Small Town Murder - #306 - The Zombie Apocalypse Has Begun - Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

This week, in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, an upstanding young family is seemingly set on the right path, with small children, and the husband even running for local office... Until it all falls apart, in a very crazy way. In addition to both parents being on a lot of drugs, the father is absolutely preparing for what he calls "the inevitable zombie apocalypse". Complete with training sessions for the kids, and a plan to survive the inescapable mortal zombie combat, that is sure to come. This whole thing takes another complete left turn, when a terrifying bloodbath occurs, one night, but the results are nothing that anyone could ever have predicted!!Along the way, we find out that people have mixed feelings about northern Idaho, that the zombie apocalypse shouldn't be more of a concern than paying your rent, and that just when you think a situation can't get any worse, it most certainly does!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, seemingly normal people's lives fall apart as drugs, violence, and of course, the fear of an upcoming zombie apocalypse take over,

leading to a horrific and bloody night of murder. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another just insane edition of Small Town Murder. And we're not going to disappoint this week. Last week was West Virginia, so obviously we know what that's about. And this week my god we we idaho should be called the west virginia of the northwest in terms of murder because the murders there are nuts every murder we've done there is crazier than the last this is no exception we'll get into that quickly before we do though

thank you for everything you've done for us this week and always reviews five stars on whatever app you're listening to is helpful head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now yeah immediately first of all you're going to get all the merchandise there everything from bath mats to skateboards to coffee cups you name it it's there anything we've ever said get all of that and most importantly pretty much anything we've said it's on a t-shirt somewhere yeah and get your they're just out the pam and lamb ham jam ban t-shirts are out so get those and of course tickets to live shows if you're listening right when this comes out the week it comes out well then you can get tickets

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So thank you for doing that. Get your tickets to that. And, of course, get your tickets also to Florida, where we are tonight. Two shows at the Tampa Improv and two shows at the Orlando Improv in September. Do all of that. Patreon this week. We are cooking. It's good stuff.

I will say that. Patreon.com slash We are cooking. It's good stuff. I will say that. Patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get it all. We do two new episodes every other week on Patreon. You're going to get them all. You're going to get all the crime and sports bonus, the small town murder bonus, any bonus that comes out. You're going to get it this week. What you're going to get is for crime and sports. We're going to talk about the scandals of Michael Jordan.

for crime and sports we're going to talk about the scandals of michael jordan of course everyone knows who michael jordan is people you know somebody who's never seen a television knows who michael jordan is it's one of those things well he had a lot of scandals number one gambling conspiracy theories around the death of his father and links to his gambling all these conspiracy theories affairs paternity suits and the biggest fest, juiciest divorce settlement I've ever heard of. So we'll talk all about that. Tremendous. And then small-town murder. Oh, our favorite, small-town reviews.

My God, this is the best. We can't wait for that. So get in on that right now. We're going to talk about small towns and, of course, a couple of businesses here and there in a small town. It'll be hilarious. Don't worry about that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

And Jimmy will give you a shout out at the end of the show, of course, where if you have an Italian or an Eastern European name, he will butcher it horribly. But he'll try. That's what's important. It's not my fault. That's it. Quickly, the disclaimer.

It's a comedy show. It is. We're comedians, so there's going to be jokes and people are going to die. Both of those things are going to happen. But this is the way we do it here. We try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes.

But? But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. We try our best to keep it nice. And if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, maybe it's not for you. Or maybe it is, and I think maybe you're thinking about it wrong. We're not sitting around going like, oh, my cut her head off that's awesome that's a that's not where the jokes come in talk about a lot of things a bumbling police force lets a murderer go free

some crazy murderer we'll make fun of things like small towns we're all from a small town so please don't get offended at that either so if that sounds good to you, sit back. We got a crazy show. It's time to clear the lungs, Jimmy. Let's do it. Sit back and shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Alright. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We shall.

We shall. We are going all the way to Idaho this week. Yeah. Holy cow. From West Virginia to Idaho. Out of the frying pan into the fire, people. Let's do it. Co cow. From West Virginia to Idaho. Out of the frying pan into the fire, people. Let's do it. Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. It's a fascinating state.

It really is. It's a very odd state. It's like part Aspen, part militia training ground. It's a very weird- We run it right under the fucking radar somewhere. It's just a weird place.

Yeah. Not a lot of news makes it from fucking Idaho. No, it doesn't. That's the thing. They keep it all kind of in there. It's an ins weird place. Yeah. Not a lot of news makes it from fucking Idaho. No, it doesn't. That's the thing. They keep it all kind of in there. It's very, it's an insular place. It's a very insular place.

Don't tell nobody. Coeur d'Alene was like always a vacation town for a long time. And now it's become really bizarre. It's a booming kind of a place now. Let's all move to Northern Idaho is an odd thing because it's cold up there too. That's the other thing. It's not, it's a, the weather's rough. Tell somebody, spell Coeur d'Al's cold up there, too. That's the other thing. The weather's rough. You tell somebody, spell Coeur d'Alene, who's never seen it.

They'll never spell it. Never in a million. Nope, that's not it. No, you got to make the D lowercase and then put it right next to the A. But there's an accent in there. Yeah, I know. It doesn't make any sense, right? Get after it.

Go ahead. It's in northern Idaho, right in the heart of the panhandle, baby. You betcha. This here is a panhandle behavior episode as well this is about 40 minutes to Spokane Spokane's right there seven hours all the way to Boise that's all the way down in the

other side of the state and about seven fucking hours seven hours of driving through Idaho and seven hours and 35 minutes to Blackfoot Idaho which was our last episode episode 252, a skull in the wood stove. So like we said, Idaho's crazy always.

It really is. This is in, and I'm going to say this wrong, I'm sure, Kootenai County, K-O-O-T-N-A-I, T-E-N-A-I, that seems right. I don't know. Whatever. Motto of this town, city with a heart. Okay. Okay.

It's a freezing heart, but it's there. It's just cold in the winter. History of this town started off as a mining and prospecting town. Truth. They discovered gold and silver here in the mountains in the 1860s, and then the Northern Pacific Railroad came through in 1883, and that's when- Yeah, you got to move that shit. Yeah, and that's when it became, they started pulling ore out of the ground and all that kind of shit and they had rail lines and steamboats and it was like pumping some gold out looked like deadwood around there yeah yeah it was officially incorporated

in 1887 and um by the 1890s they have two giant minor uprisings which is i don't mean minor small i mean miners had an uprising not young people people that go into the earth that burrow into the earth and pull shit out of it decided they were pissed off at shit um they were mad at high risk and low pay because i mean yeah mines are they're dangerous now this was 130 years ago they were just like we dug a hole go in there oh shit you're spelunking to pull shit out yeah that's that's making danger so in 1892 the union the miners union had discovered a spy in there amongst them there a mole a guy named charlie seringo who was a quote sometime cowboy and pinkerton agent so they hired him to infiltrate the whole thing here. And so this resulted in a

labor strike that developed into a shooting war between the miners and the company that they worked for. So they would shoot at each other. The mine owners planned to reduce wages of some workers to offset increased operating costs, and the miners declared a strike and that's how that all went so to restore order the governor had to declare martial law and have federal troops set in sent in to arrest and detain the union miners and uh but there was six deaths tons of shootings all sorts of one of them wasn't it uh yeah i think so 600 miners were put into bullpens without any hearings or formal charges they just like held them they just held them for a while to say until shit dies down why don't you just pay them and shut the fuck up no this is easier they had the federal government come do it for them and

they didn't have to pay them shit and then yeah that's that's what the unbelievable he's mining look up any kind of mining thing from like west virginia or some of the uprisings over the years, it's unreal. They just own these people. Practically, it's terrible. Similar thing happened in 1899. The union was launching an organizing drive because they weren't fully unionized yet. And they wanted the – I guess they were receiving 50 cents to a dollar less pay than other miners. The miners, a bunch of miners got on a a

train called the dynamite express and this was toward the site of a big mine and the miners carried 3 000 pounds of dynamite into the mill and completely destroyed it my kind of guys so the crowd also burned down the company office the boarding house and the home of the mine manager just for good measure yes his personal house too so martial law was just was declared again and uh guess what happened same problems for the miners yeah there you go so reviews of this town here we go and there are varying reviews this is like from perfect to hell on earth. We rarely get that. There's usually a theme that goes on here. This is a beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing. Like people see this very subjectively here.

Okay. And keep in mind, because lately when we get new listeners, the only complaints we get, it's not about death. It's not about murders. It's not about, they complain. Do you have to be so mean to the towns? I'm like, who cares? People are dead. Who gives a fuck? Yeah. What we're doing here, in case you're a new listener, we're not they complain, do you have to be so mean to the towns? I'm like, who cares? People are dead.

Who gives a fuck? Yeah. What we're doing here, in case you're a new listener, we're not, obviously, if you're new, you don't kind of, you're trying to get the lay of the land. I understand that. This is like a roast. This is it. This is the part of the show where no one's been horribly murdered yet.

So you can just make jokes anywhere. Later on in the show, we have to, you know, it's a little more, we have to be tactful, basically. Also, I'm really sorry that you hold your fucking town in such high esteem. Calm the fuck down. Sometimes it's not even people from the towns. It's just I don't think you're mean to the towns. And I'm like, listen, it's a roast.

And that's why I did my own hometown. That's why we did it. To show it's just a roast. We mean nothing by it. And the reviews, by the way, are not our saying. I'm just reading what other people have said. That's all I'm doing. I don't know.

You're getting the lay of the land. So are we. We're trying to figure out what it's like here. And it doesn't sound great. And the reviews I liked, I put five-star ones in there if there are N ones. I try to give the whole run of the thing. I can't help it if some people don't like it there. Five stars.

Coeur d'Alene is perfect. i do not have any complaints at all the weather is a dream it does get pretty cold but it's nice okay so they love it this that's what i mean perfect uh four stars cordelaine is a pacific northwest dream wow a perfect and everybody with the dreams two dreams in a row here surrounded by towering mountains and open skies. It would practically be impossible not to fall in love with such scenery. The center of our town is a lake comparable to an indigo night rich with history and wildlife. What? He's ever described a town and said indigo. Who is Jack London writing about?

Right. What the hell's going on here. That's amazing. Diversity, however, can be quite lacking. I hope to see a vibrancy of cultures infiltrate our community as it continues to grow. Three stars. When I moved here, I thought it was the best place on earth. Something tells me their mind has been changed in the last little while.

I want to know what happened. Yeah, the people are extremely nice want to know what happened yeah the people are extremely nice and i feel safe knowing that people are really protective of the citizens they come out in full force with their guns blazing when there's any sign of outsiders heading this way to cause trouble what is this the 1800s there's never a okay whatever town you live in there's never a group of outsiders who are invading to cause trouble and you have to the townspeople have to arm themselves against that. That hasn't happened in at least a hundred years,

I would say probably. Right. That's so scary. That sounds terrifying. Yeah. That's it also says, Oh, they have,

it's a, they get political here. Once again, these are not our, but we're saying I also, also, I was very proud to be living in a red conservative state, but now the Californians are unfortunately moving in, and that ruins the area. They salt the earth behind them, the Californians. It's two stars.

The nature is truly breathtaking. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever lived. That's a weird intro for a two-star review. There must be something really bad coming here unfortunately you know i've had people just stick their fingers up your ass constantly when you're walking down the street that's the weird part it's like unfortunately there is an incredible energy of intolerance uh to difference it's really upsetting there's also many men with assault style rifles walking down around downtown day and night it is very disturbing so yeah they don't like it so we've had you know two

differing opinions here uh here's one star uh it is a it's a terrible place home of the skinheads and unsafe for children and young adults you don't even need a permit to carry to conceal carry weapons the winters are brutal. And last summer was outrageously hot and dry. The aquifer is getting contaminated and the fish are dying. You would most definitely not want to live here. Jesus, the aquifer. That's a problem.

The fish are dying. Jesus. Anyway, so there that's that's a one, two or three or four on a five star. Very varying opinions. I don't fucking know. I've never been there. Anyway, people in this town, it's grown. It's really blown up huge lately.

It's 53,354 right now. Oh, my. Which is way more than it's ever been. Way, way more. And it's about average in terms of age, male and female, all that sort of thing here. Even married rate, that's all pretty normal uh race of this town 89 white 0.4 black 0.9 asian and 5.3 hispanic so it's not uh that's that's pretty white um which we that's that's the snowy states you know yeah yeah uh what do you expect yeah uh religion 60 or 59 are religious it's normally

50 50 right absolutely and they're it's they go around to a lot of different things they're the most of the labeled denominations is mormonism but it's 39 another christian faith so i don't know what that is i'm not quite sure what that faith is who knows but they all seem to be practicing something that isn't on the list of traditionals here this place sounds volatile james it's interesting yeah 0.0 percent jewish though that's that's one thing that's not going to be there um in this county last last election, 27% Democratic, 69.9% Republican, 3% Independent. Unemployment rates here is about normal in the ballpark. It's very fluctuating the last couple of years, so it's hard to tell. The median household income here, though, is $41,000 a year,

which is about $54,000 in the rest of the country. So that's a little bit low cost of living is a little bit high actually so that's not a good combination low low income high cost of living is rough the 100 is average here it's 106 so you know a little bit high median home cost that's the high one that's the thing that spikes it 476 800 is the median home cost how How do you do that? I don't know. To live in northern Idaho, that seems a bit steep, unless you're really into skiing. Right. That math doesn't work out still, because then you can't afford it. Or you can't afford it.

Or starting a militia. This would be a great place for that, too. So either way, I mean, people have done it before. Either way, we have for you the Coeur d'Alene, Idaho real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here somehow is only $959 a month. I don't know how. I don't know if they don't exist that much or what, but everything else is expensive. Found this.

It's a trailer. Okay, this is your cheapest option. Two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,300 square this. It's a trailer. Okay, this is your cheapest option. Two bedroom, two bath, 1,300 square feet. So it's a big trailer. It's not that big. It's 1,300 square feet. I mean, that's not bad. It looks like someone has probably smoked four packs a day in it for the last 35 years.

Like you can see nicotine on the walls and tar. Only two interior pictures, but that's really all you need to know that you don't want to live here. $29,000 for this little gem. Not good. Found a four bedroom, two bath, 1,760 square feet. It's just a real normal run of the mill family house,

updated kitchen, all that kind of shit. $540,000 for that. 000 for that get out 1760 square feet it's silly then there's a four bedroom three bath 3380 square feet so it's a big place it's a it's a log cabin for guys who've like gotten out of a hedge fund you know what i mean it's like a log cabin for rich people is a good way to describe it there's a moose head overlooking the living room um it looks i mean it's very idaho it's very idaho uh 1 million 395 000 bucks for that 1.3 million and then just here you go just this one is just it's a fantasy here five bedroom nine bath nine bath. So, T-Balls for more B-Holes than you can ever find.

So many. Yeah. 10,444 square feet. All right. 6.7 acres. Huge house. $30 million. What?

$30 million. Three zero. Not three. $30 million. Who the fuck has lived there? That's what I'm wondering. Three zero. Not three. Thirty million dollars. Who the fuck has lived there? That's what I'm wondering. Is somebody in need of a ski house?

You know, I think. It's got to be a lodge for something. Jack Nicholson bought his in Aspen. I don't know if that's going to be the same there. Things to do here. Thirty million dollars. That's a lot. Wow. For all the potatoes in Idaho, boy, I'll tell you.

Things to do. The Fall Fest and Applepalooza. Applepalooza. Applepalooza. There will be harvest produce, music, food, and everyone's favorite, Applepalooza. Apple tasting event throughout downtown. You go there and you taste people's apples and see what they're all about. Those are good apples.

