Small Town Murder - #265 - Dirty Desires In The Backwoods - Tellico Plains, Tennessee

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

This week, in Tellico Plains, Tennessee, when a teenage girl goes missing, the search take investigators deep into the backwoods. When she is finally found, she happens to be in the main suspect's backyard. This leads to a tip, that chills everyone to the bone... She wasn't the only one. The killer turns out to have a very distinct signature of wrapping denim around the victim's heads, and a seemingly unending hunger for teenage girls. Just when it seems settled, he escapes jail, and disappears. The last hope of finding him rests on the tv show, "Unsolved Mysteries". Will he be found, or stay free to kill even more. Along the way, we find out that things work differently in the backwoods, that 26 year old men should never go to high school keg parties, and that you should never trust teenagers to keep your murders a secret!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Teleco Plains, Tennessee, multiple teenage girls are missing without a trace, and there is one particular backwoods home that may be able to provide some answers. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, everyone, so much for joining us. If it is your first time, welcome. Welcome, welcome. If you're coming back for episode 265, welcome back 265 times over.

Thank you so much for joining us, everybody. We have an absolutely insane show as usual today. This one, holy, wow. It's just a bad, bad person. Whenever we have someone who's particularly a bad person, it always makes for a real interesting episode. Quickly, a little house cleaning up here at the top. First of all, reviews help. So all those reviews, whatever app you're listening on, throw a review at us.

Five stars helps. Do that. Head to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. Live shows all set up. Looks like Chicago and Minneapolis are sold out again. But people can return tickets. Keep checking. Keep checking.

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bonus episodes the whole back catalog you name it you get it this week no different two episodes for the crime and sports episode which of course you'll get access to we have uh i read this book about a man who has spent he spent 15 years on this theory countless amounts of money you know near bankruptcy the whole deal to investigate and his theory is well the name of his book is quote oj is innocent and i can prove it exclamation point so time well. This is where the Jason Simpson theory came from as OJ's son. And he has... Oh, my God. No one has ever investigated anything more than this man.

And we're going to talk all about it. Trust me. It's convincing. It's wild. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to do one of our favorites. Every few months, we have to revisit it when a season is over. Oh, God. We're going to wrap up Love During Lockup and talk all about this season.

God, is it good. The wildness. You don't even have to have seen the show to enjoy this, I'm telling you, because we will describe it to you. It'll come alive and live in color for you. Trust me. Do that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of that

and a shout-out at the end of the show where Jimmy will mess up your name horribly while trying his best to get it correct. You just want to make a donation and get that shout out. You can do it at PayPal using our email address. CrimeandSports at gmail.com. Right. Disclaimer time. Oh, boy. It's a comedy show, everybody.

It is. We're comedians. Now, obviously, there's going to be jokes even when there's horrible murder. Now, that said, we're not making anything up. So it's funnier or better or anything like that. Every drop of these stories is real. We wish it wasn't. We wish we could just make up crazy murder stories and that would be fine.

Unfortunately, they actually have to happen. So what we do is there's certain things you tread lightly on. There's nothing funny about somebody cutting someone's head off.'s hard to find a joke in there so why bother you don't do that what you do find is you can make fun of a murderer trying to get away with something that's pretty funny if like a police force interviews the same guy nine times and goes i don't think i just don't think bob's got it in him to kill that's funny that's ridiculous you know that we'll make fun of things like that but what we don't do we go got it in him to kill. That's funny. That's ridiculous. You know, that we'll make fun of. Things like that.

But what we don't do, we go out of our way not to do, is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? It's because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. That's it. That's how that goes. So if that sounds good to you, we have a crazy-ass story for you.

If not, if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, ever go together, maybe you don't like the show. Maybe you will either way. Don't complain later. Thank you. Right. That said, I think it's time,

Jimmy, let's sit back. Let me say clear the lungs. Let's do it. And let's shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy.

All right, let's go. Come on a trip. Shall we? Let's do it. We are all right let's go come on a trip shall we let's do it we are coming from long island last week yeah we're in new york out on long island uh for some teenage debauchery and just a fuckery a gaggle of dirt bags is what that was this week this week we are doing some this is stevie um stevie wonderful whites of west virginia level hillbillery is what we're going to talk about this week um it is some seriously crazy weird shit this is teleco plains tennessee teleco t-e-l-l-i-c-o it better be teleco it better not be like talico or something i'm sure

they call it something weird but it's teleco to the civilized universe. That's what it is. Teleco Plains, Tennessee. Have you ever heard of this place? No. Me neither. This is one of those like, I don't know. It's in southeastern Tennessee, severe southeastern Tennessee in the panhandle of Tennessee where it goes up.

That whole state is long. That east side, though, has a pronounced panhandle coming up there. And, you know, where it goes into North Carolina. Right. Is it eight states that border Tennessee? There's a shitload, yeah. Because this, you could get to Carolina, you could get to Alabama real quick if you go over to Georgia.

There's a lot around here, borders. There's a red spot on the bullseye for fuckery. Yeah, that's it. on the fuckery dartboard put your fuckery here in the in the middle hit if you can hit it with one shot i'll tell you what you win this is about six hours to memphis so it's that's on the other side of the state it's about three hours and 15 minutes to nashville so it's it's it's in the sticks this place it's remote yeah about an hour 15 to knoxville and about an hour 45 to whiteside tennessee which was our last tennessee episode it's been a while everybody here it was episode 209 so that's a while 54 56 episodes ago you want one of her bones was the that guy remember when he offered somebody a

woman's bone you want one of her bones huh the hell this is particularly not really this is in monroe county area code 423 the motto of this town it couldn't be any funnier if if we sat down for a week and brainstormed and came up with something hilarious real couldn't be any funnier than this, and this is absolutely real. Quote, the little town with the big backyard. I can't. That is the most amazing. She sounds hot.

That's what I mean. That's petite with a big backyard is what it's saying right now. Like that's, that is fucking hilarious. The other. Gonna need a long train on this wedding dress well the other motto sums it up i think this is like you know this is what the locals know this one you know what i mean it's just quote back that ass up so

you know it's a it's very little town of juvenile have you i get what they're saying they're saying there's nothing around it so it's a town and then the whole woods and all the hollers are your backyard it sounds like you're trying to make me fucker it sounds like i i hear like stripper music start to play yeah you want to put a dollar in that thought. Come here, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to put a dollar in your underwear because this town has a big backyard. I like it. The dump truck in Tennessee. The Tennessee brick house. That's what they call it.

Tennessee birthday cakes. The little town with high school team the tolico plains birthday cakes they are they're messing everything up they're missing out on a lot of opportunities so uh quick history of this town the late 1800s there was a gold rush here. Is that right? Yes. This was a little Deadwood. Absolutely. A little hillbilly Deadwood. Weird. The nearby Coker Creek was the site of a minor gold rush here. Now it has like a gold panning tourist attraction.

Like, come see where they found gold. And you come and they have the pans set up. And you go, I found something. And it's fake. And they give it to you. Meanwhile, a nugget fell out of somebody's pocket while they were crossing the river yeah like there's gold in the river well they that's the thing sometimes there's tiny gold deposits places and when somebody found the first nugget 10 000 people would come there and there was no more gold it

was just they heard it's not like you could google it and be like oh no no never mind hold on i was just not i was scrolling through instagram they said it's all dried up now. Never mind. Fake news, you guys. It's not. No, nobody. It's not possible. Back then, it was like your cousin heard from a letter he received that took a month to get there from somebody else that heard six months ago from, you know, somebody who lived in the town that there was gold there.

And then you were coming. That's how it worked. So they can explore, though. You can go there and explore gold mines still, though, and in the surrounding hills. And they said the mines are all fucked up, though, and it's not really much to look at. There is commercial gold mining there. At least one private plot located to the southwest of the tourist attraction is an actual working gold mine. Wow. Yeah, just not giant veins of it like you know other places where it's widespread the um teleco plains area in the uh early 20th century became the base of operations for

the babcock lumber company yeah oh boy they i guess they had all the logging around there and uh they finished all the clear cutting and and then they basically knocked all the trees in this joint down. They came in, completely wiped it clean, then sold the land to the U.S. Forest Service. Now there is no more forest. And they've been working since then, since 1920, to rebuild the forest. Reforest. They decimated, yeah. So it's interesting. Even then they were like, we need more trees here, Jesus.

Remember when there was trees around here, right? Those take a long time, you guys. Shit. Wow, it's just not growing. I water it, it's just, I don't know. Maybe my grandkids will like it, I guess. My grandma already threw out the table she made out of this shit shit yeah we need a new one fuck reviews of this town there's a few here five stars here's one boom i moved to teleco plains tennessee in 2013 from illinois

this small town in east tennessee is a great community with very friendly people i would have to say the only thing i would like to see changed here is for more things for children to do, such as a community center for the children to do things at to steer them away from drugs and crime. Other than that, this is a great place to raise your family, other than them having nothing to do for a positive outcome, except for drugs and crime. Okay, but great, otherwise. Everyone's friendly at the grocery store, though, so that's perfect. Three stars.

Teleco is a small town with hardly any newcomers. That's not surprising, except for that one reviewer. There are very few things to do in the small town, such as go to bald river falls or travel the skyway exclamation point wow being someone who has lived here all her life teleco is boring with not very many opportunities fair three stars river now here's two stars here okay this is a newcomer not many of them here so it's good that we get to hear from one. Two stars. I've lived here for a year now. It's a rural town with a lack of motivation for students to get out and pursue a life outside of agriculture or the family business. Schools have negative students whom only are there by law.

Drugs are everywhere, being done in bathrooms and sold out of lockers. Oh, man. It's fucking. Sounds like high school. I was going to say, it's my high school. Jesus. The town is very closed-minded and offers nothing to its community. The only positive thing is how close the town is to the mountains and nature.

All right, there you go. So we're getting a view here of what this town is? That person sounds like they regret the move. I don't think they like it here at all. And there not a lot of people population 909 so i mean wow it's a small town it's isolated there isn't a lot to do there you know if unless you're if you're into farming and you like it and that's what you're doing great it's a great place for you but if you like to do shit and your kids want to do stuff, it's a rough place to live. Way more females than males.

I don't know if all the males are. It seems like the type of place where they're all like OD'd in the mountains or something. I don't know, but it's 56% female, which is way high. Fascinating. Normally pretty even. The median age is a little bit high. It's about 42 here. A little higher married rate than normal um 29 are single

with children which is one of the highest single with children we've ever seen i like it anywhere yeah it's that's i mean it's it's party town you can go there it's some uh you go down to the bar you're gonna find some single parents wandering around on a tuesday night and if one hot guy or one hot woman uh gets a divorce oh a lot of the a lot of the unhappy fucks are getting a divorce just with the chance of being able to marry that person how long does it take to burn through town when uh when hot little suzy with the big bet with the big backyard gets divorced what happens then yeah it's gonna be it's going to be a heavy divorce season. Heavy, heavy.

Race in this town, 96.5% white. Oh, my. Yeah. Now, keep in mind, this is in Tennessee, North Carolina, like I said, Alabama, Georgia. There's a few, I would call it a few black people in this area. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of black people in these areas. 0.0% black.

Wow. That almost sounds on purpose, huh? I don't know. It sounds, I mean, and for both sides, the black people are like, I'm not going there. Have you seen? They're crazy up there. It's not on purpose by the town. It's on purpose by the folks that don't want to be there who knows i don't know it could be just uh not us

i don't know whatever but that's that's a telling stat uh 1.6 percent are native american which is higher than normal and uh 0.9 percent uh hispanic so it is just, it's very white. Uh, religion here is 65% religious, which is, you know, it's the, it's a rural Southern town. 53% of the people here are Baptist. Wow.

As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. And we found that out cause we went from long Island, which was like 60% Catholic to this being so Baptist 0.0% Jewish or anything like that. This in this county, Monroe County, last election, 18% of the people voted Democratic and 81% voted Republican. My word. Yes, it's a pretty, pretty one sided election time here. The cost of living 100 being 100 being regular or average,

here it's 77. So pretty low. It's the middle of nowhere. It makes sense. Housing is a 47. Median home cost... So cheap. Median home cost 142,100 bucks.

Oh, yes. Very cheap. So if we've convinced you you need a slower, slower pace of life, we have for you damn it the teleco plains tennessee real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here goes for 651 bucks which is oh my about half the national average there as cheap as it gets uh so

some of these houses here um there's not a lot available really it's a town of 909 people where there's not a lot of newcomers so there's not a lot of turnover not a lot of turnover of real estate and not a lot of like new construction this is like getting packers tickets like season tickets like someone has to croak um you gotta wait for them to open up ownership yeah these are all in the woods all these houses uh here's a two bedroom one bath 720 square feet so it's a little place it if you pictured backwoods you know not a great house this would be the one where you just picture it there's shit in the yard there's an abandoned car like off to the side and some i'm serious and some overgrowth it. There's shit in the yard. There's an abandoned car off to the side. I'm serious.

And some overgrowth. It's not great, man. A little sketchy, huh? A little sketchy. $79,900 for this thing. Don't scare yourself to sleep. You definitely will. You're going to hear things outside

and hope it's an animal that's come to eat you. God, I hope that's a raccoon. I hope that's not tree people coming to get me. Here's a three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,400 square feet. It's a log cabin is what it is. It has a nice bathroom in it. One of the bathrooms is nice out of the three. The other are pretty average.

It has a fishing hole out back. So you have your very own little spot to fish in out back. This is awesome. That's pretty goddamn cool, but it's got a lot of land too. 519,000 bucks for this. This is like someone's summer-like place where they come

for a week when they leave Nashville or whatever, I feel like here. This is where Tarantino gets away from LA. Yeah. I got a place in Telco Plains, Tennessee is where I got a place. You know what I mean? I like it. There's a slower pace of life.

You know what I mean? Slower pace of life. I like it. There's no sign out there. You can write the N-word on a yellow legal pad over and over and over again all by myself. I put a sign on my lawn, no dead N-word storage. I put it out there just so people know it's me. You know what I mean?

They know it's me. Otherwise, why am I there? They're never going to know. You've never seen Pulp Fiction. That sounded very outside of the norm. It's pretty well perfect. Pulp Fiction, if you've seen it, you understand. Here's a three-bedroom, three-bath.

This is Tarantino's cabin. It's a log cabin again. These are both log cabins. Big stone fireplace. Big deck where you can look out into the woods. Sounds beautiful. It's really nice. 2,432 square feet.

Three-bedroom, three-bath. $785,000 for that. Oh, my. A little pricey. A little pricey, but that's what you get. So, not bad. Things to do here um i tell you what not a lot there just isn't a lot going on just not a lot there's a lot of outdoor stuff go out

in the mountains and you know shit like that and avoid the sound of banjos but wake up every day and hope that today is the day that tarantino writes your town into one of his movies maybe maybe that'll be the one. Unfortunately, it'll be like set in 1855, and you're like, ah, damn it, now we look even worse. Shit. He said the N-word 7,212 times in this movie. It's not good for us.

It doesn't look good. There's going to be a band called Blank 7,822 now. Oh, my God. By the way, if you're upset about us making fun of this backwoods town no listen to long island last week i think i was way more savage on them than i could ever be i will always be worse for about my own people than i will ever be toward anyone on the outside put it that way so the one thing the charles hall museum sounds exciting doesn't it um he was the teleco plains mayor for 31 years justice of the peace for a while the museum there's two museum buildings uh they feature his quote magnificent collections

of historical memorabilia artifacts and equipment and equipment such as guns, antique telephones, coins, currency, photos, and so much more. So much more, not just pictures and shit from this guy's garage. All this old shit. This guy's garage sale, and they're like, what if we put this in a building and charge people? They have 330 historical firearms, a 450-year-old matchlock musket. That's pretty cool.

You could just take a look at it on Google. I don't need to drive to the hills to see this. 1776 Brown Bell musket, a 1824 Harper's Ferry rifle. So, yeah, all sorts of shit here. Oh, 30 and 50 caliber machine guns. Neat. Anyway, the first bank safe and deposit boxes here. They're also their sound and music machines.

