Small Town Murder - #365 - Judging Mother - Van Buren, Arkansas

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

This week, in Van Buren, Arkansas, an exacting, and difficult mother continues to oversee her children's lives, well into adulthood, causing many problems. One night someone decides to bash this woman's head in, leaving her nearly unrecognizable, and the crime scene streaked with blood. Attention immediately focuses on her son, but there just isn't enough evidence to make a move, while local people wonder if they could be next. In the end, a shocking truth comes to light, leaving no doubt as to what happened, and what strange weapon was used to accomplish it!! A truly strange mystery!Along the way, we find out that Arkansas loves a pageant, that you can't control your adult children, and that when you get a divorce... leverage is the key! Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Van Buren, Arkansas, some long-standing family drama ends up with crushed skulls and a mystery that keeps the

whole area on edge for years. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder. And today is no different than any other day. We are down in Arkansas today. We know it that Arkansas, there's a handful of states that really bring it hard, murder time.

And it's West Virginia, it's arkansas missouri you can throw in that mix there's a there's a whole bunch of them they're angry there are there's some angry stuff going on down there and this is an angry angry murder before we get to that real quick just want to say thanks for everything you do for us by the way if you haven't done it get on whatever app you're listening on give us five stars stars. It helps a lot. Just helps drive us up the charts. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Pick up not only your tickets for live shows that are for sale right now, like Seattle, Portland, and Detroit, and Pittsburgh, but March 3rd, the rest of the year's dates are going on sale with a couple of new dates in there that weren't announced earlier.

We're coming everywhere. That doesn't sound good, but we're going to be all over the place there. They're all going on sale with new shows in Boston and Dallas has been added. We're sorry, Milwaukee and Phoenix. We definitely wanted to come there, but the dates didn't work out schedule-wise. We're sorry. All the dates are going to go on sale. Denver, Salt Lake, Minneapolis, Chicago, you name it.

D.C. They're all coming. D.C., Philly. Get your tickets. March 3rd, Atlanta. D.C. They're all coming. D.C., Philly. Get your tickets. March 3rd, Atlanta. Get your tickets, everybody, on San Diego on March 3rd. We cannot wait for that. Also, while you're at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, get your tickets to the virtual live show.

Hey. April 20th, 420 virtual live show. I am going to get Jimmy real stoned, and it's going to be hilarious. And people want to see that. Trust me. We're going to have a wild case, just like a regular live show, but in your living room instead of having to go to a theater. So good stuff there. That's shutupandgivememurder.com. Patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all of your bonus material. And we have tons of it up there.

Anybody $5 a month or above, you get the whole back catalog, tons of episodes, bonus stuff to go through, and two new episodes every other week. One crime and sports, one small-town murder, and you get it all. This week we have some really fun stuff. For crime and sports, we're going to talk about these old-timey death row baseball teams. death row baseball teams yeah there was these weird morbid baseball teams from like the early 1900s where you'll see a picture of like you know 15 guys that are doomed 15 doomed souls and like an eight-year-old kid as their bat boy all dressed in the same uniform hanging out in a prison yard we need to know what the hell's going on there so it's gotta be weird we're gonna talk all about that and for small town murder we're gonna talk about some very fun stuff. Defunct theme parks.

Oh, yes. Bad idea theme parks. It didn't work out. Maybe they were in the middle of nowhere trying to make it a draw, and there's still nobody there. Maybe it was just a bad idea. We'll talk about them. So much fun there. That is Patreon.

Disneyland works. Let's make Levi's land. Let's do it. Or Freedomland like they had in the Bronx. That didn't work. So that's Patreon.com slash Crime and sports is where you get all of that. And you'll get a shout out at the end of the show. Great.

That said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show. We are certainly comedians. We're going to make jokes and murder is going to happen. But what we do not do, we go out of our way not to do. So we try not to make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

Why, James? Because we're assholes. Yeah, but? But we're not scumbags. So that's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, man, do we have a crazy story for you.

Great to have you, yeah. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe we're not a good match. Maybe this is a bad first date

and we pay the check and we go our separate ways. We're goingutch other places to be we're splitting it because neither of us like each other so that's fine i'm not buying your fucking chicken no you keep that your chicken is on you but your glass of pinot is on you but so you got cheap shit for the rest of us though you got you got red with chicken what were you thinking for the rest of us though that want to hear a crazy story and have a good time, I think it's time to sit back. Where are you right now? What are you doing?

I don't care where you are. Are you a librarian at work? That's right. I want you to go over. Is it quiet in there? I want you to go over to the nearest eight-year-old. Knock the Curious George book out of his hand. Push him over in his chair.

Stand over his prone corpse and say, shut up and give me murder. Hopefully that kid isn't dead, but just in case. You shouldn't read that goddamn book anyway. You shouldn't be reading that, as we've talked about in Crime and Sports. Yeah, it's very weird. Bad stuff. So that said, let's go on a trip. Jimmy, what do you say?

We're going all the way to Arkansas this week week all right van buren arkansas yeah oh that one guy after the president martin van buren yeah martin martin van buren yeah and i only know that was pat in my head and i know i was like do we have a president named pat i know for for a fact, Pat Van Buren. That would have been a very, yes. I know he's the eighth president, only from the Seinfeld episode with the Van Buren boys. And Kramer accidentally held up his hands while holding, I think, grated cheese, I believe. Show number eight. Making the number eight, which is their sign, because he's the eighth president. Ridiculous.

So this is in West Arkansas, about two hours and 15 minutes to Little Rock, if you want to go to Little Rock for some reason. About three hours and 15 minutes to Ashdown, Arkansas, which was our last Arkansas episode. Free bird for life. If you remember that guy, that was fun. I do, and he was a lunatic. So this is in Crawford County, area code 479.

Very quickly, with the history of this here, the area was settled by two guys named David Boyd and Thomas Martin. This is in 1818. These people constructed lumber yards to serve as a fuel depot for traffic along the Arkansas River. So you'd stop off there to get fuel for your rig as you went by. So they built a post office in 1831. It was known as Phillips Landing then. And then the post office later on was named after a newly appointed Secretary of State and not even yet president, Martin Van Buren.

Yeah, he was just from Arkansas and was brought to be secretary of state, so they were naming shit after him. Imagine if they would have waited until he was president. They'd have named everything. It would be Martin Van Buren would be the name of the state. Whole damn place. Whole damn place. John Drennan, along with David Thompson, purchased this entire area for $11,000, by the way.

11 grand. The whole town was worth $11,000 originally. And you own it. And they own it all. So, yeah, that's when they started doing the firewood thing. 1996, it seems like some of this town was turned to firewood when April 21st at 11.12 p.m., an F3 tornado hit this area, causing shitloads of damage, obviously. I mean, you can imagine that. It spawned in Oklahoma and crossed over here and killed two people, injured 89 people, and caused $300 million in damage to an $11,000 town.

I think that's the whole tornado, but I don't know what it was in this town. There's no way this town was $300 million, right? No, I don't think so. What, to tear water pipes out of the ground? What more could it do? Well, the two fatalities were small children from Fort Smith. Oh, goddammit. That's kind of shitty there.

In 2019, there was a flood. So that's kind of shitty there. In 2019, there was a flood. The Arkansas River was suspected to crest at nearly 43 feet, which is 21 feet above the flood stage, which seems like a lot. 40 feet of river? Of river, which is double what it should be here. That's so deep uh all of the levees that that they had from the 40s held in place except for one spot where it wasn't there and uh it would have been worse though if they didn't have better levees but still it was a huge flood and a mess uh reviews of this town

let's talk about here we go five stars people seem to like this place really yeah they seem to like this place. Really? Yeah, they seem to dig it. Here's five stars. This person needs to expand their culinary palate, let's just say. Five stars. Very small. They've been on Tasty Freeze, yeah. Wait till you hear what they're fans of. Oh, boy. Very small, but not too small. That's nice.

Everywhere you go, you will recognize someone, from a pastor to your friend's parents. Okay, well, that sounds like a nightmare, but I'll continue. That's subjective. Everywhere you go, you see your very tight circle of your friends and their parents and your pastor. And your pastor, which is super weird. Everywhere you go, you see your pastor. That'd be creepy. Why are you everywhere?

You should get a restraining order, friend. This is a pornography theater. Why are you here? You should get a restraining order, friend. This is a pornography theater. Why are you here? Go home. There are many food selections. There's typical fast food burgers such as Wendy's and Burger King, pizza places like Domino's and Pizza Hut and Papa John's, Mexican restaurants like La Fiesta, Las Frisas, and more. Chicken from KFC and Zaxby's and ice cream places such as Brown's and Minga's. Yeah.

Wow. The city of Van Buren also has lots of school spirit supporting the love for the green and white pointer dogs. What is that? That's their mascot, apparently, the pointer dogs. Okay. Which is fine. I like them. I have a pointer dog, so that's fine.

All of them? Every one of them, damn it. Support them and eat at every chain restaurant that exists on Earth. Exactly. Food, the culinary here includes everything from ketchup to mayonnaise. Holy shit. Well, to salsa, too. Don't forget La Fiesta, Jimmy.

They have a La Fiesta over here. We ain't got guacamole, but we got salsa if you want it. That pizza hut has pretty good dress up. Ranch dressing and marinara. My God. Here's four stars. I've lived in Van Buren, Arkansas almost all my life, and I absolutely love it. I do think we need less banks and more upscale places to eat.

I've never heard of anyone go, there's too many damn banks around here. You have as many banks as you need. That's how banks work. They wouldn't be there if there was no money in it. Cleveland has a surprising number of them. They have a whole district. Holy shit.

The whole bank district we found stumbled upon the bank district. One street has like eight banks on it. Well, they need less banks and more upscale places to eat. I agree with you there. You need more places, upscale, downscale, any scale, just places. I also want to see more rehab centers here as there is only Harbor House. Okay.

So, less banks, more rehabs. That's what we need. That's not a sign of a thriving community well yeah that's a less commerce more more people stumbling back into coherence that's what we need nothing wrong with rehabs but just a weird take to have what's your institution to uh uh methadone clinic ratio around here? Yeah, it's a very odd holistic approach. Less banks. Less money. But less money, but more upscale places to eat.

So those doesn't make any sense. Here's four stars. Very simple to the point. I don't have a single issue. I feel completely safe. Oh. All right then. Good for you. Three stars. Very simple to the point. I don't have a single issue. I feel completely safe. Oh. All right, then. Good for you.

Three stars. It's okay. That's three stars. That's perfect. It's okay. He goes on. You're right. Okay.

It's three. I have a few tattoos, one of which covers half of my chest to my elbow. This draws attention of the police here. Put a shirt on, sir shirt on sir a couple years behind i guess they think i'm a hooligan but i'm a disabled veteran slash full-time student at independence university i get harassed quite a bit by them oh well though i serve this country and i don't care what police think i have a clean record this this is this guy frequently are you stopped if it how does how can they see your chest

tattoo friend if you've just while you're driving sleeve nobody fucking cares put your other arm up on the wheel and hold you i don't know what to tell you and put a shirt on uh yeah shirts are good also but i don't think i don't know about western arkansas shirt policies i think they're pretty pretty loosey-goosey over there when it comes to shirts. The places for fine dining, none of those require a shirt, I think. No, I mean some of them require shoes. Maybe, yeah. Let's not get sloppy here. Two stars.

Van Buren is a great town to grow your family in, but not the best place to profess in a degree. You need to go farther out of state for that. Progress. I think they spelled progress and got it okay that's what i think that is because otherwise i have no idea what the hell they're talking about so if you want to profess let's go give them the benefit of the doubt on that we'll profess the benefit of the doubt for this person and we will progress to the next category which is fantastic people there's's 23,812 people here, way more females than males. It's like over 53% female, which I can't explain that at all, but who knows?

Sounds great. There's a college in the area that might have something to do with it. The median age is 33.4, which is lower than normal. A lot of 25 to 34-year-olds as well for some reason. More people married than normal. A lot of 25 to 34-year-olds as well, for some reason. More people married than normal. More people are single with children than normal here. Really? Yeah, so people are getting together, fucking, and spitting some kids out.

And then getting rid of each other. Then going back out on the town. A race in this town, 73.6% white, 2.2% black, 4.4% Asian, 1.6% Native American, which is higher than the average, and 14.9% Hispanic here in this town. The religion, just about normal. About 50-50 is normal here. It's about 51%. But the highest is going to be, of course, 27% of the people here are Baptists. Baptists as fuck.

Baptists are, as we know, the Catholics of the South, obviously. So 0.0% Jewish in this county, Crawford County, last election. 20.6% voted Democratic, 77.2% Republican, 2.2% Independent. Median household income here is about $39,634 a year, which is about $15,000 lower than the national average. And the cost of living, though, where $100,000 would be regular, here it's $75,000, which is low, but the housing is the real low thing. Median home cost here, $127,700. Incredibly affordable. Incredibly affordable. Incredibly affordable. And if you are ready to afford it, we have for you the Van Buren, Arkansas real estate report.

Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $718. So that's pretty low. Here is a three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,489-square-foot house, 2.2 acres, big house, $1. What? It's an auction. $1 is your starting bid on this house. You've got to buy a ticket. It's also got a house.

Inside, it's full of shit. It looks like whoever was in this house just dematerialized. They were beamed to another planet and left everything. I'm talking there's like a thing of like six pack of paper towels on the kitchen table still. Like shit like that.

Looks like someone went to... Sincerely lived in it. They went to Costco, came home, and then just were beamed to Mars. And then now it's on the market for an auction. Yeah, they had to go to Costco to get those things here. All of this could be yours, everybody. Come on in.

Here is a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,356-square-foot house. Oh, boy. It's nice. It's a nice starter house. You know, you've got a couple of kids and whatever. Sounds like a tornado softball. Yeah, it's not bad, though. It's brick and wood on the outside, so it looks sturdy.

It doesn't look like it's going to be at least taken to the next county, maybe. It'll be knocked to the ground, but not taken away. It's a real weird-looking house, though. It's got some very beige inside. A lot of beige. It's very neutral. It's nothing exciting. $225,000, though.

So, nice house it's you know yeah got a nice big yard and things like that so not too bad uh and here is here's the jewel here um five bedroom three bath 3510 square feet good size house good house yeah nice a lot of house a lot of house five and a half acres oh it's a good amount of property and it's got two big fountains outside that are like right next to each other for some reason this is our fountain section over here we just put our fountains our water moves we're gonna get four or five more it's just gonna be a big old section inside everything's green really green like green like pea green oh great great yeah Really? Green. Like. Green. Like. Pea green. Oh.

Bright pea. Yeah. Like not dark. Not like a hunter. Vomit. Awful. Disgusting. Lots of green.

Toxic green. It's the whole house. It's throughout. Toxic waste green. Toxic waste scary green. It is awful. Antifreeze green. There's a lot to do inside of this house. Let's just put it that way.

To make your eyes be able to adjust to this fucking place. $599,000 for this little gem. That's so affordable. Five acres and all you got to do is get rid of the green? It's not all, Jimmy. It's not all. You get in there and go, I don't even know where to start in this place. It needs some help on the inside.

And then the fast food chain factory of your life awaits. You're set. You can go right on down to the La Fiesta and settle in for a meal. Things to do in this town. Yeah. The Crawford County Fair. Yeah, of course. It's in Mulberry, which is nearby. Okay.

Just in case you're planning on going, don't just show up in Van Buren. Don't go expecting it's right around the corner. Come on now, Christ almighty. So I have the schedule here um on the saturday schedule on august 27th this must be a preliminary from 8 a.m to 11 a.m it's poultry blood testing what you gotta test to make sure they're not on any coke or you know these poultry nowadays they're doing a lot the fentanyl gets in their system. You know how it is. You don't want that.

Make sure this meat's safe. You know, got to blood test it there. It's random. They just pull your number. You have to go. It's like the NFL. Blood test. The next couple weeks from then is the barbecue cook-off setup.

Then there's a rodeo on September 9th. Of course there is. Rodeo with Rafter J. I don't know if there's a rodeo on september 9th of course there is rodeo with rafter jay i don't know if that's i don't know if that's a bull a person the mc the clown i have no clue who that usually teaches all the raft and down on the down on the arkansas river but today here he is he usually rides a blown up uh inner tube he's gonna ride our bull with a fan motor on it like a big fan like the swamp boats in florida this is the arkansas crocodile dundee is grafter jay he wears a big vest a big old vest when he when he rides the bulls oh man uh there's a horse show

on september 11th uh there's a september 11th september 11 doing that on on the on the saddest day that this this country has ever experienced horse show horse show come on trot around there feller never forget y'all that's the that's the name of the second entrance never forget y'all that's the horse's name you didn't know that wow so have you been did you read the i didn't know you were doing research ahead of time, Jimmy. Wow, I'm impressed. I really am.

