Small Town Murder - #351 - The Murder Dance - Section, Alabama

Episode Date: January 12, 2023

This week, in Section, Alabama, way up in the hills, a mountain man feels tragedy after his wife is brutally killed, being found buried on a hillside, leaving him with a young son. Luckily for him, he's able to pick up the pieces, and even remarry, not long after. But then that wife disappears, too. The suspicions from his first wife's death resurface, as his 2nd wife is never found. The problem was that this backwoods locale even scares investigators, who were hesitant to poke around in such a rural area, where there are always eyes on you!!Along the way, we find out that some beards have nothing to do with fashion, that things are done a little differently up in these hills, and that when you kill one wife, shame on you, but kill two wives... shame on us!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Section, Alabama, a rugged mountain man finds love after the death of his first wife, but when she also disappears, things start to get a little bit weird. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello! And welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us. As you can hear, we were having a little bit of fun before we started rolling today. Having some good times here.

But we have a crazy episode for you. Absolutely insane. Can't wait to tell you all about it. First off, though, definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Why? Live show tickets. Get them now because they are going extremely fast. I was shocked to see that there's really not a lot left.

All the tickets through May are on sale right now. Even Pittsburgh is almost sold out. That's going fast. Pittsburgh. St. Louis is like it's going to be sold out probably this week. It's on the edge. It's in Cleveland. Holy, Cleveland's coming through.

Thank you, Cleveland. We apologize for any disparaging remarks we've ever made. You're doing great. Thank you so much. Get in there. Get those tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus material.

That's right. And by the way, crime and sports lives on. So you should listen to crime and sports. Trust us. We toned it. We pared it back a little bit in time and made it stronger and meaner and leaner. So check out Crime and Sports. But Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get bonus stuff for both Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder.

Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get access to all of it. That's right. You're going to get the whole back catalog of bonus stuff. And every other week you're going to get two new episodes, one crime and sports, one small town murder. This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about when players attack fans. So when players have had enough and someone in the athletic prime of their life who's in the middle of a physical contest decides that a fight is the best option to with a 50 year old man who's got a hot dog in his hand as you can tell that never goes well and it's a lot of fun so we'll talk all about that then for small town murder it's nazis on drugs that's right we're going to talk all about the actual nazis from the 40s and 30s and uh what

the hell was going on there what kind of drugs was the leadership on? We all know they gave the soldiers lots of meth, but what was Hitler taking? What was going on? We'll talk all about it because we have detailed stuff there. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and a shout-out at the end of the show as well. Jimmy will certainly mispronounce your name,

even though we'd love to get it correct. It's going to get bad here. That said, let's do the disclaimer. It's a comedy show, everybody. We're comedians. This is a comedy show. We don't make anything up to make it funny. The stories are as real as it gets, unfortunately.

But they happen, and we're going to talk about them, and we're going to make jokes about them. That's the other thing. But what we don't do, we go out of our way not to do. You can hear that and go, that sounds terrible. This is a horrible story. Why are you making jokes? Well, there's reasons to.

That's why. There's a lot of crazy stuff that goes on around a murder. But what we don't do is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. And that's how that goes.

So if that sounds good to you, climb on board. We've got a crazy episode. If not, you think true crime and comedy should never go together? I don't know. Go away, I guess. I don't know what to tell you. Take a hike or listen, but don't complain later. I don't know what to say.

For everybody else, though, I think it's time to sit back. Where are you? Even if you're stuck in traffic, get out, climb onto the hood of your car, and scream back at the line of cars behind you. Look right in their dead, cold eyes and say, Shut up and give me murder. Watch people lock their doors and roll their windows up. It'll be a lot of fun. roll their windows up. Click, click.

It'll be a lot of fun. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? I would love to. We're going on down south this week. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, we've been bouncing all around. We were in New York.

We're over here. We're over there. Now we are in Alabama. Heading on down to Alabama. And this is a different kind of Alabama, too, than we normally talk about here. This is Section Alabama is the name of it. Okay. Just like a section of Alabama, this section.

Is it just missing the number eight? Actually, I think it's 16. We'll talk about it. That's the original number. Double Section eight. This is in the northeastern part of alabama this is in the hills in the mountains this we think of alabama more of a swampy place but in the northeastern corner of the state is the southern tip of the appalachian mountains and these people

this is some uh really georgia pines that's true this is some out there hill country these are the where you know don't get lost in them hills type of thing where literally the people from there don't go up there. Like, oh, don't go up that hill. Like, you'll never come back. It's a scary place. We'll discuss. It's about an hour 45 to Birmingham, Alabama. If you want to go to, I guess, the capital there.

Three hours to Montgomery, Alabama. There is Montgomery, the capital. I don't remember Alabama. I think it's Montgomery, actually. Oh is Montgomery, the Capitol. I don't remember Alabama. I think it's Montgomery actually. Oh, Montgomery. I think, I think it is Montgomery. Yeah. It's Montgomery, I believe.

And then, uh, four hours and 42 minutes to Daleville, which is our last Alabama episode, which was where my murder necklace, which was a disgustingly weird, crazy episode. Alabama never disappoints in terms of weird. Was that with the dad and the daughter that one yeah that shit was oh man listen to that episode if you want to hear a weird one uh this is in jackson county area code 256 history here a little bit of history this community was originally known as mount zion when the first post office was established. It was Mount Zion, Alabama. There was a bunch of little communities like Kirby's Creek and Gossett's Hollow

and Fern Cliff, which all sound like places to battle the devil in a banjo competition. It doesn't sound good at all. No, those don't sound... All of those sound like after the Lord of the Rings and then that. I feel like you can't get a pizza delivered to your house in All of those sound like after the Lord of the Rings and then that. I feel like you can't get a pizza delivered to your house in any of those places.

Gulch and hollow. Hollows and creeks and cliffs. That's where I draw what civilization is and isn't. Can I have a pizza delivered to my house? Okay, then we're fine. We are in business. That's fine. If it's pizza, then I can't live here.

I'm sorry. That's where it's too rural for me. I need to be able to get pizza on a whim now. Yeah, I guess that's really it because the next level up is like Chinese and groceries, right? Yeah, you need groceries and that sort of thing. But you figure, oh, well, I'll make a trip. I'll go once a week. But if it's 830 and I'm hungry and I haven't eaten and i'm and i want a pizza i need that thing delivered

to me i'm way too stoned to go pick it up so it's not happening it feels like amazon prime even takes a week that's what i mean that that frightens me when when it's like well i mean prime is about eight nine days up here business days that is so it's a while it's a while but uh you know and they consider that used to be better than it used to be so uh people came started coming here in 1862 in large numbers which is the beginning of the civil war when the well not to be the middle of the civil war so i don't know if that was people coming away or fleeing. This seems like fleeing the maybe fleeing the battles. You know what I mean? Because this is there's not going to be any any fucking battles up in these hills.

I'll tell you that much right now. Like it's no one's bringing their armies here. So, you know, and fighting here. So settlers were required to live on the land for five years before the property was considered legally owned by them. So yeah, you had to live on it there. Basically, you had to squat? Yeah, you had to live there before it was yours. That's how it was. They split it up with you squat on your land for five years and then it's yours. It later became known as section because it was the location of a square mile parcel of

land known as the 16th section. Oh my God. So that's why it was here. It's literally just a parceled out big square block and required by the federal government to be set aside in support of public schools. So it was just a, it was like a

broken up for in terms of funding for education. And they just were like, section 16, that has a nice ring to it. Don't it? Right? Don't you agree? No, nevermind Gossett's Hollow.

Section sounds wonderful. We'll just cut off the 16. It makes it very cold and like you're just a number and you don't matter when it's that it's a post-apocalyptic thing that's what it is like oh you went into section 16 oh my god i heard that's all zombies and like you know irradiated weirdo people that eat your brains there section 16 you could be if there was a horror movie called section 16 you'd be like oh shit what's up with that yeah you're like wow that sounds sounds terrifying horrifying yeah is it there's like a you know like the military's involved in some way there's a there's a disease or an apocalypse or a nuclear yeah there's a plague or something to be there because of the way they are yeah

section 16 has been all bad things have been pushed pushed into it. And one group of plucky teenagers needs to fight their way out. They have to brave it. Yeah. So in 1886, Bort Harrison, a guy named Bort, ran a six-horsepower water-powered flour and grist mill and also built the first store in the community which was in 1889 so people were there for almost 30 years before they said hey we should have stores and stuff it took almost 30 years for someone to decide that commerce was something that maybe someone would want to take part in took six years to build a 30 horsepower motor to holy shit around here that's wild uh reviews of this town not too much here in terms of reviews uh the uh the here's one this is from the county it's not even for the

town uh jackson county is a great place to live and raise a family okay uh it's made up of several small towns this is five stars by the way perfect and filled with beautiful parks and countryside it is also home to the famous unclaimed baggage what okay unclaimed baggage we'll talk about this and things to do because it's one of them is a quote huge venue selling unclaimed airline luggage, including clothes, jewelry, bags, and electronics. It's in Scottsboro, Alabama. So it's pilfered shit. It's a massive tribute to the ineptitude of an airline to get somebody their goddamn luggage back.

And now you're going to buy this person's sorrow. We are selling the lost and found. Yeah. Want to buy it not really so uh people in this area and section is made up of several small little tiny areas by by the way little tiny ones and it's all in all of them in the whole town of section only 743 people so it is yeah about average in terms of male female median age is 39.6 which is like two years higher than the national average uh there is literally zero percent people 85 and over so you know you can't you don't live that long ain't living up here out there in the hills that ain't happening no something will something will happen. A hunting accident. You know, you fall down a gulch.

There's got to be. Life expectancy is 72. You eat lard with every meal. Things of that nature, you know. That'll catch up to you after a while. After a while. The secret to their long age, their long life of 71 is lots and lots of bacon. Yep, lardo and bacon so but five to nine year olds

kids are almost double the national average in that so their people are fucking like crazy here uh which is interesting 53 of the people here are married which is a little above the national average 20 are single with children so party time in in all section here race of this town 97.8 percent white 0.7 percent black i feel bad for those that's that sounds like i don't know listen this is just going off historical things outside or looking in and i'm a northerner and all that, so I don't know. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem like a rural mountain town full of, and I'm only saying this because I know the story, full of actual hillbillies, like serious hillbillies,

probably wouldn't be the most welcoming to the 0.7% of the black people that are here. I'm just saying. They're probably not a tough light for a lot of those. Not a lot of beeping and waving. They're using their hands and beeping but for other things there's not a lot of waving going on or anything like that probably it's probably a safe assumption it's just saying 1.3 percent hispanic uh religion in this town 54 are religious religious and a whopping 36 percent of the people are Baptist. So that's no shock, because as we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. That's everywhere. Zero point zero percent Jewish, which is not surprising for the for a rural northeastern Alabama mountain town.

In the last election, Jackson County, it's a pretty rural county as we know here, 15.7% of the people voted Democratic, 83.2% Republican, 1.1% Independent. So there's a consensus in this area. So it's the county. I wonder who they're named after. Yeah, I wonder. That's a surprise probably. I would assume it's our old guy there. So there's low unemployment here, but the median household income is $31,458, which is a lot less than the national average. I'm shocked it's that high. I know. I was too, actually, because where it is, it's pretty rural.

How do you make $40,000 a year up there? I don't know. And the cost of living, $100,000 is average here. It's pretty low. It's $40,000 a year up there? I don't know. And the cost of living, $100,000 is average here. It's pretty low. It's $77,000. But the home cost is the lowest of all the costs of living. Median home cost here, $119,200. Yeah, it's not bad.

Pretty low. Yeah, it's pretty low. I don't know where there is to work, but we'll find out. And we've convinced you that, you know what? You're tired of getting pizza delivered to you, we have for you the Section Alabama Real Estate Report. The average two-bedroom rental here goes for $705 a month, which is way lower than the national average. First house, you can't really find a lot of cheap houses. There's a lot of cheap lots of land that you can get for nothing.

But house-wise, there's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,704-square-foot house. Good-sized house on 3.4 acres, so a decent amount of land. This is clearly grandma died, So, decent amount of land. This is clearly, grandma died, finally, after a long life. She didn't, she, 84 because we know she doesn't make it to 85. She died at 84, and the family has finally got to sell her

house and split the proceeds. They've been drooling over it for years. People have been, like, measuring their decks to get it redone. Once grandma dies and we sell her house, we're going to do all this now. That's what it looks like. It hasn't been touched in 40 years. $209,000 for that, though.

That's a big house on a lot of land. Sure is. Good bones just needs to be re, you know, some cosmetic shit. Here's one. It says it's 5,640 square feet feet but it's all a bunch of cabins it says 10 units they're 10 one bedroom cabins 10 500 square feet places?

yeah and then there's a bunch of trailers in the picture too but I don't know if the trailers are considered cabins are they included in the square footage? or if they're the neighbors right there if you have like a trailer park next to you. I'm not sure what's going on with these, Halt.

It says it's an investment opportunity. So I assume there's 20 parking spaces. There's that. $225,000 for that. That seems like a liability you're buying for that much money. But $225,000. I don't know. It seems like low cost to risk, though.

You know what I mean? Yeah, there's a lot. But I don't know. I guess you could rent those. I don't know. It seems like low cost to risk, though. You know what I mean? Yeah, there's a lot, but I don't know. I guess you could rent those. I don't know. Here's a four-bedroom, three-bath, 1920-square-foot house. It's very nice. It's on 1.74 acres. Oh, yeah. It's a real, it looks like there was a show on HGTV called Let's Build That Cabin. And they made it, and it's like, yeah, I just still want the kitchen to be chic, though, even though it's a cabin. Like, it's one of those places.

It was built in 2016. I want all the ease of cooking. Yes. Not in the woods. You can't get pizza delivered here, so I gotta cook. So it's one of those type of things. It looks like it's made on HGTV. It is $574,900. Oh my god. Out of your fucking mind. It's not even $2,000. There's made on HGTV. It is $574,900.

Oh, my God. Out of your fucking mind. There's no way you're getting that back out. Hell no. Yeah, somebody spent too much money building this. That's what happened. Overbuilt the neighborhood. Built way too much for the neighborhood.

Things to do here, as you can imagine, teeming with things to do. In nearby Scottsboroboro unclaimed baggage baby we'll talk about it i know everyone was curious about that that piqued my interest so figure the nation's only retailer of lost luggage that's not surprising i don't think you're telling me you don't expect there to be a demand for this shit, James? This is wild. We're the only ones who sell it. Crazy, right? You never know what you'll find.

Airline passengers waiting for their bags upon arrival are almost certain to see them riding atop the bag carousel. That's because airlines use sophisticated tracking technology to reunite over 99.5% of bags with their owners right away. If a bag is truly lost, airlines pay out a claim to the passenger. It's only after an extensive three-month search that an unclaimed bag is deemed truly orphaned, a fate realized by less than 0.03% of bags. That's where we come in. Yeah.

It literally says. Resale dildos. We find the garbage that's really just come in. Yeah. It literally says. Resale dildos. We find the garbage that's really just in the corners, what the wind blows into the corners. You know, that kind of garbage. That's what we find. We scoop it up, wipe it off, and sell it to you. You're telling me that 0.3% of bags lose their fucking tag?

You know what I mean? That tag is so taped to your bag. I know. There's no way they can't fucking find that bag and get it back to you. It's fucking gone. They say unclaimed baggage has purchasing agreements for unclaimed items with all domestic airlines and other travel and transportation companies. You could get train luggage.

It's exciting, Jimmy. Who knows? This shit may come off an Amtrak. Yeah, you might want to get one of those old timey trunks. Who knows? Maybe someone from the 40s will be traveling. We don't know. With five decades of experience processing large volumes of one of a kind items, we maximize each item's potential for a second life.