They have 1887 Edison phonographs in here. So it's like it's an old it's a weird museum. Yeah, it's very cool. It's like this guy's attic is what it is. It's fucking Charles. What the hell is his name? Charles Hall's attic is what it should be. Fascinating. It's very strange. A lot of house and shit was in it. Have a's Attic is what it should be called. It's fascinating.

It's very strange. I bought a house this shit was in it. Have a look-see. Have a look-see. Oh, wow, there's some cool shit in here. It's not bad. If you bought a house and all this stuff was in it, you'd be like, awesome, there's some cool shit in here.

People might pay a quarter to see this shit. Yeah. You know, like my house, I got it and I had like that truck, like that, what was it, like a brush guard for like a 56 Ford we figured out? Like that was, that's kind of cool. I think it was older. It might even have been older. Yeah, like that's kind of cool, but this is a lot of shit.

It'd be cool to find. So a crime rate in this town, damn it, what we're interested in. The property crime here is just below the U.S. average, actually, which is, I mean, there's not a lot of people, so it's hard to steal from people that know you. That would be very difficult, as we find in these towns. It's so few, yeah. It is. But the violent crime in this town, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault,

the Mount Rushmore of crime, is actually above the national average by a little bit, about 10% high. It's great. Great. Look at this. They're really killing each other out there in the mountains. Hey, rock on,

man. Yeah. I don't know why that is, but whatever, whatever it is, that's what it is. And that said, let us talk about a murder,

Jimmy. Let's do it. Everyone. Um, this murder here, there's murders. I should say, um,

we got to go back in time a bit here to 1978. Okay. And we are going to go into the home of a guy named Joe Arlen Specter. Okay. How's his attic? His attic is full of amazing memorabilia, Revolutionary War era rifles and muskets. You may or may not have Satchel Paige's mitt up there somewhere. They have Satchel Paige's first jockstrap up there.

It's pretty amazing. It's his first. He was like nine. It's made of lead. It's difficult. It's just made of leather. A little hot there on those southern hot July afternoons, but you know what? That's how good of a pitcher Satchel Paige was.

He fought through it and still was throwing shutouts really was hoping for some night game schedules oh man let's play one at night for christ's sake jesus ball sack they say we get one on their lights oh man please i'll pitch in the dark i don't care anymore for real they are rotting away in there so uh 1978 we have to go back to joseph arlen shepherd is his name he's born in 1952 so he's 25 going into 26 this year and um one thing there's a lot of uh discrepancy in this case in spellings of names for some reason between books newspapers court documents articles other court documents we're talking right and how they heard it victim names his name ages range a great deal by the way for years there's articles that say he's 30

that's something here i'm like no i finally found he's born in 195, I finally found he's born in 1952. So I know he's born in 1952. But yeah, it's crazy. So he's not the brightest guy in the world. Let's just say you can this house. It's they live. It's a backwoods house in the hollers here. He is the youngest of 11 kids. Oh, my.

And he's the baby. He's the baby. So the youngest of 11 kids has to fight for everything. Yeah. That's tough. You're the kid in the wire that Wallace is like, share with your brother. Like, shit, you're the smallest. That's wrong.

Yeah, you're just running between legs looking for actual crumbs. Yeah. You got to hope, like, you have a couple older siblings that, like, take you under their wing or something. You're really shit out of luck there. So this is Backwoods. He's the they're very poor by the way because you want to have 11 kids when you're super poor as well yeah why not i guess i mean that goes both ways you can either have it might help because you're broke well it might help yeah if you need opportunity yeah you need like if you have a farm, then yeah, you're stocking your farm. Yeah, you are.

You're helping your business at that point. This is the hillbilliest of the hillbillies right here. This whole situation. He is. I'm going to let you guess what grade he dropped out in. Sixth. Third. Oh, boy.

You said sixth and thought you were taking it to an extreme, didn't you, Jimmy? I went fast. I was quick on the draw and said he finished elementary. He's like, it's elementary school. You'd have to finish elementary school. It's pretty easy. Third grade. Oh, my God.

That's about enough. I think I've seen enough third grade, right? I think I can read. That's a dummy. Three times three is nine. All right, I think I'm about good. I'm done. That is not great.

IQ in the mid-80s the which is the low average range. It's not good. It's like the very bottom of average. So he's he you know, he can function and do things and, you know, whatever. He's fine. But he's not the brightest guy in the world to put together. You wouldn't go into if if someone came up to you and said, I have this great business idea. You know, I have a plan.

Do you want to hear it? And it was this guy. You'd probably say, no, I think I'm okay. Probably not. But you can certainly make some money off him telling him something is priced at $4.99 or two for $11. Absolutely. He's like, oof, I better get two then because that's gonna i mean i'm i'm gonna be smart for once and stock up

never can be too prepared for once i'm just gonna stock up and i'm gonna be the smart one because i kick myself in the butt every time like asshole why you do that why you do that um now he there's a a person that went to that was a kid with him says that uh there's a lot of he's got a lot of brothers obviously yeah and um apparently joe here um of all the brothers was the biggest dick out of all of them he was they they only say like people around there go there's good shepherds and bad shepherds that's how there's so many of these of the there go, there's good shepherds and bad shepherds. There's so many of the shepherd clan that there's good shepherds and bad shepherds. Like the whites.

Like there's a guy in Minnesota, he's doing great. His kids have braces and things are going well. And then there's the one that's going, Dennis is this. While he's jumping around drinking a two liter bottle of Pepsi. Flipping off the camera with both hands. Kicking meth needles out of the way of his path. P.S., that was one good white.

Yeah, that was one good. That's true. There was a white that was living decent. One white had it figured out. Apparently, there's a couple more decent shepherds, but definitely picture the white clan when you picture the shepherd clan from what I from what I gather here from what I've gathered from everything. I wasn't there, obviously. But now this one girl said that Joe would throw rocks at the little girls that were neighbors. That was a thing that he did.

One time she said, though, they were her and a friend were both on a bicycle and somebody on the handlebars. And Joe, who was, you know, these girls were in high school and he was should have been in high school, but didn't wasn't in high school because he dropped out in the third grade. He met up with the girls. He saw the girls and he was driving a car, by the way. And we don't know teens teens at some point um he swerved toward them and hit them hit them with a car while they're on a bicycle and uh the one had 17 stitches in her in her head from flying off the handlebars and cracking her skull open so that's hilarious yeah that's great isn't it isn't

that nice so What the fuck? So these are the types of things he does that never get charged with crimes. That's just crazy stuff that happens on the mountain. You go home and go, that damn Joe Shepard hit us with his car and I flew off. And they go, that damn Shepard assholes.

And then they get him stitched up and that's that. You don't call in the law. It's the way of the hills here. It's just not the way it works. As a dad, you don't go, you almost killed my child. I think you either settle it yourself, I think is the way it works. You either go over there with a shotgun and make it work it out, or you shut the fuck up. Or you take it on the chin.

Yeah, I think that's about it. And you tell everyone what assholes those dirty bastard the chin yeah i think that's about it and you tell everyone what assholes those dirty bastard shepherds are you gossip about it in town uh at 17 years old joe joe steps it up a notch to actually things that need that are charged by the law here he is charged with assault with a knife in 1970. So he's escalating from throwing rocks at little girls. He actually got somebody, like stabbed them or just like pulled it on them? I don't know. It's 1970, so who knows.

But assault with a knife. So that sounds, either way, it's bad. You can't, it's not good. He hit a girl with, two girls with a car. With a car. First rocks, then a car, then a knife. You know, anything's possible. First rocks, then a car, then a knife.

You know, anything's possible. Then two years later, he's arrested for breaking and entering and larceny and possession of a pistol. So now he has a gun instead of a knife. And he's breaking into things. Oh, boy. So this isn't good. He apparently, by the way, was known to pull pistols on people all over the place. It's just a thing Joe does.

He'll pull a gun or a knife on you, no problem. That's just, you know, that's just what those crazy shepherd boys do. You know, they pull knives on you and guns on you. I don't know what this sounds like. I don't even know what this is. I don't understand what these people, first of all, he was a teenager. I don't think old enough to have a license when he's driving around hitting young girls with a car. This is just complete crazy lawlessness up here. I picture everyone walking around with no shoes on.

Like that's how, when you say shit like this of how everything is, how else can you picture it? A white shot his uncle because his uncle said that, reminded him that his dad was dead. Yeah. He shot his father. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. How do you not shoot this kid for making stitches in your daughter's head? You know?

Who knows? How is this kid still alive? I assume her dad was taken by the mines. That's all I can imagine. He died of the black lung back in 64. I don't know what happened. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback

Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early

and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts this is unbelievable it's pretty fucking amazing so he uh gets he ends up in jail he goes to the monroe county jail in madisonville tennessee for a while, which is very nice here. So he's in the Monroe County Jail for his breaking and entering and larceny and possession of a pistol and all that stuff here. And on May 2nd, or I think it's May 2nd, somewhere around late April or the first days of May 1973, he escapes from the Monroe County Jail. Yeah. Which I imagine is a very small building with not much red wire. No, no.

We're going to find out back then these jails, these small town southern jails, and this is from the sheriffs themselves are going to say later on, were not staffed very much. There would be, you know, they might have three deputies and two are out driving around in cars and you keep one guy back at the station to look over the prisoners that's it there's no this was not a brazen well thought out like meticulous paper mache bodies and no this isn't yeah wire cutting bars it was none of that shit it was drove the door still open i'll leave then he blew the gate the front gate open with the laundry van you know what i mean and drove out and that's how

they all escaped no that's not one of those or like ben kramer in crime and sports they had a helicopter swoop into the yard drop a line and fucking carry him away like that actually happened on a crime and sports episode with the helicopter crashed into the fucking guard tower it's hilarious the whole thing's hilarious. But this was likely. Oh, shit. Y'all. He didn't lock this.

Yeah. Yeah. One of those. He's recaptured in Dallas, North Carolina. Like, come on. There's already one of those. Much bigger. He had been he was sentenced to two years before that and so now

it gets worse so anyway he's out of jail by 76 wow this is his young life though we're talking just to go over youngest of 11 of 11 dirt poor third grade dropout yeah not a great iq not very not the brightest guy in the world throws rocks at little girls hits children with a car while he's sure not even old enough to drive pulls knives and guns on people all the time and now has escalated to breaking in places this is a oh and escaped from jail and then out of where he's supposed to be also escape from jail there's a certain mentality to the jail escapee yeah most people when they're in jail they're like all right fuck i'm in here what i need to do is do whatever i can to get out of here as quickly as possible especially if you're serving two years he wasn't in there for life like i got nothing to lose

motherfuckers goes out in a blaze of glory he's he's gonna do his time and get by and get out and you're fine think about the need for the immediate needs that this guy has like think about the the not being able to control your impulse the lack of impulse control that this guy displays when you're sir when you get two years that means you might do a year but probably not even that for that sort of thing and especially at a young age when you're 18 this motherfucker's like no no i need to get out tonight right now he's not even living they say you can either live in the present or live for the future you know what i mean you spend every dollar now or you save and you and you set yourself up he's not

even doing that he's no living for money that he already spent two days ago he's living on old receipts i had money if you look here before i went to the hardies i had money so it's it's he's not not doing well here this is impulse control is terrible and all his crimes pulling pistols stealing pulling a knife on someone these are all like hitting someone in the car yeah their lack of impulse that's an impulse that if you have normal people their brains go no no don't do that right that's not good you'll get caught and then you know b if you do a b and c will happen this guy just is like hey as he fucking runs people over his life is a multiple choice he's just answering a every time and you never pass the test when you answer with a no no ever ever c is known as the most

popular answer but you jump around a bit who knows don't just abacadabra there you go. You never know. You never know. So in March of 1976 is, you know, things start going a little weird for him here. He and his wife are been having troubles here. His wife's name is Kathy, and he's been having some anxiety with here so as a result he goes to see a psychiatrist which i'm actually impressed with right yeah i was gonna like this for this guy he wasn't just like i feel i'm feeling anxious i better go rob a 7-eleven like that well i'm gonna go rob me a 7-eleven right now god damn it that'll relieve my tension he went to see a just a decision? Wow. He decided on his own to see a psychiatrist, which I am, hats off to you, Joe. Good job. Yeah. At the Overlook Mental Health Center in Madisonville. And the doctor thought his anxiety was pretty bad, so he gave him Doxepin.

Doxepin? Okay. Doxepin. D-O-X-E-P-I-N. I don't know if that's still used. It's an anxiety medication from the 70s, so they probably found out that, you know, it's horrible for you. Terrible. So he said, he told the doctor, my anxiety is about my marriage falling apart and all this type of shit.

He says that the separation from his wife is just weighing on him and yeah just i'm feeling terrible you know just so terrible awful here just stick with it daddy oh it'll get better this was on march 17th 1976 he couldn't take it anymore it's a saint patrick's day he's like um yeah everybody else is partying i'm not irish and i don't feel it i'm sorry i'm not even smiling today i'm just not even smiling i can't do it my beer it's green but it's giving me no joy i wore a blue shirt and threatened to shoot anybody that pinched me anybody comes near me with any festivities is getting shot so again in 78 he's treated for depression and anxiety as well. He goes and sees a psychiatrist.

So, you know, he's not doing well. He's working on and off as a part-time mechanic. He's unemployed most of the time. He's good at fixing shit. Like, you know, if he was your buddy and you needed to change your brake pads, you'd call him. He'd come by. He'd come by and, you know, you get a a 12 pack and he'll fix it right up for you no problem order a pizza we'll fix the brakes and we'll all laugh but you got to give him gas money

because he's yeah he can't get there otherwise so he hung out at this point with drug dealers and drug users and you know just hanging out he found the scum on the edge of town and they're the whites that's all he's being the he's just being one of those whites um by the way even when he's in his mid-20s here 25 26 years old in the 70s he still goes to like you know in the woods bonfire keg parties that the high school kids are throwing so he is in his yeah mid full-on and it was mid-20s He's hanging out with 16 year olds in the woods, you know, paying two bucks for a red cup type of shit. That's like, remember the kid in high school at the party who was even like, you've been out of school for two years.

The fuck are you doing here? Right. You know, like, why are you here, bro? You shouldn't be here. No, you shouldn't. This is even your brother's party. You should be gone. I know you're home from college for the summer, but you should have still went and got a hotel room tonight.

This isn't right. You should be out of town with your parents. Why are you here? Otherwise, you get Mark Shimura situations that aren't good. No, you're in a hot tub with a very young girl, and there's problems. You shouldn't want to hang out with teenagers. You hear a pack of teenagers coming at you when you're 25 a bunch of 16 year olds with beer you're like oh god no get the fuck away from me you you haven't learned how to drink yet i'm not hanging

out with you people my neighbor across the street her dad her dad lives in flagstaff so he lets her stay in the house because she goes to college here yeah she told me it's probably going to be loud over there if you want come on by we're having a party I was like are you out of your fucking mind I'm 40 coming to your college party what are you nuts I'm gonna tell your dad what are you talking about what conversation could you hold with any of those kids I don't know other than if they were listeners to this show because that's the thing. We have a lot of like college age people listening to the show

but unless they're listeners to the show or unless they're interested in murder, there's not a lot you could talk about with them. Most of the people, they'd be like,

oh yeah, this person, you would go, I don't know who that is. I don't know that person. Do a what? They're what? Is there on,

they're a TikTok, they're a TikTok star is what you're saying. They're a TikTok star. Yeah, on? There are TikTok stars, what you're saying. They're a TikTok star. Yeah, I don't know TikTok stars on a name basis. You know what I'm saying? Why? I'm 40.

See? That's why. If I did, you should worry about me. Keep an eye on people who are 40 and know too many TikTok stars by name. I know she was doing it so that I don't call the cops on her, but I was like, I've got earplugs. I'm not going to call anybody. Just go do your thing.

I'm not a cop caller. I'm just going to tell your dad. I don't need to call the cops. I'll call your dad. That'll shut this shit down in a minute. It'll be real quick there. Come by. Fuck you. No. Oh, no oh my god that's amazing come by now my little brother one time not the one in new york the one in arizona young he's 12 years younger

than me he was having this party once when my mom and stepfather went out of town there's all these kids over there and i found out about it so my mother asked me to go over there and break it up right so i go over there with a couple of people and i bust in there and he's like hey hey want some beer and i'm like no i was like 27 i'm like absolutely not get the fuck out of here now clear this out i had to threaten to call my gangster friend to come over and when i brought up that guy's name he went okay everybody's got to get out. Seriously. He was like, I'm scared of that guy. He's got to go.

