Small Town Murder - #335 - The Great Kidnapping Caper - Aberdeen, South Dakota

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

This week, in Aberdeen, South Dakota, a happy go lucky world is turned upside down, when a local mother gets a phone call, telling her that her 19 year old son has been kidnapped, and only a large ransom can save him. When the the person collecting the ransom is caught, he has several tales, that no one believes. Was the kidnapped man in on the scheme? Is he alive, and hiding? Or, has he been horribly murdered, brutalized, and left for dead on some distant farm??? What we do know is that this whole thing turns into a mystery of epic proportions, but the final resolution explains it all!!Along the way, we find out that not just Kansas loves The Wizard of Oz, that people with money don't have to extort people, and that you should never plot to kill the governor's family!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Aberdeen, South Dakota, a phone call demanding ransom and several odd occurrences send detectives down the wrong path before they're finally surprised by a dark and grisly finding.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We have a crazy, wild, twisty, just insane show for you this week. Great.

Before we get to that, we also have something very exciting. We have our tour dates for 2023. We're going to announce them at the top of the show. We'll probably run them down at the bottom of the show, too. But they are coming out, what is it the week after thanksgiving is the very soon the live day so they're going live you can buy them so get it ready holiday gifts and everything else uh you get those over at shut up and give me murder.com very quickly if you want let's go through the dates right now february the 10th we're in cleveland at the agora february the 11th

st louis at the pageant back in st louis at a much, at the Pageant, back in St. Louis, at a much nicer venue this time. March 23rd and 24th, two nights we're going to be in Seattle at the Neptune, both nights. Next night, March 25th, we're in Portland, Oregon, at Revolution Hall. We have two shows that night as well, so a 7 p.m. and I think a 10 p.m. Friday, May 5th, we're in Detroit, back in Detroit at the Masonic there. Nice venue. Again, May 6th, we're in Pittsburgh, back at the beautiful Carnegie Music Hall. That place is lovely. Oh, in Munn Hall, PA. We love it in Munn Hall there. July 15th, summer in San Diego. Why not? Let's do it. July 15th, that'll be a nice reprieve for Jimmy from Phoenix there. We're at

the Observatory again. That's going to be great. July 28th, we're in Salt Lake City again. Mormontown USA at the Depot. Again, July 29th. The next night, we're in Denver at the Newman Center. A little bigger venue that time. Friday, August 11th, we're in Minneapolis. I love Minneapolis in the summer.

At the Pantages. It's gorgeous. And then the next night, August 12th, Chicago at the Auditorium Theater, our hugest venue ever. It's giant! And we said, you know what? God damn it, Chicago has never let us down. They were our first live show city,

and they've always come through for us every day. We've never had an open seat in Chicago ever. Yeah, from Lincoln Hall on. So thank you guys so much for that. That's August 12th. September the 8th, we are in Atlanta at's August 12th. September the 8th, we are in Atlanta at the Tabernacle. September the 9th,

we're in Charlotte at the Knight, which is closing out the festival. I don't know if we're closing out with the festival there. And then Philadelphia, October the 6th at the Fillmore. And then Washington, D.C. at the Howard, October the 7th.

Dates still coming for New York, Boston, Milwaukee, and Phoenix. Those are definitely coming. So they're just working out the final dates there. So they're coming. Get your tickets. They'll be on sale the week after Thanksgiving. So that is if you're from another country.

What is that, like December 1st or something around there? I don't know. Whatever. Either way, quickly, Patreon is another thing you're going to want. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Five dollars or above gets you all the bonus episodes. Two new bonus episodes every other month. Huge back catalog.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show. This week, crime and sports. It's a weird old newspaper thing that will be very funny. Trust me. It has nothing to do with sports. So you'll enjoy that. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about love after lockup again. Yes. Shit. Yeah. Can't wait. That's that. Disc for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about Love After Lockup again. Yes!

Shit, yeah. Can't wait. That said, disclaimer time. Let's do it. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. Obviously, there's murder that's going to happen

and there's going to be jokes also. But what we do here is we go out of our way to not make jokes about the victim or the victim's family. Why, Jane? Because we're assholes. Yeah, Jane? Because we're assholes.

Yeah, but? But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe we're not your cup of tea. Maybe we are. Give it a shot. If you think that, then, you know, maybe we are.

Who knows? Not everybody's compatible. Put it that way. It's true. You never know. So the rest of you, though, that want to have a good time and hear a crazy crazy crazy story i think it's time jimmy to sit back yeah let's go ahead and clear the lungs wherever you are i don't care how public it is shout it out your car window let's do it shut up and kill me murder all right let's do this jimmy. Let's go on a trip. Let's go somewhere.

Let's do it. We're going all the way to South Dakota this week. We don't go to South Dakota too, too often, I will say. We're in Aberdeen, South Dakota. Sorry, we haven't been back more recently, but Aberdeen, South Dakota. That's elsewhere, right? Oh, it does, definitely. It's named after the Scottish Aberdeen.

That's where. It's in northeastern South Dakota up there. It's about two hours and 40 minutes to Pierre, which is the capital of South Dakota. Three hours and five minutes to Sioux Falls. If you want to go there, very exciting. And almost six hours to Hill City, South Dakota, which is our last South Dakota episode, which was episode 274. This is Brown County, area code 605.

Motto here. This is very optimistic. Motto, we're changing the game. Yeah. Unfortunately, no one will notice because we're in South Dakota. That's a parenthesis. We're done playing. We're done.

Quick history of this town here. Before, it was originally inhabited by the Sioux Indians, this area. This is, I think, the Teton Sioux area, actually. Really? Yeah, this is the area of the, these tribes are the ones you don't fuck with. They will. Particularly tough group. Particularly tough group, yeah.

Known for being particularly badass. People, Europeans started coming here for business fur trading that sort of shit in the 1820s and uh they had trading posts all the way up until like the like the 1830s the the first europeans to settle this area were a party of four people so there's probably more ones of all the time just four four said we're moving here fuck it we don't care four people three horses two mules 15 cattle and two wagons that's it they showed up with that and said this ought to do that's huge balls that's wild um they were later joined by another group in the spring so they stayed all winter just with those people just

with those four people going. In northeast South Dakota? In the middle of nowhere. There's no people. There's no anything. Wind blowing, snow everywhere. Just like, I hope more people are around. Maybe a whole season of that. I realize the Sioux aren't very friendly, but I'll talk to, I don't care at this point.

I'd rather try to make friends with someone who wants to kill me rather than, you know, rightfully wants to murder me. Right. Yeah. Either way, it would be difficult. and then more people ended up coming after that now it was the place was named because it was a train stop there's a lot of trains it was like a crossroad for train tracks and the boss of the train company one of the train companies he was from aberdeen scotland so they named it from there yeah so they were like we named this town from the town you're from that's how i hate it that's how arbitrary these sound names are in some of these areas so creative it's fucking interesting a lot of

businesses grew on main street after a while But the problem is constant flooding. It wouldn't rain very much. And when it would rain, it just flooded the shit out of this town. Yeah, it wouldn't. The ground's been dried and hardened, so it doesn't absorb water any longer. No, it absorbs nothing. And it was known as the town in the frog pond. That's what it was known as by others around here.

It's quite the nickname. That's not exactly we're changing the game. Town in the frog pond. Gross. That is not exactly we're changing the game. Town in the frog pond. Gross. That is not even the town with the frog pond. The whole town is inside of a frog pond. In 1882, they decided to build an artesian ditch to control the frog pond effects. So it literally floods to a pond and frogs start hatching.

They go there. At least it's not on Main Street. Because they were saying like they had to. It would flood everybody's basements, everybody's houses. It would flood everything. The town had these big giant steam pumps that would take three weeks to get the water out of the town. But by then it had rained again and then it would, you know, you'd never get ahead of it. And then finally this became a well at some point, apparently, in 1884.

And that kept shit from flooding quite as badly. And that was good. They also called it the Hub City of the Dakotas because there were so many railroad tracks there. So there's a lot of nicknames for a tiny town. It's very strange. The author of The Wizard of Oz, L. Frank Baum, lived here for a few years in the 1890s. He owned a store, a different store every year, and they all failed. So he's a better writer than businessman, apparently.

I hope his family thrived from writing that dumb fucking movie. Well, yeah. He also, after that, he must have had money because to be able to open a shitload of stores every year and fail and still open another, then he later published one of the city's newspapers, which there was nine of them at the time. Jesus, the guy that made some dough. How did he do that? He's got to have some dough, man. The city has a small amusement park that has some Wizard of Oz shit because of that we'll talk about.

The fortitude, James. The fortitude in this place. I'm telling you, it's a fortitude kind of town. Everything's flooded. It's all right that we'll talk about. The fortitude, James. The fortitude in this place. I'm telling you, this is a fortitude kind of town. Everything's flooded. It's alright. It'll dry up. It'll dry. We push on. But there's so many frogs. That's alright. Write a book about it.

Frogs are allowed to be here too. We're all nature now, understand? Like, what the fuck is happening in this town? You're a little too laid back. Reviews of this town. We found a review strain where reviewers are Like, what the fuck is happening in this town? You're a little too laid back. Reviews of this town. We found a review strain where reviewers are arguing with each other years apart, and it's hilarious. Stop it. It's amazing, Jimmy.

That's why we have to get to this. It's very important. I love these reviews so much. They're so close to my heart. So here is five stars. Okay. Aberdeen, South Dakota is an amazing place to live if you're interested in having plenty of opportunities while living in a safe and welcoming town. It's a hell of a lead.

It's big time. The neighborhood that I personally live in is full of young families with little children running around, which is a beautiful sight. Ew. I was going to say, unless this is like a 78-year-old woman, I'm creeped out. Yeah, move, fucker. If it's an old lady with a tray of cookies, I'm fine. Anything other than that, I'm really upset about this. It just shows how the town is growing and how loving each of the families are to welcome new lives into the world.

What? Or they knocked each other up. They don't have to be loving to get pregnant. Even worse now. other up that's they don't have to be loving to get pregnant even worse now like it's going from that person looks at a child and goes oh sex yeah sex love that's incredible sex love made that yeah yeah love made it jimmy lots of kissing and penetration then the stork came i think is what they're getting at so i have never had to worry about having to look over my shoulder when walking down the street or be scared that at any time someone should go crazy and harm lives. I think living in this town has set such a high standard for where I would like to live in the future, and I'm not quite sure that I could possibly find a better place than I'm at.

Okay, apparently this place is beautiful they just love it three stars is this one okay this is very short and this is like a very western response quote things are bad here but they could be worse that's three stars that's hilarious that's very western how is everything here? Could be worse. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate it, sir. Thank you. As he widely tipped his hat and he left. Ain't the best, ain't the worst. Yeah.

Three stars. Quote, you'll hear about something every once in a while, but nothing very serious. I don't know what that means. Something bad happening, I guess. You'll hear about something. That's it. You'll hear about something every once in a while, but nothing very serious be well it's it's bad but it could be worse is what they just said and a lot more worse a lot more worse okay here's two stars i grew up in aberdeen and

i don't recommend it to anyone oh all right bars are about the only place to go and they are just drinking holes well yeah that's a bar that's you just named that's you just described a bar there's dives all right you ever seen a bar in the light you'd go oh this is what is this drinking hole that's what you'd say if you saw a bar in the light what do people do here drink and hate themselves you've worked at bars right you only get there at four and all the lights are on and you're cleaning shit and you're like this place is disgusting and then everybody turns the lights down and people are like, I'll take my pussy out here. And you're like, no, you don't know what I cleaned up. It's gross.

Don't put it away. Please. Urban Meyer's fingering people. Oh, God. Jesus. Don't you know anything? Don't touch the stools. The area lakes are dirty.

Golf courses are just boring. Well, that can go for anywhere. It's a golf course, my friend. Are they saying it's not challenging enough? That par three on hole eight is bullshit? It's super easy? It isn't even a dog leg. What are we supposed to do?

Shopping is pretty much limited to chain stores. Well, that's America. Restaurants are fast food or chains. Again, it is bitter cold in the winter. Well, you're in northern South Dakota. What do you want, man? Mosquitoes take over in the summer. Again, you just named the summer.

I have gone back to visit several times, and I'm always happy to leave. I love that line. And I'm always happy to leave. I don't know how the average person can afford to live there because good jobs are very limited. The only good thing I can say about the town is that it's really easy to ride your bike because it's completely flat. That's a great, right? I mean, they tried to find positive. How frequent are you riding your bike though

that's the other thing who knows i guess you gotta ride it a lot one star now here's where it starts okay this is the good stuff from what i'm seeing on this thread most of the people posting here must be lying or they're part of the problem okay now that's when we start out with that right away yeah it's throwing down the gauntlet here all right i've lived in a lot of different places and i can confidently say i would never recommend this god-awful town to even my worst enemy the locals here are hostile and rejecting towards outsiders they're unwelcoming ignorant and have clearly been improperly socialized like a german shepherd what the fuck they've all been walked on choke collars way too long way and not taken around any other dogs or people they've just

been really kept just been choked constantly in the backyard just tied up to put one of those poles and just choking the police are useless and corrupt scum who will easily turn a blind eye to the all capitals huge meth problem in this town, but will pull over anybody going a few miles above the speed limit. City officials don't stand up for their voters either. When I first moved here, I thought it was just the old people who are such rude jerks, but it's everybody. The young men in this town have no respect for people and maintain loose moral compasses. The men? The men? Loose moral compasses. Wow.

A young man with a loose moral compass? Who would have thunk that? Which probably accounts for the rape statistics that are nearly three times greater than the national average. I'm not sure that's true. I just have it in violent crime later. We'll see. Not a place where I'd raise a family. There's also a college here, so that's probably why. Any place where there's a college, you're going to get three times the rape

just because there's access to that. Booze and being a child. Booze and people of the opposite and same or whatever sex that want each other. So not a place where I'd raise a family. Unethical, dangerous, and horrible town. Okay. All right. Next one.

One star. This town is evil in every sense. Now we're going to evil. Never mind loose moral compass. People are jerks. We're going right to evil now. People are paranoid, unfriendly, cold, and avoidant, and do not like getting to know anyone new. So if you move there, you'll be rejected because you're not one of them.

Most drivers are on drugs. That seems like a guesstimate. No? I don't know how you would know that. That is a wild statement. That's just a wild accusation. And make roads unsafe. They drive the wrong way down one-way streets.

Well, that's a clue. I guess that's a clue. The schools and university are also full of evil beings and are poorly managed. Evil beings? What the shit? Is it the same person, you think? I want to meet this person. Wow.

Businesses in Aberdeen are old, gloomy, and haunted. Wow. Oh, my God. Not only is this building run down, there's ghosts everywhere. One star. I went to this McDonald's expecting the Big Mac meal, and what I got was ghosts. I'm not happy about it. What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm not happy about it. What the fuck are you talking about? There's nothing to look forward to every day except cloudy, depressing weather, freezing to death, and shoveling snow. Whoa. That is the most bleak outlook on life I've ever heard. I really want to meet that person. And creative. And then finally, one star again.

This one's going to talk to this person. They're answering back. One star. I liked that during 10 years living there, we were able to save enough money to get out and be semi-retired. Now, in retrospect, though, I would advise potential students, young families, and professionals not even to stay two years. There are better stepping stones. Weather and small-town provincialism are extreme, and there is something evil about the place more evil what is up with the evil in the hauntings then something evil about this place dot dot dot i am not a born again evangelist and many have

commented on this so they're like i'm not like some you know person that's always shouting fire and brimstone but i know evil when i, basically, and other people have said it also. Even wrote born again. A hint of evil. In case anybody finds out that I'm who I really am on this anonymous website, I'm also not born again, evangelist. Wow, but evil. So evil, haunting, a lot of weird stuff going on. Just a touch of evil.

It's not even religious. I just know what evil looks like. I know evil when I see it. Population here, 28,180 people. And there's a college here, like I said. So you're going to have a lot of the stats are going to be skewed in that way. Median age is 34.9. A lot of people in the younger college age group there as well. Still 49.7% married, though, even though it's a college town, which is super weird.

19% are single with children, so that's double the normal. Race of this town, 86.7% white, 1.8% black, which is more black people than I honestly would expect in the middle of nowhere in South Dakota. South Dakota, 3.4% Asian, 4.2% Native American. I would expect that. And 2.3% Hispanic. 78.2% of the people here are religious, Jimmy. Is that right? That's one of the highest numbers we've ever had.

Wouldn't have expected that. Most of them, 31.5% are Lutheran. As we all know, Lutherans are the Catholics of the wheat belt. I don't know, right? Of the Northern Plains. What are they? The Northern Plains. Wow.

Interesting. They're 0.1% Jewish, so not very Jewish there. Politics in this town, Brown County, 37.3% last election, last presidential election voted Democratic, 60.3% Republican, 2.4% Independent. Median household income here is $47,540 a year. So a little lower than the national average, but nothing out of the bounds of normal. Cost of living, 100 is regular average here at 78 so not too terrible housing though median home cost 177 200 which is very doable way lower than 291 is the national average so that's not bad if we've convinced you damn it you need a touch of

evil in your life you're gonna go see what the hell why the mcdonald's is haunted and what evil's happening down at the wendy's we have for you the aberdeen south dakota real estate report the average two-bedroom rental here goes for 760 which is considerably cheaper than the national average. Here's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 2,268 square feet. It is like a- Say that again. 2,268. Two-bedroom, one-bath? Three-bedroom, one-bath.

