Small Town Murder - #344 - Don't Look In The Stove - Oconomowoc, Wisconsin

Episode Date: December 17, 2022

This week, in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin, an unlikely couple enjoys the good life, full of fun at the lake, and good friends. Until one of them decides they'd rather be with someone else, then it turns into a bloodbath. A bloodbath, that the murderer calls an"accident". But accidental deaths usually don't end up with parts of the bodies in a wood stove, and the other parts in a cornfield. A truly terrible killing, with an equally baffling excuse, and outcome! A creepy, weird, and head shaker of a story!!Along the way, we find out that you may still need air conditioning in Wisconsin, that decapitation is a strange response way to handle an accident, and that you shouldn't hesitate to eat the fries that you find under your car seat!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo-choo.

Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station. Hop on because we're going chugga-chugga, motherfuckers. So let's go. we have a wild episode today as usual uh they've been insane lately by the way so the really really really finding our way jake we're finding our way in the world and these stories have been nuts so we will not slow

it down today very quickly though head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Get your tickets for the live tour. 2023, we are coming places somewhere. Half the tour, the first half of the tour is on sale now. The second half goes on sale early 2023, we've been told. The first two dates, February 10th in Cleveland, February 11th in St. Louis. Get those tickets right now because they are almost gone. Especially St. Louis, but Cleveland too. Get those tickets right now because they are almost gone. So especially St. Louis, but Cleveland too. Get those tickets right there. And I have said this before.

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I made some promises. Jimmy's not in this, but I've been the vicious one that people seem to really think I hate. So patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus materials and we have tons of it. Anybody $5 or above, you're going to get access to everything, all the bonus content, which is like 150 back episodes of bonus episodes that you haven't heard.

And growing every week because every other week you get two new episodes. So they keep on stacking. It'll be one crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get it all for the low, low price of $5 or more. So there you go. This week what you're going to get is for crime and low, low price of $5 or more. So there you go. This week what you're going to get is for Crime and Sports, Crazy ABA Stories. It's American Basketball Association from 1967 to 1976. And then they went defunct. Well, they merged with the NBA, but they were going out of business.

And any kind of defunct league is awesome. And it's just a lot of guys fighting and the worst business decisions you've ever heard of and the dumbest promotions ever. It's awesome. We'll talk about that. Hilarious. And then for small-town murder, we're going to talk about when video games have been blamed for murders, and it's happened since the early 80s. They were blaming Pong for murders. It's crazy.

Ever since a child has picked up a paddle, they've said, you're going to kill somebody if you keep playing that crap. So we'll talk all about that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports, and you will get a shout out at the end of the main show as well. So keep on doing that. That said, Jimmy, I think it's time to sit

back. All right. Let's all come together and clear the lungs. What do you say here? Wherever you are, we don't care. It doesn't matter. Just hang out your car window and shout it at fellow drivers for all we care. Make people know you're weird. Scare the shit out of your pets.

Let's shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. All right. We are going on up to Wisconsin.

Okay. Yes, Wisconsin. We like Wisconsin. We're going to, oh, man, Aconomowoc. Yeah. Aconomowoc. I'm pretty sure that's how you say it. If not, hey, it's a fun adventure.

What do you want from me? O-C-O-N-O-M-O-W-O-C. That is a lot of O's. Akanamawak. That's a lot. That is one, two, three, four, five O's in one word, which is quite a bit. And this is about 35 minutes outside of Milwaukee. So it's not far.

It's a suburb of Milwaukee out west. But this and when this happened, it was very rural out here, cornfields. So I'm sure it's more filled in now. Like where – exactly where the gross stuff happens here is probably a subdivision now. It's probably track housing. But at the time, it was a cornfield and someone is sitting in their nice living room or out back in like their makeshift fire pit area with their nice backyard. They've got a jacuzzi. And there's been horrible things right under their feet, and they have no idea about it.

There's a lattice there now. We know it for sure. Absolutely. There's a grill on top of where terrible things happen. So the population here is about 8,767 people. Not about exactly because that's an exact number. You don't say about 8,767 people. That's how many people are there.

How much is this car? Well, about $36,752. $352.45. About with tax, title, and license. You know, somewhere in there. Approximately. Approximately. Let's see.

Median income here. Median household income is high here. I think this is you can move out to the burbs a little bit and get a little more space. Sure. $89,932 a year. Hey. So a little higher. Normally it's $55 in the rest of the country.

Median home price, though, also reflects that. $410,000 is the median home price, which is also high. So it's expensive out here. Now, I don't think it was as expensive back then. Quick history here. This was originally inhabited by the Pottawatomie people. Them too. Again, with the Pottawatomies.

They're very popular in the Midwest. Yes. And those peoples, these particular Potawatomi, descended from the woodland Indians known as mound builders. Oh. I don't know. They're building giant anthills. I have no idea what's going on.

You can't say woodland and make me not think of little tiny creatures. Yeah. I think of like a squirrel with a smile on its face and a twinkle in its eye. Couple of raccoons. Adorable chipmunks everywhere. So by 1865, they incorporated it as a city. By 1880, there was 3,000 people here. Shit was going.

Shit was moving. going shit was moving uh april 2nd 2008 a gas line exploded just west of downtown destroying the first baptist church on west wisconsin avenue that's a sign right so yeah i was gonna say you know they probably thought it was on purpose and like oh yeah never mind uh it was built 1913 this church an old church completely destroyed except for the frame of the bell tower, which later had to be torn down anyway after risk of collapse. Right, because the integrity of the structure is compromised. Completely all fucked out. So the source of the explosion was an old gas line that had been capped off sometime in the early 70s. Oh, and the cap wasn't done right?

70s. Oh, and the cap wasn't done right? It ruptured after having been struck by a backhoe as utility work was being done on Wisconsin Avenue in preparation for reconstruction on the street. It was not not capped right. A dipshit dug into it. Somebody didn't do the thing that you do with the electric company

with the metal detector. They didn't go find it. They didn't go find it. So, reviews of this town. Five stars. Fun, friendly, and hopping town and hopping town hopping you don't hear that very often in our reviews it's hopping over here the downtown strip and boardwalk is always popping it's hopping and popping it's hopping and popping is if there's an hopping at the next at the end of the next sentence i I'm really going to be pissed. Amazing restaurants and always super friendly people.

These are all exclamation point sentences as well. So they're really into it. Is there a lot of places to go shopping? I hope so. It's hopping and popping and let's go shopping. Pow. Let's do it. So four stars.

My parents both lived in L.A. for the majority of their lives i don't know if they mean los angeles or louisiana though yeah we don't know uh but they decided to move out to i guess that would be out as opposed to up although it's up from both places but it's out yeah it's out of yeah at a move out to okonomawa in 1999 when they had their first son, my older brother. What a weird way to start this fucking review. Clunky writing. They wanted to be closer to family and raise kids in a more family-friendly environment. As far as I'm concerned, they made a great choice.

