Small Town Murder - #209 - You Want One Of Her Bones? - Whiteside, Tennessee

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

This week, in Whiteside, Tennessee, we head to the backwoods to follow the tale of an absolutely horrible killer, and some very odd side characters, including a man who currently lives in a tent, deep in the trees, while hiding from police. The inevitable murder is a callous, and horrible act, that definitely didn't need to happen, but to one depraved person, it apparently did! Along the way, we find out every holler has its own strange culture, that it's a bad sign when your teenager leaves the house in the back of a pick up truck, and that some people have no shame, or even humanity! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Whiteside, Tennessee, a series of simple clues leads to a most unrepentant killer who seems to bask in what he feels are his accomplishments. back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you again for joining us. We're so excited, as usual, for horrible things, which sounds strange, but when you hear the show, you'll understand why. We are very excited this week, and we want to thank everybody for everything you've done for us and continue to do for us, like especially those Apple podcast reviews, the purple icon on your phone. We don't know why those reviews matter, but they seem to matter a lot in the charts so if you haven't done it yet give us five stars say something it doesn't

matter what just give them what they want and it helps us so and it's free for you so thank you for doing that uh also if you want to be a producer of the show you definitely definitely definitely want to get in on our patreon here you want to do that patreon is cooking patreon.com slash crime and sports for lots of bonus episodes anybody above the five dollar level gets access to everything both shows crime and sports and small town murders bonus episodes our patreon this week or the ones we did last time where we had the real good fellas kind of mafia one for crime and sports we did our love after lockup season three review so good was the last one upcoming next week uh we have worst wrestling characters of all time on

crime and sports which i don't care if you like sports or not that's all that it's just hilarious terrific it's just terrible showbiz and then on small town murder this is one of my favorite ones the old west murders right oh my god just gonna take a bunch of, you know, 1870s Old West crazy murders. And there's some like Wyatt Earp stuff in there, too. Some James Gang stuff. It's pretty cool stuff. So I can't wait to share that with you guys. Patreon.com slash crime and sports.

Plus, you're a producer. So that means at the end of the show, Jimmy will read a long list of names, mispronouncing 80 to 85 percent of them. But he will be thankful. And we are very thankful for doing that. That's patreon.com slash crime and sports. And if you just want to be a producer and a wonderful person and have good karma and get your name mispronounced, you can do that as well over at PayPal. Just use our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. Thank you for everyone that does that.

Use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Thank you for everyone that does that. Also, head over to the site, shutupandgivememurder.com, where you can get all of the merchandise and future live show ha-ha tickets. Yeah, all that stuff. So head over there and do that. We're very excited to do that. Quick disclaimer, this is a comedy show.

It is. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. Everything is real here. We're not making anything up for comedic effect that's the sad part because all of this is real um you might say what comedy and murder what are you talking about well you know there's a lot of stuff that goes on around a murder obviously the actual murder isn't funny no that's awful a couple. We've heard very few funny actual murders. It just doesn't happen, really.

So it's everything around it that's funny. First of all, it's about a small town. We've all been in small towns, lived in small towns. There's always something to make fun of. Even if you love the place, you're like, this is pretty hilarious. So we're making fun of that. We're making fun of murderers. Good God.

What other recourse do we have? Make fun of an idiot who tried to do something and did it poorly and couldn't get away with it. So if we go out of our way to do and try our hardest not to do is we make sure not to make fun of the victims or the victims families. Why? Because we're assholes. Yes. But we're not scumbags. Let's have this.

That's what I'm saying. Let's do it. That sounds good to you. Let's go. I think we're involved in this. Come on. I think it's time jimmy it is time it's time to shout shut up and give me murder let's do it jimmy let's go on a trip okay shall we let's uh let's head on down to tennessee deal now this week i must warn you ahead of time we uh sometimes people will say like oh you guys are mean to the south which guys are mean to the South,

which we are mean to the South, but we're just as mean to everywhere. So it's definitely not specific to. That's why we say don't get offended when we're making fun of a place because every place we've done, we've made fun of equally. It's a roast kind of a thing.

That's the whole thing. We make fun of where we're from too. That's the point. It's a roast. It's a joke. We don fun of where we're from too that's the point it's a roast it's a joke we don't care we're going on what other people say about a place that we've never been for the most part so we don't give a shit also if you love it then who cares what anybody else thinks i mean you should be able to laugh a little bit at least they're saying your town so i'd be happy about that so fuck down this here this area is some backwoods hillbilly shit yeah this is no joke we're not just joking around this is like people in the south would be like oh those goddamn hillbillies

jesus yeah you don't want to go around there like it's it's bad this is where it's all hollers okay it's all hollers in this area boy tennessee whiteside tennessee it's actually egypt holler to be exact is it really but uh white side is the town there and i'll show you how all the hollers lay out i have a topographical map egypt holler egypt hollow but never said like that in that area um this is in southeastern tennessee just north of the georgia border i'm talking just north of there this is some deep bumfuck egypt that's what it's there this is some deep bumfuck agent that's what it's called this is some deep stuff right here about an hour and 50 up to nashville 20 minutes over to chattanooga yeah so it's you can get there quick but it's like separated from the it might

as well be another planet it's just this separate little thing we're in the hollers hey uh two hours and 40 minutes to pigeon forge which was episode 182. We did it back in July 2019. That was the two shot glasses of blood episode, which was absolutely insane. So anytime we're in Tennessee, it's always nuts. Tennessee, West Virginia, certain states have just an Elan. They fucked with blood on them, didn't they? Well, then they, yeah.

On the floor in the blood there was blood drinking forced blood drinking that was a mess that episode just that crime not the episode uh it's in marion county area code 423 motto here they're trying to attract tourism really so they've seen other cities try to attack track tourism so they're like maybe this will work but i feel like when it's this it's it just sounds scary uh quote what happens in them hollers stays in them hollers that doesn't sound right right vegas uses it we can't i feel like that that just sounds like you're gonna get uh like sexually assaulted in the woods doesn't it while a banjo plays that sounds scary to me gonna lose some

innocence i feel like it so a little bit of history of this town now uh the uh first of all in the late 1700s dragging canoe lived here what dragging canoe was a uh was a cherokee uh guy here and he was kind of a head of his little group and uh he lived at running water which is what this town used to be called white side used to be called running water at a chickamauga cherokee town at the time so it was a it was a it was an indian town cherokees you know were occupying the whole place during the american revolution and afterwards dragging canoes forces were sometimes drawn by joined by the chickasaw and the shawnee and some other tribes along with british loyalists and agents of spain and france to fight the americans so yeah it was a whole because they saw it as encroachment on their area

and they were like let's fight these guys you want them out of here too yeah i'll do it with you and i'm sure they british told them, make a deal. If you do this, then once we beat them, we'll make sure that no one's allowed to settle on your little plot of land. I'm sure that was the deal. And they would have lied to them and taken it all, I'm sure, also. So there was a series of conflicts that lasted a decade after the Revolutionary War. That was all sorts of shit that you don't really hear about. the revolutionary war that was all sorts of shit that you don't really hear about it sounds like they had the revolutionary war constitution was like you know immediately signed the day after

the last shot was fired and then they had fireworks and a flag went up on a thing and then fucking george washington was on a dollar bill that's what it sounds like you know happened in in the world but that's not what happened at all it's a lot messier than that so they um all this shit happened dragon canoe became the preeminent war leader among the southeastern indians really he was the man here he served as war chief of a group known as the chickamauga cherokee from 1777 until he died in uh 1792 he died of exhaustion or probably more like a heart attack because they had a battle that they won and so they had an all-night celebration

and he danced all night and then dropped dead. Really? Yeah, so they think he might have had a heart attack. Too long of a day. He was an old guy. That's what happens. You fight all day. You dance all night.

Can't do that. Yeah, so either exhaustion or just heart attack probably. So now Whiteside used to be running water, used to be Aetna and A-E. Aetna with an A. Like the insurance company. Yeah. And then Aetna without the A also and running water. So they just name it something different every once in a while

it's named after james anderson whiteside who's an attorney and a railroad promoter and land investor attorney yeah an attorney railroad promoter and land investor so probably just a real asshole i assume i'm not sure dude with deep pockets deep yeah he uh was a leading citizen in the best sense it says um he uh never this is from an account of the day never a very strong man physically he was temperamental temperamentally self-controlled kindly mannered careful and methodical in his own affairs and in those of his clients so he's a kind of a nice guy quote one of nature's gentlemen that's what he's that's what he was called by people here they Everybody said they praise his kindly and considerate management.

So he seems like a real nice guy. He did cast his vote in favor of secession, so that's not really a great move. It wasn't the nicest thing there. Now, railroad tracks and the Whiteside Train Tunnel and the Whiteside Trestle in 1863 kind of were a big deal for the civil war because it was passage and any kind of transportation during the civil war was big you were constantly trying to take over tracks destroy tracks like rail was how you got lots of shit somewhere fast otherwise it was you were walking it that's not easy put it in wagons and we're walking it's way

harder than uh throw it in there and sit down and shovel some coal in the fucking fire it's much better here so um here is a map of the area as i could show jimmy here i'll show you a couple little maps here's white side okay there's devil's pocket by the way right up there which sounds scratch ankle hollow scratch ankle holler there that's there that's there's a bunch of that pucker brush yeah that's all up in the scratch ankle there scratch you up water tank holler there it's that i'll show you the topographical map in a second too because egypt holler is this way okay that's murphy holler this way there down murphy holler road and there's egypt holler road go down that way that's how it works um i found a town legend i couldn't find any reviews of this town because

honestly just nobody goes here seems like the type of place where you're like oh yeah you want to go around that probably um sidestep that you won't sidestep that because uh what happens in them hollers stays in them hollers i hear and i'm saying that'll be you staying in them all right so the legend there seems to be a legend and i've read several stories written about this that aren't you know said to be true accounts but like accounts of this legend type of thing uh of a short fat girl who lives in the woods okay and a short they keep saying the short round human-like creature uh who will uh comfort an injured person in the woods and then uh rip their insides out uh through their side they'll rip in put their hand in and pull their organs out like a

fucking claw game that's real yeah it's a real thing no i'm sure it's not i mean it's a real it's a real legend yeah like obviously it's not fucking real like that's really yeah that's a real story that's their story yeah i mean i don't know, that's really, yeah. That's a real story that they believe. That's their story. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's like the Blair Witch type of, you know, quote unquote. You get lost. Yeah. A woman will comfort you.

A woman, a short, fat woman. A short, fat, right. Girl. Right. Okay. Younger will comfort you. And then she'll take everything inside you out of your hip. And you'll think everything's fine.

And then she'll dig in, like, I believe, above your hip, under your ribs, I would assume. It's a little pocket. Well, I mean, otherwise, in the hip, under your ribs, I would assume. It's a little pocket. Well, I mean, otherwise, in the stomach, you got a lot of muscles there. It's pretty open on the side there. It's a good place to extract. I feel like you're going to yank that out. Devil's pocket. Devil's pocket.

Like a claw game and pull it. So that's what happens there. They are dumb. That's a special. That's, I guess, like the local Bigfoot. I don't know. All right. Hillbilly chupacabra.

Going hunting for Mabel. The hillbilly jackalope. Well, that is a jackalope. Yeah. The Tennessee jackalope right there. She going to pull your organs out, boy. Holy Christ. Watch out for the Tennessee jackalope.

Woman-like creature. Woman-like creature. Yeah. Short and round, they keep saying. So people in this town, 132. Wow. Damned souls reside here. This is a very small area. Super small.

Very small. 20 minutes from Chattanooga. Nobody's here. That's what I mean. It seems like people are avoiding this on purpose. It really seems like it. If you walk down a street in New York for 20 minutes, you've passed more people than live in this town. 20 minutes?

You could just take a snapshot of a sidewalk on a block. There's more people there than on this town. This entire town. The whole town. At our live shows, we get like eight of these towns in one live show. That's unbelievable. How crazy is that? So population here is up 14 since 1990

for some reason i don't know why it's cheap that's why probably female population is almost 60 yeah which is way way way way out of whack women want to live here i guess well it's just old okay 10 of the population is 85 or older. Wow. It's normally under 2%. It's normally about a percent and a half, 85 and older. 10% are 85 and older. But James, that's 14 people. Yeah, but still, 14 of the whole town is 85 or older. What's happening here?

How are they living this long? 44% of the population is over 60, and there's basically no children here. That's unbelievable. There's a couple of babies under 60, and there's basically no children here. That's unbelievable. There's a couple of babies under four, and that's it. There's no kids from four to 12. They don't exist. 60% of the population are 40 or older.

44% of the population is over 60, the other way. No, no, no. You said 60% over 40. It's 44% over 60. Because I the 14 percent yeah of the other one yeah okay yeah yeah older older very old it's an old town yeah uh married population here this is remarkable 14 14 how is that possible it's normally 50 50 it's 14 really weird the stats obviously with a small 132 the sample size is so small you get some hilarious stats uh single with no children 55 that sounds like just like spring break yeah

that sounds like yeah i'm going there party this place is fun oh get down 50 no one's got kids everybody's single yeah nope everybody's old well they're single because their spouse died right a long time ago and you know they're single because they're widowed or widowers want to hear the widowed percentage normally it's 5.8 okay here widowed 34.7 boom more than a third of the town are widows man think about that oh that. Oh, man. They died in a mine. This is a story town. One dies young and the other dies when they're 112. Right.

What a weird goddamn thing. Race of this town. You know, normally we see whites like 62%, blacks 12%. Here, 100% white. Yeah. So everyone here is old and white. Wow. You can pick average resident is just,

you know, I think the last time we are there the most, it was like 96%. Yeah. This is, we've never had it, right? I think we have before.

It's on a small, it's always a small hundred percent, a hundred percent. No non white person lives here, which is pretty remarkable. It sounds on on purpose if I'm being honest with you 35.9% are religious which is actually much lower than the normal 50-50 which is

every time we see a town with more elderly it's like that I feel like once you get to a certain age you're like no God would let me do this no God would let me feel this awful and not let me die not it would never happen all my friends are dead yeah why would a god do that to me i feel like they really by the time you're that old you or that you just forgot that you were yeah you forgot

to go to church and then you're not religious anymore i used to do something on sundays i woke up and i feel it i guess i'll jar peaches is that what i do on sundays i'm not sure uh 36 religious like i said uh 17.2 baptist because baptists are the catholics of the south obviously and then it's kind of spread around pretty evenly a couple of this couple of that 0.0 jewish though and uh 0.0 islam very low though just ain.0% Islam. Very low, though. Just ain't no God in the holler. That's it. Only that fat girl who rips your pancreas out.

