Small Town Murder - #311 - Lust, Death, Insanity... And A Potato - Bagdad, Arizona

Episode Date: August 26, 2022

This week, in Bagdad, Arizona, a man is attacked, in his front yard by a masked assailant, who immediately flees the scene. The only evidence at the scene is a little blood, and some shards of potato, baffling the investigators. His new, young bride thinks that her ex-husband must be the killer, but it turns out, she's been shacking up with a local insane man, who works with her, as a nurse's aide, but claims to be a doctor, lawyer, fighter pilot, and CIA agent, as well. He also claims that jail is controlling his thoughts, with a large machine, and writes letters to everyone, including the President of the US to try to get some relief. Will they execute a man, who is so clearly nuts? How do you use a potato for murder purposes?Along the way, we find out that the desert is an unforgiving place, that stupid, unattractive people can sometimes be swayed by smarter, more attractive people, and that you should never include a potato in your murder kit!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us and all aboard the murder train. Here we go. Pulling away from the station and of course a crazy ass episode. We're in Arizona today, Jimmy. Oh, great. It's never normal when we're in Arizona and it's places we know. So we give a little extra insight.

We'll get into that very quickly. First of all, shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your tickets right now. September 10th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Almost sold out now. They are going down to the wire. Get your last tickets and get in there and see us. We're packing that thing, selling it out. Going to have the biggest show we've ever had, and we're excited for it.

So get in there right now. And then as well, get your tickets for September 23rd in Tampa at the Improv. Two shows that night. Those are going to be two different shows, too. So if you want to see both, you're going to see two different shows. And then the next night in Orlando as well, two shows at the Improv. So get your tickets for those. We can't wait to see you. Shut up and give me murder.com. And Patriot. So get your tickets for those. We can't wait to see you.

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You get all the crime and sports, all the small town murder. This week, which you're going to get for your Patreon subscription, you are going to get for crime and sports. We're going to talk about Brett Favre and his dick pics and some other sports sex scandals, like a female golfer who allegedly forced her caddy to impregnate her or he would lose his job. Some weird NBA things with some strippers there's a lot of weird stuff we'll talk about and then for small town murder we're going to talk about two of the most terrible people ever charles eng and leonard lake and kind of do it in their own words because there's plenty covered about what they've done and it's horrible what they've done it's arguably as bad as anybody it really is like a you could make an argument

they're worse than ted bundy there's there's a lot yeah we're going to talk about it tortures too much it's it's crazy they took real pleasure in it which has made it extra gross so we'll talk about that kind of in their own words and we'll really make fun of them a lot so whenever you get all get all of that and more patreon.com Crime and Sports. And at the end of the regular show, you get a shout-out, of course, where Jimmy mispronounces your name. That said, I think it's time to sit back, Jimmy. Let's do this. Clear the lungs, shall we? And shout, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. What do you say? Let's go on a trip shall we yeah we are going not very far a little up the road here well a lot up the road about two hours and 15 minutes away from phoenix to baghdad arizona oh boy baghdad arizona and that is not baghdad with an h like iraq this is bag this is baghdad right that's it. B-A-G-D-A-D, Arizona. It's about three hours and 15 minutes to Las Vegas.

So essentially, it's in the middle of goddamn shit nowhere. Las Vegas, Nevada or Las Vegas, New Mexico? Las Vegas, Nevada, certainly. It is in the middle of nowhere. It's a place that you pass and you go, whoa, people live there? Weird. Also, that's a weird spelling. Yeah.

Did they spell it wrong? Oh, they probably don't know any better. That's what you think. They have no idea. And you're like, is that actually a town or was that a mine like 100 years ago and now it's abandoned? But it's actually a town. But it's not really a town. It's basically like West Virginia back in the day when the coal company would own everything.

That's what's going on here. There's nothing privately owned in this whole town. It's all owned by the mining company. Everyone's homes are owned by the mining company. Still? Absolutely, to this day. This place is a company town through and through. I mean, I don't know if they pay in scrip or what, but it's bad.

Now, the the name we got to talk about baghdad the there's several uh different you know theories uh local lore explanations one is that it's just a misspelling of baghdad iraq because they thought that that symbolized some sort of riches back in the day like iraq and gold and some shit so this place is gonna be thriving well originally they thought there was gold and silver here and uh so that's why they dug mines and then it turns out it's copper but and they're still pulling it out of the ground but several cheaper so it's not quite gold several people tried to make a go of it in the gold and business and it

didn't work here though got it and then another uh the the local lore that everybody says is that it's not anything to do with iraq it's actually a father and son had a small scale copper mining operation in the late 1800s and they would the father dug out the ore and the son loaded it into bags and when a bag was full he'd ask the dad do you have a bag dad oh it became bag dad that's what that ask the dad, do you have a bag, dad? So it became Baghdad. That's the local lore that everybody says. That's probably accurate. That seems more accurate.

It really does. It's depressing. Yeah. Honestly. Another Baghdad. I feel like people back then wouldn't know Iraq existed that lived here. So more common to that. Right now there is 1,888 people here.

Oh, Jesus. Quite a few. The income is high because you make a lot of money, but there's nowhere to spend it or do anything. You're hours away from anywhere. It's $88,676 is the median household income. They are crushing life. Yeah, it's $25,000 more than the rest of the country. 67% of the jobs are in quote mining quarrying and

oil and gas extraction oh it's normally 0.6 of the jobs here it's 67 so god is it freeport mcmoran yeah mcmoran freeport mcmoran they own the entire town and that literally you go to the website and the about us isn't about the town oh Oh, we have parks. We have this. It's just we're a mining company that started on this date. Fascinating. It's wild. So the mine does open pit mining around the clock. Wow. It's been going on.

Median home price here is $219,000. So it's low compared to Phoenix. It's like half the price. And they're making a bunch of money. Yeah, that's it. The town has everything owned. Then they have a small bashes grocery store yeah local and a couple other little businesses and that's it because it's

there's nothing really going on a couple reviews here they're all really good everybody loves this place for some reason work eat work how can you be upset it's it you just you're you have no time to think or be upset we don't let the internet get in here makes people sad all the all the bad words all the negativity people going out doing things seeing movies and stuff like that just gonna make our people sad they need to know this is the life they lead forever until they drop dead in the mine. That's it. Shit out the ground.

