Small Town Murder - #288 - The Sex Crazed Killer Accountant - Westminster, Maryland

Episode Date: June 9, 2022

This week, in Westminster, Maryland, a mild mannered, wealthy accountant, unhappy in his marriage, meets someone new. A wild waitress/bartender, with a criminal past, and a penchant for a good time. The accountant thinks life can't get any better, until his actions are brought to light, leaving only one way out... a brutal murder. Luckily for him, his new friend has some acquaintances that just might be able to help him out. Once the horribly heartless murder is finished, the whole thing takes one incredibly weird turn, after another, with an ending that can only be described as shocking!!Along the way, we find out that you don't want to be writing many editorials around here, that sex can motivate you to do some strange things, and that not all murder sentences are create equal!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Westminster, Maryland, when a mild-mannered accountant meets a freewheeling bartender with a past, a strange bond is formed that leads to excitement, passion, and cold-blooded

murder. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Ah, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. We are excited as usual for Insanity, and we have a chock full of it today. Just a pot full. It's bubbling over, everybody. Quickly, before we get to that, thank you for everything you do for us. Your reviews help a lot. Five stars, whatever app you're listening to on, whatever. It helps, so thanks a lot for doing that. Thank you for everything you do for us. Your reviews help a lot. Five stars whatever app you're listening to on whatever it helps. So thanks a lot for doing that. Also head over to shut up and give me murder

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Everything there. Every other week, you're going to get two episodes. You're going to get one for crime and sports, one for small-town murder, and for anybody $5 or above, you get access to all of that. Everything. This week, we're going to talk about for crime and sports. We have the story of Doc Ellis, who is a pitcher who threw

a no-hitter, which even if you don't know about baseball, that sounds impressive, right? Nobody got a hit off of him. Did that while tripping balls on acid. So that's a really fun story and a few other things. He's an outspoken guy, and he's hilarious. We'll talk about Doc. And then also for small-town murder,

we are going to talk about something that people keep asking us to do, so damn it, we have to do it. Conversations with a Killer, the John Wayne Gacy tapes. Fantastic. We're going to talk about that because it is a trip, and I've read a couple of books on Gacy, and we'll get some insight on exactly. His talking, you get a lot.

He's easy to read between the lines on, John Gacy. So we'll talk a lot about what's between the lines. And the one with the Ted Bundy tapes was that the Ted Bundy tapes, they used as an excuse to tell everything over again. This one is fantastic. There's so many more details. In his own words. We'll get into that.

That's Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you'll get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while trying his best to read it properly. So that's a lot of fun. Do that and join us here. Also, the disclaimer, it's a lot of fun do that and uh and join us here uh also the disclaimer it's a comedy show everybody this is a terrible murder will happen and jokes will happen also beside them that's what goes on we're comedians the stories are real we unfortunately all this crazy shit actually

happened so it did we can do nothing to change that all we can do is tell the story and we're gonna do that what we don't do we go out of our way not to do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families why james because we're assholes but but we're not scumbags that's how that works so if that sounds good to you welcome aboard if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together i don't know maybe we're different kinds of people maybe maybe you just aren't. Give it a chance. But no complaining later. Put it that way. There you go. So that said, I think it's time, everybody.

Wherever you are, in your car, stuck in traffic. If you're maybe not on a plane, that'll freak people out. But in the gym, you're on the elliptical. Wherever you are, it's time to sit back, clear the lungs, and shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Let's go. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy.

All right, we are coming from Mississippi last week. Boy, was that a story. Dirty, dirty, dirty stuff down there. That was a gross, nasty story, man. I'll tell you something. This is weird what we have today there's some weird people and some fun stuff we're going to maryland and it's been a while since we've been in maryland we're going to it's westminster maryland but it takes place in

silver run which is like a small section of westminster basically it's a little tiny area with you know it's basically a neighborhood for lack of a better term here. It's in northern Maryland, which Maryland is kind of it's all a panhandle there. No matter where you are, you're in a panhandle in Maryland. I hate to tell you. It's a weird. Yeah. Just the way it's shaped.

You can't help it. It's about 45 minutes to Baltimore, about an hour, 10 minutes to Bethesda, Maryland, the other way. Bethesda, Maryland, the other way. Oh. And about almost two hours to Easton, Maryland, which is our last Maryland episode, episode 231, which was a classy, trashy murder mystery. That was a good- Classy, trashy. Classy, trashy murder. That was a good one, too.

This is in Carroll County, area code 410. Motto here, where history meets tomorrow. You're damn right it does. In other words, we've kept all our old shit we've improved nothing perfect um one of the first states it makes sense it makes sense silver run itself is like an unincorporated community in the you know middle of nowhere um apparently this first there was this whole area was Winchester before it was Westminster. Apparently, William Winchester purchased one hundred and sixty seven acres of land and it became known as Winchester.

And then later on, the Maryland General Assembly changed the name to Westminster to avoid confusion with West Winchester, which was in nearby Virginia. So they were so much Win virginia yeah they don't okay pre-google it was hard to know what other towns were calling themselves unless anyone in town had been there there was no way to know really didn't really have a way to look it up so um anyway april 1865 joseph shaw who was the newspaper editor in town had his presses wrecked and business destroyed and subsequently was beaten and stabbed to death by four men in westminster what the fuck uh well apparently he was in maryland and he was putting out some uh kind of confederate propaganda in the

papers guys got tired of it and um by april 1865 they were real sick of it and apparently stars and stars and bars gazette got burned down well apparently he published an anti-lincoln it's not really his fault he published an anti-lincoln editorial which freedom of the press he has a right to do that whatever he wants to do problem is the next week he was assassinated oh so if you have that from five days ago and then he's assassinated um people yeah people it's like shit gets touchy at that point back then especially so um the four men were actually acquitted in this trial somehow on the grounds of self-defense which is amazing four men beat and stabbed a guy to death and they got off on self-defense that's fascinating that is some

amazing legal wrangling there so uh 1868 they held a memorial day parade which is the longest continuously running memorial day parade in the entire country is that right yes it comes from this town um very quickly this was also the this sounds familiar if you're older or if you're a political junkie with historical shit this is uh the the where they found the pumpkin papers they're called it was on a farm in westminster it has to do with um it's a it's a law it's a whole thing with the house on american activities committee in the 50s and it was uh alger hiss it was basically a it was basically a personal vendetta from Nixon. But Hiss did the things that he was accused of. But nobody would have cared unless they were really.

It's one of those things. It was one of those deals. Anyway, they found rolls of 35 millimeter film were wrapped in wax paper inside of a hollowed out pumpkin on a farm. That's why they're known as the pumpkin papers. So if you want. Why would you want. I mean, it's a good place to hide shit, I guess. It's just in a pumpkin. I guess they were there for somebody to pick up or something? No, they were there to hide. So when they were searched by federal agents, maybe they wouldn't look in the pumpkins outside, possibly.

They should just burn it. Because they wanted to keep it. It was shit they wanted. They needed it. Yeah, otherwise, yeah, you just burn it. Reviews of this town quickly here um there's not a lot of reviews and people seem to like it here is a five-star review westminster is a nice little town where you can do anything that you could ever want

i mean you could do anything you want anywhere really if you think about it you can play bay you can play basketball skateboard or run out in town or you can play piano, skateboard, or run out in town. Or you can play piano, mandolin, read, or study while at your cozy home. You can do that literally anywhere. Except for North Korea. Those things are allowed just about anywhere. Who sits around going, I really wish I could play a mandolin today? Well, this has nothing to do with the town. The fact that you can play musical instruments in your own home.

There are so many possibilities to choose from each day well yeah life's a fucking cabaret everybody i don't know what do you want great this person is very excited about the the uh small things you will never have a dull day in westminster exclamation point it's wow from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep you'll surely have many points of excitement along the way sounds like a commercial for like a resort or something yeah this feels very truman show wow the people are as nice as they can be playing basketball with complete strangers at the park is like playing with lifelong friends and you'll never feel out

of place what the fuck while in westminster uh you will have your family's home, but the town itself feels like a second home to all of us. If you're in the mood to dine out, then you have many choices. There are chain restaurants as well as many of Westminster's finest locally owned restaurants. Wow. That is wild. This place is interesting as shit, man. Wow. They made it sound.

At least the people are passionate. That guy is interesting as shit, man. Wow, they made it sound. At least the people are passionate. That guy's really passionate. Four stars. Westminster could be better if the older people would stop trying to remove anything remotely fun in town. So there's that. Three stars. This is the worst one. Westminster is a nice little town.

It's old, so the people that live here are old and racist and blatant about it. Three stars. Unless you're playing basketball, then everybody gets along. There's a lot of junkies always on the streets at night also. Well, that doesn't sound great for a small town. This is not a three-star review. This is terrible.

It's only a nice town to the people that have lived here forever. I mean, it started out with it's a nice little town, and then it said it's a nice town's only a nice town to the people that have lived here forever i mean it started out with it's a nice little town and then it said it's a nice town only to those people so okay population racist everybody all everybody's racist apparently population 18 712 and they're blatant about it not even holding back uh 18 712 blatantly racist people apparently live here according to that review um male female few more than males, but not too far off the national average. Median age is a little bit lower.

It's about 33, which normally about 37. So all the kid ones are all high, above average, basically up to 25. Ages 0 to 25, there's a lot of younger people here. Less people are married. The people that are married have children. 23% have children but are single with children. So that's more than twice

the national average. So if you're looking to find somebody, maybe those people are good. Race of this town, 77.3% white, 8.3% black, 3.3% Asian, and 7.3% white, 8.3% black, 3.3% Asian, and 7.4% Hispanic. So a little bit of everybody, anyway. Religion in this town, about 43% are religious, and it's mixed up pretty good.

Catholic has the most, but it's not too much of anything. Catholics are the Baptists of the Mid-Atlantic region. Of New England. This is not New England. This is of the mid-atlantic region of new england this is what not new england this is the mid-atlantic region here yeah politics in carroll county uh last election 36 voted democrat 60 republican 3.6 independent so it's about double the average nationally there of independent voters here the unemployment rate is a little bit above average but nothing to go crazy about the median household income here is just about the average also it's 55 000 it's about 54 000 the rest of the country so very average town is the best way to put it cost of living 100 is you

know average par here it's 110 that's not even that high median home the housing in it well yeah it's the housing is a little higher median home cost here 373 200 bucks but and that's not even that much higher than the national average now really anymore yeah that's getting that's pretty close so if we've convinced you, damn it, you want to eat fresh blue crabs, we have for you the Westminster, Maryland Real Estate Report. All right, there's a good variety here

to choose from. I love it already. Here's a two-bedroom rental. Your average two-bedroom rental is about $1,300 here. So it's right about the national average. Here we have a two-bedroom, one-bath, 896-square-foot house. Don't know what it looks like inside because there are no pictures. Now, it looks like possibly there are no pictures because someone's afraid of falling debris,

maybe a roof going in. Going inside, yeah. It doesn't look good. Windows are boarded up with plywood, which is always a bad sign. And there's some kind of rusty metal substance on the roof area. On the roof.

I don't know if it's a roof, a metal roof. The roof doesn't look like it's holding much. It looks like if you went in there, you'd be in the living room in no time. This is a bad place. It's very, very odd. It's not a good house, but it's also $70,000. Okay, there you go. Maybe the land is

worth something. I don't know. Get some scaffolding and fix her up. Yeah, and then we have kind of your average one here. Three bedroom, two bath, 2,095 square feet. It's a good size house. It looks weird because it looks like a miniaturized piece of a Victorian house.

That's the design of it, but it's a smaller place than that. It's not bad. It's okay. There's like a separate garage out back. It's okay. It's kind of your average house, a bit bigger 364 000 which is right about the average price too then there's one all right you're doing well for yourself here four bedroom five bath 4655 square feet now we're talking t-ball for each and every b-hole right here baby some despair i cannot believe it's yeah it's weird um

it's not great is the thing that's that yeah when you look at it i'm like i can't really i'm not seeing what they're thinking here it's got like a a silver spoons train track but not on the ground like the like ricky schroeder like it's elevated and runs to the house like a bar yeah like a bar has my dentist office yeah i house? Like a bar. Yeah. Like a bar. Like my dentist office. Yeah. I did comedy in a bar once that had that going around. Yeah, and if the comic was good, they'd give it like a choo-choo.

It was very bad. So it was very strange. It really needs an up. The whole house is fucking, looks like it's from 1979, but it's really expensive still. $1,250,000 for that. Holy shit. It's going to cost you half a,250,000 for that. Holy shit. It's going to cost you half a million to get it up to standards, though. I'll tell you something right now.

Things to do in this town. Oh, baby. Here we go. Here we go. The 51st Annual Old Fashioned Corn Roast Festival. Corn roast? Let's roast some corn. Not corn rows?

Not corn row festival. Maybe that one's going on as well well we're gonna roast corn and row corn at the same time and white people and braids roast and rose baby um come enjoy an old-fashioned meal featuring corn roasted in the husk served at your table meal ticket buys serving a fried chicken applesauce sliced tomatoes roll and butter iced tea or lemonade and all the roasted corn you can eat all you can eat all you can eat people's poop is going to be 80 corn in this place i swear to god the whole it's just kernels honey it just came out yeller and kernels that didn't even form a couldn't even hold a log just fell apart turn so studded you come when you shit oh it's amazing it's it's the it's the

call it the french stubble corn it's wonderful it just gets you on the way out it's good that's some good corn you're gonna have two cleanups in there oh a lot of cleanup going on here uh next up is the the peep show at the carol arts council hot right uh no it's about it's a it's a show for marshmallow peeps yes that's not not that kind of how do you do a show with marshmallow peeps. Well, let's explain it. Approximately 100 teams of, 100 teams, Jimmy. There's hundreds of people working on this. Hundreds of people are making sure that there are peeps in different shapes. They're like the Edward Scissorhands of peeps. So how do they do it?

Are they melting them down? They work year round. So how do they do it? Are they melting them down? They work year round. This is their job to make peeps, to create a marshmallow peep masterpiece made primarily out of the delicious Easter candy, which are displayed in the old Westminster Theater for thousands of patrons viewing pleasure and the chance to be voted best of the best. You're the best. Around. of the best you're the best around um the popular choices include a larger than life sugary versions of bell from beauty and the beast a game of thrones dragon r2d2 edgar allen poe the rainbow

fish and paddington bear i want to see this i mean that sounds impressive but i'm not leaving my house for it i'd google it and go wow that's a fucking huge marshmallow, and that's it. I'm not going to pay money and leave the house. Yeah, I'd follow the Twitter account. Let's have a look-see. I'm not going to be like, oh, where's the parking? Oh, shit, we've got to get a good spot. Like, I'm not going and fighting people.

They could even take a picture of an actual stuffed Paddington bear, and I'll just look at it and be like, oh, that's made of peeps. No shit. All right, next one pretty badass um and then there is the living history reenactment that's another thing to do they say i'll quote from their site here it is the spring of 1865 and the war has reached a crucial point general ulysses s grant and the union have caught rob rob general robert e lee and the confederates near pet E. Lee and the Confederates near Petersburg, Virginia. Both armies have dug extensive field fortifications around the city. The battle rages until Lee is trapped

and forced to surrender at Appomattox Courthouse. After four long years, the war is over. Food is available for purchase at the event. $10 per family, $5 per adult, $4 per senior, 60 and over. It goes, literally there isn't even a paragraph break. It goes, the war is over. food is available for purchase at the event not even like a next line down it's just right in line with it um so there's what your things to do are that said i think let's talk about a murder jimmy what do you say let's get into this crime rates in this town james the

crime rate is what we're into here the crime oh yeah the crime rate i forgot about the crime rate how the hell they forgot about the crime why do i know the format so jesus christ property crime is actually a little bit low here um which is kind of to be expected it's just kind of a quiet town except for all those junkies i hear about by those reviews and then uh to be racist yeah apparently not violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault um is just slightly under the national average as well. So it's skewing safe in this town. Pretty safe, yeah. Skewing safe.

With that said, James. Let us talk about a murder. Let's do it. And we're going to it a little bit early today because it is a thick story. It's just so crazy that you don't want to you don't want to leave out details in this story it's one of those stories that every detail is crazier than the last one and you have to you have to build a pyramid of shit here and we're going to do it let's get into this uh let us go back in time our story is going to take place in 1979 that's where the

the bulk of our story is going to take which is a wonderful time for murder in this country. It really is. Just the way everybody's dressed with the floppy hair. It's a lot. There's a lot of brown and avocado and that weird orange. That golden sun. What's that yellow? Harvest gold.

