Small Town Murder - #269 - Bad Company - Magnolia, Arkansas

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

This week, in Magnolia, Arkansas, a nice young lady, almost finished with her college degree, meets up with could definitely be considered the "bad boy". Not only is he older, but he's also been convicted of more crimes, than she could imagine, and was hiding out from a murder charge, when they found love. From there, they engage in a self described "Bonnie & Clyde" episode, leaving in their wake, many people, fighting for their lives, and one absolutely horrific, and near surgical attack, that can hardly be believed. But who did all the nasty stuff? The answer may surprise you! Along the way, we find out that Arkansas is serious about their steaks, that the person who holds the bloody knife, may be your eviscerating suspect, and that murderers should NEVER have theme songs!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Magnolia, Arkansas, a self-described Bonnie and Clyde pull off a daring escapade, leaving a terrifying, bloody, and almost surgical scene in their wake. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks, one and all, for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder. They've been crazy lately, and this week, no different. It's just wild. This is one of those episodes where there's so many points in it where you're just like, wait a second's we got to rewind it's just it's absolutely insane can't wait to tell you the story quickly first before we get

to that first of all your reviews thank you very helpful whatever app you're listening on whatever platform if it's possible to leave a review five stars would be lovely for you for your boys here fantastic for doing it thank you for doing that head for doing that. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. Tickets available. Still a few tickets left for Pittsburgh on April 8th

and Columbus, Ohio on April 9th there. Good-sized theaters. A couple tickets left. Very few. Figure it out. Very few. I know Columbus

is just about done, so be careful on that one. So get your tickets right now for that and the whole damn tour is out there. So get your tickets right now for that and the whole damn tour is out there. So get your tickets for those. Get your merch there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get

all of your bonus stuff. We have so much bonus stuff on there. There's like 150 episodes you get access to immediately for that. Anybody, $5 or above, you're going to get access to all the Small Town Murder bonus episodes and even all the Crime and Sports bonus episodes

which usually the bonus episodes, everybody, they cross over very well for everybody. Yeah, there's something for everybody. There's something for everybody. Enjoy those. This week what we're going to have for Crime and Sports, we are going to have one of the best April Fool's jokes ever that I've ever heard

of since it's going to be right after april fools day uh it's the sid finch hoax where uh sports illustrated and the new york mets and george plimpton the writer all conspired to put out this story of a man who throws like 130 miles an hour 168 168 168. I saw a tweet about it. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Lives in the, you know, it's crazy stuff. Like pulled him out of the mountains. Wears one shoe. Only wears one shoe. This crazy story with enough detail to where people completely bought it and it was the hottest thing in sports and people were like, holy shit.

This is a, it's hilarious. We'll check that out. And then small town murder. I guess you could call this a hoax, a very disturbing hoax. We're going to talk about Diane Downs. And if you don't know who she is, she is maybe the biggest liar who's ever existed. Like the most, it's insane. She's, her story is nuts.

She shot her kids and herself and tried to make it out like she was the hero who was saving her kids from some random assailant when not even close to what happened. And we'll talk about all of her interviews and how much she just lies with a smile on her face. It's crazy. Insane story. Despite this show, it's fascinating how much people want you to believe that happens all the time. I know, man. So anyway, there it is patreon.com slash crime and sports

get that there and you're going to get a shout out at the end of the show because god damn it we appreciate each and every one of you for doing that thank you for doing that and if you just want to get your shout out and have great karma you can do that at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com quick disclaimer this is a comedy show we're comedians so uh there's going to be jokes here there's also going to be horrible murder we we know how to separate those things that's how it works so it's going to be all right uh we what we don't do what we go out of our way not to do we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes.

Yeah? But we're not scumbags. That's the deal. See, that's how it works. So if that sounds good to you, we are going to, wow, hear about a wild story. If not, I don't know. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together, maybe it's not for you. Maybe.

Either way, it might be, though. That's the thing. Either way, no complaining later, because we did tell you that there are jokes. Don't go, oh, my God, there's a joke. a joke oh no you're forewarned to give it a shot warned that's it don't say a word shut the fuck up thank you exactly and that said after we've told you shut the fuck up we should also shout let's sit here let's clear the lungs and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right.

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Okay. Let's go. We are, oh boy, let's do this. Is it how easy I am to talk into something? Yeah. All right, sure. Let's do it.

Let's go. Jimmy being the story, just a guy they picked up and like, we're going to murder somebody. Okay. He didn't know anything about it beforehand. Sure. go jimmy be in this story just a guy they picked up and like we're gonna murder somebody okay he didn't know anything about it beforehand sure and then he's next thing you know we're going and jimmy was sentenced to 25 to life i just brought the beer you guys all appeals denied he's like i swear i didn't know anything about it till we got there i just thought we were going on a trip well we're going on a trip and uh yeah you'd have to be talked into this trip we're going from maine where you love i know one of your favorite places

all the way to magnolia arkansas yikes which i assume you'd probably maybe a little less want to be there let's just say i feel like there's like like a cookware made here or something we make magnolia you know fucking bacon sheets here or something. This is where the pioneer woman gets all of her cookware. It's all made in a factory. Well, they make them. We sit here and drink sweet tea. Yeah.

You know who we mean. It's in Southwest. Yeah, they is. That's one way to put it. It's in Southwest Arkansas down there. So it's down there man it is not not good if you've been to arkansas if you are a mile outside of little rock you might as well be in the middle of deliverance is what you feel like like it's like that this is two hours and 20 minutes to

little rock so little rock doesn't feel like you're all that safe to be honest it doesn't feel like a metropolis not at all you're like oh boy this is the woods could close in on us at any time it's about an hour 45 to malvern arkansas which is uh episode 238 which was the devil the devil the darkness and the cheerleader which was a crazy episode it hasn't been that long since we've been to arkansas but arkansas is one of those states like west virginia that's just it's teeming it's right there's so much there so we have to we have and this story's crazy enough to where it's like let's go back to arkansas for a minute this is in columbia county which is another one of those counties that seem to be

everywhere we did the new york episode was columbia County that we did more recently. The area code 870. Motto of this town. I got some balls here. Motto of this town, quote, discover the difference. Yeah. What? Or there's more to it, I feel like. It got rubbed off the sign.

Someone was like, well, let's make it better. The real motto is discover the difference, then run back to civilization. There's those two. Now, history of this town. Magnolia is the county seat of Columbia County, of course. And we all knew that, obviously. And it's home of Southern Arkansas University. Oh.

Don't. What are they? The porcupines? Why do you have to say Southern Arkansas? Arkansas is southern enough. Yeah. We're southern, southern Arkansas. We're the southern part of the southern around here we're the southern part of the southern part of arkansas see there's two parts of the southern part of

arkansas and uh there's the northern part which don't fucking pussies up there see this is the southern part he's up there you know the yanes, the southern part of South Arkansas, northern part. So this is, yeah, South, maybe the Porcupines. What do you think their mascot is? The mascot? The Tire Fires? The Tire Fires. So this, yeah, I don't know what the hell their goddamn mascot is. Something.

It's a barbecue. Something awful with barbecue. 50-gallon drum barbecue. Actually, it might be a giant barbecue chef because wait till we get to things to do. It's all they care about here. It's an important industrial center here. It has a lot of oil and bromine industries. The fuck is bromine?

Bromine's used for shit, obviously. Why else would they pull it out of the ground? They must use it for something. I swear I've purchased something that had to do with bromine. I don't know why. We got to finish this up, Jimmy. I got to get to the store and pick me up some bromine before they close. Otherwise, I ordered some on Amazon, but it's not going to be here for like two days.

I swear it's like fish tank shit or something like that. I swear I used it for something. That's brine or brine shrimp or whatever they are that you feed fish. I think that's what you're talking about. Those are those ones you keep in the freezer and then they like reanimate. Isn't bromine a chemical for shit like that?

I assume. I don't know what the hell they do with it, but who knows? I'm sure someone will tell us on social media. They will tell us all day long and I will eventually know everything there is to know about bromine if you're hearing this now we already know about bromine trust me unless you heard it the instant it came out we've heard we know i'm a professor

of bromine by now there you are you must be i know all about bromine. I graduated from Bromine University about an hour ago. So the city then became an agricultural, or it was an agricultural and regional cotton market. And then they discovered oil there. Oh, boy. That's what the 1938, they discovered oil there. And it was drilled by the Kerr-Linn Company, which they sound like they poison things. I'm sure. I don't know.

It's just the sound of it. No, it sounds like there's kids with, like, weird discolorations all over them that has that there. Somebody's sick. They're the cause of it. You know, I don't know why. I'm not saying it's true, but it sounds like it. So the Magnolia oil field was a big discovery for this city here. It was the largest producing oil field in

volume during the early years of world war ii so it came it kind of came right at the right time and it was big and big help in the war effort to have a big luck extra oh yeah that's a lot of luck we we had a lot of luck there we needed it so everything had to line up right to beat hitler i guess so so yeah very tough foe then of course though um if you don't take care of that you have problems in march 2013 more than 5 000 barrels of oil leaked from a lion oil and trading a lion oil trading and transportation storage tank in magnolia with some flowing into the bayou. So, good job. Yikes. Let's destroy that completely. Let's destroy the local ecosystem here totally.

There is one famous person from Magnolia. It's Charlene Harris, who wrote the True Blood books, like the vampire. Yeah, the vampires on, what is that, like HBO or Showtime? Showtime, I think. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. That was, what's her name, that dated Sethh mcfarland right that was in that right anna paquin oh that's

not anna paquin in that never mind forget it okay moving on it's a douche coup douche coup i'm sure eliza worst name ever to fucking act you can pick any name you want when you start acting by the way you can you go by like you just pick your middle name they're like you want to have douche in there really okay well it's fine okay now she wants she's sticking with douche she said parents won't let her change it that's what we're gonna run it it's a family name she's running with it imagine if that wasn't her name she picked that to stand out yeah so reviews of this town uh five stars here five stars quote uh it is changing to become a charming town in southern arkansas diverse vibrant population

from around the world coming to study and teach at southern arkansas university many activities are there horse and mule riding yeah mule riding is an activity. Listen, sometimes you just got to get on a wild animal. Of any kind. Fuck what it is. Horse, mule, big dogs, a couple people got it. A guy with a great name. I don't give a shit. You can jump right on that thing.

Mule riding seems like something you'd have to do out of necessity. Like, we're stuck here and the only way out of this canyon is on this mule. Like, that seems like the only way. But anyway, outdoor theater, sightseeing, cycling, and so much more. way out of this canyon is on this mule like that seems like the only way but uh anyway outdoor theater sightseeing cycling and so much more new exciting establishments are under development sponsored by the founder of walmart oh great oh yeah and other from here and other high tech and cloud-based corporations the schools are going through major assessments to raise the quality and safety this is this person is advertising this town.

Three stars. It's a little bit different here. It is scary as a female to take a late night stroll. Well, that's a little less glowing there. It doesn't seem like a great place then. That sounds scary. Four stars for this one. Great place to live, exclamation point.

Yeah. Great banks, exclamation point. Small to live! Exclamation point. Great banks! Exclamation point. Small town feel! Exclamation point. Safe environment! Exclamation point. Very friendly! Jimmy? During the day. Exclamation point. There you go. Hometown!

Exclamation point. Buffet. And then the closer. Great place to raise a family! Exclamation point. There you go. You got it. So this person is jacked. Yeah.

Let's see here. One star. The night scene is nonexistent. And we only recently started selling alcohol in the stores. Well, yeah, that sounds depressing. Was it a dry county? Dry county. Probably.

Yeah. They just finally cracked. Population of this town, 11,433. But it is, because it's a college town and there's more female college students than male. It is 56% female, 43% male. So if you're a young man, you know, that's not a bad deal here. And now they've got booze. And now there's booze.

Arkansas is crazy, too, that they have like, fuck, man, it is insane how many counties they have. Oh, it's so many. They had to break off for that reason, probably. They hate each other so much. They're like, you like that? Well, my house is my own county now. Absolutely. If we didn't have the goddamn North to hate, I'll tell you what, I'd hate you a lot more.

They just cannot get along and agree on fucking anything no they like to fight in arkansas they're they're a scrappy people in arkansas yeah median age 27.2 that's a lot of college students there um 41 married which is high for a young population still uh 25 are single children, which is way higher than the national average. The race of this town, it's split pretty evenly here. 50.1% white, 42% black, 2.3% Asian, 2.3% Hispanic. So it's a lot for a southern town. It seems like southern towns are either all white or black or half white, half black. There's no other mixture of how they could be completely wrong.

Just the towns we've done. That's the breakdowns there. So religion in this town, 52 and a half percent religious. And obviously, without a doubt, Baptist is the number one religion. Twenty five. Twenty five percent of the people here are Baptist. Baptists are, as we know, the Catholics of the South there. 0.0% Jewish, though. That's not going on at all here, which it's a college. You assume like it would attract just diversity a little bit.

You know what I mean? But I guess not. So the politics here in this county, Columbia County, 33% Democrat in the last election, 64% Republican, 3.5% Independent. Wow. That's super high. That's high for the last election. It is. Unemployment rate here is about the national average, but the median household income is pretty low.

It's a college town, so I guess you can put some of the kids in there. Recent graduates, that sort of thing. median walmart yeah i don't know i'm sure there's a walmart somewhere median household income here 34 461 which is very low it's usually you know over 54 000 in the rest of the country cost of living 100 is regular average uh here cost of living is 73 housing is low median home cost here 103 400 bucks incredibly affordable that is incredibly affordable and if you would like to afford yourself a little bit arkansas we have for you everyone the magnolia arkansas real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 676 bucks which not bad in a college town too you need a lot of rentals so that's good i found here a three bedroom one bath 200 or 12 12 1260 square foot house.

Three bedrooms and 12,000 square feet? Jesus Christ. One bath? One bathroom and you gotta find it. Imagine having to piss and having to find the bathroom in a 12,000 square foot house. Where is it? Please tell me! I'm gonna piss. I found

your goddamn washing machine and I'm gonna use that, okay? I think I found the laundry room. I feel like a mom from that Alzheimer's movie every day. Yeah, just what's happening? I'm going to piss my pants. Oh, it's terrible. It's a weird-shaped house. It looks like a stash house.

The way the shading is in the front, it looks like a stash house or where someone would keep women hostage, like multiple women tied up in a room. There's a lot of dolls everywhere, which is creepy. Something bad happened there. Ariel Castro vibe. I'm getting a lot of Castro vibes. $59,000 for that. My Christ, that's so cheap.

That's cheap. Here's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,664-square-foot house. Kind of your average family home. It's a nice little house. foot house. So kind of your average family home. It's a nice little house. Nice house. Looks like the kitchen has been redone recently. But there's some things that could use some updating. I don't know.

It's a weird house. It's fine, though. It's a fine house. If you have a couple of kids, it's perfect. $129,000 for that, though. So pretty cheap. Not bad. That I found here.

All right. You're doing great. You're a Walton. you're a walton you're you're a walton or you struck your dread clamp it and you had struck the oil here uh five bedroom four bath 4595 square feet oh my big old house real southern looking big white columns outside it's like a wannabe plantation house. How's the porch? That's what it looks like. Very nice porch. Elaborate staircase, you know, for coming down in your, like, weird dress. A ball gown.

Yeah, some weird southern gown. Yeah, some weird southern, like, Civil War ball you're going to. In the 1860s, not now, that's what I'm saying. Looks like a little tired. A little updating could use. But at one point you could tell this was stately. $349,900. For almost 5,000 square feet of house?

