Small Town Murder - #380 - The Atomic Wedgie Killer - McLoud, Oklahoma

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

This week, in McLoud, Oklahoma, easily the strangest murder that we've ever covered occurs, when a biker & his step son decide to get together, to drink copious amounts of booze, and hang out, even though they're currently in the middle of a war of words, over several disagreements. First of all, does the step son owe thousands of dollars in trailer rent? Also, whether the stepson, and his mother, are "worthless" & "sorry" as accused by the stepfather. Who will win this escalating battle??Along the way, we find out that you don't even have to grow blackberries to be the "blackberry capital of the world", that bikers seem to take trailer rent very seriously, and that you can't strangle a man with his own underwear "by accident"!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Let’s go on a trip… to Bud’s Goods! Bud’s Goods is a New England cannabis brand with three recreational dispensaries in Massachusetts. In celebration of 420, we are raffling off a $100 Bud’s Goods gift card: enter here. Yayyyyyy! Must be 21+ to enter.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express express yeah and choo-choo oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed all aboard the murder train welcome to the craziest show in the world my

name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you again this is we're excited express is obviously 10 pounds of lightning in about about a quarter ounce bag, I would say, like a dime bag, like you get old bag. But there's 10 pounds in there. That's how we do this. So no different today. Before we get to it very quickly, definitely head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your tickets. May the 5th is our next regular live show in Detroit. Yeah. Come on out to see us. And pittsburgh the next night may the 6th and of course the virtual live show april the 20th 4 20 virtual live show cannot wait i'm gonna get jimmy real stone during this show i have a number of things that i've purchased that will freak him

out just to see never mind to have to smoke out of them so it's gonna be hilarious to watch watch oh boy definitely and it's going to be a crazy live show yeah just like a regular live show but you're in your living room and jimmy superstone it's going to be awesome and i'll always i'm usually stone so in general yeah in general yeah that's my baseline so i'll join you though we'll have a good time that shut up and give me murder.com get everything there you also want to go over to patreon.com slash crime in sports. That's where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 or above, you get a thick back catalog of bonus stuff. Almost 200 episodes.

And then new ones every other week. And we always keep them coming. We're very reliable with that stuff. And this week, what you're going to get, one crime in sports, one swell town murder, as usual. For crime in sports, you're going to get back to personal. Hell yeah. A couple times a year we do these. Let's go back, look in some newspapers from around from the 80s and 90s and see how people tried to do it before there was an internet to find people. Just putting it out there.

Here I am. Please. I don't know. Non-marketing people selling pieces of shit. Oh, it's amazing. So check that out. And then for small town murder, something so creepy and weird and just because it's all in his own words the serial killer childhood series we're going to revisit with btk's childhood and it's like all in his own words and

it's he's such a creep man yeah the maybe the creepiest killer of all time to me he's the guy courtroom words were bad enough oh no no this this is this is so much worse he said it clean patreon.com yeah slash crime and sports get it all right there and uh before we get to the show obviously we have to definitely yeah you gotta know you gotta know where where are you right now where are you right now tell me something are you stuck in traffic is that what it is are you stuck in traffic it's starting to lighten up good good good it's starting to lighten up? Good, good, good. It's starting to lighten up.

Everybody's flowing. I want you to stop. Turn your car sideways. Cause a traffic jam. Get out. Not on your car. Stand on someone else's hood and shout into their windshield. Yeah.

Shut up and give me murder. And that'll get traffic flowing, I feel like. People will be going around you probably just to get away from you. That said, let's go on a trip. Let's do it. Shall we? Because we have a wild ass show today. We're going all the way back to Oklahoma.

Oh, boy. Oh, now we had a wild one on our last Oklahoma. But this time we're going to McLeod, Oklahoma. And it's not McCloud. It's McLeod. MCL, not MCCL. Really? So, yeah to McLeod, Oklahoma. And it's not McCloud. It's McLeod. M-C-L, not M-C-C-L. Really? So, yeah, McLeod, Oklahoma.

Like if McDonald's had a record label. Yeah, it would be McLeod. That'd be like their 90s hip-hop label. Yeah, I think Wu-Tang came out on McLeod, didn't it? It's Irish hip-hop only. It was Everlast's label in the 90s. Whitey Ford sings the blues before he picked up an acoustic guitar to tell you about what it's like so um jesus this is in

i mean you couldn't be more dead center of oklahoma oh this is dead they should have called this town bullseye yeah right in the middle center man mix center oklahoma population 4223 so pretty small and it's right outside oklahoma city too which is interesting um it's about 35 minutes to oklahoma city so you can easily drive into there but it's very rural it's not just like all connected suburb everyone talks about how rural it is out here um And it's about an hour and a half to our last episode, which was Jenks, Oklahoma, with our friend with the wonderful forehead. The happiest meal was the name of that one. And what a crazy ass episode that was. This Oklahoma never lets us down.

Never. Nobody ever lets us down, really. What are we talking about? They really bring it hard. They do. Median income in this town is about $48,115, which is just below the national average. But weird stat that I found, 0% of the people here make over $200,000 a year. Not a one.

Nobody, yeah. Nobody's running the grocery store or whatever it is. It's not happening here. Median home cost is also pretty low, though, $177,400. Okay. Which is, whoa. Well, thank God., though, $177,400. Okay. Which is low. Well, thank God. Not bad because it's out there.

Nobody's got $200,000. Plus, no one would live there otherwise. Motto of this town, the Blackberry Capital of the World. Is that where it's at? And they mean the actual berries. It's not just like, we make old phones nobody wants anymore. We'll talk more about the blackberries and how ridiculous of a motto that is now. We'll talk about it.

A little bit of history of this town. It was known for manufacturing and selling whiskey to white people and to natives in dry Indian territory where they weren't allowed to sell it. So this was this. They said, you know, this town, we don't care. We're selling liquor even though we're not allowed to sell it oh so this was this they said we don't this town we don't care we're selling liquor even though we're not allowed to sell to sell liquor uh it was originally the original town completely destroyed in a flood of course obviously as everything we talk about in oklahoma was destroyed in a flood and then they rebuilt the town on higher ground about a mile south brilliant same town just put it over there in 1895 a post office finally showed up and it was named after a

railroad attorney john william mcleod again everything in oklahoma is named after someone who worked for the railroad yeah that's all it is really this whole country boy boy are we proud of the fucking railroad well back then that was like when a railroad came through the people were like now there's a town now their land was. I mean, people went batshit when the railroad came through. Now they're like, oh, is that near a train track? Ugh. Jesus. So loud.

It was originally spelled McCloud, but then they changed it because the guy's name was McCloud. Oh. So, yeah, they screwed it up at first. It was an agricultural center for a long time, and now it's pretty much a bedroom community for Oklahoma City. In 1949, it was recognized as the Blackberry Capital of the World. In 49. In 49, when the Chamber of Commerce from the town sent a crate of blackberries to President Harry S. Truman. Oh.

