Small Town Murder - #341 - Never Gonna Pig You Up - Denville, New Jersey

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

This week, in Denville, New Jersey, the two friendliest people in town just happen to be married to each other, but when that marriage starts to crumble, things start to get nasty & personal. But when the wife is found, stabbed an almost uncountable number of times, and has a rubber pig mask, placed over her face, the the whole investigation gets weird. Was it the husband, looking for revenge, or some other random very sick person, with a bloodlust, and a penchant for humiliation!! A very strange story!!Along the way, we find out that New Jersey apparently isn't as cold as all the places right around it, that grown men shouldn't drive convertible Mazda Miatas, and that there are more subtle ways to call someone a pig!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Denville, New Jersey, pools of blood, knives, and a pig mask make up an especially violent and creepy murder scene that leads to an even stranger explanation. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay that's right yay indeed jimmy yay

indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today on another wild edition of Small Town Murder. And this is no different. Wow, is this a weird one? They get weirder all the time and we're embracing it. We love it. It's crazy stuff. You're going to hear about a wild murder.

Before we get to that very quickly, just want to say thank you for everything. First of all, tickets are on sale. Shut up and give me murder.com. Oh, where you go to get your tickets. Apparently they're selling like the first half of the year now. And then in early 2023, the second half comes out this.

We had no idea. This was the plan. We did not know. We weren't told this is live nations plan. And they said, this is what you're doing. And we said, huh?

And they went, yeah, yeah. And that's it. So it's okay. Don't worry, we're fine. It's fine. We're okay with it.

I think you can get up through Pittsburgh through May 6th right now, and then the rest of the year will go on sale in like a month or two. It's not a big deal. So get ready for those, everybody. We'll get all pumped up. Tickets are flying off the shelves, though. They really are. Especially St. Louis.

Get in there, because that is like, in a day, it's almost sold out. It's crazy. It's crazy. Get in there and get into St. Louis and all the other ones, too. Cleveland, too, is our first show. We'll kick it off February 10th. Thank you. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com is where you get that. Merch, everything like that. Patreon.com

slash CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material and we pump out the bonus episodes like nobody else. We're told that. We really do. Our Patreon is the most reliable thing you're ever going to get here. And it's anybody $5 a month

or above. We don't care if anything else gets raised in price. Patreon is $5. That's it. We are the Costco hot dogs of Patreon. Yeah, the Arizona iced tea of Patreon. It's $, yeah, the Arizona iced tea of Patreon. It's $5. And what you're going to get for that is a whole back catalog. There's like 150 episodes of bonus stuff there.

And every other week you're going to get two new episodes, one crime and sports, one small town murder. That's hard to say. You'll get access to it all this week, which you're going to get for crime and sports. So much fun. it all this week what you're going to get for crime and sports so much fun crazy stories from the aba the american basketball league which was the pro league in the 60s and 70s so you're going to hear crazy 60s and 70s stories there's some really crazy people that played and some wild backstories it's going to be so much fun and then for small town murder we're going to talk about finally because we talked about blaming music for murder and blaming things like that, books and stuff.

We're going to talk about a big, giant swath of this video game, people that blame video games for murders. We're going to talk all about that and see what the hell's going on there, because there's been so many cases of that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports, and you'll get a shout out at the end of the show, of course, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while he's desperately trying to get it correct. That said disclaimer,

this is a comedy show. It is. We are comedians. All the story is as real as it gets. There's nothing, nothing about that. No embellishment for comedic effect or anything like that. We do try to do the best research possible.

And then, then talk about how absurd everything is that happens here. Because anytime there's a murder, the idea of, I think I'll kill that person, that's an absurd idea. Maybe I'll get away with it. Yeah, that's crazy. We're going to make fun of you for that. We are, because that's the only recourse we have as comedians. So, you know, what we do, though, is we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why, James? Because we're assholes. Yeah, but? But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So that sounds good to you. We're going to have a blast. If you think that true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, never go together, then I don't know.

Maybe we're not for you. But give it a shot, as I think maybe we are. I think we are. I think we're a good match. I can see it in your eyes right now. I can feel it. So if that is you, you want to have a good time.

I think it's, I think it's time Jimmy to sit back, clear the lungs. I don't care where you are, where you are. Shout it out the car window as loud as you can on the elliptical. Clear that gym out. That's right.

Scare the shit out of your pets in your house and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy shall we go let's go on a trip here we here we go we are going all the way oh man it's a banner day oh and all the way to go to new jersey today oh always a pleasure to go to new jersey i don't mind flying out of newark no it's fine i i really i really every time i go i feel like tony soprano it feels really good because every time you see they're flying anywhere it's at that goddamn airport yeah every time i pull up and see that little silhouette of the fucking welcome area, I feel fucking woke up this morning. Every morning. I wake up every morning.

Get myself a gun. I like when you're driving to New York. As soon as the first hill starts, that's welcome to New York. They were like, whenever the hills stop and it gets flat and marshy, just give that to them. That's what it seems like. So I feel bad that New Jersey got bad land. I love it. I just love that area.

Newark, that airport's fantastic. Jersey's actually not a terrible place. It gets a bad rap, but it's actually pretty nice if you drive around New Jersey. The people are terrible, let me tell you. No, Jersey people are cool, actually, because they're like New Yorkers, but they're also, they have a little bit of like, yeah, you know, it's Jersey, I get it. Like, they know, you know what I mean? They have the same kind of attitudes like Philly people.

They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, we're not the best. Fine, fine if we're not the best, but we're here, motherfucker. We're here. We're right here. You can't ignore us. You can't ignore us. We're right next door. You can't ignore us. I like it. I like that. I can see you Right here. You can't ignore us. You can't ignore us. Right next door. You can't ignore us.

I like it. I like that. I can see you from here. I love that attitude. This is in northwestern New Jersey up there. It's about an hour 21 down to the capital of Trenton, New Jersey. About 55 minutes to New York City. So very commutable.

This is a commutable town. About an hour and 55 minutes to Berlin, New Jersey. Was that our last one? Yes last new jersey episode an arrow for your thoughts which was a crazy episode oh yeah that was wild in the fucking yard in the yard that was very new jersey it was an express episode and it was wow it was as jersey as it gets it was it was like west virginia and New Jersey had a baby, and this episode came out. This is in Morris County, area code 973, motto, and really, this is all you need is this motto to draw the people in, the hub of Morris County. Oh, boy. Thank God.

I'm shopping for a house right now. Yeah. We need to start a business. It's a hub, Jimmy. Everything spins from right here. All of Morris County? Really? Holy shit.

History of this town. People, researchers have said that the earliest European settling happened here in about 1690. Sweet Christ. Yeah, this is old school. The early settlers were Dutch and English from Long Island. They came over like, over here. Oh here oh yeah all the way from long island what about this over here huh what do you say all right what do you look at this it's all right we good over here it's pretty good is that right all right let's well you know we'll set up shop i don't know i'll make i'll make a sauce sandwiches

we'll think about it you You know what I mean? It's not bad. I got, no, who you want? Eggplant parma? Right, I got you covered. That's what's going on. That sounds hilarious. Settlers from Long Island.

From Long Island. That's what I had to say. Also, Quakers from Philly. Yeah. They were like, it's getting too, it's a little too rough in the streets of Philly. We're going to move to a quieter. And then Germans, of course, because you've got to mix some Germans in. William Penn, who's Pennsylvania, and several other people began to take surveys and stake out lands in the area of Denville around 1715.

Sweet Jesus. Yeah. So they started by 1730. They're putting up forges and mills and all sorts of shit around along the Rockaway River. And, yeah, that's how it goes. There was a crane company there. The A and A.B. Crane and Co. Oh, no, it's not a crane company.

That's just the person's name. A.B. Crane and Co. Whatever company. If he doesn't make cranes, I think he's really missing the boat. He's blowing it. He's blowing it. And he had it. It's all right there for the taking.

My man. That's what I mean. So cut some trees, use some rope, get a pulley. Let's blowing it he's blowing it and he had it it's all right there for the taking my man that's what i mean so cut some trees use some rope get a pulley let's get it going do something for christ's sake they said the name denville can be traced to a den of wild animals located in the swampy regions along the denbrook and rockaway river the animals would i guess lay out in the sun on a knoll that juts out into the meadows, and that's where the local natives would hunt them. And they said that's the name, that's the basis for the names of Denville and Denbrook, which are another town. Wild pack animals living in holes, and what's a setup shop near them? Well, that's what everything was in the whole country. I mean, there's nobody here, so the animals were doing their thing.

Famous people from here. Well, Babe Ruth had a summer house here. So he hung out here sometimes. That's nice, I suppose. Babe Ruth fucking holidayed in Jersey? Apparently so. Yeah. I mean, well, he's from Baltimore and he plays in New York.

So, I mean, that's kind of right in the middle, honestly. So it was like, how about Jersey? And then I don't know which one this is, and I didn't bother to check. It's the oldest Jonas brother lives there. Oh, one of those. One of those. I don't know which one. He's still there now?

I guess so. I don't even know how many there are. So, whichever. There's three. There's definitely three. There's three? Okay, great. There's a younger one, and I think he's the two of them.

And then a middle one, probably? Yeah. Yeah. Is there a middle one, probably? Yeah. Yeah. Is there a middle one? I think an older one. You're using logic. I like this. I think an older one.

Not sure. Oh, man. Reviews. There's three of them. Three of them. Okay, three. So a trio of Jonas Brothers. Well, the oldest one is here.

Reviews of this town. Five stars. They love this place. Denville Township is a wonderful, caring community. We're lucky to have an amazing downtown filled with shops and eateries. I hate when it's

like you can tell the head of the local chamber of commerce writing it. This isn't an advertisement. It's a goddamn review. Residents support each other the community and the businesses it's just all one big circular circle jerk and it's everyone's happy as shit everybody's getting after it there are many activities for young and old alike whether a parade trips a duck race a polar plunge fundraising fundraising a farmer's market a harvest festival etc none of those things sound like fun for young

sound like a lot of shit they're really trying to make it a small town feel within an hour of the fucking biggest city ever which is how it is though in the east coast i mean that's you drive as soon as you hit yonkers it's all trees you know what I mean? Right past Yonkers, it's all trees here. So that's kind of how it is in either direction. Going south, it's the same way. You get out of the city. So, yeah, let's see. We have an easy access to most major highways and a train station for easy commutes wherever you're going.

In truth, we have it all! Exclamation point. Just a victorious review. Five stars. Oh boy, this is great. It never gets too hot or too cold here. I fucking don't believe it. Yeah, it does get cold there, and it does get super hot.

If it gets really hot in Philadelphia, and it gets really hot in New York City, and you're right between those places, it gets hot there. Let me tell you something. You're not at 6,000 feet elevation or something. There's not a giant mountain you're sitting on top of. It's not Switzerland. What are you talking about? Also, the other point is, I've been in New York.

It gets fucking cold. It's cold. Well, he goes on to say, the thunderstorms are never severe enough to cause damage. Natural disasters typically do not happen around here because they're more inland. So, yeah, they don't get the hurricane. There was a small tornado about seven years ago touching down and then going away, but haven't had one since. You don't need to write that.

They generally do go away. Well, that one's been spinning since 83. I'll tell you what. We're trying to get rid of it. We got big fans, and we all just tried to push it out that way. Everybody's blowing. We sent Bill up just to talk to it. He's good at talking, so we figured maybe he can convince it, just talk to it.

It didn't listen. Kid's been throwing rocks at it for 12 years, and it's eating throwing rocks it's crazy remember when chet drove his truck into it he said fuck it i'll take one for the team and he just it just sucked him right he's still spinning you can see hot chet you can see him spinning around up there he is again hot chet he comes around even ghost ride the whip into it he just drove it stuck with it he stuck up there we can't get him out he thought he's gonna ram it no that ain't happening because it's a ram he thought you know i'll just ram it out of here we that's yeah they go uh during spring uh during the spring it rains a decent amount really yeah is that how spring works rain Rain coats are a good idea. Thanks for telling me how to dress. Thanks for the fucking rain.

You asshole. He wrote that and pressed enter, huh? He just told us, this is how you should dress in the rain, in case you don't know. This is a review just for their own children, just for their own small children. Rain coats are a good idea. Wow. During the summer, is this all about weather? Anything else?

During the summer, there are scattered thunderstorms. Yes, that's the summer. And sun showers every so often. Oh, my God. If this person says sun comes out every morning, sets every night, I am going to find them and hunt them. The fall starts to get colder. The fall starts to get colder, Jimmy. You're writing this down?

This is pretty, this is heady stuff. This is going to be a test, sir. Oh, it gets better, this sentence. The fall starts to get colder, so jeans and long sleeves may be needed. No shit. Gets a little chilly out, you put some sleeves on? Wow, I've been been how i've been living my life hey if i get hungry should i eat something is this a weatherman turned apparel salesman what

is happening hey should i breathe in and then breathe out also or should i just hold it as long as the holes in your shoes are for shoelaces that's what they're telling us this is like a four-year-old wrote it. It's incredible. My dog likes ice cream, should be the next sentence. The past winter seasons haven't been too bad. Minor snowstorms are common. Not a word about jackets. Not a word about you should put a coat on.

Nothing about getting a shovel. None of that shit. No scarves or gloves? Come on, man. I need your help. Give me a break. I'm asking for help here. nothing about getting a shovel none of that shit no scarves or gloves come on man i need me a break i'm asking for help here uh four stars people in this area have been raised like me and i feel like i can connect with them gee you feel like you can connect with people you've known all your life what you're really stretching your horizons there i feel like i can really connect with people who are from the same place I am and raised exactly like me.

I don't know what it is, but I feel like a kinship with them. I feel like it has some stuff in common. Strange. Three stars. Okay, getting worse. It has a lot of character. Many restaurants, family-owned stores, and other cool stores reside in Denville. That means it's old, by the way.

Yeah, it does. It's kind of run down. There is so much to do, and most neighborhoods are kid-friendly. They tend to be. No kids in this neighborhood, unless it's a retirement community. The only downside to Denville is the amount of hate that goes on. People judge others based on income and wealth, and their children take on it as well. Take on it as well. Take on it as well.

I don't know. They messed that up. Plus, there's a lot of unwritten and archived crime. I don't know what that means. Unwritten crime? Archived? But overall, the physical parts of Denville are pleasing. So they said, nice place if it wasn't for the people, is what they're saying.

But that's interesting. And you get that with a lot. Anywhere commutable, you get the people who work in the city, make more money, and then you get the people who work and live. You can't afford to, yeah. Yeah. And they look down, they're a separate thing because that's where I live too, Poughkeepsie's like that as well. There's like kind of a separation of that kind of thing, whether you're a townie or you work in the city type of deal. So three stars here. There are many places around here for employment.

That's good. That's great. The mall is a big area with many job opportunities. Okay. What kind of employment are we talking about? There is a hospital nearby as well as many bankers and people involved in the food industry. So you can work at the mall, a bank, you can sell carl's jr it seems like that's your those are your options here you work at the bank you work in the food court or you work

at a macy's yeah that's that's strange and then three stars finally hurricanes or blizzards happen on occasion here and it's best to prepare ahead of time in terms of flooding and shovels. Okay, good. Now I know how to dress and I know what to prepare for. So thank fuck for these reviews. People in this town, 16,362. So pretty small town. Yeah. More female, 52.5% female. Median age is a little bit higher, 44.

It's a lot of suburban families is what you're getting here. That's what's going. 62% married, lower divorce rate, less single people with children, all the hallmarks of a suburban area, essentially. So race of this town, 81.7% white, 2% black, 8.3% Asian, 6.6% Hispanic. So that's what we got there. Religion, 60% of the people here are religious. And there will be no surprise at all when I tell you that 42.8% of the people here are Catholic. So as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North and 43% nearly of Catholics.

That's a lot. 1.6% Jewish. Oh. Oh. Hey. Oh, my God. It's been so long. Hava.

Nagila. Hava. Nagila. Nagila. Hava. Nagila. Nagila. I don't know the words.

Hey. Fuck yeah. My send dog over here. I love it. Yeah. My send dog over here. I love it. So politics of this town are pretty, pretty close, actually, in Morris County. Last election, 51.1 percent Democratic, 46.9 percent Republican, 2.0 percent independent. So it's pretty, pretty even their economy of this town. Unemploy unemployment rate is

about average but the median household income here is high median household income here one hundred five thousand one hundred thirty five dollars a year holy shit so you're getting the twice as much almost twice as much as the national average so you're getting they have so much money getting a lot of people that work in new york city make a good living and then they live out here median home cost though because cost of living normally 100 here it's 128 so it's a little more expensive median home cost here 439 600 a little on the pricey side god a little on the pricey side so if we've convinced you god damn it yeah to hey you know what bring a sweater and some sleeves and jeans. But other than that, I feel like you'll be good.

