Small Town Murder - #261 - Scrap Metal & Sexual Urges - Bantam, Connecticut

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

This week, in Bantam, Connecticut, a horribly brutal & bloody scene reminds everyone of a very similar murder, a couple years earlier, and everyone worries that a serial killer is on the prowl. The newest terrible killing is brutal in its completeness, and has few leads, other than a man, who was helping sell off scrap metal, while drinking beer, from 7 in the morning, to the end of the day. Some people think this it's a terrible mistake, but most think that a disturbed & vicious murderer has been caught. Incompetence in the investigation, heartless brutality, and crazy court proceedings make this a truly insane story!! Along the way, we find out that you can be a falconer, that DNA would have saved us all a lot of trouble in the 1970s, and that just because you breathe through a hole in your throat, doesn't mean you cant be a cold blooded killer!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Bantam, Connecticut, a terrible slaying in a woman's own home immediately brings comparisons to an earlier similar murder. And the question is, do we have a serial killer

on our hands? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed. Squeaky yay indeed. Whatever that noise that was. Squeaky yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Wow, that was, I don't know, that thing escaped from you. I don't know what happened there. Thank you for joining us.

We do appreciate it. If it's your first time, welcome. If it's not your first time, thank you for coming back and seeing us again. We have a wild, crazy thing in front of you today. Just a wild case of murder. Before we get to that, very quickly, just want to say, first of all, reviews help. So thank you. Whatever platform you're listening on, give a review.

It helps a lot. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. What's there? Well, first of all, all your merchandise, everything like that. Second of all, you're going to get info on crime and sports. If you don't listen to crime and sports, check this week's out because it's an epic insanity thing. And it's an Italian guy, so I have a lot of fun. You'll enjoy it.

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that so thank you for uh all everybody a blast we cannot wait for that so thank you for uh everybody a lot of people bought tickets already so thank you for doing that awesome everybody else get your tickets and do it up because we are gonna have a damn ball patreon this week is awesome as well we have good stuff the one i'm very excited for patreon.com slash crime in sports and for five dollars or above you're going to get access to everything the whole back catalog crime and sports and small town murders bonus episodes everything you're going to love

it so check it out this week we have for crime and sports which you'll get access to we have an imposter story I love an imposter story yeah we do great things with an imposter story and this one is particularly unique because it's a guy who was a college football player of no great acclaim, done with college for a couple years, changes his whole identity, re-enrolls as a freshman, pretends he's 18 and plays football again. And surprisingly, now he's really good because he's 24.

They're all 18. He needs that acclaim, James. It's amazing, the story. It's in Texasas so all sorts of texas football mixed in a downfall of a program good stuff check it all out then for small town murder this one i'm so excited about oh my goodness we are going to go back to deadwood south dakota which is a wild prospect gold prospecting town where wild bill hickok was killed there so i mean that tells you a lot.

And if you've seen the show Deadwood on HBO, a lot of it's historically kind of accurate. A lot of the people existed. We're going to go back and read. I found the newspaper like in the show, the guy that runs the newspaper. Well, his actual newspaper, I found all the archives. So we're going to go back and find out what kind of wild, crazy shit was going on in Deadwood in a crazy Old West mining camp back in the day. That was real. Yeah.

It's going to be awesome. I cannot wait. There's murders in the street and people die in a weird stuff. It's so crazy. So check that out. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that stuff. And you're going to get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while trying to get it correct.

And if you just want the shout-out and great karma, go over to PayPal. Use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com, and you can get all of that as well right there. Quick disclaimer, it's a comedy show. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. The stories are real. There's no made-up, hey, I was walking down the street the other day and a lady got killed.

That's not what happens here. This is a real story. We take it seriously. All the research is real. But there's also jokes. And I get it. It's dark. Yeah, that is dark.

But what helps is there's a lot to make fun of. Murderers a lot of times are idiots. there's a lot to make fun of. Murderers a lot of times are idiots. And the choice to do this and the fact that I think I can get away with it if I do it this way can be hilarious. Bumbling police forces.

What we don't do, we go out of our way not to do. We do not. We do not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why? Because we're assholes. Yes.

But we're not scumbags. There's the deal. That's how it works. So if that sounds good to you, we are going to have a great time hearing about a wild story. If not, if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, ever go together, maybe we're not for you. Who knows? It's possible.

Don't complain later. Either way. But it might not be what you think, so give us a shot here. That said, I think it's time to sit back, clear the lungs, Jimmy. Oh, boy. Shout. Shut up up and give me murder let's do this let's go on a trip shall we so ridiculous let's do it let's do it uh we are coming from indiana last week or god our last few have been what a place pretty crazy and this is no

different here and we'll buzz through the town stuff. We're going to Connecticut this week, though. Look at us. Going to get fancy, going to Connecticut. Lootin' ass sons of bitches. Oh, yeah. Next couple weeks, we're going to be in such different places as Hawaii and Delaware. So very different.

So in Connecticut, this is Bantam, Connecticut. B-A-N-T-A-M. It's actually a town that's within kind of a little bit bigger of a town. It's kind of a township in a little town, a borough, they call it, in a bigger town. Is it Bantam Wood? I think it is, yeah. And a weight, Bantam weight. I guess it means you're light.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for a boxer. So it's in Litchfield is the town that this town is in. And Litchfield only has about 8,000 people anyway. So this is all very small here this town is in, and Litchfield only has about 8,000 people anyway, so it's all very small here. This is in northwestern Connecticut. It's about an hour and five to New Haven, Connecticut, which is over there. About 45 minutes down to Danbury, which is where the mall is, and the ex-mayor who really likes our shows also is there.

He's not a mayor anymore. I don't think so. And then it's about an hour and 30 to Stafford, which is our last Connecticut episode, episode 219, Bone Fragments and Trash Trailers, which you know from that title. It was good stuff. It's in Litchfield County. Area code is 860. The motto here is Unitas Sub Ligi, guess it's latin latin for united we stand unity under the law i was close the law says we are one damn it and if that's it i don't care if

you don't like your neighbors unified up to the extent of the law outside of that you all can go fuck yourselves or the other translated kind of more down-to-earth version of that is, quote, we're a town whether you like it or not. That's that. No running. Because the law says so. Law says so. So all the censuses are separated. That's the only reason why Bantam is its own little township.

And Bantam is the least populous borough in connecticut so it's very small these boroughs in connecticut the way they do into you know towns here um the were uh several american revolutionary people were held prisoner in this town including benjamin franklin's son and uh david matthews who was the mayor of New York City at the time. And an unbelievably mediocre band. The David Matthews band. That's who he's going to change it to. He's very mature now, isn't he?

David Matthews. He's done emptying his tour bus onto unsuspecting people below the bridge. That's hilarious. I love how, okay, I remember that whole thing, and it's funny to be like, yeah, like they went to the fucking star of the show, and they're like, this a good place to empty the shit, Mr. Matthews? No, no, wait till we're over

the river. He was getting a blowjob smoking a fucking joint. He had no idea when shit, he just knows when he needs to shit that better be shit left in the tank. That's it. Better be enough room for my Dave Matthews dump. Other than that. Writing the extended version of Satellite just for the show purposes.

That's it, man. Doing some acoustic bullshit in there. So there it is. In 1784, the first law school in the United States was here. Litchfield Law School. Was that right? Yeah, established by a guy named Tapping Reeve. Tapping, they named him.

That's his first name? His first name is T-A-P-P-I-N-G, Tapping. Fascinating. Tapping Reeve. Reeve, sorry. Reeve had accepted several legal apprentices since he had settled there, but there was such a demand for legal help that he actually opened a school just so he didn't have to do all the legal work in the town essentially

like we need i need to make more lawyers this is fucking crazy that is interesting i'm the only one he is so busy now imagine that you go in a lot go in your like if they still deliver phone books for some reason i throw them right in the recycling bin. Do they? Yeah, you'll still get them on your doorstep once in a while. You're like, why are these here? Why would I look at this? It must be in between print years then because I haven't gotten one in I don't know how long. In Arizona, I used to get them like three times a year.

Really? I don't need any of these. If I could catch the guy doing it, I would. No. No more. No more phone books. He saw you throw it out. That's why he delivered a new one to you. Oh, they need another one. He must have mistaked it for something else, mistook it for something.

Mistaked. Mistaked. Again. Again. I said it again. So if you look in like anywhere's yellow pages, the bulk of the book is lawyers, basically. So like in Phoenix, it's unreal. We're all in trouble.

Hundreds of pages of lawyers. So the reviews of this town here. Oh, no, wait. I'm going to do this first. July 10th, 1989, many of the buildings in Bantam were heavily damaged by a tornado that ripped through here, which is not that common in this area. Connecticut got a tornado? Every once in a blue, there's a tornado. But it's not like, hey, it's tornado season.

Everybody build your tornado bunker. It's just when it happens, like, holy shit, wasn't expecting that. So reviews of this town, they're all good. There's nothing. It's a small place, so it's hard to not a ton of reviews. And the people have chosen to review it like it. This is about, these are about Litchfield.

Bantam doesn't have its own reviews. So five stars. Here's one. Oh boy. Now Litchfield is a wonderful small town. It is full of farms and non-chain stores. There are many hiking trails and outdoor activities on holidays. The green is full of people with many activities for children set up by the town.

This sounds like Funny Farm when he's paying people to fucking do Norman Rockwell Christmas and they're like ice skating and they put a tree up and shit. Winters are much colder than other areas in the state. It's in the Berkshire Mountains, so that makes sense. It's where that chain runs. Much colder than the rest of Connecticut? Holy fuck. Yeah, you're a little elevated in the berkshire mountains so that makes sense it's where that chain runs much colder than the rest of connecticut holy fuck yeah it's you're a little elevated in the berkshire so that's like we buy weed in the berkshires and there's always like more snow on the ground there than here it's just that right that kind of thing yeah there's a skiing thing right outside of like great barrington where we go for weed it's like there's this it's the it says it's the united states longest zip line

and it's a it's a fucking mountain i see they're making snow too there's the snow it's a mountain that you can ski on or take a goddamn zip line down if you're a psychopath it looks insane it's so long you're going down a mountain if you saw this thing i do one of those oh this looks crazy like this is like navy seal training this isn't right it's one of those ones where they like when they sell you a ticket you also get a leather glove for breaks a leather glove probably and a disclaimer form that you have to sign saying when you when they have to fucking peel your corpse off the bottom of a hill they're not gonna you're not gonna sue them yeah When you have the same fate as Sonny Bono in midair, then it's your fault. That's not just a pleasant day out.

Let's do something terrifying in life, possibly endangering. That is a bizarre choice of outing. What the fuck is your life lacking that you need to be elevated so far above the trees people go skydiving they do all sorts of shit that's adrenaline i do like a zip line it's a it's fun but it doesn't have to be so goddamn high yeah no this is the longest in the united states like you can just it's it's a fucking mountain with a zip line down it it's crazy there's like the lift on one side and the zip line on the other so you could either slowly lift up or fly down that shit so other seasons are pleasant they say though it is comforting to live in a town where you know your neighbors and

everyone is friendly there is a sense of community and there has never been a time where i did not feel safe well that's great for this town not Not once. Not once. We found it a wonderful place to raise a family. So started and ended sandwiched with wonderfuls. First sentence and last sentence. The worst one I could find is four stars here. Four stars. Litchfield is the quintessential New England town.

Historical buildings, great outdoors, thousands of acres of preservation areas with hikes and things to do all year from summer beaches to winter wonderlands for skiing snowshoeing and ice skating the generous snowshoeing who the hell does that that's not a sport that's no you want to trudge through the snow cool want to make it slightly easier i guess yeah but Yeah. But not too much. No, no, no, no. It'll still be difficult.

Let's go on a walk with these giant tennis rackets on our feet through the snow. That's a nice outing for a family. Sounds wonderful. The generosity and kindness of the community is intoxicating. Intoxicating kindness? Wow. That's something that would make you woozy. So that makes sense.

Yeah. Hey, back up here, buddy. I'm seeing spots. The public schools are excellent. It's as close as you'll ever get to a private school in a public setting. Great for raising a family or retirement. And that's what we see. It's all kids and people over 80.

It's crazy. 725 people here, so not a big town. Male, female, about average. 10% of the population is over 75, which is way high. And there's a shitload of kids either. Everyone here is either four or 100. There's no in between. There's a lot of over 85 and shit like that.

A lot of married people. It's a leafy suburban. Everybody's got, I don't know about everybody, but there's a lot of money in this area. The houses are nice. Big yards. Big properties. You know, estates. That kind of thing.

Very small Connecticut, but still super Connecticut. It's still very Connecticut. Race of this town, 92.5% white. Pretty white. 0.5% black. Not a lot of black people here two point four percent asian and uh two point five percent hispanic so it's a pretty white kind of town here religion no shock here 26.6 percent are catholic catholics are as we know

the baptists of the north uh point three percent jewish almost we we almost got there but not quite uh politically out here in uh in litchfield county last election 46.6 percent of people voted democrat 51.7 percent voted republican about 1.7 voted independent unemployment rate here is slightly higher than the rest of the country, a little bit higher. Median income is almost on the money, though. It's within $1,000 of the national average, $56,964. You're going to need more than that to live in Connecticut. This is a different kind of place.

A lot of people here making $100,000 in that area, but less than the average make more than that. So it's that kind of place. Three times the construction jobs of average places. So cost of living, 100 is regular. Here it is 100.6. So the money, housing is actually a little lower than the national average. It's a 90. Yeah, it's a 90.8.

But somehow the median home cost is above. So I don't know how that works. But it is $306,900 is the median home cost. So if we've convinced you to move to rural farmland Connecticut, we have for you the Bantam Connecticut real estate report. your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 1186 dollars which is right at the national average so it's about the average i found here this is kind of a small place um this is the least this is kind of the the worst house in the whole town and we'll put it the least updated kind of the worst house you're gonna find find. Biggest piece of shit. Biggest piece of shit.

And these are on Litchfield area somewhere. Here's one. It's a two bedroom, one bath, 1,064 square feet. It's not very updated. Like I said, the attic's kind of old and creepy, but it's nothing special. $244,900 for that. So a little bit pricey.

Then they get big from there. There's not a lot of small houses either in this area. They found a four-bedroom, four-bath, 4,021 square foot. Oh, now you're talking. T-bowl for every b-hole. Lots of room for you to wander. Big rooms. Built in 1782. Oh, my.

That's dope. Nice, historic, big garden. It has a tavern room, Jimmy. A tavern room. What the fuck is that? Is that the party room? It's a fucking bar in your house. Really?

It's a bar in your house with a bar and all. It's beautiful. It's awesome. Also comes with, I guess it's like a historic commercial building on the property. Really nice place. 995 grand for that. Wow. Which doesn't, I mean, that's expensive, obviously. It's almost a million bucks, but if you're spending a million, that's

not a bad. It's a 4,000 square foot house. You're going to, you're going to spend that kind of money. It's yeah. That's what I mean. You're not going to get that much smaller. Then I found five bedroom, four bath, 4,612 square feet built in 1832 it's got it's like on purpose the kitchen is like 50s retro so it's kind of weird yeah it's like a weird thing

pink and blue and like the appliances are kind of they look 50s it's kind of like this new retro shit hate it but understand yeah I see what they're going for. Still has a servant's kitchen and a pantry and all that shit, like servant's pantry and kitchen, which is kind of useless for a family. I'll be in the servant's pantry preparing our meal. Like, who the fuck is doing that?

But it's on a bunch of land. It's idyllic. It's beautiful. $2,475,000 for that bad boy. And probably taxes to match, I would bet there. Oh, yeah, but you're right. For a lot of property. Well, that's why they say, like, public school is as good as a private school here.

