Small Town Murder - #301 - STM Express - Intentional Accidents - Brownington, Vermont

Episode Date: July 22, 2022

This week, in Brownington, Vermont, the couple behind a very odd, and seriously hilarious, public access tv show, in northern Vermont suffer a terrible tragedy, when an awful accident kills one of the pair. It seems to be just plain bad luck, until an OK Cupid online dating hookup sees some strange personal habits, and hears some very weird things, from the widow, including a story that makes them go straight to the police. A ridiculous sting operation takes place, eventually catching an audio recording of the admission of guilt. But will that be enough to convict someone of such a bizarre crime? Along the way, we find out that apples & cheese go together, that public access television is always the worst, and that nothing is more unattractive than "a bucket of wriggling peckers"!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and choo-choo. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. All aboard the murder train, everyone. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host.

I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. We have a wild, wild episode for you. Very quickly off the top here before we get started. Thank you for everything. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of your tickets. San Francisco in August. Come we're at Cobbs comedy club.

I think it's so great. August 12th. I want to say 12th, 13th of Sacramento. And then also September 10th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Let's do this. Let's sell out the Pabst where our, we're on a mission. Everybody.

This will be our biggest show ever. If you guys do this. So beat Chicago, beat Minneapolis and be the biggest show we've ever had, everybody. Let's do this. We can't wait. So get your tickets there. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of the bonus stuff.

You get access to everything. Anybody $5 or above, you're going to get access to the Crime and Sports bonus, the Small Town Murder bonus. You're going to get four episodes a month at least oh yeah it's good stuff here we go sometimes six this week what you're going to get is for crime and sports we're going to talk about john rocker who is a just one of the most hateable people ever he's just his whole his whole life is just being a complete jackass and we're going to talk about him. Almost on purpose. Oh, my God.

That's what it feels like. So we'll talk all about him. It's just a wild guy. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about a case that I've gotten sent to me repeatedly since the first week we did the show. It's the most wanted case ever. Other people have covered it, but like we do, we'll do it a little bit differently. It's in Skidmore, Missouri, and it's a case of a guy that everyone hated in the whole town he's murdered in the town in front of dozens of witnesses and no one will say a thing because

they all hate him so much and these are like upstanding people he didn't get this isn't a gambino family barbecue or anything like that like i don't know what happened a guy just i looked this way he was on the ground that's not what don't know what happened to the guy. I looked this way. He was on the ground. I was in the bathroom. That's not what happened. I was in the bedroom. I don't know what you mean. That's not what happened.

This is crazy. It's a wild story. We'll talk about all of that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And, of course, you'll get a shout-out on the end of the regular show. Oh, yeah. Where Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly. So let's do this, I'd say.

Let's sit back, Jimmy. Clear the lungs. What do you say? Wherever you are in your car, in your kitchen, hopefully not in too public of a place to scare people. But sit back, clear the lungs and shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. What? Take a ride.

Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We are going all the way up to the severe northeast, as I like to call it here, and we are going to Vermont. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vermont's a weird place we've talked about. Fuck is it beautiful.

It's a gorgeous place, but it is- Unbelievable. Weird. It's a very, very strange, odd- If you can picture, take a hillbilly and then make him a hippie and then soak him in maple syrup and you have a Vermont resident. Especially the very northern parts of Vermont. It's a different kind of place up there. Put some flip flops on that hillbilly. Yeah, put some Birkenstocks on your hillbilly.

Yeah, that's how it works. And have that hillbilly selling art for some some Birkenstocks on your hillbilly. Clean ones, yeah. Yeah, that's how it works. And have that hillbilly selling art for some reason. Yeah. Like, what's going on? Nice teeth. This is Brownington, Vermont. It is north, north, north Vermont, up near the Canadian border up there. Oh, boy.

Way up there. So this is out there. Population, 955 people in this little town. Median income and home prices are pretty normal. They kind of go together. Median income is about $43,000 a year, which is lower than the national average. But median home cost is only $165,000. Is it?

Yeah. My God. It's cheap up there. Is that affordable up there? I guess. If you're making $42,000, I guess you can afford a $164,000 house. It seems about right. It's not like were you know the rest of the country's cost it'd be way worse so history not a lot of this town it was named after the brown family well

there you go um yeah two uh the two of these people were daniel and timothy brown there was a bunch of other browns there was like eight like eight people named Brown, so they named the town Brownington. That's that. That's the history of the town. There's not a lot going on. Review of this town. This is fun here. One review of the town, and it's a good one.

Two stars. I grew up in this town, and it was awesome. Just awesome. It was. I will always be grateful for the fun and exciting childhood I had. Oh. Okay. That's the positive.

All right. Now. But. But. And then the next sentence starts, but. Yeah. But around the age of 14, you will start to realize how terrible the town is. People have no motivation to take care of themselves or their property every other house

has junk in the front yard scrap cars broken equipment and literal garbage yeah as a kid that's a fucking playground yeah you don't care yeah it's a drunk car you can like shoot bb's at sounds awesome slide across the hood and nobody gives a shit boys bitches yeah slide across the hood um let's see uh the roads are awful don't bother buying a new car if you live here because it won't last a year jesus a year a new car just break it into pieces that's amazing well my new car the wheel fell off it was new and uh just wheel done fell off when your roads can erode a car, a brand new car in a year. Worse than Michigan, they should have said. Makes Michigan roads look great.

There's Amish families in town now, which is interesting, but they are good neighbors and possibly the best part of the town. I said, well, they don't leave junk cars out in their yard, you know that much for a fact. Or equipment. When their car's dead, they shoot it. They shoot it, need it, probably, I would assume. I don't leave junk cars out in their yard, you know that much for a fact. Or equipment. When their car's dead, they shoot it and bury it.

They shoot it and eat it, probably, I would assume. I don't know. Hopefully it's made offspring by then. We don't know. Oh, my God. I sincerely hope anyone living in this town has an opportunity to visit another country or state at least. Wow. Don't die here.

That way they can see how far back in time the town is. Okay. Unreal. The town is stuck in the 60s, and if you think that's a good thing, then you are a moron. They're not done? I'm telling you, hippie hillbillies, it's the weirdest place. If you insist on living in Vermont. He's still going. It's the weirdest place. If you insist on living in Vermont, if you insist on living in Vermont, I insist.

