Small Town Murder - #327 - Beer, Sex & Jealousy - Albia, Iowa

Episode Date: October 21, 2022

This week, in Albia, Iowa, a hard drinking pair of distant cousins drink themselves silly, for an entire day, then decide to pick up an ex-girlfriend, and keep the party going. But when the ex-girlfriend turns her affections toward the wrong cousin, the two men take a ride, to discuss their issue. Next thing you know, someone is bleeding out, and a multi county manhunt starts! The excuses for the murder range from ridiculous to preposterous, while he tries to squirm his way out of it! A truly weird & unnecessary killing!!Along the way, we find out that even the dust is explosive in Iowa, that 60 beers, and an ex-girlfriend are a bad mix, and that you shouldn't say that you're about to kill someone, if you want to say it wasn't premeditated!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay!

Choo-choo! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. All aboard the murder train. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us.

We are excited today. We have a crazy, crazy episode, as usual. We're going to the Midwest, which is always fun. Quickly, before we get into it, thank you for all that you do for us. Reviews are helpful. Five stars, whatever app you're listening on. Say something. It helps the show.

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They like you to stick around in print man so that's wild stuff check that out and then for small town murder we're going to talk about a back by popular demand here small town festivals weird stuff there is some definitely some testicle festivals in there and stuff like that check it out so much fun we'll talk about those and bad bands and strange competitions all All that and more. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And, of course, you'll get a shout out at the end of the main show there on Wednesday nights, Thursdays, whatever it is. So that said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back.

Yeah. What do you say, Jimmy? Clear the lungs. Hell yeah. Wherever you are, somewhere hopefully not too public of a place, i think it's time to sit back and shout let's do this jimmy let's go on a trip shall we what do you say here we are going all the way to iowa this week oh my oh baby i right in the middle of the corn belt there is that a thing the corn belt it's gotta be this is a buckle of the corn belt right in the corn of the corn belt there. Is that a thing, the corn belt? It's got to be.

This is a buckle of the corn belt. Right in the corn cob. I got them right in the corn cob. Let me tell you something. We are in Albia, Iowa. Albia? A-L-B-I-A. Labia, if you mix the letters up.

Labia, Iowa. There you go. Just switch the L and the A and you got something. It's in southern Iowa. Now, the actual murder takes place about 45 minutes away, but all these people are all Albia people. The actual murder takes place in Derby, Iowa, which has 90 people in it and nothing. There's nothing. It's a ghost town. They don't even have a store. They have a post office that's open from 8 a.m. noon that's it they just put all

the boxes outside commerce that's it hours of post you can't get a cup of coffee in that town so i'm like all right fascinating nothing happening there so we'll talk about where everyone in this thing is from and that's all be a south iowa kind of south central iowa uh population 3,713 median income here 43,877 dollars that's median household income about 10,000 dollars less than the national average but the housing here too the median home cost here 115,800 bucks so it's a wow it's a yeah and it's a very affordable kind of a middle of nowhere kind of place here. A little history. It was named after Albia, New York, which was the home of a settler who came here early on. There's an Albia, New York?

Apparently. I know there's an Albany, New York, but maybe he's just like, I'm from up there in Albia or something like that. North New York. He just trails off his word sometimes, so they called it Albia. I don't know. He's on Valentine's Day, February 14th, 1893, there was a coal mine explosion. Oh, yeah. About two and a half miles west of Albia.

The room and pillar mine had opened in around 1877. By the time of the explosion, the mining extended more than 1,000 yards from the hoisting shaft. So 1,000 yards underground. Into the earth? I guess into the earth. Employed 60 miners and 20 other men, I guess, for whatever the hell. One miner was killed and seven died later of their injuries. And, yeah, not great.

There was a huge, I guess,powder charge uh ignited a dust explosion in the mind in the mind and uh yeah this is a big deal i guess the dust is flammable you will have to be shitting they have gunpowder charge used to bring down the coal i guess so they blow up shit so the coal comes out of the wall well like yeah it ignited a dust somehow the dust is flammable and if you call because yeah if you light it i don't it caused some sort of flash freak explosion jesus christ man yeah it was pretty bad i guess so there you go um in the basically through the 1900s all here this is just all coal mining through this area it's just little coal mines and every town is a little company town. That's why you get these towns like Derby that have nobody left in them.

Once the mine closes, everybody leaves. So it's one of those deals. I guess a lot of, all of them basically were coal camps in this area. Reviews of this town, not about coal.

This is for Albia here. Three stars. What I like about Albia is that since it's such a small town, everyone knows each other and the teachers at school have better relationships with students. What is not my favorite That sounds creepy. I don't like that

at all. Take it easy. What is not my favorite is that it does not have as many opportunities or stores here and have to drive to bigger cities to be able to do things that's small town living um it is i also wish that school life was more challenging but we do not have the resources to do so what you don't have the resources for curriculum you don't have the books that tell you what teach more advanced lessons what are we talking about they don't have the money james to make

the teachers smart so they can teach good if we had more money our teachers would be smarter but they are they make up for it by being real close and snuggly with the students so it's all right now what would you rather have a real good feel of the civil war or real good feel the inside of your teacher's mouth i think that that's, you answered your own question, pal. Four stars. The police and fire departments in our town do their job. Okay? That's helpful.

Were they paid for it? When things catch on fire, the firemen come and put that out. Oh, that's great. Wow. That's amazing. Terrific. When you order food, the fucking waiter brings it to you. That's great. Wow. That's amazing. Terrific. When you order food, the fucking waiter brings it to you. That's great. Everybody's doing their job. Thank God.

The fire department is strictly volunteer. We should be applauding these men and women who get called in at the most random times and are happy to help. Our police department also does a nice job of patrolling the area and being aware of certain times of the year when more dangerous activities happen oh i don't know what those are i have no idea some sort of coal mining reenactments happen i have no idea what's happening here we'll find out what they do here with things to do all right here we go not a lot around here to do put it that way the monroe county fair though is in albia and uh they call it a barn in the usa fair barn in the usa like born like you know you know how the red and white thing you know jesus christ they have mechanical bull riding um you won't want every time i hear about a barn now

i think about your little factoid that you spit at me while driving. You fucked my life up. With the rust of the way the red of the rust? Yeah. You fucking destroyed me. Every time I hear the word barn or see one, I want to tell somebody. If you don't know what we're talking about, barns, shit, we're not going to have any time to do

this now. Barns are painted red because back in the day farmers painted their barns red because they used rust basically it was basically rust water they put on the outside and that kept the bugs from eating their fucking barn right that's how it works so then they just became a tradition to paint them red now we paint it right now we don't use rust but you know there you go so uh come on down and ride the mechanical bull here. It's a rancher-themed mechanical bull.

