Small Town Murder - #328 - Is Granny A Psychopath? - Barkhamsted, Connecticut

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

This week, in Barkhamsted, Connecticut, when a woman is found, beyond murdered, the only suspect appears to be her mother in law, a physically weak older woman, who has been in and out of mental hospitals for years. But could she have actually done all the horrible things that have happened? When another suspect emerges, the detectives begin to fight each other, over the differing theories. It turns into a mess of theories, conspiracies, and stupidity. Will whoever is responsible be uncovered, or will a seriously sick, twisted killer continue to walk the streets??Along the way, we find out that the northeast is REALLY into haunted houses, that grandmas don't usually beat their victims so severely that an eye pops out, and that sometimes, evidence is more important than ego!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Barkhamstead, Connecticut, a missing eye in a nightmare house that looks like a bloodbath causes a mystery that no one can agree on, including detectives who

have very different theories. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. This is our Halloween week edition, of course. We have two really weird episodes for it. Just, you know, for the holiday.

You know how it is. Fun stuff. As always, not like every week isn't Halloween here in Small Town Murder, but that's fine. Quickly, before we get to all that, just want to say thank you for all that you do for us. Thanks for your reviews. Whatever app you're listening on, five stars, does help a lot. We don't know why. Say something.

It's a thing. Just helps with the algorithm. We don't understand it. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com right now. Get your tickets. Holy hell, if you're listening the day this comes out, it is tomorrow. It's right now. It's right now, the virtual live show.

Or if you're listening to this whenever, it's still available. It's available. It's October 27th. It's available for a week after that. Shutupandgivememurder.com. Our fun, it's just like a live show except you're at home and you know instead of in a theater that's all but you can watch it anywhere in the world you can watch it 10 times if you want you can watch it a few days later if you want do whatever you want with it well

within reason you know don't be too gross about it but do whatever you want with it yeah you know what do whatever you want you paid for it enjoy shut up and give me murder.com is where you get those tickets uh also you want. You paid for it. Enjoy. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get those tickets. Also, you want to get all your merchandise and everything else there at that particular website. And you should also head to patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you should definitely get on our Patreon for the cost of a cup of coffee, everybody. Five dollars a month or more. You are going to get a whole lot for that. You're going to get a

whole back catalog that's very bingeable, whole 150 episodes back catalog, and then you're also going to get, that's bonus episodes, of course, and you're going to get new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder. This week, no different. What you're going to get is, for crime and sports,

you're going to get a tragic tale. Tragic of a NBA number one draft pick overall picture lebron james gets drafted he's a can't miss he's number one and then the 90s gets drafted with all that hype he drops dead from a heart attack from doing too much coke that night think about that that's what happened how bad his hairline gets we'd never have an idea his hairline would always be perfect instead this is the story of len bias and we'll tell you all about that and then for small town murder we're gonna have we just have to do this we wouldn't plan on it but we've done our jeffrey dahmer thing before the netflix series came out and everything but we are going to do the differences between netflix jeffrey dahmer story and real jeffrey Dahmer story and real Jeffrey Dahmer story, what characters, A, didn't exist,

what people they mashed into one person and had them have a whole thing that didn't really happen. When you have a very documented true story and you go, let's just make some shit up, it's amazing to me. So we'll talk all about that. All the things that made James punch a TV. That's about it. Yeah, and good filmmaking, but not good when it comes to that stuff.

We'll talk all about that patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get that and then at the end of the show you'll of course get a shout out where jimmy will mispronounce your name while trying desperately to get it correct so that is what's there now disclaimer quickly this is a comedy show we're comedians uh story is all too real unfortunately every tale there's nothing made up for comedic effect or anything like that and uh what we don't we don't like to concentrate on certain like there's no jokes in violence you know what i mean there's no there's nothing hilarious about someone cutting someone else's head off that's never funny but the idea of i

bet i can cut someone else's head off and get away with it that's kind of funny the the psychology behind that's funny and that's kind of funny. The psychology behind that's funny. And that's kind of where things go. Small towns, a bumbling police force that can't get a murderer caught correctly. All these things are fodder. But what we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why is that, James?

Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. And that's how that works. So if that sounds wonderful to you, You're going to hear a crazy tale. If not, you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together. I don't know. No complaining later.

That's all I have to say. We warned you. But it's fine. Listen to it and relax. Relax a little bit. Everybody lighten up out there. That said, I think it's time to sit back wherever you are, hopefully, and not too public of a place. Let's clear the lungs, everybody, and shout, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, we shall. Do it. We went from Massachusetts to Georgia on our regular length episodes. Now up to Connecticut. Here we go.

This is Barkhamstead, Connecticut, which looks like Bark-ham-stead. Got it. So I assume it's Barkhamstead. We tried to look up the pronunciation, and it was just very weird computer voices that made it even more confusing, that I didn't even think I had it right, even half right anymore. This is in northwestern Connecticut over here. Probably get there in an hour and a half from my house

if we wanted to here. We'll get in the car and we're done and we're going over there. It's about 30, about almost 40 minutes to Hartford, so it's kind of outside Hartford is the closest place. Yeah, about an hour and 15 to New Haven, which is a terrifying city. The only place in Connecticut where you're like, oh, this isn't as nice as I thought.

Is this really good? This isn't good. And about 40 minutes to Bantam, Connecticut, which was our last Connecticut episode, episode 261, while back there, which was Scrap Metal and Sexual Urges. I remember that one. Yikes. That was a gross one. It's in Litchfield County, area code 8 6 0. A little bit of history.

This this is a rural area. This is. Yeah. And especially when we're on when our story takes place, it was very rural. So this area, there isn't a ton of history because they pretty much broke it up into farms. And then everybody stayed there and just passed the farms down for the next, I don't know, 300 years or so. So it's not a lot of like, oh, then this happened, then that happened type of deal here. In the beginning, each person who wanted to move here was granted one acre of this division of land for every 10 pounds he paid in taxes.

So we were still paying in pounds. That tells you how long ago this was. And that's how it worked. You pay 10 pounds, paid in taxes. So we were still paying in pounds. That tells you how long ago this was. And that's how it worked. You pay 10 pounds, you get an acre. And that's how the whole deal was. Then they broke everything else up into other divisions that consisted of larger lots. And they had a lottery to buy those properties. So that's how this all started.

It's like if you want to come here and move to a nice rural area, this is the time to do it. Like they kind of auctioned it all off. But all this land kind of passes down in families for there. The town was first applied for incorporation in 1774. My God. So pre-revolution here. This is absolutely. It was named for Berkhamstead, England, which is about 30 miles northwest of London, which is, you know, there you go. In 1764, it was still listed Berkhamstead or Barkhamstead.

I'm sorry. Along with Winchester and Colebrook in the area were classified as towns not inhabited as of 1764. Oh, they were towns, but nobody lived there or anything like that. The first census taken, though, in 1856 lists 18 people living there. So there you go. Not too many. By 1771, we had 20 families there. Shit.

By 1774, 250 people. Holy shit. It's getting crazy. By 1800, they had 1,437 people here. Tons of people came in. People started to settle the area. And then it kind of dropped off in the 1830s. And it's kind of gone up and down since then.

Now, reviews of this town, not a lot as far as reviews go here. It's a small place and the reviews are very very to the point succinct reviews like specific very like a usa today headline version of it okay like let's not bad let's distill this complicated thing into five words that don't really explain it but you sort of think you get it leave it vague and let me come to my own conclusion that's how dumb people get dumb though as they read a headline that doesn't really that doesn't really reflect the article and they're like i read that though you read it on a headline is what you read and you didn't account for the commas you idiot yeah you didn't even account for that you totally

messed it up didn't get the gist of it. So here's five stars. Okay. I haven't lived in Barkhamstead for long, but it's becoming my favorite place. All the scenic places and wildlife is amazing. It's such a quiet area with a lot, but really nothing going on at the same time. I love it, and I'm glad it's my new home. With a lot and nothing. So yeah, there's plenty of woods and shit to walk around in.

But then also, if you want to go out to dinner, it's going to be 40 minutes in the car because there's no nice restaurant in town. There isn't even an Olive Garden. You know what I mean? It's one of those. It can't have a lot and nothing. That's the thing. We go through this every week with the reviews. People say this, I love how there's nobody here, and I love the solitude.

Sure wish there was a mall. And it's like, no, no, no, you can't. You can't love both of those. You can't have both those things. I'd love a big downtown, although I'd like no traffic. Okay, well, you can't have that. Sorry. I wish this was New York City without New York City.

That's what it is. But then it would disappear when I wanted it to, and I'd hear crickets again and shit. So four stars here. Many restaurants that serve delicious food as well as being affordable. Yeah. That's it. That's your whole review. Succinct.

Any in particular, friend? Nope, just many uh three stars here my experiences have been excellent however not everyone feels this way so no one feels that way about your about your experience their review three stars their experience is a five star but they accounted for other people's shit talking. I'm like, you know what? I've heard a lot of bad things, though. I can't say it's perfect. That's wild.

I've been doing great making a bunch of money, but other people hate that I'm doing it. Not everyone feels that way. So you know what? I'm going to take what they said into account here and knock my review down a bit. I don't think anyone... Reviews are very personal. You're not supposed to take into account what others think, I't think crazy what's going on over here they bury nuclear waste in this area and nobody told them because there's something something's wrong something's happening people

in this town uh 3 587 people reside here this today and it's tiny it's spread out too yeah for a spread out town that's's not a lot of people. Male, females about normal. Median age, a little bit older, 45.6. So about seven years more than up from normal. Everything's slightly above average over the age of 45 in terms of demographics. The more people are married here, kind of less people divorced, less people that are single with children here. It's kind of a family live on a farm type of.

But here you can have a house and have like a few acres and like some rolling hills and then you can work in a city. You know what I mean? But then come home to that. So I think that's kind of the way that works. That's the charm. That's the charm. Race of this town, 96.1% white. It's pretty white.

That's very white. That's very white. 0.1% black. 0.1. 2.2% white. It's pretty white. That's very white. That's very white. 0.1% black. 0.1. 2.2% Asian. 0.8% Hispanic. That's 0.8. Normally it's like 18%. 0.8.

That's wild. 42% of the people here are religious, and it is, as not surprisingly, it's Catholic. 26.6. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North, as we are quite sure of there. What is it? We have 0.3% Jewish, so we don't quite make the Havana Gila cut this week, but that's all right. We got it with Massachusetts. We've been lucky lately with it.

We really have. We've been blessed, and so we can't complain. In this county, Litchfield County. Why don't I say we're chosen? You might say we've been the chosen people, but now, this week, we have to take a backseat to them. I'm going to relax, take a schvitz, and chill out. I'm going to be a mensch about it and not worry about it for now. You know what I mean?

It's okay. Yeah. for now you know what i mean it's okay so yeah uh in this county 46.6 percent voted democratic last presidential election 51.7 voted republican in the last election and 1.7 percent independent unemployment rate here is actually a little bit high probably because it's in the middle of nowhere i would assume uh median household income, is higher than the national average. Median household income here is $81,792. Connecticut has figured it the fuck out, man. Yeah, it's almost $30,000 more than the national average.

Not bad. Cost of living, $100,000 is regular average. Here it's $108,000. So it's not too far out of whack. Housing is $110,000, so that's not bad. Median home costs $322,100. Is that what $110,000 gets you? My Christ.

Yeah, $291,700 is the national average, the median home cost. Yeah, it's the median home cost. So if we've convinced you, damn it, the hills are calling you. The beautiful rolling hills of the lower Berkshires we have for you. The Barkhamstead, Connecticut Real Estate Report. Average two-bedroom rental here is about $1,280, which is just above the national average, within $100, though. Here I found, let's say you just want to pitch a tent, okay? You want to build your own house, pitch a tent.

I found 2.2 acres of rolling hills, basically. It's a nice area. Two sticks of fiberglass through some mosquito netting, and you're in. I'm not going to tell you how to live. I'm just saying, however you want to live, you can do it on this land. $49,000 for that. Wow. Which isn't bad at all.

That seems like a good deal. To get actual land. Yeah, 2.2 acres. That's some room. You could spread out on that. And there's trees and hills. It's pretty. I don't know if you can build a house because of the hills or how hard that would be, but whatever.

Here is a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,447 square feet. It's in nearby Winstead, which is right by here. It's not great. The bathrooms are horrible. It's not a good house. It needs some work. It's got some—HGTV would be like, oh, boy, we can just gut this thing. It's one of those—

The opportunity! Holy hell. $149,000 for that, though. Not bad. That's not bad. It's one of those. Opportunity. Holy hell. $149,000 for that, though. Not bad. So that's not bad. It's almost 1,500 square feet. Next, I found four-bedroom, four-bath, 4,000, T-hole for each and every B-hole, that is.

4,876 square feet. It's on 26 acres of land. Very nice and spread out. But it's a strange-looking house. It looks like a tech company built a house that they wanted to look like was in the woods. That's what it looks like. It's like... What's a square? It's like a square weird house, but it's got, like, strange wood siding shit on it that looks like...

But then the windows are very, like, modern. It doesn't know what it is. It's a weird-looking house. The inside's very modern. It doesn't know what it is. It's a weird looking house. The inside's very nice. It's beautiful. It's fine. $1,095,000. Hey! And then there's one in Colebrook that is four bedroom, four bath, 4,300 square

feet, and it's fucking gorgeous. It was built in 1795. Updated, nice, and keeping with the old fashioned stuff and fixtures. Beautiful pool. It's ridiculous looking. $1,675,000 for that, though.

Yeah, not bad at all. Allison wants to keep it for herself, our research person. Allison was like, I really need to. I hope there's a drastic price cut in that because I really want that one. Things to do here. Holy hell. Of course, Luann's Apple Festival and Classic Car Show. Oh. I didn't want to go to the festival.

It's Luann's. Okay, now I'll go. I didn't know Luann was hosting this year. Now I'm in. Is it Luann's Classic Cars and then somebody else's apples? Or is it Luann's Apple? I think everything's falling under the umbrella of Luann here. I think Luann has got it all covered.

Yeah. So they free warm apple crisp when you get there. Free Aspen apple cider samples. Free face painting. Oh, no, thank you. You can keep that. That's yeah. You don't have to assault me.

Never mind. Free classic car show. Kids activities. Blah, blah, blah. So there you go. There's that. There's the Phantom Fall Fest. Now, blah, blah, blah. So there you go. There's that. There's the Phantom Fall Fest. Now these, oh yeah, bring the whole family and get ready to celebrate Halloween during,

it's basically a park. They have four haunted houses, three scare zones, and themed food and drinks. Great. So it's on lake compounds. So there you go. Then there's a series of haunted experiences yes okay here we go haunted experiences um there's a haunted house that's the spirits of the swamp and it says breaking down in the bayou is never a good thing breaking down in the bayou after dark is even worse will you survive the night?

Connecticut's bayou? It's like a swamp bayou theme, basically. I guess like if in Pirates of the Caribbean your boat crashed before you got to any of the drop-offs and you were just like, oh, that guy on the porch is going to rape me. I think that's what you would be in there. I think that's what they're going for anyway yeah uh next up is scare zone um mask rage like mask with a q u e like masquerade but mask rage i think they're trying to put that in there just covering your eyes and a bird beak over your nose and that guy's gonna finger you i was gonna say while somebody blows you and you eat like a weird a weird plate of

hors d'oeuvres off a paper plate. Something like that. Strange. I'm mixing my knowledge of these sort of things from Eyes Wide Shut and also Always Sunny in Philly. So when you mix those two together, they're two very different viewpoints on the same thing here. That's a haunted house I can get behind. It's different. It's different.

So this says, something sinister fills the air as you enter the Phantom's masquerade ball. Do you face the plague raging on outside or the Phantom and his demonic guests inside? It's not too late to leave through the gates. So this is apparently there's a plague going on. So you're ushered into a house that's obviously very haunted. What do you think? Here we go uh haunted house the root of all evil is the next haunted house yeah dr belladonna thornwood wow she sounds like she has huge tits and a tiny little lab coat like a like alvira in the 80s dressed to like you know

dressed to do some lab samples the nurse from from the Blink-182 cover. Wow, yeah, something of that nature. Has gone mad on her quest for perfection. Now her once grand manor and famous garden lay in ruin. The night brings terrifying sounds and a new creation of Dr. Thornwood's lurks around every corner and rotted door. Do you dare enter her twisted manor? Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

That's actually kind of fun. That sounds interesting. Next is Scare Zone Monster Hunters, and this is in the woods. I don't like that at all. As you know from my house, the woods at night, it just eats light. Even a flashlight, you see two feet in front of you. It's just dead. It's scary.

I'm not going out there. Terrifying. Do you dare to enter the wilderness at night? Jimmy's answer is no. An evening stroll sounds relaxing until you hear the creaks in the nearby trees and shadows begin to emerge from the darkness. Suddenly, you're surrounded by mythical monsters of the night with no escape in sight no those are just deer that's all they are yeah but still or it's some other animal that fucking frightens me in my woods at night you hear constant shit breaking it's all deer it's all this

it's all deer um in new hampshire i saw a porcupine jump out of a tree like a fucking person like it jumped out oh they'll fuck you right in the face they'll get you good they'll put it right in your face dude that's how they don't want anything to do with anything that lives at night in the woods scare zone which is revenge yeah 300 years after their torture and trial the witches of connecticut have returned oh and have taken over lake compounds. You must face the wicked witches. Will they let you live? Probably.

