Small Town Murder - #268 - A Diabolical Death Parade - Machiasport, Maine

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

This week, in Machiasport, Maine, a feud between two families grows out of control, when one 4th parties, who happens to be a heavily armed, wild, paranoid man, who trains his young sons, in case of an "attack on the house". Small things escalate the tensions, until everyone is armed, and dangerous. This leads to a day of video taped violence that can't be described in terms of mere brutality, but it still has people talking, to this day! Along the way, we find out that there are easier ways to call seagulls than with your voice, that secret passageways are never a sign of sanity, and that when your neighbor shines airplane landing lights on your house, you should just move Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Maciasport, Maine, a bubbling feud between two families leads to a day of videotaped violence that is so remarkably brutal and insane that people have never

stopped talking about it. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today jimmy is distracted because we're trying to figure out the pronunciation of this town he's literally looking it up right because we've it's mckay sport or mckay sport we're not sure what it is sport we've seen it's crazy so we have no idea either way it'll be said in a weird main accent where it'll be like machias port and you wouldn't know what it was anyway some guy whittling on the porch yeah so doesn't matter either way welcome and thank you for joining us we are

very excited today for this episode this is a really really really crazy one this is like a i don't even know how to describe this well never mind i won't describe it we'll just get into the episode here quickly though thank you for your reviews this week they do help a lot so thank you for whatever platform you're listening on also head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now so much stuff on there first of all you're going to get all of your merchandise tons of new stuff up i I know. Sarah making designs, all sorts of cool stuff on there. And as well, live show tickets. You want those. Hell yeah.

We are April 8th, April 9th. We're in Pittsburgh and Columbus, respectively. Columbus, Ohio. That's like two weeks away. It's like two weeks away. There's some tickets left. Get your tickets right now to those because it's going to sell out probably pretty soon here. So thank you so much for that.

We're excited to go to those places and get your tickets for the rest of the year. We have Detroit. We have- Cincy and Detroit are up next. Those are sold out. A lot of these are sold out coming. New Orleans, looking at you. Florida, we're going to Florida. Tampa and Orlando later on, get your tickets there. Those I know, San Francisco, still tickets left I know. So those are most of the rest of them are sold out. But you can find your tickets. Thank you for doing that.

Patreon this week is cooking. Oh my goodness is it funny. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Anybody $5 or above you're going to get access to what Jimmy? Oh everything James. Everything. God damn it. Small town murders bonus episode. Crime and sports bonus episodes. The whole back catalog. You got over a hundred of them on James. Everything. Oh, God damn it. Small Town Murders bonus episode, Crime and Sports bonus episodes, the whole back catalog.

You got over 100 of them on there. Everything. All of it. If we make it, you're going to hear it. This week, Crime and Sports. It's a fire sale. Fire sale. You want everything?

Give us $5. You can have everything. You can have it all, including personal ads this week on Crime and Sports, which is the best one we've done so far, by far, I think. And the people so far have backed us up on that. They agree. Very funny stuff. And for Small Town Murders, we talked about the Tinder swindler documentary

and just the whole deal there. And we got into Anna Delvey as well because of the whole scamming thing. And it's awesome. It's very funny. It's too similar. Check it out, patreon.com slash crime and sports and you're gonna get a shout out at the end of the show where your name will be mispronounced horribly much like we're mispronouncing the name of this town sport machiasport mckeesport

so uh either way disclaimer this is a comedy show we don't claim to know how to pronounce town names or anything of the sort uh don't tweet it god damn no we don't care that's the thing we don't know and we probably don't need to know right the murder is the important part so anyway there you go it's a comedy show we're comedians nothing is made up this is unfortunately all of the shit we talk about is completely real and it's actually happened in the world so it's crazy we don't celebrate it that's not the point that's not what we think is funny we're not into the murder porn thing of and is completely real and it's actually happened in the world. So it's crazy. We don't celebrate it. That's not the point. That's not what we think is funny.

We're not into the murder porn thing of, and then her head was removed from her body. That's just weird. And we're not into that. That's why we make jokes to try to kind of lighten the mood. But what we do, what we never do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims families. Why is that James?

Because we're assholes. Yes. But we're, but we're not scumbags that's the deal that works if that sounds good to you welcome aboard you're going to hear an insane story if not if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together maybe you shouldn't listen or maybe you should and it's not as bad as you think it's not that bad it's not that bad small town murder it's not that bad they've had a t-shirt that's our t-shirt right there so uh for everybody who wants to hear a great story that's

not that bad yeah i think it's time to sit back clear the lungs jimmy let's do it and shout shut up and give me murder let Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We're going all the way across the country. We did Arizona last week. We are going all the way to Maine this week. I love Maine.

And this is as far to the east as you can get in this country without being in Canada. Okay. That's it. It's Machiasport, Machiasport, or Machiasport. One of the three, Maine. M-A-C-H-I-A-S-P-O-R-T. You will find multiple pronunciations. Good luck.

This is, you know how Maine, northern part of Maine juts out big into Canada there? Well, this is where it comes down and connects. It's the farthest east. If you go just a little more to the northeast along the water, you will hit Canada. It's just right there. It's right at the tippy tip.

Tippy, tippy tip over there. Down east, I guess you'd say. It's about an hour 50 to Bangor, Maine. About 340 to Portland, Maine. Oh, love that. Maine, about 340 to Portland, Maine. Oh, wow. Love that.

And two hours and 29 minutes to Heartland, Maine, which was our last main episode, episode 210. So it's been a while. That was a secret in every hole, which there was a lot of. That's gross. It's pretty gross. And the episode was gross. I know. Very good episode, though.

So this is in Washington County area. A lot of Washington. How many have we covered there? Washington and Jackson County are in this area, too, because it's New England. I'm sure I'll bet you there is. Fuck, I'll launder. I'll bet the list of things named Washington in this general area is disgusting. It's a lot.

The county will start with area code 255. The the 250th anniversary of the town. they adopted the motto, Macias Port Pride, then and now. Okay. Which there isn't even anything to make fun of on that. It's just boring. It's just a lame, boring thing here. That's it. Great.

History of this town quickly. It started out in 1633 when the Plymouth Company established a trading post here to conduct business with the Native Americans. But France considered this theirs. Their shit, yeah. Because it was by Canada. That's why it's that Machias shit. It sounded French. Possibly, yeah. Maybe that's the origins here.

So in 1634, the trading post was sacked by french forces wow the french being aggressive this is sacked something there's this and napoleon and that's it for french aggression from they got fucked down out there's people in england clapping right now if you want if you want english people to like you just be like man fuck france and they're like yes they'll pick you up and hug you and it's the most exuberant you'll see an englishman unless their soccer team wins just hate france um but i'm just picking on them anyway so port roy uh french forces from port royal under the command of Charles de Saint-Étienne de la Tour. It's a long name. Étienne de la Tour. That sounds chocolatey.

Yeah, he sounds like there's a chocolate company. Yeah. The Étienne de la Tour company. The commercial is the chocolate being poured over. The drizzle day. One of those nut centers, like a macadamia nut center. So in 1770, the area was granted by the Massachusetts General Court to people as a town. And it became a town officially, Maciasport, in 1826.

And in 1775, the capture of the British ship HMS Margareta by the locals here. The residents built, they captured the ship and then they built kind of a guard, like a fort almost. And so they ended up making a fort actually here. They had Fort O'Brien in 1781. And yeah, during the Civil War too, there was I think, they trained people up here or something. It had something to do with that. Yeah. Reviews of this town.

Let's see here. Here we go. Here's five stars. And these reviews are going to be mixed between Machiasport and just straight Machias, which is Machias or Machis or Machis or whatever the fuck it is. We don't even see it, so we don't know. That's the little more inland version of this. so uh anyway here's five stars machias or machias or machias is a wonderful little town full of friendly neighbors and quaint little stores it's everything you would picture a small rural town to be being so close to the ocean shellfish and fish are plentiful along with the

great north woods that also has plenty of game to offer. This is a great place to raise a family or vacation. Yeah. Wow. That is like you could see the images of like, you know, swooping over the forest and, you know, people pulling like 12 pound shrouds out with their bare hands. I'll tell you, though, man, that there is nothing like that. That New England. It's beautiful. It is fascinating. It's great. Good. That seafood is. hands i'll tell you though man that there is nothing like that that new england uh it's beautiful it is fascinating how good that seafood is i like my stuff briny so that's i like this i

like the east coast stuff better like oysters and stuff oysters they're insane i like the brine that's good shit the saltiness of it uh here's four stars rural machias port mckee's machias Four stars. Rural Machiasport, Machiasport is a gorgeous area. Teeming. Teeming with wildlife. Teeming. Just pouring out of the trees. So much. And fabulous hiking trails.

We live on a peninsula just southwest of this town, whatever the name of it is. The M-town. Yeah. Oh, M-town. M-port. There we go. Just southwest of M-port. The cool go. Just southwest of M-port. The cool breezes in the summer cannot be beaten.

And they actually made a smiley face out of a colon and a parenthesis there. Clear water is fabulous for kayaking or paddle boarding. The people are friendly and down to earth, but are traveled and interesting. It's a fabulous place, especially in the summer and fall. Yeah. So, man, this is like heaven here. Let's see some people who didn't think it was heaven. Two stars.

I have lived in M-Town my whole life, and I am completely ready to move away. Okay. There is absolutely nothing to do around here, and for teenagers especially. If we want something to do, we have to travel an hour or so to the movies, Walmart, etc. Completely and absolutely. Completely. If you're a teenager, the outdoors don't quite do it for you unless you have drugs, you know what I mean, or a keg or something. You need something to catch your attention.

The outdoors is so much more fun when you're fucked up. Yeah, it's made for that. People camp to go drink in the woods i thought smoke weed without being annoyed yeah when i hear stand-up comics talking about how awful it is to camp and pretend you're homeless i'm like dog that's not the reason we're there but you if only there was a place in america you were allowed to drink what are we talking about there's bars on every corner your your house, the grocery store. You can drink and buy shit anywhere.

Yeah, but it's the outdoors and being fucked up while you're outdoors. It's awesome. You don't need to shit in a hole to get that experience, though. That's the difference. There's no cap in this hole. It's not good. Hobo fantasy cap. Just don't go so far from home that you've got to stay there overnight.

Oh, yeah, That's not good. Here's two stars. Drug overdoses in this area have peaked to an all-time high. Oh. No pun intended, they actually say. Jesus. That is high as fuck. There have been several of our young people from this community die recently, and the

police have yet to hold the people responsible for peddling this poison to our children. Damn peddlers, hippies, beatniks. These damn beatniks. It's just the way they say it. It's just funny. In the meantime, the crime rates are up from the ones that get addicted to support their habits, which in turn places them in a total lose-lose situation, while the drug dealers profit and prosper. Disgusting. Yeah.

My God. Why don't you tell your kids, miss that? Jesus. Yeah. Wow. Okay. People in this town, population is 961. So it's a small little town here.

It is 59% male. That's wild. I don't know how the fuck that works, man. Median age is 48.8, so way older than normal, which is strange. A good amount of old people here, though. It's an older crowd. Teaming with wildlife, too. Seeing a deer is more frequent than seeing a woman.

It seems only 40%, and they're all older. This is not a good place to be a young man or woman it's tough well young woman you're in demand kids don't move she's drinking she's drinking from the creek wait stop don't spook no don't spook her she's drinking from the creek just watch just just can you just watch jesus let nature be nature get away don't be weird Let nature be nature. She's going to get away. Don't be weird.

Don't be creepy. So it's 29. Oh, here we go. Not a lot of single with children either. So it's either older or they're married. Race of this town, 91% white. It is 3% black, though, which I'm actually very surprised. For a rural main town way out here, that seems like more not that that's even close to the average but just seems like more than we'd expect from experience with our show here

so uh we have 2.9 percent hispanic and 0.4 percent asian that's how that's working religion in this town it's so beautiful here people are just like no we don't don't. Do I need God? Sunrise. That's what I need. Salvation. It's out my window. 18% religious, which is one of the lowest we've ever seen here. It's spread around 3% here, 4% here. Doesn't matter. Politically in this town, last election, 39% voted Democrat, 58% Republican, about 2.5%

independent. And economy, the unemployment rate is pretty low, but the median household income isn't that great either. It's $44,412. Normally, it's about $53,500 for the rest of the country. So not terrific when it comes to that. The cost of living, though, 100 being regular average. Here, that's 92. Is that right?

So not terrible. Housing, though, is only an 86. Yeah, that's what I love about Maine. Yeah. Median home cost here, 169,200 bucks. Yes, sir. That is good stuff right there. And if we've convinced you that ocean views and breezes and everything like that are for you and crystal clear waters and whatever the fuck, we have for you the McCutt, the M Port, Maine real estate report. Your average two bedroom town in this rental in this fucking town with its fucking name is $1,168,

which is right around the national average. This here, I found a three-bedroom, one-bath, 960 square feet. Good starter. Needs a reno. It needs a full, need to renovate this bastard here. It's kind of fucked up inside. Needs some work outside. A little bit of elbow grease, too.

Just a bunch of old tires just piled up. Oh, no. Just tires, which... Yeah, that's... If you buy the place, that's expensive to get rid of. I mean, you're going to have to do something with them. If you burn them, it'll burn for about 10 years, probably, the tire fire here. But, you know, it's fine.

There's some weird cowboy decor in one of the rooms. Of course. One of the kids was clearly into it. I think that's when it was decorated in like 1959. Kid watched The Lone Ranger and then decorated his room. 1959 Toy Story theme. Yeah, it's old school like that. $69,000 for this bad boy.

Wow. I mean, you can do some work on it. Do you see the real estate there is so inexpensive. That's cheap, man. I mean, winters are a motherfucker, but $69,000? That's amazing. $69,000. Here we go.

This one here is in import proper here. Yeah. Two bedroom, three bath, 2, three bath 2474 square there you go uh it's a weird house it's there's different levels and it's laid out weird wood everything i mean bizarre there is not i didn't look that hard but i think there's probably wood countertops if you look close enough no we got wood what is that gran? Granite? Is that a slate? No, no, that's wood is what that is. I got a splinter brushing my

teeth. It's very nice. Our bathtub, wood. It's strange. We replace it once in a while, but very amazing water views all around it. It's fucking beautiful. $399,000. Un-fucking-real!

To look at the water and live in a beautiful cabin. That's 2,500 square feet. That's pretty good. Compared to the rest of the country, that's amazing. It's a tinderbox, but it's fan-fucking-tastic. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Then finally, four-bedroom, three-bats, 3,285

square feet. Big old house. built in 1832. Oh, God. Which is goddamn cool. Has like an office area in it, too. It's a big, cool, old, historic, badass house. Yes. How much?

425,000 bucks. I want it! I'm telling you. This place is great. I'm going to make, one of these days, I'm going to get my nest egg, and you'll never hear from me again. You'll just know, like Andy Dufresne, it'll be somewhere in Maine. You'll know that will be my, what was it, San, wherever the fuck he went. San was something or other.

Z-Wantaneo. I'm going to find Z-Wantaneo, Maine. That's where I want to be i'll let you work that all out on your own and you can oh that's fucking amazing i love maine it's fucking incredible so cheap winters forget it they are nine months long you're in canada enjoy it's fucking cold but the summer boy that that what, 41 days of summer is phenomenal. That 48 hours is incredible. It's not bad.

It's a good weekend. It's a good long weekend. But you get water views, and I don't want to be in that water anyway. I don't want to be in the ocean. It's cold, and there's fucking sharks in it. I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, I don't go where they live. They don't come where I live.

I don't expect them to be in my house. Stay out of my splinter box. Things to do in this town. First of all, the Macias, Machese, whatever the fuck. Wild Blueberry Festival. Yes! Holy shit. Bring it on.

