Small Town Murder - #361 - A Killer Conspiracy - Minot, North Dakota

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

This week, in Minot, North Dakota, a very twisted story unfolds, after a couple breaks up, and moves on. They fight, they argue, and there is no peace between them. But when one of them is murdered in a bloody, hideous scene, it becomes a huge mystery. Was it the ex? The current spouse? A stranger? What ends up coming out blows away any scenario that anyone had even thought of. A twisted plan, and a truly crazy aftermath!! Along the way, we find out that county fairs are a big deal in North Dakota, that not all alibi stories are created equal, and that sometimes there actually is a big conspiracy!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Minot, North Dakota, a brutal bloodbath sends a town looking for answers. But when those answers are found, it turns out the whole thing was much worse than everyone thought.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. More live shows. Oh, hey. Not only live shows in person, but a virtual live show we're going to do. Another one if you're out of the country or in a place we're not coming to this year. Damn it, you just want more live shows because they are fun.

Oh, my goodness. We're doing one on 4-20, April 20th. And you never know. Wink, wink. Yeah. Jimmy might be – I might get Jimmy to ing ingest something possibly who knows uh let's just say that i will say this you've never seen it but i have jimmy on edibles is amazing he is a giggly giggly bastard and it's a great time his head will get red and it's not even fair it's so great so

come check that out shut up and give me murder.com. I think those tickets are on sale February 13th, I believe. So Monday they'll be on sale. So if you're listening to this when it comes out, they're on sale now. Get them now. Also, extra show added in Seattle, extra show added in Portland. Pittsburgh and Detroit are on there. Get those tickets. They are going fast.

So we're very excited for that. Thank you. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get the bonus stuff all the whole back catalog of bonus stuff there's like 150 episodes there and we put out new bonus episodes

on patreon every other week two episodes and anybody who's five dollars a month or above gets that this week which you're going to get and you get it all for crime and sports which you get we're going to talk about and you get it all, for Crime and Sports, which you get, where you're going to talk about And One, which was the brand and the mixed tapes and the basketball and the whole thing that went on with that and the shoes. And we'll talk documentary and a little beyond that as well. Then for Small Town Murder, something really weird and gross, we're going to talk about Sex and the People's Temple.

The People's Temple is Jim Jones and jonestown and all that and we will find out when you get one person in charge of a thousand people yeah how weird shit gets and it gets really weird man oh oh my god he just has sex with everybody and it's gross and we'll talk all about it page not good for anybody patreon.com slash crime and sports is how you do all of that. And you'll also get a shout out where Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show. He wants to get it right, but he can't. So that's how it works. Quick disclaimer, this is a comedy show.

We're comedians. Yes, there'll be murder. And yes, we'll make jokes about it. But we do it in a nice way. Like they used to say about dirty magazines. We do it very tastefully. We go out of our way not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why is that, James?

Because we're assholes. What? But we're not scumbags, and that's what's important here. So that's what we've got going on here. And one thing that people get the most upset about is making fun of the towns, which is the most innocuous thing. They don't mind murder jokes, but they're like, you said that downtown didn't have enough restaurants. First of all, it's a review.

We read it. I didn't. Number one, anything we're saying about a town. We've never been to these places. Never. We're going off what we read from people who say they've been there, and we're roasting it because we're comedians. Fuck what I wrote mine out for. That's what I mean. because we're comedians it's not what i we don't care not for that's what i mean we don't care it's not everybody's from somewhere shitty and we all

make fun of it and if you get mad at us for it listen to i think episode 214 fishkill new york and you'll realize that trust me it's worse well we're much harder on our own stuff so that said come back and listen to prescott yeah i think uh it's time for all of us to sit back. Jimmy, what do you say? Let's clear the lungs. Let's clear the lungs. I don't care where you are right now. I don't care if you're at your kid's Little League game.

I want you to run to the pitcher's mound, shove that nine-year-old off, hands to the sky, and shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. What do you say? All right. Let's go on a trip here. And we are going up to Minot, North Dakota. Oh, boy.

Oh, yeah. That's up there, man. I mean, we're talking. This place is, Minot's very, everybody knows about Minot. You've heard of it. It's one of those places that's referenced, like Toledo. It comes up for some reason. I don't know what the fuck that is.

You know it exists, though. I've heard of Akron. Yeah. But Toledo would come up. When you're a kid, you hear of Albuquerque from Bugs Bunny a lot. Minot might be a place like that. And it's M-I-N-O-T, and it's not Minot or anything. It's Minot.

That's how they say it. I only know that because a quarterback from here started the opening day game for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1977. His name was Randy Hedberg, and he was like this eighth-round draft pick, and all the other quarterbacks were hurt, and they threw him out there. And the fans had signs that said, why not, my not. They were like, he got destroyed. That sounds dirty.

He got murdered out there. It was really not good. So this is in north-central North Dakota. So northern North Dakota is up there. It's almost Canada. Four hours and 20 minutes to Fargo, which is kind of down and more in civilization. Is this the most northern-like city

in America? I'm not sure. Is there anything more north of it? I mean, Seattle is on the border. Anchorage is probably more north than that. I know. Seattle's... I mean, Anchorage is obviously northern. Continental is what you're talking about. It's about three hours to Dickinson, North Dakota, which was our last episode, which was the Swanson Motel murders. That was a crazy one, too.

Weird stuff happens up here. It just does. Nobody's looking. Nobody's looking. It's a plains area. It's wide open spaces. I mean, there are times where it's beautiful. The spaces, the grasses and things like that.

It's like you went back in time 300 years and you can see what the country used to look like. It's one of those places. But if you want to go out and party, then Minot's not your joint. Saying it. Saying it. Ward County, it's in. Area code 701. Motto here, the nickname of this place, the Magic City.

Okay. Magic because we can't believe it's there. We're like, wow, someone must have magically put that there. It just appears. And that's kind of how it got its nickname, actually. A little bit of history here. It might not came around in 1886 is when the town became a town. The railroad track was laid through the area, and it just sprung up.

They called it the Magic City because it said – everybody said it sprung up as if by magic. Like one day there was nothing. Next day there was a city there. They're like, what the hell happened? So they said right in the beginning the population increased over 5,000 in the first few months it existed. It went from zero to over 5,000 immediately because there was a railroad.

So the town site was chosen by the railroad to be placed on some guy's land here. They convinced this guy. They were like, you'll be one of the town fathers if you just give us all your land to put this on. And he was like, okay. And that's what they did. Everybody wants to be important. It really did.

It was Eric Ronstad. And he was like, yes, I'll be one of the city leaders, which. I'll take it. Sure. Never heard of you since, sir. Town was named after, Jimmy? It sounds so dirty. Give her the old Minot.

Like a Minot surprise. She licked me right in my not it sounds like a sex it sounds the my not surprise sounds like a sex move doesn't it or like the my not you know dippery do or some shit it's a yeah you could come up with something because and use my not as it as for your next gross we have a people with some dirty minds please everybody come up with a disgusting sexual move and name it the minot mystery or some shit please for us and it includes a bottle for sure oh there's a butthole in there yeah because of the minot thing that's it's got to be a but a butthole thing so it was named after henry d minot who was a railroad infester and a bird enthusiast

that's how birds is an ornithologist. That was it there. So when you have enough money to invest in railroads, I guess you have time to look for birds. A bird-watching rich man. Yeah. But Minot, in the beginning, the first 50 years, it was like Deadwood. It was dangerous. There's nothing else around here.

It was crime, crime, crime. It was called the crime capital of north dakota dear fuck really which means they had like two muggings one year and it was really bad they were seven people that per capita it's great yeah i don't know how there's any crime there there's no one here if someone's bothering you move away there's There's plenty of, put some space between you. How about that? Problem solved. But 40% of the people get mugged every year. It's nuts. It's crazy.

The Attorney General of the state, William Langer, helped clean up the town from 1917 to 1920, but then Prohibition arrived. So they got it all. He said, I'm going to clean this town up, got it all cleaned up. Then Prohibition came and Minot became a center of illegal activities because the city turned out to be a supply hub for products to make liquor gang would take it from there. Is that right? In an episode about Minot, North Dakota, I bet you never thought Al Capone would come off what he did.

Chicago and all the Midwest is within reasonable area. It's right there, yeah. Yeah. Well, it has to come in from somewhere. Sure. There's nobody watching over here. I bet by Windsor there's people watching, Buffalo there's people watching.

Who the hell's watching over here? There's nobody there. Nobody. So it became a huge, huge hotbed of bootlegging, prostitution. There's opium dens everywhere in Minot. That place is great. They called Minot Little Chicago back then. Yes.

Minot. My kind of town. Minot is. I love it. Little Chicago. Little Chicago. Little doesn't even tell you how small it is. This is a speck compared to Chicago.

Absolutely, but this much crime. The smugglers used a network of tunnels. A lot were previously built for heating or for deliveries, and they used them to transport and conceal cargo coming in from Canada, is what they did. July 22nd, 1920, a tornado hit Minot and really fucked shit up. It was three miles southeast of town. The tornado picked up a guy named Andy Botts' house and hurled it to the ground. Basically picked it up and slammed it back down again on the side.

hurled it to the ground, basically picked it up and slammed it back down again on the side, killed his wife, broke his shoulder, and injured both of his children who were in the house. He was like, oh, man, my house is broken. My wife is dead. Well, I think that's what it was. And that was the thing. One of the kids took her slippers off, and then the whole thing changed. That's when Minot became color.

I don't know if you knew that. Before that, it was black and white. And all color. Super weird. There's blues and reds and all kinds of shit around here. Famous people from here. There's two. Josh Duhamel, that guy.

Josh Duhamel? Really? Yeah, he's from here. He looks like he's from North Dakota, doesn't he? You'd go, where are you from? Like Montana or North Dakota or something? I'll bet where you're from, you're insanely hot. Yeah, you know?

And Wiz Khalifa, it says. Now, I don't know. I don't believe that for a second. Minot is claiming Wiz Khalifa as their own. You hear that, Wiz? I don't know what's up with that. I don't know if that's between Minot and Wiz Khalifa, but I'm reporting on what reporting on what is being claimed that's all i can do that can't possibly be true all i can do is report on what the claims are i cannot i've never looked at wiz and thought certainly from the dakota region he's probably

for minot i'm thinking fargo seems like it's not his style it's my not if that's true you know what he should never live that town that's amazing on him forever or he should really embrace it and get like a big get a big like you know medallion that's a my not with diamonds and shit that's what i want to say this is my not what is khalifa and josh Duhamel hanging out together? So reviews of this town. Let's find out what it's all about. Again, we didn't write these. These are reviews from the internet. Wiz wrote these.

Other people, possibly Wiz Khalifa wrote. Not us. If these rhyme, it's worth a five. Here's five stars. This is the best five-star review I've ever read in my life. I cannot answer these questions honestly because I have no idea. I haven't even moved into my neighborhood yet. How about you wait until you have an opinion before you write a review?

Why did you do this? I don't know why you would write a review. And whose questions are you answering? I don't know what's going on. Here's four stars. Here we go. For a small town, it has its beauty and advantages.

You aren't worried about a rush like the big city. And even though this town continues to grow, the friendly people of Minot never fades. It can have its downfalls. For example, summer is a lot of construction work and long cold winters. It can be boring, but only if you

refuse to explore what the town has to offer yeah yeah many many beautiful gems here like the family-owned garden shop lowes garden center everything non-garden related that we can do here if you're not into gardening i'm sorry but if you're into gardening i don't want to hear you bitching because this place is a- There are some gems here. If you head over to the Home Depot Outdoor Center- Yes, the Lowe's Garden Center is literally one of the gems. I get a little nursery family.

Oh, nursery has good stuff. The Lowe's Garden Center. The hell is going on? and it's wonderful parks and events and the sunrise and sunsets are gorgeous i bet because it's it's you can see for miles so i bet it's pretty gorgeous the colors are probably amazing oh it's oranges and purples and shit it's probably awesome it's beautiful i mean yeah you would sit down and go wow this is yeah wow beautiful underneath that lowes silhouette oh that's the thing by the glow of the blue and You would sit down and go, wow, this is beautiful. Underneath that Lowe's silhouette. That's the thing.

By the glow of the blue and white of the Lowe's sign. That solid A-frame peak, James. It's beautiful. You mix that with a sunset, that's romance, everybody. Take your lady down by the Lowe's sign to watch the sunset. One-knee proposals every night. That's how it goes, babe. Liz Khalifa playing in the background.

Always. And the Biggie Tupac 10 part Netflix special movie playing, too, for Josh there. So three stars. The next one. I think the hardest part to get used to in Minot is how secluded it is. Many people in cities about this size live three, four hours from a large metro area. Minot is eight hours from a large metro area. Some people like that.

It isn't far from any kind of big city life. However, it's very expensive and time consuming to try to do any kind of traveling outside the state. You've got to fly anywhere out of this place. You can't fucking drive anywhere. It's a decent place for some lifestyles like families so if you have a family it's fine but otherwise if you're a loser if you're a loner or a drifter this is not good for you um there is a lows plenty of activities for kids to do is there like a lows ball pit or something we don't know about here. On the flip side, there's very little for young adults and singles to do. Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

Nightlife consists mostly of country bars. Most of the people that live here were born here, so they can tend to be a little clicky and sheltered. It can be hard for someone to make friends, especially if they aren't straight and white. Also, don't let what anyone says about crime scare you. Violent crime is rare here. It's rare enough that when it does happen, all the people talk about it for weeks.

Okay. All of that led me to believe that the Wiz Khalifa thing is 100% lie. There's no way it's true. I don't know. Here's one star. To top this experience off, you can't even complain to any Taurus information. To any Taurus information? I don't know what that is.

Minot doesn't have one or at least no contact to one. One good thing for sure. One good thing is for sure. Unless my son is in life or death, and this is all capital letters with six exclamation points, I'll never set foot in this godforsaken town again. Only way I'm coming back is if my son's life is threatened. Jesus. If you would think with oil workers and the base, this town would try to be as forthcoming to give one that homey feeling. Wrong.

Be warned. Be warned. There's an Air Force base here or something? Yeah, there's a big base here, and that's part of what plays into our story. So there's an Air Force base here. That's why there's people here. Is Wiz Khalifa an Air Force brat? Possibly.

He might be. He might be born here and then went somewhere else. That makes more sense. Or lived here when he was a kid for a year and a half, and they're claiming it. Who knows? I can see Josh Duhamel, his family, being like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a high and tight.

I can see that. He's a little high and tight. He seems like he's got some discipline. Oh, he's got boots on. Every movie, he's got boots on. Nice fair tactical wear boots. Exactly. They're all like the high techs.

Population here, 47,423. Really? So it's a little bit high. Yeah, that's a lot on the base, though, too, like we said. A few more males than females, which it's normally the other way around, but there's a base here, and military tends to be a little more male. Median age here, 31.8. Again, not a lot of 60-year-olds in the military, so that'll give you there. 25 to 34 is above average, you know, military age.

It's an Air Force base. About 48% are married. All the kind of divorce and all that kind of thing, they're all about average. It's kind of your average town in that respect. Race of this town, 83.8% white, 3.8% black, 1.5% Asian, 2.5% Native American, and 5% Hispanic. So I think the base probably, you know, mix up. Everybody joins the military. Sure. Religion, 55% of the people here are religious.

And the big one is the Lutherans. They're taking the top spot today. What? Well, I mean, in Minnesota, like I said, Drop Dead Gorgeous, which you won't watch. Everything's the Lutheran, Women's Lutheran Gun Club. So up there, I guess it's a Lutheran type of thing. The Catholic of the Plains? The Catholics of the Plains, the Lutherans.