Oh, okay. Three-bed, one-bath. I think it's one and a half bath. 2,268 square feet. It is hideous. Its color is a deep, I would call it a deep uh dijon mustard it's a it's a dark yellow baby shit but like from a certain baby food it's really disgusting usc gold it's no no no not gold no no not gold it looks like if someone had is it harvest gold no it's

someone had a packer's helmet in their garage for like a century and now it's like if someone had a is it harvest gold no it's someone had a packer's helmet in their garage for like a century and now it's like got covered in mold and it's like a darker weirder yellow that's what it looks like whoa like on the outside the outside of this home it stands out like a sore thumb it's the ugliest house in any neighborhood around here it's a piece of shit it's just it's ugly it's terrible uh There's a shack outside. I don't know what that's for. I'm terrified. Maybe wood. Either way, $129,000 for that. If you want to slap a coat of paint on it,

good for you. Here's a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,561 square feet. So that's four bedrooms and less square feet there. It's, wow. Someone's grandmother has lived there for the last 60 years she redid the house in about 82 and kept it pristine since then and that's what it looks

like it's weird as shit it's clean though yeah it's oh it's clean yeah it looks like it's super that kitchen gets cleaned to the you know to the core every night like that plastic coating like grandma does down to the raw linoleum. $209,000 for that little slice of heaven. Then finally, four bedroom, three bath, 3,056 square feet. Hey. This is what it basically looks like. It's a cabin, like a log cabin. And it looks like what a married guy thinks his life would look like if he got divorced.

a what a married guy thinks his life would look like if he got divorced i just go live in this cabin and i'd have like heads on the wall and like you know skin blankets and you know things like that lots of flags everywhere it's a real mountain man stuff yeah exactly that's what it looks like five hundred seventy thousand dollars for this house still for what it is it's not a bad you could take all the weird stuff out of there sure things to do very quickly storybook land is here um fam well families enjoy a world of imagination inspired by familiar nursery rhymes it's public domain disney world that's what it is nursery rhymes that are public domain that don't nobody fucking owns any of the copyrights have expired on we we you know trade on that essentially look it's the three blind mice such as humpty dumpty and hickory dickory dock you can slide down jack and jill's hill or visit goldilocks and the three bears see what i'm saying old mcdonald's barn you can go to uh there's also

a medieval castle see what what I'm saying? This is really... Shrek land. It's surrounded by a moat and guarded by knights in armor. The entire family will enjoy the mini Humpty Dumpty roller coaster. The Land of Oz, located within Storybook Land, portrays the well-known characters and settings in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, written by L. Frank Baum. Wonderful Wizard of Oz, written by L. Frank Baum. Dorothy's House features a gift shop and offers a simulated tornado experience with special lighting and sound effects.

And you can stroll down a yellow brick road as well. So have that. And also there is horses to ride for some reason. And the fact that this is the first time we've ever heard of this means it's not a family destination it probably looks like a miniature golf course from the parking lot you know what i mean and then you're like oh that's what's going on in there there's a north pole in colorado springs that's kind of like that but like for christmas shit yeah there's licensed unlicensed off the highway yeah typeway type of deal here. Crime rate in this town, property crime, right about average for property crime, right about national average. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 20% under the national average. It's so evil around here. Evil. But the violent crime that does happen is evil. That's one thing you will say. So that said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do that. Let's get into this, Jimmy, because it's something.

Boy, this is a twisty, weird, weird, weird case. Let's go back to in time a little bit. We need to. Let's get in our time machine. Lights are flashing. I don't know. You got everything, by the way? Did you remember your charger this time, Jimmy? You forget it every time. Then you get in our time machine. Lights are flashing. I don't know. You got everything, by the way? Did you remember your charger this time, Jimmy?

You forget it every time. Then you got to borrow my charger. You just bring yours. We'll just share. Well, we're going back to 1985. They're not going to have any more. That's the thing. We're not like we can go pick one up.

So you got to, any technology. Did these even fit in the outlets back then? We'll make it work, Jimmy. We'll make it work if I have to rig it up. But I need, you're going to need at least the plug-in for your phone for me to be able to make the electric happen all right let's go back to 1985 here we go marty mcfly is going back in time a lot of stuff going on coke is fun stuff coke is screwing up their entire brand by putting out a terrible tasting swill and saying, eh, that's good, right? We're in Stranger Things times here. But instead of Indiana, we're in South Dakota.

So let's talk about a young man who's 19 years old, all right? 19, Michael Kinney, K-I-N-N-E-Y, Michael Kinney. He's 19. He goes to school here at the university that's in Aberdeen. He goes there and, you know, also helps out like at home a little bit. His mom, they seem like they have quite a bit of money, by the way. His mother has an interest in the McNeil Mitchell Quarter and Painted Horse Ranch, which is a noted breeding operation. That's what they say.

Yeah, apparently it's a big horse. They breed and sell horses, these people. They have a big horse ranch. And McNeil is his mom's name, his mom's maiden name. Her name is Sandra McNeil. So apparently it's her family and some other family. His grandparents have money. Mom has money.

He's lined up to inherit all this stuff anyway wow yeah he is uh old michael kinney he's ready to go his mom's single now and she used to be married to a mr kinney yes his dad's name is jack kinney and uh he was a captain with the south dakota highway patrol and now he's a private investigator after retiring from the highway patrol and he lives uh he lives about a half hour away. So that's what's going on here. He lives with mom, goes to school, works a little bit, and they live a little bit west of town, west of Aberdeen. Now, he graduated high school, Michael did, in 1984.

And so he's ready for the world. He's excited. Brand new adult. Brand new adult. He's got an older brother who's in the military at this time. So, you know, this is the family he grew up in. So May 8th, 1985, he's got big plans for the weekend. He's got a turkey hunt lined up. It's his first turkey hunt. He's very excited. He's got his turkey hunting license, and he's all ready to go. In the morning, he leaves his home that he shares with mom, Sandra McNeil, and he's got a couple classes in the morning. The college he goes to, by the way, sounds like a made-up sitcom college.

It's not even real. They couldn't even sit there for five minutes to come up with a decent-sounding college name. They just called it Northern State College. You've got to wear that shirt? State College in a northern state. It works on two accounts. Just put it in there. Northern State. That's not a good shirt at all.

No, it sounds – is that a real college is what I would say. Is that real? Did you make that? Is that from like a show or something? that is that a real college is what I would say. Is that real? Did you make that? Is that from like a show or something? What is that? Yeah, it feels like the unlicensed. Someone on the office go there. Is that where Steve Carell's character went to college?

Like, what's going on here? What the fuck are we talking about? That's what it sounds like to me. Yeah. Northern State. Northern State. Northern State College. It's in a northern state.

And is it respected? I mean, that name, just someone naming it that, that's disrespectful right there. So I'm going to go with no. Just by that. Not even the guy who named the fucking place respects it. It's not even going to be accredited. Just give it a dumb name. All right got it northern state guy well we teach anti-evil enforcement if you walk into a mcdonald's and you see a apparition or a goblin of any kind

we'll teach you how to scoop it right into a milkshake cup and take it down for disposal i wonder if there's a southern state there has There has to be. There's so many colleges. You just name anything. Daffy Duck Agricultural and Mining University probably exists somewhere. It has to. I'm sure it does. It's in western Louisiana somewhere. Yeah.

I think that one's in Missouri. If I remember my colleges correctly. Northern State College. I think the Lakers had a shooting guard who went there one time that's i didn't go to i didn't go to college with that no i think i think not going to that is more respected than going to that it would be like if you went to Desert State College. What? What is that? In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again,

leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two

as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It doesn't even have the name of the state in it, man. So he takes off the morning of the 8th and says bye to mom. He's got classes,

and then he's got a bunch of shit to do that day. He's going to hang out with some friends at night, see his girlfriend. He's got a lot going on here. He's looking forward, though, going off into the Black Hills for a hunting trip with his friend and his father as well.

Him and dad are going to go out on a turkey hunt. So a friend of his, Barry Walther, is the other guy who's coming on the trip. He's been friends with kenny since the second grade and they've been planning and preparing this trip for about three months this is how but a big deal this is that seems like a fucking nightmare of an animal turkey like yeah i get that they're probably delicious because i eat turkey too yeah but to to hunt that like you've got to pick all the balls out of that thing after you shoot it.

You've got to take all the feathers off of it. What a nightmare. You know how easy they'd be to kill because you go outside when we're done here and, you know, you stand outside for a while, you will see turkeys in my woods. Yeah, they're right there. They're not even afraid of us anymore. I could, if I wanted to, I don't, but if I wanted to, I could lull one by just standing there, and then I could run up to it and kick it like a football before it would probably realize I was going to attack it. That's how used to us they are.

Yeah. So, well, yeah, but I wouldn't want to do that because what am I going to do with it then? I've got to take it apart and take all the feathers off. Now you've got to eat it? That's a lot. Dude, the de-feathering part. Fuck that. I just leave the corn out there for them to eat that's all they eat that and wander back off into the would it be funny to as a turkey hunting prank to empty your partner's gun of the of the of the

birdshot and just put slugs in there where'd it go shit well you have de-feathered it my friend well i guess they're gonna go with 22 rifles so you won't have to that's good yeah through and through done yeah i mean you got to be very a very good shot obviously but at the same time you don't have to pick a bunch of shotgun pellets out of the guy hopefully it doesn't hopefully the bullet stays together i would hope yeah i don't know if there's a turkey bone hard enough to splinter a fucking do you do you try to hit that tiny head i think that's a really small target that's a really good shot you gotta be plus they're always moving yeah you'd have to time them on the back thing they're fine if you don't know i'm making a turkey motion with my

head that's why yeah back and forth you'd have to like time it on them and get him on his next steady hand when he goes back i pull the trigger by the time he's forward his head's blown off okay you'd have to time that's so weird you gotta aim at the head right pop it would just fall it's so weird like when that guy in men in black gets shot in the yeah exactly that's what i mean i picture like scanners like it's just with like shit everywhere just viscera it's just plasma everywhere but you can tell we're neither of us hunt because we don't know anything about i don't want to do the like okay so you shoot something now you've got work to do that's my problem with it i want to eat the food i like food a lot and but i don't that's so much with it. I want to eat the food. I like food a lot. But I don't. That's so much work. It really is.

What's your time worth, man? What's it worth? Go to the store. I get that you've got to spend a few bucks, but bullets are expensive, and you've got to buy special clothes to sit in the woods, and then you've got to kill it. You've got to spend hours taking it apart, preparing it. It seems like you could have just bought yourself a- And then there's trophy hunts.

You run out there to go shoot a lion. Now you a butcher sir because you know what i mean no matter what position no matter what job you have killing things now you're a butcher yeah figure it out motherfucker kill yeah oh jesus christ do it it's ridiculous no it's it's crazy so i'm incapable i already know it yeah that's why we don't hunt. We know our limitations. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. So they've been planning this for a long time. And you have to get everything in in South Dakota while it's warm.

Because they're planning it for early May, which is still probably a little chilly, I would think, at night. Because by late August, it's winter again. So you really got to cram it in there. August, it's winter again, so you really got to cram it in there. So Kenny had just, or Michael Kenny, our guy here, just got his hunting license, had the oil changed in his car. He had a gunsmith adjust the trigger on his shotgun because he's also bringing a shotgun just in case they encounter. Because up here, you can encounter grizzly bears in the Black Hills. You better have something stronger than a fucking.22 on you if you're going to wander through the hills all day. You never know. There's bears.

So he hangs out that day, goes to classes, picks up his guns, gets his license, does his whole deal, spends the day hanging out with Barry Walther. They eat some pizza that night, as we'll talk about exactly the kind of pizza they had and everything else. And they're making plans for kind of the final plans for the trip. Exactly what time we're leaving, exactly when we're getting here. Are we going to go here? Are we going to go there? So his friend said he was, you know, a real happy-go-lucky guy that night, chilling. He had no, like, money troubles or anything like that.

He's doing just fine real relaxed kind of world at my feet kind of a guy yeah kind of a guy who's you know a 20 year old kid who's got a rich family who he's inheriting everything from that kind of guy amazing you know not a lot of worries for his future so uh they're planning everything they're you know doing everything like that about 8 30.30 p.m., he leaves his friend, leaves Barry, after they ate a bunch of pizza. Their pizza was like, I want to say sausage, olives, mushrooms, really loaded it up. Peppers maybe. He ends up going over to his girlfriend's house, does Michael Kinney.

Her name is Kelly Mewing. Mewing, like what is that kitten doing yeah type of thing it's mewing patrick ewing with an m yeah exactly what it is yeah so i prefer my kitten explanation that was much cuter i love patrick ewing but he can't compare to a kitten in terms of adorableness let's be honest i just see a very sweaty woman now i see see Patrick Ewing standing there. You remember when he would look angry? Because I'm a huge Knicks fan. Love Patrick Ewing. Remember when he looked angry?

I'm saying somebody. Did he ever look happy? But like when someone really pissed him off, got in his face, tried to whatever. I'm picturing that face. He's looking, sweat stripping off, and he goes, meow. That's what I'm picturing. He's making thatured. Meow. Meow. Meow. He's making that noise.

Meow. Yeah. But looking mean. So they watched a movie on TV. God, I wish I knew what movie. But I don't know what it was. I even tried to look up listings. I tried to look up newspapers in South Dakota and find those listings. Find the TV guide.

But there was other stuff on. I couldn't really decipher what they were watching. And they may have rented something anyway. That's the other thing. It says on television, but you don't know if it was a tape that they had or something. Who the hell knows? Could have had a beta going. We don't know.

Yeah. So they hang out for about three hours, enough time for probably a little action and a little pre-hunting good luck action. Hell yeah. A little pre-hunt hump and uh you know watching this movie and then we're gonna get going you know what i mean yeah so uh kenny leaves and he says i'll be in touch the next day don't worry about it you know obviously i'll talk to you and i'll call you before i leave and all that kind of shit so

she said goodbye she waves to him see you later that's that um now he never ends up showing up at home that night though to hunt so no at home to sleep to go hunting the next day yeah he leaves at 11 30 and the next morning his mom doesn't see him around and sandra's like well where the hell is he so she starts she gets in her car to drive to town like she has to do. And as she's driving to town, she sees Michael's car parked on a side road on an abandoned gravel road that's on their property about a quarter mile from the ranch home. And so she's like, that's Michael's car. What the fuck? She pulls down the gravel road she looks in uh on the front seat of the car is uh a checklist

of all the of uh hunting things to do like go get my license to all this there's a checklist there and the keys are in the car no michael no michael though so she's like well that's odd where the fuck why would he park it a quarter mile from the house and walk away? So she starts just kind of being not really worried, but just kind of what the fuck. I don't know if that's a term. Maybe he's sleeping in the woods tonight to prepare for tomorrow night. I don't know. He's getting used to it. He's getting accustomed to it.

He's wading in. Maybe he's up to his knees. Build up a tolerance to this shit. There's certain levels of worry. You're what the worry there's you're what the fuck and then you're worried after that like hey what the fuck's going on and then like oh wow this is bad i'm worried so she's a little you know slightly worried and she calls his friends starts calling up his friends to try to find out where he is now right away you know they have a

good relationship if she knows all of her friends phone numbers the mother and like and son and stuff you know what i mean like i didn't want to introduce my friends to my mom let alone give that give her their numbers here's a list of numbers just in case so these are probably friends he's had a long time that he's you know that aren't dirt bags that he hides from his parents that sort of thing so that gives you a kind of an idea of who he is right there. So she calls right away the girlfriend first, because that's who you would call first. Maybe he fell asleep over there.

They generally know the most about what's going on in the dude's life. Yeah, and that's it. And I guess it was her birthday, or I'm sorry, it was his birthday a few days before. So it was his 19th birthday, so maybe the mother called her was like well you guys maybe like out and having like a late you know belated birthday celebration had a couple too

many passed out or something like that and she said no he watched a movie he left at 11 30 and so his friends all came over they start searching around the ranch because it's a huge property right i mean that road's a quarter mile from his house and it's on their property so it's yeah it's their road they own a road yeah it tells you that this is a huge you gotta have a lot of land for horses you can't have like a regular yard and be breeding horses back there yeah it's not like yeah you can't it's not like goats no you gotta give them some room you're just in a cul-de-sac and you have like a horse breeding operation going on out of your concrete blocked backyard like your backyard you just bring horses back there you had a six by eight stall for about 30 of them it's all keep them in there you know they butt up against each other they get along really i played tetris to get the horses put away good god man animals have gotten a lot of

shit in our jokes and everything else this week so far really taking the brunt of it so they're uh his friends fan out they're looking for him they can't find him uh anywhere they search all through town going through all his favorite places that he could be is he at the you know the ice cream spot is he having a beer at the at that drinking hole over there what is he doing so they can't seem to find him at all so after you know the morning and early afternoon of not being able to find him finally his mother sandra says i gotta call the police this is getting weird now the police are like so you have a 20 year old kid who you haven't seen for like 12 who's been

missing for sort of 12 hours. Like, it's not really a crime. He could be sleeping one off. He could be tying one on. He could have met a girl. Like, come on, what are we talking about here? But they said, that's fine. You know, I guess we'll check it out, basically.