So it's a thrift store from people's lost luggage. That's what it is. So is it just luggage or is it the shit inside, too? Oh, it's the shit inside. That's what it is. Everything, right? It's jewelry thrift store for people's lost luggage. That's what it is. Is it just luggage or is it the shit inside too? Oh, it's the shit inside. That's what it is. It's everything, right? It's jewelry, clothes. It's whatever the fuck they find in there.

It's dildos. Oh, it's a lot of dildos. This one's got a couple of chips in it. It looks like maybe a dog chewed on it a little bit, but it's still pretty good. This one's microwavable. It's not bad. Also, the annual Catfish Festival, which sounds like it's a festival to fool people into thinking they have a boyfriend or girlfriend. But it's not, actually.

This is Grand Marshal Manti Teo. There we go. He's like, let me tell you about being catfished. Wow. So it says Car, Truck, Motorcycle, Antique Tractor Show. That's the Catfish Festival. Car, Truck, Motorcycle, Antique Tractor Show is the Catfish Festival. That is catfishing me.

I thought this would be about fishing. That's a strange thing. Yeah, maybe that's what it is. But there's fishing, though. Free fishing. Free fishing for kids one to seven years old. If you charge a one-year-old to fish yeah that'd be a little you're an asshole how long if you take a one-year-old to fish at how let's say

you're there an hour how much out of that hour is that one-year-old holding the pole three seconds when you go here hold it and they go and throw it down and go run over there one-year-old a one-year-old can't hold a pole no they can't they absolutely can't one to seven way a one-year-old is fishing and probably shouldn't be messing with hooks either at one i would say put that worm on there son what are you pussy come on boy get it on there jesus christ you don't eat you don't catch nothing catch no you don't eat then the 8 to 12-year-olds come after that, and they fish as well. Limit of three fish per child, though. Can't catch any more than that.

Is it all catfish? I don't know. Catfish is disgusting. It can be good. It's good in a nice— Like niblets? Yeah, like the little chunks and the cornmeal on them. The southern preparation, it's pretty good. Or midwestern i think that is actually with the

cornmeal i'm not sure southern people don't yell at me fucking i hate it all anyway i love i love any fish so i love it it's good catfish is the only one i refuse to eat because i've seen them oh they're dirty yeah they're dirty they're filthy cut it into nuggets eat it up jimmy jesus christ i can't do it. You've eaten worse than that. I've watched you. I've watched you eat chicken from a gas station. That was clearly not even good anymore.

So you can't be judging anybody's food choices. On sight, it was obvious it was inedible. I went, I wouldn't eat that. You're like, ooh, chicken. And you went and bought it. So there's a free kids area here with mechanical bull riding inflatable toys and face painting one year olds give you a fishing pole come on here sunny eight-year-old hop up on this mechanical bull i'm sure no one will get hurt there

holy shit because there's a there's a man behind a table with like joysticks controlling that thing yeah like let's fuck with this smile on his face as he tries to sling you off. You or your child, your small child. There's also a pet parade and costume contest. So there's that. There's also, yeah, that's what there is there. And also the Shriner's Catfish Plates. Okay.

I don't know what goes on there. I don't like that. Shriners give you catfish. And also there's a rock zoo. So go to the rock zoo. The rock zoo. You want to know what the rock zoo is? Please tell me.

It's fucking rocks painted like animals. They'll have a big rock and they paint it like a cow. And you go, there's a rock painted like a cow. And another rock is painted like a little raccoon or something. So it's a- What, Ma? A lizard. That's-

No, it's a rock. It looks like children painted animals on rocks. Yeah. That's what it looks like. It's not good. That's not an attraction. I'm sorry. Get it together.

Does not a zoo make? No. No pizza, terrible zoo. I'm out. I'm gone. Crime rate in this town. A terrible zoo. I'm out. I'm gone. Crime rate in this town. Rock zoo. So I'm like, let that sink in for a minute.

Rock zoo. That's how bored it is here. We just paint the rocks. You like charge people to get in. Oh, yeah. No, it ain't free. It ain't free. Paint ain't free.

You know, it's and it says it's definitely like nothing you've ever seen yeah there's no one we sell old luggage and paint rocks like animals this place is it's unique is what it is there's a little there's a little roll machine you can get some rock food and you can do a pet and zoo and feed the rocks oh it's wonderful you just do that you got to use your imagination a little don't get me wrong but i I think you're going to like it. A little quarter in there for some bird seed. Yeah, why not? Crime rate in this town. Property crime is low.

Crime rate's low. There's nobody here. And everything is like your house is set back in a tree line with a gate in front of it that says, I'll shoot you in the face if you come on my property. So yeah, there's not a lot of crime. People come out heavily armed to go to the, you know,

store a little while away and then back and they look at each other suspiciously. It's not who's going to do anything. It's like a big, a big standoff, the whole town. It's about property crimes, about one third of the national average here.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about a quarter of the national average. So very, very, very low. That said, let's talk about some murder. Shall we?

It was not safe at all here. Now this is going to take place in Sand Mountain. S-A-N? S-A-N-D, Sand Mountain. Sand Mountain, and this is from a newspaper article, a local newspaper article, like an Alabama paper. This isn't the New York Times or anything. It says, quote, this is to describe it, where yard signs warn trespassers to stay out and drooping wire on roadsides keep goats and

cows in it's part of a region steeped in grisly violence and snake handling churches a fiercely provincial pocket of appalachia that can intimidate even hardened investigators they have snakes in the church you don't know about snake handling you never never heard of that? No. Yeah, there's a lot of denominations down there. There's Pentecostals that do it. Snake handling is to show the faith that the snake won't bite me because God's not going to have him bite me. But all of these guys eventually die of snake bites. That's the fucking hilarious part. Every five years or so, some crazy pastor who is saying shit that me and you absolutely don't agree with at all

publicly for a long time they'll say they died of a snake bite today and you go good you fucking idiot you're holding the snake out looking it in the face a fully poisonous snake going the lord will keep you from biting me shut the fuck up it's a snake you stupid idiot that guy has has electrified wire fence for his goats and sheeps yeah that guy this is but this is this is a place where people in alabama go oh don't go up there in them hills and people are fucking hillbillies up there like this is where this is like in west virginia where the whites come from the hills asking you also got mozzarella cheese sticks at taco bell and people are like oh jesus it's the whites guys kissing a snake yeah i

can't believe you've never seen that no oh it's a big thing every time one of them dies they make a big deal out of it because duh because duh you know what i mean obviously yeah it's like when grizzly man died in the documentary oh well yeah obviously yeah you idiot that's i mean the odds of that are you fuck with grizzly bears for a long time at some point one of them's just gonna go nah and then you're dead just with their big paw and claw yeah i don't like you anymore it's me and 300 grizzly bears and that's it here there one of them's gonna go you know that is there's food right there why are we Why are we getting after all this fish? There's one right there.

It's so cold in the water when we catch those salmon. You know what I mean? And then I'm wet all day. We got to wait for them. My fur takes forever to dry. Look at it. It's so thick. It's like a 70s shag over here.

So let's just eat him for now. Okay. It's easier, right? That's the same thing with snakes. If four or five nights a week you take out fucking snakes and hold them up and scream, Oh, Lord Jesus. While you have a fucking... Shaking it.

Shaking it and it's two inches from your face. Eventually, it's going to bite you and kill you and I'm going to laugh at you for that. Because that's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. If you hold it in a way that it can't strike and then get it close enough to fucking skin your fault it's gonna fight back you're bad and that goes with anybody that does stupid shit like that there's a group of motorcycle people that drive by my house back and forth up on this road and it's a bunch of like young dudes on motorcycles they have like you know fucking crotch rockets and like there's a couple guys on like souped up dirt bikes and shit like that.

And they ride by half of them are riding like a crazy wheelie. Oh, my God. Like half of them are doing as they go down the street. And I stand outside and I go, fall, fall, fall. I fall. And then have all your friends run you over, you dumb motherfucker. Because you know what? No, because then you're going to fuck up traffic.

Everyone's going to be late going home or late going to fucking work because you had to be an asshole and show off for who? Go in the woods and do that. Don't do it on the road where you're going to waste other people's goddamn time. The thing about a wheelie is that you can't steer that. No, it's insane. You take the steer wheel off the ground. And there's like, it's like a hill and a curve. It's like, what are you people doing?

What's wrong with you? And there's sand on the road because it's, you know, like salt from. It's winter for Christ's sake. They just went by over the weekend. And I was like, what are you doing? That's insane. Oh, we just, we cross our fingers and wait for sirens every time they go by. Sarah too. Sarah, too.

Both of us. We're like, fuck those people. We've had it. We root for. And we're not people. I'm a nice person. I help people. I don't root for people.

Come on, set in the fucking neighborhood, man. Stop doing that, you arrogant little assholes. I'm tired of it. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing this mother lied like a liar like a liar and if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks

the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. There's no reason for it on the road. So anyway, that's where we are. So let's introduce us to a man here. Okay. This is a mountain man. This is a man that the whites in West Virginia would call would say that fucking hillbilly. Like this is a guy that they would. Is he a snake fuck arounder?

He doesn't personally handle snakes, but his father is. I don't know if his father's a snake handler, but he's a he's this area, so I assume he at least has a couple snakes just in case he needs to whip them out. You know what I mean? You never know. When things get crazy, you've got to whip that snake out and get people in line. So we're going to talk about Barry Van Witten. Van is his middle name. It's not Van Witten.

Really? It's Barry Van Witten. And I use the H. It's W-H-I-T-T-O-N Van Witten. Really? It's Barry Van Witten. And I use the H. Witten. It's W-H-I-T-T-O-N. Witten. So didn't we have a van last week? A guy named Van, his first name?

I mean, that was the name of the guy that helped, what's his ass, kill his girlfriend's baby? Yeah, that's weird. Kill his girlfriend, not the baby. Two guys named Van. That's strange. That's a fascinating name, too. So Barry Witten, he's born in 1969. Old Barry here.

Local residents, and this is people from the hills up here, describe him as a quiet man who always wears dark overalls, a dark hat, and has a long beard, and, quote, keeps to himself mostly. That's a scary man. Picture in it, guys. Everybody. He is frightening.

Yes. His pictures of him, he has the checkered shirt with overalls. He's got like a suede. Not a suede. No, like a hat. Oh, a nice Stetson. No, no, no no no no it's a hat like he's uh like like he like he's hanging out with robin hood like a hat like that kind it's a hard to

describe hat almost like a pork pie-ish hat but not really because it's like floppy and suede-ish looking what i don't know what it is it looks like he's from the hills of bavaria or something with his hat it's a very weird hat it looks like a bicycle seat it's no it's hard to explain the picture will be up on social media you can see his weird hat it's a weird hat it's not a hat that you would normally think like if i'm gonna wear a hat it's not in your realm of choices i'll what about that hat it's not is it like a like the like the newsboy one that clips no no no it's not like a kangol it's like a it's like a i guess it's like a fedora type hat but like a floppy it looks like suede corduroy almost like it's i don't know what he's wearing but it's like flopped in so he almost

looks like he should be wearing lederhosen with it it looks like almost like a bavarian hills hat awesome i don't know what is going on with his head but fascinating choice of a hat this is why you got to come to live shows you can see the hat right away we can make fun of it rather than try to decipher what the hell it is so he uh wears a big giant beard though too and not an austin texas beard like you it's a fucking he's a hillbilly beard it's just a wiry ugly one it's a no it's a big thick beard but i mean it's for a reason because he's like a oh yeah yeah it's not to be a it's they're not like he's not mountain man cosplaying like you are he's just he's actually you have like some sort of weird redneck cosplay thing going on while you live in a city of five million people.

I don't know how it happened. You do. You let it grow. You let it grow and you like that people comment on it because it's a conversation piece. No, it's stopped. I haven't had an ingrown hair in a year. That's wonderful. I think you just like to talk to people and it's a good way to start conversations.

That's what I mean. It's really out of control now. That's your version of going out with like a big lizard. That's my eye, y'all. No, you know like some people, they'll go out like a big lizard or like a snake or a parrot or something. That's your version of it. It's like, look at my beard. This is my exotic pet.

Yes, that's what it is. It's like, look at my beard. This is my exotic pet. Yes. That's what it is. It's my island pet. But this guy just does it because he's like, I don't buy no razors. All the mirrors in my house done broke. He just doesn't care. I got beyond the ingrown part, and it's so great. That's great. Yeah.

That's terrific. Ingrown hairs are the worst. I just look like an asshole. Not an asshole. It's bad. Not an asshole. It does not look good. Just everybody else.

That would drive me nuts. That would drive me crazy because it's like having a, it's a weird feature that it's like, oh, a beard. It's the whole thing where everybody sees a bald guy

with glasses and a beard and they're like, it's Jimmy Wissman and it's like, God damn it. It's a weird feature that it's like, oh, a beard. It's the whole thing where everybody sees a bald guy with glasses and a beard, and they're like, it's Jimmy Wissman. And it's like, god damn it. It's almost like if people wear a Shriner's hat when they shot Paul Castellano to make everybody look similar and you can't really tell them apart. Yeah. Ten bald guys with beards. We're all the same guy. Yeah. People just go, I don't know.

I saw shiny here and hairy here. I don't know. I'd probably get and hairy here. I don't know. I'd probably get away with a murder before you would. That's what I mean. You're blending right in. It's good for you. This is good. It makes you really under the radar.

I like it. It's a bad group to blend in with. But that was an advantage that I was giving you there anyway. That's one of the advantages. It's not good though no i just i look like an asshole i hate it i wish i wish it would just like stop growing at some point and it will not it was fine till that punk of ricotta cheese was hanging out of it uh at my house when he ate that lasagna pizza and it was i was like jimmy that is that is not okay, man. It was like a tablespoon of ricotta cheese was off to the side of his mouth.

I was like, oh, my God. That is terrifying. You don't want to see me eat wings, James. Oh, God. Scary. It's not good. Oh, my God. So this is what he does.

Keeps to himself and looks like a mountain person. So a woman named Brenda Hargis. Oh, my God. So this is what he does. Keeps to himself and looks like a mountain person. So a woman named Brenda Hargis, she's a clerk at the old grocery store that's several miles down the road, obviously. Yeah. And she said of Witten, quote, he had a sawmill on his property, and I think he would rather live off the land. Oh, boy. So that's what he's doing. He's like homesteading all the time here. So that's what he's doing.

He's he's like homesteading all the time here. He's the son of a fire and brimstone preacher. But I'm not sure if there is any snakes involved or not. Probably. I'm just going to assume together. Real hard to the possibility. Right. Yeah. Your picture in him, your picture in the hat.

Throw a snake in there. Why not? You know, what's the matter? Who cares? Why not? Yeah. Who's it hurting right now? Come on. He he'll end up having for a 40 acre homestead on the mountain. That's about a mile down the road from his daddy, who is the fire and brimstone preacher there. So it's they describe it as a rugged plateau. This area. It's the hills. And they the neighbors are this is from the newspaper are reluctant to talk about barry whitton for fear of reprisal or like we don't know him they're

scared of him everybody's scared of everybody up here all these people are dangerous people not all of them but a lot of people are kind of dangerous they say his house too his his homestead is obscured by a shitload of like bushes and trees and it's behind a winding driveway that's all sandy so i guess that's why it's sand mountain because there's sand up there and in there so it's you know it's it's it's back there it's in the woods there so he does operate a small saw mill on his property later on here um a retired teacher in town who's a longtime acquaintance of his family said, quote, he acts like someone without a heart. So he is just a nice way of saying he's fucking horrifying looking and behind the scenes. All of the above.

Yeah, I think this is like he's like a movie hillbilly like a like a movie like like like a deliverance hillbilly like a villain a villainous hillbilly like you know life is in peril around yeah you go down to like settle your dead grandma's estate and you get down there and like the clan starts running you off the road and stuff like that's the kind of guy he is it seems like he'd be right in the middle of that or something or like standing in front of a school telling kids not to come in so um another woman here said quote a lot of people are afraid of him okay yeah um in 1988 and in 1991 he is uh convicted of felonies in both times here. He is receiving stolen property both times. Oh, both times.

