Small Town Murder - #277 - Sex, Family & Wire Handcuffs - Clarence, Iowa

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

This week, in Clarence, Iowa, a family with some problems, like Mom is a convicted murderer, and Dad is an out of work trucker, who is having an affair with his adult step daughter, lead to seemingly inevitable circumstances, when one of them ends up on the side of a rural gravel road. Mom & Dad point the fingers at each other, but there is one witness, who can put all the pieces together. The problem is, he's only 13, and doesn't want either of his parents to go to jail. In the end, it all points at one person, being an especially cold blooded murderer!!Along the way, we find out that in Iowa, people keep their opinions to themselves, that bathroom floor sex is NEVER a good idea, especially with your stepdaughter, and blaming a murder on someone, just because they're a murderer doesn't always ring true!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Clarence, Iowa, a filthy relationship may be the reason for the brutal killing of a young woman, but once her mother is accused, the whole thing just gets weird. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder. My goodness, do we have a wild one for you today. I've been saying this about every state lately, but I'm starting to realize that everywhere is crazy. It's not just certain states. Today we're in Iowa. Iowa never lets us down. It's always nuts, but neither does Ohio or West

Virginia or Florida or New Jersey. There's so many. Arizona. So many states that we have for that. So this one, absolutely nuts. Quickly, before we get started, thank you for your reviews this week. They help a lot. Whatever app you're listening on, Five Stars is helpful.

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talk all about that and uh speaking of gross for small town murder we're going to talk about jeffrey dahmer stuff oh boy as you know we're not going to just say oh he killed this many people and this is what he did. Thank you. Good night. We're going to go into a deep dive of little certain areas. We're going to talk about how he got caught, how he didn't get caught, and kind of little weird things around his arrest

and the whole figuring out who the hell this guy was. We'll get into that. So fun. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports where you get all of that and a shout out at the end of the show you get it all it's so great and from there it's disclaimer time everybody quickly we're comedians okay this is a this is a comedy show about real stories there's no embellishment for humor nothing like that we couldn't make this stuff up this is crazy stuff

so and we wouldn't want to. It's just too crazy. And we don't have to is the thing where if you don't think true crime and comedy jokes should ever go together, this might not be for you. But it might be because we don't we are careful. Put it that way. We know we're professional comedians and we know where the funny is. And it's not around the actual murder. That's the thing.

There's nothing funny about someone cutting someone's head off. That's not funny. The funny part is someone trying to get away actual murder. That's the thing. There's nothing funny about someone cutting someone's head off. That's not funny. The funny part is someone trying to get away with murder. That's hilarious. That's a dumb thought to have. So what we do, though, is we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

That's how that works right there. So if that sounds good to you, it's going to be a fun time. Bomb bags. That's how that works right there. So if that sounds good to you, it's going to be a fun time. And I think that you should possibly clear the lungs, sit back, and shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy.

Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Oh, boy. Yeah, I'd like it. Not too far, going from Oklahoma over to Iowa here. Clarence, Iowa. Oh. Yeah, named after Clarence.

Some guy named Clarence that lived there when we got there. Not Thomas? How you doing? I'm Clarence. How are y'all? It's in eastern Iowa over here. It's about 40 minutes to Cedar Rapids. That seems to be the closest kind of big place.

It's almost two and a half hours to Des Moines and four hours and 35 minutes to Shenandoah, Iowa, which was our last Iowa episode, the Night Stalker Training Program. Was that right? Yeah, that was a wild one, too. I remember that. This is in Cedar County, area code 563. The motto here, this makes no sense, okay, because I have to tell you about the punctuation because that's where it's weird. The motto is Clarence, it's the word Clarence, then in quotes, welcomes you. That's it.

That feels threatening. That's on their sign, welcomes you. Yeah, that's what I mean. Welcomes you means you get punched in the throat when you cross the town border. Welcomes you. You know how we welcome people here in clarence right very weird the community originally was called onion grove gross yeah that doesn't sound appealing to move there moving to stinky yeah well it was because of the widespread growth of wild onions oh there that's why there's tons of onions so is this the second week in a

row that there's been onions i don't know what's up prevalent's tons of onions so is this the second week in a row that there's been onions i don't know what's up prevalent what the fuck is going on with the onions what's happening with these onion communities we've dealt with people doing wild rice picking they're ricing yeah like are they picking rice is that how rice works we were very surprised by that 60 40 onion burgers one grain at a time Then we had the onion burgers in Oklahoma. And now we have this. It was Onion Creek. They moved the village.

They wanted to be closer to the railroad line. They weren't important enough for the railroad line to put right by them. So we're like, well, pack it up, Eric. We're going to the railroad. Fuck it. They don't want to come to us. We will come to you. I bet you the onions grow there, too.

Yeah. Well, I'm sure there was. So we're you that's the onions grow there too yeah well they i'm sure there was so we're moving away from the onions shit they're still onions so they moved there to be close to the railroad line and that's when they changed the name uh to clarence from onion grove not because onion grove is a terrible name for a town and no one will want to live there not because of that but also because uh the a guy who lived there already uh his name by the way is richard gear which yes stop it is it's richard gear no shit same spelling and everything here um really richard gear was from a town called clarence new york so they it that. So why don't we name it that? And it was incorporated as Clarence in 1866. Richard Gere had a store here with a guy named Fish. It was called Fish and Gere.

I couldn't make that up. I was like, don't say it to me. Let me get to Fish and Gere first. That's the greatest name. Fish and Gere. That's amazing. is it not it sounds like a like a pet store that sells small fantastic small you know birds fish small furry animals of different types that sort of thing so hamsters are you know just just different the damn it jimmy see you had to say it't you? It's so much funnier to dance around it.

Damn you. No, it's not. Yes, it is. That's the skill of comedy. I don't know. I really like when it's right in your face. You're walking around with a dad joke cudgel. What's that?

It's right in your face. Pull my finger. You're a professional comedian. Is Fish and Gear, was it a fishing store? No, it was just Fish and Gear. The other guy's name was Fish. Yeah, but it's just a general store? No, it was a store that was in a room above the Presbyterian church.

I hate all of it. It sounds terrible. They're really blowing it. See, that's funny. That's funny. Now you're doing it. That's something you can be proud of, damn it. See?

They could move so many rods and reels. God damn it. So many, but nope. Instead, this place was burned in 1865 they fucking deserve it there's weird shit going on above the church it's it's worth burning the church too we think it's that weird it's just so weird we're gonna burn the church and everything and we're gonna move the town over near the railroad because we don't even want to be near the spot where this took place it's that fucking weird what's happening here it's just weird uh no richard you ain't

coming with us you stay here you ain't coming you stay it's the greatest business that is ruined ever how amazing is that i had to look up where the hell this who who this richard gear guy was and i'm like, no fucking way. He had a store that sounded like a pet shop. That is, it's just too much. Yeah. Low hanging? Maybe, but it's in our faces.

It's low hanging like somebody's nutsack bouncing off your forehead. You can't ignore it. It's too, it's right there. So. Wow. Anyway, reviews of this town, quickly. There's no reviews of Clarence really uh on a couple it's hard to find a review of clarence i did find one here there's one from spurling's best places is on this one that's the only usually they don't have reviews too much on

that site so clarence is a nice clean small town there's a small eatery a casey's general store and a bar not much else housing is cheap and for a hundred thousand dollars you can buy a lot of house on a big lot you are centrally located between cedar rapids and iowa city jesus boy dreams dreams can come true between both i can go to both of those places holy shit pinch me jimmy roll over here and pinch me please because this is too much for me i can't take it i'm gonna have a stroke from excitement and i was saying and i was cedar rapids is one thing but and i was saying now i'm gonna centrally located oh i to change my underwear now. Jesus Christ.

It's too much. I came and shit. That's what I mean. It's just they're trash. We're going to have to take a small break, everybody, while we reconstitute our undergarments. It's been a real problem over here. Iowa City.

Oh, yeah. Cedar Rapids. Lived here, or lived her about 10 years is actually what the review says he spelled it how he pronounced it lived her now the next one is for cedar county this is for the county it's in all right now uh this is funny you just i don't know i'm gonna read it like it's like it's fucking typed four stars okay it is the first city that i lived in very quiet city with courtesy people oh courtesy people and they have little vests on i'm the courtesy person people and l jointed the college here i don't

know what l jointed the college is i'm planning to spend the rest of my life here looking after my kids because it is really awesome place for me to raise my kids in. This sounds like a foreigner. Someone came in. English is not their first language. He said this is the first city I live. So it sounds like they came to America. That's where they moved. And now they're writing a review of how great it is in English. I would prefer your language, and I'll just translate, and that way I'll know what you're talking about. Although, I can't speak that well in any other language, so never mind. That's very impressive. Hats off. There you go. I don't think that if I moved to any country that spoke a different language that I'd be able to grasp it in no five years

how long would it take you probably a long five years right the longer it went the worse it would get it would be put it that way it would just be frustrating i have no idea can we just do it in english worse and worse and worse here i barely have that one i'm bad i'm tenuous grasp on english people in this town 965 so it's a small little town. Few more males than females, which is actually the opposite of normal. Average age is high. 51 is the average age. Holy shit.

Normally about 37 and a half. A lot of people over 55. 65 to 74, very high. 85 and over, that population, is 9% of the population almost here is that right usually not even two percent here it's like it's a lot of older people here you don't come here to party you come here to die or to retire or stay here or outlast yeah i'm sure a lot of older people that's they're living long here no so uh it's about 50 5050 married, which is normal. Most of the stats on these are normal, except for race is not quite normal here. 98.8% white.

Yeah. That is very white. 0.5% black and 0.8% Hispanic. That's all you get here. So it's a small town in Iowa, in rural Iowa. What kind of diversity you're looking for here. Religion in this town, 44% religious, which is below the national average. And they're spread around pretty good.

Methodists, a couple of Lutherans, a Presbyterian or two. It's spread around pretty. There's no demonstrative shit, really, in this area. No one is. You know what I mean? It's not. Everybody just kind of keeps. Don't talk about that in public.

We're all just kind of kind of go with the flow, meet down at the feed store and then go back to our farms and talk shit to our wives and how that kind of thing. 57.6% Republican and 2% Independent in this town, or 1.9% actually. The economy here, unemployment rate's about normal with the rest of the country, very low. The median household income here, though, is about 42,574. So the average is 53.5, so it's a little bit low. But the cost of living, also low. $100,000 is average. Here it's $80,000. So that's the low on the cost of living meter.

Housing, though, is very low. Median home cost here, $126,900. Awesome. That's very, very low here. And if we've convinced you, damn it, to slow down your pace of life and just take it down a little bit here. We have for you the Clarence, Iowa Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $733, which is normally over $1,200 in the rest of the country. Here you have a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,152-square-foot house here, a little house.

It's pretty trashy on the inside, real crusty. There's a big spot that looks like smeared shit, but you can tell it's not smeared shit. It's tile and glue and some brown shit mixed with water stains that is now- It's on the wall? Yes, a ceiling and wall that now looks like smeared shit. Furniture is in the basement for some reason. I don't know why. It's a very strange little house, but 65 grand for that place.

There you go. I mean, it's cheap. You can clean it out uh two bedroom one bath 1024 square feet okay now i you would probably have more if you got rid of all the little shit in it it's got a lot of knickknacks in it there's stuff but it's the type of house where the refrigerator is 100 covered in magnet oh you know what i mean it's one of those where it's lined up so it covers the whole fridge.

Everywhere they go, they pick one up. Shit on every shelf and Hummel crap. You don't even know what it is. You've got 1,000 square feet. You've got to do that simply. Yeah, it's stuffed with this stuff. You'd think you'd want some room. The bathroom is extremely purple. Just real purple, but no shit smear looking things on, so that's a positive.

$139,000 for that, so still excessively cheap, kind of your average house. Then I found this little beauty here. This is something, actually. Three bedroom, two bath, 1,904 square feet. So, nice house, two story. It's very bland on the inside. It was clearly remodeled in the 70s and hasn't been touched since. Wood panel, old kitchen.

But I'm looking at the house and the shape of the doorways and things like that. I'm like, this looks like really old, good architecture, though. And I looked it up. It was built in 1893. Holy shit. architecture though yeah and i looked it up it was built in 1893 holy shit so it has very cool architecture and probably some like nice flooring under the shit that they like the linoleum they stuck down and stuff yeah but it's just under the 70s remodel so this you could probably restore this house to be like a grand old house it's pretty cool 145 000 bucks for that how fascinating

is it that 70s decoration and architecture really fucking ruined a lot? It was just, we need to make shit cheap. Let's make it cheap and reproducible. That's all it was. Cover all this shit. It was bad. Now, things to do. Cover all the unique.

I'll cover that right up. We don't need that. You mess up that wood floor, then it costs money to fix. So just stick linoleum to it. It'd be perfect perfect you just stick more linoleum on top of it so things to do this is right from the site the website come see our replica statue of liberty i don't know why they need a replica statue of liberty uh come see our replica statue of liberty remodeled restrooms oh boy the shitters are fixed everybody hell yeah comerooms. Oh, boy. The shitters are fixed, everybody. Hell, yeah.

Come on down to Clarence. The shitters are fixed. You don't have to jiggle a handle anymore in Clarence, Iowa. That's their motto. And entrance lights at the city park. Great. Let's see. Two enclosed shelters, the Lions Open Shelter, and an open shelter with kitchen are available for parties and reunions.

A disc golf course is available at the city park for your enjoyment. Terrific. Come see our mural of the history of Clarence located on the side of the old city hall building. Jesus Christ, this is depressing here. We have a high quality of life marked by clean air, a strong work ethic, belief in family values, concern for each other, cooperation, and a sense of pride. We feel that rural Iowa provides a good environment for all ages, especially for raising children.

Okay. Here we go. Now, here are some events. One event is called Fall in Love with Clarence, which sounds like there's just this guy named Cl clarence sitting there and they're like someone fucking fuck he's been single a long time somebody love him and they sit him down so goddamn charming it's a challenge to not fall in love with him fall in love with clarence he's like hi how dare you he's singing tom jones and shit we're like everyone loves clarence says the clarence main streetotion Committee is excited to announce

the third annual Fall in Love with Clarence. I guess it didn't work the first two years. An autumn festival celebrating all the wonderful things about our community. Take a look around you and see the changes being made, new and fun events happening and pride in our community growing. Be sure to attend the festival and take part

in any or all of the events planned. Pumpkin decorating contest? Gee, that'll be a lot of fun in any or all of the events planned. Pumpkin decorating contest? Gee, that'll be a lot of fun. That looks like all the events, though. Really, they have. It'll be a quick day. The winner will have his or her picture taken with their pumpkin and receive $10 in Clarence cash. What?

It's not even real money. You have to... Wow, that's terrible. You can't even buy drugs with it. You have to spend it on Main Street. Right. You have to go buy an ice cream cone. Or go to the dry cleaner. There is an Elvis house tour.

Oh, wait, what? What does that say to you? Elvis had a house there. It says to me that Elvis used to live there, right. No, it's actually the home of Frida Bixler, and she'll be opening her home on September 18th for a free self-guided tour to view her Elvis memorabilia. That's an event.

Go to this old lady's house and look at her Elvis shit that she's collected over the years. That's amazing. That's an event in this town. Jimmy, go to Frida's house. She's got Elvis stuff. You can go look at it. Did she volunteer it or did somebody say, I don't know, you guys, Frida's got a bunch of Elvis shit. I think Frida will be surprised when you show up at her house.

Excuse me? I mean, I have. I guess you can see it. I don't know. Sure. I love Fall Sweep on Main Street. That's another one they have here. Fall Sweep?