They say it's come for a wildly, all capital letters, wildly fun time. come for a wildly all capital letters wildly fun time um espn was here a few years ago and live broadcasted the blueberry pie eating contest is that right wow and they wonder why their stock prices are in the shitter gee i wonder gee disney this is the type of shit here and abc or whoever the fuck ends is their umbrella i know they both own it but whatever um this is i want to go to that dressed as violet beauregard this is why espn has had to do layoffs and shit for years because they broadcast the blueberry pie eating contest from fucking some town in maine that no one can pronounce anything you can bet on espn will cover it they'll do it i'll take the fat guy yeah which one wise

ass so um yeah it's six fat guys and a 96-pound Asian man. That's part of the blueberry eating contest. It's every eating contest. So the Macias, Machise, whatever, Harvest Fair also featuring the Down East Revolutionary War and Actors. Oh, those people. Oh, man. There's also a chili contest. All right. So you're gonna have

old men older guys everyone in all these war and reenactors it's a lot of older guys yeah so you're gonna have older guys with bellies full of chili running around pretending to fucking fight the british off which is gonna be hilarious so much farting they're gonna try to time their farts with musket blasts you know farting those men are going to shit hot lava well that's later i feel like when it first hits the system it's going to cause a gaseous explosion that's just going to be worse than the muskets uh there is fudge and cornbread judging okay don't you judge my cornbread um here's something i never heard of or i've heard of like with like a machine they show used to show it on espn but pumpkin tossing that sounds like

you take it in your arms and toss it like yeah the person that doesn't that doesn't seem uh fair you'd have to have certain weights of them because pumpkins grow different sizes. It's going to explode when it hits the ground, right? That too, yeah. Yeah, so one pumpkin per. Maybe they put it, throw it on like a big cushion so you can use the same pumpkin over and over. Same over and over. Yeah. Here we go.

A rubber duckies race. Okay. I guess you can do that. Yeah. All day helicopter rides. And then the crowning jewel of the whole occasion, the seagull calling contest. That's easy.

You just drop a piece of bread and you go, I win. Done. Everyone else is like, Here, chicken, chicken. Throw a handful of cornbread. Sup, fuckers. I got them all, fuckers. And then marvel at the gulls at your feet ah take that

how's that call working out for you i threw a used diaper sup they're pecking the fuck out of that thing yeah that's gerber stage one bitch take that that's when i fell out of love with those things i used to love seeing them when i'd go to the beach and then my kids uh i changed a diaper at the beach and set the diaper on the ground attack that thing and i turned i looked down there's four gulls oh yeah oh my god rats they're sky rats they're fucking nasty they'll eat anything they'll eat anything uh margaret margaretta days oh about the boat they captured. Yeah, that's Margarita Days, which is celebrating the American Revolution down east, specifically the Battle of Margarita.

Of the Margarita. First naval battle of the American Revolution in the beginning of the U.S. Merchant Marines. History comes alive with reenactors, soldiers, musicians, trappers, timber farm framers, weavers. They just set the whole society up here. Let's see. Taste the food. Enjoy the music and dance. Meet some of the leaders in the American Revolution down east and hear their stories.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Aren't they dead guys? Yes. You're going to see guys pretending. Stupid. Those historical tours in Boston and Philly where you follow some dipshit in a wig and he tells you something. Right, a guy dressed like. In a bad half British accent.

Dressed like John Adams. Yeah, I'm Benjamin Franklin. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're worse than a mall Santa Claus. You're not even fat. I bet you don't even have venereal diseases, you fucking loser. So. How committed to your craft are you?

Not very, pal. Get out there and eat bad pussy. Oh, you got to be out by four for your community theater rehearsal. Sorry. Okay. You can leave now. Crime rate in this town, property crime, a little bit high. It's about 25% over the national average

so a little bit high maybe these are the crackheads we speak of also a lot of tourists and things like that violent crime though murder rape robbery and of course assault the Mount Rushmore of crime is only one third of the national average so it's pretty fucking low I mean it seems safe outside of

accidental drownings in the cold cold waters I don't see it so that said jimmy let's talk about a murder shall we do it well more than one murder but let's talk about some murder let's put it that way um this story holy fucking shit this is it's the type of thing that small town murder is all about. When you hear small town murder, you imagine this type of story to me. Like this is crazy and this couldn't happen. I feel like if this wasn't such a rural place that we're going to talk about, like this particular area, this neighborhood, that others would have intervened and none of this would have happened. It's very strange.

Like the police in this area they were like i don't know those fucking people out there whatever like i'm not even going to deal with it like they were almost dealt with them like they were the whites like if they don't come down the hill let's not fucking go up the hill let's just keep it amongst themselves yeah like the whites of west virginia almost it's just crazy so let's talk about some people first off let's start out with that let's talk about we're gonna we're, our story will take place mostly in 1989. Oh, yeah. Give you some ages, and that's what they are in 1989, and then I'll go back and tell you their history a little bit.

So in 1989, Michael Glenn, what's his, I'm sorry, Michael Glenn Phillips is his name. Oh. Michael Phillips. He's 38 years old, and his wife, Florence, is 41 years old. Mike and Flo. Mike and Flo. Mike and Flo in 1989. Okay. Now, a little bit of history.

Florence was married before Michael back in the day in the 70s, and she was married and had five children. Oh, boy. From a previous marriage. From a previous marriage. So her and her husband were divorced and the children end up some of them stay in Indiana. Only one is living with them in 1989. And thatorence uh also has a daughter named sandy that we'll talk about and sandy was five when florence married michael and sandy says that michael was always like a dad to her and uh you know it's always the one that's there just like a father like never even thought twice about it so it seems like everybody kind of integrated as a family well together so you know with five kids it's tough so um florence is actually from mckay's mckay's mckay's port maine that's where she grew up but she moved to indiana during her first marriage with her husband because her

husband was from there so then she went back home yeah well yeah her daughter her daughter Sandy said, it was always her dream to move back to Maine. She loved it so much. After all of us older kids were grown up in 1985, they decided to do it. I get it. Go back to Maine. They had one younger kid. So 1985-ish, they moved to Maine. Now, they said they moved to Maine. Now, they said they moved to Maine. They told everybody that the reason they came there actually was because a murder occurred outside of their home in Indiana.

So they lived in a bad neighborhood in Indiana, a neighborhood that got – I think it was like La Porte, which I think we've talked about too. I think we did, yeah. It was Peru. Yeah, well, it wasn't a bad neighborhood normally, but, man, when Circus Week came, it was just – you couldn't stop it. It was clown. Yeah. Well, it wasn't a bad neighborhood normally. But man, when Circus Week came, it was just you couldn't stop it. It was clown on clown violence. The elephants would clash in the streets. It was too much. When you're finding a dead clown in your bushes, you know, which nobody even notices anymore.

It's that common that the paper boy just threw the paper right on top of him. Didn't even notice. Right on his fucking face. Right on his stupid. When it landed, it went honk when it hit his fucking nose it's violent so they had to leave um they wanted to they said it wasn't safe anymore and they had a five-year-old son that they wanted to michael michael is named after this michael michael is theirs i was confused when you said that okay so he is a junior michael i don't know

if he's a junior in the middle name, but Michael is their kid. Got it. Either way, like theirs. So they wanted to raise- So this is the sixth kid? This is the fifth kid. They had four kids. Florence had five kids total.

Got it. So she had four with the marriage and then one with Mike. Another five. Got it. Okay. Sorry. I said that completely wrong and made it very confusing. So they wanted to raise Michael in a safe environment.

They said Maine, this is where she's from, this small idyllic town by the water. It's practically Canada. They're like, it's safe and beautiful. So they decide that they're going to do that. They move to Maine and they look around. It took Michael a while to find a decent job and get a decent house and that sort of thing. And they find a nice house. It's a nice little house.

Nothing extravagant, but nice. It's on Route 192 near the ocean. You can see the ocean. You can hear the ocean. You can smell the salt in the air. Now, across the way from them, diagonally, they have neighbors in this little area. And it's Richard and Anita Uffelman. Uffelman.

U-F-F-E-L-M-A-N. That's a tough one. Uffelman. Yeah. There we go. I'm making an executive fucking name decision. Between Maciasport, Machesport, and Uffelman. I'm going to lose my fucking mind today.

It's probably Uffelman. It's Uffelman i'm gonna lose my fucking mind today it's probably youfulman it's awful man we're naming him so richard and anita uffelman and uh they have two sons as well who in 1989 they're 10 and 12 so they're right around one of the sons is right around michael's age too so it's perfect they live in it's kind of rural out here so it's good to have boys that are around the same age. Yeah. There's a bunch of boys.

Get dirty, throw sticks and shit. Go out and make forts and shit. Awesome. Awesome stuff. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed

red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

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In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So yeah, so those are their new neighbors and they get along. Everybody hangs out. The Uffelman house is a big ass house. We'll talk about it, but it's been rebuilt and it's a big giant house with pillars, a huge picture window that looks out into the yard. And it's big. It's a big, beautiful. I love it already.

It's a big, beautiful home. And what's inside that home is a little weird. But the house itself, gorgeous from the outside. So they're all friends and everything like that. Richard is from New Jersey originally, we'll talk about. Well, he was born in Sayre, Pennsylvania, but he grew up in New Jersey originally. We'll talk about, well, he was born in Sayre, Pennsylvania, but he grew up in New Jersey.

He joins the Navy four days before his 18th birthday on September 10th, 1964. Oh, Offelman. Offelman joins the Navy September 10th, 64. Now he, he is, he joins a unit here, which if the training would have led to, if successful, he could have been a member of the Navy SEALs.

It was a – I'm trying to be a diver type guy here. Yeah, a badass. He first had to complete a one-year fleet tour and was assigned to the Navy Communications Unit at Cutler, Maine. So that's how he ended up anywhere near Maine. Now, here's one thing you'll hear about Richard all through whenever he's described forever, even the organizations he does charity work for, he's described as richard uffelman a disabled veteran okay now when you hear the words disabled veteran you think of what do you think from uh king of the hill you think of someone who was injured yeah in missing missing legs knee down shit like that either way injured while doing a combat some sort of combat activity or training or whatever any of that is you know just the same so right that was what you'd imagine but it's not actually true like you can use the word you can be disabled and a veteran

and have those things happen independently of them of each other and then you're a disabled veteran is that what so well let's talk about it on may 2nd 1965 he's riding a motorcycle here and he's playing top gun what's he gonna do this movie's gonna be awesome in 20 years it's gonna be great or is he hot shots and he's like hitting speed bumps on the runway um so a car it's said that there's different stories but either way the one story here is that a car forced the motorcycle he was riding off the road and he suffered a concussion and a broken arm in the accident and was left in a in and out of consciousness semi-conscious condition for six weeks because of this. Holy shit.

Pretty good bump to the head. He was eventually taken to the Chelsea Naval Hospital near Boston. And while undergoing an exploratory arteriogram, they discovered an aneurysm on a neck artery. Oh, my God. It was one of the two big ones there. And the aneurysm had been present since birth, they thought. It's been there the whole fucking time. So the aneurysm burst on August 16th

as Navy surgeons operated to implant a valve on the artery. It burst. And the result was a stroke. Oh, no. So, yeah, he's 18. So he has a stroke oh no so yeah he's 18 um so he has a stroke and then he's granted a full medical discharge on december 17th 1965 so yeah he he did like a drop of training and then got in a motorcycle accident that's his the extent of his deal so um from then on though disabled veteran wow so yeah that's how it goes.

So he is, uh, yeah, he's discharged with full disability as well, which is interesting because he was, that's kind of off the, you know, even like in, I don't know, I don't know how the military works, but I know like if you're a football player and you get in a motorcycle accident, they can void your contract for that. Sure. You know, I don't know if that's a whatever, either way. Especially if there's like a safety clause, but I military doesn't have that it's just no if it's not on the clock go live your life absolutely i found the article original article in the paper

and it says sailor 18 badly hurt and miss and mishap and uh it says uh let's see he was taken by ambulance to dow air for me i was taken by ambulance then he was airlifted somewhere his condition was uh listed as fairly serious uh here in this article it says he lost control of his motorcycle so then the other one 20 years later it's a car forced him off the road but on the day it happened it was lost control of the motorcycle so either way one vehicle accident yeah that's what i mean no one else was hurt or hit or anything. He was the only one. So, yeah. Anyway, wife here that he marries is Anita. Now, Anita is not I think. What is she Dutch or she's from Denmark? Anita. Yeah. So Anita is his wife. They live in Cutler, Maine. That's where they end up moving to Cutler, Maine here. Oh, she's Belgian. I'm sorry. Not Denmark. She's Belgian. So Anita is Belgian. They come to Maine. They have a six month old son in 1977 here. Son is Richard, of course. And he goes by Ricky, though. He's picking the he's picking the coolest of the richard denominations derivative yeah especially in the 70s and 80s if you're richard you could be rich you could be dick you could be richie let's go with ricky that sounds cooler and younger right yeah ricky ricky's going around having a good time ricky's always got a six-pack with him a big brush in his

back pocket back then that's ricky that. That's Ricky. That's Ricky. My Uncle Rick, his real name was Ricky. Yeah. On his birth certificate, Ricky. Ricky's got a cool Trans Am. He does. That's right. He does.

He's a lot of fun. Oh, I know he does. He's Ricky. Of course he does. But that six-pack, you nailed it. He died of alcoholism. Because Ricky isn't a name that you're given. Ricky is a name you pick.

So if you're a Ricky, that shows your personality. That you say, call me Ricky. Not Rick. Ricky. Ricky. And if you're really named Ricky, you're dying young. Yeah, you can't help it. It wasn't even your fault.

No. It was predestined from the stars. The thug life chose you, my friend. They said Ricky, and the nurse shook her head and went, all right. All right. Walk away with the baby. Poor little guy. We'll see you soon.

Rubbed his little head and went, it's not going to last long, little guy. It's not going to last long. My uncle always had a six-pack with him. But if he opened one, he'd go get another one out of the fridge and fill that six-pack back up. Oh, my God. them yeah but if he opened one he'd go get another one out of the fridge and fill that six-pack back up oh my god well ricky ricky either dies of cirrhosis at 52 or he dies on a rope swing at a creek when he's 13 one of those two places those are the only two places rickies have ever died he mashes his head against a giant rock yeah he's he's the one who's like i don't give a fuck i'll see if it's deep enough that's ricky he's the guy who goes first everyone's like go ricky oh shit then everyone runs away and they find ricky they find ricky three days later because the kids are too scared

to say anything you guys want to see a dead body yeah and then 20 years later the kids are like there's a kid named ricky that died here once of course there was of course there was there's a kid named Ricky that died here once. Of course there was. Of course there was. There's always, wherever you are, a kid named Ricky died there once. Yeah, he sure did. Especially if it's somewhere fun. So we're making fun of a baby at this point, but still. The way I see it, it's my family.

Every word you keep saying is very, very true. We're making fun of Rickys of our past is what we're making fun of. Rickies of the world. All the Rickies past we're talking about. So they move there. Richard here, the father, works for a while as an outreach worker with the veteran service in Machias and later with the u.s postal service um but we'll talk about what he does in between because it's it's the first sign that something may be awry with mr uffelman here uh i would say now he became a licensed gun dealer in 1974 for you know he sold

a bunch of guns as a business kind of a a side business, while he was in New Jersey there. He was well known in the county to the gun stores and stuff as he was a gun dealer. You could buy and sell to him and all that kind of shit. He has no criminal records or anything. You can't if you've got a gun license. Especially a sales one like that. He's a gun dealer. Everything on the up and up.

So he's very clean and all that. In 1978, he is given the job as Cutler's sole police officer, the town of Cutler. One guy. That's him. One guy. And it's him. Okay? It's old Richie Uffelman.

Who are we going to give a gun to? The guy that can sell them. He's clearly legal. He clearly can handle his guns, too. He's got all these guns around. Only thing is, this officer wasn't supposed to carry a gun. He's supposed to just be like a guy who, like, you know, I don't know what the fuck he does. Takes reports.