We'll come and look at the car and look for signs of maybe if there's, they're going to come and look and see if there's blood or something on the car or some obvious sign of something, basically. So the next day goes by, nobody finds him,

nobody hears from him. May 9th goes by. Nothing. So that's the day they're looking for him and they call the cops. Then 9 a.m. the next morning, May 10th,

Sandra McNeil's phone rings. Uh-oh. She picks it up. It's an unidentified man. It's a man on the line. She doesn't know who it is. The caller tells her that, in a weird voice, that she should go to a phone booth in a certain bar in Aberdeen. A certain drinking hall has a phone booth.

Go there. Retrieve an envelope from under the pay phone. And that's if you want to know what happened to your son. Oh, my God. And then click, hangs up on her. So what do you do if you're her? Run to that pay phone. Run to that pay phone, yeah.

Do you call the cops? They're going to need that envelope first. You've already called the cops. Yeah, they said fuck off. I mean, they did look, and they said, well, if you hear anything, let us know. If we hear anything, we'll let you know. She's heard something. She's heard something.

So she runs down to the pay phone, grabs the envelope, and the envelope says this, quote, this is the letter inside the envelope anyway. Lucky, by the way, some like just cleaning up waitress didn't find this and just, you know, what is this? Drunken idiots and tore it up and threw it in the garbage. It says, quote, I want $200,000 in 50s and 100s. No cops. Nobody knows. You have until Saturday night or Sunday sometime for most of the money or all of it. This is the this is the most, sometimes Saturday night, maybe Sunday,

whatever's convenient for you. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, try to have most of it at least. We could talk, you know. Whenever you get it. We'll talk about a due date later. We could work out a payment plan. I'm not a hard guy.

I'm not a hard-hearted guy. We could work it out. We could do a monthly thing. It's not going to get this much. There's going to be interest. I understand that. I'm sure you do. But we'll work it out. We'll work it out we could do a monthly thing get this much there's going to be interest i understand that i'm sure you do but we'll work it out we'll work it out maybe we could you know what we can let's talk to your finance company maybe we can just tack it into your mortgage and make it one big balloon payment and then we get you know what i mean those consolidation people can probably help you take a loan on your 401k then you can pay it back it's free money it's

what do you think anything like that maybe read the note again you have a penalty if you uh you're early withdrawal i get it okay never mind tell you what most of the money saturday night or sometime sunday whenever which by the way sometimes sunday which is a terrible plan because go into the weekend and somehow arrange to get two hundred thousand dollars in cash while all the banks are closed. Do that for me. Thank you. Sometime Sunday. How about no time Sunday?

They're closed entirely. They're closed Saturday, Sunday. Every last one of them. All of them. So then he says, I want all of the money before you get your son back. No cops or he dies. Okay. So that's the plan.

All right. That's what she gets. she's like oh shit 200 grand they want what do we do um so she goes directly to the cops obviously because every anybody would unless you know i don't know she's got some evidence right now that we now can't fingerprint because she finger fucked it unless you're a mafia family you're gonna you're gonna handle this through the police unless you have like some sort of network of people out there that can handle this for you. Probably going to talk to the cops. So she does talk to the cops.

The cops say, all right, well, let's set up a sting. She's supposed to set it up, and we'll talk about this other phone call she gets. Right now, she just knows they want $200,000 by Saturday night or Sunday. They weren't vague. They were pretty vague about it. So I don't know what this means. I don't know if there's a special fund that banks have put aside for this or what. But it says that police run around to several local banks to secure $190,000 in cash.

So apparently, I don't know if they like it on the basis of they'd bring it back. You know what I mean? I guess it's under the basis of, don't worry, we're going to just set this in a bag and shoot the motherfucker that comes to get it. Yeah, it's just a prop. We're basically, it's a prop. We're just borrowing this prop. Imagine it's like a knife helmet or something.

It's the same thing. Just a prop. We'll bring it back. You try to go to the bank and get that it's tough it's tough convince them don't worry i'll bring i'll bring it right back i'll totally bring it right back totally yeah and it's easy to shoot a turkey in the head in the head any other things i can convince you of so they do all of this they secure 190 000 that's all they could pull they couldn't pull together the last 10 grand for some reason or reason. Or they said, he said most.

Let's just, let's see if this is enough. Put an IOU in the bag for $10,000 and we've got $200,000. That's it. Set up a payment plan. Sign it. Make it very official. Get it notarized. Dear kidnapper.

So they're ready. They bring the money to her. they're like okay you keep this with you and they keep an fbi the fbi is involved now because it's a ransom situation so they have like fbi agents at her house living there with her you know trying to do this may 13th so a couple days goes by and they get another phone call finally three days after the first phone call. And they said this phone call instructs her that she is to leave the money near a statue in Aberdeen Park near Northern State University or college there at 9 p.m. 9 p.m. that night. Okay. Very important. The caller informs Sandra that Michael is, quote, okay.

And to prove that I have him, he is wearing Nike shoes and jeans and this shirt. And that's probably the last thing you saw him in, right? And so she knows that it's real. So she says, can I talk to him? And he says the caller says, not until I get the money. Yeah. And she says, is Mike all right? And the caller says, he's fine. Again, can I talk to him? Not until I get the money. Then he said and she says, oh, please, just let me talk to him. Just let me say one word to him. Just let him talk. Say one thing. Just let me know he's there and the guy the caller says quote nope not until i get the money okay and this is all recorded by the fbi phones were tapped you know the whole law and order situation where they're sitting around their living room with like eight fbi agents and a it's a real investigation a briefcase with like a real real to real in it you know what i mean guys with headphones on going pointing yes now you got him okay keep him talking doing this like the wheel turning come on keep him talking

it's all happening almost got it almost got it we got to keep him on the line for 78 seconds we got it recorded but we couldn't we couldn't trace the call we almost had it he's somewhere somewhere in the region. That's all we know. So 9.04 p.m. So they're a little late. I don't know. They're really testing. 190 grand.

They show up four minutes late. They're really pushing it. Truly. The disrespect. I'd show up five early, wouldn't you? For a ransom exchange? I think I'm showing up a couple minutes early. You're talking about the kids got to be like, what the fuck, guys? Hey, Ma. I mean, what the fuck guys hey ma i mean what the fuck ma jesus christ oh my what time is it swear to god we eat dinner like 8 30 every night

this fucking lady never on time never on time money's not there the fucking the time it's not even there on time jesus now they know how mortgage companies all the time fuck it's late again all right almost all that's almost all of it i suppose you can't really kick them out 80 your total's 13 20 what's happening you know what we're gonna go ahead and take this for now though no we'll take all this so 904 they show up it's sandra mcneil It's mom and a woman FBI agent posing as her niece. Okay. So they just have one that sort of looks like a niece of hers, and they have her just dress like her niece and go with her. She's just like a 20-year-old chick hanging out with her aunt.

The most youthful FBI agent they have. Come on, sweetie. Come to the ransom drop with me is a very strange family outing also isn't it it is yeah no no we're just coming to take your daughter to go to a ransom drop no the fbi will be there it's fine don't worry about it so they drop off 190 000 in cash and there's a false bottom in the briefcase that contains a tracking device. Hell yeah. 1985. Of course.

Yeah. It probably weighed more than the suitcase of money. It was the entire fucking false bottom. It was a huge, giant thing, but it was a tracking device. It was a giant cinder block in the bottom of this thing. Pretty much. I don't even think it was GPS at the time. I think it was like a sonar type of thing.

A handheld thing that blinked a red light. Well, where they had to stay within a certain range of it to keep it, you know, to keep the whatever. So they do all of that. They drop it off. Then mom goes home. Okay. Now, she's got at home are like everyone she knows is like hanging out there. She's got a bunch of police officers hanging out there who are they're not even they're just interested in the case at this point.

Hanging out. His girlfriend's there. You know, Michael's girlfriend Mewing is there. His buddy Walther was supposed to go hunting with him is there. Everybody's sitting around hanging out at the house waiting. So the suitcase sits there for an hour by the statue. All right. FBI agents fucking everywhere, by the statue all right fbi agents fucking everywhere

by the way the suspense is crazy everywhere in every window all over the place they have a helicopter just off site ready to fucking follow the person if they lose them i mean it's really you're fucked this person's fucked so they pull up right uh everything Uh, everything's going. The, the, a car pulls up. It's a blue Oldsmobile that pulls up on a 75 Oldsmobile. It's blue. So a big piece of shit pulls on up. A young man gets out. Oh,

okay. Runs up there, grabs the suitcase, runs back to his car and hops in and pulls off in the blue Oldsmobile. So obviously the cops follow him. The FBI agents follow him at a decent distance at about 150. They follow him for a couple hours. They want to see where he's going because they don't know if this is the kidnapper or if this is some, you know, one of the kidnappers who's now going to take this money to the main kidnapper hideout where they have michael tied to a chair presumably with a gag in his mouth you know soaked in gasoline

a northern state college uh fraternity boy who just saw the thing get dropped yeah i was like what's in that briefcase man i'm going to get it i'm gonna get it but the car pulled up got it pulled away so they know it's there so they follow him all the way to minnesota wow out of state driving out of state that's why it's good that the fbi is involved in this at this point at 1 15 in the morning now so this is three hours later after he's picked up the suitcase the beeper it's it's raining it's raining really hard the car by the way is going sometimes 85 miles an hour and in a 50 like it's it's driving kind of crazy and the rain i guess is hampering the beeper is sick the tracker signal because this is not gps this is 1985 tracking technology so

stay real close to it and point something at it and make sure you, you know, it's not raining or cloudy or there's a tree in the way or so they decide before this person obviously gets to where they're going, they have to pull them over cause they can't lose him. They don't want to lose him. So they pull them over here and he's got a, it's a 20 year old young man and he's got a 17 year old girl with

him oh we'll talk about that this is in starbuck minnesota where starbucks was born it wasn't but it's starbuck minnesota really it absolutely is um now the girl they said the the authorities here they don't think the girl is in on the conspiracy and she's going to be released later back to her parents. And we'll find out that that's that's his cousin. Actually, this guy's cousin. The young man is Todd Michael Miller. OK, is his name. He's 20 years old.

And Todd Michael Miller has a wife already. And his son was born on May 7th. So brand new dad, brand new dad. This is the Kenny disappeared the day after Todd's son was born. So he's got a son named Jesse that's born on May 7th. Now, that's the guy who they tracked him before he left Aberdeen. dropped his car off changed clothes switched to an orange camaro that he started driving and picked up his 17 year old sister paula not his cousin his sister sister so picks up his 17 year old sister changed changes clothes grabs the camaro and takes off and that's what the cops

follow heading off to starbucks he's a kid he works on his father's ranch his father has a ranch where they sell horses and breed horses it seems like everybody in this area has a horse ranch at this time there's not everybody that's involved in this story at least everyone yeah it's there so they had followed miller across the border to starbuck they closed they stopped his car at a roadblock and arrested him they said that the car had gotten gone really fast at times they were worried about losing him at the scene where they where they catch him and arrest him obviously because he's you know carrying ransom money that's a that's a crime they find the briefcase in the

camaro and it contained most of the ransom money had 189 180 dollars in. He spent a little bit of cash already. Well, then they said that in his wallet he had $760, which still doesn't equal $190,000. He might have stopped and got a sandwich or gave his mom $20 or something. But that was found in the briefcase of the trunk. The briefcase was found in the trunk. The rest of the money was in the wallet. The money is traced through serial numbers. Right.

So the money in his wallet was $862 total. $760 of it identified as bills that came from the ransom. So he had a little bit of full money. Yeah. He had like $100 of his own money, $102 of his own money in there. He said, they said, where did you get this money in your wallet? And he said, well, it's $500 of that I withdrew from my bank account. I have $500.

I took it out of my bank account. They said, well, there's way more than $500 in the wallet. And he said, well, the rest, yeah, I got $500 out of the bank. The rest of it was given to me by a guy so okay why lie at that point you have a briefcase full of money in your car that you switched cars with so you couldn't say like i didn't even know there was a briefcase briefcase they saw you take it and then you switched it and put it in another car so you this is your briefcase man so they said well who gave it to you he's like uh mr bob jacobs is his name yeah yep um mr bob gave it to me as

traveling money because jacobs now follow close cops okay i know you guys are a little stunod maybe you won't you won't follow my logic a big horse trader like me. But this Jacobs guy was supposed to buy a horse from me. See, that's the thing. He lives. This guy, he's in Alexandria, Minnesota. This Jacobs guy. So, you know, they were supposed to. This was traveling money to deliver his horse. That's how this works, because I'm going to sell him a horse. Right. So then out of nowhere, the Department of Criminal Investigation agent, a Douglas Douglas Lake is his name. He asks Miller just, quote, Where's Mike? Just says that just interjects. Where's Mike? Let's cut to the chase here.

Where's your fucking friend that we're looking for? Yeah, we don't got time for this. I don't care about Bob Jacobs. Is he does anyone holding him for ransom? If not. I don't care about Bob Jacobs. Is anyone holding him for ransom? If not, I don't give a shit. So, where's Mike? And he responded this. And by the way, the guy's name is Mike

Kenny, we know. That's missing. But his mom's maiden name is McNeil, and the farm is under McNeil. He says this, quote, I wouldn't hurt Mike McNeil. He's my best friend. Best friend. You don't know his last name. Best friend. But you miss said his last name, which is I even know it. You don't know. But he does know him. We'll find out. That's the thing. He's a childhood school

bus companion. They rode the same bus to school together when they were kids and kind of knew each other a little bit through the years, but that was their main connection is in the fifth grade, they rode the bus together. Why is he called Mike McNeil? Mike McNeil. I don't know. That's not his name, obviously. It's very bizarre.

And they both graduated from Aberdeen Central High School in 1984, but everybody says they've just been acquaintances through high school. They weren't best friends by any stretch of the imagination. And the, you know, his friend Barry, who is his best friend and they go, they're planning to go hunting. If it's, if it's Mike, Mike's dad and the other, and another guy, that guy is Mike's best friend if he's taken him to hunt with his dad. So, you know what I mean? Like it's not, it's not his best friend, this guy. So it's a very strange thing. The only thing they have in common is going to the same school and they both come from ranching backgrounds.

Yeah, that's it. So they said, the other thing is at that point, none of them had mentioned Mike's last name. They just said, where's Mike? So this kid, he just came out with, I know exactly what you're talking about. I know this kid. Yeah, I know what Mike you're talking about. There's not more than one Mike in this town. Never. No. This town, he just came out with, I know exactly what you're talking about. I know which kid. Yeah, I know which Mike you're talking about. There's not more than one Mike in this town. Never.

No. This town, one Mike. College, there's only one Mike allowed in college. Meanwhile, this kid's middle name is Mike. His middle name is Michael. Exactly. So Miller, this Todd Miller here, says that, you know, I don't know if he's, because they're like, do you think he's in danger? And he's like, I don't fucking know. He didn't say anything about it. I don't know. I don't know

anything about it. So the agent turns Miller over to the Aberdeen Police Department, tells Todd, go with these guys. And the agent from the investigative unit tells the officers that Bob Jacobs, this is what he's telling us. He's telling, I'll get you guys up to speed. He's telling us a Bob Jacobs, who's an acquaintance of his asked him to pick up a package behind the statue in the park.

So this guy wants you to buy a horse from you, but also pick up a package behind a statue in a park. Be my courier for weird shit. For weird shit. Nobody leaves legitimate things behind a statue in a park for somebody. Ever. You know? And a package. It's a fucking briefcase full of cash, man.

That's really weird. I'm sorry. I'm suspicious at that point. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor. I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called

Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the W wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple

podcasts they said that uh he was this is they said he told us that he was supposed to deliver it to jacobs in alexandria minnesota and in exchange for doing that then jacobs would buy a horse from him for $45,000. Okay. So once you go there, you pick up that money and bring it to him. He's going to chop you off 45 grand. You go back and get his horse and then the deal is sealed. All right. Well, they said, well, how does this guy have so much 190 grand in cash to be

thrown around in a briefcase? Yeah. What's the deal with that? Yeah. What's the deal with that? Like who would be leaving him that much money behind a statue? Like, yeah, it's not a bank loan. Wells Fargo doesn't leave shit behind the statue. I wouldn't leave $500 out and open somewhere. No, under a rock anyway. Yeah. The bank doesn't say like, well, your mortgage came through just fine. you can pick it up in cash in a briefcase behind the statue in the town square that's where we'll leave it at exactly 904 and every month

on the 15th we expect you to put a check there uh to pay it back there's a special check rock you'll see it it's got our logo on it we paid ridiculous this is ridiculous so the todd miller says i think that jacobs must be ridiculous so the todd miller says i think that jacobs must be involved with drugs and that's what i think that's the whole thing he had me probably pick up drug money so he could buy a horse with it i'm getting to be a deep plot here i would say so the officers i love the way this they put this by the way in the court document quote the officers suggested that his story seemed untrue in other words they said bullshit they said i don't know todd i mean it's interesting but that sounds like the biggest load of shit i've ever been fed in my life that's what that sounds like

to me i'm not gonna lie but what if i said that to you would you believe it honestly todd todd todd i didn't grow up on a horse farm but that story sounds like horse shit horse shit didn't grow up on a horse farm but i do know the smell of horse shit when i when it wafts toward me so i'm just gonna say that's horse shit todd todd you and i both know that is horse shit oh how many times they were like, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd. Like making Todd into 12 syllables. Eventually they just made a face that said Todd. Todd.

Todd. Dude. The voice is getting lower. Todd. Todd. Todd. You know, that's not true. Todd.

Must we mew at you? Is that what you need? Because I will. I'll mew not true, Todd. Must we mew at you? Is that what you need? Because I will. I'll mew right now, motherfucker. So they're like, this sounds like bullshit. And they said, listen, fucking, you know, feed us the real story here. And he said, okay, okay, you're right. That was seven Jacobs in the drug.