We'll pay you. You go support Eddie Bash's family. There you go. Four stars. Baghdad is a nice place to live with calm surroundings because there's nothing there. It's the goddamn desert. That's what's there. Calm surroundings.

It's just like the death scene of every movie where somebody's lost in the desert, where there's eagles flying and cawing and shit. It's just the end of the good, the bad and the ugly. It's a place to have a showdown. That's it. It's quiet because that's your death gurgle. Oh, shit. Quiet atmosphere and well-mannered people. There are good and bad aspects of Baghdad like any other place.

But besides being disconnected from large cities and readily available resources it does have a great infrastructure besides having nothing it's got a couple of things many free facilities and it's safe except for occasional rattlesnakes yeah nature is the most dangerous thing there and and how frequent is occasional i need fucking calendar periods there i think a week once a week a lot i bet you're right yeah i think you have like a like a like a rattlesnake shovel and just in case that you keep around your house so you can chop their heads off and you're pretty can you know um things to do very quickly nothing mine mine copper and then the only other thing i found is rock hounding which is going through around the areas where the mines are and around them and collecting minerals and rocks for

your own collection not to sell just like oh look here's some quartz collect on your windowsill there you go i found that out there really wow? Wow. Oof. That's pretty nice. What were you doing? Walking? Walking. It's going to work. Or look at Frog Rock, which is a big rock that's shaped like a frog. That's what people do. It's bleak.

Bleak. It's bleak. This is as bleak of a town as we've ever covered. We've never covered a company town. You're not even allowed to own your house there. That's how shit this town is. So that said, let us talk about a horrible murder. And this one.

Somebody got frustrated here, James. Crazy to think about, isn't it? Nuts. And guess what? It's a guy who worked in the mine. There's people that work in mines involved here, but it has nothing to do with mining. It's very much. It's not like nothing like that.

All right, let's get into this now. We have to go back in time to November 12th, 1987. So it's a good murder time, the mid-80s here. This is good. We have to talk, first we'll talk about a married couple. Okay? Yeah. We have David.

David Johnson is his name. He is 42 years old. Really? Yeah, he works at the Cypress Baghdad Copper Company at this point in time. He's a heavy equipment operator. Oh. And he's kind of a heavy set guy, big guy. Yeah, I usually are.

Yeah, you got to be a little beefy to operate heavy equipment. It's very rare that you see a little guy on a backhoe. A little skinny guy. Yeah. It's usually a very in-charge man. Or woman, but she's beefy. Someone's beefy. Someone's got forearms.

You know what I mean? They're dense. You betcha. Someone has a standing bowling league night is what we're saying that works there. So he's married, recently married to just the middle, I think the spring of 1987. He marries Susan Marie Johnson at this point, who is 24 years old. Oh, get after it, David. So he got himself 18 years younger.

Susan brings two children to this marriage who are six years old and four years old. Oh, so she got after it early. Yeah, she got married early to get out of her house, and that's what happened there. early yeah she got married early to get out of her house and uh that's what happened there so on this night of november 12th 1987 it's about 11 o'clock at night and david comes home he's working second shift at the mines damn heavy equipment operating oh james in the middle of the arizona yeah yeah oh god working second shift the worst time of day you know you there's no relief in that shift yeah you get there when the sun is just at its most oppressive three o'clock you're like oh man i can't even see it's

on a it's on a rolling boil at that point holy shit just a simmer so uh he comes home from work that night 11 o'clock maybe he's like oh at least i have a 24 year old wife inside that's good there's that yeah so he's walking in there and um it's at this point where their neighbors hear here uh two or three gunshots oh that they're like what the hell is that about so they look out the window to see what that could have been because it is baghdad arizona so you get a gunshot a stray a stray is going to go off every once in a while out there it may be it may be 22 caliber snake shot i was just gonna say it might have been one sitting on the porch might have been like a 14 pound rattler coming at you and somebody had to put it to put it down we don't know or coyotes or yeah the desert's dangerous it's scary shit out

the only things that survive out there are really rugged shit that is can last with horrible fucking conditions that's the only thing that survives it's either it's either got spikes uh sharp ass teeth or poison or yeah poison that it delivers through something fucking sharp that can fire at you from a distance it's a terrifying place to be we're not meant to be there nothing is it's like the bottom of be we're not meant to be there nothing is it's like the bottom of the ocean and there's ah there's what is that thing it's got a light hanging over it's biting me what's happening so now they look out the window and they saw a man running from their house from that david and susan's house next door and getting into a green

car and taken off a green sedan and speeding off okay so gunshots two or three they're not sure gunshots are weird especially with hilly areas there's echoes they think two but it could have been three they said we're not sure so and plus in that situation if you're not expecting it you're so out of you may not have heard the first one. Yeah, yeah. So they see all of this. Now, David is shot. He's the one who's hit. And he is shot in the lower back and in the chin with a.357. Holy!

Now, somehow he's not bleeding out. For some reason. Everything. There's no exits. These these 357 bullets are staying inside of him and everything's kind of pooling inside of him. So he's not. He took him. He took him.

Yeah. He's trying. He takes the two. He's not dead. He's trying. He gets to his front door. He's trying to get in his house, but the door's locked. He can't get in because it's 11 o'clock at night.

He's coming home from work. You know, I'm sure that they have two little kids inside. I'm sure she locks the door, locked. He can't get in because it's 11 o'clock at night. He's coming home from work. I'm sure that they have two little kids inside. I'm sure she locks the door. So he's trying to bang on the door. No one's coming to the door. So he's like, fuck, what do I? He's just looking for help. So he drags himself, stumbles over to the neighbor's house next door,

where he kind of half collapses. He's semi-conscious. He's, yeah, it's a.357 he's been shot with, so that's crazy. Now the neighbors, not only the neighbor's house that he stumbled to, but other neighbors have kind of swarmed with the situation. I'm like, holy shit, this poor guy. And he can talk barely, and they said, who did this to you? What the hell happened?

And he said all he could say was a man wearing a mask, a man with a mask, a man with a mask on his face. No idea. Kept saying over and over. He had a mask on. He doesn't know who it is. Now, Susan, hearing all the commotion, had come outside as well and talked to her husband as well in the group setting. Now, they're all there. They didn't all clear out so she could have a private moment with him.

