Small Town Murder - #286 - A Most Evil Couple - Hattiesburg, Mississippi

Episode Date: June 2, 2022

This week, in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, a couple blows into town, on the run from the law, in another state. They move in with a cousin & his girlfriend, and things quickly begin to unravel between the pairs. Eventually, the only recourse one of the couples has is to take turns torturing the other two, for much longer than necessary. They even have strange sexual dalliances, among the dead, and dying. Then they do even worse. It's absolutely creepy, and awful. This is followed by going on the run, while making their own meth, and trying to hide out on a farm. This one is all crazy, all the time!Along the way, we find out that some people should be court ordered not to interact with each other, that chicken is in no way a sensual food, and that meth is, indeed, the Gatorade of murder!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, a couple on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, a couple on the run takes refuge with relatives but decides that it's much better to spend a couple of days committing brutal, torturous murders. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name

is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us you almost forgot i think there you're oh yeah what the hell's my name again trying to remember who i am who who am i it's a it's a deep question well then i have to be jimmy it must be jimmy i must be there you go so thank you so much for joining us we have an absolutely wild case for you today as we always do when we travel down to mississippi all those s's and p's get some murder and happen and we'll put it that way it's a wild place it's a lot so we'll get to that very quickly first of all thank you for everything your reviews whatever app you're listening on five stars is very helpful so please do that also check out shut up and give

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In addition, you're going to get access to not only small town murders bonus, but also crime and sports bonus. You get it all. You get it all. Anybody $5 or above, and you'll get a shout out at the end of the show. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. This week, the two episodes you're going to get, crime and sports episode, you're going to get the downfall of Bobby Knight, who was the quintessential American college basketball coach whose temper just went off the rails.

It always was going off the rails, but they finally held him accountable for it, and it's a pretty wild story of his downfall, the final year of it all. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about, first of all, we're going to base it around like an almost 30-year-old documentary. It's on HBO Max called Lock Up Rikers Island. We've talked about it before. We'll get into it with extreme detail, disgusting detail. And then we'll talk about some other prison stuff as well. It'll be nice and gross and all sorts of prison-y stuff. That's patreon.com slash crime and sports where you can get it all. And quickly, the disclaimer, it's a comedy show. It is. That's what we're doing here. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. The case is real.

We wish it wasn't. We honestly, we swear, we wish these things didn't happen. We do. But they happened and so we're gonna have to talk about them but what we do we go out of our way not to do here jimmy is we do not make fun of the victims yeah or the victims families why james because we're assholes but we're not scumbags and that's how that works so if that sounds good to you holy crap do we have a crazy story if not if you think true crime and comedy

should never go together I don't know maybe turn it off I don't know what the hell to tell you or listen and don't complain if you don't like it because you've been warned either one fuck it here we are let's do this Jimmy let's sit back clear the lungs and shout shut up

shut up and give me murder let's do this Jimmy let's go let's go on a trip shall we let's Shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay, let's go. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's get meandering. We were in New Mexico last week, as we know. We were.

This week, we're going to head back east, stay down south, though, and we're going to go to Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Now, Hattiesburg, it's down in southeastern mississippi it's actually very very close to pedal mississippi which is an episode we did four years ago or something in mississippi i think it was our like flower petal right it was just petal yeah but like yeah spelled like flower petal exactly so it was that was i want to say like our second mississippi episode it was in our first hundred episodes it was a long long, long time ago. This is about an hour 45 to Jackson, Mississippi. About an hour 15 over to Biloxi, Mississippi. If you want to get the blues, according to Matthew Broderick.

And then about an hour over to Losedale, Mississippi, which was our last Mississippi episode. Episode 215, The Creepy Corpse Snuggler, which was a... Loosedale. Loosedale, yeah. Wasn't it Loosedale? I don't know. L-U-C-E-D-A-L-E. Yeah, you were...

It's a refresher, mainly. You were definitely here for it. I'm real good at this part. This is in Forest County, like a forest. Area code 601, and the motto here is The hub city hub of what the hub of i don't know the hub of uh humidity i don't know what the there's a lot of humidity here i bet i

bet you can you could probably bottle that shit up i would imagine it's thick what did they what there was a lot of railroads through here that's why it was the? There was a lot of railroads through here. That's why it was the Humps. Is that right? Yeah, a lot of railroads crossed through here, so this was like the middle of it all, kind of the hub city of basically a bunch of railroads that were going other more interesting populous places. And then this was the hub of them all. So if you lived here, you could really get anywhere quickly. 1882, this town was founded. This is a post-Civil War town, actually. Is that right? Yeah, it's 1882, this town was founded. This is a post-Civil War town, actually. Is that right? Yeah, it's 1882.

It was founded by civil engineer William Hardy, and it was named for his wife, who was named Hattie. There you go. That's where you get the name from. It's nothing more complicated than that. It was incorporated about two years later. It had a population of about 400. They had a lot of lumber and railroad and you know all that kind of shit going on here successful so yeah it was dude there's a lot of

industry and because the railroad being that it was like a hub that went out to all these other places if you had things that needed to be shipped out it was easy to do it was less expensive so you could you know you could ship it to more places and And apparently there's a decent amount of jobs here there was at some point here. Now, in the 60s, it's too much to even get into because it would take its own episode. But this was a real hotbed of civil rights action in the 60s. There was a whole bunch of shit going on here. For the wrong reason? Oh, no, no, no bunch of shit going on here for the wrong reason or the oh no no bad stuff

going on here the the county registrar here who would register voters was the first one in the country to be like tried criminally on for the you know with the civil rights act for for violating for okay yeah allowing black people to vote yeah not allowing black people to vote that was a thing yeah at one point they had almost a hundred percent white registration and one percent black registration so that's well that doesn't seem accurate that's on purpose it feels like so it was a problem yeah so but it's like that that doesn't represent the cloth of the south not really especially when you hear the like the demographic numbers you're like whoa that should be wow what happened so um either way so there you go but're like, whoa, that should be, wow. What happened? Either way, so there you go.

But like I said, that would take two hours to talk about because there's so much that happened there. Just know some bad stuff happened here in the 1960s. Never mind 1860s. A few years ago. That's disappointing. So reviews of this town, four stars. Here's one. Quote, much better than most of mississippi

okay that's good that's good to know not a lot of recreational activities though almost no public transit or sidewalks are the biggest negatives no sidewalks how do you not have how do you know i mean i guess florida florida hates them too there's not a lot of like neighborhoods and such well you're just gonna get eaten by an alligator if you're walking on the sidewalk anyway. So you shouldn't be walking. That's for your safety. Go inside or get in a screened area. You know how Florida is.

You don't actually drive a vehicle. You don't actually enjoy outdoors with your feet on the grass. That's not how it works. You're either screened in or in a vehicle. That's how it works. You're either screened in or in a vehicle. That's how Florida works. I moved down there for the weather so I can never be outside. Florida has that fat blade grass, though, that feels fantastic to walk on. It's like almost a banana tree beneath your feet.

Yeah. It's awesome. But it's thick, too. Little gators hide in there. They're going to bite you. Watch out. I'm telling you. It's all gators, Jimmy.

Little baby gators. Some of those blades of grass aren't even blades of grass. They're just baby gators hiding there they're gonna bite you watch out i'm telling you you can't it's all gators jimmy little baby gates some some of those blades of grass aren't even blades of grass they're just baby gators they're just tiny gators that look like they they know how to camouflage themselves so they could bite you gator tails they yeah they hide with their face in the ground and then they come up and bite you pow it's florida yeah i don't make the rules here so uh no sidewalks three stars the store was clean well that's good i'm glad to thank god the store they know there's more than one store here yeah the store was clean food was hot service spelled s-u-r-v-i-s-e the less common spelling of service that's not it at all servise like supervise it looks more like supervise and they just forgot the per uh was fast and friendly manager needs

to be more friendly okay i don't know what store that is they this is on not a like this isn't yelp this is right this is the website this is from niche.com that has reviews of towns. So you went to this and didn't mention what restaurant you were talking about. You just, the store. Okay. There must be one store then, yes? No. Hattiesburg's pretty big, right?

It's a pretty big town, yeah. It's actually a little bigger than most of our towns. Here's two stars. As I said before, I don't know who this is but apparently they've been speaking out in the past it was a pretty bad and run-down neighborhood however the cost of living was low and it was a good location okay well not if it was a run-down neighborhood that's not a good location and then here's one star this person does not not a big fan of hattiesburg yeah they hate it this sounds sounds like I wrote it for fucking Cleveland or Omaha.

One star, nuisance of a city. That's amazing. Nuisance. Every neighbor you will have will smoke weed and cigs in unit and won't go outside. Well, you live in an apartment complex. If you live in an apartment complex, because I've an apartment complex because i've lived in plenty of them um you can't expect comfort you just can't you have to expect to deal with horrible shit until you can get out of there that's an apartment complex there is not 500 units of everybody that

has the same lifestyle no so that's what you deal with remember my last one in phoenix when the guys downstairs would like sweat down 40 pounds of onions every night? You'd have to shut the windows because there'd be this waft of onion. They were just sweating down onions, and then there was fucking guys blowing each other right outside my window. There was a lot going on. You deal with it. Mine, I had people upstairs that fucked once a week and sounded like the ghosts in Beetlejuice. It was So annoying.

Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. What about I had a next door neighbor that used to just walk. That's how they fucked. This dude used to walk around the complex in his robe. Remember that? In like a short, like it was like his girlfriend's robe and he had like this man bun and I'd

be like, you don't strut around like that. That's not yours. Balls dangling out the bottom of the thing it's fucking disgusting apartment complex life is brutal it's brutal it's not easy so they won't go outside all you smell is weed in public no matter what time loud reckless driving with chargers with chargers and race cars and bikes on the road there's race cars here okay it sounded better every chargers and race cars and bikes on the road. There's race cars here? Okay, this is sounding better every minute. Weeding race cars.

Weeding race cars. Maybe I misjudged Hattiesburg. You know, I was a little too quick to the punch there. Cops absolutely do nothing to improve the city, and the police dispatchers are rude and downplay incidents. Oh, no. Not a good place to live. Go to pedal only five minutes away. So there you go.

Population here, 45,806 in Hattiesburg. That's a lot. So there's more than one store, definitely. There is 53% females. A lot of females here. That's a lot. There's a college involved here, too. That's why college enrollment is way more female than male generally.

Got it. So median age here, 28.7, which can be explained a lot by colleges. The 25 to 34 is like almost 18% of the people, which is way more than it usually is. Really? So, yeah, 34% are single with children. It's normally 10. Oh. So, yeah, that's a... 34%.

Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot. They're putting out around here. I guess so, yeah. Race of this town, 40.5% white, 53.5% black, 1% Asian, and, yeah, that's about all you got there. So, you got two or more races of half the half the population votes huh james that's what i mean of more than half the population the rest not interested in the 60s you know what just got other concerns right now real

busy oh three percent hispanic as well religion. Yeah, you know this is going to be heavy here. 69% of people here are religious. It's usually 50-50. And 31% of the people here are Baptists. As we know, the Baptists are the Catholics of the South. The deep South. The deep South. Deep South. You have to say it like that when you when you say deep south around here

cut to barry white deep south so 0.2 percent jewish which is um less than or more than i expected honestly shockingly high yeah shockingly high last election 43.5 voted democrat 54.6 republican two percent independent uh the unemployment rate here a little bit higher than normal but not anything to be concerned about the problem is the median household income is about half of the where it is of the rest of the country 31 it is 27 827 dollars holy shit it's about 54 in the rest of the country, so just about half of the normal median household income. That's a problem. Oh, my God. Not so much if you're super young.

That's the thing. If you're 22 and you're making that, that's fine, but if you're 36 and you have three kids, that's another issue. That's a problem. Or if you're 20 and in college, that's fantastic. Oh, you're doing great. 35 and two kids, this is fucked. Now you've got an issue. Cost of living, $100 is overall average, regular.

Here it is $83. The housing is the low one. It's $65. Median home cost, $152,200. So it is cheap. Who gives a shit? But there's no money. If you've got $27,000, you can't buy it anyway.

Well, we have for you, if we've convinced you, you damn it that hattiesburg is the place for you we have for you the hattiesburg mississippi real estate report all right your average two-bedroom rental here is about 900 bucks so that's you know cheaper than the national average, but not like the Tobiah house. That's super cheap. Here's a two-bedroom, one-bath, 2,172-square-foot shithole. It's a shithole. 2,000 square feet of nothing? Of dump.

There's water damage. The ceiling's falling down. There's, like, there's shit. There's, like, wood that's, like, put, put like patched on things to like hold shit up it looks like if you took the patches off the the shit would collapse it's like on pillars it's not good man is it like in the cartoons like two pieces of two by fours over each other yeah yeah there's one nail in the middle and you could spin it if you want i think it's like that. One of those. There's shit. It also looks like a hoarder lived here, too.

There's shit everywhere. There's a mini fridge just sitting there that you just know stinks inside. It's the ceiling all over the floor. Oh, no. Moldy. Looks a little on the moldy side. If there's no dehumidifier running all the time in Mississippi, you're in trouble. $40,000 for that, though.

So you could raise it. $2,000 square foot of house for $40,000. Raise it and use the foundation. That's all I can say. Here's a one-bedroom, one-bath, 700-square-foot house. It's little. Little tiny house. It's an actual house?

It's a little box. Little rectangular box. Tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny tiny tiny just like a you want to live in an almost you know like a tiny house like it could be on hgtv this is the one 90 000 bucks for this tiny little thing at least it's not falling apart then here's a five bedroom four bath 4150 square foot doing well it's an old plantation mansion-looking place. It's one of those. It looks like an old southern, you know, like a governor lives there or some shit.

It's so haunted. Jimmy. Jimmy, I know you're not a ghost guy, but you could, I mean, for fuck's sake, it's creepy. Through pictures, there's... Just looking at it. You feel spirits and shit. It's not good. It's a little weird. It's just kind of a weird... It's a looking at it. You feel spirits and shit. It's not good. It's a little weird.

It's just kind of a weird. It's a little farty. Need some updating. But, you know, overall, it could be brought up to something very nice, I guess. Four thousand square feet. It's got it's big. Two hundred ninety five thousand bucks for that. So four thousand square forty one hundred square foot of old.

Yeah. So I don't know if there's like structural issues or electrical problems or anything like that. But either way, things to do here. Okay. Here we go. There's a couple of things. First of all, Hub Fest. Oh, baby.

Hub Fest. They're very excited to downtown Hattiesburg for a day of food, music, arts, and fun. Music, arts, and fun. They're very excited to have, who just won the American Country Music Award Song of the Year and New Female Artist of the Year, headliner Lainey Wilson. They got her. I don't know who that is. I don't know her. But they got her. But Lainey will be on the main stage at 3.30 p.m.

I love when you say Lainey. Lainey. Oh, Lainey. i love when you say laney laney oh laney you clearly hate her just based on her name and her profession i don't know anything about laney but i don't want to watch her in the hot fucking mississippi sun at 3 30 p.m at all i just don't want to do it when is this i'm not interested or is it in late march which is in late March, which is, it's still, what, 98 degrees, 4,000% humidity in southern Mississippi by then. It's hot.

It's always hot there, I feel like. Sing, Laney, sing. Come on, Laney, make this worthwhile. So all sorts of people. Elsie is another band. I don't know what that is. Elsie. Sean Stamali.

Oh, this feels so good. This is the first time I don't recognize him. I don't either. Eleni Wilson. And then I found there's other ones here, other acts we have. What do we have here? Eric Woods. Okay.

Knicks Icemen. I don't know if that's a band or just some company that's going to bring ice to everybody. The Icemen come at 11.45. They're playing at 11.45 a.m., which is a bad sign. That's when they have to re-ice down the kegs. I think that's what it is. The Icemen are coming. Here they are.