She's kind of a God, I guess, if you could rip a pancreas out in one shot. They've seen the devil down there in the dark coal mine. I ain't seen God, but I've seen the devil. I know that much. That's when I knew there ain't no god because i saw the devil saying the devil unemployment rate here is about almost double the national rate at this point um the median household income is higher than you would imagine though it's about 57 and a half thousand the rest of the country here it's about 43 000 which is low but a lot of times it's it's because chattanooga

is there so you can okay if you can you know hitch a ride on the back of the turnip truck, you can get on into Chattanooga as it passes by. Terrible. I just picture the jerk, Steve Martin and the jerk, standing outside and getting taken from one fence post to another. 70% of the households make $50,000 or less. So everybody makes $43,000. It's not an average because some people make $10,000 and some people know, 80. It's everyone makes $40,000. That's it. Jobs are all transportation and warehousing. So I feel like there's one place that does something and that hires most. There's a warehouse where you can move shit around there. And then there's also the job

where you move that shit onto a truck and take that somewhere drive that shit away or you can just go to chattanooga because it's 20 minutes away and there's probably work there we either hold shit or move shit that's your job who's holding shit and who's moving shit it's your turn to move shit james you're moving shit jimmy's holding shit jimmy jimmy it's your shift to hold shit now get on in there and hold that shit all right i'll be back to move that shit in a minute god damn it i'm doing something i told you that shit all right i'll be back to move that shit in a minute god damn it i'm doing something i told you holding shit moving shit how hard is it to hold shit i'm the one moving all this shit you're just holding it anybody could hold you're sitting there smoking

cigarettes and hello jimmy here hold shit move shit jimmy and james hold shit move shit no he's not here he's moving shit how y'all doing no i'm the one holding shit today today jimmy's moving shit so if you need to talk to somebody you're gonna talk to me he moving shit today it's his move day that's why we switch off otherwise i get boring hello this is james uh i'm here so you know what i'm doing jimmy's not so you know what he's doing james holding shit what can i do for you no no he's moving shit he's moving she not works here um so that's a good business we're gonna i think we're into that james and jimmy's holding moving

shit we are doing great with it but we have so many of these side businesses popping up it's amazing honestly this show has been it's going to be lucrative someday when we get all of these businesses that we've launched off the ground i feel like at this point that bezos gonna be impressed it's gonna be something right it's gonna be something that's basically what amazon is holding shit and moving shit hold shit move shit that's us pretty much everything anywhere that doesn't make sense. Some people hold shit, make shit, hold shit, then move shit. See the shit I'm holding and then Jimmy moving? Well, I made that shit first.

Yeah, that's because I got three friends, not two. We make the shit, then I hold the shit, and then when we need to go somewhere else, we move the shit. So it's a lot of shit to move. Now, Jesus Christ. Cost of living here is 80 out of 100. Sure. So it's higher than you would imagine for the middle of nowhere, but not the housing. The housing is very low, 46 on the housing.

Median home cost, $106,100. Oh, my. There's really nothing available. There's not a lot available because it's so small. But of the occupied houses here, this stat is to make you this is i've never heard anything like this before i had to look it up somewhere else to make sure it wasn't a typo on one site 40 of the houses are worth less than 20 000 what is that 40 of the dwellings that people currently occupy within it with their homes and their grandma, because

they're 100, are worth less than what could be worth less than $20,000. That's a dwelling. That's an absolute. That's actually a travel trailer, right? As I say, that's a used car. Like, what are they living in? That's something that you actually drag behind a car. It's not like a trailer that you can set.

That's an actual trailer. It's like a 2016 camry what the fuck are they living in i've never heard of that before i'm not trying to be a snob but twenty thousand dollars it's not two hundred twenty thousand dollars i don't know what house you can get for twenty thousand you can get a travel trailer for for 15 20 grand i said well that explains this a lot then because wait till you get to this it'll actually explain the uh let's do it the white side tennessee real estate report okay your average two-bedroom rental which doesn't exist here is 740 theoretically

but that doesn't matter it's the idea it's the idea of it if you believe in it it's there now here we go i found 114 acres okay looks like this yep that's this dwelling on there what is that jimmy what is that a camper is that a camper nope just a camper yep that's camper yeah probably about less than twenty thousand dollars i think that's a house that's one of them that's a dwelling that's a dwelling this is a zero bedroom zero bathroom 114 acres on this on the side and top of etna mountain uh wow with a four by four road at the top of the mountain property holy shit part of your property is on the rock face that's pretty much what it is here uh five hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this you're out of your fucking mind yeah no one wants to do that. I guess they've hosted parties and bands before,

so it says you can make additional money if you host a concert here. Gee, thanks. Wonderful. I found 41 wooded acres on Egypt Holler Road here. Oh, boy. On the Georgia side, though. It's right just over the Georgia side. But 41 acres, $99,000.

That's a deal. That's a deal. I mean, that's a scary 41 acres of wooded you know north georgia that's rough that's rough territory there but uh 99 grand there there's like snakes and shit yeah uh three bedroom two bath uh 1162 square feet it's decent not terrific but it doesn't look like a shack or a travel trailer uh it's private actually it's down a little hill 145 000 bucks for that so that's all that's available to buy even in the area horrifying horrifying selection you can host concerts over here if you really imagine your real estate agent you give them what you need they come back with that shit well here you go i got this um secure gated spot to park and camp at the bottom of a mountain, it says, is the one thing.

This place is awful. Just sell the Holiday Rambler and park it out here. You can all do it. That's right. Things to do. Smoky Mountain Fiber Arts Festival. Fiber Arts. Just because I was like, what the hell does that mean?

That's exactly what I did. Fiber Arts? Fiber Arts? It says, this is the top of the website, which I find lovely here. Learning keeps us young. Preserving and sharing local heritage arts keeps us grounded. If the old proverb, idle hands are the devil's workshop, we've got the antidote. Exploring fiber arts this spring.

I don't know what that means. I don't know, but they're mixing religion into it, too. Yeah, why you got to pepper in idle hands? What's up with the devil here? It's the 11th annual Smoky Mountain Fiber Arts Festival. I think that was last year. Presented by Townsend Artists and blah, blah, blah. Tennessee Valley Hand Spinners Guild.

Yep. That's what it is. It's fucking knitting and shit. Yeah, I think it's knitting and shit here. The admission to the festival is free and open to the public. They just need you to please come and get something. Pre-registering. Please come.

Please come. I know. It's just, I know you don't want to watch me knit, but I, come on. You don't like it, but. You can pre-register for hands-on classes if you want to learn how to do it. Please come. Please come. You can, you can learn too.

That way you don't have to just watch me. We can talk while we both do it. We'll talk. It it'll be fun we can be friends because i don't have many friends um be aware our most popular classes sell out early by the way so yeah watch out here uh festival focuses on the sheep to shawl concept yeah the festival focuses on the she on the sheep to shawl concept and visitors will see the transformation of fleece into finished goods and art pieces. The second annual fashion show will offer an opportunity for vendors, instructors, and participants to model their artistic creations.

You're weird for art. The fashion show will be Saturday at noon in the amphitheater. Holy shit. They fleece a sheep and show you how to make that shit into yarn, and then they show you how to make a shawl. Congratulations. Wow. Also, the Native Americans of East Tennessee find out what archaeologists have learned

about prehistoric life in the Tuckaleechee Cove from pottery, stone tools, and other artifacts found in one of the largest archaeological dig projects in Tennessee history. you could have just asked them if you would have not fucking murdered them they would have told you they were thrilled about telling you they would have told you everything you could have found all sorts of stuff what's so magic about native americans you could have people there now they tell you unbelievable stories yeah they're happy to and it's all real also east tennessee mountain culture which doesn't need to be celebrated you'll see a log cabin made of hand hewn logs and learn about one room schoolhouses and grist mills wow while cultivating an appreciation for the resilience and ingenuity

of pioneer people of the smoky mountains riveting whoa and then we'll use uh some guy who has some assumptions of what the natives used to do you know he's gonna tell us i mean we'll tell you all about the one room schoolhouse after we killed them all uh we look through their shit and i think we got what they do i think we figured it out i'm not positive we're fascinated with what we killed and uh we want to share with you what what they do and also up the up the road a little bit here not in this area but a little bit up the road is i just had to put it down because it's crazy the dunlap coke ovens bluegrass festival coke ovens coke ovens bluegrass festival they're into some mining down there yeah we got those here it's right in the

name of it people love talking about the coke oven Well, I saw a picture of this festival and it looks like a stage in somebody's yard, like this terrible stage. And it has like this, you know, banner that you made for $60. And it says the, you know, Dunlap Coke ovens bluegrass festival on it. And there was a bunch of big bearded hillbillies that all look like Jessica White singing on stage. It was crazy. Yeah. Crime rate. What we're interested in here in this town uh property crime more than double really which there's 140 people who is stealing shit and they're all elderly what do you do that's what i

mean is this old ladies old lady fight did they bust an old lady fight club last year and it's a what happened you think that's crazy violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime more than triple more than triple the average what the fuck is happening they must have two three really bad kids right it's like two they don't have any kids good point there must be like be like two. One grandma is a dick. Yeah. And she is just vicious. Vicious, apparently. And they can't put her away because she's so old.

They feel bad. She keeps getting acquitted. Right. She keeps getting bailed out. She'll do it again. They're like, now, Ethel, we told you. Cut that shit out. Not taking it no more.

We're going to put you away finally. And she's like, no, you won't. They got a Mamie. That's right. So that's somebody so uh that's uh somebody eisenhower white what what oh mamie white yes i was thinking of somebody maybe i'm who is that one of the eisenhower is it real yes okay so uh murder let's talk about a murder yes we're we're interested in here murder let's do it let's talk about a murder yes we're interested in here murder let's do it let's get into it

okay now first of all i gotta show you the area in in topography for a little relief map kind of the area here that's the same thing with the big water that goes through there's the water white side was the road and then there's white side uh-huh um now we have your different hollers now they've got your um your water tank holler, your Etna holler there. That's where that mountain is, where that one house is. You live right there. Now the other side of that house that you could buy, that's the big steep slope, goes on down into Devil's Pocket. So you want to be a half there, half Devil's Pocket.

You've got your Klaus holler. You've got your, what is this here your scratch ankle holler there right strip mines over in this area that's uh that's what you want there scary uh there is the georgia border by the way that's how close we are i mean it's like you could walk to the georgia border from the center of town uh and right here is egypt holler that's where we're going to spend most of our time in the egypt hollow area between murphy hollow and the windy mountain so uh yeah it's uh this area and you see how it works though it goes through there and these are all these little hills with these little like tight valleys these little hollows as they call them so it's a weird uh you kind of have to see that

to understand it and i'll post on social media too bizarre little place bizarre little place it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes? You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a

weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So let us talk about some people in this place. Let's talk about first a young lady who's not from this place. Lucky for her. She's not from here. Tara Stowe.

Tara Michelle Stowe, to be perfectly accurate. She was born December 27th, 1971. Old Tara here. And she lives with her grandmother in Tiptonia, Tennessee, which is pretty close nearby. Tiptonia. tennessee which is pretty close nearby um tiftonia i think it's rather like near chattanooga but you know not on this side of it on another side of it so she lives in tiftonia and uh on note on in november of 1986 she is 14 years old gonna be 15 in december obviously on the 27th and um you know she lives in this area her grandmother who she lives with

had gone to dallas for several days and tara was staying with her aunt whose name is betty davis yes of course fantastic fantastic right so um tara's hanging with betty davis now uh uh on On November the 29th, 1986, about 8 o'clock p.m., Betty Davis leaves her mobile home, as ones want to do, in Tiptonia to pick up her mother, who is Tara's grandmother, in Chattanooga. So, yeah. So Tara is at the house here. Tara and also Carrie, who is Betty's other daughter, were left in the mobile home with some of their friends. So she's got a 14-year-old daughter, and she leaves the house with three boys there. Okay. This is John Dagnon. Dagnon.

Yeah. John Dagnon, David Dagnon, and Tony Dagnon. All the Dagnon boys are there? All them Dagnon boys,agnon. Yeah. John Dagnon, David Dagnon, and Tony Dagnon. All the Dagnon boys are there? All them Dagnon boys, come on over here. You Dagnon some bitch, I tell you what. That absolutely sounds like an old Southern man who can't think of a way to insult you. Them Dagnon bastard some bitch. I'm so angry I can't get words out my mouth i'll tell you what

so she goes to pick up her mom and leaves her daughter and her other daughter there with three boys with three boys and how long she's supposed to be you know why i mean it's gonna be at least an hour i mean enough time to for everyone to be pregnant by the time you get back everybody's got a dag none in them everybody oh man they dag none me good i got dag nunned up but uh yeah so tara uh she talks on the telephone here um as well she talks to some people on the phone um and uh she talks to one young man who is an acquaintance of hers yeah and his name is homer teal yeah he's 20 years old why is a 14 year old on the phone yeah with a fucking 20 year old that's why we need to supervise sometimes but i mean it's hard to if it's a 14 year old they

kind of an almost 15 kind of have to trust that this and that you can't really control who you talking to on the phone and i need to see identification it's really difficult i it's hard you have to kind of trust that you hope you did it right or you hope that they're just you know not snowed by somebody or some shit like that but anyway uh she uh is talking to this guy by the way his nickname he doesn't go by homer teal obviously at 20 years old what do you think he i'll give you guesses what's his name homie homie no no no butch yeah but that was my next guess well i figured it was homer butch teal it was either that or buzz buzz butch champ yeah some weird shit like that i don't know so uh she talks on the phone with him for a while while the dag nun boys are there up to

no dag none good none i'll tell you what they are up to no Dagnon good. None. I'll tell you what. They are up to no Dagnon good. That John Dagnon, he ain't bad, but boy, when you get that David and Tony together with him, that's a different story. All the Dagnon just comes on out, them boys, and you see it just arising to the surface. Too much Dagnon fun. Too much Dagnon fun. Now, later that night, Tara takes off with her friends, John, David, the Dagnon fun now um later that night tara takes off with her friends john david the dagnon boys there in the back of a pickup truck yeah driven by john's father oh so yeah he came to

pick the boys up and she joined him they all hopped down in the back of the pickup truck and headed on yonder to egypt holler okay that's what they did here they're heading to egypt holler the community and marion there the dag the dag nuns live of course in egypt holler um and egypt holler egypt holler doesn't even have like a like a isn't even a town it's not a thing it's just a weird place where people are yeah that's what i mean it's that's very township no no city just no you're gonna set up shop around here yeah it's a road egypt hollow road that runs in the center all these hollows have a road that runs down them and that's whatever hollow road and then just people live like up in the hills off of it yeah that's literally what it is they live in the hills

it's weird man that's basically what crown king is if you've ever you haven't better than that never mind i don't think i have it's a it's basically an arizona holler that's yeah it's weird take a dirt ass road into the place yeah it's 27 miles from the freeway yeah 27 miles of dirt road you pull off and then you get into the quote-unquote town of crown king that is basically you know a hollow six six trailers and yeah i mean there's a there's a couple of dag nuns couple buildings in there that's a restaurant a bar and then a quote-unquote hotel yeah you don't want to stay in there it's all spiders it's all spiders it's just spiders holding hands man spiders ain't even a building that bed looks so soft oh my god it's all spiders

it's just a big way i I'm stuck. Help me. Help me. Holy, that's the biggest damn spider I've ever seen. It's just spiders. Oh, man. So she takes off with, you don't want your 14-year-old daughter in the back of a pickup truck with three dagnons? No.