Fall Sweep on Main Street. Bring your family, your gloves, and a shovel a shovel bucket or push broom and be a part of sprucing up downtown pardon come on down and clean some shit for us what a weird fucking thing so yeah we'll be decorating for fall picking up trash and sweeping some sidewalks in the clarence main street district all right sure why not bring a bucket. The next thing is sounds very creepy. The Bill Riley talent search. And it's part of the Cedar County Fair. In 1946, Iowa Falls native Bill Riley emceed variety shows held at the state at the Iowa State Fair by a radio station. In 57, Bill approached fair secretary Lloyd Cunningham about showcasing talented kids during the state fair. Oh, God, no, I don't like that. Two years later, Bill Riley's first Iowa State Fair talent search was held. By August of 1959, Bill had crisscrossed the state holding numerous talent shows.

Oh, Jesus, God, this sounds awful. 63 is arrested. Yeah, that's what I mean. No, he retired in 96, that's what I mean. No, he's retired at 96. It's still going on. Today, the talent search is still thriving through his son, Bill Riley Jr. Jesus, it's just adding up with red flags here. Nearly 100 local qualifying shows are held across the state with seven days of preliminary competition for Sprouts, ages 2 to 12.

Ain't that. Oh, and seniors, ages 13 to 12 ain't that oh and seniors ages 13 to 21 well all aged out of the of being fuckable at that point you know what i mean that's their seniors they call that's the senior circuit this is disgusting right up um followed by semi-finals and ultimately the selection of six sprout champions and one senior champion oh my, my God. That is scary. Okay. Crime rate in this town. What we are obviously interested in here. Property crime. It's low.

It's rural Iowa. There's a lot of room. Not much going on. It's about half the national average. Maybe a little under that. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and obviously assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-third under the national average as well. I like that.

Wow. Yeah. People are very mild in these parts, Jimmy. Very respectful to each other. They're mild. They're Midwestern, whereas if there's something going on, they're not going to go, hey, asshole, what are you doing? They're more to just look at it and go, oh, boy, and then go home and tell their wife,

I saw this one down there, and then go home and tell their wife, I saw this one down there, and boy, I'll tell you something. He was more likely to do that than yell at each other from across the room, which I find weird. I feel like when you have that much, that little... They're not really getting anybody jacked up to do anything, so they're just even keel always. Do you know what I mean? You've got a pumpkin decorating contest.

You're wandering through Frida's house. There's nothing crazy happening. It's a non-demonstrative kind of place. It's very chill. I don't know what to do in places like that. I'm used to it. Everywhere I grew up, if someone has any problem with anything, oh, that's what you hear from across

the room you know it's very different and the average age is 51 so yeah it's an older quieter crowd they're farmers so uh let's talk about a murder here that happened in this little weird place here of clarence this murder let us go back in the time machine jimmy no buckle in because as last time we got bounced around, you hit your head. It was difficult tonight. Now I got alopecia. See what happens? So let's talk about this murder.

84 we're going back to. Yeah. I got to go back to there. 1984. And let's talk about a couple of people just trying to get by in this world, just trying to get through. One is John Frank Roth. He is 35 years old, and he's an unemployed truck driver at this point.

So rough going. Don't picture Kevin Costner, by the way. You're picturing, I said Iowa, so you're all like Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams. He's standing on the porch with a breeze in his hair and a fucking a plaid shirt listening for his dad's whisper you know like

no this guy is five foot nine two hundred eighty nine pounds that's a big fella that is a he and I'll post his picture on social media he is everything on him is round like he's got this round head and he's just this little round all he looks round like he's got this round head and he's just this

little round all he looks like like he's like screw on baby parts yeah he looks like he's like a giant baby is what he looks like it's the best way to describe him like a giant one-year-old he's uh 35 years old like i said uh unemployed truck driver it's the 84 i don't know if he got in during like the big convoy boom in the late 70s there because people were like leaving their jobs to be truckers in the late 70s because there was like TV shows about truckers, movies and songs. And that shit looked glamorous. And then they were like, oh, this is a hard job. Holy shit. Oh, my God. I have to bathe in a Conoco. This is really hard. I didn't think was going to have to yeah take a shower at the gas station that's and then sleep in my truck and be okay with that that's a hard job it's not easy man not to mention the actual job itself is impossible you're this giant truck and you're

trying to wield it around and it's crap that like i've said before brain surgeons aside i respect you whatever but back a fucking 18 wheeler up to a loading dock perfectly, and to me, that's a magic trick. That is amazing. Dragging 100 feet of steel down the road is nuts. Incredible. It's incredible. At 90 miles an hour, and then you've got to try to stop that fucking thing. It's insane.

All that weight, It's wild. So I don't know if he was trying to become his truck and gain some extra weight, but I don't know why he's not employed now, but he's unemployed. His mother-in-law, as we'll talk about, or I'm sorry, his mother said that he's been unemployed for a long time. Oh, it's been a minute. It's been going on for a while. They live a block from his wife's house. His wife's name is Sharon Roth. They live right down the street from Sharon's house over here. Sharon and John live right down the street from Sharon's mother's house.

OK, OK. Now, Sharon, Sharon and John, by the way, have had a rocky relationship. Let's say. They were married in 1971. They have children, as we'll talk about here, and they both have other children, too. There's a lot of kids around and in and out. Thirteen-year marriage, and there's just kids everywhere. There's kids everywhere from her previous, from his previous. We'll give you some history here.

But they've been fighting the last few years. John and Sharon, though, they've been like kind of fighting on and off. And she has thought about leaving him, but doesn't want to because of the kids. And then he said that he's thought about leaving her. And it's it's just been kind of a deteriorating relationship in 1983. This is very deteriorating, Sharon fired a 12-gauge shotgun at a truck that he was driving with his mother in it. Oh, my God. So, yeah, she fired a shotgun at the truck while, like I said, he's driving it with his mother in the car.

So that's dangerous. Yeah, I would hope so. If not, I'm really worried about what's going on here. That's an angry lady. Bye, honey, see you later, boom. Drive safe, pow. I'd hope she was pissed off. Put your seatbelt on.

Yeah, and there was evidence of this from witnesses, from later on police and everything else so this is a definite thing that happened and then uh another they would practice shooting on the farm that john's mother owned in sioux city so they would shoot out there all the time yeah so they both are knowledgeable with guns as we'll find out. And, uh... Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. us in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So they have a son named John Jr. who was 13 at the time. They had him right after they got together. Jr., who was 13 at the time.

They had him right after they got together. And John, Jr. says as well in 1984 that his mother, sometimes violent, she's been committed more than once to a mental institution in the last few years as well. The lady that shoots at a man in his truck is not stable? Well, I mean, one thing to shoot at him, but his mom's in the car. What are you doing? That seems a little much. So also there was an incident where this was several years earlier, and this was the same truck that she will later on shoot at in 1983.

But in the late 70s, she repeatedly rammed her car into his truck, in which John and john jr were in so her son who was you know maybe eight nine years old at the time was in the car she repeatedly rammed the truck with her car so that's a little bit scary i would say this relationship is a party it's it's something it sounds like um sounds like i don't know if you've ever seen Cocaine Cowboys, but the documentary where they're talking about the one guy, Christ, he wrote the book about it too. Anyway, he's a drug dealer guy who's talking about him and his wife used to get in these fights and then they would get mad at each other. And on their property in Miami, they'd drive their Porsches into each other and do on their property in miami they drive their like porsches into each other and do like bumper cars and they were like oh yeah and then afterwards we do a bunch of coke and laugh

and then we go buy new porsches and we're like just destroy a couple hundred grand worth of cars push them off in the dirt and then go get new cars but that's not what's going on here and it's not this is terrible on both sides we don't know what's happening but this is not you can't be doing this this is violent and You can't be doing this. This is violent and dangerous, and you're endangering children and the elderly at this point that I've found. So kind of scary. But we'll find out, too. She has reason to be mad at him.

This isn't the way to take your anger out. He's a scumbag, John. Don't get me wrong. He's no angel here. But you can't shoot a 12-gauge at him and his mom. I don't care what he's doing. That's not here. Yeah. But you can't shoot a 12 gauge at him and his mom. I don't care what he's doing. That's not okay. Right.

If he had it all together, the first time she licks shots at the fucking car, he's probably out the door. But he's probably a little unstable also. Perhaps he digs that shit. Maybe that's what he's into. Yeah. You can't like, I don't know if anybody's into gunplay though. That's a little much, I think. Who knows?

Or ramming your car into people while your son's in it. She's showing how much she loves me. If you're into getting your car run into while your son's in it, then you're worse than the person who's doing it. Or just as bad at that point. See boy, that's called a passionate woman. Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm not worried about my son at all because my dick's hard because she's running into the side of my car. It's a weird position to have.

I hope that that's not what's going on here. So they have not slept in the same bedroom for a while as 1984 comes on. They've been sleeping in separate bedrooms. And, you know, they're staying together for the kids. It's that marriage. Yeah. Which, obviously, it's doing a bang-up job of making the kids' lives wonderful, I'm sure. Certainly. Obviously, it's doing a bang up job of making the kids lives wonderful. I'm sure that certainly obviously this is not a good idea. So let's talk a little bit about Sharon and give some of her history here to do this. We have to go back to 1965. OK. She was Sharon Hildebrandt in January of 65. She was Sharon Hildebrandt. She lived in Clinton, Iowa. She was 20 years old,

divorced and six months pregnant. Oh boy. So having some problems in January of 65. And she has some issues here when she's involved with this shooting of a man named Walter Adams, who was 39, who'd been shot dead with a.22 caliber gun and found

in an alley near the back of the Greyhound Bus Depot in Davenport, Iowa on Halloween night. That's a terrible way to die. All of those things put together. Gunshot, alley, fucking Greyhound Bus Depot, Davenport halloween night all of those are gross it's all gross so this was in uh 1964 that happened halloween night 64 and by three months later that's we'll talk about what's going on with her that's when she's she's already pregnant at this point but barely she might not even know at this point so um adams was found in a dying condition

in an alley out there. Like we said, the autopsy indicated he'd been shot through the heart with a 22 caliber. His truck was parked nearby. And when they found him and his brother, who was a fireman, was called to the scene, not knowing it was his brother. He just got called in on a medical thing and found his brother laying there. Search of his body and the truck was made, but they never found the keys to the truck. So they didn't know what happened.

Wow. Truck's there, no keys. So that'll come up a little bit later here. What it was was Sharon had been employed, I'm sorry, her husband, I guess, had been employed by Walter Adams here during this time in 1964. And they had been living in Clinton, Iowa. And her husband, their

landlady, Betty Ann Collier, said that they lived there, that she lived this wasn't her husband, this was her boyfriend. Now, her husband, she was divorced. Okay, so the guy who just knocked her up now. it's very confusing with sharon so they lived together she went on she went by sharon miller at that point

even though that wasn't her name that's not even her name yeah but i don't know in the 60s you had to a lot of places wouldn't rent to you if you weren't married really yeah in the 60s in iowa you can't be like we're just shacking up. It's a good time. Let us know if the fucking machine gets too loud on the vibrations on the floor. We'll turn it down to a lower setting. Like the two people have to be married. Okay, God. It's not like you can't be.

I get it. Just shacking up. Yeah. Especially if it's Mrs. Betty Ann Collier. She's not renting us some swinging kids. No. You're not one of those beatniks, are you? That's what she's saying in 65.

I don't want to smell any jazz cigarettes or sex in the air. Oh, I can smell the sex in the air. I can smell it. It's just, oh, boy, I remember that smell from the jazz clubs back in my youth. Out of wedlock sex, it smells different. It smells happy. It's just got a... It's like sex, but also with cherries in it. You know, just like a happy...

It smells clean, not like that musky marriage sex. It's often. So, all I want is the musk in my house. I want that humid married sex. There we go. That way I can bang my cane on the ceiling and say, open a window up there, you disgusting, you bastard pigs. You bunch of slobs. So this Betty Ann Collier said that Sharon was, quote, supposedly his wife.

So obviously. And anyway, Walter Adams would pay their rent on the apartment because they worked for him. So her boyfriend slash pretend husband worked for him. That's why I thought that was her husband, because I knew of the marriage. I'm very confused. So on October 30th, Miller, who's her her slash husband, and Sharon left the apartment in Clinton. They spent the night in a motel and the next morning went by bus to Davenport, arriving in the afternoon. Later the same afternoon, Sharon, in company with Miller, purchased a cheap.22 caliber pistol and some bullets at a pawn shop in Davenport using his driver's license for the

identification. So they know that they bought this. The address of the apartment was given at the time, even though they had already left it and all of that. So the the Walter Adams, the guy who was found behind the bus station, was with an employee that night, a guy named Gene Dines, at his own home in Davenport at about 9 p.m. His sister took a phone call for him and a woman had called and, you know, Walter Adams came to the phone. He talked on the phone for a few minutes with this woman who had called. And after the phone call, they said he seemed normal. He stopped to say something to his father. And then after that, he seems somewhat nervous. They said he spoke to his sister, made another phone call, and then left the house.

Okay. And none of their family saw him until the brother saw him dying in an alley behind the bus station later on. Jesus. That's the last time anybody saw him. So the police, the FBI actually helped with some technical shit here. So they had the FBI involved in the investigation. They found on Walter Adams a bruise on his right arm just above the elbow, which the doctor attributed to a bite. So he was bitten.

On the arm? Just above the elbow, causing a pretty good bruise. Now, the bullet recovered from his body had sufficient markings to identify it as being made by or being shot by a cheap foreign made revolver. So that's what they they didn't know which one, but one of those. So one of the guys here, an expert from the FBI stated the bullet could have been fired from any one of 500,000 guns now in the United States that'll break it down for you

how's that? what do you say there? the area around the bullet hole in the clothing was microscopically examined and chemically tested for the presence of gunpowder residue obviously to see how close the gun was none was found so it's got to be from a distance now on november 3rd three days after this guy was murdered um miller her husband slash boyfriend there was arrested in louisville kentucky while

driving walter adams 1953 ford pickup truck idiot yeah they they went back and stole it after they picked his body up off the ground at some point they went back and were like okay coast is clear let's go steal this guy's truck they'll never know jesus that is dumb that's just dumb i'm sorry dismount people this is worse than the guy with the tractor this is terrible this they went back after it had been seen at the fucking scene they didn't steal it after they killed him they were like leave it here wait i bet let's wait like what the fuck man um yeah that's that's fucking weird so uh yeah they they're it's they're um it's been they've been stolen reported stolen so it's been found very easily and then a few days later they end up end up finding Sharon in Louisville a little while after that.

So Miller, her boyfriend slash husband, told the detective that he and Sharon came to Davenport from Clinton on a bus. They got there at two o'clock in the afternoon on Halloween, walked around, did some shopping, ate at a local restaurant and went to a show oh oh that's what a romantic dinner day sounds like a romantic comedy from the late 90s doesn't it julia roberts and i don't know this is crazy oh they're didn't know this is yeah they're just hanging out after the show they went to the halloween parade that's wonderful people throwing candy at you after After the parade, they went to a tavern where he had a couple of beers,

but Sharon didn't drink at all. He said that at no time during the day did Sharon use the telephone in his presence, so never called that guy, Walter Adams. That female call-up couldn't have been her.

So after leaving the tavern, they walked down the street and made their way to another tavern, which was about to close it was 11 45 at the time it was bars close at midnight in iowa jesus a lot of towns that are like that too it's like god like jerome in arizona the bars close at fuck like 10 o'clock really some of them you're supposed to go home and do

mushrooms then though you're probably right. It's the witching hour. They ring a big bell. It's the mushroom hour. Y'all go out there and do mushrooms, and then we'll bring back ghost stories the next day. All right, then. Homemade LSD. That's the only way we can make a living up here, people.

So get some ghost stories. Let's do it. Pretend you saw some shit. Nope. There's already people selling ice cream. Sorry. That ain't going to work. This is all you can do.

