Small Town Murder - #338 - Attempting Immortality - Llanfair, Wales, United Kingdom

Episode Date: November 26, 2022

This week, in Llanfair, Wales, United Kingdom, the horrible discovery of local woman, with her heart wrapped in newspaper, and placed in a saucepan of blood, atop a silver platter, and several other strange arrangements of candlesticks, and fireplace pokers cause the whole area to freak out, and tell tales of strange vans, driving around. But what is discovered is much weirder. A local boy, with a bit of an unhealthy vampire fantasy, and an even unhealthier desire to drink human blood!!Along the way, we find out that Wales is very different from England, that even normal neighborhood lads can harbor strange obsessions, and that some places are apparently "perfect for vampires"!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay!

Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station, and oh boy, do we have a crazy one today.

Insane. We're going across the pond here to check out some British murder. And it really feels American. That's the thing that struck me so much is how much of a panhandle murder this is. It's wild. I'm like, wow, you have that, too. It made me almost feel better about our country. So it's good.

Before we get to that, very quickly, we need to head over to shut up and give me murder.com november the 28th tickets for the no the 2023 live show tour are coming out they are going to be on sale that day very quickly where we'll be february 10th cleveland february 11th st louis march 23rd 24th, Seattle March 25th, Portland, Oregon, not Maine, May 5th, Detroit, May 6th, Pittsburgh, July 15th, San Diego, July 28th, Salt Lake City, the 29th, Denver, August 11th, Minneapolis, August 12th, Chicago, September 8th, Atlanta, September 9th, Charlotte, October 6th, Philadelphia, October 7th, Washington, D.C. Philadelphia, October 7th, Washington, D.C. Date still to come for Phoenix, Milwaukee, Boston, New York. So those are coming. Hopefully they'll be up by the 28th when everything's for sale because that would really help a lot. So can't wait.

Do that. Also, head over to Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Get all your bonus material. Anybody $5 or above, you get everything. All the bonus episodes, the whole back catalog of bonus stuff. This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, which you'll have access to, you're going to get all the bad stuff that Ben Roethlisberger allegedly did. We're going to talk about that. Never mind football.

Let's talk about these terrible accusations that have been kind of hanging over his head like a cloud for the last 20 years. And then also for small-town murder, it's the prisoner dating game, everybody. It's back. Oh, we're excited for this. Obviously, I line up four bachelors and four bachelorettes for Jimmy here. The only thing they all have in common is they are currently incarcerated. And they have their own dating profiles. Jimmy's going to pick one based on just what they say in the profiles.

And then he's going to get to find out who they are and more importantly, what they did to end up where they are. And it's going to be a lot of fun. It's never a good choice. So much fun. The violent felon prisoner dating game. It's patreon.com slash crime and sports. That said,

I think it's time, Jimmy sit back. Let's clear the lungs. I think a little bit here, everybody. I don't care where you are if you're in your your kitchen scream scare the shit out of your dog if you're at the gym make everybody run for the hills i that's good exercise for them you're doing them a favor as

they sprint from you they need that exercise they need the cardio and let's shout shut up Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip. All right. It's a far trip, and I've never seen a fucking word like this before. Oh. We're going to the United Kingdom, but not England. We're going to Wales, okay?

That's its own country, huh? Yes. The UK is made of Scotland, England, Wales. Those are the three countries that make up the United Kingdom. And Ireland's not part of it? Ireland is their own country, I believe. Got it. Aren't they?

So, yeah. I don't know. This is Landfair is the name of the town, sort of. Landfair PG, they call it also. Oh. Landfair space, capital P, capital G. Now, the actual name of this town is Land Fair. I'm going to spell it for you.

L-L-A-N-F-A-I-R-P-W-L-L-G-W-Y-N-G-Y-L-L. That's the full name. Pollywogginly. Yeah. Land fair Pwiggle Gwineagle. Y L L that's the full name. Yeah. Landfare. Well, go winning goal. That's basically what we're talking about here. Um,

the full, there's a full name by the way. L L a N F a I R P W L L G Y R G W Y N G Y L L G O G E R Y C H W Y R N D R O B W L L L. N-G-Y-L-L-G-O-G-E-R-Y-C-H-W-Y-R-N-D-R-O-B-W-L-L-L-L-A-N-T-Y-S-I-L-I-O-G-O-G-O-G-O-C-H. They got four L's. Sounds like you put a toddler in front of a typewriter and they just banged on the keys and that's what came out. And they were like, what am I telling you? They got four L's. They got four L's. Four L's in a row.

It's the longest town name in Europe, or it was as somebody might have overtaken them now here. And it translates in English because Welsh, by the way, is its own language. Is it? Totally. Oh, absolutely. It translates to St. Mary's Church in the hollow of White Hazel near a rapid whirlpool

and the church of St. Tisilo near the Red Cave. Make sure you mention the cave in the whirlpool. That's too much. You have to pick what you want your main thing to be, and that's what you are. You can't just say everything in the town. And a nice street with houses and a good restaurant that has good pizza down on the left. No, you can't make that your whole name we're naming the town what do we name it i don't give a shit what you name it as

long as you mention the cave and the whirlpool man it's on the island of anglisee which is off the northwest coast of wales and uh that's where this town is, all the way over there. And, yeah, that's how that works. There's a bridge that goes to the Britannia Bridge that goes across the Strait of Bangor and ends up into, like, you know, regular England over there. The postal code is LL61, in case you're sending something there. You got letters, huh? It's about three hours and 15 minutes from south yorkshire which is our last british episode which was 168 and it was april 2020 so it's been a while here population here is 2907 the median household income is about 33 000 pounds per year which

is about 39 000 dollars and change it's a lot houses seem to be in about the four hundred like a four bedroom nice big a big house is about four hundred to six hundred thousand pounds in the two hundred thousand range uh with less bedrooms so pretty much kind of like america it seems like own things it costs a lot there. Yeah, it definitely does. History of this town, there's so much fucking history. It goes back centuries or hundreds of thousands of years. They're talking about there's been human activity and settlement in the area of the village since the Neolithic era, which is 4,000 to 2,000 BC. So for history, it's just a couple of brief things. It was briefly invaded and captured

by the romans at one point and then it was abandoned and uh it's been a lot of stuff has gone on here the cave in the whirlpool didn't keep the romans apparently they didn't the cave the whirlpool the whirlpool the church by the what the hell else the church by the rapid roaring meadows and the brooks i don't know what the fuck was there they speak obviously welsh is the is actually spoken there uh 57 of people in 2011 still spoke welsh in this area so that's interesting it's way different than english um i found one review of this town okay and it's uh four stars four to five uh during my stay of three months in wales i used to go through the village with the longest name in the world and he spells

it out often abbreviated it's in north wales on the island of anglisee the town is a bit in the middle of nowhere and has good communication but many tourists just go to say they've been the men on the train did not stop to ask for a ticket to Landfair. Must say the full name. Once in the village, there's little to see. We went to the town square to take a picture and sign and seal the passport. There was a music festival that made the wait more enjoyable before getting back on the train. Yeah.