There you go. Harvest gold is what I'm looking for. Harvest gold, avocado green, pink refrigerators, James. Pink. It makes you want to murder. Put it that way. I'm looking for. Harvest gold. Harvest gold, avocado green, pink refrigerators, James. Pink. It makes you want to murder. Put it that way. It does. Pink sinks in your bathrooms.

Pink bathtubs and shit. Anybody living in that at some point, without even knowing, it could snap and kill everybody. How can you count on yourself? Your whole family wiped out in one thing. So much green and just losing your mind while you you know lose it so anyway uh we're gonna go back then let's talk about a guy here uh first of all robert lee myers let us discuss here okay robert lee bobby lee here yeah robert a lot of southern guys named robert and have lee as their middle name that's a they do. It's very, very common there. A little brave.

So Bobby Lee here, Bobby Lee Myers, he is born in 1941, Bobby Lee. So right kind of as we were getting involved in World War II. In 1963, he gets married pretty early on. Around 20, he gets married. By 1963, he has a daughter. I think he has a couple other kids around here but i know about the daughter a daughter's name is shelly um she says quote it was a happy childhood until i was 12 and then she said uh things started to get shitty when she was 12 here uh between her

parents her dad by the way bobby lee is a, or just Bobby, Bobby is a successful accountant. Very successful. He has his own business. He is. He's killing it. He's a millionaire in the 70s. Is that right? Yeah, that's a big deal in the 70s.

It's still a shitload of money now, but back then people go, a millionaire? Holy shit, they're set for life. So does very well, has real estate, owns a trailer park, owns a motel. You know, he knows how to be wealthy and cash in on people who aren't. He's got that part down. And hang on to it. And hang on to it. Yeah, he's an accountant, so he's good with his money.

So anyway, Shelly, the daughter, said that things kind of started to unravel here in her childhood. Her mom and dad broke up. Bobby breaks up with this wife. And she wanted to stay with her dad because he was nicer to her, she said. And she said, quote, he'd do anything to keep his wife happy to avoid trouble in the family. She called him gentle and pliable. Yeah. She said,

he's just kind of a go with the flow kind of a guy. Oh yeah. Kind of that kind of cat. Um, but, uh, she said that it was a weird thing because at first they got separated and everything was kind of fine.

And she said, yeah, she said that her mom, she, she ended up living with her mom and her dad said she wouldn't challenge that said she wouldn't challenge that, and she'd visit him all the time. But after a little bit of going on here, she ended up, like, when she'd come visit him, she'd stay with a friend. She wouldn't even visit him. Like, she wouldn't stay at his house anymore.

Even when she was a teenager, because he married another woman. Bobby does, and they don't quite get along, Shelley and the new wife. The new wife is Mary Ruth, and they call her Mary Ruth all the time. Is that right? Which, I don't know, seems excessive. It really does. You can do it if your name's like Joe Bob, because that's two syllables. So, bop, bop, bop.

It's, you know, bop, bang. But if your name is... Her name is Mary Jane. We call her Mary Jane. Mary Jane. I don't know why Mary Jane is easier than Mary Ruth, but the E and the R are hard to, you know, Mary Jane seems to flow out of your mouth the way words come. Yeah, you got to reposition your mouth to get to Ruth, because you've already gone past the R.

Exactly. Exactly. It's in some languages like in italian i think it's probably in spanish too but like in italian a lot of the the reason why there's vowels on the end is because it's easier to flow into another word that way yeah it's easier like a hard end is hard to you got to start over so i've just they've literally engineered their language they can talk faster that's how they've worked so they worked it out if you hear italian so i go fast they've worked it out so all these words just go together they flow there's no stops

and starts and any of that shit do the same thing with their cars yeah it's got to flow together make them fast so um anyway they uh this is going on here and uh mary ruth myers she is now she becomes his wife and shelly says quote we just didn't hit it off i think she didn't like sharing his time with me okay so you know this is this happens sometimes does mary ruth have kids yes she does she has plenty of she's got plenty of her own as we'll talk about so yeah that's another thing um well what the fuck mary ruth yeah i don't know what it is she because they end up moving in with her and she wants it to be. That's the family. Apparently,

according to Shelly, anyway, that Mary Ruth is, wants that to be the family and kind of Shelly is old life for him that she, that according to who knows, this is the other thing when you're a kid, because we've been in this situation. You,

you, a lot of times you feel like you're not welcome, but that might be in your head, right? That's your perception does not make that reality. Exactly. I've, You a lot of times you feel like you're not welcome, but that might be in your head. Right. That's your perception does not make that reality. Exactly. I've I've come to the realization of that as I got older, that a lot of the things like that with my family, maybe it was in my head that I felt that way. But it wasn't actually like that.

You know, so anyway, I thought that, too. And then my stepfather used to beat me and it basically reminded me no he doesn't like me yeah yeah it doesn't like you see there's a difference between that's a weird thing with attention though because yeah yeah for some reason in my fucked up brain i would at least take that as like oh well at least he's including me in something which is obviously terrible way to think but that would be my in my brain that's be like, all right, well, at least I'm not out. At least they're not ignoring me. At least I'm bruised, too.

We need attention. I am a comedian, so we do need a certain amount of attention. My dad sent me, I sent this to you, and I'll tell everybody. My dad sent me, he found a report card from first grade for me and in it like one of the first things is james expresses himself well to a group of people which apparently isn't normal for a six-year-old that was like something that needed to be like told like i don't know what it is but he'll get up and talk to everybody it's fucking weird he'll just get people's attention and make a speech. That's great. He's in control of this.

Very strange. Yeah. I was like, wow. So I was insecure and also insecure, needed attention, and looking for a group to talk to. That could have mapped my life out right away. I feel like we're looking at a very young George george carlin perhaps uh but worse but but not as good get this kid a sport coat or something he needs to be out there calm him in the 80s yeah teach him golf maybe i don't know he needs something he's to concentrate

fucking ridiculous so anyway he's married to ruth um and shelly is not really liking it and she kind of comes less and less over the years and yeah you know you'll you'll hear less and less from shelly as the story goes on yeah well she becomes like a teenager too and gets her own life and but squeezed out of the house the reason that she went and did her own things and that's fucked up when you're 16, and you feel that, you might just kind of edge away from it. You know what I mean? Just like, well, don't need that, I guess, right now.

If it's not important to you, it's great. But if you desire it and want it, that's fucked up. You know what I mean? But who knows? She may have loved this part. We don't know. And also, Mary Ruth, by the way. Mary, I'm just going to call her Mary.

Mary Ruth is a lot. It's a mouthful. It's too much. Mary, it's a lot to say. No offense to Mary Ruth, by the way, Mary, I'm just going to call her Mary. Mary Ruth is a lot. It's a mouthful. It's too much. Mary, it's a lot to say. No offense to Mary Ruth, but Mary is not a bad person either. She's not known as a terrible person. Everybody, well-liked, well-respected person. She also jumps right in and helps him with his business.

She's not just like sit back and I'm going to spend money or anything like that. No, she helps him expand his accounting practice She's not just like sit back and, you know, I'm going to spend money or anything like that. No, she helps him expand his accounting practice. And they're a team. They really are a team. So I don't know, like we said, if they were a team and she just didn't want Shelly to be a part of it or if like a lot of kids that might have been something she felt that might not have been real. Who knows? So in May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive

again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper.

In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership

to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. She, though, has four children from a previous marriage that she brings into this relationship, so that's a lot um everybody said she's a good mother she's like you know the kids are always put together and clean and she keeps a nice house and uh you know does all of her shit things that in the 70s people would have been like well does she keep a good house you know like all of the outside things that you would look at. Mary seems like a hell of a nice person here.

She's about five years older than Bobby. Mary is. Yeah, she's a few years older. She's born in 1930. Or I'm sorry. Yeah, 1936. So she's a few years older. She they run Maryland Business Services.

That's the name of their business. That it's an accounting business that. Yeah, they do very well apparently here um so by the late 70s i'll give you a snapshot of their life and kind of what's going on here by the late 70s they have uh you know they've been married for almost 10 years by this point you know seven eight years they have two children of their own by now as well oh my god yeah a lot of kids involved here stop it stop reproducing the two of you they have seven between the two of them and at least seven i don't know if shelly's his only kid from a previous marriage she's just the only one i found it talking about this whole thing so i mean at least seven

kids are a result of these two and that that's not all of them either they'll be more later so yeah they're quite the prodigious reproducing prodigious prodigiously reproducing couple here so uh they've been married about that long they live in a really big really expensive house by the way you have to yeah huge they live on a turkey foot run in silver run um the way it's described at this point is in an article was it's a rural community of about 100 families silver run so when it's described not 100 households 100 families that tells you those are rich people you got to those are 100 households could be anybody. That's who gives a shit. 100 families are.

These are all intact, well-doing families where they take very nice Christmas pictures and send them to all of their family on Christmas. And it gets there like three days before Christmas because they're on top of their shit. That's a family. 100 families. With a letter that describes and sums up this entire past year. All of the success of their children, what private schools they've gotten into, and awards they've received, and accomplishments, and all this shit.

My grandparents got a text about everything positive in my life. Oh, God. Both things. My kids are still alive. Merry Christmas. Kids are alive. We're doing well. They haven't died from the smallpox, so we think we're doing well so far.

No cholera in this house. Nope. We've done well. No dysentery. Any of these Oregon Trail diseases, we've kept them cleared of, and they've been fine here. So, yeah, this house, it's a huge fucking house on 21 acres of land, by the way. Jesus. Yeah. They have a 21-acre plot with a huge giant house on 21 acres of land by the way jesus yeah they have a 21 acre plot with a huge giant house seven of the only 14 of it they can like you know uh have fun on because seven of the

acres are used as a vineyard holy fuck these people have a seven acre vineyard in their house in their yard imagine that well you don't kind of upkeep a seven acre vineyard in their house in their yard imagine that well you don't kind of upkeep a seven acre vineyard takes that's a yeah you gotta have some people walking around looking at that you can't just go water that on the weekends and go back in your house you know what i mean that's a so much work that's a lot of work right there so that means they have a lot of people on the payroll yeah doing shit around their house and working. They got a head groundskeeper. Can you imagine?

They got it. They have to have one. They have to have a vineyard master, too. That's a special thing, growing grapes. If you actually want to use them for wine, that's a very specific thing. There's only a certain amount of people that know how to do that, to grow fucking wine grapes the right way. only a certain amount of people that know how to do that to grow fucking wine grapes the right way yeah so they moved into this house uh about kind of about 1978 late 77 early 78 they move into this house it was at the highest point on a hill in silver run that overlooked everything else

they've got a fucking summit they got the summit 21 acres seven acre vineyard giant house overlooking all the other houses all these houses have horse farms on them and shit this is like this is a ridiculous neighborhood i don't even know i don't even know if i've ever been in a neighborhood like this you know what i'm saying like i can't even put it into perspective because i don't think i've ever been here to a place like this i really have it's like a king looking out over his kingdom over his incredible over his kingdom yeah over his the whole fucking fiefdom here so he's doing insanely well basically and all these houses in here are expensive there's no like shit side of silver run it's there it's all nice basically it's like i said i've never been to a place like this. It sounds idyllic and great.

It sounds great. It sounds great, but it also smells like people would complain when they smell weed. Yeah. You know what else it sounds like? It sounds like a lot of stress. Yeah, a lot. Yeah, you got to keep it up. But these people just pay people to keep it all up, and then they're like, who cares, I guess.

But still, you have to. Yeah, but again. It's a lot to keep going revisiting the rest of my uh psychiatric fucking nightmare that i live that sounds like so much stress of what if it all goes away i don't want to watch but it doesn't go away as an accountant that's the point yes yeah what goes away i'm so frightened to lose everything but in what way i don't know like if you're an accountant who owns an accounting business unless you're doing something illegal that you're going to go into prison for yeah there's no way to have it go away you just go

to work every day and you keep fucking making money it's crazy the the the vineyard just keeps growing i i guess you just keep buying more it's wild yeah he for this guy it's everything's great um awesome they describe all the neighbors say that they're workaholics because they're just running this business which with that many kids i don't know how the fuck anybody'd be a workaholic you'd be right that's so many kids how do you have anything more than 40 hours no shit uh mary ruth is described as tall slender and attractive and a and blonde and a neat dresser as well so she's like a real put together rich lady is what she is yeah he's doing very well he's doing pretty well here um and he's kind of pudgy not really not not traditionally a handsome

attractive man put it that way all right but he does does well to himself here no no no he's a little he's bigger than me he's doughy you're not fat you just have a belly you're not fat you're not like a big fat guy he's just you know what i mean i would be if my legs were proportioned to anything on me i i have the chickenest legs on earth and then i have this all this shit above i look bizarre nude you don't have like a weird like big fat like triple chin or anything like that like some guys have you know some guys some guys have those jowls and shit like extra he's kind of got a little bit of jowl action going on which is that's a separate issue you know you don't even have to be a big fat guy to have jowl

action going on just some guys are built that way but um either way uh she's doing well she's driving mary's driving around a brand new silver lincoln continental oh oh yeah doing fucking 70s oh yeah kill it that's a cool car it's a boat man that thing's a boat that is not giving a fuck about gas prices back then or anything else it's a big bastard big bastard he also uh ended up having a new Lincoln as well. So everybody's doing so well. Problem is, from the outside, looking great. Everybody looks like, I mean, what an idyllic fucking marriage this is.

It's all going well. They're building this business. Also, the marriage, behind closed doors, they're fighting like a motherfucker all the time. Apparently, they're very spiteful to each other um it's it's back and forth there's no physical violence or anything but there's uh just very kind of bitchy back and forth the nitpicky the both of them and they're just both they shouldn't be together after a while it's like this just doesn't work when the doors close yeah it's bad stuff yeah everybody both their friends this is a weird thing they both said they use sex as a weapon for control

hey that so much yeah i don't know from what side that's coming from or just both of them or what but either way withholding it when they do have sex he does it in a torturous shitty way so i have no idea i we don't know but that are they both withholding it that's how do you with like one time she's withholding it then the next thing you know she wants it and he's like no can't have it now like what are they doing i don't understand or i don't know if it's just one of them or both of them or what it's just described as sex is used as a weapon for control in the relationship. I hate that. Yeah, that's gross either way.

Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to have their... Yeah, it's terrible. Hate her all you want. Go down on her and shut her up. Same with the... You know what I mean? Yeah.

You can't do that to people. Unless she doesn't want you to go down on her. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point, yeah. You said it like... You said it like, pin her down and fucking eat her pussy. What are you doing?

What's wrong with you get in there soldier come on okay well let's see if the gates open first before we come knocking at the door through oliver please stop do not let's let's make sure everything's voluntary we're gonna put an umbrella over this with yeah in a voluntary way so people were bobby is known as like an honest man in business he never has any nobody ever accuses him of embezzlement or anything like that which i mean accountants you have a there's a lot of room to fuck with people so an honest accountant is saying something they said that he's also a jovial outgoing guy um one of his friends described him as a top man very honest and very reliable it's one of his friends and clients

and um one of his friends described him as a mild timid type person as well so kind of getting an idea of bobby yeah in business he does well at his desk with the accounting, makes his money, kind of gets pushed around here and there in life. Seems like Mary is the more assertive of the two in the marriage as far as she's more confident and seems to be. Sometimes you got to put up with some shit to get the hot chick. They're equally smart, it seems like. They're equally driven in terms of business-wise and all that. If it wasn't for the weird using sex as a weapon thing, they'd probably be a good couple. Maybe.