We have for you the Denville, New Jersey Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,926 a month. Oh, my God. Which, compared to New York City, though, that's not bad. You know what I mean? Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath. I don't know what it is about New Jersey, but they don't like to include square footage for some reason. That's weird.

I don't know why. It looks like it's about 1,500 square feet, though. Kind of your typical North Jersey house. It's one of those. It's just kind of regular family house, three bedroom, two bath. You can see a couple of delinquent kids hanging out on the front lawn

with denim jackets on with like an REO Speedwagon patch on the back or something. Whatever goes on in New Jersey in the 70s, I'm picturing. That sort of thing. Not great. We'll put it that way.

Not a great house, but fine. Fine house. $389,000. That's kind of your... It's not so bad. That's your average. Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath. It looks a little bigger, though.

Looks like it's maybe 2,000 square feet or so. It has... It's such a strange thing. It's decorous, like Southwestern style, which makes no sense. In northern New Jersey. I don't know. Maybe that was big in the early 90s everywhere, so maybe they just haven't redecorated since the early 90s.

That turquoise and there was a lot of that Southwestern style was big in the 90s. Really? Oh, in the early 90s. I guess you were in Arizona, so it was just always there but yeah the rest of the in the rest of the country people started really going nuts with the turquoise and all that shit in like 19 and shit like oh god yeah like 1992 ish oh really oh it was fucking huge here huge so um there's a a weird house i gotta say there's a bowl of apples on the floor for some reason. I don't know if their dog eats apples. 600 horse.

650,000. Maybe. I don't know. Holy shit. 650 for that. Then eight bedroom, nine bath, 6411 square feet of really ugly house. It's fucking ugly. It hasn't been. It's tacky.

It looks like where Henry Hill went when they got the white Christmas tree. And good fellas. When he got out of jail, he's like, let's get packed, Karen. We're moving. And then they end up with the white. That's the type of place it is. It's like very cheesy. But from 1992, the kitchen's all black and white, but 92 style black and white.

Staircase has mirrors on it. It's fucking weird. What the fuck? Very weird. $1,324,900 it is 1.3 for 6,000 square feet yes 6,500 almost but you have to it's you need a complete redo it's gonna cost you half a million dollars at minimum to start fucking work making this place it looks like shit so things to do here.

Okay. The Fleetwood Lights holiday display. What is that? This is a guy's house that he decorates for Christmas, and it's on their things to do list, like right at the top. It's on Fleetwood Street or something? Well, let's hear him describe it. For my day job, I'm an IT professional that's been in the industry for over 20 years. My wife works as a librarian at a New Jersey public school, and my daughter Mia is in elementary school.

And she's in the Girl Scouts and all this type of shit. She goes on to talk about the kids' little league team. This guy goes on. Oh, this display had started as a friendly challenge between two coworkers. In 2014, I was challenged to a light off by one of my peers at work. And looking for something different, I was introduced to RGB lighting, which allows you to change the colors of bulbs and add a twist to your standard lighting displays. In 2015, we had set up a mega tree, which adds graphics and animation to the traditional lighting. Holy Jesus. Oh, my God.

He's doing that god he's doing that because he's an it guy he's computer programming the lights to do he's doing all sorts of crazy shit so yeah that's what's going on there is this crazy light display in this guy's yard uh we came to the area in 2008 and always had an interest in decorating for christmas it's a weird hobby. I love decorating. We're already all decorated up, but we're not fucking around. I love it, and I can't wait to do it this year. But this is too much.

I can't do this. November 1st, Sarah starts pulling shit out of the basement. She's like, all right, here we go. It's Christmas. I love Christmas, but in my HOA, they don't let you decorate until after Thanksgiving. And who the fuck wants to decorate the day after Thanksgiving? Who wants to do that? That's true.

Also, you could probably challenge that because you could say that you're, that is. You get religious freedom. Yeah, yeah. You could say some shit like that, I'm sure. That's what I'm sure someone would do. So I could say anything religious in that motherfucker and they're going to, they're going to cave. You could, you could shoot at the tornado and they'd be like, good idea.

Let me try. I got a bigger caliber. It's fine. Nobody cares. It's wild there. It's wild there. So there you go. That's what there is to do.

There's also a jazz festival with people I've never heard of headlined by the Walter Trout Band. So I don't know what the fuck that's about. Oh, Waltie Trout? Old Walt Trout's coming to town. Crime rate in this town. What we are interested in here, the property crime is about half of the national average. So it's pretty safe. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is about one-third of the national average.

So this place is safe. I mean, an hour from Manhattan and safe as fuck. So not bad. That said, let's talk about a murder. What do you say, Jimmy? Let's do this. To do this, we have to get in the time machine, but we don't have to go back too far. We've had a lot of 70s cases.

We even had that early 60s one lately. Today, we're going back to 2009 to talk here. 2009, 2010. So everything that you have now, they had also. so you could text there was fucking facebook i think instagram started the next year you're good yeah everybody's doing fun there's iphones now everybody's doing fine people are trading in their blackberries at this

moment in time people are giving their children their ipod because they got an iphone that's what's happening and you can call me on that when you want to, on the Wi-Fi. Only if you're on Wi-Fi, though. Otherwise, it'll do nothing. Otherwise, go fuck yourself. I'm not paying for a phone. You have no one to talk to. Tell you what.

Leave the house, you're very bored. Who do you talk to? Who do you know? You say to kids. You know me. What are you, nine? You don't know anybody. You don't know anybody.

You don't have friends. You don't have business deals you need to further you don't have like your plans for later your plans are what i tell you is happening you can call me to find out when i'll be home to talk to you that's it and and tell you what your plans are because i'm your mother or father or anybody so let's talk about some people let's start out with a couple here let me say a nice couple uh first up anthony f novelino oh oh fucking anthony over here right i guarantee that f is frank it's probably frank yeah anthony frank novelino especially if he's from jersey but this point oh yeah too he was born like right when frank sinatra was coming out so maybe he's from Jersey but this point oh yeah too he was born like right when Frank Sinatra was coming out so maybe he's named after Frank Sinatra I don't know either way

and it's northern Jersey you never know there's a lot of kids from northern Jersey born in the 40s and 50s named Frank for Frank Sinatra because he was from Hoboken so he at this in 2009 he's 62 years old he's working years old.

He's working as a security guard at this moment. And he's kind of upset about it because he apparently had a different job where he worked in some kind of factory where he was a production supervisor for a long time and was making good money. And then when they do layoffs, they lay off the older guys who are the higher salaries. Because they don't want to figure you out. Bastards. And that's what they did. And he was kind of booted out of a job. So he got a job as a security guard

making $10 an hour instead. Oh, poor fucking Andy. So now he's 62. And I've worked plenty for $10 an hour. I've worked for $5.15 an hour. So no one's sniping. I'm just saying. I worked for $2 $10 an hour. I've worked for $5.15 an hour. So no one's sniping. I'm just saying. I've worked for $2.13 an hour.

I've done that plenty waiting tables. But I made way more money in tips than I did at the job where I made $5.15 an hour straight. You know what I mean? But when you're 62 fucking years old and you've worked for 40-something years, and then they go, oh, we're going to pay you the same as teenagers make, then you're going to feel like shit at that point. You know what I mean? It hurts.

That hurts. You wasted your life. Wasted fucking all kinds of time. And when you're 62, it's not like you're like, well, I'll just go back to school or I'll go start a business. You're 62. I mean, it's possible. Viable to the workforce.

It's possible, but it's not. When you're done, you're not the most attractive person to employers when you're 66 years old you know that's all i mean uh so that happened to my dad he was laid off at 63 years yeah what do you do that's kind of what happened to him i think about 60 he got laid off this guy so that's that he got he got cancer and took a leave of absence and they had to do some layoffs. And they're like, get rid of the cancer guy first. Let's cut that cancer out if you know what I'm talking about. What do you say? Let's get rid of the tumor.

You know what I'm talking about? He's cutting it out and so are we. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen

alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

So he ends up as a security guard for Randolph Services, and he was assigned to a security detail at United Jewish Communities of Metro West New Jersey in Whippany. So that's where he ends up, and that's where he's working on a daily basis. He's got a lot of friends in town, too. They've been here a long time. We'll talk about it because he's got a wife and everything else. His friend Frank Castora. Hey, it's Frank.

I'm Frank Castora. This is my friend Anthony over here. This is great. I'm going to have so much fun. His little name is Frank, too. This is wonderful. Yeah. Well, his name's Frank, too. Oh, this is wonderful. Yeah. Well, his name's Frank Frank Castora.

That's his name. Francis Francis Castora. Oh, Frankie Frank. Oh, Frankie Frank. He says that Anthony was good friends with him for a long time. They were in the American Legion and the Rotary Club together. So they're both vets. Yeah, they're both vets.

We'll talk about that. He's been in the military. Yeah. And so that's what I mean. This guy's been in the military. Judging by his age, if he's 63 then, so he was born in what? That would make him- No, that would be in 2009.

In 2009? So he was born in 49. So that would put him in pretty decent Vietnam range. Oh, yeah. If he was in the military, he was probably in Vietnam. So in that range. And then he gets a job. He works.

He goes up the ladder. Is a supervisor and all that. And then gets shit canned. And they're like, here's $10 an hour. So he's not exactly having a great time at ten dollars an hour so he's oh he's not exactly having a great time at the moment but he's probably furious tons of uh but ton does all these activities this guy frank said that um he was even a pallbearer at his at frank's father's funeral and they can't and he came over and held him up for him you know what i mean so yeah he said they

they spoke frequently and they would kind of talk to each they would sound sounding boards for each other like you know when they were upset about something there was a guy they could go to and go ah i got problems this fucking broad or this one over here the old man situation and they can commiserate together i'm sure at four o'clock in the morning in a diner or something yeah like two beers each because three they can't walk they can't walk and probably afford it either at this point. He does save some money up, as we'll talk about. He's got a little nest egg.

He's got a wife also, does Anthony. Judith is her name. Her maiden name was Luzzi, L-U-Z-Z-I, probably Luzzi, Lutzi even. Judith Novellino is her name. She's a year younger than him. They've been married 37 years by 2009. Jesus. Yeah, that's what I mean.

This is like, you know. So impressive. 37 years. They have two kids, Christina and Anthony. Anthony's the younger one. Anthony's about 25 now. Christina's about 30, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. Anthony's about 25 now.

Christine is about 30, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. She, Judith, is a teacher at Morris Catholic School, Morris Catholic High School in Denville. She's been a teacher there for 30 years or 25 years at this school. She's been a teacher for 30 years. She teaches English, French, and English as a second language there. And she also works as the school librarian as well. Makes you want to go strangle the fucking businessman that laid this guy off. He even waited.

You know what I mean? He fucking was in the service. He waited his whole goddamn life here working away. He waited to have children even until he was fucking in his 30s. Yeah, until they were married a few years settled bought a house together she's a teacher the most fucking yes consistent job on the planet it makes you want to strangle a guy with his own fucking tie you prick looking at the bottom line this anthony makes a couple bucks too much we could get we could probably get one of the younger guys to do it for half this right i think so you know that's how it went you know it's how it went i hate men in suits right does that piss you off when you hear that

yeah he came in in his work boots upset you know that sucks looking at numbers and not giving a fuck about people is so gross that's that's kind of how it goes and also this was at during the 2007 economic collapses when he lost his job so god damn tons of people lost their jobs during that that was just a whole fucking it was a free fall economic free fall so all right not good essentially house isn't worth shit either at At that moment, no. Everything went in the toilet. So that was tough. Everybody loves Judith. She is called a wonderful mentor. They say that for the kids, the school has a lot of international students.

And those kids she's really good with. They said she's like a second mother to those kids because she's teaching English as a second language. So she gets to know those people. The principal says she has a very loving nature with students and friendly with everybody. Just a lovely presence in the library and the halls. So, you know, there you go. They love they love her. She's great. She accepted the new position of teaching English as a second language a couple of years before that. And she she liked being able to connect with these kids from around the world.

She thought that was cool and thought it was fun. So it's weird here because they buy this house here. It's on Cliffside Trail. The address is 16 Cliffside Trail is the house in Denville. And they move in there. They've been here for at least 25 years, almost 30 years. So it seems like they moved here when they had their daughter is probably the progress of actions here

because they lived in Newark before that. So that's what you do. You live in Newark and then you'd have a kid and go, oh, we got to move out to the suburbs. So that's kind of how they did it. So their neighbors, Lynn Dexter, and there's a guy named Vlatza Popasil. They're a couple of neighbors. Dexter called Anthony, quote, the mayor of Cliffside Trail.

Every street has a mayor. You know what I mean? He's that guy on this street. The bane of your existence. The bane of my existence. The bane of my existence. Friendly guy. He wants to talk. I don't know.

We have nothing natural to talk about. Remember you went to a car show or something with your dad? And you're like, he's just being the mayor. Oh, no. My dad, I heard about this. There was some in Fishkill, New York there, because that's where he grew up. There was like a big, like a festival there in the summer it was like right after kind of COVID was dying

so it was like this big thing outdoors so everybody was there my dad just stands in one spot and knows everybody and just stands there and talks to 300 people for a couple hours and he's like alright let's get out of here and you're like what the fuck was that

he knows everybody it's wild my favorite story because your face was like i was like oh you went to that thing with your dad and he's like you know he's the fucking mayor he's the mayor it's crazy he should just run for mayor he'd probably win he knows everybody it's fucking silly it's really silly i mean good for him i've been i since i moved back to new york it was almost two years now i have not run into one person i know back here not one the only person i've run into since i've been here that i grew up with was in Orlando at our show. That was it. It's the only time. Oh, yeah.

California kindergarten or whatever. I've known her for my whole life. That was it. Yeah. Not here, though. Never around. It's so strange. Isn't that weird?

Yeah. So anyway, he's the mayor of Cliffside Trail, which that's very familiar. And they said he's outgoing, friendly. He's always out working in the garden. So if you walk by with your dog, how you doing judith and this one and that one he's one of those people so friendly everybody likes him uh they live there it's a split level house on a winding street that overlooks indian lake so it's a very nice area it's a super nice area here everybody in the neighborhood this is one of those neighborhoods where people live here forever because they it's just a and they give a shit about everything around them it's awesome

yeah it's very everybody takes care of everything um they say that he um he visits his friends all the time he's very social anthony goes out visiting gonna go see this guy having lunch with that one um goes and uh he has the lakeland Flyers Homing Pigeon Club he's a member of. What? He's a member of the Homing Pigeon Club, locally even. I assume to be a member,

you've got to have it too, right? I would assume. You can't just show up and be like, I just like to watch birds, man. They'd probably be like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah. I just like watching them flap.

You know what I mean? There's something about it. Why are you rubbing that seam on your jeans, weirdo? What do you think they would feel like flapping around in your pants? What do you think that would feel like? Would you think it would be good? I think they'd slap each thigh with each wing. Trying to fly away, but you can't.

It's what's in there, isn't it? I feel like a wing job would be hot right now. What do you think? You guys lined me up for a wing job would be hot right now. What do you think? You guys lined me up for a wing job or what here? I just feel like it'd be kind of nice, you know, soft feathers. Keep laughing. That's creepy. We are creepy right now talking about people being hot for pigeons.

That's not us. That's some guy at the pigeon club. But that's what he's into. He goes to the American Legion. He goes to the other thing. He's, you know, the Rotary Club. He's in a pigeon club. He's got lots of friends.

He buys and sells stocks also. He likes to buy and sell some stocks. Nothing huge, but just, you know, it's kind of a hobby of his. Plane around, yeah. Likes to drive his car, too. Loves his car. What's his car? It's a 92 black convertible Mazda Miata.

So, this 62-year-old man driving around in this fucking 25-year-old girl's car. What has happened? 92? And he just, ah, look at it it's beautiful 17 year old convertible miata and it says pride and joy he fucking loves this thing hilarious that's like the that car's only that's like the first or second year oh yeah yeah yeah it's like it's a piece of shit by now yeah they didn't even work the bugs out yet like he's just like i don't care really round one yeah it's just like a little tiny it's like an app like a like a an apple

computer mouse that's what it looks like i'm showing all the mine see jimmy it's a fucking two-seater little girl's car it's a two-seater apple mouse. iMac mouse. That's all it is. That's hysterical. That's what he's rocking. That's his favorite thing. Oh, man, is he proud of his 92 Miata. He loves it. I just picture him, too, like, because he's got the convertible, so I figure it's probably like a mid or later life crisis thing.