I don't know what the fuck that means. But $5 per ride. Discover the excitement of what it takes to go eight seconds on this bull. That sounds sexual. Yeah, it sure does. Then it says, come and test your skills on this one, partner. It's a mechanical bull. It's a mechanical bull. It's a mechanical bull.

It costs $25 a night to camp here, by the way, if you want to camp at this thing. At the Barn in the USA Festival. Yeah, at the county fair, if you want to camp at the fair. $25. Go home and come back. What are you doing here? Jesus. They have a little prince and princess contest, of course.

A baby contest. Doesn't say what they're looking for. Just a baby. This one's the most baby that we could find. An open pet show. Walk on in. A hot dog eating contest. You know, how many as you can eat in a specified time.

I guess crunch there. The Bill Riley talent search. Oh, that's going to be amazing. Seeking. Well, I don't like this. There's categories ages 12, 2 to 12, and then seniors. That's this category for ages 13 to 21. I don't like this guy at all.

Bill Riley. It's the seniors. My eyes on you and then we close it all out with the exciting as they call it exciting weekend entertainment from the band mud flat mafia yes the mud flat mafia ladies naked from the waist down yep they will play following the mud drag which is just dirty drag queens covered in mud. That's all that is. And then they're going to play there.

So there you go. Beer garden open all day. Enjoy. Come on down. Now that you're excited about the mud flat mafia, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do it. Let's get into this.

We have to go a little back in the time machine here. Step back. Here we go. You got your bags packed, Jimmy? Everything? Well, I got so many, they won't fit in this thing now. Ready for time travel? Well, let's do it.

We're going back to 1983. Yeah. 83, baby. Here we go. It's a magical time in southern Iowa. It's going to be the fall, Thanksgiving week. Okay. Thanksgiving week.

I bet you that's the time when crime goes up. See, I'm real good at this. I rather than wait a month and do this on Thanksgiving. I'm like, well, you know what? I'm going to do it now because I'm an idiot. So let's do this here. We need to talk about a young man, first of all, named Michael Jesperson. Michael Jesperson.

He's 22 years old. He's a bit of a local jerk off, I would would say, a local cut-up jerk-off type of guy here. I can say that because we're going to go to November 23rd. It's a Wednesday. It's the day before Thanksgiving, 1983. Now, he had just gotten out of jail on November 21st, Michael. He's getting out just in time for the old holidays here. He'd been arrested for criminal mischief and couldn't make bail.

So he stayed in. They had a little trial pretty quick for him, you know, there in a couple days. Not a lot going on. Holidays. So he gets found guilty of criminal mischief and gets a five-day suspended sentence. Send him on home? What's the point of that? We'll keep you for a whole work week if you're bad again.

Don't make me take you back in Monday through Friday now. Depends on the mischief, too. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't know what the mischief was. But it seems like it's probably – he's pretty mischievous. Let's just put it that way. In general, he's always mischievous, even with his father, as we'll talk about here. But by the fall of 83, he started hanging out with what's called a distant cousin. So I don't know what that means.

A distant like a fourth cousin or something related by marriage or one of those guys. A kid named Jeff Woolums, W-O-O-l-l-u-m-s willems wow yeah seuss character that's good yeah jeff willems and because willems can rhyme with a lot of things sure can especially made up like seussy words oh god yeah my um he's full of willem pull them and he came up upon the true and he's walking his ghoul he's walking his ghoul it's the color i threw him new colors and shit polka dots so either way here um he began living with Jeff. Jeff's 18 years old. Okay.

He's his cousin, four years younger. Jeff doesn't live alone. Jeff lives in his mother's house with his mother and his stepfather. His mother, Susan, and his, listen to the stepfather's name. If this doesn't sound like a large, bald white man, I don't know what. Ivan Snow. Yeah. I don't know what Ivan Snow.

Yeah, that sounds like that was that was Ivan Drago and Rocky four's name, like in like the third draft of the script. And they're like, I don't know, snow. It doesn't sound Russian. It's I get it. It sounds big and white and cold, but it doesn't sound Russian. That's a wrestler name, Ivan Snow. And he's like this big blonde guy. It's a terrible wrestler name, but it's still a wrestler name here so either way um they started hanging out and michael ends up moving in with them lucky them they get this

22 year old 22 year old criminal mischief criminal mischief guy mischievously criminal asshole in their house lucky them so um but they become friends and they start hanging out and jeff's you know he's kind of a jerk off kind of kid too he likes to run around and drink and all that kind of shit like every kid that age around there i have a feeling at that time so either way um give you a little bit of uh of a thing here apparently willems uh has a known for having a bit of a temper it's known for having a bit of a temper being a's known for having a bit of a temper, being a bit of a tough guy, quick to fight, that sort of thing.

Willem's father once said that Jeff was easily angered, but he would cool off in 10 to 15 minutes. So he'd blow up and then he'd get over it, kind of a thing. Which, that's good at least. But you can still kill someone in that 10 to 15 minutes. Yeah, 10 to 15 minutes

is dangerous. That's a lot of time. Bad you can still kill someone in that 10 to 15 minutes. Yeah. 10 to 15 minutes is dangerous. Bad things can happen. If you, that, um, his father said, quote, if you said something he didn't,

uh, he didn't much like he'd want to fight and he drank too much. He's 18. He's 18 years old. That's he's drank too much. Um, he relates one incident here where his son actually punched him in the face where he said this is wild he said quote i said a girl wasn't any good for him and he hit me in

the face just plain hauled off and hit me punched his dad i don't think that girl's any good for you whack have that motherfucker pow that's not punch dad words. That is wild, man. That's too fast. Holy shit. That's very fast. And at one point here, I guess, during this day on the 23rd, he's a hot-headed 18-year-old who drinks too much and is known to, for very little provocation, haul off and punch his father in the face. Okay? Yeah.

to for very little provocation haul off and punch his father in the face okay yeah based on all that his father on the 23rd sharpens up a knife for him for him gets it like to get nights and sharp gives it to him knows he's going out and says you know it's illegal to carry that so he's like just so you know it's illegal to have that take this illegal tool with you and leave, but I want you to know. Don't you dare fly off the handle and stab somebody with it. It's illegal just to have it. And with your temper, really, no one should have it. But let me get a good and sharp for you. There you go.