I don't know what all the other things are. But mild and timid, that's what some people describe him as. And then some people have a different thing to say about him. Here is something from Mary's daughter. Her name is Dana Abbott. Her boyfriend at the time was named melvin ray keith jr you can jumble those up and throw them out like dice in any which way and it'd be fine keith ray melvin okay ray melvin keith great keith melvin ray all right i'll take them all

it all works it's fucking amazing any Any combination. Melvin Ray Keith Jr. Wow. I would never use the junior. I don't need any more names. This is a lot of names. So he dated Dana Abbott here, like I said, who was Mary's daughter from 1976 through 1979. So he gets a pretty good sample size of what's going on here uh he said that one night he had an argument with dana or bobby had an argument not melvin ray keith ray melvin ray keith actually myers here bobby myers had an argument

with dana and apparently during this argument he put his hands around her neck and choked her oh you can't do that can't yeah it's not you can't choke your kids and you really can't choke other people's kids that's even worse than choking your own kids um it's terrible apparently she had a red mark around her neck and you know visible visible strangling visible signs of this here um so yeah there's kind of kind of one of those uh i guess he didn't want from what they say the kids say that they felt like he didn't want them around. So everybody's kids feels like the other one doesn't want them around kind of a thing. But they live in the house, so I can't really help that. They're going to be there.

But they're not his real kids, so they have some sort of not really an attachment. And they feel that he feels the same way. Exactly. like uh not really an attachment and they feel that he feels the same way exactly um he told he told one of the kids that he he quote had to put up with them as long as mary ruth was alive there you go so so he confirmed it he said put up with is a very telling phrase i believe right put up with is very specific not Even deal with is another thing completely. You could have some doubts about the warmth in the house. And when somebody says put up with you, endure, any of those types of words that really lets you know they're not loving you.

Anything that denotes attrition is going to be bad. You know what I'm saying? Anything that says that is terrible that's all bad you know you have some ground and you're the ground yeah even if you said i'll do i gotta deal with you that's even like dealing with is better than putting up with you know yeah dealing goes back and forth there's a conversation putting up with is right putting up with is just giving i have to just keep from punching you this entire time that's what putting up with is fucking i acquiesce every day you in my house just to fuck your mom that's what that means

and now she i'm not even can't even do that sometimes right sometimes she keeps it from me sometimes you're still here yep but that's might be what's going on so jesus april of 1979 you kind of get a uh idea what's going on they're living in this giant mansion where there's unhappiness on the inside of it but on the outside of it it's sparkling and the wine is good and the grapes are growing and the business is thriving and nobody has any idea he has no he's getting no pussy and everybody's eating his lucky charms this is everybody's eating he's like you ate the last of the milk i need fiber what is it 79 he's like i bought these grape nuts and i'm gonna eat them i bought these little try i bought a box of tiny rocks and i'm gonna eat them where's my box of gravel god damn it

my grandfather ate gravel sometimes he had a box of gravel yeah you were born like pre-1955 you ate grape nuts at some point i feel like this is the way it was i tried them once because and i was like nope that'll i'll never do that again as a kid my tried my grandfather's the funny thing is when you put the milk in nothing really happens it just kind of fills up like gravel it doesn't like normally you put milk in and the whole cereal level rises it all pops up you just put it in there and you're like oh i guess you just swish it around now it's like uncooked oatmeal for a while and it never softens no god no then you put in your mouth you're just like this is why all my gums are bleeding but besides that these are

very healthy i like how healthy it is that when my gums bleed it's like a letting you know what i mean it's like leeches how much did you pay for this uh larger size grain sand jesus christ well what's it taste like oh nothing nothing at all mainly blood graphenuts tastes like your tastes like your own blood enjoy the enjoy the sounds of your teeth breaking is that a piece of graphenut or piece is that a piece a piece of grape nut or my filling what is that floating around in my mouth they're the same consistency i can't tell i hope my body breaks this down because the milk in my chewing sure didn't well when you take a shit it sounds like a machine gun in a cartoon it's just what happened i hope my body doesn't

just make a long log of fucking concrete out of this it'll never come out you gotta take like bites of salad in between bites of grape nut to keep like the layers so it doesn't clump up into a big stone log you have to really in there stagger it a lot of shit talk today for a small town murder episode this is the most shit talk we've ever had a lot of jump shit talk with james and jimmy here we are everybody corn nuts and oh corn and grape nuts we'll do that yeah well that's true how else do you talk about iorum? I think it's warranted. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we did the wrong thing. It's all warranted. So April 1979, he goes into a place called John O's, which is a restaurant, bar, lounge kind of a place.

Typical kind of a dive bar, I guess you could call it. It's where you go to forget. Yes, it's where you go to forget. Where hopefully nobody knows your name or won't remember it tomorrow either way. So it's in Westminster. And while he's there, he meets himself a friend. He meets the bartender here, a waitress she's working at here as well. Bartender, waitress, slash whatever.

Server, bartender. She takes care of everybody in here it's a small place you know what i mean um yeah her name is ernestine tina she goes by yeah i would too yeah ernest like they just named her after her grandfather yeah well name her ernestine fuck so tina now tina's tina she's going by tina g Gillen is what she's calling herself now. That's how she introduces herself. Her full name is Ernestine Lane Butcher Botterton Gillen Marco. Are those all the last names she used to have?

Those are four married names and her maiden name of Lane. Oh, my God. Butcher Botterton Gillen Marco are her married names. She's a lot of fun. She's 29, by the way she has been married shit she has four completed and over with marriages by 29 that's a lot ernie yeah that is a lot of big earn calm big big earn has earn. So big earn. Slow down, dear. Slow your rolls. Wow. 29.

Hey, we get it. Four times happens. But by 29, maybe don't even get married at all by 29. That's what we're saying. Ever again. For sure. Nowadays, people be at 29. All right.

Maybe it's about time, but not four times by then. No. But back then, it was a different thing. So April of 1979 1979 when he meets her she is living in a boarding house slash motel oh boy working at this bar um in out here and d a maryland uh department of uh what is it services uh the dss it's the family the one people who take your kids away if you're not taking care of them are threatening to take her two children away and place them in foster care at this point. Oh, boy.

Because she's living in a shitty boarding house and barely keeping it together with a waitress slash bartender job at a place that doesn't make a lot of money. So she's having a rough go of it, obviously. She sure is. Yeah. Her last marriage ended. Her last marriage, the guy's a mechanic in florida and uh she is coming from las vegas she just got here from las vegas got a job and is staying at this joint transplant to maryland from las vegas from las vegas and we'll

talk about that she's had she's she's got a mixed bag in her past uh put it that way um she um her son later on would say that she used to say about herself this is a quote this is a quote of her tina on tina okay uh tina on tina that she quote i gotta count them how many of these uh quote lied lied lied lied lied a whole lot that's five that's that's five lies lied lied lied lied lied a whole lot that's what she how her son described her describing herself um which i mean you got two kids and you're hustling and you're trying to make it go of it with a boarding house and everything you might have to lie some and hustle just to get your fucking you know food in your kid's mouth so i get it sure um but she's had she's been troubled since youth i mean she has a juvenile record criminal record for theft um

she did prison time in california oh my i don't know how she has time to get married four times she has for a credit card scam that she was running in California, she did actual prison time for that. And then she was also arrested for being a prostitute in California as well, for prostitution. And she apparently lied and had it come out in court during these occasions, lied on several occasions to social welfare agencies regarding her domestic and financial affairs as well. So she, I know she was charged with welfare fraud at one point as well. So, yeah, Tina is just, she's hanging on by a thread, man. She's on the... She's doing her best to succeed and survive. She's doing her best to survive right now. She's going really far. She's got a hustle to survive. She doesn't't have any education she's got no background and at all

she can get a job she knows how to wait tables she knows that at 10 bar she can always get a job doing that which is thank fuck for that for a lot of people you know what i mean i've been in that situation where if it wasn't for waiting tables i'd have been in deep shit because that was how you could make some decent money and you know still have my day off to take care of my kid because that's what I was doing at the time. You know, it's hard. So anyway, she's she's been a lot of a lot of interaction with police and agencies and all that kind of shit. Jail is no start in Maryland now trying to make a fresh start. of shit jail is no start in maryland now trying to make a fresh start um one lady a woman named linda hill said that tina once threatened her in a dispute over the sale of a car there was some

sort of dispute i don't know who sold it who bought it whatever the dispute was tina told her that if we don't settle this right here in a favorable way to me, I, quote, have some friends in the mafia, she told her. Oh, Tina. Oh, yeah. And that's right. And she said Tina asked this Linda Hill if she ever read the papers in California and then said, quote, I don't play games. I have a lot of friends. So.

Holy shit. I don't know if she's trying to claim that whatever, like, what is this, like the Hillside Stranglers are her work? I don't know if she's trying to claim that whatever like what is this the late like the hillside stranglers are her work i don't know she's trying to say those are all the women that crossed me no even the 14 year old girls they crossed me i didn't i'm not taking that she sold me skates yeah i'm not doing it holy shit i don't know what the fuck she's talking about but one of her husbands uh clarence botterton he was a this is a he sounds like a very reputable man. Quote, a bail bondsman and her pimp. That's how they that's how they met.

How'd you meet? Well, it's a lovely story. I she used me as a bail bondsman. And then I said, oh, you're a very lovely young lady. How about how about I take on your action yeah and then we'll be together we'll get married and then if you ever get arrested i can just bail you right out it's the perfect marriage like what a scumbag marriage what a scum a bail bondsman pimp scum of the earth this guy is i'll be your hero all day i'll get you dates and then when you're caught on

those dates i'll get you out and get you more dates it's gonna be perfect i got you covered well uh in early 1979 in california he is murdered in a pipe bomb and a pipe bombing oh my god he's murdered by a pipe bomb generally i've ever heard that well i've heard of it in like the mafia you know yeah fucking you know they tried to blow up john gaudy's car with a pipe bomb and they killed the other guy with a pipe bomb but the unibomber did it but like not normal dudes no and yeah just a bail but then again if you're a bail bondsman you could have a lot of people angry at you i mean there's people yeah if you revoke someone yeah sure you're dealing with criminals right if you pull bond on

someone yeah and they have some friends you never know who how this could happen either way he's a guy that is definitely in the estuary of legality and criminal behavior being a bail bondsman pimp and he's murdered with a pipe bomb waiting in it so this is what i'm saying tina has had an interesting a colorful life to say the least she is um she's picked some some fascinating people to be around it's she's somebody that if you sat down and got her life story that's worth the price of admission you know just get her whole life story be like whoa that is harrowing holy shit so anyway bobby myers eats there frequently over the next month or so and gets to know tina he's talking to tina yap and whether they become very friendly um he continues to eat there to talk to tina um but nothing goes on they're just talking chatting

um you know she's younger than him and uh a little bit and they're they they're at different speeds in life basically i feel like yeah they don't run in the same circles no you know what i mean she's struggling and yeah he's always got like you know his khakis on and shit like that like they're just not people that would normally associate with each other but um they they like each other apparently on june 20th of 1979, Tina's car breaks down. And for someone in her position, that is like death. Devastating. That'll ruin your day.

That'll ruin your week. I remember being absolutely, and this is like five years ago, absolutely terrified that if my car broke down I'd be so fucked because I couldn't get it. I wouldn't be able to afford to get it fixed. And how am I going to get places? It's the worst fucking hamster wheel to be on and i was on that hamster wheel for a good 15 to 20 years and it sucked so not cool um anyway the myers here

he said i'll help you i'll buy you a new car you're a hard-working young gal i see what a good waitress you are and everything and a bartender and you know you got to be able to get to work let me help you out let me help you get capped and save a whole cape oh my god yeah he's i'll help you yeah this is like finally something he can do where he's like this'll show i'm sure she'll like me if i buy her things because well the thing is that he what he does at home is give and give and give, and he just wants a little bit of credit. He knows for sure that this down-on-her-luck woman, if I help her, the credit that I'm going to get from her is going to be everything I could ever want.

That's probably how he feels, which is a sad way to try to attract people. Depressing. It's a very pathetic way to try to attract people. It really is. It's sad. Yeah, it's very sad pathetic way to try to attract people it really is it's sad um yeah it's very sad so he bought her this is on august 10th 1979 he buys her a 1976 ford torino so it's only three years old that's a good used car that's a fine used car um tina and her two children spent that day with him driving around with him in the new car.

You know, hey, look at this. They drove to Mount Holly, Pennsylvania, where he owns a trailer park there, I guess, to check. I don't know if he was collecting rent or checking on the, just looking it over or what. But a couple days later, Myers called Tina. He was in Ocean City, Maryland, which we've talked about before, and asked her to come. Why don't you come down to Ocean City and hang out with me? Spend some time with me. I had a good time the other day.

That was a good time. Jump in the Torino. Roll down here. So she hopped in. 302 up. Let's go. Hopping in the old Torino? Yeah.

I think you're talking about an earlier model, by the way, here in 75. Yeah. These are not cool cars. Not anymore, anymore no that's a fart mobile by 75 that is not great so that's somebody's grandfather's car by the 80s you know so uh he said come on down hop in the torino and come see me and she said okay why not yeah so she does she does make a stop though in reister town to show off her new car to a friend of hers a guy we'll talk about him a guy named daniel lee chatterton we'll talk about him as well um but in a minute so anyway they've been friends this whole time you know it's been going really well but then she comes she pulls up in the torino i

don't know if it's the vibrations of the torino or the torinos are magic obviously i mean they're it's you might as well that's like taking somebody to an island really if you put them in a torino ask your mom where she lost her virginity if she doesn't say torino she's lying to you lying bitch that's all there is to it that's it That's what it is. Most of you out there, you were conceived in a Torino. I hate to tell you. You all were. Or maybe over the hood of it. Either way, it was involved.

I was in a Torino once. My dick was hard the whole time. I didn't know why. I didn't know why. It's just the Torino. I was sweating I was so hard. It was just ridiculous. Terrible.

So anyway, disgustingness there uh so torino uh i don't know why the torino makes me laugh so once she gets there she can't uh resist them anymore they they get together and uh in the first little while they're together here about a week in august the mid-august they have sex three different on three different occasions and uh he is over the moon about this boy he is loving it um loving it loving it loving it so much so um she says um she says that they're talking at one point and he says man this is great i really enjoy being with you you don't know anyone who could kill my wife do you oh my god what i mean just you know you know who knows and she goes why don't you get a divorce and he's like ah that'd be

super expensive you know you know divorces are i got a house they're gonna make me split it with her i don't fucking do that i just be in my vineyards up i got a house. They're going to make me split it with her. I don't want to fucking do that. I just get my vineyards up. I got a lot going on. I put in a new sound system in my rec room. Like, I don't want to have to do that again. There's a lot of, like, wires and new drywall work had to be done. It's really a pain in the ass.

Help me out, Big Arn. Yeah, come on. Let's go, Big Arn. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious

crimes, you should tune in to our podcast. Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. A seven-acre vineyard is beautiful. Three-and-a-half-acre vineyard

is a fucking amateur. I can't lose half. I can't. Ten-and-a-half acres. I've got to be professional. Yeah. How kind of vineyard is that? Well, also, my vineyard master, Pino, is going to be very disappointed. pino's expecting

what part of it can we even cut out of there the poor guy he won't know what to do so um anyway they um apparently they get in a fight mary and and myers on uh friday august 14th um bobby was at uh a place that she was another bar she was working at called angelo's bobby was there and uh tina was working and around 8 30 p.m mary ruth came in oh god okay so confrontation here um walked in and started arguing with bobby all right didn't pay tina any mind but um started arguing with bobby so bobby got up and walked away he took off he went around the restaurant into the back door and met tina in the kitchen oh yeah this is ballsy your your angry wife is in the restaurant how about not now goes around the back and talks to her oh my god so he hugs tina and asks him to meet her ask her to meet him at sharky's cove restaurant and bar uh when she got

off work sharky's cove when she got off work so um anyway and tina at this point is she's at the horton's boarding home that's where she lives jesus which yeah that sounds like there's like a 75 year old alcoholic men sleep in the hallways it sounds like where charlie and frank live on always sunny that's what it sounds like yeah there's a toe knife somewhere there's a toe knife the whole fucking floor shares a bathroom it's one of those deals and we all play nightcrawler so um anyway uh that night he spent the night with her there at the boarding house what i think he'd spring for a fucking hotel room for christ's sake fuck what's up rich guy sir jesus christ you're buying cars but staying at the boarding house

now you're gonna bring bed bugs home now your wife's really gonna know something's going on holy shit are all bit up in the going to know something's going on. Holy shit. Until her thighs are all bit up in the morning. Oh, yeah. What's going on here? That's not a way to keep the house happy or keep her from knowing anything. Fuck no, it's not. So anyway, yeah, they're doing that.

