Small Town Murder - #315 - A Dangerously Unpredictable Cannibal - Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

This week, in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada, an unpredictable, and unbelievable scene happens, seemingly out of nowhere, leaving someone without a head, and some other body parts. The even crazier part is that the killer forced a large group of people to helplessly watch as he stabbed, beheaded, and began to eat the victim. When the murderer was taken into custody, he even had a few parts, in his pocket. This leads to a strange outcome in court, but there's no way that person will ever walk the streets, again, right? Right?? RIGHT??? Not so fast...Along the way, we find out that Canada loves potatoes, that you truly never know who you're sitting next to, and that the only thing worse than being on a Greyhound bus, is being beheaded & eaten on a Greyhound bus!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and choo-choo. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. All aboard the murder train, everybody. Pulling away from the station, let's do this.

We have a crazy episode. This might be the craziest episode literally we've ever had in the history of any of our shows. But this is absolutely insane is the only way to say it i don't even know what to tell you but before we get to that very quickly thank you for all that you do for us shut up and give me murder.com is where you get everything you could want small town murder and crime and sports related including merchandise tons of new stuff right that and of course tickets to live shows oh we can't wait virtual live show you can't come to us we will come to you right coming to you wherever you are in the world we are we're going to be there in your living room just right in your face october the 27th and it's

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So late shows there. They're going to be two different shows. So come see both shows. And then Orlando, the 24th of September, we're going to be at the Orlando Improv. Two shows there that night as well. So get your tickets right now. Make it a night. Shut up and give me murder.com.

Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus materials and we put out a lot of bonus material for your five anybody five dollars or above a cup of coffee a month you're gonna get two new episodes every other week and you're gonna support a couple of nice guys so it's good stuff here this week which you're gonna get is for crime and sports you're gonna get sex scandals part two, where we talk about that nice young lady's thesis paper on having sex with as many athletes of her college that she could and then rating them more than anybody on Yelp ever thought to rate anybody. It's pretty impressive. And a couple other scandals as well and then for small town murder we're going to talk about that most dangerous animal documentary on netflix where a guy thinks his long-lost father is the zodiac killer and puts a lot of things together and makes some connections that aren't there and writes a book

about it makes his whole identity and then it's all a house of cards that falls and it's a mess it's just cards crying the shit same thing his dad wasn't a serial killer he wasn't busy serial killing he just wasn't around. That's all there is to it. But we'll find out where the state of that investigation. Can you hear me? Yeah. The state of that investigation.

It was Cat Stevens there. The cat's in the cradle for him. Then we'll talk about the other suspects and how that investigation is going. That is Patreon.com. I forgot. I was like, where am I? Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is going that is patreon.com I forgot I was like where am I patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show

that said let's get to this because it's nuts let's do it it's time to sit back everybody clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this Jimmy shall we alright let's shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy, shall we?

All right. All right, let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's hit the road. We are going out of the country this week. Oh, shit. Heading up to Canada. Get your passports. Let's go up to Canada, baby.

We are going to Portage or Portage or however they say it. I don't know. Portage. Depends on how french you are probably uh portage la prairie manitoba so in manitoba manitoba for all of our americans are manitoba kind of it sits above north carolina north carolina north dakota and north dakota and minnesota it's it kind of splits the borders between those two states. If you drove the border up, it would kind of go right through Manitoba.

So that's where it is. It's their kind of plains-y area up there. The north-est of Carolinas. Yeah, the furthermost North Carolina that we have. So, Jesus Christ. Anyway, it's a population of about 13,000 people here. It is called the City of Possibilities. It seems like there's not a ton of possibilities.

They're all fulfilled. Let's just put it that way. I don't know. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of hope here. But the income, it's about median household income is about $57,000 a year. So it's pretty similar to the U.S. And the median home cost here is about $224,000 a year, too. Not bad.

Not bad. It seems like semi-affordable. People have been here for a long time. They found evidence here, a little history of people being here for the last 12,000 years. Holy shit. Long, long, long time they've been here. During World War II, the Royal Canadian force constructed canadian forces base in this area to yeah support the air program and um also this place is uh commercial cultivation of cannabis

here was obviously it was banned in canada in the 30s but in 1928 they grew 1640 acres of industrial hemp in the whole country. And 1200 acres of that was right here in this town. So Manitoba, get at least smelled good in this town anyway, had a good scent reviews of this town. Now, this is there's no like the same equivalent to like niche or Sperling's for like straight reviews of a town. So I had to find someone who was asking on reddit should i move to this town so here's some people giving reviews on reddit this is uh okay so here's an honest to god truth about portage it isn't all that bad that's good i guess to hear it's just like any other medium-sized town slash city you have your drug problems bad

parts of town you don't want to live in it's only 13 000 people there shouldn't be that many bad parts of town at this at this rate right there should be at least a bad part of town yeah that those four houses over there are kind of pieces of shit but stay away from those guys neighborhood gets better uh parts of town you just don't want to live in. Just in general, bad points, but it's also a lot of good things. A good recreational center, a lot of extracurricular activities, multiple schools depending on the area you live in. It's got the religious community, but it's not overpowering. That's helpful. You are a short drive from Winnipeg, 45 minutes to the outskirts of Winnipeg.

Well, if you have Winnipeg right there, what else can you want? A Canadian town that can you want a canadian town that can't hold a hockey team that sounds like you you loses a hockey team to phoenix that's a hotbed obviously literally they're like no i think the desert where no one ever has ice skated unless they're from you know fucking buffalo that lives there yeah we should we should move them there rather than here so i don't know much about Winnipeg. Place that can support ice all year round. Nope.

I'm going to head to a place that can never support ice. There you go. So all you can so you can do all your shopping and recreation that you can't get or don't want to do in Portage. Housing is relatively inexpensive compared to other all the other communities bordering Winnipeg. I'm talking $100,000 or more difference. I've lived here all my life, moved to Winnipeg for a few years, and decided to move back, and I don't regret it.

Okay. So they love it. Okay. Now, this next person, not as much here. This one regrets it. I grew up in Portage La Prairie or whatever the fuck it is and go back there often it was safe 30 years ago now it's a crime-ridden town full of meth oh so it's just like america so it just goes right up the gut there perfect don't believe me do your own research

i would not ever live there again all capital letters with not, by the way. You want a nice town with lots of amenities, including a school, hospital, and close to Winnipeg? Try Stonewall. Oh. Different town. Not this fucking town. Is that the mayor of Stonewall right now? I think this is, yeah. Come on over.