So, yeah, it's closing. They went to a bus depot, they said, to see about buying tickets to Kentucky, which was where Miller was from. Kentucky, which was where Miller was from. And he said he came out as he came out of the tavern. He saw Walter Adams truck, which was parked parallel to the alley alongside the central fire station. And he left Sharon at the bus depot, went to see a person named Gamble. That's his name, Gamble, and couldn't find him. So he returned to Sharon at the bus station. He said then he said he went out and got

the truck he said the keys were in the truck at the time and there was a man coming down the alley carrying a bag so he said he picked up sharon they rode around a while and finally decided to go to kentucky he said he tried to talk sharon out of it because of her condition because she's you know three months pregnant but she said she would go anyway, her condition. She's just pregnant. But she said if he didn't take her, I'll follow on my own. So he said, well, okay. You can't go doing that.

Not in her condition. That's all. Not in your condition. So then he has another story where he said they did the same, basically the same thing. But they said they went up to a room at the Columbia Hotel and stayed a while. And then later on, they came to the Griddle restaurant. And while at this restaurant, now he says Sharon borrowed a dime from him and made a phone call. And he overheard Sharon say, is Walt there?

That's very different from she never made a phone call at all. She borrowed money from me to do it. Now she borrowed money and then in your presence went to go find Walt. So a little different. He said he went out in the street to talk to her, and she said, quote, I'm sorry. We have to go down. I've got to meet Walt in front of the ABC pool hall. But I told you, but i told you uh i but i

told walt you weren't going to be around so i don't know then he walked to the abc pool hall with sharon and continued down the street alone said while he was walking around he saw adam's truck go by and he didn't know whether walt adams was driving the truck or not. Could have been Sharon. Who knows? He then said he went into John and Joe's Tavern where he had a whiskey and seven up. Not a bad choice. That's bubbly. When he came out, he saw the truck parked at the bus depot. He said he went to another tavern, had a couple beers, and then at that time thought Sharon was gone too long. So he went out of the tavern, walked around the bus depot, met her as she was coming back.

They went upstairs to their hotel where they hung out for 30 minutes. And he said that Sharon's hair was all messed up and her hand was all red. And he asked her what happened, but she wouldn't tell him. It's filthy. Can't tell him. Can't tell you. It was a dirty thing. He then said he was told he was going to go out for a few minutes, walk

to the tavern where he had another beer and stayed about 10 minutes until it was 10 minutes to 12. So 1150. And he said he left the tavern and saw the truck by the bus depot, but now it had been moved. And he said he went back to the room where Sharon gave him the keys. Here's the keys

to a truck. He said, why didn't you bring the truck? Why didn't he bring the truck? Why didn't why didn't he bring the truck? Why didn't he bring his car? And Sharon said, well, his two cars are laid up. And that's the reason he brought his truck. He said he got the keys from Sharon, went out and got the truck after checking out. And he said when he walked over to the truck to get in it, a man with a paper sack was there.

And he was looking for looking at him at the time. Just a mysterious man with a paper sack staring at him. It's called a homeless man. He said, was it tied to the end of a stick by any chance? Was it shaped like a bottle? Yeah, what was in that? Did he take a sip from his paper bag so he picked up sharon they rode around for a while finally decided to go to louisville and he said again tried to talk her out of it because her condition and all um but you know

he um he said that um over the whole course of this thing, they both ended up being Sharon and Dan Miller, her husband slash boyfriend, were convicted of second degree murder in the end here is what happened. So they get convicted of second degree murder. And after she's convicted, she's a party in jail, too. She she's a party in jail, too. After she's convicted, she went on a hunger strike in the Scott County jail. Yeah. And was hospitalized for a time after that. Oh, Jesus. She took it serious.

She did it. She did it for real. So she is sentenced to you, ma'am, may fuck off a 25 year prison sentence for that particular murder. sentence for that particular murder. You might be wondering how has she been married for 14 years and have a 13-year-old in 1984 if she got sentenced to 25 years in 1965? That math doesn't add up, right? Sure doesn't. That sounds pretty crazy.

Well, let's go over the math here. She's sentenced to 25 years at the Iowa's Women's Reformatory in Rockwell City, but she ends up being transferred to university hospitals in Iowa City to give birth to a son in May of 65. She has a son and so she ends up being returned to the Rockwell City facility, but then she

escapes from prison. What? She escapes from prison. She's out, man. She gets out for 10 days. No kidding. 10 fucking days, which is wild. In 1968, she was attending classes on a state work release program. This is three years after being convicted of murder. Convicted of murder.

Wow. Okay. So then she is released on parole in August of 69. What? They paroled her a year after she tried to escape three years after being convicted of murder. Did escape for 10 days. She did it.

That is wild, man. Yeah. That is like very fucking lenient. That's wow. Well, you know what? She really does want to be out. You could tell. You could tell from the fact that she what she really does want to be out you could tell you could tell from the fact that she escaped that she really wants to be out i think i i do say oftentimes

that it's that it's a man's world except for in prison that is a woman's world yeah yeah that's that's now that's just you know mathematically they do the math and you're yeah they can you can there you can look it up. There's crimes where if you do this crime, you can expect this average time as a man and this average time. And that's – I don't know. I would give a woman less time probably as a juror. It's just me. You know what I mean?

I would – Yeah, I guess it depends. Yeah. In this situation, maybe. Yeah. I don't know why that is. You look at a woman and you're like, oh, that's my mother and stuff like that. And then the guy's like, oh, it's just my dad.

He's fine. You know? And most of the time, the murders that women commit, they're rarely like, yeah, they're rarely as vicious. Sometimes they're just as. But most of the times, it's to get out of a situation where they're being abused or whatever. You know what I mean? A lot of times it's for profit, too. And a lot of times it's with a guy.

You know what I mean? They're put in the situation by a dude that's way worse. Just anecdotally, I look at hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of murders. You've got to look at 50 to find one. So it's maybe more. So what I see a lot of when I'm looking, because sometimes like, oh, we've had so many male male murderers. Let's have a woman murder. We need to give some equal time here.

And so I'll be looking for stuff. And it seems like half the female murderers just anecdotally are killing their children. It's like killed their baby postpartum or whatever the fuck. That's half of the women murderers. And then probably another third of them on top of that are the, or another quarter maybe, are like the with a guy. They went and robbed a place and then kidnapped a guy and all that kind of shit. And then the other are just like kill their husband for insurance

or some shit like that. But there's not the same. A man will kill because they really want to stab you and fuck the hole. They'll kill you just for that. Whereas you don't get that kind of murder from women very often is what I'm getting at. It's always like for a need or for a desire or for an escape or whatever the fuck it is. It's very rare that a woman will murder somebody and then try to fuck the corpse. Yeah. Women generally murder less just because their dicks hard whereas a guy will murder just for

that fucking reason so that's all alone that's all we're saying so anyway she is released from parole in september 1970 not even on parole anymore man man. Just free. She was sentenced five years before that to 25 years in prison, and she is a free woman, not even on parole five years later. Five years later. That is remarkable. That's fucking remarkable. The grass has barely grown on the grave. Wow. That's really remarkable.

That's remarkable, man. Wow. That's really that's remarkable, man. So now at this point, she had a she had a son at that point, and she ends up meeting and marrying Roth, John Frank Roth, the guy we told you about, the unemployed trucker, in 1971. They have four children together. Wow. So, yeah, they pump out the kids, too. So that said, let's head up to 1984 knowing the players here we have fast forward yeah unemployed trucker and convicted of murder uh kind of a young a tough younger life here nine years ago yeah this is a an odd fucking grouping here so on december 26th 1984 this was right after the holiday obviously Christmas is the day before

and Tina Harper Tina Marie Harper is her name Martine Marie Harper she is there the daughter that from the previous relationship that was around when she committed the murder back in 65 so she had been raised by

Sharon's mother who's also named Martine she'd been legally adopted by her and everything, because when Sharon was in prison, she took custody of her. Now, her dad is a trucker, another truck driver. She has a type that Sharon was married to, you know, being pre-20 years old. His name was Larry Hildebrandt. And so Tina first, when she moved to Davenport in 1984, she lived with her father and her father's wife until she she's 21 at this point, by the way, Tina, she moved in with them until she could find a job and try to find a job.

And she's trying to make a life in this area essentially so she went to school in davenport when she was little up until 1975 when her family moved to clarence total she has five brothers and six sisters my god yeah from you know mother's family because her mother had four kids with with frank She had another kid after that, and then her father has a bunch of kids. So a lot of kids running around here. Now, at 16, she's already dropped out of school, Tina. Which, you know what? When you hear about her mother and all that, you go, wow. You know, this is not a – She made it to 16, huh?

She made it to 16. That's pretty impressive. She gets married to a guy named Lloyd Whistler. Yeah? Yeah. Gets married to Lloyd Whistler. Yeah. Yeah. It's married to Lloyd Whistler. They have a child at 16. She's married with a kid at 16.

No murder rap, though, thankfully. So she's not taking after her mom that much. But she, like I said, married, had a child. This child, by the way, will end up very shortly being adopted by the grandmother who raised her oh god that's how that goes that poor grandma's work is never done it's really hard man so um then she has another child tina as well um this one adopted by her mother sharon the, the murderess from earlier. So holy shit. And then then two months before this Christmas in 1984. So in October 1984, Tina has another child. Yeah.

So she has three very young children and she's going to visit the family for Christmas is how it goes here. for Christmas is how it goes here. Her sons are, she has three sons, Lloyd Whistler Jr., Jason Harper, and Robert Harper. So those are her kids. The other two are named after her family, her grandmother's family name. So after working, she drops out of high school,

like we said, and she's having kids and she's married and gets divorced. She begins working full-time as a nurse's aide at the Clarence Nursing Home. school like we said and she's having kids and she's married and gets divorced uh she begins working full-time as a as a nurse's aide at the clarence nursing home okay you know i've got to make a living you know so she's doing something nice no very difficult actually and she receives a high school degree later on from kirkwood college so she ends up taking night classes and gets her gets her diploma that way um she had been like we said living in davenport at this point uh currently in 1984 she'd been working part-time at a hardy's fast food restaurant so good lord part-time at the hardy's is not doing all she can

doing what she can she used to work in the nursing home for a long time and then she got pregnant again and now she's going to work at hardy's for a while um at the nursing home her co-workers said that she they loved her she's very nice and kind but she's also a very troubled young woman they all said she could tell she had obviously yeah um one said quote she was very pleasant and very willing to help she wanted to make friends and didn't have many friends at the nursing home. She, it's odd for a 20 year old not to have a lot of friends at the nursing home. It's, you know, she would have done anything for you, but she was confused. She got in with the wrong crowd. She seemed like she's always lonely too.

So that was her impressions of her while she worked there. So, um, but two years about 1982 she had her own apartment in clarence and she's you know raising her two kids before the third one was born um one worker said she was a very loving giving person when she knew her and said she was an outgoing person she liked to talk to, but it always seemed like she was reaching for something. And she'd give you the shirt off her back if she thought you needed it. That's how I can remember her always from working there.

So that makes sense. Very kind girl. So this year, 1984, her grandma, who is her namesake here, Mrs. Harper, we'll just call her, she lives in Bennett and had driven to the Quad Cities and brought Tina home for the holidays. So there you go.

So she's there for the holidays. She's there Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. And this, okay, she disappears on the 26th at night. She disappears about 8.30. She goes out with John Roth. They go out to get cigarettes and never come back. At least Tina doesn't ever come back. So they said they left and didn't know what was going on.

She says, this is a quote, to my knowledge, everything was fine. And on Christmas Day, the Roths had their own activities while she celebrated at home with Tina and Tina's brother, Chris. So they did their thing. She went to her grandmother's, Tina did on Christmas Day, trying to piece together the timeline. I guess John Jr. was playing Monopoly, he says, with her, with his sister, Tina, and they were playing the game. And about seven thirty, eight o'clock, Tina got up from the table and said she had to go get some cigarettes. So that's how that goes. And I guess Tina walked into the kitchen and John was there, John Roth. And Tina whispered something in Roth's ear and then they walked out the kitchen and john was there john roth and tina whispered something in roth's ear

and then they walked out the back door together and then she was never seen that night again yeah very strange so later that night um tina's mother sharon obviously they'll go look for her and all that sort of thing um it's it's really weird they said they'll go look for her and all that sort of thing um it's it's really weird uh they said they'll go look for her that night um she because what ends up happening he leaves with her obviously john leaves with tina they take off to buy cigarettes he comes back alone all by himself where the fuck's tina right yeah so they end up getting in the car um sharon and john drop the kids off down with the grandmother down the street and they go fucking out to look for tina yeah and so they go so um they didn't find tina so they returned to the mother's house the grandmother's house and got the tina ends up

staying there and he goes home. John goes home. And she said that he checked back in at her mother's house about three, four times to see if she'd heard from Tina yet. And, you know, that was about that that night. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast

that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts so um anyway he got back from going

out with sharon to look for tina about 10 45 p.m john does he gets home uh when he gets home, he picks up, he goes into John Jr.'s room where he picks up a.22 caliber rifle that he had just given John Jr. the day before for Christmas. He picks up the rifle and starts to load it and tells John Jr., I'm going back out to look for Tina and then I'm going hunting also. In the middle of the freezing iowa night pitch black cold post christmas night that's when you want to look for tina if i can't find her i'm gonna get me a deer either one yeah i'm gonna get either a 21 year old or a deer or or try to get me a 21 year old or a 21 pointer we're gonna get some so uh john jr said he saw the father load 22 caliber rifle bullets in he said more than one is all he knew and uh he said he took it from the bedroom the rifle about 10 30 and uh the rifle you know he said that was my christmas present now later on that night a car

similar to in color and design to roth's car was seen on a gravel road out you know away from town about two miles away from town the next day because john jr went to sleep he when his dad was gone the next day his dad tells him hey john jr by the way don't say anything to the gun about the gun to anybody uh quote because it could get me in a lot of trouble what um so john jr says also the other thing that's weird is his dad asked him to when he got the gun that night he said he asked him to retrieve several items from the family's garage that night uh and then later on hide them in the house so he tells him the next day he's like listen you need to go in the garage get a bunch of shit and hide it

these items are wires uh some wires that were formed to shape like handcuffs yeah that's nice a rope the uh the fat end of a baseball bat like a sawed-off baseball bat with just the fat end of a baseball bat, like a sawed-off baseball bat with just the fat end, like a Union strikebreaker in the 30s would fucking carry up their sleeve, and two blankets as well. So, you know, murder accoutrement. You know, murder stuff. Murdery stuff, if you'd find that anywhere. If you found, on the side of the road you open up a paper bag it's got a blanket wire shaped like handcuffs a rope and the fat end of a baseball bat you go

oh god you put that and you throw it to the side i would not touch that again no matter of fact i would take my sleeve and wipe anywhere that i did touch let's go ahead and burn this paper bag i don't know what dna can be transferred on but yeah this here's a murder kit uh so i've seen this before so that's an interesting night that's the whole that's john jr has the weirdest view because he gets to see one minute he's playing monopoly with his sister which is very nice and uh she goes to get cigarettes whispering in her dad's ear, which is weird. He comes back without her. Mom and dad go out looking for Tina.

Dad comes back alone without mom now too. So you're sitting in the house and whenever dad leaves with someone, he comes back alone. And then he gets a rifle. And then he gets a rifle. And then he goes out and then the next day he says, by the way, don't tell he gets a rifle. Yeah. And then he goes out, and then the next day he says,

by the way, don't tell anybody about that rifle, and do me a favor, go in the garage, get these murdery items that I'm going to describe to you, and hide them in your room. Hide them amongst the normal things in the house. Jesus Christ. Do you want to go out for ice cream? Like, what a weird.

Not really. I don't think i do either there so now sharon said she didn't even know that tina and john left together that day she wasn't she was in the other room she said that uh she the last he she heard john said he was going upstairs to take a bath she heard he was going up to take a bath. She heard he was going up to take a bath. He's a bath guy. He's a bath guy, yeah. I mean, he must displace quite a bit of water when he gets in there.