They spend like the next two weeks just together going like they don't have other things going on in their lives. They go all sorts of places. They go to Mount Holly, Pennsylvania. They go to Reistertown, Maryland. They go to Atlantic City for a while. Oh, yeah. Go up to AC. Do some gambling.

They both have kids. They go to Wildwood as well, which is also Jersey. By the beach, they go to Ocean City, Maryland. Jesus Christ. Oh, it's amazing. It's a world tour who lives like this divorce if you can just do this all the time yeah fuck it i mean jesus so what you have to argue with mary once in a while but this is ridiculous what an asshole so one night the two were out at dinner and he brought it up again he goes you know because she took it as a joke the first time you know anybody who can kill my wife and she was like yeah yeah yeah no why don't you just

divorce her if you don't like her and then he was like that's too expensive and that was the end of the conversation so she he thought it was she didn't think it was a big deal so at this point though one night uh the two of them are out at dinner you know candlelight over the over each other and you're talking and the food maybe they fed each other a bite of theirs you have a bite of mine you know what i mean pour each other some wine and he asked her in an ever so romantic tone he says tina tina darling do you know anyone that couldn't kill my wife and then the souffle came and they ate it. It was lovely. She said, I thought he was joking. And I said, no.

And he said, well, you're from Las Vegas, aren't you? Don't you know somebody? What the fuck does that mean? Just because she's a resident? I mean, yeah. I guess if she's like, she probably worked at Casino. She probably knows somebody. But I don't know if they're going to travel to Maryland to take out some lady.

And it's not like that. The most scummy person I ever met was exploded with a mail bomb. No, I don't know anybody any longer. Yeah, I knew him. But, I mean, somebody blew him up with a mail bomb. You know how it is when your friends get blown up by mail bombs. So I said, quote, no, I don't know anyone who would kill her. Why don't you just get a divorce?

And he said, no, she'll take everything from me. That's that's how it was. So it's worth it. Apparently, she said that she called an attorney that she knew and he called an attorney that he knew to see if, you know, maybe they maybe they wouldn't be that expensive idea. Yeah. Maybe they'll tell you something different. So she said that, you know, she she said, quote, I kept asking him in the restaurant this particular night how much it would take to just divorce her. He said he had lost everything from his first marriage, but he wasn't going to lose it again. Then he asked if I knew someone that would rough her up to make her give him a divorce without asking for everything I had. I thought of dan now dan is dan chatterton that we talked about who she showed her car off to daniel yeah we'll talk

about him in a minute now tina says you know this dan guy he might be the guy for you actually i do know a guy she said funny thing in the past one time a boss of mine assaulted me, which is super common, obviously. And then in return, Chatterton offered to break his legs and arms and burn his house down. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, he's your guy. I mean. Did she let him do it? No, I don't think so.

I don't think so. But he offered. He said, I'll break his arms and legs and burn his house down if you want me to and she was like wow that seems like excessive so because he's a big talker they accept it i guess so um so bobby said well why don't you give him a chat he sounds like the give him a call sounds like the kind of guy we're looking for here yeah yeah sounds perfect so they used a pay phone in mechanicsburg she calls chatterton tells him that she had someone who wants to meet him and that you where you might be able to make some money yeah at this point he's a janitor in a grocery store so at the uh pantry pride grocery

store he's the mopper guy yeah pantry pride so uh he talks to she talks to him, and he said that basically they were going to – we should meet, basically. Let's do it. So the following night, around midnight, they meet, and they talk for a little while. Where do they go? To his house? Outside the pantry pride. Okay. Just when he gets off work his house? Outside the Pantry Pride. Okay. Just when he gets off work.

We'll be next to the handicap. In the grocery store parking lot. Yeah, like right up in front in the loading and unloading fire zone there. Yeah, the yellow stripes. That's all. So they go there around midnight. Tina and Myers drove there. They chatted for a while.

And then I guess Tina went to the car. I guess left the two men to chat about murder together. They did this outside in the open? Just outside, yeah, chatting it up. It's midnight at the groceries. The old pantry pride. No one's around at midnight. All right.

So Tina goes to the car, not because she doesn't want to be a part of this anymore. Myers went over to the car and asked tina hey will you write down my wife's name and write down 46 36 turkey foot road and then write like her age and hair color approximately you know proximate weight just basic stats for you know someone could find and murder somebody with something like that make a fake driver's license. Mine is a picture. Back of the baseball card. Can we do that? Just some... Run down. Make her easily findable.

Throw her college on there. You know. That's it. So a few minutes later, Myers returned to the car and told her to come say goodbye to your friend here. And so she got out and said goodbye. As they were leaving, Chatterton said to bobby myers quote don't forget i want half down and half when the job is finished okay and myers replied that he had to go on a trip but

we'll be back and then yeah we'll take care of business here so that's how okay that's how it works here you got a guy who's happy to commit arson and bone breaking so why not apparently this meeting yielded an agreement to kill his wife mary for ten thousand dollars not bad ten thousand and seventy nine that's good money that's yeah that's at least a real hitman money like if you we've said it a number of times if you if you go to a hitman and they quote you a price and you go that's pretty reasonable that's a cop that's a cop a hitman and they quote you a price and you go, that's pretty reasonable. That's a cop. That's a cop. A hitman should be like, holy, how the fuck am I going to get that much money?

That's what a real person would take to murder somebody, basically. Yeah, and that's why murder doesn't happen much for hire because then you'd have to mortgage your house and that looks suspicious. That looks... looks suspicious that looks for a normal person to be able to pull 50 grand out of a in cash and give it to somebody and then have their spouse die doesn't look good usually right so that's the problem but yeah anything where you go oh that's reasonable yeah that's a cop it's absolutely a cop 100 a cop i didn't know it was so cheap it's not don't do it oh it's not you're you're absolutely going to be arrested now as well. It's totally going to happen.

Cheaper than you thought to go to jail, isn't it? Yeah, a lot cheaper. You fucking dummies. So August 28th, 1979. All right. Bobby and Tina drove to the Myers. This is the one that Mary and Bobby own. The North Winds Hotel or Motel in Ocean City, Maryland.

Real quickly, we should make that a shirt. Murder. If you can afford it, that's a cop. If you can afford it, it's a cop. Yeah. That is not. That's a damn fine t-shirt, James. That's a fucking good one.

That's the funniest goddamn thing you've ever said. It's the truth. If you can afford it, that's a cop. that's a cop if you could afford it yeah unless you go whoa that's why the fuck that's not a cop that's a person who is doing it for at least yeah for at least the retainer on a defense attorney that's what they're doing it for it's got to be 50 100 grand something that i could put down on a defense attorney, not this bullshit. It's also a man who's dangerous and you're wasting his time because you can't afford this. Yeah, you don't want to be window shopping with a murderer.

This isn't a Toyota dealership where you're just looking around to check out the new Camry models. This is murder. This isn't Amazon and dealership where you're just looking around to check out the new Camry models. This is murder. This isn't Amazon and you're just browsing. There's no tire kicking going on here. Either you want death or not. Are you a merchant of death or not, goddammit? What do you want? That's so good.

Oh, Christ, I love it. That's great. Oh, no, I love it. I'm so sorry. It's on Bethesda. Oh, no, it's great. They're at the motel in Ocean City. Ocean City, yeah. Ocean City. And they later went to some woman named Maria Paulos' house, which was located above, I guess, she lives above the Electric Circus Discotheque in Ocean City, Maryland.

Oh, God damn it. sounds like she gets no sleep well she owns the place so she probably doesn't try to sleep till after they're closed anyway yeah no but um the electric circus sounds like a nightmare by the way that sounds loud oh god loud a lot of colors so loud jesus that's all all I'm picturing, but like club speaker level. So when they arrived at this lady's apartment, Myers told Tina to get a bank deposit together with the receipt from the Northwinds Motel. Because they had taken the cash to lie down. And then he asked Maria if he could could lie down he needs to take a little nappy poo here he's a little yeah a little tired stressed out tina asked this maria woman

um that's her name right uh maria palos yes maria um asked maria if she would help make out the bank deposit i don't know why um i guess as this mrs palos mar Maria was pulling money out of a white paper sack, Tina asked if she could freshen up. Yeah. I don't know why. When she came back, Myers was standing talking to Maria, and Bobby said that the bank deposit was ready, and they drove to the bank in Ocean City. At the bank, they met Myers' stepdaughter, Kimberly, the two of them now. He's with another woman, and he meets his stepdaughter who is mary's daughter okay why would he do that i don't know and she's crying when they meet at

the bank she's begging bobby to come home and to call her mother because i guess her mother is very worried and um whatever and there's this is causing strife in the house kids just don't want them just make things stable again that's all kids want call her making my mom cry yeah and stop just making it weird here so he responded with no i'm not calling her okay and then drove away with this fucking girlfriend so wow that night bobby and tina drove to drove to a Howard Johnson's in Pikeville, Maryland, or Pikesville, Maryland. Bobby had the same white paper sack with him folded over. They entered the restaurant at that point, and Chatterton was sitting at the counter. The three of them asked for a table. They ordered breakfast. And then Tina got up, according to her, got up to use the bathroom.

When she returned, she said, this is all according to her. Either way, they went there and this happened. Bobby and Chatterton were finishing up their talking. Then they went out to the car where Chatterton opened up the white paper sack and counted the money. Bobby told him that he was sorry he didn't have the entire $5,000, but he couldn't take it out all at once, because obviously that's suspicious, but I'll be back in a couple days

and, you know... Pay installments. It's installments here. He's taking cash from the motel so he doesn't have to take something out of a bank is what he's doing. Beautiful. So, Chatterton said, no problem. That's fine. Yeah, I do layaway murder.

That's cool. It's great. A little bit down, a little bit every month. No problem. That's cool. Monthly installments like tires. No sweat. So on Sunday, August 26th, 1979, the couple, now I'll call them, Tina and Bobby, drove from Ocean City, Maryland, or from the

Pantry Pride grocery store to Randallstown, Maryland, where they again met Chatterton. Okay? Or it's in Randallstown. So they drove to the grocery store there, from Ocean City to Pantry Pride in Randallstown. Got it. When Chatterton hops in the back seat, Myers handed him a tinfoil package, which is a very strange way to give somebody money. I don't think I've ever seen money him a tinfoil package which is a very strange way to give somebody money i don't think i've ever seen money wrapped in tinfoil before have you yeah uh

in fbi busts when they display it on even though it's in plastic usually not yeah tinfoil but they take it out of the tinfoil that whoever had it wrapped up in it's always a criminal exchange of that money yeah but i've literally never seen it in tinfoil because tinfoil will rip and it'll come out and tinfoil is not waterproof is the other problem. But if you fold it up and shit. Yeah, I guess. Just plastic is more like wrapped in plastic.

He's wrapping it like a leftover turkey leg. Most of the time drug dealers have access to plastic. That's one thing they have. Everything's wrapped in plastic. They have that. But I just picture someone in their kitchen with just a thing of tinfoil tearing it why don't this fucking thing tear never tears right i'll wrap up my murder money after i wrap up the ribs that's all he had a sandwich he took for lunch and then he's like oh i mean i had extra tinfoil it was out i ripped too much for the sandwich. So what the fuck?

So he handed him the rest of the money. Chetterton counts out the money and asked them if they're hungry. And they said, sure. So in the same parking lot, there's a fast food joint and they go there. Perfect. As they were getting ready to leave, I guess Bobby's told him, quote, make sure it looks like an accident or make sure it looks like a robbery. Just make sure it looks like a robbery just make sure it looks like a robbery he keeps telling her telling this guy

so then they drove to Wildwood New Jersey Myers and Tina leaving there August 27th where they went to Resorts International in Atlantic City so that's where we even know from crime and sports that's where a lot of boxing matches take place and shit

Tina visits the friend of her former husband know from crime and sports that's where a lot of boxing matches take place and shit um tina visits the friend of her former husband jesus christ a guy named ted nurick that's the friend not the husband who was working as a pit boss at the casino hilarious she knows all sorts of characters man she knows everybody it's crazy everybody that does like weird things she knows yeah i picture her like sharon in Casino. Yes. You know what I mean? Like a trailer version of Sharon Stone in Casino. Yeah.

So eventually they drive back to the North Winds there, the motel in Ocean City, where Bobby recognizes Mary Root's car parked by where they're staying. They're like, shit, this isn't good. So rather than go in and confront it, they flee, Tina and Bobby. They go visit Maria again, who invites them to stay over. They stayed over despite the floor while they tried to sleep. Fuck, it'll stop eventually right so um august 28th uh uh chatterton just did a day of light stalking this day he was just you know doing some recon uh did some light stalking of mary in ocean city um because she was that's where

she was hanging out and uh never a good time to confront her though. And then attack her. Couldn't quite get it down there. So, um, August 29th, the next day he leaves his job as a night janitor at the pantry. Pride leaves a little bit early. Okay. Um, and ends up driving to the Myers residence. Okay. Uh, so, uh, he drove there now, Tina and,

and Bobby, they get a call, um, at 5 20 AM, uh, telling them that the job's done. Okay. It's Chatterton saying jobs done.

Um, so by prearrangement, I guess Tina went to room four of his motel. And when Myers knew that she got there there he came in the room by crawling through a bedroom window okay he explained that people could see if he used the door and he's pretty sure that his wife is or his stepkids are still scoping him out and like you know he said he's got a whole team on him he thinks of people watching him he's very paranoid it's pretty interesting so

August 28th though he was having a beer in the electric circus this was the day before when it didn't go down they were having a beer at the electric circus there and Myers got on the phone and he hung up the phone and said well he

blew it and they said who and he hung up the phone and said, well, he blew it. And they said, who? And he said, Dan. And Tina said, what do you mean? And he said, well, he's in Ocean City, and we got to go meet him. He blew the whole thing. He couldn't fucking get to her. This is ridiculous.

Chatterton said he wanted to get her in Ocean City. They go to meet him to talk about it, and apparently he's playing with a knife the whole time. He's like twirling it around. He's doing the thing where you stab between your fingers and shit. He's that guy. So doing all sorts of weird shit. Tina ended up going with Maria to go shopping.

So anyway, that's how that goes. Now around 7pm that night, Bobby Myers asked Tina if she would try to get a hold of Chatterton again. And that, you know, Myers, Bobby said he talked to one of his stepchildren and learned that Mary was going to the main house, the Turkey Foot Roadhouse, and would be home alone. This is the time. Yes. Kill her. So at about 4 a.m. August 29th 1979, they were

sleeping, Tina and Myers there. This is when Maria knocked on the door and said, telephone call and she said the voice on the other end said, she's dead, our job's done. She's dead. I shot her nine times.

Oh my god. That's what she said. So they didn't know if it was real or not, though. Like, is he full of shit, wanting the other half of the money? So they recognized it as Dan. That's when they went to the hotel and crawled in and did all that kind of shit. Myers receives a phone call from Jerry Welsh, the manager of the hotel, because they knew he was there. This guy tells Myers that there's some trouble at his home and that he thinks maybe his home got broken into or something,

but he should call the cops or go home and figure it out. So Myers got off the phone. And so anyway, they said that they called a neighbor of theirs. He called a neighbor to go. Have you heard what's going on around there or anything like that? I guess they ended up hearing that there were some rumors that uh mary ruth something's wrong with mary root she had like a medical emergency or possibly something like that they're not sure so there's all this this fucking confusion august 29th yeah august 29th the next

day though employees of the mary Service, their accounting firm, they become concerned because Mary didn't show up for work. Yeah. She's a workaholic. She's there super early. She's going to be late. She's calling and doing work over the phone. You know, it's one of those things. So three employees drove to her house.

They get there. The front doors open about eight inches and music is playing loudly. Which is weird. All of that's weird. None of this matches with Mary. So they end up entering the house. What? They walk in because they've got, well, she's home maybe, I guess.

Music's on, door's open. Mary. Yeah, it sounds like a party's going on. There might as well be a balloon on the mailbox. There might as well be a balloon on the mailbox might as well be a balloon on the mailbox i'm not going in no i'm not nosy okay if i lock on the door i go mary she doesn't answer i'm going back to work and i'm like we're taking two hour lunches today fuck this shit you know what i'm saying like i don't i don't want to find her i'm a bad employee she's in the shower let's go

guys yeah we gotta yeah who knows probably naked in there i don't want to see that she could be railing the she could be railing pino the vineyard master we'd have no idea what's going on no clue not a goddamn clue so anyway they go in there they decide to go in the door and they're yelling mrs myers hey you know hey ruth or mary ruth where are you and she's not answering it's a big house to walk around in too it's a lot so they walk all around finally they go they get to her bedroom and they walk in and they're find a shocking sight here she's lying on her bed with a pillow over her face and a big red spot on her chest, the way they described it.

