Small Town Murder - #207 - Mr. Hot Tub - Ross Township, Pennsylvania

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

This week, in Ross Township, Pennsylvania, a man with a tragic past finds a new life, only to have it taken away, once again? Or is he the one responsible? Things become a bit more clear when we find out that the terrible, and seemingly accidental death has actually happened before. In exactly the same way. Will he get away with it twice?? Along the way, we find out that Pittsburgh loves good food, that it's almost impossible to drown in the tub, without any water, and that you can sometimes get away with murder, once, but don't make it a pattern! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Ross Township, Pennsylvania, the tragic and seemingly accidental death of a prominent church woman with a high blood alcohol level leads the investigation to a different state and another accidentally dead hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay hey indeed jimmy yay indeed my name

is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of small town murder we have of course a wild episode today one of those where it's a there's a landmine under every uh you never know where it's gonna be it's a crazy episode as usual we have oh my goodness the last few weeks have been crazy and the next few weeks are crazy so buckle up everybody lot going on if you haven't done it yet please quick little house cleaning get on apple podcast the purple icon give us five stars it does help the show we don't know why we don't run apple so how would we know that so that helps a lot head over to shut up and give

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Make believe that we're all gathering together. That's what it is. I can't wait. The cameras, the audience, we're going to pretend we're in a theater're in a theater and get so fucking drunk let's play make believe everybody get drunken stoned with us and hang out it's gonna be a good time shut up and give me murder.com right now for that also get all your merchandise there tons of merch all different stuff up all the time so that's a lot of fun you got to do that. Patreon is cooking right now. So it's going good. Get on Patreon.

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Yes. which is a crazy murder story of a very prominent NFL quarterback. And then on this week for Small Town Murder, we have an absolutely wild murder in Michigan that you will root for the murder, which is a weird thing that we have. But rarely do we get a positive murder. And we might actually have found one here. So it's so much fun.

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That said, quick disclaimer. This is a comedy show. Yeah's it's not a it's this is it's not a crazy you know we're not we're not we're not trying to be dateline no it's a comedy show we're not journalists no but the thing is the stories are all true everything's true everything's very accurate we really take painstaking you know efforts to make sure labors to make sure the story is 100 accurate but there's comedy yeah because we're comedians number one and stuff is when you get a situation like a murder that people find themselves in it's crazy weird stuff weird stuff happens and you know what some of it's

funny so that's not our fault what we not like we're you know we're not going to sit here and go and then the head was cut from the body that's that's a little dark yeah let's we can lighten that up a little bit and we're not going to be like ha ha the head got cut off from the body either so there's a middle ground where you can joke about the stuff around and then go oh my god there's a head came right off the body yeah that's horrible that's how normal people would look at a murder sure that's how we're doing it we go out of our way to make sure not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes tell me more but we're not scum there it is i mean that's how it works here so uh if that doesn't sound good to you crime and comedy should never ever go together in your mind

then maybe this isn't for you goodness it might be and you might be you know thinking the wrong thing but maybe it's not so don't complain later if that's the case but for the rest of us that want to have a sure good time and hear about a wild story i think it's time to sit back yeah clear the old lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy all right let's go on a trip shall we i think we we need to to buckle up here and go on a trip man we're not we're not going very far this week no it's weird the next. The next few weeks, we're going to be, we got Hawaii lined up. Oh, shit.

It's been like two years since we've been, three years since we've done Hawaii. Have we only done one? One Hawaii episode. With the rolled over 4Runner Bronco Jeep? There's not a lot. It's tiny over there, and it's not a lot of small towns

because it's just mainly a couple of, you know, it's hard to find stuff. So it's, yeah, we're going to Hawaii. We got everywhere. texas we're going new york we're going all over the place here back in maine which we haven't been to in a long time but here we're going to pennsylvania right right next door to jersey pretty much so connected to it we're going to ross township pennsylvania oh which is on the other side of the state. So it is hours away from the last episode. James, weren't we in goddamn Oregon or Washington last week? Washington, yeah. Oh, that's right.

New Jersey and then Washington and back. I am a week behind. I'm still on the disappeared baby ship. Catch up! That's why I picked Pennsylvania this week, because it's not next door. I'm like, yeah, I guess so. It's a way away. This is southwestern Pennsylvaniasylvania it's in the

it's the pittsburgh suburbs yeah it's 15 minutes to downtown pittsburgh really and if you know how pittsburgh set up as we do because we went there basically pittsburgh itself the city proper is kind of in the middle and then it's in like a weird little valley yeah everything around it's like through the hills through a mountain and over a bridge to get to Pittsburgh. There's rivers everywhere. That's what I mean. So the suburbs of Pittsburgh are not, they're the suburbs. They're not Pittsburgh because they're separated by a mountain and a river.

And it's not just all kind of connected. You know what I mean? So it's a good way to look at it. 15 minutes to downtown Pittsburgh, but you're going to have to go through a mountain and over a bridge to get there and through the woods. Five hours to Philly. Okay. If you're lucky, as we know, we took that trip. Unless you miss an exit.

And then it's a good six, six and a half hours if you do that because not a lot of exits on that road. You're going to go 50 miles out of the way. Not a lot of exits. 25 each way. And you see roads and you're like, how are people getting on those roads? Why can't I use it?

Why can't I get there? That's not fair. That's all the way. I see it. you're like how are people getting on those roads why can't i use it why can't i get that's not fair it's all the way i see it i see it damn it it's about three hours to newville pennsylvania which was our last pennsylvania episode episode 175 so uh this is in allegheny county 14 square miles the town is yeah no it's a pretty decent sized town uh motto here uh not surprising go stealers is the town motto yeah or this is the one where that's just like what's written on the signs but if you go there it's more uh quote ben roethlisberger didn't touch those women that's the the town slogan and swan we trust that's it yeah so that. So that's, I don't know. I mean, you know, they have their opinions. Yeah. History of this town.

Early settlers here. There was a lot of problems with Native Americans in this area because they came in and this is good, kind of fertile area. And when people try to move in, you know, the other people don't really, the people who already have the land might be upset that you are taking it. Things are going well here. So apparently, many of the Native Americans, many of the whole group there, did not agree with their chief's treaty with George Washington in 1784. Their chief's name is Chief Corn Planter.

Is that real? That is his real name, Chief Corn Planter. Right on the nose. I mean, it's yeah yeah you wanted something to be straight up like that you know exactly what he does there's no mystery is that his name or is no nuance it's both that's what i mean it's wonderful treaty with george washington there so uh apparently for ross township this was the hunting grounds their hunting grounds and then they the chief kind of gave it away.

Yeah. It's like, oh, well, now where the fuck are we supposed to hunt? So that's not a good thing. And apparently about in 1794, people kind of white people came and settled the area here. And the first group that came were chased out by a group of indians of course yep and then uh the the uh this guy's sons david and casper jr their god the reels are their last name they became the first white men born north of pittsburgh the real reels the real reels yeah you know the you know the site you know yeah consignment luxury items this place is fascinating so uh yeah uh in 1809 a guy named john mcknight along with 30 other residents of

pine township petitioned the courts of allegheny for the formation of a new township and they got ross township so there you go uh they named it after some guy named james ross who i've never heard of but who gives a shit bunch of extra large perry ellis everywhere he was a he was a an attorney there okay yeah you know it works so anyway uh he represented western pennsylvania in the convention to ratify pennsylvania as a state so they were like fine now uh this is the setting of uh a huge prison escape the story yeah i love it in 1902 katherine soffel who was the wife of the warden of the Allegheny Jail. This is fucking amazing. Helped the Biddle brothers, who she fell in love

with, escape. Oh, no. The wife of the warden fell in love with two prisoners and helped them escape. This is salacious. Isn't this great? I love it. This is awesome. Dirty. This is a great town history right here. Fucking filthy. Both of them. Yeah, two. That's what I mean. Imagine that. I want them both out. I need two Biddles.

Yeah, two. She's getting Eiffel Biddled. This is a Biddle Tower need two Bittles. Yeah, two. She's getting Eiffel Bittled. This is a Biddle Tower. This is incredible. This is not good. So it was during the escape. Of course, they picked a blinding snowstorm to have this escape in. Yeah, brilliant.

Yeah, they found themselves on Perrysville Plank Road looking for shelter and something to eat. And they had nowhere else to stay. road looking for shelter and something to eat and they had nowhere else to stay so they broke into the schoolhouse and uh you know they the the stove was still warm from the classes when they broke in there so they stayed there they end up traveling up the road to a hotel where they got some ham sandwiches and a pint of whiskey uh so they didn't have as enough money though so the one escapee pulled out a woman's pocketbook and paid for them which is an odd sight in 1902 yeah not a lot of that going on uh he didn't have enough room in his coat so he pulled his gun out in front of the bartender and then uh the so the guy saw that and remembered

him from that obviously and put two and two together they tried to steal horses and a buggy and all sorts of shit and uh they ended up finding an open barn where they kind of hung out there and then they ended up they were tracked like the next day how did the warden's wife not put more thought into this escape it sounds like they were fucked every step of the way yes i feel like this is like 1902 and the men were like we'll take care of this and she was like okay great and then they planned this and she was like i feel like i could have done better yeah on the outside we could certainly at least use a forecast this is for the weather all this through no no transportation nobody looked at the farmer's almanac nobody looked at anything or the clouds yeah this might not be the best maybe tomorrow those clouds are paper white i feel like things are gonna that's

gonna snow that's gonna snow it's gonna snow that looks bad you can smell it yeah you know it's close in the air we have reviews of this town here uh they're mostly pretty good actually people seem to like this place i picked a bunch of average three-star reviews uh here's three stars the area is very quiet the toughest uh the toughest thing growing up was that there was not many kids on my street nor was the nearby pool very affordable you got a nearby pool that's very that's a very personal thing there wasn't a lot of kids on my street well the town sucks then obviously because you lived on a street with older people i don't know they're expensive and nobody likes me that's what that guy just that's what it was we couldn't afford a pool and i didn't have any friends to be i mean even if you did you

couldn't afford to go in the pool with them anyway so what's the difference so three stars just real simple it's been getting worse over the years okay watch out for that uh three stars everyone is isolated and there isn't much communal communication wow my word that's okay why do you describe it that way could have just said it's not a lot of people talk to hard to socialize here that's that would have been one way to put it okay three stars bellevue does have a bit of a drug problem oh boy these sort of activities tend to go down around the skate park area and the high schools where delinquent teens sell drugs to one another yeah not the teenagers who cares they're selling them to each other the teenagers are doing drugs the

delinquent ones not the teenagers by a skate park they're doing drugs and getting on skateboards oh no god no not that it is pretty fascinating that that we, as a society, embraced skate parks. And everybody knows that that's what happens at them. And we've just allotted a little area for those people to go to. That's where you do, yes. That's good. And actually, the ones actually skating are not on drugs a lot. It's hard to skate when you're fucked up. It really is.

It's not that easy. Stoned, you can do it. A little stoned, you can do it. But otherwise, you wouldn't want to be all strung out on something trying to skate. It's not. My kids love to go to them. And there's a thick, hazy, skunk-smelly cloud over the skate park all night long. It's good for it.

It's a creative thing. That's what you do. You need to do it. Get those kids on some heavy stuff when they go down there. This is good that we gave them a place to be. If you don't like that, well, don't go to the skate park. That's what I'm saying. Don't do that.

They're the teenagers. They're trying. Okay, teenagers on drugs to avoid adults. That's the other thing. They're hiding in the woods by the skate park. They don't want to be around you any more than you want them to be around you. Exactly. It's perfect.

It's almost, that's how you get rid of teenagers. You give them drugs and then they go away and do things. And something to do. Like other people's kids that you don't want around. Be like, here's some drugs. Go in the woods. That's what you get rid of teenagers. You give them drugs, and then they go away and do things. And something to do. Like other people's kids that you don't want around. Be like, here's some drugs. Go in the woods. That's what you should do. Here, take these drugs and go in the woods and leave us the fuck alone.

I'm going to keep that in mind. There you go. If you ever see kids around your neighborhood bothering you. See if that works out. Here, kid. Here's a nickel bag. Here's a couple of pre-rolls. Just go in the woods and have fun with it.

So actually, no. No pre-rolls. No. You have to learn. Yeah. Teach teach them a craft figure it out do your apprenticeship yeah so then they go on to say this crew tends to stick to themselves however and the community is not really affected in the grand scheme of things then why fucking mention it yeah who cares obesity is definitely a bit of a problem wow welcome to p to Pittsburgh. Drug-addled kids and fat people. Yeah, I was going to say, you're in Pittsburgh.

I've been there. By the way, we love Pittsburgh. It's great. I love Pittsburgh. It's unbelievable. Like, it's one of my favorite cities. Truly. I don't know what it is about it.

Certainly top ten. Unbelievable. Yeah, especially to go to. The people are awesome. It's really kind of beautiful of a place, too. Like, it's gorgeous with the hills, and it's nice. It's a bit more yellow and black than I wanted, but it's it's really kind of beautiful of a place too like it's gorgeous with the hills and it's nice it's a bit more yellow and black than i want it there's fine and uh yeah you guys especially for a bronco you guys really really embrace it but i mean fuck and it feels because

it feels like it's its own little like enclave yeah from the world pittsburgh because they've really separated themselves from what pennsylvania is yeah well because you have to like enter it through that through those mountains and through those bridges. So it feels like you're going, and the food is so good, and the people are cool. Oh, God. My bartender in my hotel was the cool. I didn't want to leave the hotel. I don't think I did anything in Pittsburgh except for drink and eat there.

I had a great restaurant in the hotel. It was like an old school hockey bar in the hotel. It was awesome. And the waitress was telling us what good wings bar oh that's right in the hotel like it was awesome and like the waitress was telling us what good wings they had there make their own sauce and like this place is amazing yeah i love pittsburgh so but yes one thing though there's a lot of uh it's a hearty town yeah it's a heart the food is hearty and and it's cold right so you pack a couple extra on there yeah and you're just wearing Steelers park anyway, so what's the difference? You want to endure the winter, you got to get it on.

Exactly. So obesity is definitely a bit of a problem as there isn't really access to gyms within Bellevue. They seem to live in Bellevue. Although use of the fitness trails and local parks is solving this issue. Yeah, there's no shortage of outside in Pennsylvania. That's one thing. There's a whole lot of that.

There it is, everybody. Look at it. All sorts of outside in Pennsylvania. That's one thing. There's a whole lot of that. There it is, everybody. Look at it. All sorts of outside. You betcha. The hospital within the area is small but quick, efficient, and effective for pressing matters, although most people tend to make the trip downtown to other emergency rooms or MedExpress if medical attention isn't needed immediately. They really got into the— They really did.

Wow. They broke it down. Did they have, like, notes? I feel the they broke it down did they have like a like notes like i feel like they did and then they wrote their review based on their notes okay we have social drug problem they did a rough draft before they nailed this thing out let's get into the health let's get into the health of the city and into that uh that's good okay very thorough very thorough the hospitals well we need to get into infrastructure and they're going to want to know that. So population of this town, it's grown pretty steadily.

Went up after World War II is when it really shot up between 1950, 1960. There's a lot of steel mills. Yeah. Shit was going on. Places to work here. And it stayed pretty solid. And it's kind of dropped down since, like, 1990 a little bit. But there are still 30,869 people in this area.