Although Okanama Walk is a quiet city. I thought it was hopping and popping. It's a wonderful downtown area on the lakefront that we go to often for shopping, walking, and getting coffee. You're telling me there is shopping. There's shopping, hopping, popping, and walking. And coffee. This is the best place ever. I like it already.

Here's three stars. Okonomowoc has a YMCA and a few fitness facilities. However, I really enjoy my gym, Experience Fitness in Brookfield, so I do not work out in Okonomowoc. The quality and convenience of hospital facilities is great. So hospitals and working out is all you care about? What a weird. That's it. Wow.

One star. Grew up here. It was okay then. It was okay then. Nothing impressive. Typical small town. Over the years, however, it's turned into a place filled with condos and Karens. I don't understand where the sense of entitlement comes from.

Ugg. They actually wrote Ugg. Like Charlie Brown. Yeah. Look around. This place isn't great. It's not great. Things to do quickly.

The Okonomowoc Fall Festival is here. Oh, boy. They have vendors. They have all sorts of horse shit going on. They have all kinds of food. BBQ to Bundt cakes, it says. Oh. Yeah.

A lot from B to B. Lobster rolls to donut holes. It's hopping and popping. Oh, boy to donut holes it's hopping and popping oh boy it says it doesn't say hopping and popping there but there's live music on two different stages brought to you by from 1 to 2 p.m the candy cigarettes will be up there oh um from 2 to 4 30 dan lepian so gather around for dan lepian then from 4 30 to 6 30 be a banana wild will be there oh i want that's a big band i want to say banana wild wings when i say that for some reason and then from 7 to 10 three hours jesus christ is smart mouth i don't know what that is and then

the whole time this is all going on the whole whole damn festival, no matter where you are, you could be hit up by this. This is a quote. Up close strolling magic performed by Kirk Patrick. Kirk just wanders around. Let me show you a quarter behind you here. Just pops up and they're like, pick a card. And you're like, get the fuck away from me. I'm eating fried something.

Leave me alone, you weirdo. Wearing a tuxedo in the middle of fucking the fair, you strange person. That said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Yeah. Let's do this. I'd rather. All right. Let's get into this.

Yeah, that festival does not sound good. It's not good. It sounds bad. Three hours of Smartmouth. Are they a Smashmouth cover of smart mouth like are they a smash mouth cover band or what are they that's what i thought too because dan leppian i thought of deaf leopard for some reason i feel like he's a deaf leopard and then banana wind is maybe bananarama cover band and then i don't know what the candy cigarettes are i'm not sure but they play

maybe just george thoroughgood over and over. Yeah, with nobody else. But it's children. 12-year-old George Thorogood impersonators. That would be, I'd watch that, actually. I drink alone. Candy cigarettes didn't do this to our voice. No. That is amazing.

So this murder here, we have to go back in time a bit. So this is going to be a different time here. We're going to go back to 1982. Hey. Here we go. 40 years ago now here. We have to talk about a gentleman named Carl. Carl with a alternately with a C and a K.

I'm not sure which it is because it's in multiple different places as different. Say again? Carl with a C or a K. Not sure. They spell his name different all the time. Yeah. Yeah. The state, the feds.

You guys, this matters. The newspapers. I've seen the same newspapers spell his name differently in additions that were within a week of each other what the fuck so no one has a consensus on this no one asked him hey carl let me get a look at that driver's license real quick no one fucking clarified but how do they how do they get confused and in 40 years no one's figured it out. What's happening? But Carl Beletsky. Jesus.

Akonomowoc Beletsky. This is fucking brutal today. Beletsky. B-E-L-E-T-S-K-Y. Beletsky. Beletsky. Or Beletsky. I don't know if the T is silent or not.

Right. He's 39 years old. Old Carl here. And he. Oh, boy. He's 39 years old, old Carl here, and he's an air conditioner salesman in Wisconsin. Well, yeah. Which is not- That's probably not a good gig. Not the best gig in the world.

It really isn't. You really starve for about seven months. I'm going down to Miami to sell heating. It's going to be great. Oh, no, no, no. We're going to clean up down there. I'll tell you what. The people, they think they're warm, but they're not.

What is this? We're going to sell refrigerators in Alaska. Look, I know the low temperatures, about 41 degrees in June, but there's about three, four days in July, maybe August and mixed in there. You're going to be happy you got this now. I'm just saying. I think it's a good move for the future for us to all do that. I got all the paperwork out in my bag in my truck. It's in my bag.

My bag. Oh, God. I hate that so much. How would you like to be a 39-year-old air conditioning salesman in Okonomowoc in 1982? That doesn't sound like you're smashing up against a glass ceiling or anything and ready to break through. It feels like you're on the bottom floor looking up. It's not good. Yeah.

And nowadays, it's probably not bad because everybody wants air conditioning everywhere because you never know it might be hot one day. But back then, they'd be like, I don't need that. And that might be hot day is fucking sweltering hot. It's sweltering. I mean, you could just go in the basement and be fine, but still.

Somehow that day just creeps up and you're like, what? We weren't prepared for this. It's sticky, too. I know it does get sticky, but it's still not known as a hot spot, Wisconsin. Unless he's selling window units. Then he could be thriving. Also, up north more, I think, is colder. Because Chicago gets fucking hot in the summer sometimes. It's hot and humid.

It's only an hour and a half away in Milwaukee. So, I mean, who knows? It's hot and humid. It's only an hour and a half away in Milwaukee. So, I mean, who knows? But he's had some troubles in his life, much like you'd imagine a 39-year-old air conditioner salesman in Wisconsin in 1982. He's been twice divorced. Okay. He either has – so his name's either spelled with a C or a K, and he either has three daughters or one daughter and one son.

Not sure. What is happening? Again, same publication. How did he slide below the radar? Same publications print completely different background with that in two different successive editions, basically. The census is a failure in Wisconsin. It's terrible.

No one knows anything up there. These reporters are like, I don't know. He's got some kids. We'll go with three daughters, three daughters. And then they just write. It's none of my business. None of my business. I don't know.

I don't want to be nosy. I mean, you know, he's got enough things going on right now. I don't want to be too nosy about it. Journalistic integrity. Who cares? Who cares? We don't want to bring them into this. Who knows?

So either way, he's got the, this either way, he's got two previous marriages. So like I said, two previous marriages. Don't know where the kids came from. But from these marriages. And he has just been remarried again here. Oh, number three. And I say remarried again because this is a number three. I wasn't redundant.

I did that on purpose. Remarried again. So he's marrying number three here at 39. I wasn't redundant. I did that on purpose. Remarried again. So he's marrying number three here at 39. He's marrying. He found Kathleen to marry, and he's ready to go. Kathleen Wallace is her maiden name. She changes it to Beletsky, so she must love him a lot.

And she's 26 years old. Hey, good for you, Carl. So Carl's got a 13-year younger wife, and she makes more money than him, too. She does well. Yeah. He's selling more than air conditioners, James. He's selling his ass off. He's slinging some dick is what he's doing. He's hopping and popping in the bedroom.