Um, she has been shot nine times in the head and chest. Wow. Okay. A 10 gauge shotgun with, uh, that's like broken open was lying by the side of her. Okay.

And then a nine shot Astro revolver with eight rounds fired um and a 22 caliber rifle were both found on the floor as well that is a lot of shit going on for one lady um the bedroom looked ransacked uh plants overturned drawers, phone ripped out of the wall. But the problem is there is jewelry and money in plain sight when they walk in. That hasn't been taken. So when you tell someone to make something look like a robbery, take the money, dog. Yeah, they just go around kicking shit over, and they're like, there we go, looks like a trash to place.

But it doesn't look like you actually looked for valuables is the difference. It looks like you just kicked a bunch of shit over. So another murder for hire tip for us. If you can afford it, it's not real. And if you can afford it, it's a cop. And make sure to take the money and jewelry. There you go. So not that we want you to murder, but I'm just saying, this is pathetic.

If it's kicked over, it just looks like a struggle. Yeah. Why would someone robbing a place kick over a plant? What's valuable there, do they think? Wouldn't you check dresser drawers and jewelry boxes before you go kicking plants over? You seen the price of big soil today, James? Oh, God. Jesus Christ.

One of these bulbs, they cost a fortune for plants now. You been to a nursery lately? Fucking ridiculous. So Mary's white poodle was found in the hallway closet. Yeah. Alive and well, right? Oh, alive and well. Just sitting in there in the hallway closet.

Just sitting there being the worst dog. Yeah, being not helpful at all. But we never like the dogs to be killed, so that's good. A chess table in the pool room had been knocked over, like a big chess board. And the gun cabinet in the den had been tampered with. So that's what we have there. That's been knocked over. Gun cabinet tampered with.

But the remaining rooms in the home have been, don't look like they've been touched. Untouched. Untouched. Untouched. Pristine. Kicked over some plants, knocked over a chessboard, and they're like, that looks like a robbery, and walked away. So, not great. This is the other thing, too. If someone is, and no offense if this is your job, because, hey, everybody's got to do it,

but if someone is a janitor at a grocery store in the overnight shift, do it but if someone is a janitor at a grocery store in the overnight shift right they might not have the best skill sets or work ethic to possibly follow through on a big job like this you know what i'm saying yeah they they they just might be kind of a fuck up that's possible he may be uh middle of the night store janitor work quality on everything. Why trust them to get away with the most difficult thing to get away with? Why trust them to do that? When their employer won't even trust them to be seen in the light of day. To be seen by customers. They're like, don't even come in the parking lot until the doors are locked, okay?

We don't want anybody to see you. Come around back back enter through the loading dock you happen to have a ski mask you could come in yeah anything like that maybe maybe wear some gloves look like you're robbing the joint is what we want something like that unbelievable um at the time their the myers their joint real estate assets were worth over $1.5 million just in real estate. In 79. In 79, which is wild. That's incredible.

And due to her will, all the property passes to Bobby upon her death as well. She's been shot nine times in the chest and back. Five of the eight shots pierced her heart. Oh, boy. So, I mean, that's, wow, that's a lot. That's aiming, yeah. That is aiming. And then the other ones were in the fucking head. So, I mean, there was like four in the head, five in the chest.

So, heart and brain is all they were going after there. That's, wow, that's like a mob hit, making sure it's done right. So, anyway, they're over at the motel while this is going on still like we said um now they discover the body they call the police and immediately they start looking for bobby myers to notify him and they can't no one can fucking find him they hadn't seen him at work since august 16th almost two weeks it's been since he's made an appearance at mbs there um he they later found out that he was going with this tina woman and that there's all this strife and uh they talked to kimberly the stepdaughter who says i met him at the bank and he said i won't call her and all

this type of shit so september 1st 1979 the day of the funeral, two days later. Uh-huh. Okay. The day of the, keep in mind, people are still wearing black, okay? Right. Still have black clothes on. Tina moves into the house. Oh, my God. What are you doing? Just take the money out of the bank account with a note that says,

for murder. Why would you do this? Wow. account with a note that says uh murder why would you do this wow um the following week myers gave tina another five thousand dollars to take to chatterton too at the grocery store there when tina arrived she told him hey i got your money and uh he said he'd be in touch uh but don't come near now because there's a lot of heat around and you should get the fuck out of here and don't because you know there was a murder you know murder and all and you just moved into the house like a dumb shit so hey hold on there so uh a week or two later i guess the heat died down apparently

because the meyer meyers and tina are home at their new estate here she went from the boarding house to the big house here and boy didn't she wow that's why very quickly they heard a motorcycle out front yeah like what's going on there it's chatterton with his wife pulling up on a motorcycle oh boy they knocked on the door and said that you know we're here for the balance of my money you owe me some money and um they get inside and they're like you know um they're looking at his wife and looking at him like you know what are you bringing her for does she know why you're yeah like what do i have to do this in private do i go hey dan i gotta show you something and slip it to you in another room and apparently after this goes on for a second dan goes oh no she knows all about it she's aware what no they're everything

no jesus christ what the fuck man now you have to murder two people on your own jesus christ now there's more witnesses murder a man capable of murder and breaking bones and setting fires and his wife perfect god damn it they go well come on down sit in the living room and then they all sit down and he goes well tell me all about it and chatterton goes into extreme detail about how he did it and we'll get into that in a minute too it's fucking ridiculous here um he also apologizes to him to myers cheddarton apologizes to bobby saying i'm really sorry i broke that molding on the back door i'm sorry about that he goes i didn't mean to do that um i had to put the dog in the bathroom and there was a thing and i accidentally broke the molding on the door i apologize you can take it out of my pay the The molding. You murdered a woman.

I shot your wife in the heart five times with that molding, that fucking $1.50 molding that you can get at any hardware store. I really, sorry about that. I really regret that. Yeah. It's a really nice place you have here. Un-fucking-real. Everybody said when she moved in, by the way, the state police were watching him at this point, and they watch a new woman move in. They said there was still blood on the carpet when she moved in.

Wow. Still another woman's blood on the carpet. The woman that she helped murder, and she's like, perfect, moving in lock, stock, and barrel here. Also, the woman who you're replacing, also the woman whose life was cut short in the exact same way that yours will if you start using sex as a weapon in this house yeah watch out um so they apparently she also moved her children and immediately obviously they live with her yeah and uh so that is now nine children in the mix and there'll be more oh boy and also immediately started trying on mary's clothes to see if any of them were worth saving any of these worth keeping yeah what the

are you trying on a dead woman's clothes dude gross that is not cool um at all she also insisted on making some serious remodeling changes in this house. We're going to move this wall. She did not like how Mary kept the house at all. She put, listen to this, not just above the bed, covering the entire bedroom ceiling and mirror. Oh, she is filthy. She's like, I am the classiest filthy fucking chick you're ever going to find. Not just over the bed like some sort of fucking, you know, like some sort of bordello here.

Hall ceiling. Hall ceiling. This is the kid who's going to fuck in the corner. I need it over there. Over there, over by the stereo. I don't want to fuck me over there. But that's just to go, hey, look, look how classy we are. We can afford all the mirror. classy we are we can afford all the mirror and had him install or had somebody install a heart shaped jacuzzi like they're in the fucking pocono's in 1982 or some shit what the fuck are you talking

about what that is ridiculous um absolutely ridiculous um so september 26th 1979 this is three weeks and change after four weeks after the murder they fly down to bermuda and get married oh dear god her headstone's not even up yet it's it's this is way too fast you guys yeah do they not realize that they're raising so many flags what are they doing i guess they feel above the fucking law here. Like, well, we got away with it clean. They think it's a robbery. So what the fuck? I guess it's all good.

I can just go about my business. To investigate a murder. Wow. No. Apparently they're just living in another world. He is living on some sort of insane fucking. He's like drunk with pussy at this point. That's what it is. He's drunk. pussy at this point that's what it is he's

drunk i hate to use that term i know it's gross whatever but he's drunk with pussy it's the only way to describe it yeah it's true yeah he's intoxicated by it he doesn't care he's just he's literally behaving like every desperate man does that gets into a relationship right away this is bad so yeah they fly down to bermuda They get married and all that kind of thing. Now, during this, by the way, Shelley, we'll bring Shelley back into this here because she's about 17 at this time. She said, quote, this is about Tina. She was, what do you call her, a real charmer. She was just as sweet as nice, as sweet to me as anybody could be.

Treated me like a princess for a while. Yeah. Okay. She said gradually, Tina let it be known that Shelly wasn't welcome there. She said they would be going out and it was never the whole family, just Bobby and her. And she would tell me I would not be allowed out of the house. I'd have to stay home and babysit her kids. All the kids, yeah.

Yeah, dad would say, we can get a sitter, but Tina would say no, and I said, she stays here and she's the sitter. And that was that. So she'd say, no, I said her, she's doing it. We don't need to get a sitter, we have one. We have one. So that's how that goes. So, yeah, that's tough with step-parents.

Now, Chatterton, he is a fucking moronon in case you didn't know, by the way. Yeah. He told some guy named Adam Hansha that, um, this is fucking fun. He told him that, yeah, I killed that guy's wife, you know, all this type of shit. Or the guy asked him, did you kill that guy's wife? And Chatterton said this, quote, this is awesome, I'm not going back to the slam,

but if I do, I'm taking two people with me. What? Not going back to the slam, but if I do, I'm taking two people with me. Does he mean Ernie and- Bobby and fucking- And Tina, yeah.

Ernie. Big Ernie. And he says to, and then the guy said, well, he said quote and then he just started sipping his coffee he said who and he just turned away started sipping his god i'm not gonna say that so um september 8th by the way to rewind a couple of weeks 1979 a corporal leet and another maryland state trooper went to see Chatterton at his job. And when asked to describe what that meeting, what happened, Leet described it like this. Quote, we parked our car directly behind the car of Daniel Chatterton.

And when he came out of his place of employment, we exited the vehicle. He looked at us and I, in fact, asked him if he had a gun in the car and he replied no and at that point without any prompting he went over and put his hands on my right front fender of my police car and assumed the frisk position not even what's this all about fellas how's it going don't know what you're talking about he immediately was like well i'm busted yeah you know what i did oh my god so that is fucking amazing by the way that's right out of the report that looks terrible it sure does if a cop walks up to you you just put your hands up and cuff me for me that looks bad you must have done. What did you do wrong, sir?

Wow. So September 1979, also, Bobby reports to his insurance carrier that certain items of jewelry belonging to Mary Ruth had been stolen in this robbery. And he just noticed it. Meanwhile, they weren't stolen, by the way. Tina was wearing them. Tina's wearing them. Are you kidding me? We'll find out.

Other people say that the cops are asking around, and they come up with about 10 different people. 10, Jimmy. Fucking 10 different people that say, for a long time before this all went down, maybe the last year or two, Bobby's told each and every one of these people that he no longer loves Mary, number one, and that he wanted to be rid of her and that a divorce would ruin him financially and that he wished he could just put a contract on her life. Nine plus one.

Nine plus one, people, yeah. Oh, boy. Six plus four equals you're an idiot. This is fucking 10 people? Why are you telling all these people? He was like hinting around to everybody he knew to see if they'd go, well, I know a guy. That's what it was. He was putting feelers out to see if anybody goes, if you're serious about that, I know a guy who actually does that kind of thing.

He said that to three of his friends and then said it to seven more. Seven more. And then even said it to a chick he met at the bar who's the his waitress right this guy is not a good killer he's not bright at this it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So over the next, so some time goes by, there's no arrest. Really? Yeah. They talk to Shatterton.

He goes, I don't know nothing about nothing. Yeah. And they have a bunch of circumstantial, we think he wanted to kill his wife at some point but he said some weird shit to people but there's no nobody's saying he came to me with money in his hand saying you know can you find someone to kill my wife there's no hard evidence of it there's no physical evidence there's no nobody's talking so it's just dan says arrest me but i'm not gonna say anything yeah i mean for dan though he has a criminal record a lot like he gets busted on a gun charge later on. He gets busted for drug charges like he's he probably just thinks up. I did some dumb shit. You know, it's normal for him to get arrested. years okay over this uh tina and myers over the next two years you know uh solidify the relationship tina uh does not work anymore um she spends a shitload of money though and uh makes him spend a lot of money too uh one of her friends described the situation as, quote, she would watch television while ordering

Myers to prepare meals, do the laundry, and care for their child. So, Myers spent about $150,000 renovating the house to her liking and buying her jewelry and a mink coat and all this other type of shit, too.

His business, by the way, is falling apart because he's way more interested in fucking her than he is business so how good does she fuck man that's gotta be wild it's gotta be shit she's she was a pro at one point i mean she's probably got some tricks he's a fucking accountant from maryland like her sex used as a weapon so he was doing some yeah and often this oh god just in the fucking in some weird downstairs bathroom across the house like it's a very sad way over the toilets ah some disgusting yeah some like are like in like the fucking out in the vineyard in the middle of it like a peanut doesn't get up for another two hours these are gonna be jizz grapes that no one will know it but they're all drinking my jizz so yeah it's it's got to be wild man and i think

he's a very mild guy and this is just not the type of person he's ever been with and it's very exciting for him she would like write letters to him all the time every day she wrote love letters to him every day she'd write him love letters and he ate that shit up and he loved it and uh they seem to be happy together put it that way so february 17th 1981 the westminster police here and the state police are following up uh some intensive surveillance and they wiretapped and bugged the Myers home and office. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah.

They listened to thousands of – a thousand hours of telephone conversations and all this type of shit, okay? It's at this time where they pull over Daniel Chatterton and they get him on a gun charge where he has a gun on him. Okay? And they get him on a gun charge where he has a gun on him. Chatterton was driving a 77 Lincoln Continental with an expired registration. That's why he got pulled over. Everybody's got a Continental. Well, this particular Continental had previously been registered to a Robert Myers as well.

It's Bob's old car. It's Bobby's old car. He sold it to him or gave it to him or traded it to him for another murder or who the fuck knows and they find a handgun in the car so now old daniel's going to the to jail here at this point so right after this happens okay like the next day tina myers is charged with bigamy in bermuda what yeah charged with bigamy in Bermuda. What? Yeah, charged with bigamy in Bermuda. She went and got married again? Well, no. According to the warrant, she, when she married Myers,

she was still married. Oh, shit. She was still married to James Marco, a Florida plumber and auto mechanic. Bigamy. And so, yeah. She's now considered a bigamist. Now, weird they arrest chatterton for a chatterton for another charge chatterton makes him sound delicious i want him to be chatterton they are they arrest chatterton for another charge and then like that week all

of a sudden bermuda's arresting tina it's very weird isn't it yeah bermuda calling they want they charge her there july of 81 a few months later tina gives birth to a baby girl oh my god her and bobby's first child wow wait what oh my word um her name is sabrina and by the way here it is jimmy the cherry on top who is this child's godfather, you may ask? Who's that? Daniel fucking Chatterton. Stop that. I hand to God.

That is the... Are you kidding me? You're having the guy who murdered your wife. I guess you're that indebted to him. Anything happens to me, I should... Outside of the mob, when someone murders for you, you then never talk to them again. Separate from them. Get away from each other.

This isn't the mob where you're like, you're all buddies. And then he took out my first wife. He's a good guy. I'm going to make him the godfather. He's a good fellow, this one. That's insanity. He took care of my ex-wife. He'll probably take care of my kid.

Oh, my God. What a fucking dumb shit wow what a weird thing to do italians have the godfather we do that yes they're not italian all right this is the only culture it makes sense in and there's it's it's considered odd you've you've hit me i will now make you my godfather well i mean yeah you could you could depend on that person yeah but you didn't meet him as the janitor at the grocery store that's a guy you've known for fucking 20 years and you've killed people together and stuff you have a lot of shit going on you've done capers together so september 4th 1981 here um so a little bit later. By the way, by September 4th, 81, Tina's pregnant again. Oh, Jesus Christ. Again.