Wow. Down 8% since 1990. Okay. And a few more females than males. I don't know if the males have died in the mills. Honestly, yeah. That's what's happened. They've fallen into a, you know, that vat of molten.

Molten steel. You know, whatever that is. That glowing. Yeah. That glowing. That hot shit. That's the one. There's a guy stirring with, like, a You know, whatever that is. That glowing. Yeah. That glowing. That hot shit. That's the one where there's a guy stirring with a big pot, like a giant witch ladle. Whatever's in there, they pull it out with very long, sharp tongs.

Yeah, they twist it around. The guy fell in there, I feel like. A couple of them. I'm sure a few. Downs the population a bit. The median age here, 44.4, which is a little bit older. About seven years older than normal. All the over 60-year-old demographics are high.

A lot of old people here, not as many young people. Married population's higher. It's the burbs. This is what you're going to get, 55% married, everything like that. Less people that are single and with no children and more people that are with children, obviously, if they're married. So race of this town, it's a pretty monochromatic kind of town here. It's very Pittsburgh, yeah. Well, 90.9%, so 91% white.

That's a lot. It's pretty white. It's heavy. 2.3% black, which is way less than the 12% norm in the country here. 3.7% Asian, so that's close to the 5% norm. And 1.6% Hispanic, which is very low. Yeah. Very low.

Yeah, for sure. I don't know what's up with that, but yeah, that's very low. Religious, over 60% of the people here are religious, which is a lot, honestly, for the Northeast. But it's Pennsylvania. Yeah, and you're going to get a lot of Catholics there. A lot of Catholics. 38.5% Catholic. Holy.

Catholics are, everybody, the Baptists of the North. Of the North. Of the North. Or of Western Pennsylvania, however you want to do it. However you want to do it. There are a couple of Methodists. You got a Pentecostal or two over there. Yankee Baptist. You know how it goes.

1.4% Jewish. What? Ha-ba, na-gi-la, ha-ba, na-gi-la, ha-ba, na-gi-la, ha-ba. James doesn't know the words. Hey. Yay. We got to sing our song. We got to sing.

Yeah. All right. And let's see here what else we got here. The economy goes the unemployment rate is kind of normal with the rest of the country as it goes right now yeah but we haven't really who knows what it is we don't know yeah exactly nobody wants to say for sure we're like oh shit it's gonna be scary it'd be scary to find out the real number at this point point in time yeah it's a lot more than three i think at this point in time. Oh, boy. It's a lot more than three, I think, at this point.

So median household income here is high. It's about $68,500, which is normally about $57,500. So decent, actually. And the cost of living, 100 is average. Here it's 95. Very average. So high salaries and low cost of living. Not bad.

Housing's an 83. How about this? Median home cost $193,300. 15 minutes from living. Not bad. Housing's an 83. How about this? Median home cost, $193,300. 15 minutes from Pittsburgh. Not bad. That's great. This is good stuff, man. Not bad at all.

I found, well, you know what? If you want to be just a bridge away from the lovely Pittsburgh, we have for you the Ross Township, Pennsylvania Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here, that seems to be a little pricey, is about $1,095, which is actually under the average. It kind of fits in with the- It's about 93 away from it. That's what I mean. It's about that.

I found a lot. So you want to build a house. Just land. In a neighborhood. It's like a half acre lot. Yeah. You can build a nice house on. You don't buy it.

They're making a cemetery out of it. They're going to do it. They're going to cram it right in there. 24,500 bucks. For what? Half acre in a neighborhood. That's unbelievable. Not even like in the middle of nowhere.

It's like in some other nice houses. Unreal. Nice spot. Looks like somebody had a big lot. They broke it up. Sure. They're going to sell half nowhere. It's in some other nice houses. Unreal. Nice spot. It looks like somebody had a big lot. They broke it up. Sure. They're going to sell half of it, basically. That was their storage lot.

Yeah, or whatever. They just had a bigger... Somebody bought a double lot, and I want some room, and now they don't. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,254-square-foot house. It looks very flammable, is the best way to put it. Lots of wood on the front. Wood that looks dry. It looks very flammable is the best way to put it. Lots of wood on the front? Wood that looks dry. It looks crispy.

It looks like you are one flicked match away from... A lot of shake. I don't like it. I'm a little worried about it. It's $121,431 and it does not include fire insurance, which I'm sure you'd want, definitely. Then I found a three-bedroom, three-bath, 1,416 square foot house. It's nice on the inside, but it's fucking yellow and weird. I don't know if it's like a Steeler theme house.

Who knows if the inside's all black. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. But $197,405. So it's affordable compared to that. That's what I mean. Compared to the rest of the country yeah it's pretty goddamn affordable for to live in a decent suburb of a nice city so not bad uh things to do here obviously uh one i mean you're gonna go to pittsburgh sports

that's i mean let's be honest it's just a bridge away it's right there you have pittsburgh is a very good sports town yeah all sorts of shit another thing to do stare at the bridges sure we have to i do it yeah so many bridges in pittsburgh if you've never been there they're famous for it yeah i can't remember how many there is they somebody told there was a number yeah it's like 208 it's some ridiculous there is a it's every 15 feet yeah it's like every street if you've ever played like sim city when you're a kid or something like in in school or whatever if there was water you make streets that go to it you don't extend every street over the water right because you're like oh that's stupid

there's like 95 bridges like you know let's condense that and make a highway going nope they said that's every street gets a bridge. It's on bridge. And you know, twist that fucking road until it hits water. That's what we're going to do. And then put a bridge on it. Until it hits water. Yeah, and then put a bridge on it. 446 goddamn bridges. I was going to say 296.

It's ridiculous. Yeah, 446. And you can look just down the river and just bridge, bridge, bridge, bridge. You're like, what is going on here? How do you maintain all these? They're not the same. No. They're all different. Built differently. Yeah, you're like, what going on here how do you maintain all these they're not the same no they're all different so you built it built differently yeah you're like what is happening in this town

but it gives it its personality and where you like it but it's just a strange very weird thing it's the first thing you notice when you go in you're like what is up with the are those all operational right it's like old bridges you've abandoned over time and just left up and built new ones are they closed off at the at the entrance yeah what is this i mean do you with a car would just jump off into the river if you tried to go over it uh another thing here is ross township community days hell yeah oh boy they're uh they're hosting their uh ross township classic car cruise all right boy i'm into that food and drinks and singing and dancing too not that oh yeah skip that bunch of bunch of suburban pittsburgh guys singing and dancing in the streets that's a bunch of white people that can't dance heavy set white people dancing in the streets that's really what it's a

lot of uh bent elbows yeah just a little bit of shoulder shrugging fists up in the air and polka music going on and on. That's what's going to be going there, I feel like. One fist at a time. Yeah, one fist at a time. And then slowly because you don't want to spill your beer. Right. That's the other thing.

Or pull a muscle. Yeah. You have a cheese product in one hand and something with melted cheese and then you have a beer in the other. And something very wet and cold in the other. So you're going to have to be slow with it. very wet and cold in the other so you're gonna have to be slow with it so and then come listen to your favorite oldies music and djs featuring the doo-wop band yeah uh the doo-wop oh i'm sorry that's not their name i thought that was their name i was like that's pretty funny what they do that's pretty lame uh no the bloomfield boys yeah the bloomfield. That name could use some work. That sounds...

Are they like the pride of Pittsburgh or something? Do they matter? The pride of Bloomfield, probably. Either that or their last name is Bloomfield. Yeah, all three of them. One or the other. They might be from... That sounds like a suburb of Pittsburgh.

You know, out in Bloomfield. Yeah. That's where I'm from. Sounds like a suburb of Pittsburgh. You know, out in Bloomfield. Yeah. There, you know. Yeah.

That's where I'm from. Telling someone online at the urinal at a Steelers game. I'm from out there in Bloomfield. I'm from, we drove in from Bloomfield. Yeah. So, crime rate in this town. What we're interested in here. Property crime is about average. Nothing crazy.

Okay. Just like a normal place uh violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is under half so it's a safe a lot of suburbs are like that you get you get your your drug addled skate park teenagers that are gonna you know spray paint a couple of things sure and then you get your uh nobody's actually killing each other and 44 year old uh middle of the road worried about the 401k. Exactly. People that aren't doing anything wrong.

Except dancing in the street. Except poorly. Terribly. Poorly dancing. The worst ways. In a bad way. That said. Okay.

Let's talk about a murder in this little idyllic town. It sounds nice. It sounds nice. I really like it. It looks nice, nice too from the pictures i saw looks decent looks like a decent place to live uh now this murder though is a not not very decent not the reason to be there and also not the reason to be there well let's start in 1994 okay shall we let's start in the mid 90s good time to be alive 94 was fun because there's

a lot of crazy weird shit going on yeah like this is a time when like it's pre-internet like this is barely internet right like aol chat rooms and shit but you could watch oj simpson be chased by police for two fucking hours on live television like that's what was going on in 1994 so it was a very strange time it's the beginning of our arrogance really because it we they just wrapped up the gulf war with like nary a life loss absolutely and it was just a huge like americans we all got huge dicks and it was like well the berlin wallet yeah russia bell it's like wow we have no worries we're the best and and and all we got to worry about is in-house no we were like the cocaine hippos yeah Do you know about them?

You told me about them. Pablo Escobar bought these hippos for a zoo back in the day and imported them. And then when he got busted, the government took over all his shit. And they just let these hippos go. And he had like four hippos. And there are no predators for them or anything where they are now. So they're just reproducing like fucking crazy. Unbelievable.

That's what's going on. So yeah, cocaine hippos. Just running wild. That's Americans. That's Americans. In 1994. Exactly. There's no natural predators.

So they can just go crazy and breed. Yeah. And really put. No forethought. Put flags all over everything. Yeah, exactly. And just have a good time. So yeah, that's what ended up happening.

And to 94, let's start in Ross Township, shall we? We'll talk about a nice couple here in Ross Township here. Let's talk about Tim Bozkowski. Sounds like that's a good Pittsburgh name. Very Pittsburgh. Bozkowski here. I think I'm saying it right. B-O-C-Z-K-O-W-S-K-E.

Might be Botchkowski. Botchkowski. Botch or Boz? Listen, you're talking to the wrong guy for this information. That's a tough one. I don't know, man. We're going with Bozkowski, but it could be Botchkowski. Or Botchkowski.

I mean, this could go either way because people also will make their names simpler. Yeah. Like my last name, say it, Petrogallo, but that's only because we tried will make their name simpler yeah like my last name you say it petra gallo but that's only because we tried to make it simpler for everybody because it's pietra gallo and let's not go crazy you know what i mean let's just don't worry about that extra syllable unless calm down forgiveness exactly that's that's kind of how we're like relax it's one of those deals so let's call him buzz kowski here so the buzz will say it might be that too just because that that's a great name that sounds cool anyway yeah so uh tim tim he's born

in 1955 okay so you know 39 years old at this point in time i guess you'd say yeah or yeah 39 39 yeah and then he is married wow almost couldn't do math for a moment there. He's married at this moment to Marianne Fullerton Buskowski. Okay. Okay. She's 35. Marianne is. They were married the year before, 1993. Great.

Wait a while. Yeah. Well, for her, yes. But for him, he's had a kind of a tragic past. Oh? Which is tough. And that's one of the things that marianne is a very sweet person as we'll talk about it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our

podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect

the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and add free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I

understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media will have to come to the conclusion that I killed or on Apple Podcasts. revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts here uh now they got married in 1993 tim is a denture maker oh which is one of the weirdest fucking things i've ever heard in my life it's the coolest thing it's cool but it's also a really really really weird creepy thing to do it takes a specific person it takes a real and i get it it's a one people need dentures and it's a wonderful thing but it also is creepy as fuck it's creepy as fuck i just picture some weird guy sitting in a room being like i like teeth and like you know what i mean

i like making teeth like he makes a girl on twitter or on instagram who does it it's it's incredible oh it's incredible but again she would probably tell you right away i'm definitely a weird person i'm different and it's weird less weird if a woman's doing it yeah i don't picture her in a room going i'm gonna make a person because i feel like a guy's like well if i can make a tooth i can make a vagina you know what i mean i can make a butthole i can make a butthole i know i can and then it's gross i can make then you're know what i mean i can make a butthole i can make a butthole i know i can and then it's gross i can make then you're gonna have they're gonna be like making tiny like kid robot people or some shit with weird gums are just made out of a gelatinous form i'll bet i

can make it if i can make a tooth i can do anything that's what i feel like yeah i'm a god i can make teeth just creeps me out in a room just oh she is all about teeth it is fascinating so i love i love her it's so good i mean yeah so that's what he does for a living and he's only been doing that for a couple of years apparently he before that he did something else but uh he's kind of started a new life and if you find out what's gone on you would understand why he would want to start a new life and he kind of has to start a new life but marianne is a religious instructor at the roman catholic church in town the nativity roman catholic church in ross township and uh she is uh very much into church things she does all sorts of church shit she works at the church they met at a catholic singles

function oh jesus so this is that a lot of kids it's a catholic thing over here you know what i mean they're meeting at a at a dance there you know the catholic dance they got so they're going down there and uh you know so he's a denture maker she works at the church and they they end up getting married uh she also uh is a ccd teacher as well what is that ccd is uh it's funny because we mentioned it a few weeks ago. Did we? It's what you have to do before communion

in Catholic Church. yeah, yeah, yeah. CCD, but a few weeks ago as we were saying it, I was ranting about something

and I said CDC by mistake. Oh. And some, like three people tweeted at me it's CCD and I'm like, yeah, no shit.

I fucking, obviously I knew what the fuck I was talking about. It was a matter of, we've heard the words, the letters CDC said so much in the last goddamn year that all it exists now. So anyway, CCD teacher, which I know you first of all, it's a voluntary post and you have

to go like, you know, every goddamn Tuesday and Thursday or Wednesday night or whatever and teach a bunch of shithead little kids, basically shithead little Italian kids that don't want to be there. Yeah. You have to teach them shit. So it's a, my stepmother used to be a CCD teacher. So that's how I know you have to be. She's like a Disney character. She's like the nicest person in the world.

So you have to be a nice person to want to do this, want to deal with other people's kids for free. Right. That's all you're dealing with. There's no other adults to do anything. And you're doing it in a religious way yeah so it's extra frustrating they're like nine yeah they don't want anything to do with this gather a group of nine-year-old guineas and fucking tell them about god for a while tell them about the lamb they're like shut the fuck up there i'm telling you it's awful yeah italian kids are the worst my dad beat my mom

with the belt last night so what do you want to tell me what do you want to tell me about god is that right all right yeah jesus and whatever can i get that little medal you get with communion let me get that little medallion thing it's my it's like the it's my first drift that's what it's the first my first my first gaudy jewelry italian kid set is what you get perfect we all got one god italian kids were the worst i remember in like in like middle school looking around and being like it's classes that were extra bad where like the teacher would cry we had a class where the guy just broke down he just broke down and sat down at his desk and put his head in his hands and he just couldn't take it anymore

and this is while like erasers bounced off him and someone shot him with a water gun like it was like a horrible comedy scene and this poor man just broke down a grown man just lost it he couldn't take it anymore and i looked around and there was like 26 kids in the class and like 20 of them were italian and they were all the ones that were tearing shit up i'm like we are awful people ruining we're fucking ruining everything and they're hey look at him look at him he's showing weakness throw something at him this fuck he's being a pussy we broke him god hey we broke him all right finally hey i don't know that was the goal yeah to break this part man and he broke my senior year we had lou it was a security guard we are our history teacher quit or was fired or

whatever reason left so they just filled in with lou until yeah until they got a new teacher they never got a new teacher i'm fucking lou so lou just comes in and sits down and just starts telling us about american history and we just all turned our backs to him and just started having our own conversation we're not listening to we all failed but what that we were gonna fail anyway how old were you yeah okay the senior year all right so we were 12 this was seventh grade different different thing but yeah this that's very irresponsible at 18 years old we had what the the smart girl in the class i wasn't even in school still by then so never mind he wrote a letter to the principal about how ineffective this class i would like to bring to your attention the ineffectiveness of lou to whom it may concern yeah lou while not being a certified educator

he has a walkie talkie on his shirt right now. This is a distinct disadvantage. When we were learning about the first Continental Congress and his walkie-talkie went off saying there's a clogged bathroom in the second story girl's bathroom. Clogged toilet bowl. So that ruined class. Fucked it all up for us. Really disrupted. I wish I could go back in time and just beat the living shit out of me. I really do. We all deserve that.