I like them apples. Yeah. I like that apple, too. That sounds good. I like apples. I mean, I don't know if I'm traveling anywhere for apples. Feels like they should have called it Appaloosa, right? Yeah, or just Appapaloosa.

Appapaloosa. Put them together. This is Appapaloosa, two separate words. Yeah, I don't like it. Put it together. Then there's O'Sherman's Gold Fest. All right. This is Apple Palooza. Two separate words. Yeah. I don't like it. Put it together. Then there's O'Sherman's Gold Fest. All right.

Join us. Join us in the search for gold. O'Sherman the Leprechaun will be hiding every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday during business hours on Friday. This is ridiculous. Participate by visiting the host sites O'Sherman is hiding at. Follow the map provided below. When you arrive at the business, find the sneaky leprechaun and write down the word he's holding. A letter from each word will make a secret phrase that will lead you to the end of the rainbow.

It's Ovaltine. I'll save everyone some time. Leave your completed map in exchange for some chocolate gold and to be entered to win gift cards from each location. So you're not looking for gold. You're looking for a leprechaun and then you get chocolate? What the fuck kind of game is that? That's stupid. And at the end of it, you get more chocolate?

Or do you get gold? Yeah, no, no, no. They give you more chocolate and then there's gift cards worth $20 from participating locations. That's not gold. So you get some candy wrapped in a gold wrapper and then a $20 gift card locations. That's not gold. So you get like a $20, you get some candy wrapped in a gold wrapper and then like a $20 gift card to Jersey Mike's and that's what you're getting. That's your gay.

Ooh, what a fun game. Wow. This is so much fun. And is it a real leprechaun or do you think it's just like, uh, yes, Jimmy,

he's a real leprechaun. They took him, they hit, they captured him in Ireland, actually. It took years. Run around town. Yeah, it's weird that he's in Idaho. That's the strange part of it.

I'll tell you something. Crime rate in this town. They got a little person with a fucking outfit. I'm sure that's probably what it is. I bet it's just a piece of paper, like a cutout of something stuck somewhere with a post-it on its hand. Some poor five-year-old sitting there. That'd be great. Come on, put the dirty costume on and stand in front of the tire store.

It smells like whiskey. Put it on! Put it on and hold that sign that has a letter on it. You fucking... Anyway. In front of the big old tires. Let's go. Out there.

Crime rate in this town. Just stick them in front of the Flying J. Crime rate in this town just stick them in front of the flying jay crime rate in this town property crime it's high uh it's about a third one third high so it's really it's a bit high yeah it's not not small and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime yeah also high it's's about one quarter more than the national average. So, high. Shit's going down. Put it that way.

That said, let us talk about a murder that happened here. Okay. Holy shit. This murder's weird because outside of a few factors, it feels like it happened in 1982, but this happened in 2014. It's very strange. And this is also a story where I'm going to start the story, and everyone's going to think it's going a certain direction, and I promise you that it is not going that direction at all. So 10 minutes into this, if you think you know what's going to happen, you have no fucking idea what's going to happen. Trust me. It's that much of a what the hell just happened type of thing okay let's get started

and talk about a couple people here okay first off let's talk about eldon gale samuel jr it's a lot of work eldon gale samuel jr well his friends and his wife just call him Junior. Yeah. He's Junior. That's it. Old June. June. I'll hear Junior as he married a woman named Tina. Her name was Tina McCurdy, and then she took his name, Samuel. So Junior and Tina Samuel are the couple we're getting at here. And so when the whole thing takes place in 2014, he's 46 at that point.

So we're going to rewind about 20 years when they got married here, 18 years, to 1998 is when they get married, Tina and Junior. They live in Modesto, California, which is northern California. Probably seen Scott Peterson. Yeah, there you go. So if you want to get a visual of that, if you want to put that in your head. All I ever picture, if you say the words Lacey and Scott Peterson, I just picture him out in a rowboat having just dumped his wife in the water.

I just picture him out there going, well, I guess I can tell everyone I went fishing. That's a guy who was very successful to have such a piece of shit boat yeah that's the other thing could have had a better boat so anyway they were they're from uh they're from modesto they got married at the alpine meadows wedding chapel very sounds so they went on a honeymoon in modesto they went on a honeymoon in lake tahoe oh boy yeah that's very nice there and they probably drove to the honeymoon i would assume it's right over the mountains there um so anyway they got married everybody's happy everything's going well um now he has a son already when they get married. He has a son from a previous relationship. His name's Anthony. And then together they have two more boys.

Really? Yeah, 1999. They have Eldon Gale Samuel III, of course. That's right. If you've listened to crime and sports, you know it's never a good sign when people are having juniors and thirds. For some reason that causes crime. We don't know why. There's been no university-level study on this to exactly why that happens.

All it is is case studies that just happen over and over and over again, it seems. It's anecdotal, but Jesus, on Crime and Sports, it's like 315, 316 episodes. It's so often. It like 30 30 percent of the time there's juniors involved it's it's a lot too much so uh he's born in 1999 eldon the third he just they call him eldon i guess here and then they have the next year 11 months later they have jonathan as well and jonathan um is severely autistic is what everybody says um now it's been said in in multiple different court documents publications that it's been said that he has both he's severely autistic and some places say he has down syndrome so i'm not sure which it is but i hear i i read severely

autistic more so i believe he's severely autistic and he needs a lot of attention and he needs care. He can do things. He's not without any agency. He's got faculties, yeah. But he needs extra attention. He needs extra help. Sure. You know what I mean?

And it's possible to have both, too, because on that love on the spectrum. Yeah, you can have both. There's a gal that's on the spectrum and she has downs. But've never but in all the documents i never saw it said that he had both it always says he has one or the other that's the things i feel like some people just don't know what what is yeah what happened so he either way now the oldest anthony he described jonathan as always happy so jonathan's a happy kid. Real happy. He, as, and if you've got a kid with autism, this is a thing that happens because my son, it's exactly the same thing, loves Legos.

That's his favorite thing in the world, which you give my son the most complicated Lego set in the world, and he's like, okay, and he sits down with it and just does it until it's done. Doesn't matter how long it takes. And it's so fast. And it's fast. He does it like a fucking machine. We're watching. It's crazy.

It's impressive to watch. It really is. So they can do that really well. And his favorite, he loved Godzilla. He was really into Godzilla. He liked that. Did he build a Godzilla out of Legos? I don't know if he built a Godzilla, but that was his favorite movie at the time because

that was in the late 90s. Those Godzilla remakes were coming out. Remember those? I'll bet he did. I would assume if there's a Godzilla Lego, he probably would have built it. those i'll bet he did i would assume if there's a godzilla lego he probably would have built it but uh so they live in they live in modesto california and things seem to be going well for this family like i said stick around this is not where going where you think um he uh junior here the father he ends up running for office he runs for a council position oh boy okay here he is uh if you want to roll your

chair over here i'll show this guy to you here here he is there's his picture in the paper with his suit on nice suit and tie he looks so young yeah oh he is young at this point christ he's in his 20s right here yeah yeah i mean he's he's a young guy he they i'll read the article this is from the modesto b it says modesto native eld Eldon Samuel Jr. is the ninth person to say he'll run for city council in November. The tally includes three incumbents, blah, blah, blah. Samuel said his campaign will focus on helping the elderly and homeless and supporting police and fire protection. He says, I've always avoided politics, but seeing the effect that too much growth, too fast, has had on Modesto really bothers me. Okay.

Said he spent his junior high years in Mountain View and attended high school in Los Altos. Other than that, always been in Modesto. There you go. At the time, he's a mechanic with the Pacific Coast Producers, which is a cannery in Lodi. Okay. So that's what he's doing, essentially, here. They go on to say about him and his wife, Tina, have two sons, and thinking about their future, prodded him into getting involved in the city's future. He's very concerned.

I can't tell you how different. Wasn't this guy running for office like five fucking minutes ago? What happened in a minute here? Rent control and a cap on home prices would help people with lower incomes, Samuel said. He frowns on high-priced consultants, vacant buildings that, quote, become havens for drug use and gang activity and downtown revival projects the money the council seems to spend on redevelopment seems kind of outrageous he said um so yeah he's gonna get in there he's trying he's got to try to raise money obviously that's difficult and he's running for you know against a shitload of people but he's gonna try to do it hey guess what he does not win

no no he doesn't win. Six other people. Just some mechanic that works. Shit. Yeah. He's running against nine people. Only three people win. Yeah.

Something like that. I don't know what the rules are here, but some like, you know, mid-20s mechanic at a cannery doesn't win. Who doesn't, you know, no shit. There's people more sophisticated. Not saying he doesn't know he couldn't do it, but he's not not sophisticated in politics and i don't know what kind of money he's raising at the cannery i'm not sure how this is going but uh either way at this moment in time that was 2001 so they had the two babies and his older son he's married it's it's ideal it's idyllic it's a postcard these they're norman rock family, these people. Modesto.

He's even running for office to try to, just for the future of my children, I thought about it. I said, God, I don't want them growing up with blight. We can't have blight. Yeah, he's going to do something about this place. He's going to goddamn clean this place up. Well, after he loses, I don't know if the loss really kicks something into gear or what, but he has some problems after this, and so does the whole family.

The whole family kind of just falls apart in terms of how well things are going. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Both Tina and Junior develop drug problems. Oh, shit. Quickly, didn't see that coming, huh? He hates drug activity. It's the scourge of

society he said they become havens for drug use and gang activity and then later on he went hey you know those vacant buildings downtown that'd be a really good place for us to go use drugs and start a gang pretty much that's what's his choice where he starts with so i mean this leads to they're always broke their people are getting arrested left and right. It's a problem, man. They live in, throughout the next few years in Modesto, they live in what's described in court documents as shoddy cockroach infested residences. Or otherwise known as Modesto. or otherwise known as modesta yeah otherwise known as the things he was trying to get rid of that's why he's like i knew i was going to fall apart i really wanted to clean things up before i ended up in this situation that sucks man yeah and they moved frequently they would be evicted for not paying rent all the time and get shit canned from one terrible place to the next so it

was with two little kids in tow one of them was special needs that's brutal that's really tough so um the tina she started abusing pain pills after an accident she had she had a car accident when samuel was four and jonathan was three and after this she really gets deep into the pain pills she's hospitalized several times after suicide attempts and yeah it did not mesh with her mental stability well at all i'll tell you what though man if you can't get those pills and you are that addicted you want out of that horrible feeling and i it's it is brutal i feel bad for anybody that goes through that if you want to stop and can't you might feel like that too you know what i mean right that's my point yeah if you don't have it and you want to get out of it and

then you feel that feel fuck man the only it feels like the only way out is to is to end it all that and especially with two little kids you're thinking you know you feel it's got to make you feel like shit overwhelmed yeah yeah it's got to be terrible so and then samuel senior junior here i should say junior who is eldon junior senior samuel junior senior junior senior he uh he became he hurt his his shoulder at work he's doing a physical job and then he got hooked on painkillers too fuck which was easy for him to do because that's what was going on in the house so it was like you're more it's like oh now i can hang out with my wife more you know it was one of those things after that um that's when work became spotty that's when it's they're moving from dump to dump there this guy was running for office four years ago that's sued on in the modesto b and now they're

just trying to scrounge pills and moving from shitty cockroach infested place to cockroach infested place. It's bad, man. This is not going well. It gets worse, by the way. What? Yeah, it gets way worse. With the addiction and just the general bad vibe that's hanging over this entire place,

bad vibe that's hanging over this entire place junior senior the father here yeah he starts to become violent um extremely violent to the point where after the accident the car accident that he hurt his shoulder and she got in a car accident right around the same time so their addictions kind of dovetailed together junior senior and t Tina. So at one point they got a settlement check for the car accident a while later. Okay. And by the way, this happened in front of Samuel III here, Eldon Samuel III. Okay. Junior Senior soaked Tina in lighter fluid. Oh, no. And threatened to burn her alive burn her alive

because he wanted the settlement check that she got in the car accident he wanted it now they're married that's how that's how fucked up they are man that's how messed up they are on drugs though that yeah he's like you give me that settlement check and i'm gonna go get shit right now and she's like what and he threatened to burn her alive in front of his own in front of their children. Jimmy, this is insane. What? So she's already she's wet with it. It's there.

Oh, soaked her in lighter fluid. Yeah. Poured a whole bottle on her like charcoal for like a grill. Yeah. Not Ronson. Not a little squeeze bottle of Ronson. He like, you know, where you could squirt it across the room. That shit they use for the grill. Some. What that char char char broil i was gonna say it's gonna

say charcoil and i'm like it's not charcoil so either way there it is so that's what's going on in this house unreal someone's being soaked with lighter fluid and threatened with yeah burning a lot of blaze if that's not bad enough it gets worse jimmy i don't know if it gets worse but soaked with lighter fluid and threatened with burning alive. Set ablaze. If that's not bad enough, it gets worse, Jimmy. I don't know if it gets worse, but at least a parallel move. Yeah. Two years later, little Eldon III and Jonathan are six and five at this point.

point um the father junior senior drove over hit tina with the car hit her with the car knocked her down then drove over her oh my god with them watching by the way she survived it she broke her collarbone and survived somehow luckily and um then jesus christ that was four years later after that the kids are now 10 and 9 junior senior takes tina uh holds her at gunpoint uh to her head by the way we're talking like someone's got a hostage holding it to her head then he bound her with duct tape to a chair her whole body bound her with duct tape basically did like a michael madsen reservoir dogs thing with her you know fucked with her tortured her a little bit then music did a little dance yeah he said you stuck in the middle with you came on and then they did a little dance then and i don't even know how a person's depraved, sick, fucked up mind comes up with this, but he went and got Young III, Eldon III here, his son, grabs him, pulls him in here, and forces his son to urinate on his mother.

What the fuck, man? Holds her at gunpoint, ties ties her up fucks with her tortures her has her son pee on her yeah i don't i don't even know what to say about that how where do you start with that what's the psychology there i guess it's i own this motherfucker i can't go i don't know it's it's no it's like you i don't know because that's like here look how shitty look what a piece of shit your mother is. You know what I mean? And, like, doing that to her.

And then it's terrible for her. Kids, this is awful. It's just awful. I don't know. And she's terrified for her life. This guy's on drugs. He's got a gun to her head. She's duct taped to a fucking chair.

I'd be terrified. That's scary. It's so far out of control, too, now. Yeah. I think it was out of control with the lighter fluid. I think that was step one. But this is. Yeah. He's running out of control too now yeah i think it was out of control with the lighter fluid i think that was step one but this is yeah he's running out of ideas it's almost like he's like the wily coyote or something like he's he ordered the acme set your wife on fire kit and he you know that didn't work there was a it was a dud so you know then he stepped it up a little bit to running her over

with the car but you know it's an Acme car. The tire fell off. She only broke her. Now he's going on to duct tape and kid pee. This is that's too far. He he has abused them so much that he has to come up with new ideas of what to do because it's is it boring by now? Like that's how abusive he is. The level of depravity is so far gone it's yeah it's

oh this is certainly done when you hear those three incidents over a six-year period imagine what was going on in between those major incidents i mean so many beatings yeah hey yeah i mean the daily the day-to-day abuse has got to be wild here so um also young the young child here eldon the third said that junior uh quote punched him hit him beat him with hangers so he couldn't go to school because of marks on his feet and legs he beat his legs and feet with hangers dude wow that's that's crazy that's torturous. Why would you beat a child? Why would you beat a child, number one, but beat their legs and feet so they can't walk around?

What are you looking for him to do that that's the punishment for him not to do it? What was he, running in the house? Is that the punishment? What are you doing, man? That's crazy. And then also he would fly into rages, junior, senior, and he would break his son's belongings, break his toys. Including like he had like jars with things he would collect. His father would break the jars and he would also anything Samuel had built with Legos, he would destroy that. He'd come in and smash all his Legos.