Which is very cheap for that. Holy shit. Think about that. What's that house cost in Phoenix, Jimmy? Oh, Mike, that's easily $2 million. Easily, right? Yeah, but the difference is here you have to live in southwestern Arkansas. Yeah, where they will shove a tornado up your ass in August.

Absolutely. No problem. Things to do in this town. Here it is. The Magnolia Blossom Festival and World Championship Steak Cook-Off. Oh, fuck yeah. What kind of steak? I'm fucking in.

I don't give a fuck. If it's meat and you grilled it i'll give it a shot put it that way taste it i'll do it i know how we are we're like make a weird face yeah what do you got over there it is one don't make me make a weird face apparently just cook it correctly this is one of the biggest events in all of arkansas really oh yeah the highlight of the film this is one of the biggest events in all of arkansas really oh yeah the highlight of the film this is reading right off the website the highlight of the festival is of course the cook-off where more than 4 000 ribeye steaks are grilled it's good meat yeah we're

talking holy shit jimmy's pause there was his face he went like he made like the oh my god and words couldn't come out. I can't believe it's something I want. I want that. The winner gets the Governor's Cup trophy and $2,000. Two grand. Two grand for cooking a steak well. Each year, there are over 3,000 steaks cooked on the

square here in Magnolia, Arkansas. Visitors cannot imagine the smell in the air when more than 80 grills of all shapes and sizes begin the cook-off. Gotta be a couple of sawed-off shopping carts and an oil drum in there. There's some interesting ones, yeah.

I'm sure there is. Be sure to get your tickets early because they will go fast. Well, it's steak. Steak tickets are available from Magnolia Chamber Office. Steak tickets, Farmers Bank, Bancorp, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Join friends and family and share the flavor of the festival for an unforgettable experience. All right.

Here. Let's see. What's that steak in this competition? It says. Oh, you bastards. And it's spelled like the meat. You know it. Yeah.

It says here you get. This is conflicting overall winner first place gets the governor's trophy and four thousand dollars in prize money which is a lot first runner up gets it yeah they get a trophy in 2000 and then it goes 1250 every one you get i'm sure you know a trophy that gets smaller. Yeah, going down in scale. $750, you get after that. Fourth runner-up gets $500.

So there you go. You get that. First through fifth place. There's also an award for rig construction. I don't know if that's like the oddest grill setup they could find or something. What I did is I had a 77 Ford pickup, right? And i took the bed out of it and just filled it with coals and poked a couple holes in the bottom i got me a grill and i won a trophy and five hundred dollars for best rig construction you want to bet somebody has barbecued out of a bathtub uh oh yeah there's been a wheelbarrow

i can't wait to see i want to see see them. I do, too, actually. I really want to see what's going on. I really do. They also have the Blossom Festival Parade and, of course, the Magnolia Blossom Festival Pageant, of course. Oh, God. They probably crowned some poor teenage girl Miss Blossom Festival. Yeah.

Somebody wore a meat dress. Somebody had like a meat. It's a sash. It's a meat sash. It's a regular dress, but the sash is made of tenderloins all sewn together so uh they have the uh what else the people's bank treasure hunt the fishing tournament yeah wow they have like a cornhole game of some kind here all sorts of shit going on i don't know whatever they have the largest grill in the world guinness book of world records here as well uh do they say what it is giant no no this guy made a grill he made it out it's like half an airplane

or some shit what yeah it's a giant fucking grill here um yeah it's from uh where is this here i'm sorry there's they're talking about some of the cooks dress up there's groups that sing as they cook like they try to make a whole show out of it you know they have to try to get some sort of like social media buzz on themselves here look at that into their steak too that'll do it as well here yeah so anyway uh they had one that was over 70 feet long by the way the barbecue grill the barbecue grill and then somebody else made a bigger one and then this guy made an even bigger one so and then you got a fuselage in there that's what they have one is literally like half an airplane it's like you just sliced an airplane in half and threw some steaks in there so a crime rate in this town well we're interested

in obviously the property crime is a little bit high it's about 50 percent high which is pretty normal for a college town if you know yeah look at tempe you want to leave your car unlocked there oh never never no it's a terrible place uh violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is a little bit high maybe 15 20 percent high so not quite as bad which is uh i think you're always going to get a little more with college towns though because you're going to going to have the obvious sexual assaults are going to be higher. Yeah. That's fighting.

That's also assaults like that. Drunken people. You get a guy that's fueled up on steak and beer. That's an angry man. Oh, my God. He's got so. I ate steak out of an airplane. Do you understand me?

And I'm not in a bed. I'm so mad. I'm going to fight you. God damn it. So that said, let's talk about a murder that happened here. What do you say, Jimmy? Let's get into this. To do this, we need to go all the way back to my favorite murder era ever.

Oh, I love it so much. You can almost hear the Bee Gees playing in the background. Oh, those 70s. 1977, baby. Let's do it. 77, it's a beautiful time. And let's talk about a couple of people here. Can I?

And this case is one of those cases where you look at it as a whole, and it's just, there are so many high points in this case, we'll say. And by high points, I mean terrible things for the most part, obviously. Low points. Low points, but where you're just like, are you fucking kidding me? I look for cases that have are you fucking kidding me moments because why would you know? I feel like that's what you're listening for. That's what I would listen for. And this is one of those cases that is just bonkers.

Let's get into this. We'll talk about a young lady first. OK, let's talk about a young lady who is 22 years old in 1977. The world is her oyster. And wait till you hear her. The world is her oyster. She's doing well for herself here. She is originally from Bradley, Arkansas.

That's where she's from. I'm sure that's a lovely, lovely metropolis just teeming with opportunity, I'm sure. Bradley,ansas in the 70s especially so born in 55 too so it was like americana time oh absolutely yeah she's she's from there so at the um she's does she's doing well for herself she is there's 14 children in her family she's one of 14 which that's she came up you know pretty pretty rough you know what i mean pretty poor honestly it's which order was she was she a baby she's somewhere in the middle there somewhere in the middle so i don't know or some shit fucking 11th or something so it's like i don't know she's easily forgotten about yeah they just call her 11

like she's stranger things just to make it easier where's 11 at what the hell who gives a shit what her name is she's the 11th goddamn kid we've had too many mom screamed 11 like uh the mom in home alone yeah kevin 11 10 11 12 Get your asses in here now. I know your names, God damn it. I don't give a shit about them. Get in the God damn house. She's been lost before. She's been lost a little bit. Yeah, you'd lose that.

But outside of Utah, there aren't a lot of people that have 14 children that have a lot of money. That's the thing. It's not a thing. But here, 14 kids, and she's the only one out of 14 to attend college so she's got to have something if you're the only one out of 14 to attend college you got to have some sort of brain some sort of she's she's trying you know what i mean so good for her she's doing some shit here she goes to school uh at southern arkansas university there we talked about the the fighting porcupines as we know of the i think that's what the hell they are

but they uh she goes for psychology actually and she's doing very very well fact, by the end of school in May of 1977, when that school year finishes, that semester, she only lacks nine hours to graduate. She needs nine credit hours. So she is right there. You know what I mean? Right at the tip to graduate. So obviously she's going to graduate next year. Yep. All should be well.

Right? It should be so easy. I mean, the world is your oyster right now you're gonna do something yeah because in the 70s if you had a college degree in the 70s oh my you were just like you'd get you know you could get an entry-level job at any company you want making a good living wage just because you had a college degree that's how it was you could you could be middle management and start there yeah now they're like hmm like, hmm, I don't know. The milk frother is pretty complicated. I know you have a master's degree, but I don't know.

So what she does, though, is she has a magical moment happen here right after school stops. Right around May, she has a magical, magical, magical moment where she meets a man. Oh, boy. She meets a man, and I say a man because he's not a young man. I'd call her a young woman. He is not a young man. He's 41 years old.

All right. She meets him, so you know that's going to go well right away. I'm sure everything's put together. Yeah, are you ready to go with a fucking 22 year old sound about right for you right now i can't do that jesus christ no no and that's no offense to a 22 year old but we it's just not you got hope and shit like that yeah while you talked i would just stare at you and just be like with my eyes slowly my eyebrows slowly crunching up going i don't i don't understand anything you just said first of all and

you have a lot of hope in there don't you i see i see like rainbows going off in here this is wild you have a lot of hope you said i gaslight you i don't know what that means. Yeah, I don't think you do either. I don't think you know that that's from a play and what that actually was going on in the play, which is a completely different thing than you think I lied to you three weeks ago about what I was watching on TV. I don't think that's gaslighting. It doesn't coincide. think that's gaslighting it doesn't coincide no so um anyway they're uh they're they hook up here and um but yeah and who the hell and we're making fun of that side of it but in reality she's 22 what the hell does she want with this guy he's not like a together this isn't like a

together guy you know what i mean like oh no no this isn't like an investment banker and he's he came to like do like a a speech at the school and she asked him more questions and they had some coffee and it's shit in common no no no no no that's not anything like this we'll talk about who he is he is not like that at all it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence,

and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to

go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

So anyway, they meet and here we go. His past, let's discuss. In 1965, here's an article from California in 1965, where it says police today characterized Warren E. Sumlinlin and that's his name warren e sumlin uh they characterized him as a dr jekyll mr hyde bandit after 10 hold-up victims recently identified him in lineups oh my god he's near 30 at that point he's 29 he's a strong-arm robber he took more than 3300 and shot three people in this recent rampage. Oh, he just shoots people indiscriminately. That's the other thing. He's not just robbing people. It's at gunpoint, and he will shoot your ass.

Some girls like danger, man. He, it says, continues to say, this is at 29 years old, quote, remember, this is from 65, quote, Sumlin, unemployed with no permanent address. A state prisoner on parole with a criminal record dating back 13 years. That's 16. Yeah. Was arrested at a friend's home in Oakland.

Victims identified him in a lineup last night as the gunman in a series of robberies of liquor stores pharmacies and service stations. This guy is fucking wild. of robberies of liquor stores, pharmacies, and service stations. Shit. This guy is fucking wild. And that was just 12 years ago. That was 12 years earlier. And they're saying that they also said they're charging him with assault with a deadly weapon, robbery to assault with intent to commit murder, because he just shot people in the chest indiscriminately like a goddamn lunatic. Did anybody die?

And none of those people ended up dying. They all lived. And then he also is accused of strong arm robbery in Oakland at that time. And another case that they haven't identified him yet. But it sounds like him. So he relocated to Arkansas to change his life and get better. No, no. He's a 22-year-old.

Hold on. He's not done yet, Jimmy. Oh, no! That's just 1965. There's more. What do you think? He's cleaning himself up. He got out of jail.

He decided to enroll in Southern Arkansas University. He got himself a fighting porcupine sweatshirt, and he carries his books under his arm. It was mistaken identity. I'm going to show them. I'm going to get a lawyer degree and defend the innocent i'm gonna i'm gonna get a lawyer degree that's some shit i'd say that's perfect i'm gonna get a lawyer degree and then chris shenner said sure honey you should get after it you should do that

right after i shake this lunatic yeah and take another one yeah yeah let's do that that's a good history there always juggle the crazy it's gonna work out a lot of history of good relationships for both of them i think it it's going to work out. Very stable. If those two kids can't make it, Jimmy, I don't know who can. I'm going to start questioning my own marriage if they can't make it. This world, James. It's nuts. No one has had more long-lasting, steady relationships. Proven.

Proven than those two. So let's fast forward a little. I assume he went to prison for a few years at least. You'd think this today, if we're talking about him in 77, he just got out, right? No, no, no. Because in 74 he was out. And this is, he had a record going back to when he was 16. So God knows what the hell.

Back in the day, they had very harsh penalties for certain things, but then certain things were like, it's almost like they just didn't think that people would keep doing it. Well, at least they had that one out of their system. Yeah. No one's going to rob banks like five times, right? No, they'll stop after a while. What do you think? Baby Phase Nelson? Yeah.

They had to make for continuing things to have an escalation for if you keep robbing people at gunpoint. At some point, the penalties have to get more. That's kind of dangerous, especially if you're shooting some of these people. It's not like you were, you know, I came up with a cap gun to scare somebody. He's firing slugs into people. He made a threat and made good on it. Yeah, I will shoot you. Bang.

Now give me your money. This is crazy. So 1974, he's still in California. Yeah. Doing will shoot you. Bang. Now give me your money. This is crazy. So 1974, he's still in California. Yeah. Doing his thing there. He didn't have a good day. Let's just say that. Had a bad day.

He's in Oakland. And this is a day just littered with failure if you're an armed robber. Sometimes you wake up as a comedian. Sometimes you get up. If we go on you know sometimes the crowd's amazing and we feel great about it and we feel like we did well and sometimes it's sometimes you feel like you know i feel like i could have been five percent better or something you know what i mean was a little off apparently with armed robbery it's very similar i didn't realize that. Sticky situation. Little sticky situation. About 3 p.m. one day, a man walked into the South Berkeley Pharmacy at 3300 Adeline Street and demanded money.

Okay. Give me all your money. Yeah. Here's my gun, right? So the manager, a guy named Walton Rogers, this is a balls fucking move, right? He hands him a $5 bill. That's what I got. There you go.

Spent it all in one place, sir. There had to be a pause there when he handed it to him. He had to take it and be like, wait a second. Like, this is money, but. I'm risking going to jail. Not for this. More, please. You know I want more than this.

So he did. He demanded more money money um he said give me more money this is bullshit while waving the five dollar bill around literally he had in his hand he goes no i want more money and he's shaking it around so the manager several options obviously he can give more money he can run away with several options here he chooses a route i would have never even thought of what is that grabs the money back out of his hand ungrateful fuck if you don't want that then fine yeah was this an abe lincoln you're goddamn right it was it was is what it is it's anymore. And then it's so threatening. The manager is so aggressively takes it and goes after him that he runs out of the store.

The robber runs out of the store. He runs away from him. Oh, the heartbreak. That is a terrible, terrible attempted robbery. The guy, actually, it's actually even you robbed him then he robbed you and then chased you away so you really got the least of that exchange you got fucked up in that one he didn't take the robbery serious at all he was like no i won't call the cops go get yourself some lunch is this all you got well then fuck you yeah oh yeah oh yeah

then he runs after him and the guy and he he must have seemed so serious and threatening that it scared an armed person into running away from him like oh god he means business that's bad i've shot three people none of them died if i don't kill this guy, he will beat my ass, I feel like. Look at that look on his face. Which also brings the question of, could anybody just walk in and say, give me money, and he'll give you $5? Did he have like a five in the side of the register that was the handout? This is a robbery money. Best of luck.

Even a robbery, just a handout. If you go in and you got any money, he's just got a five for whoever. But you have to take that five. That's the rule. That's all you get. I'm calling the money, he's just got a five for whoever. You have to take that five. That's the rule. That's all you get. I'm calling the cops and Jason, you're out of here. If you ask for more, you get a beating. I'm generous to a point.

It's got to be a big fucking guy, right? It's got to be huge. I feel like he's Italian either way. I feel like he's an Italian guy. More intimidating as fuck one way or another. You ungrateful fucking, you son of a bitch kicking his ass in the street. You fucking disgracian. I'm trying to be nice to you.

I try to be nice. This is what I get. While he's kicking someone else. This is what I get for it. Bang. You embarrass me in front of my employees. God damn it. While he's killing someone.

So, anyway uh one of the other pharmacists joins in the chase too i guess once once it's happening so witnesses by the way he doesn't even he's parked like a car length in front of the store like out on the curb he's not even around the corner just right there no getaway driver he just hops in his car fires it up puts it in drive and pulls away while several people write his license plate number it takes a second to do that you know this isn't a modern day like a push button you had to get the key in yeah make sure you put it in the right way because it didn't have two ridges. It only had the ridges on the top. God damn it. Fucking hell. Fuck. Pain in my ass.