He's popping. She's the operations manager at the Bayside branch of the First Wisconsin Bank. So she makes more money than the door-to-door air conditioner salesman here. Awesome. She's the breadwinner, and she lives kind of a cool life. They hang out. Once they get married here, they go to the lake all the time. They have friends that are fancy.

She's got like you know she knows like bank people yeah they're boat people they have boat shit and this he's lucky to be latched on to a to a boat environment because he doesn't have that himself this is all through kathleen so he's got kathleen who's like i said much younger and does better. They got married in Puerto Rico. Is that right? Puerto Rico, baby. And they've been married about 18 months here by mid-1982. Yeah, they've been married about 18 months. They got married down in Puerto Rico.

Went down there, had a nice time. It's her second marriage, his third marriage. So we're going to make this work. Three times two is six. Let's make it go. We don't want to make it any worse. I don't know. That's random as shit.

It sounds like something that you could convince somebody with. You'd be like, three times two is six. Let's do this. And they'd be like, yeah. Excited. And then you'd run. Just fit random numbers out of them. Yeah, you'd fight.

Three times two is six and I like boats. Let's go. Because you can't argue that three times two is not six. You're like, it is six. Yeah. So I don't know why you said that, but you must have had a reason. And it'll make somebody think that maybe they're wrong, I feel like, as possibly. I'm talking about if you were like charging.

Like, we have to charge this wall, man. We have to do this. You'd be like, three times two is six. Let's go. They'd be like, fuck yeah to do this and be like three times two is six let's go they'd be like fuck yeah they'd run you could three times two is six let's make this boat float yeah if you had to like like lead people in a yeah in a charge that's how you do it maybe not to marry somebody but you know that's that's a little ruin your fucking life it's a little more manipulative here. But Kathleen is from Milwaukee. That's where she's born.

Born and raised. She's born in 1955. Her parents are Arnold and Barbara Wallace. In 1974, January 19th, 1974, she married Timothy H. Tynus. Yeah. T-I-N-U-S. Tynus, which sounds like tiny penis to me. Or tiny anus. Or tiny anus or tiny anus which is you know what arguably worse to live with a tiny anus your whole life yeah to constantly be like

oh god it's excruciating every time i poop i'd rather have a little dick i think you would dread thanksgiving that's what i mean you dread. Your whole life would be miserable at that. Every day you'd be like, oh, I got to poop at some point. This is going to be horrible. Just crying, crying about how delicious this food is and I want to eat more. Jesus Christ. I'd rather have a- Then why are you crying again?

I'd rather have a tiny dick, definitely. Wouldn't you? Yeah, because urine's through it. Yeah, you can figure that out yeah you can figure that out i'll make that work you know what i'm saying but the tiny tiny anus that's that's going to be rough always have a tiny penis with a giant dick hole or a giant penis with a tiny dick hole i don't think the whole why would a lot why would a tiny dick with a large hole be advantageous to me? My dick's tiny, but wow, you should see my piss stream.

It comes like a fire hose. I got a string the size of a quarter. What are you talking about? But what if it was just like a pinhole? You know those stir straws? You ever try to breathe through one of those? I had a friend who had to have his urethra stretched once a year. Fuck! Once a year, he'd go to the doctor to have things jammed in his cock for like six hours.

He'd have to sit there while it stretched out his dick hole. He'd die away in his dick hole. Or else he couldn't pee it closed up on him that's that's a nightmare you had a giant dick you had to do that every three months that sounds terrible i don't know why i'd have to think about that by the end of the show i'll have an answer i don't want that stream though although people would like hearing in the bathroom be like jesus he's got a hose in there. Nobody would know.

Either way, I don't know if Timothy Tynus had a tiny penis or tiny anus. I hope both. I hope both. The tiny penis, tiny anus man. It's really a bad life. They end up having a son together, those two, so she has a child as well. Everybody says that Kathleen's very funny. She's a very funny lady, and that also helps her at work, too.

She's very good with people. She's good. Her sister said, wherever she was, you'd laugh. She's going to make you laugh all the time. Her sister, Janine her janine peters is her name she recalled the night when kathleen invited janine and janine's husband who is was a police officer at the time invited them over for dinner with her and carl here her new kathleen's new bow the air conditioner man and uh janine Peters, the sister, said, quote, I came in and he was sitting there.

How dare he? Look at him just sitting there in his own home. Look at him happy. Look at you. It was like this cold draft came in and grabbed us, both of us. I begged her not to marry him. She married him anyway. So the family does not like

her him at all immediately yeah off the bat which yeah he's icy but it's a strange thing because out of everyone that we'll ever hear from the sister's the only person that says he's icy so i don't know if he just didn't like the sister or maybe she talked to the sister a lot and he was jealous or some sad shit like that. I don't know. That's possible. He's got a cop friend of his, a cop friend of his who was a sheriff's deputy who later would ask to be not identified for this quote. He called Carl a, quote, ladies man. He's a ladies man and always made a good first impression, which he is a ladies man oh he's a ladies man and always made a first good a good first impression

which he is a ladies man if he's a 39 year old guy who's not like you know doesn't have a ton of money and he's he's pulling fucking 26 year olds with good jobs that's right he's pretty impressive he's a ladies man i'm sorry that dude he should be a salesman i hope maybe you know what he probably still does very well he can sell air conditioners in Wisconsin. It's like a weird idiom. Like, yeah, he sells them in January, in January in Wisconsin. I can sell an, I can sell a popsicle to an Eskimo type of guy. And he's, you know, one of the, one of those old men. Hey, I can, no, I could do it. I could sell to anybody. I sell a popsicle to an Eskimo. I tell you from the forties or something in here, catch a popsicle to a lady in white gloves. Yeah. That's the other one. Catch a popsicle to an Eskimo, I tell you. From the 40s or something in here.

Catch a popsicle to a lady in white gloves. Yeah, that's the other one. Catch a popsicle to a lady in white gloves. You'd sell the, like John Candy, I picture doing that in planes, trains, and automobiles. Yeah, the shower rings guy. I'm the best shower ring guy in the world, let me tell you. So, the ladies, man. Other acquaintances also said that, and a bunch of these are he hangs out a lot of cops carl does they know yeah it seems like there's already an abundance of them in the story yeah

her brother-in-law his brother-in-law is a cop and then like a lot of his friends are cops so i don't know if the only only cops live out here this is like cop land wisconsin or what ed kemper yeah that's kind of like what you what it feels, but I guess that's just who is in the family and shit like that. So they said that he kind of, Carl kind of withdrew and stopped hanging out after he got married 18 months before, about 18 months into it. They're like, hey, you notice Carl hasn't been around for like a year and a half, doesn't come around, but he's got like a young wife. So what the hell does he need you for? That's probably why. All you guys talk about is cop stuff.