Stonewall, the city of big shoulders. We'll take you on. Come on in here. Let's do it. Now, very quickly, we'll do the things to do. The Portage Potato Festival. Who do you think you are? Idaho, apparently.

Is this Boise, Canada? It's a celebration of our favorite veggie, the potato. Yeah. That's what it says. It's everybody's favorite. Well, at the event lineup in 2022, the event lineup they have, it was uh nine seven o'clock on friday august 5th they had fernie turnbull was there so oh you know that's are these potato themed bands i wonder do they only sing songs about tater tots and shit i like waffle cut that's a big hit there at the The Bivers, B-I-I-V-E-R-S.

Bivers? Bivers, Bivers. Then there's, let's see, a baby spud contest, which I'll show you a picture of. You dress your kid up like a potato. Oh, no. It's fucking weird. Then there is, what is this? Oh, my God.

There's Edgar and Bruce. I don't know who they are, but I don't want to watch it. Hicktown is the name of another band, which is self-atory the the barry g band is playing oh barry gotta have him there and then also my maybe my favorite mr richard magic and music ventriloquism act he's mr dick mr dick and my puppet he's not good at anything and he just does all of it all of it magic music i got a puppet i'll fucking throw in there if i can't get over with the other shit why not then there's bubble soccer i don't know what the fuck that is do you is it where you i don't know i don't know maybe it's where you get in a bubble and you fucking have livestock push you around here move move over check this out i'll move the screen here so you can see it. The 2022 Baby Spud Contest.

Yeah, I hate that so much. We want to see your best dressed baby spuds, it says, which sounds disgusting. It does. That sounds like they want jizz. That's a baby. What the fuck? It's in a sack, a potato sack with 15 pounds across its ass. And there are-

It looks like hair curlers they made up those are potatoes that they're like on a hair net thing that they put over this baby's head so this baby's wearing a helmet of potatoes of raw potatoes i hope that baby won so that's where we are right now we're here wild ass place man that said let's talk about a murder all right let's do it holy jesus what the shit happened there that's the weirdest one of the weirdest things ever i'd love to delve further into that potato festival alone is worth it there's so much to talk about there so now right away i have to tell you that i'm going to probably mispronounce a name or two not only of the town but i'm going to mispronounce a name because one of the people in the story is from china now oh so i might not pronounce his name that well and

i'm trying but in my defense i would assume a guy in china would probably have trouble pronouncing some italian guy from new york's name as well so we're gonna fucking hand it off exchange with this one sorry everybody so even steve pronounce petrogallo yeah that's what i thought thank you exactly spell it we'll we'll fucking go back and forth so anyway let's talk about a murder let's do this we need to go back in time to 2008 for this one so not too far back pretty recent yeah this this is this is absolutely bonkers okay july 30th 2008 here we go we're on a greyhound bus right now oh boy and on this greyhound bus is a man named tim uh timothy richard mclean m-c-l-e-a-A-N, McLean. McLean. McLean.

He's 22 years old, and his girlfriend's about four months pregnant right now. She's not with him. He's by himself because he's a carny. He's a carnival worker who is returning home to Manitoba after working a fair in Alberta. Jesus. Yeah. He's on his way home there as he was a summer carnival worker at edmonton's capital x x like expo i guess yeah and was planning to work at vancouver's pacific national exhibition as well pretty soon so okay he's all ready to go he's real outgoing

old timmy here yeah he's either timmy to his friends or uh tim jr to his family because of course he's a junior obviously yeah so um he's known as also quite a bit of a ladies man he's a ladies man carney and he he's a short guy too it's tiny everybody he's a tiny tim every well that's what they call him at work actually really they call there's a quote of we call we call him tiny tim they all love him though it's not they're not no one's picking on him that's just his nickname it's right you know certain industries whatever your you know perceived shortcoming is that's your nickname and that's how it works you know nobody likes those by the way no no no nobody likes especially when they're like there was a guy at my work named

jimmy and i was jimmy and they called him big jimmy because he was six eight you don't have to call me mini jimmy okay yeah we get it we we have big jimmy i'm just regular size jimmy no that's not how it works though when i stand next to him though i look like a mini jimmy why is it only the most terrible jobs also so it's like so this sucks we're i'm outside in the sun i hate every fucking day of my life i gotta be here at six in the morning and you're gonna break my fucking balls about every shortcoming i have to nobody at fuck nobody who's like a ceo of a bank has to do this you know what i mean no one walks into the ceo of a bank and they're like what's up shriveled dick like that never happens ever oh it's okay the vice president just up, shriveled dick? Like, that never happens. Ever.

Oh, it's okay. The vice president just calls me shriveled dick sometimes because we were in a pool and my bathing suit fell down and it was cold. And, you know, no, that doesn't happen. It's like, this job sucks. Let's make it worse. Cool. Sounds good. Why do we do that to ourselves?

Many. Oh, God. That is fucking terrible. So either way, he's a he's tiny Tim. This bus had to he departed Edmonton on a bus on a Greyhound bus. No less Greyhound bus. Eleven seventy. Jesus.

That sounds bleak right there. Headed from Edmonton to Winnipeg. Yeah. On the Yellowhead Highway. And go through saskatchewan apparently and there you are he is in the back of the bus as a good car he would be like a you know like a kid in in high school he's like a junior and he's like i think i'm good for the back of the bus this year you know that's a tough way to live when your face is back of the greyhound bus it's one row from the bathroom.

Yeah. Yeah. You're smelling other people's shit at some point. Greyhound shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. They're not making good food decisions. They're making bad travel decisions.

You know, they're not making good food decisions. What if they ate at a bus station and then they're going to get on with you and then you got to sit there. So at six at six fifty five p. p.m that day after a stop the bus departed from a stop in erickson manitoba with you know a couple passengers getting off couple passengers getting on one of the passengers getting on is another man vince is his first name Um, we Gwang, I'm going to say why Gwang W E I G U A N G Y Gwang. Yeah. Lee is his last name.

L I that's Lee, right? I believe Chun Lee. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Lee, but I've also seen L E over there being Lee. So what the fuck do I know? I know very little about how Chinese names work.

