Small Town Murder - #280 - The Soft Serial Killer - St. Augustine, Florida

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

This week, in St. Augustine, Florida, cold case detectives are shocked when they realize that a murderer, caught in another state, may just be responsible for many murders, in Florida. This killer ends us telling them the whole tale of his sordid career as a serial killer. Even he's not quite sure where this itch came from, but he scratched it by killing at least 7 women, that he thought no one would miss, in brutal, terrible & heartless ways. The problem is, there may be many, many more, where those came from, as he's suspected of having killed in several other states, as well!Along the way, we find out that no one actually wants to live anything like a pirate, that everyone is something to someone, and that not being able to satisfy a sexual partner should make you try harder, not start murdering people!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in St. Augustine, Florida, a man who is described as both the perfect southern gentleman and a complete psychopath shows his true colors while finally confessing to his career as a serial killer. Welcome to

Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today we are more than excited for another wild crazy edition of small town murder they keep getting crazier and crazier i gotta tell you that so thank you quickly uh whatever

app you're listening on whatever platform five stars would be wonderful give a review they do help drive us up the charts also head over to over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. All sorts of new merchandise up. The murder birds are here. Also, the coloring book is out. Oh, my goodness. All sorts of stuff. So get all of that right now. Also, get your tickets to live shows. Tons of live shows lined up. The next couple we have in May here was the 20th and 21st. I think we're in cincinnati and detroit those are sold out but keep people keep returning tickets here and there because it was rescheduled for two years so get in there i think detroit might have a couple that will return right now so get

in there try to get those and uh you can do that with all the cities throughout the year on that so thank you so much for doing that can't wait to see everybody wherever the hell we may find you there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of the crazy, insane bonus stuff here. Oh, boy. Oh, my goodness. $5 or above gets you our whole back catalog of more than 100 episodes of

Patreon. It also gets you access to everything we put out bonus wise. Crime and Sports, Small Town Murder. This week, what you're going to get, your everything this week is and sports small town murder this week what you're going to get your everything this week is going to be for crime and sports we're going to talk about an amazing thing that happened we love a scammer yeah this guy showed up at a nascar race no one knew who he was he had some faked you know qualifications of something yeah raced crashed like five times disappeared for 40 years no one

ever heard from him and then in the last month he resurfaced and said okay here's who i am and here's what happened it's amazing amazing check that out and then for small town murder we're going to touch on a subject that we touched on a few episodes ago we had the kid with that they blamed everything on grand theft auto 3 all of murders. We're going to talk about throughout history when pop culture has been blamed for murder, whether it's video games, music. There's been different times. It's been a lot. Yeah, it's been quite a few times, so we'll talk about that.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all that stuff. And a shout-out at the end of the show. Oh, you bet. Because, damn it, we do appreciate what you're doing, so thank you.'re gonna we're gonna do that and your name will be mispronounced horribly don't worry that'll happen you got that quickly the disclaimer it's a comedy show there it is we're comedians it's uh the the story's real don't get us wrong we wish it wasn't we i wish i had the talent to write these stories every week from my head and they didn't have to actually happen to people. But they are actually real.

Nothing's made up for comic embellishment or anything like that. It's just how silly it is to think that I should murder someone. Funny things happen because it's a ridiculous thought to have. And that's what we make fun of. We make fun of that. We make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere that sucks. Everybody is. that we make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere that sucks everybody is make fun of uh you know a bumbling police force that lets a guy go for 10 years and more people get

murdered stuff like that we keep it where it belongs what we don't do we go out of our way not to do we don't make fun of the victim or the victim's family why is that because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags that is the deal that's that's the deal. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a crazy story. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, never go together, you might not like the show. But you might actually give it a chance. Either way, no complaining afterwards. I don't want to hear that shit. So with that said, it's time to sit back.

Let's clear the lungs, Jimmy. What do you say? And shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy, shall we? Let's go on a trip. Great. Let's go. We are going down south today, down to St. Augustine, Florida.

Yikes. Oh, boy. Yeah, Florida time. They're never not crazy in Florida. Florida has so many murders to choose from that if we're doing it, you know it's insane because it's not like Wyoming, which is hard. You really got to dig for it. There's not a lot of murders, period. So you don't find a lot of crazy ones. In Florida, you can just scrape it right off the top like chum. Yeah, the lifestyle itself is bananas what why wouldn't murder be there's interstates there's people from everywhere there's there's also swamp people who it's like a really weird environment so and the campaign for traveling uh and tourism there is out of this world they paint the picture there like it's um like it's hawaii i mean especially when they have

brochures that are like kill three women and go home without being caught. It's going to attract the wrong element. I mean, they're like, bring the kids to Disneyland, come here to the beach, and then there's that one for your serial killers. Could be a pirate for a weekend. Well, that's in this story, actually. They're not in our story, but in the town. St. Augustine, Florida. Quickly, we'll go through it because our story is wacky and long and just involved.

There's multiple murders and multiple amounts of craziness. St. Augustine, Florida. Northeastern Florida. So right in the taint of Florida. Florida is two panhandles going up and connecting at a taint area. This is more in the taint area. It's about 50 minutes to Jacksonville. So up in there.

It's that close to there, huh? Yeah, it's over in that area. So more than four and a half hours down to Miami to go all the way down the coast. And about two and a half hours to Indialantic, which was our last Florida episode. Episode 245, I See Dead People, which was we do very very crazy one here so this is in saint john's county area code 904 and their motto is it's true to quote the nation's oldest city is that right yeah or as it's more popularly known we still haven't fixed shit so that's it's also that now the nation's oldest city it, a little history, it was founded in 1565 by Spanish explorers.

Oh, shit. Yeah, it's the oldest European inhabited city in the United States. Predates, you know, Plymouth Rock and all that stuff. It's essentially where they all landed, huh? Yeah, originally. Yeah, the original one there. It's the oldest inhabited European established settlement in what's now the contiguous United States. So founded September 8th, 1565 by Spanish Admiral Pedro Menendez de Alvarez. So him, who was also Florida's first governor.

Is that right? I guess if you find it you can govern it if you you know if you're gonna have all the guns in the ships you're gonna be governor after a while he named the settlement san augustine as his uh augustin actually without the uh his ships had all sorts of they had troop supplies from Spain. They really came loaded for bear here with all sorts of shit. Just in case. Yeah. This city was the capital of Spanish Florida for over 200 years. Holy shit.

Yeah. This was the main spot because it was the oldest city. It was designated as the capital of British East Florida when the colony was established in 1763. And then Great Britain gave Florida back to Spain in 1863. 20 years of Florida, they were like, you know what? There's a lot we want to keep, but not this. You can have that. We've noticed that when we're there, something in the air makes us fucking crazy.

Yeah, I mean, we're out of the rest of the country. We kind of had that war. And then on top of that, we only have the craziest part left. So we're not going to keep that. You can have that back. I don't know. There's swamp people. We found swamp people.

We don't want it anymore. Oldest place in the oldest city. Wow. Take that, New England. Yeah, that's what I mean. Spain ceded Florida to the United States in 1819. And then St. Augustine was designated the capital of the florida territory until it was like made a state officially and then it was moved to tallahassee so then they

realized there's better places you know like there's bigger cities what are we doing there's we can't there's no room for like a state works here we can't do this so this town reviews this place is chalk it's a big tourist town people love coming to this place tourist wise it's a kind of a pretty town here this place has over 85 star reviews on the site that i use which is 85 stars 85 star reviews eight zero so that's a lot of five normally it's you know it'll be like three five star reviews and you know some threes and fours this is mainly fives people love this place but we found some complainers obviously i mean what are we here for so here's one five stars

saint augustine is definitely a one-of-a-kind place with tons of monuments and gift shops well nobody can be gift shops yeah i mean who doesn't love tons of gift shops oh the same shit from two doors down magnets with the yeah no just in the shape of florida well yeah in the shape of florida but it's got like a you know like a ship's wheel on it like this and a star where saint augustine is that right there james all the all my favorite places that i like to visit mostly yeah snow globe just the little coal pieces in the sand yeah in the in the water it's a it's a shake. In the sand, yeah. In the water. It's a Florida snowman.

It's just melted with, yeah, they sell those. My favorite places are dominated with landmarks and gift shops. That's all I want, gift shops. As far as the eye can see. Give me kitschy shit I can stick to my refrigerator, please. Sell me trash, please. Please. You can find all sorts of tacky little tourist gifts in every store and dine in for some heavenly food.

They said that like it's positive. Yeah, I've never heard tacky as a positive fucking way to describe it. It's so tacky there. I love it. It's just tacky. I don't know what it is. My favorite shit is so tacky. Oh, it's tacky.

You can buy tacky things. It's my favorite. My personal favorite place to eat, i guess it was eat but mistaken here is burger buckets burger but i don't want besides fried chicken i'd keep my food out of a bucket please it's only because i've already had it out of a bucket for chicken so it's done what's done is done but the rest of my food yeah to me in a receptacle that bears food not you know It's a mean receptacle that bears food, not, you know, cock or some kind of industrial flop. We've already said chicken's the only quantity that you can sell by the bucket. That's it.

That's all you're allowed. Oh, my word, it is amazing. And word is all capital letters. This person is very specific. They go on to rave more about burger buckets. They have a donut burger. I have yet to try it, but I cannot wait. Great, thanks.

They have a donut burger. I've heard tell of the donut burger. Wow. Pray tell about the donut burger. Highly recommend to stop by if you're ever traveling near downtown St. Augustine. So all about the burger buckets, everyone. So donut burgers there three stars it's a beautiful city but the homelessness throughout the village is out of control i mean it's sad to see and you feel for these people but it really takes away from the beauty with all the pan handling we have changed that word forever we

really have to us that's a very specific behavior that has nothing to do with asking for money. Going around fucking their cousins, stabbing their mom in the face in the front yard of the trailer. That's panhandling in our vernacular. People who pandle oftentimes will panhandle. People who pandle. I love it. Two stars. Two stars here for the next one.

Beautiful city, but very good old country. Good old boy country. But very good old boy country. They don't like outsiders unless you're a tourist spending money. Very, in all capitals, racist and not LGBT friendly. Not welcoming to live just to visit. Okay if that's what you like. So that's what good old boy place means.

That's explained it. Two stars. Do not come here. There is so much traffic and locals can't even enjoy their city. So please, for the love of God, do not come here. All capital letters. No punctuation. That's that's screamed out a car window. That's the equivalent of someone screaming the N. That screamed out a car window.

That's the equivalent of someone screaming the N-word at someone out the car window as they drive. In traffic. This is just a crazy. That's the guy that is tired. He wrote this in traffic. That's why there's no punctuation. He audio dictated it and it came out caps lock and then started talking one star yeah that one somehow wasn't one star one star my experience in this town after living

here for one year is horrid can't wait to move from the real estate agents and builders that rip you off to the contractors that don't show up or finish the job. Well, that's a lot of people on meth down there, so that's what happens. What are you going to do? I also think that there are some of the worst doctors here, too. How many doctors have you been here to in a year? What's wrong with you? The quality of restaurants is not as good. I mean, she could be sick.

Who knows? What's the matter with the burger buckets? Not as good as other towns or cities. No mention of the burger bucket here whatsoever. Taxes are the highest I've ever paid, and I have asked the public officials why. I would not rate this as a good town for retired people. The supermarkets are even overpriced, and I have lived in NYC, Idaho, and California. Yeah, well, head up 15 minutes to Jacksonville.

You'll be much happier. Yeah, I think. The school system, while it's supposed to be the best in the state of Florida, is not really saying much since most of the schools in Florida are very bad. I would say for a weekend away, St. A is fun if you like overpriced trinket shops, congested traffic, poor restaurant service, bars, and drunken college students to go with them, then this could be for you. There you go.

So from the greatest place in the world with the most amazing donut burgers to hell on earth. Please don't come. Please don't come. Population here of people who have came, 16,518 people have come. Wow. Way more female than male here. That's because it's a lot of old people too. Tons of old people here.

A lot of college age kids and and their great-grandparents, it seems like. I'll go to the college down there and I'll just live with great-grandma. That's what is happening here. 39% married, so they've either died off or aren't married yet. Divorce rate's a little bit higher. It's about the same amount people are single with children as the national average. Race of this town, 81% white, 9.5% black, 1% Asian, and 6% Hispanic, which is very low for anywhere in Florida. Very low, actually, and only a third of the national average, really. So religion in this town, this town 38 are religious and it's spread out mostly catholic is the highest one but it's not by much there's some baptists episcopalians are making a strong showing here yeah 0.5 jewish it's florida you can't get one percent jewish here i can't sing hava nagila in a florida episode fuck my life anyway i'm not happy with this at all uh politically here st john's county last election 36 percent democrat uh 63 percent republican one percent independent uh economy

here unemployment rate is about the same as the rest of the country which is insanely low like close to three percent the annual uh the median household income here is about $43,000 per year for a household, which is about $10,000 less than the national average. Yeah, and if everything's high-priced here, that's not good. Well, cost of living, we'll talk about as $100,000 overall, and that's normal, $100,000. Here, it's $102,000, so it's pretty close. Average, yeah. Housing is a $110 so uh you know median home cost here 352 100 and if we talked you into it and you have you want to be all you are craving

that donut burger we have for you the saint augustine florida real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,086, which is less than the national average. So I guess that's what to do if you're looking for, I guess, probably with the college kids too, you'd have a lot of rentals. Yeah, but if you can't afford $325. That's a good fact. That's good. We have a two-bedroom, two-bath, 672-square-foot house. It's the cheapest one I could find here. Cheapest one that was found. It's not that bad.

It's a little, like, worn down. You want to update it a little bit and do some yard work, but it's not a terrible house. It's not unlivable, and it's $159,000. Oh. So not too terrible then here's a three bedroom three bath 1536 square foot house um it looks it's red it's very florida you know you know that flows florida houses are all like salmon colored like dark salmon yeah it's not pink salmon like that not salmon like. Like when you get sushi. Yeah. That color.

They're all that color. There's a fireplace in the living room, which is very helpful in Florida. And there's a nice outdoor area and shit like that. It's not bad. Not the greatest, but not bad. 500,000 bucks for that, though. Holy shit. 1,536 square feet.

That's rough. Then I found six bedroom, three bath, which seems like there should be a couple more tea bowls for the b-holes there. At least one more. At least one more. 4,057 square feet. It's a newer house. You know, just kind of plain, but it has a water view, pool, hot tub, all that sort of thing. Nice deck.

There's a lake out back it's not bad one million dollars oh my god a million dollar chunk of florida enjoy holy shit that's too much things to do here that's a lot man things to do here the old jail museum oh oh boy uh Built in 1891, the old jail was designed to look like a fine hotel. An 1891 fine hotel. Yeah, it has a front porch. It's pink. It doesn't look like a jail. But inside, it's like a frontier era jail, like where you'd fall asleep and you'd try to get the key ring off the hook while the sheriff sleeps.

One of those. And the dog growls at you. The hinge door. Oh, well, you can only have a hinge door. Absolutely. There's no sliders back then. No. God, no.

They said costume deputies take you through the cell blocks, maximum security area, and the sheriff's living quarters. Out back, the gallows are a reminder of a harsher time. Oh, Jesus. I guess so. And help explain why old jail is now listed on the National Register of Ha Oh, Jesus. I guess so. And help explain why old jail is now listed on the National Register of Haunted Places.

I would say they take the newest tour in our old jail where you'll hear countless hair-raising stories of supernatural occurrences that have been reported here, including cold spots,

strange odors, unexplained banging noises, wailing and laughter, barking doors, dogs, orbs of light, and yes, even an apparition or two. Barking doors. Barking doors. You know how that goes. Those doors are the hinge doors.

Very barky. It's called Old Jail After Dark. St. Augustine's newest paranormal experience. Discover the grim history of St. Augustine's old jail after dark with our all new tour. Over two hours. I don't know why they do this. Why creep it out? It's fucking weird enough that we held people there.

Yeah. Those are fucking weird. I love looking at them. I don't need to think that there's ghosts here. No. You understand there probably is. Right. Is there a ghost here?