Yeah. Yeah, he's not supposed to carry a gun. But he does. But he's all licensed and everything, so that's fine. But what he does with it, that's the problem. Okay. Within a week of becoming the town's sole with it, that's the problem. Okay. Within a week of becoming the town's sole police officer,

he's dismissed from the job for shooting a dog in the center of town. What? He shot a dog right in the fucking town square, which freaked people out, obviously. People are dragging their children away they

shot that dog bobby and then they fired him for that because you can't do that no that's crazy he just i don't know if that was like an example to the others like listen motherfuckers pop pop should you think of that like that's crazy either way i don't know what his thought process was but he shot i get out there by its collar because he pissed on somebody's uh? I don't know if it was a vicious dog that was attacking people. Whatever the case is, he opened fire in the town square and shot a dog, which you're not supposed to do any of that if you're Cutler's sole police officer. None of that is part of your job description. So he gets fired after that. Now, the guy who had to fire him, a Mr. Cord is his name with a K.

Yeah. He said that after he had to fire Richard, Richard threatened to kill him. And that's a basic threat. I'll kill you, you bastard. People say that. But it's the details that he adds to it. It's almost like a cake is a cake, but it's not like a wedding cake. So you put all the fluff on it and shit. It's one of those things.

He put some piping on it here, hardcore, with, I'm going to kill you, quote, and destroy your house with a homemade rocket that I made. I'm going to, wow. I made a homemade rocket, and I'm going to blow your house up with it, thus killing you. I'm going to kill you. P.S. I've been building bombs. Propelled bombs. Air-pro to kill you. P.S. I've been building bombs. Propelled bombs. Air propelled. Self-propelled explosives.

Fucking, yeah. Watch your ass. I'm making military grade weaponry over here in my house. So, you know, I don't like that you fired me for something that I obviously needed to be fired for. You can't shoot a dog in the town square when you're not even supposed to have a gun and expect to keep your fucking job your job out there right now that you have whatever you're doing if you're at work right now if all of a sudden there was a dog in your office at your warehouse or wherever in your kitchen and you shot it yeah you draw down on that your job doesn't involve weaponry at all but you shot that are you gonna keep your job probably do you think

you're gonna probably pack your shit and leave i guess at this point we should just be thankful he didn't shoot one of his fucking tomahawks at the dog that's true i know how to solve this just be thankful i didn't i got the dog and the diner fuck this place thankful i didn't serve us to air that motherfucker i mean i have the capabilities i have the cam just saying don't mess with us stinger that son of a bitch oh my god uh no mr cord he said that the guy was way too i mean he brought gunplay in the first week with a dog so obviously it was a little much and this mr cord said quote the only crime we've had in cutler in years was once someone stole some branches from a balsam tree for christmas wreaths some branches off someone's tree that's all that's investigate that that's all their crimes and he said quote but i believe

uffelman's solution to life was quote get out a gun and blow it away. I really lived in fear he would come down the road and shoot me. This man has some issues, huh? Yeah. I mean, if he'll scare someone to that point where they're like, you know, that's how you're thought of, that's interesting. So in 1979, I don't know if it was the embarrassment of the dog incident, but they moved to M-port here. Okay. In 1970. Machias.

Machias. Machias. Machias. Moport. Machias Moport. m port here okay in 1970 there we go machias machias machismo port machismo port um they move here in 1979 and the he he becomes a member he's giving out awards he gave an award uh he's the representative for the american legion's disabled veterans outreach program he's giving giving out awards to people and all that and yeah there's people coming in with like combat wounds and he's giving them awards and he's like i'm a disabled veteran too and he's nodding his head you know i drove my motorcycle off the road and then had a medical problem suzuki 750 what about 750. What about you? That's interesting. So he then moves into the house on Route 192, I believe it is, here. So moves in there in January of 1979. Beautiful, right? Ready to go.

Pretty much with the new year of 79. Sick. February 14th, 1979, the house is completely destroyed in a fire. Oh, my God. Weird. So weird. It's an old house, stood for however long. He buys it five weeks within, fucking burnt to the ground.

One of his scuds go off in the fucking basement? I think that's what happened. I think that's what happened. While he's sleeping, a scud just goes off. He was building the original Patriot missile defense system, and he just had an accident down there. It didn't quite work out. So, yeah, it destroyed him, destroyed all this shit. Three fire departments had to come here.

It was below zero outside when this happened. Oh, dear God, it gets so cold. Harder to get water on that when it freezes immediately. Fuck. You need a lot of on that when it freezes immediately. Fuck. You need a lot of water pressure to keep that water flowing. At that point, you're shooting ice cubes at it. Yeah. Anything sprayed literally will freeze in the air before it hits the ground.

So that's what you're going to make snow. That's what you're going to make. Make it snow on this motherfucker now. Go, go, Johnson. Get the Dalmatian. He knows how to do it so this looks like the last 30 seconds of every porno no shit that's exactly what it is it's coming it's coming kaki in the house oh man it wasn't five weeks i'm sorry it was uh it was two weeks ago wow yeah uh he purchased

the house from a guy named leon wyman two weeks earlier yeah Wow. Yeah. He purchased the house from a guy named Leon Wyman two weeks earlier and reportedly had been at the house earlier that day. I bet Wyman cried his eyes out. No shit. He wasn't there. Alf Offleman had been at the house earlier. Yeah, but he heard about it. He found out. Two weeks after he moved out.

The cause of the fire was being investigated. They could never figure out what the cause of the fire was either that was the other thing mysterious fire the wyman's had vacated the house about two months ago and moved to new hampshire uh it was 1 48 a.m is when it happened here so the navy's firefighting unit in cutler had to come here and all sorts of other firemen so they rebuild immediately they collect the insurance and rebuild the house that they want there which is pretty funny oh wow yeah it's interesting didn't like where that living room was anyway no you know what rather than remodel what's it cost to remodel well burn it to the fucking ground is the way i'm looking at it so uh they rebuild and that's they rebuild the

house with the pillars and the bay window and all this shit and he names it he gives it a name jimmy what five posts a state not bad five posts five posts a state this is indian trading post it does that's exactly what it sounds like it's in like in on the way to vegas and northern western arizona sounds like it's in fucking alamogordo fucking new mexico it's right outside wiki up is where it is you pass snoopy on the rocket and then you hit that it's right after i think there is like a three arrows or some shit out there probably many towns with many different arrows i'm sure in the west there so they rebuild uh he I'm sure in the West there.

So they rebuild. He describes it as five posts a state. What it turns into, it's a family house, obviously. They have another son in 1979 or 1980. So they end up with two young boys here. And the, wow, this is fucking crazy. He makes in this house an addition. But when you build your house, you can build it any way you want. Hell yeah. Wow. This is fucking crazy. He makes in this house an addition. But when you build your house, you can build it any way you want.

Hell yeah. He chooses to put secret rooms with like weird like a castle. Take it easy, H.H. Holmes. Yeah, dude. Secret secret rooms, hidden passageways, hidden. Also tunnels that lead outside. He had tunnels dug under the shit so they could crawl from secret rooms out of their house to like far away in the yard. And they pop up at a fucking target range that has man shaped targets in it. Oh, this is frightening. This is fucking insane.

Also, we'll get into these daily military drills with the boys as well. And not like push ups and like, you know, I'm going to get these boys in shape and get some military order in this house, you know, whatever, and have them doing laundry. No, no, no, no, no. Like create a scenario. There's a helicopter on the roof and there's men on the grounds. Try to get out. There's a very specific scenario that they create that is uh this what they're training really so uh daily military drills um all sorts of kind of weird pseudo military themes to the whole thing like he's acting like he's got

his own militia in his house it's just him and his boys and his wife sort of he reminds me of on reno 911 zach alphanakis character when he's outside the trailer and he's got like five kids and he's always like, I don't know what you're talking about. That's who this guy reminds me of. He really does. So rumors around town, because, you know, shooting a dog and shit like that, rumors spread in small towns, even from town to town. Rumors circulated that he had a steel plate implanted in his skull after his motorcycle accident. And his mental problems are caused by the plate. And also that they said he has severe after effects of the bends, which is a decompression thing.

A decompression sickness is the other name. It's if you go down way deep in the ocean, you have to decompress for a certain amount of time. Sure, you got to come up slow. And if you don't, you get the bends. It's a fucked up thing. The bends. I don'tress for a certain amount of time. Sure. You got to come up slow. Right. And if you don't, you get the bends. It's a fucked up thing. The bends. I don't think I've ever heard of that.

Yeah. He had, it turns out though, he has no steel plate in his head at all. The aneurysm was the problem, but everyone around town is like, he got a steel plate in his head and he's still fucked up from the bends. And then they just shake their head and walk away. That's literally what everyone does with him.

Steel plate and a bench. Somebody explained a weird situation they had with them, and now everybody just says that. That's what it is. And he only experienced two minor occurrences of the bends. One resulted in a rash, and the other in pains in a knee and elbow joints. And this was in, like, 1968.

So this has nothing to do with anything and he has no steel plate but that's the rumors like years ago he had some arthritis he's still 30 years later 25 years later he's still feeling the decompression after effects and the steel plate is messing with his skull so it's weird so may 1st 79 is when jerry is born gerard is his name but jerry is what he goes by so ricky and jerry are the kids fantastic night so by 1989 uh we'll talk about uh it's ricky and jerry and the two sons they're 12 and 10 you got richard and anita they're the offelmans they're in one place in their in their fort house and then across street, you have the newly moved in Phillips family from a couple of years ago,

Michael and Florence and their son, Michael. So it was family figuring it out. 10 years old as well. So now Richard is described in the 80s by everybody as an authoritarian type with his family. And they said, though, but he was also, a lot of people said he was just a believer in good order and discipline he went in the service and he liked the order and the discipline

part and they were like you know that's kind of old-fashioned it's good to see a lot of people he was there for three weeks he's there yeah well you know he literally was there for like two months and fucking yeah so it's weird but people like the they like it they like the the way you know all those kids they'll stay stand up straight look at those little kids it's weird but people like the they like it they like the the way you know those kids they stand up straight look at those little kids it's kind of one of those but the weird parts are he put several several security systems on his house he had like multiple security systems he had sirens uh all over like built into his house he had these weird like air raid sirens yeah loud as fuck he had loud speakers that he could talk through that were insanely loud as well um he

had aircraft landing lights mounted on the corners of his house do you know how bright aircraft landing lights are can you millions of candle power you gotta be able to see that from the sky you can see them from fucking 30,000 feet away. That's how bright they are in a pitch black night. That's how bright they are. He puts them on his house. Wow. Imagine what those are like when they're on pointed at your neighbor's house.

You know what I mean? Like green on this corner, red on this corner. That's got to be so bright. And they're flashing. It's so bright. No, no. I think it's not the flashy green it's the bright lights of the fucking when it's landing the bright steady light the plane has on the white one that's what he's yeah it's a spotlight why the fuck would he

have a flashing yellow red light that's what the airport has there now it's weird. That's what I was seeing. No, the bright, bright light that when a plane's landing at night, you see in the front, the big, giant. The headlight. Yeah, the blinding fucking light. That's crazy. That's insanity. And what do you power that with?

That doesn't screw into a regular socket, does it? You got to get a special generator, right? You got to have a special setup. It's got to run got to have a generator, right? You've got to have a special set up for that. That's got to run off of the same thing that your stove runs off of, like the 220. That's not just like two-prong, three-prong. No. There's a special plug for that, I think. It's got the weird plug. Yeah, you've got to run it off an airplane battery, whatever the fuck that is.

There was tripwire hidden in the lawn. You've got to be shitting me. Tripwire. It's a peaceful town by the ocean. This isn't where he lives. Tripwire for his alarm system to alert him. It's teeming with wildlife, man. Yeah, how many deer?

How many raccoons set that shit off? Yeah, seagulls even. And a secret storage room, secret passage rooms. He kept German shepherds under the front porch. Oh, that's horrifying. That's crazy. That's like a crazy, looks like Mr. Burns would keep fucking dogs under, release the hounds, and they'd fucking. They just go.

They go. So this is the type of living that's going on here. Very much Zach Galifianakis and Reno 911. Paranoia doesn't even begin to put a fucking face on this. So he had his Marine Corps manual as well that he kept with him, a Marine Corps manual that he tutored his sons out of. Like, come on, kids, gather around. We're going to read from the Marine Corps manual.

Stop it, sir. You were in the in the navy yeah that's the other thing you're in you're in the navy you're a navy guy but he taught ricky and jerry how to use m1 carbines to lay down suppressive fire wow before they were even 10 now they're 10 and 12 we're talking when they're seven it's like well time to learn suppressive fire i need to show you how to cover dad yeah uh in case of an attack he said sick on the house i mean as a 10 year old that sounds fucking rad oh god as a kid you would have thought it was the most fun thing in the world i get to shoot carbine i'm out here laying down suppressive fire on spring break if you you're a kid, you don't know. Are people attacking? Who knows?

Maybe they are. You know, what the fuck do you know? At this point in the 80s, he is the assistant postmaster at the Denny'sville post office. Yeah. And, you know, Richard, he has a legal permit for his guns. He still has his gun dealing license and all that. What they were training for were called this is the this is real marty raids marty yeah marty now you would think what does marty stand for is that like

no no it's a guy named marty it's literally a fucking guy named marty that's who they're training for man they're training for they're training for fucking michael j fox marty's coming everybody okay he's coming back from 2029 oh my god if he's got an old man with him with a lab coat on kill him first he's the most dangerous then he can't get back then he's stuck here and we can do with him what we want right so uh i know i'll give him parkinson's that'll teach him and then they sent him back in time and forth and somehow that's how he poor michael j fox has it i like michael j fox too i feel bad for him he's one of those he's one of those guys seems like a nice guy he's funny he's

not the greatest actor in the world and he plays roles that he knows he's not the greatest actor in the world he's not like you know he tried to take himself so serious he tried it for a minute in the 80s what the fuck was that drug movie he tried to make in the 80s uh not less than zero the other one i didn't see it fuck there's another one that was a book in the 80s about doing coke in fucking new york one of those type of books bright lights big city that's it i missed it exactly because no one wants to see that from michael j fox then he went ah noted and he went right back to we'll do back to the future three never mind we'll do it in the old west here we go yup like he figured it out oh you just want me to be likable okay yeah you want me to wear a puffy jacket in 1820 i'm in perfect walk around looking confused

at technology great i can do it greg gerald will you tell a joke about uh stem cells where he's like stem cells could cure michael j fox and he's like but one side uh is upset that it comes from a baby and i don't know man michael j fox is way cooler than any fucking baby. Any baby I've ever met. So, the Marty raids. Okay. He kept a house. He had an arsenal of 38 firearms. Jesus, fuck, man.

Loaded, too. These are loaded. Loaded weapons in every single, the bathrooms have loaded guns in them. I can understand. You can reach in the back of your toilet and pull a gun out. I get it. Yeah, a little bit silly with two small children running around. When your kids are there, you don't have guns on the living room table.

They're trained with fucking carbines, James. They'll be fine. Five alarm systems. Five. That's a bit much. Five. And trip wire and shit. That's too far.

Hidden stairways, secret secret rooms stashes of food and weapons also kept uh around the house in secret rooms and in certain spots around the woods and camouflage spots he kept wood he kept food caches and weapons and like you know ammo caches and shit like that uh which is fucking nuts he also said that that he did these arm drills, Richard did, included his wife and their two young sons, and they were, quote, a regular part of their daily routine. Every day they got a little Marty party? Marty raid.

Marty party. Yeah, there you go. Marty raid. Oh, you didn't ever watch Frasier. Never mind. That's right. It's a joke from Frasier. Is it?

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I thought you were referencing. Do you want to explain it Frasier. Never mind. That's right. It's a joke from Frasier. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I thought you were referencing. Do you want to explain it? I want to hear it. It's just his dad is fucking, his dad's older and not classy is supposed to be what it is. And they're all upper crust. And they want to throw a party.

