Small Town Murder - #213 - Building A Murder Fence - Fishkill, New York

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

This week, in Fishkill, New York, we look at a murder from James' hometown, where a longtime friendship seemingly falls apart rapidly, leading to one of the worst scenes that we've talked about. Absolute brutality for what seems like very little motive, followed by an attempted cover up that just made it even worse. It's a mess, and we try our best to put the pieces together, but did they end up with the right people on the end? Along the way, we find out that not everyone knows they're at a crossroads, that four day long cocaine parties might be a bad idea, and that some things just don't burn away! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Fishkill, New York, a raging middle of the night house fire eventually reveals that this wasn't just a fire, but an attempt to cover up some of the most heinous acts imaginable.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. And I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We are beyond excited today. We are going to do we are going to do something. Well, you know what? We're going to make fun of a place I lived a long time and where my family has some deep roots and where I went to high school and everything like that. So that way, it's a lot of fun because I don't mind making fun of where I'm from. Do you? No. No, it's great, right?

Jesus, no. No, it's wonderful. That's what we're all about. So now nobody complains anymore. Nobody. Don't say, oh, but you're extra mean. Nope, no, I'm not. Way to listen.

Way to hear this. Buckle up. Before we get into that, real quickly, just want to thank everyone for everything they've done for us this week. Thank you so much for your reviews, especially Apple Podcasts. Don't know why they help, but they do help drive us up the charts. So if you could get on that and give us five stars. Doesn't matter what you say.

That's not important. It's not for our ego. No. It can't fix us. Shit, no. Not with words, anyway. So do that. It helps drive us up the charts. Also, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com for everything crime and sports and small-town murder. If you're not listening to crime and sports, you are missing out.

Give next week your first episode if you haven't. It's going to be Michael Irvin, a guy you've heard of. And it's going to be the Scummy Awards. This year's Scummy Awards. It's going to be the show of the year every year. So definitely get on that check that out also listen to ps i hate this movie where i have to watch twilight uh all 38 installments of twilight so that's yeah and i get tormented so then i get to talk mad shit about them so do all that patreon.com of course uh patreon.com slash crimeandsports, to be exact.

You can get all of your bonus material. Holy, we have so much bonus coming up. Crime and Sports, we have Danny Almonte, who was the Little League kid who was blowing everybody away with his fastball and who nobody could believe

that a youngster could be so amazing. And they were right because he wasn't the age he said he was. And it's a very interesting story. And then on small town murders, we just have an insane rampage in Oregon. It's so nuts that I don't think it's even in a small town, but it's so crazy. It doesn't matter. You have to hear about it.

Yeah. If we do like a murder story on just a one murder story on a bonus episode, that means it's really crazy. And you don't want to miss that. So check all that out. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. All of that. And Jimmy will mispronounce your name brutally, honestly, at the end of the show. Terribly, especially if you're Italian.

It'll be extra awful for you. But he tries his best. So we do appreciate you. Thank you for everything. And you just want to make a donation, have great karma and be a producer and get a shout out and your name butchered. You can do that over at PayPal

using our email address, crimeandsportsatgmail.com. So yeah, that said, it's time for the disclaimer. And then we can get into this. This is a comedy show. Obviously, we're comedians. And so we're going to make jokes.

It's going to happen. And there's going to be murder because it's called Small Town Murder. And it'd be really weird if it was about, like, crafts and roller coasters and shit. It'd be a strange show. Everyone would think it was odd. So there's going to be murder. And we're going to talk about it. We go out of our way not to make jokes or not to try to make fun of the victims or the victims families why would we do that

because we're assholes but we're not scumbags there you go work so that sounds good to you buckle up murders happen and this one as you'll find out is especially kind of a close to home here so uh you know it happens so we're going to try our best, though, to do nice with it and to make right by it, as we always do. If that sounds good to you, excellent. If you don't think that true crime and comedy should ever go together, you might not like the show. You might like it more than you think,

but I don't know if you want to give it a shot. Either way, no complaining later. The rest of you that want to hear a crazy story, I think it's time to sit back and shout, Shut up and give me murder! Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

I would like that. All right. Let's do this. We are going. We were in Texas last week. I'm telling you, boy, I am tired as a horse from coming all the way from Texas. That was just too bad you guys couldn't see us record that. We really wish you were a horse on the wall for that one because it was really.

Listen, I've flown all day. Boy, are my hooves tired. That's what I'm saying, man. That's how it works. So this week, though, we are going to Fishkill, New York here. And I'm going to kind of veer away from the formula to give you some background information here. This Fishkill, New York is where like my dad's side of my family is from.

I've lived there forever. And, you know, I went to high school. I lived here. So I know this place. Fishkill, correct? Yes, exactly. Fishkill. Yeah, it's here we say it kind of.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like Gevigol. All of our cuz become guz. It's a New York thing. So anyway, this Fishkill, New York, it's in southeastern New York. It's about an hour from New York City, pretty much exactly an hour from New York City if you were to drive it.

An hour and a half up to Albany if you went the other direction, and about two hours and 15 minutes to Belterre, New York, which was episode 174 our last new york show party marty yeah marty the party that was a crazy crazy ass episode so i still hope he's doing great i know i think he is he's a lawyer now he's got exonerated on his sports car plates i think he's doing fine so this is in duchess county uh zip code 12524, area code 845. And if you notice this, I don't even have to look at the goddamn thing because this is just information I know. Motto here of this town, crossroads of the American colonies, which I can say as someone who, you know, my grandparents lived here and I would ever grew up around it. Never once heard that.

So I don't know. That's just on the literature, I guess. But no one ever says that. Is it like Interstate 80 or something? I mean, we'll explain it a little bit in the history. Is it like a bridge? No one's ever been at the grocery store and you're like doing stuff and someone goes, excuse me, and they go, what?

Crossroads of the American colonies. What are you going to do? And they like shuffle by. No one's ever done that. Never comes up. It's not on any signs around town or anything. You were never in a friend's car and you guys drove through an intersection. His parents were like, that's it right there.

That's the crossroads. Crossroads of the American colonies. That's what happens when you get in an accident. You just go, that's all right. We're at the crossroads of the American colonies. What do you want? Sometimes you get in accidents. It's a lot of roads.

Was it Fish Kill New York that Bone was singing about it's all possible jimmy or the lesser known town motto that i have heard plenty because i might have invented it quote a good town to smoke weed behind the grocery store i believe i it's a tried and true one that i tested myself and i can tell you it's absolutely true yeah so uh name of this town first of all it's located in the area of the the territory of what was the wappinger people at the time which that's wappingers is the next town over and that's named after them of course uh it was it started in a 1685 good so shit is old in this place. The name, first of all, Fishkill, we should probably talk about.

The Dutch, it means it's fish. Fish is fish. And then kill meant stream or creek. What? Yeah, there's the Fishkill Creek. So all the Catskills, all the kills here, that's because the Dutch named it. That's where their streams or creeks. So it's the Cats River? That's what that is?

Cats Creek? Yeah, there was probably wild cats or some shit around there. That's what they called it. Yeah, that's how it worked. But not everybody realizes that. Or if they do, they're just... In 1996, PETA, who we know well here, they asked the town to change its name. Oh, for fuck's sake. Quote, less suggestive of violence toward fish. who we know well here, they asked the town to change its name to something, quote, less suggestive of violence toward fish.

Oh, boy. Oh, Christ. I get it. You're an animal lover. I love animals. Let's say you're even like a PETA member and you have whatever. That's all fine and dandy.

This is ridiculous. This is pushing it too far, I would say. It means it's ridiculous. Fish are literally food. Not only that, it doesn't mean that. What do you think? This is causing people to jump into the rivers and pull fish out with their bare hands and tear them gill from gill?

What the fuck is happening? No. I don't know. Every time I hear that town name, I want to just go, bare hand to salmon. Right? You just want to stick your bare hand to salmon. Right? You just want to stick your hand to catch it with your hand and just bash them against a rock, don't you? I want to noodle some salmon.

Just, I don't know what it is. That organization's dumb as shit. Yeah, well, in that particular case. It's just dumb. Some of the stuff is good, and then you get that, and you're like, come on. So the town said, thank you because you know that would be stupid right so that was that the in 1714 dutch immigrants settled the area so uh very old uh it was apparently the village of fishkill was a crossroads there's a fucking

word sure yeah in the overland transportation network they say so this connected new york city albany through connecticut to the ocean there to the ports from massachusetts everything kind of runs through here if you look through if you look like on a map you'll see like 84 the thruway the taconic those all kind of followed these paths from back then except for the taconic which roosevelt had built but anyway um the and the h River is here, too. So kind of all that shit goes through the Hudson River. So the New York Provincial Congress convened in Fishkill in May of 1776.

It became. Yeah. Became just before freedom. James. There you go. Fishkill became part of one of the largest colonial military encampments during the Revolutionary War. And George Washington's aide to camp, Alexander Hamilton, who you may have heard of. Sure. If you're a Broadway fan or a history buff, but one of the two, he ended up living here for a long time.

Fishkill is every five feet is one of these like New York State historical markers. is one of these New York State historical markers. Every time Washington took a dump, it is cataloged, and they made a whole elementary school field trip about it. Washington took a... This is where his corniest one was. His corny logs were here, mainly. This one was his most mealy.

This is where his corniest logs fell. This is a more watery residency. Every time, I don't know what it was, but his stools were loose. I think, did you say that's where internment camps were for like the Civil War and such? No, no. This is Revolutionary War military encampments. This is where all the Revolutionary revolutionary American soldiers were stationed. They would put them all here.

So basically, whenever they dig anything up, they pull up not only shitloads of Native American things, artifacts, but tons of cannonballs and shit like that. Anywhere you dig, if you dig in a 10-foot circle, you're going to find something that has to do with the Revolutionary War. I love it. It's the way it is. So the Trinity Church on Hopewell Avenue in the village was organized in 1756 and used as a hospital during the Revolutionary War. Then the Dutch Reformed Church was used as a military prison. So they were like, which one's going to save people and which one's going to hurt people? Let's see.

Which one's going to save people and which one's going to hurt people? Let's see. So, yeah, in 1871, they built a schoolhouse on Church Street, and the schoolhouse belonged to the Fishkill Reformed Church and was used as a pasture land for the pastor's cow. Then in 1876, a fire destroyed all of this shit. And they rebuilt it with brick structures that are still there. Yeah. So, yeah. They were the three little pigs. Yeah. They all let shit burn down. and they rebuilt it with brick structures that are still there. Yeah, because they were the three little pigs.

Yeah, it all let shit burn down. Now, I know this because in the village of Fishkill, right by all of this is my grandfather's barbershop. My grandfather's barbershop is right by where we're talking about. My grandfather, to tell you how deep my roots run here, my grandfather, well, my great-grandfather, his father, they immigrated here, and they came over from Italy in the early 20s. And then my grandfather was born in the mid-20s there. He fought in World War II, came back here, opened a barber shop,

say around 1950, this barber shop down there. He was the town barber. We might as well say it now because we're in a new studio here it's very nice uh because i have to kind of be in two places at once here so i got to be in phoenix sometimes i got to be in new york sometimes so i came back and i kind of i'm back in this area now in the duchess county area for family reasons and it's fucking beautiful yeah talk about all that but uh anyway uh the the house i was looking at the my father went and looked at it for me and the guy who owned it said petra gallo you related to the barber

so i mean even now and he retired in 1989 so it's they run really deep i grew up uh not in fishkill that's where my grandparents live where my dad grew up and i lived there during high school but i grew up in the village of wappingers nearby and if you're from this area out there in podcast uh world you'll know that that is the trashiest shittiest area in the in the area basically so i have no i will make fun of everything because i am from i'm remsen avenue trash. So take that. Exactly. I am, you know, first time I bought weed was on Franklindale Avenue and it was dust and it wasn't weed because my friend's older brother played a trick on me. That's the kind of fucking area I'm from. This place is a trick at all.

We were 13. That's a nice thing for an older brother. I think I'll give my 13 year old brother and his friend dust. Yeah, that's nice. Right. That's a fucked thing for an older brother. I think I'll give my 13-year-old brother and his friend dust. Yeah. That's nice, right? That's a fucked up trick. Yeah. I didn't mind it so much, but my other friend who smoked it had to go in a room and lay down for like five hours.

Oh, I'm sure. I thought he was going to die. I thought it was fun, but that was another story. Anyway, don't do dust, kids. It's bad. But this is the type of area we're talking about. Where were the Yankee and Terminator camps? Weren't they up near that area?

Do you know what I'm talking about? I feel like they were. I admit it's possible. Because your family has a positive reason for being there and a nice historical, like it's all family, not inbred. I just came here. Your roots are there and that's where everybody's set. Like my family is buried there because they died in Yankee internment camps fighting for the wrong side of history.

Well, that's on them. Not around here that I know of. That wasn't on the field trip stop tour, which I think it would have been otherwise. It was all the revolutionary, maybe like upstate like western new york or something here hey all you uh refined italians this is where white trash wisman maynards are buried there's plenty of white trash up here too don't worry there's plenty of everything up here trash of all sorts um like i said so i anyway i grew up in the village so i i know trash is what i'm getting at and if you know that you'll go wow you are yeah you you no wonder why you do a show about trash because you just went outside what the

fuck is going on here what is happening here so uh anyway uh we'll get into this here now here's some reviews of the town um reviews here they've got some bad ones and some good ones some people love it here's the thing depends on what you're looking at and where you are in life. Because it's beautiful around here. Like, beautiful. Like, the Hudson River's beautiful. It's rolling hills. The scenery is beautiful.

The scenery is gorgeous. Like, people come from fucking China to look at the leaves in the fall. Like, literally, it's like in the top five, you know, leaf-changing places. It's ridiculous. Literally, it's like in the top five leaf-changing places. It's ridiculous. So it's nice like that, but it's also... James, imagine going to see leaves change and then seeing a 13-year-old smoking dust under the tree you're looking at.

Well, you wouldn't go to the village of Wappengers to see leaves change either. You'd be like, hey, nice tree in your yard. Look at that. It looks half fucking dead. Hey, what's wrong with your tree? Oh, you gave it a bunch of dust there right now. I understand.

Have it lay down for a minute. It looks sick. No, no, no. I'm from there. I lived right by Wagon Wheel Pizza, if you know, which by the way is still the best goddamn pizza there is there, Wagon Wheel. Check that out. So anyway, yeah. Trashy, trashy, trashy. Here's some reviews.

And then some of it's shit, like City of Poughkeepsie is pretty sketchy, and then Newburgh has the highest, Newburgh, which is directly across the river from Fishkill. It's where you could buy a nickel bag on the street if you drive five minutes across the bridge. Problem is, it's also the highest murder rate in the United States. And that's I'm not even shitting you. I saw the list of top 10 cities in New York murder rate wise. It's double the South Bronx. I was like, holy fuck.

What are we doing over here? I used to go there all the time when I was a kid. So here's five star review. Fishkill is a unique Hudson Valley town, geographically diverse, ranging from riverside to mountains. Very safe place. Plenty of shopping and restaurants conveniently located near I-84 in the Taconic Parkway. Minutes from the Hudson line, Metro North or Metro Station, the train station and beacon close to New York City, right near Newburgh and Poughkeepsie. Nice place.

That's a person who does well in life probably they probably have a good job in the city see that's the thing there's two types of people that live here and uh this will piss people off they live here and i don't fucking care someone's gonna burn my fucking house down by the end of this episode put it that way between who i'll piss off when we talk about the murder and just pissing off the town if nobody burns the house down it's gonna be a miracle but i don't give a fuck that's to show all you fucks down south that i don't care god damn it has nothing to do with you we just roast things it's just how even if it's against our safety there's also four feet of snow outside so you'll be warm that's true i can if it does burn

i can make an igloo so i'm gonna be fine so So, yeah, anyway, here's a five-star. I've lived here my whole life. It's definitely changed a lot with the influx of Westchester and New York City people, but the area is still beautiful, especially around the fall and the changing of the leaves. Ah, the changing. Two types of people live here. People who have a job in the city or westchester mount kisco somewhere like that tarrytown they commute connecticut somewhere like that and uh you know they make good money there

and instead of living around there they come here where it's cheaper and they just drive an hour yeah there's those types of people they make real good money they do fine then there's people who grew up here people like me and people who like my family you're either lucky like my brother who got a job with the metro north railroad so he has a good career or you you know there's also hvac you know what i'm saying so that's and there's nothing wrong with hvac but if that's the if that's your fucking you're the reaching for the star maybe the place is fucked up is what i'm getting at if that's the star you're reaching for it's a closer star it's a much closer star than that than than many others they're grabbable stars the night the way to set your reach and i never understood it with people here because i'm like

you're an hour from fucking new york you're right there yeah you can take the go five minutes to the trade and get on it you can go trade stocks man do anything people come from the for they crawl out of caves somewhere in the earth to fucking somehow get to new york to have opportunity and it's right there and you're like i don't know there's hvac it's like what the fuck are you doing like i said nothing wrong with hvac my cousin does it does very well with it i'm not saying you make a lot of money doing it or wrong yeah no that's what i mean i'm not disparaging that at all so here here's two stars here. This is kind of honest.

Quote, most of the jobs are set in stone. That's the thing. You've got to know somebody. Everything here is bribery related. A lot of nepotism. A lot of that going on. My mom has been trying to get a job up here for three years so she wouldn't have to travel back and forth between the city and home every day.

