Small Town Murder - #318 - A Fantasy Of Violence - Tillamook, Oregon

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

This week, in Tillamook, Oregon, a father surprises his loving & upstanding family with a trip, up the Oregon coast, for a couple of days. This sounds great, until everyone comes up missing. Four of the five family members are found, deep in a National Forest area, but police & FBI don't know if Dad is a victim, or a terribly cold blooded murderer! A nationwide manhunt leads authorities everywhere besides where he actually wasWhen he's caught, he remains polite, but the story he tells is anything but nice. A horrific tale, that will leave so many questions, and a trail of awfulness!! Was he trying to trade in his former life, for a life of living in "dirt houses" & killing for a living?!?!Along the way, we find out that Oregon is very proud of their cheese, that you don't always want a "surprise", and that you can't just decide to trade in your life, for one that you know nothing about!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Tillamook, Oregon, an upstanding family takes a surprise trip to the coast only for the whole thing to end up with inexplicable carnage and a nationwide manhunt. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another crazy, wild, it's been wild lately and it's not going to get any, it's not going to slow down any, we'll put it that way. This train is on a straight track toward crazy town. So before we get started, thank you for all that you do for us.

You want to head to shutupandgivememurder.com now. And you certainly want to get tickets to the virtual live show. Oh, we're so excited. October the 27th. Halloween themed. It's going to be creepy, gross, spooky, weird, whatever you want to call it. Just like a regular live show. If you've never done a virtual live before. Just like a regular live show.

Just like you were going to a theater except you're in your house. We're in a studio, but we're going to broadcast it the same way with the screen and the pictures and the whole setup. So fun. You go there, you go to shotupandgivememurder.com

or you go to moment.co slash smalltownmurder. You get tickets and they are good for a week. So seven days after the show as well so you can watch it a bunch of times. You can wait till Halloween to watch it if you want. You can do anything you want with it for a week.

Good stuff. Get those tickets right now. Also at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com you are going to find tickets to regular live shows in person. Number one, this week, if you're listening right away, this week we're in Tampa. Two shows at the Tampa Improv, September the 23rd, Friday night,

and two different shows so come see us in Orlando. That late show I think still has a few tickets. The early show's been sold out for a bit so get your tickets to that the next night on September 24th. Thank you. Come and see us. We can't wait. New tour being announced soon by the way in the next couple months. Patreon.com

slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of the bonus material. So much good stuff. Every other week you're going to get two new episodes. You get the whole back catalog for anybody. Five dollars or above a cup of coffee. So this week, what you're going to get is for crime and sports. You're going to get sex scandals.

Part three. And you will have access to that and everything else. We're going to continue the Duke thesis, the Duke senior thesis there. And then there's a couple other crazy scandals to get into. A guy having to read his poetry to his sister-in-law in court. That's very weird. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about how there's certain people who I guess you could call them lucky because they happen to be serial killers and they just happen to be in the mafia at the same time and so it's very odd when in every other aspect of life being a serial killer really dampens all of your other prospects sure does in the mafia it makes you a star

you're a star if you can dismember people in a bathtub in a social club's basement with little consequence to your own personal well-being, you're a star. So we're going to talk about a few of those people like Tommy Karate Patera and a couple guys like that. We'll get into that crazy stuff. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Quick disclaimer, this is a comedy show. We're comedians. We're going to tell about an awful murder, obviously, or several in this case.

And there's going to be jokes. But what we do not do, what we go out of our way not to do, is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's how that works. And there's plenty of other stuff to make fun of, trust us, and every other aspect.

So that said, if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe you won't like the show. I don't know. But you might like it. That's the thing. Give it a shot. Either you won't like the show. I don't know. But you might like it. That's the thing. Give it a shot. Either way, no bitching afterwards. I don't want to hear it.

I mean, we warned you. That said, Jimmy, I think it's time to sit back. Wherever you are out there, your living rooms and everything like that. By the way, the Milwaukee shut up and give me murder at the Pabst was unbelievable. Our hair blew back. It was crazy. Even Jimmy's hair blew back. It was crazy. Even Jimmy's hair blew back. It was wild.

So thank you for doing that. On my legs. Everywhere. I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We shall. Let's do it. We are going this week all the way to Oregon. Yeah. Up to the northwest. We haven't had a regular-length Oregon episode in a while, so it's needed here. We're going to Tillamook, Oregon. Yeah, the cheese.

And the ice cream, yeah. They make a fine ice cream, too. Lots of dairy. That's the Tillamook factory there. Is that where it's at? Oh, yeah. They're all about it. The whole town revolves around the creamery.

I'm not even kidding. That's what it is. The kayaking and creamery. That's the whole town. It's in northwestern Oregon. It's west of Portland over on the water there. Oh, it's all the way up there. Oh, yeah.

It's about an hour and a half away from Portland. Oh. About four and a all the way up there. Oh, yeah. It's about an hour and a half away from Portland. Oh. About four and a half hours south of Seattle. And then about a little over two hours to Gresham, Oregon, which was our last full-length Oregon episode. Episode 240, long time ago. Over a year ago. The threesome from hell that was.

Oh, yeah. That was a crazy episode, too. I remember that one. Tillamook County, this is, in addition to the town. Area code 503. This is a little town. Like like it's less than two square miles little town what oh yeah a little tiny town and then there's you know kind of forest around it this is sure right outside of this town starts the tillamook national forest which is a large area of forest and that's kind of where our story takes place i can't wait to learn more about that it's pretty wild here so nicknames of this town the land of many waters they call it there's a

lot of there's a lot of water so that makes sense the land of cheese which that's better i get i get it but there's already a wisconsin and we were just there wisconsin's gotta be pissed i don't care how much cheese you make there you cannot overtake wisconsin as the land of cheese like it's every exit on the highway is yeah visit these four five six places that sell cheese right off of this highway in the middle of nowhere there are kiosks in the airport that sell nothing but t-shirts and cheese and cheese you can get as you buy your shirt pick up a bag of that squeak cheese how about that how about some curds because we got them it's literally at the airport when you go and there's like the little the little stores that have like water and all that there are big big blocks of cheese like you're just gonna walk around the airport eating that stick that in my pocket and get on this plane

nod at like a hand fruit what it's a huge block. It's like a pound of cheese. It's hilarious. That's the only place I've seen, too, that has walking beers and walking cheese. You can grab a beer and then a little sack of cheese and go wander around the airport. Just peel it back like a banana. It's true. So weird. Then there's the land of cheese, trees, and ocean breeze. And they made it rhyme at one point. I kind of like

that sounds like a sounds like a beer commercial ad or something yeah i'd like to see the the dickhead that wrote it no shit holy shit now the history of this town it's named for the tillamook people the native american tribe that were here uh originally they lived here they lived here till the early 1800s they took off pretty early yeah this is a i believe that's the tribe that lewis and clark talk about a lot in their in their um in the whole like the whole diary of lewis and clark and all that kind of shit because that's how they yeah a sack of cheese and everything yeah yeah i'm sure they did they gave him a big they came in and they were like their vanilla ice cream is wonderful that was their first line in

their diary i believe it was clark who called out vanilla ice cream is wonderful. That was their first line in their diary. I believe it was Clark who called out the ice cream. Big fan. Top-notch rocky road in this location. Settlers here, like white people, began arriving in the 1850s here, and Tillamook County was created in 1853. The first settler in the whole area who came from wherever, probably a trapper i would assume it's kind of more people who would wander out this way guy named joseph champion who came in 1851 and he had an interesting way of building a home here this is interesting rather than the traditional way of just building something he found a hollow spruce tree and lived in it yeah why why not why

cut it down and build it into things it's already built it's built he called it his castle and then within a very narrow castle look at this huh he's just wedged in there i'm feeling good i'm gonna get out to masturbate though i have no room for it in here keep knocking my hand into the door i have just it's calloused and broken apart it's all cut up this is my hands just broken so uh then a bunch more settlers came and they were all bachelors bunch of single dudes because you're not talking and convincing a woman to come out here with you she's like i'm not going there there's nothing the guy lives in a tree no i'm not going somewhere where your friend lives in a tree he said it was a castle sell that to your wife no my friend lives in a tree he said

it's too super cool we should just move there he lives in a tree and we're gonna fucking who is this idiot that lives in a tree that we're that's not getting sold at home at all are you telling me he's got a tree house built up in the canopy no no no no he lives right in the fucking hollow it out we could do that too i'm not living in a fucking tree with you bob i'm not doing it okay this is bad enough where we're living now i'm living in a fucking tree with you you're not you don't know how to build anything you won't know you won't build it because you don't know how to build we've been through this before so remember western pennsylvania you remember it yeah Yeah, I do too. Didn't work. Had to have friends help. That's why they're bachelors that come out here.

Yeah. So in 1852, the first two families arrived to try to make their homes here. And each, you know, people, more people came after a little while and a little while and that sort of shit. By 1854, they had an election and they were, you know know out of school and all that kind of shit so they started cranking cranking up a community they laid the town out in 1862 and opened a post office a couple years later and all that kind of shit during world war ii the united states navy operated a blimp a blimp patrol station near this town there's just you'd see the the naval blimp flying around here um the station was decommissioned in 1948, and now it's the Tillamook Air Museum. So they would have the blimp just, I guess, go up and down the coast patrolling because you could see probably a long way up and down. It doesn't use a ton of fuel.

It's slow and steady. Yeah, it's probably just less – more efficient than a plane probably, I would assume, than a jet or whatever. So the reviews of this town – well, there was no jets, but you know what I mean. just less more efficient than a plane probably i would assume than a jet or whatever so uh the reviews of this town well there was no jets you know what i mean the reviews of this town yeah world war ii there were no jets no reviews of this town here we go five stars okay oh i love the small town feel but there's enough tourism to create a larger city feeling. Many land areas are protected so you can see local wildlife without barriers.

That's wonderful. So that sounds nice. That's good. Get attacked by something wild. Get attacked by a grizzly bear. Come on by. Looking for Bigfoot? Maybe you'll find him and he'll eat you.

Come on by. Come through squatching. That's right. Five stars. Awesome small town friendly folks experience! You will love the atmosphere and attention to detail everywhere

in this town. Yeah. That's a strange thing to say. Attention to detail. Three stars. A town where there are more cows than people. Well, okay. That's not a lot of people. I don't like that. Lots of good hike and outdoor stuff, so it's a good place for outdoor people. Not much of a town, though.

Quite small. There are some really good food trucks, though. Not missing much, though. Okay. So keep on driving is what they're saying. Here is one star. This person is very angry at one particular thing about this town. One star. Terrible real estate market. Okay. star this person's very angry at one particular thing about this town one star terrible real

estate market okay been looking to buy a home in tillamook for over eight months there is literally nothing for sale really i'll tell you if there's anything for sale and it and in rare events something does come up you are looking at no less than 500 000 plus for a standard everyday home nothing special this place is by the water the whole thing's kind of on a hillside that overlooks the bay like you're sorry that's expensive what do you want sorry you're priced out of an amazing market you can't live somewhere beautiful it's expensive you know what i mean jimmy lives in fucking the west side of phoenix ask him what it looks like i live in a dirt field because this place sucks because it costs 500 yeah because it costs 500 grand to look at the ocean or the water bay or whatever the

fuck it is um here we go if you are look if you are in need of four bedrooms forget it unless you have over a half million dollars to spend okay realtors around here just pricing it whatever they want because there's no inventory and eventually someone will overpay for it. That's called commerce and supply and demand. If there's no inventory. Welcome to capitalism. What do you want? Low inventory.

I believe that was day one of economics. They go, when there's less shit, it's more expensive if it's a high demand. That's the first thing they told us. When there's a surplus, it's cheap because guess what? Nobody wants it. Especially if the demand is low. Negative equity around here is becoming the norm. When market readjusts and comes back to reality eventually, there'll be a whole lot of people upside down and negative in their loans.

That could be a few years from now. Those paying these extraordinary exorbitant prices will eat it. Good luck. This person hopes. They are hoping for doom and gloom. Wow. That was from mid-2020, and I can tell you the prices have not gone down there. All right.

Yeah, if you bought then, you'd be making a profit right now if you sold. So people, eat it. People in this town, 5,438. That's a lot for this small area. 55.5% female out of males. That's way higher female than male population. It's all the ice cream. I get it.

It's got it. Yeah, they're just like, yeah. I love ice cream. Yeah. I know. Who doesn't love ice cream? The ladies are like, I like the ice cream there. We're going there.

Those waffle sandwiches that they make are insane. Those are good. It's waffle cone waffle. Good products. Good products. Oh, Tillamook's killing it. Their cheese is good, too. Yeah. It's a fine product. It's waffle cone. Good products. Good products. Tillamook's killing it. Their cheese is good, too. It's a fine product.

It's a solid product. The median age here is 34. Most of the people here are like, a lot of the big age groups are 25 to 34 and 0 to 4 years old. So young families with children type of deal. 40% married, which is lower than the national average. Single with children, 30%, is lower than the national average. Single with children, 30%, which is double the national average. A race of this

town, it is 80% white, 0.0% black. How do you do that? Zero points. There's over 5,000 people here. There's not a black guy? You don't know, like, oh yeah, there's not one black guy? That's just weird in America.

Is it 12 or 15 nationwide? It's 12.5%, almost 13%. That's interesting. Yeah, how did you do that? 0.2% Asian, which for the Pacific Coast is extremely low as well. 15.3% Hispanic. So there you got that. And 28% religious, which is super low.

It's usually 50%. And it's spread out pretty good mostly other christian faith so not a lot of anything there 0.0 jewish though that is definitely not around here um and we have in this county in the last presidential election 47.8 democratic 49.5 republican 2.8 independent in Tillamook County. Interesting. Yeah. Unemployment rate here is a little higher than the national average.

There's more like agricultural jobs and shit like that here than forestry, fishing, that sort of thing. Weed? Probably weed at this point, maybe. The median household income here, though, $33,393 a month, or a year, which is way lower than the national average. That's over $20,000 less than the national average. About 45% of the people here make $30,000 or less per year. Oh, my.

Economically, not great. Cost of living, $100,000 is average. Here, it's $99,000, so that's not even that low. No, that's not good at all and the housing is high the median home cost here is 327 200 here so it's it's tough uh if you're looking though if you want to find a place it's going to cost you like that person said we have maybe you can find a hollowed out tree we don't know we have for you the Tillamook, Oregon real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $694.

I don't know if they're not available or what, because that's super low. It's got to be that they're not available. The average two-bedroom, or not average, I found a two-bedroom, one-bath. It's 696 square feet. Tiny. It's small. It's clean inside, but kind of older and a little bit depressing in there.

But $169,000 for that. For 700 square feet? Yeah, small little lot too, but you can actually live there for that. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath, 946 square feet. Yeah, small little lot too. Oh no. You can actually live there for that. I found a three bedroom, one bath, 946 square feet. There's no, okay, the floors are

either scraped up, whatever there was there, or linoleum in a couple of rooms. No good. No floors at all. But it's $190,000 for that too. Okay. Make something of it. But then if you want something that's just put together and nice, three-bedroom, three-bath, T-ball for each and every B-hole.

There you go. 1,569 square feet. Doable. Nice. It looks really nice from the outside. Nice interior. Clean. Nice, newer.

Not a lot of yard there. It's a small lot, but it's on a hillside overlooking the shoreline. Oh, boy. The view is absolutely unreal. And you know you can hear the water from there. Beautiful. $650,000 for that. Deal.

So, yeah, for that, I mean, that's not a bad deal if you have that kind of... If you see the ocean, for fuck's sake. Yeah, it's right there. I mean, it looks awesome. It looks cool. It looks like if the Goonies lived in a nice neighborhood. That's what it looks like. Awesome.

Yeah, so things to do here. My goodness. First of all, obviously, the century-old Tillamook Cheese Factory. I want it! Open daily for tours and tastings, baby. Hell, yeah. So, yeah, fuck yeah. You go up there there you can go eat

some cheese every day the tillamook county fair shit yeah okay the annual pig and ford races what our world pig dash n dash ford pig and ford what is that okay i thought you might ask that's the thing weird part is i thought you might ask um there's going to be two races each day wednesday thursday friday and saturday so the winners of each race will compete in the championship finals on saturday so this is this is big shit jimmy this is not anything i'm the the sponsors of this there's a million sponsors the credit union pepsi cola of tillamook it's wild here would you like to see a picture i need i'm riveted look at that jimmy what

you just bring your pig you've been you sit slap him in the passenger seat you just sit on like an open framed model t is what it looks like it's what it looks like yeah with and you drive and then you just have a tiny pig sitting next to you in the seat and you clutch him uh for dear life it's this guy's what took out his best girl for a saturday night is what it looks like in the 50s like she's sitting right next to him he's like come on that pig looks terrified we're going to see the james dean picture this is the pig of course he's terrified the pigs aren't meant to drive in open carriage things without they don't understand what the hell's going on baby we're going parking the look on his face is pure joy too he's got a big smile

i'll post this on the social media because it's so crazy and the look of everybody else is on look staring at it they all look horny they all look like they're like yeah drive with that pig like everybody's face i don't understand the goal to win the race while holding on to a pig and if you drop your pig i guess it gets run over by a car and that's whoops and then we take it out there and smoke it then we have a bacon fry so they have the famous they call it the world famous pig and ford races at the grandstand arena you don't want to miss it it says so world famous it's world famous and you don't want to miss it they don't even dress the pig up or do anything weird no no no it's just hold on to that pig and let him fucking it's drive with the other hand drive with the

that's exactly what it is one hand to drive in They've got to be automatics at that point, I figure. I guess, yeah. You can't shift unless you get the pig to do it. Shift. So they also have Pioneer Day on Thursday, which is part of this whole thing. That's more pig and Ford races. The Offmoor Arena for the Milk Chuggalug Contest. You can't do that. You can't do that.

