Small Town Murder - #220 - If The Ring Doesn't Fit...? - Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Episode Date: April 21, 2021

This week, in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, just when we think a story is going one way, it takes a complete left turn, and ends up in a completely different direction. But is that even the right direction? Is clear the no evidence, or an absolutely amazing piece of evidence? Nothing is as it seems, here, except that someone brutally murdered a young woman, who just trying to start het life over. A crazy & perplexing tale! Along the way, we find out that men may stink after a long Kentucky motorcycle ride, that you might want to hang on to very important murder evidence for more than a few days, and that rings are seemingly less unique than some may think!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, a wild and horrific night has two completely different versions of what happened to a young

woman who ends up dead in vicious circumstances. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you everybody so much for joining us this week we are as usual jack to be here sure um which sounds strange because we're we're so excited about death but we're not that's not what it is no we're happy to be here with all of you and uh hearing a story bring it together there you go and uh try to make it a little less horrible that's what we're all gonna do here so let's do this uh thank you once again everybody for your reviews this week of course that purple icon on apple podcasts we don't know why that matters it's just a thing

it just does for some reason so that said please do that five stars if you can it helps us out a lot that's your part much yeah that's that's we're doing our part. Yeah, we don't know why it helps. It's your turn. But yeah, there you go. Get to work. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. Get tickets to the Crime and Sports virtual live show coming up on May 6th. I can't wait. I can't wait either.

Available... It's two fucking weeks away. That's wild. I'm jacked for that. Any of those shows are crazy. And the Crime and Sports are extra crazy because it's always someone who's famous. So there's just lots of pictures of them doing something dumb. Usually, whereas it's a new live show format in terms of the place.

It's being it's going to be great. You got a new studio for it. It's made just for that. Oh, it's all it's for. That's all it's for. So do that. Shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Get your tickets to that and get your tickets to.

I know they're going up again. We're updating the websites for all of the rescheduled shows. Right. And so we're excited about that. Actual live shows. Yes. Not virtual. Actual.

Or we're going somewhere and hopefully you'll be there, too. And keep in mind, if you don't see something up there, we are doing our best to reschedule it. And a couple are getting moved. We're not sure which ones yet altogether. Think about this. Two years basically. A year and a half or so of shows are cancelled for

everybody. Not just us. That means everybody's trying to cram a year and a half sort the stuff into one year and everybody on the face of the earth. All the candy on Halloween is in one bucket. Yes. That's a good way to put it. The Foo Fighters are trying to get some of that candy from us, too. They're going to get more than us.

We're not playing in the same place as the Foo Fighters. You know what I mean, though. I'm saying bigger acts than us are definitely taking Tootsie Rolls. Maybe like Snoop Dogg here and there when he pops up. Tech N9ne's certainly going to be competing with us. We're going to share the stage. Jelly Roll, watch out. We're taking some of those venues.

That's what I'm saying, yeah. Possibly. I think Skid Row might be following us one of these nights. Watch out, rat! Let's do it. Oh, no, it's rat. Round and round it is. So get your tickets to that.

Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, Patreon. My goodness. If you didn't get Patreon this last weekend, you missed some great episodes. But if you sign up, you'll get them now. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And we did reviews of jails and prisons that people left, which is pretty hilarious. Not just the reviews of the jail, people in the neighborhood.

Oh, God, everything. People going to the jail, working at the jail, being at the jail. Just from perspective of everybody hating jail. It's wild. It's wild. It's great. That and Crime and Sports, the one thing which you'll also get access to, was we did kind of our favorite sports movies, and we made fun of a lot of old crappy movies.

So that was fun, too. Check that out. That is patreon.com slash crimeandsports. And you're a producer, so Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show, and he'll try, but he'll mess it up. So there's that. Do that. Also, if you just want to be a good person yeah have good karma that is also possible over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com right quickly the disclaimer yes like we said this is a comedy show we're comedians obviously you know we're trying

yeah so uh entertainment that's our that's our profession anyway so you know there's going to be jokes and people are going to die sure those things can exist at the same time in the world because you don't have to make fun of the person dying that's the thing that we do we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes but we're not scumbags you understand so that's how that works understand if everybody think that and thinks that's great they're're going to have a good time. Let's just say that. And anybody who doesn't might not be for you, but it might be.

We're just saying don't complain later. Truth. So for that, for everybody else who wants to have a good time and hear a crazy story told by two idiots, I think it's time to sit back and shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip.

All right. I'd love that. Let's go. We're going from Connecticut. Fucking germs and let's go. We're going from Connecticut and we're going to head down into the hollers here. Not really into the hollers. We're going.

It's a pretty decent sized town, but still, it's Kentucky. Yeah. Oh, my. Home of the hollers. We're going to Elizabethtown, Kentucky. Okay. but still, it's Kentucky. Yeah. Oh, my. Home of the Holland. We're going to Elizabethtown, Kentucky. Okay. So it's in northern Kentucky. They want to step up the class to Jersey, the Jersey level.

They're creeping up to Ohio level class, Jimmy. The dream is to get to Cincinnati someday. Where it just smells like shit, not looks like shit. Smells like sulfur. that was the best if you're new to the show yeah we went to cincinnati landed got there got to our hotel downtown landed in kentucky landed in kentucky got to our hotel and i sniffed the air and then texted a friend of mine who is born and raised and really loves cincinnati and i said he is cincinnati i said hey let me ask you a question is Is there a smell in Cincinnati?

And he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, that's going to be sulfur. He goes, if the wind's blowing your way, you'll smell the zoo, too, if you're downtown. So it stinks terribly, but you're going to love it. I'm like, okay. So this place here, part of many little panhandles in northern Kentucky. 45 minutes over to Louisville. If you want to go, I guess, someplace probably different. College town, babe.

Yeah, Louisville. Go get drunk. That was a cool show that we did there. About two and a half hours up to Cincinnati, if you're ready to make a change. And about two and a half hours the opposite direction down to Tulane, Kentucky, which was our last episode, A Hollow Full of Murder. How long ago was that? I think that was.

That was episode 158. It's been a minute. February of 2020. Holy shit think that was that was episode 158 it's been a minute february of 2020 so it's we still that was right when we came back yeah from like from louisville i think probably we just got back from louisville and recorded that yeah and uh to to say thank you for the people of kentucky with the elderly ushers that was a great show that was fun yeah those people are awesome uh this is in Hardin County. Yep. And area code 270. And motto of this town.

This is the actual motto. Oh, boy. Now, a motto is supposed to be snappy. Yeah. You know, a little quick to the point. Hey, we're real good. Right. You should be here.

Quick to the point. Maybe a little humor. Even the most common one that they all use. A great place to work what is it work live and play listen to how they say this okay this is like a foreigner read that and then put it in actual longer terms elizabethtown has something to offer everyone whether you are doing business visiting or living here it's literally live work and, but just a way to make it more confusing. Let's make it worse. Someone who doesn't speak English as their first language put that on the website.

I feel like now history of this town established in 1793. The county was Kentucky's one of those old, sure. Old places. People had enough to take long to migrate there well you know there was always going to be people who uh we're going to have to we're going to go for a different circumstance you know and this is where they're going to flee to yeah and so the hills to hide in westward yeah that's far enough i guess i don't know i can hide here yeah this is good dug out a little place cover uh named after colonel john harden who was

an indian fighter who worked with the tribes in the local area that's what they say he was indian fighter who worked with that's what i mean to see his job is an indian fighter so that he would certainly be working with but you know it's funny because the word indian sometimes it's like okay to you it's there's context to use that it's which is weird like and it's funny because the word Indian, sometimes it's like, okay, there's context to use that, which is weird. And it's almost like there's other words like that, too. Let's not get into it. But there's other things where context is key, and this is one of them. And I don't know.

It would sound worse if it said Native American fighter, and he was fighting them. It sounded like I'm going to, you know, he's really fighting against them, or is he pitting them? I don't know what he's doing. I don't know if he's fighting with these people i don't know what's happening so he uh a bunch of after a little while people started to move here normal people that wanted to have homes and families and shit and uh yeah so uh elizabeth town came from a guy named colonel andrew hines who had some acres of land, and he decided to make some streets and lots and shit. Imagine doing that, having a big plot of land, and going, I'm just going to make roads.

Can you imagine seeing untouched land and then having the idea, let's ruin it? Well, yeah. Well, I guess you want to make money. Yeah. Thomas Lincoln here helped Samuel Haycraft build a mill race, which I don't know what that is. A race in mills.

At all. It's one word, mill race. Oh, really? Don't know what that is. At Haycraft's Mill on Valley Creek. And yeah, their daughter here, basically, Abraham Lincoln ended up being born around this area. That's the point. This is Abraham Lincoln's family.

So rather than go through their whole history, they're born here. They don't matter. He does. There you go. In 1862, Confederate General John Hunt Morgan and 3,000 cavalrymen attacked the town. They blasted more than 100 cannonballs into the town. That's a lot. That'll fuck shit up, I would imagine.

more than 100 cannonballs into the town that's a lot that'll fuck shit up i would imagine and uh they captured elizabeth town uh but they were just really trying to disrupt the railroad and the transportation of armaments and shit for the north sure and uh they burned a bunch of shit and stuff like that they do there you go after the battle one cannonball was found lodged in the building like in the side of a building in the public square. Yeah. And the building burned down in 1887, but they were rebuilt, and then they replaced the cannonball thing. And I guess they're trying to find the cannonball still. Oh, no, they have it. Yeah. They keep the cannonball there still.

So they still have a cannonball for some reason. That's nice. Memento. Remember when this place was destroyed? Let's remember that. Yeah. Hey, remember that? Yeah's hey remember that yeah that was fun right remember the worst day in our history let's make that remember when everything had holes right shit was on fire let's hang on to that from 1871 to 1873 that was

reconstruction era in the south here um the seventh cavalry and a battalion of the fourth infantry led by custer yeah general custer oh boy you know famed dying in a battle right fame uh were stationed there they were assigned there to suppress the local clan activities oh basically the clan was there and they were this was a part of reconstruction to make people do that they were the clan was attacking freed slaves and just general people i guess um just people everywhere uh also there's a lot of illegal distilleries around here that were cropping up tennessee known for or not tennessee kentucky and tennessee known for the yeah known for the the whiskey production Yeah, hill production of whiskey. There's a lot of outdoor bathtub production.

Yeah, a lot of hillside production. Dangerous production. Ah, this bottle was produced hillside. Wow. I can see. Oh, that's why there's leaf chunks in it. There we go. So they were also there to break those up and shit like that.

I have reviews of this town. Great. I have a five star review. I think we should always start out. He's proud and loves it. Hmm. Great. A lot of people like this place.

I don't know. That seems like people who live there a long time. Here we go. Five stars. I've been living in this neighborhood for 21 years. I'm now 22. Say again. Okay.

Did that again? His family moved there when he was one. Right. And he still lives with his parents. That's what he's saying. So good for you. My parents moved here in 1999, and we've loved it ever since. Every neighbor we have had has lived here for a max of eight years.

The neighborhood is, I don't know what that means. Is that good? Like they cycle out after eight years? There's a lot of turnover. It's wonderful. New people all the time. Nobody stays for the pension it's terrific i've never heard that as like a such a weird that's never a good thing comment yeah the neighborhood is family friendly what neighborhood isn't family friendly oh what are you moving in here with your family

fuck out of here with that that's what the point of a neighborhood is man they drove my family out why because of who you are no because we was a family i just they just drove us out it's just me now no family's allowed my family's somewhere else y'all got to get divorced and drop your kids off somewhere if y'all want to live here yeah they forced me to leave my kids at the firehouse that's what happened pet friendly apparently you're allowed to have a pet in your own house that's terrific i don't know why and safe overall a good community of people of every age race and sex well we'll find that out with the demographics later on it's located down

the street from the county schools counties schools okay and it is not far from the town supermarkets and shopping centers if you're looking for a place to settle down i would definitely suggest here okay there you go only for eight years though yeah fuck out uh here's one one star opposite and they've lived here their whole life too so this is a mirror experience got it uh one star i've lived i've lived elizabeth town my whole life all right that's a great start let's cut out those fucking words that just waste time it's wasting time is the problem that's just ridiculous it's pretty much boring okay well you could learn to write better yeah the city is just small boring businesses that's a legitimate complaint barely any social activities

again that's if it's a young person that's tough it's hard for me to go anywhere fun no no like No nightlife. When I'm in my 20s, I'm moving to another town. This is a teenager. This person is like 14. They're like, I'm getting out of here as soon as I can. I'm going to buy a bus ticket. I don't care.

I'm going to go to Cincinnati, man, where it's happening. He's going to be 21 and get a roofing job and go, you know, I can pay my bills with this. I'm just going to stick it. I'm just going to stick it. Yeah. I'm just going to stick it. I know people here. That helps. When I was 14, I was pissed off.

Today, not so much. That's all right. The community is quiet, but uninteresting. The stores are stupid. The stores are stupid. This is the guy that leaves out the word in, first of all. Well, I'm going to say this might be a young lady, because the next line is tons of creepy country guys in their 70s.

That's what it is. Yeah, who've been ogling her young... She goes on to the dress barn, and Uncle Mac's sitting at the corner of the fitting room. She goes out in an Amish dress because she really feels uncomfortable being ogled by old men spitting tobacco on the ground. Stores are stupid. These stores are stupid.

I'm totally moving out of here when I'm in my 20s and going someplace better. I would recommend a more lively and better town. Sure. Oh boy, so that's just one that's better. You know how that works. Wow.

Two stars here. Now, you know, it's not the worst but yeah i don't like it close it's close it's getting there yeah it's a small town compared to others okay fair yeah i mean yeah it's all relative i guess right i mean you know i mean miami's a small city compared to others. Sure. If you put in a basket, if you put New York, LA, Tokyo, and Shanghai, and put them all in one with Miami. Miami's a fucking- It's a small town.

Yeah, it's a little bit of a town. Seattle's only got a million people. It's a tiny town. I mean, relative to the others. It's a very small city. It's a tiny town. I mean, relative to the others. It's a very small city. It's a small city. There's no social activities here, and I'd like to see changes in that. Uh-huh.

Okay. Two stars again. Okay, let's see here. The nightlife in Elizabethtown is practically, what do you expect? It's practically non-existent. Yeah. It's, yes, of course it is. That's the point.

Yeah. That's why people are living here that want to live here because they don't want to deal with that shit. If they're that, that's why they would move to a small town here. But it is relatively safe. The healthy living factor is not very high. What does that mean? Is that like a thing that they put out on the news? You want fucking granola?

You want a fucking... Residents of Elizabeth Town. We need a Whole Foods around here. Comes on like Orson Welles Residents of Elizabeth Town The healthy living factor has dropped to an all time low Board your windows and stay in the house By God

Keep your children home from school And boil all water before drinking it The general store is out of the crate of granola It's happening. What the fuck? For there are not really any healthy events hosted. Healthy events? What the hell does that mean?

What do you want? You want a Tough Mudder? Is that what you want? You need an Iron Man race? We need Kale Fest. We'll find out if that's happening later on in the festival park. It starts with you. Yeah, go ahead and start one

run down the street there you go healthy event what do you need other people doing shit for you got a you need a color fun run and every and nearly every restaurant establishment is fast food okay that's a problem yeah uh the public schools do coordinate with each other on a regular basis though i don't know what that means to be be healthy? I don't jerk each other off. I have no idea. Who knows what they're doing to each other. The amount of things they could be coordinating. Oh, man.