She still has not heard back from any of the jobs she's applied for at all. Wow, three years. That might be a mom problem and not a peer problem. Not a single job? That seems very... Three years. I mean, you know what I'm saying? It sounds like the problem is hyper-focused somewhere.

I think, yeah. I think there's something else here. Maybe your mom goes into interviews and tells people fuck off when do i start yeah hey listen you fucking i'm in for the job when do i start motherfucker yeah does she call people cocksucker upon the interview well she hasn't been an interviewer she hasn't heard back from any of the jobs she applied for at all. None of them. They haven't even said, we're not interested. They ignored her. Is there like a murder threat on her resume?

What the fuck is she doing? Burned my last office to the ground. Where is she applying? I wish I know. Is there a no hire list somewhere, like flying? Apparently. Well, her stepdad, though, luckily. My stepdad had to work a full year before Toyota took him on full time.

Oh, those are tough gigs, man. When you've got to do a temporary job, that's brutal. That's tough. They treat you like dog shit. Go on, sorry. You do. No, you get treated like shit, and they can fire you at any time, and you have no benefits. Go along to get along and smile and take it in the ass every day.

All right, then. Good God. And they drag it on so they can mess with you. Torture. We've been there. There's three stars. Quote, there's nothing here, but it's still better than Beacon. That's a fact, actually.

Beacon's the next town over, which has turned into a hipster enclave somehow. Oh, no. They call it little brooklyn now it's like yeah if you've been priced out of that you can just move to beacon it's right by the river it's right by the train station there it's all art galleries and shit now when i was a kid it was a horrible place like main street and beacon i know a kid who got shot in the face selling crack out there literally on the block selling crack they had all the probation offices were on their beacon sneaker was there which was actually great for sneakers yeah kennedy's fried chicken if i mean it was a fucking it wasn't a like a real safe place anyway now the face selling crack is just that's just a job hazard man that's

like an electrician missing fingers. It's going to happen. I got a little buzzed last night. I got a shock to me. So here's one. I've lived in fish. This is three stars. I've lived in fish kill my whole life. And while it's a sleepy little town, it has access to abundance of things to do.

A short drive or train ride away. OK. And here is three stars. We have people come and go yeah okay yeah that's generally that's how places work generally they come they go they live they die they're born that's life the sun comes up and then it fucking then it sets it's weird and uh here's three stars quote would not want to live here anymore. That's a very strange one.

They're out. So population's kind of gone up and down a little bit here. I know like in the 90s when I went to high school here, it was kind of at its shittiest and the population declined a lot. And then after 9-11, more people came, moved up here. Get out of the city. Yeah, that's how that worked. Yeah. Now, the town, like the village and town of Fishkill, the other thing to understand here,

back here, all the towns are like a village, a town, an east, a this, a that. So, like, Wappingers has village and town of Wappingers. Fishkill has village of Fishkill, town of Fishkill, east Fishkill, all kind of different things. Okay. So, like, the village of fishkill has like 2 000 people in it but we're going to do things based on east you know east fishkill town of fishkill everything fishkill here okay so 23 508 people in that uh town it's counted as part of the both the newberg uh poughkeepsie middletown population area and also the new york you know city metropolitan

statistical area yeah so they count it in as far as like new york city metropolitan area when they do population uh more males than females by a little bit no idea why that is um i've made we've driven the females away is all i can think because i know a lot of guys here and a lot of them are jerk off so if i was a woman, I'd move too. It's hard to stick around and want to live there when your little brother's under a tree on dust. I wasn't under a tree. I was at a New Year's Eve party at the Imperial Tower thing there,

Imperial Garden behind the Route 9 shopping center in Wappingers there imperial garden behind the uh route nine shopping center in wappingers there back behind that shit a really shitty place that the hallways look like the fucking shining and it was really fucking yeah yeah so uh it's a little older 41 and a half is the median age here so slightly older uh married population and all that shit's kind of right on the money with everywhere else uh race of this town is almost an exact united states racial breakdown yeah normally white is 61 and a half here to 62 percent uh black 11.5 percent black people here in the country it's 12.3 percent okay so it's all right there 6.99 asian it's normally 5.3 uh 16.1 hispanic it's normally 7.17.6 so it's a very good representation that way anyway demographically about 54 of the

people here are religious but based on the fact that 37.8 of them are percent of them are catholic because catholics are the Baptists of the North, as we know. Of course, yeah. I can tell you that they're not real into it. Okay. This is a casual religion, basically. 0.8% Jewish.

Damn it, we just missed it. So close. So close to Ahava Nagila. Maybe next time. Maybe next time. 2.4% Islam. You know what fuck it in duchess county uh 47.5 percent of the people voted democrat in the last election 47.2 percent voted republican in the last election 5.3 percent right up the middle that's wild yeah it's very right down

the middle unemployment rates about the same with the rest of the country median household income though is high because a lot of the people work in the city and make a shitload of money so it's a kind of a it's a have and have not system going on here median household income 82,946 which is usually good money yeah not bad almost twice as many people make over 200,000 as normal also that's i mean you get that group the cost of living 100 being regular average par uh here it is 118 so a little bit high housing's a 129 a little bit high median home cost here 297 500 welcome to new york there you go and the taxes are rough too um so uh but people like there's a story that i was reading about people who uh moved here from the city the one guy's like

a dentist and all this shit and he was like wow you know we bought a 4500 acre 4500 square foot house for 575 000 and you know it was two million dollars for a 1200 square foot apartment in the city yeah he's got an acre of land he's like you know that's why people come here so if we've convinced you that you need to come to fishkill new york and maybe do some hvac we have for you or dust either one you have some hvacs get dusted and do hvac we have for you the fishkill new New York, Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,475, which is higher than normal. That's steep.

I found a one-bedroom, one-bath, 900-square-foot cond condo um it's nice it looks like redone and shit like that 155 000 bucks okay it's about as cheap as you're getting in anywhere here unless you go get a trailer that's very doable though it's not bad uh it's a small little place though three bedroom two bath 1310 square feet it's a decent family home uh but it's really fucking purple like extra purple like a weird very strange purple color but it recently had a price increase of ten thousand dollars oh which you don't price is going up yeah people apparently since covid a lot of people are moving here from the city because they don't have to work at where they work anymore. They can do it from home.

Also, there's a lot of demand to live in a house the same color as Shaq's dickhead. Well, that's what you want, really. That's what I look at. Usually, every place I've had, I bring Shaq in just to do a color test. Shaq the hue. Yeah. You got to jerk him a little bit, you know, just to get the blood flowing. Get the blood in there.

I mean, that's, you know, it to get the blood flowing, but that's fine. Get the blood in there. It is what it is. And then I found a four-bedroom, five-bath tea bowl for each and every b-hole. Hell yeah. 5,705 square foot, huge giant brick, nice beautiful house on one acre of land.

710,000 bucks. That's a deal. That's doable. It's real nice. 5's a nice 5 500 square foot house yeah for seven on the grand it's really nice it's just one of those neighborhoods that they've made recently where they clear all the trees so yeah even though you live in a place that's naturally a shit loads of trees your yard has none or like two saplings and it's like why didn't you just leave some of the ones that were fucking here? I thought we moved here for the leaves changing.

Why did we do this? I don't get why they do. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media, we have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind the jinx, and I'm excited to bring you

the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,

her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Things to do, and sorry we're going a little long on the town, but it's, you know, I'm from here, so I'm going to have to break its balls a little bit hard here. Also, you've got a little more knowledge.

It's first-hand knowledge. That's the thing here. So, the Town of Fishkill Fall Festival I found here. Oh, yeah. We love these. Oh, these are always fun. Join us at Gearing Park,

which I'll tell you about in a moment, for hay rides, bouncy castle, pumpkin patch, face painting, and more. It's ideal. They're made for kids from kindergarten to sixth grade. Kids, wear your Halloween costumes or bring a trick-or-treat bag. Fuck. Do that. Now, also what you can do is get really fucked up on acid, the concession stand at gearing park get arrested

and do a year in prison for it because i also saw that happen because my friend did that gearing park by the way the hardest rims of any basketball court i've ever played on in my entire fucking life anyone from here will know if the ball so much as grazes the rim it will shoot off of the court like it's not even like just it's gone yeah they'll shoot over the chain it's fucking gone dude so it's awful it takes three weeks to run a game of 15 oh you could have great players and everyone's dying you're like three one your ball like you can't do it and the rims are like 10 foot three you guys and the rims are like 10 three also so what the fuck and in addition to that the court isn't like concrete or asphalt it's like tennis court so if it's even moist to drop you'll kill

yourself i slipped and almost broke i fucked my ankle up so bad on my 16th birthday playing there. Awful place. Anyway, I've told the story in bits and pieces, but I'll tell it here. My friends, I won't mention their names, got hot. They were on acid. They were fucking on. We were like 16. I wasn't with them this night. I think I was delivering pizza maybe or something.

So they got real fucked up on acid and decided they were going to rob the Ames department store, which was like a department store that my friend lived right next to in his neighborhood there. His house bordered the parking lot. So we're like, it was after hours. They were going to break in through the roof. And I don't know what. They didn't have a plan. They were on acid. I just want to see the inside.

That's it. Let's see it when it's dark. i just want to see the inside that's it let's see it when it's dark so one of the friends apparently was still coherent enough to go an alarm will go off and we'll get arrested we shouldn't do that let's go somewhere easier to do this so they ended up at the concession stand at gearing park those rarely have alarms which is which is a garage door on a like a shed basically is what this is where they put a cash register and sell snickers bars and shit out of there that's that's all it is yeah so they went in there they stole all of the concessions which is giant leaf you know garbage yard waste bags full of fucking candy lugging them through it right but they were

wasted so they left the garage door open, so when a cop came and did their rounds, they saw the garage door was open, saw it had been broken into, went looking for them. Long story short, in the village of Fishkill, right across, right there on 52, where there's a pizza place and all this shit, there's a big

sign, and my friends were hiding behind the sign, and my friend goes, I'll go check if the cops are coming. As he walked out, he had a big thing of spree candy in his hand right and as he stepped out three cop cars came right up to him when he's standing there with the spree anyway he got arrested one guy ended up doing at least the chewy ones i don't think so the chewy ones are the only ones worth a fuck they're pretty good the other ones are terrible my friend did a year in prison for this uh because he had a record and he he was like one of the carny that they took in satanic bill i told you about yeah that guy uh so they say he did a year in jail he threatened he sent like threatening letters to my friend from prison

that he was going to kill him and then he got out and just moved back into his basement and it was really weird so that's the type of shit that goes on here fantastic every place is trash is what i'm fucking telling you so when i make fun of somewhere it's because it sucks and if you live there and you like it it's because it all every place has good things too but they also suck yeah we but it's not fun to go yeah it's pretty okay great well that's a comedy show no it's fun to talk about this shit right so that's what we're doing so um crime rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime is about 25 percent uh under the national average not bad and uh violent crime murder rape robbery assault, the amount Rushmore of crime, is about one-third of the average of normal.

So, pretty safe in Fishkill, actually. Which is hilarious, because holy shit, you just drive across the bridge and you're in the murder capital of... It's so weird. New Perch, right? You'd think they'd get hit by a stray over in Fishkill once in a while. Something. So, anyway, that said, let us talk about a murder. Let's do that. Let's do it jimmy um okay and we'll get into this as we go here let's go back to january the 19th 2007 yeah shall we so

not housing crisis in full swing let's do it well not yet i think it just was didn't even pop yet i think it was just about to explode was it jan 2007? January 2007. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, this is 3.20 a.m. on a Friday morning, January 19, 2007. 3.20 a.m. on Route 82 in Fishkill. To be exact, 203 Route 82 in Fishkill, in the town of Fishkill. in Fishkill, in the town of Fishkill. A driver driving by it, a woman, reports, calls the fire department and reports a house heavily engulfed in flames, according to the fire department.

And firefighters went there, obviously to put it out. They just went to take a look. Right. Really? I've never seen that shit. I love a good fire. Yeah. Who's got, you didn't get Hershey's.

Well, what's a, that's not a s'more, Chet. It's not a s'more. That's just marshmallows and graham cracker. That's gross. Nobody wants that. That's not anything. We need the pop and the chocolate in here. Nobody ever wants that.

You know what? I'm sorry. You're demoted. I'm sorry. No. No, not in rank. You just don't get to slide down the'm sorry no no not in rank you just don't get to slide down the pole anymore i'm sorry and then you don't get to pet the dog no sparky get away from him no he doesn't get to pet don't you get a treat no next house fire you go in without the

mask that's what's happening we have one less so whoever's the asshole that week you know how it works you're it you're the guy so um yeah the fire that week, you know how it works. You're it. You're the guy. So, yeah, the fire department gets there. They try to put it out. It's a blazer, too. I mean, it's going. Once it's put out, the house is pretty much destroyed. I mean, it's not anything that's salvageable.

It's a pile of rubble. It's that bad. About 3.35 a.m., there is a report of a car fire less than a mile from this house as well oh so this is uh a lot going on the way back yeah yeah a lot going on at 3 20 a.m on route 82 here so uh the car is a purple kia what's up with the purple honestly too much purple what kind of kia a suv or a little car i think It's a car. It's a Kia car. Yeah, it's not an SUV.

I'm not sure what model, but when we talk about Kia cars, does it really matter what model it is? They're all shit. It's a Fiat, Optima, whatever. They're all the same. Which, through some quick deduction, they find out the people who live in that house, or were in that house, that their car is a purple Kia. Oh. So, the car is linked to the house very quickly. Okay, that's from there. But it's like a mile away.

It's not like it caught on fire from the house and then drove itself a mile away. Yeah, it just rolled downhill. It just rolled downhill. It tried to get away from the fire. Came out of the garage. Help me. Beep, beep, beep. Just going off on it.

So about 4.20 a.m., so almost an hour after they get there, almost an hour it takes to get the house fire under control, which, you know, it's a long time. fire under control which you know it's a long time uh when they finally get it under control and they start to push through the rubble a little bit they realize that this isn't this isn't just a house fire at all this is uh something way bigger this is a cover-up of something completely different and the fire is a completely secondary thing and they make about the most grisly discoveries you can make and we will get into that in just a moment but before that we have to go back in time a little bit okay here uh december of 2006 we have to go to so a couple months earlier yeah a month and a half earlier two months earlier in november into december 2006 let's talk about some people uh let's talk about manual maury the third oh the

third jimmy and it's a it's a one two three four lineage too oh boy as we'll talk about because his son is the fourth jesus christ absolutely and he is the son of manual maury jr yeah so this is a straight third um he goes by tony though tony morey nobody calls him man i would too yeah he's about 33 years old manual to tony how the fuck did that happen it's i mean it's it's easier i'll just be italian i guess i don't know i mean is that an italian name is he an Italian guy? Not usually. No, that's usually Spanish, Mexican. Yeah, Tony is just... Latin American of some sort. Tony is just kind of universal back here.

Just if you have... Because I know a lot of... That's the thing. If you've got a foreign guy who's doing something, you don't even know what country he's from, you're like, what's your name? Tony. And you're like, your name isn't Tony.

I know your name's not Tony. My name's Jimmy. People call me Raphael. Yeah what people people call call me eduardo but only like that they really have to roll the r or else fuck you that's my normal name so uh yeah he is 33 years old so he is a few years older than me all of these people that we're going to talk about in this story went to the same high school as me at different times. This guy was, I went to school with him. He was like a senior when I was his freshman or something of that nature. But I don't know him. I didn't know him. And then his wife was my age at this point, maybe a year older than me. She was 29 or 30 here. And she also went to john jay so john jay high

school is well represented here and not in a good way yeah this is all this is all the worst john jay can conjure and uh very very embarrassing for the alumni i should probably make a donation after i fucking do this episode but i won't because the school really did nothing for me i didn't even fucking graduate there wasn't heat in half the classrooms. There fucking was a swamp around there. Tons of kids I know got cancer and died when they were 25 because it's in between five IBM plants with giant high-tension wires all around it.

It's a fucking horrible place. So, you know what? And who is John Jay? Who is that guy? He was in the revolutionary thing. He was also John Jay. He's a founder? Legal college in New York City.

So a lot of John Jay stuff back here. Bewigged douchebag, Jimmy. That's just, we'll go with that. So everything back here is all bewigged douchery. Or a hacky radio guy. Either way. Yeah. Either way.

So Tony Morey III, like I said, he's 33 in 2006. His wife, Tina Morey, her maiden name was Kohler, she is 30 at this point as well. They live on Route 82 in Fishkill. So they have three kids at this point in time. They've been married a while. They have a family here. Tony, OG Tony here, the third, he was born in 1973, born at poughkeepsie vassar hospital like every asshole from here is all born at vassar hospital and uh he as we'll talk about he's recently in 2006 he

quit his job yeah he couldn't stand the grind anymore jimmy couldn't do it i feel you buddy he is at this point a quote self-employed fence installer so this is what the fuck i'm talking about this is him and craigslist yes this is why i moved away immediately because i'm like if i stay here i can be a self-employed fence installer and and actually i even had like i even had like a nepotistic in my dad's friend is an electrician and he offered when i was like 18 to but right before i moved to let me be an apprentice you know so i would have been in the union i would have maybe been making 100 grand a year by the time i was 25 but i thought to myself that will be my life forever and at 18 i can't do i can't fucking do that

i am leaving this place i can't i just can't do it not there's anything wrong with that because it's a great living and a great career but that's not what wasn't my dream it's a tough gig too man that's a tough gig and where is there room for like comedy which was always my dream and all that shit not a lot of room for that and you gotta be up at like 5 in the morning to be at the yard at 6. That's not my style. You gotta be alert, James, at 6 a.m. It's not just awake. I like to be stoned.

