Small Town Murder - #326 - Pictures Of Fear - Donalsonville, Georgia

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

This week, in Donalsonville, Georgia, a strange group of dangerous people escape from a work camp, and end up on a rural farm, looking for gas & money to head to Mexico, in order to "live the good life". Instead, they come upon a large, hardworking, church going, teetotaling farm family, and what happens is as cold blooded, systematic, and heartless a slaughter, as this area has ever seen. Complete with disturbing photos taken with the victim's own camera. And that's only where it begins, as the ring leader proves to be a truly evil person, complete with crazy, unremorseful quotes, including claiming many more murders... It's as crazy as it gets!!Along the way, we find out that hard work can sometimes get you even more hard work, that a judge & prosecutor probably shouldn't be related, and that some people actually compete to be the most evil!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Donaldsonville, Georgia, a group of bloodthirsty people caused the most brutal, extreme, and heartless slaughter that has ever occurred, leaving a trail of bodies and some of the most disturbing pictures ever in their wake.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of small town murder it's been insane lately if you listen to the regular and express from last week wow i mean that was just insane and today i don't know how but we're stepping it up even it's crazier it's wild uh

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It's a lot of fun. Quickly, the disclaimer. This is a comedy show. It is. We're comedians. The story, unfortunately, they're all real. They're as real as it gets. There's no details that aren't real.

Nothing's embellished for comedic effect or any silliness like that. These are real stories. We know that it's weird to make jokes at murder. So what we do is, first of all, we don't make jokes about actual wall of murders taking place. That's nothing really funny about that. The knife plunged through her heart. Oh, that's hilarious. That's not hilarious.

There's a lot of other funny stuff that goes on around a murder. Starting out with someone going, I think I can get away with this. This is going to be a good idea. That's hilarious because it's stupid. So what we don't do, we go out of our way not to do, is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James?

Because we're assholes. What? But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever go together

for any reason, then maybe we're not for you. This is the warning. Either way, no bitching afterwards. There it is. We warned you. Here we go. other for any reason then maybe maybe we're not for you that's this is the warning either way no bitching afterwards there we warned you here we go that said i think it's time to sit back clear the lungs and wherever you are out there and you're hopefully not too public of a place maybe your living room i don't know something like that let's all sit back and shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy.

Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, we shall. Oh, baby. Our last regular episode was in Massachusetts. We're going all the way down south today, way down south, to Donaldson, Georgia, or Donaldsonville, Georgia. I want to leave off that ville for some reason.

Donald? Donaldson. Not Donald. Donald. Yeah. Yeah that ville for some reason. Donald? Donaldson. Not Donald. Donald. Yeah. No D. E-L? A-L.

Just like Donaldson, but no D in the middle there. What the fuck? Donaldsonville. Donaldsonville, Georgia. Southwest Georgia, all the way down there. It's like five hours to Savannah. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's closer to the cities in Florida, and the Panhandle is basically what it is.

About an hour 15 to Tallahassee. Yikes. For some reason you want to go there. About three and a half hours to Clarkston, Georgia, which was episode 239, our last full-length Georgiaia episode which was the bathtub strangler oh and then we also had margie in the front yard who shot her husband and then wanted a beer afterwards that was awesome for the last express there this is in seminole county uh area code 229 the motto of this town the gateway to lake seminole oh okay sounds awesome sure also kind of sounds gross not that lake seminal is here you pass through here to get to something else is what they're right the gateway

to it means it's not here but if you're going there maybe come through here stop and get a sandwich or some shit history seminal like the like the tribe, right? Like the tribe, yeah, exactly. Not like the fluid. Not like, it's not seminal, yeah, no. Definitely not. I think you knew that one, but yeah. History of this town, named after John Ernest Donaldson, who was known as John E. Donaldson, who was a prominent businessman.

He built the first lumber mill here, the Donaldson Lumber Company, prominent businessman. He built the first lumber mill here, the Donaldson Lumber Company, and he also built homes and houses for the workers of the mill. And basically, the lumber company made the town grow because there was a reason to be here. Wow. Famous people from here, John and Clarence Anglin were two of the inmates who escaped from Alcatraz in 1962. I was just going to say, those are criminals, James. Yeah, you know who they are. Yeah, they escaped from Alcatraz.

They're from this town. There you go. They're famous. I mean, shit, you know who they are. That's amazing, yeah. And one of them supposedly survived it. I don't know if it's true. Yeah, that's the one where we don't know.

I mean, we all do. Because we all stare. If you've ever been to Alcatraz, you stare off and you go, I can make it. It's not that bad. Every time. Every single day. On my back. It's right there.

If I just kick, I'll get it. I'll get it. It's right there. I'm not going to give up. It's not far. I can smell pretzels from over there. I'm getting there. I can hear the guy on the tour.

It's not far. It's not far. It's not far. So reviews of this town, few reviews. They're all pretty positive, actually. But usually you can find some funny stuff in the positive as well

because sometimes a little too enthusiastic, maybe. Here's five stars. Donaldsonville is a small little town in the southwest corner of Georgia. Well, thanks. We knew that already, but tell us what you think.

The town itself is a beautiful place, especially for farming, and would be a wonderful place to raise children. Here in Donaldsonville, I've been through a lot of tough times, but people in the community always keep my spirits up. This town is so small that there are not many job opportunities. Everyone is competing for the same jobs and therefore leaving some of us high school seniors without a spot he's been this person has been through a lot already already high school senior high school and who are they competing with for jobs adults that is a problem if adults and and school kids are going for the same jobs yeah that's an issue that's a problem. If adults and school kids are going for the same jobs, yeah, that's an issue. That's a problem. And you've needed the community to keep you going already.

Wow. I've got news for you, sir. Life's about to get real hard. Yeah, if you think this is hard, Jesus, wait till you get your first electric bill. Holy shit. It is very hard for me to raise money for college, but I promised my mama that I will make it for me and for her. Oh, boy. money for college but i promised my mama that i will make it uh make it for me and for her oh boy i plan to exceed to exceed here in donaldsonville especially with the size of our schools well you won't yeah we have so much one-on-one interactions with our teachers there's

nobody here that's the thing um five stars seed around here heart exceed i plan to exceed here in donaldsonville i was like exceed i thought maybe the rest of the sentence would explain it but no it's succeed and they just use the wrong word well i'll blame it on their mama i think at that point maybe their mama should have taught them better english and that would have helped i don't know who else to blame. You should explain what exceed me. Yeah, no shit. Five stars the next one. My hometown is awesome! Exclamation point.

A place where you will get a smile from a stranger. That sounds creepy. I don't think I like that. Schools have many extracurricular activities that enhance the academic experience. I feel safe and I love my hometown. I would like to see something fun in the community for the young people. Well, then you want to move to not a small town because that's every complaint. It's like, I love this town.

It's so nice and people are nice. There's no traffic. I'd like to see more stuff here. Well, then you want more traffic and more people that aren't friendly because that's the tradeoff. When you get down to a bunch of stuff for children to do, you've already exhausted putting all the things for adults to do. They come last. We don't do shit for them first.

I hope not. Shit. We work every goddamn day. You little motherfuckers can wait. Wait till mom and dad have had theirs. Yeah. So here's four stars. It is a small community with a lot of outdoor activities.

The one thing that I would like to see is more activities for children and young adults. So they really have nothing. This is like old people sitting there chewing on a wheat stalk, I feel like is the main activity. Here's three stars. Okay. I used to live in the area. I would like to see more business opportunity for the citizens of the town for more jobs. In other words, you'd like to see it not be a tiny town.

Right. They're always very go back and forth here. Everyone wants a small town charm and big city conveniences. Yeah. That's not a thing that exists. You've got to pick one. You've got to pick. Sacrifice, Ben.

People in this town, 2,488 people here. And there's some farms and it's spread out. Yeah. Male, female. It's 57% female, which is just extremely out of whack. Fantastic. It's got a great ratio here, but just weird. It's well out of whack of the average.

Median age here is 39, which is right around a year older than the national average here. There's a lot of old people here, though. There's a lot of 65 to 74 people, 75 and up, and also children, little children, 5 to 9 years old, tons of them, too. So that's strange. About 43% married. Divorce rates, which is lower than normal. Divorce rates, normal. 27% are single with children, which is very high. It's normally 10%. So I don't know what's happening around here.

Race of this town, 37.7% white, 57.8% black, 0.9% Asian, 3.3% Hispanic. So it's a, yeah, it's pretty white and black Southern town generally. Religion here, as you might imagine down here, this is, this is a notch in the buckle underneath. This is like one of those, the Bible belt that you unzip and there's money inside. You know what I mean? The money hiding belts that they used to be. This is a Bible belt that you unzip and then more bible comes out there's like bible pages fold up in there this is so much bible belt it's the belt that hangs because it's so long it's the extra

belt they bring fat people on the plane for the extender that's what they have that they're like more bible and they just there you go y'all are safe now 67 religious here yeah no surprise is the opposite of massachusetts where here it is 36 of the people here are baptist as we know just like baptists are as we know the catholics of the south and absolutely works out every time it's amazing but there's a couple there's some, 10% Pentecostal even here. So it's some fire and brimstone stuff. 0.0% Jewish, though. That's not going down around here. In Seminole County, last election, 32.3% voted Democratic, 67.2% voted Republican, 0.5% independent.

So not a lot of independence there. The economy here, the unemployment rate is pretty low. A lot of that, too. There's a lot of farms. So I think a lot of this. You've got some shit to do. I think people work on their farms a lot, too. The median household income, also very low here.

Median household income here, $27,765 a year, which is right about half the national average. So that's not terrific. Cost of living, $100 is regular in the rest of the country average. Here it's $72, so it's pretty low. The housing is super low. $28 is the housing on that scale. $83,600 is your median home cost here. I guess you've got hurricanes and tornadoes, right?

Yeah. Is there natural disasters ruining this? There's a lot of hurricanes because it's in the Gulf. It's inspired by the Gulf. But also, you're going to get a lot of trailers in this area as well, which is going to drive the median home cost down with the trailers. It's trailers and farmhouses is what it is. median home cost down with the trailers. It's trailers and farmhouses is what it is.

So you're either getting nothing, a tin box on a rented lot, or 80 acres. Pick one. It's not a lot of in-between here. So I found, in case we've convinced you, I don't know how we wouldn't have convinced you by now, to move here, we have for you the

Donaldsonville, Georgia Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $756 a month, which is way lower than average, about $500 lower than the national average. Still too high, right? It seems high. I don't know. I found a two-bedroom, two-bath bath this is a 924 foot square foot trailer it's a trailer boom just sitting in the middle of this lot here

there's two well i guess the other one there's one trailer that's definitely the home okay that's where you live and then there's another thing that i don't know what you want to call it it's sort of a trailer but it looks like a trailer if you sent 12-year-olds out and said, collect scrap metal and build a trailer out of it. This is what they would make, essentially. It looks like that. It's just pieced together. Really weird looking thing. It's falling

apart. You don't go in there, I think. It's just a storage, I guess. I have no idea. In the main trailer, there is an igloo cooler where a coffee table goes. In front of the couch. So that's a bad sign. Don't like that at all. I didn't see a shit bucket, but who knows.

Reach in my table and get me a cold one. Move your shit and pick my table lid up. $63,000 for this, though. Not too bad. Here is a three-bedroom, two-bath. This is a house, actually. 1,15 for this though. I mean, not too bad. Um, here's a three bedroom, two bath. This is a house actually.

1,152 square feet. It's, they don't show, it doesn't really, the pictures don't show anything. There's a lake view of the house, but like the interior pictures are like blurry and like you can't see anything. It's weird.

They need to retake the pictures to sell this house, but it's got a lake view there's a lake right there so we know that 146,900 for that 150 grand for a lake house 1200 square foot lake house with three bedrooms not too bad then we have a four bedroom three bath 4021 square foot house. It's a big brick McMansion, basically. It's one of those, there's nothing really remarkable to say about it.

It's just, it's pretty good sized and, you know, it's clean and nice, but it's got no character or personality whatsoever. $489,000 for that bad boy. So like we've found with a lot of these places, they'll have like a low median home cost. But like if you want to live in a piece of shit, there's plenty of those. But any decent house is like more than it should be. That's what it seems like here in these kind of places.

And what is that? Is it because everything else sucks so bad that if you want something good, they're really going to gouge you for it? There's less of it. They build less of it when they can just bring trailers in. It's easier. You know what I mean? So they build less homes and the family homes become more scarce. And that's what happens. It's high demand, I guess.

Yeah. So things to do here. Oh, boy. The Harvest Festival. Oh, boy. You know, that's coming here uh events will begin with rejoice run and mom's mile rejoice run the rejoice run yeah i'm sure that that starts at the church i would assume you start right in the baptist church and then there's like a 10k right out of

there that ends in the baptist church yeah it's a circle definitely a circle followed by the annual parade of course they're gonna do all of this shit they have uh then they're gonna have the pledge of allegiance the national anthem this is at 10 30 they're gonna have the parade the pledge of allegiance the national anthem which will lead up to their main headlining performers who are eli mosley and jake vincent they are nobody they are no i have pictures of them would you like to see them i can't roll on over chief i'll move my screen there's eli he's just a guy belly on eli as i say denim tuxedo and a beer belly but he looks like he's like 25 which is funny but he's got the body of a 50 year he looks like he's like 25, which is funny, but he's got the body of a 50-year-old. Looks like he's going fishing.

Yeah, he's got a fishing hat with his sunglasses on top of it, jeans and a polo shirt. He just looks like your uncle plays the guitar. Saw one in your room and picked it up and started playing Smoke on the Water. That's what it looks like. Ian's belly is incredible. His belly

is awesome, and he's sporting it, too. He's got his hands in his pockets. He is. Yeah, really. He's got a look on his face like, I ate brisket this morning. It's fucking good shit. Brisket and eggs for this photo. Oh, baby.

He looks like he's six months pregnant, though. That's a good one. That's not bad at all. There's also going to be a uh a recipe contest okay what is that a cook off or you just bring just bring the recipe and we all imagine that's what i don't understand how about bring the food and we'll have a food tasting thing and we'll see who's got the recipe god damn it your recipe could be great and your food could be shit or vice versa. You just got to stand here and go, mmm, that sounds good. You say a quarter tablespoon paprika, huh?

Yeah, that'll do it. I'm giving it to her. Susan wins. Quarter tablespoon paprika. I think that'll work. That is how a deviled egg is done. Thank you. Gator hamburgers.

Okay. Gator burgers, I suppose, you can get. Do you think it's real gator hamburgers okay gator burgers i suppose you can get is it do you think it's real gator yeah they got tons of it you're right by the panhandle of florida fuck yeah there's gators can you do ground gator people eat the fuck out of gators you can grind anything so yeah why not uh hot dogs funnel cakes and so much more children's entertainment including pony rides and bounce houses so there's all that shit to happen here then there's the boots and roots rodeo boots and roots this is at the donaldsonville seminal county chamber of commerce's annual boots and roots rodeo gonna put boots to your roots, buddy. Oh, my God. Mark your calendar.

Get ready to kick up some dust and experience a professional rodeo right here in Seminole County. All right. Oh, yeah. Tickets for adults are $15 and $10 for kids ages 6 to 12. And then the other kids are free. 13? They're an adult now

yeah 13 adult little fucker come on now cowboys and cowgirls will compete in 8 of the world's most action packed events which include bareback riding you gotta have that oh that's awesome steer wrestling calf roping

cowgirls breakaway roping saddle bronc riding team roping cowgirls breakaway roping saddle bronc riding team roping cowgirls barrel racing and the ever exciting bull riding of course that's the rodeo i love all of it plenty of plea i was gonna say you're saying you don't like it i think you'd like this place honestly that sounds awesome i think you'd enjoy it uh there there will be be plenty of pregame rodeo activities for the whole family. Oh, my God. There you go. So head on over to that, the Boots and Roots Rodeo.

Beer and brisket. Boots and roots. Boots and roots and beer and brisket. Come on out, everybody. Crime rate in this town, when we're here, it sounds like it would be nonexistent, right? It should be the most friendly place on earth. From what we hear isn't even anything to do if there's nothing to do you can't have crime that should be like that's

ridiculous there isn't even anything to do and i'm scared to go do whatever we have to do no i'm not doing that at least if it's like if you're going to new york city you're like okay yeah you know i could get stabbed in the whatever but there's a shitload of stuff to do and the odds are that i won't be stabbed whereas here if there's a stabber out there there's only 2500 people your odds of being stabbed are a lot lower or higher i should say uh crime rate in this town property crime is a little bit high real actually yeah a little higher than the national average and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount Rushmore of crime is right at average. What the fuck?

So it's very fucking strange. I don't understand it. Really weird shit here. That said, let's talk about a murder, Jimmy, or many murders, I should say. Yeah, this town, this county, there's not a lot of murders that go on here. There just isn't. It just doesn't happen this this what happened we'll say this event that happened uh i mean people still know about it

now in this place it's not like it's a big event it's yeah it's the murder here or the murders the slaughter is really what they call it so oh it's a it's a fucking scene, man. Let's get started. Let's talk about some folk, shall we? Yeah. Some farm folk. This is Ned and Ernestine Alday. A.L.D.A.Y. Alday. Ned and Ernestine.

