Small Town Murder - #206 - Why Charles Manson Wasn't In "Friends" - Moses Lake, Washington

Episode Date: January 14, 2021

This week, in Moses Lake, Washington, the dynamic in a group of young friends becomes very weird, when everyone decides to live in a one room apartment together. The problem is, some are runaways, one is pregnant, some are just plain dumb, and one claims to be a 19 year old Mafia hitman & high Satanic priest, named "Shadowlord". This all leads to a disturbingly brutal crime & even more inept cover up! Along the way, we find out that not all of Washington state is rainy, that teenagers can flip their whole image on a dime, and that you shouldn't have 10th graders help you cover up a murder!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcastin See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Moses Lake, Washington, the dynamic in a group of young friends turns very dark very quickly and the results are an absolute horror. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us we are excited as always to give you terrible stories. As odd as that sounds, when you hear the show, it makes sense. So thanks for joining us, everybody. If you watch the news, it's camouflaged with it anyway. Yeah, what the hell. So thank you very much, everybody. Crazy story as usual this week. And if you didn't hear last week, you should probably go back and listen to that one.

Because we're on a run of some weird stuff. And this week, again, very odd story and some crazy stuff going on. And just quickly before we get started, first of all, Apple Podcasts, Purple Icon, give us five stars. It helps a lot, and we don't know why. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. It's very important. Why? Because you can get your tickets to the virtual live show January the 29th thisth this year 2021 and it will be available for 72

hours after that as well yes and it's going to be good stuff this virtual live show we have it's going to be just like a theater show regular case not a not even the prisoner dating game regular case real show mics table visuals the whole deal it's going to be just like in a theater except you will be in your house that's how it's going your house there but you'll be there we won't be there either but we'll be there so do that shut up and give me murder.com you can get all your merch there as well also patreon patreon.com slash crime and sports yeah we're growing nuts on patreon it's been so fun it's been wild we did the uh the one star terrible small town reviews on our last patreon that i'm telling you i understand you're like oh it's a murder show it's so funny yeah you have to hear this it's one of the one of the funniest shows we've ever done about anything

it's just hilarious to hear and the show we're good sports we'll talk about how much people hate us sometimes even talked about a little much how people hate us as well so you can do that and we'll have a story next week a murder story actually next week for Patreon that is one of those stories you know when we have those stories where someone dies and you go that good I don't like that

person anyway you know those victimless crimes where the person's a monster and you're like well so yeah this one coming up is one of those ones where you'll you you'll be happy with the outcome which is a weird thing to say but if you've heard the show you know what we're talking about trust us on this one and minimum and different believe that absolutely that is patreon.com slash crime and sports you get everything there both shows worth the patreon all sorts of good stuff and jimmy you'll mispronounce your name at the end of the show because you're a producer now we love it

and if you just want to be a nice person with good karma and a producer who jimmy will mispronounce your name you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail dot com quickly the disclaimer this is a comedy show there's murders that happen terrible murders horrible stories they happen all over the world we talk about some of them we're going to make This is a comedy show. There's murders that happen. Terrible murders. Horrible stories. They happen all over the world. We talk about some of them. We're going to make jokes about things.

Now, that sounds weird. I get it. If you're new to this, you're going to go, well, that's strange. You're going to talk about a murder and then make jokes about it? Yes. But trust us on this. There's a lot of weird stuff that goes on around murders. And we go out of our way not to talk about the victims or the victims' families.

Why? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. There you have it. That's it. We talk about that. We talk about small towns. Don't be offended by anything about a small town. We're doing this because we would make fun of where we're from harder.

That's just, it's a roast. It's fun. That's it. We've never been to these places. We don't know. We go by what by what people say and it's funny so lighten up and joke about it it's a good time if that all sounds good to you we are going to have a blast yeah and i think it's time yeah i think it's time to sit back and clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this all right let's do it let's go on a trip, shall we? I would love that. We're heading out from the East Coast, obviously. Where were we?

New Hampshire? We were. No? No, not New Hampshire. No. Yes, no. We were in New Hampshire, then we were in North Carolina, New Jersey last week.

And it was a new state. So New Jersey, let's go clear across the country. Terrific. All the way out to Washington State. Oh, boy. It's been a while, and it's always fun more in the Pacific Northwest's always fun when we're in the Pacific Northwest. The special kind of weird in the Pacific Northwest.

It really breeds some interesting facts for murder. Some strange stuff going on out there, let me tell you here. This is Moses Lake, Washington, which I've never heard of before. It is in central Washington, kind of dead center. What goes on in there? I don't know. You don't hear anything about that in Washington. No.

You hear about the coast. Yeah. And then. The border. The border. And then what's that other town on the other side I don't know. You don't hear anything about that in Washington. You hear about the coast. Yeah. And then the border. And then what's that other town on the other side? Spokane. That one? You hear it exists, but you don't hear anything actually about it other than it's close to Idaho.

Tacoma? That's near Seattle. That's what I'm saying. Everywhere you think of wet and foresty, this isn't like that. This is like a desert-y, arid place. It's weird. Two hours and 50 minutes to Seattle. So almost three hours, an hour and 40 minutes to Spokane to the east.

And then four hours to Shelton, Washington, which was episode 152. Yeah. January 1st, 2020. I believe that was the Scarlet Horror Beast episode. It's possible. I believe so. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's Scar wild beast and uh and then the oh the the job corps murders were there too right oregon yeah the job corps murders yeah specific yeah that's what i mean it's weird stuff up there this is in grant county area code 509 it's a big area 21 square miles there's some water in there lake and because it's lake moses obviously so piece of that uh history real quick uh not as rainy as you'd imagine oh washington state you just picture yeah constant rain here yeah just everything's got green shit basically it looks like ireland yeah yeah the worms those grass slugs they've got are so big it's weird yeah they're gross it's so wet it looks like goose shit weird yeah they're gross it's so wet it looks like goose shit but it's alive it's so wet yeah here not at all the average precipitation here

is under eight inches a year it's the it's the desert yeah it never rains uh it's evenly distributed throughout the year it's not like you know seasons it's not a wet time no but it's basically in the mid-summer sometimes you'll go a month, six weeks without rain. So in Seattle, that never happens, obviously. So it's, you know, that sort of thing here. Now, before the construction of the big dam on the Columbia River near here, and also they built the Moses Lake Army Air Base in 1942. Well, obviously. The Native Americans knew the area as Huopa, which meant willow.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Chief Moses was the leader of the tribe around here. There you go. And he was forced to negotiate with the settlers, quote unquote, who began to settle in the 1880s. pressure from the government he traded the columbia basin land for a reservation that stretched from the uh lake challenge challenge uh north to the u.s canada border so traded in all the river bay all this basin land here the columbia yeah i guess so um sounds like it so yeah that's kind of what happens here so the new settlers in honor of of this you know forced gesture they named it after him wow they

named it moses lake is that a gesture is that an honor or is that an insult that's what i mean i don't know what it is but it sucks if somebody stole your car from you and then called it the james mobile james right it's yeah i might be a little bit pissed off at that it's not happy about that we'll take take the James tonight. Big honor. Thanks, assholes. So the city was originally named Nepple after a town in Germany where one of the settlers had lived. The first settlers, first settlers had fisheries and farms and all that sort of thing.

They were exporting carp, carp, jackrabbits and fruit. Gross. That's that was what this place was that carp carp the bottom feeders don't even eat that i was gonna say i don't know what they're doing with carp i suppose it can i guess back then you eat whatever you can get it's not exporting jack rabbits do we want you don't i don't think you eat jack rabbits do you they're bigger i guess there's more meat i suppose they look gross though they be all sinewy and weird they're pretty athletic i don't know yeah they are fast i don't think i

want to eat no be like eating a tiny greyhound i don't want to eat that sounds disgusting right am i wrong here i don't want that so uh irrigation attempts failed and the settlers would leave they'd come try to irrigate didn't work and they'd take off so this this happened multiple times in this area the town was incorporated and named lake moses or moses lake in 1938 at that point there was 302 people here so nobody was here and then the air base came in and then they got they you know the army figured out how to pump water in because you know they're good at that right you know they want water they're getting water they'll get resources the military yeah whereas if you you know try to irrigate your farm it might not work so they ended up pumping off of here and then people started coming because now there's water yeah and so they started fishing there's a place to water sheep and cattle now all that sort of

shit and uh became a uh kind of a hub for this area of the central state, I guess. Evil Knievel lived here for a long time. Is that right? Which is a strange stat. I thought that was so weird I had to mention it. The stunt guy weirdo. The white trash Superman is what he is. Yes, and we will do a bonus episode on him for Crime and Sports

coming up very soon in the next couple months. So that's another Patreon thing you guys are going to want anybody that grew up wearing dukes of hazard t-shirts loved him he was fantastic so yeah he was a kids loved him in the 70s isn't that weird because he did crazy shit yeah they're like whoa i want to jump a canyon on a motorcycle i wouldn't but some kids were real excited about that jump 37 cars for no reason well the kids would be like i have a dirt bike yeah i can't jump 37 cars on it but maybe i could if i worked at it neither can evil can evil he never landed anything he always he always jumped him and then broke his body his main his main talent was survival

that was his talent because it was like it's not even his talent it's the doctor threw himself out of an airplane and landed it's like what a stunt no it wasn't a stunt it didn't work at all he just didn't die yeah that's why it's not tragic everything just stayed together he had all broken inside there what he was doing was a zero-sum game it was if i survive i did a good job that's it if i don't die i'm here i win it's like ups if you order a mirror and it's still all the pieces are in the box it's all still in there so we win we did it that's then that was his flaw but the public was cool with that it's essentially what he did as a hero everything inside is broken apart they'd show him in the hospital bed totally broken in a body cast just giving one thumb up like and they'd be like

see hey the only bone not broken it's the one that matters what's your next jump idea evil he's like i'm thinking about maybe as soon as they weld me back together the snake canyon's like what the fuck are you talking about you ever heard of the snake river it's i'm gonna jump it so uh i mean a case of pbr yeah so for some reason that this was a true this place was attractive to him for a long time uh bmw has a giant factory there i guess they make electric cars there there's a bunch of factories here actually of uh different companies conagra has a place here there's a some paper place also there's a bunch of that kind of shit low taxes for their industry i guess i suppose i have some reviews of the town obviously obviously and once again disclaimer on these we didn't write these these are other people wrote them

and i'm reading them to you i mean so when you complain complain to them not to me don't say you guys don't know we don't we're reading what other people said that's the point so it's shocking that somebody could go the reviews that they wrote. No. What? We didn't say if I wrote them, they'd be better. I'd make them even funnier because I, you know, it would have a lot to them. One star. This is all about the food.

This is one of those very focused ones. One star. There is no mall here. Well, God damn it. No national chains like Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Applebee's. That sounds like a blessing. That sounds great. No Olive Garden in town. Oh, damn damn it. No national chains like Olive Garden, Red Lobster, or Applebee's. That sounds like a blessing. That sounds great. No Olive Garden in town?

Oh, damn. Yeah. Jesus. And only two Taco Bells. Only two Taco Bells. How many do you need? How many Taco Bells do you need? When you hear the population, you're going to go, yeah, that's enough tacos for you.

That's how many you need. How much tacos? Two McDonald's. Yeah. Two Arby's. Okay. Two Arby's? What town has two arby's i get to you're telling me that arby's is selling at the same rate as tacos in this

fucking great point what a weird town i am shocked how i've never seen a line at that place no no one's there you need two of them why is this why are they still open and also and they have five subways. Good Lord. One might be in a gas station off the highway. I went over here. But still, five subways and three Starbucks. No Wendy's, no chicken places, except KFC that has the worst service. It's a chicken place.

But they have the worst service, according to this person. There is nowhere to shop but Walmart. This town supports 25,000 people, and we can't get none of these things here if you like mexican food this is the place to live because that is all we have here somebody's done with the rice and beans yeah they are they've had they've had their fill that is wild next one one star this town is very small racist and bigoted oh too much once again not from us not a judgment this is a person saying they could be right they could be completely wrong we have no idea just read someone else's words out loud that's it uh i mean it's literally a review that's not ours uh too much crime a huge drug problem a lot of teen pregnancy it just sounds like utopia over

there this is awful crime drugs and pregnant teenagers this is terrible they're racist they're drug drug addicts and they're fucking breeding and they're knocked up when they're very young the schools are too crowded the jobs don't pay well even with a degree people are not friendly the nearest airport is hours away the city politics are crooked and do not allow growth due to quote old money the medical care is horrible and everyone ends up in spokane or seattle there is no decent shopping unless you want to go quote downtown and pay up the ass for subpar crap and a condescending attitude jesus pay up the ass pay up the ass isn't it pay up the ass. Pay up the ass for a condom. Isn't it pay out the ass? No, I guess not.

It's not there. Right up the ass in this town. In this town, that's the complaint. Normally, you pay out the ass. This town, you have to pay up the ass. It's much more difficult. I understand why they're complaining. I'd give it one star, too.

I only had $20, so I had to pay up the ass. I had to pay it right up the ass, man. So I paid for the rest of it. Good Lord. Here's another one. One star. This one had a lot of one star reviews, this town. A lot of one and two stars.

Poor and terrible. Tiny little town overrun with crazy religious racist weirdos who seem to be passing around the same half-past brain. Probably half-assed is what they mean. It's a crapshoot on who has it at the moment. Oh, okay. They're trying to make a joke. This is great.

There's a bunch of dummies. I don't know who's carrying the brain. Apparently so. Not much for jobs. Everywhere here pays minimum wage, pays minimum regardless of the position. Okay, the CEO, sorry, sir. You're making $10.50 an hour.

We're sorry, ma'am we we can't we can't possibly provide you health insurance uh the business around business around here have the worst customer service ever well that's two for bad customer service their position is well where else you gonna go i mean there's two taco bells i'll go to the other one i'll go to the other arby's they make a better beef and cheddar anyway there are five subways sir the drug the drugs and gangs are equal to that of an actual city not this little porn dunk i think they mean poe dunk yeah porn dunk 16 square mile dust ball of a town jesus porn dunk that'd be a better town probably yeah sounds hot. Porn dunk Washington.

You're like, whoa, what goes on there? That's interesting. Jesus Christ. Let's see. Here's two stars. They liked it better. I've saved the positive for last year. A lot of petty crime and gang activity for being a small town.

Also, this area has some real issues with methamphetamine production and use. Oh, boy. Schools are subpar and overcrowded. That's two for that. And aside from outdoor activities, there's very little to do without driving two hours. On the upside, there are a lot of sunny days, tons of lakes, and cost of living is pretty low for Washington State. Traffic is good as well. Welcome to about 85% of America.

