Small Town Murder - #221 - Hitchhikers, Drifters & Necrophiliacs - Oakley, Kansas

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

This week, in Oakley, Kansas, a woman is found, brutally murdered, several times over, with a large knife, still stuck in her torso. The evidence quickly points to a local hitchhiker, who recently blew into town. But it gets crazier from there, when this hitchhiker blames the whole thing on "The Drifter", and it only gets weirder from there! Along the way, we find out that Buffalo Bill is considered "culture" in some places, that helping people is nice, but helping the wrong people can kill you, and that even if a person is dead, there are certain things that you shouldn't do to them! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Oakley, Kansas, the body of a woman who appears to be killed three different ways is found and investigators don't know who to blame, the hitchhiker or the drifter.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. murder hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. He was swallowing while you were here. He was. Oh, God, I got caught off guard there. I have a San Pelle G. That was funny. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

We have, as usual, a really wild show with just a – we have once in a while these killers where we're like, what the hell was that? And this is one of those where you're just, wow, whatever's going on in his head, I just want to know about it. Tremendous. I want to pull up a chair and be inside there and go, whoa, look at the show that's going on in here. Did you just tell a killer you want to be inside him? All up inside him, Jimmy. All up inside him. That said, thank you, everyone, for your reviews this week.

They mean a lot. They help a lot. They help drive you up the charts. Those purple icon Apple podcasts, those reviews help. So give us five stars if you can. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now, and we mean right now, for your tickets to the virtual live show. It's happening. Coming up for Crime and Sports.

Tickets to the virtual live show coming up for Crime and Sports. And Small Town Murder listeners, don't tune out about this because the most minimal amount of sports humanly possible in this episode, it's going to be Suge Knight. Fantastic. Fantastic. Who played college football and like a half a year of professional football. So that'll take up about, I don't know, four minutes of the presentation. about, I don't know, four minutes of the presentation, and the rest will be his string of really an amazing amount of crimes to look at a man and go, how was he not in prison for life 20 years ago?

This is incredible. So it's going to be wild. We'll get into Biggie and Tupac and the whole deal. It's going to be crazy. Check that out. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. May the 6th is that show, and it's available for 72 hours after that,

so you can watch it whenever you want. One week. Check that out. One week from today. It's a week away, everybody. Get your tickets now, and also get your tickets to all the rescheduled actual theater and club live shows that are coming. Thank God. Check them all out.

Get your tickets now. Everything's on there. Shutupandgivememurder.com. Also, head over to Patreon. You want to be there. You want to be a patreon contributor because you get the best bonus stuff going our bonus stuff is it's pretty you know what we don't pat ourselves on the back very often but it's pretty damn good james you're doing a great job it's good

stuff we're killing it on patreon patreon.com slash crime and sports this week your two bonus episodes first is on the college uh whole college admissions scandal that ensnared Aunt Becky from Full House. Amazing. And Felicity Huffman and all these people. I love when that happens because then we get to see what they look like today. Yeah, exactly. With an embarrassing face. And they show the worst picture of them going into court every day.

That's it. You get to check all that. It's really a wild thing and then also the other one for the small town murder bonus is going to be on cult deprogramming yeah deprogramming people from unbrainwashing people from cults and uh hard drive it's kind of the controversy behind that and the and the way it's done and we'll just get into the whole thing because i've always found that very very fascinating with these cults like how do you get someone to stop believing this stuff? So, we'll figure it out and we'll

talk about it on their Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports and you'll get a shout out as well because you're a producer which means we can't thank you enough. So, you will get a shout out. Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name. It's going to be wonderful. And if you want to just be a good person with good karma and a producer

of the show and get your name mispronounced, you can do that over at PayPal using our email address. Crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, yes, absolutely. And let's die for the disclaimer quickly. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. That's the way this works. And yes, it is about murder.

That's weird, right? You're going to go, wow, comedy show about murder. It is a comedy show about murder because people get killed all the time. We're comedians. We're going to have to make jokes about things that happen around the murder. That's it. The thing is, when a murder happens, the decision to do this murder and the decision to, you know, how they're going to try to get away with it and all that. It's fucking bananas.

It's hilarious a lot of the time. It really is. That's what's great. There's hilarious a lot of the time. It really is. That's what's great. There's nothing funny about someone being dismembered, obviously. That's not hilarious. Oh, then her arm fell off. Ha ha. That's not a thing.

We're not doing that. We go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why? Because we're assholes. Yeah. But we're not scumbags. That's the deal right there. That's how it works.

And so if that sounds good to you, we're going to have a great time with a wild story. Sure. If you don't think true crime and comedy ever should be in the same place together, maybe we're not for you. Maybe we are, though. But if not, then don't complain later. But for everybody else who wants to hear a crazy story, it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? I would like that. All right. Let's get out of our confines here. We were in Kentucky last week, and we're going to go to another K-State, coincidentally enough. There's not a lot of K-States, and we're going to bang them out right in a row here.

We're going to Oakley, Kansas. Yeah. Oh, boy. Kansas. You going to go after Annie? No, actually, oddly enough. You would imagine, because everything here is named after the Buffalo Bill. They have their main festival at the Buffalo Bill Cultural Center.

Oh, sweet Christ. I'm like, Buffalo Bill Cultural Center? That's your culture? Those don't go together. Yeah, it's like cultural center. Unless Agra is in front of it. It doesn't match. Like he was an artist, a Renaissance artist or something.

The Buffalo Bill Cultural Center, where we get together. Take your boots off before you enter the cultural center, please. You have shit all over your shoes. He's never been linked. He's anti-culture. It's very strange. So this is in western Kansas, way out toward the west side of Kansas there.

It's about four hours to Denver. Okay. You're going to drive over west. About four hours and 15 minutes to Topeka, if you want to go east the other direction, because that's just outside Kansas City. And then about three hours and 20 minutes to Hutchinson, Kansas,

which was our last Kansas episode episode 146 my Christ yeah this is 21 yeah November of 2019 oh we were so full of hope so full of hope yeah this is in three different counties okay the the town is 1.93 square miles and it's in three different counties Jesus you the town is 1.93 square miles and it's in three different counties jesus you you couldn't figure that out somehow to not have a two square mile town in three different counties honest there's nothing out there either it's not like oh there's a ton of other towns taking up the space it's there's nothing there it makes no sense whatsoever you can go two blocks over and find a dry county that's banana yeah and

go over here yes what if your yard is in different how does that work for taxes and it's got to be a nightmare there it's in logan thomas and gove counties uh it's area code 775 motto here is uh and honestly this is very honest motto quote where the hell are we? Seriously, did I make a wrong turn? My Google Maps doesn't even work out here. That's a very good enough. It's specific as far as a motto goes. History of this town here. It was initially settled in the 1870s and 1880s by, I assume, you know, murderers and, you know, people that would stick you in the belly with a knife

for a bottle of whiskey stagecoach shit yeah yeah it was well it was travelers from the smoky hill trail what is uh founded this it's an american mountains are but i've never heard of smoky hill trail i haven't either weirdly and i like i know a lot about the west too and shit and i was like smoky hill trail it's a trail that went across the central Great Plains from the mid 1850s to about 1870. And it was mainly in Kansas, basically the Kansas territory. It kind of spanned the whole. It's like the I-40 goes all the way through Tennessee. It's one of those like that's the trail went all the way through Kansas. And it was named after the Smoky Hill River, which is parallel there. named after the smoky hill river which is parallel there uh it was basically the most direct route to the pikes pikes peak gold rush in the colorado gold so these were these were desperate the gold

miners were not like the most upstanding people for the most part like you were saying these are people who are like i heard there's you know valuable rocks hundreds of miles that way let's fuck it if you have nothing else going on to the extent where you're like, I'll just jump in my cart and go there. Back in the day, you did not have a lot happening. They hate me around here. Might as well go there. Oh, shit. I got to get out of here.

I'm haunted. That's what people who are wanted, shit like that. It was founded by a judge named Judge Fredman and a guy named David Hogue. And it was originally named Carlisle. And then its name was changed to Cleveland. And then they literally were like, there's another Cleveland. And we're not going to be bigger than that. It's also got a lot of negative connotation.

We should change it. Let's just change it. We don't want to be associated with. I mean, it's a difficult time. The Indians just don't win enough, I feel like. And, you know, I'm just not a fan of the Browns. I mean, team goes away, comes back. I don't know.

There's something about that kind of killed it for me. So, you know, the Browns are like an abusive boyfriend. Yeah. They come about. He's back. Yeah. Somehow you're excited about it, even though it's bad for you. But he's moving back in. Comes around again. even though it's bad for you but he's moving

back in comes around again and he hasn't he hasn't done anything to not be a loser cleveland they're gonna flirt with another city and eventually eventually they're gonna leave again they are you know they're gonna leave they're gonna end up in like you know you know they're gonna end up in like charleston south carolina or some weird shit like doing better than they did here you're gonna be like i'm way better than charleston south You're going to be like, I'm way better than Charleston, South Carolina. I'm way hotter. You know, this is fucked up. Yeah.

You're going to keep checking their Instagram. It's going to be a mess. So just be prepared for that, Cleveland. They don't even look great in a scarf. No. So they changed it to Oakley in 1885 after David Hogue's mother, whose name was Elizabeth Oakley Gardley gardner hoag that's

they picked one of those four names and named the town after it 25 of it yeah yeah they put it in a hat and they oh i guess it's oakley fuck it one of the first businesses established here was a bank of course obviously yeah and then in 1890 they got a school district going and things were cooking until 1904 when I'll give you a guess what happened Jimmy. It all burned to the ground. Burned to the fucking ground. As everything in the entire United States burned from 1890

to 1910. Everything burned to the ground. Let's build it all out of wood. Oh shit we use candles to oh damn it this ain't gonna work. We're heating these places with fucking oil. With coal. Never mind oil.

It's a big raging coal fire in the basement. That's not good. So, yeah, they ended up, everything burned down, and they built new brick and concrete buildings after that. They're like, well, we knew it could happen. And many of them are still there today, actually. A lot of these old buildings that they built in the 1910s. The brick ones? Yeah, they are still there today, actually. A lot of these old buildings that they built in the 1910. Yeah, they're still there.

They're known as the Oakley Plainsmen, the high school. And let me show you their logo because it's on the water tower. And it is absolutely, look at this guy. Holy. Looks like Macho Man with clothes on. It looks like Randy Macho Man Savage is going out looking for gold. That's what it looks like. Oh,o man savage is going out looking for gold that's what it looks like oh i'm gonna get some gold brother yeah does this jacket have leather tassels on the fucking shoulders too oh it's got leather tassels brother yeah it does elizabeth

come elizabeth fluff my tassels please let's do the planesman is that what you said yeah the planesman that's a planesman right there he's got a rifle in his hand and everything he's ready to go uh they have all of their i found on wikipedia they list all of their championships here they got a lot done not not in a while they haven't done well 74 wrestling 70 71 cross country boys 76 boys basketball 2005 and 7 girls cross country and girls basketball that's their late latest championship all right volleyball in the early 80s they must have had a really tall girl because they won it four years in a row good for them they are just supporting the ladies athletics 2000 speech and drama they were putting that on there that's not a that's i mean that's fine and all but you don't put that

under athletics you guys and then 1998 two speaker debate they put that on there as well they're really it is fascinating to see the the change overall of how they went they went from like men's sports aggression to then let's support the ladies now let's all the athletes left now there's no more athletes let's go with them athletes we're working on our minds everybody how's that chess club coming good uh the thick fossil and history museum is a museum that has uh large dinosaur fossils from kansas quote many old tools mineral specimens and shell and mineral folk art yeah i can't wait to go there boy the museum is free i was just going to say this better

not be any admission to get into this charge me to see tools we're gonna have a problem to see shell and mineral folk art what and that's a very very vague term many old tools what is it my grandfather's crescent wrench what everything from that to like cave carving tools better be that something to that well right up till yeah you know something from your grandfather's on it we're gonna fight something your grandfather could still return to sears this very day if he could find an open one it's a rusty husky fucking crescent wrench we're gonna fight for sure this is bullshit man i'm gonna beat you with that i have reviews of this town um i'm gonna give you two five star reviews because they're short so you let them have their say five stars there are plenty of options when it comes to food and drinks well that's terrific

the customer service is usually pretty good at the places i go if you're craving something or want something there's usually a place to get it okay great that's good to know really i mean there's food there so that's a plus but that But that doesn't say shit. No. What kind of cravings? We have food. That's what that says, so there's that. Five stars. The local businesses in the area are very helpful and beneficial. I've always been able to find everything

I need, and everyone is very friendly and helpful when it comes to asking questions. That's good. You go in and go, where do you have the eggs? And they don't go, hey, go fuck yourself. How's that? That's where the eggs are. Up your mother's ass.

That's where the fucking eggs are. Okay? I like that. Friendly and helpful. Do you have this? No, I'm sorry. That's a friendly and helpful answer, too. It's helpful.

It's very friendly. I think that's what he's saying there. He's saying that you've got everything you need, nothing you want. Nothing you want. Two stars here. This is the worst one I could find. you want nothing you want uh two stars here this is this is the worst one i could find quote i've been trying to find a part-time job in this area for the semester and have found it very difficult applying for six plus jobs and interviewing not being contacted back has really impacted me

all right so this is yeah this is an unhirable person and they're they're they're blaming the town somehow on this two stars they won't take a chance on me. Yeah, like, I don't know. Go review those individual businesses then. Don't review the whole town. Maybe someone else will give you a job. Here's three stars. I enjoyed my time in high school. Terrific.

I'm thrilled for you. I always felt like we didn't really have clicks and everyone got along. Great town. There you go. What's the matter with the fucking town? I don't know, but that's all they have to say about the whole town. That's it. High school was good.

You know what? I'm going to put this on the internet. Wait a second. On my Facebook? No. No, I'm going to put it on niche.com under reviews of my town. My opinions of how I fared in high school. Then there's three stars here.

This area tends to be windy during all seasons. Okay. During the spring, there are little rain showers and nice temperatures. Summer is hot with wind and frequent thunderstorms. Fall, moderate temperatures with wind and occasional thunderstorms. Winter, cold with snow and sometimes blizzards. Meteorology? Just the weather breakdown. so now we have the food

we know what there is to eat there people are friendly if you have a question we have the whole weather breakdown and it's pretty nice to go to high school there apparently so ever i think this is all sounds i have news for you when you start talking about the weather the conversation's over yeah then that's all they have to say this not even i like it they didn't even give an opinion they just said here's the facts it's windy and then gave like a you know this is a moderate precipitous zone yeah of the like what the fuck are you talking about i had a friend text me and tell me uh it's a pretty nice day in the town that i live, and he's here.

And I was like, are we already here? We've gotten to the point where a conversation's over, seven texts into this? I was like, well, I'll talk to you tomorrow. Pretty soon he'll only be contacting you when somebody dies. Yeah. Did you see Jack died? No shit. Yeah, okay, and that's it.

You won't hear from him for two more years. Hey, do you remember so-and-so? I think so. They're dead. And that's it. You won't hear from him for two more years. Hey, do you remember so-and-so? I think so. They're dead. Dead. Car accident. 18-wheeler. Took his head clean off.

It was brutal. Brutal. That's a good conversation. This here is a review of the Annie Oakley Motel. Okay. This is just the motel. A thing Annie Oakley never stayed in, probably. Never stays there.

So I don't know why they named it. It's not named after Annie Oakley, the town. So the Annie Oakley never stayed in probably. Never stays there. So I don't know why they named it. It's not named after Annie Oakley, the town. The Annie Oakley Motel. I believe this is in Oakley. This is in Oakley. I'm not even sure. It's just the Annie Oakley Motel and I found it hilarious. So I'm going to read it.

One star. I'm not really picky about motels. I stay in a lot of places that others avoid and don't complain. Wow. This is a comedian this is a like a nationwide feature act right yeah i was saying this uh but the annie oakley was a new low even for me who is this person i must i turned tricks in sleazy motels and even this place was beneath me um it's so run down it really needs to be leveled. By the way, the title of this review is Should Be Condemned.

So you know it's going to be good here. James, it is in Oakley, Kansas. It is. Okay, good. I thought so. And it's $55 a night. That's very, very cheap. That is almost equal to sleeping in your car, pretty much.

