Small Town Murder - #323 - Grumpy Violent Old Men - Shawnee Township, Ohio

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

This week, in Shawnee Township, Ohio, a strange relationship exists between two older brothers, who live together, and seem to have an ongoing feud. One has a history of arrests for violence, and the other has a history of being hospitalized for mental illness. Perhaps inevitably, this ends in a most horrific, and violent murder, leaving one of the brothers full of holes, with a rope around his wrist, and a remote control trapped underneath him. The offending brother has a seriously weird story to tell police, as he tries to justify his actions. Super crazy, from start to finish!Along the way, we find out that men don't age peacefully in the same house, that it's hard to claim self defense when the other party is reclining, and that if you want a lawyer, you should ask for a lawyer!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo choo! Oh, yay Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, for joining us all aboard the murder train, leaving the station right now, pulling away, on schedule as usual. Yeah. 100% on-time departure. Here we go. We got a lot to... What a crazy case we have this week, of course. Like it's ever not crazy.

We're only given an hour on this particular show. So it's going to be nuts. Yeah. So let's do this. Before we get to it real quick, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Get tickets right now for the virtual live show. Let's go. Let's go. October 27 27th it's available for a week after that it's our halloween spectacular we're gonna do it it's just like a regular live show if you're somewhere where you can't get to a live show or you missed the live

show or couldn't get tickets or whatever it is this is your chance we set it up the same way with the screen just like we're in a theater only difference is you're not in a theater. You're in your house or wherever you want to be. I don't care. Wherever there's Wi-Fi, you can do it. So do it. You can watch it for as many times as you want. It's available for a week after that, seven days. So you can buy it, watch it, do whatever you want.

Shutupandgivememurder.com is where you find those right now. And head over to Patreon. Patreon.com slash crimeinsports is where you get the bonus material. Hell yeah. So many bonus episodes. For $5 or above, you get the whole back catalog, over 100 episodes. And you get two new episodes every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder.

You get access to it all. This week, you're going to get, for Crime in Sports, we're going to talk about the Danbury Trashers, which were a minor league hockey team. But. We're going to talk about the Danbury Trashers, which were a minor league hockey team. But we're not going to talk about hockey. We're going to talk about the fact that they were owned by a mafioso who bought it for his 17-year-old son and let this kid ride. It's crazy. Hockey barely matters. All sorts of federal crime involved.

It's a lot. Garbage trucks on fire. It's the Sopranos meets hockey. It's interesting. Check that out and then for small town murder we are going to talk about the the whole payment lee adnan syed cereal the whole thing and i have spent countless hours on this i've read and heard every bit of information there is to hear so we have our own opinions we'll talk about who we think is responsible for this

and uh all that we'll get into the whole thing on that and it'll be fun do we think is responsible for this and uh all that we'll get into the whole thing on that and it'll be fun do that that is patreon.com slash crime and sports and at the end of the regular show you'll get a shout out yes jimmy will mispronounce your name while trying his utter best to get it correct so that said i think it's time jimmy let's do this let's sit back what do you say everybody there, wherever you are in hopefully a not too public of a place, sit back, clear the lungs, and let's shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right.

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We shall. All right. We are going all the way to Ohio this week. Oh, Jesus. Headed to the Midwest. Let's do this. And this is western Ohio. It's like northwest Ohio. It's closer to Fort Wayne than it is to Columbus or Cincinnati. Put it that way. It's about an hour 45 to Columbus, about a little over two hours to Cincinnati.

It's kind of in the middle of nowhere out there. It sounds like it. Western Ohio, there's not a whole lot going on out there. Yeah, apart from the three cities they've got, it is fucking bleak. When you drive through it, you go, wow, there's nothing here except for Grandpa Whatever's Cheese Place. Cheese Barn. Cheese Emporium. Was it Grandpa Gus's Cheese Emporium or some shit?

Wasn't it the Cheese Barn? I don't remember, but the bathroom. I'll never forget walking with emily to the bathroom and uh the the smell coming out of there you would not believe somehow it was worse than inside the building it really was it's like people ate a bunch of cheese and then bad things happened so uh quickly the uh motto of this town where nature meets history. Oh, does it? Oh, yeah. Apparently it does here.

Population's about 12,105 people in this area here. Yeah. And it looks like people make decent money and it's cheap to live here also. So, yeah, if you don't mind living in the middle of nowhere, not bad. It is median household income here, $69,942. So about $70,000. Median home cost, $146,500. Fantastic.

Which is like half the national average. It's not bad here. Shawnee, this area, originally was located in Salt Lick Township. Yeesh. Oh, yeah. Wasn't settled officially until 1854 because it's in the middle of nowhere. It was super remote. This place wasn't platted until 1872 when an investor chose a farm.

He chose to buy some guy's farm and said, I'm going to make a town here and did it. I don't want to go anywhere. I'll bring it all to me. That's it. It was kind of a farming place, all sorts. And then they got into mining here. There was all sorts of mines. But by the 1930s, everything was dried up. And I'll read from a from a website here, quote, leaving the hillside scarred with thousands of mine openings and piles of useless coal. No one wanted the land, so the federal government began purchasing it and designating it as part of the Wayne National Forest, Ohio's only national forest. Is that right? Yeah, they were like, this is garbage land. Nobody wants.

We'll just take it, so someone will take care of it. Otherwise, it's just going to be like this forever. It's just useless coal. Just nobody wanted it. Yeah, it wasn't going well here. Apparently, the last of the coal mines and brick factories closed their doors for good by 1972 and it became, you know, less of an industrial area there. So here's some reviews of the town quickly. Here's five stars.

Perfect. Apparently somebody loves it. Shawnee is a great place to raise a family. The schools are excellent and is overall a safe place due to their own dedicated full time police and fire department well yeah it's a town it should have a that's good we have a fire department well then look at you look at you boston gee all high and mighty wow look at that hoity toity um there is not a ton to do but it's within driving distance to the larger cities do you

consider two hours driving distance that's a long ride yeah that's not you're not going to columbus for dinner or two hours and something away that's not a four hour round trip for wow for a steak i don't think so uh here's four stars it's really boring here but ohio is really boring in general that's a good way to start. Right away you have credibility with me. You're telling the truth. It has good schools and good neighborhoods, though. People are fairly pleasant.

Fairly pleasant. Okay. Now here's three stars. Not many people are friendly or outgoing. Well, now who do I believe? Contradict everything? The last person established credibility with the boring thing, though. So, you know what?

I think I'm going to buy that. Here we go. Three stars. I don't hear much about crime in Shawnee Township. Well, that's hard to say when you can't say it. Three stars. Again, after I graduate from college, I will not return. I'm only here for this shit.

There you go. And finally, three stars. No one stars. Nobody hates it. Not much to do around here. However, the people who live in this area are very warm, welcoming people. Okay. So it's friendly.

