Small Town Murder - #216 - The Pyramid Killer - Imlay, Nevada

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

This week, in Imlay, Nevada, a surprising, and absolutely horrible scene is discovered, and there are few clues to go on. That is, until a lunatic begins making his presence known, all around the area. This leads investigators to one of the strangest arrests in the history of murder. To a man who has some odd beliefs when it comes to pyramids, mountains, and his own name. A truly wild tale, of some truly horrific murders!! Along the way, we find out that Burning Man sounds super weird, that unless you're mining for gold, there's no reason to be up in those mountains, and that you can't just tell people that you're the Emperor of North America, and get away with murder!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Imlay, Nevada, a horribly bloody scene with unthinkable brutality combined with a series of strange events leads investigators to a person who claims to live in a pyramid. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed

my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today again and again and again we are so excited to we we have one of the craziest craziest people ever today as a as a subject of this i can't wait to hear it it's it's one of these that it's a top five pocket robin level crazy we're talking it's it's wild so i can't wait to get to that uh before that though i just want to quickly thank everyone for everything you've done for us, of course, in the last week and forever, the last few years, as a matter of fact. You're absolutely heroes. Thank you.

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want to check out patreon.com slash crime and sports. You want to get on there right now. We have had such a lot of such crazy shows. The last ones that came out a couple of days ago, though, what a good run we had. We did the Hotel Cecil. We talked about that for crime and sports, which had nothing to do with sports, but that's OK. We talked about that documentary and the disappearance of elisa lamb and the the whole thing there that was a really really interesting one and then on small town

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So Jimmy did that. You can check all that out and everything, the whole back catalog, patreon.com slash crime and sports. And if you do that, you'll be a producer, which means you will get a shout out at the end of the show. And Jimmy will, in his best effort to pronounce your name perfectly, will brutalize it terribly and make it nothing near your name. But you'll recognize it. It'll be a fragment in there somewhere but we'll there's

been a couple people that are like i don't think it's something i know like i definitely do yeah i don't think you said it i don't think you said it right i'm like that's the charm man that's i'm trying my best so uh do that and you'll be a producer and you can also be a producer and have great karma if you just want to drop something on paypal uh using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com and everything you guys do for us everything everybody does thank you so much we are over we're just overjoyed by it and we can't we're overwhelmed by it honestly we can't stunned and whatever there's a ton of words that describe the humility that we feel anytime any of you give a shit about us so uh disclaimer quickly this is a comedy show we're comedians this is there is a murder story

always it's real we're not making anything up for comedic purposes this is an actual terrible thing that happened and there's going to be jokes not the jokes that's the thing the art of it is the jokes are not about really the murder stuff that's the thing. The art of it is the jokes are not about really the murder stuff. That's the thing. You never hear us be excited about someone being decapitated or anything like that. But all the crazy stuff that goes around a murder the rest of the time, which is most of any murder story, it's hilarious when you think about it. Who thinks to do something like that? So we're going to make fun of that.

There's so many variables between choice of weapon, all kinds of things. It's insanity. So we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why? Because we're assholes. Yes. We're not scumbags, Jimmy. There is the deal.

That's how we do it. So if that sounds good to you, we are going to have a good time. If you think true crime and comedy just for no reason should ever go together, maybe the show's not for you. Maybe it isn't. Give it a shot, but don't complain later on if you go, oh, there was jokes. go together. Maybe the show's not for you. Maybe it is. Give it a shot. But don't complain later on if you go, oh, there was jokes. I've been heavily on it's not.

It's possible. You never know. So whatever. Either way, for the rest of you that are left, I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. I can't wait. Let's go on a trip. I'm really excited.

I'm excited, too. Let's do this. Let's get out't wait. Let's go on a trip. I'm really excited. I'm excited, too. Let's do this. Let's get out of Mississippi. Hot and humid and sticky. We're down by the Gulf there. It's sticky down there where we were last week. That was a crazy story in Losedale, by the way. That was one of those where it's strange because the guy seemed relatively on the range of normal otherwise and then he's just like i'll just

commit the craziest murder ever recorded i'll make up the most insane murder weapon that's not a weapon and i'll turn it into one and wow if you didn't if you missed last week check out loosedale mississippi because it was a trip but uh oh it's something it's something but this week we're going out west jimmy open spaces we're going to inlay nevada oh boy you know where that is no no no one knows where that is i don't think inlay inlay with an m with an m yeah not inlay not inlay not like you're inlaying something so this is northwest nevada it's about two hours to reno so when you're two hours outside of reno that's saying something that's out there man that is that's out there about seven and a half hours to vegas because people who aren't from that area might think nevada vegas it's nowhere near vegas i mean that's way up there yeah seven and a half hours it might

as well be you know that may as well be idaho yeah that's way up there. Yeah. Seven and a half hours. It might as well be, you know, that may as well be Idaho. Yeah, it's so far. It's about 30 minutes to Winnemucca, Nevada, which was actually our last Nevada episode. Pretty close. Winnemucca, which was episode 131. You know when that was, Jimmy? All the way back of August 7th, 2019, which might as well be 150 years ago. 2000 what? 2001, Jimmy. That's when that was. 2019. It might as well have been 2001. I don't even remember that year.

That's what I mean. It's in Pershing County, this town. Area code 775. 1.2 square miles is the actual kind of town proper. But the area itself that they call Imlay is about 34 kind of square miles. Okay. Whatever the area. This is in the mountains up there, too.

This is 4,200 feet of elevation in this town. Really? Yeah. This area is normally don't give the elevation, but normally I don't think people are going to think that about Nevada. I don't think anybody knows that Nevada think that about Nevada. But it's up there. I don't think anybody knows that Nevada really has that much of mountains. Yeah, this is the northwest corner there. So there's mountains from the California range.

Oh, you mean the Sierra Nevadas? The Sierra Nevadas that people don't think about. Now, town motto here. Here we go. Town motto. There's two of them. One of them is more for in town and one of them is more for out in the hills out because this is gold mining country this is where people still to this day will like like

it's deadwood will go get themselves a pick and a whatever that thing is or that that plate with holes in it where they seem to pan there you go the pan yeah they get a pan and a pick and they still go out there and they're gonna make their their fortune now, which I feel like is a last ditch effort at something. You've messed up a lot. Sounds like it's pig Latin. Yeah. Yeah. Imlay on the on the Husky.

This is not a. So I am pay one pay. One motto here is just what you you doing all the way out here? That's one you'd expect. It's very common. That's what everybody will ask you. Or if you get more in the hills, in the gold, quote, that's my gold pew pew. So that's a different one.

Those are the two most heard phrases in this area. So history of this town. It's an unincorporated town out there just kind of sitting by itself. It has, at this day, it has an elementary school, a general store, a post office, and a trading post. It is 1720 there still. Yeah, it's like 1885 in this town perennially, just always. It was a railroad town that's now completely pretty much abandoned. It used to have more people, and now it doesn't. It was named for the nearby mine or for the civil engineer who surveyed the town. No one knows.

No one knows if the guy who surveyed the town was really named this, and then they named the mine after it, and then they named the town after it, so they don't know. It's very strange. This is, like I said, this is gold country up here. It's very strange this is like i said this is the gold country up here it's the uh what is it the majuba mountains m-a-j-u-b-a mountains that's majuba majuba it's got canyons and all this shit in there what this town does have what it's kind of known for it's weird because it's the only thing this area is known for well two things we'll get

to that and things to do. The Thunder Mountain Monument. Oh. Which is not a... Like the ride at Disneyland? I was going to say, it's not a monument to the ride at Disneyland, but it's called... The Wikipedia says it's a series of outsider art sculptures

and architectural forms that were assembled by Frank Van Zandt starting in 1969 upon his arrival in imlay it's off the shoulder of the i-80 this is um yeah so i did a little research here he's a world war ii veteran from oklahoma he served with the seventh armored division in world war ii fought a bunch of campaigns in europe and was badly burned in a tank battle. This guy. That sounds awful.

Jesus Christ. And then he became an artist? Well, later on. He was born on an Indian reservation in Okmulgee, Oklahoma in 1921. And due to his upbringing, he's not an Indian. He's not a native at all, I don't think. No, he's not an indian he's not a native at all i don't think no he's not at all his his dad's name is sydney grove van zant which yeah no but because he grew up in on the reservation though he identifies himself as a creek indian oh no because everybody one of those guys yeah but i guess then too that's not like he uh could like watch tv and

like or anything else it was just like well this is what's around me you know i guess i'm i guess it's whatever but yeah he's he's uh so he's kind of self-identified you don't want to be that guy chief rachel dolezal kind of a thing here going on like the guy from Love After Lockup who just fucking found out he's like 127th Native American and then he now only wears turquoise and braids his hair. And he wears fringes and long braids and literally will answer questions with age-old proverbs and you're like, listen, motherfucker. Listen. No. I don't want to hear that shit from you. You've got 12 kids, sir.

Yeah. I don't want to hear that from you. Can you just focus on raising your children? Jesus Christ. So he became, after a while, he ended up ditching his name of Van Zandt and taking the Native American name Rolling Mountain Thunder. Wow. After he experienced an epiphany, which sounds like this is in the late 60s. So it sounds like he took acid.

Yeah. And he said, my name is now. What is it? Fucking rolling mountain thunder. Bow before me. I don't know what he picked that because Mountain Dew was already a drink. Rolling Mountain Dew. What's that you say, Bobby?

Shit. Rolling Mountain Thunder. Bow before me. So, yeah. Van Zandt's such a cool name. Why would you want to change it? I don't know. He ended up, okay, he had two things he wanted

to get done here after his epiphany well three change his name number one and then he needed to a couple of tasks one was building shelters for the presumed coming apocalypse because that was part of his epiphany also there's an apocalypse coming there's always one of those. Obviously. And also he wanted to make this coming apocalypse place refuge a spiritual haven for seekers in the hippie era as well. And this isn't the guy this story is about? Nope. This is just a guy from the town, Jimmy. He built out of desert flotsam and concrete, as it's put here. The the monument is an astonishing work of art, as powerful and intriguing and as visionary as the Watts Towers.

This one review of it says the site covers see it to the site covers. I have pictures. I'll show you the site covers five acres on the south side of a thousand-foot stretch of Interstate 80. There was originally seven buildings, including a three-story hostel where many hippies lived in the 70s. My God. When they came through, three stone and concrete buildings remain, and more than 200 concrete sculptures depicting Native Americans and their protective spirits, massacres, and injustices against them. That's what remains here.

It's got, like, It's weird, though. He put up other things, like found objects, like car hoods are everywhere. Doll heads used to be all over the place. Doll heads would be dangling from all the trees like ornaments, which is just creepy and very strange. The third floor had one wall made of antique bottles, which formed a stained glass window, basically. So that's kind of neat, though. Concreted that shit in. Yeah.

Other floors had windows from antique windshields and bottles incorporated to provide lighting so when the sun hit it, it would light the whole room. All sorts of shit here. it would light the whole room uh all sorts of shit here uh one framework forms a large handle so the great spirit could take the building away after he dies so it's a it's almost like his like it's like an art lunch pail yeah well yeah it's like his tomb except bury me deep in the sarcophagus but put a handle on it so they the gods can take me away when they're done here so i mean this i don't know this all of this is fine if that's like some you're like native belief of all your people but you have to remember this guy's name is van zant and he decided this all on his own so the site was partially destroyed by arson in 1983 which was the same year that he was honored as 1983 artist of the year by the state of nevada

oh so he was the artist of the year not the grammys just and someone burned his shit down in the same year it's almost like it drew attention to him and they were like who's that artist of the year fuck him i'm gonna burn his shit to the ground. How dare he? So it was also kind of falling apart. Thunder Mountain, its hostile house, had burned down. The chiefs, he married a young wife, basically, at one point. And now she left him and took the last of his three children with her. Oh, no. So took all his kids, left him.

They burned his shit down. So he's all depressed. He's also depressed that the apocalypse didn't happen. This is the 80s. It's like I've been saying there's an apocalypse for the last 15 years and it hasn't happened. So then he's getting all bummed out about that. So in 1989, he blew his brains out. He couldn't take it anymore.

He's got to be related to Ronnie, right? From Lynyrd Skynyrd? I mean, there's a lot of Van Sant's. I don't know if he's got to be married. He's got to be related to Ronnie, right? From Leonard Skinner. I know. I mean, there's a lot of Van Sant's. I don't know if he's related to he could be related to the guy in Bruce Springsteen's band who plays Silvio and the Sopranos, too. I mean, who the hell knows? There's a historic site nevada state historic site in 1992 and now they kind of have tours and shit there and all this type of thing so um then i found this is a description of the town this is from nevadaweb.com because it's a very small town there's no reviews so i had to find like a this is uh in lay it's an article called in lay and mill city history in lay was a railroad town established in 1869 on the central pacific it's now a windblown confusion of tattered roof

shingles and swooning porches in a small crosshatch of dirt streets oh my god that's the town it says diesel locomotives locomotives rush through their air horns blaring to remind old imlay of the long ago days when the railroad was king and dozens of little settlements like imlay were built to serve it now the interstate is king and imlay is all but invisible except for the monument to native americans on the other side of the freeway so that's all they have is thunder mountain it's like the town that Cars was written about. Kind of, yeah. Like, there's got to be a fast one in there somewhere.

What was that, Muscle Car Ranch in Oklahoma? Maybe that's what they're talking about. So the mountains here, the Majuba Mountains are a mountain range here, and lots of gold there has come out of that place. So that's a thing. People here, 227 is the population. Not a thousand. Not a lot.

Just 227. End of story. And that's all. Which is up 67% since 1990. Wow. So it shows you that hermit life is becoming more popular. Everyone, look out for the next HGTV show, Hermit Life. It's on right after...

In Lane, Nevada. It's on right after Tiny House Living. It'll be Tiny House Hunters and Tiny House Living and then Hermit Life and then Van Life after that or whatever the fuck they do where people live in an RV

even though they're 24. And borders and just all the awful ways human beings live. All right. This is how people want to... Look at bad decisions people have made. Isn't this wonderful?

Male and female here is pretty even. Median age is low, 32.7. That's about five years younger than normal. Everyone is in the 25 to 34 or the zero to four-year-old range. Okay. There's nobody else here. It's pretty much just a very few people of any other there are zero people over the age of 75 in this town zero can't hack it can't hack it well it's probably

too all the old nuclear testing that they used to do probably went up and settled into the mountains i'm sure you just you perish young here who knows it'll take you they'll take you they'll take you uh married population a little bit higher. It's like 55%. But when it's so low a population, there's not enough. Everything's fucked. It's all messed up. It's all fucked out, Jimmy, as we've said. Divorce rate here, normally it's 10%.

Here it is 37.2% of the people are divorced. Wow. So that's a lot in this area here. The single with no children, you want to go out and party in MLA? 0.0%. Get down. So if you meet someone. Not a one.

Nope. If you meet someone and go home with them, they will definitely go, shh, my kids are asleep. At some point during the interaction, you'll go, what? Is that? I'm sitting on Cheerios. Is that a thing? There's a lot of Cheerios. Stop there's a lot of sleep there's a lot of cheerios between your couch cushions uh race of this town 100 white so there you go that's all it is zero zero down the line is hilarious zeroed out for the rest of it here uh religion 24.3

percent of the people are religious there's no god in the minds jimmy yeah when you're that deep in the earth yeah god can't get down in that you can hear the devil whisper yeah he's talking to god is the canary jimmy when you get down that deep. Yeah. This place sucks. This place is a shithole. Let's just say that. I don't want to move here. How about that?

No. Let's make a pact. Neither of us are ever going to move to Imlay, Nevada. How's that sound? I'm never going to be there ever. I can't hack it. No, I'll drive right by. Is that that rolling thunder?

