Small Town Murder - #287 - STM Express - Meat Cleavers & Ham Fishing - Ham Lake, Minnesota

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

This week, in Ham Lake, Minnesota, a teenage romance takes a strange turn, when both parties marry other people. But that doesn't stop their passion, as their affair eventually leads to a son, the divorce, in both marriages, and a chance to finally marry each other. But all is not well. When their secret son doesn't want to be adopted by his new (but real) father, bitterness grows in the home. After a few years, it all comes to a crazy conclusion, that the whole town will never forget! Also, one of the strangest ways murdering several people has ever been described, by the murderer!!Along the way, we find out that Honey glazed ham season is in the spring, that bashing up cars because you're angry is never a good idea, and that sometimes it's just easier to let your father adopt you!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. Choo-choo. All aboard the Murder Express. Here we go.

The murder train is pulling away from the station. Here we go. Very quickly before we get started, because we have obviously an insane show today, as normal. Very quickly, shut up and give me murder.com is where you get anything, like tickets and merchandise and all that sort of thing live show stuff get it all right there and patreon.com

slash crime and sports is where you get all of the bonus material and oh my goodness are there so many there's like 150 shows in the back catalog on patreon you're gonna get access to everything five dollars or above gets you access to crime and sports bonus material, small-town murder bonus material. This week, the two episodes, you're going to get the downfall of Bobby Knight, the all-American national champion, you know, everything coach that screwed everything up with his temper. And we'll talk about it. There's some kids with some finger marks around their neck that would like to talk about him. PTSD. Speaking of finger marks, for small-town murder, we are going to talk about some. PTSD. Speaking of finger marks, for Small Town Murder,

we are going to talk about some prison stuff. It is going to be pretty gross. We're going to talk about the very disgusting Rikers Island documentary that we've talked. So many people have asked us to talk about that on a bonus, so we said, let's do it. And some other weird prison stuff that people, a lot of people have requested this,

so we're going to do it. It's going to be pretty gross. Get all of that and more at patreon.com slash crime and sports. And of course, you'll get a shout out at the end of the regular show. It comes out on Thursday. So here we go. Let's get into this. Okay.

Let's clear the lungs. Yeah. And shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's head out of here. We are heading up.

We're coming from New Jersey last week. And we are going to head to the upper Midwest, you could say. It's up top here. We're going to go to Minnesota. Let's do it. We haven't been to Minnesota in a while. Land of lakes. That's a lot of lakes.

And this place, no exception, Ham Lake, Minnesota. Ham Lake. Ham, H-A-M, not even a double M, like a Ham Lake, Minnesota. You can reach. So it should have called the Great Salt Lake. Ham Lake. No shit. Well, this place is different.

You can take a rowboat out there with your son or your daughter out there, and you guys can just reach on in with your bare hand and pull out a ham. It's really beautiful. It's a beautiful thing, you know what I mean? Just with your bare hand, Jimmy. You don't even need a pole. It's abundant. Dinner served, pal.

This is the rum ham here. Yes is rum ham lake minnesota it's only a half hour outside minneapolis too but it's like extremely rural it's almost like there is yeah there's there is not a connection to minneapolis here this is like where you go on vacation to get away from minneapolis for the most part've got a ham lake house? That's the thing. People who live here more now, but as we'll talk about, the population grew very quickly. Earliest settlers here go back to 1855, the first white people that came here,

and they named it Glencarry, which is a Scottish name meaning beautiful valley. And they advertised it all over the United States as a future city come here oh you know we're building this awesome city this is amazing oh it's wonderful and then um that was kind of uh well in 1857 a prairie fire destroyed everything so you know when that happens it really kind of wipes out the everybody left fire was a detriment to humanity it was bad some time and so well before you could really pump water out to put it out too but i mean imagine

someone had a brochure like a year before and they're like i'm saving up and i'm heading here everybody and they're showing around the brochure and they show up to a smoldering heap of nothing and they're like well this isn't what they advertise what happened guys shit this isn't cool vikings come through here so for 10 years or so nobody was there anymore it was just a ghost town of smoldering somebody absolutely packed everything and moved there to find it all black you know they did what the fuck and i picture them looking at the picture in the brochure and then above the brochure at just, it all burned to the ground and then back down at the brochure. Are we in the right place?

Did you take, what, let me see that map. Hold on a minute. What angle did they take this from? This is crazy. This looks like shit. This looks terrible. So then Norwegians came. In 1866, a Norwegian man man came he was the one guy not

plural not plural a norwegian man showed up and he's like this looks good and he just sat there and they were like very nice and then other scandinavian type people followed and then everybody ended up being large tall and blonde and that's why minnesota that's why this area has a lot of those people. This Norwegian man, his dick was sore. Let me tell you something. He had to really lay some seed. This is the original Johnny Apple seed of the

area here. He just really spread it all around here. Johnny Apple bag seed. Oh, that's the guy. So, early 1900s, potato farming was at its peak here. Just farming some potatoes. And then there were sod farms, I guess. Is that grass?

Are they growing grass? Yeah. All the golf courses of America were laid with this place. With ham sod. That's beautiful. Ham sod. It didn't become a town officially until 1974. Really?

Yeah, officially. That took a little bit. Incorporated, yeah. A hundred fucking years. So, well, we're going to see how it goes here. A fire could come at any minute, everybody. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. So, the motto of this town is convenient country living.

Okay. Yeah. So, that's, I don't believe it for a second. Median income here is high. Because if you're going to live in a burb and that's on a lake it's going to cost you a little bit there's yeah there's plenty of flatlands to live in in minnesota where you don't have a lake view so it is median waters nearby it's so expensive median outcome or medium household income here ninety thousand dollars a year which is well above the 54 000 average median home price 422 700 holy fuck so yeah it's a it's expensive kind of a you know nice suburb on a lake with a filled with ham so a lot of people

are going to want to be here a couple reviews real salty meat is abundant who's not going to come um very quickly we'll do a couple reviews and we'll get to the story here so um here's like a five star ham lake is the perfect location for quietness but also has quick access to nearby areas well i would any nearby areas i would hope have quick access yeah it shouldn't be a long time to get to nearby should it how is it easy to get to farther away areas farther away areas a real day trip to get to nearby shit it's so weird it is quiet and not too busy or loud well yeah you just said it was quiet so we get it here's a three star ham lake is odd okay i'll believe that it's a small people of it definitely what i'm. It's a small town. Some of the people have it, definitely.