You can't do that. That's just vomiting all day. What is that? Don't do that. You can't chug milk. It's not meant for that. Don't do it. That is disgusting.

Then the Marshall Tucker Band is going to play following the Milk Chuggalug. What? I swear to God. How did they get Marshall Tucker? They're all 75 years old at this point. I don't know if they made an album since 1977. I'm to God. How did they get Marshall Tucker? They're all 75 years old at this point. I don't know if they made an album since 1977. I'm not sure. But their music in the 70s, very good.

Good stuff. Maybe they're just coming for the cheese. Yeah, maybe they bribed them with cheese. Maybe they live in the area and they're like, share what the fuck. Pancake and waffle sandwiches, I'm in. I'm in. Friday, you're going to have an open class dairy show. Okay. I don't know what that is. Friday, you're going to have an open class dairy show. Okay.

I don't know what that is. More pig and ford races. The Ryan Hurd will perform as well. I don't know who that is. They're doing a second run of the pig and ford? It's every night they do the pig and ford. Oh, my God. It's at the end.

The winners of all these face off on the last night in the winner's tournament, and then you're the grand fucking winner. Saturday, start grooming your beards now. The best beard contest is back. You better watch out, motherfuckers, I'm coming. There's a lot of competition up in this area, Jimmy.

This is some serious people who hang out in the forest. This is a different kind of beard. I look like I'm still in high school. They have sparrows living in it and shit. And then what else is there here?

Yeah, paramutel horse racing in the Grand Arena. I don't know what that is. Fair food, all sorts of shit. Then Salsa Steel is going to be playing in the courtyard. Why don't they just have Marshall Tucker play every night night how much to play every day marshall tucker uh dr fun and dr good uh balloon artists oh well jesus for the kids obviously dr fun and dr good yeah uh beth willis music duo okay and then the per Perry Gerber band will be there. That doesn't sound good at all.

Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, property crime, little bit high, about 20% high, but nothing outrageously outrageous. Violent crime, though. Murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The amount Rushmore of crime, it's about half the average nationally. Yeah, that's what happens when you've got

55% women. Pretty safe. Yeah, less murder is going to happen certainly so that said let's talk about some murder shall we let's do it let's do it um my goodness this is crazy stuff so we got to go back to december of 2002 here okay it's christmas week yeah it's christmas week in northwestern Oregon. We're going to be in the Tillamook State Forest, about 30 miles east of Tillamook. In the forest. In the forest, yeah. So we're talking deep in the forest here.

This is a pristine, protected wonderland of nature. Mossy trees. Oh, my God. Absolutely. This is some beautiful, beautiful around here if you if you like walking in the woods this is a good place for it so lots of stuff here there's a couple people out hunting some hunters are out father and son it's christmas week you know they're having a nice bonding expedition out hunting and everything and walking around isn't that nice

this never never ends well whenever someone's out hunting in this show birth of christ for this kid oh yeah it's gonna ruin a lot for this kid i have a feeling it's not a child though it's a it's an adult it's a father-son adult combination it's not like a seven-year-old going gee dad it's gee dad i hope we see a deer i hope we see bigfoot i'm gonna shoot him between his big hairy eyes it's nothing like that don't worry pop i'll save you i'll save you pop um no it's nothing like that but these two are out walking and you never know jimmy thinks it could be a great trip and then they go home this could be the beginning of a story and maybe they won't be bad for them um no it is though as they're walking first they see a few drops of

blood in the snow yeah which one you see blood in the snow it stands out obviously a lot of times you see blood in the snow you go somebody hit it it ran we're gonna get us a wounded deer that's real easy that's the other thing so they anytime a hunter sees blood it could be either what they're looking for or certainly what they're not looking for which is what these two found um i doubt this is what they were hunting for they follow the blood trail and it has an ending so that's good uh but the ending is at a hand a human hand sticking out of the snow oh boy with blankets piled on top of it so they see blankets on the snow they see jesus imagine this you're out hunting it's christmas see blankets on the snow. They see Jesus. Imagine this. You're out hunting. It's Christmas week drops in the snow. This is why you don't follow drops in the snow. Well,

that's nothing we did. So keep moving this way. Do you fire yet? I didn't fire yet. Let's go home. Somebody else's thing. I don't know. Yeah. Instead, uh, they see like a lump with blankets with the blood leading up to it. So they're like, Oh my God, what is that? They thought it was, is that a baby? Like, cause baby? Because it could be something small. They didn't know what it was. And instead, they take the blankets off, and it's an adult human hand sticking out of the snow. Oh, shit. Which isn't much better, honestly.

Nobody wants to find that. No. Either there's a body attached to it, or worse, it's just that, which is even more disturbing. So there's no good answer there. You know what I mean? It's like that John Mulaney joke about seeing an empty wheelchair on the sidewalk and yeah i hope it was a miracle but yeah probably not probably not yeah that's what or another turn tipped over wheelchair on the sidewalk yeah so yeah one of those type of things you go shit this

is bad either way so these guys hunting's over day of day of leisure in the woods is all over with now they run to the nearest phone they can and call police there's a convenience store a few miles down the road on a turnoff they get in there and they they call police from there obviously um it is on it's a it's uh this is four miles north of Oregon Highway 6. Highway 6 goes right through the forest out of Tillamook. Like it cuts through it to the northeast. That's got to be the worst phone call you've ever made. 911, what's your emergency?

I found a dead body. What's the address? Well, shit. Four miles north of Route 60 or whatever the fuck you just said. Due north of the old of the old barn damn it shit i don't know where the fuck it is so that's that is tough this is on a spur road they call just like a little off road off of drift creek road north of uh oregon highway 6 so this is it's out there man it's it's out there this is where It's it's out there. This is where you go hunting. I mean, you know, I guess in the middle of nowhere.

So they they they're looking all over the place. They find the go where the hand is first. That's where they first go. And they find the body of a woman there. And she's, you know, in the snow. So pretty probably deceased. deceased yeah pretty frozen and definitely dead um certainly here um so they uh it's it's a woman named renee morris she's 31 years old oh they got a name quick they get a name out of this yeah they find her um more on her in a moment

here they start to find state police find blood kind of in other areas, too. Elsewhere. So they think, okay, well, let's search this area and make sure that this is our only body. We could have maybe the person who did this killed themselves, too. We'd have no idea. Search around for more bodies. There could be more people. This could be a burial ground for some psychopath.

Who the fuck knows? Especially, this is 2002 you know the last 30 years of the northwest has been pretty lousy with serial killers i mean it's been there's a lot of it so generally you find a body you find several bodies you don't know in this area it could be anything so they look all around um as they uh cover come around here um the area the area that they're finding that they found Renee is covered with. There's a lot of like smaller trees and bushes. And this is an area that is mainly hunters and dirt bikers and four wheeled people. This is what it's thick.

It's thick. So, yeah, people make tracks and make trails through it and shit like that. So this isn't kind of a place where people hang out. It's kind of a place where they go through. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So, as they look more, they find more bodies. And it gets much worse because these are children that they're finding now. Oh, no. They find three more bodies. Three babies? Three children and their mother, it turns out, here. Oh, no.

Yeah, it's fucking horrible. So they quickly find out who these people are because it's not very difficult to find out. The woman is Renee Lynn Morris. She's 31 years old. She's also seven months pregnant as well. Shit, damn. woman is renee lynn morris she's 31 years old she's also seven months pregnant as well shit damn um and she um she's had complications in her pregnancy where she can't do a lot of things anymore she's pretty pretty much you know not on bed rest or anything but she's has hard time i

guess affecting her nerves so she has a hard time like her neighbor said she had a hard time writing out christmas cards that year bastard sitting on her pelvis. Her hand was fucked up. Like, there was some weird thing like that. She couldn't really do it. Her hands were swollen, too. Some kind of issue that way. I'm not sure.

It's so crazy how many complications women can have with pregnancy. It's really mind-boggling. It's fucking crazy. Yeah, if you look at it. There's a body in there that's just getting bigger and bigger. Yeah. I mean, in terms of, like, you know, just raw science, you're like, that's a body in there that's just getting bigger and bigger yeah i mean in the in terms of like you know just raw science you're like that's a parasite my god you know what i mean it's sucking you dry yeah yeah it's trying to suck the fat ass tapeworm oh my god yeah so

it's it's frightening so uh the children here are bryant who's 10 years old. 10 is the oldest. Alexis, who's 8 years old. And then 4-year-old Jonathan as well. Terrible. This is a family. They live in North Portland. So not too far away. Hour and a half away, basically.

And they said that the case right away is being investigated as a homicide. But they said they haven't ruled out murder-suicide either. And the other thing is, right away, they don't know where her husband and these kids' father is. So they don't know if he's involved in this, if he is also a victim of this, if he's been taken somewhere, or if they missed him out in the forest somewhere. They could have killed him first somewhere else and then taken the family to a location to do whatever

to them and kill them because generally in a situation where there's a family they usually kill the guy first eliminate the biggest threat especially the father because obviously he's going to fight he's a more of a physical threat than a seven-month pregnant woman for the generally to protect the children you know what i mean so that's what that makes sense so they don't know exactly what the fuck's going on they're just very uh worried at this point of holy shit is there how many is there more how did this happen um they don't know uh what's going on so but either way the town of tillamook over here and east of till they're all, what the fuck is happening? They're losing their chatter.

Yeah. They said this is a one lady from the clerk at the store said it's unbelievable. This is a small community. I don't get it. Why are people getting murdered? So they're looking for the husband and father here. That's the guy that they want to at least can piece that together. If they can find him dead or alive, they can at least know what the hell.

Maybe that's a key to it or maybe not. Who knows? And then at least we have somebody that we can ask questions of. Yeah, but he's missing either way. He's he's missing. So the family's gone. He's not like at home going. Yeah, she said she was taking the kids up north for the day or anything like that.

It's they don't know where the fuck he is either. And the family apparently all left together. Yeah. Apparently, Edward Paul Morrisris that's the father and husband here he's 37 years old he had told his kids that you know wife and kids he said hey guess what this weekend you know what i rented us a little house on the coast we're gonna go we're gonna go before the baby's born we're gonna go have a little weekend nice like family vacation here you know what i mean which is a good idea so yeah he tells them all of that and it's like you know december 18th so yeah they all pile in the christmas vacation christmas vacation that's what i mean they all pile in the car here and you know he puts his clark griswold hat on and there we go we're fucking a tree going off sparky yeah so um

yeah they drive off in the minivan it's a gray minivan chevy or a dodge caravan i mean it's really a 93 dodge caravan you can't get any more i have three kids and one on the way than a 93 dodge caravan boxy shit gray Yeah. Gray. I know exactly what it looks like. Probably has that dark blue stripe right down the side of it. I'm sure it does. I'm sure it does. You know it does. Yeah.

Just a big box that you can stick all your kids in. Why did dark blue and gray go together? Because nothing else goes with gray, really, I guess. Except for like bright colors. Red and white do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I see people do that. I don't know. I don't know i don't know shit about that i'm half colorblind you know how i am i can't it's a fascinating choice i can't see colors this is the right way so i don't know that's weird i don't really know that's why i wear like mainly like lots of blacks i can tell what black is i dark blue i get um yeah certain shit like that or if it's got to something bright, I know what that is,

but anything in the middle there, it all kind of blends together. Interesting. It's very strange. Anyway, I get made fun of it for it all the time. Everyone I know. So I'd be like,

Oh yeah, that's purple. And everyone's like, that's not purple. Sorry. Jesus Christ. It's always blue. I can't tell blue and purple apart.

It's very weird. I don't know. It's just a little bit of red that changes it. So you're all right. It's definitely got blue in it. You're right. It's very weird. I don't know. It's just a little bit of red that changes it. So you're all right. It's definitely got blue in it. You're right. Hasn't affected me at all. Hasn't affected me really.

I don't mind. It's fine. So they're looking for him. The family was last seen pulling out of their Portland neighborhood in the minivan. The family truckster. They're going. Yeah. And they said they obviously want to want to find him.

They don't know if he's a person of interest or a victim. So they don't know what the fuck's going on. They don't know if maybe he left them at a campsite to go get some supplies and some who the fuck knows. We have no idea at this point. Either way, though, they know they have to expand the search for bodies at this point so the uh police the guy who's in charge in the area of the police said uh we're expanding the grid to see if there are any more victims i hope to heck they're it i hope to heck this is it but we just don't know he hopes to get yeah i'm gonna need you to get a little more grown up sir when there's three dead children

yeah it's okay to say let's just say i for the love of fuck there better not be any more goddamn fuck if i find the body of one more dead child today my psyche can't take it that's what he should be saying i will mother fuck this town from the top of the heavens to the bottom of hell's fire like that's that's what i would be saying if i just had to pull three children out of the snow and a pregnant woman i have three children's corpses in my fucking woods yeah i've had enough of this bullshit ass day yeah heck would not be coming out of my mouth at all i find one more fucking child i'm gonna lose it i'm gonna lose my fucking shit you mark my goddamn words you cocksucker. Thank you.

And I'll find out whoever's fucking responsible. I mean, what else can you do? I don't care. You can print it however you want to print it, but that's what I'm saying. So that's all I got in me right now. Say what you want. Sweeten it up if you like, but guess what? And the guy said, I hope to heck this is it.

Maybe that's what happened. Get some extra ink on your ribbon right next to your asterisk because here we go. No shit. So they said, yeah, they don't know. Maybe dad's the fifth victim. They're not sure here. So there was the Morris family ended up being reported missing to the Portland police, which is a very strange thing. They don't know who reported him missing, who reported the family missing.

Everybody, they told people they were leaving. So if they were gone for a day, everyone expected them to be gone for a day. There's no one to report them missing. That's the thing, which is weird. So that's what they don't understand um what the hell's going on here so um anyway that report gets broadcast statewide and uh at this point that they're missing because at first it was just a little in the area thing and now it's like okay people are dead let's find this guy um they report they report edward morris as being six feet tall weighing 200 pounds he was uh had short brown hair and clean shaven he's got like you know

receding short brown hair and uh clean shaven guy driving a 1993 dodge caravan with oregon license plate wsh 171 which is memorable because that's like washington you know what i mean 171 171 it's a very easy license plate to memorize which is is helpful in this whole case, as we'll find out. So it also has several rear bumper stickers on it as well. Oh. Okay. One, it's like several stickers that spell out Jesus as one of them. then there is one for a guy named louis or lewis louis lewis i don't know what he is uh palau who is a beaverton area evangelist he's a like a religious guy has his own like religious movement

they thought he was going to be like the they thought he was going to be the next billy graham when billy graham died like that was that was he was that guy he was in this area religion isn't that big as we told you there was very little religion He was in this area. Religion isn't that big, as we told you. It was very little religion in the in the thing up there. And he's got like the biggest kind of movement in the area. So of an evangelist kind of a sort. And then he also has a promise keepers bumper sticker as well. OK.

I don't know if you if everybody remembers the promise keepers, but that was a big deal in the 90s. Right. And they've resurfaced recently recently but they've tried to and i'm not going to say i know what the fuck their new goal is but they've tried to kind of they tried to kind of change their image a little bit recently you know what i mean well yeah because there was this is what i remember from the 90s okay and this is what the you'd see on the news they'd be like there's the promise keepers and just be like a bunch of dudes sitting in the woods together like camping and talking about how they should be better dads and shit like that right yeah that's a stronger man that's what it

was you got to support your family better and blah blah blah blah and if you read the stuff you'd go well that all sounds positive yeah you should you should be you should be uh it says like don't cheat on your wife and all that yeah okay you should be a good dad and not be a shithead, and you should take care of your family and all that. But then it kind of got, once you get a bunch of guys in the woods, things go beyond that, and then you start getting other weird shit involved in it, and it starts getting weird. And I think that's what happened there. This time I know they've made, in the new incarnation of them, I know they've made a big deal to say, hey, we're not Nazis. That's one thing they've said. Because they're like, there's oath keepers,

there's promise keepers, there's a lot of keepers out there. It's very close. Hey, they make a big deal to say they're not racist. They get other different races, religious leaders to be inclusive. Yeah, they really want it to be all-inclusive now. Not saying it's good or bad, by the way.

I'm just saying what I've read about it, that's what I've read. So don't say, hey, actually, because I don't fucking know. Don't care. Don't care either. That's the other thing. Don't care. I'm not getting involved in your club. No, no, certainly not.

I wouldn't be in any club of any kind. Imagine me in a club. I'd be the most annoying. What are we doing this for? For what? Even in those Italian clubs, you probably wouldn't even want it. No, no, no, no. I'd be like, you fucking get the hell out of here.

I'm here to eat. That's all I'm here to do. I don't want to talk about soccer. I don't want to bitch about that. Maybe make a nice Tuscan steak. That's it. Looking for some good food here. It's the only reason why I'm a part to talk about soccer. I don't want to bitch about that. Maybe make a nice Tuscan steak. That's it. Looking for some good food here. It's the only reason why I'm a part of this.