They are in Connecticut because they pay out of their assholes in taxes for it. So things to do in this joint here. This is my favorite thing, so we're going to talk about this. The Ripley Waterfowl Conservancy. Okay. Who's Ripley? Andley and is it like ducks and shit well let's find out what the fuck they're doing here quote i'll just read you right from the thing here we'll find out what to do it's easy to lose your worries in the ripley waterfowl conservancy you're worried about being pecked by something instead your worries are have shifted now to having your eye pecked out by a mallard.

It's a different thing. Your child carried away by a crane. They have them here. Oh, my God. More than 60 species of waterfowl, including ducks, owls, cranes, and raptors. You got raptors? Those exist? I don't want those.

I'm not going here. No wonder why you have no more worries. I didn't even know a raptor still existed. When you're frightened for your survival, your mortgage means less at that point. You're like, you know what? I can't pay it this month, but I don't want to be eaten by a raptor and then be pecked at by a fucking owl once nightfall comes. And they don't mean like the dinosaur from Jurassic Park, but a bird, that raptor bird,

that's a scary fucking bird it sounds terrifying i don't know that it still existed no that sounds worse than going to the phoenix zoo and having those monkeys running around that is terrifying too i just on an island out there those ones they just start they run past you and shit they start fucking with you i always i always give a warning too i'm like listen monkeys they get too. I'm like, listen, monkeys. They get it. And I'm like, I will kick you so fucking far. You weigh, I will field goal, 30-yard field goal kick your ass.

So don't fuck with me. Your friends may get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe. Not before I make your head into a canoe. I'll start kicking monkeys. I don't want to kick the monkeys. I don't want to hurt animals but if they're gonna try to rip my face off or you know tear my nutsack off i am kicking for dear life yeah you're getting telling his buddies he's not bluffing you're getting a 13 in the sternum little guy it's coming take that so uh yeah you've got a sternum

you got one in there somewhere. They're built like people. They got to start them. Same thing. Yeah, they got to start. Greet visitors. Waterfowl of the waterfowl greet visitors. No. To this 16 acre conservancy, enchanting them with their grace and beauty.

That's the waterfowl. They're going to do a little show for you and show some leg and shit. Fuck in the spring. The Conservancy's goal is to, quote, mend what is broken and help to provide waterfowl with the best chance of survival. In this vein, rare and endangered birds live among the area's expansive aviaries, open ponds and fields. The Conservancy's open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Monday through Sunday. Take a self-guided walk around the property. No thanks.

Or we highly recommend booking a one-and-a-half-hour guided sightseeing tour. Whichever one is safer, I'll go with. I think I want somebody with me with a fucking raptor on the lutes. Well, this is why we're doing this. Always wanted to get up close to a hawk. Has that ever crossed your mind, Jimmy? wanted to get up close to a hawk does that ever cross your mind jimmy you want to get close to what book of falconry experience for your chance to have a bird of bird of prey fly to your hand a falconry experience sounds wonderful can't wait for that a bird of prey fly right to your hand that's what you want you ever wake up in the morning and just

think you know i need a i need a cuddle a big fucking cat they do those too terrifying not here but i think next door they have that at the uh the big cat rip your throat out conservancy how do they get the bird to come to your hand do they make you hold on to a mouse or something i get you have one of those gloves i don't know if they're trained or what the hell they do. Does it have like some sort of bird nip on it? I guess. To make you fly to it? I don't know why they do that.

You can train to go to your hand. I don't know why you'd want to, though. You're not delivering messages like it's the 1200s or something. This is the 13th century. The picture of me with a bird of prey flying to me would just be me like yeah my arm back and like my head turned and mortimer deliver my message to jimmy wistman and he'd take off to your house it'd be the worst picture ever jesus a crime rate in this town pretty low uh property crimes about half the national average and violent crime murder rape

robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is about one-third of the national average and violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is about one-third of the national average so pretty damn low that said never felt unsafe a day in my life let's talk about a murder shall we weren't there that day they missed a murder day apparently yeah here um now i found two i have to include these this is quotes about the area that i found that are kind of lend to this one is from litchfield and it's this is amazing edward sepples he runs a sepples he runs a funeral parlor that faces the town green so you expect him to be a bright sunny guy right away he's not going to have a weird, grim outlook on shit. He says, we are not the cutesy with boutiques and shops like Avon.

When tourists come, it's usually for the day. Get the fuck out, is what he just said. Unless you're going to die here and let me bury you. Fuck on off back to New Jersey with you. Very nice. And then they said that it's one of the best preserved early 19th century towns in new england because modern development here has been very disciplined they said it's a deliberate choice to keep the to keep out the commercial industrial tenants that are around us in favor of a lifestyle of our choosing okay which i guess is idyllic like a board that tells people no

apparently yeah that's one of these places where if you know walmart wants to come they say no which I guess is idyllic in common. Like a board that tells people no? Apparently, yeah. That's one of these places where if Walmart wants to come, they say, no, you can't fucking come here. Fuck off. And they have to go somewhere else. And it's kind of out by itself, so it's not like you can really put it in a nearby town and get the runoff from it.

Now, let's go back in time, shall we, Jimmy? Amazing. Time machine. Let's do it up. Let's go back in time. We we, Jimmy? Time machine. Let's do it up. Let's go back in time. We're going to go back to 1973. All right. Yeah, man.

This is some hair and some cars that are still nice out. They're getting bad, though. It's going to be. Lots of steel, though. Lots of steel. Yeah, this is people's. The bottoms of people's pants are just adequate. People's pants.

People's pants just out of control. Big, like huge. Shelter for a small animal at this moment. So we need to go to Falls Village, Connecticut this particular day. And no, no, no. Very close by, actually, in the nearby area. September 28th, 1973 is the day here. Now, Barbara Gibbons is 51 years old and so we're going to talk about here she um she is found in her home that day uh she's found in the bedroom of her

falls village home uh her son found her only child who's 18 years old, he came in and discovered his mother's body. And we'll talk about what happened to her. One of the things that's interesting is she had $100 in cash in her possession the day she was murdered. And then when she was found, like people saw her with $100 and she had $100. And when she was searched after her body was was found she only had 16 cents on her so they were curious about that if this was like a robbery motive or at least part of it is i'll grab this 99 84 really fast really quick instead of i'm keeping the 16 cents i don't have a change thing i don't have a giant water jug or anything I throw it into. Now, quickly, Peter Riley, he left his house at 7.20 p.m. that night. He drove his blue 1968 Corvette.

Ah, that little motherfucker. What a car. Ah, you little bastard. You're 18. You're driving a 68 Vette. Holy shit, man. Wow. Son of a bitch bastard.

That is nice. It's a nice ride. It's a good day. That's a real good day. He drove to a teen center meeting in the basement of the Methodist church. Okay, we're getting less good now. This sounds like a lot of fun. At least he got to drive there fun.

Yeah, but they're not going to teach you how to roll joints and finger people. I don't think that's that kind of meeting. It's probably... James, he drives that car. He's learned that already. He already knows knows maybe he's teaching the other kids about that maybe that's what he's doing there maybe he's been smoking joints and fingering all day he needs a good message so he uh went to this meeting many people saw him there and talked to him there's no doubt that he was at this meeting absolutely 100 and luck you

know he's there he left the church area at about 9 30 p.m he drove his friend john sachaki home and then he headed to his house now the whole thing that's crucial here is the route he took to his house he drove to the intersection of braggg and Railroad Streets in the center of Cannon and stopped at a stop sign. The intersection is 5.23 miles from Riley's house. OK, now there's that. OK, now he's the one who called Sharon Hospital shortly before 9.58 p.m. As he calls 9.57 and change. He told a nurse that answered the phone, Barbara Fenn, that his mother was breathing after he was asked to check on her because he just saw her lying there.

There's blood everywhere and her clothes are in disarray. It's obvious that she's been attacked. So he sees her. I guess you can hear from what he says. You can hear very labored breathing. She's just kind of, you know, not great labored. It doesn't sound like that. It's coming like she's going to come around anytime soon.

So apparently he sees this and immediately calls, picks up the phone. He didn't go check on her. He didn't go at 18. I'm not sure what I do in that situation it's not your mom yeah because it's not like she was let's explain how she was found first i think because it's it's he calls anyway and says that um you know they said go check on your mom and he said that she's breathing but it's not good um anyway the autopsy shows that the cause of death to be exsanguation of blood which she bled to death that's a very fair yeah bled too much is what

that is sounds like an italian way of saying they were bleeding i fucking exsanguated that son of a bitch he came up he said oh you know you're a jerk off i said i'm a jerk offoff. I said, I'm a jerk-off. You want to see a jerk-off? I fucking exsanguated him. I'm telling you. Fucking puddle. So it just means like excessive bleeding? I think it's, yeah, blood. It's bleeding out is what that is. Just blood loss. What a weird way.

Due to multiple wounds in the neck. Oh. Yeah. She said, the medical examiner said that the limit of her actual life after suffering cuts to her throat and the arteries that were severed would be a maximum of about six minutes where she would be dead because it was, she was sliced up good. Um, he stated that a biological death occurs from four to six minutes after the windpipe

is cut, including the time utilized for the blood to come out. So all of that. He stated that a maximum of 60 seconds would be utilized for Barbara Gibbons to bleed out with the neck injuries that she had. That's how bad she was cut. So also in this was a deep abdominal wound uh deep wounds in the lower back lacerations of the interior vagina as well really yeah so stabbed all over the place and this is like raped with the knife basically this is like what like some ted bundy shit here was what this is. Heavy. And they said those wounds had not oozed or pumped any bloods.

So those wounds were inflicted postmortem. Yeah. So, yeah, he whoever did this stabbed her up in the neck and cut the arteries and she bled out. And then he started. Wow. Going to town on her. Just lower back. You know, privates everywhere like this is a yeah this

is very personal very overkill and um anyway so they say that uh um the analyzed physical evidence in the case the one doctor here who is the uh where is this guy? The director of laboratory of the Laboratory of Forensic Science in Corning, New York. Very important. Yeah. Professor McDonald. Professor Herbert L. McDonald. Wow.

Sounds trustworthy. He says the angular nature of the bloodstain pattern in front of the right ear is very pronounced. Undoubtedly, this resulted from the right side of her face was down on the carpet. Some thin angular object was on the carpet below the victim's right ear, extending an inch or so forward toward her cheek. This object was three to four inches to four to five inches minimum, and it was about an eighth to a quarter inches thick and either square or rectangular so a big nasty blade yeah with a yeah as blood soaked into the thick carpet it was blocked from wetting the area on and in front of the victim's right ear thus it produced a bold

outline of the object of the blood stain on the the victim's face. The victim's head was not moved for at least 10 minutes, during which time blood around the object dried sufficiently to retain the object's profile. So you could see... Like a razor blade? Yes, you could see like that sort of thing on there. After her head had been on the right side for 10 minutes or longer, someone turned her head to the left in a position away from the object and removed the object.

So it was still in her neck. It was in her neck and then moved her over, I guess, or next to her, close to her neck, and they moved it from there. So whoever moved it, which would probably be the kid. It makes sense that he calls 911, runs in there, looks at her, moves her head to look at her face, and then sees that. And you'd move a knife away from your mother's throat that was laying on the ground bleeding, I think. Also, this professor said that the blood-soaked T-shirt worn by Barbara Gibbons, the blood-stained patterns on and below the victim's right breast is angular and well-defined.

This pattern was produced under the following circumstances. The T-shirt was down over the breast at least five inches below the nipple. The right side of the T-shirt was completely soaked through with blood. The T-shirt remained stationary on the victim's chest for a period of three to ten minutes. So that would make sense in terms of being moved, ten minutes, that ten-minute window thing. The shirt was pulled over the breasts in a manner shown and left. She was found in the bedroom.

Her jeans and her underwear, which were inside the jeans, were found pulled down to her feet. Okay. Okay. With her, the way her injuries were, it was apparently difficult to remove them. So it was hard.

They were lying in a place that, because they weren't, they were around her feet, but they weren't on her. So I guess that was the deal. They said that the, they were lying in the logical pulled inside out. Yeah. Like yanked like that. And then they, they were stopped there. They said that they were found in the logical place. A second person would drop them after a hurried removal.

They said laboratory analysis revealed that the the underwear contained head hair, which was found. Listen to this was found microscopically to be like Peter Riley's like the sun, the sun, but it's on the floor of their house where he lives. So and it's also all over the place and it's also not DNA. It's microscopically similar, which back then every black guy's hair is microscopically similar. Every brown haired white guy's hair is microscopically similar. Every redhead's hair is microscopically. They're all similar. It's just similar properties.

Some might have thicker or thinner hair, but, you know, whatever. So it's not that's not a good clue is what I'm getting at here. The shirt Peter Peter Riley was wearing was analyzed and a pubic hair found on a cuff was microscopically like the hair of barbara gibbons which if she was assaulted in the room and he went in there yeah he might get a pube on his pant cuff also the shirt he's wearing all he's got is a pube on it okay yeah that's what i mean um it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urqu. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Medical examinations showed that Barbara suffered lacerations of the vagina.

They have been, those are post-mortem, like I said. The puncture wound on her right hand also, which is defined as a defensive wound. That is pre, so that's a defensive wound. Analysis of head hairs clutched in her bloody right hand. She had a bloody, you know, there. Showed them to have been forced from their source. So she fought back. She fucking yanked somebody's hair out.

And they said that these were microscopically like Peter's as well. And they said that these facts signify that Barbara was conscious when she was slashed so she wasn't like bum rush knocked out and then slashed she was she fought back and got her throat cut so um the blood from barbara was localized in a very small area in comparison to slim similar you know slashing type homicide scenes they said the fact indicates that she was immobile and she would be with her. Listen to this shit. They found afterwards her thighs were broken.

What? Her thighs were both broken. The force that that takes is crazy. Oh, your thighs. Fuck, man. You can jump and land in your body. Yeah, your body. Your legs don't snap.

Those are that's incredible. Your thighs are very, very strong. So they said she would have been unable to flee here at all because she had broken thighs. And they happened during this attack at some point because there's no, she didn't get in an accident a week before or anything. They said blood pattern on her naked thighs indicate that her throat was slashed while she was in a seated position. eyes indicate that her throat was slashed while she was in a seated position. So I think she was sitting up throat slash bled out down on herself and then fell over on her right side and was laying on her right. Somebody began to viciously attack her viciously go after her hard.

So the son, Peter Anthony Riley, he is initially the suspect. Yeah, that's it. I mean, there's no, they find his hairs, what they think are his hairs, and they're like, that's it.

Also, in addition, several people interviewed stated that Peter and Barbara argued frequently. He's 18. At home. He lives, yeah. Especially over the use of the Corvette. Gee, an 18-year-old kid's arguing with his mom over the use of a car. That's super rare. Yeah, this is, hey, wow, there's a lot of murder suspects in the country right now

yeah holy shit and it's a cool car i mean yeah surprise he's he wants to drive it surprise fuck man uh arthur made out he made a sworn statement that peter and barbara used profane language during arguments over the car not Not profane language in the Northeast. Nobody uses that kind of language. Peter staying out and also Peter taking his mother to the store when she needed to go to the store. He'll take the car and go out and she's like, well, I need to go places. And he'll be out with his friends or whatever. Fuck, Mom.

I'm trying to get laid. These are the most common of problems that you would have. I mean, uh, this guy further States, I estimate that, uh, of the arguments, 90% were over the Corvette automobile. So argument over the vet. Um, now a nine year old neighbor said that Peter and Barbara were heatedly arguing over his use of the Corvette the day that Barbara was killed. The nine-year-old said that.

