made him stop. He gagged her, bound her ankles

and put her inside a sleeping bag and then put her inside of a crawl space. He told her not to do anything stupid or he would kill her and then he left. So with her hands still cuffed and her legs bound,

she rolled and hopped until she got outside. And a neighbor who lived across the street saw her with her hands and feet tied, crying, shaking hysterically, fucking gagged with scarves around her mouth. Right.

So they obviously called the police. And the police later determined that the father and brother had gone on a trip for the weekend. And he's convicted of aggravated criminal sexual assault, aggravated kidnapping, armed violence, and was sentenced to 14 years in prison but was released in five and a half he gets out in night in 1994 he answered a phone call to go camping and he's like yeah let me clean up a bit on my way that's what he's doing wow yep and then just left her there and disappeared for two days there and he left no he didn't disappear he just went to go do something and as soon as he left, she got outside.

They determined that his father and brother were gone. That's why he was alone in the house. So that was what he did when he was 17. And as we know, people get more mature and more sophisticated and grosser as they get over. What does he claim happened there? He claims it was all consensual. That's what he claimed at first he says he didn't threaten intimidate or use violence um which sorry yeah you did she's 14 she's 14 and she was there's no way she just likes it rough man nobody likes it that rough and in 14 you don't like

anything of any kind anyway other than the cereal should have been the only thing in that entire description that she enjoyed shouldn't have a clue what you like yeah you shouldn't even know so um oh my god so obviously psychologists saw elements of planning and forethought and indicated that he had a capacity for control of trying to control people there was an opportunistic quality to the way he carried everything out police ran when well he ran away when the cops came to pick him up because he knew what he thought he knew what he did and then when they took him you know in and he ended up saying he didn't do it and he ended up admitting it finally here they ended up finding him on examination found him able to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law and sane. However, they did suggest that he had a severe disorder and and the more difficult it might be for a sexual sadist to resist his urges and all this sort of shit.

So he described his upbringing as essentially normal. His dad lived there. I mean, that's not, you know, Christ, he had a complete family. His mom died when he was 17, but before that, he had a complete family. He admitted to a fairly early interest in various types of pornography. And, I mean, Jesus Christ. That's awesome. Yeah, he described his plan while incarcerated to collect virtually every type of pornographic

magazine and rent them out to the other inmates as a hustle that was his idea when he gets in there he's going to be instead of the guy with the cigarettes of the guy with the i don't know how you keister porn that's going to be the problem on a paper yeah other things get in there that's a good one be tough um so that he had a plan though he was like telling the psychiatrist, I'm going to get into prison and get a hustle going. Like you're 17. What is your fucking problem? Um, so they said that he had a propensity to brag and a capacity to be shrewd, calculating

and manipulative. Uh, they said, uh, so yeah, he also, while he was in prison for that shows not to participate in sex offender counseling as well. No counseling, no counseling. No, he likes it. Yeah. So, um, what else has been going on because now some time goes by like i said months have gone by we're into we're into 1996 now while they're still figuring this out well some time passed but on july 11th 1995 a pair of sisters disappear they are the passen uh begavich sisters they're uh bosnian immigrants and they're here and uh the fbi are going to look into runge for that as well because he and his

wife had allegedly offered the women house cleaning jobs through a mutual acquaintance oh yeah his wife yeah and his wife knows a lot of shit yeah we'll talk about it on the day the sisters disappeared the uh the fbi said quote i believe that they left in the company of Charlene Runge to go to her residence for the purported purpose of taking a job cleaning houses. So, yeah, they're looking at this couple. So March 8th, 1996, a year later, goes by. The FBI finally searches his home. Okay. They find kind of nothing really um they seize a knife but it's not a knife knife it's not a business knife it's um well we'll talk about it

here they said that uh uh it's more than 200 items seized from the home of his wife and father and he obviously they took a book about a serial killer who dismembered women he had that in his possession a guide to police radio traffic a crossbow and a stun gun but the crossbow is fine and the stun gun was a battery operated one that they said couldn't even incapacitate a person it was more like yeah it would be like putting a nine volt up to somebody and being like there you go you got both sides of it. Is it still good? So, yeah. So what they said is the knife was like a decorative knife is what they called it.

It was the knife had a five-inch curved steel blade with 10 pointed metal studs protruding from the knuckles on the handle. It was like a brass knuckle knife thing. Basically, they said, and then they found like a toy pistol and the agent said quote i think the toy pistol speaks for itself the stun gun was battery-powered miniature it would not incapacitate everyone and the knife they uh ross i guess he said that uh the agent here ross went to a knife dealer to find out what kind of deal it was and the guy said that it was only a collector's item it's nothing that people would use and so yeah so the fbi agents thought quote nobody thought these items were anything important and uh quote was that inappropriate did we make a mistake i guess in hindsight yes why because he's still on fucking parole

any of those things can't have those he can't have any of those things. No. Especially that knife is a parole violation. Huge violation. Period. Yeah. So that's March 8th, 1996. Uh-huh. He could be put back in jail right now on a parole violation.

For what? Nine more years? Until 1999. Right. That would be. And that is, what is it? Eight months after those sisters disappeared. Yeah.

And then we'll talk about other shit that happens here. So right now, he should be in jail. And he's not. So anything that happens from here on out is on the fucking FBI, in my opinion, anyway. I mean, what the fuck here? It's certainly on somebody. Yeah. I mean, it's his responsibility, too.

They search his home. They do all this shit. Like I said, they took 200 items, all this stuff, the serial killer book. But the FBI agent said, quote, We never felt any of these items, including the knife in and of itself, would be a parole offense, nor were we looking to violate his parole. We were looking for evidence linking him to the disappearances and or the murder of Frobel. So if you think he's a murderer, try to get him in a box for a minute and then figure it out. If you think that he's killing women in a horrible, brutal way and dismembering them. This isn't like, I don't know, he might have poisoned his wife.

This is he's a dangerous person, clearly. So what the fuck is the FBI doing here? I hope bathing his place in luminol. Well, the FBI also at this point started studying bite marks on the dismembered leg they found of stacy because it's got bite marks and that's kind of his jam yeah they followed paul and his wife charlene around they traced calls from pay phones that they used they tapped their phones sifted through their garbage i mean this was a full-blown like john gotti style fucking sting operation here

so they you know they look through all of this by may 1997 he's still not in custody still out going around so think about that they want to lock him up but they don't know how uh so it's at this point when the fbi finally notifies state officials about their findings from the house, what they found on the search months ago. And once state officials see a knife on that list, they go, that's a fucking parole violation. Lock him the fuck up. So June 97, he is jailed for a parole violation. So he's in jail. It's at this point that his wife charlene decides to cooperate with police

she's got a lot to cooperate for because this is they give her immunity it is fucking disgusting this woman we'll talk about how fucking this is crazy and still they were they needed help yeah she's yeah well it's it's insane they start assisting her husband here or assisting law enforcement 1999 his sentence expires they're still trying to put cases together again against Well, it's insane. They start assisting her husband here or assisting law enforcement. 1999, his sentence expires. They're still trying to put cases together against him here. 1999, his sentence expires. So the authorities go to the court to keep him in prison under the Sexually Violent Persons Act.

Psychologists testified that he was a sexual sadist and that he had no remorse for the kidnapping, repeated rape, and torture of a 14-year-old girl. Which will get you, you know, people look at that badly. So he's still being held, and they're trying to link evidence to him at this point. Footlocker should have seen that shit. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So 2000, year 2000, he's in jail. Okay?