The Catholics of the Snow Plains. There they are, everyone. We found a name for them. 0.0% Jewish. Let's see. The last election in Ward County, 25.8% voted Democratic, 70.7% Republican, 3.5% Independent. And the median household income here, a little bit high, $57,248, which is about $3,000 above the national average. So people are doing –

There are officers here, huh? I guess. And other people who aren't in the military too, I think. It's kind of expensive. The cost of living, as we'll talk here, not the housing though, but for everything else. The cost of living, 100 is regular in the rest of the country. Here it's about 85. So the housing is low though.

The median home cost here, $198,800, which is a lot lower than the national average. It's very cheap. Not bad at all. Now, if we've convinced you, you need some more open space and you need land, lots of land, we have for you the Minot, North Dakota, real estate report. Real Estate Report. Average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $958. So that's under the average.

Affordable. Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,156-square-foot house. It's ugly. It's very ugly. It's just ugly. It's an ugly little Um, it's, it's just ugly. It's an ugly little brown house is the best way to describe it. The carpet looks like things will rise from it and pull you into it. Like the poltergeist pulled people into a TV. Yeah.

That's what it looks like. The carpet looks absolutely disgusting. Um, you, you, before moving a box in, you'd have that whole thing torn up. Not great um kitchen

is very yellow it's not good uh ninety nine thousand dollars though two thousand square feet yeah i mean you could work with that you could you can paint and tear up a carpet and lay down some fake wood shit and it'll look great um 40 grand in that thing it's a house doing great uh here's a five bedroom four bath 5348 square foot it's a nice house it's a house doing great uh here's a five bedroom four bath 5348 square foot it's a nice house it's a beautiful house built in 1930 nice tile work the moldings are beautiful in the house it's fucking beautiful house uh 629 000 bucks for it though okay so but that's a big house 5300 square feet so many's huge. It's a goddamn huge house. Next up, five

bedroom, four bath, 5,908 square feet on 27 acres. Wow. The front porch doesn't even have a railing. It's just a big wood platform. Is that right? Yeah, it's crazy. Awesome. That you'd like throw

your kids off of when they're bad. It's just back in the day or something. No railing. We believe in ourselves here, son. It's what it is. It's really strange. There's a lot of Jesus statues in the place, which is fine. I don't think they're, like, you know, if you don't want them, it's not.

I don't think they're, like, welded to the walls or anything. They come down. There's a lot there. Maybe this house is the one that was spiked and that's why there's no railing and all these Jesus in it. I'm not sure. 27 acres though, so it's a big lot. $1,250,000 for this though. Super affordable for that much land.

If you're looking for it. Yeah, you've got 1.3. If you're looking for that, yeah, if you're looking for it. But things to do here. Oh, my God. Okay. The North Dakota State Fair. Okay.

All right. Here are the famous people that will be there. I'm going to read down this list, and you're going to go, wow, that is definitely a variety. You're telling me they can't get Wiz Khalifa? Well, Jelly Roll. Oh, that's great. Eric Church. What?

Joe Nichols. What? Whiskey Myers. I'm in. Five Finger Death Punch and Brad Paisley. Why? I hope they go back to back.

I really hope it's Five Finger Death Punch and then immediately Brad Paisley, everybody. And then Five Finger Death Punch fans murder him. From Blue on Black to checking her for tics. Let's go.

Wait. That would be some shit. That's a great show, minus the last two. Those better be the openers. Jesus, fuck. And then you have the free stages. Now, those cost money. The free stage is Chris Mabry.

I don't know who that is no darryl's racing pigs i don't know if that's a band or an actual bunch of racing pigs i'm not sure i want that to be a band i really hope that's a band this is a bunch of fat guys in dale earnhardt outfits yeah racing each other pretending they have like foam cars that are around their waist and they run and go yeah it's like they play aquabats songs yeah just like dale earnhardt that'd be amazing next an act called i flip i don't know if that's like a tumblr actor a band or what some trampolines on stage then disconnected canine why do any of this does this mean they disconnected canine. Why do any of this? Does this mean they...

Is this a dog that they've given computer powers to? I don't know. Some sort of AI animal. Yeah, some little hot dog that's going to scare the shit out of the local people. Maybe.

The Los Moralitos Circus. Oh, boy. Was there. And then the MHA Native Dancers will be there as well. So all sorts of good shit there to go to. Everybody says this is a great fair. Got to go there.

All sorts of shit. They have food contests and all that kind of thing. So sounds cool. Then there's the Ranch Rodeo. And this is just cowboys and cowgirls compete against each other in events based on typical ranch hand tasks such as trailer loading. That's what I want to watch. People load a trailer. Somebody has a lot of work.

Trailer loading. Talked him into making it a con. It's a Nathan For You thing. It's great exercise. That's exactly what it was. It's a new exercise program. Yes. Team mugging, which I've seen in the Bronx, actually.

I don't know if that translates if it's the same thing but team muggings happen right in poughkeepsie up the street there's team muggings i believe are there traveling teams for this because i feel like people on that subway will win they're gonna win probably then this one is the craziest one of all for many reasons wild cow milking now i didn't know there were wild cows. I thought the cows, we cultivated them. Thought we tamed every last one. Apparently they run free

in the fields like horses, and then you can catch up to one and milk it, which I would think milking a wild cow would really piss it off, so that seems like a really wild event. I kind of want to watch that. They probably wouldn't be happy about that. I want to see the team mugging and the wild cow milking. I really do. That I want to see. of want to watch that they probably wouldn't be happy i want to see the team mugging in the wild cow milking i really do that i want to see i want to mix those together

somebody team mugging and a wild milk cow yeah let's do it anybody that give me your milk somebody holds a gun to its head while someone else milks it carves a sir line off its side um oh this is great crime rate we're interested in here uh property crime actually slightly above average which is that i wouldn't think that i would think it would be below but it's not and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is right at average so you, you know, there's 47,000 people in here. So, you know, things are happening. That said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do it.

I think it's time. This is a crazy-ass story, too. There's a lot in here from a book that we got to give a plug to because we got a lot of info out of it. Wilder Intentions, Love, Lies, and Murder in North Dakota. Oh. Yeah. It's good stuff here. Wow.

This is a crazy goddamn story. This story, too, is a recent one. Normally, we're going to go back to 92. We're going to go back to 85. We're going to 2015 here is going to be the crux of this whole thing. So we're going to go back before that. But the whole thing comes to a big head in 2015 here. So let's talk about a couple of people.

Let's talk about Richie Edwin Wilder Jr. Oh boy. Richie Edwin Wilder Jr. He is married to at some point here, Angela Wilder is his wife. They're both about 30 years old in 2015 so they meet though when they're younger uh they meet in around 2000 when they're kids okay so um anyway here they are angela angela with an i by the way angela which is oh weird

i don't think i've ever seen that before i don don't know. I didn't even know. I didn't even think that would be an option. No. My mother's name is Angela. It's not spelled like that. No. I can see it with an A as like a goofy way to do it. Angela. Yeah, I can see that.

The point is that it's like angel, right? That's the idea. I suppose, yeah. I don't know where you get. Yeah. This looks like Angela. Yeah. And Heela Monster went to the thing.

But it's Angela. It's a mixture of the devil and angel. I don't know here. But Angela's a nice lady, though, so it's not her fault. They're both from Alabama, the Wilders. They're from Alabama. That's where they met. They met at church.

Richie and Angela meet at church in Alabama. Does she go by Angie or does she go by Angela? Angela. Angela. Yeah, Richie and Angela meet at church in Alabama. Does she go by Angie or does she go by Angela? Angela. Yeah, she goes by Angela. Angie would be great because you just cut off the LA and you got Angie. Boom, done. So maybe I'm sure people called them Angie and Richie. I don't know if she preferred it or not. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth

Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something

more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So, they were really good friends when they were kids

from church, just being kids at church that hung out together and knew each other. So, they're really good friends and Angela as a teenager has a baby. She has a baby. She gets pregnant when she's 15, 16 years old. Richie. And has a baby. No, not his gets pregnant when she's 15 16 years old richie and has a babe no

not his no they're just friends at that point okay they're just friends not his kid at all they were just friends from when they were younger uh but richie said i'd like to you know make an honest woman out of you type of you know he he uh proposed to her he said look you're pregnant you're young and um you know i'll marry you if that's a thing. And people used to think that would help. Yeah, now we're two poor people with a child. Now we're two poor, unskilled young people with a child. Great.

Now this will help a lot. Yeah, it was just one. Now we'll make it two. But it's considered a chivalrous gesture to be like, you're in trouble. I'll take care of you. That's kind of an old school mentality.'s cool but a nice gesture so she says yes she's known him forever and they get along really well so they end up getting married and uh he adopts the baby and everything what a guy he adopts the baby it's a little girl he's that's his little girl from now

on he doesn't care was this uh this is uh what 2000 uh they get they have the baby and i believe 2006 is uh when she has the baby oh no no that's when they have their baby is they're gonna get now they're gonna have a baby of their own okay so it's in high school i believe 2001 or 2 is when they get married and have the first baby. So that's how that goes. And they get along really well. Angela's sister says that she used to date guys. She liked a sense of humor. She liked a gentle, intelligent, funny guy. That's the thing she liked.

That's what she's into. And she said that that's what Richie fit all that criteria. Richie ends up, though, joining the Air Force, though, and he gets moved to Minot there. So there's a big base there. They end up in Minot, and they're newlyweds. They've been married a few years here, like a couple little kids, and he's in the Air Force, and she's got part-time jobs.

She's also going to nursing classes at the same time. She wants to be a nurse. So they're juggling and everything like that. She wanted more kids too, Angela. She wanted to have more kids. They wanted to fill the house with kids. Let's do this. Jesus.

So although Angela appeared happy, some of her friends had some misgivings about Richie a little bit. He seemed a little bit controlling and stuff like that. But they all said she was really happy. And he did what he said he was going to do. He married her. He adopted the daughter. They have another kid. He's working.

You know, he's not beating her up or anything. So they're like, I don't know what to say here. You know, listed man paying his bills. Yes, I was wrong. So the uh nobody was weird he joined the military without discussing it with anybody that was the weird thing richie just one day came home and said joining the air force and she was like pardon and he goes yep gotta go to basic training um you know blah blah blah they get stationed in minot and she just has to i guess

that's we're moving to minot now which is a big difference culturally and weather and everything else from Alabama. You don't get, it's big. And the change would be one thing if you were doing it like willingly after a long discussion, but just being told this is where you're going, it's even harder. We're going to Minot, North Dakota. I don't know if she even ever heard of Minot, North Dakota. Who knows, you know? She'd heard of it. She didn't know where the fuck it was even harder. We're going to Minot, North Dakota. I don't know if she even ever heard of Minot, North Dakota. Who knows, you know? She'd heard of it.

She didn't know where the fuck it was. Yeah. And once they get to Minot, things kind of change a little bit once they're there. Like I said, he's working, she's working, part-time jobs, kids. And the friends are, they say, I guess Richie's an okay guy. You know, it's all fine. But there's little things that happens here. He starts getting very kind of just stern with her

and mean with her about physical things, physical appearances mainly. Oh, what the fuck? Like when she was pregnant, he would always call her fat, which, yeah. You got this, dog. I got a, yeah. That's your fault, you idiot.

I got a fucking baby in there, too. There's a little more than fat to this. It's not just like a, this isn't a bunt. Yeah, it's not fat. It's an extra body's fucking blood in here. I guess it could be a bunt also if it's a baby in there and it's hanging over. It's a baby. It's a fucking baby.

Who cares? He would chastise her eating habits and all that kind of shit. Bro, it's two people. Yeah. What are you doing? Dude, you got to. This is from two people who've had two kids. Yeah.

There's four kids between us. I've been around pregnant women for this. Yeah. Whatever they want to eat, just give it to them. And as a guy that loves food, let her order too much, bro. That's yours after. Just have her sit there and push it toward her with a stick and she can do whatever she wants. She's not going to eat it all.

You're going to get more. Stay back. It doesn't matter. You'll get food. She'll be in the mood for something, but then won't want the rest of it and you'll get it. It's good. You're going to eat a lot of ice cream and onions, but give it some time. You'll like it.

I mean, yeah. Onion ice cream isn't that bad if you give it a shot after a while. So they end up joining a local LDS church. So Mormon church is what they joined. Were they Mormon in Alabama? No, no, not at all. That's the thing. They were just they were Christians, went to Christian church.

That is interesting. But they joined it. They joined the LDS out there, but he would only allow Angela to attend if her attire, you know, if her clothes met his overall approval here. He would tell her sometimes that she didn't look good enough to be seen with. What? You don't look... Well, the paperwork here says you're married, so, I mean, what are you, hiding her?

What's going on now? Explain that. You go to church alone. So, I mean, what are you hiding her? What's going on now? Explain that. You go to church alone. Hey, where's Angela? Oh, she didn't look good enough to present tonight. Ain't presenting her tonight.

Nope. Not happening. A lot of chest acne. No, thank you. Real embarrassing for me. You know how it goes. I don't want to,

I don't want to be seen with that fat pregnant belly. No, he would compare her to other women. You know how it goes. I don't want to be seen with that fat pregnant belly. No. What the fuck is he talking about? He would compare her to other women asking why she didn't do her hair or dress like the ones that he felt were more attractive than her. See, he'd go like, she's attractive. You should look more like that. Whoa.

That's ballsy, man. Wow. That's yikes. That's wild that is some some some holy shit i don't even know what to say about that that's just i don't know if i'm i'm horrified or impressed by not impressed that he would be an abusive asshole but impressed that he's like, I have no, no confidence, no care for my own well-being or physical, you know, just the just audacity and confidence that he's got. That's wild that she's just out of his mind around after that. He's out of his fucking mind. And also she started suspecting that he was cheating on her as well. It's like, well, you know, that's natural.

I think obviously if he's saying that i would suspect it too uh they had the new baby and they were happy for a minute but then it goes out of it when you're there's a certain adrenaline rush joy of the baby and then yeah after it wears off you're either really happy or you're miserable again so um he angela wrote a letter lady or letter lady a letter later letter later it's harder to wrote a letter lady or letter lady, a letter later, letter later. It's harder to say than letter lady. And, uh, that Richie had at this point began periodically physically abusing her as well. Oh, what the fuck?

Yeah. Sometimes he would hold her down. Um, uh, sometimes he would prevent her from leaving a room. At one point she said he grabbed her by the neck and held her up against a wall, said put her in a chokehold just light enough not to restrict her breathing, but enough to scare her. This relationship's over. This is not good.

No. He also had warned her a few different times that he could easily kill her using a shovel and two bags of lye. Super over. He's threatening to pull a good fella's murder on you i it's not good yeah um one night she got home from work and she approached their bedroom door and it was closed and as she was approaching she overheard richie talking in there she overheard richie say i love you okay so she came in and asked him who he had been talking to what do you think he said jimmy i'm gonna give you i love playing the the guessing game of what an asshole says what do you think

he said my rifle nope one more guess shoes i shoes. I was praying. I was praying. I say I love you, not amen. That's what he says. He goes, I'd like this to happen, protect my family, my mom, hope that lump isn't malignant on her arm, all that stuff. Thanks. I love you. Bye.

And you hang up. It's a prayer word. I will go amen if you solve the chest acne on that pig of a wife of mine. I love you. Please teach my fucking pig wife how to dress if you could, all right? I don't like her outfit. She's coming in looking like a hooah with her fucking cleavage hanging out. I don't like the way she does her hair. This is terrible.

Love you. Love you. This guy's an asshole. What a dummy. This guy's a fucking idiot uh she didn't believe it duh she became upset and wanted to leave the house for the night before everything got out of control she's like i want to take off for the night she said now she wrote at the time he got angry as i tried to leave the house he stopped me in the laundry room grabbed my throat and loosely choked me. It wasn't enough to keep me from breathing, but enough to make sure I was gasping for air.