Yeah. I can do this on 100 milligrams of edible. I wouldn't suggest electricity work. No. You don't want to be landing primary voltage. Probably not not at 6 a.m stoned and that's what i would have been doing because that's just how my brain works so it's better it worked out better put it that way it's it's more like you got to leave to come back type

of thing so um yeah he quits his job he's a fence installer he's doing his thing he uh also likes the outdoors um as we'll we'll talk about he's always riding around uh four wheelers and shit he's always got big fan of the leaves changing this guy he loves the leaves she likes to rip through the woods as the leaves change tear up the trails yeah uh him and his kids are always on atvs and route 82 in that area behind all those houses is a shitload of woods basically it's a lot of woods in this east fishkill area this is kind of out there john j high school kind of has a a couple different classes basically we had if you were like from the village of fishkill side of things you were that was that would meant you were trash. That was you were the trash people over there.

And the people who lived out in Hopewell, there was a lot of rich kids that lived out there. Yeah. So it was very, very odd. Like you had kids who were pretty fucking, you know, having hard times mixed with people who were very, very wealthy, like a lot of high schools. But it's just it was interesting here. This is kind of in the middle. There's some, you know, whatever. So he's got a wife, Tina, like we talked about.

She, at this time, has also, her career path, also very upwardly mobile. And I use that word mobile because she works at the Fishkill Mobile Station as a cashier. Yeah. That is a gas station. If they don't have mobile in other countries, I don't know. But yes, that's... I'm sorry. She's mad mobile.

That's what I mean. That's upwardly mobile here. I got a job at mobile. That's what that means. Excited for me? Also a tough gig, man. Jesus. Gas station work is so fucking horrifying i know people that worked at the exact station she worked at the good thing when i lived back

here in high school and high basically during then every you knew people that worked at like 12 gas stations every fast food place so you didn't pay for anything as a teenager. You just go get the hookup on gas. What? Not gas. Gas was the only thing you had to pay for everything else. But kids would come in with like a stolen credit card and you would pay them half on the thing. And that's how we'd get gas.

But anyway, I shouldn't give up all my secrets, but we would just go in and pillage these places. We just go in and just leave with as much as we could carry and be like bye it's italian vikings just taking everything jesus christ dude there the the movies we just walk in and it was ridiculous anywhere fast food my i had a friend that worked at kfc he was the big chicken he used to slip us a bucket full of fucking all sorts of chicken and shit he'd be dancing around you go out there and he'd slip it to you from under his thing i'm telling you my uncle did that in colorado he used to take me to his ex-girlfriend's popeyes

and she'd just drop a bucket of chicken out the window at like 11 o'clock at night when they're closing because they don't want to throw it out you have to do it at the end of the night when they were divvying up the leftover but. But he'd call her and be like, hey, you guys are about to close. Throw some more down. So she'd make a shitload of chicken right before they're about to close. We did the same shit, man.

And I handed it to the white trash and the Chevette in the drive-thru. Oh, God. To us, it was my 85 Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra with fucking smoke pouring out of the window. Shit, yeah. That was a joke. My uncle's Chevet,

you had to pump the brakes to stop. Sweet Christ, if the light turned yellow, the fear in his face. We're about to blow this light. Oh, my God. I had a steering rack problem in my Oldsm my automobile if you don't know what that is that would be like if you're turning it would just stop the wheel would stop turning so when you're going around a turn and you're turning and then the wheel stops turning and you're careening towards hopefully it's enough radius hopefully got it

that was my car. Or mash on the gas and fishtail it. Either one. Just fuck it. Might as well shoot myself into the trees. So that's the other thing. To give you some credentials as I make fun of the area more, I lived on Remson Avenue in Wappingers. I lived on West Main Street right on the corner in the village in Wappingers. I lived on West Main Street, right on the corner in the village of Wappingers.

If you're from the area, the Playhouse fucking theater across the street from there, that was my bus stop in sixth and seventh grade. That's where I sat on the steps of the theater was my bus stop. I lived in fucking Woodhill Green shitty apartments. I lived in fucking Montclair. You guys know where the fuck that is?

More shitty apartments. I lived in fucking people's basements. I lived in Cherry Hill in Pough apartments. Yeah. I lived in fucking people's basements. I lived in Cherry Hill in Poughkeepsie. I lived in fucking, holy crap, I could name, I have a list of like 40 places I lived before the age of 12. It was a disaster. So anyway. Why was your dad running?

No, that was my mom. My dad had like four places over the course of this. He was pretty stable. Who was she running from? I don't fucking know but we were everywhere i'll tell you that much so and in terms of schools like i went to i went to fishkill then i went to noxon road i went to fucking evans for fifth and sixth fourth fifth and sixth grade i went to fucking wappingers junior high so i can make fun of that dump shit

hole also which is still a cool looking building so anyway back to this one uh tina here the wife uh tina she uh she likes to cook and bake and shit like that so she's apparently a very gregarious person everybody seems to like her she is uh she was born in nyack actually she's like two years older than me she's born in nyack she kind of has been bouncing from cashier job to cashier job um most recently like i said the mobile and fishkill with their upward mobility and um yeah people like her now uh they have three sons as well at this point they have a 13 year old who is tony morey the fourth right yeah i gotta keep it going um he is uh he goes to van wick junior high he's a van wick kid i was a wappingers kid so that was that's if you lived

in east fishkill hopewell you went there if you lived in wappingers or village of fishkill town of fishkill you went to wappingers um he uh i think he was on the football he played football and uh that sort of shit so he also on the wrestling team so he was an athletic into sports kid here at the time uh his brother adam who is 10 years old at this time here uh he goes to brinkerhoff elementary and um he uh he's a big basketball player at this time real Real into the ATV thing with his dad and shit like that. Family likes to do that. Then they have a six-year-old as well. Man, six, 10, and 13 boys.

That's a lot. You need four-wheelers and woods just to knock the starch out of them. I mean, that's like... Yeah, but the good thing is they're probably barely buying clothes they're just buying clothes for the big kid and then just shuttling it down the line as the other ones grow into them that's true they're they're spaced out enough where it would you know still be it's not like one kid has bell bottoms and then it's 1985 and the other kid has like jord ashes or something it's not it's not to that they're close enough in fashion where it still works yeah you know it's a couple

of years whatever yeah you know uh fucking whatever video game they're into probably got a part two it's the same characters star wars is still fine yeah all that shit so uh yeah they have three kids though and they live at 203 route 82 oh which should sound familiar. That is the address of that fire. So we'll find out what the hell will happen. Now, they are at the time of the fire. They are in the process of being evicted, which is interesting. The landlord, a guy named Tom Scarva with two A's. Yeah, I'm Scarva. How you doing?

Tommy Scarva here. He says that they stopped paying rent in November, haven't paid rent since November 1st, so they didn't pay their December or January rent, and they were in the process of being evicted. And he said that they appeared to have been financially struggling in recent months since Tony has quit his job

and gone into the self-fence installment business. Yeah. This is here, which for some reason, self-employed fence installer, I know it's not. It just means you have your own business, but it sounds like you're putting in fences unsolicited. Yeah. Like, no one asked you to. You come home from work, and there's like three-quarters of of a fence up and there's a bunch of guys pounding posts in. You're like, what the fuck are you doing?

Or there's just one sweaty guy with a business card saying, send the check here. He's got like two sections of fence in. He's like, I'll finish the job. I swear. Just please. I'm almost done. Just pay up. I didn't ask for that.

I'm self-employed though. This is what I do. I don't know why that sounds like that. I'm just a fence installer. I just do this. This is what I do. I mean't know why that sounds like that. I'm just a fence installer. I just do this. This is what I do. I mean, you don't want a fence installed. You put a fence in to keep me out.

Otherwise, what are you doing? This is on you. This is on you as much as it is me. I mean, yeah. By the way, if you want to put that fence in, I happen to know a guy. Just saying. Either way. I'll fence myself out if you like. That's what I mean way i'll fence myself out if you like that's what i mean i'll fence myself out i'll fence you in i'll fence whatever you want put your dog down i'll build a fence

around him i don't care that's what i'm trying to fucking tell you what are we doing i'll fence your car in what you want a garden i'll put 10 foot fences around it he's just ready to fence i don't know what it is so uh you want to get yourself a sword we'll fence like that right i do any kind of fencing that you could possibly need i got this tell you what here's your sword here's mine we're gonna fence and whoever wins gets to build the fence whoever wins gets to decide about the fence what do you say by the way i have some stolen goods in case you... I got some watches in case you want. If you can get rid of these, then you can be the fence.

Then you can be the fence. What I'm saying is, I deal in fences. That's my main... That's my whole thing. I realize you're probably on the fence about this. I'm understanding this. I get it. I get it, but I realize you're probably on the fence about this. I'm understanding this. I get it. I get it, but I think you just want to take yourself,

just take your brain and climb over that fence into the yard of beauty and understanding of what the fuck I'm talking about. I got a fence for you. Put this hat on. I realize it's a fez and this is a stretch, but put it on anyway. Jesus Christ. I love it's a fez and this is a stretch, but put it on anyway. Jesus Christ. I love it. So keep your horses in also, if we can cooperate last week.

If only that guy met this guy, everything would be perfect. Yeah. So were they good tenants? Him especially? What do you think, Jimmy? They're 60 days behind. That's not good in the first place. But Mr. Scarpo does not fuck around. Scarpa? Scarpo? Scarpa you think, Jimmy? They're 60 days behind. That's not good in the first place. But Mr. Scarpo does not fuck around.

Scarpa? Scarpo? Scarpa. It doesn't matter. You fuck with that man and his money. 60 days is the most you're getting. You're getting the fuck out of my place. Tom Scarpa will get you out.

So they're 60 days behind. They probably have been late every single month, too. Well, let's see what tom scarva has to say about it well he wasn't the best tenant okay well the question answered there you are was he the best tenant no next question uh he quote he tore up the yard with his quad uh he said that he and his wife threw parties on the front lawn every weekend last summer. Ew. On the front lawn?

Gross. What are you doing? By the way, I must tell you, 82 is like a main road. Like 52 goes up out of Fishkill and then 82 breaks off of it and goes into Hopewell and East Fishkill and shit. It's like a main road. There's only these two roads that go into that area. Right. roads that go into that area right so for you to be partying on the front lawn you're partying just like in like a steady stream of everybody that goes from fishkill to east fishkill passing by

your house looking at you're looking at this whole thing that's why you go in the backyard this isn't like in a neighborhood this is right on the main street just flagging people down want to come to our party they probably are yeah and it's they're not like 500 yards from the road or anything too it's like you know 30 feet from the road is the house it's just they're just hanging out in the front yard uh so quote every weekend in the summer they would have parties and it would be a running joke how many cases of beer would be left outside the house oh that's gross so you're getting the picture right um then he says quote whenever i would see him, speaking of Tony Morey, he would never look me in the eyes. It was odd.

He said that he always wore a black leather jacket, white T-shirt and black leather boots. He says the landlord says, quote, He seemed like a throwback to the 50s and a Fonzarelli wannabe. Obviously referring to Fonzie from Happy Days. This is his landlord? What the fuck? I mean, he knows him, I guess. He's been keeping an eye out. Look at him drinking beer, looking like Fonzie.

He's drinking beer. He's looking like Fonzie. This fucking guy over here. Standing on his patio, just kicking the jukebox. I'm going to call the Poughkeepsie Journal and tell them about it. But he did get the jukebox working again. That was impressive. And that is a pretty fence he built around the yard.

I will say that. I didn't ask him to do it or nothing, but it's not bad. I'm going to be honest with you. So, Jesus Christ. uh now uh also uh in early january of 2007 uh patty gersh who it was a gas station clerk working with uh tina she said that uh that tina had told her that they were planning on or that tina was planning on leaving her husband and taking the kids to virginia Oh, so that's the plan. This is, you know, this is fellow clerks that shit. I guess they're very close when you work with someone at a gas station. I mean, I've worked at a gas station.

Yeah, I worked at the when I first moved to Phoenix. I worked at the Chevron at Cave Creek and Greenway. Did you really? Oh, yeah. Or you were making making six packs out of cases. Sawed off 12 packs. Yeah, that's what they are, which is take a razor blade

and literally saw a 12-pack in half. Sawed off 12 packs. And then make sure you hold it upright so the hands don't spill out. There you go, sir. What the fuck is this? Get out of my store. It's $2 more than half a case cost.

That's what it is. And there's no top on that So watch your step Absolutely and there is no plastic Around each of those cans those Shits are going all over your floorboard You know it's happened the cops Gonna pull you over I worked the overnight

There so god damn it James I had a 357 under The counter I was not fucking around it was Crackhead Neighborhood man No fucking around. It was crackhead. Yeah, that place, that's a tough neighborhood, man. No fucking around over there. So it was rough.

Although that's a very nice gas station for that neighborhood. Like everything was inside was put together. Yeah, it was a classy place. It's very bizarre. What more do you want? Exactly.

Certainly misplaced is what that place is. Now they put that cute to never mind. They put a cutie there to scare the shit out of those employees. Yeah. So anyway, she's going to leave her kids, take them to leave her husband, take the kids to Virginia. That's the plan.

She's going to leave. Tony doesn't say why this is happening. She just gives like a heads up. Like if you don't see me in a week, it's because I took the kids and took the fuck off. Right. Yeah. Well, the landlord has already described a nightmare situation that i would want out of i i would say so and uh also

he uh tony is described by pretty much everyone around as a quote low-level crack dealer as well so this is which that's the other thing i need to bring up and that's the elephant in this room of this place is drugs are fucking rampant here and i'm not talking about like the new you know the opiates of the last five years i'm talking in the 90s crack was fucking enormous here in the 2000s crack not meth crack coke crack real coke real right by new york city and get all the coke you want you don't need to get meth no one needs to go make anything it's pouring in everywhere so this is a very very cracky area and there's a lot a lot a lot of people who do um and i'm not saying this because people i don't know but people i do know and did know who are like blue collar people that supplement their income in a place with a little higher cost of living and taxes by this sort of shit on the side.

Dealing crack. This is very normal for someone to like own a construction company or be like a plumber or this or that. And they sell coke. Well, that's really, really normal. Like guys who were just you know work straight jobs but they do that to to make a little extra to make a living that's right i mean watch good fellas you know like if you want an explanation it's it's there for the taking so they do it and uh the crack situation here like when i was a teenager and i'm saying this because

these people and more people we're going to talk about went to high school with me so this is relevant to how they came up and what causes all this shit is i'll tell you a story i remember i was hanging out at my friend's house it was wheaton avenue in the village of fishkill right there and he had his family was pretty fucked up and he's a great fucking guy too awesome guy crazy fucked up family uh crackhead in there in the mix and all this type of shit we're hanging out in the basement you're allowed to smoke weed in his house that was the kid so you know that house yeah where who's how you know he's 15 but you're allowed to smoke weed inside it's very strange and it's never a good situation either it's always bad and the bomb can't smell it because she's either smoking

a cigarette right now or she's also smoking weed oh yeah no they her boyfriend would would try to take bets on football games from us and like have and then if you'd win he'd be like well i'll give you i'll give you an eighth of weed you'd be like no no that's not worth 30 bucks that's what you sell it for it's not what it's worth give me 30 bucks and I'll go buy my own. So yeah, he would try to scam teenagers like that and shit. He was a scumbag. So anyway, one day we're all hanging out in the basement smoking weed. And one of my friends who I won't name and satanic bill, who I just say that because

it's a, it's just a moniker, you know, just a, just a name that we called him. He, they come in and they say, hey, you guys want to do something? And we're like, sure. And then they start smoking crack. Oh, no. So I'm like, I'm not smoking crack. That smells terrible.

And I had done coke once in my life before that, and it was the most horrific experience. I'm fucking, I'm up there enough. I don't need anything to take me to another level. I'm fine. I need weed to knock me me down three pegs to keep me reasonably crazy but not to that level so they start smoking crack but they're all doing it in the open having fun they're laughing yeah three days later i come back they are in a blanketed off corner of the basement smoking crack and whispering.

Three days it took to get to that. No, no, no. That's just the progression of it in three days. Later on that week, they were coming in with cigarette machines and pay phones, cracking them open for the quarters. They tried to pour the metal to make a key to open to make a master key for pay phones. Jimmy tried to smelt a key they and they got it down but they couldn't get a metal that was hard enough that wouldn't crack when you turned it that was that wouldn't break off but they actually smelted a fucking that's how crazy these people are

crackheads yeah so what i'm saying is i'm not above knowing these types of people or anything like that so i'm not trying to punch down or you know shoot from an upper floor by any stretch of the fucking imagination here so uh i know a lot of people that do a lot of messed up shit and it's fine so um now he's got some friends as well here that he kind of hangs out with and uh he sells to kind of sort of it's said that they're maybe they buy some stuff together they go in on some shit together sometimes you kind of sort of it said that there maybe they buy some stuff together. They go in on some shit together sometimes, you know, that sort of thing. Sure.