The J5s. I don't know what the fuck that is. Ty Trahearn. Whoa, that sounds really hickey. What else we got? Sizzletooth. Sizzletooth. It's the only one that's left it sounds like sizzle tooth sounds like random words that they put together just like a noun and you know they're just like one boom sizzle tooth cool like if you were born pick your day and that's your porn name or some shit like some dumb fucking meme that's what it is there sizzle tooth is my band name i love that it's

singular one not sizzle teeth pretty it's pretty awesome that it's not sizzle teeth only one sizzle tooth um at 2 p.m cosmic gray is playingvy. I'm sorry, which is even weirder. Cosmic Gravy. Then Zach Koch. Koch. Koch. K-O-C-H. Koch. Koch.

Either way. Then what else do we have? J.P. Williams. Finally, the Coal Hill Trio. That sounds good. And there's going to be Kid Zones. Don't forget about that. They're going to have obstacle courses, jump houses, bungee jumps and more. So there's all that set to both kinds of music, James, country and Western country and Western and Southern and also some bluegrass also mixed in there with just some good old fashioned hillbilly banjo mixed in. It's going to be a real diverse day of music. It's going to be great.

Perfect. Right? All the diversity. It's going to be great. Any kind of music you want to hear, as long as there's a banjo and a fiddle involved in it, you're going to hear it. All kinds of singing yodeling everything from from yodeling to country crooning it's gonna be got it all everything here then there's also a dolly parton impersonation contest that's gonna take place that's good and then follow that the

headline is other night is the kenny ro impersonation contest. So that's the one they really get into. Then finally, they all have nine o'clock. They round out the evening with a worshipful prayer to Dale Earnhardt. And then it's over. On a toast to George and we move on. And we move the fuck on holy fuck man uh also there is the renaissance festival that takes place at the hattiesburg zoo so you have ren fair and oh my god at the same time weather with those smells and then people are going to put all the all those clothes on

and up the stink volume the smell of the animal shit is the only thing that could cover the stink of these people running around in eight layers of clothes in fucking hattiesburg of 1600s clothes yeah yeah it's not their fault anybody would stink wearing it but it's going to be rough so you got to mix in the smell of elephant shit and it really holy really tampers it down a little spinal tap turning the crank up to 11, right? On the smell. Jesus. We have also there's going to be candle making, butter churning. This is our annual conservation quest to knighthood includes candle making, butter churning, horseshoe tossing, archery shooting, and apothecary training as well.

Okay. Make some perfumes and shit. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, of course, the property crime is about double the national average. Oh. Double. A lot.

Yeah, there's some property crime going on. Although violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, just below the national average. Oh. I don't know. Crime into a certain level.

Yeah, maybe there's some tourism. Whenever there's anybody visiting they're always more willing to piss in the streets and break things and steal shit because they don't live there maybe that's what it is i'm not sure or also if there's college kids around there yeah that's when you're going to get your you know drinking in the streets and things like that buffoonery that counts under property crime so um okay let's that said let's talk about a murder i think what do you say here let's uh let's do this okay well this is uh boy what a crazy one let's go back in time jimmy shall we we're going back not too far not too far this is you can break things into like uh you know, there's like World War II times.

And then like from like 19, from after World War II to like the late 60s to the mid 60s is like that's black and white times. You know what I mean? There's old times. That's old times pre-war. And then post-World War II is black and white times and hippie time, disco time. You know, this is into text messaging time we're past internet time and now 2004 we're into there's actual text messaging and like you know this is this is normal there's my space at this point even social media exists in this in this day and age so let's

talk about a couple people who have no use for any of that shit okay let's talk about first of all uh lisa joe chamberlain yeah joe is jo by the way lisa joe lisa joe's middle name is it lisa joe or just joe it's kelly joe kelly joe there you go there you go so she's 31 years old lisa joe chamberlain and um she has three children two sons and a daughter all by three different men um over time here um she her life is a disaster let's just put it that way yeah she's made some bad bad bad choices in her life and uh not good the father of her second child was super, super abusive as well, which is perfect. She this is fucking interesting. She met her current boyfriend, whose name is Roger Lee Gillett. We'll talk about him in a minute and all of his.

He's another fucking prize. She met him through her, the father of her second child the abusive one he hooked her up with another with a friend no uh he'd been in jail with him they were in jail together oh and they met somehow on a visit you know how that is you catch somebody's eye across the visiting room and you're like wow i wonder if he stabbed somebody in the face sexy and you have to get with them you know how it is yeah if he's half as abusive as the guy i'm with this is going to be hot like no you shouldn't think like that this is wrong lizard skin on that guy fuck this is a love after lockup episode in the making here so she ends up

with uh with gillett she i guess maybe he got out first i don't know either way race yeah yeah race yeah oh fuck i'm gonna hook up with your girlfriend no shaking the bars this relationship is obviously a mess because he's a mess and she's a mess and by the way there's a bunch of meth involved in their relationship also they both they both shoot meth so that's a problem shooting oh they're shooting meth no this is full-blown they're making it shooting it they are this is full blown. They're making it, shooting it. They are. This is, wait till you hear about these two.

My God, it is just like the, they're like the prince and princess of scum is what they are. The king and queen. It's not even the prince and princess. King and queen of just fucking scumbag couples. How do you, I don't, it's beyond me. I get it you you're so far gone that you can only that shooting it has to it gets it in there faster but fuck man oh yeah far gone oh that far gone they once you're shooting meth you have wow your bets are off man you're it's it's

i don't even know yeah i don't know how you're going to get off of that. Like, that's good luck. That's hard. That's crazy. So anyway, they have a huge stormy relationship. They fight like cats and dogs verbally, physically. They attack each other. They're fucking. It's a mess. They both come from terrible backgrounds, and they're both violent. They're both, you know, they have tempers.

At one point, he tried to drown her. Jesus. Are all the babies in the house for this? No. At one point, he tried to drown her. Jesus. Are all the babies in the house for this? No, her children have long been taken away from her. Her oldest kid is 15 or something, and they've all been long taken away from her. She has no... They're all wards of the state.

Being taken care of by relatives. She's shooting meth. She has no time to... Thank God. No time to drop the kids off at school here. Well, Mommy's shooting meth. She has no time to. Thank God. No time to drop the kids off at school here. Well, mommy's shooting meth since fucking four o'clock yesterday afternoon. I can't drop you off. Yeah.

Oh, hold on. I'm with my scumbag boyfriend who just tried to drown me. Mommy's hair is wet. I don't want to go out and get pneumonia. Like, this is crazy. Run away. And this is what I mean. Like, I don't even know what the solution is at this point because you're shooting meth.

Like, once you're shooting meth, you're in dope sick love at this point. So I don't know how you. It's so far in the shitter. How do you even turn that around? How do you begin to turn that around? You have to leave and be homeless, I guess. How do you even ask for help? It's a plane and a full nosedive, you know.

And it's been nosediving for 20,000 feet i don't know if you can pull out of it at this point you're gonna hit the mountain no matter what now yeah you've been hearing the alarm telling you to to level off what are you doing yeah no good so uh but they stayed together somehow um lisa has she's like i said she's got all sorts of problems from her childhood all the way through now she started drinking when she's, like I said, she's got all sorts of problems from her childhood all the way through now. She started drinking when she's about 12 years old, heavily, not just, you know, experimenting. Getting hammered.

Well, you know she was doing it heavily because by 13, she was using meth on a regular basis. Holy shit. 13 using meth on a regular basis. Regular. Regular basis. Regular basis. Oh, boy. And that was, according to her, that was just to get out of the house because it was such a terrible environment she was in. Can you imagine?

I mean, Jesus, that's awful for a kid. If you have to do meth to get away from your scary parents, that means your parents suck worse than meth. That's rough. It's a rough environment. meth. That's rough. It's a rough environment. She said it was easier to come back to the house and see what was going on there when she was high on meth. That would make everything a little more easier to cope with. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on W Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by

Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts understandable i guess what is that situation a lot of violence a lot of a lot of bad stuff going on between her stomach hurts already between mother and stepfather and other and she's got her step brothers it's a it's a real fucking mess there um she from the time she's 13 all the way till you know 2004 right now she's been doing meth so it's been from eighth grade till now it's been all meth all the time and progressively worse to the point of

shooting it all the time now so um she's also at one point diagnosed with uh borderline personality disorder and one of her one of her uh jail stints because she's arrested constantly is the other issue with her she's always got meth yeah she when you're always have drugs on you and you're known wherever you are in that town as one of the oh that's one of the that's one of the methies you're getting fucking you're getting rolled all the time i I mean, it's one of those deals. So she has that, which is which is rough. And she's got a lot of problems. Her her psychiatrist at one point says this, quote, I guess the way I would sum it up is as an accumulative effect and growing mental and emotional disturbance.

This isn't a very clinical term, but I'll just say it this way and i think we'll all understand it lisa was a psychological mess yeah that's her fucked up that's her doctor he's if there's so much that he's like i can't i don't even know how to put like a really put a tail on this i'm just gonna fucking tell you in layman's terms she's a mess her head's a fucking like it's too much to even put into medical terms i'd have to get like three different books out it's just too much you know you know you describe your friend as a mess yeah she's not a mess i'll show you a mess this is a mess it's got track marks a mess usually yeah and it had grown starting in her early childhood with things that she couldn't help

but then choices that she made over time and not having the tools having never had role models or support system and having not taken some of the opportunities that she did have so which is what people do i mean yeah she fucked up a lot uh when she got uh later on in her life uh she was her life has spun out of control, he says. So, by the way, she's never divorced from her first husband also. What? This is from 15 fucking years ago, but she's never. They're still legally married, so that's a weird thing.

It is expensive. It is expensive, yeah. And if you want to buy meth to shoot in your arm, it's more difficult. The court, according to the family court, she abandoned her three children there. Her oldest boy was 15 years old in 2004. She has been arrested up until 2004 here. She's been arrested 15 times for all sorts of various things ranging. Arrested 15 times.

Arrested 15 times. Yeah yeah not had 15 charges because that could come from one arrest she's been arrested 15 different times but also not not uh just had 15 times interactions with the police oh no no arrested yeah they put the cuffs on her everything from you know driving under the influence to drugs to assaults to disorderly conducts to you name it she's been arrested for it yeah she's doing it so uh she was living in oregon which is where she's from she grew up in oregon and grew up there her whole life and that's where in jail through through her at the jail through her second child's father she met a a real prize named Roger Lee Gillett, who in early 2004 is 29 years old, about to turn 30.

And if you want to say one thing, okay, you can put different components together. You know what I mean? Like if you have something that's combustible, but then you put it with something that's not, it's not combustible. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know when you make combustible but then you put it with something that's not, it's not combustible. You know what I'm saying? Like you know when you make a volcano when you're a kid in a science class?

I never did that because I'm sure I would have spaced it. But when they do that, it was because they mixed, I don't know, what the fuck is like vinegar and baking powder or some shit? Baking soda. Baking soda. I don't know. See, I never did this stuff. So if you mix those together, I didn't graduate high school. I'm a moron i apologize so if you mix those things together and they explode but if you put baking

soda in there and you put you know fucking sugar on top of it nothing happens you know what i mean you put vinegar into uh into salt nothing happens nothing happens that's what i'm saying so there's a lot of combinations that don't cause an immediate fucking lava explosion into the air right right then there's things that really really don't go together and they're very combustible and that would describe lisa joe chamberlain and roger lee gillett perfectly these are two people that never needed to meet each other ever never ever ever ever this is i mean if we knew ahead of time we should have a court order to keep them on separate sides of the country. So they'll never, ever cross each other's paths.

Yeah. Like, it's that bad. He, Jesus, this guy's a fucking mess. He's from Kansas originally. He, the most we know about him in his early life is that he has one relative who quote thinks he attended college at some point i don't know i think that's a quote from her it thinks he attended not didn't graduate or attended college at some point he went one day to look it over we don't know but he attended it at one point at some point up a couple of flyers from the campus we don't know why he was there went down tried to talk to girls you know how it goes

didn't quite work out i ever stepped foot on a campus was to fuck with the electricity there yeah no he's uh he attended yeah i love that i have attended college too i've never went to a class but i've attended i've been to a college before yeah shit so they like i said met in oregon they lived together in oregon for a you know a little while a few months yeah and then they decide let's move on let's get out of here and we're moving to russell kansas yeah yeah russell kansas this is heard of it me neither that's and we do this and we never heard of it so that's that's telling you something so they moved to russell kansas where they gillett a bunch of his real relatives live there because he's from there so they can stay with some of his relatives and oh boy this is these what a sweet couple this is you

really you really root for a couple of kids like this don't you just arms all tied off to what sitting around i don't know drive into the ocean yeah i don't know i don't know what i'm rooting for here on a couple of things i'm rooting for something i'm rooting for them to drive opposite directions of each other to different hospitals to fix themselves because this is a mess to go uh try to train wild gators that would be this guy seems like the perfect candidate for that by the way roger lee gillett crocodile trainer seems like our gator trainer seems like the perfect job for him really does he oh by the way him to rip roar and meth addiction here this guy oh i mean fucking

absolutely out of control meth addiction to this guy too so yeah that's again adds to the the fitness for him to wrestle yeah fucking gators i believe some real mystique happening yeah he comes out like i said he comes out arm tied off needle hanging out where are them gators at and you you just look you point your kids in that direction you go watch kids he's gonna wrestle Like I said, he comes out arm tied off, needle hanging out. He's like, where are them gators at? And you just look, you point your kids in that direction. You go, watch kids, he's going to wrestle a gator. Untying a rubber band tourniquet. Mom, this kind of sucks.

What do you expect? It's $4. It was on the side of the road. We didn't plan this. We thought it might be fun for you. Take some fucking pictures. Give it a second, kid. That thing's eating him today i guarantee it you might see a man get eaten and then you might see an alligator that's got a meth

high from his bloodstream both these things are things we're not going to see in the city kids focus if he ingests that man he will be addicted to meth in 10 minutes. Oh, God. Hooked on it. Chasing after people. Snapping. Trying to get in their pockets. Taking out his face and shit. The gator will be trying to get in people's pockets in five minutes. No good. Trying to sell you a broken TV.

Just buy it. Just buy it. It's an Allen. Just buy it. It's a Panasonic. Panasonic. Panasonic. But why does he even have the TV? He could just take our money. I don't know. It's an Allen. Just buy it. It's a Panasonic. Panasonic. Panasonic. But why does he even have the TV?

He could just take our money. I don't know. That's just part of the weird transaction. Just give him money and we'll take the TV and just let him walk away, okay? We're buying a TV from a gator. Who cares? We'll throw it out later. It doesn't matter.

I understand we don't need the TV. I know it doesn't work and it has no power cord. Just give it. Just stop, okay? It's a fucking gator. Just give it. Just stop. Okay? It's a fucking gator. Just give it your money. So he went to college at some point, attended. They go to Russell, Kansas. Like I said, they're living with some of his relatives.

During this time, they're there, Jimmy, a very short time. They're not there 10 years before they already come to the attention of law enforcement. before they already come to the attention of law enforcement. No, no, they come to the attention of Kansas law enforcement, like the Bureau of Investigation, not even just some cops driving around. Oh, my God, State Bureau. State Bureau of Investigation. They become concerned that the couple is possibly manufacturing crystal meth, and they're concerned about that, that that's an issue they need to get involved with.

So they begin an investigation. Now, around 2004, March of 2004, this investigation is coming to a head and they're writing warrants and they're ready to bust the whole thing. Put these two away for a long time. Take down the meth operation. Do all this. But before any warrants can be served served there's fresh ink on these warrants poof they're gone like kaiser so say they've fucking gone into the night just where'd they go where's lisa joe and roger i don't know gone out of there oh yeah they packed up her little

blue mitsubishi eclipse that she drives and uh they left russell kansas headed for hattiesburg mississippi you gotcha he almost said pennsylvania hattiesburg pennsylvania you tried to get away with that hattiesburg hattiesburg it sounds like a town in pennsylvania though hattiesburg pennsylvania i'd say okay yeah it's because of harrisburg hasn't it it's harrisburg and it's also in my mind it's because of how new yorkers say harrisburg well and there's a let me just draw out the a's that's's fine. Yeah, all right. You just pronounce it different. It's different, all right.