So he said, you're the Blackberry Capital of the World. Stupid. Now I'm going to go drop a bomb. I'm not going to eat these. That's what he said. These are weird. I don't like these. So reviews of this town.

Let's find out what other people think. Yeah. And I'm going to give you three pretty good ones and then one that's a little less, but it's funny. Okay. Here's four stars. Good community. Diminishing as years go on. That's not great.

Public schools getting worse in time, but great AG program. Ag. Oh. Agriculture. Not AG ag it's ag okay uh four stars mcleod is a small town where everyone knows everyone well right away that's one star for me everyone knows everyone and there isn't a bunch of attorney generals no good yeah shit the town has a great variety of events that happen throughout the year that bring people from other towns and cities. That's not true because I look for things to do. They have one thing.

So not true. Here's four stars. I have lived here my whole life. The local police are very professional and do a great job. I don't know why that's the number one thing to talk about. Pretty. I miss I hear a lot, too. Pretty creepy at night due to the lack of street lamps and some of the residential.

Love that. Yeah. But I guess it's if you're out in the middle of nowhere lamps in some of the residential love that yeah but i guess it's if you're out in the middle of nowhere it's real dark type of thing and you don't know if like a a wolf is running through the yard you know nothing in the area is open late into the night except for loves slash subway near i-40 that's because that's a truck stop the subway that's in the love that's what that it's a slash so yeah and that's because that's a truck stop that's open 24 7 that's not so their logo is on your nba team's patch that's not part of your town yeah uh here is one star and this is amazing i love this the water department is

completely corrupt i love when someone nothing more than when someone takes a petty personal beef and makes it about, and reviews the whole town for it. This town would be amazing if not for... Fucking water. No places to eat at all. That's not good. Fuel is very expensive. The people are friendly. Okay.

Okay, so, I mean, that's one star. At least give the people maybe for two stars. Elaborate on that corrupt fucking water company. I want to know the whole ins and outs. I'm honestly glad they didn't. I like it. Because sometimes they do. They're like, Becky, I talked to her, and she said this,

and then I called David, and then he told me this, and then they didn't return my email. Let's just keep it at it's corrupt. So things to do, the McLeod Blackberry Festival. There it is. Oh, yeah. By the way, it's the blackberry capital of the world their only thing to do blackberry festival yeah uh no although there is no longer large-scale

commercial blackberry farming in the cloud what even have blackberries here anymore not a one grows nope they said blackberries still grow wild in the area that doesn't make it the blackberry capital of the world because i see them in the grocery store which means someone is producing them on a large scale right more than you at least so you're not even close you're not even cultivating them to sell them no not happening at all i got a shitload of them you know exactly so they have this festival and uh it started in the early 40s as a celebration for the end of harvest season for the local you know shit here. So the reason that it is the Blackberry Capital of the World, like we said, they sent the thing to Truman, a case, and he said they were the best he'd ever tasted. Oh, he actually tried them.

He's a connoisseur, and he named it that. The association, though, this Chamber of Commerce with the Blackberry Growers Association, disbanded in 1963. It's been gone for 50 years. Due due to a poor market and the farmers moved on and started growing other shit 60 years it's been 60 years these people for 15 years they had a blackberry thing and that they're still holding on to it so this has uh all kinds of blackberry themed bullshit from fresh blackberries cobbler soda teas live music parade food fireworks and of course the turtle races oh have that um and there's also the austin poker tournament held during this it's free thank fuck you better be and of course as you can see here jimmy little your chair of course there's a

blackberry junior princess the blackberry princess and the blackberry queen obviously here all lined up together the queen's fucking 14 yeah it's like a it's like a five-year-old a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old i hate it just standard oklahoma blonde ladies and here are the marshals right here santa claus and some other lady some lady that's creepily younger than him it's or just dies everything so um or another thing to do figure out what to do with money because i'm right on the front page of the town website it says the mcleod city council's looking to the citizens of mcleod for your input on how the city should invest 274 958 dollars and 81 cents of the american rescue plan act grant funding they want to hear your input to figure out what to do with it.

Maybe get the BlackBerry started again. Maybe elect somebody that knows. It has to be spent by December 2024, so get in there, everybody. Figure it out fast. That said, let's talk about it. All right. We've had some weird murders, Jimmy. Yeah.

And we've had some strange murders. We've had some twisted murders. This one really is a Venn diagram of everything meeting in the middle. murders jimmy yeah and we've had some strange murders we've had some twisted murders this one really is a venn diagram of everything all right it's the weirdest thing we've ever talked about let's go back a little bit not too far here go back about 10 years to december of 2013 oh so pretty recent very very recent here um we're going to talk about a guy here let's talk about denver lee st claire great name denver lee st claire that's a fucking country artist if i ever We're going to talk about a guy here. Let's talk about Denver Lee St. Clair. Great name.

Denver Lee St. Clair. That's a fucking country artist if I ever heard one. Denver. Yeah. His name is Denver. Badass. And that's not even like, he's not like a douchebag 12-year-old whose parents named him after. He's 58 years old. In 2013.

So he's an older guy. That's awesome. His mom was like, Denver. Yeah, that's right. So he's an older guy. That's awesome. His mom was like, Denver. Yeah, that's right.

From what I see, he's got like three brothers. And his mother, his dad died when he was younger. He's a biker, Denver. Really? Big into bike. He's just a biker. Every picture of him, he's on a bike. He's always into motorcycles.

Fascinating. Big Harley guy, which we'll both be able to talk pretty easily about that. Pretty fluidly. Jimmy likes Harleys. And as you know, my family is- Very deep in Harley. harley guy which uh we'll both be able to talk pretty pretty easily about that jimmy likes harley's and um as you know my family is very deep in harley is this yeah my dad has been a biker since i could ever remember my brother and everything so yeah i biker culture is plenty plenty prevalent around both of us we get it we'll put it that way so he is married to so by the way any sideways shit no it comes from experience and uh if it if it applies to you fucking wear it wear it like one of those like one of those bad tattoos that you got it was a bad decision that

time when you didn't shouldn't have gotten one but you got one anyway because your friend was getting one you dumb shit so or the vest with your personality patches all over it wear it wear it like your cosplay outfit so um that was if i went to my brother had a birthday party for his kid and like a shitload of bikers showed up at one point and i was like oh the cosplay squad is here isn't that cute isn't that adorable look at them all they're all dressed nice together isn't that so they all. They have matching beards. This is hilarious. Like, I just want to be like, don't you see that you look like the Lollipop Guild on motorcycles?