There you go. Things to do. Not much. I'll be honest with you. Yeah, I'm sure it's bleak. There is the blue blaze festival what is that which is a trail run hike slash backpacking

experience what the fuck's with the blue and the blaze I don't know what that is I don't have no idea you meet it like you meet like early in the morning and there's a 10 mile hike starting at 8 a.m. which sounds awful on all regards 8 a.m. 10 miles 10 miles sleep in for this how's a 10-mile hike starting at 8 a.m., which sounds awful on all regards.

8 a.m.? 10 miles? God damn it, guys. We can't sleep in for this? How about a 10K? Why don't we cut that down a bit? When is this? What time of year?

October. This is happening right now, by the way. This is this weekend. They're doing it. If you're listening early, if you're listening when it comes out normally, it happened last weekend. So there's food and beverages provided. It says runners and hikers prioritized. Well let's not have them drop dead probably be good uh coffee provided by dirty girl coffee yeah which sounds fun their bikinis are topless something's going on they're running still hiking and jogging with a big backpack on

shit running down their leg from 12 30 to 115 there's music it's 45 minutes set which is short for a band and it is live live music from local talent elliot boley so get there early for that he's gonna play 45 minutes ellie's doing a quick 45 and he's out of there that's all there is to it elliot that said he's done so there's that and then finally you got to go to the 25th annual shawnee homecoming which is some party and they have music there and the people that they're showing they have the pictures of the people here you got to roll your chair over fuck it it's check it out i'll turn the look at this thing two of them these are adults two of them are actually like have guitars in their hand in the picture the other one this is just their pictures like

from facebook or something it's her picture that's her profile picture there he is clint porter with his profile picture uh hayley keffer with her profile picture and then ray bond who actually has got like a cowboy outfit on and looks like he's on a real stage and then jack middleton who looks like an old man who they let they just let him perform so you know it keeps him quiet for a while he won't ask for a guitar lesson teacher in town yeah they're like he it's fine he sounds he knows how to do like if you ask him to play sweet emotion he'll do it you know what i mean even though it's mostly country, he can still. Mostly, yeah. If it's not that it's smoke on the water. He'll do that.

Either way, I think that said, let's talk about a murder. Oh, let's go. All right. Let's talk about a couple of brothers again. It's funny. We've had a lot of brothers come up lately. Tons of them. Tons of brothers.

This right here, let's talk about, these are older guys here. James Richard Beam, or Ream, R-E-A-M, I'm sorry. James Richard Ream, he's 55, goes by Rick. James is also his dad's name. He's not a junior, but his first name is with his dad, so doesn't want to be his dad, apparently. You also can't be Dick Ream. That sounds horrible. I was just going say dick ream

is a terrible name also you don't want that so what do you do exactly yeah jimmy ream dick ream you're like who do i do here you're like rick ream that sounds pretty cool that sounds like a musician almost fast enough it sounds like rick cream it's yeah plus rick ream sounds like they could play at the shawnee homecoming like that's it's a pretty cool bad name rick ream it's yeah plus rick ream sounds like they could play at the shawnee homecoming like that's it's a pretty cool bad name rick ream is going to be here from 12 30 to 145 or 115 and then he and his brother live together in a house just the two of them his brother is ronald ream ronnie reams ronnie reams and rick reams oh it's singular ream but right okay it feels like you want to throw the s on there doesn't it really do it does ricky reams how's it going ricky reams sounds like some sort

of like a dj ricky reams dj ricky reams wasn't there an athlete named reams yes there was probably sid reams that's sid bream i think you're thinking oh that's where I'm thinking of. It's brain. God damn it. That slow bastard. I'm so bad at names. So Ronald Ream, he's 62 years old. They're brothers. They were born in Alabama. That's where they're from. Parents are James and Earlene. So there you go.

It does sound like a couple of old school names. Earlene sounds like a Bama name, yeah. Earlene. That's right. Erlene sounds like a Bama name, yeah. Erlene, that's right, Erlene. Now, they've been living together at a house at 1240 Fairgreen Avenue in Shawnee Township, which technically is Lima, I guess, because Lima kind of incorporates, picture a big square, all of that is Lima,

and then part of that is Shawnee Township kind of within Lima, so it's got its own separate deals. Now, a little bit about Ron Ream. He's the older of the two. He's the 62-year-old. He owns this house. This is his house at 1240. Freeloading-ass Ronald.

No, Ron's the one who owns it. Oh, Rick is the freeloader. Rick is the one who's – we'll get into Rick. But Ron graduated in 1967 from Lima, uh, Lima senior high school. So apparently went to high school, at least in this area, he received a post-secondary degree from Apollo vocational Academy. Um, I don't know, but in 67, you had to do some sort of secondary education to not go

to Vietnam. So there you go. I don't know. Whatever it costs, I'm in. That's what I mean. I'll go learn how to do anything. What is it? Refrigerator repair?

Great. Sounds good. It's better than jungle fucking dwelling. I'd rather do that. And Apollo College is like a joke, right? Like ITT Tech? Now, I don't know if this is the same place or not. I don't know if that's the same school. Is it don't know if that's the same vocational is that what it is apollo vocational academy but yeah this is 1968 yeah

that's sounds like a way to not get shot right like i'll go here sure what's the what's the cheapest place i can go to and not be killed in vietnam is that possible how can i do that apollo vocational grad i'm. I'd still like to have sex with all the college girls back here. A lot of their boyfriends went to Vietnam. Let's just say the ratio's looking good right now. I'd like to stick around.

If they're not single, the chances of them becoming single are very good. That's what I mean. If you're going to be crass about it, yeah. Why not? That's how I think. Maybe that's how Ronnie's thinking. I don't know.

Who knows? Either way, he worked at the Excello, E-X-C-E-L-L-O, Excello Airfoil Textron. The fuck is that? That's the company he worked for, Excello Airfoil Textron. The fuck is that? That's the company he worked for. Excello Airfoil Textron. Which sounds like a mad lib for name a company that's got like, you know, stuff and smokestacks and things and they make stuff. Airfoil. Excello Airfoil Textron. That sounds so made up.

Sounds like something you wrap an airplane in. Maybe that's what it is. Did you wrap it in the airfoil? No, Jesus Christ, it's going to fucking splatter everywhere in the microwave if you don't wrap it in the airfoil. What the hell? It's some space age leftovers wrapped in airfoil. That's what it is. Maybe that's all it is.

It's for the shit you take out of the air fryer. That's what you put it in so that it stays air fryer crisp. Maybe they just make the nonstick stuff, which is magic. Nonstick tinfoil is magic. It's amazing. How does that work? When you can just, the pizza rolls just slide around in there. You're like, I'm going to die from that.

There's cheese on this. It's burned cheese and it's still not sticking to it. How does that work too? I don't know what chemicals they're using but god damn it i praise whatever they are the cheese falls off this is nuts that's fine i'll lose sight in one of my eyes when i'm 63 over it i don't give a shit whatever they're using it's worth it it sticks to my non-stick pan how the fuck does this work this is amazing this is unbelievable i love it so he worked for airfoil Textron for more than 18 years, and he was in the United Auto Workers Union.