That's what I'm saying. It's a small town, and the businesses we have here are just plain weird. There's a cowboy church. I'm not joking. It's called Cowboy Church because apparently a lot of cowboys live here. Okay, well, I guess so. Right in the nose, then. It's an on-the-nose thing. It'd be funny if it wasn't, if it was like the super gay-friendly church in town.

It was called the Cowboy Church. Every once in a while, a guy comes in with a brochure and a big 10-gallon hat, and he's like, am I in the wrong place? And he looks at the brochure, and he looks up, and he looks down, and he looks up. I'm in the wrong place. Shit. Is this the Cowboy Church? Why are you dressed like a pirate, sir? You know what? I kind of like Madonna. I'm staying. Fuck it. Shit. Is this the cowboy church? Why are you dressed like a pirate, sir?

You know what? I kind of like Madonna. I'm staying. Fuck it. He's just dancing. Ham Lake Park is gorgeous, though. Well, that's terrific. Here we go.

And one star. The water is contaminated, has cancerous properties, and all the well water, all the well water, very racist area. the water's racist the water's racist apparently which is there's a lot of racism but i didn't know it went that deep that's it's in the water that's it's that's something else else right well i guess if it's all contaminated with cancer and shit makes it making everybody racist i don't know um these people are crazy james what are these i don't know. These people are crazy, James. What are these people?

I don't know what's happening up here. I'm believing that something's wrong with the water. Here's one star. Jimmy, listen to this. Quote, I'm reading it exactly as it's said. Quote, I was promised food, but I got slapped with some ham 20 minutes ago at a gas station. Not funny. What is happening in this town this place is crazy

this place is fucking crazy it's just a holy fuck man now population deadwood minnesota it's insane in 1970 there was like 3 000 people here so it was a small little kind of lake community now there's over 16,000 people here. So it's swelled a lot. And that said, let's definitely talk about this murder. Right away. If it's anything like the town, it's going to be insane.

That's what I mean. When you start out with all of this, where else do you go? I was promised food. I was promised food and instead was slapped with ham at a gas station for some reason, which I don't know where. That would be weird if you went to like the gas station Taco Bell and they slapped you with ham. I'd be very strange and unexpected because they don't even sell ham.

So that'd be really weird. Fascinating. I can't get enough of it. I know. I wish we had an extended town version on this one but now we have to get to the murder now uh for this murder okay uh the whole the drama takes place in 1978 but let's let's set it up to build up to the late 70s all right let's let's set a set the table here and find out some just bonkers shit that's going on with these people. Okay.

First of all, Donald Manfred Carlson we're going to talk about first. Old Donnie Carlson. He's born in 1929. Yep. So he's, you know, what, 49 years old in 1978. So we'll talk about how he gets there. He met a young lady as a child, mind you. You know, small child elementary school. He met a young lady as a child uh mind you very you know small child elementary school he met a young lady named joan okay and he they date as teenagers joan he and joan and

they're it's you know it's it's young minnesota love they're just they're going down they're watching the it's the running of the hams you know they watch them when the hams mate on they all run up on the shore and mate and they go back into the water it's it's a thing it's the running of the hams you know they watch them when the hams mate on they all run up on the shore and mate and they go back into the water it's it's a thing it's romantic you take your girlfriend you hold her hand in the 50s minnesota johnny and june with donnie and joan that's that's what it is it's beautiful it's young love you know it's beautiful john cougar mellencamp's taking notes somewhere watching him jerking it whacking it with one hand, writing down lyrics with the other. Holy cross.

Jesus Christ. That's how he writes lyrics. What do you want from me? That's what I've heard. Now I'm convinced and you can't convince me otherwise. No. He watches teenagers humping cars while he whacks it and writes down wholesome lyrics about kids dating and getting

married and living a good life with white picket little pink houses and white picket fences and you know tasty freezes and everything else and that's how he got meg ryan and then he ends up with meg ryan because she's into that she's like yeah it's it's wholesome but also kind of filthy i think that's that's her whole brand isn't it it? It is, yeah. I'm super wholesome, but then, you know, back in the day, she'd be like, but, you know, you get me behind closed doors, I could be gross. I will spit all over your balls. I'll do some gross shit. It's all good. So they date as teenagers, these two.

Like I said, they're hanging out. But they never, they drift apart or they don't end up making it a permanent relationship well they don't get married we'll put it that way which for high school sweethearts in the 50s is kind of like if you were dating one person that's kind of how you did it because in the 50s people would date different people all the time like that was just the way it was unless you were going steady with somebody and then it was basically you're going to marry that person you know as soon as you graduate so different though so joan though ends up marrying a different boy oh she marries

a boy named burke nelson now by the joan's name is nelson also by the way they're not related at all she didn't even have to change her name didn't have to change her last name maybe that was the allure of the whole thing is you know hey fuck it this is super easy and yeah not at all so um anyway she married a guy named burke nelson and um i was lucky to i had to look a little deeper but thank fuck they're not related i was like please tell me she didn't marry your cousin this is i can't deal with another story with somebody's like married to their cousin or something this is crazy this is this story this week i specifically looked for a story that did not take place anywhere near a trailer as well

i was like i'm i'm over i'm overloaded with these trailer parks right now we got lake houses i feel like i'm just you know we're overwhelming these poor people in a trailer park i feel terrible so we're gonna we're gonna move along with some people that are having a you know sitting by their lake house on the porch, sipping a cool drink instead of struggling with their poop bucket on the front porch of their trailer. When your house has axles, it's going to be issues. There's going to be some things happening. There can't be stability.

The house isn't even attached to the ground. The house isn't even stable. That's what I mean. How can it be stable? You could roll away at any moment yeah this isn't good so uh anyway 1953 is when joan and burke were married and then in 1954 old donnie carlson here he marries another woman as well so i guess that was that right i mean young love you grow out of it and you marry different people and you grow apart

you become someone else you move on that's maybe you run into him in 20 years and you laugh about it what could have been isn't that funny yeah that's funny we'll both be divorced by then and we have a great weekend somewhere i'm so happy with my husband with old burke here you know we have such a wonderful life beautiful children i just you know but it's great to see you it's been wonderful don Donnie. Excellent. Okay, we'll get together. No, yeah, we'll get the whole families together.