Haunted house, Alice in Wonderland. Will you go down the rabbit hole or through the looking glass? The choice sends you down one of two terrifying paths inhabited by evil residents of Wonderland who'll all be too happy to escort you to the mad Red Queen herself. Off with your head. Okay. Wow. Okay, then.

Off with your head. Interesting. So here's also Haunted House Meta-Evil. Is that medical shit? What is that? It's time to face judgment, it says. Oh, boy. I don't like that. As soon as you set foot

in front of the Inquisitor, you are subject to his demonic interpretation of justice. Now you must endure soul-wrenching torture and venture into his twisted labyrinth of medieval chambers of chaos, bearing witness to never-ending punishment and wondering if there may be some way

yet to escape your dark fate. Well, it's like H.H. Holmes. Jesus, they got some dark-ass shit there. Yeah, so this is a haunted house town. This is a town of 3,000 people. Yeah, they need something to attract people. And they have 11 haunted houses. On like one prop.

It's like a haunted house, like mega store is what it is. It's like a super Walmart of haunted houses broken into sections. It's crazy. A strip mall of just haunted houses. Oh, shit. Each door is another one that's themed something different. A lot of times these people have a lot of land, so that's what they do.

They'll set up a haunted house at certain times. They'll rent their barn out for weddings. This is how rural people make some money. Yeah, my cousin had a wedding, and just to rent the barn, no chairs, no food, not a fucking fork, not a napkin, nothing. Ten grand.

Ten grand. Yeah. Ten grand. Nothing. You want your fucking rustic pictures? It's going to cost you. And you had to clean it. What?

You had to show up beforehand and clean it. They were like, I don't know. It's probably pretty dirty. You should probably go clean it first. Like, are you kidding me? Fuck that. Oh, my. That's crazy.

That's what a barn is worth nowadays. Ten grand for six hours. Well, that's because you want to put it, not you, but it's because people want pictures of me in a rustic wedding on Instagram. So that'll cost you ten grand. Enjoy. Fucking Instagram. Ruining everything. Crime rate in this town.

What we're interested in here, the property crime is less than half the national average. Really? Not a lot of stealing. And then violent crime murder murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime here is about one quarter of the average in the country so three quarters low three quarters low it is a safe town i would say here uh that said let's talk about a fucking horrible murder. What do you say, everybody? Let's get into this.

Um, first of all, uh, some of this stuff I want to give credit to, uh, a not very good book, uh, written poorly, but as good information. It's one of those. Um, yeah. Somebody wanted to write a book that I don't think is very good at writing. Uh, but they had, they went around and got all the information. And then just to put it together seems like a task i think i feel like they found the right story and execution was shit yeah like

i said info info's in there but there's like misspellings and typos and shit and you're like this is a book dude like someone's supposed to look over this before you put it out um but now that i've talked terrible shit about it let me let's let's get us some story help out of it. So it's called The Piggy Bank Murder by Tom Walsh. So that's the book. Okay. Let's go back in time, Jimmy. Want to time travel with me?

I love it. Let's do it. Get the bags. Let's step into the time machine. Twirling back. We're going way back this week, way farther than we usually go, actually. But the story is so crazy, it needs to be told. We're going back to 1965. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. We're talking Brylcreem in the hair. This is pre-hippie. Everybody's got Brylcreem. All the boys and all the guys. Well, Brylcreem or Flattop. Those are the two options that you have. That's it.

That's either 1963 Pete Rose. That's the Flattop, or you have a Brylcreem newscaster do. That options that you have. That's it. That's either 1963 Pete Rose. That's the flat top. Or you have a Brylcreem newscaster do. That's all you have. And black horn rim glasses. Those are the only options for a man to look like. They all look like the Zodiac killer. Rolled up jeans.

Why are the jeans so goddamn long? Everybody looks like, well, that's so as you get taller, you can hem them down. It's to save money. It's left over from the depression i think everybody's jeans are for somebody six inches taller than them it's a it's a glorious time jimmy that's what we're talking about so this is uh 1965 in western connecticut let's talk about a guy here um his name is arn finn a r first name a r n f i n arn finn what is that he goes by arn yeah i would too i always thought arn was short for arnold not arn finn not this one what the hell is that that's bonkers arn finn do you have an

uncle arnold and a grandfather arnold and another grandfather finn arnfin i don't know there's no one else in the family's named arnfin they were like we're naming him arnfin i didn't even know that was a an option of a name no that's that's like calling somebody fucking rob for a long time and then finding out his name's not robert it's robin o'neillia and you're like what the fuck are you? Really? That's your name? Rob-a-no-leal-ia?

That's a weird name. Your name's Rob Field. Really? I've never heard that before. Fucking ridiculous. Either way. Robson? Really?

Arn Finn Thompson. And that's S-E-N. Thompson with an E. Of course. Arn Finn Thompson, of course. 32 years old in 1965. Okay. He's an accountant.

Born in 33? Born in 33, my friend. Jesus. Absolutely. I think he's born in 32, actually. He's not quite that. Not quite. Yeah, I think he's a December baby, I believe.

So 32 years old in 65, though. He's an accountant. He passed all the exams, and he's waiting for his CPA certificate. But he's doing a lot of bookkeeping work. He has a job, and then he has kind of side jobs where he does bookkeeping for companies that only need a part-time bookkeeper. So he does all of that. In 1959, he got married. And he got married to a woman named Dorothy Burdick was her name.

And she will become Dorothy Thompson. And everybody calls her Dottie, of course, because it's 1959. Of course, there's a Dottie. So that's when they got married. So picture 1959 is when is Greece is set. That's the year Greece. That's it's set in 1959. So there you go.

That's that's what everybody looks like when they met. And they danced and they sang how they felt, Jimmy. That's how they did. And you needed to settle a score. You don't do it with fists. You don't do it with guns. You do it with your car. You get in the car.

You do it with jazz hands. Well, you dance it off first. But that usually just builds the tension. And then when you finally have to blow it all off you go right out there to an abandoned canal that's not doesn't have water in it right now there's a trickle down the middle that's it well that's how he got dotty had to race a guy for that's how it works he had to race another guy for her. He won. So they raced for pinks and pinks. That's how they raced for her. That's how it was called.

Slips? No, man, you're a girl. Well, and the pink slip. But we call it pinks and pinks. It's a pink squared we tried for a while, but not a lot of people are good at math around here. So we went with double pink or pink pink, either one, but not pink squared because like

we said didn't really work so anyway um dotty's 30 she's two years younger than him um she graduated in 1953 from gilbert high school which is in the area here um She's an organist at the St. Paul's Lutheran Church in New Hartford. Really? Yeah, she does that. Her dad's name is Asa Burdick. What is that? Asa Arnick or whatever. Arnfin.

Arnfin. Arnick, did I call him? What's the difference? Arnick, Arnfin, it's the same thing. It's Arn. So either way, her parents were the owners and operators of the Burdick Apple Orchards, which and they were very respected residents. They had an apple orchard. So when people go apple picking and they go to their property. So everybody knows the everybody knows the orchard people in the area in the Northeast. Sure. Because people take their kids there to go apple picking in the fall. So it was, and she's, Dottie's considered kind of classy, nice, fine woman. You know what I mean? Upstanding.

Type of woman your parents would want you to marry in 1953. Hell yeah. She comes from a nice apple family. Yeah, sure does. You got old apple money. That's something. Not a lot of people. She got Braeburn money?

She's got like orchard money. That's different. Not a lot of people. She's got Braeburn money? She's got, like, orchard money. That's different, you know? Her money grows on trees, literally. She's got Fuji money. It's pretty awesome, yeah. She's got Gala money, bitches. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

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So, now, so, yeah, that's Dottie. Before marrying Arnfin, she was a teller at the Riverside Bank

in New Hartford as well. So, that was her job. She married Arnfin and back then, you know, when you got married, you had to quit your job

and all that. That's retirement, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, your husband would beat you if you tried to work back then, I believe, is how, I don't know, that's how yeah yeah your husband would uh beat you if you tried to work back then i believe his own i don't know that's how it works so um she is described as a

small woman with relatively fragile bones and delicately built she's very tiny like a bird she's yeah that's how you would describe a bird that you shouldn't crush in your hands if you have you gave a five-year-old a parakeet, you'd go, now, it's small with relatively fragile bones and it's delicately built. So don't try to... It's a robin, son. Don't do that, you know what I mean? Try not to smash the canary if you could.

Don't clap the canary. Is a... Is something. That's another 50s song. There's rockin' Robin and clappin' Canary. They mean very different things. You may now gently not clap the bride. Canary clappin'.

Clap, clap, clap, canary clappin'. That's like, the other one was crunchity crunch. This is clappity clap. Either way. So here he is. Arnfin here um marries her arnfin is of five something not a very tall guy you know five eight or so um pale dark haired he is employed at the carpenter brick company as their accountant or bookkeeper or whatever the hell you want to call it sound hot as shit smit him sound like he's hurling bricks.

No, he's just in a room. He's a tiny, frail... He's not frail. He's pale. Not frail. He's a pale... Pale, number crunching man. Yeah, with his canary wife.

It's nice. By 1965, they have a... or 1963, they have a daughter. Great. Yeah, a little girl is, you know, starting a family, a little girl named Krista. So she's, you know, in her twos by 1965 here. Yeah. There. His work day, the general thing that he would do, he'd start work at about 8.30 in the morning. I almost said 11.30 for some reason, but 8.30 in the morning.

8.30 sounds too early. Let's get him in there about 11, 11.30. Get him in well-rested. Tell you what, have lunch and then go in. Why don't you do that? I think that way you don't have to take a lunch break. It'll be better for everybody. He leaves the house a little before 8.

The office is about 30 miles away. So it takes him about a half hour to get there um he hardly ever comes home for lunch because he usually only takes about a half hour and it takes a half hour each direction so what are you gonna do so he never really goes for lunch and he doesn't come home for dinner he stays out for dinner you know away from home three or four nights a week wow we'll find out yeah well he tells dorothy he's got to work late he's got a lot of work to do you know, away from home three or four nights a week. Wow. We'll find out. Well,

he tells Dorothy, he's got to work late. He's got a lot of work to do. Not only does he have the brick company work, but then he has a couple of side jobs that he does while he's down there too. And, you know, Hey,

I'm making the money over here. And in 1965 you go, okay, dear. And then you take diet pills and, um, you know, vacuum while you're on speed. That's how it worked. And then if you complained about it, the know vacuum while you're on speed that's how it worked

and then if you complained about it the doctor would give you cheer up bitch that's what you'd get as we talked about so and then he understand how you can as a doesn't sound like arn wants to be married well it's funny yeah he can come home at like nine o'clock and sit and drink booze and everybody's fine with it like that's the 60s's very weird. What a great time for a man. If you're a guy, it's a very easy time for a guy to, you know, you have to work. That's all you have to do. They'll say, he just works so hard. You know, that's what they'll say.

Outside of that, you really didn't have to do very much except for work and keep that lawn mowed, and you were fine. Nobody cared otherwise. Put on some short shorts with tall socks and get out there. You put dress pants on to mow the lawn. I mean, Jesus Christ. But yeah, keep the lawn mowed, the car waxed, and then that's fine. That's your job. It's weird. So he would tell Dorothy that he had to work late all the time.

And so she would have the baby. He left at 8 in the morning and she'd have the baby. He'd come home sometimes 8, 30, 9 o'clock at night. She was just still with the baby. She had a car, so she wasn't trapped there. It's a rural area, as we'll talk about. On this street, there's like two houses. So not a lot going on on this rural area street. So she really only traveled to the like to go to the store in town would be the only place she'd go. She went or maybe to her parents home possibly to visit them she'd go to the hayes store all the time it was the only general store in east heartland

and it was owned and operated by like several generations of family it's one of those basically they had uh norwegian things there that she liked they like was like, what's Norwegian? And they say, including reindeer meatballs, fish cake things, fruktkompot, Norwegian fruit desserts, and some apricot prune thing, which sounds pretty gross.

Either way... Norwegian food doesn't sound appetizing. No, that's where she went grocery shopping. So, I don't know. Maybe that's why I stayed out three or four nights a week. Every fucking time I come home on time, we're having Norwegian food. I don't want reindeer balls.

I don't want them. How's that? It's hard to crunch numbers all day to come home to eat fucking Santa's friends. Yeah, I want none of what this is i please jesus christ tired of eating fucking she rudolph is gross so yeah i guess apparently she has a very strict routine uh dotty does here her mother said that her daughter telephones her every single day at 8.20 in the morning. Yeah.

8.20 and then at 10.20 a.m. And then later at 3.50. Three times a day she's calling her mom? She calls her mom every day three times a day at 8.20, 10.20, and 3.50. Those are odd numbers. Not around 8.30, around 10.30, and around 4 8 20 10 20 350 that's how fucking very scrupulous she is dotty um so yeah they um um now on one day here was that we'll talk about june 15th 1965 um she calls she gets the 8 20 and the 10 20, but then doesn't get the three 50 from her.

And she was like, how dare you not call me for the three 50? Jesus Christ. Um, yeah. So, um, she had special times for doing certain things. Her mother said all the time she'd have lunch at 11 50 AM. She's like a, she's like a television programmer or something like she's very, we need to cut. We need to get to commercial break. It's eight 50. We're going into the fucking bottom quarter of the hour we're really up against it what is it yeah we're up against it come on pick it up here um she'd feed her daughter five minutes after that apparently for some reason and then put krista in for her midday nap, Jimmy, 1.15 p.m.

That's it. She schedules like a high school schedules each class. Yeah, it's really weird. It's like a bus schedule. Every 15 minutes? Yeah. She used to work for Greyhound, sounds like. So then she would wake the child up precisely 3 p.m.

So 1.15 to 3 p.m so 1 15 to 3 p.m hour 45 so every day when if you just sit around and you have every day with this baby though you probably start to get in this routine where you're like they she needs exactly an hour 45 of sleep or else anymore she's all grumpy any less she's all grumpy so that's what it is with kids they're the same if they're tired or or overslept either one so that's what it is with kids they're the same if they're tired or or over slept either one so that's what she does though they the house they live in here kind of need to describe the house because this has been what they've been working on for a while now um arnfin spent all of his nights and weekends when he wasn't out having non-norwegian dinners on the road here. Right, right. He spent all of his time working on the house. And it's a small Cape Cod house. It's 24 feet by 34 feet are the dimensions of the house.

Yeah. You know, nice clappered exterior, one of those deals with the stone front and things. Pretty nice. But they're finishing it up. They've been building this house. It had a nice floor plan, dining room, two bedrooms and a bathroom on the first floor with a living room. The second floor had two bedrooms and a bathroom. And then also a converted – one of the bathrooms and bedrooms is converted into an apartment, like a little mother-in-law suite.

Oh, cool. Yeah. For Arnfinn's suite for Arnfinn's mother. Arnfinn's mother is Agnes Thompson. We'll talk about her. Is she with you? Yeah.

She's recently moved in. She moved in at the very beginning of 1965. And we'll talk all about Agnes because she's quite the character there. But back to the house quick. There's a full-size basement also that you can walk out of, one of those that has a door that you can leave. And Arnfin built it pretty much by himself, the house. Really? All the – any kind of – everything except for heating and plumbing work.

That he doesn't – Awesome. That's hard. We all know that. You can say, okay, I can measure this and I can cut this and I can nail these things together and that looks like it'll hold. But when you're talking about plumbing, you're like, oh, God, if I fuck this up at all, everything's ruined. It's like this is a disaster. You really got to know what you're doing if you're just going to start installing plumbing in the fucking ground.

I got to put a P-trap underground, too? How come nobody tells you that? Yeah, one thing's loose and now there's a huge leak and then your house will rot into the ground it's not good so he hires a uh the heating and plumbing work is contracted by a local firm uh a guy named toby solberg is the guy and his wow this must be a norwegian area or something because his first name is thordjorn goes by toby t j t h o r d j o r n thordjorn that's thordjorn right yeah it is yeah that's thordjorn solberg so i don't know man they call me toby because it's easier than thought because i said thordjorn and people just their eyes went

fucking what thordjorn I can't even spell that based on what you just said let's go by Thor his name is Thordjorn Thor isn't his name drop the door yarn and go by Thor I'm Thor Solberg that sounds tougher than Toby Solberg you got J-O-N in there you just be John God wouldn't you? Would you rather be Thor or Toby? I mean, if you're a guy, go with Thor. Good God. Thor's right there. It's right there. Now, this company, very good reputation of this company.

They do good work. And he knows, Arnfin knows old Toby. I'm calling him Thor from now on. He knows Thor because Thor used to be his landlord before they built this house. That's how it worked. He used to rent a place there. They rented a cottage behind the Solberg property back when they first got married in 1959, Arne, Finn, and Dottie. And they remained there until they moved into their new home, which was they were building.

This is their dream home they're building. It's not a giant, massive dream home, but it's what they wanted. It's exactly how they wanted it. Also, Thordjorn, his son Harry, who's a high school student, also helps in the business after school and also helped out doing a bunch of the things like that, a bunch of the heating and plumbing. And during summer vacation, Harry is his name, Thor Jorn's son. Harry would, during summer vacation, would help Arnfin with the framing of the house from time to time.

So one of those. He's not the brightest guy, Harry. No? No, he's no Thor Jorn. We'll put it that way. I mean, few are, honestly, but Harry is known as kind of a low IQ kind of a fella. He is, at this time, in his sixth year of high school. Oh, boy.

He's 20. He's still in high school. What is happening? He's not very bright, Harry. That's what's happening. He's not a real bright guy. Nice, but not bright. Works for his dad.