He's in jail. He's being transported. He and two other inmates. They're being taken to a Cook County court hearing. They overpower a corrections officer during a routine stop at a red light. And they take off three prisoners. So he sprung from the prison van. Luckily, there was local police literally sitting in the parking lot right by the light that watched them do it and run away in handcuffs so they just got right behind them picked them right back up again and brought them back so that didn't last long they literally didn't even like get to smell

mcdonald's they like got out we're free shit god damn it fuck no or not run bad timing stop god damn it here's the deal don't try to overpower the corrections officers in front of a cop car probably not smart for your own purposes and it's at this point that they find out that dna evidence has linked him to two murders in chicago as well and that's not it too no there's more uh forensic evidence here gleaned from dna find out that he is also responsible for the murders of yolanda gutierrez and her 10 year old daughter jessica muñez uh they were uh boy um once they can once they confront him with this he fucking spills it really they go we got dna on these and he goes all right what do you want to know literally sits back and goes what you want to know yeah i'll tell you

everything and he fucking does so he knows what dna means he knows what dna means yeah he's a pretty smart guy actually paul yeah he's not stupid well how did they find the yolanda and her daughter on the morning of february 3rd 1997 february 3rd 1997 yeah which is after march of 96 when they found the knife so this is an fbi this is on their head right here this is 100 on their fucking head and this guy he should be in jail right now and he's not to be feeling invincible absolutely he's getting more brazen wait till you hear what the fuck he did here uh basically february 3rd 97 a neighbor discovered flames coming from their apartment this is in the city of chicago occupied by Yolanda Gutierrez and her 10-year-old daughter, Jessica.

When the firefighters arrived, they found their bodies on a burned bed. The cause and origin, the investigator with the Chicago Fire Department noted poor patterns, indicating the use of accelerant on the rug around the bed. So it's just did a bad thing. He also observed what appeared to be a restraint on Jessica's wrist. And he said the fire resulted as an adult from a deliberate act. Obviously, Dr. Scott Denton performed autopsies on these two young lady and her mom here. Yolanda's body was clad in burned and fragmented clothing, and she had a gaping, sharp force wound to the neck that cut her carotid artery and jugular vein.

He slit her throat. The wound went deep through the front muscles of the neck, through the large side muscle of the neck, and involved the back of the throat all the way. About half her body had extensive burning and charring. All the way. About half her body had extensive burning and charring. Also, she had been sexually assaulted horribly, not just with a person, with objects here. So they find out that she died from the neck wound, obviously. Jessica, the 10-year-old, also wore fragmented burned clothing. She also had a sharp force wound neck across her neck

and was nearly decapitated. About 75% of her body was burned. And in addition, they noticed stab wounds two inch by one inch on her shoulder there. And also, yeah, they found vaginal tearing and all that sort of thing. He's sexually assaulted. He raised a baby.

He's a 10-year-old, yeah, which is a baby. In every way possible, by the way, yeah. It's absolutely fucking disgusting here. It's bad stuff. Had her throat slashed. It's fucking horrible. So they received everything and got the dna test going and they matched the dna test right to him they said once they told him that uh his dna profile will

be expected to occur in one and one in 32 trillion caucasians uh very specific he said all right what do you want to know he's like well there's no way out of this one. So his confession is as follows. In a statement, he says that his wife, Charlene, was a friend of Stacy Frobel and suggested a threesome with Stacy. His wife did, which happened a lot, apparently, because there's another thing where that's it's all sexual. In January of 1995, Stacy came over to to their house, to Runge's house, and got drunk. That's the night we're talking about in question. According to Paul, Charlene became mad at Stacy and told him to kill her. His stories often involve Stacy wanting to have some sexual activity with other women

and then getting jealous and not wanting them there. That's what his story is a lot of the time here. I don't know. We don't know. Says he wanted the reason, but couldn't handle it. My wife was there. No, no. Charlene got mad at Stacy.

Okay. Yeah. Not Stacy got mad. Okay. So Charlene is a guest. Yes. Charlene wants it. And then once they're there, she's jealous and gets angry.

And this is his story later on, too. Got it. So basically, while Stacy fell asleep stacy fell asleep and while she slept uh he took a barbell in and hit her on the head with it as hard as he could while she slept and killed her then he put her body on a plastic sheet and had sex with her he he yes well she's already dead oh she's dead yeah yeah uh definitely uh also handcuffed her yeah he handcuffed a dead woman to have sex with her of course that's i don't even know what the fuck to i can't my brain doesn't work like that that's all i don't know they already had a threesome

no that never happened when it brought up that her wife got his wife got jealous and all that sort of thing so he did this killed her with the barbell, plastic sheet, had sex with her, handcuffed. Then he had sex with Charlene as well. Charlene was like, oh, I need some too. I don't know what. Chop liver. Jesus Christ. So then he looked over at Stacy and she was dead.

So what he did was the next day he took her into the bathtub and dismembered her using a power saw. Using a saw, he cut her hands, ankles, arms, legs, torso, and head, placed the body parts in plastic bags. Thereafter, he and Charlene borrowed a car and drove toward Wisconsin, scattering body parts as they went. Come on, honey. Let's go for a fucking Sunday drive. Unbelievable. Let's go for a day. I'll put a leg here and a fucking...

I'm disgusted by this asshole it sounds like charlene maybe is brainwashed and like she maybe he's like rough and she's just like maybe do it to her instead of me i don't know either that or she's as sick as he is and is into this benefit of the doubt that there's not two fucking monsters i don't know why we're giving her the benefit of the doubt after that there's trying so hard there is no benefit of any doubt if your husband's killing and raping a corpse killing a woman and then raping her body yeah and you don't leave and go fucking that's on you at that point you're it's all on you then i mean i get that maybe she came from an abusive background and this is whatever psychologically but you know what how

do you get this is too far i'm trying so hard to understand that's what i'm saying man um so corroboration was supplied by physical evidence witness statements uh recovered bones showed the evidence of cutting her skull showed evidence of injury consistent with having being struck by a barbell everything a sample of the carpet was taken from the bedroom in the townhouse where they lived and contained traces of stacy's blood which they should have fucking done to begin with. But they didn't. Another one here, Dina Bartolone, who lived in the townhouse with them.

That was their roommate. Paul and Charlene's roommate said that on January 3rd, Charlene indicated she was looking forward to Stacy coming over for a visit. When Stacy came over, they drank and eventually Charlene told Dina that Stacey would be staying the night. The next day, Paul and Charlene borrowed Dina's car and used more than a half a tank of gas. That's a lot of driving. That's a lot of driving. And Dina said that she had sex four or five times with Paul as well,

including having threesomes with Charlene and including the day that Charlene went to the hospital to give birth. She had sex with Paul. or a threesome i would assume that it was the not the threesome on the day she was getting to be the hottest people on earth ah no so um the yolanda and his daughter and her daughter muniz yolanda gutierrez how did that happen how did he find them well he contacted Yolanda about a Hooked on Phonics program

she was advertising for sale oh no Hooked on Phonics yeah she's trying to help people read oh my god

trying to help people read that's what happens oh boy he went to her apartment and discussed the program with her and then said he would like to discuss

it with his wife and left but is there more to discuss do you want to know how to read or not what the fuck I don't know let me talk it over with his wife and left. But is there more to discuss? Do you want to know how to read or not? The fuck you do? I don't know.

Let me talk it over with my wife. 95 is kind of steep for me to fucking read. This will help you read. Let me think about it. All right. Fucking moron. So he said that he and his wife, Charlene, went to Yolanda's apartment to view the program. According to him, Charllene argued with yolanda

and grabbed her he paul then claims that yolanda grabbed a knife and told charlene to leave he said he grabbed the knife from yolanda and pushed her to the floor he then said he asked charlene for something to tie yolanda up and charlene brought him duct tape which he used to tie yolanda's hands and jessica's hands well we'll talk about it he then put yolanda and jessica on the bed uh he said that he attempted to calm charlene then had sex with her on the bed between the mother and daughter to calm her down i guess um then he said he had sex with yolanda every possible way as well um thereafter he then also raped the daughter as well every fucking way possible um he then said that he pulled their pants up afterwards and proceeded to cut yolanda's throat with a knife and then cut jessica's as well uh he said at that

point charlene came to him with a can of turpentine. And that was that's what it was. He said that, quote, Sherry, that Charlene started giving me a hard time. She's really jealous. She doesn't trust anybody. So if you can't trust your murderous husband, who can you trust? Yeah. So, I mean, who the fuck?