A nine-year-old neighbor, the day of the afternoon. Trust them. Yeah. Nine-year-olds have a really, number one, they're really, really good at following conversations, paying attention. That's what nine-year-olds are best at, is paying attention, especially to what adults say to each other. They really care a lot about that. So, I mean, they didn't know iPad or anything back then, so maybe they did. Understanding and deconstructing sarcasm is certainly their fluency.

They're very good at that. So there you go. Anybody out there, if you're younger, you're thinking about it, you're like, oh, my childhood was boring. No, it wasn't no you did not have to stare at the neighbors and watch them argue about the use of a car because that's what this kid did for entertainment back then probably get a hobby kiddo jesus now uh dr lavalo uh gave a statement that he spoke with Barbara Gibbons on the telephone between 935 and 940 that night. So between 935 and 940, he's talking to her. By 958, she's got, you know, death rattles and he's on the phone with his son's on the phone with the hospital. So something we know where the window is anyway.

He said the doctor said that she was in an agitated and aggressive mood that night on the phone. Now, there's another thing here that might explain that. Her blood alcohol content after she's examined is.22, which is almost three times most states' legal limits. That's a lot. That's really drunk. That's not, hey, I'm too drunk to drive legally. I'll probably crash into something if I drive now because I'm not. That's too drunk to drive for sure.

Yeah. And her stomach alcohol level was 0.81%. So that's alcohol that hasn't made it into her bloodstream yet that she just downed. I mean, she must have downed half a bottle of booze right then. downed i mean she must have downed half a bottle of booze right then so this indicated she had ingested a considerable amount of alcohol and was absolutely definitely under the influence of some kind so taking it out on herself for sure that would explain the uh their aggression on the phone um now peter tells somebody later that his mother threatened him with taking the uh taking away the car or taking the plates off the car that's what they with another one they hear the murder weapon

they end up finding this explains the squareness of these cuts is it's not like a i thought first like maybe a putty knife something like that but it's not it's a kitchen knife with a broken tip that's what it ends up being so it's a it's squared off but still extremely sharp in the front to stab with that's that's more brutal because there's no point to go in so it would hurt a lot more to get stabbed oh god it's a dull with a serrated oh jesus uh yeah um but they said this knife could have been, from what they're saying, possibly been in use as a screwdriver to remove the license plates on the Corvette. They're saying this could have been like what they were using as a screwdriver. She made like a fucking utility tool out of shit.

Yeah. Don't have a flathead. So cut that shit off. Cut that shit off. Based on the facts that they frequently argued over the Corvette, that they were heatedly arguing about it the afternoon of the murder, and that she was, quote, aggressively upset just prior to his arrival home. The fact that she was drunk gave the police reason to believe that maybe an immediate conflict between her and her son arrived, happened when he got home, and it all, you know, followed out. happened when he got home and it all you know followed out now i have to think that a kid who's been normal otherwise to say i'm gonna stab my mother cut her throat break her thighs and then stab her in the vagina several times that's not normal behavior no that's like ed kemper type shit.

Yeah, it's a bridge too far. Yeah. There was clues that was going to happen before that. You know what I mean? He had killed other people, so it wasn't like this is a different thing. This is just a normal kid who just got back from church, and you're like, it's a lot to believe to me. It's a leap. It's a leap.

To me, he's not my first first person especially with such a common argument like just such a common argument that happens all the time um now their their theory is a person stooping behind the corvette to remove the marker to remove the license plates could not be observed by the operator through the rear window so they said that peter also stated that the corvette had a defective parking brake as well at one point so examination of the corvette the morning after this happened said there was a fresh abraded area on the underside of the muffler which was located at the right side of the vehicle examination of the area revealed that it's

it contained cloth impressions no blood or anything also fresh hand impressions in the road film on the forward part of the underside of the tire well so the dust shit that builds up in there microscopic examination of the cloth impressions on the muffler revealed that the

twill of fibers was the same size and weave as the twill of fibers and the pants found at the feet of barbara gibbons gibbons so but these are their jeans so yeah it's probably common um there's less brands of jeans back then too you got to take that into consideration there's not 4 000 different pairs of kinds of jeans but denim is a certain weave anyway it's not like yes and back then it wasn't like it you you wove denim a certain way. Yeah. Even the colors were, you know.

Experimentation revealed that such impressions are eradicated after driving a short distance, like from the teen center to the residence. well revealed six friction Ridge particle air are partial areas, which were processed and photographed and compared with palm impressions from Barbara Gibbons within three of the latent friction Ridge partials are three and four similar friction carrot characteristics overlapping ending ridges, ending ridges, short ridges, all the P the, the fingerprint shit.

So they're not, it's not an exact match but there's a parts of it that are a match they so they grade they grade matches in a point system i think you need like a five point match has to be or four point match to make it like legally a match or whatever i'm not sure so this is a handprint on the car and her handprint on the muffler yes she was crouched that's where they think she was at they think that yeah her jeans rubbed against the muffler and they think possibly her hand got the underside of the wheel well okay so that's what they're

saying so um yeah uh they said that he arrived home between on his story he uh he passed the intersection of railroad and brag at about 9 39 and we told you about the distance arriving home sometime between 9 43 and 9 49 probably about 9 45 he pulled in the front yard um they said their theory is that he pulled in she started fucking you know fighting with him and that's what happened so he made a he made a couple of calls too he called information he called their personal doctor's home and then information again and then the hospital so back then very difficult to make phone calls unless you you needed a phone book back then so they said if he had blood on his hands he could have uh washed it off or wiped it off if he had

blood on his clothes he could have changed into it off or wiped it off. If he had blood on his clothes, he could have changed into clothing that was similar to what he'd been seen in. They said it would have been necessary to dispose of those items. They said he could have gone across the street and hidden it somewhere very easily. Okay. So they said then he could have returned to the house and waited for the arrival of a neighbor at 10 Oh 3 PM,

which is what happened. So he's charged with the murder, okay? They sit him down. They question him for 24 straight hours. Oh, Jesus. Which would absolutely not be allowed now. That's getting thrown out. Cops say now after six, they call it a fucking day

because there's a good chance anything they get won't be used anyway that people will toss it six eight hours maybe you know if they've already started beforehand it just takes longer that's fine but if they're still saying i'm innocent after eight fucking hours maybe a different approach a different death oh yeah or they're not giving it up or and if they do it's because you whatever so he finally after 24 hours he confesses to the crime he said fine i did it i killed my mother i need to go home i'm tired can i go then then he wants to watch wrestlemania jimmy that's the thing then he recanted a statement of course he did okay so they did all of these trial runs here about where he was to the house and they were saying from that intersection to the house if he

went 90 miles an hour he'd get there at 9 43 and 40 seconds if he did 70 miles an hour he'd get there at 9 44 and 29 seconds if he did 50 miles an hour he'd get there at 9 45 and 40 seconds so uh they said that uh the trial runs did not allow allow for Peter to pull into the yard and adjust his headlight as he had claimed because he said he got there as those old vet headlights are wacky. So he had to fix one of them. And that's what he did. The. Yeah. So that's that's what he's saying now.

He's what they're saying here is he's saying it would the defense says it would take longer. The prosecution saying he'd get there earlier. He had plenty of time to walk in. Bum rusher. here is he's saying it would the defense says it would take longer the the prosecution's saying he'd get there earlier he had plenty of time to walk in bum rusher the amount of time he had would be he walks in mom freaks out immediately goes to take the fucking plates off he runs her over picks her up she's 5 215 pounds picks her up slings her over his shoulder walks her in the house and then cuts her throat rips her pants off and stabs the fuck out of her that's the theory all within within a minute of arriving home not a not a logical bit of that no so after they have a six week long trial for peter and he is found guilty of first degree manslaughter and sentenced to serve 16 years in prison for this, which is pretty lenient, honestly, if they thought he did it.

So lawyers seek to overturn the conviction. And they're saying that there's neighbors, there's other people who had motive and opportunity to commit the crime. people who had motive and opportunity to commit the crime uh also a relative of a neighbor saying that uh was seen after the murder with what was said to be a lot of cash for him he didn't usually have more than a couple bucks on him so the missing hundred dollars came up there finally two years later 1977 a judge vacates his sentence and then he ends up being exonerated he's on the he's on the exonerations list and all that shit good for him and that's because he gets let free they still want to charge him for years i mean there's all these subsequent investigations saying we got to charge peter we got to charge peter and all of this for finally when DNA testing becomes available they test those head hairs they

don't fucking belong to Peter not even his they're not his they're similar to his a guy somebody with a similar colored hair and you know make of his hair it is but they're not his fucking hairs end of that's it that's not Peter now whoever's fucking hair is in her hand in her bloody hand that's who killed her yeah period nobody else so he ends up being let out and uh they said that the judge was acting on a one man as a one-man grand jury concluded that there was no sufficient evidence that he killed his mother and um yeah it was a they said that he was tried and convicted, but a coalition of neighbors, celebrities and detective work put the legal safeguards that protect that protected him and set him free. Celebrities, which ones? I didn't say I couldn't find that.

I wish maybe locals, you know, local celebrity. Maybe it's what's his name? No, the guy, the singer from up there that we talked about the it's for the kids al al bruno al bruno maybe it's al bruno he came in and sang a song for him fixed him up but when they do a reinvestigation they want him charged period like it's a it's a thing man like there's a there's a newspaper article that is there's no ads there's nothing else it's just like four full fucking pages of a newspaper dedicated to the reinvestigation and the conclusion they need this crime solved because this is every person's looks terrible yeah you're a woman was

stabbed in her vagina in her own home that's horrific yeah you're allowed to be 53 and drunk in your own house that's fine you know what i mean without getting stabbed in the vagina let's say you're most vulnerable she is just gutted in her own home so yeah they they want him charged i mean it's it's almost like the the article it quotes all police sources so it's not libelous or anything because they're quoting police sources. But I mean, these cops are like the investigators that are reinvestigating the case are very aggressive in their stance that Peter should. He did it and he should be in prison for this. And, you know, they're trashing his name and he didn't fucking do it.

I mean, it doesn't match his head, period. And he didn't fucking do it. I mean, it doesn't match his head, period. They also find out later on from the DNA that it doesn't match other people they thought it was. People that Peter was saying that he thought suspected. Neighbors, a relative of the neighbor with the money, all of them cleared through DNA testing. So it's nobody close to the house, nobody that they thought it was. This is like, who knows?

Yeah, an actual nightmare. An actual nightmare in a window of 12 minutes tops. I mean, someone can come in and do this. So it's horrible. The case ends up going unsolved now, okay, from there. Now let's go to May of 1979. May of 79. Let's talk about a lady here.

Barbara McKittis. McKittis, McKittis, M-C-K-I-T-I-S. I'm not sure if that's McKittis or McKittis, but it's another Barbara. Either way. So Barbara's 53 years old. So two years older than Barbara Gibbons. Barbara Gibbons died. She just separated from her husband.

Her husband's, you know, they're going through a divorce. She's trying to get her life together. At this moment, they have grown kids, you know what I mean? Because I saw, like, their daughter was in high school band in, like, the early 60s because she had a flute solo in something I found in the newspaper. So anyway, she's trying to get her life together. She lives right now alone in the family house. It's a 13-room house. Whoa.

They did great. That's a big fucking house. 13 rooms. 13 rooms so she's living all alone in this house and she's kind of tired of it at this point she's like you know she wants to move on and do something else here so what you got james i got six i was gonna say i mean i just counted them in my head six rooms i feel like a baller with that from the bedrooms maybe i think eight but like they're broken up different your rooms are bigger you're you know that's a new york house it's not yeah an open floor plan so it'd be different one two three so you can i have five

five rooms yeah it's like my kitchen and dining room are separate rooms all together yeah i'm trying to think yeah okay yeah it's not that much though no 13's a lot oh yeah then eight that's the i have that little tiny one off the thing so you count like the two little tiny ones and the ones broken up so yeah it's probably eight 13 is a big fucking house that is a lot you have like a shit you have like a study in that house yeah there's a wing it's got built-ins there's built-ins that you have books on i feel like if you live in a house like are they counting closets you know what i mean i don't know that cannot bath that doesn't count in the rooms bathrooms either so this is just straight

you weren't counting bathrooms you have i was at least two bathrooms three four fives oh it's six yeah it's six it's definitely six there you go so she lives in this house um she's trying to get where she's having estate sales she her house is for sale everything in it's for sale sure fucking clean it out starting over barbara's doing so you know 53 is a tough time to start over, and she wants to start over for real. So good for her. So she has an ongoing tag sale. It's not one day garage sale. It's always going on of household goods and all this type of shit. So one guy comes over to look at some of the stuff here.

He's a handyman from nearby Morris, and his name is William H. Stepney Jr., which we know right away. Not great. Keep an eye on him. So they meet on May 3, 1979. So he comes to look at her shit and all that. Now, Stepney, he's 63 years old. He's got some health problems here.

He's got a heart condition and a throat operation that he had recently. He's described as lean and lantern jawed. I don't know what that means. Is that round? I don't know. Lean? Lean and lantern jawed? I've never heard that term before.

Jaw so rigid you can hang a lantern from it. Maybe that's what it is. It's got like a hook on the end of it you can hang. I'm not sure. Like the bad guy in Smurfs. You know what I mean? He's got. What the hell is his name?

Yeah. Like a chin that came out like that. You know, the Smurfs villain. Yeah. Gargamel. Gargamel. I thought that was the cat. What's the cat's name?

I don't know. Isn't Gargamel the bad guy? He's that was the cat. What's the cat's name? I don't know. Isn't Gargamel the bad guy? He's got a cat, though. I thought the cat's name was. Now I'm all fucked up. No, I think his name is Gargamel, but I thought the cat's name was Gargamel. I knew Gargamel's one of them. So either way.

Fuck, man. Way off the track. So he underwent a tracheotomy and he breathes through an opening in his neck. Yep, that's what that is. Which makes it obviously difficult for him to speak. He also suffers from angina as well, so he's got some heart problems. Oh, that's okay. Not the healthiest guy in town.

His physician here, been his physician for a few years, he said that among his problems were angina, which caused him chest pains, a history of stomach ulcers, tendonitis all over the place, inflammation of some tendons, the removal of his larynx for cancer so that he now breathes through an opening in his throat rather than obviously normal. Problems with his hands and feet, var varicose veins complaints of shakiness dizziness and depression i'd be depressed too yeah it's a lot he sounds like he's 85 he does you know but i mean he's in his 60s if you lived hard you're in your 60s that'll happen if you smoke a whole lot all of those things drink too yeah yeah i feel like you got a drink to have all that shit too like stomach ulcers that's booze hard liquor not beer yeah well we'll find out here asriel holy shit asriel thank you

fuck yeah i don't know why that just came to me yeah yes gargamel's the cat right no gargamel's the guy as well as the cat okay. Okay. Good enough. Either way. Thank you. So married. He's been married for 44 years. Wow. So married to his wife, Lillian, since he was 19 years old. Yeah.

Very, very early. Now, he apparently went to the house the one day on May 3rd to look for scrap shit. the house the one day on may 3rd to look for scrap shit he returned to barbara's house with his wife and daughter on may 5th and may 7th to purchase some more items yeah so she's got the hoppingest you know estate sale in town he's coming back every day he's running around scraping pennies together to get that goddamn uh board stretcher he also arranged to help her clear some scrap metal out of her garage and sell it to a drunk dealer yeah so he's trying to help her out apparently and saying she doesn't know what the fuck yeah she doesn't know what to do with this shit basically so on may and that's the thing too about when when you when you get a divorce and you have all this shit you and you don't know what's worth what. Yeah.

Well, it seems like they probably lived in the house for 30 years, too. Right. So when you live in a house for 30 years, shit builds up. Yeah. And you don't know what's desirable and what's not. There's like a dollar. I don't know. Get the fuck out of here. Especially in like barns and garages and places like that.