It was the only way to get everybody out of there. I was like, I'll have him come over here right now. That's fucking hilarious, man. I don't want to hang out with you. No. No. I'm not hanging out. No.

I've aged out of this a long time ago. It's not even close. Even if somebody trips and falls and hurts themselves you're the responsible one right you're the only adult here i'm not being the only adult here i'm the only one with self uh with my name on an insurance policy yeah no part of this shit so he's hanging out at fucking keg parties which is terrible in the woods here. Meeting teenagers. Meeting teenage girls, even. Oh, no.

Age means nothing to him. He fishes in the shallowest to the deepest waters. He doesn't give a shit. 14? No problem. What am I? 25, 26? Grass on the field, buddy.

Play ball. He's one of those guys. His friends always say he's about that doesn't care about age just as long as they're his type is into me yeah his type is uh having a heartbeat for a while here so um so his his wife kathy um here's a story from um from her his ex-wife okay yeah let's Let's just let her tell it. Okay. Here's her statements later on.

Quote, I started dating Joseph Arlen Shepard when I was approximately 14 years old. That's in the mid-70s. Yeah. So he's at least 20, 23. I married him at age 15. Oh, Tennessee. No. This is just horrible. i feel bad for this woman i grew up in a family in which my father was an alcoholic i married joe shepherd at an early age because he represented a way to get out of my home which is a way how a lot of

people back in the day used to get married at least it's not here the unknown's got to be better than this so is that the reason that it's not federally uh like just a blanket throughout the country is that why they let it be state by state it's gotta be what's the argument you know that's a really weird thing and i agree with that actually i would love a federally i would love a federal blanket on the age of marriage like or age of uh even age of consent i don't understand why a kid in you know whatever i'm gonna mississippi they could be 18 there i have no idea would be more thought of as more mature at 15 that you could have sex with them than a kid in california who's got to be 17 or 18 or i have no fucking idea i'm not a pervert so i don't know what the ages are in these states but and you shouldn't i shouldn't i have no idea you shouldn't nope i'm glad i don't

but i'm 40 and that is of zero concern to me but i can remember hearing things here and there like certain states have excessively young ages of consent, like 14. You know what I mean? Like 15. That seems crazy for an adult to be able to have sex with a 14-year-old. That's illegally. The law is like, well, I mean, he did their – he waited. I checked her ID. I checked her junior high school ID. Her eighth grade identification says she is 14 years old.

Wow. That should be it right am i wrong unless you're both under 18 yeah i don't understand unless you're yeah exactly and that's the other thing too you can't have this thing where like you know she's 17 and he's 19 so he goes to prison for three years like no no that's they could be in the same grade what are we talking about here like if she's smart and he's dumb that's a a fucking match. You know, like stuff like that is that kind of shit is different. I don't know. I think maybe they should have to wait.

Or wait. I don't know. But I mean, not maybe not, you know, you know what I'm saying? So that's sometimes like parents use that to retaliate and they use it to use it for women, too. There's women that goes both ways. So anyway, he she goes on. We had two children born to our marriage.

One is named Joey, of course. Yeah. What do you think? And the other is named Arlen after his middle name. So just those are mine. Bingo. Joe Shepard and I were divorced in Monroe County, Tennessee, in 1976. When Joey was a baby, this is their baby, Joey, not Joe Shepard.

Joe Shepard insisted I leave Joey with my mom to accompany him to live in Cleveland, Tennessee, Chattanooga, Tennessee, Georgia, and North Carolina. Jesus Christ. While I was married to Joe Shepard, he would slap me around and threaten me with a gun. Yeah, seems like our guy. Wow. guy wow on the uh on the occasion in which joe threatened me with a gun he was playing around with a pistol always a popular move in the living room and asked me if i wanted him to kill me wow okay it's a nice thing to do it really scared me no shit that would scare me too joe made me get down on my knees and beg him not to kill me. Then he laughed and said it was loaded with blanks.

At that point, Joe turned the gun and shot a hole through the wall. Oh, my God. Yeah, not loaded with blanks. Loaded with bullets. Yeah. Well, I'm on my knees and he's got this thing at my face. Yeah. But this is his sick shit.

He gets off on this. This is how he is. Oh, my God. On more than one occasion joe would get violent with me if i did not want to have sex he would have sex with me by force whenever he wanted to in tennis that's called rape yes absolutely in tennessee in about 1972 joe had a friend named tim who had a brother named bill that's not surprising uh Timmy and Billy and Joey and Timmy and Billy. Joe, Bill, and Tim would go out

a lot together. Joe saw me standing and talking to Tim one day. Tim was a good looking man and was wanting to fool around with me, but I refused. Joe got mad at me for talking with Tim and hit me in the mouth with his fist. Then Joe made me a prisoner in the Shepard

place. It gets worse. The story gets more harrowing. That's what I mean. In about 1972, we were living in an apartment in Gastonia, North Carolina. Joe's friend David Franklin was staying with us. Joe had gone to work and David and I were there alone. David kissed me and we played around a bit, but I stopped things before we had intercourse. Joe came home that evening and beat me. Joe claimed that he had seen me having intercourse with David. David left. Joe made me take my clothes off and lay face down on the bed, and then he beat me with a leather belt. Jesus Christ. Joe said he was going to do the same thing every night. He did the same thing the next night

and said i could either take a whipping every night or we could move back to tennessee what the fuck is wrong with this guy jesus christ we moved back to tennessee within the next couple of days sometime during 1972 what the fuck in about 1974 we moved back to north carolina joe would spend two weeks with me in North Carolina and would spend two weeks in Tennessee. In 1975, he tried to get me to go to Tennessee with him. I told him I would not, and he tied and gagged me. He put me in the trunk of our car and took me to Tennessee. This is psychotic.

He, what the fuck? He bound and gagged his wife and threw her in the trunk and drove her to another state and also like what's happening wherever they're living that that his friends just make out with his wife all of them yeah all of his friends if they're over and he's goes in the next room to get a beer their fuck got his tongue their tongues down his wife's throat i don't know what's going on here is everybody trying to bang this guy's wife how about we have some respect for your friendship no well think about joe what kind of guy is joe now what kind of a friends what kind of a friend would joe attract to be his buddy the guy that would want to hang out with joe right is you know a scumbag of the highest

order yeah not a good guy you'd meet this guy for 20 minutes and start edging away from him and be like well it's the door yeah this isn't my buddy i'm not gonna not gonna be hanging out with this You'd meet this guy for 20 minutes and start edging away from him and be like, well, this isn't my buddy. I'm not going to be hanging out with this guy. Before he goes to exchange numbers, I got to get the fuck out of here. I'm going to pick up my kids. I'll get that number from you next time. Okay.

You're on Facebook, right? Yeah. Good. Good. Great. You can just walk out the door. Follow me on Twitter. I'll follow you back.

Totally cool. I'll follow you. You can DM me and stuff. Block. Fuck that guy. So, yeah, this is, this this is it took me out of our that's he just drove imagine if he gets pulled over think about this how do you explain that that's my wife okay it's illegal to ride back there right it's it's a sex thing uh she like how do you explain that to a cop? No, your wife, no matter who it is, you're not allowed to tie up and gag people and carry them in the trunk to another state.

That's got to be illegal. It's a seatbelt. Right. I mean, she's she's at the very least at the very least you're violating some sort of seatbelt ordinance. Maybe a crossing state lines. There's got to be something federal to that. I don't know. It said it said she had to have a seat restraint. She's restrained to the back of that seat, so that's a seat restraint. Jesus Christ. Well, it gets worse. It took me to Tennessee.

They haven't arrived at their destination yet. This ride gets worse. During this time, the boys, their kids. Were screaming, leave my mommy alone. Perfect. I had no shoes on and no coat, only a greasy quilt. It was approximately 13 degrees and very cold. Oh, my God. And he's got her back there with the quilt that he puts on the ground when he changes the oil?

That's what it is. It's a greasy quilt. It's the ground quilt. It's the ground quilt. Yeah's the ground quilt, yeah. He puts that down so he doesn't get his shit too dirty, so his tools don't get all dust on them. And then not only that, he's got her in the trunk. You know they don't have a car that's got a kicking heater in there.

It's like a weak heater. It's not reaching back there. She's freezing. He finally stopped at Black Mountain, North Carolina to get gas. The fumes were so great in the trunk of the car that i thought i was going to die this she's probably got carbon monoxide poisoning and everything else after we got to tennessee in 1975 he dropped the kids off at his mom's house and took me to the top of a mountain going toward coker creek i don't like where this is going at all um at that at this he beat me and said if he could not have me, no damn body else was going to

either. I had previously told him it was over between us. Okay. So he took her out to a top of a mountain to scare her into staying. I was not allowed out of the house unless I was with either him or his mother holy shit that's a fucking kidnapping prisoner situation after several weeks of giving him the impression that I had accepted the situation I managed to escape she kept her wits about it that's good that was when he took the kids he caught up with me before I got out of the county

I believe he would have killed me but his father said joe it's not worth it let the damn bitch go you got the kids this is how they talk if you they're that's how they all talk in the the family it's or that we the ones we know about here um yeah let her go you got you got the kids on this occasion joe beat up my uncle Walter, who was on crutches. Okay, so now the list is too long. He's like in blazing saddles when they go through the town and they're being especially cruel. And it's like joking cruel.

Like, oh, have you ever seen such brutality when they're beating up the old lady and shit? Right. You know, doing silly. This is like he's like a man on crutches he's like a psychopath that's like what's the worst you don't think i bet you don't i bet you don't think i'm crazy enough to beat this guy on crutches up and pow it's like a 75 year old man on crutches and knocking him down that's right this is fucking sick man he's a crazy shit he said um wow and took the kids away from me i did not want to leave my sons with him but i felt i had no choice because i believe he would have killed me sooner or later i think you're right um i was never unfaithful to joe during

our marriage in december 1975 joe shepherd took both my sons away from me by force. The court later gave custody of the children to his mother based upon false testimony given by his friends. Our marriage not working out was not all Joe's fault. We should not have married in the first place. I married him to get away from home, and he said he would have married the first person who would have said yes because it would help his parole. So she married to get out of her house, and he married to say, I got a wife at home now. I got to support my wife and young family and all that, and I have parole. That's a bummer that she blames herself.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, they were both trying to use the other one to get out of a situation, and then he just was a fucking monster out of it, you know. But her situation that she's getting out of is not supposed to pose where his is. Exactly. No, she was a child who was being abused by her father, like being abused by an alcoholic father at home in the woods somewhere, so that's horrible. He's trying to get out of parole that he his behavior

got him in oh my god it's all all of his behavior we gave you the list it's a lot so that in that 1978 ish we're around now so joe is what a great guy he is you know in his 26th year let's talk about a young lady here named roxanne woodson roxanne is 16 years old at the time uh 15 into 16 there's debate there's debate on which one it is um she either way we don't know how old she is but at this point in time in february of 1978 she does have a seven month old-old baby daughter named Linda Lou. Yeah. Yeah.

What song is that? With a girl named Linda Lou. What song is that? I don't know. It's a fucking Southern rock song. Linda Lou? With a girl named Linda Lou. I think it's Linda Lou.

Probably. God damn it. One of every girl's name. It's from the 70s. It's fucking, I don't remember it now. God damn it. I'm not going to it's from the 70s it's fucking i don't remember it now god damn it i'm not gonna google this because we're not in my head no we don't want you don't want to get to know no but that is that just popped in my head when i heard linda lou maybe that's what it's from i think maybe i don't know so linda lou here and roxanne so she's 15

maybe 16 with a seven month old daughter already is already not a great sign of what's going on in this community here so that means somebody had sex with a 14 year old that's what i'm saying yeah this is bad stuff fuck well we heard the last one uh kathy his ex-wife joe's ex-wife they were getting together when she was 14 and then got married when she was 15. That's that's 15. 14 is considered wrapped fruit around these parts like this is fucking disgusting. So very gross. She came from she grew up in Indiana. Roxanne, she's not from around here.

So she grew up in Indiana and just moved to Monroe County a few months ago, about a month after her daughter was born. So in February 78, she's been there for about six months. She moved to live with her divorced father. Her parents were divorced. She moved there to live with her father there. So, you know, that's her thing. Her father has a new wife and the wife said she's happy to have them and the baby in the house and all that stuff. So she goes there to get help with the baby which you're a teenager you need help with the

baby for sure apparently she's planning on enrolling in school too and going to school that's why she's coming here so they can help with the baby and she can go to school that's the that's the plan anyway but uh she's here about six months she still hasn't enrolled in school or anything like that which i mean she just had a baby so that's a she's kind of busy it's a little bit tough here um you know she's a people say she's a nice kid um she's a good they say she's a young but a good mom and everything like that she's uh she's good but her her friends just all of them said she's just a nice girl like that's everybody's quote about her. Just a nice girl, Roxanne. That's all you can say about her.

She doesn't have enough life to be mean. Yeah, that's it. She has three other siblings also who still live in Indiana. So it's a family, and they were divorced and all that. And now, though, her dad's second wife, though, very into it. His second wife's name is Kay and all of that. So Roxanne is known as being a bit rebellious is the thing here. She initially dropped out of school in junior high back in Connersville, Indiana, after

she became pregnant. She was in the eighth grade and dropped out. So moved to East Tennessee, hoping that this would be, you know, a little bit better. They hope that she would not hang out with the people she used to hang out with. Right. It's the middle of nowhere. She's just going to give her some advantages. She's going to go to the school, come home, sit on the front porch with the baby in the rocking chair.

And just that's going to be her whole evening. So now she was being approached. So now she was being approached. She had been approached a lot by Joe Shepard since she's been in town because she's a young lady. And Joe's like, oh, someone new here. He also has the people he hangs out with. He's hanging out with a guy named Dit Robards. D.I.T.? D.I.T., Dit.

Dit Robards. What is that even short for? Didn't he, I i think i have no idea who the fuck knows is it short for diddy what is it what's it i think it's i think it's didn't yes it's didn't that's what it is uh dithaniel i think is what it's short for they just shorten it to dit not sure um ditholomew to tholomew is very nice did a dia i heard is another one but that's a biblical name obviously right a lot of mennonites running around named did a dia so dit here joe is like 26 years old. Dit, one of his running buddies, is 13.

So he's hanging out with. So he has the mentality of a 13-year-old. So he thinks it's cool to hang out with 13-year-olds and fuck 14-year-olds. Well, here's the thing, James. He's very impressed with a 13-year-old because that kid knows who the first five presidents of the United States are. He still remembers. And he can't. He's in third grade. He didn't't know shit he never got to that point and even if he knew his brain his brain's been so clogged with moonshine and

fucking you know who knows what meth resin he's hanging out with is harry floyd franklin who's 15 years old my god so these these kids are all too young to be hanging out with this idiot so uh harry franklin he's the one who befriended roxanne woodson They're both 15. That's normal. That's what we should be doing. They were neighbors. And so, yeah. Now, they were all hanging out, all the younger kids, you know, Dit and Harry and Roxanne.

And Joe asked them, hey, you guys want to go ride around? Yeah. He's got a Camaro, and he wants to go show it off. Of course he does. Yeah. Yeah, he's got a he's got a camaro and he wants to go show it off of course he does yeah yeah he's got a camaro he's like come on hop on in my camaro i wonder what year it is though you know it's not new we're in is it 78 early 78 it's probably 72 i was gonna say which is a fucking nice car it's a pretty that's a sweet ride if it's a 67 68 oh i want to kick i i know between all the shit he's done and if he has like a 68 camaro with the two one with the two lights the two fucking bulbs in the middle i will knock him silly i will swear to god i'll give him a forearm in the teeth it's fucking fun we like we like old cars is the thing i want with a short trunk fuck yeah and

that's a cool car yeah you can see, you can see my old car, actually. My brother has a YouTube video where he does a little tour of my car. I got a 71 Stingray that I love. Don't freak out, too. It costs less than a Honda Accord, like a used one. Get them cheap. Get them cheap if you're willing to fuck with them. So anyway, but yeah, we like these old cars cars and we're hoping it's not a nice one.