Drives a 59 Ford car. This is his car that he drives around black there. So now we'll talk a little bit about Agnes Thompson. Mom. Arnfin's mom, Agnes. She's 64. Like I said, she moved in in the beginning of 1965 with Arnfin, Dottie, and Krista. And before that, you say, where'd she move from?

What happened? Well, she moved from the mental hospital into their house. Oh. Okay. Yeah. She has had, at some point. Tough go, huh? Okay, yeah.

She has had, at some point, in the last 20 years, Agnes has really lost her mind, pretty much. Everybody said she kind of lost it. And goes, periodically, she's in a hospital, in a mental health facility, periodically, from time to time. Do we know what did it? We don't know why or anything like that. I don't know. World War II fatigue. I'm not sure. But it's been about.

She's Rosie Rivett. She was rooting for the Japanese Empire. I don't know. I'm not sure what happened. But pretty much since the fall, since V-Day, it's been V-D-Day. It's been, you know. It's been a mess for her. It's been a mess in and out of institutions

and uh back and forth and uh that sort of thing she's just has problems though she's never like you know like robbed a liquor store or anything she's just got problems uh mental problems uh but she's out of there for about six months and agnes and dorothy get along well enough but they live in the same house and anybody who's ever lived with their mother-in-law it's you know even if they're great people it's still your mother-in-law you know you're like you're great it's not easy so the these people here though they're they're not exactly tight or close dorothy and agnes but it's tough to get closer and tighter when this woman's got fucking mental issues. That's the other thing,

is they don't know how much of that has to do with that. So June 15th, 1965 is the day that Dottie's mother gets the 820, gets the 1120, but then that 350, where's that? No call.

They don't get a call. So she calls, no answer over there. So she's she's like oh if she was going out of the house she would have told me about it what the fuck man this is ridiculous she's actually like kind of she's a little upset a little miffed at dotty that she would you know just be irresponsible like that so on this day um our guy arn finn here he comes home from work, uh, you know, pulls in the driveway here. Um, he left for home about five 30. He got the mail on the, stopped at the post office on the mail.

I got the mail at about six 10 and then went right home. Okay. About a few minutes later, he is pounding on his neighbor's door. Oh boy. The Statlers are their neighbors, and they're just in their house relaxing, about to eat dinner. And all of a sudden, you hear not just a knock like, hey, you want to buy some fucking magazine subscriptions. It's something. It's holy shit. Yeah, there's what's on fire type of knock.

Holy fuck. And in this area, people don't just knock on your door. It must be somebody you know, probably, because it's in the middle of nowhere. So they look out and they see it's Arnfin. Arnfin lives down the road. So they go, fuck, Arnfin looks like something's wrong. They open the door and Arnfin screams, quote, Dottie's dead in the backyard and I can't find the baby.

Oh, that's an emergency. Wow. There's so much. Where do we start with that? What do you address first? Well done communicating the actual issue. Yeah, that's good. And that's great. That's one thing actually, though, that is actually very telling of what people do is when they call 9-1-1, they've done huge studies on 9-1-1 analysis calls of basically they can tell if you did it or not by what you say in your 9-1-1 call. Yeah. Your communication is very telling of what's happening and what's happened. Exactly. Someone who wants help will say exactly this, Dottie's dead in the backyard. I can't find

the baby. They're going to give you the facts. Here it is. They're going to start out. Here's my address. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Elm Street. Dottie's dead in the backyard. I can't find the baby. Holy shit. I can't find the baby. That's what they say. Also, we're seeing the baby. Yeah. Repeating yourself isn't good. Um, asking for help because you're, you want to ask for help. That's the point. You're trying to get them, make it easier for, to give them help. That's the point. You're trying to make it easier to give them help. You're giving directions to your house, whatever it is, to try to make things quicker. So that's a good sign. He didn't come up and say some weird shit like, you know, I was walking into the backyard, weirdly enough, and just turned the corner casually.

You know, I looked over at this, and what do you know? My wife was dead. He just said. He doesn't start with, it was self-defense. No. That's a headline. Daddy's dead in the backyard and I can't find the baby. OK, these are two problems to work with.

I will start that paragraph. So now they're like, holy shit, Mr. And Mrs. Stadler here like Jesus Christ. They jump up from the dinner table and they, you know, fucking a they grab their they grab them and they're like, to control yourself what's going on and they said tell us what happened like calm down because he's freaking out so he starts telling them what he found back there and we'll talk about that in a minute um as soon as mrs stadler hears this overhears it at the door she immediately calls the state police yeah obviously and then they all go across the road to the to the house to arnfin's house to investigate they don't wait for the cops they go to investigate because they're looking for the baby

at this point so you know that's investigation be damned let's find the baby so um now dotty when they find her is lying on the ground in the backyard there's a a sun deck they're building in the back it's not finished yet it doesn't have um it's just the deck part at this point it doesn't have stairs leading up to it they've been using a step ladder oh jesus to get up and down elevated landing that's all it is at this point yeah there's no anything like that because it's just not finished yet so they find her that's where she's dead out there and we'll tell you all about it in a second here but on the landing i sort of kind of hanging off the landing as we'll see there's an electrical cord involved and there's some this is a brutal scene man this is this is brutal so um either way

mr statler runs around um searching the house for the baby yeah Yeah. You know, we'll talk about it. The original thought is, because he says he came in, looked for Dottie, couldn't find her and thought maybe she's out back with the baby. That's what, and then she, he saw this and he said,

oh my God, maybe somebody attacked her in the backyard and then the baby wandered off into the woods. So that's, that's the thought here. And that's the Stadler's don't know. They're just running around trying to find a baby. This is trying to put a fire out with a fucking thing of Visine.

You know what I mean? You're strategically trying to look where to put drops of water on a fire. What do I do here? There's a lot going on. So eventually, though, Mr. Stadler, in the last place he looks, finds the baby safe and sound upstairs with Grandma, with Agnes, sitting up there just hanging out, calm calm as can be calm as a lamb so he's like okay well that's problem a solved that's good helpful baby's alive that's helpful uh mother's not dead that's good right nana's got him

absolutely um so the police when they show up right away, they say, well, where the hell are you today? Obviously, they start asking him questions like that. And he said he was at work with fellow two fellow employees that were with him all day long. Arnfin said he left for home at about five thirty, stopped at the post office, collected his mail at about six ten and went right home. Said he parked his car in the driveway entered the house through the front door and went through the hall into the kitchen and um next he says so they're like so you entered the kitchen was there anything you observed and he said yes a pool of blood it was blood all over wow there is blood fucking everywhere i'm talking everywhere and there's good reason for it. Um, so they say it was all

over the kitchen. It was all over the floor and furniture. He said on the floor, on the counter, on the furniture, everywhere. Uh, they'd later on find an eyeball, Jimmy. So that's not a good find. Nobody wants to step on the eyeball. You know what I'm saying? So that means somebody's missing one. That's the problem. Um, They said, well, you saw the blood. What did you do? And he said, I went upstairs. I asked my mother what happened. And they said, your mother was upstairs.

Now, he didn't see the baby, though. The baby wasn't with his mother when he went up to say what the fuck is going on in the house. Because he saw the blood, went up and asked his mother what's going on, and the baby wasn't around. And the mother said, i don't know she said uh she thought dotty had gone with her brother and left that's she's like i don't think dotty's even here so he's very confused and somehow agnes comes up with the baby later on so that's that's weird um so he said at that point after they'd seen the body and all that, he went downstairs to call Dottie's mother and to tell her what's going on, which is call the cops first. You call her mother first. Why are we calling mom?

Yeah. So she called Dottie's mom, Annie, and there's obviously the regular three times a day call that she thinks something's wrong anyway. She thinks something's wrong anyway. And so she said he told Dottie what happened and told Annie what happened to Dottie. She said Dottie said she hadn't heard or Annie said she hadn't heard from Dottie since the morning. Annie starts crying and says to call back when you find something out of what's going on. Then he said this is before they find the body. He hasn't found the body yet.

He's talked to his mom. He's called his mom. He's called Annie to say, do you know where Dottie is? And she said, no, she didn't call me. And she's all crying. Call me back when you find her. So Arnfin said, then I take a good look at the room and I could see a trail of blood going out to the dining room. It led out to the glass doors onto the porch.

So now he's just following a blood trail here. Again, police probably, but you don't know if your wife is alive and injured, though. That's the problem. So you want to help her and find her if you're a decent person at that point. So he said, I looked down and I saw her lying there once he got out on the porch. And he said, on the ground below the porch and it was um basically they asked how far off the off a perpendicular was it from when you observed her to the top of the porch when where you were standing what's the distance between her

body and the porch and he said about eight feet jesus that's a long drop and they said yeah they said that's when you saw her. And he said she was right there on the edge of it. She was like on the edge of the sun deck. Yeah. So anyway, he ended up going around to the front door once he found her. Because he couldn't go out to leave. He went back through the house out the front door because he said that it was a drop down.

He didn't want to jump. I think if you find your wife kind of dangling, I think you jump down eight feet, don't you? Eight feet is not very far. That's not a big jump for a 32-year-old. I could see if he was 75 or something. But there was a stepladder and he said he was going to use that, but he was a little shaky at the time. So he didn't want to try to use the stepladder. Bullshit. Again, you jump off if the stepladder is he said he was going to use that but he was a little shaky at the time so he didn't want to try to use the stepladder bullshit again you jump off if the stepladder shaky who care you throw that thing aside and go run to your that's well you can slide your belly over and kind of

drop yourself down with your hands yeah it's just a two foot drop it's like a three yeah that's what i mean even if you're short it's not that bad of a drop i don't know what the hell this guy's doing instead he went all the way through the house out out the front door and around, which is very weird. Um, and so he did that. And, um, at that point he said he touched her and she was cold and, um, everything like that. And they said, was she dead at the time? And he said, Oh yeah, she was dead. And he said, that's when he realized he hadn't seen his daughter around because he was distracted by the blood. He started calling for her and got no response. And that's when he ran across the street to the neighbors, got them. They came back, looked at the body and, um, and dude went and talked and found the baby,

helped him find the baby. So, um, Stadler's here. Uh, Carol Stadler said the neighbor, uh, said she better call the police. And, um, they, they did and, uh, called the police and they're back there waiting for the police at this point. So either way, they found the baby, the baby safe. What they'll find out is that Dorothy Thompson Dottie was apparently ironing in a small room off the kitchen when she was attacked here. Now, do you know what a nail set is? Yeah.

I mean, you go to the manicurist and get it done. Exactly. That's what I thought, too. That's why I had to clip out what a nail set was, because I'm like, what, like a full set? We doing fills? What are we doing here? Sorry, my mother used to do nails,

so I know way too much about that. So, yeah, they said a nail set here is um it's a it's a tool a nail sets a metal tool used to finish in carpentry work measuring approximately three inches in length and similar in appearance to a ballpoint pen yep it's the thing that pushes so if if the nail goes in it's for like brads and such you got to get it deeper so that you can finish the wood so that it disappears in there. Exactly. So you can flush it. So once a nail is driven into wood so that the head of the nail is within approximately

one thirty second of an inch from the surface, the pointed end of the nail sets placed on the head of the nail and you hit it with a hammer, drives it below the wooded surface and then you could fill it with wood putty and it looks all smooth. There you go. So a nail set. That's important to know what this is because it's involved in this murder unfortunately oh my god there's bad things involved in this murder jimmy um okay let's see state police captain thomas o'brien and uh dr owen murphy the medical examiner respond to the call yeah dotty had been stabbed in the back, throat, and chest with a large meat carving fork.

Oh, the two prong. The two prong that you would hold with the turkey in place while you carve it. One of those. Her skull was crushed. Yeah. Skull crushed. One of her eyeballs had popped out and was not around. And the other eye socket completely collapsed. That side of her face was completely crushed in and the other eyeball was not in her head. brutal um then uh they figure out initially she was also hanged by the neck with an electrical cord while the body was suspended over the edge of the sun deck someone hung her off the side of

the sun deck with a fucking electrical cord after after that's after after they crushed her skull to a point of an eyeball coming out and the other side being crushed in and stabbed her several times all over her upper body, head and neck with a giant carving fork. Somebody is mad at her. That's what I mean. Apparently, the weight of her body was too much for the kind of a makeshift noose that they tried to make out of an electrical cord, which was attached to the deck by the nail set. make out of an electrical cord, which was attached to the deck by the nail set.

So when they pulled the nail set out, the body drops about 10 feet to the ground after that because she's hanging off and then she just falls to the ground once it pops out. So it was being held there. So that's wild. Somebody drove the nail set through the rope, through the electrical cord into the wood. Yeah, to keep her there. That was the staging of it, basically, it looked like. Fascinating. She's hung off the side of a deck by a fucking electrical cord.

Right. Which is terrifying. With a skull crushed like that, wounds all over her. It's horrible. The doctor also said that the blows to the skull were made with a small sledgehammer oh like a five pounder fuck it's a four pounder is what we're gonna find here um also the stomach and lower part of her body even we're talking lower thorax region here yeah was crushed with a rock why they found a 19 pound boulder nearby that they believe with blood

all over it that they think that's it was repeatedly bashed and crushed her all of her fucking hips and everything like that with this giant rock what could she have done this is fucking i mean dude this is so much this is as horrible as you can get i mean this she's killed three times right four skull four then the rock and then hung off the side of the thing four different murders in this one murder like what dude this is did she like this is what they did to omar's boyfriend on the wire you know what i mean this is literally what they did to him like they found him when i popped out and shit but honestly it was less brutal it was he was less fucked up and you know he was snitching

treating her like a like a dictator that got their country into war yeah this is goddamn insane um so they said that they figured out she was ironing because there was a shirt partially ironed still on the ironing board she was halfway through ironing one of arn finn's shirts there um three of the five rooms on the first floor were splattered with blood everywhere. Spattered and spatter is the official, but there's a shitload of it. I'm calling it splatter because it's like it's fucking splatter, not even like a scientific thing. Large pool of blood on the kitchen floor extending to the adjoining rooms and onto the sun deck. That's how much fucking blood is here.

It's obvious from the streaks that the blood body was obviously dragged through the house onto the sun deck. That's how much fucking blood is here. It's obvious from the streaks that the blood body was obviously dragged through the house onto the sun deck. And you can see where how it all happened. You can see the progression from ironing to being hung off of the deck. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to

grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts so yeah stabbed in the back and elsewhere with the table and carving forks they figure there's multiple forks involved too here large ones beaten about the head with a hammer small sledgehammer and then hung by a cord suspended from a sun porch and beaten with a fucking rock as well so this is um this is some shit man um so he at some point during all this too when they were upstairs he gets the baby from his mother gets krista and then he gives a blanket to his neighbor and says cover her up out there go put this blanket on her cover her up which is just an instinct people have with loved ones they want to cover them and they don't want

them to be exposed to the you know nobody wants that that's terrible dignity you want to retain the dignity yeah and then at the same time also murderers do that too to cover up their like a like a dog you know putting dirt on his shit you know what i mean it's the same thing so uh either way um they come and uh the officers go upstairs and they escort agnes and krista downstairs uh agnes is still holding krista and um now they ask the other guys here stadler and um they talk to stadler a lot because he's not involved in this. You know what I mean? He's the neighbor.

And her husband, yeah. Oh, so they're the neighbor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they ask Stadler about what Arnfin did and said. You know what I mean? Because obviously he's the number one suspect at this point. He found her. So they haven't checked his alibi or any of that stuff.

So they don't know if he's completely bulletproof on that. So they just need to eliminate him right away. So they asked Stadler what did, because he found the baby with Agnes. They said, well, what did she say when you found her, when you found Agnes? And apparently Agnes said to Mr. Stadler, quote, is she dead yet?

That's what she said when Stadler opened up the door. Is she dead yet? Oh, boy. That's the first thing. So that is fucking weird. Yeah. And he said, quote, later on, they said, did she really say that? And he said, yes, she volunteered that information right out of the blue sky.

He just said hello. And she said, is she dead yet? Which is a little suspicious. Another state trooper came and assisted the doctor in removing the body from the yard. Seems like, no, that's not what she would do. At this point, you get about six homicide detectives to fucking cordon this bitch off. And then in ever smaller circles come closer to the body and look at it for a couple hours and make sure your crime scene's done yeah they had one

cop they brought in a fucking doctor to go yep that's what happened bring her out and then just fucking moved her along you feel like you you're exhausted do we have any more film yet keep taking pictures till we don't have any left. Yeah. What the fuck, man? They like immediately cut her down from the cord, pulled the nail set out. No, don't do that either. Because there could be valuable evidence on her that you're knocking off. It's this is important shit. So either way, they he said that when they got there, they said they couldn't find the baby.

Obviously, the guy he was explaining to the cops, Arnfin was, that we couldn't find the baby. I was looking for the baby and all that kind of shit and whatever. So now later on when the cops are at this time, the cops talk to Agnes. And Agnes acts like she has no idea what happened in this house at all. This had to be so loud, Ag. What the shit? And she told her son that she didn't know. She said she thought Dottie went with her brother somewhere.

And then she tells the neighbor, is she dead yet? So there's a lot of different things going on from her stories already. Just from talking to a few people. Now, they ask him, they ask Arnfin, is there anything missing in the house? Look around, which is the exact opposite of what you want someone to do. You want a potential murder suspect to go ahead and have access to the murder scene and go, really traipse around, though. Get your footprints everywhere. Try to touch as many things as possible.

Touch a lot of things. Can you lick something? If you find a fork, pick it up, maybe jizz on it, stick it up your ass. Really befoul it is stick it up your ass. Really befoul it is what we're getting at. We want to have no physical evidence whatsoever. Any serving forks. Really give yourself a COVID test with it.