So he says. He wanted the stamp. That's pretty much it. Yeah. So he says he wanted the stamp. That's pretty much it. Advise checking twice the train itineraries because in Wales are several to land fair and we're waiting at the station for about two hours during the confusion. Oh, shit.

Yeah. So things to do here. Not much. The Anglesey Sea Zoo, which is the best best of British marine life at Anglesey's leading all-weather family attraction. It's just got like octopus and lobsters and seahorses and eels and jellyfish. That's what they're saying. There's an aquarium. It's almost like a kid's aquarium. I have a couple reviews of that, though, since there wasn't a lot of information on it.

Here's one they loved it. Five stars from a month ago. Great to look around me and the kids enjoyed it. Here's one. They loved it. Five stars from a month ago. Great to look around or great to look around. Me and the kids enjoyed it. It was a bit cold inside as the doors were open. There's quite a bit to look at. We especially enjoyed the underwater camera. One was controlling. It was someone waving. It was good fun. The staff are friendly. Sounds very British. Yeah, it's good fun. We also had food in the cafe, which was very nice. Well, that's good that you had food in the cafe as opposed to we smoked crack in the cafe.

It would have been different. The next review is one star. Hated the fucking place from two months ago. This is very British. The sea zoo is grim. That's the first sentence. It's grim, mate. We paid 25 pounds for three of us. It was small and had a lack of fish. That's a great way to put it. The facilities were also grim. They smelt bad and were unclean. I think it's to match the theme of an abandoned ship it took five minutes to walk through the boring corridors of depressed fish the fish have like the fish have like

anything yeah do they have serotonin that gets released do they get happy those fish look thrilled they said the toilet stunk so that to match the the sunken abandoned ship. Apparently here. Depressed fish. It was a snide experience. Okay. The fish were snide. Well done, mate. This is great.

I'm really impressed with the poetic shit they got going on. The fish all looked bored and so did I. Okay. The best part was leaving never to return. I had a better time four months ago when i stubbed my toes taking the bins out and shattered my nail would not go again for it was so utterly tripe tripe wow now that we've set the tone of where we are let's talk about a murder shall we great let's do it let's do this uh to do this we're gonna have to talk about a young man here um he's 17 years old okay name is matthew hardman hard man one word not hardman matthew

1t which is excessively confusing when you're looking this guy up on the internet let me tell you something um very confusing so uh he's born and raised in Almwitch. Almwitch. There is no vowels except for the A. A-M-L-W-C-H. A-M-W-C-H. Amwitch. Amwitch.

Say that again. A-M-L-W-C-H. There needs to be at least one or two vowels in there for that to work but it's welsh language it's welsh no they didn't this is welsh they didn't they have they don't even want to fucking speak english there are you kidding i saw it's all out of there so they deleted the vowels i saw kitchen nightmares where gordon ramsay was in well in wales it was one of the british ones and the two people that was a husband and wife and all they did was fight and argue. And the guy, her name was Karen, and he would just go,

Karen! That's how he would yell for her. Like they would speak sort of half English and half Welsh. It was crazy. It was awesome. They skip the vowels when they talk. Karen! Karen!

That's how he'd scream from across the restaurant. And that's Karen. Gordon would go, Jesus Christ, calm down. Don't bellow for her. You know, he'd scream from across the restaurant. And that's Karen. Jesus Christ, calm down. Don't bellow for her. Go crazy. So either way here, that's where he's from. He's from this area, obviously. That's why we're here.

They moved to this particular town to Landfair in 1998 when he was 13 years old. So that's where we put him here. His mother, Julia, is a nurse, and his parents are divorced. That's why he moved there. He just moved up a little bit. His mother, Julia, is a nurse. She has a guy that she lives with named Alan, and he's a former Ministry of Defense fireman.

Jesus. Yeah, that sounds cool. She got a divorce from the father and found herself some cool fireman. In the Ministry of Defense. Have you met Alan? And he's just like this trapping guy. He doesn't just put out fires.

He puts out fires from fucking Stinger missiles. Yeah, fires from nuclear things and oil burning and shit who knows what that what that does over there but yeah i just picture him standing there and the father comes to pick the kid up and the fireman's just standing there all right all right all right back and forth yeah so uh they live in a bungalow the three three of them. Now that same year, he's kind of upset Matthew about the divorce and the fact that now he lives with some other guy and all this type of shit. That same year, his father has a massive asthma attack and dies.

Oh no. That's a really massive asthma attack to die from it. So his father dies. So he's 13 years old and you know, his life just kind of got flipped turned upside down yes uh the fresh prince of bel-air once told us and this is where royalty's from that's what happened so he's he's he's a little screwed up at this point obviously as you can imagine um because he had remained close to his father and still loved his father. His father lived nearby and everything like that.

So he's upset about that. But it's all outside viewing people. Anybody who's talking to him, hanging out with him, he's known as just kind of a normal person. One of his teachers calls him a, quote, remarkably normal teenager. Yeah. Which is good, I guess. He's good at art. He's really good at art. And during his time in high school,

he wins, I guess he wins a place at a college in Bangor that's an art college. So he won a spot there, basically, with his art. Yeah. I don't know if he has to pay for it or what that does, but he got into an art school, which is, I know, hard to do. So he leaves high school at 16 and goes on to study art and design at Manai College, Manai College.

So that's that new semester in the spring this year, or the fall this year, he starts this. That's what he's doing. That's what he's up to. He gets into it uh a former someone who goes to school with him said he's a quiet lad who keeps to himself yeah well there you go one person said he's not very sociable and stayed uh in most of the time he wasn't a party kind of guy uh one of his teachers said that he was a quote well-behaved boy with a good sense of humor.

He has dyslexia, though, which he's lucky he's good at art then. So that's something that you don't have to deal with that with. But said that he was very into learning. He liked schoolwork and all of his teachers liked him. He was pleasant. He was agreeable and liked it. And he tried. They said he would ask questions and that sort of thing.

But his writing and his spelling were always bad because of his dyslexia. So he never could get that. That's so tough. That's difficult. One teacher said he's always well-behaved and there's never any discipline problems with him at all. Never. So from the ages of 13 to 16, dad's dead. And he figures it out, though. I mean, he's trying to work on his art.

He might not be the most sociable whatever. He might not be the captain of the football team, either kind of football. But either way, he's fine. He's a nice kid. He's working. Well-adjusted. Well-adjusted. Surprisingly.