These are our two horses we're putting in. This one's called North Tower. This one's called South Tower. That's good. And this one's called Mohammed El Habib. I can't remember any of the hijackers' names. I apologize. I know that was very stereotypical.

That's probably good, though. Like, seven of them's names was Mohammed. Mohammed, yes. That's pretty close. That's pretty close. So, Monday, September 12th at 10 a.m., all goats, sheep, and dairy cattle must enter. All of them. Bring them in.

You have to. You have no choice. cattle must enter all of them you have to this is it at one o'clock the poultry entrance happens followed by the rabbit entry as well bring on bring your rabbits um then tuesday the 13th family night one dollar per person or one canned food item per person so getting in pretty cheap here a dollar or a canned food yep the broiler show at 9 a.m i don't know what that is poultry judging the rabbit show dairy goat show and the conclusion of the rabbit show i guess they hold that out for last that's your big whole week of livestock oh it's all it is there's the hogs and cattle entry at 12 home economics building the hay show is at 6 30 the hay show oh oh boy look at that hay

right there oh man that looks like good hay right there it looks moist but not not like moldy the hay show then are we looking at how it was bailed or how it's growing i don't know it's a hay show what is what could be so impressive well why would how could that draw an audience that's what i want to know what what are they doing with hay work and draw an audience mutton busting at 7 p.m yeah of course gotta get the kids on the livestock gotta have that then there's the heifer way in at 8 p.m gotta have those um oh boy the market goats breeding sheep and breeding goat expo show that's going on um there's a carnival a gospel night happens on september 14th it's wednesday gotta have gospel night uh

then what is this the thursday junior junior princess little miss and junior miss pageants all go on these right now oh boy well the friday 16th, that's Friday night, is when the real main event happens. Here we go. The Teenie Princess. Oh, my. And the Tiny Princess and the Little Princess pageant as well, followed by a costume contest, which I would love it to be the one who wins would be I went as a 16-year-old girl and I'm actually a 45-year-old man, and I won.

Yay, I won two contests in one night. That would be hilarious. There's a youth talent competition. Then there's a junior queen, queen, Ms., senior, Ms. pageant. We're going to judge all of your faces. Every woman, get in here. Anybody with a vagina, come to the arena for judgment. Be there.

We will tell you why we will not fuck you. Babies right up to great grandmas. Bring them all in. It's it's judge the ladies not. I do not like this at all. That is wild, man. Holy shit. I can't believe it still happens.

That is like a lot. And there's like mutton busting and all this type of shit going on in between there. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in. Property crime is over the average, actually. It's about 25% high. Yeah. Things are going down here. I don't know why, but they are.

That's what happens when you tell some woman that you won't fuck her. I guess so. She'll light your shit on fire. You judge granny, she'll poison your pie that's how it goes uh violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is also above average here uh-huh it's about you know 10 15 20 above average it's high they're mad these people are pissed off in this town which is hilarious because we need to talk about a murder now let's talk about a murder shall we let's do it and they are mad because this story uh a good chunk of the story by the way some you know really good detail comes from a book

and the book is called blind rage so they're just they're so mad so. It's called Blind Rage, a true story of sin, sex and murder in a small Arkansas town. Maybe stop telling people that they're not as pretty as this other person like that sincerely hurts. I guess so. Starts right. This is a well, you know what? It's kind of what happened here, too, as we'll find out. God, I can't wait it's uh there's no pageants involved but other than that this really goes along with the town stuff it's a perfect setup this week outstanding let's talk about some people here

shall we okay let's talk about ruey ann park okay i think r-u-i-e ruey yeah right that's really yeah ruey ruey and right yeah ruey and park okay i mean when you name somebody something you can pronounce letters any way you can do it any way you want oh i've seen just it could just be we don't know i see well i know they're two separate words and when she's being kind of when she's being um kind of a to people, then you must call her by both names. But if she's just being... That's her way of having some control over you. Okay. She's a character here.

Really? Rui Anne Park here. Ms. Park is a character. Let's just say that. She is born in 1905. Oh. Yeah. She's been around a while.

Sure has. She is married to a man named hugh uh hugh park they huey and ruey huey and ruey ann yeah huey and ruey um they huey ruiz huey ruiz oh jimmy oh my god i want to name this couple so bad. So many times right to their face. You know, you just want them to be,

you want them to be an Asian couple that does, that does rock covers at karaoke night. So bad. Oh my, I'm going to lose consciousness. So bad. Oh, my. I'm going to lose consciousness. Happy birthday, Jimmy. Bust a blood vessel. It's Jimmy's birthday today, and he's going to explode a blood vessel in celebration of it.

If she is Asian and they do duets, people call them Huey Ru call them and their last name is park also which makes them sound korean but they're not they're they're as white as they can as you can be she claims to be a descendant from the mayflower people so that's how that's how you know we're talking extremely extremely white people and they're upper crusty too this couple oh yeah they think of themselves as kind of kind of above a lot of the people in town uh a bit here uh they have a baby in 1932 that lives one day and then oh no dies and has no name it's just baby girl park is what's on the what's on the gravestone yeah when was this the 1932 oh it was during the depression you can't you couldn't afford a name if you just weren't gonna you know probably couldn't afford that

baby that's probably what i don't know yeah i don't know what it was that happened so uh they're both into news and history and um yeah like absorbing information you gave the noon news radio report from the second floor of the of the newspaper building for a long time. Huey Ruiz gives the news? Huey Ruiz gives the news. They do. They own a newspaper. That's amazing.

Isn't that wild? How crazy is that? Is that amazing or what? i can't get enough it's fucking wild this is the best couple that's ever yeah i mean they're really writing their own story honestly they don't need us really so amazing um they were co-owners of the and founders of the Press Argus newspaper, which I've actually gotten stuff out of for murders before. Yes. I like a newspaper archive. So I was like the Press Argus. I know that newspaper. Holy shit. So that's pretty wild. We actually, you know, six degrees of separation from this couple. We've been we've talked sort of through them before so or they've talked through us i should say so uh they own that paper she says she was a member of a pioneer arkansas family her

family is one of the first in arkansas everything's the first the first with her um yeah she's a retired school teacher later on she'll be a school teacher, then retire. She fancies herself the town historian. Okay. All right. She knows things you don't know. Absolutely. She knows everything. And she'll definitely tell you that you don't know anything also.

She not only wants to tell you what she knows, she wants to tell you that you don't know. Is she a hard woman to be around? A little bit, yeah. She's a little bit difficult to be around. woman to be around? A little bit, yeah. She's a little bit difficult to be around. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later,

what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts a little bit exacting um she's difficult uh she was the founder of the van buren garden club

and the crawford county historical association so garden club the garden club and the Crawford County Historical Association. Garden club. The garden club and the historical association. She founded both of those. So is she the one giving awards for like best lawn and shit like that? I don't know if that or if it's just, yeah, maybe it's the way they, I don't know what the, what the fuck does a gardening club do? I have no idea. Do they give awards?

Best tulips? I don't know. I guess they probably. In the historic district of cities, they give like best gardenips i don't know i guess they probably have cities they give like best garden and best yeah oh they have like walking tours and shit like that yeah there's towns in upstate new york that do that and it's like and then you get to have that plaque in your front yard all year james it's a fucking huge deal oh ruey ruey ruis in the news said we have the best fucking look at us the best posy we have the best fucking. Look at us. We have the best posies. We have the best fucking tulips of all.

Look at our daffodils outshining. Phyllis. Yeah. That's what I said. Your daffodils can suck it, bitch. That's what I'm talking about. What did I fucking tell you before this started? Get some weak daffodils, Phyllis.

Salt the earth, bitch. It's over. Give up. Start over. Start over. Start over. So, yeah, she did all that kind of shit. Also a member of the Van Buren Historic District and the Women's Literary Guild as well. That's got to be what it is.

She's got to be part of that, like, really nice area of town. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And she gives a fuck and wants wants to see everybody give a fuck about their place she keeps her house like a palace and everybody says that her son has a nickname for it we'll talk about all this really oh yeah yeah they she's she's one got a bubble hill she's the type of mother and matriarch that the people in the family when she's not around spend most of the

time talking about her you know what i'm saying oh how tough she is she did this she said that she's one of those people you know like you've ever had jobs like that where if everybody's hanging out outside of work they're just talking about what a dick the owner of the company is or she's that type of person where it's difficult she's difficult to get along with she's a member of the general society of mayflower descendants of america of course wow across the country she's part of that shit too uh daughters of the american revolution and the pilgrim john howland society holy yeah she's doing a lot of shit man she fancies herself as a very important person oh she absolutely thinks she's a very important person and she believes that everyone should be

and probably is looking up to her as they should be whereas most of the people think she's just kind of a she's kind of a stuffy you know kind of one of those ladies that just kind of people go oh Jesus they roll their eyes at her type of thing but she's a smart lady and she does a lot and she's accomplished I would say so that's not easy and to do all those things she's founding you know societies I don't know how to do

that you know how to found a society I don't know how to do any of that you probably need paperwork there are lazy ways I'm sure we could just all get together but to have a sign and stuff you got to call somebody and have a make it and decide on a font stationary yeah stationary do we have to do is there tax implications here do we need to fill out anything letterhead who does that is that me do i want to see i'm done. I don't want to start a club anymore. See? She did all that stuff. She's got several of them.

She did everything. So here's a quote from Anita Paddock, who wrote the Blind Rage book. She's the author of the book, in case you're going to buy it. She said, quote, she wanted to be involved in everything. She thought she was a real upper-crust lady. That's what she said. She said, I wouldn't say she had any enemies, but she did not have a nice personality. That's the author of the book.

It's nobody would dispute that. Okay. There's nobody who would say, no, she's a sweet old lady. She's, you know, she's a big teddy bear. Nobody says that. Everybody goes, yeah, she's a tough one. Tough lady. So Hugh and Rui have a son in 1942.

So no kids between dead baby girl Park and. 52? 42. So 10 years go by. 10 years go by. That's a long time. Yeah, she's 37 here. Back then, 37 was old to have a kid back then.

I mean, they would be like, oh, man, it's going to come out all cross-eyed and stuff. Right. They didn't. He's going to do the rest of his life. Yeah. Nowadays, it's a lot different, obviously. Women have kids into their 40s and it's with a lot better success. Back then, it was not really like that. They would go, you're pushing it, lady.

So Sam, the son's name is Sam Hugh Park. And everyone calls him, the whole family calls him Sam Hugh. To his face? His name is, yeah. They don't just say Sam, even though he's the only Sam. It would make sense if dad's name was Sam, too, and he's Sam Hugh. So you call him Sam Hugh. Nope, just not Sam hugh what the fuck that's so much extra effort i don't get why you'd call him

that you don't go from to and in like one fluid motion sam hugh yeah yeah you got almost got to take a breath in between yeah that's what i mean or either that or you just end up calling him sam you go sam you go sam you that's who you'd be yeah you just take off the l that's it yeah fuck it samuel that's it sam you so sam hugh park he's born in 42 and when he's five years old the couple decides you know we're not i wish we had more kids that'd be nice so but you know pushing it on age wise and she's 42 now and adopt uh well they decide let's adopt yeah yeah why not and this is you know this is uh what 1947 they're adopting here's right after the war people have good feelings old yeah exactly so they adopt

a seven-year-old girl which is great hold. Hold on. You're going to adopt my older sister? An older sister. You can't do that to me. But that's nice because – Keeps you the baby forever. Also, well, not just that. For Sam, I'm saying it's a nice thing to do to adopt a seven-year-old because kids have a shelf life when it comes to adoption of how desirable they are to adopt. 16-year-olds are not so cute.

Yeah. You need to have diapers on, which is weird. You'd think they'd want, like, as soon as they're out of diapers, give them to me. Then you get it. Yeah. All right. For some reason, though, diapers seem to be the big thing. Once they're out of diapers, you're like, oh, I don't know.

That kid's... Yeah, your body training is still here. That dog's two. I don't know what it's been through. You know? I don't want to bite my kids. It's one of those things. But it's nice to do because seven-year-old kids, it's a little kid.

They need a family. Yeah. Adoption is kind of like comedy. It doesn't get easier as you get older. No, it gets much more difficult. No one's looking for you. What are you, a 51-year-old opener? No one's looking for you. And what are you, a seven-year-old family 51 year old opener no one's looking for you

and what are you a seven-year-old family-less kid no one's looking for you either sorry no you gotta really push through to the you gotta be the best to come through you better catch the rising stars looking for seven-year-olds yeah because you're in deep shit so linda that her name is linda the little girl linda linda susan park linda sue linda sue so she'll later on be uh martin she'll it'll be her married name but she's linda sue park um so her she's she was very uh shy and very skittish as a young lady which again she's seven and seven you know foster homes and shit in a 40s orphanage too we're not talking about we're talking about like little orphan Annie shit like you know think about old-timey orphanages as yeah it seems very scary and dark they're scary today and they're cameras everywhere

yeah and there's for christ's sake you know people that there's all oversights of them back then there was no oversight really of this shit they just they said oh that's nice you're taking care of those kids whatever happens in there is fine we don't want to take care of them so hey man with a handful of dildos take these children and take care of them there you go please so the problem is she's very much afraid of her own shadow she's very jumpy she's very skittish and within a month uh the mom was saying that it was a mistake to adopt her oh my god not to her face but right telling you like telling her husband like we shouldn't have done this this is difficult and you know it's yeah if you're going to adopt a seven-year-old it's probably

not going to be smooth sailing you're signing up for a difficult thing right out of the gate yeah you sign up to climb a mountain it's not a you're climbing a fucking mountain you can't go jesus what is this a mountain when you're halfway through it i'm really out of breath good christ man it's high up here right we're not even are we there yet are we god damn it ah shit it's all the way up there so but hugh said no you know it'll be fine it'll be fine it'll be fine um here's a quote from that author of the book quote when she first got linda she dressed her up in these cute little dresses big bows in her hair and it was like look me. I'm the most magnanimous woman. I've got this little girl out of the orphanage.

But people saw through that. Yeah. So they everybody thought it was like she was just adopting this kid as like a prop, almost a prop, like a like she had an Instagram account or something. Right. I mean, this was going to be advantageous to her business of whatever the fuck. So it's very strange. She's a real shy kid and not very – she's not as smart as Sam Hugh.

Well, yeah, they don't – Sam Hugh is a very smart kid and she's not as smart, which, I mean, some people aren't as smart as some people. That's all. Also, this 7-year-old has probably not been given the gift of decent schooling. She's probably been passed from school to school. She may have been from orphanage to orphanage, foster home to foster. Who fucking knows? We don't know.

And who knows if maybe if all else was equal, maybe just some people are smarter than other people. That's true, too. Some people are just born with a – there's a people way smarter than us. We know that, and that's fine. Sometimes it takes two – I mean, you look look at a puppy you get to see its parents some i mean yeah i mean you don't get a you don't get a seven-year-old and get to have a gander over the yeah let's take a stock she comes from she may come from dipshits let's see the teeth pull up pull up the you don't get to sometimes i wonder why i'm not a brilliant person and then oh yeah he's my dad

yeah you don't get to look people over in 1947 anyway yeah so that's good that's good so you're taking a chance with a kid is what we're saying so and yeah i mean you're having a kid for christ's sake you have to you got to be in for all of it absolutely once you adopt them that's they're your kid at that point responsibility mom was very overbearing with linda though everybody said that would pick out her clothes and force her to wear what she wanted her to wear which was fine uh but she would have her wear shit that like ruby would wear yeah Like stuff that she thought was good, which is not what a teenager in 1955 wanted to wear. You know what I mean? Nice things from 1912 are not nice things in 1955.