Yeah. So now they go around, obviously, at this point, people are curious who these people are. What are they all about? I mean, the bumper stickers paint some kind of picture right there as far as what they're into. And neighbors and friends describe them as very quiet, kind of like you would expect a typical little family to be, just quiet. They describe them as devout churchgoers. I guess Edward started his own business earlier in the year

called Cornerstone Total Maintenance, Inc. Okay, so is he doing cars or houses? started his own business earlier in the year called Cornerstone Total Maintenance, Inc. Okay. So is he doing cars or houses? It's like a construction business because he's previously had a roofing business that didn't quite work out, and he's also had a painting business. So he does home repair, maintenance, construction. So Cornerstone Total Maintenance, Inc., and with another man, Paul Gasparetti, Jr., is his business partner here. Oh, got himself an eye top.

Hey, come over here. Over here. Come on. Let's fix some shit. What do you say? So the family lived in the end of a cul-de-sac, or dead-end street, you could really call it, because it wasn't a cul-de-sac, but I'm going to choose to call it a cul-de-sac. A squared-up cul-de-sac. But it's a nice neighborhood, too.

It's a well-kept little house, small houses, but they're nice little yards, well-kept up, that sort of deal here. They have a one-story white house decorated up for Christmas, little plants hanging on the front porch, the whole. It's a very family, homey-looking house, basically. It's just like that. And this, since they've owned the house since 1995, it is a three-bedroom, 896-square-foot house. How do you put three bedrooms in there?

That's tough. Well, also it is. How do you three bedrooms? How do you have four kids in there to have four? Yeah, because there's fourth on the way. Four small children and two adults and 896 square feet is a I guess that's two in each room. And you get her and that's a tall task, man.

Yeah, tall task. That's just a lot. Yes, there's not a lot of room because, you know like that it'll be a small living room. That's going to be six people crammed into a small living room, small kitchen space. It's just not a lot of space. You never had to share a room with anybody, huh? Not many people. I have.

I don't want to talk, but I have. Nobody my age put it that way. I never had like a sibling. I've had to share a room with like my aunt and shit like that. Yeah. My mom for like a sibling i've had to share a room with like my aunt and shit like that yeah my mom for like it's very weird to share a bedroom with somebody that's your age as your sibling and then one of you is in trouble and have to be in the room and then you the other one just gets to freely come and go what's up later it's so weird it's the worst sharing a bedroom with somebody sucks especially

when there's some sort of fucking discipline they'll fuck up they'll lock down the whole room oh you're still in lockdown i'm gonna get out of here all right let's go now um this house was in north north portland where they live yeah in 1990 or in 2002 it was valued at 108 410 dollars so yeah smaller house in the city here it would probably be worth a lot now because everything in portland's worth probably 253 yeah now it'd be worth fucking i bet it's half a million dollars now for that thing i bet it is yeah in certain area if it's in a decent area probably yeah shit's real expensive in portland um so his mother died and he inherited the house in 1995 that's how they way to get stuff that's where

how they came of it um they came by it but in terms of death so a neighbor of theirs this is the ultimate neighbor in the case of a missing family is a woman named Pearl who's 85 years old. Every case should have a Pearl who's 85 because she knows everything about all of her neighbors. Yes, she does. She just looks out the window. She knows their license plate numbers. She's about to equate that house too. I was going to say, hopefully she has a kid to move in. So I feel like that's this neighborhood's thing.

Everybody's of a certain age. They die. They give it to their kids, and they grow up that's this neighborhood's thing. Everybody's of a certain age. They die. They give it to their kids, and they grow up and die. A turnover. Yeah, there's a turnover. Pearl's overliving the turnover. That's her problem. This neighborhood's in a process of getting more youthful.

In about five years, it's going to be a lot more youthful. We could just kill Pearl off this neighborhood. I hear her oldest son has a couple of kids. This could be good for us. It would be nice. So now, like I said, Renee, as she said, Renee was pregnant seven months. The family, apparently they were very, very, very afraid and paranoid about uh danger and the outside like kids getting in some sort of danger crime scared them a lot um they were very much don't let the kids go outside because they'll be

murdered in a moment basically you know what i mean it's not really not safe if yeah it's when it's gonna happen yeah i mean look at it out there you watch the news they're gonna be murdered obviously i'm sure so then so they don't even let them they homeschool the kids not because they think they can give them a better education maybe they can i don't know but they homeschool them because they say it's too dangerous to send them to school they'll be they'll be killed so that's that's one thing here um they attend the St. John's Wesleyan Church in North Portland. And the upcoming Saturday before they leave, they left during the week to go on this trip for a few days. That Saturday, there's the Christmas play at the church.

And Renee is supposed to be the co-director. And two of the children are supposed to be in um in like prominent roles with lines and everything so yeah they've done this before everybody says the kids were the most well-behaved kids on the face of the earth like they're yeah perfect yeah yeah fear instilled in them something at least fire and brimstone something so um i that's how they were i guess they had a lot of close friends at the church the um they were talking the neighbors were. I guess they had a lot of close friends at the church. The neighbors are talking about Edward had recently built a swing set for his children in the backyard. And they also said Edward is constantly helping any of the elderly neighbors with the yard work.

And there's a bunch of elderly people. There's basically elderly people or their kids like we were talking about. So he goes around and he's weeding and edging all sorts of yards and mowing people's shit and he's taking care yeah he's got a lot to do in the neighborhood helping out all these old people and they're all really you know they're really uh thankful for it everybody in the neighborhood's like edward's a fucking great guy helps me with my yard work all the time what a good guy kids are great kids come over and help him too. It's amazing. They said the only thing

that happens, it was a little shitty with them, that was, everything's going well except for 1993 they file for bankruptcy, which happens.

I mean, they had a business and the business went bust. It was called Sunrise Roofing and the business went under. They had no choice but to declare bankruptcy which that'll happen upside down in a small town you're working yourself out

of a job yeah yeah you have to fix it poorly and built yeah your fingers crossed for a tornado or something to come through come on natural disaster give me something i put up some real nice roofs around here fuck i'm running out of houses here. So, yeah, I guess apparently they had to file for bankruptcy for both themselves and the business at that point, which, I mean, there's a ton of people that have had to declare bankruptcy. That's nothing bad. But Edward would try again. He always tried to start a new business, and you got to.

You have a family and kids. What are you going to do? Stop and go, I don't know, fuck it, I guess. I guess you get a day job. Yeah yeah where in this town there's not a lot of places to work unless you're a like a professional fisherman or something i don't know where the fuck you're really working so um he tried again he began a business called cornerstone total maintenance this year and in between two he had a couple other businesses a painting business he was doing a whole bunch of shit here. So, yeah, he finds this Paul Gasparetti Jr. They become business partners and everything like that.

So back to Pearl. Pearl Borg is her name. B-O-R-G. Pearl Borg, 85. And this is in 2002, so she's certainly dead by now, unless she's 105 years old, which is, I guess, technically possible, but I doubt it. It's possible. Pearl?

Hey, Pearl? Pearl! Listen! If you're alive. Pearl? If you're alive. Yeah, no, yeah, Pearl, over here. Pearl.

Yeah, that's right. Listen, if you're alive, alive, not dead. Yeah, pulse. Yeah, you got it. You got it, Pearl. That's right, on the nose, babe. You, you got it. You got it, Pearl. That's right. On the nose, babe. You, if you're alive, call us, okay?

Have your grandchildren show you how to tweet at us. Get your great grand, they'll know what to do. And have them get on Twitter or Instagram and have them send a message and say, Pearl's alive. I know you're alive, Pearl. I just said that. Tell Pearl's alive I know you're alive Pearl I just said tell us that we know you're alive we want you to hear it from you thanks Pearl thank you yeah I know great I know grace shit never mind Pearl forgot already so uh Pearl said that Edward would even come and help her out inside the house, would clean for her anything she couldn't reach because she's old. He replaced light bulbs for her so she didn't have to climb up the stepstool so she wouldn't fall and break her hip, would mow her lawn for her, the whole lawn.

It's a pain in the ass to mow a lawn. If you're mowing several lawns, that's a lot of work. You've got to really like somebody to mow a lawn if you're mowing several lawns that's a lot of work you got to really like somebody to mow the lawn there that grass is so fucking wet that takes a while it's a wet thick grass too it's a lot of rain it's growing in a lot of a lot of time to do that absolutely uh she said quote eddie was always busy but he was always my handyman oh that's what pearl said she said 10 year old-old Bryant would come and help him out all the time, too. Help him mow and stuff. She said, I've never seen kids work

like they did. So, Pearl is just absolutely impressed by the whole thing. She is horrified to hear that Renee and the three children have been found and that they can't find Edward. She's horrified. She said, I can't believe that. I just they can't find edward and they're they're she's

horrified she said i can't believe that i just really can't she doesn't know what happened at all and um another neighbor named donna babbitt she says she never spoke to the morris family but she saw the kids through the backyard fence there i never spoke to them but i sure was nosy i sure snooped on him a lot i'll tell you what she the wife the wife you should see what she wears to bed i don't know it's a little risky let's just say that never talk to him but through the fence slats i'm a fucking creep i am a creep wow i do live four houses down but through my telescope if i sit upon my roof i can see pretty much everything right into their bedroom the backyard right through the fence slants that is incredible um she said here um

that she saw that edward built them a wooden swing set with a slide he like built it from his own plans and shit like he didn't buy a kit or anything like that awesome she said they had darling little kids running around in the backyard i heard them out there laughing and talking with their little kids so there is literally nothing that would make the police think that edward killed these people and and um there's no affair they can find they can't find anything that would he's not like you know he's not a hundred grand in debt to the mob there's right it's a shockingly loving family that yeah they're all disappeared well they're all dead and dad's disappeared this is people that you don't hear about on our show a lot this is you know

what i mean this is all nice people that are playing and laughing with their kids not usually yeah chasing them around the trailer with a belt it's a different we find a suspect or two or three real fast yeah it's like well one was mad they were mad he was mad because he they wouldn't let him use their poop bucket that's what they're he came by he he was too high and drunk on meth and thunderbird and they said you ain't using my poop bucket and he said but i'll need you to use your poop bucket and then gunfire ensued. That's a lot of our shows. I'll trade you this purple drink for that. We've had purple drink recently.

So she said, yeah, they were a perfect little family. Another one, Ruth Meske, who lives four houses away. She is the neighborhood mailwoman also. So she sees it and talks to everybody walking around. male woman also okay so she sees it and talks to everybody walking around she described the family as wonderful and edward as quote super nice super nice guy she said quote never heard him yell at her or the kids and the kids never yelled they were so well behaved i love that they're just out in the back every time anybody sees them they're all just laughing and like smiling and doing weird family shit that i say weird because i mean weird to my because i never experienced that no coming from dysfunction

as we both have neither of us were like oh this is great we're going here let's all hold hands like no it was never any of that so this is pretty fucking this is wild and foreign and sounds wonderful really does sound idyllic so um, yeah, she also said, Ruth, that if the church had a fundraiser, they'd always come around to help out and be there, and they're just good people. The phone, if you called their phone at this point in their house, you would get their voicemail,

obviously, because no one's at home. Their family voicemail, stop it. It's him speaking. It's Edward, and it says quote thank you for calling the morris family we hope that the lord is blessing you today and we would ask that you would leave a message what we are probably just not able to get to the phone prior to the voicemail picking up that is so kind it's the guy what that's so polite. That's very straightforward. That's so foreign to everything. Thank you for calling.

Thank you. You've reached us, and my stepfather was not thrilled that you were calling anyway. He didn't hope that the Lord is blessing them today? No. That wasn't part of it? I imagine hoping you'd hang up before the end of this thing he says at the end he says we ain't here we ain't gonna be here for a while so leave a message if you want either way go to hell click it's a different message and we hope the lord is

blessing you today and we would ask that you would leave a message that's a kindly like it's other than leave a message if you want cocksucker it ain't my fucking you're the one who called shit yeah it's like if you if you're still listening i guess leave a message i don't i don't want to listen to this i suppose if you think that you're that important leave a message are you gonna give me something to listen to later here go ahead and do it shit so the they left in the minivan um there are other cars at the house there's a white dodge tradesman 300 van there as well which i believe is one of the bastards the windowless white vans that are the work vans yeah it's the work van with all the tools and shit in it that was sitting out in front

of their house that weekend and uh the rest of they looked in the van here the police are investigating trying to find any hint of where they could possibly be uh it had tools the roof had ladders it's a fucking work van there's nothing special in there there is two straw hats and a red bible on the dashboard oh so yeah probably for outside in the sun and then you know a little something to get you motivated to get up on that road read something at your lunch break i'm not sure some lunch reading material and then behind the van was a red mercury sable gs which is what my racist man drove a mercury sable mercury sable when she traded in her 77 thunderbird she got that she had the jubilee edition which was

like it was orange the thing was fucking awesome it was a boat and she got a mercury sable um it had a faded american flag taped inside the left passenger window the rear window had a flag with quote our country was founded on the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oh, boy. And also, give me liberty or give me death. Oh, boy. Yeah, there's some interesting stuff mixed into that. It's a fascinating car.

It's a very strange car, yeah. Not the guy you want to be stuck in traffic behind. No, no. You figure if you honk at him, he'll probably fire a gun at the window out you just out of there'll be a report out that window absolutely so yeah they said now ruth is ruth is the person in the neighborhood who said she i guess saw them last she said she saw renee morris tuesday or wednesday carrying a few groceries from the car into the house. So that's kind of the last time anybody's seen them other than driving out of the driveway.

So they asked the police, what about any evidence? And the police don't want to give anything away right away. They say, there's a lot of evidence at the scene, but I can't go into that right now. He does say, quote, it's a heinous crime. Tillamook County has never seen anything like this before. Our goal is to find out who did this and then gives out the phone number for anybody who has any tips or information and uh

yeah this is this is bad and it's all pretty mad about all the overtime we have to work right now it's gonna be a lot this near Christmas right right at Christmas now this is great I was supposed to go visit my wife's aunt now they're gonna have to have to go without me. I know it's a tragedy. I'm only doing this press conference. So my wife knows this is real and I'm not making this shit up to get out of that scene. That woman, I told her and she said, bullshit was her first words.

And I was like, no, for real. So about a year before this, there was a quadruple homicide on the Oregon coast as well, which was for an adult female and three young children as well. Mary Jane and they found two people pulled them out of the bay. So, yeah, this was right after they found Mary Jane and Madison Longo pulled them out on December 27th.

And about a week before that, they pulled out Zachary and Sadie Longo in another area. So they were killed and put in the water. And it turned out to be the husband slash father, Christian Longo, was the guy who did this. So this is like a year later exactly during Christmas break. And that's one of the reasons why they're – that's the only reason they have to suspect that Edward might be a part of this and not a victim. Because they have nothing from the past and no red flags, nothing like that, that would make you think that he would kill his family. Other than this is what happened during Christmas last year. Other than that, that's all they have.

So, you know, they're going on that and they're going, well, we have to look at it because of that. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital

to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Now, during church that weekend there's small memorials for them with the with pictures of the kids and renee and edward morris's uh edward's father and renee's family went together to the service obviously to to grieve and everything like that and um yeah it's it's it's um you know it's hard on too, because they don't know who did this. For Edward's family, they don't know if these people are suspecting that their son did this, too.

So they're like, it's got to be kind of uncomfortable. But they had a 90-minute service. Renee Morris's mother, Pat, spoke and spoke about her grandkids and said that the eight-year-old Alexis sang like an angel and four-year-old Jonathan was looking forward to playing soccer next year. He had already gotten his soccer shoes and all that kind of shit. Very sad. It's about to be in kindergarten, for God's sake. Yeah, very, very fucking sad shit.

She also brought up that two years ago they had a baby who died after two days. Oh, baby was born with complications and died in the hospital after two days. So they've been it took they were recovering from that. And then she's she got pregnant. And that's been like their, you know. Oh, OK. Hopefully this will be better this time. Yeah.

So there have been they've been looking forward to this child coming in here. So her mother said, Renee's mother said, it was a very difficult time. If one of them has to go, I'm sorry. She remembered her daughter saying of her children after the infant's death, if one of them has to go, we are all going together. Oh, what the fuck kind of thing is that? That's a very strange thing to say that's when they heard that too they were like wait a second that doesn't sound right you know so she that's what she said too so very that's a very thing a very strange thing they had a slideshow

of photographs and everything um the mother also said our family and close friends want to share these memories with you so uh you will know know Renee and her three children for who they were, what they lived for, not how they died. Now, that is a that's a I'm not a religious person, but I know somewhat of study a little bit about it. But the that's one of those things where people are saying they're going to be together in the afterlife. People are saying they're going to be together in the afterlife. So it's better if they all go together than have one of them go having one kid be alone in the afterlife without you type of thing. I think that's part of that's just I don't think that means like if one of them dies, I'll kill everybody. That's not what she meant.

But to people, we hear that and we're like, Jesus, that means if one of them dies, I'll kill everybody. Whereas she meant I'd rather we all be in the kingdom of heaven at the same time, I believe, was probably her thought process of saying that. But you still have to look into a statement like that. You know what I mean? And you find her and her three kids dead and the husband's missing. You don't know what's going on here. So, yeah, they said that the family didn't want to talk to reporters yet. The spokesman for them said, we have to realize what that family is going through right now. And he said that, you know, it's a tough time, a trying emotional time. It's going to be for the upcoming days when the time is right.