Not one dagnon. Fine. Three? Three dagnons. I know. I'm not doing that. So in the back of the pickup truck headed on yonder to egypt holler there so they're going there she is let out uh about 10 p.m near a trailer where butch

teal lives with his grandmother okay so god damn it you don't want your 14 year old hanging out with a 20 year old in a trailer in a hollow you just don't want your 14-year-old hanging out with a 20-year-old in a trailer in a hollow. You just don't want that going on. And she's just going just there by herself? Well, they let her out here, and we'll talk about what ends up happening here. We need to get into Butch a little bit here. Butch Teal, 20 years old, local ne'er-do-well. That's all. I mean, honestly, think about it.

What do you think? He's got a bright future? He's killing it. He's not. He's got a dot-com. He's got it. Right now, yeah, he honestly, think about it. What do you think? He's got a bright future. He's killing it. He's not. He's got a dot com. Right now, yeah, he's blowing up. It's the 80s, so he's really ahead of the curve. He's way ahead of it.

He's like 10 years. A lot of people don't know. That is Elon Musk's birth name. Wow. Homer Butch Teal. Butch Teal. That's impressive. He's made a real life for himself.

It's pretty impressive. So Butch, local ne'er-do-well, local hollow shitheel, he's raised by his grandmother at that point because he never met his father and his mother died when he was 14. God damn it. That's a tough way to start. Yeah, you're living in a place that's not an easy place to come from. No father, mother's dead, living with grandma. way to start yeah you're living in a place it's not an easy place to come from yeah no father mother's dead living with grandma um he spent his entire life in egypt hollow this is i mean this is just what he knows this is it there's nothing else he only went to school up until

the ninth grade which is when you're 14 which is when his mom died so i feel like once mom died he was like well don't need school fuck that like Or maybe he would have been just too overwhelmed to go to school for a while. And once you don't go to school for a couple months, you're like, I guess I'm not going back to school. She was the one making me. I'm not going back. Yeah. I mean, grandma, she don't even know. I tell grandma that there's no school no more.

They stopped doing school years ago, grandma, you old bitch. Grandma, they don't close that damn thing. What do you think there's government money no you dumb shit old lady what's wrong with you so smoke that weed grandma everything be fine grandma with these pills she got a thing my grandma she got a thing and this is monday tuesday when she take them all yeah all of them right down the middle right down so he lived there goes to school up and not didn't finish ninth grade just you know just quit in the middle in the middle so

he's got eight you know eighth full grade there and uh about the time that tara gets there uh tim sexton and butch teal were driving to betty davis's trailer so they're crossing paths here on the way sexton is told by butch teal that that james dagnon this is amazing james dagnon one of the dagnon boys he is currently because they're like where's james and he goes oh well he's currently living in a war in the woods up in the hollow there um there's a fourth dagnon that's living all alone in the woods james lives in the woods was james one of the three no no john david and tony yeah you're right there's a third one this is a fourth dagman fourth one i mean yeah fourth dagman this particular dagman oh my god the dagman boys sound like a nightmare it's a

problem yeah the dagmans i feel like everyone in town knows the Dagnon boys, and they cause a lot of problems, like the Dagnon bastards. It's become a word. So, yeah, this, Jesus Christ. So he's living off in the woods. He's living in the woods in Egypt, Apollo, because John Dagnon Sr. had taken out a warrant on him charging James with, quote, Jesus Christ, whipping little David Dagnon.

So there's a David Dagnon, too. And James, quote, put a whipping on him. And I don't know if that means he actually whipped him or if that's just he beat him up or whatever it is. But, you know, in whatever southern parlance we're dealing with here. Either way,

a warrant has been taken out against him, which, again, sounds like you know in whatever southern parlance we're dealing with here either way he took he's a warrant has been taken out against him which again sounds like that you can only take out a warrant if you live in a holler right i think right dad can take out the warrant anybody i'm gonna take a warrant out that sounds right doesn't that sound yeah it doesn't sound in civilization you can't just take out a warrant feels like the police are supposed to take out the warrants. Yeah, it feels like he called the cops and then the police are looking for him. Not, I took a warrant out on him. Does that mean you hire a man because there's no police force? No, no, police, I'd like to take a warrant out on somebody.

Yeah. Huh? What now? Listen, he whipped my child. Like with a whip? No, and he is my child. So he whipped himself? See, that's where you're wrong. Oh, this is is my child. So he whipped himself? See, that's where you're wrong.

Oh, this is real confusing now. And now he lives in the woods, so I need to take a warrant out on him that I can arrest him. This is all very confusing. You're going to have to call a little bit later when Tony comes in. He handles this sort of thing, really. I'm just mainly like a speeding ticket kind of guy. I don't really know how to do paperwork and stuff. But it's my day down at the hold the shit. That's going to be your problem here.

You got the holding shit, moving shit. That's going to be your problem. If you're holding shit, you got time to worry about this. I've got a typewriter. I will write the warrant. You do that up and put that like with some tape on your refrigerator and you work on that. All right, then. Okay, goodbye.

I believe that's how the call went. He's like, I took a warrant out on you, boy. They told me. I better run to the woods and live in a tent. So now this guy lives in a tent in the holler, which sounds like a nightmare. Because dad's got a warrant. Because he put a whooping on little David D dagnon according to the what this says here um now james dagnon who's a cousin of jack john dagnon senior and david dagnon was tara stowe's boyfriend okay the 14 year old is going

out with the guy who lives in the woods because his dad took out a warrant for whooping another one. Okay. Okay. So, little Teresto, 14, her boyfriend lives in the woods in a tent. My God. Which is exactly what you want for your daughter. It's all I ever wanted for my daughter is to find a nice boy who lives in the tent because his dad took a warrant out on him.

This is wonderful. So, yeah, that's how that goes. So the whole thing is what they're saying is Butch Teal is saying, yeah, you're looking for James. He's living out in the woods, blah, blah, blah. I can take you to James. Okay. That's how this works.

James wants to see you. That's how it goes. James misses you. James misses you. He's really lonely out there. He's just sitting in a tent in the woods. He can't come to town. He That's how it goes. James misses you. James misses you. He's really lonely out there. He's just sitting in a tent in the woods. He can't come to town. He's got that damn warrant.

You know how the warrant works. If his dad sees him, he's going to pick him up. I mean, no, the cops don't care. His dad typed it himself, I think. I don't even know. Took out a dag-none warrant. He wrote it on the back of the menu down from the diner. It's just a paper menu he wrote over, like, the breakfast breakfast section it's just a marker so you could see it he has a warrant for a biscuits and

you could either arrest him or you could order like some hash browns and some smothered covered either one the white gravy's got sausage in it you know how it works there it's good stuff so they take out a oh god so upon arriving at betty davis's uh butch teal asks for tara and is told he should have been told uh you're way too old for her and i'm gonna call the police if you don't get off my property instead he's told that she had gone with the dag nuns to egypt hollow Hollow in the back of a pickup truck. This is great parenting all around. The two then drove back to Egypt Hollow there where they found Tara, 14 years old. It's dark out nighttime.

She is sitting in the hollow on the steps of the church, just hanging out. Nothing going on on just sitting there waiting for somebody to come back and that's like the central part of the area so everybody drives by there you got if you want to i'm so worried i'm this is just ridiculous right i'm so scared for her i know this is terrible so tara uh tells them that she's waiting for James Dagnon. That's what she's doing here. And Butch said, I know where he is. He's in the fucking woods. He's trying to avoid getting arrested by the posse that his dad hired when he took out that warrant.

I feel like if you take out a warrant, you have to hire your own posse, right? You can't expect the police to deal with that. That's not a taxpayer thing. Do they have Egypt Holl holler marshal or some shit what is this how do you get how do you get a warrant that you don't have the police involved in i'm the sheriff of egypt holler we don't have a police for yes we do it's me god damn it look at my badge and i my brother is the marshal i said so that's right that's it that's it oh hold on let me ask my dad the judge judge dad can you so this is um this is wild so um he's gone to

he's gone over there and uh uh jesus fucking christ so he says i'll take you there. I'll take you to your boyfriend. Let's do this shit here. So they drive away. James Butch Teal, Sexton, who's the one guy, and her all drive away. And Sexton is the oldest because that's the dad's cousin, right? It's some weird. It's crazy. This whole thing is just too much. It's a spider web of fucking.

Of, I don't even know. Of Dagnon. Of, it's a Dagnon spider web. Tell you what, it is a Dagnon spider web. So she, wow. She says, yeah, I'm waiting for my boyfriend. They said, we'll take her there. They drive down Murphy Hollow Road, which remember remember from the map, is just west.

Right. It's the next holler west of Egypt Hollow. Over there on Windy Hill. Over there. No, that's the east. That's the other way. Egypt Hollow is in between this holler, the Murphy Hollow, and the Windy Mountain. Got it.

That's in between there. So there you go. It's Murphy Hollow Road. Got it. That's in between there. So there you go. It's Murphy Hollow Road, and Sexton drops them off because he's not going to drive up to the tent. It's in the woods. So Sexton drops them off at a large rock beside the road at 1035 to 1040 p.m., somewhere in there, which is just what you want your 14-year-old to be dropped off near a large rock with a 20 year

old at 11 o'clock at night this is great and that's your street sign yeah the big rock the big rock over there down the holler it's not an address nope it's the big rock that big rock beside the road wow it's the only damn big rock over there jesus um so uh butch here uh said that he and tara were going quote up the mountainside because that's where dude has a tent all the way up in the up in the hill there so he said we're going up the mountainside so sexton said oh cool i'll come with you and uh butch said no uh you can't come because james told me that he only wants tara to be there i'm just dropping her off and leaving and don't bring it he said don't bring anybody else because he doesn't want anybody knowing where he is because he's got a goddamn dagging dagging on warren out for him and he just

wants to be private with his location like they're gonna like they're gonna comb the woods for this kid you know what i mean so uh sexton leaves and the last thing he sees is them kind of turn to go up into the holler there and uh no one ever sees tara again of course not she disappears into the woods because of course she would right oh my god what like i said if you're a parent and i'm not saying this it's lucy it's the 80s too so it's a different time and it's a i think they generally thought they were safe in this area too which is obviously also just the lifestyle they leave there you just wander around that's what i mean it's an insular town it's an insular place and i feel like they don't normally nobody normally gets killed probably so you just

don't think your kid's gonna get killed because everybody knows everybody so you know what i mean i don't think it's bad parenting. It's just the parenting that went on back then in that area. The sign of the times. And it's bad parenting. Yeah. But I mean, count on that. I don't think her grandmother was like that terror.

I hope she disappears at night. I'm going to let her go into the woods. I don't think it was like that. I think that the parents thought she did. Kids are fine. But clearly they should have thought more. A lot of that doesn't happen around here exactly unless you look at this unless you look at the statistics and that fucking happens there all the time yeah look at our show it happens at least 210 times in this place it's three times the national average and the other thing i don't

you wouldn't want your your young you know a younger teenage not like you know want your younger teenage, not like 18, your younger teenage daughter wandering into the woods at night anyway. There's like bears and shit in there. It's the woods. It's dangerous. I don't want my kid in the woods at night. Forget human monsters. There are actual monsters. What about the short fat girl that rips your organs, your pancreas out?

Pulls everything out of your fucking side pussy. Yeah, what happened to her? I don't know what they do. That's bad stuff there. So no one ever sees her. Obviously, her family reports her missing. And Detective Bill Schroeder of the Marion County Sheriff's Department begins investigating the disappearance of Tara on Decembercember 4th 1986 so for some reason it takes five days yeah from the time she disappears to the or four days probably because by the time the night came they probably didn't do it till

the next day so it takes four days for them to start an investigation on a missing 14 year old that's crazy i don't understand what i don't know if that was like i said lucy goosey with the rules and curfews like i don't know tara's probably staying in her friend's house and then you know she didn't come home still for two days let me call around and ask about her and then nobody picked up for a day and then the next day they were like maybe i should call the police i don't know if it's just real casual child rearing three days i mean three day weekends i mean people take people take those off i mean jesus jesus somebody call the cops i mean let's call the cops now is this thanksgiving yeah exactly so they ask around yeah and uh they find out obviously that she's been seen with the dag

she was with the dag nuns they were over the house and then also uh her grandmother says well the one boy came over and asked for her and i said she was already gone and that was butch so she's describing all these people and so you know there's so far about five people that have uh five young men that were around her that night that we know of right before she disappeared so they're gonna start there it seems like a good place to start the last people to see her alive or just anywhere so um the officer here the detective bill schroeder he went to the teal residence to talk to butch find out if you did you see her where'd she go who'd she go with do you know anything now while he's talking to butch

he notices a class ring on butch's hand which is strange because Butch dropped out in the ninth grade. Right. What class is this from? What HVAC course did he take that gives him a class ring? You didn't get an eighth grade class ring? I did not get a dishwasher repair certificate ring when you graduate from whatever the hell that is. I didn't at all. I don't think roofing school gives you a class ring probably like i just don't see it with this guy so the detective was which is a good catch for a detective by the way to catch

that and go that's a class ring he didn't go to high school even so why has he got a class ring on pretty good shit so uh that at that point he learns that uh once he talks to some other people he learns that homer butchie is the last person that anybody saw with tara right traced it out to where last time anybody saw tara sexton was driving away as they were walking up into the woods up up to up the mountain ascending the hill next to the big rock. That's it. So, yeah. So Detective Schroeder goes back to the trailer on the night of December 4th,

and he meets with Butch, and he tells him why he's there. And he says that, you know, where'd you get that ring? Why do you have that ring anyway? So Butch tells him about the ring, and we'll talk about what his story is. Basically, he says, he gave it to me to hold. There's a lot. See, the only jobs here are holding and moving.

Holding shit, moving shit. Holding shit, moving shit. And literally, it was his turn to hold shit. Yeah. He said, hold my ring because I got to move shit. I don't want to lose it. So you hold all this shit and my ring while i move the shit but you can go walk around so kind of you'll be holding and moving yeah hold move that works but

the ring if you consider the ring shit and you're moving shit because you're walking around but hold it while you're moving certainly hold on that hold that shit while you're moving that shit all right so he uh meets with him and tells him that you you know, the ring is suspicious and that's a suspicious. You're holding it for your friend. That's a weird. Why would you hold? That's a weird thing. Your friend can literally hold that with zero energy by, you know, putting it on his finger.

Yeah. So he says, well, we're going to talk to you when you come down the station. And he the detective advises him of his Miranda rights. Yeah. Because at this point he's not a witness anymore there's something that makes him even slightly a suspect so the cop actually the detective does the right thing and that's exactly when he's supposed to mirandaize him right when he goes from who knows or a witness to even a slight bit of questioning in more of a

suspect way so at this point butchie asks uh butch asks if he's under arrest and the detective says no but it's possible he may be under arrest later who knows we'll see how the day goes basically i mean it's kind of up to you chief it's early we'll see it's real early out there we'll see what happens he uh then consents to go to the station and he remarks that yeah i'll go i got nothing to worry about i don't mind okay. Okay. I don't give a fuck. I'll head on down there. So why does it matter that he has a ring besides the fact that he didn't finish the ninth grade? Why would that matter?

I mean, that's everything. Yeah. That's all of it. Yeah. That's most of it. That's most of the crux. Unless he said, like, I found it in a dry creek bed or something. Other than that, I don't know what other excuse would be for I have a.

