Small Town Murder - #272 - STM Express - Groundhog For Breakfast - Elizabeth, West Virginia

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

This week, in Elizabeth, West Virginia, a series of events, that can only be described as pure madness, takes place in the back woods. A wild group of people, who eat groundhog, drink vodka, and get into fights, before noon. This all leads to a feud, which seemingly must be settled, today! As the rivals search around the small town, and accompanying hollow, tension builds, then explodes in a public confrontation, with bullets flying! One of the craziest stories you'll ever hear!Along the way, we find out that there are many ways to cook a groundhog, that vodka & grape drink shouldn't accompany a meal, and that when two people want nothing more than to kill each other, something bad is going to happen!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!STM Express every Friday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Small Town Murder. Yeah, well, hello.

Hey, hello. I'm James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. Yay, I'm Jimmy. Wow, he's a little off today, everybody, but that's okay. This is a new format. I'm a little weirded out. It's a new format we are going to do do and this is going to be a new weekly addition to the show uh we've had a lot of people going i'm all caught up on small town murder and crime and sports and i listen to the patreon i do all this fucking saturate you with it take an extra hour so we're gonna do this we're gonna do a short episode this will not be like a shorter

version of stories we've already done or anything like that. These are all new stories. There are some stories that we cover very quickly here at the top. There are some stories that we do while we're looking for stories. I'll be looking and looking. I'll find stories that are insane, but there's just not enough backstory. It wasn't covered in the media. Exactly. Not enough backstory, not enough of the outcome, not enough of everything to fill in a full show, but the facts of the case are so insane that they need to be told all right and that's what this is

going to be so enjoy buckle up very quickly uh just if you're listening to this the day it comes out we're in pittsburgh right now yeah uh we are freezing my balls off right now we're we're cold and we're wet april 8th and uh april 9th we are in columbus so come out and see that there's a few tickets left for both shows so do that i don't know if they're still left but as of it's very close you better it's close yeah especially columbus get in there so quickly also patreon.com slash crime and sports you get all your bonus stuff you want even more stuff we got it you get for five dollars or above you get crime and sports and small town murders bonus everything there for five bucks this week diane downs for small town murder and a great april fool's hoax for crime and sports so check it all out let's

get into this all right very quickly we're gonna not really do the whole town thing just gonna give you an overview of the town quick to let you know kind of what we're dealing with where are we this week we are in jimmy let's go on a trip shall we well first of all before we go on a trip i think it's time we should clear the lungs i think a little bit here and uh we should tell everybody we'll get used to it don't worry it's it's new format we get some new thing let's do it jimmy let's clear the old lungs and let's shout shut up and give me murder let's do it jimmy let's go on a trip shall we there we go now we're back to normal okay we're going to west virginia because if you're going to start a new you know branch of your series there's no better place the worst place whenever i look for a west virginia case i find 10 that's the thing about west virginia

it's almost like they made a state and they were like in the future everybody there's going to be two fine young gentlemen making a podcast now they're gonna need us yeah to be at our hillbilliest at all times all right now during murders during planning but now you're all gonna have to kill each other all you i'm sorry while under the influence of some kind of maybe homemade drugs something crazy really spruce it up a little bit the yankee but the the southern boy is gonna be his head's gonna be spinning too it's gonna just baffle them all that's what i mean we're competing with california everybody god damn crazy things going on out there that's what it is so this is elizabeth west virginia here this is northwestern west virginia in the panhandle-y part of this

place but they got class so they named the town after the queen well obviously yeah so now if we remember west virginia it looks like you place a chicken, like not a live chicken, a chicken facing forward there, and then you tilted it to the right. That's like at about two o'clock. That's West Virginia. This would be in the left leg of the chicken. Chicken. This is the left leg of the West Virginia chicken here, like real close to the border of Ohio, like two and a half hours away from Columbus where we'll be performing. Tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night. Population of this town, 819 people. And looking it up, too, there is not. Yeah, there's not like a town and then little towns all around. This is a town and then there's nothing around it for a while. 800 random ass people plop down in the center of nowhere. In a holler. That's what this is a town and then there's nothing around it for a while random ass people plop down in the center of nowhere in a holler that's what this is this is some hot this is holler and mountain action and if you're if it weren't for the show i'd have no idea why hollers exist and

what the shit's all about i'm so thankful for this if you're new and not from the u.s or from part of the u.s that uses the letters correctly uh holler is a hollow which is a place between a small valley is what they're getting at there a tiny valley and then they just call it a holler so to the point where you everyone calls it hollers now this population here has gone down 30 since 2000 so wow Wow. That's flight, man. They're fleeing this time. There wasn't many people to begin with. It's really coming apart.

Unemployment rate is high. It's almost 10% here, Jimmy. Oh, good Lord. It's like 3% in the rest of the country. It's almost 10% here. That's dangerous. This story is like the wild and wonderful whites of West Virginia would have looked at these

people and went they're trash don't go near them now don't let your kids hang out with them people because they're trash and then they just rattle the pills in their backyard yeah don't do don't let their kids shoot dawn dish detergent uh bottles out in the backyard at all the median household income here jimmy okay keep in mind fifty seven and a half thousand the rest of the country nineteen thousand nine hundred seventy three dollars that's the median household income oh my god that is fifty percent of the people here fifty percent make twenty thousand dollars or less a year that What? How do you do it? Unfathomable.

There's nothing here. There's literally, there's not anything here. There's no employment. There's not a lot of places to go. It's the middle of nowhere. That's how you survive? Well, yeah. There's some, during, in this episode, people are eating some things that you're going to

definitely raise your eyebrows at and go, that's food? Okay. It's an odd thing here. Not to, people are poor. They got to hunt for whatever they can and eat and go for it. This is just like, I don't know what's going on here. Like they haven't, it's almost like it's this little area is like 50 years behind the rest of the country. It's weird.