A high-collared Victorian dress isn't exactly what's cool in 57 while Elvis is on TV. What the fuck are these buckles on my shoes? Yeah, this is a completely different deal here. We're talking, you know, those poodle skirts and all that kind of shit it was hot at that point so pushing boundaries about what can show too absolutely um so the the kids too sam hugh and linda never really too close growing up right even though they're only two years apart they were um they would fight as kids you know that sort of shit she's gonna hold a little bit of resentment too he'd call her names um

fuck sam when he got she got to be a teenager you know as he would call her names he'd call her olive oil and fig newton for some reason what is that i don't know why fig newton is she what disgusting on the inside with a delicious cookie thing on the outside and is that? I don't know why Fig Newton. Is she, what, disgusting on the inside with a delicious cookie thing on the outside? Is that all she eats? Yeah. We've talked about this before. The outside of a Fig Newton is magic and the inside is you can tar your fucking driveway with. Except there's little seeds in it, too, to make it.

I could tolerate it minus the seeds. I can't tolerate. Oh, crunch. Gee, that was. They get stuck in between a molar. the seeds i can't tolerate oh crunch gee that was they get stuck in between a molar yeah get that shit out what's going on here i don't want this in a cookie i felt it crack and then i felt my teeth go apart now i can't move it they get to heat this shit and patch the roofs the holes on my roof what is this one fucking newton and i need a floss stick this is terrific

but that cookie oh man oh that cookie oh the softness that's so good so sam hugh was allowed to drive the family car but she wasn't for some reason she's older and so yeah stuff like that you're darling you're not smart enough to drive. Like if you need a ride, ask your brother once he turned 16 is a weird thing to do. Wait a couple of years. I'll take you to school when you're 18. Yeah. Jesus Christ. You got going to have to drop out until then.

You can go get credit and buy your own car, but or you can wait for a child to drive you around. One of the two. It's up to you she had to and mom mom expected her to have great grades and be you know not embarrass her essentially so and she had to work really hard to get those grades she had to study very hard it didn't come easy whereas the brother sam h Sam Hugh, never studied, had all A's. All the teachers would tell mom, you know, your kid's a genius and he's really smart and all that kind of shit.

And mom said he is the smartest young boy in the world. Yeah. I mean, dead child, him, and then she's got like a dead and an adopted child on both sides. And then her little magical boy here so it's kind of how it how it was and linda knew about it and she resented it and you know and she knew and i don't know it sucks and having been adopted at an age that you can remember right like not not just remember that but you remember like how bad it was for you. Exactly.

And then you remember getting a family. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, if you're adopted when you're a year and a half old, you want to be treated the same as your siblings and you, you, you're a fucking family or you remember us all being here. But if you came in at seven, you might come in with an attitude of i don't want to rock the boat i just don't i don't want to be sent back to an orphanage right you know what i mean and that might linger with you for a long time a inferiority complex i could i can imagine a little a little bit here um now the press argus went out ended up going out of business, as most newspapers did at a certain time here.

Now, Hugh and Rui divorce in the late 60s. Yeah. Oh. They get a divorce. Absolutely. Is Linda old enough to be on her own, or does she have to pick one? Yeah. No, Linda's like 28 when this happens.

Yeah, this is like the late 60s. Shit, that's a long time to stick together to yeah you need a divorce for now yeah what are you doing he ends up remarrying in a couple years and everything he gets back out there he's gonna give a shit you is slinging some ding-a-ling over here he doesn't care at all he's like let's do it 60 year old man he's had enough of this lady just wants to be happy who wants some who I can newspaper ink all over his hands i'm ready it's my time so remarrying she would always people said you'd always see her down at the courthouse she'd be like looking up weird shit marriage licenses divorce decrees tax liens historical shit she's always looking up but she's like nosy too, so she might just be looking up people's shit.

She's always publishing articles in historical journals around the state, and she's doing all that sort of thing. From an article they say, the sheriff remembered about her the most is he'd see her, she always looked like she just woke up, and she would forget to dye her,

or comb her hair she had like dyed red hair and it'd be all over the place uh but she'd always have bright lipstick and rosy red rouge on her cheeks did her makeup and fuck the hair and she wore galoshes even on sunny warm days oh boy she's a fascinating woman she is character. Let's just say that. I found a newspaper article from like 1965 where she was injured in a car accident here. She was hospitalized. She was 61 at the time. So that was 1966. And she's hospitalized.

She's in the car. Let's see here. Mary Frances is her friend. No, her daughter's friend. Harold Martin and Linda are her daughter and her daughter's soon-to-be fiancé. So an unidentified man stopped his car in the line of traffic to talk to a driver going the opposite direction and caused a fucking pileup. What are you doing, you asshole? Hey, buddy. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Just slamming. Hey doing, you asshole? Hey, buddy.

Thanks. Thanks a lot. Just slamming. Hey, is that Bill? Stop the car. Stop in the middle. Shit, gotta say hello. In the middle of the intersection, and the unidentified man left the scene of the accident as well.

Never mind. I thought it was Bill, but it wasn't. Just keep driving. Shit, damn, I'm going to be in trouble. Oh, Jesus, this isn't good so uh linda and sam hugh both go to the university of arkansas oh very very different experiences there though we'll say yeah linda has a hard time he flies through it goes to law school sam hugh oh yeah sam hugh is really does some highfalutin shit over here he's really suey

piggin huh you bet your ass uh she meets howard uh howard martin in uh college there and he is her first and only boyfriend up to this point yeah um they she said that she found him she thought he was cute because he had a he was in the Navy and he had a short haircut. And it was in the late 60s and all the college kids had longer hair. So she thought it was like she liked to make fun of him for it. Look at you. You're a dork and all that kind of shit. But they didn't go hang out and drink beer and do all the normal shit.

They went to church parties when all the other kids are going to keg parties. Oh, boy. Yeah, that's how they are she by the way ruey highly religious big in her church and all that kind of shit as well so 1966 is when uh linda gets engaged to howard and they're going to get married there's a big announcement in the paper yeah in the society section of the newspaper. Oh, yeah. The Northwest Arkansas Times I got this from. There is a big fucking picture of her, probably a 16th of the page. A big giant. Come on down to the Martin Park wedding. A big picture of her.

And it says, yeah, it's been the engagement of Miss Linda Susan Park to Howard L. Martin has been announced by Mrs. Rui Anne Park of Van Buren, mother of the future bride. So they go on, blah, blah, blah. So even when she gets married, Howard basically takes over the role of mom. What do you mean? Howard picks out all her clothes now. Oh, what? Yeah.

She can't operate, though though she's always had her mother doing all of this shit and i don't know if she doesn't want to i don't know if she wants to be you know cared for like that or if this is just like she comes from a domineering place and found some other domineering person because of that you know what i mean we don't know um it's it's i'd like to know how that role began i'd like to see be there for the fucking conversation that's right yeah i'll pick out your shit dear like what why aren't you dressed you didn't put my clothes out that's why jesus because she's just standing there in her bra and underwear let's go it's really fucking strange though that i don that I don't know.

I can't imagine telling your wife, I'm going to pick out your clothes for you. Like, what? Or if they were like, I'm picking out your clothes for you without asking, he'd be like, I'm good. I can dress myself. Yeah. Or she'd just sit at the edge of the bed and just naked and be like, where are my clothes? What do I do? I don't understand.

So 1974, Hugh, dad dad dies of a heart attack oh damn it pretty sudden heart attack he'd been remarried and all that kind of thing so banging away he's banging away i see the heart attack was after like number four for the day and he was just his heart gave out it was weak he was too weak he couldn't do it anymore. He was like 70 years old, and it all fell apart. Now, Hugh got along with Linda very well. Linda and Hugh were close, and she was more of a daddy's girl than anything to do with her mom. So Linda was very upset by this, obviously. But she started— I think you don't understand.

This is a girl that may have been through trauma. Oh, yeah, yeah. This may be just a protector and father figure that she's always wanted. I don't know what happened to her original parents, too. Both her parents might have died when she was four. We have no idea. So this might be just another, yeah, we might be really stirring it up. So now, Rui's house, okay?

Sam Hu calls it the Winter Palace. Oh, boy. That's what he calls it. Now, a friend has asked him why he called it that and this is the answer that he sam hugh gave quote read the book shadow over the winter palace it's about the russian czar nicholas the second and his crazy wife that's the only explanation he gives no motherfucker don't give me homework tell me why you call it this go read a book fuck you you just assigned me literature what are you talking about it's about the russian

czar nicholas ii how about you synthesize it into a fucking two sentences and tell me why you call it that asshole it's like a girl breaking up with you be like why do you want to break up she's like go listen to this album what no no i'm not listening to your whole mixtape i don't want to try to glean the reason yeah tell me i made an asshole out of myself in front of your friends say that go listen to casey and jojo no you listen to yeah i'm not listening to fucking i'll be sure kiss my ass why we picked 1989 as a time when this is happening tell me why you don't like me god damn it uh i found an article from 75 where it says ua meaning university of arkansas library gets civil war letters the letters were donated to the library by mrs ruyan smith park of van buren uh who long has had an active interest

in the history of arkansas in the van buren area uh she has a special interest in the history of Arkansas in the Van Buren area. She has a special interest in the genealogy of the Shibley family, of which the two brothers were members of and which was prominent in the Van Buren area. So it was 47 letters written from 1862

to 1863 by William Henry Harrison Shibley. William Henry Harrison Shibley. That's not the president, I don't think. That's a different guy. And Henry Harrison Shibley. William Henry Harrison Shibley. That's not the president. I don't think that's a different guy. And John Samuel Shibley. So there you go. They were people in the Arkansas infantry.

And this year of letters matters to her a lot. Yeah. She collected them and she gave them to the university who are going to publish them in some kind of, I don't know know academic volume or whatever the shit so linda and her husband howard they end up having three kids over the 70s they have three boys so uh yeah three boys um uh now sam hugh on the other hand doing his legal stuff senator william fulbright uh apparently every knew h, knew the dad, which the dad owned a newspaper. He's going to know a lot of prominent people, for Christ's sake. She thinks she's in the upper crusty shit.

We're going to have senators as friends. Yeah. Well, apparently Senator Fulbright owed Hugh Park a favor. Oh. So I don't know how you get into senators' debt, but that seems probably shady. I don't know how you get in the senator's debt but it's that seems probably shady i don't know um sounds like you may have written a couple of things for him that were beneficial or they might know each other personally and he you know i have no idea yeah exactly took him up to that cabin that he told them all about that time we don't know uh so they had a wonderful

romantic weekend up there it was beautiful you park Hugh Park Sr. and Senator William Fulbright massaged each other's bulbous, hairy bodies with lotions and oils before laying out on a bearskin rug in front of a roaring fire and exploring each other with the ferocity of a bobcat. Maybe that's what happened. They both came home to their wives. Oh, they came home, all right. And the scratches on their back. Yeah. And the stains on the bear skin.

Of various hues. Not hue, hues. The first one was very yellow. Very yellow. The other one was definitely more in the brown range so they got uh senator fulbright apparently got sam hugh a job as an assistant united states prosecutor wow yeah he's an attorney i mean he goes he passes the bar and all that um by the way there's always a little bit of always a little bit of animosity between Howard, who is Linda's husband, and Sam Hugh. They both went to Arkansas at the same time and are both attorneys. But Sam Hugh is like, he's very smart, top of the class, and passed the bar on the first time.

And Howard's chasing ambulances. It took Howard two or three tries to pass the bar and so there's a little bit of jealousy there you know okay it's that kind of thing uh so he had an office in the federal courthouse at Fort Smith and uh you know he was there and then he opened up an office of his own after about a year so that way he had a credit he's like a comic he's like i can tour now he's on a sitcom for about a year now he's got a credit he's going out there god damn it recurring character i was i was the neighbor i was neighbor number one i was like the fourth lead so you know my name came up in the beginning of the show i wasn't even and later on i was like the starring yeah there's like six of us and i was

like fourth so that's pretty good so um he does all of that he starts his own thing everybody knew he was very smart people called him the smartest man in the county all the time oh my uh he made good money but his personal life is a bit of in a bit of a shambles, Sam Hugh. Sam Hugh, first of all, Sam Hugh is gay. Okay. So that's fine. But I assume it's difficult to be gay in the 70s in Arkansas. I bet it's difficult today. In Arkansas?

Yeah. Yeah, especially in Arkansas. I bet it's difficult to be straight in Arkansas. It's just difficult in Arkansas. I bet it's difficult to be straight in Arkansas. It's just difficult in Arkansas. I don't think your sexuality has a fucking thing to do with it, if we're being honest here. You might be right. Sorry, Arkansas. But, you know.

So, I'm just saying. And he's open or is he closeted? Everybody knows about it. I mean, he doesn't go out. He doesn't, like, come into a room. Right. He just walks in and everybody goes well that guy's clearly gay they just know everybody knows it's like professionally it's not a secret at all but you know i don't know how quote unquote open he is but got it it's it's known it's a it's a small town you're not gonna

you know what i mean you're not gonna hide they know if that you've been up at the cabin with the rug. They understand that. They know what's going on. So he liked to party a lot and spent his money, just really pissed his money away. A lot of liquor, a lot of liquor, a lot of younger guys as he starts to even push in his 30s, a lot of guys that are in their early 20s, shit like that. A lot of people he would just like people from that just got out of the county jail, young guys that he liked, he would take them in. He's a bad boy. Sometimes he'd be supporting as many as two or three guys at the same time, young guys that would be coming to his house.

Yeah, he's partying. I mean, if you replace it with young guy, went to law school, hot shot lawyer, now he's banging all these chicks, going out, spending liquor. He's got two, three different chicks he's banging. Sometimes he's supporting them. He goes to the strip club and finds strippers. We'd be like, well, I mean, yeah, he's living the life he wants to lead. So it's kind of – it's just the gay version of that. That's all.

You better protect yourself. If you're picking up chicks from the gay version of that that's all you better protect yourself if you're picking up checks from the county jail you gotta protect yourself you better think yeah a little bit about who you're bringing into your home you're gonna get some kai the hitchhiker hatchet wielding hitchhikers once in a while is the problem one or two for sure so he lives uh toward the late 70s he lives in one of his mother's three rental houses. His mother has three different houses that she rents out and her own home, the Winter Palace, of course. She did fine. They're one of the wealthier families in town as well.

So, I mean, they owned a newspaper. Again, how do you start a newspaper? You know how to do that, Jimmy? We can't even start a gardening club. We went through this. We can't start a gardening club. I don't know how we started this podcast. I don't know how. I that jimmy we can't even start a gardening club we went through this we can't start a gardening club i don't know how we started this podcast i don't know how i don't know how we figured out where to put it and how to get it out to people this is shocking the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of people listening right now is shocking it's crazy absolutely

mind-boggling because we don't know how to do anything. Either of us. We're totally dumb. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing

secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

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Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And when I do know also that when newspapers were thriving, once they were started and started thriving, holy fuck, they did not go away until a giant invention clobbered them. They stuck around for, and they were, holy fuck, lucrative. They were very lucrative.

And then in the seventies, you started to get consolidation where the big boys were buying up all the, all the small ones like radio did later on. But that was great for those little ones because the guys that found it and the families that stuck around, they had huge money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you'd start to not have those little regional papers because they would cancel those. So, their bigger paper would have more circulation. And then, obviously, once the internet came, that was that. Yeah, we don't need you.

Now, yeah. Now we have somewhere else to get the wrong information. What is this dirty thing I'm holding? Yeah, somewhere else to go. The house he lives in is right across the street from the Winter Palace. Directly across the street. So she owns that house. He's kind of a fuck up as a lawyer because because I mean, he's okay as a lawyer, but

he's hung over a lot. He's partying a lot. He's not concentrating really. Um, but there's not that many lawyers in town. So he does fine to work anyway because people need a lawyer. And so they go to him and, um, he has a secretary as well that he employs. So he has enough money to make a living support some dudes and you know that get out of county and have a secretary is he working prosecutor or defense he's a defense

attorney he was a prosecutor then he opened up his you can't be a freelance prosecutor i'm gonna open up my own office you i'm gonna put you in jail who do you work for myself okay i'm my own police force yeah making cases just made your own badge out of something put it on hi so um land of the free i'm making i'm doing it incredible yeah uh they he fights with his mom a lot really yeah linda lives a couple hours away she linda lives by little rock in a town called cabot which is a couple hours away out of here yeah yeah with her husband and does all that he lives across the street oh no which is a little too enmeshed you know what i mean that's in her line of sight for that's

that's too far she can say why is the yard so long cut it like shit like that why are you in that room yeah they fight all the time a lot of the fights are about all the guys that she brings that he brings home all the time and that live there and you know everything she said that you know that uh they ruined all these guys are ruining the neighborhood yeah there is that downside of living that close and also renting from your fucking mother. That's the way you got to get out on your own, out on your own. He has he has one guy who is kind of always around, kind of a boyfriend, sort of like they're the most together. But yeah, but they also they also he has other they're like, they're not an item, but they're an item.