So I picture him driving, and it's like 43 degrees, mid or later life crisis thing so i picture him driving and it's like 43 degrees and he's got the fucking top down yeah and he's like how you doing yeah he's talking everybody uh glad they salted the road all right yeah glad the roads are salted as flies up into his eyes snow banks go by next to him on the side of the road. Oh, my God. 92. Does he have one?

Did he do a motor swap and he's got a giant 454 in it or some shit? Yeah, he put it up on some blocks in the front yard there and he was really working on it for a while. Really tubbed the ass in. Put some giant meats under the back. The way you're looking at this is completely different from what it is. It's actually the opposite. You know how he acquired this car? How did he get it?

Couldn't have been less of like going to replace the motor, swap it out, and really get some horsepower in there. He bought it from a widow in the senior housing facility that he worked as a security guard in. So some 90-year-old lady was selling her Miata because she probably can't drive at night anymore, and he was like, pride and joy. I got two grand for you. Yep. And there he is, and he loves it. And it was probably in great condition if some old lady had it.

Oh, yeah. It was probably mint. It probably had 14,000 miles on it. It's the old lady had it. Oh, yeah. It was probably mint. It probably had 14,000 miles on it. It's the best car to get. Oh, yeah. That's who you buy it from. So he does that. Also, there's nothing but positive about Anthony at this point and Judith.

The two of them are just a positive couple. Everybody likes him. She's at the school. Everybody likes her. He's the mayor, practically. Everybody likes her. He's the mayor, practically. So he also has one very strange beef, though.

He's a weird guy, Anthony, when it comes to these little things. He has a weird beef with a cafe owner. Oh? A diner, a guy named Alan Wilson, who says he's had confrontations with Anthony Novolino over the past four years. Because Novolino would come into his restaurant and bother his customers without spending a dime what now i don't know what that means i don't know what he was bothering them about i don't know if he was like talking about pigeons or something or i don't know if he was miata for sale yeah i don't know if he went in there kind of like the mayor and just like was like chatting with people because he knows them like like walked in and he was like, hey, this one, hey, that one, and just kind of went around talking to people.

And this this guy got mad because he didn't buy anything. Or I don't know what I don't know what or if he was going in there fucking with people. It seems out of character for him to go around messing with people. It's just weird. It's just weird. But this Wilson guy said that Novolino was an, quote, angry little man who also, quote, frequently pried into other people's business. Oh, I wonder what that means. Mind your business, Anthony.

What the fuck are you doing? Oh, Jesus Christ. How are they doing? Worry about yourself. Worry about yourself. All right. Don't worry about how the Reuben is today. It's fine. Okay.

Wilson goes on to say, I had to kick him off the property. It got so bad. I was going to get a restraining order against him or file charges. I want to know what this is. All it is, from what I understand, he was in there talking to people. And when this guy said, hey, you're going to fucking buy something or not, Novolino was probably told to go fuck himself. And then they had a beef after that. That's all I can imagine.

It escalated because he's the only guy he seems to have any beef with, which is just weird. Yeah, because everybody at the pigeon club down at the homing pigeon club, everybody there says he's a good hearted man who's always eager to help out anybody friends or strangers so i don't know how you can how do you you know justify those two together how do you merge the alan wilson's version of him and everybody else's i don't understand tells me you approached my guy the wrong way that's what i mean i think i think maybe you went up to him a little strong maybe you should should have. Maybe have a look in the mirror, friend. Yeah, maybe you embarrassed him in front of his friends. You ever think of that? You say, hey, what are you doing?

You call me a fucking deadbeat? You don't think? You think I can buy a fucking bagel? How dare you? Call me a deadbeat in front of my friends? Is that what you're doing? Sonny, I mean. Sorry, more Goodfellas talk here.

So he said one guy, Joe Fornaroto over here. Of course it is. Joey Fornaroto. He said of Novolino, he said that Novolino sometimes even helped him out in his yard. He'd come over to his house to help him out if he had a big job. Really? That's what a good fucking guy this guy is. He said he also installed windows on his pigeon coop for him as a favor.

He put windows in my pigeon coop? Nice guy, right? That's a hell of a guy. Nice guy. put windows in my pigeon coop nice guy right that's a hell of a guy nice guy just don't ask him why he's not buying anything because he'll apparently not be fun don't call him cheap for christ's sake i guess not uh a guy named tony of course said that he gave anthony some uh pigeons to get them started on his pigeon hobby in the early 90s. Gifted him the hobby. Tony gave Novolino the pigeons because he was interested in them.

He said, well, here, you can take a couple to start with. I got a bunch of pigeons there. And then they did the pigeon thing. Yeah, he did the pigeon thing together. This Tony guy said, when I was sick, he helped train my birds. He was a good-hearted soul. He liked to help everybody. I believe it.

So that's interesting. Now, come 2010 here, there is – this sounds like a glorious little home. He's got a nice family. The kids are out. They're empty nesters. He's clipping. He's driving around in his convertible Miata and hanging out in the garden. That's what he worked his whole life for.

Yeah, fucking around. Got a lot of friends, and she knows doing her job, and she's happy in it and feels fulfilled with the kids and all that sort of thing. By 2010, there's a for sale sign up at the house. Oh, shit. Yeah, and you wonder why. Why are they selling it? What could possibly be going on? I mean, is it just because downsizing like some people do?

Maybe they're moving to Florida. Who knows? Hey, that's very common. They're moving somewhere warm like retired people do. Maybe they're moving to Florida. Who knows? That's very common. They're moving somewhere warm like retired people do when they retire. Nope, they're selling it because they are going to get a divorce. Oh, no. Yep.

Judith and Anthony are going to get a divorce. In 2009, this all starts. One of the big, big, big points of contention between this couple is their son their son anthony jr here um yeah which just makes me think of the sopranos even more because it's aj it's fucking aj what's he fighting at school is he ripping his shirt what's he doing much like the real life anthony jr um because that kid got in trouble too uh the actor God. The actor. Not just Anthony Jr. Owen is real. Yeah. The character, the actor, and this guy.

All of them in the story that we have. If your name is Anthony Jr. in any aspect of your life, you're going to be all fucked up. I apologize for that. You're going to be a mess. You're AJ. AJ. Apparently, one of the main sources, though, of strife in this marriage is that AJ, here, Anthony, young Anthony, gets arrested a lot oh boy is

aj using drugs oh yeah he's using a lot of drugs and he gets arrested to the tune of like 15 times in the last few years that's how 25 he's 25 that's the type of that's he's like a the local guy who always gets arrested that's him so He's in the system now. It's not going to stop. Oh, it just keeps going. He's got a huge drug problem, and that's the main issue. He's had a huge drug problem since he was younger, and it's spun out of control to the point of him constantly getting arrested, being in jail. And that is a big source of contention is between Judith and Anthony is differing views on how to deal with this problem. How do we deal with it?

Yeah. Do you send them to rehab? I don't know who thinks what, but somebody thinks we got to embrace him, send him to rehab. Somebody thinks we got to let the system take care of him. Maybe if he goes to prison, it'll fucking straighten him out. That's a terrible choice. Yeah. I don't know who decides what.

I'm going to say probably the teacher says, let's him, and the father probably says it'll be fine. Get him in there. It's fine. Let him be in there and rot. He'll find some other guineas to get along with. It'll be fine in there. It'll be all right. Here's the thing about 15 arrests.

There's going to be a 16th. There's going to be a – well, we'll talk about it. There's a 17th, as a matter of fact, by the end of this episode. There's a lot going on. So 2009, they're getting divorced, the couple, Judith and Anthony. They're getting divorced. Judith files for divorce in September 2009. She accuses him in the papers of threatening to dissipate hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets to protest the divorce action.

So basically she's doing this so he's going to spitefully try to hide money on her so she can't get money from him. She estimates in the documents his net worth at $800,000. Holy shit. He's done great. Yeah, he socked away a couple of bucks here. So after a little while this goes on, she ends up renting her own apartment in Parsippany. She goes and gets her own place

and she would go to Denville once in a while when he wasn't there. When he's at work, she'd go to pick up some more personal belongings. She was kind of moving back and forth. She's moving in kind of a little bit at a time. She was living there, but then she'd go.

If you live in a house for 30 years, it's really hard to just pack everything up and go. It's going to take a while to come back and, oh, yeah, this and that. I've lived in mine for two years. It would take me, Jesus, I can't imagine. Yeah, it would be so hard. At least three weeks to move out of that fucking place. It would be so goddamn hard. So with her, though, this is what she's doing.

Now, there's been a lot of acrimonious exchanges between these two during this divorce. Like it got contentious and then it seems like it's going amiable for a minute and then it'll get contentious again. Judith Novolino had put this in, quote, two family members who are both trained psychologists have had recent correspondent with Anthony. They both have warned me that he is potentially dangerous. She then goes on to say throughout a 37 year marriage, I've been subject to the defendant's verbal abuse, his destruction of my personal belongings and his obsessive and controlling personality. She said that she paid most of the household bills without contribution from him and took out a loan without his without his help to pay for their daughter's wedding. Oh, so that's that's what she's saying. She's like, he does nothing.

She then goes on to say, quote, I have no money. I have no bank account and my checking account is exhausted from paying bills so that's her saying i need money from him and uh you know i've used all my money on the household shit well he saved it so now he needs to pay me some money back which is fair that's not a fair fucking uh relationship and partnership no i mean it's also a one-sided divorce filing though so. So, I mean, it's also what's his document say? You know what I'm saying? So, and I'm not saying anybody's right or wrong. I'm saying in a

marriage, especially, there is two fucking sides to the story. They're very different is all. Each one is very self-serving. That's what I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. One could be completely 100% right and one could be completely 100% wrong. It's not – that's fine.

I'm just saying it's whatever. So in correspondence here, she also refers to – there's an incident of – this is very strange – of her lawyer saying that he was allegedly stalking her and pestering some of her law firm staff as well. What the fuck is that about? I don't know. Like calling them being angry. I don't know what. Seems like real nice guy. Don't want to piss them off type of thing apparently.

It really starts coming. So here's some other weird things. A couple of other strange things here is a neighbor of theirs said that she lived across the street for about 10 years and she described Judith as a sincerely nice person. Anthony, as a regular neighbor who in the past had brought groceries to her and other neighbors who were ill or too old or he'll just go out and go, what can I get you at the store and come back and get your groceries? Like, seems like a nice guy. what can I get you at the store and come back and get you groceries? Like, it seems like a nice guy. Um,

she says, you know, uh, up until 2010, she, uh, you know, had,

uh, talked to him. He's always outside the house. And apparently nobody really ever saw Judith outside of school. They said like she was never outside. She would never come to social events or anything like that either. So during she would go to school, come home and then just be locked in the house. That's it. Yeah. I don't

know if she did things, but nobody that knows them really saw her very often. They said she was just kind of kept to herself. So, I mean, I don't know if that's just, she's busy or she had papers to grade and who knows what the hell she's doing in there. So, week we're talking june 2010 now the divorce is going through and uh this neighbor said that quote about anthony quote he approached me and wanted me to see his house he said his ex-wife would come in the house and take stuff and soil the house and he wanted me to see okay um she said i was hesitant at first but little by little he led me to the front door. He said, come look what she did. And she said she only took a few steps into the house.

And she said before, she said she'd seen enough. She said it was super messy. Quote, he said she tried to portray, she tried to portray as a nice person, but this is what she really is. She's a pig. That's what he told her. Apparently, this house is a fucking disaster inside. It's filthy and gross and packed with shit, and it's dirty, and there's piss all over the couch. What? Yeah, there's a all over the couch what yeah it's

there's a lot going on in this house that we haven't scratched on yet here luckily it's not well on the outside but luckily it's inside yeah luckily it's not a scratch and sniff because it would but apparently yeah the outside of the house is fine you get inside it's a shit show in there i mean wow this lady said she took three steps in the house and realized that's enough I'm not going any further it's a mess in here and that's what he said she did this she tries to act like she's real nice but she's a pig look at her and

so this well another neighbor said that he didn't seem angry at that time but he was acting different and appeared quote definitely a little more emotional which they just finalized their divorce. That all makes sense. So a lot of it was Anthony, the son,

with the drug use and his arrests and all that sort of thing. He also, a lot of it is Anthony's father, Anthony Sr., complaining that Judith was sloppy and would tell all the neighbors and the friends she's sloppy and had quote soiled the living room couch with urine how do you now i get i don't know apparently she had some kind of i don't know if it's a medical condition some sort of incontinence or if she's like gets mad at him and pees on the couch i don't know what's going on but just lifts her leg or if he pees on the couch and says she i have no idea if he might get drunk and pee on the couch and say

she must have did it again who knows we have a piss couch one way or another this couch is pissy and uh that's crazy not cool um is is an so junior is he living in newark back where they were at or where is he at he's in this town kid oh he's running all around yeah the kids running all around yeah getting arrested all over the place so they even they have a there's a photo this is weird a photo of the piss couch is is mounted above the couch what so there's a couch and then a picture of that couch right above the couch. In case you forget what you're sitting on. In case you look at it and go, that's pretty cool.

I'd like to see it smaller, though. They have that covered for you. I don't know what the fuck that's for. That's what I mean. That's a weird thing to put up, right? Fascinating choice. I'm going to just take pictures of my furniture and then hang photos of them above the furniture.

Here's my TV. Above it, if you'd like to look, there's a picture of the TV. Like a museum does that shit, right? A museum has a picture and then the actual thing, and it describes it. There's a little plaque that gives the history of it. This is our piss couch. Here's the history.

I bought this tv from amazon in 2014 oh it was a banner day here at the petrogallo house i'll tell you something oh prime day it was something so june 8th 2010 is when the divorce is finalized that's the actual final day and um like i said she has own apartment. She's been traveling back and forth between the two of them. She said that one of the neighbors said that Anthony came over to her house just to tell. He just like stopped over and he goes, just want to let you know, divorce is final. Oh. Okay.

Thanks, Anthony. And then he like goes to the next house. Just letting you know i don't know why i didn't do that you figure no i mean you want to shout it from the rooftops but you do it you do it all at once you don't go individually to tell everybody you've ever met tell each stripper that gives you a lap dance yeah exactly otherwise you're telling some old lady just tell one. It'll gossip through the neighborhood.

Don't worry. They'll know. Give it time. It's a slow burn. Yeah, totally. Then one of the neighbors talked to Judith at one point and said that judging from what Judith said and the way everything looked, the divorce appeared to be amiable. An amiable arrangement where they're, you know. That is nice.

An amiable arrangement where they're, you know. That is nice. So the settlement here is they do a property settlement without having to go through a trial. Because no matter what they end up splitting, it's going to be a lot less to split after a trial. Because the lawyers are going to suck out a third of that shit. So why do that? So apparently this pact has provisions for Anthony to equally split several retirement accounts with his wife and, uh, he gets the house, but he has to buy out her half of the house. So he has to pay her. That's ugly.

Yeah. So he has to pay her. He's going to give her half of his liquid money and then whatever the house is worth, he's going to give her half of that out of that money also. Yes. Painful, man. That's a lot of money. Yeah. It's going to give her half of that out of that money also. Yes. That's painful, man. That's a lot of money. Yeah. It's going to be like 400 grand altogether he's got to give her.

It's half of everything he's got. So half of what they got. They were married for 37 years. It's half of us. Yeah. That's 20. 40 years. It's together.

Yeah. 40 years. It's everything you have is together. Give me a goddamn break. Jesus Christ. You've done nothing without each other in 40 years. Get a fuck out of here are you kidding me you were 20 when you met this you were married in 1969 you were married when jimmy hendrix was alive think about that like you can't is that the summer of love is that it i think it was 68 the summer 68 it was close

yeah you probably met during the summer of Love, for Christ's sake. There you go. Yeah, totally. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. One thing not listed on his asset, his asset page was his 1992 Mazzda miata it's off limits we could split the house listen to me we could split the house we could split the piss furniture i don't care you could even have one of the kids free and clear but you will not lay one fucking piss soiled finger on my mazdaata. It will not happen. It's a Miata, not a Wiata. Not a Wiata. It's a Miata, not a Yuata.

You got me? It's not an Asata. It's not an Asata. I like a Wiata. I think that's a good one right there. It's not a Mazda Wiata. That was great. So that's perfect.

But he doesn't list it. It's mine. It's a me-ata. I'm taking it. So, yeah, he has to pay her within 60 days $110,000. Within 60 days. That's her buyout of the house. That's her part of the house because it just crashed in value.