Just a lot of stuff, like scrap metal. Yeah. So he's there the 3rd, the 5th, and the 7th. He's with his wife and daughter the 5th and 7th to go there. On May 8th, he spends most of the day over Barbara's house. Wow. Hanging out. During which time, he filled his pickup truck with scrap metal for her.

And he drove the fully loaded truck. And he's seen leaving driving a fully loaded truck. I think it was full of rims, if I'm not mistaken, at one one point they had a truckload of rims in the house how do you how many cars have you trashed where you're like well put it on the rim pile well yeah like what the fuck is happening we get a new set of wheels put on this car and i will take my old ones thank you thank you that are trashed with those in the back no no i have. I have a pile that I put them on. It makes me feel good to know that they're there. I feel secure knowing there's a pile of my old rims. I'm always shocked when they're like, find a barn find of a car that somebody parked

back there. Like, how do you and it's like brand new. How do you buy a brand new car, put it in a barn and then walk away? How do you in a barn of all? Yeah. What is it? Back to the future what are you fucking doing that's the thing i could see like somebody saved up to buy like their sunday

driver no one else but why did you park it in the barn is what i don't get i'll park it in here with the dust and the shit that'll be good for it why did you park a buick back there that you never drove like the car how much how much money do you have you can just buy a car and park it and be like i'll drive that one day dude i saw one recently where a guy was like a corvette collector and he had like 20 corvettes in a barn and he died and they were ranging in years from like 61 to 94 or some shit. Like he had, you know, a couple of years missing, but he had like brand new models of every fucking Corvette. And no miles. Crazy.

No, they all had like hardly any miles on them. They all had under a thousand miles. Why are you doing that? You spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to fill your barn with shit that you don't give a fuck about. Yeah. If you don't drive those after a little while, they don't run anymore. So then you have to fix them. What, just to look at them?

Corvette Museum? What the fuck is happening? That's a weird thing to do. People do that with cars that don't matter, like old Volkswagens. They have old Volkswagens that they just park in the garage and they never used it. I don't get it. Why have it? Why did you do that?

Hey, I'm going to get rid of that thing that's filling our garage up. You know, that brand new car we never used. I had to have for some reason. I don't know why. I can't imagine. So William's been there the 3rd, the 5th, the 7th, and now he's there on the 8th doing all of that. He drove the fully loaded truck on the 8th from the scrap metal to his home in morris that evening because he was there all day till it was dark the next day the 9th um he drove

the truckload of scrap metal to a junkyard in waterbury and got home about 9 30 10 a.m okay from there okay now mrs stepney his wife of years, said that he left home on May 9th about 7.05 or 7.10 a.m. to go to the junkyard, got home about 9.45, then left again at 10.15 to go back to Barbara's house. She said he returned at 11.45, so he was gone for an hour and a half. So he was gone for an hour and a half. And she said at that point, he, Mr. and Mrs. Stepney, William and Lillian, spent the afternoon by a pond behind their home. So they had a nice idyllic, I don't know, pond day. Yeah, they just got on a picnic. I picture there's a checkered blanket on the ground. There's a basket involved in this scenario.

I see on golden pond so they do that they have a you know whatever a day um i guess at some point he tells his wife that he's going to barbara's house to split the money from the sale of the scrap metal with her because he went and did it and her deal was if you take it away i'll split the money with you yeah fair enough i don't have to do shit and i get some money for it great honest trade yeah so yeah he earned that so he said he's gonna do that and then pick up another load too so he can make a few more bucks on the side because he's a handyman and this is kind of a handyman type job so yeah i'll run it around and give you the money give you half yeah so lillian became annoyed and they started arguing.

She didn't want him to leave. Why are you leaving? Why are you going over there? You got to do that. So she doesn't like it. So he left home in his truck. Now, this is from earlier because, like we said, she said he left at about 10.15 to go back there and then come back. And then they spent time at the pond.

Now, he left home in his truck that morning between sometime after 10 between 10 and 10 30 we know this because he bought an eight pack of eight ounce budweiser cans awesome so this is you ever see those little eight those little eight ounces yeah yeah they have them in soda now all the sodas make a little eight ounce which they're great because if it's really cold, you can just down them in a second. Feels refreshing. Feel like you did something. Yeah. And it feels like you didn't drink that much soda even though it's still eight ounces of soda.

But here, an eight-ounce, these are funny, an eight-pack of eight-ouncers. I remember those, and they don't do that anymore. I don't think they do the eight of eights anymore. No. I remember those, and they don't do that anymore. I don't think they do the 8 of 8s anymore. No, it's the 6 of 12s, and they should go back to maybe the 8s of 8s, because look, it stays cold. That's the thing. The 12 gets warm so fast. So fast, yeah, and you've got to down it. You know me, I don't like warm beer, so when we drink beer, like 4th of July, it's two sips for me.

I'm like, yeah, so you can get yourself a buzz that way. Warm beer is horrible. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st.

Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So he told her he was just he told his wife, I'm just going to, you know, split the money with her. Meanwhile, he's stopping off for eight packs and then so that's why it took an hour and a half to split money with somebody so he does that this is somewhere between 10 and 11 a.m um he did that uh then after that he buys another eight pack of beer in bantam. So 16 beers from his house to Bantam. I assume he drank an eight back already and is needing more.

So that's a lot. People who saw him that morning of May 9th, Deborah Palmer, who worked at the South farms package store, which is like a convenience store in the center of Morris. She said, Stephanie bought an eight pack uh of eight ounce beers budweiser in cans and a bottle of canada dry club soda from the store that morning between 10

and 10 30 a.m she said he was in the same he was in the store at the same time as the drake's bakery delivery man oh mr drake's man i love you how'd you not grab him and give him a fucking big kiss and start dry humping his leg saying you fucking gorgeous bastard give me devil dogs does he does he show up in a duck costume i hope i really like webster i really hope side note on drake's by the way i'm so happy they came back and they make him again the devil dogs are outstanding everything they make is just like it always was except for the fucking coffee cakes yeah from this platform i would like to beg drake's beg you to go back to the old formula of goddamn coffee cake they make them they used to be a lot of cake they were kind of high now they're like lower and thinner and like harder yeah they're like mostly crumb which doesn't work yeah the good part of the drake's cake if you remember from the

fucking seinfeld episode crumbly yeah it's a soft cake that crumbles and it's got the the on top was a perfect amount of cinnamon it was this beautiful fucking balance and now it's it's just messed up dude i can't even eat them anymore it's ruined i. I can't do it anymore. Well, I found out I'm allergic to cinnamon, so I can't do it anyway anymore. Fix that. Fix them for everybody else. For the next generation, please. I beg of you. You know who's not fucking up is Entenmann's, because their coffee cake in the tin is fucking

magnificent. That's a good, yeah, the coffee cake, the big one, yeah. Yeah. But it's so much. I want it individually wrapped. It goes stale in about two hours once you cut it open, so it's so much i want it i want it individually right it goes stale in about two hours once you cut it open so it's rock hard it goes it goes stale before you finish your coffee pot yeah it's like it's over racist man racist man used to buy those day old and that was a

it was touch and go yeah you'd have to you got to eat that bitch fast she's like there's coffee cake eat it eat it eat it like it's. Like it's hardening as we speak. So, uh, Antimans is crushing it. It's just, uh, once it touches the air,

it's like blood. It's about to dry up. It's fucking done, man. But God damn it. Those devil dogs are just beautiful. They're just beautiful things. So this guy,

Gary Bergeron, just with a truck full of wonderful gorgeousness here. An actual hero. A real hero. In that blue and white striped hero shirt. He is. He's wearing that hero shirt doing hero things. The woman who worked at the store also said that Stepney didn't have enough money with him to pay for the beer.

So he had to leave the store for a couple minutes, and then he came back and placed the beer on a newspaper that the delivery man just bought. So he's getting his wet beer on the newspaper. The Gary Bergeron, the driver, said he arrived there at about 10.30 that day because he has a log, so he knows when he was there. And a customer had put a beverage on top of the newspaper that he bought for his wife whenever he did that drop off he said the customer was a man the beverage was beer but he didn't know if that was stepney or not he didn't fucking pay attention to the guy so um anyway the truck is

seen in the in barbara's backyard sometime between 10 30 and 11 a.m as well so they're cramming a lot into this he's drank an eight pack of beer bought another eight pack of beer uh you know productive motherfucker while he drinks that's great he is so he's been out since 705 in the morning yeah doing scrap metal and drinking so the truck left her house between 11 15 and 11 30 a.m. So she arrived there, was there for a little while, then it left and then arrived back at the house between 1145 and noon. That's that's how that went. Now, Barbara, her day here will intersect these two. They say that she was last seen driving her car through the center of Bantam.

So right down by the old town green there, where she, you know, the town she lives. She was also seen in a Bantam supermarket that day and in two local bars. Yeah. Barbara likes to drink as well. Gibbons, Stepney, and Barbara here, they're all drinkers. She's passing in and out of bars.

Everybody is so busy. This is crazy how much they're they're all drinkers she's passing in and out of bar everybody is so busy this is crazy how much they're getting done i drinkers who the fuck wakes up drinks in the morning and then just accomplishes things all day that's not normal you should be asleep by 12 30 if you're drinking at 10 right at least a nap oh shit man so well witnesses that testified to seeing her later on said that uh one helen kneller of Litchfield says she saw Barbara parking her car near the Bantam Pharmacy at 9 a.m. The Bantam Pharmacy pharmacist said that Barbara bought a quart of liquor at about 9.15 a.m. And two employees in the Big Value supermarket in Bantam said they saw Miss McKitts there in the store on the morning of May 9th. So anyway, May 9th, 1979, we've been talking about this day.

A lot going on from 7 a.m. to 1230 with both these people. So she was doing that in the morning. She went home. He came over at 10, left for a little while, came back. That's the story. So at about 3.45 p.m. at the McKitts residence, at this point, William is sitting by a pond with his lovely wife, Lillian. Yeah. Drunk as fuck, by all accounts.

Hammered, but enjoying the devil. Well, yeah, you. Let's just sit by the pond. I just want to sit by the pond. Boy, those ducks are pretty. A big, crooked, moist smile. Oh, a raptor, run. Apparently there's raptors around there from the things to do.

Oh, God, it's going to peck our eyes out. So it's a newspaper carrier. Apparently, okay, the paper gets there at 3.45 p p.m which is late for a newspaper this is yeah this is one of these i'll do it after school paper boys like if i feel like like this isn't i'll get up at the crack of dawn and he's like i get to it after school hopefully they're not waiting to plan their day based upon what is going on in the world hopefully they don't like to have like morning coffee and read the paper like a lot of people did back then so no um he throws pebbles at her window to let her know the papers arrived what a full service paper boy maybe that's why it comes late he goes out at seven he

goes out at five in the morning but he's got to notify everyone their papers there and then wait for him to pick it up and he waves it's a long fucking day of paper delivery if you're doing that yeah it's not fucking grub hub you don't need to stand there and but does he already have the pebbles or is he like gathering them out of the drive you just walk it up and ring the doorbell right or knock on the door apparently the the the thing they do normally is he throws pebbles at the window wow apparently she'll be hanging out like in one particular room because it's a big house. So I guess she'll be all the way over there. She might not hear the door knock.

I don't know how it works. Fascinating. But she doesn't respond to the pebbles being thrown against the window. To the Romeo and Juliet delivery of the Gazette. Yeah. Barbara, Barbara, I have the sports section for you. So he ends up looking in the window, which seems, like I said, well above the call of duty for a paperboy. Maybe she's taking a dump.

You ever think of that? Women don't poop, James. I mean, what if she's taking a dump with the door open which women never close doors of bathrooms either they just love to you see her most vulnerable yeah women in the house are like guys are in public with peeing like we'll just we'll just piss on a tree with our friend right there like you'll do that all the time i'm gonna piss over here for women are just like in the house they never close the fucking door to the bathroom they're always peeing with it open they treat inside like we're outside yes it is real a lot of women a lot of women are open door peers and it's just i don't care but you're just like much that's interesting okay you know i feel like uh we'd get yelled at for that but never mind

hate the sound of peeing you hate the sound of peeing hate it terrible you have to do it five six times a day isn't it jesus you must really be living in hell jimmy hate it like i shiver at the sound of it jimmy drinks no liquids ever he just he's trying to dehydrate himself i try to pee onto that little ridge that little hump at the front of the toilet i try to pee on that as to not make noises because i hate it to not bury it into the water like a torpedo it's the worst noise everybody's got their thing that's a bad noise you know what i mean so that's understandable makes me uncomfortable the sound of peeing whether it's a man hitting the water or the women because they don't hit the water it's just that like weird rush of liquid that i don't it makes me

uncomfortable a couple of sprinkles every once in a while. Like, I have an aunt that won't walk on snow. Is that right? Will not walk on snow. Refuses. Will not, because she can't stand the crunchy sound it makes. How does she deal with eating chips? Because that's just inside your own head. No, it's just that snow crunch, that's only it only snows so often you

have to pee constantly so i every day that's way worse so constant battle to keep myself from shivering with discomfort oh god you put head noise cancelers on i hate it keep them on your toilet so this newspaper boy well above and beyond, throws the pebble. She doesn't respond. He wants to, I don't know, make sure she's in there. This makes no sense why this kid would go look in a window to see what she's up to. So far, his story sucks. Go away, newspaper child.

So he does that. He looks in the window and sees Barbara. Now, Barbara is lying on her bedroom floor and looks to be in bad shape. So this boy, no cell phones, 1979, he runs home at full speed. No bike for this kid. What kind of paper boy are you, first of all? Is he the one with the fucking knapsack over his shoulder? You're not going to make a dime without a Huffy kid, let me tell you right now. So he's just not. Maybe that's why it takes him so long too then he's throwing

pebbles this kid all day long that's 12 hours delivering newspapers today it's a lot delivered for not just our neighborhood just our neighborhood but you know i do it right i want to make sure these people really get the news so he looked in the window, sees her runs home, tells his mother, Margaret about this whole thing. Margaret went to Barbara's house because it's a kid and she didn't know if she believed him or not. Yeah. So she said, I'll take a look at this.

Maybe you saw, you know, we don't know. Maybe she was, she could be on her period. We don't know. Okay. Okay.

It's, we're not sure about this. Like it's a kid looking at, you don't know what that is. I don't know what adults are doing we have no idea so he she ends up looking in and seeing her and she decides oh yeah let's call an ambulance so um the mother calls an ambulance and the ambulance calls the state police and everybody walks in and tries to get into her house to get into this bedroom where they're they can see her through the window, clearly in bad shape.

They can't get to her because in the doorway, she's got a dog named Rocky that will not let them in the doorway of the bedroom. Oh, you little bastard. He's being a great dog, though. He's being a great fucker. He's protecting his injured owner, so he's not letting you in, which is fucking awesome. That's a great dog. I fell down the other day, and Frankie did that.

She hovered over me, and then Sarah came to check on me, and Frankie shooed her away with her head. She pushed her like, no, no, you can't come near him. I'm protecting him now. Let him be. He'll be okay. Hold on. He needs a minute. It needs a minute.

So eventually they coaxed the dog away and a state trooper ends up getting the dog to come with him, gets a treat or something and gets the dog to abandon its post. And so they could get in. So they don't know how much time has passed. These could have been crucial moments. If someone's injured, you don't know. So first thing the police notice when they're in there before even the dog is the smell of heavy smell of gas in the house it smells like gas he says right away nobody light a fucking cigarette nobody light a match it smells like gas in here goes over both knobs of the gas are on full blast on the stove oh like natural gas yeah like oh gas from the stove Like someone turned the burner gas on without lighting it. Just crank the gas up.