Just throw it out in the woods. Tell you what, just chuck it out in the woods. We don't even want to look at it. So, again, this police work is terrible. And it's 1965, too. There's not. And it seems like the last 40 to 50 years, once serial killers started in like the 70s, cops figured out we have to get organized in how we investigate dead people. Like, we have to have like a fucking plan and what we're going to do.

We don't just show up and go, wow, that's pretty disgusting. Well, get it on out of here and we'll uh mop start mopping that shit up that's gross i think they're actually trying they stocked in california caught a serial killer in no time flat and then didn't even like brag about it that's how that's how advanced we are now yeah like it was so low key that they caught that fucking guy just this weekend they caught him well especially shit now they have touch dna so now it's now you get doesn't even you don't even Like, it was so low-key that they caught that fucking guy. Just this weekend, they caught him. Didn't say shit. Now they have touch DNA. So now you don't even have to fucking jizz on something.

Now you can have just touched something. A couple of skin cells. We got you. No fingerprints. You leaned your back of your hand on it. You're fucked now. So between that and cell stuff being so exact and you documenting everywhere you are and everybody having a GPS in their pocket. How would you not catch murderers now?

You almost have to fucking. This guy was just wandering around shooting people. Not even like no sexual aspect of it or anything. Just like shooting people and walking away. They caught him. That's wild. It took them six months. But they caught him on Saturday.

Didn't say shit until yesterday. And they're like, yeah, we got him for everything. So it's going to be good. That's it. That's it. It took them six months, but they caught him on Saturday, didn't say shit until yesterday, and they're like, yeah, we got him for everything, so it's going to be good. That's it. That's it. All right. Well, good. Good for you. I don't know how the fuck they did it.

They're not even saying. They're just like, yeah, we got him. It's done. We got him. No worries. All right, then. Streets are safe, everybody. Unbelievable.

Turn your porch lights off. Okay. Unreal. Everyone return your Dobermans. It's lights off. OK. Unreal. Everyone return your Dobermans. So it's all fixed. Yeah. All fixed. That thing's going to shit a lot.

You can tell you that. You don't even like that dog. It's got a weird thin head. So they they say, is anything missing at all? And the only thing he says it's missing in the entire house that he can figure is a piggy bank no a plastic he describes it as pink plastic and about a foot long piggy bank it's a fucking pink pig made of plastic it's got 11 in it all this for 11 bucks he puts his it's it's for his daughter krista and if he has change at the end of the day he'll throw it in the piggy bank sure

that's how it works and uh it's for krista to do whatever the fuck so they said it was there you're sure it was there when you left in the morning and he said I think it was on the coffee table it was either on the coffee table or on the uh raised hearth fireplace one of the two around there so um they they said but it's not here now and he said I can't find it anywhere nowhere here so he said I used to give my daughter some coins. She would put them in there. And they said, do you know how much money was in there? He said, Jesus, I don't know.

It's a fucking bunch of change. He'd say somewhere between maybe $20 maybe. Somewhere between $15 and $25. Who knows? It's coins. Like you don't keep track. He said, it's all coins and everything like that. So they asked him, what did you do after you got Mr. Stadler?

And he said, I called Dottie's mother. And they said, you called Dottie's mother? He said, yeah. They're like, okay. I guess the cops had already been called by the people across the street. So at that point, he's making notifications now. He's not even bothering with that. Um,

and they said, well, would you tell her? He says, quote, I told her she was dead. I guess I wasn't too tactful. I don't remember what I said,

but I told her Dottie was dead. Hi, you know how you've been looking for Dottie? Well, she's dead. So, you know, there's that.

Remember how I called you five minutes ago, said I can't find her good news bad news uh not good yeah she's not in good shape so um yeah he says that they said did you remain in the house for a long length of time after you called the mother and everybody kind of gathered and he said yes and they said for how long until the police came i'd be in the front yard i don't want to sit around with the bloody remnants of my wife i don't want to see that i don't know my wife's eyeball no they said well what did you do while you were in there he said quote i poured myself a couple of good shots jesus he's drinking which i suppose you would that's the, when do you need a shot?

It's then at the same time, wouldn't you go, that's not going to look good. If we're, if I'm fucking, I got a highball glass when they come in here and I'm like, officers, can I mix you a fucking martini?

My wife? Oh yeah. That's my wife's eyeball. He kicked that aside. What are you fucking kidding me? So they said between the time you arrived on the scene from work and the time the police arrived at first was there anything around there anything set aside or disturbed in any way did you move anything or clean up any blood or did you fuck with the crime scene at all besides drinking

liquor and he said no not at all and um that was that so yeah at first though the whole thing was that krista was lost in some woods. So that's what people were thinking at first. They were going to have to go look through the fucking woods. Mr. Sadler said, I went over to look at her and she was dead. Jesus Christ, that's rough here. So he said he took the bedspread and covered it and covered Dottie's body up. And then after that, Agnes Thompson appeared at the top of the staircase and said, is she dead yet?

So there was. Holy shit. So she carried Krista downstairs and Agnes wanted to accompany them outside to look at Dottie. And they wouldn't let her. They told her she had to stay inside. So, yeah, that's fucking amazing. So, anyway, there's another doctor here, Dr. Murphy. Or, no, Mr. Murphy's a different guy. He is a doctor.

He did the examination, and he saw signs of where the fork had been stuck exactly and did all of that, said there was massive blood over the right eye and left side of the face, small pool of blood near an ironing board and a streak of blood on the floor that we talked about. And he observed the electrical cord around the waist. Also, the cord was taken from the toaster. And the toaster was found near her feet, near Dottie's feet. So they took the toaster outside, ripped the toaster off, threw it down off the deck, and did this. Wow.

Yeah. So then they also end up finding a large blood-stained hammer in the woods at the rear of the house. That's the sledge? It's a four-pound hammer with an 18-inch handle. It's a big fucking hammer. Sure is. Big old hammer. So they do a house-to-house investigation starting immediately. It's a big fucking hammer. than the Stadlers. There's not a lot of neighbors in this area. The state troopers, so they have a lot of area to cover,

and they found out, they said there wasn't a stranger in sight, any automobiles going up and down the road. So the only signs of life we could find were cows grazing and ponies running around and shit. That was all they could find. They said it was also two days before school got out for summer vacation.

So, you know, nobody was paying any attention to anything here. It was just a lot going on. Summertime in the Northeast is nice. So, um, the evidence here, what they can find,

um, is a large red stain, blood stained hammer, 110 feet to the rear of the house. Uh, the captain of the police force described it as a stone hammer. Sorry. It's a five pounder with a wood handle 18 inches long.

They also found a red earring and a white bloodstained shoelace in the driveway. A shoelace taken out of a shoe? A shoelace from a shoe with bloodstains on it and an earring in the driveway. Which is very strange because Dottie was never in the driveway. She was dragged out the back of the house. So it's an earring in the driveway, which is very strange because Dottie was never in the driveway. She was dragged out the back of the house. So it's an odd thing here. And the hammer is way the fuck out in the woods.

110 feet in the back. Yeah, it's way back there. I guess it's not that far for the porch woods. Yeah, but you can't whip that 100 feet away. Not five pound hammer. You could go to the edge of the woods and throw it and probably get it to 110 feet from the house. I bet. Five pound hammer will go pretty far.

If you underhand that bitch, that thing will fly. That's a tough throw, though. Yeah. You could throw it 50 feet, I bet. Yeah, I guess. Probably, if you had a good whip on it. Or you could just walk into the woods and place it there. That's the other thing you could do.

I think I don't know my own strength, James. I don't know what I'm capable of. you really like just did like a side deal like one of those like people do like a discus type deal i think you could really whip that fucker really get some shoulder into it yeah yeah some body and get some body into that bad boy put your legs into it that's what you need but if you're trying to get rid of a murder weapon probably could you probably could all or like i said you could walk into the woods and just put it there. That too. But then you've got to get all the way around the other side of the house to get rid of a shoestring and an earring.

And an earring. That's what I mean. It's a very odd setup. Who's doing this? It's almost like the house is the central of those. You could go out the back and throw that and out the front to do that. But then the whole, I don't know, it's weird. How do you do both at the same time?

It's odd. It's got to be two people. Or it could be somebody going out there throwing that. And then when they're leaving, dropping the shoelace or the thing. Or with this fucking brilliant crew, the shoelace and the earring could have been stuck to somebody. One of the crime scene people's shoes. And they just dropped it out there and fell off. And they're like, I found a shoelace out here.

They're not real fucking. It's not like they're going over this with aelace out here they're not real fucking it's not like they're going over this with a fine-tooth comb here this seems pretty they're wallowing in the crime scene maybe it fell on somebody's shoulder this yeah this is just from the hip here you know cut her down what hold on so this town freaks out because this is the first murder in this town since 1914 and we're looking at the fucking 60s right now 51 years they haven't had a murder in this town since 1914 and we're looking at the fucking 60s right now 51 years they haven't had a murder in this town and then this happens that's why they have no idea what the fuck to do with it whatsoever because they haven't these people haven't everybody on

this police force has never investigated a murder right if you've worked for this town's police force the state troopers probably have but if they work in this area, probably not a lot of them. Anyway, so at that time in 1914, the county commissioner, Hubert B. Case, was murdered in his store at that point. He was attacked and died the next day, and two suspects were convicted of the crime and hanged a year later. Wow. A little different. Now, his neighbors and friends, not that guy, this guy, back to Arnfin. Everybody's going around going, who could have done this to Dottie? What the fuck?

People are saying, you can imagine the rumors. They're like, well, it must have been Arnfin. And we'll talk about why. Because Arnfin's been stepping out with another lady. So we're thinking Arnfin's got this dream house, and he loves his daughter and all that, and the only thing he seems to want an upgrade on is the lady in his life or what he thinks is an upgrade.

So they're thinking maybe it's Arnfin, or maybe it's a lot of people think it's Agnes too. Yeah, but then they say that the doors were locked when Arnfin got home. So they're like, why would she keep the doors locked if she was afraid of her mother-in-law? One neighbor said, if she was afraid of her, why would she keep herself locked in there with her? Wouldn't you keep the doors unlocked so you can make a quick getaway if you're scared of your mother-in-law? One woman said, if I were afraid of someone who was living in my house, I would keep the doors unlocked so if there was trouble, I could grab my baby and run.

Solid. Yeah, and there you go. So another woman said, I've heard that Dottie was afraid of Agnes, but would a woman as meticulous as Agnes make such a mess? It's a huge mess. Well, she wasn't worried about cleaning if she was murdering someone probably. It also feels like a rage incident. Yeah. You get messy in rages.

That's the other thing. By the way, Agnes is five foot tall, 115 pounds and 64 years old. And yeah, it sounds like a real Wolverine. I mean, she could capable of anything. So they said, would she be able to stay there afterward all afternoon and look at the blood all over the floors? No. able to stay there afterward all afternoon and look at the blood all over the floors no and they also the consensus is one lady says if krista saw her grandmother kill her mother she'd be scared of her wouldn't she she said she wouldn't let her grandmother touch her she'd

probably and she was holding her perfectly calm when they found her they said nobody would want to stay with a person who hurt their mom a minute ago um so they said what what did she see the only thing that krista will say about it the whole entire thing and she's two mind you two and a half she did see something though really because all she kept keeps repeating when they ask her anything she says she killed her she killed her oh my she knows what that means she killed her she killed her yeah that's what she says which is weird for a two-year-old to say right now there's she killed her is awfully suspicious revealing but at the same time a two-year-old fucks up pronouns all the time right two-year-olds are two-year-olds are fucking stupid their brains aren't developed

yet they're morons your dog is smarter than a two-year-old are fucking stupid. Their brains aren't developed yet. They're morons. Your dog is smarter than a two-year-old, literally. That seems right. It's true. A dog is equivalent to about a four-year-old child, like a smart dog, but a four-year-old child. Then their brains really start developing after that. That's why we don't send them to school until they're like five because before that, it's all mush in there. Before that, they're just peeing on walls and stuff. Yeah.

So she killed her. She killed her. So they were like, you know, that was all peeing on walls and stuff. Yeah. So she killed her. She killed her. So they were like, you know, that was all very suspicious and everything like that. They live on Route 179. It's a dark, hilly, curvy country road. There's no traffic. There's no anything like that. One lady said one night she was driving home about midnight and a man ran and ran like cut her off in her car

in his car and was waving for him her to stop and she was trying to pass him and he kept fucking like blocking her way and um so she ended up finally gassing it and getting by him but she said so maybe that was that guy maybe he's like in the area trying to kill women in the area or something so she doesn't remember what kind of car it was no license plate and the description is a man so not good that's not a good one we're looking for a man or a an old mentally challenged woman we're looking for one of those two things those are our what the fuck so either way eventually the crime scene's cordoned off by the state troopers to prevent the everyone else who's been fucking

walking all around the crime scene to stop doing it basically so they cut all that off krista spends the night with her aunt and uncle in new hartford because you know that's a good move agnes is escorted by a policewoman and two state troopers to the Connecticut Valley mental hospital in Middletown. She is going back. She's going back to the hospital tonight. Apparently. I don't know what's going on. Um, they said she's a suspect cause she was in the house at the time.

Um, but she's not really all there. So they're going to take her to the hospital and see if she's capable of talking about this essentially. They're going to take her to the hospital and see if she's capable of talking about this, essentially. So either way, they're really this took forever because of all the distance of the farms and everything like that. Even the the Statlers are across the street, but it's still a good distance to walk. You know what I mean? Now, Agnes has, like I said, she's at this point a patient at the Connecticut Valley Hospital in Middletown. And they ask him, they ask Arnfin, what was her attitude when you talked to her?

What was your mom's attitude about Dottie dying when you told her? And he said, quote, just a glassy stare. And they said, was it one of indifference? And he said, I would say so, sort of, yes. So kind of. Holy Christ, man. Now, Mr. Stadler told investigators that he observed a green car in the driveway at one point in the house. He said it might have been her boyfriend.

Now, I think he's assuming that that's Dottie as a boyfriend. What a wild jump. Yeah, I saw a green car. Now, I don't know if he's trying to protect his friend, Arnfin, or what's going on here. But he said that he initially went looking for the baby in the backyard because they were like, well, didn't Arnfin get you out of the house? And they said, well, yeah, me and my wife went and looked for the baby in the backyard. Where was he? He was in the house.

So they're like, so he cleared you out of the crime scene and then had a loan access to the crime scene after that. I guess so. So that's what they figure out. So everybody looks guilty. No kidding. Everybody. The green car looks guilty. Agnes looks guilty. Arnfin looks guilty. No kidding. Everybody. The green car looks guilty. Agnes looks guilty.

Arnfin looks guilty. I'm starting to wonder about the Stadlers at this point. Everybody's looking guilty. What did Krista know? What did she know and when did she know it? I'm starting to think maybe. It's a bad baby. She could be just a terrible baby.

Yeah. Problem child had to start somewhere, right? It did, yeah. So either way, the coroner, let's get some coroner answers here, some coronial answers, let's find, we'll call it. He comes in here, H. Gibson Guyon, that's his name, H. Gibson Guyon. He's the county coroner. He issues a finding that he thinks, based on, this is what's weird, okay? finding that he thinks based on this is what's weird okay they do a coroner's inquest rather than now a homicide detective well you'll get like the medical examiner to say whether they think

it's a homicide or not that's what they get then homicide detectives work out what they think happened back then you do a coroner's inquest and a coroner would tell you what he thought happened and then the detectives would kind of go off of that go out and try to prove that which seems very there's an extra step in there then they figured out hey we can do this faster if the detectives just do this rather than waiting for him and yeah but not just faster but more accurately because if you've just got a guy that he doesn't see anything that's in the room, he's just there going, this is what happened to this body. So this is probably what happened.

Now I've got to go try to corroborate that. Well, how about the evidence doesn't support that friend. I think they figured out the whole first 48 thing, too. Like, hey, it's pretty important to get this information fast and not just to stand around going, well, I don't know. Shit. Let's pick around some theories. To stand around going, well, I don't know. Shit.

Let's pick around some theories. So he says the coroner says that the evidence and in the light in which I view it is wholly circumstantial. But he also says, I have not made a finding in this case of not guilty by reason of insanity. Although I find Agnes was mentally ill, was a mentally ill person on there and had been mentally ill for a long time prior to that date. But he says that she is the person he holds criminally responsible for this is Agnes. That's the coroner. The coroner says it's the mother-in-law that did it 100 percent. Is it his job to name a suspect or is it his job to tell us what happened? Oh, July 16th, a coroner's warrant calling

i've never heard of a coroner's warrant before why does the coroner have so much fucking power i don't know i don't know this is great the coroner used to be a very powerful guy in in like a rural area too yeah they are But I mean, this is crazy though. He's investigating the crime scene? Based on the body. He's not, yeah, what kind of an expertise? He's not interrogating anyone. He's not doing anything like that.

Making wild ass accusations. So he issued a coroner's warrant calling Agnes Thompson criminally suspect in the murder. The warrant was lodged at the Connecticut Valley Hospital, but the coroner said that the warrant would only hold for 24 hours after an inquest finding is released. So he also said, in a sense, the issue presents a problem in that it's hard to determine the exact cause of death. On the other hand, there could be no doubt that the victim met a violent death at the hands of another person. It will serve no useful purpose to detail the multiple injuries afflicted.