Silly. Totally silly. Story's going to change now. And I want to help Michael Kinney out, too. I really do. I'm friends with the guy. I told you, silly. Story's going to change now. And I want to help Michael Kinney out too. I really do. I'm friends with the guy. I told you, my best friend. Your best friend in the world whose name I don't know.

We're best friends, so I'd like to help you too. And the cops go, well, if you'd like to help and help your friend to make sure he's okay, this is the time to be truthful, pal. And he said, okay. All right. Well, here's the real truth. This is story number two and the real truth. I'm not bullshitting now.

So he said, listen, Jacobs, remember Jacobs I told you about? Well, he's back again, so he's in this story too. So he told me by telephone, okay, to call Mrs. McNeil, call Michael's's mom and then also to deliver the envelope to the bar so i did that too i'm sorry i should have told you that too but this this jacobs is apparently like a criminal mastermind and i was a little bit freaked out by him so todd is now telling us i made the phone call i put the note i picked up So now, yes, now we know he picked up the cash. Now he's also admitting to the phone call and writing the note. Yeah.

And placing the note as well. But all at the behest of this terrible, terrible Mr. Jacobs man who is just an awful, awful man. So he said that Miller says that they told me if I refused, Jacob said he told me that he that I'd never see my friend again. So he must have had Kenny. And if I refused, he's saying he's going to kill Kenny. It's like, I don't know what to do. He said. So then he got a second call.

Todd did get a second call from this Jacobs guy. This Jacobs is a monster telling you the real telephone telephone terrorist. He's going to lay down the law over there and he said in this call jacob's doubled down on the threat not only will i hurt your friend i will kill your newborn baby oh your baby and your pretty young wife there cindy she's gonna die too that's right i'll kill cindy's ass too i'll kill cindy i'll kill babies yeah i'll kill your wife i'll kill your wife your baby and your best friend. That's where I'm at right now.

I will. Right. Test me. I'll kill your mom. I swear to God, I'm this close. I'm this fucking close. Write the letter, Todd. So he said he had to do it.

He felt like he had no choice in the matter. And he, according to him, he picked up the money and he was taking it to a hotel, a motel in Alexandria, Minnesota. That was Todd's job, according to Todd. And that was so far, that's explanation number three because he had the original explanation when they pulled him over. Then he had a bullshit story. Now he's got his third one. The next day, they were like, okay.

So Todd's like, today's the day I'm supposed to make the drop, man. Like, I'm supposed to be in Alexandria day I'm supposed to make the drop, man. Yeah. Like, I'm supposed to be in Alexandria. I'm supposed to make this drop. Jacobs is going to be, you know, he's going to know something's up if I'm not there. So they go, sweet. We'll wire you up, and we're going to take you over to Alexandria, and we're going to do a sting operation, baby. So this is exciting.

We're going to swear you in. Oh, dude, they wire him up, man. They got his whole thing, and he's got a 1985 giant recorder on him. Donnie Brasco style. He's trying to figure this out. Like he's got a Walkman on his hip. Yeah, that's the best way to play it would be to come in with a Walkman like dancing. Walking on sunshine.

You got the money? Yeah, I do. Oh, it's starting to feel good right now. I don't know what's out in 85 Ghostbusters yeah love this Ghostbusters song haven't seen the movie but I think I'm gonna

just cause of this song man it fucking rocks is Golden Earring's Twilight Zone out yet? it's gotta be I'm sure it's been out for a while yeah when the bullet hits the bone

oh yeah I'm sure he loves it all it's a good one that's he's into it man such a great song just pick anything Simone. Oh, yeah. I'm sure he loves it all. It's a good one. He's into it, man. Such a great song. Just pick anything from the mid-80s and groove to it. Shock

the monkey. Don't you know you got to sledge hammer. There was a lot of songs with hoo-hoo in them. Oh, hoo-hoos. Yeah, a lot of songs with who who in them. Oh, who who's. Yeah, a lot of who who's.

That was the big deal then. There's a lot of saxophone going on. There was a weird like 50s revival. So there's a lot of saxophone. So you had to do all that. Whoa, here she comes. You like Hall and Oates? Fucking this rocks right here yeah she's a man

eater baby you want your money i got your cash bro cool whoa here she comes dude you gotta get this fucking tape dude it rocks how crazy is that one guy has a mustache and one guy doesn't it's wild bro i'm telling you a lot of woos and woes and those guys were badass singing huey lewis fun time music was a fucking joke oh it's terrible it's just like now we are in 1985 music yeah we're in 1985 music we are right now eventually there will be a millie vanillie to bring it all down and then we'll bring it back to where people actually maybe can still

can sing and actually know how to play an instrument or two so even fucking rap now they don't even have rap lyrics it's just like it's so weird there's just like one line and they're just like it doesn't even matter what it is they can say anything just yeah going to get some paper towels and they'll just say it over and over and that'll be the whole song paper towels and it'll just have like some weird paper towels going going going and it's just like some different and different weird audio auto-tune shit with like slow yeah quicker picker up i don't know what these motherfuckers sound like i don't know because they don't brawny they don't use their voice brawny brawny. So fucked.

It's so weird. So either way. And other music is just as bad. So it's bad stuff. We have to get it back to something else. We're in trouble. It always, music is very cyclical though. It all was crap and then, you know, it changed a little bit.

And you could have like three guys with instruments or, you know, RZA in his basement with his fucking mixing mixing and put something good together like that and it'll get back to that again but either way next time next day here none of that matters they wire up Todd Miller okay he's going okay he's taken to the motel in Alexandria by the FBI and um set out there with his briefcase. He's standing out there waiting at the predetermined time and place, but Jacobs doesn't show, man. No? He's on to them. Jacobs must be on to them.

He smelled a rat. He smelled it coming. This Jacobs, to get to this level, he must have a sixth sense for what's going to happen in the crime world anyway. I mean, people dropping him off 200 grand behind statues. Sure. Jacobs doesn't show. Miller is shrugging.

I don't know what's going on, Todd says. I don't know what could have happened. So they take him back to Aberdeen and they held him in custody. Okay. They're going to just hold him here. An FBI agent interviews him on May 16th, interviews Todd, at which time Todd said, okay, here's what really happened. I got another story. I got another story. I got another story.

You've heard three. Here's four. What's the difference, right? Yeah. What's the change in here? What's changing here? He said, May 7th, okay, I went out the evening after my son was born, and I was celebrating the birth of my son at a bar with some friends.

As you do, yes. As you do, which must have gone over my son at a bar with some friends. As you do. Yes. Which must have gone over really well at home, I'm sure. At least in the delivery ward of the hospital. She's probably home. She just got home. There's just like diapers scattered everywhere. The day before, she's still in the hospital.

Maybe. If it was natural, they'll kick you out in 24, though. 24 i feel like i stayed 48 i don't know unless there's a problem remember yeah unless there's issues but a healthy delivery there who i had the baby i was gonna say the hospital can't do anything about who your ex-wife is that's not that's a problem but that's not gonna help i don't think that we've determined than a doctor. Mr. Wisman, congratulations. You have a healthy baby boy and your wife's a real bitch though. That's my medical.

That's my medical opinion. Your son fabulous, healthy. He's going to live a strong life. You're going to be very happy together. I divorce her though. I'm just saying I get that. I see people at worst they're in the most pain but that was different that was different mr westman i'm just saying right now that was high five for the baby and a little warning about your future i'm just telling you

open my tears coming up sir open my how are you on depression i don't handle it well oh boy it's gonna get bad well then i suggest in the next 24 hours you better go out to a bar with your friends and celebrate because you're gonna need to pick me up at least enjoy the child for a minute no shit so this is the day the night before mich disappears. OK, so he says he leaves the bar on 11 p.m. Just, you know, feeling good. He handed out cigars. I'm sure everything is great. He said as he left the bar, he had he dips in one alley to walk through to the other street to go to his car.

And he's approached by two men. Yeah. OK. They were both big. One white man and his words, quote quote a white man and an indian okay so came at him they they held him in the alley would not let him leave and they asked him for a favor said hey buddy you're gonna do us a favor at that point the white man punched him in the stomach very hard oh to let him know he means but this guy's seen a lot of movies is what i mean

they pull you into an alley and one guy talks while the other punches you in the stomach go you listening up good there buddy poof i'm listening oh okay you hear it now so you tuned up now you're all tuned up now you're all tuned in aren't you that's right well get on the right frequency pal because it's coming so he said the white man then made a veiled threat against miller and his baby somehow they knew that his baby was alive even though it was 24 hours old they already knew about it so word gets around fast in this town and then so they they said you're gonna do us a favor pow and then if you don't we're gonna kill that little baby of yours all right you're ready you're gonna do us a favor went, oh, I'll do you a favor.

And then they said, all right. And they let him go. We'll get back to you. We'll get back to you with the favor. But we needed to get you in a holding pattern. He's committed now. We'll call you about it. Yeah.

Not right this minute, but now you're committed to a future favor. So you know we mean business. These are bad stories. You know we mean business. So he said he went home and he said a call came in to him. He didn't give these people his phone number, but they've got his number, though, too. They got his number. These are all knowing people here. My God, they're good.

And he said he recognized that the voice immediately as the voice of the white man in the alley who punched him in the stomach. He met him once, so he should know his voice. Oh, you never forget it. Imprinted. You never forget the guy who you met one time. So he recognized him, and he said at that point, the white man called him and instructed him to take a note from his mailbox, Todd's mailbox. He said, go in your mailbox and check.

There'll be a note in there. Take that note and deliver it to this bar so Mrs. McNeil can get it. And if you don't do it, I'm going to kill your friend Mike, I'm going to kill your baby, and I'm going to kill your wife. Everybody's dead. So this is what you're going to do. He said, Kinney is going, he said that kinney is wearing you can taste it also when you talk to the mother just so she knows you mean business kinney who i have next

to me right now this is the mysterious white man from the alley he says he's wearing blue jeans and nike so you should tell the mother that so the mother knows that it's really him because i got him right here so todd said he did as he was told. He made the process. He called Mrs. McNeil on May 10th. On May 12th, he said that's when he got another phone call from the white man. Jesus, this guy, he just never stops. Received another call, and this time he had more instructions regarding the ransom money.

And that's just Todd relayed that to Sandra McNeil. What was he supposed to do? All he could do is be a middleman. Miller says he was promised, quote, some money if he followed orders. But he doesn't know how much it was. They just said, we'll take care of you. We'll give you some money if you do this for us. We'll settle up with you.

And we won't kill you and your baby. So win- win for you. So many wins. You're going to be winning all day. It's just a win win situation at this point. So no problem. He said as a cover story to explain his trip to Minnesota. He told the FBI agent because, you know, he was scared.

He told the FBI agent about about the horse and Mr. Jacobs who doesn't exist and all that sort of thing. He said he got the ransom money that he was told to get, Todd says, and he went to an Aberdeen bar, tried to recruit his friend to join him on a trip. Before

he picked up Paula, he tried to get his friend Toby Whitlinger to join him and Toby said no. By the way, the pitch for Toby is amazing. I'll get into this. Oh, boy. He offered Toby, come with me to Alexandria, Minnesota. I've got to do all this shit.

I'll give you $50. So he thought he's getting away scot-free with $190,000, and he offers his friend $50 to come with him. He's a cheap twat, too, this Miller. Truly, what a dick. What a dick. Well, he thought he was getting 200 grand. Yeah, he thought he was getting 200 grand, so I'll give you 50 bucks.

So this guy said, Toby Whitlinger said he didn't want to go, so that's when he called his sister, Paul, and he just said, hey, you want to go for a ride with me to Minnesota? And she was like, sure, why not? 17. Why does he need a friend?

I don't know. It's a long trip. He just doesn't want to drive alone. It's going to be boring. I like to play the license plate game in the car, okay? I can't do it alone. It's fucking boring alone. I always win.

I hate it. So two days later on May 18th. Now, two days later in our current timeline, not the past, two days later it's May 18th and Miller says, Hey, I'd like to talk to Agent Moore, the FBI agent. And I said, okay. And he said, I got another story. Everything I've told you so far isn't true. Remember how I told you four stories?

None of those are true. Okay. This now, the fifth story. isn't true remember how i told you four store none of those are true okay this this this now the fifth story one and i got a really good one for him i think he's gonna like it well my it's just my conscience has been eating me alive i can't lie you know what i mean i have a real george washington type of thing going on so it's just not cool for me to lie trying to really channel my inner marty mcfly who i don't think would lie i really don't i don't think he would lie even even if it meant that his mom was coming on to him i don't think he would tell the truth i think he just skate through i feel like i'm cherry treeing this whole thing

i'm gonna cherry tree this bitch for you right now let's do this all right check this out okay agent moore here's the thing michael kinney, our missing kidnapping victim, and I'm putting that in air. My best friend, yeah. My best buddy, obviously, who I'm putting in air quotes here, me being Todd Miller, our victim. He actually, this is all him. Oh, he kidnapped himself? He initiated the whole thing. Yeah.

He said, this isn't even, all I know is, he goes he goes this is kinney wanted to extort money from his mother and he didn't want to wait for an inheritance he wanted to extort a bunch of money from his mother i think he's got a drug thing going on and um basically he initiated it and he he just asked me if i would help him out and he'd throw me a few bucks and i was like sure i don't give a fuck if you're stealing money from your mom. Cool, I'll do it. He said, so I don't know. He said, my job in the scheme was to call Sandra McNeil and to pick up

the ransom and then I suggested that we'd meet up at the motel in Alexandria to do the drop-off to him. That's it. So, I mean, it's all him, though. It's Michael Kinney. I didn't want to tell you until now.'ve been telling you all these lies to to protect him you know protect our whole scheme here but that's really what it is um he said that uh you know kinney had told him he said michael

told me that he was in some kind of trouble and todd says he just assumed it was drug related because why else would you need a whole bunch of money and to like get away? It's got to be a drug thing. You know, he said. So on May 7th, Todd says that he told Kenny he was backing out. So I told Michael I'm not doing this anymore. I can't do it. That's crazy.

But then the next day he said Todd says he received a phone call from an unknown man. This is really it's really easy when you can just throw an unknown man in there on a phone. He had a voice like this, and he said, You will do what you're told. You have no choice, or your baby will die. I'll kill him.

Ah, the taste of newborn blood. An unknown man. Unknown man, with a deep voice. Yeah, the taste of newborn blood. An unknown man. Unknown man with a deep voice. Yeah, the carpet pissers. That way he's scarier. You know what I mean? If he called up and he was just like, hey, what's going on, pal? Tell you what, we're going to kill your baby.

What do you think of that? You'd be like, fuck you. When a guy's like, we're going to kill your baby. You're like, oh, God, James Earl Jones is going to kill our baby. Watch out. Makes it much scarier. So this unknown person informed Miller here that he had to follow through with the plan. Or what do you think would happen?

They'll cut off his Johnson. His baby would be killed. That's always the thing, too. They go right to threaten the child, threaten the baby's life, which is hilarious. So, uh,

Todd then said, yes, I admit it. I wrote the ransom note and I made the calls to Mrs. McNeil, but that was part of the plan. Todd couldn't, or,

uh, Michael couldn't call his mom himself. She had to recognize his number. She had to recognize her, his name, his voice. She had to recognize his handwriting had to be me and he said that on may 12th the deep voiced man called him again and said quote do as you're told nobody else is involved and nobody gets hurt click so he said fuck he said

they said well you picked up the money okay so that all they said, well, you picked up the money. Okay. So that all tracks. You did that. Then you picked up the money and then you disobeyed. So you obeyed everything except nobody else gets involved. You went and picked up your little sister. Yeah. And he said, they said, why'd you pick up your 17 year old sister? And he said, well, that's for protection. Oh yeah.

Cause you know, that's when I'm looking for backup. That's for protection. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, that's when I'm looking for backup. She's a bad bitch, man. When I'm looking for physical backup for a possibly deadly crime situation, I'm like, where's the nearest high school junior girl I'm looking for? Or boy, really. It doesn't matter.

But especially, I'm looking for, I need a 17-year-old girl. I'm going to need her to kick the ass of a man who's willing to slaughter a newborn. Who's dying to decapitate my baby.'t wait this man will kill babies do you think he's gonna not kill a 17 year old girl and that's what the cops said to him they go well that sounds stupid and he said hey quote there's safety in numbers this kid is a dummy if you brought like two dozen 17 year old girls yeah there's safety in that but just another person to kill is just all you brought somebody else to murder probably within 24 17 year old girls one of them's gonna get a pretty good shot in i probably gonna date me i'm saying something i don't think i could beat up 24 of them no they wear rings and shit it'll hurt

they get their nails done that's all your fucking face off and there's a couple i'm sure that do like they've been doing like some sort of jujitsu since they were nine or something yeah it's a ufc fan a couple of them fight i'm sure even 17 year old girls so they're out there she's the captain of the wrestling team or something, twist you into a pretzel. It's possible. So he says that they, that Kinney, Michael Kinney approached him with this plan all the way back in April at first. And then there's, he said that two others also were there,

who he doesn't know who they were. They were Michael Kinney's friends who were also in on the plotting of the conspiracy. And they had three different meetings from April 26th through May 3rd, all to plan this and plot it. That's a lot of trust you got in three separate guys that they won't say something about this. No shit.