No. You understand there probably is. Right. Our two-hour, 30-minute chilling experience allows visitors to participate in an actual paranormal investigation of the city's most haunted building. Put your ghost hunting skills to the test in this brand-new intimate experience and prepare yourself for a spine-tingling night you'll never forget. Stop it. Wow. Then there's the Old City Pirate city pirate fest oh here we go they love the pirates here everyone is invited to become a pirate for a weekend at the old really do you

really want that i don't think you really want that i don't think you really want people to just be running all over pillaging and raping whatever they can get their hands on people people that fantasize about pirate stuff oftentimes gloss over or just forget entirely there's a lot of rape involved there's a lot of that not to mention what do you have to do not have any vitamin c for like three months working up to it you gotta have scurvy to be able to work with this. So it says, do you long for the days when pirates roamed the streets of St. Augustine? Not really. No, fuck no.

That's horrible. That would be a terrifying place to be. Terrifying. No trinket shops at all. Terrifying. Would you like to walk the streets of the city where famous pirates once raided their fortunes? No.

No. Famous pirates such as Andrew Ranson, Nicholas Cremant Robert Searle and Sir Francis Sir Francis Drake join the st. Augustine swashbucklers as we host the second annual oldest city pirate fest in the historical colonial quarter downtown st. Augustine oh my god

there's all sorts of shit here uh two with the dia takes the stage of the one night at 7 o'clock. Hailing from the great smoky mountains of Tennessee, the clan has been discreet with the sea. Oh, okay. Yeah, meaning family, more like a Scottish deal, because if you listen here, has been described as pure energy organically blending their Celtic, Native American, and tribal roots into a gypsy rock vibe that transcends category and genre. I would say so. That sounds like a crazy mix of music that I don't know what genre to put that in, so that's true. I wish they would do it dressed as the Klan, and it would make it so much funnier.

It would make it way scarier. Pirates and Klansmen, that's what's loose on the street. Jesus Christ. Then, Saturday night, Tom Mason and the Blue Buccaneers return. They're back by pirate demand to the Old City Pirate Fest. Their songs transport you to the wildest pub in Port Royal at the turn of the 17th century. Their CD, CD, mind you, the Blue Buccaneer songs,

inspired by the golden age of pirates, is a rowdy and evocative work that transcends any aspect of novelty that one might expect at first glance. Tom's theatricality and musicianship make for an explosive mix. His songs conjure up life on the seas in an era when the only hope

for destitute sailors was to quote go on the account to become pirates we've all blow the man down we're good wow that's what it's just over and over again that's my least favorite revelation about my dad since i met him is he was living in jacksonville florida living that lifestyle how fucking embarrassing jesus christ so there you go that's what's to do crime rate in this town property in this property crime in this town is all about a little over double the national average so yeah there's it is a pirate kind of a place here. There's a lot of it going on. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, very piratical, is almost just about double the national average as well. Jesus Christ.

Pirates roam free. This is what happens when you embrace the pirate lifestyle. Yeah, I think so. I think that fest spills over, man. It's bad. They need to reopen the old city jail, I think, because it's pirate time. You're encouraging murder, rape, robbery, and assault, you sons of bitches. That's all it is.

So speaking of that, let's talk about some murder. Usually, sometimes it's let's talk about a murder, a couple murders. Here, let's talk about many murders, possibly even more than we know about. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This is bad. First of all, I have to give credit where credit's due. A lot of information came from a book called Deadly Lust, A Serial Killer Strikes.

Hell, yeah. Yeah, so that sounds juicy. No, it's pretty gross. We'll get into this here. Let's go back in time a little bit here december 29th 1996 okay i mean the tree is still up you know what i mean it's a yeah yeah it's not even new year's getting ready for new years and uh 96 there's a young lady named lucy ramer here she's 32 years old yeah This is in Asheville, North Carolina.

That's where we start our story here. Yes, it's not bad. So she was Lucy Raymer, not doing too well on December 29th, 1996. Her body was found in a ditch off Chun's Cove Road the day after Christmas. It was found on the 26th of December. They get the autopsy back by now, and an autopsy shows that she died after suffering a pretty massive skull fracture. Yeah, not great at all.

There was a cop here, a guy named Jack Shelton. Yes, no, he's not the cop. I'm sorry. A man named Jack Shelton. He leaves his home, goes out for a walk with his dog, Bowser. Hell yeah. I love when there's a dog involved in our stories. The weather was cold out. Bowser is a terrier and they stay go to the same place all the time. Dogs always stop. You have a dog. They sniff the same fucking thing every time. You're like, will you stop? Yes. a deer shit there three months ago yes that happened let's go yeah good christ so sniffing all this type of shit they walk toward a road that dead ends which is their normal deal and um you know they're they it's beautiful it's it's picturesque there's a stream nearby yeah they're in kind of a rural area. It's beautiful.

It's gorgeous. This is Asheville. It's beautiful. He's walking his dog. This is a nice morning. You know what I mean? He's probably got coffee brewing. He's going to have a cup when he gets back, I think.

He might have one of those little thermoses, the walk-in thermos. You know what I mean? That's possible. A little sip cup. That's possible. There was less of those in 96, though. Yeah. In 96, you'd wait until you got home. Yeah.

Starbucks made us make our own or buy our permanent ones that we're not littering all the time or filling up the landfill with just coffee cups but everybody's got these things in their hands yeah back then it was the fucking giant one with the cup on top that was a thermos yeah it's a thermos so you took that to work or something if you're going out for a walk you go get the coffee started i'll be back in 15 i'll be back in a minute i'm not to carry around the tar water cup. No, that's going to be too much. Just the pot with him swirling.

Mr. Coffee logo on the side. Yep. Popping. Plink. Tops the top up. So, yeah, the dog is approaching. It's pulling. The dog's pulling him.

Bowser's pulling at him at something near a concrete culvert and he's like jesus christ trying to pull the dog away you know you snap the leash a little come on buddy come on but um then this man sees what he thought were tennis shoes oh he's like that's interesting see some sneakers and then some jeans that seem to have legs in them and sneakers happen to have feet in them. So, yeah, this doesn't it doesn't look OK. He said he thinks at first maybe it's a kid trying to get like crawl up the culver or some kids play in there. So he's like, maybe that's it. He thought it was some kid.

He pulled the dog away. You know, that's it. But then he was like, let me make sure this is a kid trying. But maybe the kid some kid. He pulled the dog away. That's it. But then he was like, let me make sure this is a kid trying to. But maybe the kid needs help. You know what I mean? Who knows? Who knows? Maybe it's a guy that's asleep.

We don't know. Who the hell knows what happened? It could be a guy who was trying to get up there, fell down. So he gets a little bit closer. And then he ends up seeing face down in the stream a fully clothed woman who's clearly not alive. If you're face down in a stream, that's a bad sign, first of all. Most people don't sleep like that. No, not at all.

She has dark wavy hair, a jean jacket, and she's in the stream. So he runs home, calls the police, obviously. This guy does. His day is fucked now. I mean, this is... That in the stream. So he runs home, calls the police, obviously. This guy does. His day is fucked now. I mean, this is... That's the worst. Yeah. I can't go anywhere now.

Yeah. Just me and Bowser, you know, going out for a nice, serene walk and have a cup of coffee when I get home and all this. And now, oh, no. Now there's a dead woman and, you know, there's cops and it's a crime scene and everything like that so um yeah they end up the investigators come in they find exactly what he said there's by now there's a big crowd of neighbors gathered and you know there's a duck pond nearby and all the ducks have scattered there's so much activity happening and all this type of shit

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at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy

nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to

discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, They said the woman has been dead for some hours, but not days, basically. It's pretty fresh. She's pretty fresh there. This scene is pretty fresh is what I'm getting at. So they think it might have happened on Christmas the day before is the way it looks. So the road was they cordoned off all the shit like that. And they they questioned this guy just to make sure he hasn't didn't see anything else they don't they don't really suspect him he doesn't seem like uh you

know a guy who did this but um they examine everything photograph everything remove her the uh wound marks on the woman's face uh now they see that she's got wounds all over her face she's clearly been beaten so now they're like, okay, there's, what's going on here? This doesn't look like natural, doesn't look like she had a heart attack and fell in the stream or something here. So there's a problem here. So they determined that she had been killed

late on Christmas night or early morning hours of the 26th there. So very, very fresh. They find an uncashed Wendy's payroll check in her pocket oh that's a good clue from wendy's yeah with her name on it uh the name lucy arnett ramer so that's her so they identify her um then now on sunday december 29th where we start here at 10 30 a.m so this is probably three to four days after the death here.

A call comes into the sheriff's office from a taxi driver up here in Asheville. Now, this guy's name is John Pearson. He tells this detective that he read about this woman got killed in the stream and he read about it in the paper and he wants to talk about it. It's interesting. Sure. He said, well, come on down to the station so this pearson the cab driver explains that he recognized this lucy ramer's photo in the newspaper because he's had her in a pet as a passenger in the cab several times okay that makes sense he knows who she is and he said on matter of fact reading it they think that she was killed on christmas

night well on that night i drove her to a small trailer in the taps rv and mobile home park on tunnel road in the town of otin unbelievable so yeah if you're looking back that might be a good place for you to start basically so yeah that's a great clue to have you you're trying to track down what somebody's last movements are. If you get somebody that said, I drove her to this address, now you have a physical address to examine. Wasn't it great when newspapers existed? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, now it would fall through every crack. Nobody would know. The cab driver would never see that she's missing or dead. No, but this one, somebody probably left the paper on the seat the seat of the cab he opens it up fuck i know her or anything you go to this even when you go in a convenience store sitting on the shelf there you look over if you see someone you know on the front page you go what happened to her i drove her shit so um on the way to this trailer at the taps rv mobile home park he uh lucy told him that she and her husband weren't she and her husband weren't living together at this point and that she was staying at the

trailer park with another man a man a man named william daryl lindsey so she was talking to him i don't know she gets pretty deep with the cab driver this is like taxi cab confessions know she gets pretty deep with the cab driver this is like taxi cab confessions mountain style like yeah we've taken it out of manhattan and taken it to the more rural areas of the country to get their stories and that's what she's getting here i'm living with billy d lindsey um yeah billy d lindsey and me are living at the trailer here okay so lucy asked the cab driver pearson to wait outside while she went inside to get cab fare from for him i don't have it on me but i'll run in and get it yeah so she does she comes back with the cab fare and even gives him a kiss on the cheek and wishes uh and they wish each other a merry christmas there is so much in this that is fucking unbelievable already so weird this

is the friendliest like cab driver have you ever been in a cab i would never kiss a cab driver in my fucking life and if you did they probably stab you in the throat that's the point i've never been with in a cab where the guy's like hey buddy thanks for the cab fare why don't you come over here and give uh give uncle henry a peck on the cheek, will you? Come on. Come over here. I know there's a lot of stubble, but come on. It's going to be worth it.

I put Old Spice on this morning. Give it to me. That makes sense. And if that is still true then, that that's a weird thing to happen, that makes sense why he would recognize her face. Oh, that's that one that kissed me. You know what I mean? That's what I mean, yeah. It makes it memorable. I memorable how many times he must have driven her must have so many times a

bunch of times for this to happen so um anyway they wish each other merry christmas now they take down all of his information at the police station and um he ends up this guy takes the police to the rv park and they take him there in the police car and he points out that that's the travel trailer it's point it's parked right near the entrance and by the park office and he said that's where i dropped lucy off the previous night and um that's it they leave him in the park police car and they go up to the trailer which i don't know if that's i don't know if that's procedure we're gonna keep you along with this just in case that's weird we're not gonna we'll drop you off and come back or maybe

this is just you know they're investigating a murder there's so much urgency here i guess yeah you think they would maybe take two cars and take them back i don't know it's just a strange thing to do because you don't know this person could be dangerous they could you got a witness in the car what if you don't want to have the witness and the suspect cross paths probably. That's not great. And it's not like he's there to identify anyone because he already identified Lucy and she's dead. That's the only person he sees.

Yeah, he gave the information he knows. So yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. So anyway, they go up and as they get there, a man emerges from the door. Yeah, Billy Dee. Well, we'll find out. He's a middle-aged looking guy. He's staring at them like, what the hell do you want from me?

What are you here for? And they said his clothing was rumpled and his hair is uncombed and unkempt. Somebody that lives in a trailer park. Someone who lives in a, not a trailer park, in a travel trailer by the front of a trailer park. He's living in an auxiliary trailer park. This isn't set up with lattice around it and maybe a little landscaping. He's living like the maintenance man of a trailer park. He gave the office guy an extra 50 and cash on the side if he could just park here for a while.

That's what it seems like. I'll give you 50 if you just let me park it. Say it broke down or something. I don't know. Are you going to answer the door rumpled clothes and messy hair you're damn right i will that's right i am all right fine you have to that's part of the that's part of the deal part of your lease is you must answer the door looking like a murderer that's the only it's the only thing that's there they're gonna want to search your house for bodies when they see you okay all right

good you gotta play the role man Are you in it or not? Listen, we all have things. One of the ladies down there in her trailer, she's the crazy cat lady. She wears nothing but house dresses, and she has 20 cats. She's allergic to cats. She hates cats, but it was part of the deal. That guy down there, he's the guy who throws shit at kids if they come near his trailer. Get the hell out of here, you sons of bitches.

And he takes all their footballs. That that guy another guy down there always leaned over the front of his truck with his ass crack out we don't know if he's working on that truck but he's there it's never started once the truck has never turned over we've never heard it start and of course that's the house where they have 17 children you know one bedroom trailer we don't know how it works but it was hard to get find them but i found them signed them right up it's not on us it's their it's their problem it's their problem so they ask him can you identify yourself sir you know to which he'd be like you're at my house motherfucker i don't know you tell me first they probably did i'm sure

they said hi we're the police hi hi we're the police. Hi. Hi. We're the police. Police. Police here. He said, I'm William Lindsay. Yeah. So that's great. They said, well, we'd like to talk to you about a young lady named Lucy Raymer. And they said he seemed unbothered by it totally. He said, sure, whatever you need, I guess, and accompanied them back to the station.

I hope in a separate car. I hope he didn't pile in the back seat with the witness. How you doing? Pretty good. What are you doing here? I'm a murder suspect. No, I'm a murder witness. Nice to meet you.

Great. Wonderful in the same case. Do you know Lucy? I do. Oh. Oh, no. I pointed him to your house. Well, you're a dick.

Yeah, thanks a lot. So upon entering the, oh my God, god they did too i forgot about this upon entering the police car lindsey didn't recognize pearson who's in the passenger seat why would you put the suspect in with the fucking witness this is what we're talking about we say we're going to make fun of you know we say at the top we'll make fun of a murder we'll make fun of small town bumbling police forces when a police force says we got a witness let's just put them in the same car as the suspect uncuffed and we'll just drive to the fucking station like that and hope it doesn't come up that's not good police work it's bad procedure it's bad endangering a witness for sure that's either laziness of that'll be fine or they don't

have another cop to drive him back they only have well we only have one car you took it out of the fuck you want from following your wife's car bob you drove your wife's didn't you drive your wife's lumina in today we'll follow behind us yeah what's going on so anyway he didn't recognize him. But by the time they arrived at the station, Lindsay sees Pearson's cab in the parking lot and realizes who he is. Yeah. This is terrible. At this point, he said that Lindsay becomes noticeably different. His face goes ashen.

I mean, they blew the surprise of the whole thing of getting him in the interrogation room and then talking about it. Now they kind of blew it. So they Mirandize him once they get in there, obviously. I hope anyway. During two hours of interrogation, it's by a Sergeant Harrison. He, after a little while, it doesn't take very long. I mean, two hours is not very long to crack somebody on a murder charge. He says, all right fine

i killed lucy and dumped her body gave it right up billy d no problem yeah i did it so what um he said but it was an accident that's the thing the killing part total accident but i did dump her on purpose because obviously what am i going to do with a corpse? I mean, 98% of murder is an accident, so that makes sense. It's totally an accident, obviously. So according to his account, he said he arrived at his trailer between 5 and 5.30 p.m. And she arrived there in the cab. Lucy did. And she asked him for money to pay the cab fare, which all lines up.

She ran inside, came out. He reported that he gave her $11 for the fare and $4 for the tip, $15 total. It was a 10 and a 5. So after the taxi left, he said Lucy asked Lindsay to take her to buy some dope, some heroin. So that's what she was after. He said he took her to a housing project near mission Memorial hospital and gave her a hundred dollars for Christmas. Wow.

