Small Town Murder - #393 - The Neighborhood Monster - Arkansas City, Kansas

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

This week, in Arkansas City, Kansas, a very smart, and popular college girl disappears, and family, friends & police look at one young man for answers, and find even more than they bargained for. They find a person who has been a menace since elementary school. From peeping on neighbor girls, to stalking, and borderline kidnapping, to chasing children in the streets, trying to hit them with belts, when he's not trying to fight old ladies. But this act of awful bloodthirsty violence goes well beyond what anyone could have expected!! Along the way, we find out that Kansas & Arkansas shouldn't be in the same name, that Subway really needs to rethink their hiring processes, and that it's hard to feel bad for someone, who feels no empathy towards others!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Arkansas City, Kansas, a popular college student goes missing and it fits right in with the strange happenings and stalkings that others have been reporting. But will she be found alive? Welcome to Small

Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my sick co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, for joining us so much today. indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my sick co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks for joining us so much today jimmy is under the weather but he's still ready for crazy murder let's go he just sounds like crap so that's fine we'll get into that though we have a wild story

for you just a wow talk about a weird guy we have a real weird guy before we get to that real quick though before we get to that though quickly you definitely want to head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com Get your tickets for live shows. Oh my goodness, live shows the whole rest of the year. But most of them, a lot of them, are sold out. Next live show with tickets available August the 12th. Chicago,

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So check that out. That is Shut Up and Give Me Murder. No, that's the website. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all that. And make sure you get a shout out at the end of the show, too. Jimmy's going to mispronounce your name. He wants it to be correct, but he won't. He won't get it correct. And you definitely want to keep an ear

out for your stupid opinions our new show coming out very soon we want it to be june 5th or june 12th and we're just waiting on all the stuff has to be established and the thing and the business stuff and the feed to it and all that so the show's ready it's not us we're just waiting on business stuff so it'll be to you as soon as we can get it to you and we'll you know we'll blow it out on social media and all that yeah we'll put it out there for you so that said disclaimer time this is a comedy show yeah we're comedians we're gonna make jokes people are also gonna die these things are gonna happen in the same show but what we do is we try not to mix those two particular things together yeah yeah there's nothing funny about someone being murdered that's not funny the funny stuff is around it someone thinking they can get away with murder someone coming up with a maybe

they'll believe this alibi that's hilarious that's funny nothing funny about cutting somebody's head off that's really just not funny so what we're trying to say is we make jokes but we go out of our way not to make jokes about the victims or the victims families why james because we're assholes but but we're not scumbags that's how that works so if that sounds good to you we're gonna hear a wild story if you think true crime and comedy should never ever ever go together maybe we're not for you i don't know that's it's a true crime show with comedy in it you should have known that from the start so either way no complaining later on for the rest of you that want to hear a wild crazy insane story i think it's time to sit back everyone let's all clear the lungs what do you say

everybody arms to the sky and let's shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We're going all the way to Kansas today. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

We all know Kansas. So you think of Kansas, it's just party time. Oh, Jesus. Everybody goes to Kansas for spring break. All the spring breaks, all the kids just gather up in Kansas. We're going to, this is very weird, we're going to Arkansas City, Kansas. What the fuck? Which is another state.

And it's so strange because the funny thing about people who are learning English, that's one of the things they say is, how is Kansas, Kansas, and Arkansas, Arkansas? How is that not Arkansas? Or that's not Kanza. How the hell does that work? Oh, yeah, Kanza. What's the deal there? And this has both of them in the same name, Arkansas City, Kansas. So it has the word Kansas said twice different ways in the same name.

Bullshit. Yes, if you're from another country, sorry about that because that is crazy. English is a tough language. This is in south central Kansas, so it's not even like on the Arkansas border or anything. It's not even like right by Arkansas, so that doesn't make any sense. It's about an hour to Wichita, about two hours and 50 minutes. If you're ever wondering, what's an hour away from Wichita? This.

This is. Nothing else. Trust me. About two hours and 50 minutes to Topeka. Again, ever wonder what's three hours from Topeka? And about three hours and 35 minutes to Atchison, Kansas, which was our last Kansas episode over the holidays there. The Bondage That Ties was the name of that one. It was gross.

This is in Cowley County. Area code 620. No motto, but it has a nickname. Everybody calls it Arc City. Yeah. Everybody calls it Arc City. Yeah. Everybody. The kids, even their high school football jerseys say Arc City on them. I'm not kidding.

They refuse to say Arkansas. They will not go the whole distance here. Yeah. We won't pronounce it that way. It's just Arc City. If we got to pronounce it like that, we're out. So history of this town. People started settling here in

1870 you know settlers came uh they couldn't pick a name at first had a real hard time named it several other things before settling on arkansas city right that's that's what you came up with after other choices that was that was a multiple choice well the Well, the first few here were Adelphia, like Phila. Okay. When there's Adelphia's places, I think there's Philadelphia, Mississippi, Illinois. I don't know. Cresswell is one of them. Yeah.

That's not bad. That seems like it's somebody's name, C-R-S-W-E-L-L. And Walnut City, finally. Oh. It's Walnut City, everybody. That's stupid. That failed to attract the masses, as they would have thought. Yeah.

That feels like a failed furniture store. Walnut City, y'all. Yeah, that's what it is. Come on down to Walnut City. It's a love seat thrown in for free when you buy the couch and the coffee table. Only at Walnut City. That's the Walnut City guarantee. What's this made of?

You guessed it. Fucking Walnut. It's all Walnut. Everything's Walnut. Strangely enough, nothing in here made of Walnut City. That's the Walnut City guarantee. What's this made of? You guessed it. Fucking Walnut. It's all Walnut. Everything's Walnut. Strangely enough, nothing in here made of Walnut. It's all particle board. Everything's cedar. Everything's particle board.

So then they finally chose the first one, or the name Arkansas City, and established a post office in 1870. A bunch of railroad companies built a line from Florence to El Dorado in 1881, and it was extended to Douglas and later to Arkansas City. So that became a big deal. It was abandoned by 1942, though, so it didn't last very long there. Arkansas City grew a lot through the 1800s. 1891, a population explosion happened because it was the anticipation of the Cherokee Strip land run.

They were giving land away, so people came here. Oh, fuck, free land? Sure. Free dirt. How else are you going to get people to move to Kansas? Right.

Silver? Not here. They didn't have silver here. Wasn't Dodge City Silver City? I don't know. I don't know. They have nothing here. Nothing. Nothing's Dodge City Silver City? I don't know. I don't know. They have nothing here. Nothing.

Nothing's coming out of this ground. It's nothing. You'll probably grow things. But at the turn of the century, Arkansas City was about the same size as Wichita, only a little bit smaller than Wichita, and had a lot of businesses, had railroad lines, had what's called here an elegant opera house. Yeah. Elegant. I'm sure Arkansas City, Kansas nowadays, the word elegant is thrown around a lot there. Numerous nice hotels.

They had a manufacturing base and a lot of agriculture. They had a big economy. They even had a swimming hole called Paris Lake. And so there was there. And then a huge flood came in 1919 and destroyed all of that, of course. Took the opera house? Took it all. No, took the pool.

Destroyed the whole pool. Destroyed the women, swimming pool. Swimming hole? Swimming pool? Women pool? Women pool. Women. The women pool.

So they just took the S off. It's local. I don't know. So by the 1980s, though, bad things are happening. The railroads shifted all their crews to other stops. The old rodeo meatpacking plant, which for a time was Moral's Meats, or Moral Meats, was closed. And they only had one passenger train that served the city. It was Amtrak's Lone Star.

And that was discontinued. So shit got sad. Amtrak's Lone Star. And that was discontinued. So shit got sad. Do you know that shit still exists from coast to coast, the Amtrak? Yeah. That's crazy. It takes a fucking week to do it. And it costs as much as flying.

It makes no sense. Same price. Same price. I'd like it to take five days. All this convenient travel of technology. No, no, no, no, no. I would like it to take five. I'd like to live on a moving vehicle with hundreds of other people for five days. That sounds wonderful.

In a seat, James, that's the same size as an airline seat. What are you doing? Just five days. I'd like it to really take. Quicker to drive. Easier to fly. I'm a masochist. I like to kick my own ass. People, I'd like it to really take quicker to drive, easier to fly. I'm a masochist. Five days.

I like to kick my own ass. People, I'd like to see the country. Then get in the car. This isn't the way to do it. Look down. So in 96, Total Petroleum closed their refinery and lost a bunch of jobs. In 2003, a bunch of other big employers closed down stuff. And the Benny Smith Crayola plant closed down with a loss of 400 jobs.

And unfortunately, you never get that crayon smell throughout the town again. That's a shame. I love that crayon smell. But now it's home to a state-of-the-art meat processor, Creekstone Farms Premium Beef LLC, which employs 1,100 workers. So things have turned around here, and smaller manufacturers have come in, too, based on that. So it's turning around here for the better.

Reviews of this town. Let's find out from the people here if it is turned around. Here we go. Four stars. Pretty damn good. A good small town with its imperfections. Oh, that's being honest. I like that.

You can find things to do if you look hard enough, and there's always a good neighbor around. Okay. Great, great Polynesian and Hispanic communities are on the rise. Is that right? Well, we'll find out because we have statistics there. Traffic seems to be getting worse every year with no sign of fixing. Schools require more funding but are doing the best they can. Keep your kids in the loop as there are always bad apples around, unfortunately.

Sounds like it's code, doesn't it? Keep your kids in the loop. Always drink your Ovaltine. It sounds real sort of weird code. Great city that just needs work around the edges. Okay. That's fine. That's, you know, it's honest. An honest that just needs work around the edges. Okay, that's fine. That's, you know, it's honest. An honest assessment.

Like a used car review. Yeah, it's, you know, little rust. Could use a couple new belts, but man, you get that thing, it's going to be humming. Four stars. I love living in a small town where I know my neighbors. The best example I can think of is our oldest daughter when she was two years old.

Her dad dozed off and she went out the front door looking for me i had left for the grocery store and she thought she would just go after me our neighbor lady and our mail lady stopped her and notified the police who then notified us they saved our daughter from being a lot of possible very dangerous outcomes this kind of relationship and knowing the people we live around is great well if you knew them that well they would have brought the kid back to your house not called the fucking cops other right hey i'm more worried yeah what's that example of our town you can be a shit parent and the town will take care they'll take care of the kid well they'll hand it over to the police anyway yeah um if they did not know our family and did not know this was out of character something

horrible horrible might have happened to her. Is it normally in character for any two-year-olds to be wandering in the street by themselves? Oh, I don't know that kid. Maybe the parents are okay with this. Maybe that's normal for this two-year-old to be on its own. There goes that two-year-old on his way to the bar. She's going to work. That's where she's going.

Okay. What do you got? Oh, you're working at the meatpacking plant? Cool. We'll see you at the end of your shift. Wear your gloves. Wear your gloves. Wear your gloves. Wow.

Three stars. This town is very boring. Okay. Also, if you do not like to live in unsafe neighborhoods, I would not pick Arc City to live. If you do not like to live in unsafe neighborhoods, I would not pick Arc City to live. Very dangerous, apparently. I've lived here for a year and the roads are very bad the atmosphere is not good and the town just looks very run down it when you look at the

pictures it looks like one of these 80s movies that takes place in a small town about like a football team and a kid that wants to get out and stuff and it's like kind of run down and there's like a hardware store that they're boarding up as the as the opening credits of the movie showing you the towns in disrepair right and the woods not perfect but uh it's fine it's fine it's walnut it'll hold up uh three stars although this city is number eight in the most dangerous cities in kansas oh what does that mean in kansas what does that mean? In Kansas. What does that mean? Get the fuck out of here. There's 11. What does that mean? What does that mean, guys? Come on.

Eighth most dangerous in Kansas. It generally do not feel threatened while living here. That's right from the review. That's not me. According to the article, the chances of getting raped, attacked or killed are 1 in 140 and, quote, getting much worse. However, aside from this case that happened in 2007, I have heard of little to no cases being reported of rape or murder in my time living here. In all honesty, the reported cases of rape will have a lot more to do with consensual sex under legal age usually under the influence of alcohol rather rather than the use of brutal force are you are you a detective you victim

blaming motherfucker are you are you a detective like do you know these statistics like i investigate all of the accounts so i know these things it's mostly drunk kids having buyer's remorse you know on the dick or pussy jesus christ these damn college kids there's two colleges around here too so that's going to add to it i have no questions in my mind when i don't mean going to add to what he said i mean add to sexual assault you have young horny people running around um i have no question in my mind that when it comes to the topic of assault uh being in a small town not with not a whole lot of proper parental upbringing the residents here simply do not understand how to control their temper, and this often leads to fights and even aggravated assault. However, through experience, if you keep your mind to your own business, there will be little to no problems with living here.

That's a long way to say it, but you get it. Mind your business. Two stars. Job opportunities are scarce. There are no attractions. Taxes are high. Drug problems abound. The town is drying up and has a lot of houses condemned.

This is where dreams go to die. Welcome to America. That's a kid in a small town. This is where dreams go to die because everyone I know is doing something they're miserable at that's how we all grew up you know what i mean uh population here 12 028 so that's enough that's enough but pretty small it's gone down it's in the last uh 15 years too as we'll find out uh male females a few more females about 52 which is kind of over the average by a bunch there uh 47 are married here uh more single with children race of this town as we'll find out about this large polynesian population and huge hispanic population 70.3 percent are white uh 3.2 percent black 0.5% Asian, 2% Native American, 20.1% Hispanic, and 0.0% Hawaiian or Pacific Islander.

So I believe Polynesian would probably go into that. So religion of this town, 48.4% are religious, which is just below the average. And it's a horse race here for Methodist baptists and it's all and uh other christians so really no no clear winner here just kind of a lot of jesus a lot of jesus 0.0 percent jewish though that is not happening not a lot of that at all uh in this county last election 30 percent of the people voted democratic 67.9 percent republican 2.1 percent independent unemployment rates a little bit under the national average. There is a lot of places to work here that have opened up recently.

The median household income, though, is only $37,139 a month, which is well under the $53,000 or $54,000 national average. But there's also a lot of college kids here, so that skews it as well. So that's a tough one. Now, cost of living, 100 being regular average par uh here it is 65 so pretty low median home cost here this is the median like home value in this town 90 100 really housing is an 18 out of 100 and cost of living is incredibly affordableibly affordable. Incredibly affordable. So if you want to afford it and you can't afford it, we have for you, everybody, the Arkansas City, Kansas Real Estate Report. Average two-bedroom rental here is about $700 a month, which is way lower than the national average. It's usually about $12.

Your first house we have for you here is a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,674 or 72-square-foot house. It's pretty blue. Very, very blue. It's not terrible, but it's not wonderful. Um, it's not terrible, but it's not wonderful. It's not, you know, it's not ready to like host a big party or anything, but you could fix it up and it's not bad. But the thing is, it's an auction house. So, oh, there you go.

You might be able to get it real cheap. It's our first highest bidder that we've done on the show here at auction. Next up, we have a four bedroom, two bath, 700 orath, 1,763-square-foot complete shitbox on a half acre. It's a terrifying mess with plywood over windows. Kitchen doesn't have a ceiling. It has a roof, but no ceiling. A couple other rooms also have no ceilings. I'm not talking holes in the ceiling.

I'm talking not a stitch of drywall up there at all. Just beams. So that's odd. Squatters would scoff at the inside of this place. They'd go, I don't know. Outside's not that bad. It's a dump of all dumps, or as the real estate listing puts it,

quote, potential waiting to be snatched. Exclamation point. Swear to God, that's what it says. $45,000 for this thing though on a half acre so you knock it to the ground and start over uh next up let's say you're doing real well you're you're running the meat packing plant yeah yep uh five bedroom eight bath holy bowl for each and every b-hole with some leftover for your friendly neighbors 60 won't want to come over and poop at my house it's open for those two-year-olds that wander around we got extras yeah 60 174 square

feet and there's bathrooms everywhere yeah it's just it's a it's a huge cool house ibs patient's dream it's oh man anywhere you want to go within 10 feet, there is a toilet bowl. You just run. Hold your stomach and run, man. It's going to be there. This place would cost you so much in toilet paper, though. Just to keep these bathrooms in paper. Keep a roll on each one. Trying to keep Charmin in all

my bathrooms, man. I can't do it. An 8-pack and you're already out of toilet paper. That's unbelievable. It's done. You've got to buy those big ones. $599,900 for that, though. That's amazing. For that huge of a house, that's a very low cost for that big of a house. You get a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,200-square-foot one in a bad neighborhood in Phoenix for that? $500,000.