This is what he inflicted. This is in the report. Stab wounds in the back. So I'll list them, though. Stab wounds in the back caused by a two-pronged instrument, which appears to be a roasting fork, blows on the head with a blunt instrument, and strangulation by means of a cord around the neck could singly or in combination have been lethal. I conclude the death was caused by stab wounds in the back, blows to the skull, and strangulation,

but cannot determine whether any one alone was the cause of death. I'm inclined to view the death as a result of combination. The second part of this finding is concerned with whether or not a person or persons were responsible in the victim's death. And he says that's solely circumstantial. But he says, I find that Agnes Thompson, mother-in-law of the deceased, was at the Thompson home throughout the day in question until the body was discovered. She was present at the commencement of the inquest and had notice of the adjournments thereof, but did not attend either of them.

And on July 16th at subsequent hearings, she was represented by Mr. Henry Campbell, a public defender through her counsel, blah, blah, blah, didn't testify on the basis of evidence before me. Other than any statements or declarations of Agnes Thompson, I conclude that motive opportunity, the time element and physical evidence at the scene compel the conclusion that Agnes Thompson was criminally responsible for the death of the deceased. Most compelling evidence taken in connection with motive, opportunity, and time element is the multiple findings of blood on the premises and on the person and belongings of Agnes Thompson. The blood found was in the same group type as of Agnes Thompson.

Its unexplained presence on a number of different objects and in a number of different places furnished ample support for my conclusions. We are concerned also in this matter with the mental capacity of Agnes Thompson. He's not a psychiatrist or a homicide detective, mind you. So this is a Wendy's. That's what it is. You went up and you said, I'll have a number three. No, do large and I'll do that with a Coke.

And he's like, let me give you scientific facts and judgment calls based on something that I'm not an expert at. Yeah. So a psychiatrist now he's making clinical claims about somebody's mental capacity. Listen to how outward this is too. We're concerned also in the matter with the mental capacity of Agnes Thompson. I have not made a finding in this case of not guilty by reason of insanity, although you haven't made the finding. That's good because you're not a psychologist, psychiatrist, a psych anythingist.

You're a fucking coroner. Yes, that person dead dead that's your job what could have been the cause of death that's what we said and he has to be on about how long they've been dead for that's what you're good for we don't need a this guy's collecting evidence to do adducing his fucking opinions and then talking about someone's mental state he's gonna balance the budget of the town after this? He really should also do something about this fucking bumpy roads. Pave that shit, you asshole.

Good Lord. Although I find Agnes Thompson was a mentally ill person on June 15th, 1965, and had been mentally ill for a long time prior to that date, the question of her mental competency in terms of whether or not on June 1565, she had the ability to understand the nature and quality of her acts, knew the difference between right and wrong, and could comprehend the consequences of her acts was not settled clearly before me. You know, because that's not the kind of doctor I am.

Why would it be? That's like going to a fucking psychiatrist taking your shoe off and go can you look at my toe quick i think it's a little it just there's something it's hurting me lately well that's not my fucking job i don't know anything about that he said i gave a copay to my psychologist and then handed him the case file and told him to tell me what the cause of death was here jesus christ said i am inclined to believe that the one date in question, Agnes Thompson was mentally competence was mentally competent against her in this instance, as it seems essential that this inquest should be concluded and that some warrant should be issued as a retainer. So that in the event of her restoration to mental competency, the question of her competency to commit the crime can also be fully resolved in a court of law. So he's saying, I'm putting this warrant out, and it's basically if they release her, then we can arrest her right away and get this all going on.

So very interesting. He said there's reasonable cause to believe Agnes Thompson is criminally responsible. He goes on to say that it is my opinion that Dorothy Thompson knew her killer. There were no defense wounds on the mutilated body which makes sense it is someone she had to be very comfortable with had to be in the house because she was ironing right you don't iron and if there's company over that you're not very comfortable with you don't go i'm gonna go iron for a while now you know what i mean so she was ironing knock on my door and tell me about solar come on in i was just uh iron yeah and then you turn your back to them in iron so they can

blast your skull with a fucking five pound hammer no that's not how that works so you say a battery wall in my garage fascinating he says uh the killer stabbed mrs thompson over the left side of the neck with a table fork which was bent and wasn't usable after many blows. So hard the fucking fork was bent. That's insane. That's a lot of rage. Then the killer plunged the large carving fork into the woman's back, penetrating through both lungs and from there to her shoulders.

Oh, God. She probably fell to the floor, and then she was hit over the head with the sledgehammer and in the face over the left eye. The blow crushed her skull and a large rock crushed her abdomen. Jesus fucking Christ. So another doctor, Dr. Owen Murphy, who's a different medical examiner from the town of Simsbury, he says they ask him what was the condition of Agnes Thompson when you talk to her right after the murder. He said, quote, she was warm and full of joy and happiness. Well, that's not the right.

She's either insane or a murderer. One of the two are very happy about what she did. She said, quote, Dr. Murphy, I am awful glad to see you. OK, she's obviously she obviously was in a grandiose state of mind, stimulated by some action of religious origin between her and her maker. She seemed subconsciously looking for a reward as though she had rendered some service. That's the attitude I felt. What the shit?

I don't know the technical exact terminology for this. I'm not a doctor, obviously, so I don't want to go out of my way. But I think what I'm looking for is fucking, like, right? Yeah, a little fucking cuckoo banana time, right? I don't know if that's dementia, because that sounds dementia-y to me. Yeah, and she did just six months ago get out of a facility. So she may have some shit. This sounds like early onset dementia, like just the way she's acting.

That's how a person with dementia would act more than a crazy person. You know what I mean? More than a mentally ill person, whatever. So anyway, he said they asked him, is Agnes Thompson strong enough to lift the body of the deceased? And his answer was yes. Really? Which she's a small, older lady,

but apparently she could have easily done that, he said. They said, is she strong enough to lift this 19-pound boulder, which was dropped on the victim? And he said, yes, she was. So to drop it on her with enough weight to crush things she'd have to lift it up over her head and drop it can she lift a 20 pound boulder over her head i mean that's not so crazy right a bag of dog food is like 30 pounds and everybody out there ask your grandma if she can lift a 20 pound rock give her a 20 pound weight and see if she can lift

it over her head so either way they make an announcement here um the the police decide to make an announcement this is the announcement this is the press release okay this is from commissioner leo j mulcahy he says quote we want to reassure the residents of berkhamstead or barkhamstead and surrounding towns that the killer is no longer at large. That's it. That's all I said. Didn't say we arrested anybody.

Just no longer at large. We got this. We need more. That's it. They were saying the stores in town were out of door locks. They bought the people freaked out and went in town and bought door locks. They had to wait for the next door lock shipment to come into town there's literally no door locks you had to go to hartford to get a door lock back then so you um yeah so they didn't

elaborate didn't say shit they just said that people were like okay i guess that's good i don't know stop buying slages everything's good yeah so director, John Shea, he's a guy who he sees a lot. And this is a guy who has a constant dead body. He's got to fix people's heads when they blow the back of their skulls off and shit like that. So this guy is an undertaker. Undertakers are like even tone. Nothing surprises them. He said, quote, In all the years I've been in this business, I've never seen anything like it.

I've had hundreds of accident cases, burn victims, even people thrown through windshields in automobile accidents. But this is the first time I've ever cried when I looked at a body. Whoever did this to Dottie must be a maniac. I cried. That's how bad it was. I mean, I had to put her skull back together it was mashed to nothing you start i have no idea i don't know that's why i would never want to do that fucking job so i mean and that's like it's like putting together lawn furniture that uh was opened and

returned somewhere you know what i mean yeah there's screws it doesn't have all of its parts i can't do this it's not even in the box. The box is all mushed out in that one area. It's all supposed to be pushed out. It's square. This is a head missing an eyeball. How do I make that? Fuck, man. Okay.

To look at. Holy shit. So they, they do. There's other theories, too. There's a woman named Patricia Bores, who's a clerical employee at the Carpenters Brick and Clay Company in South Windsor, where Arnfin worked. And she told the cops that he was at his job all day, except for a lunch period of no longer than 30 minutes.

So not enough time to go home and kill his wife. He's been gone. And she was there way too long for him to have killed her, got home at six o'clock, killed her, went across the street and then, you know, had the neighbors come. She was already cold by then. I mean, it was long, long over with. So he cannot he couldn't have physically done it himself. Arnfin impossible. So, yeah, there's that. So, yeah, there's that.

She said that he received several phone calls that day but could not recall if any of them had been from whoever or who they were from or anything like that. Yeah, he had gotten several phone calls at work that day. So that's an interesting thing here. They're talking about Krista. Can they talk to Krista? Can they get anything out of Krista? Can she be a witness at two and a half? Is two and a half?

I don't either. Maybe not a witness in court, but can she give any helpful information? Anything at all? But a two and a half year old is just, they're trying to match whatever you say. They're going to go, yeah. They don't have great narrative ability at two and a half. No. Basically parents. Let me tell're basically parrots. Let me tell you what happened that evening.

Now, it was a typical afternoon. I had eaten my peanut butter and jelly precisely at noon. I went down for my 1.15 nap, and I'll tell you I heard a ruckus. I don't. It's quiet normally here. There's a cow mooing possibly, something of that nature. But no, no, no. This was a foul ruckus. A sinister foul ruckus coming from down below. And I said, what is that? Keep it down.

I'm trying to read. After a lunch pairing of Uncrustables and Welch's. After lunch, pairing of Uncrustables and Welch's. Ah, it was lovely. I said, ah, mother, mother, no, you gave me the raspberry Uncrustables. I'll only have, I need a red with this. This is not the white grape. I can't do that. Please, mother, jeez, it's a fruit punch arrangement today.

Goodness, I have to teach her everything. Really should get a sommelier in here. This Welch's had great legs. It's got, it's oaky right it's got a good flavor so uh either way and after all this investigation they find one person a man who passed the house on his way to work in Hartford on the afternoon shift that day. He drives past the house every day to go to work. He said that he saw a black 1959 Ford parked in front of the Thompson house during the afternoon. Hey, who drives that? That's what he said.

So there's one guy. That's what we got here. So he said that, yeah, he did that that he said it was about 1 30 in the afternoon and i was on uh uh oh no this is that's a oh no then a cop saw one too later on i'm sorry a state trooper said it was about 1 30 in the afternoon i was on routine patrol headed south as i passed the thompson house a black 59 for Ford heading north toward East Heartland was just coming to a stop in front of it. So a cop saw the car pulling up and another guy saw the car parked there.

Okay. So it's interesting. There was a pause and the trooper stopped and he said, um, I had particular reason to look carefully at this car and occupant about two weeks ago, we had a case of indecent exposure at the reservoir beach and the fellow in question had a 1959 black Ford. Yep. Oh my god, and that's why

I happened to notice it. Through the rear view mirror, I saw a man walking around in front of the car. He's about 5'10 or 11, well built, wearing a pink shirt and gray slacks. Yep. So he said he was about 30 years old from what he saw in the rearview mirror. It's hard to tell age.

He said he wore glasses. He said, I don't think I didn't think this was the man involved in the beach incident. So I drove on. I didn't notice the license plate. So he looked at him and went, nah, he looks like an upstanding guy and drove on. That was his investigation.

He said, I didn't think he was. this was the man involved in the beach incident. Maybe the beach incident guy had a different description. Sure, maybe. It might have been a blonde guy or something. Pink shirt doesn't look like a dick flasher to me. He looks pretty upstanding. I got the same frames on my glasses, so never mind. He didn't even write the license plate number down, though.

It was like, just drove on. That's how little it stuck out to him. Yeah. And didn't have a radio on his collar to call it in or any of that shit. So there's also hair. A toxicologist here talks about this. They established there is hair found by police in Agnes' apartment that was similar to hair from dotty but everybody lives in the house so that's kind of hard to hair gets all around here so if you've ever lived with if you lived with two women

you know there's going to be hair all over the fucking house there's hair everywhere so um it's like living with a golden retriever there's going to be hair my daughter's a dick and she wanders around with her fucking uh wet brush and just pulls hair out of it and then opens her hand i'm like you're in my living room what are you doing go to a garbage can jesus christ why did you do that so uh there's that sort of thing here uh uh arn finn's uh sister-in-law arn finn's brother's wife. She said she gave Agnes a permanent perm in her hair the day before, and she said she cut her mother-in-law's hair in the Thompson home. So hair that was found on Dottie's body could have been hair that was cut the day before in the living room.

So that's how that works here. before on the in the living room so that's how that works here um they said did dotty ever express any fear of her mother-in-law uh who had just you know moved in from a mental institution would that give her any fear and she said um she said that uh her friend said that dotty said she made her nervous agnes made dotty nervous but she never said she was afraid of her and um they said did she make you nervous? To the friend. And she said, she did at times, yes, about Agnes. She's unpredictable. She's unpredictable, Agnes.

They said, were you both frightened to death of her? And she said, no, no, not at all. She said, she just made me kind of nervous. They said, well, why'd she make you nervous? And she said, well, quote, well, she was a mentally ill person and I was afraid she might hurt herself or do something to herself. They said, you were afraid. Were you afraid she would hurt somebody else? And they said, no, I never was.

Not at all. Ever. Like that was she's a little old lady is the way they looked at her. So they need to solve this thing. So they bring in the detective who's going to solve it. They say this is the guy. Major Samuel Rowe is this guy. Major. Major.

He comes in. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He comes in, he has one theory of the crime, and he sticks with it from the beginning. It's fucking Agnes, Agnes, and Agnes, period. None of this fucking kid with a 59 Ford,

I don't want to hear any of that bullshit. It's Agnes. Fuck that. He said he was away on vacation when the murder happened, but when he gets there, they put him on the case, and he immediately says, it's Agnes. Absolutely.

He said one of the other cops, a Fusenich. Jesus, everybody's got all sorts of Norwegian names. Fusenich. Cleveland B. Fusenich is his name. Cleveland. F-U-E-S-S-E-N-I-C-H-h yeah that's fucinic fucinic cleveland b fucinic he said that he met samuel rome in harford he's another obvious another cop and he said about samuel rome major rome quote he was convinced agnes thompson did it he said we'll go down to

the hospital and talk to her i'll get get the confession from her. I'm not even going to have a question. I'm going to get the confession. I'm going to get the confession. So Fusinich here, old Cleveland Fusinich, he was present during this interrogation. They go to the Connecticut Valley State Hospital, and he says, quote, she said she saw a man come to the house the day of the murders. This is Fusinich talking. But Rome kept coming around to her. He hammered away at her for two hours.

Finally, she got down on her hands and knees and cried, I didn't do it. Why won't anyone believe me? He said, I couldn't understand why the doctor who was sitting there allowed it to continue. And then he said i asked rome can't we knock this off and he did but he went rome went back a second time without cleveland fusinich here and uh this time he left him behind he brought another uh detective with him this is not legal at all he brought a detective with him to a mentally ill person in an institution. Okay, so she's not her sense of reality is a little off.

Anyway, he brought in another detective to pose as her defense lawyer. Why would you do that? And then also a policewoman to pose as her son's new fiance. a police woman to pose as her son's new fiance. This is your lawyer and your son's new fiance who'd like to help you. That's what happened. That's who he brought in. Two cops.

You can't do that. He doesn't have a firm grasp on reality at the moment. Dude, that's fucked up to do that. That's really fucked up, man. I wouldn't want you to do that to somebody that's got their faculties and they're just in jail being held this is great yeah you can't this is this here's your lawyer here they are oh no no you talk to your lawyer well they will throw a one-way mirror like what are you kidding me no so uh they do that the police woman who who's her future daughter-in-law, apparently, she told Agnes that she couldn't marry. I can't marry Arnfin, your son, unless you confess because he's a suspect.

I need some closure. Unless you confess, then we won't be able to get married because none of this will ever be over. So if you want your son to be happy, you need to confess. married because none of this will ever be over so if you want your son to be happy you need to confess uh so at one point uh you know she said that and then rome told her quote he would get the key and let her out of the hospital that night if she confessed you confess we will walk out of here we'll be at wendy's by fucking half hour from now you'll be eating a big bacon classic don't you worry about it why would he say that um so finally she confesses really she said she did it yeah um so rome gets a warrant to charge her uh but it's not served because it can't be served till she leaves the hospital you can't you're not going to take her into custody while she's in a mental hospital

back then so now they would but back then they don't. She's chaining you to a bed. Yeah. So then November 1965 comes around. This is five months later. They absolutely think Agnes, they got her dead to rights. She's in the fucking, in her mind, they're like, we got her. She's in the fucking loony bin. When she gets out, we'll throw a warrant on her.

We'll toss her old ass in jail, no problem. Square enough. loony bin when they you know when she gets out we'll throw a warrant on her we'll toss her old ass in jail no problem squared up so november 1965 arn finn remarries he does he marries a woman named jean griffin um when asked later on how long did you know jean did you just meet her when your wife died he said i knew her about four years uh-oh he said okay did she work with you yes at the rural gas service where she helped him with some part-time bookkeeping and he said also she did extra work for him and they said whereabouts and he said quote at her home that's where she worked at her home below my waist that's where she does her best work in her home. Her best work. It's phenomenal.

Back there in the master bedroom. They said, well, what did she do bookkeeping-wise? And he said, well, she'd write up journals and things like that. And they said, well, you had no business of your own, did you? And he said, I had a few part-time jobs. So it was just very back and forth. They said, well, were you seeing her? And he said, well, I saw her socially.

And they said, well, what the fuck does that mean what is what to see her socially and he said probably have a drink or two or so or so probably probably have a drink or two or so there's look at that language yeah there's nothing in there that's that as fuck. It's three half things. It's three vagaries. There's not one solid. Probably have a drink or two or so. Don't quote me is basically what that says. So he said, well, how often? And he said, oh, started out maybe once a week.