The family is going to speak to the press here. Don't worry about it. So they're searching for Edward. Yeah. Obviously. Where the fuck is he? Got to find Edward here and see where he is, dead or alive. They got to find him just to know what the fuck happened here.

So January 3rd, 4th in this area, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, he's still gone. Two weeks. It's been two fucking weeks. They still can't find him. Oh, man. They don't know where he is. There's now an FBI. The FBI is involved, involved obviously because he could be

obviously somewhere else they could be searching for a body so they need all the manpower they can get charles matthews matthews who heads the fbi operations in oregon at that time he said he could be anywhere in the world he said he could be he could be down the road he could be in new york city he said we have no idea it's been two weeks it's been two weeks or he could be down the road. He could be in New York City. He said, we have no idea. It's been two weeks. He could be in Ireland. It's been two weeks. Or he could be dead in the forest and we didn't find him. It's literally we don't know where he is.

It could be anything and anywhere. Police receive over this period, they receive 615 tips. 615 tips. How do you begin to investigate all of that how do you sift through this and the fucked up part is as we'll see a lot of these tips are really credible and some of them are and some of them aren't actually yeah there are people that are positive they saw that this exact thing with that exact thing and they didn't that's the thing if some people some people i think might just think they see it and then in their brain they made it that after the thing if some people some people i think might just think they see it and then in

their brain they made it that after an hour or some people just want to get attention i don't know they're just bored they just want to be involved i'm not sure what it is but when you mix all that together that's how you get 615 tips right yeah that's it's got to be something with with uh the innocence of of the children being taken you know what i mean like people want to help too you want to be the one and not just the not just help but be the one that fucking yeah opens this whole thing up absolutely they do absolutely you want to be you then you're you're you've done something good you're a hero and for good or bad for whether that's for ego or just wanting good things to happen it's either way it doesn It doesn't matter. It's the same result.

So it's good. So, yeah, they said they got 615 tips. They said the only thing they do know is that on December 19th, which was after they had left for the forest here, for the coast and ending up in the forest, he was at his home in portland after they left after they had left yes edward was back home in portland 9 15 when he talked on the phone with a friend from his house so there's a record of the phone being used and his friend said yeah i talked to him at 9 15 that night and the records all match up here then they're also pretty sure that he this is what they have the trace of it. They're pretty sure that he checked into a motel in the Dales at 1030 a.m. on December 20th. Oh, he paid cash, though.

And the name in the registration wasn't Edward Morris. It is Jim Elliott. But the guy did not show identification as well. The guy had told them that he didn't have identification. He got mugged or something. So they let him have a room because it's some fucking motel. What do they care? He gets $40.

Great. Hand it over. They don't give a shit. Jesus Christ. Please don't kill any prostitutes in there. That's all they care about. It's messy. We'll clean up in the morning.

Yeah. So he checked in under the name Jim Elliott without giving any identification there. And Jim Elliott has a significance, by the way, this name, as we'll talk about in a little bit here. So the van was last seen, his van, the gray minivan, last seen at the motel at 1 a.m. And it was gone when a clerk checked the lot at 6 a.m to see who was in there to make make sure there was nobody just because some people will pull into the motel parking lot just sleep in their cars so the clerk will go out and tell people they get a room or fuck off you know what i mean this isn't this isn't a fucking rv station this is a hotel so um they said that given all of this they think that the uh the murders the murder must have

happened sometime between 10 15 p.m on december 19th which would be enough time to get from the house out to this woods area and 8 30 a.m on december 20th which is enough time for him to get to the dales by that time and check into that motel. So it had to be in there. Otherwise, why is he on the run? You know what I mean? They think now they're like, OK, well, if he's there sightings of him, he must be fucking. If your family was murdered and you escaped it, you wouldn't go just drive around.

You would go to the cops and you'd probably not be in a hotel paying cash with somebody else's name. That's the thing here. So very good way to put that. So they said that that timeline would have allowed him to drive from North Portland to the Coast Range there and from the Coast Range to the Dales. That would line up like that. So a shitload of callers start calling and reporting seeing Morris in the Olympia, Seattle, Bellingham, Washington, and British Columbia area. Oh, there's SeaTac. Yeah, way up there.

That's where they're thinking, northern Washington near the Canadian border. Maybe he's trying to get to Canada. You know what I mean? An escape. Who knows? Trying to make it to Alaska or something and hang out in a fucking Quonset hut in Kodiak. Build a fucking igloo. You never know.

hut in kodiak build a fucking igloo you never know if read the if you didn't read listen to the uh the kodiak alaska express episode from a couple weeks back kwanzit huts well it's a very very easy to disappear up there oh boy you can disappear easy so the search from him for him so it veers from seattle to canada they're investigating the area around the Dales. They're doing all this shit. A motel clerk told them that this person saw a man who appeared to be, look somewhat like Morris at least, driving that gray minivan also that day in that area. Here's the other thing about a guy driving a minivan around that time. They all look the same. they all look the same they all look the same yeah they're all defeated defeated looks like every one of them looks like they lost their family not like they own like they have a family no man has ever dreamed

of having a minivan this has never happened on not a thing i'm not saying women have either i'm just saying i know as a guy i've never heard a guy when we were kids be like, I'm going to get me a sweet minivan when I grow up. Never. Even Toyota tried to make them cool, and they still suck. Yeah. No good. Shit. Even Method Man tried to make them cool.

Talking about MPVs all the time. It's like, it's still a minivan. God damn it, Matt. You could fit a lot of people in it. So, well, it wasu-tang in general so anyway um they said that investigators have verified the sighting in the dales and we're canvassing the dales area first and they featured right away that next saturday night so it's a week later he is on um america's most wanted right away like that looking for yeah we're looking for this guy he's out there

um they also fbi put shit on their website about it to get tips i mean it's an all all hands on deck effort to find this fucking guy they said they also described him as possibly armed and dangerous so watch out for that he um they said also that they were might be looking for um a missing gun as well this is what this is what they told Morris' father. So Morris' father told the media, the FBI told me they were looking for a missing gun also. So they asked that citizens be on the lookout

for the 1993 Dodge Caravan with the bumper stickers and obviously the license plate WSH-171. So like I said, a lot of sightings in British Columbia as well in Canada. Tons of sightings up. Absolutely. Here. Tons of them up there. Then a woman spots his van in Abbotsford,

British Columbia. Okay. Just across the border in Western Washington into the, into Canada. Okay. This was December 28. And the authorities consider it to be very credible. This is a week after the last sighting of him, which they thought to be credible, which was the last sure sighting of him, which was at a filling station in Edmonds, Washington.

OK, December 28. The FBI did say, however, he could be anywhere. This is just where we think he is and we don't know. So they said we're still looking into the tips we've received from the British Columbia area. They said the December 28th sightings considered credible. And they spoke with the Abbotsford Police Department and said they're on the lookout. It's a popular border crossing for Americans heading to Alaska in the spring and summer. But not in December, usually. not in late december early january it's hard to say uh vacationing

in the tundra yeah let's we're gonna go vacation justin no it's all frozen but we're gonna we have a kwanzaa hut it's gonna be great so he said that uh this person said a woman noticed a gray van and the oregon license plates while waiting at a red light around 10-15 a.m. She described the driver as a white male, 40-50, which he looks a couple, you could definitely if you said he's 45, you'd go, okay.

Alright. Like, yeah, okay. He's like balding and not really that distinguishable. If you said he's 32 or 45, you'd go, sure, why not? I don't know. He's a 38-year-old with four kids with four kids he probably looks around he probably looks 56 is what that is three little kids in an 800 square foot house yeah i would look like fucking jack nicholson looks right now if i had that many that'll age you so fast holy shit i'd look terrible now that we said that he's gonna die too because everything we say, something weird happens.

Sorry, Jack, if we kill you. We didn't mean to. So they said he also, 40 to 50 years old, some stubble on his face and oversized glasses, she said. I don't know if like comically oversized. Like a nose and a mustache? Yeah. Are they novelty glasses? They said comically oversized. Are they novelty? Are they like big nose and a mustache yeah i mean are they novelty glasses they said comically oversized are they novelty are they like big like wide yeah are they like a foot and a half

wide on his face or are they just like jeffrey dahmer's glasses just like big stupid looking glasses of a guy who's just got too big a frame one or the other i'm not sure the guy doesn't know how to pick out glasses. Yeah. Those cover my whole eye, I guess. I can see out of them. Also, this is the FBI agent describing this woman seeing him, or thinking she did. He said,

quote, she said the gentleman in the van seemed to be looking at her and her son. She thought it was rather odd. It was not just a glancing look he was paying particularly a particular attention to them in their vehicle huh that's what she thinks it creeped her out a little bit he said the woman didn't notice anything else including license plate number or bumper stickers so who knows if that was the right but the description fits so maybe you see a guy that fits maybe family murderer and you don't look at license tag

well no talking about because she didn't notice she didn't even know about it until that night when she went home and watched america's most wanted and saw him on there and went that's the guy who was next to me in traffic looking at my kid weird yeah so that's what she said and then she contacted authorities right away and they said that the office had received nine other tips as of midday friday from others who believe they saw the van in that area as well so there's a lot of people there so a detective in that area was assigned full-time to the case as well so there's like there's like seven different cities a whole state the fbi fucking canadian police the mounties are involved now too as well i just read like it's

everybody all the whole northwest of the united states is looking for this man and this is 2002 which is yeah it seems 2003 on the border yeah it's pretty recent but it's not it's not recent enough there's still too much miscommunication there's still a lot of miscommunication here so this is most people don't have like a high-speed internet or anything at this point this is a totally different thing september 11th happened because we didn't have communication at all nobody knew what the fuck was happening nobody knew what anybody was doing right so um they said he'd been paying uh the guy who they thought was him paid gas uh paid cash at a filling station in edmonds washington on december 21st so they're trying to track um they said the attendant on december 21st the attendant in edmonds washington

wrote down his license plate number and um they don't say why he wrote down the license plate number because he didn't know about it yet he said he wrote it down then and then found out about the guy, but he had his license plate written down. So he's just writing everybody's license plate number down, or is he full of shit? Yeah. They don't know what it is, but the police said they have to review the surveillance video

from the gas station, which I'm sure will be of excellent quality. I'm sure it'll be top tier, 1080p fucking perfect. It's going to be great. Or it's going to be grainy and on a VHS tape that they've been using over and over since 1989. One of the two. I'm shocked that even today some of the surveillance video exists.

It's terrible. What the fuck are we even looking at? My doorbell has a better camera than that. The fucking SimpliSafe is ten times better than all these. It's crazy. Fucking ring SimpliSafe, all of them. I got birds and rabbits alerting me. Yeah.

I got birds landing at my door and my doorbell's like, somebody's here. Somebody's here. It's a bird. Be careful. But we got murders that happen and you can't see a goddamn thing. No, not at all. So then they check out a little more deeper into the Super 8 motel thing. And that was in the Dales.

It was a Super 8 that he paid cash at. Now, Jim Elliott, the registration name, that's why they think it might be him. Not only does he fit the description, but it's the name of a Christian missionary who was from Portland, who was from Portland and he went to Ecuador in 1956 and was killed by the, uh, the Aqua India Indians down there. And he's, he's known as a modern martyr in their community. Apparently.

Yeah. Especially in this evangelical Northwestern evangelical community. Cause that's where he came from. So, um, yeah, Morris, that's one of those.

If you know, you know, things. Exactly. That's the thing. I guess So, yeah, Morris. That's one of those if you know, you know things. Exactly. That's the thing. I guess Elliot went to Ecuador in 1952, called the tribe from his linguistic training. He recalled some shit. He knew them to be hostile when he was there.

He was there for months. In 1956, he dropped. He was there for years. In 1956, four years later, he had dropped gifts all over the village, I guess, the Ora village. And he and four others landed on a nearby riverbank. And then two days later, they found all of them hacked to death. Holy shit. Yeah, all five of them.

So apparently, that tribe just kills strangers. That's what they do. You come through, they kill you, period. Like, don't fucking stay off our shit, they're not not not open to strangers i understand no big deal i don't want to talk yeah like they should have had like a you sir may fuck off doormat like we sell or something just to let us know oh shit yeah they don't want any part of us that's a weird thing to do just drop gifts at people's houses and then just show up. Like if you did that at my house, I'd be fucking creeped out. Are you here? Yeah. I mean, who are you? I don't want you here. Go away. How about that? So at that time, the the agent also said, we don't want to focus in on any one area, which means they're not positive he's even up there. They said by this time he could be anywhere in the world. Like he He could have gone to Canada and then escaped off to somewhere else. He could be in Russia by now, for all we know.

So January 5, 2003, it's over two weeks now. This is getting crazy now. They're looking for him and looking for him. A brother and sister here, a 58-year-old woman named Linda Martin and her brother Tom Martin of Rochester, Washington, are driving home from Idaho. Yeah. Okay.

Driving home from Idaho. They're going through Baker city, Oregon, which is an Eastern central Oregon. Okay. The middle of nowhere. They see a van that they believe it could be this could be this, uh, the van. Okay. They see this as, uh, the van. Okay. They see this as they pass by the van. Linda Martin said she had been paying close attention to the case because, and check this fucking coincidence out.

Her grandson played on the soccer team with Bryant Morris, the young boy. Oh shit. How weird is that? She's not even from Portland. She's from Washington, but her grandsons in Portland happened to play on the same team with him. So she's been paying attention to this case and watching it, following it on the news.

That's my grandson's teammate. Yeah, in the paper, all that sort of thing. So she had the license plate memorized, WSH-171. I haven't seen it since the beginning. It's not that hard. So she had it memorized. She had it memorized, and she says that they passed each other going opposite directions at about 1130 a.m. near Baker City. And she said that it's 55 mile an hour, and the van was going, she figured, about 10 miles an hour under the speed limit, for what she thought.

There was cars behind him. Yeah, she's clocking people go in the other direction so she passed the minivan and glanced at the license plate she said as a quote old habit of hers to look at people's license plates that's weird she's amazing is that strange or what do you have she's either amazing or a creep i never ever ever look at someone's license plate unless i'm at a red light and they're directly in front of me and i'm like and it's something that catches my eye otherwise i don't care and that may be why if i look at a license plate i can read it and by the time i get to the last number or letter it's fucking gone in my head i don't know what the fuck that

just said your brain knows that you don't need that information now right that's what it is that's what i yeah i really feel like it by the time you get to 40 years old your brain knows things to we it's like you get to be a better editor of what you need and you're like don't need that cut it out don't need that cut it out okay i'm never gonna listen to hear that again don't give a shit about that get rid of it it really does you can do that with new shit but you can't get rid of old memories doesn't that suck it's bizarre you can say i'm gonna learn this for five minutes and then forget about it and you will but you can't get rid of that thing that happened when you were nine that was really painful that's gonna be there forever that's fucked up thanks brain thanks brain

i want to remember people's names so bad can Can't even remember my agent's name. Sorry about it. Sorry. Yeah. Right to her face. Call her somebody else. That was, that was funny. That was bad. That was bad.

I was like, you mean so and so, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I sure do. Wow. That's not good. Sorry about it. I have no more room. I'm terrible with names.

Well, you knew her name. You just just thought you literally thought someone else was talking and i just don't and it was over it was it was a group phone call yeah there's a lot of excuses for it that it wasn't like a one-on-one or you weren't looking in her face it was it was multiple up to still chalks up to disrespectful most of multiple people talking it wasn't your finest moment, I got to say. No, it wasn't. It really wasn't. And I've shit my pants before. I was going to say, there's been worse.

There's been worse. So apparently then she looked again to make sure she didn't misread the numbers. These are going 55 miles an hour in opposite directions. And she still saw it twice. She didn't. It was WSHsh 171 she says quote i always look at license plates i my follow-up would be bye-bye before you mention anything else that you did here why yeah what's happening for for what reason are you looking at

license plates what is happening she said the minute I saw the 171, I knew. Because it's an Oregon plate, that license, whatever. So they end up, the Martins pull off at the jerky gas station to call the cops from there. They return to the freeway and they get next to them then. They go up to get near them and pass the minivan again and they go speed ahead of the minivan to baker city and they take the first exit and follow the signs to the state police office they're going to go right to the police station it's closed very helpful thanks thanks a lot it's 11 30 a.m why the fuck up! I got him! It's the middle of the day.

Yeah. Open up, stupid. What are you doing in there? So they go there. It's closed. They're like, shit. At this point, they've done way more work than they should have to for this whole case. Like, these are regular people.

They've done more work than the police at this point. It's fucking ridiculous here. So she goes there, and the office is closed. So there's an emergency phone outside, though, for these purposes. So they pick up the emergency phone, and it was routed to the Oregon State Police Dispatch Center in Medford. Okay. Now, they tell their story. They go, look, there's a van, and we're looking for the guy.

It's the plate. I passed it twice. I know it's this fucking plate. When we got behind him, I made sure. Blah, blah, blah. So they go, okay, there's a van, and we're looking for the guy. It's the plate. I passed it twice. I know it's this fucking plate. When we got behind him, I made sure. Blah, blah, blah. So they go, okay. They take their information. The Martins decide to get back in the freeway and try to catch up to it now. Oh, boy.

They're going to try to catch up. Fast, you got to go now. They're going to try to catch up. It's a minivan, so hopefully not very fast. And he was going slower than everybody else, too. So hopefully you can catch up with him. So they don't know where the fuck they're going, though. They can't.