And like what kind of a psychopath goes into a fucking child's room and like you're bad start smashing their legos that's crazy correct truly imagine doing that i couldn't even i can't even put that in my brain how shitty that is to do you know how how far gone is the is the control of your environment or as the respect as a father that that's where you lean to because i can tell my son don't do that and he'll if he keeps doing it i i can give him a look and the boy will stop i've never beat that kid no but this is yeah the thought of it then the fear maybe the idea that it's possible it's like yeah maybe i shouldn't or i love my dad and i want him to piss

him off either way yeah either way or hey yeah maybe i'm being kind of a dick here but this is this is like you unpredictable too everybody says this comes out of nowhere it's for tiny infractions that the day before he wouldn't have cared about but now he's jones in or he's the wrong kind of high or he's got something wrong and pissed him off and now he's gonna go off on that shit so everybody's in fear obviously yeah i would say that is gone it's it's over here jesus respect yeah it's just it's just terrifying at that point um also tina ends up being arrested for child neglect and does about 180 180 days in jail over it as well how long is that six six months yeah jesus so i mean she does that's what she's sentenced to. I don't know what she does.

But at certain times, too, child protective services were contacted by neighbors, people around, anybody who's ever seen this family basically said, holy shit, I got to call CPS. They never did anything. They never intervened. There was never any. Meanwhile, they're moving from place to place, being evicted. Cockroaches everywhere. Kid's got hanger marks on his legs and feet. intervened there was never any meanwhile they're moving from place to place being evicted cockroaches everywhere kids got hanger marks on his legs and feet this one's being doused in lighter fluid she this one smells like fucking charbroil yeah what's that that's a night what are we wearing

it's a nice perfume i like that oh it's charbroil yeah it's a you soak yourself in charbroil sticks around for six, eight years. Duck tape, having his kid pee on his mom. That's just the weirdest thing I've ever heard. So far. He's coming up with ideas here. It's just it's wild. So anyway, in addition to this, if you think junior senior wasn't losing it enough with the beatings and the, you know, crazy beatings that you have to sit down and have a brainstorming session to come up with right he must have had a brainstorm like an idea session

how about if i have oh what if i get him to pee on her yeah that'll be crazy they'll both hate that like that's how nuts i feel like he is though that feels spur of the moment it really does it feels he's he's in the middle of torturing and then just. Hey, pee on her. Yeah. I don't have to. I'll pee on you. I can't pee.

It's a desperation level of. It's not thoughtful. No, I feel like it's something to do with, though, like I will control your kid against you type of thing. I can make your kid be this disrespectful to you because I own this whole situation. So in addition to that, if that wasn't considered losing his mind enough, he begins to certainly lose his mind in other places here. Really? He begins to, in the mid-2000s there, the mid-aughts, he begins to believe that a zombie apocalypse is not. I wish everybody could have seen what just happened right there.

I said a zombie apocalypse. And Jimmy closed his eyes very slowly and did one solemn nod and went, yeah. Like, oh, boy. Here we go. A zombie apocalypse not only was possible not only probable was inevitable jimmy inevitable it was the only thing we can do is prepare for it at this point there's no way to stop it there's no way to even stop it or slow it down at this point just prepare for it and you know as much of a joke and trope that is it's really fucking disheartening that there are people that believed it.

Truly absorbed that. That's amazing. They were doing it. I saw, and this was two weeks ago? Two weeks ago. We went with Sarah. We were driving to the diner. The diner that we've gone to all the time.

Okay. Driving to the diner, and we're at a light, and there's a car turning left in front of us. So he's just stopped for a minute right in front of our car the whole side of his car he has like one of those like a zion or one of those like rectangle shaped it's the cars uh biohazard oh whatever the fuck it is got it no no he had a giant sticker that took up most of the window that said zombie apocalypse uh response vehicle something squad it said squad though then he had one on the other one then the pullback window was covered with something then he had badging all down that the whole fucking sidewall of his car had these stickers of zombie this whole it was a big themed like a wrap you buy for your car an asshole zombie idiot rap and what are you doing that's how he's driving his car

around you put that on your vehicle man i guess that that's i get that that's probably i assume a joke you know what i mean i assume this person didn't go i got my official badging today i'm putting it on the it's official now everybody if you're any zombies you come right to me because i'm part of the response team that's a hell of an identity to choose. It's weird. You've got to pull up to your day job with that fucking vehicle. You're that guy. You've got to show your coworkers that.

You're a fucking weirdo. Well, what's his cubicle look like? Let's be honest. His cubicle's a mess. It's a disaster. Blood spatter and fucking caution tape. And food remnants in the corner. Yeah.

Chicken bones and shit laying around like there's just weird things there that shouldn't be there what's happening pictures of kids that aren't his you're like why do you have these pictures did the walking dead do that or is it worse it helped it helped but there was a whole there was a whole thing with a zombie it's gonna be a zombie apocalypse it was a steampunk uh marrying of that shawn of the dead i don't know if that i don't know what what did it but there was a weird 2000s thing towards zombie apocalypse i think walking dead was a big part of it though yeah but all sorts of different zombie then zombie land with what do you remember like there was all these movies with zombie in the

title and then the fucking fucking all this shit. So zombies became a huge deal then. And he apparently bought into it, not in terms of ha ha. This is pretty funny. I'm going to put badging on my car and make that my personality. Not even that. He thought this shit was real and it was coming down. Wow.

It was coming down. It was coming down now. So we better get prepared. Tina said that Junior Senior taught his boy there, Eldon III, quote, how to kill zombies. These are his teaching methods. I don't know if this is how the Marines do it or whatever country's elite fighting force. Right. This is how the Marines do it or whatever country's elite fighting force. But he taught him by playing video games.

That's how you'll defeat the zombies. Good training. Watching zombie-themed movies. It's like the NFL. You've got to watch film on the other team. You've got to watch the tape. You've got to know what their playbook is. Oh, no, if you faint right, he'll bite on that, and then you can go left. Okay, that's how you do it.

Yeah, you got to fool the zombie. Watching zombie movies and training young Eldon III to use knives and guns in the case of he's got to defend his family against a zombie apocalypse. If I go down, boy, you're the man of this house. That's what it is. You're going to have to do that. Plus, it's going to be me and you shoulder to shoulder in the backyard fending off the zombies in the house while mom takes care of Jonathan because he's got needs. And then, you know, we're going to have to defend the fort. I got the front yard. I don't know who's going to get the back.

Is it going to be you? Son, is it going to be you? Do you have what it takes to get the backyard and cover it against the zombie apocalypse? Here's your xbox controller we're about to find out let's go here you are no no batteries are fully charged let's get on let's get it on this is so sick this is ridiculous so um they so tina went on in detail to say later what ended up what the deal was with the zombie apocalypse they said somebody asked her well at the time well what is your husband teaching your son about the zombie apocalypse she said tina said quote to shoot them

in the head and chop their head off because that's the only way to kill a zombie everybody knows everybody knows that right i mean come on what kind of an idiot doesn't know that that's what controls the body yeah right i mean duh it was a vampire a stake in the heart what are we fucking stupid where's the werewolves i have silver bullets come on get with the program i'm so mad i'm so mad get with the program um so she also i he had all sorts of goddamn problems as we can understand um they're both pretty much always high on prescription medication she said that junior senior was always playing like call of duty or zombie games or she said quote it would be a zombie video game or just killing zombies like in a game so that's

what it was she said he also played call of Duty a lot, too, because he said that was training for the zombie apocalypse. Call of Duty. I'm beside myself. I had a Call of Duty, the World War II one, because I like history shit. And it's like you do the actual campaigns. It's kind of neat. And I never thought, like, this is what it's going to be like when the zombies come. Like, I should probably really get into this.

You know what I mean? I need to know how to flank. I need to mean how to flank i need yeah germans in 1943 fucking nazi or uh good zombies it's the same thing maybe they're nazi zombies we don't know who knows we have no idea garing could come back from the dead we have no idea he could rise up and we'll have to chop his head off how does cps not do a goddamn thing how do they do nothing? If I came over to someone's house and heard one of any of the things I've just detailed, those kids are never going near that house again. Ever.

You can't be near these children. You just can't. I'm going to get them together with very nice people who will just stroke their hair and say, it's okay. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. What you went through isn't normal. It's not normal.

Yeah. Because this is fucking crazy what's going on here. Ridiculous. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. What you went through isn't normal. It's not normal. Yeah. Because this is fucking crazy what's going on here. Ridiculous. He's sitting around. So if you're in this house, the zombie apocalypse is real. There's an actual fear of it

throughout the house and we're actively training for it. That's what's happening. And also I beat the shit out of your mother, do humiliating things and also we're both addicted, horribly addicted to drugs. Never. And speaking of that, pee on your mom, please.

Please pee on her. I need to throw up. I haven't taken my pills today. Yeah, I'm going to throw up. You pee on your mom and then I'll get the rest of the duct tape. You get the charbroil and we'll call it a day. Come back here. Talk more about zombies.

Excellent. I feel horrible for these children. My heart hurts. This is fucking fucking terrible so it's obviously terrible and he began junior senior began training eldon the third when he's as young as four and five for the upcoming zombie apocalypse including having him play call of duty and play these video games which as you know we're not proponents of violent video games cause violence because they don't we've we've i just know math and numbers that's all so i look at that and i go oh yeah that's that's insane so this is uh that we're not saying that but we're just saying still i i wouldn't let my five-year-old play call of duty just because it's well above

their understanding of anything so it's not so don't make your five-year-old play that game with the understanding that, son, this is your certification in zombie murder. Yeah, but yeah, this is what it's going to be like. You better kill these people. I don't really want my five-year-old having a bloodlust at that age. They're cute. They don't need a bloodlust right then. We can wait a few years for a bloodlust. There's plenty of time for bloodlust in the world.

You really. Eventually, he's going to figure it out, but not now. He'll get a day job. He'll have it. He'll have it. Don't worry. So they would move around all the time during this period. And if you're teeny, you're sitting here like, huh, my life isn't really going well either here.

Addicted to drugs. I'm with this idiot. All he'll do is play Call of Duty with my four-year-old while no one pays the rent and we have to move all the time. So this isn't great. She also said, quote, he was moody. He was high a lot, controlling, physically and mentally abusive. So she said over time it just got worse and worse and worse and worse.

He at one point acquired somehow a 9mm handgun, which she said he kept tucked in the back of his waistband at all times. Just in the pants. Oh, at the dinner table, like Beverly Hills Cop style, just in the back of the waistband there. That's a raw gun in your ass, guy. That's all, no problem. Eddie Murphy did it with the Big 45 back then, so why not? I mean, that's all no problem just just oh eddie murphy did it with the big 45 back then

so why not i mean that's that's movie style you just stick it in the back of your waistband then you can run you can chase people right you can do like stunts and stuff then you still got it right there bang fully operational damn it neil levi's and you're shit hard it's all you go baby so you're just sitting at dinner with this guy and he's ready to just at any point reach behind his back and his waistband and empty 15 out of the clip onto onto the zombie well it's good that's where they're going to be coming obviously we've all seen the movies they can't get through the door they can't figure out the knob but if there's a window they'll just break right through it and fall through the hole you know when you're having meatloaf and mac and cheese

that's when you're at your most vulnerable so plus it attracts them yeah it attracts them that's the thing yeah they're very brains mac and cheese they don't know the difference plus macaroni when you're putting your fork in it that noise that little oh that noise it makes the squid it sounds like brains to them and they they come running from miles away. They're like, is that brain? And they're just all over it. Is that brain or good pussy? What is that?

Isn't that in a song? I think it is. Macaroni in the pot? I think that's what it is. So, yeah, there you go. So, anyway, that's what's going on in this family. We could say everybody's on edge, we'll just say. He's got a goddamn gun around all the time.

There's children. He's always got his waistband. It's not secured. He's ready to fire it off at any time. We know he's unstable, so that's scary if you're anybody in this house. They would go on camping trips in a trailer sometime. They'd have a travel trailer. They'd drag it with them?

A travel trailer, not a trailer they lived in. Right, right. They'd drag it with them, or they've got it already parked somewhere and they just go out to it. They'd go out somewhere. They'd take it to secluded spots way up in the mountains. As high up there as they could go. And Junior Senior would bring guns and knives and all this kind of shit on the trip. That way he could show the children, do like a field exercise in training for the zombies. With the weapons where they could be like you hide here.

Then you do like a barrel roll and then you pop up and like stab, stab, stab, shoot, shoot, shoot, chop, chop, chop. And then you go on to the next zombie. Yeah, that's what he's doing. So he would do all of that. So even they even killed rattlesnakes so they could cut the heads off. He could show him. So you kill him, but you got to cut that head off because like a zombie, a rattlesnakes so they could cut the heads off. You could show them. So you kill them, but you got to cut that head off because like a zombie, a rattlesnake will keep biting. That's what happens.

So you got to give it the old heave-ho there. Then at the end of a long day of zombie training, they'd retire into the trailer where they would watch zombie movies. Wow. So you'd know that this is what you need to fear. Full zombie vacation experience. It's a full training experience, really. There's people that probably would, if you started, if you had a zombie apocalypse training camp, and you had the same vibe as a co-ed kickball league, that shit would be packed.

Oh, wait, forget it. Oh my God. Heaving. You'd have, I'm sorry. I have no reservations for four months. I'm booked solid. There's so many,

they would be coming out of the woodwork. I bet you offer a group on it's two years deep. I guarantee it. You're never going to, at that point, forget about it with the group on. No one's going to, you can't even get an appointment. You'll move before you get to go.

So sold. It'd be so packed. So by the time eldon gets to eldon the third by the time he gets to you know seventh grade sixth grade he's missing days of school all the time because the family's not real you know they're real good at keeping their shit together they're not very regimented so except for zombie fighting they're regimented in that. So he would also be bullied by a lot of kids at school, and he would get in fights at kids all the time. He'd start fights.

Kids would beat him up. He had a lot of problems socially. Yeah, as you might expect. He doesn't come from an environment that breeds. This isn't a socially open environment. The stability at home is questionable. It's not like his parents are having dinner parties and there's like an example of like, oh, look at them all interacting nicely and having fun.

None of that's happening. Zombies are coming, boy. Yeah, they're coming. It's fucking, I lost the council race and now the zombies are coming. I think it's a cause and effect probably. If only I would have been on the council, I could have stopped the zombie invasion. And we can't have a schedule because zombies don't keep schedules. That's the thing.

Zombies don't tell time. No. You're on their schedule. They don't have a Google calendar. We wait. We're all on zombie time, people. And we're going to have to fucking live with that for now. So everybody do that.

So he's there. He would stay at home with his father instead, and they would watch zombie movies and play, you know, first-person shooter video games rather than going to school. And they said that the family was prepared to flee in case of a zombie attack at any moment, like with a moment's notice. They had it prepared. at any moment, like with a moment's notice. They had her prepared. If the zombie siren in town goes off, they're on that second, they're in the car, bags packed. Working near on heat, hell yeah.