And he's like, why don't you throw a party? He used to throw parties all the time back in the day. What do you do? You have the people come over, some guys, some ladies, you know, and everybody pitches in. They called them Marty parties. Everybody loved them. How do you have it? Hey, Marty, when are you know and everybody pitches in they called them marty parties everybody loved them how do you have an hey marty when you have another party hey marty when's the next marty party and they were like

thank you no like basically it was the whole fucking joke like that's all right thank you marty party i don't know why that's what i thought you were referencing my grandma's name is martha we call her marty and uh i call her party marty it takes two drunk two drinks to get her hammered also she does a lot of coke so it's that's why you call her she's quite the party yeah that's obvious she was tommy lee's first wife i believe so that's how hard she was yeah that's what i'm saying like and she was like, take that, bitch. And then she did a line off his huge cock and walked away. Drug her finger over it because some of the coke got caught in the veins.

This is why you should never be offended. That's just as Jimmy's grandmother. This is how comics are with each other. Nothing's off limits. We could talk about exhuming relatives and doing coke off them, and that would be fine, too. It's just, if it's funny, it's okay for comics. I just said my grandma got coke residue off Tommy Lee's cock. This is why.

This is why comics generally, when you're like, how can you not understand that that's offensive? Because, listen to us. That's why. To us, just funny is whatever. Offensive doesn't exist. Context of society. Context of society. That's right.

And we have to think about it for a minute. But otherwise, so they're doing Marty raids. And these were intended to fend off an expected attack from Anita's ex ex-husband the aforementioned marty the marty of great fame in this house even though the family had not seen nor heard from it from him since they left new jersey fucking five years ago well i get it they have no idea what he's up to he may be training hardcore too we gotta set up a solid defense it's actually since like 1975 they haven't heard from him they're still doing this in the late 80s 15 years of that guy who knows what he could have

the most elaborate plans we don't even like they could be seriously fucking elaborate plans man if we slip one day we might be behind his assault yeah who knows that's we could be on the losing side of this shit um people called it one person called it an unreasonable fear of marty which is a great name for this show unreasonable fear of marty it's just ridiculous guy named marty is not a threat that's a nice fella it's yeah most martys i've known have been okay so except for gen. He's the only one that's... I don't know him. He's a mess. So, they said that defense became a ritual in the Uffelman house, and

also, he'll say that he did all this undercover work that he didn't do. We'll get into that as well. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to

officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

So friends here, they become friends with the Phillips across the street, even though Richard is clearly a little different, obviously. They were good friends. The boys all played together, though, because we have two boys the same age, and that's how it works. So at some point, the Phillips family from out of state came to visit them at their new place in Maine. Seems nice, and they stayed with them for a week. So the Phillips had some family over. phillips family from out of state came to visit them at their new place in maine yeah seems nice

and they stayed with them for a week so the phillips had some family over uh they had a family reunion out on the front lawn you can hear and see the ocean and smell it how great beautiful they barbecued drank some beers this is good see this is better than camping then you can go inside and take a shit if you need to. This is, yeah. This is good. You get fucked up outdoors and then go inside. Yeah, like my house. You go into the woods and you set off fireworks.

You go back there. It's like we're in the woods. Get fucked up and then go home. My stomach's gurgling. I'll be back in a little bit. And then you can walk home and come back. That's good. There's some cabacol on the counter.

I'll be back. By the way, bring the prosciutto that's in there. Are there any of those sesame sticks i'd love those bring some capicola and some fucking sesame sticks with you would you all right jimmy this is gonna be good these things are so good this is roughing it here yeah we got it all right this is italian camping in the woods near the house with salted cured meats there's no couch out here we're roughing it yeah this is rough i'm sitting on a fucking log that's not rough what do you want from me my asshole thinks it's rough right now i can see it on my ass it's rough believe me there's a fire uncontained

outside this is rough oh anything could happen you know what i'm saying this is we're living the life right now hey we're crazy woods people right We're playing fast and loose right now. That's right. I'm a fuck. I'm like a trapper over here. That's what I feel like. I'm going to sell some pelts. So long as beef jerky back. Oh. I'm an old trapper. That's Italian beef jerky.

Capicolo and prosciutto. Sure is, yeah. You have to be close enough to the house to where it still stays cold from the fridge, though. Right. You know what I'm saying? And doesn't sweat too bad. And doesn't sweat too bad.

Yeah, you don't want that. Then it gets weird gets weird yeah can't have that so uh they're all good friends uh they're all drinking and hanging out not the not the uffelmans but the phillips family out there they barbecue drink some beers everybody's having a good time um back to that in a moment here but uh michael phillips the young the son of the phillips here who hangs out with the phil with the uffelman boys even when he's like six seven years old when he shows up in maine he was kind of like why why are there so many guns around the house when you go over to the uffelman's like you know a gun whatever but like this is like there's guns everywhere like normally in my house we don't have guns in the bathroom. That's all I'm saying.

I tried to wipe my ass. There was a gun on it. Yeah. Yeah, that's your toilet paper roll. It's a gun with a toilet paper roll around it. You just pull it off, and you can just pull it out and shoot somebody if they come in, which is not a bad idea if you're a paranoid person who likes defense. Listen, that's the most vulnerable you'll ever be.

I saw Jimmy's wheels turning when I said that. He's like, I could do that. I am stuck right here. If anybody comes in, I am really fucked. I'm not going to stand up. You're like a long barrel.357. That's the perfect width for toilet paper. All you stick it on the end, pow, right off the fucking rack.

Otherwise, what am I going to do? Stand up and slam my ass cheeks together with this? No, that's a mess. Throw your shit at them. That's what you do. Pick it up and throw my ass cheeks together with this no that's a mess throw your shit at them that's what you do pick it up and throw it out oh they're gonna run they're gonna run if you burst in on a man and he stands up screams grabs his own shit lock out of the bowl and throws it at you i'm out of that house i don't care what my intentions were i don't care if i'm a serial killer yeah you you you win the crazy contest buddy come out of here then you go come back motherfucker i got more i'm not done i'm not

done i had corn he's gonna be very scared so he said that you know he's been in other people's houses and his relatives houses and his houses none of the other houses have secret passageways in the walls or tunnels from the basement uh to the outside or shooting ranges with human targets uh human shaped and sized targets he said you know that's just not a thing um it was odd he didn't understand it um he uh he the kids too they always had to play at other people's houses generally because none of the other parents in town would let their kids come uh near over there because they were like this is yeah trip over a 30-06 yeah it got to the point where even michael phillips across the street no one wanted to come to his house because of the uffelmans lived across the street it's too close it's too

close that's what it was his birthday in july of 89 when he turned 10 they had to go to indiana to celebrate there because they said that basically that you know no one would come to the house for a birthday party anyway so damn it we'll just go visit relatives and uh there's some problems that result and they stem from that party that the that the phillips has had the family reunion where they barbecued in the front yard with their cousins and grandmas and shit apparently richard uffelman found a broken bottle in his on his lawn the next day a broken bottle a broken beer bottle and come from there in his lawn and automatically assumed the phillips wanted somebody from the party threw the bottle

and it landed on his lawn and broke because where else would it come from he said so he called the police to complain about this he the police the police about a broken bottle on his yard i found a bottle in my yard, okay? I want you to arrest the people across the street. Why? It's a fucking bottle. Are you going to fingerprint that? Yeah.

The wind could have taken it. This is crazy. What are you talking about? A kid driving down the street could have thrown it out. You know how many times I've done that as a child? Who in the shit calls the cops because they found a bottle on their lawn that's really ticky tack so the cops said that the fine this you know i understand that you're upset but there's no proof that the and the cops actually

came out and they talked to the phillips and they went we didn't throw a bottle in his yard i don't know what you're talking about and the cops went to richard and said they just said they didn't do it it's a bottle we're not going to bring in the crime lab for this like we're not going to start dusting for prints on the broken pieces of the bottle it's a bottle clean it up and fucking move on bro like who cares so um now richard started to get annoyed here okay first of all he was annoyed with the with the Phillips's house in general because it gave his view of the ocean a partial blocking. Kind of blocked out. It was in his way of the ocean.

So he's like, first of all, fuck that house. And now fuck these bottle throwing assholes inside of him as well. So he's very upset. And now this bottle came out. Now he's upset completely. Now I found a bottle. Forget it. So Michael Phillips at this moment is employed by a local surveying company.

He's doing that. His boss said that he was a quiet, hardworking guy who never hurt anybody in his life. That's Michael Phillips across the street. So, yeah, anybody who knew him will say that, somebody said here. Now, Florence, she worked for the surveyors as well but had to quit because of a heart problem at 41 so yeah that's that's tough and they said they had to go for walks every night because the doctor told her that she needed to walk needed to get go for at least two walks a day around uh it helps her heart yeah so after dinner every night michael and florence

walk around the neighborhood. They leave their house and they go for a walk and come back every single night. It's their routine. So for her health. So anyway, 1988, 1989 comes around here. Now, by the way, none of these people have any criminal interactions other than I found in the paper. Anita got a ticket for failure to display current or valid certificate of inspection. Anita Offleman lacks an inspection certificate.

I found that in a newspaper. So that was it. Yeah, she's a month late on her inspection. So she got a $55 ticket. In the paper. In the paper. Damn it. But otherwise, nobody has any records or anything.

the paper but otherwise nobody has any records or anything um now anita also said that she had uh she had like you know didn't mind michael their kid coming over all the time and hanging out and liked the kid anita said that uh you know richard used to plow their driveway in the winter and even cut their grass with the big riding mower that he had and all that type of shit. But after the bottle incident, that was it. There was also an incident with a slingshot that I don't know what happened there. Dennis the Menace was involved, I guess. That's when it all went awry. After this, the Uffelmans begin finding soda bottles in their lawn, too. Some of them are broken, even.

Some of the bottles, they said, were thrown at their cars. So you could tell they were thrown near their cars. So they started to, the Uffelmans started to think that the Phillipses are probably planning on killing us, I think. That's what they start to think. Yeah, they're like. Broken bottles. Yeah, that's what you do. It's first it's bottles. And then next thing you know, it's homemade rockets.

That's, you know, we know that because that's our plan. Yeah. So Richard continues to call the police on a regular basis to complain that the neighbors are throwing bottles on his property. He would bag them up in big gallon Ziploc bags and give them to the police as evidence. He'd write like a date on them. Isn't there a point to like walk over and be like, have you been throwing bottles in my house?

That's all it needed to be from the first, hey, somebody's throwing bottles from over there. I don't know if it's a kid or what, but you know, just try to, oh, I'm sorry, Jesus. Who the fuck threw a bottle in the neighbor's yard? That's not cool. That's how that ends. I'm kind of worried about my kids cutting their foot you know that's unsightly it's causing me a lot of problem yeah and you could even say i know it's probably

one of the kids from the party probably just you know i'm sure it's not a grown-ass adult doing this i'm sure it's not on purpose but you know just keep an eye out because i don't want i want to be able to run around and not cut my feet up if it's you know we're playing slip and slide out here you know i'm saying so that's all fair fair that's how it's resolved he says no no i'm gonna Keep an eye out because I want to be able to run around and not cut my feet up if we're playing slip and slide out here. You know what I'm saying? So that's all. Fair. Fair.

That's how it's resolved. He says, no, no, no. I'm going to call the cops every day and bag shit up better than the OJ murder investigation. I'm going to really work on the – there's a chain of evidence I got going on. Take pictures of me with rubber gloves, picking these up so they know the fingerprints on it are not mine. Picking it up like on a pen, lawn order style. Like hold it out, drop it in the bag. Dated, tagged, done.

Dated, tagged, fucking tape over it, initialed. So continues to do that. The Phillips's continue to deny the allegations. They're like, I don't know what you're talking about. The police start to tell the Phillips'sips's look they really think that you're throwing bottles so if you aren't if you are don't because it's just it's a lot please stop then anita uffelman calls the phillips family and tells them out of nowhere that the they don't want the sons playing together anymore kids aren't allowed to see each other anymore. That's it. We're now the fucking Hatfields and McCoys and no one shall get along.

So this is tough. When idiot adults cause 10 year olds to not be able to play on a fort together like that's so stupid. It's just ridiculous. So Florence was really confused. Like what has she taught? Why? What the fuck is going on with these people? I don't understand it. So it then began richard escalated the whole thing at one point here

and began when they when the phillipses would go out on their lawn he would use a megaphone and yell insults at them until they went back inside what just yell at them call them names go back in your house go back in your house well just scream shit at them over a megaphone until they went inside heckled them like yeah you just heckled them until they went in that's crazy that's amazing too and also they're lucky that me and you weren't their neighbors because we would have gotten other megaphones and just said worse shit back to them. Yeah. Bigger ones. He thinks he can talk shit? Wait till you hear this.

Oh, boy. Yeah. So he's yelling at them over a megaphone. The Phillipses became fearful. They thought they were being bullied. He would shine those lights on their house, the fucking airplane landing craft, and yell shit out of the megaphone and you know call the cops on everything they did it was it was crazy um so uh they which they they uh train the lights directly on the phillips house god um then uh he would shoot guns in the front of the house with his sons richard wood now he started doing it not just in the target range in the back out front he's shooting

guns all the time which the phillips has said they began to feel threatened like, oh, oh, accidentally put one through their window. One of those deals, they started to feel scared about it as anybody would. The man is firing weapons in his front yard. That's crazy. That's a little different. Yeah. So they called police to ask, can you ask them to stop shooting the guns in the front yard? Because he said he feels like he's trying to flex their muscles on us here.

The cop said there's nothing illegal about shooting guns for target practice in Maine on your own property. He's not within like a little township that has regulations. It's a rural town. There's no regulation. You can shoot guns wherever the fuck you want. His property was all in on Maine until I just heard that. It's what? That's pretty wild. So the police said they can't do anything. So Michael and Florence are starting to feel helpless here,

the Phillipses. They start to feel like, well, fuck, man, there's a lot. It's escalating intimidation. How do we prove it? So what they did is they got a video camera and set it up in their front window and they started taping the weird shit that richard would do so at least they had it documented so you know it's something i guess so um michael also on june 27th 1988 michael

phillips is issued a concealed weapons permit as well he's dead he doesn't like guns too he said but he started like well fuck this guy's you know got firepower over here i gotta defend myself so um yeah he uh uh and also uh one of their sons patrick one of florence's sons came in patrick and lived with the phillipses for about eight months uh until in 1989 and he said quote i couldn't believe what was going on here's this beautiful place and this guy terrorizing everybody with no one able to stop him uffelman just seemed to know how far he could go without getting into trouble with the law i wanted to move there for good but i just couldn't handle it yeah so he moved back to indiana from the ocean that's how bad this guy is he made the ocean unbearable yeah he made indiana preferable to the ocean

that's how bad this guy is think about that lobster taste awful yeah i was like i don't like those briny oysters fuck you you. He made a lobster roll. Disgusting. Oh, my God. Made a lobster roll taste like gun smoke. Gun smoke and gerbil cage shavings. So Mike Phillips, the kid here, Michael, he says that Richard was, quote, always yelling at us with a bullhorn and shining spotlights on us. My mom and dad bought me a new bike, but they wouldn't let me ride down the road because they were afraid he'd do something to me. Yeah, and catch a stray.

To their fucking 10-year-old child. That's crazy. Now, that's the Phillips point of view. Yeah. Or let's go to the flip side now. Okay. Let's go to the other side. A woman named Joan Ackley.

She used to babysit for the Uffelman children. She said that she often overheard on her car radio scanner. She's the type of person who drives around with a police radio scanner because she's like my grandmother. In the car. Nosy as fuck. In the car, though. She said she heard Mr. Uffelman's calls to the state police to complain that the phillipses were harassing him uh she said they threw bottles at his house took letters out of his mailbox and

once shot at his swimming pool while his family was in it we'll get into that she also said after that incident the state police arrested a man named colby kilton who is the husband of florence's niece but he was never charged with the husband of Florence's niece. But he was never charged with the crime of shooting at their swimming pool. And we'll get into why here. So 1989 comes around, obviously escalating through the 80s. Also, taking shit out of somebody's mailbox, you can have them arrested on a federal crime. That's great.