I really do. You should have just gone to the skate shit out of me. I really do. Yeah, we all deserve an answer. I really do. You should have just gone to the skate park and done drugs. This may not exist, but I wish I'd have gone back and just been like, you're going to ruin Lou's fucking day? Don't be a dick to Lou. Why are you being so- Do you think Lou wants to be here? He doesn't want-

You don't want to be here? Lou wants to go the fuck home. Either Lou definitely doesn't want to be here, or Lou's real excited because this is Lou's shot. Either way. Lou's like a minor leaguer who got called up and he's like, I could do this. If I hit 300, they might keep me. doesn't want to be here or lose real excited because this is lose shot either way they'll lose like a minor leaguer who got called up and he's like i could do this if i hit 300 they might keep me poor lou i don't even know what his last name was we never gave him the dignity and respect

of finding out every janitor i ever had fucking lou every janitor security guard oh that's even worse that's even worse at least the janitor like clean stuff the security guards look at he's fucking standing there as a kid you look at standing as you get paid for that look at this fucking guy i don't think lou did much standing trying to stop us from smoking weed go away he's a heavy set chubby round oh good so you could outrun him that's all that you needed he had a golf cart that's how he caught us that's fucking hilarious poor lou see we had these security guards but in charge of them were these old ladies that were like it was so weird like the hierarchy was like old lady lunch

monitors in charge of security guards so i made friends with the old lady lunch monitors i made friends with them so then nobody was allowed to bother me yeah it was fucking great yeah you had to get a get to scam it the right way i wish we i would have known that's what you do i was just a dick to everybody. I did that, and then I could go smoke weed and shit. Great. I would literally tell them, like, I'm going to be around the corner, so no one should be there for a little while, right?

She'd be like, yeah, go ahead. Three, four? She'd go, yeah, go ahead. And I'd go, thank you. Go around. That's what you do. Unbelievable. So you don't get in trouble.

So anyway, one of her friends said about Marianne here, quote, anywhere she was needed, she was willing to help, especially where her kids were involved. She's very much. Everybody says she's just a nice, sweet person will help anybody. Another friend said, quote, when a couple celebrates their first anniversary as a family instead of as a couple that says something about them. They were very close, them and their children. Not even their children, Tim's children. Not hers. No, Tim has three children, 13 years old, 10 years old, and nine years old.

Wow. So that's a lot. That's a ready-made family. Ready-made family, but also ready-made attitudes. Oh, teenagers. Oh, by the way, their mom died. mom died oh no their mom died in 1990 how many times do they have the opportunity to say you're not my mom yeah well you're not my mom and you have to be sensitive because her mom's dead yeah you know you can't be like well yeah because your mom's out whoring around in reno

with you know whatever the hell yeah your mom broke the biddle brothers out of prison because she lives in love with them of course yeah that's a yum all you have that's not how it works diddle diddle that's a bad thing so uh she though marianne is so wants them to be a family and is so you know accepting of them and loving of them she adopts them within the first year amazing of them being married yeah they celebrate their first anniversary like the friend said as a family with their friends and the kids and you know as a this is our family our first anniversary of our family so it's very much a family type of thing here and he's making teeth in the basement like

a weirdo yeah i don't know where he's making teeth but i just picture him in the basement with one really bright light on and like those goggle things that you know it's just like real close the butthole's next all i need is teeth and a butthole and then it's real a butthole looks very similar to the top of a molar i can do it so his first wife uh his first wife died like we said and uh nobody really because i mean when someone's young and they have three kids and their wife died you don't really press that much on them as far as like so exactly what happened now was this uh you don't really get into that because it's uncomfortable and you feel like he's probably sad about it i would imagine you know what i'm saying it's hey you don't poke and prod and you let him divulge it but you also i mean what does it matter

you know what i mean yeah how'd she die i don't mean the wife dead i mean the rest of the exact that's the other thing yeah why would you bow yeah Yeah. Obviously, it's not it's not a happy, a positive thing. Oh, it was great. Actually, it was wonderful. She is in her 30s. Yeah. She's probably not good. She was she was 35.

Good God. That's a that's far too young. Far too young. Thirty five. Three young children. And so, yeah, you don't want to press too much. I've unless it's something obvious, obviously, like I had a I have a knew in high school, and I saw, God, this was the most horrible thing. He had two little kids, and they were pregnant with a third, and his wife died in childbirth with a third kid.

Kid was fine. Wife died. So now he's got. Oh, my. Yeah. He can't breastfeed. He had to go on. This is going to be a nightmare.

With two small kids and a newborn baby and to raise them with your wife i mean imagine i can't even know what the hell this guy went through i was like oh my god this is the most that's tragic shit right there and uh so that you know this guy is kind of in that same boat except it wasn't a newborn obviously but still it's it's rough and you wouldn't 35 it's a goddamn tragedy no matter how you shake yeah i think she was 32 the one i knew good lord whoa it was wild so they don't know they all they know is that uh you know she had like a some kind of weird medical anomaly death they don't know if it's a heart attack they don't know if she had like or something yeah like an

act because she was in the tub so they were like would she have an aneurysm and drown there's that sort of thing so it was one of those type of medical problems here uh but didn't matter anyway uh tim though he seems to have come around and come back he's married her married marianne and also he's doing very well as a denture maker he's doing makes a lot of money sure actually does a really good you know those shits are expensive yeah he makes a great living and uh you know obviously his his butthole making business on the side is booming a big it's a big boon to the to the family's accounts so he's doing well and then they meet over here at the catholic function so that seems you know everybody seems happy and legit and everything like that everything seems happy um the her parents marianne's parents

said they felt really sorry for tim at first because they you know he's the lone guy with these three little kids and a dead wife and they felt terrible for him but then they they realized that he was a nice guy and they liked him for more than just sympathy after a while here now they've only been together they've been married about 17 months in 1994. And the months kind of toward the end of the year, toward the end of 1994, Tim starts telling people that Marianne is drinking a lot and that she's an alcoholic and things like that, which is odd because her friends don't really see't really see that she's never she's not really a big drinker her friends always say they've that they've known her for 20 years they've like

rarely seen her tipsy even oh you don't know though jim she gets home and then from eight to midnight it's just it's pounded yeah it's you never know but i mean her friends are like that's weird we never see her shit face she gets home gets into the cooking sherry she's like she's guzzling like red wine he's hammering it that's so funny i just pictured her in the kitchen taking nips off both hands around it yeah well her husband's in the fucking basement trying to make a butthole it's a really weird it's a really weird house going on whole prints on molars all night yeah no that's man i'm gonna do it so you know they ended up uh they they he wanted to he it got to the point where he started telling people that

she needs like an intervention for her alcohol like it's a big deal she he starts telling her church friends that uh you know will you join me to tell her that you know blah blah blah all this type of shit i need a team yeah i need like a team and it's really weird now at this point um they said that she she drank socially maybe but you know that's about it um she said that uh she marianne wants another child she wants a child of her own she doesn't have any kids it's got the three kids they adopted but she adopted his kids but she wants her own baby of course and so uh you know she's 35 too so she's she's pushing the upper end of it so she you know biological clock gets ticking here and she's got uh you know the a family and a home and

an opportunity to do this and they have the money to do it. So she's like, why not? So that's how that works. Now, her friend, when he's asking her friends to do an intervention, one of her friends says that she didn't think it was necessary, but she would go to support her friend, just whatever. But she said, I've never seen her like that drunk. I don't know what you're talking about but then there's a a nun oh sister patricia oh boy what does she have to say sister pat here oh boy she says uh she is with the order

of the sisters of divine providence convents fun lady yeah that's a party lady she is meryl streep from doubt she goes down to the skate park yeah smokes weed with the kids she heard about pedophilia and just thinks everybody does it now that's what they do they're dirty penises i see you with your penis making buttholes in your basement i know what's going on down there that movie is fucking uncomfortable oh yeah that is uncomfortable she says that uh she and other choir members have smelled alcohol on marianne's breath during choir practice now if i had to go to church choir practice you bet your ass i'd be drinking beforehand too might be a make a little more fun seems like the way to do it yeah because you're not you're not going to like you operate heavy equipment or do math or anything you're going to fucking sing and have a good time so people like to drink when they dance so why not drink when

they sing i see karaoke you would break into like some word in the song would remind you of another song yeah melody hits just right and then you just hit the remix button and then shorty got low i would i would i would be another song you know i try to overpower people too i'm louder overpowering drunken church ladies with my horrible rendition of some dirty fucking song. Apple bottom, James! That's right. That I'm making up new words to. Absolutely.

That would be fun. I wouldn't mind it. I will ruin your... If I had a good singing voice, I'd love to be part of a choir and just fuck it all up. That'd be fantastic. I would love to ruin somebody's choir.

I can't sing at all. No, I don't want to sing either. I know how to imitate other people singing, but I can't sing it myself. I just can make fun of others singing. Plug my nose and sound like Phil Collins. There you go. I'm in.

Do it. Let's go. So, yeah, they say, now she seems like, by the way, Sister Patricia over here with the Divine Providence Convents, she seems like she's never met a person whom she did not smell alcohol in the breath am i right or wrong yeah everybody

she meets she's like i smell alcohol in his breath babies yeah that baby's been drinking everyone's been drinking or like is trying to do some weird sexual thing in her mind she's just weird so uh now she wants to have more kids, and she's really pushed for this, to have more kids. He didn't really, he wasn't real excited about it, as there's, you know, I don't know. When a guy has three kids, there's not a lot. Some guys are like, I want eight.

But most guys aren't like that. Most guys are like, that's enough now. I wanted a lot, and then and then i had two and i was like i don't want another one of these yeah my brother originally was like yeah my wife wants five and then they just had a second one yeah they have two under two and he's like i don't want any more kids it's crazy i'm done yeah i'm gonna have an accident in the garage a medical accident and i got a friend with two they had a third and they're and they're different people the third no changed that changes everything once you're outnumbered it's nuts it's triage at that point crazy once you're outnumbered you're basically just playing prevent defense you're just like a safety that's backpedaling the whole time

don't let him get past you just keep it in front of you keep it in front of you you broke formation god damn it susan just no touchdowns all right no long plays just keep it in front let them pick up 15 yards fuck it but just keep it in front and their third one is the hardest to control of course why not that's how it is you can't do that three is too many it's crazy over there you can't be out numbered yeah and she wants another like you're dumb you you're dumb. Jesus Christ. You're so dumb. It's wild. How could you? At that point, you're just controlling and hurting. It's more like having a lot of puppies or something.

You're a shepherd. Keep them over there. You're just trying to keep everyone alive. You leave your job to go be a baby shepherd. Yeah. That is brutal. There's no joy. No.

There's no smiling. Very few moments of joy. There's no joy. No, there's no smiling. Very few moments of joy. So now she actually going toward late October and into November, she has an appointment and plans to be artificially inseminated. Oh, actually, as a matter of fact. So she's going through with it. Hardcore.

She wants to do this. He wants to be involved or not. Exactly. He didn't really want to have more kids, but he's like, I guess i'll bust off into a cup for you there you know whatever for sure or it's somebody else's in either way yeah i can't control it there you go so she um she's really making plans for this so jimmy she quit her job wow uh to be a full-time mother she's like i'm gonna get pregnant i'm gonna take care of these kids in the house and she's she'stime mother, she's like, I'm going to get pregnant. I'm going to take care of these kids in the house. And she's getting into it. She's talking about having a kid of her own.

She is in full nesting mode at this moment in time, which is fine. And she's also, when they got married, they have life insurance policies on each other, of course. $100,000 a piece. So that's nice. Now, November 7th, 1994. a piece so that's nice uh now november 7th 1994 this is about four days before her artificial insemination appointment appointment so this is go time coming up here now uh this night it's a sunday tim calls the paramedics and the police to his home here in rossship, obviously. The first officer arrives on the scene, comes in the home,

and he finds Tim attempting to revive Mary Ann, who is unconscious in the hot tub, or near the hot tub. I guess he pulled her out of the hot tub. He told the paramedics he was freaking out. He said that Mary Ann, she drank like 14 beers last night, got real shit faced uh they were

celebrating i guess he said they were celebrating an upcoming event which seems to be the sure that they're going to be artificially inseminated i don't know if she this was her last night to drink or whatever but she had to probably purify for a few days i don't know how that works just do a quick uh 48 hour cleanse i mean i feel like you want to kind of make the the environment inhabitable for a couple of days i don't know how maybe not gotta nest your womb also i don't know maybe you want to do meth the night before i don't know what maybe that'll perk up the womb and yeah more make it more adaptable to grab shit i have no idea how these things get the beakers bubbling in there i don't know if this is going to come as a shock to everybody but jimmy and myself neither of us are medical professionals not a true yeah you're right yeah you know i mean i know we sometimes

you might confuse it obviously you know we sound like we are but no it's shocking we're not so um don't know anything actually so they've been celebrating he said he left the hot left her in the hot tub when he went inside to take a shower and that he came back and she was unconscious face up in the hot tub. So he's like, I don't know if she passed out from the booze and I don't know what the hell happened here. She hit her head just trying to revive her. So police officers and the paramedics and everybody, they pull her out of the hot tub. They attempt to revive her. They can't revive her right there.

So they need to. There's an ambulance and they get her in. They're rushing her to the hospital. It's a this is very touch and go. Obviously, there's, you know, an unconscious woman that's been in water. Sure. So that's bad. You're dealing with you don't know how long there's been no oxygen for brain damage.

Right. Could be a lot of bad things as this as we all know from this. You hear about kids falling in pools all the time. Oxygen deprivation will change your whole makeup. makeup yeah i would say it'll ruin your brain i mean that's you need oxygen so uh detective gary waters is the first detective to get to the scene and he arrives about three o'clock in the morning at the scene here and uh he has a quick conversation with tim he notices that there's some uh a scratch mark on tim's neck so he makes note of that they take marianne to allegheny general hospital and uh

which by the way you wonder why i do these reviews by the way then take him to the hospital allegheny which is uh not the closest hospital as we know from that very detailed review of medical facilities that I gave you for a fucking reason. So there are hospitals right around. But at the insistence of Tim, they take her to Allegheny General Hospital. The further one. The further one. That's the one, I guess. I think that's the bigger one.

