Small Town Murder - #385 - Lust, Blood, Cruelty & Snakes - Lothian, Maryland

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

This week, in Lothian, Maryland, what appears to a horrifically bloody, but pretty standard murder/suicide, until some very strange evidence comes to light, followed by some kinky evidence... Then, text messages that blow the lid off the entire plot. A cruel, disturbing & calculating plan begins to emerge. One that manipulates some very vulnerable people, and ends up with a double murder, and three people almost getting away with it!Along the way, we find out that Mutton Bustin' has no borders, that strange pets seem to breed strange murders, and that you don't mess with a biker chick... even in her sleep!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Lothian, Maryland, what appears to be a bloody and terrible murder-suicide turns mysterious when detectives learn about a love triangle, pet snakes, and some very incriminating phone calls.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us, everybody, again and again. God, do we have another weird one for you today. Oh, boy.

Anytime anybody's involved in any sort of non-dog-cat pets, for some reason there's weirdness that we know is going to happen here. Specifically, anything flying or slithering. Anything with feathers or scales. We're going to really keep a close eye on anybody with those kind of pets. We will get to that. Before we do, very quickly, just want to say thank you, first of all, for everything you do for us. Thank you for the virtual live show for showing up. Thank you for all that.

Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com to get your tickets for live shows throughout the rest of the year. That's right. If you're listening to this immediately upon release, by early release, then you can still get in for Pittsburgh and Detroit on May 5th and 6th. You better hurry. The 5th, get in there.

If you're listening to this when it normally comes out. We had a great time in Detroit and Pittsburgh. Thank you to everyone for showing up. Get your tickets for the next round of, a lot of shows sold out over the summer. There will be more tickets for salt lake city but then after that the next one with tickets is chicago august the 12th chicago comes strong it's going to be our biggest show ever represent chicago we cannot wait to to do that

shut up and give me murder.com new merchandise up there as well uh definitely head over to patreon.com slash crime in sports and get all of your bonus episodes anybody five dollars a month or above you get the entire back catalog of bonus stuff it's a couple hundred episodes and new episodes every other week two new ones one crime and sports one small town murder and you get them both for obviously all included this week which you're going to get for crime and sports we're going to talk about disco demolition Night, which was at a baseball game in 1979. The White Sox decided it was a good idea that between games of a doubleheader, they'd have everybody bring all their disco albums and eight tracks, and they'd pile them up on the field and blow them up. What ended up happening was fires and riots, as you can imagine, and we'll talk all about that.

It's an amazing story. It's incredible. It's so incredible then for small town murder we're going to talk about one of the weirdest things ever yeah sherry papini if you don't know who she is papini she uh she faked her own kidnapping it's a kooky dame we have no idea why and what she did makes no sense what she was doing during it it's the most senseless thing ever. And the way she stuck to a lie till the bitter end is just it's remarkable.

I've never seen anything like it before. We'll talk all about her interrogation and everything. Patreon dot com slash crime and sports, that is. And you're going to get a shout out at the end of the show, of course, where Jimmy will butcher your name while he tries with all of his might to get it correct. So that said, also keep an eye out here. It'll be out in the next month at some point. We promise this month it will be out. Your Stupid Opinions, our new show about opinions of everything.

You hear us do reviews on this show. Well, the reviews of everything like we've done on Patreon episodes are amazing. like we've done on Patreon episodes are amazing. Anything from an Arby's in Salt Lake City to a cross-stitching class in Hoboken, New Jersey. We're going to talk all about reviews of these things. Things people get angry about are amazing, and you're going to love it. So your stupid opinions is coming out.

People say wild shit when it's anonymous. Oh, man. It is crazy. Even when they put their name on it in their picture. Them with their kids and like a fish. Everything. It's wild shit when it's in the office. It's great. It is crazy. Even when they put their name on it in their picture. Them with their kids and like a fish. Everything. So that said, disclaimer time.

This is a comedy show. We're comedians. There will be jokes. But the story is 100% real. We're not making anything up so it's funnier or more interesting. We don't have to. So the world is crazy enough without any embellishment at all here. What we don't do,'t do though we go out of our way not to do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families why james because we're assholes but but we're not scumbags and that's how that works so

that's that's the deal we there's nothing there's nothing funny about someone being dismembered obviously but the idea of i bet if I dismember this person, it'd be easier to get away with this crazy, stupid murder plot because my pet birds someone was trying to steal. That's crazy. We'll make fun of all that kind of thing. If you've listened to the show a lot, you know that for some reason exotic birds come up quite often.

So that said, yes, that's how we do things. If that sounds good to you, awesome. Going to be a crazy show, obviously, and a wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, I don't know. Maybe we're not for you. Maybe give it a shot. Maybe you'll see if you like it. I have no idea.

So I don't know what you're into, but maybe it's us. We'll find out. For the rest of you, though, that want to hear a crazy story, as usual, I think it's time what do you say to sit back let's clear the lungs everybody take a deep breath arms to the sky and let's shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. All right. Everybody on. Hop on board here.

We're going to Lothian. Lothian? Is that what we ended up hearing? Lothian, Maryland. That's where we settled. That's where we settled. Before we went on here, by the way, because the thing that people message us about the most is- The most.

Oh, you made jokes while there was blood in the room or whatever. There's murder going on. People don't complain about that. They don't give a shit. They say, how dare you mispronounce the name of a town no one's ever heard of. How dare you? I told you, James. So we look things up, and we looked up several.

I did it in front of Jimmy, so we're both on the same page. Several different pronunciation guides, and this is what did it in front of Jimmy. So we're both on the same page. Several different pronunciation guides. And this is what we heard on all of them. So if we're wrong, hats off. A big curtsy and an apology. I don't know what more you want from me. Lothian. Bend over.

Kick me right in the ass. And we're both bent over. So kick us in the ass. It doesn't matter. Lothian, Lothian, Lothian, Maryland so kick us in the ass. It doesn't matter. Lothian, Maryland. It is in the central. Maryland, as we said, is made up of three panhandles. It's a very strange-shaped state.

This is in the central panhandle, the middle one here, not the east-west one there in the west and not the other one by the water there. So it's about 50 minutes to Baltimore, about 28 minutes, 30 minutes to Annapolis. And it's also driving distance to D.C., so it's a suburb of multiple cities. It's about an hour and five minutes to Leonardtown, which was our last episode, which was insane. That was the episode 336, The General Secrets. Remember the general who had that guy? That was a wild one. General Secrets. Remember the general who had that guy? And that was a wild one. So this is in Anne Arundel County, which if you've ever watched The Wire, you'll hear that a lot when they're

talking about the county. There's Baltimore County and there's Anne Arundel County. It's like, oh, way out in Anne Arundel. It's like that's way out there, out in the sticks there. So the county itself was named after Lady Anne Arundel, which I always like hear. You just hear them say it. So I didn't know if it was Anne Arundel is like one word. You know what I mean? That's what I always thought it was, was Anne Arundel. Annapolis is one word.

Yeah, it's not Anna Polis. Whereas this is Anne Arundel, which is fucking crazy. I guess that I guess that Anne Arundel lady is Anne Arundel, which is fucking crazy. I guess that Anne Arundel lady is Anna Rundle. That's her name? It's not Anne Appapolis. Anne Appapolis. No, this is Anne Arundel. So she's the daughter of Thomas Arundel, of course, the first Baron Arundel of Wardour, obviously.

We didn't know that. I hate when people give information that obviously everyone knows. You know what I mean? Like, Jeffrey Dahmer was a murderer. Yeah, we get it. We know that already. We all know the Baron of Wardour, obviously. Sounds made up.

It does. They're members of an ancient family of Arundels in Cornwall, England. She married Cecilius Calvert. He is second Lord Baltimore and the first Lord proprietor of the county. There was a Lord Baltimore? Of the colony, I mean, of Maryland. Yes, there was Lord Baltimore. Yeah, absolutely.

Wow. And this was when it was all English controlled. We're talking 1605 to 1775 that guy lived. They were married in an arranged marriage in 1627. So that's who it's named after. He didn't behead her on their wedding night or some shit? No, not even. You'd expect that, but no.

So that's who it's named after. Some upper crusty thing that I can't even. Yeah, I can't even fathom it. Some powder faced eight layer wearing corseted old twat is what it's named after. So that's what we have. In 1997, the U.S. Postal Service abandons its Lothian uh post office oh they're done with it this place is like abandoned by everybody it's it's such a weird because there's enough people here where you're like there's a population you could have like a town but they're just like ah

screw those people out there it's 28 minutes from a city it's it's really weird uh they replaced it with a larger post office in wazen's Corner, which is six miles away. What sounds more out in the middle of nowhere? Wazen's Corner? Wazen's Corner. Out there in Wazen's Corner. You know Farmer Wazen? Well, it's on the corner of his two pieces of property.

You go out to the old barn and make a left where the silo used to be. Wazen's Corner. Used to be. So far away. Neighbors were pissed off. People around there were mad. People said it's inconvenient. They have to go all the way over there. Many feared the move would rob Lothian of the main thing that elevated it above other small towns in Southern Maryland. and that was their post office wow that's our po boxes holy shit now i have to drive seven extra minutes to

see my po box god damn it they said take the post office away and there's not much left to lovian lo that is depressing as a resident for more than 30 years dick fries i swear to god like french fries r-f-r-i-e-s dick fries let me get an order dick fries disgusting menu item my god jesus christ they're just steak fries real stacked stacked up come on man arby's i know you make some weird stuff but jesus christ i know you have the meats but that's enough i don't want that fries and a roast beef sandwich please i'll make them fuck let me get uh two beef and cheddars and a large dick fry yeah wait you know what make that two you're gonna kids you're gonna eat all my dick fries if i yeah they're gonna eat all my dick fries so you're gonna get more dick fries let me get a fries and a beef and cheddar i'm gonna make a food baby oh it's gonna be amazing

boy that keeps the beef and cheddars together in there. He said, Dick Fries. I can't believe that's this man's name. Sir. The guy, I wonder if it's not his name, and the reporter was just talking to people, and he was, what's your name? And he's like, Dick Fries. F-R-I-E-S, like French fries, but with dicks instead. With dicks instead he's he's been there for 30 years he said he's well he might be 30 who knows he said it's a very sharp loss of identity for those of us who live in the area imagine taking it to your pride because the post

office moves six miles away man that hurts they're stripping me in my post office now i'm just dick fried oh man it's one thing when the papa john's moved but when the post office is gone now what do we have we have nothing so um they realized that it would – the reason they moved it is rather than building a new post office because there was a population in this area was growing and the post office was too small. So they knew they were going to outgrow it soon. So they just moved it to a bigger facility rather than building or adding on to it. So one person here, this is a postal service spokeswoman, said we're often torn between preserving a beloved center of a community and serving customers. What are you people doing at the post office? Right.

It's a center of community. Where you're gathering. How long are you there for? Go in, get your shit, drop off whatever you're doing and leave. Get the fuck out. How long are you just hanging out in the post? I'm just having a cup of coffee, hanging out by the priority sleeves. Like, what are we doing?

Hanging out at that half door. Yeah. They go on to say that the area in Wazen's Corner is a good choice for a post office because it's busy around this area. They said Lothian, besides the post office, has two schools, a Texaco and an Amco station. Those are both gas stations, both with food shops, by the way, so you can get yourself a subway, and a couple of churches and a doctor's office. That's all that's in Lothian. That's it.

Jesus Christ. In 97. It's bleak. Now, on the other hand, Wazen's Corner, this place is booming. Yeah. leak now on the other hand wazen's corner this place is booming um they have this is a quote from an article quote raisin wazen's corner has a sprawling trailer park oh a sprawl they want to put that right up front on the flag you're gonna put that you're gonna lead with that yes that's wow okay oh that's probably don't bury the. Has a sprawling trailer park, a Texaco, a bingo parlor.

Oh, a bingo parlor. This place is practically fucking Vegas. A bar, a hardware store, a bank, a dash-in grocery store, a Dunkin' Donuts, and the creme de la creme sitting atop the Golden Mountain, the Taco Bell. So, obviously, that's a better place to put the post office than this thriving capitalistic society around here thriving there um reviews here there's no reviews for loathian or levihan or whatever the fuck it is so these are the rule uh the anorundal county reviews because they can be just as good okay five. Five stars. Anna Rundle is great. Sounds like she's reviewing an escort.

She's wonderful. Top notch. Ask for Ann. I would like to see more job opportunities given to the locals. Anna Rundle is great. That's the second time he said that. I'm starting to not believe you, friend. I would like to see more job opportunities given to locals.

Anna Rundle is great. I would like to see more job opportunities given to locals. Anne Arundel is great. I would like to see. He goes on to repeat this pattern seven times. Is that right? Five stars. I don't know what that person's doing. I don't know if they're broken or if they're trying to make a point. Feels like somebody needs medical attention.

Like just a pop to the side of the head like an old TV to fix it. I think his vertical holds a little off is the problem. He needs just a pop like an old, your grandfather's TV, you know. Adjust the second dial. Yeah, do that. Is that working? UHF doing anything? No?

Four stars. Fix the damn roads. That's the first sentence. Too many potholes. Needs more streetlights in certain areas to make them safer at night. County parks need upgraded play equipment. Parking lots need repaved. So that doesn't sound like four stars.

They said nothing good about it at all. We just need a lot of asphalt. A lot of trucks with guys in hot tar on it. Four stars. I think it's a nice, quiet suburban area. However, it could have a little more racial diversity and could be a little more cost-friendly. Okay. Yeah, it's expensive here, as we'll talk about.

Three stars. It's a nice place, but the people are jerks. Oh, shit. A bunch of jerk faces. There isn't much to do, and the downtown area is extremely cramped and not worth the trip. However, it is pretty safe and not a bad place to raise a family. Lots of options for schooling and the bay is very accessible. OK, three stars.

This is the whole review. Quote, I don't mind the area, which is that's you know what if you were had a like a next like a key next to the reviews like five stars means it's the best four stars means i love it three stars means i don't mind it i don't mind the area one stars means you know i've been i mind the area i've been stabbed eight times in the last year uh i mind it two stars is the next one i have been to one local restaurant well you might as well review the whole town then you tell us everything about this one place it was a tex mex style restaurant and it was by and it was by far the worst tex mex i have ever had in maryland wow yeah in in rural maryland i'm surprised at that

one thing you have to have cakes one thing you'd expect is a lot of a lot of texans and mexicans Wow. Yeah, in rural Maryland. I'm surprised at that. They didn't have crab cakes? One thing you'd expect is a lot of Texans and Mexicans in rural Maryland. So, no. Jesus. One star is the next review. One star. Biking is not easy to do on roads around here. Okay, so we know the roads suck.

These are one-issue voters here. I want a bike somewhere. I want good Tex-Mex. I don't mind it. It's easy going. People here, population 6,939 people. There seems like too many to have it sound like it's like, you know. That's a lot of folks, yeah.

It really sounds like it's in the middle of nowhere. Way more females than males, 54%, over 54% female. Is that right? All the 45 to 74-year-old demographics are high. So it's all a lot of that, too, because the median age is 41 1⁄2, which is a little over the normal. More married population, divorce rates about the same, widow rates a little higher, but you have more older people. So that makes sense. It's about the same.