So how does Airfoil have to do with auto workers? There's got to be. I thought this was planes, man. I'm real confused. It's got to be a part they're making for cars, right? It has to be. It has to be something. I don't know, man.

something i don't know man he um he also uh it was a international road service technician from the uh minster machine company as well so he was also that and uh he since i guess he started working at that place and there's been i don't know if he's retired or what but it seems like uh he bought this house in about 1986 and since then he hasn't worked for this company much as we'll talk about here he bought the house that we discussed before um he's got a couple of arrests in his past here ronnie um a couple of things here he's got a couple of domestic violence arrests yeah i mean you work on a you work on car parts long enough you're bound to get a little frustrated and bring that shit home you're bound to get a little frustrated and bring that shit home. You're bound to backhand somebody, I guess, but that's not good.

No. So that right away is a red flag here. He's got one, one was dismissed in the second case. He actually went all the way to trial and was found not guilty at trial. So who knows? We don't know. This was in like 1978, so we have no idea of what happened here. Ex-wife or is he beating the shit out of Ricky?

No, no, no. This is a partner here, a spouse, a wife or girlfriend or something. He was also arrested on an assault charge at one point for somebody else out there. Ronnie's willing to throw hands no matter what. Ronnie will throw hands, it seems like. He is going to show you his Textron at any point that you ask for it i will wrap you in airfoil motherfucker let's go i'll airfoil the fuck out of you so that case was also dismissed though so he's got he's skirted a bunch of legal shit luckily for him teflon yeah so he these all happened like pre year 2000.

All of these arrests, though. OK, so as they get a little bit older, Ronnie seems to have calmed down. He doesn't get arrested. Fifty. Which as you do your desire to throw down wanes as you get older. You know what I mean? You're much less likely to be like you start thinking about if I fall down, I'm going to hurt something. How hard can he hit? How strong are my bones? Yeah, you don't think about all that stuff. And you start thinking about, oh, Jesus, can I afford this? Can I afford jail if I win?

How long are these bruises going to take to heal? Best case scenario, I win gonna now i need a lawyer great like this is that's the you get older you start thinking about things pragmatically like that and you're like well that's not worth it never mind you walk away retainer fee alone is not worth who the fuck is right over who spilled whose beer yeah who cares you know what i mean it's it doesn't matter it'll dry on my boot who gives a fuck yeah it's fucking the old chris rock thing about don't you're gonna go to prison because someone stepped on your puma stupid when you get older you don't care anymore yeah so now they live together let's we'll cut

forward to october 17th 2011 and this is when you know r Rick is 55, Ron 62. They live together in this house. This is all going on here. Ron recently retired, I guess, a couple of years earlier, completely retired. And before his retirement, he had a bunch of health problems, which kind of prompted his retirement. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Oh, no. And had to have surgery to remove the cancer. And it worked. And had to have surgery to remove the cancer. And it worked. And so he wasn't. Great.

Yeah, he was cancer-free at this point. Found it early. Yeah, they got it, apparently. So I guess he had the surgery, and he recovered pretty well from it to the point where, like, the next-door neighbor. By the way, the next-door neighbor's name is amazing. He's like a, like, if there was, like, an underground hardcore porn scene in, like like the early 60s, this guy would be the king of it with this name. Yeah. Rex Whetstone. Stop. I swear to God. Rex Whetstone.

That's the man's name. What? Like sharpening or W.E.T. W.H.E.T. Stone. Yeah. Rex Whetstone. That's a fucking man. Holy crap. He walks down the street and panties just hit him in the head. He doesn't even know why.

He's like, where'd that come from? Like, what is happening? Yeah. Ooh, Rexy Whetstone. That's awesome. That is awesome shit. Now, Rexy Whetstone here would go golfing with Ron all the time. They were golf partners here for a bunch.

with ron all the time they were they were golf partners here um for a bunch so now uh apparently it's been about uh a few years now since uh rick has moved in with ron okay live there he's been there a little while um i guess part of it was health problems at first so ron rick said he'd come help out with you know taking care of the house and stuff and i'll post on social media picture of the house it's got a big lawn and stuff like that so you'd need somebody to tend to the outdoor you can't sit down when you've got prostate cancer you can't be sitting like that for long periods of time on a big vibrating yeah that's not gonna be good for you might as well get a motorcycle that's all the stitches you know get a chopper why don't you yeah yeah real low to the ground noper yeah yeah real low to the ground no suspension oh yeah real low to the ground feel every pebble one of those like my dad's fucking

yeah night train one of those you're like every fucking pebble yeah it looks like you're gonna have a sore asshole so now um apparently i guess um their relationship is it's OK. The brothers. I mean, they're both old cantankerous guys. Imagine you can't have two guys that are 55 and 62 living together. They're just and they've known each other their whole fucking lives. Yeah. Well, think about the Golden Girls. Like you can get older women together and they'll they'll figure out a way to make a society out of it.

And everybody will be fine. And Rose will be talking to Blanche and everything's fine old men together there's not a lot of sitcoms of those because the only thing we have is grumpy old men and they fight each other that's what we that's what happens and they didn't even live in the same house didn't they were neighbors and they were still fishing each other that's what i'm saying so you know what i mean that's what happens with old men get very set in their ways and grumpy, and it's very weird. And then they hold a fucking grudge. Oh, forever.

Forever. Yeah, he's still mad at Johnson for Vietnam escalation, I think. Either way, I guess he'd go golfing once or twice a week. I guess while Rick was living there, Rick would mow the yard occasionally and do some landscaping occasionally. You know, he would do some chores, but he really didn't do all that much. Rex Whetstone says that Rick didn't really contribute

to the household that much and didn't contribute to expenses at all and rarely was able to keep a job so he was rick was always in and out of work and uh couldn't keep a job couldn't keep money i guess ron had two cars and he let rick drive one of them like he just let rick have one of them basically since they both live there and i guess he would basically he would financially support his brother which off man yeah i mean he didn't have anything most most of what rick spent money on was lottery tickets he loved you dick he loves the scratchers boy he's a scratching fool you don't get scratchies with somebody else's money

you don't do that that's how you're gonna get back on your feet jimmy see you're not you're not seeing it you're not seeing the whole picture i am back he's got to get back on his feet how's he gonna do that more scratchies see that's how it works it's how you get it's all gonna come around i'm gonna win that jackpot so um now uh rex did say though whetstone did say that in the six years of knowing the two brothers, they never had a physical confrontation or any kind of large scale. There's never screaming at each other or anything like that. It was just kind of fucking brothers, a lazy bastard type of shit. That's all. So I guess Ron had some pain.

