Small Town Murder - #392 - The Face Of Evil - Nowra, New South Wales, Australia

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

This week, in Nowra, New South Wales, Australia, a couple with a very happy, and seemingly perfect life, unknowingly has a plan set in motion against them. This plan is formed by a jealous friend, who wants to live their life, so the plan is to kidnap, and murder these people. The results are absolutely brutal, imaginative horror movie type of killings that leave everyone in the area very shook up. Are these people in jail forever, or out, and living amongst the kangaroos?Along the way, we find out that Australia seems to be a mix of Florida & Arizona, that different people are willing to kill for different reasons, and that you shouldn't be cheap with your gasoline!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and choo-choo.

Ah, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station. And today we are chug-chugging very far away as a matter of fact we'd be soaking wet by the time we got there in the murder train we're going to australia this week everybody very long bridge very long bridge there we go but before we get to that very quickly just want to say first of all keep your eye out it's either going to be june 5th or june 12th

in the morning monday morning your stupid opinions will come. So we're very excited for that and we will put it out on social media and we'll do all that stuff too. So thank you for that. Our new podcast, give it a listen. We cannot wait. We're excited. And also listen to Crime and Sports while you're at it. There's a lot of crazy stuff we've been talking about on Crime and Sports. Definitely head to

shutupandgivememurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. Next one with tickets available is Chicago, August the 12th. Get in there, Chicago. Hell yeah. Come out and see us. Shutupandgivememurder.com. Patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get the bonus stuff.

Anybody $5 a month or above, you get everything, the whole back catalog of bonus episodes, new bonus episodes every other week. One crime and sports, one small-town murder, and you get it all for crime and sports this week. We're going to talk about Stairway to Stardom, which is an amazing public access show on in New York from the late 70s to the

early 90s where they bring on these terrible singers and it's American Idol but talentless and with public access New York. It's hilarious. Want to hear an Indian guy sing New York, New York? Yes, you do. We got you covered. Come on in there and check that out.

And for small-town murder, Prisoner Dating Game is back. Yes! Four bachelors, four bachelorettes. They have two things in common. One, Jimmy's going to pick one of each. Two, they're all incarcerated for violent felonies. What bad decision will Jimmy make based on only their dating profiles before he gets to find out what they did once he picks them.

We can't wait. That's patreon.com slash crimeinsports. Get in there today, and you get a shout-out at the end of the regular show. That said, let's do this. Let's do it. I think it's time, everybody. Where are you right now?

Where are you? In the outback fighting a koala? That's right. I want you to spike him to the ground. Say, damn it, I am the dominant i am the dominant species here then throw your arms to the sky and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy shall we right let's go on a long long long long trip what do you say you're going all the way to Australia.

Fold yourself up. Fold yourself for you. I'm all sore. It would take me a week to get unfolded. A lot of our listeners are like, come to Australia. And it's like, listen, guys, I'd love to, but that is such a long flight. My neck, it's not going to work. I would be in such bad shape.

I wouldn't be able to come home for like two months because I'd be unfolding myself still. Bad stuff. Maybe I'll come and I'll bring James a didgeridoo. No, we're not going there. No, I'm just kidding. You can if you want. We'd love to go there, honestly. We would.

It's just the way it's very spread out there. So if we could get all of you in one place, we could do it. But I don't know if we could do that. So anyway, let's do this we're going to nowra oh n-o-w-r-a nowra it's in new south wales so this is the big province new south wales in case you don't know it has all the population this is where sydney is yeah so it's the it's the biggest one there so never mind yeah god damn it. That's all right.

We've done a lot of Australian crime and sports episodes. But Small Town Murder, the last time we were there, I believe, was 2017. Yeah. Or 2000, maybe early 18. So it's been at least over five years since we've been there. So Nowra is in the south coast region of New South Wales. It's about 100 miles from Sydney. Okay.

So, you know, in the ballpark of Sydney, I would think that'd still be considered like an outer suburb at that point almost. I mean, it's out there. The Aussies do some wild shit. They probably wage war on each other. Well, I figure they get in their pickup trucks with the KC lights on top with like five guys in the back with those hats on and machine guns. And they go through the, you know, romp over the desert there to get there. They'll show up in Sydney, right?

Drive over 30, 40 species of things that can murder them. I was going to say, with tons of carcasses like on the way that they picked up, I figure. That's what I look. With tons of carcasses on the way that they picked up, I figure. That's what I look. Wild. I've seen beautiful pictures of neighborhoods, and I still think there are incredibly poisonous things living under each of those homes. Inside of them, popping out at you when you get in the shower.

All that shit. So, population of this town, 22,584. The median household income here is about 50,000 wallaby bucks. I don't know. Whatever they got. about 50 000 wallaby bucks i don't know whatever they got australian dollars wallaby i think they're i think they're british dollars they're just they're dollars actually australian dollars they call them yeah they're dollars so um the median property price for this town is 690 000 though i do know that about australia it's pricey fucking crazy it's well there's unless you want to live in the middle of the desert there's limited land that's the problem it's it's very limited you know so um so 50 000 is the annual income though and 690 is the house that's rough i don't

know how you make those two things go together don't understand that uh the houses have gone up a lot in the last year too as a lot lot of places have uh so it uh is originally known by the europeans as no ru now woo roo that was the original one okay that's what the word that's what that's what the europeans called it it was originally it was pronounced nowa nowa by the and indigenous australians to the area that's uh apparently the aboriginal word for the black cockatoo oh so apparently i don't know if black cockatoos lived here or what that's apparently the aboriginal word for the black cockatoo oh so apparently i don't know if black cockatoos lived here or what that's not now now we rule you is that what it was i don't know it's the black cockatoo now we're sending our crazy people here to rule you that's

so in 1824 an ex-convict of course named mary reby applied for a land grant in this area on the southern side of the shoal haven river and i guess that was this area turned into uh the naura township was recognized in 1852 so it's pretty we picture it's weird in america we picture everything in australia being basically like tucson like you know it was built in like the 70s you know what i mean that's a wee picture for australia that's when it came about that's because that's when america became aware of australia and we're so stupid we don't we're like well that's when we heard of them i don't know they couldn't have existed before that our our foray into your country was a man named crocodile

dundee or a foster's beer commercial we, oh, that's what happens over there. Yeah, that's it. So reviews of this town. Here's a good one here. Here's five stars. They love it. Good working area, it says at the top. It operates well?

We'll find out. It works well. I work in Nowra and find it very pleasant. Really good selection of cafes with great quality food and coffee. Very nice businesses, all doing well, and the locals are pleasant. Easy to get around. New road and bridge upgrades will help any traffic issues. Lots of good schools, too.

Plus, real estate is still very affordable. Oh, it's happening. Seems like it. I'd say if you're a professional thinking of making the change, do it. Don't hesitate. Okay. Next one, two stars, shabby CBD. What?