He yelled at me, I just got my wife back and now I feel like I'm losing her again. Then spun around and punched the door in the laundry room. He blamed the medicine I was taking. What? He blamed the medicine I was taking and told me I wasn't going to take it anymore. When we got upstairs, he dumped it down the toilet. Oh, the medicine. You're not taking that medicine.

Dumped it down the toilet along with my daytime antidepressant. So you can't pull people off like that. No medication for him. He's doing great. He also went to an appointment with me and complained about the effects of the medicine on my moods at night her her medication makes me punch the door you don't understand her medication makes me want to not be attracted to her and choke her makes me call her fat and choke her it's weird i don't know why what an asshole that's a powerful lexapro wow holy shit it's got powers over people near her yeah it's crazy on uh december 21st of that year at the time i think this is 2009

i believe or 11 i'm not sure i'll find out in a minute here angela claimed that she returned home from working and that richie asked her to watch an episode of the TV series Lost and then suggested they take a bath together afterwards. So he was like, let's have a romantic evening by watching this boring show and then taking a bath. She said, awesome. This is a boring show that has been, is it 2012? This show's been off the air for like five years, hasn't it? No, no, no.

It was still going at this point. Was it on the air in 2012? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. It was still there. It was still going at this point. Was it on the air in 2012? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. It was still there. It was still going. She said, I agreed and started to get the water ready. I realized I might make the water too hot and went downstairs to see how hot Richie

wanted it. He was between the kitchen and the dining room on the cell phone. I stepped back to give him space, but then noticed another cell phone on the counter. When he realized i was standing there he quickly hung up the phone and put it in his pocket he's got a second phone he's got two phones he's got two phones which is a terrible sign if someone's not telling you they have two two phones it's for a reason oh my god he's got like a drug dealer but it's clearly for cheating on his wife. He likes meth.

He likes pussy like some people like meth. That's how he is. You get an extra phone for it. He's even got a specific predilection and everything, as we'll talk about. Oh, I can't wait. This one is just weird, man. She then said, Richie shut the door to the bedroom, then sat on the floor and asked me to sit on his lap. Huh?

He opened the phone. He said, come here, sit on my lap. I'll show you. Have a look-see. Let's have a look-see. Yeah. Okay. I saw a picture of a girl I recognized when he opened the phone.

Oh, God. Then he showed me pictures and texts that him and a woman named Sarah were sending to each other. No H, by the way, on the Sarah. Sarah was a woman that she knew that Richie previously dated before her in Alabama and like during one of their breakups and all that kind of thing. So Angela said she asked Richie why he was so eager to – because Richie – at the time, Richie was talking about maybe we'll get a divorce and all this shit and I'll move you back to Alabama. So she was wondering, oh, is it because you want to be with the Sarah chick? Is that is that what the deal is? And Richie said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't want to get a divorce and be with Sarah. I'm only engaging with Sarah. You see, this is a revenge plot that I have against Sarah. OK, Sarah fucked me over. So I'm going to get her back. Well, she said, this is Angela, quote, he said he was doing it to get back at her for all the damage she did to him from putting him in debt to giving him STDs. Jesus, which ones? The drunken rages she went into when he had to put her outside at night. Was it the Flintstones dog get to put her outside at night. Was it the Flintstones dog?

Get to put her outside? Yeah, he's got to Dino her. Yeah, she's got to Dino. Fred's banging on it after that. The messages ranged from sexual to loving. He called her pet names like sweetheart and told her she meant the world to him. He told her in a text that he would be down to Alabama in March and wanted to see her. So Angela knew.

It's all of a revenge. It's all revenge. Then I'm going to really, she's going to show up all nice, and then I'm going to dump a bucket of pig's blood on her head, and then be like, yeah, you got that right now. Ha ha. I'm getting her real hot and bothered and getting her to the airport. I'm not going to show up.

No one's going to be there to pick her up. I got Verizon involved in this just for this. But no, he said, I'm going to Alabama. Turns out Angela knew he was going to Alabama in March. So he's like, okay, well, you're not fooling her there. You're actually going there. So that's strange. Richie's brother was getting married and they had planned to attend

it uh richie promised angela though he said i'll break off everything the next day i'll you know don't worry about it i'll tell her never mind i'll i'll 86 my revenge plot okay this is the fastest the fastest lie he could come up with yeah see it's all a revenge plot he said rather go, I don't know why I have the phone, he said, look, I'll show you everything. Let me tell you why I'm doing this. Look at all these pussy pictures. I got a story for you. See, it's a flip book more of anything, really, because it's all pussy pics, but it's there.

So he's going to break things off the next day. She saw all these messages, though, and the excuses he made were kind of, you know, she didn't believe him, basically. I mean, come on. That's a far-fetched story, sir. Yeah, it's ridiculous, honestly. And so they end up, they have the kid that she had first that he adopted, the little girl. Then they have a boy as well at that moment. So they have two kids here.

They keep fighting. They get he, Richie, ends up being kicked out of the Air Force and court-martialed for domestic violence against Angela. Oh, shit. Yes, for the choking incidents that she said. Now, he also went to his superiors and was saying that she was physically abusing him and all this type of shit. And I don't know which came first,

the chicken or the egg, if one, you know. But that's what ended up happening. The goose egg on her forehead. Yeah, exactly. And everything I told you from there was from her affidavit in this matter. So this was all, you know, under oath type of shit here that she said.

I didn't know the military was taking domestic violence that serious. Now that's great. Yeah. It was 2015. If you live on, I guess I, even if you're not on base, I don't think, yeah, if you're in the military, well, if you're in the military and it's that sort of thing, I guess it's just your, they court-martialed him like instead of civilian court, he took a dead ass serious. Yeah.

So they, they kicked him out anyway of the air force. and so now they're going to fight over custody obviously because why not let's bring them involved in this we have to fight so i really like it if we're not together we have nothing to really fight over personally anymore so let's fight over the two things that mean the most to us in the world what do you say let's really destroy each other so's fight over the two things that mean the most to us in the world. What do you say? Let's really destroy each other. So they fight over custody. The final decree of divorce comes finally in May 2012. It took that long here, but that's when the custody battles became brutal, and they're just fighting over it. Each parent was supposed to get a week with the two kids, supposed to be week on, week of shit okay going back and forth 50 50 but week on week off exchanges were supposed to take place

sunday at 1 p.m yeah sunday sunday sunday uh 1 p.m yeah one uh richie was supposed to pay a small amount in child support every month that's how it was going to work so but they would still be in court while this is all going on rather than okay we figured out the main details and the kids let's just get over it they would go back to court to fight over shit like books and blankets they went to court fuck to fight for blankets think about that think about the level of petty yeah that you have to be with each other to want to fight in court over blankets. Like, I don't give a shit.

When I got divorced, I was like, I don't care. I have a garbage bag full of my underwear, and I'm happy. Fucking, I don't give a shit. I don't care. I threw the garbage bags in the back of my Jeep, and I left. Yeah, you can have whatever blanket you want. It doesn't matter to me. Is that how cold it is in the Dakotas?

Maybe. Maybe blankets are real up there. That's a real commodity there. You could die up there without that. But they're fighting over books. What books are worth? Do you have like first edition Dickens novels? Probably not.

Probably not. You're probably fighting over a paperback Grisham. Calm down. Penned by the hand of Dickens? Yeah. Or these reprints of fucking... Just on yellow legal pads from back then you know yellow legal parchment it's easy ridiculous so they're fighting and over blankets and books and all that kind of shit um it's it's ridiculous so what and he she says that it tells her family

that he's like he harasses her. He makes her feel uncomfortable, calls too much. You know, that sort of thing. One day her sister said she got a frantic call from Angela and her sister was like, Jesus Christ, calm down. And Angela said, it's Richie. I just woke up, came out of my bedroom, went into my living room and he's sitting on my couch. What? Came out of my bedroom, went into my living room, and he's sitting on my couch.

What? He just broke in and looked at me and said, see, I told you I can get to you if I wanted to. And then he left. Oh, my God. That is creepy. That's horrifying. Terrifying. Yeah.

This is your safe space. This is it's fucking ridiculous. So she told her sister, he's just fighting me all the time. It's just been really hard. You know, this is crazy. And they end up, too, they start new relationships with different people. And they still continue to fight, even though they're both in relationships. Yeah, Angela, she finds an old high school sweetheart named Christopher Jackson. She went out with him.

And it's not his kid, the first kid. Just a guy she went out with before that. From Alabama? From Alabama, yeah. But he moves up here. Oh, that's nice. They both end up in Minot. Now, for Richie, he finds a younger woman, a 22-year-old young lady named Cynthia Louise Becker.

She's like 5 foot tall, 98 pounds, by the way, too. She's a tiny, tiny little thing here. So by the end of 2013, Richie and Cynthia end up getting married. They have a new baby daughter. Oh, God. And Christopher and Angela end up getting engaged, and they have a baby son. Great. Moving on.

Everybody should be wiping. Everyone's got the blankets that they have a baby son. Great. Moving on. Everybody should be wiping. Everyone's got the blankets that they fucking want. Good. Everybody got their favorite book. Did you get that? Did you get your James Patterson novels from the thing? Okay. Everybody got your Hardy Boys collection?

Good. Okay. Perfect. Excellent. You got the Afghan your grandmother knitted. We're all happy everybody's fucking to your neutral corners please please this punt let's do it so cynthia louise becker wilder she becomes his wife here she's a kindergarten teacher okay so yeah she

seems you know sweet and small and kind she's small and sweet and kind and all that kind of thing. So they have a child, like we said. Now, Christopher and Angela, they had met when they were younger, dated on and off during their high school years, but had only kind of early 2013 had kind of come back into each other's orbits. Thank you, Facebook. And that's Facebook. Facebook plays such a big part in this case. Oh, I guarantee it does. You have no fucking idea.

Of course it does. Facebook solves a lot of this case. Really? Which is crazy, yes. Well, it got these two together, I guarantee it. Getting high school people back together for years. That's what Facebook is now. I've never messaged anybody that I used to go out with in high school people back together for years i have never is now i've never messaged anybody that i used to go out with in high school but i swear to god i've gotten every single girl i went out with

in high school has sent me not like hey you want to fuck but like just like hey how's it going you know a message from high school i'm like why would you message me like i guarantee you james it starts there and then meanders into hey hey, do you want to fuck? That's how it starts. I've never answered any of them, but that's- That's the requirement to get to that point. If we broke up in the 10th grade, what makes you think I want to be hanging out with you now? In 1996, I said, I'm done with this.

Why now? 2014? Sure, let's chat. Nope. Nope. I'm good. Haven't seen you in as many years as I was alive at the time that I last talked to you. Yeah.

That's the thing. And some of them were even before the podcast. Jesus. I was a fucking, you know, just a loser comic. No name fucking comic. Now I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Anyway, yeah.

If I get anything now. But they all used up all their messages a long time ago. I treat my family like that. Good. You should. Like an ex-girlfriend from the 11th grade. You've used up your messages long ago, people. Stop it.

We're all done now. So Christopher and Angela, like i said they dated they did all this shit after angela divorced she traveled back to alabama for a visit yeah they reconnect and um when they re when they quote reconnect a few weeks later angela finds out they reconnected very very hard like boy hard enough for a sperm to crash into an egg and go into it that hard that's how very good reconnection and she's pregnant with his child so that's why christopher packs up moves out up to minot hey what a guy i got a kid up there here so stand up alabama boy to be with angela and their son who was born later that year and um to be with Angela and their son who was born later that year.

And Christopher, as it goes on here, once we get to 2015, she's going to get pregnant again. She's going to have a miscarriage and then get pregnant again in later 2015. So, yeah, she wants kids, a lot of kids, Angela. She really does. And they had a nice life, Christopher and Angela. She worked at a bakery at a grocery store for a while when he first came there. But then she began nursing school at Minot State University. Right.

And now she's got the kids and she's got two kids. She's got nursing school. She's pregnant. She's got a job. Oh, she's busy. There's a lot going on. Christopher gets a job working the overnight shift at walmart oh that's what's that's what he could find up there that's what's available

there's like outdoor work up there you know you can you know work seasonal type shit construction that sort of thing or the military or the college or wal. That's kind of, or the grocery store, because she works at a grocery store, he works at Walmart. And there's other little jobs and shit, but these are the main, these are the things you can openly apply for whenever. Yeah, and if she's working in the grocery store probably during the day and he's working Walmart at night,

you cross fucking ships in the night and you're caring for the children as you go. And that's what they're doing. It's maintenance of life that they're trying to do. He'd be home during the day while she went to school that way you know they wouldn't they could save money on daycare someone's always always home so uh christopher was excited once she's pregnant after the miscarriage for a second child she's very very he's very excited uh problem is richie and angela are still fighting. Why? That's the thing.

Why? You have your blankets. I don't understand this shit. Everything's done. Everything's done. We're managing over here. It's already stressful enough. Chris said he tried hard not to get involved.

He didn't want to get involved in this. It's your ex, and you want to let them have the space. But he said it started to really impact Angela's like emotional well-being he said at first he yelled at both of them he told both of them to stop acting like he literally said stop acting like fucking children and act like adults this is about your kids you're divorced

who cares you stop being a dick and you shut the fuck up too he was you know a fair thing he said quote I said to Angela this is two people who got married because they loved each other. But now communication is broken down so bad that you can't even see each other and you have to communicate through emails. Fair. Very fair.

Christopher's being very adult. But eventually, though, Christopher became convinced that it's Richie's the one who's doing this. It's Richie's the nudge. And he thinks Angela is just kind of having to go along with it. And he's hurt that a woman moved on. That's what it is. Yeah, but so you moved on too. I could see sitting there in a trailer by yourself, and no one will talk to you, and you're seething.

You found some 22-year-old chick who's cute and nice. What do you give a fuck what they're doing? How does their happiness take away from yours? Right. And you clearly tried to hurt her by getting somebody younger and what you deem as hotter. So fucking just go be happy. The world would be an amazing place if people would realize that the happiness pie is not sliced. It's so big.

It's not sliced. And if you get some, I don't get any. Also, you can, we can both be happy. Like you don't need someone else to be miserable for you to be happy. That's a weird, that's really weird.

Why, why would you thrive based on somebody being upset? What, what does that fucking matter to you? It's, it's really strange. Your pie tastes better with somebody else crying in theirs. Somebody else's tears in my pie.

I don't really want a tear pie. That's gross. So it's shitting in the pie at that point. So he said he understood why Angela didn't want to be married to Richie in the first place. And he felt that Richie was conniving and he's kind of a controlling guy. And he likes to manipulate when we're picking the kids up, we're doing this and he likes to kind of be he likes to manipulate the situation so november of 2015 angela's pregnant here she finds out she's pregnant in october she's going to nursing school and i guess she's got some illness with this pregnant with this pregnancy and the fact that

she had a miscarriage in the beginning of the year. She said she really wants to be careful with this pregnancy and not nervous. She doesn't want to push herself physically. So she talks to her teacher and her teacher tells her for this nursing class, you know, you have to show up when you can. But if you can't, I understand you can call me ahead of time and we can work out something where you can work at home. And, you know, she understands. I mean, she's trying not to have a miscarriage.

It's understandable. That teacher is brilliant. You're about to go through a lot of that in about four years. Yeah, you got some shit coming up here. A lot of arrangements going to be happening. So one day, November 13th here, she doesn't show up this day for her exam at 11 o'clock, and she didn't call ahead of time or anything.

So this has not happened in the two weeks or so, two to three weeks since she's found out she's pregnant. Any day she can't make it, she calls ahead of time. There's an arrangement. That's how it works. Today she doesn't show up at 11 o'clock in the morning for an exam. Call no-shows? Yeah. Which is a big deal, and she was taking this class very seriously.