They're all there. They didn't all clear out so she could have a private moment with them. They're all there. And she says that he told me that it was my ex-husband, Clifford Minter, who did it to him. But she's the only one who heard that. Everybody else just heard a man with a mask. And she said, no, no, he told me it was Clifford Minter. So, you know, the cops get there and she says, they all say the guy sped away in a green car. She said it's Clifford Minter. That's who you're looking for.

I guess he's in a green car. I don't know. But Clifford Minter, look for him. So they broadcast that out. They set up basically any car going out of Baghdad. And there's not a lot of roads out of Baghdad. This isn't a place where there's a lot of options. There's what one road going one way, one road going the other way.

There's a lot of options. There's, what, one road going one way, one road going the other way. There's probably a four-way, and each four goes – two of the four likely go towards the interstate. That's – I mean out of, like, the whole town on the interstate. There's the interstate and, like, what, maybe a back road to Prescott maybe, like, over there? Maybe a back road to the mine. To the – that's what I mean. It goes into the quarry.

I don't know what's going on, but there's not a lot. So it's pretty easy to close off and kind of see who's coming in and out anyway so as a police officer speeding to the location from outside of baghdad he passes a green vehicle that's coming out of baghdad yeah so he pulls it the fuck over and stops it um but the guy inside driven by a man it's not clifford minter driving the car so they're looking for clifford minter this is just a guy in a green car so they asked the guy what the hell's going on it's just one dude in the car and he said that he just dropped off a friend of his in baghdad and he's just on his way home back to prescott i don't know yeah baghdad i'm getting the fuck out of here. That's it.

And it was in Baghdad. So I'm leaving quickly. I'd like to do something but go to Bashas and look for, you know, low-grade minerals. I'm looking for something there. I'm all full up on Frog Rock. Yeah. I saw Frog Rock already like 10 years ago. I'm done now.

Yeah. And somebody painted it like a frog, too. You seen it? No. Yeah, there's also a skull rock that somebody painted white as well. I hate this place. They're trying to put some personality in it, and it's very sad. The Frog Rock is really a stretch, too.

It's just a big rock, and if you paint anything like anything, it sort of looks like it. It could have been any shape you wanted it to be. So anyway, but the police are saying if it's not Clifford Minter, let the guy go. So they let the guy go. He takes off. Obviously, it's not Clifford. And that's it. So this cop heads to the crime scene. Now, at the crime scene, there's a small amount of blood where the shooting occurred.

of blood where the shooting occurred but the stranger thing is is there's there's what they find to be after taking it in and testing it to be dried potato what there's there's shards of dry potato all over the place like mash or a gratin or like a like if you like if you took a potato and um yeah there's sweet potato j Jimmy. That's a sweet potato fry. Now, it's a curly fry they have, just a bunch of curly fries. Someone came straight from Arby's. Listen, potatoes can be made in so many ways. That's what I mean. They've got to specify.

No, it's true. Were they twice baked? What are we looking at here? No, if you took a potato and grated it like cheese, you'd have little bits. And if they sat out for a minute, they'd be dry, almost like flakes. You'd have like little bits. And if they sat out. That's browned? Yeah. Yeah. But like smaller. If they sat out from it, they'd be dry, almost like flakes. But they're from a fresh potato. You could tell.

And on David's glasses, there are speckles of potato starch as well. What the fuck? So there's a potato involved in this somehow. All right. Eating a raw potato and yelled and spit it on him eating a potato like an apple and he just yeah just snack crunch a raw potatoes are not hand no they're not a hand i used to tell i had a friend of mine who ended up playing professional football but at the time he was trying to bulk up he was going to college and he walked around

with this big tupperware full of chicken breasts and baked potatoes and he just pulled baked potatoes out and eat them like apples they were cooked but he would just eat them like that i'm like oh bizarre bro not even any like a sour dollop of sour cream on there no butter no butter not even salt he'd just eat it like an apple man i tell i said that's not a hand food what are you doing that's a bizarre way of doing that you're a weird motherfucker man but he made the nfl for like five years so i guess he maybe he did it right he knew what he was doing so they couldn't figure out what the fuck's up with these with this potato did someone beat him with a potato afterwards and like try to hit him with a potato it didn't work so they used the 357 is that the plan they don't know so i can see i see the look in your eyes there oh my god we'll find out that they concluded after

after some uh thinking about it that yeah the murderer must have or attempted murderer at this point he's still alive must have put a potato over the barrel of the gun to be a potato silencer, which I give him credit for ingenuity. I mean, it's not a bad idea, but it didn't work because the neighbors heard gunshots, and it also left a telltale potato residue everywhere. Here's the thing about a.357. That's usually a revolver, and all the sound comes out of there it's not necessarily

just the barrel you can't put it on these there's everywhere and it's loud too yeah yeah does he realize where the hammer hits the bullets back here there's a lot of room in there boom that's where the boom comes from the barrel's just where it the all the energy gets pushed out through that's the point what a fascinating human being this person is. So right away, think about what we're dealing with. I'll put a potato on the end of the gun. On the end of the gun for a silencer. I wish I would have seen this.

I know. I wish I could have seen it and went, do you think that's going to work? What do you think is going to happen? David had to have seen it and laughed, right? Yeah, he's coming at me with a potato hi i know i don't want any potato ow you know like what is that is he trying to sell me potatoes at my house what's going on so david people are vicious they are jesus this guy must be from idaho so it's the idaho mafia they've come down this is what they do that's how you know it's the Idaho mafia. They've come down. This is what they do. That's how you know it's them.

You're covered in potato starch, everywhere. Spray and tater starch on you. Oh no. It's their calling card. Oh my God. This is insane. Oh no.

It's the, all right. A mob. They never stop. They'll never stop till they get their man. That's the problem. He got me with a spot. He got me.

Now, David makes the, he survives. The paramedics are there. They take him to the problem. He got me with a spider. He got me. Now, David, he survives. The paramedics are there. They take him to the hospital. He does not have a lot of blood loss, unless it hit his brain stem or something. That would be the reason for death would be blood loss. Awesome that a potato slows a bullet so much. Apparently, this guy is just a thick guy. He's an overweight guy, and he had a lot more flesh to go through, they said.