You all look ridiculous. It's funny. So anyway, he's married to a woman named Tressia, which I've never heard as a name. It sounds like a cholesterol medication, like a cholesterol regulator. Like, have you tried Tressia? Tell your doctor you'd like Tressia. A brand of bottled water. Blackberry brandy.

Tressia flavor. Tressia brand. Yeah. They've been married about 20 years, these two. Not 20 easy years or 20 problem-free years. Okay. There's been some issues oh boy as times happen and they live in a trailer and uh times are interesting for them okay um they've had there's some a lot of allegations of abuse about from for denver oh at denver he's the one doing it toward

denver is the best way to put that um according to Tressia here, in 2001, Tressia claimed that Denver pointed his shotgun at her and said he was going to kill her. That's a problem. Then a restraining order was placed on him in 2008 after a complaint from his wife here. And this complaint was, okay, she said that in the application for the restraining order, because you have to say why. You can't just say, I don't want that person to be able to come near me. So she said she found her husband, oh my God, quote, embraced in a sexual way with a drinking buddy.

Oh. So if you walk in and see two bikers making out i'd get a restraining order too because i don't want to see that we're just hugging your clothes are off yeah even if you're into gay stuff yeah you don't want to hear that velcro with those two beards going together that's going to be bad so that's enough for a restraining order well no but she confronted him about that this that led, A led to B here. And he responded, apparently, allegedly, by grabbing her by the neck and throwing her through a bathroom door. Like a closed door.

Like it wasn't closed. It was now a different door. You could say that's an overreaction. I would say. He Kool-Aid manned her right through the door, which is a bit much. So between the shotgun and that, she, you know, had done that. Now, as of December 2013, in about September of 2013, Tressia filed for divorce. I'm sorry.

He filed for divorce. Denver did in 2013. I got confused because this is the third time that they've started divorce proceedings by the way oh my once you get to the third follow through yeah it's it keeps it keeps coming up it's a common theme how do you have so many times well yeah it's the third time the first two were filed by tressia one in 2004 which apparently the shotgun incident didn't really. Right. And then the other in 2010.

Okay. So, again, this is two years after he throws her through a door. Right. So I don't know what he had to do to finally push her over the edge for the divorce. Nine years, we've had three events that lead to divorce filing. That's wild, man. It's crazy shit. So that's where they stand right now. Still together, still living in the same trailer

yeah but uh divorce has been filed for third time for a third time so by the third time do you even take it seriously anymore after the first two didn't fall go through after the second one you never take it serious ever again i'm filing for divorce just go hey the hell out of here you're not filing you're gonna file for that's going to cost us money to file that. Yeah, you're not filing. The paperwork's not free. For fucking shit, are you? That's funny.

So, yeah, that's how that's going. Now, Tressia has a son. Okay. And she has a couple of sons, but one we'll talk about in particular here. This is obviously Denver's stepson. This isn't Denver's child. Got it. This is Brad Lee Davis.

And everybody's middle name is Lee there. Okay. But you can't do a first name that the last name, or the second name makes it another name. Brad Lee. Yeah, you can't do that. Brad Lee Davis. Denver Lee St. Clair. I think it's the rule in the county.

You must be named Lee if you're, just to honor the Confederacy. I don't know what it is. Name my kid Char. Something. So he's a former marine yeah uh brad davis here he's 33 years old in 2013 and uh former marine and he's been trying to he's lost he's a kind of a drifting soul at this point in time he's he worked as a maintenance worker at a casino for a while somewhere in Oklahoma. There's a shitload of casinos. Yeah, there is.

So that whole state is just oil and casinos. It's the only thing there is. It's all gambling. They love it. That's it. And at this time, in December of 2013, he's cutting wood for a living. Oh, God, Jesus. Which is tough work.

Oh, that hurts so bad. It's bad. Yeah yeah that's like the usually that's the work it's work for a young man chainsaw or axe splitting i i think he's it's not like he's not lumberjack i think this is wood for like firewood like that jesus which is tough work it is tough work we get wood from a guy in new york yeah it's like he's like a 22 year old college kid who's got energy to do this. But I can't imagine, because I'm like, I'm not chopping all that wood.

No. Jesus Christ. Yeah, and a splitter, like the actual wedge. That's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. It's a lot.

So that's what he's doing for a living. But I mean, he's like, he's a big rugged guy. Sure. Everybody here, Denver's a big guy. Yeah.

Everybody's a bunch of big bikery guys. Yeah. Marines and bikers. Yeah. And you know, it's a hearty Oklahoma squad here. Dense folks.

Now, Brad lives in a trailer nearby Tressia and Denver, which is owned by Tressia and Denver. Oh. So they let him stay there at this trailer. Now, there's some issues, though. And the issues are apparently that Denver believes that Brad is supposed to have been paying rent and Brad doesn't feel that way. So it's a disagreement. That's usually solved day one on move in. I should pay me.

No, I shouldn't. Apparently this has gone on for a while because listen to this. OK, the the Denver says thatad owes him seven thousand dollars for staying there oh back rent i don't know if he's been staying there for 40 50 years his entire life since before he was born or i don't know what it is but denver's giving a running tally though for sure a running tally but for seven grand you could pretty much buy a trailer in rural oklahoma can't you i mean for 15, probably. What are we talking about here?

Is this a rent to own situation? What are we doing? This is nuts. Yeah. I mean, this isn't like it's in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. This is like a lot of times. Lot fees are more than the fucking trailer itself.

That's true. I don't know what's going on. Maybe that's what he needs. But it's on his land, right? I think it is. I don't know. So now they said that. Here's the problem, though. December 20th. OK, let's get very specific. December 20th. Brad Davis tells his brother that Mr. Sinclair here, Denver, had told him that he was he told Brad's brother that he was going to, quote, pull Brad out of that trailer by his throat.

Yeah. So he's planning on, you know, ejecting. Forceful eviction. Never mind evicting, ejecting him from the trailer. Probably throwing him through a bathroom door or however he wants to do it. But that's the plan. That's what he told Brad's brother. So this, you know, it gets around he owes me 7 000 and

everybody knows there's beef yeah well there's beef there's also oftentimes hyperbole too that's the other grab throw him out by his throat especially too he's a fucking biker from oklahoma you know what i mean again i will say that there's a lot of yeah a lot of posturing yeah in this group a lot of bullshit what comes with the little vests you gotta act like you're you know what i mean there's a certain is this when you put clown makeup on you can't just walk around not blowing up balloons you know what i mean like you put a baseball jersey on you grab a bat it's just one of those things yeah you gotta act a certain way so at least a glove at least you gotta catch the fly ball something toss a ball something. There's a little grandiose behavior.