They're not from this area. They're driving through from from Idaho. So they have no idea. And they're driving around. They couldn't retrace the route they went the first time because they didn't know where the hell they were. Yeah. So they just drive east on this road. They drive past us past a subway sandwich shop because they're in the middle of everywhere in the middle of every nowhere there's a subway they pass that and they said as they're looking

at the subway they see the minivan fucking pass by them going the opposite direction going west while they're going east shit they go holy shit it's them again that's crazy there he is so they make a u-turn yeah and fucking get behind the van okay at this point though you've seen this man twice he let's see what's the chances you know he's his head's probably on a swivel i would think he's and they make a u-turn behind him yeah that doesn't seem obvious and he's maybe armed and dangerous are you out of your fucking mind these people are like this is fun this is i don't know what they're thinking they watch the van it turns into a right aid parking lot the drugstore right aid i don't know if they have it everywhere so what they did is they stopped by the safeway store

and rushed to the pay phone which is next to the right aid by the way safeway right aid right there and they had called the cops again hey motherfuckers called you twice came by stopped by nobody home maybe give me some fucking assistance here so they stopped there they they call the cops the dispatcher alerts the baker city police department this time rather than the state police department and the baker county sheriff's office and the oregon Police. So they do that. This is 1225 p.m. They called 911 at that point. The police are coming over here to try to take a look at it. They believe

maybe she's found the guy. They don't want to confront him inside the store because they're afraid of having a shoot out inside a Rite Aid, which is you don't want to be shooting cotton balls exploding into the air and like you know, Q-tips going everywhere, M&Ms. Blast somebody with a bad wrist behind an ace bandage.

Yeah. You can see the clerk diving behind the desk. It's not good. Right away. It's everywhere. So, yeah, they're like, let's not do that. So they said, hide behind the corner of the store and off to the side there around the corner of the building. When he walks out, rush him from behind.

Yep. So the city officer, Baker City, his name is Doe Schrade. Doe Schrade. Doe, D-O-U-G-H. His first name is Doe. They thought they were naming him Doug. Doe. Oh, my God. Yeah. why i say i am saying dough

i know it's doug it's fucking dough man you named your that's the word dough i don't care how much you want it to be doug no teacher on the first day of school ever said doug they all said dough is there a doughe in here? Is your name Doe? Did your parents name you Duff? Duff? Is your name Duff? Is it Duff? I'll call you Duff if you want, but I'm not Duff.

I'll call you Duff. It's either Duff or Doe. It's not Doug. I'm never saying that. No, never, never. That H completely takes Doug out of the fucking equation, pal. You're not getting called Duff. How do you spell cough, young man?

Yeah. That's what your name is, Doff. Dude, that's it. Or Doe. You decide whether you want to be Doff or Doe, and I'll get back to you at the end of the roll call. How's that? You decide which one you want to be. Shraid.

Shraid. He drove to Safeway and talks to the Martins. Safeway and talks to the Martins. And then at about 1220, he hooks up with the city detective, John Shepard, who was off duty that day, but offered to help out because he heard about the shit on the police radio. Because this sounds fun. This sounds like an adventure. Nothing happens here. So they're sitting there talking and they're like, OK, he's in a Rite Aid.

How long do they think he's going to be in a Rite Aid? Right. How long do you spend in a Rite Aid? Honestly. It's literally five minutes. It's whatever I'm going there for tums and i'm getting the fuck out you're there for one item and that's it and you're fucking out if you're waiting for a prescription that's another thing but for the most part you're running in you're running out so i don't know what he wanders the aisles yeah he if i could see if he went up to safeway got a big cart from the outside and then went in you go go, he's doing a full grocery shop.

Okay. We got some, we got time here. Yeah, but he's not, he's going in right aid and they take forever trying to like figure out what they're going to do. So they're standing outside the right aid off to the side.

Like, well, I don't know. Should we do that? Well, I don't know. I don't know. Like a whole group of cops.

And he, Morris just walks out and looks at them like, just walks out. Hey, what's going on? They're just, they're just, them. Like, just walks out. Hey, what's going on? They're just, oh, shit, that's our guy. Nobody thought, hey, keep an eye on the store while we argue. Nobody did that. They're just sitting around going, well, I don't know.

What should we do? Oh, shit, there's our guy. So he surprised the shit out of them. He was only in there 10 minutes because it's Rite Aid. Because that's what it takes. That's how long they are. So he walks out of the store um shepherd the detective's wearing street clothes doesn't have his badge on or anything he

whips out his fucking 40 caliber on him yeah he fucking points it at morris uh and his street clothes and yells at him to get him get on the ground i don't know if morris thought he was getting robbed or what at that point but some strange guy in street clothes just pulled a gun on me and said get on the fucking ground. Shepard would later say, I think we caught him off guard. He stepped out of the store right in front of us. He was just like, oh, shit, didn't expect to see them. I guess Morris hesitated for a couple seconds because he didn't know what was going on because he doesn't have a badge.

But then Schrade, who was right there, made his presence known more. And he's got a uniform on. And then they said that Morris at that point, and Schrade also took his gun out, the dough man. Duff Schrade, get on the ground. Duff Schrade, on the ground. Duff Schrade, dough maker. Duff Schrade, the dough boy, get on the ground. He said get on the ground.

He laid down. Schrade, the dough man, Get on the ground. He said get on the ground. He laid down. Shred, the dough man, would later say he just complied. He got down on his knees and laid down and spread. He was pretty humble. What are you going to do? You got two guns on you. You got shit in your hands.

You just bought a Rite Aid. What are you going to do? You're done. It's over. You got a handful of Sudafed and fucking allergy meds. What am I going to do do throw your band-aids at the guy and make a run for the van it's probably not gonna work catch this listerine oh shit so later on baker city police officers arrested him there and um you know here we are this is by the way but this is about 350 miles away from the state forest where all this happened. That's a long way. To the east side of there.

So as they're helping him stand up, they asked him for his name, and he said immediately, Edward Morris. He wasn't trying to hide it. Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm Edward Morris. Then, almost as quickly as he said, I'm Edward Morris, he turned and said, did you find my family? Obviously. Clearly, sir. Otherwise, this would be a nice vacation for you.

But instead, we just pointed our guns at you and told you to get on the fucking asphalt. So we found your family. Remember when you had the blind people naughty spot of the concrete in your chest? Yeah, we found your family. Remember when you had the blind people naughty spot of the concrete in your chest? Yeah, we found your fam. No, we pulled guns on you for your poor handyman work back in fucking North Portland. There's a lawsuit about a terrible roof. Pearl said her light bulb's been blowing out too quickly and blames you. I don't know.

Said her mowing isn't going too well. Yes, it's your family, you dumb fuck. What the fuck else would it be? What do you think this is? You think we're just hanging out at Rite Aid? How much of a piece of shit are you that you don't know which this is about? Yeah. Did you find my family or is this just a social visit?

Like, what are we doing? You a friend of my dad's or something? 45, I know. I was going a little slow, holding up traffic on the thoroughfare. I apologize. I didn't think you guys would hold me at gunpoint after waiting for me to come out of a store. That seems a bit excessive. You just pulled me over on the road.

But I mean, hey, each department has a separate protocol. What the hell do we know? Your policy really, really is aggressive. Oh, my God. So Doe said that he told morris that yes they found your family and uh doe said that morris sighed like he like a relief sigh like kind of a like okay that's over with at least um anyway they take morris away to the police station um he's obviously unharmed at this point he had shaved his head and was wearing wire rim glasses and he grew

a mustache as well so he shaved his head, grew a mustache and put glasses on only thing he didn't realize is a gray minivan with distinctive bumper stickers and a license plate probably is going to stand out more than your stupid head you know what I mean just a thought, tons of guys look like

he looked before that but none of the other ones were driving gray minivans with those exact bumper stickers and license plates. That was the real thing that he needed to separate from. And all he's missing is the plastic nose with the mustache and glasses. It's hilarious. It's everything but a plastic nose or like some sort of weird prosthetic fucking goiter or something strange. It's hilarious. So it gets, this is just fucking ridiculous this gets really crazy so um he uh morris didn't appear to be

carrying a bag from the store at the time he was also had a black trench coat and a black golf hat on so he totally changed his appearance a little bit um the one of the witnesses there said he looked like he had a pretty freshly shaved head i I guess that means it was smooth. Andmonds, Washington, on December 21st. The gas station clerk that wrote down the van's license plate number between 6 and 8 a.m. Okay. And then two hours before he was arrested that day, a store clerk in Abbotsford, B.C., which is 35 miles north of Bellingham, said that a man who looked like Morris bought a newspaper and then left in a silver van this is two hours and it's like seven eight hours away from there okay and even the the uh the constable Shinder Kirk is everybody have a crazy name here Shinder constable Shinder Kirk

of the Abbotsford Police Department said they watched the survey he watched the surveillance video and everything and he said the investigator and i were quite convinced that we had mr morris if it's not him it's his twin brother that poor bastard well must be his fucking twin brother then because guess what not him impossible to be impossible so there's just several 40 year old guys late 30s and fucking gray minivans and short balding hair running around the Midwest. It happens. But they were convinced this was the cops and I watched the video and it was him. And they were like, no, it wasn't.

But that they were searching all up there pretty hard. So they said that he had parked his van about 25 yards from the Rite Aid, kind of put it away from it, didn't park like right in front of the store here. The license plate's still on there, still had his bumper stickers, didn't take anything off of there. The people who were trying to help us out gave us ones that didn't exist. It's what they believed or remembered was on the back. So people said they saw shit with bumper stickers that didn't actually exist on the car as well. That was the other thing.

They saw cars with other bumper stickers and made it that. It's got a Dukakis sticker. It's him. It's got to be him. It's 89. That's 2002. It's an old one. An 88 presidential

campaign sticker on a 93 that is sticking with it that's a loyal man right there that's riding he's coming back i tell you all right it's the second coming of dukakis dukakis shall rise again i feel like this time spoke to me this time he's gonna do it i know he got trounced in one like one state but i really feel like he's gonna pull it off this time the same guy i believe no fingers crossed for 96 guys fingers crossed so um the reaction to him being captured his dad paul morris this is edward's dad said i am numb i don't know what to say i don't know what to do pretty good way of putting it feels like he was he'd rather him have been murdered you know what to say. I don't know what to do. Pretty good way of putting it here. It feels like he'd rather him have been murdered. You know what I mean?

It would have. Yeah, I think he would have. It just sounds like it. Because this sucks. Wait till you hear later, too. His dad kind of throws him under the bus a little bit here. So Renee's relatives said they were elated and they feared that Edward Morris might hurt others and were glad that he was found and taken into custody. And, yeah, they were happy about it.

Edward Morris's father said that he thought his son was a loving and doting parent. And so he was so worried about the threat of violence in public schools, he homeschooled his kids. That's how I don't understand. I don't think he would do this, he said. I just don't understand it. When asked if he believed his son committed the crimes, he said, I find it incomprehensible that the son I knew could do anything of the sort. And also his mom, this is Edward's mom, described him as loving and gentle.

So pretty easy. He also said, quote, he was a devout christian he believed that the word of god was the centerpiece of his life his family was second okay and uh yeah so there you go now they get him at the baker police department there baker city police department and they want to talk to him pretty fucking quick right now he seems pretty amenable to talking. Hold him for a little while. He might have some time to think about it and not want to say a fucking word. Start thinking about how screwed over he is.

Yeah. And then he's going to be a lot more difficult. Climb up. Yeah. Yeah. And also, he'll get an attorney and all that kind of shit because it's going to get out. And there's going to be every attorney in the state's going to want to represent him because it'll make him famous. Every shit heel attorney.

So when they get a there's a detective that gets the call here's a guy named randy crutcher he's a sergeant with the oregon state police department and um he had he's got a broken leg a horse kicked him and broke his leg which sounds like no that's the the the sergeant with the oregon state police department here that guy's out there just fucking around with horses and Sounds like, no, that's the sergeant with the Oregon State Police Department here. That guy's out there just fucking around with horses and letting them kick him? Got kicked in the leg. Yeah, I don't know. It's Beaver City, Oregon.

There's horses everywhere, probably. He probably had to clear a bunch of horses that were gathered downtown, just hanging out drinking in the streets. He's like, come on, horses. Let's disperse. Let's go. Let's go. One of them just kicked him, I'm sure.

One out of one too many. It happens. So he has a broken leg. He was trying to rest up that day. Instead, he gets a call saying, hey, you got to come interview this guy. You're the guy that can do this probably, so you do it. Crutcher, this is the guy's name, he said, my first reaction was that we need to get this person someplace where we can talk to him. We need to create the best atmosphere for getting information.

We can't put him. He immediately thought of the psychology of this whole thing and how do we do this. And he's thinking. A lot of small town police forces, they don't even think. They just stick them in there. They're not used to murder investigations. So they don't really have a lot of the tools for it to do that. So they don't really have a lot of the tools for it to do that.

So he decided on the office where members of the Baker County are Baker counters. Baker's counter drug task force sometimes met. So they're going to meet there. He said that he hobbled in the car and fucking headed out toward town. And so he did. Got in a crutch with a broken leg. Hobbling. That's why hobbling.

He said hobbled. if only he had something edward had to as soon as you walk in with with a hobbled ass legs and i'm crushing active crusher he nicknamed yes you are sir are you always like that is this permanent condition is this what they call you his literal quote is I hobbled out to my car and headed for town, quote, unquote. Crutcher. He said that he knew that he didn't have a lot of time. He said, quote, as time goes on, the more likely it is a person won't cooperate, will have a second thought, and decide not to talk. The minute they say, hey, I want to talk to an attorney, then we're done. The minute they say, hey, I want to talk to an attorney, then we're done.

So before he got there, though, he's racing against time to get there to talk to him. But he also said, I didn't know shit about the case. So if you're going to interrogate someone about a homicide, you need to know everything. So much. To know if they're lying so you can change your questioning. You need to know the whole case front and back before you do that. It to be the person who knows it the best so he said shit he the only thing he knew was what he'd seen on tv and read in the newspaper oh no because it's all the way in western he didn't never thought about it so he talked to the tillamook detectives and um he said quote i don't like to go in and interview a person where when i don't have all the case facts if you

don't have those you can't tell whether the person's making something up. Yeah, you'll believe him. Oh, that sounds reasonable. So while he waited for the phone call, he called Tillamook and said, hey, call me back with this. So he waited for them to call him back. He went in and introduced himself to Morris and tried to make small talk with him. Morris had already been read his rights and all that sort of shit. But Morris said he wanted to talk. And Crutcher said, I basically

just made small talk, building some rapport with him. I said, why don't you write down something that are important to you in this whole thing? And he did. That's I don't know what the hell that was. So after that, he got on the phone to tillamook and talked to them and heard all the details and all the shit that never was released to the public as well so that's how you tell if a guy's bullshitting or not too because if he said he did it you don't know he did it unless he has information that nobody else has but you and him otherwise he could just be lying so they get all the details they can and they even arranged to have an airplane ready to fly them because the Tillamook people are flying to wherever Morris is. So they're going to call.

The trip will take a few hours. So this guy's like, by the time that happens, he's going to have a lawyer. So I got to get this done before they get here. Basically, that's how this works. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So he didn't want to risk it. So they said it's very important when the suspect expresses a willingness to talk that you're there available to take him up on it. No shit. It's if no one's talking to Morris and the enormity of what's happening starts to settle on him. The chances increase that he's going to refuse to talk.

That's why they try to make small talk with him for a while. They but a lot of time this is a guy like him. A lot of times the strategy is stick him in a room and let him sit there for three hours and stew. And then we go in there and he'll be, let him think about it for a while so he's nervous and fucked up about it and that sort of thing. But this is a different thing. They think he'll spill it if they hit him right away. They just start asking him, what's your favorite sandwich and such? Yeah, well.

I like sandwiches. But you know, let me tell you, I me tell you about the time I murdered my family. They actually get him a sandwich. Wow. They actually do. At some point they say, what kind of sandwich would you like? They actually say that at one point. They are out of ideas.

That is amazing. I don't know, get him a sandwich, I guess. I mean, get him a double meat if he wants it. I mean, yeah, it was an extra two-fifths, I guess so. Get it, get it, just get it, just get it. The department will pay for it. He's a dad. He loves sandwiches.

He's got to. He's going to love sandwiches. So within hours, the Tillamook County judge appointed an attorney to represent him. Yeah. So there is an attorney on the way, and he's going to that attorney later on we'll call baker city and try to tell morris to stop fucking talking don't talk yeah don't talk but before that's after this interview that all happens so they have a couple hours so they're sitting in there um it's a two hour and 18 minute interview and it ends because the Tillamook cops get there and his lawyer calls.

It all happens at once. So, um, here we go. Uh, it starts, they talk about just before midnight on December 19th and he talks about, he is on a deserted logging road in the snowy Tillamook state forest is what he, the way he described it. it. He talks about everything that happens here. He spills it. Now, Crutcher has got to sit here and listen to this guy talk about how he killed his pregnant wife and three small children. Oh, God. There's an art to that. Yeah.

There's an art to that. Because a normal person, if someone starts telling you about that, what's your face going to do? Yeah. Freak the fuck out. Even if you're trying not to, your eyes are going to give it the fuck away. That's hard to act like, oh, so then you killed your four-year-old. Yeah, okay. That makes sense.

