Small Town Murder - #377 - A Deadly Love Hexagon - Hope, Alaska

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

This week, in Hope, Alaska, seemingly every man in the state is after one young lady. A transplant, from New Orleans, by way of an attempted New York modeling career, who is currently the star dancer at the biggest strip club in town. At one point, she's engaged to at least 3 men, at once. This all leads to a horrible, and inevitable murder, with a very specific weapon, making it easier to narrow down suspects. This one turns into a giant mess, so make sure to listen until the end!!Along the way, we find out that we need bathrooms, to call something a vacation, that you shouldn't live with your fiance, and her fiance, and that if someone is killed near a tree, and nobody hears it...Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hope, Alaska, what seems like half the male population of the state is in love with the same young lady with twisted and terrible results. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another wild, crazy edition of Small Town Murder. And this is no different. Whenever we head to a place like Alaska, you know there's craziness going on. It's just, it's unruly up there, we'll say.

So before we get to that insane story this week, and this is one of those you got to listen all the way to the end because holy hell. It's got a left hook coming at you for when you least expect it a nice curveball before we get to that very quickly head over to shut up and give me murder.com you're going to get everything there all of your merchandise tickets to live shows everybody may the 5th detroit get your tickets come and see us we cannot wait and may the 6th in pittsburgh definitely come out and see us pretty much everything between that pittsburgh show and the chicago show in august is sold out all of everything is sold out so moving fast but chicago get your tickets for that as well

august the 12th let's do that uh april 20th virtual live show oh my goodness the 420 virtual live show it's available for a week after that. You can buy it at any point. Watch it as much as you want. I'm going to get Jimmy super stoned with some crazy stuff that I have for him, some apparatus for him to try out. It's going to be a lot of fun and going to tell a wild murder story, just like a live show, except you're in your living room or on your back patio

or, I don't know, in your car in a parking lot. I don't care where you watch it. Watch it wherever you want. Check that out. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that. You also want to go to Patreon.com slash crime and sports. It's all your bonus material. Right.

Anybody $5 or above gets access to everything. All of the back. There's like 200 almost bonus episodes you can binge on. And then new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. Yes. Absolutely. And for crime and sports this week, it's a special week, of course.

Personal ads are back. A couple times a year we hit up the personal ads, and they're always a favorite to everybody. So we can't wait for that. Personal ads. Hear what people in the 80s tried to say to attract people through the newspaper. We'll hear about that. Then for small town murder, we are going to talk about in our serial killer childhood series. We're going to dive back into that and talk about BTK's childhood.

Terrific. A lot of it is self-described. Oh, boy. He's such a creep some of the things he says it's wild so check all that out patreon.com slash crime and sports that said i think it's time for the disclaimer here this is this is a comedy show it is we're comedians um we're definitely comedians there's definitely going to be murder and there's definitely going to be jokes but the jokes see this is the thing we don't think it's there's definitely going to be murder and there's definitely going to be jokes. But the jokes, see, this is the thing.

We don't think there's anything funny about the actual murder. When someone's head is being removed, we're not like, that's hilarious. That's so funny. But there's a lot of other stuff around a murder that is hilarious. For instance, the idea, hey, I think I'll kill this person. I'll probably get away with it. That's no problem. That's a crazy thought to have.

As comedians, we're going to make fun of that. We're going to make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere terrible yeah and it's a nice it's a roast environment so have fun with that but what we do not do what we never do is we don't make fun of the victims yeah or the victims families why james because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags see how that works so yeah that sounds good to you. You want to hear a crazy story, you're in for one. If you think true crime and comedy

should never, ever, ever go together, maybe we're not. Maybe we're just not a good match for each other, everybody. You never know. But we think maybe you should give it a chance and if you are, I think it's time to sit back

and where are you right now? What are you doing? What are you like? Are you deep sea fishing right now for tuna? Is that what you're doing? You're out are you deep sea fishing right now for tuna is that what you're doing you're out there oh pull it in well somebody someone's got a hold of a good one there they're leaning over they can't do it shove them right overboard toss them right over watch your little feet go into the water swim with the tunas and as they're as they're swirling the deep blue sea i want you to shout shut up give me murder we don't actually want you to do

those things by the way don't do that please um also definitely your stupid opinions is coming our new show where we talk about reviews of everything from all over the internet and make fun of people's crazy reviews we We can't wait for that. That said, let's go on a trip. What do you say, Jimmy? Let's get into this. We are going all the way up to Alaska this time. Yeah, we're getting out of the continental U.S. here.

Get out there where nobody's looking. That's it. It's all happening in the shadows up there. We're doing it. We're going to. Everybody forgets about it. Oh, because there's not a lot going on. Well, there is a lot going on, but it's just not.

It's all happening. It's just happening in the woods is the problem. It's all happening in the woods. We're going to Hope, Alaska. Hope. That is a very optimistic name for a town in Alaska. I think there's a good reason for it too because it has to do with gold and all that shit we'll get into it uh it's in south central alaska

it's almost two hours to anchorage an hour 50 um it's just hard to get there through the the highway systems aren't great in alaska you have to go around shit a lot of mountains god damn it yeah it's uh two hours and 25 minutes to Wasilla, which is the other direction. And our last episode, it is 16 hours. Holy shit. In one state, you can go 16 hours to Kodiak, which was the last one. Who the fuck do they think they are, Texas? It's bigger than Texas.

It's huge up there. It's enormous. 16 hours away? That's crazy. And if it snows, it's 38 hours Texas. It's huge up there. It's enormous. 16 hours away? That's crazy. And if it snows, it's 38 hours. Yeah, forget about it. You want to just stop. It could be six weeks.

It's whenever spring comes at that point. Check your calendar to see. The county is in Kenai Peninsula Borough. That's the county. Area code 907, which you don't hear a lot of that. No. History here, the first gold rush in Alaska happened here in Hope. Oh.

That's why it's called Hope, I believe, here. This was before the Klondike deal or any of that shit. Really? This is the first one. The first gold rush happened in Hope, and this is before Anchorage was even founded. Oh. They had a big gold rush in Hope, and it was a this is before anchorage was even founded oh they had a big gold rush in hope and it was a boom town it was like deadwood or tombstone or any of those places so if you watch like tombstone or you watch deadwood and you go jesus imagine being one of these crazy bastards that would go out to this middle of nowhere outpost just for the hope of

getting some gold now that times 10 if you're going to Alaska back then. And then add ice. Add grizzly bears and ice, and it's insanity in Alaska. It's hard to get by up there. The discovery of gold in Six Mile Creek in 1895 reached Seattle, and everybody had it up there. 3,000 people were up there immediately when they heard it was from from that area, from the northwest, because word got around quick. There's gold up there. Yeah, and those people there were already looking for it anyway, so they're already outfitted.

Absolutely. And they all came by boat. They're rowing themselves. Literally, they rowed themselves up there. Up the coast. Yeah. It's wild. A few of the men, when they got there they were

trying to decide how to name the town yeah this is amazing and they said we'll name it after the next person that gets off a boat literally and they stood on the shore and the next guy that pulled up on the on the boat was a 17 year old named percy hope that was there for for gold and they were like you're the one, buddy. There you go. Hope, Alaska. Perfect, too. It could have been some long Polish name.

It could have been anything. That would have been amazing. I would have liked if it was like an Italian person with a long name. There's not a lot of Petrogallo, Alaska's. You know what I mean? That would be pretty funny, funny watching people try to what the hell does this mean up there but it's it that sounds like something that would be named there though because there was oil so they have gallons of petro sounds like a thing but nope it is a 17 year old who got off the boat at just the right time and they were all hoping for gold, too.

Absolutely. He was a prospector at 17. So it soon had hotels and stores. It was like Deadwood or Tombstone. It was a boom town. And then that was very short-lived, though. By 1898, the Klondike gold rush had happened, and all the miners in Hope packed up for klondike where there was bigger veins so they all went there a lot of the original buildings that they built in hope are still in use today what yeah they just haven't built anything new the uh the original school

house is now the library so shit like that um today this is it's just a woodland area out here. I mean, there's like a general store and cabins you can rent and people who live in the woods, and that's it. The school district is a K through 12 and has about 15 kids in it. Yeah. In all 12 grades, there's 15 kids. Jesus Christ. So that's a lot. There might be one third grader. Maybe.

Or three fourth graders, no third grader. Maybe. Or three fourth graders. No third graders. Just that one teacher waiting there. Boy, I'd love to teach third graders today, but there is none. None exist. Wait till next year. Reviews of this town. There are none because there's no people here.

But there's a few people here. But I did find reviews of the lodge that's here that you can go. Oh, terrific. The Bear Creek Lodge. here but i did find reviews of the lodge that's here that you can go oh terrific the bear creek lodge and it's it's cabins and it's you know nice um here's one here uh here's a review and uh negatives they have some negatives here um staff our uh staff checked us in a kid in parentheses how dare they hire someone a child a child uh didn't give us much info bathrooms were really cold and shower situation was uncomfortable wet bathroom so no shower mat shower rack just sat on floor now the reason is i say this is because you don't have your own bathroom in these lodges it's a shared bathroom situation where they have like a centralized bathroom which if i wow can you imagine going on vacation if you're camping it's one thing you have a tent and you know you understand you're

roughing it but you if you're living in a structure i expect a bathroom i expect to hold a shit in that's all i expect something a bathroom for just me just for me and mine yeah um now the the positives wonderful little property with the creek and pond providing a beautiful setting the cabins were super cute and cozy really nice having a coffee shop and restaurant right there especially since there's not much else around you're in the middle of the woods in Alaska. No, there isn't. Everything tasted great. Okay. What would you do if it didn't?

Still eat it. Live music was nice, too. What the hell kind of bands do you think they're getting to come out there? I wouldn't say bands. I would say a guy with an acoustic. Yeah, a guy with an acoustic and eight Cat Stevens songs and he's out there. That's it. It's not a band. No. That's it. It's not a van.

No. Let's see. Here's another one. Waking up to such beautiful surroundings was a definite plus. It said, I thought our cabin would have one bedroom and then all the beds in the main room, but it was all in one room, but it all worked out. So there's no bedroom. It's just a room. It's a fucking cabin.

It's a cabin. It's a fucking cabin. It's a cabin. It's a room, right. Yeah. He expected some privacy. He's like, I didn't get to pork my wife the entire time I was there, which was a negative. Well, alone. I mean, I had to do it in front of the kids. I did.

I think most of the kids were asleep. Most of them. So I think it'll be all right. Very beautiful property, though. Rooms were clean. Bathrooms were clean. And the think it'll be all right. Very beautiful property, though. Rooms were clean. Bathrooms were clean. And the cafe in the morning was great. So that's nice.

And now here's another one. This is two out of five stars. The page that I looked at on Travelocity did not, in all capital letters, mention on the main page, mind you. That's where they need it. That's where they need it, right up front, that the cabins didn't include toilets. Okay. Now, as bitchy as this sounds,

There is a toilet. Yeah, as bitchy as this sounds, I want this information. It should be above the name of the place. Shared bathroom and then the name of the place. It should be a separate category. You have to choose to even have that and come up in your search results.

I'd like to sit where a stranger just shit five minutes ago. Right. I don't want, I need a warning. The toilet seat may still be warm. I need to know that. We'll smell what a stranger had for dinner tonight is not what I want to hear. I don't want to sit down and feel body heat pressing against my cheeks. I don't want it.

See a strange pube. I don't want to sit down and feel body heat pressing against my cheeks. I don't want it. See a strange pube? I don't want any part of that. I need a freezing cold pube. Strange stray pube over there. I need an ice cold bowl against my thighs and ass cheeks. If I'm paying money to go somewhere, it does not include sharing a bathroom. Never. That's free. is why you're in

the woods like in and this this the parks have to maintain it and they if they charge you a fee there has to be a toilet granted that's shared public toilet but if i'm paying yeah i need the toilet i want a toilet figure it out put a toilet in there i don't know what to tell you um as a senior who requires multiple trips to the bathroom each night that's if you're older and you got to keep getting up and leaving the cabin putting your shoes on yeah oh man uh this would have been important information to have before deciding to stay there i thought i was looking at a page for a hotel or resort not a camping experience that's rough i get it that would be a terrible terrible thing to realize when you get there that is that long of a trip and boy i gotta pee i just got here and i already gotta pee this is bad

every time a lot all night long you'd never sleep you'd come back in no okay here's the last one here uh peaceful tranquil quiet relaxing beautiful watch out and then says watch out for attack bees exclamation point what is tranquil and relaxing about attack bees that sounds terrifying not one of those words apply watch out for attack bees bees. Lizard candy. Be careful. That's what that is. Watch out for attack bees. Need to remove them. Salad is not your best dish. Otherwise, very kind staff and people.

Enjoyed our stay. Okay, but attack bees. That's rough. Population of this town, 105. Oh, boy. There's nobody here. It's, yeah. 13 of them are in school. 60 almost 64 percent male because it's a lot of like logging and fishing expedition jobs here and shit median

age there is no median age because of the people who actually live here the this can't be right but the stats they have are everyone in the town is over 75 years old. It's 63%, 75 to 84, and the rest are 85 and over, and the rest are, otherwise it's zero. Is that possible? That can't be, because they said 15 kids in school. But maybe that's in the town proper. Maybe the kids come from the woods around it. I don't know. Are they going to bust from from the wolf packs that they live in i'm

not sure 100 married okay so i mean with this little percent men with this little people that's what i mean with this little people the stats are all 100 white though that's one thing it is yeah 100 white um religion in this town, 33%. And the most prominent religion is other Christian. So I have no idea there. This place is crazy. All bets are off. All bets are to 105 people and they want to live in places with no toilets inside.

This is a crazy town. I don't know what to say here. They live very Alaska here. Definitely. is a crazy town i don't know what to say here this is why alaska here definitely uh politically in this county last uh election here 31.8 voted democratic 64.5 republican 3.6 independent they voted for like a bear from the neighborhood yeah how do you vote just a grizzly bear they wrote him in yeah i'll vote for this plant. It's beautiful.

It's Sam the bear from the neighborhood. It says 100% of the people here make, anytime it's 100% of the people, that's crazy. 100% of the people make between $20,000 and $30,000 a year. And they're all over 75 years old. I don't think these stats are... This place is crazy. It's crazy. Cost of living, 100 is average, regular.

Here it's 94.4. Median home cost here, $247,400. That's not bad. That's the median home value. It's not bad. So if we've convinced you, damn it, you don't need a bathroom inside anymore you've been pooping inside enough in your life you need to rock the boat in alaska let's have some adventure

when you need to pee at three in the morning let's go out there and see if an animal will attack you we have for you the hope alaska real estate report report all right your average two-bedroom rental eleven hundred fifty dollars okay which is about average um here's a three-bedroom three-bath 3132 square foot house this is not in the town itself there is no nothing available in the town. This is in the surrounding areas. There's a big house out there somewhere. Yeah, this is in Seward, Alaska, which is, I don't know how fucking far away it is.

It doesn't matter. It's a huge piece of shit, this house, too. 3,000 square feet of shit. It's a dump. It looks like an abandoned logging cabin from the outside. Not even a cabin, though. It looks like an abandoned logging cabin from the outside. It looks terrible. Not even a cabin, though.

It looks like guys built it with scrap wood. Fantastic. Whatever they could get, they just nailed it up together. Yeah, it looks like that. But T-Bowl for every B-Hole, so that's nice. That's nice. At least there's bathrooms. $275,000 for that, though.

Wow. Not too bad. Here's this one here. It's on a few acres it's two bedroom three bath 1454 square feet so not huge but really nice it's a really nice house like it's it's it's pretty it's nice on the inside the outside is idyllic it's incredible it's this beautiful little house right up on a lake um it's got a boat dock right out there and everything somebody's vacation joint for sure it has to be someone from anchorage that does well

685 000 bucks for this holy which is i mean for what it is you look at and you go holy shit this is paradise it looks like i mean in the summer i guess um here we go now maybe you maybe you you don't want to go up there and just live. Maybe you'd like to run a lodge. Maybe you'd like your own lodge. You want to buy a job? Let's buy a job. We have a 27-bedroom, 29-bath, 18,500-square-foot lodge hotel thing.

It's in Sterling, Alaska, and they're advertising it as, you know, do you want to have your own place for corporate retreats? Do you want this? Do you want that? It is $5,875,000 for that. Is it beautiful, though? I mean, yeah, it's nice. It's a place where you'd have, like, you know, I don't know

how you're going to fill 27 bedrooms here. Put it that way. I don't know how you're going to fill all these rooms, but you can do it. It's a bed and breakfast. Yeah, you need to have big groups come here all the time. So like a big wedding and a big corporate event. For $5 million. $5 million.