And the teacher was like, that's unlike her. That's really weird. She's not working at this point, too, because she wants to take it easy physically while she goes to school. Yeah. As soon as she found out she was pregnant, I think she quit her job at the grocery store. And she wants to concentrate on the nursing program, too. grocery store and she wants to concentrate on the nursing program too. So November 13th, the night before the 12th going into the 13th, find out why she didn't show up. Christopher said he woke up from his nap on that night of the 12th at around in 2015 at

around 8 p.m. He woke up because he does overnight. So he gets home, probably takes a little nap while she gets ready for school and then watches the kids all day. She comes home. He takes another little nap and then goes to school. He probably sleeps and shifts. Yeah, because that's brutal. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to

grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery+. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So she said that Angela, I'm sorry, Christopher said that Angela served him a spaghetti and meatballs dinner

in bed. She came and brought him spaghetti and meatballs in bed. Which is, that's wonderful. Hell yeah. That's wonderful. That's wonderful stuff there. There was some Texas toast with that. I'm sure there was.

Maybe a little garlic powder and butter on it. Some little garlic bread action. You can make some real good quick garlic bread. You can. You really can. You can do wonders with it. He finished his dinner. He got in the shower, got ready for work.

Angela dropped him off at work at about 10 p.m. That's what he works, 10 p.m. I think to 6 a.m. So he received a message from her a few hours later, though, saying she was scared. He's like, well, scared of what? She said she was hearing noises from outside their front door. I'll be right home. Which, yeah, your pregnant, scared wife is there. And Christopher told her everything's okay. front door i'll be right home which yeah your pregnant scared wife is there and christ christopher

told her everything's okay it's probably a cat or a dog or you know it's probably an animal we let it's north dakota it could be anything really i mean it could be smugglers we don't know calm down he's been going through this for several years too with this yeah so he said yeah just you know calm down um he said that everything's okay. And as the night went on, she was texting him or sending him messages saying – talking about her schoolwork and stuff. So she had moved past being scared, was talking about her studies and things like that. She said she was going to try to get some rest before she had to pick him up at 7 a.m. the next morning and then she had an exam. So she was studying for the exam.

So it's a tough – they're the exam. So it's tough. They're making it work, but it's hard. So he said he took his first break around midnight, and then he says he took his lunch at about 2 a.m. This is what he says. He said he missed a call from her after that, but when he called, she never answered. No answer. So he figured, oh, good.

She fell asleep. Good. Okay. That's good. So Christopher, she never shows up to pick him up in the morning. So he waits outside, waits outside. Eventually, he flags down. There's a few cabs that wait for the shift ends at Walmart because some of the employees need cab rides home.

So there's a couple cabs that know to wait there and maybe they'll get a fare. So he grabs one of the cabs and takes it home. It's a quick ride. It's a few minutes home. So he gets home. He knocked on the door in the window. He said she never came to the window.

He said, so I walk around the back and the door is open. Door's open and looks like it's been kicked in. Like there's, you know, the wood from the frame is broken and you can tell when a door's been kicked in. It's not clean. So he said, immediately I thought something was wrong. Well, no shit. That'll do it.

That'll do it. Damn good indicator, Chris. He calls 911 and says, I just arrived at my house and my door's open. My two-year-old and my pregnant wife are inside. Okay. Now, I'm going to just say this. Who in the God's fuck doesn't rush in at that point? Yeah.

You see the door open. You go, oh, my God, my two-year-old and my pregnant wife are in there. And you look for something sharp and heavy just in case someone's in there. Where's my bat? Where's the butcher knife? Something. Yeah. And then you rush the fuck in there looking to make sure people are okay.

That's what you do. I was just going to say, what are you, a tainter? I only had a flashlight and a gun. Wasn't enough to go in there. I mean, this vest, I'm not sure how good it is. I mean, shit. Let a woman die for all I give a fuck. That was crazy.

I think I may be ripping the door the rest of the way out. Grab a shard of wood, anything. Anything. You are grabbing the nearest lethal object and you're running down that hallway. That's just, you wouldn't even think about it. You would just by God, I go protect my fucking family. That's just what people do. Anybody would do that man or woman.

You'd fucking be like, I got to go see what's going on in there. He didn't know he stayed outside and he the dispatcher told him stay outside until police arrive. Don't go in. Don't cause a scene. Yeah, I guess. Because they're not. Their thing is let's not, you know, I'm not going to tell a civilian to go run in the, you know, whatever. But I don't know.

Either way, he stays outside. He said that, you know, the police came in. They go in the house. And he's milling around outside. And he said that, you know, no one's telling him anything. And there's tons of people everywhere and they wouldn't let him go inside. It's like, oh, now you want to go inside. Yeah. Now there's guys with guns here you want to go in?

Yeah. He heard the cops kick down an interior door as well. He heard a door get boom, get kicked off the hinges here. The door get boom, get kicked off the hinges here. He, Chris claimed to both the 911 dispatcher and the officers who arrived there that he never entered the house. He said, I never went in the house. I didn't set foot in the house. He said, even after seeing the back door kicked in and he, by the way, yelled, Angela.

Yeah. Kid, whatever the kid, Angela, anybody. Yeah. Unborn baby fetus. I don't care. And nobody answered. And so that's when he stayed outside, which is, I can't even fathom that. So they said that the detectives all amongst themselves said, they got in a group and said, let me ask you something.

Frank, whoever the fuck, you come home. Your kid and your pregnant wife are inside. Your door is kicked in, and you yell for them, and nobody answers. You going inside there? And they go, wild fucking horses couldn't stop me from going in there. Yeah. Wild unmilked cows couldn't stop me. Yeah. Jonathan Ogden couldn't block me from getting through that fucking doorway.

I swear to God. Him and Anthony Munoz next to each other. Josh Duhamel couldn't stop me. With them running interference, couldn't stop my ass from getting in there. You kidding me? And so they were like, right away... This is so much fun. This is crazy.

Right away they're like, we're a little shady with Christopher here. That just doesn't seem like a plausible story. It doesn't seem plausible at all. So they said, why didn't you go there? They asked him, Chris, why didn't you rush in the house even before calling? I could see. How about call 911 as you're rushing in there?

Hey, I'm running into this house right now. That way if you're murdered, at least it's on tape. Yeah. Whatever. But he said, something in my stomach said not to, was his quote. Huh. They said, quote, even though your child's in there and your fiance is in there. Yeah.

What about the thing in her stomach? It's everything short of calling him a pussy they did at this point. Like, you don't think it's kind of a punk move. Yeah. I was like, he says i know it seems hard to understand but in my mind i was wondering if both of them were gone or worse what's worse well then gone like had taken been kidnapped or something or worse meaning dead either way might you want to check on that and find out like i get that people once adrenaline's rushing and in emergencies people

have different responses but that's a terrible response i don't think yeah even if there's a bloodbath in there uh and and the guy is and whoever whoever did it is still there i'm lucky to be alive is not something i want to say standing on the footsteps yeah i'm saying the steps of my own house while everybody in my house is dead. Is dead. Or gone. We don't even know at this point. So the cop then says to him, to me, I mean, if I was in your shoes, I'd go right in the house and I wouldn't care what I saw because my child was in there.

Right. He said, I know, but that's not what I did. Chris. I mean, Jesus Christ. said i know but that's not what i did chris i mean jesus christ so uh according to christopher he said that um you know he said once everything was going on he realized that she was probably dead inside once he saw what the cops were doing and everything he said an ambulance comes and the guys go in and they come back out and they were wiping down equipment and all these fucking wires and still no Angela. Yeah.

And shutting off sirens and not taking not going fast and making it's taking it slowing the whole thing down. So they looking at her. This is what they find here. She's on the floor. She's covered in blood. There is blood everywhere. By the way, two-year-old just fine in the next room. Absolutely untouched, sleeping soundly,

fucking like an angel, the two-year-old, and fine in the next room. Absolutely unharmed completely. Angela, though, far from unharmed. Covered in her own dried blood. Blood spatter everywhere. Pools of blood. It looks like five people had a knife fight in here and everybody lost.

Like, that's what it looks like in this room. It's it is insane. They said right away they could see her face, neck and upper left chest area were riddled with cuts and stab wounds, as well as superficial puncture wounds just brutalized. They said that there's a cut or a stab wound to the back of the head, the place where the neck joins the head. Oh, Jesus God. And then the back of the right shoulder area over the muscle called the trapezius muscle and two stab wounds in the trapezius muscle uh behind the right ear where the cartilage of the ear joins the skin of the head there's a superficial stab wound and the wound stab wound to the back of the head and neck area

uh goes down to the bone of the skull oh my god my God. Just attacked from the back? What kind of chicken shit? They said that it hit her skull but had not plunged the blade deep enough to reach the brain. But the stab wounds in the back of the trapezius area actually penetrate into the muscle to the depth of three or four inches. Good Lord.

So they said there are stab wounds with a cutting component present on the right side of the face, the right side of the lower neck area. Those also penetrated into the neck. The stab wound tracks sort of merge with other tracks and created injuries to the muscles and organs deep within the neck. There are 44 stab wounds in her. Oh, dear Lord. 44 concentrated around the head, neck, and upper left area of her torso.

Very personal. They said that in a short amount of time, the air seeping in from the open wound would go directly to the heart. And they said this makes the heart go into arrhythmia and disturbance and would stop beating after that. to arrhythmia and disturbance and would stop beating after that. They said her jugular vein was punctured and she would have been dead within minutes anyway. Yeah. But there's more stab wounds after that. Oh, good Lord. The right shoulder, there's two, what the medical examiner will call two peculiar non-lethal

stab wounds, appeared to have entered in an upward direction. Oh. Which is strange. She also had a deep cut on the outside of her left index finger and a small slice on the inside of her left ring finger. So they said that these, it indicates that she likely had her arms up in a protective position trying to fend off the attacker.

Okay. So yeah, arms up in a protective position trying to fend off the attacker so yeah she'd been uh cut and stabbed at least 13 times on the face neck and chin fuck one of them slicing through the muscle protecting the thyroid gland and puncturing the thyroid gland itself they said this would be a lot of blood loss also um jesus this is terrible. There's so much. The multiple stab wounds on her left front chest were clustered so closely together that the medical examiner said that they couldn't. He couldn't even discern which direction they had entered from because they're so close together. They've been really in there. He said the knife, though, plunged three to four inches deep into her chest and shoulder over a dozen times.

And they said it seemed like there was definitely looking for the heart, trying to stab the heart, which is wow. They said among the chest wounds, at least three of them would have been fatal. There were two punctures in the lungs. Lungs also was a wound that went underneath the collarbone, and it cut a major artery. The axillary artery goes all the way down the left arm if you cut that artery you can lose a lot of blood very quickly yeah i guess so holy shit um they said

that it was clear that there was a ton of blood loss in a short amount of time and that she would have died very quickly through this and probably not suffered for very long because it was such a brutal attack. So there was that anywhere. One part, though, her stomach is left completely alone. Really? The baby, of course, it's very, very nascent, this pregnancy. So the baby does not survive, obviously. But she is the fetus.

Not the target, obviously. No, no. Clearly, it was actually avoided, it looks like, which is, uh, the fetus. No, no. A clearly was actually avoided. It looks like, which is interesting. Huh? That's an interesting, uh, you know, psychological thing there. So the cops would love to have a chat, chit chat with Chris. Yeah.

Cause I mean, he talks a lot about the ex husband and he's crazy and all this shit, but you didn't fuck Chris. You didn't run in there. The fact that the baby you know the fetal compartment wasn't stabbed up like that your own baby that upstairs is completely completely unharmed so they're like this is interesting so they look at him now first of all in his interview it's a videotaped you know interrogation like you know tons of the ones on youtube probably is on youtube who knows so i didn't look actually because i have the whole thing you know transcripts kind It's a videotaped interrogation like tons of the ones on YouTube. Probably is on YouTube.

Who knows? So I didn't look actually because I have the whole thing, transcripts kind of thing. So he is pacing the room, talking on the phone to her sister, to Angela's sister. That's who he's on the phone with. No, she's in Texas, I believe. The siblings are spread around. Yeah, so talking to her on the phone while he's in the interview room

pacing back and forth waiting for the cops to come talk to him. He says, quote, Richie is probably the fucking piece of shit who did it. God, I fucking hope they piece it to him. I fucking hope so, he screamed into the phone.

So they ask him about the door specifically. And he said, well, the door was kind of fucked up. The door was fucked up because he had messed it up the week before. So that's why the door would have been easy to kick in. They said, well, what happened? He said, well, the door wouldn't open. It was like jammed or something the week before. So he said, so being a smartass, I went over there and kicked it in.

Then spent the next week trying to repair it myself until we could get the money up to buy another one. Repaired the frame? I repaired it. He said he hadn't replaced the door yet, but he did replace the locks and the door was still functional. It just didn't look great so that's interesting they asked him did you ever hit angela he said not once in any single day that we have ever dated or been together they said no would have been fine no would have been fine usually yeah the oj simpson absolutely positively 100 not guilty is a bad sign very extravagvagantly saying no.

Cops look at that and they're like, you could have just said no. They don't even like it when you don't use contractions. If you say, I did not do that, they're like, how often does that person say did not? Who talks like that? Seem like a didn't kind of guy. That's what they say. So they said, did she ever hit you and he said oh yeah he said oh yeah yeah he said definitely um they said did she ever use any kind of weapon

bat club or anything when she hit you he said oh yeah yeah he said no she hit me she didn't hit me with it luckily i was a little bit faster so um yeah now they asked him when angela brought up breaking up in october 2015 did you want to do that it comes out that they've been having some problems and she was talking about leaving him um he said no there's been a lot of times we've brought up breaking up as an ultimatum or just to get the other one's attention, but it's never been serious. So that's not great. The cop said, so that was a weapon? And he said, oh, yeah.

You don't want to get into physical violence or anything like that. Usually words are all you got, bluffs and stuff. And whenever that failed, I'd usually get chased out into the garage for about five hours or so. Say again? Yeah, exactly. Five hours he'd hang hang out wait for this to blow over oh boy that's rocky so the cop said so i am to gather then that you both said things to each other that you didn't necessarily mean to and the cop didn't even finish the sentence before christopher said tons we're from alabama don't you understand he then said you could write 18 bibles just not as holy with some of the words we've said to each

other wow you've been together for like five years you're talking biblical already i know it's not even jesus is that what he said don't reunite with your high school sweethearts is what this says so what number how many bibles 18 bibles you could fill that's a that's a fucking wild number that you just chose sir you could write 18 but not 16 not 20 not 17 not two not even you could write a whole bible just it's a big book. 18 Bibles. But that's all it was, just words. When it came down to the end of the day, there was never any actions behind it. So he said it's ridiculous to think that we were physical.

We did argue. Now the cops say, well, he's forthcoming about this anyway. He's jumping in. Oh, yeah, we talk mad shit to each other, which, you know, he's being honest. That's good. But at the same time, to what end? To just divulge to people. So they're like, let's grab a polygraph on old Chris here and see how he does on that. So they give him a polygraph test.

They ask him the same questions pretty much they asked him in the interview. And not one – by the way,opher does not have one detail different from the story he told the day before yeah which is a good sign consistent story and he passes the lie detector test what the fuck is so that's interesting now once the cops clean up everything they don't clean it up they just get angela out of there and take down their tape um chris has to come back there to live because he has nowhere else to go he's got a he's got a two-year-old his family doesn't live in minot he's got nowhere to go and he's got a job at walmart he's got to get to like

he's got a two-year-old that just lived through this oh absolutely he's got a deal to this yep it's it's fucked so yeah he said christopher they had to return to the home they had very little money and um the police had not even told him the details of how she'd been killed yet he said but he was back in the house remnants of it all over the house there's blood stains all over the bedroom oh my god he said he mostly kept the door to the room closed and locked but at night he said he would sit in the bedroom and try to piece together his own theories based on the blood. Oh, my. That's, that's, I don't even know what to say about that.