So that's her part of the house. because they just crashed in value. So that's her part of the house. And also they accumulate, they have to split all of their property down the middle too. This, and I'm talking, this is wild. It really, when they're talking about splitting the property,

they're not just like, you get the furniture and I get this. They have everything documented down to the value of each thing, down the tchotchkes around the house, things like that. That's a contentious divorce, including the entire collection of glass animal figurines. Is it included in this? They've collected like glass animal figurines.

And Judith gets the entire collection. This was negotiated. Lawyers, people went to law school and then sat down and negotiated people's glass animal figurine collection. He gets one figurine. She keeps the whole collection except for one of them,

which he apparently needed to have, which was the pig. He needed to keep the pig. Okay okay that's in writing in a divorce settlement she gets all the glass animal figurines except the pig which belongs to anthony okay he loves pigs oh he does um now when when the divorce is final he's he's kind of angry at this i think because he's got to pay all this money. Dude, it hurts. It's a general, it's an anger that they're just, you know, he's angry.

So he left a note at his father's house here, a sarcastic note at his dad's house on June 12th. His dad lives in Belleville. And the note said, thank you for always taking her side. And he believed that his family supported judith more in the divorce than him so he was like he was mad at them so he also um he goes around this is the other thing too he's like oh yeah you think she's so great he got has this thing with like she's not so great like everybody thinks she is let me show you this he's got pictures tons of pictures of the house so he could show everybody how she keeps the house he lives there too by the way you can

grab a grab a fucking broom but he's like look at what she does this is all her this is all her stuff and he's got all these pictures that he's like showing all these people photo album of a filthy house yes he even told a neighbor that yeah she wants to fuck with me like showing all these people. Photo album of a filthy house. Yes. He even told a neighbor that, yeah, she wants to fuck with me. Look at all these pictures. There's her piss couch. There's all this shit. He even told the neighbor, I have a videotape from 20 years ago of her fucking.

And I bet she wouldn't want anybody to see that. I'll use that against her in the divorce if I have to. If she doesn't give me the pig, I will show show everyone i feel like that's how he got the pig he threatened to he threatened to blackmail her with the tape and so he she was like fine he can keep the pig not the alligator though that's mine he's gonna revenge porn the woman he's gonna revenge porn her from a videotape from the 80s so unbelievable some other time whenever the fuck it was which is obviously a disgusting threat to make so fucking him though right i don't even know it all it says in documents is that it was an intimate video it was a fuck

video of her but i don't know if it was with him or if it was just her like yeah might have been him making a video of her you know what i'm saying that's the other thing shower vacation yeah one of those deals are you know hey put on a little show for me who knows what the fuck's going on so the camera be filthy yeah so he's talking about the videotape he's talking about you know these pictures and everything uh frank castoro over here his buddy his neighbor over there he says quote he wasn't happy about the divorce he's not happy this fucking guy he's grumpy about it he said quote he said she wasn't getting the house

he was angry he's like she's not getting this house that's one thing the Miata the pig and this fucking house are mine I don't care about nothing else and it's so filthy why do you give a fuck about the house? He wants it because then she can't have it.

I think it's just gotten to the point where they're fighting. That's horrible. When you're parsing which glass fucking animal figurines you get and which ones I get, you've gone past the point of logic. It's a great point. As adults. I hate that house. I was like, keep it, bitch. I don't want it.

Yep. It's the when Harry met Sally thing where you see that coffee table. You don't even fucking like that coffee table. In five years, you'll be fighting her to the death over that coffee table because I don't even care if I don't like it. She's not getting it. That's what it is. And that's how people are. It's just human nature.

So he said the neighbor said he would talk to about how unhappy he was about the divorce. That's Kastora's wife. So he'd come over and tell the couple, ah, she's draining me. She's doing this. I got to stop talking about my divorce. Oh, I'm going to have a fucking heart attack over here. I don't want anybody to remember me like this. Somebody make a sandwich quick.

Jesus Christ. I'm going to explode. Listman's talking about his divorce again. Oh, man. Somebody quick change the topic. This is me listening to Jimmy. This is what this is. And I keep saying sandwich because for a northeastern Italian person, a sandwich cures all.

It fixes everything. You just make them a nice sandwich on some good bread. You get a good deli sandwich. Don't worry. I got a hard roll. What? You got a what? You need the good deli.

A hard roll is for the bacon, egg, and cheese in the morning. That's what you want there. You can get a hard sandwich on a hard roll, but that good bread, the good, you know, that's what you want. You get that and you eat it and then you go, you know what, I'm sad, but this Italian combo is pretty good. I'll be honest with you. It's not that bad.

It's not that bad. It's not that bad. It's not that bad. It ain't that bad. So Karen, Kastora's wife, she said, quote, he was angry. You could see it in his body. He said he would be the last one to lock the door of that house, not her. So he said, that's going to be my house. I'll be the one to whatever.

So, um, they also said that just, he just kept expressing anger about her. He'd pop up at neighbor's house and be like, she takes shit when I'm not there. I go to work. I come home.

She takes stuff. I don't know if it's my stuff. I don't know what she took. Uh, he also complained again about the messiness and the condition of the furniture. He said that Judith pissed all over his couch. So he's very upset.

He's again showing pictures of the furniture to other neighbors, showing pictures of the furniture saying, look, she's a pig. Look at her fucking look at what she's staying. She's a fucking pig. He's always calling her a pig to everybody. He told one of the neighbors that he intended to show the photographs of the stained furniture in court during the divorce proceeding just to humiliate her. He said, just to humiliate her. I don't even know if that will help me at all. He asked his neighbors to call him on his cell phone if they saw Judith going into the house when he was at work.

Do me a favor. Look out the window all day while I'm at work if you see anything give me a call but the thing is if she's i don't even know if she's taking anything i just know she's been in the house i don't know if she's taking anything if if she took something of yours you'd notice and if you didn't notice what do you give a shit if you didn't if it's that little of that little importance to you that you don't even notice it's gone, then you probably didn't need it that bad. But I get that. It's I get that. It's the it's the she can't.

I get the pig. Think about the mentality. Think about how much of stuff you accumulate over 30 years. And it got to the point where they're like, all right, well, next point,.412 glass animal figurines. Well, I get this one. I get that. The pig is mine. He can have the pig, but I'm getting the fucking cow.

That's what happened. That's too much. That's Looney Tunes. That's an adult. That's multiple adults sitting in a fucking room. That's crazy. That's crazy. So June 19th,th 2010 divorce is final she um has been coming

and getting her shit between uh 6 30 a.m and 8 22 a.m surveillance cameras at the quick stop you know like the convenience store on route 46 in parsippany show anthony novelino inside the store so that's his day starts out pretty early. He's supposed to go to work this day, but doesn't go to work this day. June 19th, that same day, 9 a.m. Now, Novolina stops at a friend's house in Denville and borrows a wooden chair. Oh, OK. He's got chair lending friends, I guess.

I guess. Yeah, she took all the good chairs. Yeah, I don't know. Chair London friends. I guess, yeah, she took all the good chairs. I don't know. At 9.37 a.m., Judith Novolino calls on her cell phone and has a chat with one of her closest friends saying that she just got to the house at 16 Cliffside Trail and she's retrieving a few more of her items and this should be all she needs and then she's done here. So Frank's at work and I stop by. I'm grabbing my shit you know one more load and fuck this place so um between 9 30

and 10 a.m a a neighbor there says that anthony novolino comes up and asks this neighbor if he can park in her driveway away from his own house and then he complained about the divorce for about 10-15 minutes and then he went over to the house so why the hell do you need to park in my driveway when you have a driveway right there you have plenty of driveway all sorts of driveway to deal with so that's not normal at all um very strange so um she but the neighbor said he seemed to be normal he seemed to be normal. He seemed to be, you know, normal Tony, she said. Just, you know, that's all it is.

But before he left, after parking his car and complaining about the divorce, he gave her a large potted daisy. It was a plant in a pot. It's a big daisy. And he said, quote, I was going to, wow. He said, do you wantisy. And he said, quote, I was going to. Wow.

He said, do you want this? And she said, why? And he said, quote, I was going to put this on Judy's grave, but it's too pretty. OK, well, she's not dead. And are you just going to I'm going to grow this plant and eventually she'll die and I'm going to put it on her grave. I don't know if that's the deal. So she said about how she responded, quote, I said nothing. How do you respond to something like that was what the neighbors said.

How do you respond to something like that? I mean, it's a yes or no question. There are only two options. But thanks for the flower. I mean, I don't know. Thanks. No, thanks. Between 945 and 10 a.m. neighbors hear a woman scream

and they believe it's from the Novolino home but they're not sure so that happens there later on in the day Anthony calls Luann Spencer she's a woman who lives in Washington State whom he has met online and been having a little fling with online

he met some he met her first he was on Match.com and shit. He met her in an over 50s divorced only chat room. Oh. Over 50 year old divorced only chat room.

God. That's, it's a damn depressing place right there. All you're going to hear about is polyps and prostates and fucking, polyps,

prostates, and, you know, legal briefates and, you know, legal briefs and, you know, property, property division, death certificates,

polyps, prostates and property settlements is all you're going to hear about in that room. Not good. So, yeah, that's who he's talking to. 10 49 a.m.

Surveillance video footage shows Anthony Novolino's Mazda Miata in the Toll Plaza operated by the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission entering Pennsylvania. So he's crossing from Jersey to Pennsylvania. Now to fucking Washington in the Miata? Put the top down and let's do it. It's June. We can put the top down the whole way, baby. Let's go. Open road.

It's on. Open road. That's it. Oh, my God. Just fucking king of the road playing while he's going. Blasting out of the roof of the Miata. Open roof, open road. Let's go.

Open road. Let's go. Come on. Trailer for sale or's go that's it fucking a chick out west that's it i'm gonna be gonna be king of the miata miata of the road miata of the road so that's right that's not great 12 12 39 p.m novalino calls spencer again his washington girlfriend saying that he wants to mail her cards and money but forgot her forgot her address yeah that's some shit to mail you you know he said my wife's acting

she's at my house acting crazy and that he took off work today. And, you know, I'll tell you all about it later, but I got to mail you this shit. My wife's acting like a fucking twat. This is all getting crazy. So 7.02 a.m. or p.m. I'm sorry. 7.02 p.m. June 19th.

Time goes by. Remember the neighbor, the Dexter Lynn Dexter? Yeah. Remember the neighbor, the Dexter, Lynn Dexter? Yeah. She's barbecuing out there at about 7 p.m. And she sees Christina Novolino, the daughter, just wandering in the street. Oh.

Wandering in the street. She said, walking around in a daze, crying. A 30-year-old woman. Just walking around in a daze, crying. And she overheard her saying to herself, I told her to wait for me why didn't she wait for me that's just yelling it to nobody in the street um yeah uh it's that's pretty interesting um then they see uh this neighbor sees not only her out there why didn't she wait for me then a bunch of police cars pull up crime scene tape starts going up all this shit and our neighbors are like

what the fuck is going on here holy balls so apparently christina had come over after work to help her mom pack up some shit and um she hadn't heard from her so she figured her mom was still there she goes over christina can't find her and. She walks upstairs, goes into the upstairs bathroom, and that's where she finds Judith. Judith is between the toilet and the tub. It's not right next to the tub. I have a picture of this place, actually, of the bathroom. It's still cleaned up, but there's a good amount of space. But that's where she is laid out.

She is, I mean, there is fucking blood everywhere. This room is like the shining hallway it is pools of it on the floor all over the fucking walls it is a complete and total disaster in there judith has been obviously hacked up all over there's multiple stab wounds it looks terrible she's obviously deceased. Yeah, you can see everywhere. She's got holes in her and just blood all over the place. And then the weirdest thing about this that would freak anybody out over her face. And I'm talking over her face lined up with the eyes and the mouth and everything is a rubber pink pig mask, like a Halloween, a creepy-looking pig mask.

Like if you were going as a pig person for Halloween, it's a whole – Eyes wide shut part. Yeah, but not just like an eye thing with a nose, a rubber mask that would cover your whole face. A whole thing over her whole head? Not over her whole head, over just the face part. You could put it over the whole head, but it was laid on her face with the eye holes all lined up and everything. And that's totally clean of blood. There's no, like, blood spatter all over it.

That's just like – She wasn't wearing it. Clearly wasn't walking around wearing it, obviously. So imagine walking in and seeing your mom there. So she freaked the fuck out. What's going on? What's up with this pig mask? That would give you nightmares forever.

Forever. That's fucking horrible. out what's going on what's up with this pig mask that would give you nightmares forever forever that's fucking horrible so police come in find out that she has been stabbed 84 times holy shit it takes a lot to stab someone 84 times that takes you got to stop and jesus okay several minutes yeah you got to go back to it i, and their wounds are all over the place. We'll talk about exactly where they are. Some of the wounds are eight to 10 inches deep. Wow. That is fucking deep.

That's to the hilt. That's rage. On this knife. That's absolutely rage. 84 times. Jesus Christ. So right away, they attempt to contact Anthony, the police do, because he's next of kin, I guess here. I mean, Christine is there, but got to contact the husband,

but they call him at work and he hasn't shown up for work that day or the day before he wasn't there. Yeah. So the police look around the house. Obviously you're looking for, is there still a suspect here? Is there somebody hiding in the basement with a bloody knife in their hand or something? They end up finding during the house, during the search of the house, a large wood-handled knife and a smaller knife in an alcove that they said is just a pile of shit and mess. They found it kind of wedged into it on the first floor of the home. The knives have blood all over them as well. There's blood all over the sinks. We'll talk about, it's just,

it's a bloody mess in this house. There's blood everywhere. They ask, they get ahold of Anthony jr here and they ask Anthony, do you know anything about this mask? And Anthony jr says, yeah, I know that it's a,

we, it was a hot Halloween. Somebody had that for Halloween years ago. I haven't seen that thing in years. I didn't even know we still had it. Really? Yeah, apparently somebody knew they still had it because they put it on Judith. They weren't on Pig and a Poke?

No, yeah, that's what it looks like. It's one of those. I was going to make that reference, but I honestly didn't think anybody would fucking get it besides you. This is me and you today, James. I get it, but I didn't think that it was one of you today i get it but i i didn't think that it was one of those where i'm like i'm gonna make no they will they are everyone listens to this no they are it's just yeah just just us we're not going to release this episode this is a private one today just for us but no it's it's yeah there's a pig in a poke from vacation

absolutely pig in a poke mask that's what they. Fascinating. We'll put the picture on social media. It's at Murder Small, at Small Town Murder on Instagram. It'll be up there with the rest of the pictures because there's a picture of a prosecutor holding it later. And it is creepy as fuck. He's going to touch it. Oh, yeah. Scientific evidence here that they got. They retrieved the pig mask, which was on Judith's face.

They said that it was aligned with her facial features. They recovered two knives, like we said, from underneath the stairs. One covered in dust and the other without any dust at all. That says a lot. The knife that was not covered

in dust had an eight-inch blade and a wooden handle. Swabs of blood collected from various places and items as well. DNA testing showed that Judith's blood was found in the sink, on the pig mask, on the eight-inch knife blade found under the staircase,

and the other blood here, they got a swab collected near this nozzle of the kitchen sink that identified another DNA source, and that identified another DNA source. And that DNA source is Anthony. But he also lives there. So, you know.

That doesn't mean anything. There's DNA. Wherever you live, your fucking DNA is everywhere. It's all over the place. You've bled all over that house. There's a lot of blood. So they go, well, that doesn't really mean anything. But they didn't find any. The lack of another one is what they were talking about.

Obviously, someone went to the sink and we don't see another strain of DNA. It's only these two who would have lived here. An expert in bloodstain analysis said that based on the blood found at the scene and the lack of visible blood on the mask, the mask was, quote, introduced after the death and stabbing. It was put on like as a as a as like a staging almost message. Yeah. Also said that the blood patterns showed Judith had attempted to defend herself. OK. Medical examiner breaks it down like this the stab wounds these are some stats here 84 total stab wounds including five to her face 11 to her neck 19 to her right shoulder three to her right breast three to her left breast four to the chest 13 to the abdomen 15 to her hands and seven to her back wow that is just every just covering frenzied yeah

frenzied psychopathic frenzy of stab wounds that's wild man that is a lot um and they said that the wood handled knife that they found with her blood on it under the stairs is consistent with the uh with judith's wounds and uh the depth of the wounds and everything like that they said that the wounds resulted in numerous internal injuries including the perforation of a small intestine and diaphragm and a puncture to the right lobe of the lung it's also he's carving her all up this is terrible the medical examiner said that the cause of death was multiple sharp force injuries and the manner of death is homicide, obviously. So, yeah. So they're collecting the DNA.