Yes. I could take my foot and push the bottom of the door several inches away from the doorframe, even after the door was closed and locked. That sounds like quality. Tiles were falling off the bathroom wall. Everything from the walls to the furniture looked run down. The bed was so soft it was uncomfortable uncomfortable and the comforter smelled of body odor well it's yeah i'm shocked that anyone has rated this place above a one if the proprietors can't afford to bring it up to some semblance of reasonable it should be shut down so if you're in

oakley don't stay there apparently according to this person that sounds terrible so uh people in this town population 1855 which is down 10% since 1990. So it's dropping. People are leaving. For the first time ever, male-female population exactly 50-50. Wow. Which with an odd number of people, I don't know how they're doing that. But either way, 50-50.

Median age. Right? I don't know what they're doing there. Yeah, who's doing the math here? Yeah, I don't know. Median age is about almost 42, which is about four years older than normal. But that's because the 85 and over group, 85 years old and over, that demo normally is about 2% in the rest of the country. Here it's 7.2%.

Oh my. The highest we've ever seen. Like it's, there's so many old people here. All the demos over 60 are like really high. It's, yeah. I know at one point this county or this area had the highest COVID death rate in the country because everybody here was old and it's like, you know.

Yeah, it's like it just running through a fucking retirement home exactly it's like that's basically what it was so they had an exorbitant number of old people so those numbers might be less now i'm not sure how many are left but married population here is 63 which is way higher than the normal it's normally 50 50 so that's a lot uh the widowed rate is also double. So that's, you know, with old people, you're going to get widows. They stick around until they die. That's what it is. And then they stay here even after that.

They're not even going to go move in with their kids somewhere. I'm moving in with my son moved to Salt Lake City. I'm moving there. They don't even do that shit at all. So race of this town, 91.3% white. Yep, that sounds about right pretty goddamn white point point one percent black point one at that point point one why is that one family who is like three people yeah hi i'm hi i'm phil and this is my wife and this is my daughter and we're the black people of oakley how are you what the fuck is that uh 0.0 percent asian you can't find an asian person in the whole town which is wild uh at 5.8

percent hispanic so it's pretty white here vastly white western rural kansas you wouldn't expect oh it's a diverse you know what's really good there? The Mexican food. Phenomenal. You just don't expect that. The Thai food there. Real melting pot Kansas. That's what it is. So there's, wow, is there even like a Chinese place there?

Can you get? They wouldn't even want it. No. If I can't get a decent egg roll, I'm going to be really happy. There's got to be some. If you crave it, it's there. They said so. Apparently they don't crave Chinese food. That's not happening. Apparently they don't crave lo mein, Jimmy's there. They said so. Apparently, they don't crave Chinese food. That's not happening.

Apparently, they don't crave lo mein, Jimmy. That's not a thing. Religion here, this is the highest I think we've ever seen. 82.4% of the people here are religious. That has got to be by far the most. Wild. Yeah. And no Baptist.

0.0% Baptist. None of that shit out here. 21% Catholic. And then 35% other Christian faith. So I don't know what the hell that even means. Just a hodgepodge of all kinds of shit. No Mormons either, which is odd. Not one?

Not one. Usually this area, once you get out west like that, they're going to be there. 0.0% Jewish as well. So that's not happening either here. That is interesting. The last election, 11% of the people here voted Democratic in Logan County and 83.4% voted Republican and 5.6% voted independent. Unemployment rate here is low.

It's about 2.7%, but the household income is also a little bit under the average, usually about 57 and a half thousand here. It's a little bit under the average, usually about $57,500 here. It's a little under $48,000. So it's a little bit low. A lot of retail trade jobs. This is a place that's just off a highway. So this is like a lot of truck stops. Yeah, a lot of people just passing through, shit like that.

That's going on a lot. A lot of Flying J employees. Exactly. Truck stop employees, people cleaning up those showers. people just passing through shit like that that's going on a lot of flying j employees exactly truck stop employees people cleaning up those showers and so you need those people i'm sure to go through there uh oakley here uh cost of living 100 being regular average uh here it is 73.6 the housing is low though it's a 38 median home cost 89 100,100. Holy shit. Cheap. About 92% of the houses are worth less than $200,000.

What? So it's all of them pretty much. And if we've convinced you, damn it, that there's something here for you, we don't know what it is, but something, if your GPS stops working, we have for you the Oakley, Kansas Real Estate Report. The Oakley, Kansas Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $672. Yeah, but that's a little high. Yeah, like half the national average.

I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,480 square foot. Plenty of room. Plenty of room. You have a couple kids in there or whatever. It's a brick house. Okay. So when it's windy, like that person said, it's not going to fall down. I watched Oz.

Decent, you know? $136,000 for this. Wow. So, I mean, not bad. That's a value for that house. Then I found 160 acres of land, Jimmy. Oh, boy. Of Dust Bowl.

That's so much Kansas. Let me show you a picture of it. Yep. Oh, boy. Of Dust Bowl. That's so much Kansas. Let me show you a picture of it. Yep. Oh, yeah. Look at that. Yeah. Holy shit. That's where Dorothy's house used to be. Yeah.

It's just, there's not a hill. No. There's not a, it's just a long plain of nothing. You got a trail that just runs right the fuck through it. That's it. 160 acres of Dust Bowl, $250,000. That seems like more work than anything. Like, how do I keep this from being worse?

Yeah, you'd just be constantly trying to keep that flat. Yeah, I don't know. Things are piling up. I don't know what would happen to it, but something. You just have to patrol that all day to make sure nobody dumps on your property. That's a shitload of land. Or just starts living there.

You'd be like, I don't know, over on that side of the property. People built a house, for Christ's sake. I haven't been there in a couple weeks. That's a shit painted white trim. So it looks good for what it is. The yard looks nice. Two hundred fifty thousand for that. What a deal, though. The most expensive house you're going to find in this area. Fucking shocking. Yeah, it's very cheap. Things to do here. Oh, boy.

This is where it's at. The Oakley Corn Festival, everybody. Of course there is. Oh, come on down. It's all corn. Where does this take place, Jimmy? The Buffalo Bill Cultural Center. Our culture is corn.

The Buffalo Bill No Culture Center. There it is. It kicks off on a Friday with 11 to 1 p.m. The Oakley Hometown Corn Cook-Off. Oh, gosh. Get there for that. There's so many different ways you can make corn. I mean, it yeah you can mash it up what's the best way to make corn is it in a chowder cob is pretty fucking good that's not bad none of the cob butter yeah or pepper

pop that shit that's the best way you could pop it you could mash it make some tortillas out of it which is also good you can put stuff i didn't even think about that. You can grill it. You can roast it. Maybe I'm Buffalo Bill No Culture Center. That's unbelievable. That is the best way to have it. All sorts of shit. Yeah, that's a good way, too. Then you can have anything you want in the corn. Yeah.

You have corn and something. Then we have 3 to 5 p.m. Kansas State contest registration and reception at the Buffalo Bill Cultural Center. Husker training for novice Huskers available. By the way, they're talking about corn husking. Yeah, teach you how to pull it off. That's the pre-registration for the next day,

the Kansas State Corn Husking Contest registration is then. So everybody get together, get your husking skills, practice in your living rooms at home, and then we're all going to show up and do this. So everybody get together. Yeah. Get your cuskin skills. Practice in your living rooms at home. Right. And then we're all going to show up and do this. That's just a way for somebody that grows corn to get that shit husked for free. Yeah. How many can you do?

For free. Do you know what it costs to do this? Oh, my God. It's 35 bucks to husk corn briskly with others. Get them to pay to do this. Just pay us for all that corn. That's why. To husk corn briskly with others. We can get them to pay to do this job. To pay us for all that corn. That's why.

That includes lunch and a banquet ticket as well. And it says, this is amazing, Jimmy. Let's say a city folk like us, you know what I mean? We're not used to husking. They got it all taken care of for us. Quote, never husked? No problem. Learn to husk and enter the novice group and have fun so there's that that's literally the worst part of making corn it is a pain in the ass yeah

and people do it they're not like thrilled doing it when they're doing it for a living i knew a kid whose grandfather was a corn farmer and every summer he'd have to he lived in iowa and he'd have to go husk corn his grandpa and he fucking hated it he was like it's the worst thing ever just all day ripping it's horrible that was what his job was he hated it uh from four to six p.m is husking training and practice wow available in the field for novice huskers and contestants this husker they use as a normal word there which is amazing saturday october 16th is coming up the husking contest will take place in oakley uh half mile west of the 4-h dick farmer arena complex dick farmer come on man we're trying we try not to be immature and shit like that but

when you put a dick farmer in there you can't help but look at a man looking at his field happily nodding along going i've grown some nice dicks today and it's just popping up coming up great this season oh man that's a bell that's a big that's a nine inch over there that's a big old dick coming out of my ground corn's already phallic enough don't throw dick farmer in there dick farmer complex uh cornfield sponsored by pioneer feed yard all right uh then we have 8 p.m on the 16th there's a lot of pat or 8 a.m there's a lot of pageantry with this kansas state contest registration 8 30 to 9 a.m national anthem and kansas state corn husking contest begins oh boy you gotta sing before you gotta we gotta make Make sure we honor America before we start pulling this shit apart.

This is a big deal here. We can't fuck around. The corn art. Then they have a corn art contest for kids. Corn art. Yeah. Corn art contest rules. Decorating must be done at the contest.

All decorating supplies are provided. So there's that. They also have the contest uh all decorating supplies are provided so there's that uh they also have the contest horse wagon rides corn ear throwing contest who can huck a beer of corn the farthest after people have watched it what the fuck is going on somebody sat there and said what can we do with this corn uh to make this we can't just all husk all day that's not nobody's they're gonna see right through this they're gonna want to throw them eventually they're gonna get angry at the corn i want to just chuck them across the damn field then later on for kids face painting and rope making the kids want them out of good the kids want to make rope is that something i've never had a desire as a kid yeah i really wish i could

make a rope well i mean terrific at some point somebody's gonna want to make rope? Is that something? I've never had a desire as a kid. Yeah, I really wish I could make a rope. That'd be terrific. Well, I mean, at some point, somebody's going to want to hang themselves from all of this corn. That's true. That's really true. So the national, finally, Sunday, the national corn husking contest happens. That's the big deal there. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, obviously.

Property crime is about half of the national average here and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is also about half here so not a lot going on i mean it's it's a small town a lot of old people yeah people over 85 tend to not commit a lot of crime you know what i mean yeah they've aged out of crime and that's true they're kind of the lowest risk group of criminals really they're not even a even someone who's really wants to be a bad motherfucker yeah it's not really possible after 85 that much eventually you just stop being a badass a la uh whitey bulger you know what i mean yeah i mean it's hard it's hard retired in california just done. Well, unless you're sneaking up on someone in their sleep, it's hard to murder them at all if you're that old. Because people just go, get away and push you.

And then you'll fall down and break eight things without even helping it. And at 85, if you see somebody asleep, you're like, that looks like a good idea. And then you sit down and take a nap. That's not bad. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a

weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Speaking of that, that actually leads into, if there is enough time at the end of this, we have a little bonus story that is one of these stories that you just love to hear. It's about a very old man

who is just a bad son of a bitch and he's awesome. Not a criminal, just a badass and really awesome and there's murder involved in it and it's crazy. So hopefully we'll be able to get to that if not we'll have to do it on a bonus episode or something but let's get into this so we hopefully have time okay let's go back in time right now all right to better let's get out late late 80s jimmy december of 88 oh boy Oh, boy. Oh, my. Think about that. That is just, that's a time. They don't want to. Giant hair and, I mean, poison is dominating things. That tells you a lot right there.

So December 7th, 1988 to be exact here. You know what? Oakleys were a big deal right now. They were really becoming the shit. Yeah. In a few years, they would really be. Forget it. Bright yellow, bright pink, bright orange, all in one pair of sunglasses? How were people thinking, by the way, with those things?

Hand them over. Here we go. I'm protected all the way around, and I'm ready to weld, as a matter of fact, also. So that's a plus. Most over-the-counter sunglasses don't protect you from the oxyacetylene torch. From flying debris from downward. You know how it is. What kind of dangerous life you live in, sir?

Man, right? Just hanging out. People just sitting on their porch with those things. You're like, really? Wow. This is a great place to have them. There's flying corn everywhere. Well, I mean, Jesus, there's people chucking them all over the place.

There's husks. Husks are always in the air. You never get away from those. So December 7th, 1988, to be exact, we'll go back to. And we're going to go to a little place on the far. It's on the northern edge of Oakley. It's kind of out by itself, like everything else in this town. It is the country

club motel great which those two things don't go together no they don't country club is one thing and a motel motel as it's not a hotel a motel is a completely different experience country club oftentimes are very nice and motels are oftentimes never, ever, ever nice. They're never good. That's the thing. It's they're never really good. It's a very oxymoronic title. It makes no it makes no fucking sense.

It's like the side of the road shack grocery store. No, those are different. No, you buy shrimp in a van on the side of the road in the desert in Arizona, and then you get good shrimp at the grocery store. That's how that works. So this morning of December 7th, 1988, at 830 a.m., at the motel, a person walks in who's a friend of the night manager. And she's usually finishing up her stuff around this time. So they're going to talk to her. And the woman's name is, this is the woman who's the night manager, is Alice Pepperell.

P-E-P-P-E-R-L. Yeah. Which there's a vowel missing somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Pepperell. She is the night manager and her friend shows up to find her and he the friend does find alice only in a very very not a good way oh no uh walks in and

finds her lying uh on at the foot of her bed with both completely naked by the way um then she's a 59 year old woman so she's not i don't know how's, I mean, she might be strutting her stuff, but she's walking around naked. But for the most part, she'd probably be clothed of some kind, you know. She's more of a modest lady, as we find out, too. She's not really flaunting anything, like, even in her own space. She's not like, I'm just going to walk around with my tits out. Yeah. I mean, it's fine to do, but i don't feel like she's doing it um she is naked and she's at the foot of her

bed with both a coat hanger and an electrical cord a wire coat hanger you know yeah and an electrical cord that had been ripped off an alarm clock on the nightstand uh both wrapped around her neck that's um yes oh no that's we're not done yet um and in addition to that she seems to have like uh you know bruises and injuries of of a little bit of uh fighting that sort of thing some trauma and then some trauma there and then on top of that uh she also has about an eight inch knife protruding from her stomach oh god damn it at the same time so this is a somebody was not happy at all with this situation somebody went hard for this is that's personal right yeah i mean it's a lot it's it's a lot happening there um and it's it's just different cause like from what they find the the coroner ends up getting there at 11 AM and they find they estimate that the time of death was anywhere from two to 10 hours earlier. Number one in the eighties, it was harder to tell. But even now, once the body kind of goes into rigor, it's like, okay, well it's in rigor. So we don't know how, you know, if it it was 10 hours then it would come out again to go back in again but they don't know exactly how long it's been there basically if

there's some lividity that would go after a couple hours to also so they're like anywhere from two to ten basically uh but they think closer to the you know maybe four or five somewhere in the middle there probably so uh the they do say the uh spokesman here for the police says that the motive for the crime, the only one they can muster from this appearedel here. Gloria Cable found her in the morning and there was she was in her motel room. She lived on site. This Alice, she lived on site and in her motel room. This was at the end of a six to eight foot hallway leading from the motel office. So she had almost like a storage unit deal where there was a motel office and then that led to a little room that was hers her little like motel apartment here so they said that the

whoever did this apparently uh tried to strangle her with his bare hands at first and then that wasn't working well enough so that's when he apparently grabbed a wire coat hanger from the bathroom that was close by and uh tried to strangle her with that and that was also inefficient as well so then he said ah electric cord from the clock in the bedroom that'll work much better and strangled her and then finally stabbed her three times very very deep in the midsection too much and left the knife sticking out of her stomach so that's that's a lot man that's that's a lot they from the looks of things they speculate that this attack began in the short hallway between the you know the office and the room and then they think that she was dragged into her room and, you know, they don't know what the hell happened.

They said she had numerous marks and bruises all over her and marks on her neck from multiple strangulation attempts, obviously. And also stab wounds, two stab wounds, one in each breast and then one protruding, one penetrating seven and a half inches through her abdomen. And that cut a major artery and would have killed her if she wasn't already dead from being strangled. Holy shit. Yeah, this is post-mortem. This happened. Also, yeah, they found the knife with an eight-inch blade, obviously, still in her. The investigator here says,

quote, it doesn't appear that there was much of a struggle. He said that she could have been confronted in the hallway between the office and her room, which is behind the motel's business office there.