Ned and Ernestine. We're going to catch up with them in 1973 ish. OK, that's where the story is going to take place. But their story begins well before that ned and ernestine uh they eloped in 1935 wow isn't that sweet during the depression just a depression eloping that's very that's nice stuff they're still together in the 70s 40 fucking years together 40 years and nine children later. Jesus. Here they are. So it worked out.

What a story. That's beautiful. Not sure why they eloped, but I don't know if somebody didn't like somebody or whatever. But in the end, I think they were proven right. We'll just put it that way. Seems like justified. They made it. They had nine children.

They scrimped and saved in the beginning and eventually got a small house in Donaldsonville. And then they saved, saved, saved and enough to purchase the farm with a farmhouse enough for the room for the kids and somewhere where they can have their own thing here. So they bought a farm and they got to that, and Ned's known as a real fun guy, real jokester, smiley kind of, which is straight. You wouldn't expect a Depression-era farmer to be a real jokester, but he is. I mean, I guess hard times make for a sense of humor. It happens. Neds are always a blast. Yeah, his name's Ned.

He's going to be, hey, I'm Ned. Yeah, it's Ned Ryerson over here. Ned the Head. last yeah his name's ned he's gonna be hey i'm ned yeah it's ned ryerson over here ned the head so um by 1973 they have a property on river road it's their farm they have it's a working farm they have crops they have animals they have acres to plow it's a real fucking deal oh 525 acre tract of land what oh yeah 12 miles south of donaldsonville so i mean this is a real this is a real farm yeah and they have all their kids are all they all help out the ones that even the ones that don't live there anymore still they work on the farm and it's all it's a big family event here um they have uh the people who live there now are net and ernestine and their youngest children

uh fay and jimmy both live there with. All the other kids either live on trailers on the property or they have their own houses, but they all live close by. So they have a son named Jerry. He married a woman named Mary Campbell. In 1973, Jerry's 35, and he married a woman that's – she's 26 at this point, Mary. So she's now Mary all day. In 1970, they moved into a trailer a few miles down the road from the farmhouse to stay close. So it's, everybody, even when they move out of the house, they move down the street. They don't like, yeah, they're not like, I'm getting the fuck out of this place.

Like, there's none of those kids. They're like, oh, I better stay nearby in case I need to plow the field. Nice kids. They have another son named Chester, and he is known as Shugie. Really? S-U-G-I-E. I'm going to go with Shugie. Could be Sugie, but.

That's certainly Shugie, right? It's Shugie, I think. Yeah, that's what I think it is, too. So he's a big, strong farm boy, Shuggy, as you might imagine. Chester, I'll take Shuggy over Chester any day. Isn't it Chet, though? Like, that's the good one, right? It's who you run with.

Yeah, but if anyone finds out your name is Chester, you're immediately, it's just, you can't help it. It's immediately going to be rhymed with molester and it's over for you as a kid. If somebody introduced themselves as Chet, I high-five them for not being called chester because absolutely for sure their name a lot of people would go so your name's chester you've been chester the molester and that's that's your whole high school life is ruined now yeah if you girl i'm i think i like chester's kind of cute chester the molester well that's over you're. You're done. So, Shuggy. He lives with his wife, Barbara. They got married in 1969.

They have a bunch of kids. So they're having their thing as well. But all the family lives pretty close, like we said, all in a little bit of circle. The Aldays are considered by everyone around. Everyone says they kind of keep to themselves cause they're working on, they all have a farm. So there's no reason to really, you know, they're not running like a fucking sandwich shop in town where they need to be real.

Hey everybody, how you doing? Come on in for a free fucking footlong. This is a different thing here. Uh, they say they're kind of, they, they stick together. Everybody works on the farm. They're a close knit, big family. And with that many people who else do you need really there's nothing you don't really need a lot of other people around they say though they work their asses off on this farm i mean it's a it's a back-breaking life 500 that's so many acres

it's a fucking big farm man that's a huge farm for people to run on their own they don't have like hired hands. Sometimes when the harvest or something like that, they'll hire a couple people to help out with that. But, I mean, generally, it's just the family running this farm here. Do we know what they're growing or cultivating? I'm not sure. They've got a whole bunch of shit, though, I know, down there. There's probably corn and cotton.

I'm trying to think of the environment. Yeah, different stuff. And the animals are a big deal too. They have a bunch of animals as well. Oh, they're doing livestock too? Yeah, they have cows, they have chickens, they have pigs, they have the whole deal. I mean, it's a goddamn big farm. It's a huge farm.

It's Old MacDonald. It's Old MacDonald. So they work really hard. Huge churchgoers as well. They're very religious and everything like that. They're very religious and very, you know, everything like that there. No one has ever either. No, they're not like they never do anything wrong.

They never cause any any kind of, you know, trouble in the community. None of them even drink. They're all teetotalers. I mean, no one drinks at all. There's never been a police officer here. There's never been a domestic violence report. There's never been a disorderly. None of the kids got drunk and like broke car windows in town or anything nothing ever happened these are the most upstanding let's just go out on the farm and then go to church okay pa well

that sounds good son sure you know that's all it is it's all they do is farm and pray that there's nothing else he's gonna make a a terrible reality show one day. Oh, very boring. They'd have the most boring reality show ever. Well, I was out on the farm today. Well, anything crazy happen? Nope. One of the pigs is sick.

Okay. Is your daughter like maybe involved with any of the local kids around? Nope, nope. No time between her studies and the farming, see? She's not willing to milk them cows. So how much longer is this show going to last? Oh, 40 more minutes, huh? Oh, boy.

We are in trouble. Want to watch me plow something? No, not my wife, you perverted son of a bitch. I'm talking about a field. So pretty boring people, but nice boring people that keep to themselves and be as boring as you want to be. Who fucking cares? They're not bothering anybody, so good for you. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. You're not bothering

anybody. Enter someone who definitely bothers people a lot. Oh boy. Let's enter. Let's, let's add a new character to this, to this deal here. I'm going to guess farmhand. No, not even close. Uh, so you got the farm people. They're down there, southwest Georgia, down in Donaldsonville, Georgia. Now let's cut to Baltimore. No. That's what I mean. Can't get any more different. Let's completely flip the script and cut to Baltimore, Maryland, where a young boy is growing up named Carl Junior Isaacs.

Junior's his middle name. Now, if you've ever listened to crime and sports, we figured out that for some reason, athletes that have a predilection toward crime, there's an exorbitant amount of them, an inordinate amount of them, that are either juniors themselves or then named their sons junior after them. Someone just did the math,

and it was 33% of over 300 episodes that's insane that's a lot so heavy anytime juniors involved in anything anywhere we always go oh i don't like that that's that's a bad sign and this isn't even a real junior his middle name his middle name junior somebody needs to explain to his family how that shit works that's better than otis nixon the braves outfielder who was named otis junior nixon jr and he was a junior was not named and his dad that was wild that was great yeah i don't know wow that broke my brain when we read that shit so that's how it works carl jr isaacs uh he was born in 1954 he in 1973 is 19 years old and he has had a full life already boy let me tell you

something he had been he's already been by his 16th birthday he's been convicted of a series of burglaries violence theft car stealing everything like that he's uh truancy charges he was a runaway uh also there is a possible murder that he committed when he was 14 as well. Oh, my. He'll always claim he did it, and they don't doubt it at all. He was a truant and a runaway. He was diagnosed in one

of his stays in a state home. He was diagnosed with depression, with poor self image, and with an inability to handle his angry emotions, and with particular hostility toward women as well. A good, a nice cocktail for a young man. Really?

He's going to be a problem. He's going to be a problem. He, uh, before he even, he grew up in like a shit area of Baltimore too. He grew up in, well, I think he grew up in probably, I'm going to say, um, the, um um one area they talk about in the homicide book all the time where they're there's white people from but they're like they're like white trash white people they're they live in baltimore but they have a southern accent which is like oh wow well it's not that that's white trash but they're they're they they did the whole lineage of it basically like west like West Virginia coal miners came to Baltimore looking for work, and they set up little enclaves here. So it's like these are like two generations ago, these were hillbillies that lived in the woods.

Instead, now they live in Baltimore. So that's the stock he's from here. He wrecked the first car he stole. He got arrested for it because he wrecked it because he wasn't tall enough to see over the steering wheel my man so that's how young he started not even tall enough to see over shit he was legs stretched out on the gas pedal trying to see over shit crashed it so then he says and he'll say it forever he said he killed a man when he was 14 to impress his girlfriend. To impress a girl.

Yeah, to show her he was cool. He said he drove up to a corner where there was a bunch of guys, and he just shot a bunch of shots out the window, and one of the men died. And, yeah, he said that he just shot him, killed him, didn't care. The girl was impressed. Look at you. It worked. You're badass, buddy. So he then was in a series of foster homes and juvenile jails and all sorts of different places.

They were trying to place this kid to see what would happen, see if they could ever fix him. But he's pretty unfixable here um at one point he knowingly at about 13 or 14 he knowingly um exchanged yeah room and board for sexual favors with a pedophile oh my god like he knew the guy was a pedophile and said we'll tell you what let's make it let's you what, let's make a deal. Let's make a deal here. Yeah. And, of course, the pedophile was more than happy for that.

Yikes. Christ almighty, that's a disgusting pedophile's dream. You know, Christ. So this was in one of his escapes from a juvenile facility. Eventually, I think the guy turned him in, too, because he was too good. Even a pedophile was like, Jesus Christ, this kid's out of his mind. So he by the time he's 16 and like 1970, he's regularly stealing cars, burglarizing homes, getting arrested. Second arrest was for car theft and breaking and entering.

And he ended up being sentenced to the Maryland State Penitentiary. And he got there on March 27, 1973. Okay. Now, he's 16 years old. They put him in an adult prison. Oh, God. Okay. Or no, this time he's still, he's 18 at this point, 18 and 73.

Two days after he got there, a large riot broke out in the prison. Perfect. Which is not a good time for a brand new inmate who doesn't know anybody, has no allegiances, and is a young kid. And apparently he is beaten and raped by inmates for over eight hours. Eight hours. Eight hours. So that happened. Welcome.

Yeah, that's not a good thing i mean at this point other than claiming to kill a man of the only other things he'd done are theft and i mean he's a kid who's out there on his own in the streets he's just running the streets like a crazy person but this is uh this is bad stuff here so 10 days later they transferred him to another place because i guess I don't know if they felt bad for him or what the fuck they felt or they knew that they put him in the wrong spot or what. But he was transferred to the Maryland correction camp. And then on April 25th of 1973, he's transferred to the minimum minimum security Poplar Hill facility. Minimum security. Now they're keeping him in because it's he's in there for nonviolent shit. So that's fine.

While he's in jail, another someone he knows also happens to be in jail with him. Someone he knows well, as a matter of fact, a man named Wayne Coleman, who's 26 years old, who happens to be Carl's half brother. Oh, great. So at least, yeah. to be Carl's half brother. Oh, great. So at least. Yeah. So now he's now he's got a partner in crime here in jail. So he's been in and out of institutions his whole life, too. His life wasn't any fucking better.

He was born in Pennsylvania, youngest of five children. Betty Coleman Isaacs is their mother. That's their mother, Betty. She was a roadhouse waitress on the Baltimore waterfront. We're not talking waterfront now where it's like Disneyland, the waterfront. It's like D.C. It's rich people. It's all spruced up.

It's to go there and have dinner, and it's all nice and plastic. It's like a mall, basically. Back then, the waterfront was guys from the docks drinking. That's who hung out at the waterfront. You know what I mean? People didn't fucking go down and hang out at the waterfront in 1972. There was no nice things there. It was dock workers, and that's where she worked.

So that's where she met both of their fathers, who are not the same guy, obviously. Yeah, the Isaacs, they were all born, I guess, here in Pennsylvania, including Carl. Altogether, she ends up with seven kids from different people. Both Wayne and Carl's father both had drinking problems and deserted the family. One was a drunk. They had Wayne, a's father. Both had drinking problems. And deserted the family. One was a drunk. They had Wayne.

A couple more kids. He took off. Another one comes in. Some drunk. Knocking everybody around. Gets her pregnant. A few more times. Carl's born.

He takes off too. So. It's all going swimmingly. Here for everybody. Just going great. So. I guess. Coleman here.

Wayne. He was first arrested. For breaking and entering. At the age of 16. just going great. So I guess Coleman here, Wayne, he was first arrested for breaking and entering at the age of 16. So again, just like his brother here, and he spent time in juvenile detention. As an adult, his first recorded arrest

was in 1968 when he was 21 on a charge of breaking and entering. You betcha. There's a certain style here these guys have, I think. His parole in that case was revoked when he was arrested while out on parole

for, Jesus Christ, three counts of assault with intent to murder. Oh my god. And carrying a concealed weapon. Both. I assume he was going to use the concealed weapon to murder. I can only think. Three counts, though. Three counts. So in 1971 he was going to use the concealed weapon to murder. I can only think. Three counts, though. Three counts.

So in 1971, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison, not only for that, but for also robbing a rural Maryland grocery store with a shotgun. So can't do that, really. That's against that's against the laws. that really that's against that's against the laws and um either way somehow how the fuck that guy ended up in minimum security prison within two years of being in the system i don't know but carl that's a great point but wayne uh wayne coleman's there too yeah he's he held up a people with a shotgun and was charged with assault with intent to murder minimum security please let's keep him let's keep an eye on that one right for a while if we're gonna hold him in there might as well keep an eye on him right you know maybe carl i can see

he's minimum security worthy i don't know like carl uh you know he's in for non-violent shit yeah he uh he has he's a he's a young guy he's under 20 he's only 18 i i can see them they jesus christ the first trouble that broke out he got raped for eight hours so i mean they're thinking him he might need minimum security and that makes sense but fucking wayne i think minimum security is more of a like an apology for his off yeah welcoming gift i'd say so way to be indoctrinated into the prison system i would say we got you this minimum security prison and a soft chair. Please accept our apologies.

We got you the thickest pillow that we have. You can also sit on that. Oh, my God. So anyway, they had been- And a lot of Listerine to rinse them out. Oh, no. So they end up in the same jail together, which, like I said, at least they have each other there. Now, Wayne is kind of more shy.

The older one is actually the shy. He's more of the follower, and the 19-year-old is more of the leader out of the two of them, which is very strange. Thank God he was so passive. Because if he wasn't so passive, there might be a lot of bodies. There'd be bodies everywhere. Thankfully, he's shy. I like that he's shy. There's nothing shy about robbing a grocery store with a shotgun.

That's the least shy thing ever. He carried a Grinch tester into a fucking come and go for Christ's sake. Get on the ground and put all your fucking money in front of you or I'll blow your fucking head off. That's not shy. That's not shy. I'm too shy to do that. That's the most outgoing man on the

planet. I'm too shy to do that. That's what that is. Or I'm too shy to have to shit in front of people in prison later on when I get arrested for it. Maybe that's what it is or i'm too shy to have to shit in front of people in prison later on when i get arrested for it maybe that's what it's either way too shy i'm gonna take this out to piss in a steel toilet too shy i don't want you to see it but uh yeah he's a little so he i guess he's shy in his personal life but not in his business world i guess but he's known as a follower definitely he's kind of an awkward guy socially wayne is so carl is the the alpha out of the two of them in charge of everything here so carl immediately when he gets sent to poplar hill he knew that

his brother was there so he immediately sought his brother out obviously and he fucking starts to get in wayne coleman's ear and he's like listen man carl has an ego that's like crazy he's like yeah he thinks of himself as way bigger than everything like he's a he's a very charles manson like mind as far as delusions go of fucking grandeur and i'm yeah he thinks he's he thinks he's the smartest he thinks he's the smartest. He thinks he can game the system. He thinks he can get away with anything. He's a child. Yeah, and he has no feelings whatsoever, as we'll find out.

So soon as he gets in there, he starts yapping in Wayne's ear about, we can escape. I know how to do it. We can get the fuck out of here. What are we doing in here? We don't want to be in here. You want to be in jail forever? So Coleman said, his brother said, okay, I'll do it. I'll go fuck out of here what are we doing in here we don't want to be in here you want to be in jail forever so coleman said his brother said okay i'll do it i'll go with you i'll help you because they needed everybody on board to do this i'll help you but only if you let me bring a friend with me yeah only if you let me bring a friend his friend is 36 year old george uh dungy d-u-n-g-e-e like tony dungy so george dungy who's 36 so now we have 19

26 36 is our fucking people here a very odd group very an eclectic group and especially we need every decade we need them all involved we need them all involved and the coleman coleman and isaacs are two white kids and george Dungy is a black guy, too. So they're a very odd group together as far as in in the early 70s to be hanging out together. Like who? Who the fuck is who? I don't can't put that together. They're two.

