Small Town Murder - #212 - Horses Of A Feather - Dean, Texas

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

This week, in Dean, Texas, a man who seemingly has it all, ends up having less life than he would have ultimately have liked to have, but who is responsible? The not so happy wife? Her best friend & husband's assistant? The kids? His business partner? Luckily for police, some very fortuitous breaks come their way, and a picture of a cold blooded, planned out, and absolutely diabolical plot emerges. Will anyone pay the price? Along the way, we find out that dirt can be expensive, that cranberry juice can be dangerous, and that sometimes, not everybody involved gets what they deserve! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Dean, Texas, a mysterious death causes people to look sideways at just about everybody, including spouse, kids, and coworkers. But will investigators ever solve this insane plot?

Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today again and again and again it's uh been crazy as always hope you enjoyed last week up in minnesota there yeah this week we are gonna go we're going down to texas this week so you know it's gonna be a good time yeah a really dusty little town in texas big party yep we did this for our virtual live show and if you saw the virtual live show there is way more information in this version of it as well because that's the live show is a comedy show gotta make it strictly so you know it's a deal with pictures and we're going with things like that so this there's a lot more

information and a lot more more craziness honestly we're gonna go what the hell is going on with this story but before we get to that very very quickly just want to go through and do a little house cleaning yeah thank you for your your reviews right so they're called reviews your reviews But before we get to that, very, very quickly, just want to go through and do a little house cleaning. Thank you for your reviews. That's what they're called. Reviews. Your reviews. Apple Podcasts.

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And I'm in a transition period with technology. I'm going to try to figure out this job. I'll bet you I still mispronounce. Probably. How it's written down isn't going to help your reading ability. So I don't think that's going to help there. And also, if you just want to be a producer, get your name mispronounced and have amazing karma you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com right and uh quickly the

disclaimer this is a comedy show it is uh you know we're going to talk about murder yes it's going to be it's always it's murders it's called small town murder so you can expect somebody to die obviously here but you know it's it's you got to think about it this way it happens every day people are murdered people die and you know people talk about it you see it on the news and everything like that we're not taking joy in the death it's a comedy show but we're not like oh my god dismemberment's hilarious that's not what we're talking about here at all it's it's so much the idea of hey let's kill that guy is a crazy idea and so the third the stuff around it and the people planning it and people trying to get away with it that's the insane part and then there's also awful murder so you know there is all that what we go out of our way to try to do and we try our best not to do is we try not to

make fun of the victim or the victim's family why because we're assholes but we're not scumbags there it is that's how it works right there so that sounds good to you we are going to have a good time true crime and comedy you don't think should ever go together at all and you just it's just a thing we're all up maybe you won't like the show so don't complain later you've been warned but i think you should give it a shot because it's probably not what you think so that sounds good to everybody i think you should sit sit back yeah relax clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this all right let's go on a trip i can't wait all the way down one of these days just going straight down okay straight down from minnesota right all the way the hell down to the desert here in texas oh boy dusty dusty texas we're

going to dean texas yeah ever heard of dean texas i know a guy named dean yeah exactly is he from dean texas i don't know no he's not no one's ever heard of dean texas because it is the middle of nowhere that's basically what it is no one's from there it's it's just a it's an awful place it's a it's it's in north central texas awful i'm sure if you're from there you love it but it's um i don't know what you love i mean there's a lot of dirt you must love the dirt i guess wide open spaces that's what it is like the wide open spaces north north central texas here it's right up by the Oklahoma border. So it's Oklahoma-y as well. He got there.

So it's about two hours. It's weird. It's two hours and 12 minutes to Dallas and two hours and 12 minutes to Oklahoma City. Did they do that on purpose? So I don't understand. They settled this shit after Google? We need to put this dead center between Oklahoma City.

They're going to need gas. You might get hungry, and we're going to be the place to go stop and get that gas. Understand now? Let's do it. All right, on three. Right. Build a gas station. I want one of them loves.

Get one of them prepackaged sandwiches and shit. Put it up there. Trucker showers with jizz all over the place. Gross. That's what we're going to do now. Let's set it it all up that's what i feel like i have those pretty faggot sandwiches are horrible oh nobody you don't know when they were made and the bread is always wet well yeah because it's it's in a package take a sandwich and put it in an airtight container and what do you get it's the moisture is gonna go into the thing especially they're like here have some tuna salad

you're like no no no no we don't know when that was like white stuff with eggs in it there's also some sort of miracle whippers on the brown sheen and the exposed part because it's the air has hit it it's not good the turkey always has like a a silver look to it like you if you hold it in the light it looks kind of like a pearl it's not it's like a trout belly basically yeah you get that trout belly lunch meat having a trout belly sandwich kind of tastes like turkey you know when you're doing well when you got a trout belly trout belly lunch meat gross i got that shit it shimmers it shimmers on in the light when you put it up it just gives it a shimmer it's worth more when it looks like a pearl. Yeah. This place also about five and a half hours to Humble, Texas, which is our last Texas episode.

It was a while ago. Really? We haven't been to Texas. Yeah. It was episode 163, Teenage Killer Lesbian Vampires from Space, if you remember, which was an absolutely insane episode. This is in Clay County, which is rural, man. 2.4 square miles and this

town is just a little triangle if you remember from the virtual live show i showed you it's a little triangle and on the google map the only things that pop up are a church and some like municipal building and that's it a suds yeah a sud is something sud we're like i don't know what the hell that means so but it's it's there's not a lot going on here uh now historically there wasn't much going on for a long time here no not really no it's uh clay county's been the site humans have been here but it's not it's never that's the thing it's weird because some places no one was ever there or people were there but it wasn't like a very habitated area now there's a shitload of people there whereas a place like this always had people just and they then population never grew wow it just stayed small there was like pretty much the same amount of people you know 2500

years ago that there is now it's a small white indian village it's pretty yeah it's very strange uh this there was archaic age hunter-gatherers here back in the day. That was the first people here. And then Indians migrated here. The Wichita and the Teovaya Indians migrated to this area. You know them, Jimmy, obviously. Very familiar. Very familiar.

They migrated there from Kansas and Nebraska beginning about the 1700s. They started hanging out down there. And then the earliest Europeans to come here were Spanish explorers. That makes sense. Yeah, a bunch of expeditions crossing the county and all this sort of shit. Diego Ortiz Perea was the guy, traveled on his way to attack the Indians, as a matter of fact, at the site of the Spanish fort in Montague County at this point.

My God. He traveled that whole state to attack? I'm going to go attack them. He had to be exhausted. Well, they had horses. That was a big deal. His horse was exhausted. That was a big deal.

I don't know how he could attack. Killed him and traded him in. Who knows? I don't think resources were as much the problem. That's a long commute to work. It is, to go all the way across. Yeah, we drove across Texas in a Honda Civic. It was a problem.

So to do it on a horse would be really tiny car, but that's bigger than a horse. Well, also, it's less taxing on the taint. Yeah, a little more suspension. Yeah, a little less bouncing. When we got there, yes, it was a long drive, but our buttholes were not sore. You know, my legs and back. I didn't get off going, oh, Jesus Christ a long drive, but our buttholes were not sore. My legs and back are like a bastard. Oh, Jesus Christ. Man, my butthole.

Boy. So in the 1780s, Pedro Vial and Jose Marez were through this area while exploring routes from San Antonio to Santa Fe. Let's see how we can get from San Antoniotonio to santa fe it's so long trek for nothing i was gonna say it's pretty much the same to end at your starting point santa fe has got some nicer views probably no you go i mean it's i don't know if you like a sunset i don't fucking know yeah new mexico could be new texas it's all the same yeah i know that's it's oklahoma texas new mexico all the same it is it's all i know we drove it it's in arizona too yeah unless you get northern arizona and then it's

like oh there's red rocks and some big trees but all the desert stuff is it's all the same drive feels like from oklahoma to san diego so there was horses uh here obviously the spanish explorers brought in the horses and uh they turned into buffalo hunters at the time. So these huge, giant things that don't move very fast. That's why they became pretty much extinct, was because they're just so easy to hunt. You just stand there, and you kill them. You used to do it from trains. Disgustingly, white people would do it to eradicate the food source of natives.

That's fucked up. That too. But they would do. The reason why that wasn't why they were extinct, though. That was the beginning. The reason why they were extinct is because tourists would come from the east to shoot buffaloes. So they would come and literally pull up a train full of people who would just mow them down and mow down a field full of buffalo out of the side of the train. And then go on the merry way and just leave them there.

Sometimes they get them for, you know, get one for the meat or however they would do it but that was like oh look at you you killed a buffalo aren't you aren't you a pioneer that's why buffalo bill cody was called that because you would just mow them down and leave them yeah well that's smart so uh with the establishment of a fort here in the indian territory after the civil war settlers started to come back because there was a fort so they didn't have to fight every day so they came back and the first residents one of the first ones was a guy named henry a whaley he raised grain and vegetables so that's exciting hell of a life take that oh boy i saw the picture of him and his family too it looked like it all looked like it was a big post-postumous picture it looked like everybody was dead oh my god they all looked like it was a big post-postumous picture. It looked like everybody was dead. I was like, oh my God.

They all look like corpses, these people. The level of hard life it was to be a grain farmer in northern Texas in the 1800s had to be remarkable, the way these people looked. Windworn. Yeah. They look like if you left a car outside for like 12 years and didn't do anything to it. Sun-beaten, windworn, and waterlogged. Wow, what happened? Yeah. They all look like shit. Absolutely. left a car outside for like 12 years and didn't do anything wind worn and waterlogged wow what

happened yeah they all look like shit absolutely they used to do that with with corpses they'll stand them up yeah they take a fucking picture they take pictures they take yeah they still born babies they do a whole thing that's unbelievable it's really weird so it turned into cotton by the uh 20th century here turned into into cotton. They went from about 6,000 acres of cotton in 1890 to 71,000 in 1910. So a lot of cotton. And then the Depression came and the price of all that shit dropped

and all these people had mortgaged their futures. Oh, no. Because in the 20s, cotton, wheat, all these prices were high. So these farmers were buying more land to plant shit to sell shit. So they would borrow from the bank to do that expecting these giant yields and then when the price went in the shitter they

all owed the bank for acres and acres that their original property was mortgaged on and that's why people lost their farms that's how that's how that happened so yeah it was uh it was kind of ugly so i found a review of this town which i was at. Usually if it's like under a thousand people, it's hard to find reviews. I guess people don't go there that often. So they found Malibu here. This one. Well, I mean, not really. It's just kind of somebody likes it.

Four stars. It says rural area, farming and ranching community close enough to the city to go shopping in college and still come home at night to get away from the city lights to see the stars and moon. Okay. So when they say city, they mean Wichitaichita falls by the way i'm not shitting you wichita falls is like right there yeah that's the city that they're referring to so i don't you know you could probably see the moon okay in wichita falls i saw the map of the place it's not very big it's like a hundred thousand people in the entire metropolitan area. I know that's a few more keystrokes, but call it what it is, and it's town square. That's what I mean. You're there.

So people in this town, speaking of the population, is 489, which is quite small. It's a tiny town. It's up 76%, though, since 1990. So people have moved here from the city, I guess, wichita falls more males than females here i don't know if just because there's a lot of ranching okay here so it's a lot of oil and ranching so maybe you're gonna get the you know just the ranchers are more likely to be male it's a tough gig usually it's a tough gig well i mean yeah but they're just it's one of those things i don't i don't know what the hiring policies are of ranches but i don't know if they're like now we believe in gender equality above all above all really uh our bathrooms are

unisex as you can see i just don't know if that's the case or if it's like you hire a bunch of dudes to sleep in a fucking thing together that's probably to sleep in a barn together and if if we put a woman out there they're they going to rape her. It's going to happen. Something's going to happen. I don't want to be responsible for eight farmhands attacking one poor woman. So, yeah, maybe that's what happened. Median age here is up. It's about 44, which is about eight years, seven, eight years over the normal, what we see.

Married population way higher than normal. It's like 66 married it's a lot of these rural areas you're going to get that with the you know not a lot of single people moving out there to groove and find people single people with no children is pretty low here so uh the race of this town though uh this is pretty about what you'd expect here 92 percent white so uh you know 0.0 percent black yeah i have found no evidence of sundown townness here as a lot of texas towns i'm not saying it's not possible but i haven't they didn't put it on the sign some of the you know some of these towns put it on the sign literally out now yeah yeah

this i don't know if this was just unspoken or maybe not maybe it's just black people don't want to live here i'm not sure it's just texas you know the rules yeah it's just black people don't want to live here. I'm not sure. It's just Texas. You know the rules. Yeah. It's kind of, yeah. Y'all stick to the city, I think, is the rules. Maybe. I'm not sure. I don't. And like we said, we don't live in Texas, so we don't know. All we do know about Texas is that when you drive through it, we have to subsidize your

roads and schools by getting bullshit speeding tickets for 20 miles over what we're actually doing. You're welcome for the asphalt cap that we bought for you wherever it went that's all we know about texas so that's why we have a hint of bitter all the other places we're just joking we don't know texas we're bitter because it cost us money and it was bullshit we know it's bullshit it's the only place that i've had police interaction yeah that's it and especially that it was like very negative too where it was just like no we definitely were on cruise control at 77 nope 93 right near the ticket what are you

talking about the fucking cruise control was on if this passenger didn't have weed sir i'd have a word with you about this i was like all right well let's go along with it and then we felt like we won as long as there's no handcuffs I got a shitload of weed on me. So fuck him. So enjoy your $278 scoreboard, asshole. Nice, nice instincts. Could have impressed your fucking superiors. But no, you were lazy.

Took the easy way out. You went with the Pennsylvania license plate bullshit. That's what you did. In rental cars. went with the pennsylvania license plate bullshit that's what you did in rental car so uh 1.6 percent asian it is here and uh 2.9 percent hispanic which seems very low for anywhere with texas in the title sure i feel like so that's and mexico so close well yeah it's like arizona in that way where if you see a town in arizona you heard two percent hispanic you go what what are you talking about yeah it would be very hard to fathom that maybe up north possibly in the mount even there though it's no it's so

heavy still yeah so it's very strange this seems on purpose but you know i don't know put it that way uh 57 almost 58 percent are religious and baptist is the wow i'll tell you what 37 and a half percent of the people are baptist baptists are the catholics of the bible belt plains region i don't know wow not a lot of the wall 1.6 catholic which i feel like that's the hispanic people and uh they get sneered at probably yeah i don't know about that church you know the one the ones with it don't come up on the google map put it that way eating jesus i think i heard all sorts they get drunk in there drinking the blood It don't come up on the Google map. Put it that way. They're eating Jesus in there. I think I heard all sorts. They get drunk in there, drinking the blood.

I don't know what the hell's wrong with these people. So otherwise, though, it's pretty 0.0% Jewish. It's Texas. It's a tiny town in Texas here. Now, unemployment rate here is about average for now. We'll see when those numbers shake out. Median household income, though, is high, actually. There's a lot.

The jobs are, it's weird because everybody either makes like $150,000 a year or $30,000 a year. That's kind of how this works here. It's not a lot of people making in between. So it's a lot of construction and oil and gas jobs around here seem to be the dominant job force. But median household income, $62,813, which is $5,000 over the average here. It's not bad. No. Cost of living was $100, which that's like being average here.

It's $81,000. Okay. So not too bad. Housing is low, though. Housing is a $48,000. Yeah. So pretty goddamn low. Median home cost, $112,300.