Yeah, you just described America, Chief. That's everything. That's pretty much everywhere. Yeah, and then there's another one that's two stars that they like it also. And they say there's a lot of homeless people and drugs in this town. And they would not recommend walking outside at night or walking alone through the town. You know, I'm starting to feel in terms of the theme of these reviews is that everybody, James, every person on uh wants 75 degrees and a beach and if it doesn't have it and all the fast oh your reviews are going to suffer and every fast food restaurant

more than two also at least three olive gardens at least three are you kidding me so this place went from having 300 people in 1940 to over 11 000 in 1960 oh so it just blew up once they got water yes that's how that worked right now 22 038 people and two arby's thank you u.s army 11 11 000 people per arby's that's that's way too many arby's think about phoenix there's like four million people yeah how many arby's would that have to be if it's 11 000 people per arby's i'll bet there's 11 in phoenix we'd have hundreds of arby's here right on that rate well i want the math done on we've got like half a million per arby's here yeah that's what i mean find out the number of arby's as opposed to the population in the phoenix metropolitan area they are killing it they're the

most arby's per capita possibly on earth right here, I think maybe. It's possible. I swear to God. 22,038 people, up 96% and probably a whole Arby's since 1990. Female population is way higher than male here. It's like 54% all out of whack, which is weird for a population that high. A lot of kids under four, a lot of people over 85 oh so either the 85 year olds are very frisky or something else is happening right around 81 that's when

they start pumping them that's when you get virile again it's like going to thank you by acro a dead body has rigor and then they calm down and then there's a second rigor right that's how that works i think that's what that is you're very sterile or you're very virile and then you go and you have an impotency and then you're back and it's back it's back again if you make it to 80 boom right around 80 rock hard i'm just virile yeah just oh boy sperm count through the roof so race of this town uh it's about 60 white which is right about the national average that's like 61 and a half uh 1.5 black though that's well under the national average 2.1 asian which is low for washington state yeah and low for the national average too as a matter of fact uh one percent

american which is actually high yeah for the uh u.s and uh 33.3 percent hispanic so yeah it's a lot a lot going on there um terms of diversity, I guess. Well, not really. It's pretty much just white or Mexican. It's like anywhere in the West. Except not on the very coast. Anywhere west of, say, Oklahoma. Yeah, pretty much.

40.8% of the people here are religious. So that's less than the 50-50 norm. And nothing, 17% Catholic, but you got a third are hispanic so that's going to make up for that there everybody else is pretty mixed evenly nine percent uh lds i was just gonna say there's probably a lot of mormon you're gonna get that and uh 0.0 percent jewish though okay not not having that at all so no having a gila this week it's too close to utah they're not interested there i guess so uh i think the jewish people might not be interested in living there yeah so that's the way i meant it and it came out wrong so anyway uh by unemployment rate here is high

it's about double the national average for what it was you know in the beginning of the year anyway um the household income though is decent here it's the rest of the country, $57,500. Here, it's almost $50,000, $49,800. So pretty close to the national average, not terrible. A lot of manufacturing jobs. But I saw in a lot of the reviews, they said the jobs come and go. Really? Seasonal? Not seasonal, but the manufacturing plants will hire a bunch of people for certain projects and then lay a bunch of them off and then bring them back.

So it's not a real steady thing where you just have a job and you're going to work in this plant for 30 years. Almost gig economy for production. Kind of. And sometimes they'll close for a while, open back up for whatever. So cost of living, 100 is average. Here it is, 85. Not that bad. Housing's an 84. So, I mean, 100 is average. Here it is 85. Not that bad.

Housing's an 84. So, I mean, pretty, you know, not bad. Median home cost, $193,400. Okay. Affordable. A lot of houses between 100 and 200,000. And if we've convinced you. I don't know how.

I don't know how, but you need to be here. You need to get, you know why? Yeah. No waiting at Arby's that's just wide open you want the highest arby's per capita in the united states we have for you the moses lake washington real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here goes for 793 dollars which is well below the national average. That's usually like $1,200 nationally, so that's not bad.

I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,296-square-foot house. It's not great. I'm going to be honest with you. It needs some work. You could live there, but the inside's pretty, the floors are weird. It's not great, but it's fine. $154,900. so if you needed that to get in there that's you know your your lowest point of entry but that's not like a trailer basically

i found some of those two found a four bedroom two bath 2784 square foot house sounds good that's big it's weird yeah it is fucking green i bet it was added on a lot right probably the weird what it's green and i'm not talking like a forest green or like a kelly green it's like a crayola green no it's like a weird like a like a light green yeah like a split pea soup green it's yeah kind of it's a very odd green not nice 259 900 bucks though for that and a couple of gallons of paint yeah that's and then i found four bedroom three bath 3868 square foot very nice big outdoor brick oven thing in the back which is a nice patio probably a pizza oven i think it is that's the new thing people are doing i know it's cool oh boy you could see it from the side i couldn't tell what it was uh but over an

acre of land very nice nine hundred sixty seven thousand dollars though so you're paying for it if you want to get something half four thousand square feet though it's a big house yeah it's a big house yeah it's not it's a really nice house it's kind of kind of farty on the inside a million dollars million dollars you're gonna want to redo the kitchen so it's it's bad things to do here. There's not a lot going on here. Here's one. This is the, what is this? The Moses Lake Spring Festival.

Hell yeah. They love this shit. Bringing on the fun in Moses Lake, it says on here. Come join one of Moses Lake's biggest, most spectacular event of the year. Come on, guys. Events. Put the S on there. The Moses Lake Spring Festival. There is always something to see or do watch the three-on-three basketball tournament

no that's what i want to watch i want to watch the fucking people who live in rural washington play three-on-three basketball with each other probably a lot of talent there i imagine i need the night shift of taco bell playing the night shift of arby's yeah it's no thank you oh man it's uh it's the the beef and cheddars are playing the chalupas this is amazing i can't wait to watch the gorditas see if the cold cut combo can fucking defend its title it's gonna be awesome can't wait oh the five for five roast beefs are playing the that is the most disgusting offer on earth that's not good at all i don't want any of that i don't want any of that free admission free live music let the kids play at the carnival and uh watch the spring fest lip sync competition oh boy lip sync competition

how is that what talent what fuck you i guess to perform but either way you're lip-syncing if two people both know the words to the songs i mean i think it's tie you both got all the words right yay good job what the fuck is that oh that's it's like having it's like having an air guitar competition but worse it's so stupid um or just walk around and see it all you gotta take all the the tournament the lip syncing out of the what you don't want to miss a minute of this oh my god how dumb oh my god they gotta really dig deeper than this this is all just garbage that's yeah it's free so it's a free admission what do you have and free parking i'm gonna charge you for that don't forget to grab some great food and drink. Oh, boy. And they also have the, oh, my God, the Spring Festival Kitty Parade, which sounds just gross.

Yeah. After we do this show for 200 episodes, I just picture some murderous pedophile on the side going, which one am I picking out for later? I picture a road lined with dudes in lawn chairs tugging as they just parade. Picture fucking Slingblades staring going, I want me that one in the third row. What's your name? What's your name, sweetheart? No.

Disgusting. Then there's the Freedom Fest, which scared me a little too. You never know. But it's a 4th of July thing, though. So it's like, okay, well that makes sense. How did the word freedom become so fucking insulting? I don't know.

It's so weird. How did that become specific to like, people are going to be armed at that particular event? I hate that word now. Like heavily, not even a little bit. There's a food truck rodeo. I hope that means it's just food trucks. I hope they're not competing in some sort of movement.

If you can get your lasso around the smokestack of that diesel, it's yours then. And it's all you can eat if you can lasso up the smokestack. Farmer's Market, Food Truck Rodeo, Cruising Car and Bike Show, Vendor Market, Beer and Wine Garden. Then the live music starts. Oh, yeah. At 5.30 p.m. when all the good music starts oh yeah at 5 30 p.m when all the good music starts with cruise control okay coming on it's opening oh baby and then from 8 to 10 closing out the show the sonic funk orchestra oh boy closing everything out with a big fireworks

display oh baby ah sounds amazing crime rate in this town uh property almost double yeah so they weren't lying in the reviews of a lot of shit being stolen and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is pretty much right at double really so yeah it's there's some shit going on what is happening i think it's meth yeah i think this sounds just the area you'd look at i'm not we don't know but i'd look at this area and go like oh there's probably if you drove by here you go i bet there's meth in there. Okay.

Seems like Kingman to me. Yeah. Seems like Kingman, Washington. Okay. Comparing it to an Arizona town. James, I drove by Whitman the other day because we were talking about it in the reviews of the bonus show. I drove by, there was a house that was boarded up that said not for sale. Gee, thanks.

It said not for sale, we live here. Oh my God. Not abandoned. That's what that says not for sale we no squatting boarded up what the fuck is happening america that's whitman everybody that's that's that's arizona right there that tells you what's happening whitman it's all drugs and that's probably what's happening in this town it's gotta be right similar situation i guess well i mean i'm sure there's a nice part i don't fucking sure that said let's talk about a murder okay i can't wait let's do this um we'll go back in time a little bit here let's go back let's go back to october 15th 1986 1986 that's a it's a good year. I think so. Not for vehicles.

No, bad for vehicles, music. You know, the 80s sucked. I was going to say, what is it a good year for except that the Giants won the Super Bowl, which is really cool. Outside of that, I can't think of another good thing that happened in 86. There was no war happening yet. I mean, it didn't kick off for a few more years. So it was a good peaceful time.

You know what? In peaceful times. I mean, it was still Cold War, though. Still Russia and all that shit. In peaceful times, we tend to get real relaxed with everything oh we do we chill right out yeah i had those cool creative those cool claymation videos which came out remember that no like peter gabriel had that song yeah sledgehammer yeah the land of confusion or whatever was that phil collins that's phil collins one of the two they each had they both had did they both do it i don't know they were

both in genesis that's all i know doesn't matter 86 sucked let's talk about hammer was a good video it was interesting so october 15th 1986 okay uh there is a young man a high school student named robert niverson yeah um and uh on this particular day he heads up to the grant county sheriff's office and walks in he's got something interesting to tell them that they probably don't hear every day yeah walks in and says hi i'm robert um there's a body buried by moses lake buried buried i know about a body that's buried um basically walked in and said want to see a dead body yeah officer i just saw a great movie uh yeah and so he um they were like are you it's a kid it's not so they were kind of like bullshit you know they first they they go

through it because they don't believe him at first honestly qualify this and so he says no i know where it is i've been heard where it was i'll take you there like i know exactly where somebody told me it was so if you want to go check it out come with me police say fine somebody go with this fucking kid and go look they look and uh oh boy what do they find uh they find in a very very shallow grave near the lake and some bushes they find the body of a young woman and they can't tell the age appears to be somewhere between, say, 16 and 24, somewhere in that area. Young lady. And she has been quite through the ringer. There's some serious decomposition happening.

And from what they can tell right away, she's definitely been beaten and stabbed a lot. Yeah. Like a lot. They dug up the whole thing. This is a particularly brutal uh thing that they have seen that they found here and uh yeah so they find this body and uh they don't know who the hell it is though that's the only thing it's not really identifiable except through uh this person isn't except through dental records okay so um they're gonna try and figure

out who that is while they're doing that let's go back a little bit yeah time to the 70s talk about some people no just earlier in 86 let's talk about some people here it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of

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The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. While they're doing that, that is October of 86. Keep that in mind. So let's talk about a young lady named, oh, look at this, her name. I forgot about this. At the time, I was so excited. Now I forgot. No, it's E-Margo. Okay. Good guess. E-Margo.

Okay. But they call her kind of like iCarly, I guess, except E-Margo. Yeah. But they call her Margo. Okay. Well, yeah. But her official name is E-Margo, I guess. E-Margo Ann Wistman.

Mm. W-I.H.S. Just your name with a fucking T stuck in there. Damn it. W.H.I.S.T. Yeah, that's it. Wistman McKee. Wistman is her. She hated it, too.

So she hyphenated. No, no. Wistman. Wistman is her last name. Her name is Margo and Wistman. But even though she's only 18, her married name is McKee. So she's just added the McKee on. She goes by Margo McKee.

She hung on to the Wistman legally? No, no. She goes by Margo McKee, but that's her. She was originally a Margo Ann Wistman. And now she's Margo McKee. Got it. So by 1986, she's Margo McKee,

maiden name Wistman. Lucky woman couldn't change it. There you go. Here she is right here. Okay. You can see her. It's a newspaper picture, so you can see there she is. She looks young.

Yeah, that's like a high school senior picture there, obviously. So she's got like a dress on. You could tell, yeah, some 86 hair going on. Now, Margo, all through high school, all through her life here, she a kind of a tragic she's got a tragic thing here uh her parents are dead oh my god so that's a rough thing she has a she has a family that raises her and did they go uh when she was 12 fuck so not good one died when she was 12 another died uh another time separate incidents separate incidents yeah one had cancer i think she's she's had it tough but through it all she has been i mean you can see her she looks pretty straight laced you know what i mean she's

like uh she's a straight a student church going girl very much like you know into the family and tragedy like that will make kids go one of two ways too that that's all happened yeah they'll either go crazy yeah and go out and find all the meth they can. Or you lace up your shoes and do the right thing. Exactly. Or you might go the complete opposite, trying to. And also, too, if you have new parents like that, you're probably trying to please them because you don't want them to go away. Because in your fucked up psychology kid brain, you think something you did made your parents

die. Because that's what everybody thinks. Your parents get divorced. I must have fucking did that. Or at minimum, it just you that uh parents are certainly temporary exactly at the least you know i mean whether or not they die or just you never know yeah they don't necessarily stick around so be nice and hopefully they'll stay around yes i think that's maybe her psychology i'm not positive obviously but yeah church going straight a student she goes to moses lake high and she is uh her main goal in life

is to do really well in school get good grades and get the fuck out of lake moses lake that is her goal i am going to get out of here go to college somewhere else and move away from the shithole is the way she thinks of life good for her so that's yeah it's no matter where you're from if it's a nice even if it's from a nice place you want to leave there for a while you should leave you should see something right and then figure out where you want to be so you can't just say this is the best place ever and you've never been anywhere else right because you don't know you have no clue you have no clue it might be the best place you might leave and then go i'm gonna move back there somewhere someday that was the best place ever who knows

but you should at least leave and find out if you leave and back there somewhere someday that was the best place ever who knows but you should at least leave and find out if you leave and you find somewhere else and you realize that's not better then yeah at least you know that this place is not the worst place exactly at least you know now thank you so um yeah she wanted to she lived in moses lake her whole life and she just wanted out it's not even like she hated it she just wanted to leave it's a small area kind of by itself here and sure if you're a kid it's got to feel claustrophobic after a while so i would understand so um there's not a lot for kids to do here either just in the 80s we're talking there's about 10 000 people here so i mean they they might have only had one arby's jimmy that's

how that's how tragic this could have been. It's very difficult times. I mean, probably two Taco Bell still, but one Arby's, I mean, not a lot to do. And they run out of beef and cheddars. They're going to run out of beef and cheddars if you only have one Arby's with 10,000 people. They're going to bum rush the place, obviously. Five for five? Out of 10,000 people, how many people could you expect to want Arby's on a daily basis? I guess if you bet on 100 people eating there an entire day from open to close. Maybe they have one right by a factory, too, for lunch.

