Small Town Murder - #296 - The Minister's Wife Is Filthy - Trinidad, Colorado

Episode Date: July 7, 2022

This week, in Trinidad, Colorado, a minister's wife has an appetite for certain things. Like men, in the congregation. This causes them to move from state to state, after the affairs inevitably surface. This lands them in Colorado, which the marriage over, and several more to come. She finds a rugged mountain man, an optometrist, and a fireman, among others. This is all fine, until she wants one to kill the others. This leads to two of the most ridiculous, and moronic murders, that somehow leave dead bodies, in history. There is also a legal adjudication, that we've never heard a judge make, that you certainly wouldn't want on your resume!Along the way, we find out that moving won't cure horniness, that it takes some real charm to arouse some snakes, and that once you two dead husbands, you definitely start to look suspicious!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Trinidad, Colorado, a tempting preacher's wife sets out on a path of love, lust, manipulation, and murder as a trail of dead husbands begins to build up in her wake. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. We have a crazy, crazy, crazy story. If you are a longtime listener and you remember the Gun Barrel City, Texas Betty Lou Beats story, this has a Betty Lou Beats-y kind of vibe to it. So it's going to be wild stuff. Thank you for joining us.

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you're going to get, well, it's this crazy wrestler who's insane and he has a wild conspiracy theory about the Chris Benoit murders and we're going to talk all about it because it's so crazy it needs to be delved into for an we are gonna we're gonna talk all about it because it's so crazy it needs to be delved into for an hour so we're gonna do that then for small town murder we're gonna talk about an awful man oh my god he's a high-ranking Canadian I believe Air Force officer who is basically Canadian BTK killer he did awful things we're gonna talk about

a little bit about his crimes obviously we'll tell'll tell you what he did, but we're going to talk about the interrogation that got this guy who was just, I'm the, you know, I'm the bee's knees in the beginning. The arrogance on this fucking guy. And by the end of it he was like, let me show you where the bodies are. We'll find out what drove someone from that

to that because it's awesome. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and a shout out. You will of course get a shout out at the end of the show jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly but he's trying hard to get it correct we promise you so do that and uh that said disclaimer time very quickly it's a comedy show everybody we're comedians that doesn't mean the show's not real we don't make up a show to make it funny. That's the crazy part. These are all real facts. That's what's insane about it.

All we're doing is pointing out how crazy things are. It's all we have to do. It's very easy. What we go out of our way not to do, though, is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. See, that's how that works.

So that sounds good to you. Great. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together, I don't know. Maybe you shouldn't listen to a true crime comedy show. That is really hard to say. Oh, boy. But you might be misconstruing what we're all about. So either way, I think it's time, wherever you are, in your car, in your home, your home whatever not too too public place you can

shout it at the top of your lungs let's sit back and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this let's go let's go on a trip jimmy shall we we should we shall we may we can and we are uh that's all of them uh we're going to colorado a place you're familiar with, being from there originally. Yes. You're not from here, though. This is Trinidad, Colorado. Okay. Do you know it's in southern Colorado, down only, I think, within 15 miles of the New Mexico border.

You got to go through it if you're going anywhere great from the south. You got to go, oh, wow, we're not there yet. We're not to the good part yet. Is it near the Four Corners area? No, it's more central. It's more central Colorado right there. I know I've gone through it, but there's two routes to get there from Arizona. You go through the Four Corners, Wolf Creek Pass area, or up the 25, I think it is, that

goes straight the fuck up. Well, so I'll just, I'll, you know, I'll do a little spoiler here. The motto of the town, you're not there yet. So there you go. So anyway. It's a great country. It's just, there's nothing here. It's three hours to Denver, three hours and 45 minutes to Albuquerque.

So it's almost right in between those two. Four hours and 15 minutes to Carr, Colorado, which is all the way on the northern border, which was our last Colorado episode. Episode 242, which was September of 2021. The first family of serial murder. If you haven't heard that, you should definitely listen to that because we've never had a traveling serial murder family before. That was wild. This is in Los Animas County. Animals without the L. That's how you can do it area code 719 and they have another motto we're all the way down here

but we're still broncos fans yeah so anyway uh history of this town we'll go through it as quick as we can here uh 1862 it was founded because coal was discovered in the region. Yeah, that makes sense. Not gold, not silver, not tin. Coal. We got coal. Imagine rushing somewhere to pull coal out of the ground. If they'd wait a while, they'd be diamonds.

We're going to wait on them. No. They're not like a lunch break for like, I don't know, 30,000 years gonna wait that's what the boss said i don't know they're not done yet it's like when you pull potatoes out yeah and you taste them you're like not yet nope still too stiff so they did that a bunch of immigrants came in because they wanted to pull the coal out of the ground so they by the late 1860s there was 1200 people here and And it became well-known because Bat Masterson was the town marshal for a while. Is that right? Yeah, he's an Old West gunfighter, if you know.

Yeah, he's a tombstone, James. Yep, it's Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson. Those are the Billy the Kid. These are the famous Old West gunfighters, and he's one of them here. In the early 1900s, it became known for having the first woman sports editor of a newspaper. Really? Yeah, for early night. Ina Eloise Young is her name.

She was at baseball, was her main expertise, and she's the only woman sports writer to cover the World Series in 1908. Amazing. Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah, back then that wasn't a thing at all. So there wasn't a lot of Linda Cones running around in 1908. So they, they had their own semi-professional baseball team that was pretty popular here as well.

So the baseball was Trinidad. Baseball was big in this town. All back in the day, every small town had a baseball team, a protein and the protein, like major league teams used to do barnstorming tours across the West where they would play these semi-professional teams. So you might be in Trinidad and babe ruth and lou garrig would be coming through a town to

to have an exhibition basically to it was to spread baseball awareness you know this is before tv or any shit like that so in 1902 the bowen town coal mine which is six miles north experienced because it's a coal mine, a horrendous gas explosion. Yeah. Yeah, that happens. And subsequent fire. Well, yeah, killed 13 miners.

It was one of the worst mining disasters up till then in the state at that time. And so then there was a bunch of labor strikes and everything like that because of that. 1904, I love the way this is put in its town history in 1904 trinidad experienced several disasters that's not good that is not good um it's literally in the middle of nowhere it's yeah there's no help coming it's not fun for yourself time yeah in january of that year a fire destroyed most of the town's business section and then in September the area along the river had a heavy rainstorm and there was severe

flooding so then that flooded the Santa Fe Railroad Station so it burned and then flooded it's not good this area of the country feels like because it's in Colorado so you think about mountains but the southern area of Colorado is so flat oh it's terrible there's some mountains Colorado is so flat. Oh, it's terrible.

There's some mountains here. There's mountains here, though, because it's the beginning of it. This is known as kind of, well, High Times called it Weed Town USA in 2018. 5.13% of the state's total sales come from this town. What? Which has less than 10,000 people in it. So this is- 5%. Yeah so this is five percent this is people coming from new mexico this is where new mexico buys weed that should be that should be

its motto where new mexico buys its weed so they call the downtown section the weed mall area that's where that is where's new mexico where new mexicans trade fireworks for weed yeah i got fireworks well we got good fucking weed here. Some nice, tell you what, let's look at the concentrate section. I think you're going to like this. It is, what do we have here? Yeah, it's got all of that, and it's doing, well, 23 dispensaries in this small town. That's a lot.

That's a shitload. Reviews of this town, not a lot of great ones. There's a lot of bad ones here. Here is one star i've lived here for eight months and for someone who has spent time around the country this is one of the worst towns i've ever been in anywhere one star that's it very simple one of the worst of all time bye that's not good the only good part is that there's that comma colorado yep colorado one star i've lived in trinidad for 18 months got lied to and screwed everywhere wait what hold on okay

would not that sounds great yeah well though everywhere i can't i can't move without my pants being pulled up trying Somebody trying to fuck me. That's the difference between men and women right there. To a man, that sounds fantastic. To a woman, that's the most terrifying thing in the world. For a man, we'd be like, we'll punch the ugly ones off. That's in our brain. The ones we consider, if we didn't want to have sex with them, we'd be like, hey, get away from me.

I can stiff arm you. We're not like a drooling trucker coming at you. That's i'm going hey how you doing little darling like that would be that's frightening so anyway got lied to and screwed everywhere i turned would not recommend living there can't imagine if i had kids i could not get a job at walmart to even get by now i live in pueblo let's just say more not more normal all i have from trinidad is a lean i have to remind me of how crappy that town is every day then all capital letters exclamation point trinidad sucks so not my words but definitely somebody's like a probably a a payday loan or something right yeah or a loan on their trailer. I'm not sure. Two stars.

It's a beautiful place to live. Mountains are surrounding you. Fresh air. The scenery. Okay. But as a town, there's no businesses here. People are moving out.

The schools here are horrible. When Pueblo's your respite, it's a problem. It's a problem. When they're like, now Pueblo, now that's a town. Now that's a problem. It's a problem. We're like, now, Pueblo, now that's a town. Now that's a town. So, two stars.

Houses are, actually it says house are small and old. Very close together to keep the wind from blowing between them. No yards. Jesus. Close together to keep the wind from from blow if your house is built to defend against wind you live in a weird place you need to move from there that's weird it's very strange are these winds jesus if if we put the houses too far apart they blow away that's the problem they just go on tumbling down the hill make them almost touch like a brownstone and now we got some now

we got it calm down here in the courtyard that's the problem that's why manhattan's so close in it's just too windy no one can it's all it is all those buildings are huddling against the row of brownstone slowing it all down uh here's one star this is the last one here uh quote been nearly three years that i've been here it's been the most miserable frustrating time of my life one month after arriving i gained employment shortly after i was thrown in jail on a protection order i was never made aware of eight days exclamation point what i'd like there's backstory on the protection order yeah that's a bad person it means that means he was a protection order against him and he violated it and he never knew he had a protection order.

That's no, that's not how that works. They serve you a protection order. That's right. And what'd you do that got you the protection? That's the other thing. You're you're very well aware that you did something bad. Oh, my God. Then he goes on to say, my dog was placed in shelter.

When getting out, I lost my God. Then he goes on to say, my dog was placed in shelter. When getting out, I lost my job. I'm disabled and having no transportation or bus system made looking elsewhere difficult. Yeah. Trinidad does not like outsiders. I've been going through hell. The Trinidad Police Department, crooked and corrupt. They have zero resources.

I feel the evil here, as do others I've spoken with it's not a good place that's a bad person it's a it's also a bad place when everybody feels the need to have their closing sentence be just to sum it up yeah it sucks so just so you know people in this town they seem to agree 8 127 down 13 since 2020 so they are running in two years it's down 13 is not what's going to be left of this place like this is crazy uh male female population is just about normal median age a couple years all over the national average but nothing crazy it's only 40 all the stats are pretty normal married not married it's about 50 50 uh single with no children same as normal it's all normal uh race of this town 41.2 white which is about 20 less than the national average 0.2 black so that's not not a lot of black people here. 1.2% Asian, 3% Native American, and 53.1% Hispanic.

So it's mainly white and Mexican who's here. Religion. This beats anything in the South, anything in Alabama, even rural backwoods Mississippi. 88.2% of the people here are religious what 88.2 percent of the people here are religious may as well be everybody that's great 78 percent of the people in this town are catholic is that what our catholics are the baptists of the rocky mountains everybody now we know that i didn't they were, but in this town they are. Wow, that is wild.

78%. That is incredible. We've never had a stat like that before. No, I don't think we've ever had 78% of anywhere be Catholic. I can see there's like 75 people in the town, but there's over 8,000 people here. Like, there's a lot of people. That's amazing. 0.2's amazing. Point two percent Jewish.

In the last election, it was 44 percent voted Democratic, 54 percent voted Republican and a little over two percent voted independent. So there is that. Unemployment rate is high here. It's about nine percent right now, which is way higher than the national average. There's literally Walmart and the dispensaries are the only place to fucking work here nothing else there's 22 dispensaries get a job man there's yeah they're available but there's also 80 fucking 200 people so i don't know doesn't seem like there's that a lot and everyone was complaining no jobs no jobs no jobs is the complaint so it doesn't seem like there's a lot median household income here wow it, it is $37,000, which is about $20,000 less than the national average.

54% of households here make $40,000 or less. Oh. 21.6% make $20,000 or less. Oh, no. Yeah, it's out there, man. And our story, because our story takes place in the 80s, it was a ghost town. Oh, weed was illegal, too. Yeah, weed was illegal.

You didn't have that boom. Cost of living, 100 is average. Here it's 82. Housing is cheap, though. Housing, median home cost, 148,500 bucks. Yeah. So, damn it, we've convinced you that weed is enough for you. You can, you know, you're going to go there.

You can just retire and smoke weed. Take your protection order and move to Trinidad. We have for you the Trinidad, Colorado real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $980 a month. So that's less than the national average by a little bit, but it seems not worth it to rent. Sounds like a lot. Yeah. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 744-square-foot kind of little house.

It's on the side of a mountain, sort of. The whole property's a hill, so you're on that. Some stilts? No, no, no stilts. It's just kind of down. There might be stilts being covered no no stilts it's just kind of i mean they might there might be stilts being covered by some you know wood or something in the front it's it's i'm not gonna it's falling apart it's it's gonna tumble down the mountain at some point um it looks like

where you where you hide when you're on the run from federal authorities is where this looks like the place 75 000 bucks for that little slice of heaven there so there's that i mean if you're looking for a hideout though safe house safe house, this is the one. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,161 square foot. It's a decent little family home. You know, nice, small, but no grass to speak of anywhere, by the way. This looks like a goddamn— Is it all rocks?

Just dirt and dead things. Yeah, it just looks like that. It looks like Arizona, the yards. $122,000 for that. Okay. It's crammed in with other houses, tight so the wind doesn't. Everybody's got no yard at all. None.

Here's a four-bedroom, or they have like this, four-bedroom, five-bath, 3,242 square foot. That's broken up, though, into a house and a bunkhouse. The bunkhouse is like 1,200 square feet. The main house is like 2,000 square feet. It's on 99.5 acres. Overlooking a valley, like this crazy, beautiful valley. It's really nice. $799,000 for that.

T-Bowl for every b-hole. Less than $800,000. That's crazy. Yeah, there is nothing here is what that says to me. Yeah. So, but I mean, yeah, like I said, if you have nothing to do, if you want to retire, you don't mind snow in the winter because it definitely snows here. You bet. This might be the place for you.

Things to do in this little corner of the world. Not a lot, Jimmy. There's a Trinidad Blues Festival, which feels like it's just built around weed, which is fine. I'm happy with that, but it seems like it's... I've never heard of when they talk about the blues when nobody talks about Trinidad, Colorado.

No, that's what I mean. It's very strange. I don't know if it's a good blues festival or a bad blues festival, but everybody's probably pretty stoned, so we'll give it that. Then there's something here. The Rad Dirt Fest. Yes. It's rad.

I'm listening. Well, it sounds like there's going to be motocross shit going on. Dirt bikes and shit. No, no, no, no. Deep in the southern Colorado plateau lies an untouched plethora of gravel unlike any other no the towering spanish peaks and expansive mesas serve as the backdrop for three unique courses of the rad dirt fest the courses are all are all more than 90 percent maintained gravel roads and mostly rolling routes it's all really scenic and unlike any other

region in colorado because it's a fucking desert with mountains in it don't be fooled though the elevation and climbing will humble you especially on the longer ride we mean it when we say you'll truly become one with nature out on these courses and see an abundance of wildlife jump in for yourself and see it's gonna be rad that's from their website it's just fucking dude it's trails there's no anything there's no performances it's walk it's fucking bicycle trails it's bike oh no it's you just take your mountain bike and there's three different courses all through dirt they made trails that there's nothing there there's no infrastructure there's no anything like that not there's not going to be like not a local band is going to come play

none of this shit there's one trail it's 165 miles oh my god one that's 99 miles and then if you're just feeling lazy and you just want to you know do that there's one for 38 miles for you bums out there i don't want to do anything. A casual 38-mile ride. A casual 38-mile ride through off-road uphills and down shit and on gravel and, you know, perfect. And it's a free ride. There's no, like, competition. Nobody wins anything. It's just bullshit.

No, no, no. You just show up and you ride through the trails and everybody high-fives at the end and they go, that was rad. That was rad, man, right? And then they come back next year. That's not a festival you just said we'll all meet and ride in these trails okay cool that's just a gathering of

bicyclists that's not a holy shit nothing official crime rate what we're interested in this town property crime is almost double the national average so there's some shit popping off in the in the you know in the realm of stealing shit probably. But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is right on the national average. So, I mean, that's one of those things. Also, you're going to have

here a lot of people coming in and out that don't live here is the problem. It's a pass-through for sure. Pass-through and people come here specifically to buy weed and leave. So that's the other thing. So they might not give a shit about that. So that said, let us talk about some weird, weird murder. What do you say?