That's hilarious. If you insist on living in Vermont, there are other towns just as desolate with similar cost of living that are not this backwards. Try any other town. Just as desolate. Just as desolate. Similarly cheap. Not as backwards. that's it that's the review two stars that's the longest two-star review i've ever heard and for two stars that i guess they got the two stars for the for the up to age 14 for the good childhood and then after that that's the rest of their life you know it's broken down into fifths seven years this person's 35 years old i guarantee you

sweat across any hood no matter what's in your pocket doesn't matter that's the only good thing here the only good thing you can't damage any of the cars things to do quickly not a lot uh the old stone house museum and historic village it opened in there opened in 1925 it's a featured stop on vermont's african-american heritage trail the museum tells the story of alexander lucius twilight he was the first african-american college graduate and state legislator in the united states And he built the old stone house. So there you go. So that's what they do. There's 30 rooms in this museum and 75,000 objects,

furnitures and paintings. It's cool. It's from back then. There's a, there is a, I don't know what this is here, but there is a, it says always popular phantom baby portrait on the top floor.

I don't like that. Couldn't find anything on it. Allison couldn't find anything on it. We the top floor. I don't like that. Couldn't find anything on it. Allison couldn't find anything on it. We don't know. Don't understand there. Then there is the Alexander Twilight Day Apple and Cheese Festival. Awesome. So this guy went through God knows what to be the first black dude to fucking graduate from college and be, what was it, legislature?

Yeah. Be in the legislature. And they're like, let's celebrate him with apples apples and cheese it's a very strange way to do it um but they do i mean vermont cheddar and there's a lot of apples grown up there so i guess it's just uh local heritage stuff that's what it apparently this is the first year that they've come together the alexander twilight day and the apple and cheese festival joined forces together so this is good we were just talking about how double the yeah let's do it it's you gotta you gotta double

them up synergy baby synergy yeah we'll mix these together you eat some cheese you think about this guy you look at some pictures this is good last week you wanted all three of those other festivals together this week they actually did it they did it that's what i mean we said that yeah the ribs and beer and cheese should all go together this this apple's cheese for some reason your advice god damn it somebody did good you know what thank you vermont finally somebody's listening slam all the vermont in one day it's great we say so many so much and people just don't they don't act so nobody takes our advice they all take us for boneheads that's right that said let's talk about a murder and a goddamn weird one at that let's get into this jimmy okay we'll go back to 2009

for this murder so not very far this is oh james this is ballsy this is oh yeah we're texting we're we're you know people there's social media people are on facebook this is uh yeah post facebook pre-instagram is where we are right now so so anyway 2009 talk about two people first here this is charlie and christine billis okay b-i-l-l-i-s um charlie charles is his name he's 57 christine is 42 um and they uh charlie is legally blind he's not like you know blind blind like can't see anything but he's legally blind in terms of thickest glasses on earth he doesn't wear glasses actually from what I saw

not in the things that I saw he's got he walks with a cane he's clearly got some movement issues that sort of deal so but I mean he gets like disability and he can't drive he's legally blind like that so they also have uh daughters here christine has three daughters um there there's a grown daughter who isn't living at home and then a 14 year old and a

nine year old who are in the house six um oh there's okay that's the three that's three yeah yeah so yeah those are then there's another three that's what you heard i said there's, okay, that's the three. That's three, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, those are, then there's another three. That's what you heard. I said there's three, described them, and you were like, three more? Three plus three is six. So, in 2004, Charlie and Chrissy, as she likes to be called, they moved from Boston, that's where they were living, up to northern you know bumfuck vermont out here yeah so they uh that's with their daughter that's the the youngest that's theirs together and then the her her daughter from a previous marriage was the 14 year old okay so they um they apparently

they were they had a good sense of humor and you can tell this with each other because as we'll talk about they they did public access TV shows. So you can see their dynamic together. And even later on. They hosted it? Yeah, yeah. And then later on, he does a show with somebody else, and she's the one filming it. She's the camera operator, and you can hear her laughing when he makes jokes and stuff.

So they like each other. Well, that's what it so they like each other well that's what it would seem like yeah that's what it looks like and uh so charlie i guess he had impaired vision since he was a child and it's just gotten worse so he's always had an eye problem so chrissy helps him out a lot she has to drive him places and shit like that he used to be a used car salesman oh and he's got that kind of he's got a quick sense of humor. You know what I mean? I mean, he's like, you know, like a dad joke. A quick joke.

Dad joke, funny, but still like, you know, for an older guy, he's quippy. He's fun. Yeah, he's good with people. He's very good with people. He can make friends with somebody very quickly. And Chrissy would take care of the home and take care of the family. They don't have a lot of money at all here by now. He's not working as a used car salesman anymore.

And money is very, very tight. So they move in 2004 when they get here. Charlie starts making a public access TV show about six months after moving up here. About what? I guess to introduce, introduce hi i'm new here where's everybody a lot of money so i'm gonna spend what i have on putting together a fucking show where would one go for a good chicken tender anybody just uh you can email the show and let us know if uh where's a good chicken tender so after a little while, Chrissy joins him on the show.

Okay. This is 2005. The show is called Open Forum. And it's basically them in like living room chairs. They're talking. And on the show, they would interview, quote, anyone they found interesting. You're saying it's a show about nothing? It's a show about nothing.

But they just bring on other people who nobody gives a shit about because they're willing to do public access interviews which means they don't have a lot going on and they talk to them about shit it's just like nothing here's a bunch of people no one wants to hear from and there's a channel that's on just there you go like you just put a camera and some people who you don't care about living room yeah he's looking for this, but here it is. That's exactly it. Nobody wants this. No one certainly asked for it, but here it is.