Like they're going to put in telephone lines soon one of these just they just came through with them telegraphs and this was like 73 1973 not 18 they get homing chickens yeah well i'm gonna send my pigeons so uh the yeah cost of living here though is also low uh it's a 74 out of 100 being regular or average, but the median home cost is super low. Median home cost here, $53,500. Still too much, right? If you're making $19,000 a year, I guess that's tough, but yeah, that's way less than the national average, obviously. And then quick overview of it, and then we'll get right to the murder. From the website, this tells you kind of what this town's all about.

And this is currently, this this tells you kind of what this town's all about and this is currently this isn't a website from 19 this is right on the cover of elizabethwestvirginia.com you look it up there it is it says welcome to the town of elizabeth west virginia and then under it it says welcome to the official website of the town of elizabeth exclamation point yeah this website is intended to provide you with an overview of our town's government and the unique opportunities our town has to offer your household median incomes less than 20 grand a year. What's your unique opportunity to be able to eat roadkill? Yeah. For survival. Like that's not a unique cycle dental balls on these people. These the you know, whatever whoever's making the website, please take the time to explore our site and let us know how we can better serve our community through this medium. This sounds like it's from the first website ever written. We would like to thank the students of Wirt County High School, the West Virginia Municipal League and the Community Connect Foundation, the Office of Technology and West Virginia Interactive for making this website a reality. technology and west virginia interactive for making this website a reality we hope that you continue to check in with us as we strive to make this website a useful tool for everyone who has an interest in the town of elizabeth they've heard about web so they just found out about the internet yeah and they had to get the high school kids to make it to show because yeah so can i touch it yeah we're all where now how do you hold on a minute

what if i want to go in the bathroom with it can i put it under my arm can i take it with me can i take it in there to poop no shit well i can okay well that's good it's on my phone they got floating computers now how is it on my phone when i dial a nine it takes it's got to go tick tick tick tick all the way back to the thing i don't get how yeah i don't understand how i can touch things yeah i don't want oh is that a lady's butthole uh-oh so that said let's talk about an insane murder okay uh this is 1980 here uh we're talking about in early 1980 which as you can imagine how advanced they were back then you know in this area i'm sure it was it felt like the depression probably people with cigarettes rolled up in their shirt sleeves and the like so uh there's a man named austin wayne

ledsome led some and uh he met a guy in in you know, like March ish of 1980, a guy he met called Robert Lilly. Yeah. OK. Now they met at a place called Kyle's Tavern in Elizabeth. And Lilly, that's not really his name, though. Robert Lilly. He just I don't know where he got Lilly from. Yeah. Just picked it. But he's his real name is Robert Andrew Williams. Oh, there you go. So we got Austin Wayne L real name is Robert Andrew Williams. There you go. So we got Austin Wayne Leadsom, Robert Andrew Williams. Now, both Leadsom and Lilly completely unemployed.

Obviously, it almost goes without saying if they're hanging out at the tavern in Elizabeth at this point after we gave you the town stuff here. They became friends, I guess, based on their mutual lack of employment. I don know yeah what do you do all day what do you do all day if you're both there at noon at the tavern i guess you know why not uh they became friends and agreed to start a business venture together let's do it what do you think the business venture is jimmy well i'll give you a car wash you think maybe a side of the road car wash? We'll sell oranges. Lemonade stands? I got lawnmowers.

We can do some land. No, no, no. Their, quote, business here is that they agreed to work together to collect junk and haul it to Parkersburg to sell. Okay. So they're sca the savage together. Their big business is bubbles from the wire. His same kind of moves is what he's doing there. You got a shopping cart?

I got energy. Let's go. There you go. And that old house has some copper piping in it. Let's get it out. So I love how the court document, I had to put this right from the court document, quote,

they engaged in this business pursuit for the next two or three days stop calling it that they don't have an olc business pursuit no you could call it they engaged in this attempt for anything you want except business pursuit that sounds like they went down to the town and filed paperwork and they were worried about like who's the stock division of stocks you got a tax id number all that shit one of us is gonna have to we have to put somebody down as a managing partner like none of that's happening these are two drunks in the pickup truck oh what are we what are hold on i need my roles clearly defined okay i can't work i can't work like this co-managing partners of of is that is that metal? We can recycle it. He gets all mad.

I can't work like this. And he loosens his tie as he walks away. He's very upset. Co-managing partners is, is that metal? I hope that's metal. Pick it up. See how heavy it is. Oh, that's metal.

It's a long name. We understand. But we say it all the time so we can remember it very easily now. And I understand that scrapyards probably have LLCs and shit like that, but they own land and they hold the scrap there. That's a business. These guys don't own shit. That is a business.

Yeah, that's a business. They buy and sell shit and melt it down, but they do stuff. These guys' business is being customers of a scrap yard. Yeah. If you've ever read The Corner, which is David Simon who wrote Homicide, it's his book, The Corner. It's about these people who are, the whole neighborhood and all these the old school to steal a big furnace pipe that weighs 40 pounds. And it's all to take it to the scrapyard to make $20 to get shit for the day. I got an LLC to be a customer of a scrapyard.

Yeah. To stand on a line with a shopping cart. Yeah. To stand on a line with a shopping cart. And it hurts to laugh at their misfortune and how fucking backward their life is at this moment. But you got to think they probably did this to themselves. This is the thing. Yeah.