And they said, well, was it more than once a week? You know, hey, chief. And he said, well, yeah. They said it started out once a week. But, you know, after that, they said it got more frequent. And they said about, did it get more frequent after 1963? And he said, no, stayed about the same. And they said, well, was your wife aware of this social situation?

stayed about the same. And they said, well, was your wife aware of this social situation that for the last three years you've been having drinks every, quote, drinks every night with some chick from work at her house half the time? One or two or so. One or two or so, probably. Yeah. And was your wife aware? And he said, quote, no, she was living with her mother at the time.

And they're like, you were married in 59 and moved in together and he said well she ate and slept there and they said well when did your wife live with her mother and he said right after the baby was born which for help would make sense um they said well for how long and he said for about 11 months that's a long time that's a law I could see 30 days maybe or something if you're 11 months. Might as well fucking live there forever. So while this is going on, okay, he's getting remarried. He's got all this. During the late summer, Arnfin had not picked up his mail for like three months.

Just hadn't picked it up. Just left it in the box. Finally, he goes to the mailbox at the east heartland post office and the post postmaster's like holy shit like this is a you got a ton of mail your box is stuffed i was gonna call you to ask you to come pick it up because there's so much and see how you were doing that's how small of a town the postal the postal guy said i was gonna call you to see how you were doing until you had a lot of mail. I noticed. Everybody knows.

So he's going through all his mail, bills, bills, bills, bills, fucking all this bullshit. Finally, he sees one with the address printed in large, weird letters. Very large letters. It's postmarked from Winstead, Connecticut and dated June 17th, which is two days after the murder. Right. So he opens it up and he reads, this is all in like large block print, okay? Quote,

I liked your wife. She worked with me at the bank. I told her if I couldn't have her, no one would. No one would. She didn't believe me. It took a long time but I succeeded in what I planned. Soon I will kill the baby. No sign of her will remain in my mind.

What the fuck? Holy shit. I stabbed her with a fork. I stomped her face. Then I dragged her through the house with an electrical cord. Then I used a hammer to pound the steak. It's misspelled because there's a lot of misspellings in here. I used a hammer to pound in the stake to hang her.

She fell to the ground. Then I bashed her head several times. Then I bashed her in the head and other places several times with a large rock. I used a neighbor's car, spelled like Jim Neighbors, by the way. N-A-B-R-O-S. That's how neighbors is spelled. I used a neighbor's car, a dark blue 58 Ford hardtop. By the way, N-A-B-R-O-S. That's how neighbors is spelled. I used a neighbor's car, a dark blue 58 Ford hardtop.

I wanted to take her with me away from here, but she wouldn't go. My car was too old and ran too poorly, so I stold, S-T-O-L-D, stold. That's it. So I stold someone's on the way to her house. Pretty smooth, except she wouldn't go with me. I'll kill the baby someday soon. I'll kill the baby too. And my wife.

He's married too. So he's saying he, yeah, he's going to kill his baby, kill this baby still. He's got a real blood loss for this fucking baby. It's a real Italian thing. You know what I mean? It's a real, it's going to come for come for revenge yeah the whole lineage has to go and he's gonna kill his wife so many so yeah so many cute clues here a lot of misspellings drag dispelled with one g and then i gave you the other ones there's all sorts of but then some of these words are spelled five succeeded is spelled correctly you can't spell spell succeeded right now jimmy

c u c c e e d e d that's very good but a lot of people have trouble with the c's and d's that's a if you're not a good speller that's a tough word to spell it's one of those and so that's spelled fine but neighbors isn't even close it's not even n a n a b close. It's not even. N-A, really? N-A-B-R-O-S. It's not even fucking close. That's not even close. There's several words that are very misspelled. Stold ain't even a word. Yeah.

Stold. I stold it. So he said that he read and reread this fucking letter. I'm going to kill the baby, too. Jesus. He thought it's got to be a prank. This is a fucking prank. Someone's fucking with me what

um he said yeah he's like the misspelling he said electric is spelled properly but stabbed because electrical is spelled fine he said but stabbed is spelled with one b instead of two and neighbor is spelled how do you get the al instead of like wouldn't you put it like with le if you're if you're spelled ul electrical you know so yeah um so he said succeeded spelled properly but he stole the car he's like this is this is somebody fucking around as his general this isn't the same person so i don't know they might be selectively stupid but he thinks it's somebody fucking around okay okay yeah i hate that i hate that conclusion major rome here comes in and he says quote this letter is from a fucking crank that's his quote he goes it's bullshit he said

the sick bastard has written everything that was in the news he's not the fucking murderer return this to the cannon barracks and tell them we'll do everything we can to help them find the sender any stupid bastard who would threaten the life of a baby is a fucking psychopath okay but let's call you a stupid bastard for giving if all of that information is in the news you blew it well no no there's there's a couple pieces that they hold back though they put all this out there then there's a couple pieces they hold back for this specific purpose to is that way if you have someone confessing they have to tell you things that haven't been in the press i don't know if they held anything back on purpose then but i know they do that now absolutely they hold

through a fucking cord you shouldn't be releasing that three things and well yeah so there it's all in there though yeah so he also says quote this is the crime of a woman. Oh. Did you see that murder scene and go, oh, a woman must have done this? Why would you say that? Okay. This is our 299th regular length episode of Small Town Murder. Then we've done 30 fucking expresses.

We've done 328 episodes of Small Town Murder. How many times have we had a woman murderer where the scene looked like this they're none zero a bunch you'll see a lot of stabs but there isn't heads bashed in with fucking multiple overkill dragging with a cord hanging over the side fucking putting the nail stay all that shit it It's like a, it's a whole different thing. Eyeballs taken out of the head. Never. Yeah. Well, he says,

Rome says, this is the crime of a woman. So, I don't know. Sexist. New Year's Eve, well, he's saying it like, police wise, this is the crime a woman would commit

as opposed to, you can tell from a scene, usually what the sex of the perpetrator is just based on, you know you know so new year's eve 1965 okay december 31st 1965 late afternoon five kids are playing in a in the woods uh by in their grandmother's property which is at the corner of martin and wetwood roads roads wet wet wet twit weds twit woods wow w-e-d-t wet weds woods roads near route 179 so it's in this area um she called out for the kids this lady no response no kids coming she's like what

the fuck she walks out to see what's going on uh there's an old stone wall and they're looking at something all the kids and they say look it's a piggy bank we found. It's a piggy bank. So this woman wiped the mud off and brought the bank in the house and handed it to her husband and said, it must be the missing bank. I'll call the state police because they've said that in the paper a piggy bank was the only thing stolen. It's got to be it. So they find the piggy bank. The cops come get it.

And they notice some weird shit here, by the way. Around that time, too, a man who lives on Westwood Road just beyond this property where the piggy bank was found said, quote, I have seen a car drive up and down the road several times at night but every time i start walking through the woods to get a closer look it would take off quickly it was a dark car i think it was a 59 chevy maybe they're so good at picking out the years of buck well luckily there wasn't a whole lot of cars back then either like there wasn't 47 car brands back then very few makers very few um so the car was um he said the car was not around here before the murder at least i didn't see it but since the murder everybody senses a little are a little sharper and it looked as though someone in that car was looking for something along the road

so that's so that's what they said now they told major rome about this he and sergeant ragazzi now are going to take a hey i got ragazzi with. We're going to go take care of this. All right? They drive up there to the other police station and they get the piggy bank and he takes one look at it. The piggy bank isn't broken. It's a plastic piggy bank that you would – if you wanted to get everything out of it, you would break it. You'd have to break it. That's so – you would break it.

Instead, it's not broken the hole in it is cut out the slot that the coins go in is cut out with a knife like they cut a thing in a knife so you could pour the change out rather than just breaking it which makes no sense and he said if robbery had been the motive stepping on the plastic bank would have been a quicker way to get the contents rather than using a sharp instrument to enlarge the slot. Sure. Doesn't make any fucking sense. So he handed it back.

And then he says that Ragazzi says, well, how did the bank get from the Thompson house in Barkhamstead to Westwood Road in East Heartland? And, you know, he said, what the fuck? He said, Agnes doesn't drive. She doesn't own a car. Right. So she said they said she certainly couldn't walk from Route 179 to East Heartland. What do you think? And he said, Rome said, quote, oh, she did it all right.

She's a strong woman. It was summertime. The roads were good. She could walk it. But then what did she do with Krista? Yeah. Did she take Krista too? She said, this guy said, the Major's one-track mind was in full gear.

He said, I'm more convinced than ever that Agnes is the murderer out of this. Now more convinced. So you give me evidence that leads me away from her, it makes me more convinced she did it. Even though this evidence, I'm not going to be swayed by things like evidence. Well, evidence like that is clearly to make us all think that it's not her. So we've got to stick with our. This guy's like the old hunch cop. Like, well, I know there's evidence, but I have a hunch.

You know what I mean? Never DNA be damned. My hunch is here. I got a feeling. I got a feeling. So other cops come in. You talked about Fusinich here or Fusinich. He's the commanding officer at the barracks.

He disagreed from the outset about Agnes Thompson. Yeah. Five, five foot tall, 115 pounds, mid 60s. I don't think she did it basically. And he said, well, I do think she did it. And they go back and forth and back and fucking forth here. Then they get a different autopsy. Okay.

The autopsy. The autopsy, this autopsy, says that multiple fractures of the skull are the cause of death. However, the other autopsy said it was probably asphyxiation as the final cause of death. So, yeah, it doesn't matter. Either way, they're disagreeing, but she's definitely dead, so we know that. Now, March 15th, 1966, okay? Nine months later, Major Rome sits down. He's got his morning coffee with him there. He's got a fucking probably a hard roll, I'm thinking, if he's a Northeastern guy, something on a hard roll.

And picks up the newspaper, the Hartford Courant, and sees the headline, quote, Harry Solberg of East Heartland arrested for the murder of Mrs. Dorothy Thompson of East Heartland. Uh-oh. So he's like, huh? You made an arrest without telling the lead investigator? You solved my case? That I don't even think the guy killed it? So he screamed, why wasn't I told about this?

And he said, well, that's it. Grabs Ragazzi, says we're going to fucking Litchfield here. And when they get to Litchfield, they learn that, yes, they have the Solberg guy, Harry, that is Thor's son. At this point, he's an aircraft worker. He is picked up and taken to the barracks. He was driven to the Hartford headquarters for a polygraph test where his parents were there. Then he was allowed to go home with the understanding that he would return the next morning for additional testing. And then he comes back for more.

And after the second polygraph, he gets arrested for the murder. OK, Rome, listen to all this. And he said, quote, he yells at the other troopers, quote, I don't care what you say. That fucking kid didn't do it. OK, now, a month following the murder or after a month following the letters being the letter being mailed to to Arne there, a number of handwriting samples had been eliminated except for a high school registration card filled out by Harry Solberg. Oh, so they have a high school registration card with the handwriting harry solberg uh-oh so they have a high school registration card with the handwriting that's similar to the letter they also have the fact that he drives a 59 ford yes and uh you know that's kind of it pretty much and then he was

seen in the area maybe maybe a polygraph and he failed a couple polygraphs which isn't really great um either way imagine polygraphs aren't good now. Imagine what they were like then. I mean, Jesus Christ. A 1960s polygraph. Yeah, I can't imagine. Hold this car battery. Hold this car. What if I hit you in the side of the head with this blackjack?

Did you do it now? So he had graduated from Gilbert High School just like Dottie did. He graduated the week of the murder, actually, is when he was graduating. Yeah, which is funny because if you were in a decent exposure kind of a guy and you were going to graduate to a different crime, why not do it on graduation? There you go. Who knows? So after the murder, seven months after the murder, he married his high school sweetheart

named Sharon, and he ended up getting a job at Pratt and Whitney, which is a division of United Aircraft and also works part time in the plumbing business with his father there. He drove a 1959 Ford, same type as the one seen in front of the Thompson's home that day. He's an acquaintance of the Thompson's as well. He's done the work, he's done the, uh, you know, work around the house, plumbing,

framing work and all sorts of shit like that. He is also had Dottie help him with homework before as well. So he has come over and sat with Dottie and gotten homework help from her before. Yes, absolutely. Um, and where he lives now, where he moved to is about a half a mile from where the piggy bank was found.

Oh, that's not good. Now, on on Major Rome, his one fucking cop said, quote, he's an uncompromising, hard nosed prick cop just out for attention and a bust. Yeah, that's what they said here. Prick cop just out for attention and a bus and a bust. Yeah. That's what they said here. Prick cop. Prick cop. Just out for attention and a bust. So anyway, they look around. Rome comes to the, he's going to the house. He's looking around.

He wants to see if he can get anything out of this. So he gets there. He stood in the hallway, looks around, went in the bedrooms. He went to Agnes' apartment up there. He looked out the window toward the woods, went back downstairs into the yard and all that kind of shit. He's looking all around. He's fucking all the officers are with him. He's looking around, looking around.

He just stops and says, quote, Agnes is the goddamn killer. She was there. She was there all afternoon. And if anyone came, she would have heard them because that's why he went up in the attic to see what he could hear up in her room to see what he could she could see and hear which is everything um the lieutenant fusinich said quote i disagree with you agnes thompson is a little 64 year old woman who doesn't weigh much more than 115 she's not much over five foot tall and isn't strong enough to lift a 19 pound rock so he ought rager Rome says, horseshit, I want a whole search of the house and woods. Full search!

Which they should have done to begin with, obviously. Now we want to search? Now, yep. He came back with the men at night. They scanned all the clothes in Agnes' closet with fucking ultraviolet lights that would detect bloodstains. They did all that thing. Even after they'd been washed, you can still detect bloodstains

back then. So he said they were looking for, you can still detect bloodstains back then. So he said they were looking for any bit of evidence, including bloodstains, fingerprints, that sort of shit. Maybe another murder weapon, something, you know. Who knows? Some other. Who the hell knows what they're looking for? They couldn't find anything. This is before they found the piggy bank, by the way.

So they were, you know, looking for all this. He brought in a metal detector he wants to make it be hurt so bad he ordered the entire area searched including the adjacent woods they found all they found was shit loads of beer cans from teenagers and shit like that they even dug up where fresh looking spots were found more beer cans um then he looked around and he said quote call in the honey wagon. I want the fucking septic tank pumped out. He is not accepting the honey wagon.

Yeah, that's what they call a septic tank pumper. That's disgusting. They have a lot of septic tanks back east here. There's a company around here. I see their truck all the time. Hopefully, maybe we'll see it driving around when we head to Connecticut after after we're done recording and it says we take crap from everyone that's their slogan it's got a guy smiling on it that might be the only uh profession that i appreciate them being funny and trying because that's disgusting yeah you have to have a sense of

humor if you work in the shit industry you just have to you have to that's crazy so um either way the next day he called arn finn and he said i want you to come with me uh and the lieutenant and the sergeant to the hospital and we're going to talk to your mother again yeah okay so the doctor agreed agnes was well enough to be interviewed um provided she's there's a nurse there with her he also said that whoever was doing the interviewing would have to use a microphone in the next room so they could hear over there. So the three of them, Ardenfin, Fusinich, and Ragazzi, were allowed to stay. Agnes was lucid.

She talked about her husband dying when she was younger. He died years and years ago, decades ago, which might have helped her mental spiral as well. Triggered some depression for sure. Yep. The hard time she had trying to support her two children in the 1940s. Oh, my God. You know, that was hard to do. The doctor brought Agnes a glass of milk and said maybe we'll take a short break.

Now, Major Rome tries to get her to concentrate on the day of the murder, not the raising of her children, right? She's lucid on that. That's great. But what about this? At the mention of Dottie's name, Agnes got up and walked around, started pacing around the room, which is a bad sign, by the way. That's guilt shit.

As far as body language goes, jumping up and beginning to pace is maybe the worst thing that you could possibly fucking do at that point. Don't do a headstand and sing either. You're better off going, da, da, da, da, da. That's less suspicious then. You're perfectly fine. Oh, yeah, that's great. What about that?

Oh, this and that. Dottie? Dottie? Oh, God. So there's that. She starts walking around. Then she says that she just repeated the same thing she said to the officers at the house. I don't know.

I didn't see anything. So he got mad and said, quote, it's a lie. It's a lie. I want to leave. Okay. So does she. So does she. Yeah.

So finally, all this got him nowhere. So he just left. Okay. And said he'd return. So now it's lunchtime. He's like, we'll try back in a little while. It's lunchtime. Agnes is escorted to an adjoining room. The officer stayed with her while a nurse went out for some food. seriousness of the inquest. She acts as if it was happening to somebody else. And there was a 15 minute recess where the doctors talked a little bit. Major Rome said, I don't think she planned to kill Dorothy. I think she got mad at her and it started a fit of anger. Then she saw what she'd done and she thought she better finish the job. Then she had another thought to make it look like a robbery. It's the work of a confused person, someone who couldn't carry an idea around the corner.

That's what he says. That might be true also. That could be true, or it could be a very organized thing, and that's how the person wanted the body to be, because that's what turned them on for whatever fucking reason. Because they're not releasing whether they think there's sexual things involved here also. Really? Because they think that's possible. So March 16th, 1966. Here's Harry a Solberg. He's 20 years old. The landlord's son.