We gave it to you. We're giving it anyway. The show ran five years, almost. Wow. They were doing this show. She was the editor of the show. She didn't like the whole on-screen thing as much as he did. He's a ham, and he likes to be on camera she's more

doesn't really want to be on camera uh but she did it with him on open forum anyway didn't do it with him on the show but you know what i mean the show is about these two people fucking right and then when they was done they'd be smoking a cigarette and they'd invite somebody on it was a little awkward because they were nude on the floor and they'd like be in a chair between them it was kind of weird but you know they did it anyway it was fun so um they did all this this was uh basically this is a good way for them to have something to do get out of the house um charlie charlie is he's like one of these kind of like it reminds me like one of these stand-up comics that we know where you look at them and you go jesus that's terrible and then they're like you know i'm gonna make it and they're like they're dead serious of like you know i mean i think i can i'm gonna get on

i'm gonna do it really i'm i'm gonna record a youtube thing and i think that's gonna get me to where i want to be and you're like no you're not good though that's the first part you missed that's what char part you missed that's what charlie reminds me of because he thinks that he wants to take this show eventually to regular tv he's going to be able to sell to be on the network he's going to sell this show of a 50 something year old man sitting there talking to people on a fucking chair basically like instead of a talk show it'll be me and that'll be the show rather than having talented people do it here i am yeah so christy just thought it was a hobby she thought

it was fun i think they got a better chance of selling this to anybody if it's actually them fucking in front of people someone will watch that at least i don't know for them you know em with apostrophe open forum or open forum anyone can come join in if they want open forum our here's our winner this week and they just come and start humping on whatever they want i don't know how it works we don't know that's a show now that's a show i'd be intrigued who's coming on this week that'll be that's intriguing that's something that's a show so um but after a while they're working on the show they're spending a lot of time on the show they're not making money on this show but this is like

they're spending it yeah this is exactly like we were talking about comics that yeah comics after a while you're with the audience you're like you have something in common with the audience and that's comedy is costing both of you money. That's what that is. Comics that look down on the audience like they're worse than them. Yeah. It's costing both of you money, dude. Yeah. You're both paying to do this.

Jesus Christ. So he spent a ton of time working on the show, and then she would have to edit the episodes and then also have to run the house and take care of the kids and do all that kind of shit she wanted charlie to focus more on making some money hey you're in your 50s we have a kid you know we're raising two children here let's make money what are we talking about this public access this isn't working there's already a show about nothing and the guy's a billionaire so so I think that market's tapped out. And he said, no, this is the thing. I feel it in my bones.

When he focused my energy on this TV show, we'll live off my disability checks. Oh, man. That's a tough way to go. That is a tough road. Four days a week, he was doing open forum. They'd go interview people in different places and shit like that. Sometimes he'd leave Chrissy at home. And, you know, it was tough.

Her daughter, the 14-year-old, said money was tight and that was always kind of a stressor. Charlie's betting on Charlie. Charlie is betting on Charlie. So 2009 comes around and Chrissy is diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Oh, fuck. Yeah. That's that's now it's serious. Now it's OK.

You know, we got to focus on. We got way bigger expenditures than open forum. Yeah, this is. We got to trim things. Crazy. She has to undergo a full hysterectomy. But then she's I guess the cancer is OK after that she's they get they get all the cancer i suppose here um she decided to quit smoking at this point too which is probably

smart if you have another kind of cancer and she tried she went on a some drug for to stop smoking one of those there's a bunch of those i don't know what shantix or something one of those yeah but i guess she couldn't sleep which is always one of the side effects probably well butre drugs and um so uh charlie while all this is going on he's taking on more shit uh public access wise he's making more commitments to himself there's a guy named steve merrill who's hosting who's going to start a new show uh and he said well I'd love to be your co-host and magic was born Jimmy this show this shows there's the one episode we'll talk about it's on YouTube and the whole episode it's an hour long and it is fantastic I recommend watching the entire thing

it's called it's news to us and if you look up Charlie Billis' It's News to Us, you'll find it on YouTube, and it's amazing. I can't wait. Incredible. September 2009, it premieres, and this is N-E-K-T-V in northern Vermont. NEC-IT? NEC-IT, or NEC-TV.

NEC-TIV. NEC-TIV nective nective almost though oh there's a v v tv oh n e k tv oh god yeah n e k is the station naked tv naked tv we're naked in the woods up here so they had a show on there and um the the purpose of the show was to focus on stories that don't make the national news. It's called It's News to Us is the name of the show that Charlie and the Steve Merrill do. And it's taped in a studio in Newport, Vermont. It's got a green screen behind him. Okay, that's the great part. It's got a green screen.

Now, the episode on YouTube, it is their second episode. So I don't know if the guy doesn't realize that you can't wear certain colors when you're sitting in front of a green screen yeah because here's the i'll set the scene okay fucking stage left is charlie okay he's on our right stage left he is sitting there he's in the chair with a table in front of him and he's got his hand on the cane off to the side like he's about to make a run for it which is a strange thing then steve the guy who's like the main host here he is wearing a shirt that makes him completely disappear so he's wearing a green shirt he there's

behind them is a close the whole screen behind them is close-ups of bees in a hive doing things. So the bees are bigger than them on the screen, right? They're these giant bees. So he is just a head with hands, right? This man, he's a floating head, and then he's got two floating hands that hold up a newspaper. Every once in a while, the bees will crawl into the perfect spot to where his head looks like it's on a bee's body and it's phenomenal it's the greatest thing ever it's so fucking funny and he has no idea this is happening i don't think he does because it's only the second episode so i think he just doesn't realize it and that it's going on so anyway on the show they're basically

have a local newspaper and they're just re it's two it's two old older guys sitting in a coffee shop gossiping about what's going around in the town. And someone decided to film this. And wow, the videographer or the camera operator is Christine. She's the one filming everything crazy. So this I can't recommend this show enough to you. At one point, at one point, they Jesus Christ, at one point, they're talking about a guy who like attacked a robber with a samurai sword or some shit like that. admire the guy i mean he's going you know he's going old i like that it's none of this you know shooting at people he's got a sword and he's like i'll show you something i'll chop them up like a fillet that's all and he's making these like samurai sword jokes and they're all i don't know they're not funny but they're like these dark jokes that are you know whatever i admire where

he's going you know i like it he's exploring and you hear christine laughing behind you hear a woman's laugh behind the camera and trust me she's probably i assume the only woman within five miles of this fucking project so it's got to be her you know what i mean this isn't there's not a lot of chicks hanging around waiting to get a glimpse of these two if you know what i'm saying we're not gonna watch this we're not gonna watch it no we can't watch it but it's we don't have time to watch it but other people out there will watch it oh you'll definitely watch it when we're done everyone out there should watch this absolutely it's fucking crazy man so the uh all of this is going on i guess they said that she was the producer the editor the camera operator she was the all the behind the camera stuff now the camera

by the way operate it's just a status steady static camera you set it up and you walk away it's not like she has to fucking one woman production team yeah one woman production team um steve said quote it was fun to be able to play intellectual handball with someone like that charlie had a very twisted sense of humor and had done a lot of strange things so it was just a riot okay so meanwhile the their bills are stacking up there's medical bills and all this shit there's a lot going on and charlie chrissy didn't think that charlie was taking it too seriously her daughter said quote my parents uh did have a pretty stressful relationship with each other and i think it was just a lot of mom being overwhelmed

by everything that was happening to her which i mean if you have to have if you have cancer and you have to get half of your insides ripped out because of it you know that's gonna you're gonna yeah intense that's a lot that's a lot to deal with man that really is charlie though kept making the shows uh wanted to make the shows but um she was gonna if she if they they were going to do it, she was going to do it with him. At least they would be together because otherwise he's gone the whole time. She's at home. You know, it's boring. So she said maybe that'll reignite the whole deal here.