And after a surgery for prostate cancer, he he had some things where he couldn't do around the house and uh all of that and so that's when that's when rick tried to you know started doing lawn work and shit like that tried to step up um but they did have a troubled relationship according to ron's daughter uh mainly because ron was financially supporting rick and didn't like that he spent all the money on scratcher tickets and thought that was stupid fuck man that he would literally every night go to the bp station the gas station and buy a shitload of scratchers and that was like his oh yeah throwing money down the toilet oh i get it i ron murdered rick for this bullshit because he didn't get three fucking santa claus mittens in winter

i'd murder him too it's my fucking money you don't have any scratchers are fine if you have a few extra but no they're not but if you have a few extra bucks and you're like i don't know i'm bored i could throw this in the garbage and not really care right maybe i'll scratch a thing for a while some of the bigger ones we gotta got to scratch a whole bunch. And it's like, whatever, fine. But if that is your plan as an income, that's not good. I'm going to learn the whole secret of the scratchies. And then I'm going to be living large and do TED Talks.

Yeah, but the dollar ones, you only win like five grand. If you pay $50, you can win up to a million dollars right you're not gonna win especially you you dipshit not you rick knock it off that's the thing here so that's your prediction you think ron's gonna murder rick over a stupid scratch i would i would i think that would make the most sense. Well, let's see what happens. I would certainly understand. The week of October 11th here during this week, I guess Ron had given Rick a $500 loan. Also loans in $500. All right. Which is, you know, that's a lot of money for.

Fuck yeah. He's going to spend on scratchers. What do you need it for you live here what do you need you need 500 for so now ron's daughter also says that rick didn't really do a whole lot of the landscaping and it was mainly her and her brother who would come over and do most of that shit and help out their dad and stuff like that so you know he did some chores but it wasn't all the time basically um rex also said that ron here ron he doesn't do scratchers but one thing he likes on a daily basis is his weed and his beer so ron's a party man ron likes to golf and drink fucking beer and i could picture him out on like the eighth fucking fairway, just smoking a joint in the golf cart as he cruises along. That he rolled in the car.

Yeah, you know it. Absolutely. He's like, I don't give a fuck. I had cancer. Fuck you. I don't give a shit. I hope he did. I hope he rolled it right there on the fucking course.

So do I, man. I'm telling you. So either way, that's a fact, though. Ron definitely likes his beer and his weed, and on a daily basis, he's doing that. So during all of this, October the 17th, we'll cut to here, 9.20 p.m. on October the 17th, Ashley Magrum, she is the next-door neighbor, Ashley. I guess she lives on the other side. I think old sexy Rex, he lives on the other side. You live between Rex and Magrum? That's right. So I guess around 9.20, she was outside her house smoking a cigarette. And she heard loud multiple bangs. Big, loud bangs.

And she said that they weren't in sequence. They were kind of in groups. Like a couple here and a couple there. Oh, Jesus. She said she heard at least five bangs. She wasn't sure of the exact amount of number. Whenever anybody hears bangs, they never know exactly how many there is for some reason. Our brains can't count sounds.

No. It just doesn't work. We have to see things to count them. Right. I think it may be because we're not in the mindset to be counting. You know what I mean? You don't hear one and go, all right, time to start counting. we're not in the in the mindset to be counted you know what i mean you don't hear one and go all right time to start counting well that's the thing if someone said how many bangs do you hear and go and you go oh okay it was fucking five but if you're just sitting there smoking a cigarette and you're like bang bang what was that in the woods no that's next

door what is that how many did i fucking hear you don't even know yeah you're right good call so one or three she hears all of this. She thought that somebody was working on their house around there, and that's all it was. It was like a nail gun or a hammer or some shit like that. She's like, someone must be working on the house. It's only 920. Someone's doing something. So she said it all happened very quickly.

She heard the first sound. From the first sound to the last sound the interval was about two minutes all together in between okay so this was not all grouped together you heard she heard a couple then heard like one you know a couple more a minute later and then heard another one after that so a little while later yeah that's why she didn't think it was anything but like someone working on the house that's what it would seem like if you hear like bang bang bang bang bang bang you'd be like holy shit someone lighten somebody up. So she said that about 60 to 90 seconds elapsed from hearing the first group of shots to the second group of shots.

OK. And then she said she doesn't know, didn't know whether they were gunshots or like I said, hammer doesn't have any idea. Yeah. Now, Rex Whetstone on the other side in between his he's exhausted from all these sessions of lovemaking with all these beautiful, beautiful ladies, obviously. But when he's not doing it, he's just filming. Yeah. He stepped out of his bedroom this night at about 10 p.m. just glistening with, you know, glistening with the afterglow. Does he? The afterglow. So he comes out.

He shows up at about 10 o'clock that night because he was having problems in his relationship. I assume because there was a line of 12 women outside his bedroom and his wife said, listen, Rex, this has to stop. I'm sorry. This is crazy. You can't be doing this. She took his pants off and it smelled like someone's already been here. Multiple people. Rex. Jesus.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead

and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So Rex shows up at Ron's house at about 10 p.m. because he wants to crash there that night to let things cool off at home. Crazy over there.

Yeah, port in the storm is Ron's house apparently. Whether it's your scratchy addiction or your wife's a pain in the ass, either way, here you go. So he noticed that all the lights were off and the only light coming from the house was the TV. So he saw the TV and he also saw that Ron's car was the only one in the driveway. The one that Rick usually drives wasn't there. So he's like, no, that's weird. Everybody's usually home at 10 o'clock, but that's fine.

As he approached the door, he ron lying on the floor with a blanket on top of him which you know the tv's on he's laying down whatever um sometimes you want to harken back to a cuddle puddle when you were a kid that's the thing sometimes on the floor and on the floor is great sometimes it really is oh man it's fun stuff well sometimes the floor is just the best place for you so either way he, he says, all right, that's nice. He knocks on the door. He's like, sorry, I've got to wake him up, but whatever. So he knocks on the door.

Ron doesn't wake up from the knock. But he said, that's not unusual because Ron's fucking almost deaf. He's hard of hearing as shit. Guy smokes weed and drinks beer all day. He's sleepy. That's the other thing. Sleepy and deaf is a hard person to wake up from a knock. You know what I mean?

There's a lot of touching and shaking involved. What the fuck? Jesus Christ. So he doesn't wake up. So he goes, okay, Christ. So he calls Ron's cell phone and no answer. He's like, okay, shit. So he calls Rick's cell phone to see, are you coming home soon?

Maybe you can let me in, whatever. And Rick doesn't answer either. So he's like, God damn it. I can't get a hold of people. He's like, okay, shit. So he calls Rick's cell phone to see, are you coming home soon? Maybe you can let me in, whatever. And Rick doesn't answer either. So he's like, God damn it. I can't get a hold of people. He's out. This one's asleep on the floor. I can see him, for Christ's sake. This has got to be irritating.

So he went around the back of the house hoping the back door was unlocked, and it wasn't. So he's like, God damn it. So he tries knocking louder, sitting there. You guys are going to make me go back to this bitch. Fuck. Well, he does about 10 30 he stays till about 10 30 so he sits outside the house with his fucking blanket and his bindle for about i just picture him with his blanket with a pillow sitting on top of it just

like for a half hour every once in a while knocking on the door can of viennese yep just here i am just as dinty more tucked into it all in his bindle roll so jelly in between them you know yeah it's so weird jesus what is this fucking petroleum jelly what's what is that shit i don't know what it is i assume just congealed fat that's i i guess maybe you're right i suppose lard maybe i don don't know. It looks gross, though. It's gross, yeah. So either way, about 10.30, he says, well, fuck it. I guess I'll leave. Like, I'm not going to sit on the porch any longer.