Yeah, you can't do that. Yeah. And they don't have proof of it. They're just saying it. You can't just say that they were doing that if they weren't. You can't do that. Yeah. And they don't have proof of it. They're just saying it. Right. You can't just say that they were doing that if they weren't. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That's the slander. Well, this lady used to babysit, so she's got a certain, she's got a bias, whatever. But she also heard the guy's calls on a police scanner, which doesn't mean that's what's actually happening. Correct. Because Richard seems a little paranoid. a police scanner which doesn't mean that's what's actually happening because richard seems a little paranoid and the fact that threw bottles took letters out of his mailbox shot at a swimming pool while his family was in it those were all stories that richard recounted to her so yeah she's just reflecting his story back that's what that kind of is so uh 1989 the other ones they

kind of have corroborated non-participatory evidence, the Phillipses do. So 1989, the Phillipses would call the police on Uffelman. Uffelman would call the police on the Phillipses, back and forth. At some point, Richard wanted a protection order. He wants a protection order. The police thought he was getting a little paranoid, Richard, and that he had some fear that basically they were like, we can't fix his problem here. Like nothing we do is going to fix what he's doing. He's paranoid. So the state police, the county sheriff's department and the district attorney investigated

all these charges in the six months between this is fucking crazy in the six months between whatever six months back so it'd be like february to august of 1989 mr richard uffelman filed 47 complaints with the state police about the phillipses in six months that's two a week 47 that sounds like a silly random number you throw out what is it like make 47 complaints against me He made 47 complaints in six months. That's fucking crazy. Now, the cops said they got the cops don't know. They think he's kind of nuts, but also what do they know?

So they said they hear it from both sides and they're just sick of the whole fucking thing. They don't want to hear from either of them anymore. And one of you to fucking move. What the hell? Yeah. One police, Sergeant Wesley Hussey of the state police. He said both parties had multiple witnesses, family members, friends telling opposite stories. You couldn't honestly say one side was more credible than the other.

You don't know them. You just show up and there's 10 people saying one thing and 10 saying the other. Who do you believe? What the fuck do you know? It's all the same. and tensei and the other who do you believe what the fuck do you know it's all the same so june 20th 1989 this is when colby kilton is accused of firing shots at the uffelman house yeah um no charges ever filed so colby kilton here that once the police investigated no charges were filed because he said he was later on he'll testify in court that he was firing blanks on the beach

behind the phillips's house which the phillips's house is between the Uffelman house and the beach. The Phillips live across there. The Uffelman's live across the street from the beach. So, yeah, they were. That's the story. Whereas the Uffelman said he was firing real bullets into their swimming pool at them in the swimming pool. Those are very different stories. Entirely different.

Entirely different stories. So at that point, Richard Uffelman complains to state representative George A. Townsend of Eastport that Michael Phillips fired a gun at his house. So Townsend said that he received the first of what would be several calls from Uffelman at 11 p.m. I wish I could run for this office he called a state rep at 11 p.m to complain about his neighbor imagine that shit he said quote he told me the trouble had been going on for some time i told speaker of the house john martin who then called the state police what the fuck is going on in maine mr speaker i mean is it just all pepperidge farm and fucking what is going on up there like what are you doing unbelievable get your shit together we've had some

weird maine investigations they're just very casual about police work there it seems like back in the day anyway i don't know about now you never have the speaker of the fucking state house involved in this this is an odd chain of command down the thing. Normally, if you have a criminal complaint, you call the police. This guy instead calls a state rep who then contacts the speaker of the state fucking house who then calls the police for you. What the hell kind of a bullshit? No, that should start with, we're busy with doing other shit.

No, I don't get paid to fucking... I'm trying to fucking legislation that keeps people from shooting guns in their front yard. He said by the time anyone got out there to investigate, they couldn't find anything. That's because he went through two politicians in the middle of the night rather than just calling the cops. So Townsend advised Uffelman to seek legal counsel. He said, why don't you try like some sort of injunction on whatever the fuck. So Townsend said, I know he contacted the attorney general's office, the district attorney's office, and the governor's office. Wow.

No. All people who are too busy for your neighbor bullshit. Try talking. Try talking to the people. How about that? Let's all try that first. Take a walk across the street. Bring a pie with that first take a walk across the street bring a pie with you take a walk across the street with a pie cut a couple pieces sit down have a piece of pie with somebody you can't be angry when there's a pie on the table or

or have little ricky grab his six-pack and come along yeah where's little ricky he's like oh hold down buddy let me grab this hold on wait i forgot Wait a minute. I got to go in and get them because Ricky always wears sunglasses. Always. Even on cloudy days. As he gets older, they turn into blue blockers. They're still sunglasses. Still UV rays, buddy. Clouds or not.

So he said he contacted the governor's office, but Townsend said, quote, but the only ones who seemed to take an interest in even hearing about it was the sheriff's department. Yes. You know, why would anyone else care about this? People who it falls under their jurisdiction. He said, I contacted the attorney general and the governor. They weren't real interested. You know, I was interested in this criminal complaint.

The state, the sheriff's office. Yeah. Usually. That's usually how it works the people who it's in their job description what weird what a weird thing this this guy if he still goes for office if maybe the guy was young and he's like 75 don't vote for this guy anymore he's really perhaps that's why he had to put that dog down in town square he he called the he called the copyright office instead of the dog catcher yeah he's just wrong thing well i'll shoot him myself fuck it so um yeah the state's

police spokesman said that martin and the attorney general had received at least one possibly several letters i'm gonna say it's probably several myself uh from richard uffelman in 1989 and said that he didn't know the nature of the letters but uh yeah that's how it worked here uh one of these cops here lieutenant thomas mishoud he said that the harassment complaints and all this shit was escalating to an explosive point he said he said yes we know there's a serious problem there was a serious problem there. We've been there on many, many occasions. So, yeah, that's what's going on here.

That's the scene that's set June 20th with that shooting. I guess they charged that Kilton guy with operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol because they went to go pull him over and he took off and was drunk. So that's what he ended up being convicted of, but nothing with the gun, actually. It was a.22 caliber handgun. Richard accused him of shooting it at his wife and two children, and they said he has a dent in a pool chair believed to be caused by the impact from a bullet. A dent? A dent.

I guess, yeah. A 22. It's a 22 from fucking who knows how far away. From across the street, from more than five feet. It's still going to put a hole in it. He said that a report they were doing, it was forwarded to a lab for analysis and all that, and I guess the analysis came back negative, I don't know, because he was never arrested for it. So, yeah yeah they stopped him

a short distance from the uffelman home the kilton guy which placed him in the area and blah blah blah so then uh he can't i can't believe 11 30 at night he's contacting people the government that is wild um yeah uh he says that they keep threatening him uffelman and state police and legislature state police told the legislator when they called because the, you know, the Speaker of the House called the state police said Uffelman. Yes, he's a, quote, nuisance caller. We know him. He's one of those guys. So quickly on the gun thing, too.

Is he allowed to have all these guns? He is allowed to have all these guns legally here. He has gun permits that he carries a permit to carry a concealed weapon he has a federal firearms license allowing him to deal in weapons and also giving him access to certain weapons that states whatever there's normal people can't have right overlap there um the federal license is required for people who sell or deal in 10 or more guns a year. So whatever there. He says he's got all sorts of various licensing. He said that he doesn't think that he had licensing for automatic weaponry.

That's all he said. He doesn't think he had. So, yeah, he said that the cop talking here, the Meshoud guy said any citizen can any citizen can obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon provided the person does not have a history of mental illness or a criminal record. So, yeah, I guess shooting a dog in the middle of town is kind of in between those two. If you're the cop, you're not getting arrested for it, and it's crazy, but not really meant, you know what I mean? It's like it falls between those two things. So they said

that uh the calls though it was a regular thing the one guy said we were there every two or three weeks so uh that's a lot they also said that despite because the the the phillipses would call and say they kind of wave guns around and shit like and we it's we feel very threatened by it the michelle guy said quote a person can display a firearm wave it around and even taunt another person with it but unless another person uh but unless he actually points the gun at another person he hasn't broken the law what a law that's not i don't think that's the law anymore because now i think brandishing just means taking it out that doesn't even mean pointing it.

If you point it at someone, it's assault. So it's a different thing. Yeah, because what does a gun do? A gun does nothing except for intimidate or hurt people. If it's out and in a hand, what the fuck would you have it out for? I think that's the point of the law. Yeah, it causes probably shootings. The more you take a gun out, the more you're probably going to have a chance of shooting people with it, I would assume.

The more you're waving it around in a threatening manner on purpose. Exactly. And it's legal. So, yeah, I don't think. So in May, in 1989 in Maine, you could be in an argument with someone and just take a gun out and wave it around and be like, I'm going to shoot you with this gun. As long as you didn't point it at their face, that's not a crime. That's wild. What an not a crime that's wild belief of a law that's wild so the the mishoud guy said we have stacks of case reports pending prosecution they ultimately go to the district attorney and from there an arrest will hopefully be made but we have to have a case

that's prosecutable or it's a waste of everyone's time that's why they didn't do anything. So July of 89, Florence visits Indiana as she goes there, Florence Phillips. And her daughter, Sandy, said, quote, My mom was afraid to go back because of the Uffelmans and what they were doing. But I guess no one took him seriously. They didn't even want to go back. They were so scared to go back. They didn't want to go back to Maine? No, because she was afraid of what was going on. So August 29th, 1989 michael and florence phillips they have uh kobe kilton and his wife

over with them uh they're hanging out their daughter they're yeah no kobe kilton and their and his wife is like florence's yeah her niece my niece okay whatever so they're over the house and they have 10 year old michael over the house as well the phillipses so after dinner um they go uh they get ready to go on their regular walk through the neighborhood because florence has her heart problem and uh what they do is they set up the video camera in the front just you know always like they always do yeah they as you as one does they point it at their neighbor's house just in case um so you can see in the camera their big giant picture window the the uffelman's big giant picture window and all that sort of thing so um vanessa is the woman's name kobe and vanessa kilton so um now they left the house after supper, like I said, went northbound on Route 191 and then returned a short time later back past the house.

So they go like kind of back and forth. Yeah. So this is from a police report. looked out the kitchen window and observed Michael Phillips, senior, not junior, lying on his back on the road pavement in the front of the Uffelman residence. Kilton subsequently heard a large number of shots. Okay, now, what they see is, this is fucking crazy. Kilton said that they had oriented the camera right before they went out to what they see is a shitload of shots that blow out the front picture window of the house across the street and just clouds of smoke coming out of the house because they're from inside. Yeah.

My Richard was wearing a flak jacket and carrying a double barrel shotgun. Oh, my God. And it gets crazier. You think this is crazier, it gets fucking crazier. So you hear a bunch of gunfire, about a dozen shots. And then off camera, the Phillipses are. You don't see them. They're down below shot.

On camera, Richard Uffelman crosses toward them carrying a rifle oh boy walks over there more shots are heard he walks back this is when he came over with a shotgun and pumped more shots into them from close range while they were on the ground he walks back across the street to his house who Who emerges now? Him and his two sons, all armed with rifles. Sons have.30 caliber rifles. Yeah. They come up. More shots ring out.

Holy shit. The three of them open fire on the Phillipses while they're on the ground. 10 and 12. Holy cow. And then the three Uffelmans walk back to the house. Okay? Oh, boy. It's fucking Okay. It's fucking insane. It's fucking nuts.

They said at least 20 shots in a few seconds in the first thing. Then he waits a couple minutes, comes over, shoots some more, and then he goes back. And that's the fatal shots. Goes back to the house, comes back a couple minutes later with his sons blowing them away the boys jerry and ricky fired 20 to 25 rounds oh my hitting the phillipses several times yeah several of the 30 caliber uh rounds were pulled out of them and they were using 30 caliber while richard was using a double barrel shotgun so you knew who hit what yeah the kids dude hell man they just open barrel shotgun though holds two shells so that's he's shooting

opening that thing up throwing that so many times he might have had a couple things lined up too who knows um he fired his shotgun into the chest of mr phillips who was already dead it was just i guess showing his kids an example there um now inside vanessa and colby are inside while all this gunfire going everywhere and so is young michael oh god seeing all of this um they cover michael up the two of them basically lie on top of michael on the ground at 618 p.m. There's a phone call where Richard calls the police. He calls the state police at 618 p.m. to report this. All right.

This is what happens. The police arrive. And when the police arrive, they find, first of all, Colby and Vanessa kilton crouched behind a pickup truck covering young michael okay across the street that's one of the things they were uh shaking uncontrollably um and colby told the the the troopers he's nuts he shot them he shot them that's all he kept saying he's nuts he's nuts so the troopers told them to leave the area quote unquote like get out of here and go behind the house or something so they drive down the road and uh you know are looking for anybody out in the streets with guns the cops so anyway they end up going to the uffelman house the tibbets the

one officer said that he entered the house to find Richard on his telephone to the police while his wife Anita sat at the table with a rifle, a shotgun, and a revolver in front of her. Which is unsettling, I would think, to walk into. The police officer, Tibbetts, said he looked over to the large picture window that was completely fucking shot out. He shot from inside the house. Inside. window that was completely fucking shot out he's shot from inside the house inside he said there's fucking glass everywhere um and also spent rifle and shotgun cartridges all over the fucking floor everywhere he said tibbets does that he heard uffelman tell the police over the phone that he

quote he had to shoot him that's what he said um so at that point, he said that Uffelman said that he had taken a revolver from Michael Phillips. That's the gun that he has, the revolver on the table. He goes, I took that off Michael Phillips. So then Uffelman grabbed the revolver from the table while the police officer is standing there and says he's going to kill himself. This is how you put him in custody first, right? Yes. It's like there's some policy that needs to be changed. You walk in, clearly gunfire from out of the house, and there's guns on the table and all

this type of shit. Immediately, it's everybody on the fucking ground right fucking now. If I don't see hands, there's going to be fucking holes in skulls. There's too many people. Well, there's been so much gunfire. How do you not? Just to protect yourself, you've got to be like, everybody's got to fucking be still immediately. Everybody's hands up.

No one's picking guns up willy-nilly. Put it that way. So the cop at that point, as a matter of fact, you probably wouldn't walk in by yourself. Maybe get a bunch of people and make the guy come to you probably and lay in the front yard would probably be how you do it so any i don't know i don't know procedure but that seems the smarter way to go about it maybe seems safest or maybe not because he's in there he could open fire from the picture window maybe you have to go in after him i don't know but either way the officer wrestles the loaded fucking revolver out of richard's hands and um it never

and i don't think it gets fired so the police are still on the phone during all this anyway also um he then tibbets uh says that a few minutes later another cop uh he asked another cop to take uffelman across the road quote so he can show you something and um i guess Uffelman across the road, quote, so he can show you something. And, um, I guess Uffelman went back out, went out with the one cop and then came back inside. And according to an affidavit from another trooper,

it says, quote, trooper Tibbetts stated that Richard, uh, uh, Uffelman, I almost said Uttelman said, I had to shoot him. I went down and got his gun and that's it.

Pointing to this, to the stainless steel revolver on the table. Then he said, I shouldn't and got his gun and that's it. Pointing to the stainless steel revolver on the table. Then he said, I shouldn't say any more without a lawyer. Yeah. Then Anita Uffelman told the cop it was awful that it came to this, but Richard had to shoot him because Michael pulled a gun. Okay. So then after a couple minutes, Richard begins sobbing and says, I should have let him shoot first. Yeah. That's what he says.

So two more police show up and they find the bodies in the field across the street where they fell in some grass. And they bring Uffelman out. He's sitting in a police cruiser. And the one police said that he's sitting in there babysitting Uffelman. And Uffelman asked him if he had ever killed anybody in the line of duty. And then Uffelman told Matthews that he was protecting his family and said, I should have let him shoot first. That was his whole thing. Then he gets down to the station and he tells the police captain, whose name is John Whynot.

W-H-Y-N-O-T-T. Get out. Then he gets down to the station and he tells the police captain, whose name is John Whynot. W-H-Y-N-O-T-T. Get out. Johnny Whynot. How much has he used that line to get laid? In the 70s? Johnny Whynot. Should I even say it?