Their ages aren't right to be friends. OK, he don't look old enough to be his father. He could be, but he ain't the right color to be. So I don't know what the fuck the relationship between the three of. He could be, but he ain't the right color to be. So I don't know what the fuck the relationship between the three of y'all is, but I'm confused is what people would say in the 70s. So he has big, thick black glasses, George Dungy as well. He's mainly a petty criminal. He's a guy who belongs in minimum security prison for the most part. He was sentenced to larceny at age 15

and then doesn't get arrested again until he's 24 when he gets arrested for larceny, which, I mean... And he's in jail for 12 years for that? No, well, two years after that, he was convicted of forgery. Okay. And then a year after that, in 1965, he was jailed for non-support of a child and for burglary. Okay, so you're telling me it's it's financial crimes it's a bunch of yeah none of these people have money is the problem

that's the issue with everybody here so he uh no one in the story except for the adlai's have have uh or have any kind of money at all yeah so they have nothing here. So the anyway, so after that, he gets paroled for the burglary sentence, Dungy. Then in 1973, he gets arrested for non-support again. So, yeah, which is dealing and a contempt. Yeah. Where is he going to get the money from? Maybe get a job. That's possible.

He could do that. All three of these people get a job. Maybe stop breaking and entering. He could do that. All three of these people get a job. Maybe stop breaking and entering. So he's arrested for non-support again, which is a contempt of court sentence that puts him in prison. Again, Poplar Hill with these people. Now, he appears he's a very mild mannered guy, too. Very meek. He's not a real he's not a none of these are violent crimes. I mean, he's not a violent criminal at all. He's been incarcerated here. And while he's there, he, he's been cellmates with Wayne Coleman where they've been carrying on a gay relationship in prison. Oh, terrific. But it's just for them.

It's just a prison thing. That's all. Yeah. We're surviving. Exactly. This isn't like we can't wait to get out and buy a nice bed and breakfast together. That's not what they're looking for. They're, they're just, just, you know, just looking to get by on our own. Yeah, exactly. So this is also strange, though, the whole thing. So now Dungy is set to be released pretty soon from here, by the way, he's supposed to get out like later this year. supposed to get out like later this year somehow though they can stay talk him into coming along for the escape even though he's getting out anyway which is really stupid reason is to

dungy has about a on a good day a 70 iq so that's not going well for him and in terms of brain power as we'll discuss later on here but now wayne said he's got to come with me if you want me to break out with you so carl even though he does not like dungy he says fine he can come too if that's what it takes so whatever may 5th 1973 is the day now it's not a big there's not a you know normally we're like okay they put a dummy in here and then this one came and one shoved the guard in while the other one took a key there's no bars here so they just climb out a bathroom window and run away into the woods it's just that easy there's not it's minimum security so they don't it's basically trustee shit like you're all going to get out soon why would you escape and get

more time yeah this is a basic thing and they slid a window and slid through it so they just went out a bathroom window and went out and hid in the woods um after several hours of kind of hiding and waiting for everything to die down they made their way into baltimore where they steal a blue ford thunderbird and um they fucking drive away in that and um yeah apparently by the way those early 70s thunderbirds very easy to steal. They were known for it. So they the Poplar Hill, the prison, they realize, hey, we have three less people than we should here. That's a fucking problem. But they also said that nothing in their criminal histories indicated a grave public danger.

So they did not alert the authorities that the capture of them was of the utmost importance. They weren't like, they were like, if you run into them, bring them back here. That's basically what they said. They weren't like in the hell is happening.

There's like a, like you could put it on, on a scale, like one to 10, 10 being red alert. You know, this guy's looking for blood. They're like a two.

Maybe you can just take a take a breather maybe if you run across one of them grab them see what they're up to not sure that seems nuts uh because i would say no the desperation of these fellas uh yeah yeah everybody reacts to situations differently you know what i mean and we know one of them will stick a shotgun in your face and ask for your money. True. Yeah. What if you say no?

The shy one. Yeah. He's the nice one. You got the dumb one, the mean one, and the nice one. The shy one. This is what we got here. And the nice one does some pretty violent shit. I would say so.

So no one's really looking for them. It's literally like around Baltimore. If you see three guys look like they should be in jail, let us know. That's all it is. There's not like a holy shit. Let's get these guys back in jail situation. So they just they have a stolen car and they just aimlessly drive around and hang out and, you know, in Baltimore, just all in and around Baltimore. Finally, Carl says, hey, you know what?

Let's add another to this list. Let's go pick up my brother. Let's go pick up my other brother. My little 15-year-old brother, Billy, should really be involved in a prison escape. We should get him involved in this. That's nice right i mean if you if you if you add a child to this then three dudes with a child doesn't look as you know i mean it doesn't look i suppose but still cops stop looking at him who the fuck's kid is he now who cares what is

happening who are these people who cares they're not all cousins i know that much we got out these guys are great dudes. Ted Danson's here. They're watching the baby. It's not going well here. There's four of them now, though. Now it's three felons and a baby and a teenager. So 15-year-old Billy they pick up. That's perfect.

Billy was living with a girlfriend of his at 15 which is great we'll find out well if wayne and carl's lives went the way they went what do you think billy's was white picket fence or what at least he's staying with a family no no no just some chick i think an older chick too some like 19 year old with a sleazy apartment or something i love it oh yeah um and he said fuck y'all come on in the car hell yeah buddy high five i've missed you carl was his hero he worshipped carl so carl said come on buddy broke out of jail come on for the ride and he was like yeehaw motherfucker let's do it okay get in the car um this is a little thing about billy this is um their sister billy and and and uh carl's sister she said quote the last time

billy was in school was the first day of ninth grade he just went one day i think registration was too much for him because he cut that afternoon so he went to half a day of high school he went to half a day of high school that's where that's his extent of his education he went to hi i'm billy this is too hard they were like fill this out he was like oh shit um hi i'm billy last name i'm going home shit i'm gonna uh where the exits that all right clearly marked thank you um too much for him And that was like last year, too. So it's not like he's improved since then. Maybe he went, James, and expected some actual gel soap.

And then he went to wash his hands and it was still that powder. And he was like, I can't do another year of this. I got to go, man. This is ridiculous. So they spent, now there's four of them, they spent like almost a week just driving around. Really? With a stolen car. No one notices.

Stolen car, three fucking felons on the run, none of that shit, right? Driving through a metropolis. Driving all the way into Maryland, just driving everywhere. They drive into Pennsylvania as well. Why not? Doing tons of break-ins. Anytime they see a house that looks empty they go break in and they break in steal shit they're robbing people they're just it's a little crime spree little crime spree all

around pennsylvania and maryland uh they get some cash some new clothes because you can't walk around with jail clothes they get guns also that they find in people's houses um the plan is to head south to either florida or me, which are very different places. One is still in the United States. They're not connected. And to, quote, live the good life. Yeah. They said they're going to go down, drinks and drugs, and do whatever they want down there.

It's going to be fun, right? Florida or Mexico. Get a newspaper because both those places it's tough to live the good life you got to have money yeah b uh when you live the good life you draw attention of other people a little bit a little bit especially this group in mexico is going to draw some attention i would say while they're living the good life. Three felons and a freshman. Oh, my God. So on May 10th, 1973, this is five days later, they're near McConnellsburg, Pennsylvania, and they're stealing a pickup truck. Okay. A kid sees them.

A young man sees them doing this. A 19-year-old named Richard Wayne Miller. He is old Dickie Miller here. He's a nice kid, upstanding kid, complete opposite of Carl. Same age, but complete opposite. He's like an upstanding kid, got good grades in school, and is a member of the Future Farmers of America. The FFA.

The FFA, yeah. Oh, boy. He spotted this because it's his neighbor's truck. He sees somebody stealing his neighbor's truck, and he goes, oh, shit, and gives chase. He jumps in his fucking car, a 1968 Chevy Supersport, and he's fucking gone. Hell yeah.

He's got a nice ride. Got a fucking Chevelle. Fuck yeah, he does. Go get him, sir. That's badass. So he takes off, breaks ass off after them in pursuit, and he's never seen again. Whoa. Never see old richard again he outran

him see those super sports he kept on going he said where y'all going florida whoo beat you there buddy whoo and then he just took off beep the horn and he just kept going that's chevelle so fast it'll outrun the planet and just keep on going keeps on going man right off into space oh so there's a description put out this is the they're like in case you run into these guys just to let you know uh wayne carl coleman 25 5 foot 5 inches tall 140 pounds brown hair tattoos on each arm in 1973 so you know looks like a convict essentially is what they're saying here carl isaacs is um 19 he's 5 foot 6 150 pound um brown hair kind of longer hair here and then george dungy is 35 years old he's 5 foot 4 and a half 145 pounds and he wears glasses so

that's the crew and And then a child also. So there's that. That's who you're looking for here. Now, Jesus Christ, another suspect they have here. They're there. Well, I'm sorry. They're talking. And Billy is five foot nine, 140 pounds.

That's who they're looking for. So somehow he's the tall one of the group here. Now, the lieutenant at the Maryland work camp that they escaped from said, quote, this is a minimum security place. There are no bars or anything. They just climbed out a window. If you want to leave, you can leave. But, I mean, why would you want to leave? You can go somewhere else with more time.

Somewhere where inmates are going to rape you for eight hours. That doesn't happen here because there's no bars. Jesus Christ. So they said they asked the guy, the lieutenant here of the place, did they take any weapons with them? And this guy said, quote, they weren't supposed to have any with them. Well, they also weren't supposed to escape either. So let's not go into they weren't supposed to. As far as we know, any weapons they would have picked up would be from robberies after they left the prison.

So that makes sense. If they've got them. No. Coleman had served three years of a 10 year sentence for robbery. Isaacs had served. This is Carl served three months of a four year term for burglary. And Dungy had been an inmate on an 18 month sentence for contempt of court and was going to get out within the next year. Now, May 14th, 1973.

Last time we talked to them was May 10th when Miller disappeared. Remember the guy with the super sport? He disappeared, Richard Wayne Miller. Now, May 14th, 1973, nine days after escape. They're still out there driving around. On this day, back to the Allday family, as we remember here. Ernestine Allday day she spent that morning as she usually did preparing the midday meal for all the guys coming back in from the farm

sure and doing household chores as one does yeah this is a pie cooling on the windowsill kind of lady you know what i mean like you know it's it's lunchtime because there's pies cooling you bet you smell them out there so at noon noon on the, the all-day men arrive for lunch in from the fields. They say their little prayer and all that kind of shit, and they talk about what they're going to do for the rest of the day while they eat. And Ned and Jerry were plowing a field. Jerry's the 35-year-old. Ned's the father, just a refresher. They were plowing a field, and there's muddy patches They were plowing a field and there's muddy patches.

It's rained recently, so there's muddy patches. So it's taken longer than normal. They're kind of like, ah, Jesus Christ, goddamn fields, a pain in my ass. So Jimmy, the 25 year old, he planned to finish plowing a flat field he had started and then plow the fields behind Jerry's trailer, which Jerry has the trailer out there after lunch, while Shuggie would join his uncle Aubrey, who is Ned's brother and all the kids uncle. He's 57 years old. Uncle Aubrey. They're going to jump on some equipment that they borrowed from a neighbor to work a Western field because they got to get all the shit done. So they finish up their meal.

And by one o'clock they all leave the house. Ernestine is left to clean shit up behind. You know, she's cleaning up the meal. They're going out to work. Now back to the scumbags here.

Our scumbag posse. Yeah. Our quartet of scumbags. These idiots, this is May 14th, 1973, that day. It's a Monday. They are now in Richard Miller's

car by the way oh yeah they dumped the car they had and they end up in there like this is a fucking super sport buddy high five so Richard Miller never heard or seen from again but his car is now in Georgia with these four scumbags that's not a good sign back more

on that later so anyway they are after driving all over the places we'll talk about they pull into seminole county georgia that day okay this is very my cousin vinnie except if they were actually bad guys it's you know it is it's the bizarro my cousin vinnie it's the actual the guys who were in the 63 Pontiac Tempest who actually did it and drove away. That's these guys. That's who they are. And somewhere there's four guys who look just like them who are really nice guys and just on their way to college.

We don't know. In a very similar super sport. These assholes in the same car with a 357. This is Bizarro My Cousin Vinny. That's the only way to play i think that's the name of the episode i think probably bizarro my cousin vinny so they pull up in the super sport it's a beautiful day in georgia by the way for may for mid-may high of 73 that day mid-may south georgia that's real nice below normal cloud partly cloudy just a nice damn day little breeze and all that sort of thing

well these quartet of idiots are at almost out of gas as they're driving around a rural county that's the thing about those cars they pass everything but a gas station that's what they say about it absolutely right my friend so they're driving in seminole county this is you know this is all of them billy carl way Wayne Coleman and and Dungy here. They're all driving around. They said they went all the way to Jacksonville, which, by the way, is by the ocean on the other side of Florida. Yeah. They went all the way there and then went back through the panhandle that went west in Florida and ended up here in western Georgia.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media will have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So they did all of that. They decided on this area because it's so remote. There's not a lot of shit around, and they only have a small little police department. These are these county police forces that it'll be like a, I know this one for a fact,

there's two officers for a 27 know this one for a fact. There's two officers for a 275 square mile area to do. That's what they do. Yeah, it's 135 square miles. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why they came here because they said this is a rural area and it'd be a good place to steal some shit and get some money to head on down to Mexico. So they're driving down there, driving around, despite doing a shitload of burglaries. They're they're broke here. They're spending all their money on beer and shit like that. They're not

they're not. They don't have like a savings account and they're like writing down in and outs and stuff. It's they got some cash. They get a bunch of beer. They get a bunch of food. They get shit-faced. They go steal some more the next day. That's how it works here. So they're almost out of gas. Carl is hoping to find either people to rob or gas to siphon, maybe a car sitting by itself, something.

So about 4 p.m., he spots a tank sitting alone in a field about 50 feet from the road. A what? Okay. A tank. Gas tank out there. Oh. Like a thing. Thank God.

He sees that. What did you think I said? A tank. But I thought- Oh, like a- Like a track tank. Like the Chinese are invading. Yeah, I know.

Yeah. That would be a way different turn to the story. That's not good. Where'd that come from? What is this, Red Dawn now? Is this my cousin Vinny or Red Dawn? What are we watching? Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. The guy that's shy threatens. Jesus Christ. And now they've got a tank. Now they have a tank. No, they see this gas tank out there, and they go up to it, but it's a diesel tank. It's diesel gas. so they're like well fuck that's not going to help us very much so 15 minutes later they continue on they find what they

appear to be the perfect place here looks like a house with a trailer behind it on the property and looks like a gas pump right there on the property and they're like right there it is baby we found it. We're going to pull up, get some fucking gas, and see if there's some shit to rob maybe. Who knows? So they pull up. They find out there's no pump. It's just a storage thing.

So they're like, fuck. Yeah, god damn it. So they're like, shit. But they did see that there's a trailer right there. That is Jerry Alday's trailer that he lives in with his wife. And he says, they say, well, there's a trailer right here. Nobody's fucking in it. Let's rob it.

You know, there's got to be. It looks like there's shit in there. Let's go rob it. So I guess Dungy remains in the car while Carl and Wayne go into the trailer. While they're inside, Billy was like standing outside, like doing watch, basically. He was the lookout guy. Dungy stayed in the car. The other two go in, right?

So Billy says, hey, two guys are coming up in a Jeep right now, shouts in there. So Carl and Wayne are ransacking the trailer, and the other ones are outside. Like we said, a blue Jeep pulls up. It's Jerry all day and his father, Ned. Okay. Uh, this is in Jerry's Jeep and they're unaware. They don't even see them. They're coming from behind the trailer.

They don't see them. They don't know the trailers being burglarized at the moment. They have no fucking idea. So normally they would return to Jerry's house after work and they'd meet up with the other guys to plan the next day of farming while Jerry's wife, Mary, does some gardening in the front yard. That's the normal day. And then everybody goes back to their respective places. But instead, when they get to the trailer, they are met by Carl, which is not normal, who holds them at gunpoint and orders them into the kitchen, has them sit down at the kitchen table and makes them all empty their pockets. Fair to Rob.

So they get a pen knife, a cigarette lighter, a wallet, some change, you know, not much. Well, they're out working on the farm. It's not like they have their finery in their pockets. I left my Rolex at home. Sorry. I was out plowing the field. You know what I mean? You don't take a – what are you going to need money for in the middle of a field?

I don't keep wads in the pockets when I'm tending to the corn. Generally don't need to do that. So they get upset by that. take jerry the 35 year old son to the south bedroom of the trailer and they take ned to the north bedroom of the trailer okay so opposite sides um apparently billy will say carl pulled out a pistol wayne pulled out a pistol and i pulled out mine that's how this all started all three of them had pistols they pulled in now jerry he's the 35 year old who lives in this trailer he is telling carl that basically my wife is going to be home soon please don't hurt her she doesn't have any money

just go leave her the fuck alone she won't have any money so don't stick around to rob my wife who has no money basically so that's what he's saying now they didn't know she even had a wife or she was going to be home soon now they know there's somebody else coming so carl shoots jerry in the face oh boy uh yes he shoots jerry and also at that point he hears gunshots and struggling from the other side of the trailer jerry dies right there he runs down and sees apparently wayne shot ned in the face and ned's a big guy and he's a big farm guy i mean he put a fucking built a farm for christ's sake he shot ned in the face ned fell down on the bed and got back up and started coming after him. Oh God. So you son of a bitch,

how dare you? Which, yeah, holy fuck. We know from the Richard Ramirez stuff. Like if you shoot a guy in the face and he gets mad at you, you fucking run. You,

you turn around and you run. Yeah. That's your best shot. And it didn't work. So get the hell out of there. Instead, he's got an assistant here as Carl comes up from behind as well. And, uh, they both shoot the shit out of there instead he's got an assistant here as carl comes up from behind as well and uh they both shoot the shit out of ned uh he'll end up being shot six times with two different caliber pistols um 22 and 32 caliber um and jerry was shot four times of the 22 in the face and in the back

of the head a bunch of time he went down he just bump pop pop pop in the back of his head just to make sure so now jerry and ned are dead in the trailer okay shortly after that like within a couple of minutes jimmy all day pulls up oh no he's ned's son and jerry's brother obviously he's 25 26 jimmy he drives up on a up on a green John Deere tractor. Just coming from the field in there. Sounds like a Jimmy. That sounds like Jimmy from the farm. He walks up to the back door of the trailer and knocks on it lightly, like he would normally do. Hey, guys, knocking on it.