Why don't you take that with you? Good and sharp instrument of faster than 10 to 15 minutes of death. You're already drinking underage, so fuck it. Why not have this too if that's illegal? So this is the 23rd. the the kids are at the house the kids i'm jesper jesperson and willems here youngest adults the youngest adults and they're leaving the house and willem's father had sharpened the knife for him and given it to uh to them and said hey you know you two shouldn't be carrying this but i'll'll give it to you anyway. And that's how it goes. So they leave the house. Okay.

Um, they, they leave the house here around, uh, noon, uh, or they get over to the snow house. They leave around noon.

Okay. Uh, this that's Ivan snow. That's the stepfather and Willem's mother's house. They get there in Willem's pickup truck and spend the day drinking, which is always good. Yeah. From noon on pickup truck and spend the day drinking, which is always good. Yeah. From noon on, they just spend the day drinking.

It's the day before Thanksgiving, though. Tomorrow, we're going to put stuffing on top of this and we're going to be right as rain. It's going to be totally fine. We'll soak it up with turkey. Mom makes a dry turkey. Really soaks up that beer. Really soaks up the high life. Let's get into this shit.

What do you say? That's how they are, though. She's going to get a mouthful of her instant potatoes that she didn't put enough water forget about they're crunchy so the beer's gonna help uh they get they'll swell in your belly though that's the problem where do you hear how much beer they drink by the way over the course of this evening it's fucking remarkable for this i mean holiday night or not this is a remarkable amount of beer for two young men to ingest okay now the night before thanksgiving by the way did i say halloween i meant thanksgiving the night the night i think i said halloween before but the night before thanksgiving by the

way traditionally in every hometown is the time when everybody goes to bars and sees people they haven't seen in a long time. It's just the way it is. It's a drunk time. So that night is a drinking night. But it depends on what your idea of drinking is. Let's say you're going out beer drinking and you're like, I'm going to fucking tie one on tonight. I don't even care if I'm a little hungover tomorrow.

It's all good. How many beers is that to you? Me? Eight to ten. Eight to ten. And that's a lot. I know you. That's pushing it. Holy fuck, that's so much.'s pushing it yeah my stomach's gonna hurt yeah you're really annoying

after 10 beers like you're you turn into a really really different person that's really irritating but it's a lot of beer it's a lot of it's probably i'm probably annoyed with myself so i want everybody else to be annoyed with but the funny part is i'm probably annoyed with myself. So I want everybody else to be annoyed with. But the funny part is, I'm not annoyed with you at all. That's the thing. I'm never annoyed with you like that at all. It's not even that other people get annoyed with you. And I'm just like, oh, let him be.

I don't know what it is. I take your side because you're my friend. So I'm like, fuck you. Ten beers is it's just the volume, the sheer volume. Oh, God, That's so much. It hurts so much. Well, when you move, you hear it sloshing in your stomach. That's a bad sign.

Dear Christ, if I get laid after that. It's gross. It sounds like a water bet. You got to turn music on because otherwise it's sloshing back and forth. Otherwise, I'm going to vomit on your face from the sound. Do you hear that? No. Hear what?

It's like water, but not like going through a pipe. It's like it's just sloshing back and forth. Hitting the side of a bag. It's really weird. It's weird, and then coming back. You know what I mean? Take a box of wine, let some air in it, and then shake it. That's what it sounds like.

I'd rather drink two bottles of wine than ten beers. Because ten beers. It's a lot of. And it swells. It's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot. You got to piss so much.

It's a lot of piss. So they spend the day drinking and running personal errands. Oh, boy. They drink a few. Go drive around some. Drink while they're driving around. Come back. Drink some more. Oh, shit. I got to go do the thing over here. Oh, yeah. They drink a few, go drive around some, drink while they're driving around, come back, drink some more. Oh, shit, I got to go do the thing over here. Oh, yeah, okay, let's get in the car and go.

This is what they're doing. These were wild. This is wild shit. So earlier from this day, from Wednesday, beginning at about 10 a.m. before they even got over here to the snow house they were drinking before that into the night basically into the early morning hours of thursday and i don't mean like thursday at noon i'm talking thursday at like four so from noon wednesday to like four o'clock in the morning that's one session for them they consume about 60 beers in that time period these men. I don't know how you do that. Two. One of them's 18.

30 beers for an 18-year-old. Dude, how much has he been drinking in his life where he can put away 30 beers at 18? You've got to have a tolerance for that. When I was 21, I used to go to my friend's house with a 30-pack for six of us. Yeah. I got a 30-pack. Let's drink it. It would disappear in a few hours, But that's a lot of beer.

60 beers is a lot. Even in a like a 14 hour period. It's still a lot of beers. Like that's a shitload of beer. So that's all they're doing all day from 10 a.m. on. Just drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking. So, you know, obviously good things are going to happen. Clearly.

Yeah. So it's amazing. So, yeah. Willem's here. Reputation of a fighter punches his dad for an off comment we understand him jesperson not really all that different let's let's be honest and really after 30 beers that description fits most people yeah after 30 beers and being up for that long they'll pretty much hit anybody that's's how it works. You're probably going to be criminally mischief. At least mischievous. At least criminally mischievous.

So early in the evening, they go. This is 20 beers in, let's say. They drive to the home of Woolham's ex-girlfriend. Why not? Stephanie Clark is her name in Albia. Why are we going there? We're going there to hang out with her for some reason where they're going to all drink and hang out and drink and drink some more and then drink a little more. And they're talking bullshit until about 10 o'clock at night.

So now they've been drinking for 12 hours. And they all, the three of them, get in the truck and take off together. Let's all drive now she's gonna hang with her her ex and his cousin her ex and his weirdo four years older than us cousin distant cousin who've been drinking for 12 hours and she's like i'd like to get in the car with y'all this is good this is all everybody's got great judgment here i gotta say so um they continue drinking while they're driving around, by the way. This is just it's not like they're pausing to drive. This is going to have a few on the way. Grab two for the road. Absolutely. Let's go. So they made several stops at this point to be after 10 p.m. Where are they stopping? Also, there's nothing open around here. You ever been to Iowa? The whole place closes at fucking 845. Everything closes. Everything but the casinos closed.