Best kept secret in Texas. Yeah. Well, it's out there. Maybe that's... I'm not sure. You can make $150,000 and buy a house on a scale of 100 at $48? That's incredible. A lot of the houses, though, come with a shitload of land, so they're expensive. So if you buy a...

It's hard to find those houses. 81% of the houses here are worth $200,000 or less. Incredible. So it's pretty sparse here the rental market zero it said i found a thing it says 0.0 percent of houses and apartments are available to rent oh the goddamn one don't don't bother with that but if we've convinced you damn it that this is the place for you you need to get away from the big city of wichita falls and see the stars and the moon and we have for you the dean texas real estate report your average two-bedroom rental which is not available at all right

have but when one opens up it's gonna be about 738 dollars which is about 500 under the national average. It's going to be. So when you get on that waiting list for the two apartments. I found the first house here. It's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,485 square feet. It's pretty scary on the inside. The carpets look like a murder scene was cleaned up.

It looked like possibly our episode could have taken place there. Not terrific. 1485 square feet. The listing says lots of potential in this three bedroom, which means rip it to the drywall, everybody. Lower. To the studs, motherfucker.

To the studs. 59,900 bucks, though, for that. You're gonna see nail heads. Yeah. Not that bad, though, for the. You're going to see nail heads. Yeah. Not that bad, though, for the price, I guess, if you want to strip a house down to nothing. House number two is just land. It is 91 acres of land. Oh, my. Yeah.

It says no fences, buildings, or improvement, but it's class two magnum silty clay loam soil. Class two. Class two. Magnum. When I hear silty, I think robust vegetation. class two magnum when i hear silty i think robust vegetation you know it could be maybe usually clay is tough for roots to settle it seems like it's silty doesn't sound good for that either it's either too hard or too soft either one that sounds sandy but they want like two million dollars for this though holy shit 91 acres i don't know for a

secession plan. That's what that is. It's your own little state. Your own little country. House number three is three bedroom, two bath, 1,754 square feet. And it is Texas, Texas, Texas. Boy, the whole house is just cow skins and horns. And I'm telling you, like the chandelier is antlers.

Oh, boy. It's no shit. Texas Roadhousehouse sign stars yeah it's wild texaco station it looks like if they did a reality show that was like we're gonna do texas and like make and then that's the house everyone has to live in that's what it looks like that's the they decorated it like that yeah it's It's fucking silly. Yeah. It's 1754 square feet. 4.28 acres, though. That's great. That's not bad. 750,000 for that.

For four acres. For four acres. And all Texas. Yeah. Well, it's got a bunch of like barns and a metal barn. Okay. It's got all sorts of outbuildings. Structures everywhere.

Yeah. If you were like doing outdoor shit, you could barns. Four acres, though. That's good. Four acres. Buildings fucking everywhere. Absolutely. Things to do.

The Clay County Pioneer Reunion. Oh, yeah. Oh, boy. Reunite the people that are dead. There are no pioneers. They describe how this happens. They pretty much do exhume the corpses here. It says, quote, Howdy, pioneers and visitors.

Well, howdy. Howdy. Howdy and a hearty yeehaw to all you as well i like how you flipped around y'all all you all you well that's that's that's italian style yeah you just civilized y'all well that's the thing the south it's y'all and in new york it's all use all use it's different it's a different thing it's the same but different all of you all of you is one word and you all it's uh it's all you all of yous if it's many yeah it's one person you're talking about them in their group it's all of you but then if there's

10 people it's all of yous you gotta put a that's how works. Open your fingers and blanket them, which it works. All he is. All he is. All he is are bums, I tell you. Y'all's are bums. Yeah, see? Same thing. Just depends where you're from. It's all the same.

It's all the same. We're gearing up here in Clay County for our annual Pioneer Reunion. Yeah. Rodeos and parades. If you like barbecue, country music, bull riding, and good old, old. Old. Not old. Old.

But the apostrophe's on the wrong side. It's on the front. It's on the front. So that's fun. Family fun. Yeah. You'll definitely want to mark down the third weekend in September on your vacation calendar. Perfect.

So there you go. If you like, I like barbecue, and then it kind of gets a little. I like all of it, but the family fun. It's a little less after that. There's never any fun when the family's around no that's just that's bonding time that's just we're we're doing shit so the kids have fun right don't complain and then you know later on we get to go i'm gonna put them to bed and scream that was brutal the texas dog fest hell yeah oh baby there will be real dogs and hot dogs it says incredible bring out your dogs they'll have so much fun meeting and making new furry and non-furry friends which sounds like there'll be sex which is creepy i want to go to that yeah

bring a blanket it says and i uh meet some fellow dog lovers okay i just want to go compliment everybody's dog. You're going to have a wagon good time, it says on here. Yeah, bitch and beagle. Oh, that's a pretty one. That's an awesome Afghan. And it says you don't have to have a dog. Dog's not required, which is hilarious,

because if it was like a child's pageant, you wouldn't be like, kid's not required. I'm here to look at the kids, just some guy showing up. Nope, sorry sorry that's why i love dogs i don't have to have one to tell you that your yorkie is fantastic nobody thinks you want to fuck it though you know what i mean whereas if you said hey good kid there they'd be like he's gonna try to fuck right it's a different thing completely because most people probably are that's the gross part so you can't walk by and be like that is a beautiful little boy no it

doesn't work fuck you sir and then the legends of western swing music festival oh baby this um it sounds really boring they just it's like a bunch of really old people yeah the pictures of it are like a dance floor with like a dozen pretty elderly couples slow dancing while other elderly people play music. Horrific. It doesn't look like a lot of fun, but I mean, maybe if it's your thing, it's your thing. So either way, crime rate,

what we're interested in here in this whole thing, crime rate, property crime is actually a little under the national average, about one-third under. I think it'd be less than that. There's nobody here. It should be zero. And it's all the pictures of this place. It's just you could see from one side of the town to the other

because it's just flat dirt. So who's committing crimes? Everyone can see. If anything happens, you go, Oh, is that Eddie Robin Bill again? Oh, I seen him. He's a half mile away, but I can see him from here. He's right at the clearest day.

You're never out of sight. He wears that same damn hat every goddamn time I see him. I know it's but I can see it from here. He's right at the clearest day. You're never out of sight. He wears that same damn hat every goddamn time I see him. I know it's him. I see it from here. That is the thing about country western gear. Yeah. You always look like the same dude. You ain't getting away with shit.

They're all trying to be a silhouette, a human silhouette. That's what it is. If they could, they would just stand against a wall with one foot up yeah and that would be on all times but they're like i can't get places like that unfortunately um it's hard in my car i can't find a stand-up car right and then on top of that uh you know when i want to walk it doesn't work much either but then my foot falls asleep every damn time i've been eating all this barbecue bad circulation you know how it works so uh violent crime here murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime uh is about half oh the

national average very safe it's a safe little town absolutely that said we need to talk about a murder that happened here fantastic it was not so safe no uh let's talk about it let's talk about a guy first let's talk about a man yeah here um guy named jerry yeah talk about jerry all chair jerry jerry eli sternadel yeah by the way the funny part is we did this for our uh virtual live show here so i hope the people who we did this with the uh intent of like because i went through and i added a bunch there was a bunch more details so reworked it and you know did the added a bunch of shit to it so our intent was we want the people who saw the virtual live show to now get like a totally different spin on it yeah and the fun part is jimmy if you saw the virtual live show had a lineup of dixie cups full of whiskey

in front of them that's all you had in the fucking house for shot glasses i gotta use the kids mouthwash cups and not only that uh that was like round three so i don't think jimmy is probably too uh up on this story my memory fades after shot four or five it was a month ago but you probably remember it better than he does and so it'll be all new to him and on top of that there's a bunch of new info so we're plus there we got me metallica blackened whiskey and it's delicious oh absolutely holy shit i don't know who's making it which one of those fuckers but they did a great job i don't know james hetfield's in rehab constantly so hopefully it's probably him probably him i assume would be large he's the one who would be like maybe i don't know if he drinks even i don't know james does he's a he gets shit

james would know which one to make you know what i mean yeah i don't know i feel like he's just like what do you got there absolute vodka sure pour some shit together and get them fucked up put it in a bowl put it with some that and just a drop of uh drop of uh 40 weight in there also i'd like that also in there if you could put pens oil taste if you could mix those up together all you got that's fine i guess i prefer i prefer pens oil but if you're gonna get crazy it's called blackened use the used shit i mean the quaker state is that's top. Run it through a diesel and then put it in there. That's what I'm looking for. So, Jerry.

Jerry Eli Sternadel is his name. He is born February the 18th, 1941. So, at this point, he would be an older gentleman. But he didn't make it that far. Well, I mean, we didn't make it to 80. It's true. It's Texas. Who lives that long in Texas? Well, I mean, yeah. He's eating a it that far. We'll talk. Well, I mean, we didn't make it to 80. It's true. So who knows? It's Texas. Who lives that long in Texas?

Well, I mean, yeah. He's eaten a lot of beef. Yeah. A lot of brisket. Brisket. Jesus. Which I don't blame you because it's delicious. You ever had breakfast jerky?

It's fantastic. That's the thing. Yeah. Texas is good for, they do have some good food there. They make meat. I like, yeah. Incredibly. I like beef yeah so i'm i'm all about beef in texas and this shit is good man i gotta give them credit for that they they do know what they're doing let grow a cow right oklahoma

kansas city too had really good beef the whole area had good beef omaha had great steak omaha had the worst steak i've ever had in my life i had the worst steak I've ever had in my life. I had the worst steak I've ever had in my life in Omaha. It was fucking terrible. It was probably an Omaha steak. It was terrible. I was so, I was like, okay, so the one thing that you have to offer this entire goddamn city that you guys are so happy to say, look at what we're good at, you're not good at it.

Thanks. Thanks, Omaha. Pieces of shit. Let's have another Uber driver tell me a Warren fucking buffet would be here. Pieces of shit.'s have another uber driver tell me how warren fucking buffy would be here all i wanted was a fucking steak i loved no hotel rooms the place is a goddamn nightmare the crowd's one of the best crowds we've ever performed in front of but nobody was from there they were all like i drove in from here i drove from Iowa, I drove from over there. No one's from there. I'm convinced

nobody lives there except Uber drivers and Warren Buffett and Liz Vasquez, who's amazing and wonderful. She's terrific. So anyway. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Bye-bye. community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing

secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Jerry here. He's born in Wichita County, Texas. This is his area. He kind of grows up here his whole life. Yeah.

And he's a Texas guy. Weird part is he looks like a kid from Brooklyn. When you see his pictures, I look at him and I'm like, he looks like a fucking... Everybody you grew up with. He looks like just some Italian guy from the 50s. Like, he just, hey, how you doing?

He should be singing around a burning barrel or something. I'm like, in a doo-wop group. What the hell is going on here? This is the difference between y'all and y'alls. All of y'alls. What is it? All yous. There it is.

All yous. All yous. All yous is a big one. It's the same person, though. Same person, yeah uh his mom's name is marshalleen marshalleen mazel will banks that's his mom lean is thrown on the end of everything they like it they like it down there yeah they like the leans it'll be charlene right marshalleen and debaulene debaulene you know how they all go everything Everything lean. Yeah, that's right.

I'm so happy I got married to my beautiful wife, Sarah Lean. She's wonderful. She's mad lean, son. She's mad lean, Marshall Lean. So Eli is his dad. So Eli's a farmer and Marshall Lean's a housewife. So Jerry grows up on a farm with a farmer dad and a housewife mom in the 40s and 50s in Texas. And when you see him, too, he's like a freckly kid.

And he's like, every picture of him, he's in sports, in some kind of sport. He's very good at ping pong, apparently. Weird. Yes, he wins like ping pong tournaments. I see him with ping pong trophies. There's only three of those people in the world in the 50s, so that's why. Yeah, I mean, I don't know who he's facing off against, but I don't know what the competition was like, but he was at the top of it.

He was also a high school basketball player and pretty good at that. Pretty much all the sports he excels in as a child. He enrolls in Wichita Falls in the university there. And he's very ambitious. He's one of these guys that doesn't mind going to school in the day and then work until midnight and getting up. He's one of those guys. Hard work and some bitch. He has a lot of goals, Jerry. Just a lot of goals.

Can't get him sitting on the couch. No. And he wants to be wealthy. That's his goal here. He wants to build something. he wants to be wealthy that's his goal here he wants to build something so he uh he attended also midwestern university which i've never heard of uh while working part-time at the local dairy isn't that online i not then probably obviously probably not in 1962 i would assume but you know maybe now that's possible is it like university of phoenix is adjunct i think yeah i think it is

university of southern new hampshire whatever is. What's the one with all the commercials? That's Southern New Hampshire. Why do they pick that as a thing? Oh, well, when I think of Southern New Hampshire, now I'm thinking of education. But Southern New Hampshire has an actual campus, too. Does it? It does. Well, okay.

I mean, I know where it is. I've seen it. All right, but on the commercials, they make it sound like it's just a mainframe room. You can attend an Oregon. With one guy. Well, it is i've seen it all right but i mean on the commercials they make it sound like it's just a mainframe room you can attend an or with one guy well it is it's a it's a they're not telling you to fly there i don't think i mean they're not saying everyone's gonna swarm to southern oregon or maybe they've just got the campus and like you virtually live in a dorm i feel like that's what it is you live there isn't this nice you set it all up Yeah. What the hell is that game my daughter used to play? No, no. It's this other game where you set everything up.

You build a room? It's Club Penguin. That's it. You build your own Club Penguin room, basically. In New Hampshire, and you stay wherever you live. Yeah, you stay there. It's fun. You're like, oh, I just got new stuff for my dorm.

Well, you're in Oregon. It's always brand new. It's always new. Yeah. So, yeah, he would work for the dairy and loaded crates of milk onto delivery trucks. That's his job. Crates?

Yeah, back then, crates. How do you seal it? Heavy. Yeah. Well, not the milk itself, I assume. Okay. I don't think it's just a vat of milk. Just a crate full of...

I assume... You pick it up and it's just coming out of the cracks. Loose milk. Pour it out. However much is left when you get there. Some wet shoes at the end of the day. No, no. however much is left when you get shoes at the end of the day i assume it's in containers in a crate so uh he meets a girl named genie around this time now genie a lot of the stuff from this episode comes from genie's book and so i have to

credit genie for this genie wrote a book about this whole thing so everything a lot of this stuff is through the lens of Jeannie, his wife at this point. And you'll find out how that works out. And it's a very odd story. So let's do this here. They get married in the summer of 1963, which is just a...

Fuck, man. Think about that. That's just a whole... Wow, that's such a different time. It is. The summer of 63. This is like Kennedy hadn't even been shot yet. Oh, that's right. different time it is summer of 63 this is like kennedy hadn't even been shot yet oh that's right think about that no this is still like everybody's happy time my mom's three yeah it's like yeah it's i mean our parents are very little this is i mean still the constant

threat of nuclear annihilation from russia and all that sort of shit but people got used to that yeah that was like covid yeah like they were like yeah i get it you know i'm gonna die you built a bunker you put a mask on it's the same shit till then i'm gonna go yeah yeah i built a bunker it's fine i got it if the bomb comes i'll go sit down there it's all right that's the people like i know i put the mask on and i go out and then i stay away from everybody and then whatever because i'm tired and that's what the people there were saying the same shit. So by this time, that's just a different time. I mean, you're going around carefree kind of at that time. So then she becomes pregnant.