But he said, that's the one I want her to go to, which is more time going by now. There, they work on her, but she is pronounced dead at the hospital. Yeah. So Marianne dies in the hot tub. Damn it. Yeah. Not good. So that's a rough thing.

The autopsy that they do reveals that her death was caused by asphyxiation resulting from blunt force trauma to her neck oh which if you slip in a tub also and you fall and hit your head and then you would drown million dollar baby that's what i mean there's that things happen sure you know what i mean it happens a lot the other day sarah you know those big uh those balls that people sit on yeah exercise ball aerobic ball yeah sarah has one of those she likes to bounce and mess around the other day she's up she has it up by the camera and she's on her knee on the counter yeah i was like what the fuck happens around here and there's you know granite countertops and she's like up at the counter bouncing on and on her knees and i'm like if that thing shoots out from fucking behind you your face is going into there and i am getting

blamed for murdering you no one's believing this has happened so i said i'm taking a picture i literally took a picture of her on her knees by the thing waving at me i'm like your defense yes this is what you're doing first and i'm gonna say i told her not to do this and then she killed herself yeah because if any i said if anything happens to you look, I'm like the murder guy. They're going to fucking think I did something wrong. They're going to be like, forget about it. He's been for years, but he's got he must think he's got a way to get away with it.

Like, no, like you have to be so careful. Yeah, I always tell her that. God damn careful getting into the tub. Careful. Don't slip. Yeah, we've kind of pigeonholed ourselves into having zero relationships anywhere yeah no it's can't talk to my kids anymore so if anything happens to them i'm the guy of course yeah we're fucked we just have to sit in a basement and make

dentures and pretend it's a butthole i don't know what we're supposed to do anymore i don't know what we can do anymore give me the butthole stencil, James. I got another molar. Okay. Here you go. Hold on. I'm finishing it first. You can have it when I'm done. You can have it when I'm done.

One second. We got to get two of these, really. If we're both going to do this down here, we got to get two of these. We only have one of them. Why do we have one? It's a write-off. Let's get two. Come on.

There are more molars in the mouth than any other tooth, and we only got one of them. We only have one stencil. This is ridiculous. Fuck, man. We got our shit together. So the autopsy also shows numerous points of trauma of recent origin on Marianne's body and head, including hemorrhages on her neck and bruises on the interior of her scalp, which were inconsistent with the treatment that they're saying that's not damage from trying to revive

her because in a scene like a lot of times there'll be broken ribs and shit that's the revival attempt that's the cpr and stuff so the compressions don't go on the skull yeah exactly we'll have bruises and they'll have all sorts of broken ribs and then oh they fucking slam fists on them they punch the shit out of people yeah sometimes that'll end up happening and then they'll go oh there was all these injuries and they go yeah they fucking right bounced up and down on this person for a half hour medics yeah there you go fat paramedics pittsburgh yeah guy's a heavy set guy he just came from that hockey bar at the hotel i was in he ate those wings with the whiskey barbecue sauce it It was delicious. And the penguins lost, so he was pissed. He was pissed off.

He goes, God damn it, Sidney Crosby, you fucking bum. Breathe, damn you! Breathe. As he's just beating on her. Yeah. So that happens, though. But this is inconsistent with that, with this poor woman. Marianne's blood alcohol level at the time of her death.

Now, here's a big thing because tim's been telling everybody she's drinking and her friends are like i don't know about this uh her blood alcohol level is 0.22 percent that's a lot which is a shit load of booze yeah that's about three times like the legal driving limit in this state and it's uh that's a lot that's a lot yeah it's blurry i mean that is really blurry. Another, you know,.33 is like, you're going to die. Yeah. So that's, we're getting into.

.4 is generally you're deceased already. You're John Bonham level. It's not good. Not good drunk. It's bad stuff. So this is,.22 is a lot. That's a lot. So you've got to be a pro to even get to.22, I would imagine.

You've got to handle booze pretty well. I't think i could get point two two no i don't think i could get that far because i'm just i don't like to drink that much so i would be well before that point i would have quit yeah drinking it would have become less not fun for me anymore it depends on what i'm drinking because if i'm drinking beer i don't get as drunk because i don't drink as many of them because the bloat is... How could you be? Yeah. As I get older, too, it's so embarrassing.

It bloats further, and then I just feel fucking gross. Yeah. But wine, I'll drink like a bottle. I'm sure that's more than.22, right? No. A bottle of wine. A bottle of wine? A whole bottle to yourself?

That's not... Pretty fast? No. .22 is still... I'm pretty hammered. That's more than that. I mean, that's how hammered.22 is..22 is pretty fucking hammered that's more than that that's what i mean that's how hammered 0.22 is pretty fucking hammered i'll drink like a fifth of uh of whiskey like i didn't in st louis show i drank like a fifth there oh that was a lot that was a lot there's a lot

i don't know if i was that drunk though yeah i may not have been that drunk well she said it was uh it was uh uh he said it was 13 to 15 beers that's so many that's a lot of beers and that would be the equivalent like basically like four bottles of wine oh boy so 0.22 is that that's two gallons of liquid that's a shitload fuck man that's a lot man i would think yeah you could drink two gallons of pepsi and you'd fucking you'd pop you'd you'd go unconscious in a hot tub i would imagine so um now before she's taken to the hospital as they're taking her out tim spontaneously tells one of the detectives quote i hope they don't try to put this on me which is a strange thing to say well tim and a tragedy like that yeah i mean that's just odd

yeah i don't know if you're worried about that so questions tim yeah tim well now i want to ask you about it i felt bad for you but now let's have a conversation tim there was zero thought of that a minute ago tim um tim uh so about 3 45 a.m detectives waters and james uh civitec well cv his name starts with oh boy uh civetek we're gonna call him uh kevetic kevetic or civetek i don't know cv cv civetic or kevetic i'm not sure and it could be uh polish so that's right it could be or quick or quite you know what i don't know i don't know what's going on yeah it's something some james uh guy in a polka band. Put it that way. Detective polka band.

Detective James Polka. He spoke to Tim and noted that Tim had a small injury on his left thumb. So he notes that. And another guy noticed a scratch on his neck. A little more questions go on here. A few more. And the detectives ask him if he come down to the police station. Tell you you what let's go down to the police station because the kids are by the way sleeping in the house still uh no no they're not sleeping there they've been we'll talk about where they

went but they uh they're sleeping so he's like let's go down there we don't want to disturb the kids and let's just you know do all of that so he said sure why not and he agrees to uh gives the gives the detectives the clothes he'd been wearing earlier in the evening and uh all that sort of thing they take him to the police station he's not handcuffed or anything like that they just drive him down there why caravan like a bunch of fucking crazy people we'll give you a ride yeah we're nice people here i guess so much agreed yeah tim is with the police and um they look at him and they're you know just while he's sitting there and under the the lights of the police station or fluorescents are a little more than your

your house so they start noticing some scratch marks on his arms and sides and hands and a lot of scratch marks on him so uh they he also um they they talk to him a little bit and um basically they after some conversation they ask him they may not even ask him they kind of say you did something didn't you you like you had something to do with this didn't you this isn't an accident like your wife's death is something's going on here and he nodded like yes yes is what he nodded so they're like okay this is very interesting uh the way this worked they kept him in a room in the basement from 4 20 a.m until 11 30 p.m is what he says now that's that's a long time 4 30 a.m to 11 30 p.m p.m that is uh that's too long it's almost yeah it's like 17 hours it's a long time yeah it's a fucking shit 19 hours it's a long time yeah it's. It's a long time. Yeah, it's a fucking shit. 19 hours. It's a long time. It's a long usually after about eight hours of interrogation. This is an interrogation, though, so it's different.

But eight hours of interrogation is after that. The judges, you start looking at that's getting thrown out. Judges will start tossing that shit because it's appeal date after that. So they said they didn't. They never afforded him a specific option to leave they weren't like well you can go but he was never under arrest so he could have left but they weren't like they didn't say every five minutes by the way you're allowed to leave whenever you want figured it was assumed yeah he was photographed his wounds were photographed

they did a polygraph they asked him if he do a polygraph now that's voluntary though you don't have to do a polygraph he could have said i'm I'm not doing that. But it looks bad if you're not, you know, don't do the polygraph to be eliminated as a suspect, as they tell you. So he they do that. He's interviewed by detectives. He claims he's had no opportunity to sleep either before or after he was transported and was at the police station. He hasn't slept and all this sort of thing. So he figured he later on, he'll say, I thought I was was at the police station. He hasn't slept and all this sort of thing. So he figured he later on, he'll say,

I thought I was being detained the whole time. You know what I mean? I thought I was being detained and the detectives didn't, the autopsy wasn't even done yet while they were talking to him. They were just going on suspicions. And, but you know, he says that he shouldn't,

he says they should have let him go anyway. Okay. Now they arrived at the police station at 420 a.m. This is how it went down. He's interviewed until about 545 a.m. So that's only an hour, 25 minutes. Then this was in the basement office. So they didn't like stick him in a hole in the basement. This was Detective Walter's office in the basement.

So at all times, they said he was alert and responsive 5 30 a.m he signed a consent form allowing police to photograph the scratches on his body take fingernail scrapings and obtain items found near or around the hot tub yeah so he's letting them do an investigation basically also he's agreed to submit to a polygraph uh during the time he was they said he was free to move about the police station. He wasn't in like a locked room. He would get up and go to the bathroom and go get a drink out of the water fountain. He was not like a suspect at this point is what they said. He could move around. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed

red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Between 6 a.m. when the polygraph examiner

was contacted and 8.15 a.m. when they arrived at the police station, he ate breakfast with the officers. They discussed football and their kids. I mean, it's November mean it's this yeah it's it's november yeah it's uh you know i don't know bill cower i like the way he's got that cardell stewart this guy i don't know about that guy you know no i don't know he played receiver too but i like him

they say i like him back there you can play a lot of positions slash slash they call him i like he's running around i like him that barry foster boy he's uh i'll tell you what he's running around everywhere i like him he's gonna plow right over people at barry foster i hope he's good at one fucking thing yeah i'll tell you what he's uh so uh they talk about that they talk about their kids talk about other bullshit who knows he never said that he was like extra tired or that he wanted to go home or that he needed to take a nap or anything like that. He did request permission to contact his father to ask about his children, and he was allowed to do that, see if they're okay. Now, the polygraph examiner, who was a guy named Trooper Richard Ealing,

he gets to the station, and he tells him what's going on. At that point, they advise him of his Miranda rights because he's going to be asked very pointed questions. So got to be now. He's a once you're anything question like that, you have to be Miranda. So he signed an explicitly. He signed a form waiving rights that were subjected to the polygraph examination. They told him he's free to leave.

He couldn't be forced to take the examination they went over all that shit with him it's all written down he signed it yeah the starts at 10 15 a.m and um they said once they're done it doesn't take very long the trooper tells him that you failed yeah you failed the lie detector you failed it miserably basically you got your name right outside of that not, not so much. Pretty bad stuff. He said this guy expressed the belief that he was responsible for his wife's death, and that's when he nodded. Yes.

Now, this is one of those. A good polygraph examiner is that they don't even need the machine. The machine could be not even hooked up to anything. It's not even plugged in. It doesn't matter. Body language is everything. Well, you saw that Chris Watts one. She had him shitting in his pants the way she put it was unbelievable she's like well we're both gonna know the truth here in a minute huh and she's just like uh you could

see he's just like oh i'm fucked right now one person in this room knows the truth but in a minute two people yeah isn't that fun isn't that fun that's how she was but he's like yeah that's that's terrific scared shitless he didn't because what do you ask yeah you just gotta go yeah yeah that's great cool what do you say but cool i guess she loves her job she seemed to really be into it so uh which you would love nailing that asshole to kill his fucking kids and his wife you'd oh you'd want to be like yeah let's find out oh would you look at that i'd be a total dick to him but uh in one i mean possibly the worst way the it could only be worse if he if he sexually did anything to those children that would be the only thing worse but really just a disgusting monster way of murdering children horrible he's a nightmare like chris watts and a wife obviously and obviously yeah the wife we're just taking the kids because that's

extra oh at least you can have a you can have a legitimate problem not that he did but you could have a legitimate problem with an adult and whatever you're between you is whatever but the kids no you you have the ante on the scumbag meter. You invented those. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, you created this. Yeah, they didn't ask to be here. No. So he tells him that. Tim nods that, yeah, he had something to do with it. It's at this point that Tim says, quote, this is pretty serious. Maybe I should call someone.

But he doesn't say. Lawyer. He doesn't say a lawyer. He doesn't say what lawyer. He doesn't say, I want to call a lawyer. You have to specifically opt out of an interview with what you can't just go maybe i should call a lawyer they'll go well maybe you should but first maybe let's talk about this for a minute i mean if you call a lawyer who knows you

have to say i will not answer any more questions until i have a fucking lawyer right so anyway he uh even then they'll still ask you questions till he gets there or they get there i should say so i've just pictured some scumbag dude sorry so he uh bacon just got out of the basement with his dentures so um he he says that they tell him he he you know failed the polygraph and he says you know again they remind him of his miranda rights he doesn't have to talk if he doesn't want to but he then again affirms that he nods when they talk about it at the death all three officers confront him with their belief that he caused marianne's death and he again nodded yeah um one of the uh waters this detective he said quote i told him there's no doubt in my

mind that you caused your wife's death i know you want to get it off your chest and he said that he nodded yes then he said i'll tell you what really happened when i have my attorney here okay so we'll talk about it then so he told the officers that he would tell them what happened once james herb who's his lawyer once he gets there okay once jimmy herb gets here we're in so they said okay all questioning stopped they called the uh they called the attorney. At 11.30 a.m., he was transported. That was a typo.

It's 11.30 a.m., not p.m., by the way. They didn't keep him there for 19 hours. Yeah, that was a typo in the court document. Thanks, state of Pennsylvania. So at 11.30 a.m., he's transported, no restraints still, to police headquarters. This is where they give him the fingernail scrapings and all that sort of thing at noon he signed a consent to search his clothing and body and cooperated with the physician who did his you know physical examination of the fingernail scrapings and his scratches and everything like that his attorney arrived there at about two o'clock and met with tim alone for about an hour yeah at police station. Following the meeting, Detective Shvedek,

Shvedek, Shvedek, Shvedek, Shvedek, Shvedek. I'll bet it's Shvedek. Shvedek. It's such an ugly name. It is, I bet it is. It very well could be. Shvedek. He then told him of his Miranda rights again.

This was in the presence of the attorney, and he said that he didn't want to make any further statements. And that was that. So that's how that worked. Without his lawyer? And his lawyer showed up? His lawyer showed up. And then he was like, I told him I'd tell him what happened once you got here.