That's it. So they basically drive around for the next two hours or so. Okay. Now, 45 minutes of that is traveling from Albia to Derby because they end up in Derby at Jeff Willems' house where Jesperson is staying also. You know, the Snow House is where they end up. Okay, so here they go, Snow House. After midnight, they all continue drinking and, you know, hanging out and bullshitting. And apparently Stephanie Clark's going to stay the night.

I don't see anybody driving her home at this point. So about 2 o'clock in the morning the snows come home ivan and susan the the mother and stepfather of woolham okay they come home about 2 a.m and how do you think they feel about this there is a party in the house uh and y'all got a woman here. Yeah. Well, they feel like, shit, you're fucking A. Let's continue this party. Shit. We were mad the bar was closing. So, hell yeah, buddy. So they join in.

Everybody's drinking, dancing. There's music. They're dancing. There's five people there. Who's dancing at 2 o'clock in the morning with your parents? What's happening? Here's my distant cousin, my ex-girlfriend, and my stepfather. Let's party and dance, baby.

Woo! Middle of the night. All right. Let's get it on. We've got more than the wrong side. They've got the wrong side of 50 amount of beers inside them. Yeah. All bets are off.

That's true. After 50 beers, you start dancing with your stepfather and your ex girlfriend you think it's great your ex-girlfriend looks pretty and your stepfather seems like a cool guy after 50 beers you know what i mean it's fun to hang out with you're like who's that my seventh cousin i love you you're like a brother to me i said you're like a brother, man. I love you. I kill for you. Lee's kin. Lee's kin. Blood's thicker than Miller High Life. You know what I mean? It is.

I tell you what. So. Taste of both. And I tasted both. Both the blood of my relatives and 56 Miller High Lives this evening. That's so many beers. It's a lot of beers. It's so many fucking beers.

So they're all hanging out for about the next two hours. Everybody's drinking, conversing, dancing, having a good old time. Everything is fun, right? Going great. About 4 o'clock in the morning, Stephanie Clark decides it's been a night and, you know, it's 4 a.m. Yeah. She's not used to pounding 20 or so beers in six hours. She's sleepy time. The Cowboys are on in five hours.

I got to go home. She's like 17. She's like, it's time for me to go home, by the way. This is ridiculous. So she should not go home but go to bed. So she goes upstairs to a bedroom to go to bed. So she should not go home, but go to bed. So she goes upstairs to a bedroom to go to bed.

Now, Jesperson, Michael Jesperson, follows her up shortly. A little bit after that takes a little follow after her and they start getting it on consensually. This is all this is consensual at this point here. They're all he starts goes up there. She's into it. They start getting it on up there. Like we said, after 50 beers, your ex-boyfriend's cousin sure whatever let's take a ride who gives a shit you know it's really everybody's hammered here it's 22 and she's 17 so it's oh it's not good it's it's an iowa stretch is what they call that that's what's called an iowa stretch i believe it's a bit much i mean 18

would be legal still not really great but legal 17 that's what you call an iowa stretch um yeah on the back half of 17 it's fine if she's on the if she's on the home stretch it's all right that's the iowa stretch is what we call it so the home stretch of 17 it's pretty legal. Almost. Especially after a couple of 12-packs or so. That makes everything a little more legal. You ever heard of close only counts and horseshoes and hand grenades? Also underage sex.

Also, yeah, a 22-year-old and 17-year-old intercourse is also close. That's the Iowa law. Have you ever read it it says iowa law statute horseshoes hand grenades home stretch of 17 shall henceforth be known as the iowa stretch and be legal all right then so oh boy they're having sex now at some point here during the act um he's had like 40 beers and he can, he can have sex. That's impressive. That's an impressive,

uh, fortitude right there. Wow. His dick just must be rock hard all the time. It just never ceases. So at about 4am, uh, this is all going on.

Once they're getting it on for a little while, at some point, Willems comes into the room here oh no jeff comes into the room and fucking pulls jesperson off of her and says hey not stopping a rape stopping two people from having a consensual sexual relationship if this was not if this was uh against her will this would be a valiant, heroic thing to do. But he's just interrupting two consenting, almost adults, I guess, having an evening here. And he says angrily to, not to Clark, to his cousin here, come on, we're going to talk. Which, this is the time to talk, by the way.

His dick's out man and yeah he's inside of this girl and you're telling him it's time to talk now we're not right we got a chit okay like this is strange and chit-chatting when everybody's had a couple of 30 packs is not all that productive either not prime time no about yeah let's talk in the morning. That seems like a better idea. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max

or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing

up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

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So then Willems goes downstairs, okay? He says, you come downstairs and talk to me. So he actually listens, Jesperson, but before he does, he pulls his pants on, first of all, and he pulls out a knife and opens it up, according to Stephanie Clark, and said, quote, if I have to kill Jeff to win this fight, I will. So, come on out, let's talk. That means let's fight?

That means you should prepare to stab me, apparently. Yeah. I want to talk to you. Those are fighting words in Iowa. Well, I guess anybody interrupting your coitus is fucking. There's probably a mid-coitus fighting statute that goes on as well. I don't know about. You, me, chin wag, front porch.

Let's go, buddy. I was in the middle of something i guess i guess that's a challenge it's a challenge now you can tell he's drunk because then what he does according to stephanie is he puts the knife he opens the knife and then puts it in his right front pants pocket open which wow that can easily slice your pant pocket and give you a vasectomy that was unwanted. It's not really a smart move here. So either way, he comes downstairs, Jesperson. He and Willems meet downstairs and go outside to talk in the truck. In the truck, close quarters. I don't know why they're talking. They're in a house, first of all.

It's cold out, by the way, as we'll talk about, like below freezing. Really? Let's go sit in my truck that's been dormant for the last five hours or so and surely is fucking frigid in there. Let's sit in there. It's more comfortable. So for some reason, that's what they do. Willem's in the driver's seat and Jesperson in the passenger seat. That's how this works.

It's Willem's truck. So Clark, I guess, Stephanie, comes downstairs and watches as she gets herself together, comes downstairs and watches as they pull off together in the truck. So she's like, oh shit, they're pulling off. So she runs back in the house and gets the stepmother and the father there, grabs Ivan Snow and said, hey, you guys come here.