They're like, it's like they have a nine-month pregnant woman in the house, and they're like, we got a bag packed, we're ready to go. You just say it hurts, and we're in the fucking car in 10 seconds. I got you ready to go. That's what they're like. So it is she said tina said that they um they packed the camp trailer with guns and knives as many as possible because if you're going to flee into the woods obviously eventually the zombies are going to run

out of others and get to you so you're gonna have to fight them off obviously we're gonna need these clearly uh tina said that plus canned canned canned food, water, extra clothing. Your general, you know, apocalypse survival. Doomsday prepper shit. But for zombies, not for nuclear attack. For like psychotic shit. She then said, and this is a direct quote, they would go up high in the mountains where we could hide from the zombies yeah but

then she went on to finish the sentence by saying because it's secluded and the zombies wouldn't get us no obviously duh but but listen when when a zombie overtakes a population they make zombies out of that population there's more zombies isn't that the thing it's exponential growth with the zombies you make a zombie he makes a zombie he makes two more zombies it's like having kids it's just eventually they're gonna find you yeah it is it's like it's like vd it's just you give him syphilis and then he gives her syphilis and that's what you get that's what happens so zombie goes viral yeah i said eventually the zombies are gonna climb this mountain there's only a couple of brains left let's go get them and there's you're gonna have every zombie in america climbing this mountain toward you so i don't know man um she also said about eldon the

third i observed he listened to his dad and he was trained to be ready when the zombies came so he is ready um tina would leave her husband multiple times, but not with the kid. She'd just leave, and then she would come back. She'd leave him with the kid. Yeah, she'd leave and leave him with the kid. She'd just take off. Which, I mean, I guess save yourself, then get them, but you want to get your kids out of there. If you're in an abusive area, a thing like this, I don't know what the best thing to do is. So I guess the fuck out of there would probably be the best thing. But like like i said i'm not going to judge about the kids or what the steps are

taken but you should probably want to get your kids out as quick as possible out of the situation too setting up a safe house is probably easier without a child without a lot of help yeah two kids hanging off your hip that might be helpful too she said though she always would return quote for my boys she said so she'd always keep coming back um always keep coming back and he would continue to be abusive i mean if you'll come back after someone duct tapes you forces your kid to pee on you at that point you're coming back for you're coming back for everything that's terrible so finally in may of 2012, they finally separated for good. So they got it.

She leaves. He takes custody of the sons. Yes. She stays in Modesto, and he moves the kids to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Wow. Away from her. Wow. So come on.

That's wild, man. I guess his father lived there eldon's father lived in near cordelaine uh junior senior's father yeah senior senior yeah that's senior senior junior senior's father senior senior and then junior junior came with junior senior to be by senior senior it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity that is

pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's the easiest way to sort it, honestly. Junior Junior is Eldon III. Yeah. Junior Senior. You get it.

Okay. Perfect. the third yeah junior senior we get it okay and so you've got she's got to assume that senior senior is going to be the like he's going to reset this right he's going to fix what's wrong i would hope that you think maybe that he'd show up and go what the hell are you talking about son you crazy son of a bitch jesus christ smack him on the back of the head what you did what to the did you suck did you pee on your mom jesus christ what the hell's wrong with you lighter fluid god damn it zombies your own wife zombies i mean mexicans sure but zombies they're taking your brain they're taking your job but listen yeah so they moved to cordelaine

yeah and i she stayed there she stayed in in California, Tina, which is crazy. They end up living in a small house there. They bounce around quite a bit. They basically throw themselves on the mercy of the town when they show up. He doesn't have money to move. He doesn't have first and last and security to play. He doesn't have any of that shit. So what ends up helping them is the St. Vincent de Paul of Northern Idaho.

Wow. Which St. Vincent de Paul, they do like a lot of homeless people. Yeah, like in Phoenix, we used to give clothes to them because they actually just do like a direct give. There's not like a Salvation Army store. They just take clothes and give them to homeless people. They do such a great job. Yeah, they're really nice.

They're nice people. So that's who they throw themselves on the mercy of, the St. Vincent de Paul. And they're front of the line because he's got a special needs son. So they need to get them housing pretty quickly here. So they move them around a little bit and then eventually at 1311 North First Street. And that's like a temporary spot that they put them in. And then they're they're getting ready to move them into permanent housing they're trying to find them a permanent housing situation

that they can deal with um 1311 north first street that feels like fucking downtown yeah that feels like it's next to like a sheltery yeah yeah next to the bus station yeah yeah i feel like there's a bus depot nearby in there there's a town hall real close you're smelling a lot of greyhound fumes absolutely but if you have to go to court it's right across the street so that's right there it's right there that's helpful so i guess junior junior had um all sorts of weird little health problems and junior senior had health problems too um yeah insomnia nausea migraines blurred vision congestion the kid had these problems really even yeah all these

problems here um also junior junior has a history of violence as well which i mean if you watch your dad do all that to your mom you probably go outside the house and recreate that or you do the heat on his own mom james that's what i mean at that point how can you have a heart towards some stranger or somebody else if you can pee on your mom but also that it's you do one of the one of the two you either go outside and do those things to the outside world demonstrate that or you are very meek and you don't do any of that shit and you're you take one or the other approach so he picked fights with people at school all the time and he used to beat the shit out of jonathan all the time oh what the fuck man which is as

fucked up as it gets one time he jesus he shoved a pencil through his jaw through the bottom underneath the soft it was through his up and it was oh what's the shit man stabbed him with a pencil there at that point he also at one point a years back, stabbed him in the back with a knife. Yeah, his brother. This poor kid. I feel so bad for Jonathan. At one point, when Junior Junior was 10, he had a BB gun, and his older brother Anthony, his half-br half brother said that they had a pet chicken once.

He started shooting the chicken over and over and over again. He just unloaded BBs on this chicken for some reason. Junior Junior. He's got issues. We'll just say they also the grandfather, while they were in Coeur d'Alene, saw Junior Junior hit Jonathan in the head and stomach multiple times, multiple times, and throw him down in anger. Like, get mad and throw him to the ground. And Grandpa didn't beat the shit out of this kid? I would have kicked the shit out of that kid.

I would have said, I don't. What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah, you are getting, before that kid's even on the ground, you're getting the back of my fucking hand on the side of your head. Are you nuts picking on a goddamn, that kid can't defend himself. What is wrong with you? That's fucking terrible. And and he that's terrible um the knife in the back incident was when he was five years old junior junior junior junior was five and john stabbed a four-year-old yeah he stabbed a four-year-old um but you also a five-year-old you can kind of you can you can

give a five-year-old the benefit of the doubt of they didn't know what was going to happen right you know like they didn't know that oh my god that would go into a part i could see that for a five-year-old but he's been playing like he's been being taught how to kill zombies so yeah he just didn't he knows what guns and knives do that's what i mean um also he's got a lot of problems at school junior junior two of his teachers said he was struggling with his grades. He's frequently absent once they move to Coeur d'Alene. And the pediatrician also said he always has headaches, various pains, and very, very bad dental problems as well, junior, junior. I'm sure, yeah. surplus store described how how uh junior senior uh bought junior junior a trench knight a trench knife with a 10 inch long blade for his birthday what the fuck is a like in the trenches knife

yeah like a close combat my god a 10 inch stab a fucking a nazi if you're in a if you're in a goddamn holy shit if you're in trench warfare with them and they come in if it's like all quiet on the western front you end up for what birthday 14 oh my god 14 no that's a good absolutely not yeah my kid's 14 i just bought him a pair of shoes i think that's nice no giant trench knife. That's what you get. Wow. Well, I mean, this is helpful because he's getting old enough now to really be formidable against these zombies. So you get him the trench knife.

You see what he can do. A local GameStop manager said that a junior senior purchased all basically violent video games and everything for him. But, I mean, he's a teenager now. That's fine at that point. Now, here is what I've told you all of this. This is all a lot of documented things. There's arrests. There's documented shit.

This is what the oldest son, the one that doesn't live with them in Coeur d'Alene and all that. He doesn't even live in Coeur d'Alene. He's been talking to his father, though. I don't think he lives in Coeur d'Alene anyway. He said that his father has kicked his drug habit for the last couple years okay and that's why he's can't find an apartment in court lane like no and then he also said he's trying to be a good father to his children he said he's starting to get his life back on track i'm proud of him because he's taking responsibility for the boys so he was very proud of him he said

the his father got the boys enrolled in school up there in Coeur d'Alene and the they would watch rent they'd rent movies and watch them together and they're a nice little close-knit family the three of the boys there and it's ridiculous anything else that you could say is ridiculous he Anthony said quote he was starting to be a good dad at that point how about get him a dentist appointment he's starting to be yeah that did that we didn't talk well he is he was starting to be a good dad at that point. How about get him a dentist appointment? He's starting to be. Yeah, that we didn't talk. Well, yes, he's going to the dentist, but I guess he's got a problem.

But that's all through like St. Vincent de Paul. They're getting help. Pediatricians that are willing to do it for free and shit like that. They don't have they don't have any of that. Anthony also says that it's bullshit that his father, his father doesn't beat anybody. He said, my father doesn't beat anybody. And my father doesn't beat anybody and the zombie thing is a day he doesn't actually do that that's not true even though everybody says he did it his wife all of his friends is for everybody except for him yeah he says that didn't happen at all he said

they're fine he said he'd dress up like a zombie on halloween but that was it i mean that's not that's not weird if he's dressing up as a zombie on halloween every year it's part of him he said it was my stepmother that was the really abusive one she was the one who was abusive to him and everybody else she did plead uh uh no contest to a charge of willful cruelty to a child in 2012 and that was this whole thing and that's when they split up and everything um she got 180 days in jail the brother anthony also said quote he maybe spanked him but that's all i know of that happened there um he pulled them away from an abusive home so i don't see why he would do that like then abuse them more basically okay um now that is that's's, and I understand where he's coming from here when you hear the whole thing, but it's not, none of that's really true is the problem from what I've gathered from everything here.

Yeah. From 2003 to 2013, his father obtained at least 562 drug prescriptions from 36 different doctors. He's doing great. Doing fantastic. Including over 19,000 doses of hydrocodone what which is a lot and tina had a similar amount in her prescription records from all these days they would find doctors that would take care of both of them that's what they would do and that is not uh i have a nagging pain issue. 19,000 doses is a fucking problem. They went to 36 doctors.

They're just doctor shopping for who will write them prescriptions. That's all it is. It's crazy. And someone who knew them said, quote, they didn't work. They got high. That's all. So by the fall of 2013, things aren't good. And the reason why I said Anthony didn't really know what was going on, and you're thinking, well, maybe in Coeur d'Alene everything changed.

Well, it didn't, because when they were in Coeur d'Alene in the fall of 2013, police were called to the emergency room because Junior Senior was unconscious. And Junior Junior was sitting next to him completely unsurprised by it the police said they're like yeah he got all fucked up on pills and passed out so there he is yeah no big deal he wasn't even like like is he gonna be okay he was just like yeah he passed out he's all fucked up i don't know seen this before four days later he had to call the police because his father he found his father slumped in the front yard all fucked up and incoherent and not being able to move around because he was so fucked up on pills and shit and alcohol and everything else so that's what was going on he took his kids here and did that so there now we

come to march 24th 2014 okay it's a monday it's a Monday afternoon. This day, Junior Junior went to the doctor and was given prescriptions that morning. He had some, I believe, for Prozac and something else. He had some prescriptions he was given. Take the day off work to get his medication taken care of. That's it. No, this is Junior Junior, not Junior Senior. Oh, okay. Yeah, Junior Junior.

The son's on antidepressants? Yeah, he's on antidepressants, which, good Christ, I think that would be as mild a thing as you could put him on, antidepressants. I would be a fucking catatonic after that, being raised like that. That's good that dad's got him seeing somebody. Yeah, I think it's more St. Vincent de Paul, though. Probably, yeah. They're like, hey, let's get you to a doctor.

Then the doctor would talk to the kid for five minutes ago you want to talk to somebody i think maybe talking to somebody would be good and then you put him over there yeah next thing you know he's got pills so his father apparently this day junior senior on the 24th is all fucked up being all weird and uh acting strange during the evening at one point neighbors saw him running around the yard looking into the air looking out into nowhere pacing back and forth then running hiding places and and then firing a gun into the air at some point a 45 to a big old fucking gun you fire a 45 in the air you can hear that for two miles. That's loud.

And that comes down somewhere, sir. Oh, yeah. Well, it's Idaho, so it probably comes down in the middle of nowhere. Fucking Canada or something. Yeah. Over by the border. Either way, though, he fires off 45 rounds and it's just like out into the air. Not straight up in the air like yeehaw.

We're talking like pow. Like he was shooting at a plane that was coming in you know 50 miles away like curly bill shooting at the moon exactly that's how he's shooting yeah you son of a bitch he's pow pow so he's doing all of this shit running around there um at what at some point here in the last week he had nailed the back door shut to slow the zombies down right what you want to do is have the zombies all come in through one entrance so you can tee off on them yeah you can they come in from both sides you're fucked they're going to triangulate it's going to be bad at that point so also windows covered with butcher paper so the zombies couldn't see the fresh brains inside obviously you want to

they can't get through butcher paper no well they won't even know it's in there at that point it's butcher paper it's yes foil would really foil them also really aggressive behaviors around anybody that saw him in the last couple days um apparently when he fired the gun off his neighbors are just watching going our fucking crazy neighbor is pacing the yard yeah he's hiding behind a bush now now he's pacing again yeah and he just fired off a 45 at the moon okay and more there's some more he's still he's still going back there apparently junior senior or junior Junior came outside to see Junior Senior and Junior Senior said the zombie apocalypse has started. It's on. It's tonight.

It's go day today. It's on. So I'm out here awaiting the zombie apocalypse. I'm strapped. I got my shit. You know, I'm ready to go. So, yeah, go get yours. So, no, he told.

So Junior Junior tells Junior Senior, go inside, please. That's literally what he told me. He said, please go inside. Like, don't stay out here. You look like a fucking lunatic. You're in the front yard. At least go in the backyard if you're going to do this. This is crazy.

So he's doing all this. He says, go back inside. Go back inside. Apparently, and everybody said to all the neighbors said he looked real upset while he was pacing. He's like, fuck, geez, like all like frazzled. Oh, the zombies are coming. Like he's making a plan. He wasn't ready.

So Junior Senior goes inside and pushes Junior Junior in the chest. Now, we don't know if this is a hit or a push. Apparently, it's a good shot to the chest, okay? And tells him, okay, this is the other thing. He said, we need to flee. Okay? Stupid fuck. Listen, Junior Junior.

We need to flee now, okay? The zombies are coming. And Junior Junior said, there's no fucking zombies coming right now. You're high. Chill out. You know what I mean? Like, I found just slumped over in the yard the other day. You're fucked up, bro. And he said, no, no, they're coming.

You need to shut up and listen to me. We need to flee ASAP. Here's what I need you to do. Strip off all your clothes and get out of the house. We're doing this naked. He tells his son, 14 year old son, take all your clothes off and go outside. I don't know why the clothes are important. I don't know why it's important to be nude.

Are they getting greased up out there? Is that part of it, too, just in case they get ahold of you, you can squirm away? Well, this is his good clothes, and you don't want to get zombie on him. That's true. You're going to kill so many zombies. So, yeah, you got to do it like if you're a mob guy cutting up a body. You don't do that with clothes on. You got to do that with your dick out.

You do it with your dick out in the bathtub. So, anyway, that's what he says to him. He hits him, and he tells him, take your clothes off and get out. So, it's at this point where Junior Junior said, no, I'm not taking my clothes off off and I'm not fucking leaving because this is bat shit and I'm not doing it. You don't realize this is crazy. So his dad shoved him again.

Junior senior shoved him again. At this point, junior junior picks up a 45 that's sitting nearby and shoots him in the stomach. Oh boy. He shoots his dad right in the stomach pow pops one in his stomach okay junior senior falls down yeah and begins to crawl toward the bedrooms areas zombie like a zombie starts to crawl yeah well that's the thing listen to this

starts to crawl like a zombie leaving a big trail of blood behind him. Okay. He, Samuel said, I shot him. Junior senior, I should say, or junior junior says, God damn it. I apologize. Eldon the third junior junior says to himself, I shot him. He didn't die. He's bleeding through this.