We're not. These aren't like the most upstanding, trying your hardest, trying to. These people, when we get into the store, you're going to go, oh, these are all terrible people. So making fun of them now, you might go, oh, that's mean. You're kind of punching down. No, we're not. I'm telling you. First of all, we were just as trash as anybody for always. But when you hear what these people are like, you go, yeah, this isn't a, this isn't't like a societal problem this is these people like to drink in the morning problem that's the issue

so not even coffee just straight up no not an irish coffee we're talking just taking so uh led some here austin wayne led some he spends fr spends Friday night, June the 6th, at Lily's house. Yeah. We're going to call him Lily, even though he's Robert Andrew Williams. He knows him as Lily, so we'll stop there. Lily's house, which is off Oxbow Road in Ritchie County, which is nearby here, but not where the murder takes place. So the next morning, after a breakfast of groundhog, I shit you not, Jimmy. This is an official court document

of the state of West Virginia, which I don't know how official that would ever be. Might have been made on the back of a Waffle House menu with crayons, but still, even even that it's an official i really want to know how that's prepared is that groundhog is that like ground groundhog tacos for breakfast too that's the other thing that's a it seems like is it eggs and groundhog groundhog and grits. That's what I mean. Ground and grits, they call it down there. Is it ground and grits? What are we getting?

What are we eating? Do you just take the groundhog, put it in a bowl, and pour milk over it? I don't know. And there's other animals around, right? How the fuck do you cook a groundhog? Oh, no. I assume you got to take whatever that is on the fur or something off of it. Do you just like jab a stick through it and hold it over a fire?

Like a marshmallow? Like a hot dog when you're camping? Maybe. Does it go in a bun? Maybe this guy's an excellent butcher. Maybe he like fillets it out and does loins and like makes bacon strips out of it that's it yeah he's got the pink he's got the pink salt and he's fucking he throws it from up top like gordon ramsay

how do you cook a groundhog i want to know if anybody knows you need to make a cooking show groundhogs with so and so cook west virginia holler cuisine and i need to know how a fucking groundhog is prepared and for breakfast too for dinner you might prepare it one way but you don't want to do that for breakfast it's a different preparation for breakfast obviously you want it to be if you went to a friend's house and they said they were having dinner for you and you showed up and there's a is it a recognizable groundhog on the table sure that's what i mean is it just cooked on a stick or is it i'd assume you'd have to have like like a little olive in its mouth because it's not it's

not big enough for an apple yeah i uh this wow i't even, I'm having a hard time getting past it after a breakfast of groundhog. Like, the court documents shouldn't have just, they really should have got deeper into that. To explain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That should have been a side note. Rosemary, rosemary groundhog. A fennel maybe? Maybe you cook it like lamb i don't know a little fennel maybe a little mint when you're eating it like an old school i don't know how you'd cook fucking

groundhog i really don't put tzatziki on it maybe i'm thinking you would slice it thin yeah and then fry it so it would be probably yeah it would be the least reprehensible i would imagine it depends i guess the punks atani is pretty fucking big but how big do you yeah how big it's a lot of fur i don't know what's under that if we shaved a groundhog what's it look like you know what i mean i've never seen a shaved groundhog somebody catch a groundhog shave that fucker motherfucker let it grow back but yeah keep them so gross don't send them send them out in the woods to die while fucking shaved you got to keep them and take care of them until it grows back

this is a long assignment we're giving you right now this isn't like an overnight thing that pioneer woman's eating a groundhog. She's had a groundhog before. Definitely. She's like, it tastes like chicken. Chicken. All the dark meat of the chicken. The chicken. All right.

I'm sorry. It's a groundhog for breakfast. What are you talking about? How do you do it? This isn't something you just go. Then they had groundhog for breakfast. Then they went out about? How do you do it? This isn't something you just go, then they had groundhog for breakfast, then they went out here. Imagine if we just stopped and went past that.

Just kept going like that's normal? Just kept going, yeah. I can't. As comedians, we can't hear that people ate groundhog for breakfast and not go, hold on a minute. Pause. Can you tell me more about that story?

How'd you do it? That's fascinating. I need to fascinating i need so many questions what goes with it i i'd love to know and we know that people eat possum a lot but just groundhog we've never heard so uh i guess at this point lily and ledsome the team of lily and ledsome which sounds like a bad cop show from the 80s lily and ledsome they have groundhog for breakfast and then solve the case. I'll go with groundhog burps. Great. They discussed hauling a load of junk to Parkersburg. That's depressing.

Let's talk about hauling junk while eating our groundhog for breakfast. It's a depressing way to start the day. But then they decided rather than do even this business venture here i mean you know yeah we've been doing it for two or three days we're really been pushing we've been pushing the envelope here so let's take a break instead today you're gonna take a day off let's take a day off and go fishing let's do that yeah so they're they said let's go fishing let's first of all but probably maybe they need the fish if they're making dinner it sounds like yeah that's i hope

so so they got their fishing poles put them in lily's truck and drove out of the hollow because they're in a they're in a holler here so on the way of course they met a man named red yeah at a cabin not far down the road from lily's house. Everybody lives in cabins back in the holler, too. Think about it. These roads aren't that good. But there's 12 dudes of those 900 named Red, too. Oh, there's a lot of Red. Which Red is this?

Is this Boneholler Red or Groundhog for Breakfast Red? Which one are we talking about? Oh, Groundhog for Breakfast Red. I know him. So they meet Red, and they stop to chat with Red, as one does when you pass Red's cabin. You stop and chat with him. It's part of the whole deal. And Red invites them, hey, do you want a sip of this?

And hands them a gallon milk jug. Now, you'd think, hey, it's the morning. I mean, does milk go with Groundhog? Well, it doesn't matter because there's no milk in the milk jug. Of course not. Of course not. There is a purple mixture in there, which is grape juice and vodka in a milk jug. Out of a milk jug in the morning.

In the morning. That's what I mean. When we're saying, you know, a lot of this is self-inflicted. If you're drinking vodka and grape juice out of a milk jug in the morning in your front yard, you're not going to get a lot done that day. I'm sorry. You're just not. You're just not going to get a lot done that day. I'm sorry.

