Small Town Murder - #354 - Need Any Ostriches? - Sequim, Washington

Episode Date: January 21, 2023

This week, in Sequim, Washington, a wild scene unfolds with the backdrop of drug dealing, boat sinking, karate weapons, and many ostriches & emus running around. One day, the man at the center of all this strangeness calls 911 at 4am, claiming that his friend/business partner has just killed himself, after killing the first man's wife. Evidence doesn't quite back that up, with out of place blood spatter, and even more out of place gravel. The whole thing gets really crazy at trial, when this man fights to represent himself to fight the death penalty!!Along the way, we find out that apparently lavender warrants an entire weekend of celebration, that it's very hard to knock yourself out, then shoot yourself, and that ostriches probably can't plan a murder!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo!

Ah, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station, punching the tickets, doing it up.

Let's get this. Open the windows. It's cold in here. It is. We have a wild one today, so we will get to that very quickly. Top of the show, before we do that, Shut up and give me murder dot com right now. New shows added. There is a Thursday show in Seattle. We had a Friday show. Now there's a Thursday and a Friday show. And in Portland the very next night, that Saturday, we have two shows that evening. We've added a late show. So get in there right now. Also, Cleveland is our very first one.

Kicking it off. Get your tickets to that. February 10th. We cannot wait. Tickets are going fast. They really are. They really are. Pittsburgh and Detroit, same thing.

So shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Oh, my goodness. Get all your bonus stuff. Anybody $5 or above. The cost of about, what, like eight eggs my goodness. Get all your bonus stuff. Anybody. Five dollars or above the cost of about what? Like eight eggs right now. So not much at all. Get in there. You're going to get the whole back catalog.

One hundred fifty plus episodes of bonus stuff to binge. And every other week you're going to get two new episodes. One crime and sports. One small town murder. This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports. We're going to talk about the history of fantasy sports. How started how it went from a smoky back room to the main cause of divorce in america we'll find out how that happened there and then for small town murder we are going to talk about kai the hitch the hatchet wielding hitchhiker i can't wait who is a crazy guy who attacked a man with a with a

hatchet in in the middle of the street and but like in a heroic way and then it was became a national hero sort of a weird guy and then uh like three weeks later he did something not so heroic at all we'll talk about that it's wild so that is patreon.com slash crime and sports get in there definitely and do that that said i think it's time let's get right into the show here jimmy what do you say i think it's time to sit back yeah i'm gonna clear the lungs out a little bit it's time to clear the lungs i don't care where you are i don't care even if you're home walk outside and right in your front lawn or if you're in an apartment off your balcony or something and shout to the masses shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy okay let's go on a trip yeah let's go you sound a little a little worried about where we're going don't worry it's not Section Alabama again.

Very quickly. I'm so nervous. Those people are nuts. They really are. We tapped into a real vein with that Section Alabama episode where hundreds of people who don't listen to the show at all have decided that they really hate us for talking about their area and how... I don't it man it's it's it's a place where the rest of alabama looks down on i don't know what else to say about it besides that you can you make your own judgment based upon that so the cops are afraid to go to this place okay to investigate things and they're like don't talk about our town are you out of your mind

fix it fix it how about that somebody said there's literally a dominoes three minutes away They're like, don't talk about our town. Are you out of your mind? Fix it. Fix it. How about that? Somebody said there's literally a Domino's three minutes away. Three minutes. That won't deliver to them. Why? Because you live in a terrifying place. That's why.

They're scared of you. That says something. So we're going to go somewhere different this week. We're going to go to the northwest here. We're getting out of the south there.'re going to we're going to squim washington squim squim now it's spelled s-e-q-u-i-m so it looks like sakim or squim but if you ever watch 90 day fiance anybody out there you know that it's actually squim because one of the guys was from there and he was on multiple seasons as Big Mike. And he was with the Ukrainian woman, Natalie, that Sarah does a great impression of. Natalie.

She does a great impression of her in her accent. But anyway, this family guy did a parody and they 100% did this where Stewie gets a woman from the Ukraine. It's 100 percent this woman like it looks like an animated version of her. It's hilarious. So this is probably a native word, right? Squim, I would assume so. Yeah, that's not a word. Yeah, it's not like, yeah, they didn't get it from England.

Probably I wouldn't think so. Squim, Washington. It's a small it's very rural like where this guy lives it is far like it's like a mile to the next house it's really far so this is a kind of a spread out area uh population 7 780 in the whole area it's northwest of seattle so that tells you a lot it's up there in that little like how hook region in the uh fuck do you do that little washington panhandle there's a little there's that little hook region. How the fuck do you do that? Little Washington panhandle. There's a little piece of Washington that looks like it's sneaking up behind Seattle.

It's going to attack it from behind. That's Squim up there. Yeah, that's what we're doing. Median household income here, $38,739, so a little lower than the national average, but it's less expensive out here too, except for the home prices because there's a lot of land. So a lot of these are acres. So median home price out here, $450,700. Oh, boy.

So pricey, a little bit pricey. A little bit of history up here. They first brought – it's weird because it's by the water and it's up there, but apparently there's not a lot of water up there. They had to irrigate this area to make it farmlands back in the day in like the 1890s uh it was fresh water you mean yeah yeah for fresh obviously yeah you can't just get the ocean water for your crops yeah that's not gonna help that's not gonna help that's what makes it even weirder it's like i see water but we can't grow shit this is wrong we're all thirsty this is we're so thirsty it was uh incorporated in 1913 and was for a long long time just small farms mainly dairy farms yeah little tiny town little dairy farms around it

very quiet um type of place uh near the end of like after world war one it became a stop for the railroad that passed through here that would – basically the railroad would carry wood products from the forests back and forth. And it became a stop there. And really that's kind of what it is. It's not – it's a lot of little farms and spread out areas. And it's very rural. It seems like a quaint little place. Like when they go to town in 90 Day Fiance, everybody seems nice and shit like that.

I mean, it's Washington. So that area of the country is nice up there. It's crazy quiet and it rains like fucking constantly. But yeah, you the raindrops are are so serene because in most places when it rains like the rain is annoying and obnoxiously loud. And in the woods like that, the rain like that is so fucking nice it's soothing it's very soothing yeah it's a very very comfortable place to be uh people robbie knievel's from here who just died like yesterday today today today yeah this morning now as we record as we record he is cooling right now robbie knievel so that was yeah i was like oh all right well there

he is um he's from here he's from here a couple of things here here's some reviews of this town and once again to say these reviews are not our reviews we've never been to these places this is not our reviews these are other people's that we are reading to you so you can't be mad at us for these what other people say. Okay, five stars. Squim is a breath of fresh air. Two years ago, I moved away from the smog, grime, and crime of Southern California, and I was mesmerized by the clean beauty of Squim. Crime was replaced by friendly people who are always willing and ready to help their neighbor. Oh, my.