It was my dad's. I don't know my dad. So that's not even it that's all the suspicion i need to ask him anything i need to ask yeah why are you wearing a class ring class ring dipshit what else awful do you do well yeah where do you who did you pry that off of so um uh both betty davis and tim sexton saw james dag nunn's high school ring on November 29th, the night Tara disappeared. It was on Tara's hand because that's James's ring and he gave it to Tara. By the way, he's a high school graduate making him how old?

Yeah. 18 or so. Who's he going out with? A fucking freshman. A 14 year old. James is 20, right? Yeah. I don't know if James is 20, but Butch is 20.

Oh, by the way, she is in eighth grade. Oh, gross. She's in eighth grade. How does that not, as like a dude, even if you... She's in junior high. Yeah, but even if you're like a guy that's like, I don't know, it's just four years. It's only four years. It's not that big of a deal because I'm a teenager, too.

How don't you look and go, she's in eighth grade. Nope. That's weird. Yep yep fucking weird disgusting gross and weird when you're a okay 18 year old to 20 year old yeah boys shouldn't like you the second year that old you should be like oh man i can get these adult women right this is amazing i not get them, but I can try to talk to these adult women. What if I can get a 21-year-old woman to agree to put me in her mouth? I bet she knows how to do stuff. I had no interest in any 14-year-old girl. What the hell am I going to do with her?

I don't want to talk to her. She's a kid. That's weird. I don't want to hang out with her. No. No, but they want to hump on her, apparently. Weird. It's disgusting. So anyway, to hump on her, apparently. So it's disgusting.

So anyway, it was on her hand that night. And on the days after the disappearance, several people, including Detective Schroeder, saw that same ring on Butch's hand. So that's a bad sign. Terrible. If the victim had jewelry and she's missing and now that jewelry is on someone else's hand. There's a lot to be inferred there. They certainly want to have a chat with Butch, a serious, serious chat. So at the station here, they go down there.

Butch tells the detective that Tim Sexton, he's like, I got my story. Tim Sexton left me and Tara in the hollow, and the last he saw Tara was she was walking toward the interstate, up toward where we saw. Remember the big road that comes through? Now, I don't know why she would go there to see James and then walk toward the interstate. That doesn't make sense. And if she did, why didn't he walk with her? Did he go up and see James?

Did James ever see anybody? There's a lot of questions that are kind of loose ends there. And where the fuck is James? And that's the other thing uh he's in a tent he's got a warrant out on him from his daddy so uh yeah last that's the last he saw so um at this point they find out that he has he's got a warrant in georgia we'll talk about it there's some paperwork where they can hold him for now they're gonna hold hold him and maybe move him later. But for now... He got some holding shit and moving shit. He's holding shit. See, that's this whole town.

Holding shit and moving shit. Up to and including our prisoners. Yeah, that's right. We hold them and we move them. Move here and then we hold them. Make sure they don't run away and then I move them where I need them to be. So he puts him away here it's a i think that's in mrs

doubtfire when he goes here we here we move it and then we ship it and then he goes see you take it you move it and then you ship it and then i think i've never seen mr mrs doubtfire the whole way through oh well i think it's at the beginning because then they ask him. I can't say you got any questions and he goes after remove it. You ship it. I can't. Can't do Robin Williams. Smartass.

Yeah, I loved Robin. Can't do it. I'm like, please stop trying. I can't take it anymore. It's too much. I loved him when he was filthy as a stand-up that's my favorite yeah that's different but like it bothers me when he has to sell the kids and i like him when he's calm as an actor he's a great calm actor like in the birdcage he's this straight

man i guess but i mean the comedy team and he's fucking phenomenal be that you're great at that don't be annoying be that guy and let n Nathan Lane go do something crazy because he's hilarious. He's great. He's the best. So anyway, once they get to the jail, Detective Schroeder advises him of his rights again, just to make sure. Advised him when they left in case he said anything in the car. Now they got out.

Now we're at the station. Totally new atmosphere. Again, here's your rights. So he's really, really up on that shit. Butch tells Detective Schroeder how he and Sexton picked up Tara and how after giving him the ring, she walked down the road. That's the last he saw. He was like, they dropped me off. She was sitting on there, dropped us off on the big rock.

And she gave me a ring and then walked toward the interstate. I said, bye, and I went home. Is that the holler equivalent of taking off your shirt and walking into the ocean? I guess. I don't know. It's like an Eskimo where they put you on an ice block and push you away. Remember me fondly.

Very strange. Yeah. She's like, I can't take it anymore. Just walked into the freeway? Walked out in front of an 18-er and just right move me sit there with her arms out and her eyes closed and her head back just to take it i don't know that's what he's trying to propose ridiculous story it's a ridiculous story um so he uh uh he said yeah he did that. Walked down the road. Detective said that all through this, he was free to leave.

They hadn't got him on the other warrant yet. But they saw through this, he was free to leave. And at the time, this was the first statement he made. That's his first story. Just handed me the ring and left, man. I don't know. Hell of a story. Just a ring.

I got it now. There it is. I mean, obviously, I got it. It's a daggone ring. So it says right on there. So, yeah, Butch claims, mean, there it is. I mean, obviously, she gave it to me. I got it. It's a daggone ring. See, it says it right on there. Daggone. So, yeah, Butch claims, though, Tara gave him the ring.

What the hell? So, it's at that point they find out about the other warrant and they go, well, we're going to hold you for a while. We might be moving you later, but for now,

we're going to hold you. And at this point, Butch gets super mad and livid and pissed off really oh he said he was calm laid back in the chair just going no no man they gave me the ring and i mean it's cool he's like picking his nails he's real like as calm as can be and then they say they're gonna hold him and he goes ballistic flips out loses his mind and starts, screaming at the detective at the top of his lungs. Everybody can hear him. And finally, he says that Schroeder, quote, would never find or prove anything on him.

What does that mean? You'll never find or prove anything on me, he says. And that's as he's being dragged away to jail. All we're doing is holding you. Well, guess what? No, we're moving you to jail. We'll move you now. And then we're going to hold you in there.

well guess what no your world will move and eat a jail we'll move you now and then we're gonna hold you in there so he uh would never find or prove anything okay which is a strange thing to say to a detective that's what you say it's a proclamation you don't make as you're getting arrested either no it's it's what you say if you're either an idiot and a murderer or you're like a mafiosi where it's like look we both know what everybody's doing but you're never gonna find or prove a fucking thing on me that's a different it's a different game yeah this guy is not in the mafia he's an idiot i don't think there's a holler tent mafia out there with him uh with a class ring on innocent people have never said those words though you'll never find or prove anything on nobody ever no no innocent person has ever said nope unless they someone was

like i'm gonna prove you're guilty he's like you can't prove i'm guilty because i didn't do anything right that's the only way they don't say that way you're never gonna find or prove anything on me i'm bulletproof i'm king kong you can't stop me motherfucker as they drag him away that's that's a guilty man that's a guilty man A very strange guilty man is what that is. Very bizarre, but certainly guilty. So then they talk to him again. During this time they're talking to him again, he starts making weird statements about how to get rid of a human body.

Why do you do that? And suggested a bunch of places where the cops might look for a body. Okay. Like, I don't know. I mean, if I was looking for a body, there's places around there where you could hide one. First of all, he says, wow, he said that he tells the detective that,

I mean, if I was going to kill somebody, I'd feed them to pigs. That's how I get rid of them. All right. Like Al Swearengin style on Deadwood. You just feed them to wooze pigs and that's that. i mean yeah that's that works i suppose so he's telling the cops i mean if she's dead she probably i mean if i would feed her to pigs so i assume other people would too so she's probably either fed to pigs um and he also said another thing you could do maybe check on

this is another idea i got he's got full of ideas of where to stash corpses which is a very strange thing for a 20 year old to be thinking about um unless they have a podcast he said uh that he was talking about you know you could just you dig up a grave and this is what what this is what mob guys did sometimes too you dig up a grave and just put the other body on top of it put a cover back up no one's gonna dig that back up again it put the other body on top of it cover it back up no one's gonna dig that back up again it's in it's on top of a grave it's brilliant you dig down to the casket you throw your corpse on there you cover it back up again that's genius yeah it's it's an old mafia trick yeah but if you get caught though uh now you're charged with desecrating

human remains too i think murder it doesn't really matter certainly desecrating human remains, too. I think murder, it doesn't really matter. You've certainly desecrated some remains. You killed Pauly, so it really doesn't matter at that point. You dug up somebody's family's grave. Yeah. That's psychotic. So that's this for dismembering Vinny, and then, oh, you know what? You did desecrate that grave.

Martha Evans' family is pissed at you. You messed the flowers up that they set out, and all the grass has never, it hasn't grown back the same since then. So we're going to actually have to charge you a little extra for that as well. And you'll be billed for the sod. Absolutely. You're going to be billed for sod as well.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook,

where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California,

Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. He's like, imagine you're this detective. You got this asshole.

You're never going to find nothing, prove nothing on me. He's got the victim's ring on, and he's talking about, I don't know, I mean, I feed him to pigs, or you could just bury him in graveyards. I'm thinking, okay, how many people have you killed at this point? Sure. Have you killed more than one person? Because you seem to have a lot of ideas of what to do with bodies. killed more than one person because you seem to have a lot of ideas of what to do with bodies and then he started telling them yeah various different like places that you should search around the mountains around the area there well i mean there's a spot over in this holler that the blah blah blah and this is like a little cave thing i mean i'd still stuff a body in there no

one will ever find it or there's a thing over here in a little niche where you could drop down this little this little gully where it'll fall down it's a a narrow thing. No one will ever find a body in there. I mean, that's a place I would look if I were you guys after you're done checking all the pigs out. He's clearly been thinking about this a very, very long time. And if you maybe want to dig up all the graves after that, when you're done with all that, check around the hollers. That's what he's saying to them.

All of the places, by the way, are pretty far out there that he's telling them about these mountains over there and this mountain over there on that mountain keep them occupied um and then december 6th this is like two days they keep talking to him he keeps talking yeah he keeps saying dumb shit and everything like that yeah this is when he tells detective schroeder that on the night he disappeared on the night tara disappeared that uh tara left the now he's got a totally new story okay tara left the hollow with james to get beer okay okay because he's apparently old enough to drink and he's with a on walk 14 year old yeah they're gonna walk to get beer obviously

none of these people have transportation so he's gonna leave to get beer and that tara and james were fighting and arguing back and forth i don't know if she wanted to watch spongebob and he was like no i want you know i'm not a child and i don't know what was going on she wanted hannah montana you know how he's like no yeah that's that's the thing when one person wants hannah montana and the other one slits you're gonna have a strange relationship that's not gonna line up right because it's hannah montana is not really a schlitz drunk kind of show you know this is not that kind of thing she wants uh dinosaur chicken nuggets yeah she's looking for the dinosaur shaped nuggets and uh and he wants to get himself some whiskey it's a strange thing very very odd she wants many corn dogs he wants

some cores corn dogs and cores good lord so yeah he tells her not only did they get in a fight right in front of james or right in front of butch he had to witness this but it's at that point that james got the ring back from her was like give me that ring off your hand it's not for you anymore and then gave it to to butch i love you butch yeah he goes hang on to this for me for a couple days why he wouldn't put it in his own pocket yeah who knows but he said go ahead and hang on to this for me and butch was like all right put it right on his finger yeah so that's that um that's a stupid story that is a it's almost as dumb as i don't know she just handed it to me and walked up a mountain handed to me headed off for the freeway almost almost gonna go run with traffic yeah just i don't know where she was going she just wandered out there no ringless started

running up the on-ring you know how it works she said i'm a car now at the jesus she's crazy she got up a good 35 then again she is a child so you know um now the cops know more than they're saying here they're trying to you know lock him into a few dumb stories because it just looks worse uh but they know some shit on sunday november 30th the day after butch told john dagnon that he hadn't seen tara and on the following wednesday he threatened john because he had seen john searching for tara okay um so yeah he said i haven't seen her and then i guess john was literally looking through the woods for tara trying to find her and uh butch came up and threatened him and said you fucking stay out of this leave this shit alone it's none of your

goddamn business. Like, it's my girlfriend, bro. It's his brother's girlfriend, but still his cousin's girlfriend. Either one. Yeah, it's one of his kin's girlfriend. This can. I mean, let's face it here. Yeah, it's all the same DNA anyway. But after the marriage, she's going to be my kin.

Yeah, exactly. So either way, he says that, you know, stay out of this shit. And the guy's like whoa yeah that's a strange reaction to searching for a missing child yeah do you do that for everybody imagine that people hold candlelight vigils you try to disperse them all come on y'all stay out this shit quit your whining that's right she got hit by a drunk driver but it's everybody's got time to go god damn it it. Now go home. Blow those goddamn candles out.

Don't y'all got work in the morning? Shit. Right now. So, yeah, that's not smart. So this is weird because here's another thing. Why is the only person searching through the woods? John Dagnon. Shouldn't there be. Where are the police?

The rest of the hundred and four. Get the 85 year old search. And I don't care. Where are the cops? rest of the 104 get the 85 year old search and i don't care where are the cops where's the state police if this if they don't have the the want to get anything done in this area because then they don't have their own police force i'm sure there's like a county police that's an hour away that they can go to or something sheriff right something over in chattanooga right they come on over the hill from chattanooga i don't know what happens but somebody else yeah

the drafts warrants should be out there where's he yeah he's a warrant drafter he should know what to do here um so uh yeah so he threatens him now butch also asked john if he thought uh if he thought he had hurt tara do you think you heard her and john was like i don't know what the hell you're talking about no i didn't hurt anybody he's like you sure do you think you hurt her and he was like i would know if i hurt a 14 year old girl no i didn't so uh that later on that week on thursday the next day uh butch tells sexton that he got the ring from tara the night of the 29th and the last time he saw tara she was leaving egypt hollow walking toward the interstate so he told that story then told it once before to the cops and then made up a different one about the fight and the beer and the schlitz and take

this there so now ronnie nunley he's another guy he's a 24 year old who hangs out with butch and uh he said sometime after tara was reported missing sometime in the next week he's not sure exactly when because you know the schlitz yeah you he's not sure exactly when, because, you know, the Schlitz. Yeah. You know how it works. Time. What is time? You know, it's some time around it.

What is time? What is time, anyway? Let's think about it. What's time when there's a holler involved? He said that Butch told him, because I guess this kid was like 23, and he goes, I heard some girl disappeared. Like, he was just like, I heard some kid disappeared. And so, you know, what's up with that?

Like it's just town gossip. They don't have the internet. So there's really nothing else to talk about. So no social media or anything. So like did a kid die or disappear some? I don't know. So I asked him that. And Butch said that, yeah, it's this girl Tara

and she's from here. And, you know, she went out with James and gave her the whole bio. And then asked this Ronnie Nunley if, quote, he wanted a bone from Tara. What? That's what he said. He says, you want a bone from Tara? And was laughing about it. Explained who she was and then asked if he wanted a bone from her. I don't like that.