Why not, sweetheart? You know? That was his line. Didn't work very often. No, but the times it did, it was great it's pretty great why not he said quote i shot him i don't know how much i should tell you because i don't want to get into trouble well you just said i shot him that's pretty trouble then he said that uh uffelman said that he came by the house and he had a gun so uffelman's claiming that michael walked up to the house with a gun, like, I don't know, calling him, wanting to have a shootout with him in his own front yard.

He challenged me to a duel. He said, throw down. So I said, I got to throw down. I've seen Tombstone. God tells you to throw down. You got to throw down. I said, throw down, boy. I said, throw down, boy.

So they do a search of the Five Posts house, Five Posts estate. They found everything from antique guns to submachine guns to the old school ones, tons of ammunition, a lot of books on combat techniques and all that sort of shit. Acting on a tip, the bomb squad searched the home for explosives and booby traps as well they found no home no bombs but did find extensive security system systems and on numerous quote homemade electronic devices i don't know what the fuck he's making he made his own simon game i guess it's no he's got the prototype for Tron down here. It's amazing. Yes, the panels are made of wood, and you get splinters from playing Simon,

but still, it's good. So they recovered weapons ranging from a.45 caliber volunteer arms submachine gun and a.460 Magnum Weatherby Mark V hunting rifle to different assault rifles,.22 caliber pistols. 4460 Magnum Weatherby Mark V hunting rifle. My God. Two different assault rifles, 22 caliber pistols. Let's see, what else? 344 Magnums, including a Marlin with a Leopold scope, five 12 gauge shotguns, a 20 gauge over under shotgun, two 30 caliber carbines, eight 22 caliber guns, and a 38 caliber Smith & Wesson pistol, also a.223

Bushmaster rifle,.340 caliber and.460 caliber Weatherby Mark V rifles, an Arabic-type Flintstock rifle, an Asian-type gun of unknown caliber, bulletproof jacket, a spotting scope, numerous boxes of ammunition for the guns record cassettes a diary and assorted papers and books on combat techniques he's dead ass serious this is he's fucking doing some weird shit yeah this is what he's up to this is this is his whole life and all he talks about so and rifles man that's i mean those are those are designed for nothing but killing they kill oh fucking tons of them. Yeah.

So will the boys be charged? That's an interesting question. Excellent question. So Rick and Jerry are not charged in the killing. Really? Yeah, because the authorities said they were uncertain how much control their father wielded over them. Yeah. And if this was like a brainwash situation, which, yeah, he's been making them do marty grade drills since they were fucking five so and they they but still technically they shot already dead bodies too you know what i mean no no they were the opening salvo they were all the

children were in the house firing from the wow the only time richard fired alone is when he went out dumping the shotgun rounds into him and then went back and went back where were you pussies and then got the kids well let this let me show you how to finish people off basically oh my yeah so uh that sounded really disgusting and sexual actually him showing his boys how to finish somebody off is really just grosser than the killing so he uh the state also takes them away from their mother and places them in foster homes after a minute. When the search concluded for the bombs, they opened the house back up and let Anita and the boys back in. Oh, all good to go live here again. And then child services came in and took them away.

Yeah, we can't have them staying in this memory place. This is not good. That's Jesus Christ. So, Richards, this is his story. What happened, Richard? Why'd you do it? Well, he said he fell asleep on the couch after reading a 40-page report that he had sent to Maine's attorney general about the Phillipses. He sent a 40-page report to the attorney general about people throwing fucking bottles on his lawn.

attorney general about people throwing fucking bottles on his lawn and then he took a nap after going over it which is likely going to force you to dream of what happened and fantasize about how you can fix it imagine that document imagine a 40 page document of neighbor bickering how much laughter uh was happening as the attorney general read that he brought a secretary he's like you got come in here you gotta hear jennifer come on you gotta hear this it's hilarious bring coffee you're not gonna believe this it's so funny so um he then said his son jerry awakened him in a scared voice saying daddy they're coming they're coming oh. So the way he put it, he thought that the Phillipses were going to try to throw poisoned food at his dogs. That was what he thought.

So he said he does what anybody would do in that situation. When you think your neighbors are going to poison your dogs, you put a flak jacket on and grab your shotgun. So he picks up very common situations all around. So he picks that up, stands at the picture window so they could see him with the shotgun. Like, don't you dare poison my dogs. Bring that Drano meatball over here. Yeah. He said, as the Phillips has passed by, Michael Phillips, the father, poked fun at Richard by making gestures with hands around his head.

I don't know what gestures he could possibly make. He said, yeah, you're crazy. That's probably what it is. Hey, lunatic. So he said, just as this happened, one of his sons yelled, daddy, he's got a gun. This is what Richard said. He said, so thinking that his family was about to be shot, he said, I opened fire. So thinking that his family was about to be shot, he said, I opened fire.

And then he said his sons automatically just did the same out of training because he said they had, quote, as we told the cops, they had, quote, standing orders to cover him. So he said they knew once the fire started, you just start bucking shots off because, you know, they're highly trained military beings here had his fucking safe word hot dog hot dog no shit jesus marty marty oh shit that's a bad one so he pleads not guilty he's gonna plead by reason of insanity yeah i can see it okay now remember joan ackley the babysitter yes who said it's all the phillips's fault yes okay this is her quote on this is some reactions around town here she says i had no idea no this is way worse she said quote the phillips's would be alive today if they hadn't been harassing him, as far as I'm concerned, they committed suicide. Joan. Joan.

My God. How could you? You watch people's children, Joan. Publicly, you said that. As far as I'm concerned, they committed suicide. And then she was like, you got that? You wrote that down, right, reporter? Okay.

Suicide, I said. Make sure you say suicide. Not just, you know. Suicide upon themselves? How else can I say this? No, say suicide not brought it upon themselves how else can i say no no not brought it but committed suicide i want those words if you're gonna quote me that's the quote i want uh themselves got it may as well have jumped off a short rickety stool got it that's with a noose around their necks you know what i'm talking about a local priest or pastor or some some religious guy who ministered to mr uffelman he blames the phillipses as well what in the fuck is happening this is great from the newspaper here the minister

who spoke on the condition that his name not be used yeah dummy you're a man of fucking oh god yeah said mr awful of uh said of mr offalman quote he was a crackpot so nobody wanted to believe him it's my belief they deliberately pushed him until they pushed him over the edge he's not to be kidding me he said they they poked the bear basically and he was a crazy person and these people knew it and now a local cop at this point said uh that yeah he said he had maybe like some neurological problems richard he said but no one who knew him uh ever considered him crazy or insane he was just kind of a weirdo um including a law enforcement officer here here's a cop who knew both parties the phillips's and the uffelmans he said he was familiar with the situation and he said that he believed uffelman was a harmless man who simply

wanted to be left alone um he also believes that uffelman was provoked into defending his family he said a family uh shot at two a family that was shot at two months before this he said by something the phillipses did out of camera view that night so he's like before this. He said, by something the Phillipses did out of camera view that night. So he's like, that's what, he said, it didn't capture their camera during the shooting, didn't capture whatever they did to piss Richard off. That's what it was.

So they deserved it. They started the gunplay. Yeah. Now, from a dissenting point of view, maybe a saner point of view, Sandy, her daughter here, Sandy Miller, Florence's daughter, the dead woman, she said that her family's deeply hurt by the portrayal by the police and the media that her parents were involved in a long feud with Uffelman.

She said, quote, a feud is where you do something to me, so I do something back and it keeps going. My parents never did anything but try to stop that man from harassing them that's why they made the videos because the police said they needed evidence there you go that makes sense here um uh also um jesus christ uh they said the uffelman kids have been put in homes and she said quote i'm sorry but i just can't be sympathetic i just can't look at them as victims they knew what that man was doing and they could have stopped him. I've got a little boy here whose parents are dead. He's the real victim.

Michael. Yeah, because Michael ends up going to live with his sister. Yeah. So they said that another relative said that their greatest fear is that the jury will decide that Uffelman is insane. They said he goes to a hospital for a few years, then somehow gets all better and he's back on the street.

I hope to God I'm wrong, but I think that's what's going to happen. He said that Michael seems to be doing pretty well. He's a quiet kid. He doesn't always tell you what he's thinking. Like all of us, he's just waiting to see what happens so he can get on with his life. Now, pretty much immediately upon him being charged, he might be mentally unfit in his mind for court, but he's certainly mentally fit to make some real estate moves and do some paperwork. What? Because he immediately tries to shift all of his property holdings into his father's name.

Yeah, because if there's a wrongful death he's going to lose all that so yeah um then a couple months later what happens is 3 45 p.m p.m on a sunday police dispatchers relieve receive a call that acid popular popularly possibly hydrochloric acid has been spilled in the basement of the Uffelman home, which, by the way, is on fire. So, yeah, firefighters from surrounding towns and everywhere here arrived to find this home engulfed in flames and the smell of chlorine fumes in the air. Their house is a chemical weapon at that point.

Burning your eyes as you try to extinguish this. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's fucking nuts. They said because of the uncertainty about the type and amounts of materials in the basement, the firefighters were forced to stand back and let the house burn. Wow. While awaiting the arrival of hazardous material specialists from the department of environmental protection to figure out what the fuck yeah and the georgia pacific

corp they had people had to come in and test shit and yeah it's probably four hours away they said water was not poured on the fire until 7 40 p.m 3 45 is when they got there four hours after the fire started and uh reported that the basement contained only small amounts of muriatic acid. That's what Uffelman said. And an agent used, they said it's an agent used as a brass cleaner and pool chlorine, he said he had, too. That's all there was to it. So the sheriff's deputies had to block off traffic from the whole fucking road. It was as noticeable for miles away the smell of chlorine.

An order was given to evacuate the area to residents near there for hours as well. 30 evacuees they had to take from different surrounding fucking houses, which is it's crazy. One person had to go to the hospital for possible chlorine poisoning. Shortness of breath. That shit will fuck you up, man. Muriatic acid, if you ever smelled that, it's like smelling salts. It'll fuck you up. It's not something you want to smell in a big fire, especially. So, yeah, that's how that ended up happening.

And so now it's very interesting. They said that he said that, yeah, now it's going to that was in his father's name and now it's burned to the ground. So that's a little bit weird. They said that there was more chemicals down there than he said there was as well. So they found boxes of chemicals, including all sorts of different acids left in the basement. So he had way more than he let on. And I guess they had someone living there. They said a tenant dropped a bottle of an unidentified chemical while cleaning the basement

and then somehow it got caught on fire after that. So he dropped a chemical, then set it on fire and ran away. That doesn't sound suspicious, right? So you clean up, clean up chemicals. A quote tenant. Yeah. So they said at one time, Uffelman's assets were considerable. When the five post estates burned to the ground a few months after the murders, a building was made worthless by – this is a great line.

A building made worthless by its owner's monstrosity was converted into a $150,000 insurance settlement. $150,000 is all he got out of it? That's what he got for it, I guess. So while he's in jail, he's being held without bail. The trial is postponed several times, delayed by a bunch of psychiatric evaluations, a change of venue from Macias to Halton, and the resignation of his defense attorney.

That guy wants out. Which is fucking hilarious. The best is that the prison guards can't stand him. Really? Jail guards. This is fucking amazing. He's describing himself to the press as a quote captive of the state and a victim of a conspiracy. A captive of the state. He gets crazier.

You think we've gotten to the full crazy no no no no no no this is we're nowhere near the where the bell dings top of crazy on the strength tester this is nowhere near it so um he's a victim of a conspiracy and that's how it is um so the sheriff of washington county had uffelman moved to another county jail to quote, give his staff a break from what he called Uffelman's persistent violations of jail regulations. They were so tired of him. They had to move him out. More like awful men. Awful men. That's a perfect name for him. Awful men. Eventually, eventually they had to return him though obviously so september of 89 like i said they took the kids away from anita um she had to move like all around she took the kids somewhere to new york and then

they ended up having them getting taken away and then she ended up moving in with a relative she's like bouncing all over the place she's in there too oh well she's was sitting at the table going well they all deserved it now she is uh allowed one one hour visit with her children each week and uh she said that as a result of this hearing visitations could be extended to weekends if she undergoes a regular program of psychological therapy yeah you know fix your shit right so richard hears about this in jail and goes on a hunger strike yeah so he really wants to be like a like some sort of political prisoner who's being fucking persecuted yeah but he's definitely not he says he's only saw his sons once in september so he's going on a hunger strike. He also refused food to protest the actions

to take the kids away from his wife as well. And so he's upset with this treatment because he's not convicted of anything. Therefore, you can't treat me like this, right? Is that what he's saying? Exactly. That's what he's saying. And he's plus, you know, he's it's all because he's him. You know, it is. It's a it's a conspiracy. That's how it's how conspiracies work. Because he's him. You know how it is. It's a conspiracy. That's how conspiracies work.

Okay. So his dad writes an editorial in the local newspaper called Bureaucracy Gone Wild. Oh, boy. That's what it's called. And it is fucking, it's wild, man. It's a letter about how the Speaker of the House is out there just showing her tits. And it's also him, you know, dirtying the waters more before the trial. That's the other thing.

It says, let's see here. In connection with an act of self-defense involving my son Richard, his wife Anita and their two boys on August 29th, through gross distortion of the facts and unremitting harassment and intimidation is very evidently seeking to destroy my son's family here are some of the things they have already done said police who seized the boys and what they can be regarded what can only be regarded as a full-scale kidnapping the youngsters were handcuffed and taken by force from their mother what could be more cruel shooting people 20 to 25 times across the street that's the least uh harsh thing that's been done to these boys yeah uh placing them in foster home where conditions for them are extremely difficult seriously affecting their physical health by preventing us from calling them on the telephone even just to wish them happy holidays. DHS, Department of Human Health Services.

No, not that then. Denied the boys their parents, godfather, and great aunt their constitutional and civil rights. You have a constitutional right to talk to your great aunt around the holidays. I believe that's a new amendment, but it's there. It's in the Bill of Rights. Denied the boys their first amendment rights with regard to religion by forbidding visits by christian missionaries who wish to minister them for spiritual well-being good don't let fucking military unparented for un no don't let missionaries

talk to unparented lone unaccompanied children who have no way of fending off these people. Wards of the state. Convince them. The kid's 10. You might believe Santa Claus still comes. Which he does, obviously, if anybody's listening. He does. He does.

But not the Easter Bunny. He's fake as fuck. Don't have your mom convince you there's a tooth fairy. That's ridiculous. That's silly. Yeah, your parents are giving you money because they think it's fun to collect your teeth. Right, good. Because they do weird shit with your teeth sexually.

I'm telling you, kids, it's creepy, but they do. They do. Your mom puts them in her mouth, and then it's studded for his pleasure. Okay, it's one thing if it's your grandmother, but if it's their parents, I feel like they might be upset by that. Yeah, that might be a bridge to bar. Maybe. We don't know. We don't know if they're comedians.

So they said that also denying her denying all these fucking rights. He said, can it be possible that this agency supposed to exist to help people is in any way human or humane when it does such things as I have listed? I have written to some of their personnel about this and have not received even the courtesy of a reply oh my uh they should be brought together again as soon as possible their survival their very survival may depend on it wow okay so october 1991 is the trial this trial will be bifurcated which means uh for all of you fucking legal scholars out there this means that there's one trial for for guilt and then if he's found guilty there's another trial to see if he's sane oh so yeah that he's they'll establish his guilt and then is it

you know is he sane or is he going to a mental hospital we're not doing it in the same place no and then he'll have if he's found sane then he'll have a sentencing hearing after that if he's found insane he'll have obviously be committed to somewhere right so um he uh he says their whole defense is that he's insane he doesn't deny doing it he says he did it in self-defense and he's crazy at the same time those are his so either one of those if you figure out yeah i'm good with okay the question is how do you determine self-defense if you're fucking crazy that's the difference and i think that's the part that's gonna fuck his case up a little bit because he's not sane enough to know what's happening according

to him so it's a high hurdle yeah it's like a pole vault they didn't give you a stick for. You know, it's rough. You better jump, motherfucker. Yeah. So in his opening statement, the attorney general said, it's nine women and six men, 12 of them are regulars

and then your alternate's there, that they would, quote, be witness to a shooting that, witness to the shooting. You will be transported back to the place and time by videotape taken by the Phillips's camera. They have the tape and trial of this whole thing. So that's not going to the shooting. You will be transported back to the place in time by videotape taken by the Phillips' camera.