Lots of gunshots you're going to hear at night. Plenty of sirens. Plenty of helicopters, yeah. You'll be awake every hour. You'll know. Oop, that's sirens, plenty of helicopters. Yeah. No, you won't. You'll know. You'll know. Oh, that's the morning gunshots. I'm up.

Okay. That's someone being murdered. Perfect. Yeah. Things to do here. Oh boy. The Arcalala. What is that?

Arcalala. A-R-K-A-L-A-L-A-H. Arcalala. The Arcalala Festival is a nonprofit organization committed to organizing an event that promotes pride and positive images of Arkansas City. Okay. So it's just to make Arkansas City better. This began in 1928, right before the Great Depression. And this is funny what it says, too.

It says, the history of arkalala it all began in 1928 the big depression was on the way and everyone was blue and discouraged no one knew that hat was gonna was coming the stock market crashed one day and then the fucking economy went after it no one was like new no one was like man this great depression's coming up and then hitler's gonna do a bunch of bad shit. Jesus, this place is in 1920. No one thought that. They didn't predict. I know that there was the Dust Bowl in the 20s, so around there it might have still been bad.

But wow, okay. Everyone was blue and discouraged. The old Petroleum Club was above Peterson's Drugstore. Most of the businessmen ate lunch there. They sat around talking one day, and they said, let's come up with a festival yeah so that's what they did here and uh arkalala became the name of it alala was the local indian word for a for good time now it makes sense not really but that's fine we'll let it go ark a good time ark a good time ark good time and so this thing they have a dodgeball tournament they call it dodge dodgeball a la la okay i'm already sick of

this yeah that's what i mean it gets a little too much here i'm already annoyed um the best is you want a lollipop it's a lot the la la lollipop contest they also the announcement of the little mr and miss finalists of the arkalala you know little miss there's a coronation for children and of course the arkalala queen as well yeah the crowning of the 19th queen alala and mr and miss crowning uh that night they to have it. So we're all crowning, everyone. There's no king, though. No. Then at 8 p.m. on one night, they have Rock On With Throwback,

is the name of the band. No C. Throwback with a K. What? At the American Legion. It says, come to the American Legion and rock on with throwback. This band covers classic rock hits. We figured.

We figured. We knew. We figured. We love Led Zeppelin. We didn't think you were doing Flo Rida. You know what I mean? We know what you're doing. And also has some original music.

Oh, I'm sure that's wonderful. Throwback has been growing in popularity and booking bigger and bigger gigs all the time. Bigger American Legions? Wow. With band members being publicized in national music industry magazines, this is not an opportunity to miss. If you don't name the magazines, that means it's nothing anyone's ever heard of, and it's not a...

Unless it's Rolling Stone, we don't care, first of all. And even then, I don't really care. That's the only one, right? But you can brag. To see them, it's $10 a head or $15 a couple. Oh. Just to see these guys. You got a date?

It's $15. That's nice. Just to hear them. $15 off the entry. Yeah. Just to hear them sing out. Play somebody else's music. Play fucking eight Tom Petty covers.

Didn't he already play I Won't Back Down? Oh, yeah, yeah. you're right that was american girl never mind okay so crime rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime slightly high um actually a lot high over one third of like one third over the average wow pretty high and then violent crime murder rape, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crimes, also high. Really? Also high. Maybe about 20% high, but high.

Oh, my God. Not that safe. No. A lot of times that comes with a college town, the property crime, but it doesn't really explain the violence that's going on there. That family's lucky to have their two-year-old back at some point. Jesus. Somebody didn't beat it to death in the streets. Wow. Swerve their car into it, go, you little bitch and then kept driving wow okay so that said let's talk about a murder shall we let's do it okay let's get into this uh let's go back in time

here to 2007 early 2007 to catch up with these people. We're going to talk about a young lady here, Jodi, with an I, J-O-D-I, Jodi Sanderholm. Now, Jodi is 19 in 2007. She's born September 26, 1987, and she's from Arkansas City. I mean, three generations of her family are from there. Her parents had some of the same teachers she has in high school. You know what I mean? She's been an Arcolala pageant.

Oh, she's probably the winner, actually, because when you hear about her, she does very well for herself in terms of she's a very pretty girl, very popular, very smart, really smart, really clever, socially adjusted, really good. Her parents' names are Brian and Cindy, and they run Arc City Glass, a glass shop. So, yeah, they have a family business. She's the youngest. She has an older brother and an older sister. Very close to her older sister who's about three years older than her. Super close to her, Jodi is. So Jodi went to the you know school in arkansas

city she ends up in 2006 graduates from arkansas city high school and she was one of four valedictorians of the graduating class well how do you do that tie oh tie yeah i guess that's probably i guess all i don't know if they can get extra credit, go above 4.0, but for four perfect grades. So they said, well, there you go. We got four of them. We got four of them. So she's one of the four, though. That's amazing. She does really well. Member of the National Honor Society, a Kansas state scholar and Kansas Board of Regents scholar. She's so smart. And she was a member of the Arc City High School dance team for four years. Her last two years,

she was the captain of the dance team. Okay. She's really just smart. Fucking busy. Yeah, she was an usherette, performing usher duties for local school concerts and plays, a member of the student council as well,

as she wasn't busy enough. And in 2006, she was even voted best dressed in the senior council as well as she wasn't busy enough and in 2006 she was even voted best dressed in the senior class as well do you where's the time to sleep dear wow that's imagine being that great in high school stuff just figured it all out socially figured academically figured it out everything athletically she's a good dancer she even knows how to dress cool like damn it holy crap which best dressed in 2006 i don't know what that means that just means that

that means that your genes were as close to your your pubic area as possible without actually exposing your genitalia right is that the how the ruling that was they got a tape measure out and they were like it's two millimeters they were like like, she wins. That's it. I don't know. Her grandmother said she's, you know, as a little girl, she always had to have costumes for all these dance recitals she was always doing. She's always into that. All of her friends say she pays close attention to her clothes and her hair. You have to be to be best dressed. Right.

And she would offer clothing, makeup tips, and general beauty tips to her friends, including lending them jewelry. That's nice. Lending them some jewels. Let them do their deal. Yeah. So in May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new We'll see you next time. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Jody also has a boyfriend here at night. She's been going out with him since she was 14. They're still together. Nice boyfriend, five years, same age. They went to school together and they're coming up together.

Yeah, no, he's not like 33 or anything. He he was 29 when they met though so it's okay no none of that shit so she's very um he said she's very self-conscious about anything negative said of her if anybody says anything negative she takes it to heart and she goes man is that true do i need to fix that like you know like a 17 year old does yeah but she actually fixes it she doesn't just get mad she goes is that true? Should I fix that? That's something I need to work on. Like she's a work in progress and put more than, but she's doing so well.

She's very close to perfect yet. She's like, I could be better. Open to change. Most people suck and they're just like, I'm fine. Fuck you. You know? Well, it's better than that. They think they're perfect.

I'm perfect. think they're perfect. I'm perfect. And they're terrible. So she even gets a dance scholarship to go to college, which I didn't know they had those, but apparently they do. A dance scholarship. I guess it's a dance team, yeah. She goes to Crowley College, which is the county's college there, where she is majoring in pre-pharmacy, which is a hard course, actually. Pharmacy's hard. You have to know a lot of shit.

You've got to be able to pronounce words, that's for sure. And pronounce words, and they have to teach you to count tiny little objects. No, but you have to know what a million and one drugs do. And the side effects. And the side effects. I always hear from nurses that pharmacists know more than doctors when it comes to that sort of thing. They're really educated.

This semester, her first semester of college, she has a 4.0 grade point average she had in her first semester of pre-pharmacy. Right into college, too. She's doing great. And she's not even just doing that, too. She's also a member of the Cowley. It's Cowley, not Crowley. Cowley. Okay.

The Cowley College Tigerette Dance Line team as well. So she's – even as these activities that she has to do, extracurriculars, she's currently in early 2007, in early January, she is the choreographer for one of their bits at a dance recital that they have. So she's a freshman and she's already, they're trusting her to do choreography already, which is, you know, a freshman. They're like, Hey,

shut up. And whatever sport you're in, they're like, yeah, we don't need to hear from you. So she must show you how this is done. She must really be good, you know,

for them to listen to her. She also on the side teaches kids dance as well. Oh my God. Side job children too. Well, it's a side job too. She's got a night job or whatever. She has a little time on the weekends. She teaches kids

dance. So she's very busy. This girl's going places. You know what I mean? And everybody says gorgeous too. Beautiful girl. I've seen her picture too. She's a gorgeous young lady. Pretty young lady. Has the world by the balls. Not even by the ball. All the way up

at the top of the balls. Where in Funny Farm they said you have to cut them off right up there. Real high. Real high. Up there. The world bows at her feet. Yeah, because she deserves it. That's the thing. Because she's not just like, I'm pretty. She's like, oh, by the

way, I need to do everything right and be good at things I do. And I'll learn it. And I'll learn it. Listen to this. She's not just a dumb person taking minimal courses just to get a grade point average either. Her high school teacher, her chemistry and physics teacher in high school said she was the school's most outstanding physics student. Smart. She's genius at physics. I don't even understand physics,

like, and she's the best student at them. That's crazy. I don't even know what it is. Yeah, I know. That's how much I know that I don't know. I know that that's too out of my pay grade. There's a lot of symbols and exponents to it. That's all I know. Looks like math to me. I don't know. I'm done. That's how I look. Does that look like math? No, I'm out. So her father, Brian, said that he worried most about her safety when she would travel around alone all around the state as a competitive dance person and a competitive dance instructor as well for these kids.

She'd take these kids to dance competitions where she'd coach them you can't you can't do that as a as a pretty girl i mean your dance is sexy in the first place and you're pretty like yeah terrible people are gonna try to get you her father said she's 19 everybody said she's you know stunningly attractive her father's like oh anything could happen but he said that he knew her daughter. She's responsible. She's intelligent. And she stayed in touch all the time by cell phone. She's always calling, saying where she is, where she's going.

Okay, I got here. Okay, I got there. Very careful. She's considered, as far as people who are going to be snatched off the face of the earth and disappear, she's very low risk because she's very visible and always in contact with her family she's not just out there so brian her father said that he's no he noticed as her teen years progressed everywhere they went that boys would be eyeballing her as he put it yeah like oh shit look at that and he said i was never too concerned because jody was the kind of girl or jody was never the kind of girl who egged on anybody she was always kind of quiet and to herself and so he was like i never really worried about her too much she's smart she keeps her head down she does her business

and all that um she drives all around the state in a 2003 black dodge stratus that was her her car which i used to have one of those remember well it's a a BCV6 in that car. It's a decent little car. It's a piece of shit. I drove one for a long time. It is, but it'll get you there. They were cheap. That's why probably she has one too. You can get a used one of those real cheap back in 2004 or 5.

Yeah. So like I said, generations of her family have gone to the school and lived here and everything like that. Her parents have a nice house. And her college, by the way, is only a mile and a half from her house. So it's not even like she has to go very far. Yeah, so there's very little time for anything bad to happen for her. And even on the way there to the school, it passed her parents' business. So she was even all connected there.

Yeah, it's really good. Connected there. Yeah, it's really good. January 5th, 2007, Cindy, her mom, came home from work that morning to help her daughter fix a contact lens she had. So she came home and she said that she saw Jody there that morning and that was good for her, seeing her. And then Jody went off to a late morning practice with the community college Tigerette dance team. And so that day, she gets off in the afternoon from dance, and then she disappears. People call her.

She doesn't answer. Totally unlike her. She doesn't call anybody. She doesn't come home. Her parents don't know where she is. They call her, blowing up her phone nobody knows right away her parents go to the police and because this is a small town and everybody knows each other they don't do the whole well she's an adult 24 hour shit they just go looking for her they just say okay yeah we know her and she's not going to disappear it's not normally parents go well our kid wouldn't disappear and the parents and the police roll their eyes and they go yeah you don't know she might have a

boyfriend she might want to go off and do drugs you have no idea what your kids are up to when they're 19 but they all go no no this kid we got to find her she doesn't run off she had shit to do like she had a place to be that night she had a dance recital thing so if she didn't show up for that she's never not shown up for a dance thing. That's what she's at school for on scholarship for. So she has to show up for that stuff. It's a little, little bit weird here. So immediately the police searched the Arkansas city area. They talked to other members of the dance team. They, they really put together a quick response and a thorough investigation. They really do. They take it seriously. They go right after this. So one dance member, a team member, said she found a note and a rose on her car on her windshield recently and told a local boy who it was from. one night by a light blue car and then three days later seeing the guy who wrote that other girl the

letter and left a rose on her car sitting in that light blue car that was following her on campus near where the dance practices let out what the fuck so there's this guy then weird stuff started happening around campus and to these dance team members like Like Jodi started receiving hang-up calls on her cell phone. Oh, that's weird. That's weird. And in the campus parking lot, female students were reporting having their tires slashed, their cars were bekeyed.

Just female students, attractive female students only. Jodi's best friend was driving home from practice. She noticed a car following closely behind her. She stayed in her car and just drove to the police station, which is a really smart move at that point. Great move. Yeah, come on and get me now. Yeah, okay. Just fucking lay on your horn.

Go out to the police station, lay on your horn. I mean, honestly, they'll come out and go, what's your fucking problem? Well, I don't know, potential murderer behind me. Or you do that, he just drives away probably which good enough you're safe so she did that while sitting in the car she contemplated if she should get out and file a police report because the guy drove away when she pulled up to the police station yeah that's a that's a fucking red flag for sure i would say if he's afraid of cops and he's behind you closely that's weird he's been following you you pulled into the cops and he left.

He took off. That's weird. Yeah. That goes for ladies. If you're out like with a guy and they see a cop and they just like run away, they were going to do something bad to you or they're wanted. Stay with that guy forever. Yeah.

So she contemplates, should I get out and file a police report? But she saw the car drive away and she was like, I'm tired. I just got done with practice i don't feel like going in and doing all that i'm just gonna hassle the guy drove home it's over you know whatever i'll he drove away i'll just go home so she just went home now on their usual walk to the parking lot from dance practice at one point um a car drives up, and this was on the 5th that night. She said on her walk from dance practice, a car drives up. She said that they looked inside, and they saw it was the same car that was following her.

Yeah, it was the 4th, the night before the 5th when she disappeared. She looked at him. He looked familiar and knew who it was the fourth, the night before the fifth when she disappeared. She looked at him. He looked familiar and knew who it was. It's the same guy who was sitting outside with the other girl and the same guy who left shit on the left of note and roses on the windshield there. So she gets a good look at him. It's a guy named Justin. It's always a guy named Justin. It's always Justin.

Always Justin. He's known around the community. He had driven off, though, and when he drove off, this girl, Jody's best friend, walked to her car and noticed that her tire had been slashed. Yeah. So he followed her to the police station and then came and slashed her tire. Wanted her to see it was him, though. Yeah. Could have slashed it and left, but he didn't.

He sat there until she came out, saw him, and then he left. I did that shit. Yeah. I'm the one you should be afraid of. Think about that mentality. I don't just want to hurt you. I need to know that you know that it was me that did it too. Otherwise, I can't get hard.

That's what that says to me. You know what I'm saying? That's what I get. So a stranger walked up and helped her fix the car tire, and then her best friend that day, she calls jody and can't get a hold of jody she's pissed off because like i said that was earlier in the day she calls jody where the jody my fucking car tire there's this pervert guy do you know this guy but she doesn't answer her phone so at that point she hears later on that jody's missing because they did it right

away and they she's her best friend so the parents called her police talked to her she said well there's a guy you need to talk to because he's stalking us all he slashed my car tires left blue car Justin's a real dick blue car Justin sucks and blue car Justin is Justin Eugene Thurber t-h-u-r-b-eE-R born in 1984 he's a few years older than Jody he's about 5 years older 4 years older and 3 I guess a little over 3 he's a big guy

6'2 230 and muscled big guy he's got a different nickname that you're going to call him blue car Justin isn't insulting enough he's got a way more insulting nickname that you're going to call him blue car justin isn't insulting enough he's got a way more insulting nickname that's more fun so he's a big guy um they said that her her his mother said that that day on the fifth um he went to he wants to be a bail bondsman okay really yeah he's worked at kentucky fried chicken and subway and he's up they're calling

him a part-time bail bondsman but he doesn't like have a license to do this he's just going around doing like spec bail bonds work which i don't think you're allowed to do nobody has a a dream and aspiration of becoming a bail bondsman that's not a thing well literally he's really into dog the bounty hunter this is 2007 2006 when dog the bounty hunter was the biggest thing in the world yeah he's really into dog the bounty hunter and that's what he wants to do he wants to be a bounty hunter go you know get bail absconders and shit like that so mom said that he left the house justin did at about 11 a.m on january the 5th, which is the day that Jody disappeared. Mom said that she heard from him by cell phone twice that day.

