Small Town Murder - #258 - Mayberry: Chopped & Posed - Mount Airy, North Carolina

Episode Date: January 13, 2022

This week, in Mount Airy, North Carolina, the town that "Mayberry" of The Andy Griffith Show is based on isn't so idyllic, considering a body is found, posed, and with the hands chopped off. The investigation couldn't have been more incompetent, if it was conducted by the Sheriff of a sitcom, instead of the actual real police that ended up with it. Wild truths come out about the killer, including even more murder, and a prison diary that goes public, and makes the whole system angry. Will he escape the electric chair? Along the way, we find out that some people REALLY love The Andy Griffith Show, that chopping hands off doesn't keep anyone from identifying a body, and that killing more people doesn't make killing the first person okay to do!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Mount Airy, North Carolina, when a body is found, posed, and with the hands cut off, the mystery is finally solved by finding a very bad man who has a lot to say.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week. We are excited as usual. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We have a wild story ahead of you, or ahead for you. Quickly, an announcement right off the bat. February 12th, is it, Jimmy? 10th! Yes, 10th. I am way off. February the 10th, we are doing a virtual live show where our tour is kind of off until March now, which is actually good. We're supposed to be in Nashville this week. Turns out I have COVID, so that would be bad, and I wouldn't be in Nashville. I would be sick at home because I feel awful.

No, I feel pretty lousy, so I am and yeah that wouldn't happen so we're doing a virtual live show February the 10th it's a Thursday night it'll be available for 72 hours after that get your tickets at shutupandgivememurder.com or over at momenthouse.com slash smalltownmurder either way you can get

them either way there dot com yeah we'll be whatever you'll find the damn thing so So, yeah, we're very excited for that. We're going to have a wild show, of course, as you know, as we always do. We're going to have a lot of fun with it. So, get those and get tickets for the rest of the year at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Get all

of your merchandise. Also, listen to Crime and Sports if you haven't listened to it. Oh, man. Man, have we been cooking over there. Check it out. Telling you, you don't have to care about sports at all you have to care about us making fun of morons and that's that's what the show is and it's a good time it's really wild check it out listen trust us on that here patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all your bonus material so much bonus stuff this week we

have a couple that we're very proud to present. We're always proud, but this week they're especially good. And you get access to Crime and Sports and Small Town Murders bonus. First of all, we have for Crime and Sports, it's a year in sports crime. We're going to do 1995, everyone in sports who got arrested. And it's crazy how many people got arrested and for the kinds of crazy shit they got arrested for so check that out and then for small town murders we did john benet ramsey in the investigation and you'll say oh i've heard that so many times you haven't heard it like

this trust us on this trust us when we tell you that we cover things slightly differently we did uh we really focused on that ransom note and broke it down and talked a lot about it. It's crazy. You need to hear it. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you can do that. And anybody $5 or above, you get access to everything under the sun.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show because we appreciate you. Thank you for doing that. Shout out and Jimmy will mispronounce your name. Also, you can review now, like we said. You can do Apple Podcasts, whatever platform you're listening to. Also, now you can review on Spotify and Audible you can do also. Wow.

If you listen to audiobooks, if you have Audible, go in there. Give us a review. It helps us out a ton. So please do that. Just jump on quick and do it. Thank you so much quick disclaimer very quickly uh it's a comedy show it is this is a comedy show we are comedians the facts are completely real we could not make this stuff up we'd be way more talented than we

are if we could make up these stories and every week like this that would be stephen king couldn't write 280 stories in a row like that or 58 stories a week so yeah it's all real and it's all insane uh we will say that well there's things murder there's a there's murder obviously and there is comedy mixed in with the murder which is weird but what we do is we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because why james we're assholes but we're not scumbags that's how it works there so that sounds good to you we have a wild story if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together maybe we're not for you maybe or maybe we are but you

might be might be it does might not be what you think either way don't complain later because you've been warned so there is jokes and they're in there, but not like you think. There's nothing. You get it. So that said, it's not that bad. That said, I think it's time to sit back, Jimmy. Let's clear the lungs and shout. You should.

Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? I would love it. Oh, baby. We are going all the way to north carolina here we are to mount airy north carolina land of the tobacco uh yeah mount airy north carolina if you don't know this is really all they talk about it's all their website is it's

all they're all about mount airy is the the basis for mayberry, the Andy Griffith show. Yeah, Mayberry. Even if you're, because Mayberry is a wave of Andy Griffith shows well before our time. And also as a southern thing, it really wasn't on in New York, so I didn't grow up with it. No, it wasn't on fucking. I watched the shit out of it as a kid. Yeah, in Arizona when my mom moved out there. I remember it was on TBS all the time.

But TBS was like, I don't know if it wasn't part of our cable station is that right i don't know what it was and then yeah because we didn't get like braves games or any of that shit so i don't know what that was but yeah we i never saw an episode of the andy griffith show until i went to arizona for fuck man uh shit i watched it from age four to like i don't know yeah nine i've still like i've seen i used to watch something at night in phoenix when i was like a teenager my mom when i'd spend summers out there and then when it was over the andy griffith show would start and i'd change the channel so i know the theme song but i've never actually seen an episode it's it would come on at uh 2 p.m in the afternoon and i would get out of school like right at two so I would literally run home to watch.

I loved Andy Griffith. Okay. Loved it. Well, then. Look at Jimmy. I think it was the desire and want for a fucking father. Was that it? You were like, wow, look at him.

He just shows up. Look at him taking a fishing every fucking day. Every episode, man. It's something you can count on. Andy's coming home at the end of the day. Maybe that's what it was. Yeah. You were drawn to the father figure of Andy Griffith.

I thought it was funny. There you go. So this is in north central North Carolina. It's right by the Virginia border. It's kind of right on the border there. It's about an hour 40 down to Charlotte, about an hour 50 to Roanoke, Virginia, if you go the other way, and about three hours to Clinton, North Carolina, which was our last North Carolina episode way back, episode 204.

So it's been over a year, and that was a crazy episode with a nice couple. There was a church involved. There was a lot of wild shit in that. Was Andy Griffith filmed here? No. Andy Griffith, he's from here. So he based Mayberry on Mount Airy. So everything in this town, that's all they have.

It's their whole identity is Mayberry. So this is in Surrey County. It's area code 336. They don't have a motto, but they have nicknames. One nickname is Granite City, which I've heard that for like four other towns. And then the other nickname is Mayberry. Mayberry, USA.

There you go. Motto would be all the black and white without so much black and white if you know what I'm talking about. Mostly white. History of this town. It's settled in the 1750s, this town was, as a stagecoach stop in the road between Winston-Salem and Gallix, Virginia. Ever heard of that?

What is that? How do you even spell that? I don't know. G-A-L-L-A-X, which seems like a sci-fi movie. Yeah. Gallix, 2012. It's like a weird sci-fi movie from the 70s is what it sounds like gaylax gaylax virginia probably um it was named this was mount airy for a by after a nearby

plantation so that's that was the name it was incorporated back in 1885 so um they began pretty much immediately the granite quarry began large-scale production right away. And the first furniture factory began here in 1895. I think last week we had a town that was built on typewriters. This one's built on furniture and tobacco. And granite, home improvement. Home improvement. So you can smoke, fall asleep, burn your furniture down, and they have new furniture for you.

It's a cycle that they're just putting up cycles. Yeah. Tobacco factories everywhere. Andy Griffith, born here, like we said, and they held the annual Mayberry Days, which you know we'll talk about. In 2009, 50,000 people showed up for Mayberry Days. What? 50,000. in 2009 50 000 people showed up for mayberry days what 50 000 it was the show's 50th anniversary

and uh 50 000 people showed up for that shit that is and they were all old as shit or me oh yeah i was gonna say because i'd be like this is weird wait they're so into it in this town here the but they estimate that brings in about five million dollars a year as a result into the town so it's the whole they need it surviving cast members come otherwise it'll be like so-and-so's kid is there like waving hey look it's floyd the barber's kid hi he's just a ne'er-do-well he's got like you know meth sniffles and he just got out of just got out of the old pokey opie's never showing up but no no way too much money he's very busy opie he sends clint he sends clint in his place clint howard shows up hi everybody they're like

oh god he's hideous but so talented so in uh 2012 karen knots don knots his daughter was there in place of don they just sent I hope she's real goofy looking. It makes the faces too and shit. I think Don was dead by then anyway. Yeah, yeah. That's why they sent the daughter. Yeah, Don Knotts was long dead. But Don would love to show up because he needs it.

In that town, they have several old school Ford Galaxy police cars painted up like Mayberry. You can take a ride in. Is that why they drove Ford Galaxies? Because of Galax being nearby? No, that's just what police cars were a lot back then. It's just a coincidence. It's a stagecoach ride stop between those two. Wow, you're really digging deep in there.

I'm trying so hard to find references to the place because of Andy, but nothing. They even have a Floyd's Barbershop there, obviously. Do they? Of course. Reviews of this town. There's a few of them here. Five stars. This one, they love this town.

Mount Airy is a small town and everyone knows everyone. Sometimes things like drama can start quick and you might lose a couple of friends. Jesus. Nothing is better than better than then by the way not van the friday night lights at wallace shelton stadium and the sound from the scoreboard will radiate radiate throughout the whole town chili's after each football game is a must oh too many people go to cook out after apparently so you got to go to Chili's afterwards. That's where everybody lives here. Now, here's two stars.

Not happy at all with Mayberry. Very upset. This is the drunk in there every morning. Let's himself in. Yeah. Two stars. Crooked cops is the first sentence. Fucking Andy.

God damn it. You keep track of Mr. Farley. Keep track of Mr. Farley. God damn you. What keep track of Mr. Farley. Keep track of Mr. Farley. God damn you. What's wrong with covered up, covered up,

covered up overdoses on a regular basis. Thievery on a regular basis. No locals eat on main street. Food is no good and too expensive. Nothing to entertain younger people. Good retirement place. Or it would be if they would wipe out the cops and such and such on drug dealers payrolls apparently these are just

how big can the police force be to be some of the cops are on payrolls this isn't serpico what the fuck is happening well covering up ods james that that doesn't seem like a priority to cover up yeah it seems like you know yeah they're overdosing like crazy get us more of that Covering up ODs, James? That doesn't seem like a priority to cover up. Yeah, it seems like you are. Yeah, they're overdosing like crazy. Get us more of that shit you stick in them. What would be the interest of that? Who would give a shit?

Last line, welcome to Mount Airy where Andy Griffith hated it. Wow. That is wild. The crime rate is high here. Where do we get to it? People in this town, 10,175. So small town. Big small town town but still pretty goddamn small way more females than males 55 it's 56 female which is yeah way out of whack but it makes sense when you look at the uh the age breakdown the median age is

older than normal but there are three times as many people that are 85 and older than normal. Yeah. They're just embracing the anti-life. Twice as many people, 75 to 84. So women outlive men generally. So you're going to get more women than men. That's how that works here. Less married people than usual, only because they've died.

The widow rate is more than twice what it normally is. So that's why they're not currently married here. Single with no children, 12.1%. Good news if you want to party. Bad news is they're all like 86 years old. So it's like mingling at the VFW with some of that crowd. Race of this town, 80% white, 8.2% 0.3 asian and 10 hispanic so not a lot of uh i mean there's a more some diversity yeah some about 54 of the people here are religious which

is actually less than i've would have imagined for this area but then you factor in the elderly people i'm telling you when people hit 75 they either really embrace that shit or they're like get the fuck away from me with that they're it's one of the two they really go one or the other 31 baptist as we know the baptists are the catholics of the south obviously not a lot 0.6 catholic not going to find much of that around here uh 0.1 lutheran. There's a couple of Methodists and a Pentecostal here or there. 0.0% Jewish. And that kind of goes without saying here. Didn't see a lot of Jewish people wandering around the Andy Griffith show. I don't think I ever heard

the word schmeckle on any episode. No, I don't think they were going down to the fishing hole and Ron Howard stopped and went, hi, Saul. I'll see you down at the, that never happened. See you down there when we go getting that gefilte fish out of the creek. Never happened on that show. In this county, it's a pretty rural county too, the, it is 20, last election, 24% voted Democratic, 75% Republican, 1% Independent. Unemployment rate here is low. It's a little lower than the national average,

but the household income also is hurting. It's 37,194 is the median household income, which is 20,000 less than the national average. Cost of living is pretty low too, though. 100 is average. Yeah, 100 is average here at 76. So it's not that bad. Median home cost here is 127,400 bucks. Man, that's cheap. Less than half the national average, so that's very cheap. So if we've convinced you, God damn it. You need Mayberry in your life. You need to get your pole and head on down to the creek every morning.

We both need to work on our whistling skills. morning well i'm smiling it's a we did we went over this on a previous episode it is impossible to whistle when you're laughing you can't do it also impossible to whistle when i can barely do it i just i need to like calm and get into a thing and i can see just i need to i need to but it's that pucker to have a pause and I can... See, I need to... It's not bad. It's that pucker. To have a pause and be like, okay, now. I can't even do the pucker whistle. I can't do it at all.

Oh, that's not good. Well, you know what? Maybe it would help if you moved to Mount Airy with the Mount Airy, North Carolina Real Estate Report. Okay, your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $686, which is half the national average. Not bad. It's about in line with the housing costs. I found a two-bedroom, one bath. It's a trailer.

I'm not going to lie. It's on over a quarter of an acre, so it's got a little bit of land. The trailer, the best way to describe it is it looks like it was pulled from the bottom of the ocean. It looks like it fell off a boat coming over here, and then they just pulled it off, you know, 10 years

or so, pulled it out, stuck it in a yard, put some plastic lawn chairs, because there's a lot of plastic lawn chairs in the yard. Not sure if they're included in the price of this place, but $35,000 for possibly a salvage trailer with a lot of plastic lawn furniture. $35,000 for that. Good luck. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath.

It's an actual house. It's attached to the ground. That's the positive. Andy and Opie didn't catch it last week. They didn't accidentally pull it from the river with a fly rod. This is listed as a, quote, handyman special. So you know it needs a lot of help, Jimmy. Things are bad in here, man.

There's some stuff that's... It doesn't look structurally bad. There's no holes in the floor or the ceiling, but there is like... You need to change everything to the fucking studs on this house. Oh, no. There's a toilet that is a black toilet.

Problem is, it's only black on the inside of the toilet. The rest of it's a white toilet, so I don't think it's supposed to be that color on the inside, but it's black. That's what it looks... Someone someone was shitting tar i feel like that's the problem someone was shitting pure oil motor oil not good 99 900 bucks for that and you gotta get ready to put some work into it and knew everything then i found five bedroom two. None of these have square footage, by the way. I don't know what the fuck is going on with these places not listing square footage, but it looks big.

It's got to be a strategy, right? It's every listing, though. It's weird. It's just certain areas. It's like around here, we don't talk about how big the house is. You just walk around, look at it, and find out. God damn it. Lazy bastards.

Got to know how big it is before you walk in there. Who cares how many square? Five bedrooms. That's how big it is for you walk in there who cares i may squirt five bedrooms that's how that's how big it is it's a nice property it's back there's some trees by the road wallpaper everywhere oh no connecting all through the house every each floor has its own wallpaper that it's just the entire fucking house is that wallpaper so live with it or pull it all down i don't it's gonna be a lot it all connects 244 900 bucks for that so it's a little little rough have you ever removed wallpaper it's terrible it's a horrible thing to do you would this would take you six months to get we'll just redraw it's fucked yeah yeah just pull it down to the studs yeah uh things

to do in this town. Not shockingly, it is Mayberry days. Yeah. I have to show you a picture. This is from the website. Okay. Here we go. There we go. It's Mount Airy bucket list, and it's got a picture of the old car.

There it is. Visit Wally's service station, get a photo in the Mayberry courthouse and jail, and top it off with a riding tour of the town in a Mayberry squad car. That's your bucket list. You can get in the car and they'll take you around. They'll drive you the fuck around the town. Yeah. I kind of want to go.

I mean, I bet you do. That doesn't surprise. That sounds awesome. And it doesn't. There's no siren. It's just over and over again. It's like the ice cream truck. And just scream, woo.

Woo. Mayberry Days. This is from the website. Mayberry Days, registered trademark, by the way, is a festival for the whole family with activities and events for fans who long for the days when life was simple and the sheriff didn't carry a gun. Didn't have those pesky civil rights to worry about. Things like that. Enjoy a bottle of pop while playing checkers. Relax to music from many local bands playing the same songs that Andy grew up with and performed on the Andy Griffith Show.

Did he do music on that show? He did. Yeah, he was a pretty decent little singer. I have no idea about that. I think the guitar was right behind his chair in the office. Okay. Well, good for him. Yeah.

There's that. Then there's the Mount Airy Bluegrass and Old Time Fiddlers Convention. Oh, yes. That's an odd one. Fuck Mayberry Days. I saw this. I was like, whoa. The sounds of sweet music will carry throughout the Blue Ridge Mountains from local, national,

and international musicians. Oh, man. Look at this. What do you want to bet Billy Bob Thornton's played this? I'm not sure. It doesn't even say what bands. It just says all bands perform at 7. I don't know what goes on there.