Let's do it. Eighty eight. Let's do this. Eighty eight. What is that the year we're going to? No. Where'd you get it? Oh, did I say in the 80s?

Oh, in the early 80s. Yeah. Not 88. All right. Early. Got it. That's where this ends up but uh okay in the beginning we're gonna have to go back in time to the mid 70s here to get a base of this and uh build this up this is a crazy story uh it is from a book called jesus christ it was at first called quote bitch on wheels uh which is what she called herself.

That's why. It's a quote. But then it was like, that sounds like it's not. It doesn't sound good. Accusatory. Well, there's reason for that. But still. Then they changed it to Confessions of an American Black Widow.

So there's that. By Greg Olson. I assume the ex-relief pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles and Arizona Diamondbacks, obviously. I thought the tight end for the Carolina Panthers was really a great author. Well, either one of them, whichever Greg Olson it is, they did some deep dive research here and wrote a hell of a weird story about this crazy murder or series of crazy murder that happened here. First, let's go back to 1975 okay yeah oh yeah we'll do that we can all see it everybody you see it the hair's flowing

collars are big it's a it's a time it's hard to tell though because trinidad may not have been at that point yet they still may have been i think they're running in the 50s i think the hippie craze just got here they're like it was that tie-dye that's pretty cool yeah nice so here though we're not going to be in trinidad quite yet uh let's talk about a young lady from this time okay back in 1975 uh her name is sharon lynn nelson She's 30 years old in 1975. Likes to be called Cher. Okay. S-H-E-R.

Cher. Like, hey, Cher. Like Sharon. It's Sharon, not Sharon anyway. But whatever. I don't care anymore. It's fine. Call you whatever you want to be.

Your name is. So she is married as well. Her husband's name is Mike Fuller. And she's married to him. They're married. They have kids. You know, they have a whole thing going on here. He's doing the real thing.

Oh, yeah. He is a Seventh-day Adventist preacher. Oh, boy. That guy does some preaching. I mean, that's hardcore. So it's very religious. We'll just say that. It's an interesting religion.

There's nothing casual about that type of deal it's not not a casual affair so as said in uh uh deadwood if we fight it won't be a casual affair that's what that is so this at this point in time mike and uh mike and sharon here they are in the car and they're leaving. They have two little girls and they're in the car headed from Durham, North Carolina to Colorado. That's a long ride. It's a long ride, making a fresh start. That's it. They all need a fresh start for a reason.

It's not just, hey, we're kind of worn out here. There's very specific reasons. Neither of them are wanted. That's the thing. They're quite upstanding. I mean, you know, there's not like an angry townsfolk with pitchforks and torches chasing them out of town or anything like that. So they've been in Durham. They were there in Durham for four years.

And there have been some things, we'll just say. An issue. Yeah, they're headed to Rocky Ford, Colorado. That's where they're going, Rocky Ford. And they have Rochelle and Denise in the back seat. They are seven and two years old, respectively, and that's how it goes. The problem is that Sharon fell in love with another man who just happened to be in the church's congregation. Oh, no.

So when the preacher's wife is, you know, banging one of the congregants, it kind of it spreads bad things. It's not good for morale. We'll put it that way. So she's leaning forward, winking in the pew. Yeah. And he's a married man, too. So that's the other thing. So all the ladies were like, oh, hell no.

And then, you know, then they also were like, well, I bet he's doing it, too, then. So it was bad. They had to go. We'll give a quote right from her here. Quote, it wasn't so much that our marriage was bad at that point. Mike was never a sensitive person. He'd never be one to share like Rod McKeown poems. I'll never forget the first time i went to craig's

apartment craig craig is the guy i think his marriage is on the rocks here is the problem that's his deal so he's got his own apartment mckeown big fan rod mckeown uh so it's the first time i went to craig's apartment he had a fantastic stereo system and he had a tape he had lots of tapes of rod mckeown by the way i love how in the mid 70s someone having a cool stereo system and he had a tape he had lots of tapes of rod mckeown by the way i love how in the mid 70s someone having a cool stereo system is a reason to date them and lots of tapes and lots of tape you want to hear something funny yeah my mother and my father okay they met they met in high school which is why they're divorced um which is why they were divorced by the time i was two uh they met in high school and my my dad wanted to go out with my mother,

and one of her friends told her, you should go out with him. I hear he has cool tapes in his car. He's a bitch and stereo. Literally. He has cool tapes in his car. You should go out with him. I heard he's a nice guy, and he has cool tapes in his car.

He's not a rapist, and he's got tapes. He has so much Crosby, Stills and Nash. He's got tons of Boston and Led Zeppelin in there. So, you know, he's got Led Zeppelin four. You should go in there.

I think you'd like it because that's exactly what the time period was. So, and my mother went, okay. And then they had me and got divorced. So, you know, that's how that works.

So tapes had you and realized she hates tapes. Yeah. She's like, I don't know about those 8-tracks anymore. Those aren't so good. But this is the same period. That was like 74, and this is 75. So we're talking, and that's when she was 74. So 1974 was the peak time for having good tapes.

You could pull women left and right with tapes. So he said, one of them was the the jostling of angels and it just struck me so she said it was like it was talking about me the feeling i got was when you're so self-sufficient and self-important and you're walking down the street be careful that your imagery wings don't jostle the real angels that are the common people huh wow does that give you a, an insight into who we're dealing with right now? I'm confused. No, no,

I didn't say, do you know what she's talking about? I said, does that, you're missing my question. I said, does that give you an insight of who we're dealing with? Is she looking for a deep meaning in sex?

Is that what you think? She's looking for deep meanings in a lot of shit. Yeah. When you hear somebody say that you go, I don't know who you are or what you're about but i know that i don't want to spend time with you that's what that's what i do know because i don't know what the fuck you're saying you know i don't know what jostling angels means you're sounds like a porn star i said imagery your imaginary wings don't jostle the real angels that are the common people

the real angels that are the common people yeah i think it's supposed to be like a like a like a humble brag i think it's supposed to be that's what it sounds like you know what i mean like i'm no angel because i'm like this different kind of person unlike the irregular people so it's like i'm above people but i'm also below them so it's like it's a total humble brag that's what she's saying fucking that's annoying it's all a a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. She had several affairs.

They keep going from state to state, running from her affairs, basically. Poor Fuller's got to run from this. He's got to run from running from my wife's affairs. Isn't that a country song from back then, I think? Running from my wife's affairs. All my that a country song from back then, I think? Running from my wife's affairs. All my exes live in Texas is one thing. So I live in Tennessee.

They're out in the pews and that's who she screws. And I swear to God, we're running from her affairs. Maybe that's what... Is that what running from the devil means? I think it is. Oh, that was running with the devil. That's it is with the devil that's running with the devil he's running with the devil he's the devil's chasing us um there was affairs in ohio there was affairs in north carolina and um the the main thing that is the an issue here is rochelle the

seven-year-old isn't even his oh no he she found out he found out later on that that was she didn't even know which one that was basically somebody's someone else's kid it was and he was like oh well thanks a lot for telling me that great um but he he said the youngest daughter though Denise who was born in 19 in North Carolina there, that was during a period of marital stability. So that is his kid, definitely. And then once she had the kid, that's when she went out. Once she had Denise, she was kind of went out looking for Craig. So she said that she said that. Oh, my. This is so fucking weird. She said that her her husband, the minister, Minister Mike, considered she considered she said he considered himself a, quote, legend in his own mind.

That's how she looks at him. One of those kind of guys. And that he didn't understand that there were, quote, real people out there that knocked around emotionally that had real worth. So I guess I don't know if seventh day adventism is like scientology but that's how like it would be like i'm above all this i'm clear i don't know about you people i don't check your fucking thetans and whatever but i'm clear it's totally fine you guys still six days i'm seventh i am all the way to the seventh so craig though she said was a different kind of guy he was a gentle guy yeah

he had a certain touch with her you know what i mean one time her daughter the teddy bear was falling apart and he whipped out a band-aid put it on it see it's all better now you know a band-aid on a teddy bear there you go fixes it he's all better now he's got an ouchie you know what i mean and then that that made it sharon sw because Sharon was like, man, that's something right there. She he's he's nice. You know, my husband would have just tossed that shit in the fucking. Yeah. My husband doesn't even know where the band-aids are.

This is bullshit. So she said Craig was gentle. She said that he was everything that she ever wanted. You know what i mean um everything and uh but she she said this is this was different this was a different kind of thing this was something that her husband didn't give her the tenderness uh you know poetry i guess i don't know what the hell poetry and band-aids poetry band-aids tenderness is all there you know and dick too because that's definitely a part of this.

So she said that it would take her an hour to come up with a list of positive attributes about her husband. She just didn't have any. Just not a lot. He's gruff and impatient. All he cares about is the church and his position in the church and his career, I guess, that sort of thing. Doesn't care about her needs at all. And she said he's just very cold. Very, very cold.

And she doesn't like that. She's looking for a warmer guy. You know, a guy who lives in a studio apartment and has good tapes. That's something. She's looking for that. So in 19. Carefree guy. A carefree guy.

Yeah. Swinger here. So in 1975, she wants to leave. She's going to do it. She said she's going to get out of here. She's going to start her life over with Craig, and it's going to be a thing here. So this is before they go to Colorado, obviously. This is in North Carolina.

So she said she was completely in love with Craig, and she's going to start over. She drove from where they lived to her parents' house in Maryland and she just took off. Didn't tell Mike she was taken off or whatever. She went there. She didn't even tell Craig where she was going. She they said, you know, he told everybody. I guess Mike told everybody that Sharon went to Sharon and the kids went to visit her sick sick relative somewhere. So that's where they were, even though he didn went to visit her sick relative somewhere.

So that's where they were, even though he didn't know where the fuck they were. He had no clue. No clue. Her parents said, don't leave your husband. You can work things out. Marriage isn't easy, you know, but you made a commitment and, you know, blah, blah, blah. You can't toss it away and, you know, all that kind of shit. So Sharon ends up going back to her husband. She goes back to Mike.

She says, you know, it was, some of it was the church and her mother was to everybody was telling her it was a dumb thing to do to go live in a, go live in a studio apartment with this guy. That's not the, that's not the answer to this.

So she said, okay, fine. She goes back. And, um, when she gets back from her trip, he says,

glad you're back with the kids. We're moving to Colorado. Yeah. we're getting the fuck out of here um i got a transfer going and uh see you later and uh yeah so she went to see craig and she told him she was she was stuck with it and there's no way out and uh she said mike's never gonna let me go he's never gonna let me walk away you know even i have all these affairs he still doesn't care we just move to another place we run from the devil it doesn't matter there's no way he's gonna let me leave him with his kid and somebody else's it's not at all no way so craig says all

right cool later like he doesn't yeah bye like that's what he says like she was like oh okay what about yeah and then he puts the headphones back on. Yeah, he puts the headphones back on, and he's like, slow ride. Take it easy. He points at her, waving. Slow ride. He's shaking his ass at her. Yeah, take it easy.

Get the ass out. Yeah. Take it easy. Get the fuck out. Going to the bar tonight. When you head west, make sure you pass through LaGrange, Texas and play this song from ZZ Top. Yeah, you can do it. It's a good one, right? We'll let the door hit you on the ass on the way out there. Bye. Down to the grind.

Lock that bottom lock, will you? Peace. Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, Sharon, come back. Sharon. Sharon. Would you take this garbage to the dumpster on the way to your car? Thank you.

Slam. Click. Bye. That's how little he gives Thank you. Slam, click, bye. That's how little he gives a shit. He's just, one more, one more. Turn the lights off. I like it in the dark. Hold on. There's recycling.

Here. I have that too. So they're heading west there. Affair ended. Everything's fine now, I guess. It's all over with. And Craig is living the life. Yeah, Craig doesn't give a shit he couldn't care less that's the other thing too we have to remember is that sharon

is considered hot by everybody that sees her sharon is considered very attractive yeah she's she's very attractive everybody says she's you know all the guys when they see her they're like oh preacher's wife is stacked you know, she's fucking stacked over here in this broad. Let me tell you something. As much as that's the one philosophy on earth that is a never failure, if you want to be successful, just be really hot. Either gender. Doesn't matter. That's the thing. Exactly. And I feel bad for those people sometimes because it's got to be fucking brutal to realize that or never realize that you're getting a lot of things because you're fucking hot.

That's what I mean. It's got to be a tough life. If you have that life, you want to burn up in a car accident at 33 like a big fireball because it's still good. Don't let this fall apart. The realities of life are going to come crashing down at some point. It's going to hurt. That's how it goes. I'm thankful for this fall apart. The realities of life are going to come crashing down at some point. It's going to hurt. That's how it goes. I'm thankful for this faith sometimes.

No shit. So before they head to Colorado, they get a letter from the church in Colorado. This is from the elders, the three elders from the churches in Rocky Ford and some other town here that they were going to go to and he was going to minister. So all three of these men were doctors, Dr. Ted Martin, Dr. Carl Wheeler and Dr. Perry Nelson. OK, so she read the letter when she was in Durham and it was a big welcome to you and your family. We can't wait to have you here as part of our extended family. You know, welcome aboard letter here. So she said, quote, there was something about that letter, about Perry's name, that was like a magnet to me. Perry Nelson.

Are you wet, Jimmy? I'm throbbing. Oh, God. Perry Nelson. Jesus Christ. I don't know what it is, but I'm... She read a name. I haven't read my quit since you said it.

Yeah. I've just been grinding up on the counter over here, just on the corner of the cabinets. I don't know. I'm just... No. She said... So close to Perry Mason. My God, man.

We always make, every week, it seems like, we're making fun of guys for being so disgusting and horny. And it's like she she just sounds like one of these dudes in a trailer who's got like 16 year olds coming over. You know what I mean? I'll give you beer and pot if you blow me. She heard a name and she's in. She's like Dr. Perry Nelson. Hey, that's the one. So she said, I wondered what this man was like.

Wow. So she said, I wondered what this man was like. Wow. And so then she, across the country, formed some weird thing of like, I must be destined to meet this Dr. Perry Nelson guy because there's just something about his name that intrigues me to the point where when I get there, I feel like we were in a relationship. Some kind of predestined thing is here. That's why we're being driven here. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. relationship some kind of predestined thing is here that's why we're being driven here wow yeah yeah that's not because i keep having affairs on my fucking jerk off husband like sounds like she's not happy and she just got a divorce like you know yeah she's that's why uh if she got the divorce though bro it'd be a fucking nightmare well her parents her parents are very religious too so this is hard on like her whole family was like, no, no, no, you can't do that.

And it was one of those. So anyway, they got to Colorado. They found that their home that they'd been promised wasn't finished yet. They were still constructing it. So they ended up in a hotel or a motel, actually. And both kids ended up getting sick for a while. Yeah, because it's a motel. I was going to say they had some weird, mysterious road illness from people driving from

Phoenix to Denver. And they stopped there and jumping to stop in Pennsylvania and eat chicken. I think maybe it was the it was the truck stop churches, chicken or Popeye's. Was it Popeye's or churches? Popeye's, the truck stop Popeyes that you ate road Popeyes is not good the truck stop eyes that you ate that was not good and uh I still love how you went to eat another piece as you were walking to the bathroom holding your stomach to throw it away and knowing that that was the reason oh that, that chicken killed me. And then you thought, I'm going to have one. What the fuck are you doing? Oh, yeah.

And then you threw it out. You went, oh, yeah. You were double. Your hand was on your stomach. How did you not remember that pain was going on in your stomach while you were going to eat the chicken? Oh, that chicken made me so sick as I was putting another piece of chicken in my mouth. You're like, oh, and it's been sitting for two hours in the car? Now it's good.

Now it's really good. On the floorboard. On the floorboard there? Now it's really good. I'm so dumb sometimes. That was awesome. So sick kids, house not done, living in a motel, probably black mold or something in there i don't know

sharon thought the church also sucked basically um the old church was like a beautiful church and it was nice and this is just like a you know they build shit in the middle of the desert it's got to withstand the wind so it's just a low a low slung looks like a miniature army installment you know it's just a very small barracks yeah like a tiny barracks just gonna put a few guys out there you look at it you go not a lot of religion in there no doesn't look too religious in there looks like i gotta bring all my own religion here i think god forgot about this place everybody i'm looking around now he forgot it's all good what do you believe in they get there and the fullers are Fullers are invited to a dinner at one of the church elders' houses.

And it's with all the church elders. They're going to have a big welcome on in. I think it's a sit-down, actually. I think it's a more formal affair. We're going to a doctor's house. It's going to be formal here. We're going to sit down. There's probably a quiche involved.

I'm not sure what doctors eat. Back then, I'm trying to think like what was trendy in the 70s. So Dr. Perry Nelson, he's 43 years old. He's got a wife named Julie and it's their house that they're everyone's going to. He is a an optometrist. He's a big in the big eye doctor. And apparently where this place is, he's kind of the only optometrist for a while. So he gets business from like everybody. And he does really well for himself because of that.