I'm sorry. I apologize, but, um, take it up with Sean. If you got a problem with it yeah yeah i have no idea and uh this one here yeah vince lee we'll call him here um and he is he's born in china i'm not just saying his name's chinese he's born in china uh in april 1968 so he's about 40 almost 41 years old at this time um and uh like we said tim is 22 by the way so uh he's got his whole carny goodness ahead of him years and years of carny and so vince here he was born in dan dong yeah see we're not mature enough to talk about chinese cities we're really not the the 11 year

old boy in us here's a word we hear dan dong and we're like who's dan and where's his dong we we can't think of anything else it's just everybody with a dad named dan is from dan dong dan dong they're all from dan dong that's just a wild fucking we're aren't we all from dan dong really in the end tan dong kind of stands for all of us see we're not mature enough we're immediately we're like whispering shit in the classroom trying not to get in trouble and the two of us imagine if we were ever in a class together dear lord we would have been in so much trouble just we would have been in the most trouble ever yeah oh my god we would have been vicious a terrible terrible team that would have been not thank god we didn't meet till later. Honestly, for the rest of the world. Thankfully, we didn't meet later because we both be in prison. Probably that would have cost me my graduation. I'm sure. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I would have been farther away from graduation. Even worse. It would have been a disaster. So, yeah, anyway, this guy, though, he graduates in 1992 from the Wuhan Institute of Technology.

Oh. So, yeah, he's from there with a Bachelor's of Science in Computers. Oh. So, yeah. He's a smart fella. Oh, yeah, Vince Lee's a smart guy. From 94 to 98, Vince worked in Beijing as a computer software engineer. Oh. Doing his thing um he's also

studying english the whole time he's doing this because he wants to end up emigrating to canada that's his goal okay wants to get to canada so he's working up he's working on his english he's you know doing shit with computers and uh he married he finds a wife in 1995 great marries a young woman named anna 95 in china so he's ready to roll he's like getting everything in a row okay got my education i got some money got a job learning english get myself a wife and then i'm gonna go take all of this to canada that's the goal here all right so he does this and he comes over on June 11th, 2001. He comes to Canada. So there he is.

And he will later on become a Canadian citizen and everything. Great. November 7th, 2006, he becomes a Canadian citizen. He's very enthusiastic about being in Canada from all accounts. Very, very enthusiastic. Does it fall apart? What puts him on a fucking greyhound bus well that's the thing is when you're other countries for some reason i don't know why and it's not all of them but some some places for some reason like you'll hear this all the time like uh it's

almost like an old joke like oh you'll see a cab driver and it'll be like you know he'll be like you know i was a i was an obstetrician in poland you know what i mean it'll be like, you know, he'll be like, you know, I was a, I was an obstetrician in Poland. You know what I mean? Like it's a weird, you know what I mean? It's like a weird thing. So this country, it doesn't translate sometimes with immigrants. I'm not sure why, or I don't know if it's not the same. I have no idea.

I'm not even going to venture a guess because it doesn't have anything to do with this. A guy working at Chipotle that used to be a veterinarian in Mexico. That's what I mean. You're like, how does that work? Doesn't, the animals are the same and dogs are veterinarian in Mexico. That's what I mean. You're like, how does that work? The animals are the same. Dogs are still dogs in Mexico. What's going on here? Why can't we do that?

So I don't know if there's an accreditation problem. I have no idea how it works. But either way, he's over here doing his thing. They find a home near downtown Winnipeg shortly after coming over. He's hired as a forklift driver that's what he gets over here and she starts working at a few different chinese food restaurants as a waitress okay and so they're both they're both working they're hard working immigrants they're trying to make a life they had a goal they're trying to make a life they begin occasionally attending

church a baptist church oh which because they wanted they didn't know how to meet like people they didn't know how to meet like canadian people like just people that would be around and then they just wanted to have friends and they didn't really they didn't really know anybody and apparently they were saying there wasn't a huge like you know chinese-born population where they were living. So in that particular place. So they were kind of, you know, they were just looking to spread their social circle out. And they were speaking English. And they're like, we want to fucking, you know, ingrain ourselves in the culture here. We're part of this, too.

Yeah. Oh, Canada. Oh, Canada. So they wanted to, they also wanted social stuff. And Lee also, Vince, he gets a job at the church as well. And it's attached schoolhouse. He's a night custodian. So he picks up some extra work there also.

Two jobs now. Yeah, he's working two jobs. Absolutely. Yeah, one of the people that knew him said, quote, he was always a little bit quiet, kind of reserved. I think that's because he was self-conscious about his English. Everybody said that he tend to talk he spoke in broken english and he tend to talk in like fast bursts trying to get it out because he would ah yeah yeah it's that's a hard english is a really hard language to learn and sure is chinese looks really hard too and to know anything about both of them is impressive to me and watching anybody speaks Chinese fast, it's mind-boggling.

I don't know how they do it. Whoa, yeah. It seems fast. I'm sure it's the same as... It's just a normal cadence. It's just bone thugs. I don't know. It's just busy bone.

Yeah, it's all this. So he said, though, eventually, though, the people who ran the church, like the pastor there, they ended up being friends with the Lees. And he warmed up to them eventually. And they said, oh, eventually they figured out he's a nice guy. He's just self-conscious because he speaks English worse than anyone else around. And this woman said that, quote, we play cards and dominoes and games like that together. So they'd all hang out. And his English is improving a ton, hanging out with more Canadians, which is helpful.

You know, I assume if I wanted to learn Chinese, being around a bunch of Chinese people that were speaking, it would probably be the best way to do that. Sure. Rather than reading it or something. So so he would enjoy socializing. They went on dinner parties, to dinner parties. They even went on trips with another couple to a lake a couple of times. Really? Yeah, they're really getting into everything. He becomes a citizen, so he really wants to be Joe Canada.

I don't know if, we would always say Joe America. Joe Sixpack. I don't know what the Canadian equivalent of that is. I don't know. I don't know. It's like what? Francois. Pierre Maple Roll.

I don't know what it would be. Francois Poutine. Yeah. Pierre Poutine, I think, would be the name there for him. That's pretty good, yeah. You got to have alliteration in it. Pierre Poutine, I believe, is our guy. His name's Vince Lee.

I want him to meet another guy named Tommy Neal and another guy named Mick Six. I would love it. And just have everybody from Motley Crue with backward names. That would be wonderful. That'd be a great band idea. Anybody out there,

if you're looking to start a band you don't have a lot of original ideas just be a motley crew cover band and play change change all your names names around have the tommy lee guy play bass you know what i mean have the vince neal guy drum you know just do it that way and switch them all around it'd be fucking hilarious nobody would know what was going on i'll i'll go to a state fair for that i would too like i saw the bad company cover band at the seafood festival in beacon new york that we went to a couple weeks ago and um it was like 92 degrees out and these guys were really giving it hard and i'm just like these poor bastards no one's looking at them at all and they were good they weren't bad

like this i mean they were good in terms of like they sounded like bad company for whatever that's worth that's good you know that's what they were going for right kudos to you anyway so here we are he um he so he's working at the grant memorial church for about six months here you know him and his wife are yeah making ends meet and um all that sort of thing his The pastor here, Tom Caster the pastor. I love this. Tom Caster? Tom Caster, and it's exactly pastor with a C. So Caster the pastor.