Whoever they are, they'll show up. 9.30 a.m. Bluegrass starts and old-time banjos. Imagine 9.30 a.m. Someone's got a banjo going. They'd be like,-uh you need to calm that banjo down it's early uh there's a youth dance at 5 45 hate it i saw pictures everyone there is a hundred years old i don't know where these youths are come these are like the people

are like in their late 60s they come out and they have a youth dance for them wow um and then there's an adult dance after the completion of the band competition. And it's whoever's the last to not break a hip gets a, they get a trophy. I feel like. Dance till you drop. Crime rate in this town. We are interested in obviously here. Property crime almost double.

Is that right? Yeah. They might have a drug problem of some sort here, I feel like. That's what happens when Andy dies, man. Yeah, they need to get their shit together. Almost double. God damn, that's rough. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, Mount Rushmore of crime.

That's high too. It's also high. It's about 15% high, not double, but it's fucking high. James Mayberry sucks sucks mayberry's a shithole man i'm telling you right now he's in trouble they're they're fucked so now let's talk about a murder let's say let's talk about a murder in mayberry i would love that all right here we go um we'll go back in time a bit here. We need to go back to 1978. God, I love late 70s crimes.

I don't know what it is. I mean, it's... The Andy Griffith Show is still thriving at this point. Is it? No, it's off the air by 78, isn't it? It's still thriving in syndication. Oh, it's thriving in... It's crushing. It's probably still on in syndication.

Probably. I don't have cable, but I bet it's... I bet TBS still plays it at some point. But at some point crushing oh yeah this was this was ted turner based tbs on wrestling braves games andy griffith that was where his that was his big three his triad that he wanted that he based money that's how he that's what he based it on he said i, I can grow from there. Those are the three things I need. So to do this, we have to go back to July 25th, 1978. So it's a good time.

Everybody's got some hair. Yeah. Good shit. The bushes just popping. Everybody. Yeah. This is a time of tight pants and big pubes, which is a weird time period. It really is.

That is a very strange. Yeah. Everyone had a big puff down there. Everybody's got them tight again. But at least you don't have just that. It's an extra bulge. Oh, it was. You had like there's your pube bulge and there's your nutsack.

You had to catch those in the zipper. I mean, even if you wear a buffer, it's still getting through. And 78, too. Who needs underwear? 78. You didn't know underwear needed. I mean, John Travolta's like the most famous man in the fucking world right now. Do we really need underwear?

It's a weird time. Who cares? It's very strange. So, very, very strange. murder is going on here though on july 25th 1978 in an a rural area of mount airy this is kind of not not on main street not right outside the barber shop or anything like that there's a discovery of something horrific it is there's some branches and trees and you know kind of leaves and shit like that on top of what looks to be or what turns out to be a body here uh it's in a gully near a dirt road a gully a gully so this is like ron howard and andy griffith are walking by with

their fishing pole on the way to the hole and they're like what's in there pa and he's like i don't know what the what's the kids opie i don't know opie and he like walks over oh jesus it's a harley fishing today is what that is it's a horribly mutilated corpse well he'll still be there when we're done i hear the catfish are biting and then they walk on down not like he's not going to be dead when we get back right doesn't seem urgent any longer oh you alive buddy no yeah we'll go we'll get him on the way back he's he's dead i think he'd been dead a while probably so they're gonna go ahead and find that uh this is like we said close to the Virginia border. Body is covered in branches. Already decomposed pretty good.

It's July in North Carolina. So if you find any body outside and it's been there more than a few hours, it's going to have some decomposition happening. The identification is difficult based on that. And the way the body is placed, it's clearly on't nobody like threw this body out of a moving car this body there is debris on top of the body in terms of leaves and twigs and things it's obviously being the surface is being covered there's no hole they're sealing it yeah we were like well there's a gully i'll put some leaves on it no one will see it uh the body itself is on his back. It's a male, it appears to be, on his back.

Arms are outspread like a crucifixion. Legs together, arms outspread like a cross. That's how the body is placed. So it looks very on purpose. Nobody dies in a gully like that usually, especially with the feet together. The other thing, gunshot wound right in the forehead between the eyes. I mean, it's a yeah, it doesn't look not a hunting accident. This is a, you know, right between the eyes.

And then I would say the strangest thing of all, the hands are cut off like above the wrist. So, yeah, hands gone. No hands. And it's a chopped off. It's not like they weren't gnawed off by animals and taken away or anything like that. It's clean. It's a clean cut. So this is definitely not a suicide, obviously.

There's somebody doing this very much on purpose and maybe not wanting. It's weird because the hands are cut off, which is what people sometimes do to thwart identity. But the head's still there. So there's dental records and the body wasn't in a place where nobody would find it. I could see like, oh, we'll conceal it. And then just in case we'll take the hands or whatever. But this is like, I'll leave it on the side of the road and just take the hands this is uh they're looking at the hands as like this isn't a this isn't a uh against identification right exactly this is a message of this person

maybe a thief or something along that nature that they use their hands a little bit to get a little handsy at some point with something so they don't know what's going on but the hands are cut off uh there is the investigation you know they talked to one guy right off the bat because he was the last guy to be seen with this young man once we find out who this young man is we'll talk about it but uh dennis walden stockton they end up talking to now uh the body belongs to an 18 year old young man that we were yeah the body is uh is a guy named kenneth arnd arnd how the hell do you say that a rndt a a oh i'm sorry arnder a rnd uh a r A-R-N-D-E-R. A-R-N-D-E-R. Arnder. Arnder. Kenneth Wayne Arnder is his name. He's 18 years old, we discover.

He's wearing jeans, very much late 70s. He's wearing jeans and what's described as a shirt that I can never find out exactly what shirt he had. But they keep describing it as a humorous shirt a humorous drug reference shirt so he's got like a ass grass or gas fucking shirt on or something like some kind of 70s you know or have a nice day with the smiley face but the eyes are stoned and he's got like a you know joint hanging out of his mouth or yeah so one of those 70s humorous drug slogan kids. He's a fun kid. He's a fun kid.

Yeah. If I was in 1978, a teenager, he sounds like somebody I'd be hanging out with. So I like the kid right away. So they end up talking, the police do, to a man named Dennis Walden Stockton. Dennis Stockton is his name. He's 38 years old at this point. So, yeah. 20 years years older 20 years older um he's had quite the checkered past let's just say that he spent this is out of a court document quote he spent most of his adult life in prison work camp or jail oh one of the

three that's where it pretty much sits. They're all the same, aren't they? You know, it's really parsing at that point, isn't it? You're getting picky. It's semantics, really, when we're talking prison, work camp, or jail. I mean, sentenced, he's a halfway program. Either way, in custody of some kind. Over half of his life?

Pretty much his whole adult life. He's in and out. He's in and out he's in and out when he's out he's out for a few months and he's back in he's uh he's never like oh you know he's doing well now dennis is doing great last time i saw him he was assistant manager down at the whatever the shit down at the uh mayberry fucking diner there and none of that happens he's just a disaster this guy i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach stewart pontier i'm one of the filmmakers behind the jinx and i'm excited to bring you

the official jinx podcast we'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook,

where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

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led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. His first stint in jail came when he was 16 and he was locked up for passing bad checks. At 16? At 16. He thought he, oh, I guess, yeah, that was a time

you could just write a check, though. Oh, in the 70s. But at 16, you'd have to... Okay, when I was 16, I assumed everyone was suspicious of everything I did. I wouldn't think... When he was 16,

it was 1966, so he doesn't fucking care. 1956, Jimmy. Oh, my God, you're right. 1956. He's like, hold on, I gotta write this check quick because I to get home and see Elvis on TV.

That's what he said. Like, I can't believe he's born in 1940. Yeah. Yeah. He's born in 1940. So this is 1956. He's sent to prison here. He his parents originally in his first stint in jail, not his prison lockup, but his first stint in jail.

His parents let him stay in jail over a weekend to teach him a lesson this is like we talked about the smoking in the closet and uh he was like this is great wow they give you another one of those well he um they teach him a lesson the problem is even if he loved it i doubt he loved this he was sexually assaulted by a guard at that point oh jesus as a teenager so that kind of um yeah so you can imagine that's uh he's already on a bad path and that's not going to help any whole movie sleepers was built on that jesus christ pretty much that yeah he when he's 17 is when he gets sentenced for the bad checks and he's sentenced to three to five years in prison

for two counts of passing bad checks in his parents name that's the that seems that seems steep for passing checks in your parents name as a 16 year old fuck yeah that's yeah that seems like um as long as somebody pays back whoever the fuck he wrote the checks to for the merchandise yeah you know what i mean like you put them on probation let's move along yeah the parents otherwise that's an internal problem and you take your kid home it's 1956 you take him home and you beat him with a belt that's how people would have dealt with that in the in the 50s you know and the kid go man yeah dad the old man put one on me today i deserved it though man yeah i got busted passing bad checks but this is i wrote a check for 19

dollars and they gave me five years it was 19 worth of hair grease and they gave me that's all it was it's hard to keep keep our hairs up like that now i didn't even have dapper damn all that damn pompadour it's too much drive a young man to steal that's what happens those damn pressures of the modern hairstyles are driving a young man to steal that grease they put in it was so gross oh it's just this shit it was like the stuff you if you're in a garage and you get grease on you know the shit that you wash your hands with that you scoop out that's what it looked like they if you could confuse the two it's the same thing they just put it in your hair that's gross imagine putting that in every day no that can't be good for your follicles right of course not

and how did how did you not like have a like a bad scalp forever because of that well maybe it was like moisturizing though it was grease so maybe it was it would like stop your your skin from producing anything moisturizing though if we got abundance up there it's been slathered in grease for years for the rest of our life no shit yeah maybe that's that's possible so anyway either way he's in prison with his greasy head and uh when he comes home and his parents said when he was 17 he went to jail as a kid you know as a teenager when he comes home from adult prison after three years at 20 he's the same he yeah just a sweet kid yeah real nice kid just wants to seems real humble and like he learned a lesson i'm sure that's what it is he said he was a hardened adult at that point that's all he

he got a lot of good crime lessons and uh you know tattoos actually yes he did that's the other thing they make a big deal by the way out of him having a tattoo because in the 60s unless you unless you just got out of the navy yeah or prison or the hell's angels that's that's those are the people who had tattoos no one else had tattoos that was it you're either a criminal or in the navy which was the only acceptable way to have tattoos if they were naval tattoos today you got 200 extra out of your tax return and you're like what do i spend it on yeah a terrible tattoo something i'm gonna regret in a minute something i'm gonna regret in a minute uh except if you get tattoos of our show which is never a bad idea we enjoy that a lot that's yes i have

shit loads of tattoos yeah well obviously you do yeah that's what i'm saying so either way he's a he's 20 he's got a tattoo he's a he's completely a different guy now i mean his parents are freaked out by it um now he spent his early years before all this criminal behavior in Shelby, North Carolina, which is a different place here. He said his parents had a small rented house near there was cotton mills there. He did it very well in school back then. From all accounts, he's got a very high IQ. Everybody says he's Dennis Stockton has a high IQ. They say somewhere between 130 and 160 is what it was, what his side says.

But then it could be lower. But everybody says he's very, very smart either way. Very, very smart guy. Intelligent. You'd think a guy with that high of an IQ wouldn't try to pass his parents checks. We think he would come up with a better scheme there. But I don't know. Most of the kids at 16 back then probably didn't

think of it at all maybe that's what it was maybe he's a little too smart for his own good crazy he had that idea that was a little too smart for your own good there chief he loves baseball big baseball player uh big time baseball loves that he'll claim to be scouted he claims that he was scouted by the yankees while in prison really which i would believe if billy martin was the manager later on because he got ron lafleur out of prison but not that's a crime and sports thing you can hear that on crime and sports uh but not here like this it doesn't make sense i i don't i don't know the 50s okay the yankees were overloaded with talent like i can't imagine them you know

being like there's this you know there's this fuck up down in north carolina he writes bad checks let's go there's this there's this mantle kid down there in oklahoma i hear he's got all this power and speed check him out on the farm he's been doing everything right on your way back stop by north carolina there's a ne'er-do-well fuck-up who writes bad checks in his parents name i hear he's got a cannon out in left field you want to check him out maybe for me as well you'll know him he has a sweet tattoo on his forearm yeah he's the only guy out there with a tat so it wasn't i don't i'm not buying that they were they didn't need to look in prisons for for talent back then the yankees i don't think just because they were winning all the time and their

farm system was overloaded with talented players i'm not sure maybe that's also probably an easy lie to tell uh yes you know just to sell a story i got a 160 iq and the yankee scouted me so i'm smart and athletic look at me put this in your mouth yes well or um i couldn't have uh done terrible things because i'm i'm such an accomplished person. Now put this in your mouth. Right. I'm also innocent, mind you. Yes.

So when he was a child, his father was away in World War II. I mean, his dad was in World War II. He was born in 1940. So when he was a toddler, his dad went away and came back when he was already in 1940 so when he was a toddler his dad went away and you know came back when he was already in first grade or whatever so that's that's pretty crazy he said when he returned his father much like he turned in prison his father completely different guy after world war ii crazy that that would change a man strange right yeah real weird it's one of those things you see back in like the 50s and 60s if you those things you see back in like the 50s and

60s if you watch mad men or anything like about the 50s and all these guys are fucking drinking like monsters all the time and these three martini lunches back in the day and all this shit and it's like they were all just saw horrible terrible all of the guys they all saw horrible terrible things and then just came then just came home and they were like just there you go get a job and buy a chevy and move to this just there you go have some kids have a couple of kids be a normal person now what you there is no trauma if you win jimmy that's the thing once you beat hitler the trauma of seeing your best friend's head canoed next to you by a fucking artillery shell worth it it's all worth it and you forget it all and you feel great and you go and you take your kid fishing and his

body's in the gully now i got everything's great forward yeah that's what's going on here so buy a new refrigerator yeah it's it's that's not talked back then, but those guys had a lot of trauma, too. They really did. All the people in service in World War II, that was hard fighting. They had a lot of shit going on. They just didn't, it just wasn't really brought up. I mean, it was one of those things. And these are the two things that change men the most, prison and war, and both him and his father have been through it they're not going

to be normal people no no it's impossible so he said when he got home you know he was fucking had problems his dad was abusive to him he said now dennis says he would never ever have gotten in trouble at all ever if his parents hadn't moved out of shelby that's the problem when he was 12 years old they left shelby before that good grades nice kid everything's going well dad beats him a little at home but i mean that's the 50s what do you want so that's the late 40s you go you put wrestling on the dumont channel and you shut the fuck up and you do your business so if you're a kid back then so they moved from shelby north carolina to mount airy north carolina when he was 12 that's how he ended up here and he

said that changed his entire life two things prison and mount airy are very similar in his life like seriously and hitler hitler prison mounty. Those three things have really changed him. Trifecta fucking him up. Yep. He moved there when he was 12. He says, and he explains it. He says, quote, in Shelby, you couldn't even buy liquor. There was a dry, I guess it was dry. He said they had a jail, but nobody was ever in it.

The town had 10 or 15,000 people then. So he said this was just a, this was the real mayberry it was just nobody's even in the jail he couldn't even get liquor this was a real you know everybody was perfect and shelby apparently he is from according to him he says though he comes to mount airy it's like you know it's like fucking oh it's deadwood babe that's it it's dodge city over there it's just brothels and there's a red light district gunfire and brothels it's crazy shit's on fire very cosmopolitan shit's on fire girls are flashing their tits you know offering up uh seven dollars while it's a mass $7 like in Deadwood. So, yeah, it's yeah, it's a bad place for. Yeah, it's five, five and seven dollars is the price list.

If you've got Deadwood. So he says, quote, the first day I went to school after we moved. He's 12. Mind you, I went out for recess and the guys wanted to smoke cigarettes in the restroom it's north carolina first of all too i mean it's smoking i remember in north carolina the late 90s smoking was just like it was still encouraged you could smoke everywhere and anywhere and the cigarettes were like a dollar 60 a pack because they grew it there so there was no taxes because it was from there so there's no state taxes which is the expensive part yeah so it was from there. So there's no state taxes, which is the expensive part. Yeah.

So it was like, oh, come on now. What are you about 11, 12 years? Well, you know what? He's a little your boy's a little chunky. Have you have you got him on a pack of luckies a day? Have you tried that? I feel like he could slim down. That's what they used to do back then.

Also, they could feel the clamps of society close closing in that that that industry is about to start shrinking. Yeah. Fucking campaigns on TV about... This was before that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, yeah, but that started to come up. I'm saying in the 90s. Oh, in the 90s, yeah. They knew, oh, the 90s, they knew that shit. They knew it was going, uh-oh.