Let's go. Keep going. Thunder Mountain. 24.3% of the people here are religious. It's spread around pretty good. There's a little of this, a little of that. A couple of Mormons here. And the only thing there isn't 0.0% Jewish.

I don't think so. We are not going there. 0.0% Muslim as well. Politically in this town, the whole county, by the way, because we kind of do this by county, the politics, the county only has about 6,000 people in the whole county. So it's not a real – and there's 6,000 people spread out throughout like little – literally like mountain shacks. It's a weird place. 30 different towns. Yeah.

So it's 30 little towns. It's very strange. So I don't know if there would be any like collective thought process is what I'm getting at. Everybody's separated. So whatever it is, it's just a it's random. It's 20, 22 percent Democrat in the last election, 71 percent Republican, 7.5 percent independent, which is less than I would think. Place like this, I think it would be like 68 percent independent. Just I ain't voting for nobody that other people like all right someone moved here because fuck it all yeah because fuck all there's a

candidate whose slogan is fuck all god damn it and i think i'm gonna vote for him he's a guy from the mines he just works right next to me he's he said to write down that votes for people like uh the guy that ran the cat house. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, that guy. So unemployment rate here is a little bit higher than the rest of the country. Median household income, though, is also high because the jobs are dangerous and they pay well. So it's median household income, $76,164, which is way higher than the $57,000 range. Most of the people here make $75,000 to $100,000 in that range. Cost of living here, $100,000 being regular average, here it is $74,000.

So cost of living is low. Housing, $36,500. James, I take it back. This place fucking rules. What do you see the houses? Median home cost eighty four thousand five hundred dollars which is extremely excessively low so if we've convinced you to grab yourself a pick and a pan and head on out to the majuba mountains and after you check out

thunder mountain of course we have for you the m lay nevada real estate report The Imlay Nevada Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here, which I couldn't find existing anywhere, but in theory it's $700 for your average two-bedroom rental. I found this house, Jimmy. I'm going to show you the picture. I'm going to turn the monitor towards you here. Oh, boy. Take a look at that bad boy.

What the fuck? Is that porch falling off it's i i mean i guess but i think they're gonna go with it i think they're gonna go with it and just hang out and put a chair i think it was built that way in the first place too well there's a chain link fence around the porch which is an odd touch you don't see that very often uh basically three bedroom one bath one bath, 998 square feet. It's a murder house. It looks like several families were butchered in there in consecutive years. A new family moved in. They were butchered to death. They cleaned the bodies out, wiped up the chalk outlines, and moved another one in.

It's in Love Lock, which is right down the road here from Imlay. You can only find one house in Imlay proper here. This is an awful house, $59,900. So I found... It's an awful place. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 1,440 square foot. This is the one in actual Imlay proper, the only one. The real estate listing says, quote,

truly a diamond in the rough. Oh, boy. I think I use a mining term. Well, yeah, i think that's what you're there for built in 1910 so by miners probably this recently renovated and remodeled two-story home has old school architecture mixed with modern style and appeal and comforts it's not that nice by the way okay 245 000 bucks for that for a house built in 1910. That's only 1,400 square feet in the middle of the desert. That's crazy.

Or mountains. Two bedroom, one bath, 1,368 square foot. Absolute. You're buying land. The house is a tiny little piece of shit, actually. It's all fucked up, this house. It's not that 1,300 square feet's tiny, but the house is trashed. It's not great.

240 acres, though. Farm and ranch with 52 acres of underground water rights. $350,000. Okay, I got it. Water rights are in Colorado and Nevada. 200 acres that are off in the woods. You can't get water to those. No, I think out of the 240 acres, 52 acres of it has water rights.

Right, that's what I'm saying. The other, they're deep. No, I think out of the 240 acres, 52 acres of it has water rights. Right. That's what I'm saying. The other, the other deep. Yeah. They don't have water rights because they're too far away. Exactly. Things to do here. Burning Man Festival is one.

That's here. That's in this county. It's like half in this county and half in Humboldt County. It's right there. It is. I'll read their Wikipedia that they've described it. Burning Man is a festival focused on community art, self-expression and self-reliance held annually in the western United States. The event derives its name from its culmination, the symbolic burning of a large wooden effigy referred to as the man.

This that occurs at the penultimate night of Burning Man, which is Saturday evening before Labor Day. So this is what I'll be dirty don't shower for two fucking weeks that's disgusting i don't know anything about burning man except i remember on reno 911 they were going to go out there and try to uh quote yeah they all dress like wackos and they dress yeah they dress like i i don't know like they were basically like they shopped in a sex shop for their outfits and then went out with like tiny leather things and like weird shit on their heads. And I think Burning Man is essentially that it's just open minded. Do whatever you want.

There's no judgment here except for the fact that you're all naked in dust and it's fucking gross. I saw a picture of it like a huge dust storm engulfing it with all the people standing there. I was like, oh, God, why would I go to the desert? I looked at this. It started out being free and a few thousand people showed up and then like five years later it was like $10 donation requested

so you didn't have to. Now in 2018, low income ticket prices are $190. That's if you can like prove you don't have money. You can get one. If you can prove a hardship,

you can get in for $200. Pre-sale tickets 990 dollars holy shit pre-sale art tickets 1200 dollars this vehicle passes 80 bucks to park in an expanse they have one thing they have out there it's fucking parking it's an expanse of nothing. You're charging people to park there? You're out of your goddamn mind? It's fucking nuts. It's Mad Max with music. It's crazy. And the next year, it even got more expensive, 2019.

But 78,850 people showed up in 2019. So it's a big deal. Yeah, there was a big, they had a big beef with the county because they said they needed this many security guards security there but then more people showed up and they didn't pay for the extra security so the county's mad at them it's weird so uh that and of course thunder mountain ranch you can go there that's a thing thunder mountain park sorry and then also there's one thing it says just drive up the i-80 that's something to do here road trip highlights buckaroo arts and culture so i mean who doesn't

want that and then western folk life center oh boy can't wait for that uh crime rate in this town what we're interested in jimmy uh this is a strange one property crime is low it's about 25 percent under the national average so okay which makes sense everyone's spread out who are you stealing from and then violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the amount rushmore of crime is high it's about 50 percent over the national average in violent crime so i feel like these people go out they work in the mines they get shit face then they beat the piss out of each other. That seems like what probably happens.

I'm just judging off of whatever. I think that's what's going on here. So that said, Jimmy, this wonderful little dusty mountain town where 80,000 people come. Let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do this, I think. James, that's why I'm here. Let's do it, Jimmy. Okay, now.

I'm putting up with this this shit town for this you have to even know it exists for this yeah now no don't say that because people will be like yeah i put up with the town stuff too jimmy hates it also that's what people will be saying like no most towns are not this that's the fun part we wish the whole show could just be the town that's the thing you guys don't nobody understands is if it was us up to us if we could have the same amount of listeners that's what the show would be we do like it's a town do like three a show with like three towns and we laugh our asses off and go home that'd be fantastic uh but instead someone's gonna die

for your bloodlust fine fine. Fine, everybody. Let's talk about a murder. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the

Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. with a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

This place we're going to talk about here, this actual home, is northwest of Imlay. It's in the Majuba mountains mining area here so everyone involved that that's anywhere around here is a minor there's nobody does anything else unless it's like the one guy who runs the general store or whatever everybody else is a minor it's the only reason to be here you don't go here just to get away from it all. It's mining and mining only. So we're going to go back in time a little bit here. All right. Let's go back. Let's go back to 1980.

Let's do it. Let's grow our mullets out and our mustaches in, and we'll do this. Shave that beard, Jimmy. It's mustache only in 1980. I was just a little puddle. Yeah. December 3rd 1980 and we have to talk about a family here the strode family s-t-r-o-d-e the strode family first off is emory dexter strode he is the patriarch he's 71 years old in 1980 he's born in 1909 which is crazy but still in 1980 he was still spry old emery was he

was a minor so he's an old school minor which uh he's from colorado originally that's a rough life yeah he's an old minor he's married to a woman named mary mabel strode mary mabel that's sturdy yeah that's she's making pie, man. How many different kinds of pie does she make? Like a lot of them, right? Right? She's like. Rhubarb is her jam.

You come from the mine. It's cooling on the windowsill, I feel like. There's definitely with like a cartoon dog running toward it. She grows rhubarb and makes a pie out of that shit. Yeah. Mary Mabel, born in 1908, is a pie lady. Now you could be Mary Mabel. you don't have to make pies. But if you're born in 1908, it's just known that you make pies.

Her cabinet's full of flour, sugar, shit that's down to like the first ingredient. Yeah. She's got it all in there. Also, all different preserves all lined up for her pie making. I think she won the county pie-off, I believe. I believe it. I believe she won the Burning Man county pie off one year. So she's 72 years old, so she's a year older than Emery.

She's a cougar, Jimmy. What do you want? And then they have a daughter as well named Miriam. Miriam Laura is her name. And she became Miriam Lauraura treadwell when she was married in 1969 to a guy named william treadwell so uh she's married miriam and uh they also have a son named frank as well frank strode uh so uh he this is a miriam law miriam I'm sorry. She's 41 years old in 1980, by the way. And Frank is her younger brother.

So the family had a gold and silver mining property. That's where they lived. They had this little house. It's a small house. Yeah. And it's on a big area where they own some of the property so they can go mining. That's what they do. It's a mining family. This is a different way to live.

it's a mining family this is a this is a different way to live we haven't we have not talked a whole lot about some like you know rural miners out there in the middle of nowhere that's a different one it feels like there's like 12 people to do it i'm sure there's a lot well in this around here there's only 271 it's just not a lot of it's a different kind of lifestyle now to live out there that's it you have none of the conveniences of modern day and you really have to have either either not like people or have burned your bridges that badly other places this is like going to alaska you know what i mean like you you're there for a reason you came you didn't just stumble across this place it's hard to find you were either enlisted in the air force and you landed in fucking atlas or you are running from something yes that's what it is and that's what nevada was back in the day as well you know what i mean it really was people

went there they'd go to vegas in the you know early days of it just because they heard it was sleazy so they thought they'd fit right in. That sounds like my place. Yeah, they're like, yeah, you could do anything there. It's great. So they all are living their lives. We'll talk about Miriam because Miriam's got some struggles. She's nearly blind, Miriam, the 41-year-old daughter. We'll talk about exact things that she has problem-wise,

but she also has trouble walking as well. So she's she's hurting. She's got some problems, some physical problems, health problems. Now, on December 3rd, 1980, Frank and Linda, who is Frank's wife, they all Frank and Linda and the parents live in the house. I don't think Miriam lives there. So anyway, Frank and Linda come home. They run away for Thanksgiving. i don't think miriam lives there so um anyway frank and linda come home they run away for thanksgiving i don't know where they went maybe had enough of you fucking people i'm not going to spend a day with you no maybe her day off maybe her family's okay

i don't know where her family lives i'm sure they don't live in the fucking mountains so and i don't know when they came here because they're from colorado originally like they're he they were all born in colorado and then we're at i don't know exactly what different places to frank was born here miriam over here the wife mary mabel over here so uh frank returns with his wife from a thanksgiving trip on december 3rd so that's a it's a long trip and they uh they get all the way out there all the way out out in the mountains, winding back dirt roads and all that sort of shit. And they get there. And I guess Miriam had just moved into there recently. He enters the trailer.

By the way, it's a trailer. Oh, yeah. In case you were. Thanks. I have to do that. And what he sees is a blanket in a bedroom. He's calling. Nobody's there.

He can't find anybody. So he goes into a bedroom looking for people. And he finds all three. He finds Emery, Mary, and Miriam all under a blanket in the bedroom, all of them bleeding all over the place. Wow. They appear to have puncture wounds, bullet holes. There's blood all over the place. And Emery has a butcher knife sticking out of his chest.

Okay. So, you know, accident. Clearly a large accident. Everyone in the house, he cut his finger and then someone tried to help him and he tripped and he stabbed himself. And then someone was so distraught they shot themselves. You know how it works. Yeah. You know how these things happen out in the mining country oh my god so yeah this is a terrible scene for this guy all three of them are just every way possible that you can be murdered they're murdered they're they're murdered piled up together under a

blanket in the bedroom and like we said butcher knife still stay and that's not his only wound the butcher knife sticking out he has right would appear to be gunshot wounds in him as well and stab wounds and a butcher knife sticking out of his chest here. So it looks like he's been stabbed twice. And then the second time it was left in. Now, they discover that Emery's got a pocket watch in his shirt pocket that has been struck by a bullet. Oh. And broken. almost saved him oh well yeah i mean that would have been a great story yeah if it's my lucky pocket watch that my

granddaddy gave me 71 year old man born in 1909 laying on the floor pocket watch thank you granddaddy for what yeah for giving this to me grandfather survived the war with seven years with this up his ass with this up his ass and then it saved my life being deflecting a bullet so uh the hour hand on the watch was stopped at one o'clock so that's an interesting it's like a time stamp of when it when it got when it went down and mary the the woman the 72-year-old, his wife, had been stabbed in the back and shot in the chest. Fuck, man. I mean, 72-year-old woman here. Elderly people.

Elderly. Now, Miriam, who we've said has some problems, and when I tell you exactly what they are, it'll be even worse to hear this. Her wrists were bound with an electrical cord, and she died from a single gunshot wound to the back. That's what they found. and she died from a single gunshot wound to the back. That's what they found. Emery and Miriam both kept diaries. The father and the daughter both had diaries.

The last entry on both diaries was recorded on the morning of December 2nd, 1980, which is the day before this. So sometime between the morning of December 2nd when they made journal entries to the December 3 know, December 3rd when Frank and his wife come in and holy shit, they're under a blanket. Something very bad happened. It was like at 1 p.m. on December 2nd that this happened. Well, that's the thing. That's what it seems like it would be. So you can look at these clues and go, well, I mean, shit, that's pretty cool.

I mean, honestly, at least they're not cool that everybody's dead. But you can if you're looking for clues and you go, I don't know when the fuck this happened. It's a trailer. And I mean, you know, the elements are different out here in the middle of the mountains. It's cold. I'm still sometimes. But there's a goddamn timestamp and a journal entry. Like, this is a modern day.

It's like a screenshot. This is the modern 1980 equivalent of a screenshot, a broken pocket watch with a bullet hole in it and a goddamn diary entry dated the morning of that yeah it's it's amazing so the police are obviously called and bang i'm in and they search the whole area and uh they say they they'd have few clues to indicate why somebody would do this they have no enemies in the area um the daughter has no enemies they're nice people that you know everybody kind of gets along out in the area. The daughter has no enemies. They're nice people that, you know, everybody kind of gets along out in the mining mountains out here. They all know each other.

Everybody kind of keeps their distance, but yet they help each other if they need to. So, you know, it's kind of how you could survive out there in the only way. So everybody was a little wacky like that. I saw a documentary. wacky like that yeah i saw a documentary there's a documentary on this area in uh nevada that is just completely like uh not has no services no nothing and these people just live there anyway how do you it's they grow their own shit kind of but it's near like an army site or an air force site yeah that they can't like it's butted right up against it. So like it's super weird. They don't know what kind of testing is going on around them. And they're still they just live there.

And it's all people that are like at their, you know, they're at the last kind of stages of something or they're there. They all have these stories. None of them are like, well, you know what? I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and I went to college and I did this. And after a couple of years, I said, you know what? I really want to farm nothing in the desert. That's what I want to do.

You know, marketing isn't for me. So this is where I'm at. This is I always loved the desert. See, I watched a documentary about the Unabomber. He said, dump the whole stinking thing. And I was like, you know what? He's right. He's right. I've heard this before from other people but from him it makes sense

i don't know what it is when i hear it from the unabomber he speaks to me so this is i love people on twitter like yeah that guy had it all figured out it's like dude you're you're on twitter right now you're doing exactly what he hated look at his picture and then tell me that guy had it figured out. You know what I mean? Like, dude. For longevity of the human race and for society to go for a very long time. Yeah, I could see where you could think he's got it figured out. The man never used any fossil fuels.