This town has kind of pretty, it was only like 2,500 people kind of all the way through like till the end of World War II. Yeah. And then it's been steadily going up and up and up. And now it's kind of shot up in the last 20 years. Right now, population 29,794. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah, it's up of shot up in the last 20 years. Right now, population 29,794.

That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah, it's up 64% since 1990. Wow. So it's really been on the rise, this place. There's more male than female. It's more female than male. It's pretty average.

Median age is pretty close to the normal, about 37. Double the 85 and over group, though. Is that right? So that's the creepy guys yeah ogling they're just sitting there a rockin ogling ogling young girls there's a facebook group for old men somewhere that told them we all gotta move to elizabeth town there's a lot of elizabeths here just pictures of sophomores on it is that all it is everybody's profile picture their favorite local sophomore are they all moving there or is this like they've just stuck around if they've got they stuck around yeah

they're the huge population of the they're only like four percent but it's double what it usually is that's all i'm saying so uh married population a little bit under what it normally is which is actually honestly i'm a little surprised at that. But otherwise, pretty on the mark. Racially, 74.5% white, 10.7% black. So that's almost the average. 4.1% Asian, again, close to the average. 5.8% Hispanic. So it's pretty diverse.

For a small town, it's pretty diverse. 49.8% of the people here are religious, which is right. On average. And like you, this is how you tell if you're in the South, people go, well, that's not the South. Well, what percentage of you are Baptist? That's how you tell. Twenty six percent of you are Baptist, sir. Yeah. You are a Catholic of the South. That's all there is to it. That is heavy. Sorry. Yeah. Otherwise, it's all kind of spread out. 0.0% Jewish, though. That's not happening here.

Not wanting to come here. I don't know. Maybe it's the creepy country guys. Not all the kosher on the menu. Yeah, it's all fast food. Remember? That's the problem. Hardin County here, last election, 32% of the people voted Democrat, 62.5% voted Republican, and about 5% independent. So like much of Kentucky, a pretty conservative joint there.

Unemployment rate's a little bit high, a couple percentage over the national average at this point, but not too bad. Median household income is kind of low, though. It's about $57,000 and a half in the rest of the country. Here it is $45,000. It's about $57,000 and a half in the rest of the country. Here it is $45,000. It's about $46,000 here. So cost of living here is a little bit low, actually. $100,000 is average, regular. Here it is $83,000.

It's a little bit low. Housing is only a $70,000. So not bad. Median home cost here, $163,200. So not too shabby. Fairly affordable. Yeah, about 75% of the houses are between $100,000 and $300,200. So not too shabby. Fairly affordable. Yeah, about 75% of the houses are between $100,000 and $300,000. That's good.

Yeah, it's affordable. And if we have convinced you, how now haven't we here? You got to be there. To move here and stay here for a maximum of eight years. That's all you get. And eat fast food. We have. Kick your family out.

That's it. We have for you the elizabethtown kentucky real estate report all right your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 800 bucks okay so that's low that's usually about 1200 in the rest of the country. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,680 square foot. That's a lot. Kind of basic, plain. You can't tell if it's manufactured or not. It's just kind of there.

I like that. $118,500. 1,600 square feet. I mean, if you've got a couple of kids, almost 1,700, and you're on a tight budget, that's an option for you. It's got a yard. I mean, it's not bad. You can throw a swing set back there. You'll be doing fine.

I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,861 square foot. It's a big house. That's a lot. 3,000 square feet almost. It's a brick-raised ranch, all one level. Very cool. Nice place. Pretty nice.

Although the people have one of those stars on it, which I don't know why people have stars. What is that? Is that a thing? In Kentucky? It's everywhere. I don't know why people have stars. What is that? Is that a thing? In Kentucky? It's everywhere. I don't know where it is. Texas started the shit. But it's not the Texas star.

Oh, it's that nautical star? Yeah. What the fuck is that? I don't know. That was douchebags in 2006 that did that. Everybody has them now. I don't know. Maybe it's...

It was the people that were tattooing them on their elbows. Maybe it's like good luck or something on your house. I don't know. It's a nautical star. Maybe it keeps it from burning it down. I'm not sure what it is. It's like good luck or something on your house. I don't know. It's a nautical star. Keeps it from burning it down. I'm not sure what it is. It's an old sailor thing is what it is. Oh, okay.

A bunch of old sea fans out there. Pretty nice house. So $259,000 for this house, which that's not terrible. Then let's say you run all the fast food places here. Oh, you are King McDonald. King, you are Mr. McDonald. Six bedrooms, six bath, tea bowl for each and every b-hole. 9,23 are King McDonald. King, you are Mr. McDonald. Six bedrooms, six baths, tea bowl for each and every b-hole. 9,238 square feet.

Holy shit. Which is like three huge houses. That's pretty silly. On six acres. Yeah. It's stone and it's ridiculous, this fucking house. $1,650,000, which is still- For 10,000 square feet of house.

And six acres, which the house probably covers three of them with that fucking much house but still jesus that's a pretty low price that's not bad nothing i mean i can't afford it but it's not uh it's if you're that if you're in the market for a million and a half dollar house that's a great one plop that fucker anywhere else in the country and you're looking at $12 million. Oh, that easily. Yeah. Things to do here. I found the Heartland Festival, which is exactly what it sounds like. Yeah. It's come out and join us for the Heartland Festival.

Biscuits and gravy. That's it. Each year there will be music, food, family, and fun. Yeah. And more. We'll make you have fun. That's right. Fireworks on Friday and Saturday night. This is exactly what you'd expect. fun yeah and more we'll make you have fun that's right uh fireworks yeah on friday and saturday night this is exactly what you'd expect activities and attractions for who jimmy who the whole family

damn right it's goddamn right it's the whole family you bring out grandma yeah and your little toddler and they're both gonna have a good fucking time let me tell you something heartland festival then let's say you drop grandma and the little daughter off at home yeah you head on down to the elizabeth town bbq blues and bikes festival fuck there you go uh join us here uh it's i guess from noon to 10 p.m they're getting down here uh for the thunder into e-town motorcycle ride oh they are badass oh yeah uh sixth annual this was in 2018 because it's been canceled right uh sixth annual barbecue blues and bikers festival here smokers will be going all night oh oh food yes yes and the people and the people getting ready for 25 000 plus

bikers barbecue and blues fans to gobble up my god that's a shitload of that stinks wow yeah that's gonna be that's gonna be it's gonna smell awful between the exhaust fumes from the bikes you better hope it's a cool non-humid day barbecue and the the tits of these fellas under tit the under tit of a bike ride into this place is gonna. Now, the blues stages, that's right, two stages. It says that here. We'll be busting out, quote, smoking blues. Not smoke, it's smoking. Yeah.

Apostrophe blues from 12 to 10. Fucking 10 hours of blues. God damn it. Oh, man, there's going to be some sort of ride for charity here. Sure. Then it says just a little thing here. The kids area will be open noon to 6 p.m. We don't encourage that, but you can stick them a minute we got a little cage for him you can put him in 6 p.m comes it's in the rest of his home we toss chicken mcnuggets in there every 15 20

minutes or so they scramble for him they eventually all eat it's fine uh the streets of downtown elizabethtown will be buzzing with families the smell of of barbecue. Oh, boy. Let's not talk about this. I wouldn't bring up the smell factor. No. Even if you're going to say it's good, I'd lean away from anything that you're In the summertime in Kentucky, calm down.

Late May in Kentucky, that's human. But the smell, I don't want it. Oh, boy. That's going to be, I mean, the smoke and meat's going to be good, but it's going to mesh with a lot of undertit. You're trying to pass all of that coif together as just barbecue? Calm down.

Yeah, no, no. I wouldn't want to eat that. There's a lot of smells in there. I don't want to eat that. I can picture. Your hickory ain't covering your armpits. No, maybe they just rub it on there. I got hickory deodorant on.

Let's see here. The smell of BBQ, the smoking sounds of of blues and the sight of thousands of motorcycles yeah all right the lineup of bands is unbelievable i'll bet it is i i mean let's go over it let's see if we can believe it um i'm not sure if we can uh now mind you every time we do this somebody complains to us like they're actually really good yeah maybe they are if we've never heard of them we're just gonna make fun of their name that's how it works don't give a shit if they're the greatest band in the world yeah i'm not gonna believe that they're any good no that's it because i don't know uh laurie jane and the 45s yeah they mean the little record or the gun which one are we

talking about here uh the cash box kings oh they're thieves huh either they're thieves or johnny cash yeah like you know cover band cover band that might be it here or they take they're thieves, huh? Either they're thieves or Johnny Cash, like, you know. Cover band. Cover band. That might be it here. Or they take. They're trying to pretend like they're. Carnival. Yeah.

They like steal cash boxes from carnies or something. Who uses, bake sales? Who uses cash boxes? You're robbing the fucking Girl Scouts. You're robbing. Yeah. She sold a lot of Samoas today. I'm going to rough her up and take what she's got.

It's hard. She's holding. She's holding something. The Stella V's. Oh. Okay. V-E-E-S. Norman Jackson Band.

Okay. Not even the Norman. Yeah. Just Norman Jackson Band. He's proud of himself. His last name is Band. Yeah. Very proud.

Kenny Neal. That's it. Kenny? Kenny. As the night goes on, the names get less silly. Eden Brent. That sounds very country. It does.

Everybody, it's Eden Brent. Yeah. Is it two people or is that just one girl named Eden? Eden Brent. I don't know how that works. E-D-E-N Brent. I don't know. John Primer.

Yep. And then finally, John Del Toro, in quotes, Richardson. Okay. So, I mean, if you can't get off on that. John Del Toro? What? Del Toro. He's got the whitest name ever and throws a Spanish.

Richardson. Yeah, right. Yeah. Throws a Spanish curveball at us. Yeah, well, yeah, we're supposed to. What do you think you are, Richard? Because he plays like, you know, he's like a Los Lobos cover band, basically. Yeah, but it was John.

Yeah. Last name Richardson. He plays La Bamba 12 times and then gets off stage. Sounds a bit of a rattlesnake. That's it. Hold on. I'm going to throw in O'Donoghue for you. Hold on a minute.

All right. Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in, of course, here. The property crime, actually just slightly above the national average, but not too high. It's within normal range. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is less than half of the national average. So it's under half the national average.

Very, very low. So that said, of course, now it's time to talk about a murder. Absolutely. Let's do this here. Let's go. Let's start out. Let's talk about a murder absolutely let's do this here let's go let's start out let's let's talk about a couple of people i love it let's see what they're where they are in their lives yeah i like to jump into people's lives and kind of figure out just have a gander we'll look around and then come back that's what i mean we're gonna look in we're gonna see who these people are let's go back to 2004 everybody remember 2004 uh i guess no idea it was all about to go to shit

well i mean it's that's the time of like you could you could check your email on your phone but it took 15 minutes like you really had to work at it and it was a no like the only social media was like myspace right and message boards and shit so this is a very different time brett michaels didn't know was all about to come crashing down oh he knew it again well you know he was just about to make a comeback actually wasn't that stupid wasn't that this then wasn't that 2007 ish that shit yeah like 2004 to 2006 now that's when flave of flave came and then they started getting anybody and we're like whatever who was the new kids on the block right there. There's Bret Michaels. Can we get, oh, Vince Neil looks terrible.

How's Bret Michaels look? A little better, I guess. I mean, he's got hair plugs. Put him on TV. Extensions and shit. Let's do it. Where's a fucking bandana anyway? What's the difference? Get him out there.

And everything's hot to him. Let's do it. He's got like an eye makeup tattoo. Why not? He's ready to go. He's camera ready. Put him on stage there. Let's go.

Let's have him fuck people that nobody else wants to fuck anymore. Let's have young women fawn over him. Yeah, that'll work. There's only like six young women. There was always these like, holy shit. Which makes sense because he was like 48. Why should there be a bunch of 22-year-olds? He should have some 40-year-olds in there.

But these chicks look like they've been following bands for the last 30 years. Well, who would volunteer for the show? It's a good point. Either people who really want to be on TV or someone who's like, I've been wanting to fuck Bret Michaels since 89. Right. I saw every Rose Has It's Thorn video and I was like, oh, that black and white Bret Michaels is so goddamn sexy.

I'm going to fuck him. One of the chicks in one of the seasons I think fucked his drummer. That's not okay. That's just the whole thing is wrong that shit is unbelievable we're just saying to want to have sex with anyone who was in poison is weird that's crazy it's just a weird thing what's wrong with you yeah stop it get over that welcome to the small town of chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper in this new thriller available exclusively on wondery plus religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah. That's not good. So, anyway, let's talk about a young lady here now that we've said a bunch of horrible shit let's talk about a young woman here and we'll clear the cleanse the palate right uh her name is julie marie white boyd uh boyd is her married name julie marie white is her given name here uh She's 26 years old in 2004, Miss White. And I say Miss because she's just getting out of a five-year marriage. So Miss, Miss, whatever you want to say. Not Mrs. at this point.

And she's just getting out of this five-year marriage. She's trying to start her life over. She's dropping Boyd. She's dropping the Boyd, but she's using it for now. Got it. But, I mean, so she got married when she's 21. Yeah. And then getting out of this marriage,'s a you know that's that's tough so you're stuck but it's a

good time you still have a lot of oh you got your whole life ahead of you no kids right so i mean you can it feels like it fuck like everything's over yeah but in in reality you are the world world's your oyster here for you yeah it's built for you it's good it's tough because you're it would be hard to like if you're married at 21 and then at 26 you got a divorce you'd be like oh what how do people do stuff again now because even from like 99 to 2004 the world changed a lot that and half of your 20s is like that's where you learn things like in 1921 1921 you think you know everything then at 22 you realize you don't know. Fuck.

Yeah. And by the time you're 26, you're like, thank God, I don't know anything. This world's amazing. I can learn things. But she's been in an area where she has been married. And so she probably feels like she knows a ton. Yeah. Well, that's the marriage. And I don't know if why this is, but marriage definitely makes you feel older.

Sure does. I don't know if it's the decision to do something that's kind of so like serious like that or if it's just the fact that it ages you rapidly and culturally that's kind of the end of the next step is death sir yeah and once you get well it's once even back in the day when like girls weren't allowed to do anything in their families even next step death next step anything they girls weren't allowed to do anything in their families even next step death next step anything they girls weren't allowed to do anything at all they weren't allowed to go out if some guy proposed to him oh fine you're married now go ahead like it was fine they didn't even say like

you shouldn't do that or anything it was just like well now they're an adult i guess yesterday 10 o'clock curfew today married stay up all night do whatever you want you got to cook yourself your husband's breakfast live with that guy well yeah we're talking about the 50s so that would have been a definite there that's the thing so julie's trying to start over in 2004 uh at the beginning of the year her husband was the one who said he wanted a divorce okay so you know this was an unexpected thing this wasn't her choice right away so she's trying to move on and and figure it out um she goes to church her family's fairly religious um she's a member of the southeast christian church and uh she works as an it manager at the i pay i dash pay in elizabethtown okay i don't know what

that is i don't either that's is that like it's a kiosk for something like a bill pay kiosk where you can pay like your water bill yeah maybe they're like right you could see that happening yeah like a little uh it's got to be something for utilities or something you're loading something as credit that's what you're doing yeah i guess so so i don't know though anyway she's an it manager so she's got it's a good career you know i mean especially she's moving in 2004 especially if you were's an IT manager, so she's got a good career. Keep those machines moving. In 2004, especially, if you were 26, being in IT, you'd still have a job. So good career path here. Today, her 401K is booming.