There was federal anti-smoking campaigns that were very well funded. 1952, it was smoking is good for you there was on commercials it would be a doctor going these are the best cigarettes for you the best for your health and they'd be literally these are the healthiest cigarettes you can smoke that's that's what they used to show back then they would four out of five doctors smoke camel remember that was that was an ad or three out of four whatever the fuck number it was amount of doctors smoke camels because they're the smoother cigarette they hurt less yeah it's fucking crazy i'm not even kidding i wish i was it's crazy funny so he said that yeah

the guys wanted to smoke cigarettes in the restroom. I thought that was awful. Really? He was, oh, very against it. And Shelby, we don't do those sort of things in Shelby. He said, I found out in the summer what liquor was. Oh, no. It was nothing for a boy 12, 13, or 14 years old to take a drink. Well, yeah, that's a lot of places. It seemed like at that time i had to accept things

like that or sort of be left out i know if i had stayed in shelby north carolina i wouldn't have run into that so he has no willpower if it's around he's got to do it but if he would have stayed as long as he never encounters anything bad he would have stayed away from it so is that what he's saying is that he has to do it yeah he said it's i had to accept things like that or sort of be left out so i had to drink and smoke too or else i would have been left out yeah that's that's those are called choices that you make you cannot do that and be left out if you want and that's fine and then you go on to other shit because you graduate high school and then you leave and you don't fucking ever talk to these people again

who cares what they think it doesn't matter people hang out with people that have common interests at that stage in their life yeah you don't drink and smoke no we you're a fucking dork i don't want you around me because i'm if you're a drinker and a smoker yeah exactly so he said he had to do it but he said you know in shelby that wouldn't have been there so therefore he wouldn't have done it okay but i mean if one person was doing it he would have to do it, but he said, you know, in Shelby, that wouldn't have been there, so therefore he wouldn't have done it. But, I mean, if one person was doing it, he would have had to do it, too, but that's different. The coolest guy you can hang out with is the guy that says, do what you want, I'll do what I want, we still hang out together. That's fine. Yeah, that's good shit.

But, yeah, no, he has to go with the flow, and it's all about, you know, you know how it was back then. Grease was the word, and you had to get your car ready to go down to Thunder Road and race for the titles, racing for. The non-filter hanging out of your face. That was the only way to do it, Jimmy, with your hand goop in your hair. While some Australian broad takes her shoes off in a filthy fucking drainage ditch to watch you. You know how it works, Jimmy. The 50s was a crazy time.

So, yeah, he played once he was 17. He was playing on a prison team, he said, in baseball, which I'll believe that. He liked baseball. But I don't think he played on school teams it doesn't sound like it never so he went from being not playing at all to just being like a superstar in prison that the yankees had to come take a look at right it's a little bit weird instead of making it all the way to the yankees and the you know for the end of that end of that dynasty run in the late 50s and all that shit, and maybe been there to watch Mantle and Maris race for 61. Instead, he becomes heavily involved with drugs, both using and dealing.

And by the way, that's hard to do in the late 50s. You've got to really seek drugs out in the late 50s. Yeah, what was he doing? Was it like coke and stuff? It was very underground whatever he i think he liked uh he was selling possibly heroin because heroin was a big drug back then it was expensive so yeah you could make some money doing that he um he was arrested for numerous things like safe cracking we've all been arrested for safe cracking right

wow you got when's your last safe cracking bus jimmy what's been a minute uh early 2000s i feel like you've been clean since then probably oh two yeah it's the last it's around when i was last busted for safe off of it really it's hard because it's you know once you got the ear for it it's like it's free money how do you not do it you know and also that ear is it's very specific to just that it's those little clicks you got it's the clicks you either have the gift or you don't and if you have it why waste it is what i'm getting And also that ear, it's very specific to just that. It's those little clicks. You got to listen. It's the clicks. You either have the gift or you don't. And if you have it, why waste it is what I'm getting at. You're the big one. You know that's where it's at.

That's it. Also carrying a gun and committing arson by contract. Oh. Which means someone paid him to burn something down, which is fucking nuts. I didn't know that was a thing. If you wanted something burnt down, if you want something burned to the ground, and then someone was like,

I know a guy who'll do it, that guy's crazy, the guy who'll do it, right? Who's the guy who you know will burn something down for money? That's not a normal guy, right? I knew he was going to do it. Absolutely. We all know that guy. He'd just like, you throw him your keys and be like, I don't want to pay the car payment on this anymore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd do that. Yeah. That's the equivalent here of like they put it in a river or bury it in somebody's farm that they do here with a backhoe and give them like 500 bucks and they'll bury your car. It's gone forever. It's that. Yeah. It's one of those deals.

Arson by contract uh also like i said carrying a gun and um well other things too he's got he's got quite the track record here um police pretty much whenever there's a crime around town he's the first guy they go talk to they like well let's talk to dennis first and see if he did it and then we'll go from there he's the he's the guy the primary guy in town fire contract guy that probably did it yeah oh also shooting into an occupied structure was oh don't do that was another one of his uh crimes oh my god that's an escalation drugs guns safe cracking arson by contract, shooting into occupied structures. It's crazy that we put a kid in prison when he was 16.

Yeah. And he's turned into this? He's turned into this. Amazing. It's hard to tell what happened here because I feel like whether he went to prison or not, because bad checks wasn't the only thing he was doing. Okay. It's not like he bought, he's like,

Oh, I got to get baseball equipment for my sandlot team. And we're, you know, we got a big game. So I'm going to, it wasn't one of those for Louisville. No,

you know what I'm saying? Like he's, he was a scumbag and I feel like he would have gone that direction, but I don't think prison at 17 was at 16. Really? When he went to jail originally was probably the best idea for him but i don't know i mean i'm not the judge who was looking at him but it sounds like one of those things like we're going to teach this young man a lesson this ought to straighten

you out you taught him a lesson all right had a safe crack and like do other crimes and learned about drugs and shit like teach you a lesson you made him a journeyman yeah you made him a journeyman criminal now so serving apprenticeship behind bars by 1960 man he's you know or 19 say it's 62 63 he's probably got his sleeves rolled up with his cigarettes in him and fucking he's got a prison tattoo. Yeah. His all of his idols are race car drivers. That's who he loves.

He loves. I don't fucking know whoever was around in 19. Richard Petty. Nobody in particular. I don't know what the hell. Probably. Petty. Was he around in 1960? Yeah.

Was he? I have no idea. But yeah. He was in the late 60s and early 70s, but definitely in the 60s. There you go. So he idolized, and back then those guys were like, the race car drivers then, a lot of them were like actual moonshiners. So they were actually like, there was race car drivers that had criminal records of moonshining

and stuff. So I think that they had more of like that outlaw image back then. And that's what he liked. Well, Richard Petty's car was painted Petty Blue, James, and the blue, how they made the color was he had seven different colors of blue, and he just mixed them all together and then sprayed it over this car. So how did he get that color? He's like, fucking Fino. Shit of Fino. Can't reproduce it.

I don't know. We're going to have to send it to a chemist or something. it i don't know we're gonna have to send it to a chemist or something what you do is you paint a pinto this color and then you keep what's left then you paint a charger this color keep what's left and so on and so forth and then clear coat that motherfucker oh man um so in addition to this the tattoo which was like i said a prison tat back then was a very big statement um all this stuff is race car idolization he people said that at his house he had we don't know what part it was a quote human body part oh preserved in a jar he had just a piece of somebody in like a jar of formaldehyde that he just like

kept it in as like a you know like in young frankenstein he's got a jar like all the brain jars it's the same type of thing kept it in his house as like a thing it's like a you know for parties and he said because the cops asked him about it, they were like, hey, who's that a piece of? And he said that he got it from a biker gang that he knew. I got it from a biker gang. It's not even like I cut it off of somebody. It was down payment on a barn. I got a torch.

Yeah, I got to tell you, they said, well, I'll give you Bill's leg. And we were like, oh, well, we negotiated down to the foot, basically. And here it is. He said that he only kept it to show off at parties. It was a good conversation starter. It's a conversation piece is basically what it is. I don't want to have that conversation. Jimmy, you put it out on the coffee table.

People go, oh, man. And then you go, yeah, man, that's so it's a foot. And then you talk about biker gangs, and then you know how it goes, Jimmy. Eventually, you start talking about Harley's. It's a great night great no parties were different in the early 60s you just don't understand that's all you just don't get it man you don't get it man such a l7 square you are a square you are not hip in the slightest what a weenie you are are just, man, this is sad stuff. You'd be outside the coffee house right now. No one would want anything to do with you. You're not hearing.

Looking out the window, shaking their head at me. None of my poetry with my bongos involved in it. You're not hearing it. I won't let you. I'm keeping it to myself now. Kiss my ass. He just kept it for fun? Just kept it to show.

It's a conversation starter. That's what it to show it's a conversation starter. That's what it is. It's a centerpiece. It's, you know, like an art. It's like art, but gross, you know. So they, even the officials, the police officials described him at the time as intelligent but uneducated. Because he was. Okay, I can see that.

That's what he is. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah, I don't have, I don't have a GED have a ged but i you know i'm not the complete moron so breathe and stuff but i don't know shit he oh also he got arrested for forgery breaking and entering all sorts of stuff this lasts all the way through from the early 60s when they're late 50s really when it starts all the way up until the mid to late 70s this is happening in and out of jail for this variety of charges body parts in his house and you know he's living a weird life jimmy this is a strange strange life here he um he insists that baseball was his route and he's just sad that it didn't work out

he said this is in the mid 70s he said this so he's about 35 he said quote if i hadn't gotten into trouble i think i would be retired from playing professional baseball right now probably are you presumptuous i can't imagine any life uh any better than living down by my grandfather's farm in Cleveland County, maybe coaching Little League or American Legion baseball. Yeah, come around all the kids. That's what you need. This is the guy we want around here.

I've wished many times I'd had a son so I could teach him to play baseball. I'd just spoil him to death. If I had a daughter, it would be the same way. I'd give them anything they wanted. Any body parts and jars they desired i'd give it to him and if i couldn't afford it damn it i'd forge a check for it because it's gonna happen he's living a he's living a weird life here uh very very much of a weird life um he but he always keeps diaries in jail, by the way, which is interesting. Okay. It's time to see this man, Jimmy.

Yes. And everyone out there at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, you have got to see this guy's goddamn face because, okay, there it is. Oh, what? Is he a terrifying looking man or what what is that's a ghoul he looks like a ghoul he looks like his eyes are sunken in they're dead he looks like he could if this was a horror movie he wouldn't have to touch you he'd be the guy that could just suck your soul out from across the room if he saw you and locked eyes with you, your soul would come out with lightning and shit,

and then your body would crumble without the bones in it. That's what would happen. You know in Goosebumps, the doll? He looks like the doll minus the tuxedo, because that's prison garb. He's terrifying looking. His face is, yeah. It's just a very basic face. Very drawable. Yeah. you could draw that man's

face but you he's the guy you wouldn't if you're a kid you're not knocking on his door on halloween fuck no you're not you're like oh that's the scary guy and you run right by because he looks like there's no costume needed no so anyway they find he's the man they want to talk to about the death of Kenneth Wayne Arnder. And that guy's 38 at this time. That guy's 38. Kenneth Wayne Arnder is 18. Now, Arnder, he's 18 years old, obviously. He is the second youngest of six.

So comes from a big family. His mom's name is Wilma Arnder. She works at a chicken plant inspecting yeah anytime we're in the south and there's someone works at a chicken plant jimmy makes the same face he's like oh god you can just smell it you can smell it you just death in the air it's yeah man it's so yeah he's she works there um so hard-working lady she her husband left her early so she has been raising all six kids by herself working at the chicken plant chicken plant money is financing six children growing up sick yeah six kids so a lot of chicken plants it's a lot of it's a lot of chicken inspecting you got to

inspect a lot of chickens for that shit so um she's got all this going on but she's holding it together the family is a decent family now kenny he's a tall kid he's uh he has long hair because it's the 70s i mean it's he's a 70s like a pot smoker in the 70s man he's gonna have fucking long hair yeah he just is you saw my dad in the 70s he's you know long hair so thriving so that's what he's doing he's known as like a real easygoing guy like mr chill he's all stoned he's got cool t-shirts on time he's living life man he's doing well he does fall in with this is unbeknownst to his mom his mom doesn't really know what he's up to outside the house as back then your kid went outside and that was it they came home later or they didn't there was no there was no like you didn't parents didn't know everything the kids were doing back then right going out mom

all right bye who you going with my friends all right that was it there was yeah yeah it was the 70s it's not like now where you got to get everybody's fucking profile and, okay, well, let me look. Hold on. Let me do a background check on their parents first and make sure. Oh, well, you just went out. And it's so easy. Yeah. He just, he started falling in with kind of a shitty, they were saying kind of a rough crowd.

Guys that are selling drugs here and there and stuff. A little bit more than just kind of typical bullshit teenager stonerism you know what i mean a little bit more than that but if you smoke weed at that point you've got to know at least one unsavory dude otherwise you don't get to smoke weed that's the thing yeah you have we have to have backups even if the guy you get it from is cool but what about if he doesn't have it one day? Well, then you got to go to plan B and plan C. And then those people suck. Yeah.

Or you can't find that guy. Or he moves or whatever. Fuck. He's out today. Yeah. Or he gets caught. I think this dude has some. Yeah.

Or he's busted. Oh, shit. Yeah. So he starts doing that. Sometimes, see, Kenny would like intermittently like live away from home for a couple weeks. I don't know if it's because there was a lot of kids in the house or because he just liked to go like kind of smoke weed and get a chick out there. I don't know what he was up to,

but he would kind of come back, but not a bad kid, never gets arrested or anything. And he's also, everybody says real nice guy. He's a nice guy. He's an easygoing kind of cat. July 20th,

1978. Why the fuck, you know, Dennis Stockton has talked about it all in this on july 20th 1978 kenny arnder uh he calls dennis stockton on the phone yeah so kenny initiates this call stockton stockton is at his home calls him up um arnder asked if he would do him a big favor so look i need a big favor from you. He looked up to, this is the other fucking thing, when you're 18 years old and you're kind of a half-assed outlaw, because that's kind of where we both were too.

When you're like that, these older scumbags are kind of like your role, not role models, but kind of like you look up to them, kind of. You know what I mean? That's the sad part. They've gone the stretch of this life doing that. Yeah. And they're still there doing it. So that's kind of why it might, yeah. And you assume they know stuff that you don't know about the world.

You wouldn't call it a hero as much as a legend. Not a hero. Yeah. Yeah. He was kind of like, he looked up to him is what his mom said. Kenny's mom said that Kenny looked up to him. He admires him. And he asked him if he would drive, will you please, Dennis Stockton, drive me, Kenny, to Kibler Valley, Virginia, which is just, it's very close by, but it's a remote wooded area out there, kind of near the border still.

And he said, look, I i gotta get out of town tonight somebody's looking for me um i'm real scared because i this guy saw me stealing tires off his car and um he's kind of a bad dude so i don't want him to find me so don't steal tires off a bad guy's car first of all is a smart thing if you know. Make sure you don't get caught, too. That'd be the other one. If you know the people, first thing, that's the first mistake. If you know them and you know that they're badder than you. Dangerous.

Yeah. You're scared of them to the point where you need to run to a forest. Yeah. What the fuck were you thinking, Kenny? That's the thing. Kenny's not making the best decisions here, but that happens. So he said, look, I'm just going to go hang out in the woods tonight. There's a park out there.

I'll sleep on a bench. It doesn't matter. I'm just going to get away so nobody can find me tonight, and then I'll work it all out tomorrow. How's that say? How's that? Wilma Arnder. She said that about 6 p.m. Dennis Stockton arrived at the house and came in the house and she had seen him a few times before. So she knew of him. Why are you hanging out this 38 year old fucking guy with prison tattoos would be my question. But I mean, you know, who knows?

Who knows? So who knows what Kenny told his mom, though? So he said a little while later they left and he told his mom that he was going to a picnic area in Kibler Valley to hide, quote, while things cooled off. So he told his mom, look, I stole some fucking wheels off this car. People are pissed at me. I got to go hang out in a picnic area for the night. So I'm going to do that. He now Stockton while at the

house dennis stockton told the mom i'm gonna leave him there i'll come home and i'll go get him in the morning and bring him back to you so that's what we'll do doing him a favor so she was like yeah all right have a good one thanks for driving my son to sleep in a park tonight appreciate it appreciate it have a good one um hope nobody kills him i gotta work in the morning there's a lot of chickens to be fucking looked at here yeah this woman's very busy she's got five other kids is the other thing so he's 18 years old and he said he's going out to a park because he stole some wheels whatever what's she gonna do about it you know so yeah that's what i mean there's nothing you can do about it if the kid's 18 too so. So they've known each other for months here, Kenny and Dennis.

And he says he would drop them off. They leave at about 6 o'clock. But later on here, Stockton returns around midnight to that house. He comes back to the Arnder house without kenny yeah and says there's a party going on at the house so there's a bunch of people having a party at kenny's house at kenny's mom yeah i don't know if kenny's mom was i don't know what the hell's going on here but he said there was a party uh either way the next morning no word from anybody kenny doesn't come home on the morning of July 21st. And so finally, after a minute here, Wilma reports him missing and says, you know, he left the house with Dennis Stockton, was going to go drop him off here.