Both times. Now, if you – rural areas, and I know this because if you go outside of where I live and go up north and stuff, there's a lot of rural areas. And there's a lot of places where you can have things disappear. People with land, that's their second business is disappearing things for people yeah there's people who have giant farms that have cars buried in it from the last 40 years because it's a known thing that you go somewhere and you give somebody 500 bucks and they'll bury your car for you and you know claim the insurance so that's the type of thing i believe he was doing he was doing shit like that

disappearing things for people and then making a living without a job he's trying to homestead and live off the land and on top of that so you're trying to you know supplement your income so later in 1991 when he gets out of jail for receiving stolen property he gets married later that year yeah you know because he seems like a that's an eligible bachelor right there listen i mean he's enterprising i guess so he gets married to a woman named michelle townsend whitton well that's her name now michelle townsend is her name and then she becomes michelle townsend whitton she's born in the same year as as him um they started dating about a year ago in 1990 but they've known each other

since they were little little kids they rode the same school bus so yeah they've known each other forever and this is the type of area where you basically marry the people you've known your whole life or else you don't know who the fuck else is around you're on a hilltop with 700 people there's not a lot of options here. You better get to picking. Yeah. It's like living on an island. Yeah. And especially, you know, they get together in the 90s.

This is pre-internet. So, you know, it's not like he's got an app where he can be like, oh, she lives 30 miles away, but shit, she worth it. You know, none of that even. You can, it's just you have to meet somebody. So January 20th, 1996, about five years later, they have a son together as well. Yeah. Look at that. January 20th. Remember the date, by the way, 1996. They have a son named Ethan there and they end up living in the community of Dutton, which is near here. This is before he has his his his his acreage and his homestead and all that.

Michelle, it's hard to get a lot. Michelle seems like she's a homemaker. It just doesn't work outside the house, it doesn't seem like. And she, it's hard to get a lot on her other than she's married to Barry and raises Ethan. She's just kind of like a, you know, doesn't really have a lot of, people say she's very bubbly and has a very upbeat personality. She's not down at all. Her friend said that her favorite song in the world in the mid nineties here is Mariah Carey's vision of love.

It's her favorite. She, I don't even know which one that is. Vision of love. Which one is that? That's a real deep cut of Mariah Carey. That's not really even a, is that a hit?

That's not a very popular one, is it? I have no, I, I am not up on my, I don't have all of the Mariah Carey catalog in front really even a is that a hit a very popular one is it i have no i i'm not up on my i don't have all of the mariah carey catalog in front of me i don't have it and in like 95 96 i was a teenager i would have been ignoring mariah carey's music hardcore like really hard except for the one song with old dirty bastard in it and i would have been like well all dirty's parts okay i suppose vision of love is i believe that one's not i think that's like a b-side that's not a popular one i have no

idea i'm sure we'll be told but i don't know um it's now well it's michelle's favorite one so she's doug she loves she had a cassette single of it so they made a single of it made a single so it had to be as it had to be a hit huge. Yeah. Or at least one of her singles. Her friend said she would play it over and over and over again, and she sang along. So there you go. There's only one song on the goddamn tape. Here's my tape. It has a B-side.

She didn't like that song, apparently. Over and over. Rewind. Rewind. She said it was actually the last thing we laughed about together the last time i saw her was a few weeks before she disappeared at a funeral that we rode to together what by the way so many funerals going on in a town of 700 people it's there's everybody's stories about everything there's a funeral involved i was either on my way home from

a funeral or on my way to a funeral all the time. Funeral parlor is a revolving door. That's the business in this town is that because no one lives to 85. So I would certainly be questioning whoever runs the funeral parlor. Right. Just goes over poisons old people who benefits from their death. That guy every time every now these old people's water supplies not doing good. The wells are poisoned. I don't know what it is. Must be a phenomenon.

So Michelle disappears in 1997, December of 1997, a couple weeks before Christmas. She just disappears. Gone. Poof. She's a one-year-old. She has a five-year-old at this point. Six-year-old. 97? 97, a six-year-old. Or five-year-year-old at this point six-year-old 97 a six-year-old or five-year-old he was born in 92 oh okay all right got a five-year-old named ethan okay yeah the five

ethan is at home so i mean she's gone ethan's not gone um barry says that she went went to hardy's to go get breakfast you know fast food joint it's tough breakfast. That's why no one lives to 85 if you're going to Hardee's to get breakfast. It's a tough breakfast. That's a tough breakfast. Jesus Christ. There's some biscuits involved in that. That's a heavy one. Gravy on everything.

That's a breakfast that you go take another nap after you wake up. You eat that breakfast, and then you just have to go lay in bed under the covers for a little while. Back in bed until 10. And then you're, whew, okay, wow, that was. That was a lot. That was a lot, man. It's a snuggly breakfast, let's call it.

It's a good snuggly breakfast. I'll give you them old crazy dreams. Yeah, I'll give you the crazies. So he claimed, yeah, she went out to buy breakfast at Hardee's, was supposed to come back, and he's like, I still ain't got my hash browns. This is ridiculous. Still waiting. If you find her, bring back my hash browns, will you? Just grab them from her and bring them to me because I'm hungry.

Tell you what. She was in her car, which is a 1990 Toyota Camry. She was dressed in a pink sweatshirt and pink pants and sandals is what she's wearing. He said she never came back. Don't know what it is. December 7th, 1997. Went to Scottsboro to get some breakfast from the Hardys there and just never came home. Don't know.

That was the day she was heading to a funeral that day? No, no, no. Her and her friend, the last time they sang Vision of Love together was on the way to a funeral a couple weeks before this and we laughed and we laughed that we were laughing about the song on the way to the funeral which you know what we're laughing in a murder story so sometimes this is what yeah she's a dark humor because i every funeral i've ever been to what are you gonna sit there sullen you gotta laugh you gotta make horrible got to make fun of the corpse. That's what you do. You roast the corpse, right?

I thought that's what funerals are. Is that just Italian people? That's what you're supposed to do, right? Yeah. Italians, we roast the corpse unless it's your grandma, unless it's like the matriarch, and then you're not allowed to say anything bad at all or people will murder you. That's how it works. Or you'll be next.

You'll be stabbed in the face by the people after they get out of the casket from jumping in it to go. No, which happens also. So the police come. The police are called and they find a note that Witten here that Barry had left for Michelle that day saying, quote, Hi, sweetheart. We got worried you broke down. So we went out looking for you. Love, Barry and Ethan. P.S. We left at 1103. Weird. That is very specific.

We left at 11. Yeah, it's about 11. Like, no. So hi, sweetheart. First of all, which is very formal for like a just – but that's fine. Sometimes it is niceties. We got worried you broke down, so we went out looking for you. That's if she comes back before they come back, obviously.

Love, Barry and Ethan. Well, I think she knows probably who wrote the goddamn thing. And P.S., we left at 11.03 is just very odd. That's the weirdest. that's really weird here um and they said that the the one of the investigators who was looking for her said that right away the note quote looked a little odd to me yeah he said he didn't like the 1103 thing because he said that seems like it looks like somebody trying to start a timeline. Right. Trying to establish a timeline of where they were when and, you know, in their own writing.

But that can't be established. That's when that was written. So that's like a handwritten time card. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, he says he got here at eight. I don't know. He works by himself. Who knows?

One of those things. So I guess they took a full report. The police at one to 15 in the afternoon. So she left early. Eleven oh three. Supposedly he goes out looking for one 15. The police are at Michelle's parents house and Barry is there as well. And they said that Barry seemed, quote, calm and indifferent.

I mean, she's been missing missing for she should have she should have been gone about an hour so she's really been missing about four hours so you know i mean this is pre cell phones you know what i'm saying so i mean people did things who knows if she decided to go shopping or go over here it's you don't know nothing to get excited about so at that point i'd be like i'd love to find her but i'm not you know like oh my god jesus find my wife please oh jesus you know so they said he didn't really appear upset or anything like that so they took a report and uh took it to the sheriff's office and then started checking on all the roads up on the mountain to see if maybe she crashed in one of these shitty

side roads and he's up on a mountain see if she likes bleeding out right now she has her car stuck in the woods or something she's unconscious bashed her head on the steering wheel so they go looking for her there now later on while on patrol looking for her uh the officer who took the initial report saw barry driving south on county road 19 in a small white pickup truck uh this is before he took the missing persons report though so he saw him driving around before and then at 115 he comes and sees the pickup truck is at this house and so is barry so um this so he's asked this cop said that no one else was in the car with Barry when he saw him driving around. So he didn't take the kid with him, Ethan. He didn't see a car seat in the passenger seat at all.

And he said that he did see – passing him on the road, he could see into the car and get details, which seems to me a little suspicious. But he said that he saw what looked like a blanket or a sleeping bag in the passenger seat. So I guess you'd see a pile of something. So, yeah, that's what he saw. And then later on, when he goes to take the report, he goes, oh, this is the guy I saw on the road. So Sheriff Chuck Phillips inserts himself here, of course. Old Sheriff Chuck here. take the report he goes oh this is the guy i saw on the road so um sheriff chuck phillips inserts himself here of course old sheriff chuck here uh he starts on it right now um he said that he spoke with barry and uh again barry said she she went to get breakfast he said i waited a few hours and

then went looking for her i drove down to scottsboro and to other places, and then I went back home. He said that he then went to Rainsville, which is where Michelle's mother lives. Went there to tell them he can't find Michelle to see if maybe she stopped by there. She didn't. They called the cops, and that was that. So that's how that happened. Turned by all the usual haunts before calling the police. Yeah, where she said she's going to be.

Maybe she just, Hardy's got good to her. Honestly. Hardee's got bad to her. Yeah. It's going to rush somewhere. If she had like some biscuits and gravy or something in there, she could have taken a nap in the car. You could get out to the car and go, I'm just going to curl up for just a minute here. And she could still be sleeping.

That's a possibility. You could pull over and just crawl into that back bench seat oh yeah i mean the camera is not very big in 1990 but it's still comfortable still she can crawl up and oh man when you've had that much biscuit in your belly at fucking 8 a.m i don't think it matters he's gravy forget it forget about it so uh the sheriff said that bar that Barry described what Michelle was wearing at the time she was missing, which is a pink sweatsuit and sandals. So that's all consistent. Now there's some friends of Michelle here.

And, uh, there's a woman named Rebecca white. She said that her, her and her husband, Michelle and Rebecca's husband were related somehow. Alabama cousins. I don't know.

Whatever. So that just means they've hooked up before. Sorry. That just means they fingered each other when I was 15. They're cousins. So they kissed, you know, that goes.

So she said that she was one of Michelle's best friends. She said she saw Michelle the week before she went missing, and she went to her house on the Wednesday prior to her being missing as well. She told the police that it seemed like something was wrong, saying that Michelle was normally the kind of person who was always happy, and she just seemed a little downtrodden that day. A little bit of depression know a little depression uh this woman said i could just tell something was wrong she didn't tell me what was wrong but i could tell so something's wrong you know if you're one of your best friends if there's something up with them that day what's up with you what's going on yeah what's the matter yeah what's your fucking problem yeah yeah just Yeah. Staring off into nowhere. Would you have Hardee's for breakfast?

Come on. So after they come to the house to look around to see if maybe they can find any clues, they come to Barry and Michelle's house. And they ask about the carpet in the master bedroom when they take a quick look around. Yeah. And there's just a big square cut out of the carpet in the bedroom. Well. Which is not normal. It's a bad sign. It's just not.

It's a bad sign. Everybody out there, think about your house. Yeah. Any rooms that are carpeted, are there any just missing squares of carpet that were just cut out with a utility knife in the last few weeks? Got any patches gone? Any just gone? of carpet that were just cut out with a utility knife in the last few weeks just got any patches gone and he just got up if you walk into a room right there you point to it and go where is she yeah who'd you dismember in here that's what you say what's going on so you know we see it right yeah so they also find a bit of blood in this area as well so apparently the carpet cutting didn't go as perfect as somebody had planned um now she uh when he was there there weren't any um uh when the first cop was there there weren't any holes or throw rugs on the carpet they say so or no

that's the i'm sorry her friend who was there the week before got it said there was no holes when she was there there was that was when she was there. That was carpet there. There was carpet and it didn't have a throw rug on it to cover anything or anything like that. So now this Rebecca White said that when Michelle came by her house the Friday before she went missing, she said

that Michelle told her that she had quote had something really important to tell her. But she said Michelle left because White was sick. She was ill, so she didn't come in and talk to her. But she said, I just came. I have something really important to tell you, but I guess I'll tell you later and took off. Never got it out of her.

And never got it out of her. She said that was the last time she saw Michelle. She took off something really important and then she goes missing. She took off something really important and then she goes missing. So now Rebecca White also said that after Michelle went missing, she would watch Ethan. She would watch their son while Barry was working. So she was like their babysitter after that because it was usually Michelle who would watch the kids. Now it's just Ethan and Barry, right? Yeah. So this woman told the cops also that she thought that Barry's interaction with his son was what she described as, quote, a little strange.

Saying that he never mentioned Michelle and it didn't seem like, quote, it wasn't like he was concerned. So he was just like going on like, well, mom's gone. All right. Drop off here. Pick you up at four. See you later. Here we go. Come on, buddy. Like there was no like. on like, well, mom's gone. All right. Drop off here. Pick you up at four. See you later. Here we go. Come on, buddy.

Like there was no like. And it's still fresh. Holy shit. I'm still missing. Oh, yeah. It's I mean, it's she's been missing a week. She's been missing a week and a half. You know, that sort of thing.

Just no word of anything. Well, I don't know. Here you go. Thanks for watching the kid. I don't want to bring it up. It makes him sad. So let's. Yeah.

But not even like, you know, you think he would say something to her of you know this is fucked up or also there are mountain man might might want to keep his emotions to himself maybe he doesn't want to talk about it get upset look like a pussy you know look like a city boy you have no idea you don't know you know what i mean just having any sort of compassion and worry about a specific person, wouldn't you at least ask, have you heard from her? Well, I would assume that they would bring that up. That would be first because the cops are looking for her. But he said nothing. He said nothing. He didn't mention her at all.

But on this, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on however he's acting. Because like I said, a lot of people try to act stoic and act like it's fine you know what i mean especially a guy like him seems like he wouldn't want to show any weakness yeah i've never had uh my significant other disappear no except for no they usually tell me i'm not you're never gonna see me again yeah i know when they're leaving i know when it's over yeah we get it it's usually their decision no yeah so they they but they can't find her and um but the carpet being cut out is definitely not normal that's odd so one week after she goes missing a week later her car is found they find her car 1990 toyota

camry um it had been abandoned at the edge of a wooded area, which isn't good. No. Just an abandoned car sitting there. And when they found the car, the detective said that, quote, Barry didn't seem that upset or interested when her car had been found. He was just like, all right. Like real stoic. It's just like, all right, like real, real stoic. So they're like, is this guy just the most most stoic cat in the world? Or because he acts so suspiciously that you're like, if he actually did anything, no one would act this suspiciously.

Right. This is just a stoic mountain weirdo. Yeah. Has to be. Perhaps he's like, where's Michelle? We don't know, but we have found her car. Well, I asked, where's Michelle? Yeah don't know but we have found her car well i asked where's michelle yeah that's what i mean i don't know if he's just real simple and just like well when i see it i see it

type of thing i don't know not a camry so keep looking yeah well that's good uh was she in it no well that's you should keep looking then probably seems like you're close keep looking because i'm looking for her mainly right that's the main thing I'm looking for, really. Can't really kiss a Camry nor snuggle it at night. I mean, you can. Don't get me wrong. I suppose. It's a nice place for a post-Hardy biscuit nap. I'm not going to lie.

But other than that, it's just not warm. You don't want to run the car to snuggle it for any warmth. If you just snuggle a cold car. You got to warm it up. I mean, Jesus Christ. You got to get the tech going so barry's interviewed by a news camera crew and there's pictures of him being interviewed and he wore the hat and the overalls and i mean it's like wow because you present yourself hi i'm from the hills find please. Like, that's what it looked like.