You know what I mean? They're not exclusive, I guess I should say. They're not going steady, but they're very associated with each other. So much so that he's, the guy's name is Santos. He was actually invited to Thanksgiving dinner at Rui Anne's house. Okay. Even though she doesn't like him. She invited, there. And she insisted that he call her Rui Anne's house. Okay. Even though she doesn't like him. She invited there and she insisted that he call her Rui Anne to Santos.

Yeah. You are not that familiar. Don't just call me by my first name. Yes. Well, it's a weird thing because she, in one aspect likes the fact that she's very much into church and Christianity.

So she's very much likes the fact that he's like collecting wayward souls, quote unquote, type of deal. But she's also, you know, it troubles her that what he's doing with those souls. You know what I mean? We're saving them, but yeah, he's sure wish we didn't have to see him that much. She's she's she's a little upset that something from the these souls are dribbling down her son's chin that's bothering her you got a little soul right there on your chin we're saving them not sucking them would you take it easy what are we doing um the ron fields who's the former sebastian county prosecuting attorney said quote he was gay at the time when it wasn't

politically correct to be gay and that caused a lot of people to dislike him. He said the police agencies in particular didn't like him very much. He's also a defense attorney, so they don't like them anyway. He said fascinating way of saying that. And that. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't politically correct.

Dude, it's just a purse. It wasn't politically correct to be gay. That's wild. That is. That's a funny way to say it. It really is. Jesus Christ. The author of that book said, Anita Paddock said, he had

young men that he would get out of jail maybe for vagrancy and he would bring them to his house and they would do odd jobs for him and he was just drinking and there was lots of loud parties there. So that's what he'd do. He's just partying. He's having he'd do. He's just partying. He's having a good time.

Yeah, he's having a good time. He works so he can do this and everything like that. So May 16th, 1981. Let's catch up to here. So Rui-Anne talked to Sam Hugh on the phone and had a conversation. She apparently had gone to Cincinnati on a bus trip, and she said she was writing a new book. And she used to go on these trips and say it was for books that she was writing so she could write it off on her taxes.

Got it. So he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Okay, whatever. He's telling her. Cincinnati, Ohio? Way up there. Yeah, yeah. She went to Cincinnati on vacation, which is a really weird place to go on vacation.

Fascinating destination. I don't know what you're going for, but okay. We go for shows and it's fine, but we're not like, let's stay an extra week. This is wonderful. So, yeah, she did all of that. I guess it was about steamships on the Arkansas River. That's what her new book was about. So he's telling her she needed to take a break and relax a little bit.

She's 75 years old. She's going on bus trips and shit. She said, oh, I've been relaxing. She said, I've been watching the PTL show. Do you know what that is? No. This is so weird because i've never really heard this a lot ptl show and then i've been reading a book for like the last week and

it's all about the ptl show and then this comes up and i was like holy shit it's jim and tammy faye baker oh jesus what is ptl stand praise the lord oh my god no ptl praise the lord and that What does PTL stand for? Praise the Lord. Oh, my God. No. PTL. Praise the Lord. And that's their big show. Oh, yeah. And this is in the book. They're like right in this time, too, in like 81 when they were having all of these projects that they do.

Oh, we're going to build these towers, these hotels. And anybody who gives us $1,000 now, you get a membership or $10,000 now. Then you get a membership where you get three days and four nights once a year free of charge for the rest of your life and blah, blah, blah. And then they wouldn't build the hotel and they'd use the money to pay off their debts. And they had a Ponzi scheme. Jim and Tammy Faye were buying fucking beach houses and shit. They were ridiculous. And fucking with her face. Doing all sorts of weird shit.

Yeah, that book is wild. Anyway, so there. She said she's been watching the PTL show. She said Tammy Faye told the sweetest Memorial Day story. Yeah. She's like, it's wonderful. She said there was a wonderful gospel trio from Kentucky

on the show. It was great. She said, what did you do? What are you doing tonight? Or what'd you do tonight? You don't want to know, Ma. You don't want to know. He said, I watched a movie on HBO. I watched Holy Moses.

I laughed all the way through it. That short guy, Dudley Moore, was in it. And she said, you shouldn't watch movies that make fun of the Bible. I forbid it. Do you know what Holy movies that make fun of the bible I forbid it do you know what holy Moses is I do I've seen it yeah it's a biblical it's a biblical spoof yeah I'll read some of the cast here Lorraine Newman so that's original SNL uh Dom DeLuise yeah legend Madeline Kahn fucking legend oh little guy named Richard P pryor you may have heard of in there as well he's in there john ritter plays the devil yes there's his uh there's a lot of people in this

movie it's a dudley moore and dudley moore is the lead anything he's in is goofy it's yeah it's ridiculous so yeah she he was like all right yeah. Roll the eyes type of deal. That's what he was saying was going on. So later on that evening, Rui Park is in her house, Rui Anne, and she's got her pin curlers in, curlers with the pin thing in them. She's got those in, held in place by 30 bobby pins in her head. She's got a pink nylon robe there she's got and a nightgown she's wearing underneath it and all that sort of thing so she's um she's hanging out in her room uh she's at a guest room in a guest room in her own house which i find weird in like the den uh she sits on the she's on the bed with her arms crossed we know and

in she's sitting there and she is bashed over the head we know very hard okay she is beaten 10 at least 10 times in the head she's got so many curlers there you really gotta get you gotta get into it yeah it's like a helmet at some point yeah those old lady curlers were like a helmet yeah they really were some of them were soft there were the hard ones obviously but some yeah soft and you'd really have to yeah it's like having a nerf helmet on so she is beaten it starts out with her left temple is the first place she's hit which you know um she's trying to fend off the attacker who's beating her, grabbing at everything. There's blood all over the place. She's very, very bloody.

During the fight, two of her fingers on her left hand is broken. Her right hand is all cut up. Her right hand is all cut up. She ends up falling onto the floor, falling onto the foot of the bed, and there's tons of blood soaking the mattress with blood. She ends up being dragged off the bed onto the floor. She's face down on the floor and dragged across down a hallway out of the bedroom by her ankles. Don't like this. There's a rug that bunches up underneath her as she's being pulled.

70-year-old woman? Yeah, 75-year-old woman. Jesus Christ. Yeah, this is brutal. She raised up, apparently at some point, she knocked some books off a shelf in the den on her way out with her hand, grabbing for trying to grab. You know what I mean? Right, trying to save her own life exactly um so she is uh drug out to kind of near the living room

bleeding out completely uh a quilt is placed over her a large quilt and she's left there where she dies to bleed out and die to bleed out and die with a crushed skull. Oh, my. She's bashed to, I mean, absolute oblivion, dragged out in her living room and just kind of flopped there and left with a quilt, covered up, though, with a quilt. That's horrible. That's horrible. This is a terrible scene. This is absolutely awful, obviously.

I've told the story about my great-grandmother. It's a similar situation here. Not cool at all. So she, obviously, this is horrific. Right away, the fact that someone would cover her with a quilt, that's a specific action. Yeah, they don't want to look at that. Yeah, there's a very specific action to that of embarrassment or because obviously yeah that's not going to cover it it's not like well no one will see it now right that

certainly doesn't that's a fix it and make her okay just make something happen in your brain that makes it better for you to do that so um that's what's going on so that's how she ends up and the next morning she's still there and uh sam Sam Hugh wakes up around 11 o'clock in the morning the next morning. Almost afternoon. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, he's been drinking all night here. All night he's hungover. He's stumbling around.

He gets some vodka to take a sip to calm the dogs a little bit. Steady the hand. It's exactly what it is steady the hand that's that's an alcoholic that's not great um he is hanging out on the couch is santos the guy who came for thanksgiving dinner there his kind of uh his little buddy there so santos is on the couch and he's trying to wake him up sam hughes trying to wake up santos and he's heating up some coffee in the microwave and yeah it's a bad morning when you have some vodka and then microwave some coffee and then

sanca so god jesus choice that's what that freeze-dried shit was god damn it nasty such bad coffee some folgers so yeah he goes out onto the front porch he He slept in his clothes. He's still wearing the same clothes he had on last night. He has a jizz stain on his sweater, he notices. He's got a semen stain. He didn't realize, like, I don't even know where that came from. Like, I don't know if that's mine or somebody else's, but somebody had a good time last night. We know that much. Put it that way.

Someone's night ended triumphantly night we know that much put it that way someone's night ended triumphantly we know that much i don't know whose liquid smile this is it's somebody's god damn it it's giving me a serious frown right now though right it's not gonna come out of this sweater so he says he looks across the street and said he saw the morning paper still on his mom's porch. He's like, that's weird. She doesn't ever do that. Jesus Christ. Her paper is picked up. It's 11 o'clock in the morning.

Yeah. She'd yell at someone for leaving their paper on there that long. So he is just kind of kicking back and doing his thing. He sees Santos in the house. He's telling him, I tried to wake you up. What's going on? And Santos said, what do you want me to do today for you? Because he kind of picks up the place, so he lives rent-free type of deal.

Okay, yeah. So, yeah, and he tells him. Sam Hughes says, can you pick up the place? There's been people here in and out all night, and I don't even remember who was here, but it's a mess. And then he says, okay. And then they have some adult time, you could call it, here. They have some form of sexual relations at this moment. Some man hugs.

Then a couple hours after that, Santos leaves to go horseback riding. Really? I just picture him shirtless with jeans going horseback riding after this you know what i mean don't you and i also picture him as being a top because i don't know that i could ride a horse after that that's oh that's yeah he's definitely not fucking yeah taking it in the fucking twins and then going there that's not happening and then going horseback riding. Yeah.

Or he is to numb the whole situation. I'm not sure. I don't know how that works. Or perhaps it's already numb. Who knows? I picture him shirtless and glistening from afterglow. You know what I mean? It's just a whole bunch of sweaty chest. Coital mist covering his upper body as he horseback rides to the Arkansas morning.

That's a damn niceansas morning he's having a great day wake up at 11 have sex jump on a horse that's what i mean he's living like fucking doc holiday over here this is a crazy day it's fucking amazing doc holiday we got going on here i never wanted to be gay more in my life i know right don't you imagine that was your life jesus christ fuck man maybe we've done it we're doing it all wrong we're doing it all wrong oh man so while that's all going on sam hugh says he goes over to his mom's house he said he's just you know going over there he grabs the newspaper and uh goes around back nobody uses the front door by the way nobody at the winter palace at the winter palace yeah they say that she wouldn't open that door for

anybody you go around back that's use the kitchen door around back so that's what he does um he has a key to the house there's three keys to the house ruby ann and both kids have keys to the house that's who has them so um he unlocks the kitchen door and he said he called out for his mom hey ma where are you what's going on here you know mom mom doesn't see her he sees her house shoes on the kitchen floor i thought that was weird and he said oh no maybe she fell down the basement steps which are just off the kitchen floor and thought that was weird and he said oh no maybe she fell down the basement steps which are just off the kitchen there so fascinating uh a to b but okay you know maybe that's maybe she fell right out of her shoes she'd have to whoa you gotta really lose your balance to

fall out of your shoes down the basement steps that'd'd be wild. Stay in the kitchen. Oh, man. She just went head first, man. Shoes sitting on the ground still. Holy shit. So she thought, he goes, where the hell is she? Didn't see her. Then he walked into the den and he saw her on the floor lying there. She was partially covered with a yellow quilt and he was like she taking a nap on the floor the hell mom doesn't take naps number one and

why would she be on the floor with a quilt over then he noticed that her bare butt was exposed she's got her whole backside is out yeah her ass is hanging out here she was on her stomach next to the chair and then he noticed that there was a lot of blood pooled on the floor after that he kind of noticed okay oh there's mom why is her ass out is that blood holy shit that would be the series of events here he knelt down closer he said and he said he um you know was was like, oh, my God, she's she's dead. Holy shit. So he said he runs into the kitchen and called the cops from there. Gave the address for 11 Fayetteville Road.

And he went outside. And when the cops came, they found him sitting in the front yard sobbing. So that's how they found him. Yeah. So they the sheriff comes in. Trellin Ball is the sheriff. He's the county sheriff. sheriff comes in. Trellin Ball is the sheriff. He's the county sheriff. He comes in.

They called him away from his damn Sunday dinner. Is that right? Oh, man, I was eating. He had roast potatoes and carrots that night. Very southern night. Oh, man, that's a delicious dinner. He's got a belly full of, you don't want to go anywhere after that. No.

No, you want to sit back and do something here so he it's like shit so he's got to go over there um he he was saying how uh his daughters lived in alma which is funny because alma is where two tony and susan alamo were from remember that i was oh yeah yeah so that's interesting so the police arrive at the house and um when the sheriff arrives there was already crime scene tape around the fucking place and there was already people there um there's woods behind the house uh brick sidewalk that runs along the side of the house that goes back to the back porch that kind of goes you know to the two doors yeah there's one at the front too with the brick path and nobody goes to the front door like we said so um he's there uh there's another investigator with the arkansas state police is don taylor he's there as well by the

way the way this author describes these people is pretty funny um there's a lot there's a lot of uh well here we go wayne hicks the assistant police chief of van buren a tall fat man with several chins okay greeted the sheriff who could stand to lose some weight himself what why are they so judgmental the fact why anita paddock is really gonna pick on your physique man then she moves on moves on to don taylor though listen to this don taylor trim and muscled up was an investigator with the arkansas state police you're picturing these people though you got boss hog some other fat guy and then here comes you know this strapping i'm here to investigate a homicide he shows up you got hopper and yeah yeah some some oiled up

fucking muscular boss hog hopper and uh richard grieco in that movie from 1991 it's like what are you talking about what are you doing lady yeah she's just having a fantasy here yeah so uh she says that she uh he's an investigator with the police okay he's writing in notebooks all this kind of shit so the sheriff said you know fill me in what's going on they say okay got a call about 1 30 victim's son said he called the mother she didn't answer went across the street you know blah blah blah uh they said she was real careful about locking her doors he unlocked the door with the key the son and came in said he unlocked the kitchen door found his mother dead in the den um you know that sort of thing so as they're sitting back chief hicks i'll read the book, Chief Hicks lowered his voice and pointed toward the man wearing black-rimmed glasses,

leaning against the side of a house smoking a cigarette. Quote, you know who he is, don't you? That queer lawyer, Sam Hugh Park. Oh, boy. Which, in 1981 in Arkansas, that was considered very, very progressive. That queer lawyer is like wow i mean if sam heard that a tear would have come to his eye they're finally accepting me because that 10 years earlier it would have been i'm not saying that's good but i mean in arkansas that's not considered like uh you know hateful

behavior in 1981 for some reason you know him he's the guy that you want to drag behind your truck and you know that he's like jesus christ take it easy sir yeah by 81 they had brought that back down to queer that's uh they would just put it there um which is progress they said yeah i know him i've been on his house to some on some disturbance calls and uh the chief said i think he done it don't you him or one of his queer friends okay that's that's not very progressive there well you know the stereotype gays just go around killing old ladies all the time covering them with quilts it's just a stereotype by now they call them their makeup and shit they call them the yellow quilt mafia that's if someone thinks

you're gay they'll be like are you one of the yellow quilt boys and you're like no no you know that's no there's no stereotype obviously for gay men killing old ladies i heard they'll slit your throat for having ugly drapes that's oh that'll happen yeah they don't like that at all they don't like that um the sheriff was like okay uh they knew also that the uh the uh press argus which a new guy owns now had written some unflattering columns about the sheriff's department uh and their connection with a local religious cult oh so they were like oh maybe there's some problem there uh but the chief said nothing heard uh nobody heard anything because the guy said hey calm down someone's gonna hear you making outlandish things.

So the chief said, nothing heard me. And I should watch what I say. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, no problem. So they're not going to. Let's not call him a queer in the front yard. All right, good. Let's be a little more.

Yeah. Come to the man. He just lost his mother. Jesus. So all the investigators go into the house to look around, which, again, they all kind of go together, which is not really great crime scene behavior. Yeah, right. Let's everybody stomp up the stairs and shit. You block it off.