We're hoping he's got like a. If he gets if he's got that fucking blue one with the white stripes, I will find him in prison today. The problem is if it's 78, unless it's a brand new one, all anyone he can get is fucking pretty goddamn cool. It's way cool. And even a 78 is pretty cool. It's not as fast, but it's cool as 78. way cool yeah and even a 78 is pretty cool it's not as fast but it's cool as 78 so um now roxanne that night ends up never coming home now her dad and her stepmom and i'm sure her baby are wondering where the hell roxanne is yeah but uh she never comes home that night at all and it uh

obviously the next this isn't like one of these things where we're like, I don't know, she'll be home eventually. The family freaks out. She might be a little wild, but she doesn't disappear, period. And she's always home for her baby. Like, she's not going to just disappear and not be around for the baby. So they freak the fuck out. They report her missing to the police, actually. They don't just get a bullhorn and scream it from the side of the mountain.

They're actually normal people who would call the police and say, my daughter didn't come home. I'm worried about her because she's 15. So, yeah, John Woodson is the dad and he calls right away and talks. And the this is what it's described as, by the way. And this is you can tell it's a this is the report they took. The police took, OK, from the dad dad calling quote roxanne had brown hair brown eyes five foot three inches 125 pounds sort of fat no dad five five three 125 no matter what isn't fat anyway but yeah why would you say that anyway dad sort of fat it's not fat um at all she had

seven month this is the other this is the report so this is a this is your stats if you ever go missing this is they're gonna report only they're not gonna report nice kid you know does this they report sort of fat quote she had seven month old illegimate child, and she also got her right thumb caught in a car door not too long ago. She was last seen wearing a brown blouse and brown slacks and a denim jacket. They are not vague at all. No. They're very specific about this girl. Jesus Christ.

So specific that we're going to tell you that we don't know who the dad is. Or just that she had a baby out of wedlock. So, yeah, she must have. Who cares? What ends up happening, though, they're looking for her. It's a full. This ends up being hundreds of people looking for, I mean, teams. And there's a bloodhound named Blue who's got like a pedigree and all this shit they're looking for.

Blue or Lou? Blue. Blue with a B. Yeah. Blue. Sniff out blue yeah so the problem is they also equally think that she just ran off they call it they back then and i even say like the cops go back then the term ran off was a thing that that just meant kid took off somewhere and are you in an oft they said a lot of small towns, kids would take the fuck off and go some.

They just go. They get out of here and they go to a city or go to another town or they go. They'd have a boyfriend or a girlfriend somewhere they'd go to or they take off. It's happened all the time. So they were worried. That's what it was. a kid in town who told them that he heard that Roxanne took off from her home and told people she was going to take off and run away because her father was too strict. Okay. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller,

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In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more.

Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1

and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So the cops are like, huh, shit. Yeah, what's up with that? So while they're asking around,

they run into a woman named Anne Rainey. Now, Anne Rainey's sister Peggy had become involved with Joe recently. Peggy was 18, actually, but also expecting expecting her second baby at this point both of which

are fathered by Joe Shepard so he's knocking up he knocked her up when she was 15 the first time is what we're saying so many children pregnant this is awful yeah this guy's a one man fucking social wrecking crew is what he is we're saying so this isn't so many children pregnant this is awful yeah this guy's a one-man fucking social wrecking crew is what he is this is destroying the social fabric of a town all alone

just get everybody wow one child at a time one kid at a time and then he's he's doing that to the girls but then the boys he's polluting their minds too by hey hey youngster y'all want to hang out yeah you want to hang out want to take some pills all right i love skinnered me too that's great and that's that's all he needs to get and then it's like you want to meet some girls sure i do all right let's get him drunk and take him in the woods and we'll do things to him okay is that what you do no that's not what you do get this guy off the street so anyway that was february 28th she disappears by march 5th they're searching on march 5th they're more than a hundred searchers combed an area of the cherokee national

forest uh looking for her and could not find her um so they're looking everywhere they said the in the newspaper it says authorities said the girl was last seen Monday night by Joe Shepard. They say he's 30 at this point, which he's not. That's what I mean. They keep screwing it up. And two juveniles. Round about 30. He's 30-ish.

We didn't ask. He just looked about 30. It's a round number. He was last seen in the Lions Creek Road area about two and a half miles from there. The last scene in the Lions Creek Road area, about two and a half miles from there. The girl who was with the three had an argument with one of the boys and walked into the woods, authorities say. So, yeah, they said it's possible the girl left the woods Monday and may be hitchhiking to her mother's home in Indiana. That's the theory.

That's the working theory. She's either been murdered in the woods or she's going to pop up in indiana anytime now and everything's fine one or the other that is not either one of those is a horrifying theory not a great theory at all um dad that's the like both of those are the one's awful and the other's worse like what, what the fuck? That theory goes to shit, though, when a few days later, the mom shows up to help look for her. Oh, no. They're like, she's not with you? And she's like, I haven't heard from her at all. I'm worried about her.

We're looking for her. Any other theories? Well, we got one. We got one. That ain't good, though. You were the second, so this other one's pretty fucked. Are you ready? We were really hoping on theory number one that you were behind.

We were hoping that. So it's pretty wild here. So a few days later, a Teleco Plains police officer, there's a rumor about she's buried up in the hills somewhere. Went to Star Mountain, it is. Star Mountain. There's a rumor that somebody called an anonymous tip, teenage girl buried on Star Mountain. I think it's the one you're looking for. So they go out to there and to check for it, and they got no.

They couldn't find anything. It was nothing there. It was just a false lead. It happens all the time. It was nothing there. It was just a, you know, falsely. It happens all the time. So on February 28th, that is, or I'm sorry, it was February 26th.

She disappeared February 28th. They go to talk to the Shepherds. They want to talk to Joe Shepard because he's the adult that she was last seen with. So, you know, they talked to the two teens and now they're going to talk to the adult to see what their story is. And his record isn't good, and they know that he's got a slew of children by half the teenagers in town. So that's another problem. So they, Bill Bevins, Deputy Bill Bevins, Officer Marshall Hendricks,

they go out to the home of the Shepherds. This is the Shepherd homestead here where all 11 were raised, and Ma and Pa Shepherds still live is the shepherd homestead here where all 11 were raised and mom, pa shepherds still live out here. And, uh, he lives there. They're going to talk to him and see where the, where the,

you know, come, they're going to say, come down to the station and talk to us is what they're doing. So, uh, during the visit, he says,

well, I'll tell you what, I'll take you to where I last saw where we last, you know, we're together. I'll show you the exact point. She walked into the woods and y'all can take it from there. So he goes into the bedroom.

He says, I'm just going to go get my coat and my shoes and put them on. I'll be right with you. He goes into the bedroom, which you can see from the living room. You can see him. It's not like upstairs or anything like that. No, not a big place. It's right there. So the deputy could

hear him cursing and talking to himself was it while he's in the bedroom one of the things he says out loud loud enough for the guys everyone in the next room to hear because there ends up being four separate statements besides his and they all say this exact phrase so he must have said this quote i'm getting goddamn tired of being aggravated by these sons of bitches about these damn whores i'm getting goddamn tired of being aggravated by these sons of bitches about these damn whores that's what he said to himself that's that's a lot of words that's a lot of words he he really he shoehorns damn in there like getting goddamn tired is a lot of words. That's a lot of words. He really shoehorns damn in there. Like, getting goddamn tired is a lot of being aggravated by these sons of bitches.

About these damn whores. These damn, about these damn whores. He then comes out of the bedroom holding a 12-gauge shotgun. What? Yeah, not good. Pointing it toward the officers. Again, this is uh get you shot territory there um so the one officer hendrix pushes the deputy into the kitchen like pushes him out of

the way actually like i'll take the bullet this guy johnny fucking hero over here just i mean that's pretty impressive what's his name officer marshall hendrix that's impressive, that's pretty impressive. What's his name? Officer Marshall Hendricks. That's impressive, dude. Swear him in as Secret Service tomorrow. Fucking A. Yeah, he pushed the deputy. I'll save you, deputy. Save you, other guy that doesn't matter. Yeah. That's what I mean.

Other, you know, low cog in the pecking order, I'll save you. Insignificant. We should both dive out of the... We're not being insulting to that level. We're saying we should dive out of the way because we being insulting to that level we're saying we should dive out of the way because we don't get paid enough for this shit right let a captain die get take a shotgun blast to the chest not me so he pushes him out of the way draws his revolver and shoots a warning shot over his head holy shit over his head doesn't shoot him shoots a warning shot fires intentionally away from him

to that's why wow um so the guy drops the shotgun though he says put the fucking gun down pow and the guy oh shit drops the shotgun and um at that point the officers called for more officers and he's taken into custody and everything like that so oh by the way the mayor is here as well he's outside while this is going the mayor called this in and was like hey you know question this fellow so he draws a shotgun on them threatening it's not even like all right let's go out in the woods i'm bringing this shit in case there's a squirrel no no it's he had a shotgun if the cops say you're coming with us don't come with a weapon usually especially not brandishing it right like outright with the barrels aiming at me so i guess they took it as i don't know if this is just he's showing us to us

or whatever but this guy took it upon himself to you know handle the situation and he does fascinating event but at that point he is arrested for uh assault on a police officer okay for brandishing a weapon you can't pull a gun on a fucking cop especially not one that's you know just hanging out in your living room that's crazy so after you've said the phrase and the sentence that you've just said you just called them sons of bitches about these damn whores and how aggravated you are yeah so he makes bail his parents bail him out here uh what's his excuse for that here let's let's hear his statement okay if it's not i wanted them to compliment my birthday gift it's bullshit i got the it's a beauty ain Ain't she a beaut? Figure there's anybody who can appreciate it. It's law enforcement. I thought y'all was hunters.

I'm sorry. He said, quote, this is Joe Shepard, quote, fuck, I got up and went into the living room and the deputies wanted to know where I had last seen a girl. I don't know. My mom's right there. Oh, fuck. This guy's an idiot. That's right there. Oh, fuck. This guy's an idiot.

I said that the last I had seen her was where we had parked on Old Furnace Road. Old Furnace Road? Could you have a less attractive address than that? Could you have like Oozing Wart Way? Would that be the only one that would be like worse than Old Furnace? It sounds like it smells like burn metal and coal turn left on pro prolapse anus drive i'm the seventh house on the right i like that one that's a nice house oh boy all the houses here they really rise high from the ground is what i like about them really uh so the officer said get your clothes on and go with them. I walked back into his tenses and his, well, that stuff's bad.

Said, get your clothes on and go with them. I walked back into the bedroom and tripped over a cord to the electric heater and the shotgun fell that was leaning against the facing of the door leading into the living room. So he's saying that he tripped, it fell and it fell like in the doorway. So he just went over and picked it up room so he's saying that he tripped it fell and it fell like in the doorway so he just went over and picked it up is what he's saying here i picked it up and threw it threw it over some clothes piled up and as i turned around i started going through the door into the living room and at that time one of the deputies shot hitting the living room wall i got dressed and went with the officers to Monroe County Jail. So, yeah, that's a hell of a story.

His story is he picked it up, put it down, walked out completely unarmed, and the guy took a shot where everyone else says something else. Everyone else says he walked out with a shotgun. After being tired of being aggravated. After being tired of being aggravated by these sons of bitches about these damn whores obviously it's it's a problem so um over the next coming days he's questioned um he is even given uh old dit uh dit uh franklin and joe shepherd are all given lie detector tests because there's rumors that all this shit. Joe apparently passes the lie detector test.

So he passes this test. Everybody said, oh, the cops said they gave him a lie detector and he's still walking around. He must not have done it. That's what everybody thought. Well, I guess that theory is over with. Must have been something else. Either or. not have done it that's what everybody thought well i guess that's i guess that theory's over with must have been something else um either error well it gets back to the cops that he tells everybody that he took quote a handful of valium before the tests okay so that'll keep your heart rate from spiking because you're you could be saying anything and you're not gonna fucking

yeah anxiety you're just you're gonna be a flat line on everything so he would uh quote fool the tests and they're a lot different the tests back then too it was mainly just heart rate it didn't do like now it's there's like a perspiration there's a certain that they're very technical now and they hold your wrists rather than any nodes yeah yeah yeah thumb on your pulses and they're like they're still bullshit but they're less no i think he's good no he said he didn't do it so um he uh okay this is uh this is his statement here uh yes this is his statement uh quote um we talked for a while and dit asked me if i was going to take him to judy's i said yes i guess so me har Roxanne, Pig, and Dit got in the car and drove over to Roxanne's trailer so she could ask her father if she could go with us.

She came back and had a bunch of pills. They looked like Valium. She was wanting everybody to take them. Oh, man. We left Roxanne's trailer and went to Ditt's aunt's trailer in Mount Vernon so Ditt could call Judy and tell her that we were coming by. No cell phones. We left Mount Vernon and went to Teleco and picked up Judy. After we got Judy, we rode up River Road to the Steel Bridge and stopped and talked a while. Ditt and Judy got out and talked for maybe 30 to 35 minutes. Everybody else at one time or another got out and used the bathroom. Dit and Judy decided to walk down toward the beach. It's a diner, not an actual beach. It's Teleco Beach, it's called, and it's a diner. And Dit said, quote, and Dit said if they wasn't at the beach, they'd be walking down the road toward Judy's house. Harry told me he wanted to go someplace so that he could try to screw roxanne that's the 15 year old which again that's all fair game if you're 15 you should be trying to quote screw 15 year olds you know at least so this is a fascinating way of saying it but all

right i know dude it's this is cool. I don't like that terminology. It's pretty gross. Quote, we left the steel bridge and drove up to an old furnace road and parked. I was driving. Pig was in the front seat with me and Harry, and Roxanne were in the back. Harry was in the back seat playing with Roxanne's breast. She told Harry that he could have some if Pig and I would get out of the car and leave us alone.

I slid back between the bucket seats to the back seat and I asked Roxanne if she was going to give us some too. She said no, just Harry. Good God, you fucking disgusting people trying to run a train on this poor girl. Quote, Roxanne

started crying and carrying on so i got out of the car with pig i told harry to calm her down she was yelling to let her out of the car so that she would wash so that she would walk i told harry to calm her down and that we would ride around for a while and then go pick up dit and judy everybody got in the car before we got out of the car i got a little toy gun off the dashboard of my car i held up now he's been known for pulling pistols at people so this is what he's saying is he held he basically held the gun on her as a joke and then she took off and ran out ran away into the woods is what happened that's it he had a toy gun and boom gone yeah he makes

it sound like he popped in the back seat was like we all gonna do this and she's like and then she just went hysterical and started screaming and crying she was she was crying wanted to get out of the car he said we calmed her down said oh we're all gonna go drive around no one's gonna be fucking anybody it's all good and then he took out a toy gun to be like, yeah, and I got this in case you blah, blah, blah. And that's when she freaked out, just got out of the door and screamed and ran into a heavily wooded area by herself, screaming and yelling. If she freaked out in the backseat after the implication that he may be getting in there as well. Oh, it's definitely because of the implication. It was certainly not a question.

It was probably, we're all doing this to you. And she's like, no. No, don't think so. And then with the, of course she's losing her mind. Oh, this is a scary situation. She's with a bunch of dudes. They all said they want to fuck her. And then one of them takes out what she believes is a gun.

Yeah. Running into the woods. Terrifying. This is a horrifying situation absolutely so there is a uh guy named jeff mobley not a guy he was 10 at the time so a kid here he lived at a house on old furnace road lived at the house on old furnace road so i guess there's one house it says wow that's from a court document so probably one house he said that um around two or three days before any searching for roxanne started like the organized searches started

like a week later he said that three men in a red or white car had asked uh had stopped him around dusk while he was cutting wood outside the house. That's the 10-year-old's cutting wood. Fuck. That's a different era there. Go on, child. Go cut wood. Would you let your fucking, how old's your kid? 13 now?

14? There's no way I'm letting him handle an ax. No. I was going to say, if your kid picked up an ax, you'd go, you put that the fuck down right now. Right now. Stop. No. Drop it.