It's all, there's like the business office, you know, well, here's your key and all that shit. Then in the back, there's like,

this is where we do our accounting and our payroll and everything. And then she's got a room off of that. This is where singles this is where we count all those big singles from the from the annie oakley here they get the annie oakley runoff over here that's what it is so says quote it looks like the confrontation might have started about eight feet from where she was found so they don't think it was much there. They're saying that the, doesn't look like there was much of a struggle. He says, quote,

a curtain jerk down seems to be the only form of struggle. Then they say, the reporters ask him about, you know, was she raped? And he says, quote, she probably was dead. We don dead we don't know oh no so they're not sure if that was post-mortem or not so right we have at the very least a sick son of a bitch rapist murderer and at the i don't know if it's better or worse but on the other side of the spectrum a rapistist, a murderer, necrophiliac. So that's some weird shit we're looking for here. If you do it in order, rapist, murderer, if you're more crazy, murderer, rapist.

Yeah, that's even worse. I guess it's worse. I don't know. I don't know how to classify that. It's grosser. It's certainly worse. Is it grosser, I guess? I mean, but if you're already, like if I die, I don't care what you do to me.

You can come over and fuck my ear holes. I don't care. Knock yourself out. I already like if i die i don't care what you do to me you can come over and fuck my ear holes i don't care like i kind of care i really don't care i'm dead you can do it throw me into the woods i've said that a bunch of times just roll me into the woods i have no interest in any of this pageantry after i'm dead i don't care i am not here to do this so i don't give a shit i can't i can't tell though if it if it's worse because i don't know it's it's considered grosser in society just because it's like that's what you're into. Right. People.

It's one thing. We obviously are like grossed out by rapists who are into this power trip or whatever. But is it grosser to be turned on by a corpse? Like, it's just it's more aberrant, probably. But you don't care if afterwards. But the living still cares. I think that know if it's grosser. Perhaps you don't care afterwards, but the living still cares. I think that's what it is. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, nobody wants to hear, because this woman, she's 59 years old.

She's got grandkids. No one wants to hear that somebody had sex with your dead grandmother. That's what it is. That's disgusting. My great grandmother was murdered and all this sort of thing, broken, cut her throat and all that, but nobody had sex with her afterwards. I might feel differently about it. I might be like, Jesus.

Right. That was it was a woman that killed her. So that's probably the reason why. Depending on her proclivities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't hear a lot of like woman on woman post-death sexual assault, though.

That's not normal. Doesn't happen. Woman on woman sexual assault in the first place i'm sure there's some well there is like in jails and stuff it's not near as prevalent it's out there but i think yeah well plus i don't know what a there for a woman i don't know how to say this but for there are there has to be some participation on the other person's part for a woman to whatever like sure whereas a guy's just like oh some gross assholes like there's a hole you know what i mean like this is different so i don't know

anyway we'll get off of that i mean you could manually there's plenty of ways for oh you could you could do things but it's not it just doesn't seem yeah well i don't know if women have the same uh drive they're just not as gross inside. They're just not as gross as us. That's what it is. They're just not as gross as us. That's it. I would say the majority of necrophiliacs are definitely men. I think I can safely say that without any scientific proof of that just off the top of my head.

With zero research, I am confident in saying. Yeah, I can confidently say that with nothing to back it up. I'll bet my house on it. I would. I would bet my house on it. I really would. So they believe, investigators, that this killer also took between $75 and $100 from the cash register, which the register was locked when they got there.

They had to wait for the owners, and then the owners unlocked it, and they found that the cash was missing. Oh, he locked up after? That's the weird part. Yeah, that's why they were like, that's strange. The motel is owned by a guy named Jeff Harsh, who's an interesting guy, man. We'll talk about him. He's very interesting.

He puts his money where his mouth is when he wants to help people. I'll give him that. He tries to really help people. He says that they usually have about $75 and $100 on hand there to make change, just in the register. And that was gone. So they feel like maybe that was the deal. The register had $0.47 in it. That's what they found when they got there.

Yeah. And a coin as well, as we'll talk about. There's a coin with they keep a quarter with a hole punched out in the middle for good luck. He keeps in the register. That's gone. That's gone as well. The good luck quarter is gone, which is strange. It's like he ripped the frame dollar bill off the wall.

Which is strange. It's like he ripped the frame dollar bill off the wall. The guy saw the corner and was like, well, all that needs is a string and I've got free pay phone use for life. You know what? I'm in. I've seen that movie. I ain't paying for nothing ever again. I'm calling my grandma long distance. Forever.

Forever. Forever. Forever. So the cops here, they don't think, the investigators don't think that it's more than one person involved in this. Mainly because two people don't usually fuck a corpse. You know, that's the other thing, too. And steal all that for 75 bucks. They're going to split between two people.

It just doesn't seem. And if there's two people, one person will tell you that coin's useless. Leave it. Yeah, that's true yeah that's true valuable at all and you might not need to strangle an older woman three different ways as well yeah which is there um they said that the didn't appear to be any property damage and it didn't appear to be anything stolen items wise her purse is there. Jewelry. The only thing that's missing is what usually is in the cash drawer, which is between 75 and 100 bucks. The investigator here said, quote, The cash drawer was locked and contained nothing but small change. But whether it was locked, whether it was locked before or after the murder, we don't know. We'll have to wait until we get a hold of the owner to see how they operate their cash drawer.

Yeah. They also said about witnesses, quote, there were other occupants in the motel, but apparently none of them heard anything. We don't have any witnesses. So they got nothing here. Basically flying blind. They got a poor older woman. What the fuck do you do here? do here uh they they do say here the county attorney larry phelps said that this death is the first murder within the city limits of oakley in since he took office 30 years ago this is a a new thing basically not one in 30 years 30 years nothing in this and he was proud of that shit look yeah he's like he's got to change the little numbers on the wall there it's a lot of days without a murder and he's like shit one damn it come on people yeah this shit looks bad when i do interviews in here i had it look real good for a while it was a hundred thousands of days days since murder looked great now one is not good looks like we have murders every damn day over here now this is bullshit this is bad he uh he said that there's no suspects at this point but they do have nothing no one's been arrested but there's a physical description of a possible person of

interest that they do have uh they they're interested in they are looking for they're interested in talking to a man uh a white man weighing about 195 pounds about six foot one yeah um he's described as being a diabetic hitchhiker with a stutter oh that narrows it right the fuck down babe that's really that's really specific he's a diabetic hitchhiker with that's have we ever had that trifecta that might be a no one there was diabetic in the world you're right the three of them there's probably a bunch of stutter and hitchhikers maybe a few hitchhiking diabetics but the three the three together doesn't seem that seems really like a lot. Got him. Very specific.

We should have this crime wrapped up in 10 minutes. Right? I'll never see you. Oh, the boy. Yeah, he's hitchhiking. Yeah, I've seen him. Well, there's three hitchhikers in town. Any of them you see injecting insulin into themselves while stuttering.

Fuck, that hurts. If you hear that, that's our guy. You ever seen one walk up to a pharmacy and ask for... We're not making fun of anybody stuttering, by the way, because... Not a stutterer, not even a diabetic. It's just... We talk enough to stutter ourselves. Out of those two, three things. It's just weird.

It's just a weird combination of things. Not that it's weird to be a diabetic or weird to be a stutterer. It's a little weird to be a hitchhiker, but three of them together you're just like what somebody hitchhikes to a pharmacy and asks for insulin then fucking arrest them that's the guy that's the man to walk them up down holy shit uh one man they'd like to speak to uh or we'll talk about for a second here is a hitchhiker let's talk about him it's a man named dennis d perkins uh we believe from what i found it's possibly david okay even almost everything is d so dennis d perkins he's 31 years old he's born april 20th 1957 so um and he's also

got a birthday with hitler so there's good. Yeah, he sure does. Jesus. He is a hitchhiker from San Jose, California. Got a long way. And he hitchhikes all around. And we'll find out, as I did when I looked it up and really did some deep dive newspaper archive shit. He's been hitchhiking for a long fucking time. Really? This is like he's like a professional hitchhiker. He's 31 years old at this point

and i found an article from over 10 years earlier from 1977 wow from indiana here and it says the title of the article is hitchhiker robbed two are arrested all right it says two men were arrested on charges of armed robbery shortly after the robbery of a hitchhiker near the riverside cafe in benton township wednesday night a deputy said dennis d perkins 20 of san jose california told them he was hitchhiking in the saint joseph area when he was picked up by the two men he told deputies the men drove him around a while dropped him off at the Riverside Cafe, then returned and robbed him of $200 at gunpoint.

Wow. So they dropped him off. He seemed like he got money. Let's go home and get the gun and then go back and rob him. Rich motherfucker. Dude, can you imagine that? That thought, you're going to rob people. Once you drop them off, you missed it. That's it.

There's no more. You're not robbing them anymore. And two guys, your haul is $100 a piece? $100 a piece, baby. And they're arrested for armed robbery now at gunpoint. So the deputy went to the Riverside Cafe to get Perkins and bring him back to the sheriff's department to interview him. And while he was there, Perkins saw the people who robbed him at the police at the police station and the cop who brought him in arrested him arrested not him but the two guys

who robbed him charged him with armed robbery here so there you go uh garland cook jr and donald clyde stamp a couple of idiots guys yeah yeah they had a sawed-off shotgun and a large caliber revolver when they were arrested, too. So they were serious. Yeah, they were. So that did not deter this man from hitchhiking. He's still going. He was held up by the sawed-off shotgun in like a.357.

Yeah. And he's like, I mean, that happens once in a while. And then he kept going for another over 10 years. This is wild. for another over 10 years this is wild so in 1988 here 11 years later he was hitchhiking through kansas and found himself in oakley both stranded and broke okay so just shit out of luck in oakley didn't know what to do seems like he's probably been there before if he's been hitchhiking non-stop for the last 11 years that's probably yeah a thing that he's used to by now i would say running out of money i imagine is is a very common thing for

him and but how do you how do you run out of how do you keep doing that as that's his profession he's labeled quote-unquote hitchhiker in the newspaper that's what that guy does you gotta expect that you're gonna to have nothing eventually. Eventually, every day you're going to have. You're living day to day to day. Maybe I can get a job for $20 tomorrow so I can buy some breakfast and get a ride to the next town. Like, that's a that's a rough way to live, man. I mean, that's people don't live like that anymore that much. Like, that was a very I mean, maybe they do.

But that used to be almost like a like a like an archetype like a character right you know that he's this drifter you know that comes in and like there's drifters all around then he comes in and you know he just drifts in and oh he's a dark kind of guy and the local all the young ladies are interested in the drifter you know what i mean like that like back in the day but like that sort of weird shit there's never been a interested in the drifter. You know what I mean? Like that, like back in the day, but that sort of weird shit. There's never been a guy in the movie. Here I go again. Song.

There's never been a guy that's portrayed as that in a movie or any other sort of media that has all of his teeth. They're all just. No, no. It's a mess. There used to be some handsome ones back in the day, but they'd be a murderer then. That was the thing. If they were any, if they were a handsome hitchhiker, that just meant they were going to like murder whoever picked them up and terrorize their whole family and carve up their grandparents.

That's all that meant. What a wild choice to make in your life. I'm just going to go. I'm going to go see things. And just keep going. I mean, when you run out of money, you just thumb it to the next town. And you stop and you're like, well, I don't know what's here, but I guess I live here today. You've got to be really comfortable with the with the with your raw smell.

Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's no way you're keeping hygiene up. No, there's no way. You're going to know what you smell like in about two days. Yeah. You have to be have a certain, I guess, a certain pH balance on your own.

Yeah. If you're one of these people, it's very stinky, very quick. This is gonna be a rough life for you. No one's going to want to give you a ride. It's not good. And you're going of these people that's very stinky very quick this is gonna be a rough life for you no one's gonna want to give you a ride it's not good and you're gonna find out real fast what it is because yeah they're gonna what's the score well it's as far as i'm going just dropping you off i'm gonna need some soap so dennis doesn't know what to do with himself he's stuck in oakley um and he's just shit what do you do so he gets very lucky and he is picked up by Jeff Harsh do we

remember who Jeff Harsh was he's the owner of the country club motel I really want to know if that is the Annie Oakley now I really want to know if that has turned into the Annie Oakley I'm dying to know if that's the same motel because it would make a lot of sense

so anyway well we'll look it up after the show. So don't bother tweeting us about it. There you go. So he owns this motel. And what he does is he extends a helping hand to people who are down on their luck all the time. Like anybody blows through town and has no money and just you know came in on a on a tumble weed or something he rode in on a twister he done rode in on a twister just landed in my front lawn i don't know what to do with him i'm gonna help him out all right so he uh says that it usually

works out too he's been rewarded and just it's rewarding to do this he said that it usually works out, too. He's been rewarded, and just it's rewarding to do this. He said that it's paid off. He said, quote, these are people who can't handle life, but they're talented people. Some of them turn out rather well. We had one guy who now runs his own business, which, I mean, a lot of people run their own business. That doesn't mean that it's on the up and up. Is he taking credit? Oh, yeah, he's taking credit.

He goes, some of them turn out rather well. You know, I gave him a place to stay for a single night, and then he went on to be a billionaire. Clearly, I did that. I bought him some pie at the diner, and I think that was the catalyst to make him want to be successful. I don't know what it was. Now the man's got grandkids.

He said, I want pie every night. And then I said, well, you're going to have to work hard. Next thing you know, he runs Apple. He invented it. That was Steve Jobs. Now he likes turtlenecks and almonds. Steve Jobs was a drifter. And yeah, I gave him a pie.

I believe it was. I think it was Apple. I'm going to say the pie was Apple, I believe. But he was just fine after yeah so i mean another guy came through i gave him a book on the on on tesla on nickel and he sat down and he said you know pal i'm gonna pay you back for this one day started paypal started tesla it was crazy because he had run out of gas when he came into town. He said, these goddamn cars I need a car that

don't take fuel. And we just got to talking and the next thing you know he was a really crazy arrogant lunatic who was two seconds away from collecting his own urine into jars. He's so interesting. He's getting to be howard hughes level he's so fascinating you should see how fascinating

his wife is yeah that's fascinating so but i mean he's right though some people can't handle life but they do have talents that are you know i guess on unfounded or not found yet i guess would say unfounded is a different thing but he at the same time he's saying he seems to be taking a lot of credit for pulling this out of adults who've had a lot of time see what i like to do is just discover talent a lot of people uh call me the college football coach of drifters that's what it is i'm also putting together a boy band if you know anybody any youngsters who can sang and dance i'd be interested in them so one guy owns his own business like i said no idea what that business is could be literally anything he could be he

could be trafficking children to malaysia we have no idea he's got an sc page yeah that's but you know what successful it's better than drifting killing it so one guy he helped was david perkins uh here david d perkins or i'm sorry dennis d perkins dennis david perkins so dennis perkins was one of the guys that he picked up he found him uh the way harsh put it he said he quote collected perkins like a baseball card he collected him off the side of the road like a pokemon gotta catch them all yeah that or just like i was i collect garbage i collect like things that people throw out in front of their house he collected perkins who was a hitchhiker he arrived in the first week of december like

december 1st or november of the last day of November sort of thing. And he received a call from a local business owner along Interstate 70 that runs by this town. And the guy said, there's some guy out here hitchhiking. There's some drifter. I know that that's your thing. Maybe you want to come over here and grab him. Yeah.

And so this guy harsh jumped in his car and went up and promptly picked up the hitchhiker here at Perkins. So I don't know what the hell kind of death wish this guy has. Anyway, Harsh said that he had accounts at two different restaurants in Oakley for people who need food and don't have enough money to pay for it. So there's people that know. Yeah. If you just go in and say, put me on Harsh's account, they know to just give you free food and the guy will pay for it, which is pretty cool. That's really a nice thing to do.