That's a choice. He said, because whenever I got home, whenever I'd put our son to sleep, I'd stay in the room and try to figure it out. Yikes. I mean, because what else are you going to do all night? Your brain's racing. He said. Detective just came out. There's. I mean, because what else are you going to do all night? Your brain's racing. He said. Detective just came out. There's a lot of, yeah.

Well, by then, everybody thinks they're a forensic expert. Everybody's, you know, Christopher Maloney at this point. So he says Christopher, he had first looked at the bloodstains on the bed and said she must have been surprised in her sleep is what he said he thought. He said it looked like where two blood pools were about where her neck would be where she would be lying on the bed is what he said. He said looking around he could see blood spatter on the walls, the office chair, and the computer screen next to the bed. the computer screen next to the bed. He wondered if Angela was stabbed in the stomach, he said, because a lot of her large amount of blood in the room

and there's a lot of blood around, you know, a fetus. So they said the majority of the blood had been on, you know, the pooled up everywhere. So they question him again. They also have him turn over his electronic devices, and

he does. His story never changes. That's the thing about this. That's huge. His story is consistent. Consistent story is big because it's – unless you really write it down and practice it ahead of time, it's hard to say this – to be consistent with a lie. It's just hard. Nobody has that good after a while. So they were like, hold on.

You were talking to this person and that person. So they said, did you hire anyone to kill Angela? And they also said in November, had your fights gotten so bad that you wanted to end Angela's life? And did you want Angela dead? And he says no to all these things. So the family, though, is talking. They're questioning Christopher. The detectives are questioning Christopher.

And they're, lie detector or not, they don't like what they're seeing here from him in any of his actions. He's talking to another woman. They were about to break up. He didn't go in the house. They were like, lie detector or not, they don't like what they're seeing here from him in any of his actions. He's talking to another woman. They were about to break up. He didn't go in the house. They were like, lie detector or not, those three things are pretty good signs and pretty good evidence that I don't like. A lot of times the significant other does it with all those things involved. Exactly. Yeah.

Very common. They've seen it before if you're a homicide detective. You've seen these things. If you're a homicide detective, you've seen these things. So I can I smell this before. They said, though, her family is calling constantly. Angela's family is calling the detectives saying that, you know, they're like, listen, we think that you need to look at other people. You need to look at Richie. Richie's the guy you got to look at.

He's the ex-husband. He's been violent in the past. He's been volatile in the past. And, you know, they said the thing that happened that got him discharged from the Air Force, the sister said, quote, he tried to kill her. He beat the hell out of her. They had her move off of the base. She would call me every day, all hours of the day, telling me all the details of Richie beating her. No one believed off of the base she would call me every day all hours of the day

telling me all the details of richie beating her no one believed her and now she's dead that's what the sister said yikes so they also uh told the police that social services and military personnel had not believed angela's story that she was the victim of abuse um and not the other way around because richie was going to them saying that not only was Angela hitting him, Angela was beating their daughter, the two-year-old. Was slapping her around and shit. But Angela would send pictures to her family of her bruises. Bruises on her eye, neck, jawline, and all that kind of shit. You do that to yourself.

And then send it to your family. But the sister doesn't have the pictures anymore, she says.'s been several years it's been a few years yeah it's been like six years at five years at this point three years whatever so she um you know linda said her sister went through hell um and the cop said you keep saying richie but is there anyone else you think we should be looking at and the sister said no not at all they said any way you think we should be looking at? And the sister said, no, not at all. They said, any way you think Christopher could be involved? And she said, absolutely not. I know in my heart Christopher is innocent. I just know it.

So the police, they have to sit down with Richie here. Richie, boy, what happened, buddy? What's going on here? So they get a hold of Richie to, you know, check out what his reaction is to all this. to you know check out what his reaction is to all this and um they they said uh you know hey your wife's been your ex-wife's been murdered and uh blah blah blah and he says oh really they said he just acted like he didn't give a flying fuck about it just didn't care he's like well that's a shame the thing is dude you've got you got kids with this woman you've got to care yeah obviously that's you have to so they knocked on his door as you richie yeah that's me they said they told him what was up at the time cindy was

at work teaching kindergarten at lewis and clark elementary school a few blocks away they said there's been an incident this morning at the residence of your ex-wife and he said yeah i know i received a few text messages about it. My wife, Cynthia, dropped the kids off and blah, blah, blah. So they said, have you checked on your ex-wife? And he says, no. How did I do that? I heard she was dead.

Yeah, I don't care. I heard there was something going on. That's her problem. He said that he had gotten several messages from people and had read a news report stating there was a suspicious death at the residence and that he had promised his upset daughter that he would figure out what was happening you know the girl that he adopted there so he didn't try to they said he said he didn't try to contact angela to find out if she was okay and he didn't call anybody else either he just said i'll take care of it but he never did that was ugly it was revealed later through data searches on his cell phone and

computer while everyone else was making all sorts of phone calls trying to find out what was going on commiserating with each other um and all that kind of thing he at that moment was spending several hours viewing Asian pornography videos. Attaboy. So that's what he's into. They show that he also received a message from his coworker, Bethany Iverson, about sending a link to a news report of the death at the home and said, quote, I guess you'll have an easier time getting full custody now. Leave me alone. I'm busy. quote i guess you'll have an easier time getting full custody now which is cold busy yeah he's whacking it to asian porn and he's like hold on but god damn it jesus christ i guess about child

support right now yeah no matter how much you hate your ex-wife no matter if i hated my ex-wife and someone said i guess you'll have a easier time getting full custody when she was just murdered i'd still be like hey fuck you that's not cool just happened today it's my kid's mother man that's fucked up you know they're gonna be sad yeah the kid's crying right now thanks a lot assholes so uh but also true yeah obviously yeah but my kid's upset but kid's upset so they said that um he didn't tell the detectives though that he'd been looking at porn all morning. No, I mean, why would you? He said that he figured Angela was faking a scene.

That's what he figured. He said, my wife first went to the school and dropped my daughter off. She said there were police cars out there. No offense to my ex-wife. I just assumed it was her playing games in a sense. No offense to my ex-wife. I just assumed it was her playing games in a sense. Like I was kind of expecting to get a phone call or the cops to come to my house to accuse me of something or investigate something. Does that make sense? Or he says that at the end of everything with the cops is his. Does that make sense? And they always say no. And then he just keeps going. I love that. The cop goes, no, you have to explain to me why you got that vibe because I don't know you guys well enough is what the cop said. He said, oh, sorry, Richie says there. Oh, sorry, just from the past.

Like, was it she called social services quite a bit, says that we were doing this or that. And social services, they come over and the police come over and investigate and um but they talked to us and the kids and then they didn't go anywhere okay so that doesn't tell me anything and his sentences have no there's no flow here there's no narrative it's just it's a lot of like stilted sections of something chunks of information just mushed together yeah chunks of information that aren't necessarily germane to each other so he says uh he said that he had an alibi they said well where were you he said i was home in bed i got home after 11 o'clock from work um you know

i was in bed my kids woke up in the middle of the night a few times and my wife was home with me in bed. She can verify where I was so I can ask her. I was fucking sleeping next to her. The kids got up. I didn't get up for them. Cynthia would and she knows I was there. Because I'm an asshole so I sleep. I'm sleeping. I'm going. I go hey kids are crying

and I go back to sleep. You know they've handled that. I'm trying to sleep. Another thing he does, he likes to use big words that he can't pronounce, which is awesome. That's fun. What's up, guys? That's amazing. Yes, tell me more. This idiot using big words he can't pronounce, and he doesn't give a shit.

And everything he does is talking. Nothing's a straightforward answer also, and it's a lot of bullshit. What does he say? What are the words? It's going to be good. I'll get to this here. He was disparaging, though, of Angela, of course, of his ex. Yeah, he said that she was bipolar, capable of snapping at any given moment,

and that she had no problem going after someone who wronged her. Oh, she's dead. going after someone who wronged her. Oh, she's dead. The last email that Angela sent to Richie was the morning before her murder, so the morning of the 12th of November there. And this was a link to an article titled 11 Telltale Signs Dad is a Narcissist.

Okay. Nice work, Angela. 11 telltale signs dad is a narcissist okay nice work angel he tells the cops this as like she's breaking my balls he said he says though it's an article 11 telltale signs dad is a narcist because he doesn't know that's he called it a narcissist. She said I'm a rat. Do you hear it? A narcissist. I go, hey, I never ratted on nobody in my entire fucking life, pal. All right. I ain't no snitch on stool pigeon.

Don't call me that. I ain't no stoolie. A narcissist. A narcissist, he tells her. A narcissist. narcissist oh that's wonderful she sent me this buzzfeed article about why i rat on people i was like this bitch you bitch you don't know what you're talking about he said i read the article uh i just put i'm glad you found an article describing you, your dad, and your mom. Oh, for God's sake. I know you are, but what am I? Grow up, sir.

You fucking idiot. He said, maybe you can use it as a guideline to change. I doubt it, but good luck. She wrote back, it was to help you improve things with Amy, which is not the kid's real name, but the name that this book gives her. Stop taking everything as an attack. When they get older, if you don't improve, they won't talk to you anymore. So stop attacking me and actually read it, especially the last paragraph about the daughter and dad. That's the main point.

There's a part in there that's directly aimed at your face. Yeah, and it was, too. So she was mad. face yeah and it was too so she was mad um she said so the intention was she said that he was wanted her him to reflect a little bit on his behavior and um he said though it was angela who needed the help not him she's trying to help me but she's the one who needed help um he said they thought she had bipolar or a borderline personality disorder is what he tells the cop. So the detect, the detective said, who is they that thought that exactly the right question.

Tell me more. And, uh, he says social services, they kept trying to test and, uh, it kept going, coming, it kept going non-conclusive. And then the, and, and then the Bishop from our church at that time, what's he going to diagnose her now? Yeah, please. Please have some fucking religious guy tell me what my mental problem is. Borderline satanic is what I think. Sounds like what you need is more Jesus and more tithe and that'll fix everything.

Less Satan would be my advice. Fucking ridiculous. So he said he would like to help her with that. He didn't say. He wasn't diagnosing her. He was being a nice guy. He actually just said he wanted to help her with everything that was going on. He was being a good guy.

So they said, so then social services dropped away from it. So that's his big story. She kept testing for borderline. It came back nonconclusive. And then the bishop said he'd help her. And then that was that. So the detectives were trying to find any information with regards to the supposed borderline personality diagnosis and couldn't find anything in any files. Anything.

And any of her medical shit. Right. That would be some psychologist or that would be in somebody files, anything. And any of her medical shit. Right. That would be some psychologist or that would be in somebody's paperwork somewhere. Did you see a therapist at all for this? If not, a fucking social worker doesn't walk into your house and ask you questions and then tell you that you're bipolar. No, and even social services are borderlines, even harder to diagnose. It's a little more tricky. It hides.

Sure. And this is a social services person. So they definitely would have a report of what they said and did. They wouldn't say, I medically diagnosed her. So I got this. Right in her living room. He then says, quote, her parenting style and my parenting style are completely different. Hers is more manipulative and things to that nature.

completely different. Hers is more manipulative and things to that nature. So then he was, yeah, he was saying that, you know, he couldn't get any specific examples of this. Everything was just kind of generalizations. And he said, you know, it's kind of like yesterday. It was kind of nice because his daughter that he adopted here kind of chooses sides. Like she wants to please one parent and wants to please the other. So like yesterday, she finally sits down to talk to me and goes, I don't know who to believe because like I'll say one thing and her mom says one thing and it's completely different.

And so, you know, that's kind of one of those. He's just kind of trails off a lot. Yeah, you dildo. You're you're involving the child in your beef with your ex-wife. So then they say, can you answer why on the day before the murder would the daughter tell Richie that Angela thought Cynthia was stalking her at work? She did. That's what mom said. They said, can you think of anybody that would want to cause harm to Angela?

And he said, not off the top of my head. She can be hard to get along with, and she likes to threaten people, though. So I don't know. But I mean, I could see anybody wanting to kill her is basically what he said. So the cop says, what do you mean? Like, what does that mean exactly here? And then they say, hey, there's a scratch on your face. Oh, it's a Richie.

And he says, yeah yeah it's from my son and they said okay how'd that happen and by the way when my kids were under three they are dude i had bruises all they used to bash my son would just take a truck and bash me in the forehead with it i have a fucking egg on my head i'd have have black eyes sometimes. The kids would mess you up, man. I had a fat lip for a little bit because Len kicked me in the face while changing his diaper. It happens. You're eight months old and you exploded my lip. But the way he says it is really weird. He says, we play wrestle, play fight, and sometimes he pretends to be a tiger and he claws me up he has long fingernails

sometimes so we uh you know and they said well when did that happen and he said that happened yesterday and he's the cop said okay tell me about the scenario of what you guys were doing when the scratch occurred on your face here we go he said, just in the living room. I usually get on my knees and we kind of, I tackle him and pretend to eat him. Yeah. And he goes, I'm going to eat your belly. You know, shit like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So the thing I don't want to hear is, oh, then the cop says, the thing I don't want to hear is usually. Tell me exactly what happened. That's another thing. That's a bad thing in an interrogation. Well, I would usually do this. General shit yeah did you do that or not you know what i mean um they said that's that's the staircase that's the thing that bothers me about that case more than anything else in it because everything else i can i don't like the way when they're he's going through the the thing in his in house, going through it step by step.

The staircase is a famous case, if you don't know, Michael Peterson. And he says, well, we'd usually go out there and we'd put our dishes up here and just usually take care of them the next day. And I'm like, what happened that day? What did you do? What's your normal routine? That's not what you're being fucking asked. And this is by your own people in front of a documentary crew. So figure it out, bro.

Was there a great horned owl or not? Yeah, exactly. So anyway, he says, you know, I don't want to hear usually. So he says, oh, okay. We were just playing in the living room. I was on my knees, you know. I was, you know, I usually. And then he realized what he said.

God, I'm such a narcissist. I'm sorry. I'm only thinking about myself. Big narcissist here. He says, oh, I'm sorry. I was chasing him, grabbing him, you know, tickling. Sometimes I, again, sometimes. This is going great.

I pretend to, like, eat him, like, ah, ah, R R R and you know, with his hands. And, uh, usually when I'm that close, like he'll start clawing instead of like, you know, pretend punching.

So, and then he trailed off. Did that, was that three more times, man? Was that an exact thing or, or, or what?

You said sometimes once and usually twice. What the fuck? What happened? What happened? what happened you dipshit uh then they said did you kill her did you could we that's awesome did you kill her let me ask you a question i'm gonna ask you a question. I'm going to ask you a crazy question right now. He said, no. The cop said, no. And he said, no. He said, I'm 100% truthful. Okay.

Thank you, OJ. So, I mean, they look at it, though. From 7 to 11, he was working. He said he left. He went straight home. They said, can anybody tell you, say when time you got home? He said, absolutely, Cindy. Cindy says, yeah, he was home.

I woke up in the middle of the night. He was fucking there. I woke up several times. He was sleeping the whole time. He never left. I would have noticed or something. He would have probably not been able to hide that from me so right pretty tight alibi and you got somebody else passing a lie detector right so this is not good for the cops at this point so they look a little bit

deeper into richie's private life let's just see what kind of guy richie is okay so his co-workers a majority of them female by the way um here this is at a hospital he works um they were this is interesting they heard about this and they're like so a guy we work with may or may not have killed his ex-wife this is weird a guy we work with uh his ex-wife is dead and they fought a lot and boy does he say a lot of shitty things about her around here it's it's weird um they had been these all the women at the hospital had been strictly warned by the managers at the hospital not to discuss it amongst them so just stop talking about it leave it alone yeah they'll do that so the employees were feel

fearful even of talking with the detectives about the case because they didn't want to lose their jobs they were told to shut the fuck up about it so they were um they did reveal that uh he's a cna by the way oh so they nurse's assistant exactly so they did they weren't good enough to verify that he'd been sleeping with at least two of his female colleagues at least one of them uh Jennifer from the Philippines. Oh, like, hey, yeah, he can resist that was actively. This is the rumors from the nurses. There was actively trying to get pregnant with Richie's baby. She had been telling people that that she wanted his baby. According to the CNAs, this Jennifer, the woman, constantly boasted about how excited she and Richie were at the prospect of having a baby together and that Richie had promised her he was leaving Cynthia.