Widow rates a little higher, but you have more older people. So that makes sense. Racial breakdown of this town, 72.5% white, 17.4% black, 0.8% Asian. Okay. 0.5% Native American, which is actually right around the national average. The whole population in the country is 0.7%, which I didn't think Maryland was a big hotbed for. Well, listen, they got the Washington Commanders. That's right. Yeah, there you go.

So 6.3% Hispanic. Religion here, 39% religious here. And it's spread around, okay, but the most are going to be Catholics, 18.7% Catholics. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the mid-Atlantic region. Of Maryland. Of Maryland, right there up by the bay where there's blue crabs. Right there near Chesapeake. Right in that general region area where Frank Sabatka once roamed in there.

0.2% Jewish. So, damn it, we don't get to sing here. Last election, the 55.8% of people in Anne Arundel County voted Democratic, 41.3% voted Republican, 2.9% voted Independent. The unemployment here is a little bit lower than the national average, which it should be. You're between two major cities and Annapolis, too. You should be able to find something in that triangle. Median household income here is high because it's a suburb of places. $71,912, which is way high.

Cost of living also high, 100 being regular average. Here it's 128, so real high. Median home cost, that's the high one, $5 real real real high yeah that's that's up there so if we 50 for a house for a house well you know what if you're in the market for one we can help you because we have for you the lovian maryland real estate report report. All right. Your average two bedroom rental here goes for about $1,550, which is above the national average, but not twice as much as the national average like to buy a place. Here we go. Here's a place. This is your affordable option. Okay. Two bedroom two bedroom two bath 980 square feet not gonna lie to you it's a trailer it is a trailer um there's dents in the outside of it oh my it look they

did do a good job of it doesn't look like it's gonna roll away anytime soon there's like a porch and some stuff around it it looks like looks like the park is not a... It looks relatively decent, I suppose. Your house just needs some Bondo. Yeah, there's like eight cars in the driveway, so apparently it's spacious in there. I'm not sure. But yeah, there you go. There's no interior pictures,

which I don't know what that says. That tells you a lot. $50,000 for that, though. That's not bad. That's not bad. I don't think it comes with the land, though, probably. You probably pay a lot of fee. And I don't think the cars come with it at all. That wasn't in the listing. Next up, three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,881 square feet.

So this is kind of your nice couple-kid family home here. It was built in 1955, and then clearly somebody did a complete redesign in 1976 and then said, perfect. Perfect. Never touch it again. Just keep it like this for the next 50 years. If you remodeled a house, as soon as you're done, you go, never again. Never again. Kids, keep it nice.

Keep the linoleum clean is what they said back then. Do not fuck that up. I'm not doing it again. Do not do it. This house, though, $360,000 for this time capsule. Is that right? It's 200 grand cheaper than the average of what it should be, but you're going to have to strip this thing. Unless you want to live like the Brady Bunch, you're going to have to strip it down here.

A lot of avocado in there. Oh, boy. So here, this is just a big house, just a big kind of plunked down in a nice neighborhood. Four-bedroom, five-bath, 5,892 feet. That is a house. It's a big goddamn house. It's just kind of your standard big giant house that, you know, a lot of room to move around. $1,149,000 for that.

Oh, you're paying for it. You're going to pay out the ass for that. I realized recently I am stuck in 2008's housing crisis pricing in my head. I see houses that are worth that, and I'm like, no! No, what is that, $350,000? How is that? Fuck, I'm wondering, man. What are you is that? $350? Fuck. What are you talking about? Things to do here.

Not much. The Anne Arundel County Fair. Yeah. You can do that here. Where they have, well, at the fairgrounds, what they're going to have here. I'm not going to talk about all the fair things. I will talk about Bull Ride Mania is coming. Oh, man.

Bull Ride Mania, brother. that's right this sunday at bull ride mania i'm gonna ride a bull till i completely break his spirit and he won't even fuck cows anymore oh that's right brother um june 10th that was going on that's going on what makes it you can still make it because they're fucking crazy for bull riding. What makes WrestleMania, WrestleMania? They're crazy for it. A lot of flexing and things like that. Posing before they get on the ball. A lot of posing, flexing. It says, get ready for a wild ride at the Anne Arundel County Fairgrounds.

Rodeo begins at 7, but gates open at 5. Oh, coming two hours early. That's what they do for baseball for so you can watch batting practice is there like a bowl practice where guys are getting just bucked off they must kick those bulls in the nuts for two hours before they come on now piss them off a man on it that one don't look pissed off enough uh they say there's beer concession stands, food vendors. There's going to be several different events, obviously. Breakaway roping. You got to be good at that.

Bull riding, clearly. That's fucking bull ride mania, obviously, brother. There better be. If I show up to bull ride mania, there's no bull riding. Bull riding? What the fuck is this? I will riot in that place. I'll go crazy like a bull in a china shop, buddy.

You have no idea. There's going to be barrel racing, of course. Yeah. Got to have that. And then finally, obviously, it's what kind of event would it be? What kind of a mania would it be without mutton busting going on? Yeah. Got to put the kids on them.

Got to put the kids on them. Do some mutton busting. Tickets for this insane event. $20 for adults. Jesus. Kids age 6 to 15, $10. Wait, okay. 6 to 15.

Then kids 5 and under are free. They're like, they don't even care what's going on. For one year of your life, we'll charge you half price. That's it, yeah. They're just picking gum off the bottom of the bleachers they don't give a shit fucking four-year-old um and then service members with id get it for 18 so there's that um so yeah and then there's also the annapolis irish festival is that a thing that is a thing the annapolis Irish Festival here. They're excited to announce it. It's a family event with great music, activities, good food and drink, obviously.

Yeah, clearly. No pets allowed in capital letters. Not a one of them. Keep them out. We're going to be drunk and tripping over them. They have an axe throwing event, Irish dancers. Gaelic mishap is one fucking thing. Oh, that's a band?

I don't know. It sounds like a porn. It does. Gaelic mishap, and it's got two guys on the front, like redheaded guys with big beers in their hand. That's what Irish people call their kids. Right? That's my Gaelic mishap. The O'Grady Quinlan Academy of Irish Dance will be there.

Then there'll be a redhead contest. Okay. Who's got the reddest hair? It's more Scottish, but yeah. I want to hear nothing more about redheaded people thinking that they're being discriminated against. Go win the contest. When you have your own contest. Go win the contest.

There you go. Then there is the Maple Academy of Irish Dance and then Hold Fast. I guess that's a band there at the end there. So get out there, you Irish and you Tex-Mex Irish people. Hit the bull ride mania. Do that. Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in here.

Property crime, right about average. Oh, that's great. So that's nice. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime right is about 20 percent high so really high but not as high probably as like you know west baltimore or somewhere like that so but it's high it's high like their income a little bit high high like the income that's right so that said let's let's certainly talk about a murder shall we or more than one murder here in this person in this particular

case and some some weird stuff going on we're going to jump right into this and come in hot okay uh let's talk first of all uh quickly about a man named anthony j anastasi a-n-a-s-t-a-s-i okay so anthony j anthony j anastasi jr this guy is so uh okay he is born in 1975 okay this man here he's one of four siblings um he's later on he's going to be close with his family because his father's going to live like down the street from him. So that's helpful. He's a contractor. Remodeling is his specialty. Remodeling type shit. And also a, I guess, a motorcycle enthusiast, you could say.

Okay. Into bikes and. He's that guy. Hangs out with groups of bikes or bikers and shit like that. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind the jinx and I'm excited to bring you the official jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to

28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He's got a wife, Anne-Marie. Anne-Marie, get over here. What the fuck are you doing?

Antony's calling me. I got to go now. Antony's calling me. What do you want from me? I got to go. Anne and Antony. Yeah, Anthony and Anne. Anastasi.

So she's Anne Anastasi. That's her fucking name. Anne Anastasi, which is like Anne Arundel or Annapolis. Right. And they live in Anne Arundel County. This is too much. Too much. Anne Anastasi and Anthony Anastasi.

And their neighbor Dick Fries. Junior. And their neighbor Dickie Fries over here. Hey, Dickie Fries, what are you doing? Come over Sunday for dinner, will you? No, don't bring anything. Don't bring anything. Hey, he brings weird shit over here.

Everything's phallic. Every meal, there's a dick on the table. He brings everything. He brings in a big baguette loaf thing, it looks like, but it's something else. It's not a baguette. It's just something phallic. It's a baguette loaf thing, it looks like, but it's something else. It's not a baguette. It's just something phallic. It's a baguette loaf that's carved like a dick.

I don't get it. He carves it. He whittles it like wood, except it comes out like a veiny penis. I don't understand how he does it. I don't get the jokes around this guy. Right on the crust, but whatever. Hey, yo, Anne-Marie. So Anne-Marie, Anne, is born in 1973, so she's two years older than him.

Oh. She is from Montgomery County, Maryland. That's where her family was from here. She later on will be a home health aide, and then she'll be studying for her certification as we go on later on to be a nurse. Yeah, or to be something. I don't know. Whatever the stuff is between that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Whatever the stuff is between that. I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know if it's a registered nurse or an L- LPN. Yeah. CNA. LBJ. LBJ. Just a plain old BJ. I have no idea.

I have no idea what's going on here. No clue. There are a lot of different ones. You're right. A CIA, a DEA. I'm not sure what she's going for here. So they were married in 1997. So, you know, reasonably young here.

They're going to have a few kids, five to be exact. Wow. They're going to pump those out in the next 10 years pretty quickly. Jesus. Going to get rid of those. But on October 5th, 2015, we're going to fast forward to then. Okay? Okay.

So he's 40. She's 42. And it's October 5th, 2015. And this particular day, the 13-year-old daughter that they have. And I'm not going to give her name. And you'll understand why as this goes on. Her name's in the court documents. But it doesn't seem like they really.

You'll understand at the end what I'm talking about. Anyway, she stays home from school that day. I'm going to call her 13 rather than 11 for stranger things. I'm just going to call her 13. So 13 stayed home that day. Her mom called her in sick.

Then at 12.57 p.m. No. Yeah. Yeah. It's afternoon. Mom here and Anastasia. Jesus Christ.

This is going to be difficult all day. And Anastasia of Anne Arundel County. She calls 911. Oh. Calls 911. And the deal is she gives a little background. Not right away, but to give you some background she said i spent the day taking the kids to the dentist then going to the grocery store to go shopping and i'm supposed to be leaving to take my husband to a doctor's appointment right

now oh boy okay um she said you know um that her husband had been up and then uh she got the five children off to school they're all imagine having five school-aged children no holy shit i refuse to even imagine it all in that window man holy shit the different needs they have yeah is insane from if you have your kids all in the 10-year period, that means you have children from 8 to 18. Yeah, that's what they have. That is nuts. It's 7 to 17 at this point. Oh, my God.

Can you imagine that? No. No, that's crazy. That 17-year-old is going to fucking have his own car, and you're helping, motherfucker. You move out. There's too many of you. 17? Good enough.

Get out. I'm a junior of you. 17? Good enough. Get out. I'm a junior high school. Don't care. World's tough, okay? There's four more. Figure it out, motherfucker. I got too many of you. I'm trying to figure it out.

You can do the same. I don't know what to tell you. You're obsolete. I'm sorry. Yeah, I got the newer model here. So, yeah, she then takes her daughter, one of her not 13 her other daughter um to a dentist appointment and to school she says she returned home where 13 was homesick from school and then she and 13 went to the grocery store okay i presume to get eggo waffles so chicken and chicken

noodle and chicken noodle so she's not that sick, apparently. Right. Clearly, if she's happy to go to the grocery store, she picked her up just to go there. So Ann says she got home from the grocery store and she tried to wake up Antony over here because he was napping in bed because he had a doctor's appointment. So she was not able to wake him up. And then she looked over and saw a handgun next to her. Okay. And she picked up the phone and called 911 right away.

She grabbed her phone, her cell phone, calls 911. Oh, my God, there's something wrong here. Okay. Is there blood? Well, that's the thing. They say they're going to ask her all this. She says, quote, but he's not responding at all, and he's got his gun laying next to him in the bed. So that's a bad sign.

911 says, do you think he shot himself? And she said, I don't know. I didn't turn the lights on in the room. Oh. So, okay. shot himself and she said i don't know i didn't turn the lights on in the room oh so i this okay i get that it's dark in the room but how many rooms in your house at one o'clock in the afternoon even with no lights on curtains drawn is it you can't see anything you wouldn't see like blood on your bed sheets you know i'm sorry your blackout curtains they are amazing i would like whatever hotels we go to needs to talk to this lady and find out what she's using because none of them are as good as

this yeah this is crazy so uh she doesn't turn the lights on but she saw the gun somehow laying there but not yeah how do you not see blood but you can see a gun i don't know one little beam of light from the hallway shown off the right on the right, a gleaming and glittering off the gun here. So they said later you could tell she's like calm on the 911 call. Not frantic. She's just like, you know, I don't know. I didn't turn the lights on in the room. It's very going to look because I hear that fucks you up.

Yeah, it sounds gross in case there's gross shit. I don't really want to know about it. So while she's on the phone, obviously they dispatch police to the scene because it might be something. They live on West Bay Front Road, which sounds lovely. Yeah. Sounds lovely. But they're miles from the bay. They're nowhere near the bay, but that's fine.

It sounds lovely. So they get there. The house is very nice, too. It's a very nice-looking house from the outside. When they get in there, they said, it is just packed with shit. Like, everybody looks like they're all hoarders there, it seems like.

Either that or it's just five kids, and it's from 7 to 17, and nobody can keep an eye on the people. There's a lid on this whole thing here. Now, she's still on the phone with 9-1-1 when the officers arrive. Yeah. Kept her on the whole time. So it's 630 West Bay Front Road in Lothian, whatever the fuck it is here.

So the police sergeant says it's it was just a very rural, quiet, very quiet neighborhood. Not a whole lot of activity down there. OK. quiet very quiet neighborhood not a whole lot of activity down there okay so they said this is not a place they usually get calls for any kind of you know investigation it's maybe an old person had a heart attack that sort of shit this isn't not a lot of police activity in this particular neighborhood so um they said they got there and ann leads them through the house because they said can you show us to the bedroom where the husband is, and we'll take a look. Where's the mess?

The sergeant said the bedroom was not clean or tidy. That was just how they lived. Is that right? Yeah. He said there were papers, books, movies, clothes, both dirty and clean on the floor, VHS tape stacked up everywhere, which it's, I mean, you think by now. 2015. Come on. I mean, are they collectors of some particular?

Are they all Disney? I don't know what's going on. Those big soft, cushy cases, you know? My mom has every one of them. I swear as a kid, or not as a kid, but when my kids were kids, those big, soft, cushy cases they had there, because they still had a few. You get the Disney VHSs for some reason still.

I always felt they were soft so the kids wouldn't kill each other with the cases. It's either that or they know the psychopaths that collect them, and they get whipped through the house. Maybe that, too. Throwing them at their kids. Collect them, and they get whipped through the house. Maybe that, too. Throwing them at their kids.

Yeah. And on the bed, they find Anthony's – they find him on the bed. He is shot in the temple, they find. A.45 caliber pistol is just inches from his hand, which actually they go, okay, that physically goes with a suicide. Because a lot of times the problem is people, when they stage a suicide, it'll be a large-caliber weapon, and they'll have the fingers still wrapped all tight around it with rigor and shit. And it's like, well, when you fire a large-cali caliber weapon and then you lose control of your nervous system. That shit goes everywhere.