She's still fucking, again, she's pregnant. There's mirrors in the bedroom, James. Of course she's pregnant. Yeah, that's true. She's not going to stop being pregnant. Constant pregnancies here. It's so weird. She's on like an IV of his jizz.

Apparently so. Because that's a quick pregnancy that's july of 81 that's barely the six weeks they tell you not to you know it's irish twins and to let the yeah rebuild the fucking walls you know what i'm saying like that's that's crazy he's re-apesiotomator yeah i'm saying fuck. Fuck, man. Got to refill the pool over here. You don't even need to hit that switch yet. It's already open. Fuck, man. That's brutal.

So that's tough on a body. You're pregnant again, you're like, oh, God. So she waives the right to an extradition hearing and instead flies to Bermuda to face the bigamy charges. Head on. I mean, if you're going to do prison time, it feels like Bermuda might be delicious to do it in. Wait till you hear how not delicious it is to do time in Bermuda. Yeah, wait till you hear that.

So November 11th, 81, Corporal James Leet again, remember that guy from the report of the frisking thing? He names, in his report of the whole thing, names Chatterton a suspect in the death of mary ruth finally to over two years later during a hearing in carroll county circuit court on the gun charge so he brings that up that he is a suspect because he's trying to get them not to not to get bail and as part of that he says we think that he's also a suspect in an ongoing murder investigation so hold him so um at that point though now it's out in the open that they're suspecting him of

that and uh he acknowledged that chatterton myers and tina had all been subpoenaed now to testify before a special grand jury investigating the root the death of m Root. Oh, boy. November 20th, 1981. Robert Myers appears before the grand jury. Yeah. He is shit-faced drunk. He shows up fucking tore up at court. Let me tell you about my dead wife.

Hold on a minute. I got the hiccups. It's a lot. Okay. Hold on a minute. I got the hiccups. It's a lot. What? Okay. It's, I propose a theory that she's actually still alive and she's coming in the door right now. And he points to it. I said now. Now.

I swear she was there last night. I don't know. I saw things. Now. I swear she was there last night. I don't know. I saw things last night. Listen, she's just having a vacation right now. The only thing murdered right now is my liver. I got to stop drinking rubbing alcohol. I see things. Lots of things have you guys had rum with your eggs it's amazing so good so bobby and tina instead outside make

statements to all the media to the newspaper reporters that the police are harassing them and making their lives a living hell yeah they said they've had their photos taken outside their home uh meyer's attorney said that corporal leet is responsible for basically um they find out that he's the one they tipped off bermuda yeah and so yeah they said that that was just was just to fuck with them and this is ridiculous, police harassment and all that kind of shit. So she's still in Bermuda while this is going on. So November 21st, 1981, Bobby flies to Bermuda to be with Tina and their baby who are there. And she's pregnant. So that's-

To be a good dad. To be a good dad. That's when they're arraigned- Mom's better on the beach. She's arraigned for big. So that's. To be a good dad. To be a good dad. That's when they're arraigned. Mom's better on the beach. She's arraigned for bigamy at that point. Three days later, November 24th, Daniel Chatterton tells people that, this is in a grand jury inquiry here, that he's just a happily married father of two girls who's been harassed for more than two years by state police investigators. He's really going to think he thinks he's getting away with it.

This is ridiculous. He's indignant, Jimmy. This is terrible. He says he thinks he became a suspect after police learned he made a phone call in the middle of the night from his townhouse to their Ocean City motel room where he was staying. He said, they claim I called to say I did it, did the murder. But he's like, no, not at all. He said that he's never offered an explanation to the police of the phone call or his whereabouts during the murder, but he will tell a story here.

And he says that you're the only people i've ever given this explanation to he says i just take in all the all the police have to say and hold it that's what it is so um anyway he said while he was working in reister town there on the night shift he said he became acquainted with tina myers who was a frequent shopper she'd come in after work while he was working um she said i struck up a conversation he said she presented herself very well she got a nice rack on and i was like all right this is good she lived in a boarding house how well could she present herself not a bad rack for tree in the morning you know what i'm talking about all right he said that when he saw the woman in the store one night he

mentioned that he was looking for a used car uh t Tina told me that she knew a car I could get at a good price. That's how this all happened. This is so dumb. Hey, nice tits. I'm looking for a new car. You know anywhere I get a new car, a used car? He said he eventually decided on a bigger motorcycle instead of a used car. He said, after I bought the bike, I asked the dealer the best way

to prepare it for the winter. The dealer recommended a nice drive to break it in. For the winter? For the winter? What the hell are you talking about? He said, I don't know what he's doing. I really don't. He said,

so I came home and Tina was holding the car for me with the option to buy. And I told her that I would get back to her as soon as possible. I went out looking for I went out looking to tell her that I didn't want the car. I came back and talked to her on the CB radio. Of course, there's a CB radio. Of course, there's a CB radio involved. It's 1979.

He said that the second call that I got, I got her on the phone. I told her I didn't want the car. It was in the wee hours, anywhere from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. So he called her at 4 a.m. to say he didn't want to buy the car, which seems like something that could wait until morning probably. Hey, good morning. Did I wake you? Hey, nobody's dead.

It's cool. I'm not going to take that car. All right. All right. Okay. All right. I'll talk to you tomorrow. Bye.

Good night. Night. You want to hear a story? So, yeah, and he said that that night I wasn't on my bike because he said they asked him why he looked for her on his motorcycle when he knew she was in Ocean City. And he said that night I wasn't on my bike. I was home. He also said that he contradicted earlier statements by saying, quote, I did take me a little ride on my motorcycle. I looked for her and didn't find her.

So he says like three different times he looked for her and then he didn't look for her. He said, I came home. I puttered around on my motorcycle. I looked for her and didn't find her. So he says like three different times he looked for her and then he wasn't, didn't look for her. He said, I came home, I puttered around on the radio and then I called her for the first time. He said, eventually he got him in ocean city. He said, that's the call. He said, uh, that police think was made to tell Robert Myers, the murder was complete. But of course that wasn't it. I, he said, I met Bobby Myers just after the whole murder thing went down. I didn't even know Bobby before I met Bobby at a birthday party for Tina's children. Okay.

He said that since he, since then he's become close friends with Bobby though. Now we're friends. He said, my, of course I'm the godfather of his fucking daughter. So my personal opinion of Bobby Myers, well,

I think he's a hell of a nice guy yeah i don't think he'd hurt even an animal why would he hurt an animal either i don't care what does that mean i don't even think he'd kick a dog to death i really don't i think he's a decent guy i don't know what his feelings are toward his ex-wife uh but i know her death hurt him quite a bit that's what he said so um and then in court he said he looked at his wife and he said, or I'm sorry, his wife, when she got on the stand, she knew him too. She said, quote, I don't think he would hurt anybody. Well, he won't hurt an animal. And we know that for a fact because he didn't.

He just hurt a woman. But it's all just a woman. Just a woman. That's all. Not like a rabbit or anything. Left the dog unharmed in a closet we had just a woman just a woman that's all not like a rabbit or anything you know left the dog unharmed in a closet but killed a woman killed a whole woman um crazy so he said though that the police have been up his ass he said the police have been on me like hellfire hellfire he said him and his wife list an example a list of examples of why they feel they've been

living in terror he said i personally personally feel like I can't make love to my wife without them knowing it. They sit there with those binoculars and peer through my windows. I see them jerking off out there. I know they're stroking it in the scars. There's a guy behind a bush with his hands down his pants. Damnation. Good God. One guy was filming it. I swear to God, it's harassment. With his hands down his pants. Damnation. Good God.

One guy was filming it. I swear to God, it's harassment. I feel like I can't bang my wife without them knowing it. Oh, man. Can't even bang my wife over here. What the fuck? He said the neighbors just sit quietly, or the neighbors say that they don't just sit quietly out there. The neighbors say that the cops will tell them stories about them, saying, oh, do you know what these guys are, and ask questions and stuff to make them uncomfortable. One time, his wife said an investigator took her brother aside for a chat and said, quote, when he brought my brother back, he was white as a sheet.

He told my brother-in-law that I was a killer, a gangster, bad person oh boy that's what they're telling people here she also said investigators told her the same thing and during a visit and several phone calls claimed her husband had been unfaithful to her as well okay yeah uh quote he uh even told me there could be a contract on my life they told me he was having an affair with a las ve Vegas showgirl and all kinds of things. They hit me with all kinds of stuff. He tried to come up and be my friend. This is her talking about the cop. He tried to save me from the harm my husband was going to do me.

He said, he's bad for you. He's going to get you killed. He told me I could go and start my car up one day and it could just blow up. It could. I mean, yeah, if you're a bail bondsman and a pimp maybe yeah um so yeah they said at work too uh police would come by the pantry pride all the time and um he said quote to keep it going uh to your fellow employees and tell them what an awful person you are it's ridiculous he's just so upset about it He said, if it wasn't for my in-laws and family, I'd be nothing.

I can't even find work. No one will hire me. He says he makes several hundred dollars a week hustling pool and playing poker. That's how he's making a living right now. Jesus Christ. Wow. And then he gets arrested for the transporting of the gun and making a false statement to a police officer. And that whole thing is going on. They found a shotgun in the trunk and a 25 caliber pistol in his pocket of his jacket.

So, yeah. Anyway, this whole thing is going on here. They say that the corporal Leet told him that Myers is trying to set him up. That's what he told me. He was like, he's going to set you up to you. He did this, you did this for him,

but what do you think? He's just going to let you tell on him. And he also told the corporal lead apparently told him according to, uh, Chatterton that quote, if anything happens to Bobby Myers, I'm coming after you. Okay.

Everybody's going to be healthy. Um, he said i asked bobby about the gun this is chatterton or chatterton and uh he said that myers had put the gun in his pocket when he borrowed it to take the trash out to his myers county estate he said that myers simply forgot to take the gun out of his pocket then he hung the jacket back in the car that is not even my jacket i don't know anything about it it's meyer's jacket you know how that goes here so um yeah anyway um he says uh um it's so fucking ridiculous he says that uh um i i i'm surprised to myself i haven't lost my temper um and his wife said he's a real gentleman really he really is my husband yeah then cheddar didn't said i'd like to speak with corporal leet for a few minutes and

rip his face off but then again but then again i wouldn't hurt anybody okay gotta add that i would never hit those guys those state guys for doing their I just think, it's just that they think I think I would. I don't know what the fuck that means. So, yeah, it's a lot of thinking. He said that he would welcome a trial at this point, but, you know, they just need to get this over with and charge him and stop or don't charge him and leave him the fuck alone and all this type of shit. him and stop or don't charge him and leave him the fuck alone and all this type of shit so november so anyway the grand jury returns murder indictments against chatterton bobby myers and tina oh oh yeah we'll talk about that all three of them um uh by the way the state's attorney's office says it will recommend the death penalty for all three holy shit so november 25th 1981

robert myers is had flown to bermuda to spend thanksgiving dinner with his wife that's what he went there for he said he took a turkey and everything now teen is being held in a jail cell there she on november 30th she pleads guilty to bigamy and receives you ma'am may off, a two-year jail sentence. Wow. In Bermuda. Bermuda. You can do that, but you can't, don't you dare disappear a white girl.

You'll get away with it, Scott Frey. Fucking Jesus Christ. Is that where that chick disappeared? I don't remember. One of those fucking, I don't remember. One of the islands. Probably Bermuda. Yeah.

So she's transported to the United States at one point. So the marriage to Myers is now nullified, by the way. So now she's not married to him anymore. The state police entered into a secret agreement with Maryland and Bermuda authorities to have her extradited to the island in April of 81 to begin with. And that's when she went and stood the charge anyway. of 81 to begin with and that's when she went and stood the charge anyway um she was put in a what they called a dank prison cell with a woman who is known as a very tough woman who'd been charged with running cocaine through the caribbean so they put her in there now um the woman her name was diane culp and she isn't someone running cocaine through the Caribbean.

She's an undercover officer trying to get information out of her. Oh, fantastic. So it's her job to get her to talk. Diane is in the cell. When Tina comes in, she came in with furs and jewelry on. We'll talk about that. She thought that, you know, basically she thought that the way she thought about it, Tina thought she was going to a hotel, basically. That's the look, but she's in fucking jail.

The cell is 10 by 10 with no windows, toilet, or sink. Makes that Rikers shit look amazing. Makes Rikers look like heaven. And a roommate. Yeah, and no vineyard. Yeah, and no vineyard. It has two metal beds, a small sliding panel in the door for the guards to serve the food that they give them. The guards down here also, they serve them hot dogs, bread, and rice. That's what they get. How many mirrors are on the ceiling?

Very few, actually. Fewer than you'd think. The guards beat prisoners even for talking back down there as well apparently so this uh culp here sergeant diane culp is her name she's placed in the cell with no contact from the outside and all that kind of shit um you know it's she's there she uh this is fucking amazing she said that it's rough down there the the culp lady said that in court she once saw a judge give a guy five years in prison with no parole for sleeping on a park bench holy they're rough down there um he said she said that the only people that knew her undercover role were the

attorney general and the chief of police so she was getting worried after a while that they would still know who she was she wouldn't get stuck down there forever she said she worried after a while that they would still know who she was. She wouldn't get stuck down there forever. She said she worried that the police had forgotten about her, but they didn't. And she was successful because Tina talked about everything, the homicide, her direct knowledge of it. She even trusted this Sergeant Culp so much that she said that when she gets out of jail to give tina a call and we'll me and my husband will hire you and give you a good job and so much she trusted her so finally all the charges come down here like we said they indict everybody all this shit goes on myers was in bermuda bobby when the indictment was handed down and um he had to return to maryland um they

flew down corporal leet flew down to Bermuda to get him. They escorted him back on the return flight. They didn't arrest him until they landed on the plane in Maryland, obviously. He had his coat draped over his head, hands cuffed in front of him, and they led him through the airport terminal there. Oh, boy. He was laughing and answering reporters' questions outside while they walked him out doing the perp walk um he said that his wife and child are in bermuda everything's fine and um yeah he said i just went to thanksgiving i went down there for thanksgiving i brought a

turkey down there um you know he said i never thought i'd be indicted this is ridiculous fucking stupid now i'm here so he's held without bail as well. Yeah. So is Chatterton, and he's moved to a different county detention center, so they're not in the same one. So anyway, Tina is going down there. She's in Bermuda in jail, telling her, spilling her guts to a fucking cop. Sergeant Colt, yeah. December 3rd, 81, her bail is reduced from $750,000 to $100,000.

Okay. And she's ordered to be held at the Baltimore City Jail instead of out where they are. So they want them all in different places. December 15th, 1981, civil lawyers for Bobby Meyer say his accounting business is on the verge of collapse and his estate, valued at more than a million dollars, is being liquidated to pay off more than half a million dollars in debts that he's oh no bad stuff yeah he's fucked up bad this is don't buy furs and jewelry or can go away so january 2nd 1982 they have an auction um they have an auction at his house they they give he and tina give this philip sutley an attorney power of attorney and uh to

sell off all their shit a thousand people show up wow it's a bit on their shit because it's like the nicest house around so they all want to see this mansion oh yeah somehow though they only got thirty thousand dollars for a bunch of items here they didn't sell everything but 30 grand for their items here everybody just wanted to see the ceiling mirror. Literally, that's what it said in the newspaper. That's what I would want to see. People just wanted to see what a whole fucking ceiling mirror would be like. It's weird.

I don't want to bid on anything. I just want to see where their fuck dungeon. Yeah, just gawker, looky-loo fuck dungeon, Taurus. That's all. Fuck dungeon, Taurus. February 9th, 1982, the judge grants the prosecutor's request to move the trial to Garrett County. Now, yeah, anyway, this is from Meyer's attorney during this time. They have the one guy and then they have this attorney. He says, quote, the trial had been moved to Oakland in Garrett

County. Oakland, a town of 2000 people, is perched near the top of a 2,500-foot mountain in the Appalachian Range, part of Western Maryland. Myers filed an appeal to the Court of Appeals in order to have this case returned to Carroll County, since I, for one, felt strongly that if the state's attorney did not want it in his home ballpark for whatever reason, I would prefer it to be there rather than up with the mountain people. Up with the mountain people. You know what that's about. He's heard our fucking show before, man.