They don't really have very much. They obviously need to talk to Anthony, number one. Right now, yeah. Because he was seen in the neighborhood parking at a neighbor's house and then 15 minutes fucking late complaining about his divorce. 15 minutes later, they're screaming and now he's nowhere to be found. Right. That's not good. That doesn't look good for you.

Yeah. The the police spokesman said that this can only be described as a very brutal and violent encounter. You could definitely tell there was a struggle. People were fighting during the attack. They said, we have no reason to believe, based on the evidence that we have, that this is a random incident. We believe this victim was targeted. Obviously, nothing stolen. No one comes in and stabs somebody that they don't care about that much, puts a pig mask on them, doesn't do any sexual shit at all, and then leaves. Very personal, very targeted. It's money or sex are your two motivators for a stranger crime like this, if it was a stranger,

and neither of them are there. So what's a fool? Or a real psychopath that brings a mask with him. Yeah, got a bloodlust and then goes through the house, doesn't steal anything, but places an old Halloween mask that was God knows where

in the back of a closet in a hoarder house on the face. It's very, very strange here. So they said, we believe this victim's targeted. They said that Anthony Novolino is a person of interest, not a suspect right now. Oh, I mean, let's not go too far. A suspect, it sounds bad. It just sounds bad. You know what I mean? Let's call him a person of interest. You know what I mean? He's an interesting person. That's all. He's just real interesting. Yeah.

He was last seen driving his black Mazda Miata with a tan convertible roof. It doesn't matter what color it is because it's never up. So who cares? Roof will be down, baby. That we do know. They said that anybody who spots Anthony Novolino should call 911 and that he should not be approached. Right. Not saying he's dangerous, but they don't want to spook him.

It's like a deer. He's not a suspect, but do not talk to this man. I get that we said he's interesting five seconds ago. I understand that. I don't want you to think that he'd be interesting to you. He's interesting to us. He's interesting to us, to prosecutors, to forensic people. He's interesting.

To cellmates, you know. Yeah, to other people in jail maybe. Maybe to a warden. Possibly to a public defender. You know, that type of thing. So. A little interest to you with your fucking IT job. You don't need that.

Put up your Christmas lights. Put up your fucking Christmas lights, IT boy. None of your business. I don't know why I want to go there and yell at that guy, even though his house is probably awesome. Wasn't the IT guy's wife a librarian, too? Yes. You better stay away from this man. See what he's done to a librarian.

At a school, even. Same thing. A school librarian, not just a librarian. A school librarian is very specific. So where the fuck is Anthony? Well, I don't think Anthony is that technologically savvy, being at this moment a 63-year-old man dealing with very new technology. Not that there aren't some that are very savvy at that age, but even you, Jimmy, admit, at 40, you're not on the cutting edge of everything that comes out knowing what it all does.

I'm a fucking idiot. Yeah, it takes us a minute to catch up. It's just once you hit, like, 27, you're just like, I don't need that right now, and then you're behind. Once you go, the first time you go, I don't need to know about that right now that's it it's over everything else you're done it'll snowball from there man you'll never get that lesson back and you'll never that's the thing about computers and technology too is that like with other things

in my life as i was growing up you could take them apart like a method you could take things apart and see how it works i can't take a computer apart and look inside it and go oh obviously i do this to do that because who the fuck knows what that looks you can look inside it but you're not going to see just a broken fuel pump sitting there like something that's obvious i can't pull the fuse out see that it's broken and put a new one in i can't do that with a computer and they'll email me a PDF. What the fuck does PDF stand for? I don't know what this is. All your acronyms are bullshit. That all comes from the first time someone goes, oh, have you seen this?

It's cool. And you go, I don't need to see that right now. I'm busy or I got other shit I don't need to see that. That's it. You might as well buy a pair of khakis, pull them up to your nipples, and find a nice, comfortable bench. Enjoy your polo shirts the rest of your life. Yeah, nice, comfortable bench to sit on and watch the world go by because it's all over. And it's about 27 when that happens for the first time.

And then by 30, you're still almost there, but you're a little bit behind. And when a teenager says something at a family gathering, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know what you're still almost there but you're a little bit behind and when a teenager says something like a family gathering you're like oh yeah yeah i know what you're talking about but you really don't and then by the time you're 40 you're just like what the fuck are you talking about you know what don't tell me i don't even want to know i don't know i don't care gif stands for i don't know any of this i figured out how hulu works and i'm happy with that i'm done now thank Thank you. I'm good. My Apple TV is the last thing I'm going to worry about. And that takes for fucking ever because you've got to arrow over.

Type in my fucking email address. It's so long. God damn it. There's got to be a better way. So I don't think Anthony is. Why do you laugh at me when I say at Yahoo.com? Why is that funny? Yeah, it's hotmail.

So what? That's right. What's the joke? Why is it so funny? Because I have an AOL email. Neither of us have AOL emails or any of those. But that's how you feel, though. Yes.

You feel like you're walking around with an AOL email whenever anything comes up that you don't understand. It's a nightmare. I feel like Anthony at 63 and with 2009, 2010, very much new technology, he doesn't realize that just from knowing who you are, if cops want to, they can find out everything you've ever looked up

online, ever looked up all this shit. So they do. They look at his email account and show his constant communications with this woman in Washington. And they contact her. They call her. Hey, how you doing? You don't know us.

We're from a police department 3,000 miles away. Weird, right? You could do us a favor here. Is this Sad Widow 1234? Yeah. How you doing? Is this Rockin' Widow 86? Is that what? us a favor here is this sad widow one two three four yeah how you doing is this rocking widow 86 is that because you know it'd be something upbeat it wouldn't be sad yeah yeah it'd be like yeah

wild widow for you wild widow 1971 it would be or some shit like that so wet widow wet wild and widowed 19 that's a fucking that's a sad that's not a good porn wet wild and widowed here they are

they're sad but their tears aren't the only thing that's moist that's coming out of them i'll tell you that right now their eyes aren't the only wet part of their body they're wet at both ends that's a weird part in the porn you have to like talk to, make them feel better, and then have sex with them? Your words will make the moisture stop at one end. And then it's either go time or get the fuck out of here time. Get the fuck out of here.

So they talked to her, and she said, yes, I've been in contact with Anthony, and I'm sure, I mean, yeah, they're like, well, can you keep us abreast of what's happening and all that? So she said that, yeah, I mean, we were talking about him coming out here for a while. I didn't know he was going to come out here right now. I didn't know any of that. He called her from the road and was like, hey, I'm on my way out there. Hey, you home? She was like, huh?

What now? He's like, yeah, yeah. Come here. I'm the online guy. Just driving 3000 miles. Be drive in 3,000 miles. Be there in a couple days. Give me a, let me look at these papers that I printed out. Because that's how I got my directions today.

Well, as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, a few days before Judith was killed, they found in his computer activity, he accessed MapQuest to get to print out directions to Washington. You're absolutely right. Why? Because that was the last technology he embraced. Yes. I don't have to pull the map out every time. This is great.

I'm hanging on to this until the end of time until the end of time they're like at that point you can just get a gps and stick it on your thing they had like a tom tom or a garden or whatever fucking app on your phone and he's like that's too complicated i don't want to i like having paper i like the like the feel of paper that's long directions that's long directions that's gonna be so much but he had to go get new ink i'm sure during all that to print that out amazing so he got it's it's right it's at uh to her house basically the to the town of uh what is it pile pile up washington how do you say that uh pile up p-u-y-a fucking l-l-u-p i think it's probably

yeah pile up washington pile up washington um pile up pile up washington um yeah he met her i guess he had met her in 2002 oh seven years he wasn't divorced back then even what are you doing anthony he's been and he met her in a divorced chat room so he's been having like a little online thing with her for years now sir years uh before he left he glad before he left with his map quest with his pile of papers he left like steve martin and the jerk pile of papers, he left like Steve Martin in the jerk. He had that. He had his clothes and shoes, $5,000 in cash, and the bill of sale to his Mazda Miata in case he needs to hock it. Make sure it's mine in case I run out of five grand.

That's it, man. So now this is obviously crazy. The woman at the Richard Sokirka, he's the spokesman for the church that they go to, said it's a terrible, terrible tragedy. They're going to hold a mass today at the school for the faculty and students because everybody's very sad. She's been there forever. Grief counseling and all that kind of shit. Even though the school was closed for the summer, they still had like a big school memorial thing. The athletic director of the high school said she was a good person, a wonderful person.

It's a tragedy. His job, they go there. The press says, what's up with this Anthony guy? And they say, quote, he was a very pleasant person. There was certainly no indication something like this would happen. That's from the chief marketing officer for united jewish community says that um for uh for narado remember this fucking guy for joey funera oh joe it's joey funerato over here frankie's uh kiss whatever they with the c the other guy some other fucking kidding i don't know he says uh he says uh fornado said he was shocked when he heard about the murder you know he was whatever, with the C, the other guy. Some other fucking guinea, I don't know. He says,

Fortunato said he was shocked when he heard about the murder. You know he was. They said, you know she got killed? He went, oh! You know that was his shot. What? No! Oh! No, no, no! What, are you kidding me? There was a lot of questions. What, are you kidding me? You're not serious,

are you? Just a lot of questions like that um he said that cops knocked on his door at 2 a.m asking him if he knew where anthony was and he's like 2 a.m 2 a.m he's an old man he's like i'm a fucking old guinea it's 2 a.m i have no idea where he is he said quote i was blank yeah oh i said like i just asked a bunch of questions i don't know nothing i don't know a goddamn thing. They said, he said, I didn't know anything. I couldn't help him. I couldn't help anybody.

I didn't know shit about that. Another friend said, this is the bird, the guy who gave him pigeons, Tony there. Tony's wife woke her husband up when she saw the story on the news, and she had to make sure her door was locked because yeah anthony yeah he came over once in a while he's gonna come over and murder them now and she's on a spree so they have a memorial for judith a big memorial um the principal of the school said judy was the embodiment of hospitality she worried about everyone and wanted uh each person to be happy they said that uh she would they also said they didn't mention Frank's name, but they said that Judith would be the first to caution us to reserve judgment,

is what they said. So let's not all hate Frank at the moment. You never know. They said, quote, I'm sure she would always want us to remember her with smiles and laughter in our hearts. So that's very nice. Nobody had a negative word to say about her except for Frank, basically. But, I mean, they were married.

Her cousin said even through difficult times, she was never negative. She always seemed to focus on the good. That's who we're talking about here. So where the fuck is Frank? Where is Anthony? He took off. Indiana at this time. He took off here.

He's gone. He was hoping to meet up with her, obviously, the Spencer woman out there. She said she didn't know he was making the trip until about June 19th at 9.40 p.m. when he said he was on the way. Holy shit. Got my pile of. No. I've been talking to someone for eight years, and then you're like, coming on out. They're not even going to tell you what. What are you nuts? You can't do that. That's crazy. Think about doing that. How freaked out would you be if you knew somebody for eight years and you're having a weird affair with them and all this on the Internet? And they were like, I'll be there in a minute. I just printed out MapQuest. You'd be like, what? Fuck out of here with that. I've been watching 48 hours for the last eight years. This is like the number one episode that I've been terrified of.

Yeah. Some guy. I know it's the middle of the night and I'm an old man, but I'm going to leave now anyway. Yeah, the top's down. That's right. That's why that wind sounds so loud. I got an empty two liter next to me. I'm not going to stop but for gas.

No shit. The woman that he was talking to, the way also recently divorced so she was also oh chatting up during that she said she's never met him in person first time meeting and everything and didn't know he was making the trip she said that her relationship with him was a supportive one she called it she said that they had communicated through greeting cards on holidays or special occasions and exchanged emails or phone calls three to four times a week. You know, an internet relationship. That's what that is.

That's the definition of one. Now, while he's driving out, this is a funny thing he does. June 20th, 4.30 p.m. Central Time. He's in North Platte, Nebraska. Yeah. And he buys a lottery ticket. Uh-huh. What are you buying a lottery ticket for?

Who knows? He feels lucky. I was going to say, at what point of any of this would make you feel like you're lucky? It feels to me like he's driving, thinking, and going, I just murdered a woman, and I'm not in jail. I'm the luckiest man on earth. What do you always say to that person that has a great string of luck happening? You always tell them, go to Vegas, buy a lottery ticket. That's what he did.

I think he did. He also thought, well, rather than sell the Miata, I'll just win this lottery, and that'll be a lot easier. So he stayed in a motel there and then was disappointed when he didn't win the lottery. So then they have payphone records that place him in Nebraska and Utah and all that sort of thing. He's calling her all the way along the way. Oh, he calls her like three, four times a day just to give her progress. He's got nobody else to talk to. He's a guy who's constantly socializing.

Now he's alone in a Miata. So he only has one person to talk to. Closest quarters on the planet in a Mazda Miata. He calls her constantly by yourself in a Miata. That's close quarters. So the next day, June 21st, 8.24pm, he calls her again. This call,

the police have a tracing thing set up with her now. So this call's traced to Wendover, Utah. 8.16am, June 24th, he calls her cell phone and the call origin is traced to a 7-Eleven store in Paya Loop, Washington, whatever the hell it is. I don't care.

Please don't tell me the pronunciation of it. It feels like he went the wrong way, doesn't it? It seems like a terrible route, yeah. MapQuest gave you bad direction, sir. He went all the way south. You should have just cut across the tip top. Yeah. I guess, but I don't know what the highway situation's like up there.

Maybe at the time that he looked up MapQuest, there was like a pileup somewhere, and they were like, a quicker way is down here. Yeah, and he was like, well, that's the only way to do it. So at this point, too, charges are going to be filed against him, formal charges, but not for murder. Not for murder. A police officer signs a criminal complaint against him on charges of making terroristic threats several months ago to an attorney, Marianne McGlone, who was one of the attorneys for the wife. Oh, what did he say? The complaint alleges that Novolino put McGlone in imminent fear of death with the threat,

quote, I will get even with you and you will pay. That's it. That's the one you need to say. All I got was the pig figurine. Yeah, I'll get even with you and you'll pay? That's not good. Those sound bad. So they're talking about that.

The day the divorce went through, he was so insistent that McGlone not represent his spouse that McGlone's husband, who's another attorney, stepped in so the divorce could be finalized. He said, I won't sign the papers if that attorney is the if you're involved in it. But her husband, fine. No problem. I just don't like you. So McGlone said that she met several times with law enforcement officials since the murder was reported. So, yeah, they said that's how that went. And I guess she was originally hired as a I guess she and McGlone had the first meeting with Judith the last fall.

And Anthony also showed up and wanted McGlone to represent them both or act as a mediator. Like, we're not going to fight. Can you act as a mediator between us? And McGlone wrote that she told the husband she couldn't represent both parties and he was reluctant to leave the office and engaged another staff, engaged other staff in disruptive discussions. discussions so uh they she said quote he wanted to approve the new attorney mrs novolino hired mrs novolino was very quiet during this meeting because every time she attempted to speak mr novolino would try to shut her up why does it why do you want to choose the who gives a fuck you can only do so much under the law so who cares he likes to control shit though so he likes to control him um so they believed believed that essentially he would come to the office all the time and behaved in a manner that the lawyer thought of as amounting to stalking. Said he also allegedly told an office secretary that he was not the type of person to play games with. Good Lord, man. Yeah, that's pretty goddamn interesting um i guess

she said we both met we both met with ms mcglone because the plaintiff judith novolino made it clear to me she no longer wanted to litigate i guess that's what he wrote in that so they're tracking anthony they got him uh they got him all tracked up here. He's at the Motel Puyallup or whatever the fuck it is. That's where he's at. It is a $54 a night shithole here. Oh, Jesus. He paid cash. He's in room 230.

He paid cash there, and they said normally it's truckers there, which is interesting. He checked into one room but complained of seeing ants, so has moved to another room. I feel like he pulled up in the parking lot next to a big rig and pointed, what'd you think of my rig? Yeah, how about that? It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. So then about 630 p.m. U.S. Marshals came in and busted through the door. Wow. And there he was naked on the bed. Just lay in there. Wow. Not a fucking stitch

of clothes on his 63 year old ass just laying there he's probably whacking it you know he's whacking it he talked at some point oh yeah yeah he had 3738 dollars on him left he's already gone through 1300 yeah 1200 bucks he had cuts on right palm, bruised and swollen right knuckles, and a dark bruise and abrasions on his left armpit. So it looks like a guy who was just in a fucking fight for his life is what he looks like. He looks like a 63-year-old man who had a fight, yeah. Exactly, which is always a fight for your life when you're 63. Every physical encounter like that would be a fight for your life. So they found the Miata and searched that as well and found bloodstains inside there as well.