And the lawyer was like, what are you, out of your fucking mind? Are you dumb? Now that I'm here, you're not saying anything else at all. We at the law offices of Herbs and Spices say no. Of Herbs, Spices, Rosemary, Thyme. saying anything else at all we at the law offices of herbs and spices yeah no of herb spices rosemary thyme and fucking and crushed red pepper crushed red pepper you know how it works yeah so uh they end up uh they end up uh arresting him obviously for this they think he killed his wife so they're gonna arrest him and uh her family feels bad because her family feels like did we miss signs of this did was there like a you know could we have stopped this or whatever they they don't know uh they said that uh the one her aunt

marianne's aunt said the his first wife's death always bothered her and you know never knew the circumstances and now she wishes she would have really thought about it and then ask more questions she said when i found out right away i said he murdered her he murdered her he murdered her his niece her niece uh so relatives are pissed off um and they're mad at him basically they want to fucking they're mad at him as i don't blame him so anyway in jail he makes incriminating statements to fellow inmates not one lots several several yeah he basically he basically pulls a uh uh what's her name um jesus christ uh areas no the i can't remember her real name now the the

manson girl oh the main one no no that went by sadie may glutz susan atkins susan atkins there you go i had to say that susan atkins when she was in jail just basically told everybody they didn't even she wasn't even in for it she was in for something else and she was just telling everybody you know is that sharon tate i killed her jesus you know like oh i'm you know giving details opening the whole thing up oh yeah just telling her everything telling everybody everything that's how she got busted. That's how they all got busted was cellmates of hers told the cops to get their time reduced. So he was telling, he said that, yeah, I, you know, yeah, I killed my wife.

You know, this happened. And he said, I don't know. It was stupid, I guess, is what he said. That was stupid, wasn't it, is what he said to a cellmate. Like, probably, yeah. Now, the, his. No what he said to a cellmate. Like, probably, yeah. Now, his... No dumber than telling a stranger. Yeah, I would...

No shit. I don't know. That's the first dumb thing you've done. I guess this is not much smarter. A guy named Randy Irwin, who's an inmate there, he said that... Randy kept notes of conversations he had with Tim. He walked out.

Fuck yeah. He kept notes about the deaths of the wife here during a three-week period when they were both incarcerated in the county jail. At one point, he asked Tim why he killed his wife, and he said, I don't know. That was stupid. So that's his thing that he does. He just tells everyone, I don't know. That was stupid. Now, this guy's taking notes. He in the cell he's like he said this and that

that some bitch said that that's hilarious getting out of this deal so the next day uh the police here they go hold on a second um we think he killed his wife here um didn't his first wife die too yeah we got some digging to do um hold on a minute let's call the police down where he's from and find out how she died so they call greensboro north carolina oh it's all the way down there where he's from and they go yeah we got a uh this guy we know his wife died down there and he uh this is what happened there by the way well you know what's the deal with the first wife and they find out oh she died in the bathtub yeah yeah in the bathtub so they go interesting um accidental and they went yeah yeah it was an accidental death

and they go you might want to look into that a little bit more because head over to home depot and grab some shovels yeah we got a uh we got a hot tub dead wife over here that's pretty similar yeah um yeah so he they're gonna look into this now so now he's got a lot of problems he used to be married to mary another mary mary elaine uh pegger boskowski uh elaine is what she goes by birth date 1956 so same age as the other mary uh when he lived in greensboro they ran a miniature golf course and an ice cream shop together totally different thing wild really weird just into something else so so niche it's denture making yeah so specific in a four-year period yeah not only into it enough to make a really good living off of it like that's wild i don't know

in a hockey town it's kind of smart, though. I guess so, yeah. They're losing a lot. Licking a lot of teeth. A lot of teeth. November 4th, 1990, let's go to. By the way, the other one was November 7th, 1994. November 4th, 1990, in Greensboro, North Carolina.

This is coming from a neighbor. uh north carolina this is uh coming from a neighbor okay okay now uh uh by the way we know that he claimed marianne the second wife consumed 14 beers and some wine on the day she died and he left her in the hot tub and all that now um uh that's that how that one goes liz maple the neighbor the neighbor she says that her and elaine talked all the time and that elaine before she died had recently told tim that she wanted a separation elaine couldn't had said she couldn't afford to leave him yet so she borrowed clothes and shoes from her neighbor so she could look for a job as a secretary she didn't have like work clothes yeah so she's that's how bad she wants out of this is she needs to get a job and she

needs to make her way the fuck out of here and get away from this guy. So, um, Elaine had told her neighbor that she hoped that she could start over and get out of there with her children by January of 91. That's two months away from this thing here. Six weeks. Yeah.

Well, that was because she was about to receive a large settlement from an insurance company for injuries she suffered in a car accident so this was as soon as she said when i get that check i'm out of here rather than depositing it in the family account i am bouncing with the kids and getting my own my own place so that's that's her plan but november 4th 1990 at 2 50 a.m uh liz mabel maples the neighbor opens the door to tim standing there in the middle of the night it's 2 50 a.m right and he's it's cold outside it's november in pittsburgh and he's shirtless outside standing at her door greensboro greens or i'm sorry in greensboro either way cold cold in the winter it's north carolina it's freezing in the winter

it snows it's hell down there hundred and humid in the summer. Either way, cold. It's cold. Cold in the winter. It's North Carolina. It's freezing in the winter. It snows. It's hell down there. 100 and humid in the summer, fucking snowing in the winter. It's the worst climate ever. Let's move down there. The worst of both worlds. Yay. Awful shit.

So anyway, she says that he looked all sorts of not together at that moment. He's got shirtless. It's cold. He's got scratches on him uh there's she said he has vomit stuck in his chest hair so that's not a good sign it's terrible yeah that looks bad and he says something's wrong with elaine can you take care of the kids is what she says so she says yeah sure i guess why not His story is he heard a thump in the bathroom that night, and he went to investigate and found his wife submerged in the bathtub. And he told police that she drank too much at a church dance that night and must have slipped in the bathtub. He's got a lot of boozy girls. A lot of boozy churchy girls.

He likes boozy churchy and clumsy as fuck. He likes them boozy and churchy and wanting to soak. That's what he likes. He likes a very specific woman. The boo wanting to soak. That's what he likes. He likes a very specific woman. The boozy church woman. Unstable on her feet. Wobbly. Great mother.

Loves church. Drunk as the day is long. That's the type of guy he likes. That's the type of woman he likes. That's a really odd thing. So at 2.55 a.m., emergency personnel were summoned by him to their apartment in Greensboro. Rescue personnel from the fire department and the medical services were directed to the second floor bathroom by the children. So they were still around.

The rescuers found Tim attempting to perform CPR on his wife, which is a familiar scene we've heard of before, who was nude on the floor as you would be you know if you were taking a bath she wasn't breathing and had no pulse bad signs over bad signs one and all sure uh they attempted to resuscitate her but failed and she's rushed to the hospital where she is pronounced dead at 4 16 a.m so not great at police department, they take him down, obviously, to chat about it. He tells them that he was estranged from his wife, even though they were still living together. They weren't really together. She wanted a separation. He said they separately attended their church social that evening.

They went in separate cars and that his wife had been drinking alcohol before the church function and then after the church function. They came home alone. He came home alone about 1240 is what he tells them at first. But he gave us a couple of different versions. One version he claimed he was listening to headphones while he was asleep in the master bedroom and was awakened when he heard a noise in the bedroom. And he said that he used a screwdriver to pop the lock of the bathroom door when he got no answer after knocking in another version he said he was

listening to music downstairs on the headphones and heard a noise in the bathroom and he said he took the hinges off the door to get into the bathroom oh those are two very different ways of getting into the room yeah popping a lock and taking the hinges off you'd remember taking hinges off yeah it'd be one thing if you go i can't remember if it was locked and i had to jam it or if i just i don't remember but taking hinges off is a aren't the hinges usually on the inside they're on the inside otherwise why would you bother having a lock why lock it yeah just take it off it's a little easier to take yeah i'm in weird so very very strange shit here so uh he claims though in both versions that he uh she was lying on her back in the tub with her head underwater he said he pulled her head up placed her nightgown under her head and pushed her on her stomach to

force the water out is what he was saying that's what he said he said that vomit came out of her mouth instead of water yeah that's what he said and then he says that uh he lifted her out of the bathtub and again tried to force water from her by pushing and squeezing on her abdomen and attempting cpr and uh that's when he said after he after he couldn't revive or he called 9-1-1 i'd say call 9-1-1 then try to revive yeah but i guess you don't want to waste time. You try to revive. You just see her. You might just dive into it, start trying to revive. Also, the people on the other end of the phone generally know what you should be doing.

That's the other thing, too. They'll coach you through it. Yeah. I don't know if his running an ice cream shop would... Maybe he's really good at it. Really good at it. It's Pittsburgh. Anyone could drop dead at any moment. Any moment.

So there was no... They do a little investigation there was no evidence that there was ever water in the tub that night at all which is he said he found her submerged okay so no evidence there was water uh no alcohol was found in her system none none okay who got zero so that's odd uh she had vomit in her lungs in an autopsy show. She aspirated it. Good Lord. Vomit in her lungs, bruising on her head and body, cracked ribs and lines across her chest and abdomen.

That's what it said. Now, they are both wives are within a year. One was 35. One was 36 when they died. This both happened on a Sunday in November. Yeah. Both wives weighed the exact had the same exact weight when they died. This both happened on a Sunday in November. Yeah. Both wives weighed the exact, had the same exact weight when they died.

151 pounds on both of the raw toxins. 151 pound Mary's. 151 pounds named Mary. Wild. All of this type of shit. By the way, they're both buried in the same cemetery. Stop that.

Their graves are in the same section, Jimmy. Wow. They're in the same fucking area of the cemetery that is wild that is insanity that's too much it's weird dude it's weird so the autopsy they do on her they found all these bruises a diagonal pattern of three parallel lines measuring 9 to 11 inches long impressed on her stomach in addition five fresh bruises on the interior of her scalp and only one of the five bruises could have resulted from someone falling and hitting their head in the bathtub they said now toxicology report report said no alcohol or antidepressants

in her blood at all and um the doctor ended up saying they could not determine the cause of her death but the doctor does uh say that she it's in their opinion that elaine did not die from drowning something else her death is certified her death certificate indicates her cause of death is undetermined and it just never stays that way stays open don't know what happened so that's how he skates in and now now they're reopening it it's a little more determined ways to do it right it's homicide accidental natural causes or undetermined yeah i think that's right yeah so undetermined we're here now so the problem is there's people with

some this doesn't seem like it was so such a mystery um the evidence shows that as a medical emergency medical personnel arrived at the apartment, the three children were taken to the neighbor's house. Like we said, Jerry Minton arrived at the at the apartment at approximately 10 a.m. to help the family. It's a family friend. told Minton earlier that she heard, I'm sorry, the young daughter, told the neighbor that, and she's, I think, 10 at this point,

that she heard her parents arguing and her mother telling her father, no, Tim, no, stop. Wow. So that's a big deal. Later that same day, Minton, the friend here, went upstairs with young Sandy to help her pack some clothes

to spend the night at someone else's house. As they walked past the bathroom where this all happened sandy said that again that she heard her parents arguing and she heard her mom say that so um you know that's that's interesting sure um they are these that that'll come in handy if you're gonna charge the guy now the next door neighbor liz maples like we said she lived next door she said that elaine twice uh told her that tim told elaine she was going to kill her so she told her neighbor that tim had told her she's going to kill her twice uh a week before the death and again the day before the death my god she said yeah tim said he's going to kill me um at one point uh mabel said that uh she characterized

elaine as frightful terrified and scared and really wanting to get out of the house she said that on the night of the death the uh he requested that he care she care for the children and he accompanied elaine to the hospital blah blah blah mabel uh will then say that he brought the children over at about 3 a.m but she put them to bed you know right away and whatever the next morning when they were eating breakfast she's feeding the kids breakfast the five-year-old kid uh says quote my mommy was screaming so loud last night i had to put my hands over my ears oh that's loud she wouldn't stop screaming and i saw her in the bathroom holding her hands up and daddy told me to get out that's i mean what the fuck oh boy that's um i don't know what you what else i mean

it's a kid so it's a five-year-old i don't know they're not looking at that as the most reliable but that's usually the most reliable well i mean they don't five-year-olds yeah they don't know i saw five-year-olds will tell crazy stories sure but that that's very specific that's if she if he said i walked by and then barney was in there and then spongebob came right and then the fucking you know the wonder pets were there and like if that's that would be a different story and then we all went on a trip and solved a crime yeah and then the little einsteins took me on a rocket ship that would be different what's gonna work teamwork i'd go okay yeah yeah that's fine but this this is very specific specific investigation where they interview the child and the child said and then i saw the monster appear and they're like all right kids and they're like got him away and then they're like oh my god

they're talking he's talking about his dad oh god and that's what his dad when his dad gets drunk and mean he's the monster yeah and his dad killed mom that makes sense that's sometimes you just got to pay attention what the kid says yeah especially until they start bringing up mystical characters that's the thing and shit like that and easter bunnies and shit but you know this something that specific that's not like something like whimsical a kid would make up i saw my mommy and they were screaming and then daddy told me to get out oh isn't that fun and it was so loud i had to cover my ears yeah that doesn't seem right here so back to ross township um paramedics uh learned here that when when police pulled marianne out of the water and tried to revive her paramedics learned that tim had previously attempted to resuscitate her and they interviewed him and

noticed that he had scratch marks on his neck and a fresh nick on his thumb they asked him to remove his shirt and they saw fresh red marks on his back and all that sort of thing he claimed he was sunburned and marianne had given him a scratch massage oh okay but they noticed that he was sunburned and Marianne had given him a scratch massage. But they noticed that he was pale and not sunburned at all. And it's November in Pittsburgh. Except you're not pink, sir. Yeah. Have you been to the Caribbean lately? Because the sun hasn't been out here in three months.

Let's be honest. Yeah. We've had a gray haze. The sun's been up for four hours a day. Yeah. Four hours. And it's very, very cold. You put it out, even through a window, I don't feel heat.

It feels like the sun's broken. It's not working correctly. Someone needs to check on that. So also the autopsy revealed all that other stuff, and they concluded, Dr. Rosen here concluded that Marianne, the second wife, died as a result of a homicide by manual strangulation, not by natural causes. This isn't undetermined at all. And suicide.

There's five. God damn it. And suicide. There you go. I'm going to get so many tweets by now. God damn it. That's on them because they should have listened longer. Whenever anybody does that, I never take it as anything.

I go, well, if you would have fucking listened five minutes longer before you tweeted keep your fucking phone in your pocket listen to the whole thing and then tweet then stupid i have no sympathy for someone that does that wait till the end when i beg for your help yeah no don't the second you hear something don't take your phone wait five minutes maybe it's fucking maybe we got it right give it a second how about pay attention to the show listen and then tweet later how's that sound okay then maybe you'll forget that's so goddamn important that's there you go maybe the thing that doesn't matter at all to you the two seconds of a two and a half hours so maybe you'll let it go by then so um now sometimes if we if it's something we don't know we're happy to get the information but if it's something we don't know, we're happy to get the information. But if it's something that we correct ourselves, we're good. So the bruises here, they said they were all fresh and everything like that.

Now, Tim is arrested for Elaine as well. And he's going to say that she accidentally drowned, the first wife, and that Marianne died from a heart attack while in the hot tub. That's his game. Dr. Tim. Marianne slipped, fell, killed herself. Accident. I'm sorry, Elaine. Marianne, heart attack.

Yeah. Drown from the heart attack. That's how it works. The kids give interviews here later on, and they talk, and the kids, this is on While the children slept. An episode of American Justice. Oh boy.