So the police are now looking for this car. And while they're looking for the car, they must have missed it about an hour later because across the street pretty much within a block of this place, the South Berkeley branch of the Wells Fargo Bank was open as well this is um you know after four o'clock p.m so getting to the end of the day and a guy fitting the same description as the guy who went into the seems like a bad time to rob a bank they've either got the most money they're gonna have or the least money they're gonna have if or the least money they're going to have at the end of the day. Yeah, they just got done putting it all away in a safe place. Or just giving it all out throughout the day. Or giving it out or putting it in a truck or anything they've taken in.

One way or another, it seems like a bad time to rob a bank at the end of the day. When is a good time to rob a bank? Is it? That's the question. I said, when is a good time to rob a bank? That's the question. I would guess at the beginning of the day, right? In the morning, you think?

That's when they have the most money right i think everybody's a little they're a little more open to in the morning to maybe something weird happening so i think everyone might by the end of the day you're like oh fuck you if you come into rob so bro it's 4 30 you know i'm gonna have to stay no no you're not messing my night up not today reports i'm out of here asshole you know and then you snatch the money back and chase them out of the store it's probably the best time to rob them at like midnight because everybody the businesses do their night drop you know what i mean yeah they just drop it at the bank but then you have to like you have to like break then you need like an oceans 11 team of somebody who can cut through a wall and all that the night drop bag it's much easier to just walk

in and say give me your money and then they hand it to you i would assume i'd figure at the morning though they they're they have all the night drop shit and they're putting that away so it's like at lunch the truck probably picks it up by the end of the day they've given all the money out so you're saying it's kind of like if you if it was like 1998 and you wanted a movie, a blockbuster video, if you go in the morning while they're empty in the bin. That's it. Is that Independence Day? Give me that.

No, no, no. Give me that. Welcome to Earth, motherfucker. Give me it. Is that high fidelity? Yeah, give me that too. What is that? That's what it is.

It's got to be. Come on. Whatever 90s movies you can, late 90s. It's got to be morning. I think you're right, you can, late 90s. It's got to be morning. I think you're right, actually. I'm going to go with you on this one. So this bandit here, he's a bad robber. He's demanded, all he said was, all your 20s.

None of these fives, goddammit. All your 20s, right? And their hundreds are more recognizable so whatever uh the teller and this is a he didn't even this isn't a question you expect so the teller said i beg your pardon before i hit the alarm button let me make sure you're actually robbing the place and you didn't have like a withdrawal slip in your hand that you're about to put on the fucking counter go i want this in 20s i said you know oh i'm sorry sir here you go i need your pin number first sir so he stood there for a second rather than answering stood there for a second looked around then turned and ran out of

the bank just ran away bye that wasn't in the script that's shit you're just supposed to put it on the counter then i take it and run this is everybody throwing fucking curveballs in berkeley she said i beg your pardon and he went line do i just repeat i'm blank i don't know all my all your just say it again okay all your 20s i'm not an improv guy i'm a i'm theatrical i'm a theatrically true i'm not an improv i stick to the script that's all i got that's all i got man so he takes off he's gone um he's described as uh in his late 20s a black male late 20s medium build six feet tall wearing sunglasses and an apple hat which i didn't know what an apple hat was i was like is he prescient as shit and he was just like i'm investing in this

new company that's going to come out in a few years uh but no it's like a it's kind of like it's like a cangle but like remember the cangles that are like a little floppier though they kind of have like seams in them oh like yeah you know what i mean like one of those hats like a 70s and the the the top clips to the bill i think it does yeah it's got that kind of bill where it would it's close enough i don't know if it actually has the snap on there or not but it's it's it's got no it's a little floppier but that's i guess they called that an apple hat in 1974 so um yeah so the officer here, this one officer was the first on the scene, and they just traced his license plate number because he just drove his car home and parked it like a fucking moron, obviously. So they go ahead and they pick up him, Warren Sumlin, and they pick up his friend James Posey Jr. as well.

Yeah. They're just sitting in the apartment. They knock on the door. Hey, how asshole click here you go your address your registration leads me right here thanks dummy so um hey nice hat that's a sweet one is that snap on the top guy so they're both held in the berkeley jail for investigation of robbery and for also parole violation because he's obviously on parole for that. So you'd imagine that's going to get him 10 years. But somehow by 1977, he's not only out of jail, but in Arkansas and wanted for murder in California as well. Murder now, straight murder, not just robbery.

So he's escalated this to murder. This is when he meets young ruth how the fuck this is when he meets ruth who's nine hours shy of getting her psychology degree and being the only one of 14 children in her family to graduate to go to never mind graduate from college with a psychology degree unbelievable Unbelievable. Going to follow her dreams. Well, what ends up happening is in the fall when the semester starts up again, she decides that she does not have enough money to go back and get her degree. So she drops out of school. With nine hours to go.

With nine hours to go and to hang out with this fucking dildo. I'd sell my eggs do something right i mean god if this i'm sure this guy's robbing people have him help you you know what i mean i don't know but instead i don't know if she wants to hang out with him he doesn't want her to do it i don't know what the deal is here or she just i don't know maybe there is no money i have no idea what it is but um she doesn't even know him as warren sumlin which is his name she knows him by an alias she knows him as warren andrews which is certainly not his name kept his first name just changed the last changed the last name because you know he's wanted for murder in

another state so but that's that's how little she knows about him. She doesn't know his name. Like that's this is fucking crazy. So he ends up being found in Arkansas on drug charges. Obviously, I think also to some burglary. I think it was burglary and possession of some drugs. So he's arrested and put in jail in August of 1977. So you got to be like, that's's a relief if you're like her family like yeah finally good he's in jail he's waiting for extradition to california which is a long way away so they figure out his last name yeah well yeah once he's he's wanted that ends up happening but

when he gets arrested it's like oh boy okay good he's in jail you know good she's gonna maybe she'll get back to you know her path that she was on again boy did you dodge a bullet girl he was a murderer jesus yeah that guy was a goddamn murder which i guess she said that told her family also she didn't know that he was wanted for murder in california she just thought he was a charming guy i guess i guess you'd have to be real charming to be 41 and wanted in another state every murder charges and still get a it still get not only a 22 year old young woman to want to be with you but a 22 year old young woman who's about to graduate with a psychology degree so she should you know what i mean like she's not dumb she's a smart young lady

like this is what the fuck man you think their training too would uh he would say something as a terrible man that would tip her off to him having some issues well maybe that's also it too some people do get into psychology because they're interested in this stuff and they might well she might want to fix somebody and boy does this guy need some fucking fixing i would say he has been yeah it's been 25 years of of crime that's all he's been doing for his whole life so since he was a teenager so anyway uh he's in jail in august of 1977 waiting the outcome of the extradition proceedings initiated by california on a first degree murder charge so this is this is bad man not good so like i said she should go back to school in the fall

let's you know let's let's calm it all down yeah um so on october 2nd 1977 she marries him while he's in the columbia county jail that's just the maybe possibly the worst is this i can you are you watching this like it's love After Lockup right now? Yeah. Because that's all I'm doing. She really wants to fix him. I'm picturing the talking head with her going, we got married last week because we were together and we were planning on it probably when he went in.

And so now I'm figuring, I said, we got to get married, I think. It's just- I am, the new season season starting and i am the most worried about that chase i want him out of that girl's house so fast i'm so so scared there's something bubbling there boy right oh boy does he exhibit some predatory behavior some i don't like him immediately like just always being all over these kids like yeah like don't touch those kids yet you don't know those fucking kids like worse worse over he he claims he had a bunch of women around and he picks her which is supposed to make her feel good yeah which to me goes oh my god why because she has a dead husband and you and you can easily slide in there you know she's gonna trust you

exactly i figured you were the one i could con the easiest. Right. And she doesn't understand. That's what he just said. Yeah. No, she doesn't get that at all because she's so clouded. I'm going to move into your house and take down your dead husband's pictures. No, no. He's like, it's not even in the kids room or anything. It's like, you know, right here.

Well, yeah, he's dead. And there's pictures of him with the kids. So, you know, it's good. Calm down. Not yet, sir. I think when you enter a relationship like that, you have to realize that's probably going to be a thing you know and if you're not okay with that then you shouldn't be in that relationship certainly should have picked a different girl but it's because he you had a list of them from your what you said that's gonna end

terrible oh it's gonna end that might be the worst pad yeah but that one might end the worst of all of them that harry kid is like, I just want to run away. That's what he told his friend. I see her and I just want to run. I'm like, this is going to work out great. Walking down the street with a bottle of booze that I'm sure is against his parole. I would imagine so. Open container.

I just want to smoke weed and drink. I'm sure you do. Yeah. So do I. But, you know. I get it. Thanks. But you have problems. More sympathetic. Take care so do I, but, you know. I get it. Thanks. But you have problems.

More sympathetic. You got to take care of it. I could not be, sir, but still. That's what this is. It's volatile and not healthy by any stretch, and I think she wants to fix him. I think that's got to be it, right? It has to be, but, I mean, he's going to end up in California. You think she'll follow him there?

What do you think the story's going to happen? When he gets extradited? Well, let's see here. She is allowed, though, because it's like a small county jail, and they just got married, and she's like a nice young lady, by the way. You know, college girl, a nice young lady, that they allow her generous visiting privileges with him, with Warren, by the jailers. By the way, both of the jailers who allowed this were both fired later for their laxness. That's how lax it was. It wasn't like, well, we let her stay an extra half hour and it ain't hurt nothing.

How inappropriate they realize this is. Yeah. Like I said, this isn't, you know, well, they're just sitting in there. Give them an extra half hour. Who cares? Like this is yeah like i said this isn't you know well they're just sitting in there give them an extra half hour who cares like this is way different like they're allowing love no it's not that guy's 41 this is not young love that guy should get a colonoscopy soon this isn't young love he's a year late not young young love. So, obviously, they talk a lot when they're in there and all that sort of thing. Because, like, you know, what do you do, like, in that situation? You're young.

You're 22. You're a newlywed. You're a newlywed. Your husband may be in jail for the rest of his life now. What do you do with that, you know? You gotta taste that while you can. You break his ass out, Jimmy. That's what you do oh no you break his ass out of jail that was what else would you do i mean obviously what else would you yeah she came she's like hi sweetheart how you doing

ah let's break y'all out of jail that sounds like fun do i re-enroll i'll tell you what i was wondering should i re-enroll in school this morning or break my murderous husband out of jail i don't know what to do maybe i'll do one then the other yeah the counselor's office is closed right now so i'll just back the fort up to the bars real quick no problem come on here tie a rope to them put it in s gear honey put it there you go slow so she says let's do it which yeah this is like the best episode of love after lockup ever imagine in the talking head and she's like so there's only one thing i could do i'm gonna break his ass out and they show her planning it that'd be a great episode i would watch that repeatedly the producers are clearly not stopping anything illegal today it is crazy how how much

they just let them go they let them punch each other let them do everything well we'll get in there when medical attention is required other than that i feel like they're taking a real news real documentary news gathering approach to it. Like, well, we don't want to disturb the subjects and affect the story. That's what we're just we're just here to watch. No, you're not. This would be happening whether we were here or not. Just replies on the wall.

There's no way they're not instigating this shit. Yeah. That guy's showing off because he's on TV. That's what's going on now. And now that girl has to fuck that guy that just got knocked out. That relationship's over. That has to be over, yeah. You can't fuck a guy that got knocked out defending you, right?

Well, especially in that way, just on TV. It wasn't like somebody attacked him. He was like, hey, little guy. Just poking your chin out to him. You can't do that if you don't watch love after lockup we apologize for the last little while you should watch love after lockup it's it's that intriguing where it's unbelievable it's it's incredible so she is going to break him out of jail so they discuss it well during these visits they discuss they're discussing

how do we do this i mean it's it's a little j there's only like one guy sitting there at a time i picture him leaning back with his feet on the desk and his hat over his face like snoring with his key ring dangling you could get it with a broom off the nail you know she's just watching as she puts the rope through the bars belly rise hold on she's like stopping with the rope halfway through knocks his little garbage can and he goes

and then he goes stay sleeping alright okay feed it feed it feed it come on so no they're like well how can we do this well maybe um she's like i could get you in a gun maybe i could sneak you in a gun they're pretty lax and they're not going to search this young lady all the time that well so maybe i could sneak you in a gun uh or maybe like i could force him to let you out And that's why you could do it like that way.

It's easier. Well, I don't know how we're going to do it. Blow him. You run when his eyes close. That's how it is. And then, yeah, I'll toss you the keys. That's how. What is happening?

This is the this is the the thoughts of the plans that they're trying to put together here. So then they're like, well, we don't have a car. How the fuck are we going to get out? Like we need an escape. We can't like, you know, run through the woods for the next 200 miles i'm now wanted in two states so this is this is bad stuff so what they do is they decide she says well i know a guy with a car yeah and he says or he says we know that guy with the car why don't you get his car and you will use it for an escape and they're like okay

well you know how the hell do we do that and she he's like get him good and drunk he'll drink get him good and drunk and then tell him you're driving and then drop him off you know tell him you're gonna run to the store he'll fall asleep and then take his car and break me out of fucking jail that's you know whatever use imagination. Again, the tracking of license plates isn't a real thought with this guy. He's just like. It's wild. Once you're in the car, it's invisible, see? Yeah.

It's pretty amazing. It's like Wonder Woman's jet. It's just, it ain't even there. He's treating jail like it's children's rules. Like you just, you get your feet on the outside and they can't touch you no more. I'm on home base. They're treating jail like a cartoon treats them in the Old West. That's like a Bugs Bunny cartoon set in the Old West.

That's the jail that we're in right now, I feel like. There's a dog sleeping on the floor. The whole thing. It's like Squid Game. You don't just beat the rules and then you're just free. This is so weird. So while they're discussing this by the way this isn't a secret they're not this isn't they're just they're openly discussing this it's a tiny jail

with like you know there's a bunch of cells but it's a small jail everybody hears them talking about it it's overheard by many people several other inmates and all this type of shit um so it's you know it's not a secret and the problem with jail is is that if you're planning an escape from jail and other people hear you you either have to now help them be in your plan or else they're going to tell on you for their own gain yeah there's no or you have to stab them in the throat those are your options when that happens you know in the car too yeah this car is getting that happens. Or come in the car, too. Yeah.

This car is getting real crowded real fast. I've watched a lot of Oz. Or you can stab them with an AIDS needle, I believe, is also an option from Oz, I think. Other than that, I don't know what else to do. Wait. You just wait. And you go like, revenge is a dish best served cold, my friend. So anyway, they're, Jesus Christ, they're figuring this out how do we do this um they discuss all the different options and they discussed it in front of people so ruth they

decide it's best if ruth either way ruth's gonna have to get a gun yeah because i can't get one in here you're gonna either have to yeah and a car've got to get all the supplies. I'm stuck in here. You've got to get everything. I'd do it. So I would, but obviously I'm in here. So she's supposed to get the gun and either give it to him or whatever, use it herself to get the jailer to open the thing. So they decide they're going to get this gun. And then they're like, okay, what about this car?

How are we going to do this car? So they hone in on J.Y. Cooper is his name. J.Y. Cooper. He's also 41 years old. And he has shown an interest in Ruth on several occasions. So they're like, yeah, if you go hang out with him and you say you want to get drunk and then you don't actually drink and you get him drunk and get the car from him i think we'll be straight right he's not going to call the cops on the chick he's trying to bang like you

know i'm saying he'll wait a day and a half to do that like she'll come back eventually shit i don't know so uh that's the plan they're going to do that they're like get him out somewhere where he's not near a phone and then just you know like jump in the car and drive away he. They're going to do that. They're like, get him out somewhere where he's not near a phone and then just, you know, like jump in the car and drive away. He'll be too drunk to do anything. That's the plan. One sleep, no car, not a big deal. Two sleeps, no car. That's a big deal.