He had no choice in the matter. Pierre Poutine and fucking Caster the pastor. This is great. Oh, man. He said about Lee, I think he would occasionally feel frustrated with not being able to communicate or understand but we have a very patient staff and he seemed to respond well and so said he seemed to enjoy his time there and everything like that now they want to move

to edmonton in 2006 and he he goes first vince goes first and leaves his wife in winnipeg and then she joins him later when he sets shit up. I don't know. Sometimes people do that. I don't know. Now he has an array of jobs. Talking Walmart. He works at McDonald's.

He's doing newspaper deliveries. Does he want to be Canadian or American? That's what I said yeah i was gonna say if he starts smoking meth we're just gonna just slap a trucker hat on him and give him a fucking trailer in indiana and i think we have ourselves a new resident you know what i mean there you go buddy west virginia's this way come on you'll fit right now you'll fit right in ever snort pills off the back of a toilet no well we are gonna get you all american we're gonna show you a thing or two that's right buddy here's a big fat sandwich and some fucking pills to snort off the back of a goddamn toilet bowl in a west virginia bar slash casino come on buddy all aboard so um anyway he's

doing all this shit though he's working hard his boss at the delivery center a guy named vincent augert he described him as very very hard working very hard working man and uh he said hard working almost stereotypical no that's not what he said uh he said um four weeks before um uh this bus is going on he got actually lee got fired from walmart because he got in an argument with other employees i don't know over what i don't know what they were arguing over he wanted to roll back the prices a little more and they didn't want i don't know what the deal was but it's not far enough yeah he got fired from that and then he ends up he wanted to take time off of his delivery job to go to winnipeg for a job interview he said okay so that's how he ends up on the bus he's trying to make a a better life at a better job interview so on the bus here um uh

lee had been traveling because we we were talking about him and mclean both being on the bus at the same time in uh on july 30th this this trip started on July 29th for Lee. About 6pm he got off the bus in Erickson, Manitoba with at least three pieces of luggage. So he got on a little later so this is interesting. He

stays in Erickson the whole day and night and then the whole rest of the night and then he gets on the bus there the next day. So it's like 24 hours he stays in Erickson he had three pieces of luggage he stayed the night on a bench next to a grocery store that night

I don't know if all the buses out were full or what the hell was going on but that's what he chooses to do him and his luggage sleeping next to the grocery store he was seen at 3 a.m. sitting upright with his eyes open. So he was just sitting there, I guess, hard to sleep. So the next morning, he's still on the bench hanging out.

He digs up a laptop that he had that's reasonably new, pretty new laptop. And there's a 15-year-old boy walking by, a kid named Darren Beattie. And he just says, you want to buy this laptop? $60. What? Yeah, so bargain. It's a pretty new laptop. This kid's like, shit, yeah, let's, fuck yeah, I'll take the laptop.

So why not? So after that, he's sitting around. He waits until the 655 bus, I guess, to leave Erickson. And that's when he boards this bus where Tim McLean is one row from the bathroom. So there you go. Here we go. He gets on the bus. Now, Lee's pretty tall guy, too. He's not a he's, you know, way bigger than McLean anyway. Pretty tall guy. He's got shaved head, like short hair. Pretty tall guy. He's got shaved head, like short hair.

He's wearing sunglasses. And he originally sits in the front of the bus, Lee. Lee gets on, sits down. He ends up moving, though, more to the back of the bus after a rest stop. There's a pisser stop. And don't they have a bathroom? What do they need rest for? I don't know what's going on.

The drivers have to stop? Maybe. I don't know. I guess the driver would need to pee after a while that small compartment that can't be easy yeah and you have to the driver has to piss once in a while too there's probably rules about having to stop every so often for 15 minutes and i'll bet you're right stretch your driving legs or something i don't know how this works, especially so. So Lee ends up getting he sits in the front at first. There are 30, 37 passengers on total, 37 passengers on a bus driver. That's how this is. This is working. How old do you think?

A big old girl. I don't know. I don't know. 37 seems like a lot. It seems like a lot. But they said it's not packed. So I think I think there's a lot of spaces open and seats and shit like that. So either way, after the stop, Lee heads back and ends up sitting near McLean, like across right next to him, sort of.

You know what I mean? So apparently McLean just kind of nodded to him, whatever, just kind of chilling. And then McLean put his headphones on and leaned up against the window and fell asleep. There he is. So you want to sleep through a Greyhound bus through fucking Manitoba. You want to sleep through that. That sounds like you're not just looking out the window going, oh, the glory of the potato fields. Wow.

They're so golden this time of year, aren't they? Like, no. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple

Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So it's not easy to be on those. No, absolutely not. So people are like, it's half people are napping. Some people are reading, whatever. There's a movie playing, actually.

They play movies on Greyhounds. I had no idea they did that. What do they play? The Legend of Zorro is what they were playing. It's 2009. It was the 2005 Anthony fucking, well, not Anthony. Antonio. Antonio, Anthony.

Hey, Antony. Antony Banderas. Hey, Antony Banderas-o, come over here. Hey, your ma said you wasn't around today. fucking we're not anthony antonio anthony hey anthony anthony venderis hey anthony venderis oh come over here hey your ma said you wasn't around today why you around today no um anthony venderos anthony venderos oh my god katherine zeta jones is in that so either way these that's he's part of the knockoff motley crew anthony venderos so either way that's what they're watching all is calm half the people are sleeping half the people are watching Zorro some people are dicking around whatever it is yeah it's a bleak scene on the gray man so and a carny sleeps against a window it's it's interesting so point um out of nowhere vince lee uh pulls out of we assume his bag he just pulls a huge knife out

okay a giant knife um the man be in front of them this is what he said his name is garrett katan and he said he heard a quote blood curdling scream oh boy and he said quote i turned around and the guy sitting right behind me was standing up and stabbing the other guy with a big rambo knife right in the throat repeatedly oh god yeah vince just stood up with this giant rambo knife as it's's put. The guy's three feet away. That's what he says. And just starts hacking Tim McLean in the neck and throat while McLean's sleeping against the windowpane. Oh, dear God.