That's what I'm saying. I mean, when you're raping murder together, you figure you got a bond. You know what I mean? You should trust him explicitly. Yeah. So he said that once they were dead, he she said, quote, Sherry said, we can't leave them like this. So she opened up a can of turpentine and poured it over them. And that's where the fire came from obviously but the detective of the case said that charlene actually denied being here for this one so they don't think he's telling the truth so uh they for a former forensic forensic biologist also analyzed all the evidence and testified that she found his semen to match the dna dna samples were there and now on uh they when they interview charlene about this this was not one of the things she said she was involved in so then he gave a second statement where he admitted he was there alone she wasn't there he said he'd been there before he came back on february 3rd discussed hooked on phonics and uh then on the later date

he entered the apartment intending to rape Yolanda. He had duct tape and a knife in his coat pocket to do that. Why implicate her in that? Because he just wanted to make it less sound. He was trying to put her into all of his things. She was there for some, as we'll talk about. She's there for enough. Yeah.

No shit. Is he mad that she has immunity? He's got to be. Oh, he's got to be pissed. Yeah, she did a lot here. Yeah. So this is a little graphic here. Once they're inside the door, he pulled out the knife, grabbed Yolanda around the front,

set the knife to her throat like movie style. He told Yolanda to be quiet and come to the bed and directed her daughter to do so as well. Once he had them both there, he taped their hands behind their backs and he raped them every way possible. And he said that I don't recall ejaculating, but I must have, I guess, if you guys found semen. Yeah. You don't recall? You don't recall. What's the point in doing this?

I can't even tell you this detail. I can't do it. I just can't. Don't do it. It's fucked up. Don't do it. I'm not going to. I'm not going to.

It's too far. I'm skipping it. It's enough. I'm skipping this detail. We know what happened. Yeah. Well, this is an extra sick thing this and it's just well then you gotta say it's extra sick i okay fucking warning here everybody don't listen to this if you think if you are offended by anything because this is horrific and it's making me physically ill so um after he raped the girl, the daughter, she was bleeding. So he put a tampon in.

Oh, my Christ. Fucking piece of shit. I want to fucking punch this guy with my fists. I want to fucking make. Don't you just want to make ground beef out of his face? I just want to fucking maul him. I don't get like his. I'm not sick.

Yeah. So disgusting. Oh, my God. I can't get to. I can't get from A to B there. That's what I'm saying. I don't know why. For what?

What is he doing? Sick man. He's got his own fucking things. Control. I know. Yeah. So, yeah. He said then he cut their throats and he described the gurgling noises and everything else.

He said that he cut Jessica's throat. He said there was blood sprayed all over him. And, yeah, he said that's when he poured the liquid all over him and threw a match on it. And he said that he did that to hide the fact that he slashed their throats, which, yeah, right. So, yeah, he took the duct tape, the knife, the can, and left the apartment and said that at that point, that's the one you got and I can help you solve

some other ones that you have unsolved as well. Oh, boy. What you got? Well, I got this. January 2001. This is the sisters. Denzenita Pazov...

Oh, shit. 2001. Pazin Baganich. This is when they're bringing it up. All right. Pazin Baganich, 22, and her sister, Amila, are both. I was 20 years old. Our Bosnian immigrants here.

He's charged there as well. Two of those bodies have not been found there as well. And also, oh, by the way, they have more more. Okay. He's charged with seven killings and all. We'll get to these basically five counts of first degree murder in Cook County, sexual assault, armed robbery. Then he's in DuPage County. It's a fucking mess. Basically, he got the the sisters over with Lord them there with promise of work as house cleaners.

with lord them there with promise of work as house cleaners once inside the two women uh they came there uh with their uncle six months six months earlier they were handcuffed and eventually he dismembers them and uh we'll talk about that as well he says quote i want the families in his confession i want the families to know what happened to their loved ones i want to do the right thing and help you guys i need help something's wrong with me i don't know why i did this stuff that sounds that's exactly what dommer said yeah when they said to dommer like what he going i don't know i don't know why i wish i knew i mean if you could tell me i'd love to know yeah and like the the ice man yeah said to park dt he was so excited to find out what was wrong with him he said what the fuck is wrong with me why do i do this shit yeah but this is different the ice man he was doing that

shit for money yeah and he didn't care he had obvious reasons definitely not killing women and setting them on fire by his own shit yeah this can you fucking believe this guy's way more dommer than kuklinski but i just meant the whole wanting to know what's wrong with you thing big time eager yeah so uh oh my god so yeah these two what he did was they were last seen on january 11th 1995 the bosnian sisters they were offered a house cleaning job through a mutual acquaintance uh paul began working for a honey baked ham store in the mall you could buy honey baked hams from this fucking guy at the mall i know you hate it that That shit is delicious.

Nasty, sweet and salty. God, I love it. So while Charlene was planning to start a cleaning business is what he said. So he stated that Desaneta tried to run out of the house. And so he grabbed her and slammed her head into a concrete slab, carried her back inside and put her in a bathtub full of water and left the room. By the time he returned, she was drowned. He said that's how he killed her. He just dumped her unconscious body into water.

That'll do it. So he handcuffed Amela, the sister, to a bench and sexually assaulted her and strangled her. Afterwards, he dismembered both of their bodies in the bathtub, put the pieces in plastic bags and disposed of them in garbage bins spread around throughout the area. And, yeah, Charlene was the one who got them to the house. It was her that got them there. And he called in sick the next day at the Honey Baked Ham store. You don't want to sell Honey Baked Hams when you've been butchering people.

It's just, you know, not a good thing here. I've had enough meat today. Yeah. He also called in sick to work after stacy really after that well they were busy spreading body parts throughout the fucking throughout the northland what do you want so uh yeah this is uh fuck man ridiculous so they also find another woman here uh dorita uh dezubiak or zoo zoo back dorita Dorota Zubak, D-Z-I-U. That's how that starts. So it's Zubak.

I don't know how you'd say that. That's impossible. This is from January 1997. Again, after the fucking knife, she was raped and strangled as well. Came across her responding to an ad for her selling a house and her burned body was found on that as well uh his videotape statement regarding this murder he said that uh he related this to his seven up route that took him along because he was driving a truck for seven up so this is just along the route for the seven up truck basically took him along uh this this street in chicago so on the morning of january 10th 1997 he was on just in

the seven up truck looking uh you know on the street and he saw a for sale by owner sign in front of a house he's like i can rape and kill somebody so he just stopped and went knocked at the door no planning went knocked on the door a woman answered who he said he thought was attractive so he said he was interested in looking at the house so she let him in to look at the house people will do anything when they're trying to sell their fucking house seven up truck out front yeah it seems reasonably he's in uniform i'd love to look at your truck oh sure he's got seven up how bad could he be right that's the most least conspicuous vehicle ever it's the uncola i mean obviously he's not going to murder me right he's the un-murder this isn't going to happen kalil man so yeah so he's he's inside going to murder me, right? He's the un-murder. This isn't going to happen. Khalil, man.