The smog and grime of the big city was wiped away with countless gorgeous green evergreens. Well, yeah, of course they're green. They're evergreens. You didn't need to put that in there. That's a little redundant. The best part of living here is the excitement in the air. There's always a mountain to climb, somewhere new to explore. It's a dreamer's paradise.

They really like that. Holy Jesus Christ. Here's three stars not not so enthusiastic great if you are old and love lavender slash church lavender we'll get to the lavender here when we get those things to do not much for young people in the community yeah lavender and church don't really sound like you're if you're 15 what you're really raging to do. I absolutely love the area surrounded by mountains, woods, and close to the ocean. It's beautiful, but I hate the people.

Oh, and the people. I mean, hate the people. Two stars. Job market is very bad. Well, there's 7,000 people there, so I don't know what you're looking for. Housing is very high and climbing. That's just how it is, yeah. Rent looking for? Housing is very high in climbing. That's, that's just how it is.

Yeah. Rentals are very high and controlled by rental agencies. New home building permits are extremely high. There are a few annual festivals, but nightlife is zero unless you like casino life, unless you're old or like lavender. Um, the town basically closes up by 7 PM with the exception of a couple of big chain markets.

It's primarily a retirement town. Those still working good jobs must travel to Seattle area. This guy had to drive like three hours to work every day from 90 Day Fiance. Two and a half each way, I think it was. He drove. I was like, oh, God. It's a 12-hour day. Yeah, that's brutal.

Three-hour day. It's brutal. One star. here we go the people who have moved here have ruined our small farm town ruined uh being being a second generation farmer i am able to sustain my parents legacy and cannot feed our community oh unable to sustain my parents legacy and cannot feed our community like i should be able to how is that new people's too many people i don't know how anybody moving in would cause your farm to not do as well like i don't know i don't know the economics of the of agriculture that much but it seems like

that wouldn't affect your farm much unable to get the products they need are they farming too and they're taking up all the shit? Maybe, but that's just, I mean, that's competition. What does that mean? That's competition, baby. Yeah, that's just capitalism. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry about it.

Things to do here very quickly because there's not much. Lavender. You do lavender. The Squim Lavender Weekend is their big thing. It's a whole weekend. Yes.

Looking at lavender, dressing in lavender. What is it? Squim's well known for its beautiful and fragrant lavender farms. For more than two decades, visitors have come from all over the world to celebrate this soothing purple herb. You just go there. When was the last time you bought lavender? I don't know.

Last time I thought of lavender at all. Who thinks of lavender? I don't know. Some people love lavender. I have no idea. But I don't know i may some people love lavender i have no idea but i i i don't know i'm very confused i'm very confused i imagine your market's shrinking you're not you're not really advertising much getting it out there but now they do like oils and shit with lavender i know that they have like and shit like that so i think they're trying to reconstitute it but that's it lavender there's more than a dozen lavender farms open during lavender weekend.

And all the farms, it tells you where they are. And all of them say you can go pick lavender and buy lavender and buy crafts and food based on lavender. So that sounds wonderful. That said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Because what the fuck is happening with this lavender, dude? We're going to get people saying I love lavender. I'm sure you do. We just didn't realize that lavender warranted a weekend.

Not even a festival. It's a whole weekend. Yeah. What do you do? I lavender. You're a Harley guy. Yeah. I didn't know lavender was a verb.

I wasn't aware of that. I'm a lavender guy. Yeah. I didn't know it was a verb. I just't aware of that. I'm a lavender guy. Yeah. I didn't know it was a verb. I just didn't know you could just lavender as a thing. What are you doing today? Going lavender-ing. Oh, okay.

I'm going to go lavender-ing. That's weird. I'm just going to lavender a bit. So for this murder, let's go back to 1953, shall we? Oh, boy. Or 1993, not 1953. The guy I'm going to talk about was born in 1953 is the point of why I said that because that's the next numbers down. So 1993 is our time period.

Swim Washington, dairy farms, and not only dairy farms, farms of a different type as we'll talk about here. What a character we have for this guy. All right. Daryld, D-A-R-O-L-D, Ray Stenson is his name. Daryld Ray Stenson. He's born in 1953. And what does everybody call him, Jimmy? Dary?

DJ. Oh, yeah, of course. He doesn't have a j in his name all three words have no j's in them i don't know if he's daryl jr and so he's d i don't know what it is but he's dj somehow okay now that can also be explained by the fact that he has one two three aliases as well so maybe that's part of it as well uh Yeah. He is Daryl Ray Stenson, a.k.a. Daryl R.J. Stenson, a.k.a. James Allen Anderson, a.k.a. Larry Joe Prisbison.

Prisbison and also Arnold. Or Anderson? Anderson. Anderson. Here's the Prisbison. I don't know how you say it. P-R-Z-Y-B-Y-C-I-E-N. Nope.

That's not it. I don't know how you say that, but that's one of his aliases. Larry Joe. Hey, Larry Joe. Larry Joe Presbyski. That's the one. How you doing, Larry Joe Presbyski? So, Daryl has some names.

So, we're just going to stick with DJ over here. Are those, you got to tell me right now, are those, did he pick those for like running from the law? He uses those? Well, I'm going to tell you all about that right now. Tell me. That's not next. You think I wouldn't try to explain why he goes by Larry Joe Presbeluski sometimes? Let's find out.

Big Wire fan. Well, yeah, he's a huge Wire fan. Prior to all of this, he has convictions in 1971, which is when he's 18. So we don't know what his juvenile record contains. That's just his adult record starts right at 18 with a felony conviction of possession of LSD in King County, which it's 1971. I mean, I don't know if he's selling it or what, but I don't know. Who cares? Honestly, it seems like there's probably a lot of people up and down the Pacific. Yeah.

LSD on them. I don't think he's the only guy with fucking acid in their pocket in 1971 in the area is what I'm getting at. So that's fine. 1974 gets a bit more serious with a federal felony conviction for distribution of cocaine. Federal. Oh, boy. In 74. That's a lot of serious with a federal felony conviction for distribution of cocaine. Federal. Oh, boy. In 74. That's a lot of coke you probably had.

Do you know how few people were selling coke in 1974? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. In 1970. For the last. Yeah. You could get coke in New York City. If you're in an upper crust thing, you probably get it in Beverly Hills.

I'm sure San Francisco had their little bit. In New York City, if you're in an upper crust thing, you probably get it in Beverly Hills. I'm sure San Francisco had their little bit. People had Coke here and there, but Coke wasn't like it is and became in the 80s and late 70s. 74, Coke was still pretty expensive and rare at that point, especially in rural Washington. So he's convicted of that. Then in 1985, he is convicted of two federal misdemeanors as well. These are failure to file an income tax return and possession of cocaine. Okay.

So it's still hanging on to the coke. I don't know if you're sensing a pattern here. So you have a coke dealer who has many four different names. And at this moment in time, he has a five-acre farm that he's kind of doing a rent-to-buy situation where he pays the mortgage payments, basically, of his landlord. Take over payments. Yeah. He owns Dakota Farms. It's a five-acre operation. And if I gave you 100 guesses of what they deal with, you'd never guess it.

