Small Town Murder - #217 - A Missing Model & Doggy DNA - Mt Zion, Illinois

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

This week, in Mt Zion, Illinois, the discovery of a human head, wrapped in 2 layers of plastic & duct tape, leads to the search for the killer of a young woman, with modeling aspirations, and a young son. There are many suspects, including the current boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend, and the ex-husband. And the ex-husband's parents... and sister. In the end, the case is solved like no other before, with doggy DNA! Along the way, we find out that some places are just between other places, that if you see a plastic bag, in a pond, keep on going, and always lint brush yourself before you dismember a person, and put them in plastic bags!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Mount Zion, Illinois, when a head wrapped in plastic and other body parts are found to belong to a missing young

woman, investigators find only one way to crack the mystery, the DNA of a dog, of course. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, an immense amount for joining us today. We are excited, as usual. We've had some wild stuff lately, and it's going to continue this week again because we're in Illinois. It's always an insane case in Illinois for some reason, so we're going to get back there. It's going to be a lot of fun. Just want to thank everyone. First of all, for your reviews this week,

they help a lot. The Apple podcast, that purple icon. We don't understand why they count. We, if it was up to us, we wouldn't have it at all. There'd be no review system,

but it's there. It helps drive you up the chart. So give us five stars. That helps a lot. If you haven't done that yet. Anyway, go over to shut up and give me murder.com right now for everything small town murder and everything crime and sports as well why would you want to go there for something crime

and sports james well something very special is going to be going on sale very very shortly keep checking up on there and follow us on social media at murder small at small town pod at small town murder on instagram check all those out because this week, the virtual live show for Crime and Sports goes on sale. Yes. And I don't even care if you haven't heard Crime and Sports. A Crime and Sports live show. I can't wait. You won't see a better comedy show.

It's so good. I'm telling you right now. It's really, really wild and crazy stuff. So get your tickets there. Shut up and give me murder.com on sale very, very shortly. And also Patreon. Oh, my goodness. We have had some wild stuff on Patreon.

Last week, we did the Hotel Cecil deal. And then we, of course, had the Prisoner Dating Game, which was our best edition of it yet, I believe. So if you missed that, you're going to want that. Sticky, yeah. Yes, patreon.com slash crimeandsports. This week coming up for Crime and Sports, which you'll also get if you sign up, you get access to all the Patreon,

is going to be about Marv Albert, the 90s basketball announcer who had a really hilarious sex scandal, let's just say, for a weird old bald guy who says yes when a ball goes in a basket to have a it's just a weird story so we have to check that out and then uh for small town murders bonus we are going to talk all about the netflix is it netflix right it is yes the night stalker documentary we're going to talk about that and richard ramirez and all that weird stuff and uh we can't usually talk about serial killers on Small Town Murder because it just doesn't go.

And people have talked about them, but on Patreon we can do it. So it's so much fun. Small towns don't usually generate the serial killer. They're generally in a sprawling metropolis where, you know, there's lots and lots of victims. More people to kill. Yeah, that's the thing. You want to have a larger. It's harder to kill people if everyone knows you.

Well, who'd you see killing them? It was Bob. You got to go where the people are. That's how it works. So check all that out. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. It's a lot of fun. You get access to the whole back catalog.

And Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show because you are now a producer and honestly a hero of ours. So thank you so much for that and everyone who's done credit thank you do and if you just want to be an amazing person and have great karma and also be a producer and get your name mispronounced you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com right that said quick disclaimer we got a lot of show this is a this case is it's insane it's absolutely insane so quickly it's a comedy show we're comedians this is uh there's going to be jokes made and there's going to be people dead because if nobody died small town murder would really

be kind of false advertising so yeah there will be a murder and we're going to talk about it and jokes will be made what we do do and go out of our way to do is we try and make sure we don't make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's how it works there. Honestly, there's a lot of comedy in the crazy idea of to kill somebody and the plot leading up to it and how we're going to get away with it. It's really absurd so there's plenty to make fun of with the murderer and of course small towns because you know we everybody's from somewhere i've made fun of where i'm from a few episodes ago so you can take it too but if that

sounds good to you we're gonna have fun yes you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together maybe this isn't for you but maybe it is and if it is i think it's time to sit back and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy okay let's go on a trip shall we i would i'd really really love it we need to we need to go somewhere uh we are coming from nevada last week with one of the craziest people that we've ever had on this show. That guy's arrest was the... I don't think we've had anything nuttier on the whole show than hanging onto a luggage rack, surfing on the back bumper,

screaming obscenities at an elderly couple. That's the craziest arrest in the history of the world. Remember that video game Skitchin'? Do you remember that? That sounds familiar. It was when rollerblades were popular, and you had rollerblades, and you would grab the back of a car, and then you'd punch people that were riding the car with you. But would you stand on the bumper while hanging off the luggage rack?

That seems like a great idea. If he had rollerblades, I'd see what he was up to. I'd go, okay, I get it. He's just hitching a ride. That was insane, though. And what he did was also even crazier, and pyram pyramids and the mount olympus and all that shit so this week though we're going to illinois back to illinois one of our favorite states to cover always um they're always very receptive and they like to be made fun of they like to be roasted they're good people in illinois our kind of people that's

why we're always there that's why we tour there the most and uh they're just the best to us so we're going to mount zion illinois which is yes central illinois that was in utah it's it's there's a few of them actually there's a lot of mount zions yeah yeah it's a common name throughout the country i don't know how many and there are but there's got to be at least 10 of them in the u.s i'm sure so uh this is original this is in central illinois though this is is like if Illinois was a dartboard. This is the bullseye. It's dead center.

It's right outside of Decatur, Illinois, which is kind of their little hub. There's like maybe 70,000 people there. Another town that is plentiful. Plentiful. And it's also a lot of Decatur's and the town. The county name, too, is common. It's really weird. This is about three hours to Chicago, about two hours to St. Louis.

So it's kind of, you know, a little in the middle of the two of them, you know, halfway between this and that. Three hours and 20 minutes to Streamwood, Illinois, which was our last Illinois episode, which was some dogs find all the legs. Oh, that was friendly. It was friendly the dog. Yeah. So we're back in Illinois and a dog is going to play another big part of this case, which is so strange. What the hell is happening there? Yeah, I feel like this is a halfway point between other places where you stop to pee.

Okay. I feel like most people— The whole police force is just dogs. It's just dogs and some sort of pee enforcement agency. That old photo of dogs playing poker is a picture of their police force on lunch break. Well, that's Friday night when they get together for team building. That's what that is. This is in Macon County, which it's Decatur and Macon, which are both Georgia.

Very southern. Weird. Area code 217. It's about four square miles, not that big. They actually have a town motto, though, this small town on their website. It is, quote, build your story here. There's another one also that I found. They don't put it on the signs, but it's true.

Quote, you're halfway to somewhere better, which I think is a more, I think that's an optimistic. It's optimistic, right? Sure. i think that's an optimistic yeah it's optimistic right sure i think that's a good one build your story here because there will definitely be an end you're gonna leave probably no people people actually like this town it's very i couldn't find very bad reviews of it it's they really like it here they're fine with it they'll fucking they love it so the history of this town macon county quickly uh was formed out of a part of shelby county it was named for nathaniel macon who was a colonel in the revolutionary war and later was a senator and then um he uh also in this county this is where abraham lincoln and

his family moved in 1830 awesome so when he was young they came here so yeah real history i like it some history shit so uh the township here i found a history of this town and i'm like jesus what a fucking boring history so i'm going to give you like the sahara desert fart fact of the historical part of the town here just dry very dry thing here the township is bounded by on the north by the long creek on the west by the wheat land and south macon townships on the south by millum township on the north by the Long Creek, on the west by the Wheatland, and South Macon townships. On the south by Millam Township, on the east by Moultrie County. It has an area of 39 square miles.

Oh, boy, that is wonderful. The township is well-drained by Finley, Big, and Sandy Creeks. Okay. So there's that. There's a lot of streams and shit. All the water's leaving. It seems like it, and a lot of things are leaving from here. The first settler was a guy named James Finley.

He came from Kentucky in 1827 and built a cabin out of just fucking logs. He didn't make lumber. He just built it out of logs. Just chopped trees down and laid them on top of each other and was like, that's a house now. Didn't trade them didn't didn't know bark off on unhewn logs is what they said that's just nothing there um uh rob low actually oh rob low built the first mill in mount zion township in 1835 yeah well then he filmed himself having sex with a girl inside of the mill.

That was the thing. That's what happened there. It was a band mill run by horsepower. Okay. Holy shit. So reviews of this town. This is the worst review I could find here. This is a three-star review.

The worst one. Quote, Mount Zion is a quaint little town with a small population of predominantly white people. This does not seem to be what the town is looking for. They are a small town, small town people with a with big time vision. Christianity is the acclaimed unofficial religion. Town gatherings for fall or spring bubble into a bountiful array of smiling children. What the fuck kind of review is this?

The children are. What? Well, not bubbling and bubbling into a bountiful array of smiling children what the fuck kind of review is this the children are what well done bubbling and a bubbling into a bow bubble into a bountiful array of smiling children that's a citizen calm down longfellow relax jesus christ holy shit over here loving his place my. The children are very adaptive in regards to cultural variations. What the hell does that mean? This could only be reflective of the acceptance and open-mindedness of the loving, qualified leaders or mentors. This is the mayor or like the mayor's wife. The loving, qualified leaders. Who calls their mayor a loving, qualified leader or anybody who runs nobody's ever said except for like maybe their assistant or somebody that wants them to run for president yeah so they

can say i've been on board the whole time or their aunt who's like he's such a good boy he was always a good he was a nice boy used to mow my lawn i didn't even have to ask him he just come over and start barack obama's brother wouldn't have written that shit about nobody would that's the craziest thing i've ever seen. This is like a. Yeah, it's like it's a marketing. Yeah, it feels just so foreign. It's just very odd.

It's an odd thing. It's very strange. Here's four stars here. There's a low crime rate and I don't have to worry about packages disappearing. OK, that's good. OK. Also. Yeah. Also, the traffic is not very congested. While at the same time, the city is surprisingly clean and there's not a lot of pollution.

But the whole town smells bad because of a giant soybean processing factories nearby. Also, I worry about lung damage caused by a glass making factory nearby that stores crushed glass outside. Why are you giving this town four stars? What are you talking about? You just said the town, it reeks and you're worried that you have glass in your lungs, but four stars. What the fuck is that?

I'm coughing up blood and everything smells bad. What would they have to do to you in this town to give it one star? This person, what like the mayor would have to come over rip them from their home strip them naked and march them through the streets while kicking them in the ass and blowing a bugle like what hang them upside down pack their ass full of broken glass if you like listen you know what still though the traffic wasn't bad during the parade i was they were marching me down the street people could still drive right by if they wanted to so and my packages i did order some shit from Amazon.

When I got home from the torture, all my shit was there. So, you know what? Four stars. I got to my murder trial where they're framing me for murder. Surprisingly easy. Surprisingly easy. Not bad. So strange.

Four stars. If you like small towns, it's not a bad place to live. It's very safe, but there's not a lot of things to do past 10 o'clock. Well, that's a tradeoff that you make. Yeah. Because past 10 o'clock, shit's not safe. So if there's nothing to do and you're in your house, then it's safe. Right.

Plenty of families live here. But to be fair, there isn't a lot of diversity of culture. I would like to see more recreational places and more activities, especially later at night. All of those things bring more crime. Recreation brings people in. That's part of the thing. If there's nothing going on, we'll get drunk and hopped up on some or other. Yeah.

If there's nothing going on, going around, nothing to do. Four stars. Mount Zion is a quiet, safe place to live and work. That's good. The only downside is that the area around it is so rural there's not much to do nearby most good entertainment restaurants and stores are at least 10 minutes away usually much more and here's five stars the supreme town yeah i have been living in mount zion for 10 years and it is safe and welcoming i love the fact that wherever i go i always run into somebody i know. Ugh, Jesus.

One thing I would like to see change is that it would be nice for them to bring something to town that would give it more revenue, like a new park, for example. What fucking park brings in revenue? How does that make money, sir? How does a park make money? That costs all the money. Yeah, no one, and then, no, no. That's not going to make money.

That's 100% overhead. That's all shit to fix and clean and liabilities. This is the guy that's never owned a business in his life. This is the guy that's worked for the man forever. This is a big space where people come for free to generate revenue. If you're saying a park should be there, great, but not to generate revenue. Those don't go together. I understand.

I like having nice things to look at, too, but understand that that costs money. Yeah, that's not going to generate shit. So people in this town, population 5,979, and that's in all of the Mount Zions. That's Mount Zion Township and this and that. They're all a bunch of little places. It's up 32% since 1990. So people are going there. More females than males by a lot.

It's like 53.5 half percent female which is well over the national average and kind of odd when you're talking about 6 000 people that's a big right a big pool uh median age is older 41 and a half but it's all everybody is like 35 to 45 or five to nine years old yeah that's it so it's all obviously like you know families and shit like that with kids uh married population 60 so that goes right along with that um that's very high the divorce rate is higher than normal actually also which you know getting married a lot you're gonna get divorced some do that's how that 50 of those end that's how it works here so race of this town as it's a lot of a lot of uh allusions to it in the reviews of like the divert the cultural makeup here uh it's 88 white which is

high uh 3.3 black which is about a quarter of the normal and uh 0.5 asian and 1.8% Hispanic. So it's pretty fucking white, basically. That's not a lot of anything else going on here. 49% are religious, which is about average in the rest of the country. And they are spread. It's the Midwest. So they are spread out all over the place. There's some Catholics and Baptists and Methodists, a couple of Presbyterians here and there. Hodgepodge of Christianity.

Hodgepodge of Christianity. Hodgepodge of Christianity. 0.0% Jewish, though. None of that Hodge or Podge in there at all. And then 3% Islam, which is a lot, actually. That's high. There must be a community there. There has to be. Yeah, so Macon County in the last elections or the last presidential election, 38% of the people in this county voted Democratic

and 56% voted Republican, about 6% Independent. So you got that. Unemployment rate here is a little bit high, a little bit higher than normal, but the household income is also a little bit higher than normal. Really? Median household income here is about $71,100 a year. How about this? That's over the $57,000 normal. Almost 20% of the people here make $100,000 to $150,100 a year, which is about this. That's over the $57,000 normal.

Almost 20% of the people here make $100,000 to $150,000 a year. Awesome. Household wise, which is great. That's really good. That's why you got four star reviews, because there's some fucking money to be made. That's the thing. That helps. The jobs, though, are disproportionately manufacturing jobs, which is tough because those come and

go. So that's the problem. Right now they're doing okay, but in five, ten years, who the fuck knows? Who knows? It's 24% of the jobs here are manufacturing. It's 10% in the rest of the country. What are they making? Do you know?

That's a lot. I don't know what the hell they're making there. Who knows? Soybeans and glass, apparently, from what I understand. That's part of it. Now, the cost of living in this town of course is a little bit low too 100 is regular average par here it is 78.5 so a little bit low but the housing is only 54 which is low median home cost house i know you do i you're always no matter how bad we describe

a place people are like it's awful it smells soybeans. You'll hear like a house is 82 grand. You're like, I could live there. I could hack it. I could hack it. As long as my house is cheap, I don't care if I'm miserable. I think my biggest problem is that I'm historically cheap. It's not even, oh, Jimmy's pretty frugal. To the point of making yourself miserable.

To the point of wanting to live in terrible places so you're not worried about your mortgage payment. It's awesome. So, yeah, $125,100 is the median home cost here. Okay. So that's super low. And obviously, I'm sure that all of you by now are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt to move here. So if you are, we have for you the Mount Zion, Illinois, real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $765, which is very low.

It's almost half. It's a little over half. Super affordable. I found a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,543-square-foot house. Needs a lot of updating. I mean, it looks like it's 1989 in this joint. Four bedrooms? Four-bedroom, two-bath, almost 1,600 square feet. That's not enough square footage for that.

No, but you've got a couple of kids. You can stuff them in there. If you have three kids and a low budget, this is a good place to be. That'll do it. $104,900. Wow. So, I mean, you can update it a little bit for that kind of price. I found a three-bedroom, one-and-a-half bath, 1,800-square-foot house.

There you go. It's updated a little bit more. It's very plain. It's a decent house. That's what I'd call it. I'd go, It's a decent house. That's what I'd call it. I'd go, that's a decent house. $120,000. Okay.

Definitely doable. That's about the average there. So that's kind of your average house. And then I found a chain link fence, all that kind of shit. Then I found a four bedroom, three and a half bath, 4,458 square foot house. My God. It's new looking, updated, three car garage. Nice big house.

320 grand for that. That would be $2 million in Phoenix. That's hilarious. For sure. How many square feet? 5,000? Almost 4,500. 4,000. Fucking hell.