Let's follow them. I think that I think Michael's going to stab Jeff. So he said he was going to. I mean, I don't know if that means anything to y'all, but maybe let's get in the truck and follow behind them and see what happens. Right. They went off a talk fight and so yeah they went they drove somewhere to talk which is probably dumb so uh they do that um they get into the snow's car and they start to follow the truck they're about a block or two behind them uh there and the truck stops that they're watching. Okay.

Michael and Jeff's truck, it stops. And after a minute, uh, Jesperson pops out, pops out of the truck and kind of stomps his way toward the car that is behind them there. Now,

Ivan snow, the stepfather gets out of the car and he runs over to Jesperson and says, where's our boy you know our fucking you know your cousin where's jeff here and uh his answer jesperson's answer is quote i stuck him i stuck him what is this we're just stick him. Cause I go pick him up. I stuck him. So at that point, Ivan knocks fucking Jesperson to the ground, punches him and shoves him to the ground and threatens to kill him.

I'll kill you, you little motherfucker. But he doesn't know exactly what's happened yet. So he's like, let me check on that. I'll kill you later. Okay. So then he, uh,

the mother, uh, uh, Woolham's mother and Stephanie Clark all run over to the truck and look in and they see Willem's lying across the driver's seat bleeding from the chest. Oh, no. They're like, OK, that's not good. Probably bad there. So they lift him to the hospital, to the Lucas County Hospital emergency room in Sheraton, which is about 14 miles from there. So it's not a short trip either. You know what I mean?

Their review would be like, like to see a hospital closer to town. That would be their review of the town. On emergencies, we've got to go all the way to Sheraton. Yeah, that would be bad. With a bleeding, sucking chest wound, you really want to be closer to the other town. So on the drive here, the mother is attempting mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. She can't get a pulse. He's dead in the car, basically.

As soon as he gets to the hospital, he's dead on arrival. He didn't make it from the car ride. He died somewhere along the 14 mile ride uh it's a stab wound to the chest approximately three inches deep it caused uh damage to the heart and bleeding into the sac surrounding the heart so our heart is that close to the surface it's it man oh it's right yeah right it's right there right behind your ribs there and your sternum it's it's it's in there it's right, yeah, right behind your ribs there and your sternum. It's in there. It's right there. So three inches is, do three inches.

It's half a dollar bill, half the length of a dollar bill, and can fuck your world up, absolutely. So at this point, while this is all going on, where the hell is Jesperson? Tell me. They knocked him to the ground, threatened to kill him, then ran over, got willems out of the truck while that happened he ran away jesperson took off yeah he ran away uh where'd he go back to the snow house of course why would you go back there go back and wait on wait on the pussy to show up well no he takes a rifle that he had previously given to ivan snow he gave him a rifle, he takes a rifle that he had previously given to Ivan Snow.

He gave him a rifle that was an old rifle that he wasn't using, gave it to Ivan, and he takes it back now. So he's like, I'm going to take this back with me. I didn't like his attitude. Any other gifts? Shit. What'd I get him for Christmas last year? I'm taking that shit back. So he then goes to a nearby house with his rifle and steals a car okay it's a neighbor's car that

he knows they keep the keys in it so he goes it's he just yeah he borrows their car i guess he got in a locked car and used a key uh but he drives towards sheraton again uh loses control of the car and runs off the road and crashes it because he's been drinking all day that's the problem he's been drinking he's probably a little shaky from stabbings and being threatened to be killed and he's just had sex too he's got a lot going a little shaky legged we'll call it he's got some shaky legs not the sturdiest right now yeah a lot of conflicting emotions and feelings that yeah it'll make you a little sleepy after a few dozen beers and some sex you want a nap you know what i mean that's the ultimate okay it is time next on the agenda to go down not to

run for your life you know what i mean through the cold on thanksgiving eve so he runs a car off the road crashes that he manages to go into another neighborhood and steal another car wow manages to steal another car he's like okay takes that drives out about a half a mile loses control runs off the road crashes that car too it's like mario kart this fucking guy now he keeps hitting those goddamn bananas you can't create this isn't a video game this is he's basically in grand theft auto he's just crashing a car then stealing another one crashing that fuck grab my guns and go over to here i prefer mario kart and he just keeps getting blue shell just keeps spinning around and going over there so he eventually um after he runs this car off the road and crashes it he will talk about what happens i'll give you a timeline here the whole

thing okay so um jesus christ they get to the hospital when they get to the hospital with willems they see it's a chest wound and immediately the hospital calls the sheriff's department because most of the time knife wounds to the chest are you know a police matter they're a police matter usually so they do that they call the sheriff's department so during all this a dispatcher notifies deputy sheriff burton your who went to the hospital to investigate the incident, right? You have to go there and investigate a stabbing. So when it was determined where the incident occurred, Muir contacts another deputy here, Rick Masner, and another deputy and the sheriff, okay? Masner was told to go to the scene in front of the Ivan Snow.

Just go to the house where Ivan Snow lives and collect any information you can. Basically, go there, keep people away from the house, and see what you can find. While he's on the way to the snow house, he asked whether he should stop any traffic that's leaving the Derby area. You know, if I see somebody, should I stop them? It's the middle of the night.

It's a good chance it's probably our guy. It's a holiday. it's probably our guy. It's a holiday. No one's working on Thanksgiving. So while he's asking this, a vehicle, this is fucking amazing, Jesperson passes him going the other way while he's asking, should I stop people? So after the two cars pass each other,

that's when Jesperson loses control of the car and slides off into a ditch and rolls the thing. So he's probably looking at his rear view at the cop to see if he's turning around. Drifted a bit. Boom. He's rolling off there. Overcorrected in the ditch. Yeah. So the cops turned around and saw Jesperson run from the car, which is fucking crazy.

This is a car. This is his second car, by the way. That's the second car. The first car he ditched earlier after crashing that. He only made it about two blocks before crashing, by the way. He stole the car, drove two blocks, crashed, stole another one, passed a cop, crashed that car, too. And then he runs away into the night, into the cold night. So the cop, who's all by himself out here,

watches Jesperson run away from the car and run off into the night. Manzer, the sheriff, waits for assistance to arrive before going after him. Yeah, because he might be armed, man. You have no idea if he's armed and it's the dark night. He could just be sitting in a field waiting for you to walk into it and take it down like a hunter, you know what I mean? So the sheriff then contacts the highway patrol and the Bureau of Criminal Investigation,

the sheriff's department for multiple different counties, the Chariton police, members of the sheriff's posse to aid in the manhunt. Oh, my God. They got like 40 guys are up to go look for him, okay? They also issue a warning to area residents

to keep their homes and vehicles locked. And, you know, your homes, vehicles, beer fridges, and 17-year-olds, keep those all locked up because that's... We got a threat to everything.