It's not lavender. You don't think so? I mean, maybe. It's not lavender. You don't think so? I mean, maybe. It's not lavender. So I'll start with that. That's guess one out of the way. Is he growing coca leaves? No, he has ostriches, emus, reas.

What are those birds that look like ostriches but smaller? He's just doing exotic birds? And other exotic birds. Yeah, big, giant exotic birds is what he's doing. Wow. And Dakota Farms does exotic birds. Does exotic birds. Does it sound, I guess, bison?

That's what I mean. It sounds like that, right? Nope. Exotic birds. So you have a Coke dealer with giant birds walking around, which sounds so fucking hilarious to me. It sounds like the guy in Boogie Nights with motor in play and while he's like shooting his gun off and firecrackers in the living room in his bathrobe.

None of this goes together. None of this goes together. It's all very kooky. You know what I mean? It's all, I've done a lot of- It's very drug behavior. It sure is. You ever seen Emu?

I need an Emu. Let's get Emus. You want to buy Emus? I bought some Emus. They're coming next week. Okay, now we own an Emu farm. Hey, honey, I bought an Emu farm. What? Emus. You know what the fuck they I bought some emus. They're coming next week. Okay, now we own an emu farm. Hey, honey, I bought an emu farm. What?

Emus. You know what the fuck they are? Ostriches. Like ostriches. I bought ostriches, too. Okay, good. Let's do this. Like, that's...

Getting peacocks next week. Getting peacocks. It's going to be great. What are we going to do? We're going to sell them. We're going to sell them. If we can't sell them, we'll eat them. We'll eat them if we can't sell them.

They're delicious. Low fat. Low fat. Very low fat. Very lean meat. Lean meat. Lean meat. Lean meat.

Lean meat. We'll have tacos. We'll have tacos. Tuesday tacos. Taco Tuesday. Lean meat, lean meat. We have tacos. We have tacos. Tuesday tacos. Taco Tuesday. We're having them every Tuesday now. Every Tuesday we have ostrich tacos. Ostrich tacos.

If we don't have any ostriches left, we'll have emus. What do you think? You know anybody who wants to buy an emu? Hey, have you asked your friends if they want to buy emus? He's fucking nuts, I think, is the thing. You ever have a peacock taco?

Peacocko? Peacocko? Ever have a peacocko? Peacock taco? Peacock taco? Peacock taco? Ever have a Peacock taco? Peacock tacos are awesome. Me and my wife have Peacock tacos every Tuesday. We have Peacock taco Tuesday. It's really good. You're going to love it. Come on over. Peacock tacos.

Peacock taco Tuesdays. Peacock taco Tuesdays. Peacock taco Tuesdays. Peacock taco Tuesdays. This is a ridiculous situation i can't understand what his his brain is doing it's on a lot of coke put it that way and we'll find out that it's still on some coke it's definitely he doesn't leave the coke behind no he's been doing coke a long time and dealing in coke a long time and he's going to continue time, and he's going to continue to do that. He's currently under a blanket investigation also.

Today? As this is going on in 1993, his landlord, who was selling him the house later on, you'll find out that the landlord is told by an investigator, cop friend of his, that, hey hey your guy that you're selling to just so you know we're having a big giant county-wide investigation of his drug dealing so we got some dossiers on your boy yeah if you might want to deal with whatever with the property and all that you know what i mean so now uh dj here is married as well of course he is um he's finds a woman here uh they've been together about seven, eight years. And her name is Denise Ann Stenson. She's 29 in 1993.

So she's born in 64. So a little younger than him. They have three children as well. Three children, six, four, and one. Just started this fam. Yeah. And they had the first two before they got married where they were living together and everything. Then they got married and had another one here.

So their residence is on Dakota Farms and there's imagine all the birds walking around. So that's the setting that we have going on. Coke head, ostriches, children. I don't even know. So this guy's past too. He once owned Port Washington Properties, which built condos. They built a condo marina deal, like a marina with condos and shit in Bremerton in the mid 80s, but ran into legal trouble, you know, because he's financing it with coke money, probably, allegedly. He owes part of a $1.7 million judgment stemming from the dispute over missing assets of the marina.

So, OK, so he's he's looting the business. It's there's a lot of yeah, he's got all sorts of shady shit going on. He was placed on probation when he was convicted for the cocaine and income taxes in the eighties, he's placed on probation and, uh, was placed on inactive status as a, as of 1987. So he was, they let him off and he decided at that point to put all this craziness behind

him and sail to the Philippines on a boat that he purchased called the dragon. Where, where, where w-e-y-r where what wire the dragon we're the dragon we're we'll say okay so he purchased that boat um i'm sailing to the philippines i've done it it's over uh that boat july 11th 1989 sank so it didn't go very far yeah he collected two feels very it feels very insurance he collected two hundred thousand dollars from lloyds of london for the boat he insured it really well through the really through a really fucking you know high up top tier type of deal and another 150000 on another policy covering the equipment. So he pulled $350,000 out of that.

So this is the guy we're dealing with, with a bunch of ostriches walking around, nostrils bright red with coke in his mustache. That's who you got to picture. He's a party, man. This guy's a party. He's got kind of a business partner here, a guy named frank horner horner i guess you'd say it's h-o-e-r-n-e-r so horner with a horner yeah he's born in 1960 so you know he's in the age range here he also has a wife named named denise to make this confusing okay so they're both married to denise's um jesus now tells me that's how they met

yeah but your wife's name is denise too holy shit you want some coke all right see if denise wants to do a couple of lines with us bring your denise i'll bring my great time ever ask her she wants to pet an ostrich it's a weird sensation maybe she wants to pet an ostrich so what do you think You think she'll be up for a picaco? They're pretty good. So he lays carpet, this guy, is like his main job. And he's, I guess, been trying to get into this business. For your bird business?

DJ has been talking Frank into investing into the exotic bird business there's several people who've been putting some money into this business for some reason i don't know why that's a what a great business opportunity i don't know what the market is for ostriches and emus and shit it might be huge i could be missing a huge market that i have no idea about but it feels like there's a lot of paperwork involved with that that you got to report where you got it from like you know i mean like the the paper trail of where this bird originated feels like it's probably important to people that and he gets them from texas they're all from texas but he i would imagine in addition to that like it's an okay all right let's start from the beginning with the ostriches here i don't jesus let me say this too bird shit on your car is impossible to get off sometimes that is a much

bigger bird it's got a shit so much bigger yeah not on your car bird has most of the time yeah that's true too yeah there's got to be a lot of care involved there's got to be a lot of shit like that but this sounds like the type of business that you'd like. You answered an ad in a magazine. Like start your own ostrich farm. That's what it sounds like to me. The sea monkeys. Yeah.