So we've got at least 36 hours. Gives us a buffer, you know, of how to get out of here. So there are many witnesses. Like I said, it's they said that the escape plan was common knowledge in the jail like they don't know how the jailers didn't know about it because everyone else in the jail knew about it it wasn't even a it's like when are you escaping tuesday oh wednesday i'm sorry wednesday cool cool i thought it was too my bad all right see you on the outside so i'll see you before then okay good i just wanted to make sure i'd see that well one guy's name is thurman moore jr

fellow prisoner and um so that he's in on the he hears about the plan and then he wants the plan you know he wants to get in on the plan now he says that uh warren sumlin told him that ruth is supposed to act like she wants to fool around with this J.Y. Cooper. You know, act like, hey, I'm real horny for you, but I just want to get some booze and go out to the woods and shit. You know what I mean? You'd be a terrible person to get a car from somebody. Hey, dude, I'm super horny for you and stuff.

Want to go out in the woods and fucking get it on? Isn't it fascinating how men have... Will get drunk. We've literally never used sex to get anything no we have no idea no idea to use seduction to get anything that's not a thing that we have your pitch was real bad i would try to be funny that would be my approach that'd be the best to you too that would be our approach to it sex isn't what's gonna sell this at all for us and we know we know you could if you're like if you're like spanish or something and you could be like hello and you have like an accent or something cool like that or any foreign language at all where i've seen the serious the difference is like i've seen me naked so if i

just like got naked been like ah they'd be like oh god no i don't think you're supposed to be presenting while you're doing this i think it's a good idea you're supposed to that comes later probably yeah but i know that they're gonna see what it is that i'm that i'm using we're comedians we understand how repulsive we are in every way shape and form especially mentally we get that we get what's wrong with us you know and as any comedian that thinks they could seduce someone like that is not funny i guarantee you they are not funny funny no you hear that and you go that's hilarious i couldn't do that i know that i'd eventually have to pay up with what i'm telling what i'm using as and by then it's like i'm so sorry you got the

shit end of this i don't think sup bro i'm super horny for you i don't think that's the plan she's probably gonna take but that's probably how he told her to do it for sure yeah tell him like you're super you're super horny for him and stuff man just like you can't wait wet just be like oh baby it's yeah it's dripping down to my ankles and like dude he'll do anything you want then you know what i'm saying say i'm a slut for four yeah just say any say crazy shit you know what i mean be like where are your friends at i'll blow them too he'll like it this guy doesn't fucking know any better so that's his plan that's the plan that that someone tells fellow inmate thurman moore and then they're

going to get his car and leave him drunk in the woods yeah um or drop him off somewhere whatever the fuck so feels like uh drunk and asleep in his own bed is is the better option there right seems better that seems somebody drunk in the woods they're telling the cops pretty soon i would say so they're to be pissed about that. At least tuck them in. As soon as they find a house with a phone, they're going to be upset about that story. It's going to be rapid fucking fast dialing. I think they'll come back soon.

I don't think that's going to be going on. So this Thurman Moore, he said that, you know, he questioned Warren Sumlin as to what happens if this guy doesn't cooperate? What if he doesn't give the car up? What if he's like, hey, you're not driving my car? Who the fuck knows? So Thurman Moore said that Wayne Sumlin made a motion with his index finger like he was pulling the trigger. Like, you know, boom, we'll shoot him. Who cares?

That was the thing. So Moore said that he was later informed of all the details of the escape and uh you know all of that and he was also told that if the jailer doesn't cooperate at any point that they're going to shoot him too oh boy so you know just so you know thurman you're in with a you're in with the with a shooty group here we're shooting everybody we're gonna murder to get out of murder hey that's what you gotta do it's shooting everybody we're gonna murder to get out of murder hey that's what you gotta do it's doubling down we're gonna triple shit this is we're gonna murder a lot to get out of one murder split those aces babe let's do it you know that's what it is let's give it a

shot so uh troy lee biggs here sounds like a WWE wrestler, doesn't it? Yeah. Troy Lee Biggs. He testified later on to when they asked that he was also in the Columbia County Jail when the whole thing was being planned and everything. At one point, he was even in the same cell with Warren Sumlin. And he said that the Sumlins talked to each other through the jail window she would pull up outside and they just talked through the fucking window man that's how lax this is she's like visiting hours are over outside okay and then she goes around the side like what

is going on man this isn't like some kind of you know juvenile halfway house he's in there for murder like this is 1872 either in fucking in baghdad arizona yeah this is the 70s for christ's sake wow so um that's interesting uh he said though that he heard them talking but he didn't know anything about an escape which that's also could be self-serving to never have those charges of not turning them in. Yeah. Another guy, Donald Lee Biddle. He was also in the cell. Why is everybody middle name Lee?

They all have Lee because it's Arkansas. God, Jesus. Everybody's Bobby Lee, Donnie Lee, Troy Lee, even Troy Lee. They're all Lee. It doesn't matter. And then the girls are probably Lee, Donnie Lee, Troy Lee, even Troy Lee. They're all Lee. It doesn't matter. And then the girls are probably Lee too. That's Susie Lee right there. There she is.

I don't know. It's Arkansas in the 70s and 50s when they were named for all we know. Lee, Lynn, or Marie. That's all they had. That's a lot of them. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

So Donald Lee Biddle, he's in the jail, and he said he knew about the whole escape plan for a week before the escape happened. That's what I mean. It was all planned. Next week, right? Cool, bro. Good luck. He said that he and Ruth, he said that Ruth had come to the jail, not he and Ruth.

Ruth had come to the jail almost every day. Even when she couldn't visit, she just talked to him through the window outside. So that didn't matter. He heard them talking about getting J.Y. Cooper's car before the escape and even heard the plans for both of them to leave in the vehicle and where

they were going to go and like he heard the whole plot being told through the jail window uh he said at one time ruth told warren that cooper might not drink enough so what if he doesn't drink enough not everybody gets blackout drunk he might get a buzz and be like, I'm good now. You know, we don't know if he's a blackout alcoholic. Do we know that information? Sometimes the line of puking is too far, and I'd rather not. That's right there. So he said, what happens then if, you know, if that doesn't, if you won't drink enough?

What are we supposed to do? And this guy said that Warren told Ruth to just do it the best way you could. By any means necessary. Have fun with it. Get the car. Have fun with it. Make it your own. Be yourself.

Make it your own. It's your palette. You know what I mean? It's your canvas. You can paint what you'd like, honestly. This is crazy. This girl was nine hours away from graduating college five months ago and now she's being told make it your own now she's like yeah make the carjacking your own it's fine like make the armed robbery your own yeah so then jackie moore who i believe is related

to thurman moore he also said that warren told him um that he wanted to get out of jail and then he got in on the plan too so multiple people are in on this plan and the plan is to take place on thanksgiving night that's the plan thursday uh the 24th of uh november here so that's the that's how this is going down that's the thanksgiving night's the perfect time though he'll be all fat from turkey when he comes in for a second shift i feel like on trip to fan i feel like that's what they thought it was he'll never wake up with this hat over his face like that you know how he does it full of stuff and cranberry sauce oh he ate so much stuff and look at him you can just see it you can see the stuffing all over them they had turkey and ham look at them look at them you can tell so on thanksgiving evening about 10 p.m

when people are tired yep she goes to the jail and says hi it's me and they're like it's 10 o'clock but it's thanksgiving so you know i mean it's a holiday. See your husband for the holidays. She says, yeah, I'd like to see him. Also, I have a knife and a gun. She whips out a pistol with one hand and a knife with the other hand, okay, and holds them on the jailer, on the guard here. So he's like, oh, shit. Not in any capacity of, like, warning him.

Just like this is legit breaking him out right now. This is going down right now. Get over there and open those cells she says to him so he goes and has to open multiple cells four cells she has to he has to open all the men he's forced to i need all of them so uh several five prisoners end up escaping in all. Wow. Five. Several stayed in their cells. They were like, I'm only in here for a DUI. Like, I'm going to stay. They'll probably let me out in the morning, I think. I'll be out tomorrow.

I'm fine. I think, yeah, I wrote a bad check about six months ago, and they said I had to do 48 hours. I said, all right, might as well do it on Thanksgiving because my family don't get along anyway. I don't need to get into all that, but you know what I mean. I'm not escaping is what I'm telling you. You go ahead. I'll go ahead, though. I'll catch up.

I'll catch up later. About two days when they let me out, like legitimately. We'll all meet up for lunch or something. We'll go to the steak cook-off. You know what I'm saying? It's going to be lovely this year. I hear that cooking. How do you like your ribeye?

Come on by. I hear there's an F-14 just split in half like nobody's business. They're going to make me a medium rare ribeye on it. Cook one on a 383 block. I can't wait.

Oh, that's the best type to cook it on. Right on that 383 block. I can't wait. Oh, that's the best type to cook it on. Right on that Dodge engine block of the Cuda. The Cuda tastes the best. I mean, the satellite was okay, but man, when you break into that Cuda, boy, that's something else now. Now you're talking. The fender wells create

an unbelievable vortex of heat cuts right through the middle two minutes like the sear on it is the thing see it's it's don't have the right angle some of these cars out here now you get that it's a you get your cuda going that mopar v8 something else and uh you know my my slogan's always, some people dress up, they have all these slogans. Mine's just, eat off my cuda. You know what I mean? Mopar the better. Eat my meat out my cuda. You know what I mean?

I put signs up. You ever had it from the cuda? A lot of people say, I beg your pardon, and then I turn around and run away. That's what I do as fast as I can because i ain't answering no questions so it's 10 o'clock she's showing up people are like i'll stay here i'm good you coming you coming it's one of those so uh this thomas moore jr who'd been in there he said he's only been in jail for two weeks oh boy and he knew in advance of the jail break and he's like i'm in i'm going right i hate this place already two weeks i'm out so jackie moore he also goes um they're all going

thurman moore jr jackie moore they're the ones who are in the same car other people take off and they're caught relatively quickly the other two that are gone they're caught fast these three end up in the car with ruth the moores and uh fast these three end up in the car with ruth the moors and uh and warren end up in the car with ruth and they have a much more interesting journey let's just say that here so warren and ruth um here uh they leave the jail in a pontiac that belongs to jy cooper so she succeeded in her quest for the car. She got it. Maybe he drank enough. So the Moors ride in the front seat of

the Pontiac while the Sumlins are in the back. And the Moors switch driving places after a while too. Let's say you get furthest. Let's say you get furthest. Yeah, we gotta switch. They're just driving through Arkansas and they have, like I said, the Sumlins are in the back.

I don't know if they're making out. They got married in jail. They're newlyweds, for God's sake. We got to consummate this motherfucker. Right here in the back of this Pontiac. Yeah. God and everybody. In front of God, the Moore brothers.

Yeah. That jailer we threatened to stab and everybody. So they drive. First, they stop in Magnolia for gas. And then they stop in Cairo for liquor. So I guess if that was the nearest place with liquor, that's where probably they were going, I would assume. They know. If you live around here, you know where all the county lines are, I bet.

Yeah. And if you like booze, you're very familiar, for sure. You're a geographer. You keep on top of that shit. You could draw the county lines if you had a map of the state. You'd know right where they are. So next they drive to El Dorado to try to decide what to do. Okay, what the hell do we do here?

What are we going to do okay what the hell do we do here what are we going to do then they head back north on the highway again towards four dice which is f-o-r-d-y-c-e which i assume is four dice but it sounds like four dice and i wanted to it's four to see four to see it could be fortis four i assume in the south it's fortis yeah probably fortis and you're like like, F-O-R-T-I-S? Nope. Nope. All right. Never mind. Shit. Yeah, that's the one. So they're heading towards Fortis.

Now, you're really good with southern town names. You always know how to pronounce them. You speak hillbilly so well. It's amazing. I'm terrible with them. I'm like, four days. It's really a bummer to grow up with that. I'm looking for how the letters correspond to the English language you're just like fortis you're right that d is a t

you're totally right and then y is an i you're right you're totally right it's kind of like how you can't read italian last names i don't even have them you have them written and i know what you're trying to pronounce and i pronounce and you and you're like, I think that's right. And I stare at it for 10 minutes. Oh, boy. That's four dice to me. Fortis. Oh, I love it.

So now, according to Ruth here, Warren drinking heavily during this trip. I mean, obviously. I would, too. Yeah. I just got out the pen. I'm drinking. I got out of the county jail where i'm wanted for murder yeah we're putting back back a few she also said he began it became

unruly which from his history from his history seems like a guy that you can have drunk around firearms no problem and nothing would happen you just gave a murderer alcohol what do you think that's gonna calm him we know that we know of he shot three people yeah allegedly killed one of them and armed robbed countless people just in the limited window of information we have on him god knows what the other shit he's done from 16 he's been a menace he's not Alcohol's not the problem that he needs to calm himself. No, unruly. Yeah, that's one way of putting it. So they end up at one point looking in the car. They're looking around to see what this J.Y. Cooper might have in his car.

In his car, fucking glory days, more liquor in the trunk. Oh, God. They pop the trunk. There's more liquor in there. Hell, yeah. Which this guy, J.Ww was taking a girl out to the woods he brought liquor with him like hey let's go honey so uh obviously he's gonna try to get her drunk so uh they all started to drink especially warren he's drinking the hardest

then also they said that cooper's uh jw or jy cooper's wallet was in the console of the car oh no so he left it in the car in the console there's 35 bucks in there yeah so they're like yo i got that shit 35 bucks hell yeah 12 cents a gallon we can go fucking europe if we can drive it not in 77 no is it bad then that's lines and shit in 77 that's bad yeah that's the gas fuel shortage and all that shit so uh yeah that was like from 74 to 77 somewhere in there really five to 75 to 78 with waning and you know i've been in flowing amounts uh but yeah there was like the alternate days based on your license plate number where you could get gas and all that shit you ever read about that no if your license plate ended in a fucking you know even number then you went on tuesdays if it ended on an odd number you went on fucking wednesdays like that was just

terrible yeah that's how it was so um anyway she uh this is this is what we're half what's happening around here so they uh they get they fucking get the money 35 yeah they get the 35 and then someone finds out that one of the moors has 160 on him how do you do that so i don't know i guess he had it in jail or whatever commissary or whatever so 160 bucks plus 35 you know this is gas money and all that sort of thing. Yeah. Except Warren says, rather than, Hey,

we can all get away. He says we should kill them and take $160 from them. Oh, Warren, we should just kill them both. What do we need those? These two fucking idiots for, let's just kill them,

take their money and go, what are we doing here? And then we'll ride off into the night. So $200. With $195 and a dream. We're ready to go. So he found a.22 caliber pistol in the car. I guess it was Cooper's, we assume here.

And he, Jesus Christ, man. He ends up having them pull over and they get out. I don't know if he acts like he has to piss or whatever. But he shoots them both, both the Moors. Pop, pop. Okay. Shoots one of them in the neck twice. Shoots the other one in the head.

One of them's in the leg. Like he empties some shots into him. So, yeah, he's doing all this type of shit. So before that, though, he's standing out there with Ruth and his gun misfired at first. It clicked several times, was misfiring. He told her, you shoot at the same time as me we're gonna do this together yeah when i shoot you shoot his and hers yeah his and hers so he said yeah they're gonna do that shit um we're gonna shoot together um so then it fired and then as soon as her his fired she fired her gun too and all this shit so wow the moors uh struck by a hail of bullets

uh the one guy thurman in the neck jackie in the head like i said multiple shots one got hit in the leg they bail out of the car obviously yeah he apparently wants this car so i'm out of here so they uh bail out of the car and they. Thurman runs and hides in the woods. They're alive. They're alive. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's a 22.