Does he have a feather in it? No feather. No feather. He's missing the feather. That's what I mean. Then I would just say, oh, it's a Robin Hood type of deal. It's not. I want to Robin Hood on it so bad.

I don't know what it is. It's like it's a very unique situation to him. I can't wait to post it now. I can't wait to see it. I know. So at the time her car was found here barry tells the local news station waff 48 uh investigative report here that quote they say there wasn't any sign of foul play in the car so that gives me hope that she's still alive So there's no blood or anything in the car. There's no sign of,

you know, there's no broken off gauges or, you know, like the windshield wiper thing isn't broken. A windshield kicked out from the inside or something that somebody, you know, I'll play. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast.

Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So he gives the interview here, and he says, they said that the discovery of the car, did that give you hope or did it hurt? And that's when she said when he said that they said he remained oddly calm and his demeanor is dead calm.

And they said that it was just six weeks go by. They still can't find her. So it's a little bit weird weird. And there's posters up. They're dragging rivers. There's a young mother missing. I mean, this is like, where the fuck did she go? So, I mean, dragging rivers, dogs, planes, helicopters, you name it. They're looking for this lady and they cannot find her. So they did find a bit of blood on the carpet in the master bedroom outside of the area that was cut out.

And they said that – now, they asked Barry why was there blood over here. And he said, oh, it's just that was an accident a while ago. I got blood on it. So he got blood on it. Now, again, people bleed. They bleed in their place, yeah. I was hanging out with my cousin last week, and he was showing me this thing, and just stabbed himself in the finger and was bleeding all over the place

and dripped a little bit of blood on his floor. And I just said, wow, if you die tonight, and I was here, this blood on the floor is going to be a problem for me. You know that, right? You realize I'm going to have to explain that. We need a video of you saying. My house. Yeah.

If anybody bleeds anywhere around you, get a video of them explaining why they're bleeding. I'm not even kidding. It could save you 50 years in prison. Just do it. And then kill them afterwards. It'll be perfect. The perfect crime. Oh, man. So they're doing all this shit they're they're you know barry saying it was just an accident in there now a couple of friends tell the police that michelle had confided

in them that she wanted to leave barry but didn't have anywhere to go she was like i'd like to leave him but where am i gonna go i'm stuck here i'm on this very common yeah very common especially in a in a really like a remote area like this it's right it's probably even more nine out of ten people that want a divorce are like yeah where am i gonna go yeah but i mean her mom lives nearby okay yeah but that doesn't no but it's better than if it's obviously better if it's an abusive yeah but we've heard nothing by the way there's no no accusations of any spousal abuse here at all too like even her friends say they never she never said that barry abused her hit her

did anything like that so this isn't like an abusive situation that we know of either that or she kept it really quiet and really under wraps, which is also possible. You know, that's an embarrassing thing for some people. And rather than go for help, they're embarrassed about it, which is understandable human nature. So the friend said, though, but she had nowhere to go. And there was people – as the weeks go by, people in the community start really questioning whether Barry's involved in this or not. So on the news broadcast, they ask him straight out. Do you have anything to do with your wife's disappearance?

Yeah. He said, no, sir. Nothing. Does it hurt you that some of the family's even thinking about that? He says, yes. His answers are not long this guy is not a conversationalist you gotta ask him open-ended questions open-ended if you give him a yes or no option he's taking it so yeah he's hitting the yes or no this reporter really is probably then again in this in the middle of nowhere out here i don't know this is probably a place like your first reporting job so right

yeah you know you got to ask open-ended questions and this isn't it sure yeah yes or no then then he says an open-ended question because he knows he's not getting anything from this person so they say what's going through your mind oh here we go maybe that was actually like somebody writing down yes what is going through his mind and then he answered his deal so he says quote anything and everything and then he says i just don't know what to think and that's all he's done talking that's what's going through his mind. I have more questions. Anything and everything, I just don't know what to think. That's no answer is what I just gave you. Nothing, yeah.

Which is a dumb thing to say. What's going through your mind? I'm fucking scared for my wife. I'm worried about her. My son, you know, we have a five-year-old here. His mother's missing. This is horrible. There's a lot of answers to what's going on through your mind at this point.

Not anything and everything. I don't know what to think. That's a weird answer. That what's going on through your mind at this point. Not anything and everything. I don't know what to think. That's a weird answer. That question would fucking infuriate me. Yeah. Are you out of your fucking mind? Look at me. I'm a single dad.

I don't know how to do this shit. That's what I mean. What do you think I'm thinking? I'm terrified. Jesus Christ. My fucking wife's missing. I got a kid here. I'm going to have to tell him his mom's not coming home.

What am I supposed to do? And I don't even know anything. That's the problem. He just says says i don't know what to think so uh another friend this is a friend of barry's now billy bar uh barrentine billy barrentine a friend of barry's he said that he and barry's barry were close friends uh during this period and uh it's from their mutual interest in farming is how they became friends, he said. Which that'll get you,

when you have things in common, that's going to help. And especially when it's that. It's such a thing that's done in solitude. Yeah. There's a lot of time to yourself. If somebody else does, you're like, you're alone all the time too?

You too? Shit, right? Isn't it great? Isn't it awful? Ain't it the best nobody bothering you i do wish i could get a pizza delivered i'd like to see a pizza delivery person is the only person i really want to see but damn it be god damned if i can't get one with your thoughts do you hate yourself all day me too me too high five all right you ever want to just kill your wife and cut up a chunk of carpet in her bedroom?

Yeah. Me too. Shit. All right. High five. So they said, this guy, Billy, he said that he met Michelle when he went over to Barry and Michelle's home. And he said he went over frequently to visit.

They were good friends. He said that all three of them went on a trip a couple months before michelle went missing yeah they went on a third wheel trip there yeah and they when he's asked by the police did he see any tension or friction between the couple and he said and all the time when he was around them he never saw any issues between them they were always they always got along nobody had like just a random black eye out of nowhere or anything like that it seemed like they had a good relationship they said did you ever see michelle look sad or upset and uh he said he never did at all um now other people who weren't barry's friends

they said they had seen her visibly upset on multiple instances before her disappearance, saying she was going to leave her husband and shit like that. So she just wasn't happy, obviously. She wasn't happy in her marriage, which, you know, that happens. So they Billy, the friend, said that when Michelle report was reported missing, he talked to Barry and Barry was visibly shaken and appeared to be upset and concerned about it so he was upset and concerned only to his one friend otherwise he was very stoic which is kind of in character for Barry sure sure and he trusts his friend and in front of Billy it seems like he does everything right and yeah Billy has a whether it whether he's in a relationship in front of him or yeah most missing wife uh he's doing the right behaviors and later on they asked billy like you know well what would change your mind to think that billy you know barry had something to do

with all this and if you did find out then what would you think he goes wouldn't change my opinion of him none so it's like he just that's my friend, so I don't care, whatever. So they need to check out the car and the physical evidence around the car because this is all they have is the car. So they found a wallet on the ground near the car. Not good. Not great. Okay, a wallet. This wallet, through tracing, doesn't take much to trace through a driver's license that's inside of it.

Pretty easy to figure it out. It belongs to, drumroll, Shane Byram. Shane Byram is the guy's name. Who the fuck is Shane? Where the fuck did Shane come from now? B-Y-R-U-n or m shane byram um so byram according they talked to obviously they want to have a chit chat with him after they find his wallet next to a missing woman's car in uh boise idaho and they just bought his wallet at the unclaimed baggage

that's probably what happened no he lives around that area but he said i'm always losing things i lost my wallet and his father and his wife also told the police oh he just constantly losing shit shane shane can't hold on to nothing losing his wallet he lost it three times last year so i do that constant anytime i leave the house i walk to the door and go fuck where's my keys and then i have to wander around the house then i get back to the front door i'm like fuck where's my wallet but your wallet's not gone multiple times a year i do it in a hotel room i lose that's yeah me too within five feet of my radius one room, and I'm tearing it apart looking for shit that I know is there. So they said that this property where the car was found is owned by the Byram family.

Oh, easy peasy. And they said that Shane and his father would work where the car was found. They would work around there often, and they had worked out there prior to the disappearance, a couple weeks before they found the wallet, and Shane and his father had been out of town on business when Michelle disappeared. So, Shane has an airtight alibi.

Sean has, Shane, has left town post-losing his wallet? He didn't... Left town, no wallet. Went out of town with no wallet apparently but okay he is it checks out he's absolutely not in the state when the uh when the disappearance happened that day so shame is that's how much he loses his fucking wallet he literally loses it and then someone pulls a missing woman's car directly next to the wall. That's terrible luck. That's the worst.

That's like that. If and it's a big if. If Stephen Avery's actually innocent of the of that second murder, that would be that level of bad luck of like, are you kidding me? What? That's the kind of bad luck I would have to have to for him to be innocent. that's the kind of bad luck i would have to have to for him to be innocent patrice used to say that he doesn't even litter because with his luck he'd throw a dr pepper can into a bush and there will be a white woman's body there and they would frame him for murder it's no it's i just told you to take a picture of someone if they accidentally cut themselves around you not take a picture take a

video with them explaining the wound so i'm on the same page with patrice on that shit yeah never never leave anything anywhere because there's gonna be a body there i'm telling you it's the truth you don't know shit it's very terrifying i'm sure that's happened to people before so the man left town with no wallet james i'm no wallet that is that's some seedier pants alabama hills living right there isn't it that's crazy no wallet let's go moving on business to do elsewhere let's just go let's just go fuck it so that is uh very interesting they uh in the car they are able to get um uh, I'm sorry, here, yeah, they are able to get a fingerprint, one perfect print out of the car.

One lone print. One lone print on the seatbelt. Perfect. The metal part. Yeah. Wonderful. You can get a great print off of that. Oh, boy.

And it comes out. You don't have to put powder on it. You can just look at a seatbelt and see somebody's perfect fingerprint on it every time. Look at it standing out. Right there. There it is. Right there. So the fingerprint belongs to?

Who are we going to do? Drum roll. Shane Byram. Sheriff Phillips. God damn it, Phillips. This fucking idiot just didn't put gloves on when he was looking through the car. Chucky P just wandering around this car. Then he's like, I found a

print! And they're like, it's yours stupid, you fucking idiot. You made the print, then found it. You're either a murderer or a moron. Which one? Sheriff, are you a murderer or a complete fucking jackass dildo? Which one are you? Because I'm getting tired of figuring this shit

out. We're in the same section of the dictionary which one are you under which one i'll stay in the m's till you think about it for a minute all right jesus christ i already got the a i got that folded under asshole so don't worry so they got that um he said oh he didn't realize um that it was his print sorry about that and it obviously didn't match the suspects um he uh they couldn't find you know michelle's print uh the only print that was the only print of value in the car that wasn't one of michelle's prints which obviously they would be in her car um they searched Shane Byram's home, actually, just to make sure.

Poor bastard. This poor guy. He's like, I just, I'm just, I'm just, I lose things, okay? I'm just kind of clumsy. I got loose pockets, and sometimes I sit down and things fall. I don't know, man. Come on. Don't go through all my porn.

Jesus Christ. You're about to lose your freedom, man. Oh, man. Lactating Latinas now they found now i'm you know what am i supposed to do now i'm embarrassed this is ridiculous now they know what i jerk off to god damn it jesus christ they found it all so uh they said that uh nothing there they didn't find anything in the home anything around anything of shane's that would connect him to the murder just the wallet found next to the car so they also when they found the car a purse with money was found in it as well okay so car with her person at michelle's purse is still there with money in it so not a robbery nope like she

got car jack because i assume they'd go through a purse that was in the car so the one likely didn't leave on her own because if you do that, you're going to need your purse and money. You always take your purse and money, especially in the days of cash being a big deal. She doesn't have her debit card in her sweatpant pocket or something. So the police officer said it looked like theft wasn't the intention. It looked like it was just dropped off the car, meaning. So her purse had her driver's license in it and everything i

mean it was her complete purse also in the car they found so her purse with license and cash uh a jacket uh a gun she had as well keys and some other items that were personal items that's was only in there nothing no like a not like a big bloody knife under the seat or something or nothing can't find her so it's insane right um this goes on for another month after this so it's it's a month and three weeks later january 20th ethan's birthday by the way stop it 1998 they find michelle oh wow happy birthday bud uh good news bad news uh good news we got ice cream cake from the carvel with them crunchies in it you're gonna like that a lot i know those are your favorite bad news is your mama's dead so good news i got you your mom back for for your birthday uh bad news uh we're gonna have to go identify her at the morgue so she's found here uh near powell it is

this is fucking terrible man um her body was removed from a hole and i have a picture of the hole too that was approximately five to six feet deep and it was the coal was covered in rocks it wasn't dug like a grave though it's dug like a hole and then she's like kind of stuffed in it and there's some shit poured on top of her post hole yeah he just dug a wider post hole that's all it was there was no like someone did there was no you know it wasn't a like a rectangular right at all thing it'll show laying she's like standing on her head i get or crumpled up in a ball stuffed in there you know so that's that's how that's how they find her um and it would have been covered with rocks and things like that and it was on a hillside on a

property that we'll talk about here the property owner discovered this and called the police they're just walking on their property so they said when uh the cop said when they got there a trail could be followed so there was a trail leading right over to where the body was, like over to this area. It was off a trail. Buried on private property. On private property, yeah. Off a trail. So they're like, huh, that's interesting.

Also, the property owner said that he saw what looked like tire tracks from a small truck. And it said it looked like it had been some time before someone had driven out there. So they go, looks like there's tire tracks from a small truck. And it said it looked like it had been some time before someone had driven out there. So they go, looks like there's tire tracks from a small truck. Looks like they've been here for quite some time. That's what he's trying to tell them. Doesn't look like anybody else has driven out here in a while because this is the middle of fucking nowhere

on a private property road. So he also said, this is the cop, said that he could see cotton-like material stuck to the shrubs along the path to where the body was found. So like a predator, if it bleeds cotton, we can kill it situation. So there's a

cotton there. And he said it was on both sides of the trail and went almost all the way down to where the body was. Really? So yeah, there was a bunch of cotton being taken by the shrubs and shit on the side. Shrubs and shit, just grabbing it off of whatever. Yeah. That's wild.

That's very, very fucking weird. And now they tell Barry, hey, Michelle, we found your wife. And they said when they told him they found your wife and she is, you know. Yeah. They didn't even ask. In a very horrible way. They just said we found Michelle, which could mean anything. We found her living in Nova Scotia with, you know, a radio DJ.

It could be anything. Who found her? She's a shrimp and boat captain. It's crazy, right? Yeah. She's working the mighty Mississippi. But instead they said he didn't ask where they found her. They didn't ask.

He didn't ask, is she okay? Is she dead? Is she hurt? What happened? Nothing. Didn't ask whether she had any injuries. And when they asked, do you have any questions? He said, no.

He just said, we found your wife, and he was like, all right. That was it. He said, don't you have any questions? And he went, no, I'm good. That means I know the answers, right? Don't have to ask if she's okay or where she was if I killed her and put her there probably. So I think that's what the cops are thinking too. I know the answers to both of the key parts.

Yeah. That's like the number one most suspicious thing you can do if you kill a spouse is to be like not ask questions about what the fuck is going on. Where has she been? That's not a question. Someone who cares and doesn't already know the answers, ask questions because that's normal. That's what a normal person would do. So, yeah, this is uh very very interesting and they said they also didn't recall him being upset in any way he didn't like break down he didn't like you know sit down and put his even like run his hands through his hair knock his hat off his head and yeah you know scrunch up his

beard a little bit nothing like he didn't grab his overall straps nothing yeah you know crumple to his knees undo one overall strap and vow revenge just undo one and go i swear to god when i find the man that did this to my wife he doesn't even know did they tell him that she's dead or did well they had to they had to then tell him that fucking that uh she was dead no no they were just like yeah she's dead on the hillside and he was like all right okay um she was when they find her they uh wow she's she's been through the mill a bit here um she had been bludgeoned multiple times in the head blunt force trauma to the head with what they assume and now this is a very big assumption but the medical examiner says it is consistent with the butt of a shotgun how many shotgun beatings has he seen that's what i mean i guess in this area

probably quite a few but he said that's what it's consistent with which it could also be consistent with probably a lot of things you know the butt the butt of a rifle. Two by four. Yeah. Fucking anything. Anything. So things that aren't mistakable, though. She has been, and these are bad, like bad blunt force trauma to the head, too. Back two to the back of the head, one to the side of the head.