Jeannie does. Jerry quits college because he needs to get a full time job because his wife is pregnant here. And he gets a job working for a company delivering linens and uniforms to businesses. Okay. So that's like a you get a set of burlap coveralls yeah that you work down at the garage yeah and they go there you go come in a big white bag with everybody else's shit no everyone else's you don't even know which one is yours it's just you had a large right medium this one says ray on the patch they

all say ray i'll say ray so people are more comfortable yeah handing their keys to a guy named ray for some reason we've done it's market survey it's market research we did a focus group and ray is the most trustworthy name to give your car to it was weird now it's a strange because it's different if you're gonna let them like fix something in your house right you know what i mean then they're looking for more of a steve right more of like that kind of a thing but more welcoming name it's a steve it's it feels more like homie you know what i mean? Then they're looking for more of a Steve. Right. More of like that kind of a thing. More welcoming name. It's a Steve. It feels more like homie.

You know what I mean? Just like a. They know his real name's Steven. It's real familiar. Ray, they just don't want shit to do with you. No, they do. They throw you the keys until you enjoy. I don't know.

What the hell? He don't shit. Just get under that hood. He's making a noise. See you around. Get under that hood now. So he gets a promotion because he's a really hard worker. He gets a promotion within a couple of months and he gets a promotion because he's a really hard worker he gets a

promotion within a couple of months and he becomes a manager here and didn't have to drive the delivery truck anymore great jerry everything he does he kind of moves up a little bit uh jerry then gets a job working full-time for a plumbing for a plumbing company as a plumber right so he gets his master plumber's license and uh you know he's trying to this is a good trade yeah plumbing you make a lot of money tough work it's tough work i mean you can everybody can do it no definitely not but it's one of those jobs where if you don't have a college education and you can do that you can make good goddamn money yes the same amount of money that more money than somebody went to college and you know because it's a skill right i don't know how to

work with fucking pipes it's you gotta measure you gotta do that it's a skill. Christ, I don't know how to work with fucking pipes. You got to measure. You got to sweat shit. Solder is hard, man. You got to know how to do shit. This is like it's definitely a skill that you need to learn. So they started. What they did was this was a bigger company, and any kind of smaller jobs they wouldn't accept. It was just like a little residential job or even smaller commercial jobs.

$200? We don't have time for that shit. Yeah, they were more about working on smaller commercial jobs. $200, we don't have time for that shit. Yeah, they were more about working on big commercial jobs. So what they would do, and like, you know, new housing developments and shit like that. So any of the small jobs that they would turn down, Jerry would pick them up at night. He'd go, I'll take care of it. I can do it for you for, you know, cheaper, blah, blah, blah. So jobs add up.

Yep. He had his license. He had a pickup truck he had some tools and he was you know trying to piecemeal together these outside jobs to build a little extra cash for his family that was growing uh he started jerry sternadel plumbing which um i guess that sounds like a plumber name you you're looking for a jerry at home yeah yeah if i'm look you know what i like this if i if my plumbing's fucked up i want want Jerry working on it. Sure.

Ray on my car and Jerry on the plumbing. So now Jeannie jumped right into the wife. She's doing like all the estimates and the appointments and all that sort of shit. So they were, you know, that she do the bids also. So she's doing all the business then and he's going out and fixing pipes. That's the way they do it. They build a nice little family here, a couple of kids, daughter named Becky, son named Sandy. So, yeah, they're doing well.

Can't beat it. I wonder if he named them after Sandy Koufax. Probably, right? Because that was the time when it was the mid-60s. Had to be. Probably, because I didn't know back then of many other men named Sandy. The only man that I've ever heard of named Sandy is, other than Koufax, is Wexler, which isn't even a real character.

Yeah, there you go. It's not even a real person. So, yeah, I feel like a lot of people probably named their kids after Sandy Koufax back then. It's probably true. Because he was a bad motherfucker. So, anyway, at the end here, there's not enough, they don't have enough money to get a plumber's helper

because they're trying to get these jobs. They have to bid low. And so they're bidding low to get jobs. And so they can't afford to hire a plumber's helper. So Jerry just teaches Jeannie how to be his apprentice. So it's kind of a husband and wife plumbing team at this point. Hand me the torch. I mean, hey, they're doing it.

So they ended up uh building this business they started securing some commercial jobs and doing all this type of shit and uh after a while he talks she talks jerry into quitting his day job great making the company that's this thing it's a risk you know it's you know it's that they're kind of they got to the point where they felt like they were losing more money by him working than yep then gaining so they had to you know you got to believe in yourself for sure dump it into your damn business and that's what they did so uh the profits went to get additional tools and supplies and you know trucks and they hired people and they're they really tried uh to build the company and do something good right and i only tell you about all this too uh because he builds quite the empire yeah and uh

he becomes a millionaire plumbing king plumbing king big uh big ranch and uh racehorses and uh you name it he becomes wheeler and dealer mr plumbing guy so that's how it started though from very humble beginnings of just you know this together, him and his wife. Sounds like a wonderful story. Hell yeah. At this point, everyone's going, where's the murder? Who's going to die? How is anybody getting dead here?

This sounds wonderful. Why don't they just retire and die peacefully of cancer like the rest of us? They sound happy. We never get happy people. Turns out, though, they're not so happy after all. We never get happy people. Turns out, though, they're not so happy after all. No.

There's quite a few instances here in Jeannie's book where she details some abuse by him. What? And it's very strange because it comes seemingly out of nowhere and is really aggressive. It's awful. and is really aggressive. It's a really aggressive abuse that seems to come out of nowhere. And it's every kind of abuse. Like it just comes from out of nowhere. Like one particular event that I'll get into. I won't get into the details of it because it's not about the murder. And, you know, if I don't have to talk about sexual assault in detail,

I'd rather not. So, you know, one of those things. But apparently he uh he had raped his wife at one point which is terrible obviously that's possible um he did this yeah if she's she didn't want to do it so yeah well he did it with he tied her up and everything was an awful thing and the point was the whole point was to get her, he wanted to get her pregnant again. And there, she's very religious genie, from what I understand. In her book, every chapter starts with a psalm.

And like, there's a lot of like, and then we prayed. And then we had to pray about it. And so, I mean, that's exactly, that's who she's looking for. So, she's very much into that. I often say that when people talk about religion i just like roll my eyes and go jesus yeah i don't know if it's insulting to them or if they think i'm like on probably yeah i assume it's certainly they think i'm on board they think it's like a signal oh he's into it that's kind of why i do it you want to talk more about him okay that's just what i was hoping for here we go so apparently she apparently their birth control method was don't fuck on these days.

That's their birth control method of, you know, these are the bad days because I could get pregnant. So she put X's on her calendar on the bad days of not to the non most popular for the most ovulation happened impossible in her mind. So Jerry went and saw when these days were, and that's when he chose to do this. And then afterwards. Yeah. And then afterwards he told her that's why he did it.

Oh, God. So it was really ugly. Really, really ugly. Don't fuck me. Calendar. Yeah. Fucked you. Take that.

Yeah. Lord. What do you think of that? That's awful. It's disgusting. Yeah. He's not great. He leaves her tied up also for, you know, a whole afternoon.

And it's just a it's an ugly scene. Yeah. Really ugly scene here. Not not a pleasant chapter to read about. But, you know, apparently it happened. So unsurprisingly, not surprisingly, 1972, they get a divorce, which I mean, holy shit. Good. I'm happy that she got away from that because clearly that's not a good situation for someone to be in.

So she decides, Jeannie, that she does not want any of the shit. She doesn't want half the business. She doesn't want him because she could have pushed it. They probably would have had to sell the ranch and then liquidate it and split it and all that. She said, no, no, this has been your dream. You've wanted to be a plumber. And this is your ranch. then liquidate it and split it and all that she said no no this has been your dream you've wanted to be a plumber and yeah this is your ranch i'm not gonna take it all i want is my personal property and that's it okay that's it also texas is very on the side of the father i was gonna say in marriages in 1972 especially i don't know even more so i don't know

if they were like i mean yeah we want to believe you but you got what we call a dishonest vagina right um that's it's down here in texas that's something we call now it just means you have a vagina right that we did consider that uh sign of dishonesty we realize that dishonest vagina is a bit redundant yeah we really need to get it get it home to you in the head see them vagina monologues i don't believe a word that they're saying is what i'm getting at it's all lies they're untrustworthy and liars so that's what i mean now uh she ends up with her property which included a 1969 ford ltd yeah uh that jerry will put sugar in the gas tank and try to destroy here coming up in a minute it was gonna break down anyway jare yeah give it a little while yeah it's a 69 ford ltd it's fine uh jerry gets everything else jerry has to pay 100 a month

for each child and child support that's so 200 bucks a month he gets to keep the ranch the business and she gets a car that he tried to put sugar in the gas tank in 69 and 72 72 so he basically uh the gas tank thing she went to go get gas drove from her house somewhere to get gas and the guy went to put the gas in full service back then and go stopped it when you got sugar all over your gas thing here like what the hell somebody tried to put sugar in your gas tank either that or your car runs on cocaine man i don't know what you got some some good booger sugar going on here that's a that's a high that's a high octane i tasted it it's very sweet it's a 93 octane i think it's gonna run this bad boy no problem let's just say that so uh yeah she she got lucky and it

didn't get sucked into the engine yet so she had to tow it away and all that shit so what neighbors had seen jerry creeping around her car and then driving away the night before. So, yeah, everybody knew it was Jerry doing that shit. And then he stalks her. Yeah, he just stalks her. They're divorced and he got all the shit that he wanted and everything. But that's not enough. You won, Jerry.

Well, he's going to win more. He's going to try to anyway. She goes to the pharmacy to get a prescription and then uh for one of her kids here and jerry followed her and she put in the book as usual jerry was following me so this seems like a thing a problem he pulled up to the drugstore parked his car beside her once she came out of the pharmacy he popped out of his truck and pointed a rifle at her and said are you coming back to me do i have to shoot you oh boy so it's like those are two very different questions number one um you can answer one from two probably if you know

because of you know right two and so no how emasculating is rejection to this guy apparently very emasculating i don't know what his problem is but he's going to try to dominate her dominate her with a rifle apparently she said go ahead and shoot me and was like kind of had a little freak out because she she said she was losing her mind because he was stalking her so she was like i don't even care anymore and that made him go away yeah but this didn't stop he just continued to stalk her she said she would stop at a traffic light and then he would pull up next to her and be like hi you know sometimes he'd just pull his rifle up at her and wave at her and drive away and very weird stuff that she's claiming he did so seems remember me remember hi i still still got the rifle nice to nice to see oh and i'm behind you all the time hi wow i mean jesus this is uh

disturbing i would say is a good way to put it uh right around this time jerry meets a new woman great named luann maybe that'll stop everything else well yeah it does it stops the stalking good so i mean i guess he's busy now he meets a woman named luann ford uh it's her birth name here she uh they get married on january 27th 1973 like pretty much right after yeah it's a he was seeing her already right had to have been gotta but he's still stalking his ex-wife it's very weird shit he's he's only 31 years old at this point too it's not even like you know i got nothing else it's like you're 31 you got a big plumbing thing and a ranch and all this shit you're a millionaire 31 what the fuck is wrong with you?

Smile. Yeah, get your head out of your ass, dude. Smile, cupcake. What the fuck? Yeah. Y'all need to smile. Yeah. Luanne here was born in 1946.

She's about six years younger than him. Now, she had a, it's alleged that she has a twin sister who died at birth. Awesome. That's what she tells everybody. So we don't know if that's true or if that's just uh what her story is that's a fun story you know one of those things that she's like made up as a teenager and then like people are like oh that's interesting and so she just kept saying it i'm not sure if that's how it worked or what nobody knows those fun those fun lies when nobody can corroborate it those are the best ones and it was was in 1946 in rural Texas.

So if they had one that didn't make it, I don't know if they'd even document it or if they'd just give it to the dogs. I have no idea. First, let's take pictures and then give it to the dogs. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what they did back in the 40s. It's the 40s. It's the 40s.

It's not even about Texas. We got a surplus of babies. I mean, the war just ended. We got a lot going on. So when Luann actually was married to a guy named Alva Parshall Mogg in 1969, she had an 18-month-old daughter when she was married. Like, when she got married, she already had an 18 month old daughter when she was married like when she got married she already had an 18 month old and then they end up getting a divorce and uh when they get a divorce she's got a four month old baby by that time so she's got two kids coming into this she gets

divorced on january 16th 1973 she marries jerry january 27 1973. So she waits a whole nine days and they get married. So this is definitely you can definitely see this is going to work out swell. Right. So there's a bit of an issue with Luann doesn't really like Jerry's kids that much. It seems like it seems like she's not real into Jerry's kids. And you could see why i mean she had she has two babies of the dads that aren't around obviously and yeah they were at the beginning of a relationship and the tail end of she doesn't understand the value and what what how to love

a kid maybe i i don't know i don't i don't know i have any idea it feels like it just from those explanations she just wants like a life with Jerry where they have whatever. And that's like his past life. So it just seems like she doesn't really have a whole lot of interest in that. And it just the attitude toward the kid seems to be different. Well, we'll put it this way. The mother, Jeannie, gets a letter from the Texas Department of Human Resources about her daughter in the mail. So if you get a letter from the government about your kid,

then there might be an issue with the stepmom. So she says, quote, I talked with your daughter, Becky, on November 15, 1978. This was a few years later. She is a very attractive girl, fashionably dressed to need an appearance. Calm down. Okay. Thanks, I guess. Put your dick away away this is weird

i guess thanks luckily it's a lady named jolene okay so i picture like a like a chubby red-headed lady looks like mrs garrett maybe in texas she will steal your man big oh yeah well it's jolene she's aged you know she's aged not well but she'll now steal your kid that's the thing she's very attractive girl. So she told me that her father forbade her to correspond with you because you and she made a complaint about her stepmother to the Wichita Falls child welfare. So this is where we're going here. The kid and the mom are making a complaint to child welfare about the stepmom. And then she's the father's forbading the kid to talk to them, forbidding the kid to talk to the mother this is a in the states involved this is a mess yeah this is a mess um she said that she would like to live with you since becky is 14 years old and under

texas law has the legal right to stay with whom she wants to live uh she has a legal right to say with whom she wants to live you could perhaps engage an attorney and attempt to regain conservatorship of her. I talked with Mr. Sternadel, Jerry there, on January 23rd, 1979. He was very difficult to reach. He was not informed that I had spoken with Becky. I asked him what your visitation rights were. He said that he thought it was that in the summer at his house, he'd said that he does forbid Becky to see you and correspond with you because it is his opinion that becky has problems after being in touch with you so uh basically this lady

goes on to say if you want to like try to get better visitation like you know this is what i suggest you do and this is you know seems like this lady's like uh this is pretty fucked up yeah and your day your husband seems like a dick and so you know maybe if you want to try to see your kids this is how you could help um and jerry doesn't seem like the best dad like don't see your mom because then you have problems you have problems you know it's all problems after you see her real bitchy when you're just like yeah that's what it seems like you're acting she probably he probably Yeah, he's acting like your mother after you see your mother. He's one of those assholes.