He started also a program where people are paid $15 a day and given a place to stay at the motel for working there for the day. They do maintenance or painting or some shit, $15 and a room. there for the day like they do maintenance or painting or some shit 15 bucks and a room so i mean that's if you're if you have no other choice if your choice is that or sleeping in a field i guess it's not too bad you get not you can get a meal you can get some you know make money and get a free place to stay both yeah i mean it's not a lot of money 15 bucks a day obviously but you know you factor the room into that and for a place to stay. I mean, at $55 a night, you're getting $70 a day.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's not bad if your other option is putting your thumb out and hoping to get a ride to an unknown location. $15 and you wash your ass. It's amazing. Yeah, that's the other thing. You can clean the fuck up. The hygiene

problem goes away. This guy Harsh owns motels in oakley colby and goodland yeah he's a real entrepreneur he says he's a real hilton he's a right he's the kansas hilton is what he is that's exactly right he said that so far about 30 people have accepted his offers to help. So he's tried to help about 30 wandering hitchhikers here. So that's been his goal. He said, though, when he met Dennis Perkins, he was actually hesitant to take him in at the time because he and his wife, Shirley, this is harsh. And his wife, Shirley, planned to leave for barbados on vacation yeah this guy when you own three shitty motels you have barbados money you got barbados money you got west indies money baby yeah you're going down there he's gonna have an umbrella and a fruity drink yeah

fucking now it's on something in a coconut let's do it you know it's shirley's a she's got a new bikini for the occasion she's putting you make me anything with corn in it we're gonna fight oh man no corn down here uh harsh was also scheduled to speak down there at a convention on the dangers of herbicides so okay there's also that that he's doing he's like bug spray shit that goes on yeah on your on crops i guess so yeah he's an environmental guy also so he's got. He's like bug spray. Shit that goes on your on your on crops. I guess. Oh, yeah. He's an environmental guy also.

So he's got a lot of interest. He's a great dude. Herbicides and hitchhikers. That's his. Those are his two things. So he said that he ended up giving David Perkins this job. And because Alice Pepper, no pepper, pepper, pepper. As we remember from before before she's the manager there

she has wanted some painting done around the motel so she said if you can get me one of these guys for your 15 in a room deal i'd love to have them because i need some painting done yeah so harsh said fine we'll bring him in uh he'll do that he said that perkins made him nervous for some reason uh he made he said david or dennis Perkins made a comment that made him nervous, but he couldn't remember exactly what it was. It was just something where he was like, I don't know if I like this guy or not. But he said, fine, I'm going to go to Barbados

and leave him with my 59-year-old motel manager all alone, and we'll see how that works out. I'll be in Barbados. Have a good one. That makes me uncomfortable. I'm going to go find Rihanna. Yeah, this will be much better down there. I'm going to go find Rihanna. Yeah. This will be much better down there. I'm going to hop on a fucking La Bamba plane and head down for some mixed drinks. So Alice, like we said, is Alice L. Pepper.

She's 59 years old. She was raised on a farm. So, I mean, she's lived around here her whole life. Yeah. She's raised on a farm three miles north of Russell Springs. She attended school in Winona, and she has a brother and two brothers as well. So, three kids total. I'm sorry, a brother and three sisters she had.

So, she grows up with, yeah, a big family, five kids on a farm. Sounds pretty Kansas. She's basically Dorothy. Yeah. And she's born in 1929 also. So when Wizard of Oz came out, she was like 10 years old. So if you were like a little girl in the middle of nowhere in Western, her house probably looked just like Dorothy's.

You know what I mean? Like that's what shit looked like there. Like that must have been amazing. Like holy shit. Look. Oh man, if only I could just be unconscious for a while. Yeah. Get out of this goddamn place.

I want out of here too. Oh man, I'd hang out with a fucking lion and a goddamn talking scarecrow if it'll get me out of this fucking place. Even those creepy little people with the weird voices. I'm in. Let's do it. I'll fight a witch, goddammit. That's how determined I am to me out of this fucking place. Even those creepy little people with the weird voices, I'm in, let's do it. I'll fight a witch, goddammit. That's how determined I am to get out of here. So she grows up, she ends up being married, but in her 50s, she gets divorced.

Okay. There's a divorce here, which happens, she has two grown sons and two grown daughters. Yeah. She didn't like him a long time ago. Yeah, that's what happens. A lot of people, they used to do it a lot more, but they have four kids.

We'll wait until they're all gone and out of the house and to college, and then that's it. You know what I mean? We're doing this for the kids. That's what I, yeah. Who knows here what happened or somebody had a midlife crisis.

I don't know what's going on, but they end up getting divorced and she has to start over in her 50s here. So that's never easy, too, to start over at that point. You don't expect that you have to do that. So she worked at this motel for about two years since the divorce and been trying to get back on her feet. She worked as a maid before she moved into the management job.

Really? Yeah, she started out as a maid. Harsh, the owner, he says, quote, she didn't have a whole lot of confidence, but she really blossomed. She was a simple little woman who never had been anywhere. The motel was her love. She loved the business and she loved to meet people. It isn't like I have employees. We're all partners working together.

We're a family. Yeah. So she brought it. So this guy really together. We're a family. Yeah. So she brought it. So this guy really likes to take credit for people. Yeah. She really blossomed. I mean, for 50-something years, she was just a simple little woman, timid. And then she came here.

Once I got her in here cleaning people's shitty toilets, then something about it just, she blossomed, man. A whole different person no one's ever been able to reach her but i don't know i had her in here cleaning fucking toilets and now she's fine once she got that turndown going now it's all roses which is amazing you know start her own cookbook uh watch her be uh betty crocker's uh rival i mean i feel like she finally has the confidence for a YouTube channel now. That's what it was. Her baking skills are amazing.

I said, you got to put them cupcakes on YouTube and teach people how to do it. She's like, no, I don't think so. I'm not. I want people looking at me. And now she just puts on that makeup. She's ready to go. Puts on her ring light and fires it right on up, and she's ready to show off. Cooking with pepper so alice here she gives dennis perkins a room at the country club motel and has him paint and fix up

things in the hotel there's a light fixture broken here and he's just doing general maintenance and shit like that um so uh but when before harsh left uh to go to the barbados trip he did warn alice about perkins he said that uh he told alice quote i don't know what it is but there's something about that man just watch yourself just be careful you know keep an extra eye on him. That sort of thing. I don't know why he would let him stay there with her. How about I'll get him a room somewhere else until I get back into town and feel more comfortable with this. He said something that made you uncomfortable. It's like seeing a big cat eat some meat and then it starts to grow this long circular circular hair around its face and you're like i think that's a lion but i can't tell and then you're like keep an eye on this i'm gonna lock

this door up i'm not sure what keep an eye on it it makes me uncomfortable i seen him transform from an 18 wheeler to a robot he might turn back into an 18 wheeler so keep an eye on him i'm not sure he said his name was optimist i don't know what's happening i'm suspicious is what i'm telling you that's all just a little bit i'm gonna go be a rude boy for the weekend there we go all right then the call of the steel drums is drawing me in boy let's get down there it's time they're playing Disturbia. I got to run.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Oh, man. So he Perkins. He's working there for a week. Yeah. Everything's fine. She tells everybody harsh calls to check in and, you know, from the Barbados.

And she tells him that everything's fine here. He's working out really well. He's painting. He's fixing shit. Everything's fine. Perkins even starts to like make friends around town he had a couple of local places there's a bar he hangs out at and people know him there yeah they're very good at that yeah so he's he knows how to make friends so he's going

around making friends he's kind of he's kind of settling down a little bit here so after a week it seems like everything was was fine and And then December 7th comes along. They find Alice, like we described. And we'll get into the forensics of it here. But we find Alice, like we described, murdered and dead. And then all of a sudden, they can't find Dennis Perkins anymore. Where the hell is Dennis? So when they do find her, they find, like we said, 47 cents in the register.

Now, the autopsy finally here reveals that the death was due to asphyxiation caused by the coat hanger and possibly the electrical cord. Those were the one of the two did that knife occurred after death. There were reddish markings at the opening of her vaginal area there indicating penetration by some kind of object but they can't be sure what because no semen was detected in the examination so um they also attempt to take fingerprints from the room and they do uh they don't find dennis perkins fingerprints anywhere there, even though he's gone and they're suspecting him. But they do find, like I said, the quarter with the hole in it missing. When they ask around to all of the local stores to see if anybody had brought in a quarter with a hole in it, they do find that on the morning of December 7th, Dennis Perkins gave a quarter with a hole in it to a clerk at a convenience store.

So he did do that and uh they asked well what was he did he look okay what was his demeanor like and they said he seemed fine except he had scratches on his cheek that were about a finger width apart yeah so you know where he looked like he got in a fight with a lady uh look like i don't know a lady was fighting for her life maybe with him. But other than that, I can't think of anything. Nothing else was off the hook. I can't think of anything really. It's just a woman scratching and clawing for the very right to breathe. But other than that, I don't think anything was out of order.

Everything else seemed fine. Everything else was right on cue here. So, yeah, that's a clue, i would say uh he had the quarter and had scratches on his face they also found a blood stain uh on her house coat nearby her body that was determined to be consistent with a blood type found in about 13.5 percent of the caucasian population of the country so that's what they find out. The blood stain was not consistent with Alice's blood. So they're thinking that's probably your perpetrator's blood.

Somebody else bled in here. Somebody else is bleeding. In western Kansas in 1988, the availability of DNA testing was not exactly that much. We can say zero. Zero, yeah. Major cities, it would take a long time, and it was really, it still wasn't, they could find markers, but it wasn't an exact thing like it is now, where they're like, one in 13 billion.

It wasn't that. Then it was more like, well, we've narrowed it down to one in 60,000 or some shit like that they would be able to do. are like well we've narrowed it down to one and sixty thousand or some shit like that they would be able to do so um now shirley who was the owner harsh there that's his wife yeah she's on her she's back from barbados now tan she's all tanned up saying like coconut boat oh man she's like i just i can feel that coconut in my hand right now at the straw it's called coconut boat it's not is oil yeah the boat banana boat it's called yeah coconut oil yeah there you go yeah yeah so does it smell like banana no it smells like coconut oh okay on a banana boat on a banana boat so um the she's she clarifies that she put a hundred dollars in the register before they left that day, so it should have been that there.

Now, they end up, they're looking for Dennis, obviously. They want to talk to him, clearly. Now, there's an employee of a pool hall in Scott City, I believe it's called. Yes, Scott City nearby. An employee of a pool hall who was home on her day off. All right. This is in another town. Some pool hall employee home on her day off listening to a police scanner at 1220 p.m.

When she as most people do usually. It's only my grandmother did that. Just sitting on your day off. What are these guys up to. Oh racist. Nan used to sit all night and listen to the police game. What? I swear to God, she never slept. You know how I don't sleep much?

Yeah, right. Both of my grandmothers never sleep. Like, they never sleep. My Italian grandmother still doesn't sleep. Right. She's 93 and a half dead. She still doesn't sleep. But racist Nan, I've never seen her sleep.

She doesn't sleep. If you, as a kid, if I woke up at three in the morning to get a drink or pee or something, I would hear the scanner going and you'd look out there and she was in a chair in the dark sitting next to the scanner listening to shit. I don't know why. James, she was paranoid. Oh, she was absolutely paranoid. She was terrified of somebody coming to get her.

But it was more nosy. She was nosy. She needed to hear if something happened to somebody she knew and they got arrested or somebody got in a car accident so she could tell somebody else. She was so nosy. Police scanners rarely give a name, right? Isn't it just mostly? No, no. Sometimes.

No, they do when they're like checking for, you know, they call in thing they're calling in a license they call in the person's name and they're all that shit and they check them over yeah she's just sitting there with like a like a whiskey all dead my mother and i me and my mother got in a car accident when i was like eight years old where the car flipped and rolled over a bunch of times right it was a bad car accident and my father got a call at work from my grandmother before the the cops called him to tell him about it hey uh because she heard it on this i heard it she heard it on the scanner and knew that it was my mother's car because i was late she was dropping me off to get the buses to go to school and she was late dropping me off and that's the kind of car she had.

So they're on the highway. They're on the road, flipped over. You better go check them out. At that point, though, that just encourages you to keep doing that because you're like, well, it worked in one part of my life. I'm never going to not do this. She just did it. Yeah, she always did it. That damn scanner always on.

My grandmothers did weird shit, and the other one would make you pick the lawn to eat it. Fascinating. Yeah. That was embarrassing. And then the other one would tell us to go pick the lawn to eat it. I'm making a salad. Go get the dandelion. Machi cor.

That's what she'd go. Machi cor. And we'd have to go, get the chikor. Me and my cousin would be like, oh, pick the lawn. People are going to see us doing this. It's so embarrassing. Because we're like like you don't know you watch flowers in your fucking dinner you'd be like yeah we don't want to eat the lawn this is

fucking stupid people are going to think we're fucking goats that's what we would say we'd be like grandma this is america this isn't like in italy in 1932 you don't have to pick the lawn you can go to the store and she's like mom it's my it's free in the lawn you go get the chicor you're like fuck god damn it she'd force us to go out there and do it and we'd be like you son of a bitch so we'd pick it all we were so embarrassed when you're a kid you'd see like sitcoms and shit no one was ever eating the lawn no no one that wasn't a normal american child activity jays i've never heard of it until you told me you did it. That's what I mean. It's so weird. But for Italians, it's very common to eat the fucking lawn. And I can't help but see whenever I see dandelions now, I go much of core and I feel like I should be picking it and eating

it because otherwise I'm like wasting something because you grain this into my brain. It's not bad. It's a it's it's like chicory you buy in the grocery store. my brain. It's not bad. It's like chicory you buy in the grocery store. Is it good? It's like a bitter. It's like a bitter green. It's not sweet? No, it's a bitter one. It's good with the balsamic. I mean, I've picked it to blow the seeds off and it's milky white shit

in the middle. No, no. You don't use the stalk. You just use the leaves around it. The big leaves. The chips are ugly. Yeah, you throw out the flower part and you use the leaves around it the big leaves that's ugly yeah you throw out the flower part and you use the leaves and then you cut the root you know the bottom part off and then that's chicory that's chicory and we used to eat that every night and she'd say but after a while if we pick it all we'd have to be going like down the street we'd be like it there's like the grass between the curb and the sidewalk we'd be like looking through it looking for fucking dandelions we're like people are gonna see us this is so not cool go out there and get the

get the ones in the crack that were watered by cars driving by splashing water into the cracks side of the sidewalk was just dog piss that's all for dogs pissed it was fine we were like i guess this is what we're picking and eating for dinner. And that was Pomeranian pissed on her fucking salad. Grandma. Well, that's what you eat. I wash it. My wash it. What do you care?

I wash. That's disgusting. Okay. I guess we're eating the grass now. We're like, no, my kids are Michelin's and somebody's fucking Pomeranian. I remember saying no other kids have to eat the lawn, Grandma. Okay? I don't know anybody else who has to eat the lawn.

This is fucked up. That's how I grew up. My grandma made fucking rhubarb pie and she would grow it. And that shit is disgusting. Oh, yeah. What does rhubarb taste like? It's kind of sweet-ish and mostly nothing. Ish?

Mostly nothing. I mean, it looks like it would be sweet and good. It looks like it, but it's not that sweet. It's an ugly plant. And anytime I had friends over at my grandma's house, I would rush them into the inside so that they didn't look to the right and see my grandmother's rhubarb patch. It's gross. It looks awful.

And it's fucking embarrassing. But at least we aren't eating the lawn let's say at least you grew it on purpose it wasn't weeds that grew in the yard yeah that we had to then pick and and fucking eat for dinner nobody's ever said pull the weeds we're having a salad that's yeah that's what she would say she'd say my jimmy jesse might go get the chicory and be like, come on. No, we don't want it. We don't want salad tonight. My eating a salad, get the chicory. And she'd have to have a damn salad every fucking night. Goddamn salad.

So anyway, sorry to get off on that tangent. But the police scanner just made me think of my grandmother sitting there. At 1220 p.m., this employee of the pool hall on her day off listening to the police scanner. And here's a description of the suspect that they broadcast to local law enforcement agencies of keep an eye out for, like we said, 195 pounds stuttering, hitchhiking diabetic. Yeah. So. So. It's a quick day.

It's a quick day. She takes it upon herself. Very little for this. She's got not a lot going on. I feel like this person uh she takes it upon herself to call the tavern that she works at on her day off to ask whether any customers there fit the description of that she just heard on the radio that are there right now yeah anybody in there that sound like that right now just checking i don't know what

how many calls she was planning on making to try to track this person down start at work start at work and go from there hey ma where are you grocery store hey let me ask you a question yeah you see anybody just looking for ask people if they're diabetic if they stutter haul them in citizens arrest you see someone rushing to the register with a hershey bar in their hand going my sugars sugars are low. Just tackle him. Knock the bar from his hand and tackle the man. And tell him to say a lot of B and D words and see how it comes out. And we'll find out if that's our guy. So she asks and they said, no, not right now.