And then Michael Kinney, for some reason, went and got a hunting license and made plans to go on a trip and got his rifles adjusted and did all of his shit, which is very strange. And so, yeah, Miller said Todd says they're supposed to meet up in Alexandria and divide up the ransom between them. And that's how it would work here. So, yeah, they asked his friend that he asked to go on the trip, the Toby Whitlinger guy. He said he told Toby that he had to go collect 45 000 for a horse he sold so he was telling him one of the stories he told the cops and whitlinger didn't go because he said he had a job interview the next day and also because he was suspicious he said it seemed

kind of strange to go down and pick up 45 000 we would have left around midnight i had more or less a gut feeling something was wrong and mill Miller offered him $50 to do that. Another friend here, here's a guy who saw Todd Miller the night that the ransom money was picked up in the park, he says, because they talked to other people and they're looking for witnesses. This is Brian Kubler of Aberdeen. He's 20. He said that Miller appeared to be nervous that night when he saw him.

He said he was upset about something. I could tell he was nervous. He had a pale look on his face. He was talking really fast. That was the night he was picking up $200,000 or $190,000 in ransom money. That's why he was nervous, probably. So,

based on this story that comes out now, that this was all a big extortion plot, the FBI is asked by the press, are you going to arrest Michael Kenny? Yeah. And the FBI spokesman said, we have to consider that option. But at this point, no, they said, we have nothing to charge Kenny with. If we did, he'd already be charged. So they said, we've looked into a list of suspects. We've eliminated some. They said, we've ruled out some things, but there's still a lot we have to look at.

The biggest thing right now we need to do is talk with Michael Kinney. Okay. Okay. So now they put out the next day, as a result of the interview with Todd Miller in his fifth story, the FBI issues a warrant for Michael Kinney's arrest. Okay. Okay.

The investigators also find an eyewitness who claims to have seen Michael Kinney at the hotel, the motel that was supposed to be the exchange point in Alexandria on the evening of May 13th. Hmm. Okay. Now, so there's that. The motel records have been subpoenaed trying to confirm something, but obviously back then people could sign in under any name.

They said that the officers and the FBI said that the sighting appears to be a solid one, but they're trying to pinpoint the time. And so, you know, they're trying to do that. But they're trying to pinpoint the time. And so they're trying to do that. There's also an anonymous phone tip from a woman who indicated that Michael Kinney could be found hiding out at an abandoned farm southeast of Aberdeen. So this triggers, I mean, a fucking massive. They go out to get him. They search a five to six mile radius of Aberdeen, but they

don't find him in southeastern Aberdeen. So they're trying to figure out what's the deal with Michael. Does he have problems? Does Michael Kinney have financial problems? So they look into it. He got a pretty good size inheritance from his grandmother that's in some kind of trust or something. He also is set up to inherit his mother's interest in some kind of trust or something he also is the set up to inherit his mother's interest in the quarter and painted horse ranch and uh also kinney's stepfather died the year before left everything in his estate to kinney's mother sandra mcneil which would all go to him right so he had several he has several inheritances coming through so they said that doesn't suggest a real motive for needing money for michael kinney because he seems to have money

and they checked it out and he had like almost three thousand dollars in his checking account and he's enrolled in college he's got things to do if you're 20 and you live at home and it's 1985 and you have three grand in your checking account you're on top of the fucking world you could go to hawaii back then you know You could go to Hawaii back then. You know, you could go to like you could have you could do a lot with that back then. So they were they're asking what the hell basically. And this is what a Brown County state attorney said. This is like the prosecutor.

They said, we don't know what's going on with Michael. They said it could have been drugs. It could have been just he wanted to rip off his parents for a large sum of money. I guess it's all speculation at this point until we get some additional information and talk to him. That is fascinating how they're focusing on him as being a criminal. And he's trying to extort his mom. May 24th, 1985, Todd Miller is released from jail. Oh, is that right? He's released. He had a $100,000 bail. That's what it was set at. But it is then reduced to $10,000, and he's allowed to put up 10% of that.

So for $1,000, he's out of jail. Fascinating. And at home with his parents. The federal charges he faces are interstate transportation of stolen property and interference with commerce by threats of violence. And also the state charges grand theft and theft by

threats for basically for taking the money. So if convicted, the combined penalty for this is $20,000 fine and up to 30 years in prison if convicted on the federal charges. It's still a lot. And the state maximum is 10 years on this. So the state also intends to charge Paula as an adult with aiding and abetting grand theft as well, his little sister, which is crazy.

So either way, they're like, you know, they let him go. He's the secondary guy now. They need Michael Kinney as the mastermind here. May 28, 1985. So this is all in a very short window. Right now, yeah. Right now, May 28, 1985, on a remote farm seven miles west of Aberdeen. There's a farmer named Charles Boulay.

Boulay? B-O-U-L-A-I-S, Boulay, I guess. Boulayus? Boulayus, maybe. I don't know. He's a farmer, either way. He's a farmer, and it rained on the 28th. It was a rainy day on the 28th of May, and Charles, the farmer, decides he wanted to go check his rain gauges out to see what he had out there.

So as he does, he's going around, he's got a couple of rain gauges set up around his farm. There's one out by an old ice house. It's like an old broken down ice house from back in the day where they would store ice blocks. And he is checking the rain gauge and he notices a weed growing out of the front of the shack near the fence where he kept his rain gauge. There's one,

like a nasty weed that you got to get out by the roots, you know, a big thick one. So he's like, God damn it. So he crouches down. He's trying to, because you got to get right close to the ground with those things or else they'll break and you don't get the roots and they come right back. They'll come right back.

Yep. And while he's pulling the weed, he spots a white tennis shoe. Oh. Like in the shack, in the iced house, the shack. And he says, who the fuck would leave a shoe in the hell nobody comes out here who's gonna leave a shoe out there and it looks pretty new it's white and i can see it's not like old or beat up or anything he said i thought who would throw away a white a new white tennis shoe quote so i looked in there and i could see part of a pant leg just above that shoe. He said he stuck his head in the door and could see a dead body,

which was partially covered by a door on top of him. And he said it was unusual because the ice house hadn't had a door in years. So now there's a door there. He stuck his head in the doorway and somewhere somebody got a door and put it on top of this, this dead body. So as he looks closer, that's when he sees the body he takes off holy shit goes and gets the cops they show up they have no idea how long he's been there this body um but they do from the t-shirt uh it's a tan sleeveless t-shirt that uh that michael's girlfriend had given him for his birthday

his jeans and his nike shoes they identify him primarily uh preliminarily as michael kinney and then later on they will do dental records and make sure and it is michael kinney they find out here very dead um this guy who found him the farmer he doesn't even live there he just checks his rain gauge every two weeks or so. Holy shit. Yeah. He said he rarely looks in the shack. There's no reason to go look in it.

He said if he didn't see that weed, he wouldn't have bent down and looked in it this time. Right. He said, um, you know, it's, you can barely see it. They're saying as you drive on highway, us highway 14, you can see this shack sort of barely visible, visible behind some lilac bushes back there like it's way off the road i mean obviously it's a nice place to put a body if you're trying to get away for i don't know a time yeah for christ's sake that's good forever eventually the weird part is and this is some small town shit this farmer farmer charles here is the brother of nancy mitchell nancy mitchell

is a business partner of sandra mcneil it's the mcneil mitchell yeah horse ranch she's the mitchell this she nancy mitchell is the is the mitchell and her brother is the guy who found this body interesting super weird right so um maybe they did it to keep his interest in the horse farm out when his mom dies i don't know we don't know it's some serious that's some some plain shit right there how deep's this man's voice how sir how deep is here you got an indian friend by any chance? So they check it out, the body, and it shows evidence of three.22 caliber bullet wounds and plenty of this head. The head has been beaten in with a square-edged instrument. Jesus Christ. There are.

I mean, they said the gunshots or the head bashing would have killed him either way. Either way. Either way. But they said it's probably the gunshot because that's cut off something in his aorta. So that would have done it. In the chest. Yeah. There's two in the chest, one in the head, I think, and then his head was bashed in as well.

They said he was decomposed, maggot ridden, and appeared to have been dumped there, but there's no indication that he was killed there oh he wasn't taken out there and killed he's not tied up in any way either he's just just dumped him there they said the uh the doctor that performed the autopsy like i said said either of the things could have been fatal but the gunshot wound to the the aorta was probably the actual cause of death the corpse this is from the report, quote, the corpse was in a partially mummified state and showed no signs of having ever been tied up. Partially mummified.

Samples of the stomach contents were taken and analyzed, which included an olive, degenerated vegetable matter, meat fibers, which were consistent with his last known meal, a pizza topped with pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, and olives.

How about that? Consumed May 8th at 630 PM. That's when we know. That's when we knew. He said that normally that the doctor testified, normally food passes through the stomach in four to six hours with variations, obviously from person

to person but he said that this that kenny must have been dead for two to three weeks although the estimates are very rough so they said this to pass through it he had to be killed within a certain amount of hours four to six hours of 6 30 p.m of that time and he left his girlfriend's house at 11 30 so sometime between 11 30 and 1230 seems to be the window of how long he was alive for. So, yeah, they said that a forensic anthropologist came in and estimated the body was in the ice house for 18 to 20 days. Although there's a lot of dispute later on based on insect activity and shit. One thing that's crazy, there's a guy from Aberdeen here named Daniel Cavanaugh, and he said that he feels terrible because he was at the ice house eight days earlier

and didn't fucking find him. He said when he was there, the ice house door was in place, and he noticed nothing out of the ordinary. So he said, all I that was that there's a door on the ice house and years previous there hadn't been so he just said oh someone must have stuck a door on there that's all he thought he said i've looked at the building for five or six years on this particular day there was a door on it that struck me as odd but he said he didn't you know he didn't fucking uh didn't even think it. He said that he knew the Kinney family and learned of Kinney's body being found a couple of weeks later.

And he said, I felt bad. There was a possibility he could have been in there tied up or whatever. And I didn't go open the door and look in. Well, good news, man. That is not the case. No, it's so weird, too. He's a Northwestern Bell supervisor for the phone company there. He stopped at the ice house at

the abandoned farm he said he was returning from a business trip and wanted to stretch his legs and had been stopping at the same spot for six years to pick asparagus and he said he's yeah so he has nothing to do with this farm he just fucking shows up they said there was no odor or anything suspicious either he He was partially mummified. Like he stopped smelling even. He was beyond that. At this point, Todd Miller asks to go back to jail. He still is not charged, but he's afraid now. He says he's afraid for his life now.

So now he says he wants to go back to jail to be put in protective custody. So he voluntarily goes back to jail. And then he's still on bail so he can leave whenever he wants and then a couple days later he leaves again okay i'm good now i think i'll be okay maybe jail isn't the right answer so yeah now the reaction is they talked to all of kinney's people and michael kinney they said that no one around him can find anything to suggest he was plotting his own kidnapping right no behavior changes no telltale signs of any kind, no odd plans.

People that knew both of them, Todd and Michael, said they couldn't believe that either of them were involved in anything like this. It doesn't make any sense. They said they're both regarded as clean cut and neither was thought of as a troublemaker. Just a couple of good guys.

No nothing. Sandracneil said her son didn't need for money at all he drove a nice car had his own computer video games he's a spoiled kid he's got plenty of money right does great for himself the sheriff said quote i guess if it was my son i'd feel the same way but investigators deal with facts and the facts right now indicated that he at least was involved in the initial planning yeah those facts are based on todd miller's word right he said that yeah in his fifth story right so what makes that more true than anything else that's it doesn't make any sense so there's no corroboration whatsoever for it so the sandra mcneil says the mom she says she doesn't resent

the investigators for suspecting her son but she says quote i just hope they get who actually did it so she's like you can blame him but once you look into it find the right person some blame the cops for his death as well that's going around including ms mewing here the girlfriend she said she thinks the officers should have waited to make the arrest the night that they followed fucking Todd Miller, and maybe they would have found something. Maybe they would have known more. They said that they jumped on him too quick.

They shouldn't have got in there. They said Kenny might be alive if they had waited. So they said that the FBI says they believe the officers made the right decision. The decision, though, Agent Moore said, we didn't cause the kid's death. I don't believe it's unfortunate that it happened. Yeah, that's terrific. So they're looking for another weapon. They don't have the gun.

They don't have anything. They don't have the tire iron. They're thinking it looks like a tire iron, possibly that he was bashed in the head with. So they're like, we need a tire iron. it so they're like we need a tire iron so martin miller who is todd's father says he had taken a tire iron that was missing from his son's car in may 1985 he said the tire iron iron you're looking for i took it out of the car in may of 1985 that's probably why you didn't find it and so uh martin miller said it's the one i took out of todd and c's car which is the blue Oldsmobile that's Cindy's car when I changed a tire last March or April

he said it was in his garage during May of 1985 Martin Miller also says that his family uses.22 caliber guns but it's to shoot snapping turtles on the ranch what a nightmare even the turtles are dangerous here

isn't that cute oh he took a chunk out of What a nightmare. Fucking even the turtles are dangerous here. Oh, isn't that cute? Oh, he took a chunk out of my leg. Fuck. That is the scariest turtle I've ever seen. Oh, they're nasty. God damn it, they're scary. They are so fucking scary. They're nasty, dude.

They're really mean. Ugly. Ugly, mean. They also found a live.22 cartridge in Todd's car when he was arrested. in todd's car when he was arrested uh martin miller also said that he uh that to buy shells in south dakota the purchaser must sign his name he said to his knowledge todd had never purchased any shells so he's like i don't know if he had his own ammo or what so they're wondering everyone's wondering was michael kinney involved in his own murder like was this a thing where he said fake kidnap me get the money and then the people who were

were in the plot with him did they just say fuck it let's just kill him and keep all the money it seems like a big stretch from hey we're gonna rip off dude's mom with his whole lot yeah it's a whole lot so his family and friends say there's no way that he's involved. They said that, but he's still an agent. He's still a suspect. Twelve FBI agents and three investigators from the sheriff's office, two crime labs and a state agent are all working on the case at that point. And they said, yeah, it could have been drugs. Who knows? They keep just saying that.

We don't know what it is. But FBI agents said his investigation so far discounts drugs as a possible motive for michael kenney they said that he's only known to smoke marijuana he smokes that almost daily he said but there's no evidence that he's dealing any drugs or nobody needs two hundred thousand dollars to pay someone back just because you bought a an eighth from them last week like that's two hundred thousand dollars a weed is a lot of fucking weed that's a shitload of weed especially in 85 that'll last you a long fucking time totally yeah that's a lot so they also said that uh shit weed but it'll last you a while

they said it also there doesn't seem to be any indication that kenny would want to cheat his mother out of money they seem to be close so may May 29th, 85 Miller here. They're talking to Miller again. They're back talking to him. And they said that it would certainly help our case if we knew if his alibi is substantiated. Talking about Todd Miller here with this murder. So they're saying that he could have taken place in the theater. They don't know if maybe Miller just got tied up into this because he was threatened.

They had Miller take a lie detector test. Okay. Um, he, they were inconclusive or he failed. They never passed one with flying colors or anything. Yeah. Welcome to the small town of Chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper in this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran. Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. But they said that he isn't linked to any murder yet, and they said they haven't ruled it out, but, you know, he isn't linked at this time.

So for physical evidence, they ended up, like I said, they think he was there 18 to 20 days before he was found. The other there's going to be people later who argue that he was just there for a week. They said that the the guy who said he was there 18 to 20 days, that forensic anthropologist never actually visited the shed. But he saw the body and based his conclusions upon photos, weather data, and other information. So I don't know if going to the shed is important for a forensic anthropologist or not. Does it matter? I don't want to sound stupid and say it does or it doesn't because I don't know. Does it matter how long he's been in the shed?

Because we know how long he's been dead. He's got a fucking olive in his stomach that's it we know we got that seems like the more important part yeah who gives a fuck when he was put there that's who gives a shit exactly it doesn't matter um so they said that i don't know and i don't know if that's important or not like i said i don't want to sound stupid because i'm too stupid to know whether that's even a stupid question i'm so stupid i don't even know whether that's even a stupid question. I'm so stupid, I don't even know if that's a stupid question. So whether it's important to visit the shed or not, like I said, I have no idea.

This guy also said that a screwdriver or a tire iron may have caused the injuries to the head. Might have been a large screwdriver as well. Like the handle of it? I guess, or maybe not stabbing. Unless it's stabbing, because a tire iron sometimes has that big screwdriver yeah because it's got that kind of point

in his head like where it's crushed in a square oh wow so another person here an FBI body fluids specialist which sounds like a gross t-shirt that a douche bag would wear in a bar I'm an FBI body fluids specialist right here it's something that a fratbag would wear in a bar i'm an fbi body fluid specialist right here

it's something that a frat boy wears to a fucking halloween party totally yeah with like sunglasses and like a little earpiece in his ear and some fucking stains on the shirt yeah so yeah god this is my my stain shirt this guy's name is robert hall and he said that he tested blood samples from Kenny's body, and the first set of tests were consistent with only type AB blood, adding that he couldn't get results from the second test because the blood was in poor condition. So they said only 4% of people at that time have type AB blood. So that's why they think they can – there's no DNA testing, but they can narrow it very much down. If there's a blood somewhere, only four percent of people have that. So it's a lot. It's a lot less.