So, yeah. So, he's inside. He has to see the furnace, which she indicated would cut out sporadically. And he pretended to know what was wrong with it. And he said, well, I could take a look at it. Maybe I could just adjust it for you. And, you know, whether I buy it or not, it's going to help you. So, when she came over to look at it, when he said, see this thing right here right here come here he grabbed her by the back of the neck and pushed her to the floor he told her to be quiet if she wanted to ever see her daughter again he walked her into the bedroom

and made him perform oral sex on him this will be rough right here so just uh heads up ding ding he then told her to lie down and had vaginal sex with her. Afterwards, he took her into the bathroom and directed her to wash her vaginal area as he was concerned about the presence of semen. He must have seen a fucking law and order or a CSI or something in the meantime. When she came out of the bathroom, he tied her hands behind her back, laid her face down on a pillow on the bed, and was leaning on the high part of her back and neck.

And when he got off of her, she wasn't moving or breathing. Knee in the neck, as we know, will make you stop breathing. That'll do it. That'll do it. So he grabbed a match and threw it in the closet in an area with paper and clothing, and then left while it burned. Wow.

That's what he did. Physical evidence corroborated everything here heating and air conditioning technician reported a fire around 12 30 firefighter entered the house saw fire coming from a bedroom closet took dorothy from the bed and turned her over to the firefighters and uh the fire was deliberately set they said it was with a match and a piece of clothing in the clock couldn't have been more obvious like it wasn't really nobody saw a seven up truck leaving that right it's a fucking seven up truck that's one of those things though that it's like seeing a fedex truck you wouldn't even you don't your brain doesn't even yes your brain doesn't even fucking register and if it does you're like well not the seven that goes you're looking for odd things yeah things like that are not odd

i suppose a soda truck isn't odd you see those every day i don't know but i i would think but people call it the news call it the whatever coverage every time i see a ups man or a fedex man i think about things yeah but you wouldn't in 1997 what'd you do psychopath yeah not in 1997 though and that's another difference is now we're all a little more on our toes, I think, here. And it makes so much sense that the guy that can get in and out of places, that's the dangerous man. Yeah. Watch out for the letter carrier. That's what they always say.

The guy who's mobile. Back in the day, it was the salesman or the guy like that. The mobile motherfucker who can get around, has reason to be places. Now it's the truck driver. Anybody with a thing behind them that can store bodies and shit. Well, it's not only that. It's everybody else. If they disappear for three days, people notice.

If you don't come in the office for three days, people notice. But if you're a truck driver and you're gone for a week anyway, no one notices if in between your stops you're killing people and dismembering them. They're not going to notice it. You're still doing your normal things. Your normal thing just facilitates what your hobbies are, I guess. So a doctor reviewed the autopsy performed here, and Dorothy's body showed extensive signs of hemorrhaging in the eyes, hemorrhages on the vocal cords,

all sorts of loose joint on the hyoid bone, which is manual strangulation. Pressure would have been applied to the neck for three and a half to five minutes to cause this. No carbon dioxide or soot in her airways, which means she died before the fire was started. Extensive areas of burning to her skin and all that sort of thing. And also photographs of her wrists showed that she had been restrained of some kind. There was red marks on her wrist from restraints.

Oh, there's more. March 1997. Not six, seven. on her wrist from restraints oh there's more march 1997 yeah not six seven a year fucking after they searched his goddamn house uh this is casamaria parooch uh she's 43 years old she encountered him when he expressed interest in buying her condominium in march of 1997 she uh he gave a videotape statement for this too he said that he was driving in the area of uh north kenneth and north kenneth in chicago when he saw for sale by owner sign up in the up in an apartment or a condo he was wearing his seven up uniform yeah and he stopped and went inside to the unit listed a woman answered the door he said do you mind if i look at it she said the uncola right come on in did you bring spot with you that guy's

so adorable do you have like so cute i know they have those keychains my kid love it can you get me one for my kid you want for get an antenna ball one it'd be so cute so the woman here uh miss uh peruch she took him through the residence at some point he grabbed her from behind and pulled her on the back of the neck again down to the floor drove her face into the floor making causing her to bleed profusely slammed her face into the floor um he then stood up walked her into the bedroom again this is going to be gross he then pulled off her panties and he raped her. He ejaculated on her stomach and wipes it off, though.

You know, doesn't want to leave anything behind. Jesus Christ. He reached into a cabinet, pulled down. She reached into a nearby cabinet purportedly to get tissues and instead pulled out an iron and swung it at a girl. That's what I'm talking about. But he blocked it with his arm and the iron flew away and uh yeah and that's uh so not good it's at that point that he was choking her and uh noticed that she was not breathing so he poured a flammable liquid on her body lit a match and fucking left um she was found there fire emanating from the bathroom her blower body was unclothed.

An electric cord was across her neck. The firefighter noticed an iron on the bathroom floor, which was the one he blocked. And it caused it. She swung it out and he blocked it. It flew out of her hand and went all the way into the bathroom. She swung hard. She swung everything she had for her life. She swung probably from the floor.

It's probably like a nightstand. She probably went down. She's like, here it is. And fucking came up full force. What else would you do? you do you gotta if you don't nail him you're gonna get fucked here i don't mean you're gonna get killed yeah so um yeah the fire investigator said uh they found exactly the same thing there was a great deal of blood spatter on the wall they found a large gash to the side of her neck in addition to the wire cord around her neck a pair of bloody jeans was on the floor in the bathroom along with the iron blood spatter everywhere deliberately set fire an empty can of stripper was found on the floor in the closet

which is a meat cleaver hanging on the wall of the kitchen was smeared with her blood as well jesus fucking christ um cook county state's attorney richard divine old dicky d he called uh he called this called paul quote a terrible predator well i would say that's an understatement um so wow uh they say they just said he gained the confidence of these women who would pretend to be interested in property he was well spoken he wasn't stupid he had a work uniform on he looked legitimate people let him in. They felt comfortable with him. A worker can get away with anything.

If you have a uniform on, people don't even, they just let you do things. Brought down the mob with them. You can just let you do things. They just let you do things. No one notices them. Phone guy, come on in. It's the same way. So anyway, how are we going to whack Billy?

It's the same reason why nobody got busted at first for shooting paul castellano in the street right in the middle of manhattan during christmas with a million people watching because they dressed up like shriners they just blended in everyone went who'd you see they went a bunch of shriners yeah what they look like shriners they had the jacket and the hat they're like faces bunch of feathers all i saw was the hat that That's what everybody said. It was fucking brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So Dickie D also said, quote, Paul runs our worst nightmare. Yeah, no shit. He conned his way into women's homes or duped them into trusting him. He then raped and murdered them.

He looked for opportunities to make acquaintances with people. He said he'd see a for sale sign up and say he'd like to look at the house things like that you go back and your heart goes out to the families who have lost loved ones there were some pretty brutal attacks here and murders your mind boggles on some of this stuff so the other part is like he's worse than bundy because he's getting into people's lives yeah letting them just do their life and then killing and then he would play at your heartstrings, like get you out of your element. You're still out. Right.

Yeah. Get a guy out. Get a girl or person away from their home. So no one can see you get in their life in no time. And then control them. Horrible. Well, I think that's part of the psychology of it is not only to control them, but to control them in their environment.

Yeah. Like you're uncomfortable. You're in control of their environment right their whole thing and there's no more control than that i should be so uncomfortable yet i'm not yep if you took her to your house obviously she would be uncomfortable obviously but if you do it in her house yeah way worse she came into your world like this is the you're violating her whole world she would know she's in danger that way she'd be on her toes here she's comfortable this is where you get the control if you don't kill her his mind is you're fucking that woman up for the rest of her life so he doesn't give really any interviews but he does submit written answers to a 2006

daily herald questionnaire for him through his father he says i don't let myself accept that i'm guilty of these crimes i feel bad about the pain i've caused but the self-defense part of my brain doesn't let me identify the crimes with me without truly accepting my actions there will never be an equal amount of guilt and remorse to fully accept and realize my actions would kill me so basically he's like i'm gonna act like it never happened and i'll feel better forever okay wow what a piece of shit so uh he said that he wrote that he wrote that he put that in writing and said publish that please that's well i don't even know so stacy's mom comes out now finally after all the confessions and after we know exactly what happened because she's still this has been years.