People are mad at him about wheels. I don't know what's going on. So this goes on for a few days until finally July 25th is when he's found. So he was out there for five days. That explains the deep in the mid July heat and the humidity down there. That explains the decomposition. And like we said, placed it like in the form of a cross, hands chopped off, bullet hole in the forehead. Now, after this, she Stockton, Dennis Stockton telephoned Wilma after he was reported missing and said, oh, he's missing.

He read in the paper that Kenny was missing and he's like, what's going on there? And then again, after the body was found, he called and went, oh, my God, that's terrible. Kenny was found dead. Oh, Jesus Christ. They must have got to him while he was at the park that night. What a terrible tragedy. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the

exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Mor follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts wilma said she suspected him of being the killer of dennis right away because she was the last person to leave the house with. But she said that she couldn't imagine someone could be so cold blooded that she could they could kill their friend that they've been friendly with and somebody, you know, 18 years old like that and call the mom twice about it. Yeah. So she was iffy on the whole thing. So let's they just keep describing a slogan. J joking about drugs is what he's wearing um a necklace with a white stone i wonder if that was a roach like a roach clip they used to have

the like the white stones or if it's like a white stone like a puka shell like a puka shell or if it's like one of those grohlschlager tops that you could put a joint in remember that was the the big one the the stone grohlschlager i don't know that you know grohlschlager beer the green beer it's got like the top that pops off oh yeah yeah yeah with the they're made out of they're made out of plastic now but they used to be made out of stone and they were the perfect like you'd put a joint in it was the best really yeah it was great stick it in there perfect yeah i had no idea those are a big thing ah jimmy should smoke more weed so anyway that was that was the thing people used to do plastic by the time i came around to james and now they switched them i don't know because i didn't i didn't do that that was

like something i heard about people doing from like oh back in the 70s used to do that i don't i never fucking was around uh was those i tried to find them when I worked at a beer distributor and they bring back the empties. Whenever you find those, you'd be like, oh, cool. But they are mostly plastic. So anyway, he's he's wearing the same clothes that he was wearing when he left necklace and everything when he left the house. So he's they said they don't know whether he was killed by the gunshot wound or the severing of the hands. They're not sure. He could have bled out.

He could have, yeah. They chopped his goddamn hands off above the wrist, so he could have very easily bled out and then got shot in the head or vice versa. But they don't think this is where he was killed, number one, in this exact spot. And he's been out decomposing so long it's hard to tell at this point. So very difficult. And I don't know if medical technology was the same in 1978 as it is right now, either. So I would think not. So the mother, Kenny's mother said, quote, Dennis called several times while Kenny was missing. The night Kenny's body was identified, Dennis called me again. I told him I was expecting a call from the north carolina state bureau of investigation they were going to identify the body dennis asked me how i said with dental records and then he hung up abruptly and never called back again this fucking moron didn't know that dental records

were how you identify bodies he chopped the hands off and thought done deal that's what he thought it'll be too decomposed by the time anybody finds it hands are gone there's a guy that's never been to a dentist nope well he just didn't know that that was a way that they identify people it was crazy so he never called back again wilma said she said during the investigation i was hoping they find out somebody else did it because dennis was supposed to be kenny's friend kenny must have trusted dennis it takes a cold-blooded killer to kill someone who thinks you're his friend yeah like he thinks he's like in the mafia or something now there is a theory here there's a lot of rumors flying around there's a bunch of 70s kids and drugs and stuff so they're all everybody's ends up being busted by the cops

the cops know who to talk to round up the long hairs and we'll talk to them all so yeah there's a rumor that kenny purchased drugs unknown quote-unquote drugs from a guy named tommy mcbride in 1978 the the the cost of this package was 500 bucks apparently and i guess kenny paid 125 upon receipt of said drugs and promised to pay the balance later so he got affronted to him so 75 is coming back at you once i unload this once i unload it whatever it's called a front happens all the time especially if you know people apparently the according to this rumor the payment didn't come quickly and so this mcbride wanted to have him killed wanted to have kenny ardner killed he's like this this is crazy i can't wait anymore for 37575. I'm going to kill my friend, which is really, really hardcore.

Yeah. That's a lot. That's a ruthless drug dealer. That's a ruthless fucking in Mayberry, mind you. This is a Mayberry drug dealer. Ruthless. What's up with nothing? Nothing.

I would say if you owe somebody $375 and they're going to kill you over it and you know them well enough for them to front you drugs, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. If you owe a loan shark $375, they won't kill you. They want the money. All you need to do is put juice on them. You know what I mean? Just tell them, all right, $375.

Now it's $400. Next week it's $450. Get me my fucking money. That's how you get your money back. Not like this. I'll be back. Yeah, not to kill him so anyway um we'll go back to june of 1978 before all this murder happened here dennis stockton was visiting the home of tommy mcbride okay this is the whole information that

the investigators have gotten uh in addition to denniston and Tommy McBride. Now, McBride, like we said, is the one who'll allegedly knock you off for 375. There also is McBride's wife, Diane, a guy named Ronnie Tate, a woman named Sunshine Hatcher, and Randy Bowman is another one. Bowman is going to come up a lot later. So remember that name. Now, it's at this point that McBride offered, this is what they've heard, McBride offered Randy Bowman $1,500 to, quote, kill the Ardener boy. He's going to pay $1,500 to lose $375?

To lose $375. That's why this story seems. I mean, I get PR in crime like we're gonna make a statement with this like like in the wire when they left omar's boyfriend on the hood of the car all burnt up and tortured that was a statement they're making a statement this is uh 1500 though to to get 375 you're not john gaudy this is you don't need to make a statement this they're not gonna start ripping you off on the construction unions if you don't make a stand here there are 10 000 people in this town you're not making a statement to the other uh 999 99 however many it is no

you're really not what you're doing is making a statement to the police because there's a very limited number of criminals in a small town like this so yeah and uh apparently upon hearing the offer this is what everybody said dennis stockton jumped in and said oh whoa whoa you're got 1500 bucks up he said i need the money more than him i'll kill him fuck that he goes i'll do it for 1500 you don't need randy bowman i'm the man fuck you talking about i've been so yeah i'll do this shit so apparently they everybody said at that point dennis stockton and mcbride went into a bedroom and to talk it over they were like all right i'll come in the bedroom and we'll talk about who does this in front of other people by

the way same people who have out a body part on the table to start a conversation when you're in this kind of gathering i guess so apparently um at that point randy bowman left the house and they said within a month or two um that's when bob randy bowman said that he read about kenneth ardener's murder in the newspaper and he was like oh shit that was what i was there that night that was my 1500 bucks so there's a there's that's out the window. There's a guy named Ronnie Tate as well. Ronnie Tate was apparently with Dennis Stockton when Kenny Ardner was murdered. Oh, okay. Yeah, there's a witness here to this. Now, that would be very helpful later on. But there's a reason why we don't hear a lot from Ronnie Tate. And I'll tell you what that is. I'll tell you what that is. Dennis Stockton believed that Tate was talking about the murder. Okay.

So a guy named Robert Gates testifies that in July 1979, Dennis Stockton asked Robert Gates if Ronnie Tate had been, quote, running his mouth about the murder of Kenneth Ardner. So apparently Ronnie Tate had told Gates that he and Stockton killed Ardner, but Gates was like, no, I haven't heard anything about it. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know anything about that sort of thing. Yeah, he was not trying to, you don't want to get somebody, you're trying not to cause static.

I don't want to admit that he told me and then now I know something. I don't want him rubbing that guy out for talking about it and then me hearing about it and now i know about it i don't want to know about it so they were like all right that's cool no problem um so later on that same day there's something that i guess happens often here uh dennis stockton gates and ronnie tate the guy who was maybe running his mouth the mouth runner they all went to camp civitan in Forsyth County, North Carolina, to pick up 10 pounds of weed. Okay. So that's a lot back then.

Yeah, that's a shitload of weed. It's a lot now. It's a lot of weed no matter what. But back then, that was a very illegal amount of weed. Right. You know? Now it's whatever. Now it's trafficking.

Not even just intent to distribute. That'll get you in a lot of trouble. That's illegal. Jesus Christ. You go to prison forever for that back then. Now it's like, now in New York State, you're allowed to have three ounces of weed and an ounce of concentrates. That's so much weed. I'm not complaining. It's great, but it's to get rid of the ticky-tack fucking violations.

But yeah, that's a lot of weed you're allowed to have. Three ounces is a fuckload of weed. Yeah. You could basically have a quarter pound of product there on you, just on you at all times. That's so much weed. It's a lot of weed. It's a big bag. It's a trunk. Yeah.

Well, QP isn't a lot. A QP you can fit in a fucking- It's the big bag. Yeah. It's a gallon Ziploc bag. Yeah. But especially now because the buds are nice. They're not all compressed, so it's going to be a little more than that.

So anyway, they're picking up 10 pounds of, I assume, just dirt, shit, brown, compressed. Grown in the holler. Real nasty fucking dirt weed they're picking up here. So after arriving, though arriving though apparently according to gates dennis stockton pulls out a 38 caliber pistol and points it at tate ronnie tate and he starts accusing ronnie tate of quote running that damn mouth of yours you've been running that goddamn mouth of yours i've been hearing and he's pointing a 38 at him and uh you know ronnie tate said i don't know i haven't told nobody about blah, blah, even though he had been talking.

But still, he's like, I haven't been telling anybody about shit. I don't know what you're talking about. And he says, quote, I know you've been running your mouth about Kenny Ardner and then shot him three times in the chest. Holy shit. Yeah. Shot him three times in the fucking chest. And we'll find out what happened to him. But they got rid of the body and everything.

It's a fucking it's crazy, oh my yeah he'll leave for some reason though he's like i'll kill this guy but then i'm sure the gates guy won't say anything to anybody like he hasn't this guy just saw it too have you not learned your lesson about killing people in front of other people like it's probably not the smart way to do it. It sounds like a guy that goes to prison at 16 and doesn't learn his lesson. Something like that. This will come back to haunt him later on, big time. I'm going to save it until then to tell you exactly how they got rid of the body. But yeah, shoots him through the chest three times to get rid of any loose ends.

loose end so right if you killed someone for quote running that damn mouth about that murder i assume you did that first murder he was quote running his damn mouth about right i think so yeah you must have if you must have if you're worried about it otherwise you'd be like run your damn mouth all you want i didn't do shit i got an alibi i don't know what you're talking about I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Not quite, though. So that was 1979. During all of this, the police questioned. They questioned Dennis Stockton within days after the body was discovered of Kenny Ardner. They questioned him because he was the last person that he was seen with.

One investigator, Jay Gregory, an investigator with the Patrick County Sheriff's Department, said he'd been assigned to investigate it. He said that he had several conversations with Stockton. Stockton told this investigator that Kenneth Ardner, quote, was getting his drugs from Tommy McBride and that McBride thought Ardner had stolen drugs from him and offered him money to kill Ardner. He said, of course, I didn't take it, though. That's crazy. But, I mean, if you're looking for someone, he was offering money around, so that's the guy to talk to. He said, but it wasn't me, obviously.

He said that I told him absolutely not. And he said that Ronnie Tate and Bob Hershberger told him they took the contract and did it. That's what he said. So it must have been those guys, Tate and Hershhberger told him they took the contract and did it. That's what he said. So it must have been those guys, Tate and Hershberger. Had to be. He said that Stockton said that he got a gun. The gun that Tate used to kill Ardner he got from a trade with this Hershberger guy. So they're all mixed up in the whole thing. So they're all mixed up in the whole thing.

He then said that he knows what happened because he drove Hershberger to the McBride house a short time after Ardner was murdered. And he said that Hershberger came out with $1,000, which he was payment for the murder. And Stockton said that $100 of it, Hershberger gave to him because Stockton provided him with a ride over there so that ride is worth a hundred dollars in murder money so you get 10 you get an agent's cut of my murder fee for giving me a ride to collect the money that that seems high that's that's barely gas money yeah that's it seems high for just a ride. So Stockton was forthcoming with the police, showing them all the guns he had in his house. Oh, I have guns. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which I don't know how he's allowed to have guns because he's like a fucking eight-time felon.

Yeah. He's arrested for shooting into an occupied structure. At that point, no more guns for you. Right. You're not allowed to have any anymore. You shot at willy-nilly you could have hit anything anything at all anybody none you don't get them anymore sorry you're on the you're on the bad list mister so on account of you don't know how to use it

exactly he uh he showed the cops the guns but they were all different calibers in the murder weapon so police gave a big shoulder shrug yeah and they just went on back to town took their kids fishing didn't fucking think another word about it there they're just like well i guess that's that ain't him oh boy he's got different guns i mean shit nobody nobody gets rid of a murder weapon i'm sure they usually put it right back in their case with the rest of them so must not have done it so they um yeah they they just took off meanwhile there's all sorts of evidence showing that he admitted to multiple people that he killed this kid and that uh he made the admission on three separate occasions, at least, let's get into those. In early 1980, he went to Michael Tate's home looking for a guy named Michael Tate. He's related to Ronnie Tate. And when he was informed that Michael Tate wasn't home, Dennis Stockton became very angry and told her that, quote, he and Tate had cut off someone's hands in kibler valley

and that he had ways of taking care of people so he's like listen here i'm mad he's not home he's supposed to be home and because he's not i'm going to tell you how i cut people's hands off and threaten people that's a fascinating way of saying all right i'll see you next time yeah that's a fascinating way of saying i'll try back later yeah try back later i'll give a call maybe before i come next time none of that just i'll cut people's hands off i'm not the man to fuck with so five o'clock you suck i'll call try back around five o'clock i have a good one now sorry about that did i wake up the kids yelling and scream oh jesus christ i didn't mean to do that baby's crying you go take care of I'll see you. He just walks on out to the car.

No, he's not here. I cut people's hands off. I cut their hands off, goddammit, in Kibler Valley. So now the summer of 1980 is his next admission of something. Randy Bowman, remember him, he saw Dennis Stockton at the Surrey County, North Carolina courthouse. Stockton was, of course, in a holding cell because, you know, that's where he spends a lot of his time. The holding cells. The usual.

Just in a holding cell downtown. Not very Mayberry. So he's in a holding cell with three or four other prisoners. Not even prison. Just a holding cell in the jail, like where the drunk goes in mayberry so voluntary bowman overhears stockton talking about the kenny ardner murder case and said that stockton said quote he killed somebody and that somebody couldn't live with it so then he had to go ahead and kill him too by his own account he should shoot himself in the chest three times he's a fucking idiot he

runs his mouth more than anybody else does did i mention i got a 160 iq and the yankees wanted me yeah because that's true too this is uh but he's in a holding cell so as soon as he gets in there he's like i gotta make myself a big man for all these prisoners let them know how tough i am just so y'all know i cut hands off i kill everybody i tell everyone about cutting hands off and then um for uh about four months in 1980 he was a cellmate with ricky williams not the running back oh damn they were cellmates in the car in the county jail during that time stockton told this guy that he had killed Kenny Ardner because Ardner quote had ripped off somebody for some drugs and that uh you know occurred in the Kibler Valley

later on he got in a fight with his cellmate Ricky Williams because he's sounds like a real pleasant guy to hang around with this fucking idiot Stockton they got in a fight and at that point Stockton told him that he cut off I cut off Ardner's hands and I'll do the same goddamn thing to you is what he said he threatened to cut his so if you piss him off his first go to is I have

I will cut your hands off because I've murdered before he'll tell anybody that Jesus Christ for the police it seems like an easy interrogation just piss him off and wait till he threatens to cut your hands off just like that goddamn ardenter kid and then you charge him and take him away that's it a very easy interrogation he's walking in the room and tell him uh i'll bet you don't cut hands off. Yeah. You're wrong. You're wrong. I do. God damn it.

I'll cut your hands off. So there's rumors flying around between that and the jail and other people. Like I said, every time someone gets pulled over and popped with a fucking nickel bag of weed, they're like, I know a guy who killed a guy, you know, like, and they start telling stories. So they have all these different tales weaving. Years go by, though. Four years are passing

in the what the fuck years that may be i don't know if you watched the andy griffith show you said you did um they didn't seem that wasn't a very aggressive investigation because i didn't see a lot of real aggressive investigations it was just the two of them or whatever i didn't see like a separate office where there was guys with paperwork you know going i'm working on the case there's none of that going on i didn't see it didn't seem like a real tight lip town either james but it also didn't seem like there was many cold cases around that that's what i'm getting like everything got zipped up pretty quick yeah i don't know i'm starting to think the tv is full of shit it's weird i'm starting to not believe anything about TV.

Seems like you put a man who's not real intimidating with those fucking googly eyes behind a gun and he's not going to get shit done. No, just not going to happen. I don't know what happened there. Yeah, it's weird. It's odd that Mr. Furley wouldn't crack the case. I really I find that strange. that mr furley wouldn't crack the case i really i find that strange because if i if i die i want don knots looking into it that's who i want to really i think he's gonna beat down the right doors and get where i need to be he'll avenge my death in the show too by the way oh i mean everything he's in that's his whole character it's he's a goofy looking dude everything up every day funny fucking i loved him on Three's Company. He was amazing. Oh, man.