That would be so expensive. It's a nice house, too. Fucking hell. That would be so expensive. It's a nice house, too. $300,000. $320,000. Like, hey, you might be able to get them down to $310,000. Like, what? Are you kidding me? Three hours from Chicago, two hours from St. Louis.

That's a deal, man. That's not bad. I'm telling you. So things, if you don't mind the crushed glass in your lungs, it's a bargain. Maybe it's got a real heavy soybean scent maybe it's a little valley that keeps it a little soy pocket so uh things to do here pony express days oh no oh no i love whatever it's some like old-timey like heritage festival days and all this shit whatever it's something old-timey you're like, Oh no, white people are going to dress up in old fucking costumes and embarrass

themselves and drive down the road. It's not a good thing to remember. It's really that, but they're going to remember it. God damn it. Oh yeah. So, uh,

this, uh, they have, I'll go through the days of this bitch cause it's got a lot going on. Oh boy. Thursday, August 16th. This was from two years ago or two years ago cause it got got canceled last year was this a route on the pony express is

that why they do it it's like a stopover it's like the pony express camp uh uh fairgrounds or something so i don't know if maybe real proud of that shit i just love it there uh the thursday august 16th uh carnival they have a big carnival i guess which is gonna take your money and crooked games of chance it's games chance the game right but i wish it was chance well they're not games of skill it's a skill for somebody to try to fucking rig it and steal your money games of uh games of thievery here um charity that's family night that night so you can steal from the children and grandma as well that's great we'll round everybody up and take their money that's perfect under the guise of family bonding we're gonna steal your money

sorry you didn't win that knockoff minion i apologize kid you're fucking shit out of luck sorry you didn't you didn't win the memo. Sorry that ball didn't bounce inside the goldfish bowl. I really am. I really wanted it to, but it's not going to. It's also armband night. I don't know what that means, but it scares me. Yeah. There's never been a group that an armband has been a positive thing.

I don't know. I saw that. I'm like, oh, my, that's not good at all. Armband night, that's not great. But who knows? It could be an armband. We don't know what it's all about. Oh, why does this armband have a crooked X on it?

What's going on there? I think my X melted. And we're not saying you're Nazi Central Illinois. You're not Southern Illinois, for God's sake. Thank Christ. Thank God for you. You're very close. They'll like that because everybody in illinois makes fun of southern illinois so that's a bad area so uh the at the special event arena they have the flip side of

fame that's a band that's playing oh flip side of fame you know not famous i was gonna say the flips that they're i think they're wrong in their semantics there the flip side would be you'd have to have one to have a side to flip this is just a two-sided shit coin because i don't know who these people are this has a it's a coin with a picture abe lincoln squatting and taking a dump on it that's what that is that's what you get both sides that's the flip side yeah that's on both sides no the other one he's just he's just got his cock in his hand grabbing it like you like johnny rotten oh my god it gets worse he's flipping it flipping off the sculptor while he's grabbing his balls like he's like it's a sex pistols concert that's what's going on like fucking tupac so uh then there's knocker ball max is going on after that oh boy i don't know if

that's large-breasted women playing some sort of ball game or i don't know what that is but it's or large-breasted women stomping on somebody's balls maybe that's we don't know what happens here it's like they have armbands on anything's possible so i have no idea what's going on um then it's bike night also that night. So, yeah, I don't know if I think motorcycles. I hope next night, another carnival, another arm band. Then the Odd Fellows Steak Dinner, which Odd Fellows is a social club. Is it?

Yeah, my little league. One of the teams was sponsored by Odd Fellows. Really? Like four of the teams in my little league were sponsored by social clubs. Is that weird? Is that a bar? No, no. It's a social club.

It's like a- Like a sex- No, no, no. Like where old men fucking gather and play cards and, you know, like the Ravenite. That's a fucking social club. Not that the Oddfellows are mafia. They're just a bunch of old pipe fitters probably. It's like a bar though, right?

Yeah, it's a private club kind of a thing. Yeah, that's like half the teams in the league were all sponsored by i don't like the word social club it leaves too much to my sick imagination well yeah social you imagine people are jizzing on each other that's the most social activity you can imagine because you say social club and i'm like oh that sounds like a nightclub you're like no and i was like oh my. What could have possibly. Oh, no. This is creepy. Oh, no. Then the band playing that night is the Brothers Odd. There you go. So there's those guys. And then more knocker ball that night.

Yes. Saturdays when things pick up. There's a carnival, but that goes on early. Then there's a road race. I don't know what's up with that. That sounds dangerous. Mud volleyball after that. Oh, yeah.

That's fun. That sounds dangerous. Mud volleyball after that. Oh, yeah. That's fun. Garden tractor pulls. So these are garden tractors that are pulling shit? You soup up your garden tractor, I guess? I like that. That sounds okay. How badass can you get your John Deere? Let's see it.

More about engineering. Yeah. My brother would be great at that. He would have like this. He builds sick things. Yeah, he builds. I've never seen somebody put a manual transmission into an automatic vehicle ever just to do it just because he felt like

it never heard of it and also lifted a bunch too in the process as well it's weird why do you have the transmission i'm gonna put a manual in it why okay sure i just saw some youtube videos you're like what's wrong with you the person that bought that paid extra for that automatic now you're gonna pay extra i don't want that it's a piece of shit after that there's something i don't like just the sound of it it's like armband night could be the most beautiful sweet thing in the world that makes me feel weird the kitty jesus kitty slash adult pedal tractor pull nope i i get that it's probably like a mom and and her son like peddling a tractor together and going come on timmy you can do it but kitty slash adult anything makes me creeped out i don't like it

and then the gun whiskey band is after that oh yeah that's you know they're good what do they like everybody people love guns well fuck i love whiskey stew shit with the gun whiskey band i don't know a bunch of shit people like is it gun with two ends no it's one end one end gun whiskey band that's it and then uh after them, River Bottom Nightmare Band is playing. I believe they're a nightmare band. And I have to show you. I'll turn the monitor toward you. Oh, my God.

I can't wait. Here are the pictures of all these people. Look at the... And then the one coming to, the Feudin Hillbillies. The Feudin, Feudin, apostrophe. Yeah. Hillbillies. And they're pointing at the middle guy he's the hillbilly

he's the one he's we don't lock him he's no good and then quickly i found another thing for a free concert on the hill night they have and they have an advertisement for gospel night featuring saint paul missionary baptist church with larry crawford and the Mount Zion Baptist Church, which sounds like, oh, this is going to be whatever. It says, bring blankets and chairs for hill seating. Grab yourself a Billy hot dog, a cold beer, and stake out your favorite spot on the hill. I'm like, that's some church right there. This isn't like coming, you know, everybody.

This is grab yourself some beer and some hot dogs dogs and we're going to sing about Jesus. Let's get on. Fuck it. Let's do it in the fun way. Also, that's the part that's free. You mean to tell me it costs money to see the feud in hillbillies? You have to pay to see the feud in hillbillies. You got to pay to find out.

You got to pay to find out who's wrong in that scenario. So I got news for you. It's you if you paid. That's right. You're you fucked fucked up you're the wrong one so uh crime rate in this town what we're interested in here is about property crime is about one-third of the national average so two-thirds under the national average so very low they don't steal your amazon packages as the review said honest people if the review has proven out in these statistics. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is under half of the national average. Wow. Pretty damn safe place, I got to say. What's this? Just like everybody says. It's not a lot to do after 10 p.m., but it's a safe place. So let's talk about a murder. Oh, I can't wait.

Being that it's so safe, we kind of have to talk about a murder. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Let's do this. It wasn't safe for you. Some people it definitely wasn't safe for. Let us go back to September 29th, 1996. Okay, so not too far back. No. These people, a couple of them even have cell phones.

I'm sure. There's no like internet on them. They're smidge heavy. Barely an internet, but if you needed to get a hold of them for $6 phones, I'm sure. There's no internet on them. They're smidge heavy. Barely an internet, but if you needed to get a hold of them for $6 a minute, you could do it. Remember the car phones that people would have mounted in the car that were literally $4.80 a minute? If you went to touch it, people were like, don't touch that. It's $4.80. Why do you have it in your car?

If it comes off the hook, they start charging me. Stop it like why do you have it in your car if it comes off the hook they start charging me stop it why do you have it in your car like what emergency could possibly happen that you don't want to so anyway uh this uh is a sunday afternoon a nice it's a late september but it's it's warm it's a warm late september so anytime back east or in the midwest when you get kind of that late summer you know early fall nice weather people are just they're outside soaking it in because they know especially in central illinois you know that's not going to last this is the last of it yeah it's it's going to change like that and it's going to be windy and cold and shitty and it's not going to be anything like this very soon so it's's Lake Shelbyville here nearby.

Lake Shelbyville, about 3.30 p.m. Okay? Nice people are out. Nice people are out fishing. They're just fishing. A man and his wife. Yeah. Just hanging out fishing.

It is, who is it here? Seabaw is his name and his wife Sherry. So his last name is Seabaw and his wife Sherry are out fishing in a boat on the on. It's like a small lake. Very, very nice. Idyllic getting that last that last thing in here. It's near Finley Marina, just off of Finley Marina. They see near the shore and about two inches of water. they see a gray plastic trash bag over there. Yeah. That looks kind of weird.

Fire up the motor and let's get the fuck out of here. Yeah, exactly. They go, let's go look at it. Right. You go in to look at anything in a plastic trash bag in a fucking lake that you find floating. Whatever's in there is now yours. I'm not responsible for that. I don't want to know about it.

Nothing. loading whatever's in there is now yours i'm not responsible for that i don't want to know about it nothing so um instead they go over and take a peek at it here for some reason and uh sherry calls the sheriff's department um when you know when they all go back to where the bag first was um that's about one mile from the coal shaft bridge and about three quarters of a mile from the finley marina if you're from that area so jeff thomas the chief deputy with the uh county sheriff's department here meets tracy and sherry sebaugh the uh the fisher people here uh the area where the plastic bag was found was difficult to get to without a boat there's a lot of you know grown in and shit so that time of year too everything's grown in from the summer. There's no trail. You're not getting through that shit.

Pricker bushes. Summer rains. Everything's big. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's a nice time of year there. So they really had to get there with a boat, and there was no footprint seen on the shoreline. So they think that anything here had to kind of either wash up over here or

be taken by boat no one in the water somewhere else yeah nobody just walked out there and put it in two inches of water walked away um so uh deputy thomas here he cuts into the plastic bag and discovers a human head yeah of course he. Just a severed head in a bag. That's a... Just the head. Ha! Just a head in a bag. Like there's a bowling ball in there. Just double-wrapped in gray plastic trash bag with duct tape around it.

So, like, it's a... Well, it's circular. Anybody want to guess what it is? That's what I mean. Because you're probably right. And it's floating? Or it's washed up on shore and it looks like someone threw it out on purpose and duct taped it up. Want to guess?

Nobody throws a basketball away like this. Nope. And the woman who found it, Sherry Seaboss, said it felt like a head when they went up and pushed on it. They were like, that feels like a head. Let's call the cops. That's why they did it. She's a horrifying woman. She knows what it feels like.

Yeah. I'm not poking and prodding either. Nope. That's crazy. but they do so thankfully for this person's family they do because now they're found but he cuts in discovers a human head he does says he doesn't touch the head nor does he remove it from the bag cuts it open sees it's a head goes holy shit this is evidence obviously of something holy shit this is for a coroner yeah puts it he calls the coroner immediately yeah and uh crime scene and all that shit peep the texts come and it's overrun immediately you

find a head that tends to bring the attention out it's a problem if you find a whole body it's a lot of attention but if it's a head people are like holy shit seems like it should be more attention because uh we gotta find the rest we got a we have to find the rest and b whoever killed this person took their fucking head off that's pretty dangerous this wasn't a wasn't an accident you know this was uh this wasn't a suicide yeah they couldn't have cut their head off wrapped it twice in a plastic bag and then duct tape that would have been really difficult so um deputy thomas gets the coroner there everybody arrives about 45 minutes later turns into a mob scene down there. Officer Joe Seiferman, who will come back into the story a bunch of times, he was called out there where he was met by Deputy Thomas.

They process the scene and the head is transferred to the local funeral home where it's kept in the embalming room. I just didn't know if you find a head and not the rest of shit. Where does the head go? It goes to a funeral home where they keep it in the embalming room because they have one of those. I hope it doesn't just go to the evidence locker at the police station. It's a good place for it to be. I was seriously wondering where it is. Do you put it in a morgue

drawer by itself? Yeah, what do you do? What do you do with a head? So there you go. So if you work in a funeral home, you might get a head coming in one of these days. Oh, we got this. Be careful. That's all we got. We'll find the rest. We'll find it. Don't worry.

We'll put it back together again here. So Sifferman observed cinders and vegetation stuck in the hair. Oh, that's a good clue. Yeah, so he takes these items out with a tweezer and puts them in places in an evidence bag. Sure. Seems like that makes sense. The head, head like i said was in two plastic bags the outer bag was closed with duct tape and the inner bag was tied by a knot so very on purpose now uh greg rowe i do that's hilarious because that's that guy's name and stevie that's the guy who uh stevie the documentary that's i

believe that is the uh i'm running the Aryan Brotherhood around here. I believe that guy's name is Greg Rowe. I'm almost positive it is. And this is literally the same area. It is literally central Illinois. That's fucking funny. I want it to be him. I do too, but I don't think it is because this is literally the same time Stevie was being filmed.

Okay. So I don't think he was a conservation police officer at that point. If he was, God help everybody there because, wow, what a psychopath. So he participated in a search of the lake that took place the next day on Monday morning. Rowe finds a bag floating near the shore in a cove northeast of Finley Marina. He doesn't touch the bag bag but he calls state police investigators the bag contains two hands okay just two hands we're getting there but not near fast enough no a head and two hands is like two discoveries not even half a body that's terrible

that's like how russian mobsters kill kill people to ID the member in the wire. Did he have a head? You put those there. Does he have hands? And then the body is somewhere else. Yeah, usually, but not here, though. There's other stuff here. So that is fucking. If it has hands, then it is not mine.

Then it's not us. Yeah. So the county sheriff, Kendall, and another county sheriff here from another county ended up finding a plastic bag against a tree trunk near the east shore about one mile north of Finley Bridge. This bag contained the right chest area and a right upper arm. Oh, my God. That's so much sectioning. This is fucking bad, bad man this is rough um yeah this is uh they searched more people they kept searching the east shore where the bags were found um they walked north of that area and discovered another bag uh this was i'm sorry they found a body part

that's not in a bag oh no they find a left thigh that was outside a plastic bag. Oh, God. Is the bag there, or is it just no bag, just a body piece? Just a left thigh laying on the shore, by the shore. So they continue north, because that seems to be the trail of parts. You have to follow a trail of body parts. And this is the fucked up part as you're doing this you're i'm sure if you're an investigator you're hoping you find more but at the same time as a human you're like jesus christ i hope we don't find any more i don't

want to see more of this but you know you're going to find more as you're going like you know there's more this is clearly where the body was left um and at first it's like every trash bag you see you're like fuck i gotta do it again and then a little wild card no trash bag surprise it's just a thigh just a thigh just a just a thigh laying there uh they continued north and found another plastic bag this containing two feet okay just two feet we're almost done um yeah this is um this is fucked up, man. So a crime scene tech with the Illinois State Police collected the plastic bags here and turned them over to the coroner. The officer also looked around the bridge, Finley Bridge, Findley Bridge. It is to find anything suspicious.

He found what appeared to be blood on the north rail of the Finley Bridge. He collected the evidence with the cotton swab and all that he also noticed a white mark and a reddish brown stain near the area of the blood stain so they said there was a possibility that was made by a car though that's why he was collecting it they didn't know but they're collecting everything here so um wow yeah that's that's crazy that sherry sebaugh, I thought I felt a human head inside. That was her quote to the newspaper. Jesus Christ. So, man. So let's examine this.

It's a young female. That's what they can tell. It's the same person. It's all the same person. Young female. She's been shot seven times in the head with a small caliber round. It's too much. And dismembered, obviously. You've got to do that.

Yeah, dismembered with some kind of power saw, they believe. Oh, God. That seems to be a popular choice for the dismemberment class, you know, whenever we're talking about this shit. So a pathologist that performed the autopsy here, through dental records, they identify who it is. It's a 23-year- woman named karen slover and uh she is we'll talk about her in a minute she's a mother of a three-year-old boy oh no and uh we'll talk all about her so uh somebody was really really intent on making her disappear clearly because very mad at her very mad at her and very much not wanting her to get

found at least in a hole uh so he conducts the autopsy this guy he identified seven gunshot wounds to the head as the cause of death six it was one to the back of the head and then six on the left side of the head so one she went down and she was clearly laying on her right back of the head falls down bang bang bang bang bang bang just fucking just there you go so much that's a lot that's a lot um and also all the gunshots were from inches away really so this wasn't like uh yeah this this is all very calculated this sounds like a russian mob hit yeah but you'd say why would a central illinois you know 23 year old mother of three or mother of a three year old who works at a newspaper be the subject of a mob hit? And it turns out she's not.