Little small amounts here. And those are that's a guy named Mark Serrano who will talk about and a guy named Charles Gillio who will talk about Charlie Gillio. They someone here says, quote, they were acquaintances through the drug connection. They someone here says, quote, they were acquaintances through the drug connection. Everyone called it a a business relationship they had originally, but they've known each other forever. Gillio and Maury, Tony and Charlie Gillio have known each other since they were kids. And then Serrano hangs out with with Charlie Gillio and comes over there and hangs out.

That's the kind of the relationship how it goes um they all kind of buy and sell and kind of do sleazy you know low-level shit here basically and do drugs and shit charlie gilio charles gilio jr another jr in the mix uh he's 32 years old in early 2007 best described by me as a quote local scumbag yeah that's what i would call him if you saw him walking you'd go that's local scumbag charlie gilio like he is um he him and he had brothers or cousins by the same name and at the time the same last name at the time i don't know now they might have you know they might have the best self-employed fence installer company going or i have no idea what the family is doing now but at the time

this batch of gilio's uh charles and a couple others that i won't name were kind of known as the the whites of this area yeah like the wonderful whites of west virginia they were like the whites like i know people who would get picked up by the cops without id when they were like 15 and they would say they were one of the gilio's i never did that but i know people who literally did that i just said i was so and so gilio fuck them that because they were like and i'll say charles especially because he was kind of the the head of it was he was a fucking asshole he was just an asshole that's all he was he was a joe dirt looking scumbag in like 1995 when mullets and all that shit were not cool anymore they were

a punchline already yeah oh yeah they were literally the no everybody the the whites they were the fucking whites but the benefit of that is that you are known especially yeah there is something uh great to being quote unquote notorious i mean the one white who is missing right now and people are looking for and they know who she is because she's a fucking nut job that's great true it's. If they were a little bit this much more interesting, Jimmy, maybe someone would have walked around and filmed them at the time. But instead, he's just, quote, local scumbag. There he goes. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, Thank you. Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining

Wondery Plus. It's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed

and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, I remember him and his family and uh yeah i mean the best thing would be like you know like kind of that mid-90s like metal fan look but not like the black just like a denim jacket mullet that kind of thing but like freckly and like real like kind of he was a real trashy looking dude the dirt has yeah he wore like tight jeans in the 90s you're like what are you doing what were you like just and but but not like picking on him for fashion he was like a dirt bag too like he sold like

he would like sell fucking uh fake drugs and shit he was that kind of stuff no and then there'd be 20 people wanting to beat the fuck out of him and, you know, chasing him around. And, yeah, it was he was that kind of guy, like just always had shit going on here. But he's really, really good friends since childhood with Tony Morey. They're tight and they often ride four wheelers together all around the neighborhood and people see them and everything like that. So you have you have them now friend of gilio here of charlie charlie gilio is a guy named mark serrano now mark serrano he's 29 years old at the time mark serrano and i went to high school together and i remember him very well because i used to fuck with him because he was a fucking asshole yeah and i'm gonna be very very very honest here uh there was i'm 99.99

sure he's got an identical twin brother he's either got an identical twin brother or a brother that's a year older or younger who you couldn't tell him apart from if you had a microscope so i'm not sure but there's fucking two of them but this is the one we're talking about i'm not going to involve his brother in this obviously but he and his brother and this other guy that they hung out with, who I won't name, used to walk around in these outfits in high school like they thought they were. They basically looked like they were like assistants to the assistance to their leader of a banana republic is what they look like. Like paramilitary flunkies is how they dressed yeah they had like combat boots but not like cool

docks you know what i'm saying they had like boots that were like tied up all the way like they were gonna trudge through a swamp in them like caterpillars yeah and like no no combat boots right combat yeah and with like their pants tucked in and they wore like either the like army navy surplus green you know like jacket or like trench coats and shit like that and they acted like the one kid who i called okay i called them hitler and the a team that's what i called their group the leader of this little group, who is a fucking dipshit, like had he did his hair and like this like Nazi youth way. And he he just looked like a fuck.

He looked like a fucking Nazi. He just looked like a Nazi. So and he strutted around with these boots with his chest out. And this little group used to like fuck with people. They used to like fuck with kids that were weaker than like younger kids and shit like that. But they were pussies. So I'd get the whole group and just call them names, called them Hitler and the A-Team.

And I had a song about Hitler and the A-Team. He's a boy. I don't remember the fucking words, but I was fucking follow these kids singing behind them to try to get them to say something so I could fight with them because I didn't like them because they picked on people that I thought were weaker than them. So right away, I don't like this kid's character. Like, I know this motherfucker and I don't like him. And I didn't like him then.

And I fucked with him for a good two years. And I really wish that just one time he would have said something because it might have changed a lot of shit that happened here. Changed the course of history. It's possible. So Hitler and the A-Team. Mark Serrano, part of the A-Team is what I called them. Because if you don't know what that was, it was a shitty TV show with Mr. T. It's a great TV show.

Are you nuts? I love it when a plan comes together, James. I watched the shit out of the A-Team. Such a good show. That van was pretty cool. It was. It was super unrealistic. If you were going to get molested in any van. Oh, that's the 18. Such a good show. That van was pretty cool. It was. It was super unrealistic. If you were going to get molested in any van.

Oh, that's the one. That's the one. Oh, it's so rad. You'd almost be like, I got molested, but that van was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And a 440 in it. That's a loud car. I mean, they let me drive around the block afterwards, so no, that's a terrible thing

to say. That's how cool. We're saying us as kids, not you. Kids in the 80s, that's how cool the van was to us. We would have taken one for the team on that one. So to get a ride in the A-team van. I still got a cross mark on my back, but it was worth it. I got shag burns all over me still.

My knees got scratched. So I called them Hitler and the A-Team is what I'm getting at. I mean, as much as I saw them. I think Hitler was in my study hall, which is a fun phrase to say. Hitler was in my study hall. which is a fun phrase to say hitler was in my study hall which is don't see you don't hear that one often somebody said that in history though somebody had to maybe did they have study hall back then i mean i think maybe not i think everything was forced study hall back then study where in the hall right now yelling at him in austrian yeah so um yeah they they uh grew up together here uh hitler and the a team and um basically they all they all went to john jay like i said now charlie

gilio and tony morey are so close that tony's three sons call charlie uncle charlie oh boy so yeah they're very very close they grew up together and everything like that one of the neighbors here says charlie's family and tony's family were like family to each other okay okay he also said that they had raucous parties and it was always kind of the two of them were the main cogs of these parties they would drive the four-wheelers all around on the street around the the neighborhoods, and shit like that. Yeah, you know the family. They would yell and scream on their ATVs and annoy all the neighborhood, basically, is what this neighbor said.

One of the neighbors said about Gillio, quote, he'd act whacked out every weekend. So there's that. That's a great review. It's great. He was not a good tenant as the one guy and he would whack that he would act whacked out every weekend right these are the this is what we're dealing with here and and a member of hitler and the a team these are the characters we got going on here so um yeah they all they all do drugs together they all hang out together they party

together and you know i don't know if they install fences together but we'll see serrano works for royal carding who is the the company that takes my garbage right now so that's pretty fucking funny uh anyway he uh it's the one of the garbage companies here there's like fucking 12 of them so uh at the time as well there's an 18 year old living in the house named francis cannon uh he's a john jay high school student who was arrested for burglarizing john jay high school oh fantastic how do you what do you do what are you taking but i know a kid who got drunk and broke into i know a kid who got drunk and a guy he was like 18 at the time got drunk and broke into the elementary school evans elementary school and just fucked with some shit and like he cut himself on the glass because he was drunk and he bled all over the computers and they charged him with vandalism for like

bleeding all over the computers that was an extra charge he deserves it that's what he said he goes i don't know why i did that shit every charge he deserves it what a dick why would you do that you fucking dummy he didn't even take the computers. He just wanted to bleed on them. What was he? He was drunk. He would have dropped them anyway. I was just jonesing for some math.

Oh, my God. I think I've lifted the curtain a little too far back on this episode. I might have given everybody too much. Too much wizard. Too much inside. Yeah, I think so. I try to keep an air of something here we thought you were taller and uh yeah i've just i'm letting way too much out of the bag so this is why when we like make fun of people on crime and sports i'm like don't we know these

fucking people do you understand it's not like i'm sitting oh look at this guy out there i know that guy i know i know what he was doing because i was doing it or someone i know was doing it too so uh this guy this francis cannon he's like i said arrested for burglarizing john jay high school had been staying at the home until january 16th he stays there of uh of 2007 when he goes to jail that's the only reason he leaves because he's taken to jail now uh, he was told, by the way, the day before he was taken to jail, there was a court hearing, and Tina, the wife, had told him,

we're going to help you and get you out of this. And then it didn't work, obviously, because he ended up going to jail. So Tony, according to one of his friends, Tony Morey kept his drugs in a lock box under his bed that's how he yeah that's how he worked this uh when his three kids went to sleep then people could come over to buy and use coke you know you come hang out with him and whatever or you could just come buy some coke off him if you're a friend of his and he didn't have

a major operation it wouldn't be like strangers stopping by. It was just, that's what you do. You sell to your friends. Every little group has one guy here that gets shit for everybody. That's kind of how it works. So, yeah, that's what he was doing. When the boys were awake, people had to go to his bedroom and close the door or they'd go down in the basement and do deals. bedroom and close the door or they'd go down in the basement and do deals.

Okay. So then when they were kids, when the kids were asleep, you could come in and hang out and, uh, you know, they party up over here. It's a little tiny two story house on route 82. Uh, so like we said, the friend, uh, the Frankie Cannon guy who robbed the, robbed the high school, he lives with them for about four or five months and he helps Tony sell drugs. You got to earn your keep. He's not a freeloader here. He can't be a journeyman right out of the gate.

Exactly. You need to put your time in as an intern and really climb the ladder here. He said that two of Tony's clients later on, two of them who happened to be Charles Gillio and Mark Serrano, he would sell, Tony would sell about $80 worth of powder cocaine to Charlie Gillio every week. So about 80 bucks a week worth of powder, which isn't really a lot.

That's a little bit here. And then between $200 and $ 400 worth to mark serrano a team member number one or two depending on which brother he is it's a bit more it's a bit more yeah that's that's a decent amount of coke there that's you're going through some shit um so he's not doing too terrible they said said about May 2006, Tony threw a birthday party for himself and his wife that cost not bad, right? What do you think

that party consisted of? Lots of quads and drinking and front lawns. You think ripping up front lawns? Yeah, that sort of thing. No, that party, I don't know possibly, but maybe they got

some new quads for it because the party cost $15,000. What, that party, I don't know, possibly, but maybe they got some new quads for it because the party cost $15,000. What kind of party? What? That's like my super sweet 16 type of fucking party. Like, what party costs $15,000? Have you ever had a party that costs $15,000? It's called a wedding.

I was going to say, it's called a wedding if the woman's always wanted to be a princess that's the only time it's gonna cost that much if she had like a princess thing when she was a kid that's a lot of money give a shit 15 grand he's hiring a dj and he's catering it jesus fuck man what kind of food that is maybe that was like maybe it's like a tyrone biggins thing like it's you know like he just bought the biggest crack rock he could find or he just got a very small one from the drug dealer in pulp fiction because those prices went fucking drastic changes you know what i mean so yeah maybe he just got good stuff this time well part of his he bought four ounces of cocaine for the party yeah which that's a star a lot yeah it's a lot for a party that's more than half of the 15 grand that's a lot of money that's a lot. That's a lot for a party. That's more than half of the 15 grand. That's a lot of money.

That's a lot to just like a quarter pound of Coke just to fucking do. It's a lot, yeah. In like a party? I guess that you have a lot of people, but still, I mean, you got to be. Certainly catering. That's some kind of catering. I'm picturing Scarface piles and shit on the goddamn, on a picnic table or worse on a quad seat. Yeah.

If you're doing rails off your quad seat, you need to rethink your life. I would imagine that's a little more cleanly than a fucking toilet seat. People do that all the time. So who knows? Good point. You know, it's also fucked up.

I don't think this house had a fence. Isn't that weird it's like the guy that works on cars always has the shittiest car and and the lady that cleans houses her house is always a pigsty you know the chef always eats macaroni and cheese if you do it for jobs you don't do that shit at home you think you'd put it up like as a display thing like if you're for all these parties you could't do that shit at home. You think you'd put it up as a display thing? Like, if you're for all these parties, you could be like, one person goes, that's a nice fence.

You go, really? Listen, I can get you a nice quote. And at that point, you can write off the party. There you go. That's a business meeting. Probably not the cocaine, but the rest of it. Also, weed and plenty of beer. The party lasted four days jesus my god imagine being

their neighbor there's never been an event in my entire life that i wanted to celebrate it for four days long that's never what the fuck has there ever been an event that you were going to do where you had four ounces of cocaine to do over the course of the event excellent point that might have turned into four days if maybe that was the deal. I didn't have enough fuel for it. That's all. That's all it was, Jimmy. You were weak.

Yeah. You were weak. You needed to get some coke, put up some fences, and get your shit together. So four-day beer, booze, weed, and blow party. Beer, booze, butt, and blow party. Beer, booze, bud, and blow party. It's on. So, now, Frankie Cannon, who was staying there, he's a high school dropout. And he had recently been also, not only was he kicked out of school, he was kicked out of his grandmother's house.

Hell, yeah. Which seems harder to get kicked out of than school. That's usually the last place you can get kicked out of. Yeah, you're usually at your grandmother's house because your parents kicked you out. That's why you're there. She'll put up with a lot more shit than most any other place. She remembers when you were little and you peed on her when she tried to change your diaper. And that's adorable.

That's what she remembers. She's like, oh, my God. So he said that basically they would go. Frankie, the kid here who's 18, him and Tony would often go on benders staying up for days on Coke. They'd go crazy. And Frankie likes to rob things, quote, for the thrill of it. Yeah.

That's all. That's why he does it. Just for fun. It's for fun. It's for the excitement. He likes to do Coke and rob things. I think he likes, this is a rob things i think he likes this is a guy who you have to push out of a plane first thing in the morning every morning like get the

get that adrenaline out of him yeah then once he hits the ground he's ready for the day he's got it all out he needs to be like for like 10 000 feet before he launches into his day, I think, or else we're all going to have problems. I don't know why. But yeah, he said they would do that. Tony had a small circle of friends who were allowed to come over to buy drugs. Like I said, this was not like anybody in the world could stop by.

This wasn't like a spot. He wasn't set up like D'Angelo Barksdale in the low rises in The Wire. He's not inviting folks. Yeah, this is a different thing. This is friends. Now, Frankie said that, this is what Frankie says, that Tony and Frankie would drive to the house of the Byers that he didn't know too well. He wouldn't have them over his house.

If it was somebody who he was, you know, Luke Aquitaine's friend of of a friend they would take the coke to the guy or to the girl or whoever but they wouldn't do it at their own house which is good when you have kids around you don't want to just be willy-nilly that's showing some restraint you know what i mean that's don't have strangers over your house to buy coke right when you have three kids in the house you shouldn't have anybody over to buy coke when you have three kids in the house but right strangers especially you should be leaving to do that business absolutely so he also says frankie does that tony made a point of keeping doors and windows locked sometimes to the point of propping chairs against doors people who do coke are paranoid about things coming from the outside so there's a lot of lock checking and people looking and curtain pushing and all that shit going on.

It's not surprising. And then wedging chairs under door handles. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's excessive. I think there. I feel like if someone's going to make that big of an effort, I don't think the chair is going to help. No.

So January 15th, 2007. So this is four days before the house was ablaze. Tina calls her mom in a panic. Okay. The wife here, Tina Mori. She calls her mom. She says, quote, Mom, I'm petrified for Tony. He and Charlie had a big blowout, and Tony told him to stay away from our house.

That's what she tells her mom. blowout and tony told him to stay away from our house that's what she tells her mom uh her mom says that she and tina uh said they didn't know what good it would do to call the police since gilio hadn't done anything illegal he's just kind of a menacing guy who they're now afraid of because he's that kind of guy like i told you he's a scumbag so uh then um yeah, so that's how this all goes. Now, that's the only kind of red flag of trouble for Tina that she says. A few days before that, she tells the other clerk that she's going to run away to Virginia with her kids, calls her mom, says she's scared for her husband, Charlie, you know, whatever. He told Charlie to stay away from the house. So the night of January 18th into the 19th, that is the night of the fire.

Like we said, 3.20 a.m., fire rages. Passers-by call 911. The fire department comes. Once they get the fire out, they enter the place. They enter it. They enter the place. They enter it. And the first thing they find is what looks like a dead body of a younger person.