Things to do here. Well, here's one thing to do here. Jimmy, roll your chair over here because I'd like you to see one of these things to do. Oh! Is that sled driven by a fucking bear? Yeah. One of the things to do would be put on your suspenders

and just a dress shirt while there's three feet of snow on the ground because it's not cold out or anything. Yeah, there's no coat. No coat. And have a fucking bear pull your sled. What a kind of a tough son of a bitch is this guy. He's broken a bear's will to the point where it will pull him and he has no just he has an affinity for the cold he just has no cold reflex wow um you can also go to the hope sunrise historical mining museum

okay yeah um there's stuff about mining there but there's an old pickaxe there it said it's a great place to learn about local history and get insider directions that's how they advertise this museum you get good directions there think about that around yeah it's just a pickaxe and a lady who'll give you directions like you said these goddamn google maps are ruining our business never mind that you don't want to know about that these are the insider directions it says only the ones only we know about we don't let google go down them roads wow the resurrection creek gold panning so you since 1895 they've had gold there yeah so you can um go there and pan for gold that's it

yeah there's two specific areas where you have the best odds of finding a very small fortune it says so you find nuggets and they drop some flake in there every once in a while and you go that's all it is crime rate in this town what What we're interested in. Obviously. Yeah. There's no stats. Not. Because it's normally like the. You know.

Federal FBI. Crime statistics. That they give. They don't even bother. Checking here. We. We handle it in house. Not enough.

Yeah. More. There is more like. Animal attacks. Than people attacks. Never mind. Just let it happen. I imagine so. They're fucking with bears. They're having bears. Toe. Never mind. Just let it happen. I imagine so.

They're fucking with bears. They're having bears tow their sleds. What do you expect? So that said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do this. Let's get into it early this week because that town, there's not a lot there. There's 105 people trying to fish and sell each other accommodations with no toilets.

105 people beating bears one by one. Man. Imagine having the restaurant in that town. No. You don't have to even make it good. Well, nothing else for 100 miles. Alright, well I guess we're eating here.

This is it.'s some uh some having an elk burger food it's brown hot and plenty of it having moose chili come on up let's all do it so that said yeah let's talk about this murder here um all right let's talk about a young lady first of all let's talk about michelle shall we um michelle is with ease there's no eyes in that michelle m-e-c-h-e-l-e what michelle what the fuck is that that's i want to name her michelle but those damn eyes i just don't like them i don't like it when you know little kids will dot the eyes with like a heart or something i don't want to give her the opportunity to do that michelle michelle with an e what it has these the whole goddamn thing it's all these one l at the end they really this is difficult it's not a consonant put an e put an e so uh old michelle

over here she's uh michelle uh to talk about her a little bit here she uh michelle hughes she is at the time here michelle hughes she's born in 1973 ish here so she's born and raised in new orleans oh so as southern as you get down there that's probably where the e came from that's probably yeah i'm sure it's there's something there Her father is the first of her mother's husbands. Both of them ended in divorce. We'll talk about that. Michelle's father was in the Air Force. So when she was very little, they moved from city to city to city.

And then she ends up back with her mom living in New Orleans. Her father's going to end up dying. And it's weird because her her mother marries an airline employee so they start moving around and all this type of shit so her her life is on very unsteady ground it's on a lot of quicksand as a kid there's every morning there's a question yeah what are we doing where are we going who's this where there's a lot going on here so um her parents divorced when she was six and the weird thing is um her father moved to um to california and her sister melissa her older sister went with the father whereas michelle stayed with the mother in Louisiana, which is so, that's tough.

They generally don't split them up. No. But when they do, there's usually reasons for it. So that's fascinating. That's a compromise. That's a 70s, 80s compromise where we both want the kids. Well, tell you what, you get one, I get one. Yeah.

There you go. That's the compromise. Rather than let's do what's best for the kids that's what it was a different thing people are a little more selfish i think back then when it came to shit like that yeah so yeah her mother was from louisiana and her relatives lived there and they lived there for generations and all that kind of shit so she stays behind with her mom and uh she has kind of a rough childhood she really does um when she's 12 her father will die or 11 her father dies which is tough as well obviously for a little girl um even though he's gone yeah he's he's on the other side of the country um that year she gets diagnosed

with scoliosis as well oh shit which is you Which is, if you don't know, is a curvature of the spine. And this required frequent hospitalization. She spent a year and nine months in a body brace. Yeah. She spent like 12 and 13 in a body brace, basically. Which is tough. That is tough. That's tough for a kid at that age she

has like the the brace it girder yeah yeah the thing like yeah like uh like like d from always sunny right yeah yeah that's what she's got on like back then too it wasn't like sleek and you could wear it under your clothes this was like here you go robot lady enjoy hi have all the kids call you a monster bye and just push you out the door and you you go out there clanging and squeaking and shit waddle around with this thing hold on hey tommy i lost a screw can you grab that for me if i bend down it's gonna take a while to get back up again yeah screw fell out that is the bummer about uh anything that was medical fixed an ailment for children back then kids are cruel enough and then you're just gonna you're just

gonna make them stand out in this cruel shit fucking school especially in 1985 for christ's sake there was no kindness when it came to oh god that's. That's rough, so... It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. A year and nine months. Doctors ended up implanting a steel

rod in her back. She had to get that. That's how bad it was. Which she has a scar all the way down her spine that you can see very faintly. It's prominent. You can see. You can definitely notice it's there. But after that, she has perfect posture because she's got a steel rod in her back.

I mean, she is like straight up and down. Yeah. Chin up, tits out, ready for the world type of posture. They may as well have just fused your whole fucking spine you don't move it no she's not at all so she goes through all of that um now like her posture never goes away she always has this great posture so that's when she's like 11 through 13 now at 14 now her sister melissa had come back because her dad died dead so right sister came back her her sister's like three four years her dad died. So sister came back. Her sister's like three, four years older than her.

So she has a driver's license. So at 14, Michelle runs away from home with her sister's driver's license. Oh. Because they look similar. Yeah. And with girls, it's hard to tell. You change your hair color. You cut your hair.

They're totally fucking different. Some male cop's going to look and go, I don't know. Is that in Louisiana at this point? Yeah, this is in Louisiana. So takes her driver's license at 14 and runs away to New York. That's a long ride. Yeah. She runs away not to New Orleans or to Atlanta or something.

She goes all the way to New York City because she wants to be a model. New York City. New York City. Not even Gulf Coast. She goes all the way to New York City because she wants to be a model. New York City. New York City. Not even Gulf Coast. She went up. She went up to New York City to be a model. Wow. That's what she wanted to do.

This is 1987 or so. So she's 14 years old. Her sister's license after a minute here, she's 18. So she tells everyone she's 18 and has her sister's driver's license. And that's how she's trying to do everything. Wow. She just says, I'm 18 and I'm in New York City now. And that's it. That's who she is.

So she tries. Now, that's the official story that's actually true. Her mother tells a different story, though. What's her mom's story? Her mother tells it slightly different. A little bit different? A little bit. Her mother tells a story that makes her mother look slightly less irresponsible. Put it that way.

Slightly less like she lost a 14-year-old? Yeah, and more like she was helping her in a career path. It's a really different approach to it. Just a few words really changes the whole thing here. Can't wait. Just a few words really changes the whole thing here. I can't wait. Ran away at 14 to New York City pretending she's 18 with her sister's driver's license.

Or her mom Sandy says that she left home with permission at 16 to work at a pre-setup thing at a modeling agency in New York City. Yeah, I did this for her. Yeah, I set it all up, and we put her on a plane, and we went and saw her off at the fucking terminal and hugged her and said goodbye, and I gave her like a loaf of bread to take with her that I baked at home. No, that's not a... A picture of the family. A picture of the...

Don't forget us when you make a fish. Well, and Jesus, too. There was Jesus and the family. They were both in a locket, and you put them together, so by your heart... So they're touching. touching so they're touching that's how it works that's how she it's one or the other jimmy i don't know or or lost track of a 14 year old who ended up uh 2 000 miles away that's more like it that's more like it holy shit so she is in new york city for her whole for her teen years

for her high school year she spends them trying to model in new york city and hanging out at like clubs and bars and shit oh my god yeah this is what she does like home alone if macaulay culkin wanted to be a model. Yeah, if Macaulay Culkin had tits. Because she is using her adult body to get into places and things like that. She matured fast. Yeah, that's how she gets into clubs and stuff. That's how it works. So she ends up, there's a guy named Pat Giganti. Okay.

Pat Giganti here. He is her boyfriend from this era in new york in new york okay hey patty gigante how he's doing over there uh he met her at the iguana club on park avenue that's like a it's a nightclub it's a fucking nightclub on park avenue very popular place he met her there in 1990 when she's about 17 okay and he is in his late 30s by the way no she's saying she's 21 of course she is so her place that you gotta be her license says she's 21 yeah because she's got her sister's license by 1990 her sister's 21 so she's as far as this guy knows she's 21 but she's actually 17 nine years isn't a big deal i mean

you're a child what he's like 38 though oh god this is not good man this isn't good. It's half his age. Half his age. So... More than. And so you think, yeah, he's being a, you know, it's whatever. But according to what it seems like from the documentation, it seems like legal, you know, creepy, but legal. And, you know... Technically, yeah, but you were 21 when she was born. That's weird. That's weird weird you could have a beer she couldn't even take a breath he doesn't know that yet though oh he thinks she was in preschool when he was 21 which is so much better but you know mr gigante it's about to go

bad for you well and he's he put it this way about her, like, you know, because they were like, oh, were you corrupting her? And he said, quote, I'm from New York City. I come from a pretty fast place. And let me tell you, she made me feel like I was standing still. She's fast. Yeah. Holy. Yep.

They dated for three years, these two. This isn't a fleeting thing. They were together for three years. They broke up, but she still couldn't drink that is and he was like fuck it's tough being 40 yeah it's like i gotta go for a colonoscopy yeah wow um so he's that's crazy he's they dated for three years they lived together and worked together at the deli that he owned hey it's patty gigante's deli come on in everybody oh let's go the best italian combo in town all right he always smells like fucking like ham of some kind yeah always smells like capicola or something got a little bit of salted meat on your breath always there's a salted cured meat salami waft coming from him at all times just a salami

scent of salami yeah i like it so um yeah he didn't know anything he said that she was charming and impressive and everything like that people you'd present her to people and she'd be very impressive and oh wow yeah your girl's really her to people and she'd be very impressive and, oh, wow, your girl's really, you know, she's sharp, she's a smart one and all that kind of shit. Well, he also said that she had a bit of a split personality, the way he put it.

What does he mean? He said, quote, I like the way he puts guys who own delis speak very directly into the point. He said, she's like a thoroughbred racehorse for being cruel. What? What does that mean? She's genetically engineered to be cruel?

I don't know, but she is. This is what I mean. He put it in a way where if you're going to be cruel, what's the best racehorse? A thoroughbred racehorse she is that of cruelness with glistening muscles racing with all the other horses behind her just crueler than the rest if you stop motion camera her at some point she's off the ground it's wild so cruel so cruel by the way gigante also he also owns a construction business too of course he does hey patty patty gigante he's got a he's got his nice construction business and uh he's dating

the teenagers i will build you the best goddamn sandwich you ever had it's amazing the bridge you figure well i opened the deli because i figured you know i know how to build a house if i could make a house that people don't fall through the floors or not and i fall through all this shit i figured which ain't shit the way i could construct the sandwich you know i thought about it wow you know this is something i could really make people happy every day like this you know what i mean so she ends up i guess breaking up with pat and um returning to new orleans for a year or two okay she ends up going home where she gets her ged at home so she comes home and goes that was crazy spending my entire teen years running around new york city going to

clubs and bars and shit wow i just had like a real, like a Drew Barrymore childhood. This is fucking weird. It's real life already. That's what I mean. I shouldn't have been doing the things I'm doing. I'm going to go back to here and get a GED. So from New Orleans here with her GED in tow. Yeah.

Ready to hit the world and take it by storm with her Louisiana GED, which is a lot. She then moves to Alaska in 1994 when she's actually 21. So when she's truly actually 21, she moves to Alaska. Polar opposite. Which is a very, exactly, a very, well, kind of, because she moves to Alaska for a specific reason. Kind of because she moves to Alaska for a specific reason, not because it's beautiful, not because it's, you know, picturesque or she wants to open up a lodge for corporate retreats like in the real estate report. None of that. She heard that you can make real, real good money in Alaska at a particular profession.

So she gets a job at the, you know, on the outskirts of anchorage at the jimmy yeah great alaskan bush company she's a stripper that's right really the great america the great alaskan bush company stop it i didn't know that was a real place no i thought that was a joke yeah i know there's one in phoenix yeah so i just thought that was a i thought it was the only one here yeah and i thought it was like a joke yeah i don't know a stupid punny name yeah yeah yeah and it's because it's the all nude one so yeah it but what it's a real place it's it's the great alaskan bush company then they franchised it out apparently to other places i don't know why you'd want i don't think like okay if i want to go see naked women dance i'm not like yeah i bet alaska's got all the hot chicks that's never

what you think about maybe they do i'm not saying the women bet alaska's got all the hot chicks that's never what you think about maybe they do i'm not saying the women in alaska i don't know what the i've never been there i don't know what they look like but that's not the first thing that pops into your head is like man i bet they got some hot alaskan chicks in there i picture them with a big coat on i don't even picture them nude it's impossible to picture them nude well it that's because it's the all nude one the old it was at the time the only all-nude one in Phoenix, that was the allure, was that you actually got to see a vagina. Yeah. You get to throw dollars at a vagina.

At the Great Alaskan Bush Company in Alaska, though, the problem is the girls, every one of their little acts, it takes like 45 minutes because it takes forever. It's so much clothes. So many layers. It's the layers. They're like, oh, oh, she's down to her flannel. Okay. Oh, no, she took, okay, she's got a thermal on under that. Oh, yeah, come on, take that thermal off.

Yeah, oh, there's a sweatshirt on under there. Okay, there we go. She's my cherry pie isn't long enough for all this. No, no, you play a whole Warrant album. You got to do the whole thing. And then if that's, if it takes longer than that it goes right to motley crew girls girls girls and they go all the way through that one too you never have to run through the catalog of motley crew it's a lot yeah smoking in the boys room too hot for love to dr feel good all of it down all of it. Let's get down. All of it, man.

So that's where she works. Her stage name? Yeah. Bobby Joe. Okay. Very Louisiana. Exactly. I think she's trying to.

That's her. Down homes folksy. Yeah. Well, yeah, because I guess up there they're recruiting women because there's not a lot. Even in this town, it's two-thirds men. Alaska's a lot of guys. But then they can't find guys it's a very weird thing but the women there they're not like guys all the guys a lot of the people in this area are fishermen and things like that from somewhere else so they wanted girls from different places so guys could think of oh that's a girl like from where i'm from type of shit from what i understand so she's bobby joe and she is short and blonde and very pretty

she's a really cute girl she really is she's a stunner she's yeah she's she's excellent posture james great i mean stick straight posture six straight straighter than the pole yeah well that's why she likes the pole she She's attracted to it for some reason. So she caught on fast there, being a stripper. She was into that, into the dancing thing. She said she saw it as a means to an end. She said, I would go to work, and I kept my goal in mind. My goal was to make money and leave.

So she wants to come here, make a bunch of money, save it up, and get the fuck out of Alaska. That's her. Not a bad plan. No, I mean, you're a young person. Shake it while you got it. I don't know. Why not? So she works there.

Everybody said she wasn't a great dancer, but she was hot as shit. That's what everybody was like. It didn't matter. Yeah. The guys just walk back and forth. They didn't care. They didn't care if she could dance or not.

That wasn't part of it at all. Just hot. I got news for you. Anybody that's in a strip club does not give a fuck how she dances. No one's there criticizing the dance moves. No. That's the thing. As long as once in a while you show what we're trying to see, we're pretty happy.

That's a good dance move. Then she spread her legs. That's a great dance move. Yeah. Her tits were out when she did it wow amazing yeah we're really not picky when it comes to that there's not a lot of people sitting in the back like i don't know i could have done better someone can i talk can i ask you is there a manager present um who runs your choreography department because i have auditioned her a degree from Juilliard that I feel like I could use here to help these women dance. I know Paula Abdul. This is bullshit.

So she's really good at yapping to the guys, too. She's good at talking to them. She's good at her job. She's good at this shit. So she meets a particular man here and his name is kent lepink lepink l-e-p-p-i-n-k lepink okay but we don't call him kent or lepink we call him tt okay tt t. There's one T in his name. Well, that's not why.

It's not for his name. Oh. It's because of his nickname. He's got a nickname, and then his nickname is Long, so they shortened it to T.T. Oh. Okay. He's 35 years old at this time that he meets her here. They call him T.T. because he's, quote, the Tennessee taxidermist.

The Tennessee taxidermist the tennessee taxidermist baby that's right that's what they call me he sounds like a country an unsuccessful country singer i was i'm waylon marlin the tennessee taxidermist they call me that's an unsuccessful country artist if vince m Vince McMahon was naming country artists. Yeah, the Tennessee taxidermist. Oh, he comes out. He's got like a raccoon head just sitting on top of his head, and he's got pelts hanging from his body. Oh, yeah, the Tennessee taxidermist. Yeah. Why is he the Tennessee taxidermist?