Is he a zombie? Oh, no. Is all of this real? Did everything come true so he said he went up then and shot him three more times with a 45 this time twice in the cheek and once in the temple that'll do it because he's a he said you had to do that to make sure he wouldn't come back to life if he was a zombie he had to shoot him in the brain otherwise it wouldn't work okay so wow first of all wow at this point he he got all the way junior senior got all the way to jonathan's room before this all happened he shot him three three more times in jonathan's room that's where he called jonathan

well look around they don't see jonathan around um jonathan is hiding under the bed at this point because he heard commotion and he hid under the bed. So he's hiding under the bed. He told his brother, get out from under the bed. And he wouldn't move because he's terrified. Yeah. So Samuel puts down the 45 and goes and gets a shotgun instead. Okay. And shoots his brother under the bed.

Oh, my God. No. He then reloaded the shotgun and shot him bed. Oh, my God, no. He then reloaded the shotgun and shot him again. He shot him 10 times, Jimmy. He shot him 10 times with the.45, with the shotgun. That's not enough, though. That's not enough, okay? He then dropped the shotgun and grabbed a nearby knife

and started stabbing his brother under the bed with the knife. Then he threw the mattress off to get to him because he's still under the bed. So he threw the mattress off under the mattress on top of the bed frame, I guess, to defend himself against zombies. Jonathan had a machete under there. So he takes the machete. Nope. And begins to hack at his brother with the machete through this wooden slats of the bed where the mattress are now jonathan was killed by the gun

shot so none of he's not alive for any of this thankfully um he's killed they said by the second or third gunshot that that's what killed him and it all came very quickly for jonathan thank god but he he hacks at him somewhere between 50 and 100 times with knives and machetes just i mean as much as you can through the gaps in the wood panel there um so um apparently at one point he had shot him he had shot him and um he uh at one point he thought he was alive that's when he hit him in the back of the head with the machete and split it open it's fucking horrible he waited until in his words that his brother stopped talking and was quiet meanwhile that happened a long before this long before this

and then he calls 9-1-1 junior junior yeah calls 9-1-1 calmly and very quietly and you know just very matter-of-factly tells him I just shot my brother and my father. So, you know, come on over. So they show up. He's standing at the front door covered in blood, covered in blood, arms, pants, shirt covered in blood, because at some point he had pulled his brother out from under the bed and placed him across his father's legs, basically. brother out from under the bed and placed him across his father's legs basically so his father is leaning up against the wall because he leaned him up to shoot him in the head so he's leaning up against the wall with his legs out and then his brother's laid across his legs like he's like laying across his lap yeah basically so it is fucking horrible they they find that there the

one officer in his police report the first thing thing in it said, quote, blood everywhere. I'm sure. First thing in his police report, he said there's blood on the floor, on the ceiling, blood everywhere. It's just a fucking bloodbath. It's the most horrific thing they've ever seen, any of these people. The autopsy said just the number of wounds on Jonathan's body are uncountable. 40, 50, 100. Your guess is as good as mine, basically.

A lot. They said the majority of the stabbing and cutting wounds were inflicted after he had bled to death from the gunshot wounds, which I guess is good. Yeah. His wrists were fractured. One was nearly severed from the chopping. One of his hands was nearly severed off. He suffered wounds to his legs from close-up shotgun blasts. Shot him in the legs.

And there was a large cavity in the back of his skull as a result of chops to the head. He basically chopped out a canyon, which is awful. Now, Junior Senior, remember he's clean and straight and narrow and doing his thing he had at least six narcotics in his system at the time six when he died here all police found tons of pill bottles all

over the house to kitchen cabinets hidden places all over the fucking place they said that he had soma ambien selexa hydro cozo hydrocodone lorazepam, and alprazolam in his system. It's a lot of painkillers and valium. That's a lot.

And also he had a, quote, blackout level of ambien in his blood. Wow. So if you take enough ambien, you think the zombie apocalypse is actually happening, especially if you're mixing it with multiple other drugs like hydrocodone. Oh, those are the ones he was prescribed at that point. What he had in his system was Celexa, Ambien, Benadryl, hydrocodone, and a blackout level of Ambien. Unbelievable.

He's got so many tranquilizers. Yeah, you can't mix Benadryl,codone and ambien together those are valium he's got lorazepam in there too and and fucking celexa which is just a mood stabilizer i believe but who knows when you mix it with other things it's not meant to be taken with all this shit i don't think probably no he is literally uh tranquilized and put to sleep, but he's still awake. That's what I mean. I don't know if it's a- He has made himself into a zombie.

Yeah, he's obsessed with zombies so much, he turned himself into one. Wow. Yeah, that's why he believed in zombies, because he's like, well, I'm a zombie. Yeah, and that's why when he was shot he didn't i mean he's sure he's bleeding but he doesn't feel it as much as anybody else he's like to crawl away it turns into survival mode because his brain isn't working like yours would or mine would at that point and he's convinced his son that zombies exist he's put enough pills and drugs in there to make himself into one then he gets shot and he behaves like one exactly it's fucking crazy now i'll be real honest

with you right here at this point in time yeah if set if if junior junior didn't kill his brother yeah if he went in there shot his father a bunch of times and then said come on jonathan got him out from under the bed took him out in the front yard and said we're safe now and called his grandpa on 911 I'd go this kid needs a fucking hug because you know he's terrified of his father I would be on his side 100% you did what the fuck is killing your brother have to do with anything

your dad didn't even get to him to convert him to be a zombie no what the fuck man so the cops get there they pat him down they place him in handcuffs he's like i you know he just said on the phone what he did they didn't ask him any questions or anything like that they just put him in the car this is like you know 9 30 at night this is all going down not even the middle of the night or anything he's taken to the police station they put him in an

interview room one cop stays with him while the other one goes and fucks around they come back um they have him take off his bloody clothes one piece at a time they take photographs of the clothes they take photographs of him covered in blood they get swabs from all over him remember this is 2014 so it's all modern they ask him if he needs anything and he wants water so they get him some water uh they said that that the officers told him they were trying to make sure they preserved any evidence that might have been on his clothing. That's why they're taking it. And he's like, okay, I get it. They gave him new clothes afterwards and all that kind of shit.

They then kept asking him if he was all right. You all right? You doing okay in here? You doing okay? They photographed, swabbed him. It took about 40 minutes to get him all processed in there and everything if you've ever watched any interrogation videos on youtube you know exactly what i'm talking about then they read your rights and we'll get into that protocol so there's two officers in the interrogation room uh sergeant mccormick and detective wilhelm

wilhelm is the lead interrogator and the other guy's taking notes basically so um they uh they end up talking to him and they they ask some uh some oh my god detective wilhelm was also his school's resource officer so he knew him from school which is weird too he was the school's officer yeah he knew the kid from school he asked some preliminary questions the regular bullshit he said have you you know did you eat have you slept at all with all that kind of shit samuel did not know his phone number or address which is a weird thing but he moves around a lot too and they've only been there for three months teenager you gotta know where you live you gotta know a phone number teenager all you're doing is talk to people on the phone. So he said that he suggested that he always hurts all over. So he's in pain right now like he always is.

But, you know, he's fine. They said, what did you have for dinner? And he said that he had two hot dogs with the bun and then two unbun hot dogs around noon. That's what he had. 14-year-old growing boy. Yeah. He said he got good enough sleep because he takes medication for his sleep so he can go to sleep now first we'll talk about this at first

he said that his father killed his brother and then he killed his father trying to protect his brother that's what he said that's the first story and they went yeah no we're not buying that one he doesn't have any blood on him. You've got all of it. You got it all all over you, buddy. Then they said that he told them that he hated his brother at that point a little later on. And he said later even, quote, that he did not care about, feel bad about, or anything about killing his brother. Didn't give a shit. Oh, boy.

But then at one point he also says about his brother i can still hear him screaming so maybe he started to get a little bit of uh something i don't know some remorse yeah well they sit him down they talk to him uh about everything uh and we'll get into the detail of that by the way because i have a very detailed interrogation of his but give you an overview first he He said that his brother, he hated his brother the most. And that's what we blame for his anger and his frustration. Cause he had to, his father's a fuck up and he's always got to take care of his brother. And he's tired of taking care of his brother.

And he's not doing it anymore. Basically. That's it. He's no, he's no fucking Johnny Depp and Gilbert grape. We'll put it that way. You know what I'm saying? He's had enough climbing the water tower.

Yeah, this is bad. This kid would have left Gilbert grape in there to burn with the mom. You know what i'm saying he's had enough climbing the water tower yeah this is bad this kid would have left gilbert grape in there to burn with the mom you know what i mean they would have fucking left him in there so he talked about playing grand theft auto 5 because they were asking him what do you like to do you like to play video games oh you do all right what's your favorite video game they're just making conversation with him and uh this is very telling by the way not that the video game caused this but it's telling of what he would be relate to his interest yeah put it that way uh not saying

grand theft auto 5 i'm saying who he played with in grand theft auto 5 who you choose to play with in grand theft auto 5 says a lot about you sure it does you can play with the regular guy regular dude is in all of them then you can play with franklin the black dude who starts out living like in the cul-de-sac area there in the hood and you got there's there or you can play with crazy white trash ass trevor who lives in that trailer in the middle of nowhere and he's filthy and dirty he's like he's in his like his whitey tighties and they're all gross you can be that guy he likes to play with trevor that's his guy yeah the scumbag guy he said that he likes to play with trevor that's his guy yeah the scumbag guy he said that he likes to play with trevor because trevor has anger issues and likes to shoot people and he said that trevor quote is kind of cool so oh boy trevor didn't influence him i don't think he just that's who

he relates to that's who he likes to him yeah he said his dad beat him often and his dad's been taking medication and talking about zombies. And he said, you know, my dad fired the pistol outside and the dispute happened. So he pushed me. He hit me twice. There's a dispute, by the way. He says hit. And the police, when he's doing the writing his formal statement, they make him change it to push.

So they change hit to push because it sounds better in a in a police report as far as sounds less self-defensy at that point yeah hit hit sounds like you're in danger push sounds like hey calm down buddy but it also feels provoky you know what i mean yeah yeah provoky but not enough to shoot right not shooty provoky so shooty provoky i don't think those have been put together ever so yeah he said he shot his dad and then um all of that shit he said quote i love him but the next time he came after me that's self-defense right that's what he said to the cops like he just looked that all out yeah get a lawyer is what you need i just want the the story i'm not trying to build a fucking defense for you

that's self-defense, right? But that's a kid. I love him. But then the next time he came after me, that's self-defense, right? Like, he's like, I'm good, right? Which you would be if you wouldn't have butchered your brother, you fucking idiot. Right. So he said that, yeah, he then went after his brother who was hiding under the bed. He said he blamed all the family's troubles on Jonathan's disability, in his words, and said that the stress of it fueled his father's addiction to painkillers and drove his mother away, which made him hate Jonathan.

He said, that's why my mom left, because she couldn't take care of you anymore. Not that they're both on pills and her husband was duct taping her to chairs and having her kids pee on her maybe that's why but he saw it as he drove everybody away it's weird how could she give up on us like that i mean yeah truly and a roll of duct tape and some pee and she leaves what so what i mean yeah sometimes you got to get threatened to be burned alive it happens big fucking deal it's ridiculous no that's yeah of course she wanted to leave and run away for her safety he then said a quote about jonathan if he wasn't there we'd be a happy family no um yeah man he said he had no remorse and he had contemplated this for months oh he said say that that's not self-defense at all man no that is very very bad um he said his

father was crawling toward there toward the floor on the floor and he was worried that his father was coming after him and was a zombie so he decided to shoot him a couple more times three more times to be exact then described using a shotgun knife and machete to kill his brother he had cuts everywhere all over him um yeah the investigators wrote eldon physically demonstrated the manner in which he held and used the machete the demonstration showed a violent and severe action used on the brother so this is fucking crazy obviously this whole thing is by the way um an hour ago is this where you thought this was going, everybody? Stunning, man.

Did you think that the kid was going to fucking kill all? No, right? You figure the father's going to butcher everybody, right? I think it was the point there. Yeah, the desperation of having no more drugs or some shit. Something. Or the mother, out of desperation, Tina would have killed him. Right, for what he's doing to the kids.

Yeah, something. So his brother, Anthony, says, says quote eldon was never sane we all knew that he wasn't exactly right but we never thought that this would happen so well that's what he says um he also says anthony says that his father yes my father was violent when he was high on drugs but he never hit me or my sisters because he has sisters too from him he never hit us when he was high on drugs but this is also a lot later in life and he's also on drugs and anthony's saying he's not on drugs he says that he never talked about zombies or beat anybody everybody that knows him knows all he talks about zombies and he had a zombie preparation trailer and his ex-wife said his whole fucking life was zombies for 10 years so that's not really true and uh and then she he

blames it all on his on his stepmother her ex-stepmother uh he said quote he may have spanked him but that's all i know of what could have happened there he pulled away he pulled them away from an abusive home come on this is ridiculous poor saint vincent de paul people yeah they said invested so much in this oh they've been trying they've been really trying to help them these all these people he said quote we this is the the guy who runs it quote we are surprised to learn of the weapons that were used in this crime as they are prohibited in all of our programs we like the rest of the community wait for more information so we can begin to understand why this happened. Then the St. Vincent de Paul guy said, I always found Jonathan to be a funny kid.

I didn't really know their older son. He was very quiet, and the dad was just doing the best with what he had. These are just nice people who don't want to say anything bad, is what that sounds like. So they said that they've never in 68 years of operation had anything like this happen in any of their units and grief counselors are available if anybody needs them that's what they said so they originally charge junior junior with two counts of first degree murder that's the original but after a hearing a preliminary hearing a court found that the state had not established

probable cause on premeditation for the murder of the father so he's charged with first degree murder for jonathan second degree murder for junior senior so they're thinking that the the the father's murder was just uh an opera crime of opportunity what he really wanted was to get rid of the brother that's what it seems like, because the weird part is it seems like the fathers, even the cops, don't discount that it was sort of self-defense. Right. Maybe over the top, but if this psychopath was coming at you, you know you need a gun. Right, yeah. Maybe that, but then, yeah, obviously he told them that he planned for months to kill his brother.

So that's different. They talked about all the drugs that he had in his system. Obviously, they said that Junior Junior was prescribed the Razapam, which is, you know, ambient. Yeah. Razapam. That's value. It says in the court documents, which is basically Ativan or Ambien. I don't know.

It's either way. You're probably right. You know more about that shit than I do. I don't know. It's either way. You're probably right. You know more about that shit than I do. I don't know shit about pills. Pam is just the, I've said it before, the words of the pill tell you what it does. And the Pam part is the fucking relaxer part. That's the part that chills you the fuck out.

I thought there was a Pam. There's a Pam that's a Valium. That's what he was taken to when he said i take medication to sleep they uh they said that he had his blood drawn or he never had his blood drawn they did a hair sample on junior junior three weeks after the murder to see what was in his system and they said that uh it doesn't show the quantity of drug usage uh like a big deal but it says that there's a it shows chronic use of that. Doesn't show how much, but he's been doing it for a while. Yeah. His hair sample contained Benadryl and Celexa, which is what he was prescribed, the Celexa.

And also Junior Junior was prescribed Prozac the morning of the murders, but there's no indication from the hair sample that he had taken it yet. Whether, yeah. They might have told him start tomorrow or something. So they said that a hair sample probably wouldn't have been sensitive enough to pick up a single dose of Prozac anyway. So they don't know if you can blame one dose of Prozac for this. That's a wild. Yeah. No shit. that's a that's a wild yeah no shit they said that he they said the doctor here said that because

junior junior did not uh did not have evidence of his prescribed drugs in his hair and he does have celexa but was not prescribed celexa he said probably those drugs have been taken by another person and replaced by celexa so they took his shit which his dad had the lorazepam in his systems, and they gave him here, take the Selexa, which was what his dad was prescribed, not him. That's what he was taking. So they're saying his dad was switching out his pills on him, probably. She said that Prozac and Selexa are both SSRIs, which elevate serotonin levels in the brain. High levels of serotonin can cause serotonin syndrome, which can cause muscular problems, anxiety, restlessness, agitation, delirium and hallucinations.