Okay. Jennifer said that they said was madly in love. Jennifer was madly in love with him. She thought she was pregnant two months in a row but was disappointed because she negative tests got her period eventually so the detectives speak with jennifer and she admitted to the affair saying it had been going on for almost a year jesus good crazy newlywed for christ's sake you're already cheating according to her richie claimed that cynthia was fully aware of the affair and was fine with it she knows about my predilection for Asian chicks. So she said, listen, you find an Asian chick, you plow away on her.

I understand. You believe that? She's on my porn hub. You believe her? I don't believe him. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, andbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and add free by joining wondery plus in

the wondery app or on apple podcasts um yeah uh fine with it he told jennifer according to her that he and cynthia were better off as friends than spouses and they were planning to divorce anyway so jennifer admitted she was also married. This is just a disaster. What is happening? But had been estranged from her husband for a few months. Not a few months after the affair started. So yeah, that's maybe why you're estranged

because you're fucking another guy. He should be estranged a lot. Richie and Jennifer had been looking for apartments together and were trying to conceive a child, Jennifer said. They spent a majority of time at work together during the day, and they would also, when they were off, they would have sex during the day when Cynthia was at work. Jennifer also had a young daughter, and they would watch movies in Richie's apartment while

their kids played together. Oh, my God. That is crazy. Your kids, my kids, my dick, you. Come on. Let's go. Well, when the children would take naps, that's when they'd have sex. Oh, gross.

Richie spent time at Jennifer's apartment as well, stopping over a lot of times after his 7 p.m. to 11 p.m. shifts were over. He'd stop by. Yeah. p.m. to 11 p.m. shifts were over. He'd stop by. Yeah. So then they discovered additional messages that he was communicating with not one, not two, but three women.

Richie. Three women here. A woman named Danielle was a former girlfriend who lived out of state, and they had professed their love for one another and expressed their regret for having ended their relationship a few years ago uh sexually explicit photos had been exchanged richie and danielle wanted to get back together they were planning a trip over christmas time to go to vegas he's what he's married so he's fighting with his ex-wife dealing with his current wife and having three girlfriends on the side. While making plans for Christmas with somebody. How's he going to explain to his kids? Christmas, babies, apartment hunting.

He's living like five lives at once here. What the shit? They also found with his phone that he really likes porn. They said he would spend hours surfing at a time. Hours. Hours of porn at a time. And they said it seemed that he had a particular taste

for ones featuring Asian women. That's what he's into. So. I love porn, James. It takes four or five minutes. Hours? Hours.

He's just, oh, I love it. I need, he just, he just likes the the voyeurism of watching somebody he's a connoisseur he's just a connoisseur of it is what it is he's like i think he's a cuckold james like somebody that likes art i feel like he's like i just want to look at it for hours at a time so weird it's creepy as shit so uh they ask about him at work, and the people at work said that their initial interviews with the people at his job said that he was great. High praise. Wonderful.

Richie's awesome around here. Then a few weeks later, after the murder, they find out that he's been fired from the hospital. Oh, shit. They said that his track record went to shit when he shoved an elderly male patient up against a wall during a confrontation. Sir, you are a CNA. All you're here for is to wipe asses. He apparently got in a fight. He's here to wipe asses and beat up old men, and he's all out of asses at this point.

The old man's ass is clean. That's it. The old man's ass is clean. That's it. Richie told Cynthia that the outburst was because the detectives had been harassing him at work, and he just snapped. He got all upset. So they do figure out this is all within like a week of the body being found, everything we're talking about. So they're still processing all the physical evidence here.

And they find that her fingernails, Angela's fingernails, are broken off. So it appears that she was fighting somebody. For her life. And they said, there's going to be DNA under those fingernails. We know it. And we're going to find out exactly who the fuck did this at this point. So they ask him. They ask Richie.

Hey, any way your dna she scratched somebody is there any way that it's going to be your dna under those fingernails and he said nope it's not possible i wasn't even there they said you're sure about that nothing's going to show up under the fingernails he said no absolutely not what are you talking about you work in medical so you should know this and they said you had a scratch on your face and he goes yeah i told you about my son remember all that and they're like okay all right so they impound two cars the police to search theirs richie and cynthia's here yeah um on one of them here they find a small spot of something dark brown on the inside of the passenger side door yeah uh visible to the eye, but not obvious what it is.

So enough for them to, you know, rock a swab on it and throw it in a bag, though. When the lab calls back here, they find out it's blood. Uh-oh. It's blood. So they do a test. It's Angela's blood. Uh-oh. In Cynthia's Honda Pilot.

Uh-oh. That's not good at all um yeah and so then they get the dna back for under her fingernails it's richie oh no so they arrest richie obviously and uh they get him at a local gym you know know, here's I got an arrest warrant. He's like, oh, he works out to James. Of course he does. He's a huge narcissist, which this is the definition of a narcissist right here, because he is number one. He can't even pronounce the word and doesn't care. So that's narcissistic. That's a bingo. He's fucking four women while arguing with another.

That's pretty narcissistic. He's going to he while arguing with another. That's pretty narcissistic. He's going to be the center of all of their lives, he's telling him at the same time. Very narcissistic. It's all narcissism. Fuck. So Cynthia and him talk on the phone from jail. This is a jail conversation. Oh, God, I love it.

She says, hi, all happy. And he says, what's up, cracker? Alabama, they call each other. They're crackers down there. Even down south. Even the Atlanta Black Crackers, the baseball team, they were the Black Crackers. So he said, you know, he's trying to be playful. And she says, do you for sure want us to try to get Schultz or do you want us to try to get a different lawyer?

We've been calling these places and I guess none of them wanted to take his case. Nobody wanted it. No, I don't want anything to do with it. It looks bad. Once the DNA came in, it's bad. She said there's this one guy who seemed promising. She called his office but he was gone for Christmas break. Richie said he heard good things and it's good that you at least made initial contact. He's, she said, he's the one. Remember when I told you he, uh, he called,

uh, when I, you, I called him, he wanted 50 grand up front. I don't want to take a chance of not getting paid on this shit. Yep. And he said he doesn't take cases that he can't win. And he's gotten people off on this kind of case before. He said he got one dude off on three murder charges. He's really good. So that much DNA. Yeah. Richie goes on to tell Cynthia he's pretty sure they're going to release me on bail here and I'll probably be home for Christmas, which does not happen. He's not released on fucking bail. Why would he? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah oh yeah i forgot what he is i was gonna say why would he think that everything was gonna be great for him gee i wonder why yeah so maybe he should have read that buzzfeed article no shit he really should have taken it to heart probably yeah so cynthia said i want you to have the best

possible he says well so do i uh then says, they searched my car the first time. So why did they need it a second time? Because, I mean, what they told me, I don't believe it for one second. I don't know if they told you the same thing, but Richie says they didn't tell me anything. She says, oh, well, I don't know if I should tell you or if it was a flat out lie what they said about my car. You want me to tell you? Yes. Just fucking tell me already.

You could have just said it by now. So she said they said the red substance was DNA hers. And Richie said, that's crazy. She never even wrote in our car. So. Right. Yeah. So.

Don't say. Why would you say that? That's crazy. She never even wrote. Exactly. That the cops are like. that? That's crazy. She never even wrote, exactly, that the cops are like. Okay? That's recorded, so.

Oh, God damn it. After the holiday, he tells the cops, I'd like to talk again. I got some stuff to tell you. I can fix this. Like to see what this guy's got to say, sure. Tell us everything so far dna match um you know not going well for you chief dna match to a woman who's dead in your car with the recording saying she's never been in she's never been in the car well yeah that's the point dummy

wow he's so he's so fucking stupid this guy i can't wait for him to explain this away he sits down and they said what do you want to tell us today richie what do you got and he said i'd like to tell you the truth this time i didn't tell you the truth last time they're like well i mean we'd love to hear the truth here in this office we're homicide detectives so the truth is fun the truth helps us do a lot of work we're into the truth here you know what i office we're homicide detectives so the truth is fun the truth helps us do a lot of work we're into the truth here you know what i mean we're into it we're like it's cool to us you know what i'm saying so if you tell us that it circumvents so much running around he said okay here's the truth you know chris right you know chris or her fiance he said quote chris said he had kind of come up with an idea

where i could get full custody of my kids and he could get full custody of his kid because i guess you know they were having some issues no so the cop interrupts and he says oh what what issues are you talking about and richie said that he didn't ask, but Chris didn't elaborate. But he said any issues with Angela wouldn't surprise me. You know, I was with her. I get it. There's issues with her. He said, so I understand this.

And he said, I knew she had issues with her other ex-husband, too. She was married before that. He said, you know, there's been a whole lot of problems. So he then said that he got together with Christopher and Christopher pulled out two photographs out of his pocket and handed them to Richie. In one photo, Christopher and Angela were along with the two kids, you know, Richie's kids. And they were smiling in front of Yellowstone National Park sign. And they were smiling in front of Yellowstone National Park sign. Okay.

The other photo showed the family at an amusement park that was out of state. Now, this seems like so what? The divorce decree said that they are not allowed to take the kids out of state without the other person's written permission. Right. So he said, here's proof that she's taken the kids out of state. He said that Christopher approached with pictures. And he said, this proves that without your permission, this is a clear violation. And in addition, Christopher said he's willing to testify in court about this in Richie's favor as long as Richie would also help him out with something.

It's a little crisscross here. So he said that Christopher tells him that, look, Angela has been cheating on me. Okay. And Angela told me that she was cheating on me. So I, you know,

I know she's been cheating on me. Christopher says, so he says, I'm telling you these things. He said, I'm positive that this affair is me, Christopher says. So he says, I'm telling you these things. He said, I'm positive that this affair is happening while I work overnights at Walmart. She's fucking somebody. Right.

He even though he said he was not surprised to hear Richie said, I wasn't surprised to hear that about Angela. But, you know, he was confused about what Christopher wanted him to do about it. What do you want from me? You know, I divorced her. So he said one day they were standing in the lobby of the elementary school waiting for his daughter, the two of them. He said Richie was waiting, and Christopher came up to him and quick slipped into his hand a cheap flip phone. And Christopher instructed Richie to keep the phone on at all times, and I'll call you on it one night and we'll hop to it.

Okay. Okay. So the detective said, what does hop to it mean? And Richie said, I assumed it meant he and Christopher would hop to going over Angela's house to catch her in the act of cheating. Because you need two people to do that. Right. I want you to see this. Yeah, I want you to see to say he said several nights passed

christopher never called him so he figured that plans off christopher must have you know thought better of it or whatever um and he thought maybe chris was bullshitting or something trying to then he started thinking was angela putting him up to it to try to get me in a bad spot for the divorce and he said you know i didn't know what was going on oh my god he said but then out of nowhere two o'clock in the morning on friday november 13th two o'clock that morning he said christopher calls on the phone and said uh you know he was pretty sure you know this it's now so he's like what the fuck he answers the phone and he said that um christopher just provided him with a plan right away christopher

said quote i'm going to be at work one night i'm going to call you and then i'm going to have you come get me and we'll go over there and we'll catch him in bed and then you can testify for me in court and i'll testify for you so he said he was excited about this plan richie he's like the plan's afoot we're gonna go over there and catch her cheating he said i was like rich i love to watch people fuck i love to watch people maybe she's fucking an asian guy and i can get a two for one this will be great who knows this could be amazing for us so richie said he was excited he said quote i was like yeah sure that sounds good you're gonna help me and i'm gonna help you you see uh he said he would testify for me.

Then in turn, I would testify for him to get full custody of our kids. We'd both have custody and Angela would be sad and crazy by herself. That's the plan. Yeah, it's on. What a story, Mark. Richie didn't. What a story. What a story.

So he said Richie didn't seem to find that odd at all. He said, yeah, that seems normal. That's what you do. Yeah, I'm going to go over with her fiance and find her cheating and then we'll help each other out. So he said, Christopher climbed into the Honda Pilot. Richie picked him up at Walmart and Christopher told him, I need to be back by 3 a.m. to Walmart. Yeah. Walmart and Christopher told him I need to be back by 3 a.m. to Walmart.

Yeah. So he said those are the only words spoken between them as they traveled to the house. They get to the house. Richie said that Angela's car was in the driveway and he chose to park a few lengths away from it. Richie did. So it's interesting here. Now, Christopher, using a key, unlocked the door and led Richie through the house up a few steps into what he Richie said he assumed was the kitchen because of the tile floors and, you know, all that sort of thing, obviously. wow he said they get in there uh they go down to the bedroom here um and my god he said that when he came into the bedroom christopher was already in the bedroom and um he said that you know he kept saying he wanted to catch her cheating he wanted to catch her cheating he

said it like over and over again he said that when they opened the door he chris opened it with richie behind him to the bedroom she was in bed and it looked like there were two people in the bed so they said they pulled back the covers but it wasn't a person it was a body pillow oh so he then says that richie says that well maybe i don't know what Oh. Chris just started stabbing her. I don't know why. He said that he went crazy and started stabbing her and just kept stabbing her and stabbing her. He didn't know what happened. Chris said it was a body pillow. She wasn't even cheating. He opened the bed, saw a body pillow and her, and then now he's pissed that she's not cheating.

I guess. And stabbing her up. That's the thing. he's pissed that she's not cheating i guess and stabbing her up that's the thing so he said ritchie says i ran over there and i touched her neck to feel for her pulse you know because she was kind of like you know and like as i went to touch her pulse or whatever she like leaned up and like scratched the mess out of my face to explain away the dna fascinating way of saying i didn't do anything wrong, but I was present for a murder.

I grabbed her hands and she just looked at me and said, I love you, Richie. You narcissistic fuck. Dumb ass jackass. What a moron. In the middle of a murder, love to me because i'm so wonderful and then after that chris came back to stab her more and he said that richie knew that his ex-wife wasn't one to just roll over and give in so he watched as angela would tried to fight back

against chris as well uh richie said he was horrified as christopher yanked angela down from the bed pulled her to the floor and repeatedly stabbed her he said they said did you make any attempt to stop him and richie said no i wouldn't i mean there's a knife going up and down he's see what he's doing to her jesus christ i'm gonna hurt myself you know i'm a narcissist he said he was able to run to the other side of the room where Angela lay. And that's when he was feeling for a pulse and all that kind of shit. So he he says then he just started stabbing her more. And I asked him, I was like, what the fuck are you doing, man?

Now you ask. Now you ask. So he said so he got up and left the bedroom instead of running out of the house to his car and to go you know to a police station or call the 9-1-1 on his cell phone or anything like that he just hung out in the living room waiting for christopher to be done with the stabbing so he could confront christopher and go listen here pal that was beyond the pale yeah you're you're putting me out now mister and i don't appreciate it. He said he couldn't understand what just happened. He just couldn't process it. He said he believed that they were, you know, trying to catch Angela in the act of cheating.

And he said, you know, this was he feels like he was set up by Christopher, who just wanted a partner in this. It's a body pillow. Now I got blood all over me. Oh, man. He said it was violent. So violent. I mean, he was just going crazy. That's what blood all over me. Oh, man. He said it was violent. So violent. I mean, he was just going crazy. That's what he said about Chris. He said Chris then walked into the kitchen

and pulled a red towel out of a drawer. He said Richie said he saw Chris take what looked like a pocket knife that was covered in blood and folded it up and then wrapped it in the towel and put it in his pocket. And he also said that, give me that cell phone that I gave you back, Chris told Richie. I'll be getting that burner now. Obviously, Richie was like, oh, well, here, please take it. As they exited the house, Richie said, as they're exiting the house, Richie says about this, quote, Christopher thought it would be better if we made it look like a break-in had happened. And so they locked and shut the back door.