Yeah, good career path for Julie. Unless she worked for WorldCom or something. And that would have been her. Enron. I got a job at Enron, Mom. Oh, shit. IT manager at Enron. oh shit it manager at enro oh wow oh how much is the lawyer gonna cost you you're done with that it's gonna be a lot you

might go to prison can you asshole so uh a uh few months later she they're they're not getting along post breakup now her and boyd here and uh i don't know why it's a weird thing because he was the one who wanted to break up but then afterwards now there's apparently friction some regret to the point where julie has to take out a restraining order on him fuck man so what's your fucking problem dude if you wanted to be in the relationship you should have been in the relationship and if you didn't there's an old saying james go away lay in the relationship, you should have been in the relationship. And if you didn't. There's an old saying, James. Go away. Lay in the bed you made or some shit like that.

Something like that. I don't know. You make your own bed and eat your cake. You made this decision. Run with it, sir. You wanted to be single. It sucks, doesn't it? You want to eat your cake and have a bed.

So now you got it. What do you think of that? Now you got crumbs on it. And it's chocolate cake and it looks like you shit the bed. So what's up? Rub it on your chest without your shirt on and be a happy guy. That's what you did. You chose this life.

Yeah. I mean, but she's like fearing him. Julie is fearing her ex-husband. Jesus. To the point where her neighbor, a woman named April Velez, said that Julie purchased a gun to keep with her, at least at her apartment, out of fear of her ex-husband here, or soon to be ex-husband. So that's a restraining order plus a gun equals there's something up here.

I mean, that's not just a misunderstanding. That's that cyclical child, or not child abuse, cyclical uh spousal abuse that he that he was looking for that's what that's what he this is the kind of thing that he's building yeah and i mean we don't know there is no i like uh we don't know if there's been abuse or anything like that or if this is just some sort of mental abuse clearly at this point whatever the hell's causing a restraining order and someone to purchase a gun right has to be something at least you know on the border of abusive i would imagine or you don't kick people out and then force them try to force them to come back and that's i mean yeah without a without a restraining order it doesn't sound

like he's forcing but with one it sure sounds like it's it's very strange but julie apparently stays upbeat and she always she's one of those people that i guess it's hard to uh hard to realize she's got problems because she likes to stay upbeat and she likes to help other people it's a type of person you know what i mean uh everybody says she's gonna bubbly and fun and nice and you know all that kind of shit so good that's good because some people can get a relationship like that that goes bad can break people sometimes so she keeps her spirit um uh she moved to uh el to Elizabeth Town from a smaller town outside here. And she was attending different church groups, including one at the Severn's Valley Baptist Church. It was a divorce recovery group.

So she's having a hard time with everything. And maybe I'm sure that's a lot of people scared of their spouses and sharing scared of their spouses and sharing that and i'm sure that's probably a it's probably a wide net bonder yeah yeah it's a wide net cast over of general divorce absolutely problems here so she's doing that she's at the church she's she's really trying to move on yeah uh her mother said quote she got her apartment she actually got a builder to start building a house at this point. Yeah. I mean, she's ready for a new life. So, I mean, she was.

Yeah. She's doing all the work. She's doing the work. And she's actually even like going to. Right. Like a group to like help. That's going to actual. It's impressive.

Like a therapy. Therapy sessions are enough. Church is so much more guilt. Yeah. Well, I don't think it's it's in the church, but it's probably like a is church sometimes too you know what i'm saying i think it's one of those it's a i'm sure that's everybody there is probably from the church but i don't think like it's like you know the lord will guide you through divorce i don't think there's anyone doing that i think they're all just church people who are talking about their divorce problems so they don't have to feel guilty

about it i i probably should have done that that sounds like so much fun not at church though no just some sort of group where we just all bitch about them that sounds like fun you just came over my house and did it yeah but see the difference is like you're removed from it by like four years or so so you're like oh i think i remember some of that yeah not really that bad some of that oh not definitely not that well yeah we had a different experience also i would have much rather enjoyed going with like where we all just feel like we just ripped the Band-Aid off and we're all at the same level of pissed off. A bunch of very angry people together.

I want that group. That's funny. Well, the one o'clock group is for people who are, they're all right with the divorce. It was pretty amicable. The three o'clock group, I mean, that's a little more aggressive. There's maybe like a custody battle or something. The five o'clock group, oh my God, that's a mess's a maybe like a custody battle or something the five o'clock group oh my god that's a mess we sell tickets to it that's how great it is restraining orders going around from people there's restraining orders against people in each other in the group there's a battle we hold that in the basketball arena

because we sell tickets and it's sold out so maybe next month that's so now december of 2004 comes around so this has been an active year for julie husband wants a divorce at the beginning of the year gets her own place moves out divorce recovery group gun restraining order she's busy she's got a lot going on she's building a life she has a job that's you know it seems like it's time consuming i would would imagine. She's working 40 hours a week, I'm sure, being an IT person. So she has a problem. Her ex-husband, Boyd, we'll call him ex-Boyd here. Because in everything here, it's really hard to find his first name. I don't know if they're like, why that is.

Is he like Madonna? No, he's just Boyd. Kentucky Boyd. Ha ha boy that's the name so he they have him here uh he apparently has a truck that belongs to her okay that he was his truck that he was driving but it's she bought it and it's her truck and she's in her name yeah it's in her name she's paying for it i guess motherfucker exactly so finally by december of 2004 when all the dust is starting to settle here she decides she wants to get it back yeah so she finds a guy in the group of that she's in one in the divorce group here and this one guy his uncle

or his cousin i mean has a private investigation firm and all that they do some repos and they do stuff like that so yeah exactly so um yeah she was kind of told he might be able to help her and that's so they kind of you know become they get to know each other in the group here um and uh basically she was telling everybody that know, she thought her husband was going to be pissed off about this. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah. It's winter. Yeah.

And the weather's bad and shit like that here. We're in December. And I guess he has a car that's always fucked up and broken down. So he, like, needs a truck for work and shit like that. But she's taking it back. So she said, this is going to be bad. That's why it helps to have somebody helping me on this repo here yeah um so uh she said that quote uh she told other people that basically if something happened to

her her husband did it one of those hey something ever happens to me right he's gonna it's probably because i'm taking his truck away and i put a restraining order on him the words are i'm taking my truck back exactly furious in his mind yeah taking my truck back. Exactly. And he's going to be furious. In his mind, taking my truck away. Right. You know what I mean? So he's going to be upset. So back to the summer of 2004, that's when she had met a guy named Harvey Edward Skaggs Jr. He sounds great.

Wow. Yeah. Harvey, I'll say that one more time. Harvey Edward Skaggs Jr. He plays the spoons. Whoa. That is hardcore, man. That's Kentucky.

And I found, like, his family tree, too. They are. He didn't just move there eight years ago, like these people in the review. He's been there a while. Yeah, he's like, we kicked Boz out. Boz's side of the family got kicked out in 1745. Custer drove him out in the 1870s. Wow.

She meets him, and this is at a divorce recovery group at the Severance Valley Baptist Church. He's there also, obviously. I assume he's not just swinging for chicks. Right. I assume. It's a pretty smart ploy, though. I get it. But you better have a really good story. He's just a guy that just brings just swinging for chicks. Right. I assume. That's a pretty smart ploy, though. I get it. But you better have a really good story.

He's just a guy that just brings muffins for everybody. You know what? I understand you guys are probably pissed off. Brought you some sugar for the evening. I'm Mr. Skaggs. If you were the weird guy named Harvey Skaggs. I'm Harvey Skaggs, Jr. Who isn't divorced and just hangs around the divorce group.

I have a feeling people are going to give you some shit. Yeah. He's dropping the shiny lure. I assume so. So, yeah, this is going to be bad all around. So at some point here, this is when they talk about the repossessing the truck and all that sort of thing. Harvey here, he's got no kind of criminal record or anything like that. He's a pretty just kind of a normal guy.

He was in the Air Force. He went in the Air Force right after high school and was in there for about 10 years. My God. So he's 30 now. So he's been out of the Air Force for a couple of years. He's apparently divorced. That's a retired guy, right? You can retire in 10, I think.

I'm not sure about that. I think that's true. I think if you re-up twice, you can retire after. I'm sure there's some sort of package. package retired hey good for you so man he's doing like i think he does some hvac okay he does some uh work for his cousin's pi firm on the side too so he's trying to figure out what he wants to do with himself basically he came back from you know just being in you know active duty i guess it would be actually in the service and wearing a uniform and shit now he's a civilian he's just like i don't know what to do with myself right try to

find a good path for me basically uh so he does that he's doing a little repo work here a little stuff like that and he says about julie quote she wanted me to try to find the truck that was in her name and if i could get the truck and bring it back to her fair enough that seems pretty easy task pretty basic i guess that's a repo let's go so i mean she gets this guy i don't know she may be thinking oh you know my ex-husband's not gonna fuck with a guy named harvey skags at the time his main job harvey is he works for alan's heating and air conditioning okay so there you go and his his cousin this is great because it just reminds At the time, his main job, Harvey, is he works for Allen's Heating and Air Conditioning. So there you go. And his cousin, this is great because it just reminds me of Back to the Future here.

His cousin's name, Marvin. Marvin Skaggs. Marvin and Harvey? Marvin and Harvey. They love names with V's in them. That is wild, man. That's a lot. Marvin and Harvey.

We're going to have the whole family. wild man that's a that's a lot uh marvin and harvey we're gonna the whole family now uh so yeah boyd apparently is uh is pissed and you know whatever and i guess he's keeping the truck in his garage because he knows this is coming he's heard this is coming so yeah strategy now old boyd their ex boyd is just hiding the truck he's never gonna take my truck from me what people do when they from the banks after him yeah that's what i mean how come i hide it in the backyard turned around Boyd is just hiding the truck. He's never going to take my truck from me. Like people do when the bank's after them. Yeah, that's what I mean. How come I hide it in the backyard, turned around so they can't see the plate? That's how it's going to work.

That's pretty fucking amazing. So on December the 29th, 2004, here comes around, and Skaggs and Boyd here by Julie. We're talking here. Meet at the church to discuss Harvey going to repossess the truck sometime that week. Maybe we can do this. What Harvey says is I need a copy of the truck's title and a note granting me permission to drive it to you basically so you

know that all makes sense to make it legal shouldn't in a position like this you just call the cops to go with you you know what i mean they don't they don't do that wouldn't that be the smart they won't do that there's a tv show on a and e that used to be like repo and trucks and shit these guys were like strapped and shit yeah they call the cops because this is a dangerous job to be doing well yeah i used to be a process server and basically like if there was a problem and you call the cops, they wouldn't help you at all. Really? They'd be like, I don't know.

This guy's threatening to shoot me while I serve literal fucking judicial process here. You might maybe just come out and say, hey, don't shoot him. And they're like, nah, basically call us back if he shoots you. That's basically what it was. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks's basically what it was. Maybe you should have gone to high school, James. Yeah, thanks a lot.

Appreciate that. Thanks for everything, officer. I'll see you the next time I have to drop the child support upping papers on you, sir. Thank you. Can't wait for that day. Thanks for the help. Appreciate your help. That'll be a sweet day for me, finally.

I'm looking forward to the day that your wife catches you cheating on her you loser allow me to help i used to hate that i had to do some weird shit like there's a uh i won't say who it is but i had to like uh it's a guy who's actually famous in phoenix here i had to drop papers on him his wife made me do it but she made me sit in the starbucks with them not with them off like in a like i was there when they got there and then she wanted to tell like like read him the riot act and then when she got up then i go over and drop the papers like i had to like play the whole thing so i had to sit there and watch her argue with him yeah for like 20 minutes there could be an amazing movie about a process server well they've made stupid pineapple express and ruined it for everybody so that's the only one that'll ever happen now god damn if you're right you could make a really good movie about a process server. Well, they've made stupid pineapple express and ruined it for everybody. So that's the only one that will ever happen now.

God damn it. If you're right, you could make a really good movie about it because there's a lot of stories. One that doesn't involve weed would be great. Well, yeah. I mean, although weed helps in that job, I will say. I mean, but don't make the plot of the movie weed. That's the problem right there. Yeah.

If you made the plot. Give it a good plot, but then throw some spicy shit of a basketball player getting served in a Starbucks. It was a businessman, they'll say. It was an older guy. It was funny. Well, James has to learn how to order a Starbucks coffee. I just got hot chocolate. I don't like coffee.

So I'm drinking hot chocolate. I'm sure the guy in the beanie in 112 degrees was like, really, bro? She did buy me hot chocolate, though. I will say that. So that was nice of her. It was on her. I think it was a small one because I'm just, you i thought it's large i thought she was gonna be like you're a dick and i'm leaving and move but this was like a whole speech she had this was a monologue that she worked out because he didn't say five words

the whole time he sat there nodding his head and she was just she was going and then she just got up and looked at me and i was like all right i guess i gotta do an old jay leto i went there you go and he just went like all right like he just had this resigned look like all right i understand i gotta give her credit for the orchestration of the whole thing she really had a whole she has some jokes about paris hilton to level in there too i guess if you nick lachey. Hey, what are you doing? I would say if you got a couple of bucks and you want to divorce your spouse, that's probably the way to do it. It's pretty solid. It's pretty fucking cool.

Public? If you're going to do that in public, have papers dropped on them. And like I said, some people recognize and shit, too, which made it even funnier. Also, if you don't know whether or not you're going to have a contentious or an amicable divorce, that's a good way to figure it out. Yeah. When she does that shit in a Starbucks. And James hands you a packet over your shoulder. Yeah, I just dropped it right next to his fucking coffee, man.

I think he had like a croissant type situation going. Some sort of pastry and I just put it right next to that. There you go. I got to go. Good news good news bad news good news is you got a pastry yeah bad news that's the last of your money bad news is you're not gonna be able to afford a pastry soon because i've seen what she wants in the papers and oh boy you're in trouble sir she wants all the paste i also saw that you did bad things and she's probably going to get all that shit. So just saying. Not for nothing. Oh, that's fantastic.

Jesus Christ. So December 29th there, like I said, they meet at the truck. They meet at the church. Julie gives Harvey the pay, the title and the note saying, you know, Harvey is allowed to drive this truck to me in a repossession type situation. It's not his. Exactly. to drive this truck to me in a repossession type situation it's not his exactly so uh they plan to meet the following night and try to accomplish this goal here so uh december 30th 2004 here they meet at 8 p.m and in rhineyville yeah this is in rhineyville uh that's you know down the road

everybody knows rhineyville it's right outside of elizabethtown we've heard tell of it we know we all know uh pray tell yeah so uh harvey meets julie at the convenience store and uh julie at this point is driving a ford mustang that she had just picked up from her parents house i guess i don't know if it's their car or her car that she was keeping there or what but she's driving a mustang he is driving his work van at the time, Harvey Skaggs, which is the Allen's heating and air conditioning van. Awesome. So yeah, he's got the HVAC van, which fits in anywhere. That's like in every cheesy movie

when somebody's team of detectives is doing work, it's either a dry cleaning van or an HVAC van or even a phone company vans too sometimes it's too much the phone company but it's like our phones work fine why is that fucking guy here exactly that's and you even see that in movies aren't my phone's fine why is he outside unless i and then they shoot him off a pole right but like in this situation like if you saw an hvac truck you're like yeah everybody's you know heating or air conditioning is always fucked up you know it's december who knows? Yeah, who knows?