Exactly. He handles adversity well. That's a good sign of a successful person in the future. He even at 13 gets a paper route. So he's going around. Yeah, he's the paper boy for the whole neighborhood. Big area there of land fair. And that's for three years, 13 to 16. He's into the same shit as friends are into and as all the other kids he likes computer games this is like you know early 2000 2001 2000 2001 he likes computer games he likes you know watches tv likes music and he was still into his art you know hangs out reads magazines drinks with his buddies and all that kind of shit so wild in 2001, over the course of this year and toward the end of 2000, he starts getting a couple of real weird hobbies and a couple of real weird things that he's into.

What's he doing? Mainly vampires. Yeah? Not like Twilight. We're talking like he's into vampires and reading books about legends of old vampires and all this weird vampirical type shit these people that do that understand that it's fucking myths right

they do right well i think most do i think when adults do that uh-huh they probably do they're just the type of people that have a lot of halloween decorations i feel like and they're just into the macabre and that's what they do that's fine yeah yeah but i mean they realize that no sillier than people that are in the nascar or whatever i mean people have their interests that are yeah but don't further anything for them that are into it they realize there's never been a vampire in the history of the world right sure they do jimmy i think they might not honestly i think they don't realize it i think they're i think they're like they're out there i'm telling you i'm just saying maybe not now but back in the day they would swoop

from the sky and take a peasant sheep that's all i'm saying they just swoop it scoop it up suck its blood you know how it goes man it's fucking ridiculous but for a 16 year old kid yeah you know it's just it's a silly thing but a lot of kids get into shit yeah, you know, it's just, it's a silly thing, but a lot of kids get into shit like that. You know, he's kind of fantasy and the idea of it is certainly Rome. There's a romance to it,

but it's also like, dude, come on. It's never, it's also stupid. Yeah. You know, 2001,

it's like vampires and pop culture then. Cause this is pre twilight. Everything changed with twilight as far as their perception of pop culture. because this is pre-twilight everything changed with twilight as far as their perception of pop culture at this point you got buffy you got uh interview with the vampire which was big so vampires are cool and they're fucking handsome and they're yeah i mean they're movie stars they're super sexy and they have abs and shit or what once bitten is that your you know that's a fucking good one with jim carrey we've talked about once bitten we both love once bitten god so good yeah that's amazing so there's

that there's that's it that's it uh brook vampire in brooklyn maybe with eddie murphy i don't know what else there really is at that what's that one where the there was uh uh there was a gotta wear shades is in the fucking in i forget what it is. God damn it. Secret, no. What is it? Not Secret to My Success, definitely not. No. It's another vampire movie where the guy's in the grocery store drinking fucking pig's blood.

Oh, yeah. Another one of those like teen ones. Yeah. Yeah. It's just dumb. Stupidity. Yeah, like One Spittin' type style there. Very similar like that.

So he just kind of gets into the occult and then he has like a special interest in vampires which leads to a real vampire obsession like a real weird obsession with vampires so much so that in september of 2001 he's hanging out with a 16 year old german exchange student a girl so hey you know what you're doing well here yeah you're hanging out with the exchange student everything's going well um they're uh in her bedroom for christ's sake oh wow so yeah he's doing he's doing great yeah he's not just sitting out in the front yard whether they're hanging out in her bedroom so yeah obviously european vacation those girls show their tits oh they're gonna show tits, say some word you don't understand, and then expect you to grab them and fondle them for a while. Do amazing things with them.

Yeah, that's all. They just open up their shirts and smile. I saw that. Even if you're a redheaded, really goofy-looking kid. Dorky kid, yeah. Who used to be Anthony Michael Hall but now isn't anymore, even if you're that. When I was a kid, I thought tits probably tasted amazing and then i grew up and then you found out yes they do skin no they do these are great then i found out

they taste like fix it it's everything i've always wanted it's wonderful they were like i don't know there was like sugar candy on them or something they just that's part of like the routine when they leave the house in the morning, sprinkle some cinnamon on their nipples just in case they encounter you later. Tastes like cotton candy or something. I was like, I can't wait to know what that is. And I was like, yeah, tastes like sweat. But not, though, also just wonderful. Yeah, but mostly sweat. No, no, no, no.

Don't disparage the tit there's nothing wrong i don't care if it's sweaty kind of a letdown well if you're expecting fucking yeah it's my fault it's not fruity yeah it's gonna be a letdown but if you're you know you're trying to taste the rainbow and you're just tasting a- That's a juicy fruit in these. This is weird. You're just tasting kind of titty. It's different. To me, tits are so spectacular when you're a teenager that whatever they taste like then becomes that thing that's wonderfully tasty.

That replaces- These taste like salty cotton candy. That replaces pink Starburst as the best flavor anything you could get you know just replaces it so i'm sure women felt that way about dicks too though i'm sure maybe not though they're probably like that and then they're like it's worse than i thought oh god jesus way worse than i thought the balls have to be right there that That's gross. Nobody wants to look at those. So he's hanging out with this 16-year-old German exchange student here. So boom. It's all good, right?

Hell yeah. He thought that. Oh, my. Oh, boy. He thought that she was one of a local community of vampires where she is, okay, where they are secret society yeah she and he wants in he wants in he's like you're a fucking one of these vampires that i want to be a part of like what's up like give me some literature here let me get me in the club you know what i mean me in so while in her bedroom he's saying this and she's like you know whatever german people say i don't know

we don't have a lot of german listeners so yeah just nine nine over and over he she tried to hire him to make him stop he wouldn't listen to that i don't know that's all we know about germany that's it you did this sorry we have like very few german listeners so you know what don't care it's fine i feel like the people listening in germany are probably expats anyway so probably probably not full-on german people service members are certain that's the other thing too yeah we have a lot of service members so um either way he said jesus christ he is so convinced to this and she's saying you know nine nine yeah he pushes his neck against her mouth go and bite me fucking bite me turn me god damn it pleaded with her please bite me he's like

holding her head not in his crotch up against his neck to bite him so he could become a vampire he's like fucking vampire me let's do this come. She thought he was kidding at first. She thought he was funny. She's like, this is hilarious. You know what I mean? But then he's freaking out. Like, so fucking bite me. Bite me.