It tends to pop out of your hand or at least be like, you know, partially out of your hand a lot of the times, depending on the angle, obviously. But like if it's to the temple, yeah, that's what happens. So they were like. And it's a.45. That gives very little room for error. There's a lot of, yeah, plenty of kick in that too. So plenty of kick here. So they said the the home was not easily searched it was not a tidy home it was not an organized home one of the police officers take it easy they're just ripping out of this i mean jesus yeah what are we talking about here how bad is it how bad could it be? They said, though, the stacked VHS cases and also he had his Bible right next to the gun, too. So his gun and the Bible are right there.

Yeah, I mean. These two things. Yeah. That looks, you know, it looks right. He had some some thoughts and then. Yeah. Ever have thoughts again. And the sergeant also said, we found a spent shell casing in the bedroom near Mr. Anastasi and the handgun that was next to him.

Spent shell casing, Bible, gun about where it should be. There it is. Shot in the temple. The sergeant went on to say, quote, he was lying face up in the bed. There was a single gunshot wound. up in the bed. There was a single gunshot wound. We could tell had been fired at close range based on the burning to the skin that comes from a bullet coming out of a muzzle of a gun. But it definitely looks like a suicide by all accounts. And they ask Anne, well, how did you stumble upon this scene? And she said she found the body. I dropped my kid off at school and I took a young one to the dentist.

I took 13 grocery shopping and, you know, that's it. One of the cops said Ann was visibly upset. She was crying, shaking and led the officers to the back bedroom. There didn't appear to be any signs of a struggle. The body was laying there calmly with a single gunshot wound and a.45 caliber handgun in close vicinity to the hand of the deceased body, which you would typically find on a suicide scene. He did not have an exit wound. Oh, really? No exit wound. That's a thick skull on Antony.

That's a hard-headed man right there. Should have been a boxer. If only he knew. If only he knew how tough his fucking skull was. Could have been your NFL hero, James. Fulbeck, run him down, Antony. He could have done it, Antony. You could have been a role model, Antony.

But no. So this is a mess. This is one of those where you'd like just to see the scene. You'd almost like a time machine to go back and see what the hell's going on you know what i mean like that'd be so much easier once time machines are invented you can really solve crime imagine that where were you let's find out come on asshole you take him in the time machine and go nope there you are right there that's not where you said you were oh look at you stab him. Look at that, you dumb fuck. That would be awesome, wouldn't it?

We'll get O.J. yet. We will get him. I'm telling you. Swear to God. That would be the most fun of a time machine, I would think. Absolutely. Just to go back and catch people lying about shit. That would be awesome.

People always say, what a time machine. I'd go back and kill Hitler. Okay, well, we can't all go back and kill. I was talking about this with Sarahah on a ps i hate this movie we can't if there was a time machine the first thing there'd be would be 20 million people rushing back huddled around some some 18 fucking in 98 rushing back to like 1902 to huddle around a hut in austria somewhere going bring us your baby we're gonna cut his little fucking head off and i think that would have drawn international 2002 to huddle around a hut in Austria somewhere going, bring us your baby. We're going to cut his little fucking head off.

And I think that would have drawn international attention. It might skew things. So we have to pick one person to send back. Yes, it's going to be a whole bunch of people running into each other going, what are you here for? Yeah, we have to assign it to one person when time travel happens. You know who that person is, Jimmy? Who's that? Jeffrey Dahmer. We go back to like 92, 93 when he's still alive.

We go, Jeff, we got a lot to talk about. This is super weird, but come on. You know what? Weird is normal for you, so never mind. Come with me. We're going to okay just this one. Just this one. So we're going to say there's gonna be

a baby back there do your worst i mean whatever whatever you've ever had in mind to real i want you to run wild with it jeff this is creative control full creative control jeff i mean really because i don't obviously condone baby parmigiana. Yeah, that's it. I don't condone baby rape and cannibalism. But if there's one baby in history where I'd say, you know what, Jeff? I'm okay with it. Take your pictures. Put the Exorcist 3 on. I don't know, man.

Try a new recipe. Do whatever you got to do, Jeff. Have a ball. man. Try a new recipe. Do whatever you gotta do, Jeff. Have a ball. And then we bring him back and put him like the day he gets his brains bashed in by a fucking

by some other inmate. That's how you do it. Problem solved. Too good. I think he'd do it right. You know, if you told him no one's gonna bother you, you're totally allowed to do this, no one's going to knock on the door, you have all the time you want, have a ball, make a baby zombie, I don't give a shit. Make a baby dick puppet, I don't care.

Give him Albert Fish's recipe. That's it. Whatever you want to do. Get after it, Jeff. I think that would work a lot. But we don't have time machines and we can't see how this guy shot himself. You can really salt bay that baby if you want. We don't give a shit.

We don't care. I'm telling you, Jeff. We want you to see a blank canvas is what we want you to see. And we want you to just paint a beautiful picture with it, Jeff. For the only time we're going to allow you to do this. On this cute little Austrian baby. So, um,

anyway, she, uh, she said that one cop said she gets back home. Her husband's motionless in bed, not responding. Um, they said,

well, you know, is this, is this expected? Has he been threatening suicide or anything like that? She said he's been depressed lately. I mean, he has been depressed. You never know. They said she tells them that he's had numerous back surgeries and he's unable to work at the time.

So that'll do. That'll fuck with your psyche. Number one, back shit is the worst because you're just like at some point you go, I don't even care anymore. Just kill me. This is terrible. I can't move. Numerous back surgeries might make you, you know. Any sort of nerve issue will certainly make you contemplate horrible things.

Yeah, all that. And he's unable to work too, which is taking a shit. You feel useless. Yeah. You don't feel like you have any identity at that point. You're not doing anything. So they go on to do this and they ask her. You feel useless. You don't feel like you have any identity at that point. You're not doing anything. So they go on to do this.

And they ask her, they say, does anyone else live in the house? And we know, yeah, there's you, your kids, anybody else here? And she said, oh, yeah, my kids. This one's at school. That one's at school. 13 is in her room. This one's over here. And they said, oh, and there's someone else actually that lives here too.

She said, there's a 25-year-old woman that lives in the house too and lives in our basement. She's like our friend that's like a boarder down in the basement there. Her name's Jacqueline Riggs. She lives down in the basement apartment. It's a finished basement. So, you know, nice. She's not sitting down there with a hot plate. Just her next to the hot water heater with the furnace next

to her drip sounds going on freddy krueger lurking around the corner none of that shit actually blankets yeah just all huddled up going jesus it's dark down here just one lone fucking bear bulb dangling swinging back and forth no tv yeah uh so um she said yeah they said jacqueline riggs she's a young woman here we'll talk more about her in a little bit but she's in you know 25 years old uh she seems kind of down on her luck from how the way ann describes her um seems like from the quick overview they get that maybe she kind of latched on to anthony as like a fatherly type figure type of thing. And yeah, that's kind of how Ann puts it. So they said, is she home now? And Ann says, I don't know.

I haven't heard from her today. And, you know, she's not one of the kids. I don't keep track of her. She lives her own life. She just lives in the basement. Perhaps she heard a gunshot. Maybe. So we'd like to talk to her.

They said she said the last thing I heard of jacqueline was last night i heard her and anthony shouting and fighting in the basement okay okay which is you didn't investigate that you didn't ask anthony hey what's up your spouse is like yeah arguing and fighting with your tenant in the basement loudly that's shouting at a 25-year-old, and you're just like, good night. The fuck is going on down here? Put your head down the steps. Hey, what are we doing down there? Jesus Christ.

We've got five kids up here. Yeah, 13's trying to sleep, for Christ's sake. She's got a cold. When she uses her powers, it drains her. She's got a nosebleed. She's got a nosebleed. She has to stay home now. She's going to have to stay home from school tomorrow great thanks guys thanks so drag a kid to the grocery store you know how much of a fucking nightmare that is

she doesn't want to be there i don't want her to be there it's a nightmare so they said okay so that's the last you heard um so she said when he returned to the master bedroom, that's when he found Ann there after coming back from the fighting with Jacqueline in the basement. And Ann said that she that he was very gruff and very short with her when he popped back up in the bedroom after arguing with Jacqueline and told her to take the cats out of the room and go sleep with the children in the other room there. Get out. Not at me. I don't want to be bothered. Take your damn cats and go. Okay.

So I don't know if they're the kind of cats that attack your feet while you try to sleep. Oh, yeah. Nobody likes that. That is terrible. That's the worst kind of cat. You're like, come on. Anything but that.

You can shit in the corner. I don't care, but don't do that. I just threw up on the bed 10 minutes ago, and now you're going to bite my fucking feet? Damn it. So police try to go down the staircase to the basement there. It's dark, and there's shit everywhere, like everywhere else in the house. And the sergeant said, quote, when we first entered the basement, there was extremely loud heavy metal music playing, which added for us an additional kind of eerie effect. Yeah.

And she's cool as shit. Yeah. Yeah. Jacqueline's badass, man. Yeah. Fucking rock on. So she's blasting metal music. It's weird that they didn't hear that.

Upstairs. Yeah. Yeah. metal music it's weird that they didn't hear that otherwise yeah yeah coming into an otherwise quiet house i assume like she didn't have tv going on while they're you know while they're doing a suicide investigation so it's odd that they didn't hear like blasting fucking sepultura coming from the basement you know you think they would they would notice that. So whatever. They said in the center of the room was horror is what they said. They said here is a Jesus Christ. They said there's a blood-soaked carpet and there is Jacqueline on the floor,

as described by the sergeant, quote, stabbed multiple times all about her body, torso, head, neck, arms, hands, legs even. Oh, my. Just butchered is the way he described her. We'll find out it's 42 wounds in all. Jesus. 20 good puncture stabbings and 22 slashings and lighter stabbings. This is a brutal attack.

Sustained torture and then literally dispatching. That is wild. The sergeant said, quote, there was blood on the walls, blood on the floor, blood on the bed. You know, it was clear that Jacqueline Riggs had fought her attacker based on defensive wounds to her hands and arms. The crime scene downstairs was extremely brutal. Yeah. This was, I mean, to walk into this and to have the music bump into has got to be like, Jesus, this is, turn the fucking music off so I can hear blood right now. This is.

Was that Saving April? Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. I need to figure this out. This is crazy. So this is crazy so this is a it's it's a horrible scene i mean they said there is just blood on the ceiling it's everywhere and she is just slashed up um so they're they're trying to note evidence now now because before they're like okay suicide but now they're like what the fuck happened down here now we have to start

looking at entrances is there you there preserving crime scene type shit here? So the outside door, because the basement has its own entrance, the outside door is locked. So there's that. The windows down there are screwed shut. So no one can break in. So it's from inside the house. So the room, they said, is strewn with piles of overturned trash is the way they described it okay which is uh interesting the sergeant said it looked like perhaps he had stabbed her in the

basement then gone upstairs all indications were showing us a murder suicide looks pretty obvious stabbed her up went upstairs and said fine they were fighting the night before that makes sense um yeah um now they said quote when when officers discovered jackie dead in the basement and told ann about it and was very surprised it's like oh my god she said she had not seen jacqueline today and didn't know if she was home and didn't know what was going on so she didn't know um searching around the the residence uh and especially around Jacqueline because they feel like it's you know that's the crime scene yeah more or less yeah they were not able to locate a knife or any kind of edged weapon they believed was used to kill her though so like okay well where the fuck.

Nothing stabbable. From the basement to the upstairs bedroom, where do you get rid of this knife? You know what I mean? You can't flush a knife down the toilet. You can't eat that. Yeah, you can't eat it. You can't. There's nothing.

You can't put it down the garbage disposal. There's nothing you can do with it. It's here somewhere. It's here somewhere. So they said there's no sign of forced entry to the residence or of any kind of intruder entering the residence. They said this looks pretty clear. Murder, suicide. So let's find out if that's what it is.

A little bit of history now because we'll talk about this. Back when we told you Anne-Marie and Antony, Anne-Marie and Antony, they got married in 97. What if this town is called Lothian? Lothian. Lothian-a-rundle. Lothian-a-rundle. Anne-Marie Anastasi. So they got married in 97, had their first kid in 97 and then by 98 i think she was pregnant again

they were pumping the kids out pretty quick yeah at that time they were wow um they lived in anarundel county in a town called churchton back then um later on they'll move to michigan and live there for years as we'll talk about. But while they lived at a two-story home in a quiet street, they ran a business out of that place. Know what that business was called, Jimmy? Oh, God. Dear fuck. If I gave you

every guess till the history of time, you'd never guess what their business was called. Was it Tupperware? It is called Snakes Are Us. Okay. There are those people. Snakes R Us. Okay. There are those people. Snakes R Us. Yeah. I wonder why they got that name.

They breed snakes for online sales in 98. So they're like, there's this thing called the internet. Now, people have been telling me you could do like stocks and bonds and porn and things like that on it. I think we should sell snakes. I want to jerk off a snake. I think maybe some people, maybe it's for sexual purposes, whatever reason they're buying them for. I feel like a lot of people are going to want to buy my snakes online. They had a registered corporate business and everything.

They're breeding snakes. Eventually, this business will fold okay you know it's a slippery business yeah and pet smart exists yeah it's a tough tough to find the snake guy yeah there's there are snake places snakes are us i just see him holding two handfuls a handful of snakes in either hand in the picture on the fucking front of the website i got lots of snakes so anthony over here i got snakes for you come over here let me show you what i got so they had that uh that business folds now when this all started and they the beginning of their relationship happened

ann had an over one million dollar trust fund oh for her So she had $1 million in the bank here, which they promptly spent. Blew through it. Snake food must be pricey. They're mice, James. They're very expensive. They're very expensive. So they spent it all. And apparently Anthony was always asking her to go to her family for more money all the time.

Can you get because her family had money? Yeah. So I went through a million. Well, we need more now. We have five kids. Maybe they'll feel bad for us. You know, it's only 200 grand a piece. It's more expensive than that to raise a kid.

Fuck. Yeah. No shit. Hey, the whole all the kids together. So she said, though, also, when she would get more money from the family he would spend it on shit that he liked to buy like tvs or harleys so vhs tapes or tons of vhs tapes to line his walls with so they had a lot of problems and we'll talk about many of them here and some of them are documented and some of them aren't.

One time he locked her out in a snowstorm for some reason. I don't know what that is. An option. I never thought of that before. But he just told her to get out and then lock the door and wouldn't let her back in a snowstorm, which seems crazy. Attempted murder. That's what I mean. That's not just like a prank or like being a dick that's someone's gonna die out here come on i didn't bring my coat like that's right she's

either gonna catch cold or worse yeah another time she had they had kind of a fight and she left and then he wouldn't let her come back home after that another Another time she had gone to Florida or he told her to go to Florida. That's conflicting which one it is. Either way, she's in Florida. And apparently she wanted to come back. And he gathered all the children together to have a vote on whether mom should be allowed to come home or not. We're survivoring mom. Come on, kids.

We're voting mom off the island tonight. What the fuck? Let's go, 13. What do we got? What do you think? What's your vote? This is... For a man...