She has a 26-year-old vagina that i enjoy this is wonderful so they move into their house here um they move into their house they live here about a year in 1982 it's in stone bank is the name of the town it's an unincorporated there's no like statistics or anything like that so it's you know on the border of okanawa walk so we'll keep it there so they moved in and they have a nice home uh but in the last few months they've been having some marital difficulties we'll say yeah they've been having some difficulties and he told a friend that he was super worried that kathleen was going to leave him and that he was worried that she was seeing another man and he was very upset. He said that he quote has never been under such pressure before

in his entire life. That's the other part about having a younger woman. That's yeah. He's under a lot of pressure. Yeah. I go out to do an install. I come back. I don't know where she's been. Who knows? She's younger, hotter, makes more money. She doesn't need me, and I got to make sure that she needs me. I got a tiny dick with a giant pee hole. I don't have a lot going for me right now. I got to create problems and solve them to keep her. This is bad. He kept talking about how devastated.

He kept using the word devastated. He said how devastated he would be if she left him. And, um, she, uh, his wife though, Kathleen has been telling her friends that she is seeing another man and she wants to end the marriage after 18 months. So that's, that's a quick one. Yeah, that's a quick one. Then we'd be going to four and three, which is a lot lot so um this night here september 20th uh 1982 they're in they live together and everything like that but he suspects that she's seeing somebody else and and he just want he's just waiting for her to confirm it he knows what's going on and she knows what's going on and it's this whole thing is kind of about to resolve itself.

And, you know, it's going to be over with here. So this night she tells him, he says, what's going on? And she says, I'm leaving this night right now. I'm packing my things and I'm going to stay with another man. Yeah. So he obviously, I mean, anybody would be upset by that. Clearly. Devastated is a great word for that.

Anybody, whoever you're with, if they're like, I'm going with somebody else right now, goodbye, you'd be like, what the fuck? Oh, no. So the thing is how you react to that. You still have to react with some dignity. Yeah. Keep your dignity about you realize it's not up to you a lot of ways you can react you can crumble into a piss and tear puddle uh which you can then dignity's out the window that's what i mean you can just you can try to

hold it together for a while there's a lot of ways to do it but the thing you don't do is you don't pull out a gun well and and put it under your chin and threaten to blow your brains out. That's one thing you don't do. Oh, for Christ's sake. That's a little much. So he said, life's not worth living anymore. If you leave me, all I have is my air conditioners and two, maybe three kids. I'm not sure.

Hasn't been decided yet. I could have a daughter out there. Do you understand? We don't know. I could have three sons. That's wild. Think about that. So he's holding the gun under his chin,

and he's saying life's not going to be worth living anymore. He can't take it. It's all over. So then he says that uh quote she went for the gun and she pulled it away from me like away from his chin is what he claims like she grabbed it and was like you know don't blow your head off in the living room don't do that i'd like to get half of this house it's not going to be worth as much that sex is not going to be as good later on tonight if i have the image yeah of your viscer this house and not have to clean this house it's going to cost a lot to scrape brains off the wall

so um it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He says at this moment there was, she pulled it away, he kind of pulled it back, he says, to try to, like, no, no, I'm going to blow my brains out. And then she pulled it again, this time with both hands, and apparently there was quite the struggle for this gun and in the struggle for the gun it goes off somehow no and shoots her right in the face yeah right in the face of course yeah it goes yeah obviously whenever a gun discharge it goes right in your forehead so that's how it works

so he goes okay fuck i just shot my wife in the face she did well technically yeah i mean i was holding the gun i brought it out but she pulled it over i mean obviously this is mostly her fault obviously is what he's he's thinking in his mind. But still he says, oh, I felt terrible now. What do I do? I shot her in the face. And he said, she's just such a beautiful woman, and I don't want anybody to see her all shot in the face. This is terrible.

Look at her. She's shot in the face. She's not as, you know. It's tragic. It's tragic. So he says, I have to fix this tragic so he says i have to fix this so what do you do to fix this you know you don't want her to be seen you don't want her her beautiful face to be seen all marred by a bullet so what's he gonna do james what you do is you go to the kitchen

and you get the biggest fucking knife you can find. You get the biggest, grossest butcher knife that you can find. The one that if you had like a big roast and you needed to like cut it into like a big ribeye roast and you wanted to make prime rib sections out of it, you'd get that knife. The one you never let the kids use on their own. Yeah, that giant knife where they go, can I cut something?

And you go, no, get away from it! Are you out of your mind? That was that knife. You'll take your hand off at the wrist. Yeah, training. Until you watch the video. Jesus. Have you read La Technique? No?

No? You fucking, no, you're not touching it. That is actually a very old school knife knife work book actually that chefs like so um he got the biggest goddamn knife he could find and he goes back in to the living room where she is and he takes this giant butcher knife and he cuts her head off with it what he cuts her fucking head off with a butcher knife not a chainsaw not a sawzall not of a butcher knife he just took her head and that ruins all uh accidental shit out of this sir but he doesn't want anyone to see her you know her face marred so if he takes her head that's better now her body's still fine

look see see she's not a mark on her right head what head did she have a head this morning i don't think she had a head she woke up without a head today i don't know what you're talking about what a what a choice and they said it seemed like it was in one stroke. So somehow. Oh, Lord. He must have had a very sharp knife and somehow just fucking zipped her head right off like he was taking a halibut halibut fillet off the fish or something. Just whoop. Unbelievable. Absolutely. It's fucking insane. So now he's got his wife in two parts.

So now he's got his wife in two parts. Poor Kathleen has now been shot in the face and killed. And her head is now removed from her body. So now he's got a body and a head. Now what do you do? What do you do? You can claim accidentally I accidentally shot her in the face, but not when her head is in a separate part of the house than her body. You can't say I shot her and her head fell off.

That's not going to work. Right. And also, the rest of the room is a mess right now. Oh, this place is a fucking... It's everywhere. It's a disaster. Yeah. Yeah. Just shooting someone in the face will do a lot of mess.

Right. But then when you cut a head off, ooh boy, there's a lot of blood that comes out and stuff. Yeah. Let's open a soda can sideways. Yep. He said, quote, I didn't want anyone to see her that way later on.

So he said, okay, well, here's what I'll do. I will take my wife's head and I'll bring it downstairs in the basement where I have a nice wood stove that gets good and hot. And he put her head in the wood stove and burned it. Jesus. He put her whole head in the wood stove and just placed it in there. So beautiful. I can't let anyone see her like this. I'm going to burn her head.

So he sat there in the basement while the head burned. And it takes a long time. You get a wood stove hot. You have to get a fire really hot to do anything to a human body. That stove's got to glow. It's got to be absolutely hot to the touch from everything, or hot from near it. So he just sat there and started drinking liquor while he watched his wife's head burn. Got himself good and drunk, but then he ran out of liquor.

Right. He's not a big drinker, I guess, so he didn't have a lot of liquor on hand so he's like or or he can drink all of it like everybody else i was gonna say or he's just from wisconsin up drink they drank up drank the whole bar oh boy i gotta go to the store now i tell you what anybody need anything well i'm getting for a new bar obviously i'm getting a case but i'm talking about bottles, anything like that. Right. Case of whiskey. Just curds then?