Is that where he's from and what he does? He tries to stuff you at the end of it. That's what he does. Oh, stuff you at the end of it that's what he does oh yeah that's right yeah um of course he's got his parents are betsy and ken we'll talk about why he's the tennessee well he was he was going to school in tennessee for taxidermy before he came here so he told somebody that he's not a taxidermist he's certainly not from tennessee he's from michigan he spent he spent a marginal amount of time in tennessee learning taxidermy and the first person he told that they're like tennessee taxidermist tt over here everybody this is tt and he was like

huh i'm kent i guess i'm tt okay i'm kent from mich guys. This is how nicknames happen, everybody. So this is kind of, he's kind of an impulsive guy and fucks up every once in a while. Old TT here. His parents are Betsy and Ken from Michigan. Yeah. They found out that before he came to Alaska and before he went to do taxidermy, he was caught skimming money from the family business in Michigan. Oh, Kent. So this is the second week in a row we've had somebody skimming money from a family business.

This is the only time in the episode it'll come up. It's not a big deal otherwise. Don't worry. It's not a family feud or anything. So he was fired by his family after he embezzled a hundred thousand dollars good lord that's not a little bit in the 80s how do you especially in the 80s that's a shitload of money in the 80s your family had a hundred grand that you could steal from them it's a in the business it's a it's a chain of grocery stores right he embezzled the money from

it that's amazing that that it's amazing for a chain of grocery stores. Right. He embezzled the money from it. But that's amazing. Isn't it amazing for a chain of grocery stores to make $100,000? It's just awesome that that is a thing that somebody had in their life. Yeah. Well, the fact that they noticed it means it meant something to them. Right. It means they didn't have much more than that. No, no, no. But yeah, it's a chain of grocery stores they own.

So you'd imagine there's money coming in to steal. At least gross. I don't know about net, but but at least gross there's cash flying in the door so he didn't know what to do he got shit can from there so he he's a big outdoorsman so he went to tennessee to a game farm near nashville to study taxidermy wow i don't know how you decide to do that that was his fate he liked to hunt so he's like i can do my own taxidermy i don't know how he expected to i guess you could make a living doing that if you want to live in animal guts for the rest of your life did his dad maybe take him and find off uh roadkill that and they were fucking with the ladies. Is it a Dahmer situation? No. No, no, this is what he wants, taxidermy. So he attended a Safari Club International Convention in Nevada,

which is a gathering of big game hunters who frequently needed their shit mounted. So he went there to see if he could drum up some business. Now, this is crazy by the way because how does he have the money to do all this when he was embezzling a hundred thousand dollars but he has money to i'm gonna meander it on down to nashville to learn how to carve up a fucking raccoon is a weird thing to like pay for and then i'll go out there i'll stay in vegas i'll try to drum up some business how are you you getting money for this? That just feels like the family maybe.

He had the idea and they were like, sure, whatever gets him out of our hair, we'll pay for it. I guess so. That's possible maybe. They were trying to help him out or trying to get him a fresh start. Everybody says he's a nice guy. He's just kind of a fuck up sometimes. That's kind of how it works. Well, in Vegas, he meets a guy named russ williams who's a fisherman from

alaska and they strike up a little friendship here and he invites kent tt to come to alaska and work the summer of 93 as a crewman on his fishing boat great great idea nothing else going on you like the outdoors come up there and alaska has tons of hunting oh forget about it business up there too how many things drop dead up there forget about it you can stuff it all you can stuff everything up there so that's what he decides he goes you know what what the fuck it was a seagoing vessel used to ferry fish catches from netting boats into the canneries awesome it. So it was like a transfer boat here. Yeah.

So his job was to, or the boat's job, was to pick up salmon from these vessels and bring them into fresh, fresh into the canneries. So they didn't sit on the boat out there while they fished. And so the fish didn't have to come in every fucking day and drop their load off. So he says, yeah, this is great. Let's do it. And the parents said, you should do that. That's maybe it'll be a fresh start for you.

They want him to have something for his life, for his life here. And like you said, this also keeps him away from the family coffers here for a while. Yeah. And this is a fucking adventure. It is. This is an adventure and he likes the outdoors and fucking and like his family's pretty well to do i don't know if he's got a trust fund or anything like that but they have they have money um he's from near grand rapids michigan um he by

the way ken's a big guy tt he's a six foot five big son of a bitch okay so everybody says real like a big guy too like just a not a guy you'd mess with type of guy a big son of a bitch okay so everybody says real like a big guy too like just a not a guy you'd mess with type of guy a big son of a bitch a big outdoorsman son of a bitch yeah and also prematurely bald like a motherfucker too i mean i'm sorry tt he's all the way back he's not balding it's over with and he's he's 33 34 years old when it's all said and done. Yeah, he's bald-ed. It's past tense at this point. So he's known as though kind of polite and mild-mannered, though, not an aggressive guy or anything like that. Listen, bald in your 30s will certainly humble you. That'll humble you a little bit.

You will not be aggressive anymore. Well, and he wasn't humbled enough to not try to steal $100,000. Maybe he was going to buy hair. We don't know. Maybe he wanted plugs. And he's like, listen, I need a lot of them. I don't know. I'll do the first one.

I don't care. I'll do it. So he did go to college, though. He was a college-educated guy. He thought about going to medical school, but he said, eh, you know what? I like hunting more. So he didn't want to go to medical school because it would cut into all that time and um he was awkward around women everybody said

never had a lot of luck with women which when you're if you're 23 and going bald you that's that'll that'll kill your confidence that'll hurt you that'll hurt you um but he is six five he he's got that going for him so he could have worked something out. At least she's not looking down on the bald patch. That's what I mean. He should have shaved it early and then went as a giant bald guy. There's a market for that. That's a cool guy.

Well, you know, some women want the giant bald guy, maybe. So you get that. You got to have a look of some kind. You got to have something. Tiny bald guy, maybe. So you get that. You got to have a look of some kind. You got to have something. Tiny bald guy. No good. No good. So he ends up going up there for 93 for the season and ends up staying up there.

Fuck yeah. He stays up there and starts hanging out. So by October 94, he's still there. Yeah. Good for him. He's still there. By October 94, he's still there. Yeah.

Good for him. He's still there. And he had a friend of his and took him to the Alaskan Bush Company to celebrate his birthday. Come on out. Let's look at some pussy. Yeah. You know that's what he said, too. It's got to be. Yeah.

Dude, up there, they're probably. There's no law. There's no fucking law up there. They're probably having sex with grizzly bears on stage for all we know. It's like Tijuana, northern Tijuana. There's a microscope up my asshole for a dollar you can look. It's colonoscopy night at the Bush Company. Who wants to see the inside of Bobby Joe's butthole?

Let's come on in. Who wants to see three feet inside Bobby Joe? Line up. An $8 beer and have a look-see at her intestines and colon. Come on in. It's going to be amazing. Rumor has it there might be a polyp. All right.

So he's at the bar celebrating he sees michelle bobby joe but michelle come down the stairs and he told his friend here that that's the best looking woman in this place right there look at her yeah that's right he wrote in an email right after that from the moment i met michelle at the bush that's what they call it by the way the bush oh god like they're crawling out of a big fucking hairy oh that's terrible okay at the bush i fell in love with her okay so kent was hooked hooked he said that quote when she would do table dances for me, I was watching her eyes. You're doing it wrong, Kent. You're getting ripped off.

You don't have to pay for that. Eyes are free, motherfucker. You can watch her do anything with her eyes. That's fine. Wow. You are not good at this, Titi. I was watching her eyes. Sure, it's hard not to see the naked body in front of you, but I felt more for her than just as a sex object.

I knew that we would be married to each other almost from the beginning. How about that? Wow, he is hypnotized by a stripper's gaze. He's already in love with a stripper wow it took a table dance and looking deep in her eyes and he's like she's like man he's not even looking at my tits yet it's gonna this is wild i got him forever so i've had some pretty romantic table dances though that you you really some of them sell it james romantic. They make you think they're into it. Did they light a fucking candle first and pour you a glass of wine?

What are you talking about romantic? That purring they do is fucking magical. They make you think they're into it. It's because they're looking for VIP. Ah, romance. Ah, the romance. Yes, there you go. My point is that if you're dumb enough to not see that this is a business and you think that you can bang a stripper, granted, they're people.

They bang too. But if you think that they get them from the club, you're out of your mind. They don't want to fuck you. No. That's why you have to pay for this. They want to take your money so that they you have to pay for this they want to take your money so they can go to nice dinner with the guy that they fuck yeah and and buy meth a lot too there's that too there's that coke or whatever that's true but yeah this is not actually it would

be to pay for their meth head boyfriend's dinner more like right that would be the most likely thing i have to take him out to dinner because he's not doing real well. He's at home with the kids. Yeah, he's James Woods from Casino. You're going to get yours first, okay? You're going to get yours first. Okay, I don't know. There are all these other people.

None of that. So you're going to get yours first, okay? So he is so much about her, all about her right away. He proposes in a month. Oh, Kent. She is very talented, I must say. So good. Wow.

But he, Jesus Christ, he introduces her to his parents and doesn't tell her where they met. Just doesn't tell the parents anything about that um but the mom betsy said she would kind of pull back a bit physically when he put his arm around her oh it's hard for a mother to be this honest but it didn't seem like she loved him like he did her oh so which is yeah obviously not that not. That's what they do. This is not a situation. Well, they're just not a match like that. Like, he's really stretching too far, man. You're going to rip your taint stretching this far. He's doing a full split, and he hasn't warmed up.

You know what I mean? This is out of your league, homie. Oh, God. It's so frustrating. When you get one that's much better than you, you really want to. You made it sound like a fish. Boy, when she's flopping around on the line, boy, you're like, oh, this is too much. I put 16 tests on there now.

I need at least 30 for her. No matter which side is better looking or better as what we feel is better of a specimen. Yeah, whatever society whatever society is better. Yeah. Right. Whichever one male or the female or whichever side of the relationship is the other person tends to fucking smother because you want to ultra love them so that they don't fucking leave.

Cause when am I going to fuck somebody that looks like you again? Yeah, that's, they fucking, it doesn't matter. They're together there. He buys her a big diamond ring. And he wants to, though, he said and he says it's him, but we don't know.

They're not going to have sex till after marriage. They're going to they're going to. Yeah, they're really going gonna keep it tight and not um no they're gonna not have sex till after marriage because a guy gave you a 20 and saw your pussy last night listen listen this is a wholesome girl and she's not gonna hussy herself up at all and that's fine and uh he respects her too much to do this so he said it's going to be magical once we get married that's how it's going to be so um yeah they they uh they talk about their lives together they're talking about having kids and everything she michelle buys a 64 000 house

in wasilla which is about 55 it's about 55 miles north of anchorage here now they move in together tt moves into this house with her he goes away on his fishing trips all the neighbors said men would be coming and going like she had painting work being done or something like work crews in and out constantly like she had a door men all the time are over and then he'd come home and they would be, oh, we're such an idyllic little couple and everything's fine. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend

had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one

and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts um it's it's it's interesting one of the neighbors is a friend of ttT.'s, a guy named Tom Namsvet, and he said that he didn't think it was his place to say anything to T.T. about it.

That is your bro. That's your place. Well, you know what, though? You don't know because what if— Be a pal, buddy. Yeah, well, then what if she denies it then, and then this guy's mad at you now. You're talking shit about my fucking fiancé, and then he's some 6'5 fisherman who wants to kick the shit out of you now you're you know what mind your own fucking business enjoy guys enjoy unless it's your best friend yeah who cares not my problem

sorry fuck that i'm not getting involved in this giant guy and his stripper girlfriend. That's none of my fucking business. Okay. You kidding me? Like, honestly, look at it from that point of view. Like, I don't know what the hell they do. Who knows? Maybe they have an arrangement.

You don't know. You're going to bring that up. That's the other point. You don't know what business. You call my girlfriend a whore, I know who comes over. That was Frank, Bill, Ted. They were scheduled to come banger. Jesus Christ, I'm out of town.

What do you want? We're waiting until we're married. She has needs. She has needs that need to be taken care of. Now, they are forced out of the home on Thanksgiving Day 1995 when a giant dry rot problem is discovered. Basically, the home is falling apart before their eyes. Shit. So they need huge major repairs, and they're really, you know, it's tough.

So they move into the home of a friend of hers who's offered them, generously offered them to come live with them for a time while the house is being repaired. It's going to take months to repair. So this is a big ask. Um, and the person that she meets and that they're going to go live with is a guy named John T. Carlin, the third. Oh boy.

He's another guy who she met at the strip club. Yeah, of course he is. So, um, yeah, that's, that's like,

they're like, what the fuck is going on here um the other thing is i guess there was some shit that went missing from the home while they were gone uh there was a computer antique rugs um cabinets the people just like looted the place i don't know what the hell happened oh because of the dry rot thing so there's things being taken off i imagine the cabinets were probably sitting somewhere somewhere yeah somebody picked him up he's very upset they were new cabinets i guess that he had bought so he was like fuck they they destroyed the cab just got delivered and didn't get fucking installed yet yep and as over emails

too she goes to new orleans to see her family and they argue over emails. She says she needs $2,500 about for a wedding dress. And he says, I don't have $2,500 for a wedding dress. So they argue back and forth. And then he actually apologizes saying, I'm sorry if I misled you by giving you the impression that I had money. But I don't. I don't have a lot of money. I gave it all to you in your thong. Yeah, I bought you cabinets and a ring and your tits that I put in your shit all the time,

your thong, until you took it off and then it was on the floor. But you know what I mean. Then it's in your purse. You get it. Yeah. Now, John T. Carlin III here, Carlin, his wife recently died from cancer. Oh, no. He's kind of a sad guy.

He's a pudgy, bald, sad guy he's what he is i'll be very honest with you here so uh he's got a teenage son as well that he's raising by himself now yeah and he recently moved to alaska to start over because his wife you know his wife died it's hard he was a steel worker and he uh he had won a 1..2 million judgment in a lead poisoning lawsuit against his former employer. Awesome. I mean, yeah, he's got lead poisoning. But other than that, he's got $1.2 million and he's going to Alaska with his son for a fresh start. Fantastic.

Which seems great. Yeah, that seems fantastic. His son says he was a real quiet, private person who didn't like to tell anybody about his personal information or anything like that. Very private. So private, he allows the dancer and her fiancé to move into his house. It's very private. Keeps to himself. Super private.

Very keeps to himself. Wouldn't say shit if he had a mouthful. You know what I mean? if he had a mouthful you know what i mean so he uh he he wanders in he finds himself in the alaskan bush company in the summer of 95 okay so this is you know six eight months into the relationship been there two years tt's been here a while he's been in alaska for two years yeah so he ends up falling for michelle right away when he meets her and didn't know she was engaged here. And he said, quote, I was in love with her. So I said, what the heck?

He said he was in too deep to care by the time he found out that she had a fiance and all that kind of shit. Okay. Which is incredible to me to go. Oh, well, I mean, I just like her so much. What are you nuts? You fucking idiot no no dipshit i mean she's so pretty yeah she's so much she's got a fiance she's so pretty it's like just so weird that no other guy would try to marry her by now oh that's right never mind

jesus christ so she he's doing that he gives her an eleven thousand dollar diamond ring what a big ring a thirty two hundred dollar fur coat he gives her yeah he's showering her with expensive gifts very expensive gifts here um takes her on a multi-week long trip to amsterdam they go on a european vacation he's got 1.2 million dollars not him how how do you explain that to your fiancee well what does she say she's got a way about her don't know what it is. As soon as they start arguing, she just presses play. She just presses play on She's My Cherry Pie.

That's it. They just immediately dicks get hard out of sense memory. Like Pavlov's dog. They're just like, I heard cherry pie. There's going to be a butt grinding on my dick soon so weeks long trip in august of 95 they go to amsterdam it's a european vacation other cities as well yeah this is great we'll talk about it she not only there's so much that that we don't know yet okay so he said that he was planning on taking the

trip he bought it for his late wife they like a year before it was the trip they all planned it out a year before but he didn't want to waste the trip so he's like you come with me this is pre 9-11 when you could just go you know yeah anybody's plane ticket nobody cared um during the trip they had sex at least once yeah which is not a lot for a european vacation wow yeah that's a the base of the eiffel tower though it was amazing i'm sure it was wonderful the base was right at the tip somehow on top of big ben that's it right there so at least once and michelle like we said is uh you know he knows obviously carlin that she's engaged and shit because they live in her in his fucking house so it's hard to

not know her situation he's ate your food yeah well wait till you hear he cooks his dinner for christ's sake so she also learned to shoot a guns at his gun club, particularly the.44 Magnum that he had that she liked a lot. Oh, that's a lot of gun. That's a lot of gun for a little lady. Jesus Christ, Dr. Larry. She liked it. No shit.

So now, talk about their living arrangements for a minute because that's obviously strange. Yeah, there's a child in the house too. Yeah, the people around too, the neighbors are like, they didn't, they were like, oh, they must be a bunch of friends, like, sharing the living expenses together. Because there's, you know, T.T. and John Carlin.