I pictured a four-year-old giving a thumbs down with a big frown on her face. Meh. She gets an organic mac and cheese. That shit's garbage. Get Kraft, bitch. None of this Annie's bullshit. Yeah. Healthy my ass.

I want sodium. For a man who doesn't have a million dollars, he sure does have a lot of gall. He really does. Imagine that gathering, though. Hey, kids, come in the living room. We're going to see if mom deserves to come back with all of the money. They skip in there, two little sisters talking to each other going,

do you think we're getting a puppy? Maybe. And then they go, okay, we're going to take a vote today. You're going to have a say in something. Yay, that sounds great. What I need you to vote on. Maybe he slips something innocuous in first. Like, are we having pizza or McDonald's for dinner tonight?

Come on, kids. Who votes for McDonald's? And the next one, are we allowing mommy to come back home and live, or are we telling her she has to stay in Florida? Who's putting their hands up? Who wants mommy back also keep in mind if we have pizza tonight we're having mcdonald's tomorrow yeah then we're gonna have pizza the night after that so did i mention i don't know how to cook so there's that welcome to the small town of chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper in this new new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+.

Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Now all you want mom back, don't you? What do you say? You fucking Benedict Arnold. No, little Tommy, we're not having dick fries again. We had dick fries the other night that's enough dick fries for you this kid can't get enough dick fries loves dick fries just sucks the salt off him this ah he just leaves it

sucks everything off him leaves him just just a just a potato soggy potato on the corner of the plate. Oh, man. So apparently the children voted yay on that one because she ended up coming back at some point, I guess. So five children in all. First one born, like we said, 97, 98 area. 2002 is when 13 was born. She's 13 in 2015. 2015 2008 they have another kid that's the

youngest the seven-year-old so from 7 to 17 they got them unbelievable all lined up here um now enter a young man into the picture okay gabriel ezekiel struss yeah gabriel ezekiel Struss. Yeah. Gabriel Ezekiel Struss. That sounds like we're going to tell a- It's like biblical and like a character in a Mark Twain story. Yeah. Because it's got like a weird Gabriel Ezekiel Struss, like a Dr. Seuss story. Yeah. He's born in 1997, so he's 18 in 2015. He has had a fucked up life this kid really um yeah he's had a he began

having a lot of trouble he was basically his mother's a drug addict um and drug him around the streets all the time he's like he's like dookie basically jesus like he's just got a lot of problems he's been drug all around and he's been on the streets. What a heartbreaking story. Yeah, since he was seven, he was, you know, doing this. Or until he was seven. They said he didn't have the best upbringing, kind of had to raise himself, because mom was a drug addict. And they said he needed emotional comfort, and this family would give him that sometimes. Him and his brother get adopted by

another family when their elementary school aged um and uh this struss ended up being good at music and attended a magnet performing arts program at broadneck high school oh so as we know from if you've ever heard anything about cereal and the you know at hayman lee case and all that kind of shit you know all about magnet programs and all that kind of shit you know all about magnet programs and how that works kind of a separate program inside of a school so he's in that program uh but that didn't work out he was enrolled at the phoenix academy in atlanta annapolis i don't know what the phoenix academy is but it was in annapolis um he left though after a while there and didn't and didn't end up graduating from

high school. Oh boy. And, um, he ended up kind of, um, kind of turn his back on his adopted family after a while and staying just with his grandfather who lived nearby. Well, if his grandfather raised his parents who had him on the street when he was seven, then is that a good idea? Maybe not. Probably not.

Maybe. Who knows? He may have figured it out between then and now. We hope so. Or, you know, some kids, it doesn't matter how you raise them. They just go off on their own. There's always, if you have seven kids, one of them will be nuts. I mean, there's just no doubt one of them will be a criminal or a drug addict or something

that you weren't dreaming about when they were born. There is one that will be the least successful. Has to be. Has to be. Has to happen. So 2015 here, this is when we'll talk about 13 a little bit here. She's described by everybody as a troubled girl. Everybody says she's troubled.

Has a lot of trouble. By 13, she was already attending an alternative school. She's already been through the ringer and mill and out of regular schools. By 13. She can't hack middle school. Do you remember the girls who were 13 and going to those alternative schools? That was a different type of chick, man. You know what I mean?

The boys, because i'm a boy i guess i knew what they were about but the girls were like damn there's like four of them at you know 700 boys and six girls in the school you're like oh shit they're the toughest toughest people here yeah they're they're tough yeah um she was enrolled in county public schools as a student uh at southern middle school uh then she was a student at Mary Moss, which was this other school here. And then she ended up at an alternative school as well. Now, this is just a fucking mess.

The problem is our guy Ezekiel here, I know his name's Gabriel, but Gabriel Ezekiel Struss, he is, wow, he describes 13 as his, quote, girlfriend. Oh, you can't. He's 18 years old. You can't do that. That is, A, not legal, and B, just not even close.

Just sorry. You missed. If you were 30 and she was 25, no problem. Yeah. Wait 17 years. But right now, she can't get into the eighth grade and you are an adult. So, no. Yeah. She can't even test into it.

So, no. It's not great. So, Anthony now, dad here, who, as we found out, was with a gunshot wound with no exit here. He was a remodeling contractor. Like we said, he's been unemployed after his injury. He hurt his back in Michigan. Okay. Uh, cause that's where they lived.

And then they had come here the last couple of years after he hurt his back, they'd come back to Maryland. Um, they said the injuries that he had sustained in Michigan resulted in multiple back surgeries that hadn't healed properly. Oh, so he's sustained in Michigan resulted in multiple back surgeries that hadn't healed properly. Oh, so he's constantly in pain. Yeah, because he's got five kids. So he's always got to do something. You can't just let dad know five school age kids to be constantly in pain.

And he's only 40. You know, he doesn't feel he feels like he's 75 if his back's hurting like that. So they said that was when they had to move to Maryland. And they said Anne had grown up in Maryland, so that was fine. Anthony's family still lived in Anne Arundel County. Like we said, everybody was there. They said he had exhausted most of his disability benefits. By then, it was pretty much just unemployed and fucked.

Oh, no. With five children, five school-age kids. And several surgeries that are not healed. Not healed properly, Dr. Bill's mounting. I mean, you name it. That's a rough start here. Now, Jacqueline, who we found out was butchered in the basement here, Jacqueline Riggs is her name.

She's born in 1990, 1990 25 and when she dies in 2015 she's from Is it Sault Ste. Marie Michigan? It is. Yes. Sault Ste. Marie Michigan is where she's from She is a child care worker by trade I guess here I guess when they

lived in Michigan when the Anastazios lived in Michigan they struck up a friendship with her because she also rode motorcycles and hung around the same motorcycle people that the Anastazes did. So they met her that way. And, well, the sergeant says they struck up an, if you will, like a three-way romantic relationship when they were in Michigan. Oh, boy. They brought in a third. Yeah.

And it was three of them together, the chicks together sometimes, sometimes him and her, sometimes him and the other one. It was just a mashup, it seemed like. It didn't seem like a lot of rules here. It was like Outback. Everybody mashes their genitals into each other. No rules, just cornholing. Let's just do what you want.

No rules, just suck it. Just suck it. No rules, just lick it. Lick it all. And I don't want to judge anybody, but that's- No, I don't give a fuck what you do. You got five kids in the house. Five kids is a lot. That's a tough sell.

Hey, you know what? If all the kids are at grandma's house that weekend and you guys are going to some fucking thing, you go, I don't give a shit what people do. I don't care. I really don't. Somehow that's going to bleed over. You can't. Somebody's going to hear something, for Christ's sake. Yeah.

Now, Ann will say later that, yes, she had, as she put it, some intimate contact with Jacqueline. Some intimate contact. She said she was never a real big fan of that. So she says after one incident, she didn't want to participate in it again sexually. What, is she farting your face? Yeah, I think she really let loose loose with a real, real good one. She didn't like it. But that's not what a lot of people that's not what everybody else says.

So apparently it was going on, the three of them for a while. eventually though Anne kind of stops sleeping with Jacqueline but Anthony keeps sleeping with Jacqueline and her and you know that sort of shit so it should go great especially if they all live in the same house I feel like how could it go wrong how could it possibly go

if this doesn't work how are we going to ever be happy with whatever we do in our lives? Well, then I have to get down. This is ideal. They said, Anthony tells Anne one day, quote, I'm moving Jacqueline to Maryland and she's going to come and live with us in our house. Oh, my God. You know my side piece?

Yeah. You know the one who. Yeah, her. The one with fat fingers, like you said. Yeah, her. She's coming. She's coming to be here. She's coming and she's bringing all of her Breaking Benjamin CDs.

She's bringing it all. So I'm going to put some extra soundproofing in the basement for multiple reasons. So, yeah, she does that. I guess Jackie wanted to get out of Michigan. She wanted a new start. So she came down to Maryland and said, you know, she could opportunity for her to start over down there. Um, they had daily knew each other for about a year.

Is that right? It wasn't like they were hanging out for five years or anything. It was only about a motherfucker, right? This man, he's Anthony with his, with it, by the way, while he's holding his back on for Christ's sake, hold on. Hey, come here, sweetheart. Yeah, I wanted you to come over here and lick my wife's ass.

Would you, Jesus? Kind of like, he's smooth. You know what would help my back heal? You know what would help my back heal? I got to stay perfectly still, so if you guys just want to take sides, switch. Throw two digits in my wife, would you? I mean, would you do that?

Hold on, prop my head up so I can see. Jesus fuck. So, yeah, they were all part of a motorcycle group, and that's how they met. I don't know if it's just a hangout ride group or a fucking club or gang. An actual gang? No idea. But she was a motorcycle person, and the detective later would say apparently both of them were motorcyclists. So they had that in common.

And they asked Jackie, someone who they both like to come and live with them and with their children in their new home in Maryland. So they also said the little bit of rent money that Jackie was paying helped out the family because he's he's unemployed and all that. So in the end, they were like, eh, win-win, I guess. It's fine. A little bit of rent money, a little bit of squish. We'll make it even. We'll make it all work here. The children knew she was there. They didn't hide her or anything.

She wasn't bubbles and fucking... Yeah, don't come up here. In a sister's house or any shit like that. She was allowed to come upstairs and stuff. So they referred to her as Aunt Jackie, the children. I was just, I know they did. Aunt Jackie.

I knew it. Fucking Aunt Jackie. There's always an Aunt Jackie. You bet. So this is how this has come to a head. Injuries, motorcycles, pet snakes, Michigan, threesomes, twosomes, finger banging, fucking basements, Maryland, 911, bloodbath, 45. Motorcycles are awesome. 45.

I'm blaming the snakes on this one. I'm not even blaming the motorcycle. This is a snake issue. It sure is. Anybody, if you have right now, if you're listening to the sound of if you can hear the sound of my voice if i'm holding the microphone like i'm whispering into your ear listen it's just us right now can you hear us if you are married or have someone you live with been together a long time and you have pets that anybody would consider a little exotic, say. Not a dog, not a cat, not a fish.

Somebody says, you got a what? If you have piranha, this will fall into this category, but normal fish. If people go, oh my God, where are they? And they get worried about it. Where do you keep them? There's a good chance you're going to be murdered. Murder's going to touch your life. Please be careful. No parrotsots we found that out right away holy christ if you've got a bird get rid of it i mean right now look to

your left look to your right there's probably someone coming with a knife so you should probably run if you have parrots but snakes i would say just to keep it cautiously cautiously optimistic let's let's call it serve it for thanksgiving and tell them that there's a shortage of turkeys. They're very small this year. Head on a swivel, you know what I'm saying? Watch out. Jesus Christ, man. We're eating this because it's for your own good, for all of our own good.

We have to. Yeah. We have to. We have no choice. So, oh my goodness here october the 5th is the 911 call and the deaths and um you know the initial investigation murder suicide as we see this is the point we're at so over the next few days though some stuff starts to come out i'm here and more stuff. Well, evidentiary shit. Not more weird background.

They didn't also have like alpacas out back. Something like that. Like there wasn't any more strange animals they were raising. They only kept them to fist fuck them. They like to watch them fist fuck each other. They taught them.

We teach alpacas to do pornographic maneuvers down here that's what we do snakes are us alpacas are fucked those are our two businesses and we keep a concubine we keep them all here for um so the police said anytime we have a shooting incident we take gunshot residue uh testing from the parties on the scene um so they said they took it from anne as well as 13 they were both tested um they took her clothes for her as well uh from her as well um she indicated those are the clothes she had on from the previous day so she said the next day she was still wearing the same clothes i never even changed yeah i never even changed it's been getting wild they've been going over my house so the, I can't find anything in there. It's a mess.

My dresses are under all those tapes. Yeah, this is crazy. So they said, this is when they get the body out of there. Now they're really looking for any kind of evidence that they could find. When the body's there, you're concentrating on the body and how things are related to the body. Once they move the body, now you're like, okay, where's everything else?

So they said no forced entry. There was no damage to anything other than damage to things in Jackie's bedroom that were clearly from a struggle. Okay. Whether it be blood, you know, and where she broke something, leaned on something. There was a physical struggle down there. Absolutely. So the crime scene texts are there they said the crime scene where jacqueline riggs was found was essentially as diametrically opposed to the crime scene where anthony was found

as you could be huh anthony was found in this like peaceful yeah gun next to the bible laying on his bed he might as well have his hands folded neatly on his chest if he you know didn't shot himself first and then so there's that now down there it's a bloodbath looks like a horror movie fucking metal music playing blood on the fucking wall blood on the walls you know what i mean they're fucking yeah yeah it's a different scene if you growled that detective's words they were the words to a metal song. They were. Or she said them backwards. Yeah.

Metal lyrics. Yeah. They said Anthony found lying in bed with a single gunshot wound to the head kind of felt like a very sterile environment. Jackie was found lying on the floor of a makeshift basement bedroom with multiple stabbing and cutting injuries, blood all over the place, and the bedclothes all in disarray. Just a very violent crime scene where she was discovered. They said it's very common for the perpetrator or the offender to have cut themselves while they're cutting their victim. Yeah. So this could help a lot.

There's blood everywhere. They're going to have to go through it all. But once they go through it all, someone's other blood's got to be in there. Yeah, sure. So they said, hopefully they can find the murderer's DNA because this is 2015. This isn't like one of our 1978s.

So they're like, get a mop, clean all this shit up so we can start working on the evidence. Like this is, yeah, this is different. They take blood samples from everywhere.

They also take blood samples from Anthony's bedroom as well. So they're trying to figure it out. What the hell went down here so now while this is going on this is taking the whole day so you know they're the hair and the kids are out in the front yard kids come home from school there's it's a crime scene you know so they're out in the front yard um they said a policeman said when we see ann she was with her five children and another child, Gabriel Struss, the 18 year old. Right. Anne makes a comment that he's part of the family.

Just says, oh, this is Gabriel. He's part of the family. Like, yeah, he's you know, we take care of him, too. So they tell Anne about, as we'll talk about, they find a neighbor here. First of all, the neighbor said, they said everybody in the neighborhood was shocked at this because it wasn't a thing that happened around here at all, obviously. They said, quote,

murders are not something that happens in this particular part of the county. So it was really quite a wake-up call. I'm sure. One neighbor reported seeing a man on a motorcycle, okay, speed off from outside the Anastasi's around midnight the night of the murder. Okay. And the neighbor went on to say there's some outlaw motorcycle gangs in that area. Is there?