Or whatever. So it seems fine. So he's driving that. She's driving a Mustang. So they meet at the Jerry Mart. J-E-R-R-I. Oh, boy. Like a curl. You get a bunch of curls there? There's an H in there, I think, in the curl. But still. I think you're right. J-H-E-R-I. Yeah, yeah. Either way, though.

It's Jerry Curl Mart here in Rineyville. Just aisles of grease. It's just a big picture of Eazy-E over the entrance. That's all it is. Him and Eric LaSalle about to fight. Yeah, the black guy's mullet. Everybody's embarrassed that they had it. Yeah, it is.

No, that's what it is. That's the black guy's version of the Joe Dirt mullet. That's exactly what it is. Like, oh, man. I i can't believe i did that i'm burning all my 80s pictures i'll tell you what black guy's like me too so i'm gonna also burn all of my shit because i was dripping keep that lid dripping these i was so dripping these pictures will fuel that fire yeah look at even pictures of it were flammable you couldn't even see my face when the flash off the shininess of my jerry curl that's the problem it was just a light it's like like a glow around sometimes when you take a picture your eyes turn red uh my head turned red

turned just a white glow that's what happened to my head and my jerry curls of course so uh anyway at 9 30 uh before 9 30 they met at 8 like i said they're they're talking at the at the uh jerry mart yeah and the way uh harvey skaggs puts it quote and from there everything went haywire soon as we pulled in which is not to unravel exactly that's not good right when they got together to talk about this at 9 30 p.m uh julie talks on the phone with linda davis who's a friend of hers from church and she's with harvey at this point they'd met like i said she's still with them they're they're planning on how to do the repo yeah and julie is planning to stay the night with dav Davis so her husband can't find her. So basically, she's like, if we pull this off, he's going to come fucking looking for me probably.

And I better be, you know, I better be in the wind here for my own safety. So she is on the phone or she's on the phone going to stay with this Linda Davis that night after they figure out what they're doing. So Davis here says that Julie said um said well things aren't looking good maybe we're not going to get it tonight we're waiting uh for them to bring the truck so that's what julie told uh her friend basically so i don't know what's going to happen but either way i'll be there later maybe i'll get the truck maybe i won't we'll see which sounds how many times do you have to try to get this truck that sounds frustrating how fucked is society that this doing what's right is fucking dangerous yeah it is to get your truck back your shit back to get your thing that you're paying

for paid for it yeah it's her money still yeah this guy's gonna be this this is crazy it's it's really interesting here so and messed up so around 11 30 p.m they're still trying to figure out what to do so it's been three and a half hours now right all this shit down a plan yet i guess i don't know if they're trying to find him yeah or you know maybe they heard he's over here maybe the truck's at a bar maybe it's in his garage yeah i guess you got to try to track down where it is first bar would be great a bar would be perfect just go in take it and go or you know you walk in you send a guy that doesn't know him to sit down at the bar buy the guy a drink and then fake a phone call and be like i gotta run this guy's busy with this beer that's plenty of time to get this truck on the truck or you could just go anyway yeah probably either jump

the fuck in and put your key in he's drinking yeah how drunk is he yeah let me ask you a question how much of a drunk is your ex-husband he'm gonna be there till closing isn't he all right then we got time it's it's all right just bring it in bring lunch into it roast beef please yeah you bring me a sandwich oh perfect just i love eating it in a bar parking lot at midnight the sound or the the fumes of a of a flatbed idling nearby flatbed diesel so julie calls her mother at this point yeah uh and her mother says quote as always she says mom i'm fine don't worry um she said the mother says she always tells her to be safe and that was that basically and uh the mother says quote that's really the last thing i was able to ever say to her oh no so okay cut to 2 a.m now that was 11 30 2 a.m um harvey says that he

wakes up from unconsciousness at 2 a.m yeah he's been knocked unconscious and he wakes up at 2 a.m in the back of his van lying next to julie uh-huh um julie he says had electrical tape around her neck and was making a gurgling sound oh boy okay he says that he removed the electrical tape and turned her head to the side to clear her airway uh then he drove the van from this was in the uh then he drove the van here to the harden memorial hospital and uh they arrived about 2.15 at the hospital he parked the car in the parking garage instead of going to the parking garage rather than the

ER entrance and then he carried her from the garage to the ER entrance got inside and collapsed on the ground with her and everybody fell in a heap and you know you can imagine picture the scene that's going to go on there too bloody people jaded nurses going with her and everybody fell in a heap and you know you can imagine right picture something you know the scene that's going to go on there too bloody people jaded nurses going oh this again yeah oh

boy here we go so uh apparently you know julie has electrical tape on her and stuff and things that would show that wow these there's medical assistance right needed at this point this is a problem so i would say that from 11 30 to 2 o'clock in the mornings, whatever happened in there, I would classify that as haywire. Probably. It's a lot that happened. Yeah, it's a lot of haywire. Let's just say that.

So now what happened exactly? Obviously, I'm kind of curious to know here. Now, according to Harvey, Julie left her Mustang at jerry mart and got into the van with him yeah which usually is never a good idea to get into a van with someone but in this case understandable one of the only times one of the only times here so that it would be an okay idea so they drove around for two hours discussing the details of how they're going to repo it where is the van where's the truck where are we going to do this and then uh harvey says that he then brought her back to the mustang at the jerry

mart after a couple hours because they couldn't find the truck right basically couldn't come up with a plan at the time to get it that night and she told her friend even we might not get it tonight you know basically this is her new hobby is trying to repossess this fucking truck because And I, you know, basically this is her new hobby is trying to repossess this fucking truck because who knows how long it's going to take. You know, that sucks. So anyway, he brings her back there. And what he says, Harvey says that when she exited the van, as soon as she got out, he says a man grabbed her from behind. Oh, no.

And pushed her back into the passenger seat of the van while Harvey's in the driver's seat. He said that this man and a second man who was smaller than the first man then got into the van through the cargo doors of the van through the back. As you can picture those ones that open out like that. So Julie pushed back into the passenger seat. These two rushed through the cargo van. It might have been the side, actually, not the back. Possibly the slider. Yeah, it's got to be the slider.

Because the other way, you'd have time to get away, right? Yeah. Now they're trapped in the van. Yeah, the other way, there's only a little support thing between that door and that door. So they pop in through the cargo area of the van and get into there. He also says, Harvey does, that the larger man entered the van with a gun. Uh-oh. He said that he had the gun and had it out, and then he put it away at that point and basically was like, you know, I got a gun kind of a thing.

You've seen it. You've seen it. I don't have to fucking hold it on you the whole time. We're all adults here. I got to see this elbow. Yeah, it hurts to hold it up. I got a carpal tunnel situation. Just drive.

You know, drive. Go ahead. I've been typing a lot. Let's just say I got a there's a pen pal. I talk to. Never mind. All right. She lives in the Philippines.

It's fine. Just leave me alone. You have said too much. So Harvey says at that point that the men told him to drive. Basically, you drive right now. And for the next two hours he drove all around harden county oh boy i mean i don't know what why you would want to take people and make them drive around for two hours but whatever it took them two hours to figure out what to do with them while it took

them two hours to figure out how do we get a truck yeah and imagine if this was going on and while it was happening it was was like, there's the truck. Yeah. Then what? Listen, guys, I know it's like a real, like a weird situation, but I'll give you like 500 bucks if you help us repo this truck. That gun's going to come in handy.

Yes. That would be helpful. But anyway, he says that the two men were wearing masks. So not possible to ID with open area around the eyes you know like a ski mask and he says they spoke and this is a quote with quote very proper with yankee accents okay very i don't know what i don't know what that means very proper did like a harvard professor yeah like an old timey like uh stuffy new england accent they've got manners, and they're from Boston. Like a Kennedy?

Yeah. You know, maybe? Or are we talking like a pretentious Harvard professor? Is that what we're talking about? I want it to be Kennedy's. Right? That would be hilarious. I'd rather not drive.

Drive around? I would love that. I'd rather not drive the van. If it was Ted Kennedy, drive it into that river. Right off the bridge. If it's Ted Kennedy, drive it into that river. Right off the bridge. If it's Ted Kennedy, avoid the rivers. Please.

Avoid the bridges. Who's been drinking? I have PTSD. Give me some. Now, they, very proper, or Yankee, does that mean? I don't know what that means. Yeah, proper. That's so vague. Or is a proper Yankee accent like, Hey, fucking van what are you doing hey get in here drive your hey drive around yeah

what do you hey what the you saw the gun i don't need to keep it out the fuck you hired me don't look at me hey i got tendonitis in my fucking shoulder i keep it on you all night no tell out of here what he's doing come on drive keep driving you get what's happening here very proper with yankee accents it's so specifically vague i don't yeah that could be it's very proper with yankee accents nothing it means everything and nothing at the same time and what is he imagine as someone that's actually like that very proper yankee accent where are you what year is this is that how people talk doesn't make no right um so that's so weird it has to be like like proper professional which how many carjackers with with hoods with masks on speak with if you say that to

two different detectives though both of them have a different idea of what was just said yeah that's the other thing too you've got it you both of them have to look idea of what was just said yeah that's the other thing too you've got it you both of them have to look at each other and go nope not you help me either say it again what are you talking about he does say that the men called julie by her first name that's not speaking to her in a mocking tone he said with proper yankee accents i guess i don't know they asked julie if she had enough money to save harvey's life and then asked harvey if he had enough money to save julie's life probably not they were going back and forth you know who's gonna live here you got enough money you got enough money who's who's gonna save who uh the men here according to harvey asked julie if she had the money or if her husband had the

money okay uh now julie according to harvey's uh told the men that she didn't know what they were talking about i don't know what you mean i don't know what you're talking about not with my husband right so how i'm divorced i don't have one of those yeah so you know or they're not divorced yet right now he also says at some point during this interrogation about do you have this money? The larger of the men began to punch Julie in the mouth with his fist with a right hand. Every time he said he was popping her in the mouth of the right hand when he didn't like the answer she was giving. According to Harvey here um they demanded money from julie they kept you know demanding more money and when she i guess didn't acquiesce with exactly

what they wanted they continued to hit her and hit her over and over again so uh harvey says at this point all of this with a very proper yankee accent mind you yeah uh he says at this point he heard a thud and looked over and saw that julie was bleeding oh boy um he says he looked down he saw a hammer on the floor by the passenger seat so i don't know why someone would hit someone with a hammer and then put it on the floor if with access unless he threw it at her i maybe or dropped it um he says harvey says he told the men that's not necessary that's not that's uncalled for he said who's the proper one here um yeah hey that's uncalled for my friend i'm sorry yeah i mean that's out of line sir i mean there's being a dick and there's some etiquette and i mean this is just piss poor etiquette is what i'm telling

you no this is yeah obviously it's uncalled for. Punching, hitting a woman with a hammer is past the point of uncalled for. He crossed the line when he punched her. That's too far. That's too far. And the hammer is really a bit much. I would say. And to put it mildly.

Sure. Obviously, he says at that point, one of the men hit him in the back of the head punched him in the back of the head for i guess saying something yeah he says that a little while later because this is over the course of you know two hours god knows how long right uh sometime a little later the men hit boyd in the head with the hammer again he said hits julie again um harvey told her told later on he says that julie never tried to block any of the blows from the fist or the hammer because she never saw them coming first of all you're in a dark van he said and then they would just out of nowhere just whack her one so my guess is these

guys aren't wearing seat belts why don't you hit a fucking tree man or yeah something slam on the brakes and send them through the windshield i guess i. I mean, at this point, this guy's got a gun. Well, if they're behind the seats. I'll take my chances rolling this shit over. Behind the seats in an HVAC van is no seats. No, and there's so much shrapnel back there. Implement some shit. Oh, yeah, pipes and things.

You roll that fucking thing, it's over for them. Oh, God, they're going to be cutting 45. Oh, God, I have duct work in my neck. I think there's a fucking propane tank up my ass. Oh, God. I'm pretty positive of it. It's rough. People use propane for their meat.

They got a torch thing. Why? Why? It hurts up my ass is what I was getting at. Got it. Anyway. Yeah. At my house in New York, we have propane for like the stovetop is a propane thing.

Really? It's a propane stovetop. So you got to fill the propane tank. No, no, we don't have to fill shit. It's like a giant. It's like a huge tank. It's like in the back of the house. But you'll have to fill that one day.

It doesn't run out. There's a company that fills it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you fill it like once a year. That's my point. Somebody's got to come fill that. Yeah, like once the same. There's oil there too.

So it's the same people that do. Wait, what? Oil heat. There's an oil burner type thing. Oh, my. An old house. That's a real thing yeah you got oil pumping through the house it goes into the burner and then that makes heat that comes out of radiators

oh that's horrifying a guy comes in with a hose and fucking pipes oil into your fucking house basement there oh my god there's a little pipe that comes out of the basement that he puts it in it goes into the there's natural gas today james switch this shit over you can't there's no natural gas line to the house is like, it's an old house, Jimmy. I am so scared to death. No, that's not. People lived for hundreds of years like that, I think. Not hundreds, I guess.

Obviously, they still do. There's probably fires, I guess. A couple hundred years. Yeah. They still do. But they still have it in England. They have oil lamps, right? On the streets?

I mean, that's just for show, I think. At that point, it's just kitschy now, right? It's not actually... That's just some hipster shit. This is the best way to make light. I don't think anyone's saying that this is it. Yeah, I think this is just like, isn't it charming? Gives it an old-timey Jack the Ripper feel, doesn't it?

I feel like... Doesn't it feel like you're just going to get stabbed at any minute? Someone's going to come out of the fog and eviscerate you and just vivisect you right in the sidewalk. Doesn't it feel like you're just going to get stabbed at any minute? Someone's going to come out of the fog and eviscerate you and just vivisect you right in the sidewalk. Doesn't it feel like that? It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. with a touch of humor, I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. a dash of sarcasm, and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell.

She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

You know, so at this point, Harvey says that the men direct him to drive to Julie's apartment in Rineyville, which is where she lives. However, once they stopped there, they told him, Harvey, that is, the men told Harvey to get out of the van and check on Julie, who apparently one of them at this point, he wasn't driving anymore. And I guess they want to see somehow. Yeah. He said that he got out and went in the van through the cargo door because she was in the back by then. Got it. He said that at this point, she's in the passenger seat. He says that she was conscious at this point.

And then they told him after he checked on her to get back into the driver's seat again and drive okay so why they went to the apartment i have no idea but there they go they said he's harvey says after he drove around some more the men then directed harvey to go back to the jerry mart yeah the original point of abduction um once they stopped he says that as soon as he put the thing in park or whatever one of the men put something like a shoe string a strong thin string around his neck and pulled him from the driver's seat into the cargo area of the van he says he lost consciousness and then he doesn't know for how long yeah but he does know that he woke up at 2 a.m right next to julie in

the van with electrical tape around her neck and making a gurgling sound that's his claim he says he removed the electrical tape turned her head to clear the airway like we said gets to the hospital by 2 15 parking garage carries her in collapses medical staff run over oh my god so that's haywire i would say yeah that's a good way to put it uh if that's his that's what he says happened that's his story that's a fucking banana story but that in kentucky in a fucking small town we've heard crazier yeah let's just put it that way this is episode 220 how many we've probably heard a hundred crazier story i'm not even kidding that blazer and manistique in the woods on fire is crazy i could so many stories where we're like no the kid who is a was a paraplegic and they just tied his feet to the four-wheeler handle but you know what i'm saying like some wild shit happens some wild shit goes on here so i guess upon arriving at the

emergency room julie has no cardiac or respiratory activity it's over and she's pronounced dead at 2 26 a.m oh my god so i guess they worked on her for 10 minutes and then pronounced her so that's you know not not very long so i mean 26 year old woman here obviously senselessly there's no whatever this is yeah she didn't kill anybody right or like you know molest anybody's kids or anything like that. So nobody's deserving of this. She wants her truck back. She wants her truck back or who knows what the, you know, whatever.