She didn't know exactly. They didn't tell the mom, hey, we know who did it. We're just waiting to arrest him. That's not what happened. So she waited. She said that she knew that she and the police always believed that he was the killer. She said, quote, I've known for quite a while he was the suspect. And if you look at his history, it's been a long time that i know that i've known it was him so she said she knew but when she got a phone call from the fbi to

tell her that he confessed recently in 2001 she said that she was expecting bad news when she heard it was the fbi she was expecting like they have to let him go or something and instead she said quote i was very surprised i thought i was being called down to be told he was going to be released from jail instead it was that he had confessed to the murders of a 10 year old girl and six grown women including her daughter so this is crazy she said it gives me satisfaction satisfaction knowing he can't do it to anyone else but this is far from the end of my involvement she said quote i will be like his. Anytime I find out there's a hearing, I'll try my best to be there, as will my sons. So she's like, I'm not going to let him forget this shit.

She said that Daniel, at that point, who's 11, knew from the very beginning that his mother had been murdered. He's glad they finally caught his mom's killer. And she also says the family won't forget, either won't forget Runge at all. She says, quote, I plan on making it my mission in life to make his life as miserable as possible. Fair enough. He goes to court for this public defender.

Imagine you're the public defender and you got this in your lap. Who hates me? Oh, fuck. I mean, A, you're going to make a name for yourself. But B, you're going to make a name for yourself by saying insane shit to try to get him off. Because people like us, 20 years later, are going to say, Assistant Public Defender Woodward Jordan. I mean, he's got to defend the guy. But I mean, how do you do it, is my point.

He says that his client was not properly read his rights, was deprived of sleep and given false promises during questioning do you just like fake a stutter like yeah like in my cousin vinny just like fake a stuff i'm getting better almost there drag it the fuck out um but that's his that's his defense is that he wasn't he read his rights and he's he's deprived of sleep and given false promises they're like he fucking butchered seven people he you know we can take all these grown women out and just focus on the 10 year old how's that raped and fucking tore apart a 10 year old girl baby a baby baby fuck i don't care this is one of the this is one of those times where, you know, like we say, we're not a fan of the death penalty because you never know. And the reason why was we'll get to later. Death penalty was taken off in some places is because they found a ton of people that were innocent that they had fucking killed or about to kill.

Makes a lot of sense. But this guy, a rope to the back of my ball hitch and I'll drag him down the road. DNA evidence is awful. All physical evidence. He's admitted it. a rope to the back of my ball hitch and i'll drag him down the road dna evidence he's awful all physical evidence he's admitted it he's detailed every fucking thing he did which matches all the physical he one million percent conclusively did every fucking thing he did what are we doing like this is the guy where you're like i don't care if it's murderers you know there's one execution every 30 years because we don't like executions whatever the 30-year period is this is the guy where you're like, I don't care if it's murderers. You know, there's one execution every 30 years because we don't like executions. Whatever the 30 year period is, this is the guy, I think, right here. I mean, I'm fuck.

Worse than Dahmer. He's worse than Dahmer. Absolutely. He's worse than Bundy. He's worse than Bundy. This guy is the fucking. This is the worst. He reminds me of the I-5 killer, Randall Woodfield.

That's what he reminds me of out in Oregon and Northern California. We did that in Crime and Sports, actually. Oh, he went all the way to San Diego. Yes, Randall Woodfield, Crime and Sports, like episode 55 or something, we covered him. He was drafted by the Packers and was cut in training camp. So the sports part of it is like five seconds long, and then it's all talking about his serial murder. And the awful things he did. And awful things.

He reminds me of this guy a little bit, except that guy traveled. This guy does it right around where he lives, which is even fucking more arrogant. I only go like 15 miles an hour. And then somebody can shout from a bullhorn the names of the women that he did things to as he's drugged behind my truck. Yeah, that's fine. I think that's humane as fuck. I am good with that. I think that's humane as fuck.

I am good with that. So basically, every clinical psychologist, everybody is called for the defense to testify for him. Everybody says he's not crazy. He's not insane. But he's definitely got a mental illness of some kind. He's a sexual sadist, all this shit. But he knows right from wrong. He knows what he's doing.

He could not rape people if he really tried. But he just doesn't really try now we i have a ton of uh psychological shit here on him because this i found the cycle i want to know what the fuck is going on in there where's the it's like taking apart a watch and going where is it wrong is that wheel supposed to be hooked onto that thing what the fuck is in there how does it get continuity from the battery to the hand yeah how does that work exactly um so yeah he one of the one of the doctors described him as being normal 95 of the time but when his urges built up he would become extremely violent and would rape and murder yeah he had like these cool offs and then huge blow-offs of looking for these people goddamn cereal and at first it was with wife, and then he dropped her off

and just started doing it on his own. At first, it was like a thing between the two of them, which is even fucking weirder. But we might do a bonus episode on the psychology of this guy. We have to. There's so much. I don't want to just blow it off,

because to me, that's the thing that we want to know about him. Otherwise, fuck him. That's a mean potato. Is why, so it won't happen more. You know what I'm saying? So maybe we'll do that next week for know about him. Otherwise, fuck him. That's a mean potato. Is why so it won't happen more. You know what I'm saying? So maybe we'll do that next week for a bonus episode. I'm not sure.

But either way, he's called to have disorders, but not anything that's going to find you innocent. He doesn't not know where he is. Right. So he is only convicted here, found guilty of the murders of Yol gutierrez and jessica muniz that's the only ones he's found guilty for on this particular thing they don't try him for anything else right now that's the first two because they have the dna evidence very solid it was inside and it's there so uh sentencing here prosecutors name him quote the face of the death penalty like yeah this is the guy this is if there's one guy if you only kill one man this year make it this man right now like it's

one of those things it's also like a political pitch yeah that's a political statement of i even if you are completely against yes ah still you want to kill him how about no one else in just him because that's where i'm at you know what i mean but i don't even the state shouldn't do it they should find whoever's got the biggest relative and let them beat this man to death that's what if they feel like it if not maybe it's life in prison maybe not even let just be like you have here's the key and we're gonna be over there yeah not necessarily let necessarily lead. It's on you. Just give him like some workout gloves. You know, nothing that'll stop the beating.

Just, you know, not to cut his hands up and stuff. Send him in there and you get 15 minutes. Do whatever you want. Fucking something that can't be a weapon and can't be taken away from you. Like shards of glass on the knuckles. I'm okay with it. That's fine. You can go in there with whatever you want.

No, I want him to go and rip somebody limb this guy deserves anything he doesn't get to fight back we handcuff him to a chair oh yeah oh absolutely handcuffed like a motherfucker so said he's the the fucking the goddamn face of the death penalty the jury finds him uh eligible here on here's all the statutory grounds here's here's all the aggravators uh murdered a person obviously uh jessica was under 12 years of age and the death resulted from exceptionally brutal and heinous behavior and wanton cruelty uh he killed jessica muniz during the course of another felony and the murder during the murder of jessica was committed in a cold calculated premeditated manner pursuant to a preconceived plan scheme or designed to take a human life by unlawful means for the murder of Jessica was intentional and involved the infliction of torture.