I'll tell you what. Mountain trash, James. Oh, my God. Mountain people. Hill trash. So March of 1982, Tina is six months pregnant, by the way, now with this. Here she sat. This is March 23 pregnant, by the way, now with this here. She sat. This is March 23rd, 1982.

She sat holding hands with Bobby in court, whispering in each other's ears while the lawyers talk about shit. The next day is a little bit different. The next day, they're not together. And rather than enter her normal way, she comes out of judges chambers and she's not cuffed anymore. She's earning her way out and she's not cuffed anymore oh she's earning her way out she's not cuffed um the lawyer says quote i had to explain to bobby that she had in fact double crossed him which in turn meant she was pushing him to the gas chamber and tears ran down bobby meyer's face and he said he understood understood the scope of his wife's decision. She made a deal. Oh, that woman. Like that.

That goddamn woman. She made a deal. Yep. She made a deal to admit that she arranged the meeting between the two of them, testify against both of them, Chatterton and Bobby. But the charges against her were null prost, which means not going to happen, in exchange for her testimony. Wow. Yep. March 24th.

It's fucking amazing. They announced that that's how it works. They struck a deal with the prosecutors, and she gets full immunity. Unbelievable. Full. That's full immunity is a little much here. That's crazy. I mean, giving her a deal is a deal.

Yeah. Dropping her to manslaughter or some shit like that or just conspiracy. But what the fuck? One guy did cold-blooded murder. We want to testify against him. The other guy wanted cold-blooded murder done. Sure. But the person who made those things happen also has to get something.

Not as much as them, probably, but something. The whole thing does not happen without her. Oh, no, she's the cog. He didn't know anybody to kill. He asked 10 people, and they all said, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Do you mean murder? Yeah, he was, after 10 people,

you're way at the end of the bench. You're not going to let any of those, you're not going to trust any of those people to do it. Yeah, so her lawyer now, by the way, they were sharing the same lawyer. Now their lawyer is her lawyer. Oh, damn it. Yeah, he went with her. It's like a wrestling angle.

He went with the champ now and dropped his old guy here. He says, quote, I spoke with my client last night. She he says, quote, I spoke with my client last night. She told me of her involvement in the murder and has been granted total immunity to testify against Robert Myers and Daniel Chatterton. Holy shit. They asked Robert Myers his reaction to this. And he said, I just heard about it this morning. I don't know exactly what she said.

She lies. She'll do anything to save herself. I know this. I know nothing about the crime. He's denying it denying it yeah here's the other part james and i already know what's coming because that's fucking incredible there she may not be married to him but those are his children and she is entitled to money from that estate too oh it gets very interesting oh it's gonna get so muddy and ugly holy shit so during daniel's trials first by the way his trials pretty pretty quick um and um his this is fucking funny his lawyer in the closing says as you look at daniel chatterton the fundamental question is is he a

cold-blooded killer or just a buffer of pantry pride floors wow quote his worst break was running into tina myers it's true and uh anyway he is found guilty of murder and they sentence him to you sir may fuck off life in jail with no parole but not the death penalty he was up for the gas chamber no death penalty um so yeah now in june myers case gets returned to carroll county the appeal worked he got away from the mountain people apparently so um now 1982 while jesus he's an idiot bobby bobby has a big fucking mouth bobby's in jail a guy named thomas Bowman talks about incriminating conversations between Myers and Chatterton that he overheard in jail Jesus Christ are you kidding me in March of 82 why would you talk at all just shut the fuck up oh my god this is when they were in the same one briefly

this guy related to the jury later on uh to a court that Chatterton told Myers that Tina is going to have to shut up. She's going to have to get taken care of and gotten rid of before she makes a deal with the state's attorney. Holy shit. So they were talking. The two of them were like, she's going to make a deal. We're both going to be fucked. We got to figure this out because if without her, there's no link between us and everything's fine. Except for that.

I'm your, you know, I'm your daughter's godfather and I'm driving your old car. So Chatterton, this guy Bowman, said that Chatterton went on to say that he could arrange to have a person hired, quote, to take care of this and shut her up. If Myers came up with money, $20,000 or $30,000. The price has gone up here, inflation. It's getting more and more expensive. So Myers was in court while he heard this. Bowman said that he heard Myers interject, quote, I know we shouldn't have gotten into this mess to begin with.

I know we shouldn't have called her there to the house. I know they'd i i know they know it was me um and chatterton then said well that's the only place i could get a clean shot at her that's the only place without any witnesses or anything like any there's nothing i can do about it so they're literally having the worst conversation you could have ever in this in this in front of people chatterton's the perfect name for this son of a bitch yeah it's with d's but it's chatter still he's chattering he's chattering like a motherfucker fucking chattering it up um so i guess after that this guy said that that uh uh chatterton uh or that

bowman just looked at bowman at uh bobby not bowman bowman's the guy talking. Bobby just looked at Chatterton and didn't say anything. So September 82, some pre-trial shit very quickly. Myers fire files a pretrial motion for appropriate relief in which he alleged that the state knowingly cashed in on what Myers perceived to be the unethical conduct of his ex-attorney, Philip Sutley, who got his wife a deal. According to Myers, who counseled both of Tina and him during the period of the time the deal was consummated, in which Tina agreed to be a prosecution witness against Myers and Chatterton in exchange for all charges to be dropped, Myers asserts that the state abetted what he believes to be Sutley's professional misconduct toward Myers. He's got a point there.

I'll be honest. Like, legally, he's got, it's a pretty shitty thing to do. Anyway, either way, the trial opens up here. People, this is the biggest thing in town, by the way. Oh, yeah. It's huge. Bigamy, fucking, it gets even weirder, too, once we get into court here where it's going to be wild. So people are there.

It's a 9.30 a.m., 10 a.m. trial. People come at fucking 6 o'clock in the morning to be able to get in. It's the same thing they do with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial when that was going on. They lined up at like 3 in the morning. This is like OJ. It's fucking crazy. And that's in Virginia. People were there waiting at fucking 3.15 in the afternoon to get in to see the verdict.

How did you drop everything to get in to see the verdict. How did you drop everything to get to the court? They just ran there. That was wild, man. That was crazy. One woman they talked to at Kathy Goodwin of Sykesville said, I got up at 5.30 in the morning to be here. And she said that she didn't even get a ticket to get in. She said there was only 50 tickets for spectators and she was 54th in line oh damn it that's it she said my husband gets up at 4 30 if i'd have been smart i'd have

gotten up with him well yeah so they just hang out in the hallways they said that she just hung out in the hallway talking to other people who couldn't get in and cross-stitching so she just cross-stitch and talk late cross stitching and talking about a murder trial baby this is like and then they found murder it goes together very well i was gonna say if this was you know 30 40 years 40 years later they'd be putting on the small town murder podcast and listening in this all so um anyway and another another woman edna mccart she was eating a hamburger and fries and listening to some other guy who's a horse trainer who he saw the morning testimony but couldn't get a ticket for the afternoon. So he's holding court telling everyone what happened in the afternoon.

That guy said he got in, but his son didn't. So he had to leave his son outside, which is fucking hilarious here. Now he's the town crier. Hear ye, hear ye. Let me tell you all something. They dismiss a juror during this part of it. A juror named, I guess, a prospective state's witness named Glenn Ross told the judge of the case that a juror, John Rummer, had discussed the case with the state's potential state's witness at a local restaurant. So they had talked about it.

And so the judge removes the juror from the jury and replaces him with one of the alternates. So that's how that goes. Myers does not testify on his own behalf. on his own behalf okay um he does argue in the opening closing statements and through what they're doing basically that he his whole case is i didn't know anything was going on i didn't know there was a scheme to murder ruth tina must have been jealous and didn't want me to give her any money because she wanted to live the lifestyle so she probably just had her friend kill my wife that's probably what happened yeah she was super so the only person that knows him is her, so obviously it's her.

That's it. She's motivated by Tina's desire to marry him. That's how it works. That's what he said. Myers sought to place into evidence stock certificates and securities that were purchased in the name of Mary Ruth Myers in 1977 and 1978. He's saying, why would I buy her long-term financial securities if i thought she'd be dead by then that's silly right well probably because you'd get them anyway so what

do you fucking care anyway that's his thing though why would i buy her things if she was going to be dead anyway you know christ if if she's bought a pair of shoes in the last year, I'm not guilty. That's how it works. So Myers also said that the securities in her name were relevant to contradict the theory that killing his wife would be too expensive. He argued that the jury could conclude that it would be nonsensical for him to permit him to purchase these securities with his money if he intended to kill her. Just ridiculous. Also, the jailhouse conversation. They're talking about whether that comes in or not, that Thomas Bowman's conversation. Now, they object on the grounds of hearsay. Okay.

Now, hearsay, by the way, speaking of that, I saw a lot of people confused in trials of what the fuck hearsay is. There's a lot of confusion. So let's go over it here. He asserts, Myers asserts that the admission into evidence violates his federal constitutional right to confront his accuser. That is an out of the court declarant, Chatterton, who said these things. Here's the quote. Quote, the hearsay rule forbids evidence of out of court assertions to prove facts asserted in them manifestly proof of utterances and writings may be

made with almost infinite variety of other purposes not resting for their value upon the veracity of their out-of-court declarant and hence falling outside the hearsay classification yeah it's fucking anyway so uh the matter here uh proffered that chatterton's remarks were not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted therein but to show the effect they had on myers so they went around the back door on that one so they they ended up he's calling these remarks admissible on the basis that it's uh to place meyer's responsive conduct in context that is some legal fucking hair splitting right there is what that is that's legal hair splitting it wasn't meant we're not entering this to prove that he killed just because they were saying during this conversation that they killed a woman, that's not what we're proving.

We're just proving what his reaction was to this. We're putting it to the news of this. It's just for context. It's just for context, which is wild because in that statement. We murdered somebody together. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So it says chatter chatterton's remarks concerning the need to eliminate Tina as a witness were admissible to show Myers reactions to the assertions by nodding in the affirmative. Myers adopted chatterton's remarks as his own declaration by an accused that is that he intends to intimidate or procure the absence of the absence from the trial of a state's witness is admissible as evidence of the accused's guilt. So they went right around hearsay. That's fine. Tina's testimony is the fun part. Okay. First of all, let's talk about how the paper describes her because they have a fucking field day with her, boy.

Oh, my God. Here we go. Quote, Madame Marco, because now her last name is back to her other married last name, which is Marco. Madame Marco wore a black knit suit of light wool with delicate white braids at the cuff, collar, and hem. She wore a lovely pleated peach blouse and black boots with spike heels. And she was adorned, testimony disclosed, with $8,700 worth of gold, diamonds, and sapphires, all gifts from the man she was now fingering for murder. I had to put fingering in there. The courtroom lighting was exquisite, almost theatrical yesterday.

Two ceiling lamps were trained directly on Tina's handsomely trimmed auburn hair. The jewelry glittered. The round earrings danced. She slung a fox boa over the witness stand or chewed juicy fruit or filed her nails. Madame Marco could not have played the part of conniving dame more convincingly. She pouted, giggled, and batted her eyelashes, dropping her head, raising her head,

pursed her lips, looked severe, adjusted her skirt, crossed her legs, clasped her hands looked severe adjusted her skirt crossed her legs clapped clasped her hands like she did all these nails outside of the filing her nails they just described a bunch of people things she did she looked around she adjusted her clothes she crossed her legs clasped her head that's what human beings do she used to do with this weird thing her chest kept going up and down breathing that's what it's called yeah in and out it's so stupid i can't believe she filed her nails on the stand that's fascinating in between when there's like a you know sidebar or something they're up there for 10 minutes

sometimes yeah i couldn't give a fuck about this i am nope this does not affect me me and my fur coat are gonna go somewhere else it says quote she spoke in an earthy candlelight voice, the kind of voice heard across a thousand nights in smoky bars. All was proffered, of course, in an effort to convict Robert Lee Myers of murder and to save her own soft white skin. They go on to say, not this is the evening sun, by the way, Baltimore. Not once did she glance at the formerly chunky man who now looks like a withered Rod McEwen. I don't know who the fuck that is. You know, he's an actor, isn't he? I don't know.

I don't know who he is. Rod McEwen. I don't know. Who looks like a withered Rod McEwen in a frumpy check jacket and wrinkled chinos. He's dressing like a used car salesman as well. Not chunky anymore, though. They describe her like fucking Rebecca De Mornay. Oh, absolutely.

They're describing her like some sort of glamour thing, and he's just like a chunky, fat, used car salesman who's skinny from jail. It says, not once did she glance at him. No, Tina only looked when the prosecutor, Thomas Hickman, asked the question. All prosecutors love to ask their star witnesses just before concluding the direct examination. Do you see the man you've been referring to in this room today?

There was the quote. Then there was kind of a breathless drama. The spectators and Judge Luke Barnes's snug courtroom have known only from afternoons with one life to live and all my children. Tina washed her moment under the lights and soap she pulled her plumpy her plump pouty face up and raised her right hand and brushed it toward robert lee myers the blonde haired gentleman she said and then tina sighed heavily and deeply and painfully. Oh, my God. She's dramatic. The gold wristwatch, estimated to be worth $3,200, twinkled beneath the ceiling lamps.

That's what she's wearing. They said, quote, Tina Marco has large eyes that appear to have seen everything and to be bored by most of it. At times, her meticulously shaped brows whip it up whip up high her nose turns up a little her chin is a nub at the bottom of a round wide face that by candlelight might be considered not bad looking oh yikes that was cold nice they said if it's super dark and there's just one dim flickering light she could i guess you could consider that attractive that not not even attractive not bad looking not bad looking what the fuck man you know what though she got off on she got no charge yeah that's that's what you got you got everyone's gonna make fun of your

dipshit ass in the paper for how you look and for how you do anything because you're not going to jail um there is not a single hard angle on her body in other words she's she's round she's a little roundish um madame marco often displayed an appreciation for the finer things in life she testified to having us having had a sitting room in the myers house converted into a large walk-in cedar closet oh cedar cedar she kept her furs, jewelry, and Robert Myers gun collection locked in the closet. Remember in Overboard, Goldie Hawn said, oak, are you stupid? Everybody knows closets are made of cedar. Right, that's where I went.

She's fucking overboard. She turned into Goldie Hawn in Overboard. Roy. She's a chubby Goldie. Oh, my God. She said, and there were times, Tina said, when she'd go into the spacious closet and sit at my desk and look out. Here was a woman whose idea of getting away from it all was sitting in a closet full of furs, guns, and diamonds. That's the quote.

Yesterday, she wore two rings, one valued at $1,175, the other at $4,325. One valued at $1,175, the other at $4,325. At the request of the defense attorney, Anton Keating, she held them up for the jury to see, and she did not seem embarrassed by the display. The jewels had come from Robert Lee Myers. She said, quote, it was a monthly thing, almost a weekly thing. He'd buy her jewelry. So the attorney asked, you're very fond of jewelry. And she said, most women are. Quote, then she, this is great from the paper.

Quote, oh, this is about her. Oh, Mary Ruth hadn't done much with the house, Tina said. The walls were bare. This is what she's testifying to. The walls were bare. That's why she had to decorate it. The walls were bare. The furniture would never make house beautiful. And the china was sort of cheap.

And Mary Ruth had, quote, a lot of costume jewelry. furniture would never make house beautiful and the china was sort of cheap and mary mary ruth had quote a lot of costume jewelry i couldn't even wear a dead woman's jewelry because it was fake i had to get real shit all this bullshit mary ruth didn't have much in the way of clothes either tina said so she quote bagged them and gave them to some friends unreal wow that is fucked up she also says she uh hopes to make more than a quarter of a million dollars by telling her version of the murder conspiracy that could send her husband to the gas chamber whoa she is a she's as cold as the fucking author of this story fucking a uh her revelation came during cross-examination on the second day of her testimony against her husband. Blah, blah, blah.

Wow. Marco, who's been granted immunity from first-degree murder charges in exchange for a testimony, said her lawyer has been negotiating with publishers for rights to a book she said she's been working on since shortly after the killing of Mary Ruth Myers. She said the lawyer, Philip Sutley, estimated it's still that guy. He's in for this, too. That guy should be fucking disbarred. Jesus Christ. I don't know if that's true or not, but in my opinion, he should be disbarred. This is gross.