Would that even pay the bills? That's what I mean. I don't know. Arby's has a lot of lights on. That sign's bright. There's a lot of shit going on. It probably takes a lot of electricity. Yeah, people running around back there with stupid hats on. There's got to be something going on. It takes a lot of electricity. Yeah. People running around back there with stupid hats on.

There's got to be something going on. Microwave for your quote unquote meat. Whatever that slurry. There's no way they make that on a grill, right? That compressed slurry is. However it warms. Then I'm making it on a grill, right? I assume in a bag and water.

My God. Not even like a sous vide. Just a warmish water. Stick it in there. Yeah. Warm it. That's what they do at Taco Bell. Really? It vide just a warmish water get in there yeah warm that's what they do at taco bell really it's in a bag and water it's in a bag and then you put it in the thing and in the tin that's in water it's gross yeah it's a heated thing and yeah yeah that's vile they have just big frozen bags you know what that's how places do do sauces too because you just stick

it in the in the uh stainless pan yeah that's in water and it heats it all day disgusting the same water it holds it granted it's not touching the water but that's still gross it's still gross so not a lot of shit to do uh one of the teachers from moses lake high at this point she said quote take somebody who doesn't like school and they're kind of lost yeah there's nothing else to do with school so if you yeah if you're not into school and they're kind of lost yeah there's nothing else to do with school right so if you yeah if you're not into school and school activities and grades yeah you go home and you sit there and there ain't shit to do this is pre-internet pre-everything this is once a year you get a carnival yeah that's i mean yeah you get to go to the spring festival and watch the kiddie parade if you're a pervert from the cruise control and yeah that's it uh so there are some people around here unlike uh margo

who does like school and she she does she just wants to do everything she can to get out of here and she she sees the path of how to do that so she's going with it there are a couple of people here who don't like school and we'll say and uh one's a year older than her and one's about two years older than her a couple of young guys from town who are not real into school. I get it. They're more of the burnout variety. And we'll talk about here. These two are checking.

Yeah. I mean, you could see these two guys and they look like they share a Trans Am. Don't they? Right. Like a like a beat up T-top Trans Am that they. Does that one have that shitty check check mustache? Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, is that a mustache on his face?

I think he's got a real like shitty like beard. Real Gomez Adams. Yeah. And then. It's a bad mustache. This dude's blonde as balls. Boy oh boy is he. You can't even see his hair.

It looks like a ghost. Like there's like an aura thing around him. Like his face. A flash. If you just showed his face and asked somebody guess his hair color you just go oh blonde obviously white i don't know jesus is that rick flair so uh this is steven c well chel w-h-e-l-c-h-e-l steven c well chel he's born in 1966 he's 19 almost 20 at this point in time he is dark hair stupid sm smirk, and shitty beard.

That's a shitty beard guy. And then Jerry McKee, he's about two years older. He's about 21 at this point. He is this idiot here with the blonde hair and the Ric Flair hair. What's his last name? McKee. M-C-K-E-E. Okay.

McKee. So Jerry McKee, Stephen Welchel. Yeah.chell yeah so okay now they are high school dropouts they're from this area and they're the exact person the teacher was talking about if you don't like school there's nothing else to do except drop out and sit in your fucking trailer and get into drugs or get into whatever because honestly there isn't it isn't even like you could go get a bunch of jobs at that point there isn't really anywhere to work here at this point except at the new arby's that just opened up second location thank god they're about to need sandwich artists they're gonna need some hope there's like what did they say 17 r subways and 14 starbucks something i

don't remember a lot of them there was five it was outnumbering everything else five yeah 20 that's amazing that is that is 22 000 people that's that's wild that's like 4 500 people per per subway that's nuts that's awesome it's so much for think about how many subways there'd be in phoenix i need the math of the subway and rb content of phoenix someone it was the number one store uh fast food in the country for a while so i'll bet that i'll bet in phoenix someone it was the number one store uh fast food in the country for a while so i'll bet that i'll bet in phoenix i'll bet there's 50 i'll bet there is there's more than that probably you think so yeah maybe there is we knew a guy who owned like 20 did you yeah we did do i know him yes i don't wait yeah we do he gave us a gift one time okay that guy i don't

remember i have a it's like a crystal, never mind. Is that a crystal subway? It's a crystal subway sandwich. Yes, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. It's a crystal tuna sandwich. Yeah. Dude would pull up in his fucking Rolls Royce.

Yeah. Yeah. And then do comedy. And you're like, why are you doing this? To hang out. He just wanted to hang out. That's right. He just wanted to hang with us.

Yeah. He wanted to hang out with us. He wanted to hang with open micers. He just liked us. And the people he thought was funny he would give us awards yeah we're just awards from him we were in a contest we lost but don't you worry because he brought awards he gave us awards but not everybody only people he thought were funny he gave us i remember i have a crystal microphone you have one too sitting on the desk my desk. I have one in the back. It's a crystal microphone. I have a beautiful microphone. That's amazing.

Thanks for the laughs. Rupinder. That's probably $75. Yeah. This is crazy. I barely know. This costs 10 cash. What a nice man.

Thank you. You could do that, or you could stand up and applaud one of the two. Either or. Good set. That would have sufficed. That would have been fine. Thanks, bro. You pound out of it.

Thank you. Right on. that would have sufficed that would have been fine thanks bro you pound out of it thank you right on so these fucking idiots here uh their high school dropouts who hang around moses lake and frequently hang out with and talk to the kids at the high school really they're those kids they have nothing else to do so basically they're yeah they're matthew mcconaughey in days and confused Stay the same age. Hey, man, stay the same age. That's what they do. They go to the high school parties.

They go to the high school and hang out in the parking lot and shit, even though they're dropouts. And now they're even too old to be in high school. Right. But they were dropouts to begin with. You're not even reliving glory days. You're reliving the worst days. Yeah. It's not like they dropped out at 16 and they're 17 and they're

going to hang out it's like well i should be here all my friends from my year are here so whatever dropped out when i was 16 i'm still here when i'm in my 20s yeah the kids that were freshmen when you dropped out are now seniors we go there hang out with them what's going on or long gone or long gone hopefully for their whatever so this is pathetic it's a pathetic pairing and you can see them and that's exactly what they look like it's rare that people look are exactly what they look like and these two that's it they nail it perfectly so uh another guy who uh who they hang out with this dipshit is named jeffrey flotta or flota f-l-o-t-a so uh i don't know flotta would probably be two t's so flota maybe so i'm gonna call him flota

jeffrey flota yeah he goes to the town's alternative high school because of his learning difficulties okay um so i don't know what his learning difficulties are but he goes to the you know the you know the alternative high school yeah you know that one yeah that the one that when your friend got kicked out of school they i went there yeah instead and he had to go there and yeah everybody knows that they did the family guy with it was all italian kids that was my favorite thing did you see that no fucking hilarious genius chris gets sent there like it's just all italian kids when he shows up there's the like the principal outside and he's like i'm chris and he goes uh he goes like right this way and they go in this door and it's the copacabana Goodfellas thing.

And they go through the restaurant. And he waves his finger, and the guy comes with a desk with a chair on it and fucking puts it down in front in a notebook and pen. And he goes, it's from Mr. Tony right over here. Thank you. All the kids are Italian. It's so hilarious. They go, hey, everybody, it's 930. We better start thinking about lunch.

So they bring out this big table and a tablecloth and all these big bowls coming out he goes i got a nice piccata thing going on with this and that i love when they make fun of i love it i love when somebody makes fun of italians when it's funny and accurate when it's accurate when it's good and when it's funny i don't care rip us for all the i love it it's my favorite thing in the world the alternative school here was me it was just a bunch of people that they heard no no it was all my friends they heard you could graduate early yeah they didn't realize that there's a negative connotation to what you're doing they go when you're 16 and they would fucking graduate next year yeah oh great good for you that's wonderful and then that kid went he worked in the job corps and then when that failed he went to the navy i remember that i

remember that and then he failed in that that's see well yeah i think he's just gonna fail yeah that's that's comes from his core has nothing to do with the with the school or the navy or anything else he would fail no matter where you put him anywhere that's the easiest route that's what most of the kids that went there went there for some people are failures so it's the way it works this happens there's nothing we can do so uh margo back to margo so you have those three idiots and then margo's a completely different case obviously than them just seems like a complete the pads are way they should never know each other they They shouldn't even cross. Exactly. She should see them and go,

ugh, I bet they're going to Arby's. Just gross. So Margo turns 18 years old this year, and when she does, she inherits $18,000. Apparently, both of her parents died of cancer within a year of each other, which is insane.

What the fuck kind of luck is that? It's got to be environmental, right? That's not just... What are the odds? Do they live on the second floor of a fucking power plant or something? Like a high-tension line center? Do they live in the pillbox in the middle of it? Like, what?

How would both of them? What is going on? And they're 12? They had to be relatively young right i mean the odds of that are i would watch out if she's gonna have i'd be getting something i'd be getting checked over constantly yeah christ at minimum i'd be calling aaron brockovich something yeah there's something going on here so uh the sterlings are the family that take in margo when she was 12 and they promised margo's mother that they would raise her

just like they would raise their own child and they take her in which margo very lucky that she has somebody thank goodness in a stable home that's willing to take her in and you know be a parent at 12 to a kid who's broke i mean you're you'd be broken if both your parents died at 12 of cancer you had to watch your parents wither away at 12 right that's cancer cancer rarely uh you get diagnosed and then it's like over in two days yeah it's not a massive heart attack which you know that's like shocking but it's you didn't watch it and that's brutal so the worst yeah so they said they do that uh this is uh the uh she says the one parent before her mother died she told margo or i told margo i i was going to be her mother from now on for a while she was

calling us both mom so her mom that died and then the new mom here uh now in her junior year margo heard um an army recruiter came to the school and she heard that speech and so that summer she signed up for the delayed entry program where they can sign people up before they're even of age to fucking sign up for anything to go in when they're sign people up before they're even of age to fucking sign up for anything to go in when they're of age it's like a letter of commitment i hate that yeah it's a promise ring for the military before you get smart and realize this is a tough gig it's a tough gig and it's dangerous yeah you're like oh that sounds fun at 17 you're a little more impressionable than 18 you are yeah you've got some freedom and you realize oh hey

this is dangerous i don't might want might i might not be able to do that you know what i mean i might not be able to pull that off it's a hard job not everybody can do that a year ago yeah not everybody can do that it's difficult so uh this she promises to join the service when she graduates from high school so in the spring of 1986 the uh um mrs sterling her foster mother yeah or her new mom i guess here wow this is rough had a kidney removed oh no so can you imagine that she had to be like freaking out margo like oh jesus now this one's sick too she's in the hospital having a kidney removed so when she gets out of the hospital from her kidney removal surgery, she realizes that Margo had moved out while she was in the hospital, which is really weird.

She didn't say anything completely out of character behavior. Yeah, just over the rainbow. Weird. So she's shocked. Mrs. Sterling says she talked about getting her own apartment before. We knew she wanted to see if she could do it on her own but she just didn't tell them right or like you know hey i'm gonna move out and you know whatever she just was gone and she just got her inheritance so maybe she wants to have her own apartment and

you know that makes sense i guess at that point but it's weird to do that out of the blue is what it was here so that's about mid-march 86 from there uh margo moves into a small apartment with a student from another student from moses lake high so she gets a little apartment little roommate you know whatever at that at that point um just jesus christ the other girl had a car but her so that was the deal was like i have an apartment you have a car. You can take me places. But she was still in high school, this girl. So after a couple weeks, her parents came and got her and made her come home. Made her go back?

Yeah. She can't. Usually when you're a junior or junior in high school, your parents don't let you get an apartment. Yeah. Unless it's a really tough situation elsewhere. Unless that's the better solution. Exactly. Yeah. Normally they're like, get your ass home.

What are you talking about? Do you live with her? Get back to to your room you don't even do your own laundry yet go back to your room yeah yeah you don't know how to make macaroni and cheese what are you gonna do here call you in dinner yeah go back to bed fucking get out of here yeah so um one of the first nights at the new apartment margo uh they have some people over um you know just some friends because they're teenagers that's why they have an apartment and she meets jerry mckee oh boy our uh blonde haired yeah fell up there the dropout loser who's 21 and hangs out in high school parking lots mr blonde with high school girls with his stupid blonde hair yeah so yeah she meets mckee uh he was on his way to a party uh margo didn't want to go to the party

at all uh with them they offered everybody go to the party margo's not a real party girl so she didn't want to go to the party but mckee ended up hanging out there with her and talking to her all evening okay so they got to know each other all evening so he was like i'm not going to the party either i'm hanging with you i'm talking to this girl yeah i go to parties to meet girls right i'm already here already met a girl what the hell am i gonna go to the party for sand and beach man that's what i mean exactly what are we doing so there's the girl they end up talking all evening and this is this is the type of guy that you wouldn't want margo to hang if you're like margo's parents you'd go don't talk to that guy right he's a scumbag he's whale he's three years older than you which is

a big three years senior in high school you know just after your senior year in high school and 21 year old scumbag right are way different levels of uh your maturity and yeah goals aside interests are already all askew exactly Exactly. You're after different things at that point. So that's an interesting thing here. She turns 18 on April 4th. That's when she gets her money. So that's when this all kind of is going on here. And on that day,

this is now granted, she met Jerry McKee a week ago. Right. On that day, they decide to get married. What the fuck is happening? She's a silver-tongued devil. Imagine the game on this guy. Yeah. He's a dirtbag.

Right. He's got nothing going for him whatsoever. Milky. He's not even good-looking. No. You saw him. He's a terrible-looking man. Right.

He looks like if Eminem had a mullet. It's not good. Like a puffy-haired mullet. It's not a good look for a man and somehow more blonde and blonder yeah that's a but like that looks like it's natural too it's creepy shit so that and he's gonna wow he sweet talks an 18 year old girl who's actually has her shit together is on a path to do better things in life and all this type of shit she wants to go to the army so she can get money for college right either way she's out of moses lake yeah instead of that she wants to marry

a loser who's never going anywhere ever ever no no it's very strange unless his friend can give him a ride unless hey man you got like a ride oh then i'll be stranded shit no luggage but you can see the the look on a 21 year old's face when he hears the the words eighteen thousand dollars cash there you go big deal let's say 18 year old loser dropout burnout yeah he hears 18 year old chick own apartment got a bunch of cash in the bank that's a lot of money to somebody yeah i spent an 86 to a teenager right that's a lot of fucking i had a roommate who told me he had 41 000 in a roth ira in 2003 ish yeah i was blown away oh my god that is the most money i'm can i look at it yeah show me the

show me the statement bullshit i don't believe you yeah i was stunned by that amount of money that's what i mean and so i was making that every year at my job but but i didn't get to see it at once yeah you weren't saving it. He just has that. I've got to work all year to get that. December 31st. You had none of it left. So it's the other difference.