When I was a kid, I'd watch the reruns of Three's Company on that night. They were always in syndication. And God damn, it was funny. Even in animation, cartoon Don Knotts is incredible. He is a cartoon. That's why. He is animation. Like, to animate him has got to be the easiest thing in the world because he's already done it for you.

It seems pointless at that point. He looks like a cartoon. That's why he's a funny man. What was the movie where he was a fish? I forget. Oh, yeah. What was that? Fish.

I almost said a fish called Wanda, but it definitely wasn't that. It was just the first thing that came to my head. Oh, the fish that that i forget the movie but he was a goddamn fish i think he turned into a fish the fish the uh the fish who raped me the fish the octo fish i don't remember it it's a yeah i see a fish movie yeah with that fish face the the incredible mr limpet limpet there you go mr limptic yeah the incredible mr limptic incredible movie yeah okay he was a fish and it was ridiculous to to animate it because james he's a goddamn fish hey look that's what i mean he looks like it anyway it works out perfect he already looks like a fish it's nice i love him i absolutely love him so when they talk to dennis again yeah he he's like well listen

dennis we've been hearing some stuff about that kenny ardner murder he goes you're not the only one that's been hearing stuff i've been hearing all sorts of rumors about i've been hearing left and right who did it and they're like well did you tell us about it yeah and he goes oh no i've just been hearing it i didn't tell nobody about i mean you know i'm busy guy i've been in jail in and out there's a lot going on here checking his watch contracts yeah that's a fire contract that's the things to do so um they they when he's in jail on and off that's they they'll talk to him in there that's when they the rumors always fire up because whenever he goes in jail he tells everybody about it then they all go right to the cops trying

to get time off their sentences and everything else like that um the police um at one point took him to his house because he asked he said i'll prove my innocence here watch this take me to my house this is fucking amazing here he believed he knew where the rumors were coming from this is what he said look i know where the rumors are coming from and i'll offer i'll reveal some new stuff to you you just gotta take me to my house okay from county jail so they were like all right why not i will bite so they take this guy to his house in a fucking for Galaxy, I'm sure, where he, this is his proof, okay? He showed them letters from a, quote, prominent citizen.

I don't know who the fuck that is. I don't know who could be so prominent as to clear you of murder with one letter, but you'd have to be pretty goddamn prominent to have the police go, here you go, you hand it over, and they go, I'll take a look at that, and they unfold it, and they look at it, and they go, oh, go. You hand it over. And they go, I'll take a look at that. And they unfold it.

And they look at it. And they go, oh, wow. We're sorry, actually. Yeah, no, we're going to get going now. We're really. No, this puts it all in perspective. We're really sorry about it. Here's your letter back.

Good God. Jesus, we just feel like assholes right now, honestly. Not going to happen. So prominent citizen who had written to Stockton offering him money to have a rival killed. Now, Stockton claimed he'd been given $2,000 with a promise of $3,000 more if he killed his rival. I don't know if this was a politician or some sort of thing like that. Stockton said he kept the money money but he never killed anyone there he also said he received another thousand dollars and a letter asking him to kill someone else why would you send

more money and ask for more death when the guy didn't even finish the first job and still has your money so ordering another pizza from a place that you didn't get the pizza from in the first place all right fine give me another one you know here's my credit card number like this i'm mad though this one better get here i'm serious really this time so um he said again he kept the money but didn't do anything about it he gave the letters to the police saying that the author of the letters might just be the same one who's spreading rumors about me killing kenny as a way of getting back at me for not carrying out the requested and paid for murders duh don't you guys know anything this is proof bye slam let me out he said this is proof positive that i didn't do it the fact that i'm accepting other hits is positive proof positive that i didn't do it the fact that i'm accepting other hits is positive proof positive

that i didn't fucking do the first hit no no i'm guilty of conspiracy not murder yeah several times but that's a completely different story completely different i'm conspiracy to commit murder and murder for hire not murder yeah god you fucking guys you just don't get it do i have to do your job for you jesus you know know what, Officer Furley? I think really. Can I talk to Andy Griffith then? Because I don't think you're very good at this. Yeah.

I don't know what his name was on the show. Who? Andy? Furley. Was it? What the fuck? It's nuts. Ah, God damn it.

It's one that everybody makes fun. It's the fucking old trope. Goddammit. Was Andy Griffith Andy Griffith? Yes. Wait, no. His real name's not Andy Griffith, is it? In the show.

What was his name in the show? Andy. What was his character's name? Andy what? Griffith? Not Griffith. Was it Griffith? Barney Fife, by the way, is what you're thinking.

Barney Fife. Barney Fife is the, yeah, he's a real Barney Fife. So, yeah. Andy Taylor. Opie Taylor. Okay. Opie and Andy Taylor. There you go.

So, anyway. It was definitely Andy. I know that because I can see Don not saying Andy. Andy. Yes. So, this obviously clears it all up with the letters, right? I mean, that's done and done. Done and done here.

By the way, these letters, which purport to further murder conspiracies and would be helpful. The police lost them. They took the letters. They never found them again. They're lost in evidence somewhere. They lost these letters that are, fuck, this is crazy. How do you lose this? How do you lose these?

They're, quote, unquote, exonerate a man. That's some evidence you need. So, well, yeah, even if it doesn't exonerate him, it definitely inculpates other people. Who wrote this letter? They're offering, how many other letters is he writing to people? Is he having people killed? This seems like something we should look into. Ah, we lost the letters, though.

Fuck it. This is some fife action big time here. So they're fifing, I would call it. That's the verb of being a Barney fife. They're doing a whole bunch of fifing around this town. Just fifing it all up. You fifed this thing all up, man. This investigation's mad fifed up.

It's just fifed up. So they bury Kennetheth ardner by the way once they bury kenneth ardner he's got a tombstone with an angel and the angel's like you know those ones without stretched kind of hands there uh he's got that someone broke the hands off the stone angel just like it happened to kenny oh that's mad and uh that's not good that's no presumably after he's dead and defaced his fucking headstone the same way he's his headstone wow all of that allegedly is over 375 dollars that's a you not no you paid four times as much to have him killed then once he's in the ground desecrated his fucking gravestone over 300 i'll show that motherfucker now he knows now people not to know no not to

steal an ounce of weed from me like wow that is crazy um the family repaired the the damage because you know it's their son so the hands were knocked off again. They keep coming back. They keep doing it. So finally they had to get rid of the angel. They had to get rid of his gravestone because they couldn't stop it from being desecrated. That's unbelievable. They should have just put like a rebar in it,

like a little iron piece or something. Yeah, just reinforce the hands. Yeah, reinforce them on, I don't know, something. Make them out of titanium. Instead they just had a flat stone carved with praying hands in the back of a in a little thing there they just did it they had to do it they had to do a regular stone because people just kept breaking the hands off of this thing so we don't know if that's that could be anybody but um yeah they sent a lot of times

they'll put flowers down the flowers get taken. But you said that for some reason in that graveyard, flower theft is a big thing. But you know, that's not really, they clean those up too, though. They do. Some people just take them and move them to their relatives thing, which is like. Fuck, I'm a cheap fuck, I forgot to bring them. Here, I'll use these ones. They don't know. Who are you trying to impress?

That's my problem. So you're going to desecrate a grave, commit a crime to try to impress a corpse? Like, what are you doing? Think about the mental, think about the thought process behind that. You're right. Think before you do things. But people do that. They'll take a balloon off a grave and put it on there and get well soon or some shit.

Grandma took a fucking duck from the pond. I mean, what's the difference, I guess? Here's some daisies that used to belong to that person oh my god her and her yeah she she would pilfer it she stole fucking body of christ and everything from the church the one day i ever tell you about that but that's given to you anyway she take like no no no no no no no she stole like the whole thing that you break up like the whole giant one. Oh, the big wafer. I didn't tell you about that. No, no.

This is Easter. A few years ago, we go over our house for Easter. Italians. Easter's a big deal in Italy. She did it in her 90s. She was at least 89 years old. 88 maybe. She's still pretty mobile.

But Easter do it and just let her do and easter eastern italy big deal you go around you have to like give uh old people or older people relatives you got to give them plants yeah not flowers because flowers are dead and cut out of the ground plants live so that means you'll be alive later to care for this plant so that's what you're doing now you have to be here now you got now you just gotta be. They give each other like baked goods and shit. It's a big deal in Easter. They go around with bread and like these little villages when my grandmother grew up.

A lot of this shit. Got to go over there on Easter. I go over. I see her handing out something. She's handing people shit. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? She comes over me and she goes, here, here, here. In my hand, like she's handing me like it's a drug deal or something.

I go up and I go, what the fuck is this? It's a little torn off piece of... What is it, Xanax? I go, what is that? Grandma, what are you doing? And she goes, I'm a body of Christ. I said, wait a sec, Grandma. Is that blessed?

I said, where the fuck, where'd you get that? She goes, I'm from the church. I said, they gave you that she goes I took it I said grandma you are missing the whole yeah you're you can't do but what do they care I'm not fucking gonna blah blah blah she starts yelling about that handing it out to me I'm like I'm not taking your pilfered body of Christ fuck off this is crazy what are you doing you can't do that I do what i want blah blah blah blah okay so you're just you're not a priest like what are you doing you can't just be slinging fucking body of

christ around the kitchen like you're funny it's crazy is what it is yeah right yeah she had to do it the funeral was her last she she likes attention grandma always and her last act of attention was to have us spread a disease throughout amongst ourselves during the funeral the one unavoidable thing i could not not do was be a paul i'm a fucking paul bear i have to be there Like there's no way out of it. So she's like, well, maybe you come with me in the ground. It's not bad. But come on.

It's OK. Wait here. Take this first. The body of Christ here. Take grandma. Yeah. In her will. What do you want to take with you?

I like to be buried with my my handsome grandson jimmy not time to jump inside goddamn funeral entire catholic mass jimmy a whole thing or something like this neil sit stand stand stand neil stand holy shit it's it's like old school too there's no like hey we're gonna make it enjoyable for people it's you sit in church and you hear about shit just sit there i lost my grandma and you're gonna torture me what the fuck it's fucking brutal and then they got covid too so i'm like this is just great this is just i had a i'm having a terrible few weeks man it's really one last time things are really going rough the last few weeks i gotta say so uh thank you everyone

for hanging out with us and doing all this shit tell your friends by the way we don't say it often enough but tell your friends about the show spread the show we're an organic spreading type of show so please do tell your friends spread it like cove spread it seriously Spread the show like COVID. Spread it. Seriously. If the show spread as easily as COVID, we'd be fucking doing much better. So that'd be great. Fuck it, man. So anyway, he's in a grave. Okay, there we go. Anyway, he said this is the mother, Wilma.

She said she rarely visits the grave anymore because she's scared to see if anything else is done to it at this point she said i can't imagine uh later on she said the last time i returned to the grave was four or five years ago sometimes i watched the late movies on tv how people go to cemeteries all the time i think maybe that's the way it's supposed to be but i just can't do it i can't go to that grave that's a way it's supposed to be, but I just can't do it. I can't go to that grave. That's a personal choice of how you like to deal with your grief. And if it makes it worse every time you go, some people, it comforts them to go. Never know. It's one of those deals.

Some people, it's the last place they saw them. So they just go there. They're drawn to it. And that's where the body is. Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes they feel like they're communicating with them if they go there. Like I feel closer to them if they go there. Sometimes you go, oh, yeah. Six feet of dirt. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like they're communicating with them if they go there. Like I feel closer to them if they go there.

Sometimes you go. Oh, yeah. This is six feet of dirt. Yeah. And sometimes you go. Oh, yeah. This person's super fucking dead and buried now. And that's even more depressing because I.

Yeah. So either way, it depends on who you are, I guess. So 1982, finally, four years later, Stockton is charged with the murder of Kenny Ardender. So he is, this is when, finally, they wouldn't do it because they never had anybody to testify against him. Finally, they get another convicted felon to testify against him to say that he heard Stockton agree to a contract on his life. So we'll get into that shit here. Now, like I said, this is four years later. They do it.

So obviously, evidence has gone away. It's a tough trial here. It's tough. And this trial, by the way, is for the death penalty. So it's for all the marbles, number one. Number two, this trial, everything is going to take place in Stewart, Virginia, not in North Carolina. They had a fight. Virginia and North Carolina fought over who was going to fucking try this guy for the death penalty

because they think he's from Mount Airy and the body was found in Mount Airy, North Carolina. Right. But Virginia authorities, according to what they've heard, the murder actually took place in Virginia at that park they went originally. Okay. He took him out there, shot him, then put him in the car, drove him back to North Carolina, and dumped him. So they said he actually was killed here so it's our jurisdiction not yours even though he's from there everybody in the case is from there and the body was found there so it's fucking weird they go back and forth of who's going to do it virginia ends up being the

big winner here and getting the trial congratulations virginia now you get to spend the money on this yay you uh they go to Stewart, Virginia here. Finally, in 83, the trial takes place. That's how long this shit goes. Yeah, the the the prosecutor's case is fifteen hundred dollars. He accepted for murdering Kenny Ardner, took the money from Tommy McBride. They said that McBride was angry that art for with Ardner for crossing him on a a drug deal, wanted Ardner killed as a message to the others. This was about messaging.

This was not about $375. This is about I wanted to show everybody you fuck with me, you end up dead with your hands cut off. Investing almost two grand in that is amazing. This guy saw some like fucking organized crime movies and was like yeah you gotta really show him you gotta cut the dick off and put it in his mouth i feel like it's the only way they're gonna know if they're talking so he said that uh they're all saying that the mother obviously wilma ardner testifies that the last person she saw her son with was dennis stockton randy bowman testifies that i was at the house when mcbride i know this because mcbride mcbride tried to pay me the 1500 before i could say yes before

i could get the air out of my lungs to say yes this dude jumped in and was like i'll fucking kill him fuck that screw kenny randy bowman so he said that's what happened. Randy Bowman says that. He was over there, by the way, at the McBride house trying to sell some stolen goods to McBride. So he was fencing stuff right then. I'm trying to fence stuff and I get offered a murder contract. You know how that is. It happens all the time. That's all it is.

It's serendipity or synergy? They call it in business. It's a synergy thing, really. It works. Right hand shakes the wall. That's it. Yeah. Vertical integration. That's the other one they like to say.

It's vertical integration. That's all. You sell this, you get this. It's back and forth. It's an asshole buzzword. Synergistic vertical integration. Very fortuitous. Very very very fortuitous his testimony by the way is the only evidence there's no evidence they have no gun they have no all they have he said she said in this shit they have the kenny's mother saw him leave with Stockton.

Right. Last person to be seen with him. And then this guy, Randy Bowman, was there when the murder contract was taken. He heard him accept it, didn't hear, didn't see money change hands, anything like that. They went in the bedroom. But he said that's the only evidence. And mom's got also the phone call of heard they found a body. Yeah, it's him how they

know through dental records click click yeah that's super and then a bunch of circumstantial rumors yeah that's kind of a thing but only actual testimony in court of one person saying that and what happens is the way stockton will defend that is he'll just blame Bowman for the murder. And he's got a whole thing later on about why it was Bowman and it wasn't him. Now, the sheriff of Surrey County, North Carolina, also submitted an affidavit indicating that he thought Bowman was the actual killer. He said that while he was in jail or I'm sorry, this is the opposite of that. He said that while he was in jail, or I'm sorry, this is the opposite of that. He said that Bowman's definitely not the killer because from July 3rd to August 16th, 1978, he files an affidavit saying that Bowman was in continuous custody in the Surry County Jail. We've had him locked up.

So from the 3rd to the 16th. Yeah. Yeah, definitely right in the middle there is the murder. Those dates obviously do that. But he contends, our guy here contends fucking Stockton, sorry. Stockton contends that Bowman was recommended for work release on July 13th. So he probably would have got out. He said that he probably would have got out on work release.

He could have been on work release then, and it just wasn't documented, or they're covering it up to make me look more guilty. One of the two. Either way, that's how it works. That's part of the defense. Stockton testifies in his own defense. Remember, he thinks he's real fucking smart.

These fucking asshole killers who think they're so goddamn smart they have to get up and do it. They always have to testify. He denies that he ever met with Tommy McBride and that McBride hired him to kill Ardner, which there's several people that said he was there. The only guy who said they heard of the murder proposition was Bowman. But everybody else said he was at least there. So right away, his credibility is fucked. He's like, I was never there.

Five people said you were there, dude. You like give me a break um um but um then um tommy mcbride though says that uh he never hired him to kill because you know obviously then he's a conspirator in this he said i didn't kill this guy they don't by the way charge tommy mcbride here at all is the other weird part no i don't know because they have no their whole their whole point is conspiracy yet they're not charging anybody with a conspiracy it's weird uh tommy mcbride testified he said that he referred to kenny arden or as kenny errington that's what he knew him as. Another guy, Donald York, was called for the state. He testified that he and Tommy McBride were cellmates. And in early October, 82, McBride told him that the Arrington boy had ripped him off and that he had Stockton kill Arrington, which is what he which McBride himself testified he referred to Kenny Ardner as.