He estimated that the publisher could pay as much as $250,000 for that book. And she said she's also negotiating for appearances on television shows, such as the Phil Donahue program, Good Morning America, and People Are Talking. I don't know what that one is. Very difficult, I imagine. When defense attorney Anton Keating suggested she was trying to exploit as much money as

possible from the murder, she turned and frowned at him. Quote, I have four children to feed i would like to get my life sorted out mr keating it takes money to sort out your life well two years ago you live in a fucking boarding house and you dig out a long fine so this is crazy he also uh the lawyer introduced letters tina wrote that had sketches of two jail guards and a chaplain leading a man to the gas chamber quote it was a joke about mr myers is what he the lawyer said um he said it's don't you think that's callous and she said quote callous no no i don't uh no uh she said i know but i have to detach myself um yeah you have to

detach myself she said and the lawyer said but you have to look out for yourself. And she said, someone has to. Well, now he's going to jail. So fucking the prosecutor did. He looks certainly looked out for you. Then they asked him. They asked her, do you still love Robert Lee Myers? Then another long, breathless pause. I'm not sure, she sighed as the gold earrings danced as she shook her head and pressed it against her hand. They love having her do this shit, man. This is crazy. And it gets better. In other testimony in the Carroll County Circuit courtroom trial, Marco said she has become romantically involved with a 24-year-old Garrett County deputy sheriff who was guarding her while she stayed in the Garrett County lockup earlier this fall.

Un-fucking-real. Quote, his name is Roger White, she said with a smile. Marco read from a letter she wrote while staying in the jail. Quote, one deputy has just started flirting with me. He has blonde hair, six feet, and a good body. She read it as she broke into giggles

marco giggled and laughed so loud during much of her testimony oh my god she regained her composure and discussed her continuing problems in 1979 when she lost and then regained custody of her children when the children finally moved into the myers home after she and myers were married she said quote bob was a good father she said that she only decided to turn state's evidence for several reasons. Quote, the first being is that when I sat during the pretrial hearings and heard the testimony of certain witnesses, I felt like I was going to drown with them. Yeah, because you're involved in it. The second being that I was pregnant and I had three children and to think I would never

be able to touch them again i was just plain tired of living a lie wow um what a horrible um then they said why did you ever get involved in a murder and she said i don't know i just don't know oh my god that is fucking i know why because a big house is better than a boarding house. Yeah, I think so. And she goes on to say, I thought of Dan when he said she needed somebody and blah, blah, blah. So under cross-examination a little more, because she described her earlier, her acquaintance with Chatterton as, quote, brother-sister relationship. Right. But then she later on says that the relationship, it was intimate at one point, but only for a week or two. You know, like you fuck your brother just for like a week or two and then you stop you know how everybody

does that oh my god so she said that they used to meet in parking lots of the reester town pantry pride store where he worked as a floor washer and he would bang her out in the parking lot yeah yikes uh she said she talked to him um she talked to chatterton while Myers fetched some donuts quote. When Bob got back, I sat in the car and that's when they made the deal for everything. She said that Myers came back to the car, asked for paper so he could write down Mary roots description and address. Um,

and she said that, you know, a little while later that was that. And she heard him say, don't forget to make it look like a robbery and all that shit. She's the one that testifies to the $5 dollars and all that kind of crap um so photos come in with her a quote on the bottom of the photo of herself dressed in a lace wedding gown she wrote to mrs horton that she deeply loved mr myers she identified the photo as me and my wedding gown she blinked and seemed to wipe away

a tear as Mr. Keating read her words. Dear God, please bless this forthcoming marriage till death do us part. Another photo showed the witness with a Bible in her hands. The diamond wedding ring, Mr. Myers gave her resting on the book's cover. The wedding photos were not the only snapshots discussed yesterday. Mrs. Myers drew a gasp from the silent, attentive courtroom crowd when she answered yes to a question about whether she ever carried photos of nude men in her wallet. What? Apparently, she's just got a bunch of pictures of random nude guys in her wallet that she keeps. That's hilarious. Yeah.

They said, why do you do that and she said yes i almost always do i like to look at them well yeah cool why do i because i don't have instagram yet yeah there's no such thing as porn fucking hub or whatever the fuck anymore so or till then yet yet it's coming so um yeah she uh this uh quote she drew a steady stare from her husband one of the few times he looked directly at her which is fucking amazing um when um also that's when she admitted to that she had sex with Chatterton, basically. She she talks about the whole thing. She said this is what she was told that how the killing went down. He locked the dog in a bathroom and then went in the family room where he sat in the dark and lit a cigarette.

OK, that's this is what Chatterton did. Yeah. Well, it's the 70s. Everybody smoked in their house. So she, meaning Mary, came down the hall and called bobby is that you bobby is that you she said that um mary saw the glow from the cigarette and turned on the lights and he told her quote i'm a friend of bobby's she said she didn't expect him that night and he said he would wait he just showed up in the house unannounced sat in the dark smoking and was like i'm a friend of your husband's well he's not here right now i'll wait he's blowing out to be like i don't know when i'll be back i'll be here when he does then quote he told her it

was a nice house and he asked to see the rest of it he took her by the arm and led her around the house when they arrived in the den off the master bedroom where a gun cabinet was located, Mr. Chatterton pried open the case with a knife and loaded a.22 caliber pistol and a.22 caliber rifle. He said he walked Mrs. Myers down the steps from the den into the master bedroom. He told her to sit on the bed and then he looked around. There was a telephone on the dresser and he ripped the cord out of the wall. She asked what he wanted and he said that Bob owed him some money. She asked how much and he told her not to worry he'd get his money he asked her to lay down on the bed and if she believed in god to pray that's horrible oh my god at least surprise her say hey look over there and then shoot her in the back of the fucking head if you're gonna do

it don't be a torture somebody pray then he shot her in the back and and she turned over and said you're killing me and he said that's right honey and continued to shoot oh my god jesus christ um yeah uh that is fucking wild uh the prosecutor later on says at the time you met this is to tina at the time you met chattertonton at Pantry Pride and introduced Myers and Chatterton, he said, was drinking going on then? And she said, yes. Prosecutor said, were you all intoxicated? She said, not falling down. I mean, we'd been in much worse shape than that before.

So this is because later on they're going to bring up alcohol intoxication as an issue here. So Tina Myers also said that Bobby is not the goody two-shoes that everyone thinks he mean he is they say what do you mean by that she says it wasn't just mary ruth that he wanted killed and uh they said she said why do you they said why do you say that she said quote because i overheard dan chatterton and bob myers discussing to kill Corporal Leet and yourself, meaning the prosecutor, and two others. Holy shit. They're going to kill everybody. At that point, the defense counsel objects, asks for a mistrial.

The judge instructs the jury to disregard that testimony. It turns into a circus at that point. So, yeah, she talks about that she was living at this point, too, during cross-examination. Myers' counsel asked Tina that he wants to talk about the statements that Tina made to Myers that while she was living in Nevada, she'd been involved in or had knowledge of individuals who were taken into the desert and murdered. So that ends up coming up. They also come up with her her credibility they talk about her

quote flim flam credit card scam in california flim flam artist um yeah tina admitted that before becoming a state's witness she deliberately started a false rumor that the state's attorney had asked her several times for a date her purpose in doing so is to cause disqualification of the prosecutor she's told no truths here what's so fucking ever uh they bring in the insurance people to talk about the jewelry that was never stolen um there is uh they try to bring in some sexual stuff about bobby that he was fucking other women around the the neighborhood basically he's plowing the whole silver run at this point they're saying anyway they got him pretty fucked even if they don't get her verdict comes in guilty obviously he's guilty uh sentencing uh shit they want the death penalty he said well

the my co-defendant didn't get the death penalty. That seems silly. The prosecutor referred to him as a, quote, cold, cruel, and barbaric man. There's been absolutely no remorse shown by Mr. Myers in this case. He maintained that nothing would have happened to Ruth Myers if Robert Lee Myers had, in fact, not wanted her dead and all that kind of shit. Aggravating factors are it was a money thing, obviously. Mitigating factors are that his co-defendant was sentenced to life in prison. And one was sentenced to nothing. One was sentenced to spending his money.

The second one was the deal offered to Tina Myers in exchange for her testimony. So the judge comes back you sir may fuck off life without parole yeah so no death penalty thank you that's that's good yeah that's appropriate um yeah uh he says that there's going to be an appeal uh he says quote the jury was wrong i'm innocent i did not not want Mary Ruth to die. I didn't plan it. I didn't pay for it. He said that he is stunned to learn that Tina was part of the murder. He said, quote, I was a fool.

I was a fool many times in my life, but I never hurt anybody. You may wonder about my jovial nature. It's based upon my faith that God has determined all things. But I want to thank you, Judge Burns, for the sentence. I feel strongly and believe that you'll do what's with the will of God. And he gives him. There you go. So quickly appeal is on.

They didn't allow the jury instruction of defense of voluntary intoxication. They said because the only evidence that there was any intoxication was her saying you were a little tipsy. On the night, that's only on the night you gave him the deposit. Right. That's not, yeah, that's not the day of. It's not any of that shit. Another one is there's some juror problem. That's an issue.

A very minor jury problem about somebody who felt very strongly about the death penalty. It was one of those deals. Another one here was the assault about they allowed into court the testimony that he choked his stepdaughter that time. So they want that to be thrown out of court here. And they said that basically it was insignificant compared to the pile of evidence against him it was very insignificant and the judgment is quote affirmed with the costs for court to be paid by him as well oh yeah he got he got banged putting the ass right in prison and also got hit in the wallet on that one so burner yeah

there you go everybody she's nothing and those two are in jail forever wow and she's she's about what 70 years old at this point and uh who knows so she's got everybody then right she had to have been there's no well you know what though if she has money maybe not maybe not nowadays when she wants to sit and be happy she sits in a fucking giant room and looks at her furs and diamonds you know what i mean like yeah she got right into that lifestyle she doesn't need to go out to bars and do all that thriving just enjoying thriving so i don't know it's wild well that's silver run slash westminster maryland what a story fucking crazy story man these goddamn crazy people big of me and everything else naked pictures in a wallet odd so uh anyway that is that if you like

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We're excited. Come drive in from somewhere and see us. It's going to be fun. Let's go play New Orleans together. Let's do it. Yeah, do that right now. Also, you can follow us on social media very easily. Go to shutupandgivememurder.com is the website. Social media, we are at Murdersmall on Twitter, at SmalltownPod on Facebook, at SmalltownMurder on Instagram.

You can do that. Also, listen to Crime and Sports while you're checking out all of our stuff. Crime and Sports every Tuesday, SmalltownMurder Express every Friday, of course. Patreon this week is... Holy shit. It is overboiling. And patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all of the good extra stuff. You're going to get it all.

You're going to get like four episodes a month of very good stuff. We got a whole back catalog full of episodes there that you'll get access to. Anybody $5 or above gets access to everything we put out bonus wise and this week your two episodes are going to be for crime and sports we're going to talk about doc ellis who you definitely don't have to be a sports fan to be interested in this he threw a no hitter in baseball while tripping his balls off on acid that's just interesting it doesn't matter if you like sports or not that is very interesting and he's a really outspoken, funny guy, too. He's a funny, cool guy.

And then for Small Town Murders bonus, we are going to talk about the documentary that everyone wants us to talk about, Conversations with a Killer, that John Wayne Gacy tapes. And watching it, you know why everybody wants us to talk about it, because it's fucking interesting as shit.

It's really, it's riveting. It's riveting. It's wild. So we'll talk about it because it's fucking interesting as shit. It's really riveting. It's wild. So we'll talk about all of that and so much more on Patreon there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Or if you just want to make a donation and get your name heard at the end of the show, well maybe you'll understand

what name it is or maybe Jimmy will say it so poorly you won't know what it is. But you can do that at PayPal also using our email address, crimeandsportsatgmail.com. That said, Jimmy, I need to hear it rain down upon me with the people who are my favorite damn people on Earth. Hit me with them, Jimmy.

This week's executive producers are Isaac Moya, who loves New Mexico. Wow. Evidently, it's an okay place. He's the one. He wants me to tell him that it's okay. It's only okay that it's just part of the United States. That's the only thing that's okay about it.

It's not good, dude. Sorry. We're happy you're happy. Good for you, Isaac. Enjoy it. Becky and Junior Holt in Hawaii. Nilou Rasvinjani. Hey.

I said it. Right? I mixed the S and F. We are. God damn it. Katie Skiniano. Sis. Katie Scignano. Cicciano. Cicciano.

Exactly. Fucking Italian names. He hates them. Cicciano. Jordan Bennett and Christopher McGrath. Thank you guys truly for everything you did for us. Thank you. Thank you.

Absolutely. You're doing amazing work. Thank you. Other producers are Jennifer Meeker, Liz Vasquez, Joey Pepperoni Nips, Carl Kirshner, Peyton Meadows, Jude Kendall, Dr. Michael Furrer, Dean Campisi, the Italian tank is what he is. Oh! Lydia Bunner, I think, Janice Hill, Frank the South African Bird Washer, Zach Westfalls, Faith McClain, Amy Mink Schultz, McKenzie Sharps, what is this, Fursley Serenity, Christy Bennett, John Lagana, Jordan Ecker, Tony Harris, Mike with no last name, Mike Bailey Painter, Kevin Browning, Andy Muehlinger, David Wesley, Alexandria Whitley, Brad Veeb,

Chad Davis, Darian Reyes, I think, Serge Nozelg, what? No, that's not right. Ellen Winder, Tabby with no last name. T. Lars. Kelly Hubbard. Alexandra Zenkner. Kelsey with no last name. Goopy Goop. Craig C. Rennie. Danielle with no last name.

Jackie Cobb. Jennifer Talbert. No name at all. Somebody with no name whatsoever. Amanda Agnello. Amy Heller. Esmeralda Gonzalez. J.C. Davis. Amy would know last name, Josephine Bernardson, I think, Sally Steffens, Sean would know last name, KevBot2021, Ezra DeHogue, Katz, oh boy, Skialababoff. Yeah, you seem paranoid there. Greg Bratton, Robbie Buckmeyer, Jasper Miller, Mark Forward, Lynn Pearsall, Joe Trompen, Olivia Long, Selena Devier, Shane with no last name, Sean Jones, Kimberly Mobley, Adrian Torres, Rob McGregor, Christy Rae Suarez, Anne-Marie Wilt, Patrick Gaumont, Vanessa Alcorta, Justin Dibble, Hannah Temple, Jordan Wallach, Kevin Graham, Elvis Lopez, Danielle Clifford, Trevor with no last name, Nick Marshall, Kate from Royal Turnbridge Wells.

I imagine that's in England. Evan Beck, Anna Yu, Yasmin Humphrey, Julie Helm, JZ96, Scott Fuchs, Claudia Catrash, Tim Shields, probably not, Jeff Mazarigos, Jesus, Shane Alexander. Greeks got you too now? Jesus. I don't know. Shannon Sander, Gremlin would know last name.

Jimmy hates the Mediterranean. Sorry. That whole goddamn, what do we call that? Yeah, that area. We'll go with region. Gremlin would know last name leslie erwe uh kyle goslin crystal turberger oh boy ball chin ian i don't know that's probably not true uh julia would know last name james lafantane diane johnson jenny k darnell swallow jesus christ william robertson

mary reynolds chris helm julie strong josh hill cassandra rupel logan townsend alec hitterman Christ. William Robertson, Mary Renelt, Chris Helm, Julie Strong, Josh Hill, Cassandra Ruppel, Logan Townsend, Alec Hitterman, Hitterman, Barry Missiel, Chris Mackey, Kevin Slayton, Juliet Salater, Melissa Andres, R with no

last name, Jarell Arnott, Natasha Kinshaw, Keith Bilen, I think, ivy uh raquel wakefield monique staple sarah schuster and all of our patrons you guys are amazing thank you thank you so much everybody for all that you do for us honestly we can't tell you how much we appreciate it thank you so much thank you thank you thank you and uh if you want to find us and thank us or say anything to us on social media, very easy to do that. You can go to shutupandgivememurder.com.

There are links to everything right there. Or just Google search Small Town Murder podcast hosts. What do you think? How many of us do you think there are? I hope there's just us or else someone needs a kick in the dick otherwise. So that said, thank you so much for joining us like we said get your tickets for those live shows and jesus christ we'll see you on friday then we'll see you next week until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.