A little bit. So that's how this is built up to December, to the holidays. It's going to be a lovely holiday around the St. Clair household. Jesus Christ. So the next day after the going to pull Brad out of that trailer by his throat comment, on December 21st, 2013, apparently Brad is invited over for drinks to to denver and tressius trailer by his throat by i think he said i'll come over and pick you up by your throat and drag you over here so apparently he's supposed to come over to the trailer and have some drinks now i don't know

if this is a holiday truce possibly okay there's a lot of times there's a lot of beef around the holidays people go hey you know what there's a lot of beef around the holidays. People go, hey, you know what? There's a baby born. We'll squash it for today. Let's have some eggnog and fucking relax about it for a while. And then we'll glory to the king. I'm wearing a sweater. I can't get into shit right now. Can't get fights in a sweater.

Get your blood on these trees. No, no. No one starts throwing people through doors while they're wearing a sweater. It just doesn't happen. Trees on my chest. Look at me. I'm festive for Christ's sake. I mean, you could drug a woman, obviously, and have sex with her wearing a sweater. It just doesn't happen usually. I have trees on my chest. Yeah, look at me. I'm festive for Christ's sake. I mean, you could drug a woman, obviously,

and have sex with her wearing a sweater because Bill Cosby proved that, but that's as far as you can go. You can't fight in red, green, and white. You look dumb. You look really stupid. You look drunk immediately. Anyone who fights wearing a Christmas outfit,

you immediately go, shit, those people are tanks because you didn't dress up like that to fight. What's in your nog? Yeah. So Tressia is not here, though. Tressia is is recovering from a hip surgery in the hospital. God, fuck.

So she's not there. So this is going to be just a boy's night in the trailer. Yeah. So obviously of two guys that don't like each other. Obviously, this has potential to be wonderful. Right. So it's just Denver and Brad. Yeah, booze, a trailer, financial beefs, the holidays.

What could go wrong? No referee. Cookies don't solve that. No. I hope Tressie left some pies behind or something for him. Sugar cookies ain't fixing this shit. So according to everything here, things turned a little bit ugly after a few hours of drinking weird again you get two big aggressive guys together in a trailer of beef with each other

and one thinks the other owes them money and the other one thinks they don't and then you drop a bunch of whiskey in them and see what happens you get two guys together with all those scenarios that like each other they're gonna be there's fighting that goes on so this is insane so apparently an argument began yeah obviously when he's i guess denver allegedly started according to brad bad mouthing his wife not brad's wife brad's mom tressian really denver started bad mouth and his own wife. He filed for divorce. Yeah. So, I mean, that's bad. That's the ultimate bad mouth. I told the judge how much I don't like. Yes. I mean, I'll tell everybody. I'll tell whoever wants to know. Yeah. So that's a different story. Brad says that his mother had discovered. Oh, this is his allegation. His before this, he had told his brother this, that Brad said he discovered that Denver had committed insurance fraud and that Tressia had reported it to the police. And that's why she's going to look like shit.

Well, that's why he that's why Denver filed for divorce because he was pissed off. She told the cops of the insurance fraud. She told on Denver. Yeah, she turned Denver in. OK okay so that's what brad says um so he said that to retaliate for this that during while they're shit-faced denver started threatening to blame uh to blame brad for a fire that destroyed denver's repair shop in august of that year okay so for a fire that destroyed Denver's repair shop in August of that year. Okay. So apparently a fire destroyed it.

There was some insurance problem. She turns him into the police saying he did something. Now Denver's threatening to say, oh, no, I'm going to tell the cops that it was actually you that burned my shop down. Sounds like he insurance frauded his tools and now he's blaming Bradley. Something. To try to get his own ass cleared. This sounds like the trailer walls are rattling.

Yeah. You can hear it. Like the tin is rattling here. This is people that seven grand would change their fucking lives tremendously. That's a lot of people. Yeah. And that's not an insult either by any stretch. But this seven grand will cause enormous lifetime struggles.

Now there's divorce. There's money problems. There's all this shit that's going on here. So apparently Denver kept telling Brad, allegedly, how worthless he was and how worthless his mom was. And you're all worthless. And I hate all of you. Brad said, quote, he kept telling me how sorry my mommy was. You're 33.

Don't say that. Yeah, don't say sorry either. It's how sorry my mommy was, how sorry I was. You can say, I'll trade you sorry for mommy any day. Say sorry all you want, but keep mommy out. You're too old to say mommy. I'm sorry. You just are.

Say mama. Yeah, and I don't like when country guys say my daddy either what do you that was a george carlin thing he said my daddy like no you're a grown man it's very awkward don't do that so he um apparently a fit this turned into a physical altercation as things have want to do after a while uh so this turns into a physical altercation and according to brad denver attacked him He swung first. It was an attack. I mean he came after him and he said that he had a quote

pure look of rage. Pure look? Pure rage look on him. Just raging. He said quote I was defending myself with all I had. Trying to fend off the blows of a man who's 25 years older than you. Who's got pure rage. Who's got pure rage.

Who's got pure rage. But yeah, you're a younger man who was in the Marines. You should be able to, you know, I don't know. Marines are never formers. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Be a Marine. Get them down. In Denver, I mean, you could be very formidable in your mid-50s, especially if you're a tough guy, some tough biker guy.

You could definitely be a formidable guy. Yeah, and full of booze, too. That's the other thing. You feel less pain. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people, with a touch of humor, I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. a dash of sarcasm, and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast.

Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So I guess the Brad says that Denver punched him and kept attacking him and and jumped him is the way he put just jump me after he told me how sorry my mommy was jumping on me. And Brad said he punched him and knocked him is the way he put it. Just jumped me after he told me how sorry my mommy was. He was jumping on me. And Brad said he punched him and knocked him unconscious. Oh. Knocked him out. He got him. Knocked him out, okay?

Yeah. So then he calls 911. Then there's a 911 call at 10, 11 p.m. Okay. So this isn't even that late. That's mad early. This is early. So, I mean, he could have come over 7, 8 o'clock. This is not enough time for physical altercations.

10 p.m. still has programming on aimed at an audience. That's what I mean. You could watch Law and Order. Like back in the day, I'm trying to think what was on, you know, cable. I haven't had cable in years. Late night shows are even on. There's stuff on. Aiming at an audience.

Yeah, you can watch something. But instead, he's called 911. And the police arrive. Yeah. And when they arrive, they find blood spatter all over the place. That's a hell of a punch. A hell of a punch. That's what I mean.

Jesus. They found it in the kitchen, in the living room, and on the living room ceiling. Wow. Which is strange because normally if I punched you, normally there won't be blood spray into three different rooms on the ceiling unless your head explodes. You have some weak capillaries. You real weak man holy balls it explodes like a blackberry would be the only way there so the county sheriff mike booth yeah would later say quote i'd seen i've i'd never seen this before but when we looked at our, the waistband of his underwear was around his neck. That is crazy.

Yes. Now, you're thinking pulled up. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Not Urkel style. Pulled down. We'll get into this. The official cause of death.