It'll be wonderful. Absolutely. And you never talk to that person again. That's how it works. Instead, what ends up happening is both of those people get married. Don Carlson, he gets married to another woman, and they even have two daughters as well. So they have kids and everything while this

is all going on Joan and Donald are still fucking the entire time what yeah instead of just marrying each other they both married other people and continued to fuck which is the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard in the history of

relationships I don't understand you go out break up make meet other people marry them and still fuck like what just get married why didn't you just get married to begin with what are we talking about which one has the hang up about the other person because they both do yeah that's the the other they both do their book because this goes on for years jimmy this isn't just in the beginning of the thing by 1960 it's still going on wow she's been married for seven years she can't take how much he leaves the toilet seat up i don't know what the magic of don carlson is but he must have a like a he must his dick must be like a snake to

a snake charmer she must be able to just blow on a flute and it'll make her you know it'll make her explode because this is crazy for i don't know what her deal is before and especially back then this was i mean jesus christ this would have been scandal if you know if this if they got caught holy shit jesus christ small town over this is like what your parents want you to do is find somebody that you're passionate with forever you know what i mean you adore them they clearly give a fuck but that not enough that's the only thing i can think is like maybe they were convinced that other people were better for them you know like oh like this is this guy's a better provider you should really marry him or you know his name's nelson not for nothing or you know with him who knows you never know what influences come who the hell

knows especially back then i think it was pretty easy to influence you know, with him. Who knows? You never know what influences come. Who the hell knows? Especially back then. I think it was pretty easy to influence, you know, kids in their early 20s to marry people. People seemed to just get married on a whim back then and stay together for 60 years. Who knows? Maybe the sex is just so good and they're just like, yeah. It has to be. Yeah.

Because that's what they have. Great sex and the rest of it is awful. It has to be the sex because they keep the sex up. they have sex and the rest of it is awful it has to be the sex because they keep the sex up as a matter of fact by 1960 now mind you um joan is still married to burke and he's still married to his wife uh joan gets pregnant finally uh problem is it is donald's oh yeah it's donald's kid um yeah they don't know he doesn't know that of course the burke nelson has no clue of this he said wow after six years of trying finally we were we're having a baby yeah um yeah it doesn't realize that it wasn't exactly his so uh she has a son joan does named blake i guess they do donald

and joan together have a son named blake um just raise Blake, Joan, and Burke like nothing happened. Absolutely. Like nothing fucking happened. Like what's his name? The reporter that's supposedly Woody Allen's kid. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ronan? Yeah, yeah.

Frank Sinatra's kid, obviously. Ronan Sinatra? He delivers all his reports in a croon and, you know, says, I did it my way, sweetheart. All right, then. Like, gives you like a, lights up a cigarette. Yeah. Lights a non-filter cigarette. Entirely opposite face of Woody Allen.

Everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. I think that's what's going on here. How you doing, sweetheart? And he's like, wow, this is strange.

This is fascinating. I mean, good God. So this is crazy. So the son, Blake B. Nelson here. I think it's Blake Burke Nelson. So finally, 1972, Joan gets a divorce from burke okay blake's 12 for christ's sake i mean this has gone on way too far uh and 20 years for 20 years by now also donald's been divorced from his wife for some time now of course yeah so it's at this point that Joan decides to move in, her and Blake move in with Donald.

Okay. And they're going to be a family. So they get married. This is your new dad. No, seriously, for real. I know people say that. No, he's actually, we can take a blood test. He's seriously your dad.

What? So it'll be real easy for you yeah this should be a good adjustment see how much you guys oh why you even look alike you know why that is because that's your real father okay dinner's ready everybody dinner's ready what the fuck don't complain some kids don't even have a father there's people in vietnam being killed right now shut up to get along and everything's fine it's because he's yours because he's by absolutely yours um well i guess donald knew the whole time oh yeah of course he knew the whole time she told him but just nobody told blake about this little thing here so uh blake wasn't informed about this, as a matter of fact, until Joan and Burke split up. Oh, my God. That's when she sat Blake down and said, OK. You know how you're really sad that dad.

Yeah. Isn't that terrible? Because he's not. Yeah. Actually, that man, you don't even have to see him on the weekends. He's not your dad. What? No, he's not. Really? But he's not really but i use it oh god

not only is our family breaking up but that's not even your dad that you thought was your dad isn't that great not only is your fam listen it may feel like your family's breaking up but it's not it's not it's actually the opposite i'm actually reuniting you with it see it's not. It's not. It's actually the opposite. I'm actually reuniting you with it. See, it's going to be better because I've been lying to you your whole life, obviously. But now I'm going to bring in your dad who's also been lying to you your whole life. But now he's your real dad so you can forgive him and everything's going to be fine. So there's no emotional damage. How do you deal with that as a child? I don't know.

I ask you this question because it's always the, you didn't meet your dad until he was in his late 20s. Is this better? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think this is worse right here. You'd be like, what the fuck?

I've got a real wholesome leave it to beaver happening around here. Yeah. In comparison to this fucking disaster jesus fuck so blake by the way is livid about this angry he does not yeah this isn't like ted bundy was made jane oh you this will make a serial killer like the fact that blake has not because i looked it up trust me the fact that that Blake hasn't gone on a fucking horrible murder spree is a miracle. I is a testament to this person's fucking intestinal fortitude to be able to say on the straight and narrow because this is how people are fucked up big time. He's so angry about it, though.

And even as a 10 year old, this isn't even like, you know, he goes, goes you know you lied to me and runs away and slams his door and then you know a couple hours later everybody eats ice cream and he's like come on slugger you know let's go out and play some catch and he's like all right dad you know and then they run outside it's not that at all this is he's fuck you and fuck you and then fuck you tomorrow too this is bullshit you really gotta piss a 10 year old off for him to hold a grudge that's the thing 10 year olds forgive pretty easy you know not that fuck not this that's what i mean you really have to do something extreme like lie to him about who his father is for 10 years and then be like no it's this guy now everything fine. And then try to dress up a tragic situation to him and frame it as a nice thing.

Because don't worry, you don't even have to call him stepdad and have a guilt about it. Because he's your dad. It's real dad. And you'd be mad at everybody. You'd be mad at mom. You'd be mad at your real dad

for where the fuck were you. You'd be mad at your old dad for why are you such a moron for not knowing that. Like, you'd be, as a child, you're just mad at all the adults for this. You don't even have a place, a target for it. You know, for your rage. Always.