Also, her throat is cut and her face is slashed up as well. What the fuck? And she's been stabbed in the chest also. Huh. So this is like three killings basically. Yeah. This is blunt force trauma, cut throat, and stabbed. That's someone making sure.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot. That's mad and personal. That's exactly what that is. And it cuts to the face things like that that's that's either personal or a serial killer's weird twitch but yeah that's either yeah that's like a fucking yeah a kink or and a hang up or like you'll never be pretty again yeah exactly one of those two things which if you're beating her with a shotgun and stabbing her in the chest, that's pretty irrelevant at that point anyway.

Exactly. So her temporal bone, which is the hardest bone in the human body. Where is that? On the back. Your temporal is in your skull, I think, isn't it? Yeah. I think it's the back of the head, right? Yeah.

Temporal bone was fractured. Or is that the front? That might be the fucking. Either way. Temporal lobe. Isn't that the front? Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, it's got to be the fucking either way temporal lobe isn't that the front yeah i think it is it's your goddamn skull and it was crushed from blunt force so they said it was pretty pretty hard um by the way the spot she was buried in this shallow grave is a place that barry

whitton had repeatedly told many of his friends that that's in the past that that spot is, quote, his favorite spot in the world. Oh, no. It's a shady hillside on a property that he had been run off of many times over the years because it's not his property. My favorite place in the world somebody owns. Somebody else's property that I like to go squat on and look at the sunset once in a while. So that's what's going on here.

That's not good either. Now, yeah, they said that one of the reaction here from her friends, one of her friends said, I will always remember her happy, bubbly personality. I know she's missed by many people, me included. One guy said that I miss her and I miss her smile. She was a friend. I saw her every day going to work. People liked her in the area.

She was considered friendly and nice and more friendly than most of the people around these parts kind of thing. Now, there is a shotgun involved in here, and that is Dennis Witten. That is the good Reverend Dennis Witten here, Barry's father here. Daddy Witten. Daddy Witten. Daddy Dennis Witten, that is the good Reverend Dennis Witten here, Barry's father here. Daddy Witten. Daddy Witten. Daddy Dennis Witten. He has asked if his son had given him anything after Michelle's disappearance. Hey, your kid didn't give you anything.

And he said, well, just a shotgun. Or like, all righty. Could he do anything less suspicious? More suspicious? Yeah. More or less conspicuous. This is a disaster. This is bad shit.

Everything done on his behavior is bad. It's all bad. He does nothing to dispel suspicion at all. None. Nothing. If anything, he makes it worse. worse he's like if he didn't do it he actively sat down beforehand and he's beforehand and said oh fuck these people i'm gonna make them all think i did it fuck them that's the only explanation for this is that

he's trying to make people think he did it he framed himself he framed himself. He framed himself. God, boy, framed himself. Now, this shotgun, Dennis Witten said he had given it to his son because it was a family heirloom and it had been in the family. He got it from his father, and then he passed it down to Barry. It's an old shotgun. He said, but Barry had given it back to him after Michelle went missing. He said it was within a week of the disappearance, which is very suspicious again. Not good. And he said that Barry said he didn't want the law to confiscate it because he's a felon and he's not supposed to have guns.

So he said, you take this shotgun. I don't want the law to confiscate it because it has sentimental value to me. Not only did it belong to pop pop but i also killed my wife with it so you know them two things together between pop pop and michelle this thing is just a lot of meaning to me wow so um so dennis said sure he took it back and then he ended up giving it to the investigators when asked for it obviously right so uh jerry carter's another guy he says that he's known barry witton his whole life and he has worked for years doing tire mechanics on cars in section that's what jerry does for a living here jerry carter carter said

he put tires on witton's car for him about a month before Michelle went missing. He said that he saw Barry the morning Michelle was reported missing. He said he passed Barry while driving and Barry was driving while partially situated in both lanes. So he's just driving down the middle of the fucking road dangerously. Yeah. He said he knew it was Witten's truck right away because he had put the mud grips on the back of the truck and street tires on the front. And he was the guy who did it. So he goes, yeah. He's got mudders and street tires?

Mudders on the back and street tires on the front. This is a weird area. What kind of gas rod is he running around down? This is a very, very strange mountain, Jimmy. This is a very specific truck. You're not mistaking that for shit like a tractor truck yeah it's very weird it's very very very weird that's hysterical it's that's for like that's for like mud plowing or like uh yeah it's for farm work and that's that's for for sure right? Yeah, the tractor pulls. That's what a John Deere has on it.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It has mudder tires on the back. Get grip in the mud and then you're steering wheels up front there. That's so funny. It's so weird. Picture this guy driving that too and you really got something. So he said he put the grips on. He knew all about it.

He put the mud grips on. He said that he saw Witten out. He knew all about it. He put the mud grips on. He said that he saw Witten out. This was before 10 o'clock in the morning. So this goes against his 1103 note. Right. So there's that. They asked this carter if he could see inside the truck, and he said, sure, I could. And he said, well, what was in there?

And he said something was on the floorboard that was higher than the seat but not as high as the dash so it came up higher than where someone's ass would sit but not all the way up to the dashboard and it was covered up they said did you see a car seat or a toddler in the car you know like a five-year-old anywhere and he said that he did not so ethan's not with him but something is sitting on the floorboard of the car covered up, which is consistent with what that cop saw that morning when he passed him with some sort of covering of some kind of blanket or something on the front seat. So that goes together. If you crumple a person on your floorboard, that's about the height, right? That would be about the height. And yeah, a small woman and you crumple and then you put a blanket over her and her sleeping bag and that sort of something, cotton, that would get caught on shrubbery as you walk down a trail.

Right. Something like that. Yeah. And also if she was crumpled up, that would make a lot of sense for the whole too. If she was like in rigor in that position, crumpled, that would make a lot more sense to when she put her in there so yeah so uh carter they said um they asked him why didn't you tell police about this and he said i don't know i just talked about it to my just gossiped about it around the mountain didn't really think it was important that's my friend didn't uh we were looking for his wife at

the time yeah he, that's all. Now, Barry's behavior throughout all of this remains completely indifferent. Just, I don't know, weird, right? Wow, she's dead, huh? Did they get TV up here? Yeah, I don't think. Does he not know how bad this looks? There has to be an antenna somewhere that picks up NBC so you can get Law and Order and know you're in deep shit in the 90s. I'm trying to think of what you would have seen.

You got to know that, boy, am I doing everything wrong. Matt Locke or the Rockford Files or some 70s show. Fucking Perry Mason. Perry Mason. Even T.J. Hooker was chasing people like this. I'm thinking of 70s shows for him. Goddamn anything. A towel was found with the body.

Multiple things are found with the body, like some duct tape in a sweatshirt and on her sweatshirt and also this towel. Now, this towel matches the towels that the Wittens have at their house. That seems bad. By the way, that was buried on his favorite place in the world. But they said that this was a popular brand. It was a very popular brand. It's the most common towel there is. So they were like, you're probably right.

I probably have the most popular towels in my house. I would have no fucking idea because I don't know towel brands. And I'm sure they bought it at the same place in town. Everybody else buys something. So, yeah, that makes sense. They went to Walmart and bought towels for a dollar, you know. So they said that although Barry knew the spot that Michelle was found in from his childhood, you know, and all that, and it was one of his favorite spots,

and they had a towel that matched the house but didn't, you know, didn't know if it came from the house blood that can't be identified as anything because they said the carpet must have been cleaned since then and put cleaning fluids in it. So degrades all the DNA and the square cut out of the fucking rug. All of this, though, there's not a lot of evidence so they go in with a fine tooth comb and try to find blood anywhere in the bedroom on the walls looking for a spatter because if you were beating somebody with a shotgun like that blood would fly up but barry had repainted the room all right repainted repainted the whole room cut out a square i mean it looks as guilty as a human being could look.

I don't know, James. Sometimes when your better half is missing and you've got to occupy yourself, you're just like, you know what? I'm going to redecorate. I'm going to paint. Painting takes time. That cutting in, you really got to concentrate. She hates the smell. The fumes get to her.

So I'll do it before she gets home. I'll surprise her. Now when she gets home, she's going to go, oh, it's beautiful. Jesus. Nice job. And then it's blowjobs for Barry after that putty. I'll tell you what. Blowjobs for Barry time. I know what to do.

Every Sunday. Blowjobs all day. All day long. Now the investigator in this case, Atkinson, he said quote, too many things that were not a coincidence. The location where where Mrs. Witten was found. Evidence in the house that we looked at. His lack of concern for his wife.

The questions that he asked for his wife. The questions that he asked. Statements that he made to me. The fact that the other people that were you might call persons of interest didn't even know the Wittens. So it wasn't like there was some beef that, you know, the Byroms actually had beef with them. He said, quote, I ruled them out pretty quickly. I want to make this clear. When I got into this, Mr. Witten was a person of interest along with five or six others, and we ruled those out pretty quick.

It's not necessarily that we ruled them out as much as Barry ruled himself in. You know you say you put your right foot in, you take your right foot out. He just never took it out. Everybody else took it out, shook it all about. He just said, no, I'm good, and just kept it right in the middle of the investigation. He put his right foot in. Then he put his left foot in, and then he just stayed there shaking all about it. Shaking up, put a DNAna swab in and shake it all

about you know how it goes he just jumped himself in and you do the murder pokey and you turn yourself around that's what it's all about this fucking idiot you dig a big old hole you grab your wife in the car stuff her into your seat and you put a blanket on. You get out to the woods and you put her in a hole. That's what it's all about. You cut a piece of carpet and you get the butt of that. Repaint your bedroom and you say you don't know. Give a shotgun to your father and that's how it goes. That's what it's all about.

Pop, pop, pop. The murder. The murder folk. You kill your own wife and incriminate yourself. Say everything wrong and have no alibi. Asshole. Fucking ridiculous. More physical evidence to evidence includes fibers that came from the grave where Michelle had been found, fibers from the path leading to the grave, also soil samples, fiber from rugs in the Witton's home, duct tape, a washcloth, and a hand towel that matched the ones from the house.

Michelle's pink sweatshirt that had duct tape on it found with her body and a shovel. This is all the evidence they've collected. duct tape on it found with her body and a shovel this is all the evidence they've collected okay fibers found at the scene were not consistent to items found in the home oh okay which is not good no but i mean he could have had a blanket taking it from the home and now it's in a yeah i mean what yeah if it's not a set who cares um also additional items that were turned in included a vacuum cleaner sleeping bag coat and fibers taken from two plastic bags from the laundry room of the Witten's home. They said they compared, uh, the fibers found at the burial scene to those items and they didn't match either. Hmm. Okay. Now, uh, the state asked what the fibers found at the scene might be consistent with, and they said, the lab came back and said that those particular fibers are usually consistent with filler material, like the shit in pillows, sleeping bags, jackets, comforters, things like that.

That puffy shit, yeah. That puffy shit that would- That shit at Build-A-Bear that's in a rotate. Absolutely. That if you were walking with a bunch of that shit hanging off, it would catch in build a bear that's in a rotate absolute that when you if you were walking with a bunch of that shit hanging off it would catch in every branch as you walk through a trail and it pulls so wispy and pulls more out yeah and then that part grabs a branch and pulls more out and more it's like a tissue box there's always just that little nubbin

that hangs out blowing in the even when there's no breeze, it's like not, it can't just hang. It's always, air moves it around. So nothing is matching though. They said that, yeah, that's what those are. They said that the duct tape found from the sleeve of the sweatshirt and duct tape found at the home didn't contain fingerprints that could be used. And they also found that the two didn't match.

So they were different duct tapes as well. So they don't have much of that. Also soil found on the shovel and at the house and soil found at the scene were different. Now they don't, the problem is they don't get any of this shit till over a week after she disappeared. So who knows?

He could have been digging other holes. Yeah. That she disappeared so who knows he could have been digging other holes right yeah that's what i mean he could have been digging other holes um it's interesting so the court was also later on told that the contents of the vacuum bag was they vacuumed the whole house to find anything physical material found nothing as well there no evidence um there's pictures of the carpet in the master bedroom which is the carpet is the thing they keep concentrating on the week before according to a witness that carpet is intact now wife missing now the bedroom's repainted and there's a chunk of carpet cut out and there's unidentified blood that's been cleaned in the last two weeks you live in a fucking cabin in alabama how often do

you fucking go to the store and rent a carpet cleaner and really get in there deep how often does that happen probably yeah and what why is the carpet missing yeah what are you cutting out of the what the fuck nobody has chunks of carpet missing anywhere unless they're murdering people that's that's the only reason why i've never been like i'll just cut a chunk out of this carpet put a throw rug on it i've been cutting stains out of this house for years if you're poor and you have a stain because i've been there before you get a fucking rug at that point you put it over the stain that's how it works or you just walk over the stain and until the rest of the rug matches that stain yep you go get that fucking

what's the shit you spray on drug doctor and the resolve resolve it first then you go to the grocery store you rent the rug doctor you bring it over you work it over here so doctor that smells like animal piss because that's the only reason people use it well my cat keeps peeing on the carpet so i'll rent this and then return it to you. I'm getting my security deposit back. Fuck that. But not on this carpet cleaner. No. On my apartment.

So they said, yeah, that brought up a lot of questions. Cut out pieces of carpet. Also area where that tested positive for blood. The nature of the test done, they said it was positive for human blood but not positive for any dna because um and also what deteriorated deteriorated and what they called they said the blood they found was in a drag pattern in the master bedroom as well what the fuck like she was killed bled out in one area was cut out, and then he dragged her somewhere else but just tried to clean that part up is what they're saying. You know what is never an accident is drag blood marks.

That's always – there's never been a story of like, oh, look, I can explain that away. No, you can't. No, you can't. Then other areas of the carpet in the master bedroom showed that blood might be present, but they didn't test positive for human blood. But they said that it was also cleaned recently, too. So some of them might not have been. Oh, my God. So didn't get any DNA.

They asked if there was any DNA. They said there was no DNA found in these spots. if there was any DNA, they said there was no DNA found in these spots. They also, they said later on, his lawyers will ask, could those drag marks have been made by somebody who cut their ankle? And he said, well, if they dragged their ankle on the floor, then yeah. I mean, sure. But who the hell walks like that in their own house? I mean, just drag my bloody ankle.

Let me, hold on. I'm going to clot this up with the carpet fibers let me rub it on the carpet who the fuck does that oh look i made a little mess i'm gonna make it worse yeah let me drag let me smear it now it looks like the art it's better so um they said that they didn't know whether this blood came from barry michelle ethan or whoever the fuck else could have been there. They said, yeah. So Michelle's mom here said that, you know, at first, you know, Barry just said she went out to get Hardee's and that was that. But now after a while, after a couple months, he came to her with a different story. He said, look, I didn't want to tell you this at first because I thought you'd be upset by it. But Michelle stole some money from me that I had that morning and she went out to buy drugs that morning. That's why she left. So I don't know.

This could have to do with some drug dealer or something like that. But that's that's that was why she was leaving. It wasn't for Hardee's. It was for it was for drugs. You know, that's how it goes. And the mother said, quote, I kept telling him, Barry, she wasn't on drugs. And he said, yes, she was. And he said the mother said, I said, you need to tell the police. Then if this is so, then you need to tell the police. I don't think it's true. But if it is fucking tell them and we'll find out through that.