So in 2009, September 22nd, that's the episode we're talking about. That's the one she's behind the camera for the second episode of It's News to Me. talking about that's the one she's behind the camera uh for the second episode of it's news to me yeah steve merrill said that day while taping the show nothing seemed out of the ordinary to me we were getting together uh we were getting laughter from charlie's wife chrissy it was a good day we were having fun so that's their audience so she's laughing they feel like they're killing it's awesome they're doing great you know what i mean so chrissy would drive charlie the 30 minutes to and from the studio there. Their house is in Brownington.

That's where they live. And 3.30 that day, they do the show. Like we said, it's a terrible disaster, and it's hilarious. Wonderful. It's everything that public access should be. Like technically inept, not very poorly planned, people thinking too much of their own opinions. It's everything that you want out of public access. So they're driving home, just normal deal.

Then out of nowhere, they headfirst slam into a giant pine tree. Oh, my God. Yeah. Pow. I, my God. Yeah. Pow. I mean, out of nowhere. Just boom. Into a pine tree. Chrissy has her seatbelt on.

She's dazed and has minor injuries, but she's okay. She's the one driving. Yeah, Charlie's legally blind. If Charlie was driving, this would be understandable. Makes much more sense. That would make a lot of sense. That I would get. It's like I thought it was the road.

Charlie, on the other hand, is not wearing a seatbelt. Oh, no. When they hit this tree. His legs are crushed in the car. They need the jaws of life to get him out. He is trapped in the car where she can get out of the car. Christy's pulled out of the car by onlookers. She's like, okay, she can walk around.

She's dazed, obviously. Charlie, though, is just he's crushed in there. He's freed by the emergency responders with the jaws of life. They're both taken to the ER. Chrissy is cleared of medical. She's OK. But once they find out Chrissy's OK, they also find out they're told that charlie died oh no charlie died yeah he uh apparently there was a tear in his aorta from the impact of something

and yeah it killed him so internal injuries like that wow that's a hard impact that's a huge yeah i mean it's a fucking head-on into a tree with no skid marks, nothing. I mean, it was like the tree was the road. It was insane. Their daughter said it was really overwhelming just to hear that your dad didn't make it. And it was so probably the biggest heartbreak of my life, I'd have to say for sure. Yeah, Jesus, that's understandable. Poor girl. Poor girl.

So the Vermont State Police arrived to investigate. There's a fatal crash so they always investigate um there's nothing on the road that would have made her swerve there's not like or anything no debris there's no there wasn't a cow there or anything there's no skid marks even um it's the only tree along that stretch of road and over a mile in either direction in northern fucking vermont yes amazing on that stretch of road and over a mile in either direction in northern fucking vermont yes amazing on that stretch of road that on the side of the road there is one tree for a mile in either direction and that's the tree that they hit so they do the initial deal uh they they figure out that she's traveling south on vermont route 5a when it hit the large pine tree near the intersection of line farm road it it occurred during the day completely clear blue skies dry road no cow doesn't make any sense speed is not a factor going around the speed

limit um they said maybe the their only thought is maybe chrissy had some sort of medical you know Their only thought is maybe Chrissy had some sort of medical episode while it happened. Some sort of blackout, something with medication from this, something with her illness. Seizure, anything. It's the only thing they could think of. Like maybe she blacked out, whatever. Now, the Pamela Helenick, this happened in her front yard. So, yeah.

She says, quote, I went over to get the mail because you usually do. There you go. We don't need an explanation of why you went to get the mail. I went to get the mail. Well, that's suspicious. Why'd you do that? What are you getting the mail for, old lady? What do you got there?

What do you got to hide, Pamela Hellenic? I don't believe you. Because you usually do. As you do. I ate dinner that night, as I'm wont to do from occasion to occasion. It's fine. We got it. You know, to be able to have my functions of my body work and all my major organs keep from shutting down. Things like that.

She said, I went and looked at the hole again and thought about how that poor man died. It sounded like dynamite going off. Yeah, a car at full speed hitting a fucking pine tree head on. It's going to be loud. She said that they were sitting down for dinner when they heard the crash. She said, I had no idea what happened, but when I looked toward the window, you could see dust everywhere. That's when we came out and saw the car over there. Those are the people that pulled Christine out of the fucking rubble here.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor.

I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing this mother lied like a liar like a liar and if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in into our podcast morbid,

follow morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and add free by joining Wondery plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. The next day, Christie is cleared from the hospital to go home. They wanted to keep her overnight for observations. She's questioned by a state trooper about the crash as any other fatality accident would be. She told the officers that

she wasn't that she was on. Yes, I'm on anti-smoking drugs. I'm also on antidepressants and the night before I had to take sleeping pills to go to sleep because I'm on these smoking drugs. So, you know, that's what might have been in my system. So they

said maybe the combination of those three things with fatigue and this and that maybe she blacked out for a minute passed out and didn't realize it you know just nodded off or something um christy everybody by the way everybody loved charlie in the community he was not he wasn't like uh you know we were making fun of his public access show because it's a public access show but he's a real he's a real nice guy that personable dude that people like i mean period that's it there's nothing else to say about it um his co-host steve said i miss him terribly he was a great guy a lot of fun and really smart um but the show must go on eight days later steve replaced charlie with a new co-host wow eight days steve if you died what am i eight next week

hey we're back again here's this guy instead you're dead what the fuck am i gonna do if i died you're gonna say hey welcome to small town murder i'm gonna tell you a story now it's like that's crazy you're dead you're dead i might do the i might do the express and just be like i'll just read headlines of murder well that sounds gross right all right check it out next one that could be good though i'd listen that's all i got i'll do the green screen and i'll be the fucking head of a bee that's what we do a bed of a bee you can you can superimpose me in there i give you permission just put my my picture in there i'll put your head on a b there you go put my head on a b sitting next to you and look over to me for