I don't like that at all that sounds real creepy and who knows if he's just a weird creepy guy like you know you're trying to be morbid or trying to be some people like they try to be like too dark and cool like just to be that way just to go too far just to go too far you know so like a shock comic like a shock comic they love jeselnik oh god love big fans big fans yeah so he asked if he wants a bone from tara so this guy was like i'm gonna it's getting late here i'm gonna just tap in his bare wrist right it's the time it's very late i gotta get going here oh boy i gotta dogs shit i got a doctor's appointment right now i gotta get to the gynecologist i'm gonna go now my mortgage is

late it's definitely late i gotta i gotta i have an arrest warrant i'm gonna go turn myself in i'm gonna go turn myself in in another state thank you i gotta go now so uh after speaking with sexton and his parents however uh detective schroeder informed butch that based upon what butch said and what sexton said and what everybody else fucking said, they're definitely going to charge him with contributing to the delinquency of a minor, which is a misdemeanor here. And so at 2 a.m., they arrest him on a juvenile warrant on those charges, and they hold him in the Marion County Jail. That's how they get him now later that morning 9 a.m he's going to be charged again because georgia officers because like we said it's right there informed detective schroeder that butch had been charged with aggravated assault in dade county georgia recently as well okay so and this him getting arrested here

revokes his bond in georgia we can move him no matter what hold on to his ass and if you are going to get rid of him give him to us just move him but just hold him and then maybe move him later but for now hold him okay but don't let him go so they do they request a hold to be put an official hold to be put on the defendant that's all holding this down. Hilarious. So at 11 a.m. after speaking with his family and being given his rights for the 400th time, the Butch gives Detective Schroeder a written statement here. Now, while he's being held in jail, he makes additional statements on December 6th, 15th and 18th, 1986. So all sorts of statements. None of these, though, say where the fuck Tara is, and they haven't found Tara yet. God damn it.

So, I mean, if you're her parents, it's been a week, two weeks. Way too long. Where's my daughter? This is insane. So, now, Detective Schroeder says that he advised Butch of his rights each time he spoke with him, except on the occasions when Butch flagged him down as he walked through the jail and initiated a general conversation about, you know, you see the game last night. Bullshit. Nothing that has to do with interrogations or whatever. So the search for Tara continues on December 27th, 1986.

Oh, by the way, that's her 15th birthday. God damn it. 15th birthday. They search and search and search. Finally, they find her very badly decomposed body on a ravine alongside a creek. Shit. Approximately 65 feet from the guardrail on Murphyphy hollow road so lazy too it's a fucking lazy this asshole uh the body was located 248 feet from egypt hollow road and 3500 feet from the

point where sexton last saw tara alive he walked her over half a mile walked her a little bit yeah walked her to a little little more desolate spot and then just like dumped her in a ravine just dumped her off the guard you know from the guardrail probably you know dumped her down there um it's fucking horrible horrible uh they find her on her 15th birthday so i mean if you're her parents that's it's just horrible man um so they're gonna charge butch with first degree murder but uh there's more to it than that um she is uh it's fat she's found near a church in a wooded area by two hunters near a church near a church by two hunters that's that's not these guys think about this you work all week yeah got a lot going on it's stressful the kids and you got all this shit

and then you and your buddy are gonna go out. And you've been looking forward to this. If that's what you like to do. And you get out there and you're like, all right. Then you find a dead teenager. And you're like, day's over. We fucking ruined this one. Shit's over. Never mind.

Shit. This makes me not want to shoot things. I don't know why. Just makes me have less ambition to shoot anything. I'll think about ever kill anything's child ever again what do you think not to it's it's just mean um so at first when they find her because of the decomposition they said quote we're still trying to determine the cause of death we haven't gotten the autopsy report yet because they had to send her to chattanooga and they had like a state specialist

come in because she was decomposed so badly um just absolutely awful uh they end up finding out with cause of death they end up finding out that she had been raped and strangled yeah this poor girl so that's horrific rape strangled and then dumped into a ravine like just 14 year old yeah 14 year old just thrown over like garbage basically but her ring got taken first though so make sure to take that so expert uh experts said that they indicate the body had probably been dragged into the ravine by animals because it didn't wasn't even that far away from the road like he probably dumped her even less he just dumped her over the guardrail basically basically, and then animals drug her off further away here.

Some 36 feet away from where she was found, they found a dark, wet, stained depression where forensic anthropologists said the body had originally lain. 36 feet. So what did they say they found her? How close was it? I can't remember. Was it 60?

They found her 65 feet from the guardrail and they were he was she was dragged 36 feet so he didn't even it just barely even got her over there that's just lazy too asshole horrible so tree limbs over the depression indicated an attempt had been made to cover the body yep so he just threw some trees on her it was like there you go done fuck man nobody will care sick unbelievable six to eight feet away they found her slacks and her underwear and her pants and her underwear and then certain items were just scattered all around like a piece of jewelry here a hair clip there just stuff in a that you would lose in a struggle right and stuff like he basically not stuff you lose in a struggle like jewelry like he basically took her shit and just

threw it around just took it and like scattered it like throw that over here toss some trees on it that should be good and walk away unbelievable it's disgusting i this this guy is a bad guy. I don't feel that. No, it's going to get worse with this guy. Well, not the whole thing, but he's a bigger asshole. He's just such a fucking asshole. So the body was face down with the jacket, bra, and blouse pulled over her head in a manner inconsistent with animal activity.

So that is what he did. He did that. And her hair was stuck to the fingers of her left hand with coagulated blood. And, you know, this is horrible, man. Autopsy by Dr. Frank King,

a Marion County medical examiner, did an examination on the bones of the throat, particularly the hyoid bone, which we've talked about a lot. And the doctor indicated that the victim suffered trauma to the neck at the time of death, indicating strangulation. Testified the death had been neck trauma consistent with one of the following,

manual strangulation, ligature strangulation, a blow to the neck or a cut to the neck that was not deep enough to reach underlying bones. Just that one. So more than likely strangled her with maybe her pants or maybe him his who knows his hands i mean who the hell knows what he did so from the condition of the body they could make no uh make no conclusion on a lot of things because of that uh like uh first they couldn't tell if she if there was any sexual intercourse involved so they brought in a seriologist who uh found uh sperm consistent with human sperm taken from uh the taken from her underpants so they got that her underwear had it in there so that's what they got there so

this is obviously absolutely the worst thing that could happen horrific to yeah this is a teenage girl being just absolutely thrown away like garbage basically absolute tragedy disgusting so they uh once they find the body now they gotta go once they find tara now they're gonna go talk to butch again see what he says about that obviously let's tell him what we i mean he doesn't know if they're ever gonna find her in his mind he's like i don't know by the way all those sites he told them about we're all miles away from this nowhere near her nowhere near where she was so he was like i would check over on that mountain i don't know i mean i'm not busy and away from her so hopefully she disappears yeah which is it's really ballsy a lot of times the murderers will try to it's an old

trick try to insinuate themselves in the investigation to push it away from them but it's rare that they're already a suspect in jail and they're trying to do that that's a it's just a weird it's weird i mean i get it but it usually like it's so obvious then why would you do it because it just makes you look more guilty directing police traffic yeah um so what does butch think about this whole thing want to want to want to want to punch butch right in the fucking face out of his chair yeah well when detective schroeder informed butch that the body had been discovered and photographed and so you know we have proof of it and you know they try to a lot of times and they'll try to show you the photographs like this is what she is

because you want to see the reaction to it if they're into it you want to see if they're like oh i want to see what i did my handiwork or if they're whatever the case may be whatever body language they exert let's see it let's see what you got yeah it's a it's a if you show someone a picture of something horrible like that you're going to get some reaction from them well when he's told the body was found and photographed you know what a butch said to him lean back in his chair and he said good give me some for my scrapbook wowza so how the fuck does this detective and i'm not for any kind of police brutality but at that point how do you not calmly get up and fucking knock him out of his chair with one punch to his ear and just absolutely rain blows upon him until you physically can't anymore.

He asked for a wallet. You know what I'm saying? Do you get 16 wallets? I'll take three. Give me some for my scrapbook. I don't understand how you wouldn't do it and then just go, I don't even remember doing that. I don't remember turning his brains to pudding. But I don't know.

I must have been incensed. I can't place it. He must have said something. I'm not sure. You're saying I hit him? I hit him. Could give me some for my... Wow. Doesn't sound like me. Doesn't sound like me, right? Ask anybody. I'm a nice guy. I'm pretty well in control, right? I think so.

So I want to kick the shit out of him right now. I really do. So that gets him charged with murder and hopefully the shit kicked from him as well. I really hope that the cops beat the shit out of him or somebody beat the shit out of him. I hope he went in there. I hope when they put him away, he went from cell to cell going, know what he's in for?

Yeah. Yeah. He's real proud of it, too. You know, I really hope so. This is the type of asshole that deserves that. Scrapbooker. Scrapbook. He's a deco page.

He was working on this fucking guy. It's because the scrapbooker, you guys know, hear that scrapbooker like a scrapbook he's a deco page he was working on this fucking guy it's because the scrapbook are you guys no hear that scrapbooker so um when he's being booked for the murder charge he asked the detective how strong he thinks his case is yeah he's a cocky little bastard i don't like him he says how strong you think your case is detective he's all cocky and uh the detective said well i think it's pretty goddamn strong here. I got a lot of shit matching up and everything. And he said that quote, or he said that he had a quote. This is Butch, by the way, a quote, ace in the hole.

And that quote, no one else is in it with me. That's what he said. No, no. I got an ace in the hole and no one else is in it with me. I think he thinks he's an ace in a hole and no one else is in the hole with him i don't think he knows how does he phrase his work he doesn't you don't think he knows that that means that's a trick you know what i mean yeah i don't think he thinks i don't think he understands what he's saying yeah i don't think i think he thinks an ace is good yeah and that's him yeah and he's in a hole i've heard the phrase ace in a hole

heard that once you're looking at him right here brother big time ace in a hole. Heard that once. You're looking at him right here, brother. Big time ace in a hole. And no one else is in it with him. No one's in it with me. Whatever that fucking means. Stitching nine times saves nine. You know how that works, right? What's he doing? I've been telling you that for years.

So later, Butch calls Schroeder to his cell, calls the detective, and he asks him about the elements of the degrees of murder and whether it was first degree murder if you killed a person by accident. Now, he's like, let me ask you a question here. Yeah. This murdery stuff, I hear the first and second. What if it was an accident? Is that still first? Is first better than fourth or third?

What do you want as a person? Is it like the way burns go? Is it backwards? Is it backwards is it backwards or is it you know you know what i mean and and also which one is the one where it's accidental that's what i said which one is that which one is that's the one we all need to talk about now so december 27th he's charged with first degree murder to answer his question and uh counsel was appointed for him statements are given and uh he is uh asked questions about all this shit now while he's in jail several inmates from the jail for marion and franklin county jails testified later on

that butch either admitted the killing or made very incriminating statements to them he's just going around the jail telling everybody what he did. He's bragging about it, which is amazing. And you know it's like a small-town jail because if you were in, like, let's say you were in Maricopa County Jail. You would not go around bragging that you raped and murdered a 14-year-old girl because you would be dead in, like, three hours. You would be fucking absolutely dead.

In any prison I can think of that i've read about or know about dead small town one so probably if you're in prison there or in jail somewhere they're probably in awe of this guy like what a weirdo maybe but there might be three four guys there whose uncle or cousin works here so that's the other thing yeah uncle dale yeah yeah that's true that's true and also if you have a small jail there's not a lot of people in it there's not really enough to get groups that'll go after someone either you won't be like you know because here it's usually prisoner on prisoner it'll be a gang you don't want to you know somebody to get stomped and whatever so uh they said that first is pandora edwards who's going to open up

the whole box here pand Pandora Edwards, baby. Pandora. That's a man. That's a man's name. That's a man's name. Pandora Edwards. In the 80s. His parents just thought he was clever. Yeah.

They were clever and they were like, Pandora, because he's a sea of mysteries. In a box. He's very deep, that boy. He's a deep boy. Pandora. Pandora Edwards uh that's the when i put that in here i was like is that real i'll have to like check back i'm like pandora edwards yeah i wrote that down i know why he's in jail he's in jail for killing whoever

named him pandora i killed my mother what's your name pandora all right i get it yeah so uh pan oh no pandora pandora is a woman oh okay i totally messed up and she's a prisoner with him pandora this is how small this is she was in a cell next to him we don't have a men's and women's we just have the jail co-ed jail okay i've never heard of co-ed jail well we can't afford to buy two james it's either this or that you can we either arrest them both or we only arrest one that's what i mean that's all we got we only got one bathroom too so it's an even bigger problem tell you what we had to put a lock on the door it's a whole thing now put a unisex on the goddamn law we just comes down on you pandora so pandora is in the cell next to his i just picture this

as like a sheriff's office with like a big cage in the middle with like a dividing cage you know what i mean there's just two pages like old school she was the apple of her mom's eye at one point and now she's in jail as Pandora. Pandora. Yeah. Now, she's in jail next to him. She said that Butch told her about, quote, some 14-year-old that he raped, beat up, cut, and buried. Wow. Jesus Christ.

And he said this occurred at night, and he was unable to sleep because he kept seeing the victim, he told her. That's good. He was like, oh, man, I can't sleep. Well, I'm in this this girl i'm not raped or cut her up and buried her i just making me it's weird yeah it's weird just i'm tired i can't feel guilty every time i close my eyes i see this girl i raped murdered and cut up right uh now edwards's cellmate uh-huh is a is a man. What is this place? Eddie May Tate Wilkerson. What is going on? It's got to be a woman, Eddie May. Eddie May, maybe?

Eddie, like Whoopi Goldberg in the movie? Yeah, right. Eddie, I don't know. In the basketball movie? Has to be. Has to be a woman, Eddie May. They don't put a man and a woman in the same cell together. Unless it's just that.

It's that we can't afford a men's and a women's. Yeah, I don't be fucking in there. Now you hear? You're all human, so we we're gonna treat you as such now no raping and they just walk away we're gonna trust you honor system on the sexual assault now hey criminal man uh we have another criminal who happens to be what y'all like don't fuck her don't fuck her no all right then walks away you guys that don't like following the rules here's a new rule nobody fucks nobody fucks her

now god damn it get in in there, Eddie May. Come on, Eddie May. So Eddie May, Tate Wilkerson. Jesus Christ. Sorry, I can't help it. I said no rape. I put us on the goddamn tangent. What are you talking about?

It was my fault. This is a mess. Honor system on the side. It's a sexual assault honor system. It's a trusting town, Jimmy. They're different in small towns. It's just funnier with a finger point to a criminal's face and going, Honor system on the sexual assault.

Honor system, pal. Seriously. Come on. You put a dollar in the box like you like you took a snickers from the office like what the fuck is going on any you fucker you gotta put a quarter in the gotta put a quarter in the rape we had a pizza party last month now we're hoping hoping that it's not gonna be that crazy maybe it's all pretty much

financed by john to arby's maybe or something but jesus christ guys a whole pizza party that's just too much i said no stop it god damn it john your commissary is awfully low you better not try to fuck her you can't afford it said he made tate wilkerson says that uh butch told her that he killed and buried the girl because she was his girlfriend and she was seeing another man oh now that's not true it was he was she was james dagman's girlfriend so i don't know if she he's saying that that was on the side and he was jealous of james or i don't know what it is or if that was just the deal uh but yeah she was seeing another man another inmate charlie all good i don't know charlie and it could be anything who

knows we have somebody just named fucking jim who i'm pretty sure is a guy can we have the male j i just i'm not even whatever don't don't hit me with the whichever gender i don't give a shit i'm just i need to know if they're sharing if they're doing intergender jail cells i need to know what's happening that's unbelievable that's true fucking wild so charlie all good no he this is a fucking he testified here eddie may is a goddamn this is eddie may is a man. What? Pandora's got to be a guy. No. So he was... It says she. Okay. Court documents.