Denver's dead on the floor. Wow. Okay. The official cause of death is asphyxiation and blunt force trauma. Both. Both. Both. Yeah. Okay.

Now, okay, the attack. This is how it happened. Once the cops get there and they go, what the fuck am I looking at here? Brad explains that he knocked his stepfather down. Yeah. Figured he knocked him out and he was like, all right, I got him. Right. So while he was unconscious, he said he... I'm sorry. Let's all be mature.

He, quote, gave him an atomic wedgie. Yeah. An atomic wedgie. For the purpose of taking... And he took a picture of it. Oh. To take a picture. He gave him an atomic wedgie, so it would be embarrassing to have a picture of it oh to take a picture he gave him an atomic wedgie so it would

be embarrassing to have a picture of that but an atomic wedgie is you jump out of something right no no no no no no so we'll explain an atomic wedgie and this was explained in seinfeld uh that's what you need to watch seinfeld um and a regular wedgie grab the back of the underwear i don't know if it's as universal from all over international we have listeners from all over the world grab the bag at the back of someone's underwear and you yank them up right every culture society probably since there's been underwear yeah has had some version of the wedgie yeah and it's a thing that kids do to each other haha and you have somebody a wedge oh jesus my balls and my ass all and you rip my taint and all that kind of shit an atomic wedgie yeah though is actually when you pull the band of the underwear up so high that it goes over the

person's head like a hat yeah okay over their head now this was so far it went over their head like a hat and around his his whole face and now you can't get that off okay you know and imagine how much but that's a quality pair of underwear number one that is impressive is impressive. I'm going to be real honest with you. That is quality underwear. That's some stretch. I want to know what kind of, what brand of underwear that was because to not rip, think about that. That is impressive underwear.

So he said he did that and then he left the underwear around his head and, you know, he didn't know. He didn't know he was, and then he looked down and he was dead. He was like, I just thought I knocked him out out gave him a wedgie took a picture thought that was funny um didn't really realize that he was dead and i panicked and that's a hell of a story he says i i went too far he said i acknowledge that listen i didn't think you could kill a man i took the underwear up to a level they shouldn't be taken to i get it just a big three stooges fan i had no idea he said quote i was panicked mad scared it's like a bad dream things got out of hand that's what they told him and he said i can't explain how sorry i am just felt terrible yeah so um the

police detective jimmy brewer said we we've spoken with several investigators about the crime scene and they've never experienced anything like it either no one has no one has this is unique to what i just but i win they walked in the trailer and went well here it is everybody we finally found the weirdest murder ever okay got his underwear around his head what is fucking happening now Let's get into some wedgie science. And this is actually reggie wedgie science. In 2017, doctors from the Baylor University Medical Center published a paper about a 50 year old man's wedgie problem. Yeah, it's called Wedgie Associated Ridicule. Whoa. Ridiculitis in a in a quinquaggianarian. Ridiculitis in a quinquaginarian.

Radiculitis. A 50-year-old. This is from the National Library of Medicine National Center for Biotechnology Information. This is very important. We have paid for this, by the way. Okay. A man had lower back pain and numbness in his legs and toes after his wife who's 16 years younger than him gave him a wedgie playfully gave him a wedgie okay in september 2009 uh he's that's this guy

50 year old man presented with a seven-day history of acute lower back pain accompanied by numbness and tingling down his left leg and into all five toes. The symptoms had begun immediately after his 34-year-old wife had given him an unanticipated playful wedgie of moderate force as he was arising from a sofa. Okay, heat therapy and pain medications had provided some pain relief, but putting

equal or heavier weight on his leg rapidly reproduced the numbness and tingling, as did sitting in certain positions and lying on his left side. She realigned a spine with a wedgie. That is wild. She's a chiropractic wedgie practitioner. Pinching nerves.

Wow. Examination revealed no loss of strength, function, or mobility in the affected limb. We anticipated eventual symptomatic improvement and recommended conservative measures. During clinical visits throughout the next six years, they monitored this man over a wedgie. Six years because she stuffed my underwear in my ass. At the university level, we monitored this man. Unbelievable. The patient said that standing with all the weight on his left leg evoked the same distinct symptoms.

The symptoms were bothersome rather than disabling and imaging studies were not deemed necessary in 2016 the patient now 56 years old said that the wedgie associated ridiculous symptoms had disappeared and he added that his wife had been so disturbed by the event in 2009 that she'd stopped giving him wedges thank god that was like her jam for a while though was like she's the wedgie chick like haha gotcha like sarah likes to scare me yeah jump out and shit and scare me and i'm like i'm getting too old to be doing that you're literally i'm gonna drop dead and you can't do that i'm not old yet but just letting you know i'm gonna be pushing it soon and uh when i'm like 55 you can't be doing that I could just have a heart attack and drop dead. Please don't do that. But it is funny.

58 years old and they finally went away. That's insane. So they said, this is from the report, many more people might be hurt by wedgies than is recorded in medical literature. This is a fucking real thing. Biotechnology, whatever. The paper's authors acknowledge that the exchange of wedgies is anecdotally viewed as an immature act or juvenile prank without consequences other than possible gratification and potential retribution. That's a strong chick.

Man. She fucked up his back. Gotcha. Yeah. What now? I can't feel my leg. Fucking Ric Flair to him afterwards. Yeah.

You don't understand. I can't feel my toes. That's right. That's how I do it. So let's see. those who take risks, including those inherent to atomic wedgies for the sake of novel experience or to seek sensation also might suppress their reporting of pain or injury after an exchange of wedgies.

An exchange! Like it's a back and forth. Like a gift exchange. Like a handshake. I picture like we hand each other a present. Like that's a greeting. Wedgie? I turn around, you wedgie me. They had two very detailed scientific definitions of each kind of wedgie too in here i won't say that part we monitored this patient for several years for a chronic problem that we think resulted from a wedgie our search of pub med for wedgie

and the spanish term calzuncio chino yielded no previous descriptions. Indeed, some languages and cultures seem to have no word or concept for the wedgie. You have to have good elastic band underwear. That's why you have to have a good cotton underwear base to start with. Spanish is an asshole calzone. It was calzone ashole, I believe was the direct translation. I don't know.

I love the Spanish. Call it that. As reported in one news article, a 10-year-old English boy needed surgery in 2004 to reattach his testicle to the scrotal lining after he was given a wedgie split his balls oh my god and then they talk about in 2013 a man was killed it says quote of note atomic wedgies differ differ from standard wedgies in that the underpants are pulled up at least to the recipient's scapulae and optimally over the head with strong or so-called, quote, atomic force.

At least to the shoulders. Now, back to this. Yeah. I mean, I was going to say back to like something serious, but we're talking about. This is not serious. We get it. A man is dead.