They love to hang out in rural Maryland. That's the best. They're waiting. It's the Irish festival that draws them, really. They said it was certainly an angle as investigators we had to pursue so detectives tell ann about the man the neighbor saw on a motorcycle and she says well okay um i you know i don't know really around here but jackie has a biker guy that she knows back in michigan that she had a bad relationship with and it didn't help that she moved here with

us and we were both fucking her and you know she she doesn't tell the cops that right at all they they don't really know they don't know that that everybody's fucking at this point the cops and and didn't tell them yet so yeah this is all they just think that she's just the lady who lives the you know young lady who lives in the basement and my husband shot himself so she and suggested that maybe this guy back in michigan could have been the one to do this gonna rode his bike all the way here killed her and he's gonna ride on back so and said she doesn't remember his name but knew people in michigan that she could ask and find out what his name was like i could track it down i could do a little detective work here. No problem.

Yeah, shit, what do I look like? So autopsies, let's talk about that. Jackie, 42 knife wounds, like we said. 20 good deep puncture wounds. 20, like, deep stabs. That is, my God, that's a lot of, and then 22 slices and smaller stabs. So any time like we've done before and we said do a stabbing motion –

and by the way, there's resistance when you hit. So it's worse than that. Every time, in and out. And you get to about 15 and you're like – Yeah. You just got to 19 right there and you beat, right? I'm a little tired. Just take a knife.

Get a big watermelon. Take a knife because it's very similar to those two. Take a knife. Stab it a bunch of times. See how long it takes you to get tired. And then imagine that watermelon's fighting back. It's fighting back and how much of a rage you'd have to be in to keep doing this. They said, yeah, defensive wounds on her hands, which indicate that she was awake and alive and fighting during the time of the attack.

They say when we see that many cut wounds, that says to us that Jackie Riggs was fighting for her life for a long time. Yeah. Like it took her. She didn't die after two stabs. This was like she was getting stabbed a lot and still fighting back. And she's a tough biker chick. Right. You know, you're not going to fuck with those chicks. You're not going to just stab her once and she's going. And she's a tough biker chick. Right. You don't fuck with those chicks.

You're not going to just stab her once and she's going to go, oh, God, and fall down. She's going to go, what did you do that for, motherfucker? And then she's going to try to stab you, probably. You're going to be injured. Yeah. I assure you. She's going to try to do that. Anthony, single bullet wound to the head right above the ear next to the temple, like behind the temple.

to the head right above the ear next to the temple, like behind the temple. They said they find out here that the bullet wound, when they get the bullet, it's still in his head. No exit. So they're thrilled about that because then they can at least have some evidence here. They pull the wound out here. They pull the bullet out, and it's a.380. Oh, that doesn't fire from that gun. It's a 380.

The gun found alongside him was a 45. So they're like, okay, what's the shell casing? The shell casing's a 380. Bullets a 380. So there's a gun missing. So they're like, yeah. They said, that's interesting here. So they did an analysis of this because they wanted to make sure.

They sent it to the FBI labs to make sure that this isn't physically possible. It's a Sig Sauer.45 caliber handgun found next to him and the.380 shell found in the master bedroom there. The examination concluded that the projectile that was removed from his head was a.380 and found not to have been fired from the SIG Sauer.45 caliber handgun. They said as soon as you see he had a.45 caliber gun in his hand, you know that something's off because it's physically impossible for a.45 caliber to fire that.380. They sent it to FBI headquarters to make sure, and they said, quote, we were discussing with the fbi the possibility a

380 round could have been fired through a 45 caliber handgun he said the fbi guy said he'd have to look into it a little further the firearms expert because there are a lot of weird yeah compatibilities with guns but they seem like they're not even close to the same caliber it's not even a small fucking gun yeah but it's so a 380 looks kind of like a small nine millimeter round yeah and it's a 40 it doesn't fit 45s it'll fall right out of the fucking barrel it doesn't sit still yeah um so they asked for a rush on it because they didn't know what was going on with that when this is a huge like what the fuck we thought this is a suicide here right so they said they saw that was going

on they started doing background investigations on everybody in the house um ann's background completely clean no criminal shit no you know nothing like that anthony had a dui okay but nothing nothing violent nothing that would raise red flags or make them go, oh, man, Anthony's a ticking time bomb over here. You know what I mean? He tried to cut a guy with a beer bottle three months ago or something. Now, Jackie actually had a fucking prior from a drunken bar fight with a man named Larry Conklin. She's a bad girl, man. Jackie got in a bar fight with a man named Larry Conklin. She's a bad girl, man. Jackie got in a bar fight with a guy named Larry.

That's what she got in trouble for. And she got arrested. Yeah, Larry Conklin sounds like a boxer. And she got the better of him. We don't know if she got the better if they just arrested both of them. But if you're a lady and you're getting in a bar fight with a guy

and they arrest both of you, you held your own that means you did pretty well for yourself good for you they were like oh no she's going too she's a problem this isn't abuse this is just two people me and dicks um yeah so at that point they have they don't understand the hand the gun They theorize, though, that maybe this jealous boyfriend with the motorcycle thing, he could have very easily done this. Why couldn't he have done this? If you've got a bad back and a family to protect, maybe you sleep next to your gun. That's the thing.

Maybe you sleep next to your gun. You're insecure about your physical prowess. And why not shoot him with your.380? Then if the guy's got a 45 next to him cut that 45 next to him there we go looks like it's fucking done you take your gun with you you take your knife with you yeah it seems pretty pretty decent uh as a theory they said we definitely looked into their history and what exactly was their involvement within the motorcycle club activity so were they doing shit that would

you know make them targets right um they they said maybe though they said that it's also the a lover's quarrel would make sense because of the amount of knife wounds this isn't a right this is very personal when someone gets mugged or something there's not 42 stab wounds because why would you do that this is a personal i'm mad at you and i'm going to show you how mad at you i am type of shit um they said it's a crime of passion they believe that maybe anthony stabbed jackie or that could possibly have happened uh maybe fucking the guy came um and did it for michigan they don't know um but they couldn't deal with the fact that the the shell casing in the gun is a huge issue. Yeah, that's a – oh, boy.

That would keep me up. Yeah. So the blood. Let's talk about the blood. Oh, boy. So they said it's called slippage when you cut your hand stabbing somebody. That's so weird too. I've never stabbed a human being.

But whenever I see in a movie or something someone stabbing someone with a knife that doesn't have a like a protective hilt i'm always like oh you're totally gonna cut your hand bro you're absolutely gonna slice yourself fuck your tendons up the fuck are you doing man jesus christ you're gonna leave blood behind you're gonna need stitches like you're doing this murder awful goddamn consult with me before you start killing people. I can help a lot. You're going to separate a tendon. Your thumb's not going to work. No. This is a mess now. You're not going to notice it until afterwards because you're in a weird state of blood lust, obviously.

But still, I'm a little freaked out by it. So they said there's a lot of blood, and that can cause your hand to slide over the handle of the weapon down on the actual blade, obviously. And blood is fucking slippery. It's very slippery. If you stab somebody, it's getting on that knife. It's going to get on the handle of the weapon down on the actual blade, obviously. And blood is fucking slippery. It's very slippery. If you stab somebody, it's getting on that knife. It's going to get on the handle. It's everywhere. And you're going to slip for sure.

It's going to be awfully slippery, and you're going to end up with a big cut. They said if you think about it, how easy it is to cut your finger when you're slicing an apple or cutting your steak. It's a lot easier to cut yourself when somebody's fighting against you. Yeah. And Jackie's a biker chick who's got arrested for bar brawls with guys is fighting against you.

So, you know, that's the other thing, too. They're wondering if Anthony had it in him to be able to do this. Right. With a fucked up back. With a fucked up back. I don't know if he could have fucking stabbed her to death like that.

If he did this, he'd probably be wearing as much a lot of wounds too he'd have a black eye and you know his balls would be kicked in and everything else but it doesn't seem to be the case so he'd certainly be covered in blood yeah they're like uh that's weird they said the blood that was downstairs all came back as jackal and riggs blood. Is that right? Not a speck of foreign blood in that place. Somebody has a fucking knife on a stick? That's great. That is impressive. Somebody has a good grip, man.

I'll tell you what. So the FBI tests come back, and the FBI confirms that the bullet found in the skull could not technically have been fired from the.45. They said the.380 would not fire out of it the calibers were just too different the bullet would literally fall out of the barrel like you said yeah it doesn't stay yeah it's not it's too big in there the barrel is huge it's a huge bore yeah it's way too much it's big it's yeah 45 is a big fucking gun sure is so um they said the gun that was found on the scene was not the gun that killed him

absolutely not so they were like okay and they said they actually tested and found that it just didn't work which i could see the guy trying to do it in the lab like what are we doing here well it's it's a matter of just math that like yeah you go well this is not gonna right it's a center fire round so you've got to hit right in the center so if it's too small for the bore then that then that primer is too low for the firing pin to hit it it's just impossible held in place because it's too small even if the firing pin could hit it just push them out of the hole yeah push it out of the front of the gun and it'll fall out that's all it would do it wouldn't fucking like a bb gun yeah it wouldn't be hard enough to go out. So they said that they were notified by the chief medical examiner that obviously when it still had it in his head and they said, OK, so this is a somebody else is here at this point.

Yeah. So they find out the name of the biker. It's Larry Conklin, the guy she had a bar fight with. Get the fuck out of here. She got in a bar fight, a drunken bar fight with her biker it's larry conklin the guy she had a bar fight with get the fuck out of here she got in a bar fight a drunken bar fight with her biker boyfriend she's fought a man she fucks in public yeah in public at the bar enough to where they both went to jail right so that's that's a fight not i'm gonna hit you that's oh yeah motherfucker let's go then that's a different case completely that's that's a passionate gal wow so yeah they said um that they figured talking to people they found out

that they were that she basically went to maryland to kind of get away from him jackie did and they said fuck maybe he tracked her down this is this is very possible so So everything starts to spread around. One of the neighbors said, everybody knows each other in Lothian. It's a small one-horse town. It's been most famous for its Chesapeake crabs, and then suddenly there's this double murder there. Jesus Christ. The cop said, there was a bit of panic, so for us, time is imperative. We have to get it out in front of this investigation as soon as possible because now it's not a suicide.

Everyone in this rural area started freaking out. Now they're like calling the police station. Don't you find that guy yet? Right. Don't you find out who did that double murder? Because I don't want to be killed in my home. Exactly. So it's a lot of pressure here.

They heard from a waitress they found. In the small towns towns the nice thing is if there's only three restaurants within a 40 mile radius you could just go ask all of them if they've been there yeah you could ask every store in town you see anthony today no okay all right yeah about yesterday so a waitress said that anthony and jackie had been in her restaurant not long before the deaths. Oh. So they were together, and they were like, well, were they fighting or anything like that? And she said, well, they weren't fighting, but they couldn't keep their hands off each other.

They were the opposite of fighting. Very affectionate. So we thought they were going to fuck in the booth. Yeah. It was a lot. They said the waitress said she was shocked to learn that he was married because he and Jackie commonly came to that diner and made out and were all over each other while they ate. That's just where he goes to make out. That's his make out spot. She said there was a lot of touching and cuddling and it definitely appeared that they were a couple.

Okay. I'm going to order me an omelet and finger you under the table. I'm going to get me a Denver omelet and finger you under the table i'm gonna get me a denver omelet and finger you under the table what do you say girl some biscuits and pussy that's right you know how i you know i do let me get a uh large coffee um let me get the big stack of pancakes i like that and uh what's your cock rings look like this morning? So they said that's how that was going. They said the information was very important to the investigators. The one investigator said love, lust, sex, hate, greed are all huge motivators when it comes to murder.

And they're all in this. They're all in this every one of those very obvious reasons to murder somebody all the elements are right here failure money snakes it's all there breakfast pussy breakfast pussy now open for breakfast pussy how would you like your eggs? And she said, fertilized. And I haven't been soft at breakfast ever since. Ever since then.

I just get a little ornery and anxious. Breakfast makes me horny. I get ornery in the pants, if you know what I mean. So a phone call they get from a witness now okay somebody calls them with a tip and says i you know i need to tell you guys something calls the police a woman with children the same age as the anastasi's middle children called to speak to detectives according to this woman's children anthony was horrible to ann they were saying. Anthony treated her terrible. They said, quote, she spoke with her children who advised that Anthony was extremely abusive to Ann, physically abusive, verbally abusive.

He beats his wife in front of the fucking kids' friends. It's not even good enough for him to hit the wife in front of the kids. Even when they have people over, I'll fucking hit him. How dare you, sir? What the fuck are you doing? You've got a woman for sex living in the basement. Yes. You've got a wife that gave you a million dollars to blow through.

A million dollars. You've got a biker fucking fuck buddy in the basement. And you're beating her? You're beating her you're beating her this just seems like i don't know she seems like an angel to me i don't know i suppose uh so yeah they said that um this woman said that she felt the need to come forward and uh she said she's worried about the children in the home well there's five of them yeah there's five of them so yeah that's a big one they're like this is the first person they've heard from.

Because even Ann said, oh, you know, he's been a dick to me, and, you know, the kids voted and all that kind of shit. We had a fire ceremony. I had to get past the fire ceremony with the kids. You know, that was a hard one. They hired Jeff Probst for this shit. It was crazy. It was so weird. I didn't expect there to be, like, a full-on host, but it was crazy. A naked gay man walked past the screen. I don't know. It was so weird. I didn't expect there to be like a full-on host, but it was crazy.

A naked gay man walked past the screen. I don't know. It was crazy. They took like their Union 15s. I was like, what the fuck is happening here? Is this for real? So they said, yeah, she's worried about the children. And now the police want to talk to Ann to see if this is true.

Yeah. You know, are you kind of sweeping your family's dirty laundry under the carpet? And, you know. You kind of got to be honest with us. We don't want to put this in public. But the more you hide, the more we've got to release. The more it's tough. Yeah, we got to talk to other people. So they said that the last several years had been a notable time for significant incidents of domestic violence that Anthony had inflicted upon her, she said, including locking her out of tried to seek a better life but he would make

threats that he would have a biker gang come and kill her or kidnap her and do worse as we can you can use your imagination as to what he's threatening there you know what it is you know what's going on and then they'll kill her obviously after obviously after the pinball machine then they're gonna kill her so this is you know that's what she's saying she's saying threats of of you know terrible yeah yeah gang beatings and murders and uh all this type of shit so they said part of the reason that they returned to maryland was because she felt like coming back to maryland for work and uh with her husband and her family and her children she just wanted to have a fresh start yeah she. And this is where her family's at too, right?

Yes, it's where her family's at. She's got financial support. Yeah, and just support. Somewhere to run. Right. Somewhere to run. You've got a couch to run to is there for you. And that's important, especially if you're in a shaky relationship

where you think you might have to run away at any point in time. Safety, that's helpful. Absolutely. Yeah, totally's helpful. Absolutely. Yeah, totally. So she thought maybe once he gets out of there and that environment and just what's been going on with the back surgeries and the depression and the hanging out with the bikers and all this type of shit, he'll snap back out of this and come back to reasonable earth here.