He's about six foot three, 180 pounds. He's got a salt and pepper beard. A little thin on top with the hair, but it's a little longer. So it's going to be scraggly, I feel like. But that's fine. Whatever. He's doing his thing. But he's got a wife, family, uh, three, his daughters are older.

They're all in their teens and, um, a nice house. He's also got a motor home and a big RV out there and he owns an airplane as well. Oh, he's so fun. So he's doing well for himself. He's living the life. And, um, yeah, he's in a, also very, he's a church elder. That's the most important thing to them at that point is he's a church elder and um all of that his wife julie is the if you think of like a like a an old-timey church elder's wife that's what you'd think of

is julie you know what i mean she's quiet nice that sort of thing. Not like a... The obey part of her vows. Yeah. Deal to her. Exactly. I feel like his father would have taken him aside and went, that's a sturdy woman there. You should marry her. You know what I mean?

It's that sort of thing. She's a handsome woman and very sturdy, which is great. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But I mean, they look like they are a couple. He looks like a dorky optometrist, and she looks like a dorky church lady's wife. You know, that's a church man's wife. So that's how it's going here. So Julie would help out in his office as well and also worked as a bookkeeper for another doctor.

And they had their daughters, Tammy, Kathy and Laurie. And that's the whole family here. They have a nice like we said, nice, nice house, all that sort of thing. The problem is Perry here, Dr. Perry, we'll just call him. Old Dr. Perry had an affair for like four years. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, that was for like a four-year affair. And Julie found out about it. Oh, no.

Dr. Horny here has a problem with that sort of thing. He's drawn to women outside of his marriage. Anyway, Julie, though, they made up, and they got past it. Four years? That's a little long to get past. I'm sorry. That's a fucking other family. You can't say it was just a physical thing and i met her and you know it was just that's all it didn't mean anything four years means something

that's a long fucking time gifts you son of a bitch that's that's all of high school you dated her that's a long time think about how long four years of high school was now date someone that whole time that's what he's been doing while he's married with kids on the side that's wild she absolutely brought up will you leave your wife for me? At some point. She must have. Christ. I would hope so.

She's like, I'm getting older. It's four years have gone by. So anyway, though, everything is fine. Fresh start. It's all good. Julie said about them, Mike and Sharon seemed like a nice average couple. There you go. They had two little girls aged two and five. And at the time, they seemed like a happy family. I didn't go. They had two little girls, age two and five,

and at the time, they seemed like a happy family. I didn't know there were any problems in the marriage. I thought Sharon was friendly. I guess I liked her. Yeah. That's good.

That's nice. Maybe Sharon will have a friend. Right? Maybe she'll have a nice friend and Julie and everything will be really nice and the kids will grow up together and maybe they can get

the Dr perry's kids because they're older to babysit their kids and make a couple extra bucks on the side this is going to be great i'm sharing the genius how did she know based on name that this is the guy that's capable that's what i mean that's unbelievable the same way that same way ted bundy knew which women to approach with the cast on it's just a sixth sense that people have to predators have in any way and we'll find out why i'm calling her predator later don't worry it's not just because she's horny that's fine that's not predatory we'll talk about that in a minute here yeah so um anyway yeah this is this is a weird thing so she liked her so maybe she'll be friends i have a good feeling about this whole

thing jimmy i don't know about you but i think it's going to work out just fine so maybe it'll be the first time ever in small town murder history uh problem is when they left though some of the other people at the dinner party didn't quite feel the same way about sharon there's a woman named blanche wheeler here blanche wheeler blanche and her husband came to the dinner as well she said she couldn't quite put her finger on it but uh didn't really like share fuller that much she said quote i don't know why but i just felt uncomfortable around her just felt like she was making eyes at my husband's penis i don't know what it was but kept looking down there um yeah but the uh uh carl wheeler that's her husband in this book it's he's described as a quote serious-minded man raised man raised on a Nebraska farm with good Midwestern values. He'd also picked up on something unsettling.

He stared straight ahead and watched the road, listening to his wife. The whole way home, she just said how much she didn't like this new lady that came in. Yeah. And he just. Yep. Carl Wheeler, is that his name? Carl Wheeler. Yep. He's driving along going, I know it. She's a just Carl. Yep. Carl Wheeler. Is that his name? Carl Wheeler. Yep. I know. I know. She's a hussy. She's a harlot. And he just keeps driving. I understand. So she was very angry. The whole thing. And and then he said he ended up saying just out of nowhere, he said, quote, she's out looking.

And then he said he ended up saying just out of nowhere, he said, quote, she's out looking. And Blanche said, Blanche said, looking. And he said, you know what I mean for a man. So he's basically agreeing with her, but he's also taking it a step further. Now, she's way different than all these other church ladies, too, in terms of appearance. They're more of like the buttoned up type, you know, with the fundamentalist braid and that sort of shit like she's got well not that far they're not Mennonites but they're just conservative

not showing a whole lot there's no cleavage showing is what I'm getting at you know what I mean when one of these ladies bends over in the kitchen her skirt doesn't ride up so you can see her ass that's what I mean it's just her ankles it's all pretty low like ooh look at those Tom McCann's she's got on those are nice hell of a set of buckle on those shoes margaret i like your buckles martha so uh anyway she had a different

kind of style um and most of the women that live out here too they dress like westerny they have like yeah the whole denim suit and shit like that she has like long hair that she lets down she's wears tight dresses the buttons are unbuttoned on her blouse is a little bit lower than all the other women not to an extreme of anybody but i mean just like oh wait look at that one of those things where she enough where she stands out in church she looks like you know a woman that understands that you know she's a human being with sexuality and obviously in a very conservative church that's not going to be welcome clearly clearly yeah um she also she didn't even wear

like a ton of makeup either so she wasn't like that or anything she just had a decent beauty and she did she worked it she knew how to work it so by the summer of 1976 perry nelson dr perry yeah he tells his his assistant barb um and i can't think of can't hear the name barb and not think of stranger things now it's just yeah picture a girl climbing into a pool so klan to get out klan to get out hard so she is told that he's bringing a new girl to Trinidad for office training. New girl. He told Barb, it's going to be up to you to break in this new girl here. She's just a part-time assistant, this new woman coming in.

And, you know, here she is, and it's Sharon Fuller. So, he hires Sharon. Now, over the last- The wife doesn't like you, so I'll make sure that you and I, if we have any interaction, it'll be several hours a day outside of her eyes. Outside of her eyes, and hopefully alone. So there we go. Around a lot of doors that close. So Barb had been hearing him talk about Sharon all summer.

And she was like whatever you know he just he'd been mentioning her name all summer and she just kind of blew it off and then um yeah then he said she's coming in this sharon and barb said is this the sharon you keep talking about and um he said uh yeah she's our preacher's wife sharon fuller at that point it's like you know hey i'm not banging her or anything like that so um you know that's how that works um and uh she said a preacher's wife jesus you're carrying on over like that why are you talking about like that and he says oh no that's crazy no uh oh she she's a doll i'd give anything i'd give anything to have her he said at that point he's pretty open with a secretary and she knew this. Barb knew that he would stray in the past.

That was, you know, he's... She works for him all the time. She knows what he's doing, you know? She takes the messages. If anybody knows, it's her. So Barb said, quote, about Sharon coming to work, she came in and it was all lovey-dovey. There was no breaking in, let's face it.

She went into his examining room and she was supposed to take notes. Oh, yeah, they were just kidding around and everything. Yeah. Then at 11 a.m. on her first day, Dr. Perry told Barb, you can go to lunch now at 11. See you around. Now, normally noon, he has it scheduled very rigidly. Noon to one o'clock is your lunch break. Now at 11 o'clock, he's like, you can go to lunch now if you want.

And then he said, quote, you don't have to come back if you don't want to either you can stay gone for any number of hours really just come back tomorrow you know what get the fuck out barb now take a week off i gotta go take it you know what take the whole week so barb was like what the shit that's never happened before she she said, since she worked there. This isn't obvious. That's weird. So then she runs into a friend of hers that manages a motel about a week later. Oh, my God.

And this guy tells her they're bullshitting and they know each other and this man knows that Barb works for Dr. Perry. And so he says, oh I met the doctor's wife the other day at the motel, that's nice they checked into a room, Perry and Julie checked into a room at the hotel and Barb was like, Julie, and why would they check

that's weird, very weird and he said, she said you met Julie, and he goes, yeah, isn't she cute and Barb was like And she said, you met Julie? And he goes, yeah, isn't she cute? And Barb was like, I've never heard of her. Barb said, and she even said, too, she's not unattractive or anything like that, but she's not someone that you'd see and be like, oh, she's cute. You know what I mean? It's just not how she's ever heard her described.

So she was like, that's weird. And then Barb said, what does she look like? Yeah, long hair, tits out. Long hair, tits out. I look through the window, legs up in the air. You know how it goes. I don't know. I don't know.

I'll get my binoculars and take pictures next time. But that's what I saw. So birthmark on her left ass cheek, you know. She says, what does she look like? And he says, oh, she has auburn hair and really nice looking blue eyes. And Barbara went, yeah, that's not Julie at all. That is 100 percent Sharon Fuller actually is who that is. Yeah. So, yeah, that's not good.

So September 27th, 1976, this just started this. She came to work there in August. 27th 1976 this just started this he she came to work there in August by September there's a night where all the church ladies are supposed to go to someone's house because they're in some multi-level marketing and they're trying to sell face cream okay

so some horse shit yeah or who knows what it was back then because it might have been that Amway shit and they might have whatever other products who the fuck knows so either way there's a they're all supposed to go there for that. Julie ended up going to the outing there. But Sharon doesn't show up.

She's expected. She RSVP'd that she'd be there, you know, facing, ready to go. She's not there. So Julie gets home about 10.30. And on her front doorstep is mike fuller minister mike here um he looks all frazzled and she's like help you you know what's going on he says well uh my wife left with your husband so that's it we should probably figure that out together um he said i've been driving around all night trying to figure out where they had gone. Do you know where they might go?

And she said, I have no fucking idea. We can call Barb. Maybe she knows. So she calls Barb in the middle. This is, you know, Barb was sleeping. She's like, huh? Hello. And she said, do you know where Perry is?

And she said, I don't know. He left the office at five o'clock with Sharon. Oh, boy. And then Julie goes with Sharon. Yeah, boy. And then Julie goes, with Sharon? Yeah, Sharon Fuller. And he's like, okay, do you know where they went? And Barb says, no, I don't. How would I know where they went?

I fucking went home. I don't care. He's my boss. I don't care what he does outside of this. I don't care. I forget. I'm on my time. Yeah.

And she said, well, it's 11 o'clock. I'm getting concerned. I don't know what to do here. And that was that. She hung up with Barb. And then a few minutes later, Perry calls. Yeah. Ring right back. That's an uncomfortable.

Hey, how do you? She says hello. And what do you say? Hey. Hey. Hey there. What are you doing? How's it going?

The kid's good? They're sleeping. Okay. Okay. Um, Hmm. All right then. Some groggy Perry. What's happening?

Yeah. He's a sleepy. She said, Mike is here. Said you ran away with his wife. What the fuck is this true? And he went, ah, yeah, it's true. Ah, damn it. And, um, yup.

He says that, uh, you know, he's not even sorry, is what he tells her. What? He's like, I'm not even sorry. I can't be sorry because it's the right thing to do. And then he tells her, quote, I've never loved anybody like the way I love her. Oh, no. Um, so Julie cries because by this time she's been talking to Mike and Mike's like, she's always having goddamn affairs and running off with this one.

And she's like, Julie's like, well, fuck, my husband was banging this lady for four years. Yeah, exactly. So she says, what makes you think you can trust each other? Either one of you. And, you know, she says, quote, I'd hate to be her and trust you. How are you going to trust her? Also, like, what the fuck is your deal? He says simply, quote, we love each other.

Oh, boy. It's going to be just fine. Oh, boy. So Sharon decides she doesn't know. She decides at that point she's leaving. But then she says, maybe I won't leave. She ends up going to some Seventh Day Adventist counselor in Texas who convinces her to go back with Mike. You know, because it's some sort of whatever.

Anytime you go to a way to be talked to by a church person, it's some form of indoctrination. You're going to leave doing what they want you to do, probably. Or they're not going to let you leave until you do, I feel like. There's some brainwashing after, for sure. There's something going on there. Like, you've been sent somewhere to change your way of thinking do what they want you to do yeah so she goes back to colorado and reunites with mike but at some point perry sends her a gift dr perry and she can't fucking resist him that gift boom she's off again she's done done. Fuck. Mike says, fine, but I want the kids.

One of them isn't even his. Right. What the fuck are you talking about? That's not even your, like, but he wants the kids. So, whatever. He wants the kids. And Carl Wheeler, as we know, Blanche's husband here, he heard of Mike's plan to take the kids. And he offered to take the kids from Sharon by a court order and he offered to help him out.

He said, I'll come with you to the court. I know people, whatever. So Mike knew that Sharon was hiding out at her sister Judy's place around there. So Carl considered he said that, listen, you know, I'll listen to you. You can spout off and do your thing. And Carl later said, quote, quote, Mike was a feisty sort of guy for a preacher. Just pretty funny way to put it. He didn't take it didn't take much for him to double up his fists and take a poke at someone. Oh, shit. Yeah. I don't know what like I said, I don't know a lot about Seventh-day Adventism, but I don't know if they turn the other cheek is not a.

but I don't know if they turn the other cheek. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts worse man if your wife's constantly cheating on you you're an angry son of a bitch, and you can't wait to take it out on someone. I think so, especially the guy who is banging her. So a few weeks later, Perry pulls Barb aside and tells her what happened.

And she's like, listen, Sharon went to hammer out this court agreement. And he says, quote, oh, Barb, it was something else. I bet. He said, quote, Mike got up and said what she did. She didn't even get to talk. And the judge said, and this is like someone in the 17th century said this, but this happened in the late 70s in America. Okay. Quote, I declare you a whore.

Okay. Yeah. Quote, I declare you a whore. You can't be legally adjudicated a whore, can you? That's not a thing. I declare it in a robe with a gavel. If you say I declare you a whore, you pronounce sentences with that. That's a final judgment, isn't it?

He's a judge. It's literally a judge. They're judging you a whore adjudicated a whore i don't feel like that's that should probably i think you can keep that opinion to yourself is what i'm getting at i don't think you say in public record by any shouldn't be in court record oh this is the divorce case of those two oh that's sad they did that oh well oh looks like she's a whore okay no no not my opinion the judge said i declare you a whore see those black and white i didn't i want my opinion in court steno shorthand i'd like to see the stenographer was in there paused for a second

shrug i mean he said it what the fuck i don't want to be the guy i'm not going to be the wrench in this hole in this spoke. They pay me $13 an hour. I got to write it. I got to write it. I declare you a whore, and I am taking your two daughters away from you. You will not even have visitation rights until they turn 30 years old. Well, I don't think you can do that legally.

When they turn 30 years of age, they can make up their minds if they want to stay with their so-called mother or go with their father. Good Lord. That seems crazy. I declare you a whore? You so-called mother? Good Lord.

She had an affair, but Christ's sake sake it's not like she tried to stab him in his sleep for fuck's sake like this is a blame her parents they're the ones that called her sharon yeah no she's got to live up to it she's got to live up to the name sharon um wow that judge that is something else there i don't even know what to say about i can't believe that's legal i i can't imagine it would be outside of some rural southern Colorado courtroom in the 70s. That doesn't sound legal. Feels like you could win something on appeal with that. Right?

He called me a whore. He declared me. He didn't even call me. He declared me a whore, which sounds very official. In front of people. It's on my... My ex-husband there. I went to renew my license since then.

It's on my driver's license. There's just a W next to my birthday. I've got a W endorsement on the back. It's super weird. I don't understand it. It says organ donor W. Organ donor glasses W. I've been given a ticket by a cop.

He flipped over and goes, you can ride a motorcycle? I was like, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. Flip that over. I'm a whore. I've never seen this before exactly right it's crazy what the fuck man so perry and sharon move in together they move in together um they put up they put the place up for sale that perry dr perry's family had been living in. Sharon sells her car, and they buy a smaller house there. And as soon as their divorces go through, Sharon wants to get married immediately.

She wants to get right back on that train. And she said that she's given up a lot, and she needs no engagement. We're getting married right away. He said, great. Sounds good. Let's do it. So July 1, 1977, they getting married right away. He said, great. Sounds good. Let's do it. So July 1st, 1977, they get married. Wow.

She made her own dress, by the way. They had plenty of money. Yeah. They're staying in Trinidad? Here, it's, yeah, there's one place in Trinidad and one place not, because they're going to move back and forth here a couple times. Wow. So, yeah, they do this.