Oh, no. First thing they find. And everything in here is absolutely charred to fuck, by the way. Nothing here is... It's bad. The residents, they remove everything they can from the residence, and they place everything in every, everything they find or everybody they find in a canvas tarp in the front yard, by the way. So later this morning, as they go through the rubble, they find the charred remains

of Tony and Tina Morey yeah they are on top of each other under a living room sofa is how they find them they were burned so badly that at first the investigators thought that it was one body not two well that's how bad they were yeah yeah well melded together pretty much um the post-mortem here uh the exam and investigation reveals that tony and tina were each shot each shot with a rifle tony shot once through the neck tina shot in the face and in the back good lord a rifle yeah in the face and in the back terrible shit and then burned beyond recognition in the rear first floor family room of the home yeah that's what they found now the youngest boy six-year-old ryan was found downstairs by the front door where he was running trying to get out

he's getting out yeah um but he didn't make it to the front door he got close to the front door before he was bludgeoned with a blunt trauma force to the head. Bludgeoning is what ultimately took him down. Six-year-old. Fuck. Six-year-old. But that didn't kill him. He was just left for dead while he was lying there suffering before

he succumbed to smoke inhalation once the place was set ablaze. So that's how that went. The oldest boy, this is the worst mean i don't know how you can say the worst the oldest boy tony jr 13 years old he fought hard yeah this kid he was a he's a bigger kid and he wasn't fucking he fought he was a kid at balls man he really did he suffered 83 stab wounds what 83 that's how fucking hard this kid fought that's a tough kid a real tough kid kids tough enough to get stabbed that's wild you got a really fucking and a lot of them were

defensive threw his hands into his face and things like that it was a lot of defensive fuck really really bad stuff there and then uh the second the middle boy adam who was only 10 he was sleeping he didn't even know any of this was going on so the younger child tried to run the father and mother are shot and then the younger child tries to run and the old child is stabbed in this brutal attack the youngest the middle son still sleeping that's how i go i sleep like a rock yeah they don't they don't just say okay okay, he's sleeping. Don't worry about him. They ended up going into his room, and he is stabbed in the side of the head as he slept.

Oh, good God. What? The knife, this is rough, everybody. The knife was, this is fucking brutal. I'm sorry about this. The knife was plunged so hard that the tip went into the pillow on the other side. Oh, Christ. Poor kid. about this the knife was plunged so hard that the tip went into the pillow on the other side oh christ that's poor kid yeah imagine the depravity that goes into that act think about what i just described what happened the effort that it takes to do that you'd have to be mad furious or children

yeah children and then say burn it to the fucking ground on top of it. This is as heinous, as fucking disgusting, as shitty as a thing that any human being could do here. Or any human beings. So, yeah, Tony and his wife were each shot, like we said. And the children were stabbed and everything like that, as we said. we said um uh they they the medical examiner and the prosecutors here and the police also they want they put out basically this because they said they wanted people to know basically they want the family to know how hard the kid fought for his life and shit like that too they said this isn't you know the kid fought really hard and that's that's that's just brutal man so um um man the the youngest ryan was stabbed and then beaten, by the way.

They stabbed him and he still ran. And then they beat him to death in the head. That's how it happened. And then and then he was burned. They said he would have probably died from the stab wounds or the bludgeoning. Either one of them were good enough to do it. But the smoke inhalation got him first. And all five of them are dead.

And all five is them are dead. And all five is dead here. The police said they have no leads at this time. They said, quote, we're checking regional hospitals for anyone who might have shown up with burns or lacerations, in particular cuts to their hands. Because that hard a stab wound. Yeah, your hand goes down that knife. Yeah, it's hard to keep your hand on the blade. Yeah, your hand goes down that knife. Yeah, it's hard to keep your hand on the blade.

They say, quote, if anyone knows anyone who all of a sudden has bandaged up hands, cuts, or burns, we'd like to know about it. So it's out there. Then they find, like we said, Tony's car right over there. This was the Maury family car, the purple Kia. Right. We talked about that was burned less than a mile from the home here. And it's about a mile also in between it's basically in between tony's house and charlie gilio's trailer is how it works that's that's equal distance between them so uh right away they'd like to talk to charlie just

because that's the trail onto there and he knows him really well and whether they're suspicious of charlie or not or they just think that charlie might know something about this or know someone that tony was beefing with or whatever because he's his best friend uh you know whatever so a neighbor who knows both of them both charlie and tony maury said quote i've known charlie since i was eight years old there's no way that kid did anything. They were very good friends. Another neighbor said, Tony would come up here every day riding the quads with him. They're very good friends. And then another one said that Charlie was all crying and upset and worried about those kids and what happened to them.

So this neighbor says, no, no, Charlie was all broken up about the whole thing. You got it all wrong if you think Charlie had anything to do with it. He was crying over the kids and everything like that a cousin of of charlie said that charlie was hysterical after the deaths and torn apart and uh the cousin said quote he loved those boys he cried sat in his house last week crying over the loss of his nephews and what he called his brother that's how he described him to me. So they're saying Charlie is just, don't even think about him as a suspect because he is, he's torn apart, boy.

Yeah, well, he's either distraught for loss or distraught because, I mean, how do you not feel some sort of feeling if you're responsible for that? I mean, unless you're like one of these, like Iceman or like, you know, one of these like uh ice man or like you know one of these guys who's just like i don't know i just cut people's heads off and don't feel anything about unless you're like one of those people it's just a thing i do it's just a thing

i do i mean it's not like it's a you know it doesn't define me as a person no i know i also install fences did i tell you that so uh yeah it's it's a very, you really have to have some, I don't even know what the, you have to have no heart or soul whatsoever to say, I'm going to wipe out a family of five kids and I'll burn the house down. Oh, by the way, and those kids call me Uncle Charlie. That would be really a lot. So, 200 leads they're trying to track down here. One of them came from a road check they conducted between midnight and 3 a.m. on the next day.

Basically, they set up a roadblock and checked everybody that was kind of doing a little looky-loo late night. Like, you know, somebody who might want to check it out in the middle of the night and see. Also, the community responds by setting an impromptu memorial up outside the home. They have to build a small wooden fence to do it by, by the way. So, I don't know. See, he should have built a fence. So, not that a guy, I mean, it's a terrible tragedy, obviously. But if he had a fence, it would be easier to have a memorial.

That's all I'm saying. So, now, one of the family members went to the home the day after it was burned and to try to help other family members retrieve any mementos they could. Photographs, anything that wasn't completely charred beyond recognition. There's no way there's anything left, right? They find pieces of things and whatever. So they're getting photographs. They find pieces of things and whatever, so they're getting photographs. And this family member said he was carrying some photos of the Maury children when he met a state trooper who was also hanging out around there.

And he said the trooper said to him, are these the kids on the pictures? And he said they were. And he said the trooper looked at the photos and he says, now I have faces to remember by as I do my job. So they were really, people were fucking pissed about this. And this happens anywhere. It's one thing to kill adults. Especially it's one thing to certain people that do certain things. No one deserves to be obviously killed in their house and all this. But certain lifestyles lend themselves better to certain.

Like the guy last week that we talked about, his lifestyle didn't really lend himself to being murdered that much you know what i mean he was just he was a plumber and you know things like that whatever so sometimes if you throw weekend-long cocaine parties you tend to a different element that you're dealing with at that point so like i said not that anybody deserves anything obviously not even close to it but fuck man that's it happens you end up around shitty people um now the reaction of everybody like i said was uh round the clock investigation you know overtime out the window everything you

want throw it at the throw everything at it the uh one of the police the police spokesman said quote this is certainly not an average homicide. The Maury family were attacked and viciously murdered in their own home. So, you know, that's different. That doesn't happen all the time to be attacked and viciously murdered in your own home. So Sunday, January 21st, they keep this vigil going with all sorts of balloons and notes and all sorts of shit at the home. On the 23rd, rumors start to circulate and police deny reports that were actually in the New York Post, I believe. Post or Daily News, I don't want to say which one.

But the title of the article was Horror House Boys Tortured. That was the title of it article was horror house boys tortured that was the title of it christ so i mean that was they were saying the kids were tortured they want to come the police come out and say the kids were not tortured first of all they weren't i mean you could call that torture but they don't think it was like a torture thing they weren't doing it it wasn't to cause pain they were trying to kill the kids and just weren't that good at it right i mean i'm not trying to encourage anybody but just in in terms of common fucking sense if you were if you were walking around and you killed two people rather efficiently with one particular instrument um you know what i mean and then you went to another instrument and clearly it was not as efficient, obviously, as those were like way crazy, brutal murders,

were the gunshots just very loud sounding and they went, fuck, neighbors are going to hear that? That's all I can think. Like, did you only have three bullets? What the hell was your, what was your plan there? You know, shoot everybody if you're going to do it.

At least put them out of their fucking misery early. Beating children and stabbing upwards of 90 times is crazy yeah i mean let's stab the 10 year old in the head is a weird fucking thing when you could just when you just shot people and it killed them fast like i don't understand why you would do that so um also the police are also denying rumors that are coming out in the papers that the killers had ties to organized crime. I can assure you they didn't. So definitely not. They were still looking at hospitals and everything like that, looking for people with wounds and shit.

The Tony's body was identified through DNA. The children were visually identified and the mother Tina was identified through x-rays and dental records. It was bad stuff. Now Thursday, January 25th, 2007 police report there's no signs of forced entry into the Maury home

and they also have a good idea of what caliber weapon was used to shoot Tina and Manuel. It'll turn out it's a 22 caliber uh rifle that did it uh now january 25th also on that thursday once they find out the caliber uh they talk to someone and they talk to someone from through a very unique way of finding someone to talk to not normal investigative roots really This is a mobile plate hunter. Okay.

What is that? This is a machine that tracks, like a computer that tracks plates that drive by. Oh, okay. Got it. Anything that looks like it's a rectangular, like a license plate. Right. It registers it as it goes by, just to, whatever. buy just to whatever so uh there was a mobile plate hunter installed on the roof of a car police car that was patrolling route 82 near the mori home early on the morning of january 19th

the device takes 20 pictures per second as it goes so a lot and anything of anything it sees that has the shape of a license plate so it really clicks on so make sure you end up getting a clear one so what ended up happening is they do a search for license plates on this system of people that they think might possibly be involved to see if they were around there that night yeah to see how that goes so they find a photo of a nissan exterra with mark serrano's license plate clearly visible in it from that night right at the right time where these murders would have taken place okay clearly they'd like to have a chat with mark yeah about this um they said they searched data from the gps system in the trooper car

determined the picture of serrano's car captured by the mobile plate hunter had been taken about 500 feet from maury's house this isn't like you know five miles down the road 500 feet from the house at 1 14 a.m on january 19th and uh so he couldn't deny being in the vicinity of the house when the shit happened. So this was a problem. They had to bring him in. And it's hard to talk your way out of that one. Yeah.

That's difficult. Well, I just drove by. Wasn't on fire when I left. I don't know. Yeah, I know him. I heard of him. I don't know. So anyway, according to the court documents here later on, Serrano tells the police at first here, he says that the day of the fire, he doesn't know anything about it.

Him and Joe Gillio, or him and John, what did I say his name was? Charlie. Why did I call him Joe and John? Joe, John, Bob, Bill, Frank. Charlie. Jesus Christ. Charlie Gillio here and Mark Serrano had been drinking beer at Gillio's home when they called Tony Morey and asked him to come over and hang out. Serrano tells the cops here that Tony Morey said no thank you. And Serrano said that he then Serrano, left Gillio's trailer and went

home. By the way, if anybody you ever think knowing in high school that guy's going to live in a trailer when he's 30, that's exactly what you would think, and we were all fucking right. That's amazing, by the way. I just have to say that. To see the future like that is pretty prescient when you're 16.

So, in a second statement, given the next day uh serrano tells police that he and gilio called tony maury late night to find out if he would sell them some coke not to come and hang out uh he said that tony maury told him he didn't have any coke so then three days later serrano talks to the cops again and uh this time he says he and gilio bought cocaine on the night of the 18th from a guy in beacon which as one does right so they went to beacon and then gilio later called uh tony mori asking for more cocaine so he said this was just like a secondary you know how it goes with coke yeah one batch isn't enough they're always going back for

more so uh they said over the next three days serrano quote offered many different accounts of the night of january 18th and morning of the 19th during one conversation serrano said he drove gilio to the maury home then saw the house was on fire he also told police he'd seen gilio carrying a sawed-off 22 rifle when he dropped him off at the maury home sawed-off 22 that's a bizarre weapon that's some white trash shit right there as i have a 22 rifle how do i make it cool and mobile yeah i'll sell it off and make it inaccurate and weak isn't that the benefit of a 22 is its accuracy right so the 20 the shotgun that you saw down is it looks menacing but it also sprays more exactly yeah it's yeah if you're in an enclosed room you can get everybody right a bank robbery or something but this makes very little sense

except for i sawed it off cool right look at that all right so i heard sawed off sounds scary it sounds good right so um also um they find and we'll find out how they find it but they will find uh dna evidence of blood stains found on serrano's clothing and inside his car that came from some of the victims not good not a good thing here so uh under questioning by his attorney uh or i'm sorry by the police here um you know he just says i've been drinking beer we were snorting just drinking and snorting coke that's all we were doing he said that he and gilio um finally says this is what happened. He and Gillio were sitting in his Nissan Xterra in the parking lot of a convenience store on Route 82. Yeah.

Okay. Class. Class. And as a teenager, done this many times, but I wasn't 33 is the good part. But as a teenager, you'd meet up at a convenience store parking lot hoping to meet a drug dealer. That's how this works, which've done like i said plenty of times or been the on the other end of it so in order they were trying to buy weed he says at 10 30 that night all right so they're waiting on a guy waiting on him finally they wait in about 10 30

p.m gilio says fuck it let's go to tony's house and just get some coke which is a big escalation from we're waiting for an eighth of weed so let's just go get some coke i guess it's getting late they're getting tired i don't know man so serrano says that he drove south on route 82 parked his suv in the parking lot of gino's restaurant which was right next door to the property there it's a different restaurant now i don't know what the fuck it is but it was gino's at the time and um and he watched gilio go inside the maury home he says he waited about 10 minutes about 10 minutes after this after waiting serrano says he opened the front he left the car went to the front door opened the door and saw charlie gilio talking to tony maury uh in the kitchen he says quote they were talking about going out to get cocaine, but Tony said he needed to check with Tina.

He needed to check with his wife to see if it was cool to go out and get coke on a Thursday night. Right. You know, anybody who's married would understand that anyway. Right. I don't know if the wife's going to be cool with me going on a coke run on a work night. You know what I mean? I got fences to install tomorrow. She's not going to be cool with me going on a coke run on a work night. You know what I mean? I got fences to install tomorrow. She's not going to be thrilled with this.

We got three kids. We got three kids. Yeah, that's a lot for a Thursday night coke run. So he said at this point that Tina said no. She didn't want Tony to leave, which, yeah, obviously. And the conversation went into the living room. And this is what serrano says after that quote tony looked at charlie and then charlie pulls this 22 from inside his sweatshirt he put

the barrel straight up to tony's face and fired the gun tony spun around and fell on his back now he ended up shooting him in the neck but if you put it to his face and he moved that's a very so that makes sense drops yep exactly he said that serrano then heard tina mori obviously the wife screamed and said quote what did you just do which is pretty clear um she he said she just yelled that at charlie serrano says quote she jumped up and pushed charlie and he raised the gun and fired it at her face jesus christ um quote she ran to the door and charlie fires he shot her in the back so he hit her in the face and she ran away she ran away so then he shot her in the back and dropped her like that um so he said serrano said that he began to back out of the room at this point. He's like, I was all freaked out. You know how it is.

He said, quote, I was yelling. What the hell just happened? He said, Gillio, quote, tried to calm me down, telling me not to worry about it. But he left the house and drove to his home about a mile away. Okay. So Serrano says he ran away, got in his car, drove away right to his house. He said he was terrified and he ran in the front door, locked the front door behind him, got undressed and snorted some cocaine. Yes, I said those things in that article. I'm watching you and the look on your face.

You're like, okay, he goes in. He undressed. That means he's going to put different clothes on maybe. That's a timeline. Nope, just naked He goes in. He takes, he undressed. So that means he's going to put different clothes on maybe. That's a timeline. Nope. Just naked doing some coke. After murder. Yeah.

Fucking. Why? Oh, man. So, yeah. So he's sitting there undressed, snorting some coke, which is what I do when I need to calm down. Clearly. After about two hours, he said he decided to go back to the maury house which if you okay let's say this happened you went with your friend to buy some coke and you popped in

the door and he's shooting everybody in the house and you ran away would you go back two hours just later just to check it out a bit or would you like fucking move to Arkansas and never be heard from again and change your name? Like, what are you doing? I'm sorry. So anyway, he says that, you know, he did that. They asked him, well, what did you see? And he said, I made my way up the stairs looking for Charlie. He said he looked into an upstairs bedroom that he knew was used by Tony and Tina. And then he said he smelt a strong odor of fresh blood

in another bedroom yeah that shit stinks man oh james that stuff smells so terrible you know there's a lot like that yeah yeah but a strong odor of fresh blood is not something we hear often in these descriptions he says quote i noticed the older son on the floor i shook his leg to wake him up and noticed i was standing in blood he was stabbed 83 times yeah don't think you wouldn't notice that shit you're you're wading through that my friend yeah that shit is literally splashing that's ridiculous um and i noticed i was standing in blood he said then he ran downstairs slipping in a pool of blood and bracing his blood-stained palm on the wall because that's the other reason they found a

fucking they found a partial bloody palm print on a little tiny unburned piece of drywall which is god damn remarkable yeah um he said that at that point he looked up all freaked out of course everybody's dead everything's going on he looked up only all freaked out, of course. Everybody's dead. Everything's going on. He looked up only to find Charlie Gillio carrying a gasoline can. Okay, that's what he sees. He said then he went outside where he saw Gillio jump into Tony's car. He said after watching Gillio set the car on fire a few minutes later, which was also like a half a mile away. Right.

a few minutes later, which was also like a half a mile away. He says that he drove Gillio home and went home himself and told his employee, called in to work. He went home and called in the Royal Carding at fucking three o'clock in the morning. You know, the trash

is going to have to wait, you guys. I can't do it. It's like, you know what? Well, I guess if you're a garbage man, you have to call in super early because that shit's, you know, yeah gotta be there 5 a.m 3 a.m they're already cranking the guy's like what you're not coming in jesus christ we're busy as shit down here come on he's not not coming in to do to take out the trash and he says that instead he stayed home to try to wash the blood off his clothes, you know, because he'd been slipping and sliding and everything like that. You know, that goes here.