It's wrong, I understand. That's fine, but that's how it comes out. What do you want from me? Is that what it is, Harrisburg and Hattiesburg? Is that the thing? Isn't there an Aunt Hattie's Pretzels, too? There is Aunt Hattie's Pretzels. I think of pretzels, which makes me think of that region and maybe Pennsylvania, too.

I know it's mainly Wisconsin. It's got to be Harrisburg that does it to me. Yeah, maybe it's Harrisburg. Hattiesburg, Harrisburg. Yeah, probably. Is there a Hattiesburg, Pennsylvania? There's probably a Hattiesburg, Pennsylvania. Somebody's fucking wife must have been named Hattie in Pennsylvania, right?

Some rich asshole's wife was named Hattie, I'm sure. There's a Hattiesburg. So they pack up the Eclipse and head for Hattiesburg, Pennsylvania or Mississippi, depending. Do we know why they went there? Did they have family? We know exactly why they went there. They're heading.

How do you go from? Oregon to Mississippi. Yeah, with a stopover in Kansas. They're going the reverse Oregon Trail is what they're doing. I played this game a lot the forward way we gonna play it backwards see how that plays out shit's a little different gonna be different now see if when we go in reverse that i get healthy all my dead relatives will come back to life they've done shit themselves to death on the trail All my dead relatives will come back to life. They done shit themselves to death on the trail.

All these sores will heal up. All heal up. All the dysentery. All the cholera is all going to heal right up. Oh, it's going to be wonderful. My oxen going to come back to life. And all the shit I lost trying to get across that creek is going to come back to me. Everything will get better.

Damn it, I told him. No Ford that got higher than the fucking guy. God damn it, never mind. So they're headed for a cousin of Roger Gillett. It's his first cousin, as a matter of fact. So somebody he's close to. Vernon Hewlett. Vernon Hewlett, H-U-L-E-T-T. Old Vernon Hewlett, Vernon Hewlett, H U L E T T. Oh, Vernon Hewlett, Vernon Hewlett's 34 years old.

And he lives in, uh, in a, uh, a wood frame, three bedroom house. He's got a nice little house, little room there. If you need to stay here for a minute, you know, I understand when the laws abiding on your heels with all the meth warrants, you might need a place to haul up for a little while. You know what I mean? Does Vernon live alone? No, of course he doesn't live alone.

What are you kidding me? Absolutely not. We'll get to Vernon's housemates in a moment. Does anybody live alone around here, Jimmy, in this whole story? In any of our stories, is anybody just living alone? If you live alone, you have no reason to kill anybody. Relax. You have all the time in the world. Do whatever you want.

It's when people live on top of people, that's when they kill each other. That's mainly. There's a problem. There's a problem. But no, we'll talk about Vernon for a second. According to his mother, this is what his mother said, quote, he was my miracle baby. Oh. Oh, yeah. He was born three months early, and when he was three months old, he got sick, and the doctors told me he was going to die.

We took him to a research hospital in Mobile, and they tried some experimental drugs, and they saved his life. Oh. Look at that. So, yeah, Vernon's had a tough life when he was a baby least. So now he was sick before he was even supposed to be born. Absolutely. Wasn't supposed to make it pretty much out of the womb. It sounds like he was nine months into his whole existence. Yeah. So it's crazy. So he before before this March 2004, they haven't seen each other and he in years. Roger Lee Gillett and Vernon Hewlett. They haven't seen each other in years, but their first cousins were your first cousins. That's kind of a it's a close bond. So you yeah, you you do that.

Now, Hewlett had worked in Vernon, had worked in Kansas because he grew up in Kansas, too, with the rest of the Gilletts. in kansas because he grew up in kansas too with the rest of the gilletts he uh grew up there until the late 1990s when he moved to hattiesburg because his mother had moved there in 1988 so he had visited there and decided to move down there you know because there's at least a fucking tree it's not it's not kansas yeah so and is russell spelled r-u-s R U S S E L like a person or is it R U S T L E like the cattle? No, no, no.

It's, it's a person. It's I'm sure somebody's last name. It's not the cattle. It's not Russell up Kansas. Russell them up Kansas, baby. Like those horrible jeans.

Uh, home of the Russell rodeo. Yeah. You get yourself some Rustlers. Rustlers were knockoff Wranglers, which is sad. Yeah. Because Wranglers are knockoff Levi's. Walmart pants.

What the fuck? It's like having knockoff Hydrox. You're like, wait, these are waxy and bad. Why would I want something worse? These are knockoffs. Why is there a knockoff of a knockoff? Fuck, man. Where do you go beneath GoBot?

Is there anywhere to go? I don't see anywhere to go. It doesn't transform. You just go, here's a cop. Pretend it's a robot, too. There you go. Is that what a fucking knockoff GoBot is? From wranglers to wrestlers, what's next?

Horse thief jeans? Horse thief jeans. Jesus Christ. to wrestlers what's next horse thief jeans horse thief jeans jesus christ roustabout jean corporation that's what it is how much further do we gotta go why is there a knockoff of the knockoff the commercial oh kathy i like those are those roustabouts oh you know i'm a roustabout. And then like walking away, oh, man, all the boys are going to love you and those. You know me. I won't spend more than $2.99 on jeans.

I'll tell you what. For $1.49, you can't beat it. They sell them next to the fishing lures. You're going to like them. Sell them next to live night crawlers and then there's these jeans next to them that's what that's what it is this is my going out jeans to the store to that store that they got there in town oh christ almighty so anyway he grows up there and he moved with his mom or moved to there where his mom lived in 1988 did vernon hewlett and he came with a girlfriend in tow 37 year old three years older than him lisa heintzelman or linda i'm sorry not lisa l Linda. Linda Heiselman. The other Heinzelman.

The other one is Lisa Jo Chamberlain. That's Vernon's girl. Vernon's girl is Linda Heiselman. OK. She lives Heinzelman. She lives with him. Came from Kansas. Relocated to Hattiesburg.

They live together. OK. There we go. So now Hewlett Vernon works for the city of Hattiesburg Sanitation Department. So he's got a city job. That's why he's got a nice little house and got his life together. He moved there. He's doing his thing.

I guess. Yeah, I guess. While while Lisa Jo Chamberlain and Roger Gillett, when they get there, you know, they have no he has no money, no work or anything like that. So he goes down to the job center down there in Hattiesburg and Roger Gillett obtains day jobs. Just, you know, you know, those day jobs you get at a temp place like that. We go labor one place and then you go labor another place and every day a different place. Dig a trench somewhere else tomorrow. Yep.

So he's doing that. The ladies, Lisa, Joe and Lindainda are they don't work they stay home so that's how we're doing that they stay home well lisa does meth heintzelman doesn't do meth and neither does vernon hewlett neither of them do math he's got a day job he works for the fucking sanitation department he's getting drug tested yeah no they're they're not neither of these they're not into that shit either of those these people they're normal no they're they're citizens they're normal people just like trying to do a solid for a family member. That's all there is to it.

Linda, by the way, is known as, everybody describes her as a little slow. Not disabled, not challenged, not whatever the fucking word is. Not like, you know, going to get government assistance for it or anything like that. She's just a little bit, but kind, sweet, nice, just a little bit. Not the smartest person going as far in terms of like IQ goes and shit like that. But she's sweet, nice, and can do everything everybody else does. So that's the way this is all going down. Now we have the whole scene set.

She can consent and be a person. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she can do whatever she wants. You enter contracts. She's not like a you know ward of the state or anything she's just a little bit slow that's all just you know whatever just i'm gonna say we know people i'm sure much slower than her yeah i know comics that are much slower than her probably so by far yeah we know some where we're shaking our heads

like how the fuck did that guy find his way here how do you find the fucking club never mind get on the stage and have jokes were prepared i don't understand this came out of the bathroom everything went fine in there really are you sure you're sure about that you wiped and everything you want you have to check up on them like you're there you're like six year old you wiped what age is it when how old do your kids have to get before you stop asking them every time they go in the bathroom if they wipe their ass? You know what I'm saying? Because once they learn, up until a certain age, every time they go in, as soon as the door opens, you go, did you wipe? Did you wipe or what?

And they go, yeah, I wiped. You go, okay. You wash your hands? Okay. After you wiped? Yeah. You use toilet paper, not your hand, right? Yeah.

You just drag it on the carpet you have to get you do like the dog does just put your put your feet up and fucking drag your asshole on the carpet is that what you're doing yeah because sometimes my son's 13 and he does fine. He functions as a person. But sometimes when I see him come out of the bathroom, I'm like, you don't look disheveled enough. Did you put some work in there? What you doing there? I'm sure you're clean. You don't look disheveled enough. You got to fight with that shit, son.

You got to wrestle that turd to the ground when you come out of there i want it to look like you've just been in a bar fight boy i want your hair messed up some marks on your face what's happening come on son get in there get back in there and try again. Get back in there and wrestle with that snake, boy. Come on. Oh, man. So anyway, this is what's going on for a while. And for a while, for a few weeks or so, a couple of weeks, things seem to go fine.

The two couples are living there. There seems to be enough room for everybody to get along. Problem is, Roger's not really making enough money to support him and Lisa Jo doing these day jobs. So after a while here, after a couple of weeks, Vernon Hewlett starts getting a little bit pissy about feeding them or buying all the food for everybody in the house. Like, you guys are adults. I'm not supporting you. It's, you know, I work hard. I deal in fucking shit every day. I literally deal in people's feces.

That's what I'm dealing with to put food on this table. To be a father to adults. Yeah, to an adult who is, you know, three years younger than me and his, and, you know, meth Barbie next to him. I'm not. No. So not happening. So, yeah, things get a little bit, you know, a little bit wary between them and things.

There's a lot of problems here. There's a disagreement as well. Lisa, Joe and Roger are fighting about whether to stay in Hattiesburg, whether to leave. There's pressure in the house. It's uncomfortable. But where the fuck are we going to go? We have no money. We can't go back to Kansas because we're wanted by I'm sure they want us.

We know they were investigating us. Your options are limited when you're on the run and needing a meth fix. They're either limited or unlimited depending on how you look at them, honestly. Truly. either limited or unlimited depending on how you look at them honestly truly it's got to be frustrating for both of them uh being in the they're probably going through withdrawals and or if they're if they've gone back into using there's there's got to be tons of frustration for them but for vernon fuck how do you let family move in and then you've got that shit happening yeah this is they won't leave i don't talk to my family. They won't leave.

They're doing meth in your house. You got to feed them. It's a mess. It's not good. I always want help with something. Fuck. No. I don't know you.

I don't know you. Who is it that, uh, what was it? Was it Chris Rock that was talking about? Like he goes, I try not to talk to my family. Not that people would come to us for this. They'd know better. They'd know that this is impossible. But he's like, people come up and they ask for five grand like it's nothing.

He goes, people in my family are like, yeah, you got like five grand? Like, it's like $2. Like, everybody I know just said, hey, five grand, five grand. Like, what the fuck is that shit? I feel like that's how this guy feels. Like, oh, what is it? Fucking chicken dinner. I got this.

Every day it's $20. What are we doing? We had Salisbury steaks last night. There's meat in that. It costs money. You know you know what i mean yeah it was the frozen ones but still costs money still protein still protein banquet's not free you know how it works johnny swanson's got to make his nut too you know what i'm saying so um at one point they are together, not in the same car. They're in tandem.

Yeah, I don't understand why they're in tandem, but they're in tandem. It is the Mitsubishi Eclipse, and Heinzelman is driving her 1991 Dodge Dakota pickup truck. Hell yeah. She's got that Hewlett in the passenger seat and lisa joe and roger are in the clips now apparently there was an issue with linda was ahead of them and changed lanes to try to get in front of them because they were i don't know somebody passed or whatever the fuck deal was but they wanted to get in the same lane again but she didn't give enough clearance and bashed into the mitsubishi with the back of her truck wow sending the mitsubishi off the road into a ditch and basically destroying the fucking car oh my god yeah total accident it was a total

accident she just didn't have enough clearance and bashed her into the fucking end of the thing so lisa joe became furious on this furious they were going down to the mississippi gulf coast and then this all happened so very very angry um and uh eventually heintzelman promised to report the accident as a claim against her insurance she said i'll say i even though the truck wasn't damaged that much, but she said, I'll put in a claim against my insurance and then we'll divide the insurance proceeds and you can fucking, you can keep it.

Basically. So she said, you know, you can keep it for whatever you need it for and then I'll take the rest. So that's how that was worked out. Problem is apparently she didn't do it. Heinzelman didn't do it in a timely enough fashion

for Lisa Jo. And Lisa Jo got mad. Every day she's like, when are you going to file that paperwork? When are you going to file that paperwork? And like a week goes by,

but she's freaking out about this paperwork, which is not great. And then at one point, Lisa Jo is complaining to Roger Gillett about, you know, what's going on.

And apparently Gillett told her, quote, they don't like you. You're making it worse. This is the reason why they want us out, because they don't like you. Stop breaking balls and stop doing all this shit. She's like, but she hit my car and said she had a point, Lisa Jo, too. She destroyed my car. How the fuck can I even leave? My car's fucked up now.

That's the problem with being a pain in the ass. Even when you've got a legitimate gripe, it doesn't get taken seriously when you're an asshole. Yeah. I mean, for her, though, they don't have a car anymore. That was their car. Now their car is destroyed. Now they're stuck there. So Heinzelman has, you think they have a lot of motivation to make sure that car gets fixed.

And that's the only way they're leaving the fucking house. They're not going to walk away. So, yeah, it becomes an issue. That becomes very, very, very contentious, this whole thing. So March 19th, 2004. This is when everything kind of comes. And by the way, this is an approximate date. Could be the 18th, could be the 20th.

Based on a meth-y meth recollection this is a you know it could go either way so right around about the 19th right around about the 19th right around or about around the uh around the side of the 19th right around about around about 19th uh one day um they've all been drinking okay Okay? It's the 19th. Both couples sitting around drinking. Just a recipe for a terrific night between four adults who can't stand each other. Perfect. So they're all drinking.

Four adults that happen to be two couples with men that have interest in defending their wives and wives that have interest in defending their men. Yeah, and wives that don't like each other. Right. That's the main beef is Lisa Jo and Linda. Yeah, and wives that don't like each other. Right. That's the main beef is Lisa Jo and Linda. Those are the two that butt heads the most.

Vernon and Roger can get along. They're fine. They're cousins, but they don't get along now because they're fighting about the ladies. So, obviously. And everybody's either drunk or on meth, so that's another problem. Reasonable minds aren't going to come to the forefront here yeah cooler heads will not prevail so vernon and linda uh hewlett and heintzelman suggest after a day of drinking i love how this is put by the way in the court document quote suggests that gillett and chamberlain move out so what they said was get the fuck out of my house yeah do you think it was hey guys i

got a great idea. I got a great idea. No, no, no. Seriously, check this out. What if you guys, okay, no, no, got the fuck out of our house. What do you think of that, huh? Wouldn't that be great? You just pack up all your shit and leave? You know, like-

I'll put you on a greyhound? When we wake up in the morning, you're not here. You're not here. Like one of those kind of things. We'll take you right to the bus station and you take it to shit. I don't care. Anywhere. Doesn't matter. But you won't be here even better uh we don't have to do another motherfucking thing

to get you out of our lives and that'd be great or i think it was probably why don't you two quit your bitch and get the fuck out of our goddamn house then if you don't lack it i think it was one of those probably yeah that's probably one of those like you know when are you gonna file that insurance thing or when are you gonna get the fuck out of my probably. That's probably one of those. When are you going to file that insurance thing? When are you going to get the fuck out of my house? There's a lot of things that could come to that. What time's dinner? What time are you getting the fuck out of my house?

Really, it could go to any opening. You could put that in there if you want someone out of your house. You really could. It's a beautiful night tonight. It's a beautiful night to get the fuck out of my house. Tell you what, buddy. That's right it is. It's gorgeous beautiful night tonight. It's a beautiful night to get the fuck out of my house. Tell you what, buddy. That's right it is. It's gorgeous out here.