Yeah. So if it doesn't bounce around enough, it's just going to be an annoyance at that point. So Thurman runs and hides in the woods. Jackie runs down the road. So Warren chases after him, running, firing his gun at him, chasing him down the road so warren chases after him running firing his gun at him chasing him down the road don't want to draw attention to yourself or anything while you're escaping prison that's not a spotlight this is insane this is this guy's like a pulp fiction character what the fuck are you doing man so ruth is also runs up right next to him firing her gun too what is happening

ruth what are you doing you could have been a college graduate like three months ago what is wrong with you what is going on here so uh jackie moore ends up escaping from the gunfire and escaping everything he's missing for weeks we'll talk about this wow he's missing for weeks. We'll talk about this. Wow. He's missing for weeks. With a bullet wound to his fucking head? With a bullet wound to his head. So, yeah. Or a bullet wound to his neck. He was the one shot in the neck.

I believe, yeah. Oh, no. He was the one shot in the head. Bullet wound to the head. Okay. There you go. Okay. So, okay.

okay so okay about this time because this is kind of over like in like a ditch area they pulled over around this time two people just happen to be driving by see a car pulled over see a couple people there ruth and warren are walking back from chasing and shooting at people yeah these people go oh they must be having car trouble that day and they pull over to help oh no don't do that ever they pull over to help um there so um warren was still i guess trying to pursue the the other ones at that the moors so ruth hops in and fucking jumps in the car yeah and she tries to drive it away after they got out to help um so yeah she does that so uh this is fucking insane warren comes back um then ruth holds the the one of the strangers yeah at gunpoint takes his money from him this guy robs him at gunpoint then shoots him oh god then shoots him okay uh this is uh warren did this while ruth was

in the driver's seat waiting for him he goes hold on baby i'll be right there just gonna go rob and shoot this dude real quick oh dear this nice man who pulled over to help us i'm just gonna take his money and shoot him for no reason even though he gave me the money right maybe he figured out license plate numbers by now or something i don't know so he does that hops in the car they take off now they've rid themselves of the other two yeah how great does warren feel right now he's drunk bottle in his hand he just shot three fucking people yeah he's got at least two hundred dollars in this point this is like you celebratorily pop in the bad company eight track at this point and you're like bad company i won't deny my favorite song right here buddy bag that's us right now bad company

i like that song because it's a band with a cool name so they named the album a cool name and then they were like you know what let's make a song about the same name as the album and our fucking band and we'll make it like about us like i'll say that's why they call me bad company like i'm a person that's right we are bad people and we want everybody to know it don't fuck with this band i was born six gun in my hand that's my favorite part right there see because that was me i was born six gun in my hand poor mother about 40 years down the road another band's gonna make it sing every word the exact same but they're gonna make one more menacing gun be the one that's born that's gonna do it they sang the same song they're like yeah, shotgun. Fuck a shotgun. Fuck a six gun.

Less cowboy-ish. So you were born with a, that's even worse for the mother. Mrs. Company, yes, good news. You have a healthy baby boy. Bad news is we can't seem to get his, he's holding on to something. There won't, we can't, is that a.38 pistol in there? Oh my goodness, yes, this is terrible, this poor young, he's either trying to fist you or he's got a.38 pistol in there, I'm not sure. Oh my goodness, this is, he's a bad, he's bad company, obviously.

We haven't had one this bad since the Thorogood baby a couple of months ago, remember him? We all gathered around him. We all gathered around him. What'd that what did that doctor say that doctor said something about him we said to leave him they didn't though they took him home I guess it's the law they had to they couldn't leave him alone said down to the bone he's bad

just bad we're gonna add this one to the list I think that's how it's gotta go that poor thorough good family they had to go through the same thing you're going through add this one to the list, I think. That's how it's got to go. That poor Thorogood family. They had to go through the same thing you're going through. Forty years later, same doctor delivering a lady. Baby's holding a fucking Mossberg. You guys are not going to believe this. Ma'am, I've only seen this twice.

Pistol grip pump on this baby he's got quite the grip on him ma'am i don't think he's he ain't letting go this this is definitely gonna hurt hold on we delivered those last two babies bad news we have already given you that pesiotomy not coming out who got you pregnant clint eastwood what the fuck's going on in here why is he holding this thing we are gonna split you like that 747 barbecue buckle up medium rare exactly let's do it rare exactly let's do it jesus christ bad company till the day i die come on turn it up i've done shot three people turn it up i have only seen this i love the thought of the doctor

delivering all three of those babies. The doctor, the nurses are all the same. Why? Not again. He pulls his mask down. Not again. You're not going to believe this.

I quit! Say one of the nurses just throws her shit down and quits. I can't take it anymore. It runs out. It's too taxing. This job is too taxing. I've held two mother's hands through this before. Never again.

Felt their hands. Bet you're sad you didn't get that epidural now, ain't you, sweetheart? All right, let's try to get it out. You said you could breathe through it, so come on. You want a screwdriver? You can at least bite down. I'll give you some. I don't know. Got a leather strap in here or something.

Wow. strapping here some so wow okay so he's apparently riding down the road playing bad company at this moment reminiscing about his mother's pain yeah and ruth is like i made the right decision oh boy i'm doing great here so um anyway they're they're uh they're driving away and uh a fortis fortis we'll call it fortis policeman came on the scene uh this is about seven miles outside of fortis uh now he came to answer the radio call and he gives chase in the direction of the sumlins that they're going because there's been gunfire and cars being stolen and a jailbreak so it's out there everyone keep your eyes open now he's able to stop them okay he pulls them over but what happens is ruth when he gets out of his car ruth just rams his vehicle a couple of times with their car and then drives away she's running the cops now yeah she's bashing

in the cops while she's driving um so apparently uh at this point um they another car enters the thing somebody hits another car they hit a car then that car careens into another car and then another police car is coming and that car gets hit it turns into like a 70s cop show pile up at this point. Just wee-roo-ree-roo at the end of the scene. Like the dying siren. Yeah. That's all you hear.

As the light just stops. Yeah. Still shining, just not moving. Just not moving anymore. Just blue. Yeah. At that time somehow i don't know if he's trying to get out of a disabled car is probably the thing he's trying to run rather than fight i guess right um again the song they did say that you know destiny and all this type of shit so yeah you know that, that's what it's how he makes his final stand.

That's one of the making his final stand in this stand, though. They subdue him and arrest him and roof. They didn't kill him. No, nobody got killed in this. You might be saying no one's been murdered yet. Is it this murder in California? Wait, wait for it. Wait, living through it. Everybody living through it?

Wait for it. Let's just say that. Did the people that stopped, they survived too? We'll talk all about it here. They also arrested Thurman Moore as well because he was gunshot, a gunshot wound in his neck hiding in the woods, so he wasn't going to get very far. They get him um yeah the police were alerted about a wrecked car in a ditch on highway

167 the cops said that um they couldn't find jackie moore though the other one who shot in the head they're like can't be that hard to find an escaped criminal who shot in the head and apparently it is like i said he's gone for weeks he also he also shot though uh he shot uh george h smith of little rock is the guy he shot in the hip uh when he and his wife were were because he had ruth like waved them down hey help us and then they pulled over and he robbed them and fucking shot him in the hip while he while she jumped in their car and ran away there so they chased the car forced it to a stop at 2 45 p.m this sort of 10 o'clock at night they've been out since shit so that's not a bad run i mean that's shit they got 15 hours out of this bad boy um so um they said that he had been working someone by the way been working in magnolia under an assumed

name that's how and then he got arrested for drugs and robbery and then he uh they found out who he was so uh the other inmate is hospitalized thurman moore jr is in custody hospitalized for gunshot wounds uh they're searching for jackie moore though that's the one they can't find they're looking everywhere for him uh they have not they said he hadn't been seen since he was shot in the head and he took off. So they're thinking he's like dead in a field later or something. They find him five months later living in Michigan. He healed. He got shot in the head while escaping and fucking lived

and somehow got to another place. A very far place. That's amazing. Several states away. That's where he's from. He's from Michigan. So several states away. Maybe he walked for five months?

I don't know. Who picked him up with a gunshot wound and said, sure, I won't call the police. You have a hole in your head. Something's going on. He had a five-month headache for sure, right? Yeah. If someone has a gunshot wound in their head and they don't want the police called something happened like they're

they're up to something i would be concerned with that shit don't be around that person no i would say not somehow though he did that everybody else though like i said the two that weren't in the car the escapees they were rounded up like quickly in town like right outside the jail they didn't last very long they like went and hid behind a dumpster and like this is great right The two that weren't in the car, the escapees, they were rounded up quickly in town, right outside the jail. They didn't last very long. They went and hid behind a dumpster and like, this is great, right? Any cigarette butts on the ground? This is phenomenal.

I love being out. The freedom. That's the freedom that you feel as they're hiding behind a dark dumpster. So they captured Donald Lee Biddle at a Magnolia residence, and Briggs was the other one's last name. And he was apprehended as he walked along a highway. Wow. He just walked along a main highway, like not thinking they would pick him up there. What a dipshit.

Is he the dumbest? Walking down the interstate? Yeah, at least the other guy went to a house. At least he's in a house. I mean, I'm sure it was his parents' house or somewhere that they knew to find him. But this guy's walking down the most open road you can. I mean, I can understand it because it's got to go somewhere, right? No shit, man.

That doesn't dead end somewhere. That's a road somewhere. Something is going on. So they take the Sumlins into custody. The Fortis policeman here takes them into custody. Now they look in Ruth's purse, obviously. They're looking through it for weapons when they

collect them. She has a knife in her purse. The knife has some blood on it, too. So there's like some dried blood on it. So they're like, interesting. There's a knife with blood on it. That's something. We'll definitely take this away from her because it's a weapon, but that's something to look into. They also found J.Y. Cooper's billfold that was in his wallet there.

And they also find a letter in a sealed envelope found in her purse that was addressed to her mother. Now, this is all seized, obviously, with her purse when she's arrested here, they've been shooting and bashing into police cars and shit. So, you know, any kind of weapons are going to take away. Now, neither the policeman who arrested her or the chief of the Fortis Police Department ever inventoried the purse. Not one. They didn't go go through they have these prisoners and didn't go through what the fuck they were on them after they searched them they didn't inventory the purse they were just like up take take the weapons out cool and have that when this is over that is why more on the letter in a minute by the way because the letter is the letters wild jimmy is it fascinating oh it's fascinating yeah i would say um so, Ruth does, in the custody of the Fortas police until she was transferred to the custody of the Dallas County Sheriff. This is Dallas County, Arkansas. Joe Pennington is his name, the Dallas County Sheriff.

About daylight on November 25th. So the next day. daylight on November 25th. So the next day. Now she remained there till about 7pm when she is transferred to the Columbia County Jail. So they take her kind of day by day there.

So after, at this point they're also transporting Warren Sumlin in the same manner through the jails. The evening of the 25th she's informed of her rights every time she gets somewhere. They tell her the rights are made. So any new cop that comes in contact with her, they have to read her rights and all that.

Smart, I guess. And it's, yeah, it's all documented that they did. Who knows whether they did or not, but it's documented. She was read her rights at this time because she has to sign the sheet and all that shit. So she does that. She refused to make a statement when she got to the columbia

county jail that evening um on sunday the 27th of uh november the columbia county sheriff told ruth that he's going to transfer her to the eldorado jail instead send her back another place so um he tells her that uh because he said that in the columbia county jail where they were where the jail break took place he doesn't have facilities for a female prisoner oh it's like i don't have like a separate thing for you so ladies around here just don't break the law so we got law-abiding christian women down here um they don't break the law and when they do it's for a good reason and we just kind of let it go it's either that or we just let their husband handle it in-house we find it charming when women commit crimes down here uh you know i think it's rather cute we think it's a it's

the yeah it's it's the way that it's a cute it's an adorable thing to do what i look for in a lady so um they don't have a woman's jail no they have no facilities for a woman a woman in this jail it's not that they get away with everything it's that they definitely don't get away with anything and it's just handled in-house i guarantee that's what it is it's got to be probably it probably is jesus that's. Back in the day like that. Yeah. No shit. So the sheriff and her both say the same thing, that that's what he said. The sheriff also said he wanted, said she requested to stay near Warren also and, you know, wanted to be near him so she could possibly, I don't know if she could see him or what. She said she wanted to talk near him so he could she could possibly i don't know if she could see him or what she said she wanted to talk to him she said the sheriff asked if she wanted to talk before they went to

el dorado not about not to her husband do you want to talk to me about what happened before i take you she refused to talk again uh twice after being you know read her rights and everything the uh at some point here she does ask for a lawyer okay now apparently they stopped asking her any questions uh when she is talked when she's uh asked about a lawyer yeah she uh she refused to talk with dallas or columbia or anything but when she gets to el dorado she has a a change of heart apparently here um i guess she realizes the case against her in the jailbreak is pretty strong. It's sturdy. Yeah.

She didn't wear a mask. She came in. They know who she is. She got married there for Christ's sake. They all know. They did paperwork with her name on it like a lot. Pretty familiar with her. Pretty familiar with her.

It's not. Here's her description. They're like, it's Ruth. Yeah. You know, Ruth from, yeah, Ruth, her. That's the one. of like it's ruth yeah you know ruth from yeah ruth her that's the one so um there's many witnesses telling the same story and everything else that we just described so there we go um she decides though um that she might want to talk but not that night she's like we'll talk about so she's

going to talk to the el dorado police now the thing she's going to talk to them about that they really want to talk to her about, because the jailbreak, they don't even need her testimony. We know what happened. There's 20 people sought. That's not really a problem. But the day after we caught you, that Friday or that Saturday, there were some deer hunters out in the woods. They were hunting around and you're looking at stuff and uh what they found is pretty terrifying yeah they found jy cooper's body oh boy out there

clothed only in socks and an undershirt found out there okay socks and an undershirt this is in a wooded area off calhoun road east of magn Magnolia. He had been shot through the temple. One shot dead through the temple. Then there is also the fact that his and we'll just read from the court docs. I'll tell you exactly what it was in a little minute and a minute here. But his sexual organs had been mutilated. We'll talk about mutilated here in a second. So it's at this moment where both Warren and Ruth are held without bond now because now there's a murder involved here.

So they're held without bond and they're going to talk about being charged with murder and everything else. Now, the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on Cooper said Cooper was killed by the gunshot wound. No alcohol was found in his bloodstream. Not a drop. Zero. She didn't get him to drink at all. So she just killed him. But she did some stuff before and after she killed him.

His whole taint, Jimmy, from asshole to nuts yeah and beyond from asshole to top of the dick is cut oh wow open like it's basically like a half done gender reassignment surgery like that's shocking yeah what it is like there's an open cut everything in half the quote from the court docs, quote, the scrotum and its contents were absent. Oh, no. Gone. Dick cut open. Tank cut open. Nuts and fucking ball sack gone.

Cut off. Holy shit. They never found the balls, Jimmy. Where are the balls? Did she have them fed to animals? Where are the balls, man? Were they there to animals? Where are the balls, man? Were they there at one point, or did she cut them off? Oh, everything's cut.

This is all of the knife. Oh, clean cut. It was opened. Yeah. It was cut open. Yeah, filleted. It was removed, and then the rest of the nutsack was cut off, too, and his dick was cut open and mutilated. And then castrated.

And then castrated, yeah. holy shit um so or after the gunshot they think after okay okay so he had type o blood and the the knife in roots purse have found that was found had human blood on it once Once they tested, it's type O blood in her purse. Also, that letter that's in her purse to her mother. Type O blood on it. Want to know what that says? Oh, it's type. They don't need fucking blood for this letter.