The things that they've put inside their bodies pre-9 a.m. is crazy. The chances that you're going to be a valued and productive member of society are slim to none at this point. So, of course, they go, why, sure. I can't turn down grape juice and vodka from a milk jug from a man named Red. I'm thirsty from the groundhog. Welch's and vodka. Wow. Thirsty from the groundhog is like hungry like the wolf.

It's a similar situation you end up imagine it's salty it probably does make you fucking thirsty i'm thinking it is you got to salt it up to get that whatever flavor out i would imagine wood woodland flavor so um so they're drinking vodka and grape juice out of a milk jug from with red uh they drank all the liquor everybody they sat around passing it around all gone so they figure at this point you're good and buzzed it's time to keep fishing but no they're like well now we're out of booze shit so they drove to elizabeth to get more booze. Okay.

Obviously. Because Elizabeth is the closest town to them. It's right there. So they return to Oxbow Road where they found a party in progress at a neighbor's house. What is happening around here? It is the morning. This place sounds great. I'm picturing.

I get it that it's stereotypical. but let's look at what we've heard so far yeah this party there's a guy blowing on a jug in this there's a overalls no shirt no shoes while people like fucking somebody's dancing two spoons on their legs that's all i see it's like the the old mountain duet that's what i see like that guy's on the porch i don't know what's going on so there's a party so um they decide well shit let's party down it's you know why not um it's a little while later uh a guy uh named uh denver ash arrives okay a guy named denver ash and uh denver ash is jesus christ denver ash sounds like a guitarist for fucking tool this is just insanity i don't even know how to describe what's going on here so denver brown hogs denver ash i can't with this fucking thing i really can't

yeah this place is nuts go on please this is crazy so with denver ash because you know he's got to have a a guy named denver ash doesn't come alone obviously that's a real he has denver ash this is not even with an e ash what year is this uh 1980 this is that's the most progressive like today uh every every uh suburban white woman would name their kid that but some mountain town boise or you know it's our girl boise and our boy denver since you'd have you know it would be that and our other oh this is our other daughter aspen she's 16 she just got her license she came home from ballet class or some shit i don't know we already picked the name for the baby in my belly this is breckenridge you may be oh absolutely breckenridge magnolia is his name full name so with denver comes nelson clark So with Denver comes Nelson Clark Ashcraft. Yeah.

Ashcraft is his name. So Nelson Clark Ashcraft. Anyway, Ashcraft and Denver Ash. So Ash and Ashcraft show up. This is confusing. And they were drinking and apparently fucked up. They're all drunk already, obviously. Why not?

It's 10 a.m. Let's get hammered. So Denver ash was vomiting he's throwing up and all this type of shit ash craft ash craft purple vomit no he didn't he wasn't there for the for the for the vodka that that was lillian welch's vodka party yeah that was lillian led some that had the uh you know welch's grape and vodka out of a milk jug deal this is just the new party and people are already so hammered they're a different yeah a different party where strangers more people so everyone in this holler is shit-faced by noon is what's going on here yeah and then you go how come the median household income is nineteen

thousand dollars a year because everyone's falling down drunk before noon. That's why. Because Ashcraft, Nelson Clark Ashcraft, fell down from being drunk. Oh, my God. Missed a wall and meant to lean on a wall and fell down. So, Leadsom, our guy here from the video, Leadsom picks him up. So, helps him up. So, Ash and Ashcraft stay at the party for a while then drive off in ashcraft's

truck he's so drunk he can't stand he's so drunk he fell over and his buddy's puking all over the place and they're like well time to drive home now and they just we've had enough time to go home not even a thought isn't that fascinating we've had had enough. There's been consequences to our behavior. We should get in the car and go home. Well, let me find my keys. That's your reaction. I'll get out of your hair. Hope I got enough gas to get home.

All right. My groundhog's getting cold, my wife just called. So about five minutes later, after they had left uh lily and ledsome are so we have ash and ash craft and lily and ledsome this is these are amazing pairings this is great they leave the party to take uh red back to his cabin yes you know red's over there so they drop red off lily and ledsome then say well let's go on fishing now they took like a two hour three hour detour from let's eat groundhog let's go fishing hold on purple drink hold on fucking party time uh okay so i've helped drunks up now i'm ready to catch some walleye here we go so they do that

but first they decide that we got to stop at smitty's Tavern in McFarland to pick up a little more beer while we're fishing. We're not drunk enough. Purple drink. You're fine. Purple drink and whatever was at this party. You'll be all right. You're good. Whatever buzz you've maintained this far.

So you want to hear it get weirder? Yeah. Want to hear about the next party? Because the next party is way different. They go butterfly picking for appetizers? You'll never guess this party. Yeah, they go grub hunting, it's called. They just get quail and nip the heads off them with their teeth.

And just eat the heads only. That's it. They throw the rest out. They toss the heads where all the vitamins are mama told me brains are full of iron that's that's where all the good vitamins are the protein keeps you going spit the beak out crunch up the rest you don't need that body that's just meat i can get meat from a groundhog i don't need it from a from a quail now they they get to smitty's tavern here lily and lead whatever the fuck led some like almost called

them lead better lily and lead better led some and lily uh they get to the part to the tavern when they get there before they get into the tent they can't go anywhere without running into people drinking yeah when they get there there's a group of people in the they get into the tavern, they can't go anywhere without running into people drinking. When they get there, there's a group of people in the parking lot of the tavern sitting under a tree talking and drinking. It's a bar parking lot. Yeah. You got the indoors. You can go in there and do this.

Nope. We'll do it out here. We'll do it right out here. So this is insane. The group included Ashcroft and Ash. Oh, they pop by too. Yeah, they're drinking there too. And also a young woman named Glenda Roush. R-O-U-S-H.