So Donald tries to, once they get married, Joan and he, once Blake's about 12 years old, 11, 12 years old, Donald says, okay, let's heal this family let's i mean i want to adopt blake as well so that way you know because on his all of his paperwork he's actually belongs to the other guy so he said i want to officially adopt him since he's you know mine and all that and blake at 11 12 years old says no i don't want to be adopted no thanks you're not adopting me um i don't think so um and just wants nothing to do with it he never gives in either this kid wow he never ever acquiesces to the adoption ever it's just that's that um this goes on through the 70s basically from 72 to 78 is blake not wanting shit to do with Donald, essentially. And there's reason for it, too, as we'll talk about here.

This isn't, you know, dad's standing there with a fishing pole in his hand going, come on, son, I got an extra pole. I stringed it up. I got the bobber on there and everything. We'll stop and get some night crawlers. I hear they're biting. Like, I hear the hams are biting. Let's get out there. i hear they're biting like that's i hear the hams are biting let's get out there let's go pull ourselves a fucking honey glazed out of the fucking shallow end nobody's saying that

thanksgiving's coming up son no that's not happening here no because apparently now donald ends up being like pissed off at blake for not for rejecting him rather than understanding this and you know you'd have to chip away at that ice block you'd have to chip away at it's your bad not his not the not the kid's bad so you got to chip away at that and just kill him with kindness and hope that he comes around what a story poor blake blake you're thinking of the ramsey kid i know you are well the dad's name was burke you can't do burke and blake you can't do that and i think his name is blake burke that's the other thing blake blake's middle name so that's interchangeable burke blake blake burke that's the other thing blake blake's middle name so that's interchangeable

burke blake blake burke same shit who cares whatever fucking pretentious b name i don't care so so by 1978 this has deteriorated to the point where blake doesn't even want to see um now he's 18 and everything he doesn't even want to see uh donald anymore wants nothing to do with him so there's a reason for that like i said it's not like donald's been sitting there with his fishing hat on going come on son and he's saying fuck you dad out the window and then like throwing an m80 at him this is wearing an anthrax shirt yeah fuck you dad with like his long hair flowing flicks a lit joint at him from the fucking window lights the lights cf80 with the joint throws it at him and then flicks the lit joint flicks the lit joint that's a that's a

bridge yeah yeah fuck you dad and he like hurls an empty jack daniels bottle out there not even while he's in the window. It just flies out from nowhere like it was thrown from the middle of the room. Not that at all going on here. It's just up in the ante on anger. Yeah, no, this is Donald's an asshole. So by March 1978, Joan and Blake leave Donald.

They leave the house. Joan has had enough. Blake has never wanted any, so he had enough when he was 11. Long before we came over. Yeah, he had enough when Led Zeppelin III was released. He's got plenty to deal with here. So they go to live with Joan's parents. At least they have a place to go.

That's good. Joan files for divorce. Okay. And through the early part of 1978, this divorce is going through. She obtained a restraining order to keep Donald away from her. And there are reasons for this, absolute reasons for this. Now, his relationship with Blake was terrible, obviously. Obviously, yeah.

Blake wants nothing to do with him, so he's like, well, if they don't like me, I don't like him. He's immature about it. Like I said, he's against him. So this is fucking wild. He thought that Joan did not disciplineake at all and felt that she interfered with all of his attempts to do so you know okay which i'm sure his attempts were not constructive you know what i mean yeah it's the 70s it was punishment and screaming yeah i tried to hit him with a big stick and you got in my way fucking bitch like that's not my arm every time i grab the belt

yeah it's ridiculous jesus christ said i wouldn't hit him with the buckle for christ's sake jesus you fucking baby how's that ever again i meant it i meant it all right i see he still got the mark on his forehead i ain't forgot it that's what's going on it's it's this is crazy so he thought that you know she was babying him and all that sort of shit and his form of discipline is it's it's this is crazy so he thought that you know she was babying him and all that sort of shit and his form of discipline is it's different let's just say on one occasion blake parked his car in the driveway okay his own car blake's car parked in the driveway obviously this is i mean you might as well walk up to donald yeah and kick him right in the balls. How dare you park in the driveway? Yeah.

Wait. You parked a car in my driveway? Wait. You put a car. In the home that you live. Where it goes. You parked a car. Where it goes.

Hold on. Oh, wait a second. What, are you going to drive on the road next? I've had it with this fucking kid. He's done. Yeah. No, he parks the car in the driveway. Now, Donald didn't like it when he parked the car in the driveway.

Yeah. Blake, your car goes out in the street. So rather than going in the house and saying, hey, Blake, move your car out of the way, please. You know, as a parent would do. Can you move your goddamn car, please? Even a pissed off parent. Move your fucking shit box. Even a bad parent.

You little asshole. Move your shit box. a bad parent you little asshole move your shit box that would be considered mean he takes it a step further donald and uses his own car donald's car donald gets in his car and uses his car to push blake's car sideways off the driveway you can't do that he just fucking rams it and fucking and moves it off the driveway into the yard there's damage to the car oh he fuck yo he put his both cars he put his goddamn fucking front end into it and pushed it you can't it's crazy sideways too which skips and jumps and there's a lot of bang with the metal not good a lot of shit's bending and creasing yeah i mean he's obviously that's going to give a that's going to tell you not to park in the driveway. That's insane.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence Welcome to the small town of Chinook, at your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder

rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. That's not the way. Another time, this is another, this is wonderful. Blake damaged Donald's stereo in the house somehow.

I don't know, who knows how he damaged a stereo. Anything could happen, right? So Donald felt, and he expressed this feeling far and wide that blake did it deliberately oh this little bastard broke my fucking stereo and he meant to do it yeah he hates yeah he put the tape in he knew it would eat it he knew it was gonna happen he knew that that song he knows pink floyd the wall will blow out the lows and my fucking speakers if you have it to that setting he knows where to put the equalizer he's a fucking bastard i'm telling you remember that equalizer yeah little switches well that's i was thinking of 70s shit like yeah everybody's house growing up your parents had their 70s stereo

set in your house as a little kid in the 80s, and they all had that equalizer that you'd play with, and you'd make guys go, as they sang. We all did that, right? My stepdad was a dope and just put it all in a V. He was like, it'll sound fine. It's all equal. I hear it's a V formation is what you're looking for.

Shouldn't you listen to it and see how it sounds? Keep it in the V. It's all highs. No bays. If you don't keep it in the V, I'll do this, what Donald did here. Okay. He went outside and smashed all the windows in Blake's car. What's with him and the car?