Once he called to tell her about a bond suspect that he thought he saw. Who cares? You're not a bail bondsman. Who gives a shit? That makes no sense. That would be like if I was like yeah i went over and located some electric lines like yeah that's not your job what are you doing why yeah what are you that's crazy and just climbing poles and fixing fixing shit look loose no i just got a wrench up

there doing shit no it's fine i got you don't know what you're doing i'm just doing a favor i'm just doing a thing for a guy don't worry about it so another time he called on the phone was to say that he needed a ride home from her along us 166 and he she said quote he needed somebody to go get him i told him to call his dad so he does he calls his dad. I'm not picking you up now. Get out of here. Call your father. Call your father. He's got the car.

I'm not doing this. So Kevin, his father, picks him up about 10 to 7 o'clock, about 6.50 p.m. Okay. Along 166. That evening, a police officer who's already been alerted that he's been stalking people by jody's best friend right parked near they saw his car thurber's car justin's car parked near his parents house and he stopped the officer so the father kevin thurber invites the officer inside to speak with his son sure when asked about where were you you know today what you've been up to justin said he drove his car to winfield to meet a friend of his earlier in the day.

When he was there, he and his friend met two people that his friend knew but whom he didn't know. So he met up with a couple of my friends, but I don't know them. He said they drove around in a rural area in a car belonging to one of the friend's friends, one of these unknown people, until the car got stuck on a dirt road near Cedarvale. Okay. On 166, I imagine. Off of there somewhere, yeah. So he said he started just walking alone toward Arkansas City. Just started, said, all right, guys, yeah, you live that way, I live this way.

Just started walking alone out into the highway. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the ride. Thanks. It's been fun. Bye. He eventually called his father, who picked him up. This is after he called his mother, he called his father. Kevin picks him up.

His father said yes. When he picked him up, he happened to be, Justin was all wet and muddy when he picked him up he happened to be he was justin was all wet and muddy when he picked him up all wet and muddy and a little over a mile west from the cowley county state fishing lake jesus a big lake there so he yeah justin told the officer some friends drove his car back from winfield and just left it at his house for him yeah i'm gonna go with them. Will you drive my car back and leave it at my house is a very strange request. Take my car home and then you walk home from my home. That's so weird. Why would you think you would need that?

You don't know the car is going to get stuck in the dirt, so why would you do that? You would just say, yeah, we'll drive back here. Once we get back, I'll take my car and go home. Why would you want? It makes no sense at all. You're forcing these people now to take you back home. That's very weird. So Justin told the cops that, and he said after he got his car, once he got home, he said he picked up his paycheck at Subway, which was his last paycheck because he just got fired from there.

And that was about that, they said. But the problem is the cops place him at Cowley Community College that morning. And he didn't mention that. They said, when were you at the college? He said, I didn't go to the college today. They went, that's funny because there's pictures and security camera footage. It's 2007, bro. Everyone's got a goddamn camera on their phone here.

Maybe not most people have video, but maybe not everyone. But everyone's got a picture they can take on their phone. And every college is swarming with cameras. Tons of cameras, especially by the parking lots where the cars are, where all the crime would happen. So they said on the footage they show Justin's light blue Cadillac at various campus locations with the car entering and exiting campus parking lots multiple times. He came and left multiple times between 101818 and 11.48 a.m. Uh-oh. Yeah.

Two Tigarette dance team members say, yes, they saw him in his vehicle near campus that morning. One, as we know, was Jody's best friend. One said she noticed him as she arrived for practice at 9.50 a.m. The other said she left practice, that's when she saw him, the best friend, 9 at 9 50 a.m the other said she left practice that's when she saw him the best friend at 11 50 a.m okay so that's right when they said he got there was 11 48 so that works out perfectly or when he left was 11 48 so not great here we'll say so around the night goes on they don't have any real evidence to go on so other than him being there right the night goes on about 2 30 a.m one of the investigators says you know what they found

out that thurber justin who lives with his parents now used to live somewhere else where he just recently moved back in with his parents he used to live in a trailer with his girlfriend. This guy has a girlfriend or had a girlfriend. So around 2.30, they say, we got to go search that trailer that he used to live in. An empty trailer I used to live in, he might have something there or he might have stashed something there. That's an alternate place that he has. So let's search there. So they said they got there.

Only a few pieces of furniture remained. But they said they searched it from top to bottom. They just told the landlord that there was a teenage girl missing and they needed to go in and look around right away. So they said, sure, go around. Go look around. Worked. I mean, I would do it if I had an empty trailer and cops said, teenage girl missing. Looking in this trailer can help.

I'd go, all right, I don't know. Fucking look around then. What do I care? Then you judge the shit out of Justin whether or not. Yeah yeah my weed's not in there go ahead yeah i don't care i don't care plus it's it's also yeah nosy you want to be nosy a little bit that same evening they found out that justin had a girlfriend till very recently like a few days ago really her name is alexis Swartswell, and she recently dumped him. They had been in a three-year relationship. Oh.

So this guy has been getting laid regular up until a week ago, which is crazy. They were together for three years. She dumped him earlier in the week. She told the cops that Justin took her often to the Kaw, K-A-W, wildlife area southeast of Arkansas City. And she said, yeah, we used to go out and visit out there and sit and have sex and things like that. Right, yeah.

She said that, they said, by the way, about his sexual behavior, is he normal or what's his deal there? And she said, well, his behavior is weird as fuck. She said when she was interested in a sexual encounter he wasn't interested she could not coax him into sex justin oh but if she did not want a sexual encounter or resisted she said he would get excited and have to have sex oh yeah that's he's got a great fantasy he's got a little peppy lepew in him and that's not good you know what i mean it'll come here that's not too good here so that's bad he she also testified that he choked her during sex not because she asked him to just because he

wanted to just on a whim did it he wants to choke he can't do that that turns him on not her yeah so she said one episode in which he kept tightening and relaxing his grip around her neck. She'd almost pass out, and he'd let her go, and then he kept bringing her, like, you know, to the brink of passing out and back and over and over again. Edging is for death, not for sex, not for death. For Christ's sake, you can't. He's edging death. Yeah.

Yeah, that's not good. Because that turned him on, though, the fact that he was choking her almost out. And then bringing her back. And then he gets to choke her out again. Oh, my God. Every time he brings her back, he gets to choke her out again and get all excited again. Another time, he used his arm and applied constant pressure across her neck, which there's nothing sexy about that. No.

People like a little choke here and there, but not put your forearm in my throat like we're fucking, like we're in a bar fight. This is crazy. Yeah, like I'm being arrested. The girlfriend here, Alexis, also said that against her will, he enjoyed sodomizing her with small plastic objects, she said. Oh, my God. Whatever, I don't know, G.I. Joe men or whatever was around that he just, I don't know, but that's what he was into. He liked to stick things inside of her that she wasn't asking for. She said that shortly before the breakup, they had visited the Call Wildlife area several times where they had sex at that point.

She described the sex while they were there always as rough very rough she said that while sitting there i guess in the post glow uh post coital glow there post rape yeah that's that was more of a sarcastic uh that was pretty fucking bad but she said that he once remarked that this remote part of the area here this would be a great place to hide a body. He said that, quote, it would just wash away. And she said that always had an appetite for violent sex and then also said it seemed like he had a split personality toward the end of their relationship.

He would act really different. She put up with this for three years? Three years. And we'll talk about who she put up with here. Who is Justin Thurber? Let's let's discuss this here. Number one, his house is four blocks from Jody's. OK, so very, very close. Very neighbor. They both live there their whole lives. Yeah. OK. He lived with his parents around this time because he had just broken up with his girlfriend. So he lived four blocks away for a while in late 2006 he worked part-time at the local subway where jody regularly ate yeah then um jesus this is bad advertisement between jared and this fucking guy well between justin and jared you're really screwing up subway's reputation here everybody and puning the shit out of them well she's she's a uh a dance girl so she's probably and and that yeah that's a huge thing at this time yeah tuna lots of protein

lean yep absolutely i could see that coming so she's been eating fresh and lean or whatever the hell their slogans are she's doing her best she's doing her best and he had worked also at KFC, and that's where he worked. He worked with his girlfriend, Alexis, at KFC. And so this is wild. Now, Justin had been, apparently, according to a friend of his, he was taunted as a child, and then he got a little bigger and just became a bully himself. So that's what all of his neighbors said. They said that he would terrorize people around the neighborhood. They said he would lash out at, quote, neighbors and children and anyone.

Oh. That's not great. Because everybody's a target. Yeah. He would show, well, and then it got worse with women. When he was about 18, he would show started showing aggressive tendencies toward women here, according to some issues he had in December 2001. He allegedly followed another teenage girl. And this is when he's, you know, what, 17 at that point. He followed another teenage girl roughly seven miles to her home from a blockbuster video store in Arkansas City.

Seven miles following her? He followed her all the way home wow looking for i don't know what just i don't know what his fantasy was but he what is that followed her all the way home maybe she rented the last copy of what he wanted we don't know he's gonna make her an offer um he hasn't seen titanic in 2001 yet no no she realized what was going on so she ran into her house. She got out of her car and ran in the house, and then her mother came out of the house like a bat out of hell, jumped in the car, and fucking chased after him. Good. Yeah, the mother chased after him and wrote down the tag number of his car. And it was a 1988 Chevy registered to Justin Thurber.

Yeah. Problem. So when police went to the Thurber home, he denied it, said I didn't do it, but would not give the police department an interview. Refused. Really? Yeah. He said, you want to arrest me? Arrest me.

But otherwise, I'm not talking to you. That was that. Yeah. He said she said thing, I guess. He said. And he didn't. Just the stalking at that point point just driving behind someone isn't really a crime you know so who knows he could he could say i like that car i wanted to see if it

handled well i don't fucking i was going somewhere nearby her home and she just happened to be going that way felt like driving that direction you could really say anything at that point because he didn't do anything so in july of 2004 he left a note outside of a wellness center in Arkansas City. He left a note requesting sex inside of a young woman's unlocked car. What? Yeah. She gave the note to the cops. She called the cops because someone came in her car and gave the note.

It was a note saying, yeah, I want sex. So he had been charged with a bunch of misdemeanors over the years. Battery, burglary, forgery, theft, drug possession. None of them were serious enough to get a jail term, though. He's always, like, arrested and gets out and, you know, probation. He's off. Petty shit. Petty shit.

Nothing big here. So the Swartzwells, the Swartzels, his girlfriend, he knows the whole family for a long time. Justin, who is Alexis' brother, Justin has known the other Justin. Justin and Justin have known each other since they were about eight years

old. They played on the same youth soccer team. So this Justin Swartzwell, the friend of Justin here, he said they were friends at that point and he felt sorry for blue car Justin. He said quote, he was ridiculed a lot.

People picking on him when he was younger. He said kids made fun of his facial features. He's a goofy looking motherfucker, Justin. Oh, really? They'll describe it here. He had, this is the way the paper described it. Short hair, a broad nose thick brow prominent ears caveman he looked like a caveman but by the sixth grade he had a full-on full-blown moniker that every quote everyone in town called him that is what his friend justin said and it was quote monkey, my God. You don't want to be known as monkey boy.

Based on your face. Because you look like a fucking monkey. He looks like when someone imitates a monkey and they put their ears out and they make a monkey face to a kid. That's what he looks like in his school photos. He just looks like a monkey child. He does. It's a good nickname. I got to say, mean, terrible, awful, but accurate.

Kids are honest. That's one thing you got to give kids. If you look like a monkey, they go, hey, monkey boy. There is no bullshit with kids. Right away. You're monkey boy. Period. Done.

My sister's husband is from Wisconsin, and when he moved to Arizona, they called him Sunshine Boy because he is just white as it gets. He is sunshine. Yeah. That's it. Honest. He's clear. It's hilarious.

That's what they're honest, man. So Monkey Boy, he said everyone in town called him that. I can see the adults. Yeah. You go to the ice cream shop and they're like what do you have monkey boy an old lady i'm 22 stop saying that how many scoops monkey boy it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Monkey boy. Oh, God. We have Chunky Monkey. So he played for the Ark City High School football team, actually. He played for the ark city high school football team actually he played for the team he played

wasn't a big star or anything but he played he was a lineman you know backup lineman here so justin his friend justin swartzman the his girlfriend's brother said that a lot of people started to hate him after a while and they one of the weird things because he's kind of a weird guy is at about age 13 justin thurber had told justin you know justin blue car told justin swartswell here that justin blue car at that time would hide behind the sanderholm house jody's house at the time when he was a kid, and spy on Jody and her older sister Jennifer through a window while they changed. That's called peeping Tom, sir.

Yeah, that's called peeping Tom. And that's also a sign bad things can come from that. Yeah. Like, we always see these old movies in, like, the 50s, every kid's in a tree with binoculars looking at a kid. And it's all like, hey, ha- haha, he wants to see some tits. And that's fine, but out of those kids, 10% of those kids are like,

I need to see what's inside of a woman. They don't just want to see tits. They got to like fillet you as well. It's also different when they're because they're not tugging at eight. You know what I mean? They're looking for tits because they're a child and it's funny. Well, back then you couldn't find tits either in the 50s.

There was nowhere to see tits. You saw those tits. You locked them in a spank bank and you jerked it to those tits until you were 17. You know what I'm saying? Until you saw another pair. Until you saw another pair. That's all there was to it. Whereas nowadays there's no excuse for peeping.

You can find tits. You can find them. Holy. Anywhere. They're everywhere. You know, just if you have a phone, t are there so that's what they said so justin told said that justin blue car used to do that and told him about it when he was a kid and um so that's pretty pretty bad jody would have been about nine and her sister would have been about 12 or 13 and justin was about 13 so yeah it's

pretty pretty weird now even in all of his yearbook pictures, he doesn't show up like in any of the – you know, the yearbooks have like the actual class picture, like your picture sitting there, and then they have like all the teams, and they have just pictures of people doing shit. You know what I mean? Yeah, just random shit throughout the year. In any of those pictures. Wow. He's only in his football team picture and his class picture that's it you know

his regular picture picture i think in four years i was in one that's what i mean but they make a big deal out of that this is a smaller school too i know the school you went to is a much bigger school so it's different same thing with my school this is a small there's only 12 000 people in the whole town how many kids can be in the high high school? I think there was 25 at my school. 2,500. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was huge.

So he acted in cruelty, with cruelty, everybody said, because people were cruel to him. So Thurber himself, Justin Thurber, would call people names because of that. And his friend said, quote, he would be mean first most of the time. He just had a mean spirit to him. Wow. So they said instead of trying to like win people over, he went out of his way to make people dislike whole time. That's, yeah. One example he said is one time they were driving around, the Justins, and Thurber got irritated because a child crossed the street too slowly in front of them. Oh, God.

He hates kids, man, the most. They said that Thurber would bolt from the car, yank off his belt, and chase the child trying to whip him with his belt down the street to get out of the road. But he chased him halfway down the block. Not kidding either. Like, you little motherfucker swinging a belt at him as the kid ran for their life. Just out of the passenger seat. Pop right out of the car.

Even the driver's seat. He'd throw the e-brake on and get out there and start going. Throw it in park and he'd be chasing the kid down the street. They were like, holy, what is happening here? They said they'd start whipping. He'd start whipping the kid and Justin Swartswell said he'd have to get out and pull him off of him. Pull the kid.

Oh my God. Thurber away from the kid. Dude, get off the kid. What are you doing? And he's still swinging the belt. That little motherfucker. What is that? He's in a rage.