It was like November. It came and went. Yeah. So they decide to get married, which is absolutely crazy. It's crazy. It doesn't make sense. Imagine if you're these foster parents, you've raised her so well and you've,

you're, you're hopeful for her life. And you're like, no, it's all God. Now you're these foster parents you've raised her so well and you've you're hopeful for her life and you're like no it's all gone now you're marrying a loser god damn it so she buys herself a car around that point which she needs a car of course you gotta have a car she's got some money she buys a car and then uh like sometime in here over the summer with two of mckee's friends They drive down to Reno to Nevada party. That's the thing. Yeah. Well, if you're from that area, Reno is the spot.

That's their Vegas. Think about it. Laughlin's too far. Think about that's their Vegas. Boy, oh, boy. We're going to Reno. Wow. Oh, boy.

So they go along. A bunch of the friends come along. And not only do they go to Reno, but then they decide why not extend this vacation? This is so much fun. Who do you think's paying for all this? By the way, everybody's everything that goes fast, man. Oh baby.

It goes fast. Especially when you head from Reno, which is gambling town to Disneyland to see Disneyland. Yay. That's a $2,500 two a 2500 two days and expensive shot in the 80s in the 80s it was a little better this is before they've acquired every license for everything and raise the prices like crazy so everything you do in there costs money except for ride something it's like you could probably probably 20 bucks a person at this point to get in or something but still that's 100 bucks right done like that right now everybody's getting ears oh fuck yeah they are they're all getting stupid ears yep and the one guy's ears you'll hear about

what probably what name was probably on them and you're gonna shit yourself welchell steven welchell it's not what he goes by what is that by the way call him i'm not gonna tell you for a minute i'm gonna wait you're gonna need to wait until an event happens and then you're gonna go oh my fucking god that's crazy so um yeah they go to disneyland and then you're going to go, oh, my fucking God. That's crazy. So, yeah, they go to Disneyland and then head on down to Tijuana as well. That's a long ride. They went from Washington all the way down the coast from Reno and then down to L.A. That's a lot of money. All the way down.

Yeah, absolutely. And fucking her car. I mean, you're putting all the way down there and back. That's 3,000 miles. By the time she came home because she's in her senior year of high school this is the end of her senior year right this is her last month of high school last two months tijuana was a nice trip because that was the least money she had to pay for anything for anything yeah she's like oh my god it's mad cheap

down there it is very cheap especially in the 80s everything oh god god that was the heyday of it i'm sure yeah imagine what her scumbag friends were doing down there awful things i spent 20 on all of us everybody got hand jobs everybody got including the donkey i got him one too because i was feeling good about myself so by the time she gets home she has been absent from school for a month. What? A month. This was a month she took off to do this. It's not even the summer. Reno, Disneyland, Tijuana. She's going on a run.

Yeah, most of her money is gone, too. Yeah. She spent over half of her inheritance. I'm sure. They went to the MGM. Oh, they also stopped in Vegas on the way back and went to the MGM and pissed some money away there. See the fucking lions.

You know, why not? So once she got back to moses lake high she tries to go back to school and they say oh no you're expelled right you didn't show up for a month remember that and so we just expelled you how were the lions yeah she hadn't known that 30 absences meant an automatic expulsion expulsion and that's what it is yeah because she's never absent she doesn't know she didn't know um she'd never had an attendance but that's what it is. Yeah, because she's never absent. She doesn't know. She didn't know. She'd never had an attendance. But that's exactly what they said. She'd never had an attendance.

She'd never missed more than two days, you know, being sick here or there. So she had no idea what the system was. No, she was just like, oh, but that's fine. I'm here now. And they were like, no, you're out. So she's like, fuck. Now, at this point, her army gig was over too because the army part of her thing was that she had to she had to graduate so that was part of this the thing that she signed

up for the program was once you graduate you go and so she didn't graduate so avoided the contract oh my god as well so her army gig was up and they didn't want her and uh she talked about i guess i got to go to summer school to get my diploma so I could maybe get back into my army program. And she fucked her entire life up with one month of screwing around, which really sucks because she was very studious her whole life. Had one like, you know, going to blow it out month in her entire life and it ruined everything. So that kind of sucks for, you know, someone who's young and we don't know what she was going through too with the whole kidney thing and her parents and all that kind of shit so very strange um it gets worse okay oh no that was in april all that happened and then two pink lines

by mid-may yep she finds out god damn it she is pregnant as well yep this could not get any worse it could not get any fucking worse how the fuck in a matter of two months her life went from one thing to a complete other thing and of course of course it's got to be the worst one of what's got to be her husband mckee's oh no obviously he's not sleeping with anybody else it's his baby he's the worst person you could ever he's you know he's the most fertile of the group because he's the biggest loser he is you know he's really put this woman in a pickle every everything that comes out of his dick is live yeah live rounds for sure live rounds man it's nothing it is all live rounds so dangerous real life scenarios dangerous oh boy i'm telling you you can't even let you no never mind so even put it on a sock that's right you'll absorb it

thank you you know where i was going all right so she's pregnant um uh i'm glad you went there and i didn't grow um they had been living with mckee's parents at that point because they moved out of the apartment yeah because she's pregnant so they've been living with his parents and then at this point they move in september they move into their own apartment which is a studio apartment this is how it happens yeah this is how the cycle starts this is it two mistakes that create little mistakes yeah awful choices that you have to make that put you in different situations that make you'd make other choices and you're always making the bad choice it seems like it's uh just oh yeah it's well it's a snowball once that choice happens and you have to make

a bad choice because you made that so it's bad and then at some point you just go who gives a shit and you just stay that way who gives a shit and you just stay that way who gives a shit and you park your dead car in your yard and leave it there that's what happens as your last tooth fuck it help me push this over there and that's it you don't even care anymore that's what's i feel you know mckee is trying to drag her into this black hole right of trash yeah but she is not no so it's like it's bad so um they end up living there they get their own one room apartment within a couple weeks um within a within a couple weeks i'm sorry i hate hearing that word one room apart it's not one bedroom no it's one room it is a studio one room yeah when you say studio

it makes it sound glamorous oh like it's like a loft it sounds like a picture like an easel the big oh it's like an art student no it's a fucking one room apartment you get out of bed stand up and you're at the stove and you're in the kitchen there you go make your breakfast everything in one room and then a toilet that's the whole place hopefully it's got a door so it's rough for two people to share that. That's rough. Okay. Cause it's like a hotel room. You know what I mean?

That's if you're in a hotel room, two people in it over time, you're like, we got to get the fuck out of here. Shit's building up. It's crazy in here. Well, they also have three other people end up moving in three more to have five people living in a one room apartment and a divorce suite and a divorce suite uh this is steven welchell oh my god this dirtbag moves in he moves in with well i mean why not have two runaway teenage girls a 15 year old and a 16 year old runaway teenage girls that feels illegal now

oh it's very illegal this whole thing is disgusting this whole if you knocked on the door you'd go i don't know what's happening, but everybody up against the wall. There's something wrong here. I don't know what's going on. They're too young. There's too many people. Is she pregnant?

What's happening? I don't know what's going on. It took her a month to go from life's on track going into the army when I graduate. To make money for college. Now housing runaways. Now it's, I guess the runaways can stay here. The runaways, 115, 116. Oh, my God.

We'll get into them in a second, too. One is Nancy Hughes, and that is Jeff Flota's girlfriend, of course, because she's only 16. So, obviously, you've got to go out with her. Oh, my God. And then Beth Massey is the other one, and she is 15 years old as well. She's her friend. And she is Welchel's girlfriend. Oh, my God. And then Beth Massey is the other one, and she is 15 years old as well. She's her friend. And she is Welchel's girlfriend. Oh, my.

Of course. What is happening? So that's what's happening here. They've invited another couple, Welchel, Dirtbag 19, Scumface Shitbeard. They invite him. Scumface Shitbeard. That's quite the SpongeBobgebob squarepants is mortal enemy shit face scum face scum face shit beard

shit face scum beard is pretty good too shit face scum beard shit face that's a fucking i want to see that that's a show i want to watch he lives in an avocado under your sink beard shit face in an avocado under your sink that sounds exactly like where he would live that sounds gross oh boy goes out with 15 year olds because he likes some pink okay we'll get out of that i couldn't i couldn't help it i'm sorry you don't like it oh scum face, shit face, scum beard. You can put them in any order. Scum face, shit beard, shit face, scum beard.

It doesn't matter. It all paints the same picture. It really works. It's really coloring with a turd. It's perfect. Shades of a turd, Jimmy. Shades. So this is a nightmare.

Okay. Five people, two of which are underage girls who are going out with overage guys. It's a disaster. It's illegal. Yeah. A lot. Those five live there. And Floda, he doesn't live there.

He lives with his parents. He knows better. He's there 90% of the time. He might go home, change some clothes, whatever. He comes right back. His girlfriend's there and all with his parents he knows better he's there 90 of the time he might go home change some clothes whatever he comes right back his girlfriend's there and all of his friends are there so there's essentially six people living in one room here this is by 12 yeah and this is starting to remind me of of a certain thing that we've talked about this is very starting to get manson-y yeah at this point yeah and it's going to get way more Mancini in a second because Welchel thinks he's the leader of something. And he thinks he's got ideas and he's got all sorts of shit cooking here.

He's the higher power. Well, that's what he says. He tells everybody. By the way, at this point, Margo hates this arrangement, by the way. She's not happy her and imagine you're pregnant forget it james this whole environment exists and she's footing the bill for this environment she's got to be pissed she's footing the bill but more than that she's like pregnant and not happy to have no room and no everything's dirty and she's used to she was

she's comes from a nice environment like her parents had a good home. Her family has a good home. She comes from where the toilet's clean and stuff. And here, imagine what the... Oh, boy. Imagine there's shit everywhere. Imagine how gross everything is. And she's getting bigger and the place seems to feel smaller. That's what I mean.

You'd have to be like, oh, my God, get these fucking people out of my goddamn house. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run

deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone

is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the generation y podcast on the

wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining wondery plus um she especially didn't like steven welchell at all at all um she thought he was a braggart everybody thought he was a braggart because he kind of was a braggart, as a matter of fact. He brags about several things we'll talk about in a second. Can't wait. Yeah, this is like white trash friends. That's what this is, though. There's six people in an apartment.

This is... Yeah, the song would be the same. Who told you life was gonna be this way it'd just be less upbeat yeah is this a pregnant girl in a corner crying while they show up credits it'd be a country song never told you life was gonna be this way down down down your job's a joke that is a goddamn country you broke your kid ain't got your dna that i had to ad-lib that one you know for a modern a more modern feel for it so we'll all be there for you my truck is always stuck in second gear take off and cruise all in second mckee's got to be

hoping that this doesn't all happen though because you know like he can't be happy about this situation we can't afford juice that's crazy that's kind of different uh actually um it's oh man now her parents by the way ross and winona sterling are just she's they they That's crazy. Well, that's kind of different, actually. Wow, man. Now, her parents, by the way, Ross and Winona Sterling, they said they're just... There's a Ross? Ross. Ross and Winona Sterling. Of course there's a Ross.

Of course there's a Ross. That's what I mean. And then her little brother Chandler just quoted as saying... They can't afford you. By the way, I've never watched a full episode i fucking despise the comedy on that i tried so hard it is just bad everybody loves it well because it was just on all the time it was syndicated and shit i just couldn't get into it and they picked three chicks that were fun to fun to look at as a teenager yeah so i did my best but no thanks no just didn't

like it it was campy and dumb and it wasn't even campy for the sake of like being fun about the campy like like twin peaks is campy and dumb and they incur it's not like a john waters movie yeah like that's great this is a friends is just fucking dumb friends i just don't like i don't know everybody's bad oh my god you don't like yes it's a bad show everybody likes friends i get it when you see it when you're a teenager, too. If you like something, it's nostalgic. And your friends like it, and then it brings you together because we all like it. Yes, we're not talking shit about your experience with Friends. It's just our experience with Friends.

That's all. It's not about you feeling good. It's about that it makes me feel bad. Feel bad. It feels very, very bad. So they're all living together. Like I said, they are um they are uh fighting a lot and uh the problem is well okay let's talk about welchell for a minute he claims um that

he is a high satanic priest at this point this is when he tells everyone listen i didn't want to tell everybody this but i'm a high satanic priest um i'm also in the mafia. I don't know if you knew that as well. So I'm a satanic mafioso. And just so everybody knows, in case you guys get lippy, I've killed 64 people in California. My mafia. Well, some were mafia, some Satan. When you serve two masters, it's really difficult to know who you killed for what after a while. It's like, was that for Mafia?

Who was that? Vinny? That sounds like Mafia, but I think I killed him for Satan. I'm not positive. How old is he? 19. He's 64 people. 64 people.

He's a very accomplished Mafia hitman by 19. I mean, 64. Jesus Christ. Jesus. This is wild here. He's top of the line. Yeah. And he's a high satanic priest.

So he's accomplished a lot in his young years. I'll give him that. Uh-huh. And McKee is acting like he's one of his disciples at this point. So another satanic priest, which is pissing Margo off. Sure. Because she's like, can you get a job? And I have a baby coming.

Right. Once there's a baby coming, it's like, that's all fun and games and shit but you know also he said something about satan the number one thing that those people do is sacrifice how about we fucking figure this out well yeah that's in their minds yeah that's what you'd see in a movie back then and plus he's just thinking can you do anything to help rather than satan isn't paying the bills right so do something so it's at this point uh they're all living together and um he starts having problems he said his aura um is his aura this is well chill no well chill steven welchell said his aura quote had a link that had been busted this is late september he said his aura quote had a link that had been busted i got a busted link in my aura that's literally what he

said busted aura link man this is fucked up my aura you know it's a big circle right and if a link breaks and just flies all out everywhere you're all right right got it feeling yeah it's a link of my aura gets a real scrambled my aura link just all messed up so and then it makes me just kill people for the mafia oh boy so um yeah this is what he's talking about for a few times september 24th 1986 um this is uh nancy is there uh nancy's staying at her friend's house of one night here late that night uh they go they come over uh nancy's there there's five of them there uh on the 24th. Steven Welchel comes over with the girls. I'm sorry.

He comes over with these girls again. They were planning also to go to California with the McKees in early October. We're all going to go to California, and these underage girls are going to come. Let's take them across state lines. Bring our wards with us. That's smart. Yeah, and Jeff Flotta was going to come. Let's take them across state lines. Bring our wards with us. That's smart. Yeah, and Jeff Flotta was going to come. Everybody was coming.

Oh, baby. Are you going to cram in the car, six of us? We're all going to cram in the car. There are very few cars that a 19-year-old can afford that hold six adults comfortably. Comfortably, yeah. Well, two of them are children still. Good boy.

There's a sophomore in there. Yeah. They've got all sorts of... You can get four of them in the back so that's okay there's a sophomore in there yeah they got all sorts of definitely underage so september 26th 1987 margo five months pregnant yeah starting to feel it i would think here a little more than not uh that night uh obviously nancy argues with Welchell there, and Nancy and Welchell argue with Margo. Okay. Margo's telling them, like, you guys are messy and all this type of shit. So it's at that point that Jerry and Margo, the married couple, the McKees, they leave for an hour to cool off and go talk. Okay.