So the police officer turns the two knobs to off so they don't blow up, obviously. I get evidence, but there's also safety. When the house explodes, that'll probably ruin some of the evidence, too. Takes all of it. Takes all of it. Takes all of it. So at that point, he said the only item, this officer that turned off the knobs, the only item taken by state police during a ground search of the home and property and during a highway search was a baby Ben clock. So like a little replica of Big Ben, I guess. So what they end up finding with Barbara, she's been

severely beaten with a blunt object. Their most likely culprit there is going to be a blood-stained brick found nearby. It's like a rock. It's not exactly a brick. Yeah, it's a

white rock, two and a half inches in diameter, they said, with blood on it and, you know, human particle on it. So, yeah, that was found on the bedroom floor there. And so that's how that goes. Anyway, she's beaten with a blunt object, possibly the brick. There are five chop wounds on her skull. Chop wounds, like consistent with an axe or a hatchet. Okay. Like someone tried to crack it open like a fucking walnut. God damn it.

And just big chop wounds in there. Multiple stab wounds and slash wounds are found on her head, neck, and legs. Head, neck, down the legs. There are also penetration wounds to her genitalia as well. Same thing. These were made before death, though. Oh, really? That's something.

She's lying on her left side on the floor of the bedroom near the bed her jeans are pulled down around her ankles in a similar fashion panties though around her knees underwear around the knees this time they didn't come all the way off with the jeans there's blood spattered on the bed the carpet the walls it's a fucking horror scene in there like yeah you'd see that the kid knew to call his mom because he saw there's blood all over the goddamn place so it's everywhere all sorts of other objects there's nothing in the room that doesn't have some blood spatter on it basically it's it's fucking everywhere this was a this was a mess uh the room also they said was in extreme disarray.

They didn't know if that was because of moving, because of a struggle, because of she's selling her shit and kind of in limbo. They find under her a butcher knife. Under her they find a butcher knife. They also find an eight-ounce Budweiser beer can about 18 inches away from her on the floor as well. Okay. An eight ouncer. So the medical examiner said that death occurred closer to the morning hours than to the afternoon. So they said she's been there a couple hours at least.

This isn't like we didn't come in and, you know, oh, no, we just miss saving her. She's been she's been dead. And, you know, oh, no, we just miss saving her. She's been she's been dead. So, yeah, a the police said they're interviewing the driver of a blue pickup truck. That's who they want to talk to. Identified as being parked in front of the house, which would be William Stepney's here. But they said the driver was not considered a suspect at this time.

They know he was doing scrap metal stuff. They just want to know if he's maybe seen or talked. said anybody was coming over or you know whatever so um her body and the room that it was found showed signs of a struggle as well they said they saw blood marks somewhere where elbows were rubbed and you could see it was a struggle in there they said also uh the they said her clothes were in disarray is the way he put it at first they're very tight-lipped about everything all they'll say is she's dead she's 53 they found a brick in the house as well as quote more than one knife that could have been used on her as well that's all they said so the medical examiner comes in blunt force injuries multiple blunt force and blunt force injuries to the head and chest evidence of cuts and blunt force and stab wounds to the neck area with external hemorrhaging as well stabbing her in the neck um potential murder

weapons are the brick uh a an 11 and a half inch kitchen knife with a six and a half inch blade and, you know, a big giant butcher knife, one of those with the handle and everything. It'd be hard to use it without a handle, I guess. So the state's toxicologist said that all the blood examined from the vaginal area was the same type as Barbara, AB. Okay. Now, she had bruises also in her private area here, consistent with an attempt at sexual intercourse. Oh.

So, apparently somebody was trying to do this and the bruising and I don't know, it didn't happen, they don't think. trying to do this and the bruising and I don't know, it didn't happen. They don't think, um, they said there's also been evidence, uh, presented that the corner of a bed sheet taken from the room had blood similar to hers and possible seminal stains as well. But the tests were inconclusive because there was no sperm found. And back then you couldn't just test DNA. You needed some sperm to whatever. So the said that there's not enough evidence to conclude that she had actually had sexual intercourse, that she had been raped or anything like that. They just know there's at least an attempt at penetration and then wounds to the area as well. And that's bad enough, right?

I think that'll do probably. Yeah, I don't think we need – we don't need you to get in there. We need you to make the attempt. That's good enough. That's good enough. That's good enough to go to jail, I think, here. Also, they found findings that she was legally intoxicated at the time of her death as well. She had a blood alcohol content of 0.21, which is strikingly similar to Barbara, you know the other barbara so it's it's crazy um so uh the barbara gibbons so they immediately there's speculation among all the locals about hey this

sounds exactly like what happened to that other lady all right six years ago what the fuck is that about and that's not solved so uh you know both the thing that's similar here this is something you got to look at because i don't know shit i'm a moron okay but through all of this i end up reading and seeing a lot and hearing people that do know what they're talking about who have you know solved many many murders talk about things they look at look for one of the things they look for victimology is who's the victims because a lot of times the victims are similar and that that that helps put people together so you don't get a lot more similar than these two women like it's it's pretty crazy like i don't know if they were friends or what but uh they're both well educated around the same age two years

apart in age well educated have some money they're not poor they have nice houses they're both well-educated, around the same age, two years apart in age, well-educated, have some money. They're not poor. They have nice houses. They're both drinkers, both heavily intoxicated at the time of their deaths, both brutally murdered with apparent sexual overtones. The Falls Village, the place where Barbara Gibbons was killed, is also where Barbara McKittis was born and where she has friends and family and visits often as well. So there's a lot of connections here. It's just it's very similar. It's, you know, Gary Ridgway killed the same type of woman.

You know what I mean? You know, people kill. Ted Bundy was killing. Mostly you find a college student that's been taken apart. That's the guy to look for. kill ted bundy was killing mostly you find a college student that's been taken apart that's the guy to look for people have their types and this might be his so they're looking at that um a state police source this was at the time they still thought that they still the state police were so set on recharging peter with the crime and fucking bringing him up on trial they wouldn't

hear anything of this is similar to that. They were like, no, it's not. This is not at all like that. This isn't like that at all. Peter did that. Yeah.

No, not the one. You mean the one Pete did? No, no, no. The state police source said the two murders should not be linked necessarily. The one guy said,

there are only a limited number of ways to kill a person in a frenzy he said particularly when the crime might have sexual aspects well that's those sexual aspects that they both had it actually makes them more similar that's how you can tell they're similar right it's the same thing he you don't know if he couldn't have sex with her also because a lot of times these killers they can't perform sexually when they want to rape somebody they can't do it so then they end up stabbing them there because they're mad at them for it because it's obviously yeah it's your fault that you can't get your dick hard enough to rape somebody that's not so they do that though that's a thing that happens a lot very common so um anyway uh they said, though, they're concentrating on this right now.

And they're like, we don't want to even think about that because we basically they're saying we have that one solved already. So there's no arrest yet. They didn't arrest anybody. But the residents around here are scared shitless. There's people they're saying they they keep saying a silence to like, there's multiple assailants ever in the newspaper. It's always a silence. People are worried.

The assailants might strike again. The assailants did this, um, the gang of psychos, all of them. I don't know if a silence is just like a, you're covering your bases or what, but,

um, they also had, uh, they said the first select men of the town had been meeting with residents to discuss the murder and to try to allay some of the fears. Hey, everything's OK. Why? Because it is. Just don't worry about it.

It's just fine. OK, shut the fuck up. It's good. But you haven't caught the person who eviscerated a woman in her house. Yeah, I say what I fucking tell you. He got it out of his system relax jesus christ remember it says tourists only come for a day they leave they're gone don't worry about it it's got to be someone from out of town so uh he says relax he says that residents

tended to take everything in stride but they said that it's been quite upsetting to several people especially women living alone are very scared now yeah you think which is the people you want feeling safe especially in a big house these women if you're alone in a big house it's even scarier i would think in a rural area and the safer the single the single women feel the safer everybody feels because if you're not going to attack vulnerable women, you're not going to attack a very, very secure other people. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Now, this begins the there's a lot of bumbling in this case. This is one where I feel like as soon as they saw it, they should have maybe called in the State Bureau of Investigation or somebody who's a little bit better than some tiny town's shitheel police force. You mean somebody who's seen a dead body before? That's the thing. Or someone who's seen a dead body and actually solved the murder also and didn't try someone's kid for no fucking reason and then have no ideas after that. Saw a dead body yesterday and the perp is already arrested today. concedes under questioning later that he was at barbara's autopsy most of the day may 10th and that items seized by state police while he was gone were recorded in the log book later so he didn't oversee it he didn't log it in he didn't know proper procedure he spent the day at the

autopsy site and just said you guys know how to do that right you guys got it i'm going on lunch yeah there's a reason why one guy's in charge of the evidence because he can then tell you the exact chain of fucking custody and that's how it works so that's one of the things that got oj off was shit like that you know just it doesn't look good uh now witnesses here they said they saw the blue pickup truck uh there one witness the next door neighbors they said that uh between 10 and 11 10 30 and 11 the day of the murder they saw that one neighbor said he had seen the truck at other times parked at his market a few days uh a few houses for a few miles away he said he saw the truck

from his bathroom window and was aware of the time because he was getting ready to go to bed after having worked an 11 p.m to to 7 a.m. shift that day. So other witnesses here say that they saw Stepney at various times that day. They said that George Pierce said he was with Stepney the morning of May 9th. They met in Oakville at 7.30 a.m., drove to the junkyard where they unloaded radiators and rims from cars and, quote, other stuff from the back of Stepney's truck. He said they then picked up some sinks and made a second trip to the junkyard. That all checks out. Yeah, that's a lot.

They said, too, there's discrepancies there, though, from what this guy says and what the manager of the scrapyard says, is the manager of the scrapyard, Kenneth Scappini. His name is almost Scrapini. Scrapini would be amazing. Kenneth Scrapini of the scrap metal business. The great Scrapini. He makes it all disappear. He'll make your garbage disappear. Avocadavra.

He says later that the receipts for the day were in sequential order and receipt number 875 was for the sinks and receipt number 884 was for a load of cast iron and steel. The higher number was for the load that supposedly was delivered first. So the thing is, I'm sure the guy that he hangs out with and goes to the junkyard with probably also a drunk that's the thing so drunks tend to mix shit up yeah that's what i'm thinking don't know that for sure just a thought so uh they said that after going to the junkyard he said that he and stepney bought a six pack of beer so again more beer this morning stopped and had one each and then stepney left him at 8 45 saying he had to split the money from the junkyard with the woman so he took the beers too so that's four beers

another eight beers and then he got another eight pack god there's a lot of beers and these six pack i assume is 12 ounces real beers or it's an eight pack and he just mixed that up also. That's the other thing. We have no goddamn idea. So he said that this Pierce guy said that he gave police, gave him a statement shortly after this where he said he met Stepney at 8 o'clock, not 7.30 as he thought before. He said it might have been 8. I don't know when the fuck it was. He said either way they parted before 9

because he was walking home and was going to get a bottle from a liquor store that opened at nine, but it wasn't open yet. Here's a sign that you have a drinking problem. If you are waiting outside the liquor store for it to open so you can get booze, you're a drunk motherfucker at 9 a.m. Nope. Yep. If you're waiting outside dancing going

like i was waiting for you to get here while the guy's fucking with your key and then you go right to that bottle you want you got a problem you know what you're really early for is the meeting find that yeah so a uh john panalaitis who's a road foreman for the town of Morris who also lives on the same road as Stepney. He said he was cutting trees on the street here when he saw Stepney go by in his truck three times. The first time he was heading toward his home, which is on a dead-end street, so he's not going through the neighborhood,

between 9.30 and 10. I stopped to talk with this guy for five or ten minutes. Super sociable. He's got beers, so why not? They probably cracked a cold one together. It's a nice day. Want one of these? You're trimming trees, buddy?

Come on now. Then went down the road toward his house. He said Stepney went out again a half hour or 45 minutes later and came back at 11.45 or noon, same as the wife said. So we have corroboration on the wife stepney's wife she's telling the truth about everything that she's seen he said that stepney would frequently stop and talk and that he noticed nothing unusual about him that day seemed to be his normal self so for a guy who has to struggle so much to talk he certainly loves to talk to

people he's the chatterbox he's a social butterfly so uh mrs stepney here lillian who's been married to him for 44 years she said that uh she first met barbara may 3rd through their daughter who lived across the street from the barbara so that's how they yeah they their daughter called them up and said hey there's a big sale going on across the street over here in case you want to check it out and then william and his wife came down and they all looked together so uh uh mrs stepney said they met because barbara was selling her house and household items and that stepney's daughter was interested in possibly buying some items to furnish an apartment upstairs in her house.

She had like a spare or whatever. So Mrs. Stepney said that she, her husband and daughter were all shown through the three store three floor house by Barbara as well. She gave them a house tour because one's a neighbor. So she said, oh, you want to look around if you know anybody who wants to buy it. She's trying to sell the fucking thing. So go ahead. Knock yourselves out. Just don't leave any logs in the toilet buy it. She's trying to sell the fucking thing. So go ahead. Knock yourselves out. Just don't leave any logs in the toilet, please.

I'm trying to sell the damn thing. So Mrs. Stepney said that Saturday, May 5th, they went back to the home and bought a tailgate. They bought a tailgate. She has so many car parts. Just so many cars. Yeah, she just, it's just like a, somewhere where you take, they just stripped down stolen cars here. It's just like somewhere where you take... They just stripped down stolen cars here? Is this like a chop shop they got going on?

Who replaces the tailgate and hangs on to the old one? Who just has tailgates laying around their house? This isn't Sanford and Son. What's going on here? Unless you're running a junkyard. Why do you have tailgates? They also made arrangements to pick up some tools at another time. The tailgate was taking up the whole back to pick up some tools at another time. Yeah.

The tailgate was taken up the whole back or what? Pop it onto the truck. So on May 7th, they, she says they went back to the house and, uh, with their daughter-in-law as well. So now they had their son's wife and everybody there.

And, uh, they were buying a gas stove and a washing machine, the daughter-in-law. So that was going on there. So they're cleaning her out in a good way. So Mrs. Stepney said on the night of May 7th, Barbara and her husband also agreed that he, Barbara and her husband,

Stepney's husband, not Barbara's ex-husband. So they said Barbara and William were going to clean out the garage, sell the junk, and split the money. So that was the deal. That's what he's doing. So he picked up a truckload of junk from her house the following day. And, uh, but on the ninth, she said he left about 10, 15 was going to see her to pay her for the junk to go get another load.

He said, uh, uh, you know, she said that, or she said that he asked her to go with him. That's the other thing. That's the thing that's interesting. She said, come with me over go with him. That's the other thing. That's the thing that's interesting. She said, come with me over there. Hang out with me today. So it wasn't like she wanted to come. And he's like, no, no, stay home.

Stay home. So she said no. She didn't want to because it was a hot day. And he's going to be working in the garage. And she doesn't want to stand out in the heat, which makes sense. So she said when he returned he he came home with an empty truck at 11 45 he's wearing a gray gray work pants that from that morning that he left same ones he left with that morning and she noticed nothing unusual about him when he returned home now another one person who's investigating here they found a report that a woman said she saw barbara between 10 45 and 11

30 a.m she doesn't know if it's the day of or day before the murder though well that information's shit now kind of a big deal it kind of matters walking down the street carrying a cigar box okay okay now this woman said she was wearing a slacks a tailored shirt carrying a cigar box okay okay now this woman said she was wearing a slacks a tailored shirt carrying a cigar box walking down the street now several people have said that she said she's commonly seen walking around with a cigar box what is that about i don't know i don't know if she's collecting money for a bake sale or what the fuck she's doing but betty boop yeah who walks around with a cigar box it's very strange so that's a weird thing the first person they look at besides stepney they say you know he's not a suspect right now they really want to talk to her ex-husband

that's what i want to talk to yeah george because that's the ex-husband that's you right you know that's who made her have to sell all this shit. Yeah. So they found out, though, he was at work the whole day. No, never left. He's the regional director of the Catholic Family Services of the Archdiocese of Hartford. So, yeah, he's that and he's not there. He he said that he was he came the Saturday before the murder and said the house was under contract to be sold at the time. And they were trying to clean out the house. And his wife was also selling personal belongings.