So there was no exit, which is where the tearing comes, and that's where all the blood comes from. And it didn't hit any arteries either. So lucky. Wow. There was fluid from the blood from the chin wound and other fluids that ended up getting into his lungs and including the intravenous fluids given to him that leaked into his vascular system and pulled into his lungs. That combined with him being overweight caused him to die in the hospital. Oh, my God. So if everything was handled perfectly, there was a chance he would survive this. But the complications fucked.

They fucked it good. Yeah. The hospital fucked it up. Plus, he got shot twice with a.357. I mean, he wasn't in great shape, but the hospital possibly could have survived him. That's not what I mean to say. Could have helped him survive. But instead, it didn't work.

Now, so that's what happens that night. So that evening, that didn't work. Now, so that's what happens that night. So that's that evening. That all goes on. Now, the next day, Susan here, she seems very tense. She sends her kid to school the next day, which is she's got a kindergartner here. Her daughter, I won't say her name. She's a kindergarten. I mean, she's like our age but still anyway um they said uh this her daughter told the teacher quote mommy's kind of

anxious right now and the teacher said and sad and the teacher said and the kid said no just anxious the kid knows anxious i guess knows anxious from sad they gave him all those faces and they figured them out so that night susan went out drinking with a friend of hers um everybody said she seemed to be in a good mood she took off her wedding rings before she went out and said i'm not going to get anywhere with these susan um she ended up fucking the bouncer that night from the bar what um who whom she just met at the bar that night um had sex with him. And then the following day, she told this bouncer that her husband was murdered over

a narcotics transaction. And she told him that the police had arrested an old boyfriend of hers already, but he's innocent, and that a federal narcotics agent is working with her to clear him. So that's what she's got going on. Girl, this happened yesterday. Very complicated very it's all very fast moving now several people that susan knows describe her as either you know either one both manipulative and a liar one of those two either or that's the main two words used for her uh high school like that yeah we know a few people like that. Shit.

And a high school classmate described her as very manipulative, the kind of person who would get out and get what she wanted no matter what. So now right away, they look into Clifford Minter. I mean, he's the guy, ex-husband. It all makes sense. She just got married married everything like that but they he was not anywhere near baghdad that night and uh definitely has a solid alibi and he's basically like what the fuck are you talking about exactly like an innocent person should be and they go well that's not right we don't think he did it so they look into her a little more and they realize three days before the shooting, Susan forged a document to make her instead of David Johnson's children from a previous marriage, the beneficiary of a life insurance policy with the copper company that's worth fifty two thousand dollars.

What the hell? So that doesn't look good. And then altogether, these policies would have provided her with about $96,000 between that and another policy. In 87 money. In 87 money. You could start over with that very comfortably. Very easily. Yeah.

So it's at this point that they start. They're like, we got to look a little deeper into Susan here. She's banging bouncers. She's out partying. She's forging life insurance policies three days before her husband's fucking whacked uh this doesn't sound good so they find a guy who they find out she has been having an affair with for about a year since before david and her got married i mean all through it she was having an affair while she was planning a wedding

and getting married and why get married you're like you obviously don't want to do that so well you want the money we know that now so either way the guy's name is michael ray white he is one of the most interesting people we're ever going to meet here uh he's 38 years old at the time yeah he has three ex-wives and six kids wow yeah that's um that's a life lived babe yeah i would say so well let's talk about um let's talk about white here um he his his father was known as very aggressive and hostile just to give you some genetics his father left when he was 18 months old and then his mother immediately married a severe alcoholic who was terrible and then he left it's a it's a real mess but his father was

expelled from junior high school for hitting a teacher with a chair holy that's old school right there we're talking this happened in like you know 1940 or something this isn't like you know the kids have gone crazy now he's listening to too much rap music this is like 1940 he was like sing sing sing sing and he's hitting a teacher with a chair this is yeah chuck berry isn't even out this is crazy frank sinatra's barely out this is jolton joe dimaggio that's what's on the radio. And he's hitting people with a chair. That's a teacher. A teacher.

People in positions of authority. No shit. He also he would get in bar fights all the time. Apparently one time he became angry when Michael White's mother didn't immediately clear the dishes from the dinner table after he finished eating. the dishes from the dinner table after he finished eating so he kicked the dinner table across the room and ordered her to fix the whole thing and pick it up and you know put her put everything back together yeah kicked mom's table to the ground yeah i kicked the whole thing i just kicked the table over well we don't need this piece of shit if you don't want to clear it off wow uh one of his stepfathers and i say one of because there was many uh eugene perlo uh frequently

beat the shit out of Michael White, obviously, with his belt and all that sort of thing and hands. That's kind of typical for 50s, 60s rearing. That's par for the course, yeah. Once, though, White here, the Michael White, reached across the table, and this guy backhanded him, knocking him off the chair and to the ground, causing the mother to get upset and Michael to run away from home.

So this happened a lot. Shit like this. He apparently he was basically the stepfather was very abusive. They would play a game called Who Could Hit the Easiest? That ain't a game. No. And obviously White lost every round of it yeah who could hit the easiest you go first and he taps you and then you fucking sock him and go you win that's what the

stepfather would play with a child big win big win yeah for him johnny fuck yeah look at my prizes go get me a beer that's what it was so he said that he would get hit in the shoulder and nose. He has scars from being hit. Once a stepbrother locked him in the trunk of a car and left him there through an entire drive-in movie when he was a child. That wasn't nice. Well, because he was trying to get laid in the front seat. Well, yeah. He just left him in there, thought it was funny.

Apparently that he was also the stepfather was stricter with Michael White than all the other kids. That's according to the stepfather's kids said that. That happens for sure. Absolutely. And around that time, his behavioral problems started. Big shocker. He unsuccessful. Oh, this is his uncle.

His uncle. This is some family background. unsuccessful oh this is his uncle his uncle this is some family background his uncle unsuccessfully tried to kill a truant officer when he was younger what yeah truant officer someone trying to get him to go back to school how did he try to kill him you ask well let me explain with six sticks of dynamite he tried to explode i do explode him tried to blow him up what kind of old-timey minor shit is that what did he say consarn at first consarn goddamn truant officers with the tennessee valley authority and he's trying to blow him up did he have him like wired to the road or do you just like chuck him at him i think he tried to put him in his car i think he tried to chuck him at him. I think he tried to put him in his car. I think he tried to blow his car up. And then he later went to prison for robbery.