comment if you want once in a while james nothing all right fucking guy you know call him the best color man in the business for nothing folks give me the old major league line they'd put you in a fucking institution in three episodes i think this guy's losing his mind so yeah i'd be sitting here no i'd be someone else imagine me sitting here with someone else i'd be like eight days later how do you think that that's not funny you fucking idiot that's hilarious what i just read to you laugh laugh stupid you have no comment on that jesus christ say something accidentally racist yeah come on you're giving me nothing try to be nice but be racist in the end by accident that's the good stuff so he said that um now steve though said that he thought it was weird

that chrissy was really weird during this, which also she's on different things and hormones from getting her, you know, every part inside of her ripped out. That's a lot. So but he said, I found Chrissy's behavior at the funeral was just completely weird. You know, there wasn't even like a tear there. OK, then again, also, if you're on antidepressants too sometimes it's hard to get those emotions depending on your dosage and all that sort of thing i've known people like that so he also said steve merrill that he um remembers a weird conversation that he had with chrissy about a month before this all happened the accident he said quote i was telling chrissy about a friend

of mine his wife had a car the car was a lemon and they drove the car into a tree to total it huh jesus that's risky good god you can hurt yourself if doing that you really could like that's not safe you could kill yourself yeah he said quote it wasn't insurance fraud that is insurance fraud yeah it is it's the definition of insurance fraud to intentionally totaled this not insurance insurance fraud to purposely destroy something to collect a settlement is insurance fraud it's literally what it is it was a lemon you see so that's not insurance it's not insurance for well i i guess in his mind if the car wasn't really in a tree then it would be insurance fraud.

But if you actually wrap it around a tree, then it's not, which is not how it works. But anyway, I could see the change come over her. It was like I could tell that she had been looking for a way to get Charlie out of her life. Oh, my God. He's accusing her. But, I mean, that's all there is, is this guy's weird comments. And he's a guy who reads from the newspaper on public access with fucking bees crawling over his you know

superimposed image so it looks crazy so no one cares it's also a big leap because who's gonna crash a car to kill somebody you could hurt yourself it seems crazy right so after 18 months 18 months go by Christy decides that it's time to move on and she needs to

start dating again it's been a year and a half that it's time to move on and she's going to start dating again. It's been a year and a half. That's not bad. That's a time. I mean, that's plenty of time. People are lonely, you know?

So she's doing it and she gets on OK Cupid. Yeah. There you go. OK Cupid. Before long, she finds a 98% match,

baby. Oh, I thought you were going to say a 98-year-old man. A 98-year-old man. Hot, though. He's hot. he also has a public access tv show where he tries to get a boner for an hour and it doesn't work join us next week to see if i can get a boner again uh no see if when i when i crush up and wet down this viagra and shoot it straight into my cock if that works let's see if i snorted if

it works faster we're gonna try different viagra intake methods every week here i cook it in a spoon yeah they're gonna cook it in a spoon i'm gonna sprinkle it over my salad we'll see which one works the fastest so um 98 match she finds that's solid which seems solid it's a guy depends on what you're looking for yeah i mean if you're lying also in your profile you bullshit it then that's not gonna work so it's a man named kevin leland l-e-l-a-n-d and uh he just moved to the vermont area so he's new in town and uh here he is and it's funny every time uh over the next three weeks they got to know each other a little bit and he said quote we had an instant message conversation and that's when she messaged

mentioned she lost her husband in a car crash i did feel horrible to think of of losing a husband losing a spouse that way he said i was attracted to her sense of humor also she was a videographer and she said she was interested in celibate christian dating like me oh my god that what's the point of that right what's the point of that that's that's like like engaging in active like on purpose bulimia like i'm gonna eat this dinner just to throw it up but just to throw it up because that's the good like what are you talking about so you're gonna go out spend time with this person do all that and have no why would you pay for a membership to a website for that why don't you just go wander around and talk to people not dating is celibate dating that's what that is that's called not dating that's called

friendship go make friends that's a waitress my friend or a friend just go find a friend and there you go you're celibately dating that's every one of your friends you're celibately dating them we date the fuck out of you yeah we celibately date each other we're gonna go on a celibate honeymoon to go do a show it's yeah it happens we go on trips together we go on trips all the time happens we go on trips together we go on trips all the time so he instant messenger that's how it's working um attracted to her sense of humor so he he he liked her so they started chatting a little bit there a few a few hours the first night hours they're going night number one uh finally they get onto the phone talking on the phone after that. And their second phone call, though, I'll let Kevin say what happened on the second phone call. Oh, boy.

Quote, we've been talking and everything was going well, but I wanted to make sure I really knew her. I wanted to know about any downside. He's looking for the bad. This is what people do when things are going well, too. Sabotage. How do I destroy this but also if you if it's someone that you meet like in an online situation i feel like you should do this because absolutely you it's very easy to glorify this whole thing in your brain when you haven't met together so um he said that he admitted that he

could be violent at times uh he would get into fights out and like bars when provoked so he said he told her that he told her that he goes that's kind of my downside you know like that's i gotta go violent as fuck i'm looking for christian celibate dating but i'm violent super violent i like to i like to put my energy into violence rather than sex that's what i like to do maybe get laid sir you won't have that fucking anger you'll be the coolest dude in the bar that's it you'll be great you'll be feeling you'll be feeling a-okay sir you won't want to fight anybody yeah going two tablespoons heavy that's all knowing you're certainly not getting laid that night might cause violence i don't know so he says we've been talking everything

is going well i want to make sure i know her he could be violent at times. So he says, we've been talking. Everything is going well. I want to make sure I know her. He could be violent at times. Christine, he says, revealed that she had a similar violent streak. And eventually the conversation turned to the topic of her husband's death, as all do. As it does, yeah. And quote, she told me, I did it. I did it on purpose. Oh, my God.

He said that he was, okay, interesting. And he says, that's the answer to sometimes I punch people in bars. Yeah, I murdered my husband. Let's go. Yeah, there's a I got a package at the door that I got assigned for. My grandmother's here. I got to go by. You start making up crazy excuses.