They don't mean the extract there, too. No? I don't know what CBD means, but a very shabby CBD stuck in a 50s time warp. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The main street should be pedestrian traffic only with outdoor cafes and eateries, trees, and seating. What do we have?

High gutters, no wheelchair access, and retailers afraid to step out of their outdated way of attracting business. Get the cars out of the CBD, bulldoze stock lands, move the hospital and ambulance to South Nowra, and extend CBD toward the river. Stop the retailers from keeping the place in the last century. You bastards. I added the bastards, but I feel like he wanted to say that. Yeah. Wow. Not a lot of forward thinking, evidently.

Apparently, according to this guy, none. Jesus Christ, he is upset. Shabby. Very shabby. Next up is two from the same guy. He put one up, and then he said, one more. And another thing. Yeah.

Hang on. I'm not done. He said, quote, it's a disgusting place. The whole of Nowra is a complete dump, whether's east south north or west we are so unhappy here and only moved here 19 years ago as sydney house prices were too expensive i hate this place and regret moving here every day for 19 years this man's regretted his decision and another thing next one oh and why and while i'm on a roll i should add that it's boring and too laid back and the whole dump is outdated and backwards that basically sums up this whole that's it he's done now he said

his piece that is an angry i mean he is if he sees a kangaroo he just punches it i mean he doesn't even that man reviewed the town walked away and, and was like, wasn't enough. You know what? Fuck these people. I'm going back for more. I'm going for blood. Wow. Things to do.

Yeah. The Berry Celtic Festival. Okay. The Knights, all the bands, all the clans. That doesn't sound good here. I get it means different thing over there. Medieval villagers singing and dancing. clans that doesn't sound good here uh i get it means different thing over there medieval villagers singing and dancing will be back at the 2023 berry cell uh celtic festival saturday uh may 27th

there'll be a day of full entertainment come see what medieval like medieval life was like in celtic times so it's a renaissance festival for yeah one celtic shit yeah yeah for a weekend the celtic festival steps off steps off that's weird at 9 30 a.m with a grand street parade of pipe bands marching in their distinctive kilts so shit loads of bagpipes bring earplugs is what that says that will be shattering windows together with pipes going literally balls out balls out yep together with representatives of all the clans medieval knights and scottish terrier dogs everything scottish we don't fucking care we put mike myers at the front pretending to be his father we don't give a shit put them all out there at the showground you'll see marching and of the

masked bands musical items highland dancing celtic fiddlers enchanted singing enchanted it's magical magic it's magical apparently and medieval knights the heavily armored noble knights on horseback joust one another to see who is the last one standing okay now i'm kind of in i kind of want to see drowsing i want to see australians drowse each other that's going to be fun. It's literally medieval times, a restaurant outside for a weekend. Oi, cunt! And then they charge each other. They stand like, that's it?

That's all you hear? Okay. That said, let's talk about a murder that did not involve jousting or horseback at all here. Okay. This is some crazy. Australia, the way from what we've seen, basically, and it's a limited scope, I'll admit. We're looking through the kaleidoscope here,

but we've a lot of crime and sports stuff and a couple of small-town murder things, and it's essentially the way we look at it. It's if you mixed Florida and Arizona together and made it all one island together with nobody else, you kind of get Australia and the weird shit that happens there. The strange, deadly, poisonous things that live there. Right. It's those two places.

You know, crocodiles, alligators. It's very similar. So this is no different. This is some wild Florida shit here. So we got to go back to 2006 for this. So pretty modern day here. Talk about a guy, first of all, Gregory Hosa. H-O-S-A.

He's 56 years old in 2006. He's got a wife here. Nice wife named Catherine McKay. She's 44 years old. And as of 2006, they couldn't be doing better. They're living an idyllic life, Jimmy. To them, it's perfect. They own a horse farm.

Oh, yeah. They're horse people. They have a horse farm with a bunch of acres, 28 hectares, whatever the hell that equals out to. That's what they have. So, you know, when you have that many hectares you're living lovely at that point right is that eight of them equal an acre is that what it is what's your hectare dream jimmy what do you what do you dream of in terms of hectare um right around 35 of them i guess people in europe are going yeah so what you guys are morons so um they own this property they board horses there so it's

a business too and they have all this shit they take care of the horses board them train them do all that shit um cowpokes it's well yeah they got that's what they are exactly they own a property called champagne shires oh they've got a fucking name they've got a name well it's a stable so you have to have a name for your business, and that's what it's called. Fuck, yeah. Champagne Shire Stables. They have a 10-year-old son. They're doing well for their lives.

They're doing exactly what they want to do. They're known as pillars of the community. Really? Pillars. Everybody takes their horse there. They regularly exhibit their Shire horses at the Royal Easter Show. Okay. Sounds like a big deal.

I don't know who they, who is sent from the Royal family to take in the splendor of these horses, but some, some off-brand cousin from somewhere, some cross-eyed off-brand cousin they ship down there. I don't know. So, so they do all of this horse stuff here and and they have a lot of clients, obviously. One of their clients is a woman who helps out around there sometimes. Oh. Yeah, she'll, like, when they need an extra hand, she'll jump in and do stuff and, you know, pay her a few bucks. And she has her horses boarded there, you know, so she'll jump in. Her name is Kim Leanne Snibson.

Snibson. Snibson. N-S-N-I-B-S-O is Kim Leanne Snibson. Snibson. Snibson. S-N-I-B-S-O-N. So Snibson. And she's 37 years old. She's been married since 1999 for about seven years now to a man named Paul who was in the service. He's in the military. They've been separated since Augustust 2005 okay so this is early

2006 so it's been a few months but they're still they live apart but they're on very good terms and legally married and legally married yeah they're just he gets transferred with the job and they basically decide that they're going to use this transfer as he's going to move there she's going to stay here and they're going to see how that goes and see if they want to get back together so it was kind of circumstantially and they were like you know what maybe you know we've been having problems maybe this will be best for us for a bit um they have two little girls though too they have two young girls that live with they moved with paul when paul moved oh apparently i guess the base that he was going to has had you you know, child care and all that kind of stuff.

So it was easy. It made it easier for them. And I guess now now Kim is known as very smart. She's a very, very smart lady. Everybody says like intellectually, she's sharp as shit. She's super into animals. Yeah. Very has dogs. She used to train uh sled dogs

awesome yeah her and paul would both do it but she was the main person that did it paul kind of helped her out so she would train sled dogs she also has horses and the horses are staying with you know gregory and katherine there so now, Paul is a parachute technician. Oh, so he packs them and builds them? Got to trust that guy. Well, you better stay on his good side. Yeah. That's what I mean.