That's nice. Thanks. Thanks uncle Bill. Uh, thanks uncle Billy D and another hundred dollars to have sex with him. Oh, so yeah. And then a Christmas bonus, I guess. Here's your Christmas bonus and uh, here's your paycheck that's what she said that's what basically what he said here and he said in the police in the interrogation he said she spent

the entire amount on crack cocaine walked in came out with a you know like a santa claus bundle like a big red bag over her shoulder full of crack cocaine um so after their return to his trailer he says they sat and talked for a few minutes and then went into the bedroom and had sex obviously because he said he paid her and then afterwards lucy smoked some crack uh he said and then he said that he went to bed about 9 30 and she came into the bedroom between 10 and 11 p.m. What does he have, like a pretty woman situation going on here? This is like she stays over? What is happening? They both went to sleep, but he said he awakened around 2 a.m.,

rolled over, and put his arm around her, and he said, quote, she was very cold and I could not hear her breathing. He said, I thought she was dead and I got scared. Well, yeah, that person in your bed is not great. After putting her, so then he said, you know, he said her injuries were because, quote, because she has, why does she have marks all over her face? When I picked her up to take her to my van, I dropped her. That's why, you know, just, you know how that is. So then he put her into his Ford Bronco instead and drove her to the end of Chun's Cove Road.

He said, quote, the first road I could find. He said he reached the dead end, turned back and dropped her body near a duck pond, just like where they found her. So, yeah, he says says that so they get a search warrant for his trailer and um among the evidence they find there is a crudely drawn map showing where he left her body he drew a fucking map to it dude what does that tell you without that tell you without the cops asking for it you know it was in his house when he searched it he had like he just drew it to keep it that means yeah that guy, in case they got to go back and remember this. It's a murder scrapbook, I'm sure.

He has like a lock of hair. He's a fucking dirtbag. So what does that tell you if he drew a map that needs to remember where the body is? He either needs to go revisit it or just remember in general. But either way, that means there's going to be more. Because how do you forget that unless there's gonna be more because that's uh how do you forget that unless there's a whole bunch you know what i mean i would say well that tells me that yeah that makes me that's something that ted bundy would do because he's gonna go back and do terrible

things to that corpse that's the way it sounds to me or yeah maybe it's just for memories so the detective here detective harrison he shows lindsey explicit photographs of her autopsy oh jesus which is um you know just to see what he does just to see his response react to see his reaction fucked up man they do they do shit like that a lot they'll put the murder weapon sometimes they'll just have it on the table when you walk in and just to see if you'll look at it and stare at it what your what your body language will portray about your connection to that weapon and shit like that that's very common man has to guess what that is yeah yeah they'd be like what's up with that or they just kind of look at it and be like you know curiosity but then concentrate but

no there's people who have killed with that weapon they're're like, oh, fuck, they have it. Oh, shit. Oh, look at that. Yeah. You can see the difference. So they said he shows no emotion or repulse or anything when they show him graphic autopsy pictures. Like he's Dr. Bodden or some shit? Like he's seen this every day? Good Lord. No, that's a bad sign, by the way.

That's a bad sign. Today, there's so many people will be like, oh, how cool. Yeah, absolutely. They should have asked him beforehand, are you like a true crime aficionado? And if he said no, then you show him the photos. Otherwise, if he's a true crime aficionado. So many people would be like, oh, wow. We have listeners who are like 40-year-old ladies who cross-stitch who would be like, ooh, do you have more? I'd like to see the head if you have the head would you do you have the head a picture

of the head would be good i heard it was very gross that's that's i'm told it was a 38 caliber can i see that exit wound looks looks like a 40 to me but okay i mean whatever i guess if you want to be technical about it but back then you would expect that to shock somebody. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Not, not,

not normal. That's the first time I saw autopsy on HBO. I threw up. I can't watch that shit. I cannot watch it. Crazy. Dr. Button is the most fascinating man on the planet,

but his job is so gross. It's the grossest that was on for 7,000 episodes. I watched six minutes of it. It was so repulsed. I never did it. And look at what we do. You know what I mean? But it's too much for me.

I don't like that graphic shit. I threw up. I was like, what? They're showing this. This is almost like a cold-blooded or like a psychopath test that they're giving him quickly to see if he's repulsed. Kind of like the yawn thing. Have you ever heard that yeah yeah if if you yawn all the time and someone doesn't yawn back that's not a good sign that's a crazy person that's a person to be afraid of because

they don't connect that's a that's a psychopath trait i'm sure it's completely disconnected from you other things yeah but they're completely disconnected from from any sort of human vibe basically so anyway they also show him uh there's also evidence collected at the crime scene blood samples and all this sort of shit and based on all of that they said that they felt there was ample reason to hold him for further investigation so we're gonna hang on to him for now so 12 days after the murder hang on to him now he just admitted to murdering we should well he admitted to ditching the body but he didn't admit to murder and they don't really have proof because they need the ought this is i think the autopsy was still coming back here and all this type of shit so i think they need a little bit

more because he her skull could have been crushed they'd need to further examine if he dropped her on her fucking head on the way in the driveway or something like that but you know so they're they're thinking about it this way um and they have him on the disposal of a body and desecration of a body anyway but they're gonna hang on to him for the murder and look into him a little bit more here so 12 days after the murder uh so it's january 6th at 11 25 p.m he is incarcerated in the buncombe county detention center and he has to talk to the sheriff okay i'd like to talk to bobby medford please and at that time he changed his statement he goes okay i gotta tell you something. Um,

Lucy stole 1200 or $200 from me. I didn't give her $200. Uh, she stole it from me and she wouldn't give it back. Even though I asked her if I found out that she did it and I asked her for it several times. He says when she refused that he got angry and punched her in the face. Okay.

And he says, quote, I didn't think i hit her that hard i didn't mean to hurt her that bad you know killer that's hurt her pretty fucking bad he's saying he bruce lee one inched her and she's dead dead one shot wow yeah she's like a shaolin man he's a shaolin master just one pow done wow so yeah it's not a good story really no there's multiple injuries too so he's like well one's a punch one's getting dropped you know it is not great so this newspaper clipping that the sheriff that the taxi driver saw and that you know got him in the position he's in to begin with

in january 97 that newspaper clipping ended up being enclosed in a Christmas card that was sent to the St. John's County Cold Homicide Case Task Force here. OK, they sent to one of the detectives down there and it was to basically they were showing him this clip from North Carolina. this clip from North Carolina and this detective in St. John's County in Florida said, I dispatched detectives because the facts in the case in North Carolina were similar to facts in some of our cases. Some of the go, let's go talk to this guy.

Oh boy. So then he says, quote, we've been able to connect Mr. Lindsay with each of these women and have determined he may be responsible for their murders. Dear Christ. Um,

yeah, they're interested in talking to him because his name keeps popping up in all of these stories of somewhere and something it's there whose name keeps popping up of course william daryl lindsey but he's known as red bird what what is it with the birds on this show what is it with the birds everybody i don't understand it we can't pocket robins murder meth falcons murder parrots we these fucking birds are coming from everywhere and now we have red bird the serial killing asshole his name why do they call him that do we have explanation his hair's not even red it's brown i don't know he He's just Redbird. Why? Because he's on this show, so he's got to be

named after a bird of some kind. Redbird. Unbelievable. Or alternately, and this is out of his mouth too, what do you go by? Well, Redbird. People call me Redbird. Either that or Crazy Bill. Great. Perfect. Well, Crazy Bill, let's sit down. Crazy Bill woke up next to a corpse? That's what we're supposed to believe? Don't believe you, Bill. Hey, Redbird. Redbird. Crazy Bill. Woke up next to a corpse? I'm not surprised. Not a good story, Redbird. I don't know about that, Redbird. I don't know about that already. Holy shit.

about that red bird i don't know about that already holy shit crazy bill that's almost as good as satanic bill my guy so red bird crazy bill over here and he then tells the cops this okay this is what he tells them when they start talking to him about possible other murders quote oh my god you've got to understand that there's a good bill and a bad bill good bill is a decent person bad bill is a person society needs to be afraid of oh boy that must that's chilling i would imagine if you're like maybe we can clear some murders and he's like well let me tell you about good bill and bad bill and red bird and also crazy bill i'd be like oh no this is going in a direction I don't want it to go. How many serial killers have said that, too, by the way? Oh, yeah.

There's a bad this and a good this. I'm a nice John Wayne Gacy when I'm entertaining the kids. But then bad John Wayne Gacy just shows you the rope trick. It's not good. Wow. So, yeah, the name kept popping up. They said that in all of these cases that they were investigating for over a 10-year period in Florida, the name Redbird kept popping up. Well, then she went over here.

Redbird was around. Redbird was always Redbird's around. It's like, who is this Redbird and where the fuck is he? Why is he always around? What's going on here? Who is this Redbird and where the fuck is he? Why is he always around? What's going on here?

So the name appeared in several reports given by people on the street when prostitutes disappeared. Oh, boy. Yeah, fellow workers and also just people hanging around the street. We saw Redbird coming around here. So that came up in several cases. bird coming around here um so that came up in several cases however he seemed to kind of have when they went through everything he just seemed to be one of the guys who hangs out at quote unquote crackhead corner red bird yeah hangs out at crackhead corner of course he does with crazy bill and satanic bill so anyway uh crackhead corner they ended up just basically being like Of course he does. With Crazy Bill and Satanic Bill. So anyway. Crackhead Corner.

They ended up just basically being like, well, he's one of the Crackhead Corner guys who hangs out there. And there's a lot of people who come up in the reports that hang out at Crackhead Corner. So I guess he's just a crackhead moving on, you know. On the corner. That's it. Not a viable suspect. Just one of the regulars down there. That's it. Not a viable suspect. Just one of the regulars down there.

He was known to frequent the fast food restaurant where many of these ladies picked up their dates in the area and was frequently seen driving in the area in this area, frequented by drug dealers, prostitutes, street hustlers of all kinds, basically. So crackhead corner is what it is jesus christ is need we say more not much for everyone out there what do you think is on crackhead corner like it's pretty self-explanatory explain crackhead corner is that where the new preschool is i've heard excellent things about a really authentic mexican place moving into there is that is it good star Five Star Montessori School is there. Oh, it's the best in town. It's wonderful. No, it's Crackhead Corner. We know what happens there. I heard they're selling a lot of vinyl out of that place, too.

The up-and-coming trends most start there. It's all there. It's all there, Jimmy. It's very much like Brooklyn. That's what it is. It's Williamsburg, part part two it's really there's williamsburg and there's crackhead corner they both are the hit places to be yeah so after they bring him down here they speak to him about the five slayings he tells them bad bill is something

society needs to work out and uh watch out for and then he said yes um yeah i killed all those women yeah sure i did it um gives them details that we're going to get into in a moment here um the police the detective who was interviewing him said quote he did express to me that he was very remorseful and that after he was caught he wanted to let the families know his remorse and also to clear all the cases he was involved in he indicated to me that he had something wrong with him that caused him to do these things from time to time. Time to time. That's a lot. Time to time. That's, you know, like a serial killer from time to time.

You know, he has cool down periods and then he kills again. Things like that. What are the things you do from time to time? Mine are eat at Wendy's. If I killed a woman every time i ate wendy's imagine that that's a lot of women you would have killed a woman on the way from pittsburgh to columbus yeah yeah it would have been you would actually what you ate would have counted for two i think because that was quite the burger i don't know you while you're driving like a monster i

love i love a double mayonnaise dripping out of things it's like what is wrong with you you're like you're getting anything i don't want anything now you want nothing really it's delicious i swear to god all those i'm gonna push this thing down my throat look how great it is oh man which i do love a double but that mayonnaise made me are fine so now they've said all a lot of these women they're going to be searching for in area ponds and these little borrow pits. You know what a borrow pit is?

A borrow pit is apparently, I didn't realize it was exactly how it sounded. It's where they take dirt and borrow it to bring it somewhere else. Not really borrowing it because they're not going to bring any back. It's they dig a big pit because they need dirt somewhere. Now there's just a big pit.

They just steal fill? Yeah, they just take fill and it's a borrow pit. There it is. There's big holes. Someone needed dirt. That's making holes. And there's so many of these in the story. Really?

I knew where every borrow pit in the world was. It's crazy. That's so weird. The detective here says this about the whole, when he's going to describe to the press what's going on. He says, quote, we look at these women as having alternate lifestyles. Most of them were drug involved. Our main key is that they were alive human beings at one point, and now they are dead at the hands of a very serious murderer. Until recently, up until recently, we weren't sure if we had one killer or more than one killer so yeah that's the

other thing all of these and we'll talk about some of these ladies because they all have they all have backstories they're all people with families and lives and you know shit like that so you know he picks them up off crackhead corner like they're just're just cockroaches that he's like, I'm going to smash that one and smash that one. But it's pretty gross, honestly. So to talk about him, let's get into old William Darrell Lindsay. He's born August 18th, 1935. Wow. Yeah, 1935.

He was actually born in Armstrong. He was actually born with the last name of Armstrong. But when he's five months old, his parents are driving or he's born in March 1935. I'm sorry. August is when this happened. August of 1935. He and his parents are driving in the car in a 1935 car. So a big boat.

No car seat or safety features. Big boat. This is a fucking features big boat this is a fucking tea bucket this is a big metal shit the 30s those were big old fucking steel boxes by then those that's like the 40s isn't it like the 30s is still like tea buckets right now they had those like dusenbergs and shit were out in the 20s yeah i guess yeah yeah yeah once once they were driving on roads and cities they had like that yeah they had to put some metal on it when they bashed into each other. Yeah.

So they're driving, parents in the front seat, infant son in the back seat. We don't know why, but their car careened off the road and crashed. Oh. A deputy, a police deputy cruising the highway near the town of Palatka, Florida, noticed this fucking twisted vehicle on the side of the road and pulled up, walked over and this windshield's all smashed. It's a small sedan. He saw two, what he described as badly mangled bodies in there.

Oh no. Badly mangled bodies, a man and a woman. Neither one was moving. Oh, no. Badly mangled bodies, a man and a woman. Neither one was moving. He forced the door open with some kind of tool and checked for vital signs. And he said he knew they were dead before he even checked for vital signs.

It was pretty obvious. Both of them. Both of them. So he returned to the patrol car to report the accident to headquarters, get some other people out of here to help haul these bodies to the morgue and get this wreck off the side of the road. And right as he was doing that, he heard an infant cry. No fucking way. Yep, he heard the infant cry, ran back to the vehicle like, holy shit, found the baby, five months old, on the floor wedged between the front seat and the back seat that had been smashed and pushed together.

He just has some light scratches and a couple of bruises but no evidence of any serious injury whatsoever unreal parents mangled he's fine toss a coke can between the seats and munched around him wow it was totally fine hopefully maybe some fast food wrappers you know cushioned his blow i don't know i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye bye the official

jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So now very recently, by the way, around this strange time in St. Augustine, another couple, Cecil and Olin Lindsay had been their infant son just died. Oh, perfect. Like the week before. I mean, not. Oh, great. Oh, is that you think they told her down at the town? Oh, perfect. Like the week before. I mean, not. Oh, great. Oh, is that what you think they told her down at the town? Oh, your son died? Perfect.

Boy, do I have news for you. That crib will not go to waste. Hold on. Don't throw it out yet. Baby's shoes never worn? I got someone for you. Got you covered. I got someone for you.

Got you covered. So he said they heard that he was, they knew the Armstrongs, heard that the baby was an orphan now, so they applied to adopt him, and it was approved. And he came in, and they made him their son. They named him William Darryl Lindsey and called him Billy. Billy D. Lindsey. Little Billy. That's how it is. Little Billy D. Billy Billy D Lindsay little Billy D the family moved I lived in st. Augustine on Sylvan Drive and yeah it was a modest homes decent nice place though it's in

the 30s I mean you know we're talking pre-world war two here so they had three other children James sue and Alice here so uh you know or james sue alice and verna were their kids sue alice sue alice yeah sue alice yeah sue alice so um yeah his father was a well-liked guy he was an appliance salesman and drove a longer a laundry truck but his most treasured thing that he did his father was he played the role of ponce de leon at saint augustine's fountain of youth there's his passion project yeah he's like uh he's like a renaissance fair actor that's what he's that's what he does he lives the pirate lifestyle yeah well pons de leon here yeah he uh he would be fully costumed in the military regalia and uh tell tales about the explorer and blah blah blah and all that type

of shit there so um yeah he would do all of that and everybody liked his dad seemed like a likable guy um his mother not a little bit different here from what i understand the house was run pretty strict and that included frequent beatings and extreme like being restricted to your room, being put in closets and that sort of thing. Not very good. Yeah. During preschool and elementary school, they were only allowed to play in their own yard, even though they lived in like a small town, very nice little neighborhood that was very safe and all the other kids were allowed to play outside. They can only play like within the confines of their own yard, which is normal now, but in the 30s, that was considered wacky time. What are you talking about?