It's hard to be clinical about that. It really is. To not go, what the fuck? How the fuck do you? What? Why? Yeah. really is to not go what the how the fuck do you what why yeah or getting angry or anything else you know something to have some sort of horrified thing he said that's like one of the that's one of the um main things you got to do he said quote if you show shock horror or anger he may decide that

you're no longer a good audience yeah you know yeah're not his friend. If you're horrified with him. Yeah, he said, though, the whole thing was crazy. He said, it's shocking. You go from a day off thinking you're going to be recuperating to being thrust in the middle of a situation that you know is going to become a media circus and not have any time to prep for that. That's crazy.

He had been a police officer for over 20 years at that point and everything, too. He's very experienced, this guy. He said, but you can't give away what you're feeling. He said, you have your job to do, and that takes precedence over everything. He's the guy who, he's one of the guys who teaches interview and interrogation techniques for the Oregon State Police. So he's the right guy in there. At least they didn't call and they're like, hey, Jethro, can you get down to the station and talk to this guy and he's like so what what happened

y'all y'all just fall out of the car and something i don't understand no they told me come in here ask you why you murdered these kids and such and i fucking hate you i said this guy's a scumbag i ain't talking to him then they made me so talk scumbag. I ain't talking to him. Then they made me. So talk, scumbag. That probably ain't going to work either. Could I have something to drink? No, I ain't giving you shit. You can drink piss. We don't give baby killers fucking drinks around here.

So they click on the cassette recorder, and let's get it on over here and do the confession here so it starts tape starts 2 30 2 34 p.m january 4th 2003 okay um yeah uh he the first few minutes of the conversation are just small talk bullshit just bullshit um he asked morris if uh hey is that subway sandwich okay that we got you yeah and morris's reply quote absolutely wonderful which is the only time anyone's ever said about that about a subway sandwich in the history of subway sandwiches you get a subway sandwich you eat it and someone goes how was your subway and you go all right it it was cheap food yay that's i can get a foot log for seven dollars that's why i got it not because it was good obviously that or or something like you know i'd read a study that their bread is just yoga mats yeah and then you go yeah that's why it's six dollars or seven that's why that's why it's cheap because it's yoga mats that's fine it's yoga mats and that's not tuna i just i just had subway fucking saturday before the i had it before the pap show

i got a turkey sandwich like two in the afternoon turkey yoga mat that's it oh yeah i like extra yoga mat i asked for i like that so um the um they're they're talking bullshit. And yeah, Subway's absolutely wonderful. I'd be creeped out right there. I'd go, you know what? Just fucking cuff this guy again. Put him back in his cell. I'm not talking to anyone who thinks Subway sandwich was absolutely wonderful.

Absolutely killed children. Slam dunk. And feels wonderful about it because this is fucking gross. slam dunk and feels wonderful about it because this is fucking gross so uh apparently he only ate half at first because the cop says we still have the second half here if you need it yeah you know they're going back and forth about everything and uh wow so they're they're kind of kind of easing him in making him comfortable they ask him multiple times if he's comfortable is everything okay um the word murder isn't spoken right away you know like do i why'd you you scumbag you killed your kids you murdered

them didn't you like they're take it easy you know reel him in gently then try and have him fight um he's very polite um morris reserves refers to crutcher as sir the entire time there. He doesn't say yes. He answers correct to the questions that he says. Yes is correct, correct, correct. He's like a perfect specimen here. Even years later, Crutcher said his politeness just stood out to me. It was really weird. His answering machine was genuine.

Son of a bitch yeah this guy is he said quote morris is a man who if you ran into him on the street and talked to him i don't think you'd have a clue that one he did this killed his family and two that he was capable of doing it right so he's like this is just not a guy you'd sit down and think would be the guy so it starts to turn a little bit more toward the whole thing and crutcher before they get into a crutcher says are you warm enough it's cold are you warm enough and morris says quote a little bit chilly i guess i could zip my coat up quote i took the liner out because i was in phoenix where i planned to go into town and kill people what the fuck pardon excuse you heard the tape rewind that was like fuck did you just say

hold on a second we thought you were in canada hiding you were in phoenix planning murder that's the exact opposite shit what the fuck are you and now the cop has to act like okay like he can't act like for real you were in phoenix what the fuck dude what the hell are you talking about he can't act like, for real? You were in Phoenix? What the fuck? Dude, what the hell are you talking about? He can't say any of that shit like you just made. He can't make the face you just made. Planning more murders. I took the liner out because I was in Phoenix where I planned to go into town and kill people. That's his quote.

Unbelievable. This is the first time in the interview where he says anything about anything, any other that could he could possibly ever think about so then they're talking and he says yeah that was the first thing i was gonna do after this and then this is gonna be a stepping stone to becoming a hitman oh this is my audition yeah well you gotta get your feet wet somehow you know know what I mean? You got to get in. I've got to prove myself. Kill strangers. He said he wanted to be a hitman, and he said his point, not like hired by people, though. That's a different kind of hitman. This is a hitman. This is a spec hitman where you kill people and then rob them.

So this is just a robber that kills people. That's what he wants to be. It's called a murderer, sir. It's just called a robbing murderer. That's all it is, an armed murdering robber. That's it. There's no, that's a hitman. Somebody hires you.

You don't know them. You kill them. That person pays you. It's kind of on their moral fucking debit sheet. You, on the other hand, just killing people and robbing them, completely a different, that's not how that works. You own all those debits. He said he wanted to murder strangers, steal their credit cards, and then pilfer their bank accounts.

That's how he would make a living. That's how he planned on going on in his minivan. That's his and then. Going to put glasses on, grow a mustache, and drive my same minivan to Phoenix so I can start being a hitman. That's my plan. That ought to do it. Clean escape, babe. Good to go.

The sprawling metropolis of Phoenix, three million people. You'll never get caught. It's fine. You'll be fine there. I'm sure it'll never happen. I'm sure he's going to be a top hire from all the cartels and shit.

They're going to go, there's a guy from Oregon. He's super Christian and drives a minivan. I think he'd be good for us. I think he's the guy. We're going to find him. They call him Sunday Service. Yeah, you know him.

They call him Joe Elliott. Which I just thought, isn't that the lead singer of Def Leppard? I think that's his name too. Is it? Yeah, I think it is. So there you go. Maybe that's all he was. It wasn't that missionary that missionary it was just he's just super into fucking hysteria

he just plays pour some sugar on me every time he fucking leaves big photograph fan yeah rock of ages he just loves it love rocket no you know it so um yeah that was that was maybe one of their worst ones. That was bad shit. That was bad. Cysteria had a lot of bad ones on it, I remember as a little kid. Not a good one there. Rock baby. They try.

Rock baby. Yeah. Come on. He said that. Come on. He said that into a microphone. Well, he also, in the Rock of Ages ages video held a giant cardboard sword and acted like he was thrusting it and like made a mean face so he has no embarrassment whatsoever no shame no shame whatsoever so crutcher at this point is trying to guide him back to the current murders

hey let's never mind plans for the future let's talk about the people you've killed now um how about that so he does this by he doesn't know how to get to it do you just rather than say did you do it let's just assume that we all know you did it which is what they'll do a lot of times and he just says did you plan to kill your family yeah which is a great way to do it because you can tell a lot by his face morris's answer is quote unfortunately yes oh yeah they're like whoa from now on it's pretty much more is just telling the story crutcher just kind of keeping him on track here and there but you don't want to interrupt a guy while he's confessing to a murder you know what i mean especially when he just said it so fucking callously unfortunately yes yeah that's the thing that

also stands out is the way he does this is a matter of fact horseshit fucking real matter of fact um crutcher says i try never to interrupt that's taking a tremendous amount of that takes a tremendous amount of discipline but i know that whatever he's telling us is for a reason so let him say he's lying let him lie well the lies can also push him into what the truth is because if you know that's a lie so it's a there's a lot to just let somebody talk so um he also said that morris is the ideal suspect to interrogate because he loves to talk he's a talker he's friendly that's what you. People who don't like to talk generally don't like to give up their murder either. They're just not talkers. Guys who talk want to talk.

So he said, that's good. So Crutcher said, my job at that point is just to try to get this guy to give his account of what happened. Once he got to where he was comfortable with us, he felt he could tell us his side of the story. I asked him to go back to wherever he felt was important to start. So he did and um morris um would talk about he he talked about some little things he talked about he had trouble with the fucking get he dropped the dipstick in the engine of the minivan when he was checking his oil and um you know he was just fucking all the like little things he's talking about so they're trying to get him away from that um he did a lot of shit to try to not get caught basically that's because he had uh fucking filled his car up with oil and

stuff like that he did some prep here so um that's bad too because it looks like he was going to try to elude a crime. So that's makes him look more makes him look more guilty. And anyway, at one point, Morris tells Crutcher that as he drove along the freeway after the murder, he tossed out the window the pair of shoes he was wearing when he killed his family. He said, though, because he knew he left footprints in the snow near the murder scene and he was afraid the police could connect the shoes to the murder yeah this is what he says so crutcher later on says he's just hanging himself and i'm just letting him talk yeah he's saying this is how i destroyed the evidence i mean he's he is making this an airtight confession to where there's details that can be verified and you know it's not just he's talking out his ass.

So he says the main issue, Morris is telling him, you know what the main issue was of this whole thing of why he needed to kill his whole family? Oh, I would love to know. Quote, I haven't been a very good provider lately. I felt like half of a person, miserable, terrified. What? Yeah, and?

His issues internally yeah i'm not being as good a provider as i could be so rather than try harder or figure it out i'll kill everybody what but not myself yeah obviously you know i self-preservation yeah that's what i'm saying this is fucking ridiculous but yeah it's money he's upset because they don't have enough money that he needs for his family and he feels like he's not being a good provider and it's that he's put he has put a lot of all that promise keeper shit one thing he's put a lot of pressure on himself to be this perfect fucking guy and this perfect father and when he can't rather than dealing with it right he goes this is my entire image is built up through all this shit i'm a piece of shit rather than just going yeah things happen and figuring it out he figures and this is

the main thing with guys who kill their whole families is i'm fucking up rather than being an embarrassment and having them be embarrassed of me and having the shame of everybody not having everything and all that sort of thing i'll just kill everybody that way there's less pressure on me which is a answer wild fucking thing psychologically it's just that's not logical that's not you can't just jump to that. It's not. But I'm not making an excuse. I'm saying that's what they found in studying these people. That's the reasons why they do it in their mind.

Shocking. Yeah. So, yeah, I haven't been a very good provider lately. I felt like half of a person. Miserable. Terrified. Welcome to adulthood, dickhead. Yeah, I was just going to say, how many times have you felt like that in your adult life?

Oh, my God. How many times have you felt like that in your adult life? Oh, my God. How many times have I woken up? Do you remember us years ago sitting around talking about we both the same one night we were laughing because we were both so broke and we both put Chinese food on our credit cards because we had no fucking money. And this is, you know, eight years ago or something. And none of us were like, well, I'm going to go kill my family now. See you later. Like that wasn't even a thought. It was. No. How the fuck do we get out of this? eight years ago or something and none of us were like well i'm gonna go kill my family now see you later like that wasn't even a thought it was no how the fuck do we get out of this i guess i'll start a podcast maybe that's all he needed what a crazy fucking answer this is fucking nuts you'd

take a giant slug of beer or whatever substance is your choice and you wake up tomorrow you fucking deal go talk to your pastor if you're this guy i bet he'll fucking tell you not to kill your family probably i'll bet you got a group of dudes in the woods that would love to tell you yeah they how they got telling you well they're telling you how great you're supposed to provide for your family so i think that's the that's probably that's that's the issue i think is this pressure that he's put on himself to be a perfect person which nobody's perfect and you can't kill people because you're not perfect. Kill yourself.

How's that? I'm not telling people to kill yourself, but if the options are kill everyone else or yourself, by all means, please kill yourself. I fucking beg of you. If that's the only options that you're going to use, seek help is first. That's it. You've done all of that, you're out of answers. And it is, well, I got to kill either the whole family or me.

Well, walk, fucking go in the garage and start the car, motherfucker. There you go. Get a hose. I don't know what to tell you. Jerry was not singing to you when he said you won't walk alone. You shall walk all alone alone you should walk alone but the answer is never if you're gonna murk your whole family are you serious family kids and everything the end but then you're gonna wake up and you're still here and still a failure man

what the fuck and even more so now it's not reflecting on them now, though. They're in heaven. Yeah. I am no I can. Because he has saved them. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's the other fucking problem that some of these guys think. He said that, Morris said that he had blown nearly $40,000 in the last six months.

Okay. On his business, trying to get it going, and it's not working. Yeah. So basically everything he had for his business isn't working and he's seeing that he might have to claim bankruptcy again and shit like that which they've done before and come back from so who fucking cares you own your house outright you're not going to get you're not your kids your wife and kids aren't going to get kicked out in the front lawn so you make it work as long as you have a roof over your head you can fucking make it work you can figure it out you'll roof over your head, you can fucking make it work. You can figure it out. You'll live another day and be able to blow 40 grand again.

Don't worry about it. Especially if you both have your whole families around you. You both have a huge community with church and shit like that. Something tells me people will help you out, find you work. There's going to be something there for you. I mean, it might be embarrassing for you, but guess what? Life's embarrassing. Who fucking cares?

It's embarrassing to be a human being at all times i'm embarrassed several times a day it's fine wait till you're in your 80s and can't wipe your own ass and somebody else does it for you i'll bet that's a little more humiliating it's worse hang in there it gets worse never have a shit set on stage do that that'd be the somebody's worst fucking nightmare for the rest of their life as a comic you're just like i don't know that happened a couple times i thought it was hilarious and you move on because what else are you gonna do so either way he said morris said he wanted to give more to his wife who he described as beautiful he said she was beautiful she deserved more he said quote i knew she was worthy of so much more than I had provided.

Why don't you ask her how she feels about it? Would you rather be dead or struggling with the bills a little bit? Which one? I bet you she would have. So you took it all? What the fuck? Took it all. Then he goes, oh, my God.

So he was like, so I didn't know what to do about my family, my financial woes in general. He goes, so, you know, the only solution I could think of, and this was the only one I had here. And then he says this quote, all my life I wanted to be a hit man for the mob. What the fuck are you talking about? You live in fucking portland you're roofing what you're you're a handyman no you have to that's not a job you apply for you don't just walk on off the street and you go you're looking for any like hit men or anything like that you kind of kind of be in that life first it's generally a uh a family business you know

that's why it's called the families super nepotistic in that you know a lot of nepotism in that business good old boy network it really is here a real good old guinea network it's real good old wop network it's tough kind of gotta know somebody i'm sorry he says uh morris goes on to say i even tried to kill people in portland before i killed my family what what the anybody think that would happen yeah wow he describes how he hit a hammer inside of his coat and went to downtown portland he said he planned to walk behind someone was looking for a well-dressed person who might appear to be wealthy and was going to hit them on the head with the hammer and steal their wallet. That was his plan. That's not a, first of all, that's not what a hitman

would do. You didn't want to be a hitman for the mob if that was your plan. So you want to be, all right, you want to be in the crew, huh? You're going to do something for us? All right. This fucking guy says he can do it. I don't know. Let me ask you a question. So we say this guy is a witness. He's a federal witness.

He's going to testify, put us all in jail for 100 years. You've got to knock him off. What are you going to do? Well, I'm going to walk behind him with a hammer. I'm going to smack him with the hammer, and I'm going to take his wallet and run away. I got a ball paint. You think the kid's got the goods. He's got the goods, this fucking kid.

Yeah, that's the way we do it. We hit you once with a hammer and leave you there. That should kill you. If not, oh, well. What the fuck is happening? He said, quote, I couldn't do it. Yeah. He could kill his family, though, but he couldn't kill his, okay.

Not a stranger. There's too many variables. He couldn't do it. Yeah. He could kill his family, though, but he couldn't kill his. OK. Not a stranger. Well, he could. Too many variables. He couldn't do it, not because it was guilt. He couldn't do it because there's a hammer in the street. Everyone's going to see that. Yeah. Yeah.

Everyone's going to see you hammering a rich man in the street. Obvious. So he decided. Hammering a man in his Hugo Boss. Yeah. In his tuxedo on his way to the symphony. So he decided he needed something a little stealthier, a little snap to it. So he wanted to get a handgun with a silencer, you know, like the movies.

Right, yeah. Yeah, but he figured his plan would fail because he said he could never get the silencer totally built without his wife finding out. Because he didn't have room to build it. And he's in an 800-square-foot house with fucking three kids and a wife, so you can't make a silencer in privacy there. Kid keeps coming in telling me to play soccer with him. Like, shit, goddamn, I got to build another swing set? How many fucking swing sets do we need?

So then he said that Renee would have never approved of my new career anyway. I thought about it after a while. I'm like, if she she's going to find out at some point and she's totally going to be pissed off that I'm killing people. So he said at that point he decided, quote, so I had to get rid of my family to achieve his dream of being a mob hit man that he knows nobody with. And it is what the fuck are you talking about he couldn't provide the only way he could see providing is to be a hitman so he might and then his wife wouldn't like that he's a hitman so he could either not do that or just kill his family and be a hitman p.s you you killed your family and that same day they were looking for you so

you're a terrible hitman. Awful hitman. The worst, maybe. One of the things that you want in a hitman is someone who's not married to the person you're trying to kill, also. That's a good start with a hitman. Oh, Tony's married? Oh, never mind. We'll use somebody else.