I want to call him George Carlin every time. Yeah. John Carlin and Michelle and then Carlin's teenage son lives there. So they're like, oh, is it a couple? Who knows, right? But they would also you know everybody in the neighborhood would hang out they play cards at night uh they said all the adults drank beer together and you know hung out like that um you know they're normal stuff like like they were

like a weird family almost yeah like they would lend each other money and stuff like it was very very strange. This is all happy until so that nobody finds out that I'm trying to bang her. Well, not sort of, but it still can be happy, Jimmy. It still can be happy. We can all get along. Yeah, I guess. She's so amazing.

It really doesn't matter. That's how these guys are looking at it. These are, wow. She, by the way, everyone said Michelle is the queen of the castle there is no undisputed um they would watch tt and john compete for her compete for her affections and try to show off in front of her it's just like a bunch of teenagers these are men in their late 30s this is ridiculous loves it she fucking loves it. They buy her gifts and all that. She would continue to dance for a while. She continues to dance.

They said she brought home, she had a Crown Royal bag that she carried her cash in, the velvet sack. Yeah. So she'd bring home sometimes multiple Crown Royal bags full of cash. Multiple. She made a fortune, and she'd pour it all out of the dining room table and be like, ha ha, look at that. T.T. was like the housekeeper. He ran errands. He ironed everybody's clothes.

Oh, no. This is crazy. Well, good. You know what? Take my fiance to Europe and fuck her. I'll have all your laundry ironed and folded by the time you get back. Don't worry about it. What's happening?

Oh, my God. This is is great it gets crazier um now john he said carlin he said that um or i'm sorry the son john carlin's son who by the way is john carlin the fourth obviously he said that everybody depended on tt like he was like the house mom like everyone depended on him where's my pants 65 bald guy have you seen my pants and he's like oh jesus i didn't get to them yet and he starts ironing he's hulk hogan when he was in that movie where he was the commando oh suburban commando yeah suburban commando that's what he was. Take care of the house. No, you're mixing up Mr. Nanny and Suburban Commando. Mr. Nanny. What is that?

That's where he was a nanny, and he had to take care of the kids. But Suburban Commando was a different one. He didn't have to take care of the house. Wasn't he taking care of things in the house, too? No, he was there to kill people and blow shit up. Oh, okay. So there's two movies you're mixing up, but they're both great movies, by the way. Top notch. I'm going to, by the way. Top notch.

I'm going to watch them both tonight. Top notch films. You really should. I recommend them and No Holds Barred. Go for the Hulk Hogan trifecta because you will not be disappointed. Everyone should like. Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing.

So they said everybody depended on T.T. And T.T. would follow Michelle around all the time. Just always following her around. Hey, what are we doing? Trying to, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Now, she also was known as generous and kind.

Everybody, you know, she's banging these guys. But people, they like her. There's a reason why they're okay with this. They said she's really good with children and animals. Really sweet with animals. She didn't like TT's taxidermy pass. She didn't care for that. She thought that was pretty bad.

They said that in Carlin's house she had several dogs, a couple of birds, and a cat. She had her whole... Regular zoo around here. Yeah, she loved it. She loved it. What was her goal, Jimmy? Oh, God. I don't know how this keeps happening.

I don't know how it keeps coming up it's the strangest fucking thing in the world it's a bird isn't it she was excited about her plans to save up money she wants to go to the university of alaska and anchorage then go down to costa rica to work in an exotic bird sanctuary what the fuck is going on with the birds if you know somebody with an exotic bird be scared of that person or think why am i gonna murder this person because you might kill them who knows stay away from people with birds. Bad things are happening. It's fucking crazy, though. That is unbelievable.

More exotic birds? What? I couldn't believe my head almost exploded when I read that. I'm like, how is this happening? Last week, we had to actually not do a case that involved more exotic birds. I said, we can't put this out now. We've had all these birds. People are going to think this is like a bird-themed show.

We've got to wait until the next time we do that state to do the birds again because this is too many birds. But it was more fucking African gray parrots. It's crazy. It's the pit bull of murder. I don't get it. The murder birds, man. It's like old people with curly-haired white dogs.

Murderers love to have birds around. What is that? If I see an exotic bird, I'm just going to think there's a dead body around here somewhere. Has to be. Or it's close by. Yeah. So Michelle also, while this is all going on, is keeping up another relationship or two. She also has another fiancee michelle she's got

another fiancee named scott hilkey or hilk h-i-l-k-e we're gonna call him scott came to alaska in august of 94 to train anchorage workmen in the operation and repair of large-scale power plants oh yeah scott's got some dough, too. He was an expert in the field. He worked for Conval, manufacturers of valves for power plants, refineries, and petrochemical plants. That sounds very exciting. The George M. Sullivan Power Facility on the east side of Anchorage

was about to undergo a huge renovation. Yeah, and he was then, Hilkey was in the middle of getting a divorce from his wife in california and um he while he's in town doing this he's just in town for months recently divorced guy he'd go to the bush company every night going with his he's eating dinner he's eating dinner there you know he is he's He's having pasta. He is cutting up a prime rib while he's looking at fucking girls spreading their ass cheeks in front of him. You know he is. He's dipping that prime rib in au jus. Oh, yeah.

And staring at all the jus. Can I get more bread over here? What is it, man? What the fuck? So he met Michelle and started hanging out with her and talking to her and all that kind of thing um soon after his arrival though the sullivan maintenance the plant work was postponed so he told michelle i'll be back in a few weeks and she gave him his phone number and said well call me when you get back. So, you know, he fell in love with her,

and before long, I don't know, a month or two, he asked her to marry him, too. Yeah, stripper gave you her phone number. That's a big deal. She said, well, so that's what the exchange is, phone number for a diamond ring? Here's my phone number. Yes, I will marry you.

Yes, I'll marry you. So that's what they did, and meanwhile at home he's the same shit's going on this is what scott says about tt because he saw them together okay um he said that kent could never see that michelle was using him he was like what's wrong with this guy he said quote i think he followed her around like a puppy dog i think he was certainly willing to do anything for her that would integrate uh that would uh oh i'm sorry ingratiate i couldn't read my own writing it would ingratiate a strength in his relationship for to her no question so yeah um she said also he was she he she's always emailing everybody michelle

she's big on email so she's just this is this is 96 95 96 so she's like emailing everybody, Michelle. She's big on email. So she's just, this is 96, 95, 96. So she's like, hey, look at me. I got my AOL on. She's got all those free hour disks that she got in the mail. That's frightening, though. You're going to mix an email up, Michelle. You better be careful.

She has it all going on here. Hilkey and her got matching pink dinosaur tattoos on their ankles on your ankle i don't know why yeah that's what yeah they did um she would use his frequent flyer miles to visit him in california on the weekend she would bring her her pets with her a lot too especially her cockatoo especially her bird jimmy of course a bird bird on a plane bird's name is sybil you know like the multi-personality what the fuck yeah dude yeah is that real yeah i swear to god cockatoo named sybil run i wonder what the rest of the animals were named carrie manson carrie jesus christ this is my bird arias this is my dog warnos so they um they meet uh yeah anyway they do all of this he spends three thousand dollars on engagement ring, gives it to her on Thanksgiving of that year.

They get engaged. So one Thanksgiving, her house gets dry rotted. The next Thanksgiving, she's getting a ring. So they make plans to marry a year later. Now, Scott Hilkey, he says that John Carlin um or he says that hilkey himself he knew about the other guys they're all aware of each other we're all right this is this is like cannonball run for marriage he described them though hilkey told everybody that's more of a dancer client relationship he has she has with those guys you know where you're engaged and you live with people like a dancer client relationship where they introduce you to their parents and then you

live with them you know like that and you make plans for marriage you know dancer client relationship is i like you give me 20 for this song that's the that's it that's the relationship it's not is my laundry done yet because got to eat dinner and get to that thing. That's not. Can you get the kids from daycare? Is not a conversation in the dancer client relationship. So Christmas 95, John Carlin, he steps up to the plate. He proposes as well.

She accepts that one too. Of course she does. She's now engaged to three men at the same time two of which live in the same house with her does she have them all stacked up on the same finger or is she like can you get that one maybe for like a like an index or a maybe a thumb ring maybe or something because my my ring fingers are full right now chock full wow pretty kick-ass looking finger though with three rocks on it three rocks of varying sizes there so over an 18 month period here so she's got three fiancés which is insane um all at the same time living in the same

house um a person later on a reporter later on who'll cover this said quote they became entangled in this bizarre it wasn't even a love triangle it was like a love hexagon it's a love hexagon everybody that's what this is and that's got to be the name of this episode here a bizarre love hexagon holy shit so scott hilkey says this about michelle quote i think she outsmarts most people that she gets involved with i think she reads the situation figures out how to recreate her personality in such a way that she will profit from that he said she had she got lots of jewelry she got lots of furs. Like Sibyl? Well, also like a psychopath does.

Right. I'm not saying she's a psychopath, but that's the description. Yeah. Yeah, a description of a psychopath, like one of them is that they will change personalities to whoever they're around. They're very good at kind of putting that. Manipulating situations. Camouflaging themselves in normalcy for whatever normalcy that situation is and uh figuring out the thing that that they can use to get what they want so um she said that uh he said that her car payments were fucking paid for oh i'm sure they were house

repairs diamonds furs guys are just buying her Guys that, not even the three that she's engaged to. Just guys at the club. She'll talk to them for a while. Next thing you know, I'll pay your car or bill. Don't worry about it. Oh, boy. It's crazy. Super Bowl weekend, 1996.

Here. So this would be Cowboys Steelers. Yeah. In Phoenix, actually. Yeah, it was. At ASU. Yeah, piece of crap. I'm going to pay $4,000 to sit on a metal bench.

Sounds great. For six hours and blister my ass. For six hours of horse shit. Yeah. So during this time, Scott Hilkey's at a convention in Phoenix during this time, and he is anxious to get back to Michelle. She's in anchorage um she at this point is taking classes at the university of alaska anchorage she's quit the

bush company now okay so she got her hit her goal of money apparently and um he says that there's some emails between them while he's gone and he says oh he wishes that he could that she could have come with him but she knows he knows that she's studying and that's got to come first. Your school comes first and all that. He also said in this that she's telling him that T.T. and John Carlin have been snooping more on her out of jealousy. I guess T.T. started reading her emails. I guess T.T. started reading her emails. Then he started reading her credit card bills and phone records for, you know, for her to see who she's talking to.

I guess Carlin would he would spy on her emails as well. So everybody sees her emails. He did it so often that she got a new email address to switch it because she was like, you he know they know the passwords everybody's breaking into this one yeah her old email address or her handle here was ak me well so alaska me well i guess right i don't know yeah no i i'm trying to figure it out because i'm terrible with license plates her Her last name was Hughes. Oh, what is the well part? There you go. She's doing well.

Mewell? Mewell. Michelle? Does somebody call her Mewell? Or maybe it's just like she's doing well. Whatever it is, she changes it to latex and lace is what she changes it to. L-A-T-E-X-N-L-A-C-E. Well, if there was another one, she would have been Latex and Lace 69, but she had that handle all to herself.

She locked it down early. Sorry, everybody. That one's taken. So she told Hilkey about the new name in a message, and she said, John has my password for AK Mewell. Send email to new name Latex and lace i don't want to change password right now he almost saw last letter john is coming up now i have to go love you always we'll write later that's her email here so she's like frantically emailing and then delete and then

oh i don't know that one yeah so on march 10th of that year uh tt sends an email to scott hilkey complaining about hilkey and michelle trying to hide their relationship from him okay so he's aware he's aware oh he knows everything yeah he said you and michelle hurt me very much he said um you know he was like we're supposed to we were we're planning a wedding and is silly, and you're trying to get with her. This is messed up. So, yeah, they said this is Hilkey. He said, from the moment I first suspected that there might be something going on. Oh, this is him talking to Hilkey. From the moment I suspected that there might be something going on between you and Michelle, I should have said something.

By remaining silent, I'm as guilty as you. By being silent, bad feelings toward you developed. I keep too much inside and all the pressure's built up until the only thing that's left is resentment. He said, quote, I would have to say that I put up a pretty good false front, but on the inside, I was a bundle of mixed up emotions, desire for love, hatred, bitterness, confusion. Michelle and I have talked a lot in the past few days, and I am drawing a line and putting all of this behind me. I'm not putting this in the back of my brain so that I can pull it up whenever I want to.

I'm not ever going to bring it up again. I think a clean slate is the best way to continue. I want to be your friend. Why? What? Why? Why do you need to be this person's friend? For what reason?

The line is, I want you out of our life. I want you to go away and never see you again. I wish you didn't exist. Not I want to be your friend. I don't want any bad feelings about the past to interfere with our friendship. What? From here on out, it's a new beginning. It makes me feel good to call you my friend.

Let's get together soon or at least keep in touch by email, T.T. So that is his email. Now, wow, that's interesting. He also says at one point, T.T., in an email to Carlin, to John Carlin, that he said when Carlin came in that that was the first dark cloud that came into this relationship. Now he, uh, he said that this is wild.

TT at first said that Michelle told him that Scott Hilkey was gay and not a threat to their relationship. Oh, I'm not. He's gay. She said, what are you talking about? That old trope. Yeah. He, you know, he's gay, said what are you talking about that old trope yeah he

you know he's gay hangs out at the female strip club super gay i met where'd you meet him at my job where women are naked where he pays money to see fucking pussy in his face every night gay soup that's the gayest thing ever he just he comes in comes in all the time to confirm that he's gay that's all he wants he just needs and then when his dick gets hard, he goes, well, maybe not gay enough today. I'll be back tomorrow to try to be gayer. I don't know what else. Yeah. So Hilkey, though, had quit his job and was moving to Alaska to be with her at this time.

Oh, my God. So T.T. from the beginning was like, I didn't know if I believe the whole no sexual interest in her thing. He said at one point, quote, call me stupid. Well, but for a while, but for quite a while, I didn't see any problem. It should have hit me as strange that Michelle never woke up, but that she called Scott to see what was up. She never woke up, but that she called Scott. When she called Scott, that doesn't make any sense. At night, no, I don't either.

At night, she had to call to see what he had done that day. Okay, she had to call him. Every time she would fly out of state, she would somehow meet up with Scott and spend some time together. Hawaii, Florida, California, New Orleans, Seattle. Yes. Those are called vacations. Those are called fucking fuck hookups.

What are you talking about? Jesus Christ. No, she didn't. Wow. Now, T.T. then breaks into a third person situation here. Oh, boy. Quote, 99% of the population knows what's up by now but not tt all he knows is what michelle has told him and he loves her more than anything why would he think anything was going on

then he says quote well tt finally catches on when he finds some faxes that are left out you didn't have to read between the lines to know what they were saying scott asked michelle to marry him on november 24th 1994 10 days after i had oh my god there's no way to describe my feelings john this is an email to carlin i guess uh i guess i was mad at myself as i was at scott and michelle so what did i do i still loved michelle i couldn't leave her she meant too much to me i guess i i did only the sensible thing i slowed down the flow of money i couldn't see giving my money to michelle when i knew it was really going to scott so that he could fuck around and not work and vacation away a summer with the woman that i love and it was really fucking up my head to know the whole situation

and yet not have the balls to confront the problem. How are none of them realizing that it's not them? It's her. She's not stopping this. You got to walk, man. You got to get out. In their minds, if they confront her, she's going to go, well, fuck you. Yeah. Whereas if they just decide to be the nicest to her, then maybe she'll eventually pick them.

That's the thought here. What is this, fucking The Bachelorette? Exactly. Just fucking. That's how they're playing. I was going to say, they're playing it like it's a reality show and they're all waiting for a rose at the end. It's exactly it. It's The Bachelorette.

It's not happening, guys. It's the reference. So, yeah, that's ridiculous. That's what they're doing, though. All of them. And they're just like, well, I mean, fingers crossed. I'm going to be the one. We're so dumb.

So, oh, you think these three are dumb? No, men. We're dumb. That's what I mean. No, I just mean these three. Well, guess what? There's one more dude that we don't know about yet. Stop it.

There's another guy named Brent Riddell. R-E-D-D-E-L-L. He's another guy who wanted to bang Michelle and was successful at that. He lived in Barrow, which is way up north in Alaska, way up there. He, this is crazy, he said Michelle was his girlfriend, and he thought she was going to move up to Barrow to live with him. That was his expectation. He gave Michelle the keys to his red pickup,

invited her to, you can use this whenever you want. She needed money. She would call him in Barrow. He would send her money. Oh, boy. He said she was just always getting money from him. Now, another dancer that works with her named Tina Brady, she said, a lot of regulars buy you

gifts you know she he said that so but they said yeah but did michelle intend on marrying these guys and she said i don't think that she had any intent on marrying anyone oh boy yeah so by the end of 1995 scott hilkey kind of gives up on that's going to marry him he kind of gets the hint of she's not going to marry me but I'll bang her if I can here and there you know what I mean yeah which is a way more healthy way to go about this for him so much more yeah yeah so um they would see each other on and off he ends up leaving Alaska and everything like that. So now John Carlin said this was the golden time for their relationship. Once Scott left, he said, quote, our relationship started going into full bloom when she broke up with Scott.