So 1980 here, I found in the newspaper from some goddamn newspaper, some rural newspaper in 1980 about a horse race in New Mexico that his horse won. So look at this. Deep Night, it's called. Deep Night got off to a slow start, but picked up steam to win the 400 yard headline race. race one that his horse won oh so look at this deep night it's called okay uh deep night got off to a slow start but picked up steam to win the 400 yard headline race so there you go it's uh ruse uh rudoso downs in new mexico okay there you go so his horse won deep night wow uh return that name it returned 780 to win so you know so it was you bet a dollar and you get 780 yeah seven dollars and 80 that's

great it's not bad that's 20 you get a lot that's not bad at all if you bet on the right horse the parlay and you're really really bringing it in put that parlay on them see how that works now may 22nd 1990 um so we're going to skip ahead about 10 years here from the horse to that. Nothing really has changed. Yeah. Very, very contentious shit going on between always between Jeannie, Jeannie, Luann, Jerry. There's always a big fight going on. Sure. Oh, yeah. There's one point when Jeannie comes over to pick up the kids and Luann won't let her won't open the door and the kids are there so that's

kidnapping yeah so it's a big mess and Jeannie ends up like breaking some glass and then they end up in a big brawl and they're fighting on the ground and the cops come while they're pulling each other's hair it is a Texas tumble boy let me tell you something that's uh it's a lot of hairspray and a lot of big hair grabbing and swinging around and breaking a big old texas window yeah it's a lot it's a lot happening there let them fight it out a minute yeah this is but i mean this is the type of scene that's had this is the stuff that's happened over the last 10 years there's been literal physical brawls between these women and it's a disaster it's a fucking disaster because Luann is mainly because it's with the kids.

She's not nice to the kids. And that's how it works. So allegedly, they're very happy. Luann and Jerry on the surface. They seem happy. Sure. I guess. So Jerry has lunch one day on May 22nd, 1990.

It's a Tuesday afternoon. He has lunch with his wife and his bookkeeper, who's another lady named Deborah, who we'll talk about in a minute they all ate taco salads yeah all right from taco bell by the way they got taco bell taco salads that's it's fine yeah i don't know why they all decide you know what i'm in the mood for taco bell taco salads from taco bell um there's more packaging than food in that too but it's oh it's a giant huge box yeah no it's a giant box they give you a sphere yeah with a and then you open it up open it like a like an lol doll surprise and then there's nothing in it there's nothing well you expect tiny toys to fall out but it doesn't happen a little bit too thick on the crust of those two that that shell

is like yeah it's a bit much of a taco It's a taco salad from there. It's Taco Bell. What are we complaining about the food? It's like 80 cents. What do we want? Yeah, it's a giant thing for 80 cents. I love it. Of course it sucks. I love Taco Bell.

I do too. It's fucking great. It's so good. I'm not saying I'm not going to eat it. No. I'm just saying that you know what you're getting. It's shit and that's what you want. Yeah.

So they all ate taco salads from Taco Bell. And surprisingly enough, Jerry shortly afterwards developed severe abdominal cramps. That'll happen. Accompanied by nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. So, I mean, he got the full... Jerry, sounds like you had Taco Bell for lunch. You got the full spectrum, Jerry.

Doesn't sound like... Sounds like you got what you paid for, sir. Nothing out of the ordinary. That's called an 80-cent dinner. That's what that's called. Or 80- lunch that's that's the trade-off right you got food for 80 cents and the trade-off is it's going to spray out of you in liquid form from one orifice or another so enjoy that without any warning it's just gonna happen yep that's life uh he felt weak and had shortness of breath as well so this is a severe case here around four o'clock and very quick for food poisoning think about that two hours i mean

wow that's a lot to be there and that kind of not just like my stomach doesn't feel good and then a few hours later this happens uh so four o'clock that afternoon he took suppositories yeah and felt better i don't know if he just plugged it up right out of the gate that's your first choice first that's my it's the go-to what do you want some pepto-bismol now stick something up my ass why don't you you got anything that goes up the ass i think i have to lubricate first before i is that possible could i have that maybe uh give me a booty bullet first those are my faves i mean why not i can't wait till i get sick so i can stick some shit in my ass you know i'm just not feeling good i'm not feeling good i'll get the ass my ass things again

he slept all night that night yeah next morning he felt weak but not not so sick that he couldn't do anything so he cooked himself some eggs and toast and ate breakfast and drove out to his horse barn and talked to his friends that were at his horse barn. I don't know if they work for him or what. But he said yesterday I was as sick as a horse, which I didn't know was a term. That sounds like a Texas phrase. That's a Texas phrase. I've heard sick as a dog, obviously, but never sick as a horse.

I feel like they just replace horse with a lot of phrases. Right. You know what I mean? Like just any kind of cliche idiom just put a horse in it like big as a house that's as big as a horse i mean a horse a horse saved as a horse earned i mean you know that's what my daddy always told me horse and tom saves nine that's what i mean you know they just put a horse in front of me in every phrase I feel like. That is awesome. Am I wrong?

Listen, that thing's got some... He said as sick as a horse. He started it. I didn't start this. This isn't... I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I'm just going off of the information I have. He's just thrilled about horses. Everything is about a horse, I feel like. God damn it. I'm as is about a horse, I feel like. God damn it.

I'm as blind as a horse. I'm as blind as a horse. It doesn't even have to be an animal replacing. Just anything. Anything. He's as blind as a goddamn horse. I woke up this morning and I'm just feeling sore as a horse.

Sore as a horse, boy. What? He beat me like a red-headed horse. Red-headed step horse. not even his own horse that's incredible he said i know luann and debbie baker have been sure i've been stealing from me okay uh now i think they're feeding me chef feeding me shit to make me sick oh that's what that's what he says. His friends are like, okay, Jerry. You are crazy as a horse. He's crazier than a horse, boy.

He is horse shit crazy. He's horse shit. That one kicked me hard in a horse, James. Horse shit crazy oh boy so uh yeah they're kind of thinking he's a little he's a little off so i mean the guy he's standing there he goes i mean maybe you had food poisoning where'd you eat he's like he kind of ate taco bell bro like he literally, he literally was like, you ate Taco Bell

and now you're confused why you were sick afterwards? Like, I get, like, you know, whatever, but you had Taco Bell. If you got sick, you go, I fucking shouldn't.

I knew I shouldn't eat Taco Bell. That's what you say when you get sick from Taco Bell. So, Jerry said, I know I was poisoned

from something I ate, but I don't think it was food poisoning. They went to Taco Bell and brought food back and we all ate together and I'm the only one who got sick. I've been sicker than a dog since I ate that salad they gave me. Now he's back to a dog. He knows the same.

He knows it. He just puts a horse in there. Taco Bell's fucked his brain up. I just love Texas, and that's how it is. Now, who the fuck is Debbie? I want to know. We've talked about the bookkeeper. Well, Debbie, we'll talk about her.

Deborah Newworth is how she was born here um she is uh she moved to wichita falls in 1963 she's been in this area since around then she's also a few years younger than uh than him uh as well she's uh she's she's luann's age so her and luann are same age, and they know each other from way back in the day. So that's how she's involved in this whole situation here. Her dad ended up, like I said, moving, getting a – he's the manager of White's Auto Store in Wichita Falls. And sometime in the 70s, Debra meets a guy named Tony Baker. Tony Baker was married at the time that she met him he had been he got married when he was 16 hell yeah to a woman this is the most texas name ever brenda faye walden

yeah you might as well put a horse in there brenda faye horse walden would be the only way to make it more texas yeah brenda faye wow uh they were married when he was 16 and um obviously this didn't end up working out and they ended up uh april 7th 1975 they end up getting a having their divorce uh trial okay so that's april 7th 1975 they have their divorce trial tony and his wife that he married when he was 16 branda fay yeah now Now, Deborah and him are already together, and she's kind of plotting her, you know, he's getting out of that, and I'm going to get into this with her.

Now, that's April 7th, the divorce trial. April 13th, six days later, Deborah's dad begins having chest pains and difficulty breathing. Doctors, you know, are very concerned about this. They bring him to the hospital and, uh, that day he dies, just drops right dead. And, uh, that's that, uh, he, he drops dead when he is shown at the funeral. Everybody comments on how badly swollen his body was.

He's very swollen, bloated very bloated he looks bloated and swollen which is a actually a symptom of something that we'll discuss in a little bit here now janice is deborah's as uh deborah's mom okay now janice is a dispatcher for the wichita falls police department and lived in wichita falls for 14 years before this. After her husband dies, Debra's dad, Janice starts getting sick too all the time. She becomes nauseated. She's weak. She's dizzy.

Not feeling good. So Debra starts telling everybody that her mother has diabetes and that her insulin injections make her nauseous and weak. Thing is though, she doesn't have diabetes. Not at all diabetes not at all not at all she's never taken insulin never taken insulin she goes to the doctor she's not a diabetic what is debbie talking about she's just telling everybody that okay she ends up pretty much taking

over the household for her mom because her mom's always sick yeah mom's always incapacitated and uh yeah that's that that keeps going here now october 3 3rd, 1975, Brenda Fay and Tony officially divorce and everything like that. By the way, I have some of the divorce settlement things here for a white trash 1975 divorce. This is fantastic. Brenda was awarded. She's the winner here, the big winner. She's awarded a 1972 Buick Riviera and a zenith tv stereo combination that's the showcase showdown that's it right there the 72 riviera and the zenith tv stereo combination

she's the winner and tony gets his car and a tape player okay which is definitely not the same as i mean come on it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime,

part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one

and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the W wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining wondery plus so debbie marries tony baker a month later yeah after he's divorced so uh this is about seven months after her dad dies very shortly after dad died yeah it's not very long at all uh august 25th the next year

deborah gives birth to a son so they got real busy right away in the first couple of months they were getting impregnated um they have a son charles wayne lee baker which sounds like a guy who shoots people from a clock tower doesn't it if you said charlie you ever heard of charles wayne lee baker you go didn't he shoot a bunch of people wayne lee yeah she gave him two middle names of like the most vicious serial killers on earth charles wayne lee baker yeah he's the guy what do you kill like 18 people i think right yeah he had a he's a televangelist that also fingers his secretary oh well i figured he's that anyway it's obvious but then he then he climbed the clock tower because people found out that's how it worked i think i take all his shit everybody knows i figured my secretary now i'm

in trouble she was asking for literally she said please fanger me and i was begging like a horse all right she just begged me like a horse she wanted it that's all right though because i was like man she's as sexy as a horse boy she is a horsey kind of woman i was hard as a horse, boy. She is a horsey kind of woman. How's hard as a horse? She's hard as a horse, boy. Oh, boy. So, yeah, they get married there. They have a son and all this sort of shit.

November 26, 1977 is the morning after Thanksgiving. Janice, Debra's mom, becomes very ill and collapses so deborah calls an ambulance uh at 8 54 a.m she janice arrives at the hospital dead on arrival oh no collapse died dead done it's over died dead done there you go it's all over so uh two days later her body is transported to the funeral home and she's buried next to her husband. And everybody was very surprised that she just dropped dead. She didn't have like a heart condition or anything like that. And, you know, just a weird thing. It was, oh, my God, very strange.

Deborah also tells people multiple reasons of her mom's death. How come your mom died? Oh, she had a stroke okay and then she'll tell somebody else oh diabetes finally got her yeah that diabetes finally finally wore her down and she couldn't do it anymore so that's it's everybody is very suspicious of like well that's weird yeah it's just a strange thing so it's kind of just sad though everyone's like oh it's so sad she just died just and it's even sadder the daughter just doesn't doesn't give the right reason no she doesn't seem to know so many stories about how the woman died but what she does get deborah definitely is her and her husband tony there inherit

everything they inherit the estate they inherit the life insurance policy everything so he's she's the sole beneficiary of all of her mom's shit so her and tony now can live a normal life here and not have to really never worry the work is hard here so uh now debbie over which is a horse it's richer than a horse boy debbie gets arrested here in in the 80s a couple of times she gets arrested for delivery of a controlled substance which is 10 years probation she gets yeah in 1985 oh early 85 and then 1987 uh what i found and i i think it's her it's the same name and everything like that from what i found the ages matched up uh she also in 1987 it looks like possibly was charged with organized crime which is usually a drug thing yeah they do that and it's like some lady

in texas it's usually not she didn't have like you know a mafia hit squad probably controlled substance so that could be anything in texas that's the thing yeah that could be thought or some horse sperm you know how it is free thought horse sperm anything uh the case ends up being dismissed the organized crime case though there so who knows now in the early 80s deborah ran into luann again then they hadn't seen each other in a while and they knew each other from back in the day and she deborah finds out luann's married to like some rich guy who owns a plumbing company lives on a big ranch she's like jesus christ let's be friends this is awesome yeah so they do they're they start hanging out and they're inseparable after this luanne is uh i'm sorry

deborah's unemployed tells luanne she really needs a job and luanne says well shit i know my husband's looking for a bookkeeper for the plumbing business perfect we're gonna plug you right in thick as horse thieves thick as horses so luanne told her husband that an old friend of hers is a bookkeeper needs a job jerry brings her on perfect so the years go by through the 80s and deborah and luanne become close friends they're inseparable to the point where jerry accuses them of fucking each other jerry's like secure fuck you too fucking i mean he spent a lot of time with that lady you you clam like you're fucking her ain't you you horse licking are you horse licking that's a thing

you've heard of a fucking horse lick that's incredible you horse munching with her That's incredible. You horse munching with her? Gross. I heard y'all was rug horsing and I'm not. Y'all been doing that rough horsing? Yeah. Oh, boy.

They call horse play something different. y'all horsing around horsing around i don't like the sound of that how insecure the man automatically automatically right there i mean they must be fangirling each other they're hanging out all the time more interested in her than me i don't hang out with the people unless i want to fuck them i think that's where he's coming from literally it says so much more about him i don't hang out with guys right fuck them jesus christ shit i don't know what the hell they're doing i say my business i do my business i get the fuck out that's it that's a mating jesus christ so luanne and jerry's marriage kind of is rocky about this whole thing because of Deb.

A lot of it stems from Deborah. Yeah. Also, she's a shitty bookkeeper. Really? Yeah. So she's a shit bookkeeper and she's he thinks she's, you know, not even go to a job and probably fucking my wife. Yeah.

So, you know, why do I like these two? So they pretty much by 1990, they kind of live separate lives in the same house. Luann sleeps on the couch a lot and all this shit. And the Deborah thing is a constant. It's a constant source of some shit, of arguments, of something, agitation. So May 23, 1990, Jerry's daughter, Becky, from his first marriage with Jeannie there, says that Jerry looks weak and doesn't look right remember this is after the Taco Bell incident

the next day so she calls Becky calls her mom to tell her that Jerry actually had been admitted to the hospital so he's in the hospital she said he looked pale and weak but he told me he felt better after he got

into the hospital so you know we're hoping that he should be okay um so the way they got the way he ended up in the hospital is one of his employees came to the house to check on some plumbing instructions and found him like really not in good shape yeah and just basically picked him up and took him in the car and put him in and took him to the hospital like there wasn't even a thought about it so he's there he's putting intensive care thank god for that a thought about it. So he's there. He's put in intensive care. Thank God for that fucking employee. You know, shit.

Yeah, he's given IV and everything. He needs things. The nurse checks on him every 15 minutes. Luann's in the room with him. They call it acute gastroenteritis or possible food poisoning. They don't know what. He says his abdomen hurts. His rib cage is tender from throwing up as it gets.

You know how that goes. That's the worst part about it. you have like the flu for a couple days your whole ribcage is sore from puking the tenderness is crazy it's the worst part of it you don't realize how many muscles you have that you utilize to do that and that's the only motion i assume that uses those muscles is puking so apparently they lay dormant until i need to puke. And you puke like, oh, guys, fire it up. Let's go. And then they panic for six days after. That's it. Yeah. It's a problem. 12.01 a.m.