But this is this is fucking bad, man. So they brought a firearms expert in. He examined the bullet and bullet fragments in the case. Most of the fragments were too damaged for identification at least four of the pieces were fired from a 22 caliber weapon here the murder weapon could have been a 22 caliber rifle or a semi-automatic pistol or revolver they didn't know okay so 22 long rifle just yeah it's a 22 caliber deal here the bullets could not have come from a.25 automatic. They ruled that out.

Okay. So several pieces of evidence were collected here, including a partial pant leg from a jean, plastic bags, socks from the feet. The feet had socks on them, which is a strange thing to cut the feet off and leave the socks on. That almost seems like staging of some kind, you know? Yeah. Like from a profile point of view. Duck tape used to close the bag, obviously. The belt and jeans from the waist area of the body.

And some red underwear. Okay. Because I ended up finding most of every, all the rest of her later on here. Inside one of the bags that contained the hands and forearms of Karen, they also found a piece of broken concrete, obviously used to weigh it down. Another piece of concrete was found in the bag containing the right shoulder area of

the victim, too. So they found that. And there's also a partial white sleeve found in this bag. But they said the problem with the, if you're going to weigh a body down with concrete, you have to you can't. The gases will build up and it'll float back up to the top. Right. That's why they stab bodies before they dump them. Okay.

They fucking. Yeah. Yeah. If you're like mob guys who do hits, no, they have to fucking stab the shit out of a body before they dump it in the river or else it's just going to float. So that's one of those weird things. I don't know if I should tell people that probably if you didn't know that already. Now I do. God damn it.

You know too much, Jimmy. Yeah. Let's see here. Pictures of the hand showed that some of the fingernails were longer than others and some appeared to have substances under the fingernails. fingernails were longer than others, and some appeared to have substances under the fingernails. The police decide against taking fingernail scrapings, though, because they say it does not seem like there was any kind of struggle based on the body, based on there's no bruising, there's no scratch, there's no things like that. Who gives a shit?

You scrape anyway. I agree with that. I could give a fuck if it looks like, it doesn't look like it. Well, yeah. Let's not clog up the lab like we found this. We found her in pieces. Let's clog up the lab for this one. OK, yeah. The hands did not show any signs of injury, indicating that there was no struggle.

And he also said that he would not expect blood spatter to occur as the body was being cut because blood stops flowing after death and coagulates within five to 10 minutes. Now, here's something that's a little, this is a little sensitive here and rough. Sand was found inside of her vagina area there. That's crazy. Murphy, the guy who examined her, explained that prior to rigor mortis setting in, the muscles of the body would relax, and this could explain how some of the sand could get in there. They said the sand entered prior to rigor mortis and then was trapped inside as it expanded in water because they said she had a tampon as well, so that would be that.

Oh, no. So that comes important later when there's a scientific battle over this. So they said there's also some skin irregularity on the bridge of the nose, which could have been a result of some trauma prior to the death. Irregularities around the eyes look like they were from after death. And two areas of discoloration behind the ear on the right mandible could indicate bruising and could be pre-trauma death. They're not sure. So the doctor said he believed it was a short time between death and dismemberment,

anywhere from minutes to hours, but not days, basically. He said it was apparent that she died minutes after being shot, though. So the gunshot wounds did it, and they indicate that she was shot at a downward angle of about 30 to 45 degrees. They got real real scientific yeah um so uh yeah there's that and uh investigation obviously they want to know what the fuck's going on here this is uh you know young mother's getting dismembered and thrown in the lake it's

not good for overall seems bad for morale of everybody you know especially for the uh what was it the qualified caring leaders that you think they're the ones who are like we got to figure this shit out now i don't give a fuck figure it out so bad for the for the promo for the feud and hillbillies in their concert series that's coming up that's true they're like jesus gonna affect our ticket sales fuck there's a madman on the loose. More than our terrible name. It's really going to hurt it. So they, the police say, we're trying to go back and reconstruct what took place in her life over the last few days to see if we can rule out people we don't need to be looking at. That makes sense.

So it's like we said, Karen Hearn Slover is her name. She's Slover is her married name. Hearn is her maiden name. The town freaks the fuck out is to put it mildly they as you saw the reviews this is a place that's a quiet family nothing going on after 10 this shit is not cool at all doesn't happen here no uh so they have to put a big thing out in the paper saying though the police believe her murder was not a random act of violence.

There's a whole bunch of things that would be normal to fear for your safety right now. And there's a whole list of, you know, whether you're in a car or walking, it's important to look around and be aware of who's around and what's going on. Literally, they put that in the paper. That should calm you down in terms of like this was obviously somebody that was near and dear to her. You know, somebody familiar with her. That's even more scary because. Yeah. Somebody didn't know that this person was like this.

Obviously, somebody's blending in. Right. I'm terrified. Somebody is blending. That is fucking scary. So, yeah, that's what they're telling us to do here. You quote, you have to do here you quote you have to protect yourself if you have concerns about a situation don't put yourself in harm's

way well no shit yeah um now she works for the herald and review newspaper indicator and uh they put up a ten thousand dollar reward for any information on her. Yeah, she's apparently very beloved here. She works as an advertising consultant there. And she's worked there for a while. And the cops are really looking for. They said there's a task force of eight officers from five different law enforcement agencies. And they said it was not a random act of violence. That was a panel to decide whether it was a random act of violence or not. They literally had a panel quote.

This panel through our discussion believes that this is not something the general public has to fear at this time. Well, thanks meeting about it. Yeah. The public should certainly be cautious, but we don't believe this is someone who just randomly selected her. Well,

that's terrific. Good to good to fucking hear there. Now, a coworker here, because they talked to the co-workers, obviously, they said that, quote, I find it beyond comprehension why someone would do this. It's a very, very sad day. We will walk through this together. We just have to take this one hour at a time she was a very outgoing very personable very cheery person said the editor of the paper you couldn't help but get to know her and like her that's what she was all about um she was supposed to show up to pick her son up from her in-law's house after work and never showed up yeah that's how it works uh the police say there's two or three suspects or possible suspects or leads of people that they have contact with, that she's had contact with, and that they want to take polygraphs.

So they're kind of calling people on the carpet here. We got about three people. Imagine if you're knowing her. You're like, am I one of those people? Fuck. I don't want to take a polygraph. So they're looking at men who she's had relationships with or associations with her. Generally, if she has a feud with a woman at work, they're not going to cut her body into 14 pieces and put her in the lake.

Only a man who wants to fuck her is going to do that. You go off the supposites right out of the gate, obviously. And then when that starts thinning out, then I guess you go to the ladies. I guess so yeah you're gonna you're definitely gonna look for uh a spurned lover of some kind or something like that first though i love when they're like uh nobody nobody didn't like her she was amazing everybody loved her okay somebody didn't you you dummy what kind of put her head into two plastic bags so somebody that fucking adored her did this to her?

Is that what you're saying? Well, OJ did say he loved Nicole very, very much. He said, if I had done it, it would have only been because I loved her very, very much. That's literally what he said. So sick fucks apparently think that's a valid reason to kill somebody. Well, I loved her so much, I figured, you know, if anyone had a right to kill her, it was me because I loved her so much. You know, Jesus, ridiculous. Protecting her from all the monsters out there.

Someone else was going to do it. They wouldn't have been as caring as me. So they said no one has been ruled out as a suspect at this point. Everyone is a suspect. We haven't had time to rule anyone out. Everything is so fresh. We've been going 80 miles per hour on this all day. So they're ready to go here.

They don't think it's connected to another case. The press is really asking if they think it's connected to another case in Champaign County where a man posing as a sheriff's deputy attacked a woman. Oh, my God. a woman oh my god in that case he was wearing a uniform and driving a car with flashing red lights on it and stopped a woman in the morning of september 22nd and sexually assaulted her so that might be the worst person on earth the person that does that just that's that's a very very very scary person that's a very scary person that person is the scum of the earth that person yeah that's bad shit right there so in that case yeah they're um they uh they don't think it's connected to that they're saying yeah because they

they're only saying that because they they found her car on the side of the road like yeah pulled over so they were like hmm well that's interesting so the press jumped to that conclusion but they didn't think so they said that would be a pretty quick progression in a week from a sexual assault and letting the woman go to literally dismembering somebody and wrapping them meticulously and throwing them in a fucking pond it's a different thing so uh taking them apart yes exactly so let's that's yeah with a power saw so let's talk about the people here let's talk about karen and find out what's up with her life here karen hearn is her name karen hearn's her maiden name karen hearn slover and she goes by karen slover because she marries a man named michael slover jr and uh jr here they marry on january 2nd 1993 karen was pregnant with

a little boy they got married yeah her uh you've been there and done that i've been there as fuck and so yeah uh they have a son a little later on in 1993 named colton k-o-l-t-e-n they've picked a very creative way to spell it um and may 1996 they get a divorce so that marriage it was a pretty quick marriage and it was a pretty rocky marriage, and it was a pretty rocky marriage. And it ended, I mean, that's pretty fast, obviously. Three years and a baby later, and it's over. It's over. So September, I mean, that's when they officially got a divorce.

So, I mean, it was over longer before that. Oh, boy. September 27th. Let's go back, because remember, the Fisher people found her her on Monday or on Sunday, the 29th. This is Friday, the 27th. Let's go back to Karen Slover and her boyfriend, David Swan, with two ends. He and they wake up in the morning. They were sleeping in the same place.

Well, you know, stayed in the same place. They got up. They both took a shower. They've been dating for about a month. And Swan's got a background to him. He'd been previously convicted of a felony. And they believe it's aggravated battery was he was convicted of. And he ended up that morning driving his company car to work.

And Karen took his car to work. So she borrowed his car to work, so she borrowed his car. Okay. It is a 1992 black Pontiac Bonneville with the license plate CADS7. CADS7. It's got a custom plate? Yeah, I think it's a custom plate, but I don't know what the hell that means. I don't get it either. That's one of the ones that would drive you bananas. It would.

It probably stands for something. It's probably he only knows the fuck he's talking about. those are really annoying you're like what are you doing it's you don't see it you don't see your plate to get satisfaction out of it because you're driving around annoying everybody yeah you're just being a dick it's all it is nothing nothing just have a aqv42, just like everybody else. Who cares? Yeah. It doesn't matter.

I don't get the personalized plate. I don't get it. Relax. Calm down. You're not. What do you care? Right. It's a goddamn license plate.

So she leaves in that car. She stops by her father's home around 830. He's got a home-based office, and she's on her way to a sales meeting in Spring car. She stops by her father's home around 830. He's got a home based office and she's on her way to a sales meeting in Springfield. So that's the papers in Decatur. But she's got a sales meeting in Springfield. She stays there for about 45 minutes to an hour at her dad's place. She was wearing blue jeans and a white blouse, which are partial. Part of that outfit is found later on. Found some of that. Yeah.

She ends up going to work at the Herald and Review newspaper, 601 East William Street in Decatur. She's, like we said, an advertising consultant. David Swan, her boyfriend, sees her again around 1.20 p.m. in the Herald and Review parking lot. Swan that night was going to a dress rehearsal, or a wedding dress rehearsal, whatever the fuck dress rehearsal is for a show. Just a rehearsal. The wedding rehearsal he's going to. Rehearsal dinner, they call it?

What the fuck? I don't know. So he's going to watch people rehearse a wedding. It's the worst part of a wedding. It's really stupid. Because everyone's in jeans, and you're like, this is silly. What are we doing?

This is just to appease the bride, to let her know we got it honey don't worry it'll be don't worry everyone knows which direction to walk down the aisle we got it we know which order i know i have to walk with her she's an asshole but i'll do it for you but then again if it was up to us yeah we would be picking flowers like as we were going we're like just grab some out of the fuck the hotel's got a shitload just fucking put them out of the fuck. The hotel's got a shitload. Just fuck them up. Put them out on the tables. So there's got to be a happy medium is what I'm getting at.

There's a bougainvillea right there. Glue them together. It'll be fine. There's got to be a happy medium between I don't give a shit and it has to be barback. There has to be something in between those two things. There's got to be a happy medium between I want everything and I don't care. That's what I mean. I want everything and I want nothing. There has to be a happy medium between i want everything and i don't care that's what i mean i want everything and i want nothing there has to be a happy medium between there right there should be but there's not i think me and sarah found it we just got married

in the yard on a moment's notice the happy medium there was both people wanted nothing that's the thing we were both i want nothing and i was like i want nothing either we were like this is great nothing i want less i want nothing either we were like gonna go out to dinner with the family or something we were like we don't even want to do that you don't want to do that i don't want to do that either awesome let's get married in the yard like we just have a few people over and you're like do we have to have them over yeah how many people are we talking so jesus christ and i did so they uh so did she we all cooked and you did too so uh they uh he was going there and karen was going to pick up her son which is all her and michael jr's son colton and then go shopping for a dress to wear to the wedding that's because she's going to go with him

to the wedding but not the wedding not the. So back at work here after they met in the parking lot, Alan Tapley is a guy's name. He owns Paris World. What is that? Want to guess what Paris World is? Does he sell shit that's baguettes? He's the world's leading beret distributor, Jimmy. It's amazing. He just makes baguettes and calls it paris world no he uh he actually runs a savannah georgia modeling agency oh no yeah that sounds whatever so it would seek applicants through newspaper ads and then sign uh models

and put their photos on the internet under the there you know whatever and maybe get them some work so karen had sent in an application uh she's she's a pretty very pretty girl she's blonde and pretty and you know smile model yeah very photogenic and uh she sent in an application and signed on with paris world in july that month, but hadn't gotten any jobs or anything like that. She just filled out the paperwork and said, put me on the roster kind of a thing. So he indicated, though, that he found a job for Karen and called her office phone to tell her about it. He found a job for her. So Karen ends up sending $92 along with a signed contract in for the job.

Never trust any modeling place that wants you to pay money, first of all. If they tell you, go get headshots or go get professional pictures taken, but they're not going to tell you, like, go to this person and give them money. They just say, then it's fine. But if they say, give me money, then that's not a reputable place. I found a job for you, James. It's a nine to five. It's like working for a temp agency. And they're like, this week you're going to work nine to five down at the newspaper.

You need to pay me $250. What? I didn't make any money. I'm still here. What are you talking about? Pay up front. So sign contract. The amount did not include a 10 discount that would be offered

to models who with whom paris world had already secured work so she should have got 10 off should have been nine bucks less he said that the work he had for her would be only temporary anywhere from one day to a month that's what the the call was about so um now swan had to go this is i believe around lunchtime a little after lunch after they met in the parking lot and shit. This is when she goes right after she gets the call. She goes to drop off ninety two dollars in a signed contract in the mail. So Swan had to go to Cerro Gordo, which is a town. And Karen went with him.

They stopped by Karen's apartment to get some pictures to mail along with the contract. And then at three fifteen went to the post office and mailed the contract off to Paris World. So that's how that works. A co-worker of hers, Christine Quintez, she says that Karen got a phone call later on in the day. And she said that she appeared shaken after getting the phone call. Said she was in a really good mood between 2 and 3 p.m., and then she wasn't in such a good mood after that. She said they went on a break at work.

She's been back and forth from work a shitload of times today. That's awesome. This is a great job. I mean, this is a great job. Sweet. Go around to another town, mail shit. This is awesome. And they still say what a great worker she is.

She must be awesome at her job like that's good for her so it's her two hours to do what everybody else does in eight that's what i mean she's fucking awesome at it i guess because they still love her so as she as they returned to work from a break her phone rang and she the the her friend heard karen telling the person about the modeling job, at which point her friend returned to her desk. She said she could see Karen's face change during the phone call. She looked like she was scared and started to shake. Karen then walked by her friend's desk and mouthed the word Mike to her. So Mike is Michael Slover Jr., her ex-husband.

So that's how that went on. Her friend said her eyes got really big she looked scared she was drained she got white that's what she said then she said she quote she walked away and that was the last time i ever saw her so that was that so yeah david swan receives a phone call from karen at about 4 50 p.m so 10 to 5 karen said she's going to pick up colton going to go shopping uh swan said he's with a friend of his and put her on put karen on speakerphone and they were talking to her um swan here her boyfriend asked karen to get him some hair gel while she's out shopping yeah pick me up that's how it looks. You got to get it. Get the mega hold. Get the five.

The blue one. Yeah. So Karen calls her mom right after that, about 5 p.m., to tell her that she's going to pick up Colton and then go to the mall. So that's clearly the plan. She's telling multiple people that. So another woman, Athena Rich, worked at the Herald and Review as a sales rep. She saw Karen in the lunchroom at about 5 p.m. and asked if she wants to come out for drinks with the paper crew at the Lock, Stock, and Barrel Tavern.