So the cause of death here is determined to be multiple blunt force head injuries and ligature strangulation. And of a cocktail of the two here. Emergency room nurse Jennifer King, she observed a small scratch on the back of Harvey's head and then dried blood on his hand and face. Otherwise, he didn't have any visible injuries. They did end up finding a small mark on his neck that was visible in pictures taken at the hospital that night. So you could see a mark on his neck that was visible in pictures taken at the hospital that night.

So you could see a mark on his neck. She said, though, the nurse said that she didn't see any marks on his neck before he was placed in a neck brace to stabilize his neck there. And a lot of times they say that they've seen collars like that make marks yeah that look like things like that so basically yeah he doesn't have a lot of marks on him here he's got a little scratch on the back of his neck if you got drug to the back of a vehicle by your fucking neck to the point of losing consciousness there should be some ligature there i would imagine some marks on a pie yeah and moving around yeah you're a grown man right and a grown man who's been in the military for 10 years it's not like he's like you know oh i you know he's it's a guy who's probably got some sort of strength sure you know he's probably in half shape you know what i mean he's just got out

of the 10 years fucking stretch in the air force right so they talk to skags obviously they want to know what the hell happened hey what's going on there chief um so he says that um you know we and they had he had told uh his friends that he'd be out a couple hours with this julie trying to help her repo a truck she told all her friends will be out a few hours with harvey trying to repo this truck so you know all that lines up uh he says quote to them quote and a lot of things went bad and julie ended up getting murdered that night that's what he said later on. The tale. Yeah.

He said, quote, the man behind Julie asked her, called her by name and wanted to know where the money was. She said she didn't know what they was talking about. That's how he talks. Didn't know what they was talking about. So, yeah, they told that's what he told the police that night. He said, quote, that 2 a.m. Quote, I woke up. Julie was gargling and I drove her to the hospital.

So he told the cops. And yeah. So the doctor said that Julie was dead when she arrived. They just tried to work on her. Obviously, she's a 26 year old. So you probably want to try to save her in the van. There was a death rattle. It's over.

It's not going well. That's that's pretty much the end the doctor this is dr kevin marble yeah um which you know i'm sure he's a wonderful doctor and i'm not going to say anything about his abilities but i feel like i could make this determination he said quote two things she was not breathing and the other thing is she had severe trauma to her head i mean not that that's funny but the way he said it is really sounds like is that how you determined that she was not alive anymore right the fact that and then that third pesky part of her heart stopped we couldn't get it all sorts of stuff going on you know what a dummy wow um so they couldn't determine her exact

time of death though they said yeah they couldn't because it was so close to it you they they couldn't determine her exact time of death though they said yeah they couldn't because it was so close to it you they they can't it's within like four hours they usually can do they got a window it's a window yeah she's in that window so it's you can't tell already she died at 1 18 p.m that doesn't work um so he told he just kept saying he told the cops that he told them i told you everything i know harvey says up to the point where i lost consciousness obviously i can't tell you any more than that and here is the dialogue from the interview that night um the police officer says to him quote why did you kill her oh boy harvey says quote i did not kill her policeman Policeman says, yes, you did. He says, no, I didn't.

Or no, I did not. Police says, tell us why. We just want to know why, Junior. By the way, they call him Junior. We just want to know why, Junior. Junior says, quote, I did not kill that girl. I did not kill her with a squirrel. I did not kill her.

Sounds like a, I don't know why it sounds like the beginning of a Dr. Seuss poem. I did not kill her with a squirrel i did not kill her sounds like a i don't know why it sounds like the beginning of dr seuss poem i did not kill her with a blue merle it's just yeah so fucking strange i did not listen i did not kill her while listening to merle it's wow i did not kill that girl i did not kill her wearing a jerry curl no even though we were at the jerry mark so police says as police say tell us why he says i did not kill that girl yeah again then police officer says there has to be a reason why and he says i did not kill that girl while he did it so yeah while i did a twirl and dreamt about traveling around the world went to Dairy Queen and got a swirl. Oh, boy.

What the fuck? I'm so nervous, I'm going to hurl. Oh, boy, man. So after they talk to him at the hospital, Harvey goes home. Yeah. He says, I didn't kill her. This is what happened. They said, yeah, you did.

And he said, no, I didn't. And they don't have any proof at this point of anything other than she's not alive anymore. So they let him go home. They obtain and execute a search warrant on the van he was driving that night. Obviously, that's, you know, that's where all the evidence would be. Yeah, it was owned by Allen's Heating and Air Conditioning, obviously, and it was parked in the hospital's parking garage. There was a significant amount of blood, according to the police here, on both the inside and outside of the van.

Okay. They collected some evidence, photographed the van, and then decided that a forensic team from Frankfurt should probably be called to examine the van. Really? As soon as you see blood. Hey, there's blood. Let's get forensics in here.

They were like, oh, we could take some pictures and poke around a bit. And they were like, oh, there's a lot of stuff. Let's just go. We should call them fellas that come in with them notebooks and things. And the guys with the cameras and bags with the they got like the seal them up real good. Like I'm using a sandwich bag. I had my sandwich that I brought into work in this earlier. So I don't know if there's crumbs in it.

That's for me. I heard they got Q-tips. Let's call them. The crumbs is for me. And then the q-tips let's call them the crumbs is for me and then the q-tips too yeah that's how it works so they end up doing that they collect some evidence they get the frankfort forensic team in there then it's covered with a tarp and taken to the elizabethtown police department where it's secured away okay so uh the investigation obviously we need an investigation here to see what the fuck's going on. Julie, her family, they obviously they have a funeral for her and they don't know. Yeah, obviously, they don't know what the fuck's going on at that point.

The one of the police officers involved said, quote, It's a complex investigation still going on. We're still tracking leads down and talking to people who may or may not have information. He says, quote, anything. He said that anything could have caused some blunt force trauma. I think some people have zeroed in on that. It's a hammer and it may be, but we're not 100% sure that right now there's just a lot of open ends to this case. So they're hiding, obviously, a bunch of info. There's just a lot of open ends to this case.

So they're hiding, obviously, a bunch of info. Anytime you read about a story of a murder and they talk about it and it's before an arrest is made, they're not telling you shit. They don't want to. They're telling you nothing. They're holding back anything that's a detail. That's compromised so much. No, like we were talking about in one of our bonus episodes a couple weeks ago with the Night Stalker. Right.

They're not going to tell you about the shoes. They're not going to tell you about all these different little things that nobody else knew about. The drawings on the wall. Pipe down. Well, yeah. She didn't know. No, she didn't know. She thought she was doing the right thing.

They're like, oh, we forgot. Oh, we should have told her that. Yeah. There goes a real life. Oh, damn it. Fuck. Thanks, guys. So, yeah.

So, they're saying a lot of open ends. Yeah. So, obviously, basically, there's two people the police are going we got to talk to here one harvey skags because he's there and doesn't seem as injured as he should be and two julie's husband probably should be talked about here since they've been trying to repossess his truck and all this shit and apparently you know if what harvey's saying is true true has something to do with her husband. So they don't know. Is it guys who her husband owes money to? Is it her husband trying to throw people off the scent with that sort of thing?

Hang on to the truck. Who knows what's going on? So basically, they go to Julie's husband's house the day after the murder or a few days after the murder. julie's husband's house the day after the murder uh or a few days after the murder and they said they quote searched that residence took photographs of of him and collected evidence there they showed a handgun they end up uh end up confiscating a handgun that appeared to have blood on it which that's you know how many you have guns i got a lot of them none of them got blood i was gonna say how many of them have blood on them? Oh, they're so clean. Do you just keep. No.

Not a lot. I just bleed on my guns sometimes and just, you know, I don't know. I just like doing it. The thing about guns is they're not real sharp. So you can't really cut your hand while cleaning it. It's more difficult. That's one thing. The other part is the point of the whole reason to clean it is to not have blood on it but you know

if he hunts with this gun he might have shot something and then put it back and been a lazy gunner yeah and then just not clean who knows that could be chicken blood that's who knows there you go um now they take the gun as evidence because harvey said the attackers had a handgun yeah this all fits um now they uh they're obviously interested in the husband here and um they said when julie phoned her friend that she was going to stay at her house davis there at 9 30 that she was saying that that that was at that point she's alive 9 30 we know that she's alive at 9 30 we know she's with harvey yeah so those things are facts now uh julie julie's husband i mean here her ex ex-boyd yep and ex-boyd's new girlfriend have just arrived home give the

truck back you have a girlfriend yeah let her drive her truck what are you doing you kicked out the wife and moved in the goddamn give the god yeah i'm sorry get No, get a truck from this one if you need a truck from your girlfriend. I don't know. Figure it out, sir. Yeah, so anyway, they had just arrived home at that point, according to the boyfriend, or according to the ex's girlfriend. She said that the two spent the rest of the evening making jello shots and watching TV. Class.

All class. Very classy. Wow. of the evening making jello shots and watching tv class all class very classy wow uh she you have a house right how old are you sir once you have a house you're too old to make jello shots if you have a kitchen to make them in you're too old to make them that's the fucked up part about them it's a catch-22 it's a catch-22 if you're past undergrad and college no more jello shots and i'm not talking about if you even went no no the age 22 22 that's it no more of those if you've ever been married that immediately cuts it out yeah you're done at that point no more i don't care when you get married if your parents sign off you know whatever you're fucking it's over you live in utah it doesn't matter too Too old. So she said, quote, we stayed home that night.

Okay. Just the two of us with jello shots. Two of us who watched Matlock and did jello shots. I don't know what they're watching. That is a bizarre night. Yeah, I figured the oldest activity and mix it with something that 16-year-olds should be doing. That's what we do, basically. It's a very strange night they've had.

Spring break in May. Woo! So they do testing, and it's revealed that there actually isn't blood on the gun. What is it? Just some other schmutz. Some red Jell-O. Some schmutz. It's a cherry.

We got our Jell-O shots on it. Yeah. Oh, man. I spilled it. You know how you play with your guns when you've been doing jello shots. So basically, the lead investigator here or the prosecutor eventually says the idea that is that there is simply no evidence linking him to the scene in any manner. They don't have any evidence that he was at this, that X-boy was in this van at this point so that's you know kind of a dead-end investigation wise if he has an alibi and there's no physical evidence they're like okay

um so they talk to skags again here and he says quote they yanked me backwards out of the seat he tells him that um keeps telling him the same thing woke Woke up at two. Yeah. Julie's there. Electrical tape drove her in, collapsed, blah, blah, blah. Same story. Now, they don't know. They've never recovered any kind of weapon for the murder. Nothing like that. No DNA was found under Julie's nails. What?

None. None. So that shows that it wasn't an attack of something that she could fight off or she would have DNA under her goddamn nails. She doesn't seem like the type that would be like, just kill me. Right. She seems like she's fighting. She's going after a truck, for Christ's sake. She's a fighter.

She's fighting. She's out at 11 or 10 o'clock at night looking for a truck. Like, she's a go-getter is what I'm saying. I think if you try to attack her, she's probably going to try to claw your eyes out, I would think. So nothing under there. So that kind of, of i mean like an attack that she didn't he said they never she never tried to block the blows that was his original story um that lines up with that and harvey's dna is not found on her purse at all which was right uh i guess messed with uh rifled somebody went through it yeah and or his dna was not also found on any of the potential weapons in the van anything that could be used to

cause blunt force trauma there's his dna he never touched any of it and this is his car this is just a work van but he hasn't touched everything and yeah he didn't wasn't working in it what a lazy fuck let's just say let him take one home. I ain't working. Yeah. Shit. Now, the blood in the van is another weird thing here. There's no indication.

The lead, the prosecutor says, quote, there was no indication, for example, that she was beaten inside the van. Oh, he says. He said there was blood inside the van and on the passenger seat as said but there was a significant amount of blood on the exterior of the van too yeah uh he said that the blood spatter proves that julie was killed outside of the van okay which again harvey's story is everything happened inside last no well he said last I saw I got. She was conscious. I went unconscious. And then who knows from that from the time he says he went unconscious to woke up.

Anything. There was electrical tape involved. So anything could happen according to his story here. Investigators said the blood spatter, like was one bloody fingerprint on the outside of the van, which did not match Harvey and came back as inconclusive for Julie as well. Okay. Okay. And that's a bloody fingerprint. So that's not somebody who used the HVAC van earlier that day to fix somebody's shit.

But let's make sure we do point out inconclusive does not mean not hers. Exactly. we do point out inconclusive does not mean not hers exactly um and this is the uh the automated and fingerprint identification system guy paul dorman he says that uh quote i received some exemplar prints of the victim and because of the quality of those prints i was not able to make a positive identity or even be able to say that they weren't her prince so he has literally has no clue about it's not like we think it's her prince but it's not up to a legal standard he's i have no fucking idea about if this is her prince or not uh there's no indication of anyone else's fingerprints that were tested only harvey and julie is all the only ones they look for in the investigation notes um and the prosecutor says something that people want

that i would like to have everything answered but you don't get that because people uh are who they are that's very cryptic something that i want that i would like to have everything answered but you don't get that because people are who they are they do things for strange reasons for no reason and for terrible reasons that's yankees That's like proper speaking Yankees with jerry curls. That's confusing shit. So everybody talks very confused. Even the town motto, it's all too wordy. You guys really need to concise it up.

They have a lot of time just to linger. There's a lot of confusing Dr. Seuss shit happening here. Big time. So January the 4th here, a team of lab analysts and photographers from the state arrived to examine and document the van. This is like the really go over to the fine-tooth comb. They take blood swabs for DNA, dusted for fingerprints. That's where they got all that collected trace evidence and everything like that. They took 12 hours with the van, basically. and they came up with all those results that we just talked about um so they contacted once they had the van and did all this they contacted alan's

heating and air conditioning yeah we do have your van you might want to know that so the company told them that they needed the van back they said we know we it's a small company we need the fucking van back to do our business we're like losing money company we need the fucking van back to do our business we're like losing money here i'm sure you are can we have our van back and they said sure they gave them the van back january 5th the next day no they gave them the van back a less than a week after a woman was fucking killed in it holy shit now that's not good because that evidence not only you know it's all ruined who knows but isn't the defense gonna want to look at stuff too like you need but i mean whatever so they

give it back january 5th i don't know what the procedure is normally honestly for how quickly they give a van back quick but they say it's at the investigation's discretion i guess is the law because otherwise i mean i assume you could hold it forever if you wanted to it's it's evidence in a murder investigation sorry Alan's heating and air conditioning I would want that in a in a climate controlled environment until this shit's over oh no they're gonna wipe it they're gonna clean it and then take it out they're not gonna pull up to somebody's

house to fix their goddamn heat pump on it with blood spatter on the side kind of business do you guys run yeah so about January 7th or so yeah uh harvey proposes to his girlfriend okay harvey's got a girlfriend and she accepts it so um friends had told friends told investigators investigators started asking questions about that because they're just looking at him and friends said that he's been planning to propose for months

he's been talking about it and he's been whatever working up to it so um shortly after that police searched their home and they took the ring he proposed with as evidence here which was on his fiance's pinky finger at the time that's all it fit on the yeah she said quote it wouldn't fit over my knuckle on my ring finger okay so it's you know too small which happens if you don't know your yeah if you're going to marry someone you should know their ring size by then that's a good idea always go too big never go too small well you don't know them well enough if you don't know things like that maybe to get married that's what i'm saying but sizing is so much easier to go from big to small uh it's a little more chop a piece out right otherwise they have to put some in right and that's somebody else's ring it's some other piece of something now yeah now they say that the the investigators say that the cut of the they call it a duchess

cut which is a cut of the diamond and they say it's the same cut as boyd's engagement ring okay so they say this is one of the three rings missing from julie when she arrived at the hospital oh that's not good she's got this she's got a wedding band and then another ring that are all missing. They think that this is Julie's ring. That's what they're saying. They say that she had a decorative ring and a wedding band that they haven't found, but they said that this is the ring. We found it.