He is greeted by the door opening and Wayne Coleman holding a pistol in his face. Yeah. Okay. He drags him inside, takes his hat off his head, steals his sunglasses, and takes his wallet, right? So now Carl says, you heard shots, didn't you? That's what he said. He's accusing, he's saying, you came here because you heard gunshots, right? Jimmy's like, what the fuck are you talking?

Like, what is happening? He's on a trailer, on a tractor. He didn't hear 22 shots. he didn't hear 22 shots those are so loud i didn't hear a goddamn thing he's tilling for christ he's not gonna hear a fucking 22 shot from a quarter mile away from 200 acres away no one's gonna hear that so he uh he accused him that he said you heard gunshots didn't you he goes well you're now you're gonna see something and um yeah um so he's like what the fuck so carl takes jimmy to the living room and forces him to lie down on the sofa like face down on the sofa just lie down on your face on the sofa carl then comes up and shoots him twice in the back of the head good lord man okay with the 22 and kills him so carl then

goes outside and moves the tractor, which had been parked in front of their car. So like we got to move the tractor if we want to get the fuck out of here, right? It's at this point that now you got the Jeep, you got the Supersport, the Chevelle,

you got the Jeep, and you got a tractor all in the driveway. The driveway's crowded all of a sudden. It shouldn't be. It's full. So it's at that point that Mary comes home. Oh, no. Jerry's wife.

She pulls her car up into the driveway and she's like, what the hell is going? Must be people here. I don't know. You know, farm stuff. I see a tractor, whatever. So Carl sees her and jumps off the tractor and comes up behind her. And she had a paper bag of groceries she's carrying, as one does, right?

Carl comes up with a gun in her face and slaps the groceries out of her hand, which seems unnecessary. But yeah, so she's like, what the fuck? They said that she started whimpering at that point, obviously. She's like, what's happening right now? Frightened. Frightened.

Carl told her to shut up. Obviously, ordered her into the trailer there. And she can see that there's dead people all over the fucking place there. She they dumped her handbag out. They have her car keys. She's got perfume, her wallet with $1 inside. They take all that route in front of her and all that kind of shit. She's got a dollar.

That's what they're this is for. So it's at this moment when a pickup truck pulls in the driveway. This is like a clown car in this fucking place. People keep coming and coming and coming which is why murders spontaneous murders. Maybe not a good idea because you don't know who the fuck's going to show up like the people you're gonna have to kill you don't know the whole family shows up who knows right so uh two men pull up it's shoogie and aubrey that's shoogie the brother and aubrey the uncle who's 56 ned's younger brother okay they pull up and they don't know what the fuck's going on in there. They have no idea.

So they are, they're like hanging out in the truck laughing. They pull in and shut the car off and they're still sitting in the truck for a minute and finishing a conversation, listening to something funny on the radio. I don't know what the, they're just dying. What is it? 1973. Holy shit. That Bob Newhart's a riot. I don't know what they're doing. They got a 1973 holy shit that bob newhart's a riot i don't know what

they're doing they got a new heart eight track in there i'm fixing with the new ray stevens yeah that's what i mean who the hell knows what they got going on do you get it oh my god dude yeah that's that that would probably be more their their speed probably so either way they're in there carl gets mad that they're in the that they're in the truck and not coming into the house like he would like them to do. Sure, yeah. Okay, so he decides he's going to go out and get them. He's going to bait them into the trap. Yeah, they're going to just laugh forever.

Talk about impatience. He couldn't wait two minutes for these guys to walk into the trailer where you would have had so much easier of a time wrangling people. Yeah. Instead, they go out there. Carl grabs billy and he says let's go um they each they went on you know each side of the truck to the doors and they order the men out at gunpoint tell them to go into the trial into the uh into the trailer now while they're doing this when they open the door of the truck carl says why are you fucking laughing at me? You're laughing at me, aren't you? And they're like, who the fuck are you? What's going on?

And they're like, get out of here. They're fucking laughing at me. He's yelling at them and yelling at Billy saying they were laughing at him. They pulled in laughing. They had no idea who he was. They're having a good time, sir. He's got a couple of problems here, Carl, I would say. So, yeah, they do that.

He's got a couple of problems here, Carl, I would say. So, yeah, they do that. Shuggie and Aubrey, once they get in the trailer, they notice Mary is crying uncontrollably, obviously. Shuggie and Aubrey are ordered to sit down on the kitchen table and heads to the north bedroom where now, after this, okay, before this, Carl and George took Mary to the bathroom where they told Dungey to guard her. They kept her

in the bathroom and just said, guard her. Okay. After this, Wayne Coleman gets towels and heads to the bedroom while this is going on, to the north bedroom where Ned was. Shuggy, who has just turned 30 years old, was taken by Coleman to the

north bedroom where his father was dead already, and Coleman shoots him. Aubrey, the 56 year old uncle, is taken by Carl to the south bedroom where Jerry is, and he shoots Carl down there or he shoots Aubrey down there.

Okay. Aubrey got shot once with a.38 and Shugie got shot once with a.380. So we've got more guns now. More guns, yes. Well, there's four different calibers involved here. So it's pretty interesting. Now, okay, or four different guns we should say. Four different calibers involved here. So it's pretty interesting. Now, okay, or four different guns, we should say. Four different calibers.

Is it a.32, a.22, a.30? A.32,.22. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I forgot about the.32. All different types of guns. Yeah, all different shit here because they're all stolen from different places too. So now when they were found later, Aubrey's fingers, they were, Jerry and he were like touching hands like they were trying to like he was dying and something happened there now. Okay.

Yeah, this is this is fucking interesting. During this, Billy said that he heard several shots fired in a clicking noise in the room where Carl had taken had taken Aubrey there. So he said Carl came out of the bedroom real fast, grabbed a hold of my pistol. Uh, his was out of ammunition and then he went back in the bedroom. He was out of bullets. So he came out,

give me your gun and goes in there and shoots him. So after he heard several more shots, that's when Carl came out of the bedroom laughing. Oh God. And laughing hysterically and said, quote, that damn bastard begged for mercy oh my god and he was laughing at that so now what they do at this point while dungy is guarding mary by the

bathroom here because she's the only one who hasn't been shot here um they get all of their stuff they get the gun they get all the guns and clothes and whatever they want to steal. And they transfer all this shit, take it all out to Mary's car and they put it in Mary's car. Okay. Um, that's at that point. That's, um, that's Billy and Coleman, Billy and Wayne Coleman do all of that. When they come back, by the time they get back into the living room, Carl is basically slapping Mary around in the living room. He's beating her up and all this type of shit.

And he was what Billy called wrestling around with her when they got in there. He was beating her up, basically. So Mary, after they beat her up a little bit, Carl takes her to the kitchen table and rapes her. Of course he does. And then Wayne Coleman rapes her as well. Oh, my God. Yeah. So then at that point, they blindfold and gag Mary and throw her in the car with them.

They're going to take her with them. They jump in her car and they leave the the car with them. They're going to take her with them. They jump in her car and they take, they leave the Chevelle there. They take off with her car. It's got no gas in it. It's useless to them. So they drive several miles away

into a heavily wooded area. Oh God. Okay. At that point, they drag Mary out of the car by her hair and drag her into the woods. It's fucking horrible.

She's raped more by Carl. George Dungy jumps in. He rapes her as well. It's fucking horrible. At some point, they had to stop, by the way, and a couple of them had to go back to the trailer because Wayne Coleman left his wallet there. Wow. This fucking idiot left his wallet at the crime scene. Okay.

So they come back to the wooded area in two cars. One is Mary's car and the other is the Chevelle because they want to dump it in the woods. They're like, well, we shouldn't leave it there. That's not smart. dump it in the woods they're like well we shouldn't leave it there that's not smart so he said that um carl told coleman to take the stolen cars into the woods hide them wipe the fingerprints off especially the chevelle wipe that down leave it in the woods when they returned to mary's car um at that point billy said that she quote mrs Alday was fully undressed, leaning against the hood of the car. This was after they had tormented her.

He said at that point, Carl, quote, grabbed her by the wrist and threw her on the ground and then invited Billy to assault her as well. Oh, Jesus. The kid. So apparently Billy didn't. But I guess Dungy and Carl, they went after more, too, as well. So, yeah, she pleaded at that point to look to Carl because he seems to be the leader of this whole fucking thing to let her get dressed. But Carl wouldn't let her get dressed. Then Dungy walked her farther into the woods at this point.

Now, this point, this is the sickest fucking thing of all to me this is this is this is some btk it's too much it gets worse that's what i mean this is some weird btk shit now because now they have her instamatic camera her polaroid basically and they start taking pictures of her they start taking terror these terrified pictures of her begging for her life in her after she's been brutally horrified every fucking defiled in every way and her whole and her whole family's been murdered and they're threatening to kill her um eventually after they had their fun taking pictures of her those pictures will come back to haunt them later don't worry um they fucking horrible they make her lie on her stomach and

then shoot her in the back of the head and in the in the back once in the back that severed her spinal cord wow and then the other one was in her head so that both with a 22 so at that point they abandoned the chevelle in the woods uh near where mary's body was and they um they end up jumping in her car a blue and white chevy impala which will later be found abandoned in alabama so the the have we these are as far of the most terrible people we've ever encountered correct this is a shy this is i don't even know what to say of this shy yeah awkward yeah so shy and carl is an a1 fucking predator monster i mean he's got to be one of the worst people we've ever talked about he really i mean he's enjoying this too he's laughing this isn't yeah he's the whole thing he loves it this isn't something he has to do or something that he whatever this is like he's in one of them are

surviving now now they're literally uh lashing out at everything yeah that's what mean, it's it's crazy. So now, oh, my God, Barbara, who is Shuggie's wife, remember, she ends up going to the trailer, but no one answered. No cars are in sight. So she presumed that nobody was there. Nobody heard about and they all should be there. They're here every day. It's a farm. It's predictable. They call the state patrol. They call hospitals to see if anybody maybe they're somewhere. But they they're nowhere.

So then she returns with Bud all day and they come back at about they come back at about two thirty a.m. They look through the windows and can see the legs of people hanging off of beds. Yeah. And no one will answer the door, though. So Bud goes through the rear door into the kitchen, and first thing he sees is a beer can on the kitchen table. None of them drink beer. Nobody drinks.

Nobody drinks. So he's like, that's not fucking right. So, oh, my God. He arrives there. Like we said, he goes in the back door. He said, quote, the first thing I saw was a beer can sitting up on the bar and some ladies panties on the floor and some legs hanging off the bed. So I closed the door.

He said, it was definitely strange because this isn't the C this looks like there was a fucking teenage party here or something. This is what guns and roses were in here. Fucking after a gig. This isn't, this isn't like the, my family here.

So he summons the sheriff, Dan White, and together, let's say you know you're in a small town, Bud and the sheriff investigate together. May as well. Which, come on, Jesus Christ. They go through the trailer. Bring your fingerprinting kit, Bud. Bud, you know how to take fingerprints?

Nah, I'll teach you quick. It ain't that hard, actually. You get your flashlight, you roll on the linoleum. It's pretty neat, actually. You're going to like it. Your boot prints stand up. It's crazy. It's pretty good.

So they go through. They find everybody in the house. Audrey is found on a bed next to Jerry in one bedroom. There, Ned's body found in another another bedroom legs dangling over the side and uh chester shoogie was there as well uh jimmy all jimmy's body was found face down on the couch left arm slumped over the side um yeah it's it's pretty fucking crazy the sheriff dan white who came by the way so he can't he showed up at 245 in the morning. He and one deputy cover a 275 square mile county. Incredible.

That's insane. They said they're accustomed to calls in the middle of the night. So that's normal for him. So he put on his fucking cowboy hat and drove on out there. And he said, when I walked in there and you saw those bodies, you can't imagine how I felt. I can think. Maybe I felt. I can. I can think maybe I can. Not good. Not like eating breakfast.

Probably. I bet it was the worst day of your life, sir. Fuck your professional life. He said, I've had some bad shootings before, but what makes this the worst case is the way it was done. We've had people who are of a wild nature and don't act like a human being. But in this case, you couldn't compare them. You couldn't compare them to a bunch of dogs. So the dogs are better.

So sometimes I see this all the time. Is that what he's saying? We've always had people who are of a wild. Yeah, I've had some bad shootings before. But what makes this one worse is the way it was done. We've always had some people who are of a wild nature and don't act like a human being but in this case you couldn't compare them to a bunch of dogs saying they were lower than dogs yeah of less civilized civilization worse this one was like worse than a dog so he said also the aldeys were old friends of his as well that sucks

too he said i've known them all since before they were grown i've known their mothers and fathers um he said he looked for clues but all he could find was beer cans damn it he said kitchen cabinets were wide open but nothing appeared to be missing um he went in found the bodies and uh he said no signs of a struggle. It looked like everybody kind of went along with shit now. Now, the wounds here, five of Ned's bullet wounds were located close together on the side of his head. So he just pop, pop, pop, pop, which had been wrapped in a jacket when he was shot. So they shot him a couple times, wrapped a jacket around him, and then shot him a couple more times, I guess, to stem some blood flow. Powder burns around the wound suggested the bullets were fired from, obviously, close range.

They also said that another here, Jerry, had been shot four times in a tight pattern in the back of the head with a .22 caliber gun. Jesus, they were making sure. They said any of the four slugs could have killed him. Aubrey here was shot

once in the back of the head with a 38 so he only got shot once yeah that's that's fucking crazy Jimmy was shot twice in the back of the head from close range bullet fragments of undetermined caliber were removed from his brain and neck Shuggie was shot once through the right ear with a 380 caliber here at close range.

His head had been wrapped in a towel and powder burns were found on the towel. So they wrapped the towel first and then shot him. What is that about? Seems like they shot the other guy and tried to wrap him up and realized, oh shit, blood comes out quick. We got to wrap it first and then shoot.

So it seems like they were learning. They said, but not around the bullet wound, which was odd. I don't understand that. Maybe the towel got moved around. But at this point, they don't know where the fuck Mary is. Mary's missing. They don't know where she is. They can't find her.

They think she's been kidnapped and they're searching for her like crazy. It's a big hunt for Mary. That's it. So they said their theory is that she'd been followed home after leaving work. She got followed home from town and was accosted in the trailer. And then as the men showed up, they were shot as they came in. That's what they think. And then they took her with them. The sheriff's office said that they reported a car with a Pennsylvania license tag found in the area there.

Same car reported stolen in Pennsylvania. Also, four suspicious-looking persons have been seen the day before riding around Seminole County in a Pennsylvania license plate-having car. So, yes. And at this point, the 1970 Chevy Impala hardtop with license plate MIY519 is still missing. That's Mary's car. So they're taking fingerprints all over the place out of the trailer, out of the stolen car, figuring out what they could find. They then drove. Obviously, we told you what happened to Mary here.

Apparently, Carl initially, when they shot Mary, by the way, initially, Carl handed Coleman the pistol to do it. But Dungy said, what about me? Ew. So then he said, Coleman shrugged his shoulders like, I don't care, and then handed the gun to Dungy. And then Dungy told her, this is fucking horrible. He told her that I'm going to let you go. You get running and then shot her in the back of the head she took like three steps and he shot her in the back of

the head so he made her think she was gonna get away and then killed her which is they're just doing everything as horribly as you can possibly fucking do it like torture just putting extra stank on everything here so jesus christ they said that after dungy shot her he reached down and took her timex watch off of her wrist and put it in his pocket let me take this 20 watch that'll do it timex you son of a bitch jesus christ uh she'd been shot with a 22 and obviously repeatedly raped in every possible way so fuck man this is goddamn horrible they said when they first found her as well she was in an open field covered with fire ants oh shit dude this is just as bad as it can be so obviously people in this town freak the fuck out over this this is everybody's worst nightmare

this is you're on your farm minding your own business and escape crazy people from Baltimore. Come and murder your whole fucking family and rape. It's nuts. This whole thing is crazy. Problem is her mom. Mary's mom is an older woman here. Okay. She's an older woman and they had decided she's also ill and she has heart problems.