The murder of Yolanda was committed in a cold, calculated, predetermined manner and all the same for Yolanda. So you, sir, may fuck off death penalty for this guy. He gets a death penalty here. Now, June of 2000. That's in 2006. So in June of 2006 here, they are trying to get a new trial and a new sentencing hearing. But a judge just denies the motions and says, nope, we can sure love to kill this guy i'll do it if you don't want to do it just put him in a garage and i'll start my car up for a while and just read my

emails by the time i'm done he'll be fucking done i'll just scroll through twitter and uh i'll see you guys can shovel him up when i'm done so 2009 in may he he appeals his sentence here. The Supreme Court of Illinois, in a divided decision, actually upheld his conviction, rejecting his argument that he was denied a fair trial. In his appeal, his legal complaints about his trial included juror misconduct because justices considered evidence that one juror cheered openly in the courtroom for the prosecution through his notes against the side of the jury box during a defense witness testimony and that jurors disregarded warnings not to discuss the case basically they all sat there and were like when can we fucking say to kill him how long is it today what are you shut up we want to decide to kill him already you fucking bastards it's very very very decide to kill him already. Fucking bastards. It's very, very, very hard to not feel that way.

Obviously, the legal system or whatever. But I want this guy dead. Fuck him. So, yeah, these seven justices affirmed the decision. But there was some serious dissent on that, obviously. Yeah. One of them wrote, quote, I recognize that the crimes at the issue here were horrific, but it's precisely these types of cases that test our commitment to the principle of law. We must not allow ourselves to be swayed by emotion. Given Illinois's history with capital cases, the majority opinion sends the wrong message about how these cases will be treated in Illinois, which is true, because if you do this and then it's a bunch of normal murder cases that aren't this guy, yes.

But we really want to kill this one guy, though. That's what it should be. You should give people one every ten years you can do. That's it, though. It has to be the worst guy ever. You can't just be like, well, he robbed a 7-Eleven. Let's kill him. No, no, no, no, no.

It has to be you took a child apart. Then you get to fucking be killed. And her mother, let's test fire him in a rocket somewhere. That'd be great. That would be awesome. Yeah, let's get creative with this shit. Elon Musk, if you need a pilot, I know where one is. Yeah, let's get creative on things, like fun things.

Let's pack him full of fireworks and shoot him out of a cannon and have him fucking explode in a glorious celebration someday. Just put one in his ass and see how far he goes fine so that rich man that shot himself up in that rocket and then the parachute yeah yeah caught in the thing this rocket just plummeted that's great that's what we should do with it no parachute that's fine just see how far it goes whatever is fun for everybody so i'm like the 4th of July. Yeah. Freedom. In 2011, the death penalty is abolished in Illinois due to, as we talked about, multitudes of problems here. So it's at this point that the prosecutors drop charges against him for the murder of Stacy Frobel and the murder of the Bosnian sisters. Well, they said they decided to drop the charges. His death sentence is automatically

converted to life without parole so he has no chance of parole so they said that the state's attorney robert berlin said he decided to drop the charges concerning the sisters citing it would be a waste of time since he's already been sentenced to the highest punishment available in the state and he's exhausted his appeals on it too so they're like he's he's in there forever nothing we can do all we can do is get him in there for more ever there's no other death penalty or anything i mean there's also a problem with that case that if if they try that and the lead fucking witness also murdered with him that's the thing that might get appealed and and they might win their appeal let's just keep it the way it is they said in the statement the decision to drop

the charges wasn't made without deliberations. The sisters' families were consulted as well as staff members. The guy said here, I do not take this action lightly, and I know, as I know that to some, it may appear as if Mr. Runge has in essence gotten away with murder

since he will not be punished for these murders. The fact is that he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. Even if we were to proceed to trial, Mr. Runge would be found guilty of the murders. Since the death penalty is no longer an option, he would not receive any additional punishment. Now, I found a couple of things here. Comments that you could, if you look deep in some of these news articles, you'll find people that know them commenting on it.

I found an old girlfriend of Paulul's yeah from high school describing him maybe we should save that for the flake psychological thing maybe so let's do that they went to prom together we'll put it that way oh shit it's prom date she was his first she was he was her first oh so god we'll talk about that and uh i also found a comment and that was post his oh yeah this is after this is 2007 she made this is after the i mean oh this is 2007 no no no james her date with to the prom was after the 14 year old before because he was in prison after it was before he was like it was the year before wow yeah so he hadn't gotten that far yet um but yeah that's um yeah um so that's that um we can uh we'll we'll put that in with the psychological stuff now the son her son daniel here posted in 2008 in january of

2008 on the one of these blog crime blogs this kid's 30 uh now he is yeah at the way he treated us she died right before she tried to divorce jeff and sherry she knew about the murders all along celeste that's a woman who's commenting thank you for the info this was more mostly new to me if you'd like to reach me and then he puts his email address on there too i would like to talk to you all thank you stacy's son daniel he seems like a good kid who's looking for answers and uh he's gonna be an angry kid man i would be fucking furious all the time if that was me and i'm angry anyway and nobody killed my mother so this is fucking wild um i don't know about the jeff being involved he passed multiple polygraphs and sounds like he still doesn't like i think

jeff might have killed her if it went on maybe Maybe Jeff would have killed her, too. Who the fuck knows? But he got beat to the punch, man. So Paul is in the Pontiac Correctional Center in somewhere here. He's in custody. And if anybody sees him in there, I mean, hey, nudge, nudge. Do what you got to do. Anyway, so Paul, I found on that serial killer auction bullshit site, somebody bought a fucking handwritten envelope of his for 12 some asshole now one last thing here there was a woman named amanda taylor okay

taylor and her ex uh her taylor and rex taylor who's her husband they ended up killing they killed a man okay they tried to make it out like a suicide. They killed a man. Anyway, what ended up happening is they were a friend of hers said that she and her late husband had an obsession with death and all that sort of thing. They reportedly become pen pals with Paul Runge. They were his pen pal. were his pen pal rex taylor even changed his facebook name username to rex runge in honor of his jailed friend and expressed admiration for james holmes and fucking anders brevik the fucking those mass shooting assholes what ended up happening is after they got busted for the murder there uh or so whatever the fuck happened i don't think they did the murder i didn't read the whole story but i got to the end here and uh basically i think rex killed his dad or his father-in-law or something rex ended

up committing suicide okay you know the other stuff's alleged i don't know exactly i gotta read the whole thing but he ended up committing suicide so following his suicide paul from prison sent his widow the amanda taylor i think yeah, Amanda Taylor, $1,000. What? A serial killer who's in prison sent someone $1,000, which means people are giving him money. This is just recently. Wow. That means people are giving him money.

Gross. $1,000 is a fuckload of money to have in jail. And to have that to give out? Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? He was working every day in prison since the day he got in. He wouldn't have still made it. fuckload of money to have in jail and that's like to have that to give out yeah if he was fucking kidding me every day in prison since the day he got he wouldn't have still made it all he just gave it all to her it's bullshit he that means he's got more money someone's giving him fucking money which is asinine that is awful two things i have to do this is terrible before we wrap it up

uh i have to say please don't confuse this paul runge with two other paul runges that come up and i'm not trying to do this as a joke or like we do in crime and sports. I feel bad for it. But, dude. I feel bad for it. They come up right hard on a Google search, man. One is Paul Runge, who's a former Major League Baseball player. Yeah, he played for the Braves.

He was a third baseman and a second baseman. He was born in 1958. He's from Kingston, New York. I know exactly where that is. Yeah, he was born two years apart. That's why I was like, is this like is this him and then i was like no he was in prison when this guy was playing baseball this is a totally different podcast now totally different podcast then there's also in germantown tennessee a dr paul runge md who's a pediatrician worked his ass off so please he had nothing to do with this he's not gonna helps kids he will not rape and kill your children i'm pretty sure don't hold me to that but he doesn't he's got five fives all his ratings

are five star he's great so i doubt that he's accepting new patients so for any lost business he might have had from this please take your child to see him poor bastard that is the case of well starts with stacy frobel and it goes on from there into a lot more and of uh just a i don't know an unraveling fucking yarn ball i'm so sick and friendly the dog is going to bring home what a good dog what a good boy he's a good boy but that was uh kind of a crazy episode dreamwood illinois holy shit if you like that episode or you want to tell us about liking the episode or any parts of our show please do it we beg of you get on apple podcasts that purple icon give us five stars helps a lot why we don't

fucking know no clue why it helps but it does for some reason it helps drive us up the charts that i don't know why it counts against their funky little algorithm so get on that do that head over to shut up and give me murder dot com for everything. Small town murder related. All sorts of merch up there. New stuff all the time, as well as get your crime and sports things there as well. You should be listening to crime and sports if you're not. This is fun. This week we did Oscar Pistorius, which is a we took apart a murder there.