So they arrest Harvey on January 15th, 2005. They arrest him because they saw a ring that they thought was julie's on the ring finger yeah basically so they had an it was like the family thought this is what it looked like and everybody the cops thought it was what it looked like so there we go that's enough to uh do that the the state obviously or the commonwealth in this case their theory is that harvey fabricated everything yeah he just wanted to get proposed made two yeah that's it made made up the two guys and robbed julie and killed her because he needed the money yeah and uh you know thought it'd be a good idea and then the ring was a bonus basically i've wanted to propose i need to get engaged there

it is there you go that's the that's their case uh they say that their case is based on blood uh blood pattern evidence in the van evidence that the engagement ring that he gave his fiancee was the same ring that he took off julie's finger obviously and they said inconsistent stories that harvey told the police and other people about the the whole night and the evidence they said that harvey told the police and other people about the the whole night and the evidence they said that harvey was having financial problems at the time of the murder couldn't afford a ring couldn't afford a ring basically so this is their theory this is their theory now people murder so they can get engaged i mean it is kentucky it is i mean well let's not say crazy

that's a lot that's a lot so what if that goes bad? I killed for you. Yeah. Well, to me, I'm just saying right off the top of my head, the truck is probably worth more than the ring. Right. You know what I'm saying? So if the theory is whoever's having financial problems and well, one guy needs a truck real bad and you're trying to take it.

So I think that'd be an equal amount of suspicion is all I'm saying. So now the mother here, Debbie White is her name, by the way, the mother of Julie. She is, you know, obviously wants to know what the hell is going on here because the family is kind of left in the dark. I mean, like they talk to him, but then they don't know. The police don't know what any motive or anything like that, which isn't part of proving a crime, by the way. don't know what any motive or anything like that which isn't part of proving a crime by the way on you know that's the hardest people think it is whereas in real life homicide cops go i don't give a shit why he killed that one i mean it kind of helps to build the story but other than that who gives a fuck they you know it's fun to sit around with them and keep asking him why he's

never going to tell us at the end they don't give a shit they want to know you know who and where that's it that why is that can That's just fodder for later. They don't care. But if you're a family member, no. That's very important. The most important. That's all of it. Why?

I already know who. Why would you do that for? Exactly. So the mother here, Debbie White, Julie's mother, she says, what motivated him to brutally kill our daughter like this for a person to do this kind of thing? That's a very good question. She's white or ms white uh she says that her daughter uh was the uh you know she's a she was a good young woman and a woman of faith and all this sort of thing so you know she says quote i believe she's in heaven and she doesn't have to worry about this at all and she might even be saying mom it's over just move on so she's

saying her daughter's a very kind person and forgiving and you know this sounds awful that's heartbreaking so harvey is arrested his bail is set at one million dollars which he obviously can't pay if they thought he needed to steal a you know an engagement ring he's probably not doing that he sits in jail there's 22 months between arrest and trial oh which is a that's a lot it's almost two years they can do that oh yeah absolutely they it's it's crazy man yeah there was because there's motions i mean yeah he's been charged so yeah well the defense is filing pre-trial shit too and it goes back and forth it can go a long time uh to get bail that's what happens yep 17 of the months were in solitary

confinement because he tried to kill himself because he's a dick yeah botched suicide attempt 17 months in solitary okay which i would assume would make you want to kill yourself 10 times more sure um so that's fucking bad so anyway um harvey now says at this point we go by his version or we'll listen to his version right now. He says that he was threatened with the death penalty when he was first arrested. They said they're going to give him the death penalty. He said over time though, the district attorney kept making him better and better offers on a deal, which makes perfect sense because I don't know what evidence you really have

here other than he said he was there. They don't have anything else other than, well, he was the only one that we know was there. That's really all they have. So he said that he kept saying he wouldn't admit to something that he didn't do. That was his answer all the time, according to him. We don't know what the behind the scenes were. This is what he says. So he said right before the trial, Harvey says, the D.A., the district attorney, made him one final offer.

They said admit to it and plead to an accidental murder in the act of a robbery and we'll let you plead to it and we'll give you five years. And you've served 22 months. Basically, you'll walk with time served. You've been here almost two. You've got to do whatever basically you'll get time served which isn't really true because i think that would be a minimum of 85 of your time so but by the end of the trial it kind of would be time served i guess if you and that either way to me is a da going to your guy saying i don't have shit uh yeah let's

go with this and we don't know if that happened. This is what Harvey says is like I said, and he said that he wouldn't admit to a crime he didn't commit and he's happy to go to court with it. That's Harvey's version here. So at trial here, first of all, pretrial skags here files a motion to get the D.A. Christopher Shaw off of the case, basically, from prosecuting him. The motion is based on the fact that Shaw's wife, Deborah, is also an attorney, and she represented Skaggs' ex-wife, Jessica, in seeking to have custody of their daughter modified from joint to sole custody after Skaggs was charged with murder.

So, I'm sorry the prosecutor can't they can charge people with murder fine charge someone with murder but then your wife can't make money on that person's ex-wife to then try to get that can't that's a definite conflict of interest you literally money came into your household yeah because this guy got put in jail right i get that wasn't your motivation for arresting him, but just don't even make it look like that. It's a murder trial. Give that to the next guy. Right?

Any this much impropriety, even if it's just a glimpse, a shadow, you don't want it to look like that in a murder trial. So a hearing is held on this thing which seems like it should be at the hearing it's learned that deborah shaw visited harvey at the harden county this is the prosecutor's wife visited him at the jail while he was awaiting trial to have him sign an agreed order regarding custody and visitation of his daughter um now, Harvey says that when Shaw approached him, he thought she was somebody else. He didn't think that that's who she was, the lawyer for his wife.

So he said that he, quote, told her some things regarding the case. Oh, no. However, when he started talking, the lawyer, Deborah, stopped him and told him who she was. Hey, I'm not. Hey, my husband hates you.

Yeah. Hey, well, my husband's literally job is to put you on death row. They're not going for the death penalty, by the way, and told him why she was there. At that point, he presented him with the agreed order and blah, blah, blah. And he said that, yeah, they didn't discuss anything more than that. But, you know, that's still a lot. That's why you don't even have. It's why your wife shouldn't just ever represent or anybody in your family you know that seems a little crazy um now there is a statute for this quote a lawyer related to another lawyer

as parent child sibling or spouse shall not represent a client in a representation directly adverse to a person who the lawyer knows is represented by the other lawyer, except upon consent by the client and after consultation regarding the relationship. That seems to not have happened here at all. What the law says after hearing that the trial court denies the motion to have this guy disqualified and said, no, no, you're perfectly fine to keep prosecuting. He doesn't end up being the lead prosecutor, but that doesn't matter. He's at the table.

So Skaggs didn't specify what information he conveyed in specific to Deborah Shaw at the jail, but he did say that the remarks that was brief because she did cut him off and say, hey, oh, hey, I'm... Yeah, don't tell me any more about that. First of all, I'm your ex-wife's lawyer and I'm the prosecutor's wife. So, you it's weird so i'm to kentucky this is kentucky though uh oh by the way did i mention he's also my cousin right and you are too did i mention that

we're all related hey no more thanksgiving for us sorry kentucky but this is some crazy shit it's not all of you no just what's happening here so anyway he also harvey wants a missing evidence instruction okay that's what he's asking the judge to do here he uh moves to exclude the evidence regarding the van because the evidence has been essentially destroyed by giving the van back to the ac company uh before they hadn't before the defense had an opportunity to conduct their own independent examination of the van back to the ac company uh before they hadn't before the defense had an opportunity to conduct their own independent examination of the van all they have is the records from the police investigation uh yeah yeah an evidentiary hearing is held on this motion

all of this goes um and they say uh no we're not doing that they deny that order as well um they said there was no bad faith on the part of the police in giving the van back. They're just trying to have a company not go out of business because they needed a van. That's the way it goes. So at the hearing here, the detective, he says that the property is returned to an owner on a case-by-case basis. And they said that they were finished with the van and they didn't want to hurt this company anymore you know hey you know yeah it's smelt down i don't hurt this guy's company so uh no quote there was no evidence of any intention on the part of the police to deprive the defendant and of an opportunity to examine the van that's what the judge says so they deny that uh now the

jury here also they talk about um basically the Commonwealth here, the state files a motion requesting that the jury be allowed to go on field trips to view shit here, like in the OJ case, which I always find that a trip when the jury's like on a field trip. They're just in it. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to OJ's house today. It's just the weirdest thing. So they file a motion here to go see the van that he was driving, even though it's just the weirdest thing so they file a motion here to uh go see the van that he was

driving even though it's two years later it's been doing it's done 100 ac jobs since then right there's some guy changing out a train right now with it yeah and we're gonna go look at that it's in the shop but you can see it they argued that the pictures of the van would not be an adequate substitute for seeing the van in person so you could get the actual dimensions where the doors are how much room people have which that makes sense it's actually a good point and uh the the initial order allowed the viewing of the sites in the case uh the hospital parking garage hospital er entrance and the parking lot of the jerry mart uh but they said that at first they said they didn't know about the van and then they said okay share the, share the van. So that's what they did. At first, they were like, what was it called?

Like reserved judgment on the van for another time here. They said that it's necessary for the jury to see inside of the van in person to appreciate its dimensions and determining whether Boyd could have been killed in the manner alleged by Skaggs. manner alleged by skags um the defense said that because the van had been cleaned up and used for heating and ac work for two years it was materially altered from its condition on the night of the murder as far as where things are all that shit they said that the court ruled that uh so long as everything was removed from the van except built-in features it would allow the jury to view the van for the purpose of seeing its dimensions but there was stuff in the van that night, which is weird. The court also told the jury, quote, the van is not in the same condition that it's been described in this case. That's all they did there.

So that's what it was. They said that this is at the discretion of the court. That's basically what it is. It's a discretion call. what it is um it's a discretion call so edward taylor who's a forensic specialist for the state here he testifies to the blood spatter patterns found on the van uh one of his conclusions was and this is critical to the state's whole theory of the case that julie was obviously killed on the outside of the van given the configuration and dimensions of the inside of the van right so it would have been harder.

Yeah, the blood patterns were not consistent with a person being beaten to death inside the van. He says that if a person had been struck with a weapon in the van, there would have been more cast-off blood spatter patterns on various areas inside the van. A couple of dents in the roof from bringing it back. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of collateral damage here. You ever tried to swing anything in a van? I haven't spent much time in a van that's why you haven't i'd be crouched down i have a feeling because it's about what four foot you would fucking roof yeah i would think so so they said view from viewing the photographs of the van it was difficult to figure out the dimensions and so uh yeah they sent them there i'm trying to

figure out how a guy with that's right-handed punches a woman in the passenger seat in the face i guess um yeah if you were behind the driver you could that's still not easy it's not a great angle i'll tell you that much you'd be much better off with a left yeah um but i mean i don't know who knows what's going on here it's pretty unbelievable yeah that's that part there's a lot of inconsistencies to harvey story here that darn you know none of it adds up if you get choked into unconsciousness i want i want pretty good ligature marks around your fucking neck um yeah so the ring becomes a huge point of contention and this is the thing that makes me a little uneasy here um during the trial they both sides present experts here that give completely different testimonies um saying that it was this ring um now both white uh who is the mother uh

julie's mother and julie's husband say it was her engagement ring taking a look at it harvey says no it's not i fucking bought it at a pawn shop that's where i got this goddamn ring now one thing here uh they said that the night he brought the one this is a fact the night he brought her to the hospital he definitely did not have the ring on him because they searched him thoroughly and he had no fucking ring on him so i don't know if he stashed it somewhere in their theory or what um so uh now they said quote this is the prosecutor quote we don't know exactly what happened to julie boyd because no one was there to witness it they said that her wedding band and other decorative ring

have never been found but this is her ring now the defense is a guy uh this is fred the diamond guy all right this is his name uh fred keuler uh c-u-e-l-l-e-r he's a legit diamond expert he's on like you know news shows all the time if they have anything like that he's the guy they go to he's a diamond guy he's the founder and president of diamond cutters international according to the website one of the world's top diamond experts as well as a three-time guinness book record holder in jewelry design does appearances on news shows knows his diamond shit basically he's known throughout the industry as fred the diamond guy okay okay now they the defense calls him to testify for them yeah uh so he goes down

there first of all this guy in in kentucky would have been great i'm sure he's a character he's walking down the street hey yeah you're looking to get a bigger. I'm sure he's a character. He's walking down the street. Hey, yeah. Looking to get a bigger diamond. Yeah. Good price. So you got there just walking up to people with a loop. That's fake. Get the fuck out of here.

Sends them on their way. Well, the guys from Pawn Stars busy. It's a fugazi. Get the fuck out of here. So he anyway, this guy, he says that, quote, quote as a diamond expert my task was to educate the jury about a mass-produced diamond called the duchess cut the prosecutor said it was a rare cut and he says it's far from rare yeah yeah he says it's mass-produced that's how much it's not rare he said it was sold heavily in the 1990s at rare places like JCPenney.

Exotic. Exotic places like Service Merchandise. Very exotic. The exoticness of Service Merchandise. K Jeweler. Once again, very exotic. Exclusive. Zalesales all of your better mall jewelry outlets basically anything that's in a mall it's so rare and jb robinson which is

yeah just a fucking uh like a uh department store like a like a pennies or something yeah that's exactly what it is yeah so that those those places. It's now Macy's. It's a nice diamond that you can get in the mall. Right. He bought a Macy's diamond. When you're 21. And it's so rare. Yeah.

When you're 20, you're 21. You're not buying some rare ring for your fiance because you're only going to be able to afford the nicest thing you can get. Right. And that's fine. So the prosecutor, he says that their whole case is that Harvey killed Julie in order to obtain what he called a rare.42 carat modified marquee-shaped diamond solitaire. Now, diamond guy says the ring's about $400 it sells for in the store. It's not rare.