Because you got, you know, obviously this is going to be catnip for ladies. Drinking under a tree in a tavern parking lot at noon is going to be obviously how you get all the ladies in. Only the hottest guys do it. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop

in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So Lily from his truck here, he calls Roush over. Come here, little sweet honey. Hey there, sugar. Come on over here, sweet thing.

Calls her over to the truck window and offers her a drink of the vodka and grape juice mixture, which they've reconstituted and is now, they didn't have have it they left the milk jug with red obviously but this is in a boone's farm tickle pink wine bottle perfect so they have take they have poured from a milk jug into a formerly used boone's farm bottle which new boone's farm is gross enough and then taking it with the bottom of that then offered it to a lady no so yeah buy you a drink dear he's a real fucking charmer this guy let me

tell you something he's charming the wow this is this guy is something this says pink drink and it is purple so it is obvious that you have done doctored this. And you're just taking drinks from strangers and trucks. So she takes a drink. Yeah. Sure. Why not? I'm in the parking lot drinking anyway.

Might as well. Then she goes inside the tavern. So Lillian led some. They exit the truck and approach the team of Ash and Ashcraft. So Lillian led some Ash exit the truck and approach the team of ash and ash craft so lily and led some ash and ash craft lily uh and ash and ash craft spoke cordially for a few minutes here until ash craft accused lily out of the blue yeah of putting acid in a spring nearby what if love off the grid you know springs now okay if you've watched love off the grid the charlie What? thing so they all try to keep it right he's saying you put acid in a spring tried to fuck everybody

so lily said no i didn't yeah um not at all and he tells ashcraft that i that he quote didn't want no trouble at that point so i didn't you're drunk i picked you up from falling earlier at that point you weren't mad at me for poisoning a spring but But at this point, you're angry an hour later. Spring spike and so and so. So rather than leave, Lily sends Leadsom. Why don't you go into the tavern and buy some beer? Some booze ought to put this fire out. Let's get some road sodas.

We'll calm everybody down. We will fix this with alcohol. Then Denver Ash, while Leadsom's inside, Denver Ash jumps in and accuses Lily of, quote, talking around town about me. Oh. So they said, you poisoned, you put acid in a spring, and my friend says you've been talking around town about him. So let's get into this. Okay. Lily replied, quote, you guys have got a big mouth and

nothing to back it up with oh boy this is i mean you don't want to fight a man who's at ground fog for breakfast that's hunger we we talk a lot about in a boxing episode of crime and sports how the boxers have to be hungry yeah some you know ceo's kid isn't going to be a great professional boxer you have to be literally hungry like i need this so i can eat to be a great boxer and you don't fight a man who had groundhog for breakfast you just don't i'm sorry he's that man is hungry and you're interrupting the beer run he's doing on the way to get dinner so don't fuck with this man i'd leave him alone if i'm these guys if i'm so curious i'm laughing so hard i'm snorting i want i want the recipe i gotta know the

preparation oh he just microwaved it didn't he they don't have a microwave i'm telling this is a shopping cart with a sterno thing under it they're like it puts good marks on it with the cart that they stole from the piggly wiggly which by the way is nearby there's a piggly wiggly so this is crazy he had to say it right you want to fuck with me i had groundhog for breakfast i got a belly full of groundhog and purple drag. I'm the man you don't want to mess with. I'm ready for you, boy.

I have friends whose names are just colors. Do you understand? Don't mess with me. Ah! Oh, God. i've got to wipe the tears from my eyes to read here the colors eating groundhog for breakfast that is a specific man it applies to like just guy. The entire population. Okay.

So, well, I guess not. This scene is insane. It's crazy. This is all in one morning. You can't write this. This is insane. People sometimes will say, like, did you make some of that up? No. How? No. How are you going to get to Groundhog for breakfast? write this this is insane people sometimes will say like did you make some of that up no

how do you get to groundhog for breakfast what am i stephen king i don't have that good god so ledsome is inside the tavern purchasing beer while all this is going on outside um he ran to the door to see uh ashcraft shooting at lily with a 22 pistol oh my god yeah lily was at that moment holding his leg the back of his leg and yelling back over his shoulder said quote a man who shoots me in the back is a dirty son of a bitch which you can't argue with that you really can't he's a very practical man brown hog for breakfast dirty son of a bitch shoots me in the back he's very practical i'm hungry i'll go fishing he's just practical so now the gun runs out of ammo i don't know if this wasn't a fully

couple of shots in there the gun runs out of ammo. So Lily then fucking limps back over there, holding his leg, shot with a.22 in the leg, and twists the gun out of Ashcraft's hand. Give me that gun, you son of a bitch. Holy shit. Don't mess with a man who had possum for breakfast or who had crown hog for breakfast. Just don't do it.

He's a bad man. When someone shoots you, you don't go, a guy who will do that's a dirty son of a bitch you try to get away he's shooting at me fucking run duck um so he twists it out of his hands throws ashcraft to the ground and beats him about the head and face with his own gun man absolutely with a bleeding gunshot wound he's just beating him with his own gun keep in mind this guy was so drunk he couldn't stand at the last party so his aim isn't very good and then he's a mess anyway so these are just i would pay to watch this scene happen like in a movie i'd pay to watch it i don't want to see real people yeah i want this scene to play out in a movie because I'll watch it

over and over and over again so Ash Denver Ash then comes in and tries to help Ashcraft so Lily hits him with the gun knocks him out too awesome fuck you pretty boy name at this

point Glenda Roush is outside the tavern she takes the gun away from lily like what are you doing grabs it stop that yeah he grabs it back from her give me that so lily and ledsome then get back in their truck to leave well that's done with that as lily was starting the truck ashcraft gets up off the ground and says quote if you come up on the hill to not, you're a dead man. What? With a bleeding head wound. Keep in mind, Lily is shot in the leg.

Right. And Ash just did it. Yeah. He's threatening him. So Lily and Lettsum return to Lily's house. Fishing is off now, by the way. This is where we're plan aborted. At least there's one logical thought to be had today.