Drop it where you stand. You are not certain. You haven't been trained with that? You put it on the fucking ground. This kid's just chopping wood out there. He's just out there with a mace, just slamming, separating wood. He's splitting, he's shirtless and jacked. Wiping his brow with his forearm. Just going to say, pulling his handkerchief out of his back pocket to wipe

his brow it's like the it's like a beer commercial only he's 10 uh so he said he's cutting wood outside the house and these three men in a red or white car had asked if he had seen a girl walking down the road so yeah that's what they were they were doing um and uh they were saying that um that they they bring this up later because all they basically all of roxanne's friends they really do a thorough search and investigation for her so they they look through all of her friends cars her one friend has a red chevy nova that matches the description of the of the car that this kid says. And they found hairs in the trunk of this car that potentially could match Roxanne. So not DNA, same type of hair.

So it's not anything special, but that's what they were going to bring up later on. Now, he, Joe Shepard, that night had been driving a white Camaro with a black metal top. I don't know how you get a black metal top on a Camaro, but it's just black. It could be the black vinyl. It's the white one with the black vinyl. That's what it is. So March 29, 1978. So a month goes by.

No Roxanne. They don't find her. They can't find her. She's disappeared. No one hears from her. No Roxanne. They don't find her. They can't find her. She's disappeared. No one hears from her. No one finds her. They're looking still, but it's starting to get less and less and less. They're hoping she just ran off at that point.

So Joe has a court date for his assaulting a police officer that he does not show up to. Oh, Joe. So they want to find him because now they you know they got to question him more and he just disappeared they end up tracking him down on march 29th 1978 uh to his ex-mother-in-law's house remember gastonia ex-wife's mom gastonia north carolina right they show up the police and say we're looking for joe and he's they're like that's my ex-son-in-law he's not here so they go well we got to search we have a warrant and we'll search so they go in and search in the back of the house in a child's room there's a child sleeping in a bed at the foot of the bed

curled up under covers is joe trying to look like trying to look like the family dog they're like joe and he's like we got a snossage and then he sat up joe you gotta go out and go potty come on joe that's not gonna go for a walk and then he hopped up and they're like ha we knew it was you gotcha you bastard. Busted. It's like, shit. Can I have that sausage though?

Son of a bitch. Have that pepperoni. Have that pepperoni. What are these, you caught fleas for this, Joe? Jesus. Dog products always look delicious to me for some reason. I don't know why, but I'm very attracted to the look of a dog product like we have these dog treats and i i almost grabbed the bag and started eating them last

night not realizing they were dog treats because i just saw the they have like you know pictures of the treats on the outside and i was like oh that looks good and i grabbed it not knowing what it was thank fuck there's a picture of a dog with floppy ears on the other side that alerted me that this is not people food i've tried them i almost ate dog ice cream i was good i wanted ice cream and i'm like how bad could it be and then i saw like not for human consumption and it's probably made from like fly shit i'm like yeah maybe not i got these duck jerkies that are wrapped around sweet potatoes for vaughn. He fucking loves them. Really? So when he loves something, I want to know why, James.

So I always taste them. And I just pop them in my mouth and suck on it, and I go, not so good. Not so good. You ever tried a pepperoni? They look way better than they are. I'll tell you what. It's not awful. I don't know if you're supposed to dip them in something or what to make them better.

If anybody out there has a good pepperoni recipe, hit us up. At Murder Small on Twitter. At Small Town Murder on Instagram. Just, you know, Small Town Pod on Facebook. Hit us up. Is it barbecue that you dip them in? Do you wrap them in bacon? Tell me.

That's the thing. Is this a grill situation? Do I need to put them on like a hot pan, flat top, quick? Do I need to parboil them? What pan flat top quick do i need to do i need to parboil them what do i do how do i do this is will an air fryer help me at all in this situation do i need one of those they're not as bad as you think but they're not near as good as they should be they're not as good as they look right they look like you could eat the whole bag of them and be like man those pepperonis are something.

They look just like whatever those beef jerky sticks are, the expensive old trappers at the gas station. They look better than those. Yes, they do. They look better than those. I would rather eat a pepperoni. Because those look dehydrated and shitty. Those look like they fell behind the back seat of somebody's car for six months and then they found them when they were vacuuming one day. Got caught in the vacuum. Like like what the fuck is this oh it's a it was a slim jim i bought six months ago we went fishing that time remember that's what they look like that's what they look

like pepperonis look juicy not so juicy pretty dry they're pretty bad they're pretty bad looking dogs have shit taste, man. Is there a dip? Are you supposed to dip them? Maybe there's a sauce I should put over them. Maybe like an Asian, like an Asian sauce. Jalapeno cheese? Maybe that's it. Yeah, maybe like a teriyaki type of thing we could do. Or do I want a smoky flavor?

Do I sesame in that somewhere? Do I dice them and put them in a salad? Is that better? Ooh, that's what you could do. You could fry them up, put them in a salad? Is that better? That's what you could do. You could fry them up, put them in a salad after dicing them. I feel like that's enough. You could put them on a pizza. That would be nicer.

Make like a flatbread. Give a pizza oven. Dice them and put them in some sort of cheese sauce. I think you could do it. Drizzle it over some pasta. I'm going to do it. This has been Dog Food Recipes for Humans with James and Jimmy. Thank you for joining us. Is it illegal to do this has been dog food recipes for humans with James and Jimmy. Thank you for joining us.

Is it illegal to do that and feed it to your kids? I mean, it's probably not good. The child services asks. It's not good. If you describe the care you went to to prepare it, they might just think you're weird and not a crime. But if you made him a pasta. Yeah. You didn't just pull it out of the bag, throw it on the floor, and was like, there you go, kid.

Muncher. Sit, sit. Come on. You know you want one. If you made that much of an effort, I would think they would just think you were an experimentation. If you do it on YouTube, you can write it off. What's the difference between that and putting it in like a fucking orchid? You know what I mean? That's what I mean. What's the difference between that and putting it in like a fucking or a keffi you know what i mean what's the difference what the hell throw it over there i want to spice up my alfredo you know i

mean it's a little like that in there too i can just tell much or we can just do it raw you know just do it slice it very thin like a carpaccio oh very like crackers and cheese some capers on there and the olive oil it's a carpaccio and you get some you load it up charcuterie board very oh yeah that's gonna be beautiful that's what you do your next party everybody out there make a charcuterie board. Oh, yeah, that's going to be beautiful. That's what you do. Your next party, everybody out there, make a charcuterie board and mix in some pepperoni prepared lovingly in there and just see if anyone notices. One person at your party will go, I don't know what this is. It's delicious. Hey, Betsy, what is this?

This is, oh, what the pepperoni? Just say pepperoni. They won't know. know yeah little pepperonis oh okay tiny it's so cute wow sorry for that long that long diatribe of how to make dog treats what the hell is wrong with us i I know what's wrong with me. I'm on like four edibles, but I don't know what your problem is. You're drinking water over here. I offered you some of the bowl. You didn't want any beforehand.

It just sounds so delicious. It just does. So, God, okay. I'm just going to center myself here. April 8th, 1978. Now, the Shepherd Home is a cluttered shithole by the way at this one there's a big yard uh filled with stuff there's car parts and junks and junk junks and like there's like a just like a rusty trail uh rusty pickup truck body out there like a just

a piece of crap it's kind of like it looks kind of like a like a like a badly stocked junkyard back there it's just it's not they just started the junkyard yeah we're building it up who's got more junk for us yeah so they're they're doing all this now his mother is at the window in the kitchen and notices they have a shitload of dogs everywhere again junkyard material so you got to kind of picture the avery house when you're thinking of this but more backwoods you know yeah sparsely yeah not not their lot their house not that fucking car lot that they found the the car on uh so anyway they're um in here it's you know it spring, so there's just shit starting to pop and all that sort of stuff.

So they, at that point, oh, by the way, they have a, there's old car seats, like kids' car seats that are old and cracked vinyl and all that. Yeah. There's also a 1953 Olds Cutlass that's old and abandoned and rusted out and rotted sitting there. Now, while she's washing the dishes, she looks out the window and notices all the dogs are over by the rusted-out olds, by these car seats, and they won't go away from there. They're just all around there, and they're fighting to get in there.

She's like, what the fuck are these goddamn dogs doing out there? Your dogs are doing something weird. You're like, will you stop with the weird shit whatever your dog heads are telling you to do? Stop sniffing in that hole? What is that? Then you go over there, and you're like, oh, there's a bagel in there. Oh, that's why. I get it now.

There's a pepperoni prepared with the- You dropped one in the gopher hole? What'd you do that for? It's a Thai spice pepperoni. That's why, because you really made it nice. So she goes over, shoos the dogs out of the way, and is like, what are they fucking getting at? So she moves these car seats. There's a couple of car seats there.

So she pushes them off. And what she sees are two hands sticking out of the dirt. Out of the dirt. Human hands like someone, you know how you bury someone at the beach and their head's sticking out? Well, just their hands are sticking out and this isn't a beach. It's a shitty yard pair of hands with a gold ring on one of the fingers, by the way. So you can catch it in the sun.

Like they said, it was very, you could see this. Um, they were, it's horrible. This is a older woman. Um,

she also sees strands of hair where the chickens had been pecking. Oh God. So there's strands of hair being pulled chickens had been pecking. Oh, God. So there's strands of hair being pulled through the dirt as well around here. So she freaks out, obviously, runs away, goes into the house, calls her husband. Her husband calls the police to come over. You got to do that. come over you got to do that um so the the police come over to dig her to dig this up and the whole area the whole town gathers at the edge of the driveway they dig up it's it's a it's a badly decomposed body they're letting people come take a look at it oh my god there's people

in the back like can i get a gander and they're like all right come on bring cleatus through we just want to take a gander yeah there's no crime scene there's no nothing it's just come on everybody back up come on get it over with and take your look and go trample the crime scene come on we can get the identification done taken here that way people got to come down to the building they can just come right here it's insane it's really not good uh but that's just how it was back then uh one of the people who saw said quote i didn't look for uh long because it was just awful one thing i'll never forget is she had a ring on her finger and her hands were sticking up from the ground the sun was bright and that ring glistened so

much i'll never forget that you shouldn't see that jesus christ they said that there was they were allowing people to come look one at a time all the people from the town one person said quote almost like a line into an exhibited affair they were lined up like in deadwood when they had wild bill hickok on the fucking side and they're all lined up to take a you know five two bits of gander yeah yeah like babe ruth or something they're except this is a newly uncovered decomposing body this is fucking disgusting so um they said that the the smell was overwhelming um obviously um this was about a hundred feet from the house from the family home here so it wasn't like deep in the woods or anything like that. There was some vegetation that had grown.

Also, protruding from the ground are half-eaten toes. Oh, God. So toes are sticking up that have been eaten away by animals or some chickens, dogs. some chickens dogs and when they finally get the the dirt off this body has a pair of the leg from the pair of jeans they assume the pair of jeans this person was wearing wrapped around the face like take a leg of your pants wrap it around your head like that like make a mask out of it whatever that covers your whole face that's how that she she's found. The upper torso is clad in a shirt and bra. So that's what we have. Nothing on the bottom half except for socks.

They said they found a pair of rust-colored, like her jacket possibly. They found underwear laying next to the body and her each and her shoes had been placed one next to each knee on the outside so very specifically um the garments found with this body matched those described as what she was wearing when she disappeared roxanne woodson yeah so um yeah it's bad stuff so they they go talk to the harris kid the frankie harris and uh he says that she was fully clothed clothed last time he saw her so you know that was because he's like the last known person to see her fully clothed

last time i saw her i don't know anything about that do you know how her pants got off is what they're doing so they do the autopsy they do find out it's roxanne's body through dental records uh she apparently has a very specific molar that they could identify easily through dental records they said there's no signs of trauma to the body no foreign object inside the body um they said that that later on not in the initial autopsy but later on they they do note that there is a blow to the head that could have been serious enough to cause death and should have been detected in the initial autopsy. But that they also said there was another blow to the head that would probably be only sufficient possibly to cause lack of consciousness, knocking somebody out. But that couldn't – they said that probably – that's understandable to miss, this one, because it was a light one. But the other one they should have seen.

They said the cause of death most consistent with the physical findings was asphyxiation or suffocation. Evidence of hemorrhage in the larynx supported the theory of that. So they had to really get deep for this. Because we're talking a month and a half this has been there so it's a long time they said strangulation was also a possible cause of death although they found no fractures in the cartilage or bone of the neck the hyoid bone that wasn't broken uh none of that they said is it possible they asked the doctor um it's possible he ended up saying that she could have been buried alive they're not sure as well that impossible yes possible no they said if there is if she was buried alive we wouldn't know it because dirt

wouldn't be able to get into her mouth because she had denim wrapped around her face right so that's how you would be able to tell if she had dirt in her lungs, but they didn't see that. So he also, the doctor says he found no evidence of sperm during the autopsy, but also indicated that over a month and a half, the sperm could have degenerated and become unrecognizable. So the science is not as good as it is now. They said there's no evidence of ingestion of drugs or alcohol, although low levels of acetone or ethanol were found.

Ethanol. We'll explain that, too. They said this could have been the product of putrefying changes, your body changes. They said that the acetone might be a product of ingesting rubbing alcohol, which is potentially lethal but also said that he saw no evidence that she died from drinking rubbing alcohol so they want to talk to joe who luckily for them luckily for them is sitting in their

fucking jail after he escaped the first time so he's sitting in there now they go over to him they talk to him and he says quote why don't you quit bothering me and go to indiana and see if roxanne woodson's up there with wayne robards and his wife and his wife okay and his wife um they were like well don't think so they said that's not going to be necessary and uh he said well i wish she would be found so you people would leave me the hell alone wow at least he refrained from damn whores at least he's straight yeah get that out so he uh then they said uh well actually we don't have to do any of that we found her buried in your yard joe so you know it's where the case kind of ends now with this it's your yard he says oh you're lying you're lying and then he said or this is

the second thing either you're lying one of the two you're lying or quote somebody put her in there to make me look bad a hundred feet from your house hundred feet from your house they said joe you have like six dogs that are out all the time and everything else who the fuck could come in dig a shallow grave and dump a teenager in it without you or any of your dogs noticing how is that possible you fucking idiot so uh to make me look bad because that's what i do you know i want to make someone look bad i'm like i'm gonna kill a teenager and bury her in his yard that'll do it ha ha that'll make him look horrible he'll never be president of the rotary club now what the fuck are you doing how would somebody get that you would have to be distracting your dog with a a two hour long youtube show of pu pepperoni recipes otherwise those dogs are out there for sure watching your property

yeah and you have something that they want to sniff and bite and everything else jesus so joe says over the this is what he says happened over the course of the next 12 hours not in the course of that night he says interrogation began at 3 30 a.m and lasted until 3 p.m the night that day so that nowadays would be considered too long of an interrogation they'd probably throw whatever he set out anything past about four hours six hours they're gonna fucking toss make somebody up too you know what i mean hey get up let's talk about murder so um and then again i bet a lot of listeners do that for us they turn it on hey wake up let's if you're listening to this and it's early morning wake up let's talk about murder

get up and give me murder that's out of bed let's talk about this so so um now he says also that his miranda rights were not read to him until 2 30 p.m is another thing he says he says also that his Miranda rights were not read to him until 2.30 p.m. There's another thing he says. He says also that one of the TBI, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation officers, and the district attorney had threatened to put his parents in jail, burn down his parents' house, and take away his children. He also claimed they, one or all of them, we don't know, punched him in the stomach, grabbed him by the throat, and pushed him against the wall. He said that after about noon, he'd been taken from the holding cell into a small office, and he said that at that point, everybody calmed down a little and all that and whatever. Now, they say that's not what happened at all.