And so she started screaming when he pushed her on the bed and repeatedly said, bite me. Bite me. You're going to bite me. And not meaning it in a, you know, bite me type of way. Like, he was like, fucking bite me bite me you're gonna bite me and not meaning it in a you know bite me type of way like he was like fucking bite me so this is and before this happened he was telling her that landfair pg is a perfect location for vampires yeah he said many of the residents are elderly so if they died and got their blood sucked out nobody would even notice yeah dog but the thing is super easy like cocoon town yeah isn't it supposed to be like virgins and pure blood though

like no i think he's just thinking any blood i think vampires are different in great britain probably they're they're more polite they're not we're picky over here you know what i mean it's got to be a virgin they got to be this that all this pure shit they're like all right just all right all right yeah yeah you're teaming with it mate you did your best mate i mean really there he is you know old or not i mean yeah i will nosh your neck so you never know that's that's what it. She might have thought that. It would be polite. Even the vampires are polite there. So she said, quote, I was really afraid because he had this lunatic look in his eye. Yeah, I would say. So the police were called because she's screaming.

And her parents called the police. When they get there, they talk to young Matthew. And when they confront him, he starts begging the officer to bite him. He sees one of the officers, thinks one of the two officers is also a vampire, and says, you just fucking bite me. Come on, bite me. And he's like, what the fuck is wrong with this kid, man? This kid is whacked out. So what happens from that?

He's put in a hospital and has some—nothing happens. Nothing. What? They don't do shit they're just like um get out and don't come back here and quit acting weird and then they left he's sick in it yeah that's it done so november 24th 2001 all right um this is right by his house within it's a you could throw a baseball to where it is, or, I don't know, a cricket ball, I guess. You could throw it right over there.

Whatever you guys throw. Whatever you guys throw. They're not into throwing much over there. I feel like they're more of a, right, they're less throwy and more kicky, I feel like, over there. I mean, yeah, all that shit over there is just kickball. It's a lot of kicking, and I mean, cricket and rugby and shit, you run around, you grab the ball and run it and kick. You throw it in cricket, but you don't even really throw it.

You throw it into the ground. There's not a lot of... There's a lot of underhand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not a lot of pitching over there, regardless of balls. Right by his house, pitching or catching or throwing or anything else. Two minutes away lives a woman named Mabel Mayshon. Mabel.

Mabel's 90. Jesus Christ. 90. She's described as, I love this description from a neighbor, a typical old lady living on her own. Doing it all on her own still. Typical, yeah. She hasn't been involved with her family.

Her husband died 13 years earlier, and she just isn't involved with her family after that. And they said she leaves her home once in a while just to attend church. But she's not like – and that's like once every month maybe. She'll just go to church and come back, and that's it. No big deal. Well, apparently Matthew one night decided he needed to check on his theories of vampirism here. So she, Mabel is, or Laishon, I said Maishon, I meant Laishon, Mabel, the M's got to me there. So Mabel Laishon, she is in her living room watching TV.

He smashes his way through a window, Matthew, where she's sitting in a chair, broke into her home. He attacks her from behind and hits her a couple times, gets a kitchen knife that he apparently brought with him himself, not from her house, and stabs her 22 times. An old lady? A 90- year old lady why 22 times well it gets a little more um it gets a little more uh uh clear of what he's doing here in a second so it's 22 times he stabs her um she's dead at that moment so oh my god okay uh what he does now is he he's he slices he slices her legs at her arteries so blood will drain out sure and he drains the blood into a saucepan yikes and he drinks it into a sauce. He drained the blood into a saucepan and put it up to his mouth and drank it. Yes. Wow.

Into a saucepan and drank this woman's blood. Still warm from the body. Okay. That's not enough, though. He then uses a kitchen knife to cut open her chest. Yeah. Cuts open her chest, removes her heart. Yikes.

Wraps it in newspaper, puts it in the saucepan, then gets a silver platter, like an ornate silver platter that's some holiday serving platter. From 400 years old. and places the saucepan. Oh, I'm sure it was. Yeah, it was 400 years old. Absolutely. It was. To the round table, drank off of it. Robin Hood stole it from someone and gave it to her.

That's what happened because she's that age. So but he then he puts that on the silver, the saucepan on the silver platter and places that next to her. OK, so Hart wrapped a newspaper in the saucepan like he's wrapping it up like a butcher. Like, there you go. Take that home for later. Put it on the grill. Places that next to her.

Then he takes two brass fireplace pokers and puts them at her feet in the shape of a crucifix. and puts them at her feet in the shape of a crucifix. Then he takes a candlestick and places it close to her on the floor, and a red candle on the mantelpiece that he balanced on top of something else as well, and left it all like that, and just left. Left the heart in the newspaper. Left it all there. Well, that's how he set that all up. Left her chest cut wide open enough to take a heart out.

Like vampire bait. Yeah, exactly. Like, come on. But he drank the blood in there. And he put the cross there. You don't want to do that. It's all very strange. I was going to say, you're going to keep the vampires away with that.

Are you trying to attract them or keep them away? Are you luring them so they could then go, oh, no, fire poker cross. Put a bunch of garlic around her, too. Yeah. This poor fucking lady is 90 years old, for Christ's sake. She doesn't need this bullshit. You know, no one does. Obviously needs to be murdered.

But 90 years old. What a terrible. What the fuck, man? That's fucking awful. Is it? Do you think he does this just because it's an easy target? He said no one will notice. They're old. Who cares? That's his basic thing is like he looks this just because it's an easy target he said no one will notice they're old who cares that's his basic thing is like he looks at her she's a widow doesn't talk

to her family she's an old lady sitting in a house by herself who the hell is going to give a shit or notice if she's murdered you know that's obviously horrible like as a human being your your thought should be like never fuck with her yeah there's a woman over there who's 90 and she's on her own. Maybe, is there anything I can do for her? Can I cut her grass for her? Can I trim her hedges? Hey, we should see if she's like, we should bring her dinner once a week. Let's be nice.

Not, hey, I bet I can kill her and fucking take her organs out and place them on her best silverware. That's crazy. Obviously. Obviously nuts. The fucking obvious thing of the day. So's crazy. Obviously. Obviously nuts. The fucking obvious thing of the day. So the next day is a Sunday afternoon. Yeah. And a volunteer.

Oh, boy. A volunteer social worker from the Angsley Council has come by, basically meals on wheels, come to bring her her lunch. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts yeah she doesn't answer the door uh mabel obviously so this woman who came to deliver her food uh notices a smashed rear window at that point she's looking around to see if maybe maybe mabel's in the back of the house where is she and she sees a window so she calls the police police open the door and holy shit as you can imagine when you open the door to that because it's right in the living room right in the front door when you walk in it's right in the living room, right in the front door when you walk in. It's boom.

Look at me right in the right in the face. The detective said it was totally macabre. Mabel was sitting in her usual chair and had been clearly watching television when she'd been stabbed from the back. She'd suffered multiple stab wounds. Good God. A pair of pokers had been placed in the position of a cross in the front of her chair, along with some candles. In front of her was a saucepan with something in newspaper inside. That's the heart.