It's in the mall, and it's $400. Just a shitload of them. Yeah. It's not rare. It's in the mall and it's 400 bucks. Just get a load of them. Literally, it's very acquirable. Like, it's a thing. Also, he says that he examined this diamond and he said this diamond didn't weigh the same. Julie's diamond didn't weigh the same amount, judging by the receipt that the ex-husband has about the ring. He says that that's not the same diamond. This diamond didn't weigh as much as the one that the fiance the ex-husband has about the ring he says that that's not the same diamond this diamond didn't weigh as much as the one that harvey's girlfriend had the lighter

one which is heavier so you know i mean that's a pretty big difference uh also they said uh that there was no way that they could prove they were the same ring he says the original receipt of julie's ring showed it had been purchased from a store named Leroy's Jeweler, while the ring and evidence had a fucking stamp on it that said it was sold by J.B. Robinson on the inside of it. So unbelievable. Totally different place than the receipt. So Harvey. Now, we don't know. I don't know if Leroy's Jeweler sell secondhand shit and somebody sold a J.B. Robinson ring and that guy bought that's possible.

And the other part is that and not to fault anybody that says that it is the ring. Have you ever looked at a point to eight versus a point three? I don't fucking know. I don't fucking know. You have to get a guy who calls himself a diamond guy and to measure it because I don't know. One tenth of a carat. I can't fucking tell who can.

No. Who could real desperate housewives of whatever fucking city those people they know they know exactly by the eyeball they get a loop right yeah giselle from the potomac so i'm gonna call you on your shit here that's a 2.8 not a 3.2 listen then there'd be the talking head of her going trying to pull off that bullshit with some diamonds. I know it's three carats. I know it's two point seven. I'm not.

I know that shit. So I love that show. That's fucking great. So anyway, Harvey says that he bought the engagement ring from a pawn shop. Now, the pawn shop says they remember Harvey in the store around that time buying something, but they don't give out receipts for cash purchases. So bought it with cash. They don't have a receipt, but he wasn't there at that point buying something.

We're trying to not pay taxes on this shit. Yeah. Basically, let's keep it a little willy nilly. 200. Let's say 100 on the taxes. Why don't we? So he is charged, by by the way going to the verdict here with uh murder and first degree robbery oh boy for the ring yeah well these together pretty

big shit here uh verdict comes back and they find him guilty of of murder and first degree robbery really yeah i don't know how you'd find him guilty of the first degree robbery based on the diamond testimony and then they only threw the robbery in as an aggravator on the murder, right? Well, he also stole the ring. No, no, just more years. But, I mean, it runs concurrent either way. They know for sure that that shit didn't get stolen from there because it's a different goddamn ring. But the prosecution insists that it's the same ring.

Oh, boy. Even though the one guy says, I weighed it, and it's not even the same size diamond. Anyway, so that guy says that it's not the same size diamond. Anyway, so that guy says he absolutely that's absolutely not the same fucking diamond. Now, October 2006 sentencing comes around. Yeah. And yeah, they said this is Julie's mother. Sure. Ms. White here.

She says that, quote, you do want to tell them who she was talking about when she had to testify at the sentencing. Let me tell you who she was. She was a beautiful, vibrant woman. So she got to say her say, which is good. Now, the jury could have elected any sentence ranging from 20 to 50 years in prison to life without parole. Yeah, basically. So, you know, it's there's a big window here and what they can sentence him to uh he is sentenced to you sir yeah may fuck off life in prison no parole uh with no parole for 25 years okay 25 years also uh fuck off again 20 years for robbery

for stealing the ring concurrent concurrentcurrent? Concurrent. Okay. Now, that's the law. So, he had 25. 25 to life. 25 to life, and yeah, and there's that. So, Julie's mom, Ms. White, said, quote, I would have liked to have seen life without parole. She says that it's been extremely difficult. The times we did look at him, he didn't have much reaction, and that's hard to take when someone's sitting there with literally no emotion at all which i mean i can imagine that but also those lawyers tell them yeah you ever seen oj yeah here's a fucking halcyon sit there

they'll give you something strong and tell you to chill out don't say shit don't move yeah don't do anything so but i mean as a family member yeah that's frustrating i would imagine so uh debbie says that she was quote she was beaten in such a brutal, violent way for this ring. I have a problem with that. We don't know what happened to Julie. We don't know where she was killed and we don't have the murder weapon. Julie's dad, Bill White, says that the conviction brings little comfort, not much.

He said there's no closure at all. And actually, as time goes on on the hurt only gets deeper yeah which few people ever say that and i that's true for a lot of people you know and few people i think ever admit that they all have to say well i mean it gets better you start thinking about this guy's like it doesn't get better where would she be today yeah and it's so much worse it sucks yeah working some it and probably doing pretty well yeah uh debbie uh got a chance to address also she'll also get a chance to talk in the formal sentencing when the judge decides whether the jury's out of their mind or whether they the judge just goes along with this with the jury's recommendation here. She said that she wants to hear why it happened from him and quote an acknowledgement of.

Yes, I did do this and I'm sorry. That's what the mother would like here. Now she starts a thing based on this. It's a pretty cool thing. It's called Julie's baskets. And she said that this is Debbie white. She says that quote the first day the police came to the door. I just remember looking out the back of the window and thinking God don't let me waste this.

She said she remembers her daughter's memorial and people lining up to give their condolences she said quote I just need someone to come up and tell me that I can survive this that I can live through this and that's one of the many reasons why I do this workshop and she also does a workshop that she says she's dedicated her life to teaching those going through the worst days that they'll survive and thrive she's trying to help people get through horrible, traumatic situations. She said there's so much loss and so many people that are looking for help. And it started, it's called One Grief. It started out as One Grief Workshop with Southeast Christian Church and turned into

two and then three a year. And she said now she's been holding them for 14 years. She said this was as of like last year. She said they give the tragedy that we went through a purpose and a reason. And I believe it does help those who are grieving. She said that she'll keep Julie's memory alive by continuing Julie's baskets, which are care packages to help out women going through hard divorces. Oh, that's rad. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's really awesome.

People, that's that's what about the guys doing it to help help me yeah there's a lot of dudes that go through it too that yeah i have it pretty rough yeah but listen they're not scared yeah that's all it is for their life yeah there's a lot of dudes that are like can i get some like noodles i'd like to eat netflix this month uh better air mattress yeah so uh she said well many women have helped have found help here this is the julie's basket program it's called um the baskets are available uh to any women in the community who are in need they said you can find out about them by calling a person named diane doyle at the southeast christian church yep uh two five three eighty four hundred i don't know what the area code i think i gave the area code you did there you go i'm gonna call those together money to send some baskets out

they're still doing that yeah that's awesome that's a good cause to donate to it sounds like um i wish it wasn't a church but same thing i do i do i do like it behind it i don't think they're giving away bibles i think it's just good shit and the nice works this is the type of shit you want church yeah that's the thing but if they start slipping some fucking pamphlets in there then we got some problems then you got problems that's gonna be my first yes yeah this is what you want the baskets yeah yeah pamphlets no all right great there you go exactly here's a check send one in my name yeah yeah don't send it don't send a jesus basket in my name though send your name fine but not mine uh one reason i wanted to do that and chose to do that was because

it was julie's idea this basket thing julie was going through a divorce before she died he said and the baskets could be a way to help other women so she was thinking about other people she also says to be able to give them something to give them comfort right away to give them direction was really positive so that's nice they also work toward a law change. Basically, the law there was this is it says several people were allowed to testify during sentencing on his behalf for mitigating circumstances. But only Debbie White was allowed to testify on behalf of her daughter because Kentucky law allowed only the victim to testify on behalf of the prosecution in this sort of situation. behalf of the prosecution in this sort of situation so she worked closely with a state senator there to get the law changed to allow family of the victim to testify as well now um yeah the governor signed it into law they said with the trial it was a state senator okay with the trial of our daughter you know you try to make something good come out of something bad

and you know it was really hard to have a trial for the murder of your daughter and then not be allowed to have family members speak on their behalf which yeah that's true but they that's that's true i mean i get that at the sentencing yeah it's hard though i don't know law wise it seems like it's seems like the jury aren't the jury are regular people yeah so i it's hard emotionally for them to give sentences and then to add more emotion to them it's hard i think but i i can understand the family would definitely want to be able to speak their piece i totally get it and i think it's probably a good idea now on appeals obviously he appeals he says that he was skags was prejudiced and given and denied due process by the court's failure to exclude the uh evidence or give a missing evidence instruction regarding the van.

Like, hey, he didn't get to fucking look it over. They said that, yeah, it's... There are so many problems with this. This is going to be bad. Yeah, he said that there's, you know, all this shit. Second, the due process clause is implicated only when the failure to preserve or collect the missing evidence was intentional. That's the law, though. It's only when it's intentional yeah if it's an accident you can fuck yourself and tough luck on your part enjoy prison that's literally the law so that's a fucked

law yeah it says it means that the absent of some degree of quote bad faith is basically then the defendant is not entitled to anything even a jury instruction how do you prove that exactly like they intentionally that we're gonna keep that van like they'd have to literally have a guy on camera saying that so or we're gonna give it back so you can't look at it right which is crazy through the car wash yeah we're gonna put it through now i want to just drive it roll the windows down go i ain't doing it by hand so also the prosecutor he appeals on the fact that he said the prosecutor shouldn't have been prosecuting this case because his goddamn wife is representing my fucking ex-wife and i blurted shit out to her and it's just too much um it's conflict of interest um she was

called as a matter of fact the the prosecutors oh i'm sorry the the um the harvey's ex-wife, Jessica, was called by the Commonwealth as a witness of the case here. And just to kind of show that she was married to him and try to establish something here to anyway. So also the circumstantial evidence instruction that he said they didn't get. His argument is that the trial court's refusal to instruct the jury on circumstantial evidence denied him due process of law. He says that he requested the following instruction. No defendant may be convicted on circumstantial evidence if the circumstantial evidence is as is as consistent with innocence as it is with guilt. Basically, which that's another way of saying beyond, you know, reasonable doubt, I feel like. But the they objected and the trial

court ruled that uh basically we're not going to do that so they uh affirm the decision yeah and that's two appeals and he's in prison still um to this day he continues to claim his innocence really um yeah from from uh you know from jail. He says, quote, I did not kill her. I did not kill her. No, I'm not going to do it. I did not kill her. I am sure. Oh, my God. They didn't want to look at anybody else. They didn't care about anybody else. is white here julie's mom said you know i don't know if the justice system always investigates everything as thoroughly as they could uh she said there was things that were never found out about the death and there's quote always been questions on exactly what happened in her mind even um another weird thing here this is very odd in red dead redemption yeah okay the video game cowboy game the cowboy game uh what there's a character in it called Harvey Skaggs. Oh, my God.

That's right. Harvey's seen during the mission Justice in Pike's Basin, which he is among the ranchers being held captive by the Bollard Twins gang. Yeah. Along with Marshal Lee Johnson and his deputies. Yes. John Marston and everybody are able to rescue their captives and their stolen cattle. Now, I want to show you something, Jimmy.

Please come over here and look at the screen. That is Harvey's mugshot. Harvey Skaggs in prison. Okay. Our Harvey. The show's episode 220. Harvey. He has very kind eyes.

I'm going to show you the character from Red Dead. Yeah. Holy shit. You have to be kidding. It's him. It's for sure him. Holy shit. You have to be kidding. It's him. It's for sure him. Right? Who makes this?

Go back. Who made the game? Rockstar. Yeah, but who? Rockstar didn't make it. Somebody at Rockstar had to, right? But I guess they use this Hediz on several different characters. I'm sure it is.

But I mean, it looks like him. Yeah, that's fucking him. I mean, the eyes. The mustache. Everything. Even the face he's making. It's wild. It's crazy.

So I don't know. Wow. They should just put the fucking prison number in front of his chest. Why not? It's certainly him. What's going on here? So Harvey here is still, he's in prison. And we have one more little thing I got to talk about here with the diamond guy is going

to come back here. Oh, no. So. Does he have a video game too? He's got. Yes, it's Fred's Diamond Hunt. little thing i gotta talk about here with the diamond guy's gonna come back here oh no um so uh you have a video game too he's got yes it's it's uh it's fred's diamond hunt where you guess between a 0.4 and a 0.42 carat ring so uh he's an active inmate at this point here he is uh doc number 204 972 harvey is life without parole after 25 years is a medium security right now or medium classification i should say it's i'm sure it's maximum security yeah uh southeastern state correctional complex uh is at this point 47 years old and uh i guess he uh his earliest parole eligibility date is uh january 5th 2030 okay so there's that going on that's hard to happen right i i can't see it

can once he's convicted i feel like he's done down there no matter what so fred the diamond guy yeah this is his statement he has he puts something out like last year on his site the diamond cutters international site from him saying that harvey is innocent and this is ridiculous he's like if their whole case is the ring yeah it's not the same ring like i it's not a matter of well i mean no he's like i know it's not the same ring so this is bullshit if that's the case he says this is a quote from his website quote you see harvey believed in his country oh oh boy this is a little much there fred uh he believed in the justice system. If my country sends me to war, it must be a just war.

If a man gets accused of doing something he did not do, he gets his day in court. An innocent man has nothing to worry about. Oh, boy. And then he says that, yeah, he was sentenced there. He said that he was sentenced all this time for a ring that they couldn't prove belonged to Julie. He says Harvey will be 77 years old before he'll be let out of prison, which I don't think that's true. That's if he did the maximum. If he does all of it.

Which I don't think so. He says, quote, he could have been free if he told one lie. He couldn't do it. It wasn't in his character. Now he might spend the rest of his life defending the truth. Oh, if he would have just said I did it yeah took the five years took the five years that he said but we don't even know that's true i don't know that that's true he said every year 10 000 people are convicted of crimes they did not commit harvey's is just another one to add to the list

would you give up your life for the truth how many harvey's is it going to take before we realize the system is broken oh boy it's a little much now somewhere in between is it going to take before we realize the system is broken? Oh, boy. It's a little much now. Somewhere in between is it. It's going hard. Yeah. So let's give Julie's mom another notice here. What is Julie? Sort of her of the cherry on top, I feel like.

I just feel like, well, I can't let that be the last statement. So she says, and we're not even talking about guilt, innocence, any of that shit. She just says that she feels like she's created a lot of good from a horrible situation. And she says, one of our fears is that people will forget our children. And so I don't want anyone to ever forget who she was, which is great. She has the grief recovery workshop as well. Nine week video based class incorporates group discussion, recovery hints and light homework to help people find ways to cope with grief. She's doing that.

If you're grieving the loss of a loved one and you feel like no one understands what you're going through and you don't know how you're going to navigate this grief, the class will help you find a way to channel your grief. That's what she says. She says you think nobody else is going through what you're going through. Nobody else is feeling the same thing or suffering the way you are. When you get in the group and hear other people share their stories, all of a sudden you realize you're not going crazy and that this is normal yeah which this seems yeah this seems like a really cool thing she's doing here isn't it wild when you get like-minded

people together and you all start commiserating on holy shit you hate that too i'm that crazy she said that she uh some people thought that she said she thought maybe closure would come but she says quote i hate the word closure yeah there is no closure after the trial people were like uh you uh you won but i didn't win anything how can you win your daughter's gone yeah i don't know what difference does that make that's well my great-grandmother got murdered and they were like well she pled guilty and now she's gonna i was like so what yeah i don't care if she jumped off a bridge or fucking ran free it doesn't matter she's dead now unless she's unless this person's gonna go kill more members of my fucking family my interest is way as fucking waned on the whole situation i don't care anymore

i'm not in this for you know i don't get to do anything to this person so what do i care anyway uh she said that uh they have to want to get better and have to believe they can get better and then they can get better she said the loss of a loved one never goes away. Although you'll not be completely recovered after the nine week class. And it feels like you can never be normal or happy again. You can expect to have the tools to walk through the grieving process and gain confidence that you can have joy again. Tremendous. So, yes.