They have the tape and trial of this whole thing. So that's not going to look good for us. We have Doc Brown and Marty right here for you. There he is. He's right here. Get in. Get in. Hop in, everybody.

We're going back in time. Let's do it. Huey, hit it. I was just going to say, Huey, fire it up. Back in. There we go. Yeah. That's right.

One, two, three, four. Let's do it, Yui. So they said that the camera was trained on the Uffelman house to record the harassment incidents of which they had been complaining. The prosecutor said the tape shows, quote, the barrage of gunfire from the Uffelman house, 20 to 25 shots. The tape also shows Uffelman coming from the house twice, carrying a rifle to the place off camera where the bodies were. He said that also more shots were heard both times. They said to expect testimony from police, physicians, psychiatrists, ballistic experts, all these people. He said, we will show beyond a run beyond a reasonable doubt that Richard Uffelman committed these crimes of murder. And then he defined main law and told them all that shit.

So he said, there's a lot of different ways to look at the circumstances. I'll put it to you in an environment so you can understand this in more than black and white. That's what his that's the defense attorney. He said that this isn't just a black and white thing. He said Uffelman's going to testify and quote, when he's on the witness stand, I asked you to look at Mr. Uffelman carefully. See how he responds. I believe that although Mr. Uffelman committed this act, it does not constitute murder. My God. That's what he says. So, yeah, we're doing the bifurcated thing. And he says that it's going to be the same jury by

the way that decides both of them and he says that he's going to establish he's got mental disorders brain damage all sorts of shit so there's that trial starts okay now uh sandra phillips the daughter testifies about michael phillips condition now says that the brother moved to Indiana with her about a week after the shooting. She said before the shooting, her brother had been affectionate and happy, but he became sullen, cold and withdrawn immediately after the witnessing the death of his parents.

Weird, weird, super strange. She said, nightmare nightmares persisted for years and months. Cause this is two years after the fucking murder that this trial takes place she said i would hear him crying and he'd tell me about his nightmares he's still afraid uffelman will get out of jail and harm him and of uffelman's boys finding him

and harming him um she also said her brother attempted suicide once while living with her he's at most 12 at most 12 years old that's horrific man that is fucking horrible um she also said quote he wished he said he said he wished he was dead he said he wished he had taken a walk with mom and dad that night because he wanted to be with them this poor child my god jesus christ she said also since september 1993 he's been living in a residential treatment center for his issues this poor kid she said that he no longer trusts people quote he's afraid to get close to people now he's afraid of losing them this poor child jesus christ so michael testifies in court though oh my god he steps up he's now 12 He was 10 at the time of the murders. Now he's 12.

During this, he's interrupted several times by Richard shouting at him. A broken 12-year-old who's scared shitless of this guy, and he knows that, so he yells stuff out multiple times. At one point, this is fucking crazy, man. Um, he said that, uh, uh, if he remembered, he asked if he remembered the, the, the shooting of his mother. And at that point, Uffelman shouted out, Mikey, I'm sorry. Why does he have to be here? What's wrong with you people?

Now it's, it's the course. How dare you people? What's wrong with you people? I just shot his parents may forcing him to come testify about what he saw as their dying moments. What's wrong with you people for making him do this? Wow. Then they played the tape. Oh, boy.

They played the tape with Mike telling everybody what was going on for him while this was going on. Yeah. What he was doing. How he was feeling. So as this is going on, the moment that a barrage of gunfire exploded, fucking Richard jumps up and yells to distract from it. And says, stop, stop. Wait, Mikey. Stop, stop.

He's like, everybody stop. Let's marinate in this for a minute. Let's marinate. So they wrestle him to the fucking ground and everything else and pull him off. That's later, though. We'll keep it going here. So they tell him to shut the fuck up.

He says, Michael, young Michael says, I heard gunshots. I heard mom yelling. I went back to the back bedroom and heard shots and Uffelman's house outside. Alarm went off and he said, they asked, do you still fear Richard? And he said, I'll always be scared of him. They asked if he missed his parents.

No, obviously he said, that's just emotional. You know, whatever. Yes. Every day. I don't have to. I don't have anyone to go to when I'm scared. I feel like I can't trust anyone the way i did before so then fucking richard stands up and says michael i'm so terribly sorry i know i was the instrument but i had no choice oh boy i was the instrument um so michael immediately fucking

looks down at his hands because he's scared scared shitless um so uh yeah they ended up pulling him out of the fucking courtroom richard at that point they said do you feel like um the lawyer said do you feel like i would hurt you and he said yes yeah i don't know you motherfucker yeah it's fucking crazy um so uh yeah this all goes on. Another of a licensed clinical social worker testified that he examined Phillips to assess his mental state and preparation. And they said he's got PTSD at this point, generally sad mood, difficulty concentrating and sleeping, still hears the sound of gunshots. And, yeah, they said that he'll probably never overcome the impact of the murders and most likely will require at least monthly counseling and therapy sessions throughout his life. So they play the tape, like I said, and the tape is pretty goddamn damning. You don't see the Phillips is actually being shot.

That's off camera. But you see him walking out with guns and you see the gunfire and you know what happens. So it's pretty fucking disturbing um especially the glass with all the smoke it's it looks like a weird like a western or something so for the defense jerry the son he testifies jerry uffelman and um he says that the phillipses shot at them while they were in the swimming pool that one time and he said that changed the whole atmosphere before that everything was friendly but it wasn't at all um he said that uh uh from remotely scared to terrified is what jerry said that's how he felt about the phillipses he went from being remotely scared to now terrified after they shot

at him he said on the day of the shooting his father said that he was getting really upset and nervous and richard had uh you know uh rich Richard said he was really upset and scared. And young Ricky, when he's on the stand, he said, I was just doing what my dad wanted us to do. I felt he knew best. Now, Mike, yeah, they said that they swore that they had a gun. Richard had said that he swore the Phillipses had a gun. But under cross examination here also, the boys said they had received secret notes from their father while they were in foster care.

The notes were an outline of what happened during the shooting. Here's your story. He got notes out to his kids in foster care. Here's what you're going to testify unreal that's fucking wild um that's that's crazy that's a bridge too far so um wow um that's i don't even know what to say about that they said they didn't know uh if michael or their father shot first but they said they shot when their father shot after. Yeah.

And Anita testified that she and her husband always have been fearful of the Phillips because of the references the Phillips made to wars. They'd been back. They'd been involved in back in the slums they lived in before coming to Maine. So they were afraid of them because they're because they're from rural Indiana. They're gangsters. They didn't have 38 guns and fucking airplane lights. And tripwires. So Richard testifies. It's time.

He says he recounts during his testimony his failed attempt to become a Navy SEAL and a police officer at one point in his native New Jersey. And he said he's been working as a, quote, unpaid... Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. What's he doing? This is... I can't... He's been working as an unpaid federal informant, quote, for patriotic reasons. That's what he said he's been doing lately. he's annoying people this is what he's doing no

no not the phillipses that's not what he's informing on no no no no no oh what's he informing on oh oh boy he said his his work in new jersey as an unpaid and government informant left him and his family under constant threat of retaliation by those he had turned in he said so this this includes the phillipses everybody could be involved they could the phillipses could be a plant by some family that he's set up he tells a story this is his story on the stand he gets in front of a court people with college degrees and says this shit he says on the trial that michael and florence were part of a drug and espionage gang oh for pete's sake that's what it was and that's the whole thing

this is all above everyone here's pay grade is what he's getting at you guys don't understand drugs espionage it's well above just neighborly disputes they were they were borns he said and they knew that he was an undercover government agent probably and so then he they were they were borns he said and they knew that he was an undercover government agent probably and so then he they were just biding their time till they were going to take him out that's why they came there the kid probably isn't even their kid who knows who knows um he says that i mean it sounds absurd now sitting in court is what he said but you know it's ridiculous uh you know what the fuck here so they said uh they asked him if his sons were a part of the shooting and he were first refused to answer yeah and then he said i wish you wouldn't

ask me that well i did so can you answer then they said finally sums it up by saying that the boys had received quote previous instructions to defend our house if it was necessary to chase shooters away yeah so that's my answer they then had aware yeah they're they're aware they then had him describe how he drilled his 10 and 12 year old sons and uh militarily and how they opened fire from their living room window and all of this shit they They go through the whole thing. In the press, the one reporter said he seemed to have a fatherly pride that, quote, repulsed all the courtroom. Yeah.

Yeah. He also described on the stand how his sons went with him across the road to finish off the wounded couple at point blank range. Oh, my God. Yeah. to finish off the wounded couple at point blank range oh my god yeah he said uffelman on the stand he said his sons now it's both sons woke him up from a nap to tell him they were coming he says that uh michael was making taunting gestures and that from the window all the way down the front yard to the road he could notice the bulge of a holster under Phillips' shirt. I want Vinny Gambini to come in here with his fucking measuring tape and go, I think you need a thicker pair. Because that seems like that's a long way to see a bulge of a holster under a shirt.

And if you've got one that's an undercover one like that like that that's for concealing yeah weapon the point of them is that they don't show they're very slim yeah exactly so he said he obviously threw on his flak jacket and grabbed a shotgun yeah and um he said time to go to war to caution them from doing something stupid that's what he said he was doing it for. He said he saw Michael Phillips then pull a revolver out and point it at his house. He pointed it right at him. He believed that Phillips had fired, so he said that he, even though he didn't hear it, no one else did, he said, I believe they must have fired.

So he fired his shotgun twice, but he said he doesn't remember firing any other shots. He said, you know, he said, you know, he did go to the he took the sons with him and all that. And he said, I don't know what the kids were doing at the time. I'm not sure they were standing next to him on either side. Empty fucking rounds flanking him. He says that I have memory losses here and I don't know. I don't know what happened. He said that the prosecutor said, so these people know you.

They know your house is a fortress. They know you have tripwires and guns and flak jackets and all this shit. And they attacked your house. They made a frontal assault in broad daylight with one revolver. Right. That's what you're telling me? That was the time where they said, fuck it, we're going in? Five or six rounds into the facade of your house.

And that's it. And we're coming out with carbines. He said, I mean, that's must have been what happened. He did say he told the boys to his boys to stop shooting after the first barrage. And he said he believed the house was still under attack at that point. That's why they said, well, why did you tell your boys to put the guns down if the threat was not over and he said well after the first barrage he said he looked outside and saw florence phillips helping her husband hold the pistol so i assumed she wanted to fight too

that's when they went outside and shot fucking florence in cold blood while she tried to help her fucking wounded husband that's what happened shit um he said he went outside the first time to retrieve the gun he said even though it was suicide to do so i'm such a brave man i went out to do it anyway that's literally what he was saying he said when he found the body of florence he said she was laying on the ground just like a deer oh boy that's what he said and then uh he um yeah and then he spoke directly to michael phillips uh from the stand too as his testimony ended uh yeah uh they said that michael phillips later on was found to be carrying two pistols but neither

one had been fired after being tested by the fucking police so he did nothing they hadn't even been taken out except for when fucking i guess as one was as michael was going down he was trying to get one out as he was imagine that imagine it's raining upon him imagine having to be on a walk for your wife's health because she's 41 and her heart's not that strong and you have to be strapped with two weapons while you walk down the street that's your across the street neighbor might tormenting lunatic neighbor stands in his picture window with a fucking winchester what the shit man and a flak jacket yeah so unbelievable verdict comes in here um now this is just for is it murder or self-defense? That's just for that.

They find him guilty of murder, obviously, of cold-blooded fucking murder. So now the insanity hearing comes up. He's been convicted, so he's back in court here. He's back again. Yeah. And same jury is going to decide prison or a mental institution. And I guess the insanity thing comes up a lot but uh it doesn't often do the bifurcated trial thing i think it's certain states do that so the defense attorney

said that unlike the criminal trial the burden of proof is on the defense to prove that he is not responsible for his actions now he said he would attempt to establish that he is ulfelman suffers from brain damage and mental disorders sufficient to result in a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity um the attorney general though told the jury again that uh he uh quote told us richard offalman intentionally and knowingly killed michael and florence phillips beyond a reasonable doubt with no justification keep that in mind there's one witness for the defense dr b. Brian Rines, a psychologist who examined Uffelman earlier in the year. He said that Uffelman suffered from brain damage as a result of a motorcycle accident.

He said that brain damage aggravated already existing psychological problems rooted in his adolescence, resulting in serious mental illness and an intense delusion of persecution. There's a lot of people that fall under that fucking category. Yeah, he said that, in the world in general, he said that his evaluation of Uffelman and Uffelman's own testimony last week led him to form the opinion that Uffelman was, quote, significantly impaired in his ability to think and act rationally. significantly impaired in his ability to think and act rationally. The prosecutor, though, contends that his trips from the house,

plus a series of other actions recorded on the tape, such as him putting the flak jacket on, turning on an alarm, showed that he was well aware of what he was doing all throughout the incident. He was like, well, it's wartime. Put your stuff on. It's war time put your stuff on it's go time he the prosecutor also used the defense attorney the defense psychologist's own report to make the case as well in the final draft of the report says in there somewhere that it is likely that richard uffelman at the time of the alleged offense was able to appreciate right from wrong

so they're going with yeah he's crazy but he knew what he was doing was wrong. That's their whole thing. So the Rinds responded that he meant right up to that very moment rather than at the time. That's when they recalled him. So Uffelman also testified in this. He talked about arm drills with his wife and his two sons. He talked about Marty raids raids and uh ryan's then the the psychologist comes up and says quote the unreasonable feel of fear of marty and the facade

of undercover work led to a situation in which the defense became a ritual in the uffelman house so he's in this total he isn't an undercover espionage informant or any of that shit. He created his own reality where he is this wanted guy and this house is under siege and they have to defend it. So the verdict on sane or insane comes in and they say sane. Yes. And an asshole. Yes. And he sucks. Can we add a charge of asshole to sane?

So December of 1991, sentencing comes around. And remember Bob Cord, the guy who had to fire him for shooting a dog? Bob said, I'd like to go down to the courthouse to see him sentenced, but my wife and my friends are afraid. They think he's going to burst from the fucking table and get him. of like burst from the fucking table and get him he said that um the prosecutor during the sentencing said that uffelman acted like an assassin gunning down the couple and uh had his sons involved in the crime he said the net of violence was cast far and wide and included michael and florence phillips in uffelman's and uffelman's own family as well now his attorney uffelman's attorney urged the judge to take into account

his client's mental condition when sentencing him please your honor he said quote i suggest that this was an ongoing mental problem that culminated at this time he went over the edge he continues to hold fast to the belief that he was defending himself and his family then what the fuck it doesn't matter uffelman gets up and speaks for 45 minutes on his own behalf he did a headline set dude you're better off just saying i'm sorry it's terrible and sitting down 45 the judge wants to he you've wasted that judge's time now now they want you to waste time and more time in prison because you've wasted their time. What can you say in 45 minutes? 45 minutes?

He described the reasons for his actions. He talked about his informant days. He talked about how he was constantly under siege. Jesus Christ. He said, quote, we were a family living in extreme fear. I did not want to shoot these people. We've lost everything. Then he said, I even thought they explained how he thought that Phillips had fired upon him. He said, I even thought I saw smoke. That's the only thing that would make me shoot out of the living room window. Then he said, quote, I was set up to be murdered in a bizarre video game. Oh, my God. A bizarre. They set up the camera. That means it's a bizarre video game and they were going to shoot him through the window so they had it on film and they could rewatch it or some shit.