Now it's only one other boyfriend besides me. Now it's a new day. Oh, I'm sorry. It's actually two, but I don't know about that other one, so that's fine. The one in Barrow, none of the guys know about him. He's a secret. They know about the three down here, but not the one in Barrow, okay? Oh, my God.

Now, back to T.T., okay? Okay. April 1996, Brian Brundon, that is his lawyer, T.T.'s lawyer. This lawyer, Brundon, said that T.T. came to see him several times in April 1996. On April 18th, T.T. revised his will to make Michelle the primary beneficiary of his estate. Up until that time, it was his parents and his will. So the next day, April 19th, he returns, T.T. does, to the lawyer's office asking about the possibility of suing North Star Hospital, which is a mental care hospital in Anchorage. T.T. said he visited the hospital because he heard that Michelle was getting counseling there and he wanted to check on her.

So the hospital staff told him that they couldn't discuss another person's treatment with him and then the hospital staff then alerted michelle that tt was making inquiries about her so this made tt mad and he thought the hospital staff violated some sort of duty of confidentiality by revealing that he'd come to the hospital asking questions about her not the way that works at all they violated my HIPAA law my HIPAA law I'm not a patient they told the patient yeah you got that completely backwards how that law told the patient that I was trying to get them to violate HIPAA for that I was trying to violate HIPAA. Therefore, they're violating the fuck out of HIPAA. You know what I'm saying? Right?

Right, lawyer? The lawyer was like, hold on, my head hurts. Wait, back up for a second. Hold on. Sorry, I was reading something for a minute and my head is just not in the right. You didn't just say what I thought you said. So during the same visit,

also T.T. tells his lawyer that Michelle was having an affair with Carlin, who lived in the same household with them. That is fucking crazy. So he refers to Michelle as his fiance the whole time during this visit. And the lawyer said it didn't seem like a great relationship to me. She was living with a guy she was fucking behind his back or in front of his face, which is even more whatever. So the lawyer said, I don't know if you should be just, you know, legal advice here. Maybe you shouldn't marry a girl who's fucking someone else you're living with.

Just a thought. I mean, you know, not to be judgy or anything like that. Yeah. Sometimes you need somebody that just hears the information and goes, what? Well, the problem is everybody he knows is engaged to her also. So who's going to tell him that? That's the problem. Everyone he knows is engaged to her.

He's got three friends who are all engaged to her. Maybe you should talk to the teenage son. Maybe. Maybe he'll have some sort of view. He'll come in here. I don't know if he's the voice of reason or not, but we'll talk about him. So a week later, April 26th, T.T. returns to the lawyer's office and now he's angry. He tells the lawyer that Michelle left and he didn't know where she was and that his expensive computer was missing and some rugs and a bronze statue.

And it's worth at least four thousand dollars. And she took all this shit. So he told his lawyer that he just removed her as the beneficiary that he put her on as a week before this. Now it's off of his life insurance policy. She was the beneficiary of his life insurance policy. He just took her off of that, and now he wants to remove her as the beneficiary of his will

that he made eight days earlier. Okay. So the lawyer says, okay, tear up the April 18th will in my presence here that will reactivate the earlier will that made your parents the beneficiaries of your estate. So there you go. Okay. Now lippick uh limpic the mom tt's mom she receives a phone call from tt toward the end of april um he told her that he was calling from girdwood wherever the fuck that is and that he was on his way to hope alaska okay through girdwood here and he said mom this is what he said, quote, Mom, you know that often I can't find Michelle. She's missing again, and I want to find her.

I need to find her, and I have learned that she's in Hope. So he's driving from Alaska to Hope, two hours to try to find her. From Missoula. No, from Anchorage, where they were staying. Yeah, they were staying in Anchorage at Carlin's house in South Anchorage. So she tries to talk him out of it, Betsy. She said, quote, Kent, have you ever been in Hope? It's just a little village.

There's nothing else there. Where would she be in Hope? Like, what, at the general store, just hanging out by the counter? Where the hell is she going to be? She's using the only shitter in town. I'll find her. She's in the pay shitter. Don't worry about it.

going to be she's using the only shitter in town i'll find her she's in the pay shitter don't worry about it she he well he she might be because tt said that michelle was quote in a cabin and he said and his mother was like listen don't go and he said quote well i have reason to believe that's where she is and that's where i'm going so that's it i'm a 35 year old man going there sorry later in the same conversation he mentioned that he received his first wedding gift, which was a million dollar life insurance policy on his life that his grandfather bought for him. Oh, that was nice as a wedding. Yeah. And the mother said she was shocked by that news. The mother said, quote, What are you saying? And he repeated it. And she said, Kent, that's sick. That's absolutely sick. I've never heard of such a thing in all my life. And now you're going to Hope, but she can't be in Hope.

There's nothing there but a little fishing village. And she said she was afraid for him. And she said, don't go. Don't go alone. Just get out of there. She's like, now you have a life insurance policy. And you're going in the middle of nowhere. And I don't like any of this shit.

So that was the weekend of the 27th, 28th after he took her off of his will. Okay. She spoke to her son again, spoke to T.T. again after he got back from Hope into Anchorage. She asked him did you find Michelle? And he told her that he didn't, obviously. But then he said, quote, John Carlin knows where she goes and he won't

tell me. This is bad. So April 30th here, he calls, T.T. calls his big brother, or his brother, not big brother, his brother Craig in Michigan, and they talked for about an hour and a half, and T.T. said that he couldn't find Michelle. He told his brother he hadn't seen her in a week, and he didn't know where she was, and told his brother that she took my laptop, she took my statue, all that kind of shit.

So the brother told him that there were other fish in the ocean, man. That's what he said. Yeah. What are you doing? You're a fisherman. You know these things. You get it. You get it.

Put your pole in and troll a little. So he said that, according to his brother, he said that T.T. was very adamant about not wanting any other women. He told his brother, no, I really love Michelle. I really love this lady. Damn it. His brother said that he was goofy about her and was like a love-struck puppy. Oh. Now, letters he sends to his parents.

Okay. He sends letters to his parents okay he sends letters to his parents um first of all he's telling his parents to get ready for a wedding on a trip to anchorage in the spring of 1996 that his parents made his dad said that he was expecting to see his future daughter-in-law again and see her again but uh by the time he got there michelle was missing gone tt was very embarrassed um so the parents said they went back to michigan you know without seeing her without seeing her she was gone who knows where she is this weekend i can't help it might be in barrow she could be anywhere yeah who the hell knows where she is jesus she could be in am. So, Kent, the day they leave, Kent

mails his parents a letter to catch up with them in Michigan here. When they got the letter, they called him, but they weren't able to reach him. Actually, his mom says, quote, actually it was a letter inside a letter. The first letter asked us not to read the second letter

unless something happened to him. It said this, quote, please put the enclosed envelope in your safe deposit box. Do not open it. I talked to you about insurance policies. This is mine. If I didn't insurance policies is in quotes. Yeah, this is mine. If I didn't think that things could get a little rough up here, I wouldn't have sent

this to you, but it'll be safer there. It's not funny to talk about getting killed but in today's world you have to expect anything and if you think anything fishy has happened to me then you can open up the other envelope that i've sent what that's what he said here's a letter that just explains not to open up that other letter unless something happens to me and it's not funny to talk about getting killed, but today we should probably talk about it. Really?

Anything can happen these days. These days. That shouldn't be a thing. So May 2, 1996, okay, there's an electric company, guys, trying to fix power lines. There's some electrical, you know, a break in the system somewhere. They're trying to find where the problem is. There's an outage.

So they don't find any damage. They go to a 17-mile road that goes to Hope, which is a small, obviously, town that we've talked about here. When they reach mile 11, just before 10.30 a.m., they pull the truck into a turnoff. They go up a rocky incline this is you know it's out there there's two electric meters at an old communication site and that'll tell them if there was trouble in the in the grid broken lines or damaged equipment

is it the grid is it the lines is it equipment what are we talking about here meters on or not right yeah so the job this guy's job is to keep the power on for the entire northern part of the county. So that's what he's trying to do here. So he looks at all the overhead lines and clears some shit beneath them, some brush and everything like that. Everything looked fine,

but he saw on the power line trail a bright patch of red down there. He's like, what the fuck is this now? Is there something caught on the line or something so he said probably like maybe gear or repair crew dropped off their truck because it's so rocky something like that something of red so he's like god damn it so um he said that if he doesn't pick it up he's in the middle of nowhere no one's picking it up so i'm the only one out here so he goes down heads down the path and path, and he's all the way down the path. He could see that it was a red jacket.

So he's like, oh, it looks like a red jacket or some kind of clothes or something. And he sees it's on a man lying on the ground. So he's like, god damn it, Jesus Christ. Well, he thought it was like hikers come up here sometimes, and it's a nice day. He thought maybe they were napping in the sun. But he said, hello, and nobody answered. Again, he's yelling, hello, hello, hello. No movement, no answer.

So he takes a few steps closer, and he sees, oh, this guy's on his back, and his mouth's wide open. And he has a giant hole in his face. Oh, boy. And it's all smashed in, and there's blood all over him. And he is extremely dead. Like, super dead. He'd been shot, as we'll find out, close range three times.

Oh, my. Back, abdomen, and cheek. Mm. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave

Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Okay, so it's got a chest wound, huge hole in the face, a line of dried blood coming from the left ear. They find a wallet and checkbook protruding from his right pants pocket. Okay. So they pull it out, and the cops get there. They pull it out.

They check his driver's license, and they find out it is Kent Lepink. That's who's out there. It's Kent. And the license says he lives in South Anchorage at John Carlin's house. He's got checks. On his checks, by the way, are both of their names. It's Kent and Michelle. Really?

He put her on the account. Put her on the account with a different address, though, with the checkbook, which is her house in Wasilla. So they said that, by the way, pure chance that they were in the woods to find him. This guy hasn't been here for two, three months. So is he an electric worker or somebody hiking or hunting. Absolutely. Something like that shit. So it's wild, man.

So he, like we said, he'd been shot three times. The sergeant that gets there, it's 1.45 p.m. He does a whole inspection of the scene. He's got a huge background in firearms and knows bullet casings. He's very good with that sort of shit. He finds three empty.44 caliber casings on the ground. Boy, oh, boy. That is a lot.

Now, number one, they're scattered, which is in a way where he's like, it's a.44, but it's coming from a semi-automatic. Because why else would there be three shells on the ground? Who's going to shoot someone three times and empty the shells out of the revolver? That doesn't make sense. He said, so this is 99% sure this is a Desert Eagle that we're looking for, because there's not a lot of other semi-automatics that fire.44 rounds out. So that's what they're looking for. They're like, this person was shot

with a 44 desert eagle which is a cannon of a gun that's a lot so um yeah that's that's how they they figure out um they say also that the scattered shells show them that the killer didn't stop to pick up the shells leaving evidence behind um they said that they were either inexperienced with firearms, didn't give a shit, or were in a huge hurry. And the fact that they're in the middle of nowhere, they probably weren't in a huge hurry. So they're probably going, didn't know any better is probably what they're thinking.

So about 4.30, they load him up into a bag and they take him out. And they said he was in full rigor by then, so he had been there for a while, well before the power company guys found them. And they're trying to figure it out. They can't figure out a time of death. They said anywhere between six and 48 hours

before we found him. Jeez, yes, that's a window. Which is a huge window for an investigation because you've got to put a timeline together. That's tough. So when they get to the medical examiner's lab in Anchorage, his remains were x-rayed while he was still in the bag. And,

um, they were looking for shit like that. The bags unzipped, they searched for bullets, metal fragments, anything like that, uh, that they could find.

They know that there is a red shirt and a large blood stain on the back. Also that the second bullet hit him in the stomach and that there was very little blood on the front of his t-shirt or the outer clothing the blood stains indicate that he'd been shot first in the back after the impact he spun around and fell backward never rolling onto his stomach and then he was shot twice more stomach and then face so they said virtually all the bleeding occurred while he was lying on his back. Probably dead before he hit the fucking ground. Possibly, possibly, yep.

But they needed to shoot him even more. So that's crazy. So they check his car as well. They find his car, and in his car, they find one of Scott Hilkey's business cards and a reservation card in hilkey's name at a hotel in mississippi huh which is strange now um there's an also an inch he tt tracks where michelle's going is the prize the thing that's why we know this because one time michelle and hilkey were in a hotel in louisiana there some bed and breakfast, some, you know, some fuck spot they hooked up.

While they were there, they were still asleep. Kent burst into the room not to threaten them to serve breakfast in bed. What? Yeah. T.T. came into the room. They didn't even they thought he was in Alaska. He flew to Louisiana, got them breakfast, came into the room. They didn't even they thought he was in Alaska. He flew to Louisiana. Got them breakfast busted into the room and was like breakfast in bed for you guys.

I brought crepes. And they said it was really not like a, you know, friendly like, hey, everybody. It was definitely like I found you motherfuckers. Yeah. Yeah. They thought it was really weird. But rather than tell Kent to go away and you're being a dick, they figured, well, while he's here, Michelle had driven her Volvo all the way here. So she asked she asked Kent, hey, while you're here, will you drive my car back to Alaska? I'm going to ride back with Scott. scott what and tt said all right you got it you got it so that's why the card was possibly in his pocket because he was tracking them to another place that is fucking crazy does anybody work

for christ's none of these people work none of these people work they're just throwing money around i have time to fly to lou to Louisiana and drive from there to Alaska? Oh, my God. That is crazy. He stopped to visit his family in Michigan on the drive back, and Michelle and Hilkey took a different route across the country to the Alaska Highway and to Anchorage. They didn't tell Kent which way they went and used assumed names at overnight stops to keep him from tracking but he's looking at their credit card information so that's how he knows it doesn't matter what name it is now tt's friends so they tell find out that he got shot people that he knows and they're like jesus

christ one of his friends said quote only a loony would shoot this guy this is buzz williams his friend buzz he said that you would have to shoot him between the eyes because he was just as likely to take the gun away from you. He was as strong as a horse and as big as a door. I've never heard someone be described as as big as a door. Have you? Never. Never. Wow.

He's as big as a door. Strong as a horse and big as a door. He was about 6'5 and could reach up and touch our 9-foot ceilings. But he had a mild manner and not a mean streak in his body. I'm calling everybody that from now on. He's as big as a door. Just pick a random thing. Wow, look at him.

He's big like a dumpster. Wow. Just pick anything. He's as big as a truck bed. That's so stupid. Now the parents find out that Kent's dead. you find out tt's dead so they're gonna open the second letter yeah they have the second letter uh they said they didn't want to open the second letter but they he told them to do it so they're gonna honor his wishes yeah why

not riddle me this bitch so betsy said it's the most painful thing that ever happened to us the first thing we did was open the second letter. It was really terrible. And the instructions, obviously, we told you what they were. And the letter says this inside. Since you're reading this, you assume that I'm dead. Which sounds like he's going to say, I'm not really dead. I'm hiding.

You know what I mean? You assume that I'm dead. But you assume that i'm dead but you assume wrong in actuality i have fooled everyone follow this path of clues and you will find me i am indeed magic wow it was my time and there's nothing that can change that. Oh, my God. Wow, this is morbid. There are a few things I'd like you to do for me, though. I hate to be vindictive in my death, but paybacks are hell. I like where this is going.

I need you to exact vengeance for me. Yeah. TT might be more Italian than I gave him credit for. Use the information enclosed to take Michelle down. And then down is all capital letters. Use this information to take her down. Make sure she is prosecuted. Okay.

There's a colon. And then we go into like bullet points. Fraud. She took me for a lot of money on the impression we were getting married. This may be hard to prove without me present, but give a shot it's a class b felony in alaska fifteen thousand dollars can be proved because you sent it to us so that's where he's getting money his parents sent him fifteen thousand dollars insurance fraud have the irs audit her turn her in and said that he said that michelle fraudulently used john's credit used John's medical insurance and was probably not reporting

her dancing income to the IRS. He listed Michelle's social security number and her mother's address to aid the investigation. He also accuses John Carlin, Michelle and Scott Hilkey of his murder in this. He says

make sure they get burned. Make sure Michelle goes to jail for a long time but visit her there tell her how much i really do love her and tell her you love her too and please help her what what the fuck are you talking about that is unreal make he make sure they get burned make sure michelle goes to jail for a long time, but visit her there. I thought he was going to say to mock her and like, you know. Watch her looks fade and tell her now nobody wants her and do that. No.

Remind her. Tell her how much I really did and then in parentheses do love her. Tell her you love her and help her. Yeah, right. This is sick, dude. He's so far in. He really can't let go. No.