Yeah. Well, they take his 22 pistol with them, too. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. They take Ashgrass pistol. Yeah. They go back to Lily's house to look for ammo for said pistol that they just took because

it's empty. Okay. Enter Lily's girlfriend. The man who eats groundhog for breakfast, then has purple drink and fights in taverns under trees before noon has a girlfriend, everybody. So I'm telling you, when they say there's someone for everyone, there is someone for everyone. Be patient. Be patient. Candace Rohe enters the fray here.

She's home when they arrive. Lily appears angry, obviously, and he told Rohe, Candace here, that that goddamn Ashcraft shot me. And he removes his pants to show her a gunshot wound in his right ass cheek. Right in the ass. So now he's got his pants down with his ass out with a guy this couldn't be more comical if mel brooks wrote it this is ridiculous so lily rummages through the house and finds one shell for the pistol he finds one bullet i know that thing's around here somewhere which he puts in the gun and then shoots the gun into a china cabinet for some reason.

In the house? In the house. Puts it in there. Pow. Shoots the china cabinet because he's mad at someone else. So Lily tells Candace that he's going to, quote, he's going to go get that son of a bitch Ashcraft. And that he was, quote, tired of Ashcraft trying to run me off this hill. Trying to run him off the hill, Jimmy.

We can't have that. You can't run a man off his own hill. This is ridiculous. God forbid. So after Lillian led some left in the truck again, Candace phones Glenn Johnson, who lived down the hill from both Lily and Ashcraft, because they both live up on this hill. This is a mess. And told him to, quote, get Ashcraft out of there because Lily's coming to kill him.

He's coming to shoot him up with what? I don't know, because he found a bullet and shot it into the China cabinet. He's already wasted all of our ammo that consisted of one round. Yeah. So they get to someone's house. Lily and Ledson continue to search for more bullets for the pistol. Okay. There's just anybody got.22s?

There's a store somewhere by, right? They drive to Ernie's Quaker State on Route 47. They pulled into the parking lot. Just as Ledson was starting to get out of the truck ashcraft and ash pulled in well for the love of christ they're at ernie's too they're running into each other all over the place i don't think there's a lot of places to get things around here this town might be too small i think it might be a little small when they saw them lily pulls out the unloaded pistol and points it at ashcraft yeah and he pulls the trigger several times. It's an empty gun.

Keep in mind, everyone's had a lot of booze already in the day. So Ashcraft and Ash back their truck out of the parking lot and leave the station. Ash is driving. Oh no, it's unloaded.

Watch out. Leadsome then enters the gas station to buy shells for the pistol. But then he finds out, oh, it's a gas station. They don't sell fucking ammunition here.

It's a Quaker state station. They don't have ammunition at the quaker state station does that fire 10w30 y'all got bullets no yeah you can oil up your gun so it gets even more interesting so as lily andedsom are driving down Route 47, they come upon Ashcraft and Ash driving slowly in front of them. They can't get away from these people. Ash begins weaving the truck from one lane to the other to prevent them from passing. He's doing that shit.

Lily tells Ledsom to hang on and guns it. So he fucking guns the gas and rams the truck in the rear end. Yeah, this is crazy. This is a movie. I thought you were going to say So he fucking guns the gas and rams the truck in the rear end. Oh, shit! Yeah. This is crazy. This is a movie.

I thought you were going to say, punches it to pass him. No, no, no, no. Goes right up their ass. I thought he was going to go in the weeds around them. No, pow. Dude, people have lived differently in this area, man. They're just living differently. Hang on. Pow.

Does that. Hang on. I don't give a fuck about this truck. hang on pow does that i don't give a fuck about this truck the collision knocks ashcraft's truck around in the road slid it sideways and off into the gravel on the side like a cop yeah so ash gains control of the truck and starts back up oxbow road but then gets stuck in the mud jesus christ what a day lily's truck is fucked up from the collision, obviously, and he and Ledson pull over to the side of the road. When they pull over, they see Ashcraft and Ash stuck in the mud. So Lily gets out of his truck and runs up the road after them.

Before he could catch them, though, Ashcraft and Ash got in the truck, got unstuck from the mud, and drove off. Lily then runs back to his truck, get in, get in, get in, hops in the truck, and where Ledson is holding the hood, which is all fucked up, they pull the hood off, because it's like half off, and throw it over the hill. They just frisbeed the thing. He could have scrapped that. Nope. that's what i mean he's he knows the value of a hood frisbees the hood and gets back in the truck the truck starts after some difficulty and they head toward mccully's store to look for shells for the pistol

okay on the way to this yeah on the way to the store he had to stop to adjust the fan on his truck to stop it from hitting the radiator. Yeah. Yeah. Once at the McCulley's, Lily sent Ledsom in to see if they had any shells while he put some water in the radiator, which had been damaged, obviously, because it's leaking. So you just pour more in and it's going to stay. Gonna stay. Leadsome knew that Lily was angry and told the clerk at the store, quote, if you do not, quote, if you do got any shells, do not sell them to Bob Lily because someone might get hurt. Okay.

So Lily then drives to the house of a friend who thought that maybe they have some 22 shells. They went inside and Leadsome retrieved some water to put in radiator again, because it's going to be every five minutes. Yeah, you need a new radiator, sir. So score, Lily comes out with a box of 22 hollow point shells. Terrific. He loads the pistol and shot around into a tree. He just loves to test the gun, make sure it's working. Make sure it keeps working, yeah.

Reloaded the gun, and they left in the truck. In the meantime, Ash and Ashcraft were seen back at Smitty's tavern the scene of the original fucking melee the uh ashcraft now has an automatic now has an ar-15 is what he's got he now has a fucking automatic you know like an automatic military style deal not automatic but semi-automatic and whatever so when when asked by a friend, what are you doing with the rifle? He said, quote, I'm going to shoot them goddamn motherfucking sons of bitches. That's the quote from like eight people who heard that. These goddamn motherfucking sons of bitches.