You got to be able to trust that guy. But, I mean, you got to be a real steady cat to be like, you're the guy we're going to trust with all of our shit before we jump out of a plane. Like, you're the guy we're going to trust with all of our shit before we jump out of a plane. Then he moved to Wodanga to take up the new Australian Defense Force posting. So they gave him a different posting. He moved there and took the kids with him, and he's going to deal with his parachutes from down there. So Champagne Shires, though, she's left behind. What she does is she rents out the house

that they were living in, in Nowra, to a friend of hers and moves to a smaller place. That's what she does. So she looks, though, at Champagne Shires as her goal is like, I want to have a place like that. Those people have it figured out. And that's what I want. Yeah, I'm an animal lover

they're figuring it out love to take care of the horses i could do that like damn it i want some you know some space some property she's breed australian shepherds here i could do it all i could do it i don't know if australian shepherds would make the best sled dogs probably they seem small maybe they would though i don't think australians aren't huge territory that's what that's a weird thing to train sled dogs in australia is there a lot of sledding going on there that's the first thing i thought when i wrote that down i was like wait a second should have solved the equator for christ's sake that seems very you know it seems like a waste of time i think yeah those dogs are all geared up ready to go and they're never going to get their

shot you know yeah so there's probably snow real far south of the equator, but Australia's a bit too close. A little bit. So she, yeah, if you're in the mountains at a 5,000-foot peak or something, so she says, I got to get a place like that. I need to get a plan. Make a plan. So if you want to have a large horse property, that's a business. So you could come up with a business plan. You could go to try to get a loan to operate that. You could work and maybe open a small business on the side to save up some money.

And, you know, there's a lot you can do, you know, build it up. It's hard. But if that's your dream, you got to make your dream come true. You try or maybe even find a similar property, a property that's a little smaller. You know what I mean? Yeah, scout the land. Sure. Or even that property.

Maybe make them a decent offer, and maybe they'll sell it to you. She takes a different route, though. Uh-oh. She says, you know what? I really want that property, though. That's the one. I've seen others, and that's really, that's the one. None of them compare.

She starts going around to basically every male person she knows, and she's like, just chit-chatting, talking, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, hey, I got a favor to ask of you. There's this property, right? Champagne Shires. Really cool horse property. Super big dream of mine. Love to have it. Problem is, people already own it.

property super big dream of mine love to have it problem is people already own it um maybe you could help me um i don't know maybe kidnap them hold them hostage and force them to sign the property over to us maybe something like that and then when we're done obviously because they'll be pissed and we'll say that they didn't do that on purpose so we'll have to kill them and dispose of their corpses anybody cool with that you'll have another latte um not not even like i'll pay you 10 000 wallaby pelts nothing really just not even just literally like help me out would you do me a solid yeah hey mate and they're like no so they're a lot of the guys most of them too because they talked to guys afterwards who they had asked they would all laugh at her and go get the fuck out of here they thought she was just you know funny lady in her gums yeah you're a right pisser aren't you like you're fucking

that's hilarious and she's like i'm serious and they're like good one anyway so took the kids down to the six flags the other day like they just act like she's not even serious, and she can't get anyone to take her seriously. Anyway, ran into Steve Irwin having a fight the other day. Anyway, ran into him. Giant wound in his chest, mate. It was awful. So that's what's going on. No one will believe it because she's like this nice, smart horse lady with kids and an know army husband and all this stuff and they're like get the fuck out that's a who

would come up with that how does a bright lady wind up with that area like how does she land on that that's her plan i don't know she i think she's just sitting there just stewing and spinning her wheels ran right out of ideas. A couple of these men go to her husband. They know her husband's phone number. So they call her husband, Paul, and they're like, Paul, your fucking wife is asking me to, like, kidnap human beings, hold them hostage, get them to sign property over to her. Then she wants me to kill them and dispose of their corpses this is you should talk to your wife and he goes ah good one mate anyway the other day

we were out at that's literally what happens paul doesn't believe it at all get the fuck out of here and just changes there no he won't three different people call him he won't believe it until she tells you about the tights in our garage wow i feel like that's a man who's had enough and he's just like i don't want to hear anything about her i don't care i don't live there anymore great don't care is she i'm gonna divorce her don't worry about it she kills him she kills him not my problem anyway i don't want to make the custody fight go easier what is wrong with all these Australian guys, though? Is it too many fucking rugby brain injuries or something?

Come on, man. Pay attention, for Christ's sake. What's wrong with you people? Don't look in your eyes, fellas. What the fuck? Is the Vegemite eating your... I don't understand it. So Kim goes to Champagne Shires often because her horses are there.

Yeah. And like I said, she'll help help out sometimes and she'll do a little side work for them with horses and shit but um there comes a point where she can't pay her bill for a little bit all right and she owes them boarding fees her boarding fees and she's worked some of it she only owes them like 300 something dollars it's not you know ten thousand dollars or anything so um it's not a lot but she owes them that and she can't pay. So she goes to them and tells them, look, I'm a little short right now. You know, I could use, if I'm sorry, I'll pay as soon as I can. But if you could please, you know, not kick my horse out

and be cool. And they go, no problem. Yeah, no, that's fine. You're, you help us out and you're loyal customer. And we know you, you're, you're, your house is right down the street. Like it's all good. Don't sweat it. You know, pay when you you can we'll take care of you know we'll we'll float you so rather than her go wow what nice people maybe i shouldn't do this that really pisses her off that makes her how dare they be so nice to me It's literally what she said to people like these fucking assholes didn't even care that I owed them money. Like, who do they think they are? It infuriates me that they don't collect payment. How dare they?

They're just running a bad business over there and I don't like bad business practices. That's all it is. It's probably something along the lines of they're doing so well they don't even need my $300. Yeah, that makes her angry because she wants to be in that position to be able to float people three hundred dollars so that right she's pissed off so she's this now she's got a fire under her ass now it's not just hey you know casually now she's got to make a real plan to get someone to help her she needs to really get someone's attention it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morb Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining

Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. So, she goes to a neighbor of hers. Yeah. A man named Andrew Wayne Flintjar. F-L-E-N-T

J-A-R. Jar. Wow. I almost said G. I almost said Jar. I almost said Jar-A-R. Yeah, Flintjar. He's 32 years old. And she knows that no one's believed her so far she's tried that that murderer is the most common name is wayne that's who we're going to talk to andrew wayne he's good that's that's your guy yeah like if i'm going through the phone book that's the one i'm picking out as far as murder accomplice he's my guy and weird last name there

he is done so he she says okay i went to them before and just like i want this property help me and they were all like you're fucking crazy i need to have a new wrinkle to this plan something that'll it's marketing at some point it's just marketing and you gotta get you gotta get the listeners attention the buyer's attention you know it's flashy things it's shiny objects no no no no no there's no fucking here oh no fucking no no no she doesn't go that route um she does not go the illinois um american route doesn't go the american route with our our last one there the uh what the hell is her name good god i can't remember now oh no in illinois the the one who got the got the two guys to yeah yeah that was bad so she says she goes to andrew

patty thank you patty yep uh she goes to andrew and says listen i need your help with something greg and katherine the horse, they have sexually abused my daughter. Oh. And they videotaped the whole thing. They're sick. They're sick. They're pedophiles that make child pornography with my children. And there's probably people all over the world that have this thing.