Once they return, when they come back uh mckee jerry mckee comes back by himself he's no he doesn't come back with margo so they're all like uh where the fuck's margo what's going on she comes up about an hour later she shows back up i saw jimmy's like oh i know and she shows up an hour later and she apologizes to steven welchell paul i'm sorry i said i'm sorry i'm sorry that i'm upset that you make a mess and call yourself a high priest and bring underage girls into my home while i'm five months pregnant sorry you can't grow a beard i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry shit face scum beard i really i can't take it anymore i I really apologize. So now she comes up to the apartment apologizing.

McKee comes back to the apartment and he says that he tells her later that he's still mad at Margo. You know, he's like, he's still mad at Margo. He tells one of the other girls, you know, this is this is shitty. Forgiven. Yeah. He says he says he's still mad at her. And he even talked about killing her. He doesn't know. Like, he's still mad at her and he even talked about he killing her he doesn't know like he's just mad at her so uh steve and welchell had asked jerry flaw or jerry uh

mckee mckee there jesus flaw to mckee jeffrey and jerry is what fucks me up uh if tonight was the night and jerry said yes it was so that's what they said that was the the 26th. So now the 27th, he's got a broken aura. Again, he's still talking about it. Link busted in the aura. He says, well, chill. He goes, listen, I got to fix this aura. So let's all of us about 3 a.m. We'll all head down to Moses Lake.

Okay. Because you got to have a 3 a.m. or a fix in session at the lake. It's the only way to fix an aura. Everybody knows that it's in the darkest time. Everybody knows that it's obvious under the moonlight duh so flotta and uh and uh well chill each carry a a table leg which they're going out into like the kind of the wilds there yeah so they're taking this i think for to fend off bears sensibly for protection against if an animal comes jack rabbits and carp coyotes yeah the carp come at you hard you know that they come right out of

the water they're tough you got to be careful about the car you have any seaweed on your feet they'll just eat it bring a piece of ikea so you're safe well it's a taped up reinforced table leg wow so it's like what you would carry like in your fucking in your trunk in your trunk yeah under the passenger seat. Yeah. To whoop somebody's ass. Yeah. I had a Kirby pocket model when I was a teenager.

The whole time somebody gave it to me. It was a perfect length to whip around. But everybody has something. So that's what they have. Reinforced table legs are carrying to protect the group. Yeah. So the Welch also is wearing a hunting knife on his side because he's just one of those idiots that wears fucking hunting knives.

Sure. And just for no reason. And Flotta and McKee, the Jeffrey and Jerry there, and Welchel separate from the girls, okay? So there's three girls, three guys. They go off and separate. Now, they go off and separate so they can play a game. All right.

All right. This is the game. They play rock, paper, scissors. Yeah. That's the game. That would be a part to do that. Rock, paper, scissors is to see who's going to kill Margo. Oh my God.

Rock, paper, scissors. Yeah. Okay. So. Rochambeau. Whoever wins. Winner doesn't have to do anything. No.

Winner has to kill. Oh. Winner's the killer. What? So. That's. I don't understand. I'd be just. jimbo whoever wins winner doesn't have to do anything no winner has to kill oh the killer what so that's i don't understand i'd be just what's the worst fuck they're all equal shit i don't know the loser just doesn't get to doesn't get to kill no you the two people that lose are fine they don't have to get but the winner has to kill i don't know if this is a contest to see who gets to kill or who has to feels like yeah this is more who gets to than who has to

yeah so um he uh flotta ends up winning the game yeah he wins but he said he couldn't do it he tells him that he's like i can't kill her dude i can't kill her you know she's nice and also fucking five months pregnant it's on top of that i'm not a monster this is not the manson family no matter how much we hate her she has a child and this is getting manson-y yeah right now satan we're in the desert you're talking about fucking killing a pregnant woman i'm not liking what i'm hearing right now it's got a fucking aura there's an aura that's busted you know what i'm saying if you start slipping tabs of acid to us i am running the other direction so uh welchell says okay fine and then he has everyone the whole the whole group form a circle

and hold hands okay because he's got to fix his aura so we're all gonna do this and imagine you're five months pregnant you gotta go three o'clock in the morning down to the fucking lake so you can fix some dipshits aura how about fix your beard and then we'll talk about your aura you dip shit fuck your aura fix your life fix your goddamn life you scumbag scumbag fucking idiot so it's somewhere in the circle while they're doing this welchell says that he has to break away from the circle to go take a leak he's like hold on a minute you guys keep you know oring power to the aura i'm gonna go pee quick i'll be back in a second so he takes he leaves for a second, goes and takes a piss. As he comes back, everybody's still in the circle.

He joins the circle in a different way. Rather than rejoining hands, he takes a table leg from behind, wails Margo in the back of the head with a table leg. Fuck. With a reinforced table leg, knocking her to the ground. Yeah. Okay. It's at this point nancy

the 16 year old fucking runs away yeah she was like why what the fuck and i just realized i'm a child oh my god yeah holy shit this isn't fun anymore uh she just realized shit got real really fast and jerry mckee follows her yeah now is he chasing her is he running away also because you know it's his wife i don't know maybe maybe try to protect your pregnant wife that's a thought yeah i don't know something or he's going after her to stop the stop her from that's what i'm saying or is he chasing her what's going on here so we don't know his motives at the time so uh uh the it's at this point before mckee left to go after her uh welchell handed him the knife so

that doesn't look very good at all okay uh but mckee gave it back saying i'm not going i'm gonna stab and fucking no we're ending this here i'm not doing that there's one guy who really has a bloodlust and everybody else is just kind of going along going along with the program because they're part of the group and also he'll fucking kill you yeah they're part of the and obviously they're scumbags also because if you see somebody whale a fucking pregnant teenager with a table leg and you just kind of go along with it you don't really have a good you know yeah i would think you'd have to try to even if you were up with the plan when you saw it happen wouldn't you be like oh no we can't this is fucking crazy that's what it looks like oh no i'm gonna get the other table leg and wail this asshole with it and get him to stop so it's at

this point that welchell shrugs and he just starts beating margo with the table leg repeatedly i mean a lot he's just fucking wailing on her uh jeff flotta attempted to leave but uh welchell called him back made him come back over well yelled at him told him to get back over here and insisted that he put margo in a sleeper hold what he said put her in a sleeper hold put her in a sleeper hold so he makes this kid put this guy fucking put this very badly battered barely alive pregnant teenager in a sleeper hold. And there, Flotta came back and held her for about five minutes in a sleeper hold. Good God.

This is insane. While this is going on, Welchel stabs Margo at least a couple of times right at this particular point and gives the table leg to here's an odd one the 15 year old girl beth yeah that he's going out with and beth beats her with the table leg as well a 15 year old now the vicious girl a sophomore girl is going to beat this girl this is fucking crazy is what's happening probably just wants this to end now right again that's her boyfriend. I don't know how snowed she is by him and how much bullshit he's skewing.

This is very Manson-y. He's got two teenage girls who otherwise weren't going to fucking go murder a pregnant woman. And next thing you know, they're beating and stabbing a pregnant woman. You got three people culpable now at this moment. This is a lot. Yeah. The only person at this point who's not culpable is the fucking the one who ran away the girl who went holy shit this is crazy and ran away because she didn't know what was going on so beth beats her with the table leg nancy she'll end up

saying that beth told her later on about the whole thing they talked about it and beth said that welchell handed her a club to beat uh margo and that she obeyed and she said once she started she just couldn't stop beating her oh gross she didn't want to do it at first but then once she started doing it i remember she got carried away and got into it or what it's not a can of pringles sugar dude this is this is crazy so she's still alive yeah she's been stabbed twice put in a sleeper hold for five minutes, and repeatedly beaten with two different table legs. She's dying. She's begging Welchel to leave her alone.

She said that she's lost so much blood she's going to die anyway. She's literally going, I'm going to die. Just leave me alone. Stop hurting me, basically. Just let me die here. And Welchel told her, this motherfucker oh boy oh boy you scum-faced motherfucker he tells her quote you're going to die by my blade oh boy how what a piece of shit and uh yeah she so then he ended up stabbing her a lot we'll talk about how many times

and uh when she finally seemed to be passed away here um he laughed welchell and said well that's taken care of yeah and just like acted like that's no big deal wiped the blood off on the knife my aura is glowing feeling good on the aura side how about you guys um she was jesus christ struck fuck me she was stabbed uh five times and uh struck between 20 and 30 times to the table a lot so just beaten with yeah whatever um and it's just disgusting man so then he turns to the other people and uh warns them not to tell anybody about this obviously yeah uh you know because if you're gonna have we've said many times this started with i want to say a crime and sports episode from our first 10 so far one of our first 10 podcasts one of the first rule was don't

have a teenager in your hit squad uh if you're gonna kill people yeah if you're gonna kill people don't involve teenagers teenage girls aren't known and i'm not saying the girls but more girl teenage girls are not known for their secret keeping abilities. Generally, they like to tell other people shit. So do teenage boys. The teenagers like to talk. Gossip is so much fun. Yeah.

And they like to say shit they've done and shit they've seen and how cool they are, how badass they are and how dangerous they are. They love that shit. So, oh, my God. So float at this point and Welchel, then take Margo, pick her up, her battered bloody body, and dump her into some bushes and push some dirt and some bushes on top of her down by the lake. Just pushing shit on her. Just some pushing shit, some dirt and some debris and all that sort of shit.

And then they all went back to her apartment. Back to her house. Back to where they were And then they all went back to her apartment, back to her house, back to where they were back to the apartment. Um, they dumped the table legs in the countryside the next day. And, uh, the,

a few days later, Jerry and Flotta, uh, her husband and Flotta went back to the murder site at night again to, to put a little more dirt on it, bury it a little better, you know, a couple of days though,

they waited to do that. Oh shit. So october 16th those girls now uh they know other 15 year olds and 16 year olds and they tell them shit and one of them that we talked about went to the police and said i think i know where a body is because i i heard some stuff all right oh one of the people they told yeah one of the kids from school had a fucking conscience and went oh my god there's a pregnant dead teenager out there i should tell the cops that and they did nancy she doesn't fuck around so there you go they ended up doing that and uh they find it but this is until october 16th so it's three weeks later yeah so the decomposition is not great it's it's warm out there it's it good. No. It's not good at all.

Oh, my God. They find her. It's, like I said, a brutal discovery. They only identify her through dental records. That's how brutal it is. Very, very bad here. Very, very bad. So after a friend tells Jerry McKee that the cops found Margo that day, he hears about it right away.

It's a small town. Jerry gets right up and goes to the Moses Lake Police Department to file a missing persons report because he hadn't even filed a missing persons report. Three weeks. Nobody knew she was missing. Oh, no. She didn't really check in with her foster parents very often. So everybody just figured whatever. She didn't have a job where she would show up every day fuck basically if she wasn't there those are the only other people those five people the only people that talked to her so

nobody was reporting her gone nobody knew she was missing oh my so he reports her missing that day like two hours after they find the body yeah he goes in hey my wife's been missing for about three weeks just in case you run across her they find that suspicious yeah He goes in. Hey, my wife's been missing for about three weeks. Just in case you run across her. They find that suspicious. That's weird. What a coincidence. Wow. So they sit him down.

Let's have a talk, Jerry. What do you say? And we looked at him. Doesn't look like the brightest bulb. No. I feel like you could get him to say some shit. Yeah. They take two tape recordings of McKee here.

Both recordings were done with his knowledge and consent. After Miranda warning and signing the document and everything here. First recording takes place on the 16th. When he goes there, he files the report. And then they question him for about 40 minutes about it, about his wife and about everything. And in 40 minutes, think about how dumb this guy is. In 40 minutes, he went from my wife's i can't find her

she's missing to okay yeah come sit down and you know get some questions hair color eye color all that shit to okay i was there when she was murdered in 40 minutes that was a good investigator in 40 minutes or a high school dropout that has no fucking idea how to get away with murder. We've seen like, you know, 48, the first 48. And you see the 40 minutes to go from, hi, my wife's missing to, I was there. Yeah. I mean, I didn't do it. I was there, though.

He's all 40 minutes. It was shit face scum beard. It was shit face scum beard. His beard was so scummy, man. He he shit all over his face he told me he'd do it to me too so i wish we could call this episode scum face shit beard but we can't it's so sad they won't let his name at that so in his initial statement though um he said that he was present when she was murdered uh he said though he left the murder scene as soon as the first blow was struck to go run. Him and Nancy both ran away. He said, quote, I didn't.

I didn't do. I didn't even take part in doing anything to her. Steve and Jeff did it all. So right now he puts that they didn't know anything about Steve. Now they know about Steve and Jeff. So they're like, and Steve and Jeff, who now pens out part i mean 40 minutes right he's not only crying saying he was there he's giving up accomplices and for i mean fucking jesus throwing leads at him all day wow you can tell he's not the mafia hit man he's giving more leads than the telemarketing right

jesus christ man he would be bad in the mafia yeah very very bad the worst the worst he'd be killed and uh so he then he proceeded to answer questions and uh these questions lead to everyone being arrested they're all five of everybody else are arrested on october 16th the whole crew here uh when they arrest flotta he is with um he's with welchchell here and a search of the car they were driving because they pulled him over and arrested him like that turns up a knife very consistent with the one that would have killed Margo

because you know this idiot wouldn't ditch his knife no it's a survival tool you ditched the table leg but this is my knife right here it's my blade along with Margo's purse that happens to be in a box of clothing on the back seat It's my blade. It's my blade. Along with Margo's purse. What? That happens to be in a box of clothing on the back seat. Just sitting on top.

There's her purse sitting there. So that does not look good. No. The one thing, if the purse was in her husband's car, you know, she might have left it in here, you know, two months ago. I don't know. But these people have no reason to have somebody, a dead woman's purse in their car. That's not a great thing. So they go ahead and arrest these two as well and uh everybody the whole crew gives it up everybody except for uh high priest welchell here and we'll talk about why because it's his name and where he comes from i

feel like is why what he has on his arrest report is amazing what his actual name is his name is not welch wellch it is but he's changed to something else and it's fucking amazing so back to mckee for a minute here in the interrogation room he starts saying that they arrest everybody according to mckee welch told mckee that he wanted to kill margo and he and welch organized all the events leading up to the murder mckee says that welch struck margo on the head with the table then he stabbed her mckee says i ran away from the scene with nancy uh after the first blow and stayed at the top of the hill for about 90 minutes jimmy this went on an hour and a half this went on eating a pregnant teenager

for an hour and a half they tortured this girl they tortured this fucking girl for an hour and a half this is even the manson family didn't fuck with the tates for this long they got it over with i mean there was a little bit of fucking around but once that once they started trying to run away and shit they just started killing people and got it over with this is fucking disturbing here this is enjoying it um this is gross uh he said he returned to the scene after the other girl, Beth came up the hill and told him what Melchel, what Welchel and Flotta were, that they were taking care of it.