They get married. By the way, should I read the wedding dress's description from the book? Please do. Okay. She made. Quote, this means nothing to me or you, but a woman might, or a man, whoever, someone who knows shit about fabrics and making things like that, this might be something to you.

It was a gunny sacks pattern that followed long and full and long to the floor with a cinched boat, Bodice boat, boat, B O D I C E. Is that Italian? Bodice. I don't know.

I don't know. It's a bodice that accentuated her full breasts. Oh, she selected a light wheat colored material, though. It was a more, it was more preferable than the acknowledgement that the white fabric would have been inappropriate for the bride. She also, well, being a legal whore and everything,

you can't wear white. She went with fucking brown because she's dirty. The judge will yell at you from the back of the, you know. She also fashioned the flouncy brim of a straw hat with silk flowers and lace. She picked out a beige leisure suit for perry i want to see those wedding pictures because wow so much brown that sounds hideous they went on their honeymoon for a couple days and it was wonderful then they get back to colorado and obviously the

gossip train explodes here my it's a lot here's one woman. She's just a woman, doesn't give her name, quoted from the book as a woman who knew all parties involved here. I felt like the whole marriage was a show. It was like they were trying so hard to portray that they were so happy. She's miserable. Grim Karen over here. They were trying to prove to the world that they had done nothing wrong and that their love was good and right. It didn't matter about Mike and the kids or Julie and the girls. Their love was higher than that.

Sharon was always a big one for appearances. She wanted everything new and perfect in her home, but it was just for looks. Her marriage was the same way. There was no heart to anything she had or did. Wow. And I don't like her tits either. That's what that says to me. God damn, man. That's what that says to me.

God damn, man. She's mad. I would say so. So by the next year, next August, Sharon is pregnant. And by March of the next year, she gives birth to a baby boy. And then by 1980, they had a little girl as well. So they have a boy,

a little girl named Misty. They're pumping out more kids here. So they had a little girl as well. So they have a boy, a little girl named Misty. They're pumping out more kids here. So they build a house. She's tired, she said, of living in little houses that someone else built. It's time for me to build me a giant house. Build me my place. And that's what she's going to do. And she wants it to be a big, grandiose, one of a kind house that she she wants.

And it's I'll read this description right from the book, too, because it's the only way to do it. The focal point was a six sided great room that soared to a cathedral ceiling. A freestanding double flue fireplace would be put in to provide warmth and ambience. A rack, a wraparound deck eight feet wide by 120 feet long would provide all the outdoor living space. Anyone could ever desire the master bedroom. Also with a cathedral ceiling and outside entrance was enormous at 16 feet by 28 feet. That's a big fucking room. If the kitchen and the children's bedrooms were less grand and seemed almost incidental,

the house only reflected the priorities of the designer. This was a love nest and a place to show the world what she had. The fact water had to be hauled from a neighbor's house well only confirmed it. Who needs water when you have love? That's from the book. Unbelievable. He built her the Coliseum.

And there's no water there. There's no phone lines here because they're in the middle of nowhere. So basically he just built a house in the middle of nowhere, and they're lucky to have electricity. It's crazy. Trucking water in. Got a truck water in from the neighbor. She even gave it a name.

She named it Roundhouse. I guess because it's a six-sided room in the middle there. So, yeah, they had at one point, this is a weird thing that the couple has here. At one point, they had a dinner party and their son, Danny, came out of the bedroom and had a photograph and handed it to somebody at the dinner table and said, this is when I got born. What is it? It is a photograph head on of Sharon, you know, feet in the stirrups with him halfway out of her. Oh, my God. That's the that's the yeah, that in the stirrups with him halfway out of her. Oh, my God. What? Yeah, that's the picture.

Somebody took a picture of the actual birth. Yeah, yeah. They were like, I need a high shutter speed because he's coming out fast. He can come out quick. We don't know. What if he shoots right out? From the entrance of the tunnel of love. Yep, that's what it is.

And handed that to a dinner guest. And they threw up. They were like, oh, that's very nice. Here you that to a dinner guest and uh and they threw up they were like oh that's very nice uh here you go and the kids like smiling isn't that nice so this is when i got born i got born that's cute as shit oh gross you picture you picture it would be like them coming home from the hospital with the baby all swaddled into something that's what the person probably, oh, that's good. You know what, Sharon? I don't want any more roast beef. I'm good right now.

I changed my mind. I'm all right. I've had enough of your roast beef for now. Oh, a piece of the otomy. Nice job, Sharon. That's great. You're tough. Oh, well, I hope they sewed you up nice because that looks painful.

Jesus Christ. So there's problems with perry obviously yeah you know the two of these two they're gonna they're both fucking they can't stay happy in something they both have to wander so perry's jacked he's been having a shitload of sex but this is crazy now he apparently she's mad at him for giving so much money to his ex-wife and children which is probably ordered by a court i don't think he might probably has any choice in that matter they didn't adjudicate her a whore so i don't know what to tell you damn it that keeps coming back to me it keeps coming back so sharon said you know this is no not for me i gotta find somebody to have some fun

with on the side so she hooks up with a guy named buzz yeah his name is buzz reynolds yeah he he was a second tier astronaut he was on the b team they sent him in in case anybody was sick we already got a buzz we gotta send him back get someone else no there's buzz. We got to send him back. Get someone else. No, there's buzz already. We can't use him. Get back to the tractor supply store, Mr. Reynolds. Back to the Caterpillar store. That's where he's going to go because we can't use him. We just have another buzz already. Joke's on you guys.

I made this amazing space wrap. It's called Reynolds Wrap. It's going to change the world. You're going to love it. Well, he's got a huge house out in colorado here big old house and uh she said well fuck he said well why don't you move into my house jack up with me you don't need this fucking guy and uh she said you know what i'm gonna do it he's he's described as a self-made rancher with a vast holding so he's a landowner that has all

this type of shit he's a he's a rich guy he's a little bit older than them as well and uh oh didn't mention this he's one of dr perry's best friends very very best friends yeah there's that too one of his fuck man very best friends how hot is she jesus what's happening that's you know what i mean this is what is happening they're all falling all over every guy in town is, I don't care about my lord, my wife, my children, the judge that done called you a whore. I love you. Please move into my house. I will forsake my best friend to fuck you one. My best friend.

So he's got a lot of money and all that. So she leaves Perry and leaves him behind and checks up with Buzz. And Sharon at one point showed up at the optometry office to pick up a check. And I don't know what was going on here. She asked to see her estranged husband. Barb said, wait a minute. He's busy with a patient. And then she went in and they got in a huge heated argument over money and all this type of shit and he called her fucking names i'm sure

he called her a whore at some point and everything else and barb could hear them screaming at each other and she was like holy shit i'm lunchtime yet taking my 50 taking my 15 okay okay um then she goes when it's all over with sharon stomps out of the office, slams the door, heads up toward the front where Barb is sitting and says, quote, I'll tell you what, if that son of a bitch doesn't give me a divorce, I'll blow his fucking head off. I'll kill him. Oh, Sharon. Okay, so Barb said, she made like a joke about it. She said, oh yeah, what would you do with the body? Come on, like a joke.

You know, then what are you going to do? What about the dismount? Sharon didn't laugh at all. Oh, really? She took this as like, well, what's the plans? Sharon said, quote, I'll stick it in the freezer. No one would find him there. Oh, my God.

That's what she said. And so that's how it went. She'd say crazy shit. Perry would do weird shit. They went back and forth. Oh, no. It's insane and they have two kids in this battle too so they you know they have to communicate with each other and shit

like that so anyway the optometry business is falling apart because the doctor has turned to drinking a lot oh really yeah he's a guy who would have like you know two beers at a barbecue before and now he's a guy who grabs a bottle of scotch on the way home at night you know he's a different whiskey and does somebody say it's one or two one three or four you know i i think you're fine i looked at you know i you says blurry but i think it's blurry too and i see great so if we both think it's blurry it's not what i like to do when i see blurry i cover one eye or close one eye whichever well i recommend work that's how i get home especially when you're driving just try that okay you're all good there you go one eye say hi to barb on the way out okay all right cheers

all right sorry i didn't mean to blow that in your face. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. So. You don't want to. That's one of the last people that you want drunk is the guy that's fixing your fucking eyes. That's not good. Or any part of your body for that matter.

Any kind of doctor. Her paychecks would get smaller. Sometimes they're delayed. I can't pay you, Barb. I'll pay you in a few days. And then he he pays her one week barb collected fourteen dollars in receipts somebody came in and bought like one of those little glasses kits with a little screwdriver and they left oh my god he owed a hundred twenty thousand dollars on the mountain house the house the roundhouse the irs was due more than a hundred thousand dollars which you don't

want to fuck with them. And the state of Colorado was owed $80,000 in back taxes and penalties. So that is $300,000 in 1980 fucking two that he owes out there. That's a lot of money. And also various lens labs around the country. A lot of people for his business, too. $5,000 here, $10,000 there. He owes a lot of fucking money a

lot of money so he has a ford bronco that's about to be repossessed because he hasn't been making payments on it as well and um he uh he came into the office and looked just all out of sorts obviously yeah and barb said what's wrong and he said i'm gonna end it all oh everybody this desk must just be like a you just tell this person what you're thinking like there's no there's no truths are them does she have back there there's between no lines it's just all right on the nose just tell them what's happening wow i'm gonna end it all and she said you don't mean that you know don't do that and uh he she said you know your grandmother said what you said that one all. And she said, you don't mean that. You know, don't do that. And she said, you know, your grandmother said what you said that one time. And she said, if you die, you go straight to hell.

And he said, quote, I'm going there anyway. And he walked back into his office. So, yeah. So she at lunch, she went to see a friend of Perry's and said, I think he's trying to I think he's thinking about suicide. So the friend said, I'll go see him after I get done with work. And she said, no, you should go now. Like he could be doing it right now. I don't know.

You know, we have no idea what's going on. Could be loading a gun as we speak. So the friend said, all right, fine, Jesus Christ. And then thinking she's being dramatic, he drove over there. When he gets there, luckily for Perry, the Bronco hasn't been repossessed. It's still in the parking lot but oddly for perry um he is in the truck with a loaded revolver in his hand oh boy and tears down his face so he's crying with a gun in his hand in a parking lot in a parking lot in a car that's about to be repossessed you want it back you're getting it back with a

little extra fucking schmutz on it you're gonna going to need to put a lot into the detailing. Let me tell you something. So this is obviously not good, but he wasn't dead. He was still alive. And his friend said things are going to get better. It's going to be okay. And it's going to be all right. And all that sort of thing.

And he got him to put the gun down and maybe not be so suicidal. Right. So around Christmas time of this year, Sharon tells perry that hey guess what perry i'm pregnant with buzz's baby oh boy take that um so um yeah i'm pregnant with buzz's baby and uh tells perry that like ha ha then tells buzz pregnant with your baby and he says well you got to get the fuck out she said but i'm pregnant with your baby and he said yeah i said get the fuck out that's what i just said i don't want i don't want a baby i wanted to have a woman in a fuck pad that's what i was looking for here because i'm a scumbag named

buzz what do you think i'm a nice guy i'm come on i'm a rancher named buzz yeah i'm getting my rocks off and i'm taking off so that's that so um she ended up uh she ended up moving into a shitty apartment in rocky ford and uh she ended up eventually having an abortion um from this because we nobody needs this baby in the world let's be honest here and i'm glad that she could and so after perry, after that, Perry decides, OK, let's call off the divorce. Maybe we can work this out. Oh, yeah. Let's try to work it out.

That's fine. Perry's like, I'm not going to lose both families two in a row here. Look at that. Oh, for two. He brought them together. Yeah. Yeah. That baby brought two other people together who hated the fact that that baby was coming.

That's wild. Isn't that nice it is nice see abortion can bring people together it can see sometimes it's the solution this dirty dancing it's a lot of there's a lot of records he's like we need to get together because our our records at this point are bad i'm over two in relationships you're a certified whore this is terrible we can't be together if we do this so you're oh for whoring you you have not you have not been a victor in any situation ever let's give it a shot let's try this out so they're back in the roundhouse now okay trying to pay it off and all this shit when one day a rugged man from down the road comes a knocking okay he he lives in a trailer it's they're practically

next door neighbors but it's a huge lot you know a lot a lot of land between them here his name's gary star adams star with two r's so that's a somebody's maiden name mom's maiden name probably so gary star adams here gary lives with his wife and his young son in a mobile home at the bottom of cougar ridge hell yeah well he a mobile home at the bottom of cougar ridge well he's gonna be at the top of cougar ridge if he hangs out in this fucking house anymore because she is on the he's gonna be in cougar's canyon yeah that's what i mean cougar valley at this point so it's a whatever cougar fucking cougar mountain actually i think she's gonna he's gonna climb this mountain yeah right at the top so they live down there they uh also have a uh they have a daughter but she's all grown another one but she's all grown up and lives in by denver and um so he goes in there

meets up um his place is a shithole it's called in the book a ramshackle dive so it's just looks like a dump he says hey neighbor you mind if i borrow a wheelbarrow from you i got a job along the road here and you know i could use a wheelbarrow and they talked for a few minutes and she liked the cut of his jib and and jeans as well um yeah he's a rugged ranching outdoor calloused kind of a kind of a cat. And she loves that about him. She's like, oh, I never know. I was just I'm with an optometrist right now. This is crazy. I like it in the wheelbarrow position. Oh, yeah. Let's do it. So, oh, wheelbarrow. Yeah, you can borrow. Oh, no. OK. Garage, garage, garage.

I can garage. Oh, you mean one of those? Yeah. Garage. I'm sorry. I'm it's a habit i just spring into action have you seen my driver's license there's a reason so at the halloween party that she throws she throws a big halloween party it's a costume party and uh she invites about 20 friends and neighbors and all this type of shit there's a lot of drinks flowing and everybody's having a good time and she uh she snagged gary adams for a minute here she said gary um why don't you ask me to dance or why don't you ask me why don't you ask me to dance and she said uh she got close to him and he's wearing leather and she

said she said deep breathy he said quote i love the smell of leather she says oh god i love it yeah that's good she he's dressed up like a mountain man because he already has the clothes. He's got a fringe. I slaughtered this last week. Well, wait till you hear this shit. He's got a fringe leather shirt and pants. And, oh, that's a torpor thing. And at one point during the dancing, she pressed her tits on him.

And he was like, hell yeah. Then she told him, quote quote why don't you come into the office on thursday and get an eye exam and we'll get to know each other a little better oh boy so he said fuck yeah he also knew that uh thursdays were when sharon uh would uh she would go to the office to do some office work and leave him behind and he would do shit at home with the kids so there's no eye exams on Thursdays, from him anyway. But there's going to be, she's going to be looking at something. She's going to be looking at one eye.

You'll definitely look at a, we're going to take a look at that snake and make sure. So Gary said he planned to go. He was intrigued about it, and on Thursday he showed up excited, and Sharon was sitting at her desk. She had a, like a, you know, tight outfit on and all this type of shit.

And she was like, he said, yep, that's right. So, um, they ended up getting down here in the office. Yeah.

They started a fucking Gary says, quote, I thought she was going to give me a big hug and she gave me a kiss. And that's when she really started rubbing her crotch on my leg the quotes from him are amazing jimmy it gets better at first her arms were around my back then she went down to my butt and just pulled me in tighter to her and said quote why don't you get us a motel room that's what she whispered to him he said he didn't even not even a chat no small talk he said he called up the trinidad Best Western around five and said, yep, here it is. Here's the room.

And they got there and she said, you should get one on the other side so people don't see our cars next time. But I'll still bang in here. She said, do you have any protection? And he said, I had a vasectomy. And she said, hmm, I don't know about that. She said, I got pregnant from buzz. And he said he had a vasectomy. And she said, hmm, I don't know about that. She said, I got pregnant from Buzz and he said he had a vasectomy. Fool me once.

I don't know about that. Yeah, fool me once, shame on me. Then she said, I have to go to the bathroom. And then when she came out, apparently she had decided what to do because she was just wearing a black bra and panties and all that sort of thing. And he noticed she had no tan lines at all.

She'd been, he said it was like a, like a playboy centerfold fell into his lap. That's what he said. Uh, problem was his Dick was as limp as the page of a playboy centerfold. Just limp as a piece of paper, not holding the fuck,

not holding the charge. Let's call it. I think that's a new way to put, I've never heard your Dick being limp is not holding the charge but i'm gonna say that from now on like a bad batter it's a matter buddy not holding a charge or what what are we doing here so uh yeah it sucks so it's an iphone 4 and she tried she i got a blackberry charger and an iphone 4 they don't go together she She tried. She tried.