Yeah. So the following afternoon, he said that Gillio asked him to drive, asked him to drive to Duchess Park Lake. Oh, my God. Duchess Park. Oh, Jesus Christ. Duchess Park is a neighborhood of houses behind what was the A&P Future Store back in the 90s, which was this terrible supermarket. Anyway, this neighborhood had some nice pockets of the newer areas of it and then some shitty older pockets. And basically, there was a list of about probably 40 of us where if we were seen anywhere in there, we were getting pulled over and searched.

And I've been pulled over and searched no less than 25 times in Dutchess Park. It's just it was happening. Like just not even a you could be going 10 miles an hour, stopping 10 and two. You're getting pulled over and searched. Not even do you have anything on you? Just get out of the car and start tearing it apart. So anyway, Dutchess Park,uchess park lake uh asked him there he said once they got to the lake he said that he uh that gilio got out of the car near the lake carrying

something under a leather jacket he said he drove around the block picked gilio up again and then later he also threw some of his bloodstained clothes in the lake he was like well that seemed like a good place to do that great place to put it absolutely so the police based on what he said went to the lake and found the 22 uh caliber rifle a bloodstained knife and serrano's bloody clothes while they searched the lake so they have all sorts of evidence um now the only thing they have though is basically all this physical evidence tied to serrano and him saying that charlie gilio did all of it right that's basically what they have they have no physical evidence of charlie gilio whatsoever they've got him they've got they've

got serrano saying he was there but there's no they have serrano's palm print blood from the victims or is in is in his car and blood is on his clothes and he knew where the knife and gun were right so that's a that's a tough one but uh he uh they end up arresting him obviously serrano and um you know he had done all these different interviews and they were all different all of his fucking stories were different uh he has no criminal record at the time none that's the thing those kids at the time that i remember them they weren't into drugs or doing anything like you know illegal because they were pussies in high school so i don't know what they became of later

but apparently this and gilio it said had been in the paper they say had been arrested a few times for minor offenses which describes exactly what I would have probably said. A bunch of little shit. I bet he's got a DUI and a fucking possession of this. You know what I mean? That kind of guy. So they arrest Serrano, and they arrest Charlie Gillio as well.

They're each charged with a single count of second-degree murder to start with. This is the death of Tony. That's where they just to be able to keep them that's a good start good start the police say quote we do not believe this was a random act we believe that we have two people who are responsible for it and they're currently behind bars they said they have forensic evidence and statements made by both of them so they're pretty confident about this they go to charlie gilio's home uh which is a trailer and they search it now charlie says i'm innocent yeah this is crazy i'm a good guy i'm innocent

he denied ever going to the residence that night he said quote i was never at tony's house that night that's what he tells the police when they pick him up. I don't know what you're talking about. This is true. He says, quote, I didn't do it. Listen to this line. This is a classic. I didn't do it, but if I did, I don't. And he said it very specifically because this comes up later. All right, OJ. I don't recollect it.

Recollect. Recollect. Not recollect. I don't recollect it, which that's perfect, honestly. I didn't do it, but if I did, I don't recollect i don't recollect it which that's perfect honestly i didn't do it but if i did i don't recollect it what the fuck does that mean oh john jay high school oh thanks john this is what i mean great job everybody good job all around john jay high school wonderful a 30 fucking two-year-old man saying recollect in a police interview fighting for his life he's saying recollect like a fucking idiot um so they're

being held without bail they're uh going to appear in court serrano also faces the charge of first degree robbery and uh so yeah that's how they do that they're uh accused of the killings they said quote these two individuals acted together and they said it would be difficult to say which one had the larger role. Sure. I'd say when a kid gets stabbed so hard that the knife goes through his head into a pillow, it really doesn't matter which one did what. I don't care who held this, and I don't care who packed shit and who moved shit, or who held shit and who moved shit. If you held it or moved it, you're still just just as responsible you're half the business at that point so don't care um the police they say the police received information that tina mori told a lot of people that she was very scared of

charlie gilio she was worried he'd come over to the house and do something and sadly she was right that's what the police or the prosecutor said here um when they searched gilio's trailer uh it's less than two miles from tony's home here uh gilio is guess his profession jimmy um homeless jobless unemployed Yeah. What's his trade? Jesus Christ. I don't know. You know. Yeah.

Do I? You know what he is. You're disgusting. I don't. He's a roofer, Jimmy. The fucking sun and the tar. Yeah. And everything.

And I'm sure there's good roofers and nice people out here. That's a hard goddamn job, but they'll hire anybody to do it. I've known like three roofers in my life and they were all crackheads. Not saying all roofers are crackheads, but the only three I've known were crackheads. And now this one too, you can add to the list of roofie crackheads. So yeah, they say he lived there for about a year and a half. Gilio has a three-year-old son as well. So, you know, got to reproduce there.

It's a white trailer with light green trim. Great. They described it in the paper while it's being searched as a white trailer with light green trim surrounded by state police vehicles. Sounds like the kind. That's the one. Yeah. It comes with that, right? I feel like.

Now, if you buy this model, you're going to get twice a year surrounded by state police vehicles. Once a year, they're going to bring black vans as well that they can hide and put evidence in. It's pretty exciting. You're going to like it. Now, post-arrest, a Gillio relative here, and most more accurately gilio's father charles gilio uh also here he says that uh he uh uh he doesn't think that he did it and all this sort of thing um but other people come out and say that gilio talked about wanting to kill tony mori and burn his house down in the last couple months before it happened and uh so they go back and forth members of the uh Gillio family one particular member does think he did it that's her his cousin Dorothy Gillio she told police and later a jury that she

believed that Charlie had committed the crime she said she spoke to him several times follow in the following days after January 19th, 2007. And she said, quote, he knew about things about the crime that were not said in the newspaper. So she said that Charlie often bought cocaine from Tony. But in the summer and fall of 2006, her cousin was often angry with Tony because he would not give him drugs on credit. So he wanted he said you gotta have cash yeah and he was like how fucking dare he make me pay for coke i gotta pay up front i can't what jesus you mean i gotta buy it good god he said she recalled him saying quote i'm going to kill that fuck and go down there and burn his fucking house down. So, I mean, that's pretty specific, I would say.

Yeah. She also said she'd been a friend of Tina's, you know, Tony's wife who was murdered here, and that when she heard the radio news reports about the fire, she drove from her home in Dover Plains to the Maury residence, where she spoke with police and firefighters briefly. in Dover Plains to the Maury residence where she spoke with police and firefighters briefly. Then she drove to Charlie Gillio's

mobile home about a mile and a half away. She said when she got there, Serrano was over there visiting Gillio. And shortly after they arrived, they both began drinking beer and snorting coke. Hell yeah. As they do. Yeah. So Serrano's

story of being horrified by all of this kind of doesn't really hold water when you are hanging out there two days later snorting coke with the guy right who you were so taken aback by you had the vapors over him murdering children yeah the fuck out of here so uh jesus christ she said that charlie and serrano said they believe the family may have been killed by a pair of drug dealers who they said had recently jumped tony mori because he owed them money for cocaine that was the it's the oj defense i think it was drug dealers they owe them for coke you know how they are uh two days later she said she returned to the trailer and during a conversation about the murders, she said Charlie said he'd heard that Tony had been shot in the neck.

And that hadn't been out yet in the paper. And she said that her cousin said, quote, I bet that I bet he felt that. I bet that hurt. You think now she says that she also because later on under she'll testify and under cross examination she also says that she has been admitted to the mental hospital with psychiatric problems recently uh which doesn't change anything no she says they asked her why she said quote i shot a gun off in my house i went over the edge i needed help i was depressed i lost my family my friends indoors in your own house.

Oh, boy. I don't know if that's a, I was going to shoot myself, change my mind at the last second. Or if that's, I don't know what it is. But you're depressed and, you know, a bunch of your friends just got wiped out with their kids. And you think your cousin did it. And that'll make you a little weird, I think. That'll make you loopy. That'll change your life, yeah.

Kind of. So the Gillio family, though, not having this at all. His mom, Charlie's mom, very mad at the police. Really? Very mad. She said, I am upset and I'm angry at what my son has been put through. This is an innocent person. Very upset.

Are you also pissed? She's very mad. Yeah. Are you furious, too She's very mad. Yeah. Are you furious, too? I think she's... No, I don't think so at all. She's only angry at what's been going on. She's upset and she's angry.

I think that's where she draws the line. All right. I mean, she's not unreasonable. Let's put it that way. She's not trying to be a jerk here. She's just upset and angry. I like that she's throwing synonyms for the same emotion. I'm upset.

I'm angry. I'm furious. I'm pissed off. I feel good about this. I'm mad. I'm pissed. I've had it up to here. I'm mad as hell and I ain't going to take it anymore. So, Gillio Sr., his dad, Charlie's dad, said he had not had a good night's sleep or even

enjoyed a meal since his son was arrested. Oh, I'm sorry. How do you think the parents of the family have been murdered? Field, you fucking jerk. Wow. I bet. I know. I bet the parents of them.

Yeah, their kids and grandkids have been killed. I bet they're pretty upset, too. I mean, yeah, he says just going to work every day is hard, said the elder Gillio, who. Oh, great. Is also employed by Royal Carding. They're going to fucking, no one's ever going to pick my garbage up again. I'm fucking myself so bad. Dude, I'm going to be, you don't understand. I'm going to have some crazy fucking, this is bad.

Yeah. I don't know what I'm doing here. What am I doing? Why am I doing this? I'm just putting myself up for bullshit. Yeah. I don't even care. Fuck it.

I'm going to do it anyway. They deserve it. Fuck them. By the way, don't go to the Red Oaks Mill Liquor. Don't go to that liquor store if you're in the area. Well, I walked in there to get a bottle of wine to celebrate all of our shit finally arriving after four fucking weeks. And the only thing I could hear was some guy behind the counter and some other guy exchanging

insane conspiracy theories. Fantastic. Of a level that I can't eat. I'm not talking about like, well, I mean, I heard. No, not that. I'm talking about what the fuck are you talking about? And I called the guy fucking ridiculous. Why did you do that?

Why don't you play into it? I can't. You guys are three months behind. Haven't you heard about the spiders that are coming? I actually thought about it, but this guy would then be telling other people who would actually believe it. Good. Because the shit he was saying was wild.

I mean, it was, I mean, I'll look for shit to laugh at that people are saying, and this was, outside of that, I don't know where he heard this shit. It was crazy. He should have made it worse worse tom hanks doesn't even drink the blood anymore he's freebasing it you guys are way behind jesus christ don't you know anything listen hillary used to suck the blood right from the children's necks but then you know obviously no it wasn't even that stuff it was which is fucking out of the realm of crazy crazy. But it was like it was passed over that rainbow and fucking three down the line. It was wild, dude. And I made it worse.

Tom Hanks converted Judaism just to become a mohel to suck the blood out of infants. Cox, you know, that orthodox. So, yeah, by the way, that was a practice for a long time. I think it was. Stop that now. And that was not that wasn't an andrew jackson moment he was just saying that was just fun they've come to terms with that recently too maybe we shouldn't do that yeah so uh yeah the elder gilio said that i really don't eat that much anymore this whole thing's taking my appetite away he's very concerned with his food consumption this guy three different times he's mentioning

how this is affecting his food. I haven't eaten. I haven't eaten a good meal. I'm starving. Can you see me? I'm wasting away. I've lost weight. I had a plate of cavatelli last night.

I looked at it. I said, I'm not eating this. Maybe one meatball, but nothing more. I'm just not having any more. I'm so hungry, but I can't eat. He says also, I can't sleep. I'm up and down all night. He's having problems.

Poor bastard. Yeah. Can't get. I'm up and down all night. He's having problems. Poor bastard. Yeah. Can't get a wink. Can't get a nod. That's what I mean. You know, can't get nothing. And then he says that the comments describing the two accused as monsters, he says, quote, they don't know Charlie.

They don't know us. The way I was brought up, you don't talk bad about someone unless you know the facts i'm upset about what they put my son through very upset he says he could never understand how a grand jury could have indicted his son without the benefit of any physical evidence blood fingerprints or trace evidence linking him to the crime he says quote nobody can walk away from a crime like that without carrying something with them he said he discounted uh any kind of testimony he said he especially discounts dorothy the cousin she's fucking nuts he says literally he says he says that uh uh that uh uh also discounts dorothy and other inmates who gilio told about the crime in

detail stuff that wasn't in the paper she said that he said well they could all have uh you know motives to implicate my son and he says that dorothy quote has always been a little unreliable a little off so you know she's a cousin what do you want everyone's got that cousin you know the cousin is a little unreliable a little off one that murders a family and burns the house down there's all these different cousins everyone has somewhere you got an hvac cousin he said uh he added that she may have been mad at his son charlie here for providing police with information that had led to the arrest of one of her brothers another gilio darren gilio on a robbery case a few years ago i'm telling you it runs deep jimmy yeah as for the jailhouse witnesses he said he believed inmates could be induced to lie in exchange for lighter sentences.

He said anyone will say anything if certain deals are offered. He means coerced. Yeah, he didn't. Yeah. He doesn't mean induced. Induced. Yeah, he's so induced. Yeah.

They can produce anything they want. I'm telling you it'll do it. So they... They can concluse they can recluse anything another relative said that charlie was definitely the wrong person he spent the whole week crying uh she said quote i'm worried about my family's safety in my opinion they got the wrong person she says that that, quote, he was hysterical. He loved those boys. He cried.

He sat in his house crying, all that. I know my cousin and I know he didn't do this. God damn it. So, yeah, they said they've been friends for a long time. I just don't understand it. I just know my cousin is incapable of this. They said Charlie's cooperating with police. This is ridiculous.

Charlie has so many people who love him and are standing by him we know he didn't do this by the way is the death penalty on the table because if there's ever a death penalty case i would say this is pretty good yeah it's pretty pretty good standard no in 2004 uh the the supreme court new york state supreme court declared death penalty unconstitutional at the time so they got rid of it then so um wouldn't be bad to you'd sure like to punch one of them in the side of the head i'll tell you that much it just makes me yeah or so it makes me so mad that i had the opportunity jimmy yeah you really blew it tried to fucking fight this kid was like come on motherfucker just wouldn't do it your plan didn't come together, that's all. Oh, God damn it.

Fuck. Maybe it could have avoided this, that's all I know. Or made it worse, I'm not sure. So, during the trial that's going to come up here, Giglio's going to say, I was just drinking beer and snorting coke that night, I don't know shit. Right.

And Serrano's got his story. Serrano will testify at both trials here. So, he testifies in his own trial serrano does that he watched gilio shoot the first story he watched everything happen slipping in blood terrified of the whole deal that's what serrano fucking gets uh that's what they uh put on him so that's what he says december 4 2007 the verdict for him comes in he is found guilty of 31 counts oh my guilty first and second degree murder and 10 other charges like perjury conspiracy arson robbery shit like that 30 that's the most charges anybody on this show it's 20 counts of murder yeah like all together it's a lot It's 20 counts of murder total, like all together. That's a lot.

31 counts of first and second degree murder. I'm sorry. Then 10 more. So it's 41 counts altogether. He's acquitted of one thing. It's 41 of 42 charges he's put on. Now, the Giglio trial is pretty interesting here. 20 charges of first degree murder he is charged with.

Okay. 11 charges of second degree murder. Two charges of third-degree murder he is charged with, okay? 11 charges of second-degree murder, two charges of third-degree arson, six charges of first-degree robbery, one charge of fourth-degree conspiracy, one charge of second-degree perjury, one charge of fifth-degree conspiracy. Okay.

That's the charges, which is a fuckload. Serrano, he testifies. He said the whole story. I sawilio do this he said they went there or you know joe won or they they wanted to rob him of cocaine and money and blah blah blah under cross-examination serrano said that he lied numerous times to the police about his whereabouts and all this sort of thing they said quote the bloody palm print was yours he says yes they said you because the gun belonged to serrano by the way the 22 it's his gun uh your gun killed these people he said yes he said you knew tony and tina were dead he said yes and they said did

you call the police and he said no so there's that um serrano also said that he may have helped Serrano also said that he may have helped Gillio kill Tony Mori and prevented Ryan from fleeing the house. So under cross-examination, he says, I might have blocked the kid from running out of the door. Gross. But only so Charlie could bludgeon him to death. I'm not a monster, obviously. Jesus Christ. I mean, I didn't kill him.