Is that normal now? In elementary school? To be like, don't run down the street? Where the fuck do you live? Are you kidding me? I don't know. My grandma's house, we had 12, 13 kids on the same street we'd all wander down to somebody else we did now i'm talking did you let your daughter wander down the street when

she was seven no i used to go down the street and just knock on some old lady's door because she'd give me candy literally i would just i had no idea it was like four they'd look for me i was fucking gone i just take off. Nobody cared. There was two old men on the street that I would walk down to go home from school. I would stop at one and watch the Cubs and eat cookies and drink chocolate milk. I'd walk to the next one, watch the White Sox and have more chocolate milk. Jesus Christ. On my way home from school.

I'm going to say this. Surprising I got diddled so late i was gonna say i love you and i don't mean this in any bad way but you're lucky you were molested as little as you were honestly because you were really you were setting the table for like being the fucking getting passed around this town by all the perverts that was a real cock tease every pervert in phoenix was like i gave him ice cream like jesus christ at least i talked to an old lady she wasn't gonna diddle me she just gave me butterscotch candies they were the nicest old men sometimes they're just lonely old people yeah yeah that's that's what it was one guy was from chicago The other one was from like Illinois, Indiana.

One of them was from Illinois. One of them was from Chicago. One's from Illinois. So, you know how that is. Yeah, Gus. Just widowers, I guess, and just the sweetest men. They loved baseball and I loved baseball. So we talked baseball.

I don't know. It was kind of like the Sandlot, only without the adventure before. It was just, hey, kid, want to watch baseball? I was like, fuck yeah. Without all the friends. Yeah. Like the Sandlot. Except just me and the old man.

There's no friends that we like. This is more the sad lot. Yeah, it was the sad lot. His dog died. It didn't steal your ball. It just died. So he's super lonely. So now you're

hanging out with him eating fucking cookies and watching the cubs lose oh it's so sad what a sad state of affairs i was really tempting fate i deserved it i guess i've never said this to any victim but jimmy i think you were asking for it i'm not going to lie. Should have seen what I was wearing. Yeah. Oh, man. Terrible shit.

No, that is just terrible. You don't know any better when you're a kid. That's why you need your parents to supervise you. Right. That was my problem. I was walking down the street knocking on people's... My parents should have been supervising me. I shouldn't have known better when I was five.

You shouldn't have known better when you were five. No, were five someone should have been watching us was the point or noticing when we were missing it was six doors down from the school that guy was clearly standing on his porch going hey want to watch baseball ah smart kid you're right don't come in hey how about you it's just it's herbert from family guys so anyway this is fucking crazy so the other kids weren't really allowed to come over either so it's not even like that you want your friends to play with your friends have them come over here this is a little bit weird when they reached kind of their teen years, there was a cowbell on the front porch that they'd hit to call everybody home. Like they were on a farm and dinner was ready or some shit. Dinner bell, huh?

And if they didn't come home immediately from the cowbell, it resulted in physical punishment, which was for everything. Harsh physical punishment, even for small infractions. A couple of times, Billy was beaten so bad from his mom that he had welts all over his body and he had to stay home from school. Shit like that. At least he didn't die in the car accident. That's a good thing. Yeah, you're still lucky. So he would get, well, I guess not.

No, not when he's ugly. No, it's not good at all. Well, his punishments would include beatings with everything from a leather strap to a frying pan. Holy shit. That's not good. Jesus, we're talking about kind of Richard Kuklinski type shit now. As well as he would have, she would like pull his hair and pinch him and stuff like that. But the other ones could cause head injuries with a frying pan.

So the family, and she was in charge too. I mean the mom was in charge and the dad was out pretending to be Ponce de Leon, so he didn't give a shit what was going on. And there was a lot of control in the family and things like that. And he was mad at his dad because his dad didn't stick up for him. His dad didn't stop this from happening, which happens a lot in abuse. His dad didn't stop this from happening, which happens a lot in abuse. In abuse situations, a lot of times the kid will be more mad at the parent who didn't abuse them than they are at the abusive parent. And it's usually the dad doing the beating and the mom is afraid to step in because if he'll hit the fucking kids, he'll clearly hit me too. Yes.

Or you don't know what has been built up for 10 years before that, the mental whatever. I guess you got to see it from the dad's point of view. It's like, I don't know, it's a up for 10 years before that, the mental whatever. So it's, yeah. I guess you got to see it from the dad's point of view. It's like, I don't know, it's a woman. How hard can she hit? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's probably not as bad as they're making it seem.

I don't know. Who knows? She could be a big woman. We don't know. She could be a strong woman. She might not be 100 pounds. She's using a fucking frying pan, James. She's good enough.

Anybody with a frying pan. If you have a toddler who comes at you with a frying pan, you're hey watch out there buddy you're not like come on go on clock me on the noggin would you here there you go it'll make a funny sound you're not saying that i have a my little nephew shay i'm not putting frying pans in that kid's hand no he comes at me holding the dump truck up i'm what i'm covering my nuts i'm my nose. He's reckless in a plastic Fisher-Price truck. Oh, very, very reckless. Very. So his mother believed that people weren't very good,

and basically she would punish the children to make them perfect, is in her mind what she was trying to do. What has she been through? She wanted to drill in religious values that she felt god wanted them to have as well as what she said and so beating a kid with a frying pan is obviously what god had in mind that's how that's why frying pans came about yeah god plunked the idea in someone's head and they went a child beater made of iron with a handle and you've been cooking it and then they got hungry and they're like bet we could cook with that kid beater jesus christ so um his mother would also obviously psychologically abuse the kids

and that sort of thing he's never sexually abused or anything like that um father like i said mainly the thing he always did was the acting and then he had kind of odd jobs here and there doing different kind of shit his mother was a nurse at the local hospital, by the way. Oh, my God. Yeah. Check her background. Who'd she work on? Wow. Yeah, anybody die in her care?

No doubt. That sounds scary. He was about a C student in school, bullied and teased a lot, considered very quiet and meek, and also considered very slow and was held back a few times in school as well so it all checks out he also there's an incident where he um tortured and killed a cat in front of the other kids go on um so i i don't have exact details of a 1946 cat torture but okay there was other kids and he tortured a cat i don't know if that was to show like that he was fucking crazy not to mess with him or what.

That'll do it. That'll do it, I guess. And he also local boys that he wasn't a part of their group built a hut like a fort. Yeah. You know, you build a fort when you're a kid. He set it on fire. So, you know, he's got some problems. All okay no homers okay so he so out of the triad no bedwetting so out of the you know the typical old school triad they talk about he's got animal

torture and fire starting yeah down but uh not the bedwetting so animal murder and arson that's that's like yeah i can torture and murder yeah i've seen people fuck with cats i'm like what are you doing they're like yeah you're right and then they feel like dicks but then i've seen people like fucking kill cats and i've never seen that person again yeah no i never i would fucking not be not be okay with that never be around that person ever again no no i would have not been cool with that at all that's not okay don't fuck with animals why are you fucking with that don't fuck with animals or old people leave them alone don't fuck with anybody leave people alone what's a dude that picked on you kick his ass yeah i hope he deserves

it so he uh didn't graduate high school but he kind of went all through high school but didn't graduate at all so just kind of was like well i, I guess I'm done now. I'm not going back for summer school. So at age 21, he ends up fucking getting an inheritance from his parents that has been held in trust till he was 21. That's great. So all of a sudden he gets all his money. Yeah. His parents had to set aside and life insurance or whatever. So this is the time he

found out that he was adopted oh damn it now what the fuck they came to him and said oh a lawyer called him and said you have you know i have this inheritance for you from your who's from who from from your parents my parents are alive oh no they're not actually they're dead you're adopted when you were five months old he had no idea about that um he confronted his natural parents said why the fuck didn't you tell me i'm adopted what's up with that and she his uh adopted mother said well yeah you're adopted we adopted you and we knew you were getting an inheritance and by the way you're now gonna pay back debt for living in our home fuck you she now wants most of his inheritance as a raising fee as rent as like yeah yeah back rent she called it back rent which is and and to pay his debts to

them which is uh very interesting you're gonna finance my beatings fuck you that's crazy. So he was employed by the Pulling Typewriter Company for a while, and then he wasn't after a while. He keeps jobs for a short amount of time. He's fired for incompetence or petty thievery. He's the guy. He's a fuck-off, and they fire him. He doesn't last very long. Bad employee. He ends up moving away from Palatka, where this family was here.

He starts in 1956 after he spent a little time at the typewriter company. He starts working at Hudson Pulp and Paper Corporation. Yikes. And in 1958, at the age of 23, he finds a young woman that he can't live without. He finds a woman named Willa Jean. And they are married in 1958. And their first daughter, Beverly, is born in 1959. So right away, he also ends up having a daughter named Robin,

who we'll talk about later. Right after all this, he gets married. The first thing he does, because he needs some sort of stability in terms of some income and that sort of thing he joins the national guard at this point okay uh after he joins the national guard he begins to drink excessively as well yeah so i well when even when he's home not just when he's on duty and shit like hanging out with the guys and he also another little characteristic he brings home with him is he beats the shit out of his wife now as well. What the fuck?

He's now a drunk who beats the crap out of his wife where he wasn't before. He's a drunk wife beater. And did he keep the money or did he pay his mom? I don't think he kept it. I don't think he paid her. I think he left because he moved out of the house after that, moved away, got a job at the typewriter company. I think he paid her.

I think he left because he moved out of the house after that. Moved away. Got a job at the typewriter company. A couple of years later, he will begin to start using heroin intermittently as well. What is happening? I don't know what's happening. But Willa Jean was a waitress at a restaurant in Jacksonville when they were first married. And he would get jealous and accusatory that she was fucking patrons and you know all this sort of thing well it's the 50s if you make enough money then she won't work there because it's the 50s

yeah so you should make more money or not get married till you make more money that's on you yeah man i mean you're you're making ends meet here you got a young daughter what do you want so uh bill that's when he enlisted in the national guard he began staying out drinking after the guard meetings he'd come home drunk and beat the shit out of willa jean uh she later said quote bill would start using a lot of profanity and slapping me around he was jealous of me and he'd uh yell even if i was going out to work when we were fighting he'd yell i'll kill you i kill you. That's a bad sign, usually. After these episodes, she would leave him for a time. She'd stay away for a few weeks, but then he would swear that he's sorry and he's not going to happen again and he feels better now and all that kind of bullshit.

And so she would come back. And then he would beat the shit out of her again. And then she would leave. And then he would beg her um he would she would come back yeah and then he would beat the shit out of her again and then she would leave and then he would beg her and then they would come back and it was a cycle that kept happening over and over and over again which is very common in a abusive situation like this the leaving and the coming back um yeah so um they it's a lot and this i don't know what his deal is but he's's got a real he's got an anger toward the outside world sometimes. Yeah. Some people, like I said, describe him as the perfect southern gentleman, just a nice southern accent and a kind guy and real polite and shit like that.

And then other times complete psychopath. So now they don't ever they're not able to buy a house. It's mainly renting trailers is how they live. Bill and Willa Jean, usually in Palatka or Hastings, which is nearby. They moved to Tennessee in 1970. No kidding. Yeah. Starting over.

Starting over. And he found work in a steel mill. No heavy drinkers there um so it's all whiskey for christ's sake jesus uh the marriage continues to deteriorate obviously because this isn't going to get better with a change of scenery no this is about it was beverly not tennessee they loaded up the truck and moved to beverly you to beverly jesus christ he's like oh shit i was looking for swimming pools and movie stars and i just found a steel mill god damn it and wife beat it's a little different here i guess i better find oil first before i go there anyway i don't think i

can afford it so they he bill claimed that she began uh behaving bizarrely at this point. He said, quote, she called the president on the phone and tried to kill the children because they had rabies. That is a fascinating sentence. That's one sentence. She called the president on the phone then tried to kill the children because they had rabies.

So was she calling the president to tell him the children had rabies what was going on exactly and which president of the united states yeah or just like of the trailer park like what's going on what are we talking about here of the trailer park association obviously so yeah he claimed quote she tried to shoot me up with a shotgun and I had to tie her up. That's what he said. Okay, you are a fast man with a lasso. That is wild. Now, Willa Jean, on the other hand, you know, conversely, she claimed that he was drugging her after she found containers of phenobarbital in his closet.

And she would notice that she would feel tired and weird at the end of the night. It's a drug used for treatment of epilepsy and other shit, but it's also tranquilizer. So she would feel tired and then that's probably why. She's hitting her with barbiturates.

This is insanity, man. So we don't know how he got that or anything. She has no medical condition that would require it either. So in 1974, Billy Dee is under a lot of stress at this point, apparently, because he writes a seven-page suicide letter addressed to Willa Jean. That's a lot of grievances. That is a shitload. Yeah, that's not just me, me. That's a lot of grievances. That is a shitload. Yeah, that's not just me, me. I'm mad at other people.

Right. So she showed it to the police, and Lindsay was involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital for two weeks. Yeah. Yeah, they kept him a shorter amount of time, but they were like, seven pages is a lot. There's a lot to go over. So Willa Jean left during this time, took the were like, seven pages is a lot. There's a lot to go over. So Willa Jean left during this time, took the children, and moved to Ocala, where she rented a trailer on her own.

Okay. Okay. They stayed there for a little bit of time, but he's released from the hospital. And after a little bit, Bill asked, he said, I'm feeling much better now. I'd like to have the children for a weekend. Might I have a visit? Might I take them? I'm going to take them. I think Disney World is just opening.

I'm going to go to Orlando. I'm going to go down to Disney World. It's going to be fantastic. Just an unsupervised, I'll take them for a while, give you a break. Give me a weekend. You just wrote seven pages of reasons you don't want to be here. But I'm feeling much better now. That's the difference.

You got two days a page, sir. No. Yeah. And I mean, if someone is depressed and has a problem and they seek treatment and everything, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to see their kids at all. That's not what we're saying. No. But he's got more problems than just this.

No. Maybe I'll go to the park and you sit with me on a bench and watch them play that's what we'll do or you sit on a different bench because you're weird so he wants to take him for the weekend um she allows it i mean it's her father so she says you know if he's feeling better hopefully this is a new beginning for him with the kids she really really wants the kids and their father to be okay together. She's got shit to do, so I get it. Yeah. It's the other thing. Who knows?

So he takes them out for a drive and wrecks the car. Yeah. Yeah. Destroys the car. He has five kids with him, by the way. Oh, my God. He wrecks the car. Three of the kids are hospitalized.

Oh, I'm sorry. No, no. It's three kids. Sorry. Three kids. Two of them kids are hospitalized. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no. It's three kids. Sorry. Three kids. Two of them have concussions. One has a broken leg. He wrecked hard.

He wrecked hard. Yeah. Now, Willa Jean felt that this was an attempted suicide slash murder, and she was worried. She thought that he was trying to off himself and do it with the kids in the car. Yeah, because he found out that's how his parents died exactly maybe that's what it is now during these interviews that billy d is having with the police since he's you know telling the story here he claims to his to the police officers that quote his initial marriage had been to an ex-prostitute though he wasn't aware of her

past at the time they wed which is not true willa jean was not an ex-prostitute or anything like that so the reason why he thinks that though is because he reported that he had trouble satisfying willa jean sexually so she must be a prostitute it's gotta be numb down there my dick sucks so it must be i'm not good with my dick so it's gotta be that she's a prostitute and is worn out to the whole idea everywhere how do you not come oh my god that is ridiculous what do you what do you have the sense banged out of you down there? Now, he said that he went to when he was in psychotherapy with a psychiatrist during the 60s when this problem was occurring. He went for like six months, and during the six months he was there, the psychiatrist recommended he use a dildo as a way to resolve the issue.