Right. That's bad. But this is insane. We get it a man is dead right that's bad and but this is insane we've covered a shitload of we're almost at 400 episodes yeah this and i've we've never heard anything like this never a bully move never no and i've looked at thousands of cases to get to these and i've never read anything about this or you would have heard about it by now. Baylor had to get involved. A university had to, what was the place it was? It was Baylor, right? It was Baylor. National Library of Medicine, National Center for Biotechnology Information is who houses this information now after a Baylor University multi-year, decade-long study.

Imagine being a, you're a doctor. You've gone through all these years of school and you're going to spend a decade studying wedgies? Is that why you got into this? I want to save lives, one wedgie at a time. What is happening? So Brad says it's self-defense. You aren't simple. Self-defense.

Yeah. That's it. I had to give him the wedgie. I had to do it. What can I do? It was That's it. I had to give him the wedgie. I had to do it. What can I do? It was him or me. I had no choice. He was grabbing for my fruit of the looms.

I said, no, yours are going to happen. Cram your BBDs right in there. Wow. He insisted he never intended to kill Denver. He said, quote, this is amazing. I did. He said, what about the wedgie? He goes, quote quote i knew that that

wedgie was out of line he said that in a court of law jimmy a court of oh a stenographer went and typed that think about that he is dubbed obviously the atomic wedgie killer immediately which of course will be the name of this episode because how is it not the atomic wedgie killer immediately, which, of course, will be the name of this episode, because how is it not the atomic wedgie killer? And on the streets, his rep is. Oh, man. Oh, man. Don't fuck with that man. What if he goes to prison?

Watch your undies, fellas. He called his stepfather a bully. Yeah. He said he's always been a bully. He's been bullying me. I've known him since I was a teenager. He's been bullying me. I gave him that wedgie so he would be embarrassed when he woke up yeah don't

mess with den don't mess with brad because he'll knock you out and put your underwear over your head he's trying to humiliate him they said but you you you took a picture of it yeah which looks bad it sure does he said i did take a picture i'm sorry but it was too good to not he was like it's you know they're over his head. When is that going to happen again? Probably the best atomic wedgie ever. Ever. I had to document it. I took it for Baylor University.

They were doing a study. It was purely for scientific purposes. They're going to need this. They're going to need it. The Biotechnology Center really needed to know all about it. So, oh, my God. They think that investigators think, though though based on the crime scene they believe that before brad called 9-1-1 he altered the crime scene to make it look like there'd been a big brawl

oh and it wasn't a big brawl that's what the police are saying they're like this looks that you can tell when shit's real like when they when it look when try to stage a burglary and you could tell when people are actually looking for valuables and people who just like took a drawer out and threw it and like you can tell what's going some people are looking for shit what's efficient behavior yeah and that's what they're looking at here like that doesn't look like two people fell into it fighting that looks like one guy just kicked it over yeah some shit like that so they didn't like that and the sheriff said we continued our investigation and uncovered evidence that led us to believe that this was more than just a fight.

Okay. One of the things was a text message that he, because they looked, they found in his phone, they found his, you know, the picture. And then they found, they looked at his phone records. Apparently, that night, before he went over there, Brad texted a friend of his saying, quote, he was fixing to mess Denver up. And then later on texted that he's definitely going to mess Denver up and that he, quote, had nothing to lose. So that looks bad. When you say, I'm going to mess him up, I got nothing to lose. And then you killed him and there's blood spatter on the ceiling. And you're saying, I just knocked him out,

gave him a wedgie. And you know, this was like a, like a, a college prank gone bad is what it sounds like at this point. Uh, the problem that they're also having is that not only you'd expect a knockout and then the atomic wedgie,

it would be some kind of brain trauma or something like that. Um, he, he has ligature marks around his fucking throat. Oh, he was, he didn't just put the underwear around his head. He then strangled him, they believe,

with the elastic band of the underwear. He yanked him up over him and then stood behind him and pulled. Choked him, yes. And they think then he bashed his head in after that to make it look like a fight. That's the theory that the police have here. They said that, yeah, he pulled the elastic so tightly it left ligature marks around his neck. That's a way to make a funny thing horrible yeah that yeah that's what i mean we got all the funny out of the way and that's why i'm like now let's talk

about the horrible this is terrible this is a terrible way to go he's ruining the joke this is destroying it is a terrible way to go and not only that how that would your balls and your asshole and everything else i don't even know if you'd realize you were choking because everything else would hurt so fucking bad is it yeah as a victim like where do you even grab to stop this that's what i mean it's all hurting so much fuck man hope your underwear ripped why did i buy such quality underwear jesus christ the dollar store at underwear i should have just bought those everybody buy tearaway underwear from now on avoid this with snaps in the crotch this could be avoided very easily yeah break away or the whole

band pops off pow oh never mind yeah and you're just left with some like joe cundies yeah like when george costanza came in with his band and his yeah yeah what did he have he had a wedgie he said they gave him a wedgie and he goes at least it wasn't jerry says at least it wasn't atomic and george whips out the band of the underwear and swirls around his finger and he goes it was ripped the band right off but this he this man had much higher quality underwear so that's what he said he said yes i did it i hit him but i pulled the underwear up as far as i could didn't know i choked him though so. So then 10 days later, they talk to him again, and he's got a little bit of a different story.

Okay. He says, okay, I lied a little bit about the fight. I'm sorry. That was dumb of me to do, but I looked bad. I just, you know. Is that a line as a wedgie? Panicked. Remember panic?

Yeah. Panicking. So he said, that's what I did. He said that he gave his stepfather the wedgie, not after he knocked him out, but as they struggled. He said, so when I'm in a life and death struggle with a large grown man, rather than try to hit him or push him away or whatever the fuck, I try to give him a wedgie. Usually that's what I do. But that'll stop him from attacking me.

I'll get behind a man. If they're like bear hugging, you reach behind, pull his underwear up up that's not a really a move that you do in fighting right i've never seen it before personally i've seen a lot of fights that one i've never heard and uh so that's what he said he goes that's my new story okay ridiculous the whole thing is insane it's yeah so he goes to court here and um they're seeking first-degree murder charges on him for this. And he's trying to say it was just a fight, it was an accident, you know, I didn't mean to do it. And they're going to have a jury trial, and a week before the jury trial, the, by the way, the defense is saying self-defense. That's their defense.

By the way, the defense is saying self-defense. That's their defense. This big guy with a record of violence, he took a swing at me, hit me, and I attacked him. It's not like a two. I was unarmed. I was unarmed. All I could do was wedgie the man. So they said that.