And that's what they're doing. So I can't. This is crazy. You've got to help me get revenge on them what a horrific thing to say about somebody you think yeah um this andrew by the way is known as quote kind of malleable easily manipulated is what they call him not the brightest bulb yeah so he hears this yeah and he hears this from a person he thinks is a smart lady and all this so he's fucking enraged.

He wants some Crocodile Dundee Outback Justice shit right now, like literally. He never- Sprinkle bat shit in somebody's hat. Yeah, wombat shit in his- We put wombat shit in his boot, mate. That'll get him. No, that's not what they do, actually. He never asks, asks hey what about your

husband you know the army guy never asked about him maybe we could bring this fuckers up in a plane and he could pack their chutes if you know what i'm talking about that'd be a way to do it you know how mad i am about this see how mad her dad is super pissed right never even asked that though that's never even comes up um really kim says um you know look you can't just go over there and start throwing punches because he's like i'll go over there right now and she's like no no we can go over there and yell at them and throw punches that's not going to do anything no no these are real bastards and they need real punishment they need real punishment and we need to get organized and do this right, she says. Okay.

So she says to herself, though, you know, having one accomplice that could rat me out later isn't quite risky enough. I'm not quite trusting enough here. I should probably involve someone else in this as well. Okay. You know what? Let's really make this a crapshoot. What fun is two dice? Let's get three. You know what I mean really make this a crap shoot what's what fun is two dice let's get three you know what i mean you know for more muscle also so yeah she taps this guy named stacy lee caton even in australia the people's the rednecks middle names are lee what is going on

and there's men with women's names that's right lee is lea but it's pronounced lee so it doesn't matter that's australian lee fuck off are you serious i swear lea and they pronounce it lee stacy lee caton they call him and it's a man it's a man absolutely it's in america stacy leah no well he his his last name is lee caton hyphen oh so. Oh. So it would be Leah Caton in America, Stacey Leah Caton, which still sounds like a woman. Her name's Stacey Leah Caton. Yeah, sounds like a country singer or a pop star. Stacey Lee Caton over here.

That sounds like a country singer. Yeah. So Stacey Lee is the guy who rents her house that Kim moved out of when her husband left, okay? Stacey Lee and his uh and her and his girlfriend rent this place so lee caton is he always notes and tells everybody and talks pumps up the fact that he's been in a ton of fights he's always pumping that up to everybody um paul paul snips and kim's uh kim's husband later on would say quote you would be talking

about normal things and stacy would come in with something bigger or better. He talked about his criminal history, stuff like that. I didn't think he would go very well in a fight myself. I thought I could take him, but he talked a lot of shit, is what he just said. Sounds like a real pussy. Sounds a little like a punk bitch to me. That's just for me.

He said, quote, he is not this tough person he was making himself out to be. I never believed anything he told me. So he's that guy who tries to make himself sound more important. Kind of an unimportant guy who wants to be important. And he seems, from everything, whatever I've heard, he seems almost like a little childlike. Like he's a little slow or something. But I don't know if that's true. It's just that's what I'm getting, the vibe.

So Kim goes to Stacy and tells him a completely different story than he told Andrew. She told Andrew. Than she told Andrew. She caters the stories to the different men. Smart. By the way, Stacy andrew never met each other don't know each other at all oh this is fantastic so she's telling andrew that listen greg horseman over here he drugged me oh and then the two of them uh had did terrible sexual things to me and

videotaped it okay yeah they drugged me victim is her yeah they drugged me he raped me the wife came in she i don't know sat on my face they videotaped i don't know what they did but that's this is a story she's it's all bullshit so that's why i'm pretty flippant with it because it's not true so he asked to see the tape she just made up he's like got a copy of that you got that is that up on the youtube or what so she um this time it's not the daughter though it's her they videoed the whole thing and she's horrified and she feels dirty and horrible and you know it's terrible he never says have you told your husband or the police none of that stuff either he says oh that's gross we need to kill him let's do it okay so they decide awesome so now she's got two men ready to kill for completely

different reasons who are going to be doing the same thing together for zero to talk about it for zero personal gain mind you zero they're getting nothing out of this and they're not going to discuss the crime or i guess they'd just both be saying they're sick people like that yeah they are let's get well shit like that we'll talk about it let's find out if maybe there's a moment so this is a bad lie to have going she's got a lot of plates spinning lie wise and it's oh boy it's a lot so january 28th 2006 kim visits paul that morning drove to where paul lives visits paul talks to him um he said they spoke that they spoke about her wanting to get back together she was trying to get back together with him and he's like i don't know where

we'll you know we'll see how it goes i'm not sure um but he he was leaning towards no paul would later say it was pretty obvious that it wasn't going to happen um and he was asked later if they argued often and he said probably every day there was an argument oh boy so he wanted he was done paul's done with this shit with her so um he said he spoke to kim around noon on june 28 after she left, but she was still driving home at that point. She was there in the morning and drove home. Then he said he was unable to reach her until about 9.30 p.m. that night when he spoke to her briefly.

And then he was unable to get a hold of her the next day, he said. Maybe it's not so over if they're talking every day. We'll talk about why. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why he'd be calling her to see if she got home or I'm not sure. I'm not sure what's going on, but I have no idea what was going on with the kids either. Maybe she said, Oh, tell me how, you know, our kids, uh, you know, or a report goes later on or what could she get on her grade?

Who the hell knows? Anything. So Kim here, um, she ends up not going back to her house. She goes to Stacy's house. Oh. Okay. Her old house. Yeah.

So Kim calls Greg on the phone from that house and says, please come over. I need to talk to you right now. Can you please come over here? I need to help with something. I really need to talk to you. Yeah. Urgent horse business. I don't know.

Whatever that would be. I don't know. There's a shoe over here I need help with. I have no idea. So she's at this property, which she rents to Stacy and the girlfriend. Greg arrives. She sees him through the door and waves and he says, hi. And she says, no, come on in, come on in and waves him in. And so he just opens the door casually, walks in. As he walks in, he is bashed in the side of the head with a large piece of wood. That's a weird plan. Bang. Bashed in the side of the head. Not sure if it was

lumber or firewood, but I have an idea of what it is because someone brings it up later. A heavy piece of wood enough to really hurt a person and knock them down. She then told the two, and this was done by, we presume, Stacy here. So she then tells the two men, we're going to bash them and tie them up.