You got your forensic guys, your crime scene unit guys, and then you have the homicide detective who's in charge of the scene. And everybody else stays the fuck out unless they're told by the homicide detective to help them with something. That's the way it's by the book supposed to go instead like an eight-year-old when it's raining and start splashing in the blood puddles and here's seven people march in to take a tour through this bad boy um they enter through the kitchen door they see the fridge there's blood smeared on the fridge door um across from the fridge is the stove and on the floor there is the pair of the house shoes that they see there's a hallway that leads to the rest of the house and they find obviously mrs park here on her stomach in the den like we said her left arm is above her head her body is

covered in blood and under her is a big circle of it's all the blood it looks like red paint by now because it's congealed. It's blood. And the sheriff said it looks like somebody beat the hell out of her, especially on top of the head. Don't you think? You think? Gee, her head's all bashed in and there's a lot of blood. That's a... Nice work, sheriff. Wow, you are a regular

Sherlock Holmes over here. Holy shit, wow. This isn't your first day, huh? So glad we got you here now i see why you're the sheriff they said is that a persian rug under her with a quilt over her and they're you know kind of doing that um you know looking around and uh they say it looks like a pillow case and a napkin by her feet how come they're trying to you know he's asking all these questions what about the scene here um and so they find a blood trail pointing basically that's a on the

wall that's a long smear of blood so they said let's see where this goes so they follow it past a chair um they see five or six encyclopedias strewn on the floor. They go into the hallway, down the hallway a little bit. They look like they find a guest room, and they think it's a guest room because it's very neat and doesn't have perfumes and knickknacks and shit like that. Personal effects, basically. So at the foot of the bed, no sheet or no covers on this bed, just a mattress. There's a big circle of blood there. And at the north side of the bed, there's a bunch of other blood spots. So they're like, okay, this is where it started, and it ended up there.

So they said, obviously, this is whoever killed her, drug her into the den. They're like, why not leave her here? Why drag her into the next room? What's the point of that? So, yeah, they were looking around. drag her into the next room what point what's the point of that so yeah they were looking around it's it's very uh you know they're finding she has a lot of things in there a lot of antiques a lot of shit like that well you know they have money they notice that she has expensive things in there yeah type of deal uh the master bedroom's in the back of the house and um on a bookshelf

built into the wall is an unopened black purse, and next to it there's some family photos or anything. So they say the purse wasn't taken, and the bed doesn't look like it's been slept in. So it looks like the covers have been turned down, so she's probably getting ready to go to bed. She's in a nightgown. This probably happened pre- know middle of the night so um they look they look uh everything else the the phone has a dial tone all that kind of shit they're looking at her books and they're like you know okay she's got books the one guy goes man she's sure sure did read a lot huh well yeah she owned a fucking newspaper and has started a historical society for shit's sake

shit so uh they walked back in and they they had removed the bedspread the mattress pad a pillow case and a pillow from the body so all that was on the edge of the bed like the bed that guest bed was like had the stuff there where it was going to be you could make it but she was sitting on the edge and when she got dragged that stuff kind of came underneath with her yeah came with her or she might have been holding on to it um so yeah the sheriff is looking through this and they said you think a man did it and they said well it looks like her left hand is broken there's some dark hairs clutched between her thumb and forefinger so they said that's something they said it's 81 though all you can tell is similar no dna but it'll narrow it down whether it was a blonde guy or not it's not so she's they said she tried to defend herself against a man i'm pretty sure a woman couldn't

have done the force that that takes here with the skull so um well i mean no that's that's what they look at they go who is it unless it's it's a fucking Sally McNeil came over. Yeah. You know, it's just they look at physicality of a scene. The general gal cannot do this. Yeah, but I mean, there's strong women that can do it. Absolutely. So they said, well, she tried to defend herself, and she fought pretty good for an old lady,

but it doesn't look like it worked here. So the police a couple days later, very similar. But when they talk to the kids, by the way, they'll say, like, you know, we don't know when the autopsy is going to get done because this happened on a Sunday. So the labs closed, obviously. Yeah. All the well, it is all the bodies in Arkansas go to Little Rock for autopsy. By the way, they have no local autopsy facilities. So he said, you know, if it was a busy weekend, a lot of car crashes and things like that,

they could be all piled up back there waiting. So I'm like, piled up? It's Sunday. We can't even ship it down to Little Rock. I mean, Jesus, there's nobody working. The post office is closed. I mean, you know, the medical examiner makes mac and cheese on sunday so he ain't gonna do it so they um say that um they're trying to pinpoint the time of death they say she's been struck at

least 10 times with a blunt instrument like we said two fingers broken they fix the time of death at about 6 30 sunday which they have no idea of to the hour. That's just a silly thing. But they issue a verbal report, but they say they're holding back on information from the autopsy while continuing to try to talk to suspects and things like that. Things like that. They said, we don't want any suspect to be able to develop an alibi from any

of the information we release. I think that's why they released the wrong time of death on purpose. I think they did that on purpose. Yeah, because they'll do that shit. So Linda here that night, she's at home when all this is going on. And she's not having a tough time. She's having a tough time with her husband, basically.

Howard is a little overbearing and uh also he's cheating on her is the other thing yeah she uh she found a letter in his jacket pocket of a suit of his and it was from a client's wife he's getting it in writing the letter said missing you on monday uh longing for you on tuesday happy on wednesday so he he fucks her on wednesday why would you write that here you go why would you keep that too he keeps it in his pocket in his suit pocket for later right around noon on wednesday i'm happy you know what i mean yeah it's fucking silly he hated she knew who it was

it's a lady named judy and she's like that fucking bitch judy she hates her she said she's a blonde woman that all the guys like she said she giggles at all their jokes quote this is from the book wore tight jeans and teased her hair like dolly parton and she's been divorced oh oh boy she's out there she is out there her husband oh she is a man eater boy so jeans showing off that divorced ass tight jeans and big hair tight jeans and baggy hair that's how it works i like it that's how it goes so uh she said she suspected something when he started taking her calls at home when normally if a client called the house howard would tell them like please call the office tomorrow and her he'd be like oh i gotta take this let me i gotta go in the other room sorry why are you taking your pants off to go in that room? What are you doing? What is that noise in there? Stop that.

So the phone rings, and it is her brother. And he says, mother's dead. She's dead. And he says, what happened? Jesus Christ. And Sam Hughes says, somebody killed her, Linda. I found her in the den with blood everywhere, all over her head. Horrible to see, Linda.

Horrible, horrible, horrible. I can't imagine. Linda says, who killed her? And he says, where are you? She says, where are you? Who killed her? He says, I'm home now, but the police are still at Mother's. They think I did it.

I can tell by the way they look at me. I'm across the street from the house. They're all looking at me. They're all. I can literally look out the blinds while they look at me and point. I see one making like an O with his finger and taking his pointer and pushing through it, poking back and forth and pointing at me and then laughing. It's really messed up. Another has his handcuffs out.

He keeps walking over here, and the other guys are dragging him back saying, not yet. Not yet, not yet. I think they believe it's me. I think it's possible. They said, when did it did it happen and he said last night or early this morning and she said oh my god blah blah blah they said even the tv cameras are here now this is crazy so linda obviously her husband comes in hears her crying and she said sam hugh just called mother's dead he found her somebody killed her they're like holy, holy shit. What the fuck? Your old lady mother?

Yeah, she's kind of a pain in the ass, but who cares enough to kill her? She's just an old lady that runs off at the mouth. Who cares? Who got second place on daffodils last spring? Yeah, that's what I mean. Well, who got first place? Who knocked her off her? Yeah, that too.

That too. She's never going to come back again now they said um you know she said my mother's been killed um i can't believe it she said all these years i've hated her but now she's dead i don't know what to think now yeah it's gotta be tough so husband gets her a soda and a wet washcloth and she's trying to get her breath and all that sort of thing. And she didn't know what to do here. She said, just, you know, stop trying to comfort me. It's fine. That's it.

You know, fuck it. She said, this is unbelievable. I don't know what to do. I used to wish she would die. But then when daddy died, I thought God was punishing me for those thoughts. She said, she said, who could have done it and he said let's not think about that right now let's fucking do whatever and uh he said i've got to go check on something at the office yeah your mom's dead let me run to the office quick which is a

very strange i gotta go see judy about her pussy this is gotta go see a lady about her pussy you're going to see a man about a horse nope lady about her pussy have a coke and a smile i'll be back that's right well either i don't really care if you have a smile or not i'll be having a smile with judy i'll have the smile i'll have the smile so um he said i'll take take the little red car, which is a Chevette. Another Chevette. What is up with all the Chevettes? I didn't realize it was such a great selling car. Fuck, they were everywhere.

She said, take the station wagon. And he says, what does it matter? You didn't drive the Chevette when I was gone, did you? The night before when all this happened, he had been on a Boy Scout camping trip with the older boys. Okay. So he said, did you drive my fucking Chevette while I was gone? Prized possession. She is, well, it's leased to his law office.

So for tax purposes, she's not allowed to drive it. Only he can drive it. Like there's an IRS agent fucking monitoring his Chevette all the time. Don't you write that off. I saw her go get milked. With a notebook. A man bought an 81 Chevette. Let's keep an eye on that extravagant bullshit.

How dare he? The extravagance of an 81 Chevette. Can't write that off anymore. Oh, my God. So she said, leave me alone, basically. My mother just died. You're breaking my balls about driving your stupid car. No, I didn't drive your dumb shit car.

It's barely allowed to be called a car. No shit. So then they're arguing about Samhue because she he's like well what's up with your brother is he drunk i'm sure he's drunk through this whole thing and she's saying don't you talk bad about him our mother's dead and blah blah blah so they're arguing back and forth they have a family friend come to watch the kids so they can go deal with all this they have a lady come in like uncle buck in the middle of the night like yeah fucking sure yeah so she does that linda wants to hurry out of the house um you know

she says come on we gotta hurry i don't want sam you to have to face all these people by himself and um howard says to her well i'm sure he's i'm sure he's pretty well anesthetized by now so don't worry about it he's numb to it um howard hates him absolutely hates him then he says and i'm gonna have to lose three days of work and now there's gas Howard hates him. Howard hates him. Absolutely hates him. Jesus Christ, Howard. Then he says, and I'm going to have to lose three days of work, and now there's gas being close to this much a gallon, and now we got to pay her to sit here with the kids. This is going to cost us a lot of money. How dare she get murdered? I'm sorry, man.

How dare she be murdered? Fucking inconvenient bitch. Why is he doing this? Yeah, and she says, i'm sorry someone murdered my mother yeah which is the most passive-aggressive awesome thing i've ever heard she's great it's hilarious so now back at the house a couple of uh of uh sam hughes friends come over their names are rusty and linda myers rusty myers sounds like a porn star from the 70s, by the way. Linda Myers isn't much better.

Linda and Rusty sound like, yeah, they do shit together. I feel like I could search Linda Myers on Pornhub. There's going to be a few. Rusty and Linda Myers host a party and it was a big orgy. Rusty and Linda Myers amateur. You're going to get some shows. I'm sure they're on there. rusty and linda meyer's amateur you're gonna get some shows i'm sure they're on there so they were coming home from church and they saw all this commotion with the cops and all this type of shit

so they stop and they they notice you know they say what's going on and they say there's a murder the cops say ruey ann park is inside with her head all bashed in they're like holy shit jesus christ that's fucking crazy so um rusty said he'd known her all her life uh he was fraternity brothers with sam hugh sam hugh was the best man at his wedding to linda wow linda meyer's not linda the sister right so you know he asked rusty s where's sam hugh and he said he's over there he found the body so you know whatever and uh go get it fast to you yeah the the one car or the the new editor of the uh argus press there said he's over there he's in bad shape he found the body poor guy i can't imagine what that was like for him she was on

her stomach with her bare butt showing and so rusty Rusty said, had she been raped? And they said they... Russ, take it easy. Well, I mean, it's part of it. Did they rape and kill, or is it just... But Rusty's not an investigator. He's just a friend. Russ, we'll tell you about it later, man. Wiser ass out is what he's saying.

I mean... Take it easy, Rusty. I mean, fuck. I don't know. Rusty gets a little up. You know what, Rusty? Was there some rape involved? Rusty, what are you doing? Rusty's got a thing for older women. He put immediately put his hand in his pocket, started rubbing around.

Was was she raped? They said, no, she was in her gown and robe and had pin curls in her hair and all that. So they're, you know, talking and going on so rusty goes over and goes to sam hugh's house and says you know jesus christ what happened uh fuck and and rusty or sam hugh said i found her she looked all she looked so old and bloody her arms were all askew and she wasn't wearing panties she'd be humiliated to know how she ended up, is what he said. So they said, who could have done this? And he said, no idea. He said, I don't know, man, but I'll tell you what, Sam.

He said, I'm scared shitless. This means, that means, that's a mean son of a bitch who would kill an old lady like my mom. Directly across the street from where I was sleeping. Where I was sleeping. So now I'm scared too. So Rusty and Linda end up, you know, they go, okay, well, if you need anything, let us know. We have to go.

The kids are in the car. We're home from church. You know, we've got to drop them off. They take off. And Santos comes back from his horseback ride. Having the greatest day ever. He comes back smoking a joint as well. Like he couldn't get any better than this for this guy.

You have to be kidding me. Smoking a joint. If he had like a turkey leg in his hand is the only other way he's living more of a gluttonous fucking life today. The man already came, woke up at 11, went horseback riding. He came, rode a horse and got stoned. He came, dominated an 800 pound animal and then smoked a joint that's a day after waking up at almost noon yeah that's a good day it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show

is part true crime part spooky and part comedy The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts so he's telling him put that weed out the cops are

coming what the fuck is wrong with you and so um yeah they cops are are uh you know coming over um to talk to him and they're like jesus christ he's saying turn the ceiling fan on what the fuck um so friends of his mom are calling you know offering food and what can i do Jesus Christ, he's saying turn the ceiling fan on. What the fuck? So friends of his mom are calling, offering food and what can I do for you? And he's trying to talk to them and tell this guy to put the joint out, maybe put a shirt on. Stop smiling so much, man. Can you wear pants that don't have the ass cut out of them, please? Put some normal jeans on. You're wearing chaps with nothing under them.

For fuck's sake. So police come to talk to Sam Hugh. They say, when did you last see your mother alive? And he said, I don't know, 4.30 Saturday afternoon. She stopped by after her walk with Marie Thompson. And so that's a lady who lives in the neighborhood. They said, okay, we'll talk to her. He said, I told my mother I saw Rusty Myers.

That's definitely a porn star. Rusty and Lusty, Lusty Myers. That's definitely a porn star. Rusty and Linda Myers. Lusty and Linda Myers at the grocery store. And they had invited me for supper and I was getting ready to leave when she came by. He said I got home from supper around 7 o'clock early because I wanted to watch Holy Moses on cable. Right. Yeah. I called my mother and she said she was going to watch PTL.

They said that religious station. And he says, yeah, she watches it all the time. Well, watched it all the time, I guess I should say. So he said, I called her right after the movie. She told me she was getting ready for bed. We said goodnight. It was about 10 or 1030. They said, were you alone when you watched the movie?

He said, some friends dropped by, but they didn't like the movie, so they left. And so they said, okay, we'll get the names. Did you see anything suspicious? Did you see a strange car? And he said, no, just like I told the sheriff, I saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Mother keeps the house locked at all times. Who has keys? Me, her, and my sister,inda where does linda live by little rock couple hours away her and her husband are up here now um so then they talk to santos right and they say you live here he says off and on i do i do landscaping for sam hugh and any and quote anything else he needs done yeah you know i do landscaping and like you know i like dishes and

rim jobs and things like that just around the house you know just things i do a lot of ball draining you know things like that you know i tend to the i tend to the ball crop that comes in uh so um he said uh where were you or were you here last night? And Santos says for a little while around five 30 or so, but I left to pick up Jackie. I brought her back here. We watched a movie with Sam Hugh, but we didn't like it. So we left, but we came back because I realized I didn't have any money. So I asked Sam Hugh for $5, but he gave me 10.

Then me and Jackie left and I went to her house. I came home about five Sunday morning and crashed on the couch there. I got up around noon, I guess. So they said, uh, anything else, you know,

at Sam Hughes that you'd want to talk about things, you know, anything, anything that stand out to you. And they said, Gary was here. He was in and out on Saturday. Um,

and so they said, no, Gary, you know, they're talking about Gary, some guy, girl, Jackie he was in and out on saturday um and so they said no gary you know they're talking about gary some guy girl jackie that came in and out and they're just kind of talking out and uh they said well is jackie a guy or a girl and they said a girl there's gary is a guy and jackie's a girl and the cop says why is she hanging around with a bunch of queers what the fuck why is she hanging around with a bunch of que, which is a very weird way to put that. And women like to hang out with gay guys. You ever been around a gay?