She's diabetic. They decided not has heart problems, she's diabetic. They decided not to tell her what happened to Mary. They're going to have to tell her she's dead, but they're not going to tell her how it happened. They decide to tell Mary that she, guys broke in, she wasn't looking, they shot her in the head, she never even saw it coming, she died instantly. Boom. Terrible tragedy, but she didn't suffer yeah problem is a neighbor didn't know they were doing that oh you dick and a neighbor came over and started saying it's a terrible thing what they did to your girl and all this type of shit and she said well what

do you mean and then the neighbor told her everything that happened well i mean the rape the rape was horrible yeah it's a's a small town. Terrible stuff. Why would you fucking jerk? Shut up. The cops had told everybody knows about it and except for her mom. And so this guy told all the details, including that she'd been the last to die. She had to witness murders herself. She got raped. She got found nude and raped and shot in the back of the head.

nude and raped and shot in the back of the head she immediately say three or four of those things and then see the look on that woman's face and be like i mean maybe they're wrong well especially the fact that you're killing her because within a few hours she sank into a diabetic coma and had a heart attack and died no no way dead dead within hours literally within hours she slipped into a diabetic coma almost immediately and had a heart attack and died dead that guy's gotta feel oh god jesus christ i killed her um i murdered a woman today wow that's gotta be a powerful feeling i killed a woman with my words let's would you go home feeling powerful like obviously you'd feel terrible but at the same time you go is this a power i have can i am i powerful would he just be a mute now for there's that guy that once killed a woman with

his words he doesn't talk that tells you turned him into a mute you know what that teaches you mind your own fucking business that's what that teaches you? Mind your own fucking business. That's what that teaches you. Shut the fuck up. Mind your own goddamn business. Give your condolences and leave. Don't try to sit around. Oh, it's terrible.

Why would you sit around? It's terrible how they raped your girl like that. Why would you talk to someone like that? Why would you do that? I can't believe they waited for her, killed her last. That's crazy. Don't you think so? Isn't that crazy?

You son of a bitch. I mean, they basically tortured her killed her last that's crazy don't you think so isn't that crazy son of a bitch i mean they basically tortured her right i mean they dread they blindfolded her gagged her drove right in the last the final indignity to tell her she was free and then shoot her in the head it was terrible right are you you slip are you hello hello smacking her in the face i said she i said indignity shit somebody get like a cookie or a Snickers bar or some shit. I don't know what's happening. So this is fucking crazy. I get her like a Capri Sun or something. I don't know.

That guy's an asshole. That's what that guy is. He's a huge asshole. How do you not see any visceral reaction at all and not just go, I realize it's too early. I'm sorry. I am discussing this with an ill old woman. Right. With a very ill woman.

That just happened yesterday. She's clutching her chest already and you're like, did you hear that part? She's trying to breathe. Hold to hold on let me tell you more as she's collapsing to the ground the fucking asshole man what do you think made him do this wake up i bet she felt a lot of pain right hey i'm talking to you hey i'm talking to you that's a weird time to take a nap man jesus she's just rude i went to her house and she's just a rude lady i tell you what she died right in front of me trying to tell her something fucking asshole i get that he's just being folksy but no that's that's there's a difference between jesus christ why would you want to talk

about that with somebody i don't know you'd bring up anything else with that right anything else i mean it's pretty today sky looks nice like anything fucking anything man i heard they sold stole a super sport you seen one of them jesus christ fucking fast tell you what that hank aaron's creeping up on the home run record ain't he i don't know like something right anything else literally anything holy shit so obviously people are freaked out in town um especially here's a couple of people we'll give some quotes here the gulf service station operator the gas station guy who owns a gas station lw jernigan he said six murders in donaldsonville georgia that's something that happens in california

not a little town like this it's unbelievable that's something like that charles manson doing he said quote uh this is also here uh this is E.C. Bridges. Does anybody have a real first name? L.W. Jernigan, E.C. Bridges. Anybody. Just my fucking kingdom for a first name in this town. And it's letters that don't even go together. L.W. E.C. None of those flow.

None of them flow off the tongue here. So, Jesus. E.C. Bridges is a county tax collector, and he says, I don't believe the Aldays had an enemy in the world. They were always hard workers in a close-knit family and just plain good folk. Okay. Just plain good folk. The obvious shit that these people spew. We get it.

They didn't deserve it. Really? I would have thought they really deserved it. Did they fucking? What were they doing before this? Kidnapping babies and harvesting their brains to have ceremonies? Like, what were they doing? Exactly.

I can't believe this would happen. Yeah, we know. If you don't have anything else to say, shut the fuck up. Yeah, just go man crazy right just go crazy shake your head what do you think of it crazy yeah it's crazy he said years ago that boy ned that boy he's 62 62 years old that boy ned so how old is he he has nine kids sir that boy ned just started out on his own with nothing. He didn't have anything, but he kept on farming and buying land until they had over 500 acres.

Yeah. They said that they were obviously six of their family has been murdered here. Sheriff Dan White, he's the guy who found them. He said they were as good as folks as they come. They were church-going, hard-working people. They didn't drink beer, wine, or whiskey. They were teetotalers. They did drink rubbing alcohol at night, though, just to get a buzz, but that's a whole other issue.

They did lots of cocaine. That's what they was doing, just tons of cocaine. Sorry, I don't mean to make fun of the victims, but it's mainly him I'm making fun of. We get it. they didn't drink two of them yeah i mean they did they did needle drugs i ain't gonna lie but you know didn't drink it didn't drink a drop i'll tell you what so uh clyde ernest his last name is ernest so you know what he's about he's great clyde ernest he has a farm several miles from where they the Alday's farm was. He said that, quote, all of the neighbors are going to work to get their crops in for the rest of the families.

All of us are so close. So basically all the – We're going to keep their shit going? We're going to farm because the whole farm family got wiped out. So we're going to get their crops in so they can be sold for the rest of the family so they will have some money because he said everybody's so close we'll all just chip in and work on their stuff too which is very nice i would say so not bad at all um earnest also said here that quote it's just the worst thing that ever happened in seminole county County. There you go.

Another neighbor, Buddy Chance. Jesus Christ, man. But they all have something funny about their name. This is crazy. What is happening down here? He's another farmer who lives near the property, and he said the whole community shocked. We didn't expect it. If that doesn't shock you, I'm worried about you. Yeah, if he's like, I mean, families get slaughtered, you know, and he just like shrugs his shoulders and six people lights a cigarette, starts flipping a nickel.

He said they were known all over Seminole County. We worked right here among them and everybody helped one another. They had been out planting all day yesterday it's may um so here's a wife and secretary of the sheriff by the way the sheriff's wife is his secretary at the police station this is dan's wife marguerite she says some maniac or crazy man must have been on the loose yeah you think good answer lady jesus christ she said that mary worked in the bank in bainbridge but quit because she was afraid of driving back and forth from donaldsonville so she'd been working recently at the department of family and children's service where one of ned's daughters uh mrs w h miller jr another fucking guy. W.H.? What is that?

Why doesn't she have a name? Mrs. W.H.? Yeah, back then they used to do that all the time. They just Mrs. the husband. But Mrs. W.H. He doesn't even have a name. So she can have one if he doesn't want one. How's that?

Jesus Christ. I guess one of Ned's daughters, who is Mrs. W.H. Miller Jr., is the county welfare director. Okay. So Cecil Lunsford, vice president of the Merchants and Farmers Bank, said it's just a tragedy. They were all very respected. And he also said, quote, they were outstanding farmers. Everybody's so impressed with their farmers. They're so impressed with them they're so impressed with them another

oh my god another donaldson citizen rc baxley what the fuck is happening oh rc rc l dubs fucking l wh there's too many it's very confusing holy shit rc baxley said quote it's one of the worst things i've ever heard of ned was a good fellow and i'd known him more than 25 years he told lots of jokes but they were mostly on himself ned's boys always worked hard um i hope they get whoever did it i just hope they get him him you guys m um by the way okay yeah get him i just hope they get him like there's a madman on the loose six people are dead pretty good chance it's more than one person it's the organization of that even richard speck lost count of nurses you know what i mean that's why some lived because he lost count of them and there was like nine of them there's seven six people involved here so yeah too many people so yeah people are freaked out uh they called it the the seminal the sheriff called it the biggest

deliberately planned homicide in georgia i don't know what that means has there been accidental homicides that were more accidentally killed 45 people jesus christ um so they said special agents from the state department of investigation the state department of investigation, the state department of investigation, not the state department were rushed from Atlanta to take part in the investigation. They're like, they have two officers. We need to get the fuck. This is a slaughter. We need to get down there. Dr. Larry Howard, a man with a first name because he runs the state crime lab.

So you have to have a name when you do that. Because he runs the state crime lab, so you have to have a name when you do that. He was still performing autopsies the next day, and he said he's never heard of a case in the state of Georgia ever that involved murdering so many members of one family. He said that's – then they said it was the biggest deliberately planned homicide ever. The sheriff said some of the drawers in the trailer were pulled open, but there's no evidence a struggle took place. he said all the men had been shot in the head the towels wrapped around the hunting jacket wrapped around the final tally is yeah Ned four

times the 22 twice with a 32 and once with a bullet that passed through his body which can't be found so he ended up being shot seven times that they said that they found that four different weapons were used in the slayings. Like we said, a 22, a 32, a 38 and a three 80.

And he was also said there's indication that a 22 caliber pistol is missing from the trailer where the bodies of the five people were found. They called them execution style murders of a very respectable family. The coroner said, we've never had anything like this happen in this part of the state. They call in some extra state patrolmen to guard the trailer around the clock. And then finally, the FBI is called in to help investigate as well, because they think they might be they don't know who did it and they might have absconded into another state. So May 17th, 1973, the town is shut down for their funeral literally shut down the mayor called for a day of mourning and the community responded by closing all the stores downtown they shut the

imagine going in wherever you live everybody and going some people died everybody shut your stores for the day they would fucking stab you in the face nobody would do that that's wow um this is to have the funeral the whole town just did it um the streets were deserted they said the only thing people were doing was going to the funeral they said pretty much everybody in town was at the funeral every single person hundreds of others from surrounding counties as well uh the church they they came to the Spring Creek Baptist Church, which Ned helped build, by the way. Of course, of course he did.

Such a nice guy where they yeah. And also all the men and Mary also were officers of the church and teachers in Sunday school as well. And also Shuggie and Barbara and Jerry and Mary had been married there as well. And also Shuggie and Barbara and Jerry and Mary had been married there as well. So they said the church was not equipped to handle six full sized coffins and hundreds of people in attendance.

So they had the services on the cemetery grounds so they could accommodate everybody that was there. They said so many floral arrangements were delivered that flowers were stacked on top of flowers around the coffins and the graves. There's just so many flowers they couldn't even deal with them all.

People, Jimmy Carter, who at the time was the governor of Georgia and soon to be president of the United States, his mother came to the funeral. She knew the all days. She had met them. She knew the all days and came. She was at the she's also in court later as well. So, yeah. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car

to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad- free right now by joining wondery plus now about that same time this is the same day this happens all right

they said well right after the murder billy says later on they fled to alabama and stole another car because the alde vehicle broke down so they stole that car and drove to West Virginia. Okay. It went back up north. They went back up north. Yeah. They went back up north. They were driving.

Apparently they held up a country store in West Virginia and there was a West for a road block where they were looking for them. They're blocking off roads everywhere looking for them after they did an armed robbery. where they were looking for them. They were blocking off roads everywhere looking for them after they did an armed robbery. And apparently when they saw that, they got $3,000 from that and several pistols and rifles

they got from the store. From the holdup? From the holdup. Apparently when they saw the roadblock up ahead, there was a few cars, they stopped and just fucking took off. They just jetted out of the car,

all four of them. They took off. They ran. George Dungy was captured first he's the oldest so probably the slowest i assume he got caught first and the actual slowest mentally right and he's definitely yeah he's low iq here so they abandon the car they go um in the car they found several weapons and seven hundred dollars in the car that they ran away from. I don't know if they forgot about that or what. They end up the other three end up going to a they end up being found by bloodhounds the next day asleep in like hiding in like a coal area, like in a mine under a rock thing.

They were hiding and a bloodhounds found them. a mine under a rock thing they were hiding and a bloodhounds found them so um they are found and they're brought back to georgia but they're not going to be jailed in seminole county because they're literally scared the state is scared they'll be murdered and if they bring them to seminole for sure what they're afraid that people will bum like an old west style bum rush the jail pull them out and murder them so the uh sheriff said everybody's blood is boiling there's not a doubt in my mind that lynching crossed the mind of everyone in the county. So the word lynching is said several times during this, which is just a little disturbing. They're a little free with that word. A little free with that after what you've all done down there.

So George is the first one captured, like we said and um they sat him down he immediately told everything he's for two hours he told him all about rapes and murders and he said that he'd been unable to sleep since quote what we had done to that woman and that only billy isaacs was innocent of rape and murder he told the cops bill Billy didn't do shit except for be with us. He didn't shoot anybody or rape anybody. But ballistics showed that four guns were used, but then we end up finding out later on that he took Carl. Carl took Billy's gun and used that.

So that's how that worked. Now, Wayne Coleman, he's a little different. Okay. Dungy had a certain level of remorse and all that sort of thing. Coleman, they said he seemed to have a good time recounting what happened to the all day family. It was like,

shit. Yeah, we did it. That's right. He, this is from the court document quote. He boasted that he personally killed every victim proud of any level of cruelty and brutality,

smiling as he told law enforcement the tragic end of six lives does he just like does he has to he's been in prison i mean he's seen what prison is i guess so and um also they said that dungy had a clearer remembrance of details and timing colman was very fuzzy so much so that he asked officers if alabama was part of georgia and if louisiana was a county in mississippi oh boy because they were like you drove here to drive through louisiana he's like is that a county in mississippi they're like oh god what motherfucker are you kidding me you're 26 years old you dipshit and. And also wondering if, what was it, if Alabama was a part of Georgia. I mean, same thing, but either way.

I mean, they together are part of something bigger. But side by side, no. No. No. So Billy's account is pretty similar to George's in so far as like he agreed with this in the series sequence of events. This person came home and this person came home and this person came home. Billy and George have it all lined up here. Carl refused to say shit.

They asked him about it and they said, tell us about that day. What happened, Carl? And all he would say would say is quote it was a pretty may day oh boy it wouldn't say shit other than that so just a nice day that's all i remember real nice day let's find some evidence what do they have here just to make sure they have these guys well carl isaac's fingerprints are found in a filing cabinet in the bedroom where the bodies of Jerry and Aubrey all day were found. And, yeah, that's not good. Prints also found on the door of Mary's car, which was discovered, obviously, after they found her. Billy Isaac's prints were also found in the car.

Carl Isaac's prints were found on a stolen car that was ditched near the body. That's the Chevelle. Prints belonging to Isaac's and Coleman were found in the car as well. Nine of the fingerprints found at the three locations were identified by Campbell not Wayne Campbell, that's the fingerprint guy, as belonging to Carl Isaacs.

Mary Alday's co-workers identified her Timex watch that Dungy stole as hers. Shuggy's wife Barbara identified a briefcase belonging to her husband that contained his driver's license, fishing license and a dental appointment card. They had that in their possession as well. So they're finally they're returned to be arraigned in Seminole County. They each face six counts of murder, as well as the felony charges of rape, kidnapping, armed robbery, and theft. Grand theft. So now, by the way, wait till you hear

what Carl has to say about this. It's infuriating. It's fucking infuriating. So while they were being taken in in court, there's people outside yelling, fry them, fry them. There's suggestions to form a lynch mob and go take them away from the cops and all this type of shit um they're placed in four separate jails miles apart as well not even in the same jail not in the same jail so you'd at least have to break it up maybe we can maybe we can you know maybe if they all come for one at least we can like help the i don't know either way um bud all day the one who found everybody, he said later on, quote, every day I regret that the killers were not taken back to the trailer and lynched right there. Then we could have gotten justice.

You mean on the same ground? On the same ground. Yeah. Oh, boy. A little more reaction. Mrs. Wyatt Jones, again, no first name for her. She runs a country star store. She said she remembered seeing the the car that they were looking for on Sunday and Monday.

So the day before and the day of, she said they came in about one thirty Sunday afternoon. It was after church and bought some gas. The one with the long hair was driving. That's Carl. He put in the gas because I was busy with something else. Monday they came back about 10 o'clock and bought a package of cigarettes and some drinks. When I saw their picture on television, I figured

they must be the ones. I went to the sheriff's office, looked at the car, and it was it. I hardly slept a wink since then. It could have been me. Also, you could have... Don't make this about you, lady. Wow. I hardly slept a wink since then. It could have been me. Also, you could have. Don't make this about you, lady. Wow. I thought she was going to say, if I only could have seen something, I could have saved six lives.

She said, it could have been me. God damn it. Could have been a real tragedy. Could have been me. Holy shit. Now, Richard Miller, the kid from Pennsylvania with the Chevelle, his his family's going what about our kid what about him how about that they we discovered the car you know what the fuck basically there's eyewitnesses who gave accounts of richard chasing four men in a car and they didn't know what the hell happened so um finally uh following several hours of negotiation in which Wayne Coleman was assured that nothing he said or did could be used against him if he gave it up on this point, he agreed to return to Pennsylvania to aid in recovering Richard's body.