Gorgeous night for a long walk back to Kansas is where I'll tell you what it's a nice night for. Get yourself a head start. You'll make it by, I don't know, a month, month and a half. You'll really give a shit, to be honest with you. I just know it's a nice night for moving. It's a nice night for moving along now. with you i just know it's a nice night for moving it's a nice night for moving along now y'all ever moseyed have you ever done that y'all ever moseyed along ever done that at all it's a you could mosey you could head yonder is another way to put it you can

ski daddle i like that one that sounds fun all them kids say dip out something like that something like that you can get them on them do that now uh yeah try it all in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell she insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one

and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So after this whole thing, this tension between everybody

causes Lisa, Joe, and Roger to go inside and also argue. Okay, so it's a four-person argument that then splinters off and breaks into another two-person argument based on the four-person argument. Remember when we told them to get out of our house? Now we pissed them off.

They just went back in our house. In our house to fucking argue now. But the point is, Lisa joe wants to leave she's been she's been wanting to leave but their car's fucked up is her only issue so she's like yes let's get the fuck out of here we're not going to stick around and argue with these people i don't want to even be in this fucking house so that's how that goes so anyway chamberlain ends up saying fine i'll fucking leave goodbye vernon no lisa joe chamberlain oh oh lisa joe got lisa joe says i've had it i'm fucking leaving goodbye i'm taking off so she grabs some of her meager belongings here and intends to hitchhike to Oregon. Oh, my God. Which is a fucking long way to hitchhike. This is not 1974.

It's very difficult to hitchhike 2,000 miles and change in 2004. It really is. It's just not a thing that people do anymore. With their pants down, carrying a lamp and a paddle ball. That's it. All I need is this lamp and this thermos and this remote control. All I need is this lamp and this thermos and this remote control. So she ends up getting a ride from a trucker.

So a trucker will pick you up, I guess, still, in 2004. She got a ride from a trucker to a truck stop about two hours away. So she's on her way. She's two hours away. She's on her way. She's two hours away. Problem is, at the truck stop, she can't find another ride. Oh, no. An entire truck stop worth of trucks, they take a look at her and go, I don't think so. No thanks.

I don't think so, Methy. I don't think so, Metherella. We're not going to do that. Metherella with a lamp? Yeah. I don't care what you're doing here. That's not help. Nope. Please don't show me that. Metherello with a lamp? Yeah. I don't know. I don't care what you're doing here. That's not help. Nope. Please don't show me that.

Nope. Nope. Nope. That's not. You're not sweetening the deal, Lenny. Yeah. I see track marks. So she is unable to get a ride.

So she shrugs her shoulders, turns back, and begins walking the two hours back to Hattiesburg. Two hour ride. Twelve hour walk. God knows how long of a walk. Going 65 miles an hour takes two hours back to Hattiesburg. Two hour ride, 12 hour walk. God knows how long of a walk. Going 65 miles an hour takes two hours. Now it's a two day walk. She eventually gets a ride somewhere along this path. Someone gives her a ride and she ends up back at the house somehow.

It's been a long day for her to say the least. So she returns to find Roger Gillett standing on the front porch smoking a cigarette. And he's angry, by the way, because they walk inside and everybody's been fighting in here. OK, everybody's been arguing. It's a fucking disaster, an absolute disaster. In addition, apparently when Lisa Jo gets there, she walks in, heads right for the refrigerator, and grabs a cold beer out of there. Okay? Vernon, who was in the kitchen, took it from her and said no and took the beer away.

You're not drinking more of my beer. Because everybody's fighting. No. Now, she just walked. She's been in the Mississippi heat for god knows how long and her lady's day has been ruined she wants beer so now everybody's in a fucking argument at this point now vernon hewlett begins accusing roger gillett of hitting lisa joe chamberlain under vernon's roof you're beating your girlfriend in my house and i don't like it

okay okay now chamberlain is busting in going he hasn't hit me at all and apparently there has there wasn't any abuse between them at that time uh at in that time in the house not obviously tried to drown her at another point but in the house there's been no drowning attempts or or any abuse they've been kind of more uh fighting as a couple with the other couple rather than with each other they have a they need a some sort of equal fucking enemy they can attack together or they have to be fighting something you know whether it's each other or some shit so chamberlain busts in and says you're a liar he ain't hitting me at all and now they're all in a fucking argument now now heintzelman saying don't you fucking why you calling my man a liar?

I know it's true. And how are you fucking bitch? And they're going back and forth. And the guys are arguing. You can't be hitting your woman in my house. It's a fucking disaster. Absolute disaster. So at this point here, Gillett starts yelling at Linda Heinzelman, accusing her about that.

Because she said, I put in the insurance claim. I reported the accident and put it in. starts yelling at Linda Heinzelman accusing her about that. Cause she said, I put in the insurance claim. I reported the accident and put it in. And he's saying, no, you didn't. You're a liar. You didn't do it at all.

Okay. So now Chamberlain wanted to get their things and put everything into the car and, and leave, even though their car doesn't work, just put all our stuff in the car. We'll store it there and we'll take off and go find some place to stay. I don't give a shit.

And we'll figure it out. But Gillett said, no, we're going to stay the night. I ain't leaving now. It's late. Not going to inconvenience me, goddammit, because they're assholes. We're going to stay the night and leave comfortable in the morning, respectable like people, like upstanding people. Like adults, yeah. Like people, like upstanding people.

Like adults, yeah. Like adult people who don't have raging meth addictions. So Lisa Jo at that point went into the kitchen and grabbed two beers from the refrigerator. Now she's, I'm going to take one for me, one for him, one for Roger. Hewlett again grabs her and told her that she couldn't have them. You're not them beers i told you god damn it yeah those are my beers takes him away at that point uh gillett comes into the room and okay doesn't go after vernon hewlett who's the one grabbing the beers away instead picks up linda heintzelman and slams her onto the kitchen counter what yeah roger gillett picks up verdon's girlfriend and slams her onto the fucking cat yeah exactly slams

her onto the counter okay so at this point uh gillett tells lisa joe go get my gun from under the mattress in the bedroom to which she says sure and goes in there to do it so i've been waiting all day oh my god jesus go get my gun okay not hey what are we doing here you know this is crazy she goes sure so um he she gets it gillett takes the gun and first fires a shot into the floor just to tell everyone that this fucking gun's loaded. Shit's serious. Pow! Fires a shot into the floor to get everyone under control under the commotion of everything.

He then gets the keys to Heinzelman's pickup truck. Give me your keys, Linda. So Chamberlain, without instruction, by the way, Lisa Jo does. No one told her to do this. She did this on her own. Went outside of her own volition to cut the telephone wire to the house. Oh, what? When she gets there, she, yeah, oh, yeah, that's what I mean.

She's like, oh, good, we're doing this shit. I'm cutting the wire. Think about if that's your first, oh, it's on. Cut them telephone wires and let's rock and roll motherfuckers like what the hell are you doing what has she done wow yeah that's what i'm saying like her experience is cut the wires to the telephone so no one can call the police that's crazy who the fuck thinks like that right this isn't serial killers think like that this is insane in the 70s.

Wow. Yeah, this is some shit. But the fucked up part is when she gets out there to cut them, she sees. And this is when you know it's true love, Jimmy. This is when you know it's love. Roger already cut them. How thoughtful. It's like the gift of the Magi.

Isn't that nice? It's fucking beautiful. They're already done. Thank you. I went to the dishes, found the sink empty. Wouldn't you know, I opened the oven, just dinner in there cooking, cooking away. I went to start it and it was already almost done. I look over, table set. Unbelievable.

What a night. Preheat nothing, turkey's almost done. Fucking, that's been basted and everything. It's beautiful. Crispy skin. So that's true love when you go to cut the telephone wires and see that your baby already cut them. Isn't that nice? Your sweetheart.

Your sweetheart already cut them. That's love after lockup shit right there. That's intense. So anyway, the wires are cut. So then Chamberlain takes the gun. Lisa Jo takes the gun, walks outside with it because now they can kind of have the run of the place because the telephone wires are cut. I don't know why no one has a cell phone yet in 2004, but that's another story. So Chamberlain takes the gun outside and fires a shot at the truck, at the truck truck tires trying to shoot out the truck tires but

gillett comes outside and grabs her arm and says don't shoot the truck tires out that's our getaway car the fuck are you doing yeah how do you expect to get away from this exactly without a car that's the car that works don't be a moron so she said oh shit my bad and brought how about lisa you don't do anything more just follow me remember when you went to cut the wires i already did that if though if i wanted those truck tires shot i'd have done it i'm good at this i'm pretty good at this i've done a lot of crime you're still learning no no i your efforts are admirable. But he's mansplaining crime to her. That would be amazing. No, no, no.

I think it's adorable that you want to be a criminal and a murderer and everything. That's so cute. But no, no. You got to follow my lead, sweetheart. He pats her on the ass and walks inside. I'll teach you how to shoot later. I'm glad you missed the time. Now go ahead and put some Miracle Whip on some bread for him and i'll be in in a minute

so that's what goes on here um so they take the gun back into the house uh with one bullet left in it so apparently he only had three bullets to begin with that's all he's got it's all he's got so he's there's one bullet remaining now in the gun remember that okay so um they get in the house gillett now goes over to vernon hewlett and says give me the combination to your safe they have a big safe in their bedroom this is give me the combination of your safe and hewlett says nah ain't gonna do it no no i don't wanna what do you think of that i'm gonna give you the same answer I gave your wife about beer. No. No.

Get the fuck out. How's that? So there is a combination to getting the fuck out of my house. I could give that to you. It's open the door, walk through it, and keep out roads that way. That's the combination. Walk it on the other side. Kiss my ass is the last part of it.

You got to do that to really make it pop open so he would not he said no so gillett then punches him several times starts pummeling vernon hewlett at this point saying give me the fucking uh give me the goddamn combination he's saying no i'm not doing it he still won't give it to him son of a bitch so he says to lisa joe chamberlain roger says hey go into the bedroom with fucking linda over here you and linda down in the bedroom get the safe roll it out here okay let's go roll the fucking safe out here so um yeah do all that now heinzelman can't remember the combination to the safe. Really? She doesn't have a very good memory, everybody says, too.

She's not real good with that sort of thing. So she said she doesn't remember the combination for the safe. She said only Vernon's mother knows the combination to the safe. It's not our safe, even. It's Vernon's mother's, and Vernon's mother knows the combination. She just keeps her safe here. We don't know. So, yeah. mother knows the combination she just keeps her safe here we don't know so um uh yeah uh now

hewlett apparently at some point gives them a combination but it doesn't work of course he gives them like if i don't know if he thought they were going to be like all right cool and like take the safe and leave and we'll open it later or some shit i don't know what he thought they were going to do y'all have a good evening and i'll leave a six-pack on your door later to replace the beer we drank because i feel bad about that y'all gonna want a cold beer later on he's gonna get to the safe house and not be able to open the safe yeah that's not gonna work so um it's at this point out of nowhere that uh they can't get the safe open but out of nowhere lisa joe chamberlain goes into a fucking absolute shit

crazy rage about the car being damaged she's back on that she's like you fucked up my car you fucking bitch she's going around the house trashing the house she turned she knocked the dresser over in the bedroom and knocked the refrigerator down she pulled the refrigerator over jimmy think about that that's a strong woman that's a strong woman in a meth fucking rage like think about either needs meth or has too much meth one of the two yeah but either way that is uh that's think about how fucking easy to do no how angry how aggressive you have to be to yank a refrigerator over holy shit that's something man

so you don't want to you don't want to half pull it over and have it rock back so you really give it that does not punctuate your rage fucking yeah that's not gonna do it it's gotta come over it's gotta come over you're having a boom god damn it hold on a minute put your put your foot on yeah put it there and i'll yeah then pull it back so it doesn't fall there you go boom oh thank you for that make sure you pull it yeah make sure please really give it a can you push from that side and i'll go low over here so she turned over the refrigerator and knocked the dresser down so this is just you're a bitch nothing you can do about it because the car is broken now but i'm going to destroy your house because of that. So at one point, she says to everybody in the living room, Lisa Jo says, fuck this.

I'm just going to burn the house down and we'll leave. And then she walks into the bedroom and lights the gas heater in the bedroom. And she's going to do something to burn the house down based on that. She's going to put like a curtain on it or whatever. So but Gillett ran in the room after her and turned it off and said oh not yet we're not take it easy calm down honey we're in the house right now let's wait till we're let's wait till we're walking out before we start setting this place ablaze we're ready to go jesus christ Jesus Christ. So Gillett continues to beat Vernon Hewlett periodically. Beat him up.

Yeah. Getting like a punching him, beating him, talking shit to him, all this shit. At some point, this is the weirdest shit I've ever heard in my life. At some point, Hewlett says, well, I work today. It's been a long day. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. And just goes to, he just goes to bed.

How passive is this guy? I mean, I don't know if he's like a little stunad from getting beat up in the head or something. Like if he's like, you know, got a concussion and he doesn't know what he's doing or what the fucking story is. But he literally says, I had a long day and worked hard, so I'm going to bed now and goes to bed. He's been being punched for the last two hours his get up early house is trashed the refrigerator's on its side you're right and he's like well have a good one everybody i'm going to sleep he's a company man right there wow how drunk and or concussed do you have to be for that to happen one of the two unbelievable wow that's the weirdest shit i ever heard so uh he goes he

says that now at this point um they realize that they never got any more beer there's any more beer in the house everybody's been drinking all the beer so around 1 30 a.m linda joe or lisa joe uh chamberlain took linda heintzelman's truck to buy beer the truck with the bullet hole in it no it doesn't she missed okay she missed the truck so it's a whole truck missed she was shooting at a tire and hit the ground so whole truck missed the whole truck yeah well she hit the ground she was short what do you want so the she's trying to get there before the 2 a.m booze sales cut off right so apparently the store had already closed or whatever the fucking case was she ends up not being getting any alcohol when she's out oh my god so she comes back uh

about uh an hour later she ends up coming back it's about 2 30 she ends up now beerless uh and she walks in on quite the fucking scene here boy boy. And there's several points in here where you go, okay, she's going to do this now. And then she does the complete opposite. It's fucking crazy. So she walks into a scene of Vernon still in bed where, you know, Bernie was tired, awfully tired. Heinzelman is not in bed, though. She is bent over the safe with no pants on so no pants

no pants bent over the safe okay yikes now chamberlain lisa joe inquires to roger did you did you fucking rape her did you like have you been doing this and roger terrible question not not oh it's not a question you're normally asked i would think especially in this situation um but he says by the way when she's asking she's not asking because she would find that morally reprehensible she's asking because that would be cheating in her mind i'm not shitting you you cheating somebody yeah did you fucking do that she was like and then he was like no no no i didn't do this listen to what he says she's mooning us she's moon yeah no he says that i made her undressed in order to break her like to try to get her to give me the combination and so then i just raped her with a beer bottle oh my god and chamberlain said oh okay good good

yeah exactly she said no all right that's i thought you were cheating so you know that's that's what she her concern is that holy oh. That's all you're doing. Great. Perfect. Yeah. Did she talk? That's her main concern is like, well, did it work? And he said, no, she won't tell me shit. So Chamberlain, Lisa Jo shrugs her shoulders and goes, I don't know. I'm hungry. So she goes into the kitchen and eats herself a piece of chicken.

After coming home to that, the decisions that these people make are insane. It's a crazy mad lib of what's the last thing you would do? Okay, perfect. That's what they're going to do. What's the worst thing you could do here? I don't know. Go eat a piece of chicken? Well, that's what she's doing.

Do you fuck her, you cheating bastard? No, I raped her with a beer bottle. Oh, great choice. You know, to break her will, so she'll give me the combination to her safe oh good thinking that's what that's what he said spices chicken in there still so yeah he gets she gets a chicken leg and eats it and goes back in there and heintzelman is still you know fucking over the safe and she's just eating the chicken leg like nothing's the matter when she's done with the chicken leg, she forces Linda to insert the chicken bone into her own anus. Oh, my God.