That's what I mean. I was trying to put it really put it into words. That's the most succinct way I can put it. It sounds like just some random ad in a magazine way in the back with those x-ray glasses that it says you can see through girls bikinis and shit like that from like 1986 you know itching powder yeah itching powder and sea monkeys and that have like muscles and shit in the little picture and like a whole society going on those spark bombs work though those are good we cleared out a wendy's

one time with one of those boy that was amazing it doesn't take much no one all cleared the whole place that the cops came they thought it was some kind of was crazy we just sat back like holy shit there was a hazmat team making sure there wasn't like a gas leak did somebody step on it or just throw it it was a little glass one we just put it on the ground we ate some food put it on the ground stepped on it walked out and then the ate some food, put it on the ground, stepped on it, and walked out. And then the place just went outside and watched the place fucking empty. It was amazing. I was 13, so, I mean, that was fun at the time.

I don't know when you gave single, though. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're not getting anything. You're like, ah, why did I get the triple? So, now, Frank and DJ and the Denise's here. March 25th, 1993. It's four o'clock in the morning, 4 a.m. And DJ calls 911.

Oh, and he states this quote. This is DJ Stenson at Dakota Farms. Frank has just shot my wife and himself, I think. Frank has just shot my wife and himself, I think. So apparently Frank went buck wild, shot Denise one, and himself afterwards. Okay. Now, so obviously they send the cops and ambulance and everything like that over to Dakota Farms. He DJs outside, meets the officers outside.

He says, you know, come on in. He's not like hanging out with a Scotch sitting in a recliner when they get there. So just doing lines. Hey, guys, how you doing? Come on in. Come in. Come on in, guys. Hey.

He leads them first to a downstairs guest bedroom where Frank is face down on the floor with a gunshot wound to the head. So that looks pretty bad. And then there's the revolver is rested beside his hand wound to the head. So that looks pretty bad. And then the revolver is rested beside his hand next to his head. So it's all right there. So then Stenson brings them up to the master bedroom where his wife, 28-year-old Denise, is in bed. She is wounded with a gunshot wound to the head, but she's still alive. Oh, Frank's dead downstairs. He's totally dead.

She is still breathing. She's still alive, still has a heartbeat. So they airlift her to Harbor Harborview Hospital, but she died the next morning. So, yeah, she died then. So both of them end up dead here. So obviously they're like, well, what the fuck? Why did he shoot your wife and then himself?

That's a very odd. Highlander Denise. This is weird. Yeah, this doesn't. There can only be one. There can only be one. I'm fighting for the honor of my Denise. My Denise shall not be impugned.

So he tells, DJ tells the cops that the night this happened you know it's 4 a.m. but that evening DJ Frank and the Denise's all had dinner together at a restaurant. They all went out. DJ said when he got home from dinner

he called Frank and told him hey you should come over to Dakota Farms here to sign some insurance forms for some ostriches that were going to be purchased by Stenson for the two of them. They were going to go in on a batch of ostriches. You go in on like a bag of weed together back in the day. They're going in on a bag of ostriches. Let's do it. So Stenson then tells them, DJ, so uh stenson uh then tells them dj he says that uh frank said he was too tired but that he would come over at 3 30 in the morning which is on his that which would be on his way to catch the ferry to go to work oh because it takes a while to get there then you gotta take the ferry out now because

i gotta be up at 3 a.m but if you want i'll stop by on my way exactly i'll stop by the middle of the night now dj's like sure i'm coked up i'll be up till whenever so i'll be awake come on i'll be i'll be up definitely insurance paperwork sounds great you're raring for paperwork if you're coked up at 3 a.m my paperwork yeah let's do it so dj said he called frank back and told him to call before he came over in the morning. Just give me a heads up, which makes sense in case I fall asleep or whatever. So DJ then tells the cops that Frank had come to the house early that day to sign the insurance forms. Obviously, he was there a few minutes before 3.30. He said that Frank had invested over $30,000 in the exotic bird business. had invested over $30,000 in the exotic bird business.

And that DJ had told Frank that Frank was going to, or that DJ was going to go to Texas to pick up Frank's ostriches and some for himself as well. So I'm going to Texas for some ostriches. You need anything? That's amazing. Can I grab you like an emu or something? Just like a, no.

Okay. I'll be back. That is a fascinating sentence. That's wild, right? I've never even thought that that's, but that's how big the world is, Jimmy. We don't think of these things, but somewhere in the corner of some corner of this world, probably right as we're speaking now, someone's going, I'm getting some emus. Do you need any?

Someone's saying that. I'm making an emu do you need any someone's saying that i'm making an evening making a runt yeah you need an emu what do you need a few i'll pick you up a batch what do you got here those don't eat like bird seed right what do those eat beats the shit men i think people children children villagers i don't know i don't know what you giant fucking claws they're nasty as shit they're nasty yeah i don't know what They've got giant fucking claws. They're nasty as shit. They're nasty. Yeah, I don't know what they eat. They look like they eat meat, though.

They look like they tear flesh from a body. An ostrich has, like, raptor legs. It's crazy. Oh, God, those things are scary. A fucking nasty claw? Those things are insane. Giant dinosaurs. Those are scary.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, now DJ tells Frank that, or tells the cops that Frank had not brought

any cash that morning, but that he had, but Frank had given DJ $6,850 for the insurance two weeks earlier. Now Frank's Denise said that according to Frank, Frank had to give DJ the money. And according to her, she thought that, uh, Frank would have had $10,000 in a briefcase that morning to give to him, to give to DJ. So that's just one of the things that's a little bit off. And so DJ tells them that when Frank came over to the home, a little, you know, around 3.30, they went out to the office, which is in a separate building behind the house,

and that Frank signed the insurance forms out there. So then he said that Frank became glum, the way he put it quote unquote glum uh when he told dj told frank that he should raise the ostriches here um at his own home he said why don't you raise them at your house rather than having them here even though five fucking acres even though i have kind of an exotic bird farm that i run here so i'm all set up for it i'm all set up but i mean yeah you could just put them in your living room they don't shit that much closet somewhere yeah dog cage them i don't know so dj said that frank then left the office building to go to the house to use the bathroom so he got glum and then needed to use the bathroom

is the story so dj says that when frank didn't return to the office frank went into the house to look for him and he found him in the guest bedroom all shot to death said holy shit yeah dj said i didn't even hear any gunshots out there didn't hear shit but lo and behold there he is on the floor god damn story is frank got upset went take a shit didn't come back so i went looking for yeah frank got upset because he was told that maybe he should raise the emus or the ostriches on his property. So he got sort of upset, had to go to the bathroom, and shot himself in the head, which seems like an overreaction. It just seems like, I'm going to go out on a limb. It seems like a bit of an overreaction, right?