He's jerking him and blowing him, and she put on like a fucking show for him, and she did the whole deal. And God damn it, it's just not happening down there. He said, never happened before in his entire adult life. Doesn't know what's going on, but just poof. He told somebody later, quote, she was trying to get me aroused. I just couldn't do it. Right then, it should have been a warning, she was trying to get me aroused. I just couldn't do it right then. It should have been a warning saying my body knows more than my brain.

It's not right. Right. So they hugged and they kissed and they jerked and they poked and they fucking rubbed and they did all this type of shit. And he said he was embarrassed. And she said, oh, that's OK. It doesn't matter. She said, we'll get together again. And bang, it's been fun anyway.

So, you know, it's okay. It doesn't matter. She said, we'll get together again and bang. It's been fun anyway. So, you know, it's all good. Um, so then a couple of weeks later, uh, Jesus fucking Christ, this is amazing. So Gary just can't,

I can't have it happen. A couple of weeks later, um, Gary, uh, uh, said that they went to, uh,

she, he said that he was hooked on her and he needed her again. So a couple couple weeks later they try again doesn't work again okay two in a row he's having a hard time here so uh perry's trying to save his business and everything like that dr perry he's banging she's banging gary adams and uh well trying to bang him anyway they're cuddling. This happened like three, four times this happened here. Wow. One Thursday, she said, I'd like to be with you, but I don't have any money, he said to her.

And she said, that's okay. I'll pay. You paid last time. And he didn't want to take her money, but it's $30. I mean, it's a gross motel in New Mexico. Who gives a shit? So, again again nothing worked though nothing worked she said she didn't mind she says quote perry doesn't hug me or kiss me like you do

we don't have sex either so she's like it's at least i'm getting something finally they go one afternoon in the spring of 1983 to trinidad lake and um they spread out they spread out an Indian blanket out of you in the midst of just all the scenery and the lake and everything else. And at that point, it came to life, Jimmy. Yeah, it's roaring. The mountain gods in the outdoor air. When they show you a chorus commercial, those streams of the... They're not bullshitting.

That water does a lot for you. Yeah. It's as hard as a rock. So it was beautiful, and they got on just a fucking... But Gary said that he didn't think he really pleased her, though. That's all. He didn't feel like he pleased her. And she said, oh, I loved it.

And he's like, no, you didn't, like he pleased her. And she said, oh, I loved it. And she said, you know, he's like, no, you didn't. And all that sort of shit. And, you know, he said that over time, he said, you know, it was hard. He figured out how to satisfy her over time, though. She needs to fuck in a certain way. And she told him he told a friend of his, quote, a lot of times she has to grab a man's dick and actually move it herself. Oh, position it and move it and rub it the way she wants it. And once I found out that out, I was able to do it real easy with her.

She just had to be in control, I guess. So you don't fuck her. She fucks her. She uses your dick as a dildo and then you're there. But that's that's he's like that's the thing about guys we don't care we don't even care we're like great in the end i'm gonna fuck it's fine it's fine you know what i mean i don't know it's gonna work out don't we care i mean we'd like it to be a little better than that but i mean if we're it's we're happy if they're happy though no no no that's not

great sex but that's insane if they're doing something to get themselves off we're never like hey hey this isn't cool for me we're like it doesn't matter if it hurts it doesn't matter if there's like a cramp coming in or we're like we'll hold it off as long as it takes we don't care yeah we're trying for that that's what i mean. That's the line, I think. Position it and move it. I'll do whatever it takes. I'm in. I'm trying everything.

Except that. I'll try whatever once. I don't know. Maybe it's great. Maybe she really works it like a fucking 18-wheeler shifter, though. We have no idea, Jimmy. This might be satisfactory. You got to try it once.

Jimmy, look at her driver's license. You think she doesn't know what she's doing you're right come on the court system of colorado says differently getting her to comes like having luke hang do a bicycle kick like she's got to do some crazy shit to get it done yeah she's got a certain tv show has to be on there's a lot to be said here too much so it's a lot anyway uh yeah that's gary though gary loved going down on sharon that was his favorite thing in the world he told a friend jesus christ and i quote this could only be a quote quote she tasted so good i always called it her special sauce oh my god you dirtbag that's a guy who lives in a ramshackle trailer at the bottom of cougar ridge that's a guy's i just love her special sauce buddy i can't get enough of it then he goes on that's not enough of it that's not a call always called her special sauce she'd get real wet and it was almost like an addicting drug.

Once I had it with her, I just had to have it. Yikes. Wow. What the fuck, man? Wow. That is embarrassing for him. The fact that he called it her special sauce to a person who then had told another person who put it in print. That is wild.

That is an embarrassing thing to say. I called it her special sauce. Why'd you do that? Why'd you call it that? This isn't fucking raising canes, sir. That's gross. This is disgust. Not a Big Mac.

What are you talking about? He's in Cain's, sir. That's gross. This is disgust, not a Big Mac. What are you talking about? So they keep fucking and fucking all over the place. Motels by the lake over here, at her house when Perry's not there. You name it, they're banging all over town.

Finally, Sharon tells Gary that Perry is becoming suspicious. And then she also says, and it's really bad because everything's getting worse now that he's suspecting something because he's always abusive. But now he's really abusive. He slaps me. He beats up the children. He beats them, knocks them around. And then she showed him a bruise and said Perry did this on one of his drunken tirades. She said, I'm afraid of him. And Gary was like oh jesus

that's terrible um jeez i can't that's that's amazing he said i he wanted to protect her and he said quote have you ever thought of him having an accident oh god and she said she said yeah i thought of getting rid of him for years that's's what she said. She said, but he doesn't have much insurance on him. Well, if he beats you, then the insurance really doesn't matter. I mean, he said, well, think about it and see what you want to do about it. And yeah, anyway, he's at this point he lost. Perry has lost his office. He rents some space in a chiropractor's office for $35 a month, but he still struggles.

It's all sorts of these fucking problems here. Then finally, on one of the fuck dates, Sharon tells Gary, listen, we have to get rid of Perry. Dr. Perry is, you know, this is terrible here. I told, you know, at one point he even tried to kill me. That's what she said. She said, quote, they got, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, so Sharon, I'm sorry. This is another thing that happens here.

Gary then says, so they'd made a mild attempt at murder here, okay? Gary said that they, quote, got Perry real drunk and pushed him in a pool. And what Sharon thought they were drowning and they went in the house and they just left him floating in the water and then a few minutes later he came to the door and couldn't remember what happened and thought he fell in yeah he was like what the hell happened i woke up in a pool so that's interesting um so sharon said that you know it needs to be done right she said i said, I want him out of my life. I want to be free.

I want to be free. And then Craig is like, I have that tape. So June 1983, Gary Adams and a friend are at a rest stop. They're in the cab of Gary's truck smoking and talking about Sharon's been abused and beaten up by her husband. And this is ridiculous. So Perry's car comes by. They're waiting on Perry. This is the end of it.

They're going to do something. Gary and his friend got in the truck and they drive to catch up. Perry, Perry sees him, smiles and waves. Hey, how you doing? Follow me. Let's hang out, buddy. Yeah. So they pull up in a tavern and they have a few beers together.

Perry has no idea. No. No idea. After a few rounds, they decide, let's go to the strip club outside Denver. Yeah. All right. So they get in the car to go to the strip club. It's a long ride.

Oh, yeah. Fuck it. Who cares? While Gary and Perry went to the bathroom, this is when Gary said to his friend, put some of the drugs in his beer when I go to the bathroom. this is when they gary said to his friend put some of the drugs in his beer when i go to the bathroom you spock his beer and then when we walk outside we'll walk him out we'll finish him off he'll be all drugged up so back at the table perry drinks and um after like two sips he puts the glass down and he says ah that tastes gross it's real flat tasting nasty

and it says out here another beer you Take this one away. It stays flat. I don't know. Something wrong with it. So Perry didn't drink anymore then. And the problem is he didn't get real sloppy either. So they just hung out at a strip club, drank more beer. Shit. And they decided, Gary and Perry decided to split a motel room at that point.

Because they were too drunk to drive home. Yeah. motel room at that point. Because they're too drunk to drive home. Yeah, so the next morning, the two of them and their friend there, Gary's friend had breakfast at a cafe in Golden and chatted and had a good old time and Perry said see you guys later and they went, bye Perry and he said, bye Gary and Gary's friend

and they drove away and that's what happened. There was no, nothing. This is a great night. Yeah, now Sharon sent Gary out to kill her husband. Right. So she's like, all right, this is awesome. Sent him out the night before. Perry never came home.

So she's like, fucking done and done, right? Next morning, key in the lock. Here comes Perry. Hi, honey, I'm home. Good morning. Huh? She's like, what the fuck happened here? So she was very,

she was very mad at, at Gary for that and disappointed. A short time later, Gary told Perry that he's going to buy some, some guns at a bargain. A guy selling a bunch of guns, a bargain. So, um,

Perry said, well, sure, I'll take a bargain gun. Why not? Let's do it. So, um,

one night when his wife wasn't going to be home, Gary told Perry that he could you know pick gary up pick me up at my house and we'll go get these guns so um you know they talk as they drove to get the guns perry was talking and he's talking all about sharon and all this terrible shit that's happened in the marriage and gary starts to question sharon's stories at this point yeah he said that the doctor seemed like a genuinely nice guy. He's like, he said, I can't imagine this guy doing the things that Sharon's claiming he's doing.

And he's like, is she fucking lying to me? Is that W like, you know, does that all, what the fuck? Is there an L next to the W? What's going on? So they arrived in Pueblo. They stopped at a Burger King. And Perry also had to stop at a local pearl vision place to say hi to a friend and uh they approach clear creek which

is a rocky canyon full of water yep gary says pull over perry i gotta take a piss all right pull on over here would you so um yeah uh what ends up happening here is they get out and uh Yeah, what ends up happening here is they get out and they're they like I said, stop to take a piss and they're doing that. And what he tells Gary had told his friend, by the way, earlier in the day, he told a friend and said, pick me up at midnight at the first tunnel past Golden. Sounds suspicious. So the friend said, OK. And they like I said, they've been hanging out drinking around midnight. They pull over. He's got an old VW is what the doctors drive and what they're driving in.

Like a bug. Yeah. And Perry didn't like driving in the rain either. So that was as they're going. They pull over. They pull into a parking strip next to the Clear Creek to get some sleep. And he says, I got to take a leak. And he says, yeah, well, maybe we'll nap for a minute so perry says okay and he's

trying to get the car seat to go back so he could you know i can get a couple of blinks here winks whatever so gary um didn't have a tire iron on him so gary went down to the water's edge to look for a rock and it was dark and all the rocks seemed too big to carry back up there. So finally he found one he can lift, and he went back, and he saw where it was and memorized the path to it. And he said, hey, Perry, woke him up. He said, I've dropped my goddamn wallet while I was taking a piss. Fuck, I can't find it. Will you help me look for it down here?

Fucking son of a bitch. So Perry went, yeah, sure. He grabbed a flashlight. And they go down, and look for it down here fucking son of a bitch so perry went yeah sure he grabbed a flashlight and they go down and it had rained the fucking banks are surging this it's a supposed to be a creek but it is like us it's raging at this point and it's rocky too yeah this is if you've been on a rapids ride at a theme park this is what it's based on so the beam of the flashlights going through you can see everything and uh but they're looking around they can't perry can't find the wallet. He goes, I can't see shit.

I don't know what the fuck, man. He's looking down. I don't see anything. So Gary is about a 15-pound rock, and he comes up behind him and smashes Perry in the head with this rock. Oh, my God. That's how he does it? Well, he said he used all his might, and he said, though, he didn't know that a human skull was so tough because Perry fell to his hands and knees like down by into the water and blood started pouring down.

But he jumped back up again. Yeah. And Gary said he couldn't believe it. He said, what the fuck? He didn't get knocked out. What's going on here? So Gary pushed Perry back down and tried to hold his head underwater. Oh, my God.

So now they're fighting and fucking gary's trying to fight him and perry's fighting for his goddamn life um perry's also doing okay because he's a lot bigger he's a taller guy and he's got some leverage on him and he's he weighs more he's got more leverage gary's a smaller guy and uh so gary is trying to put all his weight on top of him and they're fighting and all of this shit. He said that just when he thought he had got him and thought he was like knocked out and or drowned or something. He said he let go of him

and Perry popped right the fuck back out of the water. Gary said quote like a freaking horror movie. That's how Gary described it. At one point Gary slipped and the water this water is fucking ice cold too. Gary slipped its waist this water's fucking ice cold, too. Gary slipped, it's waist-high water,

and he said, holy shit, he got scared that he was going to get taken away by the current. So he said the fighting had taken them, they're going into the creek more, into a more dangerous territory. He said all of a sudden, they were fighting, fighting, fighting, and out of nowhere, they were just about to attack each other again in the water and perry just started going the other direction the current

got him and just shit took him downstream gone with a bloody head with a bloody head just going downstream extreme now if you go to kill somebody this is great if that kills him but what if he doesn't get killed now you can't catch up to him to kill him he's going down a fuck what he's supposed to do run up the bank next to him hold on's going down a fuck. What are you supposed to do? Run up the bank next to him. Hold on, you son of a bitch. I'll get you when you fucking land. Like, you better hope he hits his head on a fucking other rock or something. You're in deep shit.

So he ends up, Gary gets behind the wheel of the VW. He drives it a half mile away. And when it hit about 20 miles an hour, he jumped out of the moving car while he was driving. The car went into the creek with its headlights still on oh not about it's a good plan and floated he was like what the fuck yeah they don't fucking volkswagens float the bottom of that is just a flat pan yeah water doesn't go in he didn't realize that he goes god damn it so gary said i knew that what was i thinking why did I do that?

It's a bubble of air. What are you doing, Gary? So he's like, shit. He goes, if a car comes by, they're going to see a fucking car with its headlights on and water floating there. That's not great. So he's like, shit. He goes and pushes the car and gets it back to the, he gets it out of the water somehow

too, which is fucking crazy because it's floating. I don't know if he can push it or what. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious

convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He gets home about four o'clock in the morningondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So at 9 a.m. he told his wife that he had to go up to the roundhouse because Perry owed him some money. So while he was there he told Sharon Perry ain't coming back.

We hope. Hopefully. We don't know. He's going to come home with like kelp on him and shit. Like I lived with the wolves for three months and I learned some things. You know. They nursed me back to health. He's going to be like Nell.

So they friends got there to the house at one point at one point expecting to see perry and uh sharon said perry didn't come home last night we were you know we were expecting all these friends he didn't come i don't know what's going on with him and what's happening and they said oh well you live all the way out here in the country what if he went off the road he could be anywhere they said you should call highway patrol and she did and she's called highway patrol and they said there were no accidents reported involving a black vw beetle right and i don't know and her friends were like i don't know either so they all got drunk and worried yeah let's get drunk so on the sunday morning though a man was jogging along clear creek and came across the mangled remains of a car, as the book puts it here.

No windows, no license plate. Looked like it had been all sorts of fucked up, too, because it has been here. And he was like, wow, that's really weird. And the car ended up being Perry Nelson's car, obviously. So when that ended up coming back, Sharon went to the Trinidad Police Department wanting to file a missing persons report. He's missing, damn it. She asked for an officer to come to her house, but no one showed up. So she said she went there.

And she said, this is why she went down there. She said, quote, I'm bananas by now. They're saying, calm down, calm down. We can call the doctor to give you something. Cheer up, bitch. Your husband's dead. Immediately. We can just drug you something cheer up bitch yeah your husband's dead immediately we can just drug you shut up that's what they did back then good god and this was the 80s um i said how can i calm down you people don't even know what's going on here you tell me someone's

coming to my house nobody comes to my house i don't sleep all night i know i've got patients coming in i know he's got patients coming in i don't know where my husband is get my kids to the sitter. And I've got an office full of people that's going to be sitting there. She's yelling and screaming and all this type of shit. So next morning they had a search party. The sheriff's department, the fire department. No one had seen.

No one had heard. No one knows shit about anything. Nothing going on. They can't find her at all. They can't find Perry at all. Emergency rescuers told everybody that nothing was found in the car. The only thing remained in the car was a sleeping bag that was hooked to the passenger side mirror and dangled in the water, which could have belonged to somebody else. And they said that was kind of weird looking.