Keep an eye out for UPS. They shipped you a scrotum. Watch out. There's a scrotum in the mail. You're going to really need to that. I sent the ball separate though. Cause you, if they lost one of them,

I really didn't want to, you know, got to have some of that. I don't want to lose one, losing both kind of thing. I want you to get, get something. So this is the letter part of it here.

Anyway, quote, hi mom. Like, I mean, I'm sure there was, Hey mom. Nice.

Good to hope all as well. Hope dad's doing good. Aunt Margaret. Okay. Like, Ma. Nice. Good to hope all is well. Hope Dad's doing good. Aunt Margaret, okay? Like, what are we talking about? Quote, Warren and me are on the run, just like Bonnie and Clyde, she says. Oh, my gosh. She's a college student and says Warren and me. Warren and me are on the run, just like Bonnie and Clyde.

I broke him out of jail. are on the run just like bonnie and clyde i broke him out of jail then she says quote if they say a man was killed i killed him not warren just want you to know that warren isn't warren isn't making me do anything i'm much much worse than he is oh boy yeah he never fucking he never this is like serial killer shit you know mutilating sexual organs to a body that you've had in the woods oh by the way they had sex too she had sex with him oh wow so that's how you get him to be shirt without your pants on underground yeah and undershirt and socks but this is like ted bundy shit like i'm gonna take him to the woods have sex with him and then murder him and cut up his sexual organs this is a fucking this is serial killer.

Alien Warno style. Yeah, this is great. This is a she was in college. What the fuck is going on? She's a college student who's doing like what? What is happening? This is absolutely fucking bonkers. So the sheriff said he opened it because at the time he there were still escapees out there.

at the time he there was still escapees out there and he wanted to know if maybe it contained something about the whereabouts of other escapees which is a fine reason to read it um so they said it was known that two men were shot several people had escaped and they said the exact numbers and whereabouts of people were unknown so they wanted to make sure nothing was in there so ruth sumlin wrote another incriminating letter while she's in jail addressed to her mother. She delivered it unsealed to a jail attendant. She had been told all of your correspondences while in the jail will be read. So she just gives this guy an open fucking letter with incriminating shit in it, which doesn't seem very smart. The letter was seized, obviously, because there you go.

Jail officials can examine certain communications of a prisoner as a matter of security, and letters are all about that. My mother did that when I was a kid. She worked at Greenhaven Prison, where she went through the mail. Yeah. She worked in a dark little room going through their mail, and she said there was some... What has your mom read?

Oh, boy, she's got so the pictures and the fucking oh my god she's read some disgusting damn it oh man she's told some stories about that so uh she uh they said that um uh for the same reason a note she wrote on a paperback book and tried to slip it to warren was also seized here's that book you were interested in honey they were like let's go oh look at this and another jailbreak fucking plan great is this a rock hammer you bitch you what is this a file in here jesus so ruth had uh already participated in one jailbreak and they said they were the officials were treated her with extra security because of her participation and planning of a jailbreak so she she decides she says i'll

talk i'll talk i'll say what happened she says she asks for a chance to talk to her husband first she said let me talk to warren and i'll talk to you and they said i guess so she's allowed to talk to warren which is crazy that they would and they said i guess so she's allowed to talk to warren which is crazy that they would let two murder suspects get their story straight first but that you keep fuck you you're never going to talk to that person again unless it's through monitored letters that's how they handle it normally anybody uh we're going to listen to every word you say unless it's your attorney but definitely your husband uh who's also up on the same charge, you're not talking to him. Instead, they let them talk.

She said, she tells the cops that he told her to not say anything and get a lawyer. And she said, though, that she decided to talk anyway because she could not change her mind once she told. She said, I'm not changing. I already told him I'd make a statement, so I can't go back on it, she said. So now I'm going to do it, because I said I'd do it. She's got a real moral backbone on her, though, I'll say that. If I say I'm going to break you out of jail, I'm going to break you out of jail. That's it.

I'm going to do it. She does what she says. She has more word as bond than bust a rhyme. Yeah. I would hire her. Yeah. I would hire her for a job like i feel like she says it's gonna do even if it's murder she's gonna do it fuck her even if it's breaking someone out of jail so she's also said okay before i make a statement not only do i have to talk to my

husband but let me make a phone call before i make a statement as well so she's allowed to call one of her neighbors i don't know why she wanted to talk to a neighbor i guess she thought they knew something about her situation she told i'll be in here a while grab my mail while i'm in here please there's bad people out there i'm well aware i don't want anybody to know i'm not home grab the newspaper while you're at it you know know how it goes. Turn the lights on. Maybe set a timer. She told her neighbor that she was going to confess as well. She's like, I'm just going to confess. I'm going to get it over with.

So she made a statement on tape, which was obviously going to be used against her later on. The tape statement opens and closes with her being informed of her rights as well. So make sure that's legit. She never once during the course of this said she wanted a lawyer either as well. She said she wanted to do it. Now, she gives two different versions of what happens here, what happened. But in the statement that she to police at this time, she admitted planning to get the vehicle of J Y Cooper, uh, and use it in an escape. She explained that she and Cooper had been out before she'd gone out with him before. And that she and Warren Sumlin had discussed getting his vehicle because they knew

that Cooper liked her. So she said, I went out with Cooper that afternoon. That evening, I told him to drive to this back road and we had sex. She said, then when we were done, before he even put his pants on, I shot him in the head and took his car. Why?

What about the other part? Well, she said that then she took the car, drove to the the jail did the whole jail break that whole thing transpired that all happened before she's like don't know anything about that what else you're talking about there i don't know they said well when did you cut all that and she's i don't know what you mean yeah no idea that's crazy no that sounds nuts they found tissue they found tissue like you know tissues uh contain containing both semen and blood around cooper's body really okay like yeah around it i don't know sprinkled around it

like they made a design yeah like a tissue like it wiped his dickers i don't know what the fuck's going on but um they found that all around his body. So they said, OK, that backs up the fact that she said they had sex first and everything like that. So they're trying to corroborate all that kind of shit. She claimed that the sexual act occurred in the back seat. And that's what happened. And they said that later on, she'll have a different story, though. We'll talk about that so she said that warren this is wild later on her story is amazing later on she'll say must have been a coincidence that

all this shit happened she's like war later on she'll say warren killed him and cut his balls off just happens to be the same place where i went and fucked him earlier out of total coincidence she literally sat there reminiscing so march 31st 1978 ruth is in court prosecutor opening statement here uh it's a capital murder trial and they said the state's going to prove that she did this while attempting to steal his car to free her husband from jail this doesn't look good this is all bad he told the jury's eight women and four men that uh prior to the jail break cooper was uh this jy cooper was unknowingly being set up so his car could be used in the escape he thought i finally get to fuck this girl yeah that's what he thought um which he did but then you know that's a lot of consequences yeah that's you rather get yeah gonorrhea than that i mean jesus i think i'd rather have a lot

of things a lot of things so her defense attorney brian thomason of magnolia said that he uh he said to the jury that he'd not been able to figure out this case even though he's been studying it for months well you're a piss poor lawyer because i figured it out and uh we're doing it on a goddamn podcast and i don't know i don't know shit about the law so there you go he told the jury that ruth was the only sibling who gives her her whole story she's a you know she broke through 14 kids and went to jail and she's just hours short of her degree in psychology at Southern Arkansas University. And then this monster comes into her life and destroys it, which is true.

But you got to have something in you to do what she did. So in court, they bring in several black and white photos admitted, which show the Cooper's body, just the socks and the undershirt. And obviously, these are very graphic pictures. I can't imagine. Not so much the gunshot wound. admitted which show the cooper's body just the socks and the undershirt and uh obviously these are very graphic pictures i can't imagine not so much the gunshot wound that's just a clean hole in the temple but it's a square that's missing between his legs yeah yeah this is like fucking uh the uh west memphis three type shit yeah you know what i mean paradise lost is what i was going for no it's fucking terrible um so the uh they said that the the photographs were too gruesome they wanted them out of court and

the court ruled that they were evidence of the crime committed they weren't like they didn't like you know set them up in a set or something and we didn't we didn't make these happen this is where we found them click that's the cry they're crime scene photos we didn't make these happen. We didn't make them work. This is where we found them. Click. That's their crime scene photos. We didn't hire the cast of American Horror Story to make this. No. This is real. Pretty damning, right? Like, no, this is...

So they were relevant to who committed the crime, how it was committed, and where it was committed. The judge excluded several photographs, though, to avoid any, like, if one was a slightly different angle of the same terrible thing. Like we don't need that one. You can show it from this angle. You don't need the upskirt photo. Yeah. You already have the one from the upskirt. You don't need one three inches lower.

Like that's not going to. He said that the rule, because a lot of people ask about this, the rule on the admission of photographs of this nature. Here is how it is. Quote, however inflammatory they may be, they are admissible in the discretion of the trial judge if they tend to shed light on any issue or are useful to enable a witness to better describe the objects portrayed or for the jury to better understand the testimony or to corroborate testimony. So if you have a medical examiner saying this is what was done and this is where cuts happened you have the picture at the same time going see right here it's helpful so and it's you did don't do it if you don't want that shit shown in court sorry don't do crazy shit to dead bodies if you don't want the jury to see it and get sick the bummer is like you

you'll see the police photos and then you see see more detail of somebody testifying what it is. That's even worse. The cop's like, this is what happened. And look, his nuts are gone. And then the pathologist is like, here's an up close of the serrated edges of what happened. I don't want to see it. I saw it once. No.

If you're saying that a serrated knife edge a serrated edge knife did that you got to show the jury that why otherwise maybe they won't believe your guy you know that's your lady that's what it is so damn it ruth testifies on her own behalf here she's got it she's got no choice um she's got to come across as a real earnest poor young lady that's just trying to make her way here so she completely repudiates everything she said before yeah she's everything i said before uh if it doesn't exonerate me i didn't say it that's it um she said that she had sexual intercourse with cooper they had seen each other on other occasions and then this time she had sex with him but she didn't

kill him didn't kill him definitely didn't cut sex with him, but she didn't kill him. Didn't kill him. Definitely didn't cut him up. If I didn't kill him, I didn't cut him. Shit. She said she was in the backseat of his car. She said he was in the backseat of his car drunk when they all got in the car after the jail break. So in her story, he's there.

He's there. They fucked in the woods. And then they all the two of them piled in the car to go to the jail break so in her story oh he's there he's there they fucked in the woods and then they all the two of them piled in the car to go to the jail come on now let's break my husband out of jail now that you had sex with me let's break my murderer husband out of jail this will be good for you this should go well so they that's her story that he was drunk in the back seat which we know isn't true because his body had zero alcohol in it so that right there we know is bullshit um so she said he was drunk in the backseat they all got in the car uh she said that later on after all sorts of stuff happened that's when they went to the woods and uh warren

killed jy cooper um and uh she said well i didn't see it though obviously she said, well, I didn't see it, though, obviously. She said he took him down the road. Then I heard a gunshot. So I just assumed, you know, that somebody was shot. Somebody. She said that Warren killed Cooper because he knew Cooper had, quote, disrespected her. You know, obviously. So, you know, like made her drop out of college after almost having a psychology degree and being one of the only 14 kids. Yeah. You know, that made her drop out of college after almost having a psychology degree and being one of the only 14 kids to. Yeah.

You know, that sort of thing. Disrespect her and into ruining her life. That's exactly right. So she also testifies here that it was Warren that killed Cooper. Obviously, she said that she was she was under the influence of Warren Sumlin and that the escape was Warren's plan, not hers. She was just scared and going along with it. She denied, denied, denied mutilating the nutsack, completely denied it. I did not do it.

She said, you know what probably happened? Because we drove down to make sure he was still dead when we drove by. I think we might have ran over his legs. So those get trapped in the tread sometimes. What happens is when you run over a body, the nutsack explodes. Yeah, like a pimple. That's where the pressure goes. And your perineum's gone too, obviously. Your taint and your nutsack explode, and then your balls get caught in the tread.

That's how it works, really. And your dick gets sliced open too it's a clean cut you wouldn't think tires would cut so sharply but they really do there's some sharp edges in there when a balloon explodes it's never like it's pretty pretty clean cuts on those on those pieces of ribbon on pieces of rubber yeah perfect um there is evidence that a car did run over cooper's legs though so she ran his ass over detail of what she did oh wow she's just given like yeah but she didn't run over his not his genitalia wasn't run over that was cut up so the evidence obviously conflicted regarding the murder of cooper and the emasculation issue uh in her confession, she admitted shooting him, but always denied the nut cutting. In her testimony, though, obviously it's the opposite.

She did nothing. She was covering up for Warren. She's, you know, Warren killed Cooper and all this type of shit. Thomas and Jackie Moore, the other prisoners that they shot and robbed, they testify, too. Hey, fellas fellas was there anybody else in the car with you there you go they both stated that they were with the sumlins at all times and until they left the car right before they were apprehended by police and more people got involved and they said that no one else was in the car but the four of them definitely not

jy cooper uh obviously contradicting her testimony that he was drunk in the backseat. And they even said, like, maybe you wouldn't have noticed him in the backseat. They're like, we don't notice a grown man drunk in the backseat of a car that you're getting in. Yeah, it's on the back of a Pontiac. It's right there. So it's basically all logic and evidence and witnesses in the world against Root's word is the whole. No, no. word is the whole. Oh, no. That's the trial.

So the jury is instructed by the trial judge and they start their deliberations. Then they return and the foreman asked the judge if the state had to prove both robbery and escape in the first degree to find her guilty of capital felony murder. to find her guilty of capital felony murder. So the judge told the jury one would be enough and then read the instructions. Back to them again. Here's the jury instructions. So then the foreman said, Your Honor, if the defendant was an unwilling accomplice

to the actual shooting, would that change it in any way? How cute is she? She's got to be charming as fuck, man. What is happening yeah this isn't like this isn't an anna delvey situation she's got to be really charming what did you just ask me i've told you so many times giving you so much information so much information you're still curious so then the judge says quote i'm not sure how whoever is asking the question is defining the word unwilling. Yeah. And again, I think that if you will read the second part of the instruction on capital murder, the one that's entitled second, in case you're too dumb to figure it out, because it sounds like you are, is what he said under his breath.

I believe it would answer your question. I don't want to prejudice anybody. And that's why I'm not sure what you mean by unwilling. I don't want to prejudice anybody, and that's why I'm not sure what you mean by unwilling. I may have one idea under the law of what unwilling might be, but you may be looking at it in a different sense. And in the course of and in the furtherance of that crime, either robbery or burglary or flight there from, that Ruth Delia Sumlin or a person acting with her, a person acting with her in that case would be an accomplice. It does not say whether the accomplice is willing or unwilling. The law makes no distinction. So if you're with somebody and not running in the opposite direction, they're assuming you're a willing party. As the law says, you're a willing party. If you're part of this, you're part of this.

Because you'll hear all the time, like if you watch the first 48 they'll be like i was just in the car man and then he just started shooting him and then we drove well i didn't know he was going to shoot him like why didn't you jump out of the car you came to a red light why didn't you get out yeah get out go call the police blah blah obviously you're not going to do that but why don't you get out you could have got out here you could get out there this is also uh post that Eris getting kidnapped and Robin Banks with Patty Hearst. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

They probably have a little bit of that. She's cute. She could have just been brainwashed into going along with this. Patty Hearst did it. That's absolutely right. The 70s people were very much into brainwashing at that time and the Manson girls and all that shit. So the defense attorney then jumps into the mix here. Your Honor, I object to that interpretation of the law very strenuously.