My jello's burning. Phone call number two? My jello's burning. I have to go by. Like you start making up crazy excuses. My jello's burning. My jello's burning. I have to leave. Phone call number two. This is phone call number two. Yeah, this is, wow.

Yeah. He said, he said, quote, she was sobbing and it just came out between cries. She was telling him. And this is how he puts it, by the way.

This is his. He wrote a blog later about this whole thing and it's his blog is ridiculous it's funny as shit so he says quote i met chrissy on okcupid.com an online dating site where i've kept a profile for over a year we were somehow a 98 match chrissy called me her twin brother from another mother i think the matchmaker robot just perceived that i am a sucker for ruthless women it must have obtained data regarding my ex-wives wives um uh chrissy and i never had a sexual relationship i have been i have been discerning a vocation in the catholic church and have been on a two-year test drive with the celibacy thing before I commit longterm. I trust this guy zero also.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Plus not to sound judgmental, but between the filthiness, the promiscuity, the hard drugs, the neglect of her children, the smoking and the murdering.

I found the woman is about attractive as a bucket full of wriggling peckers. Oh my God. woman is about attractive as a bucket full of wriggling peckers oh my god what the fuck is happening wriggling are these dismembered penises is he talking about has he seen a bucket of dismembered but freshly dismembered so they're still moving like a chicken is that what they do they like a lizard's tail they have their own yeah they have their own muscle memories they're still moving like a chicken. Is that what they do? Like a lizard's tail? Is that what they do? Yeah, they have their own muscle memories. They're going in his past. To distract the predator and let me get away? They start trying to crawl away to a hole to protect themselves, I believe.

That's how it is. They're looking for a cave or something. Wriggling pattern. But not to sound judgmental was how he started that. That's the equivalent of italian guy going i mean no disrespect but he's gonna tell you i mean your mother's a whore and you're a piece of shit and this and that but no disrespect so not to be judgmental not to be judgmental sincerely the most judgmental thing anybody's ever said because i'm gonna say two words together that you've never heard before and then put them in the terms of a bucket full of them

one would have been fine all right a wriggling pecker i'm sold right a quantity of them that's gonna blow blow your fucking mind. Yeah, where'd you get that many wriggling peckers is one of my questions. One, you figure someone had a bad day. A bucket full. I'm going to start I'm not leaving the house anymore. Not to sound judgmental,

but she's filthy, promiscuous, does hard drugs, neglects her children, smokes, murders, and is attractive as a bucket of wriggling peckers. But not to sound judgmental. That's what this man just said. What in the fuck is going on? Oh, wriggling peckers. Holy shit.

I feel like he likes attention, so he's going to listen to this, too. So that's the funny part, because he's still writing blog shit about this. So, hi, Kevin. That's quite the turn of a phrase you there sir hi kevin quite quite the turn of phrase my friend i mean we're laughing it's not wow a bunch a bucket of wriggling wriggling is the key that makes it really it's really fantastic and not even just dicks not penis no no it's a it's a really it's a nice word salad it's a it's a status not like word salad in a bad way it's a it's like tomato and mozzarella it goes together these two wriggling

peckers and tomatoes and mozzarella i feel like it's oh man wow um it's amazing he said once once she told him uh they pray they prayed over the phone together okay i don't know what to bring him back from the dead i don't know what you're praying for at this point but you're gonna pray so you're gonna close your eyes now every time i close my eyes all i see is a bucket of wriggling peckers. That's all I see. I see it in my head every time we say it, too. Wriggling peckers. And I just see them going. So after this, rather than, at this point, you'd be like, nice, yeah, this is great.

You're never talking to this person again, right? Yeah, it's over. They made plans to meet in person. No, he's got to see i don't know what it is i just gotta see he says the first time we hung out i drove to her house which was about an hour or two from my place um we took we took a walk and she brought me to the scene of the wreck i don't want to be at the it's well if you go out with the murderer and she takes you to the scene of the murder or he takes you to the scene of the murder, you should be frightened. This is the difference between... Imagine if you were a woman being taken to a man.

He's like, this is where I killed my wife. You'd be like, he's going to strangle me. You know? But this guy invested two hours of his day to get there. He drove all the way here. He wanted to see this shit. We took a walk. It's strange, but she was kind of

proud of it, he says. She told me that her husband had been abusive and I thought if he was beating her up, maybe her actions were justified. I didn't call the police right away because I wanted to meet her. I've never seen a murderer. I mean, yes, she's a murderer,

but I mean, you know, wow. He says that he was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt about being, you know, the domestic violence. He said, I was still checking things out. I thought maybe she wanted to come clean and I could help her. Yeah. Okay. So he started asking more questions about the abuse.

But she said, he said from what she revealed she revealed in his opinion it wasn't anything severe enough to justify murder it wasn't like he was her life wasn't in danger uh he said quote she said things like oh he'd yell at me to clean the house but in but in reality she was a hoarder so i could understand if he wanted her to clean yeah um as we'll talk he's got a whole thing about it there so and we're not saying you know, we're saying whatever. You get it. This situation, as he's saying, isn't warranting that. So now once they met up, they're walking in the farmlands and he says, quote, she wasn't

in such an upbeat mood. And I asked her what was wrong. And she said the accident. We had walked down Route 5, the same road the accident occurred on. And we went right around the tree that she hit she was explaining the details of the accident and it felt kind of weird um she said he then said even though as much as i didn't want to hear the gory details i want to know about her marriage stuff um so she he that she also told him that he was abusive to the children as well. Oh, shit. He said, I was devastated hearing this. You know, my breath stopped.

And she talked about feeling guilty about the accident. And I said, of course, you know, you're going to feel guilty. It's natural. But it wasn't your fault. She was no, you don't understand. No, I did it on purpose. I killed him on purpose. So that's how that went.

Now, he said that he decided at that point to try to get further proof before he went to the cops because now he's decided that he's going to go to the cops being that she's attractive as wriggling peckers and all if he wanted to fuck her he wouldn't be going to the cops that's the thing he he'd kill like another ex-husband of hers for her that's he he drove two hours to see how hot she is and if crazy and hot add up and she fucks good, I'm going to cancel the celibate shit and take a chance with this. Because his pecker's wriggling. That's the difference. You betcha.

He said, I didn't expect to be believed just telling my story without any kind of backup evidence. I decided I was going to put a digital recorder in my pocket, set up another meeting with her and get her to confess. All right, Donnie Brosco. Let's see what you got here. Easy, big pussy. All right. He goes to the police the next day. He does it.