Even in death. Good God. Imagine telling that to my mother. She would have this woman. She'd be trying to cut her throat in five seconds. Never mind help her. I'll help her by helping her fucking bleed faster is what my mother would say. So he said, yeah yeah use that information he said michelle

john or scott were probably the people or persons that probably killed me do me another favor make sure michelle goes to jail for a long time so i love that by the way wow um so the investigation sparks up here and during this they um they're asked to check out the house in wasilla to see if they can come up with anybody because it's listed on his checks they the police officer was told to look in look for michelle hughes and john carlin the owner of the house in anchorage that it has his driver's license too so they go they find michelle with Carlin at her house in Wasilla. Also, Carlin's 17-year-old son is there, the fourth. So the house was being remodeled, and they were working in a storage shed in the rear, gathering items to take back to Anchorage.

They said they were looking for their own stuff, which they believed to be hidden there by T.T. They said that T.T. lived with them and that he wasn't sleeping, T.T. They said that T.T. lived with them and that he wasn't sleeping that lived with them when he wasn't sleeping on his boat or fishing in the Prince William Sound. They said sometimes he stole things and they were trying to get them back, though. So the cop takes Michelle into the house and talks to her while the other cop talks to Carlin and his son outside. Michelle said, why are you asking questions about T.T.? She said, I just came back from a vacation at Lake Tahoe with my boyfriend, Scott Hilkey. These two are just jet-setting. Fucking Tahoe.

Wow. They said that she became increasingly anxious as they asked more questions, and she said, is Kent in any trouble? Has he done something? Why are you guys here? So the cop told her that Kent had been found dead under suspicious circumstances. Yeah, three giant holes in him. That's suspicious, all right?

Huge, yeah. Those don't just pop up out of nowhere. The woman, they said that she seemed shocked and became very upset. They said she cried. She calmed down. They asked her, did he have any enemies? She said, none that I know of. They said, well, tell me what you do know, anything you can.

And she said she couldn't think of anything. She said he might have made somebody mad because he, quote, he's very sneaky and he lies a lot and he keeps people's social securities for what I don't know. What? Social security numbers, she was saying. For what I don't know. So, I mean, right away, by the way, when they're asking you about a dead person and you start saying negative things about them, that immediately. Yeah, all the reasons somebody might want to kill him. Yes. You're giving a lot away with that.

Definitely. So this guy said that he's done a lot of death notifications, but there was definitely something odd. They said she cried, but it was in a in a unconvincingly weird non-sincere way they said when the interview was completed he told the three of them to leave kent's belongings where they are and detectives would want to look them over and don't disturb them he also said other investigators would want to talk to them further when they get back to anchorage so that night scott hilkey called from california uh making sure michelle got home okay from tahoe they went their separate ways there um carlin the fourth answered john's kid and uh he

went to call before he called michelle to the phone he told hilkey that Kent was dead. He's like, hey, T.T.'s dead. That T.T. guy. Yeah, he got shot and killed. So he says the cops, by the way, no sooner than that, the cops get a hold of him and they'd like to chat with him too. And he said he was surprised that they even wanted to chat with me and that I

could be like a suspect. He said I wasn't even in Alaska at the time. What are you talking about? He'd been in Lake Tahoe until the before um because they were spending a few days together he said uh he told the cops he didn't shoot kent i didn't fucking do it he fails a polygraph when asked about it though that's not good um now the detective though this detective later on that comes in later will say that while polygraphs are sometimes helpful, they're sometimes completely wrong. So maybe that's what it is. We don't know.

They thought this one might be wrong. By the way, they never checked airline or phone records to make sure that Hilkey wasn't in town. They never checked. They just took his word for it. And then he failed a polygraph and they went, I'm sure he was still in Tahoe. He said he was gone. I'm sure it's fine. Didn't even check.

Once he fails the polygraph, that's when you start checking hotels and credit cards and phone records and shit. Yeah, I said he was in Tahoe. Emails. Who wouldn't be in Tahoe? That sounds amazing. Come on. Tahoe's great. Wow.

So Michelle had flown back the night before Kent was even found. So she'd been in town for that long. So police again talked to Michelle. They get her in Anchorage and they talk to her and she started to sob. Of course, when they told her more about the murder, she told them that Kent owned a gun because they say that he owned a gun. And she said, yes, he did. She also said, um, that there was a $1 million life insurance policy on his life. She said, so, uh, she said, uh, she told them that she paid for Kent's policy herself and named herself as the

main beneficiary. Okay. Kent had taken Michelle off the policy completely, but they don't think that she knows that at this point. They don't think that she knows that at this point they don't think that she knows that um hilkey at this point said quote he tells later on he said her intent was to be out of the state when anything bad was going to happen i think i believe now i was used as an alibi wow he finally realizes he's being used for something you dumb fuck a hundred thousand dollars later and all these fucking trips and diamonds and furs. Weird.

I thought she loved me and my dick. That's all I thought. That's it. I don't get it. Shit. When they search Kent's car, T.T.'s car thoroughly, they find a note in his car that hinted at something going on with George Carlin. In the note, it said that

John Carlin, George Carlin, damn it. It said that Carlin purchased a cabin in Hope, okay? This is the note he has. Cabin that it purchased, he had purchased a cabin in Hope and was inviting Michelle to use it in this note. So this was a note from Carlin to Michelle that Kent had in his possession. possession but there is no cabin in hope john didn't buy a cabin and hope

no one has a cabin and hope this is all a made-up thing going back and forth um it's a typed note and they think it's a they think that the cabin is a hoax to get John to go to, or to get T.T. to come to Hope so they can kill him in the woods. That's what the cop's theory is here. So Carlin writes that he fixed the roof and cleaned the fireplace in this imaginary cabin. Oh, no.

And said, quote, you guys enjoy your weekend up there, making it sound like Michelle was going with somebody up there then she says back great please don't know anyone don't let anyone know where we're at love you thanks again so yeah their theory is this is the note that got him going back and forth to hope looking for a cabin when the mother's like where could they be he didn't even know he was just driving around the woods looking for a cabin oh my god that

michelle might be in they played the uh he's looking at our emails angle and just wrote fake emails wrote fake shit this was an actual yeah i guess it was a typed out letter yeah so i think it was a printed out email strain so um then uh he went back and he's found in hope a few days so he went back and forth to Hope multiple times. Oh, my God. Because he talked to his parents when he had gotten back from Hope and went to Anchorage, and then next thing you know, he's back out in Hope again.

So they talked to Carlin. They want to have a chit-chat with him since he's involved in this. And they said, do you ever own a 44 Desert Eagle by any chance? Yeah. And they said, quote, John,.44 Desert Eagle by any chance? And they said, quote, John, what would you say if I told you that I've been told that you also had a.44 gun in your house?

And he said, I would say that's a bunch of crap, is what John says. Very wittily. So the cop says, you deny you say you deny having a.44 caliber handgun in your home? And he says, absolutely. And they said, never owned one.

And he said, nope. And they said, at any time? Nope. He said, not here in Anchorage. Then he said, I used to own a.44 back when I was a range master in New Jersey. I think it was a Smith & Wesson I had, but not since I've been here. jersey i think it was a smith and wesson i had but not since i've been here so uh also may 6th a jewelry store called carlin's house to say a chain and bracelet michelle ordered on april 28th had arrived michelle went to the store while there tried to use a 250 dollar credit that

ken had coming for a pair of earrings he had returned earlier using his credit using his credit yeah so um when michelle came in to pick up the chain and bracelet the jeweler said he heard about kent's murder and said uh she said quote yes that was a very creepy thing and then tried to use his credit he's not gonna need that yeah and they said well we can't do that because it might be tied up in an estate it doesn't belong we don't know that because it might be tied up in an estate. It doesn't belong. We don't know who it belongs to. So whoever comes in with the paperwork, they can use the credit. It's $250.

So in early June, now a month later, Carlin puts up $18,000 for the down payment on a $72,000 RV. Yeah, it's a camper thing, basically. And Michelle was supposed to pay off the balance of it, do the payments. He also, Carlin, designated her as John the Fort's official guardian if anything happens to him.

Oh, my. And one of his friends said that he set up a $200,000 trust fund for her to use in his care and provide support for him in case something happens to him. That's a good way to ensure that you will never die and trust your children with somebody else. They'll never murder you. Yeah, right. No shit.

I don't want you to die. Fuck. I don't want to be responsible for your fucking kid. But she will be responsible for distributing a $200,000 trust, which is who cares about the kid at that point is what he's thinking. So they don't really have any proof or anything. No witnesses, no murder weapon, no direct evidence, no anything.

It just lingers. They don't have anything to go on. So eventually officers are transferred out, other officers are transferred in, and the case just kind of oh my god kind of kind of floats away from them floats away from them it's so obvious it's i mean this is terrible police work up there's almost like they're like well i don't know shit i don't know they didn't say that they did it so what do we do now wow um they said that yeah the insurance policy by the

the police at the time had the insurance policy and kent's letters home but they said there was nothing they could go on even though he said hey check in all this hilkey was already living in california uh carlin and michelle were free to do whatever they want and uh they separately both left alaska a few months after the murder uh michelle leaves alaska heads first to californ then to Olympia, Washington. Huh. Okay. Now, what about Brent Reddle, the guy from Barrow there? Yeah. Yeah.

They talked to him, the detectives, because they found out about him, and they were like, let's hear from you. Fuck it. This is crazy. Just for the story, they had to hear what he had to say. So, he said that he expected Michelle to quit the Bush company, buy him a house trailer in Arizona, and move it north of Anchorage where they were going to live together. That's what he thought the plan was. We're going to live in a trailer from Arizona.

Yep. He was still supporting her after she quit working and started college. And in the months before the shooting and all that, he gave her his bank debit card and pin number so she had constant access to his bank account. She occasionally visited him in Barrow, but they only had sex once. Just enough to get him on the hook. This is her thing.

Hook him to where, ooh, I want more of that. And then never again. This is what she did with everybody. So this is her deal. She'd go to Barrow frequently and that was kind of part of she kind of used barrow to launder herself uh from kent kent didn't so if kent thought she was going one place she'd stop in barrow to kind of clear everything and then like if dogs are chasing he was like running through a river you know what i mean like that's what she would do

it's the it's the uh the airport terminal parking station for the mob when they were running from helicopters yeah yeah exactly totally yeah like joe pesci a lot of casino references coming up here so uh she did all that um i guess um when she was gone k Kent would check the airport parking lot frequently to look for her car there. So eight years go by. Oh my God. No action. What the shit is happening? Police are like,

I don't know. Shit. Okay. She's now Michelle Linehan. She has settled in Washington state. She said, quote, I went to school full time. I studied biology and psychology and got a master's in Washington State. She said, quote, I went to school full time.

I studied biology and psychology and got a master's in public administration. She meets in New Orleans in 1998 and marries a young doctor named Colin Linehan. Oh, Colin. A day after he graduates from medical school. And then a year later, they have a daughter. Oh. She is moving on. Oh, moving on.

He says, I have known this woman. And this is Colin. I have known this woman. And I catch myself like, wow, she's amazing. And our daughter just adores her, too. They have a life. Amazing liar. Amazing liar. They have a life in Olympia

that's very run-of-the-mill. In 2004, he had served in the army in Iraq as a medic there. And she ends up, she's at home with the kid and has a nice network of friends and everything like that. She becomes an intern

at the Washington State Executive Ethics Board. Ethics Board. Ethics. My Christ. The irony is fucking ripe as a three-day-old corpse at this point. It is chewy. It's so thick. Holy shit.

She volunteered at her daughter's Catholic school and worked 12-hour shifts at a crisis center counseling people impacted by suicide or suicide threats and rape victims. She is repenting. Wow. She went to St. Michael's Catholic Church and asked to become involved in its social justice programs, telling church officials she wanted to learn how she could help make a better world. Stop killing people. Maybe don't take God's children out of it. Oh, my God.

She also got into kayaking, biking, hiking, rock climbing. She loved to garden. She loved to have backyard parties for her coworkers, friends, and neighbors. She loves life, James. She once complained to the local police about a contractor stealing from her home, then told the prosecutor on the case that she didn't want to prosecute it because she forgave the thief. Oh. And the prosecutor said she's very compassionate, very understanding, and very forgiving. Yeah.

I mean, glass houses, you know what I mean? Like, fuck. Game recognize game, bitch. Like, so everything's recognized game, bitch. Also, it's a weak-ass crime. I'm better at crime than he is. Yeah, this is fucked, dude. I'll rob that guy blind. You kidding me?

I could just show him my pussy twice. He'll be buying me furs, man. I know what's up. So after eight years, everything seems fine and dandy. Like we said, everything is okay. And then somebody went to her house in olympia to her residence here um she is uh oh this is the hughes residence by the way she's hughes now that's how this is so um she's oh no wait that's she was hughes now she's

yeah duh okay that's right colin linehan yes now she's Linehan. So they go to her house and Colin is there and she's not. So the police tell him that you have an hour to find your wife and bring her to the station. You need to bring her in. And they told him we could do this. This is the quote. We could do this in a small way or a big way. this in a small way or a big way in other words we this could be real casual you could take her down or we could have 10 cops in your driveway and your neighbors are going to wonder what the fuck's going on and that means a lot to you being a you know community pillar doctor type guy we're gonna break your fucking door down yep so michelle colin and a lawyer showed up at a police station 45 minutes later 45 minutes yeah you're a good client if that lawyer's there within an hour. Not bad. Yeah. And at this point, she's like, I'm a church-going PTA mom.

I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have a young child who's about to enter elementary school. And, you know, we just bought – they bought a $400,000 office space to set up a medical day spa that was going to offer Botox, laser hair removal, facials, and massages as well. So, wow. Her husband is sitting there not knowing shit about any of this stuff. So she said, quote, they asked for clarification of certain statements I had made in the past.

I just wanted to help them as much as I could. I was shocked by it. I was really shaken up. Not bad. So this is the state trooper cold case unit that reopened this fucking thing. Because obviously the Hope police

don't know shit their ass from a fucking hole in the ground. So Michelle said, quote, I think it's normal. It's a normal profession of life that you have a job and you go to school. I think she means progression. I think they meant progression of life that you are yeah bro you have a job and you go to school i think she

means progression i think they i think they meant progression of life not profession of life i think this is either one it doesn't matter not profession no this is definitely a misquote you have a job you go to school you get married you might have a family and i i think that's where my life went she said I don't know um her husband here said he knew about her past as a stripper he said her goal was to save up money for college and it was something that I could definitely respect she has absolutely no intention or she had absolutely no intention of doing that for the rest of her life she said uh all about all her boyfriends quote I didn't really ask probing questions i mean i understood she had relationships with all three of them at one point in time

not my problem um so yeah she said the only she said all the other guys wanted to marry her but the only guy she really agreed to marry you know not without a wink wink was scott hilkey that one was the one she was really going to marry um she says that she never asked the men in her life for more than they already wanted to give. She's like, they just wanted to give me things. She said, quote, so you tell me how a 22 or 21-year-old girl can make grown men do these things. With their pussy.

That's how you can do it. I can explain it to you that simple. With your tits and pussy. That's how you can do it. I can explain it to you that simple. With your tits and pussy. That is the language that a 35-year-old guy speaks. We're bilingual, James. We speak tits and pussy. Yeah, it's a trilingual because there's two tits. So Michelle said Carlin did ask her to get married but she says no and she said she never thought of

tt as a fiance even though she was talking to him in the emails about wedding dresses and everything like that it's the first one that gave you a ring for god's sake yeah they even say they find a message to tt that says my darling kent if you still want to marry me, we should just go and do it. We should get married within the next month. We should just do it and start our life. She goes on to talk about eloping and we should just get out of here and do this. But she says, no, no, no, not at all. She said, especially Kent. She said T.T. was the worst. He'd become obsessively collecting her information, social security number, credit cards, phone bills, obsessively collecting her information, social security number, credit cards,

phone bills, reading her emails, tracking her every move. You know, like a boyfriend and fiance. It got to be a lot. Yeah, well, yeah, fiance who's fucking three other guys, I guess. Yeah. Because I guess you wouldn't do that unless you had some serious suspicions here. Right. So they asked if she was afraid of him, and she said, I think I had become afraid of him toward that time.

Yeah, yeah, sure. And then they said, did he have any reason to be afraid of you? And she said, no, not at all. She said she only pretended to be engaged to T.T. to get him off the hook with his parents because he was hiding a super big secret from them. Quote, I think T.T. was gay. Oh, my God. She's going everybody. Everybody who she's that's her way of claiming she's not in a relationship with someone. Yeah. Otherwise, they'd obviously want this right here. But, you know, yeah, I think T.T. was gay. I think he wanted to have a life that was thought to be normal. He could never tell his family he was gay now tt's mother said they wouldn't have cared for a second if he was gay

but he wasn't gay because he's super into chicks so it's specifically this one he really wants to marry her yeah um and also michelle says uh i have a hard time thinking that john did anything like that as well. Carlin, like, God forbid. She said she had nothing to do with the crime at all. Period. Colin, the husband, he chimes in and says, quote, you can call her a lying bitch. You can call her a psychopath.