So the jury, or the judge in this case, says you, sir, may fuck off. Jesus, if not just to get you out of my courtroom and the fuck out of here and shut you the fuck up. 50 years for the murder of Michael Phillips and a concurrent sentence for the murder of Florence Phillips of life in prison. Take that. Take a hike, asshole. So they shit can him away from there. Yeah. People are still scared of him, though.

Sure. from there um yeah uh people are still scared of him though sure the uh reaction some of the families who've known him for years think he's paranoid and are afraid he'll get out of jail and take revenge for run-ins he's had with them in the past holy shit one time i cut in line at the post office and he yelled at me he's gonna come kill me now fair that's a fair thing um 92 they put a lot wrongful death suit comes out, finally. And that is Sandra and Michael there, Sandra Miller, Florence's daughter, and Michael Phillips. They file this.

He now lives in Indiana with Sandra there. And they discuss how there's the quarter million dollar estate that they have been pursuing, but that burned down, then passed into the father's hands and all that kind of shit. Gave it like another level of protection, almost. estate that they have been pursuing, but that burned down, then passed into the father's hands and all that kind of shit, gave it like another level of protection almost. So Anita Uffelman is

also charged in separate counts of agency, intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligent infliction of emotional distress. She is also charged with an account of, quote, failure to supervise for permitting her son to use firearms in a manner which she knew or should have known would create the likelihood of bodily injury or death to third parties. Yeah, I would say so. Said Anita. Anita Uffelman knew or should have known that the harassment was the result of her husband's unstable mental condition and that his condition could precipitate the shooting that happened. So, yeah, they said that she also failed to notify authorities or seek treatment for her or her husband.

All of these things are true. If you're supposed to be the sane one, what the fuck, where were you? Right. You know? So, now, meanwhile, who knows how dominant of a force he's walking around with shotguns all the time. He's got enough force and intimidation tactics down to make children fire upon people. What is he doing to that poor wife? Fucking unbelievable.

So, anyway, the whole thing comes in and a judgment comes down for guilty, I guess you would say. $513,320. Not bad. Entitling Michael to essentially all of Uffelman's assets and income. So by 2001, though, interest had accrued the award to over $1 million. Michael Phillips has received not a fucking penny. Are you kidding me? He got nothing.

But we'll talk about it. His kids, Ricky and Jerry, both went to expensive private colleges and all this shit with high tuitions. How the fuck? You'll hear about it. Yeah. And they also, several newspaper articles say they won't mention what schools the kids went to or what their hobby is but they just keep saying an expensive school and they both have quote expensive hobbies they just keep saying so it's fucking wild like classic cars or some shit racing drag racing i don't fuck yeah i was thinking

it has to be something with cars it's something hillbilly like that so during the appeals his main point of contention richard is that his lawyer stole from him. He said he has nothing because his lawyer stole everything from him. And he thinks that they should investigate the crimes against his lawyer, not him. That's what we should do. My lawyer is the real criminal here. So that's how that works. So 2001, same year, older Uffelman's son, he got a job, went to college.

He went to college. Now he has a good job. The younger son, who talks about it's his fourth year. This is right from the Bangor newspaper. It's his fourth year at a prestigious private college, the kind of place where $35,000 a year merely covers the basics. What? This is in 2001 2001 by the way yeah private it's a 60 000 college today isn't it at least yeah he's studying computers in his spare time he pursues a high class hobby a snobby activity that involves training equipment and lots of expensive travel is What? Is it like boating?

Is he like a fucking one of those America's Cup guys? Is he a fucking sailboat kid? That's exactly what it sounds like. They said he's the son of the man who murdered Michael's parents. Then they talk about Michael Phillips, who's now 21 too. He's got a fiance named Shelby at this time and a future mother-in-law named Brenda that are trying to help him get the money that he deserves. And he's having a hard time.

They talk about him trying to rebuild his life. He watched the horror of his parents and all this type of shit. They said that he's had a bunch of dead end jobs. He's trying to go back to school so he can get into a trade school. Maybe something in automotive repair he's talking about because he can't afford to go to a different school so he said that's the cheapest one he could afford he said that um yeah he's just there he's trying to save up to get married working like fast food jobs and stuff and god damn it trying to save up to go to school uh but they said uh

they continue and now evidence that even from a prison cell, Richard Uffelman is able to provide for his sons in a way. Father's not doing life for double murder and not owing five hundred thirteen thousand three hundred twenty dollars plus interest would envy anyone who believes all the money that rightfully belongs to Michael Phillips has simply disappeared and is not worth looking for. Believes believes far more than I do. So yeah, he's, this kid is scraping fucking anything to, to get by.

Well, those kids are apparently yachting or some shit. We don't know. Sailboating. Yeah. They keep on trying to collect something. They said in New Jersey, there's been a few breakthroughs.

Brenda, his mother-in-law, and Michael had a talk with an investigator for the special prosecutor's office and found out some information about Uffelman's account that came through some other agency. They said they've been given information about exceptions to the statute

of limitations because now they're running up against statute of limitations. They're just waiting it out um they said maine authorities in a position to go after the big money the big threat you know the big center of it there they said they just haven't done it so they don't know what to do there's a big article about how new jersey has been looking into this but in maine they've done nothing wow it's fucking nothing on the whole thing so that's how that goes and then finally february 2nd 2021 richard uffelman dies in prison yay there you go fuck you i love this god i hope it was covet i hope it took him months to die great fucking jerk you know that you're a shitbag in life when at the end of your obituary it says, quote, he was roughly 74 years old. Somewhere around.

I know how old he is. I gave you his birth date earlier. You know what I'm saying? They're like roughly 74. We don't give a fuck. Who cares? That's amazing. That's how little they gave a shit about that asshole.

Wow. So that's pretty fucked up, though. His kids got to go off and do all this stuff and uh westrian or something fucking extensively with with his money you know what i mean i'm sure he had a lot of money and then this poor michael phillips has no parents and he can't do shit it's sad it's fucking sad that's horrific man i feel awful about that shit but um that is a what kind of a crazy story is that honestly man this is like there are so many victims two people so many victims and it's one of those things it's your

neighbors what do you do yeah you live there it's not like a move right yeah it's not like i won't drive past that part of the neighborhood like you fucking live there there's nothing you can do you're gonna uproot your family? That's fine. They lived where their fucking house backed up to a beach. Right. On the ocean. They've done all the work they should ever have to do.

Fuck, man. They've made it. And directly across the street, there's a peckerhead. That's awful. And you could do that back then on a, quote, modest salary, as they described a salary. Oh, God, yeah. You buy a house on the beach. That's insanity. That's Maine, man.

That's wild. So anyway, that's Macias, McKees, McKays, Machays, Port, Maine. Something Maine. And that is the story for this week. Hope you enjoyed it. If you did, tell the world about it. It does help us out a lot. Head over to whatever app you're listening to.

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We'll announce it next week. You know what? Fuck it. We did it. May 5th, we're doing another virtual live show. There you go. Cinco de Mayo. Cinco de Mayo.

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holy shit do we have amazing Patreon this week. We have gotten so... Every week there's a couple that we have every time, every week with Patreon we get overwhelmed with social media shit where people are like, oh that's the funniest one. Oh that's the funniest one. Thank you for caring and loving these episodes.

If you haven't done it yet, patreon.com slash crime and sports. This week the two episodes are and you get access to Crime and Sports and Small Town Murders bonus episodes. There's a huge back catalog, the whole deal. This week, you get personal ads that we talk about. And that sounds vague, but we talk about, we go back and find newspaper archives of these personal classified ads of, you know, single white female looking for love and they're fucking hilarious. This week they're from Detroit and Mississippi. Those are the two we picked and it's 1985 and 1991 and they're funny as shit.

Do yourself a favor and check those out. And then we discussed the Tinder swindler for small town murders bonus episode. And that was insane too we made fun of that dickhead a lot and um we really went after him hard and then we also talked about anna delvey too involved in that another dickhead show yeah she's in it she just got deported like yesterday she's gone they finally they finally pulled her ass out yeah we need zero anna delvey's in this fucking country none none go None. Go away. If you weren't already born here, fuck off.

Get out of here. You're scamming ass. Awful. We don't need any more social media whore fucking, and I don't mean that in a whore like that. Jimmy's a social media whore too, but we don't need that type who steals from people. At least Jimmy's an honest man. We got enough in America. We don't need to import them. We don't need to import them.

So check those out their episodes are hilarious that is uh patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get that five dollars or above gets you everything and a shout out yes you're gonna get in just a minute as a matter of fact wait if also if you want the shout out and nothing else paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com. Jimmy, give it to me. I need it. I need to hear. I've heard all about bad people and people you don't want to live around.

Tell me people who would be good neighbors, who would never have their children open fire at us through a picture window. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Carol Braun and KC. Thank you, Carol, for sticking with us for all these years. You're fantastic. We're going to do our best to get to Kansas City as soon as possible. We will.

Do we have? No, we don't. Not yet. Not on this tour. I promise we'll try. The next tour, hopefully, maybe. We'll see. Marion Kahn, Holly Davidson, Susanna Platt, Jordan Bennett, and Jumanji the Mailman, thank

you all so much for being fucking fantastic, truly. Thank you. Our producers this week are Rachel and Cody, who just got engaged. Congratulations, you two. She said yes. Make it last. Don't fuck it up, Cody. Don't turn into one of our stories, please. Also, Carl Kirshner,

Liz Vasquez, Archer Hale loves his mom, evidently. Peyton Meadows, Norman Fell. Mason is a girl, by the way, and she's the one. Yeah, Norman did fall. Yeah, he did. Norman Fell is the fucking guy from Three's Company. Right, I know. Yeah, Mr. Norman fell. Yeah, Norman did fall. Yeah, he did. Norman fell. It's a fucking guy from Three's Company. Right, I know.

Yeah, Mr. Roper. Sorry. And Mason fell also and she is the one that hit her knee at the theater. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She got 17 fucking stitches.

Oh, my God. We're so sorry. That's terrible. That's a big cut. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, Mason. Less booze. Maybe Chicago had it right by accident.

Other producers also still are James Marder, Spalding Smales' booger. He said that, I can't say it. The person donated and asked that I say the booger that Spalding Smales ate. And that is the most horrific thing. I can barely say it. That's so gross. What was that from? Is that Animal House?

No. Spalding Snails? Who is that? I don't know who it is. I don't even want to picture it. I know I've seen it. I don't know. I don't want to get any further into it.

Let's move on. Into this booger eating? God damn it. Sarah, where did I go? Sarah Group, Tiramisu Shuffle, Son of Jack, Sam's Stuff for Sale. Mike Collier is a chef in Sedona, James. And if you'd like to go visit him, I'll give you the information to go do that. Rabbi Shmulevich and Shedda Perlman, Swamp Queen Jess, Lauren Jarkowski,

Gabia Vicente, Johnny Udy, Ted Unra, Mike Hawk. Are you happy? Are you proud of yourself? You made me, Mike Hawk. Are you happy? Are you proud of yourself? You made me say Mike Hawk. Are you proud? God damn it. Janice Hill, Thomas Smith, Frank, the South African bird washer, Hannah Berkner, Jonathan Harden.

Happy Harmony Boutique. What is this? General Shitzoff. Shirts off. It's not bad. Sarah Serge's friend,, M. Buckler. Congratulations on whatever that's for. Happy birthday.

Happy anniversary. I don't know. M. Buckler, thank you so much. Moving on. Cody Hedrick. Ivy with no last name. Marcus Hickman. Katya Huru.

Billy Graham Jr. Jesus, I hope not. Molly with no last name. Amy White. Ezra Sonmez. Clove Schlaff. Adam P., Stephen Fraley. I wonder if that's Ace's kid. Ashley Han Solo, Kristen Harrison, Mike McHale, Michael Hayes, Michelle Crothers, Amanda Price, William Hubble, Micah Hale, Sleeping Collectibles, Joe, oh boy, Vredenberg, Jessica Olin, Bo Hellstrom, Megan Hanshew, Jamie with no last name, Barbie Hurst, Gavin Ratcliffe, Mary

Lassiter, Chris, nope, that's Chris, Chris Whitney, Sarah Behrens, Tommy D, Abigail Wimes, Michaela, Michaela Chesek, Matt Lawson, Melissa Tront, Jason Whitaker, Angela Marie, Jason Hathaway, Mary King, Cynthia Gambolo, Detective B, Jennifer Ruth, Peter Stewart, Carrie with no last name, Laura Rupert, Lacey Webb, Amy Payne, Ed Monk, Candace Gray, Erica with no last name, Zachary... Sure, last names. I know it. You're a bunch of like Webb and Gray and Monk. Crushing.

Yeah, fly. Zachary Janus, James. Don't name your kid Hugh. Susan Gochius. Gochius. Kitty Revolution. Blake Headley. Jack Adams.

Joey Burt. Nicole Ewing. Kristen Kirkpatrick. Bradley Baker. Mackenzie McQuillan. Unknown Dayglo. Christian Rosas. Residual Silver.

Michelle Nippling, Brendan Alexander, Sarah Laella, Sean Fuller, Matt Studer, Holly Bryant, Logan Kurz, Dean Balzer, Vinnie Kalk, oh, Kolponowski, Holly Hartman, Laura Mean, Seth Tackett, Adeline Reyes, Aaron Hoekstra, Robert Freeman, the Trashstick Plast Bag Salesman of the Year, Gigi with no last name, Haley Ann, Tiffany Muehlstein. I'll never live that down. Never ever. I love it. I don't mind it at all.

That's my favorite. I love it. It's the dumbest shit ever. Taylor, Andy Bowman, Claire Dunn, Nathan Nelson, Lucas Madel, Cheese Dip, Dawson Howard, Allison Gregg, T.O., Sandy Allen, Erica Bick, okay, I'm going to paste myself, Jarrett Matina, Lindsay Giamarino, Hillary Barrett, Andy Rivera, Lance Booker, Kristen Wissig, Jenny Ahonen, Lana with no last name, Christy with no last name, Rachel Brabeck, Jimmy Schweigert, Jamie Waters, Tarmac492. Wow.

That's who they are. Cody Lambert. How about Taminator? No Taminators? Not yet. Cody, Kaylee, Kaylee Harbin, Johnny Saracen-Gooseman, Nick Widener, Matthew Dickens, Shannon and Aaron, Liam Ferris, Vanessa Fay, Rachel McDonald, Zoe Suski, Joey Nix, Phillip Palloni, I think, Lizia Fisher, Aaron Hardman, Samuel Thomas Gerstein, Amber Nicole Alston, Jillian Jackson, Brett Fager, Brandon Bayshore, Danny Edmondson, Laura Delano, Sydney Yarborough, Michael Wright, Andrew Boca, Alex Robinson, Jennifer Martin, Serena Kershoff,

Holly Johnson, Shannon Orr, Samantha Lynch, Marla with no last name, Moss Barrel, Bull Bull, probably not, Nicholas Midton, Jasmine Scott, Jennifer Gordon, Nick Tater, Chris Mislonka, Coco T, Asa asa spades soads that's got to

be spades that's a misspelling sarah garrig garing uh chelsea hog hog uh julia zebrowski okay uh peter cops and cassidy towery and obviously all of our patrons you guys are fantastic thank you thank you so so so fucking much everybody for what you do for us thank you we just we appreciate it so much and uh we just hope the bonus episodes are a good we're giving back hopefully you're like yay that's well worth it yes we hear all the time that's the best five dollars you'll ever spend so thank you for doing that it's it might not seem like a lot but to us it's a lot. Any dime you give us,

we are so appreciative of. Because you don't have to. It's a free show. You can just listen to this show and say fuck off with the rest of it. So thank you for caring. And you go out of your way for us and we really,

it's impossible to tell you how much we appreciate it. Absolutely is. Thank you so much. And yeah, that said, if you want to find us on social media, shit like that, look up the show. Shut up and give me murder.com or smalltownmurderpodcast. The hosts, we're there.

We're the only two hosts. You're not going to get confused. It's us. Find us there and keep coming back week after week after week because we're never going away or stopping. Right. That's what we got to say. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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