And he said then Christopher turned around and kicked it in. So he said he drove him back to Walmart. And Richie told the detectives he had to control the steering wheel with his wrist because his hands were still covered in Angela's blood from when he tried to – when I heroically tried to check her pulse, obviously. You know, clearly. So they said, okay, you dropped him back off at Walmart. Where did Chris ride? And he said, in the passenger seat. You know, same side of the car that that spot of blood was found on. That explains that too.

Weird. They said, let me ask you this. When we first interviewed you, why the fuck wouldn't you tell us this? Right. And he said, well, one, because he kept threatening my family. He's like, you tell anybody. This is his exact quote. Quote, he's like, you tell anybody.

He's like, I'm going to kill your wife and I'm going to kill your little one. You know, your little one. No. You tell anybody and he'll go to prison you're fine so the cops are like it could have happened i mean it's not unlikely but let's go ahead story you know how we could check this every square inch of a walmart in 2015 is on camera sure is let's see if we can find chris here well um cameras everywhere um they spend the an entire night watching a walmart uh camera feed the cops uh watching the videos and uh the

videos keep track of everything they said we'll find out so um between um they they said you know he won't be there between 2 15 and 3 so every So every 5 to 10 minutes, we have him there at the store. This is what the cops said. We have him in the entry sitting down eating lunch during the time that Richie's telling us he's stabbing Angela. They're watching the time code go by while he's taking a bite of his sandwich. They said, in fact, the only times he left the store to even go outside was his scheduled breaks, which had no time to go there, kill his wife and come home. He's a wonderful employee. He's just eating his lunch conscientiously at the table.

Then a guy named Jeremiah Tallman comes out. OK. He's in county jail all the time. And he's in county jail now because he violated a mutual restraining order with him and his wife had against each other does anybody get along in this fucking town no it's all very angry people who have restraining order i'd like to know the restraining order per capita in this town because it's i know it's a small population but i feel like the per capita is high right not a happy relationship amongst them most people it's like 2.3 children's the average here it's 2.3 restraining orders per couple they have it's interesting we just fight with each

other until fucking eric church comes back next year that's it we're getting jelly roll again in the fall so that'll be fun so um while in jail he is roomed up with richie wilder here so let's talk to richie um and then after that richie tallman comes and talks to detectives he explains that richie had initially initially probed tallman when he came in to hear if he had any heard anything about his case while he was on the outside. Any news from Freedom? What's the report? Yeah, what's the report? He said, yeah, I think I heard, I saw a quick news headline when I was scrolling through Facebook,

but I didn't really pay attention to it because I don't fucking know you till now. He said he never met or heard of anybody, so he didn't have much interest in the case, Tallman. So, wow. They said he eventually gave him some information he said this is tolman he told me the route he took to get there where he parked the car how he entered the house i mean just about everything important from front to back you know he told me he took the bypass down to the fourth then up 16th, which is apparently where Angela lived. He said he parked by the church, went in the back door,

or parked by the church, then went over to her house, went in the back door, stabbed the hell out of her, drove up 16th, chucked the knife at the top of the hill, and went back home. Said he ditched his clothes in a dumpster by his apartment. So they said that this seems awfully, like, that was exactly what he said that was his quote so they were like you just yeah you really cruised right by stabbed the hell out of his ex-wife that's a big one but i do like the uh pitch to the knife we'll be at the top of the hill yeah it's up there uh they said did he tell you why he killed her?

And Tallman said he didn't say specifically say like this is the reason I did it. But over the course of talking to him for several days, he'd revealed what he was mad about. He said, I guess they'd had an ongoing custody dispute. He believed that either she had abused the children or she had allowed the children to be abused or something. So they said, well, why the hell would he confess to you? Then they figured out that Tallman revealed to him that he'd been charged with murder in 2010. His trial went to, it went to trial in 2011, but he got acquitted when his lawyer proved that Tallman had acted in self-defense.

So Richie was basically, they said, given his, Richie's not going to be outdone by somebody. You killed somebody, guess what I did? I did all of this. So he wanted to share his own story. Also, what's your lawyer's number? That's the other thing. He said, how do you get off of a murder charge? This is what my deal is.

And also, Taubman was giving him basic pointers on just how to navigate the prison system and the judicial system and all that sort of thing. So they're going to take Richie to trial, obviously. Oh, for sure. So the prosecutor says, I felt like I had a very strong case. My strategy was to present the crime scene and physical evidence and pretty much can just drop the mic and walk away at that point. So they do that. Christopher Jackson, his whole story, though, and his lawyer's story, Richie's lawyer's story is Christopher Jackson did it at first,

but then with the DNA he can't say that. So they talked about the prosecutor said all the rabbit holes. Richie led the detectives down. He said they kept following up, though. They kept following up and they eventually figured out that his stories were stupid. They said when Richie had described for detectives how Christopher Jackson had murdered Angela, he had really been providing them with a true account of what he had done. Right. Yep.

They said the only person who had actually been wielding a knife was Richie. So the defense in their closing says that, yes, it's true. Christopher Jackson isn't the one who murdered Angela. You're right. That couldn't happen. But they said, listen, Christopher had somehow been involved. That's the thing. the thing. So then they go into this big lengthy thing where they said, now we know Chris Jackson was at work the entire night. Mr. Wilder believes he was set up. He told other people at the jail that he was set up. March 4th comes along and he gives a statement to law enforcement that says it was Chris Jackson. We know it wasn't Chris Jackson, but who do we know that it was? Do we know that it was Richie Wilder? No, we don't. He was trying, and you can make this determination yourself, he was trying during his statement on March 4th to deflect off to Mr. Jackson to get more investigation done to see if Mr. Jackson had some involvement

in whoever did kill Angela. So he was investigating. Yes. He said, I'll put myself in it if that's what it takes for you to go down the right path. He was just leaving breadcrumb trails for these detectives so they could figure it out, obviously. So that is insane. They also described how Chris has had a rocky relationship and they squabbled over whether

or not a baby she was carrying was his. When she first got pregnant, because she was only there for a minute, it was his kid. They said that she was openly flaunting being with another man, which we never found out who that was. What? Yeah. So they said he also reminded the jury that if they had a reasonable doubt, they had to find him not guilty. He also reminded the jury that if they had a reasonable doubt, they had to find him not guilty. He said, I asked you at the beginning of this trial if you had reasonable doubt as to who killed Angela Wilder.

You would have to find Richie Wilder not guilty. I think there's reasonable doubt here. So the jury takes 45 minutes to decide. Fuck, that's fast. Yes. And they said the verdict here, he is guilty of murder, obviously. Six men and six women, and Angela's family was very happy. Sentencing comes up, and the judge, not too lenient on him after all this and a trial, you, sir, may fuck off life without parole.

Fuck forever. Life without. Cindy, his wife, is in the courtroom. She obviously starts crying, runs out of the room. What about her, by the way, fucking signing off for him? You know what I'm saying? He was there all night. No, he wasn't.

Oh, hold the phone, Jimmy. This case ain't over yet. Oh, thank God. We're not going appeal, appeal. He's still in jail. No, he wasn't. Oh, hold the phone, Jimmy. This case ain't over yet. Oh, thank God. We're not going appeal, appeal. He's still in jail. No, no, no. This is going to be lightning from top to bottom here. Okay.

There's a lot more coming here. She said he's a good man. He's a good husband. He would never do anything to hurt his kids. None of it makes any sense to me at all. I know that I was home that night. I got up on a couple of occasions with my kids. And when I got up, he was at home.

That's all I know. I guess he could have left while I was asleep. But damn it, that would have been risky because the kids could wake up at any time. But now he's in prison, life without parole. Cindy has to try to move on with her life. You know what I mean? It's not easy. It's not easy. It's not easy. Her sister Abby is trying to help her. She moves up there to help take care of the

kids and that sort of shit. So her sister said, I felt like she needed me as a sister and needed the support. I've been a single mom for years. I know how hard it is to do it on your own. So I felt like I was going to do what I could to help her bear the burden and figure things out. Uh, Cindy goes back to her teaching job and, um, you know, she's doing a lot of substitute teaching, trying to wait for a full position to open up. And yeah, she's got a lot of baggage around her, just the whole thing. So she said though, or her sister said she felt lonely. lonely she said i was saw that she was struggling and needed some help you know trying to figure out the whole single parent thing obviously she said i had to ask her a few times um you know are you sure are you sure he was home that night like

the sister even was was doing that uh she said though she always said yes he never left the house i woke up three times or whatever, however many times. He was always out cold, snoring, in REM sleep, for Christ's sake. Oh, dear. Whatever. That's it. She said she just watched her sister get more sad and lonely and looking for someone to talk to. And that's when she reunites with an old friend of hers.

Yeah. A guy named Matt Walters. Thanks, Facebook. Thanks, Facebook. Well, yeah. an old friend of hers yeah guy named matt walters as an old old thanks facebook well yeah um just she wanted someone to talk to uh this was a bartender that she once hung used to hang out with at some bar in minot yeah so they met before her marriage and she said that they'd hang out on slow nights and sit there and do shots together and have some in-depth conversations. You know, drunk shit. You know, seven inches deep or so.

You know, that's what I like to tell the ladies anyway. It's more like five, but don't tell. She said that since then they felt this connection. And so there was like a nice connection between them. And yeah, they lost track of each other once Cindy got married and had a baby and all that shit. But she ended up finding him on Facebook. Yeah, she did. She said, I suppose you've heard.

And he said, heard what? And so she sent an article, a link to an article about her husband getting life without parole. So block. Yeah. So, you know, Matt and some of the friends took Cindy out for some drinks, you know, and they all talked about Richie's arrest and all that kind of shit. She insisted to the whole group that he was with her all night. He never left. And that's it.

And shit, I mean, Matt said all he ever told her was, I hope that's true because if it wasn't true and you testify to that in court, you could end up in prison. You could get perjury charges. So Matt knew a little bit here matt had done uh done a year in prison himself for burglary before he turned his life around so they said matt was a shoulder to cry on and that's how it works matt ends up moving to denver he moved away and they chat online and then one day um they were talking about shit. And Cindy, this is Matt. Matt says, quote, we were talking about how Richie got caught and how he's going to prison.

And I said, well, a knife's kind of a stupid way to do something like that. And she said, well, the knife was backup. It was supposed to be a gun. Oh, God. And my response was, wow. She wasn't the innocent bystander. She wasn't the innocent bystander. And the right thing to do is to let the proper people know.

So Matt calls the police. He is the stool pigeon. He's a fucking stool pigeon. He called the Minot police, who they had fucking, they were done with this case. Life without fucking Cindy, whatever, who cares. I'm sure she wasn't involved. It's fine. the minot police who they they had fucking they were done with this case life went out yeah fucking cindy whatever who cares it's i'm sure she wasn't involved it's fine she's trying to cover her husband whatever we get it yeah he calls and gives his information and he said he had

information on the angela wilder homicide and they arranged for a place to talk to the detective and all that they said he seemed very credible and he was somebody, he just kept saying he had this bad gut conversation or feeling from these conversations that Cindy was involved. So he said, you should look into her. So the detectives take,

Jesus, they enlist him as an official confidential informant. He is given the name CI-17-001. Okay. Confidential informant, 17-01. 1701 he said quote it was kind of cool it was kind of like what you see on tv that's what matt said he thought it was cool i'm a burglar this felt great this is fun she said they asked him if he'd be willing to come up and wear a wire and um he said wow it's so weird i'm gonna

wear a wire this is fucking crazy you know what the hell seven this is so cool so he said uh he ended up telling cindy that he got laid off from work in denver and he's going to come back to minot to see some friends and asked her if she wanted to hang out she said hell yeah um so the they were worried about setting up the first they were going to set up a secret meeting in a hotel, in his hotel room. But he said, I got a girl in Denver, and there's only one reason you go to hotels. It looks bad. Let's just pick someplace else. I don't want it to be.

I don't want anything getting fucked up here. He's so honest. Matt is very honest. So they said, yeah, I can't do that. Also, they said, okay, well, then why don't you just wear a wire on your body and he said I don't know Cindy's kind of careful she strikes me as a little paranoid and you know he said

what if we start talking about stuff and she wants to search me who is she John Gotti she's not she's a kindergarten teacher hey hold on he might be wearing a wire turn him around open your chest and spin it around. Have four little kids come pat him down.

It's a little gang. So he said that he felt like it would be better to just go for a ride or go out and have his car wired. So they wire up his car. They did that. They hide a transmitter. So the cops have to stay close by. So 930, he picks Cindy up. And kids are finally passed out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

They talk. They go to a bar. And he records a voice note on his phone while that's happening, while they're at the bar. And they're all hanging out and all this type of shit. He said he didn't push very hard at the bar or anything. He just has to make it casual hard at the bar or anything. He just has to make it casual. So it's past midnight.

He said, I drove her home, and she didn't get out of my car, which is good. But it got to the point, it seemed like an hour, and where we weren't saying anything of any relevance, just sitting there and small talking. So the detectives are parked 30 feet away trying not to fall asleep yeah and it's like going on hour four they're in a dark car they're getting like okay this is about getting ready to wrap up and uh he said matt said to her well i should probably get going and he said her body language changed and everything changed and she got angry and they were like, well, what do you mean angry? And he said, well, I wasn't sure. So I asked her, are you mad at your husband? And here's what she said from the wire.

No, like I'm proud of him. I'm just pissed that he got caught and that he got sloppy and impatient were we were like had this thing planned for like a year. Oh, you dumb. Two years. Sorry. Two years. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Like, holy shit. Like he it was wild. She said, like, he came home that night and he said it got sloppy. She fought back. He had to do what he had to do. She put up a good fight like she did. And she scratched his face like, and that's what got him, too. Was like, if I, she then says, if it was me, I would have gone back and cut her.

Cut her fingers off. I would have burned them. I would have lit the house on fire. What was it like to, would have lit the house on fire? What? There's a two-year- there doesn't matter um matt said it was really hard to listen to all this he's like this is fucking crazy he said that he had such an urge to just tell her to shut up because she's being disgusting but he couldn't because you know of this um so So then she goes on to say he like went psycho on her because the hate and the anger and the frustration.

And I totally would have done the same thing, too. I know. Like I said before, a knife is a stupid way to kill somebody. And she said he had a gun that was supposed to be untraceable. They had a gun planned for all this. But and every time he like took it, it like kept jamming. And I guess that night it was old.

She then said, I helped him clean up. He left again to like dispose of the clothing and the weapon and everything. And I thought we were like in the clear. Holy fucking shit. Thought we were in the clear um asshole it's it's fucking wild so um she said like i helped him like i would like i would leave she then says that the time angela was saying that she was worried about being watched all the time she was being

watched yeah cynthia said uh like i would help him. Like, I would leave. Like, when he worked nights, I would leave the house at, like, midnight and, like, sit outside her house in my vehicle seeing who came into the house. When her boyfriend left, where she, when she, yeah, we had this planned out, and he screwed it up because he didn't clean the car good enough. One spot of blood in my car. So... And 30 feet, the cop's 30 feet away right now. She's fucked. They're dancing in their seats.

Oh my God. So they wait a couple days and they go. She's substituting teaching a third grade class that day. Oh shit. And they go to school and they pulled her into a private office and they go, hey, we have a warrant for your arrest for homicide so you might want to wrap up a tape for you. Let's wrap up the

spelling here and we're going to take you on in. So they said she didn't really respond. She didn't cry. She didn't make any statements. Her sister Abby said, I felt betrayed because I felt sorry for her and as a sister I wanted to help her and then to find out it was like a big lie and that I was betrayed and deceived. It was terrible.