But then 20 minutes later, she gets a call back saying that a man just walked in who did fit that description. Yeah. Guy they don't know, about 195 pounds. That's for a cranberry juice. Yeah. Well, the cranberry, too, wouldn't have been easy. So the cops come over there to Scott City, and he's drinking a beer. Dennis Perkins just drinking a beer, hanging out.

And they come, and they come and they say they'd like to bring him in and talk to him about some stuff when they search him he has 77 dollars and 60 cents in his pocket okay so he's been making 15 bucks a day for a week now he is so i mean that's yeah that's uh that would be like pretty much he hasn't spent any of his money yeah there almost so it's you know that's a little it's a stretch that he'd had 77 60 in his pocket um so scott city was about 45 miles south of oakley now they uh this is uh they they go in there and they he apparently had hitchhiked to scott city from oakley and uh he said he's been working he's been a handyman he's been you know

painting rooms and he just decided to move on. He's, I'm a hitchhiker. This is what I do. Where do you think I was before that? Not longer than a week. That's what I fucking do. I go from sunglasses town to sunglasses town. I'm being Ray-Ban New Mexico next week.

That's how it is. The way that you say it, boy, it's going to be something. So he says that they said, well, we're going to take you in for questioning of a murder, considering that you were seen giving the lucky quarter away. You're our guy right now. So we're going to go ahead and talk to you. As they bring him in, the county attorney there has been 30 years with no murders. He also says that Perkins may be a suspect in a similar murder in San Jose, California.

So they're looking at him for that, which if this guy did this here, this isn't the first time he's done this. This is the first time he was around $70 that he could have. I don't think so. So this is just back in the day in the 70s and 80s. You could murder people and move along to the next town and nobody would fucking notice. It's unbelievable. It's wild how you could do that. There's so many unsolved murders from that time that probably could be solved now if anybody had time to go back through all of these cold cases.

Were they so busy investigating murders in their town that they couldn't have time to uh cooperate with everybody do you know what i mean like yeah it's amazing that nobody thought of that idea in a 40-year run in america of just murders happening willy-nilly yeah because that's why they always happen off of highways there's so many murders off of highways you can get back on the highway and you could be somewhere else real fast yeah and that's what it is suspect anymore yeah that didn't used to be used to have to take a back road and people well he's on the road from here to here we'll go get him you know what i mean like on deadwood when they they killed that family it was like it was all there's only one road from here to here it must have been you and they killed the guy so

um they go back to mr harsh here and talk to him yeah and they're like so um how'd that charity work out yeah yeah how was that yeah first of all how's barbados yeah how's shirley i'm sure it was great excellent uh but they say that this he says that this happening could end his good samaritan activities this guy could have ruined it for everybody basically that's what happens yeah it's like in you know in elementary school you have a substitute teacher and they're kind of nice and some kids start like throwing spit balls and shit and you're like hey chill the fuck out the teacher's being nice it's like that but with murder right you know it's one guy one guy goes and stabs another kid and then the teacher really makes everyone stay in their chairs after that you know what i mean

it's a problem and then all of a sudden it's dangerous minds. It's dangerous. That's what it turns into. He says, they ask him about Perkins and he says, quote, all I remember is my gut feeling at the time.

I should have stayed there. I take the blame for this really. I should have been on top of it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we said. And I mean, you told a woman,

a man makes you uncomfortable and then you left her with him. Keep an eye on him. But she said she was fine. That's what we said. And I mean, you told a woman a man makes you uncomfortable and then you left her with him. Keep an eye on him. But she said she was fine. That's what the deal was. She said, he's fine. I need painting done. It's going to work out just fine.

I feel safe here because you feel safe at the motel. And yeah. So, you know what? He should have said, you know what? I'm going to tell him to hold off a week till I get back. But it didn't happen. They asked her brother her what the fuck her brother's name is john potter p-o-t-t-e-r-f what is that just like

pepper what the hell is going on over there it's the same thing it's a four letter and then earth instead of earl it's the same holy shit there's like a formula of name you just replace consonants don't go places um wow he said quote she was a pleasant person and always worked hard I think everybody liked her um he said that anyone who worked at the same motel as his sister could have been a murder victim and uh he said that it's a bad deal with harsh picking up those hitchhikers yeah he's so like it he puts it in the paper that you know it's a bad deal with Harsh picking up those hitchhikers. Yeah, he doesn't like it. So he puts it in the paper that, you know, it's his fault that he picks up those hitchhikers, which this guy feels bad, too. And Harsh said he feels like the brother probably isn't alone in his feelings.

And he feels like kind of he feels a general wave of antipathy toward him from the town for this. He said that several citizens in the community have criticized his activities over the years and he's like shit um he says quote now i'm really behind the eight ball their predictions have come true i'm taking this as handwriting on the wall actually jesus christ how many cliches can he speak in all of them apparently just all of them at once really i'm behind eight ball i'm actually taking this as handwriting on the wall and uh you know you fill it in with any other idioms that you might feel appropriate for this particular bound to be a bar today jesus yeah i mean it's all right

is what it is tomorrow is what it is man it's uh you know the a bird in the hands were two in the bush and i'm just saying that's what it is now. So I'm sorry. That's a man that doesn't know what to say. He's just, he's just locked and loaded with bullshit. Yeah. He's just like,

I mean, it's just, I'm just handwriting on the wall. I'm behind the eight ball on this. He says that, uh, Perkins had, uh,

expressed during, this is funny too. He says when they arrested or took uh denison for questioning here he was talking shit about harsh right away they didn't like him and say really shit yeah and also he says about perkins quote his feelings toward society are not too good that's that's their description of perkins um harsh said he was talked to some of his employees, though, and they said they were shocked by what happened. They couldn't believe it. They thought they were all in this together.

And Harsh said, quote, We are basically we are all basically one. When someone goes in and defiles nature and all the laws of the universe, it creates bad energies and bad energies that you can't even believe. and you bad energies that you can't even believe he said he planned to keep the motel closed until ministers could visit the business and perform an exorcism so he's gonna fucking sage the place what are you doing not even not even like just cleanse it he's going to exorcise it right he wants a full-on exorcism here to throw holy water everywhere, drag some crosses down the halls. Yeah, that's a little much, I think. And Reverend Donald McCarthy agrees at it. He's the one officiating at Alice's funeral.

He says that it's rare, an exorcism. And he says, quote, it's only used in extraordinary situations. It would probably not be done in a case like this. Yeah. He did say that it's not unusual for a building to be blessed after a traumatic event. So you can do that. So finally, let's talk about this because I've been waiting. Dennis Perkins at the police station.

Yeah. Okay. They sit him down. First of all, he's in the Scott City Jail because they brought him in there from the bar. He's read his Miranda rights at the jail by Gary Ledbetter, the chief of police of Scott City. He's got, I'll handle this one. I got this. I got it.

I got it. I got it. He's a big shot. I'm a big shot. We don't talk about it. He gave Perkins a waiver form with the rights printed on it. But Perkins indicated that he couldn't read or write. Awesome.

You know, when you're drifting, there's just no time to pick up a book when you're, when you're hitching. Um, the police chief read each statement to him and asked him if he understood each right. And he replied yes to each right. And then they asked,

uh, the police chief asked Perkins if he wanted to rave, wave his rights and talk. And he replied, yes. So he showed Perkins how to mark the form and where to sign it. So all that shit. Another police officer, Greg Davis, arrived at the police station and again advised Perkins of his rights using the same procedure.

And Perkins again waived his rights and agreed to talk. So there's that. And here's this is recorded from here. This Davis says, quote, But you do realize this is while they're trying to get him to talk after he waives his rights, okay? He says, but you do realize sometimes, Dennis, that we can there's only so much help that

people can give you, all right? And a lot of it depends on the help that you're willing to put out for yourself, right? So they're just trying to get him to answer questions, yes, so then he'll answer. And he says, yeah, which isn't, there's not really not too much expansion he'll answer and he says yeah which isn't he's not really not too much expansion on it but he says yeah okay all right that's a start so davis says quote just like when you mentioned to me a little while ago and you know that's by

by getting these things out by facing these things that that that helps that begins the first step and perkins says that's what scares me too so they're like okay that's something we're getting somewhere so davis says and this is a great quote he says quote i know it scares partner i know it scares partner yeah uh but we're here we're here with you all right yeah so we're gonna all hold hands and drive off the cliff together we will come by y'all together uh you don't have to go through it alone i mean the prison part yeah you're gonna be alone there but right now we're with you we're gonna drop you off at the front of the jail they're gonna take you in there i'll never see your ass again you don't have to

you don't have to go through all the horrible shit where you recount it and then we throw you in fucking jail for it. We'll go through that with you. And then we're here. I know. I got a wife and kids and we're having a dinner. I got a dinner plan. I gotta do this again next week with another guy like you. Shit. I gotta go home and pick the goddamn lawn or my wife's gonna kill me. She wants

chikar salad. I don't know what the fuck she is. She's from Italy. She's a weird bro. We're right here with you, all right? You don't have to go through it alone. That's what I'm trying to tell you, all right? And at this point, Dennis Perkins opens up. Yeah. They're here with me.

I guess I will. So he said, he starts out by saying, listen, I got a split personality. All right. Okay? This is first of of all here i got two people inside me all right there's dennis yeah you're talking hot then how you doing dennis i'm good i'm good i'll go paint this room you know i'm a good guy dennis has a beer dennis has friends but inside me also is the drifter oh somebody put on that popping corn here we go the drifter yeah that's the funny way to hear this too the drifter and he said uh that he had been the previous night the night before alice died he'd been paid for his work at the motel and later the drifter told him to go to scott city because the drifter had done something bad. Hell yeah. The drifter done told me head over to Scott City because he done fucked everything up

for us here. I was like, God damn it. Now I got to move all my shit. Fucking drifter every goddamn time. It's at this point that the Davis turned the tape recorder off because he was like, I don't know if he's fucking with me or not. Right. tape recorder off because he was like i don't know if he's fucking with me or not right so then uh perkins dennis perkins tells davis that he was the drifter and that it's the drifter who quote

went into the motel office this is crazy he said she went in i went into the motel office and she was all hot and bothered for me and she wanted some and he and i was going and he was going to give it to her the drifter he's talking about he speaks as the drifters like another person so he said it was all hot and bothered for him and she wanted some and he was going to give it to her that is and he said that that's when the drifter done strangled her you know that works so at this point mark kendrick the special agent for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation and Officer Danny Shanks, they were outside the room. This is when they literally were like, they stop. We got to stop right here.

They go out and get those guys and like, you got to fucking come in here. You got to see this shit. No, for real. This is. No, no. We'll read him his rights against it. It's fucking wild. Check this shit out.

No, no. Come on, guys. Come on. You've never seen this shit before. Trust me. So they get him in there they uh again read his miranda rights and he waved him again they're like he's still gonna do it oh my god this is so crazy wait till my kids hear about this so it's at this point that he goes listen all right fine i'll tell all y'all the truth here this is what happened listen mate i got a split personality now one of them is dennis yeah

dennis tries to do good in the world okay dennis is my good side and the other is the drifter yeah and he's a he's evil he's evil that's how it works here corn husking son of a bitch he said there's two of dennis and the drifter oh oh wait a second hold on i got i forgot about bob i got a third personality it's no no it's bob uh he's a game show host it's really weird he just comes out sometimes walking down the street and he'll just pop up in front of someone and hand them prizes for no reason it's very strange what he does he's not like the drifter or, you know, Dennis, but he just hands stuff out. He asks people, how much do you think this conditioner is at the grocery store?

And if they're right, he just gives them like five dollars. So it's a weird personality. I understand. But that's what happens. Sometimes you're a drifter. No, Dennis and the drifter are real, but not the game show host. This is about to get loopy as fuck around here right he go he's just i got a fourth personality he's just a real normal guy just trying to find stable employment and

acquire health insurance but we don't listen to him very often we just i mainly listen to the drifter our fourth guy really hates our natural smell that That's what it is. So we just don't listen to him. He's an asshole. Shit, he doesn't listen. He tells us not to murder women in a sleazy, transient motel. So he says that he's got the drifter who's evil. He tells them again that on the night of December 6th, he'd gotten paid. He went out for drinks that night because he got paid. He said that he went back to the hotel and he but in well in the form of the drifter sure at that point uh he met alice at the front door of her office he said that and this is

really just pathetic here he says that she was wearing a nightgown yeah had on no bra probably because it was like one in the morning right you. You know what I mean? And she was probably going to bed. How ladies sleep. You know, how people sleep. And was, quote, swaying her ass at him. Hold on. She's swaying, quote, swaying her ass. Yeah, apparently you just, that's what you do. You put on a nightgown. I've never fucked a woman that wanted me to fuck her.

Apparently they present to you like a like a lion like a zoo animal like they present like a fucking mandrill can you smell it if you're not i gotta wave it at you try to get the wind waft in swaying her ass out of me um he said that he started choking her with a coat hanger as one does. He told the officers at this point that he did have intercourse with her, but not how you think. No. Because he said that, quote, Alice, quote, did not want to give it up. So he, quote, took some anyway. Okay.

Oh, my God. This guy is a fucking asshole. Then he said he, quote quote strangled her like a cat so he has strangled a bunch of cats is what that says to me this this guy in his drifting and i would assume serial killing basically he's probably killed some cats in his day because i've never heard the term strangled like a cat before it's true yeah i mean i've heard beaten like a dog which i find a weird like a dog like well you beat dogs what the fuck are you doing but strangled like a cat i've never heard before who you know how you strangle cats when you're a kid all the time right

you every cat you find you just strangle the laugh out of the little bodies you know that goes you know i've heard ring your neck because that's a turkey thing or a chicken thing yeah but that's actually yeah yeah just spin them spin their neck yeah that's a choke a cat strangle a cat strangled by strangled her like a cat don't know what that means um he then told them that you know it was after he strangled her that that's when he had sex with her he goes i had i had intercourse with her after she was dead it's because you know it's just easier that way took some he took some as he put it he told the officers then and this part is so so far hi i'm dennis oh by the way i'm also the drifter right um this lady was swaying her ass at me, so I had to take some. He has the arrogance of Dennis on It's Always Sunny. Yeah, he really does.

But you know what I always think of when I hear Dennis and through the whole time doing this research, all I thought of was the Wild and Wonderful Whites when that kid's like, Dennis is this. Dennis is this. And he's giving the finger. I hate Dennis. This could be like, this is a guy like Dennis would be.

That kid's father who blew through town. By the way, that kid is probably 20 now. What are the odds he's in jail? He's in his 20s. What are the odds that kid's in prison now? He has to be. He has to be. He didn't have a chance.

He never had a chance. No, his dad is this, Dennis, and he's this, which is fucking crazy. And then his mom is snorting pills off the back of a toilet in a sleazy dive bar with shirtless men playing slot machines in that type of place with other people, not even alone. Well, the band is complimenting her sister's tits. Yeah. And she's dancing like a stripper to like fucking Johnny Cash music.

Like, what is what the fuck are we doing ah sue bob with the titties uh you might want to go to prison if that's your kid wasn't she missing somebody posted that she was missing for like a couple bob was yeah the sexiest of the white family quote unquote as she put it wow okay so they found her and her titties and her sexy sexy sexy self now he has told them i'm dennis on the drifter i've now i've had sex with a corpse and i you know killed her because she was swaying her ass he said a lot of crazy shit now he says well they were like so you have you you are you attracted to dead people is that attractive to you and he said that well here's the thing i learned to have sex with dead bodies while working for undertakers in pennsylvania get

out of my life no uh so god knows how many people's if your relatives died somewhere in the in the state of pennsylvania between the late 70s and the early 80s, the drifter may have fucked them. Put it that way. Or the other undertakers who taught him the glory of having sex with corpses, apparently. I mean, at that point, he was already a drifter. He was a homeless guy because he was robbed in Indiana in the 70s. Yeah. He probably was drifting through and some undertaker paid him low wages to help him

do some weird shit late at night bodies or left him alone with corpses that he fucked or the oh my god he said he learned it from them he's learned it from him oh like this is how you really get like that is no option is good that is all bad um yeah no matter what however you end up fucking corpses it's not good there's a goat behind all those doors, Monty. It's just a goat and a bunch of hay. Oh, boy. So he is accused at this point. We're going to go ahead and charge this guy, I think, right?