So they're not good for him. They photographed him. They photographed the cut on his right hand and the bruising and everything like that. They also find in the motel room. This is kind of the coup de grace. He has all these marks on him, blood in the car, everything. He has all these marks on him, blood in the car, everything. Then they find a note in the motel room that he wrote that says, quote, sorry for everything, but it wasn't my fault.

She jabbed me first. Oh, that's what it says. So he's not charged with murder yet, though. Still not charged with murder. Still just they're holding him on the charges of the terroristic threats to the lawyer. And they're going to talk to him. So they said he's still just a person of interest. So they sit him down June 28th.

By the way, he makes a bunch of statements because they drive him across the country. Wow. During that time, he makes a bunch of statements. None of them are going to count, though. A drive. Drive. A four-day going to count, though. A drive. Drive. A four-day drive. That's why.

Holy shit. I think we could spring for some airfare here for that. Yeah. Just out of ease. Did we handcuff him and throw him in the passenger seat of the Miata, or did we go in a police car? Yeah, I think so. He's in a sidecar in the Miata. They just put him there. It's two marshals in the front two seats and him in a sidecar.

No, that would fit in a lane too. They just drove him back and they said that he made tons of statements that weren't admissible at that moment. They get him there. They transport him back to New Jersey. That was June 28th. On July

29th, a month goes by. Oh, it's June 29th. I'm sorry. Yes. June 29th. On July 29th, a month goes by. Or is this June? Oh, it's June 29th. I'm sorry. Yes. June 29th. Next day. Yes. June 29th, he makes a request in the jail to speak with the Denville police captain, Paul Nigro.

N-I-G-R-O. Very careful. Nigro. Nigro. He also completed a written inmate request form asking that Nigro contact him ASAP. So there we go. They, Wilson, who's a police officer and who's a detective, and Nigro, the other detective, meet with him in jail, tell him of his Miranda rights, obviously. And they record the conversation. He discusses the divorce and explained that on June 19, 2010, he came home and found Judith's car at the house. He was like, well, this is no good. He said he didn't park his car in the driveway, not because out of a, you know, I don't want her to see me. He said he didn't park his car in the driveway because he thought a moving truck might be coming.

So he thought if a moving truck's coming, then I'm going to have to move my car. So I'll park, you know, at a neighbor's house and walk through my backyard because that's how normally people enter their house. A moving truck could straddle your car and still park there. You know, that's what I mean. It's a Miata. Just park it. Park it straight in the middle. Park it in front of the other cars, just like sideways up there. It doesn't matter.

Put it in the mailbox for now. Who gives a shit? So he said that he walked through his backyard and entered the house through the rear door. Why? Comes in the back door. He said as he came in, he heard a toilet flush upstairs. And he went up there and he saw Judith in the bathroom and she's in the bathroom. He said she had a knife in the bathroom and threatened him with it.

OK, so he said Judith attempted to stab him with the knife. And that's when a struggle ensued. And he cut his hand on the knife at that point, trying to block, trying to grab it from her. on the knife at that point, trying to block, trying to grab it from her. He said he recalls hitting Judith twice with the knife, like hitting her, having it in his hand and punching her. He says, but I did not stab her 84 times. Someone else must have came in there and stabbed her 84 times. But I just remember punching her a couple of times.

She must have fallen down. You know, I leave and then, you know, people smell blood. It's like sharks in the water. You know, they smell it it and they come in they just stab you a whole bunch of times right pretty not a good story that's a story that's a story he said everything happened in 15 seconds which is a pot stab 84 times right now tell me how long it takes you it's over a minute yeah you can't do that but even if you did it one every second that's a minute and a half well that's what i mean even if it's like if you were doing like remember when the guys would put the knife between their fingers in high school and shit like even

if you're doing that yeah you can it's not going in anywhere you still couldn't do it in 15 seconds you gotta stab at a rapid pace like i'm jerking off. And really into it, really working it. Beat of sweat coming down the forehead. But to put a knife eight inches into somebody to the hilt and then pull it out again, which isn't fucking easy, that takes way longer. That's three minutes worth of stabbing. Oh, fuck. You take a break during that amount of stabbing like that's especially if you're 63 you need oh god yeah you need a break after that so he said that the whole

thing happened in 15 seconds his heart was pounding he said then he picked the knife up from the floor and washed his hands and he washed the knife because it was covered in blood i mean you don't want to leave a dirty knife laying around he said said that he wasn't even angry, but he does admit that, quote, what happened was wrong. You think? Wow. What a limb to go out on. He said when he left the bathroom, he saw the messy hall closet as usual, and he saw sitting on top of the whole mess was the pig mask. He said he took the pig mask and just threw it into the bathroom. He is great. He'd be the best fucking horseshoe player ever. Cornhole, horseshoe.

Oh, he's the best. Dressing kids at Halloween. Frisbee. Amazing. Forget it. Costumes just flinging them. Pow, pow, pow. A mask going on.

He said he just tossed it into the bathroom and it landed perfectly on her face with all the features lined up. That's amazing. Wish you would have taped it and put it on dude perfect. He denied placing the mask on her face and he told the officers he threw the mask because quote the closet's a pig pen yeah okay he said he went downstairs washed his hands in the kitchen he denied planning any of this and said when he went downstairs he threw the knife under the stairwell which is where they found it he removed his bloody shoes put them in a bag and later discarded the bag at a restaurant somewhere between new jersey and Ohio. Wow.

Which means Pennsylvania because that's between New Jersey and Ohio. It was an eerie. Whole state of Pennsylvania. So he said when he left the house, he didn't even know where he's going, but eventually he said he traveled to Washington. He said he went to Washington not to get some strange, not to finally bang this chick from the internet. He said it was to give his car to a woman's daughter,

and then he intended to return to New Jersey and, quote, own up to everything. That's his statement. That's why he brought the bill of sale, to give it away, huh? To give it away, so he could sign it over. He could sign over the thing. Now, two days later, he's got different shit to say. July 1st, he again requests to speak with detectives. He's like, I got other shit I left out here.

So they meet with him in the jail. They advise him of his Miranda rights again. They record the conversation again. So it's all, this is all whatever. He says at this point now, he admits that in the days preceding the murder, he said, I did some stuff that makes me look bad. You're right. He sent pictures to Judith's family members, not only his own and his neighbors, but her fucking family members to try to embarrass her, showing the, quote, smelly and messy conditions of the house, quote, due to an incontinence condition from which she suffered. So if it's a medical condition,'s really fucked up, if she gets drunk and falls asleep

and pees on the couch, then you got bed puddle. That's bed puddle. That's couch puddle at that point. If you have a woman who's got a medical condition and can't help it, it may be nice to her. It's your wife, for Christ's sake. Jesus Christ. She doesn't want to do this either. Someday, whatever,

something's not going to work in you too. So she's going to have to put up with a lot. If you're in your 60s, you got to start putting up with weird health shit from your spouse. That's just all there is to it. Things drip out of you. We get it.

Things are dripping and stinking. It's going to happen. So he said that he did do that. He said, though, he did that, but that was more just like a take that type of thing like yeah yeah what a dick and then he said that um he he didn't it wasn't a he wasn't quote upset to the point he would do something like what was done to judith though that's crazy he tells the the detectives at this point that when he found her in the house

he asked her if she needed help moving things he said said, I wasn't even mad at all. I said, Hey, you need some help. He said that Judith was upset and he was nervous when he saw the knife in the bathroom because he feared that Judith intended to use it or was carrying it for protection. And who else is she protecting herself? But me, I'm the only one here. Yeah. So he said Judith was upset and that he was in the house and he picked up and picked up the knife when she saw him. So he said, you know, she picked up the knife when I came in and said, hey, you need some help moving. So I was like, well, this is crazy. So then he claimed he was just, quote, this is a great quote, quote, was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Which is what you say.

What? When a meteor falls on you. Not when this happens. Not when you stab a person 85 times. When somebody you're around commits a crime. Yeah. Then he says that he was a different person during the 15-second incident. So temporary insanity and wrong place, wrong time-ism he's got going on.

So he said that when Judith pointed the knife at him, he felt threatened. He said he recalled struggling for the knife, and then he recalls stabbing Judith twice. Before he said hitting her, now he said stabbing her. He said, and feeling, quote, like something was controlling him. The spirit of the pig is taking me over. I got swine flu. i got swan flu he uh he denied being physically capable of stabbing judy 84 times he's like i couldn't have stabbed her 84 times look at me look at me i'm frail i'm so uh look i can barely move now which in a rage you can do things that you normally can't do. When adrenaline's pumping, mothers have been known to pick cars up off their children when the adrenaline's pumping enough.

So if your adrenaline's pumping, you can stab the shit out of somebody probably. Oh, yeah. And it'll be fine. It'll be fine. He said that he was afraid Judith was dead, but rather than try to help her, he just decided he'd wash his hands and then took the pig mask from the closet. And again, he just tossed it, tossed it in there. And they said, they said, listen, you're admitting to 84 times, even though you're saying it's whatever you're saying. You went over there. You're saying you stabbed or you're saying you washed off the knife, washed off your hands, got all your shit, went to Washington. You're saying you stabbed her. You're saying you washed off the knife, washed off your hands,

got all your shit, went to Washington. You're admitting to all this. Why will you not admit to putting the pig mask on her? You call her a pig to everybody. You know, you had to have the pig figurine. What the fuck's your pig obsession?

And why won't you admit to it? And he said, I just threw it in there. I didn't do it. Will not never going to pick you up. That's what he it will not never gonna pick you up that's what he said never gonna pick you up never gonna let you down i'm gonna stab you 84 times and leave you what is it as many times as you call her a pig what What's going on? Now, I was talking about this with Allison, our research person, and she said she put it randomly somewhere, never going to pig you up. And I was just like, yeah, that's what it is.

It's never going to pig you up. I don't think she realized how funny that was. He refuses to admit it. It's the truth. It will not do it. He said that, no, yes, I hid the murder weapon. I murdered her. I hid it.

I covered up the evidence. I fled the fucking scene. How dare you say I put a pig mask on her on purpose? It's the weirdest point to be stuck on. Not to just go, yeah, she's a fucking pig, so I put a mask on her. Fuck her. Not to just say that is crazy. I guess because the pig mask implies that you did this on purpose.

Yeah. It's colder. It's also mocking her while she's dead. And you know what I mean? It's colder rather than just I felt threatened. So I stabbed her to say otherwise it looks like I killed her and then called her a pig and stuck a mask on her face. It's a totally different vibe.

Gives a different vibe to the whole murder. Sure does. It stings a little more. Yeah. It's a totally different vibe gives a different vibe to the whole murder sure does it stings a little more yeah it's a little more stank it's a little more urine soaked yes it is it smells it's smelly yeah soiled it's a little more soiled that's the word he kept using so the bail is set at uh at the urging of the prosecutor the bail is set at two million dollars cash only holy shit because he took off. That's why. Yeah, it's certainly a flight risk. That's his problem.

They set a separate bail of $30,000 on the terroristic threats to the lawyer as well. He's got two bails. Two bails. They said this $2 million is unusually high, but the judge agreed that it was warranted. They said that, you know, this is obviously warranted. He was supposed to pay out, by the way, one hundred and ten thousand dollars. Then another. Oh, no, this is including that a total of two hundred seventy thousand dollars in the next two months.

He was supposed to pay her in two months or three months or whatever it was. So they said that the authorities suspected that anthony may have access to money or accounts that aren't even known about yet because he had ample cash to drive across the country and was found in a motel room with thirty seven hundred dollars it doesn't mean he has a giant nest egg because he had five grand though let me tell you something because they were like they couldn't find out where what bank he pulled out of. That's why they're saying that. But old Italian people keep cash in the house. That was in the house.

Yeah, that's in the house. We all have cash in the house somewhere. Five grand emergency money is nothing when you're 62 and you've worked your whole life. Absolutely. And then you're also told of your parents are telling you during the depression, all this and that. And then Mussolini came and you're like, holy shit, I better have cash in the house. I do it. Funds are important, yeah.

Yeah, because Grandma told me that the Nazis showed up one day, and the fucking SS was there, and so you better have your stuff and go, and you got to run into the hills, you got to have cash to grab. Huh? What the fuck? So that rings in my head all the time, like some crazy World War II fantasy. I do it, and my family was the responsible part. They were the ones stomping in there. That's not good.

Trying to find children in holes. So, that's fucking funny. So, they said that's what's going on at a brief hearing here. There's a there's a hearing. And the judge asks or the prosecutor asked the judge to question Anthony Novolino about why a month into this proceeding. Now he's been arrested for a month. Why doesn't he have a lawyer or he hasn't applied for a public defender? He's made no no effort to get a lawyer. So he started talking. Novolino started making references to June 29th and June 30th when he made his confessions. But he was cut off by the judge and cautioned about discussing any facts of the case. He said, Your Honor, can I just explain something? On June 29th and June 30th, I voluntarily and the judge said, let me stop you right there. and june 30th i voluntarily and the judge said let me stop you right there this isn't the trial he tried to do like my cousin vinnie where he's like

it's a mistake these two they didn't do it he's like oh really this is a trial shit you don't know how this works you don't know how this works guilty or not guilty those are the only things coming out of all you need to Next up, they try to remove the prosecutor. Okay, the prosecutor, Robert Bianchi, while in private practice just a few years ago, represented AJ on

a heroin charge. Oh no. So the prosecutor knows some workings of their household and knows the people involved. So they ask for him to be removed. They say that they're not alleging any wrongdoing or anything like that, but they're just saying it would be a conflict of interest for this prosecutor's office, led by Bianchi since 2007, to be involved at all.

They want to take it to the state attorney general office to take over prosecution. So there's, you know, that's there. general office to take over prosecution. So there's, you know, that's there. Novolino's son, Anthony, it's Anthony A though. It's not a junior, but he's still junior. Yeah. The J comes from the junior part. It's junior. Yeah. It's Anthony junior. So he, he retains, at that point they, in 2006, they had retained Bianchi as a lawyer for him on a heroin charge in Essex County. They had retained Bianchi as a lawyer for him on a heroin charge in Essex County. Anthony Sr. met with Bianchi three different times discussing the case.

And ultimately, the appearances in court were handled by a different lawyer in the firm. But that's fine. They said that Frank or Anthony brought the attorney, Bianchi. He was so happy that he got these charges dismissed for his son that he talked to him and he liked him. He brought over bagels and cream cheese to say thank you to the office and all that kind of shit. Yeah. So they're trying to get him disqualified. being retained by the defendant to represent his son in a drug case had information and insight into the novalino family dynamics and consequentially should have recognized the obligation to recuse himself from any participation in this so bianchi uh wrote that he he didn't

think so basically he didn't write that he wants a part of this huh he wants a part of this so um they said rather than a deliberate carefully conceived act of rage. Oh, this is the defense lawyer here. Yeah. Okay. Never mind. Sorry. They said it was a brief exchange.

He acknowledged this is Bianchi talking about what he knows about Anthony. In a brief exchange, he acknowledged who I was, recalled representing my son, and asked how he was doing. This is what Anthony writes about the lawyer. It seems that the only thing he does not remember about me, my son, or the case is that he is certain he received a payment. So he knows he got paid. He paid Bianchi five grand in 2005 to defend his son and then another thousand dollars for the lawyer to arrange a polygraph for his son. offend his son and then another thousand dollars for the lawyer to arrange a polygraph for his son they asked that the judge reconsider the april ruling to have access to a legal file and all this type of shit so either way it doesn't look like that the end that he ended up recusing

himself from the case so suck around so the trial comes around oh Oh, my goodness. The openings in the trial here. This is Calderwood is her name. She is the lead prosecutor who's doing all the openings and closings. She says, quote, my goodness, the Morris County medical examiner who conducted the autopsy will testify he stabbed her 84 times, which sounds like the medical examiner stabbed her 84 times. He's going to testify that he stabbed a woman 84 times. He said the whole incident took 15 seconds. He said he found two masks in the closet, a pig's face and a Frankenstein monster, and that he chose the pig because his wife was sloppy.

He said he just flung it into the bathroom, but the evidence will show it was laid perfectly on her face. He was trying to make a statement. He said, she goes on to say that she suffered stab wounds to the face, neck, shoulder, chest, stomach,

and back, cutting her jugular vein and her liver, uh, with one thrust piercing her body eight to 10 inches deep and impacting her spine. He said, it will show you his commitment to accomplishing his goal of ending her life. So the defense counsel,

Michael Priya, Priya Roney, of course, Michael Priya Roney. He says that the actions Roni's of course it is, or Priya Rone. It might be, but it depends on how he, how he does it. He saysone, it might be, but it depends on how he does it.