Not a lot of sports, mainly about an arrogant murdering asshole. So you can check that out and then go back to the catalog and go through it if you think that we're marginally funny on this show you'll really like crime and sports trust me on that check it out give us a chance and uh head into there also you can follow us on uh oh wait also with the crime and sports and that uh what is it yeah also ps i hate this movie listen to that as well and if you if you want to help out more follow the show on social media do that where uh we are at murder was that murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram

and uh you'll find crime and sports stuff on there as well check all that out hang out with us also if you like the show go on to facebook and go into some of those groups there's a ton of groups like the fan groups and they all kind of go over stuff and they seem like a lot of fun people have fun in there so i seem to uh limit the fuckery they keep the fuckery out yeah they monitor it well it's pretty good so check that out and have fun with the whole community because uh we all kind of get along it's a big community so do that hang out with us if you want to be an even bigger hero. Good God.

You are the most heroic producer of the show. You're going to get things for it. Things for you. You're going to get Jimmy mispronouncing your name. Just in a moment coming up here. You're also going to get access to all of the bonus material. So much bonus material. All sorts of good stuff.

We had a wild ass murder last week week in Tennessee where, oh boy, there was buckets full of parts. We'll just put it that way. More buckets than Kentucky Fried Chicken. That shit was nasty. So check that out. It was a recent one. Guy had social media pictures.

He was super creepy. And yeah, you'll get on that. Check that out. This week we'll have more stuff for you. You can get access to everything like that and all the crime and sports bonus as well at Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. Anybody above the five dollar level is going to get all the stuff they can handle. And as well as that, if you want to be just a nice person who wants to help a couple of podcasters out and get some good karma for yourself, you can do that as well. You can go over to PayPal, use our email address, which is crimeandsports

at gmail.com. And God damn it, Jimmy, I've had it. It's been a crazy wild story. I need good news now. Give me the names of my favorite God damn people

on the face of the earth that would never sever my body parts and scatter them all throughout the Northland. Hit me with them, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Clay Thorson,

Chris McLeod, Richard Monge, that's DickLeod, Richard Monge. That's Dick Monge. Dick Minj. Debbie with no last name. Melissa Turner. Darlene James. From the Nantucket Minjas.

Right. Darlene James. Marcella Kellum, I think. Pack Skulls. I don't know what that is. If it's a business or whatever. Or if it's somebody's name, that's fucking cool. Chantel Kemp.

Kelly Kunecki, I think, Martz, Betty LaFrance, Katie Farrell, Nathan Neidlinger, Jesse with no last name, Charlie, is that? Yep, Moxham, Jordan Bennett, Jesse with no last name, Robin Sherrill, M. Louisa Edmondson, Brooke Dover, that's Ben's sister, obviously. Robin Sherrill, I said that. Tom Jordan, Justin's Ben's sister, obviously. Robin Sherrill, I said that. Tom Jordan.

Justin with no last name. Keith Cook Jr. Aaron Isabella. Ant Fun, I think. Sean Cook. Cindy Bitter. Chris Bartolino. Braden with no last name.

Taylor Cody. Lauren Chow. Cow, I think. Jason Ventry. Carolyn Clark Rivera. And Katie Doherty. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. We can't do it without you.

Other producers this week are Jess Lara, Thomas Smith, Jude Kendall, Lucinda Scheriffs, Craig Roberts, Joanne Ahern, Aspen Cloud, Bradley Herbold, I think, Alexander Faulkner, Foxy, is that right? Foxy Beaver? No. God damn it. I'm an asshole. And I fell for it. Fiona Lees, Louise Rayfield, James Martyr, Tyler Smurr, Craig Cole, Gil Valais, Valis, Amy Ahlstrom, Kirsten Christensen, Nicole Vaughn, John Mark Lewis, Santiago Quinones, Dakota Seward,

Albert Mueller, Julia Schuster, Jordan Vees, Andy McLean, Steve Schnell, Peyton Meadows, Samantha Bonsack, Kelly Schmidt, Dan Dobay, Christine Valdez, Brandon Ables, Janice Kraft, Jennifer Peltier, Liz Leatherland, David Fortner, Rick with no last name, Ashley Veo, Maria Raspier, Jared Brown, Vicki Morley, Kaylin Hanson, Amy Hosler, Christy Stout, Carl Kushner, Robin Anderson, Danielle James, Matt Tenney, Sir Blackamus of the Prime, Mandy Knight, Kip Suesley, Jeffrey Cram, I think, Jimmy Davis, Kevin Greenier, Taylor, just Taylor, no last name, Frank Fortucci. Taylor. Taylor. It's an e on the end that's why okay yeah that makes sense brandy taylor was a porn star and that's how it was pronounced was it lore isn't that taylor okay i'm sure her middle name was taylor it doesn't matter katerzina uh near the near ziolka ah that's Russian, I'm sure, right? Or Czech or something. Joseph McGlynn.

Eastern Bloc of some kind. Something over there. Jessica Bongermind. Bongermino. Nicholas Mesker. Luke Hutner. Alita Rad. Alita.

Nightingale Photography. Flavie Duguay-Laborne. No. Theo Von's Mullet. That's easy enough. Sarah Bratt bratcher uh macinda melinda hughes i don't know what i did if that's a c or an l justin brockman maria chichiri paulo uh paulo gilly matt karuch dana russ johnson sarah martinson uh larry hutchison brian bastard Russ Johnson, Sarah Martinson, Larry Hutchison, Brian Bastard. Nope, that's Bustard.

I'm sorry. Janice Hill, Alexander Wilcox, Aaron Sherman, Graham Cannon, Allie Preble, Georgette King, Mark Balboni, Lily Whitaker, Michael Hamecki, Lyson Cabioche, probably not. Ellie Spoonable, not likely. Benny Nielsen, K watson sabrina hancock julie penny uh sunday would know last name sean would know last name justin thomas mark adams karina summer kaylee hopkinson cross caldwell soul mech uh matt smolsky ke Kevin Rosenberger, LC, Emily Hoffman, Nadine Carter, Amy Labossiere, Advanced Water, Taylor Lundgren, Jessica Nash, Karen Angetro, Emma Branaby, Andrea Buckley, Sina Mori, Laura

Looney, Adam with no last name, Catherine Lunsford. Anthony Antoninka. Jenny Berg. Bridget Moulton. Ashley and Kenny. Larissa. No, that's. Yeah. Ashley Kenny.

What am I doing? Larissa Murillo. Steve. Steven Vasquez. Michaela Lucitni. Lucitti. Mariska. Marissa O'Keefe.

Josh Compton. Chase Olson. Caitlin McKernan. Chloe McGrath, Robert Balder, Kelly Hegan-Stahler, Alejandra Snezana. Snezana, I like that. Snezana? She's got lots of allergies. I think so. Alex Johnson, Rohan Bahaj, Christina, what is this, Kosi, Kochi Hernandez, I think, Chris

Juarez, Jeffrey Jones, Molly Apple, Aaron Graham, Julie Kelly, Paul Genet, Drew Millhorn, Mr. Cirque, Rekha Roney, no, Drew Donforta. Dan Forta. Chet. I'm trying. Chisa. I'm trying. Chisa Minota Shono. John Hedgepath.