This is getting bad. They charged him with first degree murder, rape and aggravated robbery. So this is his charges. And they said the robbery charge was because he ransacked the cash register. Now there's a delay in his trial. They delay it. It doesn't go on for a while because he has been it's been postponed while he undergoes court ordered psychiatric evaluation. Good call.

Because he's got some interest in some shit here. They put him at the diagnostic center in Topeka. And he's yeah, he's a goddamn mess. So before the trial, the defense files a motion to suppress his confessions, arguing that they weren't voluntary, which they found out that they was voluntary because he waived his rights like three different times. The judge says, quote, I think he effectively and of his own free will and without any coercion at all, waived those rights before he gave those statements. He did sign the waivers. Seems to me he was warned about his Miranda rights at least three times about what his rights were, so your motion to suppress is denied. So there you go.

They also bring up some psychiatrists at this point. Now, this isn't for competency. This is just for suppression here. Yeah, just for a good time. We want to see what his Rorschach says. Let's get some crazy shit out of his mouth. He thought that was a butterfly? He is crazy.

So Dr. Robert Shulman, who we'll hear about a bunch here, testified about his mental capacity to confess. He said that he examined Perkins here for a total of three hours. He said that Dennis has a verbal IQ of 67, which is very low, and he categorized it medically as mildly mentally retarded. Although he did say that he didn't do a complete IQ test, and he finds that Perkins functions at a higher level. So basically, I did nothing, is what he just said. I have no information for you. Nothing is what he just said. I have no information for you.

He testified at this hearing that Perkins was a primitive, regressed person. Jesus Christ. Regressed. Wow. With a limited capacity to assess reality with distortions and with distortions of reality. So he's a disaster is what he said he says that he diagnosed perkins as being a schizophrenic that is being split from reality rather than having to rather than having true multiple personalities okay like he thinks the drifter is real but it's it's not he's convinced of it though

yeah he's crazy because he because he thinks he has multiple personalities not because he actually does is what he's saying his testimony doesn't establish that he did not know right from wrong or anything like that. He didn't testify that Perkins was hallucinating or suffering from a delusion at the time of his confessions, and he doesn't testify that Perkins did not realize the words he was speaking. In fact, he thinks that Perkins is competent to stand trial. So they talk about

was he coerced though was his mental state in a way that was easy to coerce and they said that the interview showed no promises threats or coercion and that all the officers went to great lengths to inform perkins of his rights is it when someone's saying some crazy shit like that you got to make sure it's going to count you're like we got to make sure this all counts because this is fucking nuts i mean that's the game that's what you're supposed to do yeah yeah uh they said the judge says if anything the they said the officer was overly friendly to him and just i mean if a good interrogator knows how to approach someone and like they talk about it if you read books about this that some people you get right in their face that's how you get something out of them some people you get right in their face that's how you get

something out of them some people you act super friendly to them some people it's the authority figure some people it's a friend so it's you never know you have to immediately evaluate who this person is and what they what will get them to talk to you is a an interesting skill to have you know it's really interesting so he says that perkins got upset or reluctant to talk uh and never got uh or he got upset at one point and started talking about his past but that he didn't get any help when he needed it is what he kept saying so uh perkins said you know i needed help a long time ago and they never helped me he also testified that perkins was not competent to consent to make statements due to his severe emotional problems.

The doctor's conclusion was that based on the premise that Perkins could not understand the significance of waiving his rights and that Perkins just responded to the situation at hand. So there's that. Now, they said that the officers said that they were the opinion that he was behaving normally. He didn't have any crazy problems at the time. Perkins also argues that the waiver of his Miranda rights was not knowing. He said he didn't know what he was doing when he did that. When he said, I understand, he didn't understand?

He didn't understand at all. He was just trying to go along with stuff here. Now, a waiver of Miranda rights must be knowing, voluntary, and intelligent. At the suppression hearing, the doctor testified that he didn't understand what words mean. Literally, quote, Dr. Shulman testified that Perkins did not understand what words mean. That's an official state court document that this doctor said that. He also testified that he functioned at a higher level than his 67 IQ. He doesn't understand what words mean that's the greatest thing i've ever heard you ever say that in an

interrogation you're pretty well fucked yeah that's that's probably pretty well over he doesn't understand what words mean uh he also said that perkins uh um uh he doesn't understand what words mean and that he didn't understand the implications of the waiver of his rights. He said that while Perkins could understand that he had the right to a lawyer, he might not understand that he needed one at that point. So he says that he also testified that Perkins would also understand the words, quote, you don't have to tell us anything. But they said that wasn't said. He also said that as to the understanding of the implications they said that a recent survey of college students showed they did not they did

not even understand the complicate the implications of waiving the miranda rights most people don't understand what they're doing when they do that you know what i mean they just think oh yeah that means i'll talk for a minute is that true most people don't know what that means no this was yeah they did a thing a survey of college students most people don't know what that means no this was yeah they did a thing a survey of college students most people don't quite get exactly what it means that you know but that was in the 80s that that was that that was a thing right yeah yeah this is pre-law and order this is pre that was that was pre uh everybody goes to college too well also but anyway i was it was pre everybody's on tv every day yeah but my point is just that guys like me

and you who grew up in neighborhoods where people say don't you fucking talk to the cops when they read you those rights don't say a fucking thing you know what i mean kids that went to college they don't they don't they have zero care about talking to cops they've had less interaction where it might hurt them to talk to cops right where guys like me and you when you grow up in a neighborhood that's very specific to uh people being hass by the police, you don't fucking talk. No. Well, Jesus Christ, my grandmother, if you were being murdered, you wouldn't call the police. Now you handle it yourself.

You take care. You relatives get together and they go take care of the problem. I knew very young what my Miranda right warning is. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You know Miranda right warning is. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, that's shit. Yeah. I think also it depends if you're like you're white trash.

I'm Italian. These are you need to know your rights. Anything could happen. Anything that involves police interaction. What do I what am I legally required to do right now? That's all I have to do. Right now, that's all I have to do. So they said understanding that one has the right to a lawyer or not to talk is enough to show a knowing and intelligent waiver of Miranda rights to require more would void most of the waivers that have ever been signed in history. They said basically they said there is sufficient evidence to support the court's finding that the waiver was proper.

Now, for competency, he's saying he's not competent to stand trial. He's saying that's not how it works. Now, the law says that a person is incompetent to stand trial when he is charged with a crime and because of mental illness or defect is unable to a understand the nature and purpose of the proceedings against him or be make or assist in making his defense. So that's that's the legal definition of of not competent to stand trial. Is that shit in the 80s. In the 80s, in 88 right there. And pretty much still now. Is that what it is still? Yeah, it's the same thing.

Charged with a crime because of mental illness is unable to understand the nature. Basically, you have to not know that you're in court and not know what's going on. You have to be on another planet. Whereas it used to be like if you're mentally ill. Whereas it's not what it is now. Well, that's well that's insanity incompetent is just you don't know shit yeah you're incompetent to stand trial because you're that dumb or that mentally ill either one you know what i mean one or the other so prior to the trial they'd filed a motion to determine his competency to stand trial and they considered a couple of record of reports here um perkins though david or dennis

i'm sorry i keep saying that it's dennis david he says that the trial court found him competent to stand trial and that's bullshit uh he's like this is ridiculous here uh the first report the trial considered was by a guy named robert dysart dr robert dysart he was a psychologist he uh his report is inconclusive. He found Perkins to be hostile through the entire interview and said a rapport never developed. He said that Perkins displayed anger toward everyone and everything, which is what you want to show your court-appointed guy on a murder trial. He noted that Perkins seemed to have an unusually short attention span and difficulty concentrating, and he determined that Perkins had an antisocial personality disorder.

When Perkins was asked about the charges against him, he replied to the doctor, quote, I'm not sure I understand it. And when asked what murder meant, do you know what murder means? He replied, quote, put him to sleep. Go to sleep. So that's what he replied so that's yeah i mean yeah in a slang term yeah circles that's exactly what that means that's that's perfect uh when asked about his defenses uh what are you going to do for a defense he replied

quote can't use no defense i don't know what happened that's what his reply was to the doctor when asked by his attorney uh or asked about his, he rambled on about how he did not have any rights. So that's all he said. So the report concludes, quote, because of Mr. Perkins' lack of cooperation during this interview, it cannot be concluded with certainty that he's competent to stand trial. They said, though, however, based on the evidence presented, it would have to be concluded that he's not competent at this time. That's what the guy says. Another guy here, Thomas Rung, he's a psychologist. He said that Perkins exhibited no signs of psychotic disorder and that he was oriented to time, place, and identity.

The report said his memory is intact and that his cognitive functioning is good. They said although his intelligence is estimated to be within the borderline range, most likely due to very limited formal education, his comprehension and communication skills are quite adequate. He is, however, considered to be very angry, hostile, manipulative, and an impulsive individual who attempts to make himself appear worse off clinically and more pathological than he actually is. So malingering is what he said. Basically, he's fake. He knows enough. He knows enough to pretend he's nuts and that'll help him here. So they said, though, that he does.

He's well aware of the charges against him, knowledgeable about courtroom procedures and understood the responsibilities of a defendant in regard to working with an attorney. They said that he did understand the nature and purpose of the proceedings against him and he should be fine. So there's that. Dr. Shulman, he says that he was suffering from schizophrenia. He's that guy. He said a paranoid type and consequently had distortions of reality and poor judgment. He also said, in his opinion, Perkins did not understand the nature of his acts or understand whether they were right or wrong. he said that perkins understood that if he used drugs in front of a police officer he would be locked up but he also said that perkins would not have killed and raped peperl if a police officer had been standing there so basically they got him to say like so he understands that wrong shit equals you're

arrested why wouldn't you do that because you would be in trouble for it yes and they basically said that that defeated pretty much all of his for all of his testimony. This doctor was like, OK, well, why did you say all that shit? So the testimony, Dr. Schulman's testimony that he's legally insane was suspect. Also, in a written report, he said he only examined him for three hours and said he was legally insane, which is, you know, a little bit much here. And the only additional research he had done was listen to a 10 minute tape of a law clerk interviewing Perkins. So he has no background at all or anything like that. Yeah.

So they said that the other guy, the Tomics rung guy said that he determined that Perkins was attempting to be a to be faking a bad profile, trying to make himself appear worse. He gave him a complete IQ test and said that his IQ total was 72. So he has a 72, which is literally, I think, Forrest Gump's exact IQ. So that's what we're dealing with here. A necrophiliac Forrest Gump. You know what love

is james disturbing yeah love is whatever you find at the cemetery apparently um so uh also this guy testified that as beginning of his jail stay perkins claimed that the drifter was another personality but then admitted that he made it up later on. And well, yeah, the doctor said that Perkins is a sick individual, but he said that he could understand the nature of his acts and he's fine. Another psychiatrist here said that he showed no signs of schizophrenia and there was no evidence of hallucinations or paranoid delusional process. So it's basically 50-50 with the doctors. He says that after Alice was killed, Perkins left Oakley for Scott City, an act that could

easily be construed as him trying to avoid responsibility for the crime, which means he knew exactly what he was doing. So they said there is beyond a reasonable doubt that he is ready to stand trial here. They say, yes, you have to do it.

Competent to face prosecution. Now, during the trial, the defense is going for insanity that's their yeah that's their strategy insanity defense he's crazy obviously look at him here they said he's a schizophrenic and they said he talked about the drifter and strangled her like a cat and all that kind of shit they bring all that stuff up at one point the prosecutors are introducing evidence which is photos of the victim after she's dead right so they're handing those out as they're being put into evidence some are being distributed around the jury and more are being put into evidence and during this dennis objects yeah sort of right now he has his own special objection not based in any law or anything like that but he gives the most impassioned

impassioned courtroom speech i've ever heard in my entire life and we're gonna fucking it's amazing uh here's the transcript the court uh here says quote states exhibits four five and six will be admitted at this time you may publish those to the jury. This was after one, two and three. So at this point, he pops out of his chair, Dennis Perkins, and says, and I'm going to go through this fast like he did. And then we'll go through and break it down. He says, quote, blow my goddamn brains out. Don't stand a fucking chance, man.

I didn't choke that damn woman. I didn't rape that damn woman. I didn't rape that damn woman. I don't care what the hell you do with me. Just give me a fucking gun. I'll blow my fucking head off. You guys got the wrong man. Judge, you denied everything I had. You denied my constitutional rights for a new counselor for no reason.

You violated my right. I've got rights like anybody else. I'm just a hitchhiker. I didn't kill that woman, but I seen the person that did it. But if you want to, if you people don't want to fucking believe me, I am what I am. I'm a blooming hitchhiker. The DA man had a pleasure. He knows he's got an easy verdict to find me guilty.

People, I don't really care. My ass is six feet under if I go back to that jail. I guarantee it. I tried it once. I tried it twice. This ain't right. This is not right. I passed into this town and this is what I get.

A kangaroo court. Y'all are worse than Louisiana. Send me back to jail, man. Send me back to jail. You violated my rights, man. I don't care no more. This is not my rights. You don't know what it's called, man, to be a hitchhiker.

You people don't know what it's like living out there under a street, digging food out of a trash can. That woman was good to me. Why the hell would I want to hurt her? I feel sorry for the man that ever did this because he's a sick puppy and you guys won't fucking believe a word I say. I am what I am. Take it or leave it.

Get me the fuck out of here leon i don't give a damn no more that's leon's lawyer by the way he went hard that is impressive that's what he said and the court the judge said remove him from the courtroom and he said i don't give a damn no more bunch of sick motherfucking puppies you people are and they dragged him out of court so somebody told him that if if you don't deny it like crazy uh you're gonna look guilty well he did it like crazy all right he sure did my favorite is i am what i mean you guys don't know what it's like out uh to be you guys don't know what it's called man to, to be a hitchhiker. He's acting like that's a race of people. Like he was born a hitchhiker.

He can't help it. I can't help it. I was hitching in my jeans. It's just we born that way, and people going to try to come down on us for our ways, man. I was born with my thumb out. You know what I'm saying? Brought to you by Popeye. I am what I am.

I came out like that. Just thumb up man i got ready to hitch halfway down the birth canal because my thumb was too big it was too big and when i popped out the birth canal i didn't even hang around going one of them incubators i just kept my thumb out got a ride got the fuck out of that hospital man i've been drifting i jumped on an incubator with another kid that's right i said hey man you got room in that incubator for me and uh we took on off out of there so this is not my rights yeah i love that this is not my rights what's going on here my rights these are your rights judge it's giving my rights back i passed into this town this is what i get a kangaroo court you're worse than louisiana what happened

in louisiana oh they put people to death a lot down there they didn't do it i'd love to know what the hell he's talking about for a man who doesn't know shit he's very well versed in what's happened down in louisiana i'm telling you he says i love how in one sentence he says but you people don't want to fucking believe me in the next sentence he says i'm a blooming hitchhacker like he's he uses a euphemism at that point but says fuck like 14 times otherwise in the middle of open court he tones down goddamn or fucking or anything for blooming motherfucking at one point he says so that's sick puppies motherfucking sick puppies i got rights like anybody else i'm just a hitchhiker i like the da man had a pleasure he knows he got an easy verdict

he had a pleasure oh my god so after this the defense moves for a mistrial yeah based on that it's like well you can't cause a disturbance and then get a mistrial because you did that you know what i mean that's not you could have avoided that by not doing it so uh after the lunch break he refused to come back into the courtroom and was crying and shaking out in the hallway with while they were trying to get him into the courtroom uh so they held an in chambers conference on him and uh the judge expressed the opinion that he thought Perkins was acting he thought this was all bullshit and that he wanted Perkins that he had to behave in court and that Perkins had asked to be taken back to jail and to let the trial proceed without him which is what Richard Ramirez

did a bunch of times in court when he was too pissed off to sit there so they did that and the trial proceeded in his absence the next morning he again moved for a mistrial and moved for another competency evaluation. And the court denied both motions. He said, this guy's acting. Fuck him. Get him in here. We're going to get this over with here. Quote, it was noted that should Mr. Perkins become behaviorally or communicatively disruptive or uncooperative, either with his attorney or during criminal trial proceedings, it would be his nature and not the result of a major mental illness. So he said he's basically if he starts acting up in court, he's lying is what the last paragraph of his psych evaluation said he does testify yeah dennis he gets up there and he said that uh he his confessions all indicated that he was dead but at this point he said that he had had sex with dead bodies but then when they asked him about the dead body he's now all of a sudden he's like she was alive when i had sex with her she wanted it and she was alive he said that she wanted to sex with he's like, she was alive when I had sex with her. She wanted it and she was alive. He said that she wanted to sex with him and she was alive.