Nurse checked on Jerry and said that he's resting comfortably, no nausea or vomiting. During this, Luann and Debbie Baker are in the room with Jerry. Luann is giving him a drink of 7-Up that Debbie had brought to the hospital. Nurse returns at 1.10. Jerry is now violently vomiting fuck she gave him some other suppository again they just stuff everything up your ass as soon as everything something's wrong i guess it hits faster i don't know what well i imagine so you don't throw up the medication i start putting advil up there does it absorb faster through the

sphincter you're putting liquid gels up my ass what's going on here is that what i'm doing now i don't know give it a run man my knuckles hurt i'm putting shit in my ass yeah i'm trying you should you might as well it seems like the answer it's the first thing they go for the ass immediately i never want to get sick that's why guys do that that's why guys will wait until we're on our deathbed. Because they're just going to stuff shit in my ass. Put something up my ass. I'm not into this. So she does this.

The doctor, she calls the doctor, tells him that he's got kidney failure, dropping blood pressure, vomiting. He woke up at 5.50 a.m. and was okay after that. May 24th, Deborah and Luann are again visiting Jerry in the hospital the next day. Debbie, they're all there. Jerry says he didn't trust Debbie and didn't want to take anything from her, but trusts his wife here, trusts Luann. So he took the Coca-Cola that Luann brought him, and he drank some of it. And, you know, he's he's fine with that. Eight thirty a.m.

They go to the room. The nurse does and he's vomiting and his blood pressure dropped again. Two hours later, he passed. I mean, this is too much. I don't know. This is a lot of information. I'm not going to tell you that there it's so detailed in this this one part of this book where she literally tells you how many CC's of diarrhea he had.

And I'm like, I really don't need to know this to the cc you know what i mean he was sick and you know got it went to the bathroom i get it the cc's are really a lot would fell out of his ass i get it that's why you want to know how much not really you want an exact measurement as a matter of fact an exact measurement like we would do with medication would you like that holy shit when a doctor says get him this many cc yeah of diarrhea right take this out of him jesus christ so uh 10 o'clock they visit him again luann and debbie they're alone with him in the room they stay for two hours their nurse comes back about one o'clock in the morning finds jerry throwing up again damn it keeps getting medication whatever so that goes on all night he's in stable condition by the end of

the night a few days later though um genie the ex-wife gets a call for becky uh saying that she called the hospital talked to her dad and luann wouldn't put her through and you know complaining about luann not letting her talk to the father. And she's trying to check on her. So, I mean, it's, you know, a lot of complaining. June 1st, 1990. Jerry is sleeping. Luann is there and informed the nurse that Jerry was urinating frequently.

So I don't know what the sign for that is. Jerry woke up and said he felt better. Used the bathroom, took a shower, watched TV, read the paper. He seemed better better his blood pressure was right his breathing was nice uh everything was good constitution of a horse of a goddamn horse healthy as a cow he his wife remained uh with him in the hospital room and uh everything was fine so june 2nd they discharged him from the hospital. He goes home. Okay, so now he's back at the ranch. Right. Next couple days later, his son, Sandy, comes home to the ranch to see him.

And he walks in the bedroom to find his dad sick in bed again. Very sick. To the point he's too weak to sip something himself. Luann is there with Debbie Baker and Luann is spoon feeding him liquid at this point. So he said, what are you giving him? And she said, we're trying to get your dad to sip some cran apple juice. The doctor says he needs liquids. He's too weak to drink from a glass. This is June 3rd, by the way, cran apple juice. Keep that in your mind. So we put some juice in a tablespoon. He's taking small sips, but he's getting some liquid so uh yeah anyway uh genie calls talks to him at this point they have an argument of course

um he says i'm drinking cran apple juice and she's like well who's debbie and he said none of your fucking business and they went back and forth so june 4th 1990 uh sandy's there again the son and uh checks on his dad and his dad's really sick uh not looking good he's having difficulty breathing his face and body are badly swollen he's not looking good jerry so sandy says i am taking him to the hospital luann says you're not taking him to the hospital he's fine jerry quote jerry don't need to be in the hospital oh boy that's what she said so um yeah he said oh yes we are if i have to get the neighbors to help me carry him to the car he's going in the hospital oh boy that's what she said so um yeah he said oh yes we are if i have to get the neighbors to help me carry him to the car he's going to the hospital yeah so there's that

uh i guess luann tried to block him from going into the bedroom to see him and he said i told you uh you know they go back and forth turns out he goes back to the hospital sandy gets his way here i don't know if he just calls an ambulance yeah i mean that's what i would do just well i'm just calling an ambulance i'll have medical professionals have a look and we'll get their fucking opinion i'll say he's in there and they'll have to go look at him and then there you go it's yeah he's he's swollen and not breathing well he's going to the hospital so he's back in the emergency room that night uh he's not doing well he's got an iv going on rapid pulse uh nausea diarrhea vomiting all sorts of shit going on here.

He's treated in the intensive care unit and all that shit. Now, 8 a.m., Luann and Debbie come back to visit him. They check on him here. They talk to Luann, and they get all the medication orders. Around 10 a.m., Luann gives him some soda that she brought to the hospital. He drank most of the 7-Up. She and Debbie left the hospital. He drank most of the seven up. She and Debbie left the hospital. About 45 minutes later, he has a seizure.

Seizure-like episode. His hands and feet flail up in the air. He's, yeah, 30 seconds long, this is. And then he's vomiting all over the place. So not good. This is bad. 11.20, the hospital tells Luann to get permission to insert a central line for a spinal tap. Oh, God damn it.

By noon, he's hallucinating and seeing objects and visions in the room that aren't there. Well, if there's a side effect, it's fun. I guess so. It's like, well, I mean, this ain't bad. At least I got this. At least it's a party. Yeah. So, yeah, this is getting really, really bad. His wife and his mother now comes there as well.

Jerry is alert, but he doesn't have motor coordination by later on in that night. He can't hold a glass of water without spilling it. He's got a generalized raised rash all over his body. He is. He's got problems. Jerry's mother is saying, saying please get specialists he's got money he'll pay for it just get him fucking fix him basically jesus christ the hell's going on and then jerry's mother also said and why the hell is debbie baker here all the time she's not family

why is she always in the room you know i don't want her here and luann you know didn't answer but it's obvious because it's her friend so uh on June 6th, his blood pressure is still not good. He can't hold any water. He's hallucinating still. He's got confusion, all sorts of problems, sick in the stomach. Not wonderful. June 5th, Sandy calls his mom again, worried about his dad, saying, you know, he said, quote, I thought I was going to have to knock Luanne out just so

I could get daddy to the hospital. She kept standing between the door and me, and he was gasping for air, trying to breathe. I was afraid he was going to die. I went next door and got the neighbors to help me get carry daddy to the car. Luanne kept grabbing my arm, saying, your dad is fine. He don't need to go to the hospital. He's doing

just fine where he is. He said, the doctors can't do anything for Jerry anyway. That's what she kept saying. Good Lord. So he said, I told her I was taking daddy to the hospital, and I'm taking him there. Yeah. And that's that. That's my daddy.

Is that a Texas thing or a southern thing? Oh, yeah. Grown men calling their father daddy? It's a little bizarre. It's okay. It's a bit much. It's a regional thing, though, right? Okay. It okay it's not a yeah and i don't know many people well you know what it's just like people up north do it too though i've never heard it really never i've not where i'm from i've heard from people in minnesota i've heard it from people in like

fucking michigan and wisconsin midwest and south that's what it is like i've never heard the guy go yeah me and my daddy we went over to get a fucking thing never i've never once i've never heard that my daddy we're going fishing i never heard it once you know like black guy being like yeah me and my daddy it just never happened no never never i never heard it i don't know maybe that's me puerto rican dudes never said that i never heard it back home maybe it's just a regional thing mexican guys don't say it either no they don't yeah there you go so uh june 6 jerry tells the nurse he's leaving the fucking hospital he's done he doesn't care if he's sick or not he's getting out of here uh basically he says i'm going to dallas where i can get some good doctors and you people suck i'm getting out of this hospital this is after he's been like uh

hallucinating and shit too so they end up strapping him down what they strap him down he's screaming and yelling saying he's you know he needs to get out of here they give him haldol to try to calm him down lord that doesn't work he's still losing his shit and uh he's screaming you're helping them kill me you're helping them kill me. You're helping them kill me. He thinks everybody's after him. He's got a lot of paranoia. The security team has to come in and overpower him. Finally, Jeannie, his ex-wife, calls a police officer friend of his from there that he respects and talks to all the time and says, maybe you can calm him down.

Go over and just talk to him, hang out with him. So he does. He goes over, hey, Jer, how's it going? And he said, I'm sick. They've been doing all kinds of tests on me. And he said, you got to get me out of here. They're trying to kill me. I'm going to die.

Oh, no. Then he says, I've got $35,000 missing is what he comes out with. He goes, they took it. Those two women took it. They're trying to kill me. They fed me shit. Luann and Debbie, they're trying to kill me. You got to help me. Get me out of here.

You got to help me. Cut me loose. Cut these straps straps off so this guy's like jerry's fucking tripping yeah but you also gotta look at uh the part where you know jerry if you didn't live like such a psychopathic asshole sometimes maybe we'd take more shit seriously that's well they're just i mean the nurse said he's hallucinating when he went so i mean anything he says no one's taking it seriously right now he just said he threw up a rainbow. Yeah. It was beautiful. It was beautiful.

It was amazing. It was so nice. So many colors. I felt so much better looking at it. I felt sick beforehand, but now I'm good. Right. Now I'm good. Now I'm healthy as a cat.

But that's what happens when you run around the fucking town carrying rifles and shit scaring your ex yeah it's it's you live like a lunatic nobody takes you seriously it's true well this guy he keeps saying i've got 35 000 missing and now the guy's like are you sure about that he's like yeah and he said well what happened to it and he goes they took it he said to pointing toward the door like luann and debbie is what he said he said cut me, what happened to it? And he goes, they took it. He said, pointing toward the door like Luann and Debbie is what he said. He said, cut me loose. Get me out of here. And he's like, listen, I can't cut you loose. You know, you're crazy right now.

So I guess that, by the way, they've been telling the hospital that Debbie was his sister the whole time. Debbie and Luann were doing that? Yeah, because in a nurse's report, it says wife and sister Luann and Debbie Baker. So, yeah, they're at his bedside. He's extremely confused with delusions of persecutions. They write this whole report on him. So he's still sick the next day. They said a respiratory distress progressed to respiratory arrest.

He's intubated. And this is all really fucking crazy. Willa Price, wife of guarded prognosis at this point like they're like it's it's ridiculous so this is getting really really bad and scary dead serious dead serious uh june 12th 1990 my birthday it is that's my birthday so i was a kid and i remember this birthday i got a bike for this birthday, which was awesome. I had a great birthday. Unfortunately for Jerry, his is less good on June 12th because he dies. Oh, no.

So Jerry was dying while I was thrilled to have a GT Performer. Your bike killed him. Dead. Dead. You had a GT? I had a GT Performer. I had two of those because I stole them. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's the most popular bike to steal yeah i wanted it for like i don't know two years yeah you know eventually you get it it was one of those things i stole one and you've been complaining for two years i stole one that got stolen from me i think there was only one in my neighborhood we just kept stealing it from each other back and forth let's go back and forth i never saw one that wasn't chrome it was they were all chrome and had gt written yellow. Mine was white. Really?

I had a white one. There was only one in my neighborhood and it was chrome. I remember the chrome ones. That was cool. I remember the cool one. The chrome ones were the pro performer. Yes, I think you're right. That was more expensive.

I didn't have that one. The pro performer was more expensive. It's a great bike. It was like another $100. I had the performer. It wasn't chrome. It was painted. Yeah, I think it said GT pro on the frame. It did. Yeah, the chrome ones were the best. Sick wasn't chrome. It was painted. Yeah. It was. Yeah. I think it said GT Pro on the frame.

It did. Yeah. The chrome ones were the first. Sick bike, man. I remember that. They were fun. So great. I wanted that one, but I got the other one.

But I was happy with that one and thrilled. And it was much better than dying. Yeah. So I'll take it. Anyways. I know a lot of kids that almost died on them, though. Oh, yeah. I'm sure I took my life in my hands.

Several times. Several times in that bike. I know I i did as a matter of fact we'd be like yeah you can probably jump that if you go down that and go up it'll you'll jump pedal fast how high will you go i don't know give it a chance what's gonna happen when you land yeah i don't know see it'll go up my ass i have no idea i'll lose the bike, land on my head, break my neck. Anything's possible, but I'm going to try it. Let's do it. A little too heavy for a trick bike. Tell you what, get on the pegs while I do it. I think it'll be more fun if you get on the back pegs while we do this.

You can experience flight with me. We'll both injure ourselves horribly. I need someone to go to the emergency room with. Please help me. Let's get matching beds. Let's go. That's what we did. We got to go fast as

a horse though we gotta really really hustle so uh yeah uh basically the death happens and uh genie comes in the ex-wife and she makes a lot of observations that she puts in the book she says quote this is from her book luann acted as if she was overcome with emotion while Debbie stood by the elevator and chewed nervously on her fake fingernails. A short time later, the two women were seen standing in the hospital corridor, talking and laughing as if they had just heard a funny joke. Ew. Yeah.

That's not good when your husband just died. It's a bad look. Even if something's funny, go, dead husband. Eat your fake press-ons? What the fuck? I'd love to laugh at that, but her husband died. Very funny, though, dead husband. Eat your fake press-ons? What the fuck? I'd love to laugh at that, but my husband died. Very funny, though. You understand.

You understand. Funny, though. The only approval of your joke you're going to get is me going, I approve. I approve. That's it. I'm not going to laugh. You're going to solemnly nod like you are at a funeral anyway. My spouse is dead.

Yeah, he's dead. You understand. Yeah, so suddenly Beckyy screamed that's the daughter yeah at this point i'll tell you one thing there's no way daddy would poison himself look at the way she's laughing and carrying on pointing at luann saying she's happy that daddy's dead i think she poisoned daddy it's a ballsy kid she's screaming this at the hospital so i was like whoa i mean she's in her 20s at this point so that's a good point 22 she's not taking any shit so genie calls in the police here oh boy um by the way in her book um and i i mean i guess it's just it is what it is but for some reason it's so funny there's this picture in the book and it

just made me fucking laugh so hard there's a picture of genie and she's just got like the it's a it's not like a picture like uh you, you take like she wasn't like at her house or something. It's a photo shoot. It's clearly like a shot. And she's like looking solemn. And the caption for it says, Jeannie sad after she heard her husband died. And I'm like, wait a second. No, that's a picture of her sad, but not sad because her husband died.

Unless she was like, my husband died. Alert the portrait studio. I need to go take. I need to capture this moment. They happen to get a picture of her that moment. Yeah. Or is this prior to publishing? The photographer said, give me sad.

Maybe she's in the middle of a photo shoot when she got the phone call. And they were like, use that. We're going to get some sad ones. I don't know what it was. I don't mean to make fun of it, but it was fucking ridiculous. You say dead it's a good thing i'm at olin mills right now yeah you're gonna fire that up let's do it jesus christ oh my god so she uh she at this point genie uh is in new york she says so she's trying to call she calls the police down there you know to say that jerry was murdered so this is the ex-wife is

calling from across the country to say that a thing that happened there is murder even though i'm not there yeah so the cops as you can imagine aren't taking this that seriously um she says i'm calling to report a murder so they think i just saw somebody get murdered they go shit you know who's murdered and she said yeah a man died at the hospital. He was poisoned to death. Look into that. And immediately he goes, all right, calm down. What are you talking about here? Sounds crazy to me.