White's first cousin is serving at this time that this is all going on, a life sentence for first degree murder. So he comes from a real, some real stock. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch

of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the Wayback

Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the

Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Not done. Not done yet. His maternal grandfather was a violent, abusive alcoholic who died of cirrhosis of the liver. You could say that about me too, so that's fine. That doesn't mean I'm going to kill

somebody. It's exactly the same thing. His uncle died of alcohol-related issues. First cousin also was a drug addict into that's fine that doesn't mean i'm gonna kill somebody it's exactly the same thing um his uncle died of alcohol related issues first cousin also was a drug addict into meth and heroin back in the 70s um his cousin was also arrested for selling rock cocaine in the early 80s so he's ahead of the curve there and uh all sorts of shit white himself was jailed on a lot of misdemeanors and things like that his mother was addicted to prescription pills while he was a baby and a toddler and also smoked and took drugs while he was in her womb. That's amazing. And his stepfather would, another stepfather would also beat him and his mother.

White himself, Michael, suffered a broken collarbone at age two allegedly from falling off a picnic table his arm needed to be kept in a sling but his mother didn't make him do that and so his arm was a little weird at age at age four he suffered a severe head injury from striking his head while running around a pool and his mother didn't take him to the doctor yeah it was such a bad head injury that he still to this day had a dent in his forehead from it you don't take your kid there's a it's dented what dented forehead she went well i mean it was too flat anyway now he's got some fingers am i holding up all right now he's got so what's a finger yeah he'll be fine he can talk. That's crazy. Around the same age, he had a fracture of his hip when he slipped on wet wood. He's got low intelligence as another problem. He Jesus Christ, he would have to around the age of five. He was made responsible for taking care of his toddler brother.

care of his toddler brother as you do at five and um he has while his mother would go to work so he'd be responsible for the kid and when he's five he's babysitting when he was seven his mother told him you're the man of the family now swear to god i'm not kidding all grows up you're all grown up my little guy and that's from that's from his mother that's not from him so um yeah she neglected his education she didn't make him go to school all the time the mother they moved frequently he attended three schools just in the second grade he had to he attended 10 different schools from kindergarten to junior high it'll be fine it'll be all right he doesn't he's unable to identify which school he attended'll be all right he doesn't he's unable to identify which school he attended at a later date he doesn't even remember anymore yeah part of that

is because he started doing drugs around 14 um by 19 he was smoking weed every day while also uh while also doing heroin cocaine lsd meth whatever he could get his hands on um amazing you know the small towns are oftentimes uh regressed in terms of style and culture. The one thing that they are always advanced in is drug use and chemicals. Absolutely. Boy, they've been huffing gas since the 30s. Someone will go somewhere else and figure out how to get high and bring it in, and then they just bring it.

It's like an ant bringing food to the nest. It's like a poison. It's incredible. So he did all this by 25 he moved to san francisco where he became a heroin addict and got hepatitis c wow um he thinks that his use of lsd cocaine and everything else contributed to the demise of his first marriage because he wouldn't stop doing it his second wife though um you know didn't really like what he did, but realized that he needed the drugs to live with himself, so she was okay with it.

She did say when he was sober for a couple months, he, quote, seemed like he could be a decent person, but then he became irritable and abusive after that when he'd start doing drugs again. Withdrawals and such. Yeah. He would talk all about his life, about finding his natural father. He asked his mother for help, but she wouldn't.

As a teenager, he ran away to California to search for his father, which he never found. And that was that. So that's it. And he couldn't find the father. What a story. He is, at this point as an adult, suffering from multiple different sort of low-grade mental illnesses, as well as Graves' disease, which is a physical problem for him. What is that?

Graves' disease is an overactive thyroid that causes a lot of problems. A court, and I'm no shit about medicine, but this is looking it up. They all say the same thing. Causes insomniaomnia disorganized thinking paranoia erratic behavior mood swings nervousness anxiety increased heart rate blood pressure jitteriness it's a general general discomfort overall of the entire body neuro neuro yeah it's a neuro whatever the fuck so he is also um low of low intelligence as we'll talk about weird thing is graves condition is the most uh graves disease is the most common in women under the age of 40

and he's a 38 year old man with it which i mean it's not uncommon but it's just the most common there he recalls always feeling anxious and nervous his he's got stomach ulcers as a child as a child which with that childhood it makes sense yeah um and then for that you'd have you wouldn't know that it's a disease you just assume probably shitty diet or whatever yeah who knows they're just feeding him nothing but fucking mountain dew at home and that's all drink your dinner yeah that'll probably dissolve your stomach lining. Drink your dinner, dude. Come on now. That's not good for you. Always chewing his fingernails, hyperactive, unable to sit or focus in school, wide emotional swings all the time, explosive fits.

Sometimes he's always screaming. He dropped out of school very early, we'll talk about here, or early in terms of grade, but not in terms of age. His IQ went down over the years. Is that right? He was an 86 IQ at 13, which isn't real sharp to begin with. That's not advanced, no. 91 by 14, but then by 16 it had dropped to 74, which is a Gumpian level.

What happened? That could have damaged his head, drugs. I mean, who knows what's going on. Emotional factors factor into that, too. If you're depressed enough or fucked up in the head enough, if mental illness creeps in enough. I do understand that you stop learning at some point or retaining information,, but like for information to like escape you that early, that's insane. Well, it's not the information. It's the ability to process and yeah.

The motor skills. It's all just, you're forgetting. He would work double shifts or two jobs just to control his energy because he had so much energy. His three wives recall him as being hyperactive, nervous and unable to sit still. He wouldn't he couldn't sleep. He would get up because he couldn't shut his mind down and things like that. His ex, his second wife, Eloise, thought he was insane because of his irrational and thought patterns and paranoia. He would place his family at risk, but irrationally and think they weren't at risk.