I mean, he said it happened at least three times that he can think of. Thrice. This one, not once, not twice, but thrice in the words of the dude on 90 Day Fiance. Yes, thrice this happens. Three damn times. Three times. That happens once. I'm not driving around with that asshole anymore.

No. After twice, I'm really not. But the third time, that's on you. Fool me thrice, double shame on me. I'm a moron. But he had to pull him off of him. Holy shit. Swartswell said that Thurber's bullying of other people and beating children and things like that are what ended his friendship with him.

Sure. Yeah. So they stopped hanging out about five, six years ago. Very logical. But about four years ago, he ended up going out with Justin's sister now. So Justin wants rid of this kid. Justin Swartswell wants rid of Justin Thurber. Instead, he gets him dating his sister, Alexis.

Right. I have to see the Thanksgiving now. God damn it. So Justin Swartswell said he stayed away from his sister pretty much their whole relationship for years because he didn't want to deal with Justin Thurber. So he said he just stayed away. Ruined his sister's relationship. Yep. So back to summer of 2001, give you a little background on Thurber here.

He was working at the KFC in Arkansas City. Yeah. And let's see. One of his co-workers was a pretty 16-year-old girl who was 4'11", 115 pounds. Tiny little girl. Tiny, tiny little teenage girl here. So he overpowered her. He was much bigger. What he did was he parked at the back of the store, of the back of the store parking lot, and said, hey, come here.

And she came over to talk to him in the window. They're co-workers. They just worked the whole shift together. As she talked to him from outside the car, he grabbed her and pulled her in through his car window. Oh, my God. Which is, who does that? That's insane. That's kidnapping.

Which is, who does that? You know, that's insane. That's outside of like a kidnapping in a movie where you see a kid's little feet kicking out the window as they're pulled through or something. Outside of that, you don't see that very often. That's amazing. Pulled her in the car. That wasn't enough, though. He kept her in the car for three hours.

He didn't take off. He just pulled her in the car and held her in the car. Held her there holding her to where she said quote, I couldn't move and he wouldn't let me go. What the fuck? Yes. Eventually he let her leave, but he did the same thing to her three more times within a month.

Four? Once a week he's doing this to her. Wow. He would get angry to the point of making fists and being like in a rage if she didn't get into the car so after like the second time she'd just get in the car because he didn't she'd want to be yanked through the window again holy shit so she he scared this poor girl into compliance with this shit yeah and once uh one of the times that she got in the car he groped her as part of holding her for three hours. He was groping her and making sexual advances.

Another time she she was driving and he followed her all the way out of town driving. So she said she didn't tell the police about it, though, because, quote, I was too scared what he would do. Yeah, he was terrible she was terrified of him she's 16 that's a logical thing to think and he literally weighs twice as much as her right and he's a big guy a foot and a half taller than her dad though do you whisper oh my god i think you do whisper it i think you burst in if that's my daughter i want her bursting in the door like her hair is on fire going dad dad get this fucking baseball bat and follow me i don't even i'll explain on the way yeah i'll make this man never uh he's pulling me in like a nascar driver we need to talk yeah my daughter comes in and just says grab the bat and we'll go

i'll go i'll grab the bat on spec and you can tell me on the way i believe you let's go you know fuck it's happening right you have You have a daughter. Am I kidding? No, my God, forget it. Forget it. You're going. So for man,

it's a lot. So here's another crazy story. In 2006, for about four months, uh, Alexis and Justin, uh, Thurber. So boyfriend,

girlfriend, and Alexis's daughter, Alexis has a daughter, not his daughter. Thank God. A small small daughter here like a four-year-old uh-huh we'll say so for about four months in 2006 justin thurber alexis and the daughter all lived with the swartzwells the parents alexis and justin's parents yeah so So the mother's name is Darcy. So, Jesus Christ, they said that Darcy said that Thurber still talked about the monkey boy taunts all the time. Yeah, I believe it.

Like, he'd be like, fucking people in this town calling me monkey boy. Like, he was 24. I don't know if anybody's still calling him monkey boy or not. But he's a giant 24-year-old lunatic. Behind his back, though, probably. know that's that's all it is so they said she said they still he still talked about that darcy said quote he had talked to my daughter about it and how bad that that had hurt him apparently these monkey boy that sent him over the edge yeah that made him crazy darcy the mom also said that she couldn't feel sorry for thurber though because Thurber abused her daughter, Alexis, and picked on her granddaughter.

Oh? Picked on the child. Remember, he hates kids. What did he do to her? Well, Darcy said, quote, terrorizes, what I would call it. He terrorized, she terrorized, he terrorized a child. This is wild. Darcy said that, oh, my God.

She said, Jesus Christ. Thurber played too roughly with the granddaughter. He would throw her down onto the couch. He would eat food off of her plate and just pull the legs off of her dolls just to make her cry. And then he'd laugh. What the fuck? He's like a sadistic five-year-old. Yeah.

That's what a sadistic five-year-old would do. That's what a sadistic five-year-old would do. A five-year-old that needs a good spanking. Just like, I'm taking your food. Ha-ha, your dolls are ripped off. I'm going to go over here. And then the father comes in and goes, you little son of a bitch. Oh, Jesus. And scares the shit out of the kid.

And the mother comes in and smacks him on the ass and wakes him up or something. It's a very frozen age behavior. Weird part is the girl was four and he was 23 so you know usually you don't pick on four-year-olds when you're 23 darcy wow that's that's crazy so they also said one time and this is the uh this is alexis's grandparents here that we're talking about bill who is darcy's father he said that once someone brought a small dog when they came to the house okay he said that he saw justin thurber angrily grab the dog by the neck and pick it up and draw back as if to throw it he's getting ready to throw this dog and the

father here the grandfather stepped in and said quote i told him not to throw this dog. And the father here, the grandfather, stepped in and said, quote, I told him not to throw the dog. And he put it down. Hey, please don't throw that dog. Thank you. They also said that Thurber picked on the neighbors and picked on everybody. He was muscular and he would pull his shirt off and pace back and forth in the front yard or by the street and scream at curse scream and curse at neighbors for what they said was quote no logical reason trying to get a fight going what's going they said that he would glare at people as they drove by just driving by um they

said the mother darcy said quote the police were just here constantly another, a little more erratic behavior, just to, as if you're not convinced, convinced Justin's nuts. I got more. Okay. A next door neighbor named Marie, uh, who by the way is in her eighties or she's 79 here.

Yeah. She said that one time Justin Thurber yelled at her to quote, shut up. As she stood at her door, listening to him, yell at her son outside. It's just her adult son who was doing nothing wrong. She said, quote, it surprised me when he said it because I wasn't even saying anything.

My mouth wasn't open. He said, you're a motherfucker and you blah, blah, blah, and you shut up. And she's like, huh? I'm standing here. He yelled at an old lady, an 80-year-old woman, to shut up, who wasn't even talking. That's, wow. She also described his behavior as erratic. She said he could be nice at times, and then the next time it could be reversed.

He came to her door one night to alert her that a building on the block behind her was on fire. So that was nice. And then he yelled at her to shut up for no reason and tried to start a fist fight with her son. Darcy, Alexis' and Justin's mom, said, quote, I'd try so hard to like him and give him another chance but there was just always something else.

She said during his stay at her house, he loved to watch Dog the Bounty Hunter and would always say how he's going to be the best bounty hunter too, just like Dog. He's going to be great. Bounty Hunter and would always say how he's going to be the best bounty hunter, too, just like Dog. He's going to be great. Wow. He also would use her home computer and all that kind of shit.

She said that he didn't seem to have too many hobbies, but the only hobbies we can find for this guy is a lot of people say he was a regular on bingo nights at the VFW post. Yeah, but that's where everybody goes. So he'd go, but it was literally him and like 80-year-olds is who he played with. Him and veterans. Yeah, they said he played with like World War II veterans and shit, you know, Korean War veterans. It was a lot of like people over 70 is who he hung out with, which is strange for a 22-year-old.

That's weird. So they said that he also, Thurber would brag, that he would tell people that he was making money playing for a semi-pro football team in Oklahoma, but he wouldn't ever go to Oklahoma, and he was a backup in high school. So it makes no sense. He's not playing semi-professional football.

But that's what he'd tell people. I play semi-pro football, and I'm a bounty hunter, which sounds a lot cooler than I used to work at Subway until I got fired and I worked at KFC until I got fired for groping some chick. That sounds worse. I couldn't afford my trailer, so I moved back in with my mom after my girlfriend, who already has a child, kicked me out. Because I ripped the legs off of her dolls and tried to fight the neighbor ladies and children. Whoa. So his relationship with Alexis, on October 17, 2006, Justin Thurber agreed to a $7,500 workers' compensation settlement with American Waste Management. But she worked there. He agreed to pay $1,700 of that to his lawyer,

and then he claimed to be injured in job-related activities in 2005 and 2006. He worked at the recycling center, the recycling facility at the Strother Field Industrial Park for a while. He made about $300 a week when he was doing that. He made about $300 a week when he was doing that. A week after the settlement, he paid $3,150 in cash for a 1993 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Fuck yeah. At a used car. That's the light blue Cadillac that he's been following people around in.

So that's where that started. So he blew almost his entire settlement on that because he had $5,800 or so left after he paid his lawyer, and he blew $3,150 of it on a car. But if you need a car, you need a car. Shortly after they began living, him and Alexis and Alexis' daughter started living in a rented trailer, the place that the cops searched at 2.30 in the morning. Their landlord said he had to confront Justin Thurber because, quote, he was yelling at neighbors and making obscene gestures. Oh, boy. Wow. The landlord said I had to threaten him. From that day forward

he was always nice, though. Landlord had to come in and lay the law down here. So he said he had problems, though. He was nice to neighbors, but he still had problems with Justin. The landlord said that he suspected it was Justin Thurber who switched the address numbers on Thurber's home with another home at the park. Why did he do that? Didn't want someone to find him, so he switched the numbers, which is stupid.

Yeah. Well, when you're looking, they're all in sequential probably. So you probably go, well, how come it goes – Why are 18 and 19 reversed? Yeah. Why is it go 7, 12, 8? That don't make no sense. 7, 12, 9, and then 8 after 11.

I don't understand that shit. That doesn't make any damn sense. So they said a man who identified himself as a private investigator told the landlord he'd been trying to conduct surveillance on thurber in connection with the workers compensation claim but he'd been watching the wrong house because of the address switch that's why yeah he did a thwart an insurance investigator wow trying to not get his car repoed he switched the lot numbers on the trailer and then he didn't pay his rent justin thurber so he's evicted within two months so his parents uh moved his things out on like january 1st 2007 basically january 2nd or so the week this all went down and alexis said she at during that month had ended there during

december and ended the three-year relationship with Justin Thurber because, many other reasons, abused her daughter, went crazy around the mother, abused her during sex, choked her, pulled her hair, stuck things in her butt that she didn't want there. Shit piles of reasons. Shit piles of reasons. Another woman said that in the summer of 2000, when she was 14 and Justin was 17,

Justin Thurber pulled her into the bedroom of a home where friends had gathered and tried to pull her pants off after pressing a pillow over her face. Oh, my God. That's terrifying. She said she kicked a wall and tried to scream and someone had to push through the door, which Justin had partially blocked with a dresser. What the fuck? Yes. So she got up and she said at that point justin got up when somebody burst

through the door but he said i'm gonna take you in here i'm gonna pull something in front of the door i'm gonna hold a pillow over your face and try to have my way with you yeah disturbing so he said she said she told her mother about it but not till two years later by then it was she said i was embarrassed and ashamed i was only 14 years old and i didn't understand that it wasn't my fault right yeah another woman says that justin took her to a rural area in early 2006 this is by the way while he's in a relationship with alexis and had her take her clothes off and pulled a knife on her. Made her do that.

The woman said her child was with her during this. Oh, boy. He did this in front of a kid, man. He does not care. This is a cold son of a bitch. That's a dangerous man. She said that they were able to get away from him, though, so don't know how. January 3rd, 2007. This is two days before Jody disappears.

Right. Remember, he had been working part time at the subway there and he had been fired right before that because he's crazy. One of the reasons he's been fired is because there's a girl named Nicole Topper and he kept trying to get her into. He kept trying to get into her car, saying his car had broken down and all this type of shit he kept trying to just let me in just like he would like bang on her windows of her cars and shit so this is a week after he got fired she called the cops the cops said well he's does he threatening you no is he doing anything no they said well the best we can do is we can give you an escort in and out of the subway if you want you know pull into the parking lot we'll be waiting for you she said yeah absolutely give me a police escort in there so she

did um january 4th the day before the disappearance the police escorted nicole into the subway where she was the manager she had requested it obviously because of justin um the next day the fifth she also had a police escort going to work. But they didn't have enough evidence to charge Justin with anything here. He contended Justin went to the police station and complained to the police chief that the cops were up his ass all the time and it's bullshit. Yeah, he came in and said, Wallace was the assistant chief, the guy's name. He said that Thurber came into his office to complain that officers were harassing him over various cases. Number one, he had been arrested four days before that. Right.

He got arrested on New Year's Day because police arrested him on suspicion of impersonating an officer and disorderly conduct. Who did he put? impersonating an officer and disorderly conduct. Well, he claimed to be working for a bail bondsman and identified himself to a resident as an Arkansas City Police officer. Idiot. He wasn't working for a bondsman or a cop. He was just going around acting important. Somebody probably wasn't even a absconder.

Yeah, he was just acting important. It was probably some girl that he wanted to fucking kidnap or something. So he complained when they took him kidnap or something. He complained when they took him to the police station, he complained of chest pains. They said to avoid any medical liability, they took him to the hospital instead.

They suspected that he might have been faking, but they said, who knows, so they just let him go. They said, though, even if he had been put in jail, he would have been bonded out in the next day. So he would have still been out on the 5th. It doesn't matter. Another thing he did was he stalked the Tigarettes more than we thought.

The whole thing? Yeah, the whole team. Especially Elizabeth Rush, Stacia Barrera, and Lori Leglighter. Elizabeth Rush said she left dance practice before jody on the day jody disappeared as she drove away she saw thurber sitting in the cadillac in an entrance near the college parking lot she also saw him parked in a car near the lot entrance the day before as she was leaving dance practice barrera said she found a note and a rose on her car in 2004 this is his thing that he does because he did it to somebody else too.

The note was signed by Justin saying he wanted to get to know her and said, hey, give me a call. She thinks that's romantic. She just threw the note away because she didn't know it was some stalker. She just went, oh, some college guy is trying to fuck me, whatever, and threw it away. Leglighter, she said that on January 2 2nd 2007 three days before jody disappeared after her evening shift at an arkansas city restaurant she saw a light blue car slowly drive by she couldn't

make out the driver but described him as a larger person who appeared to be looking at her yeah as she drove home she noticed the same car driving slowly on the road in front of her. She passed the car, but then started to get concerned when she noticed it behind her making turn after turn. Right. Yeah. So she made additional turns to see if the car was really following her and then became worried that it was because it was turning. I am very impressed that these young ladies are so thorough with their rearview mirror.

I could not give a fuck about what's behind me. Also, I think in Phoenix, there's always someone behind you. That's why. So you're used to it. If you're in a small town like this, I think you notice if there's a car always behind you because it's rural. There's not a lot of people out here. There just isn't. If it's dark, the headlights certainly get your attention.

You notice, why is this one car behind me? Where the fuck is it going? Why is it making turn after turn after? In Phoenix, you'd never notice all the turns. Who knows? There's a million cars. So she, again, these young ladies are smart. Where did she drive?

Arkansas City Police Station. Hell yeah. Parked outside. She drove home. She passed the gas station because the car drove away when she stopped so she took off as she passed a gas station the car pulled out of the gas station parking lot he said the gas station waited for her wow so she did a loop around and went drove back to the police station and on the way called several people telling them what was going on several

of her friends so they knew it was up. And eventually, she, as she said, she acted like she was going one way, but made a quick turn and sped home using back roads and lost him. Genius. She took off. Yeah, this girl's smart as shit. Leg lighter. These dancers are all smart. All these college.