He only fills it up a quarter of the way. About four inches, and then he's like, perfect. And it just goes right up to the side. He is a fucking meatball. He's a meatball, man. The way he's shaped is just, he's not shaped like a normal fat guy. It's a meatball man it's it's the way he's shaped is just he's not shaped like a normal fat guy it's really weird man he's a very strange looking do they show him without a shirt on i wish they did let's let's see him from multiple poses give me like the double

guns yeah you know give me like the one of those like off into this looking up into the sky there is like the the big guy that carries it correctly you know what i mean that doesn't have like the the saggy titties like my stepfather was just a saggy oaf just a fat gross man but there are also the guys that are big that just they just carry it right they're just chubby dude but they they look good just genetically they're just big people but no five like that five nine nearly three bills it's hard to probably not you just can't find a place to put that where it's not going to be you know uncomfortable and uncomfortably that's a lot yeah it's tough uh when you're when you're

maybe that's why he's not trucking now he can't stuff himself into a cab i'm not sure it's tough to get up and down yeah so she sharon said, he was going upstairs to take a bath, and she said that she was in another room of the house feeding Tina's infant son and watching TV with her kids and Tina's kids as well. So she has young kids. Tina has young kids, and she had like five, six kids in this room feeding an infant. has young kids and she, she had like five, six kids in this room feeding an infant. Uh,

as far as she knows, Tina's playing Monopoly with John and, um, you know, or with John jr. And then John is taking a bath. So it's a nice night in the holidays here. So anyway, um,

the next morning, you know, Tina still hasn't turned up yet. Uh, but a guy named Dwayne Dirks, Dwayne Dirks, he's a farmer from outside Clarence there. He ends up calling the cops that morning and saying that he found something that they need to see. And when they show up, they find on the side of a road about two miles, mile and a half to two miles outside of Clarence, they find Tina Harper laying off the side of the road.

And she is fully clothed and dead. She has been shot seven times. Oh, that's too many. Three times in the chest, three times in the head, and once at the base of the skull oh wow like an execution style shot here um it's the later on they'll decide that the death occurred sometime between 8 30 p.m and midnight somewhere in there uh she died as a result of close range rifle fire blasts three to. Three to the forehead. One to the base of the skull.

Three to the chest. That is fucking brutal, man. It's a lot. That is goddamn brutal. So this is like a big deal because it's like still the holidays, man. So people in this town are not expecting murder news at this point. They're trying to smell cinnamon rolls bacon. This is crazy. So people freak out in this town are not expecting murder news at this point. They're trying to smell cinnamon rolls bacon. This is crazy. So people freak out in this town.

No one more than Tina Harper's grandma, Mrs. Harper here, the namesake who raised her, she says something terrible. I mean, it's all terrible, but she's talking. She says it's inconceivable that anyone can do something like that to her. She said that I'm afraid. They asked her who she thinks did it, and she said, I'm afraid I'm going to say things I wish I hadn't. That's Midwestern right there. That's Midwestern.

I'm afraid I'm going to say something I'll regret later, and then they actually don't say anything. Most people would say that and then go on to accuse someone of murder. Right. So she's talking about she was going to drive her home back to where she lived. She said, I was going to take her back the day she didn't come back. So Tina's dad, this poor bastard, like I said, Larry, is a 46-year-old truck driver who doesn't find out until he's sitting at a Chicago truck stop on the road and reads it in the newspaper. Oh, no. That's how he found out his daughter was murdered.

That is, that's got to be the worst. At a Chicago truck stop. Yeah, I would say. And then he went in the back and arm wrestled Sylvester Stallone for the title and won. That's terrible. Poor bastard. I guess it's the media's responsibility

is to notify next of kin, not every kin, but still give that a day. You got to put the telephone chain through your own family. You know what I mean? Like you have to, I would think that they would,

Sharon's first call should be to Larry. Yeah, I would hope. You know what I mean? Like you have to. I would think that they would. Sharon's first call should be to should be Larry. Yeah, I would hope. You know what I mean? But no one calls Larry. I don't know if it's just felt to slip through the cracks or what, but no one tells him. And he finds out. Plus, maybe he was on the road and they couldn't get a hold of him. Yeah, that's the other.

There's no cell phones in 1984. No, but there are CB radios and you could call dispatch. You can call dispatch and say, hey, emergency, you got to call your ex-wife. And yeah, that's true. They could have got a hold of him. Or have him call you and give him this information. You know what I mean? Something.

If I'm not going to give it to him, at least somebody let the poor bastard know before he reads the fucking Chicago Tribune. That's fucking horrible. He stood up, became so angry that he broke the truck stop mirror the big fucking mirror behind the counter he threw something at it and freaked out yeah those are really strong usually absolutely and had to be restrained by two other truckers they had to hold him down because he started like freaking out and he was screaming that's my daughter that's my daughter pointing at the fucking paper going look i, I'm fucking obviously justified. Let me allow his mom.

Tina's other grandma said, quote, he's a very emotional person. He loves kids, whether he loves kids or not. His daughter's dead. He loved that kid. I don't care how he feels about any other child. A little more than most of them. Yeah. He said that.

And then he had to tell his mother because nobody told her either. So he told grandma about this and asked how she was. He was taking the news. Grandma said, quote, Let's put it this way. I wouldn't want to be within arm's reach of him right now because he's a little uptight. You think? Yeah. I can't see how then she says this this i get what she's saying but my god

jesus christ this is phrasing already uptight this this lady is the way her language is odd here yeah let's put it this way i wouldn't want to be within arm's reach of him because he's uptight then he said then she says this and i quote i can't see how a person can waste a life as young as hers. One bullet, maybe, but not five or six. What the fuck does that mean, Grandma? What? I guess it's the same as me saying that's too many, but Jesus, lady. I get wanting to kill her, but I mean, that's a little much, right?

Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, no, one bullet, maybe, but I mean, not five or six. What? Wow. That's, again, technically correct, but why would you phrase it like that? Also, he's upset, not uptight. Yeah, he's upset, not uptight.

He's a little uptight, and she's like rolling her eyes like, This fucking guy never heard of murder before. Never had a daughter slaughtered in the street, stuck on the side of a gravel road before what the fuck real uptight about it i mean jesus i i could see one bullet but five six i mean i get where he's coming from and then she said that tina was quote a beautiful girl with dark black hair that's those are her she's beautiful i could shooting one bullet, but maybe not five or six. That's her. And my son is uptight.

That's her general. That's what she gives to the paper here. She's raising that woman's daughter, too. Her son. No, that's the other one. That's the other one. Don't both of them have one? No.

No, they don't. No. Sharon has one of Tina's kids, and mrs harper sharon's mother has the other one oh this isn't mrs harper this is no this is this is hilda brandt's mom yeah this is the trucker's mom got it that's how she knows he's uptight because she's his mom so otherwise she's like i don't know i haven't talked to that motherfucker in years i have no idea how he's feeling about it my ex-son-in-law. Is he still uptight? He used to be.

He used to be pretty uptight, I'm not going to lie. So now they talk to Adeline Roth. Okay, Adeline Roth is John's mom. A lot of grandparents involved here. Three different grandmas so far we're putting into the mix. Average age is 51, James. That's what I mean. I apologize, everyone, if you're getting confused on the grandmas, but it's Jimmy, ask any questions. You've got to be the voice of the audience here.

Ask any questions if you're confused with whose grandma is it anyway type of deal. Just say that. Whose grandma is it? Shout that out. That's a fun game show. It's a fun game show. It's a fun game show. You get to decide. So John Roth's mom starts at this point.

They start talking because the cops are talking to everybody in the whole family. And all Adeline can talk about is some disturbing violent behavior in Sharon Roth's past. I don't know. Sharon, she's pretty violent. in Sharon Roth's past. I don't know. Sharon, she's pretty violent. She talked about the incident where she had a shot

where Sharon shot them with a shotgun because that's her that she shot at. She shot at me with a shotgun. And that's really, if your wife and mother are shooting at each other,

that is bad. Like you need your wife and your mother to get along to a certain extent. Yeah. But not gunplay. That's too much. Like even if they don't like each other, just pretend at certain extent yeah but not gunplay that's too much like even if they

don't like each other just pretend at christmas but wow gunplay jesus christ i thought my mother and ex-wife fought a lot this is crazy so both uh she she did that and rott's mother said that she was in the truck when obviously that shooting happened she also told the police officer about the incident that uh the incident the police officer that was there for the incident said an impact mark on the truck appearing to have been caused by a shotgun that's what he noted it as in his report shotgun blast to the side of the truck and uh this was the same guy who investigated the report of sharon roth ramming the car into the truck near South Sioux City, Nebraska in August 1983. So they were told about that where they lived too, so that's pretty funny.

They called up and go, you got a couple of people over there, and let me tell you what they've been doing over here. So she said that Sharon Roth – now Sharon Roth tells police, I've never even shot a gun before. Oh, Sharon. When they talk to her about her daughter, they're like, well, you know, would you have any reason to hurt your daughter? And she's like, I've never even shot a gun before. Meanwhile, she's been convicted of murder, which we don't know if she pulled the trigger in that. But still, she fired a shotgun at her mother-in-law and fucking husband like and it's a god there's a police report knowing about that aware of your

gun firing history you've done it you've certainly done it you've done some toting so we know about that she also says that um she acknowled, yes, she did ram her truck into her car into her husband's truck to stop her husband from taking her children, she said. But then she conceded she does have mental problems also. So that might have contributed to it. So she said it was probably a little bit of both. And then she went in an institution for a while after that. So she said that might have contributed to it. for a while after that.

So she said that might have contributed to it. So Adeline Roth, John's mother, said that her son was, quote, afraid to go to sleep at night for fear that Sharon was going to do away with them all. He had told, I guess he had told his mother, relayed to her threats from Sharon that Sharon had told him, and then later on, Sharon confirmed it with Adeline that she was

going to turn the gas on at night and everybody was going to die what that was a terrible threat that's a threat um she also uh Adeline Roth also says that she recalls seeing Sharon Roth beating Tina during the time when she was a teenager before they had moved to Sioux City and all of that. So Sharon Roth denies that she was beating Tina at any point. So there you go. Now, the next day after this is the day that Tina's body is found here, Sharon said that John's acting weird. He's acting, quote, peculiar and crying all the time.

Which, I mean, the crying would make sense. His stepdaughter was just found murdered on the side of the road. I'd cry. Everybody deals with grief differently. Yeah, that's worth a cry, you know. She said also while making funeral arrangements for her daughter that she was interrupted by a telephone call from John and he wanted her to ask her mother for money so that he could travel to Sioux City.

And she said the family had no money because they're on welfare, and their money's gone this month. So we don't have any money. So that's how that goes. So December 28, 1984. This is a couple days later now the police this is the day after they find tina now the police are like a we need to look around your house to see if you know tina left any trail of breadcrumbs maybe she left behind a phone number of somebody that she was going to go see who knows or a note or a note or maybe if there's like murder weapons we'll check it all you never know yeah so december 28th 1984 they search the roth basement and what they find

is a rifle uh several boxes of 22 caliber shells which by the way were hidden as well this is all hidden this isn't like out in the open he doesn't have it like up on the wall this is hidden the rifle was broken down and in a bag okay it was broken down the rifle yeah he took it apart taken apart completely jesus that's a bad sign at all no uh not at all um later on and we do confirm that it was a.22 rifle that Tina was killed with, seven shots from a.22. And now he denies everything. I don't know anything about the murder. I don't know shit about shit.

I'm John. I don't know nothing else. That's all I know. He said that, I don't know, talk to Sharon. She might have done something. Her and Tina were always fighting. Who knows? But not me.

I don't know shit about it. So while they're talking to him, the next day, he says that, this is amazing, he tells the cops that, I have to leave town, so I'm not going to be around to answer any questions. Because they're like, can we talk to you? And he's like, well, I'm super busy. He said he has to go to Sioux City because my sister and her son just died in a car accident in Nebraska. Oh, my. So I got to get over there.

My mother, her health isn't good, so I have to help do the arrangements and all that. It's been a bad week, really. Sounds like it. Jesus. Terrible week. Terrible week. Although the problem is the police then called his mother, and his mother went, no, they're fine.

Everybody's alive, and I feel just fine fine so this was a lie yeah did he not think the cops were going to check up on that evidently not he thought that they were just he'd slip out the back door and they go five years later they'd be like whatever happened to that one fellow we was talking to about that remember when we found that girl on the side of the road? Remember when a sister died in a car accident? We should call him again. What ever happened to him? You just threw the case in the garbage? Oh, well, I guess we're moving on.

Is that what he thought was going to happen? It's murder, dude. They're going to follow up. A death investigation. They're going to make phone calls and then check up on some stuff. If you give a story, they'll see if you're lying. That's how it is. So they said there was no accident.

There was no nothing, anything like that. Then the other thing, while they're talking to him, he hadn't been told that a 22 caliber rifle was the murder weapon. He just said they just told him Tina was found shot on the side of the road. They didn't tell him what the hell the caliber was. It could have been a 357 handgun. Could have been a shotgun. Could have been anything. So he didn't tell him what the hell the caliber was. It could have been a.357 handgun. It could have been a shotgun. It could have been anything. So he didn't know anything.

But he said he was naming off to the cops going, well, you should talk to this person and you should talk to that person. These were all people he was naming off that all have.22 rifles that might have done it. And they're like, they're all looking at each other they didn't say shit they let him talk let him talk he doesn't realize it yeah you want some coffee john sure we'll go get some coffee and they went outside and they're like you tell them about the 22 nope you tell them about the 22 i didn't tell him shit okay well then um interesting that he would no one told him huh wow he seems to know quite a bit, actually. So they do the ballistics on the whole thing, and they find that the bullets recovered from her body had been fired from the.22 caliber rifle that they found in the basement of his house. The dismantled one.

The dismantled one, absolutely. caliber Marlin rifle had the, you know, the, the riflings and grooves and all that shit there and a Remington manufactured 22 caliber ammunition were all similar and all the match. So there's that. Now, when asked about the guns in the house, when they first got there to search, they asked Roth, do you have any guns in the house? And he said, I own a 12 gauge shotgun, but that's it. It's all I have. And so they ended up finding the rifle and he said i own a 12 gauge shotgun but that's it that's all i have and so they ended up finding the rifle and the shotgun all in the same bag and a 20 gauge shotgun as well too so i don't know anything about anything else other than my own shotgun that i keep with all these other guns that i keep with all these other guns that's what i mean and they're like so it's in there with

the two other guns the cops are like later on they go how was he why would he say that because you he had to know the next thing was can we see that gun right he had to know that was it he wasn't we weren't just going to go well that's not the one we're looking for never mind thanks john have a good one we're looking for a 22 we're gonna move along we're moving along i guess he thought that's what it was he thinks he's fucking smarter than he is, I think. He thinks that just by saying the words and giving the story, they just take that as gospel and they go, okay, well, that's that. He only has a shotgun and his sister's dead. Just let him take care of stuff.

We'll move on to somebody else. We will not corroborate whether or not that's true. No, no, no, not at all. So they they also said that when they're about Tina's body here, they found the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation Laboratory said that they believed that Tina was killed on the road near Clarence where the body was found. So she wasn't transported. Ah, fuck. He based the opinion on finding seven.22 caliber bullet casings near her body. That's a good thing.

Right there, yeah. And melted ice under the body indicating that it was warm when it fell. When it sat down, yeah. So, yeah, if you dump someone who's been dead for 12 hours on the ground, it's not really going to melt the ice like that. So they said the pattern of gunpowder in front of the body as well, they found, is like a trail to the rifle, basically, when it falls. So they said that they, yeah, she's discovered on the gravel road, and they're continuing to investigate. When they talk to John Jr., by the way, they find out that, yeah, we'll get to John Jr.