Okay. Well, that's everything to a kid. That's the kid's symbol of freedom and every i mean that's you damage a teenager's car and that's the way they get out of their house in a rural area like this you're you're crushing them the fucked up part he's beating the shit out of it that's the thing is yeah how's he then you have a fucking damaged car sitting in your yard because you pushed it off your driveway devaluing your property yeah it's not even he smashed the windows which is crazy that's yeah that's crazy at a level at a nine out of ten it's what he used the instrument to do it that takes it to an 11 here um he used a meat cleaver

to smash the he ran outside holding a meat cleaver over his head like a psychopath screaming and yelling about his stereo and proceeded to the car hack like a fucking maniac all the windows of his car until there were none left with a meat cleaver that's wild wow you know what i mean just yeah holy imagine you're the neighbor what's going on i want to know was it the closest thing to him or did he like rummage through drawers and find that i don't that's yeah this will do it this will smash the wind i guess because it's big and heavy yeah i just imagine being the goddamn neighbors imagine just being fucking herb i hear bite what's going on out there what is that ah christ it's it's just fucking uh it's the donald i don't know he's got a meat cleaver and um i don't know he's

smashing all the car windows again yep again it. Did he, like, come home from ham fishing and he had the meat cleaver ready to carve up lunch and saw the speakers fucked up? That's got to be it. Everyone around there keeps a ham cleaver in their car, probably, I would imagine, just in case. Well, that's how you got a ham. Yeah. And you're supposed to, you got to gut it down at the lake. Yeah, you're going to take it home. Yeah, you got to get that out of there so obviously john i mean jesus christ just those bones it's a pile of them down at the

lake so full of ham bones full of ham bones ham bone fucking alley over here so now this is crazy obviously donald has lost his shit here i don't care what's going on the answer isn't run outside and smash you know push a car off the driveway with your car or to smash up windows with a meat cleaver that's never gonna be like oh i understand that a good rule of thumb is whatever behavior you do, make sure it's apologizable. Or proportional. How do you apologize to hacking up windows with a meat cleaver? How do you apologize for that? How do you make up?

No matter what, it's like, that was crazy. You can't make, they might forgive you for doing it, but then at the same time, they're always going to think you're out of your fucking mind insane. You can't ever erase the insanity of that act so um to take it to take crazy level up a notch more we're at 11 now let's take it's on a scale of 10 we're already at 11 let's take it to a 26 okay shall we how do you go further well uh he went around. Donald didn't, mind you. He goes around and tells pretty much everyone he could. Everyone who would lend them their ear for a moment or two, he would tell them a little story, an angry story, actually, that he's getting divorced. And the reason is, yeah, that kid's a little bastard, obviously. Never wanted me to adopt him.

I was trying to be nice to the kid. Next thing you know, I got to hack his car up with a meat cleaver and did i tell you that jones fucking her son yeah they're fucking too yeah that's right blake and joan are just fucking each other and that's gross so i'm getting a divorce from him because you know there's a reason why he don't want me to adopt him it's because he's fucking his mama what yeah that's what he's saying. He's spreading rumors of incest. He's telling everyone in town and everyone they know that that's what's going on here. Yeah, absolutely. And he will stick to this story fucking forever.

Wow. So ad infinitum here. It's happening. In perpetuity. In perpetuity. So, I mean, this is just the tip of the iceberg, too. If we had a full length, we could go into some other weird shit. But, I mean, there's just weird shit going on for years. What the fuck?

This is the craziest. This is the craziest stuff that's happening. So, yeah, it's weird, I would say. Things are precarious, to say the least. I mean, I know three incidents. How does he not look in the mirror and go? Obviously, I wouldn't want me to adopt me. This is no.

What am I? And if you were if you were going through a divorce, you would want to make it as quick and as let's not have a bunch of shit come out here, because if if this stuff starts coming out in a court of law, in the sober light of day of a court of law, you hacking up Blake's car with a meat cleaver is not going to look good it's just not right you're going to look like a scary guy period thumbing through the mail that the mailman just gave you while telling spinning a yarn about your wife banging her son yeah you don't want that that's the other thing

neither you hear my wife was fucking my son yep Oh, for years. There's a reason why my marriage ain't working. I'll tell you why. Well, you had a used car sale. Oh, my God. Jesus, fuck. So by August of 1978, she's got a restraining order against him. The divorce is in full swing. The divorce is meant to be, it should be complete by the end of August.

Okay. The divorce should be all done. They'll be legally done and done from each other. So she is hanging out in August of 78 here with Glenn and Gloria Faye Nelson. Now Glenn is her brother, Joan's brother, Glenn, and then Gloria Faye is

his wife. So that is Joan's sister-in-law. Glenn and Gloria. Glenn and Gloria, her brother and sister-in-law. So she, Gloria is 38 years old so um yeah anyway so she's a little younger than uh than Joan so um it's her younger sister obviously so anyway um Joan Carlson and Blake have been living in now she's Carlson she was Nelson they've been living in Minneapolis with her parents, by the way. That's not in Ham Lake. She's been living in Minneapolis with her parents during the divorce. But this it's August 7th. She's at her sister's house in Ham Lake. It's a nice, nice lake house

here. She visits her brother and sister in law. It's a it's a Ham Lake cottage. Oh, yeah. Sounds relaxing, doesn't it? I mean, the birds are tweeting outside while you're pulling in a 15-pounder. All wrapped up in foil already. Smoked. A 15-pound smoked ham already wrapped in foil, ready to go. Pineapple and cherry in there. Honey, get the applesauce ready. We're grabbing something.

Get the vegetables whatever people eat with ham i don't know i don't like ham so you hate ham i fucking hate ham dude it's just a salty mess but i love like prosciutto i love like quality pork oh i love love them ham and swiss oh shit so good i get where you're going, the salt and the bitter, but I can't. Mustard, lettuce, tomato, onion. Oh! No ham for me, thank you. Anything but ham. Anytime somebody says cottage on, I don't give a fuck where it is in the country, on a lake. Cottage.

Sounds good. Tells me it's fantastic there. It sounds beautiful. Yeah. It sounds quiet is what it sounds. So they're hanging out at the college. At the college. At the college at the college at the cottage the college is loud it's hanging out at the college they're shit-faced they just did a

fucking a shot from between a girl's tits and now they're ready to do something else if there's a polar opposite of cottage it's certainly college it's certainly college so he's they're taking it easy there's a wedding coming up this weekend it's a relative's wedding so they're all kind of together gathered hanging out the wedding shower is the next day so they're like oh christ we got to go to that and that's coming up so it's one of those it's a family you know get together type of deal so um donald carlson by the way at this point lives just a few blocks away from here really in ham lake yeah they in Ham Lake, and then she moved back to Minneapolis with the parents. So this is just a few blocks away, but there's still a restraining order in place and everything.