It was only later in the forensic conditions of the mortuary that we realized it was Mabel's human heart inside that newspaper. My God. Holy fucking shit. They didn't even know it until they got it back to the mortuary no they didn't unwrap anything because it's it's you know you get it in a clean forensic environment so nothing gets in there and who knows what it is now they do she was stabbed 22 times jagged cuts were found on the side of her neck and also deep cuts on her legs and wrists. Anywhere where he knew a lot of blood came out, he was cutting. Looked like that someone was trying to drain as much blood as possible from her body.

A nine-inch gaping wound in her chest where her heart had been ripped out as well. Holy shit, man. This is fucking crazy. This is fucking crazy. They said a quantity of blood was also found in the saucepan and lip marks with blood were discovered on the side. My God. So they knew he drank it. Yeah.

The lead detective said at the time I'd been in the police force for 25 years and I had never experienced anything as horrific as that murder scene before. And neither had any of my colleagues. It's not something you ever forget. No, this is like a fake horror movie thing. You'd see this in an 80s horror movie and be like, whoa, that's a crazy one. That's beyond Freddy and Jason. That's fucking crazy. So the police, they have no clue who could have done this. So the police, they have no clue who could have done this.

They do say immediately they announce that they're pursuing someone with, quote, considerable knowledge of physiology gained perhaps through medical training or in the butchery trade. And also someone with the strength to get through a chest and open it up. So they think they're looking. This is what I this is what I don't understand. They think they're looking for a doctor. Yeah, like when they talk about Jack the Ripper, a lot of people are like, oh, but he'd have to have been a this or a surgeon or a butcher. No, he wouldn't. He could just be a disgusting guy that read a lot of fucking books and knew where stuff

was and went in after it. That's all. That could also be it. If you have an obsession or you want to cut people open, you'll probably read a book to see what's in there first. Tend to, yeah. You know, just a thought. So that's what they think they're looking for, though. They've consulted also experts, and I'm using hard air quotes on this one, experts in the field of the occult and witchcraft and have also sought the help of psychological profilers.

They have no idea. They said they're lost as fuck. More than 100 people in the immediate area gave DNA samples and voluntarily. They basically said anyone who wants to come in and give a DNA sample, come and do it, which I doubt the murderer is going to come. Hey, come here, take my DNA. If they show up, just take their name. A waste of lab space. Yeah. If someone shows up and someone else is waiting in the car, write that person's name down. So the supervisor of here, the detective supervisor of the North Wales police who was leading the investigation, said his officers were looking to trace the driver of a blue van seen by several people in the area. The obviously this is shocking to a tiny little island community that nobody expects this shit, especially to an old lady.

And after Mabel's death, from then on, just rampant reports of strange vans being spotted driving around the area. People are nervous. And one guy on purpose, this isn't an accident, I have to say this, because when you hear it, you'll go, what happened? He did this on purpose, set fire to himself himself then jumped off the manai bridge oh my so he did that and then a woman was found dead at a local cemetery and so people were saying this is all connected this is all some weird occult vampire shit that guy was probably a vampire he set himself on fire drowned himself you know that goes with vampires and then generally how vampires commit suicide

usually i think there's a he read a different book than most that's what he thought he didn't get it so and then the woman found in the cemetery obviously that had to be you know it's where you just where you kill people there's a wild cult running amok anything in the cemetery is clearly uh nutty shit It's nutty shit. Round up the local, you know, the local weirdos who's wearing black. Find them all. That's what they're going to do. So strange vans, all this shit. People are

completely freaked out, but police quickly rule out any link between the three people. Mabel, the cemetery lady, and fucking human fireball. Fireman. All done there. So they said, uh, you know, human fireball, all, uh, all, all done there. So they said, this is the detective.

It was scary for the community because of course they thought that whoever was responsible might offend again. Well, no shit. They said that fear will remain until that person who's responsible is found. So 12 weeks go by while they're doing this investigation. 12 weeks. 12 weeks. Matthew lives like're doing this investigation. 12 weeks. 12 weeks. Matthew lives like three houses away, by the way.

It's right there. So they say that one of the detectives says, the advice I was given by the two psychologists who work with me on the case said that whoever was responsible was likely to kill again. Fuck yeah. Yeah. He's going to get it however he wants to get it right, and he's going to find a weird little routine that he likes. The killer had left DNA at the scene on the saucepan, and a distinctive sneaker tread was found on the patio

outside the broken back window. So they're going to Night Stalker his ass. It's an Avia model, whatever the shit. Size 8, only sold in Arizona. Size 8 1⁄ a half bought in tucson um that's richard ramirez everybody so um they had a hundred local volunteers to be dna tested there had no idea what they're doing they sent the detective on bbc's crime watch the tv show airing all over the nation So a flurry of calls came in and all the calls. There's a lot of them had a similar theme.

Yeah. Listen, don't know who did it. But if I had to guess who's weird around there, I'd look at this Matthew Hardman kid. He's fucking weird. He's super weird. He's super weird. So they go, well, I guess we'll look at this kid. When they look into his past, they read about the incident of him trying to force his neck into someone's mouth and screaming at cops to bite him. So like, all right, that's weird.

That's strange. And he said he also read in the report that he was telling the cops to bite me so he could, quote, become a vampire and be immortal. So he's like, I'd love to talk to this fucking weirdo. This is if nothing else it'll be a fun afternoon it's gonna be interesting anyway he's gonna say some shit i never thought of probably they find out he's obsessed with vampires your usual kind of a devil warship dark arts that sort of shit you know visited like weird websites just a kid who's into weird shit except that he killed a woman and drank her blood you know there's sort of different a little different so it was uh he then it was discovered

that he delivered the newspaper to mabel's home i was just gonna say he probably deserved delivered the newspaper that he used to wrap her in yep he's i'm sure he did um they said that he was working at a or he said that he was working at a hotel that night because he was about a semester. This is January. He's a semester into his art school and he's working at night at a hotel. But he wasn't at work, they found out. He was lying about his alibi. Then the DNA at the murder scene matched that of blood found on a knife at Matthew's house in his room.

Uh-oh. So he's got a knife in his room with mabel's blood on it oh that's not good here there's only one way that happens that's well not according to his mom actually we have one of the craziest statements we've ever had on this fucking show i can't wait to hear how she explains that it's amazing it's dude it's wild you can you can twist if you believe something you can twist any fact to make it so you really can and this is proof of this shit later on so um they arrest him obviously and he says he never he never really denies it at all he just says that um he'll just but he won't literallyies it at all he just says that um he'll but he won't really give in at first he just says that when it happened he was smoking weed so he doesn't know you know yeah you just blank out and fucking take a woman's heart out and drink her blood

when you get high you know it goes that is some that's one way of saying what weed does to you that's i've literally never had a thirst for elderly blood blood i mean i get caught mouth i gotta get caught mouth but only one way to solve it 90 year old blood 90 year old blood i'm gonna get that right now so they search his room um he searched they said he had looked on the internet for vampire websites i don't know what the fuck that means just websites about vampires best gore.com shit like that yeah he read a magazine which featured an article on how to conduct a black mass well that's who cares that's not what he did he tried to he fucking drank a woman's blood let's concentrate on that part who gives a shit what he did. He tried to fucking drank a woman's blood. Let's concentrate on that part. Who gives a shit what he's reading?