And, you know, and he gets it on recording and he goes to the police. The recording says, she says, quote, I killed him, but I love that man very much. But I wasn't about to let anyone kill me yeah it wasn't easy it wasn't easy you can't just go kill somebody and be like okay whatever i don't care what they say in the movies that's what she's on her quote that's not great no but the first part you can wash with i killed him because i mean anybody could be behind the wheel of a car exactly in an accident and feel guilty second sentence is the one that fucks her that's not great it wasn't easy it was my fault as well yeah it wasn't easy boy i'll tell you what the police said they didn't know if maybe she was just confessing to try to impress him if there was

some sort of weird relationship they had so also the fact that the it was done without her knowledge this recording and in vermont you can't do that and then it without any kind of warrant so it's not admissible in court so they were like you have to do you know something there so he then says later on he told in an interview she threatened to kill me if I recorded her and turned her in

oh my god there was one time she stood over me with a knife look at this hunting knife a 13 inchinch blade. It was sketchy, and she had a lot of sketchy friends. Some of them are threatening me now. That's what he said on a news station. Holy shit.

So he said that from what he gathered, it seemed like she was trying to collect insurance money about Charlie. But, yeah, one day he said, quote quote one day she said to me i'd hate to have to drive you into a tree so anyway um he ended up i guess doing like a little undercover sting operation with the police and everything to get her being recorded here so this is from his blog quote i had a certain intuition even even when we first instant messaged that she made herself a widow. Right away, he says that. So he talks about prayers and all this shit. Anyway, he said that more things.

He said, I felt called in a mystical way to this family crisis, a story in itself for later. I made sure I put justice on the back burner and focused on love and mercy first and ensuring her kids were safe he's just an angel here yeah what a hero i knew i had to convince her to turn herself in i ran that by my friend father cyprian and he agreed i was working to that end when about eight weeks after she confessed to me we had a falling out she was high on oxys that she had that she had. And an accomplice stole from our sick friend who we had just helped move from Vermont to Connecticut. She stole sixty dollars out of my wallet.

And by the end of some other drama involving her accomplished accomplice, she threatened to kill me if I ever recorded her confessions and turned her in. So after that, after she said that, I put justice on the front burner and ever recorded her confessions and turned her in so after that after she said that i put justice on the front burner and i recorded her conversation now the beans are important to this meal i'm to turn justice up to a simmer let's get justice on a hard boil shall we everyone let's get it rolling wow so they a detective went to her home to interview her, and the police officer said she was under the assumption that I was there to speak about the insurance claim because she was trying to cash in on his $100,000 insurance policy. As we were speaking about the insurance claim, I then kind of changed gears. He started to say things like uh was there any way maybe you just had enough and snapped and drove into a tree and he said at that point that christy started

trying to change the topic which is a bad sign um so then he outright asked her if she ever told anyone she intentionally crashed the car and she said no um now they know from the tape that that's a lie i guess they they started saying that they had proof from they know somebody, blah, blah, blah. So then she started to crack and she said, can we go outside? So they went away from her daughters outside. She asked the cop if he could guarantee she would get visitation rights to her daughters. That's the question she asked. He's like, whoa, I was just poking around.

He replied that he thought she was jumping the gun a bit and it seemed that she was thinking she had done something for which she'd go to jail for. She replied, yeah. And then she said, I didn't exactly pass out at all at any point. We were driving home. He flipped out on me. When we got to the farm and I saw the tree, I knew it wasn't going to move when I hit it. And the crazy part is that was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life was that tree coming at me.

I thought we were both going to die. That was what I thought was going to happen. I could say I couldn't take it. I could. I said I couldn't take it anymore. I don't want to be here anymore. And I say I certainly ain't going to leave with him with my kids. OK, so he's going to kill them both.

So she should have probably taken her seat belt off then if she was if that was the goal murder suicide is the is the game here that's saying that's what she's saying um so um yeah that's that's how that goes so she said then she started saying that he was controlling wouldn't allow her to have friends or talk to her oldest daughter or parents on the telephone she told the cops that she saw the tree and you know that's how it worked there so um anyway the uh it's everyone's shocked by this in the whole town obviously this is fucking crazy they arrest her for murder at first by the way here's some tidbits from Kevin's blog about Christina. Okay. I don't know if any of this is true. Obviously, this is one person saying, you know, who knows.

But it's worth saying because it's crazy. From his blog, quote, Chrissy kept the house in deplorable condition. This depressed her daughter to the point of apathy, and she gave up on trying to clean up after her mother and manage a house in between trying to manage a teenage social life school church activities homework and her many creative projects chrissy let it get to the point where there was dog shit all over the floor like six to twelve piles at any given time dirty laundry covered the bathroom floor food was rotting in the fridge and all over the counters, and the girls were constantly getting stomach bugs, which were really cases of food poisoning about twice a month. Chrissy has never really worked and is a self-proclaimed, quote, lazy bitch.

And only cleans her house in preparation for one of her internet sex buddies to come over. One of whom was having sex with her one day in the living room her daughter stayed home from school that day and came downstairs and got an eyeful gross they casually said hello to her and laughed it off i don't again who's going over to fuck a woman with dog shit all over the floor men with hard dicks it will fuck yeah yeah it happens chrissy is always broke because by my estimates, from her bank records and my knowledge of her expenses, she is spending $700 to $800 per month on pills, weed, cigarettes, and an exercise machine.

Okay? She's a peloton. I suppose. The power and or internet is always getting shut off. She hasn't paid for gas for the stove since running out months ago. In October 2010, we came back from our trip to Connecticut and Rhode Island to no heat, no electric, no water. The girls had to stay with Chrissy's mother that night. Marianne, Chrissy's mother, was aware of these circumstances to a great degree.

She didn't step in. She didn't help out. I asked Chrissy why she didn't ask her mother to pool their resources and live together and take care of the girls. Chrissy told me that would be impossible. I understand that Marilyn has struggled with mental illness. That's her mom.