Don't worry about it. They got this. It's over. It's all over with. He denied any, any involvement in the killing though. McKee, even when police used the ruse,

they, even when they said, Hey, look, we heard, and we know you struck her with a rock. They tried to play that game with him because he's so dumb. If he did it, he would have bought it. And he said, no, I know you struck her with a rock they tried to play that game with him because he's so dumb if he did it he would have bought it and he said no i didn't hit her with a rock i didn't fucking hit her i never hit her so according to everybody mckee never hit her at all but i mean he allowed the whole thing to happen it's your wife that's what i mean yeah and you

allowed it you this is crazy so the next, police interrogated him again. He again stated that Welchel did it. He says this time, though, that he saw Welchel hit Margo at least 10 times before he went up the hill at this point. He's like, I stayed a little longer than I said before. He also admitted to more serious involvement. They said, quote, why was Margo killed was the question. quote why was margot killed was the question and his answer on a tape recorded answer here was quote because i wanted to get margot out of my life instead of a divorce i wanted instead of a divorce uh stephen welchell had that done so it's his plan it's his plan because he wanted to get out of his marriage that he's been in for fucking five months and knocked this poor girl marriage he created

yeah this is his doing wow um so he said that he never asked welchell to murder his wife but told him quote just don't involve me when welchell said he would kill her so he's like well i want to know about it but you can kill her if you want which is just as bad so both mckee and flotta admitted to knowing that welchell wanted to kill Margo when they all went down to the lake together that that was the plan they both admitted they did nothing to try to save her life they learned from Flotta that they played rock paper scissors and all that sort of shit Jesus fuck this is this is awful if Flotta also ascribed that most of the fault of the murder to Welchel saying that margo was still alive

after he put her in the sleeper hold which he said that he was forced to do and was stabbed to death it was well there after the sleeper hold mckee and flotta also stated that welchell would have harmed them if they interfered with the murder well there's two of you and you have table legs so he ain't arming shit it's a good point two of you start beating this motherfucker with table legs i don't care who he is or what kind of knife he's got one goes high one goes low and you fucking beat his ass yeah if me and you have table legs we can kick anybody's ass i'm sorry anybody that's unarmed or with a knife i'm in i'm whooping their goddamn ass you go high i go low and that's it knees and face and they're going down you mean you go high i go yeah that's probably what i say

the other way around yeah that would be smart i am not going i'm going high you're going down you mean you go high i go yeah that's probably what i say the other way around yeah that would be i am not going i'm going high you're going low you're right i'm coming from the top bang you go at the knees i don't know how you're gonna get to their knees jane it's gonna be hard it's gonna be a really long way it's it's better so um both of them said both guys said that they feared and disliked Welchel. And also McKee said that Welchel had threatened to come after him if he said anything implicating about him. So Jerry Flotta, they also float or whatever the fuck they they tape record his whole deal. And after his Miranda and everything like that, he said it was Welchel. Same thing.

He said, I did put her in a sleeper hold. Yada,ada yada yada so um everybody pretty much has the same exact story yeah even the girls they say welchell hit her and was forcing other people to participate that sort of shit now like we said the police have some evidence that like margo's purse found in steven's car and steven's name on record here yeah this is on his record because i have it right here um the name that he puts uh let's take a look jimmy you want to read that for me get the fuck out of here he chose he just wrote that down that's his name shadow lord shadow lord one word by the way shadow lord right not lord comma shadow shadow lord so i don't know if this is like some game character or what but i hate him he got his police record says his name is shadow lord right this guy's an asshole in the 80s before online video games he had a screen name

shadow lord the asshole oh he'll have you'll wait till you see this later oh my god so right away there's the physical evidence is not good. No? They don't have anything. No? Basically. They have, no blood was found on Welchel's clothes. Oh my.

And the two wooden table legs that were found, neither were ever conclusively determined to have been the murder weapon. They had sat outside. They didn't find the table legs for a month and a half. So they were. Shitty wood. They're shitty find the table legs for a month and a half. So they were... Shitty wood. They're shitty wood. The tape on them.

The tape also, it doesn't soak into the wood as much. It's a... Whatever. Rain happens, dirt. And it disintegrates. Disintegrates. So it's all basically, there's nothing, no way to establish that. They say it's something like that hitter, but they can't establish an exact.

That sucks. Because it's not acute enough. If it was like a crowbar, you could see exactly. You could put some tool marks. You could put it in a skull or something, but you can't do it with these clubs because they're so, could have been a rock, could have been any blunt object the way they are.

So additionally, the prosecution could not establish that a knife found in Welchel's car, which everybody said was the one that he used to stab welchell they couldn't tie it to the to that though physically stab margo that's it or stab margo yeah they said people said that's what he used but he said no so what the shit how do you not have blood trace on it or something did they boil it i mean apparently they whatever yeah they couldn't they couldn't tie it physically he must have cleaned it off i don't know maybe put some bleach on it um people all say that that was the knife and the ones very similar uh it was bought

by mckee and uh the knife actually that they found mckee's are the only fingerprints on this knife oh they don't know they don't know if either mckee's lying or if that maybe this is a different knife and it's mckee's knife and not the knife that Welchel used or we have no idea or Welchel cleaned it then McKee has had it since then or we don't they all live in a room who the shit knows everybody's got all of their if one of them got COVID everyone's got it you know what I mean

they're very close together these people they are super spreaders a group of them these fucking this little group here so yeah they they said that this knife, there was also, they said that McKee and Flotta tried to sell the knife used to kill Margo sometime between the murder and their arrest.

One of the girls said that, the younger girls. The only piece of physical evidence linking Welchel to the murder was Margo's purse found in his car, which can be explained away in certain ways here the presence of the purse kind of uh goes with welch's welch ends up saying that he helped flotta and mckee and mckee cover up the crime after they committed it that's his thing he goes well yeah i helped them cover it up right so that's why i had the purse but i didn't they they were the ones who

ones who killed her you know they came to me the shadow lord yeah when you need to cover something up you come to the shadow lord obviously and i'll cast a shadow upon it i'd be afraid of admitting anything like that based on how manson manson never killed anybody either bud no i mean conspiracy put you away forever too yeah he did shop gary hinman's ear off and that way he participated in that death so but still yeah it's bad. So, yeah, they do all of this. He said that he also brought in a box full of items containing Flota's clothes to his house to wash blood for them, to wash the blood off of them. So according to what Welchel said, he was stopped by police when he was returning clothes and other items in the box to Flota. So he was saying

i was cleaning all this shit up for him and bringing it back to him i'm all done with my job and that was it yeah um now there's he says he has an alibi uh george flota who is jeffrey's father he said that welchell uh mid-morning of afternoon the day of the murder uh he he testified about this later on welchell says he left the group when they went down to the lake there he said at that time uh five people since it was margo was there still the night of the murder and he went back to his parents house and he went home around 1 30 a.m and he spent the night there he said he woke up about 10 30 a.m welchell did and uh his mother and father and sister all said that he was home that night and they saw him awake on the morning of the 27th and then he left

the house so he's saying i went over there yeah and um you know i wasn't even around when they went down to the lake i went to my parents house and hung out went to sleep and then i got caught up with him again the next day okay that. That's his story here. But the state presents the testimony of a shitload of witnesses that say otherwise, including Deputy Frank Detrolio. That's a fucking mouthful, that handle. Of Grant County Sheriff's Office testified that he went to the Welchel residence on September 27th at 1230 p.m. looking for the two runaway teenage girls one of which he's going out with oh boy think about that they were that day that morning hours

it's nine hours after this assault started there was a police officer at this guy's door for completely unrelated issue that's how much of a scumbag he is yeah he's got cops coming looking for runaway teenage girls he says detrolio says that he did not see welchell at the home during his visit and when he asked the welchell's father if his son was home the father said that welchell did not live there so he's not home he's not here because he doesn't live here why would he try to cover for him he didn't after the fact the father didn't no no now he's in court saying he was home no no no the father's saying he wasn't home okay the well till saying he's home got it but the father the father's trying to cover for him yeah that's my point yeah the father's trying to cover but he forgot that a talk to a police officer the fucking that day like a jackass it's all in there there's only

10 000 people here sir did they yeah you want to go to arby's so while his father said that he wasn't home he also said that uh you know obviously different testimony later on second uh janetta massey who is uh beth's mom she says that she went to welchell's parents home the morning of the 27th to look for her daughter and then she ended up sending the police after that she said that she arrived at the welchell home at about 11 a.m and sat with welchell's mother and father in the kitchen she said she didn't see welchell in the house either so everybody's looking for these girls now the uh so he you know they said he might have been somewhere else in the house but they said he didn't live there so that's all they know third a guy named David Froh. He is the manager of Jerry McKee's and Margo McKee's apartment complex. And he also, they get a statement from him.

He said that he saw Welchel leaving the McKee's apartment with everybody else at 3 a.m. the morning of the 27th. He saw them leaving going to. The manager's up at that time of night. Apparently, yeah. I don't know what the hell he's doing, but he's... Having a cigarette. A lot of meth. Yeah.

So, later on, he'll say he was sleepy when he saw the group, and he only saw the backs of them, but, you know, he figured whatever. He said he only saw the backs of five people, not six. So, under the prosecution's theory, there should have been six people at 3 a.m. Good point. It should have been six people, and on the way back, there should have been six people then on the way back there should have been five yeah but here there should be six uh but he's also as tired and who knows if he missed one of them because he didn't think you would have to note this for a murder trial later on that you have to testify yeah finally uh he

says that uh he thought he saw uh the guy he saw thought he saw was welchell only because welchell had long dark hair and that's all he saw. But Flotta had long, dark hair, too. So who the hell knows? Fourth, George Flotta, the father, testified that he went to Welchel's parents' home on the 27th to look for his son at a time when Welchel should have been at the house, according to his alibi so three different people the time that everybody his family says he was home literally three different people went there and we're all told not only is he not here but he doesn't live here that morning that's a busy house that's a lot of people coming and going looking for teenage girls and alibis this is crazy shit so uh they talk about the autopsy also like we said very

awful autopsy here the two young girls spill it. Beth and Nancy are like, I'll tell you every fucking thing we want to know. They're going to make a deal with Beth and Nancy to try them as juveniles if they will testify against everybody else. That's the deal there. Massey, which is Beth, she pleads guilty to first degree murder by complicity and used uh nancy pleaded to first degree rendering of criminal assistance okay i like nancy's charges i don't like beth's beth should be stricter yeah she participated in a murder she hit a pregnant woman with a woman fuck she hit a pregnant child with a fucking a leg of a table repeatedly not just over and over

wasn't just like do it now and she was like okay and hit her once and ran away they she was like once i got into it once you pop you can't stop you know fuck it so um yeah so they plead to that they're given plea bargains in exchange for their testimony at the trials of flottam mckee and welchell so they're gonna try mckee and flotta together and then Welchel's going to get a separate trial. He's the kingpin here. He's the hitman. So Nancy testifies

that a couple of weeks before the killing, she walked in on a discussion between Welchel and McKee, in which Welchel said that he would have Margo killed on his way to California. He's like, tell you what, I'll kill her on the way out. Don't worry about it.

I got you covered. That was a couple weeks before it. And on the night of the 27th, she said that Welchel told Flotta and Hughes, quote, tonight's the night. We're getting her tonight. She said they formed a circle. He excused herself and all of that sort of thing happened. She said, for the first time, I really knew Steve. Once the table leg hit, Nancy said, for the first time, I really knew Steve was going to kill her.

Yeah, that would make sense at that point. She also said that while she was dying, that she was pleading with God to make Satan stop beating her because she thought he was Satan at the time. This is fucking horrible, that poor girl. uh according to all of this too um jesus christ this is just fucking terrible man between the i'm just uh disturbed by this shit so to absorb jay it's a lot man so someone from the high school cleaned out margo's locker a few days after her body was found and brought some papers by. And for her mother, her foster mother there, Mrs. Sterling, she said that she saw something from one of Margo's last days of school that she had written down. And she made a list of things she could do so she and Jerry wouldn't fight.

That's what she was doing. She's trying to appease the man. This fucking jackass, idiot, fucking moron that he is. he wouldn't fight oh that's what she was doing trying to trying to appease the man this fucking jackass idiot fucking moron that that he is and she's trying there's something inside him that she likes and she wants to preserve i don't know what it is unbelievable it's fucking horrible so in exchange for being prosecuted as juveniles massey and hughes the young girls nancy and beth plead guilty and they testify like we said. And so a principal part of the case here is the tape recorded statements that they made admitting to this shit and putting Welchel into everything.

Additionally, the state relies upon George Flotta's deposition of going there and not Welchel wasn't home. That ruins his alibi. So all that sort of shit. They end up finding a bloodstained blanket okay okay this is a couple months later sure this is like december they find a bloodstained blanket near the crime scene and had a large bloodstain on it as well as two human hairs one hair was naturally blonde and one hair was bleach blonde so either way two blonde hairs because of the exposure to the elements for several months, though, a blood type analysis couldn't even be performed on the blanket.

Everything was deteriorated. It was all, you know, just gone. So there you go. It could not even be determined whether the blood on the blanket was human at that point. They couldn't even tell that. They could just tell that it looks red. That's all they could see. Nowadays, they could probably pull a little more out of it.

But in 86, they were like, I don't know. Damn near clone a person. Yeah, they could probably make a dinosaur out of that blanket at this point. So Steve here, Welchel, he maintains the presence of the hairs, which match the hair colors of Margot and McKee, and the absence of any hair matching his color says see i wasn't there right told you done case closed look at all this hair exoneration couldn't possibly not lose one of my scum beard obviously i would

he also says that the blanket confirms his testimony that flotta told him he threw away a sheet or a blanket over margo when he choked her so he's like this all it all makes sense and clears me so november 12th 86 the state chart gives everybody an extra charge or at least the guys gives all three guys an extra charge and charging them with the death of the fetus as well oh good they charge them there uh it's also uh it's manslaughter and the death of the fetus uh they're gonna you know charge that also uh they said that the law they're talking about aggravated first degree murder and whether that's an option and the prosecutor says it isn't a matter of whether we want to seek it

out or not it's whether it's whether it qualifies under the law there's really no discretion on our part and this doesn't qualify because there's no there's special specific things for first degree murder that whatever for those special aggravated first degree murder so uh they decide on a manslaughter charge for the fetus and all of that uh they learned that mckee had visited margo had visited an obstetrician four days before her death four days so i think that's what made viable pregnancy and she was keeping it i think that's what made mckee flip out uh right think about that four days he's a fucking idiot uh january 1987 though it comes out that they can't be charged with the death of the fetus at this point no uh the judge tosses out the charge uh it's it's too young to be protected under the law

the law addresses fetuses 28 weeks and older for this specific thing seven months and this was 21 weeks so it just didn't didn't fall under the law basically so they couldn't charge him with that but you know regular murder is good too so we still have that mckee and flotta's trial is first here okay so um they basically say that uh they put it all on mckee and they say fucking hey uh he had his his wife killed because he was tired of her she didn't get along with his friends they didn't want to hear her complain anymore they didn't want to pay for a baby um she said that she felt that their privacy was invaded when everybody moved in and there was all this

complaining and she was tired of it that's what they're saying um which is that's a hell of a motive for murder as i imagine that that's a that's what they're thinking is the motive but i mean hey um it seems to be the reason though that's the weird part that's how pathetic these people are is that has enough for these assholes so um the uh defense here they say that it's all it's all the other guy so why are we even here basically like he forced us to do it we're very scared of him his wow okay mckee's lawyer says that he believed welchell had mystical powers over the small group all right he had mystical powers right he quote bragged that he was a high priest of satan that he was a member of the mafia and that he had killed 64 people in california level 84 that's

what they tell the jury 64 man and uh he says that welchel made those statements to impress everybody and uh they believed him and they were very scared of him he also says that welchel planned the murder on his own and they no what he even knew what he was doing. Flotta said that he was at the scene, but that he is, quote, stupid and naive and scared to death of Welch. His lawyer said there was no conspiracy, just a single savage moment by Stephen Welch. 90 minutes is not a fucking moment. No, not a moment. That's a whole movie.