These people have no experience with gay guys, I don't think, here at all. They're not going to touch her or nothing, so why'd she want to be here? I mean, if they don't want a finger, what's the point? What, are they they gonna talk to her not like she's got any ideas or nothing coming out her vagina so he said well we're all just friends man and uh the cop just said sure you are sure you are and then he says and mr sam hugh park doles out the money for sexual favors am Am I correct? And then says, no need to answer that and walks away. I already know the answer.

So this is just, wow, this is a lot. Then he says, don't go anywhere. We'll want to talk some more with you and your friends as well. But next time we talk, it'll be at the sheriff's office. So it's real, real threatening. Sam Hughes inside sobbing, thinking, oh, shit, I'm fucked here. So Linda arrives and says and says oh this is unbelievable he says i know i keep going home and coming back here it doesn't seem true um you know they're

going you know they're just fucking siblings going holy shit our mom's dead so um they he also shakes hands with very quickly with howard they're very cold to each other there the cops notice that also. They go, they don't seem to be getting along very well. And the sheriff ball takes a note of it in his notebook. Those two don't get along. He does. So Sam Hughes said, if it's okay with you, Sheriff,

I'm going to take Linda and Howard up to my house. I know you want to talk to her, but they just got here. Calm the fuck down. So they head inside. They end up coming over, talk to Linda. They said, did you hear anything last night? Linda, well, this is Linda talking to Sam Hugh. Did you hear anything?

He said, no, I had some friends drop by, but, you know, nobody saw it. They all left. And Howard said, you'll need witnesses. And he says, yeah, I know that, Sam Hugh says. Probably, yeah. And then he gets mad. I also prosecute, sir, and I also defend. I did that, yeah. I know how this goes. And then he gets mad. I also prosecute, sir, and I also defend. I did that, yeah.

I know how this goes. And he said, you think I'm a suspect, don't you? Like, he's like, fuck. And he says, Howard says, of course I do, and you know it too. The whole town knows about your arguments with her. They were plenty loud. Hell, the neighbors called the cops twice on you. And so they said, your mother told, sam hugh said who told you that and

howard said your mother called us and told us about you and your queer friends she told us about the drinking in the pot too okay and so then they're arguing so then the cops come back in the middle of this and um so they said now let me before I leave, he says, where were each of you last night from dark until morning? Sam Hugh, you're up first. He says, I was here all night, had some friends over, didn't hear any screams or loud noises. I have no idea who might want her dead. I don't know if she had any enemies. And that sheriff ball is all I intend to say on that subject.

Okay. So Howard's, yeah, but he's also a lawyer who knows you don't talk to cops without a lawyer that's also the other thing and especially if they consider you a suspect so um howard cleared his throat and said sheriff i apologize you know i assure you me and my wife will be cooperative and uh you know there you go so linda asked you don't think sam hugh killed our mother he wouldn't do that. He was her flesh and blood. They had a very special relationship, one that went way beyond a normal mother and son.

So the cop said, well, what does that mean? And Linda said he was very special in her eyes. She thought he was perfect in every way. She never stayed mad at him for more than an hour, no matter what he did or said. So they said, well, where were you last night, Linda? And she said, I was at last night linda and she said i was at home my husband and our oldest kid were out camping and so they got you know camping near a lake blah blah blah they said linda do you have any witnesses to verify your alibi and howard says

jesus christ our neighbors will tell you she had the lights on you know when i'm gone she keeps all the lights on she had two little kids she's watching at home, so that's where she was. And Linda said, yeah, I had the lights on. The baby and I sat outside before it got dark, took our baths, went to bed. And they said, when's the last time you saw your mother? And she said, Thanksgiving. We were here. It's the last time I saw her.

Yeah, talking on the phone. So they said, your mother and father were divorced and before that they owned the press argus and she said yes sir um my father died then he remarried his wife still lives here i believe divorced and got remarried yeah yeah yeah he didn't die and then get remarried that would be that would be a totally different thing that's a that's one way to get out of a marriage. I'll tell you that. That's a very specific way. Maybe we look for who she is because she sounds crazy. Yeah, let's look at here.

And then they even asked, and you were adopted, right? And she said, yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. So Howard, the husband, says, my wife was probably closer to her father. The divorce was very traumatic for everybody, but Linda was very devoted to her father and her mother insisted on Linda's loyalty. So that was a source of friction. Sam Hughes also had friction in there too. And so she said, they go on and they say, does your mother have any men friends? And Linda says, no, never. At least none that I ever knew about. I really believe she liked living alone and having things her own way. She would have your mother have any men friends and linda says no never at least none that i ever knew about i really believe she liked living alone and having things her own way she would have liked for sam hugh to live with her but he wanted to have his own place yeah because he's you know in his 30s so

he wants his own place yeah so they said okay she frowns upon his lifestyle and yeah exactly that santo sleeping on the couch smoking joints i don't know how that's going to go over with old fucking, old historical society over here. Really? I was going to say history society. She doesn't seem too hip. No, I don't think she's too into it. So the sheriff, they tell names of the mother's friends, they tell them, and do all that sort of thing. They said to Samhue, if you're ready to be helpful, I'd like to know the name of your mother's friends.

Samhue says, my mother was active in the local historical societies. Those ladies would be considered casual acquaintances, but not good friends. And they said, I don't think my mother had any good friends. She just didn't. She knew all these people, but she didn't hang out with anybody. so nobody want to hang out with her said she was in a book club they said that she was she careful about locking doors they said absolutely she wouldn't open it for a stranger you know none of that shit um so they said um will you come over and look around and see if anything's missing from the house so So they head over there. They go in, and they go around back to go in the kitchen there.

As they said, she wouldn't have opened the front door. So we'll start with the kitchen. So they go in there. They hesitate. They go into the front bedroom, and the bed was rumpled. Green corduroy backrest was against the headboard. They had a lamp beside there had some light everything a pair of reading glasses were on top of magazines and they said well when did

your mother usually go to bed they said she went to bed late and got up late they said did she usually make her bed when she got up they said absolutely before she made her coffee even she was at her made her bed um they said could she have been reading in bed when she was disturbed? They said, sure. Why not? Seems like it. That seems like something she would do. So Sam Hughes said he knew the sheriff was watching him the whole time and really, really on him.

And they said they asked him, were you always required to keep your room straight, Sam Hugh? And he said, our maid did that. Mother didn't think a man should do woman's work. That was the answer. So they look around. They see other things. They go through the rest of the house. She said, this was my room. And Linda said, pointing at the door. And she looked at the mattress and she said, I guess it was a mattress that was old and crusty. And said mother should have thrown that away a long time ago she was whatever she it was her room and she didn't like that there was her stuff still in there so they told him you know don't touch anything so they said this is what we think your mother

was killed here and dragged to the den so sam hughes says it's extremely cruel of you to subject subject us to this this is our mother's blood all over the place yeah they're wandering through the crime scene and he's touring them they said i'm sorry believe me let's walk on through the den into the kitchen uh he said just don't look at the floor not right now anyway don't look down great no problem that's not where your eyes go immediately when people tell you that yeah don't look down oh pools of blood great stepping through the blood this is crazy let's walk through this crime scene to see if you guys can figure out because we don't know what we're doing so your reaction to all this shit they said the books on the floor that's not normal that chair

has been moved they said yeah mother was very particular with her books and all that sort of shit the sheriff writes in the notebook sam hugh looks at the blood on the floor but linda doesn't so he notes that um he also sam hugh sat down at the round kitchen table and he said well there are four chairs around this table and there should only be three the fourth one belongs under there over there under the phone. So the sheriff opens the refrigerator door. Not much shit to eat there. And Sam Hughes says mother didn't like to cook.

She brought home chicken, hamburgers, pizza, TV, dinner, things like that. Does she have a cleaning lady? Yes. Josie Walker, she's in the phone book. She said that she wouldn't hurt our mother. She probably didn't like her. Mother wasn't very friendly with the help. She probably thinks she's a bitch, but she didn't kill her.

So they keep saying, are we done? Can we leave? Yeah, I want out of here. How long do we have to do this? And the sheriff said, the murderer beat your mother with something heavy and hard. Thanks. Can we leave now? I just said, this is traumatic.

They said, We've looked through the whole house and out in the yard, but we haven't found the murder weapon yet. That part has me puzzled. Also puzzled by the smeared blood on the refrigerator. Why is there blood there? So finally, they says, Sam Hughes says, And Sam Hughes says, Sheriff Ball, I don't have any idea who killed my mother. Linda doesn't either.

I know my mother heard a prowler earlier in the summer. She notified the police, or at least she told me she did. I'm sure you could easily check. Perhaps the prowler returned. I don't know. They said she has some jewelry, but she kept it down at the bank in the safe deposit box. She wore lots of costume jewelry, but I can't imagine anyone thinking it was valuable. They did you check the silver in the buffet they're like it doesn't look like a robbery her purse is here jesus christ so then linda starts freaking out saying i can smell her blood i can

smell our mother's blood and they they leave next day may 18th sam hugh is shit-faced uh-huh been drinking all night long. Rusty and Linda come over. Not Linda's sister. Linda Rusty's wife. Linda Myers. The Myers, yeah. The Myers, the porn family.

They come over. And Sam Hugh is a mess. They're trying to get him into the shower. He's just sitting there. They said he's pissed himself in the chair in the night and things like that. He's just drunk as there they said like he's you know pissed himself in the chair in the night and things like that he's just drunk as fuck that drunk that drunk and he's telling the mother's dead dead dead i keep seeing her on the floor oh my god and they're like you have got to fucking calm down the sheriff's gonna come talk to you this is not good dude like chill the fuck out so they're investigating they're looking into it um trying to figure out who could

it be uh essentially so they talked to sam hughes secretary and bookkeeper uh mccracken is his name he's a guy and he says that uh the friday before that weekend he had gone to lunch in fort smith with sam and ralph ballantyne who's a banker they then looked at a business in ballantyne a business that the ballantyne guy was remodeling and then they went to after that they were going to the greyhound station to pick up ruyanne park who was coming back from cincinnati her bus was late so they met rusty myers and visited with him after that they went to the bus station, brought her home. They said, were Sam Hugh and his mother happy to see each other? And he says,

of course they were happy to see each other for about a minute, and then she started on him, but that was normal. They said, um, he said that Rui Anne told him about three weeks ago she was going to renew a CD that had matured, and it was going to Linda, and she told me she changed her will six months earlier.

So, um, they said, you must've been really good friends with Mrs. Park for her to tell you about her financial business. And he said, Oh yes, we had a remarkable friendship.

They said, and when did you see Sam Hugh again? And she, he said, I went to rusty and Linda's house for dinner and Sam Hugh was there the night of the murder. So they're talking about that. Okay. Sam, he was there. They said, do you to Rusty and Linda's house for dinner and Sam Hugh was there the night of the murder. So they're talking about that. Okay.

Sam Hugh was there. They said, do you remember what he was wearing? Slacks, loafers, yellow sweater without jizz stains on it. So the jizz stains happened sometime in the night, as we would expect. So they said, and how did you find out about the murder? And he said, oh, people told me it's all around town, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So they said, do you think he did it? They said, Sam, you said his mom was murdered, and he said the police thought he did it.

And they said, do you think he did it? And the secretary said, I don't know. All I know is that I'm scared to death. I could be next. And they said, why are you in danger? And who'd want to kill you? And he said, I know a lot about a lot of things, Detective Taylor. I know Sam Hugh owes a lot of money to a lot of people.

He probably wouldn't want me to tell you everything I know. And they said, do you think Sam Hugh is capable of killing his mother? And he said, I don't know. I have to go. I'm supposed to help Sam pick out a casket down at the funeral home. Wow. So they said, do you think he's capable of murdering his mother? And he said, I don't know.

I honestly don't know. I may go pick out a casket with a man that may or may not be a murderer. May or may not. And they made him fill out a list of names of men that he knows that have been to Sam Hughes' house recently. And there is Santos and Gary Shoup who's hanging out with that one and then a bunch of people we haven't really heard of that were over in and out partying.

So they find what they believe is a possible murder weapon. What is it? Which is a large iron poker. Oh. A big iron poker they think might be the murder weapon is what they release in the newspaper they say that so they say they're taking the poker to the crime laboratory in little rock and they're going to find out blah blah blah so um then the police right after the murder that week

they have a man in jail who says that sam told him that he killed his mother oh shit he says and then another person comes forward totally separate of this guy and says sam told me he was planning to do it so i figure he went through with it now because this was in the past so they have all of this going on but they have no real evidence So they're trying to figure that out. June 5th, 81, they try to pop in on Sam Hugh in his office, try to surprise him, but he's on vacation in Salt Lake city. Okay. Going to see a friend in the hospital. So they talked to the secretary again and they ask him about the finances of the office and they they say Sam Hughes, you know, he wasn't making a lot of money. They say he owes between $45,000 and $65,000

at two different banks. And the secretary says he also has a few hot checks out as well. So a few bad checks he's floating around. So they said, that's interesting. Interesting. And the guy then says, Sam Hughes told me before his mother went on her trip he was going

to ask her for help financial help I don't know if he did or not maybe he decided to wait till she got back and the cop said maybe he did ask her and she said no and the secretary said I have no idea and that's the truth so they said I understand Sam Hugh has now moved into his mother's home. Did he take all his boys with him? He's moved into her house now? Yeah, it's nicer. So he just moved into there. So, yeah, he moves into there. And he said, I'm not sure.

This has me so upset. I don't know if my life is in danger or not. I do not feel safe knowing that Sam is gone. Oh, I do feel safer knowing that Sam is gone for now. So he's, like, scared he's like scared of sam yeah and he says does sam know how you feel and the guy said of course he doesn't and please i beg of you don't tell him i need this job i have bills to pay he's got just enough in his office account to keep me on for two months do you know how hard it is to get a job these days so they said well

we want you to take a polygraph test. And the guy said, do you think I killed her? I didn't, I swear to God, I was home asleep when they were killed. So, um, whatever they say, you're going to have to take a polygraph test and all that sort of thing. So, um, he does take a polygraph test and that's fine. So they, um, uh, they, uh, before he goes to sleep, he calls Rusty Myers and says, you know, what's going on? He says the Taylor guy wants me to come in for a lie detector test. Holy shit. I'm feeling scared.

And they told him, hey, just go in and talk to him. He thinks Sam and I were because McCracken, the secretary, is like the cops think Sam and I were involved in some financial scheme. And the secretary is like, the cops think Sam and I were involved in some financial scheme. And Sam killed her for money and that I'm involved and I know things because I'm going to pay the shit off and all that. So there is some evidence that they've kind of ignored here, though. Rui Anne had a long black hair clutched in her hand that we told you about earlier. OK, Sam doesn't have long black hair. This is the problem.

Not at all. He has really short brown hair okay so um you would imagine a hair being clutched in a murder victim's hand is probably the murderers especially if there was a fight which there was she has broken fingers and a cut on her hand so they said there was a fingerprint, a handprint, and a bloody handprint on the refrigerator door. And they didn't know if any – they never took the prints, though. Why? I don't know. They didn't take the – because they're an incompetent police force, apparently. But they didn't –

Because they gave the children a tour. Yeah. They didn't take the – they didn't have the fingerprints on record. Wow. So over that summer, as it goes by, Sam says he thinks everyone in town thinks he's a murderer. He says he tells his friends he's being harassed by the police. All of his friends are being called in for interviews all the time. A few of them actually had told the police that Sam had admitted to killing his mom when he was drunk.

He said when he got drunk and told them that he killed his mom. There's a bunch of people saying that lie detector, several lie detector tests were given to Sam Hugh. Okay. Yeah. On one finding in Arkansas state police polygraph examiner concluded that Sam Hugh quote intentionally tried to defeat the administration of an effective polygraph examination in his trade as a lawyer and his continuing movement after instructions,

which makes it impossible for this examiner to render anything but inconclusive. So he's scooting around in the chair? He's saying he knows how to move around and make his heartbeat different and get his whole thing different going on. So they said he's a lawyer, so obviously he could outsmart the machine is what they said maybe or he's very uncomfortable talking about the death of his fucking mother that's or he's doing this you can make me take the test but you don't have to make me take it seriously he also that's the other thing i'll fuck your test up if you're gonna to force me to do it. That might be it also. Who knows? I did see he's still working, though, like doing cases.