So when he said he wanted to introduce, you know, Jackie and all that later on, we'll talk about that. But they she said that wasn't you know, she wasn't too into that at the time. Jackie was living at the home. The police found out through other people, essentially as Anthony's mistress. So when Jackie came, that's when tensions really started to rise. All Ann said was, yeah, when Jackie came, that's when tensions really started to rise. All Ann said was, yeah, when Jackie came, that was when tensions got more into that. Are you telling me, James, that if you're married and you introduce a third, things can get difficult? Weird, right? And keep them in the house? Yeah.

You're telling me you got a marriage that ain't quite working hey and you add another person here's a chick um hey babe yeah um i'm gonna bring this chicken she's like 17 years younger than you i'm gonna fuck her in the house cool try that guys you know how our personalities aren't quite meshing let's add another personality yeah let's add one in there my personality will be better because i'll be happier after fucking her so and yours will be worse because you're gonna feel you know shame and embarrassment and and less of a person i'm gonna make you watch i'm gonna make you watch so you're not gonna like it at all holy fuck the balls on this fucking guy i can't imagine and then he ow my back hurts fuck out of here with that

i threw out my back in my mistress i wonder where he got his injuries from fucking i think i threw out my back in this girl who beats up men in public bars. Jesus fucking Christ. Oh, although also we're broke cause I blew through all your money, but my motorcycle's very shiny. Good. Good news.

Bad news. The Chrome cards all paid up. Bad news is we're dead broke. Good news is, have you seen the pipes on this thing if you haven't seen them have a listen yeah it's they're pretty good just gonna say just gonna say pretty pretty fucking good the fucking arrogance i can't imagine he's got sack this guy i'll give him so no back all, all sack. All sack. No back, all sack's his motto. They bring Ann in, and then they bring Ann and 13 in as well because she was home.

Yeah. Well, she was with mom all day. She was with mom, and then she was home when this went down. The other kids were at school. So see maybe what they would have heard and what they would have seen and all that kind of thing here. See maybe what they would have heard and what they would have seen and all that kind of thing here. Anne tells the cops just a little bit about where she was and then she talks about the abuse a little bit. The detective said, quote, what's the worst threat he ever made toward you?

Oh, God, brace yourself. She's talking about threats. She said, held a gun to my head and told me to get out of his house. Okay. I mean, that's a threat. You don't hold guns to people's heads generally. That's not great. But I mean, the other one was I'll call a bunch of guys to do worse. To kidnap you and take you apart.

Do horrible things to you. Yeah, that was a threat if you did something. But this is held a gun, told me to get out of his house. They said, when was that? And she said, that would have been a couple did something. But this is held a gun, told me to get out of his house. They said, when was that? And she said, that would have been a couple months ago. Oh, very recent. So that was the recent. That was the most that they were asking kind of for more recently.

Well, that's also the worst. And she's saying it's escalated because that was recent. So they said, OK. She said, and I'm told by him if I ever tell the police about it, i ever tell anybody about it he's going to kill me and whomever i tell oh so so now if you tell people you're putting them in danger not just yes you're you're basically the grim reaper now going around with the story when you touch them with it they're gonna that's how it goes. Yeah. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I don't know what's going on here. That's a terrible threat, though. It's an awful threat. That's a terrible threat, though. It's a doffle threat. That sounds god-awful here.

The sergeant here, the detective, said, quote, very controlling relationship is what she described, but also, by some accounts, a caring, loving, nurturing father. It just depended on who you talked to, and the children respected and loved him as well, they said, even though they also said that they made they had to vote on whether their mom was coming back or not so um now at this is when they find out that you know jacqueline wasn't really a house guest they knew it from other

people but this is when and they had anwings they had ideas they were well yeah this something's going on 17 year old certainly fucking knew yeah well maybe when they were going around uh getting blood samples and shit they found some jizz too probably you know what i'm saying they probably found some stains so they said um uh the detective said quote i have to ask you this question and you know what's coming here yeah do you think that your husband and jacqueline were messing around he's breaching it like listen i know this isn't a pleasant subject yeah she said she said quote oh i know they were oh for sure i i've seen it i mean it's yeah i've been i've been there literally i smelled it i watched it i it. The detective said they were. Okay, and how do you know they were?

And Ann said, because he'd spend most, well, not most, but he'd spend a lot of nights down there with the doors locked, like a lot of them. Oh, God. They said essentially he was living in the basement with Jackie, and then he wasn't ever seen. Playing Pinochle. Yeah. No, they're not. Yeah, you know, the 25-year-old biker chick in the basement, you're down there for fucking. There's no.

For sure. Yeah, it's not just some emotional support you guys are getting into together. We're not watching all these VHS tapes. Maybe. There's porn in them. So the detective said, did you ever confront him about it? Which is a very good question to ask. That's a good question.

She said, listen to this. Wow. Quote, I was told that basically to mind my own business. How? Listen, I realized I'm your husband and this is your house, but mind your own fucking business where I put my dick in your house. Okay. What? Has he? What is Has he listened to you?

What is her business? Yeah. Listen, that's our number one thing. And mind your fucking business, all right? Italians go to that right away, even when it makes no sense whatsoever. Are you fucking hurt? Mind your own business. Mind your own business.

You're at a DUI stop and they're like, you had any drinks tonight? Mind your fucking business. Well, this is kind of the whole purpose of what i'm doing yeah i know what i'm doing here that's kind of what's going on here mind your own business she was told which is the ballsiest statement anyone's ever made to their wife and for her to do it is is it kind is it is it what is that i don't know what that is. I can't put my finger on that. I don't know if it's like, is it shielding? Is she doing it for her own emotional safety? I don't know if she's doing it for that, but in her own head she's saying, I'm trying to do this for the kids to keep a normalcy.

But she knows. Yeah. Well, she said, he basically told me to mind my own business, and he's going to do what he wants to do, and if I didn't like it, I can get the fuck out of the house, is what he basically told me to mind my own business and he's going to do what he wants to do. And if I didn't like it, I can get the fuck out of the house is what he told her. Literally, that's the quote. I can get the fuck on out of the house. You don't like it?

Doors that way. Enjoy. I can get the fuck right out of the house. Right on out of the house. Imagine saying that to the broad. Yeah. Hey, I'm banging this broad broad you don't like it you can get the fuck on out of my house there's the door turn the tv up if you're hearing screams i don't know what to tell you well i'm gonna have to tell that to a cop in the future

go ahead and keep that in the old memory bank and she said and i'm not going to abandon my kids and leave them in that kind of situation yeah no take them with you if probably um they said was there any jealousy in this whole thing and she says not really jealousy just kind of um didn't like the way the arrangement was she said so i would regularly tell him she needs to get out if you're going to stay with her then you can both get out why are you here in the house if you don't want to be with me you two can just pack up and go okay overall apprehension and uh rejecting of this plan rejecting of the plan but then also allowing it and because at the end of the day he's banging her in the locked door basement while you're up in the stairs and it's going on so it's happening every day he's like all right fine i'll

be in the basement if you need me yeah no shit so they they she readily submits to a gunpowder test gets her cheeks swabbed for dna yeah by the way she says quote does it matter if i'm yawning during this that often changes your dna and yes your dna will come up way different during a yawn that's a that's a big one this is the dna of a yawning person so i don't think that this person murdered all these people in a lot of rape cases we're like i don't know if this is either a match to you or the real rapist coughed while he jizzed. Either one. We're not sure which one. The position of your mouth oftentimes comes into question.

When we take your DNA sample, Mr. Possible Rapist, can you make sure to moan as if you're coming? Yeah. Can you do that? Okay. That's better. Oh, Ann, you're so sweet. She is a sweetheart here. So she gives them her cell phone.

They like to look over that in 2015. And she straps her cell phone in for a polygraph. Oh, boy. She's ready to do it all here. Her answers are simple and direct. They said Ann was extremely cooperative during the initial interview. Every question she had, we had. She did not hesitate to answer.

So, seems normal. In the next room, they're talking to 13. Yeah. They got 13 here, and they said, quote, the 13-year-old was extremely distraught by the death of her father. No shit. Sure, yeah.

Yeah, you think? I mean... I can't imagine. Find a 13-year-old, kill their father, see shit. Sure, yeah. Yeah, you think? I mean... I can't imagine. Find a 13-year-old, kill their father, see how they react to it. Not well. Don't do that.

Don't. Don't. Don't literally do that. That's terrible advice. That's going a little out of your way for a sociological experiment to see how they react to it. I think you can imagine.

You can imagine. Sad is what we're getting at so a little broken up a little more broken up about it so they said she was quote very erratic and at one point tried to run out of our building just tried to get up and run away oh my uh the sergeant said it was a lot of trauma for her yeah yeah it's that seems like a lot and this is the one that's already got plenty of issues because she can't even get through a public school eighth grade right yeah yeah she's the one who's in an alternative school um then they found out that the 13 yearyear-old, 13, and her father had a close relationship. And there's rumors that she overheard her father and Jackie talking about Jackie possibly being pregnant. Oh, my. And they found a used pregnancy test in the basement as well.

Okay. She wasn't pregnant, by the way, that we know of. basement as well okay she wasn't pregnant by the way that we that we know of um so um apparently the 13 was upset and didn't want them to have a baby because she was close to her dad and she didn't want him to have any more kids yeah especially with jackie because mom's right there probably gonna piss mom off and then what happens here so the cops take her 13's phone as well they got 13's phone they got ann's phone um and, quote, we were actually getting back a lot of detailed text messages between Ann, 13, and another person who we got their phone number on there, too. It was a three-way text. They got all the cell records for October 4th and 5th and a review of text messages between between this other number.

Yeah. Thirteen and and. Yeah. We're discussing specific transportation to the house, specific concealment of an individual on the property and specific discussion of the murder of two individuals. And they did this over texts? Over texts, Beckham. Probably with like emojis and shit, too. You know, if the 13-year-old's involved in it, you know there's emojis.

Oh, there's a smiley face or a squirt gun or fucking crossbones. Someone says like, stab her 40 times, like throw up face and then like... And the knife. Jesus Christ. stab her 40 times like throw up face and then like and the knife jesus christ um so they bring back ann in to give her results of her polygraph and of her lab tests and uh the detective said this is great there's a couple of things uh we need to clear up real quick he says small inconsistencies ann you definitely clear your throat before you start that yeah sentence um the tests that they took from your clothes and your hands well they were all sent off and ann said probably found lots of cat milk on there what that's the what what why are you covered in cat milk i get that they have cats remember get the cats and get out of the bedroom but yeah this is a very meet the fuckers what the fuck is happening a lie detector and somebody's

milking cats someone's milking cats i got cat milk there's snakes going yeah it's very very fucking wow geppetto's milk was all over oh my god yeah this is bonkers. So lots of, Jesus Christ, lots of cat milk on there. And he said, well, what we did find a lot of was gunshot residue on you and your clothes. Uh-oh. She said, you know what her answer was? I'd love to know. Really? Really?

That's weird. Not even. didn't even super weird right not even trying to justify this really that's weird she had where would that come from officer she had like two days she gave them the clothes yeah if there was gunshot residue she fucking knew it She had like two days. She gave them the clothes. Yeah. And if there was gunshot residue, she fucking knew it. She had like two days to come up with a reason why she's covered in gunshot residue. And she came up with, really? That's weird. Is that right?

Weird. That's so weird. Am I curious? It's just weird. And they said, there's something. Cats oftentimes lactate gunshot residue because i've been covered in cat milk they make gunpowder from dried cat's milk i hear is that any truth to that powdered cat's milk it's powdered cat's milk and you mix it with something else and then it's

very explosive ah the chinese came up with gunpowder from powdered Siamese. It's pretty incredible. Unbelievable. It's wild. That's going to be. Really? That's weird. Say again? So they go, it is weird.

Yeah. You know what else is weird? You also failed your polygraph. Yeah. They said, quote quote you did not just fail it you flunked the hell out of it which is like real bad your polygraph grade yeah flunked the hell out of it he just gave it like an f minus minus minus and and put ha ha ha under that's what the guy said i think think you did bad is what that means.

So they also inform her also the gun in the bedroom isn't the gun that killed him. It's impossible, ma'am. Literally physically impossible. They said the gun that was found next to your husband was tested, okay? Okay. And compared the bullet to the one that was found in his skull. Okay. There's no possible way that weapon fired that bullet found in your husband's head. Okay.

Then they find, there's another thing from the cell phone, a long call with 13 at 3 a.m. What? Why the fuck are they on the phone with each other at 3 a.m. for a long time? Your kid should be in bed probably. Although she was sick. She could have been in the bathroom saying, don't come in here. I'll call you with how bad this is going. I'm throwing up everywhere.

I am shitting ropes in here. It's wild. I'm shitting in the toilet and puking in the tub. Don't come in. So the detective said, quote, we've got some phone records. And that night, you and 13 talked for 582 seconds at 3 in the morning, which is 10 minutes. Oh, OK. How many masks is that?

Wow, that's a lot. 60 times 10. Yeah. Quick. 10 minutes. Why do you a lot. 60 times 10. Yeah. Quick. 10 minutes. Why do you have to do it in seconds? Yeah, because it's exact. What is this, rent?

Take it easy, sir. Yeah, no, it's exact. Yeah, what the fuck? He then said, that's about 10 minutes, in case you were not familiar with rent. Unfamiliar with rent? It's about 10 minutes. Oh, okay, okay. I had tickets, but we never got to go.

Unfamiliar with a gay musical about New York? Here, listen. I was pregnant at the time, and we just never, they just put that on. She's like, what is this? She said, rather than, really, that's weird. Yeah. She said, that might have been a butt dial okay butt dial butt answer but i'll butt answer and whatever and the detective said that's not a butt dial

that's a long conversation sure is because a butt dial you'll answer and go hello hello and then you go this motherfucker butt dialed me i hear i hear shit i hear them talking yeah i hear up the tv's on all right fuck this then you hang up that's what you do you don't stay on the line for 10 minutes ago they'll notice eventually when they go to text they'll hear my voice how much time do you got motherfucker jesus so the detective then said this is a great quote so that's a long conversation then said i love this fucking quote my favorite fucking thing this is a great quote so that's a long conversation then said i love this fucking quote my favorite fucking thing this is bad for you this is real bad for you do you understand that yeah okay so um then they um they go they have the text messages between the 13 year old her

and the mystery number there about planning the murders getting rid of an abusive husband and some young lady that's tearing the fucking family apart that's what these all these texts are about here um so uh yeah and actually this is the assistant attorney later said and actually said that he could come and live at their home once this is the... Okay. All right. Well, I got to tell you this first. Okay. Yeah.