So during the search, they recover his shoes, which matched the foot marks at the scene and the pocket of a coat hanging on the door of his bedroom. Inside, they found a knife stained with his with Mabel's blood. So he's pretty fucked here. He's not good at he's not good at hiding evidence. You know, that's the thing. When you're a vampire. You can just fly away and you don't really have to deal with the aftermath of this shit. But when you're a 17-year-old with a paper route, it's different.

The bummer about being a vampire, if this did turn him, is that now he's immortal and life in prison is so much longer. That would be so much longer. But I think a bat can fit out through those little bars. If you can figure it, you're out. Yeah. So they said they were shocked that he was so young when they talked to him and also that he was very calm when they arrested him. They arrest him and he's just dead calm. The detective said there was no panic, no objection to being arrested, and he was perfectly happy to be interviewed.

He freely admitted that he searched a lot of websites looking at forensic issues and vampirism and quote. In fact, he was quite happy to talk about anything except the killing of Mabel, which he denied. So they were really freaked out by that. They said his reaction to the charge amazed everyone. They said, you know,

he'd been arrested on suspicion of murder question questioned closely about the murder, and charged. And he was just like, meh, just a big shoulder shrug. Not really a big deal. He's interviewed a shitload. He's interviewed his lawyers there. There's a social worker there. He's interviewed 16 times by two

police officers. Wow. They questioned him closely about his movements on that weekend where Mabel was murdered. He was also asked about his interest in vampires and why he was found to have a six-inch kitchen knife in his jacket pocket with the victim's blood on it. It's a problem. They asked him about his part-time work as a waiter and paperboy and the clothes he owns to try to put some blood in there. Total 11 hours of interviews and 167 pages over 16 different interviews. So it's a lot.

One of the sergeants said of the interview, during the interview, he was cool, unfazed, and fairly laid back. He was not fazed by the questioning, even though we questioned him in a number of interviews over a three-day period. Not only that, but he was charged with the murder. He showed absolutely no emotion. After we charged him with murder, we asked him if there was anything he wanted, anything we could get him.

All he wanted was a Big Mac and fries and a milkshake. They make a blood shake. They still got the blood. Is it? Oh, no, it's not St. Patrick's Day anymore. They don't have the blood shake anymore. Never mind. They still got the blood. Is it? Oh no, it's, it's, it's not St. Patrick's day anymore. They don't have the blood shake anymore. Nevermind.

It's not the, uh, that's the choice. That's what he wants. Big Mac fries and a milkshake. Okay. And he said, we took him to a cell and he was offering us some of his fries.

He said, he said, it's something that really brings it home to you. a 17-year-old boy could be so cool not one bit of emotion was forthcoming. At no stage in the interview did he even cry as he's being yelled at. The only time he showed emotion when he was asked about his Levi shoes, the prints of which were found at the murder scene, they said, I was the officer tasked to investigate the shoe prints found at the murder scene he uh they said i was the officer tasked to investigate the shoe prints found at the scene i was able to tell matthew hardman that the shoes were unique sold only by four outlets in the whole country holy shit he got ramirez man yeah pick a fuck murderers pick a common sneaker okay if you're out there nike dunks there you go they're all over everyone's there sell them in every fucking

store in the universe there you go done set so four fucking shoes they said so um one of the one of those was the burton's chain and matthew had told us he bought the shoes a few months earlier at the bangor branch and not a lot of them came into the country only 22 pairs were sold at that store 22 so i had 22 and uh that's wild so they said earlier in the interview we were talking about the shoes i noticed that matthew was playing with his right eye i asked him if there was anything that was a matter and he said he'd be smoking and a bit of the nicotine had gone into his eye and it was starting to sting what a bit of the smoke not the nicotine but he's not smoking there he was smoking earlier and he has such and it still hurts nicotine deposits on his finger that he touched his eye

and made his eye sting okay i don't understand that so they claim that uh he's dyslexic and has the comprehension of a 12-year-old, but the police said that his replies didn't seem like anybody with any kind of difficulties other than maybe spelling and shit. They said many of his replies were monosyllabic, just yes and no. Others were more nuanced here. He was told in the final interview that the DNA profile taken from him matched blood found within the blood of Mabel there. He was asked what he had to say about it.

What of it? And Hardman said, nothing. They said, what is the explanation for this sample that matches your characteristics? And he said, I don't have an answer. I can't explain it. Nothing. Nothing. And I don't know. i have no reasonable explanation nothing so they were like okay so a family friend this is a reaction from people around because a 17 year old who does this there's got to be a lot of people freaked out a family friend said quote he wasn't a weirdo he didn't wear black and neither was he a village bad lad. So he wasn't a goth and he wasn't like a kid that ran around breaking car windows or anything.

He was just a normal kid who wore jeans and trainers. That's what makes this all the more shocking. Oh, man, he was a sheep and a vampire in sheep's clothes. Vampire in teenage clothes. Yeah. One friend recalled an incident when he missed the bus and he'd been offered a ride by Matthew. He said,

at the time I was in his house, I didn't see anything strange to make me believe that he did it. So he's like, he didn't do it. After he's arrested, they also focus on his art portfolio. Friends say it was full of morbid

and depressing images, particularly death, blood, and knives. Yeah. Which, it's art though, you know,

who knows. How you interpret it. Yeah. He said, I don, though. You know, who knows. How you interpret it. Yeah. He said, It's just a local lad. So, why did he do this, obviously? Let's find out. A psychiatrist named Emma Kenny said that this killing came from a desire to fit in. With who? Vampires?

What the fuck are you talking about? Cutting an old lady's heart out is going to make you a social outcast, I would think. That's not the coolest thing to tell your friends that you did. Who's he going to tell that now they want to hang out with him? That's yeah. Where in prison? This psychiatrist said kids have got this desire to always fit in, but also to be somebody of some standing a murderer, though.

She goes on to say, if you don't really feel that you were ever going to get anywhere or you're ever going to succeed, connecting with something that makes you feel like you stand out, even if it's macabre and black and wrong, is attractive. Then you can find websites and platforms that say, yes, you are special, and you can almost start to live in a different reality. We see this all over the place. It's just fucking people do that everywhere. I mean, Jesus Christ. Never mind. We won't get into it.