Hold on. I'm going to hold off on him for a second. Monopoly kid? Monopoly kid, yeah. Because he's the key to the whole thing, Monopoly kid. Because this kid had quite the evening. So there's a witness here, a woman named Deborah Wagner. She said she saw an automobile that fit the description of Roth's car at about 1130 at night on the night of Tina's death near

the place the body was found. This would be an hour after he stopped home and picked up a rifle from his son and loaded it. So the witness saw him driving a green car, which is the Roth's family car at the time he left his home at the night in question. This is somebody near his house, saw him driving away that direction as well so um and then you know a little while later that same green car is seen out on the gravel road where tina was okay so they want to question him formally they want to take him in and sit him down the police do so um at this point by the way it's been a couple days he's moved already john has yeah he's already trying like trying to get his shirt he hasn't moved yet he's trying to move he's moved already john has yeah he's already trying like trying to get his shirt

he hasn't moved yet he's trying to move he's getting his stuff to leave and move already like he's trying to take off so they call him in for questioning he comes in voluntarily as they're talking to him he starts becoming very angry as he says that they're they're you're becoming accusatory at this point. This is crazy. Now you're starting to make me feel uncomfortable just because I had the disassembled murder weapon in my house. That's just to make me feel a little uncomfortable. So he suggested that, hey, what about Sharon's younger brother, Chris? He owns a.22 caliber rifle, and he said that he lives a couple blocks down the street.

He could have done it. What about him? He also said that that was he they didn't know the type of gun yet so it was pretty funny under cross-examination uh no that's cross-examination cross uh when they're talking to him why do they say cross-examination interrogation not examination there you go they talk about how you know why would you tell us to go find the shotgun when there's a rifle in there either you're dumb or you're trying to tell us something which one is it you know what i mean so obviously he doesn't say he's dumb he's saying well maybe i told you to do that so that way you maybe you'd find the real person that did it so he's trying to say look at sharon basically is his whole thing like you know someone in the house could have done it. Wink, wink. Hint, hint.

Yeah. Yeah, hint, hint. He said that at that point, he's like, okay, fine. You know, he said that Sharon told me she killed Tina. Okay, you beat it out of me. You beat it out of me, guys. I didn't want to say it, but she told me. She said, I killed Tina, is what happened here.

I killed Tina. She said, quote, when Sharon gets in these mood it, but she told me. She said, I killed Tina is what happened here. I killed Tina. She said, quote, when Sharon gets in these moods, she gets very violent. You never know what she's going to do. You just got to go along with it. She killed her daughter. Yeah. Well, they said, well, why would she do that, man? Why? Why?

She's home for three days. She's leaving the next day to go back home. She doesn't have to see her till Easter or whatever the fuck. You know what I mean? Like, why would she possibly do that and he says well that's a whole other thing um oh let me tell you why um yeah there's a reason why and it'll make a lot of sense once i tell you everybody so sit down and grab yourself some coffee and light up smoke them if you got them gentlemen um he said that she killed her daughter because she quote caught us having sex oh me and tina yeah caught us having sex and then sharon killed tina because of it

so i didn't want to say anything because i felt bad but that that's what happened that's what it is i'm having sex with my stepdaughter you You know, all of that. So the lab analyst concludes that Roth had had sex with Tina sometime before that, actually. So that is true. They had had sex and that they found traces of his semen, you know, on, you know, in her on her when places where it would go. And crevices, clothing, a blanket, a bed sheet found at the Roth's home on a bed. So this didn't happen like on the side of the road in the gravel. This happened at the house. This definitely happened.

So he admits to that. And they also they also go in and they try to find there's analysis of his handwriting. And it indicates that he wrote a message on their own car, their own family car, the previous year there, which was it was threatening to the Roths, saying that we're going to kill you because Tina's here. So it was he wrote that is what they find out. He wrote it on. He's trying to get her out of the house. Trying to. Yeah.

Apparently trying to get someone to feel like Tina shouldn't come to the house, even though he was having sex with her. It's very weird. So the Roths suspected they went to the cops and said, we suspect two different families were having disagreements with, obviously, because a family like this is going to have disagreements with neighbors at some point. You just know it. So here is something from a local newspaper. This is a local small town paper. A a lot of them they live for this type of

shit because they're going to sell copies now you know what i mean so they make it as just as salacious and as shitty as possible so this is from uh where is this this is from the quad city times here okay this is uh may or uh march 18th 1985 who. Who killed Martine Tina Harper? Was it her stepfather, John Roth, as the police contend? Or was it her jealous mother, as the defense contends, who had just learned of sexual relations between the young woman and Roth? Or did the butler do it after all? They're on welfare. This is just, stop being corny.

they're on welfare this is just stop being corny stay tuned folks for the next titillating installment of murder in cedar county brought to you by the midwest's most exciting newspaper the quad city times yeah um that is fucking ridiculous absolutely ridiculous here um exciting yeah very exciting so based on his interview um oddly enough they don't buy the fact that sharon caught them having sex then killed her own daughter even though he was the one who went out with with her and came home and got a rifle from his son so oddly they're not buying it and at the end of the interrogation they go you know what john we're gonna go ahead and arrest you we i just got a bad feeling about you pal and we're gonna put some cuffs on you and then figure it out from there i got a bad feeling and a good feeling the bad feeling is that you murdered

somebody the good feeling i have is that i solved this case i think i solved the case and i feel like if i don't put you in cuffs you're gonna take off somewhere you're not gonna have another one to solve one of the two probably you got any other stepdaughters yes you do okay i don't like this i don't like where this is going so he's being held at the cedar county jail here for a while this is uh he's there for a couple months waiting for you know whatever 48 days he's there waiting for court so he's sitting there at one point the assistant jailer dale cook comes in he's 65 years old by the way dale cook dale cook the assistant jailer he's 65 he comes in to unclog the sink in roth's cell the sinks ply comes in to do some light plumbing over here um

he's gonna snake out his sink real quick. He does this. Now, also present is not only Dale Cook, but Cook's wife, Jean, who's 64, is also a county jailer there. She works there, too. It's a nice. This is a couple that, like, greets you at Walmart, not runs a jail. You know what I'm saying? I just picture this couple, like, bringing in, like, baked goods in the morning. you had enough okay these are nice young boys i'll tell you something just a just a group of we have a nice group of young men here right yeah this is wonderful they stand at the gates welcome to county waving hi come on in y'all today's three hots in the cot come on in y'all three hots in the cot come on this way

wow so yeah salisbury steak and cornbread oh i made it myself so that's who's that's who's guarding the jail dale and jean a married couple who are 65 years old are guarding the fucking jail mid-60s married couples which your picture your grandparents everybody should they run a jail you think should they be in charge of keeping inmates from escaping i don't think so or this is a stephen king book and this is uh how they get their victims that's they get their victims or they're cursed to stay here forever you know what i mean well their younger selves keep getting jailed and they're like trying to explain not to get in trouble to their younger selves, but they keep doing it. Holy shit, yeah.

So they finally do something horrible enough to end up stuck in this jailer old person suit. I think I just wrote a Stephen King book. So I think we got this, Jimmy. So they go in to unclog the sink and, uh, Jean follows her husband into the cell. And so you want to get, you know, both of them in there and was just about to lock him in Roth cell while he fixed,

fixed the sink. When just as that happened, John Roth pushes Dale cook aside because he's 65 and then shoves his elderly wife out of the way and fucking not elderly, 64, but still shoves. She's a senior citizen. Let's just put it that way. I'm not saying that 65 year old people can't do stuff. They can do stuff, but they shouldn't try to keep 35 year old murderers in their prison cells.

Probably that's probably the best job for them. 300 pound men who just take a step and lean. You're bowling over a 64 year old lady with osteoporosis probably over here this is a fucking ridiculous so he does that shoves her aside and uh forces the door open so gene cook runs uh from roth and attempts to lock the doors between the cell area and the adjacent house. It connects to a house, Jimmy. They live in the fucking. They're like it's they're like people that run a storage facility.

Yeah. They live in the fucking house next door. And then they go and go into the jail. Yeah. She can go in. Oh, I got a pie in the oven. I'll be right back. And she can go in and check it.

And this is right. This is small town right oven. I'll be right back. And she can go in and check it. Jesus Christ. This is small town right here. This is small town murder. I suppose this is better than like a privatized for-profit prison. But this is the jailers are a nice older couple who live on premises and just fucking keep the jail like it's a fucking bed and breakfast in Vermont somewhere. This is ridiculous, man. This is not how the criminal justice system should be running, I don't think.

So she goes and attempts to lock the door where the cooks live, like I said, but Roth got to the doors first before she could lock them. Then he grabbed a hold of Jean Cook by the throat. Yeah, she went chasing, so so he said you want to come with me so bad let's go and he asked her to give him a gun she said i don't have a gun so then he said well then give me your car keys so she gave him the car keys and while continuing to hold her by the throat he walks out the kitchen door and toward the garage oh boy there's a there's a you got the kitchen door then you're outside and then the garage is boy there's a there's a you got the kitchen door then you're

outside and then the garage is a separate building so he's got her by the throat she there's like a foot of snow on the ground she fucking trips in the snow and falls down so he just leaves her there and keeps going yeah right which is good move on her part anyway if i would have fell down too he's not what's he gonna do Come on and help a 65-year-old lady up and then walk her. She could have just said, I can't move my hip. What are you supposed to do? I certainly wouldn't be giving my best effort to walk if I did this to me.

I'd be very, nope, it's lumpy. I can't do it. It's slippery. Oh boy, I didn't wear my galoshes today. So she fell down. He just takes off without her. Then Jean Cook gets up and quickly, because she's spry, she gets up and runs into the house, calls the sheriff's department, which is just a few blocks away from the jail, right? So in the meantime, while all this crazy shit's going on, Dale Cook, her husband, the other jailer, had gotten out of the cell area, went and got his gun. the cell area went and got his gun and then roth was coming back toward the house from the garage when dale cook is there with his gun in his face he fucking walks right into dale cook with his gun

pointed at him there yeah and uh he just holds him at gunpoint till the sheriffs arrive and then he's he's put in he was the only prisoner in the jail at the time of the escape. They had one prisoner. I don't mean to put it on them. I get that they shouldn't be doing this, but they had one person. It's not like we were distracted by the chaos of all these people. There was more jailers than criminals, Jimmy. They literally lost control of 100% of their prisoners. Yeah.

How often are the fucking jailers outnumbering the inmates if you can outnumber the inmates you should that jail should run like clockwork man i'm sorry because it's like 50 to 1 you know prisoner to inmate most big jails these state jails and prisons and shit this is crazy one guy couldn't keep them in there. Maybe this is why. I don't know. Maybe those ones are, maybe it's better to have them outnumbered. You know, this is,

I don't even know what to say about that. I guess they could get complacent. They're on their toes. Yeah. Maybe the prisoners are just like, you know, we wouldn't, we'd look like, we'd look like a bunch of sissies if the,

if the 3000 of us took over six guys. That's not fair. What do we need? 3000? guys that's not fair what do we three thousand it's just not fair you know what i mean i don't like that yeah you know what i'm about fairness really i honor and sportsmanship involved in this yeah that's what it is it's like if we're hunting we should give the deer weapons you know i feel like it'd be more fair so yeah i think yeah maybe if they're super outnumbered they will be more on their toes more worried where if it's just me and you and it's like oh there's a nice young man in cell

number three that's fine jimmy's got it she's making doilies and shit all over the place so many doilies in this jail cell it's very strange people just jerking off into them here you go here's a mop rag for you young man i made it special made you a cleanup yep every guy when you walk in you're issued like a bedroll a uniform you get like a toothbrush a bar of soap and she gives you a doily jizz rock jizz rag and puts it right on top go make a rock out of this i gave you two just in case she because just in case i don't know if you're a you're extra energetic you're new i don't know what you've been up to on the outside so you know use them no go ahead and get them done i'll i'll make another just

leave them outside and i'll come and collect them in the morning like a hotel so she says at this point there's a right after this like the next day there is an article in the newspaper talking about her not sure she doesn't want not sure she wants to be a jailer anymore i'm sure it's done yeah the career would be over for me too yeah she said the only thing running through her mind was that this guy has nothing to lose he's an accused murderer which that's a good good thing to think and he's leading you around by your throat that's a good good thing to think. And he's leading you around by your throat. That's not good. No. And she said that she started thinking about maybe quitting over this. She says they really have no secure facilities here for a hardened criminal.

I really think it's our type. I really think our type of criminal is getting worse, even in our community. So, yeah, they're set up for like, you know, we found you drinking and you were shit-faced, sleep it off over here. This is like the Mayberry Jail. This isn't set up for a fucking murderer. It's just not. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So she said, she goes, talks about all of it,

and she says that, you know, Roth asked me for my car keys, I gave them to him, and then he decided I was going to go with him. She said that she slipped on some ice, and then she fled to the house. She said the whole thing. She describes herself as a fairly level-headed person, but she said she was crying and hysterical after this whole ordeal. Oh, I'm sure. I don't blame her.

Yeah. She said now she's and hysterical after this whole ordeal. Oh, I'm sure. I don't blame her. Yeah. She said now she's ready to call it quits and move with her husband to Muscatine. Muscatine? Muscatine? Muscatine? I don't know what the fuck it is. Where he will work as a civil defense director for the Muscatine, Muscatine, whatever the shit, and Cedar Counties. No longer there.

So that's how it works. She said, yeah, she said there needs to be more things going on. Put in a two-week notice. He ends up, yeah, more secure facilities. He ends up pleading guilty to jail escape, actually. They charge him with that. He escaped from custody, assault while participating in the felony of escape from custody, escape from custody assault while participating in the felony of escape from custody and going armed with intent uh and then going armed with intent after that because he had picked up some

kind of fucking shit they did drop the second degree kidnapping charge if he that was nice if he uh pled to that so now he goes to court and you think it's been weird so far now it gets really weird okay here we go he goes to court now first of all in the pre-trial deposition sharon testifies that she had this is in a deposition never fired a gun of any kind ever ever which we know isn't true now so based on this because this is the deposition that's going to go into the testimony, he says, well, if she says that, then I should be able to introduce her 1965 murder into the case to say that she's an alternate suspect. Because she lied about never firing a gun. So to prove that she has fired a gun, we have to bring this up. All right. So that's the whole argument that they're going to argue about here that, you know,

because it doesn't look good for her at that moment. You know, murder certainly looks bad when a man's been shot through the heart. It's yeah, it's not great. So the state it's a state motion to state puts up a motion to exclude this here, saying that evidence that would substantiate that Sharon had predisposition, ability and tendency to commit the crime, such a crime and having committed murder would be more likely to do so again. That's what Roth is putting forward legally here.

He argued the evidence he sought to establish would present the jury a fact which the state cannot deny and which would bear directly on the issue which was that teenum was murdered by sharon roth and not himself here he uh yeah he said based on sharon's deposition she would testify a trial that she'd never fired a gun of any kind and that was critical to his case to that he established her capability and knowledge in using a firearm by examining her concerning by examining the 1965 murder trial in which a 22 caliber handgun was used this is a rifle but same caliber so um as we told you before so um additionally he said he should be permitted to impeach her with evidence of that conviction as

well and he also should be permitted to ask his son John who would be a state witness whether he was aware of his mother's murder conviction and whether he was scared of her in order to establish that John was lying because he's in fear of his mother okay yes because they talked to John and John talks about how

when his dad came home with the rifle and broke it down he tried to hide it in a vent in John Jr.'s room, but the pieces were too big. They don't fit through the grate, right. So, yeah, he couldn't get it in there, so that's when he put it with the other shotgun, two shotguns in a bag behind a sofa in the basement.