Of course I do, because it benefits my client. And you will note my exceptions. I object to the way you, the judge, is interpreting the law. Even though your job as the judge is to be the judge of the interpretation of laws. That's exactly what your job is. But, yeah. You just said, Your Honor, I think you do a shit job. I think you're terrible at your job, Your Honor.

Your Honor, I would ask you to do your job better. Then he just starts singing Bad Company. I'd like you to know what I was born with. I'm telling you. what the fuck, man. So the court, the judge said, quote, the objection is so noted. Then he said, quote, that he caused the death of J.Y. Cooper under circumstances that manifesting an extreme indifference to the value of human life. There's further an instruction that tells

you what an accomplice is then i think you should that should answer your questions in other words read all the shit i gave you and explain to you the first time so it's a worksheet look it over first you're god damn it if it doesn't try again then come back and i'll try to go further with it so if you still don't know after that come on back and waste more of my time. So unwilling, by the way, is defined as withholding consent, loathe, reluctant, adverse. So not wanting to, unwilling, obviously.

One can reluctantly participate in a crime and still be guilty according to our law because you went along. The key to criminal conduct in such case is this uh as this is knowledge and it was defined and accomplice as it was defined so yeah the judge did all that referred back to original instructions have you read the note where she said i'm worse than him i'm worse than him i did it get out and go talk it over and that's to mom that's not to right that's not a sheriff in her face going you know you did it didn't you sweetheart come on

little lady tell me what you did i'm worse than them yeah not that hey mom just to let you know it wasn't him it was me that's like that comes with a wink and and lipstick fucking kissy mark on the envelope. Like, that's crazy. So the verdict comes in, and Ruth is found guilty of capital murder in this case here on March 31st. It's 1978. And the sentencing comes around, and they can do a variety of things with her. The death penalty's on the table. We're in Arkansas. They don't fuck around. They have some fun with it they say their own you ma'am yeah make it your own

play with it a little bit dress it up you ma'am bedazzle it yeah may fuck off life without parole is that right they banged her for life. I'm shocked that there wasn't death involved. No, no, not. They don't like to. Not the ladies. Especially in the 70s in the South. They didn't even have a jail for the ladies. You think they got a death row at this point for them?

That's probably why they didn't give her death. Yeah, they're like, since we have no facilities, life in prison. So August of 78 is Warren's trial now. so august of 78 is warren's trial now so uh they for warren they're trying to they're going to use ruth to testify against warren saying that the complete opposite of what she said in her trial which is amazing well they can that's wild yeah so uh a witness in this trial a guy named bill gentry he testified that sumlin had acted as a procurer of sex for his wife. Yeah. So this state offered this testimony to show because she's not on trial.

Ruth, he's on trial. But they use this testimony to show that Warren had control over his wife's actions. And they the court agreed that it was relevant to the case to show that he had control over her because their whole thing is they're trying him for capital murder and they're they're it's only her story that he actually did it is pretty shaky so they need to show he's a bad guy and he's a murderer anyway type of thing right that's what they're trying to show but the defense is going to try to say he didn't actually do it it was just her and we've convicted her of that exactly yeah that's exactly yeah they could her testimony in her trial is but her testimony her trial was that he did everything so they're using her trial testimony the prosecution

wants that but then the defense is going to call her as a witness and she's going to say the opposite. Now, this is this is fucking sticky, man. So the I guess this guy wasn't apparently on the witness list. So they argued about that for a while. During the trial, the prosecuting attorney informed the court and someone's someone's counsel that he intended to call Bill Gentry. That's the guy we just talked about. And what substance, the substance of Gentry's testimony would be. The court said they gave someone's counsel until the next day to talk to Gentry about his testimony.

He actually got a delay. This is my cousin Vinny when they call the FBI guy to talk about the analysis of the fire. And he goes, I'd like a recess to go over some of this facts and he goes i'd like a i'd like i'd like a you know a a a recess to go over some of this facts and blah blah blah and he says no that's what happened now except they gave him the recess to to talk to him uh they said there's no evidence at all that the prosecuting attorney knew of the witness's uh existence until he informed the court of himself in view of that and the fact that someone's counsel was given an opportunity to talk to the

witness. They let the, that stand. Okay. Now Ruth testifies. Okay. Complete opposite. She said,

I killed him. I cut his dick up. I did it all. Oh, I killed him. I fucked him. I killed him. I stabbed him.

All the bad shit is what I did. Yeah. That's what I did. Meanwhile, at her trial she said must have been a coincidence that he drove back to the same place we had fucked and then killed the guy that fucked me but must have ran over his nutsack and had him surgically explode right you know how that is so um otherwise your dick has perforated edges james your ball it comes right that that

seam will just pop. I'm telling you, boy. It's like a postage stamp. It comes right out. And I don't know if you know this, but over the course of your life, pressure builds up inside your balls. So once that seam pops, you'll find them 40, 50 yards away. I mean, they pop out like you wouldn't believe, boy. I mean, you can't find them.

That's why a swollen prostate is so dangerous. Oh, it's dangerous, boy. You blow out your scrotum. It'll come through your jeans. That's the problem. can't find that's why a swollen prostate is so dangerous oh it's dangerous boy you could blow out your you blow out your scrotum he'll come through your jeans that's the problem you know it'll come through your jeans and hurt somebody gotta be real careful about that um she contended she lied at her trial yeah to try to save herself when in reality it was all her all along she shot cooper following an argument after they had driven to a wooded area to have sexual relations unbelievable i did it all let's see if the jury buys it i'd love to know

they i have a feeling that either way uh they don't buy it with verdict but they might buy it with sentencing yeah they say verdict uh guilty of capital murder sir uh yeah they're like you're definitely involved in this. Then it comes up, here's the sentencing, and we have the jury can choose death, life without. There's a lot of options. They say, you, sir, may fuck off death by electric chair. Oh, my God. Boy, do we treat men different.

Yeah. Yeah, she is wow i mean i mean but the they their theory is that they during this trial this is the crazy thing this is what i don't understand why he got the death penalty because during this trial their whole contention is he did all this stuff not her right which is crazy there's no time in the timeline for it to happen he wasn't in the car with the boys said he wasn't there none of that shit happened yeah both those guys said none of this shit happened so they're treating him i think arkansas is doing it because he's wanted for murder in california uh the only reason that that man would be murdered is to break him out of

prison and that makes it i guess scummier to them that i guess of getting him out she did this for him yeah yeah i guess so and so i guess that makes it doubly worse i guess in mitigating too when you get a 22 year old girl with no criminal record right he's nine credits short of graduating from college and all this shit and then you get scumbag who's been on parole since he was 16 wanted for murder people yeah robs people wanted for murder you might go you know what he's a big you know yeah he might be a bigger dick yeah yeah so i guess maybe that's the reason why honestly yeah but the court the case is ridiculous though to like, the only evidence we're going to use is her testimony from her trial where she said he did it all. We'll forget all the other facts that exist.

If that's the case, then she should be let out if he did it all. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. It can't be both. But we've seen people with trials try to do this before. Well, if I did it, you couldn't have done it i don't disagree that he should probably be on trial for murder and be uh put to death uh yeah for the awful he has zero redeeming qualities it's yeah that's what i mean but if he goes she should go this is like charles manson killing trying to kill that one guy to get other people out of prison so you know because they'll

think it's them now if i write things it's stupid one gets life the other people out of prison. So, you know, cause they'll think it's them. Now, if I write things, it's stupid. One gets life. The other should get life. If one's getting death, they should both get death. I feel like that too. I feel like it's really hard to parse at this point. You're talking about them apart and especially,

especially a married couple who plotted everything together. It's very difficult. So, uh, yeah, death by electrocution there. So she appeals. Um,

she does not argue that there wasn't substantial evidence to support her conviction. That's obviously a dumb argument. I mean, let's be honest here. The knife with his fucking dick blood in it was in her purse. Like, sorry, dude. I want to look dumb when I talk to this judge. Yeah, I mean, Jesus, I don't want to sound like a total liar. So her arguments were mainly like procedural shit.

I want to sound like a total liar. So her arguments were mainly like procedural shit. Certain evidence was improperly admitted and procedural mistakes, prejudicing her right to a fair trial. And all that shit's important. First one, we'll go through very, very quickly here. Assignment of error in the in-custody statement of Ruth here. They said that it wasn't, she said it wasn't voluntary. They said that it was because she's on tape recording, making a voluntary statement. And I said, you know, often a factor in this is the ability of a defendant to understand their rights. But they say that's not a it's not a factor with Ruth. She completed years of college toward a psychology degree. She's obviously intelligent enough to understand what you have the right to remain silent and you can have a lawyer means despite her saying me and warren go on despite despite her english and grammar and whatever the fuck it doesn't matter

so um and she did go to school in arkansas in rural arkansas so we can't we can't blame her so there is no evidence here um that she suffers from any physical or mental infirmity. She was advised of her rights by every law enforcement department that had custody of her. She's handcuffed to a chair for a good part of the 25th of November and was not physically abused. She admitted she was not threatened but did complain an officer talked roughly to her once when she was on the phone telling her to get off the phone. Well, my fucking parents used to talk roughly to me if they wanted me off the phone. Sorry, you're in fucking jail for murder right now. They're probably not going to treat you with the hello, princess.

Can you please get off the phone? Talk nicer isn't an option. Like, don't beat me is good. But I guess talking, you can say anything in as mean a voice as you want. That's not against the law. They don't even call you by your name. They call you inmate. Yeah.

So she refused to talk to the authorities twice after whatever. Then she said she would. A great preponderance of the evidence reflects the law. The officer ceased questioning when she asked for a lawyer. Now, the letter is a big deal. She's saying that the search of the purse was not authorized as incidental to her arrest, nor as a routine policy inventory. They said a search of an individual's personal effects is incidental to an arrest if it is conducted shortly thereafter at a jail. The knife and the billfold were properly seized, according to the authorities.

They said the envelope is slightly different. Its contents and potential use as evidence, unlike the knife and billfold, were not readily visible. So you couldn't open up a drawer and saw it in there and went, oh, that's obviously relevant to a murder. You know what I mean? Open a zipper or some shit. That's an envelope. So they had to open an envelope here. They said, yeah, it wasn't readily visible.

The question is for the appeal is whether the search reasonable is required by the Fourth Amendment. Was the search reasonable as required by the Fourth Amendment? They said that it was not only reasonable and proper, but in the shed that the sheriff was fully justified in opening the letter. He might have been derelict in his duty if he had not, is what the appeals court said. This is the Supreme Court of Arkansas says this. Either as inventory hours after the arrest or as a search incident to the arrest, these items from her purse were properly seized

and properly admitted as evidence. They didn't inventory shit because they're morons, but they did read the fucking letter that admits her guilt. So they said that she argues about the the instructions to like the the instruct jury instructions and shit like that we won't argue about that but her uh her uh case is affirmed in the end so affirmed for her she is life without at this moment goodbye say it in now warren appeals as well he has several objections uh obviously first is that aggravating circumstances do not exist beyond a reasonable doubt and do not justify

the sentence of death the jury found five aggravating factors here they found that he had committed a prior felony with an element involving violence or creating a substantial risk of death or serious injury to another. He's shooting people all over the place. Indiscriminately. Indiscriminately shooting. Give me your money. Okay.

Pow. What the fuck? That's not part of the deal. In the commission of capital murder, he created a great risk of death to another person other than the victim. The murder was committed for the purpose of avoiding arrest or affecting an escape the murder was committed for monetary gain and the murder was committed to disrupt or hinder government function like kind of all of those are true so it's kind of rough here they found uh they said the wild runaway from jail here that someone participated in can't be isolated into different instances, as he argues.

The theft of the vehicle, the jail escape, and the events thereafter were all part of one plan. All of this is one ball of wax. It's not compartmentalized into separate things here. They said, if he were indeed an accomplice to the murder of Cooper, the jury could have found

that other people were threatened with death or serious injury. For example, the jailer was forced at gunpoint to empty the cells. That's part of it, the jury could have found that other people were threatened with death or serious injury. For example, the jailer was forced at gunpoint to empty the cells. Right. That's part of it, too. That's an aggravator. The evidence the murder was committed for monetary gain also was because his car and wallet were stolen. There you go.

The wallet contained $35. It's possible the jury might not have been justified in finding that the murder was committed both to affect an escape and to disrupt or hinder a government function because they seem to be redundant findings in this particular thing. So they say that his counsel argues that through comparative

review, the death sentence should be reduced to life in prison without parole because his co-defendant or not a co-defendant, but his murder partner here, that's what she got. So why should he get more is what he's saying. Whoever gets the best one, we both want it. Yeah.

Well, he's even talking about other cases. He said, we've done this in this case. In this case, it would also be appropriate to compare the sentence of Ruth Sumlin received with the sentence imposed on Warren Sumlin because both were charged with the convicted of the same crime. We compare the death sentence in this case to all the others that have been posed and reviewed since this one case that was precedent back in the day here. We also consider the fact that error may have been committed during the sentencing phase using this criteria we conclude the death penalty in this case ought to be reduced to life without parole okay so uh they do that they say during ruth's testimony the state attempted to impeach her by using testimony from her from her trial and some testimony included conversations

between ruth and Sumlin. So they're trying to say his Warren's trying to say that they had privilege, husband, wife privilege, and that anything overheard between them can't be put in to court because their husband and wife. That's what he's saying here. He says that, um,

for example, the state quoted some of Ruth Sumlin's prior testimony in which she said she was supposed to get J Y Cooper's car in any way that she could. This testimony, no doubt, doubt could have been considered by the jury in determining whether, you know, who was an accomplice or whatever. However, we cannot say this conversation was confidential since a witness testified to overhearing it. Yeah. It's one of those things where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy

in your home with your shades down. You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy on a street corner. Or a jail cell. That's what I'm saying. If you have your pants down in your house and someone takes a picture of you, that's invading your privacy.

If you're in your front lawn with your dick out and they take a picture of you, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy there you're in public so that's that's that's a law you know like literally with conversations all the time so um uh yeah they said certainly a wife can be called as a witness against her husband and be required to testify concerning what she heard saw and observed in relation to a criminal charge they said it was so uh they so interpreted the husband-wife privilege, excluding only confidential conversations about legal shit. So that's, a lot of people have asked us about that.

Can you make a wife testify against a husband, vice versa? So yeah, they said we cannot say that any of Ruth Sumlin's testimony breached the confidential privilege. He also argues insufficient evidence to sustain a conviction, even not just the sentence. He said the facts of the case, if there were substantial evidence that someone was an accomplice to the murder of Cooper, then the judgment of the jury must stand. It is irrelevant that Warren Sumlin did not pull the trigger, the trigger, the trigger, the trigger, Jimmy. If he aided, solicited or encouraged ruth sumlin in committing the murder so doesn't fucking matter um there's also some bullshit about jurors that they were objecting to either way commuted to

life without parole i'm fine with it so no more death sentence yeah i don't care about that it's fine with that so So they keep going. Once he gets that, he kind of cuts the appeals out. Well, yeah, he's still got to face murder in California, right? No. Apparently they can hold that, though, in case he ever did get out here. Then they can take him there and charge him. I think that's what they're doing, kind of holding it over his head so it's not time served in their state.