They said they talked to him beginning at about 4 a.m. He was giving his given his Miranda rights in the very beginning. He acknowledged them and agreed to talk, but refused to sign anything, which is that's shady. That's, you know, a lot of times if you won't sign anything nowadays they go when we can't talk that's it period you know done and it'll be on video them saying i understand but i won't sign it's still not okay so they said he uh appeared mentally alert and physically sound wasn't under the influence of alcohol or drugs they uh they said that uh he was given they said that he was interviewed until about 11

a.m or noon with breaks for breakfast and trips to the bathroom they said he never requested that the questioning stop and they all denied that they physically abused him or threatened to burn his parents house down or anything of the of the like of that nature so here's the story that they get out of him this is why boy this is why he wants to say that this shouldn't be admissible anywhere. Can't wait. Because the story is, as you can imagine, not real believable. So they go to talk to him. And at first he said, must have been somebody trying to make me look bad.

Eventually he said, all all right tell you what i buried her right you're right it's my yard clearly i buried her but i didn't kill her okay i just buried her you know how it goes you're walking around you see it you see a corpse you just like i i should bury that in my yard i think i was the last one to see her alive but i was probably the second person to see her dead. The second person. Yeah, because obviously, last and first. It's very different when you see those two things.

He confesses that on the night of the death, he had gone back to the car to see if he could, quote, get him some from a 15-year-old. We both did that very at the same time to get an 18 year old that's pregnant and he's trying to get him from a 15 year old from a 15 year old. He said he wanted to get him some while Frankie and Charles went to the bathroom. So they took off for a minute and he said, I'm a perfect opportunity to get me some. He says that finally, Roxannexanne he says relented is the way he puts it i'll just quote the statement he said that roxanne had relented and agreed to have sex with him and had started to pull down her pants but that he decided he wanted nothing to do with her quote after all the hassle he'd been through.

So when he started pulling down her pants, he was all gung ho. But halfway down, he's like, it's just been too much of a hassle. Now I have to take pants off. It's just too much. This is the least believable story of all time. It's like your boss walking in with your paycheck and you're going, you know what? I had to put in 40 hours for that shit. I don't even want it now.

I don't even want it. Yeah.'t even want it yeah because to him this is a paycheck to him raping a 15 year old is a paycheck you know that's like oh i've been working hard for this all the hassle so he said he just got out of the car and uh to call out for frankie and charles he said at that point, Roxanne left the car upset and angry and distraught, obviously, having been rejected by Prince Charming over here. So she got out of the car and she ran, according to him, ran about eight or ten feet and then tripped in her. You know how it is when you're running hysterically away from something. You don't see things on the ground. Tripped and, quote, hit her head on a rock or something. Yeah. Yeah.

He said he went over and checked for a pulse. Yeah. So now he tells, at some point here, he tells the different agents that are questioning him two different stories about right now during the same interrogation as well. He tells Deputy Graves that he found no pulse on her. And then he tells Agent Atkins that he felt a pulse, but he couldn't get any other response from her. Those are very different. He at that point, he says he felt bad. So he covered her face and body with the jeans to keep

her warm her face her face i'll keep her i want to keep her head warm you want to keep her head real warm jesus christ he told he told them the officers that he then ran he ran up and down the hill so he would look breathless when he returned to the car where Frankie and Charles were. And that's where he told the boys that Roxanne had become upset and run off. That's what he said. He's like, oh, she took off. So that's what the boys thought happened. Now, he said they searched for the girl at that point.

They drove around looking for her. And then he took Charles and Frankie home. So that was that. And so that 10-year-old kid who was chopping wood, these are the three guys that asked if he'd seen a girl running around here. So it's a white car. He said, red or white, it's white. So then he tells the officers here that he returned to the mountain after he dropped the kids off to check and see see if roxanne was alive okay i'm gonna check on her he said at that time he saw a small amount of blood on the right side of her face

and although he could hear no heartbeat he tried to revive her by dragging her down to the creek and putting water on her face oh my god so that didn't work so then he took her to the car and put her in the car again takes her to the telico river this time and tries to revive her by washing her face with cold water deeper water need deeper water that'll help yeah then he drove around telico he says looking for the chief of police chief i got a dead girl in the car you want to take a look at this looking for him hello didn't stop by the police station which is the first place i'd look for i'd start there i'd start there you could probably ask where's chief you know where he is started but he said he drove around couldn't fucking find her i mean she's couldn't him

couldn't find chief of police anywhere so he's like i guess i gotta keep this dead girl for a while because i can't find him i mean shit he said he carried roxanne to his house at this point um then he tried to revive her and how he does this is he got a cloth and poured some rubbing alcohol on it and tried to like give him like wake her up like a smelling salt yeah and put it on her face smelling salts rubbing alcohol that's where the acetone and all that comes from inhalation of the fumes um there he got no response at that point still is is, according to him, not positive she's dead, by the way. Has no idea, but he's like, well, I don't know. That didn't work.

I guess I'll bury her. I guess I'll take her to the hospital or I'll go find that chief of police. He's like, well, I tried. That's all the medical intervention I'm capable of. I guess I'll bury her now. Ain't nobody else around here. That's all we got. He dug a grave,

uh, part with tools, part with his hands. He said that, at that point he said he removed her pants and her blouse. I guess the G he dropped her jean jacket around her face is how that works. The jeans were over there. He,

uh, then he says he removed her pants. He said her blouse was unbuttoned because he decided to burn her clothes, but then changed his mind. It's not because he raped her before he killed her or anything. None of that stuff, you know. He said that, quote, he was not sure, but that Woodson could have been alive when he buried her. That's the other thing.

Didn't really check that much. Just decided it's way big, too big of a hassle to get her back to life and get her conscious. So I'll just bury her. She won't reanimate. So here's the thing. just decided it's way big too big of a hassle to get her back to life and get her conscious so i'll just bury her and she won't reanimate so here's the thing this story already just i mean at first with everything that had happened up until he just said i don't know if she was alive or not uh all that you weigh is that first degree or second degree what could be then he says i don't know that if she was alive or dead when i buried her murder done done rock him up throw away keys never to see the streets again that's a murderer see ya see ya asshole he then he then said that he admitted slapping her two or

three times while they were in the car but said quote he's only playing with her just slap around teenagers that you're trying to have sex with when you're 26 that's normal right yeah i've already while they were in the car but said quote he's only playing with her just slap around teenagers that you're trying to have sex with when you're 26 that's normal right i've already baptized her god he then said that all right i know this sounds not all the parts connect he said once i receive some psychiatric treatment i'll tell you how roxanne really died that's what he said and that's the old that's that's his story i already know p.s yeah we know what the fuck happened so it's pretty terrible boys disappeared he raped her she tried to get away he smashed her head and then took the boys home that yeah that's about it so that's that's here we go this is uh now the boys here's their story charles charles by the way dit is charles i think is his real name and then uh we have frankie harris and his cousin here so

um anyway um they said that they were all hanging out same thing in the beginning they uh end up hanging out with him um according to charles while frankie and wilbur went inside to make a phone call this is when joe shepherd uh this is after this is when they're stopping at people's houses they telephone the girlfriend judy and all of that they go inside to make the phone call remember that to see if judy can come out and play uh or they'll say that they're on their way at that point joe took out a large hunting knife from under the car seat and after playing with it for a while quote brushed roxanne across the breast with the weapon oh god this is horrifyingly threatening about that time frankie and wilbur returned to the

car with some pills and then they went to teleco that's why they call him Pig because his name is Wilbur? Wilbur Pig. Hilarious. Pig. Pig. That is amazing. Yep. That's pretty fucking awesome. Because of Green Acres, right?

Isn't that the pig? Isn't that? No, isn't that Charlotte's Web? Charlotte's Web. That's what it is. Yeah. He's some pig. That boy is some pig. let me tell you what amazing and is charles a junior is charles a junior i don't know if charles is a junior i'm wondering if that's why they call him dit like ditto maybe that's possible or it's like it might

have been it might have been dip shit shortened the the dip. And then they called him dit. Who the hell knows at this point? These fucking people are out of their minds. So anyway, they drove to a steel bridge where they sat and talked for a few minutes. About eight o'clock, Judy and and Pig began to quarrel. And that's when they walked back down. They told him pick them up later. The remaining members of the group decided to drive back to Teleco. They reached Teleco Beach, the diner.

That's when Joe Shepard turned up Old Furnace Road instead. They were all supposed to go to the diner. They drove about a mile. That's when he stopped the car and approached Roxanne about having sex with him again. I'm sure in a very polite and kind way. She refused. He persisted for several minutes, but she continued to say no.

Now, according to Charles Bovard here, Joe then leapt into the back seat where she Roxanne was sitting with Frankie and wrestled with her until everyone else got out of the car because they were freaked out. Right. So then Frankie calmed Roxanne down, who was crying and hysterical, you know, because a giant old man psychopath just jumped on her. Joe walked up to Roxanne at this point, who was out of the car, went and consoled,

walked up with a pistol. This is the toy pistol from the dashboard that he said he just played with and said, quote, if you don't show, if you don't shut up, I'm going to blow your brains out. Oh boy.

Somehow the younger boys then convinced Roxanne to get back in the car. What the fuck? How? How did they convince her, man? They should get jobs and sales, these two. Holy shit. They convinced her to get back in the car. They drove further up the mountain, stopped a second time in an area that had been clear-cut.

So there was an open area here. Frankie Harris then says that it was at this stop, not the first one, that this is where their tails are a little different. Because this guy, Frankie Harris said this is where he pulled the gun, not the first one, whereas the other kid said it happened on the first one. But they both say the exact same thing happened, just a different time. So someone misremembered a time. That's fine.

Both say the exact same thing happened, just a different time. So someone misremembered a time. That's fine. So they said that Joe left the car, asked the boys to walk down the road a little bit while he talked to Roxanne to calm her down so she would, quote, not call the law on him. Yeah, the law. So he's trying to get her not to call the law. They walk a short distance down the road, took a leak, returned in about five minutes. During this time, they heard the times.

Charles said he heard the sounds of a scuffle and heard Roxanne say loudly, quote, you son of a bitch. She's a badass. I love it. They got back to the car. She's not taking any of his shit. They got back to the car the two boys and neither joe nor roxanne were around a minute later he came running out of the woods and told him that roxanne had thrown a comb at him and run off a comb um they called roxanne along the road and you know all that shit they got back into the car continued to search they asked a man uh at the only house on the road if he had seen a girl walking by that's

the 10 year old not a man um they said no they continued back toward but i guess if you're 13 i don't know it's all the same probably sees himself as a man and that's a peer so yeah that's it they go pick up wilbur and judy they drop everybody off everybody takes them all home um he also tells them to keep quiet about what happened tells the boys the next day roxanne's father came to frankie and charles the homes of frankie and charles looking for roxanne right and that's when the massive uh effort started um a bloodhound was taken to the spot where he said that she's where he said he stopped the car a second time they took an ascent from an article of roxanne's clothing the dog tracked the path from the area where the car had

been parked into a brush pile about a hundred yards away and then no trail was found from the brush pile in any other direction okay um they also noticed uh uh an indentation in the pile and it was evidence that the brush pile had been disturbed. I think that she got thrown there, which is probably where he tossed her while he told the kids, hey, I don't know what's going on. I'm going to take you guys home. Then he goes back and found her. So they arrest Joe for murder. They're like, your stories do not match up, and you just told us you may have buried a teenager alive have no idea may have buried an eighth grader alive let's just say that we're not doing that so he's arrested um obviously

he is uh moved to the athens jail quote for safekeeping you know i want to keep him away from shit the locals are pissed they want they want blood from this fucking guy. I mean, it's big time. So, 1978 here, while he's in jail for safekeeping, they discover a tunnel. He tried to dig a tunnel. What the fuck? From the Monroe County Jail out. This is before they brought him to Athens.

That's why they brought him there, because he tried to tunnel out of the Monroe County Jail out. This is before they brought him to Athens. That's why they brought him there, because he tried to tunnel out of the Monroe County Jail. He had almost completed a hole from his cell through the wall to the hospital cell next door when he was found out. So he almost did it. Unbelievable.

So during all this, it's April 17th, 1978. Everything's going crazy about Roxanne. And this is when the police receive an anonymous call saying um that guy you have um that's not the only girl he killed ask him about a girl named kathy clowers oh boy so they go in there and go hey joe a little chat with you if you could any idea who kathy clowers is yeah joe's eyes bulge out of his fucking head and he goes oh shit um he said he says tell you what i'll help you oh he says um i knew kathy

he says i knew her yeah i knew her kathy by the way was 15 years old also 15 years old when she went missing in 1976 she was 15 years old he says listen i do know her as a matter of fact i know her so well i know where she's buried and i'll take you to her okay so he led them right to the spot he led a whole team and we i've seen i watched this video that kelly cochran lunatic i watched like all her interrogation. She's fucking she's a psycho. Oh, man. Is she crazy? Yeah. Wow.

They took her on an expedition and they have it on video of all them all walking through the woods in Michigan. She's she's saying there was a gun there, which they never found because she was a liar. So anyway, they take they go right to the spot the uh the police officer says quote we walked about a hundred yards along a branch joe stopped and said quote dig here he walked right to it so uh the grave site here that they find is just off highway state highway 68 between corker creek and farmer at the edge of Cherokee National Forest. It's in Polk County, about two miles from the Monroe Line. So the police, they start digging, by the way, with a pickaxe.

If you think there's a body under there, would you use a pickaxe? Wouldn't you be more gentle than that? I'd want to use a hairbrush. Yeah, get somebody from the museum out here, for fuck's sake. They use a pickaxe. Eventually, the pick out here for fuck's sake they use a pickaxe eventually the pickaxe picks up because they don't even know if they don't know if he's full of shit or what they have no they think maybe he's full of shit yeah it picks up a piece of red cloth and it said that kathy was wearing red when she went missing stop digging now they look up at him and he goes see told you oh like real cocky they said too like he was super proud

of it and shit so they began digging uh by 5 18 they found that by five they've dug and found one femur almost immediately yeah by 5 36 they had uncovered two leg bones and a skull there was a blue cloth material lying under the right leg, none under the left. The body took about 20 minutes to pull it all out. The head was lying to the northeast, lying on its back. The pants are pulled off. The zipper is unzipped about two-thirds of the way. The zipper is on top of the pants.

They're jeans. The legs are wrapped around her head. That sounds familiar. Den denim wrapped around the face that's not gonna keep her head warm that's a signature chief that's what that is that's a trail of anybody you find with jeans wrapped around their face that's you asshole i mean that's your guy um so the legs are wrapped around like i said her bra is under her left elbow. Reddish colored shirt still on the skeleton because it's a skeleton. Now it's been there for two years.

They said the shirt is made of stretchy material, about like the material a T-shirt is made of. The shirt has white snaps on it and some are rotted off. The right lower molar next to the back is missing. The front right tooth is chipped. One red snap clothes label is found uh her underwear are under under her um also and uh yeah they said that um uh he just told her that they told him they're up this she's up this stream let's go and they did it uh id'd by dental records because otherwise it's a skeleton right no other id except for the clothes and hasty ass dig dude for you yeah you're destroying evidence they destroyed evidence doing that 20 minutes is way too fast you better take hours for

that to get the bones and get everything yeah plus you want to be careful you want to get all the bones so you know her family could fucking bury them for christ's sake you know things like that you want to take a little extra care you may want to take a little care so you know that you didn't break that it was broken by something else like jesus christ fellas slow it down slow down chief uh no evidence of cause of death on the skeleton no gunshots no stab marks on the bones uh none of that no broken bones nothing skeleton looks pristine uh they said obviously they noticed right away when the pants are wrapped around the skull they were like oh that's your thing like oh shit you know um then they hear from around the way the same type of anonymous tips uh

that they're probably the bodies of at least two other young girls out here. Oh, dear Lord. So the district attorney said, we will continue digging to see what we come up with. But they all have jeans wrapped around their head, too. That's right. Joe gives a statement about the whole thing. This is his statement, talking about, Jesus, this is horrible,

Kathy Clowers here. Quote, me and Kathy went by Mickey Ehlers and got some dope. Blot acid, TEA. What the fuck is TEA? That's called T. T, but in all capital letters, it stands for something.

What is C-O- What is C-O-F-F? No. TEA. I don't know what the fuck that, what drug that is. I hope it'd be great if he was like we went and got some some english breakfast that was good shit man i like the chamomile that's the bump so got some dope which in this case i'm going to assume is heroin or something of the

heroin because that's what you'd call dope and with all the other shit it's all other stuff that somebody else might call dope so blot acid tea marijuana then went to the self-service station in teleco there we talked to harry franklin and nicky cooper that's the harry franklin from roxanne woodson night and we was all going to party past corker creek i my car i left parked on corker on cockeroker Creek. We were in Harry's car. Harry was like 13 at the time. How the fuck did Harry have a car? And this dude's like 24.