Totally unprovoked. They never had a conversation. They never had any contact, really. They've just been sitting there. And he starts doing this. It gets way worse, okay? As shocking as this is all over people right oh man it's spraying god everywhere in an enclosed space like a fucking

greyhound bus it's got to be on the windows of the bus all over all over anthony's face up on the screen it's fucking disgusting zoro's got a new mask oh man it is nasty shit this is terrible so they start I guess McLean even though he's being stabbed he's awoken in the adrenaline of being attacked and fighting for your life he's trying to fight the guy off apparently he's taking

carnies don't take no shit you can probably you've had to fight some people off at the carnival I'm not trying to make fun at this point literally he can probably handle himself you know what I mean he's had to fight some people off at the carnival. I'm not trying to make fun at this point. Literally, he can probably handle himself. You know what I mean? So he's trying to fight Lee off of this whole deal. And while he's doing that, obviously, as soon as this happens, the bus driver pulls over to the side of the road.

They don't just, what's going on back there? Keep it down! Looking at the big fucking, turning up Zorro. Just turn it up a little bit this is my favorite part i don't want to hear that so no none of that the bus driver pulls right over so while this attack is going on everybody takes off and tries to get the fuck out of the bus obviously this isn't a scene you really want to be around i don't want to stick around and see what happens you know get us all hey what's going on yeah i going to sit and just watch it like it's on TV.

No. So Catan also said that witness to this. He said it was amazing how calm Lee was. He said, quote, there was no rage or anything. He was like a robot stabbing the guy. What the fuck? Oh, my God. Okay.

So he stabs and stabs and stabs. Oh, my God. Okay. So he stabs and stabs and stabs. And everybody, I hope you're not currently eating. Let's just put it that way. He stabs and stabs and stabs. Okay.

He kills McLean, apparently. Hopefully he's dead because from then he takes his giant, quote, Rambo knife and begins to saw McLean's head off. Jesus Christ. Right there and fucking second from the back row of the Greyhound. Right on the bus. Right on the bus. Right in the seat they were sitting. Imagine if there's someone in the shitter while this is going on. Oh, dear Lord.

You'd never come out. You'd figure out a way to get out through the fucking drain i mean that's i'd crawl out like leonardo dicaprio and catch me if you can i'd go through the toilet yeah like frank and and always sunny when he's tripping he's trying to put his foot in it this is insane he actually cuts his head all the way off of his body yeah he completely decapitates him at that point then the passengers are outside the bus you can see everything through the fucking windows a lot of the windows are open because it's you know warm out um it's july he holds the head up by the hair and shows everybody why displays it to all the what is happening why is he doing it um okay so he does that that's another question that we'll get to but right now he's not done doing it yet this is a

weird way to earn your citizenship he's already got it this is a weird way to fucking protest you're firing from a walmart probably i don't know so katan the witness he said quote i got sick after i saw the head thing some people were puking and some were crying some people were just in shock the the guy just looked at us and dropped the head on the ground totally calm this this is fucking disturbing so the police are called while he's doing all this because it took him a minute to get the head off i mean while as soon as they got off the bus i mean the police are called while he's doing all this because it took him a minute to get the head off i mean while as soon as they got off the bus i mean the police are called so they're coming pretty quick there's a guy on a bus fucking stabbing somebody to death will draw a crowd so by the time they get there he's got the head off already and of poor tim mclean and the

a police officer they have their um recording of the tape of their radio going back and forth. And Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers refer to the attacker as Badger. It's like his code name. I don't know why. We get code names in Canada? Suspect will work fine probably, but I guess Badger. It's more Canadian Badger. It's a nature thing

it's they tried beaver but everybody giggled a lot and this guy's from dandong and that didn't work so they're like you know what let's just go with badger so uh badger here he uh they say that badgers armed with a knife and scissors and is quote defiling the body at the front of the bus as we speak. He's doing more to it? Yeah, he's not near done yet, Jimmy. What the shit? On the tape, which is like a minute and a half about, the officers go back and forth about his movement until one of the guys says, and I quote, badgers at the back of the bus

hacking off pieces and eating them oh wow he starts eating him just he's cutting pieces off a raw person yeah who's barely dead it's not like he there's blood he's covered in blood the whole place is a fucking blood bath it's like the hallway in the shining probably for fuck's sake what happened and he is eating this man at this point uh this headless man so apparently during all of this there was a two men the bus driver and another man we'll talk about a long haul truck driver named christopher alguire yeah who happened to be right there he pulled his truck over when he saw a big commotion on the side of the road and he was like what's going on and then the guy showed everyone

the head and he's like holy shit so apparently um they they were trying to um they wanted to like get on the bus and help see if they could do anything here and um so yeah they said that holy shit this is fucking crazy so the truck driver elguir says that he had like a meter long metal rod in his truck he's like i'm a big trucker i got a metal rod i could probably fucking whack this knife out of his hand and beat this guy to death in the fucking bus if i really wanted to so he had been loading a haul of metal pipes from al back to Manitoba. So, I mean, you need a pipe. There you go.

And he saw the bus, and there you go. So he saw passengers running away screaming. And someone yelled at him through his window as he passed by. That's why he stopped, that there was a man stabbing someone on board. Like, can you call with your radio? Someone help. So he pulled over, grabbed the metal bar. What a trucker thing to do.

Pull the truck over, jump out, hold the metal bar what a trucker thing to do pull the truck over jump out hold no metal bar walking to the back like who's got a fucking i'll bash somebody's skull somebody needs a beating i can dole it that is like in every movie that has a trucker in it anywhere at some point they jump out with a metal rod in their hand ready for action so this is perfect foot pipe with a three foot pipe i got a whole load of these too so don't you fuck with me i'll go get more from the back the only one i got a semi i got four ton of pipe back here don't mess with me so he grabbed the metal bar which is used to secure shit on his truck and he sprinted for the bus and uh he said the driver was kind of in shock.