Both of them. Now, it's just Greg at this point. So what they do is they stuff socks in Greg's mouth and tape over his mouth, over the duct tape, as one does. And then they hog tie him. Oh, my. I think everybody knows what hog tying is. But if you don't, hands behind your back

with your feet connected to your hands, not a great way to be. You are prone. You're vulnerable as fuck. No way to defend yourself there. So Greg, on the ground, while this is going on, before they were able to get the socks and shit in his mouth,

he said, why are you doing this? A good question, by the way we're just really good question i'll fuck the 300 bucks never mind keep it so andrew says because you're a fucking pedophile and you molested kim's daughter and videotaped it this is what you get you child pornographer piece of fucking shit that's not a knife he fucking goes off uh-oh stacy stops looks at andrew and says wait what's that what happened now what about a pedo well i didn't wait a second here kim could you come here so she is caught and he's hogtied at this point on the ground. Oh, we've started. So Stacey says, I'm doing this because they drugged Kim and had their way with her on camera. And Andrew's like, I'm doing this because they molested his daughter, her daughter.

But at that point, they all look at each other and go, he's bleeding and hogtied. A little late to turn back. Fuck it. Maybe he did both. We don't know. Let's keep going. Whatever the reason is is pretty irrelevant at this point we're involved in it now god damn it yeah so they said well we're going

through with it right so they just tape up his mouth so then she calls kim calls katherine up on the phone greg's wife and says i have to tell you something katherine i've been having an affair with greg it's been hot and long going. And, you know, we got to we got to clear the air about this because this is ridiculous. You know, if you want to come over and talk about it, I'm open to it because, you know, this is just wrong. So Catherine goes, I'll be right fucking there. Obviously, son of a bitch. Motherfucker.

Yeah, that's where he is now. He said he was going to your house. I'll cut his balls off. So for me, a Prosecco. Let's chat let's do it the phone records show that this call was made 29 minutes after the original call to greg wow that was fast fast well it's like it's right in the neighborhood so greg just walked over and that's what happened so um she's at the door she comes in and uh she says what the fuck

you've been having an affair with my husband next Next thing you know, they grab her by the, you know, they don't have to bash her because she's not as strong as Greg. So they kind of hold her. They tape her up. They hog tie her. They do the same thing. Socks in the mouth. The whole deal. Then Kim tells the guys, go to Champagne Shires and get some shit for me.

Okay. Get their SUV and two big 44-gallon metal drums. Grab those, would you? Okay. So, they go. The guys get that shit. They come back with the drums. They first take Catherine.

They put her into the drums, feet first or knees first because she's hog-tied. They put her in that way. first or knees first because she's hog tied. They put her in that way. Oh God. So uncomfortable. So uncomfortable. It gets worse. This is pretty bad people. Kim takes a big roll of tape

and just starts wrapping it around Catherine's head over and over and over just wraps and makes her head a big a big ball of tape till she slowly suffocates to death in front of all three of them. Holy shit. Yeah.

Tape, I've never, that's like a crazy horror movie fucking way to kill somebody. Yeah. Who the fuck would do that? And in a horror movie, you go, why wouldn't you just, you know, strangle them or something? Well, geez, what are you doing this for? Like, you really want to put some stank on it, don't this is oh my god this is cruel that's cruel this is like burying someone alive or some shit this is terrifying that's the most torture you're like you're drowning without water that's i mean this is um like i said this is some creative horror movie

shit this is like something a writer would come up with. Like, oh, I've never seen that done before. Let's wrap them in tape. This will give people nightmares. It gave me nightmares talking about her, you know, putting it down last night. I was like, this is gross. So the three of them just stand there and watch her slowly suffocate until she slowly suffocates. Then they, you know, put the lid on the drum. Then they turn their attention to Greg.

Seen what we did. But they decide there's not enough tape. And besides's expensive what are we doing here this is you know a good roll of tape yeah good roll of tape i don't want to waste that so kim says what i do have is some spare electrical fence wire wire from the wire the electrical, which is just like a big cord, basically. Yeah, it's a veil. And she goes, puts it around his neck and gets behind him and, you know, foot in the back, pulls up on him until she strangles him to death with it. Like a mob hit. Yeah. So she's done a mob hit and a horror movie murder. This is crazy.

a horror movie murder. This is crazy. Did they owe the Gambino family money or did they let her slide on a $300 horse bill? What the fuck do these people... Yeah. Oh, man. Her husband better watch out. She is ruthless. This is ruthless.

They stuff Greg in the drum, too. Okay. Then the two boys here, Andrew and Stacy, they leave to buy some cleaning supplies to remove the blood that they had happened when they bashed Paul over the head. Or not Paul. They bashed Greg over the head. So they do that. And Stacy's got a girlfriend that's going to come home here, can't have blood all over the place.

Right. So when they get back, the three of them scrub the house. They are talking about DNA and make sure you get all the DNA of them scrub the house um they are talking about dna and make sure you get all the dna everywhere wherever they were you scrub anywhere that they've touched anything you know blah blah blah um they load the drums into uh greg's car greg and katherine's car and drive them to the tomorong or tomorong state forest. Drive them out to the forest. Take them out. Well, they leave them in the back.

Or they take them out and also leave the car there. They douse the drums and gasoline. They open them up. You've got to open them to do this. Get it all in there. You know, get it all nice and down in the crevices. And lights them ablaze here. Oh, boy.

Also their car. okay okay so they're lighting the just the outside of the barrel on fire no no they opened up the lid okay yeah put a bunch of inside poured a bunch on the body and lit it and it's an efficient way to do it in those barrels yeah that's where you burn trash too it gets hot too so they leave they go home that's that's what happens there now a few hours later stacy goes home that evening old stacy lee caton and he feels bad he feels bad he feels bad for what he did he's just remorse he saw a woman imagine watching that yeah that guy fuck me man that's probably laid down on the couch and was like i'm never gonna go to sleep ever again never that's it i'm done so he heads to his sister's

house a few doors down everybody lives in the same area here it's wild so he tells his sister and brother-in-law kind of the cliff's notes version of what happened there's some people and we did bad things and you know didn't say we taped her head and all that shit but so they go we should take you to the police station probably huh maybe maybe you should tell someone else that story yeah so about 2 30 a.m uh that morning which uh they they he walks into the now we're a police station and says listen there's a man and woman they're like, who are they? Beats the shit out of me.

I don't know. I don't even know what they did or why we did it, but their names are well above my pay grade. Um, they're tied up. Uh, we tied them up at a house at 14 Cala, uh,

Cali, Maya street, C-A-L-Y-M-E-A street in now. Right. And he said he feared they would be killed, which he was telling, he was acting like they didn't already kill him. He was like, there's some people tied up, so you might want to go help them. I don't want to act like I was part of that part, but I'll look out for this.