He'd do stupid things and not realize the risks. When she was pregnant with their third child, they lived, quote, on desert ground. What is that? In the middle of the fucking desert. Just out there. After Jeremiah was born, that's their child there, they kept him by the river in a bassinet covered with a mosquito net.

And the wife here insisted that they move him after his face turned beet red and poured sweat, you know, because it's hot as fuck in the desert. Yeah, that's heat stroke. He would sometimes not get medication that doctors would prescribe for him and wouldn't give medication to the infant son when he was ill sometimes also because he thought there was something wrong with it. So they moved to Maine at some point. What? Yeah, from the desert. I want it to be chilly and wet now and cloudy. That's what I'm looking for. Totally different.

That's a long way to go. That's his brain. It goes from Arizona to Maine quite frequently, his brain. It's very representative of his mental state here. Yeah. She said one day he, quote, quote, came home one day and thought their car was being watched. They immediately left town on a bus and never went back to the apartment for their possessions. That's unstable as man uh his other wife

recalled him exhibiting bizarre and paranoid behavior during the two years uh leading up to this murder that happened he became angry when she tried to register to vote he told her that their lives would be ruined if the government found them and he always insisted on using back roads and staying off highways boy he sounds funny he's a party oh it gets better it gets crazier uh he would talk to himself all the time and she would say what now and he'd go never mind nothing i wasn't talking to you he would make mind your business yeah don't about it. Are you the only one in the car? No. She said he would make, quote, peculiar religious comments, which are always fun. Peculiar religious comments, such as telling her that Lucifer lived down the street from him.

And that it's cool, though, because St. Peter was coming to take care of Lucifer and, you know, clean up the street. Neighborhood watch style. Yeah, he's on another block. He'll take care of it. and clean up the street. Neighborhood watch style. Yeah, he's on another block. He'll take care of the street. He's got that. He's working on another neighborhood. He's like a guardian angel. He's got to work on something else.

Lucifer lives down the street. One time he traded in a trailer that they had for two mules, a harness, and a wagon. He converted the wagon to something. I don't know what. It just says converted it. Then he took Eloise, his wife, and their two kids back to Wickenburg, Arizona to two gold claims. In the wagon with the mules? He just pretended it was 1875.

That was his goal there. We're going on the trail. It's a dusty trail. They had mules. They had horses, chickens, goats, and dogs, but they had no running water where they lived. So he didn't plan on that. So they had to haul water and everything like that. While he would look for work, she would stay in the truck with the kids in the middle of the desert.

And eventually she got a job working as an aide in the hospital during this time they lived on charity of people basically they'd go beg they were extremely poor they'd live by the riverbank in a tent sleeping on the ground in the dirt and the family was always filthy because it's arizona and all the rivers are dry so it's not like it's a river where you can wash in it and do anything it's just a dirty it's a riverbed x if it rains there'll be a stream in there for 15 minutes yeah that's it so when this woman went into eloise when she went into labor with their third child the pastor's wife and other people from the church cleaned her up and took her to the hospital because they felt bad for her yeah holy shit now when he lived with his third wife in texas they lived for months without a bed while she was pregnant they slept

on the floor of a room and stayed in the cheapest most run-down hotels in town she said with a wife um mid-1987 the pastor this is it happened in november 1987 the murder the 1987 of the pastor, this is, it happened in November, 1987, the murder, the pastor of the church in Prescott gave him rides to and from church and fed him said that white seemed like a loner and was just down on his luck. He would sit by himself at church dressed like a scumbag. He would say basically, uh, what he once worked in the pastor's yard for some money. And, uh, the time, like in the month leading up to the murder, White was, quote, sleeping on the floor of an upholstery shop. That's where he was living as a teenager.

He fathered two children with two different women. So that was nice. Well, he married one of them anyway. Then he married another woman. He married Eloise when he was 25 and she was 18. All these women, by the way, were escaping abusive homes. All of them. All these young ladies here.

She had just left her childhood abusive home. And then he met his third wife when he was 33 and she was 19 and running away from an abusive situation as well. Fisher, his third wife, had never left the town of Wickenburg, Arizona. Imagine that. Really? Phoenix is right there. Never been there.

Phoenix? Oh, man. I heard tell. Wickenburg. It's right there. It's just right there. In the 70s and 80s, though? Oh, dead. That place is-

There was a much bigger- It's an island. You're right. Yeah. That place is destitute also bigger it's an island you're right yeah that place is destitute also it's like it's so it's so brown we did it we did a story there remember it's fucking terrible now um she'd never left the town of wickenburg she was very naive she believed white when he told her that he was an undercover CIA agent. So, yeah.

And undercover. He lives in a Coleman. That's it. Yeah. Look at me. I'm undercover. I'm really rich. And a psychiatrist would later say that he likes he gets starts relationships with, quote, young women with emotional and psychological, emotional and psychological problems.

and psychological problems, these deficiencies allowed Michael to emotionally dominate them. Because the psychiatrist said his low intelligence, he knew that that was the only people he could get over on, basically. One time he bought a horse, but left it tied to a water pipe

for several days without food or water when he left town. The horse pulled the water pipe, burst it, and flooded the yard it's thirsty yeah this guy's a moron um when he went to get married to his second wife he didn't know his mother's correct maiden name for their marriage certificate couldn't remember slipped his mind um when they moved to oregon him and his second wife, so we're to Wickenburg, Maine, Oregon are three places they've been. Stunning.

They camped out in a lean-to, hoping to get squatters' rights to property, not realizing that that state's homesteading law had been repealed years earlier. You can't even do it. he told many people throughout his life that he was either a police informant a cia agent or a federal narcotics agent during his adult life he held low-skilled jobs each of which was quote and this is according to the psychiatrist essentially a repetitive manual occupation appropriate for someone of low intelligence holy balls uh he was a dishwasher he he would like paint outside house painter uh he sold rabbit fur and native american jewelry on the side of the road oh boy and he was an assistant nurse's aide not a nurse's aide an assistant nurse take this shit and dump it is what that is yeah you don't need this take this that i just took off of that person. I just wiped this off of them and take it outside and dispose of it.