So they had a second driver, I guess, that was like the backup driver here that was there. Well, I know another Greyhound stopped, apparently, to see what was going on. That driver got out. This guy's like, hey, there's some crazy shit going on in there. I got a metal pipe. Let's get it on and go in there. Want to trade buses, sir? Yeah. Why don't you just forget everyone on his bus fuck this so al guayas also said he was familiar with weapons

and martial arts so he was like okay i know what i'm doing but i guess the driver the driver holding the door closed i guess they were trying to keep it they were he was trying to keep it closed from the other side and they were trying to keep people out he was trying to keep them out lee was so they ended up getting in the bus these two they board the bus to see if there's any passengers trapped they said uh old wires got the fucking metal rod standing up they're in the back of the bus he's eating a man lee's eating a fucking man they said they saw him leaning over the body hacking at its neck with a knife and they were like holy fucking shit then the man stood up and looked at them as they came in down the aisle with

the head in his hand he was like oh i have this head so i don't know if you want to come any closer so he said he had a split decision to make at that point al goyer i don't know if you want to come any closer so he said he had a split decision to make at that point al goyer i don't think you have a decision his head's already gone this is none of my i'm not saving anybody here what am i just gonna fight this guy you just put yourself in a dangerous position people get paid for this shit yeah you know like not me people with guns pay for they get paid for this shit they got much better protection than a fucking bar. I mean, yeah, I get it that you're tough and everything, but Christ. So he said, quote, at 10 feet away, it's a deadly weapon beach.

You can throw it, meaning the knife, he said. So he said so fast and so hard. If the guy had any experience in throwing, he could stick it in my chest very quickly or in my throat or in my head. He said my duty was to make sure that no one else was exposed to his rage. Your duty? Your duty is to get those pipes to Manitoba, sir. That's your fucking duty. You're a trucker.

It's a nice thought. It's a nice thought. But once the guy's dead, you go, whoop, okay, the fucking cow's out of the barn or horse is out of the fucking whatever the hell it is not my pig not my farm also you you've made this your duty you didn't yeah no one asked people just said there's a guy stabbing someone and he's like have rod we'll travel let's go so he's won't work for food yeah so then they jumped off the bus and slammed the door closed that's what he decided. My duty was to make sure no one was exposed to his rage, but I changed my mind and jumped off the bus. By the way, if someone has a knife, my first thought is never they're going to throw it at me.

A knife is a fucking close range instrument usually. It's never, what is he, a ninja? Did he think like, well, he looks Chinese. What if he could be a ninja? And I've seen them movies where they'll just throw it at you and it'll stick. It's not a star, but I feel like he could do it. I know martial arts, but I saw him and I knew he was from the Orient. And I was like, I'm overmatched. I just bowed and walked away.

That's what I did. So, Jesus Christ. Alguire then said he walked up to the door and put his head right up to my face through the glass and waved the knife at me once they came out. Menacing. Then he said he turned around and put the head on the floor in front of me so I could see it. Like right in front of the door. Like, there you go. If you want to come back in, you can fuck with this with this head.

He also said about Lee's eyes they were empty it was like staring into a black hole yeah that seems about right then league hops in the driver's seat of the bus and tries to crank it up now he's gonna go and now we're gonna have a bus chase but the driver had hit the emergency disable switch so it's disabled he can't he can't start it he can't make it go yeah otherwise he'd have to keep it above 55 miles an hour which would have been really difficult for everybody and then dennis hopper got on board disturbing so i don't hear about keanu anywhere in this situation at all pop quiz hot shot so then lee gave up on that and was like well i guess fucking never mind driving so he just

went back to the body and began severing other off other body parts just cutting some things off eating some things just kind of having like making mud pies back there with a human being like a fucking psychopath christmas turkey that's all so at 8 30 p.m this is about an hour and a half after this whole thing started um or no this is shortly after it started i apologize that's all so at 8 30 p.m this is about an hour and a half after this whole thing started um or no this is shortly after it started i apologize that's when the cops got there and all that sort of thing um when the cops got there they got there right after the uh right after the truck driver and the bus bus driver had run off the bus and that's when they saw him sitting back there eating shit so they said you know people are throwing up all over the side of the road.

There's just people covered in blood, crying and throwing up on the side of the road. So it's quite the fucking scene. By nine o'clock, the police are in a standoff with him. They've summoned special negotiators and the heavily armed tactical unit. You know, they might have to take this guy off by force. unit you know they might have to take this guy off by force he would lee would taught the police and would alternately pace the length of the bus back and forth and then would go back to mclean and begin cutting pieces oh my god and eating them in front of the cops and going look at this and like you know ripping pieces of flesh apart with his teeth this is what happened vince uh this is fucking insane so

they observed him eating everything uh when they tried to to talk to him you know to negotiate hey when you're gonna come off bud you almost done there yeah he said quote i have to stay on the bus forever forever forever so that's all there is to it that's that's not sustainable my i mean it's really not it's a very short-sighted plan but that's his plan i have to stay on forever so this goes on until 1 30 a.m the standoff the standoff right he then tries to escape from the bus by breaking through a window and running away. So much for forever. Yeah, he got tired of it. I have to stay here forever or five hours.

Or a few hours more because there's a show I want to watch that's on pretty soon. 1 a.m., he can't take it anymore. Yeah, so they go after him. They have to tase him twice to get him to chill the fuck out. They handcuff him and they get him in the cop car. Finally, after all that. When they search him, Jimmy. Oh, no.

They search him. He puts stuff in his pockets. They find a white plastic bag, like a shopping bag, you know, like you get at the grocery store, crumpled up in his pocket. They pull it out. Inside the bag is an ear, a nose and the mouth and tim's mouth he took them with him he took them with him and put them in a plastic bag put them in his pocket it was like well now that i have this he did like a steve martin in the jerk he was like all i need is this

remote control and this paddle ball game and then he was in this mouth burst through the fucking window and was like as long as i have these to munch on later i'm good and tried to take off um yeah it's it's fucking insane inexplicable they get on the bus and there are parts of him cut apart that are in other plastic bags he just has plastic bags full of flesh like sitting in different places on the bus that he just was cutting apart. Yeah, oh, his tongue was also in. Of course it was. His tongue was in his other pocket.

He didn't have that in the plastic bag. He just kind of pocket. He was in a hurry. He had to pocket the tongue real quick. This is horrific. They never found Tim's heart or eyes. What? And they assume that's what Lee ate. Yeah. Because they never found tim's heart or eyes and they assume that's what lee ate yeah because they never found them anywhere that's crazy or eyes um holy shit so um after that greyhound representatives took

the other passengers to a local mall to replace their clothes. Come on, everybody. Let's go to the mall after that. Let's go to the Gap, everybody. Let's shop. Everybody up for some Auntie Anne's pretzels? Come on, guys. Let's go. What the fuck are you talking about? I don't want to go to Banana Republic now.