But he lives legally far enough away. Right. And he's not welcome at the cottage. No, he's not welcome there at all. So August 7th, 1978, he, Carlson, lived in a house. 7th 1978 um uh he carlson lived in a house he had a roommate uh john fossy and fossy had two sons which is that that's who he lived with so he had a roommate with his friend and his two kids there and it's it's only a few houses away but in a legal distance there so um this day august 7th about 11 a.m donald phones a a bank trust officer so he has a trust that's like

a bank account that he can take money out of but it's also a trust so it's got different rules and all that shit so he calls the trust officer and he's angry on the phone with the trust officer because he felt that joan took money from his bank account for expenses or for whatever the fuck I don't know so the trust officer said that might be true actually there's some whatever and Donald was mad but he wasn't like

he wasn't meat cleaver in a fucking you know meat cleaver in a Chevy mad he was different type of deal well the bank officer described him as quote rational and intelligent and seemed to be completely in control of his emotions frustrated yeah he's frustrated but he's like god damn it but he's not like i'll fucking murder everybody he doesn't freak out yeah he doesn't you know slam i don't know the phone didn't really hang

up it ended with just bashing until i heard like weird noises and then he was just dead after that i don't even know so uh by 5 p.m he's he's been basically seething all day he spent the spent the day seething as one does yeah 5 p.m he calls a neighbor and tells this neighbor a woman uh that he believed that joan had a boyfriend just he's talking he calls this woman up to talk some shit about joan just to gossip yeah and he's like you know she's fucking her kid well in addition to that i think she got a boyfriend i think she's had a boyfriend for a while and as a matter of fact in addition to her son and her boyfriend i'm pretty sure she's thinking about going back to her ex-husband as well oh my god so this lady on the other end has to be like okay um boy yeah you know

so much about her life jesus christ so at about 7 p.m uh the donald's roommate the fossy guy he was leaving the house and uh this is amazing this psychopath fucking donald is has watching joan from a few houses away with binoculars ew that's what fossy why he's he's like i'm gonna take off donald and donald's like all right see you later he turns away from the binoculars whoa um are you bird watching kinda my ex bird well they said well he said what what what you doing yeah pal like why yeah what's up with the binoculars and he stated this quote yeah jones down there again quote why doesn't she leave me alone one of you she's not the one with the binoculars one of you has high-powered binoculars staring

out the window and the other one is going about their business with their family oblivious to your presence so which one are you sir one certainly is leaving the other alone oh my god so at that point he's so angry he slams the binoculars down and opens up a bottle it's a fifth of it's described in court documents as 160 proof vodka now that is i that's that's ever clear yeah i don't know what i don't know i've never heard of 160 proof vodka vodka i've never heard of 80 alcohol vodka vodka's 80 proof 90 proof you know what i mean it's not fucking 80 alcohol 160 proof is that's like that's like grain alcohol that's that's what college kids will pour into a punch bowl they'll

pour like three spoonfuls of it and it'll get 46 people drunk it's that shit either that or like a hillbilly just swigs on it while he hangs out on the porch one of the two while he lays down because he can't walk because he can't walk because he can't walk anymore well that's what he's drinking he opens up a fifth of grain alcohol and begins making screwdrivers with it so he's mixing it with orange juice here there's no mixer that makes no palatable no way to drink that no you could drink you could have a battery acid and moonshine fucking cocktail and you you'd be like, whew, that moonshine's strong, isn't it? You could fucking taste it.

It would still be the thing that hits you harder. Can't even feel my feelings tingle. God damn. Ooh, that smell. You're better off with that shit just like cutting your belly open and pouring it in there just so it doesn't burn as you drink oh yeah get sick get sick the other way fuck it so he from seven to nine drinks the entire fifth of moonshine or grain alcohol or whatever the fuck

you want to call it gasoline gasoline here as he drank he sat there seething drinking the whole thing watching her with the binoculars the whole time how dare she make me just this sounds ridiculous by the way this sounds like a soap opera or like some kind of weird movie where you're like he's just sitting there what's he got just a bag of funyuns and a fifth of fucking moonshine staring at the binoculars this watch tv this is the 70s was this sex that's how good it is i think he's just a psychopath is what it is i think he's a real lunatic who has never been able to let go of this chick since they were 12 i think that's the problem and uh he's got some problems really great though somebody must just for them to keep coming back right so now he's watching them through the

binoculars joan and her relatives were preparing a dinner for themselves here. Late dinner. Blake had several friends over as well. There was Blake. He had a few friends and all this type of shit. He said that he began to as he's drinking, he began to think about Blake. And as the way he put it later, Blake's,'s quote absolute defiance of him all the time he's just seething and getting drunk not good how dare he not like me when i behave like this listen

drinking and thinking not a good combination no no you need to be like drinking and watching something silly or drinking and eating or drinking and fucking but you can't be drinking and thinking yeah drinking and forgetting drinking and thinking bad he said fucking, but you can't be drinking and thinking. Drinking and forgetting. Drinking and thinking bad. He said, the more I watched, the madder I got. Yeah. Oh, boy. Why are you watching?

Then he said, then he started thinking about the restraining order that Joan obtained against him. How dare she restrain me from her, even though I'm a dangerous lunatic. He said, quote, I felt felt bad i felt hurt and i felt defiance and i thought you know i just i just got you know hurt and mad it's called rejection that you're processing you're about a 49 year old man you should learn to live with this shit by now by 49 you got to be able to process rejection it should happen a lot by then and we all should be used to it by 49 you should certainly learn that there's some people that don't want to be around you probably yeah they always say like there's countries that have uh you know you have to sign up for military service or there's no sign up it's just you know

mandatory military service i would like in our country what we need to i mean people can argue that or debate that but i think everybody everybody from your on your 18th birthday you have for once a month for the next three months you have you have to do one open mic comedy night each time you have to go up there not knowing what you're doing and do 10 minutes not 5 10 when you're done with that you will be able to deal with anything life has to throw at you anything women rejecting you jobs not working out your way and you'll go well i mean shit it was better than that time i told something that i really thought was coming from the bottom of my heart and a guy told me to suck a dick when i was done saying it and screamed it at the top of his

lungs and then threw a shot glass at me in a silent room of 40 people one man told me to eat a dick yeah and no one people were on his side they were nodding and everybody said yeah please do please so anyway at this point he said he's hurt he's mad so he takes he puts down his his drink here once it's done and puts down his binoculars and trades them for a shotgun and a revolver. Oh, boy. Okay, he loads them up. He puts more shells in his pockets for later. You never know. And he drove to a driveway.