But you know what the fuck we're talking about out there it's in the world just people are nuts you've seen people that are in a different reality now and just they can you can find any reality you want on the internet that's what's crazy that's what's you know i don't think that was in mind when they came up with it but if it doesn't if it doesn't exist you can create it and that's even worse yeah and you can find people who will feed into it. It's crazy. So they go on to say, Hardman is a cold-blooded killer, and what he did was absolutely terrifying. But the delusions he had are so horrific that you have to ask what's going on in his life that made him feel so invisible that he wanted to make himself feel visible in such a distressing and tragic way.

I don't know. Visible is really the thing. Um, a former prison psychiatrist, a psychiatric nurse, I'm sorry, said that they, he was talking to this kid a lot in jail.

This is the guy who worked in the admissions office and talk to him all the time. And, uh, he said he worked for 38 years as a mental health nurse said shortly after arrival, I referred him to meet a psychiatrist who concluded he had no mental issues, which I found mind boggling, to be honest. So it seems like he does.

He said he was never able to forget when he first walked into the office. He said, I was just I was just sat in my little office. And this 17 year old kid, about 510 blonde hair, blue eyes walks in. He said he was a handsome young lad, blonde hair, blue eyes, well-dressed,year-old kid, about 5'10", blonde hair, blue eyes, walks in. He said he was a handsome young lad, blonde hair, blue eyes, well-dressed, well-spoken, very polite. I knew what he was accused of and thought if my daughter had brought him home, I'd think, what a nice lad. Until he begs you to bite his neck. Until he starts yelling at you, bite my fucking neck, while he's standing on your kitchen table, kicking your pork chops off.

This is a prison psychiatrist who cannot get over how handsome this kid is. He's a sexy... You know, at one point, I said, oh, I dropped my paper. Would you pick it up, please? The rump... It was spectacular. It's all I'll say. Blonde hair, blue eyes rump, just the, it was spectacular. That's all I'll say. Blonde hair, blue eyes. Oh, right.

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's right. Uh-huh. So he said that he walked in and he said, hello, sir, are you the doctor? And the guy said, I am the psychiatric nurse. How do you feel? End quote. And he replied with a huge grin on his face and said this is the most exciting thing

that's ever happened to me holy shit you asshole the guy said if you had said to me when i was 17 years old we are charging you with murder and taking you to a high security prison i would have been in floods of tears asking for my mom but not hardman this boy had disemboweled an old lady wrapped her heart in old newspapers and drank her blood under the mistaken impression that this would make him a vampire and he would live forever he was mistaken well no shit you know what that's not we don't know that yet we don't check back in a hundred years if he's still alive maybe he was right we don't know did you get the death penalty did you do it with a fucking stake through the heart

right there you go unless that's what's gonna happen we don't know it you get the death penalty did you do it with a fucking stake through the heart right there you go unless that's what's going to happen we don't know it's he could pop up at any time so they said also his the way he did his time where he said there's different types of prisoners some who would play tough and defiant others that would be like an emotional denial and he said you would get those who said i've got life and i don't care and others who'd be saying i didn't mean to do it. The voices told me to it. And then those in denial. Hardman never admitted his guilt.

And even despite the compelling evidence, denied ever being in Mabel's home even. What? Yeah. That's it. So he said that he went to his cell and he said he felt sorry for him. He was sorry for him. At one point, he said, Matthew said, do you think I'm guilty? And the psychiatric nurse said, I said to him, I know you're guilty.

Everyone knows. He was curled up crying. He goes, do you think I'm guilty? Of course I do. Everyone does, you dumb shit. Obviously. DNA, stupid. Who are you trying to snow you had the murder weapon in your pocket dna well sorry you're the and there you go either way you're fucked is what i'm saying f u c k however you fucking whatever

letters you want to arrange that. J-C-U-F, that's you. You're shit out of luck, homie. S-O-L, there's another one we can put on there. You're fucked, dude. So he said through 16 hours of interview, he at no time offered any sympathy, any concern about Mabel LeSean and what happened to her. When asked if he believed Hardman knew of his own guilt, this guy said, he could be in denial,

but the evidence was so overwhelming, I don't think there's any doubt. So July 2002 is the trial. Now you would imagine that immediately, just based on this scene, if you're his lawyer, you go,

we're fucking pleading insanity because that shit's crazy. We're moving this to Australia. Yeah. That shit is crazy is what it would be. Like, you can't look at that scene and go, what's maniac fucking psychopath crazy shit did that? So, but they never bring up insanity at all. Nothing.

That's not. Is that something that in England or in the UK? No, you can do insanity. Absolutely. They just never do. So the jury never has that to consider. It's a three week trial. There's a lot of physical evidence and shit like that. And they said, you know, he was the and believed, most importantly, that they could achieve immortality. The killer had become obsessed with two questions. How do I become a vampire and how do I become a mortal?

He decided he needed to carry it out with this grotesque killing in order to provide a sacrifice. What? What the fuck, man? Holy shit. So it doesn't matter what the prosecutor said. He could have gone up there and just went, DNA on the knife in his pocket in his room bye everybody footprints peace i gotta run yeah mic drop i'm gonna go out to fucking dinner let this guy say whatever he wants i'll be back later for when you say he's guilty thanks refute this for the next however long i'll be don't care i'll be back i don't need to see this shit. I'm not going to object to shit.

Get around that, bitch. I don't care. I don't care what the fuck you put forward. You're screwed. I'm not going to object to anything anyway. I won't anyway. I'm going for tea. See you around.

Doesn't matter. Yeah. All right. All right. And he just leaves. That's that. So he is found guilty of murder obviously here so sentencing comes around now the original you sir may fuck off stemmed from gavin grant who's an english soccer player

who murdered someone and the judge read him the fucking riot act and then that was like i was like wow that's a real you sir may you know. You know, you, sir, mate. Fuck off. Real English. The English judges really throw down. And this guy is no exception. His name. Well, they still do it in fucking wigs, which is awesome. Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's fucking cool.

His name is Justice Richards. Judge Justice Richards. I'm like, oh, yes. He says, and I quote, You have been convicted by the jury on the strength of the most compelling evidence. The horrific nature of this murder was plain to all. It was a vicious and sustained attack on a vulnerable old lady in her own home, aggravated by the mutilation of her body after she had been killed.