You can call her a sociopath. But bottom line is, that's not who she is. Yeah. You can call her all that. She will answer to all of them. She has a T-shirt corresponding. She has those little nameplate necklace things with each different ones for a different day of the week. So one says lying bitch, one says sociopath, psychopath. You can call her all these things.

She actually comes when I call her them. Yeah. Oh, by the way, even after she moved to Olympia, married, and had a daughter, she still continued the relationship with Scott Hilkey as well. Yep. He visited Linehan in Olympia while her husband was serving in Iraq. Stop it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's terrible. fucked up that's dastard right this fucking guy is people fucking trying to trying to sew up somebody with their legs blown off from an ied in 2004 and she's like getting plowed by her old strip club buddy this is terrible he's trying to get retribution for two buildings being knocked down this is crazy well retribution for the wrong people you know what i mean yeah he doesn't know that he's a medic too he's trying to fix people up he has nothing to do with that all right that's just a way to get medical school paid for i think

it was like seriously so um the detective is linda branch flower she's the one responsible for all this she's the one who really put this investigation together and was like oh fuck this she said about michelle quote she can change herself to fit any situation and play any roles she's deadly um they she said she joined the cold case unit and immediately was like what is this shit here this murder this looks terrible um then uh she said uh we went where the evidence led us and there wasn't anything in our investigation to indicate anybody else could have done it so he failed the polygraph scott hilkey they certainly want to keep talking to him and she said branch flower said we did try to investigate if there was anything that indicated hilkey knew that the murder was going to take place and there

was nothing at all so outside of just the poly failure, there's no other evidence to corroborate what they think there. Now, they find some old computers seized in the original investigation that she found again. Many of the emails had been deleted but they were able to restore them. This was before programs that could

wipe things better than they do then. So the troopers tried to find the laptop shortly after T.T. died, but Michelle told them she sent it to her sister for repair there. Now, the records show, though, that Michelle actually sent it after the investigators inquired about it. She told them I sent it to my sister, but the postage date was after they had asked about it. I'm going to send it to my sister right after this. Now I'm going to send it the fuck away.

So they seized the laptop in Louisiana. It was examined in the investigation and reexamined in 2004 with new technology programs that get shit. They were able to extract emails they believe show that Linehan, at the time now, Michelle, was manipulating T.T. and setting him up for murder. Branch Flower said the detective, they were able to pull up emails between Kent Michelle, Michelle and Carlin, Michelle and Hilkey that described different aspects of the relationship. Scores of emails, some silly, some meaningless, but very interesting to investigators. They said, here's one between Michelle and T.T. You should not be concerned about john he's more of a brother or even a father to me she says but in the two minutes

later in an email to john she wrote you are the most important thing in my life i need you more than you will ever know daddy daddy daddy brother um yeah so then this email from michelle to carlin was before the murder and this says do you know that you can buy a citizenship in the uh seychelles i guess seychelles is the word uh for around 10 mil no matter what crimes you've committed they will not extradite it's a place on the coast of africa where that doesn't have an extradition process. You can buy citizenship. So you can murder people and go there. And as long as you stay there forever, no one can get you.

As long as you have $10 million. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, they talked about how all this type of shit. So 2005, they're like, who owned a gun like that? He says he didn't know one. Now, they get a very unlikely source here carlin the fourth talks steps up he said that his father bought the gun after seeing a classified ad in the newspaper he did have a fucking desert eagle he even dug up they dug up the old ad they dug up

the seller from the ad from a newspaper archive and they found the seller who said yeah they sold carlin this gun he said carlin jr here the fort said that uh that he saw the gun days after the murder as a matter of fact he said quote i came into the house michelle was standing in the doorway of my bathroom my father was there as well the gun was in the sink and it was soaking in sort of a chemical at the time he couldn't he said he didn't know if it was a desert eagle to the sink and it was soaking in sort of a chemical. At the time, he said he didn't know if it was a Desert Eagle to this day, but it was a big, giant gun. He said that he thinks

Carlin's son, though, he doesn't think his father was involved, but he thinks maybe Michelle was. He's not sure. He said that, in his opinion, a party yet to be discovered probably did it. Now, Michelle says she's being very cooperative. She said, I was cooperative after the murder.

I'm cooperative now. She said, I told them about Kent's life insurance policy and the note that she and Carlin wrote about the fictitious Hope and Cabin. I tried to cover my ground. Come on. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Investigators dismissed the initial cooperation as her trying to cover her bases and um yeah they said um this is branch flower the detective when they were leaving i

asked them to keep uh keep informed i asked him to keep informed of what was happening uh and linda branch flower said that i would be informed that i was going to be indicted maybe that's what michelle says so fall 2006 they do they indict michelle and carlin for the murder oh boy the two of them yep they charge them both so they um carlin who lived was in elmer's in salem county oregon working for a road construction company had to fly back to alaska after the learning of the warrant for his arrest here he moved to the pacific northwest too yeah he's over there too um michelle posted bail and was free to go back to washington but um carlin would spend he's in jail they don't they keep him without bail and they let her go back to washington so uh it's interesting michelle's sister melissa the one who she stole the driver's license to leave early on.

She says that Michelle asked her immediately after the murder to erase all the information on a laptop computer. Yeah. Wow. Soak this in bleach, could you? She knew about the murder and wouldn't do it. I'm not fucking being involved in this. She will tell the cops that she visited her sister in Utah or her sister visited her in Utah a month after the murder. And they said that it was her, Carlin and Carlin's son were driving the motor home from Alaska to Louisiana after a decision to move about the computer. They talked about everything. And she said that her sister showed no sorrow for the death of her friend. And her sister said, quote, she said it was too bad someone didn't torture him first.

Oh, fucking what is this woman's problem? That's what she told him. She told me that he got what he deserved. People didn't like him, and he hunted and stuffed animals. So he should have been tortured first. It's everyone in Alaska. So what do you want? So now she, Michelle, when confronted with this, she said, oh, I was only referring to his job as a taxidermist.

And maybe people would have been mad at him for that. But he wasn't doing that. No, exactly. He just went to check it out. Also, the sister talked about she was definitely planning an exotic bird sanctuary in Costa Rica as well. So that's a thing that she wanted to do. Wow. This is fucking interesting. So the two sisters didn't speak for years after the computer incident when she refused to wipe it. Yeah. So Michelle holds a grudge. refused to wipe it yeah so michelle holds a grudge michelle's michelle's lawyer now says quote kent lempink was an odd guy i mean a very odd guy and frankly i think the period of april 1996 i don't think he was well mentally it's just a man that's in love that's all it is you know when you're not well mentally bullet holes explode into your body it's super weird like you're not feeling good sometimes your face will just explode and bullet holes explode into your body. It's super weird.

Like, you're not feeling good. Sometimes your face will just explode in, like, a big hole in your chest. It's super weird. You better mind your back. Yeah. Wow. That's. It's a dude that's in love, man.

Come on. That is. We are idiots normally without love. Oh, my God. So her lawyer goes on to say, I mean, is gonna say hey i've been lying to you guys extensively for a year and a half about the true nature of this relationship or is it easier for him to say michelle's a bad person she's involved with kind of bad people i think that's pretty convenient for him if you meaning the note to his parents if you look at the content of these letters themselves i mean there's nothing in there to suggest he's aware of a plan to kill him.

So it's just a coincidence that five days later he's dead. Yes, I think it's a coincidence. Absolutely. And they also dismiss the emails as well, like the bullshit emails of, you know, we should go here for $10 million and there's no extradition. They said, quote, this is amazing. If you were contemplating a murder, would you have put something like that that would be so incriminatory?

I mean, that would be nuts. It's almost like they're not good at murder. It's almost like people don't commit perfect murders all the time. If you're going to commit murder, you're going to do everything perfect, is what he's saying. Jesus fucking Christ, man.

That is wild. So this is Wayne Frick is her attorney. He says she denies all responsibility in the case. It was a tragedy for him to die, but she wouldn't have to pay for some. She shouldn't have to pay for someone else's conduct. Neighbors around her where she lives with her husband are shocked, shocked. She's a here's a here's a quote. She a great gal she's one of the sweetest people i know i don't think i've ever been so shocked in my whole life yeah and then one of them said yeah she's great she is beautiful though i can see how she could be a dancer

here's another one debbie saunders a neighbor she said quote yes no i know that's ridiculous she murders people no shit yeah i believe she's a dancer yeah she is hot hot ass she said quote she's got a family she's successful in life so that tells me that she's innocent what oh all right well that's fine then oh we've our show no one's successful or with a family has ever killed anybody, right? She's a good, caring mother. She's been a good neighbor. She speaks when she walks by. She says hello when she walks by. Keeps

her yard nice. That's not a murderer. Murderers have overgrown lawns and they don't make eye contact with you when they pass. I've seen the birds. Oh, man. What happened to our system where it's innocent until proven guilty? What happened to that? God damn it.

They've got proof, you dummy. Her boss at her old job said she had called me to find out about what she could do to make a better world. She said there's no way that she did anything like this. Yeah. She is very compassionate understanding and very forgiving that's the prosecuting attorney but he says he has uh no opinion on innocence or guilt in the case because he hasn't looked this is a different one different prosecutor so the carlin trial happens his is first john's up first and um the prosecutor said Kent's death is what Michelle wants.

And John was willing to make that happen. He said when Michelle was out of town, he took Kent to Hope. And that's when the Desert Eagle comes out and ready to go. And that's when Kent initially gets it in the back, turns around, falls down, gets it in the stomach and the face. Their theory is that Carlin said, I'll take you to her. Fine. I know where she is because T.T. thought he that Carlin said, I'll take you to her. Fine. I know where she is. Cause TT thought he knew where she was.

I'll take you to her. Oh, it's up this road. And then they shot him. That's the theory. So the, uh, one of Carlin's attorneys said that,

um, you know, obviously Michelle's a manipulator. There's all these guys. She, he said, quote, she's pretty extraordinary in terms of what she can get away with, inserting herself into wills and getting money she just got she just kept them

all on the line so to speak it was quite the juggling act talking about the because they got to talk shit about her because they're being tried separately so um they said they're they it's so weird you don't in alaska law You don't have to prove who did what. They don't they say we don't know whether Carlin shot him or not or drove him or planned it or whatever. But it's all murder. We don't have the same plot. Prove who did what. We just prove that he's dead and we say they did it. They're responsible.

Yep. The prosecutor, Pat Gullifson, tells jurors this was an execution. Yep. The prosecutor, Pat Gullifson, tells jurors this was an execution. He says he's intentionally vague, he said later, as to whether Carlin pulled the trigger or just pulled the strings with Michelle firing the shots. Because under Alaska law, he can be convicted for murder either way. It doesn't matter. By the way, the prosecutor said it's a story that's going to involve passion, greed, manipulation and deception. That sounds good. That's a good trial there. So Michelle here, they just try to point the finger at Michelle.

They're talking about maybe motives. And the prosecutor said, John Carlin was in love with Michelle. He spent a great deal of money on her. He had twin motives of love and money. That's all he needed, really, probably, for a plan here. Now, they talk about the note to lure T.T. to hope. And Carlin says, I wrote the note. I know what I wrote.

I know what I wrote in the note and for what it was. And it wasn't to get T.T. out of the house. It wasn't to get T.T. down to hope. It was just to discourage T.T., he said. So now the son gets on the stand and describes seeing the pistol in the sink after he says, I never had a gun like that. He says exactly what I told you. He said, I felt like I was betraying my father. I felt like I was betraying myself, he said later on testifying.

He said that he went to visit his father in jail a few days after he testified. He said he's doing good. He just kind of gave him a nod. It was strange. We're hoping he walks out the door and onto a plane by the end of the month. I don't know about that. He's going to do four weeks? Yeah, that's all.

The defense says that the emails are ambiguous and that's enough there. TT said, I value my friendships more than I value most things. Thanks for being a friend. So they were like, they were friends. What are you talking about? They were cleaning. Kill him. Deliberation goes on for four days of jury deliberation.

Is that right? Four days before they come back with a verdict. And that verdict is guilty of first degree murder. Guilty. That was a negotiation, though. negotiation though yeah yeah they had to work that out sentencing you sir may fuck off 99 years which is the maximum for whoa no parole till 2041 oh shit yes and this is what 2005 this is in 2006 so that's 35 years no parole yeah so uh michelle on trial also for first degree murder they have some rulings beforehand number one that there's

a letter where scott says that she has like a split personality she said he says in a letter to his parents they want that not in the fucking court. Her team doesn't want her being said saying she has a split personality. Like you're seeing her all nice and kind here, but then as you turn your back, she'll turn into a monster. They don't want that kind of shit. They also wonder, the prosecution says we should be able to call her an exotic dancer and the defense says you shouldn't. You shouldn't have to be able to bring that up. And the prosecution's like, we have to,

because that's where she met all these fucking people. So how the hell would we talk about how they even got in a relationship? That's a big part of it. So, yeah, the prosecutor promised the trial judge the state would not attempt to use or attempt to attribute to Michelle any kind of label or any kind of character simply because she was an exotic dancer.

We'll say she danced, but we ain't going to call her a who or nothing. You know what I mean? So the defense said that's going to be prejudicial. And they said, well, tough shit. That's the way it's going to be. opening here um she she said um that i i didn't feel like i had to put on a show for them is what she'll say later on about during the trial my job was to let the state present their evidence i i know i didn't mastermind this slaying is what she said which is really weird thing to say um so but the prosecution said if it wasn't for her k Kent would be alive. All she needed was someone to do the dirty work, someone to pull the trigger. Yeah. So the defense attorney say that Michelle's past will get in the

way of a jury seeing the way she is today. The real Michelle, the well-educated wife of a doctor, a home and business owner, no longer a stripper that was so good at getting men to do her shit for her. And the prosecutor said i don't give a fuck what she's doing now that doesn't matter i don't care if she's mother theresa she fucking killed a guy what are you talking about fact is while when this man died that was what she had just stopped doing that's it the prosecutor said underlying the whole defense is that she's a changed woman that doesn't mean that we forget about a murder that she was involved in and instrumental in committing 11 years ago. Right.

An old friend of hers named Laurie Aspiotis, a fellow dancer, she pops up and says, yeah, I have a diary about everything I used to do and all the movies I would watch. And her favorite movie from this time was a movie from 1994 called The Last Seduction, starring Linda Fiorentino, where Fiorentino plays a femme fatale who persuades her lover to kill her husband for money.

So the story is about a woman who's married to a doctor. What? Talked him into doing an illegal drug deal, selling pharmaceutical cocaine and got $700,000. And while he was in the shower, she stole the money, took off, went to a small town where a young man that lived,

uh, where a young man lived that she meets at a bar and she, you know, she ends up getting him to, uh, talks him into murdering her husband for the insurance money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So she said this friend said that that was Michelle's favorite movie.

Yeah. And said that the protagonist, the Linda Fiorentino character, was her heroine and she wanted to be just like her. Good Lord. So that's what this friend says here which is fucking amazing that's that's pretty wild you got the idea from a bad b movie a bad movie it didn't look very good i gotta say the prosecution wants the jury to watch the movie movie day it's movie day but they said you can't watch the fucking movie we described the plot it was talked about thoroughly that's enough anything in the movie is just going to make you think that it's way worse so the trial judge said yes there are some similarities between the theme of the movie and the theme of manipulation but

there's too many differences between the facts to like say this is an analogous thing here we gotta come on you can put it out there but you can't make it like that like we're all gonna watch the fucking thing now so carlin's son again testifies in her case talks about his father and michelle washing a gun um the defense points out before the grand jury though that his testimony for the grand jury when that's unsealed carlin's son twice told police his father was alone when washing the gun back then now michelle's in there as well he said i can remember smelling bleach or similar chemical. I remember

seeing Miss Hughes standing in the doorway and my father in the bathroom with a firearm in the sink in the clear liquid. That's what he testifies this time. So they said the look on his face was communicating to you what? And he said, um, I don't ask questions. Don't know. There's a gun in the room. I'm not asking a goddamn thing. I don't ask questions. Don't know.

There's a gun in the room. I'm not asking a goddamn thing. I don't know shit. Why would you soak a gun in liquid? This feels weird. Now, Michelle said she felt bad. She said she felt bad that young John Carlin had to testify. She said, I just felt heartbroken for him.

I think he's afraid of hurting me. He saw what happened to his dad, and I think that put him in a really bad position. So, yeah, the testimony goes on for a month. They talk about the policies and all that kind of shit. Michelle had made a call to the insurance company days before T.T. died and they said she

had attempted to cancel the policy. So now the prosecution said, no, no, we think the call was to check on the insurance to make sure it still existed not to cancel so yeah because they had a record of her calling there so um they talked about her lack of sincerity at the notification they get colin on the stand the husband at this poor bastard j Jesus Christ. This is crazy. Colin says it's horrible.

Nerve shattering, anxiety provoking nightmare. You know, their son is dead. You can't take that back. I have nothing but sympathy for that. Meaning the family. It kills me that their hearts in their hearts. They think Michelle had anything to do with that because I know from the bottom of my heart and soul that she did not. She did not.