So, yeah, I can see it. Fine. But that's not a way you can live. But that's the thing. You can. OK, you can take ideas you can't take a big giant idea take four percent of it that you like and then say the rest of it is true the only thing that that's been acceptable for and it's only because it's for thousands of

years is religion that's it no nothing else you're allowed to do that with so you can't take ted kaczynski's whole read his whole manifesto and go, well, I agree with that. Matt. OK, well, great. Anybody could talk for 12 hours. Do you agree with a couple of things? Literally anybody. If I talk for 12 hours and my two true facts are my name is Jimmy and we shouldn't use so much plastic and you're just going to blindly agree with the rest of my shit. That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean.

It's anybody you could hear for forever. I've heard a lot of Charles Manson. What he said some of it was true yeah you know and not the crazy shit i mean not the fucking race war shit and the the hole in the death valley and all that shit obviously that was a girl from ohio no you're not you're charles manson yeah obviously that was a little off but you know i mean hitler said some things I'm sure that were fucking right. You know, I'm sure there was something that you go, that makes sense. But then he's for fucking screaming in German for the next 20 minutes. I don't like any of that stuff.

But I do think that vegetable prices should be lower. Yes, that's true. But the rest of it. A Volkswagen is a very, very affordable car. You're right. What? Hey, hold on. Well, you said you liked Volkswagen, so guess what? You're on board.

No. So, anyway. I only mentioned that documentary because I feel like this is kind of this type of area. It's the same type of people that kind of they don't want to be around. If you mention like a city, they're like, bah, people in the city. Yeah, they don't know. Yeah, they don't know how to treat each other there.

It's like shit like that. True, but also not true. Also, yeah, everywhere sucks. So that's why we do this show. So the other thing that's strange that why they can't figure out why this happened, is because there are valuables left all over the place in here. Really? Jewelry.

It's a trailer. It's not like you can't rip it apart. There's $8,000 in cash in a pretty accessible place right sitting on the dresser that nobody touched either. In a $500 trailer. Yeah, like there's no there's no ransacking that went on it's just a bunch of death like it looks like a fucking mob hit you know what i mean like a make them make it make them suffer and then come home like well you know don't steal anything or trash the place just kill that's what it looks like so um they the

investigators believe the killings occurred sometime between noon and 2 p.m., sometime right in the middle of that, probably around 1. I'm going to say based on the pocket watch. So now let's go back to the. Why do they got to give such a big window? You're not fixing our cable. Just tell us when it was. We know. We get it.

So that's December 3rd. He finds the bodies obviously they were killed on december 2nd so let's go back to december 2nd on december 2nd there's a guy named ray horn who is a mechanic uh is a mine like he works a mechanic in some uh for it says a mechanic for a mining outfit i don't know what the hell that means he works on dump trucks and shit yeah so he fixes the machines and does this thing like that so his name is ray horn he says he doesn't know when but sometime between 12 30 and 2 p.m because before cell phones you didn't if you didn't have a watch on you just didn't know what time it was half the time right this guy doesn't set his truck clock to the correct

time no he doesn't know so he says that he was driving on a country road near Majuba Mountain, and he passed a dark metallic blue truck, which he identified as or I'm sorry, he didn't know who it was. He just saw a dark metallic blue truck. He said a slender young man was driving the truck and started firing shots at Horn for no reason just saw him driving and all of a sudden this guy puts it all of a sudden he puts his hand out the window starts bucking shots off at this mechanic guy and we're just now talking about this that was that after you heard about a murder no he reported this later on but i feel like too in the mountains things happen and they're just like i don't know i gotta go i gotta go pan some shit real quick and i'll get that back with the sheriff later back the sheriff and what color was that truck blue all right i'll just remember that bullets flying at me blue truck yeah he said

he was on the his way to mla to pick up a spare tire for a fellow miner that's good that's good helping people helping your fellow miner uh took a bullet for it boy well actually check this out he uh was saw the blue ford pickup truck that he believed to be emory strode's pickup truck he's like oh there's emory's they all know each other and their trucks because they're always driving around he thought it was emory but then he's like who's that driving and then he said the first shot shattered the window of his truck on the passenger side and he was like why the fuck's emory shooting at me jesus christ goddamn emory and then he saw i said hello emory jesus god damn i was waving i waved jesus christ i didn't give you the finger for fuck's sake so he said that uh at that point is when he saw the slender young man driving and obviously emory

is a 72 year old minor a 71 year old minor Slender young man is probably not the way you'd describe him, I doubt. Now, Horn said at first he thought it might have been a rock hitting his window. Even after he felt something hit him in the face, he thought maybe it was a rock hit the window. Until he saw a thin young man leaning out the window, firing more shots at him. He said it was a small caliber pistol. And this guy's just hanging out the window, shooting at him while he's driving, which is insane. So he he said that at that point he said, quote, something hit me in the face. And so he put his hand in his beard and he retrieved a hot piece of metal.

and so he put his hand in his beard and he retrieved a hot piece of metal which was the bullet hit him must have like just not hit him in the face but didn't penetrate the window slowed it down enough apparently damn good beard that's a good window the strength of that window and that beard together literally stopped a bullet unbelievable so bulletproof vests should be made from his window and beard i feel like if you stitch his beard together very closely, like a 4,000 count beard thread count. Well, that's where they get Kevlar from. It's from a guy named Kevin's beard. It's from a miner's beard. I feel like that's what it's from.

I feel like a mechanic for a miner is even more rugged than the miners. That's a hard man. Yeah, he's not even getting gold he's just like he doesn't even have he doesn't have wrenches and sockets he just uses his hands yeah i just they're just all calloused that's that now yep so he said he threw the metal down because it was hot and then he said it hit his arm and fell out of his truck at that point um so that's how that ended up working and then he said it hit his arm and fell out of his truck at that point um so that's how that ended up working and then he said after that he took off because he realized he was being shot at and he said he was chased by this blue truck at speeds of up to 100 miles an hour across a through down a dirt road north of in emly wow so there's two trucks one's hanging out the window

firing at the other one with a big dust cloud behind them going 100 miles an hour in the desert 100 miles an hour on a dirt road is so scary oh that's insane if you move i've done 50 and you're gonna flip and i was losing my mind this is crazy they were just breaking ass here up to 100 i mean i'm sure if you went around a curve or whatever but yeah still down a little bit with him bucking shots at him so this is this is wild so once they put that together they they say oh and you it was the emory's truck shooting at you so they figure whoever was shooting at you good chance he's the guy that probably killed everybody james he waited a day to tell that story yeah yeah, yeah. That's unbelievable.

Yeah, that's what I mean. That event happens in my life. I'm talking about it for a week. Well, I'm sure he talked about it at the mine, but unfortunately, the sheriff wasn't around to hear it. I don't know. It's unbelievable. He couldn't post it on Instagram. Yeah.

OMG, crazy stuff just happened pulled an actual bullet out of my beard with all this with a picture of a shattered passenger side window that's what it would be now hey y'all sorry to interrupt y'all day i'm going live uh i'm doing 112 down 112 down a dirt road right now uh sorry about the noise i do have the window open because i'm smoking now and a man's shooting at me in old emory's truck yeah that now y'all know that emory strode oh man now he's a nice man but boy i i'm oh boy he said oh no that was a gunshot that was a gunshot whoever he loaned his truck to is a real asshole and not that good a shot either but still he's trying hard

so yeah based on so this this police force they've really stacked it up based on the stopped pocket watch at the exact time of the shooting right they deem that it's somewhere between 12 and 2 yeah and based on

shots being fired at a man for no reason in the truck of a stolen truck of the dead man who was also shot to death um they're thinking maybe they're connected so they're really hot they're two for two the cops right now here they're firing all cylinders yeah and then once they hear all of this, they're like, I was probably the same guy who we heard also fired shots at a group of minors who were in the vicinity driving along as well. This is before the Ray Horn incident. Apparently saw a bunch of guys in a truck and just started shooting at them as well. He's just killing everybody. He's trying to.

The only the only damage that he's done outside of the house so far is the passenger side window and probably a tiny bald spot on yeah old ray's beard right so uh they said quote we think the incidents are related genius that's from the sheriff thanks sheriff it's not likely we got two nutty ass people running around this town the the miners had been working at the Iron Mask Mining District, nine miles west of Majuba Canyon. They weren't injured. The suspect was spotted again at 3.30 p.m. when he ran out of gas near Denio, which I'm just going to say Denio because you should be denied. It's D-E-N-I-O, which is just north of the Nevada-Oregon border. He was driving the 1980 dark blue Ford pickup truck

with California license plates on it that belonged to Emory Strode. A couple stopped to help him. And later on, when they heard about all the shootings and the truck, what kind of truck it was, that's when they reported it to the police. They said that after he got gas, they helped him get gas,

then he headed northwest toward the Oregon-California border. That's what they said there. Now, authorities said that radio reports, because there was all sorts of radio reports out there, like, oh, beware. And also, you know, people turning their crackling radios up in their pickup trucks. They said that basically they named a suspect. What? They named a suspect on the radio, and they put out more reports to say,

that's false, that's not right. The radio named a suspect, but the suspect was just the former owner of the pickup truck. Oh, God damn it. He's the guy that sold it to Emory. So that's how they did that, and they ended up somehow getting it confused and putting that on the air as whatever. This guy's like a thousand miles away he has nothing to do with anything but they said he was a murder suspect so um the uh

they said they had they've talked to several witnesses and they said we believe we have some witnesses before and after the killings in the general area makes sense between 3 30 and 4 p.m earl l smith the highway maintenance worker saw a man fitting that description standing on a road between Denny O. and Winnemucca and provided him a ride because he ran out of gas. So this is this deal here. And then a couple of 110. Well, that's yeah, you'll run right out of gas. He was later observed traveling at an extremely high rate of speed in the same blue truck which was identified as strode's and they um so they're searching the

the area near the nevada oregon border that day to try to find him he's discussed suspect described as being in his early 20s medium length hair and considered extremely dangerous and armed. Yeah. Yeah. If you see him, he'll shoot at you. So that'll do it. And they also said that they're looking for him. And one other thing, they said he was preoccupied with pyramids, possibly, and had a drawing of an inverted pyramid inside another pyramid on the leg of his pants. So that's what they said.

That's what they're looking for now, which is that's very specific. Although in 1980, people had shit drawn all over their jeans all the time. That was good for 70s leftover. So anyway, back to the third after we found back to our timeline here, back to December 3rd, the pickup truck is eventually found near Bellingham, Washington. Abandoned there. It's a long ride.

It's a long ride. Also, there's a murder that happens near there that we don't get into until a little later. So January 4th, 1981, a month later. Wow. A full month later. The calendar has flipped to the next year. There's a man in florida here

he is this is the craziest fucking arrest i've ever heard in my life this is like this is like a crime and sports athlete that did like you know two eight balls of coke and just went ballistic on the rest of this is this is what this sounds like okay a man is arrested while standing on the bumper the rear bumper of a station wagon gripping the luggage rack screaming obscenities as an elderly couple drove down the street at a slow rate of speed that's how he's arrested welcome to florida welcome to standing on the rear bumper by the holding by the luggage rack are you motherfucking son of a bitches you fucking pull over right now you cocksuckers i'll fucking kill all you literally screaming shit like that on the interstate jimmy

well on the interstate that's a florida uber really that's what that's that's what that you son of a bitch i'm giving you one fucking star this is bullshit you didn't have a fucking water for me up on the luggage rack. You didn't have a fucking water on the roof for me up on the luggage rack. You're supposed to have a fucking water. How am I supposed to charge my phone when I just got off the goddamn plane and it says fucking 10% battery. Now I can't take my fucking Instagram, you motherfuckers.

Sir? This isn't a party ride. This isn't fun. Why are there so many people in the car? Don't keep picking people up when your car's full, sir. They pull him over. They're like, sir, you're not allowed to have people riding on your bumper. No, you don't understand.

It's a pandemic. I got six kids to feed. I love the way the newspaper put it. This is the officer's name is Glass. He's a highway patrol trooper. He says that, quote, he found this man perched on the rear bumper and clinging to the luggage rack of a yellow station wagon as it drove slowly down the interstate. I want to know what slowly is to them. It's an old couple in Florida, probably eight miles an hour.

Yeah, I was going to say 25. So when they asked the man his name, as that would obviously be a curiosity, he replied to the cop, you know, do you make a name up maybe, something like that. He says, and I quote, God knew me and my parents knew me. That's it. That's what he said. No, he said, what's your name? But I need your name. And he said, I told you that.

That's all I'm saying. So if you need to know, ask either God or my parents, one of the two. Whoever you can get a hold of first. I'm not sure. One of those two. One of those three? One of those people. My mom never answers her phone.

She screens with the answering machine. So probably try God I would think first but that will maybe leave her a message she might get back to you I'm not sure so he's arrested the man's arrested for hitchhiking by the way that's creative that's a creative I don't know what else do you call that I don't know what the fuck do you call that because all the penalties like all the tickets you would give would be to the driver for someone doing that right you know what i mean there's no penalty they didn't even make a law thinking someone would try to do that on the highway like ride it like it's a shopping cart and you're nine years old standing on it holding on this isn't illegal what can we classify it as

i mean uh well yeah can we give him a seatbelt violation? No, that's to the driver, too. What about I mean, a helmet? He probably should have a helmet on doing that, right? Is there a helmet law for dangling off the back of a I guess hitchhiking? And it's on the I-10, too. It's on the 10. It's like seven lane or seven lanes on each side. The car is driven by an elderly couple.

He was hitchhiking on the side of the road and they slowed down. I guess he like veered, got like out into the lane trying to make them stop. So they slowed way down and tried to avoid hitting him. Right. Because, you know, they're an elderly couple driving. They weren't stopping for him. They were going to keep going. Yeah.

They were just jump on. Well, what he did is he leaped onto the vehicle's roof. Wow. jump on what he did is he leaped onto the vehicle's roof wow he jumped onto the hood and then crawled up onto the roof of the luggage rack and ended up like scurrying his way back to standing on the bumper while holding on the luggage rack the entire time screaming obscenities and threats by the way he jumped on the hood going you motherfucking son of a bitches and then he crawled his way around your fucking son of making me fucking crawl all the way to the back of the goddamn fucking bumper. Jesus Christ.

It's like Mel Gibson in a Lethal Weapon movie. It's what it is. He's chasing Gary Busey over here. What the fuck is happening? And imagine them in the car like, ba-boom, he's climbing up. Martha, do you know him? Were we supposed to pick somebody?

Like, what the shit's happening? He's just calling us anti-Semitic shit. That's what I mean. So that he was still clinging to the car. Like, the cop caught him in the act of, you know, hanging on the back. All they wanted to do was give him a ticket for hitchhiking. They weren't even going to put cuffs on the man. Right.

Okay? Ticket for hitchhiking, but he wouldn't give his name and refuse to sign the ticket he wouldn't even he wouldn't do it he said nope i'm not telling you my name uh so they said okay well then you're under arrest you stupid idiot so they arrest him they get to the police station he gives them three different social security numbers oh no like i don't even know what the fuck you do with that who is this asshole you know what i mean give us your name sir that's all we want you can go the fuck we don't want you here yeah you are out of your mind do you think we want to deal with you we feel the same we hope you're not from here we have enough of you in florida really i know you're someone's cousin here but still you have to go back where

you're from are you on that crocodile you're oh jesus he said that uh the cop said quote i knew i had something other than just a hitchhiker like yeah you had a real you had a real sixth sense for it calm down so he gives three three different social security numbers and three different names okay so they just they just run all the names. Let's just see what we come up with on all of them. On one of them, the National Crime Information Center computer, the NCIC check that they run, it appears a triple murder warrant from Nevada for the murder of the Strodes. So they arrest him for that, and they're're gonna see what the hell is going on now he um they arrest him um like i said he's charged with soliciting a ride on the interstate and refusing

to sign a citation that's what they charge him with soliciting a ride that's a little more than soliciting a ride i would say that's pretty great you got you need a new law for that you're not allowed to forcibly jump onto people's cars and ride them i feel like that's hijacking that's what that is that's that you know what that's like a pirate thing it's not even hijacking it's like pillaging no freeway piracy that's piracy so um now he's being held here uh he gave his name as three different names he gave his name as mark james or joseph by the way it shows up differently in different court documents of the same case literally the same document he'll have it two different ways so mark james or joseph rogers then also mark joseph hayduck h-e-y-d-U-K, Hayduk is another one.