Pandora Edwards testified that while she was in a cell next to him. Okay. Next. Yep. Next. Edward's cellmate, Eddie May Tate Wilkerson, testified the defendant said he had buried and killed the girl because she was his girlfriend. She was seeing another man.

So there's no indicator there. Inmate Charlie Allgood testified that he overheard. Okay, so Eddie May is probably a woman. Charlie is probably in the male side with him. Okay, I was trying to figure out where people are. But they're all locked up together. Yeah, but I mean, like, who's in whose cell is what I was getting at. Who's hearing something? So if Charlie is a woman, she's probably not in his cell is what I'm thinking,

where if Charlie's a man, Charlie might be in Butch's cell. Right. So Charlie said that he overheard Butch tell another inmate that he committed the crime, but that they didn't have any witnesses, and he was going to walk. Okay. He's going to be scot-free. He thinks that's how it works. Yeah, they found the body.

It was no body, no crime. Now they got the body, but no witness, no crime. crime nobody saw i can't get in trouble it's all good even though my sperm's there yeah oh yeah that's not a good thing that's a bad thing for him now james graham is another guy here testified that butch told him that a girl was missing and that he would be charged with the murder if she had been killed. Like, she's missing, and if they come up, she come up dead, they're going to blame me. I know it. She better come up alive.

That's the way he was doing. Now, Butch said also that the cops had not found anything yet and that they probably would never find her. Okay. Because I'm good. Yeah. He also admitted the killing to Stephen Morgan. How many people did he tell he killed somebody too this is like this isn't just a cellmate who he like talked to and maybe it's

the middle of the night and they're having a vulnerable conversation this is like everybody he taught guy in the next cell some lady this one that one evidently they start conversations with what are you in for yeah yeah everybody in line for food but he's honest about it while watching televised news reports of the search for tara with uh with butch apparently uh the stephen morgan and another inmate george caldwell heard butch say quote you're a long ways away from finding that body and then laughing and then making other similar comments like they think they're gonna find her over there they're out of their minds well that's good wasting their time over there hopefully they'll waste their time over there now next time like casual wow dude casual admittance of of child murder right like

it's nothing to anyone who will listen they probably he talks so much they probably thought he was full of shit probably that's all i can think he talks so much they probably thought he was full of shit probably that's all i can think he talks so much that it's beyond the point of even just he's an idiot they probably think this guy didn't fucking kill anybody he's probably in here for you know probably had a bag of coke in his pocket or something this guy's an asshole i bet you that's what people thought got to you wouldn't think that he's is that serious So he then told, by the way, at that point, while they were watching TV, say, you're a long ways away from the body. He turned to George Caldwell and said, body's about 300 feet from the road, and they ain't ever going to find it. By the way, the body they found was 248 feet from Egypt Hollow Road.

248 feet. He was pretty close. And with the animal dragging who knows he could have been right on the money i don't know if he got a tape out there or what so uh the most damaging though was also ernest morrison another guy who was another capital murder defendant from georgia he temporarily shelled shared a cell with butch and also Earl David Crawford. So they got a three-man murderer cell. Right. That's a deadly one.

Put all the murderers in together. Save some money on trial. Keep them away from Eddie May. Yeah, keep them away. Please, everybody, keep them away from Pandora. Don't let them near Pandora's box, please. Everybody keep him away from Pandora. Don't let him near Pandora's box, please.

So they shared a cell with him. Morrison said that he and Butch talked about the murders for which each of them were charged. You know, a murderer can talk to another murderer. So he told Butch told Morrison that he had met, quote, the girl close to a church and had asked her to go somewhere with him. He said that he was told that the two had ridden with a third person so far down the road, just way down there, which is exactly what happened. When I guess Butch asked to be let out, he told the driver to go on. And after Butch and Tara walked up the hill, Butch made her, made her give him a blow job. He said,

so that's what he did. Then he said he forced her to, then they walked through the woods. He dragged her into the woods, made her walk into the woods. And he, he forcefully removed her pants and had sex with her and raped her. And at that time, he said that she was pleading with him not to hurt her.

So obviously, after that, he's got to hurt her. He's clearly made threats while this is happening. That's what I mean. He's telling her to shut up, probably, and all this awful shit. He said he grabbed her by the hair at that point and told her, well, you know it's your time. I can't stand no more of having this here. That's what he grabbed her by the hair at that point and told her well you know it's your time i can't you know stand no more having this here that's what he told her and uh then he walked her down to the creek where he then forced her to kneel down and again do that and then pushed her

to the ground and forced her head into the creek and drowned her wow that's what he said and then strangled her for good measure just to make sure you know gave her some choking but he said he dragged her by the hair down and drowned her in a creek holy hell this is fucking disgusting that's the most horrible description of a murder that i've ever heard it's horrible yeah it's it's disturbing he was telling this to another person bragging three times essentially yeah i mean and then killed her because i was like i can't take this this is getting boring i can't no more stand this thought um yeah here he said he then took her ring and then dragged her up the hill laid her body in the brush and covered her up and he said they said he said did you bury her and he

said i didn't care she was buried i just put some shit on top of her and went away. Disgusting. You are a piece of shit. God, I want that somebody to punch him out of his chair so bad. Jesus Christ. How big is he? I don't think very. I don't know.

I'd like to fly to Georgia. I was going to say. I think I'd like to give it a shot either way. He's older now. What is he? 20 and so 20 in the 80s. So he's about almost 60 now. He's in his mid 50s. I think it's a fair fight. I'll take a shot either way he's he's older now what is he 20 so 20 in the 80s so he's he's about almost 60 now he's in his mid-50s i think it's a fair fight i'll take a shot at him let's go yeah i'll take a good shot at him i think so it's a fair fight we's legal let's go let's give

it a run it'll be like at the gas station i want to meet him i want to beat the living shit out of that man like i said i almost beat the shit out of a person for much less than that the other day. Might as well, man. Might as well. Yeah. A maskless old man. He wasn't old. He was like 60. He thought he was spry.

Same age. He thought he was spry. Let's give it a run. Tried to talk some shit. And I told him that he was going to be collecting his dentures off the fucking ground if he didn't take a step back. And that shocked him. I don't think he expected that line to come out. And I told him an old fart and told him to get back to his fucking car and put a mask

on you old fart grow the fuck up yeah asshole the immature adult me a kid yeah listen kid i said kid that's when i said i'll not fucking you're gonna collect your dentures in a second so anyway yeah they uh that so put a mask on i'm like you know how many fucking i wanted to yell you know how many fucking live shows i canceled this year do you know how many fucking live shows we've postponed it four fucking times i'll kill you you motherfucker but i didn't say that i took it easy i've got so many gripes about it man i know it's i know i just want to go on the road i just want to perform i just want to fucking i want to do shows i want to go out and do shows i want to have make a fucking living

doing shows like a goddamn comedian it's goddamn real it's real i don't want people to die i don't want stuff to go on yeah i meant selfishly i just want to do that your fucking mask on yeah it's easy it's really easy i don't care what you believe yeah they suck yeah it's hot in there yeah it's annoying yes oh that is true and it doesn't matter glasses and even in the summertime my fucking glasses fog up 115 degrees outside i can't see out of my fucking glasses so just take them off and drive jimmy who cares you'll be fine i still wear but you shouldn't it'll be more comfortable to just take your glasses off and drive sure it's unsafe yeah what the hell sure you're putting other people in danger but i mean you know what that's your right so now the defense at trial that they present uh is the testimony of uh his

grandmother and of shirley and daryl williams who also lived in the grandmother's trailer so they have four goddamn people crammed into a trailer of which, you know, who knows what varying degrees of relation they are. Sure. So they said that on the night of November 29th, Tara Stowe had come to the trailer and left when she learned that Butch wasn't there.

Apparently she said Tara stopped by. Apparently they went to, remember they went to look for Butch and Butch went to look for her. They crossed paths. So you think they would have hammered that out on the phone. Well, I'll come there. No, I'll come there.

All right. And they just hung up and both did it. I don't know what happened. I'll come there. Yeah, I said I'll come there. All right. I'll see you then. I'll see you there.

All right. I'm on my way. I'm on my way. Me too. See you. I'm getting in the car. Yeah. All right.

I'll be at the holler. All right. Say it. I'm getting in the car. Yeah. All right. I'll be at the holler. All right. Me too. So Butch then himself had come home later sometime between 11 and 1130 is by their testimony. And he had remained there the rest of the night. They said he came home 11, 1130. That was that. Darrell Williams testified that he had seen James D dag on that is uh hiding in the tent guy

because he's got a warrant out right um quote in the hollow uh there on november 29th he also seen dag none he's seen he's seen him he's seen dag none riding in his father's car quote sort of like he was trying to avoid being seen i don't know how you drive a car like you're trying to avoid being seen. Was his head not visible? Pretending to ghost ride the whip. Yeah, I looked over and just saw his hand on the wheel, but his head was ducked below the dashboard, so I'm not sure.

He was trying to look inconspicuous. Was he driving like not on the road? What was he doing that could make it look like he's trying to avoid being seen? I don't know how that's possible. I've never been driving like, I don't want him to see me. You're in a car. He was driving a car that had camouflage paint, so he was trying not to be seen.

I assume he was trying to blend into the surroundings. He was wearing a real tree camo hat. He blended right in. I couldn't see him at all. He is like a Viet Cong, boy. I couldn't see nothing. Just trying not to be seen he said during the time of the search and later after the body had been found uh that he was cleaning trash and the

clothes out of his car at his grandmother's house so that's somebody putting it on james dagman there i saw him cleaning up after a murder so the uh state's examination of pandora edwards uh first question is why were you in a jail next to yeah why are you in a cell next to him she's like i don't know you should ask the sheriff you're right i'll ask the sheriff but i'm very curious so he said uh during the attorney general unsuccessfully tried to elicit testimony that butch had said that basically they get pandora edwards on the stand and the attorney general yells at this person that didn't he call her a whore didn't he tell you she deserved it and he was

pandora edwards like i didn't hear that no and they're like she called her he called her a whore right and she's like i don't know and like there was like 10 objections and he kept saying like she said she fucking he said she deserved it he's like she's like i really don't know he never said that to me i mean there's 20 other people he admitted to murder right maybe get them up here maybe he said it i don't know but he's the pandora edwards says that i didn't hear that so edwards persisted in saying that butch had said nothing good or bad about her she didn't say she was cool he didn't say she was a piece of shit he just said matter of factly this is what it did to her wow that's it did all this shit and uh oh well don't care so um he objects to this line of questioning obviously well not him he doesn't have a law

degree yeah he he doesn't have a high school he objects to this whole fucking charade of a trial he's so dumb if you see a class ring on him you think it's suspicious that's how dumb he is you talk to him for five minutes and you go where the fuck did you get that ring why do you have a high school i don't know anything about your past but i'm pretty sure you didn't graduate from anything you said you've seen something today yeah so i seen it you didn't what did you graduate from mister huh what ring is that from right i don't think so i don't think they give degrees for is that just a mood ring is that what that is that's a pretend he just bought it at a flea market for like 30 cents yeah with some lady's dead husbands or some shit and she's

unloading it because she hated him i haven't seen that on my husband in 30 years you wear you're such a handsome young man he died 30 years ago you're such a handsome young man yeah i like that so yeah this is a a disaster this this whole thing um so there are yelling at her um yelling at pandora yes she's a he did call her a whore no he didn he didn't. And blah, blah, blah. Objects to all this. They have an, they'd send the jury out of the room to have a meeting about the whole thing and whether his, his counsel's being abusive and you know,

whether it's a fair line of questioning, the trial court sustained the objection and gave the instructions to the effect of the prosecutor's questions had been improper and strike from the jury. Okay. So jury's not allowed to consider whether he called her a whore or said she deserved it or any other negative thing so another prisoner comes steps forward here they have multiple prisoners testify they have james lewis uh

cellmate of inmates stephen morgan and james graham uh he testifies that he heard morgan and graham planning to make up testimony against butch in order to get probation so they were saying you know they're trying to make something up a story to testify earl david crawford who is uh morrison's cellmate he testified that morrison and butch did not get along and that he never heard any conversation between them in which butch told morrison about the murder because they didn't talk about anything he said it wasn't that he was avoiding that they just didn't like each other didn't talk so that's good at least if you don't like your cellmate you don't tell them about all your crimes probably so wow that's crazy so they bring up a couple of the defenses like see this is this is how bad it is for him the defense is

only defense is to bring up prisoners that he didn't tell about the murder and just go see he didn't tell him about the murder like imagine that's your defense on something that good oh i didn't tell you know 300 million other people in the country about the murder let's bring them all up and they can all tell me so one person says i told them about the murder and 300 million say i didn't well then i mean who's right right that's the strategy just bring up the entire prison he told less people than not right so let's just bring all the people he didn't tell and that'll be our defense that those other ones are lying so So, yeah. Now, Butch ends up having to testify.

He's got to testify. He's got no choice. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of people saying he's a piece of shit. And, you know, prison inmates saying that he said he killed this girl. So he's got to get up and use his own words here. So Butch testifies. His story is now, of course, he's got a new story because he's on the stance. And this is a story he's got over with a lawyer.

Right. Like this might hold legal water type of story. This is the best one for the cross-examination. Yes. This is as good as it's going to get. This is the one with the least amount of questions. Here we go. He has had to, well, tries to tie up loose ends because he's had time to sit in jail and wait for this.

And then he's had time with a lawyer to come up with what's he going to say. Because I assume he's not just like, you know, I'm going to testify today. I got this. I assume the lawyer's like, okay, do this. Don't say that. Say this. If they ask you this, say that. So he testifies that he had been with James Dagnon at Parales,

which is a local hangout in Egypt Hollow on the 29th, Paralyse, which is a local hangout in Egypt Hollow on the 29th, contradicting the hiding in the woods from the warrant for whipping a boy. I don't know what's going on. But yeah, so that's the first time we've heard of James Dagnon anywhere but a tent in the woods. Absolutely not. So he says, though, he was at a local. I don't even know what that is, a hangout.

I don't know if it's it sounds like it's like a gas station where they have an arcade game in the back of, and the kids hang out and drink Boone's Farm. Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's a place of business, right? Yeah, I just don't know what kind. He said both he and James had talked to Tara on the telephone by that time, is what Butch says. And he says that later, Butch and Tim Sexton went to the Betty Davis residence to ask for Tara, which that actually did happen because there's witnesses to that. They later went to Egypt Hollow, where they saw Tara sitting on the steps of a church. He said the three of them drove up into the hollow together, drove up in the hollow and stopped and got out of the car.

together drove up in the hollow and stopped and got out of the car butch said after that tim left because he he said he tim didn't he said tim didn't ask me to come he said i just him just said he had to go and he left i didn't tell tim he couldn't come into the hollow with us so then he said pretty much right after tim left james popped up oh he emerged from his tent up in the woods and came down now uh it's at that point that james and tara began to argue not over beer as previously said but because james's mother wanted him to get his ring back from tara because she paid the 70 or whatever the fuck it costs for a class ring he paid 72 50 and she won't it back now and he gave it to her so mom's mad so they argued about it and tara um james ended up having to grab her wrist and wrestle the ring off of tara's hand

and pull it off like you know she was screaming and yelling and he just held her arm and said god damn it you fucking bitch and took her ring off okay and then at that point uh gave it to butch yeah and said hang on to this for a couple days because, you know, who knows with this one? She's going to steal it. Who knows? That's a story. After that wild event. Yeah.