This guy said the blood from the specimens on the liner of Miller's wife's car, the Oldsmobile that he picked the ransom money up in, was type AB blood. He said there's also no way to determine how long the blood has been inside the trunk and that there's no hospital or medical records to cross check with other stuff. So another woman here, Judith Dieter, she said that she saw Miller, Todd Miller, on May 11th, 1985, when he was at a convenience store in Aberdeen. She said she thought it was unusual that he was washing his car because it was raining. That is unusual. Yeah, it's very unusual. Good call, dear. Wash your car in the rain. And if you do hear advice, murderers, if you do murder someone, yes, you should wash whatever forensic evidence out of your car. Don't do it in the rain. That looks suspicious.

That looks more suspicious than having blood on it, really. If you're washing the outside of your car in the rain, just drive it, man. Yeah, that's the same thing. It'll get it off. It'll get it all off. You'll never get it dry, I'll tell you that much. Never, no. So she said that, yeah, she thought that was odd.

Miller's mother-in-law, Cindyy's mom here sandra j oliver wow both guys names uh mother's names are sandra um or that mother-in-law here anyway she said that a blue oldsmobile is that she once owned she gave to her daughter cindy who's miller's wife so they're connecting that he definitely has that car the fbi guy said he removed the or i'm sorry sandra oliver miller's mother-in-law todd's mother-in-law said she removed a factory installed carpet from the trunk of the car on may 23rd 1985 what after her daughter complained of a musty smell i don't think you know what must what is this good fellas i hit a skunk karen all right it's a fucking corpse can no one does no one know what rotting flesh smells like for fuck's sake you can't identify must and fucking decomp and corpse those are very different must and decomp smell entirely different totally different little musty wow

that's an understatement so she said though that she didn't see any blood on the liner and she said she sprinkled baking soda on it to get rid of the odor yeah which they did find they found a the way they described it they found a in the trunk they had a ripped out liner and some strange white powder so it turns out that's baking soda from his mother-in-law not cocaine that is a mom's solution to everything they thought it was coke they thought like oh this all makes sense now there's coke all over this trunk like oh no that's arm and hammer from fucking cindy cindy's mom never mind that's a mom solution.

She was out of Febreze, so she did this. Febreze hasn't been invented yet, and she's out of dryer sheets. That's it. She's all out. So also there's bullets here. Bullet fragments from Kenny's body were the same type as a bullet found in Miller's car when he was arrested on May 14th near Starbuck, Minnesota. as a bullet found in Miller's car when he was arrested on May 14th near Starbuck, Minnesota. They identified the bullets as copper-coated.22 caliber long rifle bullets.

The fragments resembled bullets manufactured by Winchester Western. He said that a live round in the car was a Winchester Western. So they examined also four guns to see if they could be linked to the bullet fragments in the body. Three of the guns, all belonging to Miller, were ruled out, Examined also four guns to see if they could be linked to the bullet fragments in the body. Three of the guns, all belonging to Miller, were ruled out, but the bullets could have been fired by a pistol belonging to Kinney and that he would have had with him at the time. Another person here, the Brown County Chief Deputy, Glenn Imbiri, he said that he spotted a check written on Kinney's account, Michael's account, that looked like a forgery. Check number 239 was written to an Aberdeen convenience store for $25. It was dated May 6th, two days before Kenny disappeared. But store owner Rick Beigler testified that it must have been written on May 10th after Kinney's disappearance.

He said it was deposited in the bank on May 11th, and he always deposits all checks the next day. Okay, so somebody predated it? Somebody predated it, yeah. So whoever did that was thinking they predated it so it would look like that. So they said that the check 239 differs from other checks written by Kinney. The name Michael is spelled wrong. That's a hint by a guy whose middle name is fucking Michael. It's his middle fucking name.

It's literally. Yeah. I never used that one. Is it a year? Is it? Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. It sounds like Mike ale, I guess, but it could be Mike E-L, I suppose.

E-L, I don't know. Fuck, God damn it. Sound it out, Michael. Sounds like there should be an O-L-E at the end. Shit, God damn it. Did he mix up the A and the E? Is that what happened? I don't know.

They don't say that. It was just spelled differently. And the date is written out in words instead of just numbers, as Kenny has done on all of his other checks. This guy doesn't know how checks are written? So, no. This guy wrote, like, you know, May whatever rather than just five dash. So there you go. Cindy Miller, Todd's wife, said that she noticed no blood or spots on her husband's clothes when she did the laundry.

Law enforcement officers picked up Miller's clothes on June 18th. Oh, my. A month something later, the ones that he was wearing. But they'd been washed by then and worn and washed again. So many times, yeah. Jesus. Cindy Miller also said that she and her husband did not go to a car wash on May 11th, even though the car wash lady said, I remember that guy washing that car standing in the fucking rain. It's not the guy washing the car in the rain stands out because I stared at him going, what the fuck is this dipshit doing washing his goddamn car in the rain?

They're stewing about it. Yeah. Oldsmobile. Why would he do that? It's so fucking bizarre. What a dick. What a dick what a dick so June 5th 1985 though the investigators are convinced that Michael Kinney helped plot a kidnapping

that backfired and ended in his murder they do they think that it must be a bizarre turn of events here so they're like they're they gonna have murder charges well there's a grand jury investigation into Michael's death and they said there's not enough evidence yet to charge anyone with murder, and they're looking into it. There's court documents. They searched the house, the surrounding areas, the vehicles of Miller and his family. They have clothing, writing supplies, tools, and two.22 caliber guns that were all seized and could possibly have some evidentiary value. Physical evidence, too. Doug Lake, who's a DCI agent. He said that three searches of Miller's home and family vehicles were done. And on June 18th, they searched the trunk of the car owned by Cindy.

And there was factory installed carpeting missing there, as was a lug wrench that's usually in there and a strange white powder substance spread around the trunk, which we found out is baking soda later. The second search done on July 3rd, they took hair and blood samples from Miller and they noticed that what he thought to be blood inside the car trunk at that point. Then they noticed a blood spot. They seized the car, sealed it up and took it to the county impound shed so lab specialists

could remove the blood on July 15th. Um, the state forensic laboratory in Pierre did chemical tests to determine whether the substance was blood. Additional samples were gathered on July 29th and the trunk was vacuumed to preserve fibers and other evidence. So Miller obviously was arrested before that. Um, they found the gloves, they found the live 22 caliber ammo that. They found the gloves. They found the live.22 caliber ammo that matches the ammo in Michael.

They searched his car, all of that. They said that it was light enough. That's what they said. Basically, the first time they looked through the car, they said it was light enough that if we had done a thorough job, we would have seen it. So we should have seen the blood the first time. They were a little upset about that. They said the June 18th search was not thorough because he was concentrating on items in the car trunk rather than on what was missing, the tire iron in the carpet.

So that's pretty stupid. The statement said the person who killed Kenny would have had Kenny's hair and blood on his clothing and footwear. The agents used a special vacuum. They sampled up everything. They got everything done. They said that the fibers on Kinney's clothing, Michael Kinney, the dead man, there were several rayon fibers taken from his clothing that matched the type of fiber in the trunk lining. That particular type of rayon fiber was used in

general motors cars from 1971 through 1976 this is a 75 oldsmobile that's on miller that's on kinney's clothes that nails it but that's also a lot of fucking cars that's also about you probably half a million cars you've just brought more than that maybe literally that are on the road at that time now i don't know if anybody else is a suspect in this case that's driving one of those cars, though. They said that the one investigator said, my opinion is that there would be a very strong association existing between the victim and the debris of the vacuuming from that car. In my opinion, the chance or probability the victim was not in the trunk of the car is extremely small. Yeah, that's that's bad. That doesn't look good there for for Todd here. They they said that his mother, Todd's mother, Carolyn, told an agent that her son was not home when she got home at 10.30 p.m. on May 8, 1985.

They said that Mrs. Miller told him, the investigator, that she got out of bed, looked out the window, and saw the Oldsmobile that her son and his wife drove parked in the driveway at about 11.30 p.m. So, yeah, there's that. so he wasn't home for a window they um also she said that she saw todd walking down the hallway at their home at about 11 30 that night none of these things she mentioned in her first interview in june so by july she suddenly had an alibi for him that she didn't have a month before okay so that's interesting though because she said well yeah i guess she's saying yeah he left home at the at the time that he was exactly

right yeah because he's still at his girlfriend's from 11 30 so that really shuts that window pretty fast there they said that they searched miller's closet and um you know like i said the signs of blood and all that kind of shit uh another uh dr. Thomas Henry, a forensic pathologist, said that he examined and tested two vials of stomach content and he found the olives and all that kind of shit. And Barry Walther, he in his statement says that Kenny ate half a pizza at his house between 630 and 7 p.m. on May 8th. And he's they said the largest piece of olive was 15 times larger than it needs to be before it'll pass into the intestine. So it was getting broken down still. So he definitely was in that window.

So at this point, they decide to charge Todd Miller with murder. They're like, let's go ahead and charge him with murder. That trunk shit, the hair and fibers in the trunk are a lot, basically. That trunk shit, the hair and fibers in the trunk are a lot. Basically, they said the blood was too badly deteriorated for analysis and to be absolutely conclusive. So the blood that they found in the trunk, they they did all of this. Other evidence demonstrates that Miller's handwriting matched that on the forged check on the bank account and all that kind of thing. So, by the way too, an eyewitness placed Miller at the convenience store where the check was passed, and Kinney's checkbook was never found.

It wasn't on him. It wasn't in his room. So they go to trial. Right away, the judge denies defense motions to find Miller innocent right away. They said, just let's dismiss the charges. And they said no. The judge also refused to allow as evidence blood scrapings taken from the trunk of the car because he said they were possibly misleading

and there was a lack of foundation because they couldn't do conclusive testing also the photographs taken of the blood inside the trunk lid were not admissible as well so they're going to ignore that the prosecution says the very simple motive was money this guy had money their family had money he wanted to you know extort the family and then you have to actually kill this guy because what else are you going to do now the defense theory there's the whole thing is listen the prosecution saying that he died 18 to 20 days before his body was found the defense though they're going to try to prove that Michael Kinney died only about a week before the body was found. And when he was killed, Miller was already in jail.

So it couldn't happen. Yeah, but that's a balls fucking— I guess you could say all he's been eating is pepperoni and sausage and all the pizza. So that's his pie of choice. Yeah. So that's what he gets on it. But I mean, yeah. Then the defense experts also say that Kinney, they think that Kinney wasn't even killed in the state of South Dakota.

a southern state then driven back and dumped because the type of maggots in and around the body were from a type of blowfly found farther south at that time of year that's what the defense experts say although this testimony it comes out was premised on studies that haven't been updated since 1949 so insect patterns change in 35 or so years yeah yeah if it's a degree warmer up there they could they'll scoot a little bit that's how it works so that didn't quite that was a dumb one so the defense lawyer told the jurors that that kinney masterminded the extortion scheme of his own mother and that todd miller had no idea that his family is having such financial problems because we find out that Todd Miller's family is having huge financial problems like his dad could lose his ranch very soon here.

Oh, fuck. They said that his defense attorneys, though, say that Miller didn't know that the land bank had set a May 13th deadline for his father to bring his loan up to date. And they didn't know any of that. They said instead, my guy didn't know that. Kenny just needed money because he's involved in drugs. That's the real thing here. He said, quote, this is the defense attorney, Mike was in some kind of trouble, either because

he wasn't satisfied with life or he had a habit Aberdeen couldn't take care of. Jesus Christ. So he needed $200,000. He said the defense attorney says Todd Miller refused to take part in the scheme, but later did take part in it because he was so scared for his wife and baby, as any new father would be. And he said that Kinney and Miller had been friends since the fourth grade, but they went their separate ways in high school when Todd Miller stayed on the straight and narrow and Kinney and Miller had been friends since the fourth grade, but they went their separate ways in high school

when Todd Miller stayed on the straight and narrow and Kinney turned to drugs. Jesus, man. Then his lawyer says, quote, I think when you're done, you'll be willing to bet your life that Todd Miller is not guilty. Todd is relying on it. There you go.

So they also have the hotel clerk. She says, this is a defense witness, she says two young men came into her Super 8 motel the night of May 13th, 1985, and went up the stairs to a room. She said one of them came down later and asked for $2 in change. In an interview with the FBI, this clerk said she identified Kinney from a photo as the man who asked for the change. Michael Kinney, the dead guy here. She said she remembered Kinney because the first time she saw him, he reminded her of someone else and she had to look twice. So in cross-examination, though, the clerk said that she picked the wrong photo when asked during the investigation to identify another man who had registered the same night. So she can't remember shit from there, basically, is what they figured out.

She's looking at a man and thinking she recognizes him as somebody else. And she's obviously wrong. Yes. And eyewitness ID of strangers is worth nothing. It's worth spit it's you don't recognize you think you recognize strangers because your brain puts pictures in your head but we're human beings our brains don't work like that you don't recognize strangers i want to just don't i want to see a picture of michael and a picture of the person she mistook him for to see if they're anywhere

how close they are i'd love to see that the fucked up part is miller and michael their pictures you could if i said this is miller this is michael mixed them up and then showed them to you the other way you wouldn't notice they look so similar just like kind of 85 cut midwestern young guys from 85 with the totally uh so yeah that that ended up there with uh she didn't remember all of that which i think is is funny uh an ex-girlfriend this is another defense witness this is an ex-girlfriend of michael kinney she dated him in the summer of 84 so right after he graduated high school they talked of marrying even you know high school love she said that michael was dissatisfied with his job and his relationship

with his mother and talked of going to canada okay you know right after you graduate high school that summer no kid ever talks about i should just go to fucking i just want to go to like nepal for like six months you know what i mean find me in costa rica yeah that's like pete kids say that after you have this weird surge of freedom like i could just go anywhere right i could just do whatever i want like because i'm an adult now and i have no like school i could just do anything so i think i will then you don't or some of those guys do do that and that's all they ever end up doing is just being nomads wandering the planet no shit weirdos so she said he was super dissatisfied and talked of going to

canada that's what he talked about running away to canada he she said i was wondering dissatisfied and talked of going to Canada. That's what he talked about, running away to Canada. She said, I was wondering how we'd get the money to go. She inserted herself in there, how we'd get the money to go. Did he ask you, sweetheart? I don't think he said we can go. I think he said I could go. Yeah, I don't think he said me and you, Jody, are running away. I think he said I could leave.

She said he said his grandparents left him money in a trust. And she said that she also said that Kenny could sign his mother's name to get access to the money. He was on his mother's account. He could take money in and out whenever he wanted to. So there is no lack of money in this guy's life. He has money in a million different places. So she said that she asked him if a million different places. So she said that she asked him if he was in trouble

and he said no. Getting restless, that's all, as kids do. So Michael Kinney's mom, Sandra, she testified that her son had access to her many bank accounts and had one of his own. At the time of his disappearance, he had about

$2,700 in his personal checking account and however much more he needed from her bank accounts and had one of his own at the time of his disappearance. He had about $2,700 in his personal checking account and however much more he needed from her bank accounts. And it was fine. She said her son had access to her accounts because he was named executor of her estate in her will already. So he's already got all that shit. So they said that, um,

the defense though says, no, he was in serious trouble and he's trying to get 200 grand from his mom. So they bring, though, says, no, he was in serious trouble and he's trying to get 200 grand from his mom. So they bring Sandra McNeil also said that her and her son had a good relationship. She said her son would have told her if he was in any kind of trouble, which probably not. But that's fine. And when asked about her reaction to the ransom note, she said, I was terrified. I just wanted Mike back.

Well, no shit. Yeah. Some note, she said, I was terrified. I just wanted Mike back. Well, no shit. Yeah. So Kelly Mewing, Michael Kinney's girlfriend, she testified that Michael was not in any kind of trouble, nor did he need any kind of money. He mentioned nothing. He wasn't under any pressure or stress. She said that Michael had a good relationship with his mother. And if he needed money, he would have just asked his mother for it and she would have given it to him. So that would have solved the problem. He didn't need to extort anything. She said Michael did smoke marijuana on an almost daily basis, but wasn't into the drug scene. She said one time or a couple of times he bought an ounce of marijuana and then he would take a quarter and sell a quarter to each like three of his friends and now he's for no profit though. Just they'd split. They just split an ounce so they didn't got a cheaper price together that's everybody does that but she said he didn't

deal drugs or ever buy any larger quantities than an ounce that she knew of so that's all that's all it is she said that he tried speed uh but he didn't get into it that was back in high school when i had like some party shit but she said the year and a half before his death the only kind of speed stuff he'd ever use was over the counter caffeine pills if he had to stay up for a test or something for school. So that was that. So one of the defense witnesses said that she saw Kenny. This is a they they find a young lady, Joelle Lean, who's 19. She says she saw Kenny in 1984, late 1984. She says she saw Kenny in 1984, late 1984.

So six months later at a downtown bar and that he told her he was getting into big business and would be making a lot of money. So not only is he hanging out in Aberdeen, but he's also just touting future plans to people. She said the first thing that, oh, this was in late 84. So this is before he was killed before. Yeah. Yeah. She said the first thing that came to my mind was that he was stealing things or something. And then he told me that he wasn't,

I asked him if it was drugs or anything. And he told me that I was too innocent to know. So he also could have been fucking around at a bar. By the way, I love how all these people are 19 and they're hanging out at downtown bars. By the way, I told you I'd have to kill you. That's a common thing. Yeah. At a bar. By the way, I love how all these people are 19 and they're hanging out at downtown bars, by the way. If I told you I'd have to kill you, that's a common thing. Yeah.