Then he gives the name of, quote, T.P. Fox. Yeah. Not T.P. Dot, T-E-E-P-E-E. T.P. Fox is his other name that he gives. Yeah, because he's native. So they don't know who the, and he has social security numbers for everybody, too. Like, it's it's crazy. None of them match the names, of course.

It's a random number jumbles. But so he said, so they said, come on, tell us who you are. And he said, listen, I told you about God and my parents. God knows me. And we're all part of Mother Nature. I'll say that much. And that's it. So, yeah, it's like well i guess

we just believe anything he says because i agree with two of the things is that how it works i agree with that that's fine so i guess whatever he says is law right yeah he's fine everyone's allowed to ride on people's cars from now on so during fingerprinting he cracks a little bit he refuses to speak but he asks he for a pen, a piece of paper. He writes down on a piece of paper that he belongs to the government. That's it. And he gives a nod, and he's like, mm-hmm. And then he won't say anything else.

That's it. I belong to the government. So they're like, okay. Once they get his fingerprints, they realize that's, this is how they found, you know, the man they were looking for, regardless of his name, his fingerprints were lifted from various items in the Strode residence,

including a diet seven up can gross, a glass jar found in the bedroom under the blanket with the victim's bodies as well. Uh, also a plate on the kitchen table, a glass with coffee in it, a sugar container, and a non-dairy powdered cream container.

Jesus, he's the thirstiest man alive. That's all. He's just drinking, pounding. He's got three different drinks. He's got a plate. God knows what he ate there. Well, we find out. I think he ate a plate of beans,

they found out. So he came to this house, ate a plate of beans, had a cup of coffee. We find out he brought the seven up with him so he didn't raid their soda stash diet seven up that's just soda water and it's just disgusting is what it is no caffeine no sugar yeah carbonated shit so uh in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy j Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit,

but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local

church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. They said diet. I was like, did they have diet 7-Up back then? I guess they did, though. I guess they did.

So I guess they said they got him as a suspect because of the fingerprint evidence and also the eyewitness identification. The district attorney in Nevada said the murders were pretty brutal. The suspect also stole the victim's car. There was no motive we know of.

We've put it down to being the work of a psychopath in technical terms. Thanks, district attorney guy. That's just setting up. Well, he's an irredeemable psychopath that you just put that in the water before a trial. You know, like that's I don't think that's correct right um so anyway uh they said that he was the focus of a manhunt that ranged into canada but they said he had no idea that he went to florida uh at all uh a john doe warrant listing several aliases was filed based on his fingerprints so they they were looking in the northwest for him still they said uh this is the da said quote we were hot on his trail and the truck turned up in

bellingham washington and uh they said that he may have crossed the border as well so it's it's like fucking crazy um then once they get him in a jail cell in florida and they tell him that he's charged with murder, he blurts out that he did kill everybody but in self-defense. Okay. It was all very self-defense, obviously. Yeah. The whole family attacked him. It was a 70-year-old couple and their daughter who has, can't see.

Disabled daughter. Yeah. Yeah. They usually offer, that's what they do. They lure in a stranger, offer him beans and coffee. Right. And then try to kill him. That's how they do. They lure in a stranger, offer them beans and coffee, and then try to kill them. That's how you do it. You catch more flies with beans and coffee than you do with vinegar.

That's the old story. Catch more flies with Diet 7-Up, I've heard. Oh, absolutely. I don't know why. They must like the bubbles because there's nothing else in it. Come on over, James, for beans and coffee. When we're done here, can we go to your kitchen and get some beans and coffee? That's all I want.

I'm not leaving. I'm going to start inviting people over like that. I'm going to sleep at your house. You should. Hey, Benjamin, I'm doing all right. Why don't you come over and have some beans and coffee with me? Even better, I'll have to go out with them for beans and coffee. Want to go out and get some beans and coffee or something even better alfred to go out with them for beans and coffee let's go out get some beans and coffee or something what yeah it's like a plate of beans and a cup of coffee

if you are single get on get on tinder fire that shit up and send that as a message hey girl uh want to go out for beans and coffee beans and coffee if she says yes she really she must really have like a backlog in her stomach or something because she really wants to fire out beans and coffee be the worst thing to eat on a date an hour later you'd both be sitting there just holding your stomachs going no i'm good i'm gonna take a walk around the block real quick i'll be right back that's the way to see if your date will fart on the first date. Yeah. Some beans and coffee? I mean, it's a terrible date. Beans and coffee.

They knew to look for a very dangerous, vicious man who's definitely gassy. That's what they need to do. Check all the truck stop bathrooms. He's probably been there. That truck made it from Nevada to Washington on his ass. It ran out of gas before he got out of Nevada. He made it all the way to Washington. Yeah, all the way there. So Ray Horn, the Kevlar Beard guy, Kevvlar beard identifies him as the same guy who was shooting

at him so they have that to put together there now mark james rogers mark joseph rogers mark james hayduck tp fox tp fox who the fuck is this man let's find out who he is jesus christ well he is a part-time actor who lived in lived in Hollywood shortly before he passed through this area. What? He's 23 years old and he was in Hollywood trying to be an actor and apparently lost his fucking mind and decided to go through the desert for no reason and end up doing this. He had no. Wow. His story is whacked.

So, like we said, he identifies himself as Mark James Roberts or Mark James Rogers. Later on, the check revealed that the NCIC thing revealed that he was Hayduck. It was Mark James Hayduck. And the district attorney said, hey, duck is the name we know him by. That's the name on his birth certificate. We know he has family in California. Yeah, but that's not really the name on his birth certificate because I did some research here because it must be the name on his identification, but not on his birth certificate because we find out that his brother is Edward Hayduck Jr. And his mother's name is Susan Erdman.

And Kenneth Hayduck, Kenneth Hayduck is his brother. And Edward Hayduck Sr Kenneth Hayduck is his brother. And Edward Hayduck, Sr. is his adoptive father. So apparently he's got I think his mother is his mother, his father. This is his stepfather, I guess, who adopted him. Got it. But I don't know who Rogers is. That must be his father's name because that's not his mother's name. Or perhaps he just picked it because the world will never go see a Hayduck movie.

Maybe, but I think that was actually, Rogers is actually his name name. I think that's his actual original name. And then he took Hayduck, and then he was using both, and then he just TP Fox, he pulled out of his ass because he's crazy. So this was all. TP Fox is a good stage name. That's not bad. No, it's a good one.

I think that's what he was going for. He's like, I'm going to get work as a Native American. That's how it is, even though I'm a slender white guy. Yeah. That rivals it. That's good. She comes in, they're like, oh, we expected something different. Expected someone completely different.

You were much prettier than what I assumed was going to happen right now. So, yeah, I thought it was going to be a large man with flames tattooed on his head. We thought Bam Bam Bigelow was coming in here. I expected Bam Bam Bigelow. We figured he was coming in to say hello to everybody. I thought it was awfully strange that Bam Bam Bigelow wrote a story about a 16-year-old girl that was pregnant starring Michael Cera.

Very strange. We thought, but you know what? This is what people do they're they're diversifying what they're doing sometimes you do this sometimes you do that hilarious so he uh they do a little research on the guy here uh they had no idea they said that he traveled to florida and he took the exact path that ted bundy took to florida really like they don't know if it's on purpose or what but it was like he did the exact route that ted bundy took to florida really like they don't know if it's on purpose or what but it was like he did the exact route that ted bundy to florida which is weird like a strange thing

um he is divorced he's 23 he's been married before he lived in ohio for a while that was where he was recently now his mother lives in bakersfield california so i don't know if he took off went to oh to Ohio on his own or whatever. He was married to a woman named Yvonne Sampson. They got divorced, apparently. Now, apparently he was an informant at one point for the police there, we find out. In 23 years, he has done a lot.

Yeah, and this isn't from him talking shit. This is Ralph Nicholas Forte, who's a police officer from Ohio. He says that in 1976 that Mark Rogers, we're just going to call him Rogers here because that's his main name. That's what it is in the court documents, Rogers. So he says that Rogers was indicted for selling hash at one point. He had a pretty decent size hash operation and following the indictment they made him an offer to become an informant for a reduced sentence and he took it so he takes that he agrees to snitch and uh the officer said that he worked closely with rogers

for about seven months and became close to both rogers and his wife throughout that period now this officer says that he did have some problems with Rogers during the time and after the time that he was working with him as an informant, specifically that Rogers was giving drugs to this officer's wife, which is a problem. I mean, come on, man. Jesus Christ, man. what i mean come on man so he jesus christ man so at one point he's arrested and found in possession of uh weapons and burglary tools as well and um he ends up uh i guess rogers threatened the officer who arrested him as well that you know he's gonna have him killed and all this shit here so um apparently that the uh he had threatened forte as well and but he did say that rogers it was pretty common for informants to threaten you he said you know you're working with criminals so right they're threatening you

like criminals do and uh he said that that was normal but he was a good informant he said he was besides the besides threatening my life and giving my wife drugs i gotta say the guy did his bang up job it's pretty good hilarious did a fucking good job this guy i can't lie he said that uh he said rogers never acted on the threats so you know he's a good guy he uh apparently had pleaded guilty to felony aggravated assault in 1976 and then another felony aggravated assault charge in 1977 he's had some issues uh this is rogers here in the 1976 aggravated assault he received a sentence of one to five years in prison but the sentence was suspended and he was given one year of probation that was probably because of his informer work that was the incident happened at a party

where he and another man had been drinking and got in a fight Mark suffered a broken nose Rogers gets a broken nose and he cuts a man with a beer bottle so with a broken beer bottle that's how shit rolls

yeah that's a party he says that quote he was only trying to protect himself and that he did not want to get in a fight. He also said that the victim that he had to stab was under the influence of drugs and alcohol. He's like, so you know how that works. I mean, drunk people, you got to cut him with a broken beer bottle, obviously. That's normal. So the other charge in 1977, he pled guilty but failed to appear for a pre-sentencing hearing. So there was that.

The second incident, as the report said, here he got in trouble and he stabbed another gentleman who was trying to attack him, he said. So two stabbings in two years is one with a broken beer bottle. You can tell what he likes to do. Yeah. Well, he said this stabbing was because the people found out he was a snitch and they were threatening him. Oh, so he had to defend himself with stabbing. So he stabbed a guy twice and almost killed him. So he was got an M.O., though.

Yeah. He was lucky to not get attempted murder. Only aggravated assault with a weapon. So what do you do when you're low, Jimmy? You've done all this shit. You're super low. You're in Ohio. You're white. Your marriage isn't working out.

Yeah, you're fucking you're getting arrested for stabbing people because you're an informant because you got busted for selling hash. And then you're giving it to a cop's wife and all of this shit. I write a book about this shit first of all you move to hollywood to fulfill your dream of being an actor is what you do jimmy what else would you do what it's pretty so he does that he moves to hollywood to fulfill his dream and what he does here is he takes some acting classes so he's got some training he moves in with a guy who had just retired and he just retired after doing the only thing i could find that he did on imdb so this is a strange thing but he was a an assistant director for a television show uh his name is george douglas morrison jr the george he doesn't use he goes

by douglas morrison jr which is hard to find info on because you know what jim morrison's middle name is no it's douglas so when you look him up all you get is jim morrison so it's very hard and you have to go to google page 14 to fucking get to this guy so george douglas morrison jr here he uh was assistant director second unit director and assistant director for a television show called Family. It ran from 1978 to 1980. It had like I saw on the list of all the guest stars. It had like every like 80s and 90s actor in it. Like when they were young, Helen Hunt was on it.

And Dana Platoato the different strokes girl who died there all that and uh like all these different meredith baxter from family ties yeah it was just baxter at the time on the iftp that's what i said so all of that yeah all these different people were in it whatever so he was in a second assistant director and a second unit director on a bunch of episodes so that's what he did so moved in with rogers moves in with this guy he's an older guy yeah um wonder what he wants i was gonna say what do you think this is an odd relationship normally some jerk off you know guy with a felony record who just came from the midwest shows up in hollywood to be a dream of

an actor like there aren't a shitload of like people who've worked in hollywood that are like oh i have a spare room in case you need it that's just not how it works listen to the hotel cecil uh bonus episode that we did and we talk a lot about like that's not how it works no it just doesn't they don't care yeah even if you're a 21 year old, an attractive girl, they're like, oh, fuck yourself. Like this guy, they don't care at all about him. So he moves in with him. This guy ends up like paying for getting his teeth capped and shit. He pays like eighteen hundred dollars for him to get his teeth capped.

So he would have a better world, a better chance of return for shit like this. Can't imagine what you'd have to do for that. I feel like you just have to be a good friend. cap so he would have a better the world a better chance of acting return for shit like this i can't imagine what you'd have to do for that i feel like you just have to be a good friend yeah you do crosswords on sundays at least with them you know shoulder to cry on that's all it is yeah you know you have best friend stuff yeah go fishing with me that's what i mean fishing just in case you know something's on your mind i'm here for you buddy we'll talk about it just need someone to go with you to the dmv keep you company you know what i mean just that sort of thing well i got a shoulder to grip and grind back into my fucking cock you know how that goes

we'll get into that they talk to him and ask him the nature of the relationship it's pretty interesting here now so something else that he was getting into, he got himself hooked up with what he called a guru in Hollywood as well. And after that, this guru convinced him that he was receiving messages from gods. So different gods, not just like the main god, all sorts of gods. And started him thinking about pyramids, gurus, and Mount Olympus. And he apparently had some really strange burgoo stew that he mixed up in his mind and came up with all sorts of weird thought processes and weird whole worlds he figured out based on pyramids, gurus, Mount Olympus,

and mixing it all together and some weird thing and if you stack scientology yeah yeah if you stacked it just the right way you have the perfect jenga fucking tower and it's perfect and everything's fine um so la it's fucking nuts so he was so upset at one point but that he's been like totally led astray in the world because he didn't know about the mount olympus and the pyramids why do that he yanked all the caps off his teeth on his own what which sounds painful it doesn't sound like something you want to just grab a fucking oh my god flathead screwdriver and start working. Right. That sounds rough. Jenna Jameson did that shit. She pulled her own fucking braces off to go dance in clubs because they were like, how

old are you? And she's like, I'm 25. And they're like, you look 16. Yeah. Because she was. Yeah. They were like, we'll pay you extra. So she yanked all that shit off her teeth.

And then they were like, how old are you? She's like, 25. And they're like, you probably are. Yeah probably are yeah get on up there honey who's my cherry pie is next that's right you're after candy she's gonna do the first half then you come in Second chorus is when you come in. That's how it works. Yeah. So, yeah, he was upset about that. Now, I guess this Morrison, the director guy, had paid $1,800 for the dental work. Wow. So he was like, what are you doing? Later on, someone said, quote, Mark had only stumps where those teeth were. Right. So, yeah. When you get caps had only stumps where those teeth were. Right.

So, yeah. When you get caps, they grind it all down. Yeah. So, yeah, that's a problem. Now he's just got these little weird stumps. Gross. Yeah, I guess he ended up, he left his home. He left, what's his name, Morrison's home.