Incredible. All the tigerettes are sharp. Yeah. All the Tigarettes are sharp. Leglighter also describes seeing the light blue car again on January 5th, the day of Jody's disappearance, when arriving for dance practice at the college. She said the car passed her. She made eye contact with the driver whom she recognized as Justin Thurber. She walked to practice and told her teammates, including Jody, that Thurber was the driver who followed her a few nights earlier and to look out for this fucking guy yeah okay after the disappearance after all of this evidence the

cops say we really should concentrate on this justin thurber he's the only guy doing all this so um they say later on uh this is later the later on, next thing he does, he's looking for the Cowley College dance line team, and he follows them, and he gets Jody. We know we have evidence to show that he was near Jody's home. Jody didn't know him. Somehow, he got in that car, and he drove her out of town in Jody's car. drove her out of town in Jody's car. Okay. They said that this has to be, it's right after he tried to abduct Topper two days before that.

So here's some other stuff here. Fellow subway employees, Megan Malloy and Nicole Hayes, more subway employees. What the fuck? On January 2nd, Malloy noticed Justin Thurber drive by the subway where she and Thurber worked on January 2nd while she was doing her closing routine at 10 p.m. She said he made several more passes, which concerned her. She called the subway store manager who told her to write down her complaint. That's not going to help when he murders you in the parking lot.

What the fuck? Write it down. If he murders you, that way we'll know who did it. Thanks. Write it down. That doesn't help at all. She said she wrote, quote, Justin has drove by here at least 12 times since I closed 15 minutes ago. I don't want to work with him.

He's creeping me out. He's been calling me up here about stupid shit. He just drove by again. Please don't make me work with him. And that's when she requested police escorts also. So multiple girls need police escorts

to go to work. At Subway. Yeah. The manager said that she hired Thurber in December 2006 and she said the day that he filled out his new hire paperwork, she found this is the manager, she found on her windshield a card from him and a rose what the card read first time i saw your beautiful eyes and smile i just haven't been able to stop

thinking of you beautiful you're always in my heart you single what dude that is fart first first of all you single because i think you're beautiful not all this shit i want to fuck you by the way you're not like attached or anything are you beautiful several times and then you're always in my heart i just i've known you for five minutes you know what though when i was filling out my w-2 i don't know what it when you said put your social security make sure you get it in the boxes it just turned me on man i just said wow she's so when you said this is your tax information i can't help you with it at all legally yeah it was so hot i don't know how when you told me i don't know how

many dependents you should claim i was like wow this chick is banging right now all the questions you asked about exempt status was ah sexy i Jesus. Sexy. I can't get enough. You big, sexy, exempt motherfucker, you. Look at you. So this manager also described how Justin Thurber approached her as she arrived at the restaurant door on January 3, 2007 at 6.30 a.m. Jesus, he's up early, for Christ's sake. He wore a black jacket, black stocking cap, jeans, and boots. He told her his car was broken down and he needed a ride home.

She has said she unlocked the door and went inside where she found the other girl's note from the previous night going. Justin's a creep. I don't want to work with him. Blah, blah, blah. And here he is. So when Justin approached the door, the manager said she didn't have time to give him a ride home, and she locked the door to keep him out. She said that he walked away, but she saw him driving by 10 minutes later, and then she asked for a police escort at work the following morning. The cop's got to go, listen, why don't we just take care of him?

What are we doing? We have to escort all the women in and out of the subway? This is insane. Why is everybody afraid of this man? He just claimed his car's broken down, and then he drove off in it. That's insanity. Holy shit. So when she arrived after meeting with the police, she attempted to open the door, but discovered someone jammed wood in the keyhole. What?

Okay. Yeah, he's a weird guy so january 6th 2007 the day after jody disappeared it's a saturday uh detective eric mata arrests justin thurber on a bond revocation and suspicion of criminal trespass because the investigation into jody's disappearance showed he had been on the college campus where the detective believed he wasn't supposed to be. Right. You shouldn't be there if you're out on bond. And he's out on bond.

So the detective arrests him about 9.45 p.m. on Saturday night, January the 6th. He did not read Thurber his Miranda rights for some reason. I don't know why he chose not to do that. rights for some reason. I don't know why he chose not to do that, but he told, it doesn't matter because Thurber told the cop that he wanted to speak to his attorney and no questions were given. So rights are not,

but you still have to read their rights when they're arrested. So Thurber said, I want to speak with my attorney. So that evening officers searched Justin Thurber's parents' home where he'd been living recently. They collected the shoes he wore when his father picked him up that day. The shoes were wet and drying on a towel.

Still wet. Well, they were wet because they'd been cleaned off. They got washed off. Justin's father said that he helped Justin clean the mud off his shoes. After arriving at the police department, Thurber told a cop that he wanted to speak with Mata, the detective who arrested him. That guy, Mata, comes into the holding room, Thurber told a cop that he wanted to speak with Mata, the detective who arrested him. That guy, Mata, comes into the holding room, meets him. Thurber said that he, quote, wanted to get this over with.

Oh. So we don't know what he wants to get over with, the questioning or a confession or what do we want to get over with here. He just said, I want to get this over with. So Thurber said, transfer me to the county or transport me to the county jail fuck it just take me to jail if you think I did something so then he said hold on I'll talk

to Mata if my attorney can come to the police station too like if I have my attorney I'll talk to you if I talk to my attorney first I'll talk to you Mata asked Thurber for the attorney's phone number and Thurber said that the number was at his house. But then he said, the attorney's probably at the bar, this local bar that they hang out at.

You can probably just reach her there, my attorney. So instead of trying to call the attorney, Mata says, he says that, well, you just broke up with your girlfriend and starts talking about that. Rather than talk about the case, he starts talking about other things and doesn't call his attorney though. So yeah, he just says, well, did you just break up with your girlfriend? He said, oh yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Three years. That's a long time. It must be rough on you. They also talked about his bond revocation, which has nothing to do with this as well. Then Mata said, by the way, where were you on january 5th between 11 a.m and 11 p.m god damn it thurber then said i'd like to have my attorney present to

talk about that so moda said this quote this is ron recording quote it's probably not a good idea that she comes down here if she's been drinking at a bar what does that have anything to do with it if she's drunk she probably she probably you know this won't be a good time so rather than have a drunk lawyer you'll just have nobody and i'll just do whatever i want oh my god you it's not up to the cop to decide right what if when you want your lawyer there if you've asked for your lawyer well you don't want them now they're in the middle of lunch i figure it's noon so they're probably eating so i'm not going to call them is not a thing that you're allowed to do and whether or not they're fit for duty is that is that not up to you decision nope not at all you can hire the drunkest lawyer you want doesn't matter he

can come in stinking of booze with a bottle of zanger i'm here to see my client and if the guy if the lawyer if the fucking suspect says, that's my lawyer and I want to talk to him, they might be able to tell him to take the bottle and put it away. But outside of that, there's really little they can do at that point. So Thurber said he wanted his father with him then before he would talk. Well, if not my lawyer, my father. Then he said, maybe my mother can be allowed to be in the room.

Somebody. It depends. Have they had any drinks tonight? Somebody smarter and older who hasn't drank anything. Mata said that, listen, you're going to have to waive your right to be silent and to an attorney if your parents are here, which makes no sense. No, that's not true at all. But Thurber said, okay.

He basically made a deal with them. How about if I let your parents come into the interview room? Then you waive your rights. Then you waive your rights, which he didn't have to waive anything. He could have just let his parents be in there. So his parents arrived. Thurber first speaks with his parents privately. Afterward, Mata, the detective, asks if Thurber's ready to give a statement.

Thurber said that he was not talking talking and I'm not going to answer any questions without my attorney, which is what any good parents would tell their kid to say. You know what I mean? So Mata became angry and told Thurber he, quote, was not going to be playing these games anymore.

I'm not going to play all these civil rights games. I'm not playing all this constitutional bullshit with you. Not doing it. I'm not not gonna do my job tonight i will not play these you have a right to an attorney bullshit and you've clearly requested one i won't play that shit no so he began just began photographing justin instead okay taking pictures of him Then Mara and Justin start discussing a previous criminal case. He's trying to like ease his way in through a back door of another case which is very weird. What if I take some tasteful pictures of you then? What if I, we do

it tastefully. How about you put just, you put one leg on table but you bend the inside so I cannot see, you know? Give me idea what I am seeing on the inside. You know what I mean? Sexy, very sexy. So he said that Thurber asked for a promise

that he wouldn't be charged for stalking if he gave a statement about his whereabouts the previous day. Mata said he couldn't make any promises. So, by the way, nobody has read him Miranda rights at all. What the fuck, man? man nobody not when he's arrested not when he gets to the station not when never it's never he's never heard you have the right to remain silent yet from anybody it's an incredibly viable suspect don't fuck this up oh

he's just dancing on his on that shit dancing on it so about 11 p.m a conduct uh kansas i said kentucky kansas bureau of investigation special agent david filetti joins the questioning he gives thurber a written miranda rights waiver and recites it and does the whole thing initial here you know like a professional would do you ever watch an entire watch any interrogation on youtube every single one starts with just got to get these rights here. Do you understand that? Okay. Initial that one, that one, sign at the bottom. They read it line by line. It's part of the process. I love that. Let's get

this out of the way. You know, this hassle over here. This hassle. Holy shit. So he begins doing that. Before he could finish, Thurber interrupted, listed off his rights and said he knew them. And then he completed and signed the waiver. He just said them off the top of his head, every right that was there, recited it, and

then he waived it, did whatever. So he signed it. This Folletti, this new guy, the Bureau of Investigation guy, said that he understood that Thurber had previously requested an attorney, but recontacted us and asked for Detective Mata. And Thurber said yes. So he's here voluntarily. Folletti confirmed, quote,

we're allowed to talk to you now because you came to us. And Thurber said yes. And they said, okay, you can stop answering questions at any time. And then he told Mata and Folletti about his whereabouts the day before. So they somehow got him to do this. At least they got the rights in first. Thurber said he woke up at 11 a.m they somehow got him to do this. At least they got the rights in first. Yeah. Thurber said he woke up at 11 a.m.,

which we know isn't true. We know he was at the college at 9.50. Yeah. He drove around for a short period before stopping at a gas station. He then went looking for the biological father of Alexis Swartswell's daughter. Oh.

No idea why. No. Maybe see if he's got any other kids he can punk beat up fuck let's go put bubble gum in his armpit any other kids you got i want to mess with them so they're not even together anymore so i don't know what his deal with that is um around this time he was pulled over for a traffic violation okay what is it with all these guys always get pulled over constantly too have you seen that brian coberger guy he got pulled over like three times the day after this happened like he got pulled over twice in like a half hour you're like what is wrong with you how many times can you get pulled over in one fucking day what's jesus keep it together spaz you just murdered a bunch of people what What the fuck is wrong with you?

And at both times it was speeding and following too close. Yeah. Like dangerous driving. Weird shit, yeah. It's so strange. So he's pulled over. He said at about noon he parked near Subway and waited for Travis Alberding to bring him a computer and shoes. Friend of his.

Travis arrived 20 minutes later and left the pair in Travis's car for somebody else. They intended to meet an individual named Matt, but they couldn't find him. So he said then him and his friend drove to Dexter, which is a town, but the car got stuck on a field access road. Then he said the two of them got into a fight over the car being stuck, I guess, and he decided to walk home alone, Justin did. He said he walked for about six hours before calling his father. Why would you? Okay, you have a phone. You have a way to get out of this. Why would you walk for six hours before

making a phone call? Maybe because in that six hours you covered enough ground for dad not to be super pissed. Six hours, he said. Oh, that's such a long walk. Well, that just means I was out of pocket for six hours and couldn't be found and just out in the middle of nowhere. Nobody could have seen me, so I can't have an alibi, but that's where I was. Wasn't killing anybody. Six hours of walking, yeah.

Six hours, he said. The six hours when all the crime was going on, too. He said his father picked him up. He got home, went to pick up his check at Subway. That's how it went. So now Mata, Folletti, and another officer drive Justin Thurber out to the east of the town so he could show them where he was. Show us where he got stuck and where he walked and all that kind of shit. He couldn't locate where he said the car had gotten stuck.

Of course. Couldn't find it. No. They can never find that. It's really tough. Even though he grew up there and knows it like the back of his hand, he doesn't know where it was. After returning to the police station, Thurber then volunteered to take a polygraph test.

Is that right? Yeah. The interview ended about 3.30 a.m. on January 7th. Mata left the police station. At approximately 3.50 a.m., a sheriff's deputy drove Thurber to the county jail. Okay. On the way, Thurber told the sheriff's deputy that he wanted to talk again to Mata or Ferletti, but he also wanted his relative, Chad Monroe.

Got to have Chad there. Chad was employed with the Cowley County Sheriff's Office, and he wanted him there too. Thought that would help. When Thurber's request was relayed to the Arkansas City Police Department, Lieutenant Jeff Moore called him at 4.40 a.m. at the jail. Thurber said he wanted police to investigate travis who thurber claims stole property from him so stop ratting we got plenty

of shit to investigate right now we got enough to do on our plate we'll get to that tomorrow now they said that uh the guy at the station said he wasn't going to disturb mata the detective about this so instead he tells mata later that sund Sunday morning about Thurber asking to speak to him. When Mata met with Thurber afterwards, Mata asked him what he wanted, and Thurber said that he wanted to talk about Travis. So at 11 a.m. January 7th, Mata and Folletti took Thurber back to the Arkansas City Police Station. They meet with another KBI special agent who provides another Miranda rights form. Good. And Thurber reads it out loud.

He signs it. The form set out, you know, right to remain silent, attorney, all that good shit here. Sign the deal. They recorded the interview, and he describes his whereabouts consistently with the version he previously told them the day before. So all of this goes on. Afterwards, he requests an attorney. He says he doesn't want to talk to the cops anymore, but he doesn't want to talk to Atterbury,

who is one of the KBI agents, but he will talk to Mata more. Seems to like Mata. Mata's his guy. So they get his attorney on the phone. He speaks with his attorney, Justin does. So they get his attorney on the phone. He speaks with his attorney, Justin does. And after that, they just had some small talk, him and Mata, about unrelated to the investigation.

Just a little back and forth, a little powwow, sit down, chit chat. So, wow. Jody's father says, now he finds out that they've arrested this guy and they're suspicious of him. Jody's father said he didn't know Thurber had been repeatedly arrested over the years and charged with various crimes. Didn't know he'd been stalking people. Stalking the Tigarettes. Didn't know shit about that. Had no idea.

No way of knowing. So January 7th, they still have no Jody. No body? No Jody, January 7th. they still have no Jody. Nobody? No Jody, January 7th. No Jody. January 7th, 2007, searchers trained in identifying human activity in rough country looked for Jody near the Ka Wildlife Area. There they found matching impressions of Justin's shoes. Oh.

Yes. They also saw tracks nearby that appeared to be impressions left by flip-flop sandals, which Jody was wearing when she disappeared. As the evening approached, the searchers stopped for the day. On the way home, though, because they set that all off and left somebody to guard it, and they're going to come back and search it thoroughly the next day like forensically on the way home some searchers drove past the cowley county state fishing lake and decided to stop not because they heard the the walleyes were biting or anything like that because they heard thurber was wet when his father picked him up oh like where the fuck it hasn't rained where the fuck would he get wet around here i said literally where would he get wet around here there's only one place i can think of that's where it is so they went there they discovered a muddy tire track and muddy shoe prints near a public restroom then they found mail addressed to jody's parents in a

chemical toilet what they found dance shoes in another toilet and they found one flip flop. Oh, no. So they later retrieve, by the way, they found all around here cut off sweatshorts, a wallet containing Jody's driver's license and social security card. Yep. Her black dance leotard, her tigerette jacket with her name stitched on the front. Oh, boy. A vehicle floor mat and a section of a car seat cushion. Really?

Like the bottom part you sit on. Okay. The sandal matched the impressions found at the Call Wildlife area that they found over there. And searchers spend the next two days searching January 9th. Okay. 2007. They get in a boat, the Arkansas city police,

they get in a boat and they see the car's taillights in the water. He sunk the car. The car sunk. It's her. It's they pull it up. It's her 2003 black Dodge Stratus. So they pull that up. They check and make sure it's her car by the tag. They pull it up. It's her 2003 Black Dodge Stratus. So they pull that up. They check and make sure it's her car by the tag before they pull it up from the lake.