You know, it's getting chilly out. I'm going to go. So he leaves. Now, where the hell is Rick at this point? Well, enter Megan Mays. She's a BP gas station employee. Okay. And she says that Rick came in all the time to buy lottery tickets.

And she said that Rick came into the gas station this night. She said she left work about 10, 10 p.m. And he was coming into the station as she was leaving. So Rex must have just missed Rick at the house. Like must have just missed rick at the house like must have just missed him yeah pulling away so she said um you know it was weird because she he's in later than he usually is is what she said so um the next day comes along everybody rex goes home the next day comes along and about noon a deputy jerry kress of the allen County Sheriff's Department, our office, is hanging out doing something. He's putting some shit in his police car.

He's in a parking lot just moving some stuff from here to the trunk and getting ready to go out and do his thing. And here comes Rick Reen, walks up to him, and he says, are you on duty right now? He's not a taxi driver. He's in a uniform with a car. So he's probably. Picking up fares? Yeah. No, no, no.

Don't tell me about crimes. I'm off right now. So he says, are you on duty? And he said, yeah, I'm on duty. And he said, OK. He said, do you have jurisdiction in Shawnee Township? Oh, boy. And the guy said, sure.

Yeah. I got it. Yeah. I got to cover that. I got it. If I it um so i know who does i can call somebody really we're on this you come to the right place so rick says oh you do okay good arrest me please and so he says why i can't you know he goes just arrest me and he goes why and he goes i just want you to arrest me and he goes well it doesn't really work like that you

kind of have to i'm gonna need the charges can't really bring you in and be like, I've got this guy. What was he doing? He was asking to be arrested. Well, that's not enough to really hold him. You have to actually commit a crime. He said, well, I got myself, this is a quote, gotten myself into a situation that I can't get out of, and I shot my brother. Oh, boy. Yeah. So he said, the deputy said his demeanor was calm but upset, which is the strangest way I've ever heard of anything being described. Those don't go together. He was hairy but bald. You know what I mean? Yeah, but super hairy.

No, no, on his head was hairy but bald you know what i mean yeah but like but super hairy no no on his head hairy and bald so he said that he took he took him down to the police department where he met with a supervisor and was like all right we don't know if this guy's a crackpot or what i mean who the fuck knows people people say crazy shit all the time to the cops they don't know if it's true true or not or if this guy's took too much you know cold medication we have no idea like who knows he might be on it like coming too much you know cold medication we have no idea like who knows he might be on it like coming down from ambien or something we have no idea so he takes him there they speak with the uh shawnee township police department and they said rick was very cooperative throughout the booking you know whole like walking through the booking process and

everything of just like through the area he said that they kept a close eye on him the whole time he's in the police station because they were unsure of his mental health they didn't know is he a crazy person who didn't shoot anybody is he a crazy person who did shoot somebody and now might be a danger to himself or might attack one of us or something or is he so saying he murdered somebody and now it's fucking crazy inside his head yeah or is he just chill and now he wants doritos we have no idea like who knows here maybe get him some scratchies he'll calm down And now it's fucking crazy inside his head. Yeah. Or is he just chill and now he wants Doritos? We have no idea. Who knows? Who knows here?

Maybe get him some Scratchies. He'll calm down. So they give him, Rick says, go to 1240 Fairgreen and I give you permission. I live there. Go in there. You can go in. He said the keys are in the door. Oh.

So he said go over there. Whetstone missed those. No, no, no. He was back. He came back after are in the door. Oh. So he said go over there. Whetstone missed those. No, no, no. He was back. He came back after the scratchies and spent the night there, as we'll talk about here. He said there's a set of keys in the front lock. Go do that. So they told the Shawnee Township Police Department, and everybody was going to go do a well-being check on the brother.

I'm sure this guy's nuts. Let's just make sure. Oh, my God. on the brother just i'm sure this guy's nuts let's just make sure they they arrive there and um they find that in the living room they find nobody and then they go down to the bedroom where they find ron in there and uh yeah ron is ron's not looking good he's he's he's all shot up there's blood splatters all over the living room. And there's also smear patterns on the floor of a body being dragged. Just a bloody smear pattern from the living room to the bedroom.

So they find Ron face down with a multicolored blanket over him and a kitchen knife on top of the blanket. Okay, we'll get to that. Okay. knife on top of the blanket okay we'll get to that okay um so they found him with a cloth material tied around his wrist and then a rope tied around the cloth material around his wrist and with like a rope dangling off of it yeah all right so they're like okay okay. They collect five shell casings from inside the house. The coroner gets there. First thing they notice when they roll him over is he has a bullet hole in his chest. And underneath him is a remote control that has been dragged with him from the living room. That's what it is.

It was like under his body. Yeah, there's a remote. God, they can never find the remote. Under my dead brother. I never, shit, damn it. It's always under the corpse. Always under the corpse. Everybody check, make sure. I know in the couch cushions, under the corpse is important.

So, yeah, so they say there is seven gunshot wounds here, but they collect five casings, okay, but have seven wounds now. The first wound was to the left side of the neck of Ron here. There was a downward trajectory for this wound. So this is not even. Somebody's sitting down. Somebody's sitting down. Either way, someone's above somebody else. There's downward trajectory there.

So second gunshot was to the left side of Ron's chest. Third gunshot was to, quote, Ron's left flank. Would that be like a back area, kind of a quarter panel? Back, lower quarter panel. That's usually the flank, right, to your side. I guess. I don't work at airfoil Textron, so I don't know all the technical sides of shit. Yeah, I haven't been a butcher yet.

Not sure. The fourth gunshot wound was to Ron's upper right arm. The fourth gunshot wound was consistent with Ron being on the ground and the shooter standing above the body firing straight down into it. Into the body or the head? Into the body. That's the fourth because the fourth one is in the arm. So the first three were downward trajectory and that area. And then that seems like that's the first group of gunshots.

Yep. And the second group is when he's on the ground. And not dead. Yeah. And you want to put your brother out of his misery. Jesus Christ. Fifth gunshot wound was also to the left flank. So buried another one in him.