But other than that, they couldn't really find anything. They said that the barricade or the barrier for it to sustain that kind of damage, the car would have had to been going like 80 miles an hour. Wow. He jumped out and went down a hill, sped up. He was moving. He's moving. He said it was only 20 miles an hour, though, so I don't know. Sharon said that the VW had been painted two months before, and she said the paint hadn't had a chance to become baked on yet okay that was part of her description so um they went to the cores plant in golden to make

sure that perry hadn't been um basically i guess there's a big screen that they have to keep debris from contaminating the water they use for cores so they wanted to make sure he wasn't caught in the cores net yeah gross oh god uh from there they drank perryors, so they wanted to make sure he wasn't caught in the Coors net. Yeah, gross. Oh, God. From there, they... They drank Perry? That's what they're saying. They backtracked. They covered all sorts, two miles along the creek. They found little bits of the VW

pizzas of the seat at one point, some maps. Yeah, they were like, they didn't know what the fuck here. So Sharon said the researchers, the researchers, the searchers don't give up. She said, he's here. yeah they were like they didn't know what the fuck here um so sharon said the researcher the researchers the searchers don't give up she said he's here we have to find him they brought in a an air sea and rescue unit of the air force this is a big deal here they have uh you know people with binoculars and they have people uh going under the water looking for him it's a fucking

full search party here they find ugots dick nothing don't find perry at all so they're like um what the fuck here so sharon goes well he's either dead or he left i don't know i'm selling the house so that's that she sells the house not dead you can't sell the house right well no but she's trying that's part of the reason she's gonna have to fight here. She put his practice up for sale as well. She said, the reason I put the practice up for sale so soon is it took over two years to find a buyer for the RF for the Rocky Ford practice. And I knew also that a practice without a doctor doesn't sell very well.

And I want his practice to continue with a new doctor and according to the president of colorado optometric optometric association the sooner a practice is listed after death the better a chance a doctor will be willing to take over that's why wow i looked at a pamphlet and the president of this association told me this was a thing to do it's all business uh they had a plane with infrared equipment looking over the creek and all that didn't find shit so they were like so then all the rumors started going around maybe the vw was a plant and a setup and she he's buried somewhere out on their property maybe he's buried somewhere in the wildness of the wilds of colorado it's the wilderness as far as the eye can see so they were like fuck this is crazy so a couple of dozen of perry's friends go to look

for him including sharon uh they all go out looking for them and uh they all say they feel so terrible for sharon this is just awful jesus christ all the friends all the church people all that sort of thing so uh they said that everyone was serious and she seemed a little too she seemed like kind of happy like they were out on a like at the going for like a the bike ride that was the thing to do like a scavenger hunt yeah but they were like who knows i mean people handle shit different ways and um so they talk about you know they're trying they just are trying to find him and and uh at one point a search party found black paint on the left side of a guardrail what's that like that's interesting on a guardrail there was some black paint smeared off okay and she said okay well that's you know that's something um so she said

they said obviously it went out here they said maybe it spun out of control what the fuck so the bulk of the group went ahead down to the stream here and uh sharon and gary remain behind though going oh fuck is he down there they don't know so they said um you know they're all shit everybody thought that something was going on between gary and sharon because they stayed behind they couldn't find him they went out and ate pizza hut they went out to a sit down pizza hut dinner drove back to trinidad yeah oh my god gary and shannon went up to the roundhouse and went to bed oh boy oh boy jesus christ he's gonna bang her and perry's house yep so all the rumors are going on and everything like that within two months of shacking up gary says that he can't stand sharon

anymore yeah says he can't live with her anymore he told her that even though he loved her he loved his wife too he called dancy she agreed to work everything back bring their son back to the ranch and we'll all work it all out it's all gonna be fine and uh sharon said that's fine that's cool i you know what i didn't think it was working out either because she said quote i love you too but i'm moving in with buzz okay buzz is back yeah wouldn't didn't expect that did you so um yeah buzz is back in and she's buzz has money that's the main reason why in the end here so august 14th 1984 she's living with buzz she's still fucking gary on the side though oh boy with the kids and all this type of shit because she owes him so much she's embedded with that guy forever now.

We've killed together. She can't piss him off. Yeah. Right. This is 13 months after Perry went missing. Gary, Sharon, and the kids are driving into Trinidad. And a cop car coming in the opposite direction makes a U-turn. Sirens blaring.

Pulls them over. Okay? So Gary's getting out going, I wasn't fucking speeding. What the hell? The cop goes, i have to talk to sharon away from the kids yeah so they wave sharon out there she comes over here and they said we found something 14 months later they found perry's body in the creek along a sandbar up near golden wow so this fucking thing traveled too man that water was moving 14 months later i

mean it could have got caught on a it must have gotten caught on like a rock in the water or something like that. And like a calmer place because it was like remarkably, remarkably well kept. Preserved? Yeah. Because it's free, the water's freezing. Right. And there you go. So it was very preserved.

And he went through winter too. Yeah. Winter then. Holy shit. And went through multiple seasons. Christ. Went very winter, too. Yeah. Winter. Then shit. And I went through multiple seasons. Christ went through some seasons twice. He was he was wearing the same clothing as she described that he left. He had left for an optical convention in Denver.

And this is what happened. So now the body meant that she could get more money. Now she could get all the money she could get anything she wants. The insurance company had been holding out on the $200,000 they had to pay up. Now they have to pay up. She didn't have to sue anyone to be able to sell the practice because he was legally declared dead. All this type of shit. Sharon and Gary were talking about how they were going to spend it all and live in it and all that sort of thing.

He said his suggestion was, I'll take a third, you i'll take a third you take a third and you take a third for the kids okay gary don't tell me how to spend my money yeah well because it's kind of like we'll split the insurance if you kill him i think so he didn't say i'll take half and then you and the kids get half he said a third for the kids that was nice so the insurance money's rolling in she's doing well she had a you know, she's buying all new furniture. She's doing all sorts of shit. Oh, by the way, she sort of married Buzz in this time period as well. Yeah.

Yeah. Her and Buzz went out in a field and exchanged their own vows. It wasn't a legal wedding, but it meant a lot to them. Right. So, Jesus Christ. Spiritual husband. You know how that goes. But then at one point, though, Gary, you know, she's sitting there.

She seems unhappy. And he says, what's up, man? What's up with you? And she says, Buzz needs to have an accident. Oh, no. What are you doing? He said, an accident? Like, an accident like an accident accident.

She said, yeah, I think he should have an accident real soon. And Gary said, Sharon, it's too soon. You just killed a husband. I just did that. Jesus Christ. You're like you're a whore for murder, not for sex. This is a lot. So he was like, too soon, baby.

It's only been a couple of years since Perry, you know, can't do that right now. So she was like, I don't know. It's only been a couple years since Perry. Can't do that right now. So she was like, I don't know. Maybe she figured I'll work on it. I'll work on it a little bit. She said, quote, at one point she said, it'd be real easy. All you have to do is hit him on the head and have him fall on a lake. Yeah, that's fine. We did that already.

He said, that's stupid. It's greedy. He said, think about it, Sharon. You're married to two people. They're dead and water is connected. This is not good. That's just common sense. Yeah.

So she said, fine, fine, fine. Maybe drowning wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe when he's out delivering shit for his business. She said he drives around in the canyon. You could drive by and shoot him and make it look like a robbery. He said, no, come on. He said, you aren't even legally married. You're not going to get his shit.

What do you care? And so that kind of went away. He said, you aren't even legally married. You're not going to get a shit. What do you care? And so, and they, that kind of went away. Buzz ended up falling off through the wayside. And then early spring, 1987, Sharon is trolling through the personal ads,

which we do old timey eighties, personal ads on Patreon, patreon.com slash crime and sports. And they're fucking hilarious. They're the best thing ever. We know exactly what she did. She finds a fireman named glenn harrelson he's a denver fireman and she calls him up from his ad she digs him he digs her a lot right away his friends though didn't like her she said that they said she would wedge herself between him and his friends uh glenn here and he she wants all his attention that's all there

is to it so eventually uh he was just kind of with her he wasn't even hanging out with his friends anymore or doing anything like that she said she didn't like her her rental house there's a barking dog next door glenn said you and the kids you know you can move into my house come on in it's a big house nice yard for the kids, close to the eye doctor. It's all great. It's going to be wonderful there. So she, Glenn told his friends he was the happiest man

in the world. He loved it. He doesn't care that it happened so fast. This is meant to be. Finally, finally, this is so great.

Then Glenn found out that Sharon had another boyfriend. Uh-oh. And he was like, fuck, never mind. But then he told his friends I'm not giving up I'm gonna win her I'm gonna win her heart you know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna ask her to marry me she can't fuck other people if we're married duh so his friends were like what

are you stupid and he was like I sure am and on June 2nd 1988 1988, they got married again. So, yeah, she's married again. And right, by the way, right before they get married, Glenn took her to the insurance office and came in to put Sharon down as his beneficiary. So after a little while, the relationship is not working out. He wanted she didn't she wanted to stay in the roundhouse and he lived he was a Denver fireman he needed to live by Denver she said I will not raise

my kids in a city they will be raised in a small town only in the country as we know that works out well all the time yeah I will not move to the city I like these two boys who make a murder podcast about small towns only all only um oh by the way she's still fucking gary on the side did i mention that as well she has to forever

forever yeah um things are going well for gary and uh his family everything's going well but gary said he just wanted to oh god he told a friend of his i just need to taste that secret sauce that's he told a friend of his oh god damn it there's a reason why some small barbecue joints thrive james they got i'm telling you you don't know what's in it but damn it is it good keeps you coming back so they end up running into each other is how they got rekindled they ran into each other and started making out immediately in front of the children and everything they didn't care um she said i miss you so much and i'm also married yeah and um she he said but you know he couldn't stay away you couldn't stay away just my dick couldn't do it so um yeah one day uh gary comes up uh to the house there the roundhouse he knew sharon was grading the driveway and he said he's going to go up there to see if he could lend a little help.

That's all. So Sharon was driving the four wheel drive. She had like a like a grader that she was pulling along there, pulling behind her to make it less bumpy here. So Sharon, though, you know, he's he was he was fucking into her. So that's how they got fucking again. By the way, can't get it up again this time. Oh, no. He blames it on inside. There's a framed picture of Perry on the wall because it's some of the kid's dad's dad.

So he says, it's the fucking picture on the wall. Take it off the wall. And he got all mad and stomped out. That's why my dick don't work because Perry's staring at me. I can't do it while he looks at me. Either way, he went back in and went down on her, though. That happened. And I'm not even kidding. That's what happened that day.

So she saw him as like, this is right from the book, by the way. Quote, in Sharon's eyes, Gary Adams was the last of a breed, a mountain man, a cattle rustler, a renegade. And he was the greatest greatest most tender lover she'd ever known he was the type to steal a neighbor's beef cattle butcher it with a chainsaw and throw a couple of steaks on the grill for a romantic dinner for two while he's covered in viscera ain't this romantic hey you have some brain on your here get it off your hat there there we go now it's more romantic that's the craziest thing i ever heard you don't you don't use a chainsaw correct that's not the way you do that

i think you use like a bandsaw and like a it's like wood but not a chainsaw so she um yeah so she said that she'd been married to a preacher a doctor and a fireman but her heart belonged to the cowboy she's fucked the entire village, people, at this point. I swear to God. This is insane. The butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker, too. All of them. They're in there somewhere.

November 15th, 1988, Glenn mentions her husband that she believes that someone's been breaking into his home. Yeah. She said he didn't want to report it to the police, but she said it also appeared that whoever was breaking in must have a key because they're not like no forced entry, but someone's in there. I don't know what's going on. Well, there's a plot against Glenn. That's why.

And she tells, Sharon tells Gary, I want it done before Thanksgiving. Glenn's mother's coming from Des Moines, and I don't want to spend the holiday with her. I can't stand her. Would you kill him? I hate her. Kill him quickly because I hate that mother. So she drew out a map.

It's in Thornton is where he lives. Yeah. North of Denver. Yep. She draws out a map puts a small slip of paper on a small slip of paper telling him he should park in the King So supers parking lot or at the adjacent safeway yeah she said also uh there's an area of new construction not far away so you could maybe drive to there and kind of park in there and sneak in um she said though uh

i need you to do something though that i so i know he's gone i need you to bring me his wedding ring now it's a mob thing now it's a mob like bring me joey's finger i want to know that he's dead like you know what i mean tongue in his ass like put his tongue in his ass cut it off and then bring it to me that's what i need i need to see that so she said that uh she said that he doesn't wear it very often and uh you know he said well give me a key and i'll fucking do it so eventually um and he would he was the one harassing her. Give me the key. Give me the key.

Let me get this over with. Let's do it. So she finally said, here's the goddamn key. Get out of my face is what it was. And she said so. She said he didn't know. She didn't know if he was being even was going to do it or not. I would.

He killed your other husband. Jesus Christ. You know. I would. He killed your other husband. Jesus Christ. Why wouldn't you know? So Glenn wouldn't... Basically, in order for Gary to cover up and not see this, he's got to park his car somewhere else. So he's going to park on this construction site.

Then he's like, but how do I cover this up? Last time we threw him in the water, and that's a way to cover it up because the water messed up the time of death. It looks like he hit his head on the rocks. this isn't a fucking house how do i kill him in a house and get rid of it he goes well there's two elements and we got water and we got fire what about fire water in the water fire on the land what do you think there that's a good way to cover it up so he's like yeah we could do that so he takes the map and all this type of shit and he gets the key and he's ready. It's 830 at night. He's ready to go here. So he stands outside the guy's house here, Glenn's house,

and he says it was a hard place to find, but he finally gets it. He gets it. He gets in and on the dresser, he sees the wedding band. Just like Sharon said, he picks it up, puts it in his pocket. Okay, I have my trinket. And it was 8.45 p.m. She said he's home no longer than 9. She said he's so predictable, you could set your watch by him. So he, Gary, ends up sitting in the living room, and he's got a lead pipe sitting there,

and he just sits in a recliner in his living room and waits for Glenn. Glenn comes home and Gary raises the lead pipe up and wax Glenn in the head. Glenn goes down. But same way that Perry went down, went down his hands and knees, got back up. And now he's trying to fight. God damn it, Gary. You're so weak. In a movie, you hit somebody once and they go out.

In real life, you need to hit him like 20 fucking times it's a they're fighting for their life they don't just go out like that so um they're fighting and he's like holy shit so gary hit him once more with the pipe it doesn't put him out again he's like fuck i thought this would knock him out glenn grabs gary's arm and forces him to the floor flipping gary on his back so this is a fucking mess so now they're fighting and the whole thing's a disaster glenn's fighting for his life now gary has got to fight for his life because all this shit glenn kicked gary's leg and knee when they got up again so gary's like hurting so eventually though he says fuck this and pulls in reaches into his pants and pulls out

his gun which he had took as a just in case he didn't want it to be loud for the neighbors but he said just in case so he shot him twice instead and that ended it very quickly bang bang Glenn goes down shows over at that point not our show but Glenn's show at least

so he was like fuck this is not the way he wanted it to happen there's no way to make this look like an accidental death now. Can't make it look like he fell down and hit his head. I don't know. He's like, okay, got to be a botched burglary now. That's what it has to be. So he got a pile of clothes in the room to try to make it look like it's ransacked.

And we've talked about this before. Investigators know when something is ransacked or when something is made to look ransacked like they can tell the difference if you were just throwing a couple things over to make it look bad they know what you've done so he did that sharon told him that there's uh the grates over the basement windows could be removed so he went downstairs and one of them was loose so he moved a chair up to the window and got up and pulled the grate off. So it looked like somebody came in that way. He's like, okay, okay. He's like, you know, there's a lot of noise coming from the house.

That's not good. He said he went to the back upstairs bedroom and took a jar of coins from the closet and just scattered the contents around the house. Yeah. There's coins everywhere. It must have been a robbery. I see change all over. the house yeah there's coins everywhere must have been a robbery i see change all over it must someone someone must have just been really just like a roll of nickels that exploded that was just a he's half man half nickels so he does all that then he goes to the garage where sharon said

that glenn keeps some of the gas can he returns and he steps over glenn's body and douses the area with gasoline he says he was about to light a match and he's like hold on this is going to go up like a fireball with me standing in here that's not good so i can't throw that down so instead he lights up a cigarette places it inside a book of matches everybody's seen that trick in a movie so it'll burn down light the matches eventually so he does that places that he's so he goes this will give me like four or five minutes to get away perfect so he's gone he rushes out he's sitting in his truck he's waiting for sirens to come he says once there's sirens i know i got a boogie 10 minutes pass no sirens 15 minutes pass no sirens he's like did the cigarette

go out did i not puff on it enough? Shit. God damn it. He gets out of his truck and walks all the way back over there. Went into the open garage and cracks the door open. He said when he cracked the door open, it was a curtain of black smoke. It was completely filled with black smoke. So he shut the door again. And they found footprints that were 18 inches deep running up running all around and all that kind of shit so he trudged back up from his place

and did all of that he drives back down he thinks it's over with it's a little after 4am he shows up to see Sharon and he said it's done she said are you sure he's dead and he goes everything didn't exactly go according to

plan i'll be honest with you to be real honest it wasn't it wasn't smooth i'll say that this was not like a mob hit to the at all um yeah she said well it looks like you're in one piece and he went well yeah that's true he goes i got some bumps and bruises um it didn't quite work out like i wanted it to he goes uh but here here's the wedding ring. I did get that. Got your ring. And she was like, okay. So now she believed that he was there at least. She said, are you sure he was dead before you started the fire? This guy's not good at murder, by the way.