In the closings, the prosecutor said this person manipulated the circumstances with her guile and deception. If she's the one who's going to write the emails, if she's the one who's going to write the ending to this, it's going to be just like the movie, isn't it? The problem is you're going to write, you're going to write the ending, the jury. She isn't. So the defense says the movie. Give me a break. I mean, that is desperation. Conjecture, speculation, suspicion, innuendo.

That's the package the state has presented here. Two days of deliberation. And she said that it was hard in court because they interviewed her because she's out. She said, my attorney always told me to be stoic in court, even during the trial. Just be stoic. So I'd sit there and try to be stoic, which I laugh at now because that got twisted into cold, manipulative bitch. Look at her. No, I was being stoic. That was my stoic look. be told that you are the devil woman from the beginning people told me i'm too thin skinned you need to toughen up let it roll off your back like water you're a duck i thought i wanted to be like that for it not to bother me but it always does yeah yeah so i was a model i know all the faces i know the shit she is found guilty of first degree murder as well and in the sentencing here she said quote i have no criminal history.

I'm not a violent person. It hurt me that the family would think I did it. I just want to go home. I'm sorry. I want to go home. This is after her whole bullshit. She said, Your Honor, I'd like to introduce myself to you. I sat here in your courtroom and never had the chance to tell you about myself.

I'm not the monster that's been painted by the prosecution. I'm a business owner. I fucking my kids. She talks about cooking. She talks about fucking making pizzas with her kids and shit. Like, that's great. The judge said, yes, I do note that you have lived a good life for the last 10 years and you have a loving daughter and family and husband and people that count on you and all this type of thing. But the reason you were able to live that life is because you were getting away with murder constantly.

So he said that. But Kent had no such chance since he was deprived of those years. You, ma'am, may fuck off 99 years in jail no chance of parole until she's 68 years old 99 to life right is that what that is it's 99 max so it's a 35 years till parole holy so yeah his attorney her attorney said it's a blow it's a huge blow kind of rocks my world to tell you the truth and uh the detective branch attorney said it's a blow. It's a huge blow. Kind of rocks my world, to tell you the truth. And the detective, Branch Flower, said, it amazes me that people actually think that she's able to pull off,

to continue to pull this off with folks. That's not me stopping. That's her stopping. They said, this is crazy. Scott Hilkey said that, I think she's inherently evil. Yeah, I think so too scott i believe uh to this day that i was a mark from the get-go i'm the lucky one i wasn't involved in any crimes and i'm not dead that's he's right and she used him as a cover when she did do bad shit that's crazy

that's fucking crazy uh they talked to colin saying now he's a single dad and this is terrible. We have to get her out. Now, there's a question, though. During multiple times they talked to John Carlin IV, they figured out that Carlin IV, young Carlin, knew that Kent had been shot in the stomach. That wasn't released to the public. None of that information. So they met. They were wondering that. They didn't tell anybody about those wounds so they said either the father told him that or or that's the option that we don't know so oh boy michelle goes to prison she gets work as an 85

cent an hour sewing uniforms job perfect she does that um she said it was it was the most normal job she could find in there she learned how to uh you know get lip gloss and shit like that in the black market in prison um she would try to get fresh fruit and vegetables she could order shit from costco which is weird. Yeah. She's able to order food from Costco. You can order. I didn't know you could order in Amazon fucking box cuts. Crazy. So she uses her iron that she ordered from Costco also to make ham and cheese croissant paninis.

Oh, I love that. She's making croissant paninis. Maybe that is called prison sandwiches. She's making croissant paninis. Baby, that is called... Come on, man. It's called prison sandwiches. That's not croissant panini. Fuck me. She says she likes reading The New Yorker and Atlantic Monthly and whatever books her friends give her.

She did end up in the hole a couple times for breaking the rules, including having chewing tobacco. What? She said it was for bartering, not for herself. it was to trade for other people which makes sense um she said that she wakes up with nightmares and you know says oh my god it's real i'm really here she's in an eight by ten foot cell um she gets 15 minute phone calls with her husband that's it um yeah it's really doing it. She said that, yeah, not being able to control and structure was the hardest part for her.

John Carlin. Yeah, how's he doing? Well, he does a jailhouse interview. He says now that the reason that Kent had all these problems is because T.T., quote, was a homosexual that was very unhappy with being a homosexual. He portrayed very openly a macho man imagery, but he was very effeminate. I remember once when the Avon man came to the door, he actually ran around Michelle, who was walking to the door to get it, and he got two of everything. He sat there and put lotion on his feet and lotion on his head. Okay.

Maybe he's dry. Maybe he likes soft skin sir yeah the only gay man who's avon fuck man um he says that he did own a 44 caliber desert eagle now he admits it from jail and he said that he didn't admit it because he said he it looked like the people were coming after him the cops and he said that looked very bad for me so i didn't i didn't i lied he said that he was under intense scrutiny he i didn't i didn't i lied he said that he was under intense scrutiny he couldn't help it he goes and it's probably was the murder weapon but i didn't use it as that he said um yeah he said it'll just look bad for me he said

i found that gun no i didn't i'm sorry john found that gun in the closet his son and i heard michelle yelling don't touch it don't touch it so Carlin Sr. said as he rounded the corner, he came face to face with Michelle that was now worried his fingerprints were on the gun, and that's why he washed it, to get his son's fingerprints off. And he said he got rid of the gun by throwing it into a dumpster. So his son is maybe lying?

Well, he also says that he's sure about this. He said that might be the murder weapon, but I didn't kill him. And I know this, Michelle certainly didn't pull the trigger. They said, well, who did that? And he said, good question, but it wasn't me. My son's fingerprints may be on it. Wow. They said, why does Michelle continue to fascinate you?

And he said, it's indefinable. Whatever she needs to be, she is. You'll never, ever sit down and get Michelle. You will never, not now, not 10 years from now, you will never get Michelle. You will never get what she wants at that particular time to portray to you. She's herself. John Carlin is in prison here. When he first gets there, apparently he's real racist and he talks shit to native Alaskans a lot. He got in trouble in jail. They were like, dude, you're going to get fucking killed in here if you keep fucking talking shit to the natives. And apparently he is severely beaten in September 2007 after changing the fucking TV channel from what everybody was watching. You don't do that, man. Don't do that.

He was beaten by four native inmates there. A guard reported that Carlin told him he was lying on his bunk watching TV when four men, one of whom who had letters tattooed on his knuckles, that seems fair for guys in prison, rolled in and beat him up, he said. So they beat him up there. Shortly after he goes to Gen Pop, he's attacked again.

So he wrote a letter to the Anchorage Daily News saying he needed to be moved or protected before the other prisoners killed him. He said that his problem stemmed in part from the visits he received from national television networks and all that kind of shit. Then, in 2008, he is murdered in jail he's beaten what he's beaten

to death in prison from blunt force trauma you could have just shut your mouth dude and not multiple inmates beat him to death it's his third severe beating in two years and finally he died that's a man that loves to watch tv. Here's the thing. He was appealing during that case. So his conviction is thrown out because he's dead. And he died in the Aaron Hernandez rule thing. So that no longer exists, his murder conviction. Completely gone. It can never happen.

He's an awesome man. 2010, Michelle appeals, okay? Appeals based on several incidents, especially the last seduction, the fact, the thing that they did with the movie, the thing that they did with the letters. They say that that is over the top. They reverse her conviction. They have to try her again. Now, new trial, they can't use anything on george on john carlin because legally his conviction does not exist oh my god so legally it's just her and they have to prove she murdered

someone without another person to put it or put on her so they said that the judge says my case my sense of the case with her is that it was built on the foundation of john carlin's conviction that's certainly going to affect the presentation of the case, and it may well affect how the juries react to the case. So she is released from jail pending whatever, pending new charges, and she says, I have to stay within the Anchorage Bowl. My curfew is 8 p.m. to 7 a.m. She has to wear an ankle monitor and all that shit.

She said, I have so much restored restored faith in people in the system, but I don't want to be naive again. So 2011 authorities with no evidence dismiss her murder indictment. They have no other way to do it. They can bring it up again, but probably not. So she is let out on bail. Brian Watt, an executive, donated $25,000 for her bail money, and an Anchorage strip club owner and businessman put up his motel as collateral for the bail. The Alaskan Bush founder.

Oh, my God. She said she was leery taking presents from strange men, but then she realized she's used to it, so it's fine. I do that kind of thing. Yep. So now John Carlin, the fort, sues the prison and gets $160,000 in a wrongful debt settlement for her father. Now, Michelle tries to go back to life as she knows it, but she ends up splitting up with Colin. And they still worked together as of a few years ago at a skin care clinic that they ran jointly. So, yeah, this is interesting.

She split up because she called him a homosexual. Yeah, I'm sure she would now. So, yeah, she's out on bail and she's done. That's it. She gets away with it. Everybody's like it never happened. This has been on a lot of shows, too. Dateline, Oxygen did a Snap.

They did a 48 Hours. E! did a thing. People Magazine. There's a book called Dead Man's Dancer, the Michelle Linehan story. There's a bunch of stuff, but this is a crazy-ass story, and it needed to be covered thoroughly, I feel like, and and that is wow fucking wild so everybody walks she did two years in jail for this and that's it she's gone next time you get a lap dance you don't love her you don't love next time you get a lap dance don't look them in the eye that's never look them in the eye that they don't want to make eye contact with you you don't want to make you look at their tits. Make this a transaction that both of you can appreciate

and understand. Put it that way because she doesn't love you and you shouldn't love her. That is Hope Alaska everybody. I have lost all my hope. If you like that, we'll go through this real quick. Check out or get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It really

does help a lot. Keep an eye out also for our new podcast. Your stupid opinions about reviews from all over the internet head over to shut up and give me murder.com get tickets to all your live shows april 20th 4 20 virtual live show get your tickets now it's available for seven days after that to watch purchase do whatever you want with as well may 5th we're in detroit may 6th we're in pittsburgh get your tickets to all of those also uh follow us on social media at murder Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. As well as definitely head over to Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get access to everything.

Huge back catalog. Two new ones every week. This week for Crime and Sports, it's personal ad time. Fuck yeah. We can't wait. Here are people trying to sell themselves in the newspaper to get fucked in the 80s. And then for Small Town Murder, BTK's childhood, pretty much in his own words, creepy as fuck. Check that out.

That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. Get in there. And if you do do that, you'll also get a shout out. When does that shout out happen? Right motherf, now. Jimmy, hit me with them like a desert eagle to the face. This week's executive producers are Jens Christian Krause or Jans. What is that?

Jens? Is it Jens? Jens? Yeah, it's got to be Jens, right? Is he Pittsburgh? I don't know. I don't know. Thank you, Jens and Jens and Jens and Jens.

We appreciate it. Shannon Short, Raptor 1, happy birthday. Obviously, that is from Raptor Two. Clearly. They talk to each other in Raptor One and Raptor Two. Raptor One and Raptor Two. Don't do that in bed. That's weird.

Soggy Bottom Soaps. Buy soaps from them, I suppose. Rex 500R. I imagine he rides a Honda. That sounds right. Dylan Glucart. Glucart. Glucart.

Glucart. It's a fucking fascinating name, Dylan. Other producers this week are the Fat Penguin from the Blues Brothers, Peyton Meadows, Robert Toski, Ivan the Polish Hammer. Polish. Putzki. Yeah. Yeah.

Who is he? Ivan Putzki. He's a wrestler from the 70s and 80s. He's a Polish Hammer? Polish. Putzki. Yeah. Who is he? Ivan Putzki. He's a wrestler from the 70s and 80s. He's a Polish Hammer. He's the Polish Power, Ivan Putzki. Polish and Polish are spelled the exact same way. They are. You really have to look at context when you're reading that word. It's a bit confusing.

Yeah. I would say so. It could be the Polish Hammer. Well, there's a Polish Hammer, right? It's a tool. You dumb Pollock. Mitch Comstein? Comstein? It's a tool. You dumb Pollock. Mitch Kumstein. Kumstein?

Kumstein. Yeah. Terje? Terje? Thorsen? Holland? Holland. Terje.

Terje? Yeah. Thank you. Eros Whiskey and Tequila at Centeno Kennels. Edward Gatto. The cat. Matthew Reinbold. Janice Hill.

Aaron Bridges. Tammy Brown. Buffy Riley. Phil DeGrief. Phil DeGrief. Phil, you're DeGrief. though the cat uh matthew reinbold janice hill aaron bridges tammy brown buffy riley phil de grief phil your de grief uh kathleen kathleen lincoln alex facera sarah mock jocelyn de groff uh ethan page david who waltz andrew henriquez and henriquez i've never heard that one i've heard of henriquez. All right. Kara Kirby. What do you want? You heard of Petra Gallo before you met me? Probably not.

That name doesn't exist, Andrew. How dare you? Lyle North. Lucas Kirby. Crystal Dawn. Foxhound 11. Kristen with no last name. Riley Serino.

Billy Niner. Joanna Roney. Renee. Alicia Reynolds-Maneer. Riley Serino. Billy Niner. Joanna Roney. Alicia Reynolds-Maneer. Karen Gridley. Ricky Newell. Cheryl Agosto. Jake Plotes. Michael Sturgis.

Amanda Stemp. Corey Long. Sex Spam. 86. Jake Logan. Josh Craig. Erica Plachter. Jeff M. Andrea Gillette. Jeremy Ames, Smalls with no last name, Alisa, Alicia with no last name, David Jaskula, Patrick with no last name, Marissa Dillon, June Morris, Miss Birchstead.

Oh, she was going to bring devil dogs to you somewhere. I forget where. You needn't do that, James. Oh, I have devil dogs now. I live in New York. I can get them any day right down the street. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Todd Layton, A with no last name.

Just the letter A. Doug M. Marie with no last name. This show brought to you by the letter A. Stanley Pierre, Miss Kelsey Galbraith, Tina Lusignolo. Yeah Tina Lusignolo, how do you even say that? Jennifer Wilson, John Kelly, Christopher Steininger, Christopher and Carmela Strat, Laura with no last name, Heather Liger, Gadmar G uh oh gadmar g beach klein tiffany jones spencer duncan cook paula lundstrom lundstrom uh elena ewaltz uh megan hendrickson dwayne drury

fuck that's a tough one uh john nicewender niecewender i don't know simone simone hawkins courtney sassone annalise de DePille. That's French, yes. Dr. Gip Gip, Melinda Noble, Mark Cole, Chris with no last name, Jennifer Keefe, D. Paul Guyette, Jason Solling, Sarah M., Amy Hills, his. Amy his? Hala. Sure. Yeah.

What is that? I don't know. I said sure. Why not? Call yourself whatever you want. Hala Alza B. Derry Sharpton. Lucy with no last name.

Luke with no last name. Arlo Christman. Terry Henderson. Tim Ruggiero. Chris Jones. Todd Shamblin. Nevin Otley. Amy Gustafson.

Kyle Franklin. Robert Postlewaite. Aaron Chaffee. Brenda Crump. Kat Sutton. Suzanne Schmidt, India Hauser, Sadie McIver. Is that maybe like Bonaventure? Okay. Kelly Carja. I love Kelly Carja.

You try to figure it out as you're on the fly. Like you're going to get to the bottom of it. Kelly Carjalati, Bella Mazzerati maza mazari yeah jamie stevens donna edwards brandy mendel dragons fire kristin scoby princess cluse uh brooke general gerziniya gerziniya uh what broke gerziniya okay maybe it's Brooke. Charles Berman III. Brooke Rosinha, I don't know. Cecilia Fasano. Ben with no last name. Sarah Edgar.

Elizabeth Carey. Isabel Gabrielle. Greg with no last name. Carla Darina. Darina. Gabrielle. Isabel Gabriel. That's what it is.

Kyle Hart. Kim Hollander. Ryan Milligan. Anthony Davis. Probably not that one. Megan Rose. Josh Escamilla, Angel J, Alicia Lawrence, MJ Vieira, Eric England, Jake Keller, Karen Elise, Ryan Hagen, Mike Kellogg, Paul Gutierrez III, Dirty D, Gross Terrell with no last name, J. Lee, Scotty with no last name, Scotty Gaviola, Jody Klinkerton-Valesky, Nina Slowinska, Ashley Fife, Paul Sipar, Sipar? What is that? S-I-P-A-R? Sipar? The second. Sound it out, Wisman. What is that? Chloe Hopkins.

Jace Grandquist. Thomas with no last name. Veronica with no last name. Kate with no last name. Stacey Collins. Hollow Rain. Raymond Roberts. Justin Bone. Christy Massey.

Ashley Bosch. Frederick Comande. James, nope, that's Smith James. Is that James Smith? Jackson with no last name, Candy Long, Meredith Kriger, Misty in L-Town, Misty in L-Town, Noel Rossi, it might be I-Town, I don't know, BJ Vogel, Insane Assassin, Jay Bird, Tara C, and all of our patrons, you're fantastic. Thank you.

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