October 14th, 81, a client of his named Richard Phillip Anderson, old Dickie Phil. Dickie Phil is convicted of first-degree murder for slaying two people. The jury found him guilty but spares him of the death penalty. So Sam Hugh is quoted in the newspaper here at the Northwest Arkansas times as saying, Mr. Anderson is obviously gratified that the jury decided he will not die. So, um, this was a liquor store, a liquor store or a dry, a jewelry store where this guy shot a man and his daughter who worked there.

Yeah, shot him to death. It was pretty brutal. So, Sam Hugh is just trying to stay above water. He's hanging out with Rusty and Linda a lot. And Sam, one night, about almost a year has gone by. And Sam says,

what if I did kill her? He says to Rust. And Sam says, what if I did kill her? He says to rusty, he says, what if I had a blackout and killed her? And I just don't remember. I don't remember how semen got on my sweater. So if you don't remember how semen got on your sweater, you don't remember much.

But the thing is he had the same clothes on from dinner the night before, still in the morning without fucking blood on them. If you bash someone's head in with a blunt object to the point where their skull cracks and there's blood everywhere, you're probably going to have some blood on you. It got on the refrigerator. Yeah. And if you're that hammered, you definitely wouldn't have the wherewithal to clean yourself properly or any of that shit. So his friend says, don't be ridiculous, Sam. You loved your mom you did a good job of

patronizing her and you know saying now mother you're absolutely right mother and all that shit you know you were nice to her so the district attorney the police have multiple requests in to district attorney ron fields ron field says the police requested warrants from our office they want to arrest they wanted arrest warrants and search warrants and shit he said at that point i refused to give them the warrants and uh the proof in my opinion it was just not conclusive look at this so yeah the district attorney is uh you know doing his job here they were looking for they need something they need the smoking gun you know they said everyone in town thinks that it happened but that doesn't mean it happened just because everyone thinks that.

While this is going on, they said that Sam just let himself go. Everything's falling apart. His drinking became completely out of control. He started ordering gallons of whiskey at a time rather than bottles. Gallons. Rusty and a couple other friends tried to have an intervention but the last thing sam said to them before leaving presumably to drink more whiskey out of a gallon was quote i haven't the least desire to stop drinking and i intend to die like this well uh new year's eve 1983 sam

starts coughing up blood he's getting his wish he is taken to the hospital where on january 17th 1983 he dies of liver failure is that right at 40 oh man 40 he was hammering booze fucked up that yeah he just destroyed himself oh destroyed himself so that's crazy so the sheriff attended his funeral and um everybody thought he was guilty and they were burying a murderer but the sheriff said he didn't know he said he just doesn't know he didn't know about sam he said he overall he just found him to be too gentle of a guy he just couldn't see him doing it so just i don't see him doing it just one of those things so he's a dainty one he's yeah that's what they're saying yeah he's too soft he's they're saying he's too yeah he's too nice they just don't see it which also might be that might be a prejudice working in sam hugh's

favor sure of oh yeah you know he ain't a real man or nothing not like he's a rough and tumble he's not riding horses he's not doing something like shirtlessly riding horses while smoking joints or nothing manly like that. That's what men do. Yeah. So now Linda, at the same time Melissa's going on, she gets pregnant with a fourth child. She ends up, Howard ends up leaving her for Judy for judy oh folly parton hair so yeah tight pants hot ass tight pants big hair hot ass that'll get howard out of the house so boy oh boy they get a divorce she they have four boys two older younger. She gets the younger one. Howard gets the older ones.

That's how they split them up. Howard also gets the house and most of their assets somehow. So Linda agreed to the arrangement, but then she found out that Howard is engaged to another woman now. He's already moved on. So she's pissed. um real pissed and uh she wanted to really fight for his shit now she wanted to take him to court she wanted to fight now where i'm gonna get all the kids and fuck you and you're gonna pay me extra now it turns into a real fight so june of 84 howard is fucking mad really Really? He's very mad.

And District Attorney Ron Fields says, quote, We got a phone call one night from an attorney, and he said, I have her on tape admitting killing this woman. The attorney was Linda's husband, Howard. Oh, what? And before he, Linda said, I want to meet with you and go over all this shit and we're going to have it out and he said sure come to my office

before that he had the police rig it up and wire his office for sound so this is how it went they fucking they go over to her house and they say hey

how you doing we got a warrant for your arrest and they say, hey, how you doing? We got a warrant for your arrest. And Linda goes, what the fuck are you talking about? And they said, well, here you go. And they play the tape for her. The tape, wow, it's bad, man. So first they talk about small talk. They talk about insurance.

They're talking about bullshit. They're talking about small talk. They talk about insurance. They're talking about bullshit. They're talking about the kid. Yeah. He's it's like four pages of him just kind of a needle in her. Yeah. Getting her getting her in with small talk. Make not may like sit down, go, let's talk about crimes you've committed. You know, all the kids you want to charge me so much child support.

What about when you killed your mother? Do you have cocaine on you right now that i could purchase from you like a bad fucking drug guy so he um they're they're going over all this shit and linda says well the children the bargaining will be done by the courts on the children it's come to my attention that they are abused and neglected mentally cruelly i will not make the decision on the children. They're going to be tested psychologically. I think that should be up to a counselor who works with them and the judge, the lawyers, or whoever it is. Those children are

in a bad way, Howard, not just me. And I've got plenty of evidence that I would rather them go to a foster home and be cared for. You just don't realize what you've done to them. So Howard says, well, let me ask you this. And then Linda says, if not with me, then someone else. Howard says, don't you think it's just a little bit hypocritical for you to kill your mother, then accuse me of the things you've accused me of? And Linda says, no. And he says, you don't think it's hypocritical? And she says, no. And he says, you don't think it's hypocritical? And she says, no. And Howard says, you don't see any inconsistencies? And Linda says, Howard, I didn't mean to do what I did.

Yeah. And Howard says, but you did it. And Linda says, but yours was a plain execution, what you did. You knew. I had tried to bargain with you the whole time you knew when you made up that divorce what you did i didn't know howard said uh i don't uh i i don't think what i'm being blamed of is nearly as bad as what you've done and linda said howard how can howard can you i did something terrible and i know it but what you have done and howard goes um oh that's what she

says uh you have linda says you have broken some yourself you have broken at least three of them and howard says three what and linda says you've broken three of the ten commandments hey hey are we gonna are there is there weight attached to them does one commandment is that 30 points and one is like three points because i think murder is probably the heaviest thou shall not kill us that's got to be the most demerits i assume that's the yeah that's the worst that'll get you the most points off your license right your insurance will shoot through the roof there so because he cheated on her and is that the one she's doing covet thy neighbor that shit he said what have i broken she said i think you've committed adultery he said no i did

not which we know isn't true she said there isn't anybody i and he says i didn't sleep with any other women as long as we were married so linda said howard i know you've lied and you've cheated and you stole uh you know you know good and well and he says be specific where did i lie she she says you lied to me about what the divorce you knew you were stealing when you put all that down on that stuff she's saying you fucked you made the papers you wrote them to be weighted toward you and blah blah blah so um yeah they're going on arguing about the divorce a little bit, talking about inheritance, talking about all that kind of shit.

You murdered a 75-year-old woman. They go past that and talk about money again. So they said, Howard said, but you're not entitled to it for one second. Linda said, I'm not going to use it. I've had nothing to use except that. How do you think? And Howard said, but you're not entitled to it for one second. Linda said, I'm not going to use it. I've had nothing to use except that. How do you think? And Howard said, you don't understand.

You weren't entitled to your mother's estate. Listen to me. Linda said, I know that. And they go back and forth on that. So Howard said, and there's nothing in here in the property settlement. You've got your mother's estate. You've got Sam Hughes's estate. It went to Sam and then went to her.

So Linda said, I didn't get anything from Sam Hughes's estate. It went to Sam and then went to her. So Linda said, I didn't get anything from Sam Hughes yet. Maybe down the road I will. I have not gotten one penny and I won't. So Howard said, hold on, but you got it. Had I known that you were going to give me the problems you're giving me, I might, if I'd been able to look in that crystal ball, I might have done something about it to ensure you wouldn't get a goddamn thing. And she says, well, I can take it and put it up and I can put it up for them. I haven't put it up for them. I'm not asking Howard. I've tried to bargain with you this whole divorce. And when I realize what you've done to me, I've never tried to take advantage of you in the divorce. They're going back and forth. You don't give a damn. That's exactly how you feel. I do give a damn. No, you don't. If you love these children, you wouldn't treat them like that's exactly how you feel I do give a damn no you don't if you love these children you wouldn't treat them like that

they're going back and forth on all of that shit then this is fucking wild too he says I have someone who will sign a statement 9.30 at night she came home okay Howard said oh you're crazy Linda said I'm not crazy I know good and well what's happening with those children.

They're fucking going off about the children. It's like, let's go back to the murder. Yeah, let's talk about that. So they're talking about the kids and Howard goes, do you care for them as much as you cared for your mother? Linda says, no, I love the children more. I'd do anything for them. Howard said, do you love them more than you loved your brother? And said yes i do howard said because sam hugh would be alive today if it wasn't for you if you'd gone to van buren the way i told you to we might still be alive

today linda said howard all i want for these children all i want is to give them a home i want to do the best for him blah blah blah for them all this shit howard goes oh my god jesus christ can you imagine going through divorce and your wife telling you that you murdered somebody? The amount of the screaming you'd be doing. What are you talking about? She clearly did it. You think? She said, Howard said, you're not saying that very convincingly.

She said, yes, I am. Howard said, then what was the mattress doing in there between your mother's room and the kitchen? Linda said, I don't know, but it wasn't for Bobby. He stayed in the car. He was asleep. She brought the fucking kids with her. Holy shit. She brought the kids.

He said, you know, you told me you left little Bobby in the car the night you went to your mother's and you told me he stayed in the car that he didn't go in the house. Is that right? Wow. He said, so you and your mother just had a nice long discussion while the child sat outside. Linda said he was asleep. Howard said your mother didn't want to see him. Linda said, I just told you he did not go into the house. Howard said, you promised me that? Yes, Howard, yes. So Howard says, you know you talk a lot about psychological trauma to a child. If he saw you kill your mother, he'd never get over that. Linda said, he was in the car, Howard. Howard says, how do I know? How do I know you're telling the truth about Bobby being in the car?

Linda says, you'll have to just take my word, but he was in the car. I do know that if he, if what I feel I feel like, uh, if the children, um, if I'm not happy with the situation with the children and you know that I think you've done something, you've done a lot of foolish things in the last couple of months. And if the counselor, uh, I want them tested. You cold hearted bitch. She goes into that. I want them tested. And, uh, Howard goes, well, you get a court order and then we'll figure that out so howard says you're trying to ruin me aren't you and she says no i'm not i'm not trying to ruin you howard uh i know that you uh i know that i you know that i worked in that marriage and i'm entitled to part of it okay so they're going on there um holy shit he keeps

circling back though that's the thing he keeps circling back coming. That's the thing. He keeps circling back, coming back to the murder. Yeah. Um, and, so they said, uh, she said, okay,

here it is. Linda. Um, uh, she kind of liked, oh, Linda, she kind of,

she's kind of like you talking about the mom about Howard. When she gets mad, she just tears you apart, tears whoever's there apart. So I took it all those years and i took it from you when i stayed in that marriage you were really both a lot alike you all demolished me both of you so howard said you demolished yourself when you killed her linda said i didn't mean to i still don't think i did it i know i started it what so she's saying i know i started

maybe i hit her a couple times and then someone else came over and was like, cool, there's a half-dead old lady. I can finish the job. This will be easy now. This will be super easy. Yeah, she's got it all loosened up for me. Now it'll pop right off the top. It's a pickle jar. Real can you start my orange kind of murder, you know what I mean?

What a crazy bitch. Wow. So Howard said, well, who do you think did and she said i think sam hugh did but that doesn't matter i know i started it i did so completely independent of you he came over and finished killing your mother what the hell is she talking about howard said how many times did you hit her two or three linda said it's more than 10 howard said what did you hit her with now we find out linda said she had a little she was i guess in the den doing something she had a little it wasn't a hammer but a little something like that it was laying on the table howard i know that uh i know that i did wrong and you know i did wrong but but still, why is it that you get to play God and say, do whatever I say?

Do you think those two children would tell you they were happy? And Howard said, you told me that you've been going to a doctor. Linda said, I went to a counselor. Yes, I did. Howard said, I'm aware of the fact that you killed once. How do I know you won't go berserk and do it again? Yeah, no kidding. Linda said, you you don't which is a terrifying answer holy shit oh by the way what he the murder weapon was a gavel it's a gavel from a plaque that was given to sam hugh

while he was a prosecutor like an award an award An award, a plaque, whatever it is. They took it off. She yanked it off of the plaque. What the fuck? That's what it is. A gavel. You, sir, may fuck off. That's a huge fucking.

So Howard said, wow. She said, that's ridiculous, blah, blah, blah. Oh, my God. So Linda goes on. They play this whole tape for linda and she's just there's nothing she can say nothing the cops too they talked about beforehand when we interrogate her do we play her the tape or do we just like tell her what we know and they go why let her lie just play the tape and then yeah that's that's the end of it it's over at that point

so she doesn't have a lot to really fall back on what are you gonna do you just you presented with that and you know there's nothing you can do here's you talking about murdering your mother in detail i kind of wish they'd given her the chance to lie but i would yeah this is a this is an interrogation i wish they had a video of because i would like to see her go so did you kill your mother and then have her go no no no no no and give an alibi and then go cool and then just hit play and just sit there? What about when you were asleep in the car? Yeah. It's like the interrogation of the suitcase lady, except their fucking computer didn't work, which was the worst.

God, those two were the worst interrogators of all time. They were terrible. They edged the shit out of anybody watching that. Dude, we could have done a better job. Me and you in that room could have gotten more out of her than that i'd have my fucking laptop battery charged at least i had that down so getting her to just like give herself her self-imposed sentence though was pretty funny that was funny yeah well i'm never drinking again i'm good there we'll do a bonus on her but i gotta

get home to my kids when they're like all cocky sitting back going, yeah, well, here's the video. Click. And it's just like two seconds and it goes black. And she's like, your computer died. Your battery died. Yeah. It's like, that's amazing. Oh, my God.

That's so amazing. Here's the tape of you saying this. Well, your battery's dead. Well, your battery's dead. So Linda said that this whole thing started when her husband went out of town on that camping trip and she found the letter in a suit jacket. Okay. Okay. She said that she, on a whim, because she needed some support, she drove to Van Buren hoping her mother would give her a it's okay.

She's looking for support. She's looking for a hug and a I'm so sorry, honey. Everything's going to be all right type of shit. That's what she's looking for. She said she wanted her mom to say you can come here. You have your children. Life is great. But instead, she told Linda, I told you you never should have married that fucking guy anyway but you never listened to me i told you you shouldn't

have had all those goddamn kids you had to have four kids and you had to marry this fucking idiot and that's what you get now you're getting what you deserve stupid why don't you listen to me in the first place you never listen to me that's first place? You never listen to me. That's what it is. You never listen to anything I say. And then she sat down on the bed. I'm going to bed. Sat down with the nightgown. And Linda told the police office, a police officer said, Linda told me she snapped. She went into a rage.

Wow. Quote, what Linda did there was a gavel that had come off a plaque that Sam Hugh had gotten when he left the U.S. prosecuting attorney's office. It was lying down on the table. So Linda picked up that gavel and hit her a minimum of 10 times. Oh, my. Drove, got, left the house and drove back, throwing the gavel out as she left. That's why they never found it. And they didn't even know it was on that plaque. They didn't know. They just thought it was a plaque. They didn't know, throwing the gavel out as she left. That's why they never found it.