All right. Part of murder is you dead? Okay. That's the whole thing, really. That's you got to kill the person for it to be murder. And he's not good at that. One of the worst ever. Really bad. And he said, yes, and he's not good at that. One of the worst ever. Really bad.

And he said, yes, there was smoke coming from the windows. I didn't see any flame, but I wasn't going back in. So he would have died from smoke inhalation, at least, even if he was alive. So he gave her back the key and the map. She put the key back on the key ring, threw the map into the fireplace, and that was that. Firemen arrive. They know Glenn because he's a fireman. That's their buddy.

So they're like, ah, they because he's a fireman that's their buddy so they're like ah they think he's gone okay um the the reports came in that the house had been burning while the owner was gone because it's all dark inside and shit so um anyway they suspect arson obviously um they they see that there's uh they they an isolated basically an area off to the garage. That's where you enter the house. They come in and they see the poor patterns around an open pit in the floorboards indicating the accelerant had more than likely been used there. So that's arson. Not an accident.

They walk the residence, the perimeter, just so people know. People are interested in that kind of shit here. It's a brick ranch house. They said it was very neatly landscaped. It's all very nice. They see that one of these security grates has been removed from a window in the basement, as we know, obviously. And they said that they knew that it wasn't removed by them because they asked around, did you do that? No.

Okay. So they have a flashlight. They're looking all around. Three-car garage, two vehicles parked in there. They had a nice old Camaro that he had restored. He had a pickup truck, you know, doing his thing. So they said, where's Glenn? Anybody know where he is?

And, you know, we know this house. This is crazy. It's a fireman's house. It's burning. This is a definition of irony, people. So anyway, they're searching through the house. They couldn't find anything, any reason he was home. It's a lot of smoke and it's black and all the bed was made.

His clothes were hung and all this type of shit. Like they said, you know, they don't understand it here. He's not scheduled for duty till 630 the next morning at the fire department. So they saw a bunch of coins. And when they see the coins they go maybe a young officer says maybe a burglary but they saw the coins and then someone who'd done this more than six months goes no this is not that's not how you rob a place usually you take that well he said beside the coins nothing's been disturbed there's a pile of clothes and a bunch

of coins but nothing's been there's no drawers rifled's no, no one's actually looking for anything here. They said no one had taken the firearms neatly arranged on a shelf. That'd be the first thing you'd take, because you can sell those for cash. Weapons are still there. Whole shelf full of weapons here. Yeah, this is where you guys are, you know, he's got guns, it's Colorado, so middle of nowhere. They said the coffee maker, smoke detector, television, everything plastic had been melted

by the heat as well everything is uh there they said the chair over the window that's probably the point of entry but then they said oh no it's not the point of entry because there's still spider webs on the other side of the window intact yeah that's the thing about colorado so no one came in there yeah you gotta wipe up you're gonna fake uh if you're to fake going in and out of a window, you can't have dust sitting on it for six months. That's not good. So they said no one came in and out of here. They said whoever came in, came in through a door. There's burglar alarms, window grates, panic buttons for emergency release.

It had to be with a key or an invitation. Said who would he invite over? So they were talking about it. Who would they invite? Who would he invite? Maybe somebody burned it. Maybe it. Who would they invite? Who would he invite? Maybe somebody burned it. Maybe somebody was watching the house and burned it by accident. They're trying to figure out what the hell happened.

And then finally, as they're moving their flashlights around, one of them says, hey, there's something down there. And they look and they look and they see a twisted, burned, charred figure, melted carpet bunched up in a pile with something inside of it. And he says, Oh, we've got a homicide. And that's what they did. They decide that the, he,

his head is fully intact. Okay. Everything else is burned. And they said the skull didn't explode, which if the skull didn't explode, that meant there's a hole in it. So that meant that he probably had a gunshot wound in their head. That's what the criminologist said.

It's probably a criminalist said it's a gunshot wound probably if the otherwise heads explode 95% of the time in a fire. Yeah. So, yeah, they said this is probably Glenn. They ended up finding two shell casings picked up, one by the TV set, one closer to the door. They processed the crime scene they said it looks like an ambush killer was probably lying in wait when he came in the house it was probably over pretty quickly um shot him in the head twice doused him in gasoline you know lit this bitch up scattered the coins and took the fuck off which is exactly what he did they

figured it out right now he's bad at murder um so yeah they do all of that and uh they at that point they have to uh that point they have to go make the uh make the identity the notification and they were like wow this is crazy this her all the other husband died too twice a widow suspicious deaths and one of the detectives said wouldn't it be weird if we cleared both of them wouldn't it be crazy so they ask around and they find out that holy shit there's a lot of people talking shit about uh sharon and all the things she does and all the people she fucks everybody they talk to they will tell the detectives five more people that she fucked that they didn't know previously but not for like this is who she's banging like she fucked my husband and she fucked this person's husband and she broke up this marriage and shit like that a lot of mean-spirited shit basically um a lot of mean-spirited bullshit and a lot of women talking

about maybe the guys are a lot of the guys maybe the ones who didn't get to bang her talking about i hear she's a skank and she's this and she's that the detectives come to talk to her okay at the house here they uh they have obviously they they glenn's dead they have to tell her all of that and uh everything like that um she said do you know anybody who could have been mad at him you know that sort of thing or you know um anything like that um and she said she said, no, can't imagine. I mean, Jesus Christ, what do you think? Out of everyone, you know, she said, who would be the most likely to kill your husband? And she said, I can't even think anything.

That's crazy. I guess me. I mean, that's so weird. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't understand it. Uh, I can't even imagine who could kill him. Meanwhile, they said, that's really weird because investigators say usually an innocent person can conjure up a short list of people who may have killed like even you know what he got in a fucking argument with that one guy and i don't know if like he said the guy was at the deli the last time he saw him so i don't know something you dig through shit

and i was just watching a an interrogation the other night of a guy whose wife was murdered and turns out she was doing a lot of drugs and she was a confidential informant didn't even tell him about it so shit yeah he didn't know about it so he was real real fucking upset about the whole thing and um they were like do you know who might have killed your your wife and he's like there's one she used to get drugs with i drove one time to the corner i saw him he's a shorter guy couldn't pick him out of a lineup but if you go there he's a short guy he was wearing a red thing like and then there's this other guy too i picked her up at the like he had a list of people that were that were far-fetched but possible you know

what i mean because he's trying to help she goes i can't think of a damn soul i got nobody what they yeah guilty people go no one would ever want to hurt i can't imagine who would want to do this is terrible usually there's someone they got in an argument with, something you can pull out of your ass. So she said, listen, guys, I mean, thanks for coming over to the house and everything, but I have funeral arrangements to make. And, you know, I'll come down there tomorrow and talk to you. And thanks for coming over, though, she said. Appreciate you being here. Thanks a lot.

They were like, OK. When they walked out, the one detective looked to the other and said, quote, she killed him or had him killed. Right. And the guy goes, the other one, Elaine Tigert, said, quote, she's guilty as shit. She's guilty as shit. And they said, she knows more. This is this is ridiculous. So anyway, the they get back to their motel room in town and it was the sheriff's department calling with a name that they should check into. Gary Starr Adams. Maybe look at that guy. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. It was not a – and Sharon never mentioned his name in the interview once. And the sheriff saying that this man was a key individual in her life, and everyone in town said that.

That's well known. She said, quote uh there's another thing right after her doctor and her doctor husband disappeared adams was living with mrs nelson and driving a brand new pickup truck weird suspicious so they were like oh boy um interesting they said nobody came forward with information that could prove dr nelson was murdered by shari or sharon or gary but lots of people thought so. So they sit her down, and they're treating her like a grieving widow

at this point when they sit her down. So they said, you know, they're talking, they said, you know, how could this be? They're talking about Glenn's. And she said she's going to set the record straight right then and there. She said, now I've lost a husband, my second husband, and what in the hell are you doing? Why don't you go look for this person rather than talking to me?

The kids are waiting in an outside room. And anyway, she is she's very upset. She's acting very indignant about why don't you look for him? And they said, listen, listen. OK. OK, Sharon, before we get started, I just want to let you know that you're here of your own free will. OK, you understand you're not under arrest or anything like that. She says, yes, absolutely. So they talk about her personal background. She talks about all this type of shit. She went to Adventist schools and everything like that. She said she was a young bride when she married Reverend Fuller.

And it gives the whole deal. So they said, did you have a relationship before Perry, before you guys got divorced? And she said, no, I was separated. Yes, yes. Which is bullshit. They said, what year did you meet him? She said, 76, 77. That wasn't true.

They said, when were you divorced from Mike? 76. They said, when were you married to Perry? 77. Also not true. They said, within a year's time? And she said, 77, yeah. More like within a year's time. And she said 77. Yeah. More like within a week's time. So, yeah, she didn't. She was trying to change the subject here. By the way, it still never mentions Gary at any point.

And she said, no, absolutely not. She said, is there anyone that could, anyone that could other than the people that, other than people that might have misconstrued a relationship going on with you or like anybody from the outside who might think that? She said, no, absolutely not. They said, anyone that would appear to be extra friendly or just a little more fond than normal? And she said, no, not at all. She said, outside of her son-in-law, Bart Mason, she said, there's no one who helped out with chores at the house or maintenance while Glenn was gone. She said, you know, I do have visitors from time to time, male visitors. That's true.

She said there's a guy named, I think Gary is his name, Gary Adams. He lives down the hill. He comes up once in a while, you know, that sort of thing. They said, did your relationship with him ever go beyond just a friendship? And they said that she acted indignant. She said she had only strayed once, a fling that took place when she came back to the mountains after breaking up with Glenn. But that was before their marriage. And she's maintained a brief. She also mentioned a brief love affair with a guy named Harry Russell.

But that happened after Perry died and before she met Glenn. So I don't like your insinuation is what she said i don't like the what you're what you're getting at here you're you're poking at the wrong shit here so no mention of gary though there none at all none so um she said that she they said that that could have been the end of the interview i don't know anything can i go now and they would have said well i guess sure right instead she kept talking for another two hours what she kept talking she became visibly upset she's just talking at one point they said sharon there's something you're not saying i've been listening to you talk and i don't know the reasons but you're not telling us the truth she said well i can't imagine what you mean.

Whatever could you mean? What? And they said, Sharon, you got to tell us the truth. And she said, they said, and the most important thing in your life now is finding out who killed Glenn Harrelson. Okay, Sharon, you're covering up for someone, aren't you? Okay. You don't need to be a part of that. You didn't kill your husband.

And she said, no, I didn't. And they said, but you know who did. You absolutely do. You don't need the kind of trouble that can cause you. Come on. They're like Sharon and quote, and it's just, and it's going to prey on your mind and it's going to get worse and it's going to get worse for your children's sake. And so they can get on with their lives. And so that you can get on with your life. You need to tell us everything that you know you know like and you're not doing that right now and they said that she just kind of started crying tears started coming down her face and uh you know she started sobbing and she started saying that she maybe she knows something uh and how uh you know she she knows what happened maybe but she's not any part of it she's's been a victim too. Right.

And they said, what can you tell us, Sharon? And she didn't respond. And they said, were the kids getting in the way? And she didn't answer. And they said, in your relationship with Glenn? She said, no. She said she and Glenn were happy. His mother and his coworkers could vouch for that.

He didn't complain about me. And they said, look, Sharon, I've been looking at you and you've been doing this for a real long time. You're a troubled woman. It says whore on your license. And she said, yes, I am. And they said, you're absolutely about to fall apart at the seams. And I know why. What happened up there wasn't supposed to happen that way. And I don't know what happened.

Okay. And that's what we're trying to find out. And they said, it's not going to go away. It's not going to change. It's only going to get worse. Tell us what you know. It's obvious you're scared of something. We'll protect you. We'll put you in a hotel room and guard you if necessary. Tell us what you know.

And she said, she looked around real suspiciously and said, I will but not here. These walls have ears. What does that mean? It's the police interrogation room. This is the place. If you're going to talk to cops about a murder, this is the place you do it. They said if she's willing to talk, they'll take her anywhere.

So they said, then we'll go. Let's go then. She said, sure. Let's get your kids. She said, I've got to get my kids. And there you go. She said, we'll go. The cops said, we'll go and get them from your daughter's place and we'll go.

No one said another word. They were driving and driving and driving. And they said, they're go. The cops said, we'll go and get them from your daughter's place and we'll go. No one said another word. They were driving and driving and driving. And they said they're driving around Trinidad. No idea where they're going. They stopped to pick up her kids and she said, get on the highway. And she was like, OK. At one point, the top cops both took their guns out and put them on their lap because they're like, is she taking us into a fucking ambush? What is she doing?

They don't know where she's going, but they don't want to call her on her shit because they want her to talk. So the kids are asking what's going on. And she says, we'll see when we get there. Like smiling, like everything's fine. So anyway, they get all the way there and they stay. At one point they said, are we just going to drive to Denver or are you going to want to stop? Can we drive to Denver? We can drive to Denver if that's what you need to feel safe.

And she shook her head. She said, no, no, just continue a little bit further to Walsenburg, Colorado. What's there? Quote, I know of a pizza hut where we can talk privately. What the fuck are you talking about? Have a chat over a meat lovers. Let's go. What are you talking about?

She's like, they have the buffet there. It's so good. The only place in Colorado where you can have a private conversation is a pizza hut in Walsenburg, Colorado or Walsenburg, whatever the fuck it is. They make the best breadsticks, James. It's terrific. We have to go there.

She said, they said, what the fuck? In for a penny, in for a pound. Let's go to Pizza Hut. We'll get the kids a couple of personal pens and we'll get on with this shit. So they gave the kids a bunch of quarters and told them to play arcade games because they had games there. So they were like, yeah, whatever. That's fine. So then she said, quote, it all started a long time ago.

It all started a long time ago. Once upon a time, she talked about how they had financial obligations with Perry and tax problems and no marriage is easy, but no one with money problems. She goes into this whole thing, the whole Pizza Hut deal. She said that, by the way, she also said, I like this Pizza Hut because I used to come here with Gary because it's out of town. And a couple times I just joke, just for the thrill, I do dine and dash in here. She said one time though, the kid who worked here caught me and I had to come in and pay the bill.

I was like, what does that mean? She's just looking for life. She's looking to feel alive. Go back to the scene of the crime? Crazy. She said, quote, then she said, let's talk about uh let's talk about gary you know the her accomplice she said quote he rode with perry from trinidad to denver and i don't know i still don't know whether he killed perry first and then pushed the car in the river or what

happened i really don't know uh she said there'd been some insurance money and she figured the police would consider money part of the motive um so they asked her for more details and uh she said now uh they said now people make mistakes sharon and sometimes we make really big ones this is while children are eating pizza by the way right but when you're a good person like that i have a large supreme and a small meatlover oh yeah just put them on the table where can we okay thanks walk away for the waitress to walk away. Okay. But when you're a good person like we know you are,

it comes to light, you know, obviously. And so she says what happens. Yeah, he killed for me, and it was, you know, I didn't know he was going to do it, and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the Pizza Hut starts. It's like 4 o'clock. People start showing up at Pizza Hut to eat. So they're like, damn it so they go they go get a room at the best western next door

and she's like oh it's just like a tour of being with gary so my two days that are entirely different yet so the same so that she said he was everything that she dreamed about in her teenage years when she was going to adventist schools and all this shit. She said she wanted a bad boy and he was it. She said, quote, ruggedness, a wild side, totally out of every boundary I'd ever known. Not religious, black hair, blue eyes, ice blue eyes, survivalist protector. I thought military, macho, guns. I'd never experienced this side of life before. I'd never been around anyone like this before. I didn't know people like this existed. I thought, I wonder what this side of life is like.

It's like living in a trailer and having your husband killed. That's what it's like. But your pussy gets eaten a lot. A lot because he's got a limp dick. So he has to figure out how to really do that a lot. So Jesus Christ, man. He's like, yeah, that's what she's telling she tells him all about it she said that uh she gave up the whole thing um they said that the only thing missing was the the the

house how the fuck did he get in the house and she goes oh because i have my the key to the house right here it's on my it's on my key ring you never asked what do you what he has investigated or something a bunch of idiots? Oh, man. So then they go, well, okay. They walk over to the kids. One of them is 19 years old. Yeah. And they walk up to her and they go, you need to make arrangements.