Yeah. What do you do? Yeah. Yeah. No, you drive seventh grader. Let's go. We were right. We were at the holler. We were at the hollow on the left after you go on the bridge and under the railroad going

up the hill to farm Farnerarner in polk county i was drinking and using the paper acid maybe it's better he's not driving everybody was taking it for at least an hour we had a fire built and lanterns hung up we left and went back to the roadside park at cocker creek beach and partied there for a while uh smoking and drinking billy jensen had to go home that's a shame poor billy we know billy jensen it's a shame he had to go home missed the party billy he missed the party he went home and started a podcast kathy flowers started looking for missing people maybe this is why he's like maybe it's like that

one night something bad happened billy you're not from the hills of tennessee are you kathy clowers harry franklin and nicky cooper stayed there after i came back they was partying really freaking out i left and went home harry and ricky came home the next day ricky had tore his transmission out they said they took her to the uh to woods truck stop i think when he, when he says her, I think he means the transmission, the car or the car. I asked Ronnie Garrett about it for a few days and he said he hadn't seen them. Four days later,

we were coming back to where she was buried. They said, here's dead man's curve. The next day we went back to check the grave to see if anyone had found it. So he skipped the part where he, where he killed them um so billy had been riding around with them uh and billy turned 15 by the way billy jensen at the time all 15 is like is when you age out of hanging out with this guy

i don't hang out with any squares jason we 17 fucking fart. He's an old fart. He said that to be Joe, he said it felt cool. It felt kind of adult like to be Joe's friend because he was an adult sort of. He said that Jensen liked to hang out with Joe. He said, though, he knew that he was like a dirtbag and a criminal and everything like that. But he thought it was he thought he was like a cool, older, cool guy. You know what I mean? But this particular night, Joe had went to billy and said do you know any girls i can get with any young girls he's he said quote do you know anyone i

could date that wouldn't know i was married because it's you know a town of 900 people so he asked jensen and jensen said that he asked him about girls on multiple occasions during this time frame. Always ask them about young girls. Billy said they were at Junior Shepard's car lot. And Joe was there. And I guess that's his brother or something. And wanted to know, again, if the young boy knew of any girls. So Jensen said no.

But a couple days later, they ran into each other at the Madisonville skating rink. Why is Joe hanging out at skating rinks and keg parties what are you doing you're too old for this it's gonna be a i ran into each other at build-a-bear and fucking uh he's getting younger and younger it's chucky cheese birthday party see that i'm convinced james i am convinced that people that drop out of school that young and are forced to be adults at a very young age. They feel like they're robbed of their childhood and they try so hard to live it by surrounding themselves and being in relationships with very young people. It's so fucked. I knew one of those.

I knew a kid who was 22 when we were all in 10th grade. His girlfriend was 15. Oh, God. yeah when his we were all in 10th grade his girlfriend was 15 oh god and her parents were fine with it because he had some crazy fucked up drug addict mother and like all of that all this horrible shit and then he moved in with like his aunt and uncle and like basically you know they this they like explained it like this girl explained it like he missed a few years of his life so in actuality he's really 15 so it's okay that's not what it is he's a grown fucking man no i get that he's fucked up but that doesn't mean that he can now bang you that's not fair i i get it he needs therapy you need a teenage

boyfriend this is bad it means what that means is you have to go on life uh yeah processing the robbery that you feel and you have to function in society that way that's called being an adult not fucking children because you missed out that's not oh that's not how it works and we were like yeah he's fine he buys beer i guess so i mean jesus christ so they run into each other at the skating rink, and Joe says, do you know any girls I can go with? And Billy said, no, I don't know. And he said, quote, I want someone who doesn't know me, wouldn't know I was married. So that day he actually had an idea for it. Jerry Clowers was at the car wash, and he had a younger sister named – or at the car lot, not the car wash and he had a younger sister named at the car lot,

not the car wash. He had a younger sister named Kathy Clowers. Jerry had wrecked his car recently and needed a ride, but he, um, so he got into the car with Joe and Billy. Billy talked to Jerry about them riding around and would Kathy want to come hang out too? Yeah. No, you, my little sister's not going to come hang out with some old man here. So Jerry said he'll have to ask Kathy.

And so they arrived there at the Clowers trailer. And Jerry went inside to see if, you know, you want to come ride around. Kathy said, sure. What the fuck? She wanted to get out of the house. What teenage girl wouldn't want a boy, girl, anything? You want to go ride around in a car and smoke cigarettes and stuff? Fuck yeah.

Rock and rock on devil horns. I'm out. Let's go. See, no responsibility. Get in the car and have less. Let's do it. Shit. Yeah.

She she's got some problems here. She's 15 years old. She has what they call limited academic abilities is what's called she's always in like uh she's she's a little slow in school and stuff like that um but she's not dumb or anything she seems normal but you know what i'm saying so they she's there they said you want to come ride around she says sure fucking hops in the car um then joe ride around she says sure fucking hops in the car um then joe says to jerry kathy climbs in the car and joe says to the brother jerry you can't go no i don't want you to see what i want to try to do to your sister yeah at that point i grabbed my sister and i go neither can she yeah i go or she

doesn't go so they get into a car it's a 1964 malibu with a black top is the car. Yeah, not bad, right? And Jensen and Joe, Billy Jensen and Joe and Kathy rode away, and that's that. He said that when they rode away, Afternoon Delight was on the radio coming out of the car. Gross. So also, Peggy Rainey they talked to. Peggy said, quote, Joe Shepard said there was a bunch of boys that had a girl out and she was on dope and that she was dead and that he got scared and left. He said that she was lying there dead. He told me that several times and that he would cry over it. Joe was down by the house every night except the night the Woodson girl was missing.

But he did drive by about 11 o'clock that night and hollered and blowed his horn. He hollered and blowed his horn, Jimmy. Hey! Beep, beep. Hey, motherfuckers! Beep, beep. The horn is enough. That's why you have a horn,

so you don't have to holler. And blow it. Before horns, people went, move your fucking car! Get the fuck, go that way! What the fuck are you doing? Then he went, beep, instead., move your fucking car. Get the fuck, go that way. What the fuck are you doing? That was, but then he went, beep, instead. It's a lot easier.

You don't have to do both. Hollered and blowed his horn. Blowed his horn, Jimmy. So he comes over. She said that, yeah, he comes over, blowed his horn. A week after this Woodson girl was missing, Joe Shepard come over to the house and was crying and wanted to talk to me and I was scared to talk to him. So, um, yeah, this is crazy.

Then she goes on, um, to say, um, oh, I'm sorry. Uh, yeah. Okay. They said that, uh, Jerry Clowers, they explained that whole story. Jerry Clowers, they explained that whole story. So, yeah, they said that later on,

the one guy, a friend of theirs, said that I heard later on that Kathy had been reported missing, and I went to Joe Shepard two weeks after this happened and asked if he had seen her, and quote, Joe told me she'd gotten into a car at a truck stop south of Madisonville with several boys and went to Florida. Okay, and in the 70s, I was like, maybe it's true. truck stop south of Madisonville with several boys and went to Florida. Okay.

And in the 70s, that was like, maybe it's true. People did that shit. It's such a bizarre story. It's so weird. They said the only thing they could get is that she had traces of the prescription drugs drug Sinequan, S-I-N-E-Q-U-A-n in her system it's a tranquilizer god that can kill you if you mix it with booze apparently too much uh but they don't know if that's what it is they said quote nobody knows for sure what killed kathy clowers they never ever find out they don't know um you

know that's just the way it is uh they don't know she She had been missing. The other thing, too, she wasn't reported missing for days. And then once she's reported missing, she's five foot tall, 15 years old, all this shit. They don't really look for her. It's not like Roxanne. There's no 100-person search party.

They just go, we heard she went to Florida. If she turns up, that's that. And they forget she existed. That's that. They just let it go. They don't even bring her name up and that's why i didn't bring her up yet in the story because they don't bring her name up she's completely irrelevant to everybody until they get it not that she is but in this to these people she is not interesting to law enforcement or people to report her until they hear that there's another girl dead that That's it. Wow. That's it. So he's charged with both murders at this point.

Now, this is when they also start hearing of, I'm not going to read these, but detailed, two detailed descriptions of women that he has sexually assaulted in the weeks before the murder of Roxanne. That are still alive? Oh, yeah. They're still alive. That he sexually assaulted them, dragged them into a car uh here's just a just a piece of one here as i was getting out of the car they hit me back in the back of the head with something that was black on one side and the other shiny scott carried me by my feet and gary held my arms and i was carried to the van i don't think we need any more than that oh my god my God. Yeah, this is fucking horrible.

Oh, the blonde boy stuck a knife in my neck and cut an X on my right leg above the knee. What the fuck? This is the type of shit they were doing. Yeah. I don't know if he's got this crazy fucking. Oh, my God. How is that? I don't understand the excitement of that. It's crazy.

Yeah, they fucking raped her at gunpoint uh he was the driver and the the whole thing it's fucking horrible a few days later um she said that i that a few days later i went by the jail and i saw joe shepherd this is after he was arrested yeah and he begged me not to tell not to tell on him and said he was sorry. Yeah, I bet he is. Yeah. So they have a hearing where they want to, the first hearing, his attorney says, move for dismissal. There's no evidence that she died of anything. They said there's no evidence that Roxanne Woodson died of anything other than a natural death. Okay, 15. Except for the fact that she's 15 and somebody buried her in a

shallow grave in their yard those are two things that say not a not a natural death usually very rare that people are buried in shallow graves who die of natural deaths it just doesn't happen that often um so the judge says the fuck out of here with that june or july 17th 1978 he's being held in the bradley county jail um there's a cell across the hall from him a guard is called there's a prisoner sick guard enters the cell the six prisoners cellmate holds a shank to his neck of course takes his keys those two prisoners lock his ass in the cell on their way out of the door on their way out of the jail they stop and unlock joe shepherd's cell as well because he was the one who thought of this whole thing and the three of them fucking run out because that was the only guy at the jail at the time they take off

the other inmates are captured a few days later joe is fucking gone wow thin. Thin air, poof, he's gone. The only time that he is seen is in October 1980 when they have a warrant for him in Illinois when he's charged with the attempted murder of a policeman. Yeah, a policeman here, Patrolman Roger Miller, apparently was pulled a car over with three men in it. What's up? King of the road. King of the road.

They just stopped to pull him over. This Miller was returning to his squad car to make a license plate check and was hit in the back by two.25 caliber bullets. Jesus. He got shot? Got shot. Then was shot again with another bullet the car sped away then turned around and drove back by the officer and fired at him again oh my god they want to make sure he's dead make sure he's dead uh he returned the fire and had some heard someone in the car say that they'd been hit somebody said ouch ah so yeah he was shot they said he was wearing

a bulletproof vest which saved his life and the fact that they were 25s and the smaller caliber helped a lot so they're still looking for joe in 84 okay and erin 81 there's people they get constant calls from residents saying they'd seen him too i seen him at the store i saw him at the post office there's reports that he's in El Paso, Texas. He's so dangerous and he could be anywhere. Anywhere. The attorney general said because of fear, a lot of people maintain surveillance and there's constant reporting. And there really was.

I mean, they said, quote, there's people up here are a little scared that he's going to come down here and get their kids or their daughters. Yeah, that's a very real thing here. Shepard's father said he's tired of being harassed. Joe's father said sons of bitches, sons of bitching whores, damn sons of bitching whores. He says they keep asking me. I told you I don't know whether he's alive, dead, where the fuck he is. He said, quote, you can call it whatever you want. Since last June, I told them to get out and stay out unless they had a search warrant.

Wherever I go, they follow me around wherever I go. How about have some aggravation about your son doing what he did, making us ask where these people are? That's totally, yeah. That would help. Can you help maybe since you seem to know him good? Totally, yeah. That would help. Can you help, maybe, since you seem to know him good?

So they said one guy here, one of the reporters for the newspaper, said it was probably throughout the 80s the single biggest mystery in Monroe County. I would say. It goes on for years, fucking years. And they were saying, is he hiding in the mountains? Is he getting help from people in the area to avoid police? Is he dead? Who knows? October 5 5th 1988 oh my god

he's not captured no he's featured on unsolved mysteries after 10 years robert stack talks about it's the first official episode of unsolved mysteries they have like seven episodes before it because i had to look it up to find where it was on YouTube, and that was like they were all specials. And then official season one, episode one is a Joe Shepard case. One of them. So they said they were very hopeful that Joe Shepard might be found after this. And they said on the show he'd last been seen in El Paso, Texas, and maybe living along the Mexican border.

They couldn't have been more opposite of where the fuck he actually was. Living in Maine by Canada. Worse. Shortly after the show airs, like within days, police in London, Ontario, Canada, receive a call that Joe's been living in Canada under the name James Joseph Trip. OK, they figure out it's him. They list him as an extremely dangerous killer, and he's arrested by five cops as he gets out of his pickup truck

to go into a grocery store. Good. They bum rush him. He was living in a townhouse with his common-law wife and their two kids. Oh, my God, that's so scary! Living like an upstanding life, too. Or maybe killing girls, but either way he he wasn't

hanging out with 15 year olds and doing acid i know that much uh turns out he was he he was he got to canada within days of escaping fascinating so we don't know if the he was id'd through police photos as a guy who shot the cop so the guy who shot the cop might even not have been him or he might have been back in town, back down for a minute or something. So who knows? The district attorney said, quote,

I understand he was pretty surprised when they arrested him. He tries to fight extradition for a minute, but it's not going to work. His neighbors in Canada knew him as a gentle family man who never touched a drop of alcohol, never so much as even a drop of alcohol, and often fixed their cars for free outside of his townhouse for them. Don't tell on me. Dude, I'm telling you, I'll blend right in.

He worked as a part-time laborer in an auto shop and did shit like that. One person, a neighbor, said that he was well liked in the complex quote he's kind he didn't do anything wrong whatever they say he's still our friend a good friend gross no how do you how could you what what are you talking about there's there's dead girls you guys stop being so candid and nice calm the fuck down that's how nice they are i don't care if he buried two girls alive hey it's not bad that was before we met he's been a great guy i'll tell you what he fixed my geo that's all that counts to me so vicky his common law wife said quote this is all kind of hard for me to swallow i've known him almost 11 years and i didn't have a clue about this he's so good with people, with the kids. Yeah, they have all sorts of kids here.

So she visited home over the weekend in jail, and she said, he's pretty upset. He didn't say too much. He did tell me what to do about the bills. So they drove home. They said while they were driving home, the officer said that he kept asking about those two boys, the ones he said yeah

the two guys he was with um the cop said i thoroughly enjoyed as crazy as it sounds driving all the way back with him so he was interesting to talk to um so the kathy clowers trial um the mother said that she couldn't even look at him the whole time. Couldn't look at him. Of course. She said he'd been gone so many years. He was gone for 10 years. And I thought to myself, well,

it will take a miracle to find that man. But the Lord caught up with him. So Robert Stack caught up with him. Let's be honest. Yeah. I mean, they, yeah,

there's unsolved mysteries. It took three, it took three days. They 10 years of searching nothing. Three days after robert stack goes get joe shepherd and he's fucking done so um she said don't nothing leave you there's not a thing there's nothing that hurts you worse so um she said that uh she's relieved and the whole family's relieved because they knew somewhere along the line justice would be done

jerry clowers the one who was told you're not coming, said, quote, I've been waiting for this day. I bet. He said, I always wanted to find him myself before anybody else did. Well, too late. Mrs. Esther House got him. Yeah, it's all good. Some fucking neighbor who brought muffins over. So he said that he himself would search around the area for him trying to find him because he wanted to find him.

Alice Clowers said, quote, This is the mom. She didn't deserve to be killed. She didn't deserve to die. A 15 year old kid. Lord have mercy. She never bothered nobody. So they tried to keep out the they tried to ask the jurors. Have any of you seen unsolved mysteries to get them excused? And the judge overruled that he wouldn't let them rule have any of you seen Unsolved Mysteries, to get them excused.