How much is Denise giving you shit about this where now you having to bring him home is gonna fucking cause that's what i mean problem at home jesus so dj said he as he looked at frank all dead there he heard moaning from upstairs and went to find his wife also shot in the head he said then he called 9-1-1 and he said i think frank shot my wife and shot himself that's the only explanation here there's a gun by him wife's shot he's shot in the head looks like he uh you know yeah murder suicide case closed case closed all right everybody everybody everybody good all right i think everybody should get out of my house now because uh the case is closed and everything's fine and everything's good i'm gonna clean up now bye lock it when

you close it. See you later. Bye. I'm going to take the television apart. See you. Bye. So he said that their children age six, four, and one were asleep and didn't wake up when the shooting happened either. They slept right through it. This great insulation

in this house. Wow, this is awesome. From room to room, it's awesome. So when they asked him, does he know any other, any reason why anyone would want to kill Frank or Denise, he said that, I mean, there's been some problems in Frank and

Frank's Denise, you know, his wife, Frank's wife Denise, there's been some problems in their sexual relationship. Why do you know that? That's okay. You called murder-suicide, come to my house. Anybody do you know that would want to hurt them? Rather than, I mean...

I don't know if his dick's been soft lately. I don't know. Him and his wife have been having sexual problems? What the hell kind of... What kind of a sexual problem is it where his wife would want to hurt him for it? That's a real problem he's having. Does anybody hate him? Well, his wife's dry and he's limp does that help does that help no arid as a desert afternoon buddy as a as a jula day in the mojave i'll tell you something

so they say that um that's what he says, that they had problems in their sexual relationship. Then, one of the deputies says, quote, you mentioned earlier that you kind of thought that Frank was sweet on your Denise. Meaning his wife, DJ's wife. So DJ answered that he knew Frank liked her, his own wife,

you know, DJ's wife, and that he said that Frank complained about his relationship with his own wife. Okay, well, that's wife, and that he said that Frank complained about his relationship with his own wife. Okay, well, that's fine. I mean, there's plenty of people who hate their own wife and think someone else's wife is pretty nice. That doesn't mean that they're going to do a murder-suicide over it. That seems a bit extreme, right? They'd probably imagine her while they're fucking their own Denise, but all right.

That's all. That's the extent of it yeah so at 5 28 a.m stenson signs a consent form for the officers officers to search his entire residence and all the outbuildings and vehicles and you know just a whole whatever they want so he also gives voluntary voluntary uh permission for them to search his clothing and gives his clothing voluntarily to one of the detectives as well so he's doing all that no other physical evidence was taken until later in the morning when uh they got a full search warrant they this is all we'll grab the preliminary shit with

permission but then to grab forensic type stuff they're gonna wait till they get the proper warrant for that so uh 11 16 a.m. on March 25th here. That's the next morning. I think the a superior court judge. Yeah, because the 23rd 24th and the 25th will be the next morning. So a superior court judge issues the search warrant for this place here. It's at

55 Kane Lane, by the way in Squim. So now there's like businesses around there. I saw there's like a animal spa thing and there's like shit like that around there. So it's not a farm per se anymore. It's multiple businesses.

So they get a bunch of search warrants. They also get warrants for DJ Stenson's property and records things, various bank account records, phone records, bookkeeping records of Dakota farms and a storage locker. So in the initial request, the officers sought permission to look for evidence of a relationship between the Stenson's and the Horner's as well.

So they told the judge that the physical evidence of blood spattering at the scene does not appear consistent with DJ's story of an attempted murder and suicide that happened. Okay, they're saying the spatter looks different than that. The officers also told the judge that Denise Horner, Frank's wife, had told the officers that the Horners were good friends with and business partners with the Stensons. So there could be something here now denise's brother uh denise stenson's brother the dead lady here her brother told officers that dj was planning or i'm sorry that denise was planning to end the no dj the stenson's were planning to end the partnership business-wise with Frank Horner and that there was an attraction between Frank Horner and Denise Stenson. I don't know if it goes one way or both ways.

That we're not sure about. Now, the autopsy is going to do a lot because we're going to have to – the spatter doesn't work out. Let's see what the autopsy says. The autopsy of Frank shows that he had been assaulted before he was shot. Oh, he kicked the shit out of himself? That's a problem. Yeah, he was doing self-flagellation, and then he said, this isn't working fast enough, and he shot himself.

They said he'd been struck on the head with a rectangular-shaped blunt instrument. Okay. So that's not consistent at all with, you know, murder-suicide, unless he went to kill Denise and she bopped him on the head a couple of times before he did it. That'd be the only thing. So the, they said this head injury though was so bad it would have rendered him either unconscious or at least stunned momentarily.

So this is a good smack. Yeah. These are, these are fucking blows to the head here. The autopsy report also noted that bits of gravel were embedded in Frank's back and buttocks. Gravel. You usually don't have that in your

bedroom, right? Usually it's carpet, tile, or wood. There's not a lot of... Sometimes it's just raw plywood. We're graveling the guest bedroom today is not something you hear often. Then we're going lavendering after that. Going to go with a nice pea gravel this year. Yeah, yeah.

And then we're having picacos. Damp it down. So that's a problem. The gravel, when tested, appeared to be from the driveway at the Stenson residence. Uh-oh. So he didn't, like, fall down at his his house then come over there with gravel embedded in his skin which would be a strange thing

to do anyway. So the autopsy shows as well. In his ass? Yeah, like in his skin up there and his lower back. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like his shirt came off his pants. Yeah, it wasn't like in his hole. They didn't have like was it really stuck up there? He had four pebbles in his butthole.

It was real weird. Did he slip real hard? He slipped hard, boy. You got to hit hard to get it through the pants. I don't know how he didn't break his tailbone, to be honest with you. So they said that the autopsy shows that it doesn't look like Frank committed suicide, but he was killed by a single bullet wound to the head. We'll find other things as well here on the Frank deal.

Thing that's even weirder, though, Denise's autopsy reveals marks on her wrist consistent with being tied or bound. Oh, what the shit? So she was tied up. So this is very strange. Either they're doing some real kinky sexual shit involving bondage and gravel and emus, and we don't know about it, or- In no time flat, because all he did was go take a shit. That's what I mean. Quick.

He waited, what, 10 minutes? How long do you wait until you go, Jesus, how long is this guy going to shit for? 20 minutes? 15 minutes? How long do you get that comfortable at a friend's house? Yeah, really, yeah. Get in and get out. What do you got to read in there, pal?

I'm going to pinch one off. Going with my phone, play some Candy Crush. Well, 93, I'm thinking. So they need magazines at 93. What do you got to read in there? So the subsequent investigation here, the conclusion is that Frank was beaten unconscious, dragged into the house from the gravel driveway, through the laundry room and into the guest bedroom where he was shot in the head at close range.