Or are they going to fucking leave it there if it wasn't hers? While you're in there, grab whatever's down there. How's that, guys? Just pull that out. It's probably polluting something. No shit. Inside the car, they found a matching blue flip-flop to the one they found in the woods there. So they thought they might find

her body in the car though and they don't her body's not in there yeah they're like shit so they use sonar equipment they said they found the submerged car within 30 seconds of putting a boat in the water mainly because they didn't need all the sophisticated sonar because they saw the taillights right because it's shallow enough they spent all this time getting all this equipment and they were like hold on i see taillights i think that's it shut it all down never mind the car was resting at the bottom it's eight feet of clear water they said so not real a car and that is not it's gonna be very very obvious yeah so they said the transmission was in drive oh someone just put it in drive and rolled it into the lake. Drove it right in.

Yep. The car apparently had been driven into the lake. Then it turned around as it floated, they said. It must have turned. The doors were closed but unlocked. The windows were up and the sunroof was slightly open. Okay. So it could fill with water.

Before the car was pulled up, the divers took all sorts of photos of it underwater and everything for evidence. They said that they've searched hundreds of times this type of thing. And the one guy from the KBI said he was very impressed by how local police confronted with such a huge crime didn't act like assholes. He's literally said, I was really surprised there was no turf wars. There was no bullshit. There was no, you know, the mayor didn't trample the crime scene like it was great. They clearly wanted help. And they did it right. They actually went by the book on shit and they find out that the flip flops definitely belong to Jody. And so now they need to find her. So they go back to the call wildlife area where they found some of her stuff and they believe if her car is there and some of her shit's over in the other part that's probably where she is it's about 11 miles from her car by the way is that right yeah near the walnut river they find her body in a wood pile she's naked and tossed in a wood pile jimmy it's bad um jimmy and everyone

else out there i should say everyone listening you're not the only member of this listening public here you're not listening public but you're you're listening to she dies her cause of death is strangulation with blunt force trauma being contributing cause of this now what he did to her is he apparently hung out by her house. She was at her house when she got taken. She made it to her house, Jimmy. Think about how crazy that is. She went up to the end of the driveway to get her mail. She got mail out of the mailbox.

And he grabbed her at the mailbox. That's when he somehow got her into the car. Don't know if he talked her into it. Don't know if he acted like he had a gun. Don't know what he did. But somehow, right from in front of her house she was snatched they think wow so yeah right it's always at the street corner that was one of those community box things so it's right around yeah so wow they said that you know once he was close enough he subdued her through either ruse or fear the cop said who knows what he did it's fucking

rough so she suffered beating her she was beaten all over her body beaten strangled um beaten some more and then it gets worse too she raped her it was it was bad um they could tell that the bruises and other injuries mean that by the autopsy she didn't die quick this wasn't simple this was a long prolonged painful process they have all sorts of pictures that they're going to put into court obviously here the the place they went to heavily wooded area near the oklahoma kansas border i think he forced her out of the car at knife point ordered her to walk deep into the woods and uh while in the woods he strangles her rapes her sodomizes her murders her she's bruised from head to toe bruising on her head on her arms um on her torso lower back buttocks and legs jesus all of her is bruised they said she had abrasions this is right this is from the prosecutor later on i'll just do an. They said she had abrasions. This is right. This is from the prosecutor later on. I'll just do an exact quote. Quote, she had abrasions on her back that were consistent

with being drug 30 feet from the place where she was disrobed from to the place where her body lay. What drug her after he was done with her, he just drug her over there and tossed her in a woodpile. Quote, she was struck so hard in the face that it snapped her face back and lacerated an artery in her neck. Holy. I don't even know how that's possible. They say whiplash can

cause death like that. Or at least some sort of internal bleeding. That's crazy. And she was strangled. She was strangled, repeatedly strangled, they say. And she was strangled. She was strangled, repeatedly strangled, they say. Repeatedly strangled of a tightening and relaxing, tightening and relaxing.

He was doing the thing he did with... That's his jam. That's his jam. She was struggling to get away. A man with big hands had a grip on her neck. Not only hands, but ligature consistent with the strap from her leotard. They said at that time, she would struggle and can get a little bit, but she's gasping for air and gasping.

Every time she did that, more oxygen went to her brain and allowed her to live longer. The strangulation took five to 12 minutes. Oh, dear God. That's torture. That's fucking torture. Now, part of that that examination this is again right from the da fuck man part of that examination also included the sexual assault quote i'm going to take you back to the call wildlife area to jody's body she'd been strangled by ligature

manually her artery snapped in the back of her neck she's dying her heart is still beating she's looking up at the gray sky she's in an area that She's dying. Her heart is still beating. She's looking up at the gray sky. She's in an area that she does not know. Her heart's still beating. Defendant spreads her legs, gets between her legs, and gets a large stick. What? Gets a large stick. He grabs it, and he jams it up her anal canal, tearing, bruising, and hemorrhaging her.

What? What is that? This fucking fucking guy i don't understand it her heart is still beating still pumping blood he jams that stick up into her approximately two inches of length but he's not done there he next takes wood debris he takes wood debris and stuffs it in her vaginal cavity why but he's not done yet why he's not done yet. Why? He's not done yet. Quote, in her last breath, before he gathers her clothes, before he heads out of that area, before he gets back in her car and takes it and dumps it in the lake, before he does that, he moves from between her legs up toward her face, and he gets leaves and grinds them up.

He grinds them in his hand, and he takes those leaves and he smashes them in each one of her ears. What? Smashing them. Packs it in there. But he's not done yet. He's not done. They said Jody's suffering is ending.

Her suffering is ending. But the suffering of others is just beginning. What he does, he grabs more leaves, wood debris, and opens Jody's mouth and crams it full of wood debris and leaves what is the deal man that's his last act on the body of jody and then he drags

her 30 feet and tosses her on a fucking pile of wood think about what that looked like to find oh my god that's fucking horror if that girl went through hell that's fucking horror. If that girl went through hell, that's fucking hell. Yeah. That's horrifying. That's horrifying. So the forensic pathologist said to the untrained eye, what looks like one massive bruise along the neck running along the collarbone, he said, but he pointed out to wide crimson lines along the upper part of the neck. He said the reason it looks like it's one bruise is because the pattern's changed. It's crisscrossing the neck. There would have had to have been some movement of the hand or repositioning in order to cause that.

That's why he said he strangled her several times. Yeah, that's crazy. So they said that's the artery in your neck. That's where you feel your pulse because they said he was cutting it off from the carotid artery. He said that the blood must be cut off from the brain continuously for three to five minutes to cause death. The release, the hand repositioning, and the gasps for breath would have prolonged death. And they said also there's a vertebral artery in the neck which runs behind the carotid artery.

That had been injured too. During a blow to the head, it snaps back and it can tear this artery. Unbelievable. He said the blow to the head alone could have been fatal, but they said that she died from strangulation first before that happened. And also the bruisings and bruising

and everything like that. They said also she, they said, was it safe to say she was beat up pretty bad? And the medical examiner said, absolutely. So, wow. Also, a nurse, Jesus, people specializing in sexual assault examination said that she was still alive when the rape occurred as well. Oh, okay. And that is fucking horrific. So, Jodi met an absolutely horrible fuck.

And it's a predict. When we just gave you all of that. Yeah. On that guy. What was that building toward? This. Or worse. Or worse.

Yeah. Was there any other thing that this could have led to based on what we talked about with him? All of those facts. Exactly what he does. Exactly what those people do. And the problem is he didn't really do everything he did was allowed him to slip through the cracks it was there was nothing that could be right pointed to and said he should have been in prison for 10 years for that well what there

wasn't anything that he did that was serious enough yet it's just all the things that pile on top of each other that eventually culminate into shit like this. Yeah. Now, the day they find her body, before it's public that they found her body, the school that she goes to, the school's lunch period, students took up a collection and raised $425 to help feed the law enforcement officers who were working on the disappearance. They're trying to buy them lunch there. But after the police announced the body had been found, half the donations went to a fund for Jodi's family.

The other half was placed in a scholarship fund to honor a high school student who perpetuates her legacy. So it's a dance thing. They said dance was her passion. It was her love. She always wanted other people to feel valued. She was very talented. They hold a memorial for her. Two thousand people show up for this memorial yeah how do you

not even if you've never met her you got to go honor the wow the jesus christ in a town of 12 000 2 000 people show up that's incredible wow neighbors friends family the whole deal they had to do it at an auditorium at the college like where they play basketball because, because there isn't nowhere else big enough to hold it in the whole town. So how do they know he was with her definitely? Well, let's find out some evidence. Number one, cell phones. That's a thing. In 2007, everyone's got cell phones,

and all of the towers say that Jody and he were together. Oh, boy. From a certain time, their phones pinged together. Yep. So the signals trailed down the path of US-166, leading to the Kaw Wildlife Area and Cowley State Fishing Lake, where her car was submerged. In 2007, there's no way he knew that, right?

Probably not. If you're very smart and very into crime stuff, you might know that. But if you were just probably if you were a monkey boy from Kansas and couldn't keep his fucking job at Sub knife, so a holder, with what appeared to be a spot of dry blood on it. They also seize what is described, and this I think is stupid when they do this, described as a picture in his room as a pornographic picture of a woman on a boat with her legs up. So what? They say when they found Jody, her legs were up. So they were like, oh, he was modeling.

No. No, he just threw her on the wood pile. I hate when they find any porn they have and go, he was modeling it toward the porn. Probably not. Let's not make it. There's enough here that you don't have to make it any more than it is. You know what I mean? It is what it is.

It's fucking horrific. Don't make it weirder. So several witnesses will testify that they saw Jody's car that afternoon. One, Carrie Morris, who is Jody's friend, said she noticed Jody sitting in the passenger seat of her own car as the two vehicles

passed each other in Arkansas City shortly afternoon. She didn't know her friend was being taken to be murdered. She just saw her. That was the last time anybody... She testified that the person driving the being taken to be murdered. She just saw her as the last time anybody. She testified that the person driving the car appeared to be a large white male. She called Jody's cell phone right away, but she didn't answer, which made her worry. She was like, she's right.

No, she's right here. Just saw you. So she said that her car appeared to be heading east out of town. So she said that her car appeared to be heading east out of town. Two other women said they saw a car like Jody's vehicle while driving on a dirt road south of Arkansas City around 3 p.m. One testified later that Justin was the driver and identified him in court and everything. Oh, yeah. Cell phone towered and data indicates that Thurber and Jody cell phones were east of Arkansas city that afternoon, like we said, and some of the individuals who Thurber said he was with that day

said they were not with him. All of his alibis fell through. So his father at his initial hearing, they ask his dad, Thurber's dad for a comment and his dad, I'll be honest with you, his family, a lot of times we go, this family is a piece of shit. And, you know, Jesus Christ, they raised this. They seem like nice people who didn't know what to do with this whole thing. They don't seem like terrible people. And again, I mean, the old frog metaphor fits here. Whereas they've been in this water for so long, they don't see it getting hotter and hotter and hotter. If you just look at it on the surface obviously you jump out but uh yeah they've been in it for so long they're boiling themselves to

death well they long ago if they realized it was just easier to kind of yeah keep track of him and kind of then to like you know in a bowling alley yeah it's just easier that if we have the bumpers off it's just going to be gutter ball after fucking gutter ball with this kid we got to put some bumpers up in the you know in terms of we'll take care of them and help them do things and stuff like that so they interview the father and thurber said quote thurber's father said that he has the quote he sends the utmost sympathy to the victim's family and wouldn't comment any further. So the state then. Oh, he feels terrible. Yeah, he absolutely feels terrible.

He picked his son up from a murder. He feels terrible. The state also has DNA evidence connecting Thurber to Jody's car and body. The director of forensic DNA laboratory testified that she ran mitochondrial DNA tests on a hair found in the driver's seat of Jody's car. She said that Thurber and his maternal relatives could not be excluded as donors, although 99.77% of the population could be excluded. Uh-oh. Yeah, that's pretty close. Another one, a KBI forensic biologist, analyzed several DNA samples collected from Jody's

body. They could not exclude Thurber as a possible contributor for a partial mixture DNA profile collected from Jody's right breast. Because the profile only identified one locus, that profile would appear in one in 21 Caucasian males. Gina Pineda, a private DNA testing company employee, said she tested YSTR analysis on several samples. Results from the right breast swab yielded a very weak partial profile with two markers.

She testified that Thurber could not be excluded as a contributor but said one in four males could have the same two markers. four males could have the same two markers. Another private DNA testing company said she performed DNA samples on, or testing on samples collected from Jodi's right bicep and right rib cage, and Thurber could not be excluded as a donor there either. She said that combined samples from the right hand of Jodi's right hand and fingernail clippings, Thurber could not be excluded as a contributor, but 99% of the population could be excluded. Okay.

So every piece of DNA they have, he can't be excluded from any of them, and all of them are varying degrees of closeness, but 99.77, 99, there's a lot of... That's enough. Yeah. Also, footwear impressions as well. They took photographs and casts of footwear impressions at the wildlife area. They did casting and everything. They did this the real the real fucking shit. They did a real murder

investigation here. They were consistent with those made by Thurber shoes and the flip flop. So they had them both next to each other which made it shoes aren't an exact science. Right. But when you put two together, then it becomes way more exact when they were next to each other.

It's different. Each piece is eyebrow raising, but you land on her shoes and his shoes, his phone and her phone. His DNA is close, insanely close on several of these things. And by the way, they've never met each other. Right. So they don't – it's not like, oh, we were hanging out. insanely close on several of these things and by the way they've never met each other right they don't it's not like oh we were hanging out maybe it's what they he according to him he doesn't know her never met her he says told the cops he's never been in her car doesn't know shit about her

so it's not good it's not great um justin's attorney now uh this guy whose job is really difficult oh boy he said quote people need to keep in mind that he is innocent until proven guilty. That's why we're litigating this. He said that he worries about a tendency to rush to judgment before we even go

into the courtroom. He said it's already a tragedy across the board. So right away before trial, the state moves for an admissibility determination for the recorded statement that he made because of the different Miranda times here.

The state argued that Thurber reinitiated contact with law enforcement when he said he wanted to talk to Mata and they should be ruled admissible. The court determined that Thurber reinitiated contact. So when he reinitiated contact, then that's on him at that point. contact. So when he reinitiated contact, then that's on him at that point. They also said that Thurber was familiar with the criminal justice system, had previously been advised of his rights, interrupted the one cop when those rights were being explained to express his full understanding of them and his knowing of them word for word because he wants to be dog the bounty hunter. And he wants to show you that he knows as much or more than you. Absolutely. I'm part of this too

so they judged those statements as admissible yeah and um they said to uh for the attack here this is what the uh um this is what the prosecutor said he said judge in jody's case she was held in that car for at least four to five hours before her death there was sexual activity based on the evidence at the crime scene and jody resisted. She resisted based on the injuries to her hand and to her head. The defendant responded to this resistance by driving her to a secluded site, hitting Jody, carrying her to the murder site, sexually molesting her at the site, and slowly strangling her to the point of death. There is evidence that he may have repeatedly strangled her. They said the more a woman resisted, the more aggressive or aroused he became.

So while this is going on, before this goes to trial, because it's going to be about a year and a half before it gets to trial, 2008, Kansas, the legislature puts out a new anti-stalking law. Oh, good. Yeah, because they said police didn't learn of the many stalking allegations against Thurber until after Jody had disappeared. They put it all together. They said based on even her parents say, Jody's parents say the police were not negligent

in their handling of Thurber. They said it's not her fault. It's not their fault. It's the law. There's nothing they could do under the law. All they can do is walk a chick in the subway. They can't. It's crazy. There's nothing they could do under the law. All they could do is walk a chick in the subway. They can't.

It's crazy. So the family says they strongly support a bill, a pending bill, aimed at making stalking easier to prosecute. Current law at the time before this law comes into effect requires authorities to show a credible threat, which is very vague and unenforceable, they say. So the proposed legislation would prohibit certain kinds of conduct that, quote, a reasonable person would find threatening. Yeah. So there you go. The father here, her father, Jody's father, testifies at the hearings for all of this type of shit. And the Sean Wallace, the police chief, said, although tougher laws could result in a higher criminal justice expense with more people going to jail, it's a small cost compared to removing fear from a victim's life and preventing loss of life.

Turns out the law passes and it is called Jody's Law. Of course it is. You always want something named after you except for a law. Except for a law that they had to make because you disappeared. You don't want to be Amber. You don't want to be Jody. You don't want to be any of those fucking people. Amber and Jody have it bad.