So he goes through, gets everybody's name. And he's like, so who are you to this? How are you involved in this? And she goes, well, I'm the ex-wife. And he's like, oh, yeah, this is perfect. Have a nice day, ma'am. and he's like oh yeah this is sure perfect have a nice day ma'am then he's like where are you calling from long island so you're the ex-wife and you're not even here yeah i don't have to live with you i don't have to deal with you and you're a yankee yeah off my phone fuck out of here come on well come on down we'd love to give you a speeding

ticket we'd love to give you a speeding ticket come on down and hurry my my deputies are at the border they're waiting on you you'll be the one with the new york plates so um he said uh um basically like you know it's not up to me whether he not up to you whether anything happens it's up to his wife and up to the police and how they you know how an autopsy comes out and he said uh she said he was my ex husband our children were at the hospital when he died they're over there now and he's like well you know we'll look into it yeah that's pretty much it now at the funeral um by the way this is a sad looking funeral just it's like a tent in the middle of a field it's just a barren texas field it looks now probably the way he wanted to go down but uh either way they uh go

there now uh genie has some uh some commentary on the behavior of of the of luann here's play by play of the fucking funeral yes and she also takes a picture next to the casket where she's leaning on it and she looks the happiest i've ever seen in person she is posing like people do with a new car like put it with her hand on the hood like oh my god i did it and like but it's a it's her dead husband's casket dead ex-husband's casket it's really weird shot to put in the book right like of her like this is me happy next to the casket it's really strange the price is right model it really was like she was showing it off yeah what do you think here 1200 bucks i don't know so she says quote jerry's widow was attired in a wrinkled gray blue dress she appeared happy and content as she sat in her chair yeah this is amazing didn't even iron it didn't even iron it she uh turned around in her seat and started

talking to debbie who was sitting right behind her luanne's clothing and entire behavior at the gravesite seemed to be very distasteful demeaning and utterly dreadful her clothes i trained my eyes on the cheerful widow uh-huh i watched as she kicked off her scuffed up shoes she's getting like she took her shoes off at the funeral at the funeral i think she was really scuffed up she She really wanted to give it to her. They were shit shoes, too. Yeah. Stretching out her legs in front of her as though she was on a leisurely and enjoyable picnic or an outing. She showed no outward signs of heartbreak or grief.

I soon noticed her hairy legs. What the fuck? I don't need to know about the wrinkles on her dress or the hair on her legs or the scuffs on her shoes. This is really like some personal like some like she's really attacking her yeah she's been waiting to say some some cheap shit for a while and she finally gets the opportunity and it's warranted now so it's good she's like her pettiness is strong it's good though it's good yeah she's throwing a she's got big things she's complaining about but then she's like by the way she's got hairy legs and scuffed up shoes and a wrinkled dress too.

Those white trash with a wrinkly dress, hairy legs and fucking shoes off at a funeral. She seems to really consider this Luann white trash the way she like talks about her too. The way she quotes her is always like, you know, something that's always like, don't instead of, it's always like, like, you know, white trash, more trashes are up. And I don't know, that that's always like, don't instead of, it's always like, like, you know, white trash, more trashes are up. And I don't know,

that could be true. I'm just saying it's, that's definitely points. It certainly seems like somebody that takes her shoes off on an airplane. Oh God. Yeah. Monster. You motherfucking sons of bitches.

How dare you? That is not your house. That's, you're a pig. You are a monster. You are horrible. A monster. And the most selfish person on earth

I would like flight attendants to walk through with like a police baton when someone has their feet shoes off and feet up on anything you fucking whack their ankles with that shit put your fucking shoes on you animal

this isn't your god damn living room no one wants to look at you I'll like crack my heels out of them and then push them over to the side you animal gross isn't your goddamn living room no one wants to look at you i sit there i like crack my heels out of them and then push them over to the side like you know what i mean not not just to give my feet my toes a little room to move but not but i will never take the shoe all the way off that's gross awful some people it's the first thing they do yeah so she said quote uh where is this here it seemed like Luann did not care much for her husband. I tried.

I tired of looking at the merry widow and glanced around the cemetery. And then she talks about the fact that the police were there and they were kind of look like they were keeping an eye on the widow and all that sort of shit. So the sheriff walks over afterwards. Sheriff Bogart, who, by the way, used to be a cowboy. Yeah, he like a cowboy, like the picture of him that you could first, first picture that comes up when you Google search him is a black and white of him roping a calf from a horse. It's the first thing you find.

So he's known as the cowboy sheriff. Yeah. He says that was quite a spectacle the widow put on. I can't believe that woman was sitting in a funeral car laughing. A person would think that the woman could at least act like she was in mourning. After all, she was burying her husband. I noticed your kids were crying their eyes out. If I wasn't sure before, I'm sure now that she poisoned him to death.

I'm also fairly sure she had help killing him. And by God, I'm going to prove it. I'm going to give it, prove it horse style. I'm going to give it to him. I'm a hog tie this one. Jeannie says, well, the first person I'd point the finger at who helped her would be the bookkeeper right away. If the autopsy confirms my suspicions here, then, you know, blah, blah, blah. Basically, they think it's arsenic.

That's what the cop says, because he was bloated and has all the signs of arsenics. And it's just waiting on the just waiting on the autopsy. Police rule it a homicide. Really autopsy police rule it a homicide really uh they do rule it a homicide um so they said quote we've ruled it a homicide but we're waiting on the autopsy results to make it official and then you know whatever so uh they bring him in they they you know open it up and uh they find out that he had very very very, very high levels of arsenic, like an insane level of arsenic in his system. Definitely enough to kill him a couple times over. Yeah.

Took a lot to kill him then. Yeah. Well, it's like he's been kind of for like two weeks. He's been getting it like constantly. So it's a little bit crazy here. They also bring in a guy named Texas Ranger Bill Gerth, who I remember he had a lot of fun with at the live show because he's a big fat guy named Bill Girth, which is great. Billy Girth, which goes real easy to belly girth. And his picture was him like with it leaning on a table.

So his belly was like on the table, like in displaying it like it it was like, like a buffet, a big fat fuck named Gert. You can't do that. Billy Gert. That guy should, he should be working out every day just to not have that last name. So please talk to Luann. When they talked to her, she said she had no idea how arsenic could have entered her husband's body i have no idea what you're talking about he doesn't have any enemies i don't get it at all

so um genie on the other hand they call her and they go look we got to talk to you we think your son killed your ex-husband what we think it was sandy yeah yeah we think so um said uh you know willing to punch a woman in the face probably murders a lot of fingers pointing toward your son luann and debbie are saying that he hated his dad and he wanted him dead and some others are saying sandy was the one who had the motive and the opportunity and right now he's the prime suspect jesus so uh she said i can tell you that sandy didn't have anything to do with it they the sheriff said well he's got a lawyer and he won't talk to us so that's kind of suspicious and uh it's a good point that's a good point but at the same time they're like we think you killed

your dad and he's like oh hey now um i don't think so let me get a lawyer yeah if you have any money and someone thinks you killed anybody you get a fucking lawyer because otherwise that's not going to be good for you so she tells the sheriff that debbie and tony baker were hanging around the cemetery after everyone left after the funeral and blah, blah, blah. I took pictures of it. So he gets the pictures. Also, they're very mad because Tony Baker was driving his prize. Jerry's prize Lincoln Continental.

Really? Apparently, he had a very, very fancy Lincoln Lincoln Continental. That was his like baby that no one was allowed to touch. And to the funeral, Debbie and tony baker drove there in it and that yeah so that's everyone's like well that's not normal he looks bad he would have never let that guy go near his goddamn car so uh other leads though they said they've learned that diet pills didn't have anything to do with it because he's uh genie said he took diet pills maybe is that possible uh they said so that's not the way

that that happened uh they found out um you know a lot of shit they were talking to uh uh another guy who uh works with a co-worker one of his employees jerry's employees who's kind of like the number one guy there who's going to run run the business when jerry's away and uh he said that jerry was a hard man to work for but he wasn't a liar and he was you know he was fine um he the guy told on him saying debbie or the guy told on debbie baker though saying that debbie was stealing through from jerry through accounts payable to get money for herself when debbie became aware that this guy found out about it she started telling Jerry lies about this

guy to try to get him fired oh my god so he said that he was uh you know her lies caused a lot of friction so this guy ended up quitting his job because all because of this lady because of Debbie he said that Debbie and Luann were very close they ate together watch tv together did everything together they were like a couple basically. He said when Jerry got sick, he was very bloated and didn't know it was wrong. Jerry said the doctors weren't doing anything for him and couldn't give him any relief. And basically, he was saying that the doctors were quacks and he was going all off on that shit. So based on the fact that they find out that he said he had money missing, they start looking into that further. So a couple months later, December 12th, 1990, his accountant, who knows all this information, is murdered.

Oh, no. His accountant's murdered as well. How did he get murked? He was found dead behind a store. Oh, my. In Wichita Falls falls which is not usually where you find accountants no you know littered in alleys and shit not usually so um yeah and you know what he said to the sheriff the day it happened he says to the ex-wife genie quote

funny thing though andrew coker he's the dead accountant called me yesterday oh so andrew coker had contacted him yesterday saying he had something important to tell him about Jerry Sternadel's accounts and what he had found of where money was going. And then he's dead, murdered the next day, thrown behind a store. So he said that he would be in. Andrew Coker was supposed to be into the sheriff's office at nine o'clock in the morning. And then the guy winds up dead later on that night. Doesn't ever get to it. Uh,

Wichita Falls police say his death was a suicide, but the sheriff said, no, the sheriff didn't buy that at all. He said, no, I interviewed Coker on June 20th, right after he died.

He told me he prepared Jerry's taxes. Oh, right. Yeah. He said he did the books for Jerry in 89 and that there was $32,000 missing and that they had a separate plumbing account with more money in it. And he stated that Debbie Baker was a bad bookkeeper and Coker told him about a big life insurance policy on Jerry as well that the cops didn't know about. So he had all this information. Your accountant knows where the bodies are buried.

They do. So that's who they needed to talk to. And he says, I'm going to talk to you tomorrow. I'll be there at nine and then goes and kills himself behind a store. Doesn't sound right. Doesn't sound right. So they believe that he's murdered, but no one's ever arrested for it. So, yeah, not great.

Now there's one more person in this person in the peripheral craziness here. Thomas Bradley. Thomas Bradley is a young man. He was visiting Jerry's stepdaughter, Holly, who is Luann's second daughter, second child. He was there hanging out on vacation there. That's where I go on vacation. Outside of Wichita Falls. He was there hanging out on vacation there. That's where I go on vacation. Yeah. Outside of Wichita Falls.

He helped himself to some juice, some cran apple juice that was in the fridge and, you know, just got a drink out of this. I'm thirsty. And they said, grab something. After drinking the juice, he became really ill. Really? Really, really, really ill. Yeah. He was 19 years old.

He lived in Boonvilleville missouri but he had come to wichita falls for a job that summer and he drank a glass of juice and uh basically he uh he ended up with shingles from this wow uh yeah uh which was a side effect of arsenic poisoning really uh yeah didn't know where he got it from but he had drank juice at their house cran apple juice by the way uh remember cran apple juices when jerry was getting spoon fed right at that time because this was early june that this happened so uh june of 1990 so june 15th 1990 three days after jerry's dead the sheriff's office receives a phone call from his mother this kid's mother saying that she heard about the investigation of a poisoning concerning the rancher jerry sternadel and she said that her grandson had spent the night over

there and got sick from drinking juice from their refrigerator she told the authorities that her grandson was taken to the hospital where he was treated for a virus luann had come to the clinic while he was there wanted to check on to make sure, make sure he's okay. He's very concerned. Got sick at my house. Oh, God. She came to the clinic for about five minutes and told his grandparents and the mother not to worry about the bill. I'll take care of it. Oh, that was nice. You know, I'm just

a good Samaritan here. So you're responsible. Very responsible. He said that he spent about a month in Wichita Falls working with Jerry Sternadel's stepdaughter, Holly, at Uncle Lynn's Catfish Restaurant. Oh, boy. He testified later on, he will, that there's a party one night in early June at a co-worker's apartment. Holly had allowed him to sleep in her sister's bedroom rather than having him drive all the way home because it was another town.

bedroom rather than having him drive all the way home because it was another town uh he said that he arose the next morning and holly and sandy were cleaning the house in preparation for jerry to come home from the hospital he asked if he could have something to drink and they said help yourself whatever's in there you can get so he went to the fridge got himself a glass of juice he said he took two swallows of the juice he said i felt it burn all the way down my throat and into my stomach that's whiskey sir oh boy this is good some good cran apple right here oh man take another slug oh boy let it bubble feeling good now uh he said i felt it burn all the way down he recalled within 10 to 15 minutes he had a bout of diarrhea and severe vomiting that's fast acting that is fast fucking acting boy wow he suspected food poisoning he said i felt like i was dying

he said he was taken to the clinic and treated for what they thought was a viral infection he felt like shit for two or three days and he returned to his home in missouri where the sheriff's office contacted him and he went through a series of tests based on that, and they proved that he had been poisoned with arsenic at some point. Now, you would think at this point, I mean, this is all pretty, you know, the money missing, this kid is sick. There's a lot going on here. No arrests made for a while here.

A whole year goes by with no arrests made here. 1991 comes around, nothing nothing as a matter of fact uh during this time because jerry had a big life insurance policy luann uh buys stella her daughter her first daughter or no her last daughter and her husband they were struggling to make ends meet and uh so uh luann bought them a big giant house at that point in time 1991 luanne moves with deborah and tony the three of them yeah away to san marcos to start a trucking business together so they're awfully chummy you know what i'm saying like the third wheel with this this is very very

strange very weird thing here finally june 8th 1992 there's a breakthrough in the case so this is two years have gone by with nothing happening if you're the kids that has to drive you fucking crazy that's frustrating like i know what happened yeah you know what happened and nothing's happening. So this is Jeannie getting a call from the sheriff in 1992 in June. He said, Jeannie, for two years, you've been telling me not to give up on finding the arsenic. I kept telling you Debbie and Luann threw the poison away. Well, I've got some really good news. He said, we think we found something here. They said that they got a phone call from a storage warehouse in wichita falls

the manager said he was unable to locate the person who rented a storage locker and the rent was long overdue so he decided to open the locker and sell the contents obviously yeah he uh confiscating and selling the contents was normal uh so the manager opened up the locker and saw jerry sternadel's name on shit, on documents and things. He knew Sternadel was a man who they thought was murdered and there's an investigation. He saw the story on TV and in the newspaper. So the manager said he called the warehouse lawyer, who then called the police department to say, let's check it out. So the cops go over there and uh they went

to the warehouse they start looking around and inside the storage unit they find a bottle of arsenic oh no a bottle of fucking arsenic in the store crowley's rat and mouse poison holy shit uh yeah they said it's locked up and everything like that um they didn't throw it out uh he said well uh you know he does all this shit he looks at the label cowley's mat rat and mouse poison batch number 9987 uh arsenic trioxide 1.5 percent total arsenic as elemental all in water soluble from 1.14 percent so seems like a lot still fucking arsenic is what it is it's poison right uh so they found the bottle in the in the locker there uh they didn't you know they got it right away

they contacted the warehouse manager and they looked at the rental agreement who's who rented this the name on it was kathy simmons that doesn't ring any bells that doesn't help but the address listed for kathy simmons was debbie and and Tony Baker's address in Holiday, Texas. The locker was originally rented in February 21st, 1990. So that is four months before all this shit. And the rent was paid up that time, paid up for two years. They paid it two years in advance. And then they forgot to pay the rent when it came due on February 21st.

years in advance and then they forgot to pay the rent when it came due on february 21st so there he said there was boxes on top of boxes of records and canceled checks in there too wow all the financial records were in there yeah so they said they were poking around they found a plastic bag half full of correspondence mailed to jerry sternadel uh on june 12th 1990 the day he died and that's where they found the bottle of arsenic. It was right there, right with dated things to the day he died. I mean, it couldn't be any. Right up to the end. Couldn't be any.