So that's where they're going. Work party. Work, going to have a drink. What a fucking nightmare. Hey, I know we've all seen each other all day and been forced to, you want to spend more time together but not get paid for it?

Yes. It'll be free. Awesome. Matter of fact, fact it won't be free it's going to cost you money because you're gonna buy drinks tell you what send in 92 in a contract and we'll all go get some drinks tonight at the lock stock and barrel so karen said she couldn't because she had to pick up colton and then go shopping so can't do it so 505 p five p.m. She leaves the office. And according to everybody's, you know, what she's talked to, she's on her way to Mount Zion to her in-laws house to pick up her three year old son, Colton. the day which is actually in the divorce agreement which is a an odd they said it's an odd addition to it but in the actual agreement it was an uncontested divorce but in the actual agreement it says that jeanette watches the kids until you know five o'clock every day and blah blah blah so one way to keep from having to have a discussion with somebody uh is just put it in there and then you don't have to talk about it's done it's. When your babies are over there, you have custody.

Yeah, but I guess that was his doing. He wanted the kid to be watched by his parents during the day for summer. I don't know why, but that's what they wanted. So David Swan returns home after the wedding rehearsal. It's his hair. We don't know if it's been gelled up or not we have no idea he discovers that karen hadn't come to the house so not gelled where the fuck yeah where's my fucking gel he's got he's got non-shiny hair that's going to definitely be it's going to be a problem if it's windy out it's never going to stay in place it is

dry i need help it's all. It's not falling right. It's a 96, too. He could have had, like, a spiky look. He could have had, like, the who knows what was going on with his head. Yeah, that was a good time. Yeah, I mean, he could have had something. Gel was booming in 96. It's a good gel.

It's a good time for gel. Tell you what, boy, 96 is prime gel time. You get yourself some gel. L.A. Met CEO at a big old house. Big old house right next door to the Drakkar Noir CEO, and they just together, they just ruined everybody's whole head. Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, we're crushing it. All on the same street.

Tommy Hilfiger opened his dumb mouth, and it all went south. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx and I'm excited to bring you

the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max

or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get

treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the W or on apple podcasts huh the hell happened there so swan here this is fucking wild here swan calls donna hern who was who was karen's mom between 9 30 and 9 45 saying that karen didn't come home he said he was concerned that karen had not dropped off some hair gel she was supposed to buy at the mall and thought that was that was out of her and she's like well you know what the fuck's up with that like you know that's a weird thing have you heard from her and imagine if he was like where's my goddamn gel i don't think that's what it was i think he was like she was supposed to drop off gel and she didn't so i don't know like is she all right i think that's kind of what he was getting at but it would be hilarious if he called the mom like fucking gel so uh yeah donna uh donna here got concerned i'm sorry the

boyfriend swan david swan was concerned that about the gel so donna the mother was uh not concerned when she initially informed uh she was initially informed k Karen didn't come home because she said Karen's very active social life she knows everybody and it's not unusual for her to not be where she said she was going to be basically she might have stopped here and talked to this person and she'll be there a little later she's 23 and pretty

she's got a lot of people want to talk to her that's just how it works so she's got a lot of friends you know whatever she's got people in her personal life and then random ass people random people work people everybody likes her she's a likable person so she's got a lot of social engage good for her you know so 9 57 p.m here the car that karen was driving in 1992 pontiac bonneville is found on the interstate on interstate 72 it's running and the driver's side door is open, which is not normal. That's strange.

That's why the press immediately tied that together with the man who pulled people over with the fake police car there. So David Swan was called by police to be notified because it's his car. They look through and it's her purse is in the car. Personal effects are in the car. So they find the registration. See, it's David Swan. They call him up and tell him that they found his car and the motor running and no driver in it. should be in it she you know shouldn't be on the side of the road running so uh after receiving two phone calls from david swan larry hearn her father called jeanette slover the mother-in-law who's watching colton to tell her that karen and colton were missing but uh jeanette said that colton was with her karen never picked colton up so colton's not missing if karen's missing that's one but so obviously that's you know scary but a relief

that the kid's not missing too obviously so um the hearns the karen's parents go to where the car was found and uh there's also there's a police dog on the scene and all that sort of shit prior to this trip around 10 30 p.m larry hearn received a call from michael slover jr that lasted about one minute and hearn didn't remember the call but the records show that the call was made. So in the craziness of, oh, we have to go there where our daughter's missing, they didn't remember this call. So phone records show that at 10.02 p.m., a call was placed from the residence of David Swan to Larry Hearn. That lasted 49 seconds, and then Swan called Larry Hearn again at 10.09, and that lasted 48 seconds.

This guy's the best. He's so, what's the word? He's just very good at making phone calls. He's very succinct. He's just very good at making phone calls. 48 seconds to get whatever it is off his chest, get his informationing hang it up he's very succinct he gets everything out in one one fucking he's very good at phone calls i got

people that call me and i'm eight minutes in and i'm like why the fuck are you calling me that's the yeah not 48 seconds he's a good friend this guy boy he's good problem respectful of your time he's only been Very respectful of your time. He's only been going out with her a month. And all of these callings back and forth, and he'll talk to the police extra later, gets the police suspicious that he's inserting himself into the investigation, which is one of the first things they look for. Even with an efficient phone call.

Yeah, they're like, hmm, he was efficient, but he still was talking about it. And then Jeanette Slover, Michael Jr.'s mom, receives a phone call from Karen's father like he was efficient but he still was talking about it so and then jeanette uh slover michael's junior's mom receives a phone call from karen's father saying that the car had been found on the interstate and karen is indeed missing so that was after the the kid call so jeanette called michael junior at work he's a bouncer at a bar at night and told him that karen was missing so approximately 10 15 p.m., Sherry Chandler answered the phone at the bar she works at, and the person said,

this is Jeanette, Mike's mother. Can you talk to him? I need to talk to him. It's urgent. Junior takes the cordless phone outside the front door, and he remained outside for 45 minutes with the phone, which it's a business. Bring the phone back when you're done

so yeah anyway it's a long call but uh short let's have more than four she's not as efficient as david swan no took her 45 minutes to get that out shortly after 11 junior went back uh went to the back room of the bar they said his eyes were red and the bartender asked him what was wrong and he told her that his mother told her that Karen's car had been found on the highway and her purse was in the car, but she wasn't. So she said that this is the woman running the bar. She said she gave him time to gather himself, but didn't let him leave because she had no one else to cover the front door.

Hi, the mother of my three-year-old has just disappeared. Her car's running. It's very suspicious circumstances. We're worried for her safety. Well, I got to check IDs. I'm sorry. I don't know what the... You couldn't deputize one of the patrons that you know?

Your release comes in in two hours, so I don't know what to tell you, sir. Couldn't grab someone off the floor and throw 50 in their pocket to stand there for a while? You had to tell this guy, sorry, asshole. That's fucking hilarious. So, wow. He went back to work and stood at the door i gotta check ids plus a sobbing bouncer isn't exactly that intimidating no that's true too you have to leave sir i'm sorry we can't serve you anymore fuck you come on so uh at 10 30 p.m gary Schaefer, the chief of police for Cerro Gordo, went to Ronnie's Tavern where Junior worked, saw Junior sitting inside the door. Junior told Schaefer that his ex-wife was missing and her car had been found on the interstate.

Junior was aware that this guy was a police officer. He remained at the front door until 155 a.m. when the place closed. Jesus Christ. Nope. Sorry. Someone can come in.55 a.m. when the place closed. Jesus Christ. Nope, sorry. Someone can come in. It's 1.45. Ain't closing yet. That's amazing.

Then he received a phone call from a male. He had about a 10-minute conversation within eight feet of the bartender Chandler. Junior left about two minutes after the conversation was over, and his car was at the same place it was when he arrived. So he left but didn't take his car. It still was there. So another waitress, Lisa Carnahan at Ronnie's, started work at 8 o'clock, and she said shortly after 10, Carnahan worked the door while Junior took a phone call. She couldn't fucking fill in the rest of the time. What is happening in this place?

He seemed upset and had been crying and all that sort of thing. She said she worked the door four or five times that night and never noticed a difference in his clothing or appearance besides the time that he was crying. His girlfriend... I don't know. The part where he was sobbing uncontrollably.

He was normal except for sobbing. If you've ever seen a grown man cry in a public place, he's just like that. I think I just look normal. You know, otherwise normal completely. Slover Jr.'s girlfriend, Trina Gifford, she says that Jr. got home around 3 a.m. So he left at 1.55, gets home at 3 a.m.

What's he doing? There's nothing to do past 10 o'clock. We've already covered that. Why do you think I picked those fucking reviews to say? So he doing there's nothing to do past 10 o'clock we've already covered that why do you think i picked those fucking reviews to say so we know there's nothing to do past 10 what's he doing 15 minutes of driving around i don't think so uh it's not that far so uh saturday september 28th uh that's when he got home that's saturday morning she said his demeanor had changed by that time and that he was upset he told her that karen was missing and that uh she he'd been notified of this fact by her family at another point and uh she said that she didn't recall if junior had heard from his mother about the disappearance or if she'd

heard it from karen's brother so it's a little point of contention here um so uh junior they send a sheriff's department uh deputy to his house at house at 2 55 AM and informed junior that he needed to contact an investigator with the sheriff's department. Cause they'd like to talk to him, you know, cause he's the ex-husband. He answered the door to his home. He seemed visibly upset. Um, uh, the sergeant thought, uh, they were, he prepared a report that noted junior appeared to be upset and crying. Uh, but he didn't think it was sincere. So that's what he says.

Now, investigation picks up here. Now, the car, David Swan goes to where the car was found and was asked to look inside the car to see if he noticed anything unusual. He said the car was in disarray with several items moved from their normal place. The garage door opener was found near the driver's door but is normally on the visor. Yeah. So, yeah, it's weird. That's where you get off the visor at all. Exactly.

Why would you take it off? Unless you're changing the battery. There's no once every seven years. That's in your eyes and you. Yeah. Goddamn thing falls off because that fucking shit never stays strong what is that clip yeah get a strong clip well i guess figure that shit out bastards or cars have a garage door opener slot for them maybe maybe they haven't built into the cars now the new ones uh yeah but i'm real dumb i wouldn't be able to program that shit anyway programming my car

open my fucking garage door an opener fucking owner's manual so i don't have what if i have to loan it give it to someone who's watching my house or you know if i go out of town i got the dogs what am i supposed to no no i'm not doing that so kiss my ass make a slot i can put it in please right so uh the garage door opener's there um a cup and some change were found in the passenger, but the cup had been in the cup holder and the change was normally in the console, which is strange, but it's all there. Also, David Swan's umbrella and Karen's briefcase had been moved from the back seat to the floorboard, which if she stopped short, that could happen there. But if she stopped short, yeah. If she stopped short, it wouldn't make a cup and some change go from the console and the cup holder to the passenger seat. That would be different.

So Sifferman again, crime scene tech with the Illinois State Police. He's called here a little before 11 p.m. He takes a bunch of pictures and tows the car away. A black purse and maroon planner were taken from the passenger floorboard. Some small black rocks or cinders were removed from the driver's side floorboard. Yes, interesting. Officer Sifferman took latent prints from the interior of the window of the driver's side of the car. Inside the leather business portfolio, Sifferman found a fax cover sheet from Paris World International

and a postal receipt to Paris International from Karen Slover. 3.14 p.m. That's labeled. That's her sheet there. So they're like, there's another suspect. OK, just a specific time. Yeah, exactly. A time we know she was alive then.

So she's been seen a little bit. Two witnesses said they saw a woman they identified as Karen Slo slover in lovington between 5 30 and 6 30 p.m on the night she disappeared another witness reported seeing the car that she drove that day the four-door pontiac with the cad 7 license plate which stands out uh in cerro gordo between 5 45 and 6 p.m and lovington and Cerro Gordo are 20 miles apart. So, I mean, I guess if one was 5.30 and one was 6, I don't know, maybe. It's possible. I hate sightings.

Exactly. That's the worst. Now, Lisa Kidwell, who formerly owned a restaurant in Lovington here, she said a woman she identified as Karen Slover came in and bought an ice cream cone between 530 and 6 p.m. that night. So she actually didn't just see her in a car. She sold her an ice cream cone so she'd be able to identify her. She said she remembered seeing the CAD 7 license plate on the car that she was driving to. So those two together, I can believe. Later on, she couldn't describe what she was wearing, though, what Karen was wearing.

And she acknowledged that she never met her before. And other than the plate, she said she can only recall the car was driven by a woman. She said the car was dark colored. She couldn't remember colors of anything, but she remembered Karen. Which, I mean, she didn't talk to the car. She talked to Karen. So some people remember that more. Sharon Nichols. She worked at the grocery store across the street from the restaurant. She says that a woman she identified as Slover bought a pack of chewing gum there between six and six thirty p.m. She also couldn't remember what she was wearing, but she identified her. So right across the street, same time. So that makes sense. Two different people. She also they also testified to seeing a greenish vehicle. Someone else did in Cerro Gordo between 545 and 6 p.m. One witness couldn't see who was in the vehicle. She said she saw the car stop in the parking lot of the IGA grocery store with a short man and a short man with brown hair and a mustache got out.

Another witness, James Thais, he said that he was traveling on I-72 the night that she disappeared, and he saw two cars traveling at high speed. He said it happened about 9 p.m near exit 172 uh he said that uh or i'm sorry uh near yeah near exit 172 he said that the cars were almost bumper to bumper when they passed him traveling about 90 miles an hour wow so they're either racing or on each other's ass or chasing or something. Racing or chasing. Racing or chasing. Ass grass or fucking gas.

Sorry, that made me laugh. He remembered the letters CADS from the license plate, but said the vehicle with the plate was light colored. But it's nighttime. So and if that's the lead car and it was the car behind that person at nighttime, that's the one that gets your attention. Well, the headlights on the back of that car. You can't tell what a color a car is at night with headlight light on it. It just doesn't. It doesn't show properly.

It just doesn't. Not just headlights, but any lights at night because they're all some weird color. I saw some documentary about a truck that the guy got away for a long time because everybody thought he was driving a pink truck it was fucking white yeah we're gonna just look pink by the witnesses because of the way the street lights are wasn't that an episode that was one of our episodes was it yeah i think that was i think that was small town murder man i think that was you know your job your job. I'm pretty sure. But I don't remember the exact thing, but I think that was from that. There was a story I heard once about. I heard a story once.

It's about this murder. I doubt it had anything to do with this. I'm sure it doesn't. But I think that was it because it was the way the streetlight hit it at night. Yeah. Is what it was. Yeah. I remember that too. It was one of way the streetlight hit it at night. Yeah. Is what it was. Yeah. I remember that, too.

It was one of these. Did we see that together? No. We talked about it for two and a half hours. I don't know why I would remember this, James. It just stuck in my head about a murder somewhere. You know how it is. So somebody, two cars, 90 miles an hour a little before the time the car is discovered.

That's something. cars 90 miles an hour at the little before the time the car is discovered that's something another witness david reek reekworth he said that he saw a vehicle with the cad's license plate on i-72 his sighting was around 8 10 p.m the uh it was in the eastbound rest area near argenta he said he couldn't see inside the dark colored vehicle and no one got out while he was there a co-worker of hers said that she saw Karen in the parking lot of the Herald and Review leaning over and apparently talking to someone in a vehicle before she took off from that night, 5.05 p.m. She said she couldn't say for sure when she saw her near the car, but she thought it was after work. But it might have been at lunch when she was talking to David.

We don't know that for sure. Does Karen start with c k a r y n okay so it's got a y you know it wasn't i'm changing my mind about cads at the moment just because it has saved and helped so much already that's one thing about the personalized plate it's a shitty stupid plate like that people are people sit in their car and go do you see see that dumbass plate? They were driving nine miles an hour. Who cares? What the fuck does CADS mean? You see? It's true, man.

Also, people heard some gunshots. One witness got up and took her dog for a walk, which lasted about 20 minutes. It was a quiet evening, and sometime during the walk, this witness heard several distinctive popping noises. She described them as rhythmic, just consecutive and in a rhythm. She was not familiar with the sound of a handgun, but the sound she heard were different than the sound of a shotgun during hunting season is all she knew. The ones that she hears out in the woods.