You take the ring. And he was like, whoa, weird. And he said the last time that he saw Tara and James Dagnon, they were arguing as they, quote, left out back towards the hollow, left out back toward the holler so after that i just turned around walked away in the in the direction of the interstate and he says after that i went home literally what he said don't know i i was there just long enough to see him pop up have a argument that turned physical yeah and then just walk back into the woods near where she was found and i just went wow weird night with you know jewelry from a murder victim on and i leave that's uh that's his story they had a weird argument that's never been had in the history of life and then i just

walked away and then i walked away and they went in and obviously he raped and killed her so clean and done i guess right so i'll be going home now yeah guys want to undo these shackles this is really uncomfortable i'm gonna get going now you know holler at him thanks guys just i mean now that i've explained it it's cool right right totally cool you get it so in the rebuttal here the state presented the testimony of john dagnon and tim sexton and that uh daryl williams had told them everybody's telling everybody a lot of there's a lot of hearsay going on here. Talking in the state said that John Dagnon and Tim Sexton said that Daryl Williams had told them that Butch had not come home until six o'clock in the morning on November 29th. Not at 11 as he got his grandmother to testify.

So your grandmother will say anything for you. Yeah. My grandmother would say anything for me to get. Yeah yeah she wouldn't even care if i did it or not so what time did he get home what time what time you tell you yeah that's the time that seems right yeah she's an old guinea too you're not getting a fucking word out of her not a word she's a she's an old. She'll ask questions to answer questions. She'll straight. No.

What time do you get home? She'll lie. What time he tell you? I don't know. Oh, what he say? My Jimmy doesn't lie. That's what she would say about me. My Jimmy doesn't lie.

Whatever he say, that's what he do. He won't lie. He's a nice boy. Terrific. He's a good boy. Asking questions and then saying that shit that shit yeah that's what it is that's what she would do now what she would do now what i want to ask you is why do you ask me this for why do you ask me why yeah you leave my grandson alone that's what she'd say well you want me. You ask me questions if you want.

She tried to put herself in it. You could ask me questions. I'll tell you to go to hell. You might go fuck yourself. I'm like the priest I tell to go fuck himself in 1972. So Jan Gifford, a friend of James Dagnon's mother, testified. These Dagnons, man. There's a lot of them. Dagnon's mother, testified. These Dagnons, man.

There's a lot of them. Dagnon, sons of bitches. James Dagnon's mother's friend testified that James Dagnon had been at her house in Trenton, Georgia from 7 p.m. November 29th until 2 p.m. the next day. He wasn't even in the fucking woods in a tent. Butch just lured her there under the pretense that oh yeah no i talked to james he's in a tent up in the woods so i'll take you to him and then just took her out there and raped her and killed her in the woods he was never even there he just literally used that as a lie to set this poor girl up he's in the woods because dad's got a warrant out for him yeah he's got a

warrant out on him on which might be true but he wasn't hiding in the woods over it this is like that's sociopath this is that's wild man that is some serial killer shit right there this guy's if he got away with this oh there'd be so many more he would have killed so many girls who knows there might be oh if he did that this can't be the first time he thought of dude to do this i'm not thinking and thought to bury her and everything else he doesn't seem like a real organized cat so anyway uh yeah she said that now uh gifford's testimony is that that as well as southern several other witnesses clarified james dagnon did not testify at trial because at the time of the trial, he was hospitalized in a burn ward in Augusta, Georgia. What happened? He was horribly burned somehow.

I could not find how he got burned, if his dad finally had enough of him or if the one he whooped got his revenge. Or if he had a friend with an aluminum ladder. Yeah. Who knows? There might be a whole festival about this shit someday. got his revenge or if he had a friend with an aluminum ladder yeah it's right who knows there might be a whole festival about this shit someday maybe this is what it's about maybe they added james dagnon to the so who knows what in this town you know who the fuck knows if he got burned

who knows someone could just let him on fire right while he's in the tent for all we know i don't know this is crazy so detective schroeder also testified that he had never asked or directed any inmates because that's one of the things that the one of the things that James or that Butch's lawyer will say. And even on appeal is that these inmates were acting as agents of the state that not only were they acting as agents of the state but that the detectives put the inmates up to getting information okay basically said hey you go in there get me some information and i'll help you out that's what they're that's what they're claiming so they hired these guys they're saying they're claiming that all these guys were in there on purpose being told to go get information and they're that makes them agents of the state which makes them not legally allowed to do this because at that point they'd have to be mirandized because blah blah

blah right you know how all that works so um they said he said i that's bullshit the detective said i never did that he said that the other prisoners at the jail would simply tell him about butch's statements because people will come up to me and go hey that guy said he raped and killed a 14 year old i don't know if that's important or not but he said he dumped her by the road he had a whole lot of shit he was talking about it was a lot he's talking about a ring i mean we might want to talk to him probably i don't know what you guys got him held for but uh if it's not rape and murder you may be able to get that on him you might want to check on a rape and murder that happened because um i feel like he did some raping and some murdering and why do i feel because

he said it he told me a lot it was real detailed too uh he said that he said that the only other witness at the suppression hearing before about this information was the defendant's grandmother who testified that uh the night he was picked up at the trailer, about that night, that was it. And the assistant DA who testified about the circumstances of a statement that wasn't used at trial. So who cares? So anyway, the verdict comes in. The jury went away. Two hours of deliberation, which is basically enough time to fill out the forms and come back. It's a fast one.

Very quick. Just you. All right, all right, all right. Two hours of deliberation. He is guilty of first-degree murder. Sure. He's going here. Sentencing comes up.

And death penalty on the table here. Absolutely. Electric chair. Yeah. Cranking up. You can hear it buzzing from here. Suck his asshole out with a shop vac. I don't care.

Fuck this guy. I don't care what the fuck he did to this guy. Like I said, I want him to be turned into a fucking puddle in the interrogation room before this even happened. Seriously. I don't even give a shit here. Sentencing, the jury returns its aggravating circumstance as the following. The murder was especially heinous and atrocious in that it involved depravity of mind while the defendant was engaged in committing rape so totally horrible and raping at the same time so we're going to

take that as a bad fucking one a really terrible way to dispatch someone and raped and raped and a child which makes right way worse that's this is a child we're talking about here so you know they they make like a 14. A lot of these cases I hate when they do that. It's like a 14, 15-year-old girl, and they make it out like, you know, like, oh. Like the victim's an adult? Yeah, like, well, yeah. Like, they don't.

I get that they're just saying she's 14 and they raped her. But, like, there's more. They raped a child. That's not really just a regular thing. That's not the case. This is extended. It's way extra. Yeah. And they don't act like that. That's a really just a regular thing. It's way extra. And they don't act like that. That's a child, man.

So now they find the mitigating circumstances of he's a dipshit, and that's about it. So they come in. You, sir, may fuck off. Death in the electric chair. Yes. So fuck Butch. I actually root for this. Yeah, very rarely. Really hard. Really rarely do we say, yay, death in the electric chair. Yes. So fuck. I actually root for this. Yeah. Very rarely.

Really hard. Really rarely do we say, yay, death in the electric chair. But this guy. Yeah. I swear to Christ. Give me some lighter fluid. Yeah. And a bick.

And we don't even need the electric. I'll just fucking put him up like a war protesters used to do to themselves. Yeah. Buddhist monks. Yeah. I'll make him a Buddhist monk. I'm a late. I don't give a shit. I'm not dealing with this guy fuck this guy so uh he uh was sentenced 20 years

old sentenced to die here uh for rape and murder he is um yeah he appeals sure in 1990 he says that the first issue of the trial court was it erred in overruling his motion to suppress the statements. This is the big thing. All the statements made to Detective Schroeder from fellow inmates while he was in custody at the trial here, waiting for trial, should all be out. Let's be honest here. So I tell people I killed a person? You can't let them tell you that. That's ridiculous.

They weren't there. I didn't tell you. I'm the guy you listen to. Me's my murder right what the fuck so he says that uh he argues the statement should be suppressed because they were the legal the the result of illegal arrest and were made in violation of his rights under the fourth fifth and sixth amendments okay the fourth the sixth amendments and the intergalactic code of fucking whatever and the you know he violated the uh kung fu panda treaty of 2008 as well what the hell is going on world wildlife small squirrel uh this is yeah this is ridiculous the substance of the argument

is that the statement should be not admitted because he was held for almost three weeks under the pretense of two other outstanding warrants. So he's saying he was being held illegally, therefore he should have never been in jail to be able to make those statements. So, boop, boop, boop, back it up a couple and the statements are out. Because he said that they held

him on these two warrants but the only reason they were pressed on these warrants and held him on these warrants was because they wanted to hold him because of the murder. He's saying if it wasn't for the murder I would have never been in jail. They wouldn't have picked me up. So you know even though I killed her it's

really a strange argument isn't it? It goes backwards and then hits a wall and then sidesteps to go around the wall but without looking at it. It's a very strange argument what does he do does he does he work it's a dumb argument does he get it so i will talk about it here god damn it whether they said the proof is clear that he voluntarily waived his fifth amendment rights so they said that's bullshit there don't worry about that one

uh since he was only under investigation and no adversarial proceedings had begun the sixth amendment right to counsel was also not violated and since the case was only under investigate i'm sorry and also the written statement given on the morning of december 5th uh why he was in custody was once more given his moranda rights and waived them adversary proceedings had still not been initiated so um yeah they're saying he's full of shit here. Uh, he complains he was interrogated by his fellow prisoners at the insistence of

police officers. There's no proof at the hearing that the inmates are acting as agents of the state or that the state deliberately induced enticed or prompted these communications as to require their suppression. So they said it sucks for him, but shit, it's legal. We's legal. Yeah yeah it's a fair

seriologist or serologist here serologist he said uh they said the defendant here butch says that the trial court aired and failing to exclude the testimony of the state serologist this all these people with evidence we can't have that. Too much evidence. The prosecutor said stuff, and then I testify, and then you go to the jury, it should be. This is ridiculous. It's none of his business, really, this guy. What does he care? He said that he contends her testimony that spermatozoa, why can't I say that word today? It's gross.

Two hours of sleep. spermatazoa why can't i say that word today it's gross two hours of sleep consistent with humans uh were were found on a sample from the victim's underwear uh that was irrelevant to the charge of first degree murder absent the absent the an indictment for first degree murder in the perpetration of rape so he says you didn't put it up as first degree murder in the perpetration of rape so therefore you shouldn't have had that person testify that I raped her because that just makes me sound bad. Right. And, you know, who wants to sound like you rape kids? You know what I mean?

It looks bad. You make it sound so much worse. It just sounds bad. He said that that was not a material proposition during the guilt phase of his trial. And he said even if relevant he says the prejudicial effect of the testimony outweighs its probative value by far so they uh the court says uh quote we find no merit in either argument first an indictment that charges the killer uh in the common law form and does not specifically mention the killing was committed

in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate one of the felonies named in the first degree statute murder statute the charge may be proven with evidence that the killing was committed in perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate one of these felonies so know the fucking law before you appeal shit second despite the inability of the pathologist to say the rape had occurred because of the condition of the body and the inability of the serologist to determine how old the samples were there. The probative value of this evidence, which supported his admissions that he had raped the victim, was not outweighed by its prejudicial effect, saying it was also corroborated by all the people he told did it.

So it's like those two things together. He also said that they erred in overruling his request for a dna test he sought an examination uh of everything of the uh samples found in the victim's clothing for a dna comparison and uh he said his request was first made at the hearing on the motion for a new trial at which time his request was denied and he had not attempted to explain why uh he has not attempted to explain why he has not attempted to explain why this request was not made before trial or to present any evidence suggesting a DNA test would pursue produce admissible evidence.

So they said you haven't you could have asked for one before. Yeah. And also at the same time you you know I don't know what you want from us basically like also you don't want that tested no no never never you're just in a 14 year old's underwear is bad enough yeah when it's your jizz in a 14 year old's underwear that's a whole makes it way worse another way whole other thing going on there he never wants that tested no uh also he says the trial court erred in admitting evidence relative to the condition of the body as found particularly as to anything that occurred to the body subsequent to death he says that the evidence the body had

decomposed and had been disturbed by animals was irrelevant and if relevant that its probative value as outweighed by its prejudicial value. So that's just what happened. You can't, how dare you give evidence? He just hates when there's evidence. I don't like it when they have all this evidence, this court trial thing. I feel like I'm on trial. It's just bad.

He says, uh, yeah, he also objects to, as a relevant to detective Schroeder's testimony at the guilt hearing that he had told him that one of the ways to get rid of a body was to feed it to pigs and he wanted pictures for a scrapbook i think that's pretty relevant he also objects to the statements about putting a body in a graveyard in various places where the where they could

search for a body on a mountain all of these statements are relevant to show malice and those concerning the location of the body uh invents a desire to mislead the authorities and to evade a prosecution from which guilt may be inferred yeah duh his defense attorney saw all of this evidence and was like what the fuck this is bad the most questionable statement that's about the that is about the photographs for the scrapbook but any error here is clearly harmless in the light of the proof so they're like it's overwhelming and just because he said that that might be a little prejudicial and doesn't mean as much yeah but still fucking bad um yeah they said they also the aggravating circumstances he said they didn't find enough enough uh uh

mitigating circumstances he argues that the aggravators were not supported by the proof that the jury's finding of rape was not supported by the evidence but then again he wanted to have the other thing out so but it is if he got that knocked out that would be true but he didn't so uh his confession to rape to two of fellow prisoners corroborated by the presence of all these fucking sperm samples on the victim's clothing and the location of her pants and underpants away from the body and the positioning of her jacket and brassiere over her neck and head is sufficient to support the finding that murder occurred during the commission of rape. Go fuck yourself. Eat dicks.

The ruling stands. He is on death row for the strangulation slash drowning and raping of a 14-year-old fucking girl there. He appeals multiple times to two dissenting votes actually on this on on the appeal the justices it was a three to two on this one uh they let stand the ruling that he received a fair trial in a proper sentence this is uh justice thurgood marshall and brian r white voted to hear arguments raised by Teal's appeal, but four votes are needed to grant such a review. Teal was convicted of the crime there, and there he sits. So the appeal here, he goes to finally 1995.