So there's that. So this goes to the jury here and uh that's the case that's the case i was it was intentionally brief on my part because that's the whole case the case horrible the case in court is not great because the police really failed to do a whole shitload of things yeah they couldn't really make a great case on it that's all four years later things are gone there's no physical evidence shits in the wind they could they didn't right away when they talked to him they didn't take his car in they didn't fucking test it for blood they didn't bring the truck in have it fucking

completely luminoled for blood to see if the guy was carried in the back of the truck and had it just maybe hosed it out afterwards or something. This is so bad. Nothing. Didn't swab it for blood. Didn't do anything. Any of the things that you would do to get physical evidence, they were just like, they went to his house, looked at his guns. They went, well, he doesn't have the right caliber and left. That was their fucking investigation of him.

Which the last person to see him alive which is with a criminal record this fucking long right it's insane like that and he looks like that you go did you eat him what did you do with him like did you would you eat his hands you're a fucking monster you guy looks like a monster you are that you look like that your your record says this. And whose body part is that? What is that floating in the format? What's happening here?

But you don't have the same caliber? We're going to move on. We're moving on. Fine. He looks like you could sell his face as a Halloween mask. Yeah. And it's terrifying. Yeah.

It's terrifying. Like, it's not good. So the verdict comes in um now no physical evidence no weapon no anything the jury deliberates you'd imagine this would take a while to yeah you're gonna have some people going there's no evidence and some people going well i still think he did it they deliberate look at his fucking face look at him did you see his face the jury deliberates for 70 minutes an hour 10 takes about an hour to fill the forms out. 45 minutes.

So not a lot of deliberating going on. One unidentified jury, an unidentified juror was later quoted as saying, quote, there wasn't a lot of discussion as to whether he was guilty or not. I had my mind made up, but it surprised me that most of the other jurors did, too. It surprised me that most everyone here is a closed-minded, prejudging fuck. Isn't that weird? It's almost like it's rural North Carolina or something. Everybody else was like, that face is going to give me nightmares.

That's right. They find him guilty of murder. Jesus Christ. Gu christ guilty 70 minutes dude if i was him and it came back in 70 minutes i'd be like oh awesome they they went in they said there's no fucking evidence how are we going to convict him and they're coming back now there's no way you could talk yourself into that with no evidence i guess there wasn't a lot of evidence to discuss though you believe that guy who said he killed he heard the thing i do all right then that's it all right do you believe the face on that man uh is capable of murder i sure do i'll tell you what now

that's a big one so the sentencing comes around now and And like I said, electric chairs on the table here at the hearing. Another witness testifies that he had this guy. This witness says that he had seen Stockton kill and bury Ronnie Tate in North Carolina in 1979. So this is that guy. This is the. Yeah. in 1979 so this is that guy um this is the yeah so um Stockton claimed that he so then they got to get Stockton up because this never came up before now it comes up in trial at the sentencing so Stockton and he has to come up and testify in his sentencing to rebut this because they're saying he's a he's such a cold-blooded killer he killed somebody else if

you let him out he'll do it again that's the whole thing Stockton claimed that he killed Tate in self-defense so he'd never mentioned he killed this guy before now he's like I did kill that man he's right but I did it in self-defense he's junior from mind hunter going I did it in self-defense. He's junior from Mindhunter going, I did those murders. I did those murders. This is crazy. Yeah, sure, that one too. Why not? What the fuck?

Got more than peanut butter cups. Got another one of those Scotch Mollos. Oh, my God. Yeah, he said that he pulled, Tate pulled a gun on him and threatened to shoot him, so I shot him in the chest just like the man said and i did bury him but it was only in self-defense that's all so but i didn't kill the other guy and i'm a nice man who you shouldn't put in the electric chair anybody got some chocolate and the smooth i gotta go home

he admitted to the killing now, obviously. And, uh, after this too, he even leads police to Ronnie Tate's body after this all comes out. What the fuck? Oh yeah. He's like, yeah,

yeah. He's buried out there. You can find him. I definitely did shoot him and bury him and all that sort of thing here. Um, he, uh, so the prosecutor and his closing is like,

obviously he's a, he's a fucking menace to society here. They said this is one of several examples of the threat he poses to society. They prove that he remains a danger. He'll kill anyone in his path. And that's the way, apparently, that you can get a death sentence there is one of the ways is proving you're a consistent threat for murder in the future. One of the ways is proving you're a consistent threat for murder in the future. The other argument for an execution under Virginia law is that the killing was vile and the murderer did more than was necessary to kill.

So this prosecutor is like, we got it both ways. Like, he's a fucking definitely a menace. And on top of that, he didn't need to do all this shit, cut the hands off and all that, throw him in a ditch. He didn't need to do all this shit, cut the hands off and all that, throw him in a ditch. He said the prosecutor tells the jury that he could meet both thresholds. He said that given Stockton's history, which includes shooting a gun into a store, escaping from a prison road crew, all that sort of shit, it shows he's a threat. The guy, he'll take off, and he does we'll watch out anyone in his way you know he needs to be locked up so he said that the kenny's murder was vile because the victim's hands were cut off and never found he never said where the hands were and they were never found wow so uh kenny's body was found he's decomposed that's how his mother had to see him

blah blah blah so during sentencing during the thing, the jury goes out on it. They have to go out to eat. It's I don't understand why you would let this jury go out to eat during sentencing. You order in food for them. So they go out to eat at the Owl Diner. Okay. This is the day that they're deliberating the sentence. Wow.

They go out there in the middle of deliberations. They break off for a quick diner break uh this is the day that they're deliberating the sentence wow they go out there in the middle of deliberations they break off for a quick diner break okay now the proprietor of the diner uh glenn puckett is his name he owns the joint he approached the jurors and told them we'll get into what he said exactly but at the end of it his whole summary of it was quote they ought to really fry that son of a bitch of course these are jurors that are in current deliberations over the penalty okay so i'm gonna make i'll tell y'all what i'm gonna make for you here's a special menu and you pick anything on it the theme of it is everything's fried everything deep fried that's that's the thing it's all gonna be deep fries whatever you want deep fried deep fried that's right i got a fried salad that you will die for i'm telling it

is delicious you fry up the hush puppies you fry up a tomato boy there's something delicious there i'm telling you what that is something so two groups of the jurors one group of three women and another group of three or four men ate at the owl diner so it wasn't all the jurors which is it's near the courthouse um you know it's a casual diner obviously it's not a fancy black tie place one juror recognized two court deputies as in at a nearby table as j Blackard, who will be subpoenaed later on and was subpoenaed at court to testify. And him and his wife were seated in a booth across the aisle from the male jurors. The Blackards both said that Glenn Puckett, the owner of the Owl Diner,

approached the jurors and inquired whether they'd reached a decision yet. Oh, dick. Hey, you guys decide what you're doing. Not about what you're doing not about what you're ordering about whether you're going to kill this guy or not it's a different thing we did i will have no no no no no or it'd be great if he just came up with his pad and he's like you guys decide yet and they're like we're gonna fry him it's like for lunch actually i meant oh well we're sorry we we're very antsy.

We're ready to get going. We really take our job seriously. It's our constitutional duty and we wanted everybody to know. So did you make a decision? One of the men replied that they all had decided except for, quote, one damned woman that wouldn't decide. One damned woman. Puckett then commented to the jurors that they ought to fry that son of a bitch. And according to the bailiff and his wife there, Puckett remained and conversed with the jurors for several minutes.

Puckett didn't stop this? No, no, no. No, Puckett's the owner of the restaurant talking. No, the court guy. No, he didn't stop this. No, didn't say a fucking word. Let it go on. That's just people being people. The jurors then went back and resumed deliberations after lunch.

They concluded that Stockton was, quote, likely to commit criminal acts of violence that woulduted a continuous serious threat to society and that his conduct was both outrageously wanton and vile horrible and also inhuman and they said you sir may fuck off death in the electric chair they sentencing to that's a tough one how the hell do you sentence that's rough so upset with this system this is he definitely i totally think he did it totally think it but this is not you don't have evidence to do this and you can't have some juror go i think you should fry that son of a bitch if that one goddamn woman will come around you can't have that it makes it look bad police not good their job and citizens do yours and shut the fuck up this is fucking really not great so uh he tells the newspaper dennis stockton does that he's been railroaded calm down it's not that great this is what i mean

like you're all so wrong so you're still you're still a murderer don't get us wrong you definitely we're 99.9 sure you killed kenny ardener We're positive you killed Ronnie Tate because you got up in court under oath and fucking described it and then showed police where you buried the goddamn guy. So you are a murderer. Yeah. Yeah. He said he'd been railroaded. Then he says one of the best things we've ever heard in small town murder from someone

who has been convicted to and has admitted to murder. Yeah. Quote, if Jesus Christ himself would have been the defendant in this case, he would have been convicted up there. I've never seen so much hanky-panky going on anywhere. He said hanky-panky? I've never seen so much hanky-panky going on anywhere. Feels like he doesn't know what hanky-panky going on anywhere feels like he doesn't know what hanky-panky is

no if jesus christ himself had been the defendant in this case they'd have hanky-pankied right in front of him my god i doubt that well the thing was i don't know if maybe jesus would have been up there going i had to shoot him in the chest three times and bury him i had to do it i mean this one i didn't kill but the other, sometimes you got to pull the trigger. You know what I'm... You just know what I'm talking about, right? Hold on. Let me pull my hair back in a ponytail. It keeps falling on my face.

All right. There we go. Next question. Who's got one for me? Let's go. Who's got one for JC? What do you got? Jade dogs answering questions.

Bring it. I don't think that's happening. After this i got a date with aunt b you know what i'm saying i'm gonna get in there come on you know what i'm talking about andy right come on fairly you fucking bum get the fuck out of here taking a ride over to that diner those people are out of your minds. I'm telling you what, right? I'm getting out of this shithole town. See yous later. So he's going to prison. Now, 84, there is a civil case challenging prison conditions, and an inmate testified that he was in jail. And he said he was in jail with one of the witnesses from the Dennis Stockton case. Jail with one of the witnesses from the Dennis Stockton case. And this man said, quote, he did tell me that he lied on Dennis because he said, quote, I hate that son of a bitch.

So I lied about another inmate said the same witness told him that he would, quote, say anything for anybody if the money was right. So why are these people so loose with the fuck up you guys? Oh my God. Now, 1984, there is an escape from death row, which we talked about in our last Virginia episode. This is complete coincidence. But Lem Tuggle, remember Lem Tuggle? Yeah. Lem Tuggle, who escaped with five other inmates from death row.

Right. Stockton was one of the original planners of this. When we talked about there was a couple guys in the original planning who didn't end up going, Dennis Stockton's one of them. This dickhead. Lem Tuggle wasn't even there yet when Stockton started planning this. Wow. This is fucking crazy.

This was, yeah, the one guy. That was the one where they took the uniforms and everything? This was the one they, yeah, they observed how they were often failed to follow procedures when they were coming in from recreation about 8 p.m. One of the prisoners hid in the bathroom next to the entrance of the death row cell block and then charged out and went into the control room, overpowered the officer, released all the locks. They took over the block. overpowered the officer, released all the locks. They took over the block. They got homemade knives, blindfolded all the fucking officers, and got the van and took off.

And took their uniforms and left in the police uniforms, right? Yeah. They put on riot helmets to conceal their faces and carried the TV out of the unit on a stretcher while spraying it with a fire extinguisher. That's right! Yeah. They put all that this is a crazy genius crazy guy you look at the crazy shit happening on that gurney

yep and then tuggle ended up getting busted after robbing a vermont souvenir shop for 80 dollars if we remember correctly uh everybody was ended up ended up being put to death that was caught there actually so there was that now stockton was originally part of that shit he was one of them yes he was the one of the people planning it in the original uh there was an uns they they found uh unsigned notes and a sketch that were sent to authorities by stockton uh here these were ones that he from the beginning stages of the planning he uh he was planning on escaping from the maximum security mecklenburg correctional center but later he decided not to join the attempt he said you know he said that uh he may he wrote a diary from every day he's in

prison and he was sending it to the newspaper talking about it. A search based on his note failed to turn up hidden weapons before the escape. But they did end up finding places to hide hidden weapons that he told them about. So probably pissed off all the prisoners there. Now, in his diary, he kept it ever since his first day on death row, June 20th, 1983. It's five days after he got there. First day on death row, June 20th, 1983. It's five days after he got there. So lengthy excerpts of it were published in the Virginian pilot newspaper in 1984.

He's published. He's published, which always writes a book, too. He's got a whole bunch of shit. He he described and what's described as clear reportorial style. The only mass escape from death row in U.S. history. He's written several as-yet-unpublished books and was the author of a monthly prison newsletter that was sometimes bitter and angry. That sounds like our guy. That's our guy.

He gained notoriety when excerpts of his diary that he wrote went in the newspaper that we talked about from a Norfolk, Virginia newspaper, his writings chronicled drug and alcohol use at the prison and detailed plans for the death row breakout. Like we said, the official said that Stockton's life was in jeopardy because inmates were angry over the diary. Yeah. So what's it? were angry over the diary. Yeah. So, because he's a fucking rat. Yeah,

because he was moved to death row and then he says that they're just getting back at him because of his disclosures. He, he told of long days of what he called heat and tedium, homosexual acts, as he describes the whole thing.

Is that right? In prison? In prison? No. Gee, I would never, never think that in a million years.

Even the law gives you a pass. Extensive drug use and prison guards who, quote, turn their heads. You know, prison, he just described. It also paints a picture of lax conditions at what is touted as the state's most secure prison. I would say don't tout it anymore after six people escaped from death row in the diary he said that 10 inmates were involved in the original escape plot one of them joseph uh gioranta giorantano of norfolk was not in the same side of the death row pod and received his assignment in conversations conducted through vents. So they even were bringing in people who weren't there.

He also describes how he and other inmates smoked weed almost daily and exchanged reefers, as he called it, as Christmas presents and grew marijuana plants in their cells. Get out of here. Get the fuck out of here. That's the easiest thing in the world to see, smell, find. It's not toilet wine. That's a completely different thing.

That needs sunlight. You can't just hide that. It needs sun and water, and you have to do certain shit, and then you can smell it, and then what, are you going to dry the buds and hang them up when you're done? You're in fucking jail. Wow. He said, quote, everybody has been falling down drunk on all that homebrew plus all the dope, is what he wrote about a Christmas. This is the Christmas Day 1983 entry.

Everyone's just falling down from prison wine and weed. He said, quote, the guards are all turning their heads. I got really bored about 4 p.m. Everybody was so messed up i bet i was interrupted a hundred times by different ones today wanting to come in and out and join the party uh i told them i'd have to pass on that home brew but i'll i've smoked reefer continuously all day and night i wish i had a movie camera to make movies of this drunk bunch and show them later. Oh, hell, it is Christmas. Wow.

One of the eight counselors in the institution said that this was, he said, quote, that's a natural occurrence. I guess all inmates are making brew right now. I guess around Christmas, everybody gets their brew going and the guards look the other way. Gotta make the punch, James. Gotta make the punch. They said, although some guards apparently ignored the drug issue, Stockton said that others smuggled marijuana into the inmates. Well, how the fuck else? Yeah, that's how shit gets in prisons.

It's mostly them. That's the number one way, because everything else has to be fit up an ass. This is the only people who can bring it in a non-anal cavity situation. He said one guard identified in the diary as a supplier, Houston Ragsdale Jr., pleaded guilty to a charge of smuggling pot to death row prisoners less than two weeks before the escape. So he wasn't lying about that. They said the drug trafficking stopped briefly in the days after the breakout, but has since resumed. He said that a guard brought him a marijuana cigarette on his dinner tray, tucked between two rolls on July 15th.

That sounds great. You get bread and weed. Fuck. It's not too bad. See, it's a decent run he's having there. I got dinner rolls and weed. That's fantastic. But I also imagine that it wasn't like a gift.

I'm sure that he had to pay for that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But still, you can get it. That's good. Yeah. Besides drugs and escapes, he talked a lot about what he called, quote, homosexual trysts between inmates that were apparently ignored by guards. Apparently ignored by guards. He said, quote, homosexual relationships of some standing occurred among the inmates on death row, leading to quarrels and posing security problems for everybody.

So, yeah, this guy's fight. So he said two of the escapees were lovers, but wouldn't say which two. Oh, is that right? Out of the two of the escape escapees i assumed the two that went together that weren't brothers yeah the ones that yeah the ones that went on there yeah yeah they probably were the guys i would imagine because they went together so that's guess it's all i can think of um so yeah he's did all of this fucking writing uh in here uh then he said that he's looking forward to his date with the executioner he said quote i'm ready to go anytime there's no way you could understand unless you've been through what i've been through so 1985 he wants to die yeah gonna die in 85 he's like it's gonna

happen i'm gonna do it he attempts to drop all his appeals and requested the execution but just hours before he was supposed to die he said okay never mind i'll reinstate my appeals and then they delayed his execution this fucking asshole he went through this big giant public thing of kill me now and then was like never mind no you can put yeah put in my last second appeal and i got a good chance of winning this one so he does in 1987 a judge is going to hear about his death sentence here. This is to hear if the jury was tainted by the guy at the diner. Yeah.