So that kind of goes on. And then finally, August of 1999, Warren has lung cancer and has been hospitalized for a little while. And he dies in the correctional department's diagnostic unit in Pine Bluff in 1999. So, yeah, that's getting diagnosed in the. Yeah, he's like 63 or something that's pretty young that sucks man that's tough so tooth 2008 ruth has her clemency appeal okay she's going for clemency now appeals are exhausted mind now it's just straight clemency yeah she wrote to the clemency board and what this is is you go to the board the

board votes if the board votes you down then you don't get shit if the board votes that to give you clemency then your case goes to the governor's desk and that's their decision so uh he this is what she wrote to the clemency board and i quote quote i would like to live my remaining years free if possible she said i am no threat to society. I am a changed person and can be a great asset outside. I would like to help remaining ill family members. So she is housed at the McPherson Unit for Women in Newport at this point in time. Both the prosecutor and the columbia county

sheriff's office both told the board they oppose clemency for her yeah okay now um so yeah they say she's convicted of uh you know capital murder blah blah blah so the arkansas board of parole votes three to one to recommend that her sentence is commuted wow they recommend to commute her sentence yeah gotta be charming i'm telling you she's gotta be adorable he said to commute her sentence to uh to 36 years in prison that's what they would commute her which would make her eligible for parole now she can get out so it finally goes to the governor's office halloween night 2008 i assume during the day i'm sure he's not working at night but uh governor mike bb don's brother yeah sure uh rejected the clemency request nope don't think so here um request rejected her clemency

request without comment even uh in the statement he said he intended to grant 10 pardons and 27 clemency requests uh but he also denied a whole shitload like 42 of them or whatever so took his dick off nope she's got one more chance jimmy yeah October 19th, 2021. So this fucking just happened, man. She has a request for commutation again of her life sentence of capital murder. She's before the Arkansas Parole Board this time, and they declare her request, quote, without merit.

No, thank you. Yep, there we go. and she is at this point ruth is both the oldest and longest serving columbia county female inmate in state custody right she is both of those things yeah she's been in jail for christ 45 years that's amazing yeah i can't believe there's not an older one in there but like we say didn't even have a jail before that. What are we talking about in Columbia? They weren't going to jail until then. No, she's the first one we put in, and we kept her. We're hanging on to her. She's like an antique at this point.

We're going to go ahead and hang on to her. We've just gotten used to having her around, you know. We got the very first Arkansas plow out in the yard. We got the very first Arkansas plow. We got this plowows impressed come on outside now come on y'all bring your cameras we're gonna show you this plow now you're gonna you're gonna be impressed by it we got old barbecue grills we got all kind of shit and we got the very first female inmate it'll be a sad day when she dies i'll tell you what we're gonna keep her till the

end though i'll tell you what we're gonna put her out with the plow when it's all over we're gonna stuff her and put her on top of it like a scarecrow i think you know just we got used to keep her till the end, though, I'll tell you what. We're going to put her out with the plow when it's all over. We're going to stuff her and put her on top of it like a scarecrow, I think. You know, just because we got used to having her around. You know what I'm saying? Just used to having her around these parts. Now, that, everybody, is Magnolia, Arkansas. What a story. That's a fucking crazy story.

Unbelievable. Some of the stories have more like kind of a back story and the peoples are—none of that matters. Think about the high noise here, the high, as Hunter Thompson said, the high white noise. Think about that, which is just the crazy, the crazy shit that's going on in this. The high points are insane. That's wow. How many women have we had that have like sexually eviscerated something like that? That doesn't, that's so rare in women.

It's not even funny. There's very few that you just you got no. We got it right. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's no there's no point where you just go. I don't know. You know, he's terrible.

Oh, yeah. She I want to feel for. But what she did was horrible. Like, that's what you did is serial killer shit. Did she do it to impress him that she's bad, too? I don't know. Or I don't know if she was so disgusted that she had to fuck him that she was like, take that motherfucker. But that would make sense.

But it's not. She did say that the sex was like, but he't rape her it wasn't like he forced she she came to him and said hey let's go in the woods yeah yeah so either way she didn't like it or maybe she did that because she was mad that's who knows i mean there's a lot of who we we're trying to figure this out like there's a direct correlation in this who cares where when ted bundy does it it has nothing to do with what they did or without you know it's not something that happened last week it's whatever's in their fucking brain yeah we have to look at her the same way you know i think it's just hard got it right got it right so there you go everybody if you enjoyed that story definitely uh get on whatever whatever app

you're listening on uh get on there and find if you can review and give us five stars please and thank you it does help drive us up the charts thank you for doing that also you can follow us on social media we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram catch up on all the the stuff here if you have cases that you'd like us to look at small town murder cases that you think qualify send them to us it is research at shut up and give me murder.com that is where you can do that and as well as that if you want to go to shut up and give me murder.com you're going to find all sorts of good stuff there all your merchandise all your everything like that live Live show tickets, most of all. Oh, boy. April 8th, we're in Pittsburgh.

We're coming down the turnpike. What is it, the Munn Hall? Yeah. Munn Hall, some shit theater. Whatever theater's in Munn Hall, we're in that one. It's just on the outskirts of town, too. Yeah, musical. Musical Arts Hall?

Some shit like that. It's right across the river on one of those 800 bridges they have there. Right by that. So come check us out there. There's some tickets left just a few though not a whole lot and then columbus the next night on april 9th even less tickets available for that those are going uh they're all they're almost gone anyway but now they're going even quicker as we get close to showtime so i'm not gonna come see the elderly ushers it'll

be lovely they're such nice old ladies and then we say fuck on stage all the time and they don't even react to it it's awesome we said we're very nice to them when we did our sound check i said ladies i'm going to apologize ahead of time for some of the things we're going to be saying we're nice boys i said we're actually nice boys we're just we're just we're nice we're just this is a show we're just we're just you you know, company. Always on the run. Bad company to them. We both have a six gun and a shotgun that we were born with, and you get the point. I won't deny.

Here we are. Yes, do that. Come to these live shows. Shut up and give me murder.com we can't wait we throw down at live shows so if you're on the fence don't be look on social media see what people say after live shows we it's not it's not a college lecture no it's a comedy show with a murder story in there somewhere it's awesome yeah no this ain't a ted talk this is a goddamn comedy show so enjoy that come see us patreon this week is so good patreon.com slash crime and sports and as you know us we give all this for free so if we're going to charge you money it's going to be amazing put it that way that's how we're that's how we throw down our patreon is worth it five dollars or more we'll get you

everything that we put out all your small town murder bonuses and crime and sports bonus episodes they do overlap a lot as far as what you'd be interested in a lot of good crossover there and this week no exception this week for crime and sports we're going to do one of the best April Fool's hoaxes

ever because it fooled everybody in the whole sports world especially Mets fans they had this thing where a guy they put a story out in sports illustrated that a scout found a man living in the mountain somewhere that throws 168 miles an hour and he only wears one shoe and the mets signed him and uh you know he's got a jersey there's a picture of him with lenny dykstra it's fucking insane and people bought it lock stock and barrel and then found out none of it was true it's fucking hilarious if there's a fan base you can dupe that wants to win that's the one it's

the mets it's them or the jets oh the jets what happened we got him we got Fuck, high five. They'd be high fiving, hugging each other. Fuck the Giants. Watch this. Yes. So there's that. And then for Small Town Murders, we're going to talk about something real interesting. We're going to talk about Diane Downs, who shot her three kids and herself as well in the arm and told the cops that some man that she pulled over on the side of the road to help did it and she was trying to kidnap her kids and shot her kids and her story is ridiculous and she tells it with such like i don't even know why you're asking me twice about this it's obvious like this is what happened and then she also was interested in the i-5 killer who randall woodfield she was also hooked up she found one of the women in prison with her

liked this woman's husband broke out of jail and went to this woman's husband's house oh my god it's a crazy story but we'll mainly talk about all of her interviews and what a just a fucking blatant liar she is it's wild no. No one believes her. She's on Oprah arguing with Ann Rule, the true crime writer, and people are just going, oh my God. The whole crowd's going,

oh, bullshit. Every time she talks, it's amazing. Check that out. It's so good. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Like we said, $5 or above will get you access to that

and everything else we put out. Whole back catalog. That's not important right now, though. Right now, I need to hear the people who have signed up for that. I need to hear the list of the finest goddamn people. Oh, PayPal also. Crimeandsports at gmail.com if you want to do that. Some of these people are in there, too.

That's why I had to say it. Jimmy, goddammit, hit me with that fantastically wonderful list this week's executive producers are michelle hansen cody levercy in michigan can't wait to see you bud uh franny in london jordan bennett colleen miller francesco danino uh kimberly altos altos uh altusi uh daniel blackwell and nicole o'clair thank you guys truly bottom of our hearts stuff. Holy shit. You get the point.

Amazing people. Truly. Other producers this week are the Twisted Mayor Moe Hare. Spalding Smales is in Caddyshack. That was the movie. There you go. There you go. Thank you.

God, I hate saying those words. Larry Butterfast is in surgery this week. Hang in there, Larry. It's over his foot, so I don't know what exactly he's doing. He might be getting a new foot. Let's hope you don't throw a clot, pal. Let's do it. Peyton Meadows, Olive Tits.

Me too. Thomas Smith, Jeff Shrewsbury, James Marder, Buck Russell, Tarnia Goodsell's success, and Rob Wilson's new glasses. Joey Pepperoni nips got a new mortgage. Brand new mortgage. He got a mortgage. brand new mortgage he got a shiny new smelly one uh katherine collado happy hour checking in in austin texas this week laura in portland her uh boyfriend yl has been sitting on uh a relationship with her for six years what the

fuck damn shit dude figure it out man marry the woman we'll do it for with stop with the free poon and and pay up pay up michelle salazar rabbi shitstein gwen gwendoline steel susanna platt janice the lease has come due davey loves gravy frank the south african bird washer dixon cider are you proud of yourself you happy now jud a bitch? You're happy now. Judy Squatley, Jess Finch's mom. Dawn is having a birthday. Happy birthday, Dawn. JJ's Bizarre Crime Adventures. Jason Bateman's. Nope, Batman's. Oh, that's Batman.

What the fuck? I wrote it. Bateman. Oh, Batman. Oh, it's Batmanman so when you see there's a new batman movie you're like oh there's a new bateman movie oh look jason bateman's got a new movie jason bateman's got a self-titled coming out good for him a little biopic jason batman's pocket Robin Forrest. That's what it is. God damn it, I love it. Shailene Moet, Alex Presley, Hannah Quinn, Jonathan Borden, Kevin Arrington, Carla Fowler, Tina Whiting, Andrea Quiroz, Christopher Sons, Roy Silves. Listen, he put Batman after Jason and expected me to say Batman

it's never happening every time it's Jason Bateman I can't breathe somebody shine the Bateman light who's my favorite shout out of all time he comes hey guys what's going on jobe god damn it jesus riley dahia uh martin allman audrey steph morgan smith maria and maria angel diaz janna pochop uh christian skeet That's an unfortunate one. Amy Lux, Jesse.

Nope, that's Jess Bruin. William with no last name. Harrison Schaefer, Patty McCleskey. Katrina, yes. Susan Wathen, Tyler Summers, Richard Wilkinson. Kim, the head bitch in charge. Gilbert Contreras, Demon Hand 55. Jennifer Lincoln, Liam Pringle.

Yep, Matt Hilligans. Jackson with no last name. Marissa with no last name, William L. Martin Jr., Monica Mars, TJT, Janelle Mazzara-Johnson, Spencer Morgan, Stephanie Dahlman, Carrie Countryman, Mark Albert. What? Wait, no. Wait, what's his name? Alberts. No, Marv. God damn it. Marv Albert.

It's Mark. All right. You mean Batman? Is that who you're talking about on there? Is that Batman chiming up or is it? Okay. Jen Wayne Jiren. Jen with no last name.

Hunter Johnson. Margaret Martins. Brian Bagg. Lynn Milroy. Corey Hockenberry. Farron Lammers. Kelsey Booth, Ab Will, Alexander McKeever Wilcoxon, Hillary Jorgensen, Michael Flanagan,

Fulsen912, Midnight with no last name, Aaron Finneran, Jen Laundery, Jennifer Diaz, Lucas Salas, Susie Burrows, Jedediah Marquise Wu, Cody Walker, Cindy Cummings, Brutal Buttslap, What Demi Bones, Lindbergh, Ashley Lundy, Tanya Simmons, Bailey Gerard, Emily Matthews, Kaylee Esper, Emily Nix, Alex Gage, Mike Mast, Joel Adams, Corey Celeste, Breton, Breton, Breton Bird, Herd, Jesus, Antagon Azrael, fucking what, Antjoney uh alina alina mallette matthew ryan greg hickson sean mcneil caroline britain colton bearden uh stephanie lynn janelle tamalea tamale josh wood dana dana jatch

the ear rape prevention hotline or christina gogan I'm James Bill Parmesan. Nice to meet you. The Ear Rape Prevention Hotline, Christina Gogan, Grant Carter, Georgia, The Athletic Bruco, from Athletic Bruco, Raymond Castellon, Paige Williams, Jason Pixler, Alisa Montoya Darling, Katie Gwynn, Travis James. What? Yes, James. Ryan Lally, Anthony Larson, Holly Bowen, Bad Attitude, Rebecca Feldman, T.C. Williams, Martina Martin, Sun V, DJ Tietzel, Shanna Graziano, Darby Davis, Adrian Solano, Ethan with no last name, Janae Young, Will with no last name. Raina Kennedy. Christy Aaron.

Kennedy. Oh, my God. You know, President Kennedy, he was one of my favorites. It was a real shame what happened to him. I'll tell you what. Really takes all the achievement from him when you say John F. Kennedy. John Kennedy. I don't think he's getting elected with Kennedy as his last name. I got to be honest. I don't think he's getting elected with Canetti as his last name. I got to be honest.

I don't think Monroe's fucking him either. I don't know about the Canetti brothers. They don't sound too hot anymore. I think the Canettis lose. They sound Italian at that point, like they're the Canickis from Greece. Christy Arrington, Ryan Wisenant, Shannonones kelly with no last name thomas b hoaring uh jesse wallace geneva reimer jake martin uh jody h susan stop madison walgamoth uh christian shambless uh louise lois lois sansborn donna smally lana brown deb tidwell shelby page

callie callie childress nicky Marie, Whitney Chandler, Aaron Duncan, Rowan with no last name, Big Puddin69, of course it's 69, Amanda Dominguez, Rory Hamilton, Daniel Doyle, Andy Newman, Josh McKeever, Patricia Bethune, Jonathan Gian, Heather Yeager, David Matthews, Jacob Hughes, Elizabeth Valen, Betsy Malding, Trevor Pentland, Carrie Lawrence, Fox Jackson, Akins, Eileen Woodington, Scoggins, Taylor Shane Williams, Amy Aronson, Janessa, Tyler Basir, Hayden Smith, Sawyer Chefs, Stuart Collings, Jacob Weiss, Justin Platys, Tommy Lee, probably not, Jessica Szczes, Julie, Julie, it's got to be, he loves drumming, listening to this bullshit.

You know he's going to do it. He's totally doing it. Julie Zager, Corey Young, S.B., Susan Gundlach, boy oh boy, Ezra Taha, Eric Barnes, Keely Urbanski, Anna Bandit, Julian Boylan, Diego Ramirez, and all of our patrons. You guys, especially the Kennettys, are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. So much for people who would never, ever remove our scrotal contents.

Thank you. We do appreciate that from you. So that said. I promise you, you don't want to see these. It's not necessary here they just they were just dipping in the toilet and fucking well jimmy was taking a dump you don't want that for the third time today there's toilet water remnants on them you don't want any part of that so uh that said everybody yeah if you want to uh find us on social media go to the website

shut up and give me murder.com or or just Google Small Town Murder Podcast Hosts. There's only two of us. If you find another one, let us know, because we're going to be pissed that they stole from us. So that's- Another, goddammit. Another one stole from us. You joined the list.

Sons of bitches. That said, thank you so much, everybody, for joining us, and we're going to keep coming back and back and back again. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.