None of those people. So they said it was one of the fastest laws to ever go through the state of Kansas. It was like they wrote it. The next day they were like, how fast can we do this? There was smoke coming off that shit. Let's go. So it's why not? What are we doing here? So in 2009 coming off that shit. Let's go. So it's why not? What are we doing here?

So in 2009, the I just pictured blazing saddles. We got to keep our phony baloney jobs here. Harumph, harumph, harumph. So for the trial, the county has never had a capital murder trial before. Is that right? Yeah, because they're saying that if convicted, they're going for the death penalty on this one. This is extra bad. This is the definition of heinous and cruel and all that other shit this is you know what i didn't hear in there at all and i'm sure it happened but like

actually just normal sex penetration that that didn't think he did yeah he had to have you don't go you don't go straight to sticks and stones you know no no they think they think he did and that's i think the dna they're talking about yeah yeah i think the dna they're talking about is on her oh okay like i think that was part of that and then he just destroyed the body in horrific ways jesus just hurt her just wanted to hurt her and damage her and fucking yeah disgusting fucking disgusting this is the so they've this county's never had a capital murder trial before. And so it's the police chief said, two of my children went to school with Jody. It affected us all deeply. And they talk about it.

They say the chief told his communications officer who took his radio and phone calls as police searched for Jody. She said when she sat through the trial, it gave her lots of closure. She said it felt like it helped to heal the hurt because she could see the results of all of our work. We made a dent in evil. So during the opening statement, that is when the prosecutor says, quote, first thing, defendant could not be excluded as contributor of any of that DNA on Jody's right hand. Under the testing they do, they have 16 markers. The DNA on Jody's right hand, 16 markers matched his DNA. They said, The body was taken from the wildlife area to Wichita for an autopsy.

He talked about the doctor who did the autopsy. She was bruised from head to toe on her arms, her torso, lower back, buttocks, legs, bruised from head to toe. She had abrasions. She was struck in the face. That's when he gives the whole thing of the sexual assault, everything that happens. I'm definitely not going to read that again. So later the prosecutor said about it,

why was the passenger side seat pulled out? The seat was yanked out of the car. What did Alexis say? Alexis said he was stimulated by resistance. You got to ask yourself why he would cut that passenger seat out. Because he got too stimulated. He got stimulated and it caused him to ejaculate. That's what they're saying.

That's what the prosecutors are saying. On the seat? Yeah, he just busted on the seat there. So that's why he took the seat out and threw it so in an argument um the prosecutor said judge the defendant was a ticking time bomb and he had the time opportunity and he got jody jody resisted and jody paid the price with her life because the other girls that froze up and just let him like that you know the girl who got yanked in his car four times and everything when he resisted that's when he got into it that's That's what he's waiting for them to do so he can get excited.

So in defense, Ron Evans is the defense attorney here. He said to the jurors, don't expect lengthy cross-examinations here. I couldn't possibly. Everything I ask, honestly, is going to make my client look worse. So only can get worse. He said, these trials are like a long, painful trip.

He said his remarks, his opening remarks, the defense. Okay. They're barely going to put on a defense of like questioning witnesses. So the opening and the closing have to be kind of your case of what you're stating of what he gives a three minute opening statement. Oh God. He said, we will get to the point we won't belabor this okay i guess not jesus we

won't do our work i didn't write anything down y'all have a good one i tried real hard and it just got harder yeah he's like the guy they had before they called in vinnie for my cousin vinnie it's like it's a three hour. Thank you very much. And he sat down. What happened to all the stuff we talked about? I don't know. This is hard. This is hard. He said his defense attorney

said that crimes like this people look to hold the responsible party make sure they're accountable. And he pointed to his client and said if you hold him accountable we do ask that you spare his life. This in the opening in the opening please don't kill him yeah during the trial prosecutors showed photographs of jody's uh what they called quote ravaged nude body as an illustration of her violent death her father said he looked at thurber while the jury looked at the photos he

wouldn't look at the photos he said the father said quote i was thinking i can't look at the pictures so all i could do was look at him and watch his reaction he said i didn't want those pictures in my mind i don't want that to be my last image of joe oh yeah yeah i couldn't who the fuck wants to look at that that's horrible now while Now, while this is going on, you'd think, gee, he's pretty screwed. He must be chastened. Like, he must just sit there with his head down in jail going, Jesus Christ, I'm a scumbag. I fucked up. Yeah.

He must realize now that we, because for all of us, we found him out. So it's like, oh, the jack's out of the box. Right. You know, hey, it's all good. He popped out. We all know what he looks like and everything's fine. But to him, his brain is still his brain. It still works like his brain.

He thinks he can still get out? Not thinks he can still get out. He's still trying to pick chicks up from jail. What? He wrote a letter to, this is fucking crazy. He wrote a letter to one of Jody's best friends from jail. Why? Named Katie Bevilacqua.

She said before she even opened the letter, she started crying and shaking, saying, whoever wrote this, these are the same hands that killed my friend. Yeah. In the letter, Jesus Christ,

man, he was coming on to her in the letter. Wow. Yeah, he was coming on to her. They didn't allow her to read the letter in court, but the letter, they summarized it and said that it was postmarked October 22nd from the jail,

calling her the most beautiful finalist in the Queen Alala. She's in the contest of the thing. She's the most beautiful finalist in the Queen Alala contest, part of the community fall celebration. He stated he was looking for a friend and he told her that their friendship could be the best of her life. He just picked out one of her friends he thought was hot and wrote her a fucking letter. Gross. That's crazy. That's crazy. They said that this isn't stalking, though, because he could read about Bevilacqua and see pictures of her because he had a subscription to the Arkansas City Traveler newspaper while in jail.

So he knew about her and saw her picture and was like, I'm going to write her a letter. She looks hot. Wow. That is crazy. They said that she, by the way, Bevilacqua had had been a dance team member when Thurber sent the letter to. So it was one of Jody's teammates here. So the prosecutor, the defense attorney doesn't want that to be allowed. They're like, that's not a prior act. No, it's a current act. It's worse than a prior act. Yeah. So and they said not only that, it also shows that he'd write a letter to a woman he doesn't even know and who definitely wouldn't like him.

The letter helps demonstrate that Thurber's still obsessed with attractive young women, even when sitting in jail charged with capital murder. And, yeah, quote, it's not relevant. It's not a prior act is what his lawyer said. Yikes. So the jurors hear all the DNA evidence here. They hear everything. They hear about this lab, went to this lab, went to this lab, finger things and clippings and everything like that. The one that was the most trying was the most damaging to him was only 0.15% of the population could have the same profile as one of the hairs found in the car.

Oh, boy. That's not good. That's very precise. of the population could have the same profile as one of the hairs found in the car oh boy that's not good that's very precise so not looking good there for him uh of the materials taken from jody's right hand the land the lab isolated a dna profile of a y chromosome that matched him they said they could match him with 99.99% certainty on this other one, too. So that's a lot. They said that's about as good as it gets for DNA, right? And they said, yes, it is. So they got better samples and worked them out.

Just in the two years since the murder, DNA technology has gotten better and they're able to intervene so much in the last 15 years. So in closing arguments here, wow. The prosecutor says, I want to bring up something to all of you, to the jury, he says this. Those two men right here, the defense attorneys and Mr. Thurber, they don't have a thing to do. You're looking right here at a man that has to do something in this case, okay? Meaning himself, me. They have no burden at all i have the burden okay i have the burden i'm not saying they aren't going to do something but they don't have to do a thing principle of law is that you can't shift the burden onto the defense i have the burden you have to say when you go back to that jury room you have to say did i prove the case meaning me

not them so lays it out i think he's so confident with all this evidence he's like listen really give him a fair shake really look it over i want you to look over that evidence stop look over it again he'll be even guiltier the second time i'm cool that i've brought you totally fine with that so the verdict here by the way he's charged with kidnapping rape yeah uh assault murder you name it uh they find him guilty of all charges oh boy on this here and uh the the sister of jody jennifer she said yeah this is closure but she wants to see him put to death she says quote he watched my sister die so i want to watch him die i know that sounds, but that's the way I feel. That's an emotional feeling.

She and Jody were the close ones. They were really close. Yeah. Constantly in contact. It's the closest. So the day before sentencing is set to happen, the day before Thurber files a motion to determine whether he is intellectually disabled or not. Oh, for heaven's sake. The district court considered that motion at the sentencing hearing.

The defense relied on mitigation evidence, which claims established Thurber's, quote, low mental functioning. The state challenged the request as untimely, saying this isn't the place to bring that shit up, basically. It argued that the record failed to demonstrate thurber was intellectually disabled the court overlooked the procedural deficiency and denied the motion on its merits so didn't say you filed it too late or at the wrong time they said he's kind of plenty competent they said that there was insufficient evidence to believe that thurber was intellectually disabled they said this is the

defense here i think oh yeah quote only argument, Your Honor, is there was some evidence presented throughout the trial in the second stage regarding his low mental functioning. There is evidence, I believe, I think I presented testing showing he tests somewhere in the 70s as far as IQ. We think that makes it such so that the court should take that issue up now at this point in time. Those were his exact words. He just word salad came out at the end. So they said, statute says we may make that request after he's been convicted. We think this would be the appropriate time for the court to do this. What the fuck, basically.

So the state said, I want to make it clear I do not say Thurber. Oh, my goodness, God. Okay, the state, this is what Thurber's therapist testified. Quote, they emphasized Barnett had testified, quote, I want to make it clear I do not say Thurber is mentally retarded. He says that he is not diagnosed as mentally retarded under the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition, he says, DSM-IV. He says they have defenses here. One, the prosecution said, assessed Thurber as smart, capable of completing college.

He went to two years of college and graduated from high school. He's not deficient. No, no. He's not. And having an average IQ, which did not reflect a mental retardation diagnosis. Now, Thurber's high school transcript showed him graduating high school with a 2.5 grade point average, which is... He's smarter than me.

Average. That's exactly average is what that is. And that's better grades than I fucking got. Yeah. My grades would help me if I'm ever in court. They'd go, wow. Wow, you a dipshit wow he must be fucking deficient look at these grades jesus christ how'd he fail jim how the fuck did that happen

you don't show up is how you can fail jim by the way your honor my client uh graduated with a 1.1 average your honor my client has a ged so that would be me. So they said his college transcripts showing he completed 64 credit hours with a 2.1 GPA. Yeah. He's doing it. They said his failure to argue he was substantially impaired from appreciating the criminality of his conduct or from conforming to the conduct required. Yeah. He can't. Dude, you can't say I'm so stupid. I didn't know that this was bad.

I didn't know you can't do that. Yeah, you knew you couldn't do that. They said he communicated effectively with law enforcement while in custody. He's written letters demonstrating his fucking communication ability. Can read and write just fine. And everything is fine. They said, this is a, quote, a psychiatric evaluation performed by Dr. Wallace on January 21st, 2004, which that court report was admitted into evidence. It stated, meaning Mr. Thurber appears to be a smart individual capable of completing college as well as obtaining employment that would sustain his financial needs. Some report further stated if the defendant had a 2.65 GPA in high school, that's not consistent with the transcript.

Apparently, that must have been the defendant self-reporting his GPA. I'm not sure why there's that discrepancy. The report went on to say that Mr. Thurber definitely did not show any psychiatric retardation. Francis Browning's admission evaluation dated June 9, 2004, said his IQ is estimated to be within the average range. So then says, quote, I want to make it clear. This is the doctor on the stand. I want to make it clear. I do not say he's mentally retarded.

So he's not. There you go. He's fine. So they say that that would be a whole other thing, though, if he was, obviously. Sure. They said, yeah, 64 credit hours held jobs multiple jobs did part-time work communicated socializes with people hangs out with old folks knows how bingo works he's fine yeah he can manage bingo yeah so in the penalty phase the state relies

on its evidence to prove that the crime was committed in an especially heinous atrocious or cruel manner which jesus you can't really argue that. The defense called the psychologist Robert Barnett, who met with him multiple times, conducted an evaluation, and reviewed his medical records. Other defense witnesses testified Thurber was bullied as a child. Thurber's immediate family testified that they would continue to have a relationship with him even if it was sentenced to life in prison. So he'll have a life. The state's rebuttal witness said that he saw Thurber at the Arkansas VFW the day after Jody's disappearance and described him as happy and easygoing.

Holy shit. A cold motherfucker is what that means. Yeah. yeah so then Cindy gets up and talks about her daughter here Jody and says as a child Jody hardly ever cried as a teen she was never grounded she was always early she hated to be late

she was every other girl's best friend she was beautiful inside and out and your selfish act destroyed all of that you sir may fuck off death penalty oh boy yeah they banged him good on that one he if anybody this is the fucking definition of people who you go well i mean if they're doing that that's a different story even you know so after sentencing the prosecutor said he was pleased that there's a degree of finality to the case, knowing that there's going to be shitloads of appeals to.

He also nodded. He nodded his head toward the law enforcement officers and everything like that because they were all hanging out. A lot of the law enforcement watched the sentencing. The prosecutor said some people might think it wasn't hard to put this case together, but it was hard and it took a lot of hard, excellent work to put all the evidence together. And, um, he said a lot of good people did a lot of good work and all that sort of thing.

Thurber, as he leaves after being sentenced to death here, he fucking, I, he, I fucks Wallace, the chief of police. He stares down Wallace,

the chief of police glaring at him. He said that it was really weird he said everybody kind of showed hostility showed some hostility staring at him right and he's the wallace the chief goes i don't know why he does that but every time he sees me he does it i don't know why i'm a nice guy i don't know why he's mad at me i'm a nice guy he said what the fuck you're staring at me for i'm not a big fan of me. That's weird. Hates my guts. Strange. Weird. So I'm a nice guy. Thurber's parents politely declined to talk to the press.

They said in the newspaper, quote, they've been by all accounts decent as everybody else in town. People said they did their best raising their kids and have struggled like everyone else to comprehend the magnitude of what their son did yeah that seems fair 2010 he writes a letter to the newspaper oh dear god this is gonna be great in his letter he claims quote hidden evidence will set him free handwritten oh it's somewhere he says the dna evidence and the credibility of witnesses and lack of expert witnesses called by his defense team because there wasn't enough money to pay for him means that he's innocent he said quote or the prosecutor said this is just a pathetic attempt by mr thurber to remain relevant to the people of cowley county he's a control freak he wants to still control people and the community and he has no control yeah the ego of this guy is out of control

fuck yeah absolutely they said uh the father brian jody's father said that thurber had been writing letters to people in the area and he said too he's just seeking attention and the father said quote we don't want to feed him what he wants let's just put him in his little box and move on he knows he's guilty yeah yeah fuck that guy okay. Cage. So, yeah, cage, box, whatever. So he appeals. Jody's family's there, obviously, and there could be a lot of appeals. Jody's mother said,

this is the first of many. We could have as many as six or seven more, which could be one per year. So we've got a long year ahead of us. Fucking torture. Yeah. Jody's father said his defense is going to try to bring up anything they

can in the trial that was wrong well that's what that's their job the defense so i mean that's fine don't blame it on them he said we're just up there to see what's going to happen and it's not even going to and uh he's not even going to be there so that's good i don't really want to see him so he's not going to be at this particular hearing, apparently. Not going to be at the hearing for some reason. So he said that she was a very loving and caring girl. She didn't know a stranger. She helped anyone and everybody.

She was just a doll to be around and fun to be around. I bet he said, can you help me? You think so? I bet he said, did you see a little white dog? It's about cat 20 20 pounds it's it would have been you know running probably on the side of the road i can't i've been the little guy otherwise otherwise it's just straight fear right my little sister is but she resisted out there she'd resist for sure in front of her house it had to have been under some roof has to have been and then once they get in car, it's too fucking late at that point.

So he, by the way, in his appeal, one of the things he talks about is that the judge refused to change a venue. Oh? They shouldn't have done that. They should have changed venues. He argued that prejudicial pretrial publicity. Wow. Prejudicial pretrial publicity permeated the community. That's four straight Ps.

Giving rise to the presumption of prejudice. Jesus, with the Ps. I'm glad he went with community and not public. Fuck me, yeah. That would have been... God damn it. The public pool. Public pool. Participants. The defense said, they called a

professor who conducted a defense commission venue study here. They got responses from 400 Cowley County residents testifying that 92% of the respondents were highly aware of the case and less than 1% failed to recall it at all. Yeah, you gotta move it.