That's that. And then rinse this out. So obviously when 24-year-old Susan, who, by the way, the attractiveness is very – there's a huge disparity here. Susan's way too attractive for him as well. When they meet in January of 1987, how could she resist him? Obviously. How could she resist his wiles? So they worked together at

a nursing home in prescott and then when they first met they worked together at the same place he told her yeah i'm a doctor he's a nurse's aids assistant he's not even close to a doctor he's her assistant and he's saying i'm a doctor i'm a doctor let me here i'll clean that shit for you doctor um so give me those rags. No, no, no. I like to stay humble. Stick to my roots. So at the time, he was living with his third wife already for years, and she was already in a relationship with David, and they were planning on getting married.

But while he was at work, White would come over. While David was at work, White would come over and bang Susan every day. Unreal. So in April, White and Susan went to Michigan where they lived together and worked at a nursing home. How's he doing this? How's she doing this? What is happening? I don't know, right?

David said that he felt like maybe Susan was taking advantage of him, but who knows. But in October, Susan returned to Baghdad and White went to Prescott with his wife, but they continued fucking, even though she was marrying David at this point. They spoke on the phone up to six times a day, and White would come over and bang her all the time. He would tell people all the time about his girlfriend saying that they were planning on getting married at some time servers at the local restaurant he'd be like yeah just here see my girlfriend gonna get married she's living with someone else in baghdad or other boyfriend has money um but you know they're gonna get that money and use it to start a business they're

gonna move to phoenix where they're going to start a business. Oh, yeah. So around November 1st, I guess, is when Susan started asking him, hey, will you help me kill my husband? Let's kill my husband and we'll spend his money and move to Phoenix. What a life. And he said that he wanted to, but he was afraid and then he was confused. He didn't know what to do he was he told um he was he told his now ex-third wife about this she wants me to kill her husband but i don't know what to do and i think she's planning on killing him and she wants me to do it but i'm telling her trying to talk her out

of it and all that during this hopes and aspirations of air conditioning one day oh someday baby we're gonna get a big old swamp cooler in the sky. It's going to be amazing. Susan during this time also called several insurers about life insurance policies and called Colonial Pen Insurance to inquire about a time frame on insurance policies and including when you can receive monies. How fast do I get money? Yep. receive monies how fast till i get money yep she also called mutual of omaha to inquire about a hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy but expressed concern about how long it would take for them to pay out if he were accidentally killed if god forbid my husband's killed i don't know if

you're the right one that i want i'm just i need to know how quick the money comes so yeah that's and then she was doing all this other shit now on november 19th at a pawn shop they found out uh white made a down payment on the 357 magnum revolver used to kill david he made a second payment the next day and then returned on the 27th to return the to get the remaining balance and pick up the gun so yeah because he he fucking pawned the gun after he think about that disgusting shot a guy then pawned the gun how dumb that is so give me for this tater jesus christ around november 20th his ex-wife said she was upset with him for not making child support payments and she said he said don't worry about it we're not gonna have to worry about money anytime soon because susan's getting a hundred thousand dollars we're starting a business there um few days later he told his ex that he couldn't

get the money and then um yeah that all happened here so december 18th 1987 finally he's arrested in phoenix white they figure the whole thing out in his car he has a box of 38 caliber bullets a holster a ski mask an envelope with blood on it that belongs to david an envelope another envelope on the back of it written quote suzy i love you we will be careful i will call soon love michael and to top it off a bag of potatoes just for good measure just for good measure i only needed no need to let these go go to fucking small we could make some fries later i think who doesn't like potatoes so he kept the bag he had just kept everything in his car for that long just kept it all here's my murder kit for next time um that is fucking insane um now while in custody he's examined by a doctor and he white claims to have had four years of law school at

this point he dropped out he dropped out in the 10th grade by the way so oh i'm sorry the ninth grade he had one semester of ninth grade um but he says he went to four years of law school is planning to go to medical school and um all of that and by the way he also graduated from the florida air academy so there's that so he's pilot. Yeah, he's a pilot and a doctor and a lawyer. I'm also the president. Did I mention that? Secretariat of State. He said the idea for a silencer came from a Hawaii Five-0 episode.

Which maybe on a.22 automatic it might work. You know what I mean? Slightly. Slightly. Not a lot. I don't know what it would work on. Definitely not a.22 automatic it might work. You know what I mean? Slightly. Slightly. Not a lot. I don't know what it would work on. Definitely not a.357 revolver. Definitely not that.

Even a semi-automatic, the top comes back to chamber another round. So if you put a potato on there, it's going to stick it. That's what I'm saying. It's never a good idea. This is bad. It's just a bad 70s TV trope. That's it. It's so funny on a revolver.

Good God. So they arrest Susan. Yeah. In the booking area, they run into each other in jail during the booking area. And he asked her, quote, is everything still the same, Susie? Do you still love me okay now pre-trial that his his his fucking lawyers like this dude is batshit um i don't know if you know this fucking crazy we should get like an exam and they're like ah he's fine prosecutors want death penalty for him

they're severing the cases of susan and Michael. They're going to be tried separately. So they say that he's got a mental dysfunction. His mental dysfunction that the lawyers are trying to say is that he won't stop communicating with inmates, prosecution witnesses, and others, including Susan's

counsel and the prosecutor. He's sending all these people letters. He's observed in jail suffering from visual and auditory hallucinations and paranoia he was quote sure he saw a bullet and heard someone putting together a gun in his cell he's alone in his cell by the way in october of 88 he attempted to demonstrate thought broadcasting to a doctor watch i'm gonna i'm gonna broadcast my thoughts to you check it out i can do this you're about to hear my every thought he displayed bizarre

facial expressions and appeared to be responding to internal stimuli in november 88 an inmate report uh said that white seemed quote around the bend and talk to himself all day around the bend. They said that he seemed to be suffering from a biological mental disorder and was diagnosed with organic anxiety disorder. Then he was taken some kind of drugs used to treat seizures. Then an Arizona Department of Corrections psychiatrist suggested that his, quote, occasional bizarre behavior may be may well be attributed to his thyroid condition. But they got that under control. Still fucking crazy. Now, Susan testifies that she was originally going to blame the crime on her own brother, but then decided to blame it on her ex-husband.