Tell us about it Bill Wallace. They said they supported their father's innocence. They said whether he's guilty or innocent. I'm still going to love him. That's what the one kid said. They go to trial for Elaine here first. The state presented. Contrary evidence. From Randy Irwin. kid said so they go to trial for elaine here first the state uh presented contrary evidence from a uh from randy erwin who was the guy who took notes in the cell yeah on everything the other guy said

erwin testified that he was reading a newspaper article about marianne and elaine's murders when uh tim came up and said quote i'm famous i'm the hot tub'm famous. I'm the hot tub man. Oh, my. I'm the hot tub man. Take it easy, Whirlpool. The hot tub man. Jesus Christ. I'm the hot tub man. Well, good for you. Not a good thing to be.

The hot tub man sounds like a guy who blows other guys in a hot tub. That's what it sounds like. He sits there waiting. You come in. You take your towel off a certain way, and that means he'll jerk you off. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's what that sounds like.

He's just like the creep that's already in the jacuzzi. And yeah, he's down there. Never mind. He's down there naked again. Never mind. I know he's got nothing on under those bubbles. I know it. He said that he testifies that he asked Tim why he killed both women the same way.

And that's when Tim was like, I don't know. Why not? Yeah, that's the way you do it so they go to they said that um at this point they get to introduce evidence of marianne into this as well on elaine's trial and there's a specific law here when the accused contends a victim's death was an accident rather than a homicide evidence of similar acts may be offered to show that the act in dispute was not inadvertent or accidental okay so if someone says some's an accident he's got a history of that same accident happening you can introduce that evidence but it's that specific yeah to outside shit otherwise it's character or it's different if it's showing a pattern there's a difference yeah so the court follows found these

similarities that uh it's a through i so uh both alleged victims were women and married to tim obviously both victims died at the home they shared with tim and and he was present when both of them died he was the last person to see both of them alive to perform CPR on each when emergency personnel arrived. He that the alleged victim died in or around a bathtub and the other one died in or around a hot tub, that he made statements in both cases that his wife had accidentally drowned, that he made statements in both cases that his wife had a drinking problem and said that a drinking problem continued, contributed to her death, that both women were similar physically. Both weighed 151 pounds at the time of death.

And in this case, she was 34. The other one was 35. Both women died on a Sunday in early November. And insurance money was involved in both incidents. Wow. That's a lot. That's too much of the exact same. It's too much. Yeah.

Kill your wife one in the spring, one in the fall. You can't do it both the front. Well, it's wife much same it's too much yeah kill your wife one in the spring one in the fall and you can't do it both the front well it's wife killing season yeah right that's what it is did it get drawn oh boy you know it's the holidays are coming up right after see right after halloween you got thanksgiving yeah all this coming up you got to get clear everything out and clear kill that wife off clear out for the holidays you know's too much. I got drawn for elk this year. What'd you get drawn for? Wives. Just wives. Wives.

You know, lots of wives. So they bring 17 witnesses to testify about the death of Marianne. And he contends the volume of evidence introduced through testimony was prejudicial against him. They have too much evidence. That's the idea. Literally said, it's too much evidence. That's the idea. Literally said, it's too much evidence. It's not fair. It's overkill.

17? They could have done that with five. Oh, no. Imagine that. There's no limit to evidence. Too much evidence. So they got fingerprints, DNA. That's too much. It's too much evidence.

They're trying to put me in jail? Come on. It's obviously a conspiracy against me. Wow. They got all these things. They got too much evidence. They're trying to put me in jail? Come on. It's obviously a conspiracy against me. Wow. They say they got all these things. They got my jizz. They got my blood. They got my DNA, my fingerprints, the hair I left on the scene.

They got my butthole print. They got my butthole print because this guy drew it out for me. I got a lot of problems. The butthole stencil I used. Yeah, I used my own. What do you think? What do you think, Eric? Jesus Christ.

I got one butthole on hand that is by the way my favorite excuse ever that's too much evidence obviously that's it's just overload that's not fair nobody's ever said that right i've never heard your honor we object because that's too much evidence against my client we know we don't feel like it's fair i've never once heard that that's a fucking new one man that's that's you know what i gotta give the credit for the legal the balls on it way to go herbs spices and more the utter balls to stand up in court and say i object your honor why is that well that's just a lot of evidence and we've it's just too much it's not fair your honor we

feel like they're piling on your honor they're being jerks what do you say to that how do you fucking get out of that yeah stupid he shouldn't have left so much evidence so uh now the jury instructions in elaine's trial are as such this is what the judge tells the jury quote now evidence has been received tending to show that mr boskowski's second wife marianne boskowski died under similar circumstances this evidence was recently or was received solely for the purpose of showing that mr boskowski had the intent which is a necessary element of the crime charged in this case and for the purpose of showing the absence of accident and explaining some of the circumstances,

including any delay in charging Mr. Boskowski arising in the investigation. If you believe this evidence, you may consider it, but only for that limited purpose and for no other purpose. Got it. So you can't just say, we think he killed the other one, so he definitely killed this one. Which you would definitely do as a human being. I mean, you've got to. You can't just say he we think he killed the other one so he definitely killed this right which you would definitely do as a human being i mean you've got to you can legally instruct whatever you want but you're like they both fucking come on jesus christ 150 151 pounds

right i was ready to let him go till i heard they both they both weighed a buck 51 now i'm not i'm done now this is bullshit i and that's i honestly would that that would be my it's too hard to not to not link them together right so november 1st 1996 is the verdict is his first degree murder intent and everything like that and the jury finds him guilty of murdering elaine so he's guilty now sentencing here uh this is a good one they give him sentence he says you sir yeah may fuck off uh life in prison yeah for him in pennsylvania okay uh now or i'm sorry in north carolina life in prison in north carolina now he's got marianne trial this is death penalty eligible here by the way in 1999 for marianne he um obviously is going to say that this is

insufficient evidence i mean good god there's a lot of it i mean it's a lot it's insufficient this much there's so much from this trial that it was too much for my other trial so it's a lot if you have it all here right jesus that's a lot of balls so he's a too much evidence in one insufficient evidence in this one to prove that he killed her. He said that there's insufficient evidence not only to prove that he wasn't the murderer or is the murderer, but they can't even prove it's not an accident. Yeah, this is bullshit. They don't know anything. Yeah.

He says he points to the testimony of the pathologist who performed the autopsy of Marianne and a defense pathologist. who performed the autopsy of marianne and a defense pathologist he says that they're more he argues that the the findings are more consistent with accidental drowning than with manual strangulation obviously you know clearly that's what my guy says anyway you know because i paid him to say i got a guy here he said it i mean you know he said it out loud he went to college i saw a thing on his wall hand on a bible it was framed what do you want from me he says that the pathologist for the state uh vacillated in his testimony regarding the cause he said that you know he didn't know shit meanwhile he said it was not an accident period so he that's not true he also says that the pathologist testified consistently that the cause of death was manual strangulation that's's what the state says, and they're right.

He did testify to that. I love when people try to just make shit up. The pathologist said that. No, he didn't. There's a court. There's a person sitting there typing every goddamn word you say. It's written down.

She's just knocking the shit out of this. It's written down, man. She'll read it if you'd like. Yeah, dude's got that shit. She's good at it. Yeah, they're all good at it. They can figure it out. They can's got that shit she's good at it yeah they're all good they can figure out figure all that shit out i don't know what the hell it is it's in like sanscript or something i don't know it's weird it's a hieroglyphical thing i don't know what

the hell it is it's you gotta it's calligraphy i believe shorthand shit is bananas man i don't know how they do it's weird the way they type it right two-handed well they look like they're kneading dough it's not like typing like a like normal like they have this like bounce to their rhythm of weird yeah it's not a keyboard it's a dough kneading motion they make with their hands so uh his own pathologist here tim's own pathologist cause testified the cause of death was drowning um but there's no reason to testify to that he just said it um his argument is that uh obviously it's he doesn't really have any evidence other than his pathologist going she could have drowned could have been that's all he's got he claims the court

is uh improperly admitting testimony from various witnesses that was cumulative and which essentially retried him for the north carolina murder he's like now you're bringing all the people from down there up here it's too much evidence too much case this is not fair i would like a smaller case your honor your honor could we just tone this down a little bit could we this is like a speedboat uh case could we tone it down to a pontoon nice casual pontoon if we if we could just make it me say you you're the judge you probably have to be here and like my attorney and you know that's it nobody else nobody else and we'll just tell the jury what happened sort this out we'll sort it out

for example he points to witnesses richard and nancy babica and mar Mary Ann Roqueford and police officer Brenda Vance as providing cumulative testimony regarding the circumstances of his first wife's death. A review of their testimony, however, says that, you know, they just gave consistent versions of how Elaine died in the bathtub, which was the same as this. So that's all. He also objects to the testimony of Dr. Deborah Radish, who performed the autopsy on Elaine. And she re-evaluated the autopsy results prior to the arrest in 1994 and all that sort of thing. They said that in 1990, she was unable to assign a cause of death.

she was unable to assign a cause of death but in 94 upon re-evaluation dr butts determined that the death was caused by asphyxiation with aspiration of gastric contents due to chest compression and that the manner of death was homicide so they're basically he's saying like oh it was an accident in 1990 but then as soon as the pathologist hears that they think i murdered somebody else now based on yeah based on evidence of outside shit not medical examination yeah which he's trying to say they're they're pathologists as being a detective now and using out using like information that's not just in the body to make a judgment which yeah i mean you kind of gotta take that too you gotta take a environment and that's what they do. Yeah, that's the job.

I don't know if people know this, but like if you read the David Simon homicide book, they have a big chapter on kind of the medical examiners and how that works. And the detectives argue with the medical examiners constantly over what's a murder and what isn't a murder. What's a murder and what isn't a murder? Like there's a couple of them where they were saying one, this guy, this guy died in the bathroom and his wife was trying to open the fucking door. Yeah. So she hit him in the head a lot. His head. He was caught between the toilet and a cabinet. And when she was trying to get it open, it broke his neck.

God damn it. It broke his neck. He's already dead. Right. But it broke his neck. damn it it broke his neck he's already dead right but it broke his neck and the uh the the paramedics and the police when they got there they saw it they were like holy shit that's clearly what happened yeah but the medical examiner wasn't at the scene the medical examiner ruled it a homicide and they were like no you don't understand you had to fucking be there to see it his there's no way

she could have put him down there and broke his neck it's not possible they're like he she was it was the door broke it but it was already it was he was dead everything else was broken anyway and they said there was like a several cases like that where there was like a drowning or something like that where they were like no you weren't there you don't know and the or it's definitely a homicide and the guy goes i can't rule it a homicide and they're like you don't understand you weren't there i'll show you where this guy, a woman got run over by a car. And the guy, they wouldn't rule it a homicide. He's like, I mean, it could have been an accidental run over. And they go, but you have to see the parking lot where it is.

The car couldn't have turned around right there at that speed. They would have hit the wall. And there's no fucking thing. So do it. And they were like, sorry, can't do it. So he's like, God damn it. We can't arrest this guy unless it's a homicide and this is so it's one of those things where they argue a lot in sense because they're not there so anyway uh you do take information and put it into your judgment once they'll take the medical examiner sometime to

the scene to show them and they'll go oh okay, okay. Yeah. All right. Homicide then. So it's not just a body that they're looking at. So, um, yeah, another officer, he testifies, uh, that,

or I'm sorry, she testifies to her observation of the scratches and bruises and swelling on his arms and hands immediately after Elaine's death. And, uh, also this is obviously relevant because he suffered similar injuries the night Marianne died as well. He also complained about the testimony of Christine Cheek regarding Elaine's last will and testament, saying it was improperly admitted because it was irrelevant because Cheek was not an expert as to the validity of wills in North Carolina. The the objection to the evidence, though, was only that the testimony regarding

the will was specific to a signature or some bullshit. So they said that she didn't possess sufficient knowledge and blah, blah, blah. So this is what he's arguing about. He's really grasping at straws here. He doesn't want to go to jail. No, that's what I mean. So because the the Pennsylvania suggested that he may have a financial motive for killing marianne and because they drew parallels between the deaths of the two wives uh the they said the will was relevant as to a possible economic motive for the first killing which would then be possibly for this one as well same season now um so uh here they find him as well guilty of murder. Now sentencing comes on.

Oh, boy. This is a big deal. He's up for the death sentence. He does have three young children. He does. Who he's their only parent. He's also a serial killer. He's also a serial killer.

I mean, you got to weigh a lot of factors if you're sentencing someone to this kind of shit. The kids all speak at the sentencing oh riced oh yeah begging uh 10 year old girl begging for her dad's life please don't kill my dad that's literally what's going on right now so that's pulling out all the fucking stops when you're when you're you're pulling out the please don't kill my dad card yeah um wow that's that's heavy i don't know could you make your kids do that even i don't know as a juror the death penalty i don't know that i could sit as a juror and listen to that and try to make it uh try to make an adult decision yeah you couldn't make what's best for society no that's yeah i would ask can i go can i leave yeah can i hug that

can can i hug the kid and you get an alternate in here? I gotta go. She seems so sad. I feel really. She's sad and I'm even sadder because I can't make this decision. I'm sorry. And I think that's what you're hoping for

when you bring your children to testify for you at a sentencing phase of a death penalty trial. I think you're definitely, you're trying to guilt the jury into whatever um so it goes to the jury and they have to really you know deliberate for a while and all that sort of shit so uh here we go comes out here is the verdict uh you sir may fuck off death penalty anyway oh kids be damned. Sorry, children. Yeah.

Daddy made a boo-boo. Made a couple of boo-boos. I think, yeah. And especially this being the second one. One trial, fine. But they're like, he's already guilty once. And now he did this again. Very similar.

He's dangerous. That's what I mean. He's just Ted Bundy, but he marries them first. Right. It takes longer. He works slower. Works a lot slower, but the results are very similar. Slow burn.

Slow burn. Gets there. Absolutely. So the reaction to this is mixed from different people, as you can imagine. The prosecutor, Edward Borowski, who sounds like the prosecutor of a Pittsburgh area court, he says, I think it was an appropriate sentence. He took the hearts and emotions of two families and destroyed them he devastated two sets of parents aunts uncles and cousins there's

a path of emotional devastation that reads like a phone book true uh the jurors said that they had a problem with this the the whole thing like the jurors were very much affected by this yeah guilty wise i guarantee you half that jury's right they're still in therapy from putting sentencing someone to death after their kids begged for not that that was really hard as a human to demoralizing you want to kill this asshole bad yeah but you don't want to hurt these poor kids who have lost two mothers now right they've been shown their dad right how how temporary parents are yeah this is this is fucked man so uh there was jurors that actually were crying as the verdict was as it was being read the decision for death there was jurors in tears about it because they just felt

fucking horrible um yeah it's bad stuff uh they the jurors declined to talk afterwards too they were all a little ever little wrecked about it. The defense counsel said the kids are victims for a third time. They lost two mothers. Now they're losing their father. This is all true, but he shouldn't have killed the two mothers and put himself in this position. Blame him. He took all three of them from them.

That's what I mean. He just couldn't have. He didn't want his first wife to leave him. That's what happened here. So, I mean, didn't want his first wife to leave him and didn't want this one to have another kid oh man rejection sucks you can't just kill people yeah i mean it sucks to get rejected but you can't i get it too they have three kids together and all but you can't kill her that's insane that's fucking nuts i mean think about your kids for two seconds they probably like to have their mother whether you like her or not worry about your kids that's very selfish so uh uh also marianne the first or the second wife

her mother loretta says she has struggled for her desire for retribution she's struggled with it she said quote well i go back and forth one day i hate him and i want him to pay for what he did and then there's and then there's the children. He said, Marianne loved and cared about them. And we know they are hurting too. A close friend of hers said, quote, he's a cold-blooded killer. He set all this up. Marianne was a wonderful person.