Those are his favorite, yeah. We got a threat to everything we got a threat to everything you hold dear if that's what you're into it's this fucking guy yeah so um in addition here the highway patrol sent a plane from des moines to help with the search as well real oh boy the planes from des moines are getting involved now you know they're serious dead ass they are gonna find these motherfuckers now man so then the sheriff said quote we just followed his footprints in the snow that's the thing about running in the snow yeah winter you gotta like get a bring have you ever

seen a movie you gotta get a big branch with leaves to drag it behind you you gotta do the whole thing there's a there's a way to do this and it's not just running through the snow and hiding. You gotta be Spider-Man and swing from trees. Otherwise, don't run, man. Just go hide. You gotta make it so your footprints go up to one spot and then disappear.

Like, you take them in the wrong direction and then you drag a tree the other direction. We know how to get away in the snow. Run around a bit. Oh, yeah. Confuse them. Like a whole lot. Run some figure eights.

If you have extra shoes with you, make it look like there's more than one. Very helpful, yeah. It's helpful as well. Just put those on, run around, too. Run on all fours. Yeah. Shoes that aren't your size, too. Really confuse them.

Like a size 18, just have those on. Like, wow, our killer's humongous he's enormous look out for a giant man on the lookout for a just a huge but like a shaquille o'neal type of guy like a big kareem abdul-jabbar and height type of that's what we're looking for so either way they follow the footprints in the snow the footprints lead to a barn on the Archangel Farm south of Sheraton on Highway 14. I'm sure I'm pronouncing Sheraton wrong. I'm sure it's Cheraton or Cheraton or some fucking nothing. Sheraton.

I wouldn't put it past any pronunciation. I wouldn't put it past people. Who knows? So the cops go into the barn and they find this is what they do. They burst in like they're, you know, oh, we're going they find this is what they do. They burst in like they're, you know, oh, we're going to find Dillinger in there. You know what I mean? It's we're going down and it's going to be a shootout. They don't know what to expect.

They got 30. The whole posse is out there playing, circling around. It's a lot. They burst into the door and he's huddled, crouched in a fetal position in the corner under a pile of lumber and scrap metal. That's what they find. Like a fucking. Is that where he's trying to hide? Yeah, he's trying to hide under there.

He's freezing. He has no feeling from his knees down. He's taken to the hospital for frostbite on his legs and feet. Because he ran through the snow and then hidden a freezing cold barn and never warmed up and hilarious eventually they find him here so now they talk to him and he says they said you stabbed your cousin like we you know three people saw it was just you two in the car nobody else could have done it like you know bigfoot didn't run out of the woods and stab him and run back in we know it was you and he said well yeah i did

stab him but complete accident super weird craziest thing happened let me explain okay you're gonna laugh really when you hear this honestly maybe you should have like two three dozen beers first you'll find it funnier but um we're driving away from the snow's house you know i was banging his ex-girlfriend he didn't like that much so we were gonna have a little chat and he started to argue with me and uh he hit me in the head he jacked me up with his right hand started punching at me while he was driving because that's normal that's how you want to start a fight while you're driving um so they began to argue he said that willems once he you know started hitting him good he stopped the truck and they started to

exchange blows oh which an int an intra truck cab fight is awesome that's amazing you can't that's hilarious those punches man you're taking them you're gonna eat all of them but no one can really cock back or get any, like, it's hilarious. No legs are involved. It's just these little arm punches. That's so funny. You're going to eat 30% power punches all day. It's so hilarious, man.

So they start exchanging blows, and he says that he grabbed the knife. He said the knife was on the dashboard. He didn't have the knife. Meanwhile, Stephanie Clark said he had the knife. But we know this is Willem's knife, by the way. Right. It's the one that his stepfather gave him and said, hey, this is illegal. Here you go.

Have a good night. Take a 30 back with you. Get out of my sight. Get out of here. So he said that he grabbed the knife off the dashboard, Jesperson said, to try to scare Willems into stopping the fight. Like, hey, I'll fucking stab you. Stop punching me.

You know what I mean? So he says at this point, he held it out and said, hey, stop punching. And Willems, quote, lunged at him and accidentally impaled himself on the knife. Okay. He held it out and the guy just went, ah, stuck himself to it. Like he was made of Velcro and he was sticking himself to the wall or something. Like he just, ah, right in the chest and then fell back. You know, I got a magnet in my chest.

It was kind of a suicide if you think about it. I mean, I feel like he wanted to die and he just knew that was the only way um he told me at one point he was afraid to do it himself so i just held it out for him no but he said that's that's literally what he said he impaled himself on the knife so um that is pretty fucking amazing he said he didn't want to fight i she said i tried to get out of get out of the truck at one point. We were fighting. He was punching me.

They said, well, your first reaction was to grab a knife. He goes, no, I tried to get out of the door, but he grabbed me by the hair. Pulled me back in. Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in by the hair. He said at that point, I had no choice but to grab the knife and threaten him with it and then i'll be goddamned if he didn't just lunge at it man it was poof it was wild it's crazy shit man so um he said and the whole reason they said well then this all sounds plausible sure you're drunk two drunk guys getting a fight over a girl that's happened a million

times a knife gets involved a drunk guy can fall maybe he passed out into the knife we don't know who knows but the question is at that point why didn't you jump out and go oh my god right i accidentally killed my stab my cousin like you know he lunged into it holy shit let's get him to you know let's get him help he said well the stepfather knocked me down threatened to kill me when i said i stuck him weird right that he would get him upset at that and then i had to take off he goes i knew they'd be taken to the hospital obviously he goes i only stole those two cars so i could rush to the hospital to see him to make sure he was okay yeah only i'm incapable of driving two blocks i could well yeah i crashed the first one he goes

but that's how that's how determined i was to get to the hospital to make sure he was okay i stole another car and then ran from the cops that's what i mean you fail try try again try try again i was on my way to the hospital on foot when i got just too cold and had to hole up in that barn see that's what happened really a crazy night if you think about all right fellas i'll be seeing you it's like worst night of my life hang on there chief yeah um so um they said that they they found no knife in the pickup truck where the incident occurred but they did find the knife in it was stuck in his chest still at the hospital oh my god he left it yeah they removed it at the hospital that's how they ended up doing it it was just a small folding pocket knife just one of those you know like me or you carry and yeah on the road and shit so uh there um yeah

they said he would they found that there a nurse said that she found uh no heartbeat or respiration when when he got to the hospital so he was dead on arrival um they said that uh by the way when they found jesperson in the barn he had the loaded rifle right near him he was ready he had a loaded rifle and in the car that he stole the first one they found more bullets in there as well so he had it was loaded and he had extras in the car but he only took the rifle and ran away and uh yeah he had it with him in the barn but he was in no condition to fucking put up a firefight i mean he was he couldn't even feel his legs for christ's sake it was over shit's over car yeah you're too drunk to drive a car how good of a shot you think you are let me ask ask you that. How are you going to operate that weapon?