He says that, yeah, okay, not good. Sure, you stab your wife 80, 90 times. I understand. That looks bad. I get it, all right? Listen to me. He said, but it's not premeditated. Oh, what are we talking about here?

Fucking premeditated he said it's a the tragic conclusion of a 37 year old marriage strained by the chronic drug abuse and related legal problems of their son anthony novolino jr so he called him jr in court he's fucking jr to me so they said bickering on how to handle their son and their approaches, the two, Anthony and Judith, their approaches diverged. He said the division grew and the marriage became a big fight. He said, though, but my client never intended to kill this broad. I'll tell you that right now.

Never once did he say, I'm going to cut her fucking throat. I didn't hear it from him. Nobody else did. He said that he never wanted to kill his wife, a popular longtime teacher. He said, quote, was there a divorce, tension, stress? You bet on both sides. Okay? Nobody's perfect, I'm telling you.

He said, quote, this is the type of stress that makes people die. And there was a property settlement. But there is a suggestion there by the prosecution that because he agreed to a property settlement, he killed his wife. He waived off her pension from 37 years. He had been a production supervisor and had been laid off. He was a security guard making $10 an hour. She was getting a promotion. But he never asked for a share of her pension or financial support.

All he said was, we'll split it all 50-50 and go our separate ways. So let's not float it out there that he killed his wife over money. Yeah, no one would. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. That's beneath him. Get the fuck out of here.

Money's money. It sounds to me like her wanting to support the boy uh well the man son uh yeah is that's going to be financial and that's what he doesn't want her to do and this whole thing a few years ago the whole goddamn thing is about money he said i love how he says that though so let's not float it out there that he killed his wife over money he's like don't even bring it up don't even bring it up no we're gonna bring it up a lot yeah so the um during the trial novalino doesn't testify but the jury hears nine hours of statements he made to detectives over the course of days he's testifying all right that's way more than testifying nine hours oh my god

including that he made at one point remarks that judith jabbed at him with the knife first and that you know he defended himself and all that kind of kind of shit he also claimed that he didn't know knowingly involuntarily make admissions to police and they didn't honor his request to speak to an attorney but they he they did later on do it. And they you know, they talked to he talked anyway. So now the pig mask is a big deal. Obviously, the prosecutors say that they reveal in court the rubber pig mask, which really fucked him good because it looks bad. Here it is. They said, here it is.

This is what he did to her. And they were like, it was not good. Here it is. This is what he did to her. And they were like, it was not good. She showed the mask to the entire court and then distributed just to the jurors and the judge, of course, a photograph of the victim wearing the mask. Oh, shit. Not wearing it, but having it placed upon her. She didn't use the available overhead projector to share it with the whole courtroom, with the judge and jury which is probably for the best the defense attorney um said that judith was the one who

produced the knife and tried to stab his client in the stomach or in the belly he put it and that her death is a result of self-defense it's open and shut she did it to herself she could she might as well have stabbed herself 84 times you You know what I'm talking about? Other officers testified about collecting additional evidence, including the murder weapon. An officer named Steven Herzog said that the knife was found amidst clutter in the basement laundry room under a stairway. Other officers spoke of blood samples on the knife and more blood splattered on the bathroom sink and toilet and kitchen it was just fucking blood everywhere jesus all of these photos are projected onto the television for the entire court to see there so prosecution closing yeah i have a picture of this too that'll be on social media the prosecutor takes the knife that's the murder weapon and she's like showing 84 stabbings but

we did that at a live show didn't we count yeah stabbings one time yeah and it was like it took so fucking long just do it with your arm how tired your arm would you your shoulders sore if you're not used to stabbing somebody your shoulder's gonna be sore it's a lot so the prosecutor said you know slashed through the air with the butcher knife and as a demonstration of Anthony's commitment to killing Judith. She said, quote, is it reasonable that someone presents with a knife? You take the knife and lose all control and stab them 84 times. That's a good question.

She said that Novolino craved control and even tried to orchestrate the sequence of events during interrogations by the police. He's a control freak. And he's particularly irked by the thoughts that his ex-wife was removing items from the house and getting half of his retirement fund. So the prosecutor said that Novolino snuck into the house through the rear sliding glass door because it's quieter, surprised Judith in the bathroom with the knife, murdered her 84, stabbed her 84 times before putting the rubber pig mask on her face. She said there was a quote. There was no other provocation by her. He has that feeling in his heart. And now I of, I got her now she's in the house taking her stuff out. Like that's his feeling like, Oh, I got her now. Here she is.

He, she went on to say that his behavior in the days leading up to the murder foreshadowed the state of mind that he was in during the killing. She, he had referred to Judith as a quote pig to multiple neighbors. Lately, he told people that he would get the last laugh, quote, unquote, complained that Judith was getting half his retirement money, and then gave the daisy saying he was going to put it on her grave, but it's too pretty. All of these things happen right there.

Talks about the stab wounds, where they are, how deep they are, all this shit. And then the telling part is though he had the peace of mind, the presence of mind to place a rubber pig mask on his ex-wife's face after

the attack. Quote, to make a statement about his disdain for Judith Novellino, he chose to put this on her face, to make a statement when she's found for how he really felt about her. Yikes.

Yikes. That does not sound good. Not at all. So the defense attorney comes up. He's just, okay, all right. This is what you trained for. This is what you go to law school for.

This is it right here, baby. Somebody hit somebody. This is what I've been watching school for. This is it right here, baby. Somebody hit somebody. This is what I've been watching Sam Waterston for years for, goddammit. Defense. I watched Matlock forever. Yeah. He said that he was, there was nothing about it. He didn't plan on killing anybody.

He was finding companions on Match.com and he was moving on with his life. He was fine. He said that he was making plans to move somewhere warmer. And he said that the problem is it was Judith couldn't stop from making nasty comments while they were together. That's all there was. If he was in the house, she was making nasty comments. The defense attorney asked the jurors, please find Anthony Novolino, that yes, he stabbed his ex-wife. That's true. You could find that. But find that he stabbed her in the throes of passion and provocation after defending himself against an attack that she initiated. Wow.

That is fucking wild. He says that Novalina got caught up in a rage and reacted to the provocation. That's all it is. She said, quote, he's enraged and he's out of control. This is the human condition we've known about for centuries. The heat of passion. This is their fucking argument. Oh, my God. passion this is what this is their fucking argument oh my god the defense attorney argued that investigators probed the homicide though novolino plotted and premeditated

they didn't or he didn't think that their evidence was enough he called it a terrible event that did not amount to murder though okay three stabs i'll give you i'll give you five i'll give you an even 10 stabs really you know what how old are you i'll give you that many stabs you don't get 84 how's that you don't get your age plus your son stop that's it nope i'm sorry you want to celebrate your birthday? Great. 84? Uh-uh. Unless you're 85, I don't want to fucking hear about it. No. Bullshit. I am so glad that I have a passion for peace. That's what I have.

Yeah. It's wonderful. And I just want it fucking quiet. That's it. Just don't want to fight anymore. Leave me the fuck alone. Keep your pig mask to yourself. Oh, my God.

Keep your pig mask to yourself. Oh, my God. So the judge instructs the jurors to consider murder, aggravated manslaughter, and passion slash provocation manslaughter in their deliberations. Okay. And all of those are different, obviously, different sentences here. countered with if novalino was in such a panic after the stabbing how did he manage to gather clothing wash and hide the large butcher knife wrap up his bloody shoes and grab the bill of sale to his precious mazda miata before leaving the house and heading for washington huh how does that happen it's a great question yeah and also the fucking pig mask is the other thing there you go this should serve a lesson to everybody listening, too. Always keep an eye on a grown man who drives a Mazda Miata.

Always. Absolutely. If there's one gray hair on his head and he's driving a Miata, that's a problem. Stay away from that guy. Plus, it's a nice Sunday weather day, and he's got his husband in the passenger seat. That's great. Miata yourself, silly. I'm not afraid you're going to murder me.

Yeah. A gray haired security guard driving a fucking Mazda Miata with the top down when it's 40. I'm scared. Okay? Very scared.

And shut up about stereotypical. You know exactly what I'm talking about and it's fine. Yeah. So jury comes in. They deliver, they deliberate

for three hours. That's it. Three hours. Three hours. Three hours. It jury comes in. They deliver. They deliberate for three hours. That's it. Three hours. Three hours. Three hours. It's real quick. That's for murder. That's like paperwork.

And of course, a sandwich. It's North Jersey. So they're going to get you a nice Italian combo, you know, something like that. Maybe a meatball. Maybe a veal parm. We don't know. Whatever you're looking for. Maybe it's early in the day.

Maybe some peppers and eggs. You don't know whatever you're looking for maybe it's a maybe it's early in the day maybe some uh maybe some peppers and eggs you don't know we'll get you some so he is found guilty very of murder yeah uh also other things so he gets the worst charge the murder the top one and also hindering apprehension tampering with evidence possessing a weapon for unlawful purpose and unlawfully possessing a weapon which soundslawful purpose and unlawfully possessing a weapon which sounds like the same thing they hate him they banged him with everything by the way i don't think hindering apprehension should be a fucking charge it's not in your best interest to be caught so why the fuck would you not hinder your apprehension that's the dumbest just alluding arrest right that's not immediately turning yourself in is what that is. Really?

What criminals do that? That's just a weird thing to charge. That should be everybody, I guess. That's what I mean. Everyone who commits a crime hinders apprehension unless they go, fuck, and walk up with their hands and cuffed. Please cuff me. I've done this horrible thing. You're not going to believe what I've done.

Sit down for this. You're not going to believe it. So the sentencing comes around and the prosecution reads a letter written by members of the family. Oh boy. And it says, quote, the defendant worked diligently to

humiliate and discredit Judith with his lies and distorted facts. However, she ascended like a rock star with nine priests concelebrating her funeral mass and almost 1,000 mourners at her wake.

In contrast, the cowardly defendant was found naked in a cheap motel room and will hopefully live out his life in prison. His duty as a husband and a father was to love respect and protect his family instead he has viciously slaughtered his wife unless left his children with a legacy of embarrassment stress and fear knowing the extremes he has gone to for revenge we believe he will kill again if given the opportunity of freedom. Yes, if anybody else builds up 37 years of acrimony with him, I'm sure he'll kill them.

So when he's 99, he'll kill people, probably. Also, I don't want to take anything away from the family, but who's more of a rock star, a person in a coffin or a naked guy in a hotel room? I'm going with the coffin, yeah. Alone in a $ dollar motel room with your cock out is sad alone it's just sad yeah that's just more people there if you had like four chicks in there with him i'd be like yeah all right he's living that out now yeah who's a rock star now no but this is this is this is the truth though i mean i don't think he'll kill again but i don't think it matters what he did was fucking horrific and he shouldn't get to walk around that's terrible so take take

everything away from from the the actual yeah the finding and everything what he did is horrific it's fucking horrible i don't care if he's gonna do it again he did it once fuck him yeah i don't need to yeah it's funny it's not taking any chances so the defense lawyer makes a only a brief comment to the judge because obviously you know he judge because obviously he's dealing from the bottom of the deck now. He's really trying. Be nice, sir. He asked for a 30-year sentence. He goes, huh?

30 years? What do you think? He's never had a criminal record, all this sort of thing. Come on. He's in his 60s. He's an older guy with 30 years. He gets out in 20. Maybe when he's in his 80s he can limp around somewhere come on uh but the the the uh prosecution hammered on the fact that he was

disparaging judith to friends and neighbors in the weeks and the and showing people pictures and talking about everything else found in a motel room fleeing and said he said uh or the the defense attorney said called novalino evil evil noting the savagery of the killing and how one of the 84 wounds penetrated 10 inches into her body and um again brought up the pig mask again and then put a pig mask on her she then said that conduct is something nightmares are made of he's not done mocking her it's so he's proud of it that's talking about the pig mask regardless of how she's killed granted 84 times uh that close is awful that's like the worst way yeah but the pig mask after calling telling everybody that she's a pig like that the pig mask is so much extra so much extra then

denigrate her character further and on top of killing her so it's anthony's turn to talk here he's gonna say something he's gotta say something here i mean this is he's either a nice guy who you know something's got out of hand or he's a fucking monster so he's got to be like hey i'm a nice guy look at me over here you know he says it's a tragedy what happened and i'm sorry for my part in it my part in it who who else's part it's all one action that you did what are you fucking there's no your part and other people's part your part is killing someone everyone else's part is arresting you james and in the in court he's blaming her right now yes. He's saying that my part in it was I went too far in defending myself, is what he's saying, which is not the thing to say to a judge after you're found guilty of murder. He said, unfortunately, our divorce was a regular, simple divorce, but family members got involved in it way before the divorce papers were served on me.

I'm sorry for what happened. I'm not looking for any mercy. And he said he had complained before the murder that his divorce agreement forced him to give Judith more money than he wanted, and he's sorry for what happened. I'm really sorry for our divorce, but our murder obviously takes precedence. You know, the murder takes a little higher up the list. So the judge said that the killing, quote, goes beyond a murder.

Yeah. He said. And he said that Novolino showed no mercy toward a woman whom he had spent more than 37 years with. He said, clearly, Judith Novolino was loved by many members of the community and her family. I see no evidence of remorse for life taken. You, sir, may fuck off 50 years.

Now, he must serve 85% of that, which is 42 years and 6 months before parole. He is currently, when that happens, 64 years old. So, when he's almost 107, he has a chance of parole. Maybe.

Holy shit. If they don't see that pig mask, because that's still going to freak people out 40 years from now. That is the biggest tease on the, that is more edging than anybody's ever done. Fuck you. That's a big fuck you is what that is. You can see it, but you'll die before you get there. Don't worry. That's fucking awesome.

Holy fuck. He could have got a life sentence, and the judge didn't explain. I think because he said 50 years means you're dead in prison. Who cares about life? Life, it's the same thing. He said that, but he did say later, for it's the same thing he said that um but he did say later novalino's not resort remorseful and has not accepted responsibility for a heinous cruel and depraved crime which i agree with 2014 yeah anthony jr's arrested again what did he do he's 30 this is going to get him a three-year

prison sentence uh this will actually this combined with something else that he's arrested with a couple days later here. He is found in Newark. He's arrested in Newark with 15 vials of cocaine and 19 envelopes of heroin. You think he's selling? Gee, 15 coke and 19 heroin? Maybe. Maybe. It doesn't feel like personal use.

No, no, no, no, no. I feel like you'd empty that in a one big bag probably if you had 19. Either that or he just robbed a drug dealer. One of the two. But only drug dealers have that much drugs like that. Yeah. So he ends up pleading guilty to a possession of heroin charge. And under the plea deal, prosecutors recommend a a three year prison sentence with no period of parole

ineligibility so he can get parole whenever problem is then he has some some other charges pending here the judge points out his criminal record right now which includes 17 adult arrests unbelievable

more youth arrests too but they don't get into that 17 adult arrests including nine prior convictions, including five convictions for indictable offenses. Novolino Jr. here, Antony Jr., has faced substance abuse issues related to alcohol, painkillers, cocaine, and heroin. Whatever he can get in his body. And he's probably selling to support the habit. That's what he's doing. Absolutely. he can get in his body and he's probably selling to support the habit that's what he's doing absolutely if he's a fucking junkie um they requested a or rejected a request by novolino's attorney to sentence him to time served they said the judge said i think it would be far more appropriate to let the department of corrections decide when to release mr novolino on parole

in light of his prior criminal history i think mr novolino's parole. In light of his prior criminal history, I think Mr. Novolino is entitled to a lot of supervision. Probably more of them can be provided by the Department of Corrections. So he needs extra prison is what he just said. Yeah. He needs supervision more than can probably even be provided by literally locking him up and watching him 24 hours a day. We need more than that.

We need specific guards to just change shifts, rotate, watching just that man. Just Anthony Jr. here. So the other thing he's in for, why it's compounded, is the Parsippany police went to an Exxon on Route 46 to meet with the owner of a 2005 Jaguar that was just stolen from right in front of the guy in the parking lot. The victim told police he came out of the store to see the Jaguar backing out of the parking space. He raised his arms like, what the fuck? Which is what you do, I guess. What are you doing?

Are you kidding me? And then he ran to try to block it, but the car just drove and he had to dive out of the way. So the vehicle was recovered undamaged in newark he just needed a ride to newark yeah just had to go pick up so they end up investigating they track it to anthony novolino jr he's the one who stole it they find him at a days in hotel located close to the exxon station where he took it he took the car went to newark to buy drugs and then came back and dropped the car off by his fucking or dropped it off in newark and then came back there's 54 a night hotel

fuck yeah exactly like you know what it's all genetic babe yeah so the detectives kept his room under surveillance and then arrested him as he exited the vehicle was recovered in newark like i said um that's fucking amazing um that's fucking wild that he did that so he uh i can't believe he almost hit the guy in the car that's what's wild the guy tried to block the car he was like fuck you and gunned it mine now mine now so then novolino uh then now is recommended they sentence him to another year. So now he's got four years in prison and he's got to serve three years and four months to be considered for parole. Now he's got to serve 85 percent. He fucked himself good here.