This is terrible. This is awful. Take us to the hospital for fuck's sake. Jesus Christ, man. So that's what they do. They finally arrived in winnipeg at 3 30 the next day that's the saddest bus arrival of all time that group just as horrified puke on their chins yeah holy shit skatchewan shirts oh just oh god so he lee goes to court

and he's charged with second degree murder and they said we're gonna get you a lawyer you know blah blah blah would you like a this or that do you want said, we're going to get you a lawyer, you know, blah, blah, blah. Would you like this or that? Do you want a lawyer? And his response to do you want a lawyer is, please kill me. So that's what he says, which is not part of the Canadian, I don't believe, their processes. Well, I don't believe you can ask to be executed at your initial hearing. And then they just, they're like all right

take them out back i don't think that's how it works feed them to the moose yeah that's a fate them to the badgers that's why we call them that i don't know why we gave canadians fucking panhandle accents but we it's being handled as such so it's fine it's panhandle wait a whole hang on to your hat jimmy boy so he appears in court with bandages all over him because he cut himself all up while he did this as well. He's got bruises on him. He did a bunch of weird shit in there. He's fucking nuts. So he's being held there.

He's going to have to go under a psychological assessment, undergo one of those, obviously, to determine whether he's fit to stand trial. Okay. Now, reaction to Tim dying. This is fit to stand trial. Okay. Now reaction to Tim dying. This is from a fellow Carney. Okay. Fellow Carney said she worked with him a long time, said, quote,

I was like, I hope to God there's another Tim McLean. He was a sweetheart. He was tiny. We called him tiny Tim. Clever. Then she says he was such a sweetheart. I can't think of anybody who would not miss him to anyone who knew him he was uh he was that bright bubbly happy guy he was always out for fun

i already miss him i miss him too already jesus that's terrible now the boss at the newspaper place that lee worked at he said quote he was always very punctual and always cleanly dressed he was a very nice polite guy we would have had no reason to let him go before all this happened obviously now we we terminated his employment but before this before he ate a guy we really had no reason to fire him he's always neatly dressed except for that one night on a gray yeah except for the night he had fucking ears in his pocket. That was a different kind of night. Wow.

Then he said, quote, I had no odd suspicions about him at all. His wife, Anna, who now is alone in Canada, said she was shocked and very much afraid as to what this was going to mean for her own life. Are people going to hate me now? going this was going to mean for her own life are people going to hate me now um now the mcleans this is the family released a statement to the press calling him quote a little guy with a heart bigger than you knew oh you can't you can't say that this is part well you can't you can't say that when a man ate his heart you can't say that that. Well, yeah, that was the Jared Wyatt thing. You can't say that. Bigger than you could know.

It's enough to. Oh, I can't even. It's a whole meal. You bastards. You can't say that. Oh, my God. Jesus, that is horrible. And they called him a little guy, which I feel like is even.

Let's insult him and then make a terrible joke about how he was eaten. God damn it. that's to say we've had this once in in crime and sports a guy named jared white so we were like it's that they said the same thing about the guy who he killed and we're like don't say that please wrong so holy shit they said he was a stubborn soul and a kind one that's what his uncle said he made friends effortlessly disliked no one and accepted everyone for who they were he was a charmer who loved to smile and you could never take a plate of food away from him why would you want to who's taking food away from people

leave timmy alone maybe he'd be bigger if he'd stop trying to take his food away so greyhound you want to hear a what oh god you want to hear a bad fucking ad campaign that they had out at the time. They had billboards and press shit all out that said, quote, there's a reason you've never heard of bus rage. So they said, quote, we've stopped any production of any ads that were going to be out and anything that was still up we asked to be removed immediately. Turns out you heard of it. Turns out, holy shit, this is way worse than any other rage we've ever heard of i at the end of a road rage incident someone's doesn't have someone else's fucking eyes in their pocket and their head in their hand like and their heart in their stomach like a fatality at mortal combat like that's crazy wow now lee lee has no history of mental issues while he was growing up anyway as a child

he was fine he was frequently sick he was like the fragile kid always yeah that's all we know he had a maternal uncle that had a mental illness but nobody else in his family so it wasn't like every you know any kind of yeah oh he comes from those crazy fucks or anything. He has no history of truancy, vandalism, behavioral difficulties, even during his teen years. He was a good student in both high school and college. He was good at his jobs. Everybody said he was studious and dressed clean and all that bullshit here. In 2005, he had gotten a divorce for some reason from Anna. He went back to China, got a divorce, came back, but then they stayed together even though they weren't technically married at this point.

It was very odd. So Anna does say that in the summer of 2004, he started acting weird following several days where he did not sleep or eat regularly. Yeah, some kind of mental problem. She said he cried a lot and told me he saw God. That's a bad sign. Get that kid a doctor. That's not a good sign. She thought he was just tired and bought him sleeping pills.

So she said it would pop up every once in a while, this weird condition. So we knock him out? So just go to sleep, you crazy fuck. That's what she said, rather than, hey, let's get you some help. knock him out so just go to sleep you crazy fuck that's what she said rather than hey let's get you some help she was like just go to sleep stupid jesus like treat yeah um wow he had one admission to a psychiatric hospital in 2005 i guess uh he was picked up by police walking on the highway on his way back from uh to winnipeg from toronto that's very far by the way he was gonna walk that you can't walk that that's a you know it's forrest gump can run that far but

you can't it's just not good so they took him in but he didn't seek further psychiatric help and then that was that um according to some port reports though he said that he experienced in july of 2008 he had experienced auditory hallucinations oh no this all happened in which the voice of god told him to move from edmonton to winnipeg that's why he suddenly left and his wife was left behind because god told him to move now so in erickson when he left the house or he left the bus and he slept on the bench and all that kind of shit he said he had other auditory hallucinations and got rid of his possessions then he bordered i boarded another bus and he thought that god was angry at him for not following his instructions strictly enough so he thought he did anger god he said so he was like fuck um he said that um you know this whole

thing is obviously you know he just burst out and did this then after that so um it's pretty fucking odd honestly um it's pretty odd but he it's basically well we'll get into exactly what he said about him but he thinks he's an alien there in a nutshell. He said it was, he was an alien and he had to kill him. He thought it was a paranoid delusion. So, um, his friends, Vince's or, um, uh, Tim's friends here said that he was such lost a kind soul. It was always like he was, it was always as if he was looking for something about Tim. And then they said about Vince, uh, he needed help, but he just wouldn't get it. As friends kept saying.

And then at one point he, I guess made a surprise trip to somebody, somebody's house that was lived in the middle of nowhere that he knew. And he said he was thinking of looking at some land around there and buying it. And the woman said, I don't think he had any money, but I don't know what he was talking about.