But then at some point here, the prosecutors see that this is kind of a hard case for first-degree murder to make. And the defense attorneys see self-defense is pretty ridiculous because his underwear are over his head. Everybody realizes that they're in over their heads, not to use a wedgie term, but you get it. It's a stretch. They make an agreement on a plea here, and he is going to plead guilty to first-degree manslaughter. Oh. Okay, so he pleads guilty to that. Manslaughter, but first-degree. Okay. So, degree manslaughter oh okay so he pleads guilty to that manslaughter but first degree okay so hardcore manslaughter now sentencing comes around there's no agreement on punishment though that's the thing they agree on the sentence but the punishment for first degree manslaughter

has a gigantic range it's huge it goes from a minimum of four years okay to i think 40 years is the maximum so it's that's a big window of holy shit you don't know 40 on that kind of charge though you're probably not going to do the whole thing no but four is like four is like you know a year and a half for christ's sake so light that's light so that or decades or maybe 20 years even if you have to do half of it jesus christ that's a big difference so um the prosecutors are intending to ask the judge for 35 years in prison, which is a shitload. I mean, that's a lot. And the minimum punishment is four years, like I said.

So, wow. The district attorney said that, quote, this was not mutual combat. This was not self-defense. It was pure aggression. Okay. Nothing says pure aggression like an underwear band over your head. OK, nothing says pure aggression like a underwear band over your head. So now Brad's mother and two brothers came in to testify for him and be character witnesses.

They called him a good person who's willing to help others. But prosecutors bring up more evidence that maybe he's not even nice to his brothers because there's a series of text messages with his brother from a little while ago where he's calling his brother a race traitor constantly. Oh, no. Ew. That's some damning words. He's calling him a race traitor, which means how dare you like a black chick. Or a native or anything. Pretty weird. Yeah, that's just, I mean.

Stupid. You can't help what your dick wants no matter what. So everybody calm the fuck down here. So now Brad's attorney, you have to deal okay jesus christ poor fucking guy text messages and he told his friend he's gonna mess him up yeah fucking race trader shit now i gotta okay the wedgie all right all right don't laugh don't laugh the most bizarre murder weapon on the planet he took a deep breath and said okay your honor yeah uh he said there was never any intent to kill him that way.

I don't think it was even foreseeable to him that he could die that way. Well, if you're, if you're strangling him with the band, that's pretty foreseeable. You can hear what's happening. That's the thing. Uh,

he's, uh, he's, this is the lawyer too. I don't even think it was foreseeable for him that he could have died that way. He said it. And then he trails off and says, when he was interviewed, that guy, he could have died that way he said it and then he trails off and says when he was interviewed that guy he said when he was interviewed let's start down

he said quote man i did a horrible thing when i gave him that wedgie unquote that's what he had said he didn't even really know the guy died then why did he call 9-1-1 right if he didn't know he died the attorney also said he was just tired of taking it he'd been bullied all his life by this guy so it's wedgie time he asked the judge please please give brad a second chance a second chance thank you second chance brad quote, I never had any intention of killing that man. He was on the stand. He had to. Well, it was for sentencing.

Oh, yeah. He said anything to say for yourself. And he's got it. Yeah. He's back. I mean, that's a big 35 years or four years is a big difference. You better get up there and say the right fucking thing. I'll tell you what.

Yeah. I'd be like Shakespeare. I'd be writing something. He said, there's no way I ever thought that could have happened. He said that he only intended to embarrass his stepfather, called him a bully, said he was been a bully my whole life. I just wanted to embarrass him and finally get what he deserved. Ass of his underwear on his face.

And then he said, quote, the fight ended with Mr. St. Clair face down, passed out after the fight out of anger from the the fight, with no excuse, I pulled up Mr. St. Clair's underwear up over his head. In a suit, to a judge. Up over his head. I have no good reason to explain this. All I can say is I'm so sorry

and ashamed of my actions. I truly loved and respected Mr. St. Clair. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. He was always my friend friend he's lawyered literally was up five minutes before that go and he bullied him all his life and he finally snapped and he couldn't take it anymore now he's like he was my friend i truly loved and respect what are you talking about at least at least fucking work to figure it out together collate what you're

gonna say has some consistency yeah jesus christ so the judge here this is uh judge john g canavan uh junior of course he said that he was concerned the main thing he said i could buy a lot of what you're saying i could see it denver seems like a he's a physically imposing guy yeah he's a physically aggressive guy you're both physically aggressive guys the thing that bothers me and disturbs me a lot is that you took photographs on your cell phone of a man as he was gurgling in his and dying yeah as he was in his last stages of life where he could have maybe been helped right with you know resuscitation or something instead you took cell phone photos of that uh that a little bit there and then he said i don't even think you beat him with your fists based on the what was going on with your fists that night and the blows to the head because it wasn't one it was multiple blows to the head that they ended up finding he said i think you got some kind of

object i think you you did this i think you bashed his skull in i think you had some kind of object and you beat his skull and that's why there's blood spatter on the ceiling. And I think you're a liar and a murderer. Yeah. That's basically what he said. Then the judge said, I think you staged the crime scene. He also said he had sympathy for the family. First of all, is what the judge went on to say. He said that the way Denver died has attracted national attention. Yeah.

And that's not good. You know where the best info with the most links to different info came from out of this whole entire story? Cracked. Really? Cracked magazine. That's why. You know what I mean?

Literally, they had the link to the Baylor story. They had all the good stuff there. Is this an ass magazine? No, Cracked is the mad knockoff. I know. The go-bot of magazines. Are they trying to be just an ass magazine because No, Cracked is the mad knockoff. I know. The go-bot of magazines. Are they trying to be just an ass magazine because it's got a crack? I feel like everybody just had any kind of joke writing.

This had to have come up. It was a thing. He said, quote, I'm fully aware of the jokes and the way people have talked about it around town. It's a real skid mark on our town. It's a Blackberry skid mark on our town it's a blackberry skid mark on our town and he says you sir yeah may fuck off 30 years in prison holy shit he banged him with hard that is a very stiff that is an atomic wedgie of a sentence a wedgie would have been 15 the atomic is 30 over the head and everything he said wow he said the judge did say though he's gonna reconsider his decision

at a review i don't know if he was just too emotionally overcome from the wedgie science that's a man that's had a wedgie before he's just taking it out on him he's like yeah that's right he used to fuck with me in school take that that, football team. Wait, hold on. Wait, maybe I'm going to revisit this in 18 months when my emotions calm down. I'm going to go through some therapy. All of these memories stop flooding back to me. That's what I'm going to do here. He said he urges Brad to take advantage of the self-help programs in prison and said, quote, we'll see how well you do.

We'll discuss it later now brad being a guy who calls his own brother a race traitor and being in an oklahoma prison could you think he was going to go to prison and better himself or do you think he's going to go to prison and have fucking lightning bolts on his neck in about three fucking seconds on day one there's a clover in his ear for sure i'm not saying that's alleged and everybody i going to guess that there's some shit going on. He's going to fit right in. He's going to find his people. Now there's a Facebook page called For the Love of Denver St. Clair.