Okay. Boy, do they drink. They drink a lot up there. They love it, but they're actually, they hold their booze well up there. Yes. It's not like New Orleans or Tampa where people are stumbling around throwing up in the street. These people can drink a lot, and then they're like, all right, then have a good one. They walk away with no coat on in 22-degree weather, and you're just like, wow.

And they're just all, they got it. They're walking straight. They're not shivering. They all say, see you tomorrow. Like, it's guaranteed. Yeah. Oh, see you tomorrow. You think so, huh?

You just drank everything. What are you talking about, see you tomorrow? And now you're walking around in sub-zero temperatures with inadequate clothing. And you're going to drive, too. What makes you think we're going to see you tomorrow. And now you're walking around in sub-zero temperatures with inadequate clothing. And you're going to drive, too. What makes you think we're going to see you tomorrow? What makes... Wow. You might have hypothermia and death before you get to your car.

Oh, shit. Oh, my God. And you're just going to go. So, sorry we've been a little going on a couple of tangents here, but this is rough stuff here. He saws her head off. So he ran out of liquor, so he drove to the store to get more liquor. Shit-faced after he saw his wife's head off. He's like, I'm going to go to the liquor store.

He got to the liquor store. He must have been drunk because by the time he got there, he realized he didn't have enough money to buy liquor. He was low on money. So he, quote, just bought some cigarettes instead. That's not a replacement for liquor, but OK. Something to do, I guess. Yeah. So he returned home and now he's got his wife's head all burnt up in the wood stove.

Yeah. And he then is like, well, shit, I got to do something with this fucking body. I have a headless body. So then he takes his wife's body, drags it out to the garage, lifts it up, stuffs it in the trunk of his car, and thinks, what do I do? So he drives to a cornfield about two, two and a half miles away from his house. There's a cornfield in the middle of nowhere. It's on the side of the highway. He pulls over, pulls the car over.

Now he's scared, obviously, because he's on the side of the highway with a headless fucking woman. So that's a problem. And we'll find out how she's found too. It's, you know, he's not, It wouldn't look normal if you saw this. We'll put it that way. It's almost as if a drunk man dumped a body. It's almost as if a drunk man decided on how to have a murder dismount.

You need to be excessively sober to work on your murder dismount. You can't be liquored up. He drags it out of the car into a cornfield, not very far, a couple of feet from the road, essentially, not far at all, and just dumps it. Or dumps her. Dumps Kathleen's headless body there. Gets back in his car, goes home. So he's like, whoop, did that. I guess that's good.

I guess we're done with that. Got rid of that. All done. Well, she won't be leaving me now. Okay, well, now what? She's still gone, you fucking idiot. I don't understand killing people that are going to leave you. I don't get it.

For what? Fuck can't have her. Nobody can. Right. Why? That thing is weird. It's a weird. That's a psychological thing that I have a lot of weird.

I have enough weird shit in my head, but not that particular weird thing. That's a weird. that's a psychological thing that I just, I have a lot of weird, I have enough weird shit in my head, but not that particular weird thing. That's a weird, it's so foreign. It's so weird. It is strange. I don't get that at all. You don't like that person or they don't like you. Why would you want to be around that? I don't get it.

Yeah. When you're done with someone, they should just not exist anymore to you. Right. Why do you need to kill them? You can do that with your mind, you know. But even. You can do the same thing with your mind. You can do mind in your bed and not break a sweat never just in your mind they don't exist never mop up blood ever poof done no wood stoves to me dead to me it i just i

can't i can't fathom that why i want to be in a in a whether or not you're done with them if they're done with you dude that, that's crazy. Yeah, I don't get it. This makes no sense at all. And he's a ladies' man. This is his third wife. He'll find somebody else. Right.

But we'll find out, too. You'll find somebody else to not like you. He definitely didn't want his lifestyle to end, though. He liked his lifestyle. He liked doing all this stuff. But if she's dead, then that's going to be weird. Boats really are cool, man. This is how cool boats are, I guess.

I don't know. I don't have a boat. So now I really want a boat because apparently, wow. They are fucking amazing. So he dumps it. He goes home. Later on, he'll say, some friends knew we were having marital problems, and if I told them what happened, they would never even believe me.

That's what he'll say later on so the next day kathleen's found because he just left it on left her on the side of the highway with no head so that that'll stand out you know um bicyclists just biking by went hey what's that holy shit a body it was on uh 67 north about 100. This is the fucked up part. 67 North is the road. It was found 100 yards from where three years earlier a woman named Stephanie R. Peterson was found. Two drunk men have the same idea. It's fucking insane right there. Now, Kathleen obviously has no head. She's only wearing a bra and torn pantyhose.

And I assume that's from being dragged to the garage, put in a trunk, taken out, dragged through a cornfield. That'll tear your pantyhose. Man handled by a drunk man will fuck your legs pantyhose up. And her bra, he took her clothes off? What are you doing? Why would you do that? To make it look the only thing i think is that would make it look like somebody abducted her and did terrible things to her or something so but that also makes lens for a crazier discovery when you walk up on a you walk up on a full fully clothed body minus a head it's

not near as scary oh that's terrifying holy shit is that he did he have sex with her corpse it doesn't in 1982 they would keep that pretty tight-lipped yeah they weren't especially in wisconsin and that's another thing that where if they think they got him dead to rights they might not come up because that would freak people out and all that kind of thing so i don't know but why would you take she't know, but why would you take – she has no underwear on. Why would you take her underwear off? She's got torn pantyhose. Yeah, torn pantyhose and a bra.

That's – why would you do that? That's not cool at all. That's bizarre. She was wearing two rings on her left hand. One ring was her wedding ring, um it was shaped like a rosebud and had appeared to be had small diamonds in the middle the other ring was on her little finger and it appeared to have the initial k embossed on it's a little k ring because she's kathleen oh she's kathleen yeah so they knew right away okay this isn't a robbery she's got diamonds on

her hands that's not no one's gonna rob someone cut their head off and leave diamonds behind so the the body of the other woman by the way that mrs peterson who was killed it was in 1979 she was found stabbed to death out there and the guy ended up being arrested for it and is was serving a life sentence for it when this happened so right away they saw that and they were like holy shit this is the same place and they did some checking guy either because the cops were like did they fucking let that guy out or something like what the fuck happened and they were like no he's in prison since then okay well this is a totally different scenario then so they figure out who she is uh they figure out it's kathleen and they go obviously to the, and it's a rural house, too.

It's not, it's kind of out there. So this was like two miles even farther out there that he put her. So, Jesus Christ. Oh, this is about, oh, Stephanie Peterson, the guy who killed her, was named Edward R. Wolfe Jr. Of course. Sounds like a murderer. He was a 22-year- worker who was who killed her.