There's an appeal, and it's at the Marion County Criminal Court, February 8th, 1995. He is looking for relief for right to to counsel violation there's a bad counts they didn't give him counsel soon enough uh failure of counsel to present mitigating evidence that would have gotten him out of the death penalty as he said there was other mitigating factors that his attorney didn't like pursue didn't put the witnesses on that he should have and all of this. So through all of that, they decide in 1995 that he, life in prison, they get him. They commute it. They commute the death penalty on him. And they found out through a study that basically over the past 40 years,

this is from this study, this is a university study. Over the past 40 years, Tennessee has convicted has convicted more than 2500 defendants of first degree murder among those 2500 defendants only 86 received the death sentence and only six defendants were actually executed wow so out of 2500 people six were executed now do you know how much fucking money was spent for those 86 that were convicted and only six are executed those 80 think about how many appeals and this and the state and the bullshit and the this and the back and forth that you have to have when you're going to murder somebody so it's just not worth it man i get that it feels good but it's if you want like that guy i want to kill this well guess what you know what if you could kill him you

got to kill other people too yes that, because that's what always happens. It happens a lot because it's really hard to find a perfect trial. And if you're going to kill someone, it better be a perfect trial. Yeah. That's the problem. While the death sentence has been imposed on a total of 192 people, only 86 ended up with sustained death sentences. In other words, cases that resulted in death sentences at trial have experienced a 55 reversal rate whoa that's a lot man that's a lot um also uh more than 23 percent of capital defendants have been vacated on grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel that's not

good well that's the thing if you're giving people public defenders every time pretty much there's something they did that's ineffective because they're not they don't have the time uh further indicating serious problems with the admission of the system specifically in light of the uh They don't have the time. multiple victims many involving extraordinarily egregious crimes but only 33 of those defendants 10 percent received death sentences while the remaining 306 received life or life without parole of the 17 defendants found guilty of mass murder four or more victims only two mass murder defendants 12 percent received sustained death sentences and those are the people that you want that for and it doesn't work the other 15 mass murder defendants 88 were sentenced to life or life without parole so this is normal it happens all the time yeah it's whatever um yeah a guy like that you just hope that um somebody fucking

caves his skull in against a toilet bowl in a prison cell it's all you can hope for because he's a piece of shit nor he's trafficked for the rest of his life that's fine that's fine but i do i just ass and exchange for cigarettes i do want his head to get bounced off a metal toilet every once in a while just for this just to go you raped a 14 year old you motherfucker and just you son of a bitch this is why i'm doing this so just asshole i hate that i don't like that either i don't want people to be put in prison to be abused but fuck this guy this is the person who deserves it um yeah just once just once once this guy we'll make an exception yeah let's hold him and fucking move him what do you say it has to be uh violent in prison i mean oh yeah you hope it's violent people james and jimmy's

holding to move them there we go everybody hope you enjoyed that is white side tennessee and an absolute wow monster of an asshole uh complete raging swollen fucking farting and diarrhea spewing asshole this is a horrible man i fucking hate him so if you enjoyed that tell us about it five stars give us five stars on apple podcast that purple icon it really does help a lot. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com for everything small-town murder and crime and sports, which you should be listening to. God damn it. I don't know what the hell you're thinking if you're not.

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absolutely that's the important part you're not trying to fuck the names up. He's concentrating with all of his might and it's just not happening. So all of that and the bonuses, patrion.com slash crime and sports, or if you just want to be a great person and a producer of the show and somebody that we would just absolutely love. And honestly, just a classy move. You can also donate over at PayPal and be an extremely nice person with good

karma. And also you'll be a producer if you do that as well and still get your name messed up. That is, just use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. There you go. Which is also a good way to get a hold of the show as well. That said, God damn it, Jimmy. Oh, boy. Nothing else left to do but hit me with the names of the best people in the world

who I never, ever want to be knocked off their chairs with a punch to the ear hit me with those names right now jimmy this week's executive producers are rebecca valadez suzanna platt uh sabrina jones natasha patel jessica west brian harbour eric lugo billy mike rambo the third samantha and sean carlson i know thanks sam and sean yeah joanne ahern craig cole shannon russell justin sangre and tinus yo uh jordan bennett fran in australia and tim is in afghanistan they watched the live show together oh cool well thank you thank you so much so cool thanks everybody stay safe tim jesus christ be careful out there. Honestly. Also, Josh Denton and other producers this week are Dan Papendick. It's his birthday. Happy birthday.

Happy birthday, Papendick. His girlfriend got him into the show, so she feels safer around him. How good. Thomas DeMello, Marcos Gennaro, Karis Lynn Magarelli, Rabbi Shmolovich. Why do you like that? Happy birthday, Rob. I think his last name's Aguilar, or that's just his girlfriend's name. I'm not sure.

Shane Quarles, Quarles, Quarles. Sarah DeLeon had a birthday and an anniversary. I don't know which or which. Congratulations. Georgia Metal Alliance and Heavy Metal Club in Illinois, their chapter. In Georgia? I don't know what that is. know which or which uh congratulations uh georgia the georgia metal alliance and heavy metal uh club in illinois their chapter in georgia what that is okay cool yeah the georgia one the georgia chapter in illinois i don't know awesome well hey get into those medals thank you other producers are jason lewis kayla kruski nicola and vavra what nicola nicola s vavra? What? Nicola? Nicola S. Vavra. That's what that says. Caitlin Stevenson.

Marsha Big. Sergeant Brannon, I think. Joey Cardinal. Cardinal. Cardinal. Bill Pagano. Pagano? No.

Like Chuck? Yeah, but it's P-A-G. Oh, he is P-A-G, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Pagano. Pagano. Caitlin Katzer.

Horse. What is this? Josef? And Bian Yeah. Pagano. Pagano. Caitlin Katzer. What is this? Josef and Bianca Bryant. Arjun. Big Saint to you. What? Big Saint to you? I don't know. Evan Coakley. Sidney Willis. Chris McGregor.

I'm a Sarah Dactyl. What? I like that. Aaron with no last name. Victoria with no last name. Sarah Croft. What? I like that. Aaron would know last name. Victoria would know last name. Sarah Croft. Tila. Talia.

Huron. Huron. What? Huron. Huronenko. What? Yeah. Heather Stenson.

See. See. Katalia. Jessica Kaler. Caller. Sydney Alheim. Melissa Moore. Fizz.

Z. Elf. What? Fizzy Elf. Yes. Amanda Drop. al alheim melissa moore fizz z elf what is the elf yes amanda drop samantha labak steve williams russell rose josie josie penning uh megan gerald jorrell nathan holbert billy melina mark what rashal recall what joel maskey britney you guys told me to type this i did and now i still can't What? Rashal? Recall? What? Joel Maskey? Brittany? You guys told me to type this. I did. And now I still can't do it.

Brittany Dorschner? Amanda Hanson? Charlie Cassidy? The Carrie Lee? Trish Phoenix? Haley Hardman? Hardman. Liz Rager?

Andrea Franz? Ryan with no last name. Julie Montag? Dave Ritterhoff? Tyler Stone, Scott Murphy, Rhea Klassen, Suzanne Charles, Nina Klaser, Gabrielle O'Connor, Chelsea Emerald, Jordan Anderson, Brad Samson, Christina Matthews, Dylan Amos, Danielle Adkins, Thomas Gieselin, christian christ christina matthews there you go dylan amos uh danielle adkins thomas geese uh geaslin chad ferguson christopher hammer nickel uh nicholas bronson renee go tom blank danger beagle crystal norden brent wow waning waninger andrew mclean er Eric Lugo I said that, KFC $5 fill up for what? KFC $5 fill up Caitlin Rusk, Amber Harris

Christy Pack, Emily Tinty, Cynthia the what, butt cat oh Jesus, yeah she's one of our executives also, I'm sorry Lisa Church, Anthony Stack, Brian Gutwin

Josie Escalito sorry well thank you anthony stack uh brian guttwin guttwin uh josey escal escalito harry would know last name mindy esterwood uh michelle allen ah jesus christ this is tough dan kelly aaron he's got him by the way these aren't this has nothing to do with scribbling them down he's reading these off a computer today for the first time and this is this is printed names so just so you know aaron beard uh dylan warren for transparency rob vogel amy jensen taylor with no last name kara stevens stevenson michael uh coleman kelly sheehan sheehan mike nope that's matt matt with with Nick. What? I don't know. W. Nick. It's a whole name. Got it.

There you go. Tiana Crane. Sandy Ashberry. Tyler Sharp. Sarah Wingo. Phillip Sorberg. Naomi Leatherwood. Jennifer Marici.

Mauricio. Hey, Mauricio. Andrew Wade. Chelsea Halliday. Jennifer Devian. D. Young. Ashley Menser. John Coop. amoressio andrew wade chelsea halliday jennifer devian dang d young ashley ashley menser john coop fucking what is happening charlene crocker deanna gudre oh gudreo uh hayley ruling amber eldridge tyler donaldson tim james that's james lions uh derrick platt tommy tony thomas mark James Lyons, Derek Platt, Tony Thomas, Mark Thomas, Kat and Mr. Fish, Emily Mundhank,

Isabella Quick, TC, Mickey Lilly, Shepathial, what? What is that? Shepath Hall? I think, I don't know. Judy Gall. What do the letters say? I know. What do the letters say? Sh Chapat Hall? I think, I don't know. Judy Gall. What do the letters say? I know. What do the letters say?

Chapat Hall? It's all one word. I don't know. So you don't know how it's a thumb or a hook. It might be Chapat Hall. I got you. All right. Okay.

And Angelique Collins, Amanda Spence, Gabrielle Flanagan, Buddy Rogers, paulo prado uh gregory gonzalez i'm trying so hard hector mendez i think yes andrea howard joseph denise gwendoline very and melinda taylor with no last name katie lynn linstead brandy k kimmy uh novak shara pineo casey botcham david nope that's david yeah jacobs david no that's david andrea clench kleinschmidt austin yoder james cairns carlos tavera taveras midwest Greyhound, Sarah with no last name, Dr. Kyle Berkeley, L-C-W-S-C. No. Wow.

L-C-S-W-C. Jesus. All of that stuff. I'm in a lot of trouble. Anthony Fright, Sonia Barbie, Amanda A.E., Joseph Campbell, Jennifer Thomas, Jade Hart, Michael Gruner. i'm so bad at this no you're doing fine john blanks jesse would jess with no last name sean mara ted uh jabara what did i where did i go what did i do i just pressed a button and things went

bad i don't know what happened it's just two fingers right and then it moves around jess campbell jennifer thomas jade hart michael gruner i said that john blanks see now they're all now they're all a mess sean mara ted jabara max de quick key wit sean mcgowan uh steve steve kra. Is that short bus? Can't be. No. I don't know.

Short bus? I don't know. If it's bus, thanks, bus. I don't know. Email has 69 in it. That doesn't sound like our guy. It kind of sounds like our guy. It might be our guy.

It might be our guy. Greg would know his name. Dave Jensen, Katie Brewers, Shane Arvard, Avrard, Kathy Clemus, Emily Self. Whatra quinn dakota with no last name tiffany manson uh susan palich brian a getting gs daris what is this marie dexter christopher brookser what her brooks sure maybe i don't know you're still eddie davis ronald huffer nikki uh kilby rebecca rogers aneska a wholeness you guys told me to do this i blame you marilia valencia valencio matt walker jonathan de mayo de mayo is andrea a brown moose candy candle company oh moose candle company hey mz pearl sarah phillips angela koch bobillony what bobillony mclean i don't know what that is philip stevenson

anya mathis you said that like i know like shaggy seeing a ghost. Ghost. Mark Rawls, Emma. Okay. Emma Shearnethelness. No, that's not right either. Damn it. Noni Tisdale, Lucy King, Reuben Lee. You're doing it like this every week because this is great.

I'm having a ball with this shit. Becky with no last name. Kaylin Dillon. Rod Vought. Jonathan Poblet. Poblita. Not so easy to read off the computer now, is it? Christopher M.H. Taylor. Connor Cameron.

Manlove. Boy, oh boy. Lauren Waters. Brooke with no last name. Marion Hall. Bea Bassett. Rob Nelson. Martha Artis.

Colin Hatfield. Tasha Dixon.ony ciato uh carly nicholson jill g and friend nissisco oh boy god damn it laura harris lena holder lena holderman she's terrific i know who she is raj joshi what? Lion Kawandulula. That's not right either. Taylor Arthur. I'd slow down. Neil Forzord. Diane Anstein. Okay.

It's two fingers and push, and it works. Okay. Kayla Hentages. And she's Frank Antonichio. Laser Buns 22. and she's frank and antonio laser buns 22 uh joshua muller courtney bakey uh valerie shown joshua firmerth yeah nicole greenies greenlee god damn it stephanie muller brandon st george Stephanie Mueller, Brandon St. George, Gene Napier, Michael Hernandez, Cheryl Carter, Missy with no last name, Trish Simpson and Adam Angers, Tim Sam, Melissa Sloss, Kit Bruin, Emily, nope, that's Amelie, Amelie Ross, Jack with no last name, your boy Cohen Clap Kid. Cool.

All right. Stephanie Woodring, Angie Neat, Barbara with no last name, your boy Cohen Clap Kid. Cool. Alright, Stephanie Woodring, Angie Neat, Barbara with no last name, Farida Kenny, Mike Palante, David Tozer, Brandon Clancy, Richard Smalley, Susanna Platt, Sabrina Jones, Marcus Garfunk,

Natasha Patel, Tayusha McPherson, that's TJ Mack. Hey! Payone Ear Inc Steven Schnell Joshua West Brian Harbour Alexander Green Thomas DeMello

Gregory Friedman Karis Mangarelli Karis Mangarelli Eric Lugo Rosa Martinez Carrie, Karis Mangarelli, she donated twice. Eric Lugo, Rosa Martinez, Camilla Viana, Timothy Reynolds, Albert Avila, Janice Hall, Sean Carlson, Sally Matani, Mary Paige Diaz, Joanne Ahern, Grover McDiarmid, Deanna Grimes, Gabrierielle boyer uh laura aguilar we're so close to the end rebecca valdez whitney tolet james graber elizabeth quarles kristin bellinger shannon russell thomas smith grant stansberry jordan bennett of course jordan bennett i didn't have

her in the execs god damn it victoria blout justin sangre duncan wilson uh sarah de leon eric wagner darcy nope that's search quarry what is that uh francis hinsky hitsky hinsky josh denton uh sarah carol amy dairy beery uh amy conley and jesse pits you guys thank you and all of our patrons. You guys are terrific. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. So much, everybody. You have kept us alive and you've kept us going and you've you've given us a reason

for life. Staggeringly overwhelming. Thank you. Thank you so much, honestly, for everything you do and for supporting the show. And we will keep working as hard as we can on these shows. Absolutely. And especially those Patreon episodes. We take those

real seriously we want those to be fucking hilarious for you so thank you for everything you do for us we will never let you down and uh jimmy what if they didn't want you to let them down they can find me on the internet at wisman sucks w-h-i-s-m-a-n sucks on twitter and instagram thank you guys for everything really it. It's really, really overwhelming. It is. Thank you. It's just great to be able to love something and love doing it,

and then you guys like it, too. Someone else cares. And thank you for liking that. Where can they find you, James? I am at JimmyPIsFunny. Just copy and paste. You know how to find people on the goddamn internet. You can do it there.

But that said, wild ride. We're actually upset a man isn't going to be electrocuted to death but besides that wouldn't that be nice yeah that guy yes it would so uh with that said i think it's time to go and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.