Again, standing over type of wound. Sixth gunshot entered Ron's back. And this gunshot was made while, while again the shooter was higher than the victim and then the seventh gunshot grazed his neck didn't enter him missed him grazed his neck there yeah so um they out of the seven they say only six were perforating wounds of the six perforating wounds four bullets went through and through we'll find out this is a 45 so jesus it's a fucking hand cannon man that's a lot of gun moves yeah that's a lot of gun man and that that makes sense too why the next door neighbor might have mistook them for some other kind of boom sure

because a 45 is a very deep it's not a boom it's a big register it doesn't sound like whenever it's like a small caliber 25 or something you'll always always hear that. I thought it was firecrackers. People always say that you never will hear that about a 45. No, that's true. It does not sound like a firecracker. It is nasty. It's a loud one. from the body and uh they said none of them were from a result of close range firing the shooter would have to be at a minimum a foot and a half to two feet away to make these wounds that's still pretty close but none of them are like contact wounds that's not a sharpshooter by any no no no this is not as fuck it's not a sniper that did this might have been someone across the street this is uh this is across the room this is certainly from close up, but no contact wounds here. Obviously, cause of death is multiple gunshot wounds. Kind of, duh.

Now, Ron, in his body, he only had, as far as mind-altering type of drugs, all he had was a therapeutic level of cold medicine. So, not even, you know, he didn't even take too much robitussin so poor guy yeah so now meanwhile all this is going on rick rick is at the station and they're ready to talk to rick here they got him in the holding area and while he's in the holding area here um they ask him someone asks him how he killed his brother. They're like, you really kill your brother? And he said, yeah. And he said, I shot him. And they said, well, why'd you do that? And he said that he, Rick says, I've had a good number of jobs and I've lost them because I've been taking care of Ron because he has cancer.

So he blamed his lifelong shoddy work schedule on his brother being sick the last couple of years. Right. When did he get cancer? You're how old? I mean, come on, man. Yeah, I was. I've been doing great to prep for this. I've been doing I would have been doing so well if it wasn't for this.

I finally was taking it in there. And then he's five years of fucking up for this. That's it. He said, quote, I just can't take it anymore. Couldn't take it. Had to shoot him. So Detective Baker reads him his rights. He signs his rights form at 12.52 p.m.

Agrees to talk to Detective Baker and has some weird conversations with him. He criticizes Ron the whole time. Just talks mad shit about him the whole time. Terrible guy Ron was. He calls him a lazy ex-con which we know his arrest record and he never was convicted of anything so i mean and he retired and and he's enjoying himself yeah he's retired and he plays golf and he had cancer you lazy cancer-ridden bastard he also called him dr jekyll and mr. Hyde and said he is, quote, gross.

So I do enjoy that description. Gross. Lazy ex-con Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. And did I mention he's gross? So he's a human being. Probably pretty gross. Super gross. He said that Ron has a violent temper and is always picking

fights with him as well he said that they had an argument that night and ron decided to kick rick out of the house that's what happened that night and so rick said fine i'm out of here i don't need this shit anyway it's a very teenage argument here because you're gross you're gross i'm leaving i'm taking the peanut butter and loaf of wonder bread i'm on my own that's it i can live in the woods for a week with this so he said he took his he let he got a pile of clothes and his gun case he had a gun in a case so he had a pile of clothes with a gun case sitting on top of him and that's all he was doing he said he was carrying those out of the house, leaving. He's done, right? Going to get in Ron's car and leave. So he says at this point, out of nowhere, Ron lunged at him with an eight-inch butcher knife.

Okay. Just came after him with a butcher knife, even though he was walking out the door, doing what he wanted. He told him to leave, problem solved, and now he's going to create more problems he said as ron is lunging at him with a butcher knife ron must be very slow or there's some slow motion matrix shit happening cancer james they they that's true he's lost a step so as he's quote lunging at him slowly with a butcher knife yeah he pulls this gun out of the case cocks it and shoots ron my god that's pretty impressive i gotta say that is quick on the draw the in the west he's wyatt earp over here yeah this is crazy man so yeah he said that's what happened he said that's what i did i shot him yeah he said that on

several occasions i feared for my life and this occasion I thought he was going to stab me. He said he doesn't remember all the details because he blanked out, though. So, you know, obviously can't remember much. As you do. As one has want to do when they're shooting their own brother. It's a really fast situation. It's hard to remember every little bit that happens. I mean, who can remember all the details of murdering your brother

i mean ask kane if he knows what you know he doesn't know it was so fast it's so fast it happens so he said that uh doesn't know a bunch so they said but you you cleaned up the floor because they found there's a fire pit thing and they found in the fire pit shell casings burned up shell casings and a burned up mop he thought that was gonna do it apparently so he he cleaned he mopped up shit in the house he tried to like clean up the house here for some reason i don't know why uh he tried to do that so like you tried to do that all this isn't adding up why wouldn't you just go oh my god he tried to shoot me. Call 911. Yeah.

Like, that doesn't make sense. Well, this is a good example of why you can't hold a job. He started the job and was like, I'm overwhelmed. I can't do it. This is hard. They don't pay me enough for this. He looked around and went, gross. And then he just left.

Also, you can't call your brother gross when you made him that way. Yeah, that's what I mean. Plus, he's got gross cancer. So, what an asshole. So, he said Ron started to make gurgling noises after he shot him. That's called a death rattle. You know. So, he said that's when he drug Ron over to the bedroom down there.

Because he just, you know. He said he couldn't drag him. So, that's why he tied a rope to him. So, he could drag him by the rope. I was going to ask. Oh, God. That's when he drug Ron over to the bedroom down there because he just, you know, he said he couldn't drag him. So that's why he tied a rope to him so he could drag him by the way. I was going to. Oh, God, that's horrific. Yeah. He drug him by a rope around his wrist while he was still alive. Didn't want to hurt him.

So we wrapped a fucking towel around it first. Yeah. Well, no, I guess he was trying to do it just with that. And then he was like, no, I need a rope. So he did that. Plus, he didn't want to make it look like ligatures either, like he tied them up or something. But he left the rope on him. Rick also said that he went to McDonald's around 5 or 6 a.m.

Got to get that. And nothing says Egg McMuffin like a dead brother. You know what I mean? You got to get the first ones. Around 8 a.m., they start to get real lazy with the breakfast. That's what it is. Yeah, because he should work there. He said he contacted his son and his daughter that morning to give away some of his stuff,

to say, you can have this stuff and this stuff. They're like, okay, whatever. They said, why didn't you call 911 immediately? And he said, well, I was in shock. I shot him, and he said, I assumed the neighbors would have called 911 with all those gunshots, so I just figured eventually someone will come. But that's not true because he shot him and then he went and bought scratcher tickets and then he came home

and he dragged him in another room then he hung out all night then he went to mcdonald's had a sausage egg mcmuffin and then he fucking started mopping and trying to burn evidence so none of this woke up around noon yeah and then went well let me go turn myself in here yeah um he says also that i suffer from mental problems and i've been admitted to psychiatric hospitals twice before as well so yeah you know thing he doesn't mention in this interrogation is going to the gas station getting scratcher tickets he leaves that part conveniently out probably lost yeah so two days later they're going to interview him again and they read him his rights and he says that um they say he there's an interesting exchange about the the council and whether he

would do that so he never directly asked for counsel but there's all sorts of weird things he says this is what baker says in the this is the first interview he says first thing i want to do um though you're not arrested at this moment, okay? Not technically in custody. I'm going to read you your rights. These items here, one through five, are Miranda rights, and I'm going to read them out loud for you. You can follow along with this paper. And they do all of that shit.