She contacted police two weeks after the Slovers disappearance to report the story to them. Florence Keller lived in cerro gordo um there's a car wash railroad tracks in a wooded area located to the north of her house uh during the jenny jones show that she was watching which aired for an hour uh very 96 very 96 this whole thing she's all hair gelled up watching the jenny jones show it airs immediately after the 10 o'clock news she heard four pops is what she heard her bedroom window was open and she said she heard the first pop and then three more consecutive pops she said she heard the gunshots she's heard

gunshots from a 357 a 22 and a 38 but the pop she heard that night sounded like they came from a smaller caliber gun she has some expertise here that's a horrifying woman that's pretty cool she's like that's a 22 that's pretty badass so she's like the kids from that keanu reeves movie where they hear the shots and they go nine millimeter yeah she's badass dude she's watching jenny jones yeah over the din of jenny jones right she hears some pop she's like that's a 22 ain't shit and then she goes back to jenny jones i like this lady some kids are shooting squirrels i think ah fucking pains in the asses don't shoot each other all right back to jenny jones bitches let's see her try to get some people together and fail okay after hearing the pop she

looked out the window and approximately 20 yards away she saw two individuals coming through the woods on a path located along her neighbor's house they were wearing dark clothing and walked south of the out of the wooded area toward the road. One was heavy set and the other was a little taller, about five, eight to six foot and not as heavy. She was several days later, law enforcement interviewed her and she told them of her observations. That's how that went.

Now the police immediately are looking at David Swan. He's only been around for a month. So if you have the two, she's known Michael Slover for years. He's never killed her. Right have the two she's known michael slover for years he's never killed her right basically she's been alive the whole time this guy's known her a month and now she's dead so they're concerned with him but she also has an ex-boyfriend before him as well so they're gonna see here because she's 23 she's dating you know what i mean so her boyfriend said uh they look at her um he had some like we said some

legal problems by the way one of them was for impersonating a law officer which that's not cool uh he also had a felony conviction for aggravated battery uh now david couldn't account for his whereabouts for 45 minutes on the day of the murder there's a 45 minute window where he can't prove where he is uh he'd been late to the rehearsal dinner when they talked to everybody and he was slated to be the best man oh so if the best man is late to the rehearsal dinner there's something up there it was a calm down i know what i'm doing i stand there and look like an asshole trying not to lock my knees and pass out so this part i just stand there right this part's kind of you guys doing everything i

don't really do anything are we rehearsing the toast point to me when it's my turn to pretend like i lost the ring how's that that's all i'm good the uh rehearsal dinner was at tater's family grill yeah so that sounds good uh police interrogated him for four hours but while trying to get an alibi out of him or something until he finally mentioned that he went over everything again. And he goes, I stopped to get money. I remember I stopped to get money. There's that. They're like, yeah, right.

But then they found the bank had video footage of him getting money nowhere near that and on the way to his rehearsal dinner. That's very helpful. His story completely checks out. He's with other people. Then he's at the ATM. Then he's at the rehearsal dinner. That's very helpful. His story completely checks out. He's with other people. Then he's at the ATM. Then he's at the rehearsal dinner. There's no there's no in between there. So Donna, Karen's mother, said she talked to her daughter the day she disappeared about planning to pick up her son and all that. Michael Jr., they look at him now. He works. He's at Cub Foods is where he works on East Pershing Road. And after he finished his shift as a shift as a security guard about 6 p.m., he gave a private karate lesson at a home on Tanager Drive.

The look on your face right now. A private karate lesson. Is there anything douchier than a private karate lesson? I don't know why that's douchey. If it was any other lesson, I don't know why, but a private karate lesson just seems silly. This is far too post-karate kid to be still in the karate thing. This is 96. Karate was like not a thing.

This is weird. was like not a thing this is weird so uh after leaving there about 6 45 p.m he stopped at a car accident and talked to a police officer just stopped while there was a car accident went up and talked to the cop uh what happened what do you think it's not even it's just he just talked to him just like how's it going good yeah how you doing blah blah blah just to be like you see me right yeah that's what they're thinking here. Sunday, Sunday, officer. You know how it works there. It was Friday night. So either way, he told he then said that he told the cops he went home for a quick shower

and was at Ronnie's Lounge just after 8 p.m. for his job as a bouncer. He didn't get off work there till two. And we know what happened there. Co-workers, the family he taught karate to, and the police officer all verified everything he said. But the woman he lived with at the time did not remember seeing him home that night around 7. So she doesn't remember him being home to take a shower and all that. So also, the parents who had Colton, they look at them. Michael Slover Jr. said he was with his girlfriend uh like we said

uh lisa smothers who was an employee at cub foods she uh she works the time clock i guess she's in charge of that she said that employees would scan their time card and a computer would collect the info her job was to collect you know take it all make sure the people clocked in and out correctly, and she's doing the payroll. So she saw Junior here at Cub Foods at about 4.30 p.m. on Friday. In her office, they spoke for about 10 minutes. He forgot to clock in after his afternoon break and had come to let her know. So she fixed the problem on his time card. So she just entered in manually when he came in. Yeah.

She was shown a printout of the timekeeping system for those days and uh i guess he said he clocked in at 1209 which made him late for his shift and he clocked out at 3 24 p.m clocked back in at 339 p.m and then he added 339 uh she added the 339 punch in to fix a mistake he made when he forgot to clock in after his break. So he clocked out at 3.24 p.m. and then came back much later and didn't have – So he forgot to clock back in, yeah. Forgot to clock back in. But at that time, she was still at work.

She was seen at work until 5.05, so that doesn't work here. at work till 5.05. So that doesn't work here. So she said she could vouch for his presence at 3.39, but she could not account for his presence until 4.30 when she saw him. And she also noticed that Junior had a shoplifter in his office around 5 p.m. So she says that there was nothing unusual about his behavior. It was common for him to forget to clock in or out. That week alone, she made corrections for him on two other days.

So he's just a flake with that. She is not good with time. Yeah. Now, his parents were either together or alone for the whole basically late evening and afternoon. Especially when they're babysitting a three-year-old. They're not going to go have parties. especially when they're babysitting a three-year-old. They're not going to go have parties.

Each of them talked about going on a trip to Kmart where Slover Sr. said he bought a certain Play-Doh set that Kmart said they didn't sell. So that's an interesting thing there. Michael Slover Jr. was the last person. Basically, he talks to everybody here. Another person here is Michael Mannix is a retired Illinois state police officer. He led the investigation later on. He's retired.

Obviously, he talks about he's an expert on grasses and we'll get to that. Another guy they talk to here is a former Karen's former father-in-law Slover senior. Yeah. They said that he cried two or three times and he prayed for Karen when she was missing. That's when the police talked to him. The police officer that talked to him said that he gave details of his

activity in the days after Karen disappeared. And he said that he and his son drove to Piat County on September 30th for an interview with the sheriff's deputies. And senior told the cop that during the trip, Jeanette called him to tell him Karen's body had been found. So that's how that Karen has no shortage of people that could kill her. That's unbelievable. It's a lot. It's very dangerous. She told her friends many times that she had to physically pull her son away.

This is Karen I'm talking about. Had to physically pull Colton away from the Slover family when she picked him up. On one occasion, Jeanette Slover reportedly said, Colton, don't worry. One day you'll be all mine. Is what an ex-boyfriend said that was there with her when her boyfriend asked why she kept taking her son to the in-laws karen said she was in fear of them and didn't want to cross them basically and it was in the divorce agreement and it was just easier to do it this way yeah so um i guess a bunch of people knew that karen and jeanette got into an argument over placing the boy in an all day preschool three days a week.

Jeanette, I apparently that was like in the month before the death. Jeanette said, though, they worked out their differences over the disagreement and it was fine. So also she had another kid with her. Jeanette did. She was babysitting Colton and another kid named Clayton. And his mother came to pick him up around 5.20 p.m. But usually, that's when the mother usually came. But the other kid's mother came early that day.

And she was there. And nothing was unusual about anybody's demeanor or anything like that. A guy named Keith Wiggle, these people's names, Keith Wiggle lived next door to senior and Jeanette Slover. And his son was born at 5.50 a.m. that morning. And he didn't get home from the hospital until 3 or 3.30 in the afternoon. He laid down to take a nap about 5.30 or 6 p.m. And he got a phone call from Jeanette asking about the baby. Following the phone call, he took a shower, went back to the hospital,

and then came back at about 11 and went to bed. He said nothing was going on unusual around the house or anything like that. So that's normal. Senior tells them he works as a pipe insulator at the Clinton Powerhouse and also operates a car lot called Miracle Motors. Clinton powerhouse and also operates a car lot called miracle motors. He said he left for work at 5 30 AM, got home from work at four 30 or 5 PM.

And he said that Jeanette and Colton were there when he arrived. And that's that. So now Mary Slover, this is Michael jr. Sister. Okay. Uh, she does not like Karen and she lets it be known.

She told many of her coworkers that Karen was not a good mother and wished she would die of cancer or in a car accident. Holy shit. That's cold. Um, yeah. Uh, she also, she admitted to saying later on to police that she hoped skin cancer would, quote, eat her face off. My God. Jesus Christ. Why is she so mad?

Jealous much? Yeah. This pretty bitch. That's what she's saying. You know it. Her best asset, her goddamn face. Burn it off. Yeah. She's like a terrible ex-boyfriend or something.

So imagine. Oh, yeah. She's like a terrible ex-boyfriend or something. Can you imagine? Yeah. October here comes around a couple days later, and police conduct a series of search warrants at Miracle Motors Automotive Dealership in Mount Zion, which is owned by Slover Sr. and Jeanette. They found apparently burn barrels. In some burn barrels, they found some buttons from jeans that were the same jeans that Karen Slover was wearing at the time of her death in a burn barrel. Yeah. Like a button fly? Yeah, exactly.

It was a button. It was a very particular type of button fly that only one store around there sold. They traced the button back to the manufacturer, back to the lot of jeans that were made over here, transferred to an Iowa warehouse, and then into this store. Like, I went all the way down the rabbit hole with these fucking jeans. For an hour, I was reading about jeans from 1996 and the buttons that they use. Like on a VSU. Like an asshole.

Yeah, like a complete asshole, I was doing that. That's what I felt like. I felt like that guy. Yeah. It's a black, it's an Avia.ia just god damn it's somebody who fucking bought it i the most fascinating thing about that is that richard ramirez found the one pair of those in los angeles one goddamn shoe one pair of those got to los angeles and so how many shoe how many stores sell shoes in la right a thousand two thousand Who the fuck knows?

He walked into the one store that had one pair of those that happened to be in his size even. What are the odds of that? Not even just happened to be in his size. Also, in his price budget. What are the odds of that? What the fuck? He was like, yeah, those. Oh, these happen to be the only pair in existence in the western United States.

Like, what the fuck? Maybe that's what the salesman told him we have one pair of these they're the only ones and 25.99 pretty good deal pretty good like bruno mollies or some shit there yeah exactly we'll talk about all that in the patreon episode and i didn't mean to get off it's the only other person that got a rare set of shoes it's wild man it's i have i have black supermans yeah but you don't kill anybody no if i did if i did i would wear the black supermans just because they'd be so distinctive they're like it's filipino yeah it's a philips for shoe from the philippines about a guy who played in the 80s

and had a coke habit this is missing half its soul oh it's gotta be weird. Only James has those. And he was wearing a tender, juicy hot dogs jersey. It's got to be him. So they also recovered some bone fragments from the property at the time. And they brought a and also police brought a bone or a box of meat near the property where it was cut up for comparison purposes. None of the photographs. There's a bunch of photographs. There's a thing about the comparisons here. Now, there's a whole thing about photos that they argue about,

whether they took photos of the burn barrel and they took photos of their experiment, but whether the photos should be in court later. It's crazy. So a lot of fighting about that here. So they search all of this the search accounted to a mini archaeological dig is what they called it in the paper here uh it was the herald and review by the way that she worked at had a lot of great articles on this so uh police shoveled two inch deep sections of dirt into buckets and then sifted them

so it's very controlled because of a recent snowfall they said it was like trying to sift mud pie so investigators found uh that's right when they found the metal button in the dirt too and uh so there's that um they took they had to get like this big um big like uh flamethrower thing to melt the snow and soften the ground so they could dig. It's frigging insane. So now they say, as the time goes by, because we go into 1997, no arrests, still investigating and all this, the police say they've accumulated more than 2,400 leads in the case.

2,400 leads here. They said they learned that Michael Slover Jr. had a group of men who sold used cars on their own. He processed the paperwork and let them drive on his dealer plates in exchange for a $100 fee. So they did uncover like a little sleazy operation. Slover Jr. is running out of there, but that's about it. Park it in the McDonald's parking lot with the for sale sign on it. Yeah. That weird shit. Yeah, you can use my dealer plate.

Right. And also there's abuse allegations here about michael slover jr uh physical and verbal abuse of his ex-wife here and demeaning statements about her jill scribner and laurie lee hall who are friends of slover they said that the three were at hall's trailer in late fall of 92 after a girl's night out just hanging in the trailer after a girl's night out. Just hanging in the trailer after a girl's night. That's very sex in the city. I got to tell you right there. That's sex in the small town. Sex in the small town with sex in the city.

I was saying, I guess it's a couple of years later. Sex in the city is mid 90s. So I was trying to throw that in there and they're trying to be glamorous. Yeah. But instead of like the stoop of your the stoop of your uh greenwich village brownstone you're in the your friend's mobile home i would set a stairs yeah oh baby well the wrought iron that's you know it's class if the wrought iron rail is square tubing we call it wrought iron at least it's at least it's not just two blocks on the ground

to step on that's just some channel my uncle willed together uh we. At least it's not just two blocks on the ground to step on. That's just some channel my uncle willed together. We call that wrought. It's rotten. That's why we call it wrought iron. You know how that goes. We made two steps out of three cinder blocks, if you just want to come on up there. So anyway, they said they were there and they weren't married yet. Karen and Michael, someone called on the phone and then the three of them went in Karen Slover's car to the parking lot of Cub Foods where Michael Jr. works.

She dropped the two women off at the front door and then went to park the car on the side of the store. The two friends said they walked to the corner of the store to get a view of her car as she parked. She said that Karen parked her car next to the one they recognized as belonging to Michael Jr. He got out of his car, opened the driver's side door of Karen's car, reached inside, grabbed her by the neck, and pulled her from

the car. Holy shit. They said he then threw her against the car door hard enough to make the car rock back and forth. Holy fuck. Jesus Christ. This is at his job. Are you kidding?

This is in the parking lot of his job. Who the shit beats their wife at work? That's insanity. Like, it's crazy to beat your wife, but usually people do that shit in private. They're not like, fuck, I'll do it at the office. Hopefully my manager doesn't see this like what the are you kidding me so uh the two friends yelled and screamed and ran to them thank fuck uh so michael jr stopped and apologized for his actions and said that he'd never done

anything like that before and he was just so upset i got a hold of him there so a few days later karen arrived for work at the jc penny photo studio yeah i'm sure that job doesn't exist anymore no where no where uh scribner was also employed and she said that karen pulled back her hair to reveal yellowish bruises on her neck where michael had grabbed her hard yeah that's crazy um another one of her friends, April Smith, said she was visiting Karen after her marriage when Michael Slover Jr. arrived at the apartment they rented. She said Karen was pregnant at the time and showing. And from where she was seated on a living room couch, Smith said she could see directly into the bedroom where Slover Jr. asked Karen to go with him. She said she observed Slover Jr. push Karen onto the bed and get on top of her, pinning

down her shoulders. Jesus Christ, of a pregnant woman. Visibly. She said she could not hear what was said, and Michael Jr. soon left without speaking to her. Another friend, this is not going, stopping. He does this at his job. Of course he does

it in front of friends. That's what I mean. He does it at his job. He's got no shame whatsoever. He's like the Bill Cosby of wife beating this guy. It's all sorts of coming out of the woodwork. Just lets everybody see it, though. That's what I mean. Yeah, except if he did it like on the set of the Cosby show. Release to Rashad.

I'm going to drug and rape this young actress who's trying out for the show. Hold on. Elvin, get out of the show. Hold on. Elvin, get out of the room. I need you to watch this. Theo. Theo Huxtable. Let me teach you how to rape. Fucking awful. And somebody get

Camille out here. She already knows. Yeah, she knows. But I want her to see. We didn't mention Pudding once no that's impressive so uh they uh they said rebecca underwood said that during 1994 she planned to meet michael and karen jr at a fast food restaurant after they had visited a local club underwood said she arrived first and seated herself inside to wait. When the Slovers arrived, she had observed that Michael Slover Jr. was talking with Karen in the car, edging closer to her as Karen edged away.

She said Michael Slover placed his hand on Karen Slover and she got out, but also exited the car and got in front of her as she tried to enter the restaurant. So he was, was like blocking her uh he then grabbed her by the left arm and swung his right hand across the face and hit her in the face with his white hand right hand uh she said karen entered the restaurant while michael got back in the car she observed karen had a the the imprint of fingers on her left cheek and her face was red so So, yeah, he smacked her. At a cookout held by mutual friends in October 1995, Underwood said she went into the house to get a glass of iced tea and walked into an argument between Karen and Michael Jr. Karen Slover was saying that she would leave him, and Michael Slover Jr. responded, I'll kill you.

So that's a nice deal. No, you won't. Then he noticed Underwood standing nearby, and he said, I was only joking. Yeah. I wouldn't kill her. I'm just kidding. That's so funny. That's how I joke around.