And the judge overruled it. He wouldn't let them rule out people who've seen Unsolved Mysteries. Yeah, because he was already arrested. It wasn't like this is before he was arrested, the media jumped on it. They arrested him. There was news stories everywhere. This is just another news story. So they said it doesn't have any other weight over anything else.

So the evidence here, they said it's it doesn't have any other weight over anything else uh so the evidence here they said that uh he's got he admitted it uh they get a former people heard that he admitted it he said he knew where she was buried you know it's obvious that he killed her here um former girlfriend uh said that uh her name is uh peggy stan. Peggy Raper Stanley is her name. Jesus Christ. She said she told him that she told the court that he had spoken of a girl who'd been killed by others and buried in the mountains. So that's what the defense is saying, that he just knew about it, but he didn't do it. Their closing argument. They said that Shepard became angry with Clowers when she resisted his sexual advances as they parked in the

woods that seems like the most likely thing six man six woman jury they deliberate for five hours and they find him guilty of second degree murder judge says you sir may fuck off 99 years oh

99 years for him. Not eligible for the death penalty because it happened in 76 before it was reinstated. So Alice, Clower's mother, said, quote, The family realized that they could not bring Kathy back, but they felt justice had been done. We're very satisfied with the judgment. Probably because you don't even expect anything's going to happen after that long. It happened 13 years before that. This is 91. trials are happening 99 years out of it that's pretty that's pretty good but on appeal the charge is lowered to involuntary manslaughter what

on lack of evidence of evidence they don't have they don't even know what happened to her so it's lowered to that but that's okay because. Cause this happens as well. April 91. He's the trial for Roxanne. This happened in 78 death penalty on the table. Now to, um, the defense attorney basically, uh, there,

he, his, their whole defense is quote. You need to focus what he says to the jury. You need to focus your mind on time. Was there time to rape? Was there time to kill? He's saying two boys peeing. time was there time to rape was there time to kill he's saying two boys peeing is that enough time to rape and kill a teenager i don't think so who

knows so you gotta find him not guilty um he says it's our contention that the only thing the state will be able to prove is that somebody is guilty of the illegal burial of a body even after all these years they will not be able to tell you how Roxanne Woodson died. But Frankie Harris and his cousin testify against him, tell the whole fucking sordid tale, knives and guns. It's not good. They find him guilty of murder. Now, the sentencing comes along and he tries to have some mitigation here. they talk about his being the poorest of 11 children his third grade education um achievement tests that they just took place him at the third grade level in reading and spelling and the fifth grade level in math so he's great he's improving

there yeah uh they said that he uh he was emotionally put down as a child, poor and uneducated, and also a very dependent person testing low in the dominance factor, saying he would never be a leader. They said he did not have sociopathic or antisocial personality disorder, and he was basically nonviolent. Now, they said that he'd been cooperative and not disruptive during his stay at the mental health facility prior to trial. So they said, you know, mitigating. They also get people from Canada saying what a nice guy he is. They have statements from there, from his new wife, every wall of his neighbors. What a great guy. Never touches a drop of alcohol.

Right. Wonderful man. Sentencing comes. The judge says, he has a statement before i get to you sir quote you do not possess any redeeming qualities and should not live among civilized people yeah you sir may fuck off death penalty wasn't buying any of that shit sounds to me like you are uh an old man uh who murdered that's granted you may have gotten docile in your old age but you're still a murderer you still killed

two girls at least two girls right two teenage girls um now later on though there is appeals and they overturn his sentence uh based based on the fact that what they used as an aggravating circumstance can no longer be used as one. There was some technicalities there. So he agrees to life without parole. If he will never do any more appeals is what they say. Basically like, Hey,

can we make a deal to save the state fucking hundreds of thousands of dollars? If you just say, just sit in prison. Yeah. Yeah. So 2009, they do an interview with him in prison. He said, it's prison. I read a lot.

I finished up getting my completion certificate, which is his GED. Yeah. He said he's, you know, he's doing, he's walks with a cane. Now he has a full beard. He said that they oftentimes do. he still denies killing the girls he said that it was the other the other kids he said quote they were the last with them he said they were making a they said they framed him the two boys framed him he said they were making a statement i guess they figured if they framed me they could get away with it and they

sure enough did didn't they a 15 year old and a 13 year old were smart enough to frame a 30 year old man for murder twice absolutely yeah oh twice yeah they were like let's make let's kill a girl and blame it on joe again um he says he remembers seeing her clower's body in the back of his car when he heard the two boys start saying that she was dead he said quote when i woke up they kept saying she was dead they just kept saying she was dead. He said, quote, when I woke up, they kept saying she was dead. They just kept saying she was dead. I tried to get them to take her to that hospital over in Copper Hill. It was only about 15 or

20 miles away, but one of them said he knew someone over there and he'd be recognized. So he said he just passed out again. He just fell back asleep, woke up later to the sounds of shovels digging. He said, I was in the car incapacitated but i could hear metal hitting rock and dirt um that is fucking insane so he also yeah they talk

about all this and he said that um he said that he should have been able to to to take a gun out on the cops too he said that uh they just came to my house and one of them opened fire he said i have a right to protect my family don't i no what what are you talking about then he went on to say that his oldest son was was quote was killed quote somebody run him over in the 80s okay um so yeah there's that and uh he was in jail and then august of 2010 joe dies in prison good yay he is uh 57 years old and died of natural causes oh you're an unhealthy motherfucker very young for natural shit to get you i don't know if he died of natural causes or if he had a disease and died and they were just like fuck him and they threw him in a hole and were like natural causes we didn't check

for anything fuck him um i have to give credit to a book it's not a great book at all it's a weird book it's a book where somehow they decided to tell this story as a grandfather telling this story to his grandchild i think think this is the Princess Bride? This is terrible. It's exactly introduced like the Princess Bride. I was just going to say, it's like Fred Savage is sitting there sick this day. It's fucking ridiculous.

As you wish. What the fuck? Bury this young girl for me. As you wish. That's how they do it. It's the strangest way I've ever seen a book written uh the only good thing about it is they have a couple of like exact police report like statements which is helpful so other than that it's a shit show it's called quote the bad shepherd joe shepherd's dash a serial

killer in the mountains and his predatory ways it It's a long fucking title. I'll sit there while I read this to you. Holy shit. That said, that is Teleco Plains, Tennessee, and the story of Joe Shepard and poor Roxanne Woodson and Kathy Clowers. And God knows there is more teenage girls buried in that one. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely there is.

He didn't deny it when they said they heard there was. He was like right yeah probably we'll talk about those later and they just never got around to it you know why it's because fred savage doesn't like the kissing part he's like oh i don't want to hear the kissing part oh come on kid what are you talking about it's a good it's a good you know you got to get to that it's a love story you know i got Columbo reading the fucking story to me. What do you want from me? Hold on.

You mind if I light this cigar up, kid? You're sick. It's not respiratory, right? No, it's a stomach thing. You'll be fine. You just got a fever? Sit back. I'm going to smoke this.

Sit back. Hold on. Let me light my stogie. I'll skip the kissing part if you allow me to smoke. If I can smoke my stogie. So there the kissing part if you allow me to smoke if i could smoke my stogie so there you go everybody teleco plains tennessee and quite the fucking tail i might add that is a wild ass story i mean that guy's a scumbag of the highest order you can't get any worse backwoods scumbag hillbillory than this shit fucking stain asshole it is amazing how

many serial killers were in the 70s staggering this guy absolutely had he had a signature and everything if they found more girl like think about if they would have found all the girls he killed they all had jeans wrapped around him you'd know his fucking name today is the fucking jean face killer or something. The Wrangler. Yeah. The Wrangler. Levi Strauss and murder is what it would be called. So there you go, everybody.

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The whole bonus catalog, Crime and Sports bonus, Small Town Murder bonus, the back stuff, everything. This week is going to be awesome. We have, first of all, for Crime and Sports, which you're going to want to hear, we have a guy who wrote a book, spent 15 years writing a book, an investigator, researched, really put a lot into this. The name of the book is called, quote, O.J. is innocent and I can prove it! Exclamation point. He's the man who is the author of the Jason Simpson theory, the one that the son actually killed him. And we'll talk about some of his points that are pretty good points and some of his points that are really asinine at the same time and we'll see if you think that oj's innocent maybe we it's

a whole it's a whole new thing it's a bold claim it's a bold claim you can check it out and find out though and then for small town murders we're going to do something we have so much fun doing and people have been requesting for weeks now so we got've got to do it. The Love During Lockup season recap. We're going to talk about crazy people that find people in jail. It doesn't work out well most of the time this season. We'll talk all about that. That'll be a lot of fun. And then we'll have to do a prisoner dating game coming up soon, too.

Can't wait. So lots of good stuff lined up. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Get it all right now. That said, Jimmy, I'd like to hear a listcom slash crime and sports get it all right now that said jimmy i'd like to hear a list of the people who have gotten it all and we'll be enjoying these patreon episodes this weekend jimmy hit me with the names of these wonderful wonderful people right now this week's executive producers are jason roberts mason mills jordan bennett laurie pietz pete's pites uh max with no last name, Mortal Coil Serpenti, I think,

Samantha Anderson, and Kevin Blankenship. You guys are fucking unbelievable. Thank you immensely. Thank you. Honestly. Forever. The bottom of our hearts. Truly.

You're amazing. You mean everything to us. Thank you. Other producers this week are Christian's ex, Elena. Happy birthday, Elena. to us thank you other producers this week are christian's ex elena happy birthday elena uh i don't yeah i guess you're friends enough to where you still talk that's rad i can't do it i'm incapable yeah right uh corporal carl kersner liz vasquez james martyr peyton meadows heather hayes sean flanagan jeff shrewsbury tony sim from Scotland, Akira happy birthday, Akira Marta?

Yeah, that's Marta with an exclamation point. Not mortal. Marcel Destin, Paul Ruest, Sparky Big Time. Sparky Big Time. Gross. He needs to know Patreon, dammit. Melissa Spears in Melbourne, Joey Pepperoni Nips

and the kids at Dakota Digital. It's fucking great janice hilt frank do you want to say something to joey oh i thought you were gonna we know we really appreciate joey pepperoni nips every time it comes in sarah laughs and goes joey pepperoni nips again and we laugh it's just the only name we've ever laughed at in years it's just so stupid it strikes us as funny i don't know and i. And I can see them. I can see them. Yeah, you can see them. And there's oil built up on them, you know, like that.

I want to know, are they the size or just the color? What is it? I think it's the color and the oil content is what it is. It's not even the size. Perhaps it's the taste. It's the taste. Oh, it's very spicy. Got a spicy element to it.

That's possible, too. Janice Hill Frank, african bird washer florence uh fullerton uh happy birthday kenny mom dad and kim said so happy birthday jared hohey centeno kennels in canada adopt don't shop yeah tracy poets potes uh samantha quigley william powell Max Lode, Gross, Dorothy Harkins, Carrie Kahn, Ashley Haston, Mitchell, oh boy, Mal Herbie, Michael Davis, Ryan Horan, Catherine Ann, Alyssa Boring, Joshua Hopper, JR3308, Aislinn Kay, Kenny Stewart, Isaiah Zilka, Lauren DeCheria, Kevin DeVincenzo, Matthew Sawyer, Tabitha Bauer, Jolie Bonanno, Candy Fitzhugh, Will Stagemann, Joanne Carrington, Madison Waldrop. Reagan Waldress. Andrus. Andrews. Jesus. Guido Pelagos.

Pelagos. Lindsay Broswell. Bill Joe. Bill Joe Jones. Bill Joe is so much harder to say. Kaylee with no last name. Stephanie McClain. Heather Johnson.

Heather Elick. Okay. Blueberry the Pug. Nicholas Chandler. Rachel Shaw. Blake James Blake James, Samuel Woolrub, Braden Odenhall, Shane Boo, Megan Kemp, Lee Hill, David Falbo, Ben Manson, not related, Bryce with no last name, Kaylee with no last name. Mo McRae. Nikki Comer. Jens. Is it Jens? Van Migro. Is it Jens like plural or is it Jens?

Jens? I don't know. Let's go with Negro on that one. No, Migro. I'm kidding. That was a joke. With an M. I know.

That was a joke. Like you were trying to say the Spanish. Never mind. I was making sure you heard what I said. Yes, I did. I was trying to pick on you. I wanted your face to get that color, which is red. I didn't say that, did I?

That's not me. For no reason? Listen, you want to talk about Hitler for a little bit? Yeah, exactly. What are you busting out with, Bobby? That's a crime and sports reference for small town murder people. Leanne Lardner donated both ways. No. Oh, thank you. Two people. Leanne Lardner donated both ways. No.

Oh, thank you. Two patrons. Oh. Leanne Lardner. She has two patron accounts. Well, thank you. You're so nice. Jerry Gentry, Sarah Sampson, Nicole Thompson, Katrina S., Dave Mariner, Sebastian with no

last name, Landon Cantrell, Echo with no last name, Aidan McDonald, Alex B., Jordan with no last name, Michaela Cardner. What? Yeah. Cardin. Christine Priest-Newchins, Jean-Christin, Jean maybe, Annie Skilton, Ian Avery, Amber Cronin, Renee Eisen, Sandy Hoven, John Flynn, Leah Ahern, Basia, Riley, Michael Schaefer,

Steve Teft. Josh Shearer. Penelope with an M. No last name. No, that is the last name. Caitlin with no last name. Connor Brady. Lily Shore.

Ashley Claussen. Amber Seidnitzer. Aiden Flaherty. Katie Windholm. Michael Wilson. Alicia Krause. Laura Lambert. Josh Casey,

Jean-Ives Lafond, Chris Ann Ferguson, Randy Martinez, Amy Arley, Kristen Twitty, Amy Comer, Ken Coopers, I think, Ethan Rose, Joe with no last name, Heather Siri, Tamara Tamera, Ellis, Jay Bug, Bobby Joe, Allison Parker, Jason DeForest, Andrea Becerra, Grace Sweeney, Holly G, Sheena Canoy, Wolfie Metalworks, Alexandra Hartung, Jessica Richardson, Pat and Robin, Al Dinkla. I'm doing, I'm working so hard. Rebecca Lissimore, Kath Ozog, Jen Beers, Amy Lemieux, Inga Bischoff, Brian with no last name, Michaela Jordan, Nicole Arnell, Daniel Miles-Varali, Juniper Saluski, William Dixon, AC, Wayne Patterson, Tommy Pinkley, Rick Bryant, Lieutenant Dan's Legs, P.S. That's nice of them to get back with us. It's easy to read.

Angela Jackson, Ashley Morrison, Joe Beckett, Michelle Hornberger, Jillian with no last name, Corey Gower, Margie Mulder-Rothmayer, Janine with no last name, Chandler Whitney, Sam Winterer, Nick Rarby, Shauna with no last name, Brian Dillon, Christina Chmieluski, rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr rr Dylan Burns, Elise Poulin, Amber with no last name, Darren Hodgkins, Cain with no last name, Jennings, what, Socorso, McCoy, Dylan Davis, June Dye, Marnie Wiltrout, Brent, nephew, Jody Bolvinoski, Crumble K, Kyle Metcalf, Meg Hauser, Ryan Wendt, Tyler Sigvalston, he who cringes at the sound of urine hitting water, Blaine Jackson, Kelsey Cox, Karen Heinrichs-Lukes, Travis Manning, Jacob Elijah, Maya Rubelard, Nicole Potter, Jesse White, Carla Spence, Jeremy with no last name, Craig Widgkins, Boss Hogg, Norma with no last name, Nolan Wilson, Reva Walker, Justin Miller, Ryan Schlichenmayer, Sherry Velez, Brent SPL Special, and Frazier and all of our patrons. You guys, you're truly incredible.

Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. We, from the bottom of our hearts we cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us and if you want to find us there's easy ways to do that oh yeah google the show small town murder podcast so the easiest way shut up and give me murder.com links to everybody on there you can follow us on social media and find us and it's a good time and uh yeah it was a good time boy did i have a fun fun way this has been great fun week hearing about terrible things and we'll be back

every damn week after this and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.