That's what they'd say, probably. Holy shit. He said that he started scanning newspaper ads and classified searching for handguns but soon he got very frustrated because most of the ads were for rifles or shotguns and the handguns were more expensive than he expected didn't know he's not a gun guy so he said i should have known god was against me from the start he said i should have known God was against me from the start. He said, I should have known God was against me from the start. Well, if you believe in God, God would have probably been against you killing your whole family. That's probably true.

Yeah, probably was against you. Holy shit. Or any more of his creatures. Or anybody, really. Especially your own children. Yeah, you got the book right on your fucking dash. How do you not know? Doesn't know.

December 17th, 2002, which is two days before all this ends up happening, he visited a gun store. Yeah. Okay. He picked a gun store in southeast Portland because it was several miles from his home. Nobody would recognize him around there. Not going to run into any pals there. So he told the gun shop clerk that he wanted to buy handguns to protect his family. He also bought a gun safe to not because he needed it, but so this guy would believe him to complete the ruse as like it was out of concern.

Look how much concern I have for my family. So that way it wasn't some wild gunman came in. It was this. He's a regular nice guy so even though he's buying these to kill his family he's making sure that this guy thinks he's a good guy because that means a lot to him that everyone thinks he's a perfect guy okay that's a that's a problem um he didn't say to the clerk that he didn't say to the clerk but he said that he knew he was going to kill his family with the guns but he wasn't going to say that he was going to say he wasn't so he said that he wasn't accustomed to

lying either so it was difficult for him uh at first but then he said after a while quote i found it easy and i'm good at it he said and i don't even like liars i hate liars but evidently i'm good at it turns out you just say words and then people believe them. It's really crazy. It's wild. He bought a.38 revolver and a.22 semi-automatic pistol. That's what he bought. He said he can't remember the name of the store, although he believes it was on 82nd Drive. He said that he's sure police could confirm the name

by checking his credit card records and seeing, obviously. So they did, uh he was telling the truth he the store was on 82nd drive and the records show that he spent 1172 dollars and 87 cents at the store on tuesday december 17 2002 you know so there you go he told the clerk that one of the one of the 22 uh the 22 pistol was for him and the other was for his son, is what he told him. So he also said the gun store employees were really nice. They generally are, yeah.

Real nice. Yeah, it's expensive as fuck. You're dropping 1,200. People will usually be nice to you in any store. He said that two days after that, that he surprised his wife on the 19th by telling her that he rented a home on the Oregon coast for the night. Let's all go out there, you and the kids and me, and we'll look at the water and we'll be beautiful. I was a good liar.

And then I just went home and started lying my ass off. Yep. Well, he said, too, she kept wanting to leave. Like, well, let's go. Let's go. And he kept stalling because he didn't want to leave till after dark because he didn't want to be in the light because they didn't have anywhere to go. There wasn't a place. He didn't rent a place to go.

So he had to be in the dark. So he Morris also said at this point he was worried that if he left too early, somebody might drive by him while he was killing his family out there. He wanted to go out on the road if it's light out. Fuck. gonna go out on a road if it's light out fuck so he said he pulled you know got his uh everybody in the van and drove out there and drove onto a logging road that meets oregon highway six it's a curvy road that connects the willamette valley to tillamook that's what it is there it's uh he said it's about 10 30 at night and uh he said he was in the driver's seat and renee was in the passenger seat and brian alexis and jonathan were asleep in the driver's seat and Renee was in the passenger seat and Brian, Alexis, and Jonathan were asleep in the rear seats of the minivan.

So he brought the van to a stop and he told Renee to close her eyes because he had a surprise for her. That is disgusting. At this point, this is where he starts to sob softly on the tape, by the way, in the confession here. He tells them at this point now in detail of what he did. He said he walked to the rear of the minivan and opened up the hatch, and that's where he had the guns.

He reached inside and retrieved the.22 pistol that he bought two days earlier. He tucked the pistol into his waistband. And then in his other hand, he pulled out from the trunk, a pellet gun. So he had a 22 pistol and a pellet gun with him. Okay. That's strange.

Um, he, at that point he said he considered getting back in the van and driving home. He had the two guns and this was like, you know, not cutting time. It's, you're going to do this or not. And he does, he considered just getting in the van and going, he had the two guns and this was like you know nut cutting time is he gonna do this or not and he does he considered just getting in the van and going well you know

what let's go home and turn around and going home and figuring it out but then he said that um wow in the tape it said that he he makes a sound that's quote part weep and part laugh is the way it's described by this reporter and says that he points out that how ridiculous it would have been to explain to his wife that he intended to kill her. But then he changed his mind. So he's like, I can't do that. Obviously, can't just be like, sorry, was going to kill you. But now I'm not. Let's go home.

You could have made something up. Maybe you could have said, oh, I had a I thought there was any fucking make something up, bro. Go to the back and make something up. Who gives a shit? It's better than this. So, yeah, he said so. He couldn't do that. He said, quote, I was chickening out, but I didn't give myself any back door.

I loved Renee so much. I didn't want her to think I was a horrible person. How about don't tell her you were going to kill her and just forget the whole thing and stop? You've got a conscience and it's telling you. It's telling you what to do. Well, it's all I didn't want her to think I was a horrible person. It's better for her to be dead than have a bad opinion of me. You get this, though?

What this is all about is what people's opinions of me. I don't want the gun shop guy on the other side of the city who I never met and I'll never see again to think bad of me. I want him to know that I want to protect my kids from these guns

so I buy a safe even though I'm going to kill everybody. This is the mentality we're dealing with here. So didn't want her to think I was a horrible person. So he walked to the passenger's, the van side,

the passenger van door there. And he told Renee to keep her eyes closed. So he walked to the passenger's, the van side, the passenger van door there. Yeah. And he told Renee to keep her eyes closed. What if she doesn't? He aims the pellet gun at her closed eye and pulls the trigger. It's a fucking pellet gun. Yeah. It's a, I have a bunch of pellet guns, as you know. We've shot them before.

The handgun pellet guns, the most you're going to get out of them, and they're mostly BBs too. The strong ones are BB guns. It's going to hurt, yeah. The most you're going to get, even from the pellet, the ones I have that are pellet, are 500 feet per second. That's what you're going to get out of that, which is way – it's a pellet.

It's not that heavy, and it's 500 feet per second. It's not going to go through – you could probably kill a squirrel with it maybe, but you're not going to kill a human being. It could go through an eyelid maybe, second it's not going to go through it'll you know you could probably kill a squirrel with it maybe but you're not going to kill a human being maybe but it's not going to kill anybody that's what i mean it's not going to kill anybody so that's i mean there's high-powered rifles yeah they're you know i have one that's 1500 feet per second a crazy fucking pellet gun my god yeah people use it to like hunt like squirrels and squirrels and shit i just target practice with it but anyway there's that so um jesus christ he shoots her in the eye with the pellet gun okay cries out screams said what are you doing why are you what the fuck what the fuck

so i'm sure she didn't say fuck but what are you doing what are you doing so he starts to cry as he's telling this and um he said that um for some reason i thought renee would just die i just shot her once in the eye with a pellet gun and she'd just keel over and die he thought he said but she didn't it wasn't like in the movies nobody's ever been shot in a movie with a pellet gun and died what are you talking about especially like that right yeah maybe she would get an infection and die two weeks later but you're not gonna 1700 she might get gangrene yeah i'd have to fester for a while she's not gonna die right there asshole so he said that he shot her with the pellet gun because he hadn't had time to make a silencer for the pistols and he was afraid someone would hear the gunshot yeah those are loud yeah so he was like i shot her with the. And he was afraid someone would hear the gunshot. Yeah those are loud.

Yeah. So he was like I shot her with the pellet gun figure. And that would do the trick. And it's quiet. And the kids are asleep. And so nobody will hear it. So he's like fuck. So he did that.

Then he says on the tape he goes. Yeah I guess I'm just ignorant about guns. Sounds like it. Then he says quote. I was such an idiot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You are really an idiot. That's the understatement of the century here yes absolutely he said then he shot renee with a 22

pistol um he said but that wasn't fatal either no because that didn't kill her either yeah no uh but the shot did wake his kids up i'll'll bet. Yeah. So then he said he shot both the boys with a.22, with the.22 again. He shot them when they woke up. Not the girl, both the boys. He then said he drove a short distance along the logging road, and Renee was alive for 45 minutes here. Oh, God. After he shot her, he said she would go in and out of consciousness

here and there because she's bleeding and pregnant um she would wake up she told him that she loved him and that jesus loved him and that they both forgave him for what he'd done wow that's a nice lady yeah that is a nice lady also that is a vicious lady because if she does die, that's going to be in his fucking head the rest of his life. Yeah, but she means it. She's not trying. She means it. Like, it's okay. That's fucking wild.

He said that he was afraid to fire the.22 again because he didn't want anybody to hear, so he stabbed Renee in the chest. Oh, my God. He stabbed her. Then, oh, my God, he had shot both his sons. he stabbed her um then oh my god he had shot both his sons he stabbed her he hasn't done anything to his daughter yet right then he drives a little farther down the road and stabs his daughter as well she gets it last which in most of these it's always a little girl who gets it last from the father because that is fucking horrible because that's the worst that's the thing you're so you

in your brain you're trying to protect the most if you're a father in my mind anyway you protect the boys too but for some reason a little girl you think it's a weird thing that a father has i don't know and pre-10 years old we can't help it a pre-10 year old girl is yes so so innocent and yes oh my god fragile and yes free pre-10 year old kids in general but with a boy you're like yeah go ahead and fall down and skin your knee with a girl you're like are you okay right let's get you some i lose my mind yeah there's blood coming out of any of her limbs i lose my shit yes so he ends up stabbing his daughter oh god he says about five or ten times uh by the way um he stabbed her 18 times oh my god yeah five or ten times um but also renee um the doctors he said he shot her twice once with the pellet gun once with the 22

then stabbed her in the lungs it turns out by. Instead, the doctors removed two pellets and four bullets from her body. Yeah, twice. So he shot her four fucking times with the.22 and it didn't work. So I don't know if, and this happens a lot, too. Psychologically, people will block some shit out like this and make things more easy for them to digest. make things more easily for them to easy for them to digest yeah especially because i mean i don't know is five or ten times less well i think less of you if you said your daughter stabbed you stabbed your daughter five or ten times as opposed to one or two i mean i don't think it matters at that point or 18 18 18 or five or ten it doesn matter. What's the difference? She dead? You stabbed her.

She felt it. You kept going. That's crazy. Fuck. So he had trouble moving his wife's body out of the minivan. So he couldn't get her out because she's heavy. She's pregnant and big. She was a very large pregnant woman at that point.

So what he did is, Jesus Christ, he cut her legs. He started cutting her legs hoping to drain the blood to reduce the weight. He thought it was just liquid that was the problem? Yeah. She's just retaining water, maybe. That's what it is. It's called dead weight. That's the problem.

Right. So he thought he would drain all the, because the blood must weigh, what, 70, 80 pounds, I'm sure, in there? What do you have, like five quarts of blood in your body you know what that weighs the term dead weight is fucking literal man yeah idiot a gallon of milk weighs seven pounds so what does that say to you how much is in your body what do you got two or three gallons in there is that it i don't know five quarts i don't know what that comes out to a gallon i'm not a i've given blood before and was like, that seems like I shouldn't have any left.

Yeah, it seems like that should be all, right? I'm tapped. So he hauled, after that, he hauled Renee, Brian, and Jonathan's bodies to one side of the logging road, threw them off into the bushes over there. Then he threw his daughter on the other side. What is that about there's a lot of i want the psychology there so bad of what that is exactly i know what it is because it happens all the time i realize what's happening i want to know exactly why that happens keeping that separate but what it's the same fucking act you killed the family in one act killed her in a

different act in your mind he drove to another spot to kill his daughter. Right. So you even kill her with everybody else. Then dump all them there. Dump her here. It just doesn't make any sense across the road. It's very fucking strange. That was the other thing, too.

They found her body last because it was across the roads. They were like, we think we got some. Oh, no. Here's a fucking tiny child girl. This is disgusting. He said after that, he drove back to Portland. Really? Drove back to Portland, went to his house first, stopped home, retrieved the, quote, blonde rock star wig that he had bought the day before.

You know, one of those blonde wigs. It's just crazy. He got a Sammy Hagar. He bought himself a Rod Stewart wig. Unbelievable. Fucking got himself a david lee roth right he's gonna go on go run the day before yeah yep in addition to the to the glasses he said he then drove east on i-84 not north he said he had about three thousand dollars

cash he nearly fell asleep near the dales that's why he exited and pulled into the motel because he almost fell asleep he said he didn't want to show his driver's license or otherwise reveal the name to the motel clerk because he's afraid that the cops would be tracking him by the morning so he said he invented a cover story and said that he lived in anchorage alaska and lost his driver's license while he was mugged in albuquerque new mexico which if you said you were mugged in albuquerque new mexico you go that's that you were mugged in Albuquerque, New Mexico, you go, that's, that seems right. I believe that checks out. I mean, probably if I'm that hotel clerk, I have a 20 minute conversation with him about

how much Albuquerque sucks. He's just trying to get away from me the whole time. You're like, no, no, no, no. I got more. That's chitchat. He is. And he did that. He said he slept several hours, then continued driving east on I-84.

He said he drove almost constantly for much of the next day. He passed Baker City and followed 84 and 80 southeast through Idaho into Utah, then Interstate 15 south to Las Vegas. Wow. The opposite of where they were looking for him. The literal other side, southwest, fucking southeast or northeast. It is not even close to where they were looking for him. The literal other side, southwest, fucking southeast or northeast. It is not even close to where they were looking. Yeah, couldn't have been further. Couldn't have been further.

He says that he thought he had enough cash to start his new life as a man who killed people for their money. Stunning. He's three grand. He's going to start a new life with that. What year is this? 19 fucking 11? You could maybe start with three grand? Start with a corporation.

He said, I'm a very frugal person. Okay. Well, LLCs are more than that. That's what I mean. He said he planned to dress like a businessman. I don't think he's going to get an LLC for his hitman company. Probably not, but you don't know. You never know.

He planned to dress like a businessman so he wouldn't seem suspicious, and he was going to buy a farm where he could bury the bodies of his victims. That's what he was going to do. His plan was move there, buy a farm. That way he could kill people, bury them in the farm. No one will ever know. He'll just dress like a businessman. Everyone will think he's a normal guy, and then he'll just have a body farm at his house.

No one will ever know no one will know um he told the he tells the detectives here that he thinks on a successful day he could probably make three grand a day doing murder he thinks that's a person a day right or i suppose unless he's going cheap yeah that's real cheap if someone tells you three grand for murder like we said that's a cop so those are rock bottom prices he is like dollar store hit man i mean that's so much they'd be at the dollar store so then they gave him a felt pen and an atlas and told him to outline on this paper and he goes you want me to write on it and they were like yeah just go ahead and write on it on the map he said quote i guess i'm gonna cost the

state thousands of dollars what's a couple bucks for a map? And he starts drawing. We didn't want to ruin the map. He's like, is it okay if I draw it? Yeah. He said he couldn't remember the name of the town near Las Vegas that he visited, only that it started with a P. Okay? Parump.

So, exactly. We know that from that news one. We remember that reality show. They decide, they said that, um also live pd they're in perum all the time in nye county that's near there and it's a horrible place oh it's a barren desert with it's the it's the it looks like they're testing nuclear weapons there currently it's still fucking terrible looking so they said um he they they didn't know either they were talking and then out of nowhere he just said perump i got it and he goes that's it that's what it is

parump and they said it was like he remembered the lyrics of a song parumpapumpum I have no kids to kill parumpapumpum that's what this guy is Jesus Christ parumpapumpum parumpapumpum that's what this guy is jesus christ oh my god i'll bet that's how he i guarantee you that's what that's what happened

it's maybe yes if he just shouted like he remembered lyrics that's the only song on earth that would sound like that he said that his first plan was to buy a train ticket from seattle to vegas then drive to seattle and leave his minivan in the long-term parking lot of the seattle tacoma airport wow pretty good that is a lot um he said that he wanted to police to find his minivan and assume that whoever killed his wife and children murdered him as well then took a flight from that airport that's what the plan was he said quote then i can go on my killing spree obviously um but he said that he found out amtrak didn't stop in vegas so he was like god damn it so then he said fucking benton arizona he said then he had several other schemes including finding a gray minivan similar to his and just swapping out the license plates.

How is that a good plan? What are you talking about? Well, because if someone runs a plate, they'll see it's registered to the same car. It's a gray Dodge minivan. Same thing. Unless they get up on the VIN number, they're not going to know it's a different car. So for him, that disguises his car. But if they're looking out for your car based on that tag that does fucking nothing no you steal their license oh i got it

your car why the fuck would you i thought you were saying he was gonna get another car and put his tag on that criminal mastermind what's his infatuation with fucking and i'm like what are you talking about i'm like we are on completely different planets of what works with making this plan is that's what it is okay that makes way more sense yeah yeah yeah just grab the license plate and steal that oh my god steal that car put my tag on it i'm on there we go now i'm safe i'm driving a different gray minivan with the same license plates i just like minivans man i just love this minivan it's a good car he says oh my god he says he didn't at any time that worry worry about returning to oregon because he didn't think police had found the bodies yet so he thought he was good he said that none of his friends expected the family to be home until the

20th when it was dress rehearsal for the christmas play at the church then he stops and says quote i probably ruined that play my wife was co-director and my kids were the stars my two oldest kids oh i'd say you fucking destroyed it they're not how yeah ruined it isn't they didn't just put it on with the understudies. Half the people in the play were murdered. It's a church play. It's over. They're not going to fucking keep it on.