She said, but then proceeded to tell Karen that if she left him, she would never see Colton again because he would use policemen, judges and lawyers to make sure of that. That was the quote. But I won't kill you. I was just kidding about that jesus um sherry chandler who's the bartender at ronnie's lounge where she worked uh worked for about said that he worked for about two years as a doorman there the evening of karen slover's funeral michael jr and several friends were cheering shots is the way she put it raising their glasses oh yeah tapping them down yeah they

were cheering she could have said that better anyway shots cheering shots they were giving toasts toasting that'd be better her husband shots i know what that means everybody knows what that means they're drinking shots and toasting that would have been a better way to put it her husband bill said he visited ronnie's two or three nights a week after he got off his second shift job at the factory and he was there october 5th for about a half hour he said he was standing two to three feet from the table when michael slover jr and his friends were celebrating he heard slover jr say that's one bitch i won't have to worry about before a shot whoa um yeah that's aggressive um that's pretty specific uh and that's just don't even if you're not talking about that

yeah even if you're talking about you just had like a wayward dog put down that's awful enough but like if it's the day of your ex-wife's funeral who you were kind of being suspected of killing you should probably not say shit like that in public is all I'm saying. So, yeah, they heard him refer to her as a bitch and a fucking bitch several times. Also, she was always saying that, which if that meant you killed your wife, you'd be a wife killer because you've you've had your own ex-wife. Oh, sure. I'm saying horrible things. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. But then she's not dead, so that's good. She still breathes. Now, after a minute here, they end up, through all of this we'll talk about here, they end up arresting the Slovers, all three of them. Really? The parents and Michael Sloverlover jr uh for something very specific that they find here but at the same time they do this they need somewhere for colton

to go so mary slover michael's sister takes her takes her takes him yeah the one that really hates wants cancer to eat karen's face off when asked why, she said, quote, it was the natural progression because she had already been doing many of the tasks of a mother anyway. So what she did is adopted him because it was okay with Michael Jr. because he's sitting in jail and Karen's not there to contest it.

So she adopts him, she says, to provide stability and security for Colton. But the birth certificate was changed after the adoption and now listed Mary Kay Slover as the mother of Colton. Took Karen off the fucking. That's bizarre. Off the birth certificate. What are they arrested for? No mention of the boys for murder.

They arrest them for murder. No mention of the boy's mother in the birth certificate. After the adoption in 1999, Mary Slover, Michael Slover Jr., and Colton, this is before the arrest happens, they all moved to Hornbeak, Tennessee. Yeah. Mary Slover's co-worker said she researched states where grandparent visitation is more restricted. So the Hearns can't see her, can't see him. Karen Slover's parents went to court several times to maintain visitation with the grandson. It was a huge pain in the ass.

Now they found some physical evidence. Witnesses who lived and worked near the used car lot that they ran, the Slovers, saw Michael Slover Jr. and Michael Slover Sr. cleaning up the car lot. This was rare because they had a history of this place being a shithole. Seriously. We're just going to conveniently start setting it up now. Yeah, and this was the days right after the murder, so much so that they get constant notifications from the city to clean up or be

fined or whatever and they just ignore it and it's like it's known as a sloppy place we just have to get some time together that's all yep it became overgrown with weeds and brush some people saw they saw said they saw slover senior burning debris in an area near the large metal garage investigators say later on that they found bone chips that are possibly human and the buttons in that area. That's where they found it. People associated with the Slovers at the car lot reported seeing a bloody mess

behind a metal building on the property. A bloody mess, blood everywhere. Michael Sr. said the mess was left over from butchering rabbits. How many rabbits? i don't know but probably a bunch with a chainsaw or with a fucking uh circular saw or something so i get tossed around bloody mess another man said the blood was gone after the tall grass was cut so they cut the grass they got rid of the blood so then there's the dig here um they had a lot of

concrete and cinders that remember that resembled remnants used to weigh down the bags on the property as well. They called in the U.S. Army to help sift through the soil here. It's a 5,000-square-foot area. So they call in the Army, and, yeah, this is after they cleaned it all up. So they're really looking. They have to look really close here. Six months into this dig, the task force found the found that's when they finally found the metal button. So that's what took the army to find a fucking metal button.

That's how much this is crazy. During the March 1998 dig, they found the button. They found two rivets similar to the buttons and rivets found on the jeans covering the part of her dismembered body. They all matched up. They also found a cloth button similar to the button on a woman's sleeve. They found bone chips, but they couldn't make anything of that. They also found they had botanists from the University of Illinois match two kinds of plants on the car lot to weeds found in Karen's hair as well.

The trash bags containing the body parts were weighted with concrete a forensic geologist from canada said the pieces of concrete are similar to the pieces found at miracle motors holy shit that's good no they were of different colors but they said that's because one was soaked in water before one wasn't so they're gonna be different authorities said the cinders which are a byproduct of burning coal um at a staley manufacturing company were washed out of trucks from a company that rented land adjacent to the car lot so that's where cinders come from there drivers washed out the trucks and the cinders ended up uh over much of the car lot

forming a cinder and gravel parking lot. He said the cinders are all similar in their makeup, so it's hard to tell. You can't tell a batch or anything. Also, grass, like we said, they found all sorts of grass here, different ones, three different species of grass. It's pretty boring to get into that.

The cinder guy was pretty interesting, actually. And then finally, authorities find several dark colored dog hairs on the duct tape used on a bag to dump part of her dismembered body. Like on the tape that was taped on, there was dog hair stuck to it. That's what happens when you go in anybody's house that has a pet. That shit is everywhere. If you put a piece of duct tape on my hoodie right now and pulled it it off even though i'm not near my 2 2500 miles from my dogs there will be a dog hair in there it doesn't matter it's just it will be there you have it in inside of you there's dog hairs you left them on an airplane seat they're around yeah they're everywhere yeah so uh they found several

dark colored dog hairs like we said uh they were only only able to extract DNA out of one of the hairs. Dog DNA. Oh, they extracted dog DNA. Dude, this is this has never happened in the history of crime. And it's never happened on our fucking show, obviously. They said based on one in 56,000 odds of an animal possessing the same genetic markers on a database containing the genetic profiles of 470 dogs. None of those dogs were from the Midwest and all were purebred. Christopher Bastin, who's an expert in statistical genetics from North Carolina State, was invited to review the data, and they said that he said that they should make adjustments to the calculations to account for the high degree of inbreeding among dogs in the database.

Right. He said that he placed the odds of a dog possessing the same genetic markers found in the hair with Slover's body to be 1 in 1,680. Wow. So a little bit less, but still, that's pretty fucking close if you're talking about... How close do you think we are to them, like,

putting DNA into a computer and hitting enter, and then, like, it can process that DNA and create the image of the person? Like in a movie? Like, basically, like on CSI or whatever?

Right. That's kind of what they do. They just go, oh, this is what the DNA is, click enter, and then they go, oh, that's the guy, Richard Ramirez, that's what he looks like. He builds a 3d thing of his face and you're like

oh okay there he is let's go grab him and then they're gonna do that with dogs where they click enter and you're gonna see like where the black spots match up on their faces and shit like that and you go i've seen that dog that's fucking slovers dog that's fucking goddamn slovers i know that dog i see it i can see him look at. Look at him humping away. So the dog hair here belongs to Cagney, a black Labrador mixed dog owned by the Slovers. There you go. He possesses those genetic markers. They said that the tests eliminated the Elder Slover's other black Labrador mixed dog and a blonde dog that lived near the Mount Zion car lot as being the source of the hair. It comes from Cagney.

So Cagney, fucking Cagney and friendly solving murders. Cagney and Lacey. Cagney and Lacey. So basically, basically in Illinois, if you want to solve a murder, you needed the help of a dog. Yeah. They're the best at this. Dogs are such, they are such good detectives. They just they they find everything.

Only a fucking dog can do it. But you can find a dog. So they Jesus Christ, this is wild. So they said this is weird and it doesn't happen. We've never done this before you know what's up with that uh they said because fingerprinting is established in humans doesn't mean that you can just take it to that you can just take that and transfer it to the dog world that's what the attorney said and they went you know actually we've got some pretty good

scientific experts in here say fuck yeah you can yeah so uh give it a shot also a forensic scientist with the illinois state police testified a cloth button found at the uh car lot could have come from a blouse that karen slover was wearing when she disappeared and we said that they compared the button in the car lot uh with the one found in the torn section of the blouse. And he said the buttons had the same measurements and fabric. And, you know, there's that. So, and then if the Slovers at this point aren't sucking enough in your brain, if you're not upset with them enough, here you go. Jeanette and Senior had their dogs euthanized after they were matched dna wow yep they took it out on their

dogs they they said you motherfucker and uh put them all down had them put down um yep uh that's fucking wild man unbelievable the prosecutors have a theory here that Karen showed up to pick up her son, and they said that their theory is that Jeanette shot Karen in the back of the head when she showed up. Because that would have been the normal thing that Jeanette was there. She shot her in the back of the head, and then they think somebody else came, pumped the other six into the side of her head. Somebody else came, pumped the other six into the side of her head, and then they took her down to the car lot, dismembered her in the back there, bagged up the pieces, weighed them down with concrete chunks from all around the property, threw the bags in Lake Shelbyville, walked out of the woods. That's what they heard. So they said, though, and then they just abandoned the car along the highway to make it look like kept her purse in there and all that shit. Mom and dad did it. They think mom, dad, and junior all did it together.

They think she came over because she was seen without her son at about 6 o'clock. So it would have taken until about 630, which is when he's already off from work because he got off of work at 6 and then said he went home. But his girlfriend said she doesn't remember seeing him there there and then he shows up at work with wet hair freshly showered right at eight o'clock so he had you know an hour and a half an hour 15 minutes to take her out dismember and do all that shit and then go to work now the um my god they also and this is so weird and I only say this. I try not to be graphic or exploitative or whatever, but I say this because I don't know what this is and I don't know if this is a staging thing or something vicious that they're doing. And it's it's just part of the case. So I apologize to someone or anyone who finds this gross like I do.

who finds this gross like I do. So Dr. Travis Hinman, who's an expert in forensic pathology, he examined a portion of the pelvis of Karen Slover. He identified rocks, sand, and gravel in photographs of the body parts. According to him, I'll just use the terms

right from the court documents so I don't have to be weird. The vagina and rectum were facing away from the direction of the waves on the lake. That's only important because he found what he described as a large quantity of sand, rocks, and gravel within the vagina and terminal leading to the outside of the anus. The amount of sand, rocks, and gravel that came from the vagina alone formed a mass 10 by 10 by 2 centimeters. So it wasn't like the water washed it in. Exactly. Somebody jammed that in there.

She was facing away from the waves. So it wasn't like she was in the waves. And even then, how is that going to go in there? Yeah. We're watertight. Nothing gets in there. That's the other thing. He described the vagina as a closed compartment which does not allow materials even water to enter

otherwise women wouldn't be able to swim right they go swimming like oh jesus i'm i'm filling up and it would start coming out of their fucking eyes well what are you kidding me they'd be exclusive showers that's what yeah i mean i get that you know when you the rigor process and all that but it's not going to allow all this in. It's just not the way it works. He also found a tampon low in the vagina with sand and gravel and rocks very high in the vagina. So almost like a plug to keep the sand in there and the rocks. Based on the amount of sand, gravel and rocks found above the tampon, he opined that the materials found inside the vagina were not caused by the

lake's wave action. Even though the muscles of the body relax after death, the sand rocks and gravel were likely placed there because water does not easily enter the vagina and the tampon served as a substantial obstructive agent. So believable, but there's no evidence because of the dismemberment and in the water, there's no evidence that she was sexually assaulted before her death.

They don't have evidence that she wasn't, but they don't have evidence that she was either. So, yeah. So they also the defense tries to tries to break it down a little bit. They the Quintez woman who works with Karen at her job, who said that, you said that she was all freaked out after the phone call with Michael. Apparently, she said on her grand jury testimony, she didn't say that Karen was shaking when she got off the phone. But then later on, she said that she was shaking during the trial. So they're trying to break that down a little bit. They also said a detective was called

to Cub Foods about the shoplifter. And he said that there was nothing, nothing about Junior's behavior that you could think was was bad. They said that he he apprehended the shoplifter between 430 and five and Junior left the store at 630. So he showed up a little bit after eight so he's got about an hour to do what he needs to do if he did it so um now the store manager said he worked from 7 a.m till 6 30 p.m and he saw junior periodically throughout the day and was with him between five and six so he wasn't gone there but we know she was alive at six because she was eating ice cream and buying gum right so that doesn't matter really does it matter whether or not she was scared of a phone call you know what i mean yeah i mean we have the dog dna and we have a lot of other stuff gene schumann received karate lessons in his home

yeah from junior uh junior taught karate to schumann and his three children and a friend every monday and friday from 530 to 630 p.m. On September 27th, Junior did not arrive at the Schumann home until 610 p.m. So Schumann noticed nothing unusual about Junior and that he'd been late on other occasions. So he showed up for the karate lesson, though. So he's he's there. He was wearing blue jeans and a T-shirt, not his karate uniform, as he did about half the lessons. He instructed for about 30 minutes and then he left about 645.

So that's how that worked there. Now, the cop he talked to out on the road. This was he the cop was at a vehicular accident, as they put it. They put it the was that it was a Woolery officer. Woolery was inside her squad car doing paperwork when she saw Junior as he walked toward her car across the grassy median. He spoke. She spoke briefly with Junior before he walked back to his vehicle across the median. So he walked all the way over a median to talk to her. Got out of the car and crossed the street for this shit.

Yeah. He said he did. She said that she didn't see anyone with Junior. She recalled talking to an officer about it later on she said that she saw when she saw junior he did not have his karate uniform on but he was wearing a bulky flannel and uh she also testified that he would have had to have crossed six lanes of traffic if his car was all the way on the east side like it was and she said that in the past junior had never stopped to converse with her while she was on duty yeah so it's not like oh i gotta go say hi to her she's my buddy no he just explains the draft to say hello to say hello to someone i don't talk to that's interesting here so uh yeah uh trina her his girlfriend said she got off work at five

picked up her boys and went to the store, got home about 6.30. Now at trial, she says that he arrived at 7 p.m. Originally, she said she didn't remember him being home. She testified also that he had on his karate uniform when he arrived, which we know he didn't because he didn't wear it unless he put it on after the lesson. I like to teach. Dumb. Well, I teach karate, and then i feel so full of karate that i put a uniform on because it just feels right listen would you look this is how i sell

my my lessons i i gotta you gotta look the part you gotta dress for the job you want i certainly do by the way i look the part now um yeah she said he showered, changed, got something to eat, and then took off to go to Ronnie's to be a bouncer there. She said she didn't remember if he was already home or if he joined her because at the grand jury, she said, I don't remember any of that. I don't remember where he was and all this type of shit here. So he showed up at the bar, like we said, and we found out what all that was. His parents apparently took Colton to Kmart sometime between 5 p.m. and 5.30. She left a note on the door, and Karen knew how to get into the house if she arrived to pick up Colton while they were at the store. When she returned home at 6 p.m., Senior was already at the car lot.

So she said that she stayed home with Colton until 8, and then they went to the car lot. So she said that she arrived home with she stayed home with Colton until eight. And then they went to the car lot to see senior prior to going to the car lot. Jeanette called Karen's apartment, but nobody was home and they were going to go to McDonald's. But Colton fell asleep at the car lot. So they just went home instead. Now, senior, he would go feed his dogs and shit at the car lot and everything. Sometimes the car lot would be closed for a week because he didn't have time to be there. So he had a car lot that was like rarely open.

It's a very, yeah, it's a very weird thing to own a car lot and have it not really matter to you. He went to his car lot the next morning between 9 and 10 a.m., returned there until noon, and then returned to the lot at 4 or 5. Colton stayed there on Friday and Saturday night. That's how that went. He went daily to feed the dogs, like we said. Then they started cleaning right away. There's a lot of phone calls between the whole family here,

but that's normal with a family, too, to make a lot of phone calls. Now the dog, like like we said is introduced as a big thing and uh you know people are into that with the dna and everything it's fascinating i'm it's it's fucking fascinating um another person here illinois state police crime scene investigators they testified about finding blood and dark colored debris on the finley bridge um they believe parts of the dismembered body were dumped from the bridge. He said the body looked like it may have been the he said the debris looked like it may have been a burnt seat cushion material and also testified that they saw cinders around the edge of the bridge rail,

but did not collect the cinders as possible evidence for some reason. but did not collect the cinders as possible evidence for some reason. And also, prosecutors contend cinders found embedded in Karen Slover's body match cinders found at the car lot. So there's a lot here going on. Let's see here. This is fucking crazy. They try to argue the concrete stuff based on different color, but the scientists say the dampness would make up for that.