And he'd been living with them in Hollywood. He said he was going up to visit friends in San Bernardino, but he ended up instead in Wells, Nevada, on December 1st. That's where he was. He was hitchhiking at Winnemucca the next day, and he was picked up by a rancher named Robert Schott and driven to Imlay. And another guy, David Hartshorn, who was a mining engineer in Imlay, dropped him off in front of the Strode residence.

That's how this happened. So we found his path. This Robert Schott, he says that on December 1st, 1980, he's the first guy who gave him a ride. He said he gave this is the day before the killings. He gave Rogers a ride. And he said as soon as Rogers climbed into his truck, Rogers looked nervously into the back of the truck and in the rearview mirror constantly, like real sketchy. And he said that Rogers' conversation was very erratic and that Rogers made him uneasy, didn't like having him in the truck. He said that Rogers introduced himself as John and said that he was a musician going to Reno to look for a job.

That was his story. I'm John. I was a musician going to reno to look for a job that was his story i'm john i'm a musician he said at one point out of nowhere he just burst out quote you may not believe it but i'm a good american i'm on your side i would fight for my country okay literally they were just driving down the road and he was like huh what literally the guy was like what was that like he said did you want to pull over for coffee and beans sir yeah what are you shouting at me for we're going on a coffee and bean date i thought that's what this was so that that's what he says and he's like okay like that's some weird shit to say i yeah it's not like he's fucking they were driving and the driver turned and went you're fucking communist aren't you it was like no so uh on december 2nd uh between 12 15 and 12 45 p.m on december 2nd so this is you

know somewhere 45 to 15 minutes before the murder occurred uh david hartshorn who's a geologist we said and uh what would i say he was whatever whatever, some kind of engineer. He saw Rogers standing alongside the road and offered him a ride. And he said that Rogers introduced himself to him as TP and said, hi, this is what he said to him. Hello, I'm TP. I live in a pyramid. Yeah. Like a TV. Yeah.

No, I'm TP. That's what I mean. He has like a triangle um yeah no i'm tp that's what i mean he has like a triangle obsession yeah i'm tp and i live in a pyramid and he might have said do you mean the other way around you're a pyramid and you live in a tp because that i get i've seen it that sounds a little more believable we ain't got a whole lot of pyramids around these parts see it's just outside of egypt you don't see a whole lot of pyramids in western united states it just didn't and also you're gonna have to wait about uh 20 more years for that one to be built down there in that vegas that's all it's gonna be beautiful though is that where you live you live at the luxor so he loves triangles and he went to a state with like i think it's the only state with a triangular border.

Got a little weird triangle there down by Vegas, yeah, with Arizona. That's wild. So, yeah, he said, Rogers asked him, did you see the pyramid? Uh-huh. Like, when you picked me up? No. You saw it, didn't you? And when he said no, the guy was like, well, no saw it didn't you and he when he said no the guy was like well

no i didn't see the pyramid rogers pointed to the north and said quote it's up there okay okay yeah tp yeah hi i'm tp i live in a pyramid did you see it no it's over there so wherever we're going we're almost there right okay he said that um uh this guy hartshorn this is funny he told rogers no that's majuba what are you arguing with this guy for this is beyond arguing you don't argue the point of geography with this fucking guy right you know what i mean like this guy just go oh oh yep there it is sure i'll take you right there up here we are we're at the pier at mid-bye and then you shove them out the door and you peel away and you go 100 miles an hour when a toddler says wild shit you just go is that right for real wow huh i didn't know that that's what you say all the time i didn't know

that wow so uh when he said that's majuba he said robert rogers got very mad at him and like clenched his fists and said no that's mount olympus okay so this is why you don't argue geography with fucking lunatics you pick up on the side of the road who claim to be named tp and live in fucking pyramids you just let that shit go if you're willing to pick people up on the side of the road who claim to be named tp and live in fucking pyramids you just let that shit go if you're willing to pick people up on the side of the road you should be willing to give up a lot a lot of facts to just whatever the fuck they say yeah sounds right great so at this point rogers turns to him after the mount olympus thing there was a silence for a minute because uh this heart shorn was probably like he's gonna he's gonna kill me this guy's gonna kill me i picked up a murderer i'm dead this is great he says that rogers turns to him and says are you the one were you the one that was shooting

those rockets off of mount olympus those rockets off of mount olympus first of all mount olympus obviously isn't here uh hart shorn says, no, wasn't me. Sorry. And then Rogers said, good, and was, like, relieved. And then he was angry, and he said, quote, somebody is shooting rockets off of Mount Olympus, and one of these days it will hit my pyramid and blow me up. Oh, boy. So this is fucking ridiculous. Obviously, this is a, you know, these assholes, they're trying to they're going to hit my pyramid.

Jimmy, this is I'd say this to you all the time. I'm like, dude, please watch my pyramid. It's unacceptable with the rockets and the pyramids. So Hardshorn tries to change the subject and bring it back to small talk out of this type of shit and says, so where are you from? He literally says, where are you from? And says where are you from and rogers said quote this is my land i own it all as he as he put his arms out to the expanses literally no talking so all right so you live in a pyramid you have all the land but you choose to take this part of it and live in a pyramid okay i understand what's happening here so he said hartshorn gave him a can of seven up to drink and and uh he i guess went to the strode residence and dropped him off there was the next house he came upon now it makes sense why he dropped him

off there because i'm like why would you drop him off here he didn't request to be dropped off at the strode house this guy just dropped him off at a house because he couldn't have him in the fucking car anymore because he's talking about pyramids and rockets and Mount Olympus and shit. He's out of his mind. Maybe they'll help you. Maybe they'll help you. Drops him off in front of the Strode residence here.

Now, there's a sign up at the front of the residence in handwriting that says, this property protected by Winchester. There. So, yeah, they're protected by Winchester. There. Yeah, they're miners in the desert. So Rogers turned to fucking turned to Hartshorn and said this property is protected by Winchester.

Is this a setup? So he was all suspicious that he was like dropping him off to be murdered. So he turned to him and asked if it was a setup and the guy's like, no, enjoy your seven up. Bye. I'm just dropping you off somewhere where at least i know these people are armed yeah just in case you're crazy maybe they'll take care of your shit so yeah he goes in there he eats beans apparently the family came home like right

after he fucking got got in there he ate some beans had half a cup of coffee they came home and this happened basically so on december 5th, three days after the killings, Rogers had tried to get into Canada at that point. He was turned away from the Canadian border because the Canadian officials determined he had no means of supporting himself. He didn't have any money. We're not letting some vagrant American in here. Shit all over his legs. Yeah, with weird pyramids and shit talking about mount olympus well this is another reason why uh when they were talking to him and uh they

said you can't come in you don't have any money blah blah blah he said sure i can number one i don't need money because i got other things going for me number two borders mean nothing to me because i am the emperor of north america so it's fine yeah goodbye the emperor of north america another uh when he went to talk to another official he called himself the king of north america so we're not sure of his official title jimmy that's the thing we don't know if he is the emperor or the king i guess I guess you can switch back and forth when you're the emperor and the king. You know? So not sure. He's the guy in charge.

That's all it means. What he's saying is, I'm fine. I'll go through this border, and you don't really have dominion over me here. I'm obviously in charge. I own all of this land. Didn't you talk to the other guy? So they said he said a bunch of other weird shit that was just like pyramids mount olympus all this strange shit and they were like yeah yeah you're not coming into

the country sorry they turned his ass back around and uh they also said that they found the strode's abandoned pickup truck at the uh scene of an accident that's where it was ended up being found he got into an accident then walked on foot to the Canadian border. Oh, my God. Like a lunatic. Now, the the district attorney in Nevada said the last we heard of him, he was in Montreal. We traced a phone call to an individual we were watching, and the call came from Montreal. But he never got to Montreal. So I don't know what the hell they're talking about.

They said that he was developed as a suspect also in a murder in Washington state. There are some similarities, but we can't confirm it yet. They never end up going further with that. But there's a lot of talk at that time of some strong similarities in the manner of death and actually the location, the day he location the day he was there all this type of shit so there were nine people and he set him up like a pyramid shit like that yeah and then shot them all down and left a knife in one of their chests so i this this this case is too long to get into that but i'm definitely going to do a little more research i'll give you guys an update next week on that too i want to find out exactly the details of the murder then i gotta do some newspaper archive hunting and all that sort of

shit so it's a it's a it's a definite rabbit hole to go down but i'm really curious about this shit so i'm curious he could who knows what the hell he's he's just shooting at everybody he sees he could have killed how many people well bonus that one up yeah well yeah that's might be a good bonus episode or maybe just a we'll find out how much is there if it's enough for something we'll do it like that so uh he all this and they arrest him based on him throwing himself on a car in a state that they didn't even know he was in and he could have gotten away with it so he just got fucked himself over every minute here he's held on one million dollar bond after this and uh he refused to waive extradition and all that sort of shit they obviously end up being able to extradite him

now the pathologist here says that the evidence indicates that the first person he attacked was 72 year old may uh mary yeah he attacked mary. Yeah. I guess he stabbed her in the back as she entered her bedroom. That was the first attack. He said that Roger struck so hard that two ribs were broken and droplets of blood hit the ceiling when he withdrew the knife. Wow. So it was a real violent in and out. Now, Emery was the next person to enter the room, and I guess he heard a commotion. Yeah.

He entered the room and was face to face with Rogers here. So apparently, Strode received, according to the pathologist, a slight stab wound in the back in a brief scuffle before rogers buried the knife to the hilt in his chest wow a butcher knife to the hilt so he had two stab wounds one minor and one was obviously all the way in but he didn't die he was walking around with a stab wound with a knife sticking out of his chest fucking chest he's a 71 year old minor jim this is a tough man you know what i mean these are these are rugged people he was gonna pull it out and call him a pussy probably you know so i'm gonna put you back in your pyramid son he's gonna pull it out uh handle the man and then go back to work you shoot a man in the beard and he just takes the bullet out and throws it out of his truck like this is a tough group of

people dude this is crazy so uh yeah apparently Rogers, then he was still stumbling around with the knife sticking out of his chest. So Rogers shot him twice with his own. He stole the guy's gun, obviously, because they had guns everywhere in this trailer that he had access to before they came home. He got himself a gun, shoots him twice with his own pistol. Then he shoots Mary as well, who apparently had crawled into the corner of the room and was still alive, so he shoots her as well and ends that. So, it's much worse with the daughter, Mary and Treadwell.

Okay. She had, she is almost blind in one eye, and her other eye, she went completely blind in and had just been fitted with a glass eye. Oh my god. She's 41 years old, one glass eye, other eye almost completely blind in and had just been fitted with a glass eye. Oh, my God. She's 41 years old, one glass eye, other eye almost completely blind, and also walked with a leg brace as she had a problem with her everything here.

So she had a disability there. They said that he just placed the gun to her back and fired once and then um shot her she fell down and then he uh shot emory again even though he was already dead he just figured he was tough so pop another one in to make sure he's dead then he dragged her uh dragged miriam into a pie into the pile of bodies at some point though he tied her started tying her wrist with an electrical cord but didn't i guess gave up on it because she was dead yeah so uh the but this it was the second bullet the reason why he shot emory again was because the second bullet he shot at him got was the one that hit the pocket watch so that didn't do what he wanted it to do and that's when they got the kind of the time of

death they these pathologists here uh said that the minute hand had been blown off the watch but the hour hand was almost at the one o'clock mark when he found it so they can tell by the hour hand you don't need your minute hand and uh yeah they said that it's unusual to be able to to determine the order of the multiple wounds of the victims, but they were able to do it from the amount of bleeding. Because he started on Mary, then went to Emery, so the later wounds have much less bleeding because they had bled out a lot. So they could tell exactly when, by the amount of blood,

they could tell exactly when the wounds were delivered. Wild. It's pretty fucking interesting here. Yeah. They said the first shot, Strode was shot three times. First through the chest from front to back. Second through the chest from right to left. The bullet hit the watch.

The third was in his back. The final bullet was lodged in his backbone after he already was dead. God damn it. Yeah. And Strode had been stabbed twice with a butcher knife. Still stuck in from the second wound. The knife was his knife from the kitchen, a family butcher knife. They said that the cause of Miss Strode's death was the stab wound, which appeared to have been done with the same knife.

He said she must have been very close to death when she was shot from a very close range in the left breast with a bullet lodging in her stomach because she didn't bleed that much. Miriam, like we said, was shot very close distance, which was evidenced by the gunpowder in the wound. So it was right on there. An electrical cord had been tied around her wrist after she died. So there's that. Now, he pleads not guilty and

not guilty by reason of insanity. He's, you know, which I would expect that, honestly, from this. Okay. That's what you expect. You know, I mean, if you're an attorney and they just pull you in and sit you down with this guy and like, here's your client. And you talk to him for five minutes about Mount Olympus and pyramids and rockets and shit. You're going to go, this is insanity defense. I'm sorry.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. You you jumps on my back and tries to escape that way that's the other thing too he jumped on the back of my station wagon as i tried to pull out of the jail right so they file for a change of venue because this is a very rural area and every i mean this spreads like why everybody everybody knows about this there's only 200 people to tell exactly so they said back then there was less There's only 200 people to tell. Exactly. So they said back then there was less. There was like 100 people to tell. Right.

So they said that generally there had been an emotionally charged and prejudicial publicity in local newspapers. His motion stated that the makeup of the community is largely agricultural and mining, with many community members living in remote areas, as the victims did. community members living in remote areas as the victims did. And they said that I guess basically the attorney said that during the course of her representation and her residence is in Pershing County, she said that she's been approached on numerous occasions by local citizens who believe that they are like normal people who would sit on a jury. And they said they were approached by people asking me if she was representing the defendant. And one or more of the people said that he should be taken out and hanged as it was done in the old days.

So that's the sentiment of the town is take him out and hang him. So she's like, maybe a change of venue. You know what I mean? Yeah. So she's like, maybe a change of venue. You know what I mean? Yeah. So they said that other members of the community had seen him in the days prior to December 1980.

And he basically showed up for a few days in this area and was a fucking menace. People remember him from that. He showed up, got in bar fights, broke cue sticks in a fit of rage while playing pool and fighting with people and also was loitering in mining camp areas which is not allowed to do so they all knew this was going to happen they were all like this guy's a lunatic everybody kind of stay away from him and then somebody dropped him off in front of someone's house here yeah uh so they uh apparently they said that uh uh members of the community who've been interviewed by the state as witnesses also who knew the victims all expressed that their family, their friendly and helpful nature. They were very well liked in the community. They said that he's a young transient who's lived in Hollywood.

His lifestyle is totally different from people in the local community. So they believe that they're going to be prejudicial against him. Blah, blah, blah. He raises all this stuff. They submit that the jury selection will reveal that he can't receive a fair trial. They said it would be impossible for an outside hippie type to receive a fair and impartial trial considering the murder of local citizens. They said, with only one exception, each of the 54 potential jurors examined about this

had prior knowledge and had heard something about the crime or about him. 53 of 54 had heard about it. So maybe this sounds like a change of venue. And the 54th was lying his ass off. That's the thing. He's like, no, I never heard that before. He's the guy who's like, O.J. Who?

I don't nope i don't watch football or movies or television or anything i'm living a bubble so they uh jesus christ they also said that uh five of the people on the jury were friendly with local law enforcement seven had difficulty accepting any insanity defense at any time they said they could never accept it and two functionally equated first degree murder with the mandatory imposition of the death penalty no matter the case that's the jury pool that's his jury and they're going they're going for the death penalty as well here so yeah uh he's charged with this obviously attorney files the affidavit revealing that all of this stuff. And the only objection to the they also request a sequester. Can you sequester them so they can't go home and gossip?