I bet 40 sober guys with guns that have been looking for you got roused out of bed on Thanksgiving morning and are super pissed off about it. They probably are better shots, I imagine. A little bit more reliable. You should definitely not fucking shoot at them. So he obviously goes to jail, clearly, for this, and his bond is higher than he can pay because he can't pay anything.

So at trial, Stephanie Clark's a big witness. She's a big witness, the girlfriend, because she saw him say, I'm not going to lose this fight. I'm going to kill him if I have to. And she saw him take the pocket knife and put it in his pocket. Rightfully so. So she claimed on the stand that they didn't have sex. What? That's what she claimed. But this is she's the only person saying this.

Even the snows said they heard them having sex from downstairs. That's why Woolum's came up to get Clark. Not because, oh, I bet they're doing something because they heard fucking headboard hitting wall up there they're they're loud fucking in somebody else's house loud fucking in someone else's house with like groans and moans and everything like they were there was no you know what fucking sounds like you know what i mean if you're an adult person you've heard fucking before hey that's fucking there's no other sound that sounds like fucking i know what that is yeah that there's fucking isn't it yeah it is heard that before yeah so they uh they so they even say that they were definitely having sex so

and that's not they have no course in this game that doesn't help them to say they weren't were or weren't. They don't care. Either way, the guy killed the kids. So also, she says that he had the knife. She testifies inside the home, testified that that, you know, she saw him put it in his pocket. He says Jesperson himself testifies and says that i never had the knife in the house i don't know what she's talking about that's a big lie she's a liar and a bit of a whore mind you as well i'm just just saying everybody just you know you shouldn't believe

her that's all i'm saying look at her banging all these cousins you don't know what else she's lying about he basically did one of those um and um yeah but that's that's how it goes it's not much of a trial because they basically have witnesses he definitely stabbed the guy right they have witnesses that of what happened there's really not a lot the only thing he can go on is self-defense or it was involuntary manslaughter because he dove onto the knife or there was a third person in the truck that stabbed him which is yeah it's impossible he was real tiny to fit in the cab with us though real tiny man you should have seen middle seat right in the middle just on the hump he don't

even care he used a little lap belt didn't even give a shit didn't care his feet on the four-wheel drive some bitch man told him stop you're gonna knock it out of gear you don't listen so the closing arguments the prosecutor said we clearly have an intentional killing this is not voluntary manslaughter he said that um it doesn't matter if they were drunk because the defense argument was they were so drunk who knows if he fell into the knife if you know jesperson couldn't have known if he actually stabbed him who knows so the prosecutor says remember that jesperson was able to steal two cars and jump out of a car and run away from a cop so great point he wasn't like that blackout passed out drunk anyway he was moving around he said the defendant provoked the fight he pulled the knife

he can't claim self-defense the only thing i don't agree with there is he didn't really provoke the fight no well depending on if you call sleeping with her the well that's provoking yeah yeah but if he would have just left it alone and had sex with stephanie clark and then you know they went to sleep and then that would have been the end of it there probably wouldn't have been any fight so i think the other guy provoked the fight when you literally pull someone out of a situation literally pull someone out of a situation, literally pull someone out of a situation, you're asking for trouble, I think, at that point. Yeah.

When you hear that, yeah. You know there's a... At that point, there's... You literally pulled him out into a new situation. That's fighting sounds, you know what I mean? This could have all been solved with uber like oh my god so much lift anything if the two of them would have just got the fuck out of there nope too drunk going upstairs so they said that he can't claim self-defense if the force used is unreasonable he said you can only use deadly force to resist deadly force. He said and all Woolham's had was his hands.

So and I couldn't even put any leg into it for Christ's sake. They're in the cab of a pickup. It wasn't like he was kicking him in the face. It's all shoulder. It's all shoulder. So Jesperson's attorney said, quote, this is amazing. He said, we don't have a murder here. It's not what this is.

The state will have you believe this is some this is some crazy some murder some predetermined cold-blooded monster of a man sitting before you but i present to you that uh what we have here is a tragic accident quote a tragic accident the result of stupidity sex and jealousy i'll agree with all of those. Stupidity, sex, and jealousy could be the name of this episode. Let's be realistic here. We can still be criminal. Yeah.

He said, quote, she said, talking about Stephanie Clark, she said Mike put the knife in his right front pocket. Mike's left-handed. Why would he put it in his right front pocket if he's left-handed? That's number one. He said, I don't want you to rely on her testimony either, he said, because she's not a credible witness, the Stephanie Clark. She's not. Look at her. Look at her.

Little strumpet. What are you doing? Look at her. Not credible. So they said that how would you like, this is great, how would you like to have the fate of the rest of your life based on the testimony of Stephanie Clark? Little harlot. So they said that the defense is not claiming intoxication as an excuse. It's not claiming self-defense.

What they're saying, quote, what we're saying is that it was an accident. There's no motive. There is no intent. Mike wasn't mad at Jeff. Jeff was mad at Mike. Yeah, but then he stabbed him. Jeff was ticked off for reasons Stephanie denied. He then said the state has a skinny case.

Skinny case. I've never heard it put like that before. I've heard it's thin. They got a pretty thin case. I've never heard skinny before. That's a new one. They got a pretty thin case. I've never heard skinny before. That's a new one. The state is a skinny case. The evidence, the logic isn't there, and the fate of this defendant is in your hands, ladies and gentlemen.