Yeah, there's a lot going on here at issue during the one testimony was a small amount of alcohol found in Karen's system during the autopsy. But the the medical examiner testified that he believes the alcohol came from her inhaler. She has an inhaler for asthma. And apparently, I don't know, back then, I guess, it would say you have a little bit of alcohol in your system, like a trace. It wasn't like a.04 or anything. It was like a trace. So they said that it's possible that she might have had a sip of an alcoholic beverage also. He can't rule that out.

But that amount could come from an inhaler also. So, yeah, there was that. Now they bring in all the abuse claims. Holy shit. That's a lot. The Slover attorneys object repeatedly to testimony about Michael Slover Jr.'s abusive acts. and each time the judge instructs the jury that the evidence will be given was to be limited to Michael Slover Jr. when it was considered the case in total, blah, blah, blah, special jury instruction.

You can talk about this bad shit, but you can only think about it in a certain way, jury people. So a prosecution witness who would have testified about a June 91 incident with Michael Slover Jr. doesn't get to take the stand. It's an ex-girlfriend of his who is set to testify that he threatened her at a property adjacent to the parking lot. And they wouldn't let her be called. Threatened her life, I guess. She's not allowed to testify here. And also another person not allowed to testify is a friend of his who would have testified about a conversation, which he allegedly had with Michael Slover Jr. about how to commit the perfect crime. Oh, my God.

Prosecutors said that his description had an had, quote, uncanny similarities to how Karen Slover died. Right. But defense attorney said the testimony would be highly prejudicial highly prejudicial because he taught yeah that's pretty prejudicial to him like of course it is yeah your honor i cannot show evidence that shows my client is clearly guilty i mean that dna evidence is highly prejudicial right they're gonna take that shit seriously oh my god that's job as as a uh meat packer is going to be very uh detrimental to my case about this body found in the meat packing company holy shit that's fucking hilarious they also said the conversation occurred uh

before her karen and michael slover. met. So it doesn't matter. It doesn't, it still has a plan. Now, um, like I said, he brings his girlfriend in to sort of give him an alibi, but it wasn't the same alibi she gave to the grand jury.

So it's a little less here. Um, they said that they bring in the cleanup of the, of the car lot. That's a big deal. One employee here is a former employee that worked there for two years. He said the lot was normally unorganized and messy. However, the week after Karen was murdered,

he observed senior near a fairly large fire, uh, either in the burn barrel or near it. Um, he said he had never seen senior burn anything on the property before that time. Not a guy that burns a lot of shit that day burning a lot of shit later that same day he came into the into a place to collect rent from this guy they said he was acting nervous

sweating and looking over his shoulder they said they normally knew him to be very calm and laid back they also said it was unreasonably hot that day so sweating might have came from that and he's he's kind of a big fat guy also he had a fire uh and that'll make you sweat yeah uh the another guy testified too that had a business right by there that the lot was unkempt uh overrun with old cars and overgrown weeds and the weekend after the death he saw junior with a weed eater along the south fence row uh cutting down weeds and doing all sorts of property maintenance and he said he's never ever seen junior do any kind of maintenance on the lot ever and he's always there so then they bring in all the car all the uh uh car sightings uh one that we didn't mention was a guy named leo myers just after five saw a blonde haired girl pull up uh to the left of his car and the car's

license plate was CAD 7, and the blonde was described as petite, attractive, and wearing sunglasses. Okay. Okay. He also observed a passenger in the car, whom he described as being a young man with brown hair that touched his shoulders. Yeah. Okay.

Now, the passenger also had acne around his chin and wore a tan short-sleeved sweater. Jesus, this is very specific. Look at this guy. Fuck, man. Stared at him. Is that a light just staring? He last saw the car on the north end of the town near Mound Road. Now, the following week, he thought he saw the younger man with long hair in the Herald

and Review parking lot talking to another heavyset man. I don't know what significance that has. At about 5.20 or 5.25, James Huff stated he was passed by a speeding car with CAD-7 license plate. The last time this guy saw the car was traveling north, heading just south of Cerro Gordo. the car was traveling north, heading just south of Cerro Gordo. At the same time, a school bus driver named Vicky Gagnon saw a car with the CAD-7 license plate traveling at a high rate of speed north on Route 105 as well. So this is fucking, this car is getting all over the place. It really is.

Between 5.30 and 6.30, several people saw Karen and or her car in Cerro Gordo, as we know. We talked about the ice cream cone and the gum and everything like that. And then the chase. Between 8 and 8.20, the Hausch family saw two cars traveling west at a high rate of speed. The second car had a license plate of CAD-7. at a high rate of speed. The second car had a license plate of CAD-7. They later saw the CAD-7 car near the Clinton exit on the right-hand side of the shoulder of Interstate 72

with the driver and passenger side doors open and the dome light on. A couple of the Houshes saw a man, six foot to six foot three, at the side of the car walking toward the trunk. He had a white mark on the side of his face. They also saw someone laying down in the front seat of the car with his or her legs sticking outside the driver's door.

So, uh, shortly before driving, keep driving. See ya. Mind in my own business. That looks like a murder. That's the song on the radio.

I got shit to do. I got shit to do. I got shit to do. Gotta put the kids to bed tonight. Yeah. No time for this shit. Gonna have to stick around and talk to police officers. I don't think so. Treating it like Rust rusty in Christmas vacation.

I got to put the hogs out. Oh, Jesus Christ. Got homework to do. Got to pay those bills. The fuck out of here. It was David Swan was the guy's name. Maybe that's the D and the S in CADS. I've been sitting here for an hour, two hours and 15 minutes and 48 seconds trying to figure out what the fuck.

Cock ass David Swan 7. Cock ass David Swan 7. minutes and 48 seconds trying to figure out what the fuck ass david swan seven cock ass david swan seven so uh uh yeah so all these people are seeing the cars um uh the bumper to bumper people another person saw bumper to bumper high rate of speed as we just that was multiple people not just the one person here um another uh. And people see sometimes they see her by herself and sometimes they see her with somebody in the car as well, which is weird. Another person said they saw her said she tends to read license plates and notice that plate. Jesus Christ, man. Now, in the closing argument. Annoyed her, James.

What is that? God damn it. That fucking plate. Now, the closing argument, the defense attorney said, quote, even when you add up all these things, it doesn't equal first degree murder. They didn't. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of, quote, evidence. Yeah, sure. Why not?

But I mean, come on. Come on, guys. What's evidence, really, in a case like this? It's really all just hearsay and bullshit and who knows what's going on, right? So the verdict comes in, and this is Jeanette, Michael Sr., Michael Jr., all three of them wind up. The whole family here. Mary is not charged with anything, the sister. She's still got Colton, but more on that in a moment.

Mary is not charged with anything. The sister, she's still got Colton, but more on that in a moment. And she's charged of nothing except for in the court of public. People think she's a twat, right? That's the cancer. Eat the face off. All that kind of shit. Kind of an asshole.

And this is. Yeah, I would say so. And this is, by the way, this is 2002 that the fucking verdict finally comes. Six years. The trial didn't start till then. I mean, it took that long. They didn't get a grand jury until 1998. It kept going on and on. So they find everybody guilty of murder in the first degree.

All of you. Sentencing comes around. They sit the whole family down. It's a nice family moment when you can be sentenced. We rarely get it where you're sentenced with your mom and dad together you know it's nice it's it's it's quaint honestly we had that one where the uh parents uh and the jersey you're right but they had a separate trial right uh no because their sentencing was they were sitting next to each other together yeah i think that's the only time that's the only time i've ever seen it but we're back um so uh they say you

family may fuck off you fam may fuck off all of you uh they are sentenced to each for 60 years to 60 years in prison for murder my god and then both the slover men are sentenced to an additional five years each for concealing a homicide so 60 for jeanette 65 each for the boys now uh 2003 mary and colton here mary's watching colton um she ends up losing custody of Colton in 2003 after she was declared an unfit parent. Why? Because she was involved. She is found legally to be involved in the concealment of Karen Slover's death. She was there.

They never charged her with anything, but they say she know about it and concealed it. So didn't tell anybody about it. sealed it okay so didn't tell anybody about it so uh the judge here scott b diamond also ruled there was insufficient evidence to support prosecutors uh uh contention that slover was unfit because she'd been complicit in the murder but it was enough to take the kid away they take colton and put him in state guardianship here for a minute he ends up though he ends up though being taken in by larry and donna he, who were excited as all get out to get. They said they're so excited they feel like little kids. They can't wait to get Colton and try to help him and all this sort of shit.

They're good people. They seem like those Hearns. So, yeah, 2005, they're trying to link Mary Slover to this bad. They want Mary Slover. Yeah. They genetically test a cat hair. Don't have pets, motherfuckers. Don't have pets if you want to murder people.

And of course that bitch has cats. Of course she does, Mary. They test that out. Mary Slover, obviously her brother had been there. They find they could not reach a conclusion with the pet hair, basically. Damn it. Mary Slover formerly lived in Seattle and had the cat hair. An animal DNA expert compared the hair with the hair taken from the vehicle she was driving,

and they haven't found, they couldn't get a conclusive match on that. Damn it. We don't know about Kat, how that works. And then inconclusive that she killed anybody or had anything to do with it. But we do know absolutely unequivocally Mary's a twat that we do know. Mary seems like a real twat. She wanted a cancer to eat a woman's face off. What a bitch.

What an asshole. So it's a grim Mary. She's a grim Mary. She's a grim Mary. She is, though. So the attorney represented Mary during the custody hearing here. He maintains that the cat hair evidence was meaningless, even if it did match. He said Colton played with Mary Slover's cats and could have transferred the hair to his mother, which is true. Sure.

Which is true. You got to have that. That's a fact uh now a cousin to them and a supporter kelly crinko with no fucking vowels except for an o c r n k o no the fuck out of here with that pick a fucking vowel and stick it in there people i don't give a shit which one but you need one uh that's a cousin and a supporter of Mary questioned what the cat hair evidence means now. They said, quote, they were going to use it to fit their story. My question is, are they on the lookout now for this cat owner?

Okay. They also said that it was complicated by the fact that the authorities were not able to take the hair directly from Mary's two cats because they were dead. So this had to be like cat hair they found in the corners of her house that she didn't vacuum well enough. So now they argued that Mary Slover conspired to abduct Colton from Karen, a plot that culminated with Karen's murder and the adoption of the boy by Mary. So that's the angle they're going to take. She said she adopted the boy in order to do what was best for her nephew.

Now, the Slovers appeal on all sorts of shit. They're challenging the canine DNA evidence. They're saying that they saw too many autopsy photos and all sorts of shit like that. They did say that the admission of certain statements by the defendants was an error, but ruled that the error did not rise to the level of denying them a right to a fair trial. So 2003 is the whole Colton thing went on. They the judge rules that Mary Slover or Carol Reynolds, it was a court court appointed special advocate, Carol Reynolds. She said that Mary Slover or Carol Reynolds, it was a court appointed special advocate, Carol Reynolds. She said that Mary Slover is, quote, depraved and unfit.

OK, but also said that she should continue to have supervised visits with Colton because it'd be better for the kid, which I mean, if she's depraved and unfit, Jesus Christ. Yeah. The written orders, which said that statements that have been made, Colton must be safeguarded from anyone who believes his father and paternal grandparents might be innocent. That's what they said. Yeah. Now, the Krinkos, the cousins who wanted to take custody, he said that they know. The judge said, quote, the Krinkos have become a trojan stalking horse for the slovers they too believe the slovers did not commit the murder and that mary slover was not involved in the concealment of the homicide they would continue to feed the minor cult and lies and untruths and no doubt cut off visitation with the herns contrary to their assertion which the

court uh could then not could not then rectify he said in the best interest of the minor he'd be raised by the hearns so that he'll know the truth of his background yeah and also uh that's the closest blood to him that's who he should go to yeah that's not gonna go to some cousins of your cousins or an aunt fuck you murderers cousins no fuck no uh No, no. Colton went to live with the Hearns. The workers who told the Krinkos and Mary, the DCFS, what is that? Some sort of child services thing, told the Krinkos and Mary Slover that Colton packed away all cards, letters, and toys that they all gave him because he was convinced the Hearns would confiscate the items and not let him have them. Because they've convinced him that they're terrible people. The Slovers have Slovers of convincing that you're going to go to these terrible people. Yeah.

The herds, though, they said they're giddy as a couple of kids about having Colton. It's great. They said that they Colton appears to be making a healthy adjustment to the new situation. to the new situation. And he says, quote, Mary says, she says that he looked like he, she's trying to say the kid looked like he was well adjusted to the situation,

but I know better. Okay. She said, I know him well enough to know he's trying to be strong and not show his emotions. He told me before he wouldn't ever let anyone see him cry, but that just makes me worry about him more.

The happier he looks, the more I'm worried about him. Now, 2008, the Illinois Innocence Project takes up the Slovers case. Stop that. Yeah, I don't know what the... That's a waste of time of people who are actually... What did they find? Who are actually... Nothing.

The petition alleges that David Swan, who was the boyfriend, misled the jury when he described his car. The one she was last seen driving as having clear rather than tinted windows. I read 30 pages on fucking tinted fucking windows and whether the car had tinted windows and whether this person saw it had tinted windows. And when you saw it, did it have tinted windows? Was it at night? Did they look tinted? Could you see inside? Was the dome light on?

Dude, it's so much tint talk. If I was a lawyer, I'd fucking hang myself in a courtroom if I had to talk about tinted windows for a fucking day and a half. Or you'd stroke your cock about it because that's what's going to get these fucking nut jobs out of prison. Depends on which side of the aisle that that tint lies that's true and chicago illinois you can't really have tinted windows there right how dark is tint and does it even fucking look tinted does it matter i mean yeah that's that's what i mean so um jesus christ mark camper a student in the wrongful convictions class during the 2005 spring semester, obtained a evidence from S&K Pontiac and GMC in Springfield that the car in question had factory tinted windows. OK, so it's barely tinted. It's barely tinted. And if you ask a guy, do you have tinted windows? And he didn't have tints put in.

tinted windows and he didn't have tints put in and you say no no right if you have every car i've ever had as factory tinted windows and if you say do you have tints i'd say no no because i didn't do anything to it i bought it like this it's just the way it is yep and that's basically what they're trying to say here um that he testified against that um so uh the court filing mentioned an untested human hair found at the scene as well as a fingerprint near a spot of the victim's blood at Finley Bridge and ordered a hearing to potentially new to get potentially new evidence in the case. So they're saying that you can add get new evidence here. The prosecutor said that they he doesn't understand why the Illinois Innocence Project is involved in this now. And it's the University of Illinois at Springfield that does that. He doesn't understand why the Illinois Innocence Project is involved in this now. And it's the University of Illinois at Springfield that does that.

That's why. It's kids that think that they can do something and change the world and we can find something that exonerates somebody. Sometimes they do, though. Yeah, I get it. A lot of times. But this is the wrong tree. There's no reason to look into this. You're barking up the wrong tree, man. It's just a lot.

Maybe Innocence Project should find out if Mary isn't a twat. Do that for me. Yeah, let's find out. Because I'm convinced. Mary is innocent of twatdom, we found. And now we shall go from there. Yeah. In 2014, they won a ruling allowing DNA testing on certain fingerprint evidence, but that didn't go anywhere.

And that ended up dying on the vine. So where are they now? Jeanette is 72, or 73 now, resides in the Logan Correctional Center. Parole date of 2029, and projected discharge of 2032. Yeah, and she has

blonde hair now for some reason. And Michael Slover has in a medium security Pontiac Correctional Center. This is senior. He, 2032 is his parole date and a potential discharge of 2035. Now, Mike Jr. is 50 and incarcerated at the Illinois River Correctional Center. Parole date of 2031, Projected discharge of 2034. He's so young still. Yeah, he's still young.

He's going to get out and be alive and shit. Now, Colton is in his late 20s, obviously, today. He was born in 93. Uses a different name now because of this, because this has been covered on TV back in the day and all that. Fucking ruined his life. Apparently, he works in the home improvement industry as a flooring remodeler. Oh, God. It's so hard, Colton.

It's so hard. Hang in there, buddy. You can charge a lot of money, though. Good for you, Colton. Yeah. So, yeah, that poor kid. Please, if anybody finds him, do not bother that poor fucking kid. Jesus Christ.