And he's trying to sound cool for a 19-year-old chick that he probably might be trying to bang. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe you get your pants off. That's all. He was in between relationships at that point. Another defense witness is Todd's sister, Michelle. She said that on May 8th, the night that Kenny disappeared, she called her parents home to make sure everyone was home.

Why do you call it night? Just want to make sure everybody's in. All right. Mom, dad, you guys home. OK, we were asleep. You fucking dick. Thanks a lot. She said that based on her mother's answer, she was satisfied everyone was home, including Todd, which means that she called after 11 30 p.m which is doesn't sound

a terrible time to call a house it's a terrible time to call a house phone it's a ring through the whole fucking house everybody one in every room jesus christ um and also then the uh the cross-examination the attorney general comes out and talks to the sister and says, you made no reference to that phone call during your grand jury testimony. You didn't say that when you were asked directly. You didn't say that. Now you've made a phone call. And she was like, um, um, um, didn't have much of an answer there. They also had the fiber experts talking about the same fibers from the trunk were on the

body. They also have Paula. That's Miller's little sister. She said she was with Miller when she was when they were arrested. Obviously, she said her brother told her during the trip they were going to Alexandria to sell a horse. Paula said her brother said nothing during the trip about being in trouble or being threatened or anything like that. So Todd's family. trouble or being threatened or anything like that.

So Todd's family, now they find out, and there's a big thing about Todd's family, and as Father Martin was in severe financial difficulty, he had written checks totaling $23,420.10, which were returned for insufficient funds in the first half of 1985. Todd was aware of his father's financial troubles and had discussed horse sales with his father, saying, Why would he know that? Exactly. So they said that Miller's father was obviously he was trying to help his father and maybe this was the deal. They said that his father was $8,327 behind on his payments to the federal land bank and bank officials were threatening to accelerate the $58,748 loan.

Miller told family and friends he was planning to sell a horse so he could explain coming into the money is what he told people. Martin Miller said he and his son were close, but Todd was not a partner in the family horse business and had no knowledge about money owed. Then the prosecution on cross-examination reads him back his own grand jury testimony where he said that his son was well aware of his financial problems.

They said, according to the transcript, when asked that, he said, he said quote yes we very seldom hit anything from each other so that's a lot different i probably wander around the house swearing about the fucking goddamn banks yeah what's wrong dad oh i don't know all of our lands about to be taken from us probably would come up at some point the goddamn bank wants its money so at that point they said well how did todd feel about this since we so at that point they said well how did todd feel about this since we know that he knew about it now how did todd feel about it and martin said i'm sure it did bother him but not enough to go out and do what you guys are accusing him of

so yeah i lied but whatever so it's it's it's tough uh this whole thing i mean you put the when you put the guy's dad on and be and gotta grill him about his finances it's not his dad's fucking fault unless his dad said, yeah, go kidnap a guy and kill him and get money. It probably feels pretty fucking embarrassing for that old man to have to tell everybody about how far behind in his bills are. Proud old rancher. Yeah. Probably fucking pissed about that shit. So they bring up all this stuff. The defense is trying to raise all of these

different different uh different things here they also had discussed martin had discussed selling horses with his son he said todd had the authority to sell horses because a bottom price had been established on each each horse don't take less than this so he said he could sell him based on that but his son had never sold any horses. So he said that Martin Miller said his son told him a week or two before May 14th that he planned to sell a horse to his boxing coach in Minnesota. The horse had a bottom price of $25,000, but Todd said Todd never said how much he was going to get for the horse. There you go. So also they had come on March 1st, 1985. The sheriff's the county sheriffs had come to the Miller home to seize property on a fourteen hundred seventy dollar execution from Midwest credits. They're coming to see shit. They picked up a microwave oven and a gas grill and asked Todd if there was any other valuable property. And Todd had said he had some guns that could be taken. Okay. So yeah, there was the tire iron that they ended up finding later.

Like I said, um, evidence stuff, the clothes as well. Um, this is crazy. The clothes that Mark Kinney had been wearing when he disappeared and when he was found dead shirt,

tennis shoes, they were left on the roof of a lab complex in rapid city for a month what a month after the autopsy on the roof on the roof they said on the fucking roof the doctor said he put the clothes on the roof to dry to put them in the sun to dry went down and forgot about them for a month they got wet and dry again several times dry when who knows bird shit completely lost for any forensic activity basically it's asshole um so that's not terrific and in closing here the uh the prosecution said quote just as the blood of michael kinney is the trunk of that car, it's on the defendant's hands. It's in his car. It might as well be on his hands today. So there you go. The defense closing

is a little bit different. They say that the state's explanation of a motive is ridiculous and they haven't proven their case. They said that, look at this. We don't even know if the crime was actually committed in Brown County. If it wasn't, if you find, it doesn't even matter if you think my client murdered him. If you find that it didn't happen in Brown County, you have to find him not guilty because that's part of the fucking thing. He has to have done it here. There's a jurisdiction here, right.

So they said, has that been proven to you beyond a reasonable doubt? Are you firmly convinced that Michael Kinney was killed in Brown County, South Dakota? You know you're in trouble when you're saying, rather than, are you convinced that this guy killed this guy? You're going, are you convinced that he was even killed in this county? We don't know, right? Let's just say it's not good. Yeah. For me, my biggest hole is he picked up the money under duress, thinking that he was in danger, put it in the trunk of his car.

And he's so afraid of these people, he took his cut out of that suitcase and put it in his wallet without counting all. You know what I mean? Not knowing that it's not all there. When he shows up to the very bad man who wants to behead his toddler oh my god and that thing is 10 000 and some change short oh that baby's going away he's gonna be playing ski ball at that kid's head come on that's the biggest hole for me until yeah that's a good fucking point jesus christ so then they said this is the defense you have to be convinced that the suit of clothes the state is trying to put on Todd fits because you don't get a refund.

And Todd will be stuck with the suit of clothes you put on him for the rest of his life. Is this guy a tailor locally and trying to sell in our spring sale? I put myself through college working at men's warehouse. It's just, don't worry about it, okay? That's the fucking metaphors I have. Yeah, that's what I have. That's a lot of suit stuff. I'm going to get into lapels if we do anything more.

Trust me. Let's just stop here. Wait till I talk about how your heels stick to those thin socks. So he finished his argument. He threw his yellow-lined legal you know his yellow lined legal pad down on the defense table and he walked around and he said that uh this is fucking amazing he rests his hands on miller's shoulders like this is my guy and he looks at the jurors long pause and he said it's my turn to turn him over to you

shepherd this young boy like he's 12 like you just walked him down the aisle yeah i turn him over to you i do he pushes him toward the jury this trial lasted over uh almost a month yeah over three and a half weeks approximately 28 2,800 pages of trial transcript, 193 trial exhibits, numerous transcripts of motion hearings, 220 pages of briefings, and three supplemental briefs. And it was more than four weeks long, the trial. So the prosecutor said, anytime I have to get a haircut between the start and finish, it's a long trial. Yeah. Yeah.

So anytime I have to wear the same hair twice or the same tie twice, it's a long trial. Yeah. I got it real shaggy in this trial. That's a lot. So here comes a deliberation. Nine women, three men on the jury. They're, by the way, sequestered at a Sheraton Inn in Aberdeen. When they are dumped in at the end of the night, it is one to a room with no TV or phone allowed.

This is 1985. No outside, no newspaper, no nothing. They put you in a room in the Sheraton and then you sit in a room. Or you go to sleep. I'm sure they have approved reading materials they can give you, like books, I'm sure. Reader's Digest. Yeah, it doesn't matter if you read The Tales of Wyatt Earp or some shit. That's not going to matter in this case, but who knows.

So they deliberated throughout the afternoon. They took a dinner break. They deliberated some more. That goes into the next day. The next day, 4.15, they send a note to the judge. They asked for markers of various colors, masking tape, and an easel and paper. We're playing Pictionary. Guys, we're all so bored from this hotel room.

We've whipped up our own Pictionary, and we've broken down into teams, and me and my guy, we think we can win, so it might be another night. Six teams of two, we could run a whole fucking tournament through here. Hey, when you're done getting that shit, grab a twister mat, too, if you would. Thank you. We want to get to know each other a little better. An easel. Hey, when you're done getting that shit, grab a twister mat, too, if you would. Thank you. We want to get to know each other a little better. An easel.

Masking tape, markers of various colors. Wow. Awesome. They also wanted a dictionary, a tape recorder. A dictionary? A tape recorder and tape number 94, which is the tape conversation between Todd Miller and Kenny's mother with the ransom demand here. So they did all that. They directed the jurors be given all the items except for the tape recorder, the tape, and the dictionary. I don't know why they're not allowed to have a dictionary.

They must not know what we're talking about. I need them to not know words. Keep them in the dark. Wow. The jurors, they do have a written transcript of the conversation. They go into Friday, third day of deliberations on that. They deliberations go on through that day. The next day they come in. Jesus Christ, they have. It's it's insane. They deliberate. They deliberate. They go into Saturday. They jurors ask for a clarification on a point of law. They ask whether a person who's being carried away as during a kidnapping had to be alive for it to be a kidnapping. If you're carrying away a corpse, is that kidnapping or is that just moving a body? You know what I mean? Corpse, what is that? They passed this note to the bailiffs who delivered it to the judge

and the judge said when it talks about carrying away or detaining a person, does that person have to be alive or can that person be deceased? Please clarify for us. And the judge said the term person as used in instruction 19 means a person who is alive. So a body would be they would put it there in the law. So the jurors here, they retired Sunday night without reaching a verdict. So they're still going. They deliberated from 930 a.m. to 630 p.m. on Sunday, stopping only for lunch. Fucking insane. of murder if a person is killed during the perpetration or attempted perpetration of a kidnapping if the person aided abetted or advised in the planning of the committing of the kidnapping only in other words the person did not aid a better advise in the planning or committing of

a murder so let's say todd was just involved in the kidnapping and the extortion plot and then everything else was not him is it still like you're in a convenience store and somebody shoots the clerk and we're all guilty like what what's the how does that work also these beds here are much more comfortable than my house bed so take your time also i hate my spouse and my kids so i'm gonna by the way uh do you have Simon? Because we'd really like to... I know that's not a current event. We really enjoy that one.

And Battleship is really popular amongst jurors 3, 4, and 8. They won't let us play life because there's cars. You can put people in the trunk of your car. They won't let us do that. Is a light bright out of the question? Jesus fucking Christ. Is a light bright out of the question. Jesus fucking Christ.

So David Kinney, who's home from the military, who is Michael's brother, they're waiting for the deliberations. He said, there's nothing that takes a person's mind off something like this because we've been going through this for over a year. He said, it's crazy. He said, I work outside to keep myself busy and my mom's always working outside. They're just trying to do that. He's stationed at Ellsworth Air Force Base. Todd Miller's father tells the press, my son didn't do it. He said, I don't know what the verdict will be, but he said, we know our son is innocent, but what the jury will come up with, we can't know that.

It's a lot of stress just waiting. You know, it gets everybody after a while. Okay? Six days of deliberations. Holy shit. No TV, no phone. Jurors passed the bailiff a note at 5.20 p.m., which is weird,

the note saying they have reached their verdict. Oh, okay. Not another question. Which is unexpected because just before that, the jurors had spoken with bailiffs about what pizza they were going to have delivered for their evening meal. And then then they they skipped the pizza, decided they have a verdict. Let's just eat at home tonight. Fuck it.

You know, pizza seems a little disrespectful. I'd like mushrooms, olives, pepperoni and sausage, please. In honor of our maybe some some green pepper just a real special a real special one you know what i mean so the uh the jury comes back in and they find todd miller what do you think's gonna happen here jimmy jesus i'm so nervous i need him guilty it's kidnapping possession of ransom money forgery first degree murder it's all on the table. There's too much.

I don't think I don't. And they had too many questions. They took too long. Their Pictionary Tournament was a fucking real doozy. I think he's not guilty, James. I think he's only going to jail for 10 years. Now, let's see here. They find him guilty of kidnapping, possession of ransom money, forgery, and first-degree murder. Wow, they got him.

They got him, yeah. Right away, the defense counsel says they'll appeal. He says, there's no doubt in my mind the jury made a mistake. You know, no doubt at all. They know it. The Brown County Sheriff said Miller was being watched closely in the jail to prevent him from hanging himself. Yeah. Because that's a problem they have there.

He said, this is quite a shock to the family. He's facing quite a sentence. We have no information that he's suicidal. We do this for about 48 hours with all people who receive a sentence to the South Dakota Penitentiary. He says that, you know, the kid can't be happy about the verdict. He said, you can't be overjoyed about sending a 21-year-old kid to prison for life. Well, if he did what they said he did, he's a fucking monster.

It's pretty easy, yeah. That's very calculated and dangerous if that person did that. So Jack Kinney, Michael's father and a current private investigator at that time, said that parts of the trial were very upsetting. He said Mike was pretty much a normal average boy who's really been slandered by the way the defense in this case has talked about him. Some of the things they said about him are not true. They had to make it sound like he was like a drug underworld kingpin or something. He's just a regular dude who smokes weed on a horse ranch. Right.

So his turkeys away. Yeah. His friend Barry said I'm happy about the guilty verdicts quote, I think there could have been more justice done. I thought he was guilty of every charge. But the problem was the things that he wasn't because he was charged with nine things and found guilty of four. But the other things were alternatives to the things they found them guilty of. So you can't find them guilty of every all nine. It's impossible.

So Miller sentencing comes around. Do you have anything to say for yourself? He says, nope, I'm good. That's not the one. That ain't the one. I want to try it four more times. How about that? So his lawyer, though, says this.

His lawyer says, quote, law enforcement and a number of people in this community call todd a murderer they're also called a jury number of people like 12 of them who all sat in that fucking box who heard all the evidence who heard all the evidence and whose job it is to judge right some of the people in this number i can tell you at least 12 i know that much and probably kinney's parents and family as well there's a few yeah add that in the prosecutor you know a lot i believe the jury in this case decided their convictions based on aiding and abetting in a murder i believe there's a distinction to be made there, your honor, and not until the principal confesses will we humans know the ultimate truth. Our maker and redeemer will be the ultimate judge.

Well, you're taking it well out of the hands of the court of appeals, I think. We found one of the Lutherans, James. I think so. Hardcore. Todd knows that. Todd accepts that. Todd has accepted his present fate on a human level. Todd has hope in his future. He would like to pass that hope on to those concerned.

Okay. The judge, on the other hand, has less hope for him. The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison for first degree murder. May fuck off life in prison for first degree murder. Yeah. He also imposes for the term for kidnapping life again. Two lives now. Double life term. 15 years for possession of ransom money and five years for forgery.

And those are going to be running consecutively as well. So two life sentences plus 20 is what he just got. He's in a lot of deep shit. The state did not seek the death penalty on this one. And Sandra McNeil, Kenny's mom, said nothing's going to bring Mike back. I guess I'm satisfied. What are you going to do? Who cares at that point? When you have a family member murdered, it's one of the things you go is like, well, I don't care what they do with this guy at this point.

It's not going to help me any. So appeal here. They appeal this and they went on the forgery charge somehow that they couldn't prove it was him that forged it because the witnesses weren't good enough. So they lose the murder appeal, though, case that doesn't that doesn't work. He doesn't get out on that. 1993, though, his lawyer is trying to get him a new trial. And he actually is getting an appeal here and gets his murder charge thrown out. So he gets it thrown out.

They're going to give him a retrial. It's based on very ticky-tack legal shit. So I'm not going to get into it at this point because we don't have the time. There's a huge crazy thing coming up here. Don't worry. This doesn't stay unresolved. Trust me. So they're going to keep him in jail, though.

He was trying to get out of jail on bail during this time, and they said, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're back in there. So, 94, they have a retrial. Pretty much the same evidence as the first time. And same fucking result. Still guilty. Still life in prison. Fuck off, asshole.

So, there's that. Now, 1999 comes around. Todd Miller and another idiot in jail who is serving, what is he serving? I believe a life sentence. Another moron they hatch a plot to kidnap the governor's family members what the fuck ask for a ransom that would include pardons five hundred dollars each and two new driver's licenses that ought to do it that should do it why don't you put in driver's licenses in there?

We really want to be legit, guys. Seriously. And like a gift certificate to Ikea wouldn't kill you either. Like get us back on our feet. I don't even have a futon, bro. Help me. $500. $500.

If you're going to do that, go for broke. Yeah, go for more. The inmates were somehow able to route $1,500 in prison. I don't know where to a man outside the prison whom they hope would arrange the kidnapping and swap the hostages for the ransom. He was to be paid $50,000 by the inmates upon the release. But they said, quote, they probably would have killed him rather than pay. All right. They're not going to pay him 50 grand. They only getting 500 each so there you go now a third party tipped

off the authorities to this conspiracy then worked with them as an informant i'm shocked that the guy wasn't a police officer no shit so they uh it's crazy so So they called they were these investigators were called in to do this. And one of the investigators said, you don't say no to the governor. If he wants you to look into something, you're on it now. So they did it. They the investigative law offices that this guy has. They're not he's not a cop. This Tobias guy that's investigating this specializes in electronic surveillance investigations and security.

And he said, we worked on the case for five months and have more than 200 hours in the case oh boy so um they said the uh the first word of the possible kidnapping plot surfaced in july 1998 here the superintendent of the state highway patrol said i'm assuming it was either his children or his grandchildren or his wife they were going to kidnap so So months later, after monitoring the inmates' phone call and mail, the prison security team confirmed earlier suspicions on the plot, and the one guy, the investigator, said, prisoners need to understand that if they hatch a plot in prison, they're going to get caught. When the governor called, he knew immediately that we had something bad.