The other number is Gabriel. Yeah. 13's boyfriend. Mr. Iglesias. Ezekiel Iglesias here. Ezekiel Iglesias. Yeah. He said that this is all these texts are to convince him that Jacqueline and Anthony are abusers and have been abusing both of them this whole time to get Stross, Ezekiel here, Gabriel Ezekiel Stross,

to kill there. They said Anne had told him that he could come and live at their home once they were dead. Once they're dead, you can come live here. You can have the basement. We'll clean it up nice for you. So then they planned it out. They said, this is from the assistant assistant

state's attorney quote there was a text message that was sent from mr struss that said i'm gonna slit the girl and bust the dad oh my oh this is bad for you but for me this is a career defining moment this is pretty fucking cool i'm about to get a commendation i just want you to know when they when they play these tapes like on youtube later and people are going to go oh he got that bitch now it's over um so they said so they clearly already worked out the manner in which this was going to be this was going to go down so the cops talked to gabriel they hadn't talked to him yet at all they've been trying to figure this out so they go over to the high school where he attends

and they said, we went to get Gabriel Struss as soon as possible. He came from a family of drug addicts and harding criminals. Gabriel himself was an abused and neglected child. So after school lets out, Gabriel agrees

to speak to them. And at first he's like, i don't know what you mean you're talking about there that's silly that's super silly yeah and texting and then they were like uh you know your phone dummy yeah he's like oh yeah so they uh they said and this is from the detectives and promised him a family she promised him a home She promised him to be loved. Initially, Gabriel denied any type of involvement, but there were messages between Anne and 13 and Gabriel in detail plotting to kill Anthony and Jackie. They even said and went so far as to think ahead that if anybody were to be caught for this crime, they would all place the blame on the teenage daughter because she's only 13. So what are they going to do to her? Right.

And she'll just say she did it oh so is a family that important you know what i mean i guess if you that's all you've ever wanted but you're 18 it's too late for that now like make your own now you make your own yeah fuck those people is what you do you make your own family from high school be successful at something you don't even have to be very successful try your bills and marry a woman build your own shit a lot of people from shitty families have to do that disconnect and move on so they said that um i mean his life was tougher than most brutal yeah let's be honest here but still they once they started reading back this text messages to him that's when he was like okay it's like chris hansen on ketchup he came Please don't read them to me.

Please don't read them. He came clean. Yep. Oh, I like whatever. I like whatever. Yeah, okay. Sure. I know what I said.

I know what I said. Don't say it. Don't say it. Oh, man. He came clean, began to confess the details. They said he identified Anne as the mastermind behind the murder plot. His girlfriend, the 13 there, had revealed to him that she was living and her mother they were both living in an abusive home abusive relationship and painted a picture of a monster

he felt like he was saving the family by doing this he's getting rid of these two horrible people that are basically ogres that are keeping them hostage in this house he's gotta be i mean he's a victim and i feel terrible that he's murdered but the way it's being painted it's got to be a systematic style of abuse that has taken years and years and years to get and to this fucking edge or yeah and just as a psychopath and needs everybody dead yeah or or they're everybody's a sort of a little bit of scumbag, and he's a scumbag, obviously, and then she's also not doing wonderful. And then fucking, you know, they decide to, she decides to do this, and that gets rid of those two. And then she doesn't have to worry about a divorce, and she doesn't have to pay him any money, and she won't spend any money she gets from her family, and she can start over.

I feel worse. So whatever the motivation is doesn't really. For Jackie. Yeah, Jackie. That poor lady. Jesus. and start over i feel whatever the motivation is doesn't really for jackie well yeah jackie i mean jesus also she should have probably known i'm not saying she's a victim but also you have to think like i don't know how this is gonna work with me fucking this guy in the house with this lady is this gonna work out right like yeah still though it's it's you do you feel bad for that so um they said he didn't seem like a crazed killer they said he was more like a guilt-stricken teenager who confessed. He says that 13 saw something that she couldn't accept,

that she overheard her father and Jacqueline talking about getting a pregnant and that she came across the pregnancy test. He said 13 was very close to her dad and didn't want him to have another child. So when 13 found the pregnancy test in Jackie's basement bathroom, she lost it. Okay. So they said they talked to 13 and they said she was young and scared and terrified. Then the second time they talked to her, or no, from the messages, they said this 13 was cold and calculating and stoic. Yeah.

Like, it sounds like she's the fucking one. Yeah. Well, they bring her in and she said, then she was pretty stoic too. She blamed Jacqueline. She said it's fucking Jacqueline. She said she overheard her and her father talking about pregnancies and all this type of shit. So now they tell Anne, they said, okay, we got Gabriel. He says this.

We got your daughter. We got 13. She says this. What up? What's going on here? You flunked the shit out of this, remember? Yeah. We know now that you, Anne, picked him up that night,

drove him over to the house, gave him the gun and the knife and said, here, go ahead and do this. Basically used him as a puppet through here. They also found in the text messages that even the 13-year-old was saying she's going to take the fall for the murders. She is a – She's a gangster. My God. So this is why we're not saying her name because she's only 13 and we

don't know what the future is going to hold and we don't really want to i don't know so that i feel like this is not her fault i mean she's obviously manipulated she's 13 years old i don't even she can't even consent to fucking this guy never mind masterminding a you know it feels like mom had feelings of what she wanted done and the daughter just blurted some shit out after seeing that pregnancy test, and it validated and justified everything mom felt, and she was just like, how do we do it? Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Unbelievable. They said that 13 and mom, 13 and Ann picked up Gabriel. He hung out in the backyard for hours until everybody went to sleep.

Oh, my. Until the out in the backyard for hours until everybody went to sleep. Oh my. Until the middle of the night. Maryland State's attorney said, quote, Ms. Anastasi, meaning Ann, is there in the kitchen where she meets him, meaning Gabriel, says she hands him the.380 caliber handgun that he would use later on in the evening. He had

the gun in his hoodie pocket and he had the knife in his hand when he went downstairs to where Ms. Riggs was sleeping. Jackie. Jackie was asleep in her bed when she was attacked and she awoke to being stabbed and started fighting back. Yeah. So, and this kid's never done this before. He's an 18-year-old. She fights adult bikers.

That's what I mean. The knife barely evens it up. Yeah. Jesus Christ. So they said a grand total of 42 injuries and Mr. Struss made it clear that he didn't leave the basement until he was certain that she had passed away. My God. That's what he was down

there to do. He comes back upstairs and they said Gabriel then takes the handgun and fires a single round into Mr. Anastasi's temple they say the uh the 13 year old daughter then takes him home how the fuck does that happen she can drive apparently she drive maybe she just got on her hog actually it's a come on get on she run dad's fat boy over what What the fuck? That is incredible. Is happening there.

Wow. Okay. Anyway, she takes him home. Yeah. While they're away, that's when Ann comes in, puts the.45 next to the thing. She just thought it was all the same. She thought it was the same type of gun. She just thinks guns are guns.

It's all good. It's a was the same type of gun. She just thinks guns are guns. It's all good. It's a gun. There's a gun. Yeah. The next morning, Ann and her daughter wake up, got up, ate breakfast, got dressed, took a shower. Dad's dead in the bedroom. Slaughter scene downstairs. You know.

Why does Ann have gunpowder residue on her? Oh, that lasts a couple days. Even if you take a shower, you can't get that off. So, wait. I mean, she's the one that fired the shot not him i apparently she fired a shot yeah that's what they're saying but he says he did it so okay i don't understand what's going on he's she's got gunpowder residue on her clothes and hands she was there she had to be the one that fired it well if they if the gun is fired and then she takes it right after that is she gonna get maybe that could be i don't fucking know i'm not i don't know scientifically yeah somehow or another

she held a fired weapon she held something that yeah so they're all arrested uh-huh including 13 yeah they bring them all in um they said well who do you think's the mastermind and the prosecutor said absolutely ann anastasi anastasi clearly obviously think's the mastermind and the prosecutor said absolutely Ann Anastasi clearly obviously she's the mom she maintains her innocence how? this is all lies I want to go to trial

how dare you oh yeah I'm going to trial they're accusing me of some bullshit yes I know there's text messages with me clearly saying what I'm doing how it happened and everything like that but i'm still fighting it it's not i didn't do it powder residue on me and a dead man with a wasn't me his head yeah babe you've got bigger balls than a man who steals money and hides a woman in the basement that she fucks all the time picture this dead girl in the basement residue all over your clothes it wasn't me it's about that's what she's

got she's a fucking shaggy song now yeah it's it's that ridiculous unbelievable it's fucking ridiculous man um too much so they said they talked to her again they said miss anastasi presented with all the facts and evidence against her, still completely denied her involvement in the case. That's a woman that says, really? Really? Wow. Wow, really? She pins the entire incident on Gabriel Struss and calls him a delusional, drug-addicted person

who comes from a bad background. Okay. That's a fascinating stance, dear. Type of person you could get to kill your fucking enemies and with just the promise of living there afterwards um wow uh they said so um she says that basically gabriel's a liar that's what they said so this is uh obviously pretty pretty fucking stupid here they said they there had been an orchestrated plan in place to have Mr. Strauss come over to the Anastasi home the night of the incident and commit the murder of Miss Riggs. Both

13 and Gabriel accepted responsibility for their involvement and did not. Anne Anastasi maintained that she was the victim throughout this whole incident. Incredible. Yep. She painted a picture of a very

abusive relationship between her and her husband um but yeah so she came back um and as well as her teenage daughter 13 came back positive for gsr residue really so it must be in the handling it's got to be yeah um they were or they could have been in close. They said they were somewhere in close proximity when he was shot. So what, did they all go and huddle around him while he was sleeping and shoot him in the head together? That is brave, man. That is insanity. How do you get three people in the room with a sleeping man and expect him to stay asleep? Painkillers?

Maybe. Back pillows? Oh, man, that's a great thought. He's got to be on something, right? He's got to be on something. Two surgeries and back pain and being a biker. He's on something. The only way I'm missing that there are people in the room is if I have substance in me.

If I'm sober and fall asleep, you open my door and I'm awake. I'm popping up. What's happening? Who the fuck is it? What do you want? I'm vulnerable in here. What's going on? I got my machete in my hand.

Hey, what's happening? So, yeah, this is wild. So then 10 days after the murders, they start talking about charging all three of them with first degree murder. Wow. Okay. The arrests come up here, and they said, we have two people dead, we have three in jail, and we have four children who lost both parents and a sibling. Oh, God. have two people dead we have three in jail and we have four children who lost both parents and a sibling all because of lust and sex and love and hatred said the county police spokeswoman uh that's what fueled this whole fire yeah that's right lust and sex and love and hatred should be the name of this episode yeah they said cases like this are very rare this case could have very easily been

construed as a murder suicide but with the due diligence of the first responding patrol officers and the detectives that investigated the case, we were able to determine that the evidence just did not add up. They did do a very good job here. They did, yeah. I will say, crime scene-wise and everything, they kept their shit together. The game warden didn't come traipsing through the blood or anything. Nothing weird like that. They went right to text and were like, Yahtzee, done deal. Wrap it up.

Done deal. All right. Here we go. Let's go. Who's getting a promotion? Now, want to hear some crazy stuff? Oh, my God. Want it to get worse for Ann?

How can it? Okay. Between jail and her trial, she's in county jail awaiting trial here uh well uh they said this is uh from the county spokesperson a fairly incriminating phone call was made between her and someone on the outside that we happened to get our hands on it was one of the random tape calls they do oh shit and uh there she was letting her true feelings show this is what she said holy shit here's a couple of different statements from her that were her voice recorded on a phone call in jail oh god quote even though we all think that the world is a better place for him being gone and that and that

her stupid fucking twit ass should have known something was going to happen. Getting 12 jurors to see the same thing is a problem. She's a fucking 24-year-old whore who deserved what she got. Oh, my. That's not going to sound good when played in front of the jury. So much for innocent, battered woman. Wowie, wowie, wow. I mean, she could be an innocent, battered woman and still call her a 24 year old whore. But that's the jury thing.

It's not going to be good. No, not with all the other stuff. If it's just that in a vacuum and not all the other evidence. Fine. But when you got everything else involved, you're fucked. What she deserves. Yeah. So then she says, quote, it's problem is it's not only him.

There's a 24 year old girl who's dead in my basement. She was a whore who moved into my house with me and my five kids. Her whore ass should have stayed up in fucking Michigan. I. Oh, boy. She's calling her whore like I call the daughter 13. This is it's just her nickname. Oh, my God. Her whore ass should have stayed up in fucking michigan she shouldn't have moved down here she shouldn't have moved into my house how could she possibly have thought this was going to go

well that's the first thing i'll agree with that she says yes how could she have thought it was going to go well probably not this badly yeah. But how did you get convinced by your husband that this was going to go well? This is your house, not her house. You're not staying in her house. She's in your house. How did you think this was going to go okay? 42 stab wounds, the number of years, and is old. No doubt.

Yeah. That's crazy. She definitely brings up the age because everything. She's a 24-year-old. She's called her 24-year-old and 24-year-old whore on multiple occasions. Her whore ass shouldn't have moved down there. It's wild. So these are very incriminating.

Super. Yeah. They don't look good. And it just makes not only are they incriminating as far as evidence goes, but it also just makes her look like a terrible person who you want to fucking callous. You want to stick in jail for a long time. So the county prosecutor said it was certainly something that once we heard made our case significantly stronger. Very easy now. Yeah.

She's still saying, I'm going to trial. Unbelievable. You can't fucking keep me down. Ann's lawyers are giving the calls because there's disclosure here. And they fucking beg her to take it. Please take a fucking plea. Anything they offer you. Don't make me take a loss on this. Please.

This is going to fuck my career. Short of the electric chair, take whatever they're offering because you're fucked. This is as fucked as it gets here. So in court, she is going to plead guilty. Well, not plead guilty, actually. She's going to enter Alford pleas. This fucking lady will not admit it. She won't admit it.

Alford. Yeah. If you don't know, it comes up a lot. But Alfred pleas are a plea where you maintain your innocence but admit that there's enough evidence that would probably result in your conviction. So you're pleading this. So it's a way to plead guilty without saying you're guilty, even though it's not great. So she maintains her innocence, says she wasn't there. She maintains her innocence, says she wasn't there. So during sentencing for this, when now she's not innocent anymore,

prosecuting attorney said, quote, Ann Anastasi destroyed multiple lives by coldly planning these murders and manipulating children into executing her vicious plan. Were it not for Mrs. Anastasi at the helm of this scheme, the victims would still be alive today. Ann's defense argued that her life had been full of abuse, both as a child and by her wife, by her husband. Okay, we get it. He threatened, this is for mitigating purposes, this isn't for guilt or innocence.

This is just mercy. He threatened his wife and, you know, others in the family, saying he had connections to a notorious Michigan biker gang that had people that would kill these people. And, you know, come on. Come on. Give me that. You know, come on. That's a that's the that's the that's weird of defense attorneys.

Come on. So her attorney pointed out other instances, but there was never proof that came out of anything that she accused him of, basically. So that was tough so the judge said uh you ma'am may fuck off okay uh this is uh two life sentences okay but um he suspends all but 40 years in relation to anth's death, all but 60 years. Oh. So 40 and 60 for Jacqueline's murder. She receives an additional five-year sentence

on the gun charge, but they're all to be run concurrently. So she's going to get 60. 60 is what she gets. Uh-huh. 60. Now, they asked the state's attorney, are you happy with this?

And they said, quote, I do not expect that she'll ever step foot out of prison. She represents a different type of evil because while Gabriel Struss will wielded the weapon, he was very much a puppet of Mrs. Anastasi. And, and to me, that is more sinister than just, than just literally pulling the trigger. Yeah. Yeah. Getting children involved in your daughter. You want your daughter to have that hanging over her head

for the rest of her fucking life, 13 years old. And a boy who's already got so many problems and you basically dangled a carrot in front of him. You basically open-miked that kid and never let him host. You gave him an opportunity for a better life. He did five bringer shows and you never gave him a paid shot. Poor bastard. It's crazy.