This is put up by the family as a pure tribute page and everything, but it sounds like a joke. For the Love of Denverver st claire sounds like tell us your wedgie stories that's a page for wedgie stories to be told yeah i got one so bad in the fourth grade that man i'll tell you what still taste baby that's right god damn it jesus i'm still picking cotton out of my asshole so uh this is a called a place to share memories and pictures of an awesome guy denver st claire And following his death, this memorial page went up, and there's all sorts of pictures of him riding his motorcycles and all that kind of thing. His niece, Tanya Renee Lester Dawson,

Jesus God. Wow, that's a lot. She said, Uncle Denver would be proud of all the motorcycles riding in his honor. They did some ride for him. Thanked you to each and everyone who rode in his honor and helped with the memorial service. And his daughter said he was a one-of-a-kind man. One-of-a-kind man. He will be missed dearly.

And that's 333 likes. So he's got to have some friends. You know, bikers know a lot of people. They do. That's one thing. They really like to gather. They like to take their bike, ride it a mile to a bar, park it for five hours, and talk to each other about the bikes. Which is the weirdest.

My brother does that shit all the time. They've got to have my father come over to watch the kids and everything, so he goes with his wife. Whatever people do for fun, I'm not disparaging it, but they go take their motorcycles two miles away and park it at a bar,

and then they sit there for five hours. Nothing to do with the motorcycles. I don't understand that at all. It's amazing. Yeah. Seems like the point of having a motorcycle is to polish it up, drive it a short distance, and then talk to other people about how you like motorcycles,

not to actually ride the motorcycles. Right. Spend an hour cleaning it. Yeah. To drive it 12 minutes to park it. But listen, the bigger the honor and tribute and name we're riding in, the more people will show up that will do that also. Absolutely. That's the thing.

It's so weird. My father, he rode, him and three of his friends rode from South Carolina to San Diego and back on their motorcycles. Popped a shitload of bikes. Yeah. I mean, so that's like, he likes to ride a motorcycle. Half of motorcycle culture most of it is really discussing the bike just sitting around really could have driven a honda there and talked about how you like motorcycles and nobody would know the difference it's really just get a

discord and do that it's funny so um the i guess i just don't like i don't like anything that's a lot of prep for very little yeah you know what i mean yeah like jumping out of a plane you did a lot that didn't take very long a whole lot of work for this exactly that's too much work for me i think i'm too lazy to be a biker so the wikipedia page for the word wedgie yeah because there is one yeah obviously uh a relative pleaded with the editors of this page for the wedgie page to remove the mentions of the killing oh obviously you gotta mention it could be deadly uh there's only been one that's what i mean it's one time she said the media quote the media has totally blown this whole atomic wedgie comment by davis out of proportion the saint claire family have suffered a lot of humiliation

the so-called atomic wedgie did not kill this man. If this were your father, would you want everyone in the nation disrespecting him, you and your family? Yeah. That is shitty. We're saying that Brad's an asshole for doing it, and it's a shitty way to go. Yeah, the wedgie didn't kill him. It was the extra force. It was the choking.

But, yeah, I i mean you have to understand also people are human you know and you know probably don't read the stuff that would be my there's also the opportunity that if it if it's not as good of built underwear as he had and you know that could that could kill you too if he gets hung you know what i mean sue fruit of the loom over this is this i don't know is this is itnes? They made it too much. Is Michael Jordan selling his stock right now? Going, oh, shit, Haynes is in trouble. Oh, no. Damn it.

I don't know. Now, his niece here, she said that she's spoken out to try to quash the claim, saying instead he died of blunt force trauma that preceded the underwear yank um there she said i'm not sure if he were conscious enough to undo the so-called wedgie he wouldn't have he would have been able to get it undone but he was struck in the head with a weapon no one can find and that's true my uncle was killed by blunt force trauma he may have been suffocated after being struck but i'm almost sure that's not the case. Well, he had ligature marks, so he was. The science said he was strangled. So, I mean, whatever they told him.

See, the problem is they, and I don't know how much of this detail the family wanted at the time, but she said that the whole thing is a calculated plan to hurt his reputation, which I think it's not. I think it's just it was put out in public that a man died with a wedgie being part of it. And I mean, we're only human. People are going to run with that. He said it's like he hurt the family again by trying to disgrace my uncle.

She said that she hoped that despite the fact that the story has made headline news everywhere, hopefully everyone will figure out that they aren't being given the whole story. She said the family is also angry because authorities never told them about the wedgie attack until it was all over the news. So they didn't warrant. That's what I think they're experiencing is they got hit. They got blindsided like how a wedgie happens.

You don't see it coming. But the problem is they tried to quash it and not have him embarrassed by it but the problem is you have courts that it requires it to be out but they yeah and the problem i think if they were told about this from the very beginning this is how he died and it was a bit of an embarrassing way i mean it would be like if nobody told david carradine's family how he died and they were like oh he just you know kind of stopped breathing and then when it came out public they went jesus fucking christ you could have told us about that gave us some warning you think uh you you think ted bundy's victim with the bed post uh wants that out there

that's that's what i mean um so yeah she said the sad thing is that the family wasn't even warned about that part we only knew he was beat so because that's what they told him initially and then when they did more examination right by then i think they had kind of cut the family out of the loop or if the family i don't know how it worked but either way they're upset by it and you know it hurts it sucks and they should be real mad at brad for it because brad's a dick yeah you know don't be mad at us for knowing it yeah we just we just found out about it it's not our fault. So there you go. Anyway, so that is he's still in jail. From what I understand, I looked it up. It didn't look like the judge revised his sentence once he revisited it.

Or I don't know if he could or make a recommendation for parole or what. But it seems like Brad's still in jail and probably thriving from what we've heard about him. Let's just say he's probably thriving. It's probably for the best. For him, yeah. I don't know. He's probably probably like why didn't i do this a long time ago so anyway yeah it sucks for denver i mean i don't know if he was a people say he's a nice guy court records and restraining orders say other things i don't know everybody people are complicated who knows we're not here to judge that all we're here to do is laugh at a wedgie that said if you like the show please tell the

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I got gravity things and things with water, things without all sorts of big apparatus that are going to scare the shit out of them. It's not like Bob Marley. Amazing. Oh, my God. And it's just like a regular live show, but you can be in your living room or your car or on the roof. You could have an atomic wedgie while you watch it. I don't care what you do.

Whatever you want. Do that, but just keep coming back and doing it. And come see us next week and listen to the regular shows. And, of course, listen to Crime and Sports, too, because, man, it's cooking right now. It sure is. You really want to hear the Sonny Liston tale. It's wild stuff. It started. It started. So, that that said thank you so much everybody and until

next week it's been our pleasure bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of

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