So, you know, the prosecutor said that she was clearly the instigator and kept pushing, but then he did it. Verdict comes in for him. yeah guilty now they're saying he did it for monetary gain so that's why they want the uh the death penalty and they this is a judge decision not a jury decision on this one for the he says you sir may fuck off death penalty for michael i am shocked shocked now susan's trial she could also get death yeah um testimony came from two former friends who said that uh basically they heard her talking about wanting her husband dead and all that sort of thing she's obviously found guilty there's no way out of it um went to the insurance company three days before the death you're going to jail and the only the only reason these two men know each other is because of you that's the only way they're connected uh they say you ma'am may fuck off two 25 year to life

sentences consecutive so 50 years before she gets out but no death penalty that's so light the judge said that the jury in the case wrote a letter to him recommending leniency to her she manipulated the jury yeah yeah she's a manipulator that's amazing so in jail he gets crazier let's talk about it quickly we don't have a lot of time but this is fucking wild um he said oh wow he said that the arizona department of corrections was quote monitoring his thoughts through some sort of electrical device which was somehow tied into the electroshock therapy machine inside the prison all right he also said who that susan who is in perryville not even in the same prison visited him outside his cell to taunt him on a regular basis as well.

And he knows which portion of his head the electrical apparatus is connected to and sent the counsel a diagram showing him this is where it's going. This part of my brain, stupid. Why can't you see this? Obviously. If only I could get in there and get it out. His counselor keeps doing these appeals saying that my client is, quote, very mentally unbalanced. Like, he is crazier than you can imagine. Yeah.

He said he's gradually withdrawn from reality since he arrived at the prison and is engaging in very, all capitals, bizarre behavior. He writes letters to his counsel that were bizarre and of no help in the preparation of his case in one instance he wrote three letters in one day and stated that he was intentionally closing quote to start a new letter he's just nuts um he also wrote lots of other letters to lots of other people he alleged that he was being tortured with various types of implants such as a laser mic uh s and telemeters exposing him to radiation causing him physical and mental damage he claimed that the arizona department of corrections has raped his memories that's a quote okay and deprived him of all his privacy because of the mind-to-mind contact i can't believe they gave him life or gave him death and gave her that that's that's that's crazy they sent him the arizona department of corrections employee sent him thought signals

from the quote implant projection room projected multiple personalities into his mind and forced him to perform sexual and violent acts intermittently for as long as six hours at a time six hours of sex sex and violence it goes back and forth um he's gets crazier um here somehow his his physicality is all fucked up um they said that he has um he calculated that his bones are aging faster and he calculated that 54 years of torture plus 32 years of bone loss combined with the normal sentence reduction rate of 18 years amounted to 104 years of sentencing relief for which he was eligible for. So really, you should let me out 70 years before I'm born. Cool. Thank you. Goodbye.

That's what he wrote. He sees Benjamin Button? Yeah. They said he has outlandish... Then the Arizona Department of Corrections experts started diagnosing him as schizophrenic at this point. Schizophrenic and saying he has outlandish and paranoid

ideas that are persisting. He wrote letters to others. He wrote to the Arizonarizona department of corrections uh director samuel lewis he wrote to the attorney general grant woods he wrote to the u.s attorney at the time janet napolitano he wrote to senator john mccain and the president bill clinton at the time requesting that they stop the torture that's happening to him please going up the ladder. I'll go over your head.

Let me speak to your manager. Okay, well, let me speak to your manager. In 1992, he described witnessing the recent execution of another inmate through the inmate's eyes because he said the mind projection. Yeah, that's what they did to him. He claimed that the Arizona Department of Corrections forced him to watch via an implanted laser mic, and he filed lawsuits about it. Yeah, how dare you. He gets a new attorney that goes, holy shit, please, bro, this fucking guy is nuts.

So in 2006, he's in prison and he is writing. He has on a Web site here. What is this? It's a death death row dot dash you stock or dash us dot com. So he writes a thing. I'd like to have anybody contact my Web site so you can see me and know my position on this issue. He says that he needs to stop people from being tortured. He's being tortured.

He said, I expand on the website to include the actual torture of American prisoners on death row. Part of that is having to watch their executions through their eyes. He gets some new appeals, okay? The prosecutor testifies for him. The prosecutor says, I didn't even want the death penalty. Right. We can't kill this guy. This is crazy.

They only filed it because it was the process of that district attorney's department in Yavapai County to any death eligible cases you ask for. You have to, right. He he said i didn't even want it he said i thought susan was the mastermind this guy's a fucking moron he's crazy as shit he's drooling all over himself life she certainly manipulated him into this obviously with it's clear and he wasn't going to get any fucking money she was she's been grooming this guy for a year to get him to do this. She was just fucking him for nothing. He says also that he's a model inmate. He said that he's been a model, tried to be a model inmate.

He said, quote, he does not participate in gangs there. He talked about his daughter who had drug problems and got raped and somebody committed suicide and then threw her into a drug situation. She tried to take her own life and all like she goes through this whole thing. We don't know if this is true or not, but he said he believed he saved her life and he wanted to be in contact with his children. And he's just a fucking disaster.

And finally the court says, you know what? Well, life is fine. We'll just, we're not going to kill this fucking guy. He's going gonna get in and be like hey this is great where are we going like this is a big car like we can't execute this man

he's out of his fucking mind for the loop-de-loop and the corkscrew in this roller coaster this is gonna be fun yay so what was it david cross had the bit about when they execute handicapped people and he'd go seat belt for my arms. Like we can't do that. That's crazy. That's fucking crazy. Susan though, still isn't eligible for any kind of parole pretty soon coming up here and like,

cause it would be from 87, 50 years. So 37 is yeah. Another mid two, two thousand 30 something early 2030. So not too bad for her. At 2037, I guess. If she lives.

If she lives, and then he's not going to get out, but holy shit, is he bonkers. Anyway, that's Baghdad, Arizona, and the potato gun mind control incident. If you like that show, tell the world, give a review on whatever app you're listening on. Five stars is fantastic. Go to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. Get your tickets for all the live shows coming up. Your merchandise, September 10th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Almost sold out.

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Pull it into the station. Everybody's getting their bags. I got to make last announcements. Find it there. Do your thing. Patreon.com slash crime and sports come and see us holy shit tuesdays crime and sports wednesdays or thursdays remember the fuck it comes out small town murder god damn it thank you until next week it's been our pleasure let's get hash browns bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.