Yeah. Yeah. She could have told her sister. I don't think her sister would have told on her. So, wow. She said this in her defense. This is in an interview in county jail. Okay.

They said, well, you said all this shit to Matt on tape. And she said, quote, I mean, I'm lonely. And I was trying to see if there could be any sort of relationship when I'm looking to start a new relationship with someone. I like to brag about participating in a murder. If that doesn't hook up, nothing will. You know what I mean? I like to really be vulnerable and expose myself. And I like to just give bullshit. She said, and I was kind of, well, trying to impress him.

I wanted to wow his socks off. The reporter said, you said you were trying to impress him, did you just say? Yeah. And she said, yeah, because I know he has a criminal history too so i thought you know that would be kind of like our connection our like common thing he's not a murderer i wanted to bonnie and clyde this guy holy shit the reporter said so you said i did all these terrible things when you didn't really do them and cindy said i mean a handful of the things in the conversation are somewhat true, but for the most part, it's false and extremely exaggerated. The true parts are the fact that I knew about it after it happened.

That's it. So they said, you hid the part that you knew about it. And she said, right. I didn't want to get arrested. I didn't want to lose my kids. I didn't want to lose my job, obviously. Holy shit. So Cindy goes to court.

She's got to go to court. She's arrested. She's charged with murder. I mean, it's murder. So the prosecutors offer her a deal. And this was, you spend 25 years in prison and you're good. 25. 25 and you're going to get parole, basically.

25 to life? 25 to 25. 25. 25 is it? You do 25 and you're going to get parole, basically. 25 to life? 25 to 25. 25. 25 is it? Do 25, and you're good. Okay. Now, she's like 25 years old at this point. So you get out.

You resume your life. She said, no thanks. I'm going to do it my own way. I'm smart. Who's the narcissist now? Dude, these two are a great couple. I'm telling you. What the fuck?

She decided she wanted to take an Alford plea, meaning you plead guilty, but not because you did it, just because a jury is likely to find you guilty. That's what it is. I'd say I'm innocent, but I feel like there's evidence that would likely find me guilty. So that way she believed in her mind that the judge would impose a lighter penalty because she's not admitting that she did anything right they don't know how she doesn't know how judges work very right a judge is gonna be pissed at you for this yes so both the state both the prosecutor and the defense had asked for 10 years like 10 year minimum give her 10 you know what I'm saying? So the judge, though, has something else to say. The judge

says, quote, you were the way because it's up to the judge because it's a plea. You were the one person who could have stopped this nightmare. You were the one person who could have intervened who could have called law enforcement when Richie Wilder Wilder left your home. You were the one person who could have spared Angela Wilder's life. You chose not

to do so. I am hereby remanding you to a North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation as to the count of conspiracy, blah, blah, blah. Then he says to her, your actions are the ultimate form of child abuse. Oh, God. You, ma'am, may fuck off. Life without parole. Oh, fuck. I wish I had seen her face yeah huh what but i thought that you but uh what had happened was that was that a different length you were supposed to say 10 years oh shit did you get somebody else's sound what what just happened are you related to angela

or something like this is fucked up no no no i i i said i said i did it oh and i said no not no fuck okay so life without life without could have had 25 and out. Angela's sister, they said, what do you think about? She said, quote, she's a horrible person. She's exactly where she needs to be. And I'm so thankful that the judge saw her for the individual that she is, the monster that she is. Holy shit. Yeah. 2008, Cindy appeals and it fails miserably.

Or 2018, Cindy appeals and it fails because she's got nothing to appeal on because she fucking pled what do you want so not a lot to appeal Dateline also does an episode in 2018 as well yeah I was on Dateline 2021

comes around yeah Cindy now wants to withdraw her plea she goes you know what i thought about it i know it's been three four years but i i could be 21 through four down 21 to go and it's not like that so i you know what let's do something else can i talk to matt oh man this is wild so she claims that she wants to withdraw her withdraw her plea because she just was exaggerating to her old friend. She said, quote, I said a lot of things to a lot of people. That doesn't mean they're true. She also complained that she didn't have that her lawyer, her public defender, didn't notify her that he left the public defender's office and wouldn't be representing her at her sentencing hearing.

So she said that that he had been fired from the public defender's office after the after that point. He had said that the Wilder case was, quote, no longer my problem. It's not. What the fuck is he going to do about it? Not my pig, not my farm. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. it's fine what the fuck's he gonna do about it not my pig not my farm yeah so sorry um yeah they said that um he then said that you know it was no longer my job not my problem he said obviously

because they were like jesus and he was like i mean my job but what am i gonna go show up and work pro bono for this person i don't know her so uh he also said that he had not hired a private investigator to investigate the case or interview witnesses, though he had tried several times because he wasn't able to find a private investigator in Ward County at the time because they're in the middle of fucking nowhere. Aside from that, they said the confidential informant lived out of state and a private investigator may not have been able to find much out anyway. So they said that, yeah, she wants a new trial. She really does. She must, she wants a new trial. She really does.

She must prove to get a new trial. She must prove that not doing so would be a manifest injustice and that her defense attorney did not represent her adequately. So far, this has not worked. Yeah. They told her to fuck off and keep fucking off. Once when you plea plea it is really hard to pull that back and james the police got a very trustworthy witness like yep the man wouldn't even go into a hotel room with her yeah because he's honest and and on the up and up with this girl

that's that was genius on his part and her voice on that tape is terrible. That's just, you hear that, you're like, oh, boy, you're fucked. So there we go. They're both in prison life without poor Angela Wilder. And Chris I feel terrible for, too. Poor Chris has a two-year-old to deal with a dead wife. That's awful. His fucking unborn child was murdered.

This is terrible. And the poor guy just didn't react right no to the police or to really anybody it didn't react right at all that looks bad it looks terrible that's i mean it's terrible i feel bad for him but he made himself look bad at first there's nothing you could even do about it he knows that he knew it he knew it yeah he said i don't know what the fuck he just knew it i think he was scared and he let this he let his fear overcome him which is weird i don't know it happens i guess it happens certainly does. There you go. That is Minot, North Dakota.

That is a crazy fucking story if you've ever heard one. I'm dizzy. If you agree, tell the world. Get on whatever app you listen to podcasts on or every other app, too. Help us out. It does help out a lot. Give us a nice review. Five stars.

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uh, patrion.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of the bonus materials. You get it all for anybody, $5 or above. You get everything, a whole back catalog5 or above, you get everything. A whole back catalog of bonus episodes, 150 plus long. New episodes every other week you're going to get.

And two new episodes, as a matter of fact. One crime and sports, one small town murder. This week is no exception. For crime and sports, we are going to talk about the And One Company, which was, they did a good documentary on it. It's about shoes and basketball and these – the streetball videos. Genius marketing, genius all this shit.

And we'll talk about that documentary and also more stuff that – outside the scope of the documentary. And just kind of get into the whole thing. It's a fun little – How do they get to Walmart? I love a downfall. And that's a downfall there. How to become a Kohl's brand. This is how you do it.

So very quickly. So there's that. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about sex in the people's temple, meaning Jonestown and California before Jonestown and everything. What happens when one weirdo has control of a thousand people's sex lives? Very weird shit. We'll talk all about it. When one weirdo has control of a thousand people's sex lives. Very weird shit.

We'll talk all about it. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you will get a shout out at the end. When does that shout out come? Right now. Fucking now. Jimmy, tell me the names of the people who would never stab the shit out of me and then not rush in to try to help me afterwards. Jimmy, hit me with that list right now. This week's executive producers are Charles Short and me sharing a birthday.

Happy birthday, Charles. Melinda O'Connor and her shattered ankle in Australia are having a birthday. Happy birthday. Keep recovering. Nadia Gorachowski. Nice. Boy, her last name now is Zaria, which is much better than- That's easier.

I don't know if it's better, but it's easier. Much better for me. She sounded like a Rocky and Bullwinkle villain before, that's good kowski i think it is oh boy karen corcheles corcholes corcholes corcholes jesus happy right out of the gate today huh happy birthday linden thompson hey linda thompson chris s autumn shank kate and fiona deskins thank you all so much for what you do for us can't do it without you other producers this week are kelly pallet senior i think that's not right christopher hickey and andy van slike oh center fielder for the the old pirates fucking yeah excellent guy uh ge George the Animal steals Harry back. Johnny Rods.

Good to get something. Well, all sorts of old wrestlers coming out of the woodwork today. You know who it is. Yeah. The unpredictable Johnny Rods. He never stops. I love it. Peyton Meadows, Alan Hunkin, Bill McClellan, Craig Neal, Corporal Carl Kirshner, Christopher-

Bill McClellan, like General McClellan? Yes. No. Yes. Bill McClellan. no yes yes okay christopher almadovar i know that name because of that newscaster that poor bastard he fucking made it sound so poetic though i forget his first name but i know almadovar i do know oh fuck what was god damn it i don't remember it's a it's a wonderful first name, too. Janice Hill, Matthew Burleson, Doug McCoon, Powell Lowendowski. That's got to be Paul, right?

P-A-W-E-L? That's Paul, right? You're asking me this? I don't fucking know. You're the one that wrote it down. I have no idea. Gabe Wildbrenner. Wildbrenner.

Jennifer Rooks, Joyce Brand, Melanie Lillis. Or Eilis? I think it's Lillis. Justin Hoford, Christian Noise, Deborah Pape, Test Tickle. Are you proud of yourself? I know what that is. I know what testicles are. I know.

I've heard of testicles before. Brian Gorgas, maybe gorgeous. Michael with no last name. Tiana Watts, Bexy Brooks, Candy Marie. Austin with no last name. O.D., William Shepard, Aaron Bowers. Jay with no last name. Colleen Cook, Melissa with no last name. O.D. William Shepard. Aaron Bowers. Jay with no last name. Colleen Cook.

Melissa with no last name. Taylor Hopper. Jamie Bales. Matthew Hilligons. Hilligons. Legans. Andrew Yotes. Yonce.

Yonce. Catherine Keegan. Wren with no last name. Michael Breedjick. Breedick. What? There's a J and a K. You can't pronounce that.

Jason Pickering. Melinda O'Connor. Tim Van Risen. what there's a j and a k you can't pronounce that jason pickering malinda o'connor tim van ryzen dan greenwood uh andrea papa popa maybe lisa wilson billy melta zoes melta zoes uh andrew with no last name l l shirai yes i think so lish b candy jones So Lish, B, Candy Jones, Katherine Kyritz, Sharon Showalter. That's a tough one. Samron, no, Samron, Samantha Ruff. Samron. Joyce Smith, Elizabeth Cook, Robert Hamilton, Brenda White, Brockway, Chantel Smithberger, Carol Ewing, Isabella, Noble Hartzler, Chris with no last name, Sarah Wheeler, Amanda Griffin,

Danielle Baldwin. Aldo and Renee. Brenna. Brenna. Brenna Shy. Liza. Liza. Liza.

Martz. Brent Howard. Free Quincy Gracie. Dana Place. Nicole Bonnie. Shelly Ewan. Chuck. Avery Burks.

Grace Aileen. Rennie. BL with no last name. svetlana gladson nope that's gadston hey reagan burns uh kathy gerald kimberly morrow roman shakno sachno teddy sidell brian middleton i do it with like a fucking karate hey yeah i'm not gonna-ya. I'm not going to get it. Brian Middleton. Karen Lahore. Melantha. Melantha Morgan. Sidney Edelman. Don Lepapaparo.

Yeah. Lepapaparo. Lepapaparo. Raz Goose. Raz Gus. Jacob Willie. Wiley, maybe? It's Willie.

Chad Barrett. Mike Nipirolio. Mike Nipirolio. Chad Barrett. Mike Nipirolio. Mike Nipirolio. Look at you lower. Nipirolio. You get down low and you're going to try to get something. Hi-ya. Marie Mayengale.

You bent down to pick up a couple of letters. That's what it sounds like. I dropped those. I dropped some vowels here. Hold on a sec. Nipper, Rolio. Marine Mengel. Stacey Ritzma.

Rachel Schmitz. Marina Arachudo. What is this? Arulho. Araujo. I have no idea even what letters might be in this name. Robert Vera, Cameron Scanlon, Jake Blackmore, Carolyn Shepard, Kate Smolka, Christy McDevitt, April Valerius, Jeffrey Jones, Jordan Stafford, Anna Holder. What is it?

Jeffrey Jones? Yeah. The guy, Ferris Bueller guy who got busted for child porn? Yes. Well, I guess thanks. Just pervert thrown in there. It's fantastic. You're good in Howard the Duck, I suppose.

I don't know what else to tell you. Deadwood, very good. Pretty great in Deadwood. Very, very good. Don't diddle anybody, please. And was that post-allegations? It was, I think. Oh, yes, it was. And a holdwood. Very, very. Don't diddle anybody, please. And was that post allegations? It was, I think. Oh, yes, it was.

Anna Holder. Oh, no. I think it was post, right? Maybe. He's still in shit. He's still doing it. I don't think it matters. He's still figuring it out.

Way to go. Kyle Grace Mills. Jai Vaughn. Jai? I think it's Jai. Jai, maybe. Rachel with no last name. Ashley Smith.

Joe Onima. Michael Samsel. Michael Christy Carruthers Lindo. Lindow, maybe. Rachel, with no last name. Ashley Smith. Joe Onima. Michael Samsel. Christy Carruthers-Lindo. Lindow, maybe. Douglas Moore. Emily Schwartz. Leland Waite. Linda Stisical.

Kirsten Howe. Or maybe Ho. Alana Shrine. Ben Ralston. Thomas Hicks. Taylor Black. Juventor. Juventar.

Juveeter. Juventor. Sarah Weiss, Rosa Calderon, Carrie Crary, my God, Ariel, it's Carrie Crary, Ariel Harris, Mark Benson, Kelsey with no last name, Jason Keene, Phillip Dry, Clayton with no last name, Denmarie Borland, Dick Didler, and Chixie Dix. All right, Janet Moore, Tom with no last name, Jasmine with no last name, Denmarie Borland, Dick Didler, and Chixie Dix. All right. Janet Moore, Tom with no last name, Jasmine with no last name, Joanna Trout, Trish O'Malley,

Jost Bjorkgren. Yeah. Claire Taylor, Paul Terrell, I Rescue Texas Deaf Dogs. That's a fucking hero right there. Jesse Gold, Nicole Lee, Christy Pickle, Derek Endicott, tiff anderson derrick agostino joey jareb oh yeah andrew t keith clements raymond raymond marsack uh cameron

fernandez tyler white kristen black al rullolo rullo uh white and kristen black were back to back they were who are they wow no kristen beck oh i thought you said white and then black i was like wow i probably did because of the white yeah i think you did that's what i heard anyway but jane holderfield justin govis ian with no last name samantha laurie peach britney bonadio benedio benado benadio benedio benado let's call the whole thing off. Heat Renier, Kena Evans, Jamie Brehe, Jay Manor, Derek Dirty Dick, Ingram, Nate Bolden, Michael Avant, Joe Fender, Aaron Albert, Brittany Jones, Tiffany M, Giovanna Jimenez, Ben Scott, Jacqueline McCarville, Matthew White, CFD, Joe Carlson, Brandon Wolfe, Tisha Oopin, Oop-a-poppin, Oop-a-poppin? Oop-a-poppin.

Oop-a-poppin. Heidi Fisher, Kelsey Fleming, Tanya Pierce, Chelsea, nope, that's Chester, Eagles, Jason Schlott Schulte, and all of our patrons are terrific. Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, holy shit, thank you for all that you do for us, for all of your help and all of your commitment. Thank you so much. We hope you love the episodes because we love making them. Keep coming back. Keep hanging with us.

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