So then later on, though, Barry came to her and said that that wasn't true. See, I thought that was going to stop everything. I figured now it's now it's made it worse. If you just say drugs and people are like, oh, it must have been drugs. And then I'll leave me alone and I'll just watch, you know, I'll watch the Alabama Auburn game on Saturday. That's what my plan was. But it ain't working out that way. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had

an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence

and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened and with over 450 episodes there's a case for every true crime listener follow the generation y podcast on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So, Mom... Surprisingly, if you tell somebody who has a loved one, a child of theirs was murdered. Surprisingly, when you explain that their child was a drug

addict, and that's probably why they're... They aren't okay with that, and they want more investigation done. They're not thrilled with it, and they'd like to... But, in the end, though, Mom doesn't want to hide it. She says, if it's true, tell the cops then, because fuck, let's find Michelle, or let's find out who did this to Michelle. They found her at this point. So, Michelle's mom said, quote, Barry said later on, I want to tell you something else.

She didn't go to buy drugs that morning. We know, Barry. I just told you that. tell you something else she didn't go to she didn't go to buy drugs that morning we know barry i just told you that i said i knew when you told me that that that wasn't so and she said he was crying too and i was crying and we were just standing there talking so there's no reason in the world if this is all all my wife went out for hardies didn't come home to tell her mom she went out for drugs and then be like wait no she didn't

and be crying there's no reason on earth if this is all innocent for you to do that what would that make her mom feel oh I thought she just went out for biscuits and gravy but she went out for drugs that's much better like what the fuck did she no reason for that other than to get blame off for drugs that's much better like what the fuck did she no reason for that other than to get blame off of you that's the only thing so time goes by 1998 goes by

they don't have any evidence they have no actual physical evidence that matches they don't really have they have a lot of puzzle pieces that seem to make a picture but none of the pieces actually fit together which is a huge problem we've got enough to know exactly what happened yeah and not be able to prove it enough to go into a courtroom and tell them exactly what happened absolutely that's the fucking problem. So later on in 1998, he just meets another woman. Okay. Moving on. So he meets another woman.

He's not being charged or anything. He puts a personal ad in a local magazine. So when we do personal ads. Try to find that. When we do them, I mean, this is what could be out there when we're doing these old newspaper ads. Boy, oh boy. Yeah, this is from Kim's sister. The woman he'll meet is named Kim, Kimberly.

And her sister said, quote, his friends had put his name in one of those little buy-sell-trader-like magazines, telling him he just needed to find somebody after Michelle's death. Kim was lonely, and she just saw his name in there and she contacted him. And they met and they just hit it off and they got along really well and Haley really liked him too. She has a daughter. She has a daughter. Now Kimberly Michelle Compton is the woman

who he meets who will become Kimberly Michelle Compton Witten after that. She's also, she's born 1970 so she's like a year younger than him. So at least he's always dating in his age range. That's nice. He doesn't find like a 12-year-old like Ty Cobb's father or anything.

So now it's him, Kim, Haley, and Ethan in the same house. And Ethan. Haley and Ethan are the same age. They're both 11 years old. So it couldn't work out any better. Haley is Haley Breanne Caldwell is her name. And she's born in the same age. They're both 11 years old. So it couldn't work out any better. Haley is Haley Breanne Caldwell is her name. And she's born in the same time and whatever.

So here we go now. Jesus fucking Christ. They're going and wow. All right. I think Ethan's actually a couple years older but yeah Ethan's a couple years older but they have kids at this point. So now Kimberly Kim is a licensed practical nurse at a nursing home.

That's LPN at a nursing home. So that's what she does for a living. She works at the Cloverdale Manor Nursing Home in Scottsboro. Yeah, like I said, daughter here, Haley. There we go. Now, Kim doesn't live up on this mountain oh so she's heard nothing about barry nothing about yeah doesn't know shit about michelle missing all the rumors that have been flying around for the last couple years doesn't know a goddamn thing about it so that's

pretty interesting honestly um she's and when she didn't find out about any of it until after they were already married because they'll get married here so they got married and uh she just figured he was had to be innocent they didn't charge him with anything and one of those things like it's the middle and these little towns there's a gossip is the fucking lifeblood of it so she's not really taking any of that gossip shit to heart. She's just like, yeah, I'm sure it's fine. So they got married four to six months after meeting. Real soon, real quick. And this is two single people with kids that are just like,

yeah, let's meld it together here. No time for, these people don't have time for dating. She works at a nursing home. He's homesteading. They both have kids. What are they going to go to the fucking movies? They't have time you like me great let's get hitched what are we doing let's get this fishing and and weekend and lifestyle together let's go shit yeah let's do it um uh her family didn't know about michelle or any of that either and um uh kim's father jerry

said that um he was unaware that the first wife was murdered at all, even because he says, quote, he told me his first wife died from an overdose. So he lied to make it again understandable. You're going to explain all the suspicious circumstances and evidence and all that shit. So he's on the homestead now, 40 acre homestead, a mile away from his dad's. He's got goats. He's got milk cows. He's got bulls. Yeah, he's doing the homestead now, 40-acre homestead, a mile away from his dad's. He's got goats. He's got milk cows. He's got bulls. Yeah, he's doing the whole thing here.

They would always go to the little store in town to buy supplies. The woman who works there described Haley, the little girl, as a, quote, sweet little girl. And Kimberly was nice but, quote, didn't have a lot to say. Okay, very much so. she's not a lot like him yeah yeah um now they said Barry was always polite but people always wondered about him every place he went that as soon as he walked out the door they were even years later they were still whispering about him like yeah yeah um the the woman from the store said it's in the back of our minds because of the other one yeah the front of our minds because every time you see him you think about

it it's right there yeah it's right there so they're married for a few years they get married in 1998 june 21st 2007 yeah so i mean this is a you know the families are growing together and all that. She now works at the Cloverdale Manor Nursing Home in Scottsboro like we said. This day she went to her job to pick up some papers is what she said and then she was driving home to section

after that. So we know she went to the nursing home, picked up papers then on the way home she spoke on the phone with a friend of hers. Yeah, I just went to work, picked up some papers on my way home now, blah, blah, blah. And then after that, she is never heard from again. Disappears. Gone.

Common denominator. Yeah, this is on a Friday. Friday, June 22nd. 23rd is Saturday. 24th is Sunday. Monday comes. She doesn't show up at work. Right.

And it's not like her to not show up at work. And so, you know, people are asking, where's Kim? Some questions. Yeah. Yeah. After two days, they call the cops. They're like, fuck this. We can't get a hold of her.

She's reliable. This is ridiculous. She would have quit if she was going to quit. She wouldn't just walk away. And if she. We're reporting this. Her husband did too, right? Obviously.

We assume that her husband did too, or maybe she's just ignoring us. Maybe she's at home. Who knows? So she's reported missing, like we said. Her truck is found pretty quickly near the – they live in a log cabin. They're constructing on their homestead here a new log cabin. So they're in the middle of constructing a new house here, a log home, and that's where they find her truck, right by the partially constructed new log house on their property. He didn't find it?

No, the cops found it there. It's down a dirt road about a mile and a half off of Jackson County Highway. So it's like in the back over there somewhere yeah you have to be going to it so again posters of kimberly and hayley are everywhere hayley's an 11 year old girl so i mean she's missing too yeah she's missing too yeah kimberly and hayley both disappear without a trace they don't know where the fuck they are. Gone. So they put up posters everywhere. A lot of people in the area are hoping that they just realized Barry was an asshole and took off and are kind of hiding out

to get away from him. You know what I mean? Just to make sure it dies down. And they said they'll call when they see news stories about them missing. I'm sure they'll call and say, oh, no, we're not dead. We're here.

So the mom said that's what she thought. She said she was proud of her job at the nursing home. She wouldn't have run away. Her mom said she wouldn't have just left her job. She wouldn't have just left her truck. And where'd she go with who? Somebody would have had to pick her up at that point. Now there's a... She's got no car, but she's got a kid with her?

She's got an 11-year-old with her, yeah. So the mom then said, quote, it makes you wonder if he did it the first time. Did he do something with Kim and Haley? Does he know

where Kim and Haley is? I personally am to the point that I just want their bodies back so I can bury them. This is after a couple months that go by. It's just something in me

that feels like I'm never going to see them again. Months? This is like... This is after a couple weeks, she says that. She's like, it's just something in me that feels like i'm never going to see them again this is like this is after a couple weeks she says that she's like it's been a couple weeks her truck's there she would have called me she's dead she their mom is a lot of people will keep the hope alive beyond logic and her mom is saying the logic is she's fucking dead give me the bodies back and i'll get through this. She's expecting the worst. Sure, she's hoping that she has her granddaughter back, but she's a realist. She gets it. Yeah, that's the thing.

And they asked Kim's sister because they said Kim's sister would know how the marriage was going. Would Kim tell you about her marriage? And Kim's sister said, as far as I knew, they were really happy. Kim never said a word to me about them being unhappy or anything like that. There was no sign she was abused. She never told me that. I never saw her with a black eye or a bruise or a scratch. She always seemed happy. Go lucky.

She seemed just like herself as she was before the marriage. She didn't change. So they're like, I don't get it. So the police, of course, talk to Barry, obviously. Barry's story is this. He has a story. He said, listen, fellas. All right, now.

Last time I seen them two ladies, I gave them $20,000. Oh. Which is a lot of money. I gave them $20,000, and they left my house after loading their belongings into a white van with Alabama license plates. He said that from what he heard them discussing, they may have been headed to Montana. Okay. What is happening? Now, Montana, they have zero connections in Montana.

She doesn't know anybody in Montana. She doesn't have like an uncle in Montana. Nobody in Montana. So that would be just as far away from Alabama as you could go. But other than that, makes no sense. And he said, I gave him $20,000 and they loaded all their shit up in a white van.

Also, there's no banking activity for Kim after the day she goes missing. So it's not like then $20,000 was deposited into her account. Nothing like that. So it doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, $20,000, that's not going to take care of you for the rest of your life. No, this is 2007, for Christ's sake. I mean, you can start over with $20,000.

You can get an apartment and, you know, you can start over in a new place. But you better have a job and a bank account set up. Or you're going to be out of money in a couple of months. Yeah, absolutely. So neighbors started to talk, of course, obviously. This is one of the neighbors here, a section woman. She wouldn't give her name. She said, everybody in Macedonia, that's another town there, everybody in Macedonia and section,

I would say 99% to my knowledge is aware of Barry and circumstances that happened in his past with his first wife. And they are all literally terrified of him and what he could do to them. Oh my. So, um, no one will talk about Barry. The cops come up to the mountain to talk.

I got to ask some questions. They'll fucking slam the door in their face. And I ain't fucking saying shit about this guy. They will not talk about Barry. Cause they're like, hey, you all go back down the hill. We're stuck on the mountain with this fucking psychopath. He's going to kill me. Fuck that. He's already killed, according to them, including a child.

Including a child. So this is terrifying. So they start searching. They have to search. They search. It's a hilly property that he lives on here, as described by the newspaper, a reclusive northeast Alabama area. Reclusive, describing land. Right.

Reclusive means you. Area. Land can't pull back from anything. It's always there. Land can't hide, but it's trying. It's trying, boy. Yeah, they said there's a swarm of law officers and searching and searching. They search all day.

A hundred state, federal, and local law officers swarmed all over the property looking for her. Because there's an 11-year-old involved. It's one thing. It's a grown woman. Yeah, that's terrible, obviously. But grown man, grown woman, they disappear. When a child's missing,-year-old involved. It's one thing. It's a grown woman. Yeah, that's terrible, obviously, but grown man, grown woman, they disappear. When a child's missing, we're looking for them, period. So they didn't just take off on their own to go party in Reno for the weekend.

They're 11. Something's up. Also, you can't use the old, she went off to buy meth because there's an 11-year-old. She took her 11-year-old, stopped at her job, picked up some paperwork, and then got a bunch of meth. Parked by a log cabin. Took her 20 grand and blew to Montana, baby. You know how it is. Pocket full of meth, heart full of lust. That's how it works with her.

Pocket full of meth and a heart full of lust. Jesus Christ. So they use cadaver dogs to search as well. It's 40 acres, so there's a lot. They drained a pond looking for her. Full out drained a fucking pond. Said, just get the pumps. We're draining this shit.

Fuck this. I mean, they are looking hard. FBI is involved as well. FBI spokesman said that during that the search which began Thursday was called off on a Friday night and that they still can you know on the property and the investigation

continues and they're still missing. But what they do find on the property are guns. Oh he's a felon who's not allowed to have guns remember that's those little stolen property things that he felon who's not allowed to have guns. Remember those little stolen property things that he had? He's not allowed to have any guns. So on July 12, 2007, they find five firearms during the search of his cabin here.

They find, where is it, three to four long guns in a closet in the residence and another gun on a wall in a smaller house on the property. He had guns around. So now during his hearing for this, because it's federal gun charges now, not just state shit, FBI agents said blood evidence was found in a truck on the Witten property and on a small hatchet on the property. So they said they found some blood in the truck that they found. And they found a small hatchet with some blood. But they couldn't. It was too degraded or something.

They could not match those two things together. It's just that there's both blood on both. So. But he also has a farm with all sorts of shit. Who knows if he's hacking up a goat or something. Who knows. So. They jail him on the weapons charges.

This is pretty fucked up what they do. I don't like what they do here with his son. This is bullshit. His son's 11 years old, Ethan. He's 11, okay? He's not an accomplice. He's 11. So Ethan is at the house when they arrest Barry for the federal charges.

So rather than call a relative up, his father, the Rev, and his mother live a mile up the road. A mile. Rather than call them and go, hey, come pick up your grandson or just drop him off in the front yard as you're leaving, they take him into custody of the Alabama Department of Human Resources. They take the kid because they say they think if the kid's in there for a while, they can get some info out of the kid, they think. So they're essentially holding the kid in jail, too, hoping he'll fucking talk. Wow. He's 11, and his mom's dead, and now his stepmom's gone.

Leave this fucking kid alone, honestly. And his stepsister. This is really bad. If you think about it, if your mom died when you're five yeah and then a year and a half later you get a step mom and that's been your mom since you're six dude that's your mom at that point like but if you if you get him out of that place and into somewhere that he feels safe and comfortable he might divulge something to the grandparents before he divulges it to the fucking police. You know what I mean? He might get somewhere comfortable and then be like,

all right, guys, I got to talk to you. Call Michelle's parents. I bet they'd love to have him. You know what I mean? I'm sure they'd love to have him. So instead they place him there. He lived at the residence as well. They said they sent him to a state home hoping he would eventually tell what happened.

But they said he remained silent for months. They kept him for months months without this and there's no bail he's just held in a this isn't like a crime thing so they can't have a bail hearing or anything a child that's probably been through uh some really horrific shit yeah absolute hell and you made that hell a little bit worse by putting him somewhere unfamiliar he's not gonna tell anybody nearby what the fuck's happening. He's terrified. And he eventually, after months of silence, was allowed to move in with relatives who wouldn't comment on him saying anything to them either.

So he's charged with that. Her mom, again, this is Kim's mom, said, we feel like something bad has happened. She wouldn't have just left us like this. That's that's true. Now, Barry's father, who was driving a tractor on his son's property when media showed up, said they're wasting their time. I'm not commenting about anything. A clerk at the Handy Stop store, which is five miles from his house,

said, I really wish they'd find him. We want it to be over with. Well, no shit. So they have a big vigil, a candlelight prayer service. This is in August now.

This is bleeding into. Candlelight prayer service at the Goose Pond Colony Amphitheater. It's not even at a church. There's free food, singing, and guest speakers. Holy shit. They made a big deal.

Yeah. Go out there and find people. Now, the gun charges, the federal officer said he'll be pleading guilty on the federal weapons charge. There's not a whole lot of defense to that. He had the weapons, and he's a convicted felon, and he's not supposed to have them. So those are the only things of evidence you need to meet for that. Did you have the weapon?