Yeah. He told them, quote, I can't live with this on my conscience. Uh-huh. Trying to get a nap. It's not happening. It's not good. So by the next morning obviously everybody's going to be arrested we'll tell you how this happens the prosecutor says this

uh quote i've been involved in some shocking crimes involving dreadful brutality that's not a good way it sounds like he's been committing these crimes i've seen i've done some bad things i've done some bad things um this case stands out because in my career I can reasonably only expect to come across maybe one or two true sociopaths. And that's what Kim is. So he said the community was devastated by it. Devastated. That was why that one of their own should be the killer was something which psychologically traumatized that community. This wasn't some drifter or something.

Somebody didn't float in out of the outback to do this. So the next morning, the police end up heading out to find the bodies with Stacy's help here. But when they get there, someone else had already found the bodies. They were already found. Yeah. A couple who was riding bikes in the forest that morning wow happened upon two drums standing side by side in the

clearing with flames and smoke coming out of them and they were like whoa better call somebody so when the fire department or the fire brigade got there they said the one guy said they couldn't believe their eyes inside each drum were the smoldering remains of a human being. One in each drum. That's the fire guy. Not much was left of Greg at all. Wow. Basically nothing.

Just some fragments. And not much was left of Catherine either except for her right foot. Wow. You'd imagine, wow, that's pretty good efficiency from one you know dousing and burning but it actually isn't because before before stacy went to the police and maybe this is why he went to the police he and kim went back there to add more gasoline and make sure it was make sure keep it going make sure it was hotter so yeah hot enough so they wanted to make sure all the dna was destroyed they said that's what they were going for they also found in this

area remnants of rope that bound the wrists fragments of brown tape around his ankles and wire looped around his neck so they arrest kim obviously because she seems to be the main crux of this whole thing. Paul, the husband here, he says they talked to Paul and he says he doesn't even know Flint Jar. He doesn't know who the fuck that is. And he thought that maybe, you know, Kim probably had limited contact with him. She he'd heard of him before, but he never met him. Paul said she didn't socialize with him or have him stay for a cuppa so you know yeah yeah t actually i would imagine yeah maybe in england it is i don't know about australia so later that day um they asked paul to show them they didn't tell paul where the bodies were or anything they said hey paul

would you do me a favor would you take us to the place where you're where kim used to train the sled dogs yeah do you know where it is still you take us he goes yeah no problem i'll take you guys out there yeah takes him out there it's exactly where the barrels were right here in this clear oh oh it's exactly where they went so they go okay there you go perfect nice work here so uh yeah they're all fucked i mean this isn't good they're all tell they've all told on each other it's kim's really the most screwed i would imagine but the other two aren't in good shape either here um andrew goes to court originally he tried to plead not guilty and go to trial and all this type of shit um he he's they try to make a plea deal with him, and he sticks with the trial.

Really? Andrew wants to go to trial. He is on murder and kidnapping charges. Those are the two charges he is up for. I mean, that's so easy. Seems like it. So they do his trial, and, you know, Stacey testifies against him. Kim doesn't, but still Stacey does, and they have a lot of evidence, and it's not kim doesn't but still stacy does and they have a lot of evidence

and it's not good for him obviously um so on the the verdict here for him on the murder charge andrew is found not guilty they decided he didn't do it i don't know how to he said australia's a different place man well stay he said Stacy was the one doing the Stacy and Kim were doing the murdering mainly Kim so Kim was doing the strangling she did the taping so you know I might have helped a little bit I did the kidnapping I you know I helped but that's not murder and in Australia apparently they don't have the whole we're going to the liquor store law there if you're there you did it too have the whole we're going to the liquor store law there. If you're there, you did it too. In America, if you go to rob a liquor store, and this used to be our disclaimer thing. So if you go to rob a liquor store, the whole car, and two people go in the car, and two people stay in the backseat of the car, and the clerk shoots one of the people you came with and kills him, you are a murderer.

You're in the backseat of the car, and your friend died. You're guilty of murder. Period. So that's what we have. Anybody dies in the commission of this. Yeah, that you caused anything, you're a murderer. Here, they're like, well, I mean, I don't know. He didn't really.

He didn't really do much. I mean, yeah, sure, he tied him up. That's not good, but he wasn't. He's kind of dumb. So what about kidnapping, though? Yeah. On the charge of kidnapping, he is found guilty. They do get him on kidnapping because that's pretty obvious.

He put a mask on and like, this is crazy. He was like a he was like a comic book kidnapper behind the door. Yeah. With a fucking piece of wood in his hand. He's a wooden-a-zand. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, Andrew is sentenced to, you may fuck off, seven years in prison. Wow. Yeah, not bad.

Not too shabby he just he brutally murdered two people participated in it anyway seven years he gets it was like seven the low end 12 the high end and he ends up doing seven so he gets unbelievable does the seven as we'll talk about so stacy in court he um pleads guilty to aiding and abetting murder that's how they do it with him which that's a light one there so he gets uh you sir may fuck off a minimum prison sentence of 16 and a half years maximum 22 years for his part in the murders that is heavy that's heavy for him he was the one who told everybody so yeah he went back to put more gas in it, too. Yeah, yeah. He seems like the dumbest of the lot, I feel like, if I'm just going off of my, you know, just intuition here.

So, now there's what about this? Not only is he in trouble, he got his girlfriend in trouble, too. Why? Darlene Eleanor Cowan, 32 years old, Stacy's live-in girlfriend. Orcowen, 32 years old, Stacy's live-in girlfriend, she pestipled guilty to being an accessory after the fact of the murder because she admittedly knew that – oh, I'm sorry. This is Flintjar's girlfriend, not Stacy's. Different one. Flintjar. She knew that Flintjar had been involved with, quote, restraining a couple, and he told her it was retribution for a sexual attack on their children.

And, you know, he went out and took care of a pedophile today type of thing. So Andy's girlfriend gets time, but Andy gets barely any. Yes, exactly. Well, her time is limited, too. The judge said, quote, her ultimate intention was to avoid her and Flintjar becoming involved in the police investigation. That's what she did. She obstructed.

The offender lied to police on two separate occasions. She said that the Cowan, the girlfriend, had been heavily intoxicated when Flint Jar told her what he had done and did not remember that Flint Jar had given her Kim's handbag until she found it in their house some days later. Kim's handbag until she found it in their house some days later. Oh, they said her criminality would have been higher had she disposed of the deceased's handbag. But she kept it. So, you know, and she also made some admissions to the police. So, you know, there's some balance here to this here. They said that she acted out of a misguided loyalty to Flint jar and assessed her. The judge assesses Darlene as being a prior good character and having good prospects of rehabilitation.