Good for her for doing that. And I don't know if that guy's guilty or not. I can't tell. I have no fucking idea evidence they're put it this way it's kind of like steven avery where you're like think he did it but don't think they proved it you know like that's kind of one of those things like uh you know i i don't see what there's literally there's literally nobody else that was there that night there's no evidence of anybody there that night. There's no evidence of him doing it either, though.

That's the thing. So it's like there's no DNA under her fingernails or none of that. Did he sneak attack her? And it's very, I mean, it's. I need Rav4 keys in his pocket. I need more. He was there. Yeah.

Obviously. And he's the only one who we know is there. So you think, okay, he's definitely a suspect. Now. He's the only one there and his story doesn't make any fucking sense that's true too but do i believe automatically that the ex-husband's fucking new girlfriend and him did jello who knows she might be a lie for we don't know you lie for your boyfriend your girlfriend maybe not after 15 years maybe she'd have come out and

said actually he did it once they got mad at each other but we weren't drinking jello shots who knows that's we don't know we don't know-O shots. Who knows? We don't know. We don't know if maybe someone is looking for this. We don't know anything with this case, so it's really hard to convict somebody here. I mean, the only person documented that has any sort of animosity toward her would be her ex-husband. And he's busy doing Jell-O shots with his new girlfriend. He couldn't be happier. Yeah.

It's got to be him. He wouldn't be happier. Yeah. It's got to be him. But then again, whatever he gets paid for the repo is probably worth more than a used ring from a fucking mall. Probably. You know what I mean? So why do you just take that money and buy a ring from the pawn shop? Maybe he heard something where he thinks she's worth more.

Right? I believe the diamond guy that that's not the ring. Yeah, I believe that, too. It's not the fucking ring, period. And I don't think this guy's sophisticated enough. He going to take the ring stash it somewhere not in the van though because they searched the van so he's going to stash it like in the fucking parking lot of the jerry mart right and then take her in the house do all this and then go get the ring later and propose i don't think he's i just don't see that from a skags that's not nobody's ever done that

nobody's ever it's a rare i'm gonna have to kill somebody for a ring for her. A $400 ring. It's happened, but not in this situation. Yeah, on the street people have done it where like, you know, I'm going to rob something or whatever. People are like robbing for a living. Right. But someone with no criminal record has rarely killed someone that everyone knows that they're with yeah uh for a 400 ring that's a crazy thought that's a crazy thought so i'm not sure what happened either way i feel terrible

for the white family they had to go through all that shit that is awful and fucking julie obviously didn't deserve any of that shit ring no ring ex-husband husband whatever and uh that really sucks but that is our story everybody what a tale. That is Elizabethtown, Kentucky, and all of the mess that it brings there. So if you like that story or have any opinions on what you think of guilt or innocence or whatever the fuck, maybe you have an idea of something we're not thinking of. Love to hear it. You should do all of that. First, though, give us a review on Apple Podcasts. That purple icon.

It helps a lot. We don't know why. Give us five stars and say some shit that we don't care about. Say, you know, what size diamond you think it is. Doesn't matter. Take a wild-ass guess. 0.35 carats. We'll understand what you're talking about.

So thank you, though, for doing that. That really does help a lot. We don't know why, but it drives you up the charts. Also, you should head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now and get your tickets for the crime and sports virtual live show on May the 6th. And it'll be available for 72 hours after that. Right. We are going to throw down hard on that shit. I'm looking forward. We got a cool studio.

We made just specifically for this. And my own ring light it's cool man what do you see oh you have no idea what do you see the banner we have we made a banner we made these Mike Sarah's been going crazy for the for all the aesthetics here as you know she's there she's the one who makes it look

awesome every time visuals she's good at and this is going to be cool as shit so do that shut up and give me murder.com right now for tickets also get your tickets for all the live shows that are being rescheduled right now and lining up. And most of them are kind of set in stone, I think, now. We're going to be cruising here. Pretty well done. Pretty well done.

I mean, we've got a few to get going. Still on the schedule. So if you see something that isn't on there at the moment. Patience. Give it time. Patience. I think we locked down Dallas or something. I think Texasxas we're still there's like one or two dates cleveland might be gone we're not sure cleveland is gone it is done yeah madison is gone yes yes madison

scheduling we can't there was no way to do a thing after a thing it's just it's impossible it isn't sorry we're doing our best get to the ones that are close to you. And the shows that we, if we had to cancel something, we tried to cancel that has, if it had another show that was within a couple hours of a drive. Not that everybody wants to drive two hours. I don't want to make you drive. Give you an option. Look, I'm flying. Yeah.

You could drive. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to go through an airport. Yes. You're going to get in your car. Cleveland to Pittsburgh is not a, we took that drive. It's not a terrible drive. So,burgh is not a we took that drive it's not a terrible drive so no we didn't take that no we want pittsburgh to philly that's i've taken

that i've yeah but we're gonna do both of those yeah we are oh that's a bad one oh that pittsburgh to philly is oh my god jimmy had to make five bathroom stops for eating rotten church's chicken no popeyes popeyes sorry sorry gas station oh man yeah well probably don't eat fried chicken from a gas station i think maybe that one's on you either way though that's me thinking i'm 24 yep get tickets to these live shows and you can hear all these crazy ass stories as we complain about them on the road while we're there and all even more shut up and give me murder dot com right now get all your merchandise to get everything there all sorts of t-shirts and cool shit are up right there.

Get everything. Also, follow us on social media so you'll know when these things happen. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram and Patreon especially. Patreon is good shit. We throw down hard on Patreon just like on these live shows. Anytime anybody's giving us money for something. Wow. Do we feel obligated to really hit it hard?

I owe you. We do. And, uh, absolutely. You can check out, uh, patreon.com slash crime and sports.

The last one we just did, which obviously you'll have access to those episodes and every other one in our back catalog of Patreon episodes. We did, uh, our favorite and least favorite sports movies. Yes. We talked a lot of shit about bad movies for the most part. And then we did a whole episode on reviews of prisons and jails,

which are absolutely hilarious and vary more than you would imagine. It's pretty wild. There's a very broad reasons. You'd expect the same one. Yeah. Nope. Plenty of reasons to hate jail. Totally. From every perspective. So we of reasons to hate jail. Totally.

From every perspective. So we get to hear it all. Check all that out. It's patreon.com slash crime and sports for everything like that. And you'll also be a producer at that point. A wonderful, wonderful producer. And we think you're so amazing that Jimmy will read your name off and probably fuck it up. But he'll try hard.

That's the way I know. He'll try. And you'll be that appreciated that we'll have to say your name at the end of the show because we need to. Yeah. We need to. So you can do that, patreon.com slash crimeandsports. Or if you just want to be a good person with good karma and be a producer and have your name mispronounced and all that fun stuff, you can do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsportsatgmail.com. That said, this is a crazy episode. I need, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never give me a ring that

didn't match the carrot type of the person that you murdered. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Hoot Mama. Hey. I don't know. She bought a new house with a better T-Bowl to B-Hole ratio. Fuck yeah. She's jacked.

Work those B-Holes on them T-Bowls. Jessica Christensen, of course, Jordan Bennett, Rish Birjit Kursing-Tariko. That's somebody. That's a person. Oh, wow. That's a name. That's quite the handle. Chrissy Ann Castaldi, of course.

Thank you. Jennifer Baird, Jake and Kim Moore, Caitlin Fox and Kelsey Dexter. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Truly, you're fucking, you're everything. Amazing. Now, the producers this week are Monica's friend, Dustin, and he lost his pup, Spike. Oh, no.

So, terribly sorry, Dustin. Well, that sucks. Hang in there, buddy. It gets worse. Yeah. Cheyenne Wright had a birthday. Happy birthday. Peyton Meadows, Carl Kirshner.

Horrible. James Marder Liz Vasquez Thanks Liz for being around for so fucking long And sending birthday gifts You're amazing Thanks Liz Samantha Tooley Julianne Beth Pinkerton Custom color by Mo

Charlene Yin Nels and Harriet Olsen Rabbi Shmulalovich Bad Billy Pratt. All right. There we go. Some overboard happening there. I read it and had to stop

because I was giggling so hard. Erica Geisler, Steve Schnell. Of course, Steve sent us some chocolate cakes. The Ringdings. I ate those Ringdings. Thank you so much. My daughter, thank you. You're the best, Steve.

Melody and Holly Hoffman, Lisa Coltrane. And Lisa is fucking, she goes to bat for us. So thank you, Lisa, for everything. Thank you, everybody. Jennifer Visconti, David Beers, Christine Lyschel, Ashley and Corey Barraclough, Jennifer Stevens, Carissa Blanche, DJ Jellyfish. That's Daniel Salas, but I love DJ Jellyfish. That's a great name.

Good work, bud. Daniel Salas has said that. Emmy Dumont, happy birthday. Monica Hernandez, Janice Hill, Carly Hetherington, Kimberly Henley, Vanya Vinter, Amanda Burke, Jen Peek, Allison Morris, Bill McClellan, Candice Roop, Ashley Veal, Amy Conley was three weeks in the hospital, and the audience helped her get through it. Oh, hope you're recovering.

Because this audience is fucking amazing. Amy, hang in there. Jude Kendall, John Lawson, Siren Head, Siren, yes, Christopher Kreitz, Belinda Gray, Heather Carroll, Danielle Sherb, Allie Henley, Palmer Owens, Tracy Valencourt, yep, Erin Murray, Meredith Graves, Eduardo Santana, Andrea Quaringnghi, Sylvia Concha said that, Brian Gilbert, Justin with no last name, Shelby Rose, Marcy Bush, Colleen Lambert, Jerry Lee, Jameson, Quinn Riley, Monica, oh boy, Kolesny, Kennedy, that one took me for a ride. Kennedy Barozzi. Kayla Ann. Heather Adley. Brandy Mendoza.

Carrie Wilhelm. Chase Scott. Jamie Levesque. Art the Maritime Negro. What? I guess Art Sales. Yeah. It's the funniest fucking thing.

Josh Nichols. Sierra Marks. You better be black, too, Art. You're a white guy. Son of a bitch. That's not cool. Alicia Raymond Austin, Lisa Rucky, Steph Kisson, Kisson, Sean Smith, Valerie Little, Ruben Franco, Lori Pierce, Danella Barker, Kurt Eckert, Marcy Goodfellow, Todd Cooper, Samantha Warren,

Alan Cable, Susan Boder, Candace Bruce, Valerie Church, Amber Miller, Dan with no last name, Dylan Betts, Jason Blue, Natalie Reeds, Ann Dutchess, Fern Berry, Jamie Boyd, Annabelle Lexion, Will Mazingo, Jenna Benjamin, Mike Abler, Derek with no last name, John Maynard, Carla Hansen, Kristen Campbell, Kai with no last name, Cassie Harlow, Luis Maldonado, Laura Magner, Lauren Magner, and Neil Eachern, Savannah Fox, Kelly Seltman, what did I do? No, Otto Miso, Kelly Seltman, Kenny Fisher, Abby Lee, Mike Elias, Marcel Destine, I was doing so great. Jeff Irvine, Anna Elker, Lori Rustovan, Jaden Cooper, Tara Camilli, Alma Monarez, Alex Capel, damn it, Kate Dunlay, Rhonda Shuh, Vanessa Britaisha, what? Vanessa Brita Brita Brita Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita.

Brita. Brita. Brita. Brita. Rachel Gustafson, Ben Hudnall, Emily Perea, Ashley Culpepper, Elena Jennings, Darla Bagan, John, oh boy, Cornelia, Haley Sparks, Jennifer Jakopak, Michael West, Casey Doerr, Caitlin Smith, Cindy Torvik, John McRoberts, Bill Jenkins, Memphis Roscoe, Zach Perez, Jesse Medler, Stella with no last name, Camilla Jones, Tiffany Cook, Alfonso Tyler, Caleb Reeves, Michelle Siebert, Turd Ferguson.

Of course. Chloe Kraft, Shabor, Jason O-Ring, Hannah W., Michael Kuling, Marshall Rurda, Sherry MacArthur, Derek Baker, Joseph Bondi, Anna with no last name, Joe DeGroat, Mitch Collard, Willie J., Brad Glendhill, Constance Johnson, Christy May, Thomas Evans, Tony Peacock, Rory Daly, Lindsay Schaefer, Caroline with no last name, Alex Ann Orchard, Mark Sargent. I'm going to start just giving people last names that have no last name. I'm just going to assign one when you say it. I'm just going to shout Robinson.

Tim Zalesi, Kelly Gaspard, Shays Six, Jennifer Bartz, Kayla Dunstan, Scott Sawatsky, Sean Duggan, Dakota Smith, Ashley Hernandez, Devin Franklin, Jerrica Kunkel, Lindsay Cain, Keaton O'Neill, Marquise, nope, that's Karen. Whoa, thatanui Nick. Yeah, that's pretty close. Lolo Brinkham, McGillicuddy, Jaron Schmaltz, Amanda Gillum, no, Amanda Dunn, and Dustin. Austin Gilman, Emily Young, Ray Thomas, David, with whose last name? Rubenstein. There it is. Andrew Miso. Derek Baker. Tyler Blevins. Simon Baylor.

Madison Barton. Oh, Jesus. Demetrius Brooks. Sidney Baskin. James Bardsley. Holiday Jeremias. No, it's not right. Nico Usuluzin. Yeah. Ryan Bardwell. Sean Phillips. Rachel, it's not right. Nico Ousouzin. Yeah. Ryan Bardwell.

Sean Phillips. Rachel Malise. Beth Bryant. Beth. Nope, that's Ben Wilson. Diane Quag. Jose Sanchez. Kira.

And her last name is? Baracus. Clark Smith. Kelly Klinker. Hannes Schrewer. Jeremy Freese. Jason Williams. Donna Salmon. Emily Graper. Kirsten Chase, Cassidy with the last name of... Fox?

Rose Staslicevich. Tom has a sweet last name. Carlin? Dalton Brown, Allison Carrier, Chase Wojewczyk, John McManus, Joe Buchanan, Joanna Nugent, Anthony Renaro, and Angela Pace. And all of our patrons, you guys are terrific. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts.

Unbelievable. Everything that you do for us. Honestly, we would wither away and blow away like a dandelion in the end of summer without you. It would be depressing. It would be very depressing. So thank you for everything you do for us. And hopefully you keep enjoying all that stuff in the bonus episodes and everything like that.

What if people wanted to enjoy you somewhere else other than this show? How could they enjoy you? An overwhelming amount have found me and I appreciate it. At Westman sucks. W.H.I.S.M.A. And sucks on twitter and instagram thank you guys for being involved in this the past couple weeks have been insane on social media the amount of people uh that communicate with us absolutely it's pretty cool it's fascinating

that's another way to put it where could they be fascinated by you well they can they can find me and they have found me at matt jimmy p is funny or you can just google us i mean we're google the show it'll tell you who we are yeah we're the only ones doing it so it's not like you'd have to scroll too far so check that out keep coming back every single week because obviously we would be very lonely without you yes so that said until next week everybody it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.