We explained who he was here. He's described as his friend by his friends as quiet, but fun loving. OK, he, like I said, had just gotten married. All this type of thing. He has a baby now as well. He's he's got a baby he's arrested here at 1 45 a.m and uh you know was brought in he's secured without bond for him and all that sort of thing here um now uh there's also still the arrest for agnes is still floating out there there's still an arrest warrant for her

for murder for this that they've never fucking done anything with they said the uh the prosecutor said more than likely the murder warrant warrant on her will be withdrawn well yeah you can't have say it's both of them yeah he's saying this the 20 year old kid and the old lady were working together they don't even know each other they have a cabal going together where yeah he bef he befriended this barely lucid 65-year-old lady, and they concocted a plot to steal $20 in change from her kid and her daughter-in-law. That's insane. So it's a very weird – you can't have that theory. So they talk about all of this. They said that he was one of their many suspects.

We had him as a suspect for much time. So they're like, listen, this isn't new. It's just, you know, what it takes. So he comes into court. He's got curly blonde hair is how they describe him. And he says he's a big guy, about six feet tall, 200 pounds, which is exactly how the cop described the guy getting out of the car. He didn't think it could possibly be the indecent exposure guy. So that's interesting.

A part-time plumbing delivery salesman here said that Harry Solberg on the day of the murder did not help his father unload a plumbing truck as he claimed to the police. So he's saying Harry lied to the police about where he was that day and they talked to him. They bring him in and they're going to try

to get a confession out of him going to try to get a confession out of him they do eventually get a confession out of him really uh this is pre-miranda warnings and also because i think 66 is miranda the mirandic versus arizona cases in 66 so this is pre all of that um they um or they don't there you still have to do it but they don't do it so this is one of those cases that would have been a problem later on. They sat him down for 30 hours and interrogated him straight 30 hours. You only put in 10 more hours a week in work. Yeah.

30. Well, it was 15. Then he went home. Remember, they did 15 polygraphed him, sent him home, brought him back the next morning for another 15. Whoa. Nowadays, anything more than eight is considered a judge is going to throw that out. Yeah. That's going to be considered too long, extenuating circumstances.

Two double shifts. 30 hours. They say he's got low IQ. He also took six years to get through high school which is an issue and um they say also he admitted to light writing the letter to arnfin he said he wrote the letter to divert suspicion from himself basically he said that he warned that he would uh come back and kill the two-year-old he wanted to be like some boogeyman out there and uh you know that's why he mentioned the car too to say like oh that's not me that uh, you know, that's why he mentioned the car too, to say like,

Oh, that's not me. That's this, you know, trying to do one of those. So they're going to try him for murder. He's tried for murder here. Um,

so there's a teacher here. One of the things he says at trial, Solberg is that he went to the Thompson home the day of the murder to get home. When he said I was there the day of the murder, but it was to get homework help from Dottie. Well, they bring a teacher in and the teacher says that there was no, as of June 15th, 1965, he had no assignments to submit in the economics course, he claims. There was no homework.

No, they said everything in the whole class was to be completed by June 11th. So he said he wouldn't even have even accepted a report on a later date. So there'd be no reason for him to go there for that whatsoever. Nothing. So Dottie's father comes in. He says that they ask him if he if he's ever heard him being hurt, his daughter being afraid of Agnes. And he said, no, she never said she was afraid of Agnes. She said, I know they got along iffy sometimes,

but at the time they were getting along, basically. They said, she never discussed the fact with you that Arnfinn stayed out most of the night and maybe came home only two nights a week? And they said, no, she did not. And they said, so as far as you know, your daughter was happily married, is that correct? And he says, no, she did not. And they said, so as far as you know, your daughter was happily married. Is that correct?

And he says, that's right. So she didn't tell her dad about all this shit, basically. So then they said, that's that. So here comes Arnfinn. Okay. Yeah. The entire time Arnfinn is testifying, every other sentence, the judge has to stop and tell him to speak up. There's no microphone system in the

courtroom back then yeah so you have to speak up and project so everybody can hear you he keeps like starting off normal and then trailing off and by the end of it he's kind of talking down like this so that's what he keeps doing he says like a like it's deflation basically of his air so a beaten man the judge keeps having to do it. I mean, it's constant. It's fucking constant. Like to the point where he goes,

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have got to speak up, man. Like you wait till you hear what he finally says. So they said, um, they talked about how do you know the Solbergs? And he said from,

I rented the house from him. We've known the kids, the kids since he was fucking 14, you know, all this type of shit. Um, they said we rented the rear house behind them they left in 1963 and everything like that they said can you please speak up and he said yes sorry about that they said when did you start to discuss marriage with your present wife and he said about three weeks after dotty's death yikes they had been together that I realize that looks bad.

I get that this looks terrible. He's either, this is the thing, this could have gone down either way. If he's having an affair and wanted his wife dead and happened to get lucky that somebody came in and killed her while he had a solid alibi, that's a weird, I guess, stroke of luck. Not a stroke of luck because you wouldn't want the mother of your two and a half year old to be dead probably, but still. But he didn't get accused of it anyway.

They ended up, the judge cuts that line of questioning off. They're not going to bring in like he was having an affair and he's a suspect. The judge won't let him do that. They start questioning the morning of the murder. Arne says that he had toast and coffee in the living room. He shaved. He got dressed. He went to work. And there was tools on the back porch, like a hammer and a nail set and all that kind of thing. He did see the piggy bank. It was either on the hearth or the coffee table. He said he didn't go out and check the tools that morning, but they were all there the night before. go out and check the tools that morning, but they were all there the night before.

They asked him if he's a CPA. He said, I haven't got my certificate yet, but I passed the exam. He said that Agnes, they asked about that. She said she'd been living in the upstairs apartment until recently, had been unemployed as a domestic, had been employed as a domestic. She's been like a nanny and a housekeeper until she went into the mental institution the last time before she came and lived with them. She's been doing that while she clearly doesn't have it all together. That's impressive.

That is impressive, yeah. He said she'd worked for a family in West Hartford and one in Granby. And Arnfin said his brother would take his mother to West Hartford, and then the woman would drive her home. So they said, was she doing housework on June 15th? And he said, no, she was home. So then they ask about the house and the fact that it was Harry over the house. So he knew stuff about the house.

Okay. Then they ask about his habits. You come home to dinner only two nights a week because he said the baby's always watching for him out the window when he comes home. And he said that, yeah, you know, sometimes I'm not there. So I guess she's excited to see me. He talks about having some real drag out fights with his wife concerning him staying out all hours of the night, as one will do. Even in Goodfellas, she knew what he did for a living. He was a gangster going out doing gangster shit.

He's going out to hijack. But she was not tonight you're not going out that even she was like no you can't be out five nights a week even even though i know you're doing gangster shit still no try just being out there going no i'm doing accounting work till three in the morning you don't understand these numbers it's amazing These numbers are brutal. So, um, they ask him a bunch more questions. Again, he starts to mumble.

He says, quote, I don't really know what was the matter with her. It's been described about five different ways to me. And I don't think they know themselves talking about Agnes. They said, what was, it was Agnes diagnosed with the judge is starting to get fed up now.

And he says, can you speak up, please? This is an important trial. The jury can't hear you. I don't know how the, cause he's having the court reporter read stuff back and he goes, I don't know how the court reporters hearing you.

Cause I can't hear you. So if I can't hear you, the jury can't hear you. Cause I'm closer than they are. So anyway, he says that, um, this is amazing.

He eventually dismisses the jury from the room so he can have a chat with our infant about his low speech, which I've never seen before in a court of law. He says, I had to do this out of the presence of the jury. You know, I don't want them to get the wrong impression while I'm, you know,

reprimanding a witness. Yeah. He says, you know, to continue to reprimand you, but you can speak more clearly than you are. You're probably emotionally upset. I realized that,

but you keep your hand up beside your face and you're mumbling. You have a normal voice and I don't like to keep creating a scene out of it. So I've refrained. Ordinarily, I would have spoken up 10 times as frequently. This is the judge talking. I can hear practically nothing of what you say. I don't see how the court reporter can get it. And I'm sure the jury can't get it.

And I'm sure both lawyers are having difficulty. there anything wrong with your speech sir his answer aren't finn it's the way i talk i've got a torn larynx yeah i got a torn larynx that's a larynx that's what it is he then says the judge goes but you drop voice. It isn't so much the volume. It's the fact that you're mumbling. That's wild. He then says, you start to answer the question. He's,

this is like a fucking father yelling at his kid. You start to answer the question and you say two or three words and you drop your voice. Now I know it's embarrassing to you. It's embarrassing to me and I don't want to hold you in contempt of court for failing to answer questions. He says, but it's gotten to the point where it's becoming a very acute situation. This is a murder trial. A man's life is at stake. You are a witness. You were called by the state and you have to simply, and you have simply got to do something about it. You've got to keep your

voice up and speak up and answer questions. The reason I think that you can control it is that it's not so much the volume, it's the fact that you mumble. Now, is there anything that you, any explanation that you want to make to me about this, aside from the fact that I assume you're upset? That's a fucking riot

act he just read him. That is wow. That's a lot. Arne Finn's response to that that i've been talking this way my whole life i don't know no sir today you're gonna talk different that's all i'm saying to you oh the judge says something even better i don't see how you can hold down a job if that's the way you talk all the time he's just now assaulting his character he says i want you during this recess i want you to sort of pull yourself together and i want you to get out here determined to speak slowly and distinctly now i know you can do that better than

you're doing if either of you to the lawyers have any suggestions i am perfectly willing to listen to them he said who can get this fucking guy to speak so I can hear him? That's all I'm asking for. He then said, I'm sorry for anybody who's in the position Mr. Thompson is in, but we have got to get a record of the trial and it's impossible with this guy. So that's amazing. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's amazing.

So they talked about the during this trial. They talked about the Solberg case, the Solberg trial. They talked to him about Solberg's lawyer talks to him basically about, you know, you came home. They go through all that shit again. Then they talk. They try to get in that. They said basically they talked to the police about his confession because they get his they get Solberg's confession in there. And they said he wrote the letter because he was worried about his car and thought the letter would throw police off.

OK, that's what it was, because that's why he tried to write that state's attorney arguing with a homicide detective who is it's fucking crazy. So they have homicide detective. He's fucking wrong. He is the state's chief detective. And there are and they're arguing at the state's attorney, state's chief detective arguing over all this shit. At one point, the prosecutor challenges Rome's veracity, basically. He says,

and it is well-known, Major, that you believe in working for the state that you have a right to lie. Oh, shit. He said that on the stand. And Rome said, will you please repeat the question?

You know what I said. Which means, am I going to have to take you outside when this is over and beat the shit out of you for that? Did you just call me a fucking liar? He said, could you repeat the question? And the defense attorney then objected, and the judge sustained it, and that was the end of that question.

So closing arguments come, and here is the state here. He has all this shit. He rests his case. The final argument, basically, he says it is. He said, we're not even asking for the electric chair. The prosecutor says, look, we're not asking for that. He said, I'm not pressing for first degree murder conviction. We'll take second and a fucking sentence in prison.

That's fine. Don't need to put this guy in the chair. He said he admitted that he this is the prosecutor that he had quote not produced the most wonderful evidence in the world i know i had a weak case but i think you should put this guy in prison forever that's not a good closer no that's a terrible closer your closer is let me sum up how incredibly rock solid fucking watertight my case is he goes i know it's a little shitty but you know i'm about to cast some serious shadows of doubt over this shit real quick and his whole thing is what i'm not asking for the electric chair so you should be cool with that which is super fucking weird i'm not telling you

to kill him i'm just saying yeah convict him because i'm terrible at this he said i there can't be you know he said i don't really have any evidence of premeditation other than the fact that he went there for no reason and killed her. So he had no reason to be there. That's plenty of premeditation. If he had a reason to be there, then you could say there's no premeditation. He was hanging out, something happened, and he killed her. But if he went there, and the only specific reason he could have to go there is to kill her, that is premeditation.

Were all the tools, did he bring any of those? No, no, no. Those were all in the house? Those were all on the back porch. to kill her that is premeditation but there's all the tools did he bring any of those no no that was all the shit in the house those were all on the back porch it was all the shit there was all to build the back porch the sun deck there so uh he said the killing of dotty appeared to be a spur of the moment crime he said on the other hand the state did produce a letter written by sulberg in which he said the slaying was planned. He said, whether or not this is sufficient evidence upon which to base a first-degree murder conviction is up to you. So I'm not going to push it, is what he said.

Now, the defense attorney said his thing's the total opposite. He said he's fucking innocent as shit. He said the murder, not only was it not committed by Solberg, it was committed by the victim's own mother-in-law in her own home. There you go. He said, quote, I have 30 reasons here why Mrs. Agnes Thompson is guilty. He said, I feel badly trying to prove someone else did this, but I have no choice. He said, a person who could write a letter to a family under these circumstances is a person who could have committed this vicious crime. That's what the state's attorney said he admitted to the letter matched his handwriting so it's got to be him uh they said

that uh he told the jury that he thought he he said yes i know thompson was an early suspect old agnes there but it was pretty obvious she wasn't the killer when the piggy bank was taken and found a long way away from her house where you need a car. Although Rome said the roads were good, she could have walked it. She could have walked it. Jesus Christ. So it goes on. Now, he also said that the interrogation, the confession, he said that it was difficult because Solberg said that he couldn't remember

what happened in the Thompson home. He knows he went there, but he had a memory gap. So he doesn't remember a memory gap there. So they said, you know, who knows what he did. He says then the state's attorney said, I claim he did it and admitted it. The defense says the mere fact that I didn't. Oh, no, this is the prosecutor. The mere fact that I didn't produce these things doesn't mean I concealed them.

The defense's thing is they tried to hide from you evidence. A husband had affairs going on for years and then married the woman right afterwards. And then, you know, this fucking, the mother-in-law, they hid all this from you. She had to have heard it. She confessed to it. So that's what they're doing, basically, just to draw some. Because, I mean, mean reasonable doubts reasonable doubt um anyway they said if anything's has been established in this case it has been to eliminate agnes thompson as a suspect that's the prosecutor

um now the prosecutor said sex was probably the motivation in the murder he said that solberg probably came over probably tried to get with her. She probably wasn't interested, and he fucking killed her, basically. They said that she had no defense wounds, but he was known as a friend to them, Harry Solberg, and she would have opened the door for him. And, you know, she had no idea. She had her back turned to him.

Yeah, but I mean, still, if he was doing, he could have said, oh, I'm going to do something on the back porch. He could have said, Arne asked me to put in some nails on that sun deck and i'm gonna go do that real quick and she would have went sure i'm gonna finish ironing he could have went out on the back grabbed a hammer came in fucking bashed her head in with it who knows carving fork and then decided the hammer we have no idea here um the the prosecutor said little did she realize she was admitting a fiend instead of a friend. There you go. So he also reminded the jury that Solberg said he opened the piggy bank with a knife or scissors to get at $16 and change inside.

This is something that wouldn't have been known to anybody but him. 16 bucks. 16 bucks. But the way the piggy bank was opened was one of those things that was not told. You know what I mean? Now, one of the kids could have told somebody and then they could have spread it around rumor wise but it wasn't in the paper anyway um so then he showed the jurors the hole in the bank just like solberg said he made it he said harry solberg is the responsible party here and he and he alone committed this horrible

horrible crime so uh blood and fingernail scrapings were also taken from agnes uh there and they said that uh there they couldn't find anything physically but they said her motive was she hated her daughter-in-law the defense attorney said tragic is the word i would use here tragic he said because this harry sulberg that i'm representing he said is quote one of the purest and most innocent boys who's ever lived weird thing to say that is a it's a little much right i don't believe that no matter what you say he had he didn't do this he's not one of the most purest stop one of the most pure and innocent boys i've ever met who's ever lived not even i've ever met who's ever lived he said he just happened to walk into the Thompson house that day and got into trouble.

He said, you know, one of three different statements he gave to the police. He had different statements because he didn't do it. That's why he gave different statements. He asked the jurors to remember a physician testified that it must have taken 10 minutes to stab, hammer, and strangle Dottie to death. Why would this boy hang around messing with the body all over the place? Anyone with sense would do their job and get out of there. That murder was a woman's work.

You know, because they don't have any sense. Women, these dumb bitches. He said the same thing that Rome said except in a completely different context. That is un-fucking-real. Anyone with sense would do that. A woman did this. Rome said, except in a completely different context. That is unfucking real. Anyone with sense would do that. A woman did this.

A senseless, dumb woman. Incapable. Who doesn't know how to murder people correctly. You know what, guys? That's one more thing we're better at. Murder. So the defense lawyer did all of that. He also said that state police major Samuel Rome was the state's greatest investigator, and he believed Agnes was the killer. So why are we even in court, basically?

He said that, I'm sorry I had to put the case on somebody else, on Agnes, but he said I had to bring out all the facts. Why do I have to do that? Because it's my job, and I think that the prosecution has given you a horrible injustice. It's my job. And I think that the prosecution has given you a horrible injustice. He then said, you're basing this on a confession that was at 30 hours of police pressure on a boy with a low IQ who took six years to graduate from four years of high school. He said, he said, there's not a word of corroboration in this so-called confession. In fact, it's a disorganized mess. You know, like someone with a low IQ and bad organizational skills who would leave a crime scene a mess like that.

That's you just described him as disorganized. You just described the crime scene and your boy in the same words. This is one of those where a profiler would go, well, it's a it's a mess. It's all over the place. It's clearly not planned like this. It's poorly done. It's fucking. Yeah.

They were the first timer years to graduate. It's poorly done. It's fucking. Yeah. First timer. Six years to graduate. First timer. Probably, too. Who might have worked his way up from indecent exposure, which is right. It tends to do that. He told the jury to use common sense in deciding this case. He said, you know, he's been in behind bars for seven months awaiting trial.