Maybe you don't black out drunk much either. That would be might be common there. I don't know. So they sentence her to nine months detention and placed her on 18 month good behavior bond. nine months detention and placed her on 18 month good behavior bond. Okay. So she is, ends up being,

this is in, she does less than a year. She's released in December 8th, 2008 and all the court stuff was going on in 2008. Now, Kim. Okay. My, this ruthless bitch.

She's going to trial here and she is called by the, by the prosecution, quote, the face of evil, which is, that's rough. That's a tough one. And a master manipulator, which, yeah, I would definitely say that. Not master. Well, she got two guys to do this. That's pretty good. She gets results is what I'm getting at.

She's not the smartest. She gets results is what I'm getting at. She's not the smartest. She manipulates with the easiest manipulation tactics on the planet based on vicious sexual assault. That's easy to want to hurt somebody. Who's the two dumbest guys I know? Who's the most gullible two men I know? And, yeah, who would be? But also, who's nice and would be upset that I, you know?

Yeah. Who's dumb and nice? Yeah. Yeah. Dumb, nice, and angry. What's a weird combo? Who do I know? Yeah. Who's dumb and nice? Yeah. Yeah. Dumb, nice, and angry. What's a weird combo? Who do I know? So the defense claims that Stacey Lee Caton forced her to do this.

They not only claim it's all Stacey's idea, he forced her to do this, but then also that Greg really did drug and rape her and film it, which there's no evidence of whatsoever anywhere. Oh, man. What a wild of whatsoever anywhere. Oh, man. What a wild accusation. The person, yeah, but I mean she's going for this. By the way, during all of this, she never said sign your property over to me. Yeah, that was another question.

What the fuck was she thinking? What was she going to do? Was she going to print out papers off the internet and be like, sign these? Like, what are you going to sign? A napkin? Like, she probably said, oh, this probably has to be notarized and stuff. You know, like this is. Sometimes they put like a seal on it.

There's got to be something, right? A lawyer's got to be involved. There's got to be some way to do this. Fuck it, I'll just kill them. And then I guess buy it from the bank or the family at a lower price. I don't know what her plan was, but wow. Now, Paul is brought to court, her husband here. I guess buy it from the bank or the family at a lower price. I don't know what her plan was, but wow. Now, Paul is brought to court, her husband here.

By this time, her ex-husband. He has divorced her. He said he was asked to identify a gas can, a petrol can over there that they had a picture of that was in her car. And he said, yes, it resembled the can that they had kept in the shed at their property. This is the can they used to pour gas on the bodies. Now, Paul, by the way, is accused of keeping information from the police because he didn't want to get his wife in more trouble, he said. What kind of information was he aware of? Well, some damning information. And he said he was being loyal to her at the time.

He said he was being loyal to her at the time. He told the court that when he spoke to Kim the day after her arrest, she was in jail. And she told him that she was a bad person who was going away for 30 years. Oh, boy. She said, I'm dead. Get out of Nowra. She said, I'm dead. Just go.

Fucking forget about me. She's laying there with a leg wound while the monster bears down. I'm a goner, man. Just go. Save yourself. So she said, quote, don't worry about me. I'm a bad person. Oh, well, he's in the military.

He can't leave anybody behind. I can't. I just can't. I took an oath. He said that Kim told him that she really wanted to tell him what happened, but her lawyer instructed her not to talk about it. She said when she gets to court and she has her say, the truth will come out. Paul said, I said it will be all right. No, I'm not going to do that. We'll work, you know, we'll work this with you.

We'll work through this with you. And she said, although he said, although I said it was going to be all right, she didn't look all right. Yeah, she knew she was fucked first of uh the first two statements paul gave to the police were he failed to mention any of this conversation um police were not informed of the conversation until a year and a half later and he said i did tell the truth in all the statements i left out a couple of those sentences from kim because it sounded very damning to me and i didn't want to see anything bad happen to her in other words i withheld some shit that you wanted to know which is exactly what you just asked me

wow i still had loyalty to kim even though we had long broken up he acts that's like saying your fucking wife going did you cheat on me and you going no no no i mean my penis was inside a woman but it wasn't cheating that's what he just did yeah i mean it was in there i got loyalty in and out and in and out and in and out don't get me wrong i mean a couple of times really it was it was a while but also uh yeah a couple times i pulled it all the way out and put it all the way out put it back in put it up in a gob back in a veg that's to quote fucking to quote jay from the inbetweeners uh so while this is going on kim um during this she ends up going on the stand and she said she felt sick to her stomach about the murders just terrible yeah she said i think about it every single day and um you know she said it's just terrible i jerk it to it all the time no she said she did have an affair

with greg oh on the stand she said while um while greg came over and they argued she said stacy of his own accord grabbed a bird perch that's the wood she he grabbed a bird perch and hit greg on the head with it calling him to causing him to fall to the ground um she said that um that uh that katherine then argued with her and they were arguing back and forth and um so andrew would tell them that he had to tackle Catherine because she, quote, came at me. Weird. He's kidnapped someone's husband and tried to trap him in a house. They might come at me.

Kim says, quote, she fell back and hit her head on the pantry and fell on the floor. Yeah. It was an accident. We didn't even mean to do anything. She slipped on a banana peel. Yeah. It was an accident. We didn't even mean to do anything.

She slipped on a banana peel. Yeah. Then Kim says that it was Stacy who actually lit the bodies on fire and took them in the metal drums and all that stuff. It was mainly Stacy is what he said. Andrew did some of the violence, but Stacy is the killer, man. That's how it is. And Stacy testifies saying that he watched as Kim wrapped the tape around Catherine's head and watched as she pulled a piece of wire around Greg's neck and choked his life out. So it's not good. So her charges are, you know, murder, kidnapping.

She is she is found. Let's see here. Guilty of everything. Yeah. Guilty of all. They realize she was manipulating them, too. Yeah. She's like, what are we doing? We're fucking morons here.

So during her sentencing and her victim impact statements, the family, Catherine McKay's sister, Marion, said the family were, quote, like animals caught in the headlights. She said, I'm struggling to find the words for the numbness and traumatic feelings the murderers caused the family. The murders have caused the family. The impact has been felt physically, socially, emotionally, and psychologically. So I would say so. They talked about the devastating effect on Greg and Catherine's young son, 10 years old. Both his parents are gone. Another of Catherine's sisters, Jan, said that she couldn't comprehend how anyone could do this to another human being.

She said, we are disgusted by claims of an affair between Gregory and Kim. The families are shocked by the lies that have been told about Catherine McKay and Gregory Hossa by these three offenders. Yes. They're pissed. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. She could have done this a way different way.

She made it sting even more. She really did. She put some salt on the wounds there. Yeah. She could have done this a way different way. She put it. She made it sting even more. She put some salt on the wounds there. Yeah. She she called them rapists and pedophiles basically in her murder trial in the hardest way. Yeah. So the judge here says, quote, there was no conceivable basis upon which her culpability could be reduced because she was in some way acting under duress from Stacey. That's not possible. He said her story was implausible and her allegations about the videotape and child sexual abuse didn't contain, quote, a shred of truth. None.