So because that's where the that's where the blood was. Evidence showed that Frank's hand had come to rest. Then the revolver came to rest on it or it was placed in his hand. They can tell that very easily. Homicide detectives can tell in two seconds if the person holding the gun really shot themselves or not it's it's one of the yeah you can tell the way the the way the hands are on the gun it's they know if it's real or not you can tell it's just if it's placed it does not look right it looks like a mannequin it looks like a gi joe that you stuck a fucking gun in their hand

that's what it looks like it doesn't work right like that. So they had they searched DJ's place here. He had a collection of nunchuck like shit on the wall. A lot of them with the correct edges that would have made those marks on the wall of his office. And they said that the

weapon used to render Frank unconscious was consistent with these weapons. So... Michelangelo'd him? Yeah, he whacked him with nunchucks. How coked out is that? How coke dealer is it with ostriches and shit running around to smash your partner in the fucking head

with a goddamn nunchuck? Boater in! I mean, and then fucking drag him inside and shoot him well he's gotta be a bruce lee fan right of course he is he's a 70s coke guy of course he is he was probably wearing a silk robe tied you know he was yellow and black with asian designs yes you know he was you know exactly what i'm talking about david carradineine. One of the two. This is bizarre. All of it. Chuck Norris even.

He doesn't care. So they said that the doctor who did this, Dr. Brady, said that the appearance of Frank's wounds was consistent with being caused by these weapons. Stenson, by the way, is a martial arts instructor. Again, how coke can you get? Stenson, by the way, is a martial arts instructor. Again, how coke can you get? I teach karate, and I'm going to sail to the Philippines, and then I'm going to come back and buy emus and ostriches and do coke off them. That's what I'm going to do right off their beaks.

This is a story about how great America used to be. You could just do all this. This is insanity. You can't do this anymore. This is crazy. This is insanity. You can't do this anymore. This is crazy. This is crazy. So the investigators also find spatters of Frank's blood out in the driveway, which is not good for DJ here, and in the laundry room, and a bloody fingerprint of DJ's on the freezer in the laundry room. So it's not going well for DJ here.

Also, DJ's jeans had blood spatters on them, which were consistent with Frank's blood protein profile. It was too degraded for DNA, I think, because it's 93 also. Some of the blood spatters on the jeans were the type of stains which could not have been deposited on the pants after frank you know he couldn't say well i saw frank and i went in there and got blood on me they were spatters they were come you can tell that they

came how fast did you get in here was it still in the air it was that's what i mean was it floating in the air still that would have been impressive it was it was were floating in the air still? That would have been impressive. Were you in the Matrix? What happened? So ammo, which fits the murder weapon, was also found in DJ's garage. And particles of gunshot residue were found inside DJ's right pants pocket. Uh-oh. So this is not looking good here. They also revealed that Stenson was in difficult financial circumstances. Frank had paid him a total of $50,000, which was listed on his business books as deposits on birds.

But at the time of Frank's death, the book showed that only one purchase for two smaller birds totaling under $2,000 had been made from that investment. So that means $48,000 in his pocket or up his nose or wherever it goes. So the bank account of Dakota farms had a balance of approximately $3,400, which is not enough. And an audit of his accounts, DJ's account showed that investors money had been spent on the sense Stenson's personal items and purchases. The owner of the actual land kit Eld, was pressuring DJ to buy the property quickly at that point because he had heard there's an investigation.

So he's like, why don't you go ahead and just – we'll finish this up and sew it up there. That way the federal government will seize it from you and not me. That would be good. If you have money, I give you a deed. Let's get this over. Let's get it going here. So I guess in February of 93, DJ had told his landlord that he would buy the property soon because business was booming. The ostrich business is cooking, man.

So the evidence also shows that DJ had sought large loans shortly before the deaths that happened as well. shows that DJ had sought large loans shortly before this, the deaths that happened as well. Now, life insurance policies were found in the office showing that DJ had purchased a total of $400,000 of life insurance on Denise's life. Yeah. $300,000 policy, uh, was naming the owner of Dakota farms as the beneficiary. This is a mortgage insurance thing. So that became effective in May 92. So then there was another $100,000 one that was payable right to DJ. little more background on what goes on inside the Stenson residence she tells the cops that DJ himself told her Denise Horner yeah that Denise Stenson DJ Denise over here right she was only allowed to leave the house once a day what is that about okay controlling her uh-huh yeah they said that uh she said he told me just because my husband let me gallivant around town. Anyone who uses the word gallivant in a non-sarcastic or non-fucking.

That's not the context of a fucking joke. If you mean that seriously, using that word in a serious fashion, that is hilarious. It's still a joke. It's fun. But this isn't funny. serious fashion that is hilarious it's still a joke it's fun but this isn't funny he told me just because my husband let me gallivant around town he wasn't gonna let his wife uh that do that and his wife uh her job was to be in the home and she was to stay there at the house oh my yeah so now he said jesus christ he will later on argue that that can't be used against me.

That's irrelevant. So what if I want her gallivanting or not? That doesn't matter. Who cares? He literally said that. The fact that he didn't want his wife, quote, gallivanting around town is irrelevant. So that is fucking funny. He also said, told her at one point that in front of people that uh yes she

can use his truck to go somewhere but if anything happens to his truck she's going to be in a lot of trouble oh so treats are like a treats are like a 14 year old you know it's it's strange or a 16 year old that just got their license or something it's fucking weird so uh there's other evidence here uh statements from mrs horner, Frank Denise, said that I guess there was this. This is when they discover that they start looking into shit and they start thinking that the boat sinking was insurance fraud and shit like that. items that had been reported missing along with the ship were an Apple Macintosh computer and scuba gear and a seemingly identical computer and scuba gear matching the description of that lost on the ship as well as other nautical equipment were found at Dakota Farms. Oh, shit.

So he took all the equipment off, sunk the boat, and then said, oh, I need insurance for my boat and all that equipment. So yeah, it's terribly done. A terribly done insurance. Left a boat at the bottom of the Pacific and took all. So yeah, it's terribly done. A terribly done insurance. Left a boat at the bottom of the Pacific and took all the shit off of it. Took it all. He still has it.

So business records indicated that Dakota Farms also, like we said, was in trouble. Records, business cards, and credit cards and legal papers indicated that DJ had currently been involved in several other unrelated businesses

he used other names was in debt had filed for bankruptcy in the last couple years he's a fucking mess at this point just a disaster so um the uh also drugs were found in his home as well as criminal information papers describing charges against DJ for possession of cocaine. He still had those. The DEA, the Drug Enforcement Agency, had interviewed DJ. And a DEA affidavit apparently referred to in the information states that DJ described a method for laundering profits from drug sales in the past. So this is not great. None of this evidence looks good for DJ.

He's in a lot of trouble. It looks really, really, really bad. So it does not look good, man. So, yeah, the landlord ends up transferring him the property because he said since he got the money for the mortgage insurance, he transfers the property, and he said he wanted to do it very quickly even though he was under no legal duty to do this, the landlord. But he said he wanted to do it because he didn't want anything to do with it because he heard that the place was going to get raided for drugs. Yeah, I want out of this.