I just feel so bad for him. His mother's dead in the most horrible fucking way possible. And then he finds out his father, grandparents, aunt, everybody was in on it. Not only that, but then they lied to him about it for years. How fucking just, I mean, how could you trust anybody? Poor guy, man. The whole worst part of it is that she's dead because they wanted him. Yeah. That's the whole him yeah that's the other

thing yeah that's it too man do that poor kid i mean i really hope i really hope they got i hope he got counseling yeah i really hope he got some good counseling and i don't even know i don't even know what the fuck man i feel so bad for that kid that's terrible that's one of the yeah it's as bad as any kid you've ever felt bad for on the show where you're like jesus anyone that wasn't like dead or molested or something obviously you know whatever any live uh any live child this is the most that's maybe worse this way because it is gotta live with this every goddamn day so we really hope he's doing well we really do i mean i hope that's well and i hope the i hope the herns are still alive too because they seem like nice people yeah his grandparents karen's parents so giddy like a

couple of kids that's adorable kids that's isn't it cute yeah that's nice stuff so um that everybody is uh mount zion illinois and a fucking crazy story i have to say in terms of brutality in terms of how it's solved with dog dna like it's just a crazy ass case man that marries a single woman you know that right there's no way that woman's married to somebody yeah yeah i don't think i don't think she was well when they moved yeah to uh was it hornbeak or whatever the fuck it was tennessee it was michael jr mary and colton moved so yeah seems like probably not she's probably not with anybody or married to anybody so well her last name is the last lover still yeah yeah who knows if she was kept at any way a single

woman nobody's putting up with that woman a lot of cats that way so no listen to her she's terrible fucking murder accomplice jesus christ if you enjoy that i hate her right now i do i feel terrible but in another way. No, she sucks. No, she sucks. She's a piece of shit. She's like shit Karen. She's not even grim Karen. She's shit Mary.

Ah, shit Mary. That's what she is. Ah, shit Mary. How you doing there, shit Mary? Don't be a shit Mary, everybody. Wouldn't it be hilarious? Never mind. That's me.

Shit, Mary. So if you enjoyed that show, tell the world about it. Get on Apple Podcasts. Give us five stars. Doesn't matter what you say. Say something, though, and it helps drive us up the charts. We don't know why. It just does.

We don't run Apple. The fuck do we know? But I do know that Apple does not accept it if you write shit, Mary, as your review. Don't write shit, Mary. No no they won't take curses probably do some asterisks in there and then mary and that's fine shit mary it is we need a shit mary t-shirt now head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything small town murder and crime and sports related and especially coming up on may the 6th it's a thursday night but we'll have it so it's available all weekend all weekend everybody can get it all your people overseas and everything like that you'll have to watch it crime in sports virtual

live show and crime and sports live shows are i mean small town murder live shows are great but crime and sports live shows are just it's's not the same. There's no, like, big murder thing. So, you know, you have to be kind of, it's a comedy show, and you have to be down for a minute for a couple of somber moments. Not for crime and sports. No. You just make fun of an asshole for two and a half hours, or at a live show it'll be an hour and a half. But either way, wow, is it fun. I hope Shit Mary played some sort of like a cornhole professional tournament.

You know, Shit Mary, the cornhole champion. So get your tickets there. They'll go on sale this week. We're not sure exactly when in the next couple days. Keep checking. And another good place to check to see when things are on sale is on social media. We are at Murder Small on Facebook or on Twitter, at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram and also uh at crime and sports on twitter and facebook as well if you

want to follow that for those tickets it'll be on instagram as well get those tickets i'm telling you we're gonna that's gonna be fun we're not i'm really excited about it i really that's gonna be we're blowing that shit out because that's uh we're not gonna have another virtual live crime and sports it's never gonna happen again i'll tell you i'll guarantee you that right now so we're going to really leave it all on the table for you guys and uh on the on the floor on the court right all over shit mary it's happening and lately it's been asked a lot uh about vile human beings and that podcast shall be started fairly fairly shortly look we've got we got a lot of things we're dealing with and a lot of emails that we send about other things as well and there's another thing coming to our hardest

to get through this have to do one thing first before we get to that business-wise and it's something that involves a whole bunch of pieces being in a place so don't worry good stuff coming soon for everybody it's it's all to give you guys good content that's one thing so trying to do all of that much as we can as often as we can and absolutely the main part of it is as best as we can because we want that's the shit man putting out a shit product is no we're not about that that's a shit mary so patreon.com speaking of a good product patreon is the most worth it five bucks you're going to spend for anything show related for any show. We really bring it on those Patreons and you get access to both Small Town Murder and Crime and Sports Patreon. And like Crime and Sports, the last Patreon we did was about the Hotel Cecil documentary and the missing Lisa Lam.

It had nothing to do with sports. So these bonus episodes are more freewheel and we can kind of do what we want this week. And also the prisoner dating game was last week. So you missed that this week over at Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. You can get on for the crime and sports show. It'll be Marv Albert, the sportscaster forever who

had a just a weird sex scandal that was super creepy, resulted in criminal charges and everything else. If it was just a sex scandal, who cares? But it was criminal. So it falls under our jurisdiction. We're going to talk about that. And then for the small town murder one, we're going to talk about the Netflix documentary about the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez.

And we'll get we'll get all sorts into that, man. I've been wanting to talk about him for a long time. So you can get that and everything else at Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And that will make you a producer, making you eligible for a shout out. Not only eligible, you will have a shout out. Jimmy will mispronounce your name while trying to pronounce it perfectly. So you can do all that at Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And on top of that, if you just want to be a good person, have great karma and just do something nice and also be a producer.

Hear your name shouted out wrongly. You can do that as well over at PayPal using our email address. Crime and sports at gmail.com. That said, Jimmy, please hit me with the list of people who would never leave my car running on the side of the road and dismember me into many pieces and put me in a pond right now. This week's executive producers are Danielle Marr, Mara Wolf, Mara. Mara? Is that Mara? I don't know, James.

Cameron Kuschwara's wife, Wendy, had a birthday this week. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Wendy. Jordan Bennett, Daniel Levy. I want Levy. Levy. It's a Levy, right? Yeah.

It could be Levy or Levy, depending. I want that to be Eugene's boy, but it's probably not. Carolyn Osborne, Francisco Ariza, Betty Murphy, Matthew Richards, and Remington Richards, and also Irene Cruz. Thank you guys so, so much. Thank you. You're incredible. And Remington's a cool name.

It really is. It's pretty badass. I like that. Other producers this week are luke rogers wrestling's donnie remember donnie you know donnie donnie sends us all kinds of wrestling shit he's the shit man yeah his girlfriend i believe emily uh maybe just maybe just a friend uh maybe maybe he wants it i don't know she got a new job though congrats emily congrats emily right uh emilyn brumley donated both ways. Thank you so much.

Wow, thank you. Matthew Henry also. Maria Rasper. Annabelle Wolfe. Peyton Meadows. Michelle Miller. I think that's the Michelle Miller that lives in northern Arizona that drives all over the place. I think it is.

Thank you. I think so. Otherwise, it could be another Michelle Miller. Otherwise, thank Michelle Miller. Either way, we thank you, Michelle Miller. Also, Thomas Smith. Alex Ortiz. Nicholas Ryard. Carl Kirshner, Gary Howard, Jacob Harper,

TJ Mack, Don Finch had a birthday. Happy birthday, Don. Amanda Knight, Christine Tate, John Miller, Hunter Erickson had a birthday. Happy birthday. Surfing pioneer, Duke Peokuninu, Moko Hulikola Kahanamuka. Awesome. That's all wrong. It's all wrong. Huli Hala Kolamuka.

Thank you. Erwin Lopez, Morris Buttermaker, who I believe is in a movie, Morris Buttermaker. I think it's a reference to that. I don't know. Also, Rabbi Shmulalovich. Of course. Shmulalovich? Oh, no. Also, Rabbi Shmulevich. Of course. Shmulevich? Oh, thank you.

Susanna Platt, Todd Cochran, Daphne Jean Baptiste, Corey and Kelly Fowler, Krista Fleischer, Beth Charlton had a birthday. Happy birthday. Jen Excel from Discord. Evidently, Discord is a thing. And a lot of people talk about us over there. I don't know how to get on it or what it is. I don't know if it's discord.com. I don't know.

There's a thing called Discord, and there's conversation about it. So thank you all over there for doing that. We love you. Sherry Smith, Janice Hill, Elizabeth Thompson, Annie Goulihy. Goulihy. Nice. Well done. Oh, that's the overboard reference right there.

Annie Goulihy. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's her name. My last name is Goulihy. Goulihy. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's, yeah. My last name is Goulihy. Goulihy. Roy. Barbara Flick. Jessica Massary.

Massary. Robert fucking Patrick. Jonathan Gorostieta. Gorostieta. Babe. Sarah Surridge. She put umlauts over all her vowels. That's lovely.

TJ Bartlett in a triple-axle dump truck. He drives a triple-axle, James. Jesus Christ. Michelle Crotty, Scissors to SARS. Jennifer Visconti, Ashley Veo, Michael DeGrief, Marshall Garreault, Sarah Young, Sarah Ficht, Jesus, Alyssa Carisse, Emmelyn Brumley, I said that, Jennifer Morales, Mike Burton, Gregory Beamer, Alexis Nobis, Adam Yeager, Corey Murdoch, Simon Brown, Dakota Moore, RDC, Jen Nury, Christian Land,

Andre Russell, Stephanie Griggs, Matthew Franklin, Jimmy Marks III, what? I don't know what that is, Kent Hull, David Klinger, Cortland Wise, Juliet with no last name, Nicole Schroeder, Kim Boyd, Aaron Gilmore, Jessica Gandy, Glenn Small, Stephanie Mueller, Cole Lynch, Kehlani Segovia, Marlon Bowen, Veronicaips kayla hilliard evelyn dixon jacqueline gable gabole gabole emily haynes am amanda irwin gabby rockhill jeff g uh liam liam coker cocker oh boy david newman nope that's did new what why is that did that's a fuck somebody with the last name of newman because my computer decided to change their first name to Did. No way there's somebody. Thanks, Did Newman. Maybe it's Did. I don't know.

Died Newman. Raul Montano, Alexis Sermier, Susan Hammond, Angela Joyner, Ashley Schmidt, Mike Hawk-Hertz. Good for you, sir. You got it for you. Very nice. Congratulations. Darlene Fitzgerald, Ashley D. Will, Tom Persinger, Sarah Torrance, Sarah Hobson, Carolyn Polosky, Sarah Carson, Dana with no last name, T.C. Palmater, Gloria Davidson, Cassie Jo, Casey, maybe Jo, Ann Schmidt, Stuart Weissman, Lauren Wolfe, Jessica Schwind, Adam Wyatt, Matt Bichard, Jessica Cordes, Laura Nolan, oh boy, oh boy, Kane Alang, Stephanie Hillman, Gabriel with no last name, Julia, Julie, Rye

Juergens, got all that Juergens money, Kate with no last name, Courtney Drake, Arlene Dameron, Dameron, Dameron. Dameron? Dameron. Tiffany Hanson. Tiffany Hanson. Elizabeth Lindloff. Lindloff. Megan Hanlon. Laura with no last name.

David Murray. Jill Reiniger. Reneger. Oh, boy. Andrew Lamper. Taylor Smith. Smith. Smith?

What? You just mispronounced Smith. That's great. That's a new low, Jimmy. Mary Vaughn. Faye Glover, Ted Cervantes, Jennifer Jeffener. Jeffener. Boy, oh boy. Reeves, Jennifer Reeves, Peggy with no last name, Blake Adams, Colin Adams,

Vinyal Pacheco, River Moore, Brooke Harrison, Tatum Kendall, Robert Smith, Brianna Simon, Craig Meyer, Rebecca Branca, Awatif Adel Ismail Decker, Connor with no last name, Carla Nielsen, Heidi Holland, Susie White, Rick Samsquanch, Chris Tracy, Crystal Kriger, Randy Cloutis, Reefer Doctor, Mandy Frank, Maria Lugo, Miranda Armstrong, Jarrett Carroll, Jeremy with no last name, Zane053. What happened? You're cooking, man.

You're cooking. I'm going. Ben Levesque, Amanda Wilson, Heather Bennett, Carly Bird Irwin, D Schaefer06, Melissa Rose, Carly Bird Irwin, D Schaefer 06, Melissa Rose, Dwayne Coder, Jennifer Dabrowski, Cody Tyree, Mike and Jess Miller, John Cunningham, Stephanie Shady, Mish Moore, Jennifer Williams, Anne-Marie Concha, Cherie Gregory, Jesse Blue, Dustin Motley, Kelly Shanklin, God damn it, Francisco Ariza, Hollywood No Last Name, Michael Sheffield, Gabe Gonzalez, Cynthia Person, Lacey Cowgill, cows don't have gills, Jade McCracken, Amy Smart, Michelle Alvarez, Michelle Brown also, Tyler Rutherford, Brian Chatfield, Brenna Thornley, Jen Huber, Kelly Anderson, Ruth Dunlap, Bill Bowes, Justin S., Jamie Monroe, Kenneth Clay, Nikki Woods, Jennifer Schrader, Alexandra Blue Wilson, Tabitha, nope, that's Talitha, Krill, Megan Butler, Captain Awesome, Heather Crow, Chris with no last name, Jay Bell, Brianna Hagberg,

Layla Carlisle, Belle Gill, Katie McBroom, Jessica Smith, Catherine Payne, Victoria Doyle, Belle Gill, Katie McBroom, Jessica Smith, Catherine Payne, Victoria Doyle, Amelia Simmons, Amanda Laboud, Heather Lake, John Penrod Jr., Marissa with no last name, Melissa Hotstinski, Justin Peterson, Brandy Barton. What the fuck? That was too easy and I ruined it. Jennifer Costa, Marlissa Nicholson, Marlissa, Susan Scugard, Aris Van Mayhem,

Mayhem, Jesus, Emily Dillon, Krista Lagace, Lagasse, Lagace, I don't know, Susie Pike,

Susan McFarland, DPG, Ashton Sova, Dan with no last name, Griffin Murphy, Kayla McCann, Andy Lopez, Erica Nava, John Schroeder, Schroeder, Sarah King, Griffin Murphy, Kayla McCann, Andy Lopez, Erica Nava, John Schroeder, Sarah

King, Bonnie Foster, L. Allen Mason, Jay Lizotte, Ashley Levin, Dylan Mhozy, David Durden, James Robinson, Jesse with no last name, Patrick Cardoza, Tyler Edwards, Haley Davis, Renee Lighthall, light, light hall. Yes. Angela Davis, Jody Pell, Jenny with no last name, Daniela Refugio, Nicole Freeman and Kevin Dowdy, Andrew Helvey, Jesus, Jack and nope, that's Zach. Zach Lebsack. Jack and Lebsack.

Thanks, Jack. And keep on jacking, pal. Eric Golby. Josh Rose. Ross. Carl Isaacson. E. Walanka. Megan Megan.

Ebony. Ebony. Ebony Ingram. Jason Molnar. Christine Glomvowski. I did. I'm an asshole. Melanie Moran. Michael Warwick melt megan bullock uh matt foster

josh lindsey caleb brian jones uh the diamond diamond what is that uh dynamics hey the diamond x we got it katie light alia uh with no last name courtney courtney Luke Salomon, Patty Scott, Megan with no last name, Brooke Bones, Charles Chandler, Sean Pfeiffer, Christine Tack, Sean Patrick, nope, that's Kirk Patrick, Zachary Brinkerhoff, Courtney Tittle, Jarrett with no last name,

Jenny Groff, Samantha Fitzgibbon, Jason, oh boy, Kaver, Culver, Rabuias, Coleman Six, Turtle Run, Kane Stripe, Carolyn gibbon jason cora oh boy caver culver rabuius coleman six turtle run cane uh stripe carolyn pepler alexis from hospitality podcast hayley and brenton plant kevin wright and nathan allridge and brett stetson from that stetson fortune jesus christ you guys are amazing thank you so much with all your hat money thank Thank you, everyone, so much. Seriously, from the bottom of our dead, cold,

shriveled-up little hearts, we cannot thank you. You make the world go round for us, and just thank you for everything you do for us. We try to hustle as best we can for you and make it all worth it, because we just feel so thankful that we we want to make sure that you're happy basically yeah i mean i know a lot of people uh because we're comedians and every comic has a fucking podcast and there are thousands of them that you can choose from and i feel like a flight attendant right now but

thank you for choosing us yeah and there's only four things to choose from there. Right. Here, there's literally a million that you're choosing us, so thank you. We appreciate that. You didn't just choose the cheapest one. A million, and they're all free. So how easy is that to pick something? And you chose us, and you've helped us build something that we can't do without you.

And without you guys, we are one of the other millions of podcasts that people don't hear. Nobody gives a shit about. And we're really thankful that you give a shit about us. And not just us, but this show. Obviously this show. And the things that we make. And you're the reason we do it. So thank you.

And what if the people wanted to give a shit about you, Jimmy? How could they find you? You can give a shit about me at Wisman Sucks. W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter and Instagram unless your name is Shit Mary. Then stay the fuck away. No Shit Mary. I don't want to hear from you, Mary.

Nope. Not at all. What about you? I'm over. I'm at Jimmy P is funny. You know how to Google search people, everyone, don't you? I think so. Do that. Find us. Keep following. Keep listening every week. Listen to Crime and Sports on Tuesdays. Damn it.

Listen to PSA Hate This Movie because I have to keep watching fucking Twilight. Do all these goddamn things and keep coming back every single week because you know we'll be. I know I'll be back because until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.