You had a lot movie you had a lot of ways a lot of time to intervene and mckee in 90 minutes when he wasn't even near the scene could have been calling the police right the cops could have showed up while they were still murdering her yeah that's how that's how much fucking time they had and how much the opportunity he had literally they could have showed up while she was still alive even if you were afraid to do it yourself like a pussy. So, yeah, his lawyer, Jerry McKee's lawyer, describes him as a timid, cowardly, immature boy with no sense of responsibility. Yeah.

Sure. And murder. You can add to that. Bad man. Asshole. Yeah. So they said that Welchel was jealous of Margo McKee and felt threatened in his friendship with Jerry about her. The girls, like we said, they testify the same thing they said earlier. There is one little thing here about it.

One of the girls testified that she contradicts her story talking about who initiated the conversations in the beginning. Was it McKee or was it mckee or was it welchell okay three weeks earlier because the one girl had said that she heard one guy bring it up and then the other one said she heard the other one bring it up so we don't know if those were just different times doesn't matter and they had the same subject but that was the thing that the defense was trying to oh boy was trying to hone in on is the girls they don't even know who said it they don't even know what's going on. Meanwhile, it was like, you know, a thing in passing for months ago. So in closing, the Grant County prosecutor told the jury that Margo McKee was, quote, a rose surrounded by noxious weeds.

Yeah. Which is a pretty nice way of putting it. All of them. They are noxious weeds. Yeah. Disgusting. Shit face. Scum beards

a bunch of dandelions a bunch of dandelions so february 1st 1987 mckee and flotta the verdict comes in for them uh jury deliberates six men six women they deliberate for 10 and a half hours over a two-day period and they find them guilty of first- degree murder oh boy both of them uh yeah one and two guilty and guilty first degree murder so uh now they are going to appeal though of course as we'll talk about their sentencing and appeal and all that sort of shit here and uh there's a reason why something gets fucked up for later on all based on this okay 87 starts the welchell trial starts here steven welchell the high priest of douchebaggery here um the first of all the trial judge denies his request to introduce the evidence of the bloodstained blanket they want to introduce that and they

say well they can't even prove they he says you can't even prove that was part of the murder so we can prove is that's a blanket with blood on it yeah that we don't even have any part of so as you can prove it fuck off so he can't so the openings there um wow this is uh this is amazing the defense says quote or is this the uh no this is the uh this is the yeah the defense layer now just as the blood of abel cried out for vengeance so will the blood of margo mckee oh my he's getting yeah fucking wild on that shit getting all biblical on that ass he also said this is luke mckee and the defense attorney he called the say the slaying a savage brutal and senseless killing but he said the defense evidence will dispute everybody's account and will show what an innocent guy stephen welchel is

the blood he says quote the blood of margo mcgee on the clothing of jerry mckee jeff flotta and beth packer will tell you who killed margo mckee as he says that there was blood stains found on welchell's clothing as evidence that he killed mckee that's what the prosecution says but the defense says that the blood came from a cut on his forehand he said on on his forearm. So it was just a cut that he had. He bled on himself. It's not her blood. The other guy's totally guilty, though.

Okay. So that's what they're going to say here. They said also members of Welch's family will testify that he was at home with his family doing nice, innocent things. That's a ballsy thing to say when so many people dispute it, though. That's what I mean. The timeline is so fucked. You don't even want to talk about that. Three people have nothing to do with each other.

No. A cop, a parent, and another parent. I'll say no. They barely know each other. Didn't even see him. Nope. So it doesn't even live here. So the lawyers also, both lawyers, though, portrayed Jerry McKee as an opportunist scumbag

asshole who married a young girl for her inheritance, married her, knocked her up, and then got sick of her when she didn't have any more money. So that's basically what they do there. But the prosecution says Welchel has planned it. It was his idea to kill Margo, and the defense is saying,

no, it was all Jerry McKee. That's the key there. At their trial, the difference here though is mckee and flota would be great if they testified here since that's part of their deal right but they don't testify because they have an appeal pending now because they tried them first so based on that any testimony any cross-examination they could face could fuck their appeal up absolutely so they're not they don't have to testify so they made this deal duh so the shit yeah they don't

have to testify it's all fucked it's all fucked it's all fucked out jimmy god damn it they are allowed to introduce their recorded statements though but that's not the same thing you hear a tape recording the jury blank fucking tunes out after five minutes. You got to have a face to look at, you know. So, yeah, they said everybody else is testifying. The recordings are in. Is the Welch attorney freaked out about the tapes? This is ridiculous. This is bullshit.

I should have to, you know, I get to I should have to get to cross examine these people, which is kind of a good point. Facing your accusers is kind of one of the main deals of the Constitution. So are they framing him? Who knows? Are they framing him? The prosecution presented seven different witnesses to whom Welchel allegedly admitted committing the murder or said he planned to do so. That's a hell of a framing. That's a lot.

Yes. Tarina Liebrecht testified that Welchel said, quote, we killed Margo. Oh. That's pretty plain. Yeah. Audrey McClellan testified that Welchel told her, quote, we killed Margo. Welchel says that these statements are consistent with the story that he was involved with the cover-up, and that's it. He also, here we go, Welell argues that a tracy weaver's

testimony only implicated him in the conspiracy weaver testified that welchell had quote come in and said that him and his friends killed jerry's wife margo he's not me and my friends right uh mary mosley's testimony said the same thing she testified that she heard welchell referring to margo say quote we're going to kill her oh no this is a lot this is like people this is everybody you've ever known why do you talk so much it's about something that's obviously so fucking illegal this is wild uh this is it couldn't be more i could have a t-shirt i killed margo steven kirkendall testified that welchell told him quote margo was going to be killed and that quote uh i

wanted her killed like welchell said i want her killed yeah on cross-examination he said that welchell never told him he was going to kill margo himself like personally he also said that he had previously been injured by welchell uh which during something he characterized as a quote sucker punch to the head which led to a three-day hospital stay so welchell's just a great guy he's a real fucking piece of work and uh he said that he you know does hold a grudge against welchell and he would love to see him convicted but he did hear that anyway it doesn't make it less true but sure i'd love to see him in jail for murder fuck this guy so two people testified that he actually said he committed the murder. Douglas Crozier testified that Welchel said that he killed someone, though didn't mention Margo's name.

He said that Welchel said that, quote, he had killed someone and that he would do it again if a friend ever asked him to. So he's ready to kill some more. On cross-examination, he admitted some animosity toward Welchel. Anyway, outside of that and david joy a former cellmate of both welchell and mcgee testified that welchell told him that he killed margo so yeah there you go on cross-examination he said that uh um you know that mcgee he had talked to them and that's basically what he said no they came up that they both told me that i'm telling you what they said so uh yeah this is

fucking amazing they try to do the alibi thing which kind of dies out there um so the the girls testify again and this time hughes said that she ran away when she uh heard quote quote heard a crack like when you hit a baseball that's what she said it sounded like that um she said she did turn back around and margo was on her knees, and Steve Welchel was standing behind her. She said she then ran away, and that later she started to return to the scene, and Welchel told her to, quote, get the hell out of here. So he was busy, I guess. She said that she heard Margo pleading with them to stop on cross-examination, though. It says that she made an earlier statement that said she held her hands over her ears after Margo was first struck with something. So the during the murder part, but she's everything else is consistent up to that point.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, Massey, she testified that she actually saw Welch will kill Margo because she was right there. Right. And she also hit her with a goddamn table leg. Part of it. She admitted that she hit Margo with a table leg and all of that sort of shit.

So first here, Massey broke up with Welchell right before the murder. But before she agreed to testify and Welchell threatened also to turn her in. So they did this whole thing where like she had broken up with him and then threatened also to turn her in so they did this whole thing where like she had broken up with him and then she he she threatened to turn him in and then she he said well why don't i turn you in they went back and forth like that such a mature relationship it's ridiculous yeah steven himself testifies oh boy like a fucking moron you got to you got it

all that shit facing you. Exactly. And he wants to talk shit. He wants to get his shit out there, just like Manson wanted to talk as much as he could. He says he left home about 1.30 a.m. He said that it was not till the next day that he learned about Margo's murder from Jerry. He says that McKee told him that Beth repeatedly hit Margo and that Flo to put her in a chokehold and that she went limp. He said that McKee told him

that Flota had stabbed Margo and all that sort of shit, but he wasn't there. He just said that he agreed to wash Beth and McKee's bloody clothes at his house and that he and McKee also drove out to the country where they threw the table legs away. And they talked about his alibi witnesses and all that sort of shit um yeah so anyway um they said why didn't you give any

information to the authorities until you got arrested and he said quote no one came to me he said we felt that it was best to keep quiet the father said that we best felt that it was best to keep quiet until he had a counsel nobody asked nobody asked me i don't know minding my own business so june 1st 1987 yeah the jury deliberates for four days wow this is first degree murder mind you with no evidence so just witnesses co-conspirators so uh four days of deliberation and he is found guilty of first degree murder good uh pretty fucked here first degree murder sentencing comes around he reads a statement this is this is his time to shine this is his plea for for mercy this isn't one of those guys that goes i have nothing to say your honor i just like to say you know i hope the family for none of that shit this is charles manson i get to make a statement

now great so this isn't going to be short. No. It's going to be long. He reads an hour-long statement. Oh, my God. This is not what they want when they say, do you have anything to say? They don't expect an hour-long statement. An hour.

Only assholes who call themselves Shadow Lord and want to make public spectacles of themselves like Manson do this shit. It takes months to build an hour of material. It's a lot. This guy just did it overnight. No, he pumps it right out. Jesus. He said he reads an hour-long statement.

He maintains his innocence during this and accuses Jerry McKee and Beth Massey of being the real killers. He also said that he was harassed and threatened by the Grant County Sheriff's Department and other offices during his arrest. He said, quote, law enforcement in this county has wanted me and my family out of this county for some time. Yeah. They're the whites over here now. In closing here, an hour. Oh, 58 minutes. He starts his closer.

Think about this. An hour of this. Oh, my God. They did it. And the sheriff's department wants me and my one time when my daddy was 14 he went to school with the guys now imagine this for a fucking hour oh fuck and finally he said that uh um this is fucking great in closing he said quote i'm afraid now that i've said these things i will not see my appeal that's what he said he's just he said they're gonna kill me now because i've talked shit about the sheriff's department so uh they handcuffed him and all of that sit him down and the judge also has something to say to him as well was it an hour he called uh it wasn't it was a little

shorter than that he called what he did cruel and senseless and said that he could not find he said it was cruel and senseless but even though it was cruel and senseless he couldn't find a compelling reason to go beyond the standard sentencing range though you sir yeah may fuck off 27 years and nine months he gets for this uh 333 months basically i would like life for this it's pretty good i mean it's something here he's also fined ten thousand dollars and so there's that okay big deal 27 years now he asked for bail yeah well you know well he's pending all this while all this is pending and the public defender filed an appeal while his appeal is pending he files it so he's been sentenced yeah

but he wants bail following appeal while the appeal is going that happens in like white collar shit when no one's life is in danger you killed a child man this is crazy really um yeah and uh the they agree the prosecution said the bail will be set at 250 000 you're gonna let this fucking guy out on the street not that he has 250 000 but still they should have said yes and then made it 25 billion dollars yeah 25 quadrillion trillion dollars enjoy there's a bail november 87 he appeals and now we're going to go through his appeal just quick i'm not going to go through the details of it because it's very detailed uh he says he wasn't allowed to confront his accusers because his attorney wasn't allowed to cross-examine flotta and mckee that's your

which is a good fucking point though too that's a good point um that there um they said that mckee and flotta had a strong incentive to misrepresent their role in the murder and to shift the blame from his point of view you're right there and the appeals court held that the admission of the tape recorded statements by them was not an error because mckee and flotta were not legally available to testify at the trial that's they didn't do it because they didn't want to they didn't they couldn't because of the appeal so they said that the uh the statements bore a sufficient showing of trustworthiness welchell then appealed to the washington supreme court which granted him a review

on the issue of whether the tape recorded statements should have been allowed under the sixth amendment the confrontation clause in the sixth amendment should they have tried them after him that's probably what they should have done they should have absolutely done that but the order was backwards absolutely but they needed to have them locked down so they would right they wouldn't make a deal it was a mess so uh the court affirms the conviction it held the admission of the tape recordings was constitutional because the error didn't fall under blah blah blah right so they also held the error to be harmless, overwhelming, untainted evidence of the defendant's guilt was presented at trial, they said. So one error doesn't matter.

But through further appeals here, because this goes up the line and up the line, they talk about the Sixth Amendment and what it could do. And one court says the Flotta and mckee recordings are textbook examples of co-defendant statements that are presumptively unreliable because they're self-serving and uncorroborated co-conspirator testimony so that's a that's i don't know if one corroborates the other if they're both co-conspirators though i'm not sure so while flotta and mckee uh they admitted to being at the murder scene and were aware that they were margo was to be killed they minimized their own role and they said hey i mean that's just good for them they said it's an attempt to foist blame on welchell while minimizing

their responsibility obviously they were tried together so they had the advantage of doing that whereas he's all by himself over here they said the statements were contrary to the penal interests of i just love hearing the penal interest i don't know why we all have penal interests guys but you you gotta watch them you gotta watch your penal interests here uh so the uh this all goes through we'll just get to the the deal here they decide to give him a new trial. They said a new trial. Oh, the boys can be, they can come through now. They can testify now.