She didn't deserve to die. No one deserves to die like this. Finally, justice is done and we can get on with our lives. Indeed. So the Elaine, he appeals this case here. He appeals this based on the it's based on the admission of the other trial shit of all the Mary Ann's. Too much evidence is what he said. Basically, it's a mountain. 17 witnesses contends the volume of evidence introduced through the testimony deprived him of a fair trial.

I've never the volume of evidence. That's wild. Yeah. Not it's illegal evidence. Not it's it shouldn't be admitted or it's whatever. It's too much. I mean, if you're just going to tell them everything I ever did, obviously they're going to. Yeah.

They're going to think I did it. OJ should have tried that. Your Honor, that's too much evidence. No, it wasn't improperly handled. There's just too much of it. That's all. Do we have limits on evidence? Is there like when you do a fundraiser

and you've got a thermometer and at the top it just starts overflowing when you've got too much? That's where we're at, I think. I think we're at the red top. Look who has blood in their car. Come on. We don't need DNA. Let's just go with that that's enough right i think we fundraised the shit out

of this i think we did it so um yeah they said uh evidence has been received tending to show that the second wife marianne died under similar circumstances this evidence was received solely for the purpose of showing that he had the intent obviously so it's fine and also he contends that the uh also they they said that the instruction wasn't clear enough the jury instruction which i read the jury instruction it was pretty fucking clear i'm sorry it was you know this can be used for this purpose only and not that purpose so i thought it was very clear hoy also says the trial court erred by permitting the state to introduce the alleged hearsay of other people of his daughter. Oh, the you know, my mommy's this and that shit as excited utterances.

And he objected to the introduction of statements made by within hours of the death made by his daughter, Sandy, who was nine years old. I'm sorry, not five at the time to a neighbor talking about my mommy's screaming and all that shit. So that's a pretty ridiculous thing to try to object to here. So they say, go fuck yourself. Life in prison, asshole. But the big one is the death penalty appeal. but the big one is the death penalty appeal obviously this is 1999 and this goes all the way to the state supreme court in pennsylvania and uh the he says that uh um one of the complaints is the time period he says that the murder the the um charges were filed November 14th, 1994, and the trial wasn't until April 5th, 1999, which is 1,603 days later.

Now, if he didn't kill someone in another state, that's kind of on you, asshole. We had to do a whole other trial. that it's appropriate to exclude 966 days from october 5th 95 to may 27th 99 during with which the pre-trial appear appeal of the trial court's ruling on a motion was going on so he's like okay that's fine but he says exclude all these days he said he takes issue with the trial court's exclusion of two other blocks of time 147 days occasioned by a request for a postponement on the defendant's part. He's saying it took too long. And then they're breaking down the days and they're like, you requested this days and these days exclude that exclude that exclude that. It really hasn't been that fucking long, basically.

So, yeah, they said the appellate, he's arguing that the trial court erred in excluding this period of something from its Rule 1100 calculation that the Commonwealth's lack of due diligence in providing him with discovery, which occasioned his postponement request. Oh, boy. Holy shit. This is the legal, the level of legal trying his grasping at straws really you can get to this is like i mean there's no statute of limitations on murder man no there really isn't wait until fucking yep the minute before you die yep well he's saying they didn't you know give him a a speedy trial basically they they held him there forever is yeah they just held him there uh but they said it leaves wow this is wild 420 oh my god subtracting this this this is a line from this subtracting this 147 day excludable period from the rule 100 calculation leaves 427 days

imagine having to argue about this shit in an open court uh turning to the second disputed time period they go through all of these time periods of exactly what he did and why and how and all this type of shit so um yeah they said in addition to violating an existing court order the trial prosecutor's unauthorized conduct ultimately created the by the basis for the commonwealth's commonwealth to newly certify him as death eligible here's his main complaint okay pennsylvania rather than trying him right away they let him go down to north carolina to be tried first north carolina had to put in a request for extradition because he was also being held for murder in Pennsylvania. Yeah, they allowed the request. Now, what this did was give him basically show his intent and his pattern to do this and made him death penalty eligible in Pennsylvania.

So they're saying the he's saying his argument is with all the times is you only let me go down down there to get tried first so then I could be death penalty eligible here. That's hard to say. Then I can be death penalty eligible here. So you set me up to get the death penalty here is what he's saying. All right. You sent me down there to get tried first. If you would have tried me up here first, I wouldn't have got the death penalty because the reason I got it is because of the first murder. Okay.

That's what he's saying, okay? All right. So you fucked me. All right. It was his whole basic deal. Well, you fucked yourself. And the court says, you're right. Oh, really?

You're right. We shouldn't have let the extradition go on to take him down there. We had you first. We arrested you first. We should have tried you first or at least not use that as a predicate for this. So sentence commuted to life wow life in prison there so um is it uh fucking after the other uh well that's the thing he's down in north carolina serving life down there so um this yeah that's uh how he does his thing. Now, the kids' lives, quickly here, the kids' lives, they covered this case in a 2003 episode of Forensic Files, apparently, which I haven't seen, obviously, about the deaths of both of these women.

And the kids were saying at that point they still loved their father and they still believe both of their moms died accidentally. Oh, my. In 2003. I hope in 17 years they've changed their accidentally. Oh, my. In 2003. I hope in 17 years they've changed their mind. Yeah, they were still young. I mean, the one girl was, I mean, nine and what is that? Nine and eight. She's in her teens.

I mean, they're like 20, 21. They're children still. They said, yeah, they, man, he managed to, they said the kids stayed together. First they lived with their aunt and then their grandparents, but their grandparents couldn't care for them permanently. So they landed in a foster home, which was actually a good home for them, though, but it was overcrowded. Its location made it hard for them to continue school in the district they were already in. Its location made it hard for them to continue school in the district they were already in.

So in 1996, the kids were searching for a new foster home where they could all stay together. And the AP put out an article about it in 96. And 100 families applied to adopt them, which is pretty fucking awesome. That's wild. County authorities narrowed it down to 20 because you know if 100 applied 50 of them are pedophiles 20 of them are like weirdos that want to write a book about them or some creepy shit take them on talk shows and make them circus freak 20 of them like to cram houses full and accept all the checks yeah and then there's 20 who are like those poor

kids let me help them right so that's who they were looking at. And I hope that the kids got to pick. Wouldn't that? Oh, God, I wanted that so bad as a kid. To be able to leave and pick someone. Just to have my pick of the house that I could go to. Ah, that's the best. Wouldn't that be amazing? You guys are great, but your house is a piece of shit.

That fantasy? Yeah. The fantasy of that? Yeah. The fantasy of like, my real parents did this. Having my own room. Yeah. Oh, the dream.

The dream. So,'s what they narrowed it down to 20 the kids are ages 12 to 15 they decided on a couple whose own children had grown up and moved out of the house so this is like the best they've already raised kids they're successful so like hey maybe these kids won't be fuck ups. They move them in. They said, though, they hadn't forgotten about their original dad and that another account said, quote, they write him and they're allowed one phone call a year. They've mailed him photos and sent him tins of cookies for Christmas. So that's what he gets. They participated in school sports in school. A couple of them went to college.

They went on to, you know they're doing well the oldest child randy uh he grew up to work with at-risk young men at uh george junior republic i don't know what that is and later joined a philadelphia area crowd management company as an intern and rose to branch manager great good for him sandy the one who sandy and randy sandy and randy sandy who heard the horrible things she graduated from north carolina state and as an employment recruiter and like you know all that sort of thing doing shit like that so good for her and candy what does she do and yeah and the youngest todd okay he trained with the civil air patrol when he was 16 and joined the u.s air force and became an mp great air force in 2006 um he said

oh he was one of the people who uh uh came to the aid of a child at the scene of a shooting as a matter of fact too so nice guy after his military service he's worked in online marketing for several several years and now he has his own company in pittsburgh so incredible good for him right not bad i'm happy to hear the kids didn't have meltdowns they all yeah that really says something about their support system because that could have went really bad for sure those kids the kids are resilient but when it comes to to childhood trauma and shit like that that's rough man get it and they're older too yeah that depends on who it is if that happens at that age you can get real bitter real fast but

so many people were willing to help and they yeah they got they're just very lucky that that happened like that that could have went really bad uh tim on the other hand he uh he is in a medium security prison at the nash correctional institute um his prison record showed that he has good behavior no infractions or escape attempts yeah that's good there's no wives in there there's no yeah it's like well let's go escape for a wife to kill and uh now uh he december 3rd 2018 okay he is up for parole in north carolina yeah the commission is gathering information as they weigh the whole thing um if they do decide he could be released as early as next month uh december 2000 december

13 2018 officials uh parole officials grant parole yeah to tim in uh north carolina he uh obviously you know was happy with that but now he's just in time to be transported right up to pennsylvania to serve his life sentence up there how about that so he can go fuck himself still in prison um mary elaine both marianne and elaine are both buried in the same place they're at the uh saint stan uh stanless and saint anthony cemetery in allegheny county in etna pennsylvania so um same area too going up there i guess so they wrote a book there's a couple of books about this one that looked like the most inflammatory and one i wouldn't look at for this sort of shit is called Please Don't Kill My Mommy. Jesus God.

Please Don't Kill Mommy. It's not my mommy, mommy. Is this mommy? Please Don't Kill Mommy by Fanny Weinstein. I wouldn't fucking read that if you paid me a million dollars. That is the most inflammatory shit I've ever... Please Don't Kill Mommy. And look at the way it's written too like

mommy's a little bigger oh good lord the pictures the true story of a man who killed his wife got away with it then killed again yeah that's what it says on the front rub into this oh she you know she's flicking away lord fanny chill out fanny that's available if you really really need to see that and there is tim nowadays by the way there he is looking like an old tim tim looking bad you look like shit sir look like shit you look like a guy that makes teeth he looks like he totally makes teeth 100 fucking percent holy shit now for some reason there's an address to write to tim what so i have it here in case you want to say you're it here in case you want to say you're an asshole or whatever you want to do here send him a butthole print there he is you

can ask him about his butthole making things uh at smart communications slash p-a-C-Z-K-O-W-S-K-I, letters E-A-3-7-9-7, letters S as in Sam, C as in fucking, never mind, it's going to be really dirty there. And then I, S-C-I-Green, P.O. Box 33028, St. Petersburg, Florida Florida for some reason. What? 33733. I don't know if they use that as like a mail clearing house. Yeah, it goes through it. P.O. boxes are cheap in Florida. I don't know what it is. Makes sense. A lot of people on the lam down there hiding from

the world and, you know, they do that. So, yeah, if you want to write to that asshole for some reason, you can go ahead and do that. Otherwise, we are just thrilled that those kids are not fucked up beyond yeah you know i'm sure they have problems i'm sure they went to therapy and they're managing beyond they're managing and they're thriving in life and they're doing well and we couldn't be more happy for them because that is absolutely awful against all odds babe

against all odds you figure one mother's enough. Your dad kills one mom. That's one thing. But then you get it done. Think about those poor kids. You get it done. When your mom dies, you would think life is over, man. That'd be horrible.

And then on top of that, your dad. He found a carbon copy, Mary. Yes, that's what I mean. Another woman who's just like her really sweet adopts it isn't isn't like fuck your kids i want my own kids is like a literally adopts these kids as her own and everyone said she treated those kids like they were her kids never had a never any thought of you know step this or that it was mom and like it's crazy and why would you do that to your fucking kids this guy's an asshole truly like it's one would you do that to your fucking kids this guy's an asshole truly

like it's one thing to do that to your wife but yeah dude to be able to to be able to sit there and go i took their one mom away and that hurt him bad and they seem real happy now but i'm gonna fuck that up too yeah like what kind of a sociopathic narcissist lunatic do you have to be it's a serial killer yeah yeah he could have done that how many times and then he put on the front of i'm going to church and i'm making dentures and i'm such a nice guy and drop of a hat he'll kill you like what the fuck man this is a this is a serial killer who like was raised better than a serial killer so his path was like toward legitimate things yeah but he still had to like do it there's still gonna be things that happen yeah he's almost like btk like if he got

away with this who knows if he would have started doing other weird shit and branching out yeah but it's strange because he kills for like necessity right not necessity but for like a convenience convenience in life yeah it doesn't seem to reset button doesn't seem to be an impulse right but it seems to be a solution like his his standard like well i guess i'll kill her and move on that's his turn it off and turn it back on again exactly that yeah that's his power reset wait 15 seconds it's a very strange thing that you i don't know i don't know how to do it the same way because he's like well that worked the first time right he's a bright guy why wouldn't you think like i better come up with a i gotta come up with another pretty elaborate accident i am kind of impressed though that uh

that he had a dismount of like because getting rid of a body is hard man yes you that's that he didn't even try that i'm not even gonna bother somebody else to do it cpr on her here she's right here as an accident yeah at least she didn't do like i don't know she disappeared right and then she's found in the woods right skeletonized a year later in a fucking oil tank which we've had before so there you go that is uh ross township pennsylvania yeah suburbs of pittsburgh and that's just a real asshole truly we'll say it's just a huge asshole. Hope you enjoyed that show about that giant asshole.

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so that's how you can help the show and that costs you absolutely nothing totally free and takes 20 seconds so please help out by doing that if you haven't yet also uh if you want to help out the show a little bit more well first of all you can get a hold of us uh we are at uh small town murder on instagram at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook you can get a hold of us there do all of that um go to shut up and give me murder.com yeah right now you should go all the time because we have new merch up all the time and it's fun stuff so check all of that out uh get on shut up and give me murder.com most of all though get your tickets for the virtual live show january 29th yes and for three days afterwards right you won't know it's it'll feel live yeah it'll three days afterwards 72 hours after that you

can buy it as well it equates to afternoon on saturday in australia that's what i heard yeah saturday it's friday night and it's like 1 o'clock in the afternoon, somebody said. They're like, this is going to be great, so party it up and do that. Hang out with us. It's going to be a real show, real episode. We did the Prisoner Dating Game, which was so fun, but this is like a real episode

of the show. We're going to sit down. We have all the visuals. We're going to use a big screen behind us. We're not going to use the pop-up digital one like last time. Because that was cool, but this is going to be bigger so you can really see everything better. And I want them to be able to see you. Okay. Because you react.

A lot of the jokes are visual, and I'll put a joke up, and then Jimmy sees the joke, and then he reacts the same time as the crowd. But if I'm showing it to you on my laptop, it doesn't have the same impact as if you look behind on the screen. That way the audience looks with you. And the screen's a little smaller. And it's a big screen. So we're going to have so much fun doing that. We cannot wait. Real show.

God damn it. It's almost the road. I'm looking forward to it. We're pretending. That is shutupandgivememurder.com right now for that. And also get your merchandise. Patreon is cooking hard uh this week on patreon for for this show uh small town murder we are going to have a wild murder case from michigan

where you will be happy with the outcome actually you're going to root for the murderer for once and uh sounds strange but it'll make a shitload of sense when you hear it and it's so much fun and it's not even like there's no child molesting or anything people are gonna go it's gonna be a molester i don't want to hear nope nope none of that it's even better than that no no diddling occurs but you'll still just be like yeah it's a lot of fun check that out and on crime and sports we are going to do the death of steve mcnair who was a you know very respected high-tier all-pro quarterback in the NFL who was murdered by an acquaintance, we'll say. So check those out this week. You can get all of that at patreon.com slash crimeandsports.