They concluded too that of those who were aware of it, many had a relatively high involvement, meaning they were paying attention to it. They said 72% of respondents said they discussed the case with others and nearly 90 percent said they felt, quote, very angry about this crime taking place in their community. Move the fucking trial. Move the trial. But they don't. On cross-examination, the prosecutor challenged the survey methodology, including the selection criteria for survey respondents and how certain questions were framed so they said no it stays here they said

the crimes committed shocked the surrounding communities and the local media reflected this outrage but the court concluded these news accounts were factual rather than inflammatory they weren't saying he was a terrible guy there There really wasn't, too. It was all what a great person Jody was. Yeah. And how we're scared and all that kind of shit. All the stuff about Justin really didn't come out until right before the trial itself. Like after juries were being chosen and while trial stuff was going on. Because that's when they were doing preliminary hearings and getting witnesses saying he stalked them and all that kind of shit.

Because that's when they were doing preliminary hearings and getting witnesses saying he stalked them and all that kind of shit. So they said the Supreme Court rules in 2017 to make it harder to execute mentally handicapped people. Okay. That's fine. Because there was a lot of states that were like, hey, he's fine. He's all right. Remember the old David Cross joke? Oh, yeah. Fuck, seatbelt for my arms.

What am I doing? That's what was going on. Seatbelt for my arms what am i doing that's what was going on seat belt for my arms so the uh the kansas court here they take it there they uphold the kansas supreme court upholds the murder conviction but sends the case back down to the lower court for the death penalty thing to see if that's still okay okay okay. Okay. An attorney for Thurber told the state Supreme Court that Thurber's IQ had been estimated

in the 70s or 80s. Well, 80s is kind of average at that point. And that he read at a sixth grade level in college and that his parents testified that he would have had trouble living on his own. Well, he did live on his own and apparently sixth grade is all you needed to get 64 credit hours, which is 64 more than I have.

So the judge's decision, they came and said they kicked it down to the lowest court back again, or the lower court again, a district court or something. So the Supreme Court had ruled it's unconstitutional to execute defendants with even mild developmental disabilities, which we shouldn't be executing people with problems. We really shouldn't. You got to really know what you're doing for an execution here. So in a 5-2 ruling, the Kansas Supreme Court also declared unconstitutional a piece of the state's capital punishment law that deals with how courts determine whether defendants are developmentally disabled, finding it too restrictive in light of the U.S. Supreme Court decisions in recent years. So they went through and these justices went through and fixed what they were doing to align with what the actual law is now.

Their laws before were not in line with what the Supreme Court standards were. So this will lead to them being in a world of shit, these justices who did this, by the way. What do you think? People went, well, that's logical. Yeah, that seems right. Fuck no. They said they want to help murderers.

That's all they care about. That's what people said. People, of course, had to take it to hair on fire level immediately with this shit. Because it's an emotional thing here, obviously. So anyway, the family's pissed off they said they feel frustration as feelings come to the surface again they said the fact that they want to look at his mental ability to get his again is pretty upsetting because this is something we've already gone through and it was determined that he was not mentally handicapped

previously so i don't understand why we have to do it again. Some frustration, but we have kind of learned to live with that. Then the one relative said, so I don't believe that Thurber is mentally incapable of being executed, and at the end of the day, evil is still evil. They said, it's the most unbelievable, horrible thing that could ever happen to a person, and it happened to my daughter, is what Brian says. He goes on to say he tortured

jody for hours it was they said it's hours this went on for so he was sentenced to death and um problem is in this in kansas they have not executed anyone since 1965 is that right yeah there's only 10 people on on death row at this point in 2010 or so when he's doing these appeals. And they haven't executed anyone since 65. And it's, you know, that's a long fucking time. They hanged two men in 65. So there's a group called Kansans for Justice, which is what the Sanderholm family joins up for. They join up with them.

And they said, this is Brian quote, well, the death penalty in Kansas doesn't work. That's the problem. And a lot of it is because their laws weren't in line with national standards too. So then that,

that that's the problem is their laws weren't up to date. And then when you make the laws up to date, people get angry, retroactive. Yeah. Then people get angry because they go, Oh, you're helping murderers,

but you're just making the law what the law has to be. And it's not their fault. This is their fucking daughter's debt. I totally get it. They want this guy to get killed. I understand. But it's crazy. So they said the appeals process, it's notoriously slow and a state Supreme Court is notoriously or consistently ruled in favor of defendants.

One example is convicted serial killer John Edward Robinson. He struck a deal with prosecutors in Missouri to avoid the death penalty, but for the murders in Kansas, he was willing to risk it. That reason is because since 76, Missouri has executed 87 inmates and Kansas has executed none. And none of that matters, though. You can only kill them once. So they said these cases drag out for a long period

of time. Some of the early cases after the legislature reinstituted the death penalty in 94 are particularly long. That's why, too, they didn't have it again until 94. So they said the Kansas Supreme Court's also overturned a number of death sentences, including the Carr brothers, who were convicted of a crime spree that ended with four counts of capital murder. It was a case that went all the way to the nation's highest court. And in an eight to one ruling, the Supreme Court reinstated death penalties for the Carr brothers with a scathing criticism of the Kansas Supreme Court. They said the Kansas Supreme Court time and again invalidates death sentences because

it says the federal constitution requires it. Turning a blind eye would enable state courts to become the unpopular death sentence reprieve of the most horrible criminals upon the federal Constitution when, in fact, it's their own doing. Makes sense. Makes sense. Sanderholm, the dad, says, I'm all for the death penalty. I believe it should be, and I believe it's our responsibility since it's our law to execute him and go on or change the law. Right. That's fair.

Yeah. So they said, Cindy, the mom says he didn't let Jody appeal for her life. He killed her and that was all. Great point. That's the, yeah, but that's the family. That's fine. But like I said, that's, it's, you know, that's what you want for your family and what's best for us.

This is all shit that can be argued here. So family here, they join efforts to try to oust justices from the Kansas Supreme Court who are doing this. They're going hard now. They're going hard. A retired U.S. magistrate named Karen Humphreys, who is a Cedric County District Court judge, said that, quote, they've done their job. They deserve our respect and support. They don't base their decisions based on popular opinion. They base them on facts and the law and the Constitution. As long as they're doing that, you can't be mad at them because they're not ruling in

your favor. But some people get mad that they're not getting exactly how they want things to be. And that happens. So that's what courts are for. And then you're going to fight it out in court that's fine they said by the way how death row inmates spend their time here this is what they have that they have them in ad seg administrative segregation really which is solitary basically it's where you put people who have caused problems they've made a mess in their cell yep it's used for other prisoners as a disciplinary measure. For them, it's solitary confinement, 23 hours a day, one hour a day they're allowed out of their cells for exercise or to take a shower.

Or, not and. Or, not and. No. Or, when they are out of their cells for exercise, the exercise is done alone in a small wire-enclosed outdoor space. One of those little deals. done alone in a small wire enclosed outdoor space one of those little deals for meetings with their families or lawyers death sentence prisoners are behind glass and tightly shackled the death sentence prisoners are kept separate from each other as well until september of 2001 they could converse with each other from their cells but that's no longer possible they closed that for them too uh in 2020 the uh kansas supreme court issued an opinion declaring a state law adopted

in 2020 uh allowing a man allowed a man appealing his death sentence to seek appointment by cowley county district court of an attorney to assist with post-conviction dna testing so there's a law that means that you could there's a special avenue you can go for post-conviction DNA testing for these cases. And he's using this to further this whole deal. So he's trying to get that, even though the DNA says it's him. He's trying to get it to say it's not him. So as of 2023, still dragging on with legal proceedings. Are you kidding?

Death penalty tentatively in place still. He's on death row wow i mean his life sucks we just described it so i mean it's not like he's probably wanting it at this point so still dragging on he's in eldorado prison right now and uh apparently a bad play and he looks terrible the picture of him he looks like he lost 65 pounds he looks he looks like a fucking dead monkey i want to see it so yeah he looks like the first he's the first aids monkey is what it looks like and it's it's almost over for him he's dying so there he goes everybody that is kansas holy shit that is some wild stuff there

what a place what a place what a wild case and an asshole, honestly. What a complete piece of shit. And we feel sorry for Jody's family, man. That really sucks. That really does. That girl did not deserve that at all. No. Or anything like it. None of those people deserve that shit.

That's crazy. If you know any kids that are doing shit like that, tell the cops. Get them documented. Something. Yeah, because this guy, holy shit, when you added it up into one big mosaic, it was scary looking. Yeah. You could put all the mosaic together and go, oh, I see a picture. Hardcore.

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That is where you get all of your bonus materials. Anybody $5 or above, you get a huge back catalog to go through a bonus episode. It's like 200 of them. And then new ones every other week. Two new ones, as a matter of fact. One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get access to it all no matter what. And this week is no different. What you're going to get this week is for crime and sports, we're town murder, and you get access to it all, no matter what. And this week is no different. What you're going to get this week is, for crime and sports,

we're going to talk about something real weird, in-ring deaths in boxing. Yeah. You know, any kind of combat sport in ring. Might as well go to on-field, I guess, because we'll go to baseball if you got hit in the head, or football if your neck got broken, whatever. However you died.

They stop it on purpose so that it doesn't happen however you died if it was in front of a crowd of ticket buying people we're going to talk about it we'll get in there then for small town murder we're going to talk about one of the most interesting documentaries i've ever seen it is called american hollow yeah it's from like 1999 it's takes place in mudlick k Kentucky. And it makes you you watch this. Then if you turned on the Wild and Wonderful Whites afterwards, you'd be like, oh, is this Prince Charles coronation? Is he the king now? Oh, no, this is the whites because compared to them, that's what the right whites look like. And a murder comes from this. That's very predictable. We get to see a man doing things where you go, oh, he's going to kill somebody.

And then he does. It's fucking amazing. American Hollow, check it out. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And, of course, you get your shout-out because we fucking appreciate you, and we want to say your goddamn name. Jimmy wants to mispronounce your name with all that he has. Jimmy, hit me with that list

right goddamn now. This week's executive producer is Alexandra Chico, and she's in the u.s uh but her friend from from australia told her about the shows so so we reached somebody in australia who reached back to the states who reached all the way back alexandra listening thank you well fuck we took the back door but thank you it's good to be here uh christine lee kathleen winick winick maybe uh ali grimes uh in the memory of, because Jordan donated, Jordan Bennett donated, to say Allie Grimes' name one more again.

So thank you, Jordan. That was nice. Thank you. Douglas Samaric, I believe. Marilyn Branfast, I think. I'm not sure. Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. Thank you so much.

It's above and beyond. You don't have to do it. Holy fuck. We really appreciate it. You're amazing. Other producers this week are Captain Frank Ferrio and the guys in the precinct,

Rabbi Shmulevich's favorite wrestler, Abdullah the Butcher, Baby Stinky from Abbott and Costello, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Michelle and Canada's husband, Eddie passed away. Sorry, Michelle. That's terrible.

Sorry about that. That's awful. I hope you heal and get beyond it. Jesus. Janice Hill, Amanda Spooner, Rodney Lloyd, Travis Marshall, Sage Grogan, graduated kindergarten. Congratulations, Sage. Hang in there. Hey, good for you.

It's going to get harder. Jessica Bautista. Yeah, several. 18 probably. Kelly McGregor. Lindsay Turner. Ted Colby. Ann Brannan.

Emily Pierce. Charles Dohler, Carl Gilmore, Kerry Gunnarsson, Neil Ayers, Lindsey Dishbean, I believe, Rooney Harrington, Shake and Bake, 907, Ryan Waszaszewski, I don't know. Yeah. Kelly, no, Kelly. Something Polish. Yeah, something like that. Kellen Englert. Name. Kelly. No, Kelly. Something Polish. Yeah, something like that. Kellen Engler.

Oh, yeah. Name of the deceased, something Polish. This show brought to you by the letter E. Alyssa, Alyssa, Alyssa Kaler, caller maybe. Brad Harms, Amanda Bowie, Marissa Lair, or Larry maybe. Juliet from Lisbon, Juliet from Lisbon. Hey, Lisbon, cool. Joseph Fontenot. Porto. That's French. Carmen Holden, maybe. be juliet from lisbon juliet from lisbon uh joseph no port French uh our carmen holden maybe

uh ronda mackie bonnie winton missy mcnally paul kitcher bra kitch bra kitcher yeah hmm boy ali healy uh a lot ali maybe uh it's probably ali it be Ali. I don't know. Zachary Edward Klima. Klima. Julie Precaza. Tammy McClintock. Shannon Lane. Sherry Griglia. Griglia? Griglia. Yep.

Joanna D'Onofrio. I can't remember those. Maybe Vincent's wife, Joanna. Oh, thank you. Thank you to the D'Onofrio family. Samantha with no last name. Georgina Albanese. Albanese.

Ashley Pino. Pino. It's probably just Pino. family samantha with no last name georgina albanese albaness uh ashley pino pino it's probably just pino uh taylor hines leila ostad brandon sch how do you pronounce that shush shh brandon chuh uh eric cavalli sch wow that's it get a vowel yeah violon fast sage i saw you one uh corinne cor. Corinne P., Aaron Morgan, Eric Cavalli. I said that. Richard Reynolds II, Cameron Holgren, Holmgren. Heather Powell, Rob Ford, Jen Blevins, Matt Pacheco, Ray Biggs, Stephen. Nope, that's just Steve Locklear.

Heather Watkins, Emma DeLong, Crystal Kane from Salty Hive Home and Body. I don't know where that is. Sarah Firth, Maggie Tisch, Tyler Dingy, Bryn Wiley, Christian with no last name. What is it? Yeah, the Dingster. The Dingster. McGinnis McGinnis, Christian with no last name. James Dragon, Dragon, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan,

Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Morgan, Deanna Brown, Laurie Miller, Charles Lawrence, Tyler Ferguson, Gail with no last name. Amanda Brown, Gabriel Sabibi, Khabibi, Caitlin Pope, Kevin McKee, Nicole Briggs, Greg Rounds, Nick Powell, Kelly Dodd, Melinda Stafford, Rosalyn Phillips, Rosalyn maybe, Zachary Leisure, Nicole McVeigh, Christine Charles, Liz jeff house housing howenstein uh amber e chris with no last name kimberly rush cory pasichik uh katie kenny uh shelly morrison page daniel

oh boy caitlin garnica garnica gabrielle pizor dana with no last name, Ashton Palmer DeGeorge, Cassidy Myla, Mila maybe, Annie DeVito, Jordan Volrath, Kelly Collins, Mr. Jonathan Hines, Wade Carpenter, Lindsay Goss, Mickey Farrell, Lillian Morphew. What? Ragnar Stigenberg. What? Oh. Steenbjord. Wow. That's a name right there.

Quite the handle, sir. All right. Brittany Anderson, Emily Stackhouse, Sierra Williams. Yeah, you're getting easier. Thank you, Brittany. Ava Polvino, Shannon, Maria Kidd, Larissa Hunter, Dustin Sledge, A. Georgia, Dan James, Brian Rice, I think, Mathis, Matthias, Campman, Cody Polk, Polk. Yeah, like the president.

Jasmine Fulton, Joe Dennis. Kimberly Lawson. Joshua DeHoff. Illegal feet pick dealer. Oh, boy. Anne E. Caitlin Z. Lauren. Nope, that's Laura.

Weddington. Weddington. Akiva Yasani. Yasnia. What? Yasni. Akiva Yasni. Eric Anderson.

Manuela. Manuela Mathis. Kelly Hay. Ho. Ha. Her. Oh, boy. Hoff. I don't know. A-E-I. O-U. Eric Anderson, Manuela, Manuela Mathis, Kelly Hay, Courtney Danielle, Chelsea Mott, Barry Lawson, Allison DeOrlando, Shanna Willett, Kimberly Gammon, Crystalckerman uh amy corcoran uh tara daner hunter with no last name matt d weiner okay uh jordan raymond the guy who made mad men maybe jesse guy who created madman is it maybe it is he maybe likes this jesse old conchetta brown and all of our patrons you guys guys are fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody.

We appreciate you more than you could ever fathom. Thank you so much for everything. Thanks for buying tickets and merch and listening to us. Thanks for telling your friends. Thanks for doing anything you do for us. If you speak kindly of us, God damn it, we appreciate it. So if you want to follow us or find us on social media, real easy to do that. Just go to shutupandgivememurder.com

Click on the link menu and you can find us in there. And until... Keep coming back, seeing us. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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