He's like four houses down. But he got in his car and he drove into a driveway next to the Nelsons' house and parked there so they wouldn't see him pull into their driveway. He then walks up to the screen porch where blake is there blake is in the screen porch and uh he just points the blake the gun at blake's head he said he was feeling hurt and defiance and he just shot blake in the fucking head without saying a word just walked up pulled the shotgun on him and blasted him so on the porch just nothing no anything um, and blasted him. So on the porch. Just nothing.

No anything. Apparently, no one saw him come up until the shotgun shot fired. And then everybody turned around. Because there's a bunch of people. Holy shit. There's like eight, nine people in the house. So there's a lot of noise, and people are talking, and there's cooking going on. Blake's friends are still there?

Inside, yeah. Oh, my God. Blake was out on the porch. So the first shot hits blake right in the neck and he's dead within minutes it's it's it's fatal it's just you know close shotgun blast uh joan being a mom runs over to blake yeah even though there's a dangerous man with a shotgun she goes and oh my god my son and and covers him up and tries to help him so as a good parent would or any parent i would hope and then she uh he fires a second shot which hits her in the neck oh my god this severs

her spinal cord and she falls backwards and a third shot again she's she kind of uh it hits a chair behind her only a little bit hits her so So it hits the chair. All three shots were fired within five seconds. Boom, boom, boom. I mean, it was that fast. He just went in. At this point, everyone in the house, eight, nine people scatter in every different fucking direction. People are jumping out of windows. I mean, this is wild.

So Gloria Nelson, Joan's sister-in-law, hides in the kitchen. She didn't get out. She just hid in the kitchen. So at this point, he drops his shotgun out in the lawn, Donald. He throws it down in the lawn. Done with that. But he walks in and shoots Joan in the back of the head with a revolver. With the revolver he had from a distance of about two feet.

The problem is the phone rang that's how he knew she was there the phone rang she went over to it and fucking it was a neighbor saying i heard shots over there is everybody okay gloria said call ambulances and stuff please and that's when he saw her fired or fired at her twice and uh hit her in the left side of the chest and the shoulder. And then she turned around and left. And then he turned around, left the house. That was it. He saw other people outside, saw other people that he could have shot and didn't even fucking do anything.

Didn't bother. Didn't bother with the bystanders. He wanted her. He wanted her, that asshole kid who rejected me, and that fucking bitch sister-in-law of hers that they sit around fucking talking shit about me all the time. That's what I think he was saying in my head. How dare these motherfuckers. Meanwhile, he's telling everybody that she's banging her son. What the fuck, man?

No matter what she's saying, they're at least even because he's saying the most horrible thing you could imagine. So unless she's saying he was fucking the kid, that's the only thing I could imagine that could be equal. So the police are en route to the scene. He's walking away. By the time the police come across him, they don't know he's part of any of this. They're just coming saying shots were fired. They hear that. So he flags them down.

Yeah. He's a few houses down. He points over down toward that house and he said, quote, and I quote, Jimmy, there's a crazy black man with a shotgun who just shot two people. He's crazy. He's crazy. You got to get him. Crazy black guy down there. Absolutely insane.

He's just got a shotgun shooting up all the nice white cottage people it's crazy you gotta see him the amount of times that's been said after these kind of things happen yeah after a woman pushes her kids in the lake it happens so they said that he smelled slightly of alcohol which i would think he'd smell more than that he should have been flammable but he's such an alcoholic he appeared normal to the officers even though he drank a fifth of grain alcohol, he seemed reasonably normal. And when someone's freaking out, hey, there's a guy. I mean, you can pull it together. The officers go, thanks, and they rush to the house. Thanks, hero.

Yeah, thanks. Oh, boy, that heroic drunken man in the street really pushed us to the right place, and we'll get that black guy. So they get to the house where Glenn Nelson is there tending to his wife, who, by the way, she'll be fine. His sister-in-law. She'll end up going to the hospital. Yep. She'll end up going to Fridley's Unity Hospital with two bullet wounds and come out of it just fine. I mean, I'm sure she's got problems, but she's alive is what I'm getting at.

So good for her. So Glenn Nelson's there, Joan's brother. And he goes, it's not a there's a fucking black guy. It's that asshole who fucking you saw. I saw him talking to you in the street. He's my ex-brother-in-law. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this is down.

Yeah. Four houses down. So they don't get him until the next morning. What he. But in the time that they went up to the house and Glenn said, the guy you're looking for was the guy in the street, they somehow lose him in that amount of time. Holy.

A guy so drunk that I don't even know how he could walk, never mind aim. So anyway, they find the shotgun in the yard. They find a pistol. He threw that over in the yard, too. He didn't even take it with him. He just tossed the pistol as he left. It looked like he just came down the steps and threw it in the yard. They find a pistol. He threw that over in the yard, too. He didn't even take it with him. He just tossed the pistol as he left. It looked like he just came down the steps and threw it in the yard. Like they're untraceable.

Yeah, like toss that away, and they'll never find that. So early the next morning, he was at a neighbor's house, and he asked the neighbors, Hey, I'm kind of wanted for murdering. You've heard about it. Yeah, it was pretty big news down our street here. Call the cops. Tell them I'll be here waiting for him. So they take him into custody,

and he's interviewed by the police investigators. They tape everything. They give him a Miranda warning. They do all that shit. It's all taped. He discussed his actions in detail, just like we just told you. And the tape was made.

Everything's going. In in the tape by the way he says this is one of the crazier statements we've had and we've had a few in this episode he said yeah i understand that ambushing my wife and son with a shotgun is kind of a quote no no but no no i think the understatement of the year goes to murdering my wife and son with a shotgun is i know it's a no-no i get it that's the understatement of the year a no-no a no-no that's you're having a cookie while your mom's making dinner that's a no-no you know what i mean murdering you know multi-generations of a family is not a no-no. That's a whole other issue. Not even borrowing the car without permission is a no-no. No-no.

That's even too far for no-no. Breaking the stereo is a no-no. That's a no-no. That's a no-no. I would say that's a parking in the driveway. It's a no-no. I've told you to park in the street. Close range with a shotgun.