Your mom told us she had a part in Glenn and Perry's deaths. So you should take the kids somewhere else. So, yeah, that's how that ended up happening. So the cops arrest Garyary it's 1 30 p.m dogs won't stop barking he's like what the fuck is going on out here shut the fuck up and he's like oh and there's a bunch of cops there and they're like uh hey gare how's it going what's up buddy and he's like he gave it up pretty quick he uh he said he'll he agreed to plead guilty to two counts

of first degree murder right away because he heard that sharon's gonna testify against him otherwise he's like secret sauce oh boy fuck god damn it jesus christ can i just sniff the chair when she's done testifying that's all i want so this fucking idiot he's such a moron this guy he told a jailhouse snitch by the only thing that was missing was the gun and he told a snitch where he hid the gun so they ended up finding the gun under the porch steps at the ranch their ballistics matched up her whole story goes that way and uh so anyway that she he says though that he still he's sharon continues to wonder if gary ever loved her enough to divorce nancy she said later on and he says he still loved her enough to divorce Nancy. She said later on.

And he says he still loved Sharon and remained. You know, he said he would talk all about it because he loved Sharon. He didn't even care. That's how he puts it. So anyway, they go to court here for Dr. Perry first. OK, he pleads guilty in both cases. And now she has to plead guilty. So she pleads guilty to first-degree murder of her husband here. They're going to try these cases separately, the two different murders, so they're not stacking them.

And the judge says, you, ma'am, may fuck off life in prison with no parole for 20 years. So 20 to life, but no parole for 20, though. Hard 20. So then she goes for glenn okay she pleads guilty in adams county for that one to first degree murder and uh they say you ma'am may fuck off another life sentence no parole for 40 years have that 40 years. Have that. 40 years. Hard 40 there. Hard 20 there. Are they concurrent? Concurrent. Concurrent. But either way, no parole until you're mid-80s, sweetheart.

And by the way, we'll talk about this. But that's the way that goes. And they sentence Gary to life as well. So he's done as also. Gary is pretty fucked here. He's fucked. Especially after he tells goddamn jailhouse informants what he's done and shit like that so he's in there for life as well um he's got like pretty much the same

thing she has the hard 40 so 1991 the nelson children including danny and misty file a claim against the insurance companies that paid off sharon yeah so as more information came out it looks like the insurance investigators were suspicious of Sharon Nelson, but they didn't really say much, and they ended up not informing the police what they had uncovered, and they just gave her money. Wow. Yeah.

They found out that, Jesus Christ, that Perry had not left Trinidad alone the night he disappeared, that Sharon had purchased five of six policies within six weeks of the murder. She bought five new policies. And they were like, that's nothing the cops need to know about, right? Are you fucking kidding me?

Gary moved in days after the disappearance. They didn't even know he was dead. Just a disappearance. She sold off as many of her husband's belongings and assets as she could. I mean, all that kind of shit here um so the the denver police said this isn't a case of 2020 hindsight piecing a murder together six years later this is you know so weeks later she collected all this money and now she's refusing to testify in this lawsuit filed by the children these are her fucking children wow there for 40 years what does it matter what do you care yeah and uh she said both convictions are being appealed so she

doesn't she's not gonna you know participate in this just holding out hope she'll get out his children are suing the insurance companies for four hundred thousand dollars paid to Sharon. And, uh, yeah, anyway, so they, um, Sharon ends up appealing her case. Okay. Her argument lies most heavily on her fear of Gary Adams. She said that upon hearing, she said that she was so afraid of Gary that she was scared to stand trial

because she was afraid that Gary would, would have her killed while she was at trial on trial. So she couldn't stand trial. She claimed that Gary conveyed a threat to her in prison when a food server in the prison cafeteria passed his thumb across his throat as if slicing it and said, you know who that's from. And he said that Gary also told her that before they were arrested, if I ever go down on this, you're going down with me.

So if you're going to testify against me, you're going down. So anyway, they said that he said that he had strong motivation. She said he had strong motivation to get me and all that. So that's an appeal that she has. She got she got forced into pleading guilty because she was afraid of Gary. She got forced into pleading guilty because she was afraid of Gary. The court found that the evidence presented was more consistent with the conclusion that she had changed her mind about the wisdom of pleading guilty than with the conclusion that the plea was involuntary. That's what they said.

They said that, first of all, they didn't seek the death penalty against her, and she knew this when she pleaded guilty. In the plea hearing, the judge asked her, do you understand that if you enter a plea of guilty, you're subjecting yourself to a lifetime term of imprisonment? And she said, yes, I do. Thus, she claims she pleaded guilty out of fear

of the death penalty is not credible. She also said that. They said also, she had pleaded guilty to avoid such a penalty. Such a decision is considered voluntary

and it's considered your strategy. You want to die or go to prison? Which one? So, yeah, you're up on murder charges. You got a lot of hard fucking choices here. So she also said as her fear of her fear of facing a murder trial trials in her appeal, she suggested the stress she was under at the time she pled guilty was so great.

It coerced her into pleading guilty. They said the possibility of facing a murder trial undoubtedly creates stress. This stress is by its nature coercive and likely to make a defendant consider the option of pleading guilty rather than enduring a painful trial. Such coercion, however, does not necessarily render a plea involuntary. No, it's called life and why people do shit. Wow. involuntary no it's called life and why people do shit wow so her last two arguments rely on her alleged fear for herself and her children at the at the hands of gary adams she said that uh he was gonna you know she implicated him and then he was gonna have her children killed and her

killed and all this type of shit so that's that's she said. So they said, because of the majority of Ms. Nelson's proffered evidence in support of her motion to change the plea came from her own testimony, her credibility is a factor we consider because this is all shit that she said. I was scared because he told me he'd kill me.

Well, he didn't tell anyone else that. So, you know, this is just shit you're saying that's also very self-serving to you. So they said, based on factual findings of the state court and our own review of the record we find ms nelson's guilty plea was entered knowingly involuntarily and affirm the judgment and she can fuck right off so currently um she's born in 1945 so she would be 77 years old at this point i cannot find her in this other site that was talking about her no one can find her in any prison system really and she'd definitely still

be in prison because she's her 40 isn't up yet so she probably died in prison is what we can imagine she was like she was like a two and a half pack a day smoker back in her younger days so that was up through her 40s so i mean who knows, who knows? Who knows what happened to her? So either way, she's probably dead. We're not sure. And I found a very, if you're in the Cincinnati metropolitan area and you're looking for a nurse,

I guess, an RN, IRB ethics, regulatory compliance expertise, you should hire Sharon Lynn Nelson because if you search for this murderer she's who comes up so this poor lady i feel bad for she went to the university of cincinnati hire her i think she'll be wonderful for you yeah she'll be fantastic for what you're doing so anyway that is trinidad colorado and one crazy fucking thing if in a marriage at the end of it one of you is legally declared dead and the other's legally declared a whore it's not a good marriage right

that's the moral of this story i feel like it was a secret sauce or special sauce secret sauce was it secret or special damn it now i don't remember it's so gross i think it was special like mcdonald's it wasn't secret it was special i think it was special, like McDonald's. It wasn't secret. It was special. I think it was secret. Was it? It might have been. Oh, God, I'm grossed out by that. I hate it so much. It ain't good, man.

So that is that. That is disgusting. And if you like the show and you want to taste the secret sauce, I suppose, tell the world about it. Get on app. Tell everyone on whatever app you're listening to. Give us five stars and say they have the best secret sauce in the podcast about it. Get on app. Tell everyone on whatever app you're listening to. Give us five stars and say they have the best secret sauce in the podcasting industry. I want to see all those comments. That is fucked. That would be hilarious.

Please do the best. And their secret sauce. Whatever your comment is, just put secret sauce in there. So everyone who reads them would be like, why is everyone saying secret sauce? This is so weird. I just want that. So please, listeners, do that. Cleverly get secret sauce all over iTunes.

Do it. These guys just have the – there's a secret sauce to what they do, and I don't know what it is. Find different ways to do it, but you can do whatever app you're listening on. So five stars and do that. Thank you. Follow us on social media. We are at Murdersmall on Twitter, at SmalltownPod on Facebook, at SmalltownMurder on Twitter at small town pod on Facebook at small town murder on Instagram,

head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get everything. Your merchandise. There's tons of new stuff up there. All sorts of cool shit. In addition to tickets to live shows, the two, we really want you to look at new Orleans,

July 15th. Go there. Cause we don't, we're going, it's really hot. Make sure this place is full and we're going to have a good time. And then in a, what is at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Let's sell this bad boy out.

Don't let Chicago punk you. Chicago and Boston are our biggest shows at this point that we've had, and Minneapolis. Don't you want to beat Chicago and Minneapolis? Jesus Christ. You're beating the Bears and the Vikings. Isn't that great? And the Patriots

because you're going to beat Boston too. If you guys sell this out, this will be our biggest show that we've ever had and we will tell everyone from now on who asks,

because people always ask, what's the biggest crowd you ever had? Fucking Milwaukee because they kick ass. That's what we're going to say. We sold out the Pabst. It's crazy.

And it's a different show than we're going to do in Chicago too. We promise that. And thank you guys for being's a different show than we're going to do in Chicago, too. We promise that. And thank you guys for being such a rad audience. You guys are the best, and I love seeing you guys on the road. So come to Milwaukee, and come to New Orleans, and we will see you there. And come to all the different

places as well, and listen to Crime and Sports as well. If you have not listened to Crime and Sports yet, try it this week, because it's Chris Benoit, and we know you know what he did. We find some weird stuff in there so check that out and patreon.com slash crime and sports let's say you listen to crime and sports let's say you listen to

small town murder let's say you listen to small town murder express every Friday yeah do you need more you want more you still need more well you need more we got more we got patreon patreon.com slash crime and sports every other week you are going to get two brand new shows so you get about four shows a month and uh they're good shit we put on a hell

of a patreon show this week what you're going to get by the way you get the whole back catalog there's over 100 episodes on there there's a lot to hear this week what we're going to talk about is and you get access to crime and sports and small town murders bonus you get it all right so for crime and sports we're going to talk about kind of an add-on to Chris Benoit. We're going to talk about an insane wrestler named Billy Jack Haynes who did this long, two-hour-long interview all about a conspiracy theory about what actually happened at Chris Benoit's house. And it is bonkers and it involves Vince McMahon. It's crazy. So we'll hear about that.

And then on small town murders bonus we are going to talk about a terrible man he was a high ranking i believe air force officer very high ranking like he flew the queen he was the guy who flew the queen over in canada and not their queen not canada queen that's england but she came to canada because it's in english whatever anyway so he's a big shot and he ended up being like the canadian btk killer he did all sorts of terrible shit breaking into women's houses torturing them holding them for days and taking weird fucking pictures just like btk all sorts of weird shit we'll touch on that but we're really going to talk about is the interrogation that broke him because he went in like i am the

i am king shit of fuck mountain and in an hour and a half later he was like let me tell you where the bodies are where's a map like it's crazy how do you how you just broke a man like that it's fucking amazing we'll talk all about that it's so cool patreon.com it's a master class in interrogation it really is patreon i miss my mom fuck patreon.com slash It's a master class in interrogation. It really is. From I'm a pilot to I miss my mom. Fuck. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get that. And as well, if you want to just donate on PayPal and also get your shout out, which is coming up in a second, you can do that. We are.

Go to PayPal and use our email address. Crime and Sports at Gmail dot com. You'll still get your shout out. That says Jimmy. Yeah. Hit me with the list of people who would never ever ever legally be declared whores jimmy hit me with them now this week's executive producers are brianna vandemark uh rabinowitz rabinowitz rabinowitz it's a law form

james oh yes seymour schmuckstein jordan bennett all in the family rabinowitz rabinowitz and rabinowitz maybe i don't know get me old man rabinowitz why he'sowitz, and Rabinowitz? Maybe, I don't know. Get me old man Rabinowitz. Why? He's the most Jewish. That's the joke. There's a lot of them. I think that's the thing. Sorry, go ahead. Adam Hill, thank you, buddy. He donated twice. Rather large.

Appreciate you, Adam. Carol Braun, still around. Thank you, Carol. Appreciate you sticking with us. And always a pleasure to see your name. Peyton Meadows, Maude Findlay, Erwin Lopez. Erwin is a big Avs fan, and I don't know if you know james they just won the stanley cup this uh a couple weeks ago congratulations abs yeah they fucked it up before they were even off the ice oh yeah he messed it up drop the damn

cup put a giant dent in the fucking thing did you see the bottom of the cave right yeah they gotta fix that shit every year though though. You know, they got a cup guy. It's pretty awesome. Happy Hour checking in, Butler PA. The Whore in 2R is around. Oh, Rossi. Brittany Voyette. Frank, the South African bird washer. Janice Hill.

Molly Weslowski, happy birthday. Weslowski. Casey Handel, happy birthday. And also Peter Stone. Happy birthday. More producers weselowski casey handle happy birthday and also peter stone happy birthday to all of you more producers are lauren suza eric conley jessica jones gideon townsend lisa wright gage kaufman brand nope that's barbara barbara babsey daryl morissette alanis's kid uh clan mccauley dan dreon nicole dempsey mckegan mckeagan, McKagan, McKagan, McKagan, McKagan, McKagan, Kelsey Van Horn, Aaron Ford, Jetty, Jetty Guy, Pickety Stitch.

Life is so creative, like selling. Do you get it? That's what it is. Ed Becker, Greta, Greta with no last name, Kevin Shook, Janice Ferguson, Aaron Cook, Haley, one of a billion Americans. Is there a billion? There's not a billion, right? No, about a third of that.

Yeah, we're close, though. Keep going. 330. Deb Mayfield, Cleet Stone, Sarah and D.B. Barrett, Zane 015, Amy Eisenhunt, Libby Hudson, Fiona Lark, Terrence P., Frank Delatore, Uncle Jeezy, Jenna Palmer, Sarah Pazek, DJ with no last name, Amy Holleran, Megan Murs, Bailey with no last name, Taylor Adamek, Christina Hively, Harley Dakota Norris in Louisiana, I believe, Harley Dakota Norris in Louisiana, I believe. Candice with no last name. Chris Moore.

C.W. with no last name. C and W. Those are the first and last name initials. That's what it is. Angelina. Those things. Angelina Colley. Keely Patton. Kurt Shitload of Dimes.

Smith. Jake Larson. Ryan Harrison. I'm going to have to go back and get a shitload of dimes. Johnny Leffler. Joshua Wilber. Evan Jape. Or Jape.

Jape. Craig Boggs. Oh, boy, Patrick Hennessey, Amanda Swift, Spencer Parker, Houston Crosley, Scott Bingen, Kara Kings, Klingle Smith, Shannon Hancock, Foster the Llama, Justin W., Katie Molenhoff? Nick Haseltine? Tasha Volk? They said llama fans. That's nice. Llamas are good animals. Yeah, they're cool. Liz Jones? Dory Dyer? Indigu?

Aaron Barbie? Damian Lebeck? M.G. Marzullo? Marzullo. Jan Bartholomew? Nancy? Nancy Legos? Cassie Holiday?

Holiday? Aaron Bens Saul, Brian. Fucking what is this? Bjorn Bonnie, Pat, Patty Tamble. Casey would know last name. I, a sugar, a sugar. I don't know. Brett Pigsley, Julia White, Marty for a Chuck.

Jana Sweet, Cece Burns. Brianna would know last name. TJ Hughes. Cody would know last name. Sherry Ziegler. Kyle Jones, Jennifer Green, Simi Bibi, Gabby Sutton Vermulion, what, Jack, oh boy, Ocho Grosso, Andrea Elizabeth Karganin, Phaedra Corey, I think, Katie Conklin, Del Hayes, Cheer Up Bitch,

I know that one, Kim Heskey, Sabrina Dunn, Mitchell Bollinger, Bobby Slingsby, Sam Mitchell, JC Ray. Oh, she's an RN. JC could be a dude. I don't know. I'm not going to assume. Martina Swaby, Lindsay Chappone, Scott Bowes. Bowes, I think.

Jane DeClercq, Patrick Carver, Hunter with no last name, Quinn Locke, Kelly Jordan, Michael Durr, Chris Hamm, Noah Turnage, Natalie Stadelman, Mary Tim, Derek Levine, I think, Michelle Woff, Maria Dieter, Doll Mom Kimberly, Renzel, I think, Laura Scherbler, Schuber, Mary Claire Coyne, Jenna, the names are brutal, Jenna McGarahan, Avon McMurgan, StarvinMarvin420, Michael, no, Michelle, Michelle Higginbottom, Brian Allen, Amy with no last name, Brandon with no last name, Sarah Pals. Jolly Ollie. Joy Jolly. Obi Wan.

Josiah Braden. Alexandra Barbu. Candy Kenny. Ellen Smolenski. Hugh Cox and all of our patrons. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much, everybody. So, so much. From the bottom of our hearts, we cannot thank you enough for all that you do for us and just everything.

Thank you for your money. Thank you for your time. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank you for all of you do for us and just everything. Thank you for your money. Thank you for your time. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank you for all of it. We really do appreciate it. If you want to find us on social media individually, very easy to do that. Go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Links all over that bitch over there. You can find us

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