The only objection that the prosecution had to the sequestration was it was inconvenient to the jurors. And they said, no change of venue. No, no sequestering them. Fuck it. We're good. We'll get the people who know about the case and then they can go home and talk to their fucking family about it and their neighbors and gossip and everything else so this is this is not good no this is so this is begging for appeals to overturn the shit that's not good so the trial comes up and uh his attorney says that

he can't remember any of this happening. He just doesn't even remember it. He doesn't know. That's what they said. He's so crazy. He doesn't know. He just doesn't understand. He doesn't remember anything. He doesn't know, but he would like to have everyone over to his pyramid for beans and coffee. Other than that, he has no idea what's happening. So they said that he was a paranoid young man this is virginia shane her his co-counsel he's a paranoid young man who was running away from

something before he ever came to the strode family's mind here uh they said that they said that uh once there he saw plenty to feed his paranoia she said including in the yard between where he was dropped off and the door uh there was a dead dog who had been shot 19 times wow that's a lot of times to kill a dead dog i don't know why james that's reloading several times i don't know what you would i don't know if they were like they killed it and then they were like fuck it this is fun to shoot a dog this is crazy but somebody shot a dog 19 times and then a sign scrawled in large letters at the entrance to the Strode residence warning, this property is protected by Winchester. Numerous bumper stickers proclaiming the virtues of owning guns, as well as, the virtues, I think that's a great way to put it, as well as, quote, seven guns scattered around the house in plain view. It was lying on tables and

shit that's where he picked one up and shot them with it yeah so i mean but that's and that's even reckless yeah this is just all over the house there's no kids around but still probably a little too accessible yeah so they said that uh uh the the district attorney also has instructed every witness to write the dates and times that they saw Rogers. That way he made a map right up through the timeline and across everything of how he got there and all sorts of shit. The D.A. says he's going to call 24 prosecution witnesses and present 150 to 200 exhibits, which is a lot, including about 100 items gathered at the murder scene here. One guy isn't going to testify, Ray Horn,

the guy who, Kevlar Beard. Kevlar Face. Kevlar Face here, he's said that he's in Missouri. He said he doesn't have time for all this shit. He's losing money. Literally he said, I'm losing money. I can't come all the way over there and I'm going to lose money. I hear the Ozarks pushing meth on said, they couldn't find him to subpoena him.

And they figured that he was in the, uh, that he's in Missouri is what they figured. So instead they just, uh, had his, his testimony entered into evidence anyway. So that's a little shady and death penalty case as well. Um, yeah, he said that something hit me in the face and then it was a beard. And then it was a bullet in his beard. It's worse than a bee in your bonnet. A bullet in your beard. I'd rather have a bee in my bonnet.

So they allowed Horn's previous testimony to be read into record over the objection, obviously defense council and uh also testimony from joe schleff schleffler who's a resident deputy at imlay indicated that authorities were unable to serve horn the subpoena so they let him do it now first prosecution witness is going to be douglas morrison jr the uh the assistant director on family here, this is going to be a blast. Yes, they bring him up here. I guess they said Rogers has been living with him for three years. Oh, boy. He moved there at 20.

He's now 23. And he's been three years been living with him. So defense counsel, who is from the public defender's office, just blunt counsel, uh, who was from the state, the public defender's office just bluntly asked Morrison, who, by the way, is like 68, 70 years old, uh, asked Morrison if the relationship had been homosexual in nature. That's the words he used. And before Morrison could answer, the judge asked born what relevance that had to the trial. He's like, Oh, that's some appealable shit here. Hold on. It's 1980. What are we doing are we doing yeah oh back up here that's a that's a real that's a real hand grenade in 1980 you know what i mean back then shit they'd make a big deal out of that especially in rural nevada

this isn't west hollywood here so um he said that uh the judge said that he had a lot of trouble with that but he's going to allow the witness to answer anyway but i want to know yes but you know what i'm kind of curious actually what's going on i'm looking at him i'm looking at you i want to know what's going on so morrison says this is the wow this is answer is he says quote i don't believe it was a homosexual relationship we were just very good friends here's the thing about a a gay relationship you know if you're in one yeah because you've seen the guy's penis that's how you know if you're in it you've probably tasted it you yeah you know a lot about his penis that you wouldn't know otherwise so i'm gonna say that don't believe it was is probably i don't believe that we'll put it that we were experimenting is

that what we mean what do you maybe yeah i don't yeah i don't care either way and it's it's ridiculous that that shit would have to be that someone would have to out themselves on the stand like that obviously i don't right that's bullshit honestly you know that's dumb if it really didn't have it if he tried to kill morrison that might that would have relevance was it a lover's quarrel what did they were they you know what level were they fighting on did he owe rent money or did he If he tried to kill Morrison, that might that would have relevance. Was it a lover's quarrel? What did they were they? You know, what level were they fighting on? Did he owe rent money or did he cheat on him?

Which one? Like, there's a big difference in those in terms of emotional reaction. But this is 1980. It's Hollywood. It's an old man that has a young boy staying with him for three years and paying for his teeth to further his acting career and make him more handsome give me a fucking break here we know what's happening we're not judging it we don't care but come on we're all looking around going are you fucking come on bro so he said rogers he had spoken to him on the telephone a few days before the murder and rogers told him that he was uh planning to

return to hollywood to continue his efforts to be an actor he's like i'll be back soon don't worry keep my side of the bed warm or whatever just out here in joshua tree on ecstasy just i'll be back in a minute burning it up and burning man so uh also they bring on two ohio cops who talk about his previous criminal record because that's what they're hinging the death penalty on is he has previous convictions for felony assault. Yeah, basically. So that's what they're doing. That's his and also depraved indifference and all that, you know, like not depraved indifference, like the particularly depraved, torturous malice habitual problem who's escalating. Exactly.

Now, they said that he stabbed two men four years ago he said that he pleaded guilty and served time in jail for the assaults and got the suspended sentence and all that uh the his attorney roger's attorney said that the stabbings occurred during a drunken brawl and uh they testified that he'd been convicted of felony assault for cutting another man with a broken bottle. And then Forte, the guy whose wife he gave drugs to, he said that that he served as a narcotics informant after one of his assault sentences were shortened to do that. He pled guilty to felony aggravated assault charge in 76 and then pled guilty again in 77. But he said that the 76 assault he received two to five or one to five years in prison in the suspended one but the 77 charge he pled guilty but fared to fail to appear

for a pre-sentencing hearing so then he took off and went to california and just was there for three years so that's what happened so let's bring in the psychiatrist because this is and psychologists and all these people because this is the this is the curious part here. Yeah. So the defense presents the testimony of expert witnesses who indicate that he is a paranoid schizophrenic at the time of the evaluation and that his behavior at the time of the commission of the crimes was consistent with psychotic paranoid delusions schizophrenia psychosis and that rogers could not tell right from wrong or the quality or nature of his acts he's fucking batshit is what they're saying he's he's all right completely and doesn't know what he's doing so but at this point though do we blame him do we blame society or do we blame that fucking la, do we blame him? Do we blame society or do we blame that fucking L.A. guru? Do we blame him or do we blame the guy who dropped him off in front of a house? Or that guy.

Who knows? Delivered some Satan to that family. Jesus Christ. Here you go. Enjoy your diet seven up and sent him into a house. Christ. So this is Dr. Ira b paulie uh the dr ira here says that quote my opinion is that mark rogers was so virtually psychotic at the time of the crime that he was suffering

from paranoid delusions that he had been under considerable stress probably in terms of exposure the night before and somewhat because of his dietary intake and given his emotional status that he was actively psychotic and under the influence of being paranoid that he was incompetent and unable to distinguish between right and wrong that he was psychotic and that he was in a very frightened and paranoid state, which is clearly documented by witnesses who saw him immediately before and others who described his behavior immediately after the murders. immediately before and others who described his behavior immediately after the murders. And that is and that this is consistent with my reevaluation of him several months later. And that this is the description of a psychotic, paranoid, schizophrenic. And on the basis of that diagnosis, I'm saying that he was delusional, therefore unable to distinguish between right and wrong at the time. So he says, Ira, that's Dr. Ira. so he says that's ira that's dr ira now another psychologist martin e gut ride gut ride gut ride phd he testified for the prosecution and stated that it was his opinion that rogers had an anti-social personality disorder and a quote schizo type personality disorder rather than a

mental illness he's got disorders but not illnesses he's fucked up but i wouldn't say sick so that's what the right medication he might be able to have a day job that's what i'm telling you i think he can make it i really do or at least an acting gig he doesn't even need medication for that he can talk about pyramids and normal yeah he's basically just fucking shia labouf you know what i mean like he's john travolta without a without a fucking license a plane john travolta with no plane or fancy wigs so uh beyond that though he thought this doctor believed that rogers due to his acting training was malingering and pretending to be mentally ill.

He says this is a big act is what he thinks there. So that's his theory. So those are the dueling psychiatrists now are dueling doctors. Now, mom takes the stand. His mom. Yeah. The defense calls his mom because his mom's got a theory as well of what set him off. I can't wait.

Okay. Now, Susan Boynton is her name. She said that her son became very distressed after she revealed to him in September of 1980, a few months before the murders, revealed to him that his eight-year-old stepsister had been sexually assaulted by a stepfather. Okay. She said it happened two years years earlier but she didn't tell rogers about it until september 1980 which was about two and a half months before he left the

area and ended up in nevada so she said that she's since divorced the stepfather and the daughter has moved back east to live with her natural father so uh the mother tried to uh come to bakersfield to take her from the stepfather who was beating her. But when they couldn't agree on how many personal belongings she told him, she wasn't helping her. She told him she wasn't he wasn't helping her and she didn't want to see him again. That's what ended up happening. So that's the mother's testimony. And after that.

So the defense puts up a psychiatrist saying, you know, yeah, he's crazy. We think he's real crazy. And then the mother going, this is why I think he went crazy because of the molestation of his step sister. They think he's crazy. And here's a trigger. Yeah. Here's this. He's crazy.

And here's why. It's basically what they tried to do. And then they said, well, defense rests. That's about enough of our from us, I think. Oh, that's balls. Less than a day. They said that was it. That's about enough from us, I think. Oh, that's balls. Less than a day, they said. That was it.

That was all. So the closing, in the closing arguments here, the prosecutor, Richard Wagner, he, old Dickie Wags, he depicted him as an aspiring Hollywood actor, wandering by chance into the Strode's isolated cabin 30 miles north of Imlay while they were gone, helping himself to a plate of beans and a cup of coffee, then waylaying the victims when they returned. Oh boy. Sinister.

Very sinister. The defense. Charged up on coffee and beans. Oh man. That's what happens when you got beans and coffee. You don't want to get the fight over with quick because you got to fart. I'm going to let one rip if I try to wrestle with Elmer. I'm sorry, Emery.

I feel like if you threw a knife too hard at somebody, you'd shit your pants. I think so. Just flexing your stomach muscles. What are the odds that Emery was wearing overalls, do you think? It's like 97%, right? Yeah, it's like 97 right probably not it's pretty yeah okay i just want to make sure not that that's like i said he's an old miner it's a but still it's either overalls or coveralls either way there's an alls in the end there's some kind of it's alls i got clothes alls that's what that is all my clothes have alls in them throw me a pair of

them alls cover i don't care which one god damn dealer's choice dealer's choice it's all good so uh the defense says nobody will ever know what went on in the cabin that's what virginia shane says but even if the district attorney's theories were true she told them uh that she said if all this is true, then Rogers is so sick, paranoid and so delusional that he's incapable of premeditated murder. You have to find him not guilty by reason of insanity. They said, I mean, his eight year old stepsister was sexually molested by her step by a stepfather two years earlier and he found out about it. That's crazy. She said he met that guru guy who screwed his brain all up.

He all these, you know how it is in Hollywood. There's these crazy gurus like Charles Manson, you know, that's what happens. And started him thinking about pyramids, gurus and Mount Olympics and Mount Olympus. And he got all mixed up is what she said. She talked about him yanking off all the teeth, all the caps off his teeth, all of this shit. She said also he or I'm sorry this is the other council robert bork he said he did not know these people uh and did not go up there intending to kill anyone he had no idea where he was going and they said he was dropped off in front of the strode

he says the strode compound nothing with a trailer can be considered a compound i would say with a scrawled sign proclaiming this property is protected by winchester and he said he uh he asked the guy who dropped him off is this a setup so he thought that they were coming in to kill him that's why he said he did it in self-defense case closed might as well just let him go now on his merry way what there you go that's a fucking ball the butchered a family right like yeah you know this is this one is like yeah i think he's fucking nuts but like i mean i don't care where you put him this is the thing i get i don't care i don't understand why people are so like i get that people want vengeance

and shit like that but people are like how dare you gonna go in a mental hospital and we've ever been to a mental hospital it's not It's not for the criminally insane. Not like a voluntary place. A place where you have to go by the state because you killed people. It's not a great place. I don't really give a shit where they put him. He just needs to be out of circulation, I would say. Out of the gen pop of society would be great.

My opinion of the situation though is like the sure maybe he didn't go to the strode's house intending to kill people what he did you get dropped off there and you see a sign that says uh protected by winchester you're probably even if you had the plan to kill people you might be rethinking it maybe don't eat their beans right he went in with nobody there eating their beans beans and drinking their coffee, and then tucked away a gun. Yeah. Now it's premeditated. That's what I mean.

He thought about it and he did it. I mean, sorry, but then he shot people after they were dead just to make sure. Like, they were definitely incapacitated. I don't think Emery was going to take him down while he had a butcher knife sticking out of his chest. But he said, I'm going to pop up a couple more times here. So the verdict comes around here obviously it's six men and six women uh who've all heard about the case and all know everyone in law enforcement and everything like that can't wait to draw and quarter this man they're just dying to and also he's up for uh grand theft for stealing the pickup truck and

shit like that and attempted murder as well for shooting at ray horn for that beard he's got that so they find him guilty of first degree murder the jury does uh for the three murders of the strode family and then he is found guilty on one count of attempted murder and grand theft for stealing the pickup truck everything guilty across the board he said he kept his eyes shut during the entire five hours of courtroom proceedings he never opened his eyes he sat down they did a whole day they came back with a verdict and he never opened his fucking eyes i don't open my eyes they can't see me but they said the verdict was read at 9 15 p.m they said while the verdict was read he opened his eyes dramatically and stared straight ahead and then bowed his head for the rest of it that was it so he that was the

only time he had his eyes open while they read the verdict and then he went back to what he was doing deep thought jimmy yeah so uh the aggravating circumstances and the sentencing here you need an aggravators do you need aggravating circumstances that outweigh the mitigating circumstances to impose the death penalty for people who are from other countries that don't have the death penalty like all of them except for saudi arabia and fucking syria and shit because i mean afghanistan and yeah sharia law exists places that you'd be you know where you have to dress a certain way we'll put it that way even if you're on vacation that those are places that have any place other than uh where women's clitoris is forcibly removed yeah that's all because it all goes together it's in the same bag really right it's all on the same menu i feel like you know what i mean we ought to be doing

that if we're gonna keep this shit up j. So they find the aggravating circumstance that he had been previously convicted of a felony involving the use or threat of violence to a person, as well as the aggravating circumstance that the murder involved torture, depravity of mind, or the mutilation of the victim. The jury found that there were no mitigating circumstances sufficient to outweigh the aggravating circumstances. You, sir, may fuck off. They give him the death penalty for this. Yeah, right now. We're going to hang him outside. The death penalty.