And I guess. Are you telling me, James, there's bopping, shopping, hopping and cropping and cropping. There's cropping, Jimmy. You know, there's cropping. The guy was a wall from Fort Bragg at the time that he did that. So that's how that went. So where is the the head police end up going to carl and the first thing they want to know when they will talk about this they they get to him

and they go hey uh found your wife's headless body in a cornfield just to let you know and he freaked out and he was like oh my god oh my god he was very you know he said oh my god it just can't be her it can't be her that's what he kept saying over and over again it can't be her so then the cop said well do you mind if we look around because maybe she was taken from here we got to look and see if there's anything and he said absolutely you know do whatever you need to do yeah free reign search whatever you want go ahead so they did that they searched the home and the garage. They found what appeared to be blood on the carpets in a second floor master bedroom

in the hallway and the steps and all the way out to basically a trail to the trunk of his car. There's just a blood trail leading from the bedroom to his trunk. Where he presumably just fell asleep last night where he's like passed out at the wheel yeah so not great that's not good search anywhere you want except my bedroom up there stairs all the way he did clean up it's not just oh you know just a blood trail he cleaned up a lot but there's still fucking visible blood and if you're a dude he took the he took the head off a woman yeah it's i mean if you're it's everywhere if you're a homicide detective investigating a headless person you're good at finding blood

probably you're looking for blood you're not just oh hey what's that you see fucking blood everywhere so they uh they said okay what's what's going on they noticed the blood trails they found 18 spots of what appeared to be blood on the apron of the driveway. That's where they first noticed it. And they were like, we're going to ask him to search this fucking place. And that's how that happened. It's all over the driveway, several rooms in the house, the trail to the car. It's not good.

They also find a hacksaw blade, which they think might have he used to decapitate her at first. Then later on they discover it's a kitchen knife. It wasn't a hacksaw blade which they think might have used to decapitate her at first then later on they discover it's a kitchen knife it wasn't a hacksaw blade so uh one police officer here said uh yeah he found the 18 spots of blood and they also saw what appeared to be hair clumps in some areas as well and then they noticed also some kind of cleaning powder in front of the garage there's just some powder over stuff like he thought that was gonna fix it laundry detergent or something uh one yeah one sheriff's department detective said that a quote red substance was found on the garage floor and the substance was covered by a white powder that appeared to be kitchen kitchen cleanser he just put some comet on it yeah throw

some sprinkle ajax it cleans the stove yeah and it also it's also even more stands out more than blood a giant white pile of shit they just moved it aside with their foot and they were like oh there's blood under there holy shit so then they they checked the whole house and they searched the basement somebody pops the wood house and they search the basement. Somebody pops the wood stove and goes, holy shit, I think we found the head, everybody. They find what they later describe as teeth and apparent skull fragments in the wood stove. They pile that up. They said that someone tried to clean these items out after they were burned.

You could tell they were mixed in with ashes and shit. Kind of like a drunk guy tried to clean the bones out after they were burned. You could tell they were mixed in with ashes and shit. Kind of like a drunk guy tried to clean the bones out of a wood stove. That looks like all of them. And then he lit another cigarette. So, fuck. The autopsy, the deputy coroner said that he says that Kathleen

was dead before someone began removing her head. So, that's good to know anyway. They said that she died of a blow to the head or neck, of a blow to the head or a neck wound. He has no idea. So they bring in somebody else. They bring in Dr. Robert Huntington III.

They're like, he sounds way more impressive than you, Paul. The other guy's name was Paul Hubbard. If you die, who you want looking in with? Paul Hubbard or Dr. Robert Huntington III? Huntington sounds great. Yeah. It sounds like his grandfather was a doctor and so was his father.

I trust this guy. He says that Kathleen had inhaled a large amount of blood before she died. Oh, no. She was shot in the face and probably in her sinus cavity, which would drip into her lungs, and she probably had that sort of thing. So they said that before she died, probably due to a smashing or penetrating injury to the head or neck. Okay.

That's how they could tell because they only have the bottom half to go by and a couple of bone fragments and some teeth for the head. So they can't see a big hole in the face or anything. They said the cause of death was in the head and neck because there isn't anything else elsewhere that's sufficient. The rest of the body's fine, so they don't get it. So he also says that the victim was decapitated, quote, in a clean sweeping motion and added that there were several other cuts around the neck, though, which indicated there were some interruptions in the cutting, which happens a lot. You'll see anytime, even with serial killers, you'll see a lot of wounds that are very shallow, that they're just they're they're trying to get the the moxie up to do it.

So he might as he might have started at one spot and went, no, that's the wrong spot and moved. No, that's the wrong spot. No, that's the right spot. Yeah. So, yikes. They said that the this pathologist said that decapitation could have been done with a butcher's knife. Some such as the one the police say they found under a seat in his car. He just he didn't even throw it into the field. You could get under the seat. A butcher knife big enough to cut a head off with. You could get some distance on that if you threw it like a fucking discus.

You could really backhand it out into a cornfield. You could really whip that shit out there. He just said, I'll just put it under the seat. It's fine. They'll never find it. They'll never find it because it's under my seat and nobody ever looks there. I don't see it.

Do you see it? I've never looked under my seat before, so I don't think they will either. Matter of fact, when I put it under there, I found a French fry. I haven't had a French fry in eight years. It was good, too. I had it again.

It was cold, so I think it's good. Still crunchy. Crunchy. Crunchy. Still between your teeth. Wisconsin, Culver's should offer that as an option. That would be amazing. Sweet potato, curly, regular, or under the seat fries?

Which ones do you want? Y'all want the under the seat fries? Which ones do you want? Y'all want the under the seat fries? Under the seat. Under the seat. Fries are more munchy. Down with the crunchy. Under the seat. There, we just made your commercial, Culver's.

That's a great thing. Congratulations. The shit out of it. Get Sebastian to sing it? God damn it. Under the seat. Just a little, just a knockoff. It doesn't even have to be Sebastian.

That's amazing. Culvers, where are you? Reach out, Culvers. We'll do the commercial for you. Side with your lunch. Reach under the seat. Under the seat. Fries are more munchy. Down with the crunchy. Under the seat fries are more munchy down where they're crunchy

oh my god they said that uh uh if the if they this is this doctor said if the assailant was strong and strong and was able to have his or her arms fully extended and descending with force when it hit the neck. So he could kind of just do one big, oh, God, just cut through it. Jesus. A Kenneth A. Bennett, a University of Wisconsin biological anthropologist, testified that the bones in the woods burning stove in the home did belong to a human 12 years or older, but he could not determine the sex or race of the person because

it's just bones. So they arrest him, obviously. Sure. They arrest his stupid ass. They set his bail at $150,000, which doesn't even seem exactly right. That's what I'm saying. But the two public defenders he has, they asked that the bail be reduced so he could get out.

No. Like, he can't afford that. They said that, quote, if he remains incarcerated, he could get out. No. Like, he can't afford that. They said that, quote, if he remains incarcerated, he could lose his job. The job is a moot point now. He's going to prison. The job is there.