He acknowledged that he stole an idling Jaguar in Parsippany and then tried to use force by continuing to drive as the owner blocked his flight. forced by continuing to drive as the owner blocked his flight. He also admitted that unless sentencing is adjourned because of the new indictment, oh, his plea offer, never mind. Okay, so he's in prison in 2015. They're both in prison. Not the same prison, but father-son in prison. Son's in prison. And by the way, whenever there's an article about him, it starts with, quote,

the son of convicted wife killer Anthony F. Novolino then says what do you want what he did after that wow that's amazing um so he uh he's being held on drug and robbery charges obviously he's in the morris county jail novelino jr and the grand jury issues an indictment that charges him with aggravated assault on law enforcement officer at the jail. Oh, God. He's accused of repeatedly punching corrections officer Michael McCall in the face and head on March 29th. The indictment charges that Novolino purposely or knowingly recklessly caused bodily injury. He was being held in disciplinary detention unit because of some infractions because he's an idiot. One of the infractions was hoarding prescription medication that he's

supposed to swallow as soon as they give it to him so he can get a buzz. They save it up and then get a buzz later. So this guard McCall, the corrections officer opened the door to the cell as part of a routine check. And Novolino was standing by the door and just lunged at him and repeatedly punched the shit out of him. Other officers responded, subdued and handcuffed Novolino.

They took McCall to be examined, and then he ended up finishing a shift, the guy. He was like a hockey player. So he's going to get more time for that. So Anthony Jr., he's always going to be in and out of prison until he gets this drug. He's never getting out. Unless he can stop doing drugs, it ain't happening. So then the appeal comes around for Frank Sr. Oh, boy.

And they said that the pig mask was displayed to the jury, and they said that it was totally— So inflammatory. Inflammatory. The judge said, though, contrary to the defendant's assertions, evidence of the mask inferentially established the defendant's identity as the murderer corroborated the defendant's admissions that he stabbed Judith and supported the credibility of his statements to the police. It also provided proof of defendant's motive, intent, and state of mind for the stabbing and supported the state's theory that the defendant knowingly and purposely killed Judith in part because of his anger about her messiness in the household. Further evidence, further evidence concerning the mask undermined defendants theories that he acted in self-defense or by passion and provocation.

We are therefore convinced that the premise for the defendants, various arguments that the court aired in admitting the evidence that the mask had little probative value is wholly contradicted by the record. Get fucked. They said also he tried to get the nine hours of statements that he made thrown out. He said that he claims that he didn't knowingly and voluntarily make statements to the police and they didn't honor his request to speak to an attorney. statements to the police and they didn't honor his request to speak to an attorney. The appeals court found that the police scrupulously honored Novolino's request about speaking to a lawyer and found that Novolino himself specifically sought to resume talking to police by asking for them. The reason why when you're in jail, this is the Dahmer thing.

They told Dahmer when they arrested him and he wanted to talk and tell them everything and figure out who people were. They told him every morning you have to tell the guards you want to talk to us or you can't talk to us. We can't get you. You have to get us. Oh. Because a lawyer has been retained for you. So once a lawyer is involved in all that, if they go to you, it looks like they're harassing you basically and they're trying to get this out of you.

Christ, that fucking accent came out there. I've been doing it too much and it actually came out you gotta ask for us yeah they're harassing you so it's you have to ask for the detective to show that you want it because then they can't say that you came there and extracted a statement from them you asked for them so if he asked to talk to them he can't say they harassed a statement out of him that's what he's trying to say so they say fuck your appeal die in prison old man hope you're on hope you're on into your son is what they said basically now the house i found 16 cliffside trail in denville is still around still there saw pictures of it and everything it's sold in 2011 so two years it's sold yeah it's a year after the murder it's sold so i don't know yeah fuck it's a year after it sold for three hundred

thousand dollars then the uh it's estimated at being worth three hundred sixty one thousand five hundred dollars now it's a a fourteen hundred sixty six square foot house just your basic split level jersey Jersey family house. Who gets that money? I guess the daughter and the son? I don't know if he would be allowed to use that toward his defense and toward whatever. Oh, great point. I would assume he would be allowed to, just minus the half that he owes to Judith.

That would go into her estate which would probably go to his kids i would assume or whoever she left it to i don't know but that's what i would assume what would happen but i'm not an expert in new jersey estate law right so i don't know is that if the divorce wasn't final yet it's all it was final it was final okay it was a final final yeah it was over he just had to he had to uh to make the actual payments and everything. So it was signed, sealed, delivered like two weeks before this. Shit. So there you go. That's the house.

That's Denville, New Jersey. And that, everybody, is a crazy fucking murder. And just a little extra stink on that one, right? Anybody that's been divorced certainly understands. But you don't do that. You understand the desire. Yeah desire yeah yes that's the thing everybody gets the desire at one time or another during a divorce to go jesus christ to be so much easier to just fucking kill up everybody said that that's fine to actually start thinking about

it is crossing a fucking multitude of lines that you shouldn't cross. It's so far. Yeah. It's so far. It is far. Because, yeah, over the course of decades of the most personal interaction possible where everything is tied together, you're raising your family, your bills, your finance, everything's all intertwined. If you start fighting, that shit can get real nasty if you're getting a divorce. And I can see the acrimony building up and people wanting to do this but you can't do this no this is fucking nuts so especially with the pig mask come on man you gotta swallow your pride and just look at how much peace you're about to have yes

one way or the other even if even if you're the agitator yes you don't have anybody that's bothering you any longer no and it's the bronx tale theory yeah you like that guy is he your best friend no well then it took you 20 it costs you to get him out of your life forever he'll never ask you for anything again that's what it is look at it like that fucking move on you know so there you go if you like that show or any of the other shows tell the world about it it helps a lot honestly the most to use the, do whatever app you're on, give us five stars, please. It does help. But the most, the biggest way this show spreads is word of mouth. Yeah.

They can try to advertise it all they want. We can do swap things with other shows. We can do all that shit. We can have a Super Bowl ad. It doesn't fucking matter. It does not matter. Word of mouth. A hundred million people could see something and

it won't get as much traction as if 10 000 people tell their friends that's what'll do it because that's doing it recommendations from your friends on something as personal as a podcast is how you how you spread it so thank you for doing that keep it up tell everybody make it a point this week go out and tell a few people about small town murder right it helps a lot thank you for doing that we appreciate it, honestly. To your point, I can watch commercials all day long, but you telling me to watch the Pepsi documentary, I watched

it. You telling me to watch specific things, it's because I give it... You do the same thing. You like things? I like those. I'll watch it. You're my friend. We have similar tastes. I'd like to see it, too. Then we can talk about it. Fucking Pepsi. Yeah, exactly. Giving me a goddamn jet. And Then we can talk about it. Fucking Pepsi. Yeah, exactly. Giving me a goddamn jet.

And then we can talk about it too, which is fun. So do that. Thank you for doing that, everybody that does that. Definitely follow us on social media. We're at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Murder Small on Twitter. Follow us all there. Get all the up-to-date things.

You'll know when the second half of tickets go on sale because we have the first half are on sale right now so you can get your tickets anytime you want. You can go on there right now. If you'd like to come to the St. Louis show, especially, and Cleveland too, I recommend getting your tickets ASAP

because they're going very quick. They're the ones in February, so get those, especially St. Louis. Holy shit, that was wild. So get all that stuff there. Your tickets at shutupandgivememurder.com is where you get those. I don't think you'll need the presale code by the time this comes out, so you're good there. By then, no, should be okay.

I don't think so. It's tase me with a Z just in case, but there you go. Quickly over the dates. Yeah, one word. February the 10th in Cleveland, February the 11th in St. Louis. I think they're only selling the Friday show in Seattle right now. And if that sells out quick, then they'll add the Thursday show as well. So Seattle in March 24th, Portland March 25th, Detroit on May 5th, and Pittsburgh on May 6th. Those are the ones for sale right now.

And then after that, beginning of the year, they'll put the rest up. That's San Diego, Salt Lake City, Denver, Minneapolis, Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Philly, and Washington. And then also New York, Boston, Milwaukee, Phoenix is coming. Definitely. So we have all those coming. Get your tickets. We cannot wait to come to see you people come out to a live show and see us i will guarantee you this you know what i we don't we don't ever

like to say anything bad about podcasts and we won't say anything bad about any specific shows because it's not about anybody specific we do the best live comedy podcast show in the fucking business and i'm not just saying that i'm saying that we've had people who work in these theaters and clubs go holy shit i've never seen a fucking podcast live that was actually a comedy show my ribs hurt and i work here right that's how that's how we throw down to us it's a comedy show based around this murder but the pictures and everything else we want we want laughs all the time. It's not a lecture.

I want you to come see it again. Yes. And that's the thing. That's the biggest compliment as we get so many, nobody goes once. If you go once, you'll be back. Like we know that just come once.

We'll get you. Don't worry. You, you will definitely want to come back to that. And the community in there is so much fun. People hang out together. They make friends like, Oh, you're the people I know online too and they they fucking it's it's awesome to watch thank you so much for coming out and seeing us and doing that shut up and give me murder.com

also you want to go to patreon.com slash crime and sports that's where you get all the bonus materials anybody five dollars or above and that isproof, I'll tell you that right now. Anybody $5 or above, you are going to get, first of all, a whole back catalog, 150 episodes of bonus stuff, but new ones too. Every other week, you are going to get one crime in sports, one small-town murder, never fails. And this week, what you're going to get is for crime in sports, you're going to get some crazy stories from the A the aba american basketball association 60s 70s craziness the we did the reggie harding episode a couple weeks ago on crime and sports and the story of him in the room with the gun with the guy and fucking you think i only had six bullets all that shit yeah that's just a normal aba story that's the type of aba story that we have.

We have tons of those. So I'm going to give a bunch of ABA stories. And then for small town murder, on the other hand, that's going to be a lot of fun here. We are going to talk about video games that apparently make people kill based on people's accusations,

which I think is bullshit, obviously. But we're going to talk about people blaming video games for death and murder and destruction we talked about music and books and all that shit in another episode now we're going to talk about video games and get into all that there's so much of it

it's wild so we'll get into all I guess because video games came around and that's when more technology was out news social media so either way we'll get into all that stuff that is patreon.com slash crimeandsports. And you know what else you're going to get? A shout-out. And when do you get that shout-out?

Right fucking now! Hit me with those names, Jimmy, and put a pig mask on me, baby. This week's executive producers are Franny Hitzke in Australia, Ty Yeager, I think it's Yeager, it might be Jager, in Texas, Laurie Simmons, Natasha Danielle Thompson, Sneer Holloway. Sneer, is that right?

It's not Sneer. It is Sneer. Holloway? I maybe spelled that wrong. And Cody Leversey, thank you guys so much for everything that you do. Other producers this week are Travis Tessier, happy birthday. Queen Anne and her cat, Monkey. Brandy Huntley.

Liz Vasquez. Sharon Jones. i'm not doing shoeies that's never ever happening that's discussed you know that's where you'd pour a beer into your shoe and drink i'm not doing that it's not happening why would you do that people in australia or uh somewhere else like to do i think it's australia that's something you do in the 10th grade that you challenge somebody to do yeah grow up australia fucking rugby uh mcdermott cody levercy i said that in detroit uh cody cody no that's pet peyton meadows thomas smith is listening while baking jonathan phipps janice hill palivas besafias besa basis vicious

madison dotan uh carrie jervis stephanie sealeloff, Justin Klein, Ashley Lundler, Levi Wiley, Lindsay Etherton, Kavi Jay, Joanna Cacacho-Krant, Jessica with no last name, Shailene Napolsky, Jennifer Gorman, Patricia Stone, Aaron Blue, Stephen Silsby, DeeDee McMillan, Matt Fields, Brandy with no last name, Holly Davidson, Andrew Wright, Lee Wyatt, Brian B., Tiana Harms, Maddie Wolliver, Max Power, Adam Clark, Devin Crook, Diane Parnell, Chase Quinn, Tuesday Johnson, Kaitlyn Rose, Nick Howard, Zach Makin, Lauren Jones, Nicole Gardano, Leanne Searcy, Lacey Kay, Isaac McCalla, Amy Cuomo, Teresa with no last name, Lacey Lee, Megan Shirley, Laura Swope, Samantha Kennedy, Jonathan Bennett, Virginia Lumpston, Nando Soto, Blake Field. Nope, that's Blake. Blake. Blake Banfield. God damn it. That was a hard one.

Are you proud of yourself with jack mehoff really thanks thanks for the money that's fine yeah zach jordan hot bod kev come on kevin teedor teodoro or uriah's matthew thompson pump big pop of pump kev alex parker uh wesley, Iris Woody, Raina Speaks, Rachel Young, Kayla Fitzsimmons, Wendy Nathan, Ramona Jorgensen, Ashley Breyer, Maureen Corcoran, Stacey Kraut, Dover Girl, Destiny Pearson, Candice Haley, Felicia O'Neill, Rebecca Coxon, Blake Starker, Shea Rennies, Kate Quigg, Blake Starker, Shea Rennie, Kate Quigg, Achlis O.T. Oh, no, that's double O.

Courtney Harrison, Macy Procell, Carson Stout, Brooke Noel, Brandi Huntley, Casey Locke, Frances Brown, Melinda Hardy, Ashley Dale, Anissa Mitchell, Jake Young Johnson, Jack Young. What? What is that? Jake. Jake Young. I don't know Young Rhonda O'Quinn Sarah Humble

Heather Watts, Emily Fabian Carolyn Petrorius Mac Bryant Tenacious Warden Al Schmitz, Chantel with no last name Victoria Allen, Chris Saar, Garrett Joseph Aline, nope, Eileen Oaks, Nathaniel, Ramos, Cara, Mia, Michael Dixon, Adam Skelton, Callie Grant, Agnes Zekowitz, Todd DeFore, Spider Dan, Nicole Moreno, Bobby McGue, Shelby Fairchalk, Mary Elizabeth Hawizabeth hawkins joe veto vetito uh matine matine matine hill uh

ruineth hill uh amanda stout john patreon howie with no last name nicole with no last name sarah ogden austin with no last name jamie ray parker alex schumann tanya or uh osborne mckenzie uh Tanya Osborne McKenzie, Jennifer B., Dottie Sloan, Colleen LeClaire, Michelle Arachichi, Franklin, Stacey Goodland, Cassandra Coeli, Matthew Nelson, Matthew Beal, Jeanette with no last name, Ryan Pasica, Mandy Hanson, Randy Myers, probably not, Dale Oren, Monica Ciannave, Jessica Higgins, Stacey Helsing, Charla Mack, Charles maybe, Michelle Sinisey, Douglas Robertson, Jacob with no last name, Kyle Mintz, Dan Davis, Esther Chapman, Jamie McDougall, Dimitri with no last name, Ramiro Raposo, Steve with no last name. Donnie King. Gina Marion. Yvonne Kelly Schiller.

Christy Cates. Ben Adler. Mark Summers. Probably not that guy, right? Was that guy from Double Trouble? Double Dare. Double Dare. Double Dare.

Melissa Carey. Glenn Ray. Courtney Johnston. Christopher DeCorte. Rob Tassar. Tina Gardner. Caitlin Kearns. Stephanie Fields.

Lindsay Pajar. Pohar. Grammy Pammy, Emily Norman, Brittany Bird, Ashley Towles, Jennifer MF, and Haya, Susanna Susan, Susan Ventura, Kyle Ann Charlotte, Jamie Fraser, and all of our patrons. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much for all that you do for us. We do appreciate the shit out of every drop of it. So thank you, thank you, much for all that you do for us. We do appreciate the shit out of every drop of it. So thank you, thank you, thank you for what you do. We'll keep the bonus stuff coming if you keep the ears coming as well. Thank you for everything.

Ew. Yeah, I was just like, I can't believe I just said that. Your ears are coming. We'll keep coming. Wait. If your ears are coming, maybe that's something you should have looked at, I think, possibly. I don't know how to say it without it being gross. It's disgusting.

Bring your ears and we'll come on them. Nope, that's not it either. Damn it. You want to follow us on social media? Very easy to do that. You just go to shutupandgivememurder.com. Links are all right there. Thank you so much, everybody.

And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. much everybody and until next week it's been our pleasure bye hey prime members you can listen to small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.