So the diner owner, when asked about it, Puckett says, I don't even know whether I said it. Hell, you know how you say lots of things. I don't know. That's what he said. You know how you say lots of things. You just talk. You know how you just interfere with a jury that's doing their duty. You know how you just do that.

I don't remember what I said to the people that were the jurors of the biggest case in our fucking town's history. I have no idea what I said to them. I talk a lot. I yap a lot. I don't know. Then they said, do you think that he should die, Stockton? And he said, I'm not even going to comment. We know.

You got to come in and get the meatloaf if you want to hear my opinion on that. Otherwise, no. So the trial, they heard the testimony of Mr. and Mrs. Blackard, which is the guard there. He said that they were present and heard everything. Here's how it goes in the examination. They said, tell the judge what you saw and what you heard. And he says they were sitting together and Glenn Puckett, the owner of the diner, came up and was talking to them about the trial. He wanted to know if they reached a verdict in one of them.

I did not know which one. Said all of them decided except for one woman or something to that effect. So they said the only statement they said, yeah, they heard it from the third person, whatever. So they both had the same story, obviously. So there was that. They said that some of the jurors at least were Puckett had talked to and told. It wasn't all of them. It was like six or seven, but it still was a lot.

The testimony was corroborated by some other juror testimony, as well as that of Puckett saying he talked to them. They definitely discussed with Puckett the deliberations and things like that. If you go there and that's what you hear, somebody who isn't real strong in their own thing might go, oh, that's what everybody wants. They're going to be mad at me if i don't do that seems like that's what the town people want you know all of mayberry wants this guy fucking killed so uh the judge says so they put aside his death penalty based on that yeah the judge offers him a choice now here's your choice

chief you can either you're already guilty. It's just sentencing. This was the sentencing. The guilt or innocence. That's done already. He says you can have a choice. Either you take life imprisonment right now or a new sentencing hearing where you can either have life in prison or the death penalty. Those are your options. And he says, you know what? I'm innocent.

I want a new sentencing hearing i'm innocent okay innocent yeah new sentencing hearing is what i want here so he said that he he's done he i'm this is bullshit i'm not taking life in prison because i'm sure i'll get off otherwise so um yeah uh the his attorney said we're obviously very pleased and gratified. This is a favorable result and as favorable as any we could have possibly anticipated. This is terrific. So the prosecutor at first decides he doesn't even know if they're going to refile for that or if they're just going to take the life and do it that way. They don't know how they're going to do it. So they end up getting a new guy in there.

And he says that he's going to seek the the resentencing. He's going to seek the death penalty again. They're trying to get right in there. He said, we're going to pick a date here in the next 30 to 60 days to get in there and get him resentenced. We need to get him on death row real quick here. So he said that I really don't see and I don't believe that their comment in the diner affected the jurors is what the prosecutor said but he understood the justice's position that outside of the courtroom shit could have influenced them he says quote if it takes sequestering a jury that's what we'll do there you go so um stockton here, you know, he said he's going to fight it, though.

He says, so they get out there. They have a letter from 1990, okay, here. This letter here, in keeping with, oh, yeah, this is, okay. They're trying to say Randy Bowman. I had to make sense of this myself. to say randy bowman had to make sense of this myself randy bowman wrote a letter to a prosecutor offering information in exchange for reduced sentence so and there's that's the crux of stockton's case too is that bowman was lying on the stand saying that he overheard, you know, that he was offered the murder case, blah, blah, blah. So they said that this is a prosecutor sends the correspondence to a judge, says I'm writing to disclose information,

which may arguably be viewed as you by you as mitigation evidence. Randy Bowman said a letter sent a letter to Jake Gregory. Randy Bowman sent a letter to Jay Gregory, that's that investigator, remember, on March 2nd, 1983, in which he wrote that he would not come to court unless he could get the remaining six or seven months of his sentence curtailed. So he says, as you can see from the enclosed copy, Bowman did not write that he had been promised the sentence reduction. Actually, he closes the letter by writing that if Gregory will call Raleigh, he's gregory can work something out i'm not i was not aware of any of the promises because he got on the stand and they said have you been promised anything for your testimony when he said no he said no because he hadn't been promised it yet that's what they do they bring him in there they know what the deal is but they can't they can't make a deal with him till after the sentencing this happens all over the country all the time and that way that person go i have no deal with anything and

as soon as the trial's over they have a deal it's common and it's it's it's kind of a fucked up tactic honestly but uh here was what the letter said from bowman hi mr gregory i'm writing to let you know that i'm not going to court unless you can get this six or seven months I've got left cut off where I don't have to come back to prison. I've got a bunch of problems, but I can't tell you about them now. Why not? Let's hear them. I want to hear them. You're asking for a big thing.

Let's find out why. I don't have to tell you how serious, by the way-e-a-r-i-o-u-s serious that's how the man's called it serious serious about that i'll probably and it's probably not probably just probably yeah probably yeah uh get killed over this anyway and i think i deserve to get out of prison before i do mr gregory if you'll call rally and explain to them how serious again spelled wrong yeah that's just how he thinks it's spelled this thing is i'm sure you can he's got the best he's doing great he's killing it he's got the great lawyer who wrote him out a wonderful letter and said we're gonna make it seem like it's from you yeah we're misspelled serious then they'll never

know so he is uh this comes up there's closing arguments here defense attorney says that dennis stockton who killed ardner and the dennis stockton who's they're different people that 1978 ardner and 1990 ardner this guy's a model prisoner he's a model prisoner he found religion so it's good now he said he found religion and he's worked very hard on his own rehabilitation he's not the same person he doesn't do drugs he doesn't drink he doesn't kill he doesn't do anything he is because he's on death row there isn't really an opportunity but he said that dennis stockton is as capable of repentance and is entitled to forgiveness as any man that's that sounds like church stuff there yeah um i don't know if that has a place in a court of law you can have forgiveness from a higher power but society we got rules and shit yeah by

the way this this when we say like death penalty, like you need to have this and this and that this falls under none of those parameters of like you need certain ways of proof. Not a lot of proof here to do this with. But still, he also Patrick County Commonwealth attorney Anthony Giorno. He said the evidence shows the dual personality of Stockton. Yeah. He says, quote, is he a changed man? I don't think so. I think he just knows how to live the prison system. And there is no prison in the country escape proof. What possible chance did he give Kenny Ardner? The only option, the right option, is to sentence this man to death. Now, at the hearing, he is, by the way, wearing shackles because he's considered an escape risk at the hearing because he tries to do that a couple of times.

And look at his fucking face. After lunch, he exploded in anger, shouting complaints at the city jail and requests to fire his attorney at the judge. They said that he lashed out. They said that he lashed out. Judge Frank Richardson refused to release the attorneys and sent Stockton back to a holding cell where he began banging on the bars. Given a second chance to sit in on the court proceedings, Stockton cursed the judge and called him a crook, which is what you want to do when a guy's about to have your life in his fucking hand. He says that he wants to represent himself. Of course he does.

Because his lawyers are not looking after his best interests. He says, quote, I move, this is to the judge, I move for you to remove yourself, you, you, you biased son of a bitch. He said that to the judge. He called him a biased son of a bitch in his own courtroom awesome then said now let me off now what now what now take me to jail like henry hill and goodfellas he might as well have said so the guy went to middle school with did that shit too he he called the judge a fraud to his face yeah that's not really that smart life without yeah that's what'll happen a lot of the times they you know it's like oh really uh that is a human being who can then

oh how about this fuck yourself how's that guess what i just did don't piss off a judge right or wrong they have a lot of power imagine if you cut someone off in traffic gave them the finger and they had the power to sentence you to death for that like think about that would you be nicer in traffic if someone you gave the finger to can bang a gavel and send you to the electric chair fuck that there'd be a lot of kind waves and smiles and traffic if that was a goddamn case so uh he is sentenced you sir get the fuck back to death row with you the judge not surprisingly puts him back on death row here um now wilma this whole time has been waiting wilma arden urban back and forth he's gonna be killed no he's not yes he is no he's not she she says

quote I think Dennis is guilty he may not have pulled the trigger he may not have been the only one involved but that doesn't make him less guilty the first time I saw him after Kenny was killed you could see the guilt it was like he couldn't hardly stand to look us in the face. Yeah. So, by the way, Randy Bowman, he recants his testimony as well at this point, saying he didn't actually hear the whole hit being put together anymore. Bowman recants that he told a newspaper, not in court, in a newspaper. He told them that he never heard the money for hire deal. told them that he never heard the money for hire deal. But the Virginia Attorney General's office later filed an affidavit in court in which he claimed he never recanted,

and the newspaper took him out of context or incorrectly or whatever the fuck. So Wilma, the mother, wanted to talk to Bowman and find out what the fuck was really going on, because she doesn't care about legal shit. She wants to know who killed my kid. That's it. Don't care, legally. Who's breaking the hands off my fucking angels there you go she says exactly who's the fucking angel handbreaker yeah i talked to bowman before he testified against dennis he was scared to death not of stockton but of tommy mcbride

she said i don't think randy bowman was. What he said in court, that was right after it happened. What he said this April, that was 12 years later. There's a lot of things I don't remember that far back. You can't remember everything. Yeah. Especially when you're doing a lot of drugs. She says, even with certainty of his guilt, Stockton's guilt, she feels no satisfaction that he'll be executed. She's like, that doesn't help me any.

She has no sense of vindication. She said, not now, not then, not in the future's like that doesn't help me any there's no sense of vindication she said not now not then not in the future it just doesn't help any that doesn't my my kid which is how i feel you know my great-grandmother got killed and brutally fucking murdered tied up and throat cut in the whole deal there's no no fixing there then what we have oh well let's really let's sit here and let's now go to court every day for six months and say how much you want this person in jail for what or get her killed for what you know what i mean that's our our part of this is gone now this is between you and the state now i don't really care anymore you know what i'm saying i'm sad over here i don't need i don't know unless you want revenge then it's a different story so which is understandable i am italian i get it so he uh she said that uh um yeah she can't remember everything so she said that quote i don't even know if i will go to the

execution she said uh my sister said she would love to go but for me i don't know at one time it wouldn't have bothered me to stand dennis up against a pole and shoot him as full of holes as a sifter. Jesus Christ. She thought about that shit. That's a lot of holes. You could put water through it. But I don't feel that way now. She said, now it's only a sense of exhaustion. She's just sad.

That's all. She said, I wish Dennis could have been something else. He was so well-mannered, is what she said. He had such a nice voice on the telephone. How could he be a killer? Such a nice voice on the telephone how could he be a killer such a nice voice on the telephone how could he possibly be a killer she said i just feel so sad about his being so intelligent and turning to crime it's a waste a waste of an intelligent person and a waste of life she's a very kind woman this wilma she's a very i feel terrible for her so he stopped his appeals and convinced a judge to set an execution date. He says he wants to be put to death immediately.

He said, quote, I'm ready to go anytime. He's doing any time. Bullshit. Yep. He said because. Yeah. He said it was great. He said it's because of a million little things.

There's no way you could understand unless you've been through what I've been through since 1985. He says he has severely limited access to books, showers, recreation, and ventilation. He says he spends nearly all of his day in a small, poorly maintained cell without a fan to cool him on hot summer days. day in a small, poorly maintained cell without a fan to cool him on hot summer days. He says he believes corrections officials are trying to get revenge for the newspaper publication of the infamous diary in which he detailed everything that we talked about. He said Mecklenburg was a luxury compared to this. They spend more time out of their cells in one day than I do in a month. They can see movies.

They can keep themselves clean. He said that he was different, all these different. He spent time in these different buildings, and then now he's ready to go. He said, good gosh, that would be a long time for anyone to be confined to a cell. It's not the sort of place to be for a long period of time because he's been like 14 months straight in a cell. He said one of his biggest complaints is the lack of a fan, though. the cell he said one of his biggest complaints is the lack of a fan though he says the nearest window is about 25 feet away and his hair and prison jumpsuit are constantly saturated with sweat because of the heat oh sweat me a river it's a hot shit down there um they said that their

prison officials said in response they're considering letting him have a fan outside it is a little stuffy in here. He said, they said Stockton can get books from the prison library by filling out a form. So I don't know what the fuck he's talking about there. He says that he did not kill Ardner now. Now he's saying he didn't do it at all. Now he's completely innocent. Yeah, he said, I didn't kill Kenny Ardner.

I ain't even ever told nobody I did it either. I ain't even ever told no one I did it neither. He said that at least one witness who testified against him made a deal with the prosecution. They asked him, you know, what would he do if he resumed his appeals? And he said, I'd never be moved from Mecklenburg. I probably wouldn't have stopped my appeals if I wouldn't have moved there. But now I can't see getting any privileges. They don't want me to change my mind. There's a giant thing of clemency, a giant clemency document, by the way,

that he writes. He writes a whole book about this whole shit. But there's a clemency document that says it's all Bowman. OK, all Bowman here. They said Bowman, who was the critical prosecution witness, has now admitted he lied on the stand when he testified. I'll go through this very it's long. I'm not going to go through all of it. But Bowman's credibility at trial was protected by an unscrupulous prosecutor who illegally withheld evidence that Bowman got a deal in exchange for his testimony, as well as other evidence helpful to Mr. Stockton. But the under the undisclosed deal was not the only reason Bowman lied on the stand. We now

know the other reason. Bowman was the real killer. This is a new theory. Two witnesses swear that Bowman admitted that he, in fact, killed Mr. Ardner. Bowman confessed to the murder to his then-wife at the time

he committed the murder. Then again, just last winter to a friend. Other evidence corroborates these witnesses. Bowman, a convicted felon and an extremely violent man, has already admitted three times under oath that the offer to kill Mr. Ardner was first made to him. Bowman, not Mr. Stockton. Bowman, not Stockton, possessed a machete at the time of the murder that was capable of causing the severe wounds inflicted on his body. You can get a knife or a fucking machete. That's not in farmland.

You can find an implement that's sharp that you can cut something with. Look in your shed. Bowman's own son, who Bowman sought to corrupt by including him on his frequent criminal jaunts, swears that Bowman admitted that he had killed more than one person. By contrast, the evidence against Mr. Stockton was meager, even putting aside the gross misconduct by the prosecutor. No physical eyewitness or direct evidence has ever connected Stockton to Ardenner's death or murder scene. Well, I mean, I think it's a clear case of, you know, open and shut here. Dennis Stockton's trial is a travesty. In this case where the Commonwealth sought the death penalty,

the prosecutor intentionally failed to turn over evidence that would have proven conclusively that the real killer is obviously Randy Bowman. Yeah. Obviously. So then he goes at the end, there obviously Randy Bowman. Yeah. Obviously. So then he goes, at the end, there's a whole thing, no physical or direct evidence connected to Mr. Stockton's been found. No eyewitness has ever connected Mr. Stockton with either the murder or the alleged scene. Well, that's also because Stockton admittedly killed the guy who was there.

He literally said that. I did that. He testified in court to that. No evidence connected Stockton with any murder weapon. No evidence has ever been produced. And the person who hired Stockton to kill Ardner has never been tried for the hiring. Four years after the crime, Randy Bowman,

a convicted felon, sought out and volunteered a statement to police that said the whole thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's how it goes. Now, there's a lot more, too. It's so fucking long, dude. I can't imagine. It's like 50 fucking pages of shit.

It's pretty goddamn interesting, too, honestly. There's a bunch of legal shit. Anyway, so 1995, this is all happening in. Despite the governors are arguing over who's going to kill him uh but he remains in virginia on their death row uh now he said that he's not going to challenge the execution but then i then tries to challenge it at the last second again goes to the u.s supreme court who

voted eight to zero to deny the clemency. Okay. And to deny his claims. And there's that. So then they go to Governor George Allen, who then denies their clemency plea as well. So Wilma, the mom, said Stockton's execution won't erase the pain. She said, I don't think I'll ever get over Kenny being killed. She lives with her daughter and crafts antique chairs out of clothespins.

What? I don't know how that works. Sometimes crafting antique chairs out of clothespins. So, like, what? How do you? What? I don't know. Does she just, like, whittle, like, little tiny?

Does she clip them all together in the shape of a big chair? You can't sit in that. They'll fall right apart. Or does she take, like, a clothespin? Are they a big chair you can't sit in that they'll fall right apart are they the big clothes pins even are they big a doll i am really good this is the most confusing thing about this whole case how big of a clothespin is that how are you doing this multiple clothespins i'm picturing them all together i don't know she said the whole mystery of my why my Henney was killed will never be answered. Nothing will ever be the same. So in September of 1985, or 1995, the 27th, it is time for its execution day here.

Oh, boy. What do we have? Yes. Light blue short-sleeved shirt, dark blue trousers, rubber shower shoes, and white socks here. That's where they're taking them in. Last meal. Yes, sir. Grilled cheese.

Not bad. That's not a bad choice. And what? That's it. Just grilled cheese sandwich. That's all you want. A glass of water? I guess so.