Will he lose it if he goes to prison? He cut his wife's head off. What are you talking about? The penalty for that is a lot of no-call, no-shows for several years. Your Honor, he's going to have to use pto i mean

this is crazy he's he's built that up he's got a fishing trip planned next year he's planning on does he have what are you talking about pto equivalent to 20 to life what is happening yeah this is what are we talking about ridiculous the judge said no 150 is good after all this crime is a quote an alleged horrid act of violence so we're gonna go ahead and hang on to him for a while if you can't do that so that didn't work out uh they did grant the request that television crews be forbidden from filming him in handcuffs in the courtroom he had a request that he only be shown this guy he looks way older than he is i'll show you a picture of him in there there's this picture of him in court like pointing at a, he looks way older than he is. I'll show you a picture of him in there. There's this picture of him in court, like, pointing at a chart.

He looks like he's 58. He's got all gray hair. He's got glasses. You're like, what the fuck is going on? This guy does not look like a 39-year-old who bangs a 26-year-old by any stretch. So very, very strange. They said that all the court reporters said he looked listless while he was while this was going on he's just sitting there i don't know what that emotion is

i just know it's in a pearl jam song yeah looking sad he's looking sad so yeah he's he said though in uh later on jesus fucking christ there when he talked to the cops, he said, quote, I was just trying to scare her. She grabbed the gun. It just went off. And they said, why'd you cut her head off? He said, well, he didn't want anybody to see her the way she was. She was such a beautiful person. And they said, well, then why'd you burn her head?

And he said, because he didn't want anybody to see her that way, obviously. Dude, seeing her the other way is so much worse. You think? Burning? What was it like when it burst into flames? Was that better? Obviously, dude, seeing her the other way is so much worse. It's you think burning. What was it like when it burst into flames? Was that better when her face and head burst into fucking flames? That's insanity. Headless in a bra and pantyhose in a field is so much, so much worse. The most terrifying thing ever.

Yeah, that's something like a Halloween decoration. That's terrifying. You know, even there, you'd have to have underwear on it for fuck's sake. He said some friends we were knew we were having problems. But, you know, that's it. Because they kept asking about that. They said, well, what about the gun? It's a 32 caliber revolver.

He said he's had it for 16 years. It's just his old gun that he kept in the closet. He threw it into a lake afterwards. So one of his friends or one of a close friend of the family, said, quote, I'll never believe he did it. The only way I'd ever believe it is if he looked me in the eye and told me straight out, but I don't believe he's the type of guy

that would ever say that. I don't think he'll ever tell me. You can just have some real... You can really separate your brain from reality when you want to. When you want to believe something. See what I'm saying?

We've talked about shit before and we're like how come people can't stop with conspiracy theories? Because this guy doesn't believe that this fucking happened even though he fucking said so. He said I won't believe it until he tells me personally. He's the judge under oath. He put another obstacle put another oh you know

obstacle to it right for me to believe it uh that is wild carl's dad who's still around he said quote there aren't any answers to this i've been groping for days really that's the term you're gonna use i've been groping for while i've been trying to figure this out i just went to the mall and started touching kids and teenagers and grabbing tits and asses and single moms and whoever i get my hands on it's it didn't help oddly enough i've been twisting nipples all day it's nothing to the truth i gave a chick a wedgie i got nothing i don't get it he said it's a horrible it's just a horrible thing that happened it's unexplainable it's pretty explainable this guy fucking got jealous and lost his goddamn mind um they his attorney by the way or her attorney she she wanted a divorce she first called him in august to discuss

a possible divorce and this attorney james eilman he said she she called again September 15th or 16th and asked for an appointment as soon as possible. He told her he couldn't see her until the 22nd of September, which is the day after this happened. Oh, shit. So she had an appointment, but not that getting a divorce would have stopped this at all. So, yeah, he said you could see the disappointment in her face when I told her that, but he didn't know why she was so, you know, insistent on seeing him sooner. But he said she certainly didn't suggest to me that she was physically afraid of Carl and no one said that he was that kind of guy. So it was weird. He makes a motion that he should be let go.

not only is he going to lose his job, but he said the complaint was defective because several statements allegedly made by him were hearsay. I don't know how he can say things that he did being, it would be hearsay. I don't know how that works. You guys weren't there. I have to relay what happened to you. Yeah.

I guess he's saying the cops wrote in the report what he said. A cop's report is hearsay, but it's also the report. So he said it was unclear how the district attorney received information from several people named in the complaint. In other words, witnesses. Yeah, that means detectives went and talked to them would be my guess of how they got the information. You can't make guesses. It has to be cut in dry chains. And he said they searched his home without warrants.

So based on all that, even though they found his headless wife and then blood all over the driveway, that looks like it was being cleaned up also. At that point, you don't really need a warrant because – That's a probable cause, right? Well, not really because she's already dead, but you don't know if there's other people in there. He could have five other people hostage in there.

That's a gray area, but they're saying they asked him, and he said, no problem. Do whatever you want. So he says the charge should be dismissed. Just dismiss the whole thing, and we'll call. Look, no hard feelings, okay? You don't get upset. I don't get upset. Everybody's fine.

Come back with better evidence? Is that what he's saying? That's it. Yeah, just come back another time. They asked whether the officers asked permission to look through the house and he said not to my knowledge he also said he didn't give them permission to search the car but he didn't stop them from searching so he didn't say like you know don't search but yeah whatever he fires his public attorneys and gets a another lawyer here so he gets that march 83 is the trial he uh the district attorney says that he was distraught because he was going to lose his life

and his wife and it would upset his lifestyle he said quote no more lake friends no more life in the fast lane everything that man relished would be gone it's tough to give away no more 26 year old tits none of these things it's all over in his mind bouncing on suck my wake yeah bouncing on jet skis in the fucking the worst while you're crappie fishing yeah good stuff with this face oh man uh so they said that statements that kathleen made about her marriage will not be admitted as evidence. So that's huge. So anything she said, if she told her sister that I'm afraid of him, that can't come in. That's that's big. That's a big one. Statements. They called them volatile of the sire. Sorry. Violative of the right of confrontation because she's not here.

So, wow. Anyway, he gets in here and he admits, he testifies, he has to admit that he killed her and decapitated her. Wow. His lane is very small here. His lane is that,

his whole fucking case is, I shot her because she grabbed the gun by accident and went off. Total accident. So I got scared. Didn't want people to see her like that. Cut her head off. Got drunk. And then I was too scared to call 911, which is a terrible argument to make in court.

I don't get where you're. So how are why are we here? I would say, why don't you just say guilty? You just described guilty. Right. What you just described is a guilty plea. What are we talking about? So, yes.

Yep. So he said she went for the gun, tried to pull it away from me. They bring the head bones and teeth in. They show that to the jury. There's a big objection over that. They made a big deal. They put it on a table in the courtroom and they were like, that's Kathleen's head now. It's like three bone fragments and some teeth.