So anyway, so he's arrested. Where the fuck do they keep this kid, too? He's a he's he's a child. He's a child. But he's done a terrible, horrible, violent thing to another child. So they don't want to put him in juvie with the other kids, but they can't by federal law, can't put them in adult prison unless they have. I read a lot about this for this case.

Federal law says basically if you're going to keep a minor in an adult prison, you have to keep them someplace where they have where they can't even hear the other prisoners. Really? Because otherwise the male adult prisoners can abuse them verbally constantly. So they're not even allowed to be in a place where they can be seen, heard. He can they can hear they can see none of that shit. It has to be like they're in another facility. And the facility they have, they said, doesn't have that kind of they can't there's no place in the prison. Yeah, that's like that. And it's an adult prison. It's 24 hours a day. So prison officials would rather keep him in juvie. and it's 24 hours a day, so prison officials would rather keep him in juvie, but a judge is like,

well, I don't want him stabbing somebody in juvie, so it's a difficult thing. What they do is they put him in solitary confinement in adult jail for more than 70 days. Holy shit. After they arrest him. Usually you have to be in adult prison and then try to cut your roommate's throat while they sleep to end up being in fucking solitary for 70 days.

That's more than two months. Two months in the shoe, man. That's wild. People that start prison riots don't go in solitary for 70 days. That's fucking crazy, man. The punishment of a month in the shoe is like that'll bug a a shit hard criminal's eyes right out of their fucking head oh they got two of them they go crazy man they go fucking crazy for that so he apparently was in for 70 days then they sent him for six weeks to a juvenile facility and said

he didn't have any trouble there and uh then he ended up back in the adult prison again so it's it's pretty fucking crazy his public defender said he's being punished before he's even convicted he's losing sleep he's starting to hallucinate and he's angry since he's been in solitary i've seen his physical and emotional and mental state all deteriorate yeah i'm sure 70 days in solitary that'll happen to anybody that's how you torture people you just just stick them alone forever. And that's how it works. So the judge said he can't in good conscience keep him in the county juvenile detention center where he has spent six weeks recently. He said he's got to be moved back to the adult jail where he since he's charged as an adult and he can go there and he must be isolated from the from the other inmates, which is a constant nuisance for the jail staff. They say it's basically impossible. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed

her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener.

Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. His public defender said it's put him in juvie. It's humane. It's reasonable. The jail and the juvenile detention officials said they would prefer to keep him there as well and not put him in adult prison. The court appointed guardian representing his interest.

That's how no count Tina is at this point. She's not even his guardian right now what about uh senior mom that's senior senior mom anybody anybody but they got a honestly it's probably better off that he has somebody court appointed at this point i don't know what teen is up to but whatever um they said they uh he he called his adult life at the adult jail all secluded. He called it atrocious. He said it's less it's a step less than we're affording the prisoners at Gitmo. So he's literally saying enemy combatants have nicer, nicer accommodations in this child that we have here.

Naked 10 man pyramid is still better than what this kid's going. Yeah, well, that was Abu Ghraib. That wasn't. Oh, it's not the same thing. That was Iraq. Oh, you're right. I mean mean i'm sure they got a pyramid or two going over there we just never saw any pictures of it don't get me wrong so they also said that they have to think of the safety of the other kids uh they said i think there's a very small risk but a very grave danger of keeping him with other boys uh the judge said basically he's open to any ideas for where to fucking put him.

That's what he said. Anything. Somebody else. When he went to juvie, he went by Sam to try to keep other boys from learning who he was. Basically. Hey, I'm Sam.

Didn't want to go by Eldon because Eldon stands out. I read that. Oh, you're Eldon Samuel. So he just goes by Sam. There's three of those guys on the planet. Yeah. Three Eldons.

Yeah. Well, there's the other one is planet. Yeah, three Eldons. Yeah. Well, the other one is Eldon Campbell, the power forward for the Lakers for years, and then there's these two. That's the only Eldons that exist, or three, senior, senior. Yeah. But it didn't last.

They figured out who he was. They said at the end, the majority of the kids know who he is. They all find out in jail. You can't hide who you are in jail. Samuel here, junior, junior, was overheard by a staff member discussing why he was incarcerated, which is a violation of the rules. And they said he broke quiet time, but most of the time he followed the rules. So he was there.

In there, he had his own room with a bed and a toilet and a sink. He would get out at 6 and he would be allowed to eat breakfast uh there and um all of his meals were segregated from the other juveniles so because that's because he talked about why he was in there so that was his punishment uh so he was around other boys though during class they had a pe time federal law requires that public physical public education continues while you're in custody if you have a child you have to educate them which seems reasonable uh school work concluded by 2 30 spent the rest of the day alone in his room except for physical activity breaks um he's in a 10 by 12 foot um medical holding cell with a metal oh no this is the other one yeah this is the uh in the jail he's in a 10 by 12 foot medical holding cell with a metal bench, toilet and sink and with windows that face the booking area, which is busy around the clock.

He's in the fucking bullpen. He's in the drunk tank. His attorney said it's just a small room. Yeah, he eats alone. He has to shout to get the attention of the guards. He gets an hour outside for recreation a day. That's it um it's it's it's shitty basically it's a shitty place to be it's they'd have nowhere to fucking

put him they don't have they don't have accommodations for a highly murderous teenager they just don't have it here they said we're limited on where we can house him i can put him next door to a bunch of men or i can't put him next door to a bunch of men and we're going to be yelling at him all night the The jail's a dark place sometimes and inmates yell at each other to instigate them. He's young. It's the safest place in the jail for him. Short of building a new wing or something for him. We rarely

get juveniles. Well, yeah. They would have to cover the room's windows with butcher paper, just like his dad. Oh, no. Just like home. Yeah. Oh, just like home. Home sweet home. To keep him out of the sight of adult inmates because they'd be showing him his cock and tell him they're gonna fuck him in the ass and everything else threatening his life and all that kind of shit you know that's how that would go i love how they they prison they hate pedophiles unless you get somebody who's like 16

who gets put in there then they'll fuck them all day long and it's fine they're all pedophile and they're all yeah it's hilarious so not, but you get what I'm saying. Not haha funny. Ironic. Ironic funny. It's ironic. So they they said whenever they had to move him, they had to halt all of their print inmate movement. They had to put everybody on lockdown when they had to move them anywhere.

So huge pain in the fucking ass for him to do that. Now, pretrial, there's some stuff he wants to get suppressed, like everything he told the cops. He'd like to get that now pre-trial there's some stuff he wants to get suppressed like everything he told the cops he'd like to get that all thrown out every word i've ever said can we do that is that possible um so here's what they said to him and this is the way they did the miranda waiver form and stuff is very kind of cocky the way the cops did it this is detective wilhelm all right well if you're okay let's get down to why uh why we're here to talk to you today. Is that OK with you? And he says, yeah. Detective says, I'm going to scoot forward a bit so I can go over this with you. OK. Says, OK. He says, we didn't go over this in the office, but ninety nine percent of the kiddos in my office,

we give them this warning because sometimes we talk to the parents about what we're going to talk about and sometimes we won't. OK, so I got two of these so i'm going to give that to you i'm going to give you that and then i've got one and i'm going to explain it to you okay so this is a here i've got one for you too and he gives it to the sergeant and he says thanks and then he says this is a miranda warning you know like how you see on tv you know like these cop shows they're just tv shows let me tell you they're made up. But they slam guys up against the car. And Samuel nods yes.

He said, and they're slamming them up against the car, and they read these rights to them. And it's kind of at the same time. Sometimes they slam them up against the car, put them in jail, then read them as rights. So it's not anything like this, all right? Like basically, you've seen all that. This is just real calm. We're going to do it. You know how they're mean to him about it. I like not us. Let's do it.

He said, these are just some rights that everyone's entitled to. Like if I were to talk to my boss or someone that came to my house and said, man, I need to talk to you about this. I probably wouldn't. But I could pull the but I could pull out these Miranda rights. And you know what, Officer Joe, I don't want to talk to you. And this is why. Okay? Does that make sense? All right.

That's a weird way to say you have the right to remain silent. He's 14. He's not fucking six. Yeah, that's what I mean. He's seen TV. He's seen movies. He says, although zombie movie society is broken down by then. I don't know how many arrests are taking place.

The detective said, okay, I'm going to read them to you, and I'll just read them in order, okay? This is Miranda warning. It says, first, you have the right to remain silent. Number two, anything you say kind of will be used against you in a court of law. Third, you have the right to talk to a lawyer and have them present with you while you're being questioned. Good so far? And he says, mm-hmm. He says, okay.

So, fourth, if you can't afford to hire a lawyer one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you wish so in full print there it says and he says you're a smart guy do you understand each of these rights as i've explained them to you yeah he's like this is just a casual formality we're good and he says you understand these rights and he says mm-hmm and he says one through four and the kid says uh-huh and he says all right would you mind signing here and he grabs the pen and he says you sure yeah and the kid says yeah and he says uh eldon can you circle yes for me too if you don't mind yes and he says oh i didn't know you were a lefty look at you see what i mean this is real left hand this is where you

can really kind of brendan dassey a teenager you know what i mean because they can really kind of Brendan Dassey a teenager, you know what I mean? Because they're this kind of shit. And he said, did you have left-handed handcuffs? And he looked at him like, what are you talking about? And he said, I'm just teasing you. They don't exist. Yeah, exactly. It's like Herc on the wire going, all the hats I see, the bills are in the front and the back.

How did you get one where it's on the side? Just get a regular hat and turn it sideways. So the sergeants laughed and samuel says after that quote i screwed up he's not in a jokey mood no they're laughing and he says i screwed up and uh the uh detective said i messed you up didn't i go ahead and sign i'm sorry because he screwed up the order the form here he says i'll keep my mouth shut can you do me another favor favor how about the date can you date it for me uh so he's telling him you what do you want to rewrites the date the 14th okay he says okay so hang on to that for a second now that was the tough part so uh now that you

understand those rights and he says yeah and he goes and as i explain them to you okay it's because i did such a great job that's why you understand them that's what he said it's because i did such a great job is this guy just think he's a fucking comedian or is he just an asshole he said his handcuffs and i'm doing a left-handed handcuffs because i did such a great job and then he'd go yeah that's funny like yeah i mean he's it's probably works on a 15 year old i tell him a lot of people i'd tell him to shove his cheer right up his fucking ass and get get to what the fuck you want to get to so i can leave if i'm not under arrest cocksucker but if you're 15 it might be different you might be willing to joke about left handed handcuffs with somebody not buying your fucking yeah timeshare fuck you not doing it pal

he said i don't like dad jokes move on let's go what else you got in the prolodex he said it's because i did such a great job secondly this and it's it says having these rights in mind do you wish to talk to us right now i love how he always says it says yeah like it's not me it's the sheet here so it says this is that they gotta follow his instructions these are the rules this is like shoots and ladders there's rules i'm not an agent of this i'm just reading the monopoly rules yes i have the money i'm the bank but i don't like i don't have any extra advantage over any other players he says uh do you want to talk to me and my boss about what's going on tonight

and samuel said right now yeah no we'll make what like next wednesday good for you okay uh they said yeah let's that's why we're here do you want to talk and samuel said like where will i where will i stay yeah and he said just right here we'll just chat right here and the other cops said yeah we're just going to chat in this room and then the main detective said no we're going to keep you uh no uh we're not going to keep you all night we'll just chat right now so this is just uh because you have you have the right to talk to me you have the right to talk to me you don't that's not what the right said no that's a way to confuse a 15 year old he said like i said i have the right to talk to you neither of those are true he said the wrong thing then corrected it to something else that wasn't true

wow the only thing you said is he has the right not to talk to you nothing else that's what his boss sitting right there not say the sergeant go home go yeah this is i'll take i'll take it from here because you have you have the right to talk to me like i said i have the right to talk to you so this is just saying having these rights and do you mind do you want to talk to me right now that's exact words i didn't fuck the reading up that's exactly what he said verbally to a 15 year old i don't know what i just said and i said it we got enough problems figuring out where to put this fucking kid let's not fucking muddy the waters further if you were a confused moron teenager

i'm not trying to defend the murderous teen i'm just saying this isn't how you go about it there's there's tons of evidence you don't have to trick him you don't have to do it you're gonna blow this so the kid says right now and he says yeah then like he's got junior junior this is how he doesn't really get it he says like how much time will it take? Yeah. Who fucking cares? You just shot your family. What's the difference of how much you carved your brother up with a machete like a rotisserie chicken? What are you talking about? Unreal.

Who gives a shit? The detective said it won't take long. Then the sergeant says 30 minutes to an hour tops is what I imagine, which is not true. Then they said then the detective said, quote, Yeah, I've got stuff to do, so we can just chat now. I've got stuff. Like he would get up and go, I'm in the middle of a murder confession, but nah, I've got to go pick some shit up for my wife down at the-

Kids got a recital, James. Can't miss that. I've got stuff to do, so we'll do it real quick. And Samuel says, sure. Here, that's Junior Junior. Detective says, okay, do you want to do that um something it's i guess it was unclear in the recording do you want to circle yes for me then you can put the date and he says yes and then the sergeant says lefty man i love it again with the left-handed

who cares um he said i know then the detective said i know and did you see how good i did what the fuck he didn't talk to him while he was circling he said i kept my mouth shut while you were signing okay i'm gonna take this real quick okay and i'm gonna sign at the bottom all right now here's the interrogation the during the first two hours of the interrogation 30 minutes to an hour they asked questions without challenging his hands challenging his answers like they said he said, my dad shot my brother. So they went, so your dad shot your brother? And he said, yeah.

And he said, my brother, my dad killed him. And then he said, I didn't shoot my brother. My dad did. It all in separate times in the first two hours. And they never questioned. They were just like, okay, so tell me again how this happened. And he would tell them. They go, okay, that's what you do.

Lock them into a story. Make them tell it three times. And then tell them why it's bullshit so he says at this point um then the detective after two hours said okay let's do this listen we you've been really helpful and you've been honest about everything we've talked about and uh he nods his head and says yeah the detective said and for the most part, I think you're being honest and you're the only one that knows that. You were there, correct?

And he says, yeah. He says, there's no way that your dad drug a shotgun and had a machete with him and then you had a pistol. There's just no way all that happened. What really happened to your brother? Just tell me.

He didn't go in there. Your father shot him and hacked him up, and then you hit him. None of that happened. Come on. And Samuel says, what do you mean? And the detective says, listen, listen, listen. Come on. Samuel here, junior, junior, says, pistol, I don't know where the 9mm is.

The detective takes that, ignores it, and says, listen listen we're super good at our jobs okay super good that's a that's a strategy that detectives use to tell them how much i've worked 200 homicide cases i've been doing this for 20 years like you can't beat me this is the first time you've seen a dead body not mine you're new at this i'm not so yeah he says uh we're good super good at our jobs okay we're good at gathering, putting pieces together like a puzzle. That's why they call them detectives, because they detect things. So we're going to figure it all out. So I just need you to be honest and tell me, how did your brother get shot?