They killed him. Shortly after his arraignment, he was taken by plane to Maryland, where he laughingly told authorities that he had pulled the trigger himself on Richard. He said, quote, I didn't want the others to have all the fun. Oh, my God. He's shy. He's a real shy, shy, retiring type. around encircling routes around the Pennsylvania-Maryland border, eventually convincing them, basically, he knew what happened,

but he just had no geographical sense whatsoever and has no clue what the fuck he's doing. So they took him back to Georgia. He has no idea where the body is. No. So they can't find the body. So once they get back down to Georgia, they're shocked to find Carl is willing to help. He said, I'll help you find the body. I'll give you a run body. Give you a run.

More more shit to brag about. So he is transported to Pennsylvania. Same thing. Utterly no, no remorse whatsoever. But they said he had a nearly photographic memory of landmarks and where he had traveled. Carl's not stupid. That's the thing. Carl's a really smart guy, as we'll get into.

And it's really fucking annoying that he's smart and he did this. So they said he's really good. He knows what he's doing. Not he's really good. They said he easily directed the police on the exact route they had taken from which rich when Richard Miller had taken pursuit and to what they they kidnapped him. They said they went to a small town of Flintstone, Maryland, where they gave the police instructions of where to find Richard's body. He said he didn't want to accompany them to discover them. He just gave directions.

Said, you got this. So they found him exactly where Carl said he would be on a logging road and to the left of a debris strewn trash dump. That's nice. They tied his hands behind his back, forced him to his knees, and then argued over who would be the one who gets to kill him. Oh, my God. He's tied up on his knees and they're going, no, I get to kill him. No, you do. No, me.

Fuck, that's bullshit. I'm the one who gets to kill him. They're arguing over it. This is over him going, please don't kill me. You know what I mean? He was then shot in the back of the head and left there. Yep. He said that Isaac's here.

Carl was real. He didn't give a shit. He goes, the second Richard Miller approached us, he was a dead man. That's what he said. Should have minded his own fucking business. Yeah. What does Mama Isaac's have to say about all this? Love to carl wayne and billy's mom who what is her fucking deal she said quote everybody tried to talk to them boys and they would stand there and laugh at them when they were kids telling them not to cut school and not

to do any of that her name's betty like we said and um she she said that her sons they haven't talked with her she said that her sons lacked respect for their family and quote began to steal from me and break into homes and I was constantly going to court so yeah she said there may be some who criticized us for what our children have apparently done but they don't know what we had to live with. You created that. You did. You created it. You did that. Kid, this isn't fucking problem child.

Kids don't come out of the womb evil. That's the thing. No. You have to create a 14-year-old who does this shit. That's your shit parenting and your shit supervision. And everybody, if you got nine kids and one of them is a dipshit. That happens. Sometimes the kid's a dip. When all your kids suck, you got nine kids and one of them is a dipshit, that happens. Sometimes the kid's a dipshit. When all your

kids suck, you got a problem. All of them are murderers? That's an issue. No one's judging if people have one shitty kid because there's plenty of people who have three great kids and one shitty one or five great kids and one shitty one or eight great kids and one shitty one. But if

all your kids are shitty, you did something wrong. You did something wrong you got you know yeah you did something wrong um they said at one point they had broken out of the when they first broke out of the prison camp before they went on this run she recalled on that day that the three of them had driven to her house she said that they just drove through her front yard and quote didn't even stop they almost ran us down before we go take off let me take a quick run by and try to run my mother over with the car and then we'll keep going what do you say let's try that um he then said she then said i'm glad they didn't get shot but they should get punished well no shit so where was the phone call to the police about that nope nope well i'm gonna

call the cops on my boys and i gotta deal deal with them. I'll be in court again. They were supposed to be in jail. There they are. So Carl's trial is going to be first. Okay. Because he's the ringleader. They want him first. Billy makes a deal with prosecutors. His brother makes a deal with prosecutors because he's a fucking minor. He's 15.

He said that because they said basically he's ineligible for the death penalty anyway due to his age. So they're saying that, you know, he could be a good witness. Fuck it. So rather than going to trial, Billy pleads guilty for burglary and car theft. That's what he pleads guilty to. And he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off, two 20-year terms.

So 40 years he gets yeah for that okay carl isaacs here's his trial jury is five are seven women five men okay this is how small they needed to change the venue okay normally in a small town like this they changed the venue. Started at 930 in the morning, the trial, December 31st, 1974, New Year's Eve. Okay. The judge overseeing this case is Judge Walter Gere, G-E-E-R. The special prosecutor prosecuting the case is Peter Gere, G-E-E-R. He is Judge Walter's nephew. Of course he is course he is oh by the way also a good friend of ned's of course okay the judge and the prosecuting attorney can't be related they can't be they can't be they can't be a fucking nephew no that's that's crazy on the same team

that's what i mean they can't be family you can't expect that to be. You can't expect a judge to be fair to somebody. I get that people do try cases in front of them, but you can't do this. This is too much. So not only that, he knew all the other people. The judge had fished with them before, been a guest in their home. and the prosecutor was more than eager to prosecute the men who wanted to kill him, basically, who killed their friends there. So they seat the jury in a day and it's a pretty fast trial. They bring up Bud to talk about finding the bodies. They bring up the sheriff. They bring up the coroner. They bring up all the science people, the witnesses that saw them the day before, all that kind of shit. Then they bring out their star witness,y isaacs oh boy billy takes the stand

you know the rest of the family the all-day family's right there next to him staring at him hating his guts uh he's on the stand and he recounts meeting up with carl uh with colman and with dungy he says that george dungy had of basically he said George had prolonged the torture inflicted on Mary there. He was the one who prolonged that he was playing around with her. Basically, they said that. Wow. Billy's testimony that Carl, after robbing them, asked if Jerry was married to which Jerry responded truthfully, but told him there's no need to wait for his wife because she never had more than a dollar or two with her. So there's that, which makes the family go, oh, Jesus Christ, if only that happened.

He said upon seeing a look in Carl's eye, did Jerry realize he'd made a grave mistake and begged the Isaacs not to hurt her? He's like, why did I tell him that? Holy shit. Isaac's not to hurt her. He's like, why'd I tell him that? Holy shit. So according to Billy, the reason they didn't depart the trailer immediately after killing Ned and Jerry was solely to wait for Mary,

who they were, whom Carl wanted to rape and also, you know, see if she had any money. So that's what she said. Billy also says that when Carl had gone to kill Aubrey, um, while Wayne Coleman was killing Shuggy, that's when the gun had clicked and he grabbed Billy's pistol and came in and then came out and said

that damn bastard begged for mercy and was laughing. So then when they cross-examine him, obviously, they said he's a little squirmier. He's a kid, so he's not a great witness here. At one point, the defense attorney shouted a question at Billy and the judge warned him don't raise your voice at this witness one more time don't you shout at this little baby who witnessed some horrible shit wow that's amazing so they also they found out Billy said that they had weed with them when they left Maryland but that they didn't have any left by the time they got to the all-day home Cause the defense was trying to say like,

well, you guys all fucked up. Maybe you were stoned. They're like, Nope, Nope, we weren't. So,

um, they said that, uh, uh, Billy also said that Carl had threatened him while they were in jail in neighboring Randolph County awaiting trial. Billy said that during an argument, he told Carl,

at least I didn't. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay. Oh boy. Okay. Um, at least I didn't. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay. Oh, boy. Okay. I have to say this. It's just, I'll just, it's not me saying it.

This is a goddamn, this is Billy saying it. Quote, at least I didn't have four colored men make me into a homosexual at the Maryland State Penitentiary. That's what he told Billy during an argument. And then Billy threatened to kill her carl threatened to kill billy over that so they arrest the prosecution case after 21 witnesses the defense calls zero witnesses not one not one they just basically did everything on their cross of what they did and they had no witnesses to call who they gonna call fucking carl he's gonna be a terrible witness.

Don't bring him up there. So maybe his mom. Well, that's for sentencing though. That's for mitigation, I guess. So the verdict comes in after 68 minutes of deliberation, which I don't even know if that's enough time

to fill out the paperwork for six murders. 68 minutes. 68 minutes of deliberation. The jury comes back unsurprisingly guilty of everything for Carl. The jury comes back, unsurprisingly, guilty of everything for Carl. Murders, rapes, assaults, robberies,

you name it. The whole deal. Sentencing comes up and the prosecutor stresses that it's the jury's duty to protect the citizens of Seminole County from the likes of Carl Isaacs. And the only way to be absolutely certain that he could never commit such a crime again

was to impose the death penalty upon him. While this is going on, Carl just yawns and looks around and he acts real bored by the whole thing. So the jury has to deliberate over a sentence. They come back after 38 minutes. They have the sentence ready. Not a lot of time to deliberate.

Thanks. Yeah. After 38 minutes, they have a sentence ready. Not a lot of time to deliberate. Yeah. They say, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for Carl. Yeah. Yeah. Which, Jesus Christ, someone needs to at least make him hold a fork and stick it in a socket or something. We need to get rid of this guy.

I don't care how it happens, but this guy sucks. Oh, it gets worse. Boy, wait till you hear his interview in a minute. So next up is George Dungy. His trial begins nine days later, 58 minutes after the jury. They only deliberate for 58 minutes. It's pretty much the same trial, same witnesses, everything like that. They come in with guilty on all counts. Dungy's attorney offers an eloquent plea for his life.

He argues against the death penalty, saying it's cruel and all this and you shouldn't do it with this guy and he's slow and everything else. Jury deliberated for less than two hours before saying, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for you, too. Wayne Coleman up next. His was a three day trial that ended with guilty on everything here. It goes to the jury for sentencing. They deliberate 50 minutes. They're getting quicker.

Wow. More efficient. 50 minutes. Yeah. More efficient here. Different juries, too. They said he was fidgety the whole time whole time too in his chair and everything like that yeah the judge after the judge reads it and pronounces the sentence you sir may fuck off

death penalty for you too as he's being led away he smiles broadly and says thanks judge and he leaves not in a mean way not in an angry way like, thanks for being here. Appreciate your time, man. I know you got other shit to do. You put together a hell of a spread at this barbecue. Thanks, judge. I gotta go now. So they're all getting the death penalty. Yeah.

Allegedly. Now, 1974, Carl does an interview. Okay. Now. With who? Charles Postel. He's a guy who will write a book later on. He did like 2,000 hours of interviewing with Carl.

Imagine hanging out with Carl for 2,000 hours. Oh, boy. He's not like a TV journalist or newspaper guy. He just wants to talk. No, no. He's a journalist, and then he wants to write a book about him, too. Okay. All right.

So this guy, he says, quote, Carl Isaacs told me people should have goals. And his goal was to kill a thousand people. Oh, boy. He said, if I could do that, I would have felt like I had a successful life. That's what he told him. Yeah. He said that he spent more than 2000 hours interviewing him. And he said, quote, he's told me a million times how much

he loves me how I was the only man he ever trusted but then in the next breath he would say I know I would kill you if I ever got the chance he's absolutely incorrigible he said he said he's one of the also one of the most interesting killers in America by the way

Carl claims to have killed way more people than this like Like dozens of people he says he killed, which what would stop him? I mean, honestly, if he kills these people so quickly and easily, he didn't even make a big deal out of it. You know, he's probably exaggerating, but I bet he's killed more than just them. So this he's a writer from the Albany Herald, by the way, this guy and they do all of this shit. He really wants to be famous, Carl, more than anything. He claims that on the first anniversary of the Alday murders, and the ones since then, or this is the first one, he'll do it in the future.

He would send a note to Wayne Coleman, who's on death row down the hall, a note wishing him a happy anniversary. He goes, I'll send him an anniversary. It's our anniversary. He said his backup plan, if he couldn't kill 1,000 people, because you got to have a backup plan if that's your goal. It's a high lofty goal. Not easy. It's like saying I want to play in the NBA. Well, what if that doesn't work out?

What's your backup? His backup, he wanted to be a practicing attorney. So either one, either kill 1,000 people or go to law school i can't decide one of the other the most prolific killer in american history or you know lawyer would be good to get some statutes reversed um he did say that um he said this is hilarious in a just a throwaway line he goes yeah i would have liked that he goes but the bar would never accept me well not now not now dipshit yeah he threatened his younger brother um saying uh billy he's basically said billy quote would never live to

hit the streets again he said if both of them were free, Billy would be the first person he'd kill. Yep. He said that he loved being a murderer. He said, quote, I'd like to get out and kill more of them. This is talking about the all days. He said they represent the type of society I don't like. I don't feel bad. The only thing the all days ever did, the only thing the all days ever did that stood out was getting killed by me. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. That's what he said.

He then said, quote, I had never seen them before May 14th, but I didn't like them. Working people just don't do a thing for me. They were just farmers, just beef eaters. The only thing they ever did was get killed by me. I don't blame the all days if they want revenge. I'd feel the same way. But then again, I'd like to get out and kill more of them. I don't understand.

What's the point of saying that? I don't get it. Because he's trying to, I don't know. He doesn't know those people. He's saying this after the fact. He never met them ever. Well, they testified against him to say he's a bad guy. But you killed their whole family.

What the fuck do you expect? Do you expect him to come out and be on your side so here's what he said in his own words this is billy's description of the murder or not billy's carl's description we went into the trailer about four o'clock we were after money we found about 70 or 75 dollars we had just came out to the trailer headed toward the car when the first two men pulled up. I don't know what made me decide to kill him. More or less, we didn't want to go to prison. Seeing they had seen us doing what we did, they could identify us. So rather than tie him up and just leave him there, we figured that they couldn't send us back to prison if they couldn't talk.

Wow. I took the next oldest one to the south bedroom and Wayne took the other one to the north bedroom. Both of them were shot. I started coming out of the bedroom down the hall and Billy told me that someone else was outside. I walked into the kitchen and looked out of the window and there was a pickup truck out there. There was two men in it. We brought them into the trailer. Wayne shook them down. I took one of them into the south bedroom. Wayne took one of them into the north bedroom. Both of them were shot. All four of us were standing in the kitchen and we heard a tractor pull up in the driveway.

Wayne looked out the window, just waiting for the man to come in the door. He opened the door and Wayne told him to come in. We shook him down and told him to lay down on the sofa in the living room. Billy shot him. Now he's saying Billy shot him because he's trying to ensnare Billy into this whole thing. I went out and was starting to move the tractor when Mary Alday pulled up. I jumped off the tractor. I took her in the trailer and put her pocketbook on the table. I told Wayne and Billy to transfer the guns from our car to her car. When they were gone, I raped Mary Allday.

Jesus Christ. While I was doing that, Wayne came in. He raped her. We tied her up and all four of us went back to the car. George and I rode in Mary Allday's car with her. Wayne and Billy drove in our car. We drove about seven miles up the road to a wooded area. Mary Allday was raped again by me, Wayne, and George.

Then she was shot by George. So, yeah, he said that Mary, he said he had respect for Mary. She's the only one he had any respect for because she's the only one who put up a fight. He said, quote, the rest of them just lay down and got shot. Yep. That's what he said. He said, um, Jesus Christ.

Uh, this is fucking crazy. He said that he also found prison. He has a lot of sympathy for himself. He said, I feel bad for me. And he said, prison is a quote and a front to his humanity. What?

This fucking guy is wow. He said that humanity, well, being locked up keeps him out from being out in the world and doing something to ease the hate that he had within him. He goes, how am I supposed to do anything in here? He said, prison's full of peril for me. He said there's two groups of people in the prison that want him dead, one of whom had allegedly put up a $5,000 bounty on his head. Yeah. He said, this is from the article here,

so deep was his self-pity and utter lack of self-awareness that he believed the surviving All Day family should feel sorry for him as he was on death row. Prisons, he felt, shouldn't make people suffer so much before they were put to death, and the public should have more compassion. This motherfucker is wild, man. We all...

Just hang in there man it's almost over holy shit now at this point mama isaac's is back betty is calling for his execution now saying that his mom his mom is now saying maybe you should kill him him and wayne maybe kill them both not billy she said that that she didn't want her sons around if they were quote going to be killing people you know it's going to be killing people being a big inconvenience we've got seven at least sheriff

Dan White said we got no justice after what they did those boys should be killed immediately slowly it's just a mockery of our justice system and then Bud Alday said every day I think of them. He said, and every day I regret that their killers were not taken back to the trailer and lynched. Again, he said that twice.

Every day of my life, I regret not killing those boys when they were down here. I believe the good Lord would forgive me. So 1975, Billy Isaacs is the only one who's not under a death sentence, obviously. He is returned to Maryland to stand trial for the kidnapping and murder of Richard Wayne Miller. Yeah. Remember him? Yeah. The kid with the future farmer?

He's being charged as an accomplice. He is found guilty and sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off 60 years. Well, he's got 100 now. Which will run concurrent to his 40 year since he's got 60 totally. Basically, he could potentially serve 50 years before being eligible for parole. That's how that works. He's never, you know, we'll talk about it now. Post trial here. Carl Isaacs is interviewed by a filmmaker making a documentary about the case.

And during this, he admits everything again and does all this shit. By the way, this whole thing prompted legislation that requires victims' families to be notified of developments in death penalty cases. That's only because of this case. This happened. Yeah, this all happened because certain things happened that the family didn't find out about until later. And we'll talk about it. So Carl does an interview, and it's on YouTube, by the way. You can see him and hear his fucking voice in 1975 talk all about this shit, man.