He didn't even want cops to even come talk to him when that shit happened. So, yeah. And also he said, i was concerned for my family's safety at the time he said well if this guy does that maybe he'll come kill me and my wife too so um he decided to accelerate the sale because an agent with the irs also had contacted him about some phone calls from uh the squim property to a drug dealer that they were investigating so there's alphabet agency is not investigating this guy all of them it's every single one of them it's fucking wild he's got them all he's really got it's like him and bin laden were the only people that had this every

agency looking into him so he's he's treating them like pokemon john gaudy didn't have this many agencies on him so the charges come in they They decide to charge DJ with the murders here. They're like, we think you did it, pal. So he's arrested on April 8th, 93. So a couple of weeks go by. Two counts of first degree aggravated murder. Oh, boy. Which the state files that they intend to seek the death penalty here.

Yeah. Now, Denise's brother, Denise Stenson, dead Denise. There's live Denise and dead dead denise dead denise here this poor denise her brother and sister-in-law her brother's wife they operate the ostrich farm now they inherited it apparently and they believe that dj is innocent they said oh it sounds to me like emu taking care of his real fucking heart yeah he's innocent yeah he's innocent um another guy vern vorenkamp said that he has known he's known dj for 15 years he sold him uh he's the one who sold him the insurance policies and he's also invested in the

in the ostrich ranch and he thinks he's a swell guy so they don't know the evidence right they're not hope not i mean come on you guys it's very obvious it seems obvious there's nobody else there unless one of the ostriches did it that's right yeah i don't know how good they are with those big claws you never know so the trial comes up it's a death penalty case here's the evidence he wants not to be included in the trial well there's a lot that he wants but here's what he's trying legally to not allow. The fact that he uses aliases, because that looks bad

on you. Evidence that he had collected public assistance under an assumed name, which had ceased shortly before the murder. So he was doing all this. He was also collecting welfare under one of his aliases, even though he was owning a farm and selling Coke and collecting insurance money.

He's scamming that as well. Let's see. Any allegation or evidence that DJ had in the past engaged in insurance fraud in relation to insurance proceeds he collected from the sinking of his boat? Any evidence of his past criminal record in the guilt phase? Obviously not the sentencing evidence that there was a stun gun in Stenson's desk drawer. Evidence that the landlord and owner of the farm had been contacted by the IRS and told they were investigating the drug things here. All these things. Not most of this gets into the trial, though.

Most of those things make me look real bad. Please don't talk about those prior bad acts can't come in unless DJ testifies himself or the defense brings up character or we're move on to the penalty phase. So the prosecutor tells the jury that the physical evidence makes the murder suicide story impossible. It doesn't work like that. He didn't bash himself over in the head, crawl in on his ass through the gravel,

and then blow his brains out. That's not how this goes. Walking on his ass cheeks like an Atlanta stripper? What is that? What's happening here? They call that the Atlanta shuffle. I don't... That's the Atlanta crawl right there. That is. So, the other Denise,

the live Denise, Frank's wife she is going to testify that dj convinced frank that he could double his money by investing in the exotic bird business and that frank could get rich and have a better life than working so hard as a carpet installer so he started investing in 1992 and he'd given stenson fifty thousand dollars from the sale of their home that they had sold their house. He took $50,000 of that, invested it here. So, yeah, they talk about Frank had been worried about the money he had invested and he told the Stensons that he wanted the birds or his money back, one of the two.

Obviously, Frank, our DJ, didn't have his money. So also there was also messages on his answering machine from bird dealers in texas going hey he said you're gonna pick your birds up on thursday and it's fucking saturday now what's going on let me know what's up so he had like all these bird orders that he wasn't fulfilling he wasn't taking so uh she testified that dj told her and frank that he needed money uh he needed to keep their money in his account to show Asian investors that he had money so he could get a loan from them. So he needed to, you know, puff up his bottom line here. So they also she also said that DJ told Frank to come to his house that night to sign the insurance papers in case something happened to the birds on the way back from Texas. That's how the whole thing was. There's a palm print. Now he claims that there's

a bloody partial palm print on the dryer. This is DJ's defense claim, which was not that it wasn't his. Now, that's not accurate, though, because the palm print from the dryer wasn't bloody. It was actually an old palm print, probably most likely from denise they figured out so nothing to do with that and there was no evidence of any blood there at all so no blood just just a big hunk of emu shit so in the closing argument later on they talk about the palm print and uh all this type of shit so midway through the case dj says, hold on. Hold the phone. You think he's just going to go through a trial like a normal person?

No. I want to fire my attorney. Done with him. And as a matter of fact, I'm done with lawyers in general. I'd like to represent myself from here on out. Of course he does. I'm going to represent myself. I know the law really well.

I've been reading a lot of books in jail. I think I can do it. I talked to a couple other guys that did it and sure, they got 30 years to life, but I think I can do it because I'm a lot smarter than them, you know what I mean? They never raised birds. They never did any of that. I'm going to impress the jury with my nunchucks and my robes. Yup, I'm going to do a karate display for them.

Watch this kata. Karate exhibition for him. He gets up, bows to the jury. All 12 of us, one at a time. Now, obviously, the Ferretta right to self-representation, it's called, but it's not absolute. Basically, if you can't represent yourself enough to where it's going to get thrown out in appeal because you were just floating out there and didn't know what you were doing, then the judge won't let you do it. You have to prove you sort of know a little bit what you're doing and that you're kind of competent to do this. And then they also make you usually have legal counsel next to you that are,

you can't just go out there by yourself walking you through it. This guy's like, I can do it. through it this guy's like i can do it so no problem he said i would like to formally make a motion then then that i i be able to allow to represent myself that's what he said in court right there i'd go no i'm gonna cut you off right now i would formally make a motion then that I be able to to allow to represent myself. No, I want to do this. I want I do not want to do this. But the court and the counsel that I currently have forced me to do this. As I said, I've been under the illusion that I was going to be defended, not merely as Mr. Leatherman stated the other day, he would cross examine witnesses. This is not a defense.

The other day he would cross examine witnesses. This is not a defense. So the court, the judge said, I do not consider the issue of trial strategy or trial tactics, which are going to be undertaken here as anything which is resolved. And he said, excuse me, that's exactly what he said. I'm not even kidding. That's the fucking excuse me. Your answer, sir, is indicative of why I don't want you to do this. So the judge said, and I'm sure in an annoyed voice, I don't consider that resolved. That's a decision between you and your counsel that will have to be resolved as we get to trial, as we go through the trial. And I can't resolve that for you as a motion to represent yourself at this point in the trial. And I have indicated certainly you have the constitutional right to do so if the motion is timely made at this point I find that it's not timely made you can fuck yourself so he says this is him now