All right. Well, if I'm sitting on a jury and I think he's left-handed, why would he put it into his right pocket? Because he's in the passenger seat. Of a truck. How are you going to pull it out of there? You can't stab somebody from the left you got to go from the right that makes it more premeditated to me fuck yeah if he pulled it out of his left pocket i think he wasn't intending to use it in the passenger

seat of the truck but out of the right pocket and that is the fact that he's left-handed makes me feel like oh that's not yeah not good terrible so case, sir. Yeah, that's not good at all. To me, it's worse. It's very perceptive there. So the judge here gives the jurors five choices for a verdict. First-degree murder, second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, or not guilty. That's it. Those are your options, which is a lot of instructions there.

So they deliberated for about eight hours on this. They come back here, and they announce that he is guilty of, what do you think, Jimmy? First degree. First degree murder, they give him. Wow, they got him. Yep. They said he was visibly shaken by the verdict. One of the reporters said, quote, it was like someone popped his balloon he just shrank down in his seat what it was the first time i saw him shaking over the course of the trial wow popped his balloon he just went he just

deflated that's a good way of putting it they got skinny cases and pop balloons around skinny cases pop balloons sex jealousy stupidity it's a fucking lot of stuff going on here stupidity sex and jealousy has to be the name of this episode right feels like that guy just saw a kid get a get his balloon popped and saw his face got real sad it's like that i used it it's like you're licking an ice cream cone and the whole scoop falls off onto the ground you know what i mean you watch it fall almost in slow motion as it splats onto the hot concrete melting instantly leaving you with an empty empty crispy cone that's what it's like ladies and gentlemen so sad man sad man sad man so uh he's being held over here um he um obviously he's being taken to jail his mother and his girlfriend he's

got a girlfriend that came to trial this whole time goes and visits him at the jail with his mom afterwards and shit no no some other girl that he wasn't banging that night some girl that he was actually with at that time um yeah that's wild so the county attorney said he's pleased with the juror with the verdict and wanted to thank the jurors it was an eight-day trial so he said that's a lot uh the defense attorney said obviously we're disappointed and i don't agree with the jury's conclusion if there was any one thing that damaged our defense it would probably be the testimony of stephanie clark you think yeah it was one thing that damaged our whole case it was probably the evidence and the eyewitnesses that was the problem really obviously besides that

you know it was good but all that damn evidence and people seeing him do it witnesses and the actions of my client real bad the actions and the words of my client as well besides those things i feel like we should have really come out on top he said well real skinny it was skinny he said that um yeah that's how that went um they tried to get her stuff thrown out on hearsay via her saying that because i guess she ivan something happened where she told Ivan Snow something, and then Ivan Snow testified what Stephanie told him, and they allowed that in. That's sort of a hearsay thing, so that later on that'll come up here. But yeah, he's held over for sentencing because he hasn't been sentenced yet here. Um, the cost of the trial, by the way, was about $25,000 and the cost of the appeal process could be about $100,000, which is, uh, that's a lot here.

Um, he, let's see, he has the county jail cost $25 a day to house people as well. The jurors were paid $10 per day plus 22 cents a mile. Okay. That is not a lot of money. So, yeah, that's not a lot. Depends on how far they got to drive. Could be great. Could be real lucrative.

$10 a day? Not an hour. How far are you going to drive? 22 cents a mile? 22 cents? What if it's five? It's a dollar. I made $11 a day this week.

What is this, 1830s? That's fucking terrible. No wonder why everybody tries to get out of jury duty. If they drove from Mississippi, it could be very lucrative. Yeah, I don't think that's where the jury pulls from. No, I don't think so either. I don't think so either. I drove in from San Bernardino, so that's going to cost you.

So he appeals, like I said, on the grounds of hearsay of the hearsay violation, saying that which is ridiculous because that basically says that if that one statement wasn't let in, that Ivan said that Stephanie told her that, then it wouldn't have been they wouldn't have been a conviction. At the same time, he also appeals on the grounds that, OK, first they shouldn't have let that in in the first place, he's saying, that statement. But at the same time, that statement's also very important because Ivan said that, Ivan said that Stephanie told him that Jesperson said he was going to stab him

rather than lose the fight. And Stephanie tells the cops that she said kill, that she said he told her kill. So they're saying there's a discrepancy between whether he said stab or kill. So he should be found not guilty and let out of jail right now. Yeah, because people who've had 30 beers apiece can't remember if someone said stab or kill six months ago. We should probably let him go for that, I think. Yeah, either way, the conversation happened. We just don't know whether it was stab or kill six months ago we should probably let him go for that i think

yeah either way the conversation happened we just don't know whether it was stab or kill so it's the goddamn difference uh they basically say hearsay or not you'd still be in fucking prison stupid we have all this evidence you're a moron keep fucking off and he is he is uh pronounced you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison, no parole for him. Nothing. That's steep, man. Who gots? First degree murder. Life without, baby.

That's it. Yeah, he got it all. They gave him the whole shaft. They gave him more than three inches. We'll put it that way. They went deep dicking on him. The whole sober dick. Yeah.

I feel like I would have been okay with second degree on this one. I probably would be too. These are two drunken morons fighting. Yeah. That's crazy. But he's a danger to society if he drinks that much and he's willing to stab a cousin. He's certainly a danger to society, but I think second degree murder would... Life with parole, I would have been...

Life without parole seems a little steep for a drunken argument like that seems especially because let's say let's say jesperson let's flip the roles let's play say it was jesperson's ex-girlfriend upstairs and he went upstairs and dude was having sex with his ex-girlfriend then he took the knife and started stabbing him that's first i'd be like hey fuck you you can't do that that's crazy that's even though it's not premeditated it's still whatever but this this i feel like is more of like uh when he said i don't fucking kill him before i lose this fight he slurred that bad probably you know what i mean yeah these guys were drunk as fuck and they were idiot like i just feel like second degree i feel like this guy could do like 20 years and get out and get a couple of DUIs and go on with his life probably.

Premeditation takes a split second. If you pick something up with intent to kill, that's premeditation. And that's what they were trying to argue was that there was no premeditation. But, I mean, I think there was premeditation. He unfolded it and put it in his right pocket. That's premeditation. There was at least premeditation to defend himself. So I don't know.

Either way, but there he is. Life in prison, no parole. Have fun. If you like that story, tell us about it. Tell the world about it. Whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars. It helps the show out a lot. Say something nice about the show, too.

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Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in

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