He said each of the victims would inevitably have experienced a slow and painful death. You, ma'am, may fuck off. 32 years in prison. And I'll bet she has to do every second of it. Chance of parole in 24. 2024?

I guess not. 24 years. In 24 years. All right. So now that was in 2008 and she'd been in since 2006. So 24 from then would be 2030. That's when she's supposed to get parole or a chance at parole. But in October 2022, Jesus Christ.

No fucking way. She wants to be released early. All the newspaper articles at the time are like the woman dubbed the face of evil has claimed now that she's now she says she's sickened and ashamed for quote robbing a young boy of his innocent good and kind parents oh now she's okay she's had to change her tune yeah oh yeah she had to she wrote a handwritten plea to this panel of judges here as part of a legal campaign to reduce her sentence based on current legal principles regarding standard non-parole periods. So she's in a gray area. The letter here. Wow. She says she's Catholic now and she's found God behind bars.

Yeah. And while she's also fell in love with a fellow prisoner. So now she has. Now she's a lesbian. Now she's Catholic. She's found God. And she's found love with another lady. Which as you find out, the Catholic Church frowns upon that. Yeah.

I don't know about in Australia. Maybe not. Who knows. Down there it might be backward. Maybe not. Who knows? Down there it might be backward. And she said, quote, I'm in jail for an extremely horrific crime on two innocent, good and kind people who didn't deserve for one second what happened to them.

Yeah. She's devoted to God now. And she writes that if released, she just wants to move to New Zealand. Oh. I'm sure they'd love to have her here. I'd be like, no, you keep her on your side of the water. Thanks. I'm not fucking taking this crazy. I'm going to go to New Zealand. I'm sure they'd love to have her here. You keep her on your side of the water, thanks. I'm not fucking taking this crazy... I'm going to go to another island. Taking this crazy twat over here? Send her back. No.

With her partner, who's a 42-year-old woman who has served her sentence and is now finished. She wants to get out so she can move to New Zealand with her girlfriend. There's your answer. Has nothing to do with remorse. It's she's getting out and I don't want her to cheat on me. I don't want her fingering anybody else over there.

So I've got to, you know. She said, quote, I think about being home with my family every day, being able to help my mom so her life is a little easier. She's 73 now. When we do get to talk, we talk about all the plans I have when I come home, back to New Zealand, a new life. Over the years in prison, I've taken courses to help sort my life out, she said. And Kim, her mother wrote a letter to supporting her saying, quote, Kim was a screwed up woman at the beginning. same person that came into jail the kim 17 years ago isn't the kim i'm going to be when i walk out of out of jail she is already gone i have so many beautiful possibilities ahead okay you know who doesn't though yeah these two people who did nothing wrong to you whatsoever except treat you nicely and try to fucking help you out with a couple of things you asshole so she's a real

asshole now andrew wayne flint jar here he was sentenced to 10 year maximum seven year minimum and he is paroled on april 25th 2013 okay that is seven years he gets out so stacy Caton, on the other hand, he had maximum 22 years. He was released on July 28th, 2022, which is 16 years, which was his minimum. So he's released on there. And Kim Leanne is scheduled for her first parole hearing January 28th, 2030. So they told her to keep on stepping. Sorry about your. Hope she doesn't cheat on you in the next eight years.

Don't know what to tell you. She's got eight years. So, I mean, maybe find another. I don't know. There you go. That, everybody, is Australia in a nutshell. That is crazy shit. We've had a new form of a new way to murder.

We've never thought of that one before. Certainly, yeah. Just tape her whole head closed and generally generally the body doesn't burn they also figured out how to make it almost go away real fast keep adding gas to it is the key don't just light it and let it go see that's the problem people in west virginia that murder people are lazy most of the time they just one match a half a can of They're like, I ain't going to the gas station getting more. That's what I had in my trunk. That's what I'm using. Well, I didn't walk.

Yeah. These people come back and make sure and, you know, sit there with the poker and shit. They're crazy. That's what I mean. This is wild. Yeah. They got more. You got the s'mores?

Come on now. So this shit is wild. That's Australia, everybody. If you enjoyed that show, tell the world about it. You really, you can't hurt anybody by telling the world about it. You can only help and bring joy to others. So do that. And also tell your friends and leave reviews.

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And what you're going to get this week for crime in sports which by the way you should be listening to crime in sports if you're not give it a shot because it's a lot of gangbusters it's going wild and it's I'm telling you just try it just try it it's funny and it's crazy and there's a lot of wild crimes there so for crime in sports we're going to talk about stairway

to stardom hell yeah the public access talent show that was on in New York. The public access talent show that was on in New York. Train wreck of a talent show that was on in New York from the late 70s to the early 90s. Want to hear an Indian guy sing New York, New York? We got you covered. I'm going to play some clips. We're going to crack up laughing at it. It's going to be really, really funny.

And then for small town murder, this basically needs no introduction. The prisoner dating game, everybody. You know what that is four bachelors four bachelorettes they have two things in common one they're looking for love and two they're all incarcerated for violent felonies so jimmy is going to choose one of each based on nothing but the dating profile that they put out the prisoners themselves and then after that jimmy gets to see what a terrible decision he made when we find out what they did and how dangerous they are it's hilarious shit can't wait the prisoner

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Chicago. We're coming to Chicago. Everybody get your tickets in there. It's going to be our biggest show ever if you fill this bad boy up. So let's do this, Chicago. Represent. We cannot wait. And that's that.

And then you also got Dallas, Philly. A few seats left in D.C., but those are almost gone. And that's in that's that. And then you also got Dallas, Philly, few seats left in DC, but those are almost gone. And that's a November as well. Uh, Charlotte and Atlanta. Those are your cities that we have left. Everywhere else is sold out. So can't wait to see everybody in all of these wonderful places and, uh, a lot of fun there. You definitely, uh, do all of that shit.

Keep, keep hanging out with us and also keep your eyes out either the 5th or the 12th we really know how to launch something don't we of june you know what we like to do we're good at building this fence god damn yeah we're we're fucking good at making the shows we're not good at the other stuff that's the thing so the other parts aren't we do the show stuff no the other part's easy we don't just we're just dumb and don't know how to do it. Making the shows is the part that anybody can fucking be organized and do stuff like that and anybody can do that. That's easy. You don't

have to have any fucking, doesn't have to be funny. We actually have to make a funny show. Your Stupid Opinions, our new show where we talk about and make fun of reviews of everything from all over the internet. You name it, we're going to talk about it. It's going to be so much fucking fun. Check that out coming out and keep hanging with us.

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