He then went in the door of the tavern, Ashcraft, with the gun presumably. With a rifle. Jesus Christ. Glenda Roush at this point is across the door of the tavern, Ashcraft, with the gun, presumably. With a rifle. Jesus Christ. Glenda Roush, at this point, is across the street from the tavern in the parking lot of McFarland's Market, talking with some friends. Everybody's just hanging out in parking lots in this town. She saw Ashcraft leave the front steps of the tavern, carrying the rifle.

He went into a tavern with a rifle, with a fucking assault rifle. He can't do that. Then walked across the road to get into his truck where Ash was waiting. One of Roush's girlfriends, Glenda's girlfriends, joked with Ashcraft that it was her birthday and he, quote,

ought to get rid of that old gun so we could all have a party. Okay. So he puts the rifle behind the seat of the truck and puts an ammunition, puts a clip in the glove box, right?

Puts the magazine in the glove compartment. So, uh, Ashcraft is now quote in somewhat of a better mood apparently and agreed that Ashcraft, Ash and Glenda Roush would go to Ash's house to have a drink and fix something neat. You know what?

I got some fresh possum back there. I have an aardvark that i've been saving for a special occasion it is my birthday and wouldn't you know what i just hit a raccoon i just hit one so they headed down the road toward oxbow road when they passed the quaker state service station they saw lily's truck sitting outside someone commented there's your buddy but ash was driving and he didn't stop so ash craft ash and Glenda continued driving on Route 47, turned on the Oxbow Road and then up the hill next to Glenn Johnson's cabin on a private road leading to Lily's cabin. So this is way the fuck back there. They blocked the road, stopped.

And, you know, there's no it's a one lane dirt road. Immediately, right when they stopped stopped tear an ass in there lily and led some pull in in their truck there and uh they pull behind led some said that the engine in lily's truck died when they pulled into the road that's it it died right then which is believable because they have to put water in it every five minutes glenda roush said that lily rammed his truck into the tailgate of the other truck so they smashed into them again okay so ashcraft gets out of his truck with the automatic rifle and lily using the truck door as a shield like a fucking cop at a bank robbery uh gets out

of his truck holding the pistol um the big dispute is who shot first because it's just be turns into a fucking a hell of gunfire between these oh it's a shootout from 10 feet away from you know your truck backs in hits somebody he gets out the distance between the doors is 10 feet yeah it's right there this is insane um so a witness inside of glenn johnson's cabin said that the first shots had the sound of a high powered rifle, not a small caliber gun. However, another witness at another house down the road said the smaller gunshots started first. Who knows? And then Miss Roush said she didn't know who started what, but she said, quote, everybody started shooting. So several of Ashcraft shots had broken the windshield of the truck and there

was glass and debris i mean this is like a fucking action movie yeah led some told uh ashcraft to push in the clutch so the truck rolls down the hill okay why they're talking now at this point so lily uh lily does so i'm sorry let's let's him told lily to push in the clutch in order to roll the truck down the hill um now lily did so but he couldn't see where it was going and it rolled into a ditch by the side of the road yeah it's going back while this is going on they keep fighting firing at each other now at one point uh ash denver ash is wounded in the arm he manages to slip away inside the house uh later roush also glenda roush managed to get away into the house by this time lily had emptied the 22 pistol he gave it to led some who was still in

the truck and he said quote if you don't load this gun we're both dead reload reload led some opened the cylinder started to load the pistol when a shot came. Oh, my God, it's a revolver. Jesus Christ. It's a revolver, Jimmy. Yeah, it's a revolver. This is not good. A shot came through the windshield and hit Ledsom in the side of the head, causing him to spill the box of shells. Ledsom then threw the unloaded pistol back at Lily. By this time, he stopped firing Ashcraft, okay? Lily gets out of the truck and tries to retreat down the hill with a fucking assault rifle shell in his head.

Right. I don't know how that happened, but, um, yeah. So, uh, Lily's walking down the road.

Led some heard Ashcraft say, I've got another clip. Led some then heard Ashcraft put the clip into the rifle and then a single shot was fired and Lily fell to the ground clutching his leg. Then Ashcraft came down the road, passed the truck, stood over Lily, pointed the rifle at him, and told him to quote

give me my gun, because the.22 was his, remember from the beginning. Lily responded by pointing the unloaded pistol at him and pulling the trigger, but it's empty. Oh no! I don't think he knows what's going on right now now let led some is now half in half out of the passenger door of lily's truck he saw ash coming down the hill carrying what appeared to be a 22 caliber bolt action rifle more guns are involved in this so ash passed lily's truck and approached ashcraft

who was twisting the pistol out of lily's hand and putting it in his back pocket. Before Ashcraft got the gun away from Lily, Ash said to, quote, shoot him first and started working on the bolt rifle like to get it to go here. And Ashcraft moved to the side. So Denver Ash then stood over Lily, pointing the rifle at his head, and fired a shot. After the shot, Leadsom saw Lily quivering, and he said that it was a manner as if, quote, the life was going out of them. So Leadsom takes off running down the hill. The Ashcraft fires several shots in his direction, but doesn't hit him while he's running. The bullet cause of death, officially officially is a bullet wound to the

center of the forehead. Also bullet wounds in the left leg and left foot. The fatal head wound was made from a gun whose barrel was six to eight inches from his face. Just executed him. That's straight murder.