I hate that a lot. It's only a couple minutes long, but you can see it. He says he knows he has no future and he's ready to die. And he said, he'll just kill me if there's no other way out. Jesus, I'll get it over with. He said, quote, we were after money and more or less we didn't want to go to prison. So rather than tie him up and just leave him there, we figured that they couldn't send us back to prison if they couldn't find us, if they couldn't talk about us. So talked about all that.

He talks about Jimmy. He talks about Jimmy all day. Qu quote um uh oh i'm sorry no this is billy talking about carl talking about all this he said quote he's looking for a way out he's like a fly in a spider web he's trying to take me down with him and i don't blame him i'd be doing the same thing so he's trying to fucking now incriminate Billy. Yeah, save his own skin by throwing me. Yeah, which that won't save him. It'll just also get Billy. So four years later, Billy wrote a letter to Bud all day, the one who wants to have him lynched and shot.

I told him I knew it wouldn't bring wreck his relatives, but I wanted to let him know my conscience was bothering me. Bud dismissed the letter with contempt and said, quote, my feelings ain't changed a bit in this world he's no different from the others yeah it's just a bunch of piece of shit he was 15 that's a different that's that's yeah that's how the family feels that's how they feel yeah which i would i would feel like yeah he's a piece of shit but i wouldn't want the 15 year old who was obviously guided by older people with more at stake and actually didn't even participate in it

to also get the death penalty that's a little weird true like hey my brother broke out of jail my 19 year old cool brother broke out of jail cool i'm gonna go for a ride with him that's one thing that's some juvenile delinquent shit that i would have probably done happily then you get into we're gonna go murder people and oh hey let's back away from that a little bit. I'm going to go home. That's a little much now. Now, what happened to the farm here? Well, with the deaths of five of the all-day men who were all the farmers there, the family business couldn't be sustained. So following their murders, the neighbors actually pitched in to tend to their crops and bring them in. But after that, they couldn't continue.

They couldn't plant. Yeah, but they did that one year so to continue through the first year then the farming equipment was sold off now here's how this works prior to his death ned had had because he's getting older had deeded his property to three of his sons the ones that work on it jerry uh shoogie and jimmy he knew that uh they wouldn't take advantage of him and you know felt it was the best way to protect the land should anything happen to him they'll take they'll take care of their brothers too and they'll take care of the rest of their siblings

and everything will be fine the problem is that the way it works is with ned's death he died first the property then passed to jerry shoogie and and Jimmy, all of whom died shortly after that. Okay? Mary officially outlived them. So she, as Jimmy's heir, inherited the entire lot. Stop it. Except for a small acreage that went to Shuggie's wife, Barbara, that was carved out for her. Then she died.

She's murdered. So all of the farm and everything went to her family. Wow. So Mary's family ended up with the whole lot of everything. And they had nothing to do with any of this shit. So 500 plus acres that they built up over decades goes to another person. Yeah. Now, Ernestine Alday, who's lived there for 40 years

and built it, Ned's wife, it's not her house anymore. Wow. They eventually sell the land off in plots with Ernestine keeping a small parcel of land

where she built a tiny house for herself. Oh, that's so awful. It's fucking disgusting, man. So, they think Carl has murdered more people, by the way. they found some people uh pennsylvania state police said that they questioned carl about another woman a mrs elder who's a

painter and a former teacher at the garrison forest school which is a private girls school and lived in a nice uh state in baldwin maryland um on 22nd, 72, the car carrying Carl, his brother Billy, and I guess that's 70, yeah, 72. This is earlier before he's in jail. So before he even went to jail, he had his younger brother with him. Their car broke down near Stewartstown and Miss Elder passing by took them to Stewart's Town and back to the disabled car. When she arrived back at the car with the Isaac brothers, several area

residents had been there, and she took off. One of the onlookers summoned police because the disabled car had been seen near a house that was broken into. Police arrested the Isaacs and confiscated items from them. William isaacs was not prosecuted but carl was found guilty of five counts of housebreaking and all that kind of

shit and sentenced on that now on january 4th carl is january 14th of 72 or 73 the before this he escaped from yoke crest and on februaryth, he was arrested on a housebreaking charge, and then he was sentenced to four years and did all of that. But they found Mrs. Elder dead. So they think that he broke out and killed her, but they have no proof of it, and he won't admit to it. So they have no proof of it. Because he knows they've got no proof, he's not saying a word. He's not saying shit because they have no proof of it. July 28th, 1980.

Okay. Authorities are in the process of moving all of the 90-something inmates under the death sentence, the whole death row, from the prison in Reidsville to the newer Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Center in Butts County. So the officers, they say, had they hustled Isaacs from his cell, the ones who took him out, had they taken a closer look, they might've discovered that two bars in the cell had been hacksawed with a smuggled blade. The cutting concealed with a mixture of chewing gum and a paint and paint from

a paint by numbers kit. They give the prisoners to fuck with. Wow. Isaacs had been outside his cell sawing on the bars of the window south wall when he heard the guard elevator coming up to the floor. So he scrambled back into his cell and into his bunk and they came to move him. It's about 830 a.m. when the officers noticed what he thought was another guard on the prison on the prison roof pulling a rope. It's like, why is a guard pulling a rope? I don't know.

They must have something going on over there. What he actually saw was a condemned murderer climbing out of a prison window on a rope of bed sheets, dressed as a fucking guard. Holy shit. Four of Isaac's cellmates were wearing guard uniforms fashioned from blue mail-order pajamas, complete with fake U.S. flags flag patches name tags and fake badges crafted from cardboard and a soft drink can so from a distance they'd look like guards basically is what they did um these guys who climbed out carl's not among them they fucking just climbed down strolled to the main gate and drove off in a car that had been left by a relative of one of the escapees in the lot. Unbelievable.

That's fucking crazy. Death row guys just walked the fuck out. This was Carl's plan. This was his whole escape. He planned all of this. This is all his brainchild. He just included these other people. And they got him before he got out. That's right. Tim McCordale,

Troy Gregg, David Jarrell, and Johnny Johnson are the four that got away. They removed steel bars that had taken them months to saw through with the hacksaws. They slid through the windows, walked across a roof, climbed down a ladder, and strolled in a single file line across a grassy area and out of a main gate where they got in a blue Plymouth that had been left there the previous day by one of McCore Cadell's relatives. They found the ignition key and the sun visor, and they drove off. Unbelievable.

Yep. Isaacs is pissed off because he missed it. Yeah. You missed it. He had the whole thing. By the way, Bob Ingram, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent who interviewed Isaacs at one point, too, said, quote, because he was the mastermind. He wanted to be in there. He said, quote, you hate to make a martyr or a hero out of such a vicious criminal, but he does have a good mind and a very criminal mind.

He said he's a very manipulative person. He'll use you, me, or anybody else he can get to his utmost advantage. Yeah, he engineered the plot involving other death row inmates and involving one of the inmates' father. He said he did it, quote, just to occupy his mind.

Didn't even really care about getting out or anything. He just planned and executed a very, very well done prison escape. Not bad. And Postal, by the way, the guy who keeps interviewing him, said, quote, he has groupies from Oregon to Georgia. They write him constantly and give him money. He manipulates people like pawns on a chessboard. That is fucking crazy.

Yeah, that's goddamn wild goddamn wild now that happened okay that's pretty fucking funny carl said that his only message is he's had he had a message for the three escapees who returned to reedsville he said that he would quote like to kick their asses for being out that long and not getting a piece or wasting somebody. What? They didn't fuck or kill. What else are you out there for? Oh, my God. Yep.

He said that when he was moved, he cursed him. So he said, quote, he told us later he was thinking, here I worked so hard and I get nothing for it. He had a hand in every aspect of that escape. The george grand jury indicts him for masterminding the first georgia death row escape in memory but he was never prosecuted for it since he was already facing the death sentence there really isn't much they could do he's on death row you can't put him in super death row he's already in the shit place so the interviews with the postal guy lasted over 10 months in 1974.

He claims to have Carl claims not postal. Carl claims to have committed 15 other rapes and burglaries in Delaware and Pennsylvania, for which he was never tried. Yeah, they are. It's fucking crazy. Postal said Isaacs has been hurting people since he was five years old. At one point when he said that I could kill you if I want to, if I got out of here. Carl said that Postal said, why, Carl? I thought you liked me.

And Isaacs replied, I do like you. That doesn't mean I wouldn't kill you, which is an odd fucking thing here. Now, that 1980 escape, by the way, Postal and his wife, Judy, are indicted for aiding the death row escape from Reidsville. What did they do? The prosecution case held its case on Postal's relationship with Isaacs. He's the book he's writing about him and the letters they had received from death row asking for suspicious materials. So weeks later, though, the charges dropped after Isaacs admits he was just trying to extort $15,000 from Postal in exchange for a promise of favorable testimony. Basically, he was trying to set him up so he could get money, and then he'd come out and say that that's not what Postal said. So that's how it was.

That's wild. Isaacs said that it wasn't a big deal. It was just boredom. He said, this is the Georgia Bureau of Investigation guy. He said, quote, Carl told us there's not a whole lot to do here on death row. This keeps me occupied. I basically just did it for giggles. What the fuck?

Why does he have ability to plan this with guys? Dude, he's fucking insane. He's manipulative. I'm telling you, he talks people into shit. 1982, Isaacs is stabbed by two fellow death row inmates using crude homemade knives fashioned from melted down plastic spoons. Hell yeah. This took place in the runaround area of the H2 death row cell block. He recovered and he said that the attack was because of the notoriety of his case. And prison prison officials responded by saying, actually, the attack was because you attacked them and they took those weapons from you and use them on you. Those were his weapons.

He attacked two guys and they attacked him back and stabbed him. That's what it really was. So he is stabbed 31 times, though. They fucking they got him good. Most of his injuries were in the abdomen and lung area. During surgery, doctors removed the tip of a makeshift plastic knife from his abdomen. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

They said it was the feeling of the officials that Isaac's first attacked the guy who stabbed him in the right leg and Rodney Easter, who had two wounds in his left leg, too, before both the guys who stabbed him had stab wounds from the same knives. That's the thing. So they both turned on him and used it on him. They're standing there holding them. So they definitely didn't stab themselves. And Carl's 5'5 and 150 pounds. So when you attack two guys with plastic spoons, I don't care how sharp they are, they're going to beat the shit out of you.

That's how that works. So, yeah, they all got stabbed up. By 1983, two books and a bad movie come out about them as well. There's another movie in 1988 that'll come out here. In this film, the main character was Billy. Billy provides the narration and is like the main character of the story. It's told through him. It was a sympathetic portrayal of Billy erroneously showing him as an innocent boy who'd never gotten into any trouble prior to the murders.

Like he was just this innocent kid coming home from school with his little lunchbox and then his brother tore us into the driveway. I was like, 19 year old girl. Come with me, Billy. Come on, let's go. And he was like, oh, okay, sure. Hold on. Let me get my hat with a little spinny thing on top. Are billy come on let's go and he was like oh okay sure hold on let me get my hat with the little spinny thing on top are we going fishing let's go going fishing let me get my pole um the film also takes creative license with how they were caught uh choosing to have billy's character pull a gun on carl to present to prevent him from taking a young girl hostage rather than

surrendering under the threat of gunfire by police why write that why make that well we know the dommer movie is not even close to real either the dommer netflix our next after this week our next uh our next uh um patreon yeah will be real dommer real dommer versus netflix dommer and see what's real and what's not because there is so much shit that's not real there is a there's a guy named jeffrey dommer and he did kill people in his apartment outside of that nothing in that fucking movie is real pretty much and his dad's name is lionel outside of that really there isn't much of anything and the neighbor was a man and he lived across the hall that and well with the woman it was him and the woman too and they ate the it's not the same one the other

one is the one that called, but then she didn't. Anyway, either way. So here comes an appeal in the mid 80s, Jimmy appeal. It's 128 page opinion from the 11th Circuit. Yeah. They said, quote, This small community was overwhelmed and saturated with prejudicial and inflammatory publicity, which I can't argue with. Seminole County was deeply prejudiced as to both the guilt and sentence of the defendants. Local passions were fanned, the court said, by the widespread knowledge that the surviving Aldeys wanted the death penalty and had paid a special prosecutor to try the cases.

I didn't know you could. I didn't know the victim of a family could hire the prosecutor they want to prosecute the person i didn't know that was a thing the all days paid five thousand dollars for former lieutenant governor peter gear the fucking nephew of the judge by the way also to try the cases he tried all of them, moreover, ranking law enforcement officers made widely reported and outrageous statements as to the need for vengeance, retribution and capital punishment all in the name of justice. I read you those quotes.

That was before the trial. That was before there was a jury pool. Stunning. In such an atmosphere, the panel said it's inconceivable to think that the defendants received an impartial assessment they said that this is the poster case of a change of venue this is exactly when you have a change of venue so the nephew of the judge isn't the prosecutor who got paid and everybody there's heard the sheriff say these boys should fry that's you can't have that And he did all of them?

This is my cousin Vinny. Yeah, that's what I mean. This is my cousin Vinny, except that they're guilty as shit. That's the only difference. So, yeah, fast forward My Cousin Vinny Part 2 when they do the trial of the real killers, and that's what we have here. So, yeah, they also said that there was all this shit. So they overturn the murder convictions.

All three? All three. Wow. Okay. 1985, two days after the 11th Circuit made its decision to call for new trials.

Holy shit. Two days later, Carl tries to escape again. The day before Thanksgiving, prison guards on a routine inspection discovered that Isaacs had sawed on a ventilation grate in his cell. Looking further, they found hacksaw blades, work gloves, and a rope in his cell. Also, a small amount of money found buried in a wooded area outside the prison that he has access to. Carl, chill, man. Things are going your way wow um so uh they said that he was so close to being to a potential escape that the layer after layer of the screens louvers and metal backings had all

been penetrated through to the plumbing uh chase behind the cell leaving only a single set of thin steel bars in the skylight above the chase he was basically he was going to escape that day is what it was he had planned to escape that day so they have a retrial quickly uh carl has a nine-day hunger strike after he files suit against the chatham county for inhumane treatment he suffered while in custody. So he files another suit in 87 saying he'd been illegally transported from Chatham County, making subsequent movements across the state illegal. It's pretty silly here. Problem is in his retrial to former Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent Ron Angel, who headed the slaying investigation in 73, he testified that the prosecution's unable to produce the.380 pistol that was recovered when the Isaac gang was arrested. Do you know why?

Why? Because Angel had kept the gun at his home. At his home. After using it in an out-of-state trial connected with their crime spree. The gun was then stolen from his home when it was burglarized years later and he still had the evidence there.

It was stolen 10 months before the convictions and death penalties were overturned, so they could have used it. The prosecution had been using a photograph of the gun, which was taken in 1973. That's what they're using in the retrial.

So, yeah. Also, the Georgia Supreme Court ruled that Judge McMillan, who was overseeing the case, they disqualified him. It took two months to find another guy for the whole thing, another judge. The state called a writer filmmaker by the name of Fleming Fuller to the stand. He's the guy who interviewed him on that YouTube thing. And he said that, you know, Isaac's told him everything on film. Basically said, here's him confessing on film.

So him bragging afterwards, trying to be cool and get girls to send him letters, looking like he's not scared to die, ended up fucking him in this retrial here. During this, he Jesus Christ, he got the sequence of on camera. He seems monotone. He got the sequence of shootings incorrect. He mentioned that while leaving Aubrey all day in the bedroom to take Billy's gun from him,

Aubrey managed to get a hold of a 12 gauge shotgun that had been standing in the corner. And only by sheer bad luck for Aubrey and Carl managed to get a hold of a 12 gauge shotgun that had been standing in the corner and only by sheer bad luck for Aubrey and Carl managed to shoot him first. He also blamed Mary for her own death by claiming that he told her if she gave them no hassle it would save her life.

Yeah, they would have killed everyone else and not her. The verdict comes in here obviously. Six counts and all that shit two hours of deliberation they find him guilty of all the murders again penalty phase though they argue for the death penalty citing the heinous nature of the crime prison escapes boastful accounts he's such a fucking asshole he deserves it yeah he said that he brought up his evil nature talking about what he did at the said to the reporter what what he did, all that type of shit.

He keeps trying to get out. Yeah, it's crazy. Isaac's attorney, though, said they call one witness for the sentencing, and that is a woman he's been corresponding with since 74. She's testified that Isaac's addresses her as mom. They talk about the Bible and participate in Bible study courses together. According to her, in 1979, Isaacs had been baptized in her church and later graduated from the Baptist Christian College in Louisiana, where he had taken correspondence courses and received a Master of Bible Theology from the International Bible Institute.

She was convinced that Carl was the kind of person who could reach out and help anyone, She was convinced that Carl was the kind of person who could reach out and help anyone, just anyone. In closing, they said that they tried to bring some psychological thing around where Carl is mad at his mother for abandoning him and all this other kind of shit. So they they try to tie that. They try to say like this was he was really attacking his mother not mary in the closings they claim that the rape of mary had not really been a rape really but actually um a way of for carl to assault his own mother who he hated i don't care who you thought it was i don't care if you thought it was bugs bunny you're going to fucking fuck you you raped and killed this lady i'm gonna fuck what you think it was that's wild so they deliberate for an hour and 52 minutes on the sentence, so a little longer, and they come back.