And they didn't even know it was on that plaque. They didn't know. They just thought it was a plaque. They didn't know there was a gavel missing. Sam Hugh didn't notice it when he walked through. So they said, basically, if she, the reason why Howard found out about it, because this isn't the first time Howard found out about it in this tape. Howard knew about it because he knew of the mileage on the chevette he knew that she drove the fucking chevette that weekend so he sat her down so much about that piece of shit car he solved the murder over a over chevette mileage he put two and two fucking car in i'm already over mileage he put two and two together of how

many miles it is there and there and he said holy shit linda went there holy fuck so he just he he's a lawyer and he just harangued her until she admitted it wow and then howard sat on that for more than a year and a half what a dick until he needed it yep he said this is the way you have some upper hand in a divorce you have fucking evidence of your wife's murder in your back pocket that's how you get to bang whoever the fuck you want yes you don't like banging judy in her hot ass i'll tell the cops you murder people that's it i will bang judy all day long so um they're the anita paddock said there was never a trial uh the charge was dropped to second degree murder right and she was sent to prison you ma'am may fuck off 20 years with the possibility of parole what she served less than five years she was paroled in just over four years oh my god she

served barely four years for viciously murdering her mother with a gavel mother's death with a gavel she took off of an award just because her mom was being sort of a bitch which is not enough to murder just because her mom gave her honesty really yeah bitch, which is not enough to murder. Just because her mom gave her honesty, really. Yeah, I mean, that's not what she needed at that point. She could have told her everything will be all right while she's there. And then the next day went, I told you so, Jesus Christ. But while she's sobbing at your fucking doorstep, you give her a hug and you go, sorry. You know, but this is shit.

Here's what I think. This is why this makes me mad is because this wasn't a fuck this. She went there to do something. Why would she go there and leave her kid in the car? If she's going to talk to her mom, if she's going in just to talk to her mom, she'd bring the kid in the house and lay him down on a bed. The kid's going to be more comfortable and she's going to be there more than five minutes if she's looking to be consoled about her husband cheating yeah so bring the kid in lay the kid down on a bed talk to your mom and then drive home you only way you already met do you think she called her and then she gave her the right act over the phone she's like i'm gonna go we'll talk about this face to face that is highly possible yeah that's very possible she came over while mom was getting

ready to go to bed yeah and that happened but this shit there was no way she went over there not not to in my opinion i think she's going over there to to kill her mother four years four years four years and then hit it for that long too which to me makes it way worse when i'm doing sentencing the fact that she sat on it hit it james she minimized it so much she compared this man cheating on her to murder that's what i mean to her it didn't matter that was an accident howard what you did was on purpose your dick didn't fall in judy i just happened to accidentally bash my mother's skull in with a gavel then drag her across the fucking house and leave her with a quilt over because you didn't because you didn't come in the act of

murder and he he did the same thing what wild he's worse than you worse and she just laid the she laid the quilt on her because she didn't she felt she's a normal person so she wasn't you know she felt some guilt about it. And she wouldn't look at the blood when she was going through the murder scene, whereas a normal person wouldn't be able to help. They would try not to look at it and keep, you know what I mean? Four years. You would look away, but your eyes would keep going to it if you were genuinely horrified by this. Only served four years for this

four years and so fucking howard not i get that howard set her up and all that kind of shit but he fucking he should he sat on this information yeah he at least should be disbarred i would imagine for christ's sake if you held fucking sat on murder information while you're doing shit he shouldn't get children he shouldn't be a father of children but he i'm sure that they you know they he he had multiple things to gain there he could make a deal and make sure that that didn't happen but they were just happy that he turned her in so they didn't care paying child support good for him yep um she not doing that um uh ron fields the district attorney said it was a crime that but for her husband calling and turning her in would not have been solved to this day. And to this day, people would have said Sam Hugh did it.

Everybody just said, oh, that murderer died when Sam Hugh died to death after his mom had a guilt. Now, Ruiz lives on, honestly, here. I just I found StoneGateAntiques.net. One of her dolls is on here for sale. What? It just sold. It is a rare 1900 sample black granny doll by Rui Ann Park. I don't know if she sold it or made it. This exceptional one-of-a-kind circa 1900 cloth doll was made and designed by Rui Ann Park, a Van Buren, Arkansas Civil War history author who wrote Civil War letters of the Shibley brothers, Van Buren, Arkansas.

They're auctioning off her dolls because they're so good. Yeah, it couldn't have been 1900 because she was born in 1905. So it's 1920 at the earliest. But still, this extremely rare sample doll was at one time exhibited by Mrs. Park at a Van Buren drugstore for marketing purposes. Orders would be taken at the drugstore based upon her sample doll or dolls that were displayed. This was a display doll, and they put orders in it. She'd make, yeah. The richly detailed, finely executed doll wears two authenticating cloth tags to attest to this doll's providence.

One tag is hand-inked in script tag. In script tag sewn to the base of the doll's apron reads sample, In script tag sewn to the base of the doll's apron reads sample, and the other is a machine-printed tag that's stitched to the waistband that reads, Designed by Rui-Ann Park, Van Buren, Arkansas. All rights reserved. This lovely 13.5-inch-long granny doll has a delicately designed, serious-looking face that's been carefully hand-etched in ink. Her curly gray pulled-back hair into a bun at the nape of her neck crafted from yarn and she wears

a small proper brown cloth with a hat, cloth hat with pink banding. Oh my goodness. She's got pantaloons and everything else. How much did it sell for? I don't know. It doesn't say. Couldn't find out. The extraordinarily rare

doll with her very unusual documented provenance is very, very fine condition. A truly superb black doll beckoning to the most sophisticated of doll collectors. Also offered from the same wonderful doll collection as a circa 1920 black cloth doll named Sally, another must have. So you can find another one on there. But her dolls sell for, I mean i mean it seemed like a big deal yeah so i mean jesus christ she made that over a hundred years ago probably and yeah it just sold on i mean this is on the internet now so it's pretty impressive so there you go that's van buren arkansas everybody and what a fucking mystery just Just shirtless, joint-smoking, fucking strapping young men on horseback.

Santos went on to have probably plenty more days like that. Oh, so many more days. Jizzy sweaters and fucking Rui Ruiz. Rui Ruiz in the newspaper. In the newspaper. It's all been there. Oh, boy. Hope you enjoyed it.

If you did enjoy that, tell the world. Get on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts, whatever app, and give us five stars. It does help out a lot. Follow the show on social media as well. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Murder Small on Twitter. Find out there. Get all the latest, at Murder Small on Twitter. Find out there. Get all the latest, including announcements like this one. March the 3rd, the tickets for the rest of the tour go on sale.

Move at you. Hell yeah. Right now, you can still get the two shows in Seattle, two shows in Portland, one in Detroit, one in Pittsburgh through May. But then all the rest are on sale. D.C., Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Minneapolis, Chicago, Atlanta, fucking Philly, Boston,

Dallas. We're coming all over the place, everybody. Get your sweaters on. Here it comes. We can't wait to do this. So get your tickets then March 3rd for those, and obviously earlier whenever you want for the other shows. And available right now is the virtual live show tickets as well.

We're doing another virtual live April 20th. We cannot wait. We love those shows, and people have such a good time. And if you're in a place where we don't go, or if you just want to see another live show, do it up. It's just like a regular live show, just like we're, you know the only difference is you're in your goddamn living room chilling out doing what you want and we're we have a screen behind us just like the stage it's the regular thing so you can get all of that at shut up and give me murder.com so please do that today and also on march 3rd in addition you want to definitely head over to patreon.com slash crime and sports where you get all of the bonus materials.

So much bonus material there. New stuff. First of all, you're going to get the whole back catalog. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get all the old bonus stuff. It's 150 episodes plus. And new episodes every other week. You can't beat it. This week is no exception.

What we have this week for crime and Sports, which you'll get access to, we're going to talk about death row baseball teams. The early 1900s it was a thing where death row had baseball teams for some reason. It's America's game. I don't know. If you have a bad outing, you get knocked

out in the second inning, they just take you right to the chair or what, but you struck out four times, Johnny. I'm sorry. We're going to have to take you over here to the firing squad. Head on out to the gallows in left field. It's so weird. Yeah, they're out there just to make sure they put the gallows out there.

Real ominous. And there's like an eight-year-old in every one of these pictures, too, as like a ball boy. Who the hell is allowing their eight-year-old to hang out with all these fucking murderers? So we'll talk about death row baseball. And for small town murder uh more crazy stuff we're going to talk about defunct theme parks around america which are some places were built in the middle of nowhere hoping people would come some places were built in good places or places with population but they're just terrible ideas and when they found you had to head on out to the gallows in center field.

That's it. Right out in center field, we're going to have a hanging. The losing team will be hung today. Hanged. Whatever. So check that out. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And, of course, if you sign up for that, you also are going to receive a shout-out.

Yes. And those shout-outs happen right goddamn now jimmy hit me with the names of the people who would never ever ever bring their kids over in the middle of the night to bash our heads in with a ceremonial gavel please hit me with them right now this week's executive producer jordan bennett marion khan i believe pat the only fans guy oh boy know who he is well then thank you evidently he's doing fantastic good for him thank you for sharing your your never mind i use that word in multiple ways from purpose your penis earned cash uh yes exactly

other producers are alice muller corporal carl kner, Peyton Meadows, Cody Leversey in Detroit. Thank you, Cody. Liz Vasquez, good to see you in St. Louis. Steve Schnell, Carrie McCall, Madeline Ashton. That's from fucking Overboard. Yes, it is. Wasn't it? Suhail Suhail Suhail Torres and her son Aiden.

Happy birthday, Aiden. Jan Janice Hill Brandy Huntley Wayne Powers and Nicole Dunn uh Melissa Voorhees Lynette Smith for Brooke Jesse uh Jamie Belts Jordan Rua I think Sheila with no last name Lena oh boy uh I just ate Lena's name. He just broke Jimmy. Lena Dorsey, Jordan Piercy, August Robertson, Eric Helmers, Jay Bird, Rachel Patterson, Cassandra Harmon, Tyler Brocious. Hey, wait. Is that- Scott Brocious's little brother? Or Curly Bill's kid.

Scott Brocious, 98 MVP of the World Series. Come on. Maybe. Is his kid Tyler? Maybe. I don't think so so that was with an s right yeah yeah this is a c yeah oh jesus jamie rice ashley jackson molly cruz brett marsh lauren wedbetter yankee doodle rob munsweetie man sweaty man sweaty man sweaty man you're sweaty, Rob. I am Rob's sweaty. Adam's.

Rob, man, sweaty. Adam Simmons, Mysterious Higgs, Joseph Williams, Sue Maring Moreau? I don't know. Colin Kummer. Gross. Brandy Bell, Bill McInnes, Jason Loggins, Elias Elias, Josh Espermama. Esperanza, Josh Esperanza, Kristen Lindell, Heather Holst, Rain Courtnage, Aisha D., Jocelyn Emerson, Hillary with no last name, McKenna Askin, Maria Chavez, Jeffreyries, Sammy with no last name, Dennis Quinn, Matt Glassie, Megan Liebernecht, Caitlin Brine, Zachary Rock, Mary Sanders, Sash with no last name, Adrian with no last name, Glenn Burstyn, Kimi O'Neill-Barden, that's not the right word, Kimi with no last name. Steffi B. James Page. Sarah Barks. Angry Mailman.

Mr. Bragg. Savannah Lamason. Lamason. Latchy. Latchy McLaren. Megan Marks. Andy Runner. Lauren Kohler.

Hope. Boy, oh boy. Cherie, I think. Kim Toes. Madeline Carroll. I think. I hope. Beth Kennedy. Amber Sen. Ashley Kwasny. Madeline Carroll. I think, I hope. Beth Kennedy.

Amber Sen. Ashley Kwasny. Nellie. Oh, Lillibladge. Lil' Jablad. Lil' Jablad? Yeah. Steven Dukes.

Just Steve Dukes. Adam Gonzalez. Kathy Funk. Michael Mangione. Mangone? Mangone, right? I don't know. It's Italian.

Kaylee. No last name. Ashley Lemon. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Jessica Coburn. Scott Estep. Carrie Rowling Wilson. mangany right i don't know it's italian kaylee with no last name ashley lemon jessica coburn scott eastep carrie rolling wilson emily ann brown sarah roke eric oh cremin crementowski uh sonia talam talamentes i gotta really wind up ray jones carolyn springer caitlin butler Ray Jones, Carolyn Springer, Caitlin Butler. Wind up on the pitch. Hello, Dad. Rhiannon Hazel.

Oh, Rhiannon Hazel. Hazel. Hazel. I think it's Hazel. Yeah. Why not? I know that girl. She's wonderful.

Roxy Zolman, Amy Goodwin Docket, Sarah Bradshaw Tomu with no last name. Mary McLean, Sarah Bailey, Bailey Hicks. What? Somebody with a last name of Bailey and then somebody with the first name of Bailey directly behind each other. That's bananas. Lexi Hood. Dakota Maxwell. Danielle Kirkamellis.

Yeah. Get them. Cowker. What is that name? Brandi Hale. David Hilton. Chris with no last name. Josh Hobing. Hobing. Hobing. Hobing. Yep. Brianna Wilson. Jorge Lara. Nate Burns. that name brandy hale david hilton chris with no last name josh hobing hobing oh yep brianna wilson

uh jorge lara nate burns michael doctor toriel bird uh baird beard uh aaron right to right to sema ritzema ritzema salvaged unit shalo o'connell k russell night oh boy naim naim naim savage Ronald K. Russell. Oh, boy. Naeem Savage. I don't know. Savage. Aaron L. Jones. Amber Jones. Who knows? Melanie Revel.

Sway with no last name. Gabby M. Olivia Moon loves Jimmy Wisman. I can say that shit. Hazel Tifatea. wisteria curry curry uh rice reese rice what is that race what is that that english shit r-h-y-s reese reese morrish reese reese reese margaret spence dustin with no last name john larson uh jason fonder monica hunt zoria elkins tammy mclean, Devin Burke, Tracy Heflin,

Crystal Bray, Missy Norris, Bratt Ramsey, Trista Griffin, Liam Ruff, Joe Estrada, Hosne Abakinar. What is this? Hosne Abakar. Does magic happen after that? I don't know. Am I supposed to disappear like a rabbit pops out? Yeah.

Justin with no last name. Carolyn with no last name. Marcianne with no last name. Gloria Polovetsky. Polizofsky. Brody LeBlanc. Winter Steinway. Jen Spracklin Bradley.

Alexandria Polowski. Alicia Cianci Gorder. Audrey Sellers. Ernie Mangja, David with no last name, Brian Morse, Joshua Harper, Declan Divers, E.K. with no last name, Nicole Schulds, Anna Lee Worley, Ryan P., Christopher Buchanan, Aaron Crossland, Paulette Blunt, Sandy Bricks, Kate Patton, Elias Wyckoff, Melody C, Paige Westover, Ida Sampson, Bobby Q with a W. What did I do there? That's the best type. Bobby Q?

Sorry. Babby Q. Sorry about that. I don't know what to tell you. I ruined it. Janine Lolek, Liz Gearing, Roger with no last name jeff martins matt coot cootie maybe uh alex with no last name saint knid tim knight uh what is this mikey panhandle brown wayne powers stephanie minnick jennifer taylor jason nunley josh haas deb moores deb's more uh

timmy time time with no last name uh dare that's not that's a fucking that's got to be an autocorrect also dare mcwilliams uh maybe maybe maybe not maybe just a cool last name andrea bodo vitale uh adam grabowski hey he's a comedian he's a wonderful kid uh i think he lives in arizona i can't remember good dude uh george skull justin farmer karen a day with no last name i I am Petty. Me too. Jillian Desso. Tyler? Tyler St. Bernard. Kimberly Besong. Spencer Bishop.

Zach Kroon. Austin with no last name. Lisa Johnson. Colby Kingsbury. Joseph Stryka. Suzanne Gribble. Kim with no last name. Catherine McEwen.

Carol Fudella. Erlin. Erlin and Kevin. Jonna. Jonah. Jonna Chappelle? Chappelle, Chappelle. Whatever your fucking name is. Joanna Chappelle or Jonna Chappelle.

Somewhere in between there. You knew I was going to ruin it. Katie Nolan, Jordan Gwynn, The Boulder with no last name, Laurie Higginbottom, and all of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us we're fucking just blown away by it thank you uh we consistent yeah are completely just in your so much gratitude we can't even tell you we're in your debt we love you thank you hope you enjoy the episodes a lot we love making the patreons

they're so much fun so uh if you did enjoy that get on patreon tell us about it uh also if you want to follow us on social media individually real easy to do shut up and give me murder.com there's links to everything while you're getting the tickets for the rest of the tour and your virtual live show 420 jimmy's gonna get stone tickets you can get those tickets as well that said holy shit it's been a wild time and i think we have to go uh wash off after that what do you think jimmy let's do that you know what i'm gonna light a joint take my shirt off and get on a horse what do you think let's do this until next week everybody it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.