Then he started talking about how, uh, there was, they were after him all the time people just they it's a general they um which is fucking weird another his boss just said though um i've been doing this for 21 years and i can judge the type of people that uh were hiring he was just a normal guy or so he thought to read about this it just totally gives me shivers i'm a great judge of character except for the guy who ate him guy i didn't i missed that one missed the boat on that one but usually i'm pretty good that's what he said right over me

right over there now uh during the pre-trial thing they um they want to he wants to say that he did it but he's crazy that's's his whole thing. It's insanity. So the prosecutor said that in 18 years of prosecutions, he's never dealt with a case with the horrific details that we've all been hearing. I can't think of another one like it, saying that it seemed random, which made it even fucking weirder. So they send him to go to two different psychiatrists, one for the defense, one for the, you know, the crown, they call it one for the country here. So they said they're going to present their findings. If he's found not criminally responsible, he could be turned over to the Manitoba review board, which would determine whether he has received sufficient medical treatment to be

returned to the community. So there you go. Now, other collateral damage. There's people that are all fucked up, by the way, from this whole thing. Yeah, I am. And everyone listening. But one of the passengers gave birth a couple years later, and she has such bad PTSD from the whole thing that her baby got taken away from her and shit. And it was like three years later.

Wow. It totally, completely fucked this poor woman up she's a she has nightmares she can't go go be in public and all this shit because she thinks everybody's gonna stab her in the neck which just seems reasonable at that point for her uh it's it's pretty fucking crazy um so the trucker also says he has ptsd yeah he said that um after the after 10 10 years later he said after years, I've never stopped mourning the life of Timothy McLean. He says that he has, quote, I've become an alcoholic to help me sleep at night. I know better and I don't think my reaction is surprising to anyone. However, I hate what challenges me daily now.

Holy. Yeah. So he pleads, not criminally responsible, Lee, at the trial. He pleads not criminally responsible Lee at the trial. The psychiatrist says that Lee performed the attack because God's voice told him that McLean was a force of evil and about to execute him. Psychiatrist says that he has schizophrenia. And at this point and the presiding judge who this is a bench trial, by the way. So it's up to the judge the judge decides that he accepts the diagnosis and ruled that lee is not criminally responsible for the murder

what in fuck's sake he's remanded to a mental health center for how long forever oh no it's a review like every year he comes up for review oh my god so the reaction of the family obviously tim's mother said under no circumstances do i ever want this man walking free in public again this shouldn't be acceptable to anyone they can treat him that's fine but it has to be done in a locked facility for the rest of his days anything less than that is not justice i don't think he could be cured treated yes but not cured he's unpredictably dangerous that's the best way to put unpredictably dangerous that's the title of this show that's that is fucking crazy man the man couldn't take

things were going on between the ears and he couldn't take the the voices and he stabbed someone and ate someone and took them apart and ate them raw in front of people that showed people hey look at the head look what i got you can't have him around people show and tell the mother also said i'm absolutely terrified of him and his capabilities i think he'd do it again i'm going to fight to keep everyone safe from him if that means going to court every year i'll go every year instead of birthday parties i'll be at not criminally responsible hearings not a girl ma yeah um in june 2010 he was granted supervised outdoor walks um they recommended he be given hospital ground passes where there are two people walk with him and you know make sure that he

doesn't freak out and stab anybody and eat them so he's making good progress though his doctor dr stanley yarn said it's really a guess but i'm going to say a time frame of when within stab anybody and eat them. So he's making good progress, though. His doctor, Dr. Stanley Yarin, said, it's really a guess, but I'm going to say a time frame of within five years is not unrealistic. That's ridiculous. He said, relatively speaking, his response to treatment, he's been better than average. And he also says, and Lee gave me permission to say this,

he's getting better. Oh, God. Yeah, he's getting better. He also, the doctor doctor said he wanted to meet the family and apologize to them but they were like no thanks we're good um in may 2012 he speaks finally he does an interview and he said he bought the knife used in the attack from for protection quote from the aliens yeah that was the whole point he said that he didn't know he he suffered from any mental illness he said the voice told me that That was the whole point. He said that he didn't know he suffered from any mental illness.

He said, the voice told me that I was the third story of the Bible and that I was like the second coming of Jesus and that I was to save people from this space alien attack. Yeah, he's getting better. Yeah, he's getting great. Second Jesus. I was going to say, this guy's ready to run for prime minister, I think. He's up. He's ready to go. Second Jesus, space alien attacks, buying knives.

This is perfect. He said, I was really scared. I remember cutting off his head. I believed he was an alien. The voices told me to kill him, that he would kill me or others. I do not believe this now. Well, that's helpful. Thanks.

That happened in your head man and you're getting better from that how do you come back from that fuck that well he also said he was quote really sorry i'm really sorry does that help um no i don't think it does february 2017 they said quote the review board of is of the opinion that the weight of evidence does not substantiate that he poses a significant threat to the safety of the public he is released into the public stop it not only is he released he gets his name changed he changes his fucking name his name is will baker now that's his name what will be be like? What's the most will Baker will Baker's. Yeah, that's his.

The will Baker is his new name. Oh, my God. Yeah. Is that a threat? Is he going to put a woman in a fucking oven now? Yeah. Will the Baker. They said he's been a model citizen.

He lives every day with remorse about what he did. And he knows that what he did was atrocious. So he'll never forgive himself. But society has nothing to worry about really because as the review board noted when they gave him an absolute discharge he was at low risk of re-offending everybody relax i guess it's fine what the fuck in nine years he's out that is insanity so he mclean has a kid from that. McLean, he's got a 15-year-old kid that was born at that. They never met him because this guy cut his head off. And it's like, hey, you're good.

You're fine. The mother, Tim's mother, said, to me, Vincent Lee is not a monster. He's just, oh, no, no. That's the, sorry, this is the doctor. To me, Vincent Lee is not a monster. He's just someone that unfortunately went through an undiagnosed medical illness no the the family says we're trying to move on but it's still very very hard i don't think we'll ever get over it yeah that's exactly right there you go so uh enjoy everybody that's will's out there sleep tight canada what the fuck canada holy jesus wow you're we love you and you're very nice but that's one where we go hey that's a little too nice right you can maybe back off

the nice guys that's holy shit what he took other parts too and cut things off it he had americans are never allowing that well i mean would. I'm sure it happens more often, but it would be more satisfying for the family to not have him be out in eight years. That's a little. Oh, boy. That's fucking crazy. So anyway, if you enjoyed that show, you're sick as fuck and you didn't eat before you listen. But tell everyone you liked it. Get on whatever app you're listening on.

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And until then, everyone, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder

rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee

Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.