Timmy, did you remember your lines? Because little fucking Brian is dead. No one said that. That's disgusting. This guy's an asshole. He then said, they said, well, where were you going to live until you saved up money for a farm? And he said that he decided on the way down there into Arizona, he was going to build a dirt house and live in the desert. A dirt house?

You can't build a dirt house, man. You just can't build a dirt house. It's not sand. It's not a castle. You can't build one of those. You just can't. Build a dirt house. Do you know how long that would take?

A dirt house. What the fuck are you talking about? The natives did it. I can do it. No, you can't. What, like on the side of a mountain? Like on a cliffside? Are you going to carve it out of the rock like the natives?

No. I heard of Montezuma's castle. I'll do that. He said he was going to build a dirt house in the desert live in it live in it this is like the guy what is it up there with people just living in this guy living in a hollowed out tree he's gonna make a dirt house what's happening he said then he was just gonna do quote most of my killing in the winter it's hot there in the summer i was just gonna just gonna stay in the dirt house all summer

out there he said well killing in in a warmer season would be problematic because it's going to be hard this is his logic he said it'd be hard to conceal a weapon while wearing shorts he is out of his mind what the fuck how about if you were gonna murder somebody just wear pants that day maybe just wear pants a lot. Maybe just wear pants. A lot of people in Phoenix wear pants even when it's hot when they have to go to work. There's a lot of guys. What do you think? There's lawyers walking around with shorts on?

He just said that he was going to dress like a businessman. What is that, in dress shorts? What are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about? Jesus Christ. My God, he's an idiot. It would be hard because you can't kill and steal a weapon wearing shorts so i'll just sit in my dirt house over the summer and wait till the winter when the tourists come and then murder them then he says quote i remember i've wanted to be a

murderer since i was a kid what the fuck is going on who are you you've had all this time to plan it you've been nowhere evidently because you've never been never been to Phoenix to know there are no fucking dirt houses. No, you can't. No, you can't build a house from dirt. And if you get a foot into the ground, it is solid as a rock and you need dynamite to make the fucking, you need dynamite to make it move. So it doesn't work, dude. Jesus Christ. dynamite to make it move so it doesn't work dude jesus christ he said that before he left nevada for arizona though he came across a man sleeping in a ford explorer parked along a gravel road a

couple hundred feet from a highway near perum and he says he considered robbing and possibly killing the man but he decided not to okay i only kill children and pregnant women i only kill people that are very important to me. Good God. Once he got to Arizona, he said he drove to Flagstaff. He said, we went to Flagstaff. We went to Flagstaff. Wait, what?

We went to Flagstaff. Then he chuckles and says, we. I'm getting like you too much, Randy. He says to Crutcher. That's the guy's name, Randy Crutcher. He says, I'm starting to include you in my trip. Oh, my God.'re we me and you he goes Jesus like because because he was saying hey we got to figure this out because the cops always say we we're all a team you're going to tell us and then we take you to jail that's how that works but you go there and I go there I go home and you

go to jail then we're done for the day and then we will see each other in court then we i will see you in court where we will be together again he said uh then i then we will wave goodbye to you he said near camp verde between flagstaff and ph Phoenix, he stopped at a church. He told the pastor his real name and said that he was writing a book and looking for a secluded property to rent. So he said the pastor let him sleep in the church's fellowship hall. He says, quote, he was a nice guy. I hated that I had to lie to him. You killed your kids.

Stop worrying about shit like this. Fucking arrogance. So he arrives shit like this. Fucking arrogance. So he arrives in Phoenix on December 23rd. He found a Sears. I'm trying to think of which Sears he found. Probably. PV Mall. In 2005.

That area. Oh, you know where it was? It was fucking Metro Center. Metro Center. Right on 517. Where do you hear? That's right. They had the Sears.

Where do you hear this? He said that he bought there. He bought a welder and a drill, a drill press. He thought these are the tools he needs to build the silencer for his gun. He's going into business for himself here. He says that he recalls he wanted the 12 inch drill press, but decided he couldn't afford the $194 price. So he brought the eight inch drill press for $94 instead.

He worried, though, the smaller press wouldn't be sufficient to construct a usable silencer. When you're starting a business, really you shouldn't skimp on things like that. He also told the cops that he wished the homemade device would just explode and kill him. He said, he said, quote,

I'd be okay with that. It's what I deserved. Well then why didn't you just shoot your fucking self in the head? That's easy. 38 man. man um he then starts talking about so he then stops this chronological thing and backs up and says how he spent hours trying to clean his wife's blood from between the seats of the minivan so i spent so long do it he said quote i did such a bad job of killing her and she bled a lot yeah yeah you're a terrible hit man he said you're the worst hit man you think that you could you cut people's legs and it makes them easier to carry he said he eventually gave up uh he did claim that pre-moistened like

baby wipes that he had in the van um he said were quite effective in cleaning up blood spatters though so he said that was pretty good like on glass and stuff they'll take it right out those things are amazing you ever they're not bad at all poop blood they're anyway converse shoes that soul you can't clean anything off of those but baby wipes they'll make them brand new it's like what am i rubbing on my children this is mr clean eraser things too i don't know if you can wipe wipe a kid's ass with those though i don't think that'll work as well so he said quote this is what he said quote they're wonderful for things of that nature unbelievable that's the commercial right there right a murder and interrogation room says that now you might be offended but in the end when you go to buy a wipe you're gonna go

that one cleaned up brain matter like and blood spatter inside of a caravan i think that's the one right like i'm buying that although i'm sorry i'm horrified by the commercial i'm definitely buying it so he then said he spent the next week or so in phoenix or in the desert west of the city oh my god where you live yeah he said that he spent the next week or so there did all that he said he brought bought a power inverter but it wouldn't work to run his welder so he never made much progress on the silencer he's such an idiot the police did find a silencer in progress with a single hole drilled when they searched his van so he started it but he's like it couldn't go anywhere on it so he told the truth threaded

there's so much work on that it's a lot he said he met a man who told him about an abandoned building as large as an airplane hangar and uh he said that he burned probably 150 worth of gas looking for but never finding the hangar he talked to us yeah he talked to a crackhead who once saw a hangar somewhere and thought it was there they said well what the fuck did you care about a hangar for anyway do you want to live in there? And he said, well, no. Quote, imagine how many bodies and cars you can store in a hangar. What the fuck? He thought he could just use that as like his own storage unit for bodies and dead bodies and cars. They'd never find it.

No. Slept in his van. He said he lit three candles when it got chilly at night because he was out in the desert and it's cold out there. He said he even had to start the van's engine every two hours or so to run the heater for a minute just to knock the cold off the place for a little bit. He said that he bought two more candles after that and that was for a total of five. And he said that was good for four hours without running the van's heater if he could have candles in there.

So January 1st, 2003, he drove to Phoenix to start his career. He's like, well, time to kill now. It's New Year's Day, noon day. New year, new me. He said, quote, I intended to kill that night, is what he said. He said he met up with a man named Sean that night. Not met up with him, but met a man named Sean who was still tipsy from a New Year's Eve party and had driven his car off the road. Listen to this.

Anybody named Sean in phoenix think about new year's eve 2002 into 2003 if you got drunk drove your car off the road that night you were this fucking close to getting murdered by this guy lucky to be alive think about your fucking choices never mind driving your car in what paul this man was going to murder you you're playing with the house's money today he said he stopped and intended to murder him but instead he just drove the man home he just gave him a ride on his own car he's like you're pretty tanked i'll take you so he then said he drove around what he described as a rather seedy neighborhood in north phoenix you know where we used to live yeah uh the sort of place where bars and tattoo parlors

greatly outnumber churches which is yeah cave creek road yeah sunny slope uh bell road between seventh street and bell road the whole stretch which is exactly where both of us lived at that time which is perfect and he's just looking for people to kill yeah wandering around there so meanwhile that that guy that sawed people's heads off was right there at the exact same time. That's what I mean. It's crazy. And then he said, quote, and that place was poorly lit, too. Yep, sure is.

Yeah, that's Phoenix. Yep, that's Phoenix. There's neighborhoods with not a streetlight. Nary a streetlight. Nary a shadow. He said, just the sort of target area I was looking for. Oh, God. Listen to that, city council.

Get that shit together. He said he could kill a couple of people without even robbing him, robbing them, too. He didn't want to start right away. He said, I'll just kill people just to get the hang of it at first. That way it would become easier and easier. He said, quote, but I couldn't even get out of the car. I'm already realizing, oh, no, there's no hope for me. Like, I'm going to be a terrible hitman here.

You're just a piece of shit, sir. So he decided on the second that he couldn't kill anyone else. And he decided he's going to drive back to Oregon and turn himself in. That's what he said. But first, he wanted to see the Grand Canyon. It is beautiful. He said, God gave me a beautiful family and I destroyed it. I wanted to see something beautiful that I couldn't ruin. It's true. It's amazing. It is beautiful. He said, God gave me a beautiful family and I destroyed it. I wanted to see something beautiful that I couldn't ruin.

It's true. It's amazing. It is. It's pretty wild. So he described the murders in a little bit more detail. And he said he hiked for a couple miles along the canyon's rim, watching the sun rise after he killed his family. And he said it was pretty but i really

needed to go i really needed to have my wife there renee and i had always wanted to go to the grand canyon i kept seeing all these beautiful families well maybe if you didn't murder yours you could have invited her wow he says from there he drove to utah then north and retraced the 15 to 80 to 84 interstates and at that point at 4 45utcher says, the investigators arrived from Tillamook. And he said, wow, that was a fast drive. And Crutcher said, well, they flew. That's why they're in a plane. And he said, well, I can finish the story in a couple minutes here.

Let's get this going. He said, I stopped in Boise early that morning. Never the places where he was seen where people definitely saw him and wrote down his license plate. All those people are full of shit. They're all liars or mistaken. One of the two. So he said he stopped in Boise on January 4th intending to buy gas and 100 feet of rope. He said that he intended to use the rope to haul his wife's body to the van so he could dispose of them better.

Why don't you tie it to a tree and jump you fuck how about they were found two weeks ago asshole he says he also intended to recover his children's bodies and have them in the van when he turned himself into the police he wanted to he wanted to stack his family's corpses in the van and drive to the police station and turn himself in corpses in the van and drive to the police station and turn himself in hi we're here and then get out and go there's the fam there's the fam in full rigor how you doing holy hell yeah half do two weeks of decomp fucking decomp on him how are you yeah i'm here i brought them in for you to make it easy if he would have seen those bodies he would have never done it i don't think so no way he said he only the store only had 50

foot lengths of rope and that's why he exited the freeway at baker city to check right aid for 100 foot ropes because drug stores always have 100 feet of rope on hand maybe right what ad has they been doing that's got him convinced they have everything safeway would have been a better option like somewhere in their like yard department there There's a Home Depot nearby, I guarantee it. They've got it. I know there is. So he says, you know, he concluded the story like that. He said that he didn't get a chance to go to another store.

He came, looked for the rope, came out, and boom, there we go. Fucking cops got me. And Crutcher says, I can't tell you, Edward, how much I appreciate your candor. Just made things very easy. says i can't tell you edward how much i appreciate your candor just made things very easy and they said is there he said is there anything that the police have promised you um or anything like that that you want me to fulfill for you anything going and he just said that i could just that i could finish my sandwich and use the bathroom can i have that other half that's all he wants of subway 452 the tape ends and that's that so they have him dead to rights, obviously, on everything.

The thing that he described a lot was that Crutcher described as saying that he was probably the most enigmatic killer he's ever met in his life. He just didn't understand this guy. He said he talked about the bodies of his wife and children in detached clinical terms, almost as though he were a medical examiner conducting the autopsy of a person he never met. He said at other times in the interview, he cried when he talked about his wife, whom he described as beautiful and about his wonderful children. He said, quote, He does show appropriate emotion, and I think that was really remorseful. He cries because I think he feels genuine sorrow that he's done this. He says that he also believes his religious convictions including his belief in his wife and children are in a better place are making him less uh whatever he said he also believes that

you know he fucking he said that i would have looked at him first anyway you always look at the person closest to home and he said there was no question in my mind as the case unfolded that this guy had done it and he said that um Morris once asked to help get him the death penalty. He said, will you help me get the death penalty? That's what Morris asked him. It's very easy, sir. Well, the prosecutor said he doesn't think he's going to do the death penalty because he said that he's not sure what he's going to do because Morris is ready to plea. And he goes, I might want to take it to trial and get the death penalty because he said, but maybe not because he's worried that doctors might determine that he's not mentally competent because he sounds fucking crazy.

The things he's saying are out of control. The prosecutor said he's a very, very weird guy, but he clearly knew what he was doing wrong. That's why he ran. So he said that was one thing. But he said they also looked into renee morris's parents they said they wanted finality in the case something impossible in a death penalty case because there's all these appeals and all this type of shit so he goes this is going to be told them it's going to drag on for years if we go for the death penalty 20 years from now

you're going to be coming to court still and uh he said their wishes are something i clearly took into account this seemed like the best decision in the case. So they decided to take a plea bargain from him. Yeah. They also said about the police, they all work together very professionally to make this come off. I'm sorry this got dumped on them, but I'm glad they handled it in a place that was prepared to handle it. Even Morris's lawyer says that they did a good job of interviewing him and there was nothing wrong with that. They didn't make one motion to throw anything out of his confession out or anything.

He said, quote, there was nothing from the police conduct point of view that would have interfered with them using the entire statement in trial. Had the case gone to trial, he said the folks in Baker City went by the book. They got everything they needed in the time they had. Yeah, nothing. He said it was perfectly by the book. So, yeah. What's up with dudes killing their family? Okay.

Found this from a psychologist in an article done on it. They said men who kill their families are particularly bothered by such financial problems because they have an exaggerated belief that their families can't survive without them. Yeah. They have to protect. They have to provide. The irony irony of course is that the your family is so important that you kill them the father the father believes the family can't make it without them so they're better off dead which is true that christian longo guy told

investigators after his arrest that his family had the biggest bearing on anything that i ever did every action i ever took whether honest or dishonestest. Sure. Over and over and over again. They said that's what it is. When he appears in court, Morris' dad says he hopes he gets the death penalty. Really? He says he doesn't look like the son I knew. He looks like the kind he considered a big joke. He said he doesn't act like he realizes the seriousness or the consequences of what he's been charged with.

Wow. That's what he said. That's what the father said. Yeah. So it just doesn't look like it. He said if he's found guilty in the state decides the death penalty is pertinent. My wife and I will not intervene to prevent that. We'd appreciate it.

Yeah. She thanks. He came into court and yeah they said that he was you know he was polite and did his thing. 2004, in September, he pleads guilty to seven counts of aggravated murder. And in November, they come to sentencing. And the judge here says, you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison without the possibility of parole. And he waived the right to any appeal of anything,

sentence or case. Done and done and done and clean and done. The family said they'd rather have that than go to court for 20 years, so that's what they did. So good for them. Go talk about your dead grandchildren for 20 fucking years? That's horrible.

That's horrible. That would just be, at least now he's in jail, he can forget about them or whatever you want to do with him. But there you go, everybody. There is something so different than what we've had in a long time. So I just kind of wanted to be a different case. Just every case we always go.

Well, you could see that coming from five years ago. You could see that this there's no warning whatsoever till he goes to the gun shop two days before. There's no warning. Thank God for that lady and her quirky, weird shit of looking at license plates because without her that i mean he was probably gonna have to turn himself in pretty soon he's on thank you you nosy bitch thank you i appreciate it no yeah honestly you're no that finally it paid off so nosy weird fucking quirks fix it did it so there you go if you enjoyed that story, tell the world about it. Get on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform

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This week, we're going to finish up our sex scandals talk for crime and sports part three, finishing up the Duke fuck list, several other weird things. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about serial killers who happened to also be in the mafia because that's really interesting because it's the only profession on earth where being a serial killer will help your career. It really is the only one. Otherwise it's a huge hindrance. It really is.

So, and as we're going to talk about a few of those guys, there's some sick bastards. So, uh, that I've come across over the years reading. So we'll talk about all of that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

And you're going to get a shout-out. My God. When are you going to get a shout-out, God damn it? James, right now. Right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with those names like someone who would never kill me because he was afraid we were going to be broke. Let's do it now.

This week's executive producers are Brianna Vandemark, Corporal Carl Kirshner, who was thankful to come to the Wisconsin show. That was nice of them. Thank you, Corporal Carl. JB and Yeti Shetty, Maria Wiedeker, and her cat Tofu had a 10th birthday. How about that? Happy birthday, Tofu. 10 years.

Do me a favor. Lick your ass for me to celebrate. There you go. Right now. Justine McNeil, Carol Braun, happy birthday. And I'm a good now. I'm a good now. I'm a good now. Other producers this week are Felicia Crystal Jordan, Megan Bethel, giving it both ways,

Peyton Meadows, Frank the South African birdwatcher whore, also Frank the South African birdwatcher, Thomas Smith, Haystacks Calhoun, Jennifer White, and the Whites of West Virginia. Her husband's actually related to them. How insane is that? Oh, my God. Yeah. $50 bill. Happy birthday, Berta.

Janice Hill. Cody Leversey is marrying Delaney. September 17th. Congratulations. Congratulations. September 17th. Remember, Cody is having sex tonight. That's right.

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