Not kidding. So why don't you just, well, if your dick's not that good, you know, get something in there. Pinch hitter. Tap a pinch hitter, son. Where's the sixth man? Bring him off the bench. What's going on?

Get a teammate. I mean. I mean, shit. What are we talking about here? But he's got a point. If you're not happy because you're not satisfying your wife, fucking satisfy her then. Get in there and work it over yeah that's what i mean work until your mission is accomplished what are we talking about i came and shrug your shoulders and go make a sandwich that's not how you do it

if this is bothering you then that's how you do it this is hilarious according to willa jean this did not work at all she was still not okay he's not even good with a dildo this guy it's bad sexually not good at sex so he said the next thing he told the cops after the whole prostitute dildo conundrum, he says. The suggestion of getting some fresh legs in here. He said that he and Willa Jean were in a swingers group comprised of couples who exchanged partners. Well, that's swinging, yes. They were in a swingers group. Here's the definition the definition we're aware we know what that is um so yeah he was into that and uh that's what he said we don't know if that's true or not though

so yeah this is fucking getting crazy so in 1974 of somebody i can't find out who he's arrested for aggravated assault of somebody. I don't know. I don't think it was Willa Jean, as a matter of fact. Aggravated, though. Aggravated assault in 74. 1975, Willa Jean and Billy Dee get divorced. Okay.

Okay. Now, this is good. Take these kids, go somewhere else, right? No. He gets custody of all five children. There's five children. Are you ready to give him five children and say, you can keep them alive until they're 20, right? Aggravated assault a year ago.

A year ago. Seven-page suicide letter was also a year ago. Psychiatric hospital also a year ago. Can't make a woman come. No, all the time. That's not a year ago. That's a woman come no all the time that's not a year ago that's a persistent problem that's still here now but you know how he got custody of the children how he convinced the court that wilma jean suffered from mental illness he turned wow he's the one

who was in a psychiatric hospital for two years or two weeks the year before not her unreal it's fucking ridiculous so right away as pretty much the moment his ink is dry on the divorce he marries another woman okay uh annie laurie langley he marries she's about to be frustrated oh for a long time so i got this dildo never mind you don't know how to use that either, you fucking useless asshole. Just leave the dildo and go about your business. How's that? No, leave it here. Leave it here.

Just put it back in the drawer. We'll use it next time. Treats him like Johnny Tyler. Oh, the madcap. You may go now. Leave the dildo. I said leave it. Leave it. So, yeah, after the after the marriage too he adopts her two sons

so now they got seven how lousy was that kid's those kids original father jesus christ so he works odd jobs off and on fired all the time theft all that kind of shit here not not doing great uh at all in life um in the 1980s annie laurie his wife's sister begins to live with them as well and her sister also witnessed his temper and physical and emotional abuse and all this and he'd beat the shit out of annie and everything else so in 1989 they end up moving back to palatka, Florida, where he was born and grew up. That's where the family moves. And then in 1992, Annie is diagnosed with very aggressive colon cancer. Oh, no.

And she dies by the end of 92. And he's in charge of seven kids. Well, I think they're older now. Okay. That was 17 years ago he adopted him so they got to be older now all these all of his kids have to be at least in their 20s by now every one of them right yeah yeah so that's good anyway there's no kids fast but that's really fast it was it went quick they didn't they got it right at the end here so now december of 1992, after this happened, old Redbird, old Redbird here, he's riding around in his pickup truck with his buddy, Wilford Ames.

Wilford. Old Wilford and Redbird. It's a pair right there. Willie and Billy. And he tells Willie, he's like, Willie, let me tell you something here. I ever tell you about this? I ever tell you about the time I killed a woman named Anita Stevens? Oh, boy boy you didn't

and ames was like uh no i i haven't um yeah i haven't at all um according to redbird's story the he uh he he and anita were planning to do some drugs together and went to a property he owned and uh somewhere between hastings and Palatka. When they got there, they had an argument about what? Money, drugs, and sex, of course. Like every rock band. It's normal. Yeah.

Like every rock band that's ever broken up, money, drugs, and sex. We had a real Motley Crue moment. You know how it is. It was a decade of decadence, everybody. That's how it works. Real Guns N' Roses night. Real slash in a hotel room kind of a deal but he's driving in his old pickup truck he's like an older guy just this guy we always put soundtracks to these people but as this goes on it really makes sense i feel like he's just got night moves on a loop he's just got bob seger in the backseat of my 60 chevy he beat a woman that's

his fantasy working on dildos without any clue working with dildos without any clue working on my dildo move i just saw him like like looking at the dildo i'm like looking up there anything nothing how's this thing nothing seems to be pushing back anything is it nothing i i'm i'm working it I don't know what you want from me. Look, if I let go, it just pops right back out. I don't know. It's not going to stay.

Okay, I'll just leave it and I'll go. Okay. I'll leave it and go. You do this. So Redbird tells Ames that after they have their money, drugs, and sex argument, he, quote, he hit Anita, quote, many times and choked her to make sure she was dead. Jesus God. He then took her to a pond, took her clothes off, and put her in the water. And he said to Ames, quote, everyone would just think she's another crack whore.

No one's ever going to try to find out what happened because it's drug related yeah holy now he told ames you better not ever tell anybody about this and ames said jesus of course not come on it's the scumbag code here obviously not so uh but then he saw a newspaper article about her disappearance and murder and as she said it began to weigh on his conscience and oh also he got arrested and he needed to get out of it so he's like i know who killed i know about a murder yeah and uh that's how he ended up telling on redbird he broke the code of scumbag corner he broke he broke crackhead corners code scumbag code of Crackhead Corner. It's very sad. The scumbag code is a, it's written in gold on Crackhead Corner. They won't ever steal that gold. It's because it's sacred.

He also said that he thought he should tell someone because, quote, Redbird is guilty and should have to pay. Bad man. Got to put that bird in a cage, fellas. I'm telling you what. The cage can air his things. He goes and he spills the whole beans to the cops. And they investigate the murders. They investigate what he was told.

And they couldn't find any proof of what he claimed. So they didn't do shit. This is 1992, mind you. They couldn't find proof. And they were like, I don't know. That guy's fucking crazy. Trying to get out of his charges. He's of his mind yeah crazy yeah crazy bill is different than fucking redbird or no he's not crazy bill's the other guy right ames is not right i'm saying

crazy bill could they crazy bill was just saying crazy shit in the pickup truck and yeah he's just talking just yeah ames is trying to save his own ass. You're just talking, you know. Then another witness comes forward. This is a few months after a woman named Danitha Sneed disappears. A waitress at a local fast food restaurant reports to detectives that she overheard a phone conversation in which she heard the man she knows as Redbird. Redbird told the person to whom he was speaking that Denetha was dead. And according to the waitress, Redbird said that Denetha had, quote, been knocked in the head and put in a pond near Old Maltry Road. So there you go. Um, now several weeks later, um, uh, detective Jeremy masters was on his lunch break and he ran across red bird at the same fast food restaurant in which red bird had made that

call. Okay. Runs across him and he asked red bird. I love how they didn't call him in for questioning. This waitress said this months go by. They just say that we'll get around to it. At some point. They wait till they have a chance meeting, both eating lunch at the same place, before he takes a bite of his egg salad sandwich and then goes, hey, let me ask you, Redbird, what about that Donita girl's disappearance?

Yeah. That's literally what happened. He repeated that she was dead and that he thought she'd been knocked in the head and put in a pond. He then described a pond as deep with lily pads all around it, but he was vague about the location. Okay. Okay. But he didn't like, they were like, that's what I heard anyway. I heard it's a deep pond with lily pads.

Where'd you hear that, by the way? Anybody in particular? You want to give us more names? It's just around crackhead corner. You know, gossip gets around. Another young woman here, a prostitute named Robin Holden here. She worked near the sites of where these women were disappearing. So that's why it's important of what she does.

the sites of where these women were disappearing. So that's why it's important of what she does. She, uh, you know, here's the, when someone, when girls disappear and there's guys that creep people out, these women tell each other,

right? They tell each other, Hey, watch out for this one. Watch out for this one. They literally do like they don't, you know, it's a,

it's a thing. So try not to get each other killed, you know? So it's fucking dangerous. She, uh, Robin Holden, she gave information that seemed to connect Redbird to the Denetha case as well.

So Denetha's need case. She said that near the time Denetha disappeared, that Robin Holden had seen Denetha in a car with an older white male who drove a red pickup truck. Okay. Like a Redbird. Yeah. She knew him as, quote, Redbird, a car with an older white male who drove a red pickup truck like a like a red bird yeah um she knew him as quote red bird and reported that other prostitutes had told her that he was violent and to stay away from him yeah there you go she said quote all the girls are afraid of him wow she also

claimed that he liked to take nude pictures of the women as well for a few extra bucks. That was part of his gig. So he's also known to use drugs and be frequently intoxicated, and that's another reason why the cops said they didn't take Ames, the guy he told in the pickup truck, they didn't take it seriously because they're like, we heard this guy's always fucked up. He's on heroin half the time. He's always drunk. Who knows what he's talking about? So, yeah, a check of of and then they checked his vehicle, what Redbird was driving.

And it wasn't the same one as those described by several informants as having been seen near there at the time of the women's murders. So they said it seemed probable that he was he wanted to display an inside knowledge of the murders to get attention and feel important. That's all it was. He heard some stuff, and he talked about it, and that's all. Fly free, Redbird. Do your thing. Who's investigating this? These are bad cops. This is a crack police force here, man.

He is doing a lot, the most, and they have no idea. When we watched the Richard Ramirez documentary where they talk to the detectives who were on that case and how difficult it was for them to put that all together. And they were like every little thing they were put. No, none of that bleeds over into this at all. This is a completely different thing. They're like, well, I'm sure he's just talking. I mean, you know, crackhead Connor and all. Meanwhile, Gil's like suspecting every single person.

He's not leaving until we catch this motherfucker. He's checking Frank out to make sure his fingerprints don't match up. So I don't know. Spit in this cup for me. Gil, come here. Hold on. Somebody grab that Coke can you just put down. Grab it.

Grab it. Grab it. Somebody replace his gun with another. Let's get some ballistics. We need to do something here. So St. John's County Detectives Frank Wellborn and Mary Levesque and Asheville Detective John Harrison conducted numerous interviews with other ladies from around this area and other women whom Lindsay was known to have been involved with. So both personally and professionally, I guess you could put it.

So, uh, one of the more, one of them is a woman named Sandra Sullivan. So now Sandra first met Billy D old red bird. Sandra meets red bird through red birds. Now deceased wife, Annie.

Okay. Which is very weird here. Um, Annie was still married what the okay now okay apparently when annie was still married to her first husband before um redbird before redbird her husband had gotten her husband annie's husband, had an affair with Sandra. Okay. Okay, the affair ended because Sandra got pregnant,

and then Annie's husband cut off their relationship, leaving Sandra to raise the child alone. You know, like a piece of shit. Like a complete asshole, yeah. So years later, Sandra Heard, we're talking, you know, almost 20 years later, 17 years later, Sandra Heard, we're talking almost 20 years later, 17 years later, Sandra Heard at Annie was sick with cancer and said that she felt bad and wanted to apologize for having an affair with her husband at the time, her ex-husband.

And it was at that time she met fucking Redbird. And to make up for it, I'll blow this one. To make up for it, I'll be unsatisfied by your new husband. How's that? The two of them began a relationship, Redbird and Sandra. Sandra described it as platonic. And Sandra told the detective that Lindsay was good to her and her kids. However, she was aware that he used to beat the shit out of Annie.

And he even admitted to Sandra that he used to be cruel to out of Annie and he even admitted to Sandra that he used to be cruel to his wife and beat her up and all sorts of shit like that. Sandra also noticed that he was taking Annie's prescription for morphine for her own use even though she had cancer. Wow. Yeah. Even though she had cancer that's why she's prescribed because she's in a great amount of pain.

He was taking it. He's robbing her. Unbelievable. I'll take that so I feel good. So an incident, another woman here in North Carolina named Chanel Barnes, she was standing on a corner of Broadway and Elizabeth Street in Asheville. This is kind of a high traffic area to pick up ladies. And Lindsay stopped and asked her if she's going out on dates tonight is what you're looking for a date yeah you're dating and they agreed on a price she got into

the car at some point here she made an effort to get some kind of pull a little con on him get some money out of him you know get a little extra bucks apparently it didn't work and as they were driving back toward you know the strip here where she drops him off back to the track, out of the blue, he, in his car, in his truck, picked up a baseball bat from behind the seat and began beating her about the head and face with a baseball bat. Almost killed her. And then, out of nowhere, he threw the bat down behind the seat again and apologized to her. Good Bill and bad Bill. Good Bill and bad Bill. And she was in the hospital for a few days.

When she was released from the hospital, she told the detectives that, quote, he needs mental help. Yeah. That's all. It's his problem. He's got a mental problem. Another thing that keeps coming up is he's impotent a lot his dick doesn't work a whole lot of the times with with these women that he pays for so several of these women reported that at times he's unable to get an erection he gets angry and um that's the sort of thing also willa jean also backed up

by the way when he said i couldn't satisfy her blah blah blah she told the cops that is true he didn't satisfy me at all that's absolutely he did she told him that now um another one here uh dale chambers who is a pimp slash drug dealer hell of a resume not kidding yeah that's his resume who would supply lindsey with ladies observed that lindsey came to his place for women three or four times a week and in addition to this he was also picking him up on the street in between wow lindsey is like he's got an appetite for disappointing people yeah he must really loves

to self-loathe that's all i I can imagine. He loves hating himself, man. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So they have him sitting there. He's remorseful and he's ready to confess and he does uh the first bit of information he comes forth with is he says in october 1995 let me tell you what happened and he does um and he's also going to talk about july 1995 as well and then go from there october 1995 the disappearance of a woman named Diana Richardson,

who was 48 years old. Yeah, he's throughout the end. First of all, he would adamantly say he was innocent. And then he'd say they'd say, you know, he'd say, I don't have a criminal record, quote, not so much as a parking ticket in Florida. He said, quote, I was brought up to do the right thing. If I made a mistake, I would generally own up to it. And they said that he was on the surface cooperative and all that sort of shit. And then he changed his mind here and he decided, OK, fine. So October 1995, he talks about what happened. And Diana Richardson, 48 years old, they end up searching a pond where he said that she may have been dumped.

She had agreed. She got in the car with him. It was 50 bucks for a blowjob was the agreed upon price here. That was the deal. That's where we were going. Not a bad deal at all. A blowjob at any price is a good deal you know i mean i'm sorry if someone's if someone wants to give you a blow job whatever you can give

them an exchange is wonderful i feel like because that's just a it's well earned and deserve it for sure so she was um she said sure let's you know do this right here. And he said that, no, it's going to be dangerous if we do it here. We can't do that. Let's take a ride. He's driving a Monte Carlo. Remember? We were talking about those very recently. He said he knew a good spot down the road here.

So they drove along. Diana began rubbing his dick. Yeah. OK. So his dick got hard. Oh, it worked. It worked. She's good at this.

He gets real excited and pulls the car into a nearby driveway, which was an area, a small driveway near the borrow pits off Holmes Boulevard. So he knows all these borrow pits, okay? He unzips his pants and was sitting on the front seat. She's in the passenger side fully clothed. She starts going down on him. And he claims that for some unknown reason she bit him hard in the dick. Okay. Yeah, I can do that.

He said pain shot through him. And he said that his trigger flared. And he punched her in the back of the head with his hand and he said then after that he began pounding on her head with increasingly force more forceful blows and uh he said he kept doing that until she completely stopped moving was unconscious so he said oh she's either dying or dead so he picks her up and we call little fireman's carry carried her down to the borrow pit and threw her into the water there you go um after that he drove away and went to his daughter's house in ocala to visit wow

yep that's where he was on the way to he figured he'd get a blowjob on the way, but things happen, I guess. After murdering a woman with his fists, he went to visit his daughter. Hi, honey. Shocking. A little sore. So a few months later here, October 12, 1995, or not a few months, a few weeks, Diana Richardson's 17-year-old son, she's got family and everything like that, reported her

missing to the sheriff's office said he hadn't heard from his mother in several days and had you know she he went to the all the tracks and everywhere she usually hangs out and asked about her but no one's seen her um so they put her on a missing persons list and uh no one reported having seen or heard from her since that date too so it just kind of got pushed off to the wayside. Yep. Now, he also talks about in June 1995, Cheryl Lucas was 31 years old. She got in the car with him at about 2 a.m. on the corner of Palmer and King Streets during a rainy night outside of the pick and save. Yikes.