We have handled complex investigations for him before. and they're going to get caught. When the governor called, he knew immediately that we had something bad. We have handled complex investigations for him before. He said that they told him, I want you guys to organize the investigation. They said a battery of agencies, including the FBI, DCI, Highway Patrol, Department of Corrections, and U.S. Attorney's Offices were all involved in this investigation. They said initially we're looking at five suspects, but narrowed it to Miller and Davi is the other guy. The others, they said, had a minimal involvement, basically transmitting messages that they might not have known what they even were. They said they amassed tons of physical evidence, including letter, a letter written by Miller diagramming how to construct a cage to hold the governor's family members. Holy God.

A fucking diagram of how to make a human cage. And they're like, yeah, governor's wife with an arrow pointing goes in there. Here's the smallest child. They go in there. It'll hold three persons. Whoa. The letter described the materials to be used in the cage's constructions and where the supplies could be purchased at the cheapest prices. He's like Lowe's is having a sale right now.

Make sure to go there. Fascinating. Another letter retrieved by investigators included a sought draft of a ransom demand. It was a ransom demand to be read over the phone once the kidnapping had occurred. Miller attempted to struggle, smuggle the letter out in a package from the phone once the kidnapping had occurred. Miller attempted to struggle, a smuggle, a letter out in a package from the prison's unit where he worked. The one investigator said the guys weren't too dumb. We had our anxious moments while we were waiting to spring our string.

So numerous, all the, there was all these rumors here saying that they arranged a second kidnapping team for insurance. They had two kidnapping teams that said this gave second kidnapping team for insurance. They had two kidnapping teams that said, this gave us real pause for concern. Our paranoia was that we missed somebody either inside or out. So one of his prison jobs, Miller, was to deliver the Argus Leader,

which is a newspaper that I've used for several things here, throughout the prison. Miller arranged for a subscription under a phony inmate name. Cancellation of the subscription was to be a signal between the conspirators that the plan was proceeding. OK, though no kidnapping attempt was ever carried out. None of the governor's family was hurt or in danger. Officials knew that Miller and Davi were capable of doing it. They were trying to actually do this.

So they sprang the trap on him. Miller and Davi were issued civilian clothes and taken separately from the prison to the Sioux Falls office here. State troopers were under orders to shoot the prisoners if they attempted to escape en route. Holy shit. At the office, the investigator told the inmates were here as representatives of the governor to release the to negotiate the release of the hostages. Yeah. They pretended like it had actually went through, that it happened.

Right. He said, we've got lies, lives at risk. At first Miller denies all knowledge of the kidnapping plot. Uh, but he was told by the investigator, if you don't know what's going on,

we can't let you out. In other words, you're not, not out of jail, out of this office. He gave him like Bronx tale. Now you just can't leave you out in other words you're not not out of jail out of this office right he gave him like bronx tale now you just can't leave type of thing so the investigator said quote miller was peeing his pants i told him if anything happens to the governor's family he'll turn the entire state upside down like you have shaken the wrong tree motherfucker you've really done it now you

have fucked up bad um so they said miller he then asked miller what the officials had to do to ensure the safe release of their of the hostages so miller said if i were you i'd comply with their demands yeah what are the demands the investigator the investigator asked how much time they had and miller said sir i don I don't know, but I think about a day. So once they convinced Miller and Dobby their kidnapping had actually occurred, they said, quote, I told them that if this thing turned bad, their guy was liable to kill the hostages. They knew that instead of life in prison, they'd be looking at the death penalty now. Yeah, right. Both of them confessed.

Both of them broke down down confessed to their roles miller even confessed fully to the michael kinney murder everything he did he detailed exactly how he did it when he did it fucking spilled it god i wish i was there he was so scared he not only told about that he told he was like fucking. And then and then this happened. And then my sister, blah, blah, blah, blah. He was like chunk from Goonies, like telling everything bad that he's ever done. Piss running down his leg. Piss running down his leg.

Holy shit, I'm fucked. So finally, he confessed to all of that, which up until now he had maintained his innocence even to everybody. The investigator then told them, quote, we've got good news and bad news. The good news is this is great. Good news. I hope people listen to this whole episode because if they miss this, it's really a. The good news is that you're leaving the office. So you've you've done that.

Bad news is you're going to Joliet. Yeah. yeah hey tell him joliet is a maximum security facility yeah feared among inmates for its shitty conditions here that's where uh that's where the dude the the the co-ed guy was at the the nurse's killer what's his yes exactly uh richard speck that's it the bird and the fan guy no shit man so the investigator said that uh said that they were unaware of the kidnapping plot. Everybody was unaware of it until the story broke in the media. That was partly an order from the governor who said, you will not talk about this because it involves my family. I don't want this in the press until it's over with. So they said there's no plans to charge them with attempted kidnapping.

So they said there's no plans to charge them with attempted kidnapping. They said the decision to pursue charges is up to federal prosecutors, and the U.S. prosecutor said he's aware, but he's going to defer the decision to prosecute to the governor, who's the victim. And the state said they're going to do it to there. They basically said it's not necessary. The governor's press secretary said the prosecution's unnecessary. It's just going to waste tax dollars since davi and miller are serving life sentences and their appeals are over so

who gives a shit he said what would it accomplish these two are going to be miserable every day every hour for the rest of their lives and really regret this choice that's they're really fucking dumb did we mention how dumb they are? We could have been in the other prison that we just didn't like this one. We fucking hate. We fucking really do. The governor said, quote, you're dealing with scumbags who had already murdered people. Yeah.

So it was very important to get it right. And they they they thought all these letters were leaving the prison and none of them were they were just going right to the investigators the whole time for months that was amazing yep scott dobby was the other guy he was uh in prison for murder too i believe or something horrible that was in there forever so uh yeah you're dealing with scumbags who murdered people so uh they are still in prison these two idiots idiots, obviously, and all of that thing. 2007, the only thing I could find about Miller and his family here, in 2007, his son Jesse apparently graduated from Air Force school there. He's in the Air Force. Yeah, I guess he could.

Military graduation. The brand new baby. Yeah, the brand new baby. Wow. Military graduation. The brand new baby. Yeah, the brand new baby. He's an Air Force airman. First class completed the apprentice course at Kessler Air Force Base. The course is designed to train the student to observe and record weather elements using mechanical and electronic meteorological equipment and instruments. meteorological meteorological jesus that's hard to say equipment and instruments the training includes elementary meteorology weather forecasting observing and recording of weather phenomena so he's a air force weather spotter basically there you go miller is the son of todd m miller of del

rapids is there a prison there yeah and cindy k tier who she must be remarried because that's not her maiden name or fucking his name of Sioux Falls. So there we go. That everybody is is Aberdeen, South Dakota. And one fucking hell of a weird murder story. If I've ever heard one, it's good. They got the right guy. That was fucking spotty ass evidence, though. That really was. I was happy to hear he confessed. they got the right guy that was yeah fucking spotty ass evidence though that really was that's

i was happy to hear he confessed he just started spilling his guts about everything he ever did wrong but for me really truly that money uh that money tree and and the train that he was you don't take money from people that are threatening to kill your family you don't you don't you wouldn't generally don't you would never do that so he. That's why he had five bad stories. Right. Yeah. After story number three, he's done whatever has happened. Like, you don't tell three lies if you're innocent. You've got the joker.

You've got it. You've got it. So if you like that, you like our show, tell the world about it. Get on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. It really does help the show a lot, whether it's Audible or whatever. There's tons of different things there. It helps drive us up charts, so please do that if you haven't done it yet. Also, you definitely want to follow us on social media

because that's when you find out about the ticket drop, which we're going to talk about in a second. Tickets are coming out, baby. 2023 Small Town Murder Tour is on. Oh, boy. We are excited. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Your tickets will be on sale.

It's the week after Thanksgiving. It's the next week. I believe it's maybe December 1st, something like that. Don't quote me on it. Instead, head over to our social media, which we'll tell you about it. We're at murdersmall on Twitter, at smalltownpod on Facebook, at smalltownmurder on Instagram. Check all that. Everything, it'll be there.

They are coming out. We can't wait. Here are the dates right now. We'll repeat them again in case you fast forward through the top of the show, which some people do. February 10th, 2023, Cleveland, Ohio at the Agora, St. Louis on February 11th at the Pageant, much nicer venue than we were at last time we were there.

March 23rd and 24th, we are in Seattle for two shows at the Neptune. And then Saturday night, March 25th, we're in Portland, Oregon with two shows in one night that night. So four shows that weekend for us. It's going to be a fun one. May 5th, we're in Detroit at the Masonic, whatever that is. It looked nice from the pictures. May 6, 2023, we're in Pittsburgh, back at the Carnegie Music Hall in Munhill there, or whatever that is. Munhall.

July 15th, we're in San Diego at the Observatory. July 28th, Salt Lake City, Utah at the Depot. July 29th, Denver at the Newman Center. Friday, August 11th, Minneapolis at the Pantages, and Saturday, August 12th, our biggest venue of the year, Chicago, the Auditorium Theater. This place looks beautiful. It looks like you have the world's most beautiful symphony performance there. It's crazy. Let's muck this place up with dick jokes and murder.

Let's do it, guys. Come on. Let's fill this this place up with dick jokes and murder. Let's do it, guys. Come on. Let's fill this bad boy up. And then September 8th, we're in Atlanta at the Tabernacle. September 9th, we are in Charlotte at the Night. Friday, October 6th, in Philly at the Fillmore.

Again, back there. And then October 7th, we are in Washington, D.C. at the Howard. Dates still coming for this. Don't worry. There's a few missing there that are going to be there. They're just negotiating final dates and and shit like that. Boston New York Milwaukee

and Phoenix. We know we're happening. Yeah, somebody tase me hit me with a taser. I'm going to fuck that chimney. So that's definitely do that. Follow us on social media. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all the bonus stuff, everything, whole back catalog.

Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get shit. I don't know. There's like 150 episodes of bonus shit to binge. Tons of stuff. New episodes every other week. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder. This week, Crime and Sports, weird old newspaper shit that's really funny and you'll enjoy. Trust us. Nothing to do with sports. Small Town Murder. Oh, it crime and sports. Weird old newspaper shit that's really funny and you'll enjoy. Trust us.

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Jimmy, hit me with those names right now, but don't leave me in an ice house abandoned and mummified. Please, Jimmy, hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Diane Ringel, Casey Shatters, Marilyn Branfast. James, that's your new Italian grandma, if you didn't know that. She makes a wonderful sauce, and she swears and stuff. So she's wonderful. Well, that's cool. Apple knife, I hope. Packing a knife. I imagine she is. And also Randy Polanich.

Polanich? Polanich. Well, thank you. Polanic. Thank you all so much for everything you do. Truly. Absolutely. It means the world to us. Other producers this week are Buster Hyman, Reverend... Yeah. You son of a bitch, Gary. You said that. Buster Hyman reverend yeah you son of a bitch gary you said that i didn't get it until right when i read it really that's amazing reverend seymour

perlmutter i don't know what that one means but i'm sure it's something gross what's a perlmutter sure it has to do with jizz or some jizz related subject all right steve gains of leonard skinner who would have been the next clapton if not for a plane crash i'm told uh steve chanel somebody tase me alexis earlbeck my pee pants ex-girlfriend uh janice hill kieran laidlaw in south africa alissa and brett randy nope that's right rachelley. I love you. Adam Wyatt, Van Sharpenseel, Lene Morgan, Madison Smoot, Tammy Valachi,

Philip with no last name, Helen Murphy, St. Louis Saint, I suppose, STL, Kaylin Bond, Haley Kosano, Mandy Salas, Shell Loro Weedy, Sarah Holtz, Rain Ramsire, Liz Latterhose, Susie with no last name, Jeremy Fuseli, Jackson McMullen, Kelly Waters, Mike Shadina, Peyton French, Andres And Andres. Andres. Lasco. Six. Salazar. Bree would know last name.

Moan Spot. Samantha would know last name. Heather Wehab Mouch. Don't know. No. Greg Macri. Tanya Harden. Not Harding.

Ashley Brenham. Rebecca Benai. Arnold Thompson. J.S. Cody Board. Matthew Johns. Martin Goyla, Rebecca M., Credius, Noah Borer, Zach Valdez, Scott with no last name, Haley Collins, the one and only Jody Lynn, Nathan Mezzo, Caleb Breitenbach,

Gary White, Larissa Chidoche, Scary Malice, Jada Larson, Charlie Sims, Patricia Callahan, Jonathan Barajas, Deborah Chamness, Hillary F., Josh, Josh AL. Billy Duncan, William Sutton, Zach with no last name, Allie Parker, Patrick D., oh, Calliel Nichols, Josh A.L., Sky Olsicinski, Michaela Means, Elizabeth Bell, Rizal Lee, Mark Quinn Baker, Allison Kosar, oh, Bernie's daughter, Christy Bruggen, Sarah Taylor, Aaron Ailes, Sarah Ramirez, Kristen Fowler, Gabrielle Kalvisbert, Amanda S., Rachel Fowler, Ryan Simpson, Ashley Davis, Davis, Ali, Ali, Crystal Sims, Jeff Goss, maybe Michael Gebert, Chance Smith, Rebecca with no last name, Amber Salas, Becky Thompson, Michelle McKenzie, Lindsey Dinkla, Vicky Schluenberger, Jim Behrens, Roll Tide, damn it,

Elaine Shaben, Jeffrey Halk, Caden Stubblefield, Lindsay Miller, Jennifer Moffitt, hey, Nicole Cooper, Matt Spruill, Mary Cluess, Tyler Perry, probably not. Linda, that would be amazing. He's got five to spare. I would lose it. He's got five bucks to spare. Why would I lose it?

I've never seen one of those movies. It's just because I know his name. Not a Tyler Perry fan, but the fact that, not anything against him. Just be amazing. Yeah. Linda Salvatore, Kathy Nordstrom, Craig Hoffman, Kayla Stewart, Kay Lynn Stewart, Andrea Fowler, Ricardo Vander Nat, David David Dahl, Ryan Callison, Drayton Gagliano, Heather Price, Leslie Ruby, Entity Ginja, Rhonda Williams, Nick Nagorny, Joey Duffield, Duffield, Cassandra Majlika, Jackie Kirby, Aida Blackuado, Michelle Smith, Kevin Rosos, Jesse Giamattino, Dan Ujair, Laurel Kalinchik, Connie Hanson, Tyler Doreen, William Brown, Eric Bruggen, Molly with no last name, Bobby Tory Lane, Christy with no last name. Janik Beck.

Amber Ramke. Kara with no last name. Dustin Frawley. Julia with no last name. Ted Espel. Total Capacity. Cooper Marion. Austin with no last name.

King Kunta. That feels weird. Zach with no last name. Adam Smith. Daniel Wyman. Danielle Wyman. Brian Crawford. Brittany Wade.

Joey Hoffman. Hayden Bork. Sonia Glennon. Erica Marling, Sue Crowley, Nikki Astine, Anstine, Matthew Paust, Andrea Perez, Courtney Parsons, nope, that's Parsons, Rick Thompson, Dark Energy, Brian Leslie, Gavin KF, Richard Hicks, Cammie DeLapp, Heroin Hawk of West Virginia Goldie Rose Bates Andrew Scalise Mark Grant, Carlito Herman, Colton with no last name, Jessica Black, Brittany Sulkowski, Amanda

McGee, Lulu Queenie Jamie DeAngelis Chris O'Shea, MJ Hepp Kara Cowling Christopher H, Lindsay Sheehan Fr Framham and the Jam Band. Have a happy Super Soft birthday, Kendra. Garrett Schnell, Maggie79, Florida Man Tactical, Kalina Lacey, Haley Clement, Graham Cunningham, Sophie Gorey. Sophie Gorey, yes.

Jacqueline Kohler, Kyle Rose, Rob Daniel, Melody Turnbrough, Sally Barnum, Lauren Nasreen, Cal Lohr, Dominique Ross, Matt Bowie, Connor Ramsey, Aaron Zafer, Nikki Mahaney, Austin Parker, M-S-W-Z, Jeff Routhbun, Melissa Muncy, Richard Collins, Caleb Filson. Yeah, I almost did. I apologize, Melissa. Angela Thompson, Tammy Van Loon, Caleb Filson. I said that. Stephanie Langewies. No way. Rar with no last name.

Michelle Moisel, Dakota Jones, Marla, Maria, Maria, Maria Chow, Stephanie Hankel, Brittany and Tyler Randall's Shannon Sproul. I think Lauren S. Scott Adams, Louise Marshall, Scott Martin, Jennifer Marie Wenner, Bill. Nope. Ben. Ben Minnick. My eyes are going blurry. Ride Clevenger.

Read. Right. Read. Read or ride Clevenger. Becky Riggs. Zach Sletto. Drew. Drew Brittner. read read or ride clevenger becky riggs zach sletto uh brett drew drew britner fucking what is that christopher gransberry my eyes sting rebecca day rep and all of our patrons thank you for making my eyes sting thank you everybody from the bottom of our hearts we

appreciate the fuck out of everything you do for us. Thank you so much. You want to follow us on social media. Very easy to do. Go to shut up and give me murder dot com. The links are there for everything. Dates, links, stuff. That's where you want to be.

Who that said, hell of an episode. Hell of a week. We'll see you for the Express this week. Of course. Can't wait to see your wonderful faces live at live shows. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

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