Not some story about a shotgun and a hatchet and all that other crap. The real story with your brother. What happened? Okay? Samuel Jr. says, with your brother what happened okay um samuel jr jr says with my brother yeah and he says yeah just tell me the detective says you're gonna feel better when you tell me that's another strategy you're gonna feel better how would your mom feel about this your grandma whatever person you're embarrassed about shaming uh you're gonna feel better when you tell me i don't want uh i don't want to hear you. It doesn't make any sense.

To be perfectly honest, in detail about certain things and then kind of, well, your dad and he had a machete and a shotgun and there's a 9mm floating around while he shot in the belly crawling around. No way that happened. So how did your brother get shot? And Junior Junior said, quote, I pushed the curtains over so he breaks and the detective says okay now he's the okay guy and junior juniors talking he said i had the machete and i just stuck it on the wall and i said come on and get out and he wouldn't get out detective says okay so samuel says i just cut him so um then he continued to explain how he hacked away at his brother and uh the detective said okay you're tracking right because we went

from your dad uh was dragging all this stuff around and then you just threw the machete at him hey save yourself which was a total crap story and we admitted that so now we're getting to the truth of what happened i get it like you know now we're getting to the truth of what happened. I get it. Like, you know, now we're getting there. You're doing well. So Junior Junior says, my dad, he hit me. And they said, okay.

And Junior Junior said, I shot him. The cops said, okay. Junior Junior said, I shot him three more times in the head. And they said, okay. And then the sergeant said, was that all one after the other? You shot him in the belly three times in the head right after each other? Is that how it worked? And Junior Junior said, I don't know.

So they said, well, did he crawl up the hallway like you said earlier? It sounds like that, and he said, yes. Samuel said, yeah, and they said he did crawl up the hallway, and then Junior Junior said, yeah, after I shot him, once he went into my brother's room. And the detective says, now, remember, now, just listen real quick. Sorry to interrupt, he says to the sergeant. He said, but like I said, these guys, they're experts in what they do. So we're going to figure out the story anyway, whether you give us the right story or not.

But it's going to help you. You're going to feel better. And it's going to help me to kind of help you if you tell me the right story or not but uh it's gonna it's gonna help you you're gonna feel better and it's gonna help me to kind of help you if you tell me the right story it's gonna help me to help put you help you help put you in prison for the rest of your life if you tell me the right story that's what you should be hearing if you're in an interrogation it's gonna help me because my boss is sitting right there he's gonna make me employee of the month i'm gonna be i'm gonna get a parking spot out of this like a good one one, like right up front. So the detective says, and you've been good with one part of the story I can get. That's how I can figure that you're not being honest about this.

So no more crap and no more leaving out details, no more lies. So answer his questions, okay? Now, that's the interrogation. So he spills it. They're a little wishy-washy with reading the rights but he did have the sheet and I think he understands what the fuck he's talking about he's not a stupid kid he knows what he's doing

he knows what his rights are he gets it I think so if you can play Grand Theft Auto you are not a dummy no just to figure out what to do you'd need to be have some brain power here so and his teacher said even when he would miss time he could make the work up and he could do it. They said they were actually impressed with his ability to make work up.

So he's not stupid. He's seen TV. He knows what the rights are. And he also read them all from the sheet as they went over them one at a time. He they in court, they intend to file. They intend to include Junior Junior's previous abuse of his brother in the as motive and all that. Not motive, but as part of the whole thing. So that would include testimony from their grandfather that he saw him hit Jonathan in the head and stomach multiple times and throw him to the ground the summer before. And also the brother who said he stabbed him in the with a pencil in the jaw and all that

kind of shit. The evidence of prior assaults, quote, tends to establish malice, intent, premeditation, willfulness and all elements of first degree murder, is what the prosecuting attorney says. He said it also rebuts the likely contention that Mr. Samuel acted unexpectedly or because he watched too many violent video games. So like even the prosecution's like this shit ain't video games. That's the weird part. The prosecution is never the one that usually says it's the video games that caused the murder.

It's the defense that says that. It's a bullshit defense. And then somehow all the really law and order people latch on to it even though their people the prosecutors are the ones who say that's not true it's just the weirdest fucking thing it's just i get it though people your brain wants to explain things it just does it wants to fill in gaps and if you have child teenager i've seen teenagers they don't kill their families the one i've known the ones i've known. This one killed his family. How do we fill that in and get there, you know?

You're looking for anything. Yeah, it makes sense. And your brain's got to be tasked with doing that. That's it. They said his attorney, Junior Junior's attorney, said that the sibling conflict the previous summer, not relevant at all. No? Not relevant. Boys fight.

They're a year, 11 months apart in age fight their year year 11 months apart in age what brothers 11 months apart in age don't have a fucking physical fight once in a while come on he said quote whether eldon grabbed his brother's arm and threw him to the ground or whatever he had on a he on occasion hit his brother has no material connection to the charge at hand okay that's what they say they ask him to the charge at hand. Okay. That's what they say. They ask him, the judge, to suppress all the statements to police as well as evidence gathered against him after the arrest, including his clothes. Yeah. Everything with the blood on them. Just all evidence that you have.

Can we just have it so there's no evidence in this case? We'll just put this. Yeah. We want to have. We don't want to explain it. No evidence. And we'll just put this 15-year-old here and we'll say look at him he's he didn't do it he's a kid and then you'll go yeah he did and then there'll be no evidence and the jury can decide that'd be great listen all this

evidence makes my job really hard so if we could make it much easier i'd like it making it much more difficult can we just say that um so the other things here they uh they wanted a different jury pool they wanted a jury pool from outside the county because this apparently got you know you can imagine a slight bit of publicity for the son killing his zombie apocalypse believing father it just it happens locally if you're nearby you've heard you've heard of this probably. They said that he wants to have – they're talking about a defense about his mental state. And the public defender said he's been accused of patricide and fratricide. He's clearly got some psychological issues. But the Idaho legislature abolished the insanity defense in 1982.

So, yeah. in 1982. So, yeah, they actually, in this case, his lawyer unsuccessfully challenged that that law, that change in the law is unconstitutional and didn't work. So there you go. Trial comes in here. The defense theory, they say Samuel killed his father in self-defense and that he killed his brother in a rage. And it was manslaughter, not murder.

So we're talking not guilty for one and a manslaughter for the other let's get him out in five that's what the defense is saying here that is nuts prosecutors have a lot of forensic evidence weapons blood spatter spent shell casings crime scene photos his admission his call to 9-1-1 the lengthy late night interview with the police um pretty much everything you can imagine is stacked against this kid here so the defense does create and paint a pretty vivid portrait of a dysfunctional family that is a fucking disaster here going on uh yeah they also they have the defense team has thousands of pages of documents from school, health care providers, child protective services, jail records, police with all of the interactions that his parents and him and all of this crazy shit that's gone down, basically. But the defense attorney, if you're a defense attorney and you're given your spiel.

Yeah. And in your opening, you say these four words. Yeah. You might as well just go home because you've lost you've lost he they actually said the defense attorney said in the beginning of his thing keep an open mind hear me out that you're done keep an open mind says to a human whether it's true or not and you should it says to the jury what i'm about to tell you is ridiculous, but believe it anyway. That's what it says.

So you're fucked immediately when you say that. What a terrible, dumb shit thing to say to a fucking jury. Why don't you just say, my client's guilty. Yeah. But, hear me out. But, let's talk about it. That would have been better. Yeah, they tried to say, Samuel resisted his father's warnings that zombies were coming for them and they needed to flee.

He told him to strip off his clothes and get out of the house. And he hit him. And he said he didn't know what to do. He shot his father in the stomach. And then, you know, when he went in there, he shot him twice more in the cheek once in the temple to make sure he didn't come back to life as a zombie, obviously, and get him. Because if you who's he going to be after? You know, he's going gonna go right for junior junior he said this was an act of self-defense and illustrates how the boy was isolated and

influenced by his father's delusions he said he trained him for the zombie apocalypse this guy believed zombies were real wow okay great he still killed his brother brutally and viciously like i said i'll give him the dad I'll give him the dad. I'll give him the dad. His dad's such a fucking psychopath that if you saw that your whole entire life and you told me I felt fear of my life and shot him, I'd fucking believe you because your dad's done a lot of crazy shit that would make me fear for my life. But then he went and upped the ante and changed the whole course of everything and took away any semblance of sympathy that anybody could feel for him. And did he think that like now that dad's dead, I have to take care of my brother? Absolutely.

Is that what he thought? Absolutely did. One hundred percent. Who's going to take care of him now? The burden is going to be on me. In reality, it would have been either a relative or the state. He's a child. So he would have never he wouldn't have seen his brother ever again if he didn't want to.

Probably wouldn't. You know, it's fucking crazy. So, yeah, they talk about him being shot. All they said, John, Jonathan was the defense attorney said he just loses it. He snaps talking about his behavior. He goes into a rage and shot his brother as well. That's what he did he said uh he said that jonathan was shot five times with a shotgun five more times with a 45 before he was stabbed and

hacked with a knife and machete tons of times he says yes he killed his father and brother but they're they're saying that you know it should be manslaughter they're saying it's you know premeditated murder this is ridiculous man uh The state said that he attacked his brother because he hated his brother. He blamed him for his family not being together. He told police he just didn't want his brother around. techniques to coax him into making subtle changes in his account of the killings like they change the word hit to push in the written report and things like that um then the defense attorney says this is a 14 year old boy who's just been through hell i don't disagree he is a product of the environment but fuck man certainly you can't but you can't no you can't. No, you can't do that. You can't. No. So enter Dr. Beaver. Oh. He's a psychiatrist, which obviously is a misuse of his medical training.

He should be. Dr. Beaver, I mean, let's be honest. You blew it, sir. Oh, my God. Jesus. That's amazing, right? You picked certainly the wrong one. Come on.

Come on. Your billboard's all over town. Yeah. Need a check? I'm Dr. Come on. Come on. Your billboards all over town. Yeah. Need a check. I'm Dr. Beaver. Who's going to know more about it than me? Oh, my God. Haven't we had a Dr. Beaver Beaver doctor before?

Maybe we possibly have. So Dr. Beaver interviewed Samuel and various family members. Beaver interviewed Samuel and various family members. Also underwent, Samuel here, junior, junior, also underwent a neuropsychometric examination four times for about five hours where he was subjected to various tests. And the doctor reviewed records and placed significant weight on transcript summary from the initial interview with law enforcement. This is his opinion, Dr. Beaver. Quote, it has nothing to do with vaginas. This is his opinion. Dr. Beaver. Yeah. Quote. It has nothing to do with vaginas,

which I was shocked. In conclusion, based upon my knowledge of Eldon Samuel, multiple interviews and records interviewed, reviewed, I'm sorry. The formal testing completed. It is my opinion.

Eldon Samuel, then 14 years of age, did not appreciate his Miranda rights and voluntarily waive his Miranda rights. He had significant limitations in his ability to understand his Miranda rights and voluntarily waive them compared to an adult. He shows strong evidence he has even less capacity than would be expected of even a 14-year-old. Further, he consistently demonstrated in formal testing, interviewing, and in review of the transcripts not to understand his right to remain silent and, of particular concern, his right to have legal counsel present. Unfortunately, law enforcement did not explain or even attempt to evaluate how well he understood

his rights. Rather, they capitalized on Eldon's young age, immaturity, anxiety, and isolation to induce him into waiving his rights. Further, Dr. Beaver, who's a licensed psychologist, provided this other testimony in here. He said, quote, they said, let's talk about your opinion on whether Samuel had sufficient capacity to appreciate the character and quality of his acts. Dr. Beaver said, well, first of all, anytime we go to reflect upon our actions or activities, it's based on many pieces. One piece, of course, is what our life experience has been up to that point. That helps us make decisions about what we think is going to happen, what appropriate, what is inappropriate.

He said in this case, you have someone who has a history of being traumatized and abused. You have him consistently being exposed to violence, whether it's video games, whether it's movies. So he's in that circumstance. He knows this is a high risk time because his dad's quite impaired. History has been that when his dad is impaired like that, he's going to get a beating or worse. His dad's firing off a handgun. He takes that from him and within the context that his dad, as he's described, punches him several times in the chest confronting him. It's within that context that the gun gets fired in my opinion he lacked the ability at that time to understand what

he was doing to weigh or contemplate what was going on at that moment he was reacting to a very threatening situation i don't disagree no and then they go and what about his brother yeah they said um they said do you have an opinion on whether he's capable at that time of premeditating, weighing the pros and cons of whether or not he should shoot and kill his brother? Answer, after the shooting of the father, in my opinion, he was in a very highly charged emotional state. In talking with him, he talks about feeling as if he was outside of his body watching what is going on. He doesn't talk about reflecting about what's happened. In that regard, I don't think he's had the capacity to form the intent and to weigh what

his actions were going to be. Again, I think he was reacting at that time. So the doctor's on his side. He also says, in my opinion, he wasn't capable of deliberating as we think of it. Again, I think he was reacting. He was reacting within a context of what he'd been through in terms of violence that he had lived through and been involved with.

The only reason that I am hesitant at all about a part of the deliberate part is that my opinion that his beliefs in the zombie apocalypse had some impact on some of the things that happened that night. Which, yeah, the doctor's like, I mean, zombie, you know, that's what happened. So the jury here comes back. They go in.

This is like a couple week long trial. It's a long trial. They go into a lot of shit. The unraveling of this yarn. This is crazy. This is how do you what do you think? How do you figure it out? How do you get to a point that's fair?

It's yeah, this is super complicated and i don't envy anybody involved it's an onion and i don't know how to get to the middle i really don't so there's a lot of a lot of tears involved that's all i know yeah well the jury comes back and uh they find him guilty of second degree murder for his father which is the high charge they wanted manslaughter the defense and for his brother it's whether it's first degree or not they find him guilty of first degree murder for the brother as well so they agree they tried him for everything and got him for everything so um the defense during sentencing obviously they are trying to get as little sentence as possible um he's a doctor said nobody should have got should have to go through what he went through.

This case has been a tragedy since Eldon was five years old. Yes. Um, so they talked about everything like that. They said since he's been housed in a different place with regular meals and proper nutrition and exercise, he's gained 40 pounds. He's thriving. He's thriving. They said he makes eye contact with people now and he isn't he isn't all withdrawn and weird like he was when he first arrived. He's thriving. He's thriving. They said he makes eye contact with people now and he isn't, he isn't all withdrawn and weird like he was when he first arrived.

Cause he's already fixed. The staff member said he was all withdrawn and weird. I mean, he's like a fucking feral thing in a trailer. It's crazy how the fuck he was living. So he's seen his, his kid brother and his dad dead. Of course he's going to be a mess.

And he did it. Um, and he, well, I mean, before that, even just the whole way he's living is fucking horrible. They said he's been working on earning his high school credits and been recognized by the staff for his good behavior.

So they're basically all the staff members to testify that he's like he seems like a different kid than he was when he came in. He's really together now. He tells the judge himself, I'm not the same person I was two years ago. I've changed, which 14 and 16 is a big difference he said i've changed physically spiritually and emotionally this is not an excuse for what i did that night i lost my dad and my brother johnny my own little brother he says that he has dreams that they're both alive sometime sometimes and he asked the judge quote i only ask for mercy and righteousness that's what he says so the prosecutor says society needs to be protected from Mr. Samuel for a period of time.

He does say he is a product of his upbringing, but he also committed heinous crimes. And, you know, it's got to happen. Yeah, I get it. The judge said that, you know, he considers his risk of future violence, including testimony from psychiatrists to teachers to everything else. He has reactive attachment disorder. Even the state psychiatrist diagnosed him with that, I guess, from parental neglect as a small child. That's like when you don't hold a baby. Yeah.

And you just leave it. And then it's all, yeah, you have to hold a baby. Say it again? Attachment disorder. Wow. I think that's when you don't hold your baby, if I. Reactive, say it again? Attachment disorder. Wow. I think that's when you don't hold your baby, if I'm not mistaken. He's rad? He's rad, man.