Yeah. rainy night outside of the pick and save yikes yeah um they went about they went less than a block he claims before she grabbed some money from the dash and bailed out of the vehicle okay so she tried to try to grab the money and run that's what he claims she ran down the railroad tracks toward crackhead corner he said but he was able to catch up with her and as he put it quote crushed her skull with a pry bar whoa uh yeah her body was found several days later by boaters at the nearby boat ramp there so um i mean cheryl had been she was looking for i guess people one of the people on the corner said that she said i'm gonna make i'm gonna get him scam me some money over here that's what she said like i'm gonna find some

fucking money she said that uh she was seen getting into a 1978 firebird with one of her regular johns who was quoted as one of the other people on crackhead corner said quote a guy who looks like willie nelson yeah you know you know firebird and a firebird here man that's something that's florida for you willie nelson and a firebird should be on the florida flag i feel like it's a very florida man not willie nelson but a man who looks like willie nelson in a firebird a slightly off willie n Yeah. Fucking generic Willie Nelson. Dollar store Willie Nelson. Pick and save Willie.

Hydrox Willie. There he is. Go bot Willie Nelson. That same evening, others saw her getting in and out of cars at Crackhead Corner between 8 p.m. and 1 a.m. So she had a busy night. They said Cheryl was real wise. She knew the peak hours she knew the time of the night when she was mostly going to encounter the guy she was looking for

had the most money uh she said she wanted white guys driving expensive cars that's what she's looking for yeah she said that's where she can get them make the most money she said uh an intermittent drizzle been falling and it's two o'clock. She's standing out there. And I guess she was, like, calling. As people drove by, she'd be yelling, hold up, hold up. Like, she, like, needed help and then be like, you want a blowjob? So, which is a great sales technique, I guess. I mean, you know, once you're stopped, I guess.

So, anyway, kidding aside, she, one woman here who knew her said, you know, why don't you go home here? What the hell? And then she didn't. And then she saw she saw her get into a dark colored pickup truck with a man. She couldn't see the driver of the truck. And yeah, that was it. She said that she was trying to she was trying to make some money. She told her friend for some more drugs for the rest of the night. That's all that was it. She said that she was trying to, she was trying to make some money. She told her friend for some more drugs for the rest of the night. That's all she was doing. One more, one more score here. So, um, anyway, uh, yeah, she's, he said she took the money.

She tried to run away. She leaped from the vehicle. Um, you know, he chased her, beat her with a pry bar. He, uh, many times she fell unconscious. She bled all over the place. He continued to bludgeon her even after she was unconscious and bleeding all over the place, probably four or five times, he said. Looked around, made sure no one saw what happened, and it was raining in the middle of the night, so nobody was out there. So he backed his vehicle up to where she was laying, and he loaded her into the pickup truck, covered it with a tarp, and pulled right back onto the main street. Holy shit. That is fucking crazy.

Then he dumped her off the boat ramp there. He avoided the main thoroughfares, he said, while he was doing it, because he he was very familiar with the area he went down deserted back roads and side streets he said that he had to cross us1 the highway but there were only a few vehicles on the road and no police cars so he was a little he eased up on that a little bit and um yeah he said he went and dumped her off of uh the off of the thing that says he said there was and dumped her off of the thing. He said there was houses lining the road opposite the creek, too. So, like, anyone could have saw him doing this. He said he was looking around. But, I mean, you can't see someone looking out the window in their house.

You're not going to see that. See, it was a small little area with picnic tables and a park space. That's a little boat ramp area. That's where he said he just, he said he first tried to slide her body from the truck bed, pulling on her shorts, but he couldn't get it off. So he pulled,

he said he grasped her limbs and pulled her out of the body, pulled her out of the car, dumped her in, and she was laying face down when he left her. Nice. This will ruin somebody's day tomorrow.

Several days later, Brenda and Eddie Stewart pulled up to the ramp parking lot, preparing to launch their boat. They had their golden retriever, Pickle, with them. Oh, Pickle. Well, Pickle gets let out of the car and goes racing toward an area of tall weeds some 50 or so yards away. They followed her. Come back, Pickle. Oh, Pickle, come back. And they find the body of a woman face down in the water.

What do you smell, boy? Oh, no. Yeah. They hurried to the house that was nearest and called the police and all that sort of shit. So this was fucking terrible. Jesus Christ. He is, it's fucking awful so he um any any most of the women he kills too are black women as well he kills black women yeah i don't know what if that's his if that's i don't know it doesn't there's no reason

or an attraction it's you don't i think i think i think it's a sexual attraction. I don't know the psychology of it beyond that. Or if he thinks that I'm looking for women who will be societally disposable. These are where I know the prostitutes are and they happen to be black in this area where I know. I don't know if that was what it is. We don't know. It's like Jeffrey Dahmer. I don't know if it's like Jeffrey Dahmer where he said, I had a type and it didn't matter what color they were. That was my thing. We don't know it's like jeffrey dahmer i don't know if it's like jeffrey dahmer where he said i had a type and didn't matter what color they were that was my thing we don't know his exact his exact deal here now as he continues to to confess um you know this is when he tells the

cops that he has something wrong with him that caused him to do these things from time to time they're like well how many more times have you done this yeah uh what's up with that um so uh yeah also they said he's he's got like a lot of emotional detachment and things like that things that make them think that oh no he could have killed a lot of people right so he says well where do you want me to start and they said start at the beginning yeah start at the beginning. Yeah. Start at the beginning. He says, all right, how about October 1983? Okay. There's a young lady named Lisa Foley who's 24. She's a regular at the Tradewinds Lounge.

And five days after she disappeared, her body was discovered in a marshy area off the west end of Pope Road in St. Augustine Beach. He says, yikes, when we left the trade winds, we drove to the A Street ramp down to St. Augustine Beach. We had intercourse, and she wanted $300. I said $50 is all you're going to get. You won sixth there? Jesus Christ, bro. That is low.

You cheap son of a bitch. With a house that's within 5%, I believe, is considered not insulting. What are we talking about here? Did you come? 300 bucks seems reasonable. Jesus Christ. He said, quote, this started us fighting. I strangled her and took her body down to Pachetti Road and dumped her in a borrow pit down there.

Again, with the borrow pit. Then he said, November 29th 1988 anita louise stevens mcquague who's 27 years old at the time here and uh most of these are from crackhead corner which is the intersection of volusia and west king streets by the way if you're looking for crackhead corner that's where it is uh yeah enjoy so um yes yes, Anita is discovered. A county worker, Eugene Wells, discovers her. He's an employee of the Anastasia Mosquito Control District. Yikes.

He was collecting water samples from the barrow ponds on Fish Island and identifying potential mosquito breeding areas. Ew. Yeah, that's a gross job. You're getting bit a lot in that job. And the description sounds horrible. On Fish Island? Fish Island, it stinks. There's fucking shit breeding in the water.

As he was turning around by one of the ponds, he noticed something floating out of the water and stopped his truck and got out to check. He thought it was a department store mannequin at first, which we've heard countless times in these murders. You don't expect to see a body. Yeah, but how many times have you seen a department store? How many times has it been a department store mannequin?

Never. It's never a mannequin. It's always a body. But here's why your brain makes that connection. You've seen a lot more mannequins than dead bodies in your life. Yeah, but I've never seen them in water. No, if I see one in water, but you don't know if it's a you don't you think it's a prank at first you never think must be a dead person we do because we're sick but normal people nor we know what's out there this is episode 275 we understand but normal people might just be like that must be

a mannequin or something what is that is Is that? Oh, it's got hair. Hold on. Cover the kid's eyes. Get him back in the car. Put the kid back in the car. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. That's a hairy-ass mannequin leg.

Oh, no. That's not good. So as he's turning around, yeah, he thinks it's a store mannequin. He returns to his truck, puts on a pair of water boots. He's going to go investigate the store mannequin. He's going to go wash it. Oh, boy. He stepped into the edge of the pond to get a better look, his truck puts on a pair of water boots he's gonna go investigate the storm oh boy he stepped

into the edge of the pond to get a better look and then he realized that um what he had taken to be a mannequin was not a fucking mannequin so uh they said mr wells was securing the road protecting tracks he observed in the roadway he led us to a water-filled borrow pit and pointed out the body this is with the cops because he went back and got the cops. We observed a semi-nude body of a white female. She was near the southwest back wearing a light-colored shirt and tan-looking shoes.

The shirt appeared to have been lifted over the chest exposing her breasts. I observed several foot tracks in the area as well as a red cigarette lighter and two blue strings. The evidence was not molested and secured for

further evidence collection it's good they didn't molest it that's helpful ruin its dignity yeah you don't want to do that so they said that this area was a frequent place where people would dump debris so it would be difficult to determine what articles might be connected to the crime right it's like in the homicide book when they find somebody in like an abandoned row house they're like it's a shooting gallery people come and you know do drugs here all the time we have no idea what has to do with the murder what has to do with just people from six months ago uh they said they just found her white female between the ages of 25 and 30 partially cloth clothed, wearing a white sweatshirt with the design of boxing gloves

and the letters TKO on the front. Okay. So there's that. The sweatshirt and her underwire bra had been pulled up. Her pink corduroy sweatpants, which appeared to have semen stains on them, were found hanging from a bush

about 15 feet from where the body was found. What? Lab tests later failed to demonstrate that the sweatpants had semen stains, although they tested positive for the presence of blood. Gray sweatpants she was wearing had been pulled down around her sneakers. She's still wearing jewelry,

including a gold herringbone necklace, which had been pulled tight around her neck. You could see ligature marks there. And on her wrist, she had a blue blue like a friendship bracelet type of thing she had been beaten so badly that her eye socket was crushed and her jaw was fractured in two places oh by the way her body also had cigarette burns and bite marks in several places that were fresh torture yeah um she apparently by the way was a uh the night they picked that she was picked up was a very cold night it was like a unseasonably cold night it's november but it's florida so um yeah it was a really cold night she was looking

for a date late at night they said that appeared, other people there said he appeared in his later 40s or early 50s, which was good because they all thought of that as safer. The older the guy, the safer the guy, they think of. The young guys with all the energy are the ones they're worried about. So they came to 40 bucks for a straight up.

That's the agreement they came to, apparently. So she jumped in the passenger seat and drove out there. As they pulled away from the curb, she was looking at him, I guess. And, you know, she thought he looked familiar. Didn't know his name, but thought he looked real familiar. Had I been out with this guy before? What's going on here? We'll find out about that in a minute here.

So they drove. At one point, as they're driving he starts to grope her between her legs and she pushed him away and said pay me first and then then we can fucking whatever um so she said she had been telling her friends actually that a few weeks before a guy stiffed her and dumped her out like in the middle of nowhere awful kicked her out of the car so another guy like robbed her and so you know it happens all the time so she pointed to an unpaved dirt road off to the left off of uh after the route 302 bridge it was an area of fish island and they said police would come by once in a while but it's usually pretty safe here because just to sweep out the homeless people otherwise it's it's it's very safe. It's deserted. She said, pull over

here. And the way he put it is he said we were fighting outside the car. I picked up a three foot long piece of board, maybe about a one by six. I hit her several times on the upper portion of her body. After that, i carried her 15 feet to the pond and i threw her in and then i went home to my mom's at sylvan drive holy shit um wow i don't even know what's up with that so yeah that's fucking brutal um he fuck man he um he got cut up too in the palmetto fronds there that were there he was saying too um yeah she she her face was all broken up this was fucking brutal man this was absolutely brutally burned her with cigarettes he bit her neck and her inner thigh um he then this is another thing he did he

he's a he raped her with tree branches, Jimmy. Wow. Post-mortem. Oh, boy. Tree branches in every place possible. Oh, my. Yeah. Then he dragged her from the tree. Oh, by the way, tree limbs still protruding.

Oh, no. Then threw her into the water. So he watched her drift away, and then he came on he came on back so yeah she was only 27 years old she actually came from uh of like a prominent family really actually one of the sheriff's deputies said everyone around town knew and respected anita's family they said that she was just kind of the black sheep that the power of crack took her away and that's the one who's telling us is number one? That's the first one? That's the second one.

This is 83 was the first one. Oh, 83 was the first one. This is an 83. Yeah, this is 88. She was only born with one kidney, this Anita. Wow. So she had it kind of rough from the beginning. She got pregnant in the ninth grade, dropped out of school,

had a hastily arranged marriage that took place between her and a 19-year-old boatyard worker who was the father of the kid. Jesus fucking Christ. Oh, he was a drug addict and an alcoholic who would beat the shit out of her all the time. So, yeah, she moved back home with her parents, with the baby and all that sort of thing. And, yeah, she ended up getting into, she worked at a restaurant and she got into drugs working at a restaurant, which how many people do you know that that happened to? Multiple injuries, including hemorrhages of the larynx and hyoid on the right side, a blow to the left side of the head and eye, forceful blows to the mouth and nose with fractures of the anterior face, a blow to the back of the right thorax, perforation of the rectum with a sharp pointed wooden object, vaginal tears possibly caused by a foreign object, cigarette burn under the left chin and possible bite marks on the neck and right thigh.

Holy shit. Fucking horrific. Absolutely fucking horrific. It's fucking horrible. He fucking hates women. Oh, absolutely. Hates them. And this one, he wasn't a suspect at all. The main suspect was an ex-boyfriend named Jonathan Tremble who had dated Anita.

He called the sheriff's office saying that the picture in the paper appeared to be Anita Stevens. And they questioned her, questioned him. And he said, I liked her a lot, but I wasn't in love with her or anything like that. It was kind of like a friendship, you know. And they were like, really? And he said, quote, it's a very sad thing that had happened i just feel sorry for her mom and dad i mean it's sad when someone's killed and it's an accidental death or a car wreck that's one thing but when you see a beating that makes you really

sick i hope you guys get whoever did this we're gonna he sounds forever he sounds so guilty they're talking to every woman he's ever talked to but he's not guilty at all he absolutely is not guilty now when he ends up being taken to court lindsey uh her mother anita's mother uh mcquade here uh mildred mcquade sat in the courtroom and said quote i wanted to see him and when i did i think he had been in my home and sat on my couch that's why he looked familiar that's why he looked familiar she said she thinks she remembers seeing Lindsay at her house in April or May 1988 and that he had come to give her daughter a ride unbelievable so the FBI is now involved in this here um from the multiple murders here uh the FBI is involved because different things,

there's different linkages, and they're also linking them to things in other states, and they're trying to see if they're connected. This is post-Ted Bundy. They're really trying to work on this here. Next up is Connie Marie Terrell, 26 years old, June 10, 1989. Her nude body is discovered by fishermen as it was half-submerged in a borrow pond off Holmes Boulevard.

She'd been strangled with a rope, then shot in the head with a 22 caliber pistol. He said after he did it, quote, Then I drove back toward my mother's house. I threw the spent cartridge out toward the median of the road. I can't remember exactly what I did with her clothes, but I probably threw them in the San Sebastian Creek on my way home. Yeah, a couple of people unloading their boat from their truck. They launched it, pushed away from the shore, and they'd been in the water for three minutes when they saw something bright red or purple in the water that caught their attention, and they realized it was a female body lying on the back,

half in and half out of the water. She was naked except for a red T-shirt that had been pulled up. And that was her skin that they saw, the red and purple? Yeah, it was bloating in the water and all that sort of thing. So at 8.40 on the morning of June 11th, 89, a deputy Follin L. Christmas. Really? Follin L. Christmas is his name.

Follin Christmas. Follin. Follin. F-O-L-L-I-N. Follin Christmas. Hate it. Is it Follin maybe? Follin Christmas.

His middle initial's L. I'm assuming it's Lloyd Christmas, so we'll see. I hope so. It's Fallen Lloyd Christmas. He worked at the St. John Sheriff's Office. He was parked in the Lil' Champs lot. Lil' Champs? Lil' Champs?