So I may be a murderer and a freak and all that, but I ain't raping women. You know, she wanted it. So the jury gets this deal here. And yeah, he's saying it was consensual sex and then he killed her for some reason. So the jury, they get instructions on second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter. They could, but the trial court only instructs on felony murder. The defense requested the instructions on second degree and involuntary be given as lesser included offenses of first degree murder and that an instruction on robbery be given as a lesser included offense of aggravated robbery. But the trial court denied the request and saying that the lesser included offenses to the felony murder, they wouldn't be instructed upon because the evidence of the felonies was strong. So the trial court does not have a duty or they do have the duty to instruct on lesser included crimes if it's valid.

Sure. But they said the evidence of the robbery is so strong. if it's valid. Sure. But they said the evidence of the robbery is so strong, a quarter with a hole in it that's known to have been kept in the cash drawer was given by him to a store clerk. So that's pretty goddamn strong. Yeah, that's damning as fuck.

Yeah, and they said that he earns $15 to $20 a day and was arrested with over $70 in his pocket. Cash drawer should have contained $100. It was empty. Pretty strong evidence of robbery. And then he got that money by killing Alice. So there you go. And so they said because there's such strong evidence of robbery and rape that he testified that he had sexual intercourse, that an instruction of a lesser included offenses wasn't necessary.

So the verdict comes in here. Oh, boy. Twelve, obviously, members. They deliberate for two hours. So not very long. That's not good. That's just long enough to fill out those forms, man. They deliberate for two hours. So, not very long. That's just long enough to fill out those forms, man. They didn't even have lunch. And so,

the jury came in, and they find him guilty of first degree murder. And they said the jurors found that, also, this was in the commission of a rape or rape and aggravated robbery as well. So guilty of everything here.

As he's found guilty, he starts having another meltdown. As they drag him out of court, he screams, they got what they wanted. They can all die in hell, too, because that's where I'm going. An innocent man's going to hell? Is that what he's saying? He don't give a fuck. I had sex with dead bodies from Pennsylvania to Kansas, baby. I'm not going right to hell.

So he screams that. This guy's like a cartoon character of a killer. Like, they can all die in hell because that's where I'm going. If someone wrote that in a script, you'd go, that's a little much, I think, right? It's over. No one's going to say that. Nobody will believe that. They can have an appeal coming up. That doesn't look good for him probably so sentencing comes

around and uh he is a sentence to you sir may fuck off i would say life in prison for first degree murder uh 15 years to life for rape and 15 years to life for aggravated robbery. Never get all those all those sentences to run consecutively. Oh, boy. Yes. But we'll talk about that because there's something that needs to be said about him. Quote, never getting out. Yeah. Yeah.

Now the appeal comes up. He has some issues. One, he contests the voluntariness of his confessions. And they said basically the cop giving an emotional appeal to him isn't coercion. It's salesmanship, for lack of a better term. You look great in this car. It's you. You should buy it.

It's you, baby. Yeah, that shirt looks terrific on you. It's not a threat or a promise. It's an attempt to calm an upset person. And that doesn't make the confession involuntary. It would make, if you had to just say, there would never be a murder confession.

If you had to go in a room and say, if you murdered this person, write it down on a sheet of paper and tell me about it. Otherwise, I'll be out there. There would never once be a murder confession. Never, never. Like there's always some coercion of convincing.

You have to convince someone to be in jail for the rest of their life right in the homicide book they always talk about when you're interrogating somebody like it's what you're selling is not a good product for them no it's a bad one you're selling life in prison right that's not a great product so to get someone to actually buy that product you really gotta have some fucking golden tongue to be able to do that, man. Because that's a, you got to be a sweet talking son of a bitch to get someone to admit that. You're selling Pintos with exploding gas tanks.

You've really got to make this thing worth it. It's tough, man. So he, yeah, they said that that's fine. He also claims he was incompetent to stand trial, which they said, no, we did several things. You're not. He argues also that he was entitled to an instruction that rape cannot occur after the victim is dead. That's what he's that's when you're appealing with. I mean, well, I fucked her after she was dead.

So technically, that's not right. Oh, that you're in a bad position. That's not a good position to be in that's literally his one of the the points of his appeal he doesn't realize that you can't as soon as he says that it's over yeah you can't rape a dead body i mean oh you can see him like like smugly like see i mean i know what i'm talking about obviously can't rape a dead body um now the defense argues that the trial court erred in failing to instruct the jury that rape must be committed while the victim is alive. They said his statements regarding the crime are contradictory.

In his own testimony, he said he had sex with her while she was alive. But that's the only time he ever said that. Every other time he said it was after she was dead, unless it was an open court. And the defense never requested that the jury be instructed that rape can only be committed against a living person. So basically, fucking gall. It's like a child molester going into court and saying old enough to breed, old enough to bleed or bleed. I mean, technically, yeah. Jesus Christ. I got you, yeah. Jesus Christ.

That was backward. I got you, though. That's on the field play ball. Shit like that. You still grossed out the whole audience. That's fine. It's okay. Everybody just went, I don't know if I want this sandwich anymore.

No worries. But it's the same thing. You can't just say wild shit like that. Yeah. Now, they do say jurisdictions have had problems with this. Two jurisdictions have clearly decided that rape requires a living victim, they said. What? Two different jurisdictions.

The state asserts that one jurisdiction holds that rape may be committed against a dead body, and the other one says it doesn't. The defense says that the state misconstrues one of them. In one of the cases, Hines, the deceased victim was found lying on her back with her legs spread apart. Speaking of the charge of attempted rape, the court said the evidence of the evidence. It's not necessary that the circumstances exclude the possibility that the victim was dead before any sexual touching or attempted rape. They said that an attempted rape occurs when the perpetrator forms an intent to rape and takes any action to carry out that intention so if you intended to rape and then you killed a woman to rape her it's still fucking rape even though you killed her after she's dead yeah so

if it's the only way that it's not rape is if she says yes yeah that's and then even once she's dead i think that's like she got that's like she got real drunk and passed out. It's over. That consent is now over with. Incapable of offering it. Yeah, it's you're not capable of offering it anymore. Now it's right. Yeah.

So another case, they said the court considered whether attempted aggravated criminal sodomy could be committed against a dead body. It's people's jobs to parse this shit, including mine, which is really fucking pretty weird. I got to say, he said, as a starting premise, the court said that William, which is the one case correctly, argues that criminal sodomy or aggravated criminal sodomy may not be committed on a dead body because of the close analogy between aggravated criminal sodomy and rape. The same rules apply rape can only be committed against a living person because rape requires a live victim the question then becomes whether the instruction was clearly erroneous when there was a real possibility the jury might have found perkins not guilty of rape there was no testimony about the physical evidence the redness around the vagina that would indicate whether she was dead or alive

perkins confessions all indicated that she was dead. He specifically told the officers they learned to have dead bodies while working with undertakers in Pennsylvania, for fuck's sake. The only time he said that she was alive was when he took the stand and said that he had sex with her when she was alive. So they're saying he did say that Kansas law says rape is sexual intercourse with a person. Person implies a living person. That's what they're saying there so they're saying that you can't rape a dead body once you're dead you cease to be a person once you're dead it's open season you're you're all the laws against

people don't apply anymore what is happening kansas i'm so glad i'm not in kansas what this is uh statute 21-3502 uh one is in parentheses there that's that here um wow uh this is wild i mean i don't know what i i i'm just that i'm falling away with is there no desecration of human remains in Kansas then? What the fuck are they saying? That's not considered desecration, I guess. I would say it is. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty gross, I would say. But yeah, they said had the request for an instruction been asked for, then the trial

court should have instructed the jury that rape can't take place after the victim's dead and it's up to you to decide when he fucked her, basically. This is gross. James, in Kansas, if you stumble on a dead body and it's up to you to decide when he fucked her, basically. This is gross. James, in Kansas, if you stumble on a dead body and you did not kill it, you can fuck it. Yeah, that's it. Oh, you can fuck it. It's legal.

What? It's legal. Both, in terms of the words of the law, both consent and overcome by force presupposes that the victim is alive because it's implicit in the instruction given by the victim. Given that the victim be alive, the instruction was not erroneous. So they said, you're fine there.

He argues a mistrial should have been granted because of his conduct, which they said, no bullshit. He also says that he should have been present during that in chambers hearing. And they said, no, actually, the only time it says that the defendant has a right to be present at all times when the jury is present in the courtroom and whenever the trial court communicates with the jury. So the things that happen legally and shit, they don't have to be there for that. That's not a mandate. It doesn't mandate that the defendant be present when the discussions concerns holding a competency hearing. when the discussions concerns holding a competency hearing. Then he argues that the evidence was insufficient for the jury to find him anything other than insane of the crimes.

So they're like, yeah, you're good. You're in fucking now. There's some weak arguments. Some weak ass arguments. So he goes to prison, obviously. He's in prison. I found since 1996, I found his disciplinary record here. Um, 96, he, uh, violation of public orders, 2002 disobeying orders, uh, 2003 insubordination, disrespecting an officer, July, 2003, same day, disobeying officers.

Then, uh, two more times in 2006 and seven, he was in subordination, disrespect of an officer. Use of personal property in 2008, more disrespecting an officer in 2011. Then there's two incidents in 2012 and 2015 of taking without permission. He probably worked in the kitchen or something and swiped some stuff out. And then finally, 2016, 2016 restricted area unauthorized presence so he's never getting in fights or doing anything really bad he's just being kind of a nuisance around there now currently he is uh he is at the uh the lansing cf central he is incarcerated that's uh i don't know i don't think so um it should be in kansas probably got

to be a lansing who the hell knows so his earliest possible release date was may 4th 2020 so he is he is up for paroles now this guy so at any time oh my god this guy could be let out on the street like five days fuck your grandma oh made for 2020 so last oh my god last year he's still in now but who knows he's go he could be up again this year or in a couple more years so um yeah i don't know keep all your quarters close to you and don't pick up any goddamn hitchhikers because this is the this might be the guy who knows so uh yeah oh my god that's kind of fucking crazy a man who has zero problem uh strangling a cat first of all uh yeah and and fucking corpses and fucking corpses yeah he's he's a dangerous man there's no way they let him out right i mean it depends on what he's been doing in pro if this guy has built up enough shit in prison if he went and got his g on what he's been doing in prison. If this guy has built up enough shit in prison, if he went and got his GED and he's been doing programs and did drug rehab or whatever the fuck.

We've got his record in prison, too. He's an asshole. He's an asshole. But those are actually for prison. That's a pretty light record. Is it? Because those are all minor infractions. And those are like that since 96.

I mean, that's in 25 years. Basically, those are all as infractions. So it's not none of them are that big of a deal. The only ones that are class one are disobeying orders. Everything else is a class two. So it's like he hasn't had anything really. He's essentially been fired from jobs as much as I have. Those are the same things that I got fired from.

Same shit. Yeah, we all have. And I've got every I've got I've gotten fired from every every job as many jobs as he's been in trouble in prison so he'd probably just have my employment record that's all it would be if he was out so i mean who knows he could be a guy if he goes in there shows remorse yeah says you know i don't know what i was thinking there yeah blah blah blah he could get out i mean it's he's been in there for 30 something years i mean it could happen it could fucking happen that's it's possible so um yeah that's oakley kansas everybody and um damn it this other story if i could do it in like five minutes but

it'd be so hard to rush through this shit in five minutes i don't know if i want to do that you know what let's do it yeah i'm gonna rush it yeah let's do it. Yeah. Want to rush it? Yeah. Let's do it. We'll do a quick, quick story. Just jam in and out. Just because it's a crazy story. This is also in Kansas. They want it, James. Somebody's dangling their ass at us. Somebody is swaying their ass for us here. Let's be the drifter and take this story down.

So, May 21st, 1990. It's a guy named Jason Lynn. He's 21 years old. He goes over to his house where his sister lives to eat dinner and watch some TV. At some point, he leaves the house to go to a party. At the party, he drinks a whole

bunch and drops some acid. So, yeah, it sounds awesome. As he's leaving, he gets in a fight with somebody, but then he ends up going back to the party a whole bunch and all this shit. He's being annoying. Yeah. So about 2.30 a.m.

He goes back to his sister's house. His sister was at work and he told his he told his friend or sister's friend that lived there that he left his radio at the party. Remember, it's 1990. And he said he's going back to get it. back to get it after he left the house the sister's roommate said she heard loud screaming and the sounds of quote someone getting hit with a big club or something okay yeah now cut to uh oliver and vicey teal okay they're an elderly couple who lived right near the house where he just left uh mr teal is 89 years old put it that way and a bad motherfucker like when this guy was 30 he must have been a badass like fucking marlboro man they slept in

separate rooms the teals they went to bed between 11 and 11 30 gentlemen he's a gentleman yeah he's gonna let his wife you know heal up her hip from last time. During the early morning hours. Holler at me when you want some more. I'll be in the other room. This is pre-Viagra, too. So people just slept in separate rooms after a while. So during the early morning hours, Mrs. Teal entered Mr. Teal's room and woke him up. Now, Jason Lynn was standing there with her.

So Mrs. Teal tells her husband that Lynn wanted money. Can you wake up? This guy broke in and he wants money. So Mr. Teal said, uh, that, that he said that he wanted him and started hitting him in the head with something like a piece of metal. The kid Lynn starts hitting this old man in the head with a piece of metal 89 year old man okay so during the altercation somehow mr teal the 89 year old man is being hit with a piece of metal in the head physically forces a 21 year old man out the door and locks it while he's being hit in the head with a pipe he just pushed him outside that'll fix it that'll

do it click click get the fuck out of here. So that is awesome. Okay, first of all, this guy's got a lot of balls. So after being locked out of the home, this kid just kicks in the front door. Oh, boy. He just kicks it in,

which you can do. If you're a strong person, you can kick in a front door that's not... Yeah, it can move, especially if there's not five deadbolts in it and a reinforced frame or some shit.

You can kick it right open. So he came back into the house and again started hitting Mr. Teal over the head. Starts whacking him in the head. He attempted to hit him back with a pipe wrench. Mr. Teal does. He grabbed a pipe wrench and swung it at him, but he missed and dropped

it because he's 90 years old. So at that point, Mr. Teal tells his wife, go out and get a shovel from the garage. We're going to fucking fight this asshole off. So Mrs. Teal goes and gets a shovel from the garage. OK, this is amazing shit. Once Mr. Teal gets the shovel, the wife gives him the shovel while he's fighting this kid off.

He manages to hit Lynn over the head with a shovel enough times to force him back out of the house again like you get out of here shoo and hits him with a goddamn shovel so jesus christ he said mr teal says at that point he dropped the shovel and went back into the house like all right that ought to do it gotta get two times jesus jesus christ these people so at that point he says that he couldn't remember what happened and after that at all but later that morning the his children arrived at the house and mrs teal was on the front porch covered with blood and a shovel with blood on it was found next to the sidewalk so mr teal was found inside the house sitting on the floor leaning against a chair holding his wallet tight in his

hands which contained eight hundred dollars more than eight hundred dollars in cash he wasn't fucking he wasn't fucking giving it up he was like you have to kill me and the guy couldn't kill him he had blood on him and spots of blood were found in the bathroom as well. Mr. Teal was drifting in and out of consciousness but was breathing on his own. They called the police. Mrs. Teal died as a result of a fractured skull and brain damage. But Mr. Teal fucking survived that. Wow.

He survived that. Somehow, the guy must have, after he dropped the shovel and went in, the guy got the shovel and attacked him more and killed his wife and must have attacked him too. But he never gave up his fucking wallet. And he just, they found him with his wallet. An 89 year old man that fought this kid off twice, three times. Like imagine what that dude was like when he was 30. You mean when he beat Hitler single handedly? Yeah, that's, it was 19, when he fucking, Christ, he probably beat hitler uh single-handedly yeah that's it was 1990 when he

fucking christ he probably beat the kaiser that guy was fucking old he was that man walked up the beaches of normandy and uh had an umbrella come on you pussies take your best fucking shot don't spill my mai tai right he had like a like an inflatable tube around his waist like a duck tube he just floated on like a unicorn head on the front of it ah fucking france is gorgeous this time of year isn't it so that everybody is oakley kansas and then just a little bonus story that i had to tell about that that mr teal just the spirit to fight in an old man. I fucking love that.