You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty again, cocksucker. All right. Wayne Coleman's next. By the time the second trial comes around, he's only 41, but he already has white hair and lost all his teeth. What? His body looks emaciated.

He looks like they pulled him out of a hole that he's been in for five years. Fascinating. His attorney blamed Carl, called him a killer, a manipulator, all this type of shit. He also called two clinical psychologists to the stand, one to testify to Carl Isaac's psychological makeup, saying how manipulative he was. This goes to, the case goes to jury. The jury has a nice hamburger dinner and then finds him guilty of six counts of murder. That's fun. Sentencing starts the next day.

Carl, though, here, this took a while to deliberate. One juror, a 22-year-old old woman stated that she would not vote for the death sentence so deliberations continued though they had arguments six days of deliberating and fighting with each other 35 hours of deliberation finally the jury forum woman

sent a word to the judge that there was a deadlock and they're unable to agree on a sentence so the judge is forced to declare a mistrial and under georgia law this meant that he would receive a life sentence you sir may fuck off life in jail eligible for parole in 15 years by the way that's kind of that's kind of a cool law because they couldn't yeah they couldn't figure it out dungy uh here he was the last in line. They decreed, uh, this is I'll read from the court document here was in line for retrial. But in 1988, the Georgia general assembly had decreed that mentally retarded individuals could not be executed in Georgia.

It took till 1988 to figure that out. Dungy who had repeatedly been given IQ tests and never scored higher than a 68 met the requirements as the state judged people whose IQs were lower than 70 to be mentally retarded. And so on July 14th, 1988, George pleaded guilty to the by guilty by reason of mental retardation to six counts of murder. That's an official plea. I'm guilty because I am retarded as a,

you can say that fascinating choice. And he is sentenced to you, sir, may fuck off six consecutive life sentences. Doesn't help any. No, that doesn't help any at all. Not at all. Now, their family is pissed off, obviously, the all-day family. Bud says, quote, I could pull the switch on all of them and not miss a wink. Yep, he said there were people that wanted

to kill him as soon as they were captured and brought back to town i told him no i thought there was more justice to court than what there was if it was if it was to do over again if i was to do it over again i'd have a different opinion so the movie is called murder one it's out in 1988 1993 billy's up for parole really Really? It's been 20 years. They did say a Georgia parole board official said there is no crime that matches this in the state of Georgia, at least not in modern times. And they parole him. Really? They let him out.

He'll be on parole. He'll be under parole supervision until 2035, though. He's married to his prison pen pal and plans to move to Florida. 1998, Ernestine dies. Ned's wife. Poor woman, Jesus Christ. May 6, 2003 is Execution Day for Carl. Yeah.

Everybody else is dead. Also, the judge who sentenced him is dead. Seminole County Sheriff who helped investigate is dead. The first deputy who arrived is dead. The original prosecutor is dead. Half the original jury is dead. Everybody's dead. It's been 30 years. Unbelievable.

Yeah, they said, but there's Carl. He's not dead. He does have some really aggressive bladder cancer, though. Really? People don't think they're going to execute him, though. Here is a local resident, 55-year-old J.L. Stevens. More fucking initials. Still doing it.

30 years later. He said, when I read the obituary, I'll believe it. I won't believe it before then. The sentences should have been carried out long ago. It's hard to believe in justice when it's like that um he said uh here's a guy named randy american which sounds more like a title he's a randy american randy american is his name that's amazing sounds like you got one name and also his credit in the movie. Randy, he was the American. He's the American.

He said, if you want my opinion, he's going to end up dying in prison. I just don't know why it's taken so damn long. So last try at clemency, his lawyer said, quote, he's not the devil. And the clemency board said, we beg to differ. We think he is actually the devil. Yeah. Sheriff Dan White, by the way, he's dead now. But at one point he said, if I had it, if I had my way about it, I'd have me a large oven and I'd pre-cook them several days just to keep them alive and let them punish.

And I don't think that would satisfy me. What? If the sheriff has sick thoughts like that, he might not want to be, let's not have him be the sheriff. Keep an eye on that guy. Oh my God. Um,

so anyway, Isaac's has been suffering from bladder cancer and wears a colostomy bag into the death chamber. Final meal. Yeah. Final meal. His bag. bag well first of all he said that he he he is remorseful and he's not the same hot-headed person that he was back then last meal pork and macaroni pinto beans sauteed cabbage carrot salad a dinner roll chocolate cake and fruit punch it's the regular meal they gave him and he refused it didn't want it wouldn't even eat it uh when they get him out there he

declined an opportunity to make a final statement but did ask for a final prayer yeah he mouthed amen after the prayer this is the first execution in georgia history where the family members of the victims are allowed to witness the execution these are the first ones right here um yep uh ape so they lethally inject him he's dead april 4th 2006 george dungy dies of a heart attack in prison in reedsville at 68 years old yep and um let's see here uh may 4th 2009 billy isaacs dies in florida at 51 years old only one left is wayne coleman who keeps getting parole hearings and keeps getting denied they're not giving him shit he's still in prison he's up he's too shy he goes in there he goes i don't know guys he's up for parole every year, though. Every couple of years, he can get parole.

So he might be out. They're going to shawshank him every year. Every fucking year. He's almost 80 years old now. So it's getting to the point where it's kind of pointless at this point. At some point, he's going to walk in there and go, whether you parole me or not, I don't give a shit. And they're going to go, paroled. Great.

You shy cocksucker. Why don't you head on back into prison and meet some people? what are you really gonna do at 80 you're gonna start a new life everyone you know is dead just fucking go in there and rot who cares everyone you know is here so that everybody is donaldsonville georgia and one hell of a fucking crazy goddamn twisty case that is holy shit those are some bad people people. How about Billy not outliving Wayne? No, Billy didn't outlive Wayne. That's pathetic. At least Carl died first

though. Carl deserved to die first, I would say. Either way, if you like that story, get on wherever app you're listening to us on. That didn't come out smoothly. Whatever app you're listening on, hop on there and give us a review. Five stars is great. Just say something nice. It doesn't matter what it is. It's not for our ego.

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the merchandise, number one, one but as well you are going to get tickets to live shows holy shit virtual live show coming up here um october the 27th virtual live show we are jacked for that cannot wait it's available for a week after the show so you can get it that day you can watch it 20 times you can get it a couple days later do whatever you want with it just like a real live show, except you're in your living room and we're in a studio. But it looks just like a live show. We're not in your living room, though.

That would be extra. That wouldn't be like whatever it costs, $20 or something. That would be more. That would cost a little bit more. So get your tickets to that, shutupandgivememurder.com, as well as heading over to patreon.com slash crimeandsports. What's there, you ask? All the bonus stuff.

My God. Like the show? Wish there was more of it? Well, there is more of it. Is there? So much more of it. Bonus episodes with the Patreon subscription. Anybody, $5 a month or above, just a cup of coffee worth of Patreon.

You will get everything, the whole back catalog, like 150 episodes of Patreon back there and a new episode every single other week you get it every other week so every other week it's for a month you get one crime and sports one small town murder every other week and you have access to it all this

week for crime and sports we're going back to one of our favorites and one of the favorites of everybody out there personal ads where we look through we look through the paper and find desperate, desperate pleas for love from 80s and 90s people in newspapers and they're hilarious. And then for Small Town Murder,

we're going to do, back by popular demand, small town festivals, weird county fairs, see if there's like a baby tossing contest, testicle festivals, weird bands. We'll talk about it all. Patreon.com slash crime and sports.

And with that subscription, you are also going to get a shout out at the end of the show where Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly. Speaking of that, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever, ever break out of prison, pick up their little brother, and then go murder an entire family. Hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Christina Punt, or Punt. I imagine it's Punt. And JB and Yeti Shetty in Canada.

Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. It's truly appreciated. Other producers this week are Rear Admiral Stein Schweiker, Daughters of the American Dream, Corporal Carl Kirshner, Jerry and Jean Lundgaard, I believe, in Minnesota. Shep Proudfoot, happy hour checking in in Midland, Texas. Peyton Meadows, oh, see? Gaetano DeLeonardis. I almost said Gaetano. Gaetano.

Jessica Finch, my best friend. Tiffany Gonzalez, law firm Seymour Shitstain and Associates. Meister, oh, it's Mr.red blassie and uh in a breakfast mess what is it classy freddy from what what is that classy freddy blast he's a wrestling manager the hollywood fashion plate whatever that is a what a breakfast mess yeah i don't know is that a military thing i don't gary friedman is the most fun person ever i like it i'll try to figure out so many references that i have no fucking idea what they are. Karen Vandenhendi, I think.

She's given it to us both ways, James, I believe so. Oh, well, thank you. That sounded filthy after this episode, but thank you. Frank the South African Birdwasher, Gaza's limo driver who hated Ricky, Judge Chamberlain Holler, Janice Hill, Megan, and James Kokich. Kokich. Kokick. Ralph Cramden, obviously, Janice Hill, Megan, and James Kokich.

Ralph Cramden, obviously. Reverend Myron Weinberg. Adam looking for the pipe, Wyatt. Kyle Matthews. Michelle Reier. Leanne with no last name. Louisa Todd. Leah Miller.

Jessica with no last name. Victoria Moss. Cammie with no last name. Dan Glissack. Alexander with no last name. Brittany Glissack. Alexander with no last name. Brittany Page. Rachel Krempa. Han Kott.

Katie Orth. Queen of Pop. Tara Cobb. Kathleen Isbell. Paige Cameron. Allison with no last name. Amber Laguio. Chris Zobel. Quinn Percenton. Phillip Milligan. Alicia with no last name amber lag oh boy laguio i think chris zobel nice uh quinn percenton philip milligan alicia with no last name tabby schmidt chris with no last name paula de man uh cara crop

janae baggett oh boy bagot bag it i don't want uh bag it up let's go what i mean ellen uh ellen moleh ba uh b with no last name moley i don't know. Matt Lewis, Sherry Riddle, Fallon Caldwell, J with no last name. Stroke, oh boy, what does this say? Stroke and Moy, okay, it's probably gross. Stroke I Moynen, Stroke Moynen? I don't, it's probably gross. I don't know. Stroke him if you got him, everybody.

There it is. Connie Colas, Colias, Colias. John Nosebush? That can't, everybody. There it is. Connie Colas, Colias, Colias. John Nosebush. That can't be right. That's awesome. Lena Osborne, Anna Signor, Tyvon Sands. Tyvon? Tyvon?

Oh, it's probably Tyvon Sands. Cicely Gouge, I think. Michael Watts, Cam Ferguson. John Shea, Kathy Wilkerson. Sharice Mutchler. Thomas Kelvey. Ricardo Ortiz, Jennifer Guthrie, Enzo Puccio, Annie Jankowski, Taylor Nolan, Cheyenne Martin, Alejandro Morales, Mary Sullivan, Whiskey Char, Corrale, Amy Angelo, Abby Secret Secret Sauce Puya, I don't know.

Papercut Serial Killer, Brett Carpenter, Jalen Robinson, Eleanor with no last name, Tracy Hill, Jennifer Murphy, Chelsea with no last name, Hannah Heather, Coverstone, Audrey Stanley, Danny Sofa, Katie Pridgen, John with no last name, Jonathan bennison thomas lapira david hadley serena serena witski uh pat okay pat maweeney that's not real that's fake as fuck i know what maweeney means you son of a bitch ryan mccluskey amy simpson uh chris uh chris gagas Thompson, Chris Gagazonian, Emily Beardsley, Susan Rosenberg, Juana with no last name, Olivia with no last name, Melissa Hoel, Raven, oh yeah, I dodged you. What?

Yeah, I'm sure that's what it was. That's right. It's on the money. Joseph Smith, Alicia Rodriguez, Lauren Ray, Aaron Welch, Pamela Vesalios, Vesalisa, Vesalisel, sorry, Pam. Mrs. Bristle, what the fuck did you say? Angie Doyle, Michelle Burkett, Jesse Werner, Vash Valentine. Wow, that's a cool.

All right, Megan Lindacre. That's admiring. It's beautiful. Nikki with no last name, Kayla Morgan, Jameson Weld, Brandon Bacron. Brandon with no last name, Edna Crabapple87, Samantha with no last name, Stephanie

Castor, Allie Jago, Tara Beaudry, I think. Fucking Dave? What? Jeff Ace, Stefan Moore, Tara Beaudry, I think. Fucking Dave. What? Jeff Ace, Stephen Moore, Nick Hurlbutt. Jesus. Riley with no last name. James Knight, Brian Holleran, Virginia Liu, Christina McCormick. Gretchen with no last name.

Cooper Craig Pat with no last name. Sydney Alexander, Benny Lapps, Michael Klein, Kim Perry, Brianna Boyer, Jenna Pletz, Lindsay Whelan, Stephanie Earle, Ashley Witt, Cara Van Den Dandy. Oh, that's, see, she's giving it to us both ways. I think that's the same person. Jake Wright, Stephen Bach, Nicole Mary, Rachel Shiev, Bethany, Karen, Michelle, we know that name. Rachel, ah, Shiev. shell would know that name. Rachel, ah, she, yeah.

Dan Wolf, Todd Wigman, Amy Kay, Tyler Sanders, Kelly Clark, Shane Smith, Melissa T, Suplex Sonny, Lee Cummings. I wonder if that's the same lady we know. I don't know. It's possible. Joni Woodling, Lily Truesdale, Taylor, oh boy, Carcaracholo. I know. Carachiolo. caracciolo no racciolo dr tingren uh kylie novak's uh kathy spellman claudia rodriguez where's leila leila raddich sig sig dippy daddy wfml my fuck ryan van fleet eric muller

brooke burmeister sierra featherston yep uh steven maynard, Brittany Grimes, Ashley Falls, Danny Carter, Joshua Morlock, CJD, Debbie Smith, Tomos Roberts, Stephen Michael Sanchez, Paul Miller, Jen Silvius, Lawrence Hurd, Laura Spaeth, KTB, Jesse Gordon. Fucking, it's falling apart. Lindsay Harris, Tyler Race. Wheels are coming off it. Bree Thole, Ro the Cat. Meow, meow.

Sarah Sulins, Paige Luber. Mondi can't get, oh, Mondi, they can't get tickets to Austin. I'm really sorry. There are a lot of people that really want to get to that Austin show. I think that we have, by the way, Austin, I think we have a few artist tickets that are like ours that they put aside for us, like a couple dozen maybe. We will release those at some point. Very soon, I imagine. So keep checking.

Follow us on social media. Follow the show on social media. We're available. Nick. With no last name. Yeah. Aaron Haggard, Andrea Chapman, Jeremy Holman, Emily Smith, Shea Anderson, Gina Ribeiro. Yep, I think so.

Alina Moore, I think. Corey Geisbrecht, Matthew Bebbington, Greg Carr, Liz Berliner, Rhonda Green, Thomas Andy, Stephanie Davis. Hey! Christy Arias, Estella Lumareus. I don't know. Adam Vela, Piku. What? Justin Golightly, Tori Johnston, Johnston, sorry, Tori, Suzanne Ann Walker, Shanna Neal, Heidi Schilling, Rachel Brandy, Brandly, Brandilly, I don't know, Danny Breider, Kyle with no last name, Shadaya, Shadaya Elashker. Kelsey Johnson. Dana with no last name. Taya Berry.

Alex Blackstone. John Kelly. Janet Borth. Rebecca Knapp. Madison Graham. Brittany Shippey. Nope, that's Brett. Brett Shippey.

Different person. Haley Brown. Nicole Doss. Caitlin Felix. Alexis Guillen. Guillen. Alyssa Powell. Dustin Johnson.

Dana Palmer, Tracy Curran, Justin with no last name, Melanie Flight, Sherry Leist, Sarah with no last name, Jessica Mallory, Rosie is my cat. All right, good for you. Courtney, Court Fleischer,

Emily Turchy, Rebecca Jones, Mark Latuska, Wendy Pittman, Elizabeth Kreska, Feenag, Feenag, Feenag, Feenag, Johnson. You know who you are. Holly Bonchella, Erica Whiting, Phil May, Amanda Hicks, Melissa Wolf, Alyssa Bates, Victoria Cannon, Steph with no last name, Tamara Wolf, Drake Fisher, Greg Little, Remy with no last name caitlin cala cala sick uh bmp

osaka lujaconeca osaka luka chen akado you got that i'm never gonna get that quinn carson jill with no last name georgie lynn aaron lurs what is this, Clyburn, Brendan with no last name, Melissa with no last name, Morgan Burke, Isaac Messmer, David Counter, mine, Joseph Bailey, and all of our patrons. You guys are phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us. We do appreciate it more than you could ever know. If you want to follow us on social media, very easy to do that. We are just go to shutupandgivememurder.com.

There's links to everything or Google Small Town Murder Podcast Host. We're the only two. I promise you we'll pop up. Until then, keep coming back. Keep seeing us. We will have more terrible murder. Listen to Express on Fridays. Listen to the remaining What's Left of Crime in Sports on Tuesday. pop up until then keep coming back keep seeing us we will have more terrible murder listen to express on fridays listen to the remaining what's left of crime and sports on on tuesday and we have

a new show coming out in the new year that we'll tell you all about soon we cannot wait but until then everybody until next week i should say it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.