I guess it's a store. A restaurant or something? A store? And he was approached by a white male. The male introduced himself as Robert Sykes and said that he wanted to speak with him about something very important he said the important thing is this fucking body i just found in this pond you probably want to find that um so the uh she like i said pinkish purple shirt is the only thing she's wearing um and uh with a it's like an eddie murphy buckwheat shirt oh really yeah you know like from snl like an snl merch buckwheat shirt yeah um that's what she's wearing in 88 and a

small yellow nylon rope was tied around her neck and uh she still had on several rings and a pair of earrings as well so uh the diagram showed they had all diagram they released to the public. The medical examiner here said that she died of the gunshot wound to the head. And this was confirmed when they found a flattened lead bullet in her brain. She suffered a hemorrhage of the larynx, suggesting that she had been strangled as well. He also noticed that she had abrasions of her right arm, traces of recent cocaine use and possible alcohol intoxication. He said that it was. Yeah. They go on from there.

Her friend. She is friends with Anita Stevens. Connie. They hang out together. Yeah. He was a regular with both of them. And, yeah, her same thing with Anita. Connie was hooked on

crack two letter to prostitution just like all these women none of them are like i'm gonna set out and i'm gonna go i'm gonna be the best girl on crackhead corner but i'm not gonna do drugs like that's not what anybody does you know here we go so um connie had taken off from a boyfriend's house on juneth, 89. She'd been drinking heavily all afternoon but wanted to go out and get some crack. According to the people at the house here. She informed one of the people that lived there that she was going to meet a guy so she could get money to go get crack. And Connie told this other woman, wait for me.

We'll party when I get back. Connie told this other woman wait for me we'll party when I get back so yeah she was like 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening he pulled up in a dark Ford LTD and Connie stepped inside said looking for a date how much

depends on what you want straight up 30 bucks they decide on deal so yeah the car she said yeah they said that when they looked Her over it wouldn't have thought That he had a lot of money the car the clothes Who he was so She jumped in the car

Told him where to drive Holmes Boulevard She said I know a spot where we won't be bothered They arrived she showed him where to pull The car over and all that kind of shit They climbed into the back seat She took off her pants and her underwear and she uh pulled the t-shirt kind of up kind of a deal here and he undid his pants and everything so um he was not he couldn't get couldn't get it up here so um yeah he ends up – apparently he says that she laughed at him.

So he begins beating her with his fists. She fought back, but she's about 105 pounds. What are you going to do? Yeah, and she's on her back too to begin with. So it's not a good position to start from. Evenly matched MMA fighters, you wouldn't want to start on your back. That's not the, with a guy already punching you. That's not the position you want to start from. And if you're a hundred pounds, you really don't want that.

So yeah, he's wrestling with her and he ended up grabbing a piece of rope that he had previously shaped into a noose from under his front seat and he jerked it around her neck and she struggled even more and um he's he kicked open the car door climbed out yanked her out with the rope he threw her to the ground and began to beat her unmercifully obviously um pulling the rope tighter and tighter and um jesus christ he's like he's punching her all over the place. And then he ended up shooting her in the head with a rifle after that with a 22. and lawn service worker had the unfortunate occurrence of walking down State Road 207 to the railroad tracks on his way home following a trail which led into Old Maltry Road where they'd go.

It's near the Flagler Hospital. He encountered a smell which he assumed came from a dead animal, but it became heavier and heavier as he walked. So he looked through the palmettos searching for the source yeah why are you searching for this source and he saw uh he saw a dead body covered with maggots so he ran to the hospital and told the first doctor he saw of the discovery because that was the closest building the doctor doctor called the sheriff's department. A detective comes to talk to him. He takes the detective back to the body. It is a human body. They interview this guy who found this body at the hospital here. And they were they were suspicious of him at first, of

course. But then he was stated to they interviewed the nurses who talked to him at the hospital and they said that he had never seen a dead body before other than his friend being shot under a bridge. That's what he said. Well, that's seeing a dead body before. So that's exactly seeing a dead body. He said that he later on, he claimed, too, that he was having nightmares and that, quote, her dead body came back to haunt him for like years. This poor bastard. Jesus Christ.

That's bad. LaShawna was on March 1st, 92, was on crackhead corner looking for a date here. And Lindsay pulled into the parking lot about 4.15 p.m. And her body was found 10 days later there. Jesus. So he pulled in with his car on crackhead corner she gets in now people saw her walking toward the vehicle they saw him they saw everything but um didn't matter she said um apparently he gave her the once over and she said looking for a date and he said maybe

and he said but uh you won't. I'm looking for a white woman. That's what he told her. So she apparently, you know, everybody said that she played it cool and said, I might could help you out sugar for the right part for the right price. So she played it like, hey, you know, I don't know what the fuck you think the difference is with all this shit, but I rock your world, too. So he he's he ended up, he had $30. And he says, how's $30? And he had three $10 bills in his hand. And she said that he didn't look like a big spender and $30 is probably about as much as she's going to get out of him is what everybody was thinking. And so she got in the car and they drove up the street.

And apparently she told him to make a turn, and as he slowed down, he claimed she snatched the money and made a grab for the door handle. I love how all of these stories start with, it wasn't just me being angry or me wanting to do this. I was just trying to have a simple business transaction and they all did something they bit me they robbed me they all did something that caused me to murder them horribly you know what i mean how many times do you get burned before you uh stop going yeah or stick with the the guy the drug dealer pimp or he goes to his house and he procures him i don't fucking know so or work on your game and find a woman that might want to have sex with you and be disappointed.

Or I don't know, jerk off like the rest of us. There you go. So before she could jump out, he slammed on the brakes and she kind of went forward into the dashboard because she didn't have a seatbelt on. He then grabbed her by the back of the neck and banged her head off the dashboard a few times while she was trying to get out of the car.

And, um, he's trying to push her like into the fucking, into like the main, not like in the floorboards of the car here. Um, he punches her a few times until she's pretty unconscious and then heads back down the street.

He said he wanted to have a place to just dump her out. But she, you know, she kept groaning and, you know, all this type of shit. And he ended up turning his car down another lane, continued down the South Dixie Highway. And he said he was getting angrier and angrier. And finally, he saw old farm, old dairy farm road. And he went down a little dirt road with a small distance. Uh, as soon as he break to stop,

he got out of the driver's seat, went around to the passenger seat, ripped her out of the car, uh, dragged her by her hair from the car. She is half unconscious and everything like that. He starts to beat her and kick her and all that sort of thing um yeah finally more kicking more kicking it's uh it's fucking horrible he just beats her to death with

his hands hauls the body toward one of the deeper puddles and dumps her over over into a big puddle in the borrow pit he watched it splash in there and uh he said it looked too exposed to him. So then he gathered some armfuls of underbrush to put on top of there, too, to cover her up. And then he said that, quote, she managed to kick the door open, but I hit her. I stopped the car and started hitting her more. I knocked her unconscious. She didn't mention her name, and I didn't know her. Fuck. That's what he said but he described uh everything else and uh man she was she was badly decomposed when they found her it was fucking brutal man um uh her elbows her she's

described as a young adult black female lying face up her elbows and knees were flexed and a burgundy shirt and undershirt had been pulled up over her collarbones. Much of the skin over her upper body was missing and there was considerable maggot infestation. He also stated that while driving around, he did not see or see anything suspicious except some other guy.

So there was that. Yeah, this is fucking horrible, man. Absolutely horrible. Is that four or five? Believe that is horrible man absolutely horrible is that four or five believe that is one two three four five i believe lord now um yeah it's it's jesus christ it's hard to get through hard to read the stuff and uh all that sort of thing she lashana had been living for two years with a guy named curtis glover who was a food service worker at Flagler College. They shared a home with another guy who worked at a local restaurant, and they were with her the

night she disappeared. And Glover was the one who reported her disappearance. And in the missing person's report, Glover said that he, quote, believes Streeter may have run into trouble and could even be dead. And he described her as all the things she was wearing and said that she was addicted to crack and would go out on the street to find, you know, guys to hook up with. So, um,

yeah, they ended up matching the, her unidentified body with this report. And we, and they end up, you know, matching the two together based on her clothing and things like that. They,

they sent a bulletin out. The police do requesting officers to the field to identify possible Johns at the height at this area. Especially, they said, look for possible suspects in a dark blue similar to a Chevette or a blue van or a CJ7 or similar model Jeep. These are very different cars you know any car or truck on the road so those are the women that were found yeah okay um by 1993 no one had given a shit anymore about any of this this was the 80s this was happening by 93 no one cared but that's when denitha remember denitha who redbird was overheard talking about on the phone? Right.

Denetha Laverne Sneed Hale, who was 32, she was reported missing. Her daughter, her mother reported her missing. I apologize. They said that she rode her bicycle to her mother's house and asked to borrow her mother's car. She returned the car and asked to borrow some money, so her mother gave her $3. She left on the bike, and that was that. I guess her neighbors said that they noticed

Danitha had not returned for several days, and they were friendly with her, and they thought that the parents should know in case she'd been missing her. She hasn't been home. I haven't seen her. Do you know where the fuck she is? So that's how it ended up happening.

They ended up, they went to check out her apartment. They found the kitchen light on, rode around. No one had seen her. So yeah, they made it a missing persons case. They also found out that she was addicted to crack and also had HIV as well. They found that out because they found, they ended up finding her records through the St. John's health department. And that's what they found out there.

So yeah, it's, she had a tough life there. He said, quote, I started planning to kill her when we got to the end of the paved road. I just stopped the truck and started beating her. I hit her with my fist about six or seven

times and she went out, completely unconscious. I went to the woods about 30 feet along the bank and threw her in the creek. Jesus Christ. So they said that he, there's other cases that he's a prime suspect in in Florida of a seventh woman,

but he hadn't been charged in the case they were working on the seventh case at the time because they had six at this point the prosecutors offered him a plea agreement what they offer him a plea agreement but he rejects the deal great taking it great okay we'll go no problem we'll go to trial with this. So they said the cases, each case will probably be tried separately. That way you have the best chance. That way they don't all get mixed up together. And maybe one of them comes up with death. Exactly.

They said, we feel clearly that from the indictments it's the right way to proceed. And they said that it could be years before all the cases are tried, which is bad. The prosecutor said time is our worst enemy in these type of things, obviously. So November 1998, they figure out that even though he confessed to Seven, they're not going to charge him for two of them. Two of the cases will not be charged against. charge him for two of them two of the cases will not be charged against uh the uh he can't they can't it was uh denise the sneed and diana richardson the bodies have never been found so even though he gave a full and detailed confession they never found the bodies they don't have any physical evidence so they're not going to just believe his confession so they have

nothing so they're not going to charge him with confession. So they have nothing. So they're not going to charge him with those. They figure they have enough in the others to not worry about those. Fingers crossed. Yeah. He proved no body, no crime at that point. I mean, they were like, even if you admit it, fuck it. Right. So the judge said in a ruling that Lindsay's confession was the only evidence against him.

Okay. All right. So, but if he's already, okay. him okay all right so but if he's already okay if he had no priors never did a thing and the only evidence against him was two confessions of murder you go maybe he didn't kill anybody but when you have already five you know he killed yeah because we're talking robberating everything that's at the scene that only the killer would know that's it what what do you do i mean yeah give him the other two four and four in florida one in north carolina and then two others in florida that he won't be charged for

okay um finally right before the trial starts he decides to take a plea deal oh decides you know what taking the plea you guys were right this is crazy i should really be taking a plea here um now why the fuck would the prosecutor take a plea here right accept it yeah why bodies confessions but with murder cases you never fucking know and the prosecutor said these kinds of cases at best they're risky for both sides if we were to fail right there it's entirely possible that he might end up on the street i don't want any additional killing to occur at the hands of this individual. So, yeah, they said that whatever happens in North Carolina won't affect his other cases here.

So July 1999, he is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Constance Marie Terrell, LaShauna Streeter, Denise the Sneed, Cheryl Lucas, and Diana Richardson. They ended up charging him with that too, actually. Because when they plea it, then they're like, oh, okay, we can... We can lump that in there now. We can't try him individually on it just with this thing, but if we can lump it, then fuck it, lump him. So the sentencing comes around.

The plea bargain, what it definitely does is get rid of the possibility of the death penalty. Obviously, yeah. Wipes that off the table here. And, wow, this is crazy. He is given, you ready for this, Jimmy? For all these murders, you, sir, may fuck off 30 years. Holy, what are we?

For each murder to be served concurrently. Okay. Wait, no. Yeah, 30 years total. What are we for each murder to be served concurrently okay wait no yeah 30 years total 30 years total he's due to be released from this point uh because this is what 99 july 99 he's being sentenced due to be released december 11 2025 at the age of 90 even 90 do you want this guy no that guy is the least the least suspected on on pervert row yeah he's gonna murder more he's standing in front of the school going you want to watch baseball you want to come in and watch baseball everyone's like he's 90 he's harmless next thing you know you're fucking got a nylon rope around your neck, and he's beating you half to death and burning you with cigarettes. He's going, Ryan Sandberg, right?

Come on, here, taste this. Yeah. Come on, over here. Yeah. Can you imagine that? No. To me, the only plea is, we won't kill you. That's the plea you're getting.

Yeah. You get life in prison. Are you fucking joking you want to get out too? We will feed you forever. That's it. What makes you think that we would want you on the street? Who would want you? You're useless to anybody.

You're 90. Even if you were the greatest guy in the world, you can't get a job. Fuck are you going to get? Even if you're the most upstanding person in the world, if you've got seven murder convictions and you're a rapist, who the fuck is going to hire you? Even Walmart greeters are 70. Yeah, even at 90. You're outaged by Walmart and everything else. You're all aged out of the market.

Too murdery, too. Just too much murder as well for Walmart, I believe. So the mother of one of the victims during sentencing asked the circuit judge, Robert K. Mathis, for a special condition in his sentencing, that all four women of the Florida that he was convicted for, pictures of the women be posted in his cell. Photos of the women. So he has to look at them. Can we maybe paint a mural in his cell photos of the women. So he has to look at them. Can we maybe paint a mural in his cell or something? The problem is the judge said he's not going to impose that stipulation.

He said, quote, I don't think Mr. Lindsay's psychological makeup is such that that would be a punishment to him. No, he'd jerk off to that. It's exactly right. He said that display he would consider a trophy case. Of course. That would be like, oh, here's all my victims. If you let him put the pictures on the wall, he'd do it. What, do you got a pair of panties you want him to hang in there, too?

Jesus Christ, people. Yeah, what else you got for him? Yeah, anything else? Do you get more personal effects of theirs? Jesus Christ. So they did, Mathis does, though, recommend that Lindsay serve his sentence, and by the way way he's 64 years old in the general population gen pop rather than be given a private cell wow so he is old

and a fucking awful terrible rapist who kills women so that is not a good guy to be in gen pop not if you're him if you're him um under the plea agreement he pleads guilty to six counts of second degree murder in the florida cases here and um he would receive receives a 30 year sentence they uh the da says quote this man is 62 years old and 30 years is a long time i think you've got to look at what the best interest of the state and the victims are. Okay. You want us to all kick his ass then? Yeah, when he gets out in 2025, we'll all whoop his ass. We'll all just stand at the gates and wait?

Just like, come on, pal. Come on out, buddy. Where are you? He comes out with a fucking cane, shaking. Oh, no. Just shaking, all bent over, going, huh? What's that now? And you come up and punch him right in the fucking ear. Drop his ass. Take that, old man. Yeah. And then jerk off on him. What do you think of that? He'd be so old and frail. He wouldn't be able to move fast.

We could all just piss on him and he'd just be like i'll show you how to use a dildo i'll show you how to use a dildo get over here old man come here motherfucker we could pee on him probably he wouldn't be able to get away what's happening it's so hot he turned slowly you can just change the angle of your piss i feel like yeah we could all pee on him i could probably take steps and chase him oh absolutely you could do that because there's a you could he can't run no i don't even think he'd know why you were mad at him anymore what no huh who it just got on me i'm already cold what's that now warm anymore i'm freezing okay will you let me back inside i don't know what these people i i don't want to be free i don't know what's happening

where am i this is freedom help the pee the peeing on me that man isn't impotent and he's he's gonna finish i know he is it's to be all over me. Oh, God. This guy. Fucking. So Herbert's in prison here. And so old Redbird ends up. We won't have to worry about it too much. In July of 99, he's sentenced to prison.