So John Jr., watching his dad do this, has to be has to be this is pathetic like he has to look and be like jesus this is awful man this poor bastard fucking pathetic so they said that um you can introduce evidence of other crimes if the evidence is relevant to a legitimate issue involved in the case and uh if there's clear proof uh the individual against whom the evidence is offered committed the prior crime here's where the state's going to say the state says that look we can't have that into here because we don't know if she pulled the trigger on that right yeah so if we do that this is going to turn into two murder trials because then we have to re yeah reprove that to prove we have to yeah re-adjudicate the fucking uh you know the the entire walter adams murder to prove that she shot it and then we

and it's still all the evidence points to john though so what are we doing yeah and the judge agreed he said yeah we can't have this is going to be fucking chaos we're going to the whole trial is going to be about another murder that happened 20 years ago. That's already done and closed and she already served her 12 weeks. She served her six months at summer camp and she's ready to go. And I think the guy, though, Miller, he ended up serving like 15 years, I think I want to say, or 10 years or something in that murder. So they both were convicted of it. So in this trial, it is a six men and six women jury here um so you got a half and half a nice even jury for him in the defense opening the uh the defense attorney here he says that uh there's two sides to every

story ladies and gentlemen first of all okay my client's bullshit stuff and what actually happened yeah he said that my our version will substantiate all but one of the state's assertions including um they definitely were there was a sexual it's not nice but there was a sexual relationship between the stepdaughter and the stepfather here that's what happened so i mean we know that uh but we also know that Sharon was, quote, emotionally disturbed in recent years. She's been acting violently. She's attempted suicide. She's, you know, shot at her fucking husband and her mother-in-law.

She's rammed into a car with her son, all this type of shit. And she said that, and now the lawyer said, and now she went too far after catching her husband and her daughter having sex. She couldn't take it anymore, and the violence finally erupted. And this is what happens here. So he told the jurors that he would present evidence striking down the key testimony by John Jr. as well, saying that he's just making false statements

linking his father to the murder weapon because that's what his mother, who he's terrified of, told him to say. That's what happens. So Sharon testifies here. Her testimony is big. This is a major part of it. They said that the state asks her, did you catch your husband and your daughter having sex?

And she said no. And she said until this, she never had a clue that they were having sex. Oh. No clue. She said never even crossed my mind. Never crossed my mind. Didn't even think about it. So, you know, because that's completely a scummy fucking, the scummiest thing you can

do. To bang your stepdaughter? That's pretty gross. 21? I don't care if she's 35. You can't bang your stepdaughter. That's the grossest thing you could possibly do. He's close in age to her in terms of-

14 years. It's certainly legal, yeah. If they weren't step-fucking family, then yeah, it'd be great. It'd be fine. If she didn't receive Christmas gifts from him as her father. Love dad, then this would be weird. Then it would be just, oh, he's immature, she's mature, and they meet in the middle. That's no problem.

But no, this isn't that. Or, you know, he's like an actor or something. Some fucking bullshit. No. Some comedian. Some comedian. She then says that, actually, if I had discovered them having sexual relations, there would have been someone dying, but I would have shot John, not my daughter. Yeah, yeah.

That's what she said. That's the answer. Yeah. She said that, she said, quote, I would have shot John. Tina was my baby. I carried her inside of me. I don't really love John, though. So, okay.

Thanks. What the fuck is happening? I used to until this, but not now. Thanks. What a weird thing. I used to until this, but not now. She said that she definitely didn't kill her daughter and then frame her husband. That definitely didn't happen because they asked her, did you do that? She said that she didn't know about the sexual relationship at all until after the death, until she heard about the science of it. And she said she considered leaving Roth several times, but just stayed with heard that the you know about the science of it yeah and she

said she considered leaving roth several times but just stayed with him for the kids was the quote so now the defense attorney he contends that sharon intimidated john jr into implicating john senior and uh meanwhile she denies that and so does john Jr. She said, Sharon said that, quote, because John Jr. What happened was John Jr. lied to the cops at first and said, I don't know. I didn't see any gun. I didn't see anything. But then he told his mom that dad came in with the gun and told her what happened. And Sharon said, you have to tell the cops that shit.

You can't keep that. And he said, I didn't want my father to get in trouble, which is fair. As he said, I saw the dad with the gun and I figured that he had something to do with it and I didn't want him to get in trouble. So I lied to the cops. Now, that's actually a good thing to do. The defense attorney's trying to twist it to make it sound like you help. You made like John Junior's a liar. So, you know, he's lying about everything. If he lied to the cops and keep his mom out of trouble. Exactly. That that's why because he's afraid of you because you rammed into him with a car that's that's their whole thing so shot at nana and shot at noni so

she said uh she also denied having threatened him and um yeah and also denied that she killed her daughter there so son comes up here's john jr here he's the like the the key witness in the real linchpin yeah he's the one he's the one who ties her to the ties him to the murder weapon so he uh john jr told everybody here that that uh his father had him retrieve several items from the family's garage and hide them in the house. And he told him what that was, the handcuff, wire things, a rope, baseball bat, blunt edge, and two blankets. They said in cross-examination, why didn't you tell the cops immediately about all of this? And he said, my father told me not to tell anyone. You know, I mean.

Easy, yeah. He's 13, man. Like, dad said don't, that's why and do what dad says i figured he just killed that bitch so i didn't want to be next you know what i'm saying wink wink you know what i mean like come on she said something sweet to him in his ear obviously yeah this is a motherfucker for that came home sands a whole person and disassembled a rifle you think i'm gonna fucking get in his face and start talking shit would you i'm not asking a single fucking question hey dad nice to see you yeah i just opened my fucking you know my silver surfer and started reading i have no

interest in this shit so thank you for me you know for me uh he said he was protecting his father because he thought that his dad had something to do with tina's death that's why so that didn't go well that cross-examination here so he they attempt to show that he's afraid of his mother and because of that fear he would lie for her just like he's saying now that he was he would lie for his father there he admitted that he didn't tell police about the activities of his father until encouraged to do so by his mother he also had to testify that he was aware of sharon's suicide attempts and uh that he was scared by those but he wasn't scared of his mother

and he said that his mother never threatened him or asked him to lie and he also said he loved his dad they said do you love your dad and he said yes so there you go now is he gonna testify senior or not john he's got to right absolutely has to he's going he has to he has to explain this shit yeah you gotta hear you gotta say something sir you've twisted quite the tale yeah in your you can't be some silent being sitting there saying that my wife caught me banging my stepdaughter so she killed my stepdaughter and dumped her on the side of the road and here i am that you can't my son saw me disassemble a weapon that had been proven to be the murder weapon i had nothing to do with it you gotta you gotta say it that's very tommy boy if

you're gonna sell those brake pads you gotta do it in person you tommy boy if you're gonna sell those brake pads you gotta do it in person you can't just call up you better go on a yeah grab david spade jump in the car and go from coast to coast on this shit stick your head up a butcher's ass come on let's go get a good look at a t-bone by sticking my head up a butcher's ass or sticking my head up the cow's ass but i'd rather take it it's gotta be your cow wait it's gotta be your cow ah damn it yeah exactly so uh i think it's like that i think that's what he said so anyway the um he ends up testifying here which is obviously the the highlight of the whole thing everybody's like here we go this will be juicy yeah so he first thing they ask is, did you kill Tina Harper? Obviously.

And he said, no, I did not kill Tina Harper. Well, all right, let's pack it up, everybody. I think that's good, right? You've heard it here, folks. We're all buying that, right? Okay, yeah. Jerry says good. Wrap it up, everyone.

Case closed. Call the newspaper. Tell them to write some salacious shit about that. His version of the night uh nights events are a little bit different than his wife and his kids here he said that on the night in question he said his wife was outraged after learning that he and tina had been having sex in the bathroom that night oh boy that's what he said he went to take a bath and- Oh, see, man? Baths are so sexy. Got some fucking going on.

They didn't fuck in the bath. They fucked on the bathroom floor, which is way less sexy. Yeah. There's nothing good about a bathroom floor. You have to be so ill that you think you're going to die to sit on a bathroom floor. Like, to just sit here. I don't care anymore. But to fuck on it man wow

how sick are you when you finally sit down there and you're like fuck it yeah it's pretty bad you're laying down with you i don't even want to live yeah i don't care whatever's down here can't get me any sicker than i am already it doesn't matter anymore i'm not gonna make it through the night so who cares that i'm laying here we've all been there so whatever's in me is worse than this yeah it's way worse man can't hurt me i'm already fucking already messed up so uh yeah he says that his wife is outraged and he said that he and tina left the home after being threatened by sharon and then later they returned and hid in the basement together yeah i think we're alone now that's what's going on here

i just pictured that running through the fucking side. This is a ridiculous story. We ran away. You're not a kid that's like in a relationship. This isn't Shakespeare. You're her stepfather. Yeah. We hid in the basement. Darling, we're going to have to hide down here.

The grownups just don't understand what we have. You fucking idiot. So, yeah, he said that. He said that they hid in the uh basement you're married to a woman who has murdered before james yeah are you fucking around behind her he's got the absolute balls yeah that's yeah you married a woman who's like i'm recently off parole for what a second degree murder yeah you aren't gonna fuck with her you're gonna you say murder i don't give a fuck what degree it is p's and q's my friend p's and q's at that point

you're not fucking her daughter holy the balls you're not gonna you're not gonna have a spa fuck in your bathroom with her daughter if that's the case. That's not happening. No, that's a different thing. So, yeah, he said that he left the home. They hid in the basement. Then he said the three of them argued about the relationship after that. We all argued about it. So this is to explain me and Tina left out the front door.

That's when John Jr. saw us leave. He and Tina left out the front door. That's when John Jr. saw us leave. But what John Jr. didn't see was us come back through the basement up into the house and argue about this shit with Sharon. Now, after this argument, it was Sharon who left with Tina. So John's like, I was out at that point. I was home. I didn't have nothing to do with nothing.

Left with Tina saying she was either going to take her to her grandmother's house or all the way to Davenport home. Either one. But one way or another, she's not staying here tonight. Not staying in my house, fucking my husband on my disgusting bathroom floor with my pubes on it. No, it's not happening. So, yeah, she said the next day he said, I mean, I was like, wow, this is fucked up, man. You know, he's like, I just went and laid down and, you know, just had a nice night's sleep. Long day, you know. It's fucking my stepdaughter. My wife finding out it's a lot. He said so.

He. Yeah. Jesus Christ, man. This is the book to say he had to say this out fucking loud. So putting his hand on a Bible. Yeah. So he sat there and they said, he said that, um, the next morning she said, well, I killed Tina.

So that ain't fucking her anymore. That's, that's over with. Hope you enjoyed it. Then he said, she said, even after that, even after admitting murder, she said, I should call the police and have you arrested for raping her. That's what I should do. I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to make that happen. call the police and have you arrested for raping her. That's what I should do. Yeah, I'm going to make that happen. I'm going to get you arrested for rape.

Well, you just killed her. So what's worse here? What are we talking about? What the fuck are we doing? You need her testimony to prove that. Where is she? Yeah. He said, well, that was all it was.

And he said that he said they began the affair about a year ago. He's been fucking a stepdaughter for about a year while they were living on a farm in Clarence. And he said that he planned to leave his wife and take his three children to Sioux City because he could no longer live with his wife's violent temper. Yeah. Couldn't take it anymore. They said he said, quote, I love Tina. I was guilty about it at first. But then he wasn't.

Yeah, he wasn't at all. And they said, well, when you were being interrogated, why didn't you tell this story? And he said, I tried to, but the cops wouldn't let me. No. He said, every time I tried to say it, they would just tell him, quit trying to drag your poor wife into this. Her daughter's dead. How dare you? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you dead. How dare you? Yeah.

Well, you know what? If you really know that someone else murdered, you don't take that. You go, I'm going to yell over you. She told me this and did that. I don't, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're going to fucking tell your story. Yeah. I know who killed her and it wasn't me.

I'm telling, you are not going to keep that story out of my mouth. You could be on my chest covering my mouth. You're still going to hear it. I'd be fucking yelling wouldn't you yeah i mean i might i might be saying i want my lawyer and i'll tell him yeah either one yeah but you're definitely not saying i'm not saying all right i'll sit here while y'all go ahead and narrate the night for me. So his whole story in detail is he decided to take a bath. So he was bathing. He was rub-a-dub just sitting in the tub over there. Obviously, who could resist him in the tub?

And think about it. While he drains and refills. Oh, sexy. He's just sex and water right there. Just a liquid sex. Yeah, we can't tell where the water stops and his tits start. Okay, let's say he hasn't taken a bath in two days. What does it cost for you to take a ladle full of that water and drink it?

What do I have to give you? Ladle full of 300-pound unemployed trucker do i have to give you ladle full of just 300 pound unemployed trucker water i'll do it with a pickle bag no no no no it's a ladle and then you have to sit there with it for like 60 seconds before you can do anything which you have to throw back up yeah yeah then you can puke it up you can drink whatever you want but 60 seconds of knowing that that's in your stomach and wondering what microbes and shit are. Is that 100 grand or is it more? It's a tough one.

His asshole and balls are in that. It's got to be a lot more. Yeah, and there's not a lot of water. It's highly concentrated. That's my other point. So you're getting some funk. It's not like- It's a gray tint.

That's not a good water. It's barely clear. No, it's brackish. It's brackish, Jimmy. It's not a good water there's it's barely clear oh there's it's brackish it's brackish jimmy it's not you don't that's almost tea it's yeah it looks like tea maybe you can pretend it's tea yeah no honey no sugar though or anything like that can't do it no milk no dairy straight from the ladle you have to scoop it with a soup ladle it's it's mid six figures i'm sure it's a lot yeah to be that sick that would psychologically damage you too i feel like wouldn't it it's certainly not gonna go easy i have taken a sip of tobacco spit and lost my

mind for like two weeks everything that i drank after that i was like oh my god what is this oh my god i'm gonna throw up oh god that's the worst feeling in the world when you go oh no i know what this is in my mouth have you ever done this is even worse have you ever done where you drink something expecting something else what you're drinking is perfectly fine. And you still spit it out. I took a sip of what I thought was a Sprite one time and it was Pepsi. And I took one sip and went, it's spoiled! Who put cigarettes out in this? And then I was like,

oh wait, no, this is Pepsi. It's actually fine. But I had to clean Pepsi up off of everything because I thought I had a Sprite because I had drank a Sprite earlier in the day. Not good. It feels like, yeah. Similar. It tastes like it's spoiled.

Yeah. Man. So, oh, God. Tobacco juice. That is so bad, dude. It feels terrible. Horrible. Oh, God.

Thankfully, it was my own. Yeah. Somebody else's. Somebody else's. I'd spit, vomit vomit and then probably fight who did that i'm gonna throw up on you you asshole who did it come over here so i can puke in your hair not a good feeling thankfully i didn't swallow it i just got it in my mouth and then

realized what it was and then there was a an issue i guess so and then life wasn't the same for a minute oh god can't trust anything even the air you breathe i'm like oh my god was that tobacco what is that oh god oh god it all tastes like it's still so 15 minutes in the bathtub he's in there. So, really getting, really soaking. Yeah. Man. He said then his bath was interrupted by young Tina. You can hear.

He says she was carrying a green blanket in her arms to lay down. And she said that she, quote, wanted to make love right now on the floor. Right on the bathroom floor. And he said, well, you know, I wanted to, but didn't want to in the old house. But she was just too irresistible. And he said that he was going to tell her, no, I can't right now. But before, but he couldn't resist it. So they made love on the

bathroom floor there made love on the bathroom floor he said they were getting themselves together and he said before tina was just about to leave the bathroom when he said he heard sharon coming up the stairs just as tina was just as tina was walking out of the bathroom with a Just as Tina was walking out of the bathroom. Tits still out. Tits, a jizz-covered blanket in her hand. And her naked, dripping wet fat husband behind her stepdaughter. He said Sharon yelled at her daughter and then slapped Tina across the face as well.