Kid's rad. Yeah. And they said, and if he felt threatened or concerned, he would react violently. The court then, this is the judge, said, let's go back on the record. This case has weighed very heavily on the court. I don't even want to tell you how many times I've woken up in the night and thought about Samuel. I don't want to tell you how much I've been. This is all his stammering, by the way.

I've spent deciding what to do with the case, trying to make sure what my options are, making sure that I understand what my duties to society are, what my duties to Eldon are. I will never forget the evidence in this case. I saw most of it several times. I have all of the psychologists in the case finding reactive attachment disorder. I have two defense experts testify today that he has had a high risk for violence in the future if confronted or trapped. That's consistent with the court's expert. The case has been a tragedy since Samuel was five years old. Nobody should have to go through what he went through. The results of that life that are what we are dealing with today.

The results of that life are not necessarily Eldon's fault. Then he says, Mr. Samuel, you're going to have to live with the fact that you took Jonathan's life for the rest of your life. I like how he didn't mention the father. You're fine with that. But your brother, that was fucked up. He said, you needed to you. You're going to need treatment for a long time, he says. He said, in considering the factors and goals of sentencing in the state of Idaho, at least for adults, the overriding goal of sentencing is to protect the public.

There's various ways to accomplish that. He said, I can do it by specific deterrence. I can do it by general deterrence. I think specific deterrence does have some effect, at least during a period of incarceration. It may not have a lot of effect post-incarceration. I can do it through rehabilitation. And this court believes in rehabilitative justice. I've done rehabilitative justice for a long time, and I can do it by punishment.

It would be tempting to punish Mr. Samuel for the death of his brother. What that child went through in the last few minutes of his life has to be absolutely terrifying, especially considering his inability to regulate his emotions through no fault of his own. I don't put a lot of weight into punishment. Mr. Samuel, you're going to have to live with the fact that you took your brother's life. And whether you think it's fair or unfair, whatever you think about it, it's always going to come back at odd moments. You're going to have those dreams for a long time about what if your brother hadn't died. It's at least understandable while not excusable with respect to your father, given his history of treatment of you.

So the court is predominantly left with the issues of protecting society and issues of rehabilitation. Testimony here pretty much universally said you're going to need treatment for a long time and that when stressed, you're at a substantial risk for violent outbreaks. That's probably what happened here as you acted in response to that. That goes to the issue of protection of the public. may fuck off, sentences him for the second degree murder, a term of 15 years with 10 fixed, so 10 before parole,

then concurrent with you, sir, may keep fucking off, a 20 year fixed for the first degree murder. So at least 20 years he's going to have to do. After 20 years, the Department of Corrections will evaluate whether he's a good candidate for parole or whether he's in prison.

Time should be extended for like another five years or whatever. So, yeah, it's it's fucking interesting. So they are going to they have to move them or and they still have the problem. They don't know where to put them. They have to put them in an adult facility within 48 hours of being sentenced, but they don't fucking have anywhere. adult facility within 48 hours of being sentenced but they don't fucking have anywhere and the judge said he isn't comfortable with him being continued to be housed with the juveniles and he's not comfortable sending him to adult prisons that don't have facilities so they're literally saying well we'll put him in county for a minute and then we'll figure out in that little cell we made for

him and then we'll figure out maybe if we send him out of state maybe another state has a facility that's better that has a separate thing because otherwise they have to build them a building basically otherwise the federal it's federal law they can't go around it so they even the judge or the defense attorney asked can't you keep him in a juvenile facility till he's like 19 or 21 and then move him do a mixed sentence and the judge said no so um his defense attorney said this is not a bad kid we can't look at this we can look at the circumstances of his life and we can understand why it happened. He's got there because he was a traumatized kid. And, uh, they said he'll be isolated and housed wherever.

So his mom showed up for court, by the way, Tina came in for court. She testified about all the shit that the father did. Yeah. I mean, she, no one knows better than her. She testified in a horrid detail about terrible things so um she said that uh um he to the press she said that he witnessed his father threatening to kill her on multiple occasions and used to try to protect her and she said i would give my life for my son eldon he's all that i have left i will never give up on

my son so she said that to them so you think oh boy this kid he's all that I have left. I will never give up on my son. So she said that to them. So you think, oh, boy, this kid, he's really trying to turn it around. He's doing great. Well, hold on. In 2018, they do an interview with somehow this got out there. But one of the juvenile inmates in there, basically, he goes to the to the prison barber. Yeah. Eldon does before Junior Junior before his trial before yeah before his trial this guy said quote he asked for a Hitler haircut of all the people I've given haircuts to

that kid weirded me out the most he asked for Hitler made me look like Hitler for court I'm literally doing haircuts for some really awful people that kid scares me the most that kid weirded me out the most that's fucking crazy so um the only i'm quick on appeal here he basically it's all about his mental condition there's certain things about the miranda rights too they go very into specific detail exactly what the cop said if he's pointing to it written correctly is that okay for him to kind of ad lib it a little bit and all that kind of shit so they go over that um they go over his the uh the mental shit a lot too they talk about dr beaver and uh you know all that shit that they

give that they weigh that enough on there um basically they said look his miranda rights were fine he understood what the fuck he was doing. They brought up other things that he had done where if he can do that, he understands this. Basically, he's fine. Um, they said that he alleges his lack, his age, immaturity and lack of education amplified the deficiency of the warnings and the coercive force of the officer's tactics. At the time of the interrogation, he was 14 years, eight months, and the evidence showed he was able to work independently on schoolwork and had no trouble communicating. He was in the eighth grade, although he was often absent from school.

One of his teachers testified they were amazed at his ability to catch up. So they said appeal denied. Keep fucking off. So he got credit for time served. So 2034 is the earliest for him. Unbelievable. and that is court lane idaho everybody and holy shit a weird case is that a crazy one or what i i feel bad for obviously for jonathan but like the poor kid went through so much and and had he not just gotten

into his head oh my god i'm gonna have to take care of him now, and it's going to be so difficult, just the two of us. If he hadn't got that in there, I don't think he would have done that. Maybe not. His dad maybe forced that thought into his head. Poor kid. And I don't want to come across, by the way, like I was coming down on Anthony, the older brother, by the way, because he loves his father, and he's trying to protect the memory of his father.

Now, what he said wasn't true so we're not going to say well you know we want him to feel good so we're going to say bullshit but he's allowed to say that stuff because he's trying to defend his family and that's fine but we have to be factual no offense to you i'm sure you're been through terrible pain and we feel bad for you honestly really productive his environment and probably uh was rooting on his dad really hard i got an uncle that's a fucking disaster i root for him so hard but eventually i had to just fucking stop rooting because i'm tired of losing it's like being a cleveland browns fan yeah it's terrible yeah you can't do it anymore this is just abuse now it hurts god damn it hurts you know and that's

what it is and it's it's fucking awful i hope tina got her life together i really do i hope she's not being soaked in lighter fluid or duct taped to a chair and having a kid pee on her and just not on drugs really is what it is. I really hope she got that under control because that shit is, man. That's the key to all of this was the pills. None of this happens without pills. Right. Right. They destroy you. You know, I don't know if you let zombie apocalypse take hold to the point where you actually like it's go time right now unless you're on a shitload of pills all the time.

Some sort of substance all the time. All the time. So anyway, that is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. And that is a wild goddamn story about the Samuel family, young junior, young junior, junior, his father, junior, senior, and their grandfather, senior, senior. It's very, very heartwarming tale there. So if you like that story, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're listening on. Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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But he's also had scandals, including his gambling scandal, which there's conspiracy theories that tie in his 1994 retirement and his father's murder all into his gambling and all that. And we'll talk about his affairs and his paternity suits because there's a shitload of those. He fucks. Michael Jordan fucks. Let me tell you something, everybody. And also his gigantic elephant choking divorce settlement that's just huge. We'll talk about all that. What is a guy like Michael Jordan giving a divorce settlement after all those years of 20-something years of marriage?

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That said, Jimmy, I need it. Hit me with the names of the greatest people in the world who have no thoughts that there's actually a zombie apocalypse hit me with them now this week's executive producers are corporal carl kirschner arthur lane jordan bennett matthew willer or is it willer or miller carl anderson diana price sean taylor and jason bremser thank you guys so much. Truly, you're amazing. Other producers this week also are Donna Greeley, Mr. and Mrs. Rabbi Shmuelovich, Arnold Ziffel. And the Mrs. She's around this week.

Artie Ziffel, is that Simpsons? That is the pig from Green Acres. Oh, I thought that was John Lovitz on The Simpsons. He went out with Marge in high school. Sorry, go ahead. It's possible. Peyton Meadows, Tyler Frazier Music. I imagine that is Tyler Frazier's music. Unless his last name is also music.

Frank the South African Bird Washer. Happy Hour checking in in Bloomfield, Connecticut. Patricia Sabrar, Sabral? Sabaro. She owns the mall pizza chain in airports. She's doing very well. And she's in Portugal.

Very well for herself. That's how well she's doing. She's retired to Portugal. Not bad. Good job, Sabaro. Happy birthday to Mitchell. He doesn't have a last name, but it's from Johanna Lair. Mara Fechner, I imagine.

Janice Hill. To you. Aaron Olin and his J-Kid jerseys, James. He has a shitload of them, evidently. Wow. Alyssa Munn, also. Clay Thorson's dad is having a fucking crazy surgery where he has to- Oh, no.

I think it's a cochlear or something, but they're going in his brain. Oh, cool. They've got to drill his brain and- Fucking awesome. No, it's worse because there's stem cells involved. It's an amazing surgery. I don't know what it is. I'm going to have to ask Claymore about it.

He's going to be fucking bionic after that. He's going to be able to see through walls and shit. That's going to be awesome. He's super jacked about it. Kay Bartlett, James Warren, Susan Rydissel, Shailene, Sebb Mjornstedt, Orla McAvoy, Megan Roundtree, Gia Aslandis, what the shit, Ashley Olsen, Colby Harvey, Lisa Pace, Annalise Prasser, Miss Koch, Christine Anson, Ethan with no last name, Ashlyn Knirth, Phillip Leftwich, Tara Wallop, Terry Pitcher, King Ellerin, Jillian Price, Molly Meyer, Amber with no last name, Amy Morrison, Lovely Linda, Melissa with no last name, Ellie O'Leary, Kayla with no last name, Tony Eakins, Kelly Phelps, Tony, Tony, and also Tony. Angie Langstrom, Aaron Crabtree, Michael's brother, Kelly Phelps, I said that, Jamie with no last name, Rebecca Rampley, Anthony Brinkley. Dorian Darien. Darien Brighen. Brighen.

Brighen. Katie Reberg. Non-league nomads. I don't know who they are. Nathan Winton. Anya Walsh. Cade Hodges. Jessica Sullivan.

Adam with no last name. Ruth Sandberg. Julia Feynman. Nope, that's just fine. Why'd I add a man on the end of that? What a disgusting thing to say out loud. Isaac Frazier. Annie Forchetti. Hey'd I add a man on the end of that? What a disgusting thing to say out loud. Isaac Frazier, Annie Forchetti.

Hey, I think I got that. Amanda Forchetti also, and Annie. Amanda J. with no last name. Emily Allison. Jasmine Brill. Double Panhandle. Caveman Luke. Kylie Nelson.

Crystal Lovedall. Lovedall? Oh, Lovedall. Jesus. Shirley Weiland. Lauren Brennan. Travis Webb. Wes Wyszynski, Sarah Hawthorne, Hawthorne? Hawthorne

probably. Julia Fine, Jeff Miller, Kara Lee with no last name, Cicely Brianna Cameron, Timothy Big 12. That's what that is. Jimmy's brain broke there. Why is there numbers? That's not right. Big 12 Richards,'s what that is. Jimmy's brain broke there. Why is there numbers in there?

That's not right. Big 12 Richards, Victor Gonzalez, Tamara Ayers, Edward with no last name, Katie Carter, Catherine McIver, Christina Zucker, Emily with no last name, Kelsey Rollins, Jenna Wieschenreiter, Wieschen, Wieschenreiter, oh boy. Caitlin Ettinger, Kendall Connell, Connell, Connell Kendall Connell, how would you say that? Connell, I think. Cynthia Carroll, Alexis Loving, James Shearer, Gretchen Beatty, Patrick Leon, Jeff Thomas, Chris Odom, Joe and Nicole George, Greg Haney, Jamie Agosto, Adrian, nope, that's a Darius Kling, Kylie Beasley. Molly Beal. Chris, what? Chris Stroop.

Andrea Nguyen. Nyguyen. I don't know. Flo Hiltz. Probably. Zachary Berry. Don Vleck. Vlecek.

Danielle with no last name. Christian Anderson. Scott R. Javon Giles. Serena James. Andrew Stevenson. Anne Becker. Tracy Vigas. Kayla Jadayi. Krista Souters, Colleen, Michael Monroe, Madeline Torres, Tyler with no last name, Michael Cutler, Giselle with no last name, Keith Connors, Alan Natalie, Natali, Sweetie, oh boy, Sweetguy07, I don't know. Tarrant Haley with no last name. Trent Gwynn. Lucy Cunniff. Ashley Barks. Barks.

Michaela Moraquin? Maraquin. Maroquin. Christina Rice. Casey Little. Alex Lampkin. Jeff and Natalie Stinson. I imagine that's Jeff and Natalie Stinson.

Unless Jeff's got a Natalie middle name. Taylor Nicole Anderson. Raspberry Wasabi. Tyson Watt. David Mattson. Ashley Horesco. Julie Colt. Daniel Parker, Josh with no last name, Jennifer Heinlein, Helen Hammond, Samantha Burton, Ganesha, Wolfoak, Cecily, nope, that's Cecil, DeBeers, Madeline Hamilton-Ville. Fitz Ryan for Ryan Fitzpatrick. Ben O'Rean. Arch Demon 007. Tracy Hayden.

Aaron Hummel. Dusty Tatum. Ava Adele. Greer with no last name. Sounds sexual, Dusty Tatum. It does. It really does. Dusty Tatum.

With your Dusty Tatum. That sounds like a sex move. I gave her the Dusty tatum and it was fucking she liked it though no she was into it it was weird very very accommodating chicks don't like the dusty tatum mariam mcadams claire dirk deakram deakman uh philip short jeff page paget uh leah ruse monique monique mccandish chris matherly k Kieran S., Jessica Lynn, Dylan Stepp, Concrete Mama, hey now, Jay Ricard, Keston Altman, Zoe Lewis, Grace Darling, Marie Miville, Michelle Duncombe, Nathan Argaard, E.T., Peyton Larson, Justin Tomlin, Christina Arbogast, Ryan Bensley, Mary Stratton, Gary with no last name, Aaron with no last name,

Kat Randall, Jamie Barber, Tobias Munter, Melanie Bandy, Drew St. Germain, Taylor Mowbray, The Grinch Precciato, Josh Gambler, James Evans, Pugliato, Bruce Yu. Okay. Josh Gambler. James Evans. Carolyn Heintzman. Todd Gillanue. Carolina Johns.

Caitlin Kessler. Kieser. Kelsey Neal. Fraser Frasiska. Frasiska Schlott. Olivia Berry. Josh Jessup. Tabby with no last name.

Chris Dewing. Christine. Christine Graham. Ashley McCormick. Root Patel. And Cyrus and all of our patrons you guys are amazing thank you so much thank you so much everybody for all that you do for us and for everything there hope you enjoy the patreon episodes if you'd like to follow us on social media very easy to do that all you need to do is go to shut up and give me murder.com links to everything right there or just Google small town murder podcast hosts. That's us. We'll be here. We're the only ones.

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