And then in 2001, he dies in prison. He got two years. Fucking dude did like two years in jail over this shit well then he did like actually two years from being caught so he did a grand total of like less than four years in jail for all of this he was diagnosed with cancer and died pretty much immediately in 2001 probably already had cancer when he went in yup uh by the way during all of this they were hoping that while he was in prison over the next 30 years, they'd be able to clear a shitload more cases. This isn't it for him.

They're about 95% positive he's killed many more women, not only in Florida, but also in Tennessee and Virginia as well. There's a trail of unsolved cases that really fit really well with what he does and where he was at the time, too. And they don't think that 83 is when he started no there's no way that's the beginning that is generally don't start serial killing at 53 right that's not yeah that's not when they start it's just not they start earlier and that first one was way too good, way too well done. Exactly. That's the other thing. He had plans. He knew he was going to dump the – he wasn't like, oh, shit, now what do I do? He knew right where to go, right what to do.

There's more. Way too many. He moved to Tennessee in 1970. Holy shit. And lived there for a couple of years, and they think there was people there so from 70 to 83 yeah for 13 years we're pretty sure he was killing women but we don't know who he killed and where they were imagine what's in this what was in this man's fucking brain when he died all of the disgusting fucking dark shit that's in there i hope it was words like i don't want to die like

this i hope that's all that was in there fuck man so his daughter robin um there there's a whole thing investigation discovery did a little thing on this and did a thing on her and she said it was very difficult for her to find out about and accept her father's crimes and who he was obviously as we've seen so many of these serial killers have these kids that come out later btk's kid is horrified by him absolutely well we said one loves him unconditionally and one hates his guts and won't talk to him so it's all right that's uh i'm sorry that's richard kuklinski that's right yeah yeah yeah that's it and dommer's brother changed his whole name yeah which i don't blame you you don't want to be dommer but not even just that but jeff picked his fucking name like he named his first name so he changed his first and his last name he's like

i'm not having that shit nothing to do with it um robin said that she thought that she was going to feel relief after his death you know that it was just that chapter closed but she said she only felt guilt about it she felt like she had the burden of the things that he had done that old red bird done and uh she said she was sorry about what he did to everybody and he she wished that all of everybody could have found out what happened to their family members that were murdered that god knows what he did um she did say that she started a family of her own before her father's arrest. But I don't know how that worked out.

We don't know if that was like your dad being a serial killer could really fuck everything up here. And he a woman that he murdered was named Robin, too. That's crazy. It's dude. It's so gross. This guy was such a disgusting fucking monster. This guy was like. And the other thing to the map, man, I'm I'm i'm like did he start is this a new thing yeah because the map was a that was that they don't have maps

of any of the other ones is this a new thing did he draw the map so he could go back to her so he'd start really remembering look at her fuck i mean who knows what he's going back to do but there's something going on there with the map and also also, we always know these guys progress. They don't just do the same thing over and over again. There's always a, now I do this. Now I learn this little trick that I like, and there's always something. Because they always want more of these guys. That's the thing.

He killed lots. Lots and lots. Lots. At minimum, right? I mean, like I said, he didn't start at 53 years old. No way. It just doesn't happen, or whatever it was. 50-something, 35, so 48 it would didn't start at 53 years old. No way. It just doesn't happen or whatever it was. 50 something, 35, so 48 it would be.

That's still too old to start. Jim, I'm 41. I would not even. Way too tired. Yeah. I would assume that somebody would overpower me and I'd look like an asshole. That's got to be a, you'd have to poop in the middle of it. You'd be like, oh, fuck, I had eggs today.

Fuck, never mind. Never mind. Sorry. I had sourdough toast and kicking my ass body was found covered in shit not their own strange men's pants and and shit so yeah that's it's a very there's more man i don't know how many but he started i mean it seems it seems to me like Tennessee seemed like the spot where he starts from what everybody says. And then from there, I mean, like I said, who knows, man? It could be everywhere. We don't know what the fuck he's doing. Hates them.

Oh, yeah. He absolutely hates women and doesn't seem to be that fine to find the guys either from what i understand the only male relationship i can find is a guy he rode in a truck with and threatened to kill if he told him about his rape murders i mean he really opened up to that guy though he did he wanted to be friends maybe maybe he's lonely i don't fucking know but perfect southern gentleman complete psychopath we don't know but we do know he's Redbird. That is what we do know. And that said, if there is something you know, tell us all about it. Tell the world about it.

Get on whatever app you're listening on, whatever platform. Give us five stars. It really does help a tremendous amount. We don't know why, but it helps drive you up the charts. And so thank you for doing that. Also, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMe murder dot com right now today where you can get tickets to all the upcoming virtual live shows or not virtual live shows. We did the virtual live already. The upcoming live shows in the future. Look at even if the thing is sold out.

Check back because people these are rescheduled shows. So they're allowed to return tickets. So as people get closer, they're like, oh, shit, I'm going to get my 50 bucks back for those two tickets or whatever. So they'll return them, and then maybe you'll get some tickets if you wanted to go see a show. Somebody in Madison just messaged and asked me if we should come to Madison. I was like, we're going to be in Milwaukee, man. Come there. It's like an hour and 10 minutes away.

It's right there. And so we bought tickets. Milwaukee's closer to you than Madison is to me. Right. And you. We live way far away. So you come to Madison. How's that?

How much time do you, how much time would you like us to spend in Wisconsin? Really? Honestly, like not that there's, not that there's anything wrong with Wisconsin, but we don't live there. We're not,

you know, it's enough. I'm just kidding. So I'm here. We're not from here. What do you want from me over here? I actually like Milwaukee. We haven't, we haven't we

haven't been to madison yet but we will right eventually we'll get there eventually yeah maybe i don't know so either way either way a lot of people come to our live shows from madison to milwaukee i noticed so whatever either way come to a live show see those get your tickets now also all sorts of new merchandise get your murder birds shirt we didn't add red bird to it thankfully we're gonna keep him off because he sucks get your murder bird shirt get your coloring books your small town murder coloring books out there are really a lot of fun nothing graphic or anything like that don't worry just some fun cartoony images yeah put some gray in there and check out you can color friendly and pocket robin and too bad Pickle couldn't be added to the group from this week.

They have birds and dogs. Shitloads of them. Fucking birds, dogs. There was Bowser and Pickle this week. Bowser and Pickle. Bowser, Pickle, Friendly. We got them all. I can't remember the other one, too. So check all that out. Get your merch. Get all of that at shutupandgivememurder.com.

Follow us on social media. We are at Murdersmall on Twitter, we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram get all of your updates and everything like that right there patreon.com slash crime in sports my god do you need to get on here this is where all the incredibly wild bonus stuff happens and um i'm telling you the bonus stuff is bonkers bat shit crazy this week you get for anybody five dollars or above you get access to everything crime and sports bonus small town murder bonus whole back catalog hundreds of episodes get it all there right now this week we're going to give you a crazy story for crime and sports about a guy

who showed up at a NASCAR race. No one knew who he was. Fake disqualifications. Ran in the race. Crashed like five fucking times. Took off after the race. No one knew who he was, where he came from. Never showed up again.

And then 40 years later, like two weeks ago, he pops up out of nowhere and he's like, I'm over here's what happened i'm here for the reunion it's fucking crazy story man it's so crazy we love a scammer and then for small town murder uh obviously we have uh nutty shit for small town murder we're going to talk about how video games and music sometimes get blamed for murders that happen in real life and some specific murders that were blamed on pop culture bullshit that doesn't make you murder. It just doesn't. If music makes you murder, you were really, your brain was weak to begin with.

I'm sorry. If music makes you murder, I would be historic. A lot of us would. Terrible, terrible shit. So that said, get get everything there patreon.com slash crime and sports and you'll get a shout out here as well as a matter of fact that shout out is going to come right about now jimmy i think you know well also another way to get a shout out go to paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com jimmy extra karma

it's beautiful and wonderful anybody who does this we do it damn well appreciate it I need to be hit with the names I need to feel better because this episode grossed me out yeah so as funny as some of the shit was it that's also gross and terrible and I feel terrible for all these fucking people and it's just bad so I need good

feelings hit me with the names of the people who would never ever ever do any of these terrible things to us and leave us in borrow pits hit me with them jimmy this week's executive producer jordan bennett patricia butler kicking the shit out of cancer keep going patty did you go by patty i don't know if you do or not that was a that was a disgusting assumption well well done patricia someone could call me jimmy i'm going to get mad at them. Like, I don't care. Alright. Sammy Weir, Greg Thomas, Tasha Messmer, Joey Morley, and Afrons Chingona

Real Estate. I think it's Afrons Chingona? Buy a house, everybody. From Afrons. Maybe The Frons. From Pom Frons Chingona. Buy them from him. Afrons. I don't know. Palisama Hollomans?

Doing a lot of assuming in this uh i don't know if it's who it is it may not be a person here jimmy a franz chingona might be some car i don't know it sounds like a nice watch it's a nice franz is that a franz chingona that's a nice one and our special tonight is the franz chingona oh is that sauteed or oh you do it in the pan okay yeah we'll take that then the white wine prawn sauce thank you guys so much truly other producers this week are corporal carl kershner tony tim tony simpson happy hour checking in in eugene oregon joey pepperoni nips. Peyton Meadows, James Marder, Thomas Smith, Deadhead Dan in Illinois, Julie Matt or Matei.

She had a baby. Congratulations, Julie. Jennifer Bonfiglio, Sophia Strickland running marathons for no goddamn reason. Good work. Hang on. For whatever reason you guys do those. Let's just fucking relax a little bit, huh? Why don't you sit down, Sophia? Take a break. Why don't you sit down a little bit, huh? Why don't you sit down, Sophia?

Take a break. Why don't you sit down and relax? What are you doing? That's too many miles. You got somewhere to be or what? Giuseppe Henrico Ferrara Tiberi. Tiberi? Yes.

Tiberi. That's a good one. Edward Stewart, Samantha Quigley. Happy birthday. Steve Schnell, Janice Hill, Frank the South African Bird Washer, Angela Ball. You're so great. Not us. You're so great. John Daniel, Brendan Ables, Matt Julesonet, Corey Ostrander,

Kelsey Blake. Nope, that's break. Griff with no last name. Earl Cunningham, Nathan Davis, Mariah Bruce, Robbie Coomer, Lauren Cutts, Uncle Grady, Janae Hood. Tanae Crystal, Scuffling Hillbilly, Patrick Fleming. Coomer. Lauren Cutts. Coots, maybe. Uncle Grady. Janae Hood. Wood? Wood.

Not Hood. Tanae Crystal. Scuffling Hillbilly Patrick Fleming. I imagine he fights. DJ Fetty. That's a man's name. DJ Fetty. Dustin Christman. Jennifer. Jennifer Leach. Rick Conlon. Jamie Hayes. Kristen with no last name. Shelton Leverett. Taylor Martin. Miss Root.

Tylene, I think. Alton with no last name. Damon Webb. Timett. Taylor Martin. Miss Root. Tylene, I think. Elton with no last name. Damon Webb. Tim Becker. Robert Walker. Samuel Lyon. Lori Villancourt. Valancourt.

Oh, Valancourt. I don't know. Kim Leverett. Debbie Spencer. Philip Blair. Zach Harris. Lance Day. Sarah Parker.

Alexa. Alexa Joseph. Danny Ruiz. Jesse Fetty. Conduit. Oh, Fedgie. Jess Fedgie. day sarah parker alexa alexa alexa joseph uh danny ruiz jesse oh fetty conduit oh veggie jess veggie conduit of veggies uh spencer spencer brown jerry bowling renette with no last name eliza eliza gallego that's it diane ellette uh melissa deep deeper pierre Melissa DiPieri. It's never going to happen. Garrett Wolverton. Julia X. Goat.

Dolly. Dragneses. Dragneses. Karen Creasy. Pedro Davila. Evan Pilkington. Ramey Beach. Norma Metzger.

Deja. Deja. Brian. Deja. No last name. Brian Rudinger. Common Gutter Drunk. Barbara Antley. Laura with no last name, Finn Laibecki, Eliza Matern, Jose Luis Mercado, Dylan Sponseller, Dana Hutchinson, Jade Lloyd, Jennifer Walters, Trisha Davis, Garrett Eade, Justin Eldridge, Neil Wykenoff. What does this say?

Weinkauf? I don't know. April Barnes. Sarah with no last name. Andrea Jones. Savannah Weller. Tim Purcell. Wendy Middleton.

Brad Phillips. Andrea Halley. Holly? Hale? Timothy Hodges. Kristen Matheson. And Nicole Ortiz. Hallie Haley.

Marie? Darius Johnson. Alex? Hmm. Holvalchik? Sherry Butler, Butcher, damn it, C. McDermott, Jennifer Martin, Brian, nope, Friday, Baldwin, Jenny Scooter, Erica Pauly, Evan Irwin, Stacey with no last name, Amanda Martica, Nicole Douglas, Tiara, nope, that's just Tara, Tara with no last name. Tara, Maureen Wilson, Don Moody, John Hackney, Mr. Tracy, Bobby Buño, Leah W., Kaylee Gardner, Julia Valado, Metta Somerville, Braden, Jenna McKenzie, Tyler Bell, Cindy Caldonaro, SC,

Tattooed Cactus, Cody Koester, Natasha Barker, Rob Dixon, Robert Hand, Robert Kolak, Todd Smith, Audra T, Carl with no last name, Leanne Heathman, Jennifer Page, Seth Miller, Kevin Wilmington, Olivia Fisher, Melissa Loveless, Jamie Byington, Amber Dagerstrom, Kaylin Yeagle, Lacey Wright, Paz Barnett, Dylan DeLazio, Megan Durr, Christian Isinger, Amy Box, Alside Bull What? Shelby Feller, Laura Colon. I think it's Colon. That's not colon. Dylan Murrell, Lindsay Lavelle, Wale, Wale Sole? Sole? Sole?

Sole? Sole? Sole? Sole? Sole? Sole? Sole? Sole?

Sole? Chiara Brown, Mark Turner, Stephanie and Craig, Vincent Dame, Jose with no last name, Ryan McGinley, The Popcorn Effect, Shannon Proctor, Logan Clark, Make Hancock, that's got to be Mike, that can't be Make, Daniel, Make Hancock, Make it, make it, Danielle Hudson, Lucas Sheets, Ellie Boyce, oh Ellie from Texas, Olivia Francis, Zach Sutton, Katie N, Matthew with no last name. Jennifer Hess. Colin Whitney.

Tucker with no last name. Matthew Finney. Cora Wolf. Anna Bloomquist. Heather Hunter. Casey Menthe. Ken Riegel. Samuel.

Samuel. Samuel. Samuel Marta. Julio Barcia. Justin. Yakinto. Yakinto. Kai with no last name.

Jackie Stanley. Lauren G. Desiree. Des, Derek Bro, Brian Mundorf, Vanessa Alicia, and Audrey. Audrey, Audrey going to be a Rudd, Matthew Lawrence, Phillip Kelly, Violi, Violi Carroll, Ellie Green, Caitlin Voss, Rebecca Yeager, RM, Felix, I almost called him physical, Hernandez, Felix Hernandez, Brian Rogelski, Ashley Powell, Ken Fritz, Maureen Keller, Paul C., Rhino, and The Jerk, and all of our patrons. You guys are unbelievable. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody for all that you do for us every single day and telling your friends to spreading it on social media, to everything that you do, anything.

We appreciate it. Thank you for giving two shits about us. Even one shit. Oh yeah. I'll take one. I'll take one shit. One each. There you go.

One shit a piece. We'll take double Amber heard us. one shit. One each. There you go. One shit a piece we'll take. Double Amber heard us. That's all. That's all. So that said, yes, thank you so much. If you want to get a hold of us, very easy to do that. Just go to the website, shutupandgivememurder.com.

There's links to our social media. Or just search Small Town Murder Podcast hosts. There's only two of us. And if you find others, let us know because they're full of shit. We'll go kick their goddamn asses. So that said, thank you so much two of us. And if you find others, let us know because they're full of shit. We'll go kick their goddamn asses. So that said, thank you so much for joining us. Keep coming back. Join us, obviously, on Friday for Small Town Murder Express. We will be there.

Of course, you know that. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.