And then also they impose 10 years for grand theft and 20 years for attempted murder and they'll they run consecutive with the death penalty holy shit so he's got the death penalty plus 30 years where his they're gonna hang on to him and uh i don't know make dream catchers out of him i have i got news for you mr rogers uh you know roberts is it roberts it's rogers yeah he's gonna be in a different neighborhood nowadays this is not mr rogers you are now owned by the government now you are owned by the government they're gonna take you to your own pyramid it's not gonna be a triangle it's gonna be a square it's gonna be a square pyramid a little tiny rectangular pyramid so uh yeah he gets that uh 10 and 20 for that. And they asked him, quote, Mark, do you realize what these what this means? And he just said yes in a monotone way and continued to stare at the jury box because they just imposed a death penalty and that's kind of a weird thing for people to do yeah it just is that's what they also don't notice

don't say all the time is that like that fucks the jury up sometimes too when they're kind of especially you got to do that yeah when they're pressured by other people too it's it's tough so the appeal process comes around here and uh they deny him in 1985 they deny him in 1986 for post-conviction relief uh they held an evidentiary hearing at which he testified that must have been fun as shit i would love the video of him testifying at an evidentiary hearing yeah i would pay for that footage if anybody has it literally whatever it costs i will i'll i'll go into debt for that shit i want to watch this is that that's that's a public record right yeah but they wouldn't have videoed it back then it wouldn't have been on video now 1986 appeals court anybody do a comic

of it i'll read that oh god jesus just a picture of him on the stand just ranting and raving talking about pyramids. I want it bad. Seems like a guy that would have like, he's so nuts, he would have like half his face shaved. You know what I mean? Like that guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Half his face shaved.

Right down the middle. Crop circles in his hair. Like, what's happening with you? So he files a petition for a writ of habeas corpus in 1987 here. This is a council was appointed for him. He got some new counsel here. 1987. Right after that, there's a stay of issued for his execution where they say they got a, you know, federal court's going to determine if his constitutional rights were upheld during the trial.

He claims he was given ineffective counsel uh there and the uh nevada supreme court denied it so then he's going up the chain here uh 1989 in july he uh the court stayed that action so rogers could exhaust certain claims in court it's all legal shit 1989 they're looking for extra legal aid for virginia Nevada death penalty people who have been convicted. Yeah. So convictees, I guess, convicts. They were saying that the the this is one guy who was this the U.S. public defender. He says, I think inmates should be provided an attorney in every case.

Most of the time they do get a lawyer, but not always, and it usually takes months. And the Deputy Nevada Attorney General, he said that they should deny the request and said the district court routinely provides counsel to death row inmates, and Mr. Flanagan knows it. The federal public defender just doesn't want to move on these cases. So the U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-4 in a case in Virginia that death row inmates are not constitutionally entitled to state paid attorneys when appealing their sentences. Yeah.

So basically, like, you can't have a good attorney on your death penalty appeal unless you can afford it. So they said that in Virginia, the state has an in-house prison attorney system that helps death row inmates appeal their cases. Prisoners, these are, that do this. What? Yeah, prisoners that have legal knowledge. They're in-house people.

A little bit of it. Yeah, something that Nevada doesn't even have that. They said, quote, Nevada is nowhere near as sophisticated in its legal assistance scheme as Virginia. They don't even have that. They just have, well, fuck you, buddy. I mean, that's basically their thing uh they said the two test cases the guy this public defender used for his federal court motions involved uh henry dawson in virginia and mark rogers in nevada so he was a supreme court the supreme court heard about this idiot think about that so 1990 frank remember

frank strode who found his family butchered and had probably the worst day of his life well on august 19th 1990 he dies so that's a shame only 52 years old he died fuck 52 years old terrible he stayed in that goddamn town nobody makes it to 75 in yep he died there he's buried in the winnememetery. Sure did. Where we all hope to get. So 1990, he filed a second petition for a petition for post-conviction relief. It was denied. He appeals. Nevada Supreme Court dismissed the appeal.

God. In 1993, between 67 and 93, there were two types of post-conviction relief available to people in Nevada. One was Jesus. How do I explain this simply? Holy shit. Oh, God, this is annoying. Basically, the court refers to all Rogers State Court post-conviction actions. Well, I can't even, I can't explain this. It would take us 20 minutes to explain the legalities of this.

I'm so mad because I fucking read for an hour and a half what the shit is going on here so I could explain it. And I went in other cases and I looked. And now I'm like, I can't explain this in the time allotted. This is crazy. The whole thing would be like, you know, legal wranglings with James and Jimmy. That's not a show. Fucking ridiculous.

So we'll skip that. Shit gets denied. We'll put it that way. 2011, there's an appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel, and he contends that his attorneys called his mother to testify against his will. He did not want his mother to testify. He said that his attorneys never discussed with him anything about his past or his family that they could use in the penalty phase either. So they didn't ask him, like, hey, were you maybe your dad beat the shit out of you all the time when you were a kid he said they never asked him any of that to get mitigating factors out of him um so they said

that uh uh the defense attorney allowed the mother to testify and his mother this is his new attorney said that his mother quote buried him quite frankly with their testimony about his troubled past they said that uh she brought up things the him, quite frankly, with her testimony about his troubled past. They said that she brought up things the prosecution wouldn't have been able to bring up unless he introduced character shit. So they fucked him, basically, is what the what this attorney said. The essence of the testimony was that he had a criminal background. He was cold and cruel, but he wasn't insane. And that she also said the defense counsel failed to adequately investigate his past while living in ohio so they didn't like when the prosecutors brought up his charges they didn't have it like adequately investigated to defend him on it to say well

he was only a kid at a party and got in a fight and that sort of shit so um the uh chief justice al gunderson said he was comfortable comfortable that Rogers got what he deserved. But he also told the county district attorney, Richard Wagner, quote, You weren't sorry to see mom on the stand, were you? It was like they did you a favor, but, you know, they did you a favor. He's saying I'm not going to say it was ineffective assistance of counsel, but they definitely did the prosecution a favor, which seems like the definition of ineffective assistance of counsel. But I don't know. which seems like the definition of ineffective assistance of counsel but i don't know uh the chief justice said it seemed like a vain effort to overturn the death sentence because quote maybe something could be found in rogers path passed to change the result of the trial

and penalty hearing uh the defense insisted it was more than just a possibility but they said um no uh they also the judge brought up that there was testimony that Rogers used his acting training to fake insanity symptoms. And he said that Rogers could have been using a strategy of not helping his defense in hopes of getting something less than a death sentence. You know, that's he said he could have been doing this on purpose. Yeah. But if he was a good enough actor to pretend to be crazy, wouldn't he be on TV? I would. Then he had caps. I would think he would have gotten a role or two. He would have been fine. So the defense attorney insisted that the court should grant the appeal and says

something very logical. When you're going to execute someone, you better be right. You've got to be sure the chips are all in order. She said that the value society puts on life mandates that in death penalty cases, there be a qualitative difference between the defendant's crime and a killing by the state so that's all very good on uh cross-examination when pressed to identify the

witnesses that rogers believed his attorney should have called to testify in the penalty phase first he had trouble naming anybody and then all of a sudden he comes out with this fucking torrent this river of shit here he says that uh he would call robert hops william lansky ted brady and john profisoli he said that quote all these people i worked for a stretch a stretch of two or three years and i worked hard and was always there and clean and did my work and uh he said i won't they should have come on to say he was good at work four years ago yeah that would have helped in a murder trial especially when he said he's crazy they're gonna come up and go no he's a good guy we had lunch together just beans and coffee and just hung out all the time i mean very mitigating very mitigating here um it's

fucking strange he also says that the uh the performance with respect to the use of his prior criminal convictions as an aggravating circumstance, he said that wasn't good. They didn't challenge that enough. And they said his self-serving testimony that his attorneys could have located and called witnesses from Los Angeles, and they would have generally said positive things about him, was not compelling evidence that he was prejudiced by his attorney. Another point is the sequester. He said, I wanted a sequester, and they didn't give it to him. He says he's entitled to a new trial and sentencing hearing because the court ruling denying the motion to sequester

violated his federal rights. Grand larceny. Also, he said he shouldn't have been charged with grand larceny for stealing the truck. As he says, the jury was asked to determine whether Mr. Rogers took the Strode's automobile with the specific intent to permanently deprive them of such property. Evidence was introduced that Mark Rogers killed three persons he did not know while leaving $8,000 in cash in the very small home. The nature of the offense suggests that robbery was not the motive. The nature of the offense suggests that robbery was not the motive.

There was a myriad of evidence that he was psychotic at the time of the offense, and they said that he could have been taking the truck with intent for fleeing for his life and not with the intent of permanently depriving the Strodes or their beneficiaries of the property. That's an excellent point. That's what I mean. In fact, the testimony, but that's like if he's crazy, you have to believe that. If not, you have to bite the whole apple on that one, which is tough. You have to believe one thing and take the rest of it like we said before. So they said that he chased people and shot at people for no reason, no motive.

He wasn't going to rob them or do anything. They said there was no way to determine his motive given his mental illness. He was experiencing some distortion of reality. You know, whatever. We'll give you that. Also, the juror questions. They said that refusing to allow the defense counsel to ask each juror what his or her individual verdict was in previous jury service was unreasonably restrictive. Also, prior convictions as the aggravator he's trying to say they said he had two convictions but he really only had one conviction even though

he pled guilty he didn't do the sentencing so he's trying to say that's not a conviction and the court's like just because you fled the state doesn't mean that you didn't do it you just technicalities. Stupid. Yeah. So you're charged and you're convicted. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So they're also saying that the depravity of mind aggravator and the prior convictions, that was error.

And they were saying he doesn't have depravity of mind and all this type of shit. They go into whether he mutilated them or not or tortured them or the you know that for the aggravator so they're trying to break both aggravators he only had one conviction and he didn't do anything that bad to them is what he's saying okay but they're like he did shit after death right so that can be considered he put an electrical cord around a dead girl's wrist why right that's something he stole a truck whether or not he took the eight grand two it doesn't matter he's still exactly you know i mean he's still in the commission of a robbery

he stole a spoon it's still he stole something so we've had this before our fault he chose the fucking thing that was harder to sell and you know i mean it doesn't benefit him as well yes uh well the decision comes in the court concludes that the constitutional errors regarding the aggravating circumstances found by the jury, those errors asserted by Rogers and all these different counts. Rogers' second amended petition has substantial and injurious effect or influence on determining the jury's verdict, as the errors significantly skewed the weighing of aggravating and mitigating evidences or circumstances by which the jury found Rogers eligible for the death penalty. In finding these errors harmless, the state court's rulings were an unreasonable application of a clearly established federal law as determined by the Supreme Court and were based on an unreasonable determination of the facts in light of the evidence presented. The court will, therefore, grant Rogers habeas corpus relief with respect to his death sentence. It is ordered that his second amended petition for writ blah, blah, blah, as granted in part and denied in part.

Basically, he's getting new sentencing. either grant petitioner a new penalty phase trial and initiate proceedings relative to that new penalty phase trial or vacate the death sentence and impose on him a non-capital sentence equivalent consistent with the law so they can try to get the death penalty on him again file it again or they can just say never mind and it's life in prison and he's got life consecutive with another 30 years so he's probably not going anywhere right type of thing so they can do one or the other um so uh he has a the u.s court of appeals for the ninth circuit he's got a case on the calendar for william k nakamura courthouse in seattle april 19th 2021 they're still going still going in a couple weeks, he's got Mark Rogers versus James DeZerenda. The state of Nevada appeals court district's judgment on remand.

So they're appealing the decision to change his sentence, basically. Yeah, they're doing that. So that's what's going on. Appealing the appeal. God damn it. It's in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal. So that's the very top before the supreme court so if this gets thrown back it's going to go to the supreme court which

is crazy um yeah so that's going on keep up on that and the whole family is buried in winnemucca unfortunately for them which sucks um everyone's buried that's why the one guy was buried there because the rest of the family was too that is um that's the story uh still ongoing um just we're not done yet they're not done yet and um i definitely have to follow up on that washington murder to see yeah about that also when is that in 2021 april april 19th 2021 it is up there so he's on the on the schedule who knows if it'll get delayed or whatever but it's on the docket for now. So we'll see what happens.

Um, yeah, that's the case. That's in lane, Nevada and a little bit of Florida and a little bit of California and a little bit of Canada and a little bit of Washington all over the goddamn place. It's a shit hole.

That place, man. Yeah. That in my sucks, but, um, we hope you enjoyed the show. We hope you enjoyed that crazy shit story

um i don't know where else you're gonna hear stories about pyramid people and mount olympus and all that we find the deep deepest darkest holes we go deep in the minds for you everyone that's what we do to find crazy stories like this i'm stunned isn't that crazy i'm stunned with how fucking deep that dive was that was a lot that was too much nevada that's what that was man that's why like last week i was like we got a next week crazy and uh yeah it's crazy i wasn't lying so we got all that if you enjoyed that show please tell the world about it how do you do that apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars because it matters and we have no idea why it helps drive

you up the charts and we don't know why but people see the show more than and they want to listen to it and it it helps us on the business end so if you want to help out the show it's a good way to do it give a review say anything you want just give five stars also go to shut up and give me murder.com right now where you can find all of the everything for crime and sports and small town murder we're going to have updates on tour dates coming up soon everything keeps getting rescheduled rescheduled as of right now i know we have a couple at the end of 2021 that we're hanging on to that we're hoping are going to still go on pretty sure they'll happen but pretty sure they're that depends on you that depends on everybody yeah And then we're stacking up back for 2022.

Most of the same places we had. A couple of the cities are going to go away just because we don't have time. We have to. But all the ones that we cut, we made sure there's another city close by. So if you feel like driving a couple hours, you can go to another show. But, I mean, otherwise, it's just the schedules didn't allow it. Or it wasn't available and the only time we could be there. otherwise it's just the schedules didn't allow it or it was uh that wasn't available on the only time we could be there so it's it's nothing if your city gets canceled it's nothing

personal we promise it's not because we hate it logistics and difficulties with time management are a pain in the dick they really are we kind of got yeah we kind of got choices would you rather do this or this type of thing and sometimes it just was based on well more people can go to that show so we'll do that one. And that's kind of how we're doing. We just want the most people to be able to go to the shows as possible, you know, whatever. So that's how that works. Get on there and follow us around on shutupandgivememurder.com.

Listen to Small Town Murder. Listen to PSA Hate This Movie. And do all that shit. And also you should – where was I? Social media. That's right. You've got to follow us on social media. You'll get all the updates on any of these tour dates that pop up to,

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We have really just been putting it out there, laying it on the line for Patreon. So if you have been waiting to subscribe to Patreon, get on it, man. I'm telling you, it's worth it. It's really worth it. This past week, you can start out with that right there. We did a little thing on the documentary

about the Hotel Cecil and the Elisa Lam disappearance and all that sort of thing. And we really ripped YouTube sleuths and all this sort of shit. It was a lot of fun. And then also this last weekend was the prisoner dating game, which was absolutely incredible this time. Jimmy made his worst decision ever. You have to hear it to believe it.

It's so perfect and so fucking funny. It's ridiculous. It was bound to happen. It had to. It really had to. You usually, you've been pretty good at dodging bullets. I got to be honest. Listen, I can sniff out a pedo in a second.

You can. You can. And this time, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But he didn't end up with who he wanted to end up with. We'll put it that way. So check all that. The lady, sort of. Although her crime was wild.

Holy shit. She was the wildest one out of all the women. Maybe one of the worst women on earth. Probably. Based on what she did, it was it was like whoa that was a bad woman oh that's a big boy crime right there that's crazy so uh yeah based on that definitely check all that out new stuff coming next week we'll have more episodes you get access to both shows patreon crime and sports and small town murder and the whole back catalog as well patreon.com slash crime and sports patreon.com slash crime and sports and also you'll be a producer so jimmy can mispronounce your name horribly as well even though he's trying his best to do it well it's

going to be great and uh if you just want to be a producer have your name right at the end of the show and also have great karma and not for nothing our undying affection sure you can do that as well at paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com and whichever way you do it patreon paypal every damn people send us a 20 bill in a in the mail like there are grand grandma as well sometimes like in a card and however you do however you give us stuff it's incredibly yeah thank you it's just amazingly uh we're so grateful for it honestly we can't and the mail lately has been really fun too you guys send incredibly funny things that's the other thing we got we got an autographed picture of hillbilly jim today james that's great oh yeah i saw that out there i

didn't we rushed didn't we rushed in the studio so fast today, I didn't even glance. But I remember seeing it. I was like, is that Hillbilly Jim? And then something else came up, and we ran in the studio. It's amazing. The gifts you guys send, the affection you guys send. Thank you. You guys are just amazing people, and we can't thank you enough.