Hedgepath. Carly with no last name. Jesse with no last name. Cherish Cave. Cave. Dom Passion. I think. Jason Ebenhack.

Kimberly Rice. Jared with no last name. Andrew Denton. Stephanie Brooks. Wendy Nesmith. Shane with no last name, Andrew Denton, Stephanie Brooks, Wendy Nesmith, Shane with no last name, Nathan Foster, Ingrid Me or My, Liz Campbell, Chris McCleary, Amanda Cronin, Peggy Bruner, Alan, nope, that's Allison Garrison, Jesus, Natalie Kind, Denby, Heckle, Debbie, what is that? I don't know what I did. Denise Heckle.

Oh my goodness. Jesus. Denise. That's a tough one. Anthony Getty? Jacob? No, that's John Jacobs. Squeeps?

Stephen James Tucker? Elena Oish Ulrich? James West? Liberty with no last name. Zachary Reeder? Tony Bevilacqua? Adam Webb? A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. Fairchild? Raven? Melissa? bevel aqua bevel adam webb ayala ayla fairchild raven melissa adam webb ariel ariel ortiz brannon faust brannon faust victoria d'angelo michael critch david schnitger i don't know what all the difficult ones i write them fucked up too yeah you write them and i'm not helping myself jordan hillman uh caitlin kovitch kovit couch jorge torres caitlin's cha what

danielle danella uh mendoza ardona lisa yone delia hunt fuck heidi or he'd heidi it's got to be heidi johnson sav hallie haley nicky redmond corbin reina uh jackson lena god joseph joshua viera viera becky becky decker becker i don't know miranda rain scott with no last name daniel daniel barnes angelia joe dawson, Caleb White, Kenda Keller, Abel Robles, Don Meredith. Ended up right where you started. Yuval Rigev, JD with no last name, Kendrick Wallace, Angela Davidson, Kooch, Chooch, Chooch McDonald. No, real John. Chooch, like my grandmother used to call people a big Chooch.

Chooch McDonald. No, real John. Chooch. Like my grandmother used to call people a big chooch. Chooch McDonald. Okay. Jordan Perkins. Ricky Lloyd. Carly Seward. Kyle Murray. Ryan with no last name. Sean Karstensen.

Malin Lindberg. Adam Harbergerger. Haberberger. All right. All ready. I'll watch the wire. That's what that says. All right.

Good. Lauren Baker. Blue Kieran. Matthew Johnson. Alyssa Nesbitt uh elisa elisa alisa casey clark jordan petty yes jeremy uh costigan it's his birthday happy birthday amy amy mirable mirable uh kevin riley shiana cologne h Hannah with no last name, Colin Spencer, Graham McGregor, Rob Stanford, Sanford, Courtney Seaslick, Abigail Manning, Marella Sebring, Heather Toot, can't be right, Quincy Markowitz, Laura with no last name, Brian Gauger, Tamara Camamillo, Megan Holtrup, Jason Stuck, Ryan Shank, Stephanie Hud, Damian McArthur, I think, Cintron, Cintron's Lemons, Michael Cannon, Jamie French, Joe Weinberg, Monica

Kendrick, Devin Creason, Nina Korzenewski, I think Heather Nelson, Evan Bubba-Smith, Gina Mara, Kai Kinsler, Bees Knees Born to Please. What? All righty then. I don't know what I had to read there. That's good. Gross. Or not.

Or not. Who knows? Could be great. Good for you, person. Thank you. Ellen Hiroka, Emily Perdue, Cheyenne Rickleman, Mariah Plotkin, Adam James, Brandi Whitehouse, Ashley Grant, Michael Hartley, Courtney Perkins, Cody Kinison, Carrie Merrill, Lisa Holmes, Misty Keene, Janice, nope, that's Killian. What?

Killian Coleman, Sarah B. Solo, Amanda Nicole Lewis, Matthew Troll, Julie Callen, Brian Borer, Jackie Thomas, Wes Clark, Alyssa Tyler, Sarah Acosta, Frankie O, Jeff with no last name, Nicola with no last name, it's just Nicole, not Nicola, Layla Hallman, Kyla, Sarah D'Antonio, Nicole Nagoski, Blue Yake, Yaki, I don't know, Sean with no last name, Elijah Wegner, Andrew Rick Brote, what, Rick Bratt, Amber Estrado, Chelsea Galosh, Tracy Renninger, Paul Ashton, Alice Agner, Nicole Reardick, what, Allie Lewis hannah omari uh danielle dull jordan with no last name jessica de horty de horty michael growl jenny uh jenny genie streeter helena with no last name wimmy jisman uh dylan lahey hope with no last name smelly weasel 23 instead of you know yeah in case you got it

confused uh emmy emma stegmanels out there. There's at least 23. Shelly Steed. Geeky Enigma. Molly with no last name. Ruben Santos. Stefan Lick. Or like Lick. Luck.

That could be luck. John Bunger. Dwayne Stevens. Kayla. What is that? Kayla Carpenter, I think. Sandra Lovejoy. Christine Kendall.

Omar Navarro. Asia Clark. Larry Hutchison. Bratcher Arts. Lynn LeBlanc. uh sandra lovejoy christine kendall omar navarro asia clark larry hutchison bratcher arts lynn leblanc uh annie eckler sarah ver uh for sure i think for sure uh don jackson uh joe boudreau kelly mcconville zach no zeke and jazz uh brock Mahmoud Rahman, Corey Bone, Boone, shit, John Mize Jr., Charles with no last name, CK, probably not Louie, Rachel Wallman, JW May, get this right, Cherie and what is this, Cheryl Biel, Bill Rose, Benjamin Page, Anna Hill, Chris Gatorno, G with no last name, Andrea Rowe, Heather Dunn, Timothy Lamb, Stephanie Vincent, Aaron Davis, Anna Van Sluelen, Amber Marks, Brendan Finnegan, KJ Winter, Billy Sun, Juliana McCauley,, Collie. Just Juliana Collie. Cindy Hinton, Jennifer Gooch.

Gouch? I think it's Gooch. Warren Pierce, Cindy Hinton. I said that. Karen Cooper, Anthony Del Monte of the Del Monte Fortune. Fucking so much money. Jeff with no last name. And peas, as far as I can see.

And carrots. Michael McNurt, Murnick. Peter Roningen, Alyssa Colazar, Adam Apple, Melissa Swigert, Mason Pritchard, Samaria Towns, Samantha Goodwin, Dustin Poe, Dusty Poe, Noma Kumalo, Blake Wooten, Dick Kennedy, Laura Moore, Carrie Murrell, Merrill, Morgaine Holloway, Jesse. Nope, it's just Jess Merrill. Joe Kashurik. And also, then there's Nicole D. Dio.

And all of our patrons, obviously. Thank you all so much for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. You are the life's blood of the show, and fuck do we appreciate it. We really, really do. Thank you so much.

Jimmy, what if they wanted to thank you? How might they do that? You may find me at Wismansucks on everything. Where can they find you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funnier. You can just copy and paste the name. You know how that works. You'll figure it out somewhere.

But man, thank you guys so much for joining us. And more stuff coming. Connecticut next week. Wild shit all the time we had a nice time with this yes it was it could have been it was mellow it could have been i could have went into more detail but there's a lot more detail that is absolutely fucking disgusting that and that that's in addition to the gross shit we said but there was more stuff that was like yeesh that's a little too detailed um maybe that's why it's not on dateline

yeah maybe that's why so lester holt reading the script going oh my oh fuck no that's disgusting can we just do scott peterson again i won't say that do that again he put her in the water like a nice man this this is disgusting this is terrible so uh with that said everybody keep coming back and joining us every week and And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.