He said that Stephanie and his wife also came to the house that day and that Stephanie offered to clean things out if he could sell them and take some of the money. And they said that they wanted him to remove some car wheels from the barn and sell them. Goddamn barn, man. Yeah. Probably cars in there. Packed full of fucking cars and museum parts. It was amazing. There's like a 64 Ferrari in mint condition in there.

Anytime you buy a house with a barn, evidently it's just full of awesome shit. Full of cars. That split window 63 vet, they got that in there. It's pretty dope. cars that split window 63 vet and they got that in there it's pretty dope so uh he said that the car wheels were among items missing in an inventory of items in the house taken the day after the death so uh they assumed that they had been sold along with other items because she's been selling shit now they talked to him william h stepney because Because George has an airtight alibi. So he says that, yeah, he'd been home. He'd been over there for about 20 minutes that morning.

He said that they matched. He said the same shit his wife said, basically. I did that. These are the times. Came home from the junkyard. Talked to that dude who was trimming trees. Did that. You know, whatever. So he said once he stopped to admire,

one point he said he stopped to admire a fisherman's catch at Bantam Lake. What? That's a nice fish. Hold on a minute. He just slams. Damn fine fish, sir. Slams on his fucking skin.

What the hell is that? What do you got there, a walleye? That thing's beautiful. Hold on a minute. No, no, don't put it back in the water yet. Jesus Christ, a nice fish you got nice fish i'll tell you what boy that is a nice fish he stopped to admire a fish that's amazing amazing then he bought the beer at the south fram package store which we know about um it took him 25 minutes to get to Barbara's house that morning after he left his house. He said

he arrived at about 10.45 a.m. He says he drank one of the eight-ounce cans of beer and gave another to Barbara. He said they talked together for about 30 minutes and she didn't have a beer right away with him.

He said he mixed her a highball first. Really? That's why he had the club soda. Yeah. So he said he mixed her a drink first, gave that to her. They talked for about a half hour. She put that one back and then asked him for a beer. So he clipped her off one of the eight-pack, gave her a beer.

So, yeah, anyway, he said, you you know i left at seven in the morning i went with george to the junkyard and george george george of the junkyard we went there that was great uh did that they said that uh you know he's told more about he goes into detail about uh selling things in exchange and it's all the shit that matches his wife's stuff here. So a state trooper said that at his home on the day of the murder, Stepney told him that he had met Barbara through his daughter the week before, which matches up as well. Stepney had been to the house four times, the whole deal. He says that Stepney gave her $20 when he got there from the sale proceeds,

returned home, and stayed there for the rest of the day, which is what his wife said. He also said in another interview later on at the state police barracks, he said he gave her $25 for the junk and came home about 930 and arrived at her home about 930. So first he said, I got there between 930 and 10 and stayed for five or 10 minutes and gave her $20. Then in a later interview, he says he got there at 930, five or 10 minutes and gave her 20 then in a later interview he says he got there at 9 30 stayed for 20 minutes and gave her 25 so they're like those are huge discrepancies they are the ones one bill one several bills well one's 20 and 25 and 20 though or some shit that you i don't know if i gave her 25 or 20 i don't remember difference yeah whether you gave her a single 20 you know what i mean well to say i was there for 10 minutes or 20 minutes i got there either between 9 30 or between 9 30

and 10 like those are it's very those are all very close you got to get those to right down to the second though when it comes to a fucking police interview the problem is in reality though people don't remember that stuff that's a good point that's why things in murder investigations don't always line up perfectly because people aren't perfect they're just not it's they'll forget they don't know you know plus he's an old drunk yeah yeah that's a good point yeah he's drunk all the time i don't know 20 25 i don't remember what the fuck i gave her did i spend that five on beer did i give it to her you know you know you don't know uh so they said that he he said he returned home about 9 a.m stayed for 10 15 minutes then went to the post office which was another curveball thrown in there we didn't know

about said he arrived at 9 30 stayed for about 20 minutes like we said so uh he was seen during that time he said that uh he in his interview with the police this is the official sit down interview he said he mixed her a drink with club soda got got a beer for himself from his truck. He also gave her twenty five dollars from the junkyard. The receipt says it was forty three dollars. So he's saying I gave her twenty five and I kept eighteen is what happened. That's what he ends up remembering. So he says he went directly home after that. So he says he went directly home after that. Now, the police officer here that's interviewing him asks him where he left his beer can. And he says, I don't know. I can told him that a beer can was found next to the body. We found a beer can there. And he said, well, after she finished her drink, she wanted a beer.

So he went out and got her one from the truck. So then the cop asked him, this is interesting. Why would a liquor drinker want a beer? Yeah. Which because she likes to drink. I don't think she cares. You know, who knows what the fuck. So anyway, if she's got that much in her already, I don't think she really gives a shit what she's drinking.

So why would a liquor drinker want a beer? But he got pissed off and at that point said he wanted a lawyer and stormed out of the interview room. He's not nitpicking too much shit. Yeah. The one cop that was there who was watching the interview said that his reaction to the beer can, quote, became pretty angry. I can't say violent, but my initial reaction was that he was going to hit Trooper Kavanaugh. Really? Now, they said he was not a suspect at all until until that point that's what they literally tried to say we needed him to freak out over something he was only the only person that

had seen her that day but he was not a suspect yeah not a suspect at all until he got pissed about the beer can that's the only reason they say that is an excuse because these fucking morons, and I'm going to call them fucking morons because there's a woman horribly murdered. These fucking dipshits tried to trick him, I think by not reading him his rights. So he wouldn't think he's a suspect. So he'd be more relaxed. You have to tell someone you have your,

your rights. And then a lot of people go, hey, am I a suspect? You go, well, we don't know yet is what you say and stuff like that. So we just have to find out. If we say those words, he's going to know damn sure. Exactly. Then he's going to start thinking of an excuse. Now we want to surprise him with questions.

So anyway, they said that he wasn't a suspect till after the beer can incident. And then he walked out. So no need to Mirandize him. They asked a guy pointed questions about a murder investigation without fucking reading him his rights. Brave.

In 1979. It's just stupid. It's just terrible police work. It's fucking awful police work. Terrible. No other way to put it but bad fucking police work. They said that he was cooperative giving his finger in palm prints.

No problem there. The only time he got pissed was the beer can incident. He got real mad at that. When you start bringing evidence from the crime scene into just a chat, sure, somebody's going to get mad at you. I thought this was a casual. You were going to ask me how the fishing was in Bantam Lake. I was going to say I saw a guy with a beautiful walleye the other day that's a report the catch so the blood they have dr henry lee here by the way who is the most famous blood guy there is yeah he does all the big cases

he uh said that barbara had been in the blood group. They said the victim's blood here is ABRH negative, so AB negative. Stepney's blood was B positive. Blood stains, which tested as AB negative, were discovered on the inside of a pair of green work pants seized from Stepney. Inside. Inside. Not the ones he was wearing that day, though, because he was wearing gray ones that day. On the sole of his canvas shoe, also a drop of blood.

And then on the steering wheel of his truck, they found some smeared, little bit of smeared AB negative blood. So I thought, I'm like, well, how common is AB negative blood? So I looked it up. And here's, how common is AB negative blood? So I looked it up and here's the common commonness of blood types here. O positive, the most common 38% of people have that. This is in the United States. A positive is 34% of people. O negative 7%, B positive 9%, 9%, A negative 6%, B negative 2%, AB positive 3%, AB negative 1%. Wow. So her blood type is 1% of the population. That's her blood type.

That's tough. Whereas his blood type is B positive is 9%. So that's pretty common. Anyway, he said- Is that common? That's not very common at all. I mean, 1 in 10 is not unusual. That's pretty common anyway he said that's not very common at all i mean one in ten is not unusual that's reason reasonably common no one in ten well if you can if there was only three blood types and one of them at ten percent that's a little bit but they're all except for the

o positive a positive all the rest of them are pretty spread out and nine percent is the most is the third highest one there is point yeah so, yeah. Yeah, I just mean like that. So a plurality. So we'll call it that. So in his opinion, Henry Lee, blood stains on the pants were contact stains. That is, a leg with blood on it came in contact with the pants. So he said there was blood on his leg and it came in contact with the pants. He also said a smear of AB blood was found on a steering wheel from the blue pickup truck,

which they saw at the house. Obviously, other items of clothing have been identified as being taken from the house, such as a pair of black socks, a tank top and a towel that had no blood on them. Lee also said a number of items identified as coming from the Barbara's house had AB blood on them among those items were a kitchen knife a knife blade and a concrete brick murder weapons also a hot water faucet from the kitchen sink had ab blood on it as well oh you'd want to wash yourself off after you've just you know cut someone's throat so from the items presented here, he identified no other types of blood. So it was only her blood on shit.

He also said fingernail scrapings from Stepney showed blood, but there's too little to make it even an idea of a type. They couldn't get a type on it. So the fingerprint specialist testified that none of the fingerprints, none of the fingerprints taken during the investigation belonged to Stepney. None of them which is super weird that he's in the house for a half hour hanging out by anybody's account and he made no fingerprints yeah none it also says that that beer can probably wasn't the one he was drinking if uh it was by her head and it had no you get fingerprints on a can when you're pretty easy yeah especially an eight ouncer you can't hold it with your palm you hold it with your fingers yeah hold it with your fingers you get fingerprints on it because

it's too small so uh they said they found 64 fingerprints were found on objects in the home of those 12 belong to barbara 34 were not clear enough to be identified so that's possible and 18 were identified but not stephanie's They were other people, friends, kids, ex, all that shit. Hairs from Barbara's dog, Rocky, were also taken by state police october 7th and they said that they were uh trying to figure that out he's not arrested till july 6th 1979 okay they arrest him he's arrested uh there and um anyway he he's known as the driver of the blue pickup truck and all that kind of shit. He he had he he's he's a rain. This is crazy. He's a rain and the step knee was remanded to the custody of the correctional center on a hundred thousand dollar bond. Keep that in mind.

That's how it starts at first. They said he appeared ill in court shaking his head and breathing heavily he had to sit down during the reading of something because he just couldn't do it that much because he's got a heart condition but he doesn't he can fucking stack scrap metal and take it and fuck he can throw rims around i don't understand that that seems like hard work i don't want to do that work and these you know this guy's an old man with a tracheotomy. So the grand jury, they get a grand jury going to try to indict him here. And they said that they end up, there's some legal shit. He ends up being indicted. He immediately entered a plea of innocent and asked for a jury trial.

The grand jury voted 16 to 2 to indict him. So two people didn't even want to indict him. It was seven witnesses, four hours of testimony. So the bond comes up. After the indictment, state's attorney asked that his bond be raised. He's held on a $100,000 bond. But instead, this is fucking crazy, the judge said, actually, I'm reducing it to $500. $500.

Everybody's got that, right? At least 10% of it. You can dig it up somewhere. Sell some scrap metal. I don't know. Fuck. He argued that Stepney had showed himself to be trustworthy by his presence in court. He showed up so far and his history indicated no inclination to

flee that's terrific but you think he fucking butchered a woman so maybe you don't want him out there on the streets with the chance to do that again maybe there's keeping the public safe is one thing yeah but he's allowed to remain free on a 500 bond trial comes up here. Okay, here we go. Trial time. First of all, there's a request for police files of murders similar to this stabbing in the area. This was rejected by the court as too broad of a request to get that. These murders of hit of the two Barbaras are excessively similar, disturbingly similar.

So not just the, the, the occurrence, but the fucking people. That's exactly. If you could carbon copy a murder, Jesus. Yeah. The only difference is stab wounds being some being post-mortem. Yeah, that's the only difference. So his attorney, Stephanie's attorney, he said that he wants all this shit. And the judge said no.

Jury selection began here for it. And they said it could take two weeks to get a jury here. Seems like a long time. Some legal wranglings quickly here. team that the defense team told the judge that the defense team would need some time to study all shitload of evidence that the prosecution began turning over. It's like my cousin Vinny. They started overwhelming him with fucking evidence and paperwork. The evidence includes 40 separate statements by persons questioned by state police. Personal items seized from Stepney during the investigation.

Photos. Medical shit. The judge said that he would give them time to examine the evidence and all that shit. So the defense told the court that they filed a petition with the U.S. Supreme Court. Indicating he intends to file an appeal on his client's behalf, challenging a state Supreme Court ruling, upholding the legality of instructions that were given to the grand jury that indicted his client. So they're fighting the indictment. That's how fucking hard.

This is a public defender that's fighting an indictment. He's going real hard. That's hard, man. That's wild. That's a good employee right there. Wow, that is a really good fucking public defender right there. He's like, fuck trial. I know, fuck that.

We're challenging the grand jury process. The grand jury's the one on trial, not my client. That's tax dollars well spent. No shit, man. Jesus. Testimony comes in this trial here. The defense offered evidence into, offered into evidence.

Finger and palm prints taken from Stepney trying to show what extreme lengths they went. He's the only person they fingerprinted, by the way, in this entire thing. Yeah. So several forms of clothing, and they fingerprinted him before he was a suspect so that's pretty funny several items of clothing they said were among more than 50 pieces of evidence

presented to the jury they uh only a couple of uh cops testified on the first day the clothing included two pairs of work pants black socks a soiled white towel. Ew. Soiled with what? What's on it? It's not blood. I know that. Stay out of my hotel room. I'm grossed right out when I hear about a soiled white towel. That could be anything. Oh, no.

And a white plastic bag that contained handkerchiefs, socks, an undershirt, and a bandana, which is similar to a handkerchief. So I thought they're kind of similar. Yeah, it's just how you use it. I think that's more of how you use it as the way it becomes. Also, among the items from Barbara's house were oak flooring with a red substance on it from the threshold of the doorway into the bedroom where the body was found and a newspaper also with a red substance on it that was found under her also presented were three eight ounce budweiser beer cans found about the house photographs entered as evidence they showed a similar pan lying next to her head obviously and a uh so they said that he had bought the thing and they connected all of that these are the cans he went and bought them so that's how they're building their case here.

Several photographs of fingerprints. The fingerprints were not identified in court. Also, they presented the steering wheel. They brought the steering wheel in with the blood on it. The defense attorney here, he challenged the state troopers as to their procedures investigating the murder. He's got some points here, by the way. Questioned the one cop's testimony that he conducted a cursory search of the second and third floors of the house and took no photographs there because, quote, it didn't seem relevant

at the time. Oh, boy. Asking how he could tell it wasn't relevant. Now, photographs are one thing. I know police will do like you don't want to overwhelm the lab so because then you don't get good results so what you want to do is if you think okay the struggle happened here and here and here that's the that's the place you're going to vacuum for fibers that's the place you're going to do all that you're not going to say there's some unused

bedroom on the other side of the house let Let's comb that shit with a fucking. They don't have enough people for that. No one does. Not enough time. So try to keep it to shit that matters. But photographing things to show that this is, you know, the struggle was only here kind of would make more sense. So you could then show the court. We looked everywhere.

This is the only place we found anything. So it's an easy point to win as a defense attorney um they also presented items from the kitchen sink in the home and uh the defense questioned why other items such as the contents of the sink strainer and a sponge in the sink were not retained and the cop said that they didn't think those items were relevant so you have a sink that has blood on the fucking handle that obviously something was washed in. You didn't think to grab the fucking strainer. Yeah.