And anybody over the $5 level gets access to those shows and all the whole back catalog of Patreon, everything like that. It's a lot of fun. And also, you're going to get a shout-out at the end of the show because you're a goddamn producer now. You're a special, extra special part of the show that we honestly can't do the show without. Listen, you're very special. Listen, you're all very special, all of you.

So, no, it's true, though. We can't do the show without you guys. So, thank you for doing that. You're going to be a producer. Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show. That is patreon.com slash crimeandsports to get all your bonus episodes and your terrible producer credit mispronounced thankfully thankfully and uh on top of that if you want to just be a producer get your name mispronounced which is fun and of course just have great karma because you know that you're

helping people out that work hard for you you can do that as well by uh dropping something over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com right that said i gotta tell you jimmy the only thing that would make me feel better after something like that is i need to hear the names of the people who would never ever ever try stage a death and and say we accidentally drowned in a hot tub please jimmy hit me with those people right now this week's executive producers are carol braun welcome back carol thanks jordan bennett happy birthday jordan shauna rogers yes it's a big deal it is we love jordan and simon simon messaged me to remind me and i already knew but he reminded me uh happy birthday jordan also shauna rogers rebecca scarris uh dominique dominic villanueva uh sybil sierra clay thorson again again great guy you're one of our favorites

thank you so much everybody matt henkel uh michael rosen robert sarber uh emily roberts cammy renee yokum um jacob williams and krista zachman thank you guys so much thank you really unbelievable you are the superstars thank you so much dominic dominic wanted us to mention that it's his father's 20th uh anniversary of being sober that's whoa holy congratulations congrats i have his name hold on i'm better than this i've got a name god damn it it's somewhere it's carlos Villanueva. That's who it is. Congratulations.

Stay on the path. You're doing great. Your son's very impressed and proud of you. It's awesome, man. Really, honestly. It's a big deal. Other producers this week are Brendan Ables, Andrew McCoy, Amanda Knight, Sinead O'Bray, Kat Jablowski.

Really? James Marder, Susanna Platt. Is that Jablonski? That's what it is. It's not a W. Sorry. Susanna Platt, Tracy Renninger, Jesse Pitts, Simon Sheed, Payton Meadows, Maria Kip-Susley, Jessica Johnson, Athena Bullock, Cindy Escamilla, Jessica Mazary, Eric Wagoner, Morgan Schmidt, Walter Long, Savannah Storms, Lenny Blunk, Lanny Blunk, Alexandra Weber, Aldo Felici? Felici. Hey, it's a Felici.

Yes. Catherine Collado, Caitlin Smith, Rebecca Dakin, I think, Dianetta Piazzo, Janine Heidelbaugh, Janine Heidelbaugh, Thomas Coletta DeMello, Janice Hill, Amy Folsom, Kristaline Reynolds-Rivas, Ryan Dempsey, Amanda Platner, Joanne Ahern, Rob Wilson, and his lady love, Tarnia Goodsell. Both. I think that's who she is. Thank you, lady love, Tarnia. It may be somebody else.

Richard Johnson. You've got to be kidding me ashley vo uh chelsea bronco branko maddie cakes uh fine confections jessica ballot balacio steve chanel rachel what echo eco bow ecodo ecobedo and her and her What? Echobo? Echado. Echabedo. And her boyfriend, Trey. And it's his birthday. Happy birthday, Trey. Wow, a lot of birthdays. I can say your name, Trey. That's an easy one. Liz Vasquez.

Dave Bach. Clifford Martz. David Lynn. Greg Norris. Mo Isle. Oh, Isle Saffi. Troy Graham. Frank the Cat.

A.J. McCoy. Jorge Torres. Alexander Duke. Alexandra Duke. Skip Bayless, probably not, Shauna Corbett. It'd be great if he was giving us money to rip him and call him a douche. Amber King, Dwight K. Schrute, probably not, Bo Bennett, Josh Davies, Chad McGregor, Kathleen King, Lindsey Peters, Curtis Hammond, Dave Brown, P that's Dave Brown. Brown. Jesus. The old quarterback from the Giants.

Right. Piper Jones. Don DiBartolo. Hey. Why is it so hard? Charlie Insomnia. Hannah Hendrickson. Colton Patton.

Beth Farrington. Amy and Kay M. Cirovic. Backlog Frog. Michelle Lopez. Sarah Becker, Josh Eagles, Ryan with no last name, Troy Matysich, Jody Ahrens, Richard with no last name, Ryan with no last name, Brad Bradford, Sabrina Doherty, Stephanie Perry, Elizabeth Salvador, Jason I don't know if that's a D or an O. John Robinson, Nathan P., Matthew Fainter, Lil Drumgold, Emma Fiedling, Delilah Brown, Lexi Allen, Jackie Goetz, Chaz Faisal, Kelsey with no last name, Juliana Gomez, Cassie Pritchard, Steve and Brittany Weber, Lisa with no last name, Barbara Cosme, I think. Nicolette Paul. Yasmin Safter. Sephora? What? Sephora.

I don't know. Lonnie Cowleys. How's the makeup? Brian Paul. Ann Barnes. Crystal with no last name. Jeffrey Herman. Moving on.

Jesus, this is brutal. I kill myself every week. For what? For what do I do this? You guys love this? Do you love this? They want to hear their names. Jasmine Hudson.

They've done something and they deserve recognition. Damn it. Do you love my punishment? Maggie Cowan. Eliza with no last name.ine deluca chelsea roebuck britney lafond uh nadia nydia s no last name will touch it that's pretty perfect i hope that's real uh tony littles kathy danky uh ben davidson justin sherwood ashlyn russo brent brannon brandon watson eric westfall tanya nash christopher hawks uh peggy downing dave brown again ernest contu jr i wonder if it's two dudes or just one i don't i don't know thank you everybody named dave brown uh conan baldwin

jennifer weathers daniel donnelly john howard barco verruder how jeff davidson ariana anderson Howard Barkover, Jeff Davidson, Ariana Anderson, Lauren Vargas, Al Guerin, Nick Owens, Jessica would know last name, Camille Carr, Dot, Stephanie Fladd, Ryan Pringle, Lisa would know last name, KV Mann, Justina Ditton, Ann Barnes, Zach Shoemaker, John Justice, Sarah Majerska, Shoemaker, John Justice, Sarah Majerska, Eric Johnson, and Peter. Peter. Nope. That's Paul Peterson. Casey Smith, Kara Castle, Tom and Amanda McCracken, Paul Trottier, Trottier, Britain Wright, Rachel Liebman, Caria, Carla L., Alex, Alex Brewis, Dean R., Joe Lynn Graziana, Graziani.

There you go. Grazianiiani it's a graziani it's shannon sheets joseph uh humphries uh alana oh boy iriviera irivie orivrar uh suzanne martinez bryson with no last name morgan willenbrink uh robin o'brien robert o'brien deborah iselle walter cannon uh raymond torres deborah iorio want uh emily oliver chandler daniel uh daniel yeah kevin campbell rachel van sumerian uh andrea andrea peterson patterson aaron stanley ryan clarkin derrick miller evan bunn gina with no last name, Danny Mullins, Kayla Sullivan, Lauren Smith, Joe Freeman, Isabel. Oh, boy. What did I've I've I've ruined your last name for? I don't know what Isabel Dow.

Doe. Doe say to say douche. I don't know what I wrote. Look, you couldn't pronounce it. Casey with no last name. Sarah McGee, Tara Saverwald, Abby Moriarty, Corey's cause. know what i wrote look i you couldn't pronounce it either casey would know last name sarah mcgee tara saverwald uh abby moriarty uh cory's causets tim burleson alexis cabello diana uh evans ashley cleem timothy burleson i said that oh it's tim and timothy two different same name uh two different

email addresses so i'm not sure if it's the same person lindsey whitney thank you yeah for real thank you both or one of you nick muir uh amanda sir uh sir serminski jess suarez gorski nicole takakis takax nancy stender amanda amin uh trinity with no last name i hope it's uh uh dennis rodman's daughter jamie moon emily martin jamie houseman thomas with no last name helen young jeffrey stokes nick with no last name patricia patricia chapelle chapel uh brandy grissom oh boy giving giving what you have guinea you have jenny livich uh you have guinea maybe yeah you've given it you've given you've given it. You've given me. Clint Brown. Russo with no last name before. Cynthia Parker. Josh Monk.

Monsuski. Monsuski. Pasqualina Ilari. I think. Probably not. Teresa Perron. Kieran Mann. Becky Mueller.

People with bad names to pronounce love this. This is their favorite. Jamie Hawkins. Ron Atkins. Bad names, he says. Like they chose them. Natalie Barath. ounce love this this is their favorite jamie hawkins uh ron atkins natalie barath kenny fritz joseph shaw tracy bryant gary long samantha with no last name trey thomas sandy atkins gavin hutchison blake cavalli cavale uh bryce smith megan beidle i think think, Lisa Brodeur. Here we go. Andrew Sullivan, Luke Casey, Katie Weidman, Amber McVeigh, Chandler Martin, Ben Johnston,

Carlos Villanueva. That's the one. Hey, look at you. Steven Colosin, Veronica Salinas, Garrick Rock, Damon Motts, Brianna Sanders, Kimber Street, Kara S., Rachel Griffin, Kevin Roan, Nicole Burke, Josie Davis, Michael Walsh, Chandra Banton, which, by the way, I got questions for you for her. Okay. Lauren Stidham, Jenny. I think that's Lauren. I'm so sorry.

I have bad penmanship. Jenny Bukowski, Pamela Oliver. I hope it's Pam. Yeah. That'd be great. Thanks, Pam. Trace Childs, Tiffany De La Torre, Olivia Lewis, Andrew with no last name, Jessica

Perry Ash, Omar Gardia, Siobhan H.M. Foreman, Georgiana, Roy Compton, Luke Blank, I think Katie Howard Hayward, Mullins, Nicholas Nolan, Jason A. Spencer, Darrell

Nixix Jake Jacob Morton K Heather Akers Loretta Honick Crystal Robinson Reagan Taylor Tim Trejo Lucinda Powell

Yanni Cho Charlie Watkins Shannon Von Alt Kathleen Soller Jessica Aguayo Rafael Demlao Justin Tolentino, Bob Menzel, Lindsay with no last name, George Farmer, Ethan Emmons, Don Nuclear, that can't be right, New Silar, Andrea Martinez, Anna Otto, Niall Flynn, Amber with no last name, Anita Martinez, Jeremy Foster, Michelle Martino, Oscar Park, Stacey Lane, Joyce Winstead, Thomas Sizzler, Brad Logan, Matt Kuehl, Ashley Thompson, Amber Goad, Dylan Donis, Caitlin Lester, Cammie Parks. Monica Nichols, Amy Stanton, Keith Humphrey, Sky Young, Joshua T., Brenda Ramey, Christian McPeak, Luke Tway, Joshua T. I said that.

Janica with no last name. Ashley McComiskey. Christy Lee, Daryl Kelly, Mike Moore, Rachel Hannigan, Dylan Leahy, Patrick. Nope, that's Ricky. What? Ricky Harmon, Matthew Ankle, Allison Walker, Chelsea Hanson, Gabby Reed, Cecilia Soderling, Alabama Sassafras, Noel Browning, Drew Shockley. Thanks, Drew. Cody Dyken.

You can't be right. Paul White. Sybil with no last name. Janice LeBeau, Olivia with no last name, Miranda Beckard, Zachary Holsey, Matt Mills, Johnny Janowski, Brianna Patrice, Colin Bradley, Anthony Ream, Allison with no last name, Katie Range, TJ Savern, Chris Leonard, Carlton Merritt, Allison with no last name. Katie Range. TJ Savern. Chris Leonard.

Carlton Merritt. Chris, nope, that's Charles Samuelson. Jace Kuhn. It might be JC. It might be Jace. Carlton Merritt. Eric Belf. Jody Marie Miller.

Don Notten Reyes. Sophia Halkias. Faye with no last name. Jeff Olson. God damn it. Chase Miller. Chase Lynn Miller. Hey.

Oliver. That's Oliver, not Miller. Catherine. All of that, and it's wrong. Catherine Ascoff. That can't be right. Ascoff? Ascoff is fine.

Is it? An Ascoff? You just said anything with ass in it. And a cough? And a cough? That's a fart. Oh, like a full, I think like K-O-F-F. No. Ascoff is a fart.

Yes, that's different. I thought A-S-K-O-F-F was what I thought in my mind. Damn it, Catherine. That's a tough name. That's tough. Amanda Sartain, Little Egg, Josh Ortiz, Fisher, Phil Hall, Doug Mather, Rich Mills, Tiffany Brinkmuller, Kay Alves, Catherine Webster, Brazia Saylors, Clay Dedrick, Chelsea. Nope, that's Kelsey Swanson, Faith Perry, Frankie McKenzie, Garrick Wichin, Monica Zirkle, Brittany Verdot, I think. Mike Toms.

What is this? Ann Winton Meyer. George. Nope, that's Richard. Gross. George. Those aren't close. No.

M. Kemshaw, Shannon Pitney, Robert Beams. By page six, Jimmy starts to really, the fucking wheels fall off the truck here christian yates juan juarez uh shannon pitney i said that richard bims robert bims austin osment carly smile a smile uh matt roten uh christy zarust juan chito suarez uh theresa lintner last page rebecca scoville jennifer pritchard derrick would know last name a purple roblox 4798 uh chase prater uh sarah stokes keisha and mike mcdonald aj rezac uh ash smith tinas and angus evan would know last name lisa morrison kimberly laura kimberly would know last name and laura would know last name and all of our patrons. You guys are terrific. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, for everything you've done for us all of last year, you guys kept us afloat. You kept us going and you continue to do that. And we really hope you guys sign up for the virtual live show because we're going to try to throw down really hard and give you guys something. I'm excited about it. Something exciting. Yeah, we're excited because even though you're not going to be there it's going to feel like you're there

because it's the closest thing we can we really do love doing the live show so we can come out and interact with everybody and see you yeah we want to see yeah we don't know i mean we see twitter and stuff but as far as we know you could all be robots we have no idea until we get to a theater and there's a thousand people and we go holy shit those people are real it's amazing so thank you for everything like that what if they wanted to say hi to you or thank you how could they find me on the internet at wisp and sucks whisman sucks on twitter and instagram and thank you guys truly so much it's also uh uh clay uh clay thorson's wife melissa it's her birthday happy birthday melissa thank you guys so much happy birthday thanks for everything thanks for being around birthday. Happy birthday, Melissa. Thank you guys so much. Happy birthday. Thanks for everything.

Thanks for being around. Truly, we can't do this stuff without you guys. Where can they find you? Matt, Jimmy P is funny. You know how to find people on the internet. Copy and paste my name and you'll make it work. Yeah. So that said, thank you again, everybody, for joining us this week.

And we're going to keep coming back week after week. We have such a wild slate of shows for you. We're pressing hard hard we're not going to take our foot off the gas we promise that and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.