Yeah. That's all Lisa Jo, by the way. Lisa Jo goes and gets the chicken, eats the chicken, and says, do this now. And fucking makes her do it. Wow. Yeah. For fear of her life, essentially. I think she'd give up the combination if she knew it by

now everybody so yeah i think she'd probably give it up i don't think she'd be like yeah i'm gonna go through all this for a fucking combination it was safe holy hell so yeah this is horrible we've never had in our whole small town we've never had a woman have an idea like that no ever it's fucking it's just bonkers especially when there's a guy when there's a couple together it's the guy who's coming up with the sadistic ideas and the woman's like all right fine I'll go along with it but she's like I'll up the ante beer bottle fuck that here's a chicken bone it's fucking horrible it's horrible. So it's at this point that Hewlett finally joins the party again Vernon. Yeah I mean I don't know what drew him to the occasion but he's he's up out of bed i guess he can't sleep smell of fresh chicken holy shit so he comes out and tells rather than say what the fuck's going on with my what are you doing with my girlfriend let her up

get that chicken bone out of her he says don't tell him the combination linda what what the fuck is that about so he's doing um yeah he tells her not to but instead they all sit in the dark and they force they make them everybody sit in the dark so the neighbors aren't like aware of what's going on this is meth paranoia by the way and then they make not that she has any expertise in this at all they tell linda heintzelman to pick that lock you better open that safe pick the lock she doesn't know how to pick a safe lock who the fuck does unless you have a tools and shit who's gonna pick a safe lock she's got like her you know a fork and a hairpin trying to pick a safe lock what What are they counting on is in that safe? $2 billion?

Because you're going to be on the run now. Enough money to get to Mexico. That's what they want. They want to get to Mexico. A grand. So yeah, that's all it takes. And they'll get down there and then live fat forever. You know how it is in Mexico.

Free flying. We'll go down there, not even speaking the language. We'll be millionaires in no time. It's going to be perfect. On the run. Lamp of opportunity. Yeah. So finally, Lisa Jo turns to Roger.

She's bored now. This is a lot of, it's all boring. Remember, she wanted to leave to begin with. She says, let's just kill them and get this the fuck over with and get the fuck out of here, is her exact words. Get this the fuck over with and kill them and get the fuck out of here she's tired of this so well gillett says all right fine um tell you what go on and get my box cutter uh there's a box cutter inside vernon hewlett's got a tool room that has some of his tools he goes go get a box cutter there and uh you know there you go uh but instead so she went and get the box cutter and brings it back to him hewlett instead sits down

in his chair very casual this hewlett well i guess they're gonna kill me now i'll sit down in my favorite chair instead of cutting him gillett grabs a hammer and begins fucking walloping him in the head with a hammer. Real hard. At one point, it bent the metal handle of the hammer. Holy shit. You know how fucking hard you have to hammer something to bend? They're not supposed to bend. It's a hammer.

It's supposed to be the thing that's stronger than the thing you're going against. That's the point. He's been using that hammer for how long, and it hasn't bent. Yeah, this is a lot. So at that point, they're beating him with the hammer. They beat him with the hammer, cave in his skull,

and he's still sitting on the chair. Now they turn to Linda Heintzelman and go, you can open the fucking safe now. And she said, no, I don't know the combination. I don't know how to open the safe. So and she said no i don't know the combination i don't know how to open the safe so roger tells lisa chamberlain will you strangle her and get it over with kill her please so lisa goes sure no problem and lisa goes to strangle linda grabs her around the throat but linda's too strong for linda's struggling her throat isn't like it's not a weak little throat

it's hard to and it's hard to strangle somebody yeah you got being bigger than someone to strangle them really helps a lot i would imagine you don't want to strangle someone your own size she may have expended all of her energy throwing all the all the shit around the place that's the other maybe her meth is wearing off i don't know what it is. So, but yeah, she's too strong. So she can't do it. She's like, God damn it. So she goes, this will work. She goes into the kitchen and gets a knife.

Does Lisa Jo. She gets a kitchen, goes in, gets a kitchen knife and, you know, gives it to Gillett. And it was like, will you stab her? I can't strangle her. It's not working. Will you stab her and get it over with? So Gillett tells Lisa Jo, all right, I'll do do it but go wait out in the truck while i do it i don't know what he's embarrassed about this part he wasn't embarrassed about i raped her with a beer

bottle that was fine but i don't want you to see me have to do this you saw me cousin yeah saw me cave in my cousin's brain with a hammer but this over here is a it's a bridge too far i know how you don't lack blood so um anyway this is fucking crazy um he tells her to go wait out in the truck um while she does she goes and waits out in the truck um he beats her he stabs her he hits her in the head with shit she doesn't die linda heintzelman is tough and she will not die um she's uh stays alive as we'll talk about for quite some time quite some time um now when uh lisa joe comes back into the house she sees that vernon hewlett still in his chair bloody and she sees heintzelman on the floor and uh bloody but both of them are still breathing vernon and linda they're both still breathing so chamberlain then again tries to open the safe but can't get it open because you don't know the combination crackhead and only a

crackhead would keep going over and trying to well maybe this will work well maybe i could pry it open with this thing and it never works. So she's all pissed off. She turns to Gillett and says, they're breathing. Are you going to fucking kill him or not? Like, what the fuck, slow motherfucker? Kill him. Are you a man? Kind of, yeah.

So he says, yeah, I'm fucking killing him. I'm getting around. This is the weirdest nagging I've ever heard in my life. Like, this is the strangest marital nagging ever. Did kill your cousin and his wife i said i'd kill him we'll kill him already get around to it because they're gonna be laying around getting all bloody all right already jesus christ i understand i know the garbage has to go out to the curb i'll kill him and get him in there it's too much so glad to be divorced this brings back a lot of memories a lot of uh when you're i know you and your wife when you were your ex-wife when you were murdering people together

it was usually you know on your crime sprees i know it was very similar to this exact same nag same shit man um so he said yes i will now Chamberlain here, Lisa Jo, starts loading their belongings into the pickup truck. Well, I'll start packing up the truck here. At that point, Roger Gillett slashes Vernon's throat. Okay. Slashes Hewlett's throat. And he tells Lisa Jo, it's done. All finished.

Slashed them all up. Ready to go here. So they hop in the pickup truck and drive away with Lisa driving, the 91 Dakota. All right. As they're driving, Roger Gillett throws the hammer out at one point, throws the knife out at one point on the highway, you know, just random spots away. And they drive for about an hour or two, about an hour or two. And at this point, it's around the sun's

starting to come up it's daybreak and he said you know what in the light of the morning sun i see things in a more clear fashion you know how that is the the glow the morning glow you know it's a beautiful clear thing and you can just see right through it and we got to turn around turn around we got to turn this turn around we need to finish what we started here we need to finish what we started um you know i'm not sure we got to clean it all up we just left a lot of loose ends let's get on back there so they turn it around and head back to the house. Oh, God. Okay. When they returned, Hewlett is in the chair. Appears to be dead. Appears, I do say. We'll get back to that in a second.

He's had his throat cut and his skull bashed in, but hanging in there. Linda Heintzelman is on the floor, still breathing strongly. Really? Yeah. So they walk in the door, and Gillett goes glad we came back jesus look they're alive holy shit so lisa at this point got super fucking mad at linda really mad at her goes over at linda for being alive yeah real mad at her and bends over and gets in her face and says why aren't you gone yet in her face just screams and says, why aren't you gone yet?

In her face. Just screams in her face. Why aren't you gone yet? She's real angry about this. So he gillets like, it's not my fault. Look. And shows them, look, I slashed his throat and everything. He didn't die.

What the fuck? You slash a guy's throat, you expect him to croak. What the hell here? You ever seen a movie? It works. Works every time. So they went, well went well shit this is a lot going on well it's been a long day though tell you what they just got some blankets covered them both up and then went down in the bedroom and went to sleep they just decided we better it'll look ever in the light of the morning everything's

gonna look different you know we're gonna sleep on it and see how we ever in the light of the morning everything's gonna look different you know we're gonna sleep on it and see how we feel in the morning they just covered them up went to bed and went right to sleep okay no problem why aren't you going i'll tuck you in i'll tuck you in so um chamberlain said she couldn't stay in the house and uh instead she went to sleep in her car around 6 30 or 7 a.m she went to sleep in the car uh after about three hours she went back into the house and she found roger gillett sitting on the sofa in the living room his cousin with a skull bashed in his throat cut in the chair he's just lounging like this is furniture now. Morning, honey. Morning. And I made coffee. It's going.

There's still a cup left. Left you some. If the hunger club's on, sit on down. Yeah, come on. Pat Robertson going to say some good shit now. Tell us about the Lord, Pat. Woo-hoo. I got good news.

Sing it, Pat Boone. So they, and Linda is still on the floor breathing though she's still breathing it's this whole night so chamberlain and gillett decide to go out into the front yard and just hang out okay they spend the day on lawn chairs in the front yard just having some beers relaxing waving at neighbors and shit hi hi y'all just fucking yeah we gonna see the football game later that's right just totally casual hanging out in the front yard they spend a little time real time that's southern mississippi they're saying roll tide i doubt they are is this auburn country is that what this is that's alabama too this is old miss southern miss, too. This is Ole Miss, Southern Miss.

There's a bunch of those. A lot of Misses around this area. But there's some real time around here. I'm sure there is, just to be different or difficult or because they're better. You know? I don't know. It's for the championships and shit. Yeah.

You know how that goes. So they hang out in the yard for the rest of the day. They go back in. And Linda's still alive, by the way, when they hang out in the yard for the rest of the day they go back in and uh linda's still alive by the way when they go back in at the end of the day she's just been suffering for over 12 hours now sitting there laying on the ground and uh so lisa joe says maybe we should like smother or strangle her or something right i mean i do it somehow that's the least messy i guess right so gillett says well how do you think we should do it and chamberlain says well we should put why don't we put a plastic bag over her head they always say not to you know let kids put them

over when i had my kids for three weeks or so back before they took them all away i remember they told me never let them put a plastic bag on their head and i think that's why so let's do it um i took them home from the hospital they had a couple of things they said no plastic bags no shaking we shook the shit out of her i mean that's the bag on her so fuck i did that we cut her we we hit her i did all of it so she gathered plastic bags from all around the house and uh they tried to do it but she started to struggle yeah somehow in her state she was still able to put on like an unconscious struggle basically and she's strong so they went fuck what do we do now well let's bound her hands behind her back with duct tape this poor woman holy shit so gillett then asked chamberlain what would you

rather do you want to hold her head or put the bag over it which one you know it's a two-man operation this bagging thing you can't just tag and bag all by yourself you know what i mean fucking insane so chamberlain says i'll put the bag over her head you hold her yeah it's easier for me to just do the bag uh he told her i can't do it by myself uh and then at this point though um she said that she couldn't help him for some reason so he said well fine then i'll figure it out and he got her in a headlock and he put the bag over her head the first bag and then lisa joe helped him with the next two bags over her head three bags triple bagged her yeah um she began making noises linda she begins screaming and howling and you know her mouth's not taped or anything like that so they're afraid that a

neighbor's gonna hear them right they're like oh they weren't afraid of fucking shooting guns off in the middle of the night last night. No neighbor's going to hear that. Middle of the day, though, they're going to hear some screaming and call the cops. So they freak out and they're like, well, shit, what do we do? So Gillett grabs a pillow and puts it over her head also to smother her. So that way it should quiet her down, too. So Chamberlain says well i'm gonna go outside smoke me a cigarette goes outside for a few minutes comes back inside and uh she said

she watched linda heinzelman take her last breath okay so poor linda heinzelman finally is dead after all of that all of that torture all of that torture. All of that fucking torture, man. So after all that, they decide, well, I mean, what do you think they should do now? Fucking run. Well, yeah, obviously. They decide, let's stick around another day and hang out because we're having a barbecue with Vernon's mother and his nephews. We're supposed to see them. So let's just hang out with them. We'll hang out, and then we'll take off after that.

Plus, Margo's the combination. She might know the combination. What we'll do is we'll cut the bodies up and burn the house down before we leave, obviously. But, you know, we'll hang out another day. Like I said, the opposite of what a normal, sane person would do, they do. Exact opposite. What should they do? Run?

They go, no, let's hole up for a while. Yeah. Get the stuff back out of the truck honey come on we're moving into their bedroom um so by that time uh it was mid-afternoon by the way um this took all morning and hewlett's nephew michael hester who was 17 and michael's 13 year old brother both vernon's nephews mitchell they stopped by after school like they do from time to time stop by to see uncle verne yeah oh that that was unexpected yeah i would say they lived with uh uh carolyn hester who was these two boys's grandmother and vernon hewlett's mother and I believe the sister of

Roger's mother or something along those lines so Gillett and Lisa Jo told them oh yeah Vernon and Linda boy they left town yeah they took off for a couple days they told us to just you know kind of hang watch the homestead you know make sure nothing happens to it

yeah you know they went on down Gulf Coast I know they went to Gamble they they're gonna go out on one of them boats and gamble and uh had a whole it sounded romantic i was kind of jealous to be honest with you i mean it real sounded nice uh hope it hope it helps them rekindle their their love for each other really you know how it is over time it's rough you know the flame burns low sometimes it needs some more oxygen i think that sort of trip is just the right thing for i'm glad we could help them out they've been yelling for us to get out of here but they they realized it was them that needed the trip they really needed the trip so um anyway they go oh okay that sounds fine they believe them there uh they hang out they go with the two young boys they take them to the zoo oh oh yeah

lisa lisa joe and roger and they take the boys to the zoo hang out they uh they play basketball with them they they go to carolyn's house to eat aunt carolyn gonna go over her house to eat okay where after i just murdered her son. That's nice. That's fucking well. They eat supper with her. And the next day is when they take the kids to the zoo. The or yeah, the camper park zoo. And then they eat supper again at her house again that night.

Okay. So when they get back from dinner the second night, they've been there. They've had a long weekend. Oh, this is fun. Like they have. I picture him with like little pennants and like stuffed animals. Like he came back from dinner the second night, they've had a long weekend. Oh, this is fun. I picture them with little pennants and stuffed animals like they came back from an amusement park. Yeah. Oh, boy. Somebody got a tiger. What a fun weekend.

This is great. So they decide we should clean up the house, right? I think, right? So they strip the carpet off the living room floor and they take the bodies into the bathroom. Okay. Okay. carpet off the living room floor and they take the bodies into the bathroom okay um then they said that uh um they took some sleeping pills and that she and gillett went to bed and slept through the night just had a good night you need a good night of shut eye bodies are in the bathroom ain't no big deal the next day was monday one of the boys skipped school and stopped by the house

son of a bitch he's gonna get us caught uh yeah uh so they um chamber they they said that and called stopped by the house they said hold on we just woke up why don't you go over to carolyn's house and uh we'll meet you there okay and he was like was like, all right, sure. On the way there, Gillett, they're just walking over to meet the kid. Gillett tells Lisa Jo, let's put the bodies in that deep freezer he has and we'll take them to Kansas with us. No one will look there for them. So they went over to Hewlett's mother's house, hung out for a while with the kid, and then went back home to prepare the bodies for the freezer, the way they put it. Okay. Now, she assists linda joe

they both do the whole thing they clean up the murder scene she helps move the bodies to the bathroom where gillett oh my goodness takes a pruning saw yikes anybody know what a pruning saw is a pruning saw picture like pointed blade yeah picture like a regular like a saw that you'd picture like a lumberjack sawing a bige with big teeth on it and shit like that. Shrink that shit down. Make it a handle. Make it long and thin so you can grab onto a branch and just saw a branch off a tree quick. A smaller branch.

One handed. It's a vicious skinny blade with big teeth on it. Vicious, vicious, vicious fucking thing to attack a human with. So he takes this and cuts off Vernon's head first. Oh, boy. Removes his head. Then removes his arms as well. And, yeah, Lisa Jo held the garbage bags open while he placed the arms inside the bags.