He won't need these letters, and we don't need this arsenic no more. Put it in the storage. There you go. It held an 8-ounce bottle. Originally, it had about 6 inches of white liquid, but there was only about 1 inch of the liquid remaining inside the bottle. So, yeah, they listed it as evidence. They sent it off for fingerprints and everything like that.

They said while they're there, this is the crazy part. While they're at the storage unit for about 30 minutes, they just found the rat poison. The phone there rings and the manager says, quote, Sorry, lady, it's too late. The police are here now. That's what the manager says on the phone the phone there rings and the manager says quote sorry lady it's too late the police are here now that's what the manager says on the phone so they asked the manager he said quote it was the woman who rented the locker she said she was out of town she wanted to take care of the past due and rent it for another year uh she sounded desperate she said let me rush you a cashier's check so kathy sim Simmons just called every cat's Kathy. Also, during this investigation, because now they go even deeper, they find three syringes in the plumbing office as well.

Oh, no. One containing arsenic. So not great. The one containing the arsenic was discovered behind the bread behind the butter door of the refrigerator. Second most dangerous thing in that door exactly so may 14th 1993 yeah almost three years after the murder deborah's finally arrested oh my finally deborah's arrested just deborah what just deborah because that's who's the storage locker was connected to it's the only evidence we've got on?

That's it. So that's the only solid evidence to connect them to anything. Leading to a name, yeah. But at this point, they're thinking maybe we can get Debra to flip on Luann, obviously, with a murder charge hanging over her. Yeah. But she doesn't say shit about shit. She clams up like a fucking mafia soldier.

Like a horse. She's like John Gotti. Yeah. Yeah. Like a, like, she's quiet as a horse quieter than a church horse let me tell you so tighter than a church horse tighter than a church horse uh the sheriff said i don't believe deborah baker acted alone this is what he tells the press too. We believe there's at least one more person involved in the murder.

And he said there could be other indictments here. So they have a pretrial hearing. The bond was originally, first it's lowered to $150,000. And she couldn't make bail. Then the bond was lowered to $50,000. And Luann came and bailed her out. Oh, God damn it. Luann bailed her out.

Boy, that's fucking, that's wild. You have to think her husband had to know, right? You know? You don't benefit with a Lincoln or a new house or a business. Come on. And not have some questions for your wife? Nothing. Debbie wants to be, Debbie waits here.

She's going to be tried for murder. But before they can do that, they have to handle another problem because she's got another charge against her also uh that is for bad checks that she wrote she signed uh she wrote on it was basically embezzlement it was uh she wrote uh uh two bad checks in 1992 totaling 3200 made out to red bird express a business a business run by her husband uh tony there and luanne sternadel they own that's the trucking business two bad checks to the business to the business from something else that was a bad deal so she agrees to 10 years deferred adjudication and return for guilty plea so basically don't do anything else wrong and don't worry about it okay

that's how this works here around the checks around the checks yeah don't do any of that shit so the murder trial starts okay and uh oh boy this is a this is a trip man i mean the the ex-wife is there the kids are there you got uh one person who doesn't show up who's that luann what to her friend's trial her friend and her husband's fucking killer's murder trial and her friend doesn't show up i guess how do you play it yeah i bailed out the murderer the accused murderer so i mean uh they have expert testimony here because this is gonna you're gonna need experts here people don't know shit about arsenic uh now by the way do we remember that her father died with swollen body and all that also that's right there's a lot going on the mother dies suddenly mysterious illness this is a thing that she does i feel like here uh he testifies this is dr thomas kurt that

the three quarters amount of arsenic poison missing from the bottle would have been enough to make up three lethal doses okay basically uh they said the first dose of poison probably came in a taco salad to jerry so then they said you know they were asking him like how would you do that so this is what this guy says on the stand and i don't know if this is good or not but he said it's hilarious he says and this is quote in the court documents quote if i were gonna kill someone oh boy don't do that sir and this is this is an idea he's giving people i'd mix the arsenic with about an ounce of picante sauce, and I'd pour it on. He said, this is wild.

He said the hot sauce would disguise the unpleasant bitter taste and the other ingredients in the rat poison. And so that would work. He said cranberry juice has the same effect because it's very strong tasting, and it's bitter anyway. So you take a bitter medicine. He's like, like unfortunately my wife's allergic to picante i mean yeah she hates mexican food i don't know what to tell you so uh she says that he says that uh they do that in hospitals to get bitter tasting medicine down so they show in court they bring out the the goddamn bottle they plunk it down it's funny

too they have like a bottle of uh cran apple juice next to it it's like poison and cranberry juice like next to each other uh luann's lawyer calls a witness to show that jerry had a volatile nature and that people there was plenty of people who wanted him dead okay they call up like his business partner and that sort of shit his business partner jerry wood said, he was aggressive. He was a womanizer, which goes unquestioned here. Said that Jerry cheated people on business deals and beat his son. Jesus, man.

It gets worse. It gets worse. I thought we were friends. Thanks. What the fuck, Jerry? Thanks, bud. He said Jerry Sternadel had an affair with his stepdaughter what uh yeah that's when my wife and i broke off our personal relationship with jerry and

luanne sternadel that's what she says oh not a stepdaughter not an affair age we'll put it that way uh one witness also uh here that they brought up was the stepdaughter stella they bring her up um she when she was 17 years old she left the house there and dean where she lived with them and uh basically they said why'd you do that so she didn't want to answer they go back and forth and uh finally they said was it because of the actions of your stepfather she said yes and they said was it because he sexually molested you and she said yes there fine fucking thanks for making me say that in front of a courtroom full of people jesus fuck man it's heavy so deborah started screaming at this point started yelling and screaming and causing a huge scene like she's

like i don't want anybody to hear that like i don't know what the fuck was going on here so they had to like chill out and have a recess and everything then they bring in thomas bradley the guy who drank the cranberry juice and he told us he told about all that kind of shit he said there was a party in june and all that and you know he gives the whole story of i drank the thing in the morning. I didn't feel good. It burned. Shit's all over the place. I don't know the exact number of CCs, but I shit myself a lot. It was a lot of shit. Debra tried to give me an enema.

Yeah, and she was sticking something up my ass. She said it'd make me feel better. So deliberations come out. They go in here, and they come back. We, the jury, find Debra Lynn Baker guilty of. Now, there's many options here what they can do. First degree murder. Wow. So they bought it.

I mean, they bought the whole thing. She's a murderess. They bit off the whole horse on that one. Bit off as much as that horse could chew. That's what I mean. As they announce this, Debra begins letting out high-pitched screams and wails and shit they had to like drag her out of the courtroom because she started losing her mind um so sentencing comes around here um this is interesting he the they're asking for very

different things the prosecutor is saying that you know it's his first degree murder it's cold-blooded it was in the furtherance to cover up embezzlement like this is a 20 years to life type of situation 20 to 30 years something in that neighborhood now the defense though has a different approach to it they said that because the defendant deborah baker's never been before convicted of a violent felony she should be eligible for probation under state law. What? I mean, this isn't her second offense or third offense. She's never been violent before.

I don't understand why we don't just give her another chance. Which is crazy. You just got convicted of first degree murder, which is bad. Right? Still, it's still bad. That's the only one we usually don't give a second chance on like i know multiple people that have gone to prison for duis where no one was hurt this is first degree fucking murder murder this is like on purpose and in further wow that's wild

um that's something that's something crazy so we think she deserves probation we think i mean you know as her attorney i assure you assure you, I assume you do. Yeah, I bet you'd love that, wouldn't you? So now Jeannie in her book says, quote, as the jurors walk back into the courtroom for the sentencing, I instantly noticed three members walking with their heads down. That doesn't look like a good sign. The heads down is means they're guilty in her mind here. The judge asked the jurors you know what it is here they stood up and they said okay you ma'am yeah may fuck off 10 years

10 years okay probation not 10 years probation not 10 years in prison which would be ridiculous for first degree murder murder first degree first degree murder 10 years 10 years in prison would be like jesus talk about getting off right 10 years probation you're out of your fucking mind she's a piece of shit james they're setting the deuce loose they're setting the deuce loose she's lucky as a horse this is unbelievable she had a horseshoe up her ass i would say so she's got a dog shoe up her ass so i and a ten thousand dollar fine big deal should ten years probation unbelievable i don't even know what to say about that this was texas they love killing people i've known people who got like a little bit of like a drugs in there what the fuck was it that was it

the child molestation that made the jury just really hate him they brought up a lot of things of why jerry was a bad guy yeah and so whatever they just beat his character into the ground i guess but either way if she just if she killed him because he's a bad guy and he was doing bad things to her that would be something but she stole from him yeah and then covered it up by killing him that's a totally different scenario here it's fucking crazy so obviously the reaction to the sentence is interesting yeah i mean the district attorney says you know uh quote it was a case that wasn't the strongest on the evidence it was a circumstantial case so we were pleased

that we got the conviction but not so happy with the punishment the jury assessed um yeah he says quote this is a betrayal of the worst kind she pretended to nurse him in the hospital and pretended she was concerned for his welfare as she fed him arsenic in his drink yeah all true yeah this is bad shit this is not a good person um By the way, is Luann ever going to get fucking arrested for this, too? I'd love that. Is she involved in this? Well, they said that she, while a suspect in the case, there wasn't enough evidence against her because the storage unit was rented to Debra. Quote, when we got the outcome in Debra's case that we did in the Baker case, we didn't go forward with any case on the wife because it would have been probably the same or maybe a worse result wow so we just said fuck it community service instead that's i

mean she would have got like a reward they would have given her like some sort of uh key to the city i'm not sure her own i don't know so uh obviously multiple members of the family are awfully pissed off um the debbie says or becky says the daughter of the family are awfully pissed off. Becky says the daughter of the criminal justice system in Texas has failed our family since 1990. She believes Luann was involved in the murder and wants her to be brought to justice. The only justice she was brought to, and this is just living in Texas, she got two speeding tickets in December 1992. That's the only justice i can find um what what i think happened honestly was this is like to me this seems like a mafia situation this is like uh when john gatti killed the guy who uh who uh kidnapped carlo gambino's nephew

he was going to go into jail and uh basically he was told do the time we'll get you they got him a great lawyer do the time and uh when you get out we'll take care of you when you're getting taken care of because you're doing something special for everybody everything's gonna be fine for you i feel like that's what luann is doing here she's like you know hey you go do your time has to be right because otherwise deborah wouldn't she never flipped man that's she's she's a steel trap she really is it's wild i mean she could have um it's crazy man so this case was covered in uh 1995 during this time period right after the trial by a current affair really because genie got them in on it genie called them up to because she wanted the land to get arrested so she was trying to get publicity 2003 comes around okay so this is uh what she got 10 years probation in 1994 right so

she's a year shy of her probation ending here deborah to be scott fucking free yeah to be scott free well in 2003 they find uh a new arrest here another Another arrest. Nothing violent. They found out on April 24th, 1999, in Hayes County, Texas, she knowingly and unlawfully appropriated property, merchandise to the value of $20 or more, but less than $500, from a Tina Wright, the owner of the property. Without effective consent of the owner

and with intent to deprive the owner of said property, she issued a bad check uh bad check that's a lot of words to say she wrote a shit that's what i was getting it almost sounds like theft that's what i was getting at i was like it sounds like she knocked her over the head and took something she wrote a bad check uh this check was for 65.96 oh boy one check 65.96 keep that in mind here so uh the state introduced evidence of a certified copy of the complaint and information by the theft of the check and this whole deal they really they treated this shit like it was another murder trial yeah they were they got uh fingerprint people in on the show literally they had fingerprint uh witnesses they fall a fingerprint expert as a witness he testified that the fingerprint on the deferred adjudication order in the theft of the check case belonged to Baker.

And then Baker testified herself and said that she was the same person who had also had another check charge back then. That was on there. So the state argues that the evidence clearly established that she committed the theft on purpose while she's on probation and so the court revokes her probation suck it and she uh she pleads no no lo contendere instead of guilty uh here that this plea has the same effect as a guilty plea except does not constitute an admission in a civil suit arising from the offense so that wouldn't be the full guilty plea in a civil suit arising from the offense so that wouldn't be the full guilty plea in a civil suit you pretty much just fucked yourself whereas this

is a very specific legal one not a civil one okay so the sentencing comes around and um following the hearing here the trial court finds that that she violated terms a i and n yeah of her probation don't forget about n it's a lot of it's a lot of yeah also yeah they're all the way down there and they say you ma'am may fuck off yeah nine years and 360 days in prison for five days short of 10 years in prison for 65 bucks and a ten thousand dollar fine oh for a 65 check we're to take checks more serious than murder. Suck it. That's fucking amazing.

That was OJ's Heisman right there. That's exactly what that was. They banged her for that on part. They said, we're getting her for every fucking day we can. It's literally minus the five days she was awaiting bail. That's her time spent. That's her time served. So it's 10 years minus five days.

Nine years, 360 days. Suck suck it they keep tracking that shit an appeal she raises a couple of things and like get the fuck out of here they said the court abused its discretion by revoking her probation shut up yeah uh in 2000s and during while she's in prison she was on an episode of snapped obviously yeah because it's you know may as well exploit that exactly uh it's exactly how it feels and some people have said they don't get that from snapped might just be me but i get it feels gross it feels and i don't know if it's because i'm a guy so i'm trying not to be like misogynistic and shit so when i hear things that feel like that like it makes me uncomfortable some of the shit they say they're like her raging sex drive forced her to commit murder so she could

have more penis in her like if they say shit like that like you're like wow good lord what who wrote this did tom likus right i was gonna say what the fuck is going on here who wrote this why are why rush limbaugh and tom likus making tv shows what the hell is sean h here? Who wrote this? Why are Rush Limbaugh and Tom Likas making TV shows? What the hell is Sean Hannity making a TV show for? So about this. Right. A true crime show. So the book here is called Fighting the Devil.

And that's Jeannie Walker. She's the author. That's the ex-wife. She's fighting against Luann. I guess. She's the devil, I suppose. Who knows? Either way.

Whatever. The devil. Come to your own conclusion pick a devil any devil uh so uh Jerry is buried at Crestview Memorial Park in Wichita uh June 20th 2013 Debbie is released from prison and um yep there she is and uh from what I found I haven't found any more arrests for her she's been living pretty quietly and um i mean you could be you could make a case that she's obviously has some other shit that she's yeah i mean there were dude there was some she's a bad person i mean good god

there's gotta be i mean allegedly and all that type of shit there's her mother her father there's other people how long does how long does arsenic take to dissipate in your system after you're dead can they like check your bones and stuff after 20 years yes they should exhume those fucking bodies they can do that um it depends on the level of whatever but they uh in the homicide book they do that they exhume people to because this lady poisoned them and uh they find shit they find poison he put uh she put arsenic in some guy's tuna sandwich and they find found it after many many years yeah it was 10 years later or something i wish they could find it and i wish they would i hate to disturb

somebody's fucking yes obviously especially for 50 years ago yeah but we can put their 45 years child in jail for killing them that'd be great it's pretty fucked up i don't know if we can put their child in jail for killing them, that'd be great. It's pretty fucked up. I don't know if you can do it for 45 years later, but I hope so. That would be something, at least. But anyway, that is Dean, Texas. That's a hell of a case, I've got to say there. That's wild. Wild dogs couldn't drag me away from that case, Jimmy. We really beat that case to death.