You bitch, how dare you? Slapped her. And then came in and slapped uh slapped uh john john as well he slapped you as he sat in the bathtub washing the fucking you know washing the juices off yeah so came in and slapped him how dare you okay so he said by the time he got dressed and went downstairs tina was already gone tina had left he said i found sharon in the living room with her coat on, dressing Tina's two young sons to take them over to grandma's house. So, yeah, so that's what he said. Tina was already gone. She said that she turned to John or John says that Sharon turned to him and said she was sick and tired of Tina trying to pull the wool over her eyes.

Not going to take it anymore. So he said that he drove his wife and his two step-grandsons to Grandma Harper's house there. Now, that's the only thing their testimony lines up on, Sharon and John, is that together they dropped the sons off at Grandma's house. That's it. Everything else is different. That definitely happened. So he then says that they went on an unsuccessful search for Tina at a couple of bars in town. They were searching, quote unquote.

Yeah. We also had some drinks probably. But, you know, after returning, he said he returned Sharon to her mother's house. And then he said he went home. He said, I just went home. And when I went home, lo and behold, what do I find? I hear a little noise in the corner. I'm like, what is that, a chipmunk in here or something?

Nope. Tina's hiding in my garage. Of course. She circled back and he said, all around this town looking for you. You've been here the whole time. Where have you been, little guy? She circled back and he said, quote, Tina was shaking pretty bad and didn't know what to do. He just described finding a lost puppy in his garage. One time there was like literally like a chipmunk or something in his garage and that's what it was. And he just replaced it with Tina.

Put it in there. He said he opened the door to the basement of the house and that's where Tina came and hid. And yeah, he said between that time, between that time and Sharon Roth's return, which wasn't until one thirty in the morning, Sharon didn't come home. He said he went back and forth to his mother's house, mother-in-law's house about four times to check on his wife, which is something that also happened. They both corroborate. So the medical examiners, they estimate Tina was killed sometime between 8.30 and midnight.

They said it could have happened a few hours later, though. You never know because of the snow and who knows. When you get freezing temperatures and snow and water involved, all bets are off. All bets are off, yeah. Yeah, the rigor doesn't work the same. Levitity doesn't work the same. Nothing works the same with temperature. So they said that he said he left his wife in the downstairs living room of their home,

sitting on a sofa and being mad, waiting for Tina to come back. And he said, that's the last I know. I went downstairs. I went to a downstairs bedroom and laid down. I just went and laid down. He said, minutes later, though, I heard my wife go up to their son's bedroom upstairs there and return later to lay down on the sofa. He said then he went to the basement to try to talk to Tina to convince her that we had to talk to mom about this. Listen, mom's mad. You know, this isn't going to blow over. You got to go talk to Tina to convince her that we had to talk to mom about this. Listen, mom's mad.

You know, this isn't going to blow over. You got to go talk to her. We got to work this out like adults. Right. You know. Before long, he said, Sharon was standing at the top of the stairs, caught them, busted them in the basement. She opened the basement door and there they were at the bottom of the stairs talking.

They're doing it again, conspiring against me. So he was like, oh, no. He said that she shouted out from the top of the stairs, quote, I ought to kill the both of you. She shouts out. Says a murderer. Says I ought to kill the both of you. Yes, as a woman with a murder conviction. He said then a short fight ensued between tina and her mother that he

he shivel chivalrously broke up of course ladies ladies ladies come on decorum jesus christ i think this is the junior women's league what are we doing here also this is how a lot of pornos start let's talk yeah also is anybody else horny because i'm horny i don't know what it is i don't know if it's just me or i i feel a horniness swelling in the room right jesus fucking christ man so he says that he broke it up then the three of them went to the kitchen upstairs to talk yeah all right but it ended with with Sharon furiously grabbing her daughter to take her home. Let's go. We're getting out of here now, you little hussy.

Yeah. Let's go, fucking harlot. We're going now. Taking her home. He said that he didn't know whether he was taking, that Sharon was taking Tina to grandma's house down the street or to her home in Davenport or what the fuck. But he said his wife didn't return home till 4 a.m. Wow.

And so at that point, you know, he retired for the night, just called it a night. So he said he woke up three hours later at 7 a.m. And he found Sharon crying. It's like, well, what happened? Why are you crying? And he said, I quote, happened? Why are you crying? And he said, quote, I asked, where's Tina? And he said then, quote, she said, I killed her.

Uh-oh. Oh, no. I asked her why. And she said, quote, I'm sick and tired of you two. Couldn't take it anymore. So I killed my daughter. Was it the both of us or me also? Yeah. Should I be worried or was it just did you let out enough of your anger on one of the two of us yeah i just want

to clarify because you've been convicted of murder and you just to another one and i'm worried about my safety and your wording was real real particular look at us we're in court right now look at how suspicious it is right she's mad suspicious right see this is how it works this guy is double talking bullshit he said that then he that's when she threatened to call the cops and say he raped tina if he if he would reveal that she killed tina she told him quote you'll be six feet under with her that's what sharon threatened him oh so they said how'd you feel about that and he said quote i was scared i was scared man scared me and my rubber ducky half to death i'll tell you what we were real scared he said that in light of her past violence

i felt threatened obviously yeah so then they called up his mother to the stand to talk about the instances of violence firing the shotgun ramming the fucking deal um so sharon roth testifies to noticing that tina wasn't really playing monopoly with john jr um because she was thought that that's that's what they were doing at first but then she saw that John Jr. was just sitting there. She said that was after her husband told her that he was going to take a bath in an upstairs bathroom. Now, what Roth Sr. said here, what he said in his testimony, is that John Jr. should have seen his mother going upstairs to the bathroom. But John Jr. said he didn't see that. So that's the difference because he said senior said sharon came up the stairs caught us argued with tina slapped her all that

shit which now john jr's like she never got up i never saw her go up the stairs i'm right by the stairs so that's a problem um raw john also said that his 13 year old son, John Jr. Was mistaken when he saw his father load and take the 22 caliber rifle from his room that night. I was that, that's see, that's the crazy part right there. See kids taken. He's mistaken is what it was. I borrowed a camping light. I borrowed a lantern and he was like, Oh, you know, he mistook me putting kerosene in it for loading shells into my fucking rifle you know how it is very similar very yeah that's a very

obvious thing that you're doing when what did he mistake it's just a mistake i mean it's just a mistake what he was doing was folding his homework into origami for the teacher make it like a little like a little penguin yeah squeeze it back and forth and it flaps its wings real nice to do what he thought he was doing was taking a rifle but it was just origami it was just origami it was just he thought it'd be fun just to show sharon it was one of the mash games to find out where he's gonna live mansion or shack i don't know what the results were but i just heard woohoo i'm in a mansion and then that's the last I heard of it. So I think that they played it is what I'm going to get.

So he says that he also says that disputes John Jr.'s testimony saying that because he said that he saw his father attempting to hide the gun in a heating vent and the vent was too small. And Roth said, why would I try to hide it in there? That's much too small. Like, well well we didn't say you were smart you're not on trial for having a high fucking intelligence you're being a you're a moron that's the point we said that it was much too small and that's why you couldn't do it yeah that's obviously stupid fuck you dumb shit roth so then john senior here concedes that he did write threatening messages on his own family car concerning Tina's visit the summer before to scare his wife into moving back to Sioux City. That's what he wanted. He wanted his wife to leave so he could be without her.

That was the whole point. So, yeah, they had already matched it through handwriting analysis. So he couldn't say he didn't write it. He just had to come up with a reason why he wrote it for court because they were going to ask him about that. A financial assistance worker with the Iowa Department of Human Services office at Tipton said that Roth inquired earlier in the month. This is John Sr. about having his welfare records transferred to the Sioux City area. He said he planned to leave his wife, but he wanted to take his children. So he wanted to keep the welfare.

That was the whole point. The agent agreed John Jr. was inconsistent. This is one of the detectives also on the stand. Agreed John Jr. was inconsistent in his recollection of the number of rifle shells he believed his father took when he saw him load the murder weapon. But he said that that doesn't mean anything he's a 13 year old kid and his dad it's pretty weird that his dad's

loading this rifle in the room he might have miscounted shells you know so um anyway he they also they said well why did you try to escape from jail if you're so innocent and he said that it was all a big misunderstanding that's all he said the jailers were mistaken in their recollection. I never asked for their gun. That's not at all. That never happened. They just made that up. You know, it was a mistake.

I just wanted more doilies. I said, I'm fucking, I'm whacking like crazy over here. I'm super turned on. Then they said, well, why did you try to escape? And what were you escaping for? And he said i wanted to save my children from my wife that's why i thought she started with tina she's gonna kill them all okay that's that's why he escaped from jail that's what he said grabbed a 64 year old

lady by the throat and dragged her into the fucking snow to save him so wow there's some medical stuff here to talk about quickly uh the when it was found they said that uh they think it happened between 8 30 and midnight the state but the defense is trying to say that it happened more between 2 a.m and 9 a.m area because that's when sharon would have been gone and john jr would have been asleep and not couldn't account for her and that fits the narrative right yeah that's the only way it works. The Iowa State Medical Examiner in a cross-examination, he said that she probably died

most likely between 10.30 and midnight, but he said that it is a remote possibility that she died as late as 2 or 3 a.m. You don't know. So, the closing here, the prosecutor said that, I don't know why he killed his stepdaughter. I don't know what the motive is, other than she may have threatened to tell the mom about it or who the hell knows.

He said that, yeah, he doesn't know what to do about it, but he did say he definitely did it. He said only Roth and Tina know the real motive for sure. He then suggested that Roth that his idea was that Roth raped her in the garage, then killed her to cover it up, which is possible. But the medical examination didn't reveal that. But so like an assault, it just shows. Right. Yeah. It's still possible, though, that that would show up that way.

So that's possible, but not as likely as they were having an affair, especially with the whispering and all that sort of thing. But we don't know for sure. We just don't know. We absolutely don't. So they said that that could be the reason why, which is a little – he's not being charged with rape, so it's a stretch to be like, he probably raped her, too, to the jury. You know what I mean? I mean, I get why you're doing it, but that's a lot. It's inflammatory. It's a little to be like he might probably raped her, too, to the jury. You know what I mean? I mean, I get why you're doing it, but it's that's a lot. It's a little inflammatory.

Yeah. Which I mean, so is this killing. So I guess it's fine. He did it. So fuck that, I guess. So they said that they argue about the time. They go back and forth like with in the closing arguments about time and about all this type of shit. about time and about all this type of shit. The defense says that an autopsy report made no references to Mark's bruises or other signs of physical injury to Tina.

And they tried to discredit John Jr.'s testimony, saying that he was coached by his mother to frame his father. That's a stretch. He's going to go up there and be performative in court as a teenager. Yeah. Imagine going into court as a teenager like that, talking about a murder trial where your dad's accusing your mom of murder and the state's accusing your dad of murder. Would you be able to go up there and fucking bebop and shuck all around? Imagine your mom frames your dad for murder and then you're the one at 13 that's going to convince everybody.

You're going to keep all your timelines straight. You're going to keep all that going. You're never going to think about 13. You're never going to think about video games or jerking off ever. That's never going to come up. Okay, sure. Or panic and just be like, she told me to say it. She told me, I swear.

So then the defense attorney says, why in the world would he bring the murder weapon back home? Obviously, because he's a fucking idiot. That's why. He just committed a murder that everyone saw him walk out with the victim. So clearly he's not that fucking bright. That's the worst defense. Why would someone do something that stupid?

I don't fucking know. Why'd you do it, dummy? I don't care why he's a 35 year old banging his stepdaughter what the fuck are we talking about he's a fucking hillbilly who bangs his stepdaughter and you know what are we talking about exactly so then the defense attorney cites inconsistencies in john jr's statements to investigators about the number of rifle shells initially he told them 11 shells were gone, but then he wavered on his claim, saying that maybe it was more like seven.

Well, that overrides all the evidence that I can think of right there. I mean, he miscounted shells. Yeah, but seven is the magic number, so that's a pretty good, accurate guess there. That's what I mean, not a bad guess. So the defense attorney tells the jury, quote, he, meaning John Jr., was told by his mother seven were missing. Seven sounds a lot like 11. That's the only logical explanation for the miscount. His mother told him what to say and he misheard her.

That's what the defense says, obviously. There's seven holes in a girl. Open and shut, everybody. That's what it was. He heard 11, said's seven holes in a girl. So, I mean, open and shut, everybody. That's what it was. He heard 11 said seven. She coached him. If we needed more proof, I think we just got it right. OK, this is dismissed.

Right. Your honor. We can just all pack up now. Done and done. Also, she's in heaven. That also rhymes. So, you know, it's clearly it works it works you know but it all it all comes together everybody the prosecutor insisted that the john jr had no reason to lie about any of this shit

he instead quote was the prosecutor this is not a perfect case there's no one thing he said that he encouraged the jury to look at the tally of evidence look at it as a whole it's got to be a whole you know it's a it's the puzzle a lot of prosecutors will say you got a puzzle up on your shelf it's an old puzzle once that rainy day you take it down you start putting it together there's 10 12 pieces missing from this puzzle doesn't mean you can't see what the puzzle is right you know exactly what it is that's that's what prosecutors say all the time you gotta look at it like the whole puzzle and if there's enough pieces to make the picture then you're guilty which is a really anecdotal

way to fucking say you should put someone in jail for the rest of their lives but it makes sense though on the other hand too it does but not every goddamn case no that's that's the meaning but that's the that's what they say when there's missing evidence. You can still see the picture, right? Oh, boy. Oh, boy. So anyway, the defense said, you may have a gut feeling that Roth did it, but that's not enough, he tells the jury. He says that you must find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and the prosecution just did not do that. I'm sorry.

That's that. So the jury jury they have a hard time with this one they deliberate for 17 hours oh boy which is multiple days yeah it's several days here uh three days 17 hours before finally coming in with a verdict at about three o'clock in the afternoon so this this is precarious 17 hours here um they find him you sir well no not yet but they find him guilty yeah of first degree murder so first degree first degree um now the sentencing it's a mandatory deal so that's pretty easy that's you sir may fuck off life in prison for mr. Roth here. So he wants a new trial, okay? Yes, he does.

In 86. He wants a new trial because the trial, the judge barred his introduction of his wife's previous murder. So that's his new thing. He got fucked over. So in 1986, the Iowa Court of Appeals grants him a new trial based on this.

Is that right? Absolutely. But in April of 87, the Iowa Supreme Court reverses the Court of Appeals decision and tells him, no, no, you're good. Keep on fucking off here, mister. So they said the court initially agreed that he didn't get a fair trial because he was not allowed to talk about that. But now they're saying no. The conviction said the district judge here said the conviction would unfairly prejudice the jury against her. That's how it was. denies his application for post-conviction relief, which was based on the grounds that his attorney provided him ineffective assistance

at his 85 trial. That attorney said some of the ballsiest fucking bald-faced lies and crazy assertions I've ever fucking heard. If there was ever an effective one, he got it. He worked for his money. That shouldn't have took 17 hours that's because the lawyer made a case that made people have to talk about some shit timelines and yeah he was effective as you can be when you have obvious evidence that your client murdered this

person so it's kind of difficult so yeah that's what he wants he contends his first trial attorney had a conflict of interest because he represented one of the state witnesses in an unrelated civil matter at one point okay so he didn't care if so now that's a now he would have tried to protect that witness at the cost of putting this person in jail for murder that's he's a so if that's true he should be immediately disbarred yeah he should never practice law ever again because what are the chances uh in a town that small that everybody in every case ever is going to be completely unrelated absolutely totally so he also according

to roth failed to ask for appointment of co-counsel because an initial assisting attorney was discharged for insufficient showing of need. So the state wouldn't pay for it because he's indigent. So he said they should have asked for a co-counsel appointment. That's what he should have done. And yeah, this appeal here, they tell him, go fuck yourself. That's 91. Then in 1994, he has a self-written document contending his lawyer gave him ineffective assistance of counsel. Self-written.