Quote, let this boy go back with his wife and family. So the jury deliberates for about an hour when the judge orders sheriffs to take them to a nearby restaurant. They should be hungry. I'm hungry. Don't bring them in food. Take them out to eat. So they go out in public and deliberate while eating dinner. About four and a half hours of deliberation here that night.

By the end of the night, they say, well, we can't reach a verdict tonight. It's the end of the night. So they go, okay. Eight women and four men on the juror. They're sent home at about 930. And they come back 10 a.m. the next day. And they're doing all this shit. They're they're they're liberating.

They're refreshed. They're full of food. Judge McDonald gave the jurors two alternates. He said they could they could stay on if they felt there was a possibility of reaching an agreement within a half hour or so. Or if they preferred, he said they could be resumed later on. They came back in the morning and the next day they come back. They deliberate a little bit more and then they come out and say, we can't reach a verdict. Hung jury mistrial.

Wow. Hung jury. So at this point, the judge was when they were leaving afterwards, the judge was talking to solberg's counsel and said quote maybe you should think about letting him plead guilty to manslaughter when they refile the charges and the fucking lawyer said i wouldn't let him plead guilty to a breach of the peace right now oh with their fucked up thing yeah i feel like i've got this one in the bag yeah november 4th 1966 agnes dies in the hospital oh my god she dies in connecticut valley state hospital that's why i think maybe it's on early onset dementia yeah

she didn't have any diseases and she died which dementia can kill you so sure makes you forget how to fucking yeah new trial comes out here new trial they move it into bridgeport because there's tons of publicity this trial though they're trying they're having a big deal about whether or not to throw out the confession tapes because it was such a long confession and now miranda's being you know tried in supreme court and all this type of shit they said that uh the the tapes are the best evidence in this case he said it's a matter of great urgency that the tapes be taken from officers because they said they left them in a hotel room and it was like the lock was tampered with and people were trying to steal the tapes. Either way, he says, letting them hold on to the tapes is like putting the fox to guard the chicken coop.

So they're trying him for first degree murder. degree murder trials about halfway through when out of nowhere um on january 25th of i believe 67 or eight i don't even know might have been to eight they decide the the state pulls back the first degree murder they null they null the first degree murder indictment and substitute a charge of malicious threatening what under the blackmail statute for the letter he wrote. They say halfway through the trial, they go, we're fucked, he's not going to be guilty. We can't get him. Because they threw out the confession.

They wouldn't let the confession in. Without the confession, they have a guy who said they saw a car sort of like his near the house that day. That's all they have. They have a bunch of coincidence shit, but that's not enough to convict somebody. So they end up doing that. They end up saying it's the state's blackmail statute malicious threatening for the letter the charge is based on that the state's murder case collapsed when the obviously

the the uh the judge ruled the the tapes inadmissible under the miranda decision that just happened dear god so he said uh those exhibits that were uh they only meet three of Dear God. He's such an asshole. Absolutely. So the clerk of the court asked Solberg how he pleaded to the substituted charge, and he said, quote, guilty. Yeah. He already said he did that. I wrote some letters. So sentencing comes around, and we're pretty sure he killed this lady at this point. Yeah. You, sir, may fuck off, Jesus Christ, one year and one day to 10 years in state prison.

Okay. Because one year would be state time rather than being in jail. So one year and a day to 10 years. So he could be released in. Oh, by the way, in October of 1967, he's paroled. Unbelievable. They let him out with time served and exceptional good behavior that was that and he had a baby girl uh arn finn who obviously remarried he moved to massachusetts after that

now yeah i gotta get the fuck out of here rome major rome here um they were there's some stuff about him the the uh district attorney in the first case said that he didn't want to talk bad about Rome. He said he called him a good and dedicated cop, but he said his actions in the trials of Solberg were, quote, a terrible thing. He said one day he brought his whole crew and they filled up the courtroom. I was not impressed with his motives. I don't really want to discuss it. I don't really want to discuss it. So Rome said of the prosecutor, quote, he called me a liar. I never forget that. He's a first, second and third class jerk. He might not be a liar. You might believe wholeheartedly that you're wrong.

That's the thing. Yeah, he might not be a liar. You might just disagree here. He might just be a dummy that didn't follow the truth. Jesus Christ. Fusinich, who thinks that solberg did it that's his guy the other detective he said when asked later on because he became a police commissioner a few years later and they asked him if he thought that solberg should be tried again on murder charges and he said that he oh my god thought quote i think the young man suffered enough oh my god if he butchered a woman like

that you can't suffer enough he did six months in jail what are you talking about her eyeball came out you fucking idiot what the fuck i think the young man suffered enough holy shit so um the commissioner during the thompson case said he remained neutral uh but he did nothing to prevent rome from testifying which is what was annoyed there rome said i but he did nothing to prevent Rome from testifying, which is what was annoyed there. Rome said, I think he wanted me to hang myself, wanted to give him enough rope to hang himself. Rome's last murder case that he ever tried or he ever investigated was the slaying of a University of Connecticut co-ed in 1969. Rome was forced by the courts to release a suspect he believed was the murderer that he was sure of.

The case was then solved five years after he retired when another man confessed to the crime and blood work put him there. He quit the department in 1970 after learning that Fusinich would become the new commissioner. He became the security chief at Sanita's for five years. Is that the chips? The tortilla chips? I think it is. Security guard? I think so.

Guard the chip. Guard the corn. And he was a private detective after that. He said he's proud of his police career. He said the furor aroused by his methods over years, has done little to diminish his self-confidence. He said, quote, when I'm right, I'm right. Yeah, but when you're wrong, you're super fucking wrong. You're really wrong.

That's the problem. March 1981, Arnfin dies. Oh, no. He died in March 1981. Harry Solberg, I believe, is still alive. Is that right? He's in Minnesota, from what I understand. I won't say the town.

He's kept out of trouble. I see in 2015, he filed bankruptcy, Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And in 2003, he was arrested for operating an ATV on the roadway. In his fucking what? In his 70s? He's probably 60 years old at that point my god so yeah he was born in 45 so he was only 50 57 when that happened so that's fine on the road so that's him otherwise he appears to still be alive and in minnesota

and uh and very lucky also i might say a very very lucky man. Because if he did it, he's very lucky that he got away with it. And if he didn't do it, holy shit, is he so fucking lucky that they didn't just fucking put him in the electric chair like they used to do. He's also very lucky that a terrible rapist did some bad shit and they and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor. Absolutely. So, yeah, they that's how that works. And no one ever went to jail for murder. Oh, my God. Like we said, about, what, eight months was served in total for the horrible, awful slaying of this person.

I hope Krista grew up. I didn't look Krista up because I don't leave her alone. I just hope Krista grew up to be, I hope she grew up to, I don't know, be fine and understand that her dad died when she was under 22 and she's 18. Why did grandma ask if she's dead yet? What the fuck was that? That's what I mean. I think my, here's what I think happened. Grandma's got dementia.

Grandma heard noises. Grandma looked out, saw Dorothy getting beat to death and went back in her room like that's none of my business. And then when someone else came later, she came out like, is is she dead yet because she saw her get in the front end of it right but then again how would she know that the person was trying to kill her and not just in a fight with her that's it's really why'd krista say she killed her that's the other thing there's so much to this that makes you go fuck there's not enough but you just wish there was some way to solve this goddamn thing but it's been did he put women's clothes on to cover his clothes when he was beating the shit out of her i i don't know i doubt it i mean that would be an awful lot just put on a sundress just throw

on a house coat maybe who the fuck knows maybe he put a wig on maybe he was playing big bad wolf i have no idea unbelievable what he's doing but yeah this is insane and it's a crazy case and we hope you enjoyed it holy shit a halloween mystery yeah me too this is a nightmare house of a halloween mystery so if you enjoyed it tell the world about it give us your theories as well but do that on social media leave a review though that helps a lot tell everyone you liked it on whatever app you're listening on five stars would be wonderful head over to well, well, also social media, at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook,

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So we'd love to hear some different ideas on this case. I hate a particular person in the case. So it's hard to like, you know what I mean? It's hard to see either side fairly. It's difficult. I'm very biased at this point. I'm very mad at that man. You fucking idiot.

So either way, do that. Hang out with us. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com today. Get your tickets to virtual live show which is now probably unless you're listening the minute this comes out it's now it's thursday october the 27th and will be available for seven days after that you can purchase it at any time you can you know watch it thursday then watch it every day till for the next week do whatever you want to do or you can buy it later get it hang out with us it's going to be so much fun. Virtual live show, just like a live show,

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imagine he comes out as drafted number one, he's ready to take his throne atop basketball, and instead, the day he's drafted, he drops dead from a cocaine overdose heart attack. How crazy would that be? It was crazy because it happened to Len Bias in 1986. And we'll tell you all about it. It's exactly what it was. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about the differences between real reality and the Netflix special for Jeffrey Dahmer. We are going to talk about what characters didn't exist, what characters weren't like that,

what characters, who they, what victims did they go, huh, one's deaf, one's a model. Let's just make a deaf model. That's easier.

Why'd they do it? Why? We'll talk about all that stuff and kind of get mad at Netflix a little bit for it. Everything and more, patreon.com slash crime and sports. And of course, you will get a shout out here

when will you be getting that shout out right god damn now hit me with them like a five pound hammer jimmy this week's executive producers are roy coontz it could be con i don't know what are you gonna say gary friedman uh thank you so much for... Roy. Roy. Roy. Roy. Cunts. Gary Friedman has been giving us money for years now. And Gary... Gary's a good dude. I got to say thank you.

Appreciate you, man. Katie, and there's no fucking way I'm saying this right, Sicaniano. What? I'm sure you're on the money, Jimmy. There's a G in there and Sici. Sicaniano. You're on the money, dude. Robin, a G in there and Sichi. Sichi Nyanyo. You're on the money, dude. Robin, Robin, maybe, I believe.

Andrea Clark, Goulam Shamulziyai. I don't know if that's real. Nate at the Gold Standard Maintenance and also Sharon Lee Jones. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. It's really more than appreciated. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Other producers this week are do. It's really more than appreciated. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

Other producers this week are Yeti Shetty and JB in Canada, Zoe Bednacek. I see you, Zoe. Keep going. You're doing great. Wee Willie Keeler and his wife Mildew, Mark Ratner and Damone, Peyton Meadows.

Peyton. Peyton's been around for years also. Yeah, thank you so much. And Brendan Ables. Thank you guys. Hey, Brendan. We love Brendan Ables. Carla Horner. Listen to episode 61. Do you remember that one, James? so much. And Brendan Ables. Thank you guys. Hey, Brendan. We love Brendan Ables. Carla Horner listened to episode 61.

Do you remember that one, James? Whoops-a-daisy. Kurt Olsen, and also thank you, officer. Unnecessary shower scene in the Allentown video. Tia Churchill. Ben's ass is in. Jimmy's Tijuana stripper. The guy from MASH who looks like Killer Khan.

I don't know who that is. Which one looks like him? I think they're making a joke that a lot of people do because they're in Korea. Got it. Killer Khan was an Asian wrestler. I will move along. Cheyenne Iman. Andrea Fellow.

Stacey Heban. Janice Hill. George Jefferson's first dollar earned from dry cleaning. Fuck yeah. Jen Parato. He's made a lot of money. Jen Parato. Jen Parato. He's made a lot of money. Jen Parato. Megan Stanford.

Caitlin Peterson. Pamela Catherine. Ethan Banks. Robin Vergari. Vergari. That's not right. Vergari is probably right. Jamie Steeves.

Dylan Barber. It might be Jaime also. Christy Brewer. Aggie Music. Eric C. Christina Lutz. Samantha with no last name. Robert Johnson. Haley, I think. Piran Brewer, Aggie Music, Eric C., Christina Lutz, Samantha with no last name, Robert Johnson, Haley, I think, Piran, oh boy, Piran Dozie. Hang with it, Jimmy.

You got this. Kyle Irie, Sophia Petrillo, Christy Waters, Zach DeBlonsack, Ryan Wilson, Victoria Hohenwarder.warder warder warder like people say it in uh where what is it pencil order is that philly no it's pittsburgh right is it kind of more it's a it's pennsylvania who knows uh lebanon james uh amanda would know last name crystal viramontes. Arabia. Arabia Breakfield Dinger. Alexis Freiberg. Allie with no last name. Amy Bob. Anthony Hewitt. Lindsay Hobbs. Patricia Lynn Harris. Lynn

Harris. Lynners. Lex Mullet. Stormy Braga. Fuck. Sam Hamilton. Amy Pierce. Nels Shelton. Lindsay Buck. Dylan Dutch. Kara. Oh boy. Nerim, Bethany Hagen, Bridget Brick, Claire with no last name, Sherry Humphrey, Tonya Barron, Searinks with no last name, Brock Norris, Rebecca Swift, Sweetie, no last name, Layla Baca, Dabby Abby, Megan

Alvarado, Stacey Lessig, Chris Cresseth with no last name. Stefan. Nope, that's Christopher. Okay. Is it Chosard? Patrick Cadian, James Cornelson, Andrea Morrison, Kimberly George, Dave Schaefer, Chrissy Whiff. That can't be right. That's a fucking mistake. All right.

Aaron Lowry. Luke with no last name. Brett Bias. Jesse Sandlin. Kimberly Barnes. Lucy Craft. Michael with no last name, Luke Tyrell, Jessica Ivory, Johnny O'Hara, Dan Morris, Ann Quackenbush, Dana Penny, Brittany Proctor, Michelle Conliff, Melanie, nope, that's Molly, Landek, Stephanie Tell, Melissa with no last name, Amy Johnson, Geggy with no last name. Emily Leone. Alex Schultz. Melissa Alpert. Madison Holly.

Caitlin Walker. Julia Condon. Condon, maybe. Brandon McPherson. Chase Stanley. Mikel with no last name. Sammy Woods. Emily Blackwell.

Christina Miranda. Those are two different people. Lucas Prasha. Ben Du Simpson. Kimberly Cooper. Savannah Viet... Oh, Veltman. That's close to Vietnam.

Sean David. That is my Vietnam. I was laughing at that. Elizabeth Schmidt, Chandler Cofode, Madeline Crumbus, Laura Zelnio, Charles Gies, Shlomo Dean, Zane Bohe, Patrice Dautriev, Dalton Luna, Rebecca Kaufman, Daniel Morgan, Menzi Chase, Katrina Perez, Jen O'Regan, Patricia Mozina, Chantel Forster, Luke Messmer, Harry Patel, Steve Fust, Denise with no last name, Connie Bennett, John Phipps, Sean Neuenberger, Bauer, Nugabowger, Max Murray, Katie Cakes, Desiree Benson, Danny Bellinger, Courtney Legassi, Corey with no last name, Sandra Groves, Sharnell Coggins, Brittany Folo, Elizabeth Petrella, Jacob Curtis,

Cora Rodelidge, Kayla Gowdy, Lacey Soyster, Crystal Griffin, Chris VanViver, Gary Plummer, Kevin Whitney, Molly Russell's wart. Yuck. Molly Russell's wart. Yeah, who's that? You know who it is. I don't know who it is. You know Uncle Buck fans.

Oh, that's where it's from. Danielle Willey, Cynthia Romero, Nikki Lee, Sharon Ross, Sandra Rowland-Backward. What? Daniel Jones, Issa Vega, April Makely, Chance Shreckenghost, Tiffany Capozzi, Travis Run, Jennifer Collins, Keegan Kittle, Betty Williams, Sean Snarr, Samantha Volner, St. Dog Mom, Connie Moeller, Monique Carmen, Matthew Smith, Cheryl Holmes, Edward. Matthew Smith. You said that like it was, I expected this long Italian last name. You're like, Smith.

Eduardo Juan Morales, Jay Mount, Whitney Van Wick, Elle Goodman, Shane Thomas, Ross Gowlick, Tracy Reiser, Raylan Crowley, Cara with no last name, Matt Spicer, William Doster, Chris with no last name, Braids Grenades, Nathaniel, God damn it, Wilder, Clint Baker, Bill Hinckley, Rosemary Spargour, Ted Dejerapont, Rachel Esposito Kelly, I mean Amy Lee, probably not that one. Brian Weidemann. Weidemann. Weidemann. Hey.

Jeanette LeBlanc. Jaden Clare. Heather Murphy. Ryder Holder. Nerman. No last name. Jack Bolablu. Bobby Lou.

Morgan Bliger. Are you just making up things? Are you making up sounds now? I think so. Anna Karina Castillo. Charles Theis. Betty Beth. Whitaker. Seta. Santum Santa Yana, Sonny Carter, Michael Thiem, Andrea Darnell, Seda with no last name, Anthony Francis, Eden, Holy, Allison, Patrick, Carly, Kay, Bittner. That's one person.

Katie Burns, Rich Trubb, Robert Miller, Joan John-Hart. That can't be right. Haley Casabon, one, two. That's a person. Michelle Sprayberry, Malti Stange, Courtney Howlett, Gina Winterstein, Pamela Lucci, Michelle Wells, Derek Adams, Olivia Tunji, or Tongue, Allison Lindsay, Alex Cameron, Gabby Machow, Ashley McGonigal, Leonidas' mom, Nicholas Carter, probably not that one, Christineine heck alessandra pildner von steinberg

andy scorefield craig uh craig hunt joshua no last name logan peterka paterka and melissa elrod and all of our patrons you guys are amazing thank you thank you so much everybody you wonderful wonderful people we really really appreciate it cannot thank you enough if you want to follow us on social media very easy to do that just google search small town murder podcast or the only ones or head over to shut up and give me murder.com and you could find the links to everything

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