So they decide new trial here. The district court correctly held the confrontation clause error had a substantial and injurious effect on the influence of the jury. The case against Welchel consisted of three types of evidence, physical evidence,

the testimony of third parties who either heard Welchel making incriminating statements about the murder or placed him near the scene and the testimony of his four co-defendants so if you take one of those out it really doesn't hold up so he's supposed to get a retrial february 1998 is when his retrial is supposed to come three days before the trial supposed to start a uh here uh the trial is canceled by grant county superior judge evan b spurline he's sent back to the pen at walla walla while the state appeals court at a federal court while he appeals that now he has to appeal the the state appealed the decision and they won so now he's got to appeal the appeal and that could take up to a year now he's got to appeal the appeal.

And that could take up to a year going all the way to the ninth U.S. Circuit Court. Put him back in the avocado under the sink. That's it. So. Wow. 2000. He finally gets the answer to 1998.

Yeah. Where several constitutional errors were made during his trial. Confrontation clause. A couple of things that have to do with that. Violation of his due process rights by failure to admit certain evidence found at the crime scene, meaning the blanket. Cumulative error preventing him receiving a fair trial. And they said, but they end up affirming his conviction. OK, so during all of this, though, he ends up making a deal with them to make an Alford plea, basically, through all of this. Admit guilt, but not...

Admit you have enough evidence to convict me, but not admit guilt. So, he ends up doing that. Through that, because they're like, we're sick of fucking doing this with this guy. So, through all of that, the time that he's supposed to be in there oh no ends up coming up and june of 2002 steven is released from prison stop released now 15 years in jail he's ended up pleading guilty to second degree murder on that gained his freedom through a plea bargain saying he already served more than the maximum term a lot allowed at the time of the crime. So they went back to there and it was an Alford plea and that's how it works.

He was just, yeah, so he gets out. Oh, Jesus. By the way, he gets right back into technology because, you know, it's a new time. He gets an email address. Look at what his email address was. Shadowlord at AOL.com. But, you know, taking some vowels out

because someone else already had Shadow Lord. I'm sure by 2002. January 2004. January 5th, to be exact, is when it happens. He's arrested again. Of course he is. For harassment and assault in the fourth degree. Not sure of who.

But crazy thing happens here. Stop it. Harassment, assault in the fourth degree oh not sure of who but crazy thing happens here stop it harassment assault in the fourth degree you can't do that sometime not when you were a murderer right sometime within 24 hours of this happening he dies what he's fucking dead at 37 i don't know if i couldn't find an article i don't know if the cops killed him I don't know if he got like shot by the cops I don't know if he died in custody I don't know if he like OD'd when they were had a fucking massive heart attack or what assaulted came back and found him we don't know but within 24

hours of him being arrested or 48 hours he's he's dead he's a shadow dead 2004 Welchell is dead as a doornail unbelievable fuck that guy. That's small town murder right there. So sort of a happy ending anyway.

How about that too? Because had he stayed in jail, he probably would still be alive. Who knows? Yeah, I don't know what happened. Or maybe someone in jail killed him. We don't know what happened to him. Unbelievable. It's wild, right?

So anyway, if you like that story, I don't know how you wouldn't. That's a crazy-ass story. What a story. Please tell us. Are the other two fucks still in jail, or did they get out? They got 20 years. They're out by now. Yeah.

So they got out by now. Hopefully they're not dummies anymore. Let's hope they just start doing something quiet and shutting up and staying out of everybody's way. Doing meth and keeping to themselves. That's all. Hopefully maybe having a heart attack in a trailer. We'll see.

So if you like the show tell us about it tell the world get on apple podcast the purple icon and give us five stars because it really does help drive us up the charts also head over to shut up and give me murder.com we got everything there merchandise all for crime and sports and small town murder and more importantly though tickets to the live show or virtual live show that's the one january the 29th 2021 and for 72 hours afterwards you can get it as well a lot of fun real setup real show actual case just like we would do in a theater at a live show two weeks away two weeks away except we can only do it once unlike a theater in a live show so please sign up and uh or you know get the tickets for it because like i said

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patreon so he's like that's part of his marketing pitch who knows it's fucking anthem so uh last week we did uh small one-star reviews. So these awful reviews of towns and a couple of our show as well that we threw in there. But Christ, was it funny. Let me tell you something. That was a sick, wild, funny episode. And the crime and sports episode that you'll also get access to, that bonus episode, was about a defunct wrestling company with a crazy owner who died in one of the most insane ways I've ever heard in my life. So you really want to hear all those episodes. with a crazy owner who died in one of the most insane ways I've ever heard in my life.

So you really want to hear all those episodes. We'll have another murdery episode next week for Small Town Murder. And next week's Crime and Sports Patreon is going to be the death of Steve McNair. Unbelievable. So lots of murder. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Sign up right now. Anybody over the $5 level gets access to everything.

And anybody who gives anything is going to get a shout out from Jimmy and be a producer of our show. And Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name horribly. Even if you don't sign up for Patreon, but you go to PayPal and you just throw a couple bucks that way because you want to have good karma and you want to be a producer. He'll mispronounce your name there. And all you did was use our email address, GrimeAndSports at gmail.com to make that donation. And thank you. God damn it, do we appreciate every penny that thank you guys so much even people like i said if you give people give us a dollar they're like i know that doesn't help yeah it does a lot of people listen to the show dollars a lot people have literally given us loose change and we were like thanks yeah that's we don't care thank you we'll take it we'll take anything thank you so

because we put the show out for free so anytime somebody wants to pay us for it, you are doing something you don't have to do. You're going above and beyond. So we're blown away by that. So we try to give you the best damn Patreon content we can for the dollar and everything else. So thank you, everybody, for that. And that said, I need to hear the names of the people who have no broken aura and who go right up to Arby's with no line in a small town.

Jimmy, hit me with those people right now. This week's executive producers are Alistair George, who donated both ways. Wow. And an unbelievable sweet donation. Thank you so much, Alistair. Thank you so much. Yeah, I remember the thank you so much. That's really cool.

Other executives this week are Elizabeth Hawk, Colleen Vigas. i think that's a g josh denton george jordan bennett jesus i put okay jordan bennett amanda with no last name dan cammon zined zined uh christine mellick and shelby whitman thank you guys so much we can't do it without you oh god thank you other producers this week are peyton meadows liz vasquez kennel passmore also jenny uh more of morovic more more morovic her son is uh suffering it's brutal i don't know but she listens to us to to help her get through it and uh it's very very sweet i don't give too much about what's happening in our life we could be there for you hang in there hang in there yeah we're here for you. I'm so glad you got a tough kiddo. Other producers also are Anat Falah, Michelle Lockhart, Jeff Carlson, Liz Vasquez, James Marder. Michelle Lockhart was in Steve Irwin's memory also.

He passed away recently. I guess he loved us, which was very nice. Missed you already, Steve. Sorry to lose him. Spencer Westcott, Nick with no last name, Carl Kirshner, Christopher Gillespie, Andrea Olakia, Abigail Lohr, Allison Brewer, Ryan Commons, Jackson Palmer, Andy Kroepf, and his cute butt also apparently. That's what I'm told. Evidently he's got a great one. Well, good for you.

Good caboose, Andy. I mean, shit. Ken with no last name, Stephanie Phelps, Janet Kroscheck. Nikki with no last name. Kimberly Cooey. Andrew Dalzell Roberts. Matthew Bolin. Thomas Keeble. Holly Stifelmeyer.

Sean Morian. It's Italian. Of course it is. Of course it is. Mehrani. Mehrani. Yep. I am such a piece of shit.

We're going to Italy someday, John. I swear to God. I'm just going to take you there so you cannot be able to read anything that happens. I don't know. Even spaghetti will be spelled weird. It's going to be like, fuck. I don't know. Do you have the spaghetti?

We're saying it like that. Are you going to have it? Hey. Jonathan Grogan. Alistair George. I said that. She's amazing. Jacob Shaw.

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Collins. Caleb Cook. Matthew Marlow. Pamela Greenlee. Kyler Crawford. Tim Bordley. Michelle Hansen. Yes.

Oh, Michelle Hansen asked me if I've been to the candy store. Everybody's been to the candy store. Gross. I've been there way too many times. Thomas Lepesh. That's a shitty strip club in North Phoenix, by the way, called the candy store. It's disgusting. Yeah.

I've been there. Thomas Lepesh Provengano. Provengano. Provengano. There you go. There you go. Becky Comlacy. What is this? Lena Gas gasper vince acuti what yep you got that jimmy bobby please any italian people out there just even if it's just a fucking

dollar i don't care we i'm not trying to but it'll be worth please it'll be worth it here jimmy destroy your name taylor ireland joshua burton mary bates sean mead uh june dickinson adam yates brendan ables uh david wallace steve slade uh alexandra gerwell trevor hansen brandon germany jolie uh coil ashley vo owen harrington cindra opalski kristin hendler i think sydney vittori it's not right either no rarely is monica young monica young is doing something amazing when she has a good night uh at her job uh i'm not gonna give what doesn't matter it's fine she sends us money because wow people sweet people tipped very well and and it's hilarious. That's so sweet. Thank you, Monica. Julie Messina, Don Stewart, Casper J.D. Reid. I think that's right. All the letters are together.

I can't read that. Casper Jadreed. Jadreed. Mike McClure, Brandon Monahan, Tess Wyatt, Carlos Hernandez, Austin Duarte. Nope, that's D'Artes. Taryn Rines. Phil. Nope, that's Paris'Artes. Taryn Rines, Phil. Nope, that's Paris.

Grant, Laura Vanderboeven. Nope, that's Sarah Christensen. The James Gang, Dustin Queen, Anna Salato, David McGrath. Happy birthday. Shelly Trollian, Michelle Varenik, Josue Santos, Stephanie Loftus, Adrian with no last name, Tammy Schaum, Orion GH, Sarah Bradshaw, Eduardo Gonzalez, Michael Doheny, Dustin Paris, Perez, John with no last name, Jason Romich, Jen Scaturo, Diana Intiniica mcphail christine pate aaron smuck sharon wiley ali gary uh megan uh monis monis uh manisero what the fuck kaylee cannon uh amber sigman mike frank jeff blackwell laney hines michelle, Michelle Castel, Olson, Ashley Simpson, probably

not, Jill Zepp, Jamie Furch, Joshua Broussard, Wendy Ibarra, Gregory Elliott, Haley Rimmer, I'm sorry, Haley. We're eight. What do you want from us? Haley Rimmer and Nicole Loder. Okay. What the fuck is happening? Hillary Clark, Michelle with no last name.

Zach Zappara. Whitey Pooner. No. I swear to God. Yep, Poon. Amy Bishop. Daryl McDonald. Mish Ubner.

Mish Ubner. Usner. I don't know. Jamie Calder. Robert Jurcevich. Brad Merriman. Eric with no last name, and that's with an A. Eric with an A.

Tyler S., William Galloway, Kayla with no last name, David Francis, Avon Gale, Erica Popham, Corey Coward. What? Lindsay Lowe, Amy R., D.E. What is this? Lakia Benton, Carla Pearson, Lewis Lane cole ryman brendan with no last name elizabeth jordan frank is a zamparini taylor nope that's tanner mccutchen carrie meyer uh angela ankeny damn it hansen williams jay jay mazing anderson kyle gary it's laura hankies Kyle Garriott, Laura Hankies, Megan Alicebaugh, Cassie Tan, Gary Friedman, Rodney Lenzendorf, Mike Burris, David Flake, Jacqueline Curry, Dave Brown, Chantel with no last name, Joe Lynn Shaver, Jason Fesler, Jen McCoy, Alex Boniker, Julian Jordan, Kyle Kane, Dominic Cones, Jeff, nope, that's Phil Jeffs, Bill Turpin, Scott Harrigan, S-K-O-T, that's Scott, right? Yeah.

I think so. Christina Milano, Monica Muncy, Leslie Jordan, probably not. Sheena with no last name Monica Fitzgerald, Samantha Thompson Hazen Chandler, Delcey Blakely Caitlin Ward, Brian Dixon Larry Thomas, Gabrielle Moore Brad Hebert, Brian Foley Goat with no last name

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Brian Dixon, Ben Rosenthal Katie Lynn Nope, that's Katie Lee Jones Heidi Budler Stacey Benson Peyton with no last name Gareth Streiser Streis-

Streis- Streister- Manis Jesus Trisha Bentley I know Sound it out, Wisman Nicole Galvani

Galvagni What is that? Galvani? Is it Vaney? Christy Smith, Dan Lemley, Amelia Tedesco, Ryan Jay, Blair Fanning, Jackson Legge, Lori Bing, Mike Hunt. Sure. KB, Zoe Tomstone, John Daniel, your boy here, Damron, Caleb Cook, Jackie Hewitt, what is this, Ozma Brown, Alexis Walsh, nope, that's Alex, sorry, Jake Summers, Joey May, Dan Lindsey, Leola Gustavo, Matthew Aspar, As what, Asfar?

Asfar. Bryce Kerr, Kona Girl Gamer, Moses Gunner, Tracy Jacobs, Lady Beard, Summer Mossman, Jasper Wharton, Maddie Peck, Justin Murray, Randy Billings, Adam Holt, Rowdy McElfresh, Madison with no last name, Adam White, James Rich, Ricky Saunders, Brooke L., Jacqueline Thompson, Beth Bell, Matt Roost, Jack, nope, that's Rachel Volz, Laura with no last name, Angela Bingham, Henry Lorraine, Adam Allen-Murray, Jessica Undraw, Jennifer Kolstad-LaTosha with no last name, Trent Holliman, Kelly Corrington, Lucy Cruikshank. Michael Conway. Danny Summerfield. God damn it, I'm close.

Rebecca Mitchell. Darcy Moore. Lexa Donnelly. Austin Thiel. Maddie Decker. John Hagan. Adrian Wallace. Taisha Carson.

Noah Adams. Forza Memes. Jamie Partial. Partial. Partial. Rylan Neely. Courtney Hawkins. Dan Wodroska. I don't know. Avila, Jesse and Sarah, LaLaLaLeslie, Matt Lukasik, Lukasik, I don't know, Elizabeth Cosimero,

April Grant, Matthew Westmoreland, Westmolan, Miranda Krebs, Leilani Heal, Tiffany Smith, Amanda Journey, Logan Bream, Brendan O'Donnell, Haley Harwood, Patricia Winterbauer, hey, nope, that's Hannah Black, Amanda Baxter, and all of our patrons.

You guys are terrific. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, so much. Honestly, we cannot tell you how much we appreciate everything you do for us. You are our shadow lords. We're blown away by it. You are the shadow lords that we would happily fix your auras

at any point in time. Jimmy, what if somebody wanted to fix your aura? How could they get a hold of you? They can find me. They know. We've said it. You're out there somewhere. How many shows?

213? Yeah, I think it's 206. 206. I've told them enough, I think. And then 242 or something on Crime and Sports. So quite a bit. Damn near 500. You know where we are.

You people know how to look. You know how to look someone up on the goddamn internet. Go ahead and look us up and figure it out and you'll follow us on there you know where to find us lots of good stuff and content and all that shit there we are more than excited to uh keep coming back each and every week and we will keep doing that and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with W Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen

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