It was planned and carefully calculated. Why you should have acted in this way is difficult to comprehend, but I am drawn to the conclusion that vampirism had indeed become a near obsession with you, that you really did believe that this myth may be true, that you did think that you would achieve immortality by the drinking of another person's blood, and that you found this irresistible attraction. It may well seem incredible, but my judgment is

that's where the evidence leads. One might hope for a psychological explanation for your behavior, but none is offered. I must proceed on the basis that you are of sound mind and I must look for an explanation in your behavior elsewhere. You have specific learning difficulties, but this can't account for it. I can make an allowance for a degree of confused thinking and immaturity for some childish fantasizing, but the fact remains this was an act of great wickedness, and one that you have not faced up to, and one for which you have not shown any remorse. You hoped for immortality, but all you have achieved is the brutal ending of another person's life

and the bringing of a life sentence upon yourself. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison for you. Life forever, right? And he just said, all right, all right. Real life, right? Nope, he has to serve a minimum of 12 years. What the fuck is that?

That's what the judge said, a minimum of 12 years up to life. That's how it works. That's what they do. 12 to life. 12 to life. So the German girl who he wanted to bite was there. She saw really she ran out of the courtroom when he got sentenced crying. So I don't know if she liked him or if she was just freaked out by the whole thing or what.

But I felt lucky to be alive. That's probably it. Yeah. His mother leaned over the balcony and said, I love you, son. And detective afterwards said, if I hadn't if we hadn't discovered the evidence, arrested and subsequently convicted him, he could have gone on to commit further horrendous crimes in Anglesey and elsewhere. The prison shrink said, having spent so much time with him, I'm convinced he was a paranoid schizophrenic. I'm also in no doubt he was guilty. Evidence against him was overwhelming.

And though he always denied it, I don't think there's any way he didn't do it. He was a young man who didn't show any emotion. In fact, the only time he did was on the day he was sentenced. He asked me if I thought he was guilty. And I said I did and everyone did. He curled up in a fetal position and started crying. No one believes in him. Except his family.

And this is fucking amazing. His relatives are hoping an appeal will address the quote unanswered questions in the murder case. Like what? What unanswered questions are there? We've got a pretty good answer. We got the murder weapon, we got DNA, we got footprints, we got connection between

them. The only unanswered question is Ma, how'd you let this happen? No shit. Maybe that's what it is. She doesn't want to admit it or the family doesn't. So the sister, the older sister, Danielle Stevenson is her name, said that the family sympathized with the family and friends of Mabel, obviously. But they believe that the wrong person is behind bars and that the real killer is still walking the streets of land fair, probably arm and arm with Nicole Simpson's killer.

I'm sure of it. I'm positive of it. Arm and arm. They're golfing together. It's a twosome. So his sister said that her brother was a gentle, generous boy who adored his grandparents who are also elderly in case you didn't know,

you know, she invoked elderly people. She didn't say that. I'm saying that. That's why she said he adores his grandparents. Wink, wink, doesn't kill them and drink their old blood. She invoked elderly people. How could she do that? And was so wonderful with her own children. She told the Daily Post, I feel huge sorrow for Mrs. Leyshan's family and friends,

but I don't believe that the person who took her life has been brought to justice and her killer is still walking the streets and could murder again. Holy shit. She wouldn't give full details of the alleged inconsistencies, obviously. She wouldn't lay out the plan here.

But she said they're the subject of the latest appeal. She said, I hope we find the person or persons responsible for this horrific crime as there is a young man in prison who's innocent. Justice has not been done. She said the most damning aspect of the evidence against Matthew at the trial is the fact that traces of Mabel's DNA were on the knife. Yeah, that's a good one. That's in his pocket. You just said an insurmountable piece of evidence

that could only be the murderer and then do you just stop at that point and go i'm not helping my case i'm gonna stop talking instead she says continuing the sentence wow to be honest i can't completely explain that except to say that matthew delivered her newspaper for three years i'm not a forensics expert no shit we know that sweetheart trust me that's not to be debated you keep going sugar but surely it's possible for minute amounts of dna to innocently transfer from one person to another of dna to innocently transfer from one person to another what the only place the dna was was on the bloody knife in his pocket though it's not like what are you talking about two years ago he went to collect for the paper and now he's got her dna and about a bloody knife in his pocket the fuck are you talking about there's an innocent wow wow that is shocking

she watched the first watch fucking dateline or anything for five minutes and then never speak about this again wow she goes on to say she didn't run away embarrassed at that point some people will think i'm being naive and simply refusing to accept the truth. Yeah, all of us or just like him. Yes, everybody. We all do. But I can't stand. I can't and won't believe that the gentle, generous boy who adored his grandparents could grow up into a sadistic, murderous young man. He even cried when he was made to look at photos of the crime scene, not because he felt remorse, as some people assumed, but because he was shocked by the images he saw. I was certain the jury would find the charges ridiculous and acquit him. What are you fucking...

Wow. Holy shit. And the other evidence, she said, focused on people she claimed the police should have investigated more thoroughly. She said there was a man who walked past the victim's home a few weeks before the crime and was actually saying how he wanted to do mrs lation and that means kill over there that mean doesn't mean fuck over here like it is over here there was a woman who told the police

a person had come forward to her and admitted carrying out the crime but the police dismissed it unless they admitted to putting a d blood soaked knife in fucking dude's pocket. It's stupid evidence matter. There are a lot of unanswered questions and loopholes within this case and justice has not been done. She said she's been visiting Matthew regularly. She said he's studying for his GCSEs.

I don't know what that is. And following and following courses in art, English and math, he's determined to get through his sentence, and we are supporting him 100%. I live closest to the prison and visit every three weeks or so. Mom and my sisters can't visit often, but they try and visit as often as they can. She said, I've told the children that their Uncle Matthew is in jail now because someone said he did something bad, but he didn't do it.

Oh, my God. Stop lying to your children. Jesus. If just one tiny part of me suspected he was capable of murder, I wouldn't let them anywhere near him. Last October, on Matthew's birthday, they were so excited they could hardly wait to see him. She said, it's been an incredible shock to us all. Sometimes I wonder if this really happened, because it's unbelievable.

Holy shit. I wonder if you are that stupid. That's unbelievable. Why you're so such in denial and why you are so sick. Fucking insane. There was a, like a documentary on a, like a British show that does it's murder by the sea.

And it was season one, episode three. They did on that. That was in 2018. Sure. It was a bang up job either way that everybody is Landfair Wales United Kingdom

very careful to not call it England because the English are like those fucking people aren't English and the Welsh are like we're not fucking English so they don't want neither of them want them to be English so let's not call them English they are British though Landfair PG Welsh where everything is anything confusing holy fuck yeah that was x-rated that should be

land fair triple x is what this shit should be called this town my god holy shit if you like that show tell the world about it get on whatever app you're listening on give a review five stars helps it helps drive us up the charts. Thank you so much for doing that. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com where you can get tickets November the 28th on sale for 2023 live shows. You have all the dates at the top of the show. Can't wait for that. Hit those up. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Five dollars or more a month gets you all the bonus shit.

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And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Invite me. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media will have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.