I just, you know, prevented his escape. Yeah, he said that he also hasn't been promised any break in exchange for his own testimony uh which is kind of bullshit as we'll find out so uh other witnesses here described uh were described by the prosecution as quote people you wouldn't want to have lunch with so prison people here like jail inmates they included a bunch of convicted criminals that said they'd spoke to gilio in jail and to serrano who you know told them all this type of shit duchess county jail inmate one guy jack anglevich told the jury that serrano told him on the eve of the verdict of his trial that he was guilty but gilio was not so he said i did it not not gilio so he uh he also said that serrano had told him someone else had been with him when he went to the maury home but he wouldn't give any names i don't believe

any of that so uh asked by the prosecutor why he waited nearly two months to tell anyone he said that i didn't want to get involved yeah you know i don't know this is myself this shit's crazy it's a lot to do i had to get dressed and come here. It's too much. I could be doing push-ups right now against my cot. Wouldn't that be much more rewarding than this? So state police investigator here told the jury that he took Gilio's clothes from him after he was taken into custody and said that Gilio said, quote, I didn't do it, but if I i did i don't recollect it yeah he said he remembers gilio's exact words because he can't he pronounced the word recollect as recollect so he remembered that they all you know he was like probably making fun of him to the other cops i'm sure this fucking idiot just

said he didn't recollect anything dipshit he's guilty Like, let's just arrest him. I'm sure he's dumb enough to be guilty. So, Gilio testifies on his own behalf. He said him and Tony have been friends since childhood, and while they sometimes had their differences, they said they were brothers. He said they're like brothers. He faced the jury here. They said, did you do it? He replied, absolutely not.

He said, did you stab the Maury kids? He said, no way. Absolutely not. He said that, Gileo said that he was drinking beer and snorting cocaine with Serrano for several hours on the night of the 18th. He admitted he initially lied to police about some of his whereabouts that night. He said that he told state police investigators a few hours after the murders he never left his home that night uh he later acknowledged that he had gone to beacon with his four-year-old son kenny and serrano to buy cocaine with oh my god so he took

his kid on a coke run at 11 o'clock at night that's nice oh god so uh asked by uh the the lawyer here why he had why he lied gilio said he didn't want authorities to know that he took his son with him to buy drugs he said i didn't want the cops or child protective services to know i was using coke i thought they might come and take my kid away from me yeah so this is a murder charge you can you know like you can deal with that later you can get your kid back or whatever but if someone's accusing you of murder you're gonna fucking clear all that up first and then be like now i'll go get my kid back can't get him from prison he said that after he and uh his son and serrano returned to his home after getting the coke serrano left the house about two hours later to buy more from the same guy and beacon g Giglio said Serrano returned with the Coke, but told him he had to leave and didn't say why.

Soon after Serrano left, Giglio says that he locked his doors and went to sleep on his couch. He's like, I don't know where he went. I'm going to sleep here. He then cross-examination came and they were like, OK, that sounds like a bullshit story. Let's get into this. examination came and they were like okay that sounds like a bullshit story let's get into this so they uh get into what the prosecutor says that uh gilio told the prosecutor he tried several times to call tony when he got up on january 19th uh after one of his brothers told him about the murders in the fire he's like i didn't believe it so i tried to call him and he said he used

the direct connect feature on his next tell cell phone to try and reach him if there's ever been a more 2007 fucking alibi that's the one right there holy shit like that's the most 2007 alibi ever either that or i had to stay home because i was waiting for a dvd from netflix that's the only other thing that would be more 2007 answering my messages my messages on MySpace. Yeah, I'm sorry. I was trying to build my friends list. I was figuring out my top nine. I couldn't get it. This next

tell is hanging me over until I can get that new Motorola Razr. No, I'm saving. He said, I just got a long beep like Tony's phone had been disconnected. Asked by the prosecutor if he tried to call Tony or Tina on their home phone or on either of their cell phones, he said he hadn't. And the guy said, quote, this man was your best friend

and you didn't once try to call his house or anything like that? What do you think he said? I'll give you a guess of what Gillio's reply was. You didn't try calling his house? He doesn't have a house phone. No, or cell phones. No, he didn't try to call. All he did was a next tell and he's like i don't know a beep so i said fuck it and they were like he's your best friend you heard he was murdered you didn't try to call him or his wife yeah what do you think gilio said why he didn't do that i didn't believe

it quote i didn't have their numbers i don't have their phone number don't have their phone number and i have no no way of finding it ever either i'm sure no way of finding it i never used them right she'd have it in there somewhere we only cv radio each other yeah he said it was our long lost dream to be truckers so we just break or breaker each other over the years i've been building the world's longest string right i got a can set up now it's a corn can he got a green bean can yeah it's a mile and a half long between our two houses i don't really need modern technology when i have cans and string so he said the prosecutor said you guys were like brothers and you didn't have his home phone number. And said Gillio became agitated and interrupted several times and they went back and forth. And he said the prosecutor asked him why he told police Serrano had called him at 1.30 a.m.

to say he had arrived safely at his home. And he said, quote, Mark, getting home at 1.30 has nothing to do with you and Kenny and CPS, does it? And Gillio said no. So he got caught in a whole bunch of all this shit yeah the verdict here the jury deliberates for 37 hours over four and a half days which is that's a rough one man yeah that's a lot uh they come back though uh guilty on 41 of 42 counts that's a lot one of the second degree murder counts, both of them were acquitted on. I don't know how that worked.

And I think that was because you can't say that you... Basically, there was the kid who died when he would have died from blunt force trauma, stabbing, or smoke inhalation. That's what it was. You can't stick who did worst yeah yeah but not the exactly you can't tell what came first uh when the guilty verdict was read tina's mother arlene cortez uh you know had a big gasp and was crying and everything like that and gilio started crying as well and as he was escorted away, he said, quote, I didn't do this. Okay. He shouted, he didn't do this to the family there.

Now, the reaction by everybody, they said, with a crime like this, so many deaths in the manner of those deaths, I can't imagine asking for, I can't imagine anything other than the maximum, is what the prosecutor said. He's going to be asking for the maximum in sentencing. He says, I'm grateful but not surprised by the length of the verdicts that they took. It took incredible discipline to consider all the charges. And obviously, I agree with the results.

A bunch of people from the area said they feel better now and, you know, feels a little better. We didn't know if we had like a mass murder going around or what. And it turns out it was just a couple of coked up scumbags. People feel a little bit better by knowing that so um yeah uh now for uh sentencing the the family uh kohler's that's tina's family uh the mother says quote my only daughter and the only grandchildren were my heritage and my future they meant everything to me i'll never get to see manual adam and ryan grow up i'll never have the opportunity opportunity to see Tina become a grandparent, a role I cherished. I'll never be able to see any of them.

I'll never be able to speak to them again. All that's left is a gaping hole in what was once my family. That's fucking heartbreaking and absolutely true. She said, quote, I know Tina and the boys and Tony are all in heaven now. Tina was my number one angel when she was on Earth. Now she's really an angel. Her aunt also spoke. She said, my daughter grew up with Tina.

My grandson played with the Maury boys. Now the family is gone. There's no more birthdays, no more christmases the prosecutor talked specifically about the 13 year old son and his defense wounds and the fight he put up and how seven stab wounds yeah how you had to really want that to get that done and he said quote i pictured that 13 year old boy trying to defend himself and that was the most terror i could think of no sentence given to mr gilio will cause him that kind of terror and so he says he rarely asks a judge for the maximum sentence but he was convinced it was the proper thing to do in this case he said the legislature

sets a maximum sentence for a reason every case is different and i always ask myself if there's a reason the maximum isn't appropriate this time time, I came up with no reason. Gilios, though, when they said during sentencing, what do you have to say for himself? He said, same as he said through the trial, he was never at their house on the day of the murders, maintained his innocence. He said, quote, I honestly had nothing to do with this crime. He said, I did not do this to the Maury family. I loved them with all my heart. The lawyer said he believed his client was innocent and he planned to appeal the verdict. And yeah, the judge has a different opinion.

He says that he was touched particularly by a letter he received from one of the Maury family relatives. He said that the author of the letter said that he hoped every night before you go to bed addressing gilio that you think of the boys and gilio said there isn't a night i don't think of them so he's trying to get out of a little bit there so the judge says quote i can't think of anything else that has affected the public here here were three young kids whose lives were just snuffed out and why because of a white powder it's hard to decipher the brutality and viciousness of this assault in 40 years i've never seen anything like it oh boy you don't want to hear that from a judge Because of a white powder, it's hard to decipher the brutality and viciousness of this assault. In 40 years, I've never seen anything like it.

Oh, boy. You don't want to hear that from a judge. Yeah, he says that. Then he says, you, sir, may fuck off life without parole. No chance. Fucked for Gileo here. The charges were convicted 20 counts of first degree murder which is five consecutive terms of life without parole second degree murder 10 counts 25 years to life for each one yeah two counts third degree arson 5 to 15 years in prison six counts of robbery which is 25 years

in prison one count of fourth degree conspiracy which is like a year and change to four years one count of perjury year and change to four years and fifth degree conspiracy which is like a year and change to four years one count of perjury here and change to four years and fifth degree conspiracy which is one year as well he's got quite a lot uh going on there so uh the serrano sentencing they get to him he gets a little bit different you sir may fuck off 50 years to life in prison okay which i'm sorry but they should mirror each other either mirror or the other way around yeah either one because i mean i what why he's got the most evidence against him also with what happened to that family anybody walking out of that house that had anything to do with that should all get the same thing that's what i'm saying they said that they weren't going to give him any break in

sentencing yeah but i'm not positive that the prosecutor asked for the maximum so he didn't ask to take it easy on him but he also didn't say hey judge bang this motherfucker good for me which is what he did with gilio so it's a little different. Tina Morey's mother said, I'm happy with the sentence, but that doesn't mean I've got closure. I didn't get to say goodbye. I didn't get to kiss them goodbye. That was taken away from me. I'm glad the jurors saw through all of Gileo's denials

and found him guilty, and obviously the judge agreed with them. I'm glad we're at the point where we're just about done with the legal chapter of this story. The Gileo family said they were praying an appeals court would grant their son a new trial and he would eventually be exonerated. They said, quote, Mark Serrano is framing my boy and I don't know why. I don't know.

Asked if anyone, they said, do you know of any evidence that hasn't come out that could possibly help your son? And he said, you mean new clues? No, I wish I did. Not good. possibly help your son and he said you mean new clues no i wish i did not good now on this story i found something that uh there was comments on this on a couple of these sites oh boy by the way i have to thank the poughkeepsie journal for a lot of their coverage on this the newspaper here's a lot of the details that really nobody else had came out of the poughkeepsie journal

also this was new york times New York Post, Daily News. It was all over the place. So one particular commenter here said about, this was on October 5th, 2018, somebody said that they deserved what they got, the killers, obviously. Right. He said, quote, agree, and Charles Gillio was always a bull, a shit, always a piece of shit bully since he was a kid, loved picking on younger kids and selling drugs behind the Duchess Mall near the old movies and dream machine entrance, which is fucking true.

Actually, he's been an evil little bastard since childhood. Back in 2008. Sadly, I was not shocked to hear what he did. That goes for pretty much everybody around here that knew him. They were like, oh, yeah, that fits. Yep, okay. I expected he'd go to jail for something dumber or whatever, not something that vicious. But wow, not surprised.

So, Gillio right now is in Clinton. That's the prison he's in, which is a tough prison, boy. Good luck for you. He is in prison there. It says that it's all sorts of first-degree murder, and his earliest release date is life, so he's fucked. Never. He's going to die in there.

Mark Serrano, on the other hand, though, he's at Auburn right now, and he looks like will be eligible for parole. Earliest release date, Jimmy? 2046. January 23rd, 2057. I was close. So he's got quite a while. If he gets out, he's going to be almost 80. The world's going to be much different.

Yeah, can you imagine that? Somebody give me a phone. I've got to make a walkie-talkie. A what now? I need to next tail direct somebody what the fuck is a next tell so now the house by the way where this happened uh the landlord pretty much right after they took all the evidence out was given permission to demolish the remains and raise the whole thing it currently has two houses on this property oh like a duplex i get like two different houses six bedrooms three baths 3409 square feet worth of house two separate two separate houses though so it could be three and one and two and

uh the the zestimate is quote is uh4,569 for the whole shebang. Yeah, it's a new place. It says, two homes, one lot, close to all. Great opportunity for extended family investment or live in one and rent the other to help pay your mortgage. Move-in ready, home one, built 2008. Yeah. Yeah. Built in 2008.

home one built 2008 yeah yeah built in 2008 after this shit yeah offers 2161 finished square feet three bedrooms two baths full basement updates include all this different shit um yeah each home has its own driveway and lot may be subdivided uh yeah this from what i heard i remember asking my brother about this a couple years ago and he like, they had house was like vacant for a long time. And like, they don't have an easy time. Someone's in it now, or it's at least sold now. But I guess it was not an easy sell for a long time. I'm sure it's the house where that family was murdered and burned to the ground. It's not exactly a, oh, you live where?

Oh, where the family was murdered and all the kids were stabbed to death and the thing was burned to the fucking ground. Oh, yeah. I hear that's nice now. I hear they put fucking tile floors in there. Yeah, that's beautiful. I hear there's marble countertops now. That's good. Open floor plan?

I've heard of it. Oh, beautiful. Wow. They put a pool in there? Holy shit. Jesus H. Christ. What a fucking thing. So that, everybody, is Fishkill new york and that is uh that's the murder that

i've been talking about for a while of about doing my hometown murder like i said it's a pretty fucking that was a mess man yeah that's the kind of shit that happens here so hopefully that happens everywhere was the whole goddamn point of what i was trying to tell everybody was who cares don't get pissy because shit happens everywhere and we're gonna make fun of it no matter where the fuck it is so there you go enjoy and if you did enjoy that you should tell us about it and tell the world about it get on apple podcast that purple icon and let us know that you like the show five stars would mean the world and it doesn't matter what you say because it's not for our egos. Say something silly. Do your best horse pun. We'll be fine. Oh, that's good.

There you go. Get your best horse joke from last week and put it up there and do it yourself. Or say what you used to smoke weed behind. That could help too. Your mom's back. You used to smoke weed behind. That'll be fun. But five stars do help drive us up the charts. Head over

to shutupandgivememurder.com where you can get everything small town murder and crime and sports related and listen to crime and sports this upcoming week we have michael irvin who is very famous and has a wild story and in addition to that the 2021 scummy awards fantastic the pageantry jimmy i'm gonna have my tux on so we're gonna have my tux on you're gonna have your tux on yeah i gotta take a limo to my own house it's a very complicated yeah it's complicated we gotta do it jimmy this is uh the pageantry the grandeur the people need it and we're gonna give it to them the scummy awards coming up next week ain't shit nothing they ain't got shit on the scummies so check that out uh the scummies on

crime and sports also listen to ps i hate this movie because i have to watch twilight so make that worth my while by listening to me complain about it with my wife there and uh we have a ball with that shit also uh if you want to be uh if you want to follow us on social media we're at murder small on twitter at small townTownPod on Facebook, and at Instagram, at SmallTownMurder on Instagram. That's the one. Follow us on all those. And if you want even more of us for some reason, we have lots on Patreon. Yes.

And if you sign up, we've had a lot of people ask this. If you sign up, you absolutely get access to the full catalog of bonus episodes. You don't just get from when you sign up we've had a lot of people ask this if you sign up you absolutely get access to the full catalog of bonus episodes you don't just get from when you sign up on you can listen to the we got like what 75 80 episodes in there to listen to so many episodes i don't know how many but there's a bunch over 50 i know that episodes of crime and sports and small town murder bonuses that you get and you get access to all of that at patreon.com slash crimeandsports. This next bonus episode, which will be this weekend coming up here, we have, first of all, Crime and Sports' Danny Almonte, who is a Little League pitcher who threw so hard

no one could believe he was Little League age, and they were completely right, because he fucking wasn't. And he was an older kid blowing 11-year-olds away, which is pretty amazing. The way there is very important oh they were they were clearing off his they're making him a bust at cooperstown they're like he's gonna be the greatest and they're like oh no he was like 15 never mind he was just an average 15 year old and then also we have a murder case in oregon so crazy that we're gonna do a murder as a bonus, which we hardly ever do. We only do it when they're that insane. So it's a wild spree of insanity.

Check that out. Telling you it's worth it. All that and more. And by the way, the next, after this, two weeks from now, next Small Town Murder bonus Patreon episode will be the Prisoner Dating Game. Terrific. Long-awaited return of the Prisoner the prisoner dating game get all that and more patreon.com slash crime and sports and on top of that jimmy will mispronounce your name not on

purpose yeah it'll fuck it up you know that i'm doing my best he's trying everybody be nice to him but he's he's he does a good job fucking it up and he's great at it and if you just want to have good karma and also be a producer and have your name mispronounced, because that is important, you can do that over at PayPal as well using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. That said, I think, Jimmy, after this crazy week, and who knows how many people will want to kill me after today, how many fucking pitchforks and torches are going to be chasing me down the road? Let me hear about the people who don't want to cause me bodily harm, or you for that matter,

who want to be nice to us. Our favorite people in the world are producers. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Joanne Ahern. Happy birthday, by the way. Molly McDermott. Keegan King. Lady Vandercat. Chrissy Ann Costaldi's back. are Joanne Ahern. Happy birthday, by the way. Molly McDermott. Keegan King. Lady Vandercat.