We really did. We really did. Beat it like a dead dog yeah so never look a gift dog in the mouth never that's the worst thing you could do if you enjoyed that tell us all about it give us your own horse uh phrases your own horse idioms make it up tell us all about it get on apple podcast that purple icon and tell us how you feel it really does help it helps drive us up the charts we have no idea why but it does so uh give us five stars also head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything you could possibly want crime and sports and small town murder related you should be listening to crime and

sports and uh you can get all your merchandise on there and everything like that you should also listen to PS I hate this movie because I have to watch shit movies so help me out and at least be there for me with me so there's that do all of that get on follow us on social media we're at murder small on Twitter at small town pot on

Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram as well Patreon cooking and it's cooking hard. You betcha. Uh, the last Patreon episode for, uh, crime for small town murder was old West murders,

which were awesome. We go through old West newspapers and I found all these crazy ass murders. I love old cowboys. Oh, there's some nutty shit going on back then. And it really ties into this. So it's perfect. You're allowed to murder.

They didn't care. Yeah, it was, it happened all into this. So it's perfect. You're allowed to murder. They didn't care. Yeah, it was, it happened all the time. So, uh, there's that. And then the next episode is going to be this insanity that happened in Oregon.

Whenever we do like a, like a, just a little murder case for a bonus, just know that that means it's insane. It's so crazy that I'm like, it's not long enough for a regular episode, but it needs to be told. Right.

So that's kind of what it is there. Do all that. The crime and sports episodes. We have, uh, Not long enough for a regular episode, but it needs to be told. Right. So that's kind of what it is there. Do all that. The crime and sports episodes. We have the last one was worst wrestling characters of all time, which was so much fun. And then the next one is going to be on Danny Almonte, that the Little League kid who everyone said, oh, my God, he's amazing. And he pitches like he's 16. And then they're like, holy shit, he's 16 or whatever he was. Yeah.

Too old to play little league so it's just like a like a 35 year old amazing fuck turns out he's playing triple a for the goddamn orioles so check all that out that's patreon.com slash crime and sports anybody over the five dollar level gets all of that the whole back catalog everything like that is on there enjoy all of that and in addition to that you are going to get uh you're a producer so you're going to get a shout out at the end of the show and jimmy will mispronounce your name even though he tries as hard as he can to get it right i'm doing my best so we'll do all that patreon.com slash crime and sports or if you just want to be a good person nice person and a

producer who will also get your name mispronounced, you can do that very easily over at PayPal using our email address, crimeinsportsatgmail.com. And Jimmy, that said, I think it's time, I think it's time to hear the list of my favorite people, people who would never ever give us a taco salad laced with an arsenic picante sauce because they like us so much. Hit me with the names of these wonderful people right now. This week's executive producers are Ben Fairclough, Karen Elgin, Tracy Mitchell, Jordan Bennett,

Liz Vasquez, Mandy Peterson, Devin Groh. These people, they're just so sweet. Unbelievable. Thank you. Vanya Venter, Melissa Turner, Joanne Ahern, Britton Edwards in Atlanta, Josh Denton's wife or girlfriend, Becca. I think it's his wife. Her name is Becca.

She's having a birthday. And he says to pack your bags, you're going on a trip. Oh, congratulations. You won the trip. Did they win the showcase showdown? They did. There's also Gareth Locke. He uh a small town murder group on uh facebook thank you garrett thank you i think it's his i think it's his birthday too no it's not it is

no happy birthday possibly to you if not save it put in your pocket for when it is your birthday it's still a big deal to him uh cassandra thompson and michael foran or foreign i don't know thank you guys truly for everything you do other producers this week are craig ventura sarah pixie de leon sonny sonny johansson brendan ables shannon colorado that's my fucking cousin hey shannon thank you very much she was she's just grateful that everybody uh bought cookies from Lucy. The Girl Scout cookies were a big deal. Thank you, guys.

Just eating truffles from her yesterday. Thank you, Shannon. You're helping send Lucy to New York. Thank you, guys. Yes. Other producers continuing are Thomas Smith, Froggy Fred, Meg Megalovic. Oh. Yeah.

You know her. Eileen Merriman. David Korber. Korber. Charles. Nope. That's Carl Kirshner. I put a fucking umlaut.

How did I do an umlaut? That's not how his name is spelled. I did it last week, too. Corporal. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie.

Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie.

Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie. Cherie Bird. Melissa Allen in L.A. Thank you, Melissa. James Marder, Elizabeth Kezavicia Columbus. Kezavicia.

I'm never going to do this right. Cindy Wilkin, Peyton Meadows, Kent Dorfman, Dustin Martin's wife, Danny, had a birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Maria Kip Soosley. Charles Richardson. Mandy Peterson. Jessica Finch. Troy Moriarty. Ashley Vio.

Zachary Bunea. Jason C. is looking for a pen pal. Shelly Roberts. Parker Bromet. Susie Sunshine. Ethan Moore. Derek Pearson. Randy Lofton.

Brandon. Brendan. Brendan Bauer. God damn it. Tracy Lozada. from the Dark Podcast, William Lee Noel, Corey Espatia, Tommy Howard, Amber Uglow, Aaron Browning, No, you glow, Jimmy. You. I'm doing my best. You glow, damn it. I really am. It's not as amber. Aaron Browning, Stephen Charles, Don Kelly.

It was amber. It was amber. I hope I got it right. Don Kelly, Bella Lagenzi, Susan Judy, Lindsay Datko. I spelled that wrong for sure. And I typed that. Whatever that is, I typed it. No excuses.

Matt Haas. My damn chicken scratch. Oh, fuck. This is Roman Sands, whatever the shit. Steve Jobs and your goddamn script uh ena schooner david cox kristin roberts kurt right at ratima brandon cack what catcher meyer cack cackermire brandon coleman also jazzy danger uh brandon no that's bruce bruce millis no that's mills Bruce Millis.

No, that's Mills. Fucking Bruce Willis ruined my day. Oh, thanks, Bruce Willis. Robert Beauvier, the murder's therapist. Murderer's therapist. Cindy Banks. Janine Welch. Say again?

I said they all need one. It's true. Janine Welch. Tracy with no last name. Sheila Evans. Cheyenne Ogden. Jay Kelly. Robert Cohen.

Aileen D. Mike Maddox. Janice Lynn. Kristen Bra name. Sheila Evans. Cheyenne Ogden. Jay Kelly. Robert Cohen. Aileen D. Mike Maddox. Janice Lynn. Kristen Braul. Madison Gilbert. Erica Simmons. Kate Mailman Allen. What?

Dustin Lewis. Steve Johnston. Lovely Ocean. Steve, what about Wallace Brown? What about Wallace, String? That's what it is. God damn it. What about Wallace, String? Where Wallace what it is. God damn it. What about Wallace, String? Where Wallace at, String?

Where Wallace at? You happy about it, Steve? Bunker the Golf Dog, John Boland, Joan Hutton, Libby's Uncle, Evan Grieg, Courtney Thompson, Jordan Vargas, Jordan, nope, that's Jason Bunting, Angel Bautista. Steve Rau. John Harris. Chrissy Coomber. Nathan Nathaniel. Dalton. Nathan Oli.

Mike Carpenter. Donna Pearson. Zach Holmes. I think it's Zach Holmes. Zach Holmes. Nate Sage. Amy Jueberger. Is that a J?

That's an H. Hughberger. God fucking damn it jimmy how did i how do you do it how do you bobby jewberger over there they make the best jew burgers this side of the mississippi i'll tell you what it did look it couldn't be funnier if I planned it like that is embarrassing. Ryan Booth, Evie Tatum, Kat Simmons, Joseph Williams, Emily Kuber, Ryan Coughlin, Lee Pressman, Christopher Weber, Kyle Dombrowski, Nicholas Collins, Mickey Berrios, Kelly Preston. Probably not. She's dead. Gene and Angie.

Right. Definitely not. Gene and Angie Vandercreek, Tia Imes, Nicole McKinley, Nicole. Nope, that's Kevin Barnum, Caitlin Hawk, Shelby Buscher. And somehow there's an umlaut there. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Umlaut. I don't know. How are you finding the umlaut button jimmy i don't know if you're struggling to find the umlaut i can't help you because i have no fucking idea what i'm doing wrong

or right either way you found it though jimmy that's the important thing i don't know where you found it i don't know what language i don't know what german keyboard you got from austria or some shit but you. I don't know where you found it. I don't know what language. I don't know what German keyboard you got from Austria or some shit, but you have I don't know what the fuck's happening. Light Me at Five. I think that's a podcast. Probably Open Mic podcast. I'm not sure. Zero Tolerance. That might be a podcast also.

I have no fucking idea what these are. Megan Petty. That might be a podcast. Danielle Tebow. Kate with no last name. Timothy Lemon. Sunshine would know last name. Steven Anderson. Matthew Stencil. Touch Stone. William Routledge.

Whitley would know last name. Presley Anderson. Ken McGarry. Dwight Bonner. Brandy Davis. Dominique White. Marie would know last name. Angela Turlock.

Jeffrey Gebler. Brad Gretzinger. Dwayne Hill. Casey Dreyer. Charles Chapman, Diane Dianera, and Evangelio. I'm the most uncultured fuck. Charles Moore with no. Wait, that is the last name. Oh, good.

Porous Bianca shut. Taylor White. Lindy Michelle. Peter Salvador. Tranchita. Jalene. Nope, that's Jolene, Navin, Evan Pascoe, and Unika Jackson, Victoria Berger, Hunter Atkins, Erica Kinder, RJ with no last name, Ken Gostelli, Shannon Callen, Brian Tyler, Candace Tay, Earl Knight,

Amy Beery, Katie with no last name, Jacob Smith, Emily Young beery katie would know last name jacob smith emily youngblut greg would know last name victor sanchez sarah sunshine short william willie williams wow yes beth stag stag uh jenna gorge latoya thomas jessica smith that was pretty easy lindsey witter caleb words shauna pitman, Ashley with no last name, Jennifer Sargent, Taylor Sinclair, Atlantis Talbot, Shiny Bayleaf. Yeah, I know. It's been a minute. Shiny Bayleaf, Derek Eckermann.

Oh, that's brutal. James Fessette, Aaron Esposito, Lizzie Marsh, Rachel with no last name, Alexandra Dolby, Drew Eckermann. What the fuck? Those are brothers. I'm sure of it. And that is hard. I am so sorry for your childhood. Patrick Thacker, Earl Knight, Mackenzie Ide, I think.

Susan Moore, Neil Lane, Gina Meske, Christian Westwood, Stephanie Bruno, Alicia with no last name. Also, Ryan with no last name. Sarah Elizabeth Hornberger, Bobby Porter, Cynthia Brittain, Brittain maybe? Brittain? Ash with no last name. Katie Carey, Thaniel Peterson, Trista Williams, Nancy Klabnick, burger bobby porter cynthia britain britain maybe britain ash with no last name katie carey thaniel peterson trista williams nancy klabnick tommy johns pam with no last name max the

london barrister yeah wig and all what's a barrister what is that it's a lawyer am i stupid okay there you go all right he wears a wig too good. Good for you, Max. I love the wig, Barrister, man. You gave us money, so I'm not calling you a douchebag. Yeah, he's a good man. He's a great person. I don't know douchebags. Ann and Mike Keating. Michael Keating.

Patrick Cook. Aaron Cooper. Virginia with no last name. Chelsea Barker. Renee Geind. Todd Vilcoy. Vilcov. Vilcov.

That's it. Allison Jenkins, Dustin Webb, Connor Crawford, Jay Anderson, Doe Nutmaker. What the fuck? Margaret. Yeah, but it's Doe like, like. Homer? Like, yes. And then Nutmaker.

Is that like. Oh. I don't want to know what that is. Can they jizz and doge? I mean, I'm disturbed by this. That's disgusting. Margaret Bobo Dancy. Dusty with no last name. Emma Butler.

Mark Alexander. Alexandra Johnson. Jack Hough. Anderson Aaron. What? Is that Aaron Anderson? Hey, let me ask you this, though. Do you think it makes it rise fluffier?

Is that what it does? Jesus. If you whip it, it does get fluffier. Is that what it is? Jesus. If you whip it, it does get fluffier. Is it like a meringue then? You know, you hold the bowl upside down over your head and make sure, or what? Oh, I'm so grossed out. It's a jizz meringue, everyone. Lovely.

Try that for Christmas this year year put that on a pie everyone surprise i'm gonna throw a lot this took me a lot of work i have no idea okay the hours just fucking hours. I'm exhausted. Eat this fucking pie. I'm going to bed. I've been slaving over this cock. I mean, stow walk. Both, really.

All right. Anderson Aaron or Aaron Anderson. Toby Ferguson. Rosalynn Ryan. Elizabeth Flanagan. Brian Lund. Nope, that's Glenn, not Ellen. Hillman. Blingo? Bingo, Lingfucker, what, Super Duper Pooper, good for you.

Thomas with no last name, Avery with no last name, James McGoldrick, Blasphemous JP, Brandon Kennedy, Chelsea Boehm Nicholas Montgomery Chris Clark Douglas Coates Amy Wright Clem Vaccaro Georgia with no last name Cronald What? Cronald?

Dankus? I can't That can't be I absolutely fucked that up Lauren Hall That's the last name Hall Carrie Evans

Chris Bartley Corey Cyphers And Ashley Burlage And also all of our patrons you guys are amazing thank you so much thank you so much everybody honestly for everything uh we hope you enjoyed this show on the live show if you saw it then or if you didn't see it then hope you enjoyed it this time and uh this was just a crazy story that needed to be told what a story fucking intense so uh hope you enjoyed that and

hope you're going to keep enjoying it and every week and what if people wanted to enjoy you jimmy how can they find you you won't but you can find me uh at wisman sucks whisman sucks on twitter and instagram it's been an unbelievable ride and i can't thank you guys enough where can they find you james you can find me at jimmy pFunny or just copy and paste my name from the show description and do it that way because it's probably easier. Or you know how to find people on the internet. We don't have to tell them how to find us. You put it in and then it's there.

Instructions are unnecessary. Yeah, unless you're figuring out a laptop and Jimmy doesn't know to use two fingers to scroll. I just learned it. And he uses an arrow like a hundred-year-old man. The arrow doesn't work. I know. Why did you do this, Apple? This thing's a piece of shit.

No, it's not, Jimmy. There's an amazing thing that we just created for you. The two-finger. It's insane how cool it is. It's not new. I know. It's probably 10 years old. Yeah, it's definitely not new.

Oh, it's older than that. I think it's like five years old, that particular model. Cool as fucking thing. And then you swipe the fucking mouse pad james and the window moves oh yeah it's incredible i learned all the tools of my mouth oh god this is hilarious i love this so much we're gonna go and talk more about apple mouse pads and the joy and the wonders of the modern technology of these things my goodness and then after that we're gonna have some metamucil and not off in front of

Matlock on the television. So that says it. That's it, everybody. Until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.