You're in jail. So he pleads guilty to the gun charge. He's also charged with intimidating two witnesses in the in the case, as we'll talk about later on, who happened to be his own parents. Dennis and Lou Vereen Witten, his parents. They said that they they Barry sent his parents a letter threatening them if they released any details about his childhood to investigators. What was his childhood? That's what I mean. We don't know because his parents wouldn't tell.

Yeah. That's crazy. So he's got to be sentenced. Now, in sentencing, they come up with something amazing. They whip out a secret jailhouse recording. Uh-oh. They wired up another inmate and had them sit with Barry and let him talk. Okay?

What did he say? Okay. He talked about, in this recording, ways to skin and mutilate people and their animals. Oh, boy. How to remove hands from arms. Oh, my God. How to smash a skull and teeth and scatter the bits along the interstate. And how to feed body parts to pigs.

Oh, dear God. All things that would, you know, make people be missing and never found. This is Mark Anthony Pride is the guy they had wear a concealed recording device, um, there, he said he talked to him several times. Also on these recordings are, he threatens the lives of several judges, prosecutors, local officials, and of course his mother-in-law because throw her into the mix as well. Wants to kill all these people. So he is going to be sentenced now for the federal gun charges. By the way, the average range for this is usually about 12 to 18 months.

You get for this charge here, but the district judge, Sharon Lovelace Blackburn said, quote, in all of my years on the bench, I have never heard such a defendant's potential for violence, nor have I seen someone who is more of a potential danger to the community.

You, sir, may fuck off absolute maximum 10-year sentence. Wow. Fuck you. In other words, I think you killed both your wives. I'm putting you away. A giant window to lock you up forever.

No shit. So Kim's mom says she hopes having Witten in prison will bring new information to investigators but she's not optimistic she said maybe people will come forward now they don't have to be scared of him because he's in federal prison right he's not even in the state he goes to west virginia for federal prison he's gone he's out of there so she said that um that witten had bragged that everybody on Sand Mountain is afraid of him and he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. He loves it.

He loves it. She also said that since hearing the recording of his jailhouse talk, she said, quote, I have I have been on the puny side, him threatening to skin me. Oh, I have been I have been on the puny side, him threatening to skin me. I told him if he hurts another one of my kids, I have been I have been on the puny side, him threatening to skin me. I told him if he hurts another one of my kids, I'll kill him. OK, so a deputy here, E.J. Brown, who knows he's a Jackson County deputy and also a longtime acquaintance of the Witten family, said, quote, Barry is slick. I wouldn't put nothing past him. That's what he said. He also said that Witten might himself be a target of vigilante justice if he returns to Sand Mountain. Oh, they might fucking.

Which I don't believe. I don't think so because her family's not. They're not from there. So those people don't care enough. But the town itself, they might just be like this guy is. Like Skidmore, Missouri style. Yeah. Skidmore, Missouri style.

Like our Patreon episode. like for the whole town well the cop then went on to say quote somebody will kill him okay so either way it's all right he just shrugged and was like i don't know someone will kill him so the attorneys here um the reaction from them his attorney whitton's attorney said the guilty plea to the firearms charge should have carried a sentencing range from 12 to 18 months. He said the unusually long sentence is due to the disappearances and that's going to be appealed because there's no evidence he's responsible and you can't sentence someone extra. It's kind of like why OJ got banged hard for that thing in Vegas. No one gets that much time for that unless you got away with killing someone first. no one gets that much time for that unless you got away with killing someone first so they said that they hope having witten in federal prison will break the case he said uh with him being

locked up for that length of time we feel like there are witnesses out there who have information who have not come forward there may be they may be a little more comfortable now to come forward and um they said that wink wink wink hey wink. Hey, Ethan, buddy or somebody. I don't think he knows shit, though. They said that they did not uncover any evidence that would be able to prove what happened in the disappearance of Kimberly and her daughter so far. So they said at this point, his 40 acre mountain homestead obscured by the brush in the windy driveway there is is now blocked by trees cut down, laid across the driveway to keep thieves out. Okay.

Like the town's going to come loot his shit now because they know he's in prison. So they'll come take all his shit apparently. So they built a beaver dam out front? They built a, yeah, they just put down trees in front of it, I guess. That's a cheap gate, I suppose. So his dad, Dennis Witten, said he's disturbed by the events that's happened he said it's bothered me more than anything in my life i've told the county and the fbi everything i know to help solve the case and then he wouldn't talk about it anymore she's like i don't fucking know leave me alone yeah i live in the middle of

nowhere for a reason now uh charlie rhodes is the chief prosecutor, and he said that in some sections of Sand Mountain that the areas themselves have a reputation for being so rough that he says, quite frankly, I think law enforcement was intimidated. Okay. In this case, when it first happened in the 90s. Michelle's disappearance and all that. He said, I think the first one they were intimidated. He said about the area in general, we've had a number of cases that arrests were never made from that area. This isn't the only one.

Cops just kind of go up there and they go, I don't know, I poked around, couldn't find anything. And they don't fuck with it because they don't want to deal with these people up there. I want the fuck out. And these people are, you don't fucking deal with them. They lie to you. It's a very insular area that he doesn't want to deal with it. up there. I want the fuck out. And these people are, you know, I fucking deal with them. They lie to you. They, you know, they're, it's a very insular area that he doesn't want to deal with it. It's a pain in the ass.

So 2014, he's still in jail. They're making him do the fucking bid, man. He's not no early shit. Um, he is, uh, um, he's scheduled for release March 27th, 2016. This is release schedule date here. So January of 2015, while he's still in prison, the state charges him with Michelle's murder. Not Kim's because they can't find her. Michelle's murder from the 90s.

They charge him. They said that they're seeking citizens' help in getting more information about the death, but they think they have enough to charge him. help in getting more information about the death, but they think they have enough to charge him. The attorney general, Luther Strange, said he got the indictment on him and they brought him back to Alabama from a federal prison in West Virginia and he's being arraigned. He's accused of murder, obviously, on his wife and he is accused of intentionally killing Michelle Witten by striking her in the head and causing blunt force trauma. That's the official charge.

The defense calls two witnesses with the same story to the stand here. And this is interesting. They both testified they saw Michelle driving in her car on the morning she disappeared. Clara Townsend, who was related to Michelle through her husband, that's her husband's a Townsend and Michelle's a Townsend married aunt. Yeah. She said she was sure it was Michelle that she saw in the car, but she said she can't be 100 percent sure because her hair was different and she hadn't seen her in a little while. her in a little while. Townsend said her and her husband were driving that morning that she heard Michelle had been reported missing later on and said they saw

Michelle driving around 10 a.m. and wearing something pink, which is what she was found in was a pink sweatsuit. So prior testimony obviously got that in there. So this Townsend said she hadn't seen Michelle's car before, but she was able to identify Michelle because she knew her.

And it's a small area. It's not like a big city where you're like, is that so-and-so? Probably not. If you see Michelle, it's Michelle, you know. She said, I never thought about it anymore until we heard she was missing. And I said, I thought we saw her. I thought we had seen her that morning. Right.

I thought we saw her. I thought we had seen her that morning. Right. So that would be a big deal because that would be after the time she was supposedly kidnapped by Barry or whatever. So they said that Michelle was reported missing. And the people, two other people said that they saw her as well. They were it was him and his wife were heading to a funeral that morning when they saw her. God damn it.

God damn it god damn it they said they left around 10 a.m and saw michelle in her maroon car driving this man said he told the court that michelle turned and waved at them and he said he didn't have any question in his mind that that person was michelle whitton and her car and uh the defense asked if he had told officers about that and he replied he told multiple officers what he saw okay it was that day 10 a.m after she should have been gone and when and when barry was seen driving on his own so that that would be very important so the district attorney said that that the two witnesses were just confused about the day probably. That was what the DA said. That was 20 years ago.

Yeah, and most likely saw – but these are statements made from the time though that are brought out now. And most likely saw Michelle on a Saturday and not the Sunday she was gone. They said the clothes that they described her wearing were the same as the one she had on though. So that was the thing that he couldn't explain. describe her wearing were the same as the one she had on though so that was the thing that he couldn't explain now uh the trial comes in and the defense asked can we keep him in alabama for this in the jackson county jail because we need access to him so they said they can't do that though because he was moved originally out of this county into cullman county because of security reasons not that they're scared for his safety they found contraband in his jail cell that sheds the that looks like he was putting an

escape plan together holy shit yeah this is amazing so now bad man now he's also charged with promoting prison contraband as well so we'll get into exactly what he had in a minute here. But at the trial, a forensic chemist for physical evidence took the stand and said 14 fibers were found along a trail leading to Michelle's body. The chemist said two fibers were recovered from the grave site and before a forensic examination was carried out at Witten's home. They said the analysis determined the presence of blood in the master bedroom in an area where the carpet had been cut out. Blood was also found on the floor and on the door frame of the master bathroom. Not good.

Not great. But, again, unless it's a lot, there's a lot of blood in everybody's bathroom. It's just the way it is. And if it's not her blood in all of it, then we got – it's just the way it is and if it's not her blood uh yeah in all of it then we got it doesn't it's not great evidence it's no um so you gotta work a little harder than that um the state calls david young in who said he knew barry whitton in 2007 because he was a cellmate this is a different guy um they served in prison together this This David Young said they talked on a daily basis for seven months, but prior to that, he never knew who Witten was, never heard of him. So Young said that this guy, this cellmate, was convicted on multiple felony charges.

That's how he got there. And he said, quote, this is what Witten told him. I'll just give you all the quotes from him. He, meaning Barry, told me he was a genius. He could get away with anything. That's what he told him. Whitten told him over several conversations about Michelle, saying Whitten described a night he got into an argument with her in their bedroom. Young said Whitten told him Michelle threw something at him, possibly a lamp.

He said Witten told him Michelle threw something at him, possibly a lamp. Witten told Young at the time he came around the bed and beat her, dragged her to the bathroom and beat her some more. And then after she died from the beating, he cleaned up. Good Lord. Okay. He said that this argument took place while they were getting ready for bed around 9 p.m. He said the argument was about Michelle leaving Barry and that Michelle threw a lamp or a phone at him. He told the court that Barry didn't say what type of weapon he used.

Just said he beat her. Young said that Witten told him after he killed her, he cleaned up, wrapped her in a towel, cleaned up the bedroom and bathroom, and took her to a wooded area on a hillside and disposed of her body there. He told the court that Witten said he knew the property owner and knew the property well, so he knew it was a good spot to do it. So the state asks what Witten had said after those conversations, and Young said that Witten told him that cops were investigating two other men for the crime, saying that something was found beside Michelle's car, meaning the wallet. Right.

So, yeah. Then he said, well, he just, again, he told me he was a genius and he can get away with anything. And then described how she was murdered and that it all checks out. Yeah. Yeah. But also, he's saying this happened 10 years ago. Yeah, but also he's saying this happened 10 years ago. In the last 10 years, he could have Googled this guy's name and found out how the murder went down and put his story to match it.

But between this and between the other guy's recording, all of this just looks bad for him. Sure enough. But there's not real smoking gun. Yeah, knocking it out. Yeah, not a lot of smoking gun evidence here on this one. So the state calls witnesses of Michelle's or friends of Michelle's to talk about if she did drugs or not to maybe see if that one works. One of her friends said or all of her friends says she wasn't ever involved with drugs and she's described by multiple people as a good girl. No drugs or anything like that. They said that one friend said she was visibly upset two weeks prior to her disappearance, saying she was scared and wanted to leave her husband, but she didn't know where to go.

So the defense questions any inconsistencies in the statements that the Byram guy gave. Remember Shane with his wallet? Fucking old slippery fingers here. Butterfingers with his wallet. Giant pockets. Yeah, old loose pockets here. They said that it was revealed nothing ever came out of the wallet. They dealt with this

in court. Testimony also revealed that Byram provided the names of four other people who might have taken his wallet. Like, they might be a lead. They could have taken it. And the cop said he interviewed all of them and that they none of them knew the witness. So they didn't know anything about that shit. So the cop finally said he was satisfied that Byram had lost his wallet but didn't know where he lost it.

Happens. That's lost. There's a man, the only man on earth, who needs cargo pants. He needs, yeah. He needs like a button or a zipper or something. Velcro, zipper, anything to keep that pocket shut. Jesus. So now the lawyer, this is the defense lawyers, asked about the duct tape found in his home.

And the investigator said that they took it because there was duct tape found in the hole. And they said, well, did you, was the tapes ever, did they match? And the investigator said he didn't know, which they didn't match. I have the stuff from that. He knew they didn't match, yeah. That's in his notes somewhere, I assume. So they questioned, then turned to whether Atkinson, the investigator, sent the gun, the shotgun, off to the lab,

and Atkinson described, said it could have been. He doesn't remember. Okay. To see if there's any hair or blood or anything on the butt of the shotgun. This is the worst police work. This is not good police. This is the police work you'd expect from a place called Sand Mountain in the fucking tip of the Appalachians.

This is what you'd expect. Who's afraid to go into the holler to do any sort of investigation. Literally tip of the appalachians this is what you'd expect who's afraid to go into the holler to get any sort of investigation literally afraid of the mountain people that mountain people that holler scary up there now um so the defense here defense says that testimony will reveal information about a wallet that was found by the car they're really going to paint this shane bynum as this like oh he's a boogeyman out there this poor bastard yeah well he's dead by now so it doesn't matter really oh he died before 2017 so he's all right he's not hearing shit he's dead too everybody dies up here that was the funeral the one people were going to they're going old shane bynum's funeral byram whatever the fuck his name is

he misplaces everything he misplaced his laugh. The defense, this is amazing. The defense says that the wallet belonged to another man and fingerprints found on the seatbelt also add to this mystery. That's just a cop who's not good at investigating things. It's the goddamn sheriff, you guys. It doesn't add any mystery. But they put that out in the opening statement like, aren't you intrigued? Come back after the commercial break and find out here. So they ended up asking,

was Shane Byram a person of interest beyond clearing him of the wallet? And they said not at all. They asked several other people who were acquaintances with Shane who they said that to see if these people were ever persons of interest. And they said that everybody was followed up on. Nobody was, you know, didn't lead anywhere. So one statement was read from one of those people that Shane said might have taken his wallet, mentioning that that person had found the car, thought about going through its contents, but decided not to and didn't report it. thought about going through its contents but decided not to and didn't report it.

So one of the people he accused of taking his wallet says they were out there by the car, saw the car, thought about rifling its contents, but they didn't and they didn't report it either. They just walked away. That looks bad. That looks fucking terrible. The defense questioned the investigation in that aspect, whether or not the statement was followed up on.

And they said that those people weren't considered suspects ultimately and said he didn't believe the person in question even knew Michelle Witten. It doesn't matter if he knew her. Did he kill her? That's the question. That's the difference. Was he on the side of the road going, I need help? She pulled over and he fucking killed. That's the difference. Was he on the side of the road going, I need help? She pulled over and he fucking killed. That's who knows.

So Barry's lawyers accuse the investigation of singling out Barry as a suspect. Well, you are her husband and had a lot of suspicious shit. And we always look at him first. Always. They said that at one point he did, through the course of the investigation, single out Barry. But that was only after they excluded everybody else. And the defense was saying that you were just focusing on him from the beginning.