Well, when we get out of here, what we'll do is we'll look at the Hillbillyilly gym picture we'll talk it over over a plate of beans and a cup of coffee what do you say buddy let's do that our friends kevin and larry over and we'll shave them and we'll knit a couple of gonna be so good kevlar beard so now we have scum face shit beard and and kevlar beard growing all these beards that said though yeah do all of that go to paypal go to patreon thank you so much follow us on social media and be one of these people who jimmy's going to talk about right now oh i can't wait to hear about him jimmy hit me with these people like a crazy man with a can of seven up this week's executive producers are wendy and ashley robelia and they lost their brother-in-law um Oh, no. They sent me a message, too.

Oh, shit. Sorry about that. And I can't recall all the details. It doesn't matter. It's terrible. We don't want to give details of that. No, that's just awful, though. But Wendy and Ashley listened to the show.

Thank you both very, very much. Thank you. Other executive producers are Thomas DeMello, Ashley Veo, Carol Braun, Joanne Ahern, Ben McDonough. He sent Lenny Dykstra prints a couple months ago. Cool. Those drawn pictures. Yeah, yeah, those are cool shit. Thank you. ahern ben mcdonough uh he sent uh lenny dykstra prints a couple months ago uh those yeah yeah pictures yeah yeah those are amazing thank you sophie stahl jordan bennett of course janna holbrook josh smith janine heidelball hey holly it's beth that's bethany barrio it's holly yeah

that's who it is no hey holly i'm giving it back to Beth. Why should Holly get all the greeting? Also, Chrissy Ann Costaldi is sticking around. Thank you. Jill Knapp, Melinda Gardner, Chris Davis on Discord, Stephanie Ford, Tyler Brown, Kenny Gregg, and Latasha Campbell. And I believe they're her daughters. They're her kids, because I don't want to assume shit. Leala, what is this?

Leala, Leleja, and Lania. I think I got those right. kids uh because i don't i don't want to assume shit uh layala what is this layala lalasia and uh uh lania i think i got those right probably not thank you latasha other producers this week also are king putin sarah hines or hins she actually uh somebody couldn't uh get the patreon bonus stuff so she sent her money to uh oh my god get a a patron bonus so that she could listen to the shows. Unbelievable. Thank you so much, Sarah. People do that. They buy each other tickets to the virtual live shows.

Our audience is, people are fucking awesome. You're just good people, man. That's legit support. So many good people. Yeah, they'll help another human being they don't even know. It's wild. How nice they are. Truly wild.

It's cool shit. Michael DeGrief, I think it's DeGrief. Madison Decker. Brendan Ables. Liz Vasquez. James Marder. Jessica DeHordy. Wow.

Anyway, it's her birthday. I forgot that one, Jimmy. And it's her birthday? Good God. We're sorry. Happy birthday. Jimmy called you a Jessica the whore on your birthday. That's terrible.

I'm sorry. Carl Hirschner is German german also which is fantastic because uh i don't know how to stop this from doing the umlaut next week on instagram i'm gonna type carl kirchner into this fucking computer and let everybody watch as it fucking does the umlaut i don't know why it does it it's unbelievable uh peyton meadows layla hall Hallman Amanda Knight, Brandon Benio and his co-worker Ronnie had a birthday no, had a baby had a baby, congratulations

his girlfriend did I imagine unless Ronnie's the girl, I don't know we don't know, someone had a baby, congratulations good for you Bethany Darrow, Kayla Lyons Thomas Smith, Annette Zagalski, Victoria Blau, Madison Butler, Richard Lawrence. It's his birthday also.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Jeffrey Perota's Gurley. Oh, Teresa had a birthday too. Happy birthday. Hey. Melissa Klein, Jerry Crawford, Monica Hernandez, Jennifer Weathers, Christy Franklin, Janice Hill, Sarah Peterson, David Hartman.

Happy birthday to Snafufu whoever the fuck that is kim's fab lip sense i don't know what that is oh it's kim obviously she sells lip sense that's what she makes so look for kim's lip right i don't know what that is but it's lip stuff and if you want it you'll know what it is what do you put on your lips if you're looking for it you know what it is lars gazeby gazeby amanda brennan os Oscar Arriaga, Pixie DeLeon, Liz Reigard, Jude Kendall, Ken Dorfman, and his brother Fred's car, I believe, is mangled. So whatever. Oh, I'm sorry.

Gary Friedman. Does he have a baby? Gary Friedman explained the rabbi thing to me, and he's even more hysterical now. Andrew Mateel, Medley, Chain Grant, Nathan Aldridge, Brett Stetson, Kellen Dragomanovich, Paula with no last name, Lindsay Payne, Isabella Roland, Ryan Carter, Tim Goins, Ethan with no last name, Zachary Tully, Joseph Clayton, Samantha Smith, Elia Hernandez, Taylor Michael, Charles David, Patrick Blackwell, Seth with no last name, Aaron Nesseth, Isabel Tomeo, Chris DiBello, Adam Hardy, Jamie Jeans, Quentin Robinson, Brad with no last name, Cindy Williams, Amy Quakenbush. Quakenbush. You might be right.

Joseph Grande. Marsha Moores. Moores. Caitlin Payne. Elijah Nia. Oh, boy. Scruff Winters. Mackie Eboy.

Elijah Nia. It's a good opera song. Paul Me. No. What is this? Pool for Me Too. Cale Calderson. Calderon.

God damn it. Paige Leilani. William G. Bryant. Yep. Kemp. Oh, boy. Allio. Allio. kael calderson calderon god damn it page leilani william g uh bryant yep uh kemp oh boy alio ellie uh nope what happened now lisa ramos noah yates zoe zoe promo promo primo uh yeah you what is that oh is that oh primo uh andrea? Oh, primo. Andrea Gibson, Chase Malden, Anna Rodriguez, four eyes in NC. It's blue. Bernard Blue. Is that right?

So hers is below promo. Promo. Promo. Promo. Eddie Shannon, Amanda Linderman, Jonathan Marion, Asia Stiles, Brielle Jensen, William Grebe, Alana Green, Ben Blake, Alex Shagan, Chris with no last name, Michael Seiler, Savannah Hicks, Cassandra Buckaloo, Jared Delbert, Craig Perry, Danic Perrier, Megan Lawrence, Tammy, what did you say? Swatter around. Yeah, it is. It's so good.

That lemon and the lime, fuck, it's so good. You like the sparkling shit., it is. It's so good. That lemon and the lime? Fuck, it's so good. You like the sparkling shit. Yeah. It's so rad. You like this. Where did I go? Sean O'Connor, Tammy Kilpatrick, Mandy Roening, David Clemus. He donated twice on Patreon, so I imagine one's for him and one's for somebody else.

I don't know. Thank you. Either way. Thanks, David. Charles Rivera, Devin Rose, Heidi Novak, Emily Rourke, Kester Millman, Flankstvall. else i don't know thank you either way thanks david uh charles rivera devin rose heidi novak emily rourke kester millman flank oh boy flankstville chad graham tiffany hyde hj sheremy oh boy matthew welburn amanda baker a microwave what that can't be right it has to be an auto correct right that can't be somebody's name. I would think so. Amber Longbaugh. I am Alfred Microwave.

Longabaugh. Nice to meet you. Jen A. Alex H. Aaron with no last name. Megan Kassler. Amy B. Amanda Hendrickson.

Brandy Adkins. Bella Hilliker. I like her. Oh, boy. Jackie Caldwell. Yep. Lindsay Harper. Smooth Daddy Bob.

Sarah Gaddy. Lane Hook. Elizabeth Vitulo. John Marsh, Laura Burns, Corey Billingsley, Elizabeth Lemon, Liz Lemon. Hey, Liz Lemon's in the house. Casey Gorsuch, Carolyn with no last name, Michael Snowden, Matthew Hopkins with a Z, Morgan Smith, Monica Diaz, Julia Mancini, Cody Tipton, Amber Aggie, Rob Lanto, Andrew Blanchard, Ben Anderson, Ryan Hutchison, Chrissy, nope, that's Christy Hoover, Autumn Pena, Caroline Cranford, Ayla Caligari, nope, probably Hicks, Megan Duhlman, Nikki Smith, Suzanne Kennedy, Patty McInerney, Shayla Overway, Shay Lynn, sorry, Overway, Ty Cabral, Elizabeth Burho, Burhow, boy oh boy, Christine and Amanda, no last names, Kenneth Bethard, what is this? Anna Kay, Lisa Goins, Clark and Diane Trowbridge, Taylor Cigars, Morgan Joyner, Mike

Waller, Jonathan Sladek, Allison Newton, Jay Howard, Christy Aris, Fallon Eisel, Eisel? Oh boy. I don't know. Wyatt Decker, Shana would know his name, Grace Vinicombe.

Brienne Cotton. Colton. Emily Wilson. Jonathan Junavicious. Junavicus. Wow. It's great. One of those, probably. Carlos Moran.

Amy Moon. Richard Kraft. Rachel Archer. Hannah Bishop. Tom Raimondos. Oh, boy. Jessica Hage. Hage.

Channing Cook. Talay. Talay. Oh, boy. Jessica Hage. Hage. Channing Cook. Talay. Talay. No last name. Fleur Bernard. No last name. Kimberly Sue Phillips. Damon Stevens.

Haley Roach. Paul with no last name. Tina Hall. Neil Schickinger. Boy, oh, boy. Adam Brennan. Anita Lindsay. Sarah Pollert. What the fuck? neil skickinger skickinger boy oh boy adam brennan anita lindsey uh sarah pollert what the fuck elizabeth aquino phyllis barnwell carrie beth smith sydney with no last name ari carney

or ari not ari it's ari james ari jen with an exclamation point uh lind Lindsay with no last name. Rachel Shaw. Kaylee Church. Nicole Luke. Look. Looky, looky. Kyle Roos. Looky, looky. Tracy Kelly. JB with no last name. Chris Kuzmich.

Travis Peterson. Garrett Luneau. Robert Durham. Andrea Wood. Andrea K. Wood. Christian Carlson. Raven Queen. Elizabeth Pepperdine.

Rusty Shackleford. John Mead. Trevor Rohnfeld. Amanda Nicole. Jen with no last name, Katie O'Boyle, Samantha Sprague, Jan Juman, John Juman, Boyle. I got to work on myself. Shauna McCormick. I got to work on myself. Denise with no last name. Jean Daler, Cheryl Sharp, Kyle Jacobson, Zoe with no last name, John Mazias, Christina with no last name, Alex Parker, Misty JT, Samara McFadden, Chris and Devi, Tracy Wickerts, The Mobile Leprechaun, Hannah Michniak, Michael Engerstein, Wyatt Dalton, Eric Garza, Rene Dupras, Michelle Voss, Elizabeth Stark, Gloria Goins, Madeline DuPois, Julie Glier, John Sanchez, Kyle Conger, Steve Grant, Christina Garrett, Brandon Kramer, Kim Wilkins, Lead or Lead? I think it's Lead.

Ah, Jesus. I don't know. Jared Lindquist, Dan Voss of the Voss Fortune. He makes amazing water, that Dan. All those tall bottles of glass water. So he knows how to do it. Ethan Paula, Angelina Law, Jamie Wienisch, Sarah Lukatz, Brianne Scott, Dasha Boston, Jenny Fisher, Cheyenne Dodson, Cody Williamson, Lydia Ware.

We don't buy Voss water, by the way. That's been provided to us at Comedy Pops before. I will never buy that. I've never purchased that. That's insanely expensive. I don't want people to be like, these fucking guys are drinking perrier and voss water if we're on the road before a joe show jimmy will stop at 7-eleven and get like one of those sparkling perriers for $1.89 to drink so his throat feels good and we only have voss when someone gives it to us at a comedy club and then we steal a couple out of a little cooler

and put in our bag for later because we're fucking trash just so you know please don't think that we're fancy we're pompous cunts who think we need to drink boss water to survive no no when it's given to us like oh god put it in your bag it's expensive take the gum too take the gum from up there too that's how we are empty the fridge they'll refill it yeah they will they't know. They'll think we're really thirsty. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Cody Williamson, Lydia Ware, Artavius Mitchum, Mitchum,

Konuko? Konoko. Konoko Kitsune. I know that. I don't know that. He's very confident, though. Andrea Null, Abigail with no last name, Lauren Gayden, Corey Wheat, Ashley Gray. Austin Skrlak. Dayton Vick. Justin Wood.

Desiree Felton. Charlotte Whitehead. Sarah Chatterton. I think that's right. Ronnie Ronelli. Ronell. Oli. Ollie Woodward.

Leah Stroud. Siobhan with no last name. Tim Tom H. M.M. McSwain. Or, mm, McSwain. I don't know what that is. Melinda Metz. Rebecca Moreno, Marshall Barker and Sky Hill. Adrian Shutt, Kevin would know last name.

Brittany Salaturo, Matt Hollowell. Carly would know last name. Reginald Jones, Krista Odom. Kate would know last name. Vern Lyons, Dakota Violet, Christina, Megan Wittenberg, Adam Milham, Sean Lang, Justin Halls, John Hiles, Tiffany Lombard, LaBombard, Evil Queen Ellie, Rebecca Davies Thomas, Tyler D., Kay Morales, Alex Goodspelled, Goodsped, Goodspeed, Abigail Enrique, Gina Nichols, Creed Don't W worry about it. Holly Nerum. Sarah Inskeep. Derek, oh boy, Sturdivant. Jeffrey Rice.

John Pritchard. Josh Johanson. Morgan would know the last name. Amberlynn Ditto. Shelby Land. Brian Seaman. Oh boy. Kenny Gregg.

Marilyn Dunaway. Steph Clements. Corinne Darcy. Catherine Freehout. Oh boy, Freehout. Christelle Neary, Erica Buckley, Samantha Labs, April Chero, Kristen Martin, Dalton Wick, Justin Hillhouse, Heather Higginbotham, Tyler with no last name. Marianne Baker-Vick. Jesse Olson. Becca Thompson. Local media. Chimo.

Oh, boy. Chuma. Chuma. Nuwawabab. I'm a piece of garbage. Wilma Fistfit. Amy Monroe. Angie Ann.

Ann. That's just Ann. Patefield. Big Antonio Lopez. Jacob Ortego. Daniel Quinn. Amanda Geraldine Harper, Liz Allison, Jordan Thompson, Melanie McWhorter, Gabby, Katie H., and Chandler East, and obviously all of our patrons. You guys are amazing. We can't do this show without you.

Thank you so much. God damn it. Yes, thank you. There's a lot of people. That's a lot. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, everybody, for what you do for us.

And Jimmy, what if they wanted to talk to you or thank you or roll insults at you? How could they do that? You can find me, my friends Kevin and Larry over at the trailer with a can of beans and a fresh pot of coffee. Come on by. Sounds good. Well, add me to that list because I'll be there as well. Google us on our can of beans and we'll be doing that. So that said, thank you for taking a crazy shit wild journey through the West with us today.

Through the West and back to the East and on the back of a car. Think about that. That's how that actually that seemed like there's been so much crazy since then that like it's like, oh, yeah, he was hanging on a luggage rack, standing on a bumper, screaming, motherfucker, at elderly people. We're lucky to catch him. That's really what it is. Honestly, that is crazy shit. So with all that, thank you for hanging out with us. And we're just excited to have you.

And we're excited to come back next week and the week after that. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members. You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.