How do you think this guy writes legal documents? Well, stepdaughter fucker, you think he's good at writing legal documents? Bathroom floor fucker, regardless of who the participant is. Yeah, bathroom floor, man. Come on. Unless you have like nine kids and you're hiding from them to fuck quick. That's the only way that's acceptable. This is the only place they won't come in.

And the bathroom's brand new. Nothing's ever been done in there. Yeah. Well, you have a fucking shower why not there what are you doing in the on the floor so i guess she couldn't fit in the tub with him probably the way he is so i doubt it so um this here uh he's going on and uh they talk about in 86 they granted him a new trial and then in 87 they said just kidding and then in 91 they deny him and all this shit um 94 they end up denying him again obviously you are a fucking get out of here jerk off

what the hell are you doing so they said they didn't uh that at the time of the trial did roth he didn't offer any record to demonstrate a reasonable link between the knowledge required to operate a.22 caliber rifle. This gets real ticky tacky because it gets murky because the original court says, well, he should have been able to introduce the evidence that his wife shot a gun, especially a.22. But then the state says, well, she was accused of shooting someone with a 22 caliber handgun, which is much different than a 22 caliber rifle. Who knows that there's no evidence that she knows how to load a 22 caliber rifle like a 22 caliber handgun. And that's that's what they're arguing about. The differences in loading the particular weapons. That's literally what it is.

It's kind of silly they said uh also sharon's prior conviction did not involve dishonesty or false statement far more than no it was murder which is worse than dishonesty it didn't involve dishonesty but she killed a guy now i'm totally on this side but not don't say it like that isn Isn't most murder dishonest? I mean, isn't that? She's a murderer, not a liar, Your Honor. She killed a guy, then went on the run. That's pretty dishonest. She stole his truck.

Stealing is dishonest, is it not? Like, there's so much dishonesty in that. Wow. So they said, blah, blah, blah. She's, fuck dishonesty or false statement. Far more than 10 years have elapsed since her incarceration. And Roth made no showing the probative. Roth made no showing that the probative value of the conviction substantially outweighed its prejudicial effect.

OK, so they said, nonetheless, we again find no abuse on the part of the trial court in excluding this evidence and while the 65 conviction arguably contradicts sharon's statement she had never fired a firearm that contradiction does not make it admissible its admissibility turns on its relevance to and status as independent proof of sharon's knowledge of firearms you sir keep on keeping on fucking your fat ass off in jail. Currently, he is at the Des Moines, Iowa Department of Corrections facility here. He is inmate number 0801079, so he's still there. Who knows? Maybe you can prisoner dating game this guy. He sounds fun. Sounds like a good guy.

He's still alive. Dude, he's still alive. What is's still alive and he's got you know what is he 70 something years old yeah he's in his 70s now and he's a that's a big heavy guy to be in the 70s and in prison in 84 yeah yeah he's in his 70s that's crazy man so you're 80 it's almost 80 and he's still going at this point uh yeah he was born born in 1949. Tell us just so he's known. He's 72. 72, yeah. 73 now.

Well, January. So 73. 73 years old, yeah. You can call 515-725-5701 to get the latest updates on the visiting application requirements. That was just on the website. I thought it was funny. So you can visit old John Roth. And I don't know. Tell him stories of the hot stepdaughters and things like that and he'll probably get all turned on

and jerk off into a doily that said everybody that is crazy ass iowa clarence iowa and uh it's quite a weird story i don't even know what to say about this. It sounds like what would happen if you told me, tell me a story about Clarence, Iowa. This is probably the one I would make up. Yeah. If you said small town murder, what's that about? Like people killing is like fucking their stepdaughters and killing them. Like that's what you would think, right? Yeah.

It was a little more stereotypical than normal for us, but that's what it was. That's right on the nose there, everybody. So anyway, that said, that is Clarence, Iowa, and one fucking wild family. There's so many kids running around. Everyone's having kids way early. And mom figured it out later in life how to just be on the right side of the law. She had no part of this and yeah figured out how to be a decent person after after murdering i guess so part of a murder of a

guy now the important part we have to talk about is how did we this actually go down because he left without a gun and with tina then went back and got tina right and whatever so they said that um tina went and ended up going to her grandmother's house so it seems like he went dropped her off at her grandmother's house came back picture came back got the gun yeah but he had all those other items did he leave her out on the side of the road handcuffed with wires oh you know what i mean boy did he do that did he leave her out there to a tray or something yeah there's rope. And then be like, oh, fuck, I forgot my gun.

I better go back and get it. And then went back and got it. And then was like, oh, hi, I'm back to get you. And then shot her. Is that what happened? That's got to be it. Because he didn't. Why else did he have those things?

Who knows? Where he put her before he came back with all the murder kit. That's what I'm saying. Why would you keep that stuff if that's not what happened? And there wasn't. It's very fucked up. But there wasn't like – she had no like skull bruises, so he didn't like knock her out with a baseball bat and leave her there. So he could have tied her up, I guess. But there was people – there was witnesses that like saw him driving in that area.

So this wasn't like one of these logging roads we talk about, like the Hardeg hardegger case the small town murder express case where you know it was out in the middle of nowhere no one would ever found it there's people driving all over the fucking place over here so someone would have seen a 21 year old girl screaming while tied to a tree i would hope i don't know but uh either way that's some crazy shit if you enjoy that tell everyone you know about it and don't stop there. Get on whatever app you're listening on, whatever platform. Give us five stars. It is monstrously helpful. So thank you for doing that if you are doing that.

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Oh, my God. Crime and sports bonus. What else are you going to get, Jimmy? That small town murder bonus. That's goddamn right. You're going to get all that. And the whole back catalog. That's all of them.

Wait, no, Jimmy, there's over 100 episodes on that back catalog. They can't get all that. They get it all. Oh, my God. It's a value, everybody. If you order it right now, you're also going to get the Pocket Fisherman. You won't get a Pocket Fisherman, but you will get all these bonus episodes. You will get a shout-out.

I will. Fuck your name up. I guarantee it. Jimmy will read it while holding a pocket fisherman. That's how we're going to do it. Very nice nonstick pan. He's going to work it out. So definitely do that.

I picked it up over at Fish and Gear, James. Oh, Fish and Gear. They have good shit over there. What section? Yikes. So this week's episode is for crime and sports, which everyone will be interested in this because it's pretty gross. episodes for crime and sports which everyone will be interested in this because it's pretty gross um it's it's almost like if uh larry nassar was a female yikes like a female wrestling trainer basically yeah and a pimp for that matter because he was absolutely disgusting and molesting people

but he wasn't sending them like out of state to fuck people for money that they don't even get that moola gets because that's the accusations against moolah that she was uh just absolutely horrible to these women and plus she would take their money for years and years and years just for wrestling like she was uh she was tough a lot of people say it never happened a lot of people said it did we'll talk about it and uh yeah it's because it needs to be talked about and then very good dark side of the ring to kind of pre-game for that too they have on her. And then for Small Town Murder's bonus, we're going to get to something really crazy.

We're going to talk about some very specific shit about Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah. How he got caught, how he didn't get caught, what the fuck was he thinking, what the fuck was he doing in certain things. Some very weird shit he said in his confession that was just like, did he say those words very weird stuff why just say that jeff it's strange shit you can get it all and so much more and a shout out and the back catalog all of it god damn it patreon.com slash crime and sports right now that said oh also paypal if you just want to shout out PayPal, use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. God damn it, Jimmy. I need the names of the most wonderful God damn people on earth who have been so wonderfully generous to us and fucking phenomenal to us.

Jimmy, please hit me with those names. This week's executive producers are Lisa Coltrane. Happy birthday, by the way. Happy birthday. And she asks that people go to bethematch.com and see if they can be bone marrow donors. Yeah, that's a good idea. See what you can do to save some people's lives. Do it.

That's a nice idea. That really is. Other executive producers are Jennifer Justice Thompson. Happy birthday. Ben Blake is my personal hero. Heather Norton, Jordan Bennett, Amora Mayo-Perez. She's looking for impressions, James, so you have to sing That's Amore, I'm told. I don't know.

Do you know anything about it? That's Amore. There it is. Of course I am. I'm a fucking guinea. All right. D. Martin, for Christ's sake. Karen Hensel, Jordan Bennett.

Did I say? I did. Oh, there's also Jordan with no last name. And Adina Hill and Carlos Flores. Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. It cannot be duplicated. Other producers are also Jess Quinney Moon. Jess Quinney Moon.

That's it. Happy birthday, Jess. Tiffany Gonzalez got her baby out of her. Hey. Yank it out. Good job. In a hospital and everything. Congrats, yank it out. Good job. In a hospital and everything. Congrats, Tim.

Wow, nice work. Kieran White in the UK. Liz Vasquez. Peyton Meadows. Laura Boyka. Boyka Warizniak, I think. James Marner. Judge Chamberlain Holler.

Who is that? That's Fred Gwynn and my cousin Vinny. That's right. That's Chamberlain Holler. Right. Happy Hour in Washington, PA. Thomas Smith. Frank the South African Bird Washer.

David Wienerstein. Catherine Collado. Robbie Buckmeyer. What? Did you say ute? What is a ute? What is a ute? Sorry.

I apologize. Robbie Buckmeyer's girlfriend, Elia, or Elia? I think Elia. Janice Hill. Carly Poe. Thank you, Carly. That was sweet. Samantha Quigley, happy birthday. Andrew Welmers, happy birthday.

Happy birthday. Heather Beauchamp's son, Roger Thomas. I didn't know his name last time. I called him Thomas. I don't know. Happy birthday, Roger. Happy birthday, Roger. Roger Thomas.

Thanks, Heather. Valerie Landowski, Azalea Seldon, Gabby Smith, Jennifer Wengen, Jody Cook, Casey Mitchell, Allison with no last name, Madison Hadababy Eats-A-Boy. Jesus. Lucas with no last name, Paula Bryan, Chris Pierce, Maureen Ingold, Sarah Taylor, Jason Sarmiento, Daniel Lee, Rachel Byford, Molly Campbell, Daniel Hanson, Nicholas Medina, Eduardo Sanchez, Margaret Dobner, oh, Chenise Blackshear.

I want to name my daughter Penis and tell everybody it's pronounced Penise. Penise. Penise. Penise Westman. There she is. That's my daughter Penise. panice panice westman there she is that's that's my daughter panice uh emily nash beth scott brian burdick uh randall and holla holotta my daughter vagina here she is sorry jade uh jade thompson ian elliott melody dorman aaron and emily tom with no last name

aileen heaton vicky with no last name tyranny honey Emily, Tom with no last name, Aileen Heaton, Vicky with no last name, Tierney Honeyborn, Trav with no last name, Quinn B., Christina Wise, yes, Brett Shields, Sarah Kirk, Finch Clybourne, J41E Henriquez, that may be an address, John Country Fried Groundhog Williams, no last name. Trey with no last name. Anthony Walters. Jack Parrott. Tara Farner. Oh, boy.

Danny De La Cruz. Jeep Ford. Caitlin with no last name. Nick Scott. 123 Coletta. That might be an address also. Jeez. I can't tell.

Amber Nicole. Mark Calabrese. Groundhogs for Breakfast. Sarah Digger or Digger Menci. I dig it, too. Ari, Ari Nelson, R. Thorntonson, Bethany Ramsey, Carrie Ochoa, Bailey Rudolph, Michael Hardziel, Andrew Nicolene, Barrett Milam, Ashley Wyckoff, David Reynolds, Kyle Loney, Noah Thomas, Jonathan Parker, Dedrick Logan, Jennifer Olson, Ava Ai, Kristen Shockley, Kirsten Shockley, Jordan Elfer, Tanner Dick, Dyke, I don't know, I'm sorry, Tanner, that's a tough last name.

Either way, it's no fun. No, either way, it's not a't know. I'm sorry, Tanner. That's a tough last name. Either way, it's no fun. No, either way, it's not a walk in the park for you, Tanner. That's the problem. Liz with no last name. Christy Zrust. Lauren Ashmore. Brandon Crump. Cynthia Caruso.

Nicole Weir. Lizzie Karignan. David with no last name. Tara Love. Christy Hall. Christy Hall. Beth Hines. Ben Cousins. Probably not. Dan with no last name, Tara Love, Christy Hall, Beth Hines, Ben Cousins, probably not, Dan with no last name, Peter Green, Rob Dean, Logan Jackson, Jennifer Carter, Destiny Benbo, Arden Thorne, Austin Stewart. Gabriella Treanor. Kylie Noonan. Tyler Shad.

Rachel Reading. Kelly Newlin. Jian Su. Ellie Godecki. Tara with no last name. Abby Houston. Jacobs. Evelyn Hampton.

Darren Walt. David Beebe. Kali McGuire. Christy Aloysius. Alo Montblow, gay, black, Jewish, Nazi for Christ in Canada. That feels awful to say out loud. Sears Spears, Tremaine with no last name, Andrea LaFond, Blair Osgood, Jamal Evans, Ashley Stevens, Sarah with no last name, Brent Fox, I am legend Dinah Donnie, Donnie Thomason, Shannon EZ with no last name, Isaac Evita Torres, Patrick Lull, I think, Kayla Pretty, Michelle Miller, nope, Michelle Hill, that's what that is,

Jean, Jean, Jean, Jean Reichsteiner, Steiner, Reichsteiner. That feels terrible to say out loud. Venter D. John, Italian, John. Yeah. Ella, Ella, Deere, Yanni, Nii. Wow. Jay Cable, Aaron McCollum, Callie Davis, Allie Fowler, Bethany Cassidy, Jared with no last

name, Katie Kovacs, Cade maybe uh michelle tran gavin fossman john martin cheyenne edwards elizabeth hayden arturo rodriguez jack peak alice vasvosic george vaughn the third brooklyn spears thomas oberhart uh angela barron jeremy edwards nell mosca or what marshoka angela Queen Anne and her monkey, and her cat monkey. I don't know if it's a cat named monkey or if she's got a cat monkey. Cat monkey. Megan Richards, Kate M., Jenny Ellis, Veronica McCann, Shel Murdoch, Amber Richards, Celine A. Bray, Bob Rossman,

David Bezifiat, what? Bezifiat, Jessica Briggs, Anna Tveri, Ethan Woods, Russell Turner, Lance Pearson, Jessica O'Dowd, Sarah King, Alicia Medina, R. Mars, Brianna Forsyth, Jennifer Braun, Leslie Waddington, Samantha Cataldo, Stasha Swab, Jennifer Ellsworth, Tyler Boyd, Natty Piedra, Raven D, oh boy, K6A6R6I. That may be an address. Wow, again, I think it's an address. Like a hopscotch code or something. I don't know. We may have just given somebody a code somewhere to do something terrible. I think so. We just activated Reggie code somewhere to do something terrible. I think so.

We just activated Reggie Jackson. That's not good. Lindsey Sweet, Stephen Brandt, Talking Murder With My Mother, Tish Gopel, Kyle Francis, Katie Dorbin, Jordan with no last name, Erica Clark, Michael with no last name, Jason Robbins, Autumn Nicely, Lakeisha Maxer, Kylie Keenan, Josette Tabor. It might be Mr. Tabor's wife. Daughter? Tabor. Sweet. Shannon Copeland and all of our patrons.

You guys are fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Oh, thank you. So much. Boy. Holy shit. God, you people are nice to us, and we appreciate it, and we'll never stop appreciating it.

Thank you so, so much. And if you want to get a hold of us, pretty easy to do. You can look up Small Town Murder podcast host. You can find people on social media. You know how to do it and you can do it. So do it.

Find us. Keep coming back week after goddamn week because we're not going anywhere. We'll be here every fucking week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

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