That's nice of her. She's assisting. The original plan was to cut the head and arms off both the bodies, but I don't know if it was just a hard thing to do or meth people can't be counted on to finish a job or what it is, but after Vernon, they're like, we'll just leave Linda's head on. It's a lot of work. We're keeping them in the same place anyway. It's not like we're putting the head in one state and i mean what's the what's the work it's a lot we're

keeping them in the same place anyway it's not like we're putting the head in one state and the body in another it's all together might as well keep them together fuck it there's more room in this icebox than i thought we don't gotta take them apart never mind sweetheart just pulled them up and we should be fine so uh yeah they do that uh they then turn the deep freezer onto its side so they can roll them in there. So they load the bodies in there, which is. Oh, my God. Interesting. We'll say.

Wait till you hear a quote, by the way, later on. It's fucking disturbing. So they load up the body and then Hewlett's body as well with a black trash bag. They load them into the freezer. They then she taped the freezer shut with electrical tape and duct tape while he stood on top of it to keep it closed. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just

garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts so then they went through the house and gathered up six or seven garbage bags full of evidence the way she put it six or seven six or seven they then loaded the freezer and garbage bags into the truck and left for kansas the next morning with a plan to return at some point in the future and burn the house down not right now that'll draw attention we'll be back we'll burn it down some point so they took

the truck transported the freezer all the way back to kansas they get to kansas that's uh one there it's his father's farm his father owns a farm that has an abandoned farmhouse on it with a barn and all this shit, which is, this is already very disturbing. They take the freezer out to this place and plug it in on the farm. So it's cold. The freeze things, right? So then they took the items and transported them and disposed of the evidence, all those garbage bags at the Russell dump as well. They threw that stuff out. Then they said that they she said, well, I guess he wanted her.

Will you cook some meth up because we need to make some money? So she said, sure, why not? So, yeah, they went. They just they how they discard trash for making meth at oh they discarded at the public swimming pool the meth makings the shit and then the next day in the pool or in the trash i hope in the trash not in the pool the next day um chamberlain and guilt they left the freezer at the farm in the country they drove uh they tried to drive the pickup truck as little as possible because they thought maybe it had been reported stolen and um you know all that shit they stayed with some of his relatives one of

the relatives they stayed with was debbie millum she said that um the truck they used to haul the bodies was stolen and she knew that and she said that after she helped them hide the truck at her father's farm, they hid it in a barn, she also aided them in making a batch of crystal meth. Oh, jeez. This is Aunt Debbie. She said, quote, they both shot up. Then he pulled a gun out and told me if I told anyone what happened out there, he would kill me and my family. Thanks, Aunt Debbie. Yeah. yeah you mean you you mean your cousin vernon um so they uh another couple of friends of his from the area ronnie burns and loray crumbless

crumbless spelled like he has no crumbs too it's hilarious these are former friends of gillett uh they said uh one of them said quote uh he said that he had taken the truck and the owners were in the back. Oh, boy. And he was asked, what did he say he had done? And I guess Gillett had told this man he said he had taken care of him. And they said, well, how? How did he say he did that? And this man replied, something about people's throats being slashed and strangled yeah i knew they was dead all that throat stuff about to ask this psychotic

motherfucker any more questions that's hey give me lots of details would you it's a stolen truck the owners is in the back i don't see them therefore they're probably dead i don't want any more information i'm'm done. They probably did. By the way, the one detail that I'll give you in a minute is just the craziest shit ever. So they had no money. They wanted to get the fuck out of here. They made 500 bucks worth of meth is basically what they did, which is easy to do, I guess, if you know what you're doing. What's your motherfucking plan, sir? I mean, honest to to god what's the point

of all this march 29th in kansas here the uh the couple had remember how they had warrants out for them and shit for drug shit well the cops got wind that they're back in town so your your big plan after murdering people is go where you're wanted that where you have the only place in the country where there's active warrants against you so i mean the opposite where would you go well i don't know not kansas i know that much right to kansas they're fucking morons oh to his dad's farm where the first place they'd look for him too if they were looking for him from another state so uh the investigators had dropped their surveillance after they hadn't seen him in a

couple weeks. They must have skipped town. But near the end of March, they learned they had come back. And so the sheriff's department set up surveillance on a farm a little while out of town. And they started watching him. On March 29th, Lisa Jo and Roger are arrested for drug charges. Yeah. Just drug charges.

That's what they have them on. Now, Chamberlain is questioned later in the day, and we'll talk about her interrogations, but she said she wanted an attorney, and then she ended up agreeing to talk a little bit, and she told him who she was, gave identifying information, and then she declined to answer questions that day. All right, then. So the investigation here, obviously there's a lot of evidence. Shit's been loaded into a U-Haul trailer, driven back to Mississippi by authorities there. And in Russell, law enforcement officers at the Kansas Bureau of Investigation executed a search warrant on the house where they'd been staying in Kansas.

They're looking for drugs. So they end up, they obtain a search warrant. They go in looking for drug-related equipment or material, looking for a stolen white pickup, similar to one that a neighbor had reported seeing on the property. During their search, they find a white pickup with Mississippi tags inside a metal building. They're like, well, that's cool. Then they enter the wooden granary where you know shit's stored there they find a freezer that's plugged in and taped shut they're like there's our meth shit yeah there's our meth shit so they back out of the granary they wait for more people to come with the hazmat suits and all that shit um The guy said, quote, we assumed this was part of a drug lab and that they were making their own anhydrous. That's a meth popsicle.

That's a meth, yeah. There you go. That's a meth go-gurt is what that is. You just let it drip right into your mouth. Toss that right in the freezer. Meth popsicles. right into your mouth toss that right in the freezer uh meth popsicles yep they said uh anhydrous ammonia is one uh one ingredient ingredient in the manufacture of meth and it's generally obtained through and obtained through theft of a farm fertilizer or you can

make it yourself so they thought they were making it so they said they got all their lab gear on and all that shit and uh kbi agents arrived and they offered to you know check that out um we'll go in we have the suits and he said well fuck it go on because those suits are hot fucking get in there then i guess i don't want to load up so they do um they open the freezer expecting meth shit and instead they see a decapitated human body oh jesus that's what greets them um they're a holy shit what the fuck they pull out the body and it's vernon's body and they're like there's a fucking body in here they pull it out there's all the shit and then underneath there's another body it's linda heintzelman underneath him completely you know together still though they open the freezer they see this uh i guess

vernon's wrapped in a brown blanket and then they so then they obtain another warrant to search the farm for homicide evidence body is pulled out of the freezer like we said the linda's body was frozen in fluid at the bottom of the freezer and the fluid had been thawed had to be thawed before it could be removed basically it was three days before they could really get at her good. They said a hewlet had been decapitated. Arms had been severed at the shoulders.

Heinzelman had duct tape wrapped around her mouth and head. A plastic bag was affixed to her head by duct tape wrapped around the neck. Her hands were secured at the small of her back with duct tape. So, uh, the sheriff radioed in to say uh we got more we got bodies it's not meth shit they thought he was kidding and hung up on him back at the police

station like fucking sheriff fletcher's such a big kidder fucking bodies for this we got a cattle yeah we got a rustler happening here uh then he said, it's no joke, motherfucker. Get your shit out here. Oh, shit. We messed up. Get out there. So, yeah, it's a mess. They end up finding seven plastic bags recovered from the Russell County dump. The evidence was included in these bags are Hewlett's work uniform, a pillow, a photograph of the pillow. Why would you take a I'm going to take a picture.

All the murder evidence just so we can remember it by what the fuck a woman's purse a coin purse a cigarette case keys a camera and photos a wallet the remains of Hewlett's driver's license and paperwork a partially completed Mississippi accident report form. She didn't fucking do it. They were right a direct deposit card a hattiesburg phone book and the cardboard center from a roll of duct tape and uh yeah that's a lot man that's that's all the evidence pretty much uh they said we had all the clothing knives and saws we found everything they used during the commission of the crime i was dumbfounded that they didn't dispose of it along the way yeah these are the dumbest fucking criminals ever anywhere um everything identifying the people including like i wonder where they did this at well here goes the yellow pages from hattiesburg why from hattiesburg well here's

his work uniform so we can really find out more about him we even know where he works now um the autopsies here this is a gross, so buckle up for this. And then, like I said, there's one of the craziest, weirdest, funniest things in the world coming up here. So, anyway, this doctor who did this said numerous injuries to both bodies, obviously. Heinzelman had 12 separate blunt force injuries to her head that caused lacerations, mostly on the back of her head. Consistent with being struck by a hammer, by the way. They were hitting her with the hammer, too. Jesus.

She had a large cut on the front of her right thigh, and there were two additional cuts on the hip region on the right side. Several cuts on her neck and abdomen, a scrape under her left eye. Some of the cuts on her neck were relatively superficial. Others went through the skin to the muscle, but did not strike any major blood vessels. This is horrific. They said that Heinzelman died from multiple injuries. She died from the sharp force injuries of the torso and neck. She also died from blunt force injuries of the head and from

asphyxiation, which would be the blockage of air or blood vessels there. Also said that none of the injuries would have killed her individually. The cuts could have caused significant blood loss over a long period of time, but didn't involve major blood vessels. The blows to the head

while causing fractures did not cause actual brain damage. Therefore, while she might have been unconscious right after she was hit, she would not have died immediately from the blows. The tape over her mouth would not have prevented her from breathing through her nose, although a fracture to her neck might have interfered with her breathing. Because she could have survived for that injury for some period of time, they rule it as a combination of injuries. Now,

it's the lack of air at the end. But I guess it took a I guess because she was dying bleeding out. It didn't have the same whatever in the test. Hewlett had several superficial cuts and abrasions on his face, head and neck.

The more significant injuries were to his head above his left ear. There, the autopsy revealed five semicircular lacerations that went through the skin. The lacerations resulted in a large fracture of the skull, approximately four by three inches. That's a huge, that's a huge skull fracture where the skull was actually pushed into the brain, resulting in brain injury. The injuries were consistent with being hit with a hammer. Hewlett also had minor wounds to his arm. They said Hewlett died from blunt force injuries to the left side of his head. So Lisa Joe's in jail.

They're both in jail. OK, Lisa Joe talks to some people and the Forest County Jail. Martha Petrovsky is one person and Marilyn Coleman. They both talk about this. Their fellow inmates, fellow inmates. There you go. Petrovsky. They said that this is what she says that Lisa Joe and Gillett came to Mississippi to sell drugs.

That's what Lisa Joe told her and used the money to go elsewhere. But that the couples at the house had a major blow up over damage done to Lisa Jo's car. This is a story she told this woman. And Lisa Jo got physically involved to the extent of hitting Heinzelman in the head with some object and kicking her in her side. with some object and kicking her in her side. And Lisa Jo also held Henselman's head up while Gillett slapped Henselman and told her he was going to break her if she didn't give them the combination to the safe.

Petrovsky said that Chamberlain told Roger, quote, well, you're going to have to get a little rougher than that, it looks like. You fucking pussy. Up the ante. Now, Petrovsky said it was her impression that Lisa Jo egged Roger Gillett on. it was her impression that lisa joe egged roger gillett on that's the impression that she gave her now we don't know if she's in jail and bragging and being

like i'm tough we don't know um that's who knows uh but this is all we do know chamberlain also told her that right after the murders oh my god when everybody was all bloody and everything had stopped finally they had sex after the murders and uh she said uh um she said that uh that she was caught up in the moment of it and not the sex the uh the murder yeah but she regretted getting caught because there was too many other ways they could have gotten rid of those bodies without being caught that's why not because she feels bad. She's like, I was stupid. Another one, Vanessa Stringfellow, another inmate, testified that she heard in her cell, she was talking to other inmates, and Lisa Jo told them, quote, this is a quote from Lisa Jo,

we cut his throat we propped him up on the couch and his head was hanging to one side and we proceeded to have sex in front of the corpse and it was the greatest sex that we ever had and it was an extreme adrenaline rush what a dirtbag they put they prepped the body up to watch them have sex holy shit we cut your throat the last thing you're gonna see is us fucking on your floor in front of your dying girlfriend well and that's she had to fucking be lying there next to them for that best sex they ever had best sex adrenaline rush while a corpse watches us isn't that hot wow that is that that might be the craziest yeah thing in this whole fucking case so far. She's so sick. Oh, my God. You think?

She's a disaster, man. And he's sick as fuck. They're just the sickest people, and they found each other. There's no one to go, hey, maybe not. Instead, you have someone going, that's all you're going to do, pussy? You can't have two people calling each other pussy back and forth. This is not okay. If you had two teenage boys doing this they'd be like jumping their

bikes off shit till one of them broke their necks you know what i'm saying you can't do this so oh man uh two officers from the hattiesburg police department go to visit lisa joe and try to talk to her uh rusty keys which again sounds anybody with rusty in their name, it sounds dirty. Rusty Keys. That sounds like either a sexual move or like a 1940s jazz piano player. Or a Dick Tracy villain. Or a Dick, yeah. Named after a 1940s jazz player, Rusty Keys.

That's Rusty Keys' best solo hits. Another guy named Terrell Carson, and they said that she refused to make a statement right away. They began, she has five interrogations, by the way. We'll go through them quickly here. First one, March 29, 2004, 5.13 p.m. This is when they were unaware that there was even any homicides. They were talking to her about drugs, okay? She was solely concerned.

They were solely concerned with the narcotics investigation. He began asking preliminarily identification questions. And Lisa Jo claims about one minute into the interview, she said, I won't tell you anything until I talk to a lawyer. So the state, on the other hand, says that she said, said quote is this where i'm supposed to ask for a lawyer and later don't you think i need a lawyer which under the constitution in court neither of those are asking for a lawyer of course and even if you ask for a lawyer they still will question you until the lawyer is there and even then they don't have to let the lawyer in until you physically say i want my lawyer in here again

and then they have to let him in so they can delay it a long time you have you have to know the law put your foot down and say i'm not saying shit till the lawyer gets here fuck you and then they're gonna go well we'll just charge you and lock you up and you have to go right on bye that has to be okay but they try to scare you with that shit so but i'm this i'm happy she doesn't know any better And then they're going to go, well, we'll just charge and lock you up. And you have to go right on by. That has to be OK. But they try to scare you with that shit. So but this I'm happy she doesn't know any better. This is good. So, by the way, this one didn't make I guess they didn't get the whole interview on videotape, the whole thing.

They only got part of it on there. Eventually, she said she'd talk, but then she didn't want to talk. This lasted about six minutes, this interview. So I guess she checked on a Miranda form that she did not want to speak to them, didn't want to waive her right to silence. So this concluded about 5.20. So then they find the bodies that night. Next morning, 9.43 a.m., theym they're like hey let's have a chat yeah shall we um they sit down with her this time don't give a fuck you know we don't give two

shits about the drugs literally they're like there's about meth don't care about that now meth is the least of your fucking problems um yep they said that's fine this is about the bodies and then she was like, oh, shit. So she signed and initialed the waiver that she would talk. This interview not recorded on video at all. Why? Who the fuck knows? They recorded the last one.

So we know that's in the facility to do. They just didn't do it for some reason. They said, though, they do have notes. They didn't audio record it either. Nothing. Just notes. Oh, my God. Which is, it's 2004, guys.

Get your shit together. I'm sorry. They make tiny cameras. You put them everywhere. This is ridiculous. Yeah. So, according to the report, Lisa Jo describes Hullet and Heinzel's dead bodies in the living room of the home, injuries to Hewlett's neck and Lisase and lisa joe's assistance in cleaning the house loading the bodies arrangement of the bodies in the freezer and the inclusion of the black trash see i almost did it again how do you do that i don't know it's one i can't say plastic trash

bag i just can't say it so including the trash stick flash bag so they put them in the freezer the uh interview ended about 10 39 a.m there's no evidence that she invoked her rights during this time but there's also no evidence of anything because all they have is notes so we don't know third interrogation here later on that afternoon about 1 25 in the afternoon this one they do videotape okay they told her about her rights she signed the same waiver. Blah, blah, blah. Okay.