So they also talked about some forensic techniques in the homes of the persons of interest as they did. Did you do the same forensics you did? Did you search all their houses with luminol? Did you look over their carpets with fine tooth combs? with luminol did you look over their carpets with fine tooth combs so the defense also when the forensics come up they asked um they asked an expert what you might expect to find in the master bedroom based on the blunt force trauma that michelle received and they said that um they said that what they would do um um uh oh wow okay yeah we said what they would do. Oh, wow. Okay, yeah. We said what they would do is

there would be a lot of blood stains that might be found based on the injury. They said that you can't age a blood stain, so they don't know. She said she would expect to find a large drag pattern in the bedroom. And they talked about the drag pattern. She said she would expect to find

blood spatter on the wall, ceiling, and furniture. Earlier testimony revealed there wasn't any of that found, although he did paint the walls, but there was nothing anywhere else either. The only blood spatter found in the master bedroom was on a light fixture, but they were unable to determine if it was human blood or not. So they don't know if he killed a goat and came in with shit on his hands. They don't know if they don't know if he killed a goat and came in with shit on his hands they don't know they said uh they said you can at times detect blood through paint using a different procedure um the court heard how luminol will give any indication of any cleaning that was done in

the area and this investigator said she didn't notice any areas of cleaning done in the master bedroom through the pictures and reports presented to her in the investigation. So she said she went through everything for about 40 hours and all of this type of shit. The state said that the state asked her if she'd spoken to one of the lead investigators who worked on the case. And she said no, because expert witnesses routinely don't communicate in that manner. And obviously, so that makes sense to not cloud their shit now barry's mom said they got her on the stand and she said no barry would sit with a police scanner listening loudly at his at his home a few days after michelle was listening

was went missing and he told her he was keeping up with where the police were on the scanners now that could also be are they suspicious of me right i'm keeping a monitor on the cops or it could be i'm worried and i want to know so they said that um mrs whitton this is going to hurt him bad his own mom did this whenever the proceedings at a courthouse would take place about the murder back then they'd have any kind of hearings, he would tell his mom, quote, I got by again, which sounds bad. But they said as to the nature of the proceedings that she couldn't remember. So any other issues, he had legal issues. The state asked about the carpet in the master bedroom, barry's mom said that it was cut out neatly after michelle was reported missing um they said that uh asked her to point out her son in the courtroom this is

weird mrs witton pointed to an area in the public seating and said he was there where her family was sitting no he's okay the state asked her to look look around again and point out her son. Mrs. Witten said if he's in the courtroom, she doesn't know him anymore because he looks so different. The way he looks at trial and the way he looked before, you literally can't recognize the man. Is that right? Oh, he's been in prison for 10 years. Yeah. Well, before he had this big beard and all this shit. Now he's clean shaven.

He's got like slick back hair, completely different looking guy. It doesn't look like they're from the same planet. These two guys. So, uh, she says he doesn't look like he doesn't look like her son to her. He went done, went and shaved clean and combed his hair.

No, he looks all clean. No shit on his clothes. That's a sign right there. Yeah. At that Barry showed emotion for the first time and kind of looked sad so the defense asked her if michelle had a temper and barry said that they both had a bad temper or not barry barry's mom said yeah both of them had a bad temper uh barry had a temper

michelle had a temper and she said i have a temper too god damn it we all do and uh they said well did barry and mich Michelle not get along? And she said, I don't know anything about that. I don't live with them. So the defense turned to the topic of the holes in the carpet again. And Barry's mom said that Michelle told her about a little prick of the carpet that was must up, as she put it. A little prick that was must up. What a wild way to say it. It's stained. Little prick that was must up, saying that Ethan, the couple's son, had pricked it up.

What does that mean? Cut it or messed it up? Pricked it, messed it? Did he pull a bunch of the shit out? Must it all up, Jimmy. He used a comb on the carpet. He must it. Must it good.

So the defense then asked barry's mom about the scanner barry was listening to after michelle went missing asking barry's mom if barry was listening for any news of michelle and mrs whitton here said that he was listening for any news on law enforcement and what was going on which is what you would do if you were a murderer worried about shit or a worried husband one one of the two, that's a problem. So the state, uh, asked Mrs. Whitten again, if she'd seen her son, Barry in the courtroom, they get her back and they go, let's go back to, if you see Barry in the courtroom to which Mrs. Whitten replied, she did see him and she described him.

She identified him as the man sitting by defense, by the defense lawyers. So that's the guy she admitted it finally so this goes to the to the jury for deliberation how long would this take to deliberate i mean you'd have to still if i'm there it's still going it's still going well they get it over within two hours so i don't know if they saw a different trial than I just described to you. Two hours? Two hours. In a murder trial, that's the paperwork, man. They get in there.

How are we doing? Should we take a vote? Sure. Well, would you look at that? Guilty. All right, let's fill out the shit. That's how long that is. Wow.

In a jury room, getting 12 people together. So, wow. At the sentencing hearing, a letter from Michelle's mother comes in and was read into the court record. And she says, I never imagined Michelle would grow up to be murdered. Michelle was a decent person. She loved her family very much. I give God the glory that her body was found. There's no greater crime than to take the life of another. There will be no closure. There is no closure, but at least there's justice.

At the sentencing hearing, he's guilty. They got him guilty. Yeah, guilty. Guilty. Two hours, bro. That's what I mean. Guilty. Found guilty.

Yeah. What are you kidding me? What do you think? That they were going to find him innocent in two hours? Did you miss a page where they had the shotgun with blood all over it or something? No, nothing. I told you all the physical evidence, none of it matches up. It's all...

Oh, my God. It's all a lot of circumstantial, but none of it... Nobody even saw him coming out of the woods. There's no way to connect them other than very vague things. They, as the people of that town, hate that man. Hate him, yes. So the judge comes in, and there's a lot of sentencing leeway here. The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison.

Holy shit. And $30,000 in fines and victim compensation as well. So they're going to sell a shit in 2016. Yep. In 2016. Now, also, he's charged with promoting prison contraband, don't forget, amid allegations for the potential for escape in Jackson County. Those items included pencil shavings and pencil graphite, which could be used to start a fire. Handbooks of when you're allowed to use deadly force. It's like when someone's doing this, when someone's doing that, if someone's trying to set the prison on fire.

That's one of the things you can kill somebody for because they could die. You could kill a lot of people doing that. So they take that seriously in prison. He was also found to have hard plastic pieces sharpened into stabbing tools. That's handy. And a 42-inch length of rope taken from a laundry bag. Huh. So he could have done a lot with those things. I don't know if they were escaping so much as if it was I can choke people with this, stab people with this.

I can start a fire. Yeah. It can build a cross. Yeah. Who knows? So of the reaction here of this whole thing, so life in prison, the attorney general said, I hope that this conviction will potentially lead to more evidence that may lead us to solve the other crimes that Mr. Witten may have been involved in. And I'm hoping now that he's been put away that

others may come forward with information that they know. He said, this is an extraordinary case. It's the oldest case our office has handled that has resulted in a conviction. This type of case is the perfect example of the difficulty and the hard work that goes into solving a cold case, a case that so many people thought might not ever be solved. They had no more information or evidence 10 years later than they did when it happened. It wasn't like they were like, oh, then a smoking gun. No, it was 17 years later. It was the exact same amount of evidence they had. They didn't have like new DNA techniques. Make it so we can get none of that shit.

Nothing. So Ethan at this point, by the way, after that is by then is 19 years old in the Air Force. Is that right? In 2020. By then he was in the Air Force. Yeah. He did not attend the trial or sentencing. He's got to be upset.

I would imagine the poor guy. And I hope he's got to be upset i would imagine the poor guy and uh i hope he's being left alone now 2017 michelle uh he has an appeal for this murder conviction and they affirm his conviction he filed an application for a rehearing asking the court of appeals to reconsider its decision and they said go fuck yourself hell no Hell no. Life in prison, eat dicks. Wow. So, Kimberly and Haley are still missing today. They've never been found.

Well, I mean, he's given you a lot of information about where you'll never find them. He's talking about skinning. He's talking about breaking skulls and feeding things to pigs, but they're still missing. Wow. If anybody, I know nobody does, but you never know. Any information, you contact the Alabama Attorney General's Cold Case Hotline, 866-419-1236, or email them at coldcasetips at alabamaag.gov. Promptly do nothing with it.

Nothing at all. Yeah, what are they going to do with that but a little description the the daughter i mean she was 11 at the time so she would be you know she'd be 25 she'd look nothing like she was then they did age progression but who knows kimberly i mean her pictures you would probably be able to tell she's a large a larger woman she's five foot nine 270 pounds so she's a big woman um and have a daughter who used to be 11 that's basically what to look for other than that i don't know hey that daughter was she 11 once yeah okay well other than that i got nothing for it but that holy fuck man is

section alabama and uh one hell of a crazy case they They don't have. He is absolutely should not have been convicted of that as much as I think he killed both the wives and want him in prison. Yeah. Yeah. Want him in prison. But I'm talking about just from a individual. Yeah. Court case. Narrow view.

There's no fucking way on earth that guy should have been convicted of this. Right. Terrible evidence. Terrible evidence. They got no new evidence. They were like, let's just do it anyway. Let's give it a shot. It's 10 years later. It's less fresh in people's minds. I'm sure people

will be great witnesses. It's going to be fantastic. Wow. That's crazy, man. Mom didn't even recognize the guy. Yeah, to the point where his own mother didn't recognize him. That's how long ago it was. There you go. That is Section Alabama. Hope you enjoyed that. If you did enjoy it, tell the world about it.

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nazis on drugs what was the leadership of germany on we have books with lots of records of the doctors and uh also the records of like hitler gearing gearing all these guys what the fuck were they taking to make their brains go, this is working. No, no, it's working. I'm telling you, we're going to be fine here. It's crazy. And when you hear about when things happened

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mispronounce your name terribly while i giggle in the background we'll flip the roles here for this let's get it on everybody hit me with those names jimmy right fucking now this week's executive producer robin higher keep going robin she didn didn't explain what she's dealing with, but hang in there. It's terrific to have you. You got this. Italian grandma Marilyn Branfast, James. That's the new one. Very nice.

Very nice. Simon Frost and Mary Lou Valeron? Valeron. Valeron? Valeron. That may be a misspelling. Mary Lou, thank you. Thank you.

Other producers this week are Ginger Lee and her friends, Sheila Torres, Darcy. No, that's not Sheila. It's Suhila. It auto-corrected to Sheila. So your name is now Sheila Torres. There you go, Sheila. Enjoy. Enjoy your new name.

Jennifer Standifer, Ann Lund, thinking of you, Peyton Meadows, Maria Koop-Suesley, Corporal Carl Kirshner, Jennifer Bojuis, Janice Hill, Maria Victoria Munoz, Brandi Huntley, Michaela Rotert, happy birthday, DeLuca. I don't know. First name. That may be the first name. Happy birthday. Fuck it.

Joy Nix, J-O-Y-N-I-X. That is a first and a last name. Wow. Done in six letters. That's impressive. Not even half of my last name. That's it. Half of my last name.

Zach McDermid. Jennifer Falconer. Carl. Oh, boy. Fainaut? Fainant. Fainante. It's got to be a silent G. Brandonon with no last name alex alicia alicia

cox carolina simmons troy matts sabrina durham will with no last name dan morgan and oh andy foster i think beth with no last name tyler haley yep victor flores matthew rhodes melissa Yep, Victor Flores, Matthew Rhodes, Melissa Saldana, Jade Veiger, I think. Oh, boy. Julia Hote, Hot Hat, Hoggedud. Hot. One of those. Nacho with no last name. Jude Kendall, Heather Duke, Amanda Gross, Gross maybe.

Jennifer with no last name. Jared Kingston, Stephen DeForest, Rachel Sexsmith, Katie. Nope, that's just Kate Ostrovsky. Justin with no last name. Lorianne Lala, Wes Clark with no. Wait, that's just Kate Ostrovsky. Justin with no last name. Laurie Ann Lala. Wes Clark with no, wait, that is a last name. Sarah Hill. Carrie McCown.

Ryan with no last name. Rachel Crow. Nick with no last name. Nicholas Murphy. Kayla Scruggs. Davin, Davin, Davin, Davin, Davin. Davin Lezelyung. Jesus.

Brett Persing. Flora Reichenstatter. Reichenatter? Reichenator. Matthew Leary. Angela Hirsch. David Cherino. Cherino. Kelly Bard. Natalie Graber. Christina Lepinsaskis. Lepinskis. Lepinks. Olivia Green. Erica Graham. Melinda Benson, Matt Adams, Jimmy with no last name, Nathaniel Lowe, Mike Tease, Kim Smiley, Eyes of Mary, Marion with no last name, Steve with no last name, Endelian Hopkintino.

Nope, that's Endelian Hopkinton. I thought you were on that one. Hopkintino? You made him Italian. Good job. Ina Gerge. Gerge. Gerge. Christopher Begay.

Charlie Brown. Logan Anderson. Charlotte. Charlotte Scott. Megan Troy. Carissa. Sarissa. Carissa.

Vincent. Jen's. Okay. Jen, maybe. C-H-R is an abbreviation for something. Krauss with no last. That's a last name. Jeez.

What is happening? Good Lord. Jessica Detlefson. Like Detlef Schrempf, James? Her last name is Detlefson. Awesome. Allison Knudson. Amy Curino.

Curino. Quinoa. Diamond Clark. Kelly Vicola. Nikki Meyer, Vinnie Peluso, Lindsay Peoples, Milsurp, and Loder. What? Christopher the Russian, Rushing, Krista Reimert, I think, Wendy Warner, Alyssa Heister, Mary Tanner, Dane Livesey, Don Lingbeck, Tanya Carley. I don't know anymore. Jared Hayes, Sierra Moore, Trent Carpenter. Oh, boy.

Kaylin, Centillo, Kentian. Are those the same attempt at the same spelling of words? Exact same tribe. Okay. Reese Humphreys, Samuel Smothers, Tanisha Barlow, Maria with no last name, Nicole with no last name, Tony Q, Ellen Fowler, Nicole Jackson, Brendan Wilsey, Cary Ann, Ricky with no last name, Carrie Ann. Carrie Ann. Ricky, with no last name.

Ricky Crawford. Tony Green. Cassandra Bartz, I think. Mage. McLeod. McLeod. All right. Andrea, with no last name.

Michelle Hubbard. Jennifer Middlestat. Jason McGee. Dan Dietz. David Jordan. Corvus Jenko. His wife loves my laugh, evidently. Who does? It's a raspy one.

Jimmy Mac 03. Kimberly Devaglia. Devaglia. Jimmy Mac 03. Kimberly Devaglia. Devaglia. Amanda Farmer. Chris Moffitt. Sat on a toffet. Sterling Blakely. Nick Stevens.

Alexander Osborne. Nora Harrington. Steve Koenig. Koenig? Koenig. I think it's Koenig. Kerry Jernigan. Jernigan.

Taylor Wilson. Dale Langston. Mr. Trevor. And Oji Pogi, Trish Ferrys, Eric with no last name, Tiffany with no last name, Alika, that's not Alika, that's Alicia, right? There's not an I there, it's just Alika. No last name. It's Alika. J.C. Robertson II, Destry and McKenzie's mom, J.-F-4-1-2, Misty Monroe, Marky B., Terry Rogers, Sam Elzabi, Katie with no last name, Brandy Martin, Annika with no last name, Donna Davis, Tarnia, Tarnia, Tarnia, is that right?

Woolno, Woolnoff, maybe. Lisa with no last name, Jay Jeanette, Nancy Pugliese. Pugliese. What is that, James? That's Italian, right? Pugliese? P-U-G-L-I-E-S-E. Is that Pugliese?

Pugliese. Keep trying, Jimmy, because this is the best thing ever. Pugliese. It's probably, yeah, Pugliese. Pugliese. It's probably, yeah, Puglisi, yeah. Puglisi. It sounds gross. Paul Evenden, Christine Krewer, Susan Cotton, Billy Martins, Aiden Tron. I love it so much. Valerie C. and all of our patrons, we do love it so much.

Thank you, everybody, so much for what you do for us we're honestly blown away by it and we we can't tell you how much we appreciate it thank you for being there we hope you love the bonus material we're gonna keep it coming hot and heavy like always if you want to follow us on social media there's links on shut up and give me murder.com to everything all social media for the show, for us, for all that shit. Follow us. Keep coming back.

Get all the latest updates and listen to the damn show all the time. Check Crime and Sports back out again. Express on Fridays. Keep doing that. And until next week,

everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.