There was some indication that the fatal wound was made by a high-powered, copper-jacketed ammunition and not by the.22 caliber one. Like they said, it went down. So very quickly here, we'll talk about this trial here. The jury, okay? This is all we're going to talk about, the jury. Twelve angry groundhogs. That's all it is, just with hat one with glasses one taking notes

the questioning for by defense counsel revealed a number of the prospective jurors with a possible prejudice or bias how you may ask well let me explain four of the jurors had family members employed by law enforcement agencies that's normal it's a small town that makes sense four of the prospective jurors were acquainted with the prosecuting attorney one of these jurors went to the same church as the prosecutor another was a neighbor of the prosecutor the prosecutor was married to a cousin of another juror starting to get a pattern here this town's too small yeah their gene pool is too small the fourth was a friend of the prosecutor. They hunted together and the prosecutor had performed some legal work for this juror. Wow.

Seven members of the jury panel had read newspaper articles concerning the previous trial of the Ashcraft, by the way, has been convicted of murder in the past. That's the other thing. So he's got a previous murder conviction. By the way, all four of these jurors admitted they knew members of the victim's family as well. Okay. Yeah. One juror admitted even that she had spoken with various persons, including police officers, about this particular case.

Another juror admitted discussing the case at work. The two others admitted they had heard general talk about the case one prospective juror's grandmother may have served on the jury that returned the indictment charging them another prospective juror was a neighbor of glenda roush a defense witness another one was a neighbor of trooper proctor a witness for the prosecution right and at least one prospective juror was a neighbor of trooper from who helped uh who had helped that juror with a problem trooper from it also returned a stolen toolbox to another prospective juror it's too small here change of venue but this is the reason that you

do it not because people saw some shit on the news this here you got emotions tied up in this. Now, the statement of Ash shooting him in the head, that comes from Ash himself. He says he shot him in the head. But none of the evidence bears that out. The witnesses say it was Ashcraft and including the forensics. So it's, you know, the ballistics of the whole thing. So I don't know why he's trying to take the, the fucking blame for it, but he certainly is. Um,

the cops never recovered the, the, the weapon that Ashcraft was using. They never recovered it. They never found it. He put it somewhere up in the holler and nobody ever found it. You can hide. Yeah.

There are mine shafts and shit down there. You can throw something and it's fucking gone. Way up a groundhog's ass. You won't find it until it's cooked. Or what they do, they could tie you up and put food on you and the groundhogs eat you. That's how it works. Like Richard Kuklinski did with the rats. So the state made no claim that the...

What they did, there's a big to-do over. They couldn't find the rifle but they know what kind of rifle it is based on the you know the ammunition so at the closing arguments the prosecutor held up that kind of rifle and said this was the gut type of gun he was using they say that wasn't the gun he used though so that's inflammatory because they're just showing that could have been a more imposing looking gun than the one he had. So, well, maybe if you didn't throw it down a mine shaft, we'd have that to decide on. So anyway, they said the probative value of the rifle outweighed any prejudicial effect on the jury was the whole thing. Like they needed to know what kind of thing it was.

Verdict comes in for Ashcraft. He is found guilty of murder. Extremely guilty of murder yeah extremely guilty of murder yeah um this is almost like a walk like these people are all you almost just go what happens in the holler stays in the holler and you fucking go about your bit like it's so crazy up here how do you how do you adjudicate this justice yeah how do you like how do you parse legalities here with this with this day if you heard that story you go jesus i don't know everyone goes to prison i don't know i don't know so he's done some bad

shit today for sure yeah now west virginia no death penalty here so uh no death penalty but you can get life if you're convicted of murder you're going to get life either with a recommendation of mercy or without a recommendation of mercy from the jury. And that basically means a parole or no parole is what that is. No mercy is no parole. So they give him, you, sir, may fuck off life with a recommendation for mercy. Is that right? Yeah.

They're like, this was all pretty crazy. So, I mean, who hasn't had a breakfast, Groundhog, ran into Red, had some purple drink, partied down, you know, drank some Boone's Farm bottled fucking purple drink, fought with a guy in a tavern parking lot, then hunted him the entire day until you finally have a confrontational shootout like you're in a fucking Rambo movie. That's perfect. It could happen to anyone. The okay holler. Pang, pang. So on the appeal of this quickly, the appeal was mainly on the fact that the defense counsel was denied individual wadir of the jurors.

They weren't allowed to talk to the jurors and find out the extent of whatever. So they're saying that they didn't, you know, that's obviously prejudicial to him. So the court appeals court says, because the trial court abused its discretion in denying the appellant's request for individual Wadir of the jury panel, we reversed the conviction and remand the case for proceedings consistent with this opinion.

So reversed and remanded. And, um, from what I could find, i could not find another and i couldn't find another uh case so i think they just dismissed i don't think they ever what i think they just said fuck these hillbillies washing our hands of the whole thing whatever his jail cell has a sign that says gone fishing now is that what gone fishing that's it gone fishing he's just there's just a half-eaten plate of groundhogs sitting there and he'll never come back to it flies are around bumping his day that's it that's real quick one

that's elizabeth west virginia everybody that's the case everybody that's the case oh yeah that's too short for a regular episode but it's too incredible that's why we're doing this show in a shorter version uh with these so you can hear cases like that that are fucking insane and you need to hear them so uh that said So welcome to our new format. See you soon. Welcome to Small Town Murder Express. Enjoy your groundhog and purple drink. Eat all your groundhog. Don't kid me. Kids, if you don't eat all your groundhog, you're getting no dessert, okay? So eat up all your groundhog.

You don't get any butterflies if you don't eat your groundhog. Eat your groundhog and listen to Small Town Murder every Thursday. Listen to Crime and Sports every Tuesdayursday listen to crime and sports every tuesday listen to this every friday when we put it out and uh keep coming back and seeing us patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all your bonus stuff follow us on social media of course we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram and go to shut up and give me murder dot com right now for tickets for all throughout the whole year and merchandise and everything else. There we go.

That said, let's go. I think we're done. Let's do this. Everybody enjoy your groundhog. Bye. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars

Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.