And the sponge that was in the fucking sink that's collected all sorts of fucking physical evidence in it. Yeah. Are you joking? That's not relevant. It's not. We're not worried about that. That's terrible. Again, terrible, terrible fucking police work on that one.

You'd at least do that. Grab the sponge. It can't hurt. So the defense also introduced its first exhibits, including photos of the rear of the house showing a tire impression on the grass and a footprint under the rear porch. They said that the state police did not take a plaster cast of the footprint. Why? I don't know. And it was found, I guess, near a window

or near under the rear, by the rear porch, like in a place somebody might have popped up. And it was too big to be Barbara. They knew that. So who knows who that is. They also introduced into it, but she's got an estate sale and there's people traipsing all over the place too,

so who knows. The defense also introduced an it, but she's got an estate sale. There's people traipsing all over the place, too. So who knows? The defense also introduced an evidence notepaper with writing on it that contained phone numbers and, among other things, a list of household items that appeared to have bloodstains on it. Bloodstains in a corner and an address book of Barbara found on the kitchen table. book of barbara found on the kitchen table in uh the cop said he didn't believe it was determined whose handwriting was on the notepaper or that the phone numbers and the names in the address book were checked so you have it's by her it's in her house ask around is this your mom's fucking handwriting you get a christmas card every year is this what it looks like yeah yeah that what it looks like okay that's terrific check that out then if there's a goddamn address book on her own kitchen table she's the

only fucking person that lives there maybe start asking people hey you see anything here's a bunch of people we didn't know about that know her who knows it can't hurt it can't hurt to do that. That's what it is. Who cares if it's nothing? It might be something. At least it shows how thorough you were. It makes me feel better if I'm a juror that this was a thorough investigation. The attorney, Stepney's attorney, constantly questioning the state police procedures and investigating this whole thing. He also had State Trooper Nicholas Valerio on the stand, and he's the guy who had to turn off the gas stove when he arrived.

Under questioning, he said he hadn't tried to determine who had turned the stove on. I don't know how he would determine that at that moment. And a state trooper also testified a different one, that the knobs top and front of the stove were dusted for fingerprints and no latent prints were found. Pointing to the investigation, which the defense attorney said was a complete failure, they did not measure a footprint found outside the house, didn't do a cast, failed to analyze a cigarette butt found in the kitchen, which is an interesting thing because neither of them smoked.

So Stephanie or Barbara. So why is there a cigarette button there? Way the defense attorney asked the jury, quote, Are you satisfied with the quality of the investigation used to point the finger of accusation at Bill Stephanie? Which is a fair question, I would say. used to point the finger of accusation at Bill Stepney, which is a fair question, I would say. So the estate trooper under cross-examination from the defense, this is James White, he said a bloodstained piece of notepaper with names and phone numbers hadn't been checked, like I said. Also, her daughter, Barbara's daughter, Alicia, identified the handwriting

on the notepaper as that of her mother and also identified some of the names on the paper so she said yeah that's my mom's shit maybe should have checked it out probably or asked her she also said the names in the address book had been discussed by the family with state police so they were trying to say hey you wanted maybe you want to look at these people that she knows possibly they're like nah not relevant because they didn't ask they didn't do it we got a guy we We're all right. Yeah. The family went to them. Here's some people you should check out. And they went, dah.

We're good. Like a drunk would. Yeah. Dah. That's exactly what I just, I waved it like a drunk. Dah. You want a ride home? Dah.

I got it. I'll crash it in a pole on my home. I got this. So they bring in Dr. Henry Lee again. He's the state's chief forensic technician at this point. So this is what he was doing in 1979. He said, okay, that disease could change a person's blood type, affecting blood type tests such as those conducted on clothing taken from the home. tests such as those conducted on clothing taken from the home uh the doctor here he says that for example when a cancer of the white blood cells when when is it when there's a cancer of the white blood cells could change a person's blood type is that okay that's what he says i knows more than me

about blood but it's 1979 too so who knows if that's bullshit now. He also identified blood found on a shoe and a pair of work pants taken there. Lee said that the results of the blood type test could be affected by contamination of dirt and other matter as well. I get that, but this is kind of like the OJ thing. This is one point of the OJ thing where they're like, okay, contamination of a blood sample doesn't make it someone else's blood that's what they said it's not like oh this is someone else's blood but i got dirt in it and and now it's now it's oj's blood all of a sudden it changed the molecular structure of the fucking blood so it might render it useless to the investigation exactly it doesn't make it someone else's yeah yeah that's probably not right yeah so uh anyway they said the results

could be affected by that under further questioning though lee said the control test done on other parts of the same shoe were negative for the presence of blood the defense lawyer also prominently display displays a pair of black socks tank top towel and several white t-shirts taken from the home in which lee said there was no blood stained a dirty white handkerchief with stains that lee identified as blood and mucus was also displayed lee said the blood was human but there wasn't enough to determine the type blood and mucus on a rag for someone who had larynx cancer of his throat would probably cough and have bloody coughs and there's probably all kinds of shit coming out of that thing all day. Yeah.

Photographic slides of a piece of skin from Barbara's back that bore an ink mark from a ballpoint pen were also studied in cross-examination. That's really weird. Why does she have a pen mark on her back? Maybe she scratched her back. I don't know. I've seen people do that. Their back, they just like scratch it real quick. Maybe she did that.

Maybe. Who knows? So I've seen people do that. They just like scratch it real quick. Maybe he just did that. Drag the pen back there, maybe. Who knows? They said that he said that he found the ink in the pen and the ink mark similar after a chromatography test, but said he could not confirm that the pen nearby was the one that made the mark because it's a BIC. Now, the state rests after more than three weeks and 42 witnesses. Oh, my God. This is an overwhelming thing. And I don't know who has any information.

That's the thing. Other than how many people can you get to say I saw him at the fucking grocery store at 930 when he says I was at the grocery store at 930? Okay. We all agree to that. Move the fuck on. Like like one person is enough to say that so instead they talk to everybody the they uh finish all of this shit as the state rested the court denied a request by the defense attorney to uh that just said can we have an acquittal right now can we do like a court like throw this the fuck out on the grounds that the state failed to establish that stepney was at the scene of the slaying at the time of

the slaying uh the jury was excused from the courtroom while this was going on and the defense attorney argued that no one had actually identified stepney as being at the scene rather the state's witnesses have him all over the place they have him coming going being here being over there nobody said drinking here inspecting fish yeah it's checking out your fucking walleye they never yeah he it's not a matter of uh they don't know that he knew when it's just it's hard to say this they don't know exactly when she died so they can't say exactly whether he was there or not it's difficult all they know is closer to the morning than the afternoon right which would line up to when he's there but i mean it's one of these things where seems an awful lot like he fucking did it you know what i'm saying like he did it let's be honest

but he definitely did it but what a terrible investigation talk about taking a fucking slam dunk and turn it into a into a three-point shot from half court you know what i mean like what are you doing man they fucked this up bad so meanwhile um the uh the defense fund set up to help pay his legal fees had about 750 in it at the time because he's got this lawyer he had a public defender and then he got this too, that the family got to pay for after a minute. So his wife said that, or his daughter said, I'm sorry, that the fund was started after many concerned people, friends, acquaintances, and even strangers asked how they could help Stepney out. They said that the defense costs have put a financial strain on the entire family. She said Stepney's home had to be mortgagedaged and it's to be sold now so they can pay for the legal fees.

It costs a fortune to defend yourself. Yeah, it's not easy. It's expensive. So his wife and doctor said, you know, they talked about whether he'd be able to do it or not. But then all of his physical ailments get overridden by the fact that he was slinging scrap metal, like I said. So that's a tough one here.

They're challenging the validity of the blood findings. They challenge everything here. Dr. Robert Shaler, who's a blood specialist in the office of the chief medical examiner of New York City, testified that it was possible that B negative type blood when combined with calamine lotion. Oh, could present itself as negative as a B negative blood. Is that right?

Now keep that in mind when you have the mosquito bites. Holy shit. So the defense presented evidence and testimony that, that Stepney had poison Ivy around the time of the murder and four days before had purchased Caladryl, which is calamine lotion, shit you rub on for poison ivy. Stepney testified he'd been scratching the poison ivy, causing it to bleed. So that's why he has bits of his blood in some places. So they're saying that this might just be his blood mixed with calamine lotion. Now, Henry Lee said that AB negative blood was found there, and the state attempted to

discredit the claim of poison ivy when it called as a rebuttal witness a pharmacist at the Crutch and McDonald Pharmacy in Litchfield who gave Stepney a receipt for Caladryl he brought on May 5th, 1979. She said she recommended the medicine because he complained of bug bites and said that she couldn't recall complaints of poison ivy. Either way, the calamine lotion's on his skin, so it doesn't matter what he has. He's wearing it one way or another. Yeah, so the prosecution's witness, they brought another one up here they testified that uh lillian said she told one of the police officers she fought with her husband the night before and the morning of the murder over his splitting the proceeds of the sale of junk with with her um

anyway five week long trial wow that's long six-woman jury. They deliberate for three and a half hours on a Friday, but do not reach a verdict on a Friday. So about 8 p.m., the jury asked to hear testimony about statements Stepney made to state police the afternoon and evening of May 9th. So the judge met with attorneys and told the jury it would take about three hours to read the direct testimony and cross examination at about 8 30 PM. The foreman told the court, the jury believed the testimony important enough to have it read, but wanted it to be dismissed for the night. And they'll resume on Monday. They, uh, they resume that, um, they do all that. Uh, they start also, they asked for, um for um uh sent out a message asking for a slide

projector and slides of shoes taken from stepney's home and a steering wheel from the truck so they want to do all this they end up having seven uh hours and 15 minutes of deliberation in all okay four hours on monday yeah and he is found guilty yeah of murder here so he is found guilty um they he goes they let him and his family down in some room and uh the state assistant attorney said it's not appropriate to comment at this point it's such a tragic situation all the way around uh One of Barbara's daughters, also Barbara, she said, quote, I'm grateful he's been caught.

It wasn't easy. So that's pretty much all they could get out of that. Now, the bond, which had been $500 during the trial, was raised to $50,000 by the judge after, because he's found guilty now.

So they're like, you know, let's force. Yeah, right. Yeah, so the prosecutor said, can we raise it to $75,000? The judge said, let's do $50,000. So we'll compromise. So the change in bond was unnecessary, the defense said, because the chances of him fleeing are nothing. He's not going to flee.

He's got medical problems. He needs, you know, whatever. He's got a hole in his throat. Yeah, exactly. But now that it's over, the prosecution says the situation's different now that the jury's convicted. Now he's a murderer before he was just, you know, accused. So the first bond was set at 75,000. An hour later, the defense told the court it appeared that Stepney's family could raise about $4,500.

So he asked that the bond be reduced to 50. That's how it got to 50 with a 10% and not an all cash. Wow. So then the judge said, sure, fine. Stepney was let out of the fucking cart that night. Wow. So he's convicted of murder and sleeps in his own bed that night, which is insanity. They ask him outside, you know, hey, did you do it?

And he said, quote, all I can say is I didn't do it. I swear to God, that's it. And he said the same thing during sentencing as well. Um, so, uh, yeah,

same thing during sentencing. And they tell him, you, sir, may fuck off. Yeah. 22 years to life in prison. That's heavy.

That's heavy. 22 years to life. It could have been the maximum was 25 to life. So he got 22 to life. So that's heavy that's heavy 22 years to life it could have been the maximum was 25 to life so he got 22 to life so a little bit i assume yeah i assume age and health had something to do with that i can't imagine looking a man in his trach hole is easy to tell him you're gonna die in prison i looked him right in his trach hole and i said we're gonna execute you so uh really i mean five years is pretty much executing that guy right no i would think he's gonna live in there with that shit no shit so uh they said that the defense asked that the bond remain in place so that he could remain free

while they appealed the judge said no you're not doing that no he's got to go to jail now he's convicted for christ's sake we sentenced him for christ's sake you know so stepney sat there he had his head bowed and uh he's trying to cover his face a little bit there and uh his wife as soon as he was sentenced his wife ran out of the courtroom i'm sorry his daughter ran crying. Both these families have daughters named after the mother, by the way. It's so wild. He is a junior and then he's got more juniors and they have daughters who are juniors. It's crazy. She ran out and cried, quote, this is so unfair.

They've got the wrong man. That's what she said. So anyway, the assistant county state's attorney here didn't suggest a sentence, but asked that asked the judge to consider the ordeal of the victim in the pretrial ordeal of the family. She also asked the judge to pay no heed to the defense claims that Stephanie's an old man weakened by heart disease and the removal of his larynx, which forces him to breathe through a hole in his throat. So don't worry about that. Now, post-conviction here, in 1990, the Connecticut Board of Pardons, because he's in for that long, 22 years is his sentence. He has some appeals, but they don't go anywhere. In 1990, though, he is the oldest of the 1,400 prisoners at Summer State Prison at this point.

He's the oldest guy on the block, and he's also, at this point, the prison hospital staff has put his condition as, quote, very poor physically. The sickest. The sickest, super sick. Because if you're not healthy, jail's a bad place for you because everybody you get more sick in there yeah exactly so uh the parole board at this point said that he is not a danger to society and they release him from prison in 1990 there uh with time served here they commuted they commuted his sentence they didn't just not even parole him yeah they commuted his sentence. They didn't just parole him. They commuted his sentence to time served. Free man.

Done and fucking done. Wow. So, wow. Relatives of Barbara were very angry about this. He ended up actually, he didn't get tried until 84, the trial went on. So it was like six years. He was out on bail that whole time. Wow.

So he only did six years in prison. So he didn't like sit and wait for four years or anything like that in jail. So, you know, when someone's out on bail, they love delays at trial. Yeah. Keep it. Fuck it. Fuck it. Yeah.

Keep motions. Do it up. So anyway, they're really pissed off. The they said, quote, the sentence was the punishment for what he did. It's not conditional. The judge didn't say this is your punishment if you can handle it. Like, you're fucking sick, but that sucks. You're going to die in jail.

That's the part of your sentence is what they're saying. The relatives gathered at the Capitol to at this point, though, later on, by the way, totally separate of this. They let him out. Barbara's relatives become hardcore anti-death penalty people is that right absolutely yeah they gathered at the capitol to urge a speedy passage of a death penalty repeal bill they said if our legislators really care about us then they'll get rid of the death penalty once and for all that is elizabeth who is barbara's daughter isn't that curious so they said nearly two dozen family members at the news conference stood in support of ending capital punishment.

They had photographs of their murdered loved ones. They were like, we're the murder victims' families and we don't want this. So anyway, they said that the last execution in Connecticut was that of a rapist and strangler Michael Ross who was killed by lethal injection in 2005 and before that the last person to be executed was in 1960 Wow. Took 50 years to do it again. With the electric chair. Wow. So

the daughter said quote take us off this roller coaster of endless appeals in a state where no one gets executed but where families of murder victims have to keep getting dragged back into court for decades for no real result. That's the truth, too. So they said this is her thing. My name is Elizabeth Brancato and my mother, Barbara McKittis, was murdered over 30 years

ago, May 9th, 1979. To be exact, we got to give them their say here. This is familyism. They've been fucking ignored by this whole system here. My mother was 53 years old when she died. She was brutally beaten, raped, and bludgeoned to death in her own home. Her death was horrible, and it was a horrible loss for those who loved her. Death is difficult enough to deal with, but death accompanied by this brutality is a whole different thing.