Chrissy Ann Costaldi's back. Thank you, Chrissy. Thank you, Chrissy. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Ann Fountain. Fountaine, maybe. Susanna Platt.

Nicholas Chaltry in Colorado Springs. Thank you. Maria Rasper. Sonia Reese. Pamela Sloan, the original Pamela. Jordan Bennett, of course, in Canada. Oh, Jordan, we love him. Karen Edgen, Michael Farrar, and

there's no way that's Kelly, Kylie Coleman? I'm not sure. Titty Neptune? No. Titty Neptune? That's a K. Holy Christ. Titty Neptune, everybody. Wouldn't it be fantastic if I did that on purpose?

Jesus Christ. Allie Silverhouse. Somebody's weird aunt. We're going to Aunt Titty's house. Just don't touch anything. Sorry. Oh, boy. Allie Silverhouse.

Aunt Paterno watched. I don't know what that means. Watching Joe Paterno. So bad. He's dead and they'reno watched. I don't know what that means, but... Watching Joe Paterno. So bad. He's dead and they're just watching. He's the one that was involved in the shit, right? He just kind of looked the other way. Yeah, yeah.

He never diddled, but he definitely allowed diddling to take place. Somebody's making wild-ass accusations while they donate to us. Hey, the cue's away if you're giving us money i don't give a fuck use anybody other other producers this week are very long and it's because we told people to uh settle their dime uh debt that is now a dollar oh my god so many people answered the call and i can't thank you guys enough thank you so so much, everybody. The inside jokes and comments via the PayPal app were hysterical.

Thank you all so much. Other producers are, here we go, Nikki and Joe got married. Congratulations, both of you. Nicole Pungitore, I think. Hannah Bragg. Stitches and Steel. That is Sarah at Stitches and Steel.

I don't know what Stitches and Steel is, but apparently she stitches steel. Also, Highwell Davey, Laura Howard, Kay Hates Toast, Maik Gibson. That might be a girl. That might be Maiki. You don't know her. I don't have a clue. Corey and Amber Call. Here we go.

Laila, Lailasia, Lanisha, and Latasha. Latasha is the easiest one to pronounce of those four. Yeah. Were those all the same person? No. I think it's all the same family, though. Oh, okay. A group.

A group. Okay. I like it. Thank you. HP Forever 81. Oh, okay. A group. A group. Okay. I like it. HP Forever 81, Terry Stodinger, Lexi Bean, Echo Lens, Terry Rogers, Robin Heyer. Thank you very much. She said something very sweet also. Lindsey Awn. No, that's Kat.

Kat Collado. Daniel Green. And he called us bloodsuckers, which I laughed at. Because we begged for our 10 cents back and made him pay a dollar. Eric Rodriguez, Tammy Curtis, Elizabeth Nelson, Bobby Shambliss, Joanna Kagan, Molly McCarthy, Bobby Starr, Original Beef Brothers, Rick Mahorn, and Jeff Ruland. Is that a thing?

Was that what they were called? Rick Mahorn's, not that I know. I don't know he's a beef brother. I didn't know about Is that a thing? Was that what they were called? Rick Mahorn's dad. Not that I know. I didn't know he was a beef brother. I didn't know about that either, but hey. Michael Rhodes. Gracie Juntunen. Juntunen? I don't know.

Marianne Rodriguez. Michael Garcia. Talena Johnson. Jensen. God damn it. Thank you, Talena. Lisa Love. Ashley Veo.

Mason Spates. And his girlfriend, Kendra, had a birthday this week. Happy birthday, Kendra. Pixie DeLeon, Travis Croxford, Yaks Motorcycle Maintenance and Detail Shop, Carl Kirshner. Again, with the fucking umlaut. How did I do that? Corporal umlaut. There it is.

Thank you. Peyton Meadows, happy birthday to Carrie Melmer. Amanda Knight, Tyler Combs. God damn it. James Marder, Maria Kip Soosley. This is going to be like when people go to high schools and they sit through 3,000 people's names before they get to their niece and then they can get the fuck out of there. Luis Reyes, Casey Smith, Deanna Grimes, Richard Johnson, I doubt it, Rob Wilson and his lady love, Tarnia Goodsell,

Goodsell, Goodsell, Ariadna Sanchez, M. Louisa Edmondson, Eric Wagner, Mr. Fabulous913, Kevin Anderson, Gabriel Bell, Lee Hibbler, Nicolette Nguyen, Andrea Martha Boyle, Alexis Amos had a birthday also. Stephanie Hernandez, Margaret Quackenbush. Is that real? Steve Schnell,

Moto Fab called us Twat Waffles, which I enjoyed as well. Marty Emmerich, Deanna, Deanna Lewis, Sabrina Marsan, Jesus, Heather Rippey, Stacey Nielsen, Courtney Chenier, Jason Lizotti, Lizote, Paul Such, Jessica Kuda, Tyler Card, Natasha Turner-Swift, Adonia Damakis, I don't know. Kaylin Bancroft, Sarah Hines, I think, Hins, Janice Hill, Melissa Moss,

Adam Simon, Ryan and Elizabeth Shahade, Jamie McGorley, Stephanie Holtz, Drew Shockley, Lindsay King, Amanda McAllister, Kathleen Marquardt, Matthew Wilkins, Sarah Surridge, Catherine Reese, Jennifer Litticoat, Jesus, fuck, nope kathleen markwart matthew wilkins sarah surage katherine reese jennifer litakote jesus fuck james richardson matt shannon thomas smith and natasha hart harris uh michael musolf

your fandom or mine amy edwards uh carla broman jesse pitts he's a great dude by the way he messages me to check on me more than my mom It's fucking phenomenal Mario Guerra Sent us bullet keychains By the way I gotta give you one Thanks Mario Timothy Waller

Alice Agner Thomas DeMello Patricia Arcand Luke Becker Andrea Martinez Christopher Nelson Rose Martinez Dakota Harrington

John Yer He's in Minnesota One of our first guys That ever sent us a goddamn dollar. Thank you, John. Wow, thank you so much. Laura Schwartz Hockey, Siona Messing. Thank you very much, by the way. She sent a nice word also.

I don't remember what it was. I'll have to look it up. But she said something nice. Meredith Phillips. No, she sent a giant donation, which was unbelievably so sweet. Thank you so much, Siona. I can't tell you how much we appreciate it. I appreciate it so much that I can't pronounce your name.

You'll fuck her name up. Dan Burley, Sam Terranova, Janelle Jonic, Christopher Dilley, Jude Kendall, Deanna Jones, Dina Jones, Dan Blagio, Kimberly Wilson, Cody Leversey, Jessica Masseri, and Mr. The Cat, Alyssa Gilbert, Allison Warnock, and Allison Helmer. She's done a diamond sports, which I thought was a great pun. Christopher Tyner, Sarah Gray, Jennifer Harrison, Connor Katus, Katus, I don't know, Christy Ayani, Robert Sakuch, Kimberly Turnow, Kyle

Waugh, Molly Parker, Charlotte Reals, Melissa Green, Brian Killian, Eric Hawk, Jacqueline Donaldson, The Weirdest Death Podcast, Bethany Urban, Travis Robert, Sten Cryer, Misty Keene, Eric Walter, Matt McLean, Jillian Graham, Victor Sandoval, Heather Norton. I think that's right.

Yes. Caleb White, Larry Butterfast. Why did it change it to Butterfly? But I know the guy, so I know it's Butterfast. He's always giving us stuff. He's a nice guy. Apple. Matthew Mills.

That's not even my fault. I know I spelled that right. Stacey Hans. Karen. What is this? This, they changed it, too. There's no way. It's Dicobinus.

What? Andrea Beitlich. John B. Amanda Harper. Terry Lischka. Amy Farr. Jesenia Vaca, Ashley Curran, Kimberly Moore, Stephen Lin, Audra Wallace, Guy Dobson, Randy Schwartzman, Toby Danger-Parsonage, Zoe Bednasak, William, nope, that's Mason, Wicks, Morgan Outerbridge, James Vaughn, Ashley Shoot, Shannon Rutledge, Samantha Preeb, Seth with no last name, Brianna

Rabenberg, Amanda, nope, that's Adam, Corbett, Joe, Joe Son, I hope it's not that one, by the way. Guess what your new name is. Corbett, Joe Son. I hope it's not that one, by the way. Hey, Adam, guess what your new name is. Shane Dockrell. Adam with no last name. Wayne William Phillips.

Amanda with no last name. Yes, that's who it is. Lori Burkowski. Green Bastard. Aaron Mule or Mule. Samantha Koontz. Enrique Palazzo. Alaysia.

Alaysia? Alaysia Buran. Elijah. Alicia. I don't know what that is mindy mindy somewhere in there colby burke robert perez justin kiso shanna dodge ashley lynn paul k christopher barnett aaron lovins lovins uh rachel ward mark olson caitlin connor sar Sarah Finley, Fatima with no last name, Outdoors East Coast, not right now, motherfucker, Ashley Heberding, Evan Olson, Kristen House, Sarah Howard, LB, Alex Sabriski, TK, Tara with no last name, Jacob with no last name, Paul Gavin. Aunt Fu. Michelle Hickman. Sarah Goers. Chad Kleinfelter.

Bree Brown. Fuck. Jameson Cheyenne. No way. Did I get that right? Jamie's son? I don't know. Jamie Ann Josie.

Zach Einwag. Cody Neal. Clear with no last name. Montana with no last name. Nina Liao Lua. The whole state of Montana? The whole state. The goddamn. They love us. Nina Liao Lua. The whole state of Montana? The whole state. The goddamn, they love us.

Nina Lau Fieraria. Sam Deep. Mala. Brady Camp. Rachel Rochelle. Moore. Christina Zerwer-Gaffar. That's not right.

Pamela Corwin. Jenny Brown. Chase Berger. Kay Chad. Natasha Lorenz. Carrie Ward, Sydney Stewart, Imran Khan. If that's Hansi, I'll lose my mind. It's such a popular name, by the way, Imran Khan, but I know a dude.

Anyway. Yeah. S. Corey, James McDonald, Michael Lotz, Trisha Bono-Anano, what? That can't be right pardon bono ano what damian bernard burn burn heart jesus patricia lindsey a gail mckinney ulysses with no last name rick a ricky elaine i don't know all right kevin stiff olaf ingles doter bert what inglesbert doter ingle bert's doter trying my best to sound it out like i tell my daughter to do amanda uh nyadi emma noel uh samuel cats serena mcpherson sarah titterington fuck crystal watkinson i'm trying so hard uh cody webb ian grassel ashley klein what klein has slink monique with no last name tabby sprague Watkinson. I'm trying so hard. Cody Webb, Ian Grassel, Ashley Klein, what? Klein

Hessling, Monique with no last name, Tabby Sprague, Brian Dixon, Catherine Hungerholt, oh boy, Tony Trifoletti, Dana Pritchard, Michelle Nickerson, Emily Olive Pettit. You got this.

Yeah. Slow it down, Wissman. Hilary Juergens, Coyle Cartman, Intertwined Realms, Lauren Wagner, Kyla Milner, Matthew Bowden, Derek Stowell, and Nikki F., Amoy Hamilton Fernandez, Sarah Edstrom, Andrew Mazeo, Ted Sauerberg, Deja Knight, Shelly Hain, Neat with no last name, Brian Wetzel, they got pretzel money, Holly Huffman, Rachel Bauman, Chad Milson, Desiree Harris, Brittany with no last name, Daniel McIntyre, Jeanette Pamela.

Oh, boy. Ben Mager, Kevin Hofbauer, David Harper, Brittany Ritt. Jesus Christ. Carly Rivers, Yusi with no last name. Kevin with no last name. Daniel Daniel Rube. Jesus. Madeline Giddens.

Bethany Rogers-Wisman. Terrence Quigley. Nicholas Viette. What? Amber Allen. Jamie Harris. Ashley Burns. Mike Pubeau.

Forrest Hartman. Hunter with no last name. Friah? Frazier. Frazier? Frazier? Frazier. Don't look at me. That was Frazier.

That might be it. Give him his money. Janae Kopecky. Tristan Dunlap. Rob Nelson. Don't look at me. That might be it. Giving us money. Janae Kopecky. Tristan Dunlap. Rob Nelson. Charles Brogdon. Suzanne Rodriguez. Peter Gaudreau.

Yep. Damon Machalat. Jesse, what? Ellenberger. Michael Emmons. Brittany Wang. Alex would, Alexis would know last name. Coleman Johnson.

Jonathan Jarecki. Roger Pierce. Kat Jones. Lauren would no last name Coleman Johnson Jonathan Jarecki Roger Pierce Kat Jones Lauren would no last name Mistress Vader Julian what is this Julian K DeNara Tran Andrew Bailey might be our dude and I think yeah probably maybe another one could be a possible we love this Andrew but we love any Andrew Bailey who gives us money. At least two of them. Jackie Howell, Tara Tierra Porter, Brian Tharp, Jay Warren, Chris with no last name, Derek Senator, Cassie Bartlett, Christina Vidland, Kyle Ingenthorpe. Jesus, what the fuck happened? It's coming off the rails. Vivian Barber, Kevin Menef.

They'd have to be on the rails first. Matthew Menshik, Sarah Hunt. I think it's the rails first. Matthew Menschick, Sarah Hunt. I think it's a new one. I think that's another Sarah Hunt. She was like, oh my God, somebody with my name is donating. Somebody named Sarah Hunt. She was very taken aback by that. Trevor Wise, Daniel Cleaver, Brenda Wallace.

Amy with no last name. Robert Jones, Amy Sizemore. Hope not Tom. Related to. That guy's a pud. Tom's daughter. Fuck that guy. Brendan Petershack. Hope not Tom. Related to. That guy's a pud. Fuck that guy. Brendan Petershack.

That's gross. Marcia Widow. Paul Leatherbarrow. Amanda Weir. Corey McKinnon. Emily Ann Troutman. Matt Hagen. Michelle Dewar. Brett Nelson. Megan Savage. Iron Cannibal CFL.

Trevor Dujmik. Dujer, Shamar Jordan, Eden with no last name, Cassie Huntley, Richard Blanco, James Lutchman, Molly DeBarard, Sir Pounce, Albin Amby, Anthony Monteleone, Pucker Brush, Holden Page, Nikki Moore, Kayla Gardner, Jennifer Saunders, Gina B., Angela Shoemaker, Molly Parrish, Kevin Westbay, Nivek Rel, Amelia Grossman, Crystal Stewart, Ruben with no last name, Ben Tams, Beth Gadow, Sam Dobbs, Sadie Laura, Brandon Cherry, Jeremy Favreau, MJ Hart, Ted Samuel, Caitlin Victoria Gray, Killer Dragon 2019, Instant Rye Play, Shea Fallow, Phylex Fallow, Dan Hogan, B.A. Metz, Akash Desai, Nickash, I don't know, Cher would know last name, Nick Luizios, that's not right either, Mark Good Godbeer, Andrew Mullen, Moyan, Nick Dillingham, Meth Falcon Investments, John Clay, Jeremy Powers, John Freidich, Jamie Rose Plum, Kalia Conley, okay, we're almost done, Ryan Williams, Dirk Dangle. Elizabeth Feather. Tiffany Armour.

Emily Makes Coffee. I'll bet she does. Chelsea Ferguson. Daniel Vergeren. Verhagen. Jesus. Rachel Solenberg. Robert Peterson.

Luke Vickers. Christy Gels. Gels? Sam with no last name. Cordy Swift. Mike Colt Coit, Jesus, fuck, Kelsey Martin, Kelsey, what, why is there an A, Lily Pichal, Matt Smith, Josh with no last name,

Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen, fuck, Denny Board, Jamie Lee Coffey, Parker, what is this, Bromit, Susie Sunshine Ethan Moore Derek Pearson Randy Lifton Lofton Lofton and Brendan Bauer and obviously all of our patrons

you guys are the fucking best people on earth we can't thank you enough truly you've made my life and James's life much easier than it ever has been absolutely thank you forever I can't thank you enough. Easier or anything else. Better.

Yeah. Thank you, guys. We feel loved and cherished and not starving. So thank you. That helps a lot to be able to pay our bills. That's very nice. And just all the support you guys give us in every single way. Everything, whether it be just something, saying something nice or just listening, telling somebody, donating donating whatever the

hell it is that you're doing for us we appreciate any effort that you make truly i owe you so much gratitude thank you um what if people wanted to say something to you how could they find you jimmy well they've done it they found me everywhere and i appreciate it thank you guys so much we're what about you yeah you know how to google people yeah it's fine we We're around. Just find us if you want to find us. We're on there. Thank you. Thank you, honestly, for everything that you've done for us. We really, really do appreciate it.

We're coming up on, what is this, four years, I think, of the show? It's unbelievable. Very, very soon. Yeah. Like, for this month, I think, is four years of the show. So just thank you for everything you've done for us for the last four years. And six years if you're a crime and sports person. Right.

So just thank you so much. Or five years, not six years. Four years and six years if you're a crime and sports person. So just thank you so much. Or five years, not six years. Four years and five years. Yeah, five and four. So thank you so much for that. And honestly, we just can't thank you enough. And we're going to keep thanking you. And we'll keep thanking you all week.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.