During this interview, she's very emotional, crying on and off, and apologizing to Roger Gillett. Tell Roger I'm sorry. Tell Roger I'm sorry. I'm about to sell him everything. Okay. So she started to begin the details of the day of the murder, but then she started to ramble and ramble and uh she couldn't provide any details and then she said i don't want to talk anymore and it was over and the interview was over in 14 minutes so they had her and then they didn't have her fourth

interrogation okay about an hour later 2 46 p.m we gave her an hour to cool down, catch her breath. So they go in there. This one here, by the way, I don't think videotaped either. This one here is another report. The report indicates that she described the details of the murder from start to finish, including Gillett bashing Hewlett in the head with a hammer, the dismemberment of Hewlett, and finally the bodies in the freezer. Uh-oh. She spoke in detail about how she helped tape Heinzelman's hands behind her back so she wouldn't struggle. And, yeah, they began suffocating her with the bag.

Gillett completed that process. She also said that she would tell the cop if anything else comes back to her memory. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. She's really edging them. Yeah, I would say. They're about to come hard. So the last statement she said is that she'd show them where the trash was dumped inside the landfill. God, yeah, show me everything.

Show me all that trash, baby. Show me where you spread your trash. Yeah, there you go. Here we go. So that's when they find all the bags and all the evidence there the fifth interrogation um chamberlain asked to talk to a kbi agent kansas bureau of investigation just wants to see one she quote wanted to talk to someone and asked to speak to one of the agents they weren't there so then she asked to speak to another guy who was there. Just let me talk to somebody. So I guess, yeah, they she said that they videotaped this one. And she said she gave it. This is when she gave a detailed account of the murders. This is a videotaped detailed account of the murders from from the beginning of it from leaving Kansas to being arrested in Kansas. Okay.

On videotape the entire thing, okay? So, yeah, there's that. She then takes them to the dump to show them where she put shit. That's where they get it. Now, the police have to go back to Mississippi and see what's up there. It's up in Mississippi.

So they are alerted, the Hattiesburg police are alerted that a pickup truck with a Mississippi tag has been found in Kansas, along with two dead bodies that also might belong to your state. Possibly, if you want those. The law enforcement officers ran a check on the tag, found out it belonged to Linda Heinzelman, and they went to Hewlett and Heinzelman's home to check them out. Well, let's see if it's them let's do a welfare check and uh there they find a blue mitsubishi eclipse with a kansas tags and a lot of front end damage yeah rendering it sort of undriveable the house is locked up through a window they can see a ceiling fan running but the house is locked up they knock on the door no. No one answers. Okay. So they're like, I don't know. Then Kansas authorities go, well, you still want to go in there because this is what she told us. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

There's, you know, it's a murder scene in there. You probably want to get in there. So they go back to the house like, Jesus Christ, I guess we'll process it as a crime scene. Whatever. They said the house looked neat when they walked in until they looked down and went why is there no carpet on the ground here there should be a carpet on the floor that's weird not a stitch of carpet in this joint where there would normally be carpet it's just subfloor this is strange so that's weird uh then they started looking a little closer and

noticed blood on the floor blood on the furniture on the mattress in one of the bedrooms is soaked with blood they also find the safe has pry marks in it all sorts of pry marks in it like they've been trying to get it open with some sort of instrument so um yeah they found the safe um but they never got it open the safe actually so finally um they find out through all this obviously the safe is the big hassle so they get the from vernon's mother they get the combination they get the safe open holy shit what is the fucking hope diamond that they have in this fucking safe right that this is the thing of everything it's gotta be uh a very Geraldo Rivera moment. They found papers and documents. Not a fucking one thing of value in that safe.

Social security cards and birth certificates. Hewlett and Heinzelman's birth certificates with some papers dealing with Hewlett's work. You bet. That's it. That's all that was in there. Nothing else. There was like five pieces of paper in there. Nothing else. Not a fucking stitch of anything anything why did they not just open the safe

why didn't you let go there's nothing in the goddamn safe stupid see there you go maybe they didn't expect for them to go this far i i guarantee you they didn't expect them to go this far it's just a tit for tat going back and forth well christ once vernon walks out and sees his fucking girlfriend being raped with a beer bottle bent over a goddamn thing with a chicken bone hanging out of her ass i would say that that point you go all right open the safe for fuck's sake you want our you want my birth certificate that bad you are about to be embarrassed you just did all this for this look at here holy shit geraldo nice job that's exactly what it was the geraldo moment for them you're absolutely right so uh the cop here said it's a case like he's never seen before one said quote i've been doing this stuff almost 21 years i've

seen a fair share of stuff this is definitely one you read about happening someplace else it was a shock to be involved in that's like kind of the small town murder kind of code there. Oh, you hear about stuff happening like this someplace else. Not Hattiesburg, this nice little town. So they said it fits. He said it was so heinous that he hopes they both get the death penalty. He said that, quote, if they invite me down, I'd probably go down to witness it. I would go represent the department. Talking about in Kansas. If they invite me, I'm'd probably go down to witness it. I would go represent the department.

Talking about in Kansas. If they invite me, I'm going to RSVP. Oh, I'll show up. I'll put my best fucking boots on. I'll be down there. So April 7, 2004, Chamberlain waives her right to her extradition. She just waives it and goes. Gillett says, no, I won't go.

He fights extradition. Okay. Okay. Gillett says, no, I won't go. He fights extradition. OK, so the bond for Lisa is two million dollars, by the way, when she gets back to Mississippi. The what's her name? The mother, Vernon's mother, said, I'm happy. That's a good thing. They're not going to get out. And the prosecutor said she's definitely a flight risk and the case is under continuous investigation.

We very well may upgrade the charges to capital murder at this point okay now he's in kansas gillett all right may 9th 2004 there's an escape attempt in kansas at the jail why are they always trying to get out him and a 17 year old kid named pj switzer jr yeah what'd he do oh my god jesus christ um yeah i guess he was being transported by an officer schmidt this is switzer was being transported from the exercise room in the jail where he had been doing his homework because he's a high school kid right to his cell about 7 30 p.m uh this guy schmidt, said he made sure Gillett was locked in his cell before taking Switzer to Switzer's cell.

Schmidt weighs a six-foot-tall, 255 pounds. He said that during the transfer, this 17-year-old kid tackled him and took his radio. Wow. That is some sorry shit. Maybe less Krispy Kremes. For fuck's sake, that's not 255 pounds of muscle if a 17-year-old physically overtook you to the fucking ground and stole your radio from you. Holy balls.

So he took his radio and flipped the electric switch to let Gillett out of his cell. Wow. And Switzer took off. Schmidt's not injured in the incident, but highly embarrassed, I would sure fucking hope. A little bit. off schmidt's not injured in the incident but highly embarrassed i would sure fucking hope so this uh schmidt was able to get to a phone and call the dispatcher to notify law enforcement about the escape and uh both switzer and gillett were caught within two minutes uh having they never got outside the walls they got outside of all that never got outside the actual off the property um schmidt said he later received an apology letter from

schwitz from switzer and uh for his actions they sent him a little i'm sorry my bad yeah now he's gonna be here i mean you know how it is in jail ain't nobody won't be here if you weren't getting paid you won't be here neither would you roger wants to fight extradition okay they said that they're fighting extradition on these grounds. This is the legal ground. Okay. That only the only link between Gillett and the state of Mississippi, him ever even being there and doing all this comes from Lisa Jo Chamberlain, who's a co-defendant. All right.

So Chamberlain's statements are, quote, unlawful and inadmissible because it's uncorroborated testimony of a co-defendant, which is not it's uncorroborated. So and so they said it's unlawful and inadmissible. And the extradition warrant signed by the governors of Kansas and Mississippi is therefore moot because that's not right. The judge, though, denied those arguments and sent guilt the fuck back to mississippi to stand trial he said you've got to be kidding me it took him like three minutes to come up with the fucking with that one don't think so get the fuck out of this state now yeah here's your board and pass there you go chief here's your greyhound so the trials come up here and uh they're tried they were jointly indicted on two

counts of capital murder now by the way death penalty on the table uh the court granted chamberlain's motion for severance from gillett okay she's going to try to play a way different card than he does obviously and they can blame each other if they're separate that's the other thing it's good for both of them so lisa joe uh here uh in her trial first thing she wants out is her statements that she made to the interrogators obviously let's let's let's get rid of that so um yeah she said they they showed the video in court to see what happened and her attorneys were saying look at her she's coming from a clear methamphetamine high she's on a whirlwind of emotion.

She's wiping her nose constantly, running her hands through her hair. She's all fucking methed up. We can't count this. And they said, well, she was in jail for like fucking 16 hours by this point. So it's not our fault that she was coming down from meth. That's not our fault. She wasn't high.

So the jurors end up being able to see this. It's an hour of videotape made by them a huge difference between her appearance in court and on the tape by the way right you know like a week's long meth bender and in like nice clothes and shit she's in a pantsuit now in court um she doesn't have her hair all bleached anymore now it's brown shoulder length uh you know her complexion isn't all spotty and with fucking scabs on it anymore so she looks normal uh they talk about the five interviews and um she's trying to claim that she tried to invoke her right to remain silent in the uh in the second

third fourth and fifth interviews but they kept going uh She says KBI officers violated her right when they reinitiated the interviews with her the next day. They said that she argues that all the statements made after the first interview should be suppressed because she asked for a lawyer. She never got it, and they came back to talk to her. That's how it works. So the state argues that her right to counsel was not violated because she made an ambiguous request for counsel and that the officer made appropriate clarifying questions.

The trial judge finds that she confessed voluntarily and that such a confession is admissible as a findings of fact. As long as the trial judge applies the correct legal standards, his decision will not be reversed on appeal unless it's manifestly an error. So you're in. The video recording of the first interrogation shows that the guy was in the midst of asking questions when she said that she wanted an attorney. And then he said, OK. And then she eventually said she'd talk. That's how it works. The trial court found that her questions concerning an attorney were ambiguous as a matter of law and that investigators took all appropriate precautions to determine the nature and extent of the ambiguity ambiguity and that the defendant voluntarily and without coercion agreed to proceed and further answer questions. So that's what they said.

Now, evidence they bring in here. Now, evidence they bring in here, Lisa Jo argues that the evidence was recovered as a result of information obtained from her statements that shouldn't be allowed in. So it's fruit of the poisonous tree, they call it. That's legal terms. That's what they call it. So they said, you know, nothing should count at all. I'm good. Cross my arms now.

The judge says, oh, absolutely not. No, it's all coming in. You don't want to testify that's totally cool it's totally you're right but we are going to have your you in court talking to the jury we're going to have your words yeah for hours then we're going to line everything up and show them all the evidence and then they're going to be totally into that it's going to be a lot of fun so we're going to have one of those and uh yeah there's that so the trial goes on they have all the evidence all of her statements all the physical evidence that backs up her statements it's she's fucked i mean yeah she's fun she should have pled to this if possible this is a case you plead guilty to

and hope they give you and hope for life because you're fucked you know what she thinks she was gonna get well she's gonna fight this and get it get away get off with nothing is that what she thinks she was going to get? Well, she's going to fight this and get it. Get away. Get off with nothing. So I think she did. She thought maybe she could blame it on him. Probably. You know, I mean, out of her mind, he thinks he could blame it on her.

So I think that's what they both think. The jury, after about an hour and a half of deliberation, which isn't very long, they find her guilty of capital murder. Now, sentencing her psych background comes up and this is some interesting disturbing shit in her background though they're trying to get her off the death penalty here um it's apparent that she was basically the way the psychiatrist puts it quote it's apparent that abuse and neglect were a central part of chamberlain's life as a small child she saw and experienced abuse physical a physical verbal physical and sexual something which chamberlain described as

normal normal for kids to be abused that way all the time darling no she said the abuse came from men and women family members and non-family members alike. The abuse also continued into adulthood. This is the way the guy puts it as her childhood. Quote, In Lisa's childhood, she was abused in multiple ways. Her biological father was physically abusive to her. He was also physically abusive to her mother. Her parents divorced when she was about three or four, but he had abused her severely.

Lisa's mother was bipolar, had bipolar disorder, and she was also a severe alcoholic, which is great for bipolar. That's just a whoo, man. She also physically abused Lisa. And yeah, Lisa was physically and sexually abused by her brother, her half brother. That is, this occurred when her mother would be out doing what she did in terms of being with men and bringing men home so her mother would go out to the bar to pick guys up and then her brother would be molesting her at home i did also mention that lisa's mother also verbally abused her according to lisa's friend veronica in whom lisa confided during those early

years and she also uh her heard this herself lisa's mother would call her a slut and a whore and say quote you're going to grow up and be just like me a slut and a whore that's what she said so she called herself a slut and a whore while yelling at her daughter calling saying you're going to be just like me i do right wow talk about i mean there's not you don't need to go very far for the psychology on that one. Jesus Christ. So her mother also got remarried. So she had a stepfather. That stepfather, of course, physically abused her as well. Because the mother's going to pick awful people. Also abused his own daughter, who was Lisa's stepsister in the fourth grade. A the her fourth grade teacher sexually abused her. Oh, my God. What?

her fourth grade teacher sexually abused her. Oh my God, what? Yeah, not only her, but other girls in the class in the process, and it did come to light as well, and the guy ended up getting in trouble for it and all this type of shit, but this apparently deeply impacted her performance in school. No shit. Holy shit, if you're physically afraid of all of your teachers,

how the fuck are you supposed to do your work? If you're physically afraid of your home, home life, then where you go to escape that to be safe, you're being abused there just as bad or worse. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. So, fuck, man. The Dr. Smallwood, this guy's name is, which is a terrible name for a Dr. Smallwood. Good God.

By the way, I found this one case. It's a case we're not going to end up doing, but I wanted to do it just because the guy's name was literally Richard Johnson. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Then I found another case where the guy's name was Richard Woodcock. And I'm like, why are you naming your kids Richard, everybody? Stop. Think for two seconds. Especially if your last name already has a phallic description already.

Two dick fucking references. Woodcock. Yeah. Why would Two dick fucking references. Woodcock. Yeah. Why would you do it? Now you're Dick Woodcock. That's terrible. But that's an actual guy. So the doctor was asked in court how this history would impact her relationships with men. And this is what the doctor said.

This is, oh, she. It's a female doctor, Dr. Smallwood. Quote, I don't know, Smallwood, I think of a guy with a little dick immediately. Can't help it. I was so struck as Lisa told me about some of these abusive experiences with me in her early life, particularly her stepfather. In one breath, she would say it was a good relationship. And then the next breath, she would talk about being beaten and strangled. And then she would say it was a good relationship again.

I was his favorite, she'd say. That's called cyclical. Wow. This poor girl. You can beat her. But I mean long as you go all you're my favorite oh he beats me the best that's so sad man and what happened through those times that lisa came to expect abuse to be a normal thing that's just the way it was so she continued to become engaged in abusive relationships with men and really kind of saw those as normal. Also, even though she'd been sexually abused, she also devalued herself to the point that she did act out sexually and had not just ongoing relationships with certain men, but casual sexual relationships.

And these were, I believe, direct outgrowths of the type of learning that she added as a very young child about her own worth and about just whether she had the right to have anything else happen in her life. They asked her if she was an antisocial person or a psychopath, and the doctor said, Lisa has certainly lived an irresponsible lifestyle. She's made some very poor decisions in her life, so there are elements of the diagnosis of antisocial personality that does fit the criteria.

Due to that irresponsibility that I've already mentioned to you, that she was a meth addict for basically 20 years, if you've ever been around or had someone in your family who has a drug addiction, you'd know that when a person's living that lifestyle, they're extremely irresponsible, and the addiction to a drug takes precedence over even people they love. Yeah. So she does have those characteristics in that she's made some very poor choices. However, when it comes to the element of interpersonal callousness, we sometimes think of with someone who is a true psychopath so that the person really doesn't have a conscience or they really have no remorse or they aren't connected with people even through. I mean, you've been sitting in this courtroom and you've been horrified by the evidence just as I was when I had to wade through it all, all of it at discovery. So there's certainly some horrible and callous behavior that went on there. So kind of remember when she leaned down and screamed in a woman's dying face.