We're out of no-no territory. It's beyond no-no. We're in the holy shit holy shit territory yeah absolutely not so he gives the set he gives the whole statement then refuses to sign it like that matters you know what i mean so i don't want to put my name on it i'm not signing that so they make copies of the statement in the tape and they give it to him he's required by minnesota law to have copies of this shit uh they said will you sign the receipt that says we gave it to you and he said no i don't sign anything he said you didn't inform me of my right to counsel that's what he said okay you didn't inform me that he eventually signed the receipt but he said

you never told me that meanwhile it's on tape them giving the whole miranda warning so pre-trial very quickly here he pleads not guilty by reason of mental illness to the charges booze is not mental illness no he's a fucking being a drunken asshole is not a mental illness so he's got 65 000 left in his trust and his family is suing him saying that he shouldn't be able to use all that money in his defense he should have to well no not half his her the her family should be able to sue him civilly for this and all the funds they could sue for are going to be used in his defense so that's bullshit um but the the uh judge rules that that's his money right now so if he wants to use it for his defense that's up to

him and uh once all that's over if they want to sue him for it that's their right but you know he doesn't have to hold money in reserve in case of a lawsuit that's not that's not the law as shitty as it is that's not the law but while this fight goes on he's in jail for two years wow awaiting the deal there it's the longest anyone's ever been in this jail this county jail two fucking years uh yep um another thing he fights about is the grave marker he tells he says to the press here by the way jones marker on her grave is jones c nelson not jones c carlson he said he said that's bullshit that's that's not right it should be my name because that's her name. Yeah. Then he says, quote, I've been in the county jail longer than any person since it was built.

I guess I'll never get out. Well, if you follow along real close, you'll have a good story. That's what he tells the press here. We don't have to follow close. No, it's pretty. We can follow loosely, and it's a pretty goddamn good story. Pretty fucking compelling, sir. So it's a two and a half week trial.

He doesn't deny what happened because everybody saw it he just says that he's crazy that's his whole thing he's legally crazy they uh they have all of these witnesses the prosecution rebuilds all the thing uh you know to establish his sanity the defense says that you know he's recently had paranoid hallucinations and delusions among them that his wife was trying to harass him had paranoid hallucinations and delusions among them, that his wife was trying to harass him and that he was and trying to destroy his business as well. And also that she and Blake were pursuing an incestuous love affair. So they were like Carlson here.

He's a little, you know, he's a little bonjour over here. He said that Carlson, he was in the Marines back in the day, and he said up to him, he was carrying out a duty to rid the world of these people these terrible people who are you know he said there's no question this is his lawyer that he's responsible for the physical act of shooting these people he knew he was killing but he did not know he was committing murder that's what he said he said yeah he said this is crazy he said quote now this this is a scheming diabolical murderer i mean he said who plots a crime then goes and tells everyone he meets including a deputy sheriff

i never heard about a rational murderer premeditating a crime then telling the whole world about it he would have to be crazy that's what he says okay and they're like bragged on it that's that makes it yeah crazy he's he's an asshole yeah sure but that doesn't mean he's fucking crazy there's multiple experts here that he has three experts they talk about by the way an eeg this is 1980 like medical shit so i this is probably way out of date i don't know but two electro uh cephalo cephalograms eegs why they performed one in the usual manner and one was performed after they gave him six ounces of vodka which must have been a great experiment for this guy i get drunk first great shots man yeah a lot of vodka um the results

of the first were normal but the alcohol activated eactivated EEG showed a, quote, mitten pattern. Okay? Looks just like Michigan. That's what's going on. He said it's a mitten pattern, which has been found in a, quote, certain percentage of patients who suffer mental illness. So, obviously, he's innocent. When you're up in the UP, that's when all bets are off. That was his fucking argument.

Okay. the up that's when all bets are off that was his fucking that's his fucking argument okay um a state prosecutor here for the state side he said that the defendant's actions were not controlled by any delusions he said he described him as obsessive compulsive perfectionist and an episode alcoholic in a state of depression he said defendant knew full well what he was doing and the effect it would have on the intended victims. And he even told the cops that it was a no-no. So that tells you a lot. Yeah. He's very aware of right and wrong.

He's an angry drunk. That's what he is. That's all it is. Yeah. Very quickly, it goes to the jury after all this. During the jury, there's almost a mistrial because while the jury's deliberating the judge fucking dies what has this case could it get any weirder the judge drops dead the day before the jury had a fucking verdict so they had to delay the whole thing they'll go what do we do now the judge is

dead he had a fucking he was driving home with his wife and he just had a heart attack and died that was it heart failure drop dead so uh some other judge they finally after all this shit they finally all these legal wranglings they figure out who's got to take his place and a verdict comes in and uh they find him guilty of second and third degree murder not mentally impaired um second and third degree murder um here the verdicts are uh this has been a long time he could be sentenced to up to 75 years sentencing comes around uh you sir may fuck off he is sentenced to these are concurrent terms by the way so not consecutive they go together 40 years for the murder 25 years for next murder, and then 10 years on three other separate counts.

So 40 years. So basically, well, basically like 75 years, but concurrent. So 40 years. Yeah, that's how it works. So it was the maximum he could get, apparently. So I think he could have gotten a consecutive, though. Do they not charge him with first degree murder on that? I think first degree in Minnesota is a different thing.

I think it's a different thing. You've got to have some sort of premeditation to it. There is premeditation, but I think it's a different thing. Sometimes some states have, like, first-degree murder will be like murder of, like, a police officer or something. That's first-degree murder. Jesus, Minnesota. Shit like that. But it's the same sentences either way.

It's whether you call it first, second eighth if the sentence is 40 years it's still life you know that's life is life anyway quick appeal he has based on complete horse shit he's saying that is it's based on his tape and he's saying i you know i gave a waiver of my veranda rights but not a total waiver of my rights they said get the fuck out of here back to prison um he's finally july 3rd 2000 he drops dead so there you go carlson's dead think he died in prison too from what i could gather so i hope it was on some sort of bathtub booze some hooch some prison hooch i hope it was just a bad fermented badge and he choked to death on it what a cocksucker he is what a dick so anyway that's that he's dead hope everybody enjoy your

weekend go out and catch yourself a nice big old ham take the family out make a day of it enjoy a juicy enjoy it shut up and give me murder.com patreon.com slash crime and sports thank you guys so much for joining us. We'll see you next week. See you next week. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. out yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.