DJ but likewise I'm gonna stop you right there DJ shut the fuck up and sit down that's not what's said in court DJ but likewise I do not proceed with counsel that DJ shut the fuck up and sit down. That's not what's said in court, DJ. But likewise, I do not proceed with counsel that I have. Basically my attorneys, after months of refusing to investigate certain things that I thought my

family thought were very important to the case. Basically there, I, Mr. Leatherman, I attempted to fire him twice in the past. And each time I did that, I was just kind of poo-pooed and

said no things will be handled poo-pooed gallivanting i love the way this guy talks he's out of his mind basically it's wild basically the night before they came because he probably did this his hand poo-pooed like that you know you know that everybody knows the gesture i'm doing um basically the night before they came to see me they said that unless I agreed to the way they wanted to proceed on the trial, they were going to withdraw. And what they wanted to both their views on the death penalty prohibit them from fighting for me. And I want to state I'm not guilty of these charges that are against me. And we have many, many, many things, too, that will corroborate this. But I was told because of their views on me and basically what he's saying here is that he's saying i didn't

do it his lawyers are taking the strategy of let's save your life yeah you obviously fucking did this the evidence is pretty bad um we're gonna take the tactic you guys are looking at it all wrong exactly he's like no no burnt fucking. We scorched earth this bitch. Salt that shit so nothing grows behind it. Don't care. So his lawyer said, your honor, I believe as lead counsel, it's my responsibility to make tactical decisions. He said that the bloodstain evidence presented at the guilt phase is irrefutable. What the fuck do you want?

So he says, quote, this is the lawyer. So he is very seriously handicapped. All right. Well, that's one way to put it. For that reason and my considered judgment, I don't think that if I had to give a percentage of chances of winning in the guilt phase, I would characterize it as one in a thousand at best. We're fucked.

And he's an asshole. Yeah. He said, and for that reason, tactically, I will not do anything that's going to prejudice saving his life in the penalty phase. We do have a strategy for the penalty phase. I won't go into it now. I don't think it's necessary at this stage. So he goes, yeah, he goes into all that.

So the judge says, fuck it. We're proceeding with the lawyer. Week later, the lawyer himself makes a motion to withdraw. He's like, I'm fucking done. I'm done. And he does. There's an article in the Squim Gazette where he stated he could no longer represent Stenson in view of the Stenson's family's dissatisfaction with his job. So he said, quote, this is the lawyer.

And right now, I'm very concerned about the nature of the attorney client relationship. Right now I don't feel like I have an attorney client relationship with Mr. Stenson. I'm extremely frustrated with him to the point of really not wanting to go on with the case. Put a lot of work and effort into this case on his behalf. And to read something like this, something as this at this point, just it's disgusting. Quite frankly, I can't stand the sight of him. I can't stand this guy. He's such an asshole.

Now, the blood on his pants that he was wearing, more evidence here, at the time of the murders were an important piece. There are stains there. Obviously, that's bad, clearly. Obviously, that's bad, clearly. Now, the proteins, by the way, in this show that these particular proteins in the blood match only 2.2% of the white population, of which Frank is in that. So it's pretty sure they were in there. And they said, obviously, they were airborne when they hit based on the way they hit and all that sort of thing. So the verdict comes in here.

They find him guilty of premeditated murder in the first degree. Sentencing comes around. Aggravating factors. They found there was more than one person murdered, obviously, as part of a common scheme or plan. He committed the murder to conceal the commission of a crime or to protect or conceal the identity of a person committing a crime. And more than one person is a part of a scheme or whatever. This is diabolical as fuck. It's crazy.

This is fucking, this is cold-blooded, man, as cold as it gets. And mitigating circumstances are, they were, his family came on and said, we would like him to not be killed. And they actually disallowed that and said, that's not mitigating evidence. That's just, you like him as, who are you, basically. We'd have to have a whole trial whether your opinion's worth a shit. The thing is, the guy's main motivation is killing his wife to get the insurance money. And then he utilized the fact that this guy gave him money and he doesn't want

to give a business deal doesn't want to give it back so he's getting like a drug dealer and then framing it like this this is fucked up two birds one stone all my problems all my money oh no and look at me i'm a free man like it's insanely deep well they come back with you, sir. They fuck off. Death penalty for you. Yeah. Death penalty. You can either take lethal injection or hanging. It's your choice. Oh, he's got a dealer's choice with the hanging?

Dealer's choice with the hanging. He actually has a lot of appeals, but the silliest one that I think is that the there there's been uh he it's it's about his defense lawyer he talks about his defense lawyer basically didn't want to be involved in the case so therefore you know he didn't do a good job and they said that's evidence is good fuck you so 1998 set for execution, and the judge grants a stay for two weeks. Okay. He has not made his choice of lethal injection or hanging, but I guess the default is lethal injection if you don't give a preference. They just stick you.

So November 21st, 2008, he's set for execution when the state's Roman Catholic bishops asked the governor to commute his death sentence, three bishops representing diocese in Seattle, Spokane and Yakima asked that he receive a life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. And also religious shit. That's it. Attorneys say that the pants, that the prosecutor suppressed evidence, evidence of a videotape of one of the detectives wearing, he put on the gunshot residue pants. Stop it. While wearing a gun belt. So the gun was by the pocket. On the outside of it, not the inside of it, but it had a gun by the pocket and they didn't show that. So they're saying.

Other question, why are you putting them on? Why are you wearing them? So I want to see if they fit you know i've been looking for a new brand of khakis that would work better for me anybody put on gains uh uh skin yeah what do you just try it on you just try it on everybody tries on stuff that's what you do see if it's a pass it around pass it around the jury see if any of them could use it fuck anybody in your family wear this you think so this goes all the way to may 2012 they still haven't executed him they actually issue a stay based on the pants the state supreme court overturns his murder conviction and death sentence and then they uh they also say that he couldn't he's not going to be able to receive a fair trial

in that county so he gets a new new trial and they find him guilty again. And he's sentenced to Yusa may fuck off life imprisonment, no parole. And he is there now. So there he is. His life saved by the Supreme Court. By yeah, by those damn pants, by some detectives videotape. So why would you do that? You idiot.

Coke deal and taco Tuesday eating ostrich man. Johnny Ostrich, I've been calling him. Johnny Ostrich is out of his mind. What a story. What a wild story. That is Small Town Murder Express. Tell everybody, get on whatever app you're on. Honestly, this helps the show a lot.

Give us five stars. Say something nice. That really does help. When you say something and give five stars, it drives the show up the charts. So please, please do that head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now check out all the dates for our live shows first of all new shows up as we're new that

is the Thursday show in Seattle it's an extra show and then a late show in Portland that night so check those out shut up and give me murder dot com patreon dot com slash crime and sports where you get all the bonus materials. Holy shit. Anybody $5 a month or above.

You get access to all of it this week, which you're going to get is the find out the main reason for American divorces. We're going to find out the history of fantasy sports in that. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about Kai, the hatchet wielding hitchhiker. I'm not even going to explain it.

If that description doesn't get you interested, I don't know why you're listening to this show. So check that out. It's a wild story, and we'll listen to his interview and everything. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Hold back catalog, and you're going to get a shout-out at the end of the regular show. You want to follow on social media at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. Check all those out. Follow us there for all the new updates and information.

Want to follow us on social media? There's links to everything at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion

that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting

all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.