Why aren't you gone yet? Yeah, that's some psychotic antisocial behavior. And said, put this in your butthole. Right. Put this in you. Yeah. That's crazy. this in you yeah that's crazy so yeah it's crazy so uh also for herself she had two former jailmates as character witnesses as well um so there's that uh also her mother twyla spear is her name by the way twyla Spear, is her name, by the way. Twyla Spear, her aunt Loma Wagner, and a long time that one of her friends was there. Sherry Norris, who was in jail with Lisa Jo, testified that Lisa Jo gave her a food and a blanket and comforted her when she was in jail.

And saw Chamberlain shortly after Chamberlain talked to her oldest son, Gabriel, and said that Chamberlain was crying because Gabriel had gotten into some trouble. oldest son, Gabriel, and said that Chamberlain was crying because Gabriel had gotten into some trouble. I would say you'd be acting out if your mom was a meth head who you never see and now has been arrested for a double murder. You'd probably act out from that. A Carl D. Benetto was also in jail with her. She said she developed a friendship with Lisa that's continued even after Carla got released from jail. She said that Chamberlain gave her good advice and she thought that Lisa Jo could do the same for other people. She testified that Chamberlain loved her children dearly. And both of these people asked both of these ex-prisoners asked that the jury spare Lisa Jo's life.

Linda Heitzelman's father, on the other hand, said, quote, a quick death by lethal injection is too easy for Chamberlain. For what they did to Vernon and my daughter, they should die slowly. Oh, man. Oh, boy. So the jury here, they said, quote, we find the deaths were heinous, atrocious and cruel and done for the purpose of avoiding an arrest. You, ma'am, may fuck off death penalty by lethal injection so yeah she gets that three hours of deliberation to get to that that's fast she has a state she makes a statement afterwards after that they let her make a statement she says

quote i just want to apologize to the victims of the families i'm very sorry i know that know that you won't get to spend Christmas or Thanksgiving with your children, and my family will. I don't have any hate towards any of you for what my sentencing is. I feel that I deserve that, and I just want to say that I'm sorry. She's been like this since she's been in court. When the first bond hearing, Vernon's family was there, and she came in and turned to them and said, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, in the middle of a bond hearing, which no defendants do that because you haven't been found guilty yet. You're not even on trial right now. She burst into tears screaming, saying she was sorry, sorry, sorry.

She's got fucking problems. I think meth is her main fuel. I think when you get her off meth, then she's probably a lot different person. It's certainly exacerbating and not helping not by any stretch you can't be on meth if you're gonna do shit like she did that was sick that was all very very sick so she's taken to the state uh penitentiary um they said quote uh this is the uh a writer said quote there are people who've been on mississippi's death row for more than 20 years this is his i'm sorry is her attorney. I don't know how long this case will take, but I would expect the appeals process to take years. Yeah. Yeah. So Rogers trial quickly.

They brought the freezer in and put it in the middle of the court for. Oh, my God. What? Yeah. Brought it in. Put it right there. Said you want to be stuffed into that you with another person. How about you and your significant other stuffed into that you with another person how about you and your significant other stuffed into that freezer that's what they're saying to the jury put a whirlpool right in the middle of the courtroom right there put this freezer um so they said quote they uh they meaning gillett and chamberlain were mad they were both very angry at linda something about linda wrecking lisa's car and you know going on like that was like that was their big deal. So doesn't take a lot because she's her whole interrogation is in this.

So, I mean, he's fucked. He's fucked. That whole videotape is played here. He's in deep shit. So he is convicted of capital murder as well. During sentencing for a pastor from the University Baptist Church told jurors that he met Roger Gillett through the prison ministry. Don't care. He said Roger wanted very much to be baptized.

Well, good. He can see if heaven's real after we kill him. That's fine. And I don't like again, we hate the fucking death penalty and all this type of shit. I just I want to fucking personally strangle this asshole. That's what I'm saying. Are disgusting. There are terrible, terrible people these people but i mean again this is all you know it'd be fine to just put them in forever i'm sure but

and we'll find out why because we always talk about the money spent on it isn't even if you want the death penalty most of the time you're not going to get it because the the legal hoops are so much and these people don't fucking do it correctly so if they don't do it correctly they leave a legal loop open they have to fucking an appeal it's going to come down you can't kill someone all the on appeal these things get turned over all the time 20 years of court costs we all have to pay because you guys want to feel good for five set not you out there but whoever's doing this wants to feel good for five seconds and go we got justice that's great and all and as you know my family my great-grandmother had a and if you heard the details of it you go well that's a death penalty case we didn't want that that wasn't florida in florida yeah tied an old lady to a

chair ransacked her house and cut her throat that's that's for yeah because she wouldn't tell her where the money was because she didn't have any yeah that's pretty fucking open and shut but this lady got like 20 years she was 20 years old and a crackhead and we were like well what the fuck were we gonna fight this for that it's bullshit so not worth it anyway moving on that's just my that's how our family handled it and all that shit you can handle it however you want but either way um so uh roger's faith is absolutely genuine this man says i believe fully that his life even in prison can be a benefit to many people many people oh yeah um his mother came up and said when roger was a small child my brother was an alcoholic he was more like my son than my nephew oh this is his aunt i alcoholic. He was more like my son than my nephew.

Oh, this is his aunt. I'm sorry. He was more like my son than my nephew. It's very hard for my family to have to live through this. This is Marcia Gillett. And the district attorney, though, said, quote, lots of, because they talked about his hard childhood

and all this shit. He said, quote, lots of people have hard times. Does that separate you from anyone else? All I saw today was people who knew him i think everyone in this court can get a group of people together to say can you spare his life which is true everybody can bring five people up there going i don't want i would like him not to die everybody's got that i've probably got three or four you probably i'm sure a bunch so we have probably more than that just by just for selfish reasons of wanting the podcast. But hey, look, can you do it after Friday?

Because I really want that express to come out. So are we getting Patreon this week? So, well, we appreciate you wanting it. So the the family said, quote, this is Carolyn Hester, who's Hewlett's mother, who they ate dinner with. She said at first about him, I don't really want him dead. I want everything taken from him. OK, then once she he got convicted, she said, I feel fantastic and relieved, relieved, relieved. And she said it's bringing a lot of closure.

Mary Heinzelman, who's Linda's's mother said it's the greatest thing to ever happen i hope he gets what he deserves so um in that they uh they do end up giving him what he deserves the in the thing they come back and say you sir yeah may fuck off death penalty for you too he had no chance no if they got her they're getting him yeah the justice system gives women much lighter sentences she's getting death for violent crimes yeah absolutely he's gonna get double yeah he's getting that and yeah absolutely so 2008 that's statistically by the way not anecdotally the statistics say that 2008 and we're fine with that actually i think women are more rehabilitatable than guys are.

I think sometimes guys just want blood, and that's all they need and want forever, and it's not going to stop. So 2008, she appeals based on her statements being let in and some other bunch of horse shit. And they go, no, you're fucking fuck off. No way. It was a clean case. You're out. there was a clean case you're out rogers appeal on the other hand the court uh rejects his argument that his decision to freak to flee kansas in the couple's truck was unrelated to the slayings that's his argument that is not that they have the murder has to be in the commission of a robbery of another felony so he's saying to get away that was that was unrelated that whole thing we could

have taken the truck without killing him is what he's saying. So the prosecutor said that, well, that's funny. You fled the state to cover your tracks and hide the crime. Seems pretty obvious. The Mississippi court said that it was one continuous transaction there. That's what they follow, that logic to it. It was all one big thing. It's not like this was a month later or something. So they tell him to fuck off.

Now, he goes to the Supreme Court of Mississippi, and the high court here ends up hearing his whole thing. It's about the aggravating factors to support the death penalty. One of the aggravating factors they listed was his escape from jail. Okay? That was in the aggravators yeah the problem is that happened in kansas yeah oh that didn't happen in mississippi you can't use that as an aggravator here they said because he hasn't been convicted of it it's just a thing that has so can't use it as an aggravator they in, in a six to three decision, the Supreme Court decides that because that was used as an aggravator, death penalty is thrown out. That's the point. Resentencing.

You can't do this. That's what I mean. That's what I'm saying. It's ridiculous. So he is resentenced to, you sir, hey, fuck off again. Life without parole. So he's sent away. And she remains?

life without parole um so he's sent away he is offender number 133700 in case you're looking for him in the state of mississippi lisa is currently the one and only woman on mississippi's death row holy shit she is still there so i mean who knows what will happen with her but um because they didn't fuck up and try to get her on some escape charge. That's it. They didn't. And, I mean, she could now, I don't know what kind of appeal she has left, but I don't know if she can then have a proportionality thing of how can this person, who actually basically essentially pulled the trigger, smashed in the skull,

did the cutting, the strangling, the beating, how can they not get death and i get death which is a lot of times how they'll end up getting it that way thrown out so either way that's how it works and uh gotta be so grateful that 17 year old tried to escape yeah no shit thank you oh he'd be yeah thank you otherwise fucking idiot you fucking dildo junior thanks a lot pj shitbag junior thank you so that is hattiesburg mississippi one fucking hell of a weird twisted crazy goddamn case right holy shit what a disgusting murder absolutely hideous and awful you can't get any worse than that that is just that's one of the worst i've ever heard of well they tortured that poor woman for three days they fucked in front of her everything else it's disgusting

it's the whole thing is gross they sexually attack her they fucking mentally physically verbally get your shit together mississippi fuck man holy shit all the i don't even know how that could be avoided because i feel like even if they put in for the insurance coverage and did all that they wanted, they're also crazy meth addicts. So they might just snap and kill you because they think you did something wrong. Who knows? They're clearly capable. Yeah. That's Hattiesburg, Mississippi, everybody.

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I don't even know. Shitload of them on there. 150 or so. I don't know. There's a bunch on there. Check those out. We have this week for Crime and Sports, which you'll get. We're going to talk about the downfall of Coach Bobby Knight, who was the most kind of iconic.

I mean, he won national titles and he was the the man as a college basketball coach whole time he had this terrible temper he treated everybody like shit and then it finally bubbled up to where university couldn't ignore it anymore the publicity was too bad and it was starting to cost them money and they had to fucking finally let him go and it's a whole it's it's a wild downfall it's like in one year he went down like on a like clark griswold and christmas vacation fucking shot down a hill and then for small town murder we're going to talk about some interesting shit we're going to talk about some prison shit we've had a lot of people ask us to talk about prison stuff so we're going to talk about an almost 30 year old documentary

on hbo max god it's so good it's so good called Lock Up Rikers Island It's the most real Rugged fucking raw gritty It's kind of what documentaries Later on in the late 90s were like Oh shit we gotta be grittier than that We gotta do that I mean that's a real gritty documentary

If we're not doing that It's like regular TV like it's bullshit So it's wild They're gonna talk all about some nasty shit and then also we'll talk about some other prison stuff from all around kind of weird quirks and different states have different stuff maybe we'll get into different countries

it's crazy stuff get all that patreon.com slash crime and sports like we said anybody $5 or above is going to get that and a shout out and oh but it'll also get you a shout out is going over to PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. That'll get you on there as well.

That said, Jimmy, hit me with a list of names of people who would never, ever, ever, ever assault me with a chicken bone. Hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Cody Leversig, John and Susan McQuilkin. Happy birthday, Brittany. No last name but if you need to know who you are you are melanie's jimmy to her james that should give you enough clues because that's all the information i have you're the drunk one that's adam jones jordan bennett rebecca aubrey will and maddie weed saviors of Detroit. Do you remember them? Yeah, I do. Wonderful people. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Dakota Plain, Paul in the UK, and our other producers this week are Corporal Carl Kirshner, Peyton Meadows, Peyton Meadows, isn't it? It is Meadows. Robert Hortelling, that's a fascinating name. Hortell, please.

Happy Hour, taking his life into his own hands on a cruise ship. Darren Michal and Jess Stope just got married. Happy marriage. Congratulations. Happy marriage. We're the reason they know each other. Frank, the South African bird washer.

Janice Hill, Diane Taylor, fighter of the night man, James. That is day man, correct? The day man, obviously. Clearly. Yes. Jeremy, Marie Nuss, Oladipo, Jibawu? Jibawu.

Oladipo. That's all I do know. Because I watch basketball. Donald Bowles, Jason Zeke, Mike Welshans, Eaton Beaver, I hope you're proud of yourself, Emily McCarthy, Tom Regan, Lisa Ross, Todd Elliott, Jamie Hama, John Boone, Michael Doney, Catherine Bartolomucci,

the Mooch, that's who it is, Ann Rieger, Daniel the Concert Photographer, Jake Hamm, Malik Delfish, oh boy, Chris Lynn, Chris Lynn Stewart, Matthew Boone, Lee Frenzy, Eric Lemons, D Thad Art, Cassie, nope, that's just Cass Robbins, Dark with no last name, Lieutenant Dan's Legs, Kyle Oliver, Rebecca Caporos, Chris Richter, what is it? Capicol. Dr. T. Jr., Daniel Davis, Alec Craig, Hannah Szulowski, Courtney Forrester, Aaron Nelson, Taylor Nakakehara, Teresa Von Eberstein, Dave Henry, Alice Cordova-Potter, Roger Won Bunn, Janice Trufant, Bosco with no last name, Sissy Romero, Corey Euling, Jamie Stevenson, Maja Lindberghs, I think, Logan Ryan, Madison Borth, Cleed with no last name, Bethany Latch, Jordan Rasch, Connor Fugate, Sandra Stalke, Peter Della Penna, Kalen Kala Bodnovich, Eric Honesty, Kermit Paddock. I think it's Honesty.

It may have been something else, and that was corrected to that. I don't know. Kermit Paddock, Jeff Wyman, Dustin Huffman, Maddie Fitzgerald, Nicole Rhodes, Rain 55, Nikki Jamison, Alicia, Alicia, obviously. Did you say Dustin Hoffman? Dustin Hoffman. The poor bastard. I know.

You could use that as some marketing somewhere. Dustin Hoffman will be there. People will show up and be like, who the fuck are you? I don't look like him or anything. Devin T, Melissa Hardman, Andre the Midget, Rissa Rue, Jeremy Underwood,

Marissa Bourse, Megan Press, Amanda Schmitz, Jennifer with no last name, Randy Warmeister, Mr. Pyro, Bacchia Macocaro, Yeah, you got it, Jimmy. Joseph Luciano, SG, Kyle Henley, Lizzie Miller, Joshua Gray, Adam Vasquez, Bridget McLemore, Robert Goins, Cindy Ross, Brandon Zuni, Katie Mertes, Sarah Warren-Aver, BigPimpin25, Haley, Tegan, Lucas. Those are all first names.

Scott Fox, John Moravetz, Plays With Scissors, John Carey, Amy Bella Belter, Sarah Mack, Matthew Pierce, David Gillespie, Guido Pudi, maybe Putty. I don't know. Beth Farrington. Oh, boy. Farrington. Laura Blackberg, Locke Holmes, Heather Guthrie, Brenda Dunn, Ja Crow, yes, Noah Marsters, Sebastian Hartley, it's really coming undone, Lisa Cordova Gomez, Pamela Doyle, Michael with no last name, Johanna Simpson, Jade Freeberg, Katie Johnson, Lance

with no last name, Michael Ross, Diana Sigsbee, Z411811. Could be somebody's employee number. I don't know. Erica Clifton, Lola M., Ryan Wheeler, Tiffany Custer, Stephen Sowell, Jason Barham, and Brian and Stephanie Kirchhoff. Thank you guys so much, especially you and also all of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you thank you wonderful wonderful people we appreciate every goddamn thing you do for us more than you could possibly know thank you so much honestly all worth it thank you you really do it's everything thanks for coming to the live shows we love to see you so much out there we've had we've had a

blast so far doing these live shows even though the road sucks once we get on stage with all you guys we're like this is so worth it this is great we love it so thanks for hanging with us and if you want to find us a little more on social media very easy to do that you can just a google small town murder podcast hosts there's only two of us god damn it and here we are and uh either that or just go to shut up and give me murder.com where there is links to all that stuff the show social media our social media everything you could possibly want keep doing it keep coming back god damn it and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free

with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.