What she's doing too is inviting him in saying, yeah, you can fuck my 13-year-old daughter. You can live with me. You can do all this shit. It's so weird. So now Gabriel goes to court. Yeah. He pleads as well, obviously.

He admitted the whole thing. Yeah, what's he going to do? Yeah. He is described as weak-minded by his own defense and by the prosecution and the state. Everyone agrees that he's a bit not the smartest guy in the world. Very manipulatable. Yeah. Yeah.

And the court had heard that he'd been manipulated to commit the acts despite having no criminal record. So he hasn't been a menace like that. He's been trying. It's not like he's out sticking people up in the streets or anything. He's not Bodhi. He's just fucking. That makes it so much worse. Yeah.

Yeah, he's been trying. He's been trying his ass off with nothing in his toolbox, and you give him an opportunity and you ruin his life. They said he lived on the streets until he was seven with his crackhead mother and that he'd been treated for depression and everything else recently but the judge was harsh too the judge taking the realities the crime scene pictures were horrible so he says quote the case was just horrific to callously willfully slaughter to people. I don't know how you get to that point is what the judge said. Gabriel spoke briefly. He apologized to both families and he said, if I could take back what I did, I would.

Jacqueline's dad, he's got his turn to speak here. He said it's now been 498 days since Jackie was murdered. Each and every day. It doesn't get any better. It only gets harder. And they say, you young man may fuck off. Exact same deal as Ann. 60 years. Two life

sentences, 40, 60, and 5 and fucking 60 years. All but 60 suspended. 78 is when he's projected. I mean, that's if he serves every day of it if he gets does every day of that shit so I don't know what the parole you know

what guidelines are for that sort of thing but now what about 13 oh Jesus Christ what do you do 13 is put because she's only 13 she is put in a juvenile facility and she will be eligible for release when she is 21, which is right fucking now. Oh, my God.

Right now, 2023. She is 21 years old and probably out now. Now, this year. So, holy shit. So, yeah, just getting on out. Oh, my God. I don't know what she picked up or anywhere like that. Now do you see why I didn't want to give her name?

Yeah, I don't want that girl out there. Because, number one, I don't want her out there, but I don't want to say her name and say I don't want her out there. And number two, let's say she went to jail and was like, oh, my God, my family. What did I do?, my family's horrible. Yeah, I feel horrible. She cries herself to sleep every night. My mother's a monster.

She made me do this. What the fuck kind of a person did she make me? And now she just wants to get out and go to college and be a normal person and we're going to say her fucking name and people are going to be like, oh, I don't want to do that. You know what I mean?

I want to hope that that's what's going to happen though. You know what I mean? I hope so. Somebody that participated in a double murder like that and your boyfriend did what he did to that woman? Oh, my God. How is she going to? You were in close proximity. Yeah, of a gunshot.

To the shooting. That murder of your father. Your father. Oh, golly. That's wild. But the other children went to live with Anthony's family, his mom and dad. They lived right close by. So they're near the house.

But they don't have to switch schools or anything like that. So that's at least some sort of. So everybody at school knows. Yeah, well, they'll know. Oh, my God. No matter, unless you move to the other side of the country, everyone's going to know. Yeah, they're going to know. But at least there's some form of you know continuation

for these kids rather than just okay kids mom's in prison dad's dead let's pull you out of school we're gonna put you over here like wow that's a lot of strife so apparently lord they were doing well at last check on them but who knows by now um now gab, while he's in prison, he does an interview, actually, or he writes a letter to Crime Watch Daily, he talks to. And he says he'll always regret what he did. And he sent a note to them from prison writing, quote, I thought what I was doing would make me a hero when in reality it only made me a monster. So many people were hurt because of my actions. I hope the victim's family can one day forgive me and understand how sorry i am he thought he was saving the lives of

six other people yeah that's what he said the whole time he thought he was a superhero he thought i'll come in and protect you that was his thing they need me to protect them she's she's being abused this poor little girl who is my girlfriend somehow this poor little girl that i'm abusing yeah someone like that too obviously his mental age probably wasn't 18 if he came up but still you are your body is 18 you can't go out with a 13 year old so now ann uh is at the maryland correctional institution for women and jessup here um like i said uh 13 will be released at 21 and then we'll call her 21 after that uh the state said um the investigators one of them said quote we hope that she can be reformed and returned to society as a productive member however her ability to manipulate it's chilling

for us as investigators agreed at 13 yeah to be able to do that that is very very scary um they said the detective said they're still haunted by both ann and 13's behaviors in the fall in the hours following the murders yeah they said quote ann was capable of going along with her life with two dead bodies in the house for almost 12 hours. Wow. They just went about their business like nothing was wrong. They said, quote, that's not normal. That's not typical behavior.

Yeah. And with the way that one of those dead bodies is sitting. I mean, your husband with a bullet in his head, one thing. But the other one is. It's almost like a calm thing. A mess. Oh, the other one, almost like a calm thing the other one oh the other one it's a horror movie downstairs it's it's an absolute fucking friday the 13th action she's just but then again she calls her a 24 year old whore so that's i mean she has no she never

even used her name just a 24 year old whore that whore yeah she's just a whore it's all this is her age she's young and fucks my husband that husband. Those are the two factors she cares about. That's it. That's why I think, even though I think that he killed her, I think Gabriel did the stabbing, 42 is just a very fortuitous number to land on. It's a fascinating number. It's exactly right there. So they go on to say that would have taken an extreme amount of self-discipline, an extreme amount of calm that many normal people who feel remorse and guilt or remorse and guilt would not have been able to do yeah no shit yeah normal people can't fucking do that normal people just can't be like yeah um you know husband's dead bloodbath downstairs

i'm gonna take a shower do my makeup you know eat breakfast yeah who's up for lucky charms like no this is fucking ridiculous so that's where they sit he's still in prison till god knows when she's still in prison till god knows when and little 13 uh could be next to you in line at starbucks watch out we don't know if they say what's your name and she says 13 uh leave be scared get a try somewhere else maybe maybe not maybe she's fine and completely. They haven't. She's had no contact with the media or anything like that.

So we have no idea if she's like 10 times harder or if she's like, oh, my God. You know, crying her eyes out. We have no no fucking clue. And I hope it's that. I hope 13 is young enough. Yeah. I hope 13 is young enough to where you can, you know, at least maybe malleable enough still to where you can program that mind to think that what that is, that happened was awful and not to do that again. I would hope.

I mean, I think the Menendez brothers were young enough for it to not affect them forever. I don't think they were going to go murder people. Fuck, they were. No, no, no. That's the fucked up part, too. Did you see that with the menendez brothers off the subject yeah yeah the menendez brothers one of the menudo members the band menudo came out and said that their father menendez senior abused him sexually for years right so this is the fact that i believe that what they said the reason why they killed their parents is the reason why they killed their parents.

But the way they did it was not the way you can do that. Right. That's how you, that's how you solve that issue. That issue is solved with, with unfortunately that's a police involvement scenario. Exactly. You can't just do street justice and you can't,

especially the way they set it up and then act like you don't know what happened and then go fucking start buying shit. Like's not shotgun them right they shot with shotguns yeah their mother too so right you know at that point you start if it's just dad and it was out in the garage and it was like dad tried to put my dick in his mouth for the last time and i couldn't take it whatever yeah the last time i couldn't take it anymore and you know all that guy's taking his mouth and uh you know i shot him that would be like you'd go okay but to butcher them and then go we don't know a thing about it i don't know must must have been must have been the blacks from down the hill i'm sure you know what i mean like tonight we gotta go you know that's what

they were saying yeah you know oh must oh and then they went to, oh, it must have been his mafia friends. Oh, the mafia came in and shot my mom and killed him. Stark's in town. I got to go. I got to go. So that's ridiculous. But either way, this, I don't know what's going to happen here, but I know that Anne definitely belongs in prison either way.

You can't do that. If she did all this herself. Yeah. If she went down, stabbed her up her up went up shot her husband and said he abused me he told me he's gonna fuck this woman in my house and i can't do a fucking thing about it he's gonna keep my kids he threatened to kill me and i lost it and snapped i'd go damn yeah poof that's rough or the fact on the other side of the coin if she walked if she kicked that door open when it was locked marched down those stairs and shot them both mid-coitus, and then called

the police. Crime of passion. Oh my god, that'd be on fucking court TV and we'd watch the shit out of that trial. Yeah, completely different story at that point. But the fact that you manipulated not only an 18-year-old but your own 13-year-old daughter and ruined her psyche forever.

You deserve prison just for that. Just for that. Just for that level of psyche forever yeah you deserve prison just for that just for that just for that level of child abuse you deserve prison and turning that's crazy so nuts that is Lothian Lothian Lothian Lothian Lothian

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I thought you were saying what's not sold out. Oh, no, no. Up until August. Now, that's in November. Up until August. I thought you were saying what's not sold out. Oh, no, no. Up until August. Now, that's in November. I think there's still tickets for that or September or something. But August 12th is Chicago. Yes. So that will be the tickets to buy next.

And, man, come out to that. It's a really nice, really awesome venue. It's a big venue. It will be our biggest fucking show ever. And we're going to take, you know, you guys come strong. We're going to take a lot of clips of it for stuff and use a lot of uh so maybe you'll see your face on there come out and see us god damn it it'd be great do that that is shut up and give me murder.com and also get your tickets for atlanta as jimmy mentioned charlotte philly dc dallas yeah he's on there come on out and see us man we can't wait to see you guys i think

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other week, and you get access to both of them no matter what. Five bucks gets you all of it. So this week what you're going to get for crime and sports and this is going to be funny whether you care about sports or not you're going to want to listen to this 1979 yeah the white socks had a crazy owner we'll talk about him and he decided in between games of a double tetter uh this was a promotion with some rock radio station in Chicago that hated disco. Yeah. You know, disco sucks and all that. To bring all your disco albums down and all your eight tracks and in between games of a double header, we're going to put them all out in center field and blow them up. And say, yay, fuck disco.

Disco's dead and the White Sox marked it. That's right. Instead, it turns into a huge fire and a riot. You're telling me vinyl's flammable people chasing people around on fire and hitting them with billy clubs it's bonkers 70s madness side burns and flared pants everywhere it's crazy shit and then for small town murder this is one of the wildest stories too uh it is called it's a woman named shry Papini. Yeah. And she faked her own kidnapping. She's the blonde the blonde California woman who said she was kidnapped by two Hispanic women in a black SUV. And it turns out, yeah, none of that is true.

She her story is crazy. And the way they break it down to her that they know she's full of shit is remarkable. And her husband's in the room when it happens it's so fucking wild can't wait to tell you all about sherry papini that's patreon.com slash crime and sports and in addition to that yeah that's not all you get also there's a book club thing in there where we tell you books to read and more importantly though you are going to get a shout out jimmy's going to fuck your name up bad and when do those shout outs happen jimmy right now right fucking now jimmy i swear to god let me know these shout outs like you're texting a murder plan to an eighth grader please jimmy hit me with that list this week's executive producers are carol braun thanks carol it's good to hear from you again

venera boone i think bun vanara vanara venera I don't know. Pat, Doherty, and Emily. Vanara bread? Yeah, it is. Pat, Doherty, and Emily would love to come to our Pittsburgh show, but they're getting married that day. Congratulations. Congratulations. Happy marriage.

Hope it lasts forever. Casey Danielson also. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. We can't do this without you. You're fucking amazing. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Tyler Frazier, Alex Jones, not that one, Thomas Smith, Janice Hill, Jonathan, and Maureen Reed. That's in their memory, actually.

Bodica, Aoife Reed donated in their memory. Thank you guys for listening at one point, I guess. What else? Tucker's nuts. I believe they mean Tuckerucker's nuts but all right uh eric guzzo micah with no last name gina genie chase linda guajardo uh elliot thomas sees me sees we size we melinda zz got that sizzle melinda melinda all right jeff henley Sizwe Melendziza. All right. Jeff Henlund. Melendziza. Who's it? Jeff Henlund.

Paul Nichols. Lucas Wing. Or Wingy. Jessica Rapucci. Emma Coker, I think. Don Boyd. Charlie Reese. Casey Furman.

Courtney Cottrell. Laura Restripo. Restripo. Restripo. Restripo. Go slow. Sound it out, Wiseman. Lauren Richards. Amanda. Amanda. Doherty. Doherpo. Restrepo. Go slow. Sound it out, Wisman. Lauren Richards.

Amanda. Amanda Doherty. Almost did it. Almost did it. Erica with no last name. Claire with no last name. Vanessa Glenn. Anna with no last name.

Gareth Whelan. Angus Ferguson. Brett 82. Jared with no last name. Michelle Lozano. Amanda is your black plastic trash bags. It's so hard. It took me a sec.

It's your plastic trash bags. It's yours. Mikey Snapps, Quincy Smalls, Courtney Jones, Dave Benson, Heather Carmichael, Lynn with no last name, Clay with no last name. Did I say Michelle Lozano? I think so. Chauncey Mayuncey mace melaina mcpuffy pants uh edra indra indra purins amina harris trevor richardson brandon cook amy amy bochaman bochaman uh cory west uh sharon sharon cook carolyn carolyn sailor uh melinda

chowning brandon with no last name mat Matressa Countess of Hornington. What? Oh, boy. Candace Johnson Mason, Kristen Marchak, Mandy Davis, Joe Martinez, CK with no last name, Casey Modert. Yeah, Modert. Sydney Armco, Elizabeth Butler, David Testa, todd cravens ashley with no last name d-10 d-10 abate nate abate nate chantel with no last name

tanya armstead james furbach denroy decent jr uh ann chambers jennifer sharon tory clark striker kirby ford misty arms armstrong scott williamson olivia jones lynn uh bornasian jamie jones carol with no last name krho is that a name or crow it might be crow who knows only they know old call letters from a radio station maybe austin aaron aaron smith annie annie bullis yvonne duncan farrell daniel cheatham josh nairn eleanor with no last name elvin lee or lay maybe uh kate moore shauna ratliff oh kalia kalia nichols cali ya calia it's got to be calia right rebecca archer michelle michael Rebecca Archer, Michelle, Michael, Michael Brown, Taylor Phelps, Brittany Katchermeyer, Katchermeyer, okay, Kaylee Hewsonby, Huseby, Denise Simmons, Simon, what? Rough patch, rough patch.

Susan with no last name, Sevitz87, Jason Elias, Sully, Sully, Sully Quayle, James Geyser, James Geiser, Abigail Bryant, Kate Clark, Chris Hoare, Salty Mister, Danielle W., Lacey Davis, Misty,

Missy, just Missy Phillips, Chad Lucy, maybe Luce, Luce, Patrick Doherty, I already said that, I think,

okay, MKC, MK, MKSE, I don't know, Caitlin Brown, Allie Porto, Carolyn Thomas, Carolyn Thomas, Caroline Thomas, M-K-S-E. I don't know. Caitlin Brown. Allie Porto. You're trying to be.

Carolyn Thomas. Carolyn Thomas. Caroline Thomas. Christine Bach. Melissa Edwards. Anastasia Tikanako. Tikan Danko. Kenzie Swain.

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that can't be a real name, Natalie Gill, probably, Jen Tamaseo, Tamasello, Tanya Lavelle, Peaches Bleaches, Rachel Thomas, Peaches Bleaches, that's a fun one, Kiri Afflegate, Sally Vohling,

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