So now, as they're doing that, Reem agrees to that. He said, yeah, that's fine. I can talk about this. And Reem says, yeah, I'm just going to give you the basics because I can't even piece it all together. So he tells him about what we just talked about. About 26 minutes into the interview, he says this. Reem says, quote, I'll make you a deal. No, no.

You don't have a lot to bargain with here chief it's happened in your house with your your gun it's really not a lot to buy usually the ones that make the deals but go ahead we don't need this part really this is just this is just dunking on a team we're up by 20 on at this point like it's not we don't need this for a conviction technically this is running up the scoreboard and it's frowned upon, but go on. You know what? I'm going to kick the field goal. Fuck it.

Go ahead. Close to the record. Go. I will make you a deal. Give me some time to recount what happened. Get a public defender here with me so he can tell me what I'm allowed to tell you because it's your job to provide the prosecutor with information. And I can't give you information right now my mind's spinning right now so please i provided you with the basics right now let me rethink what actually happened right now i'm running a fever i got a fever and the only prescription is more scratcher tickets he's fucking what the fuck ah that's so good he said

right now i'm running a fever thank you for the cigarettes um some of this shit ain't right i flipped out on him i sat there for hours not realizing okay he said not realizing you shot your brother and he said yeah it didn't seem real. So unrealistic. The whole thing. Stop asking questions. He just mentioned lawyer. Let him go. Let's get the lawyer. Well, he has to say, I want a lawyer. He said, he said, give me some time.

What was exact words? Give me a public defender. That's a lawyer. Yeah, but he didn't say I'd like a lawyer. He said the where is the exact words are very. He said, get a public defender here with me so he can tell me what I'm allowed to tell you because it's your job. So he doesn't say, I want to stop talking. And that's the problem.

And it's not an exact, it's not a, he's saying, I'll get one to confer while we're down here, which happens all the time. They go, well, you can get a guy down here, but then the questioning is going to be over. And then he goes, oh, well, I want to talk. This feels muddy and gray. Well, yeah, that's the problem here so he said listen he came at me with a butcher knife it's and got an eight inch blade for christ's sake um then he again he tries to say his brother's an unstable guy who smokes weed all the time and spent time in prison he's got a temper he said i quote i saw him with that big ass knife then he he came out of the chair. Then pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. That's what he says. I started shooting. He said that he had a loaded handgun inside the box, which was covered by clothing. He said he just reacted and shot his brother. Must have been. I must be like a like a like a spy or like a trained assassin or something. I didn't even know it. like a like a spy or like a trained assassin or something i didn't even know it i'm fucking neo this is amazing i went into action i was like you know reggie jackson killing the queen

slowed down i did backflips and bounced off walls and shit your honor he activated me i had no choice he said that you know there was an argument he said he's walking out his brother sprung up from the chair you know what the fuck he said how i got a hold of the handle of the gun that quick and cocked it i don't know that's a real we don't either we also have yeah he said that he fired four or five times which it's very common for people to not know how many times they fired there is but that's a lot there's a ton of times like you'll ask a cop and it's not even like a bad shooting it's a shooting where everybody was shooting and they'll say how many how many rounds you let off and they'll go two and they emptied their gun it's like they don't even know they

have no idea so it's a very difficult thing once all it's like a car accident you don't remember exactly what happens so then his story changed and uh he said i shot my brother as he rose out of the chair with a knife before that he got out of the knife got out of the chair got the knife and lunged at him now he's got the knife in the chair already and he did that and he said that he took two steps with the knife and then his then he shot his brother after that then he said he couldn't remember what happened and he said i'm trying to piece together reality versus what is not so they're like okay that's fair let's start with something easy why'd you burn the mop you used to clean the

blood up with why'd you burn the fucking shell casings and all that he says you know what that looks like looks like you're trying to cover up a crime scene right and he said oh no god no absolutely not as a matter of fact quote i swept everything up and i'll be honest i was not trying to get rid of the evidence i know what it looks like but it wasn't bad he said that he listened to his brother gasping and making noises for several hours before he finally died oh my god several hours yeah um that is fucking disturbing the body and he's just he's just leaking man they don't you don't just disappear when you shoot somebody that's what it is well he he said i told him quote i said sorry bro i love you and i drug him in the other room and shot him more oh god then he he said, but you mopped up the blood,

so you were trying to hide it. And he said, no, I wasn't. Then he said, quote, if you guys show up, I didn't want you walking in there and dragging all that all over the house. He didn't want people tracking blood around the house. What? You're worried about the mopping situation?

Guess what? They don't generally generally they mop anywhere there's blood that's going to be like roped off probably they're not just tracking it around like it's dog shit it's crime scene blood listen james he's got a fever yeah well he wanted to get him give them a nice clean path to get there that's true he's not thinking clearly so in here my god whenever they would push him on inconsistencies he would quickly change the subject and all this type of shit he said he came at me with a knife that's the mitigating circumstance right there that's what he said whoa he's already in the sentencing phase of his fucking trial so um yeah he said that um wow he said let me ask you this question uh this is what he says

in the second interview baker this is the the uh the pro the detective i don't want to get into it without being legal it's for your protection oh he goes over the the rights form again with him he says okay he says um uh ream says i'm going to help you piece it all piece it together and what led up to all this that that's all I can do. And I know I'm in the clear. Oh yeah. You're in the clear. You're good.

Yeah, that's fine. So then he says, well, I can say things up to the incident, but I'm still trying to figure out how the incident started, to be honest with you. And he says, I'll go ahead and sign these papers for you. And we'll start, we'll start a couple weeks ago and I'll tell you what led up to this whole thing. He goes, but I'm not going to answer anything that I don, and I'll tell you what led up to this whole thing. He goes, but I'm not going to answer anything that I don't know what to tell you. So he goes, anything I don't remember, I'm not going to make it up for you.

But other than that, he says, you know what? I can't remember a lot of what happened, what actually took place right here, because my mind was going about 15 different directions before that happened, trying to remember what I couldn't take and what I needed to do before. And out of the blue, he got really mean. I mean, he was just almost like the devil came over him or something, you know? That's what I remember. He was kicking you out, man.

Yeah, and then he said, then they talk about, you know, are you going to, so you're waiving your rights? And he goes, I don't know. I don't trust me. Well, we don't either. I don't trust you either, dog. Yeah.

And he says, also, I just, I'm all blanked out. I don't know what I'm doing right now. And they went, okay, well, you know what? You don't really need to, we don't care if you're blanked out. Just try. And he says, he goes, look, I know you're a good guy, okay? This is what Reem tells him. This is Rick.

I know your position is here. I want to fill the gaps. I want to clarify that right here and now, but I can't remember exactly what happened other than him lunging. So, um, yeah, that's fucking funny. He, um, he says, the only reason I said that about legal counsel is because I think having a mediator here. Okay.