The jury is seven men and five women. They deliberate for fewer than six hours and that's including like what, six, eight beers probably in there. So that's a short amount of time and they find him guilty of first degree murder yeah yeah obviously yeah this is the weirdest thing is they had a big trial he's testifying

at some point he had to turn to his lawyer and go what's the plan here exactly what do you have a plan oh you thought i had the plan no no i thought you had the plan. No, no, no. I thought you had the plan. What's going on? It's like Bundy going and being like, I got a thing for young girls. Yeah. I just have to murder them after. Obviously. I cut their heads off and I have sex with them after that. You know how it is.

No, we don't, Ted. So not guilty. Not guilty, yeah. No. What is? Jesus Christ, you jackass. Oh, Wisconsin's wild. That's amazing. that's just a wild thing to go to court you think the whole jury would just be like shrugging their shoulders looking around are we missing

something or something why are we here he just not guilty i killed her i cut her head off i didn't want people to see her like that because she was going to go fuck another guy okay so guilty i got a man is to sell i gotta go can we just change your plea maybe so during the sentencing uh he reiterated again that he'd been pointing the weapon at his own head in a suicide threat to hope from to dissuade her from leaving him for another man. He then says to the judge, quote, it was an accident. It turned into a very serious tragedy. That's an understatement. No kidding.

A very gross tragedy. And the judge comes back with, even though circumstantial, the multitude of evidence is satisfactory. You have to live with your God. This is one of the saddest days in the history of Waukesha County. You have to live with your God. This is one of the saddest days in the history of Waukesha County. You, sir,

may fuck off. Life in prison and no beer. No beer and life. That's extra stank in Wisconsin. No Miller Lite for you. You can go to prison, but they all have a beer sponsor. There's a tap.

Let the guys have a couple. You gotta let them lift a couple. You know what I mean? But not there. Not you, pal. You're not getting it after the PBR death row, PBR death row. So he wants a new trial that is denied. He has a motion for a new trial based on very little. He said that the the the prosecutor the judge erred when he gave the jury a choice of only finding him guilty of first degree murder or acquitting him and they said no that's what it was so fuck you then he appeals for a shorter sentence in 1989 it's like come on shorter sentence based on what i have no idea he said that he the reason he's seeking the action was to provide custody options and not to escape punishment i don't know what that is uh so then he has an

appeal against transfer they're going to transfer him to a private prison facility which i actually know a shitload about um it's uh CCA is the company corrections corporation of America is the private thing they want to do. Uh, American prison by Shane Bauer is a book about a journalist who got a job as a CEO at win, uh, win in Winnefield, uh, win correctional facility facility in Winnefield, Louisiana. That's owned by CCA company. Yeah. And the corrections officers made nine dollars an hour. They didn't give a fuck about the prisoners or what happened to them. Or I mean, it was I've read he wants to go. I've read. No, no. That's where they're sending him. And he's suing

to not get sent there because they don't have any they don't have any of the things that he's been doing. They have no programs. They have nothing because it's it's for profit. So there So it's stripped to the fucking bone. They don't even let the prisoners out a lot of the times in this book they're talking about because they're understaffed because they just don't want to pay people. And it takes electricity to open those gates. We can't afford that. They say that he's participating in a federally structured post-traumatic stress disorder treatment counseling program through the Madison, Wisconsin Veterans Center. And the counseling sessions provide ongoing treatment by examining complex issues extending from his childhood through his military service. And the Corrections Corporation of America prisons do not provide post-traumatic stress disorder on-site treatment. So he is

begging not to go there. I don't think he ended up going there, actually. I think he won that one because it's not to the standards of Wisconsin, I guess. So August 20th, 2019, he is paroled. They let him out. What? I mean, he is like 80 years old, but still, they let him out. They let him the fuck out.

Janine, Kathleen's sister, is fucking pissed. She's real pissed. I'm livid. She said it was sneaky. No, I got nothing. I got nothing. I think it was done underhandedly under the radar. She said she wasn't notified of the parole hearing.

Wow. Now, this is all actually by the law, though. She actually did commercials against the governor at the time for this, saying he was the one that did it. But in the end, it's just the law he was sentenced under. But fine print doesn't make good political commercials. You know what I mean? It just doesn't. Outrage is very good. Because I'm outraged.

We're all outraged. I can't imagine. He shouldn't have got out. He should be in Miller Lite Gen pop for the rest of his life. But instead, it's just they changed the law in 2000. He got sentenced under the previous sentencing guidelines. So it's nothing you could change. You can't retroactively go back and change things.

So be mad at whoever was in charge in 1981. Not that I don't even know who the fuck is in charge now. I'm not saying I'm not. I'm not touting for anybody. It's not political. I'm just either way. So they said that nobody got any notice. Kathleen's sister said the woman said, don't you know he's been out? I thought, OK, it would have been nice if somebody told me. She says that she She believes, by the way, that her head was cut off before she was dead. Oh, God.

She insists. She said she doesn't believe she was shot. She believes that she was bludgeoned or had her throat cut, and then he cut her head off and threw it in the stove in the basement. He's talking about Carl. She says he lies and lies and lies, and he's still lying. She believes the parole commission waited to free carl until the prosecutor turned judge who handled the case retired yeah because he wouldn't come and do that uh they said they knew i was always the one writing and going i've been doing it since

1983 every time he was up for parole they sent me a letter one time i actually sat there i was thinking wow it's been a long time and they haven't sent anything so i called the girl and she said you didn't know they let him out I never expected him to see the light of day. I mean, what? I don't get it. I don't get it. Why should he be out? He got life. I don't get it. I really don't get it. Uh, then she says, I blame the parole guy. She also blames the governor for appointing the parole guy, uh, and all of that. She says, what does he care if it's an election and he wants votes? And if that's the way he's got to do it?

You know, that's what she said. He was let out because he was subject. The parole rules were in place before the year 2000 when they changed the law, making him eligible for parole after serving 25 percent of his sentence and needing to meet criteria like time served and all that kind of shit. Under those rules, prisoners would have to be released after serving two thirds of their sentence, though that's not the case for life sentences, but it didn't go into effect till 2000.

So right now he's out and apparently living in, uh, Hatley, Wisconsin. And, um, if you want, there's a good picture of him at outlet.historicimages.com. There's a picture of him, a 1983 picture of him in court. He'll never believe he's 39. Jimmy, roll your chair over quick. We'll have a second. But look at this guy. Get the fuck out of here.

39 years old. No. No. He looks fucking 58, right? He looks like a retired detective. Yeah. That's what I mean. That's what I thought it was.

No, that's our guy. It's crazy. So you can buy that on there for $9. It's a recreation. That, everybody, is Akanamawak, Wisconsin, and some crazy head-in-the-stove, body-in-the-cornfield type shit. If you like that show, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're listening on.

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Thank you so much, everybody. Let's go. Pull it into the station. Let's do this. Thank you so much. And until next time, thank you. It's been our pleasure. What? Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

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