She is a sweet lady as far as I can tell and Chrissy is definitely a bully who doesn't tolerate criticism even when it's due. However, Marilyn failed to get help for her granddaughters by at least reporting to your agency the neglect these girls were suffering. Chrissy told Marilyn that she confessed to murdering Charlie and would be

making me a guardian when she had to face the charges. Marilyn was okay with that from what Chrissy told me. Okay, Cupid guy is going to be the guardian. Marilyn and her friend Jan indicated to me that they were very happy that I had stepped in to take care of the girls until the courts would decide where they should be placed. I initially expected the guardian to be to be guardian temporarily until I started to find out that none of the blood relatives seemed well suited to take care of them properly. Chrissy and the girls told me this. However, I didn't completely believe it until I saw for myself. until I saw for myself. Marilyn, Chrissy, or anyone else who may have known bothered to tell the girls that Chrissy was taking responsibility

for killing their father intentionally. They left that task in my lap. I was the one who had to break the news to the girls so they wouldn't have to hear it from their friends after it had been on TV. Paul sends $60 per month allowance to his granddaughters and seems to have a good relationship with the girls. However, the one girl said that although she loves him, I am the most responsible adult in her life right now. Like Paul, I'm not a rich guy, but I spent about $200 a month traveling to

Newport about twice a month for almost a year, buying food, paying for certain things like the daughter's yearbook, Halloween costumes, etc. I spent many hours cleaning that sty as best I could. When Chrissy went into custody, I spent an entire week on about seven hours sleep moving them into an apartment on South Street because the girls had just been hit with the news. I couldn't make them work alongside me moving. I let them spend time with their friends or play on the computer while I worked hard. Paul, Marilyn, and Brandy did nothing to help with that. I scrubbed and disinfected all the furniture and set it all up in the apartment on South Street. Paul took the key from me when he came with the Heinsberg police to take the girls out of my custody.

Now he's staying in the apartment. Okay. our resources to take care of the girls and setting up a child safe to adult system like the training I've completed recommends with the grandmother close by making it that much easier. He acted like he liked the idea. Then the next thing you know, dot, dot, dot. I caught Paul collaborating with two of Chrissy's drug dealers who were threatening me. I'll post threatening correspondence later.

I told the daughter via text i just found out your papa is in cahoots with one of your mother's with two of your mother's drug dealers she responded i've known that since i was 11 okay in cahoots in cahoots in court by the way is the first time at her arraignment when christy chrissy finds out that kevin is the one who is the informant she didn't know that before she freaks out um has a bit of a meltdown the judge will not let her enter a plea because she's acting so wacky he says i'm going to hold her without bail and she's remanded for evaluation at the state state hospital for competency holy um yeah they want to see if she's sane basically because i

heard she had a lot of shit going on in her brain. I don't know how sane she is here. So I these they said her lawyer said, quote, I think the state had developed some doubt about how credible Kevin would be in front of a jury. That's the that's because Kevin was again. I don't know if it was after he turned her in or what, but he was caught at the border with a gun and drugs, they said. So, yeah, Mr. Fucking Christian there. So apparently that's what's on a news thing here. I don't know how true that is or whatever.

So her lawyer was trying to get the tape statements thrown out. So at that point, they said it's kind of a risk to go for first degree murder. So they offer her a plea deal. And she takes it. Really? Yep. 20 minute hearing hearing she doesn't say shit judge says you want to say anything she shakes her head she pleads guilty to manslaughter and that's what she gets they tell her uh let's see here uh you ma'am may fuck off 7 to 15 years in prison. Wow. Yeah. So light.

She never proved any claims of abuse or anything like that. The kids, I guess, didn't back it up in court. We don't know. Wow. Kevin here, he says he doesn't see any reason to swear off online dating altogether. Sure. One of the chicks I met was a murderer, but, you know, he still has an active OKCupid profile as of a while later.

Of course he does. And he's hopeful about meeting someone. Yeah. He says he's not letting one scary situation get in the way of his pursuit of love. That's what he says. One scary, lazy bitch. They said, they asked him if he's been, you know, he said, which one of your relationships was Chris, was Christie the worst all time dating experience? and he said top three so there you go maybe worse than that he has ex

wives so maybe those were worse for him so um either way he uh he also talks about a little bit later on he talks about uh he gets into all this detail about trying to make sure the two girls could keep their dogs. They had two small dogs and two cats and trying to make sure they remain with the dogs. And all he has like paragraphs about dogs and shit like that and about the kids, too. And it's it's very interesting here. Very interesting here. He also said this. I smoke weed occasionally and did so with Chrissy so as not to blow my cover while getting evidence for the state police.

Now he's an informant. It also enabled me to find out who she was getting it from and what kind of people were around the girls. I've gone years at a time without touching the stuff and would gladly set it aside again if it disqualified me from being their guardian. I seldom drink alcohol and never have had more than two drinks at a time. I've only been drunk twice in the last 22 years. Chrissy tried to keep her pill use secret from me. Blah, blah, blah. He goes on and on and fucking on and on and on. There's a lot here.

I mean, it's, wow, she really goes on a lot. Either way, she gets out of jail sometime. Her minimum would have been up in 2018. That would have been her seven. So at this point here, 2020, she's thrown back in jail again. Is that right? She is sentenced to 16 to 18 months for domestic assault on her boyfriend. Wow.

Yep. She's got that. We don't have his name because he's a domestic assault victim so they don't put it in the paper but he's uh yes uh he apparently she apparently uh assaulted him and threatened to kill him and the police had to come remove her from the home and now she's put in jail for 16 months you can't you can't as a convicted murderer tell people i'm gonna murder you especially, yeah, your boyfriend after you killed your husband. Now, what I did find here, though, because she's got to be out by now. On LinkedIn, there is a Christine Billis from the greater Burlington, Vermont area that does pastel portraits of people, animals, and places.

I don't know if she does art, too, but I thought maybe with the production stuff if it's the same woman if not i feel bad for christine this christine billis because everyone thinks she's a murderer so either way that is brownington vermont and one shit hell of a crazy fucking story if they've ever heard one before wow that's crazy i want to meet the two chicks that he dated that were worse than her that's who i want to know they show up with buckets of wriggling dicks what are those stories just the the head of their ex-boyfriends you know holding it up by the hair i shrunk this i don't know what either way down next to the fucking potato skins no shit either way do that shut up and give me murder.com is where you get tickets for live shows san francisco milwaukee get them all out there

florida after that get your tickets now to all of that patreon.com slash crime and sports this week john rocker and the crazy skidmore missouri case of everybody watching a guy get murdered and not saying shit about it it's wild stuff join us every damn week keep hanging out with us yeah thank you so much and uh we'll see you next week everybody bye kevin you Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,

her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.