We'll help out a little bit. That's what I'm saying. So the cop says, I'm not pressuring you or anything. And he says, no, you're not. He says,

no, no, no, please don't put that on yourself. They're having like a polite off back and forth. And he says, I'm not trying to make you talk about anything you don't want to talk about. And he goes,

totally. I totally feel comfortable. You're not pressuring me at all. Like it's funny. So anyway, they get the shell casings and everything like that they find the gun it matches the ballistics everything all that works out fiber analysis they also have as well there's fiber shit there is uh i guess because their bullets went through and through so there's

pieces of fiber on the bullets that you can pull and match it to Ron's shirt and all that kind of thing. So they do that. At trial, I'm sorry, Rick tries to introduce a psychiatrist report here that says that he couldn't act in a rational manner, Rick, at all. He said his actions in the many hours after the alleged offense, including leaving to get gas, money, and breakfast,

doesn't mention scratchers in there, are inconsistent with an individual trying to elude capture and breakfast doesn't mention scratchers in there are inconsistent with an individual trying to elude capture and or punishment his mindset was that of an individual who was overwhelmed by the event and griffin uh stricken with grief shame and fear his actions on the following morning including giving possessions to family members as approach and approaching police are again consistent with a person who feels he is facing punishment for the situation. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot of obvious shit you're saying right now. Tell me why that means he's not responsible again here. And he says in delving into his background, he suffered from mental illness for much of his adult life. He's been hospitalized on two occasions for suicidal ideation and depression and battled substance abuse. occasions for suicidal ideation and depression and battled substance abuse. He also has a history of poor judgment and decision making, such as living at a homeless shelter despite having the means to support himself. Whoa, that's wild. That's fucking wild.

This guy is weird, man. Between that and the scratchers, he's a strange guy. He just can't get out of his own way. His brother, his relationship with his brother was both close and tortured, wherein he idolized his brother, but was also bullied by him. Six, seven years of age difference. That is why he reacted in such an illogical manner after the alleged offense. He simply could not believe his actions, the outcome or the fact that he was no longer able to be with his brother. Rather than fleeing, he was unable to see any other action or any other action other than to deal with the

realities as they presented themselves the doctor says he's suffering from a condition known as acute stress disorder what so if you kill someone you can go i'm super stressed out by this whole procedure and they go well we should let you go because you're stressed this stressed you out asd oh yeah it's got letters. It's got to be real. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. But also, you killed somebody, so that really doesn't fucking matter at this point. So either way, that doesn't do very much. Now, they don't want a picture.

The Ricks team doesn't want a picture brought into the trial saying that the picture is, quote, very bloody and is not needed. I'm sure it's ugly. During the trial, a juror is actually replaced one day while the pictures are being shown. She was sent home after fainting during the testimony from the medical examiner while they were showing graphic pictures of the autopsy. I bet. She actually went out in her chair and thump, thump on the ground, and they had to fucking pull her out and go you're number 11 or fucking 14

get in here so anyway at the trial their only defense is he had acute stress disorder ASD you guys so he is ASV at this point acute stress guilt verdict at this point and he's guilty as fuck

ASG acute stress guiltiness so gaf gaf the during the sentencing judge says you got anything to say for yourself and he says rather than i feel terrible because i shot my brother and i love my brother and i don't know what happened and blah blah blah which might have been good for him he says instead I'm innocent and I plan to appeal this decision. Well, we'll get to that later. And the judge says, you, sir, may fuck off 15 years to life in prison for murder and two three year prison sentences for firearm specifications, all to run consecutively. Well, those two are together. And then it's with the 15 years so 18 to life is what he got is that good is that

i mean at 56 years old yeah you know but i mean i don't know he's not going to hurt anybody else i don't think i don't know this is one of those he lives with it's possible yeah i don't know. This is one of those. Anybody he lives with, it's possible. I don't know. Yeah. I think the biggest punishment is 18 years, no scratchy tickets. No scratchies. He's going to be like, can you send scratchies is his main fucking thing. He appeals on such a huge amount of shit that at one point I was reading his appeal and they said that most of his grounds are incomprehensible they don't even you can't even like make sense of what he's talking about and they don't even apply to this i don't know if he did it himself or what or they're they're really like things that you can't

he has 15 grounds of appeal 16 i have all 16 here i'm not going to read them because it's just ridiculous though um he said though he they one of them is accusing the prosecution of misconduct, of unsubstantiated use of false bad character reference. Somebody said that he was not a great guy. So how dare you bring him up there? So either way, he appeals and appeals. He appeals once, gets rejected, then appeals with 16 grounds. It's a big, giant thing. But his main appeal is the whole, I asked for a lawyer and they didn't give me a lawyer thing.

Okay, yeah. It's murky, but he didn't say lawyer. He didn't say, I want a lawyer right now. It's more, should I have a lawyer, that sort of thing. And the fact that he just keeps admitting to shooting his brother, man. Right. I mean, he won't stop telling everybody about it, you know you know like he told the guy without even being asked about it so you want to appeal this because there wasn't one more person in the room when you were saying i killed my brother exactly

i needed one more the audience wasn't big enough the videotape doesn't quite give me what I'm looking for here. But either way, all the appeals are denied, and he is still in prison. And now in his, what, early, that's 10 years ago, so he's mid-60s, 65, and probably looking, I don't know, he's probably up for parole pretty soon, I would think. Holy shit. I'm not sure. But either way, there it is. That is Shawnee Township, Ohio, and crazy house crazy little house that went on and I wanted to have an episode where we didn't have any dead kids or anybody raped so

we got it good here with a couple of crazy brothers I thought that would be fun if you like the episode tell the world get on whatever app you're listening to give us five stars for some reason it helps drive us up the chart so do that thing yeah takes two seconds say something nice not for our egos we promise do that also head over to shut up and give me murder dot com where you can get everything

small town murder and crime and sports. All the merchandise. Get your tickets to the October 27th virtual live show from our studio to your house. But it's going to be just like a real live show. The screen, the desk. It'll be Halloween themed available for seven days after that. Hang out with us it's going to be a lot of fun do that follow us on social media also we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram patreon.com slash crime in sports bonus stuff a cup of coffee five dollars or, gets you 100-something back episodes to binge of bonus stuff. And every other week, you're going to get two new episodes.

This week, you're going to get, for crime and sports, Danbury Trashers, which you'll have access to, by the way. You'll have access to all of it, which is a mafioso-owned hockey team. Bought it for a 17-year-old son. It's hilarious. And then for small-town town murder we're going to talk about hayman lee and adnan sayad and cereal and we're going to talk about who we think might have done this horrible deed based on all the goddamn research we've done on this thing so check all that out patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that that's about

it though thank you so much for hanging out with us. Anybody you want to follow us on social media, shutupandgivememurder.com. There's links to everything right there. Come out, find us, hang out with us, listen to the regular show

every Thursday, listen to Crime and Sports every Tuesday. Thank you so much, everybody. Hold on to the station! Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye! Bye. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and

Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.