I didn't get a drink out of this thing. Not even tomato soup? How would you not put a tomato soup to dip it that's the best part with it grilled cheese is a solid choice if it doesn't sound like a lot but it's got cheese it's got that bread it's fried it's very comforting simple yeah simple but you need the problem is when you're done with the grilled cheese you want another grilled cheese immediately so you'd have to get like four grilled cheeses. I'm not sure the amount of grilled cheeses. I assume a bunch.

I think two is the most I got. Grilled cheese? Yeah. I could throw down a bunch of grilled cheeses. I'm sure I could, but by the time I get down the second one, I'm like, yeah, that's enough. Two is what I'll make. Yeah. Just because I don't have a toaster that fits more than four.

But one is not enough. Well, not that I'll toast a grilled cheese, but you know what I mean. That's how you think of it. You think of four. Plus, even in a frying pan, it doesn't fit. That takes a lot of fucking work to make more than two. Yeah, yeah. It's too much.

Yeah. Two is tops, and then a bowl of soup, and that's what you got. And if I make them for my kids, by the time I get done making the second one, I'm already grilled cheesed out. I don't want to make another. Yeah. I'm not going to make another. Yeah, I'm not going back for more. No, there's a dirty frying pan in the sink now.

And they gradually get worse in quality as I make them. Yeah, I'm not going to care anymore here. By the end, the last one's barely toasted. So, he asked the guard to remove his glasses while he strapped on to the gurney. He's getting his lethal injection yeah no death but no uh electric chair they already got rid of it here um so he

just you know laid there um and he uh he is the 300th person put to death in the united states since capital punishment was reinstated 300 he got 300. He got himself a milestone. Number 300. Nice round number here. So there's that. He is dead. And that, everybody, is Mayberry all fucked up. That is, the cops are fifing it hard. The town's a mess.

Everyone's on goddamn drugs. It's a mess in this town. The one honest about the andy griffith show is that they are not clean at closing a case no terrible about it good job andy griffith for making it the guy in there the drunk he's not actually a drunk he's actually a murderer he's been there for years they just haven't put together the case yet against him they're like it's taking an extra little while let's get him like a fifth of something and keep him occupied every time he goes to the jail it's not because he's drunk it's because he just murdered someone and he feels bad about it that's all it is that's it so that everybody

mount airy north carolina the crazy story of kenny ardner and dennis stockton and randy bowman and tom and mcbride and the whole deal it's a a mess. I don't know who killed Ardner. No clue. But he certainly deserved the death penalty for killing the guy. He was clearly involved in Ardner one way or another, whether he gave somebody a ride or not. And then he killed the guy for sure that was also there with him. Yeah. That's my only thing is I think he killed Ardner because otherwise he has no reason to kill Tate.

Exactly. That's the only reason why I'm pretty positive he did it otherwise i'd have no clue but to go out of your way that yeah that far to cover it up you probably did it you know unless you just don't want tate to if you don't want to be uh implicated in a crime you didn't commit but you were a part of you know what i mean that's true maybe he thinks tate did maybe tate did it and then he was trying to who knows but either way did it with all with all three of them in the fucking car that's what i mean who the hell knows uh either way that was like 20 it's been over for about 27 years now with the with the death so i guess that's that fuck it uh moving on yeah review the show if you want please do that

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from Small Town Murder, Crime and Sports. This year, or this year, this week, you're going to get a year in sports crime for Crime and Sports. We're going to go over 1995 arrest by arrest. It's fucking hilarious to hear the amount of disaster that 1995 was for athletes getting arrested. And then for small town murders, one of our most requested and people I've heard somebody go. I thought I've heard enough about this.

I don't want to hear this. But then I listen and it's the funniest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Jean-Bernard Ramsey case. Yes, I know. Weird that it's really funny. But I'm telling you, when you look at it, the investigation, not the murder, the investigation, the way we looked at it, you look at that ransom note. There's a dead child.

Everything else is fodder. It's ridiculous, and it's asinine. And I think you might, might honestly a lot of people said i never thought about it like that i changed my opinion yeah we find the little things ted bundy sucks scott peterson's fucking bitten and put away pizza little things and we we know what we're doing here so check that out patreon.com slash crime and sports do that today and you'll also get a shout out from uh jimmy here where he will mispronounce your name while trying his best to pronounce it properly.

He will also follow us on social media at murder small on Twitter and small town pod on Facebook at small town murder on Instagram. That said, Jimmy, damn it. Hit me with the name of the list of people who would never, ever send me to the electric chair just because a diner owner told me to. Told them to. That's what I meant to say. Hit me with that list right now. This week's executive producers are Bryant Rivera-Rumbo, Jordan Bennett, Carol Braun.

It's really – Carol Braun and Jordan have been doing this for – Thank you. Thank you. Years. And I can't thank you guys enough for being so amazing to us. Thank you. You're darling. Truly.

Lisa Fong donated in honor of all spunky Italian grandmas everywhere, including yours and hers. Thank you. We appreciate that. Carmel Puttyfoot, Dizzy O'Rourke and Chantella McKay. Thank you guys. Yeah. Immensely. Fucking endlessly. Truly. Yeah, immensely. Fucking endlessly, truly.

For your support. And the amount of people that donated this week based on just because you love grandmothers. That was nice of you. I honestly bleary eyes through tears a couple of names just because the donation was so sweet. So thank you guys, truly. There was a lot of sweet ones. Other producers this week also, Fraser Henderson in Scotland.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Grace M., she had a near full ride through college and landed a dream job. Congratulations, Grace. Hey, congrats. You're the one, huh? The smart and talented.

Congrats on all your, well, no, full ride. There's no debt involved in that. No, you're rolling, man. Good work. Good job. Smart and talented Victoria and Charlotte Payne, thank you very much. Thank you. Corporal Carl Kirshner, Zoe Bird, James Marder, Booger Johnson Jr., On Young. On Young, I believe that's Onion.

That's On Young is Korean for hello. It's an arrest and development joke. Okay. I've got to watch more of that goddamn show. It's a great show. It's fucking amazing. I've seen it all more of that goddamn show. It's a great show. It's fucking amazing. I've seen it all the way through and don't remember a goddamn joke, except for there's always money in a banana stand.

There's always money in T-Bone. He's a flamer. Go on. Do you remember that? All right. Peyton Meadows, Ashton Perkins, Anita Dick. That's a reference from Letter Kenny. Jimmy and the Whipped Creams, I guess.

Larry Butterfast, you bastard. Happy birthday, Jenny Lee Banman. Banman? Your country friends love you, you slut. I was told to say it. It's not us. It's not how I would talk to you. I apologize.

Much nicer. Adam Nuth won the CIS and STM Fantasy Football League. Congratulations. Maddie Cakes, Mike Papa, and Maggie Quackenbush helped out with that. Bridget O'Shaughnessy, she donated both ways. Thank you so much. O'Shaughnessy? That's the name.

Yeah, there you go. O'Shaughnessy. O'Shaughnessy. I'm like, O'Shaughnessy. That's how I would sing it. Yeah. Wilson Wilson, Evan Havorka. Happy Hour was in Hookset, New Hampshire.

I don't know if you know, James, but Hookset is the only Hookset in the country. Dr. Myron Schmuckstein, Andre from Moldova, and his brother-in-law, Charlie, James. That's 90 Day Fiancé, right? There you go. Charles Emerson Winchester III. That is MASH. MASH, right. Caitlin Smith, Janice Hill, Mara Fechner, Frank the South African Birdwatcher, also Frank the South African Birdwatcher Whore.

Oh, good. No less. Katya Jerkenoff, if you're proud of yourself for that one. Very nice. Rebecca Flowers, Maureen Moran. Donate for us to donate to pup shelters. Thank you, Maureen. We will do that.

Definitely. Jason Forrest, Mandy and Hilton Head, Jean Leon Magnato. Magnata. I think it's Magnato. Happy birthday, Justine McNeil and her son, Boston. Happy birthday. He gave his parents poems for Christmas. Well played, sir.

Nice job. Good work. That's the way you come up. Rue's Remakers. Romakers? Remakers. Remakers. Tiffany Cook.

I don't know. I'll never get it right. Trey Volk in our sent us. Do money for a Caron Butler. Perfect. Josie McGregor and Jill. Thank you both. Claire Jones.

Ralph Furley. Alexander Welch. Morgan McLeod, Thomas Smith. Hang in there, Tom. Yeah. It will get better, I promise. He got laid off and then he's going through a spat. He's a great dude in fucking England. Thomas, we appreciate you.

You've all been there. Rachel Taylor, S.J. Surridge, Diana Anzarina-Bautista, Cassie Harlow, Reagan Shalkley, Plum Creek Farm, Michelle Kerr, Spalding Small Snicker Bar. I think that's the Snickers bar that was in the pool in Caddyshack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. I think so. Catherine Fokcher.

Fokker. Jesus. Richard. I hardly know her. Richard Schamel. Jen with no last name. Carly Hubschman. Jake8429, not the other ones, Sarah the Queen, Sarah Mitchell, Zach Hines, Ashlyn Wolfe, Heather Hall, Wolfe, not Wolfe, McKinley with no last name, Dave Kraft, Vera Asplind, Asplind, Grant Vipond,ary Smith Andrew Deuce Regina Abigail Adams

Sam Powell, Joe Fitzpatrick Gregory Smith, Adam Grumprich Jessica with no last name Nick Howard, Tiffany Mendoza Horse that goes quack Natalie Goltz, Christian Gray Rosamund Iden Casey Lincoln Eerie Webs Natalie Goltz. Christian Gray. Probably not that one. Rosamund Iden.

Idon. Casey Lincoln. Erie Webs. Liz with no last name. Janine Wachter. Wachter. Wachter. Francisco Medrano.

Sean Hopkins. What? Is that right? Michael Ray Duncan Jr. Oh, it's John Hopkins. That's where I was. That sounds familiar. Mallory Harding.

Riley McCaffrey. My brain goes in a lot of directions, James. Emma Calder. It's very lost. Maggie M. Sarah with no last name. Melissa Jensen. Princess Weeks.

Caleb Fessel. Jimmy Floyd. William Edwards. Jen Rizzo. Shelby Epic. Epic. A pitch. James Laco.

Lico. Cop Lauren. What? That can't be right. Jeff Cavanaugh. Matt Bilski. Haley Steinhelber. Matthew.

Nope, that's Mike. Naughton. Haley Pettit. Lissa with no last name. Joseph Pittman. Carla T. Sylvia Ashley Arnold. Lisa Alexander.

Ashley Bertram. Andrew Webb. Cynthia Pocan. Jill Basarge. Bos, Julia, Julia Lumio, Samantha Cross, Madeline Wynn, Dana, Dana, Danae Littlefield, Rachel Boyers, Emily Sophia, Tiffany Mangabat, Alex Boe, Amy Kazier, Dean Kerrigan, Tyler Bourgeois, Taryn Dark187, Joe Colaccio, Eileen Castle, Jess Miller, Kelsey Hansen, Morgan Reichenbach, Cassandra Folley, Sarah Marquez, Stephen Thomas, Ashley McClain, Alicia Bodley, Jeff and Megan Perry. Oh, they're in fucking Idaho. Love you both. Sierra Watterson, Andrea Strapulos, Reese Martinez, Alexa with no last name, Josh Kopperman, Cooperman, Jennifer Lowe, Alyssa Zach, Jamie Holes, Marie Rucker, Azra Kennedy, Christy Lee Hoare.

That's real. Halston Reed, Zach Onion, Josie DiBiase. I fucking hope so. Sandy with no last name. Tony P. Michael with no last name. Amy Rhodes. Xander.

Xander Avery. Amanda Hurt. Matthew Schreck. Chuck Martin. Carly Baumgartner, Heather Weir, Christine Mann, Chris Collier, Tanner Terry, Lottie Ridgers, Elizabeth Alcott, Laura Anderson, Megan Jackson, Jude Bordelon, Kelly Whitting, Whitting, Whitting, Whittingen? Fuck! That one broke me. Richard Brockman, Sean Stimpert, Doyle Massey, Jennifer Lowe,

Jay Rad, Stephanie Vought, Evan with no last name, Yifan Zhang, Bryant Tito Rivera, Rivera, Lawful G, David Willingham, Chris Parker, Glenn Prosser, Aaron Roberts, B. Sizzle, Seth Sampson, Kyle James, Catherine Case, Leah Heger, Candace Madden, Jennifer Beatles, Raina Kibler, Greg Paquette, Brooke Affail.

She fails a lot, apparently. Oh, no. Poor Brooke. Brooke. Me too. Fuck off, Brooke. You can do it. Brooke, you fuck off. You can do it, Brooke. Don't fuck it up, Brooke. You can do it. Terrell. Brooke, you fuck. You can do it, Brooke.

Don't fuck it up, Brooke. Terrell with no last name. Jasmine Karenin. Victoria with no last name. Haley Pearson Cox. Tim Bailey. Heather Lawson. Dee Nice.

Christopher Swanson. Rachel Krumenauer. Chad Monroe. Misty McLaughlin. Sam Myers. John Sardo. Corby Swenson. Perla Richardson.

Jennifer Shope, Shopee, Keely Powell, Natasha Woodruff, Dionne Stanley, Tyler Ray Hawkins, Julia Galazaka, Michelle Sanderson, Carmen Hawes, Jackie Brown, Laura with no last name, Allison Napier, Amy Nix, Nicole with no last name, Adam Zach, Doug McCoon, Dr. Sarah Witte, Gigi with no last name, Melinda Galladay, Jessica Richter, Sarah McCold, Sophie Johnson, Amy with no last name, Greg Faluna, Michael Duncan, Katie Wicca, Desiree Wurlinger, Jan Roth, Donna Cheresis, Pinky Lane, Cecilia Salguero, Brandon Harris, Terry Davids, Lucas Phillips, Marathon Running Catholic Mom of Seven, Sack, what is this, Squanta, Squanta Chip, Squanta, what, Sack, Squanta Chipopimus? I really hope that's what it is. I think that's what it is. I think that's what it is. Carrie Reese, Hannah McAfee, Amanda Nock, Luigi with no last name, Cameron Sophies,

Brendan Borky, Mama J, Jason M, Denise Hogue, Finley Todd, Carol with no last name, Kyle Urick, Urick, Urick, Lori Howell, Michael Matthew, Hein, Lisa Cunliffe. What? I don't know. Nope. I'm moving on. Maggie Rodabaugh, Steve Robertson, Ariana Castillo, Evan Gallagher, Michael Roosh, Roosh, Roosh, Rush, Sheila Case, Fraser Henderson, the Maury Dennis Farina.

Dennis Farina. The Maury one, though. Farina. Dennis Farina. Isn't that a fucking actor? He's an actor. He's been an actor for 40 years. He was on Law and Order for a while.

Dead as fuck. He's amazing. The Maury one. That's the one. Rachel Darby, Tiffany A., Sarah Amador, Michelle Meener, Sarah Goldfarb, Luke with no last name, Natalia Villarreal, Grace Ashforth, David Murphy, Zach Gallardo, Riley with no last name, Bixby B, John Williams, Jennifer McVettel, Richard Lamoureux, Jorge Martinez, Sam Yuljus, Haley Worsinski, Craig Fenella, Nora Welsh, Gretchen Schneider, Fred Schumacher, Emily Anderson, Louise Climott, Kristen Age, I think. Quinny and Sean.

Casey with no last name. Michael Morris. Ian Larch. Emily Williams. Cameron Gilmore. Myrus Petragallo. Myrus? Do you know a Myrus?

I do not. Well. I have no clue. Maybe they're stealing. Are you stealing my name? What an unfortunate name. No shit. Sean Moore.

Sidney with no last name. Tony with no last name. Sunshine's Andy Andianas. Nicole Woodcock. Boy, oh boy. no shit sean moore sydney with no last name tony with no last name sunshines and andy andy on us uh nicole woodcock boy oh boy brandon wellis uh jack teffery joseph petri petri uh heart sick design alex stevens steffens v with no last name cody woodkey clint stocks uh rebecca rough Clint Stocks, Rebecca Rockliff, fuck, Thomas Serrano, Jeremy Miller, Joe Ruggielario, I'm so sorry, Mary Kidd, Melissa DeSotles, Andy Wilburn, Leah Burgess, Tara Dactyl, Lexi Bryant, Tracy Graves, Mandy Porter, Nicole Lucille, Trevor Succo, Ben Churchill, and every last patron. Thank you guys so much for everything you do.

Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Honestly, that was incredible. Thank you for it all. And we can't thank you enough, man. We can't. We're humble and we're blown away by that shit.

So thank you. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank for making it you're a part of it possible to heal james because we can get him to a doctor absolutely all of this stuff is because of you guys thank you thank you no you guys are the best we we can't thank you enough for changing our lives and and being a part of this and uh keep being a part of it tell all your friends if you want to find, who gives a shit? Just look up Small Town Murder Podcast. You can find us on social media that way.

We're the hosts. There's only two of us and there's only one show called that. We won't bet. Find us and do it. No. And keep coming back week after week. Tell everybody you know. Keep coming back.

Spread it around. Cough us in somebody's face. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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