It's sad that his wife died, obviously, but holy shit, that's amazing spirit. So there you go. I hope that kid got arrested, James. Yes, he went to prison. Yeah, Lynn went to prison. That's how I found the court documents of his appeal. So there we go.

That is that. If you enjoyed that show, you got to tell us and tell the world about it get on apple podcast give us five stars that purple icon doesn't matter what you say we don't care what you say tell us whether you're more of a hitchhiker or more of a drifter because those are two different things so find out tell us what you think about that uh get on there be overwhelmingly hitchhiker in this audience god i would hope so leave the corpses alone drifters fuck dead people so that's worse that is crazy that is bad stuff so do that follow us on social media we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on

facebook at small town murder on instagram and then head over to shut up and give me murder.com now right now right now get your tickets to the virtual live show which is crime and sports but that's not that's not sports don't worry don't hurry up you're gonna be late because it's tonight you're gonna be late yes no it's a week from six it's a week from tonight I'm like is it I don't I'm not prepared shit I don't have that done yet it's a week from tonight may the 6th and it's available for 72 hours after that just like the other shows it's going to be a lot of fun we're going to do it up it's going to be suge night for christ's sake about four minutes of sports and the rest of it is going to be nothing but crime and shit that you probably didn't know also there's so much shit where i and i followed that shit and i was like i didn't know. Also, there's so much shit where I and I followed that shit. And I was like, I didn't know that.

It's crazy. Bad, bad, bad stuff. And we'll get into all of that. So that is at shut up and give me murder dot com. May the 6th. Get your tickets now. Head over to Patreon. You want to get those episodes. Patreon dot com slash crime and sports.

We're telling you they're good. Our Patreon episode. There's so much fun and you're going to have a lot of fun hanging out. It's really good stuff. And you get two episodes every two weeks. So you get four episodes a month at least and maybe more sometimes. But this week's bonus episodes are first. We're going to talk about the college admissions scandal for, you know, mainly ensnared Lori

Laughlin and Felicity huffman and all those people and there's some crazy shit behind the scenes there about how they did that that is just just disturbingly fucked up and so uh we'll get into all of that and then for the small town murder bonus we're going to talk about how to essentially they call it cult deprogramming to deprogram someone from a cult situation pressure wash the noggin and there's even some controversy behind it too so there's a lot of different things to talk about and i'm just very curious about how the hell you do that psychologically and everything like that and we'll we'll talk about some we'll cite some cult

examples and it'll be a fun fucking time trust me do that everything there and more patreon.com slash crime and sports and everybody over the five dollar level not only gets all the bonus material but you're also a producer well you're a producer no matter what you don't but and if you're a producer you are going to not only get our undying love and affection obviously but you'll also get a shout out because Jimmy's going to say your name and say how much we love you at the end of the show. He'll mispronounce it, but he means so, so well when he does mispronounce it.

That said, I think I want to hear these. We've heard about, you know, dead fucking grandma rape and all this type of crazy shit. And when we have to discuss, when we have to parse, is it rape if they're dead? You know what I mean?

At the end of that day, you need to hear a list. We need to hear Mr. Teal-level heroes. Yes, we need Mr. Teal-level heroes, and we need to hear about these type of heroes, real-life heroes, our favorite people in the world. It's like a warm hug. Hit me with those names right now, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are sammy weir he turned 75 james he was part of the 82nd airborne division and his son josh uh reminded us of that thank you so much sammy and he listens to us he listens to us and i think he thank you i

think sammy got josh to listen to us i think that's how that worked it's pretty amazing awesome sammy thank you so much and happy birthday man uh absolutely. Absolutely. And he lives in Scottsdale, too. I'm going to try to find that guy and take him out for a drink as soon as a 75-year-old isn't threatened by disease. As soon as that drink wouldn't fucking murder him. Let's not kill the guy. His fucking airplane jumps didn't kill him. Let's not kill him with a drink.

Other executive producers are Joanne Ahern,ordan bennett of course julia hipper thank you so much julia that was unbelievably kind thank you yes uh chrisianne costaldi again you're amazing rachel flarity uh donated for dave 40 for dice uh he passed away april 2nd but we met him at a live show and i'm i miss him already oh remember. Yeah, we talked about that. It's unbelievable. It's awful. We also Brennan, Brennan, Brennan Keene, Zanward, Humble Bumble, Humble Bumble. That can't be real. Robert, right? That's not real.

Robert Durham, Alex Petrovito, Patrovito, Morgan Willenbring. Sorry. Trifogia Eads. Allison Fumsorn. Jennifer Sutton. Gabriela Angelica Lopez. Jacob Ford. Jess Pod. And just Ashes.

No last name at all. We didn't even make that up because Ashes is not even a name. That's a word, right? I think it is. You can call your Ashes if there's two Ashleys. Thank you so much, all of you. We really appreciate you. Other producers this week are Angela Pace, Thomas Smith, James Marder, Corporal

Carl Kirshner, Samantha, nope, that's Susanna, Susanna Platt, Sonny Johansson, Gary Friedman, Rabbi Shmulalovich, Flounder Dorfman, because his brother Fred is a legacy. I don't know if you know that. I think that's an Animal House reference. Peyton Meadows, Mike Kuehling,

Cherry Tunt, Steve Schnell, of course. What was that? Say again. What was that one? Steve Schnell. No, no, before that. Cherry Tunt. Sherry with an S.

No. Oh, no. I'm sorry, Sherry. C-H-T-R. I'm sorry, Sherry. Sherry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Sherry Tunt?

Is that somebody fucking with me? I mean, I just, I hope so sorry. Sherry Tunt? Is that somebody fucking with me? I mean, I just, I hope so. I mean, I hope not. Maybe Sherry, I'm sorry, Sherry. Let's just say I'm sorry. Sarah Wetmore, Mark Hamill, Matt Villanueva, and his friend Mustard. Also, we have Joanna, oh, Joanna Staten. Oh.

That's an overboard reference. Yeah, it is. It is. Now I see her name when she donates, and I know exactly who it is, and then I go to look. Roy? Yeah. She has found every character in the show. Now she's going to have to name off all the boys.

That's true. Maria Rasper, Jennifer Stevens, Greta Jo, Hannah Walker, Jennifer Rydell, Sandra Workman, the boys uh that's true maria rasper jennifer stevens greta joe hannah walker jennifer ridell sandra workman jen jenna coons and uh she just beat cancer in a fair fight so he's legal shit congrats yeah way to go jenna jenna jenna yeah jenna coons uh also jennifer ingles uh ashley veo janice hill ashley gothier uh eric rodrig Rodriguez, Ben Sonier, Rachel Fanguy, and her jugginess. I don't know. Somebody said she's extra juggy. I don't know what that means.

Good for you, Rachel. Mickey Speaker. Good for you. Congratulations again. Mickey Speaker. Where did I go? Mike Moreno, Gregory Burr, Michael Lewis, I think, Brianna Poland, Emily Irvin, Mandy Lebecco, Pixie DeLeon, Bob Richmond, Adam Iannetti, Rachel, nope, that's Gretchen Rose, Verity Hall, Daniel Lewin, Kelsey Thomas, Andrew Jadarski, Matt Salchuk, Abby Hegstrom, Gilear DeFries Perez, Gilear, Gilear, Gilear, Dustin Van Dyke, In Our Kiwi Life with Tony and Candy, Jordan Hofer, Nancy Eggstrom,

Tommy Taylor, Lauren Brownlee, Pam, do you know her last name, James, Pam? Do you know? I do not. You don't know it? Oh, do you not have one for her? Do you know her last name or not? Anderson. You are right.

August Miller. Mandy's last name is really interesting. Do you want to guess it? Unterreiner. You are so good at this game. Thomas Badry. Kaiwei Maya. Alexis's last name is going to throw you for a loop, though.

I'm sure of it. Marshfield. Nailing it. Babak. I know my things. Ajgan? Ajan? That's got to be a correction from Apple, right? Jack Cornia, Eric Medley, Chad Fetcher, Melissa Sawyers, Brian Nichols, Angie Moore, Hannah and Chris Gladue, McQuaggins, Robin Solly, Nicole Finfrock, Tracy Barsby, Jamie Hansen, Hannah Albanese, Linda Baca, Wren Jaeger-Dula,

Bianca Garza, Chloe, you know her last name, right? Yes, Sachin Vats, Pasquale Vincenzo, Michael Bowman, Andrew Brown, Ernie Reese, Goblin, and Gremlin that are not dogs, by the way. I don't know what they are.

They just said, by the way, they're not dogs. Jared Langenfield, Laura Still, Come Bucket. You know them, right? Becky Atkins, Andrew Tevington, Jason Rodriguez, Carly. Do you know her? You've met her, right? Oh, Worthington. Yes.

Worthington, right? That's right, right. Shauna Newman, Bradley Woolsey, Morgan Schoen, Benjamin Dahlman, Hannah Kibatis, Robin Reed, GG, Jen, nope, that's Jen Nitchie, Michael Chambliss, Molly Owens, Todd Milikovich, Mike and Jill Calhoun, Mike Morgan, Amanda,

that old friend of yours, Amanda? Madigan. Yes, Amanda, Steven Reed, Jay, that one dude that you used to hang out with a long time ago. The fuck was his last name? Berenstein, like the Bears. Jason Vincent. There's also Lacey, James.

You remember her? Lacey Walker. Yeah, we all know her. Kendra Mudge, Joshua Perkins, Julie Q, Cheryl June, Alexandra Tacoma, Bill, nope, that's Tim Malazzo, James Milliken, Emily Knave, Maggie Bartolovich, Potato Trash, Ronald Stillwagon, your old friend Shelly, that girl that, you remember her, Shelly? Oh, wait, no, what was her name? Yeah, I think I remember her, Shelly.

Martin. Yes, Tammy Emig, Antoinette Lynch, Justin Allaway, Sarah, that girl that you married? Edwards. Edwards. Yeah, we know her. Mia Mullins, Makeup With Kate, Carly Stotts, Captain Chromosome, Mary Samantha Richardson, Trenton Haglin, Tyler from my old neighbor, Tyler. Do you remember?

Oh, yeah, McGee. Yeah, we know him. Jake Jessup, Derek Dickinson, Christy Rowland, Dwayne, the point guard from The Heat. Smith. How did you forget that? Jacob Thompson, Jack Mne, the point guard from the heat. Smith. How did you forget that? Jacob Thompson, Jack Mehoff. Of course it is.

Sash Massacote, Tabitha Stevens. I hope it's the porn star. Uh, Jared Bethel, Monica Burke, Adam, uh,

fucking yes. Justin log. Zan, of course, Zan, you don't remember him. Zan. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Pedro. Also, Pedro from, uh, over, Zan. You don't remember him? Zan? Yeah. Right? Pedro also. Pedro from over at the store. Pedro. I had a Hispanic name all lined up and his name's Pedro, so now I feel bad slapping it on him.

Ruiz. We know him. Mike Wetzel. Lindsay. And also... Wetzel like the pretzel? And Lindsay, and then there's also Lindsay Wogg, Eve Boreham, Kayla Houston, Charles C. Spalding, Warren Jacobs, Nikki Tate, Jewel Diggs, Tatum Seidler, Mary Kate Folsom, Melissa McCormick, Lindsay Huta, Mr. Flannelmouth. There's also Kenny, the guy from...

Aronoff. Yeah. Lillian Kanderblomern. Sarah Wright. Kelsey Kautz. Monica Compton. Shelby King. Nick Long.

Karen Lopez-Easterling. Tim Lawley. Taylor Bethards. Christy Brady. Till. Nope, that's Bill. Lindikey. Sarah Legere.

Legere. Legere. Legere. Leanne Fields. Becky DeWitt, and Daniel James. Do you remember that guy? Dixon. Yes.

Caitlin Earles, Maddie Garrett, Brandon Smith, Julia over there from, do you remember that? Cheetah. Yeah, like Derek. Jen DeLong, Tom White, Cecilia also. Do you remember her? She was the girl with the hair. Oh, Underton. Yes. Cassie Triggs, Brittany Towns, the hair. Oh, oh, oh, Underton.

Yes. Cassie Triggs, Brittany Towns, Sofredo Powell, Christine Buick, Ashley Milan, Kenneth Mathis, Billy Williams, Roxy Rodriguez, Steve, Steph Morgan, Adil Kovacova, what the fuck, Kovacevich, Chris Rojas, Madison Calabrese, Raquel Daldalian, Ashley Deaver, Alexander Matos Castro, Pamela Brown, Megan Doriat, Marcos Magana, Diane also, James, you remember her. Parkinson. Yeah, Ja'Kor Goodwin, Tiana Tank, Ashley Bauer, Joan Knapek, Amy Wopal, Julian Forkin-Begby, Ru Allen Church, John Mendenhall, Teresa with no last name. You know, do you remember Teresa? Esther House.

Yeah, her. It's Esther House. Do you remember that movie? It's Caddyshack. And you are Mrs. Esther House. Oh, God. Okay. yo and you are mrs esterhouse oh god okay michael rousseau uh jesse falk james cohe kehoe uh chris cross brett brookshire james james mole jr uh katrina emmerich carla wisend uh tim gee g leandro ation crank kim orgy, Thomas Hawkins, also James. There's Roy. And we're not giving him a last

name because his name is what? He's Roy. Simone York. There's also Faith is in Keep the... Rosati. That's our girl. Jenna Delorio, Kendall Elfritz, Brett Meyer, Jamie

Zitkovich, Roach, Carol Thesons, Ciara McLam, Heather Stovall, Ben Beauchert, Marcus Richards, Paul George. Nope, that's Robert George. Paul West, Maine. Nope, that's Wayne. Merson, Sarah Kelly, Vanessa Anderson, Holly Henderson, Cassie Shores, Matthew Olmsted, Lindsay Bates, Katie Goh, Dream. What is Dream? Homestead, Lindsay Bates, Katie Go, Dream, what is Dream, Villion J, Laura Behan, Samantha Nelson, Robert Ryan, John Lawson, Siren Head, Christopher Wrights, Belinda Gray, Heather Carroll, Danielle Sherb, Allie Henley, Palmer Owens, Tracy Villancourt, Erin Marie, Murray, Meredith Graves, Eduardo Santana, Andrea Qu quarangi i think uh sylvia concha brian gilbert there's also justin of course there's justin also rosario yep shelby rose

marcy bush colleen lambert jerry lee remember that guy or girl jerry lee that is his last name it's lee all right it might be a gal that's it's j-eR-R-I. That may be a gal. Oh, shit. Jameson. Oh, that guy. Jameson. You remember him? Great deal. Oh.

You got to remember Jameson. Oh, Jameson Jackson. Kicked you in the thing? Yeah. Jackson. Right. Jameson Jackson. Quinn Riley, Monica Kaluzny, Kennedy, Borosi, Kayla Thing.

What? Kayla Ann. Heather Adley. Brandy Mendoza, Carrie Wilhelm, Wilhelm and Chase Scott and all of our patrons. You guys really make things worth it. And and I have just had more fun than ever. That was great. Thank you so much, everybody. From the bottom of our hearts hearts we cannot thank you enough

for all that you do for us and uh we'll keep trying to do our best for you and keep trying to throw down on those patreon episodes and we want those to be the best thing we want those to be like oh fuck i put that on i just i just laughed the entire time it's just crazy so that's what we're going for for you you we want you thankful for us yes we want you to love those episodes we don't want you to i'll give them five bucks because i like them and it's we don't want that we want you to go i'm getting well more than five dollars worth of funny shit here so that's what we try to do donation to fine i'll take those two we'll take them don't get me wrong but there's something in this for you is what we're trying to get out here so what about if there's something what if you want something in

it for you jimmy how would these people get a hold of you i don't want anything in it for me but thank you guys truly for the support that you guys offer uh whether it be emotional financial uh listening every week we really appreciate it thank you so much where can they tell you james that oh boy they're so grateful oh you can tell me anything over at jimmy p is funny you can find me or just look us up you know to look us up just google the show and it'll have us on there around copy and paste our names and they go hey there's your social media you can find us and copy us and see us and keep coming back every goddamn week because we're going to keep coming back we have some really wild cases lined up for you.

It's a, I'm telling you, we have, you want to listen, keep listening to the next few weeks and you're going to hear more and more and more crazy, crazy shit. We can't wait.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wond. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.