This kind of death leaves behind living victims. This kind of death leaves behind living victims. Today, I'd like to talk to you briefly about how the criminal justice system in general and the death penalty specifically further victimized the families of murdered victims. I experienced the nightmare of being trapped in a criminal justice process. For five years, my family and I endured the trial and appeals process of my mother's killer. Throughout this period, I was completely unable to deal with the huge emotions that were flooding over me. This pain, loss, and confusion I experienced in the wake of my mother's murder were too big to handle, and I also had to navigate the legal system. when it was coming, made it impossible to try and take the time to grieve and heal. My healing was put on hold.

The uncertainty of when it would be over made it necessary to postpone attending to my grief, my pain, anger, and all the other emotions that such a brutal loss creates. Only after the trial was over could I begin to process my emotions and take care of myself and my children. My children were 8 and 11 years old when they lost their grandmother. Although I tried to be there for them and I worked hard to help them through this, they continue through with grief and fear. She said there was a letter signed by over 75 Connecticut murder victims' families states the reality of the death penalty is that it drags out the legal process for decades. It's the promise that goes unfulfilled, of that so they also talk about how the where

is it that uh i guess the uh the cheshire home invasions were around then too and that brought this and those were bad we do that but they're very famous and also pretty gross so it's too much yeah uh so he served like we said in less less than six years. So the whole family backs that. The one here said, quote, I will admit that for some time after my mother's murder, I had angry, vengeful thoughts and wished my mother's killer dead. I thought I wanted vengeance and justice. What I really wanted was to have my mother back and not to have to think about the horror of her death. to have my mother back and not to have to think about the horror of her death. Gradually, I came to believe it would dishonor my mother to kill for her sake

because if we really believe it was wrong that her life was taken, then it would also be wrong to take another life. Rather than being a way of ending violence, I see the death penalty as a part of a spiral

of never-ending violence. So that's her say. She's got to let her have her say. Her mom got fucking butchered. So 2002 comes around and uh william dies so okay that's only 12 more years he lived 12 more years and he died that's crazy he got almost 20 years out of life with a trach hole that's crazy more than 20 years he got 24 years or so with a trach hole stunning and part of it in prison imagine the gunk that gets in there in prison you got to get a q-tip and clean that shit out there's all sorts of shit particles and semen

flying around it's disgusting now uh george barber's ex-husband he lived to be 86 he died in 2013 there uh he died uh as well he was in tucson when he died. Poor bastard. Jesus. Not only did his ex-wife get murdered and he died, he also had to live in Tucson. So horror is all around. Live and die in Tucson. Oh, the horror. The horror. The injustice.

The injustice of it all. 2020, Elizabeth, who's the daughter that talked a lot, Brancato, who had that whole thing. She also lived in Tucson. She passed away on December 18, 2020, of heart failure. Oh, no. Yeah, she was older, too. I mean, she was in her 60s, I think, as well. So, yeah, she's got grandchildren and everything.

So, yeah, that's that. He ended up dying. Everybody's dead. Yeah. It ended up dying. Everybody's dead. Yeah. It's a mess. No solution and no closure for the other Barbara. No, but that's the fucked up part. Yeah.

Barbara didn't get shit really for out of this. I mean, poor fucking 1973 Barbara got who gots. So that's fucked up, man. It's still messed up. It's still open um the son was spearheading the investigation once he was cleared um that poor kid man think about that poor kid he walked in found his mother like that especially and in a tiny community they arrested him as if he doesn't have that hanging over his head for the rest he had to move too right he had to i hope but i mean he stayed around trying to fight for that and he was uh you know he was He doesn't have that hanging over his head for the rest. He had to move too, right? He had to. I hope. But I mean, he stayed around trying to fight for that. And he was upset when all the DNA tests didn't yield anything from anybody else.

And so there's a lot of people, a lot of investigators who aren't complete fucking morons who know how to catalog evidence and the like who absolutely think that william did both right um just because it's too similar similar yeah it's too similar geographically they're right there absolutely now i don't know because we didn't get real like a we didn't go into like his sexual history and all that sort of thing but i would i'm getting a real btk vibe off this guy i'm getting like a an absolute btk vibe from him like he's got that thing where i feel like also there's alcohol involved too i feel like alcohol gets involved he likes a certain type of woman i feel like he tries to come on to them i feel like they you know they're yeah he's trying to ply him with booze which isn't hard because they're drinkers anyway

thinks he gets them there they go hey you're the scumbag metal guy. I'm not fucking you. I'm a rich lady. And then he gets mad and kills him. That's what I think happens. I have a lot more going on than you, dirtbag. And then he kills him. So I think that's what happened anyway.

That's my thoughts on the whole thing. It's a good theory. I think he did both personally. It's way, way, way too similar. If he didn't, think he did both personally it's way way way too similar if he didn't then somebody did both somewhat yeah that's i mean they're so similar you can tell me that they're not similar because this little detail is different this little detail is different but if you actually hear an interview with a serial killer they'll tell you yeah those little details don't matter to me i'll try something new maybe i'll try doing this after they're dead this time maybe it's before right that shit because they didn't catch

they didn't connect a bunch of btk's cases for a while because one was manual strangulation and one was with you know some sort of inside pantyhose or whatever so they go oh had to be different person the strangulations were different look at the totality of it, though. Right, yeah. The torso killer in fucking New York was very similar. They didn't connect it for so long, because little things are different. But it's all... Little things. The signatures are still there.

And BTK just said, it took a lot of effort to fucking strangle someone with your hands. I didn't want to do that again. That's why it was different, because it hurt my hands hurt afterwards. Pain in the ass. Yeah, so huge pain in the ass. So anyway, that is Bantam, Connecticut or Litchfield, Connecticut

or whatever. God damn. A couple of murders that I think one guy did. Who knows? We'll see. Poor Peter. I feel bad for him still and I feel bad obviously for both barbers in this situation. Either way, there it is. If you like that episode, great way to tell us get on whatever platform

you're listening on and review the show give us five stars our fish say something nice tell us what your favorite condiment is please tell us how our walleye is god damn it so just comment great perch i pulled me out of crappie this morning. Do it up. That would be good. Great perch is nice. I don't have a trout around here. That is a fine-looking smallmouth you got there. You can do that about a bass.

There's a ton of stuff there. What is that, a brook trout? It doesn't matter. Give us the review. Also, if you have ideas for cases, please don't send them all over. One spot we have to do that, research at shutupandgivememurder.com, and we'll kind of gather them up. Also, you can send, if you're a crime and sports listener, you have criminal athletes, send them there, too. We'll put them on the list.

Please, nobody that had, like, one DUI just because you don't like them. I can't do an episode about that. Yeah, we can't do that. They got to be a scumbag, wild story, crazy shit. If you have them, research at shutupandgivememurder.com. So get your tickets to live shows.

Yeah. God damn it. Speaking of shutupandgivememurder.com, that's where you go for tickets to live shows. You can also go to momenthouse.com slash smalltownmurder. For the virtual live show. Virtual live show, February the 10th, you can also go to momenthouse.com slash smalltownmurder. For the virtual live show.

Virtual live show, February the 10th. And it's going to be available for 72 hours after that. Holy shit, that's next week. That's next week. If you miss that night, you can watch it another night. Or you can watch it multiple times. If you're too drunk or stoned the first time, you're like, I don't even remember what happened. You're like, Jimmy, we can do that.

We'll get that all going for you. So that is shutupandgivememurder.com, virtual live show. It's a real episode of Small Town Murder, whole episode, the visuals, lots of stuff. Have fun and do it up with us. Come and party with us, goddammit. Also, get your tickets for the live shows throughout the year, too, as well, because there's a bunch of them out there. I'm telling you what. So do all of that.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is popping this week. We got it going on. Anybody $5 or above you're not going to just get access to just the Small Town Murder bonus. You're going to get access to that and the Crime and Sports bonus which rarely

have to do with sports. There's never any sports in them. If it's about an athlete it's just some crazy shit they did. There's no time for sports in a bonus episode. Get that right now. Anybody above those, you're going to get access to everything. This week for Crime and Sports, we have an imposter story, which

we love. We love somebody fooling people and saying that they're someone they're not. This is a guy that fooled the college football program into thinking that he was a freshman, not a 24-year-old who had already played four years of college football. And so he comes out, dominates,

and really, really fucks a school up for a while once he gets found out. So that's a lot of fun. And his lies and shit, it's funny as shit. And then as well as that, we also have for small-town murders, Deadwood, South Dakota, kind of a legendary lawless. It's legendary for being lawless. You know what I mean?

Right. Lawless pioneer mining town. And it came open about 1876. And if you've seen the show Deadwood and Al Swearengin and all those guys. Well, we'll talk about the newspaper that came out then because they had a newspaper right away. I found the archives of it. It is just documenting the early days of Deadwood. Talking about Wild Bill Hickok getting shot.

Just killings in the streets. People being found dead. People getting trampled by livestock. There's crazy, insane shit going on in this town. And we'll tell you how does a crazy pioneer mining town start? We'll go through it and talk about it. It's going to be hilarious, all about Deadwood. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

In addition to that, you're going to get a shout-out, which we'll do in a minute here. Jimmy is going to mispronounce your name while trying his very, very best to say it properly and correctly. But he'll fail, and we're going to love him for it. So you can do that. Or if you just want to get the shout out. And of course our undying love and affection, you can do that over at PayPal as well. Using our email address,

crime in sports at gmail.com. Do all of that. If you want to follow the show on social media or at murder small on Twitter at small town pod on Facebook at small town murder on Instagram. That said, God damn it, Jimmy, hit me with the list of the people who would never ever bring eight-ounce beers over to our house and then stab us in the vaginas. Please,

good God, that's horrible. Hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Tracy Mitchell, Melissa Turner, Jordan Bennett, and happy birthday, Abby, whose last name will soon be Whitney. Thank you guys so much for everything you do it's really staggering

other producers this week are Caelan Bancroft, Corporal Carl Kirshner Scott Boogerstein Peyton Meadows Berkley's Gulp, Chunky Chartreuse Trout Bait good stuff works terrifically I understand

Chartreuse baby Elizabeth Mweech Woody I think she goes by Trout Bait, James. Yeah, see? That stuff works terrifically, I understand. I'm telling you. Shark Shrews, baby. Elizabeth Mweech Woody, I think. She goes by BMW. It's much easier that way. Big Ed's Missing Neck, James Marder. Robert Shea Bully. Shea Bully.

Mark Pruitt, Barry Fartstein. Oh, for Pete's sake. Mark Pruitt, I said that. Otome Brown. Isn't that Whoopi goldberg's name in ghost otome brown is maybe that's possible i think it is tiffany whitley possible happy hour in uh midland texas this week uh frank the south african bird watching whore damn samantha puckerbrush puckerbrush bur Bergu Quigley Whore.

Evidently. Yeah. That's a mouthful. That's a lot. Christina Brayton, Janice Hill, Hannah Berkner, Justin McNeil, Charity Leith, Blue Whiskey, and Hudson up at centennokennels.com. Cool. Phirologist Brittany.

That's somebody that gives animals haircuts, I imagine. Cool. Jeff Shrewsbury, old native man who helps dances with vapes. That's somebody that gives animals haircuts, I imagine. Cool. Jeff Shrewsbury, old native man who helps dances with vapes. Oh, yes. Travis going to Titans games with Andrew since the 2 and 14 season. That's it. It's a long time to put up with that shit.

Frank, the alpha South African bird washer. Oh, he's in charge now. Mike Mondragon. Mondragon. Mondragoon. Marta McCammond. She's crowdfunding for help for her friend's infant with SMA. If you can help her, find her on social media and give her a hand. Yeah, do that.

Marta McCammond. Mary Ireland. Yvette Anaya. Katie Davies. De Jesus. Yvette with no last name. Danielle Alari, Jared Evans, Erland Un,

no, Tommy Not a Scientist Thorstensen, Steve Cummings, Iona Iona Montanaro, I think, Heidi Sinsley, Celeste Warlick, Dammit Bobby, Dammit Bobby, Matthew Lee,

God, I'll tell you what, that is one of the best shows ever made. What an amazing, King of the Hill is terrific. Angela Pagan, Rob Sargent, Lisa Marie, Nancy Colley, Joseph Temple, Jessica Quire, Kyle with no last name, Hannah Buckley, Hannah with no last name, BSA, Uzo Hughes, Paul Williams, Alex Schaefer, Danielle with no last name, Sam Coakley, Chandra Thomas, Red Royalty, Andrew Melizia, Mary Byrne, Jamie Austin or Jaime, Quiggums, Squiggums, Krista Johnson, Chantel Long or Longy joe conrad uh laura evans aaron bradford kitty white kimberly nyquist lynette chambers becky eickhoff uh jillian with no last name anthony littlefield justin sick fez disturbed isaac deeds nuts probably not kenneth sovi i think danny fucking k i threw the fucking in there because his name is Danny K. That's amazing. Patrick with no last name. Danny fucking K.

Fapton Cantastic. That's pretty good. Kimmy Dale. Jacob Jackson. Mother Truck in America. Brandon Drake. Reanie. Reanie Depoy.

Jeannie. Jeannie Burry. Zara Green. Rhiannon JP. Devin Felon. Tiffany W. Matthew. Nope, that's Maggie. Jax. Jax. Jaxy, Allerhead, Patrick, Patricia, Patricia Reed, Jennifer Brooks, Holly Parr, Graham Turner, Bug with no last name, David Jones, Rebecca Mitchell, Merle Rodriguez.

That's awesome. Jade Boyd, Ryan Adams, Chaney with no last name, Michael Potter, AJW, Red Ape Cinnamon. What? High oil content? Do you know what that shit is? I don't know. No, I don't know no i don't know bola matt uh blake would no last name eric dixon and lauren hirsch uh tony tony phoebo uh bethany parsons clara lee lie

probably zubida uh mary nolan aaron astrea jacob fosters sean rice star uh satyrs satyr saturnson.com tick TickleMyFanny. Oh, boy. In England, that means something different. John Ayers, Amanda Alexander, AS, Scott McCoskey, Justin Wilson, Matt McNeil, Tiger Keime, Ben Robinson, Chris Bell, Ashley Dembski, Robin Long, John with no last name, Brian Kubiak, Josh Smith, Mackenzie Johnson, Christopher David Mitchell, Ritesh Bhandari, Sasha Kendall, Stupid Flanders, whatever that means. Jennifer Johnson. No, that's Jenny Johnson. Thank you, Jenny.

It's a very easy name to pronounce, evidently. Alicia Johnson, Logan Datchler Thank you, Jenny. It's a very easy name to pronounce, evidently. Alicia Johnson. Logan Dachler. Oh, boy. Will Sargent. Kelly Baralewski. What? Jen Devlin.

Chad Reikensperger. Greg Jim. Tabitha Gill. Israeli. Israeli Miranda. Lisa Akers. Emily Godbout-Westerberg. What?

Oh, boy. Tiffany Zeiss, Maria Kirshner, Ryan Boutellier, Adam Ciampi, Michael Anderson, Jennifer O'Regan, Tina Nativo you so much, everybody. For everything you do for us. We are thrilled by it, and we only hope the bonus episodes can show you how amazingly thankful we are for everything you do for us. We are thrilled by it and we only hope the bonus episodes can show you how amazingly thankful we are for everything like that. What if people wanted to be thankful for you, Jimmy? How might they tell you about it? When you're thankful,

just wish upon a star or some shit like that. It's not bad. It's enough. You guys are so nice and you go out of your way for us every week. You really do. Thank you. We're terrible at self-promotion, but it's because we don't matter to this you do so thank you if you care enough

you can google the show and find us that's it google small town murder we're the hosts we're the only ones and uh you can find us on there follow us i don't know when you're over at shut up and give me murder.com getting your virtual live show tickets you can explore it from there find all the damn links to everything that That said, with all of this shit, it's been a wild adventure and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

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